GP surgeries as far apart as Carnforth, north Lancashire, and Twickenham in south-west London reporting in the past few days that they cannot plan appointments more than a week ahead because they do not know what the NHS can supply them. “This is where pressure needs to be exerted on the politicians,” said David Wrigley, a GP in Carnforth and a vice-chair of the British Medical Association.
I am not sure how that is going to speed up the bottling of 14 million doses? You scream as much as your like at Boris and Hancock, that isn't going to ramp up the speed of the production line in North Wales. Both has been very forthcoming that supply is the limiting factor.
Plenty of people believe that shouting "do something" will help.
When a traffic jam develops, the people who think that honking their horns will make it all go away. Those people.
I presume they feel vindicated when the delivery driver finishes unloading the skip (or whatever) and traffic resumes it's normal flow.
"I did that", they think.
A vivid image indeed. There are unfortunately several horn honkers on PB - it's the aspect of comments that I find the most tedious.
--AS
There is nothing that a suitable employee can't fix. I wonder if this guy does requests -
Bloody hell, that's a WW2 anti-tank rifle. 14.5mm calibre. Could go through a tank very easily in the early-ish war years - in fact that was the original reason some German tanks had hang-on plates on the sides, to perturb the bullet before it got to the actual armour. How can he cope with the recoil?!
Under powered ammo would be my guess. Although due to their weight At rifles often had suprisingly modest recoil give the bullet they were firing.
Can I personally be the first to say fuck that shit.
It is bullshit reporting from The Sun.
Prof Van-Tam said during an exclusive interview with The Sun: "The pandemic has changed a lot of things. It has changed the way you and I approach hand hygiene.
"We all carry hand sanitiser around now, we all expect in most of the places we go into that hand sanitiser is provided at the door.
“I think there are going to be people who make a personal decision to say, you know what, when I’m in a crowded place in the winter I’m going to put a face covering on. When I’m on a tube I am going to put a face covering on."
However, Prof Van-Tam added that this doesn't mean this will be enforced, but rather that the mentality towards the virus has changed things.
He said: "I really don’t think the government has any intention that we should all walk around forever and a day distinguishing each other only by peering through a face covering.
“But I think individuals at different levels will choose to keep some of the infection precautionary behaviour that we have had to adopt as a matter of absolute necessity during Covid.”
He continued: "I don’t think we are ever going to take this virus away out of humankind. I think the virus is going to continue to change over time, as the disease has already shown signs of doing.
Ah, thanks for providing the expanded text
I suspect plenty of us (well me anyway) will always carry hand sanitiser and a mask upon my person on most occasions post vaccinations.
Nor am I likely to choose to stand too close to people.
Our HR department is working on a new set of rules, post vaccination, which says if people have flu like symptoms during flu season then they should work from home/get tested/something along those lines.
Your company must be backward if it’s only just designing guidelines now that people who are obviously ill shouldn’t come into the office.
If you are a say at 40 year old, that makes several million a year and your job requires you to fly around the world, I can see those kind of people easily splashing out £10k+ for get their jab. Because otherwise they will more than likely be waiting until late summer / autumn. That's a long time for somebody who makes that kind of money.
Or you are someone that earns, I dunno, £100-200k a year, and your job requires close social interaction or travel, yet you have beloved family members who are very vulnerable, who you haven't seen in a year.
In fact, take that salary down to £70k a year (quite a few people). It's just £1000 for a jab. It allows you to hug your mother/sister/lover. A lot of people would pay it, I reckon. It is less than the price of a holiday and this means much much more than a holiday. But we shall see.
Surely you'd want your vulnerable family members to have it first? Fortunately, HMG has seen fit to prioritise them.
Indeed. Sean is assuming that having the vaccine yourself means you can’t pass it on. Whereas the most that has been said is that vaccination *may* reduce the chances of transmission.
That's not true: there is plenty of evidence it reduces transmission, we just don't know how much.
Could you point out to everyone that I am not this "Sean" character., It irks. Thanks
(1) because it should have resulted in a substantial drop in infection rates when combined with the current lockdown
(2) because we never had a New York style experience, and even there antibody tests only indicated about one-in-five Manhattanites had gotten CV19
(3) from an anecdotal basis, I know two people currently seriously ill with CV19 (both in the UK, one a man in his 50s, the other a woman in her 80s), and two people who have it but not seriously (one in the UK, one in Iowa). I don't know anyone in LA who currently has it.
Too often we've (and I count myself guilty of this) overestimated how many people have had the disease.
This site goes from obsessing about people refusing the vaccine to obsessing about people getting it too early. Relax I say as both will happen and neither will be more than a drop in the ocean
If you are a say at 40 year old, that makes several million a year and your job requires you to fly around the world, I can see those kind of people easily splashing out £10k+ for get their jab. Because otherwise they will more than likely be waiting until late summer / autumn. That's a long time for somebody who makes that kind of money.
Or you are someone that earns, I dunno, £100-200k a year, and your job requires close social interaction or travel, yet you have beloved family members who are very vulnerable, who you haven't seen in a year.
In fact, take that salary down to £70k a year (quite a few people). It's just £1000 for a jab. It allows you to hug your mother/sister/lover. A lot of people would pay it, I reckon. It is less than the price of a holiday and this means much much more than a holiday. But we shall see.
Surely you'd want your vulnerable family members to have it first? Fortunately, HMG has seen fit to prioritise them.
Indeed. Sean is assuming that having the vaccine yourself means you can’t pass it on. Whereas the most that has been said is that vaccination *may* reduce the chances of transmission.
That's not true: there is plenty of evidence it reduces transmission, we just don't know how much.
Could you point out to everyone that I am not this "Sean" character., It irks. Thanks
Can I personally be the first to say fuck that shit.
It is bullshit reporting from The Sun.
Prof Van-Tam said during an exclusive interview with The Sun: "The pandemic has changed a lot of things. It has changed the way you and I approach hand hygiene.
"We all carry hand sanitiser around now, we all expect in most of the places we go into that hand sanitiser is provided at the door.
“I think there are going to be people who make a personal decision to say, you know what, when I’m in a crowded place in the winter I’m going to put a face covering on. When I’m on a tube I am going to put a face covering on."
However, Prof Van-Tam added that this doesn't mean this will be enforced, but rather that the mentality towards the virus has changed things.
He said: "I really don’t think the government has any intention that we should all walk around forever and a day distinguishing each other only by peering through a face covering.
“But I think individuals at different levels will choose to keep some of the infection precautionary behaviour that we have had to adopt as a matter of absolute necessity during Covid.”
He continued: "I don’t think we are ever going to take this virus away out of humankind. I think the virus is going to continue to change over time, as the disease has already shown signs of doing.
Ah, thanks for providing the expanded text
I suspect plenty of us (well me anyway) will always carry hand sanitiser and a mask upon my person on most occasions post vaccinations.
Nor am I likely to choose to stand too close to people.
Our HR department is working on a new set of rules, post vaccination, which says if people have flu like symptoms during flu season then they should work from home/get tested/something along those lines.
I think we will see changes in procedures / behaviour...I mean who thought it was a good idea to have people sit in a GP waiting room with 20-30 other people if you have what you think is flu?
I think post vaccination anyone who sneezes/coughs in a (crowded) public place is likely to assaulted or shamed into staying at home.
On unrelated point if the vaccine people could come up with a cure for my hayfever that would be great.
If you are a say at 40 year old, that makes several million a year and your job requires you to fly around the world, I can see those kind of people easily splashing out £10k+ for get their jab. Because otherwise they will more than likely be waiting until late summer / autumn. That's a long time for somebody who makes that kind of money.
Or you are someone that earns, I dunno, £100-200k a year, and your job requires close social interaction or travel, yet you have beloved family members who are very vulnerable, who you haven't seen in a year.
In fact, take that salary down to £70k a year (quite a few people). It's just £1000 for a jab. It allows you to hug your mother/sister/lover. A lot of people would pay it, I reckon. It is less than the price of a holiday and this means much much more than a holiday. But we shall see.
Surely you'd want your vulnerable family members to have it first? Fortunately, HMG has seen fit to prioritise them.
Indeed. Sean is assuming that having the vaccine yourself means you can’t pass it on. Whereas the most that has been said is that vaccination *may* reduce the chances of transmission.
That's not true: there is plenty of evidence it reduces transmission, we just don't know how much.
Could you point out to everyone that I am not this "Sean" character., It irks. Thanks
I'd pay a hundred quid for either of the Pfizer or Moderna jab, no more. I'm pretty tight and in good health. I suspect I'll get Oxford around September time.
But, you have a price. That is the point.
My guess is we all do. Apart from the rare and saintly types. And there aren't many of them over 40 years old. Not with this virus
Actually think there are plenty of folks who would NOT jump at the chance to jump the line. Indeed, I actually know a few, who actually have good medical grounds for preferment but who plan to wait until the powers-that-be notify them that it's their turn.
Not saying that's a permanent position not subject to change IF there is sufficient pressure or risk. But it IS a strong inclination with some people, certainly more than a handful.
Question: how many PBers would pay a large sum of cash - say £1000+ - to get the jab privately?
This will soon be a moral dilemma for all of us. It is coming.
I was amazed when I asked this of a Corbynite novelist friend of mine today. She's pretty ultra-left. I've heard her denouncing private medicine (private anything) before. She said God yes, I'd pay it today, where is it?
All her principles out the window, just like that
I think that situation only arises if they start vaccinating 24 hours with the night time vaccinations being available to anyone for payment.
Why? Pfizer and Moderna (at least) are absolutely private companies seeking a profit. Imagine a large private health company says "We have tens of thousands of wealthy clients around the world, mainly in LA, NYC, London, and Paris, all willing to pay $1000 per jab. We are therefore willing to pay $500 a jab rather than $30 a jab. Please give us 50,000"
Will Pfizer really ignore this easy and massive profit? I doubt it.
According to reports, the reason Israel is doing so well is because their government privately paid LOADS of money per Pfizer jab, very early on.
Money talks. And saves lives.
I doubt it was the money that made Israel first - agreeing to provide side effect and other data back from the largest sample is what will have made Israel priority 1.
Bless, You think an unexpected early deal between - cough - Israel- - and - cough - Pfizer - was made on the basis of the sharing of medical data?
Israel. And. Pfizer.
Hm.
Or the deal was made because Israel agreed to pay BILLIONS over the odds to secure the global life-raft of the Jewish people? Colour me cynical, but I suspect a large amount of money played a significant role
Erm, more than a few tropes in that post. I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt.
I do not believe it is an anti-Semitic trope to say that the Israeli government is singularly and literally determined on the preservation of the Jewish people. That is why it exists. The Holocaust showed that Jews were not safe in "civilised Europe". Hence, Israel. Therefore, the Jewish state will pay way over the odds to secure a vaccine that saves Jews, early on, from a potentially calamitous virus.
If they have the money to vaccinate Israelis first, they will pay it. I see Bahrain is doing the same, without any public fuss.
At the same time, Pfizer and Moderna are capitalist companies legally obligated to seek a profit, by their shareholders.
There is no trope here. This is the way of the world. Perhaps it should not be so, but that is not my argument.
If the fact that Israel is a Jewish state is neither here nor there, why even go on about it? Why would you be saying Israel cough cough Pfizer? Do you know that the CEO of Pfizer is Jewish? I can't think what else the cough cough would be referencing other than something pretty tawdry.
History is going to judge the GOP very harshly indeed I think, there must also be a body of centre-right voters they've lost for a generation with their cowardice. The MAGAs are the base, but enough only head out for Trump to make it advantage Democrats in the next set of midterms. My prior is that the Democrats go into 2022 with the upper hand contrary to most midterms.
I wonder if there will be more protest votes for libertarian candidates.
I for one believe that the GOP House vote today shows that they are not fit for purpose as either a governing party or a party of loyal opposition. I could not support, and will not support, any GOP federal candidate until those who voted to challenge the election results AND those who opposed impeachment are purged from the party and leadership in both Houses has been replaced with persons who instill belief that they are capable of putting country above party and personal ambition.
History is going to judge the GOP very harshly indeed I think, there must also be a body of centre-right voters they've lost for a generation with their cowardice. The MAGAs are the base, but enough only head out for Trump to make it advantage Democrats in the next set of midterms. My prior is that the Democrats go into 2022 with the upper hand contrary to most midterms.
