Why are we even discussing this? Transmitting Covid whilst riding a bike would be quite a challenge, whether it be 5, 7 or 20 miles. Who cares?
Shouldn`t we focus on basement parties and covert bars - you know, those indoor groupy things?
I would have thought, given the depth and regularity of breathing involved, plus 5e energetic expulsion of air from lungs, that it would actually be rather easy to spread Covid while riding a bike.
I don't know either way, and I'm not suggesting that we should create unnecessary problems for cyclists - if cycling is thought by scientists to be pretty safe from spreading infection, then let's include an exemption in the rules - "You can cycle as far as you like so long as you don't ghet off and walk around in another area" or whatever. Perhaps, if it's safe, we can use the opportunity to promote cycling. But don't make up an ambiguous rule and then appear to flout it.
LOL.
Here speaks the keep it simple man.
"CYCLIST IN ARRESTED FOR HAVING A PEE BEHIND A TREE SHOCKER"
I'm trying to work out whether a man could have a pee without getting off his bike, and it's hurting my brain.
In Ireland there is a clear simple rule - exercise within 5km of home. There are even a couple of parks within 5km of Johnson's town house.
The simple rule in Ireland hasn't stopped them from having a worse infection rate, though. I'd rather the media were putting time and attention into the issue of schools - are the numbers at school still high enough to be a large source of virus spread? - and doubtless other more important issues I haven't heard about.
Even covering the vaccination progress as good news would be worthwhile. It would give people hope that a modest period of self-restraint would be a step towards ending this thing.
The problem with a "simple" rule like that is it would mean many people having to exercise where it is busy. Or dangerous due to traffic and/or a dodgy area at night. Also, as exercise is for mental health rather than just physical, there is some need for people to get some variety. The once a day thing is annoying me as it means I can't go for a walk at lunchtime as well as a run in the evening but I will stick to it.
Scotland allows travel for exercise up to five miles outside the council area, as long as the exercise starts and stops where you went and that exercise is all you do. Basically so that people in the cities can get out into the surrounding hills.
It's obviously meant for going in a car, but they don't want to openly discriminate against people without, so I suppose you could also go by public transport. That does not seem a good idea though.
The difficulty is I hope they are starting with the premise of what legislation can I enact which would not discriminate against someone on the 12th floor of an urban tower block, who has no means of transport other than public transport.
A noble aim, if that is what is going on, but fraught with practical difficulties, as we are seeing.
Why did BoZo cycle round a park 7 miles from his residence?
To reinforce the STAY AT HOME message...
Your persistence makes it seem like he should never leave the house at all. 7m is not that much, find another thing to criticise, there must be plenty to choose from.
I have a whole list of criticisms of Johnson, happy to share if anyone is struggling
But I'll not criticise him for this or - so far, at least - for the UK vaccine procurement (well done) and delivery (seems to be fairly good so far)
Boris never leaves us short of things to criticise, which is why faux outrage and arguments over 7m being local or not is so weird.
It's not like hes finally slipped up and given us the opportunity, the wily, disciplined devil. He stumbles his words, u turns or messes up a policy most weeks.
If people are still bringing this up come next week it will tell me they must think hes doing a good job as they cannot think of anything else to go on.
And yet bar a few things hes not doing a good job.
In all this 'chaff' about rule making/keeping/breaking one thing stands out. Every morning I have a look at the BBC's 'The Papers' and once upon a time the Star had a nonsense headline just about every day. Now it's relentlessly mocking the PM. Yes, I know the Star has a minuscule readership, but it's still there, and, when (if) it's readers vote, the idea of being led by a clown might not appeal. To most anyway. I also note that the once unqualified support for the Tories from the Mail's headline writers seems to be evaporating.
Mail under Remain supporting editor have been one of the most critical of the government covid handling. Even Monday, when basically every other paper had fairly good headline for government over vaccine roll out, they had Betrayal.....care home residents not been vaccinated quickly enough.
Another example of ascribing motivation to the Remain/Leave divide where there is no obvious reason to do so.
The Mail's stance on Covid is much more likely to be motivated by the fact that everyone, even Mail Tory loyalists, can see that Johnson's performance has been dire, perhaps the worst of any world leader aside from Trump. Remain/leave has nothing to do with it.
No it is well known the editor has been a strong critic of Boris / Brexit. We used to see it when Monday to Saturday Mail supportive of government, Sunday (edited by him) laying into everything Brexit / Boris. He is like Scott n Paste.
The fact the government handling has been poor is absolutely fair criticism. But I gave a specific example where even a decent day for the government, they found a negative headline (which turned out to be pretty false).
My point isn't that the Mail is critical of the government, that's fine, just pointing out the new management is far from the big cheerleaders of current Tories they were under Dacre. But it isn't that it is evaporating now, it has been the case for a long time (while trying to walk tightrope that the readership isn't as hostile).
There is no world in which Johnson, 56, is in his "early 50s".
Fuck off. I`m 56 and I am.
I'm 60 in 12 days, and I still consider myself in my early 50s.
Happy birthday. I have to point out, though, that when you hit 60 you are then firmly in your mid 50s.
LADY BRACKNELL: "Thirty-five is a very attractive age. London society is full of women of the very highest birth who have, of their own free choice, remained thirty-five for years. Lady Dumbleton is an instance in point. To my own knowledge she has been thirty-five ever since she arrived at the age of forty, which was many years ago now.”
FFS, this media bollocks over Boris bike trip, the antilockdown park bench stunt...they are back to the bullshitty of the first lockdown, constantly looking for inconsistencies in the rules. Unless the government were to write 100000s of pages, they can't cover every aspect of our lives. The only other alternative is in your house, you can't come out, end of.
The absolute key message from Whitty has totally been lost.
It doesn't matter what the rules or guidance is, every interaction has the potential to continue the chain if transmission, so only interact with other people of you absolutely need to.
This media looking for an easy "win" is costing lives. It really f##ks me off. They should be doing this best to use their megaphone to project Whitty statement, instead of themselves sowing confusion.
But that's what the media do, and we know it - it isn't going to change.
There's no intrinsic problem with BJ going on a bike ride, but it's pretty poor politics for this to come out on the same day that the CMO is shouting that we must stay at home and only leave if absolutely essential because the health service is in crisis and thousands of people are dying. It doesn't look to me as if BJ travelling across London for his exercise was 'absolutely essential'. Politically and in respect of health messaging, it's at best clumsy.
Why isn't exercise 'absolutely essential'?
Obesity kills. Obesity is bad for the pandemic. The PM has mentioned already his struggles with his weight and advised taking exercise, cycling in particular he has spoken about as his favourite exercise.
So where is the hypocrisy? I don't know if the weather's different in London than it is here because quite frankly exercising outdoors at the minute seems horrid to me, but it is specifically something that is legally permitted and classed as essential under the law.
Nope. Scott says the message is STAY AT HOME so presumably no exercise allowed.
He probably means dont go too far but that's the problem hammering home only thr slogan on it's own several times.
FFS, this media bollocks over Boris bike trip, the antilockdown park bench stunt...they are back to the bullshitty of the first lockdown, constantly looking for inconsistencies in the rules. Unless the government were to write 100000s of pages, they can't cover every aspect of our lives. The only other alternative is in your house, you can't come out, end of.
The absolute key message from Whitty has totally been lost.
It doesn't matter what the rules or guidance is, every interaction has the potential to continue the chain if transmission, so only interact with other people of you absolutely need to.
This media looking for an easy "win" is costing lives. It really f##ks me off. They should be doing this best to use their megaphone to project Whitty statement, instead of themselves sowing confusion.
But that's what the media do, and we know it - it isn't going to change.
There's no intrinsic problem with BJ going on a bike ride, but it's pretty poor politics for this to come out on the same day that the CMO is shouting that we must stay at home and only leave if absolutely essential because the health service is in crisis and thousands of people are dying. It doesn't look to me as if BJ travelling across London for his exercise was 'absolutely essential'. Politically and in respect of health messaging, it's at best clumsy.
Why isn't exercise 'absolutely essential'?
Obesity kills. Obesity is bad for the pandemic. The PM has mentioned already his struggles with his weight and advised taking exercise, cycling in particular he has spoken about as his favourite exercise.
So where is the hypocrisy? I don't know if the weather's different in London than it is here because quite frankly exercising outdoors at the minute seems horrid to me, but it is specifically something that is legally permitted and classed as essential under the law.
Perhaps the weather is better in the olympic park compared to downing street?
In Ireland there is a clear simple rule - exercise within 5km of home. There are even a couple of parks within 5km of Johnson's town house.
Well clearly those in UK cities are banned from going anywhere near the countryside so we'll just all have to crowd into our local parks and take our chances there.
Present government policy seems designed to ensure that most people can only exercise in densely packed outdoor space, rather than driving a bit further to enjoy a country walk in relative isolation.
I'm trying to work out whether a man could have a pee without getting off his bike, and it's hurting my brain.
Not unknown in the pro peleton. You need a dom pushing to keep the speed up.
It's better if it's raining then you just piss yourself. Done it many times.
You know when you open a door that you know you shouldn't open, but you do it anyway, and then the open door is open and you wish you had never opened it but it's open? That.
In Ireland there is a clear simple rule - exercise within 5km of home. There are even a couple of parks within 5km of Johnson's town house.
The simple rule in Ireland hasn't stopped them from having a worse infection rate, though. I'd rather the media were putting time and attention into the issue of schools - are the numbers at school still high enough to be a large source of virus spread? - and doubtless other more important issues I haven't heard about.
Even covering the vaccination progress as good news would be worthwhile. It would give people hope that a modest period of self-restraint would be a step towards ending this thing.
The problem with a "simple" rule like that is it would mean many people having to exercise where it is busy. Or dangerous due to traffic and/or a dodgy area at night. Also, as exercise is for mental health rather than just physical, there is some need for people to get some variety. The once a day thing is annoying me as it means I can't go for a walk at lunchtime as well as a run in the evening but I will stick to it.
Scotland allows travel for exercise up to five miles outside the council area, as long as the exercise starts and stops where you went and that exercise is all you do. Basically so that people in the cities can get out into the surrounding hills.
It's obviously meant for going in a car, but they don't want to openly discriminate against people without, so I suppose you could also go by public transport. That does not seem a good idea though.
That seems a reasonable distance.
It would also encourage people to explore their local area rather than think you have to go to a national park in order to walk two miles.
Why are we even discussing this? Transmitting Covid whilst riding a bike would be quite a challenge, whether it be 5, 7 or 20 miles. Who cares?
Shouldn`t we focus on basement parties and covert bars - you know, those indoor groupy things?