I disagree, Biden and the Democrats now have all the power in both the Congress and the Presidency and if they push too far in a woke direction then there will be a backlash in 2022 and the GOP will take the House again.
Many Biden voters equally will not bother to vote in the 2022 midterms as many Obama voters did not bother to vote in the 2010 midterms, Republicans however will in the usual midterm protest vote
Hoo boy, Trump is absolutely bricking himself, isn't he?
Given how he reacted as if he had no cares in the aftermath, and just the other day was busy focusing on how what he said was all fine, I wonder who in his team was finally able to get through to him that this is serious, and he could be in real trouble.
GP surgeries as far apart as Carnforth, north Lancashire, and Twickenham in south-west London reporting in the past few days that they cannot plan appointments more than a week ahead because they do not know what the NHS can supply them. “This is where pressure needs to be exerted on the politicians,” said David Wrigley, a GP in Carnforth and a vice-chair of the British Medical Association.
I am not sure how that is going to speed up the bottling of 14 million doses? You scream as much as your like at Boris and Hancock, that isn't going to ramp up the speed of the production line in North Wales. Both has been very forthcoming that supply is the limiting factor.
Plenty of people believe that shouting "do something" will help.
When a traffic jam develops, the people who think that honking their horns will make it all go away. Those people.
I presume they feel vindicated when the delivery driver finishes unloading the skip (or whatever) and traffic resumes it's normal flow.
"I did that", they think.
A vivid image indeed. There are unfortunately several horn honkers on PB - it's the aspect of comments that I find the most tedious.
--AS
There is nothing that a suitable employee can't fix. I wonder if this guy does requests -
Bloody hell, that's a WW2 anti-tank rifle. 14.5mm calibre. Could go through a tank very easily in the early-ish war years - in fact that was the original reason some German tanks had hang-on plates on the sides, to perturb the bullet before it got to the actual armour. How can he cope with the recoil?!
Under powered ammo would be my guess. Although due to their weight At rifles often had suprisingly modest recoil give the bullet they were firing.
Can I personally be the first to say fuck that shit.
It is bullshit reporting from The Sun.
Prof Van-Tam said during an exclusive interview with The Sun: "The pandemic has changed a lot of things. It has changed the way you and I approach hand hygiene.
"We all carry hand sanitiser around now, we all expect in most of the places we go into that hand sanitiser is provided at the door.
“I think there are going to be people who make a personal decision to say, you know what, when I’m in a crowded place in the winter I’m going to put a face covering on. When I’m on a tube I am going to put a face covering on."
However, Prof Van-Tam added that this doesn't mean this will be enforced, but rather that the mentality towards the virus has changed things.
He said: "I really don’t think the government has any intention that we should all walk around forever and a day distinguishing each other only by peering through a face covering.
“But I think individuals at different levels will choose to keep some of the infection precautionary behaviour that we have had to adopt as a matter of absolute necessity during Covid.”
He continued: "I don’t think we are ever going to take this virus away out of humankind. I think the virus is going to continue to change over time, as the disease has already shown signs of doing.
Ah, thanks for providing the expanded text
I suspect plenty of us (well me anyway) will always carry hand sanitiser and a mask upon my person on most occasions post vaccinations.
Nor am I likely to choose to stand too close to people.
Our HR department is working on a new set of rules, post vaccination, which says if people have flu like symptoms during flu season then they should work from home/get tested/something along those lines.
Your company must be backward if it’s only just designing guidelines now that people who are obviously ill shouldn’t come into the office.
I see English isn't your first language.
Well you understood my point I assume? It’s risible that you have had to ask your HR team to tell employees with a cold / the flu to stay away. With presentee cultures like that, no wonder half of London is coughing and sniffling on the Tube every winter.
Question: how many PBers would pay a large sum of cash - say £1000+ - to get the jab privately?
This will soon be a moral dilemma for all of us. It is coming.
I was amazed when I asked this of a Corbynite novelist friend of mine today. She's pretty ultra-left. I've heard her denouncing private medicine (private anything) before. She said God yes, I'd pay it today, where is it?
All her principles out the window, just like that
I think that situation only arises if they start vaccinating 24 hours with the night time vaccinations being available to anyone for payment.
Why? Pfizer and Moderna (at least) are absolutely private companies seeking a profit. Imagine a large private health company says "We have tens of thousands of wealthy clients around the world, mainly in LA, NYC, London, and Paris, all willing to pay $1000 per jab. We are therefore willing to pay $500 a jab rather than $30 a jab. Please give us 50,000"
Will Pfizer really ignore this easy and massive profit? I doubt it.
According to reports, the reason Israel is doing so well is because their government privately paid LOADS of money per Pfizer jab, very early on.
Money talks. And saves lives.
I doubt it was the money that made Israel first - agreeing to provide side effect and other data back from the largest sample is what will have made Israel priority 1.
Bless, You think an unexpected early deal between - cough - Israel- - and - cough - Pfizer - was made on the basis of the sharing of medical data?
Israel. And. Pfizer.
Hm.
Or the deal was made because Israel agreed to pay BILLIONS over the odds to secure the global life-raft of the Jewish people? Colour me cynical, but I suspect a large amount of money played a significant role
Erm, more than a few tropes in that post. I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt.
I do not believe it is an anti-Semitic trope to say that the Israeli government is singularly and literally determined on the preservation of the Jewish people. That is why it exists. The Holocaust showed that Jews were not safe in "civilised Europe". Hence, Israel. Therefore, the Jewish state will pay way over the odds to secure a vaccine that saves Jews, early on, from a potentially calamitous virus.
If they have the money to vaccinate Israelis first, they will pay it. I see Bahrain is doing the same, without any public fuss.
At the same time, Pfizer and Moderna are capitalist companies legally obligated to seek a profit, by their shareholders.
There is no trope here. This is the way of the world. Perhaps it should not be so, but that is not my argument.
If the fact that Israel is a Jewish state is neither here nor there, why even go on about it? Why would you be saying Israel cough cough Pfizer? Do you know that the CEO of Pfizer is Jewish? I can't think what else the cough cough would be referencing other than something pretty tawdry.
Are you an antisemite?
Short answer: no
Long answer: fuck off, and no
I think it's a perfectly natural question to come to, and it seems that I'm not the only one looking askance at your comments. Let me put it this way. Antisemites do exist, and they say the sorts of things you did in that Pfizer-Israel post. If you are not antisemitic, I'm at a bit of a loss to imagine what was behind your post.
I'd pay a hundred quid for either of the Pfizer or Moderna jab, no more. I'm pretty tight and in good health. I suspect I'll get Oxford around September time.
But, you have a price. That is the point.
My guess is we all do. Apart from the rare and saintly types. And there aren't many of them over 40 years old. Not with this virus
Just catching up on this thread, and getting depressed. The idea that the rich should be able to use their wealth to jump the vaccine queue is, in my view, immoral - but it's what we've come to expect. And I'm well over 40, and no saint, and yes I could afford it I guess.
If folk have money to spare, why not wait their turn for a vaccine and give their spare money to a food bank or people struggling through tough Covid days?
Finally - I believe you're a fiction writer. Your Corbyn-loving hypocrite is, I would suggest, a work of fiction.
History is going to judge the GOP very harshly indeed I think, there must also be a body of centre-right voters they've lost for a generation with their cowardice. The MAGAs are the base, but enough only head out for Trump to make it advantage Democrats in the next set of midterms. My prior is that the Democrats go into 2022 with the upper hand contrary to most midterms.
I wonder if there will be more protest votes for libertarian candidates.
I for one believe that the GOP House vote today shows that they are not fit for purpose as either a governing party or a party of loyal opposition. I could not support, and will not support, any GOP federal candidate until those who voted to challenge the election results AND those who opposed impeachment are purged from the party and leadership in both Houses has been replaced with persons who instill belief that they are capable of putting country above party and personal ambition.
GP surgeries as far apart as Carnforth, north Lancashire, and Twickenham in south-west London reporting in the past few days that they cannot plan appointments more than a week ahead because they do not know what the NHS can supply them. “This is where pressure needs to be exerted on the politicians,” said David Wrigley, a GP in Carnforth and a vice-chair of the British Medical Association.
I am not sure how that is going to speed up the bottling of 14 million doses? You scream as much as your like at Boris and Hancock, that isn't going to ramp up the speed of the production line in North Wales. Both has been very forthcoming that supply is the limiting factor.
Plenty of people believe that shouting "do something" will help.
When a traffic jam develops, the people who think that honking their horns will make it all go away. Those people.
I presume they feel vindicated when the delivery driver finishes unloading the skip (or whatever) and traffic resumes it's normal flow.
"I did that", they think.
A vivid image indeed. There are unfortunately several horn honkers on PB - it's the aspect of comments that I find the most tedious.
--AS
There is nothing that a suitable employee can't fix. I wonder if this guy does requests -
Bloody hell, that's a WW2 anti-tank rifle. 14.5mm calibre. Could go through a tank very easily in the early-ish war years - in fact that was the original reason some German tanks had hang-on plates on the sides, to perturb the bullet before it got to the actual armour. How can he cope with the recoil?!
Under powered ammo would be my guess. Although due to their weight At rifles often had suprisingly modest recoil give the bullet they were firing.
Can I personally be the first to say fuck that shit.
It is bullshit reporting from The Sun.
Prof Van-Tam said during an exclusive interview with The Sun: "The pandemic has changed a lot of things. It has changed the way you and I approach hand hygiene.
"We all carry hand sanitiser around now, we all expect in most of the places we go into that hand sanitiser is provided at the door.
“I think there are going to be people who make a personal decision to say, you know what, when I’m in a crowded place in the winter I’m going to put a face covering on. When I’m on a tube I am going to put a face covering on."
However, Prof Van-Tam added that this doesn't mean this will be enforced, but rather that the mentality towards the virus has changed things.
He said: "I really don’t think the government has any intention that we should all walk around forever and a day distinguishing each other only by peering through a face covering.
“But I think individuals at different levels will choose to keep some of the infection precautionary behaviour that we have had to adopt as a matter of absolute necessity during Covid.”
He continued: "I don’t think we are ever going to take this virus away out of humankind. I think the virus is going to continue to change over time, as the disease has already shown signs of doing.
Ah, thanks for providing the expanded text
I suspect plenty of us (well me anyway) will always carry hand sanitiser and a mask upon my person on most occasions post vaccinations.
Nor am I likely to choose to stand too close to people.
Our HR department is working on a new set of rules, post vaccination, which says if people have flu like symptoms during flu season then they should work from home/get tested/something along those lines.
Your company must be backward if it’s only just designing guidelines now that people who are obviously ill shouldn’t come into the office.
I see English isn't your first language.
Well you understood my point I assume? It’s risible that you have had to ask your HR team to tell employees with a cold / the flu to stay away. With presentee cultures like that, no wonder half of London is coughing and sniffling on the Tube every winter.
No, it's more people came into the office thinking it was nothing to worry about or didn't want to let the team down.
We had existing rules in place, we're now updating them for a post vaccine and mutating Covid-19 world.
Question: how many PBers would pay a large sum of cash - say £1000+ - to get the jab privately?
This will soon be a moral dilemma for all of us. It is coming.
I was amazed when I asked this of a Corbynite novelist friend of mine today. She's pretty ultra-left. I've heard her denouncing private medicine (private anything) before. She said God yes, I'd pay it today, where is it?
All her principles out the window, just like that
I think that situation only arises if they start vaccinating 24 hours with the night time vaccinations being available to anyone for payment.
Why? Pfizer and Moderna (at least) are absolutely private companies seeking a profit. Imagine a large private health company says "We have tens of thousands of wealthy clients around the world, mainly in LA, NYC, London, and Paris, all willing to pay $1000 per jab. We are therefore willing to pay $500 a jab rather than $30 a jab. Please give us 50,000"
Will Pfizer really ignore this easy and massive profit? I doubt it.
According to reports, the reason Israel is doing so well is because their government privately paid LOADS of money per Pfizer jab, very early on.
Money talks. And saves lives.
I doubt it was the money that made Israel first - agreeing to provide side effect and other data back from the largest sample is what will have made Israel priority 1.
Bless, You think an unexpected early deal between - cough - Israel- - and - cough - Pfizer - was made on the basis of the sharing of medical data?
Israel. And. Pfizer.
Hm.
Or the deal was made because Israel agreed to pay BILLIONS over the odds to secure the global life-raft of the Jewish people? Colour me cynical, but I suspect a large amount of money played a significant role
Erm, more than a few tropes in that post. I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt.
I do not believe it is an anti-Semitic trope to say that the Israeli government is singularly and literally determined on the preservation of the Jewish people. That is why it exists. The Holocaust showed that Jews were not safe in "civilised Europe". Hence, Israel. Therefore, the Jewish state will pay way over the odds to secure a vaccine that saves Jews, early on, from a potentially calamitous virus.
If they have the money to vaccinate Israelis first, they will pay it. I see Bahrain is doing the same, without any public fuss.
At the same time, Pfizer and Moderna are capitalist companies legally obligated to seek a profit, by their shareholders.
There is no trope here. This is the way of the world. Perhaps it should not be so, but that is not my argument.
If the fact that Israel is a Jewish state is neither here nor there, why even go on about it? Why would you be saying Israel cough cough Pfizer? Do you know that the CEO of Pfizer is Jewish? I can't think what else the cough cough would be referencing other than something pretty tawdry.
Are you an antisemite?
Short answer: no
Long answer: fuck off, and no
Sean could be a bit of an antisemite and Islamophobe and racist when the mood was upon him. Good job he’s not around anymore.
I'd pay a hundred quid for either of the Pfizer or Moderna jab, no more. I'm pretty tight and in good health. I suspect I'll get Oxford around September time.
But, you have a price. That is the point. My guess is we all do. Apart from the rare and saintly types. And there aren't many of them over 40 years old. Not with this virus
I'm in my late 60s and IMHO good health and got called for my virus jab today. I did wonder whether they had made a mistake but after debating with myself whether I was denying someone else this opportunity the answer was unequivocally no so I took it and decided that I had won the post code lottery. (Buying more tickets for the other lottery tomorrow just in case).
History is going to judge the GOP very harshly indeed I think, there must also be a body of centre-right voters they've lost for a generation with their cowardice. The MAGAs are the base, but enough only head out for Trump to make it advantage Democrats in the next set of midterms. My prior is that the Democrats go into 2022 with the upper hand contrary to most midterms.
I disagree, Biden and the Democrats now have all the power in both the Congress and the Presidency and if they push too far in a woke direction then there will be a backlash in 2022 and the GOP will take the House again.
Many Biden voters equally will not bother to vote in the 2022 midterms as many Obama voters did not bother to vote in the 2010 midterms, Republicans however will in the usual midterm protest vote
What woke things do you fear they are going to do?
What woke things have actually been implemented by Democratic states (who set 99% of the laws in the US) that worry you particularly?
Indeed, the most woke thing the US has done at a Federal level was the expansion of sexual discrimination laws to include LBGT individuals, which was done at the Supreme Court in a judgement written by... errr... Neil Goresuch.
I'd pay a hundred quid for either of the Pfizer or Moderna jab, no more. I'm pretty tight and in good health. I suspect I'll get Oxford around September time.
But, you have a price. That is the point.
My guess is we all do. Apart from the rare and saintly types. And there aren't many of them over 40 years old. Not with this virus
Actually think there are plenty of folks who would NOT jump at the chance to jump the line. Indeed, I actually know a few, who actually have good medical grounds for preferment but who plan to wait until the powers-that-be notify them that it's their turn.
Not saying that's a permanent position not subject to change IF there is sufficient pressure or risk. But it IS a strong inclination with some people, certainly more than a handful.
I genuinely admire these people. They are probably, but not always, acting in the better interest of the world. I do not know what I would do
I can see some morally difficult scenarios. Obviously a bachelor billionaire, with no kids, flying in his private jet to a clinic in Qatar to get the best possible vaccine for $10,000 is acting very selfishly, and probably immorally.
But let's take a.... modestly successful, working class businessman in his late 40s, with 4 kids, and very vulnerable parents, and a sister with breast cancer. He feeds them all, and they need his money. He won't get the jab until April, at the earliest, by the government calendar, and if he stops working they are in deep shit. And his work requires him to travel.
I can easily see why that man - or woman - might think: paying £1000 for a jab to jump the queue is justifiable, indeed the right thing, morally.
I'd pay a hundred quid for either of the Pfizer or Moderna jab, no more. I'm pretty tight and in good health. I suspect I'll get Oxford around September time.
But, you have a price. That is the point. My guess is we all do. Apart from the rare and saintly types. And there aren't many of them over 40 years old. Not with this virus
I'm in my late 60s and IMHO good health and got called for my virus jab today. I did wonder whether they had made a mistake but after debating with myself whether I was denying someone else this opportunity the answer was unequivocally no so I took it and decided that I had won the post code lottery. (Buying more tickets for the other lottery tomorrow just in case).
They need some of you younger ones to be chief lizard
The number of new variants rather worry me. This one originated in Amazonas, one of the places in the world most approaching herd immunity. The endemic nature of the virus must be leading to a lot of evolutionary pressure.
I am afraid that there are a lot of chapters left in the coronavirus story.
Yes, the news the other day of the resurgence in Manaus, which was supposed (I’m not sure how justifiably) to have achieved herd immunity the hard way last year, was a straw in the wind.
Though it remains to be seen if vaccination is still protective against severe disease, should any of these variants evade immunity (which also remains to be seen).
History is going to judge the GOP very harshly indeed I think, there must also be a body of centre-right voters they've lost for a generation with their cowardice. The MAGAs are the base, but enough only head out for Trump to make it advantage Democrats in the next set of midterms. My prior is that the Democrats go into 2022 with the upper hand contrary to most midterms.
I disagree, Biden and the Democrats now have all the power in both the Congress and the Presidency and if they push too far in a woke direction then there will be a backlash in 2022 and the GOP will take the House again.
Many Biden voters equally will not bother to vote in the 2022 midterms as many Obama voters did not bother to vote in the 2010 midterms, Republicans however will in the usual midterm protest vote
Yes, everything as per usual, ad infinitum. Why even bother with polling, when we already know the future based on the past?
GP surgeries as far apart as Carnforth, north Lancashire, and Twickenham in south-west London reporting in the past few days that they cannot plan appointments more than a week ahead because they do not know what the NHS can supply them. “This is where pressure needs to be exerted on the politicians,” said David Wrigley, a GP in Carnforth and a vice-chair of the British Medical Association.
I am not sure how that is going to speed up the bottling of 14 million doses? You scream as much as your like at Boris and Hancock, that isn't going to ramp up the speed of the production line in North Wales. Both has been very forthcoming that supply is the limiting factor.
Plenty of people believe that shouting "do something" will help.
When a traffic jam develops, the people who think that honking their horns will make it all go away. Those people.
I presume they feel vindicated when the delivery driver finishes unloading the skip (or whatever) and traffic resumes it's normal flow.
"I did that", they think.
A vivid image indeed. There are unfortunately several horn honkers on PB - it's the aspect of comments that I find the most tedious.
--AS
There is nothing that a suitable employee can't fix. I wonder if this guy does requests -
Bloody hell, that's a WW2 anti-tank rifle. 14.5mm calibre. Could go through a tank very easily in the early-ish war years - in fact that was the original reason some German tanks had hang-on plates on the sides, to perturb the bullet before it got to the actual armour. How can he cope with the recoil?!
Under powered ammo would be my guess. Although due to their weight At rifles often had suprisingly modest recoil give the bullet they were firing.
Can I personally be the first to say fuck that shit.
It is bullshit reporting from The Sun.
Prof Van-Tam said during an exclusive interview with The Sun: "The pandemic has changed a lot of things. It has changed the way you and I approach hand hygiene.
"We all carry hand sanitiser around now, we all expect in most of the places we go into that hand sanitiser is provided at the door.
“I think there are going to be people who make a personal decision to say, you know what, when I’m in a crowded place in the winter I’m going to put a face covering on. When I’m on a tube I am going to put a face covering on."
However, Prof Van-Tam added that this doesn't mean this will be enforced, but rather that the mentality towards the virus has changed things.
He said: "I really don’t think the government has any intention that we should all walk around forever and a day distinguishing each other only by peering through a face covering.
“But I think individuals at different levels will choose to keep some of the infection precautionary behaviour that we have had to adopt as a matter of absolute necessity during Covid.”
He continued: "I don’t think we are ever going to take this virus away out of humankind. I think the virus is going to continue to change over time, as the disease has already shown signs of doing.
Ah, thanks for providing the expanded text
I suspect plenty of us (well me anyway) will always carry hand sanitiser and a mask upon my person on most occasions post vaccinations.
Nor am I likely to choose to stand too close to people.
Our HR department is working on a new set of rules, post vaccination, which says if people have flu like symptoms during flu season then they should work from home/get tested/something along those lines.
Your company must be backward if it’s only just designing guidelines now that people who are obviously ill shouldn’t come into the office.
I see English isn't your first language.
Well you understood my point I assume? It’s risible that you have had to ask your HR team to tell employees with a cold / the flu to stay away. With presentee cultures like that, no wonder half of London is coughing and sniffling on the Tube every winter.
If one thing changes after this it will be people staying home when they're ill rather than "powering through".
I personally think they need to liven up the queue at the vaccination centres by using the rumour put about at school vaccinations for measles and whooping cough that the nurse also measures your cock
Question: how many PBers would pay a large sum of cash - say £1000+ - to get the jab privately?
This will soon be a moral dilemma for all of us. It is coming.
I was amazed when I asked this of a Corbynite novelist friend of mine today. She's pretty ultra-left. I've heard her denouncing private medicine (private anything) before. She said God yes, I'd pay it today, where is it?
All her principles out the window, just like that
I think that situation only arises if they start vaccinating 24 hours with the night time vaccinations being available to anyone for payment.
Why? Pfizer and Moderna (at least) are absolutely private companies seeking a profit. Imagine a large private health company says "We have tens of thousands of wealthy clients around the world, mainly in LA, NYC, London, and Paris, all willing to pay $1000 per jab. We are therefore willing to pay $500 a jab rather than $30 a jab. Please give us 50,000"
Will Pfizer really ignore this easy and massive profit? I doubt it.
According to reports, the reason Israel is doing so well is because their government privately paid LOADS of money per Pfizer jab, very early on.
Money talks. And saves lives.
I doubt it was the money that made Israel first - agreeing to provide side effect and other data back from the largest sample is what will have made Israel priority 1.
Bless, You think an unexpected early deal between - cough - Israel- - and - cough - Pfizer - was made on the basis of the sharing of medical data?
Israel. And. Pfizer.
Hm.
Or the deal was made because Israel agreed to pay BILLIONS over the odds to secure the global life-raft of the Jewish people? Colour me cynical, but I suspect a large amount of money played a significant role
Erm, more than a few tropes in that post. I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt.
I do not believe it is an anti-Semitic trope to say that the Israeli government is singularly and literally determined on the preservation of the Jewish people. That is why it exists. The Holocaust showed that Jews were not safe in "civilised Europe". Hence, Israel. Therefore, the Jewish state will pay way over the odds to secure a vaccine that saves Jews, early on, from a potentially calamitous virus.
If they have the money to vaccinate Israelis first, they will pay it. I see Bahrain is doing the same, without any public fuss.
At the same time, Pfizer and Moderna are capitalist companies legally obligated to seek a profit, by their shareholders.
There is no trope here. This is the way of the world. Perhaps it should not be so, but that is not my argument.
If the fact that Israel is a Jewish state is neither here nor there, why even go on about it? Why would you be saying Israel cough cough Pfizer? Do you know that the CEO of Pfizer is Jewish? I can't think what else the cough cough would be referencing other than something pretty tawdry.
Are you an antisemite?
Short answer: no
Long answer: fuck off, and no
I think it's a perfectly natural question to come to, and it seems that I'm not the only one looking askance at your comments. Let me put it this way. Antisemites do exist, and they say the sorts of things you did in that Pfizer-Israel post. If you are not antisemitic, I'm at a bit of a loss to imagine what was behind your post.
Just watched a few episodes of Spiral. I like French TV, but couldn't get into this. PB's discussion on cheese and Trump more interesting.
It's a bit Marmite. I love it. Partner can't abide. And we generally see eye to eye on TV. There is a 15 year back story to contend with too. It doesn't do exposition.
Question: how many PBers would pay a large sum of cash - say £1000+ - to get the jab privately?
This will soon be a moral dilemma for all of us. It is coming.
I was amazed when I asked this of a Corbynite novelist friend of mine today. She's pretty ultra-left. I've heard her denouncing private medicine (private anything) before. She said God yes, I'd pay it today, where is it?