I would have thought, given the depth and regularity of breathing involved, plus 5e energetic expulsion of air from lungs, that it would actually be rather easy to spread Covid while riding a bike.
I don't know either way, and I'm not suggesting that we should create unnecessary problems for cyclists - if cycling is thought by scientists to be pretty safe from spreading infection, then let's include an exemption in the rules - "You can cycle as far as you like so long as you don't ghet off and walk around in another area" or whatever. Perhaps, if it's safe, we can use the opportunity to promote cycling. But don't make up an ambiguous rule and then appear to flout it.
Then we are down the rabbit hole of what about skateboards, what about....etc etc etc.
You just can't legislate or provide guidance for every possible situation in life.
What about walking? We sometimes go on 10 or 15 mile walks. Are they okay, This is getting silly.
Walking *for exercise* is fine, as is cycling. They should both be encouraged.
Note that neither of these activities involve stopping to meet friends in the park for an hour with a picnic, nor getting in the car to find a beauty spot - which is the behaviour being noted, and clamped down on, by authorities.
In all this 'chaff' about rule making/keeping/breaking one thing stands out. Every morning I have a look at the BBC's 'The Papers' and once upon a time the Star had a nonsense headline just about every day. Now it's relentlessly mocking the PM. Yes, I know the Star has a minuscule readership, but it's still there, and, when (if) it's readers vote, the idea of being led by a clown might not appeal. To most anyway. I also note that the once unqualified support for the Tories from the Mail's headline writers seems to be evaporating.
Yes, it’s becoming a big problem when they don’t want to mention that the UK is leading the G20 and EU27 on vaccines per capita, because sniping at the government over trivia sells more papers.
It's not becoming a big problem. That's what the papers have always done, regardless of the hue of the government in power. Their job, after all, is to sell papers. They are businesses, not national information services.
Of course, but for the last year they’ve utterly failed to understand that their actions have been costing lives. They need, in times of pandemic, to be much more of a public information service than has been the case. The subject of this thread being a case in point.
I'm not sure how the stuff about Boris on his bike is supposed to be costing lives. It's silly, but not exactly dangerous. On the other hand, your contention that the media should be blowing a trumpet for the government with regard to vaccine delivery is a little sinister. If the media do have a responsibility other than making money, it is to hold the government to account, not to be its cheerleader.
Why did BoZo cycle round a park 7 miles from his residence?
To reinforce the STAY AT HOME message...
Your persistence makes it seem like he should never leave the house at all. 7m is not that much, find another thing to criticise, there must be plenty to choose from.
I have a whole list of criticisms of Johnson, happy to share if anyone is struggling
But I'll not criticise him for this or - so far, at least - for the UK vaccine procurement (well done) and delivery (seems to be fairly good so far)
Boris never leaves us short of things to criticise, which is why faux outrage and arguments over 7m being local or not is so weird.
It's not like hes finally slipped up and given us the opportunity, the wily, disciplined devil. He stumbles his words, u turns or messes up a policy most weeks.
If people are still bringing this up come next week it will tell me they must think hes doing a good job as they cannot think of anything else to go on.
And yet bar a few things hes not doing a good job.
Indeed. When I heard he was already in his early 50s, I was thinking, surely there have been more u-turns and cockups than that?
Earlier this morning, Commissioner Dick: it is "preposterous" to think public don't understand the rules.
Last half hour, Commissioner Dick: "it can be complex both for the public and my frontline officers to know what the regulations are". There have been many changes.
So, which is it?
Clarifying local would be even worse, since already today some here are suggesting it means different things in different places so it needs defining differently. It really is another example where the government simply cannot provide every detail or provide for every eventuality.
Let's all just jog on the spot outside our front doors.
Women up north were fined for exercising five miles from home. Boris exercised seven miles from home, despite living almost opposite St James's Park.
In all this 'chaff' about rule making/keeping/breaking one thing stands out. Every morning I have a look at the BBC's 'The Papers' and once upon a time the Star had a nonsense headline just about every day. Now it's relentlessly mocking the PM. Yes, I know the Star has a minuscule readership, but it's still there, and, when (if) it's readers vote, the idea of being led by a clown might not appeal. To most anyway. I also note that the once unqualified support for the Tories from the Mail's headline writers seems to be evaporating.
Mail under Remain supporting editor have been one of the most critical of the government covid handling. Even Monday, when basically every other paper had fairly good headline for government over vaccine roll out, they had Betrayal.....care home residents not been vaccinated quickly enough.
Another example of ascribing motivation to the Remain/Leave divide where there is no obvious reason to do so.
The Mail's stance on Covid is much more likely to be motivated by the fact that everyone, even Mail Tory loyalists, can see that Johnson's performance has been dire, perhaps the worst of any world leader aside from Trump. Remain/leave has nothing to do with it.
For some (disproportionately in the media), Boris is Leave. Leave was Very Bad, so Boris is Very Bad. All stories must point to Boris being Very Bad. These people can only see Boris' performance on Covid as having been Very Bad. Despite us now having one of the better news stories over battling Covid with the vaccines.
So when you say "everyone, even Mail Tory loyalists, can see that Johnson's performance has been dire" - count me out your certainty of that totality. With the foresight of the vaccine-buying programme, he's overseeing a way out of the Covid maze. He had A Plan. And that is what I ask of a Prime Minister.
Why are we even discussing this? Transmitting Covid whilst riding a bike would be quite a challenge, whether it be 5, 7 or 20 miles. Who cares?
Shouldn`t we focus on basement parties and covert bars - you know, those indoor groupy things?
I would have thought, given the depth and regularity of breathing involved, plus 5e energetic expulsion of air from lungs, that it would actually be rather easy to spread Covid while riding a bike.
I don't know either way, and I'm not suggesting that we should create unnecessary problems for cyclists - if cycling is thought by scientists to be pretty safe from spreading infection, then let's include an exemption in the rules - "You can cycle as far as you like so long as you don't ghet off and walk around in another area" or whatever. Perhaps, if it's safe, we can use the opportunity to promote cycling. But don't make up an ambiguous rule and then appear to flout it.
Then we are down the rabbit hole of what about skateboards, what about....etc etc etc.
You just can't legislate or provide guidance for every possible situation in life.
What about walking? We sometimes go on 10 or 15 mile walks. Are they okay, This is getting silly.
Walking *for exercise* is fine, as is cycling. They should both be encouraged.
Note that neither of these activities involve stopping to meet friends in the park for an hour with a picnic, nor getting in the car to find a beauty spot - which is the behaviour being noted, and clamped down on, by authorities.
But they've also said that you shouldn't leave your local built-up area. For me a walk of one mile would take me outside that area.
In all this 'chaff' about rule making/keeping/breaking one thing stands out. Every morning I have a look at the BBC's 'The Papers' and once upon a time the Star had a nonsense headline just about every day. Now it's relentlessly mocking the PM. Yes, I know the Star has a minuscule readership, but it's still there, and, when (if) it's readers vote, the idea of being led by a clown might not appeal. To most anyway. I also note that the once unqualified support for the Tories from the Mail's headline writers seems to be evaporating.
Mail under Remain supporting editor have been one of the most critical of the government covid handling. Even Monday, when basically every other paper had fairly good headline for government over vaccine roll out, they had Betrayal.....care home residents not been vaccinated quickly enough.
Another example of ascribing motivation to the Remain/Leave divide where there is no obvious reason to do so.
The Mail's stance on Covid is much more likely to be motivated by the fact that everyone, even Mail Tory loyalists, can see that Johnson's performance has been dire, perhaps the worst of any world leader aside from Trump. Remain/leave has nothing to do with it.
For some (disproportionately in the media), Boris is Leave. Leave was Very Bad, so Boris is Very Bad. All stories must point to Boris being Very Bad. These people can only see Boris' performance on Covid as having been Very Bad. Despite us now having one of the better news stories over battling Covid with the vaccines.
So when you say "everyone, even Mail Tory loyalists, can see that Johnson's performance has been dire" - count me out your certainty of that totality. With the foresight of the vaccine-buying programme, he's overseeing a way out of the Covid maze. He had A Plan. And that is what I ask of a Prime Minister.
Except for vaccines Boris is bad because he is reactive rather than proactive.
Everything Boris has done is by leaving things to the last second and then picking the only option left.
Why are we even discussing this? Transmitting Covid whilst riding a bike would be quite a challenge, whether it be 5, 7 or 20 miles. Who cares?
Shouldn`t we focus on basement parties and covert bars - you know, those indoor groupy things?
I would have thought, given the depth and regularity of breathing involved, plus 5e energetic expulsion of air from lungs, that it would actually be rather easy to spread Covid while riding a bike.
I don't know either way, and I'm not suggesting that we should create unnecessary problems for cyclists - if cycling is thought by scientists to be pretty safe from spreading infection, then let's include an exemption in the rules - "You can cycle as far as you like so long as you don't ghet off and walk around in another area" or whatever. Perhaps, if it's safe, we can use the opportunity to promote cycling. But don't make up an ambiguous rule and then appear to flout it.
Then we are down the rabbit hole of what about skateboards, what about....etc etc etc.
You just can't legislate or provide guidance for every possible situation in life.
What about walking? We sometimes go on 10 or 15 mile walks. Are they okay, This is getting silly.
Walking *for exercise* is fine, as is cycling. They should both be encouraged.
Note that neither of these activities involve stopping to meet friends in the park for an hour with a picnic, nor getting in the car to find a beauty spot - which is the behaviour being noted, and clamped down on, by authorities.
But they've also said that you shouldn't leave your local built-up area. For me a walk of one mile would take me outside that area.
In all this 'chaff' about rule making/keeping/breaking one thing stands out. Every morning I have a look at the BBC's 'The Papers' and once upon a time the Star had a nonsense headline just about every day. Now it's relentlessly mocking the PM. Yes, I know the Star has a minuscule readership, but it's still there, and, when (if) it's readers vote, the idea of being led by a clown might not appeal. To most anyway. I also note that the once unqualified support for the Tories from the Mail's headline writers seems to be evaporating.
Yes, it’s becoming a big problem when they don’t want to mention that the UK is leading the G20 and EU27 on vaccines per capita, because sniping at the government over trivia sells more papers.
It's not becoming a big problem. That's what the papers have always done, regardless of the hue of the government in power. Their job, after all, is to sell papers. They are businesses, not national information services.
Of course, but for the last year they’ve utterly failed to understand that their actions have been costing lives. They need, in times of pandemic, to be much more of a public information service than has been the case. The subject of this thread being a case in point.
I'm not sure how the stuff about Boris on his bike is supposed to be costing lives. It's silly, but not exactly dangerous. On the other hand, your contention that the media should be blowing a trumpet for the government with regard to vaccine delivery is a little sinister. If the media do have a responsibility other than making money, it is to hold the government to account, not to be its cheerleader.