All her principles out the window, just like that
I wouldn't, what am I going to do with it? Be more brazen on my daily walks for the next two months?
This only ends if the biggest and most transmissive vector groups in our population are all vaccinated en-mass as quickly as possible.
(PS. As for the "principle" stuff it doesn't surprise me - and this is why I have so little time (and respect) for the incessant virtue-signalling of the hard-Left on fashionable issues and causes. Most of them are insecure narcissists and hypocrites who just want public social proof to validate themselves and address their deep-rooted personal insecurities. They should start with just one: integrity.)
Don’t think that’s anything to do with right/left. Probably just the circles that Leon inhabits.
Just watched a few episodes of Spiral. I like French TV, but couldn't get into this. PB's discussion on cheese and Trump more interesting.
We just binge-watched the whole season. Definitely the weakest of them all. It is the final season and it’s good they’re not going to try and eke it out any more.
History is going to judge the GOP very harshly indeed I think, there must also be a body of centre-right voters they've lost for a generation with their cowardice. The MAGAs are the base, but enough only head out for Trump to make it advantage Democrats in the next set of midterms. My prior is that the Democrats go into 2022 with the upper hand contrary to most midterms.
I disagree, Biden and the Democrats now have all the power in both the Congress and the Presidency and if they push too far in a woke direction then there will be a backlash in 2022 and the GOP will take the House again.
Many Biden voters equally will not bother to vote in the 2022 midterms as many Obama voters did not bother to vote in the 2010 midterms, Republicans however will in the usual midterm protest vote
History is going to judge the GOP very harshly indeed I think, there must also be a body of centre-right voters they've lost for a generation with their cowardice. The MAGAs are the base, but enough only head out for Trump to make it advantage Democrats in the next set of midterms. My prior is that the Democrats go into 2022 with the upper hand contrary to most midterms.
I disagree, Biden and the Democrats now have all the power in both the Congress and the Presidency and if they push too far in a woke direction then there will be a backlash in 2022 and the GOP will take the House again.
Many Biden voters equally will not bother to vote in the 2022 midterms as many Obama voters did not bother to vote in the 2010 midterms, Republicans however will in the usual midterm protest vote
Depends if Trump spouts off. He is a one man solution to low Democrat turnout. Maybe they should enact legislation where he they drop all charges in return for 50 choice tweets per day.
I personally think they need to liven up the queue at the vaccination centres by using the rumour put about at school vaccinations for measles and whooping cough that the nurse also measures your cock
I'd pay a hundred quid for either of the Pfizer or Moderna jab, no more. I'm pretty tight and in good health. I suspect I'll get Oxford around September time.
But, you have a price. That is the point.
My guess is we all do. Apart from the rare and saintly types. And there aren't many of them over 40 years old. Not with this virus
Actually think there are plenty of folks who would NOT jump at the chance to jump the line. Indeed, I actually know a few, who actually have good medical grounds for preferment but who plan to wait until the powers-that-be notify them that it's their turn.
Not saying that's a permanent position not subject to change IF there is sufficient pressure or risk. But it IS a strong inclination with some people, certainly more than a handful.
I genuinely admire these people. They are probably, but not always, acting in the better interest of the world. I do not know what I would do
I can see some morally difficult scenarios. Obviously a bachelor billionaire, with no kids, flying in his private jet to a clinic in Qatar to get the best possible vaccine for $10,000 is acting very selfishly, and probably immorally.
But let's take a.... modestly successful, working class businessman in his late 40s, with 4 kids, and very vulnerable parents, and a sister with breast cancer. He feeds them all, and they need his money. He won't get the jab until April, at the earliest, by the government calendar, and if he stops working they are in deep shit. And his work requires him to travel.
I can easily see why that man - or woman - might think: paying £1000 for a jab to jump the queue is justifiable, indeed the right thing, morally.
Is he wrong?
You make some valid points. Indeed, my argument to one friend, who is over-qualified to get an early jab, it that he should do it for the sake of his wife and daughter.
Sort of reminds me of the male first-class passengers on the Titanic, who instead of crowding the life boats, retired to the bar for a few final snifters and cigars. For example, Archie Butt, military aide and confidant to Presidents Theodore Roosevelt and William Taft, who went down with the ship. Because it was the right thing to do.
Everyone must make their own calculus.
Like the song says, you've got to walk that lonesome valley, you've got to walk it by yourself, nobody else can walk it for you.
GP surgeries as far apart as Carnforth, north Lancashire, and Twickenham in south-west London reporting in the past few days that they cannot plan appointments more than a week ahead because they do not know what the NHS can supply them. “This is where pressure needs to be exerted on the politicians,” said David Wrigley, a GP in Carnforth and a vice-chair of the British Medical Association.
I am not sure how that is going to speed up the bottling of 14 million doses? You scream as much as your like at Boris and Hancock, that isn't going to ramp up the speed of the production line in North Wales. Both has been very forthcoming that supply is the limiting factor.
Plenty of people believe that shouting "do something" will help.
When a traffic jam develops, the people who think that honking their horns will make it all go away. Those people.
I presume they feel vindicated when the delivery driver finishes unloading the skip (or whatever) and traffic resumes it's normal flow.
"I did that", they think.
A vivid image indeed. There are unfortunately several horn honkers on PB - it's the aspect of comments that I find the most tedious.
--AS
There is nothing that a suitable employee can't fix. I wonder if this guy does requests -
Bloody hell, that's a WW2 anti-tank rifle. 14.5mm calibre. Could go through a tank very easily in the early-ish war years - in fact that was the original reason some German tanks had hang-on plates on the sides, to perturb the bullet before it got to the actual armour. How can he cope with the recoil?!
Under powered ammo would be my guess. Although due to their weight At rifles often had suprisingly modest recoil give the bullet they were firing.
Can I personally be the first to say fuck that shit.
It is bullshit reporting from The Sun.
Prof Van-Tam said during an exclusive interview with The Sun: "The pandemic has changed a lot of things. It has changed the way you and I approach hand hygiene.
"We all carry hand sanitiser around now, we all expect in most of the places we go into that hand sanitiser is provided at the door.
“I think there are going to be people who make a personal decision to say, you know what, when I’m in a crowded place in the winter I’m going to put a face covering on. When I’m on a tube I am going to put a face covering on."
However, Prof Van-Tam added that this doesn't mean this will be enforced, but rather that the mentality towards the virus has changed things.
He said: "I really don’t think the government has any intention that we should all walk around forever and a day distinguishing each other only by peering through a face covering.
“But I think individuals at different levels will choose to keep some of the infection precautionary behaviour that we have had to adopt as a matter of absolute necessity during Covid.”
He continued: "I don’t think we are ever going to take this virus away out of humankind. I think the virus is going to continue to change over time, as the disease has already shown signs of doing.
Ah, thanks for providing the expanded text
I suspect plenty of us (well me anyway) will always carry hand sanitiser and a mask upon my person on most occasions post vaccinations.
Nor am I likely to choose to stand too close to people.
Our HR department is working on a new set of rules, post vaccination, which says if people have flu like symptoms during flu season then they should work from home/get tested/something along those lines.
Your company must be backward if it’s only just designing guidelines now that people who are obviously ill shouldn’t come into the office.
I see English isn't your first language.
Well you understood my point I assume? It’s risible that you have had to ask your HR team to tell employees with a cold / the flu to stay away. With presentee cultures like that, no wonder half of London is coughing and sniffling on the Tube every winter.
No, it's more people came into the office thinking it was nothing to worry about or didn't want to let the team down.
We had existing rules in place, we're now updating them for a post vaccine and mutating Covid-19 world.
Well that’s exactly the point, isn’t it?
They thought they’d be “letting the team down” by coming into the office.
History is going to judge the GOP very harshly indeed I think, there must also be a body of centre-right voters they've lost for a generation with their cowardice. The MAGAs are the base, but enough only head out for Trump to make it advantage Democrats in the next set of midterms. My prior is that the Democrats go into 2022 with the upper hand contrary to most midterms.
I disagree, Biden and the Democrats now have all the power in both the Congress and the Presidency and if they push too far in a woke direction then there will be a backlash in 2022 and the GOP will take the House again.
Many Biden voters equally will not bother to vote in the 2022 midterms as many Obama voters did not bother to vote in the 2010 midterms, Republicans however will in the usual midterm protest vote
Depends if Trump spouts off. He is a one man solution to low Democrat turnout. Maybe they should enact legislation where he they drop all charges in return for 50 choice tweets per day.
Democrats only turned out in the midterms when Trump was President to contain his power, when he is no longer President and Biden is they won't bother.
Republicans however will. Every President in the last 50 years has seen their party lose House seats in their first midterms with the sole exception of Dubya in 2002 because of 9/11. I doubt Biden will be an exception and the GOP need to only take 6 House seats in 2022 to get a majority.
History is going to judge the GOP very harshly indeed I think, there must also be a body of centre-right voters they've lost for a generation with their cowardice. The MAGAs are the base, but enough only head out for Trump to make it advantage Democrats in the next set of midterms. My prior is that the Democrats go into 2022 with the upper hand contrary to most midterms.
I disagree, Biden and the Democrats now have all the power in both the Congress and the Presidency and if they push too far in a woke direction then there will be a backlash in 2022 and the GOP will take the House again.
Many Biden voters equally will not bother to vote in the 2022 midterms as many Obama voters did not bother to vote in the 2010 midterms, Republicans however will in the usual midterm protest vote
Depends if Trump spouts off. He is a one man solution to low Democrat turnout. Maybe they should enact legislation where he they drop all charges in return for 50 choice tweets per day.
You know, I somehow missed the bit about Democrats "push too far in a woke direction".
Condemning and punishing an attempted Putsch fomented by Trumpsky & Co is NOT pushing wokeism!
THAT in fact is the line that Bloody Hands Hawley has been trying to push around, like a wheelbarrow of rotten turnips.
AND so far, all it's gotten him is DEEPER in his well-deserved hole. Sadly (for him) he forgot to bring along a septic tank.
History is going to judge the GOP very harshly indeed I think, there must also be a body of centre-right voters they've lost for a generation with their cowardice. The MAGAs are the base, but enough only head out for Trump to make it advantage Democrats in the next set of midterms. My prior is that the Democrats go into 2022 with the upper hand contrary to most midterms.
I disagree, Biden and the Democrats now have all the power in both the Congress and the Presidency and if they push too far in a woke direction then there will be a backlash in 2022 and the GOP will take the House again.
Many Biden voters equally will not bother to vote in the 2022 midterms as many Obama voters did not bother to vote in the 2010 midterms, Republicans however will in the usual midterm protest vote
Depends if Trump spouts off. He is a one man solution to low Democrat turnout. Maybe they should enact legislation where he they drop all charges in return for 50 choice tweets per day.
Democrats only turned out in the midterms when Trump was President to contain his power, when he is no longer President and Biden is they won't bother.
Republicans however will. Every President in the last 50 years has seen their party lose House seats in their first midterms with the sole exception of Dubya in 2002 because of 9/11. I doubt Biden will be an exception and the GOP need to only take 6 House seats in 2022 to get a majority.
That they did not do great this time around was not exactly encouraging.
after sneaking over to the bbc website to see what Belgian King's car being hit means I noticed a quiz on how well do you know the new covid rules - talk about fun!
Of course rich nations, as opposed to individuals, are using their wealth to jump the queue. And positively glorying in the fact. Not sure we who benefit ought to be pearl clutching. We live under capitalism not socialism after all.
History is going to judge the GOP very harshly indeed I think, there must also be a body of centre-right voters they've lost for a generation with their cowardice. The MAGAs are the base, but enough only head out for Trump to make it advantage Democrats in the next set of midterms. My prior is that the Democrats go into 2022 with the upper hand contrary to most midterms.
I disagree, Biden and the Democrats now have all the power in both the Congress and the Presidency and if they push too far in a woke direction then there will be a backlash in 2022 and the GOP will take the House again.
Many Biden voters equally will not bother to vote in the 2022 midterms as many Obama voters did not bother to vote in the 2010 midterms, Republicans however will in the usual midterm protest vote
Depends if Trump spouts off. He is a one man solution to low Democrat turnout. Maybe they should enact legislation where he they drop all charges in return for 50 choice tweets per day.
Democrats only turned out in the midterms when Trump was President to contain his power, when he is no longer President and Biden is they won't bother.
Republicans however will. Every President in the last 50 years has seen their party lose House seats in their first midterms with the sole exception of Dubya in 2002 because of 9/11. I doubt Biden will be an exception and the GOP need to only take 6 House seats in 2022 to get a majority.
SO do you think there is no similarity between 9/11 and last week? None?
History is going to judge the GOP very harshly indeed I think, there must also be a body of centre-right voters they've lost for a generation with their cowardice. The MAGAs are the base, but enough only head out for Trump to make it advantage Democrats in the next set of midterms. My prior is that the Democrats go into 2022 with the upper hand contrary to most midterms.
I disagree, Biden and the Democrats now have all the power in both the Congress and the Presidency and if they push too far in a woke direction then there will be a backlash in 2022 and the GOP will take the House again.
Many Biden voters equally will not bother to vote in the 2022 midterms as many Obama voters did not bother to vote in the 2010 midterms, Republicans however will in the usual midterm protest vote
Just like most presidents get 2 terms, right?
Even last November the GOP gained 15 House seats despite Trump's defeat, 15 gains in 2022 would see a GOP House majority
Just watched a few episodes of Spiral. I like French TV, but couldn't get into this. PB's discussion on cheese and Trump more interesting.
It's a bit Marmite. I love it. Partner can't abide. And we generally see eye to eye on TV. There is a 15 year back story to contend with too. It doesn't do exposition.
I like to try and follow it in French (I'm not good enough to be able to get it all with no subtitles but I can understand most if I'm concentrating. But this was harder as the voices didn't seem to be loud and using clear diction - probably because this was more 'gritty and real' than the previous French potboiler dramas I've seen on catch up.
I think this has been a question before - did our current cold viruses have a deadlier past? There's a suggestion that a pandemic from the late 1800s was one of them.
If the article is right then I would imagine we'll have a number of vaccine escapes and seasonal problems before eventually this thing evolves to become a lot less deadly. Unfortunately that means it isn't going away soon.
On the question of paying for a vaccine, I'd probably do it. Although all those I'm propping up will be themselves vaccinated by tomorrow, there's still the issue of becoming incapacitated for an unknown period.
If the government had a two week period auctioning off slots once they've done all the 70 year olds before resuming the priority list, I wonder how much they could raise?
I'd pay a hundred quid for either of the Pfizer or Moderna jab, no more. I'm pretty tight and in good health. I suspect I'll get Oxford around September time.
But, you have a price. That is the point.
My guess is we all do. Apart from the rare and saintly types. And there aren't many of them over 40 years old. Not with this virus
Actually think there are plenty of folks who would NOT jump at the chance to jump the line. Indeed, I actually know a few, who actually have good medical grounds for preferment but who plan to wait until the powers-that-be notify them that it's their turn.
Not saying that's a permanent position not subject to change IF there is sufficient pressure or risk. But it IS a strong inclination with some people, certainly more than a handful.
I genuinely admire these people. They are probably, but not always, acting in the better interest of the world. I do not know what I would do
I can see some morally difficult scenarios. Obviously a bachelor billionaire, with no kids, flying in his private jet to a clinic in Qatar to get the best possible vaccine for $10,000 is acting very selfishly, and probably immorally.
But let's take a.... modestly successful, working class businessman in his late 40s, with 4 kids, and very vulnerable parents, and a sister with breast cancer. He feeds them all, and they need his money. He won't get the jab until April, at the earliest, by the government calendar, and if he stops working they are in deep shit. And his work requires him to travel.
I can easily see why that man - or woman - might think: paying £1000 for a jab to jump the queue is justifiable, indeed the right thing, morally.
Is he wrong?
You make some valid points. Indeed, my argument to one friend, who is over-qualified to get an early jab, it that he should do it for the sake of his wife and daughter.
Sort of reminds me of the male first-class passengers on the Titanic, who instead of crowding the life boats, retired to the bar for a few final snifters and cigars. For example, Archie Butt, military aide and confidant to Presidents Theodore Roosevelt and William Taft, who went down with the ship. Because it was the right thing to do.
Everyone must make their own calculus.
Like the song says, you've got to walk that lonesome valley, you've got to walk it by yourself, nobody else can walk it for you.
I think I'd have tried to make a raft out of an upturned table!
I'd pay a hundred quid for either of the Pfizer or Moderna jab, no more. I'm pretty tight and in good health. I suspect I'll get Oxford around September time.
But, you have a price. That is the point.
My guess is we all do. Apart from the rare and saintly types. And there aren't many of them over 40 years old. Not with this virus
Actually think there are plenty of folks who would NOT jump at the chance to jump the line. Indeed, I actually know a few, who actually have good medical grounds for preferment but who plan to wait until the powers-that-be notify them that it's their turn.
Not saying that's a permanent position not subject to change IF there is sufficient pressure or risk. But it IS a strong inclination with some people, certainly more than a handful.
I genuinely admire these people. They are probably, but not always, acting in the better interest of the world. I do not know what I would do
I can see some morally difficult scenarios. Obviously a bachelor billionaire, with no kids, flying in his private jet to a clinic in Qatar to get the best possible vaccine for $10,000 is acting very selfishly, and probably immorally.
But let's take a.... modestly successful, working class businessman in his late 40s, with 4 kids, and very vulnerable parents, and a sister with breast cancer. He feeds them all, and they need his money. He won't get the jab until April, at the earliest, by the government calendar, and if he stops working they are in deep shit. And his work requires him to travel.
I can easily see why that man - or woman - might think: paying £1000 for a jab to jump the queue is justifiable, indeed the right thing, morally.
GP surgeries as far apart as Carnforth, north Lancashire, and Twickenham in south-west London reporting in the past few days that they cannot plan appointments more than a week ahead because they do not know what the NHS can supply them. “This is where pressure needs to be exerted on the politicians,” said David Wrigley, a GP in Carnforth and a vice-chair of the British Medical Association.
I am not sure how that is going to speed up the bottling of 14 million doses? You scream as much as your like at Boris and Hancock, that isn't going to ramp up the speed of the production line in North Wales. Both has been very forthcoming that supply is the limiting factor.
Plenty of people believe that shouting "do something" will help.
When a traffic jam develops, the people who think that honking their horns will make it all go away. Those people.
I presume they feel vindicated when the delivery driver finishes unloading the skip (or whatever) and traffic resumes it's normal flow.
"I did that", they think.
A vivid image indeed. There are unfortunately several horn honkers on PB - it's the aspect of comments that I find the most tedious.
--AS
There is nothing that a suitable employee can't fix. I wonder if this guy does requests -
Bloody hell, that's a WW2 anti-tank rifle. 14.5mm calibre. Could go through a tank very easily in the early-ish war years - in fact that was the original reason some German tanks had hang-on plates on the sides, to perturb the bullet before it got to the actual armour. How can he cope with the recoil?!
Under powered ammo would be my guess. Although due to their weight At rifles often had suprisingly modest recoil give the bullet they were firing.
Can I personally be the first to say fuck that shit.
It is bullshit reporting from The Sun.
Prof Van-Tam said during an exclusive interview with The Sun: "The pandemic has changed a lot of things. It has changed the way you and I approach hand hygiene.
"We all carry hand sanitiser around now, we all expect in most of the places we go into that hand sanitiser is provided at the door.
“I think there are going to be people who make a personal decision to say, you know what, when I’m in a crowded place in the winter I’m going to put a face covering on. When I’m on a tube I am going to put a face covering on."
However, Prof Van-Tam added that this doesn't mean this will be enforced, but rather that the mentality towards the virus has changed things.
He said: "I really don’t think the government has any intention that we should all walk around forever and a day distinguishing each other only by peering through a face covering.
“But I think individuals at different levels will choose to keep some of the infection precautionary behaviour that we have had to adopt as a matter of absolute necessity during Covid.”
He continued: "I don’t think we are ever going to take this virus away out of humankind. I think the virus is going to continue to change over time, as the disease has already shown signs of doing.
Ah, thanks for providing the expanded text
I suspect plenty of us (well me anyway) will always carry hand sanitiser and a mask upon my person on most occasions post vaccinations.
Nor am I likely to choose to stand too close to people.
Our HR department is working on a new set of rules, post vaccination, which says if people have flu like symptoms during flu season then they should work from home/get tested/something along those lines.
Your company must be backward if it’s only just designing guidelines now that people who are obviously ill shouldn’t come into the office.
I see English isn't your first language.
Well you understood my point I assume? It’s risible that you have had to ask your HR team to tell employees with a cold / the flu to stay away. With presentee cultures like that, no wonder half of London is coughing and sniffling on the Tube every winter.
If one thing changes after this it will be people staying home when they're ill rather than "powering through".
That will vary depending on their job.
Those who get immediate full sick pay will be more likely to stay off than those who don't.
Those who return to a 'full desk' will be less likely to stay off than those that don't.
History is going to judge the GOP very harshly indeed I think, there must also be a body of centre-right voters they've lost for a generation with their cowardice. The MAGAs are the base, but enough only head out for Trump to make it advantage Democrats in the next set of midterms. My prior is that the Democrats go into 2022 with the upper hand contrary to most midterms.
I disagree, Biden and the Democrats now have all the power in both the Congress and the Presidency and if they push too far in a woke direction then there will be a backlash in 2022 and the GOP will take the House again.
Many Biden voters equally will not bother to vote in the 2022 midterms as many Obama voters did not bother to vote in the 2010 midterms, Republicans however will in the usual midterm protest vote
What woke things do you fear they are going to do?
What woke things have actually been implemented by Democratic states (who set 99% of the laws in the US) that worry you particularly?
Indeed, the most woke thing the US has done at a Federal level was the expansion of sexual discrimination laws to include LBGT individuals, which was done at the Supreme Court in a judgement written by... errr... Neil Goresuch.
Already rather than pursuing an agenda of fairness and opportunity for all, white males are clearly of no interest to the Democratic leadership
History is going to judge the GOP very harshly indeed I think, there must also be a body of centre-right voters they've lost for a generation with their cowardice. The MAGAs are the base, but enough only head out for Trump to make it advantage Democrats in the next set of midterms. My prior is that the Democrats go into 2022 with the upper hand contrary to most midterms.
I disagree, Biden and the Democrats now have all the power in both the Congress and the Presidency and if they push too far in a woke direction then there will be a backlash in 2022 and the GOP will take the House again.
Many Biden voters equally will not bother to vote in the 2022 midterms as many Obama voters did not bother to vote in the 2010 midterms, Republicans however will in the usual midterm protest vote
Depends if Trump spouts off. He is a one man solution to low Democrat turnout. Maybe they should enact legislation where he they drop all charges in return for 50 choice tweets per day.
You know, I somehow missed the bit about Democrats "push too far in a woke direction".
Condemning and punishing an attempted Putsch fomented by Trumpsky & Co is NOT pushing wokeism!
THAT in fact is the line that Bloody Hands Hawley has been trying to push around, like a wheelbarrow of rotten turnips.
AND so far, all it's gotten him is DEEPER in his well-deserved hole. Sadly (for him) he forgot to bring along a septic tank.
How do you justify a wash-n-go impeachment? When he can apparently be impeached after he leaves if so desired, isn't that what should happen? I can't see a merit to it other than people having a hard on for kicking Trump.
History is going to judge the GOP very harshly indeed I think, there must also be a body of centre-right voters they've lost for a generation with their cowardice. The MAGAs are the base, but enough only head out for Trump to make it advantage Democrats in the next set of midterms. My prior is that the Democrats go into 2022 with the upper hand contrary to most midterms.
I disagree, Biden and the Democrats now have all the power in both the Congress and the Presidency and if they push too far in a woke direction then there will be a backlash in 2022 and the GOP will take the House again.
Many Biden voters equally will not bother to vote in the 2022 midterms as many Obama voters did not bother to vote in the 2010 midterms, Republicans however will in the usual midterm protest vote
Depends if Trump spouts off. He is a one man solution to low Democrat turnout. Maybe they should enact legislation where he they drop all charges in return for 50 choice tweets per day.
Democrats only turned out in the midterms when Trump was President to contain his power, when he is no longer President and Biden is they won't bother.
Republicans however will. Every President in the last 50 years has seen their party lose House seats in their first midterms with the sole exception of Dubya in 2002 because of 9/11. I doubt Biden will be an exception and the GOP need to only take 6 House seats in 2022 to get a majority.
SO do you think there is no similarity between 9/11 and last week? None?
9/11 united supporters of both parties behind President George W Bush who had a 90% approval rating in the weeks following.