I’m not saying they should be cheerleading for the government, I’m saying they should be valuing facts over opinions, and not looking hard for negative stories that don’t stand up to more than a cursory examination. They also need to be aware that their constant negativity influences public opinion in ways that contribute to the spread of the virus.
Worth pointing out that the London Borough of Newham, where the Olympic Park is located, has recorded more Covid cases than anywhere else in London, had the highest mortality rate from Covid in the first wave of anywhere in the UK, and is currently recording the second highest rate of new infections of anywhere in London, while London itself is facing an unprecedented medical emergency. Newham is also, not coincidentally, one of the most deprived areas of London. There are plenty of parks and cycle paths in Westminster, K&C etc for Johnson to cycle in. It pains me to say it, but I think OGH is wrong on this.
As I said previously, perhaps the image of hoity toity Boris in St. James's Park is not the one they thought would be useful.
I think, as others have said, to see our PM on a bike taking exercise is a good thing.
Can't help feeling that it needed a trigger warning for @Dura_Ace though.
I had to have a Silkwood Shower after seeing Johnson's Halfords contraption.
Isn`t a Halford`s contraption an adequate, sufficient device for a short ride completely within the rules Dura Ace?
The only worse sin than riding a BSO is bringing mixed radix counting systems of measuring distance into any discussion of cycling. Km or GTFO.
Your snobbery regarding things mechanical is a wonder to behold.
The angriest I ever seen Mrs DA was when I got my laptop out at Brussels airport and announced I was going to change the boost map on our hired BMW via the ODB2 port before we drove to the hotel.
Am I wrong in being irritated the most by people who buy high end equipment and seem to believe that the purchase of said equipment makes them "elite"?
In my area we have a squad of cyclists, whom I have dubbed The Fat Men On Fixies. Every single one has a very expensive bike, gleaming with it's lack of use, Which they ride badly - some of them quite clearly have issue controlling direction. And in the entire length of lockdown, none of them seems to have reduced in size.
Compared to them, the local mums and dads shepherding their ducklings in a line, on Halfords finest, seem... harmless
In all this 'chaff' about rule making/keeping/breaking one thing stands out. Every morning I have a look at the BBC's 'The Papers' and once upon a time the Star had a nonsense headline just about every day. Now it's relentlessly mocking the PM. Yes, I know the Star has a minuscule readership, but it's still there, and, when (if) it's readers vote, the idea of being led by a clown might not appeal. To most anyway. I also note that the once unqualified support for the Tories from the Mail's headline writers seems to be evaporating.
Mail under Remain supporting editor have been one of the most critical of the government covid handling. Even Monday, when basically every other paper had fairly good headline for government over vaccine roll out, they had Betrayal.....care home residents not been vaccinated quickly enough.
Another example of ascribing motivation to the Remain/Leave divide where there is no obvious reason to do so.
The Mail's stance on Covid is much more likely to be motivated by the fact that everyone, even Mail Tory loyalists, can see that Johnson's performance has been dire, perhaps the worst of any world leader aside from Trump. Remain/leave has nothing to do with it.
For some (disproportionately in the media), Boris is Leave. Leave was Very Bad, so Boris is Very Bad. All stories must point to Boris being Very Bad. These people can only see Boris' performance on Covid as having been Very Bad. Despite us now having one of the better news stories over battling Covid with the vaccines.
So when you say "everyone, even Mail Tory loyalists, can see that Johnson's performance has been dire" - count me out your certainty of that totality. With the foresight of the vaccine-buying programme, he's overseeing a way out of the Covid maze. He had A Plan. And that is what I ask of a Prime Minister.
For some (disproportionately in the media), Boris is Leave. Leave was Very Good, so Boris is Very Good. All stories must point to Boris being Very Good. These people can only see Boris' performance on Covid as having been Very Good. Despite us now having one of the bitter news stories over Covid numbers.
Names are much underestimated in a child's future prospects. Early branding with a catchy name is one of the greatest gifts a parent can give. Who would have heard of Stirling Moss all these years later if he'd been a Chitwetel Ejiofor?
She might not be a great policewoman but how many other policewomen can anyone name?
Earlier this morning, Commissioner Dick: it is "preposterous" to think public don't understand the rules.
Last half hour, Commissioner Dick: "it can be complex both for the public and my frontline officers to know what the regulations are". There have been many changes.
So, which is it?
Clarifying local would be even worse, since already today some here are suggesting it means different things in different places so it needs defining differently. It really is another example where the government simply cannot provide every detail or provide for every eventuality.
Let's all just jog on the spot outside our front doors.
Women up north were fined for exercising five miles from home. Boris exercised seven miles from home, despite living almost opposite St James's Park.
And the former was wrong. Restriction on exercise distance is dumb when it's how you do it with whom that's an issue.
I could jog up and down my street and inadvertently get too close to more people than going 15 miles on a bike on roads with a covering over my mouth.
Why are we even discussing this? Transmitting Covid whilst riding a bike would be quite a challenge, whether it be 5, 7 or 20 miles. Who cares?
Shouldn`t we focus on basement parties and covert bars - you know, those indoor groupy things?
I would have thought, given the depth and regularity of breathing involved, plus 5e energetic expulsion of air from lungs, that it would actually be rather easy to spread Covid while riding a bike.
I don't know either way, and I'm not suggesting that we should create unnecessary problems for cyclists - if cycling is thought by scientists to be pretty safe from spreading infection, then let's include an exemption in the rules - "You can cycle as far as you like so long as you don't ghet off and walk around in another area" or whatever. Perhaps, if it's safe, we can use the opportunity to promote cycling. But don't make up an ambiguous rule and then appear to flout it.
Then we are down the rabbit hole of what about skateboards, what about....etc etc etc.
You just can't legislate or provide guidance for every possible situation in life.
What about walking? We sometimes go on 10 or 15 mile walks. Are they okay, This is getting silly.
Walking *for exercise* is fine, as is cycling. They should both be encouraged.
Note that neither of these activities involve stopping to meet friends in the park for an hour with a picnic, nor getting in the car to find a beauty spot - which is the behaviour being noted, and clamped down on, by authorities.
The aim is to encourage exercise. Surely you want the conditions for taking that exercise then to be as good as possible. Especially in this weather. Why the fuck not drive to a beauty spot and take along a coffee. Leave the hair shirt indoors.
Names are much underestimated in a child's future prospects. Early branding with a catchy name is one of the greatest gifts a parent can give. Who would have heard of Stirling Moss all these years later if he'd been a Chitwetel Ejiofor?
She might not be a great policewoman but how many other policewomen can anyone name?
In all this 'chaff' about rule making/keeping/breaking one thing stands out. Every morning I have a look at the BBC's 'The Papers' and once upon a time the Star had a nonsense headline just about every day. Now it's relentlessly mocking the PM. Yes, I know the Star has a minuscule readership, but it's still there, and, when (if) it's readers vote, the idea of being led by a clown might not appeal. To most anyway. I also note that the once unqualified support for the Tories from the Mail's headline writers seems to be evaporating.
Mail under Remain supporting editor have been one of the most critical of the government covid handling. Even Monday, when basically every other paper had fairly good headline for government over vaccine roll out, they had Betrayal.....care home residents not been vaccinated quickly enough.
Another example of ascribing motivation to the Remain/Leave divide where there is no obvious reason to do so.
The Mail's stance on Covid is much more likely to be motivated by the fact that everyone, even Mail Tory loyalists, can see that Johnson's performance has been dire, perhaps the worst of any world leader aside from Trump. Remain/leave has nothing to do with it.
For some (disproportionately in the media), Boris is Leave. Leave was Very Bad, so Boris is Very Bad. All stories must point to Boris being Very Bad. These people can only see Boris' performance on Covid as having been Very Bad. Despite us now having one of the better news stories over battling Covid with the vaccines.
So when you say "everyone, even Mail Tory loyalists, can see that Johnson's performance has been dire" - count me out your certainty of that totality. With the foresight of the vaccine-buying programme, he's overseeing a way out of the Covid maze. He had A Plan. And that is what I ask of a Prime Minister.
For some (disproportionately in the media), Boris is Leave. Leave was Very Good, so Boris is Very Good. All stories must point to Boris being Very Good. These people can only see Boris' performance on Covid as having been Very Good. Despite us now having one of the bitter news stories over Covid numbers.
For many others in the media, Brexit is terrible and racist, Boris is terrible, useless and racist, and everything he does is not just bad but malicious and evil.
In all this 'chaff' about rule making/keeping/breaking one thing stands out. Every morning I have a look at the BBC's 'The Papers' and once upon a time the Star had a nonsense headline just about every day. Now it's relentlessly mocking the PM. Yes, I know the Star has a minuscule readership, but it's still there, and, when (if) it's readers vote, the idea of being led by a clown might not appeal. To most anyway. I also note that the once unqualified support for the Tories from the Mail's headline writers seems to be evaporating.
Mail under Remain supporting editor have been one of the most critical of the government covid handling. Even Monday, when basically every other paper had fairly good headline for government over vaccine roll out, they had Betrayal.....care home residents not been vaccinated quickly enough.
Another example of ascribing motivation to the Remain/Leave divide where there is no obvious reason to do so.
The Mail's stance on Covid is much more likely to be motivated by the fact that everyone, even Mail Tory loyalists, can see that Johnson's performance has been dire, perhaps the worst of any world leader aside from Trump. Remain/leave has nothing to do with it.
Yet the UK has managed to get the best testing system in place and very possibly the best vaccination system in place of any major country.
Criticize the government if you want - there are certainly aspects where it has failed badly or made the wrong decisions.
But don't pretend that your claims of 'worst in the world' are anything more than general dislike of Boris and the Conservative party.
In all this 'chaff' about rule making/keeping/breaking one thing stands out. Every morning I have a look at the BBC's 'The Papers' and once upon a time the Star had a nonsense headline just about every day. Now it's relentlessly mocking the PM. Yes, I know the Star has a minuscule readership, but it's still there, and, when (if) it's readers vote, the idea of being led by a clown might not appeal. To most anyway. I also note that the once unqualified support for the Tories from the Mail's headline writers seems to be evaporating.
Yes, it’s becoming a big problem when they don’t want to mention that the UK is leading the G20 and EU27 on vaccines per capita, because sniping at the government over trivia sells more papers.
It's not becoming a big problem. That's what the papers have always done, regardless of the hue of the government in power. Their job, after all, is to sell papers. They are businesses, not national information services.
Of course, but for the last year they’ve utterly failed to understand that their actions have been costing lives. They need, in times of pandemic, to be much more of a public information service than has been the case. The subject of this thread being a case in point.
I'm not sure how the stuff about Boris on his bike is supposed to be costing lives. It's silly, but not exactly dangerous. On the other hand, your contention that the media should be blowing a trumpet for the government with regard to vaccine delivery is a little sinister. If the media do have a responsibility other than making money, it is to hold the government to account, not to be its cheerleader.
I’m not saying they should be cheerleading for the government, I’m saying they should be valuing facts over opinions, and not looking hard for negative stories that don’t stand up to more than a cursory examination. They also need to be aware that their constant negativity influences public opinion in ways that contribute to the spread of the virus.
Only in the UK would people be talking about someone going for a bike ride rather than the fact that we are vaccinating 2 miilion people a week against a disease that has caused the biggest upheaval since WW2.
I wonder how many of the media who are losing their shit over Boris cycling did a Piers Moron and bent the rules and went against the guidance in order not to miss out on their foreign holiday over Christmas?
Can't help feeling that it needed a trigger warning for @Dura_Ace though.
I had to have a Silkwood Shower after seeing Johnson's Halfords contraption.
Isn`t a Halford`s contraption an adequate, sufficient device for a short ride completely within the rules Dura Ace?
The only worse sin than riding a BSO is bringing mixed radix counting systems of measuring distance into any discussion of cycling. Km or GTFO.
Your snobbery regarding things mechanical is a wonder to behold.
The angriest I ever seen Mrs DA was when I got my laptop out at Brussels airport and announced I was going to change the boost map on our hired BMW via the ODB2 port before we drove to the hotel.
Am I wrong in being irritated the most by people who buy high end equipment and seem to believe that the purchase of said equipment makes them "elite"?
In my area we have a squad of cyclists, whom I have dubbed The Fat Men On Fixies. Every single one has a very expensive bike, gleaming with it's lack of use, Which they ride badly - some of them quite clearly have issue controlling direction. And in the entire length of lockdown, none of them seems to have reduced in size.
Compared to them, the local mums and dads shepherding their ducklings in a line, on Halfords finest, seem... harmless
There's something very complicated going on in your head I think.
Those "fatties" are out getting exercise and, it sounds, could probably beat you in a hill sprint or on the flat. You should be celebrating the fact that they are getting off their arses and getting on their arses, so to speak, to exercise.
Are you in your car when you get so irritated by them? And what does it matter what they spend on their bike?
In all this 'chaff' about rule making/keeping/breaking one thing stands out. Every morning I have a look at the BBC's 'The Papers' and once upon a time the Star had a nonsense headline just about every day. Now it's relentlessly mocking the PM. Yes, I know the Star has a minuscule readership, but it's still there, and, when (if) it's readers vote, the idea of being led by a clown might not appeal. To most anyway. I also note that the once unqualified support for the Tories from the Mail's headline writers seems to be evaporating.
Mail under Remain supporting editor have been one of the most critical of the government covid handling. Even Monday, when basically every other paper had fairly good headline for government over vaccine roll out, they had Betrayal.....care home residents not been vaccinated quickly enough.
Another example of ascribing motivation to the Remain/Leave divide where there is no obvious reason to do so.
The Mail's stance on Covid is much more likely to be motivated by the fact that everyone, even Mail Tory loyalists, can see that Johnson's performance has been dire, perhaps the worst of any world leader aside from Trump. Remain/leave has nothing to do with it.
For some (disproportionately in the media), Boris is Leave. Leave was Very Bad, so Boris is Very Bad. All stories must point to Boris being Very Bad. These people can only see Boris' performance on Covid as having been Very Bad. Despite us now having one of the better news stories over battling Covid with the vaccines.
So when you say "everyone, even Mail Tory loyalists, can see that Johnson's performance has been dire" - count me out your certainty of that totality. With the foresight of the vaccine-buying programme, he's overseeing a way out of the Covid maze. He had A Plan. And that is what I ask of a Prime Minister.
For some (disproportionately in the media), Boris is Leave. Leave was Very Good, so Boris is Very Good. All stories must point to Boris being Very Good. These people can only see Boris' performance on Covid as having been Very Good. Despite us now having one of the bitter news stories over Covid numbers.
For many others in the media, Brexit is terrible and racist, Boris is terrible, useless and racist, and everything he does is not just bad but malicious and evil.
Yes, you're just restating the point I was parodying.
Eye of the beholder, really. A reasonable person would conclude that there have been both successes and failures in the government handling of Covid-19. They've got some things right straight off the bat, but also failed to correct the same errors they've been making from the start.
I do understand Boris is gorgeous and beyond reproach, but why is he cycling 7 miles from home in his suit? The suit must be honking! NutNuts will be furious at the dry cleaning bill.
I'm trying to work out whether a man could have a pee without getting off his bike, and it's hurting my brain.
Not unknown in the pro peleton. You need a dom pushing to keep the speed up.
It's better if it's raining then you just piss yourself. Done it many times.
Just imagine you're an astronaut or fighter pilot.
For pilots there's a gadget with a funnel, pipe and bottle that you can buy for that.
We had the charmingly named "piss pack" for long transits in the Sea Harrier but you had to wank yourself semi-erect to get best use of it. It was also basically impossible to use in an immersion suit.
The Russians and Chinese get issued "Magic Underpants" with built in plumbing. Not guaranteed to be new.
Why are we even discussing this? Transmitting Covid whilst riding a bike would be quite a challenge, whether it be 5, 7 or 20 miles. Who cares?
Shouldn`t we focus on basement parties and covert bars - you know, those indoor groupy things?
I would have thought, given the depth and regularity of breathing involved, plus 5e energetic expulsion of air from lungs, that it would actually be rather easy to spread Covid while riding a bike.
I don't know either way, and I'm not suggesting that we should create unnecessary problems for cyclists - if cycling is thought by scientists to be pretty safe from spreading infection, then let's include an exemption in the rules - "You can cycle as far as you like so long as you don't ghet off and walk around in another area" or whatever. Perhaps, if it's safe, we can use the opportunity to promote cycling. But don't make up an ambiguous rule and then appear to flout it.
Then we are down the rabbit hole of what about skateboards, what about....etc etc etc.
You just can't legislate or provide guidance for every possible situation in life.
What about walking? We sometimes go on 10 or 15 mile walks. Are they okay, This is getting silly.
Walking *for exercise* is fine, as is cycling. They should both be encouraged.
Note that neither of these activities involve stopping to meet friends in the park for an hour with a picnic, nor getting in the car to find a beauty spot - which is the behaviour being noted, and clamped down on, by authorities.
The aim is to encourage exercise. Surely you want the conditions for taking that exercise then to be as good as possible. Especially in this weather. Why the fuck not drive to a beauty spot and take along a coffee. Leave the hair shirt indoors.
The ratio of the time spent getting to and back from the exercise location compare to the time spent exercising would be a useful marker.
I suspect many who spent hours driving to Snowdonia or the Lake District did minimal actual exercise when they got there.
There is no world in which Johnson, 56, is in his "early 50s".
Fuck off. I`m 56 and I am.
I'm 60 in 12 days, and I still consider myself in my early 50s.
I'm a day older than you. We are "The Tiswas" generation. Where were you born and will you be celebrating your birthday? if so, how?
24th is my bd. We live in Pembrokeshire now, luckily very quiet and relatively safer. We shall prolly just have a steak meal or something. Tiswas was brilliant, I watched it from when it was only a local ATV programme in staffs. I went to a grammar school and started off watching swap shop, but it was nice to slum it with Tiswas with the sec mod crowd..
I do understand Boris is gorgeous and beyond reproach, but why is he cycling 7 miles from home in his suit? The suit must be honking! NutNuts will be furious at the dry cleaning bill.
Thats a picture from July last year, look at the clothes the other cyclists are wearing, no coat, no gloves
I do understand Boris is gorgeous and beyond reproach, but why is he cycling 7 miles from home in his suit? The suit must be honking! NutNuts will be furious at the dry cleaning bill.
Why are we even discussing this? Transmitting Covid whilst riding a bike would be quite a challenge, whether it be 5, 7 or 20 miles. Who cares?
Shouldn`t we focus on basement parties and covert bars - you know, those indoor groupy things?
I would have thought, given the depth and regularity of breathing involved, plus 5e energetic expulsion of air from lungs, that it would actually be rather easy to spread Covid while riding a bike.
I don't know either way, and I'm not suggesting that we should create unnecessary problems for cyclists - if cycling is thought by scientists to be pretty safe from spreading infection, then let's include an exemption in the rules - "You can cycle as far as you like so long as you don't ghet off and walk around in another area" or whatever. Perhaps, if it's safe, we can use the opportunity to promote cycling. But don't make up an ambiguous rule and then appear to flout it.
Then we are down the rabbit hole of what about skateboards, what about....etc etc etc.
You just can't legislate or provide guidance for every possible situation in life.
What about walking? We sometimes go on 10 or 15 mile walks. Are they okay, This is getting silly.
Walking *for exercise* is fine, as is cycling. They should both be encouraged.
Note that neither of these activities involve stopping to meet friends in the park for an hour with a picnic, nor getting in the car to find a beauty spot - which is the behaviour being noted, and clamped down on, by authorities.
The aim is to encourage exercise. Surely you want the conditions for taking that exercise then to be as good as possible. Especially in this weather. Why the fuck not drive to a beauty spot and take along a coffee. Leave the hair shirt indoors.
Because giving people an inch has consistently led to them taking a mile, and the last thing we need is tens of thousands of people travelling large distances to all be in the same place.
Worth pointing out that the London Borough of Newham, where the Olympic Park is located, has recorded more Covid cases than anywhere else in London, had the highest mortality rate from Covid in the first wave of anywhere in the UK, and is currently recording the second highest rate of new infections of anywhere in London, while London itself is facing an unprecedented medical emergency. Newham is also, not coincidentally, one of the most deprived areas of London. There are plenty of parks and cycle paths in Westminster, K&C etc for Johnson to cycle in. It pains me to say it, but I think OGH is wrong on this.
As I said previously, perhaps the image of hoity toity Boris in St. James's Park is not the one they thought would be useful.
I think, as others have said, to see our PM on a bike taking exercise is a good thing.
Do you think it is good to encourage people to travel to one of the worst Covid hot-spots in the UK and potentially spread a lethal illness among a community that has already seen the worst wave of death in the country? In my opinion, nothing expresses "hoity toity" Johnson's absurd life of self-absorbed privilege more than choosing to cycle round Newham when there are any number of locations closer to his home available.
Why are we even discussing this? Transmitting Covid whilst riding a bike would be quite a challenge, whether it be 5, 7 or 20 miles. Who cares?