Republican voters are still strongly opposed to the incoming Biden-Harris administration and on the whole most are still behind Trump.
History is going to judge the GOP very harshly indeed I think, there must also be a body of centre-right voters they've lost for a generation with their cowardice. The MAGAs are the base, but enough only head out for Trump to make it advantage Democrats in the next set of midterms. My prior is that the Democrats go into 2022 with the upper hand contrary to most midterms.
I disagree, Biden and the Democrats now have all the power in both the Congress and the Presidency and if they push too far in a woke direction then there will be a backlash in 2022 and the GOP will take the House again.
Many Biden voters equally will not bother to vote in the 2022 midterms as many Obama voters did not bother to vote in the 2010 midterms, Republicans however will in the usual midterm protest vote
Depends if Trump spouts off. He is a one man solution to low Democrat turnout. Maybe they should enact legislation where he they drop all charges in return for 50 choice tweets per day.
You know, I somehow missed the bit about Democrats "push too far in a woke direction".
Condemning and punishing an attempted Putsch fomented by Trumpsky & Co is NOT pushing wokeism!
THAT in fact is the line that Bloody Hands Hawley has been trying to push around, like a wheelbarrow of rotten turnips.
AND so far, all it's gotten him is DEEPER in his well-deserved hole. Sadly (for him) he forgot to bring along a septic tank.
How do you justify a wash-n-go impeachment? When he can apparently be impeached after he leaves if so desired, isn't that what should happen? I can't see a merit to it other than people having a hard on for kicking Trump.
Maybe because he's an immediate threat to democracy itself. If that doesn't call for swift and decisive action, what does?
GP surgeries as far apart as Carnforth, north Lancashire, and Twickenham in south-west London reporting in the past few days that they cannot plan appointments more than a week ahead because they do not know what the NHS can supply them. “This is where pressure needs to be exerted on the politicians,” said David Wrigley, a GP in Carnforth and a vice-chair of the British Medical Association.
I am not sure how that is going to speed up the bottling of 14 million doses? You scream as much as your like at Boris and Hancock, that isn't going to ramp up the speed of the production line in North Wales. Both has been very forthcoming that supply is the limiting factor.
Plenty of people believe that shouting "do something" will help.
When a traffic jam develops, the people who think that honking their horns will make it all go away. Those people.
I presume they feel vindicated when the delivery driver finishes unloading the skip (or whatever) and traffic resumes it's normal flow.
"I did that", they think.
A vivid image indeed. There are unfortunately several horn honkers on PB - it's the aspect of comments that I find the most tedious.
--AS
There is nothing that a suitable employee can't fix. I wonder if this guy does requests -
Bloody hell, that's a WW2 anti-tank rifle. 14.5mm calibre. Could go through a tank very easily in the early-ish war years - in fact that was the original reason some German tanks had hang-on plates on the sides, to perturb the bullet before it got to the actual armour. How can he cope with the recoil?!
Under powered ammo would be my guess. Although due to their weight At rifles often had suprisingly modest recoil give the bullet they were firing.
Can I personally be the first to say fuck that shit.
It is bullshit reporting from The Sun.
Prof Van-Tam said during an exclusive interview with The Sun: "The pandemic has changed a lot of things. It has changed the way you and I approach hand hygiene.
"We all carry hand sanitiser around now, we all expect in most of the places we go into that hand sanitiser is provided at the door.
“I think there are going to be people who make a personal decision to say, you know what, when I’m in a crowded place in the winter I’m going to put a face covering on. When I’m on a tube I am going to put a face covering on."
However, Prof Van-Tam added that this doesn't mean this will be enforced, but rather that the mentality towards the virus has changed things.
He said: "I really don’t think the government has any intention that we should all walk around forever and a day distinguishing each other only by peering through a face covering.
“But I think individuals at different levels will choose to keep some of the infection precautionary behaviour that we have had to adopt as a matter of absolute necessity during Covid.”
He continued: "I don’t think we are ever going to take this virus away out of humankind. I think the virus is going to continue to change over time, as the disease has already shown signs of doing.
Ah, thanks for providing the expanded text
I suspect plenty of us (well me anyway) will always carry hand sanitiser and a mask upon my person on most occasions post vaccinations.
Nor am I likely to choose to stand too close to people.
Our HR department is working on a new set of rules, post vaccination, which says if people have flu like symptoms during flu season then they should work from home/get tested/something along those lines.
Your company must be backward if it’s only just designing guidelines now that people who are obviously ill shouldn’t come into the office.
I see English isn't your first language.
Well you understood my point I assume? It’s risible that you have had to ask your HR team to tell employees with a cold / the flu to stay away. With presentee cultures like that, no wonder half of London is coughing and sniffling on the Tube every winter.
If one thing changes after this it will be people staying home when they're ill rather than "powering through".
That will vary depending on their job.
Those who get immediate full sick pay will be more likely to stay off than those who don't.
Those who return to a 'full desk' will be less likely to stay off than those that don't.
I once had to tell five people in my office to go home to bed and/or work from home. Came in one winter morning to see them all coughing and spluttering. I was absolutely gross. I dearly hope we have seen the end of such presenteeism.
I'd pay a hundred quid for either of the Pfizer or Moderna jab, no more. I'm pretty tight and in good health. I suspect I'll get Oxford around September time.
But, you have a price. That is the point.
My guess is we all do. Apart from the rare and saintly types. And there aren't many of them over 40 years old. Not with this virus
Just catching up on this thread, and getting depressed. The idea that the rich should be able to use their wealth to jump the vaccine queue is, in my view, immoral - but it's what we've come to expect. And I'm well over 40, and no saint, and yes I could afford it I guess.
If folk have money to spare, why not wait their turn for a vaccine and give their spare money to a food bank or people struggling through tough Covid days?
Finally - I believe you're a fiction writer. Your Corbyn-loving hypocrite is, I would suggest, a work of fiction.
I am not a fiction writer, but what is true is what I wrote: my Corbyn loving hypocrite is very real and that is what she said. About three hours ago. Deny it if you wish. Indeed, I just got off the phone with her! (we have moved on to discussing juicy gossip about mutual friends - I am not going to criticise her for this, she's a pal)
Coming on here with elaborately fake anecdotes to back up a PB bullet point would be, to me. about the most pointlessly dreary task in the world. Life is too short. Whatever. Believe what you like
GP surgeries as far apart as Carnforth, north Lancashire, and Twickenham in south-west London reporting in the past few days that they cannot plan appointments more than a week ahead because they do not know what the NHS can supply them. “This is where pressure needs to be exerted on the politicians,” said David Wrigley, a GP in Carnforth and a vice-chair of the British Medical Association.
I am not sure how that is going to speed up the bottling of 14 million doses? You scream as much as your like at Boris and Hancock, that isn't going to ramp up the speed of the production line in North Wales. Both has been very forthcoming that supply is the limiting factor.
Plenty of people believe that shouting "do something" will help.
When a traffic jam develops, the people who think that honking their horns will make it all go away. Those people.
I presume they feel vindicated when the delivery driver finishes unloading the skip (or whatever) and traffic resumes it's normal flow.
"I did that", they think.
A vivid image indeed. There are unfortunately several horn honkers on PB - it's the aspect of comments that I find the most tedious.
--AS
There is nothing that a suitable employee can't fix. I wonder if this guy does requests -
Bloody hell, that's a WW2 anti-tank rifle. 14.5mm calibre. Could go through a tank very easily in the early-ish war years - in fact that was the original reason some German tanks had hang-on plates on the sides, to perturb the bullet before it got to the actual armour. How can he cope with the recoil?!
Under powered ammo would be my guess. Although due to their weight At rifles often had suprisingly modest recoil give the bullet they were firing.
Can I personally be the first to say fuck that shit.
It is bullshit reporting from The Sun.
Prof Van-Tam said during an exclusive interview with The Sun: "The pandemic has changed a lot of things. It has changed the way you and I approach hand hygiene.
"We all carry hand sanitiser around now, we all expect in most of the places we go into that hand sanitiser is provided at the door.
“I think there are going to be people who make a personal decision to say, you know what, when I’m in a crowded place in the winter I’m going to put a face covering on. When I’m on a tube I am going to put a face covering on."
However, Prof Van-Tam added that this doesn't mean this will be enforced, but rather that the mentality towards the virus has changed things.
He said: "I really don’t think the government has any intention that we should all walk around forever and a day distinguishing each other only by peering through a face covering.
“But I think individuals at different levels will choose to keep some of the infection precautionary behaviour that we have had to adopt as a matter of absolute necessity during Covid.”
He continued: "I don’t think we are ever going to take this virus away out of humankind. I think the virus is going to continue to change over time, as the disease has already shown signs of doing.
Ah, thanks for providing the expanded text
I suspect plenty of us (well me anyway) will always carry hand sanitiser and a mask upon my person on most occasions post vaccinations.
Nor am I likely to choose to stand too close to people.
Our HR department is working on a new set of rules, post vaccination, which says if people have flu like symptoms during flu season then they should work from home/get tested/something along those lines.
Your company must be backward if it’s only just designing guidelines now that people who are obviously ill shouldn’t come into the office.
I see English isn't your first language.
Well you understood my point I assume? It’s risible that you have had to ask your HR team to tell employees with a cold / the flu to stay away. With presentee cultures like that, no wonder half of London is coughing and sniffling on the Tube every winter.
If one thing changes after this it will be people staying home when they're ill rather than "powering through".
That will vary depending on their job.
Those who get immediate full sick pay will be more likely to stay off than those who don't.
Those who return to a 'full desk' will be less likely to stay off than those that don't.
I once had to tell five people in my office to go home to bed and/or work from home. Came in one winter morning to see them all coughing and spluttering. I was absolutely gross. I dearly hope we have seen the end of such presenteeism.
It comes from both sides. People worrying they are indispensible is a thing, but others are worried about getting in trouble for not showing up, and they are right to worry even if employers officially say don't come in when ill. So the culture will need to change all over.
Really? After months of divisive talk, after instigating a riot and not being contrite about it afterwards, he promises to be a good boy and that means punishment is not needed?
Obviously this is Trump's strategy and it could well work given it was already tough to get to 17 Senators, but my god Lindsey Graham, you could dial it down a notch to maintain some dignity.
Thank goodness talk of coming together afterwords totally makes up for actions beforehand.
GP surgeries as far apart as Carnforth, north Lancashire, and Twickenham in south-west London reporting in the past few days that they cannot plan appointments more than a week ahead because they do not know what the NHS can supply them. “This is where pressure needs to be exerted on the politicians,” said David Wrigley, a GP in Carnforth and a vice-chair of the British Medical Association.
I am not sure how that is going to speed up the bottling of 14 million doses? You scream as much as your like at Boris and Hancock, that isn't going to ramp up the speed of the production line in North Wales. Both has been very forthcoming that supply is the limiting factor.
Plenty of people believe that shouting "do something" will help.
When a traffic jam develops, the people who think that honking their horns will make it all go away. Those people.
I presume they feel vindicated when the delivery driver finishes unloading the skip (or whatever) and traffic resumes it's normal flow.
"I did that", they think.
A vivid image indeed. There are unfortunately several horn honkers on PB - it's the aspect of comments that I find the most tedious.
--AS
There is nothing that a suitable employee can't fix. I wonder if this guy does requests -
Bloody hell, that's a WW2 anti-tank rifle. 14.5mm calibre. Could go through a tank very easily in the early-ish war years - in fact that was the original reason some German tanks had hang-on plates on the sides, to perturb the bullet before it got to the actual armour. How can he cope with the recoil?!
Under powered ammo would be my guess. Although due to their weight At rifles often had suprisingly modest recoil give the bullet they were firing.
Can I personally be the first to say fuck that shit.
It is bullshit reporting from The Sun.
Prof Van-Tam said during an exclusive interview with The Sun: "The pandemic has changed a lot of things. It has changed the way you and I approach hand hygiene.
"We all carry hand sanitiser around now, we all expect in most of the places we go into that hand sanitiser is provided at the door.
“I think there are going to be people who make a personal decision to say, you know what, when I’m in a crowded place in the winter I’m going to put a face covering on. When I’m on a tube I am going to put a face covering on."
However, Prof Van-Tam added that this doesn't mean this will be enforced, but rather that the mentality towards the virus has changed things.
He said: "I really don’t think the government has any intention that we should all walk around forever and a day distinguishing each other only by peering through a face covering.