Shouldn`t we focus on basement parties and covert bars - you know, those indoor groupy things?
I would have thought, given the depth and regularity of breathing involved, plus 5e energetic expulsion of air from lungs, that it would actually be rather easy to spread Covid while riding a bike.
I don't know either way, and I'm not suggesting that we should create unnecessary problems for cyclists - if cycling is thought by scientists to be pretty safe from spreading infection, then let's include an exemption in the rules - "You can cycle as far as you like so long as you don't ghet off and walk around in another area" or whatever. Perhaps, if it's safe, we can use the opportunity to promote cycling. But don't make up an ambiguous rule and then appear to flout it.
Then we are down the rabbit hole of what about skateboards, what about....etc etc etc.
You just can't legislate or provide guidance for every possible situation in life.
What about walking? We sometimes go on 10 or 15 mile walks. Are they okay, This is getting silly.
Walking *for exercise* is fine, as is cycling. They should both be encouraged.
Note that neither of these activities involve stopping to meet friends in the park for an hour with a picnic, nor getting in the car to find a beauty spot - which is the behaviour being noted, and clamped down on, by authorities.
The aim is to encourage exercise. Surely you want the conditions for taking that exercise then to be as good as possible. Especially in this weather. Why the fuck not drive to a beauty spot and take along a coffee. Leave the hair shirt indoors.
The ratio of the time spent getting to and back from the exercise location compare to the time spent exercising would be a useful marker.
I suspect many who spent hours driving to Snowdonia or the Lake District did minimal actual exercise when they got there.
Well that's another issue. They weren't a risk while they were in their cars, though, so again, what's the big problem?
FFS, this media bollocks over Boris bike trip, the antilockdown park bench stunt...they are back to the bullshitty of the first lockdown, constantly looking for inconsistencies in the rules. Unless the government were to write 100000s of pages, they can't cover every aspect of our lives. The only other alternative is in your house, you can't come out, end of.
The absolute key message from Whitty has totally been lost.
It doesn't matter what the rules or guidance is, every interaction has the potential to continue the chain if transmission, so only interact with other people of you absolutely need to.
This media looking for an easy "win" is costing lives. It really f##ks me off. They should be doing this best to use their megaphone to project Whitty statement, instead of themselves sowing confusion.
But that's what the media do, and we know it - it isn't going to change.
There's no intrinsic problem with BJ going on a bike ride, but it's pretty poor politics for this to come out on the same day that the CMO is shouting that we must stay at home and only leave if absolutely essential because the health service is in crisis and thousands of people are dying. It doesn't look to me as if BJ travelling across London for his exercise was 'absolutely essential'. Politically and in respect of health messaging, it's at best clumsy.
Why isn't exercise 'absolutely essential'?
Obesity kills. Obesity is bad for the pandemic. The PM has mentioned already his struggles with his weight and advised taking exercise, cycling in particular he has spoken about as his favourite exercise.
So where is the hypocrisy? I don't know if the weather's different in London than it is here because quite frankly exercising outdoors at the minute seems horrid to me, but it is specifically something that is legally permitted and classed as essential under the law.
Try reading what I wrote more carefully. I never said that exercise isn't absolutely essential - read the full sentence.
Why are we even discussing this? Transmitting Covid whilst riding a bike would be quite a challenge, whether it be 5, 7 or 20 miles. Who cares?
Shouldn`t we focus on basement parties and covert bars - you know, those indoor groupy things?
I would have thought, given the depth and regularity of breathing involved, plus 5e energetic expulsion of air from lungs, that it would actually be rather easy to spread Covid while riding a bike.
I don't know either way, and I'm not suggesting that we should create unnecessary problems for cyclists - if cycling is thought by scientists to be pretty safe from spreading infection, then let's include an exemption in the rules - "You can cycle as far as you like so long as you don't ghet off and walk around in another area" or whatever. Perhaps, if it's safe, we can use the opportunity to promote cycling. But don't make up an ambiguous rule and then appear to flout it.
Then we are down the rabbit hole of what about skateboards, what about....etc etc etc.
You just can't legislate or provide guidance for every possible situation in life.
What about walking? We sometimes go on 10 or 15 mile walks. Are they okay, This is getting silly.
Walking *for exercise* is fine, as is cycling. They should both be encouraged.
Note that neither of these activities involve stopping to meet friends in the park for an hour with a picnic, nor getting in the car to find a beauty spot - which is the behaviour being noted, and clamped down on, by authorities.
The aim is to encourage exercise. Surely you want the conditions for taking that exercise then to be as good as possible. Especially in this weather. Why the fuck not drive to a beauty spot and take along a coffee. Leave the hair shirt indoors.
Because giving people an inch has consistently led to them taking a mile, and the last thing we need is tens of thousands of people travelling large distances to all be in the same place.
Makes no sense. You have a central London park and have thousands of people congregating there from likely a few hundred yards away (take a look at Hyde Park during the first lockdown). Or you have some random AONB which attracts a similar number but is likely an order of magnitude bigger.
No one is saying relax the social distancing requirements in either place.
On topic, as someone who has taken up cycling (mostly indoor cycling on a Roger Black and a Peloton, sorry Dura Ace) I can understand the bug Mike talks about.
That said, I still wouldn't like to cycle on the roads, I've seen too many idiotic drivers in action.
Following the discussion last night on "why can't we let down all restrictions after the under-70s/under-60s/under-50s/under-40s are vaccinated?"
I took a look at that ONS page with the terrible data visualisation between infections, hospitalisations, and deaths, and translated the hospitalisations into raw numbers.
(Warning: up to date info on the age category numbers was only available for the UK as a whole and the data was for hospitalisations in England; I used it as an approximation as England's population is such a big proportion of the whole (82%) and it is likely that the age breakdown of hospitalisations won't be hugely different over the whole UK).
Conclusion: between the last week in November and the start of January:
The number of under-44 year olds hospitalised in w/e 3rd January was greater than the number of 85+ year olds hospitalised in w/e 29 November
The number of 45-64 year olds hospitalised in w/e 3rd January was larger than the number of 85+ year olds and 75-84-year-olds hospitalised in w/e 29 November put together.
Why are we even discussing this? Transmitting Covid whilst riding a bike would be quite a challenge, whether it be 5, 7 or 20 miles. Who cares?
Shouldn`t we focus on basement parties and covert bars - you know, those indoor groupy things?
I would have thought, given the depth and regularity of breathing involved, plus 5e energetic expulsion of air from lungs, that it would actually be rather easy to spread Covid while riding a bike.
I don't know either way, and I'm not suggesting that we should create unnecessary problems for cyclists - if cycling is thought by scientists to be pretty safe from spreading infection, then let's include an exemption in the rules - "You can cycle as far as you like so long as you don't ghet off and walk around in another area" or whatever. Perhaps, if it's safe, we can use the opportunity to promote cycling. But don't make up an ambiguous rule and then appear to flout it.
Then we are down the rabbit hole of what about skateboards, what about....etc etc etc.
You just can't legislate or provide guidance for every possible situation in life.
What about walking? We sometimes go on 10 or 15 mile walks. Are they okay, This is getting silly.
Walking *for exercise* is fine, as is cycling. They should both be encouraged.
Note that neither of these activities involve stopping to meet friends in the park for an hour with a picnic, nor getting in the car to find a beauty spot - which is the behaviour being noted, and clamped down on, by authorities.
The aim is to encourage exercise. Surely you want the conditions for taking that exercise then to be as good as possible. Especially in this weather. Why the fuck not drive to a beauty spot and take along a coffee. Leave the hair shirt indoors.
The ratio of the time spent getting to and back from the exercise location compare to the time spent exercising would be a useful marker.
I suspect many who spent hours driving to Snowdonia or the Lake District did minimal actual exercise when they got there.
Well that's another issue. They weren't a risk while they were in their cars, though, so again, what's the big problem?
Good point. A lot of people still go on old-fashioned "drives" where you just drive around the countryside for a couple of hours. If you don't get out the car, what's the problem? Of course the environmentalists would be critical of it.
In all this 'chaff' about rule making/keeping/breaking one thing stands out. Every morning I have a look at the BBC's 'The Papers' and once upon a time the Star had a nonsense headline just about every day. Now it's relentlessly mocking the PM. Yes, I know the Star has a minuscule readership, but it's still there, and, when (if) it's readers vote, the idea of being led by a clown might not appeal. To most anyway. I also note that the once unqualified support for the Tories from the Mail's headline writers seems to be evaporating.
Mail under Remain supporting editor have been one of the most critical of the government covid handling. Even Monday, when basically every other paper had fairly good headline for government over vaccine roll out, they had Betrayal.....care home residents not been vaccinated quickly enough.
Another example of ascribing motivation to the Remain/Leave divide where there is no obvious reason to do so.
The Mail's stance on Covid is much more likely to be motivated by the fact that everyone, even Mail Tory loyalists, can see that Johnson's performance has been dire, perhaps the worst of any world leader aside from Trump. Remain/leave has nothing to do with it.
For some (disproportionately in the media), Boris is Leave. Leave was Very Bad, so Boris is Very Bad. All stories must point to Boris being Very Bad. These people can only see Boris' performance on Covid as having been Very Bad. Despite us now having one of the better news stories over battling Covid with the vaccines.
So when you say "everyone, even Mail Tory loyalists, can see that Johnson's performance has been dire" - count me out your certainty of that totality. With the foresight of the vaccine-buying programme, he's overseeing a way out of the Covid maze. He had A Plan. And that is what I ask of a Prime Minister.
Except for vaccines Boris is bad because he is reactive rather than proactive.
Everything Boris has done is by leaving things to the last second and then picking the only option left.
The UK has suffered twice as many deaths as Germany. My guess is that Germany will be there or there about when the final count up of vaccinations is done despite having approval later.
I haven't the slightest doubt that had Merkel been leading us through this pandemic we would in all respects be in a better place.
I do understand Boris is gorgeous and beyond reproach, but why is he cycling 7 miles from home in his suit? The suit must be honking! NutNuts will be furious at the dry cleaning bill.
I do understand Boris is gorgeous and beyond reproach, but why is he cycling 7 miles from home in his suit? The suit must be honking! NutNuts will be furious at the dry cleaning bill.
Thats a picture from July last year, look at the clothes the other cyclists are wearing, no coat, no gloves
Ah!
Thank goodness they didn't photograph him in his Lycra.
Worth pointing out that the London Borough of Newham, where the Olympic Park is located, has recorded more Covid cases than anywhere else in London, had the highest mortality rate from Covid in the first wave of anywhere in the UK, and is currently recording the second highest rate of new infections of anywhere in London, while London itself is facing an unprecedented medical emergency. Newham is also, not coincidentally, one of the most deprived areas of London. There are plenty of parks and cycle paths in Westminster, K&C etc for Johnson to cycle in. It pains me to say it, but I think OGH is wrong on this.