“But I think individuals at different levels will choose to keep some of the infection precautionary behaviour that we have had to adopt as a matter of absolute necessity during Covid.”
He continued: "I don’t think we are ever going to take this virus away out of humankind. I think the virus is going to continue to change over time, as the disease has already shown signs of doing.
Ah, thanks for providing the expanded text
I suspect plenty of us (well me anyway) will always carry hand sanitiser and a mask upon my person on most occasions post vaccinations.
Nor am I likely to choose to stand too close to people.
Our HR department is working on a new set of rules, post vaccination, which says if people have flu like symptoms during flu season then they should work from home/get tested/something along those lines.
Your company must be backward if it’s only just designing guidelines now that people who are obviously ill shouldn’t come into the office.
I see English isn't your first language.
Well you understood my point I assume? It’s risible that you have had to ask your HR team to tell employees with a cold / the flu to stay away. With presentee cultures like that, no wonder half of London is coughing and sniffling on the Tube every winter.
If one thing changes after this it will be people staying home when they're ill rather than "powering through".
That will vary depending on their job.
Those who get immediate full sick pay will be more likely to stay off than those who don't.
Those who return to a 'full desk' will be less likely to stay off than those that don't.
I once had to tell five people in my office to go home to bed and/or work from home. Came in one winter morning to see them all coughing and spluttering. I was absolutely gross. I dearly hope we have seen the end of such presenteeism.
It comes from both sides. People worrying they are indispensible is a thing, but others are worried about getting in trouble for not showing up, and they are right to worry even if employers officially say don't come in when ill. So the culture will need to change all over.
There's people worrying they are indispensible, and there's people worrying they might be found to be dispensable.
It is the switch to allowing home working that will change this. If you can sneeze at the cat instead of your co-workers, why wouldn't you?
GP surgeries as far apart as Carnforth, north Lancashire, and Twickenham in south-west London reporting in the past few days that they cannot plan appointments more than a week ahead because they do not know what the NHS can supply them. “This is where pressure needs to be exerted on the politicians,” said David Wrigley, a GP in Carnforth and a vice-chair of the British Medical Association.
I am not sure how that is going to speed up the bottling of 14 million doses? You scream as much as your like at Boris and Hancock, that isn't going to ramp up the speed of the production line in North Wales. Both has been very forthcoming that supply is the limiting factor.
Plenty of people believe that shouting "do something" will help.
When a traffic jam develops, the people who think that honking their horns will make it all go away. Those people.
I presume they feel vindicated when the delivery driver finishes unloading the skip (or whatever) and traffic resumes it's normal flow.
"I did that", they think.
A vivid image indeed. There are unfortunately several horn honkers on PB - it's the aspect of comments that I find the most tedious.
--AS
There is nothing that a suitable employee can't fix. I wonder if this guy does requests -
Bloody hell, that's a WW2 anti-tank rifle. 14.5mm calibre. Could go through a tank very easily in the early-ish war years - in fact that was the original reason some German tanks had hang-on plates on the sides, to perturb the bullet before it got to the actual armour. How can he cope with the recoil?!
Under powered ammo would be my guess. Although due to their weight At rifles often had suprisingly modest recoil give the bullet they were firing.
Can I personally be the first to say fuck that shit.
It is bullshit reporting from The Sun.
Prof Van-Tam said during an exclusive interview with The Sun: "The pandemic has changed a lot of things. It has changed the way you and I approach hand hygiene.
"We all carry hand sanitiser around now, we all expect in most of the places we go into that hand sanitiser is provided at the door.
“I think there are going to be people who make a personal decision to say, you know what, when I’m in a crowded place in the winter I’m going to put a face covering on. When I’m on a tube I am going to put a face covering on."
However, Prof Van-Tam added that this doesn't mean this will be enforced, but rather that the mentality towards the virus has changed things.
He said: "I really don’t think the government has any intention that we should all walk around forever and a day distinguishing each other only by peering through a face covering.
“But I think individuals at different levels will choose to keep some of the infection precautionary behaviour that we have had to adopt as a matter of absolute necessity during Covid.”
He continued: "I don’t think we are ever going to take this virus away out of humankind. I think the virus is going to continue to change over time, as the disease has already shown signs of doing.
Ah, thanks for providing the expanded text
I suspect plenty of us (well me anyway) will always carry hand sanitiser and a mask upon my person on most occasions post vaccinations.
Nor am I likely to choose to stand too close to people.
Our HR department is working on a new set of rules, post vaccination, which says if people have flu like symptoms during flu season then they should work from home/get tested/something along those lines.
Your company must be backward if it’s only just designing guidelines now that people who are obviously ill shouldn’t come into the office.
I see English isn't your first language.
Well you understood my point I assume? It’s risible that you have had to ask your HR team to tell employees with a cold / the flu to stay away. With presentee cultures like that, no wonder half of London is coughing and sniffling on the Tube every winter.
If one thing changes after this it will be people staying home when they're ill rather than "powering through".
That will vary depending on their job.
Those who get immediate full sick pay will be more likely to stay off than those who don't.
Those who return to a 'full desk' will be less likely to stay off than those that don't.
I once had to tell five people in my office to go home to bed and/or work from home. Came in one winter morning to see them all coughing and spluttering. I was absolutely gross. I dearly hope we have seen the end of such presenteeism.
It comes from both sides. People worrying they are indispensible is a thing, but others are worried about getting in trouble for not showing up, and they are right to worry even if employers officially say don't come in when ill. So the culture will need to change all over.
There's people worrying they are indispensible, and there's people worrying they might be found to be dispensable.
It is the switch to allowing home working that will change this. If you can sneeze at the cat instead of your co-workers, why wouldn't you?
Home working would dramatically reduce it, though people shouldn't be working when ill regardless. Thinking they have to the latter even from home will also be a thing.
Just watched a few episodes of Spiral. I like French TV, but couldn't get into this. PB's discussion on cheese and Trump more interesting.
It's a bit Marmite. I love it. Partner can't abide. And we generally see eye to eye on TV. There is a 15 year back story to contend with too. It doesn't do exposition.
I like to try and follow it in French (I'm not good enough to be able to get it all with no subtitles but I can understand most if I'm concentrating. But this was harder as the voices didn't seem to be loud and using clear diction - probably because this was more 'gritty and real' than the previous French potboiler dramas I've seen on catch up.
History is going to judge the GOP very harshly indeed I think, there must also be a body of centre-right voters they've lost for a generation with their cowardice. The MAGAs are the base, but enough only head out for Trump to make it advantage Democrats in the next set of midterms. My prior is that the Democrats go into 2022 with the upper hand contrary to most midterms.
I disagree, Biden and the Democrats now have all the power in both the Congress and the Presidency and if they push too far in a woke direction then there will be a backlash in 2022 and the GOP will take the House again.
Many Biden voters equally will not bother to vote in the 2022 midterms as many Obama voters did not bother to vote in the 2010 midterms, Republicans however will in the usual midterm protest vote
Depends if Trump spouts off. He is a one man solution to low Democrat turnout. Maybe they should enact legislation where he they drop all charges in return for 50 choice tweets per day.
Democrats only turned out in the midterms when Trump was President to contain his power, when he is no longer President and Biden is they won't bother.
Republicans however will. Every President in the last 50 years has seen their party lose House seats in their first midterms with the sole exception of Dubya in 2002 because of 9/11. I doubt Biden will be an exception and the GOP need to only take 6 House seats in 2022 to get a majority.
SO do you think there is no similarity between 9/11 and last week? None?
9/11 united supporters of both parties behind President George W Bush who had a 90% approval rating in the weeks following.
Republican voters are still strongly opposed to the incoming Biden-Harris administration and on the whole most are still behind Trump.
So no, the 2 are not comparable
Perhaps you have forgotten - or maybe just do NOT care to remember at this time - that one of the prime targets of 9/11 attack was - wait for it - the US Capitol?
Politico.com Capitol insurrection may have claimed its first GOP candidacy Doug Steinhardt's candidacy [for Gov of NJ] could be among the first in the country ended by the events of Jan. 6.
History is going to judge the GOP very harshly indeed I think, there must also be a body of centre-right voters they've lost for a generation with their cowardice. The MAGAs are the base, but enough only head out for Trump to make it advantage Democrats in the next set of midterms. My prior is that the Democrats go into 2022 with the upper hand contrary to most midterms.
I disagree, Biden and the Democrats now have all the power in both the Congress and the Presidency and if they push too far in a woke direction then there will be a backlash in 2022 and the GOP will take the House again.
Many Biden voters equally will not bother to vote in the 2022 midterms as many Obama voters did not bother to vote in the 2010 midterms, Republicans however will in the usual midterm protest vote
Depends if Trump spouts off. He is a one man solution to low Democrat turnout. Maybe they should enact legislation where he they drop all charges in return for 50 choice tweets per day.
Democrats only turned out in the midterms when Trump was President to contain his power, when he is no longer President and Biden is they won't bother.
Republicans however will. Every President in the last 50 years has seen their party lose House seats in their first midterms with the sole exception of Dubya in 2002 because of 9/11. I doubt Biden will be an exception and the GOP need to only take 6 House seats in 2022 to get a majority.
SO do you think there is no similarity between 9/11 and last week? None?
9/11 united supporters of both parties behind President George W Bush who had a 90% approval rating in the weeks following.
Republican voters are still strongly opposed to the incoming Biden-Harris administration and on the whole most are still behind Trump.
So no, the 2 are not comparable
Perhaps you have forgotten - or maybe just do NOT care to remember at this time - that one of the prime targets of 9/11 attack was - wait for it - the US Capitol?
Question: how many PBers would pay a large sum of cash - say £1000+ - to get the jab privately?
This will soon be a moral dilemma for all of us. It is coming.
I was amazed when I asked this of a Corbynite novelist friend of mine today. She's pretty ultra-left. I've heard her denouncing private medicine (private anything) before. She said God yes, I'd pay it today, where is it?
All her principles out the window, just like that
I think that situation only arises if they start vaccinating 24 hours with the night time vaccinations being available to anyone for payment.
Why? Pfizer and Moderna (at least) are absolutely private companies seeking a profit. Imagine a large private health company says "We have tens of thousands of wealthy clients around the world, mainly in LA, NYC, London, and Paris, all willing to pay $1000 per jab. We are therefore willing to pay $500 a jab rather than $30 a jab. Please give us 50,000"
Will Pfizer really ignore this easy and massive profit? I doubt it.
According to reports, the reason Israel is doing so well is because their government privately paid LOADS of money per Pfizer jab, very early on.
Money talks. And saves lives.
I doubt it was the money that made Israel first - agreeing to provide side effect and other data back from the largest sample is what will have made Israel priority 1.
Bless, You think an unexpected early deal between - cough - Israel- - and - cough - Pfizer - was made on the basis of the sharing of medical data?
Israel. And. Pfizer.
Hm.
Or the deal was made because Israel agreed to pay BILLIONS over the odds to secure the global life-raft of the Jewish people? Colour me cynical, but I suspect a large amount of money played a significant role
Erm, more than a few tropes in that post. I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt.
I do not believe it is an anti-Semitic trope to say that the Israeli government is singularly and literally determined on the preservation of the Jewish people. That is why it exists. The Holocaust showed that Jews were not safe in "civilised Europe". Hence, Israel. Therefore, the Jewish state will pay way over the odds to secure a vaccine that saves Jews, early on, from a potentially calamitous virus.
If they have the money to vaccinate Israelis first, they will pay it. I see Bahrain is doing the same, without any public fuss.
At the same time, Pfizer and Moderna are capitalist companies legally obligated to seek a profit, by their shareholders.
There is no trope here. This is the way of the world. Perhaps it should not be so, but that is not my argument.
If the fact that Israel is a Jewish state is neither here nor there, why even go on about it? Why would you be saying Israel cough cough Pfizer? Do you know that the CEO of Pfizer is Jewish? I can't think what else the cough cough would be referencing other than something pretty tawdry.
Are you an antisemite?
Short answer: no
Long answer: fuck off, and no
I think it's a perfectly natural question to come to, and it seems that I'm not the only one looking askance at your comments. Let me put it this way. Antisemites do exist, and they say the sorts of things you did in that Pfizer-Israel post. If you are not antisemitic, I'm at a bit of a loss to imagine what was behind your post.
Fascinating. Not.
Just parking this here, in case anyone feels that a reminder would be useful.