As I said previously, perhaps the image of hoity toity Boris in St. James's Park is not the one they thought would be useful.
I think, as others have said, to see our PM on a bike taking exercise is a good thing.
Do you think it is good to encourage people to travel to one of the worst Covid hot-spots in the UK and potentially spread a lethal illness among a community that has already seen the worst wave of death in the country? In my opinion, nothing expresses "hoity toity" Johnson's absurd life of self-absorbed privilege more than choosing to cycle round Newham when there are any number of locations closer to his home available.
Yeah, he's a dick over details. But he's in a park cycling. He is likely no closer or further away than he would be anywhere else, including St. James's Park. Olympic Park is 10x the size of St. James's.
Why are we even discussing this? Transmitting Covid whilst riding a bike would be quite a challenge, whether it be 5, 7 or 20 miles. Who cares?
Shouldn`t we focus on basement parties and covert bars - you know, those indoor groupy things?
I would have thought, given the depth and regularity of breathing involved, plus 5e energetic expulsion of air from lungs, that it would actually be rather easy to spread Covid while riding a bike.
I don't know either way, and I'm not suggesting that we should create unnecessary problems for cyclists - if cycling is thought by scientists to be pretty safe from spreading infection, then let's include an exemption in the rules - "You can cycle as far as you like so long as you don't ghet off and walk around in another area" or whatever. Perhaps, if it's safe, we can use the opportunity to promote cycling. But don't make up an ambiguous rule and then appear to flout it.
Then we are down the rabbit hole of what about skateboards, what about....etc etc etc.
You just can't legislate or provide guidance for every possible situation in life.
What about walking? We sometimes go on 10 or 15 mile walks. Are they okay, This is getting silly.
Walking *for exercise* is fine, as is cycling. They should both be encouraged.
Note that neither of these activities involve stopping to meet friends in the park for an hour with a picnic, nor getting in the car to find a beauty spot - which is the behaviour being noted, and clamped down on, by authorities.
The aim is to encourage exercise. Surely you want the conditions for taking that exercise then to be as good as possible. Especially in this weather. Why the fuck not drive to a beauty spot and take along a coffee. Leave the hair shirt indoors.
The ratio of the time spent getting to and back from the exercise location compare to the time spent exercising would be a useful marker.
I suspect many who spent hours driving to Snowdonia or the Lake District did minimal actual exercise when they got there.
Well that's another issue. They weren't a risk while they were in their cars, though, so again, what's the big problem?
That's a fair point.
Whether extra road congestion or air pollution is a good thing is another issue.
On topic, as someone who has taken up cycling (mostly indoor cycling on a Roger Black and a Peloton, sorry Dura Ace) I can understand the bug Mike talks about.
That said, I still wouldn't like to cycle on the roads, I've seen too many idiotic drivers in action.
I can go up and down virtual mountains from the comfort of my pain cave without getting cold or wet nor having to risk idiot drivers while watching Netflix...no brainer for me
Boris biking around the Olympic Park will make zero difference to infection rates. Just like my mountain bike ride with my son on Saturday will make zero difference. Just like the two blondes drinking tea in Derbyshire will make zero difference.
One day, we will look back on this collective madness and think: “What happened to us all?”
I do understand Boris is gorgeous and beyond reproach, but why is he cycling 7 miles from home in his suit? The suit must be honking! NutNuts will be furious at the dry cleaning bill.
This is a sceeen grab from a YouTube video which was found by searching for "Boris Cycling". It is not from his ride on Sunday.
Following the discussion last night on "why can't we let down all restrictions after the under-70s/under-60s/under-50s/under-40s are vaccinated?"
I took a look at that ONS page with the terrible data visualisation between infections, hospitalisations, and deaths, and translated the hospitalisations into raw numbers.
(Warning: up to date info on the age category numbers was only available for the UK as a whole and the data was for hospitalisations in England; I used it as an approximation as England's population is such a big proportion of the whole (82%) and it is likely that the age breakdown of hospitalisations won't be hugely different over the whole UK).
Conclusion: between the last week in November and the start of January:
The number of under-44 year olds hospitalised in w/e 3rd January was greater than the number of 85+ year olds hospitalised in w/e 29 November
The number of 45-64 year olds hospitalised in w/e 3rd January was larger than the number of 85+ year olds and 75-84-year-olds hospitalised in w/e 29 November put together.
On topic, as someone who has taken up cycling (mostly indoor cycling on a Roger Black and a Peloton, sorry Dura Ace) I can understand the bug Mike talks about.
That said, I still wouldn't like to cycle on the roads, I've seen too many idiotic drivers in action.
I can go up and down virtual mountains from the comfort of my pain cave without getting cold or wet nor having to risk idiot drivers while watching Netflix...no brainer for me
Same here.
Have to admit, cycling whilst watching the cricket does wonders for me.
Boris biking around the Olympic Park will make zero difference to infection rates. Just like my mountain bike ride with my son on Saturday will make zero difference. Just like the two blondes drinking tea in Derbyshire will make zero difference.
One day, we will look back on this collective madness and think: “What happened to us all?”
On topic, as someone who has taken up cycling (mostly indoor cycling on a Roger Black and a Peloton, sorry Dura Ace) I can understand the bug Mike talks about.
That said, I still wouldn't like to cycle on the roads, I've seen too many idiotic drivers in action.
I once stood on the corner of Park Lane and Upper Grosvenor St in London for a bit, just watching the traffic (hugely busy road and intersection). There are traffic lights. But the number of near misses involving cyclists (90% cyclists' fault) was enormous.
I cycle *a lot* in London (or used to!) - up to 2hrs a day through the busiest parts. But I am/was on a Boris bike and I was the idiot who stopped at all the red lights. I would say around 5% of cyclists stop at red lights. Does my head in and I wish I had had special constable powers on my rides as I would have given out fines right, left, and Chelsea all day.
In all this 'chaff' about rule making/keeping/breaking one thing stands out. Every morning I have a look at the BBC's 'The Papers' and once upon a time the Star had a nonsense headline just about every day. Now it's relentlessly mocking the PM. Yes, I know the Star has a minuscule readership, but it's still there, and, when (if) it's readers vote, the idea of being led by a clown might not appeal. To most anyway. I also note that the once unqualified support for the Tories from the Mail's headline writers seems to be evaporating.
Mail under Remain supporting editor have been one of the most critical of the government covid handling. Even Monday, when basically every other paper had fairly good headline for government over vaccine roll out, they had Betrayal.....care home residents not been vaccinated quickly enough.
Another example of ascribing motivation to the Remain/Leave divide where there is no obvious reason to do so.
The Mail's stance on Covid is much more likely to be motivated by the fact that everyone, even Mail Tory loyalists, can see that Johnson's performance has been dire, perhaps the worst of any world leader aside from Trump. Remain/leave has nothing to do with it.
For some (disproportionately in the media), Boris is Leave. Leave was Very Bad, so Boris is Very Bad. All stories must point to Boris being Very Bad. These people can only see Boris' performance on Covid as having been Very Bad. Despite us now having one of the better news stories over battling Covid with the vaccines.
So when you say "everyone, even Mail Tory loyalists, can see that Johnson's performance has been dire" - count me out your certainty of that totality. With the foresight of the vaccine-buying programme, he's overseeing a way out of the Covid maze. He had A Plan. And that is what I ask of a Prime Minister.
Except for vaccines Boris is bad because he is reactive rather than proactive.
Everything Boris has done is by leaving things to the last second and then picking the only option left.
The UK has suffered twice as many deaths as Germany. My guess is that Germany will be there or there about when the final count up of vaccinations is done despite having approval later.
I haven't the slightest doubt that had Merkel been leading us through this pandemic we would in all respects be in a better place.
Apologies to all Boris worshipers but he's crap.
Merkel handling of first wave very good...then downhill from there...summer vacation policy, idiotic, diet lockdown equally stupid and went on for too long until they finally gave in and went for a proper one.
Why are we even discussing this? Transmitting Covid whilst riding a bike would be quite a challenge, whether it be 5, 7 or 20 miles. Who cares?
Shouldn`t we focus on basement parties and covert bars - you know, those indoor groupy things?
I would have thought, given the depth and regularity of breathing involved, plus 5e energetic expulsion of air from lungs, that it would actually be rather easy to spread Covid while riding a bike.
I don't know either way, and I'm not suggesting that we should create unnecessary problems for cyclists - if cycling is thought by scientists to be pretty safe from spreading infection, then let's include an exemption in the rules - "You can cycle as far as you like so long as you don't ghet off and walk around in another area" or whatever. Perhaps, if it's safe, we can use the opportunity to promote cycling. But don't make up an ambiguous rule and then appear to flout it.
Then we are down the rabbit hole of what about skateboards, what about....etc etc etc.
You just can't legislate or provide guidance for every possible situation in life.
What about walking? We sometimes go on 10 or 15 mile walks. Are they okay, This is getting silly.
Walking *for exercise* is fine, as is cycling. They should both be encouraged.
Note that neither of these activities involve stopping to meet friends in the park for an hour with a picnic, nor getting in the car to find a beauty spot - which is the behaviour being noted, and clamped down on, by authorities.
The aim is to encourage exercise. Surely you want the conditions for taking that exercise then to be as good as possible. Especially in this weather. Why the fuck not drive to a beauty spot and take along a coffee. Leave the hair shirt indoors.
The ratio of the time spent getting to and back from the exercise location compare to the time spent exercising would be a useful marker.
I suspect many who spent hours driving to Snowdonia or the Lake District did minimal actual exercise when they got there.
Well that's another issue. They weren't a risk while they were in their cars, though, so again, what's the big problem?
That's a fair point.
Whether extra road congestion or air pollution is a good thing is another issue.
Yes of course, and the increased likelihood of RTCs. But these are second order issues.
I do understand Boris is gorgeous and beyond reproach, but why is he cycling 7 miles from home in his suit? The suit must be honking! NutNuts will be furious at the dry cleaning bill.
This is a sceeen grab from a YouTube video which was found by searching for "Boris Cycling". It is not from his ride on Sunday.
My mistake.
Mr Johnson cycling is fine by me. At least it prevents him (in that moment, at least) doing something else that we might all live to regret.
On topic, as someone who has taken up cycling (mostly indoor cycling on a Roger Black and a Peloton, sorry Dura Ace) I can understand the bug Mike talks about.
That said, I still wouldn't like to cycle on the roads, I've seen too many idiotic drivers in action.