"Making mendacious, dehumanizing, demonizing, or stereotypical allegations about Jews as such or the power of Jews as collective — such as, especially but not exclusively, the myth about a world Jewish conspiracy or of Jews controlling the media, economy, government or other societal institutions."
I feel bad for him - kings aren't even allowed to order 'off with their heads' anymore.
Or in the case of Belgian kings, hands.
That sounds like the incident in 2010 when student rioters smashed a window in the car with Prince Charles and Camilla in Regent Street, and attacked it with staves. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11978954
Immunological characteristics govern the transition of COVID-19 to endemicity https://science.sciencemag.org/content/early/2021/01/11/science.abe6522 We are currently faced with the question of how the CoV-2 severity may change in the years ahead. Our analysis of immunological and epidemiological data on endemic human coronaviruses (HCoVs) shows that infection-blocking immunity wanes rapidly, but disease-reducing immunity is long-lived. Our model, incorporating these components of immunity, recapitulates both the current severity of CoV-2 and the benign nature of HCoVs, suggesting that once the endemic phase is reached and primary exposure is in childhood, CoV-2 may be no more virulent than the common cold. We predict a different outcome for an emergent coronavirus that causes severe disease in children. These results reinforce the importance of behavioral containment during pandemic vaccine rollout, while prompting us to evaluate scenarios for continuing vaccination in the endemic phase.
Of course reaching endemicity will be very painful indeed unless the world does so via vaccination rather than the continuing spread of infection.
This was interesting on the already circulating “common cold” coronaviruses endemic around the world: ... We reanalyze a detailed dataset that estimates age-specific seroprevalence based on both IgM (acute response) and IgG (long-term memory) against all four circulating HCoVs in children and adults (10) to estimate parameter ranges for transmission and waning of immunity (see Fig. 1A). The rapid rise in both IgM and IgG seroprevalence indicates that primary infection with all four endemic HCoV strains happens early in life, and our analysis of these data gives us an estimate for the mean age of primary infection (MAPI) between 3.4 and 5.1 years, with almost everyone infected by age 15 (see SM section 1 for details). The absence of detectable IgM titers in any individual over the age of 15 years suggests reinfections of adults causes a recall response, indicating that while CoV specific immunity may wane it is not lost. Whether immunity would wane to naïve levels in the absence of high pathogen circulation remains an open question...
FPT. BluestBlue said: 'BBB is very low these days, no matter what the school. But one would hope that the candidates admitted with those grades also excelled in the subject-specific admissions tests set by the university, since those are often a finer discriminator than A-level grades. ' I don't really disagree - though my mind goes back to my own schooldays in the early 1970s when a friend was admitted to St Edmund Hall to read Modern Languages having obtained A Level grades of BBD in French, German & English respectively in his June 72 exams.He sat the Entrance Exam in late 1972 and began his studies at Oxford in October 1973.Apparently he came close to gaining an Exhibition. It was obviously a very different era - with A Level grades awarded on the basis of Relative rather than the Absolute marking used since the late 1980s. My friend's grades today would surely be AAB - whilst those now being awarded BBB would have done no better than DDD at that time!
Comments
(1) because it should have resulted in a substantial drop in infection rates when combined with the current lockdown
(2) because we never had a New York style experience, and even there antibody tests only indicated about one-in-five Manhattanites had gotten CV19
(3) from an anecdotal basis, I know two people currently seriously ill with CV19 (both in the UK, one a man in his 50s, the other a woman in her 80s), and two people who have it but not seriously (one in the UK, one in Iowa). I don't know anyone in LA who currently has it.
Too often we've (and I count myself guilty of this) overestimated how many people have had the disease.
20% is possible though.
On unrelated point if the vaccine people could come up with a cure for my hayfever that would be great.
Not saying that's a permanent position not subject to change IF there is sufficient pressure or risk. But it IS a strong inclination with some people, certainly more than a handful.
Long answer: fuck off, and no
Could affect mortality rates.
Many Biden voters equally will not bother to vote in the 2022 midterms as many Obama voters did not bother to vote in the 2010 midterms, Republicans however will in the usual midterm protest vote
If you are not antisemitic, I'm at a bit of a loss to imagine what was behind your post.
If folk have money to spare, why not wait their turn for a vaccine and give their spare money to a food bank or people struggling through tough Covid days?
Finally - I believe you're a fiction writer. Your Corbyn-loving hypocrite is, I would suggest, a work of fiction.
We had existing rules in place, we're now updating them for a post vaccine and mutating Covid-19 world.
What woke things have actually been implemented by Democratic states (who set 99% of the laws in the US) that worry you particularly?
Indeed, the most woke thing the US has done at a Federal level was the expansion of sexual discrimination laws to include LBGT individuals, which was done at the Supreme Court in a judgement written by... errr... Neil Goresuch.
I can see some morally difficult scenarios. Obviously a bachelor billionaire, with no kids, flying in his private jet to a clinic in Qatar to get the best possible vaccine for $10,000 is acting very selfishly, and probably immorally.
But let's take a.... modestly successful, working class businessman in his late 40s, with 4 kids, and very vulnerable parents, and a sister with breast cancer. He feeds them all, and they need his money. He won't get the jab until April, at the earliest, by the government calendar, and if he stops working they are in deep shit. And his work requires him to travel.
I can easily see why that man - or woman - might think: paying £1000 for a jab to jump the queue is justifiable, indeed the right thing, morally.
Is he wrong?
Though it remains to be seen if vaccination is still protective against severe disease, should any of these variants evade immunity (which also remains to be seen).
What a crock of Trump!
There is a 15 year back story to contend with too. It doesn't do exposition.
Probably just the circles that Leon inhabits.
https://twitter.com/Climatologist49/status/1180275098613272576
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-55656138
He is a one man solution to low Democrat turnout. Maybe they should enact legislation where he they drop all charges in return for 50 choice tweets per day.
Sort of reminds me of the male first-class passengers on the Titanic, who instead of crowding the life boats, retired to the bar for a few final snifters and cigars. For example, Archie Butt, military aide and confidant to Presidents Theodore Roosevelt and William Taft, who went down with the ship. Because it was the right thing to do.
Everyone must make their own calculus.
Like the song says, you've got to walk that lonesome valley, you've got to walk it by yourself, nobody else can walk it for you.
They thought they’d be “letting the team down” by coming into the office.
Quite the opposite.
https://twitter.com/dpjhodges/status/1060800035561136129?s=21
Republicans however will. Every President in the last 50 years has seen their party lose House seats in their first midterms with the sole exception of Dubya in 2002 because of 9/11. I doubt Biden will be an exception and the GOP need to only take 6 House seats in 2022 to get a majority.
Condemning and punishing an attempted Putsch fomented by Trumpsky & Co is NOT pushing wokeism!
THAT in fact is the line that Bloody Hands Hawley has been trying to push around, like a wheelbarrow of rotten turnips.
AND so far, all it's gotten him is DEEPER in his well-deserved hole. Sadly (for him) he forgot to bring along a septic tank.
And positively glorying in the fact.
Not sure we who benefit ought to be pearl clutching.
We live under capitalism not socialism after all.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7252012/
I think this has been a question before - did our current cold viruses have a deadlier past? There's a suggestion that a pandemic from the late 1800s was one of them.
If the article is right then I would imagine we'll have a number of vaccine escapes and seasonal problems before eventually this thing evolves to become a lot less deadly. Unfortunately that means it isn't going away soon.
On the question of paying for a vaccine, I'd probably do it. Although all those I'm propping up will be themselves vaccinated by tomorrow, there's still the issue of becoming incapacitated for an unknown period.
If the government had a two week period auctioning off slots once they've done all the 70 year olds before resuming the priority list, I wonder how much they could raise?
Those who get immediate full sick pay will be more likely to stay off than those who don't.
Those who return to a 'full desk' will be less likely to stay off than those that don't.
https://twitter.com/Transition46/status/1348403213200990209?s=20
https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1348066295066062856?s=20
Republican voters are still strongly opposed to the incoming Biden-Harris administration and on the whole most are still behind Trump.
So no, the 2 are not comparable
If that doesn't call for swift and decisive action, what does?
Coming on here with elaborately fake anecdotes to back up a PB bullet point would be, to me. about the most pointlessly dreary task in the world. Life is too short. Whatever. Believe what you like
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55656589
https://twitter.com/LindseyGrahamSC/status/1349508362355011587?s=20
Really? After months of divisive talk, after instigating a riot and not being contrite about it afterwards, he promises to be a good boy and that means punishment is not needed?
Obviously this is Trump's strategy and it could well work given it was already tough to get to 17 Senators, but my god Lindsey Graham, you could dial it down a notch to maintain some dignity.
Thank goodness talk of coming together afterwords totally makes up for actions beforehand.
It is the switch to allowing home working that will change this. If you can sneeze at the cat instead of your co-workers, why wouldn't you?
The Biden comment is a cheap shot as Biden has already said it’s a matter for Congress.
https://twitter.com/DuncanWeldon/status/1349399563346599940?s=20
He really ought to be able to say I told you so, but instead he's become the biggest kiss arse of all.
https://twitter.com/lindseygrahamsc/status/727604522156228608
It always was moving to a pat Hollywood ending, but it was engaging and moving all along the way. It was brilliant overall.
Politico.com
Capitol insurrection may have claimed its first GOP candidacy
Doug Steinhardt's candidacy [for Gov of NJ] could be among the first in the country ended by the events of Jan. 6.
https://www.politico.com/news/2021/01/13/capitol-insurrection-gop-candidacy-458882
He has always been a Trumpist.
He just denies it.
"Making mendacious, dehumanizing, demonizing, or stereotypical allegations about Jews as such or the power of Jews as collective — such as, especially but not exclusively, the myth about a world Jewish conspiracy or of Jews controlling the media, economy, government or other societal institutions."
Oh, Rich White Woman who nobody asks
why do your peddle your wokeness in masks?
https://twitter.com/jack/status/1349510776386580482?s=21
That is all you need to know.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11978954
https://science.sciencemag.org/content/early/2021/01/11/science.abe6522
We are currently faced with the question of how the CoV-2 severity may change in the years ahead. Our analysis of immunological and epidemiological data on endemic human coronaviruses (HCoVs) shows that infection-blocking immunity wanes rapidly, but disease-reducing immunity is long-lived. Our model, incorporating these components of immunity, recapitulates both the current severity of CoV-2 and the benign nature of HCoVs, suggesting that once the endemic phase is reached and primary exposure is in childhood, CoV-2 may be no more virulent than the common cold. We predict a different outcome for an emergent coronavirus that causes severe disease in children. These results reinforce the importance of behavioral containment during pandemic vaccine rollout, while prompting us to evaluate scenarios for continuing vaccination in the endemic phase.
Of course reaching endemicity will be very painful indeed unless the world does so via vaccination rather than the continuing spread of infection.
This was interesting on the already circulating “common cold” coronaviruses endemic around the world:
... We reanalyze a detailed dataset that estimates age-specific seroprevalence based on both IgM (acute response) and IgG (long-term memory) against all four circulating HCoVs in children and adults (10) to estimate parameter ranges for transmission and waning of immunity (see Fig. 1A). The rapid rise in both IgM and IgG seroprevalence indicates that primary infection with all four endemic HCoV strains happens early in life, and our analysis of these data gives us an estimate for the mean age of primary infection (MAPI) between 3.4 and 5.1 years, with almost everyone infected by age 15 (see SM section 1 for details). The absence of detectable IgM titers in any individual over the age of 15 years suggests reinfections of adults causes a recall response, indicating that while CoV specific immunity may wane it is not lost. Whether immunity would wane to naïve levels in the absence of high pathogen circulation remains an open question...
BluestBlue said:
'BBB is very low these days, no matter what the school. But one would hope that the candidates admitted with those grades also excelled in the subject-specific admissions tests set by the university, since those are often a finer discriminator than A-level grades. '
I don't really disagree - though my mind goes back to my own schooldays in the early 1970s when a friend was admitted to St Edmund Hall to read Modern Languages having obtained A Level grades of BBD in French, German & English respectively in his June 72 exams.He sat the Entrance Exam in late 1972 and began his studies at Oxford in October 1973.Apparently he came close to gaining an Exhibition.
It was obviously a very different era - with A Level grades awarded on the basis of Relative rather than the Absolute marking used since the late 1980s. My friend's grades today would surely be AAB - whilst those now being awarded BBB would have done no better than DDD at that time!