I once stood on the corner of Park Lane and Upper Grosvenor St in London for a bit, just watching the traffic (hugely busy road and intersection). There are traffic lights. But the number of near misses involving cyclists (90% cyclists' fault) was enormous.
I cycle *a lot* in London (or used to!) - up to 2hrs a day through the busiest parts. But I am/was on a Boris bike and I was the idiot who stopped at all the red lights. I would say around 5% of cyclists stop at red lights. Does my head in and I wish I had had special constable powers on my rides as I would have given out fines right, left, and Chelsea all day.
AFAIK it's only in London (and perhaps a few other big cities) that cyclists don't stop at red lights.
On topic, as someone who has taken up cycling (mostly indoor cycling on a Roger Black and a Peloton, sorry Dura Ace) I can understand the bug Mike talks about.
That said, I still wouldn't like to cycle on the roads, I've seen too many idiotic drivers in action.
I can go up and down virtual mountains from the comfort of my pain cave without getting cold or wet nor having to risk idiot drivers while watching Netflix...no brainer for me
Odd. There are plenty of mountain biking areas which are free of roads, and where you can enjoy the countryside and fresh air without resorting to yet another sterile, screen-based simulation of real life.
Worth pointing out that the London Borough of Newham, where the Olympic Park is located, has recorded more Covid cases than anywhere else in London, had the highest mortality rate from Covid in the first wave of anywhere in the UK, and is currently recording the second highest rate of new infections of anywhere in London, while London itself is facing an unprecedented medical emergency. Newham is also, not coincidentally, one of the most deprived areas of London. There are plenty of parks and cycle paths in Westminster, K&C etc for Johnson to cycle in. It pains me to say it, but I think OGH is wrong on this.
As I said previously, perhaps the image of hoity toity Boris in St. James's Park is not the one they thought would be useful.
I think, as others have said, to see our PM on a bike taking exercise is a good thing.
Do you think it is good to encourage people to travel to one of the worst Covid hot-spots in the UK and potentially spread a lethal illness among a community that has already seen the worst wave of death in the country? In my opinion, nothing expresses "hoity toity" Johnson's absurd life of self-absorbed privilege more than choosing to cycle round Newham when there are any number of locations closer to his home available.
Yeah, he's a dick over details. But he's in a park cycling. He is likely no closer or further away than he would be anywhere else, including St. James's Park. Olympic Park is 10x the size of St. James's.
Following the discussion last night on "why can't we let down all restrictions after the under-70s/under-60s/under-50s/under-40s are vaccinated?"
I took a look at that ONS page with the terrible data visualisation between infections, hospitalisations, and deaths, and translated the hospitalisations into raw numbers.
(Warning: up to date info on the age category numbers was only available for the UK as a whole and the data was for hospitalisations in England; I used it as an approximation as England's population is such a big proportion of the whole (82%) and it is likely that the age breakdown of hospitalisations won't be hugely different over the whole UK).
Conclusion: between the last week in November and the start of January:
The number of under-44 year olds hospitalised in w/e 3rd January was greater than the number of 85+ year olds hospitalised in w/e 29 November
The number of 45-64 year olds hospitalised in w/e 3rd January was larger than the number of 85+ year olds and 75-84-year-olds hospitalised in w/e 29 November put together.
This. Completely uncontrolled, COVID would overwhelm hospitals, even for "lower risk" groups.
I find people dying in the street untidy. Especially if it is me.
There is no world in which Johnson, 56, is in his "early 50s".
Fuck off. I`m 56 and I am.
I'm 60 in 12 days, and I still consider myself in my early 50s.
I'm a day older than you. We are "The Tiswas" generation. Where were you born and will you be celebrating your birthday? if so, how?
24th is my bd. We live in Pembrokeshire now, luckily very quiet and relatively safer. We shall prolly just have a steak meal or something. Tiswas was brilliant, I watched it from when it was only a local ATV programme in staffs. I went to a grammar school and started off watching swap shop, but it was nice to slum it with Tiswas with the sec mod crowd..
Do you live anywhere near Slebech? There's a brilliant hotel there which we visited regularly before lockdown.
Can't wait to get back.
Tiwas was a superb programme with extraordinarily talented presented - Chris Tarrant, Lenny Henry, Frank Carson, Bob Carolgees and Spit the Dog. CT tried an adult version later (Over The Top) but it died at birth, largely through political correctness, I think.
In all this 'chaff' about rule making/keeping/breaking one thing stands out. Every morning I have a look at the BBC's 'The Papers' and once upon a time the Star had a nonsense headline just about every day. Now it's relentlessly mocking the PM. Yes, I know the Star has a minuscule readership, but it's still there, and, when (if) it's readers vote, the idea of being led by a clown might not appeal. To most anyway. I also note that the once unqualified support for the Tories from the Mail's headline writers seems to be evaporating.
Mail under Remain supporting editor have been one of the most critical of the government covid handling. Even Monday, when basically every other paper had fairly good headline for government over vaccine roll out, they had Betrayal.....care home residents not been vaccinated quickly enough.
Another example of ascribing motivation to the Remain/Leave divide where there is no obvious reason to do so.
The Mail's stance on Covid is much more likely to be motivated by the fact that everyone, even Mail Tory loyalists, can see that Johnson's performance has been dire, perhaps the worst of any world leader aside from Trump. Remain/leave has nothing to do with it.
For some (disproportionately in the media), Boris is Leave. Leave was Very Bad, so Boris is Very Bad. All stories must point to Boris being Very Bad. These people can only see Boris' performance on Covid as having been Very Bad. Despite us now having one of the better news stories over battling Covid with the vaccines.
So when you say "everyone, even Mail Tory loyalists, can see that Johnson's performance has been dire" - count me out your certainty of that totality. With the foresight of the vaccine-buying programme, he's overseeing a way out of the Covid maze. He had A Plan. And that is what I ask of a Prime Minister.
For some (disproportionately in the media), Boris is Leave. Leave was Very Good, so Boris is Very Good. All stories must point to Boris being Very Good. These people can only see Boris' performance on Covid as having been Very Good. Despite us now having one of the bitter news stories over Covid numbers.
On topic, as someone who has taken up cycling (mostly indoor cycling on a Roger Black and a Peloton, sorry Dura Ace) I can understand the bug Mike talks about.
That said, I still wouldn't like to cycle on the roads, I've seen too many idiotic drivers in action.
I once stood on the corner of Park Lane and Upper Grosvenor St in London for a bit, just watching the traffic (hugely busy road and intersection). There are traffic lights. But the number of near misses involving cyclists (90% cyclists' fault) was enormous.
I cycle *a lot* in London (or used to!) - up to 2hrs a day through the busiest parts. But I am/was on a Boris bike and I was the idiot who stopped at all the red lights. I would say around 5% of cyclists stop at red lights. Does my head in and I wish I had had special constable powers on my rides as I would have given out fines right, left, and Chelsea all day.
When I did one of my French cycle trips I had to ride from Waterloo to the Eurostar early in the morning on a workday. It was a protected cycle lane more or less all the way, yet I was terrified, not by the cars but by the other cyclists. They were mad.
Re Boris - his main crime re this cycling trip was making himself a hostage to fortune. Did it not cross his mind this nonsense might crop up. Not a good political antenna.
Of more concern to me is why the government is not insisting on a negative Covid test for travellers from Ireland, given the very high rates of infection there.
Also why are the courts still insisting that lawyers have to attend courts for hearings which are perfectly doable remotely? There have been a number of cases of people catching Covid as a result.
I don't trust the police to understand or enforce the rules fairly. But some people are certainly taking the piss. Common-sense is what is needed. I could easily walk for 3 hours outside my front door well beyond 7 miles without seeing a living soul. In London it is that much harder to go for exercise without being close to people.
The key message must surely be this: when you absolutely have to go out wear a mask and try and stay as far away as possible from other people.
Cycling 7 miles in London is nothing. That was my daily one way commute when I cycled to work regularly. But driving somewhere to cycle seems a bit off when there are plenty of parks nearby where the PM could run, walk or cycle (though some of the Royal Parks can be a bit sniffy about cyclists so that might explain it).
Anyway it is a gorgeous day here so I am off to the hills.
In terms of Western countries who have handled covid well we are now down to Australia and New Zealand. Australian arguably the best of the two, as some large population densities and they actually had COVID seeded without them knowing at the start of the pandemic. So they first managed to squish it and then keep it near non-existent (if the security guards hadn't shagged those in isolation, they had no significant outbreaks at all after the initial one).
Following the discussion last night on "why can't we let down all restrictions after the under-70s/under-60s/under-50s/under-40s are vaccinated?"
I took a look at that ONS page with the terrible data visualisation between infections, hospitalisations, and deaths, and translated the hospitalisations into raw numbers.
(Warning: up to date info on the age category numbers was only available for the UK as a whole and the data was for hospitalisations in England; I used it as an approximation as England's population is such a big proportion of the whole (82%) and it is likely that the age breakdown of hospitalisations won't be hugely different over the whole UK).
Conclusion: between the last week in November and the start of January:
The number of under-44 year olds hospitalised in w/e 3rd January was greater than the number of 85+ year olds hospitalised in w/e 29 November
The number of 45-64 year olds hospitalised in w/e 3rd January was larger than the number of 85+ year olds and 75-84-year-olds hospitalised in w/e 29 November put together.
This. Completely uncontrolled, COVID would overwhelm hospitals, even for "lower risk" groups.
I find people dying in the street untidy. Especially if it is me.
You might need to show your working. Remember that thousands of younger people will be vaccinated as part of the priority groups, as part of Group 6. By the time run through the priority vaccinations, the only people who remain are under 50s with no comorbidities – a group for whom the risk from Covid is very low indeed.
Worth pointing out that the London Borough of Newham, where the Olympic Park is located, has recorded more Covid cases than anywhere else in London, had the highest mortality rate from Covid in the first wave of anywhere in the UK, and is currently recording the second highest rate of new infections of anywhere in London, while London itself is facing an unprecedented medical emergency. Newham is also, not coincidentally, one of the most deprived areas of London. There are plenty of parks and cycle paths in Westminster, K&C etc for Johnson to cycle in. It pains me to say it, but I think OGH is wrong on this.
As I said previously, perhaps the image of hoity toity Boris in St. James's Park is not the one they thought would be useful.
I think, as others have said, to see our PM on a bike taking exercise is a good thing.
Do you think it is good to encourage people to travel to one of the worst Covid hot-spots in the UK and potentially spread a lethal illness among a community that has already seen the worst wave of death in the country? In my opinion, nothing expresses "hoity toity" Johnson's absurd life of self-absorbed privilege more than choosing to cycle round Newham when there are any number of locations closer to his home available.
Yeah, he's a dick over details. But he's in a park cycling. He is likely no closer or further away than he would be anywhere else, including St. James's Park. Olympic Park is 10x the size of St. James's.
Olympic Park is big but it was quite crowded the last time I went (pre 2020). If Johnson wanted a long cycle ride he could have done several circuits locally. If he was driven there then the choice to ride his bike in the worst Covid hot-spot in the country is frankly bizarre.
On topic, as someone who has taken up cycling (mostly indoor cycling on a Roger Black and a Peloton, sorry Dura Ace) I can understand the bug Mike talks about.
That said, I still wouldn't like to cycle on the roads, I've seen too many idiotic drivers in action.
I can go up and down virtual mountains from the comfort of my pain cave without getting cold or wet nor having to risk idiot drivers while watching Netflix...no brainer for me
Odd. There are plenty of mountain biking areas which are free of roads, and where you can enjoy the countryside and fresh air without resorting to yet another sterile, screen-based simulation of real life.
Of more concern to me is why the government is not insisting on a negative Covid test for travellers from Ireland, given the very high rates of infection there.
Also why are the courts still insisting that lawyers have to attend courts for hearings which are perfectly doable remotely? There have been a number of cases of people catching Covid as a result.
I don't trust the police to understand or enforce the rules fairly. But some people are certainly taking the piss. Common-sense is what is needed. I could easily walk for 3 hours outside my front door well beyond 7 miles without seeing a living soul. In London it is that much harder to go for exercise without being close to people.
The key message must surely be this: when you absolutely have to go out wear a mask and try and stay as far away as possible from other people.
Cycling 7 miles in London is nothing. That was my daily one way commute when I cycled to work regularly. But driving somewhere to cycle seems a bit off when there are plenty of parks nearby where the PM could run, walk or cycle (though some of the Royal Parks can be a bit sniffy about cyclists so that might explain it).
Anyway it is a gorgeous day here so I am off to the hills.
Enjoy. And I mean if there's one person on here who should be in favour of Boris' actions...
On topic, as someone who has taken up cycling (mostly indoor cycling on a Roger Black and a Peloton, sorry Dura Ace) I can understand the bug Mike talks about.
That said, I still wouldn't like to cycle on the roads, I've seen too many idiotic drivers in action.
I once stood on the corner of Park Lane and Upper Grosvenor St in London for a bit, just watching the traffic (hugely busy road and intersection). There are traffic lights. But the number of near misses involving cyclists (90% cyclists' fault) was enormous.
I cycle *a lot* in London (or used to!) - up to 2hrs a day through the busiest parts. But I am/was on a Boris bike and I was the idiot who stopped at all the red lights. I would say around 5% of cyclists stop at red lights. Does my head in and I wish I had had special constable powers on my rides as I would have given out fines right, left, and Chelsea all day.
When I did one of my French cycle trips I had to ride from Waterloo to the Eurostar early in the morning on a workday. It was a protected cycle lane more or less all the way, yet I was terrified, not by the cars but by the other cyclists. They were mad.
Re Boris - his main crime re this cycling trip was making himself a hostage to fortune. Did it not cross his mind this nonsense might crop up. Not a good political antenna.
His only crime was assuming that people have more sense than to obsess about such trivialities.
Following the discussion last night on "why can't we let down all restrictions after the under-70s/under-60s/under-50s/under-40s are vaccinated?"
I took a look at that ONS page with the terrible data visualisation between infections, hospitalisations, and deaths, and translated the hospitalisations into raw numbers.
(Warning: up to date info on the age category numbers was only available for the UK as a whole and the data was for hospitalisations in England; I used it as an approximation as England's population is such a big proportion of the whole (82%) and it is likely that the age breakdown of hospitalisations won't be hugely different over the whole UK).
Conclusion: between the last week in November and the start of January:
The number of under-44 year olds hospitalised in w/e 3rd January was greater than the number of 85+ year olds hospitalised in w/e 29 November
The number of 45-64 year olds hospitalised in w/e 3rd January was larger than the number of 85+ year olds and 75-84-year-olds hospitalised in w/e 29 November put together.
This. Completely uncontrolled, COVID would overwhelm hospitals, even for "lower risk" groups.
I find people dying in the street untidy. Especially if it is me.
As you complete vaccination of tier after tier R will collapse as herd immunity increases.
Worth pointing out that the London Borough of Newham, where the Olympic Park is located, has recorded more Covid cases than anywhere else in London, had the highest mortality rate from Covid in the first wave of anywhere in the UK, and is currently recording the second highest rate of new infections of anywhere in London, while London itself is facing an unprecedented medical emergency. Newham is also, not coincidentally, one of the most deprived areas of London. There are plenty of parks and cycle paths in Westminster, K&C etc for Johnson to cycle in. It pains me to say it, but I think OGH is wrong on this.
As I said previously, perhaps the image of hoity toity Boris in St. James's Park is not the one they thought would be useful.
I think, as others have said, to see our PM on a bike taking exercise is a good thing.
Do you think it is good to encourage people to travel to one of the worst Covid hot-spots in the UK and potentially spread a lethal illness among a community that has already seen the worst wave of death in the country? In my opinion, nothing expresses "hoity toity" Johnson's absurd life of self-absorbed privilege more than choosing to cycle round Newham when there are any number of locations closer to his home available.
Yeah, he's a dick over details. But he's in a park cycling. He is likely no closer or further away than he would be anywhere else, including St. James's Park. Olympic Park is 10x the size of St. James's.
Olympic Park is big but it was quite crowded the last time I went (pre 2020). If Johnson wanted a long cycle ride he could have done several circuits locally. If he was driven there then the choice to ride his bike in the worst Covid hot-spot in the country is frankly bizarre.
As I said, there's a lot in the positive column - park of the people, representing the UK at a time when it was proud of itself and largely undivided (to an unprecedented degree, actually, thinking about it), and setting an example of exercising.
That of course doesn't mean the negative column is empty.
Great news on the vaccines, maybe this is what everyone should be talking about.
4th in the world on vaccines per capita, behind two small nations and one tiny one, and well ahead of all the G20 and EU27 nations.
Sadly, good news doesn’t generate clicks or sell papers.
The cycle-wank is BECAUSE of this good news on vaccines. There are some whose minds are so swimming in hatred, they just cannot bear the idea of our PM being seen to do a great job on something, for once. Especially when that something is the biggest challenge facing our nation.
So there must be chaff thrown out, to hide the positive. Even at the cost of being made to look total pillocks. Retaining ther reputation doesn't matter. Trashing the PM's does.
They are going to totally lose their shit when the voters mark his Covid scorecard: "Good start, lousy middle, strong finish."
I think that you will find that voters are infamously ungrateful.
The UK is doing well on vaccines because we do have an NHS that is specifically designed for such purposes.
Government vaccine policy has been far from perfect though, and in particular the single dose gambit could come very unstuck if it fails to suppress the disease.
It's mad that we are not doing a trial comparing the single and double dose approach. Genuinely a decision that could save hundreds of thousands of lives.
We basically are, so long as we're collecting sufficient data.
On topic, as someone who has taken up cycling (mostly indoor cycling on a Roger Black and a Peloton, sorry Dura Ace) I can understand the bug Mike talks about.
That said, I still wouldn't like to cycle on the roads, I've seen too many idiotic drivers in action.
I can go up and down virtual mountains from the comfort of my pain cave without getting cold or wet nor having to risk idiot drivers while watching Netflix...no brainer for me
Odd. There are plenty of mountain biking areas which are free of roads, and where you can enjoy the countryside and fresh air without resorting to yet another sterile, screen-based simulation of real life.
Real life, sounds terrible...
Well that's where you and I differ. You seem perfectly happy to lock yourself inside all day. A life without fresh air, birdsong, the wind in your hair, is no sort of life for many of us. A bike ride, a good walk – these are very important for lots of people. If you are happy with your computer, bully for you.
Worth pointing out that the London Borough of Newham, where the Olympic Park is located, has recorded more Covid cases than anywhere else in London, had the highest mortality rate from Covid in the first wave of anywhere in the UK, and is currently recording the second highest rate of new infections of anywhere in London, while London itself is facing an unprecedented medical emergency. Newham is also, not coincidentally, one of the most deprived areas of London. There are plenty of parks and cycle paths in Westminster, K&C etc for Johnson to cycle in. It pains me to say it, but I think OGH is wrong on this.
As I said previously, perhaps the image of hoity toity Boris in St. James's Park is not the one they thought would be useful.
I think, as others have said, to see our PM on a bike taking exercise is a good thing.
Do you think it is good to encourage people to travel to one of the worst Covid hot-spots in the UK and potentially spread a lethal illness among a community that has already seen the worst wave of death in the country? In my opinion, nothing expresses "hoity toity" Johnson's absurd life of self-absorbed privilege more than choosing to cycle round Newham when there are any number of locations closer to his home available.
Yeah, he's a dick over details. But he's in a park cycling. He is likely no closer or further away than he would be anywhere else, including St. James's Park. Olympic Park is 10x the size of St. James's.
Olympic Park is big but it was quite crowded the last time I went (pre 2020). If Johnson wanted a long cycle ride he could have done several circuits locally. If he was driven there then the choice to ride his bike in the worst Covid hot-spot in the country is frankly bizarre.
On topic, as someone who has taken up cycling (mostly indoor cycling on a Roger Black and a Peloton, sorry Dura Ace) I can understand the bug Mike talks about.
That said, I still wouldn't like to cycle on the roads, I've seen too many idiotic drivers in action.
I can go up and down virtual mountains from the comfort of my pain cave without getting cold or wet nor having to risk idiot drivers while watching Netflix...no brainer for me
Same here.
Have to admit, cycling whilst watching the cricket does wonders for me.
When I bought my flat in Soho there was a huge mirror above the bed. Obviously an expensive feature so I was loathe to get rid of it. It was only when one of my neighbours came visiting to get some redecorating tips and I saw her backing out of the door that I had a rethink.
On topic, as someone who has taken up cycling (mostly indoor cycling on a Roger Black and a Peloton, sorry Dura Ace) I can understand the bug Mike talks about.
That said, I still wouldn't like to cycle on the roads, I've seen too many idiotic drivers in action.
I can go up and down virtual mountains from the comfort of my pain cave without getting cold or wet nor having to risk idiot drivers while watching Netflix...no brainer for me
Odd. There are plenty of mountain biking areas which are free of roads, and where you can enjoy the countryside and fresh air without resorting to yet another sterile, screen-based simulation of real life.
Real life, sounds terrible...
I say this genuinely, because you are a poster on here who I always read and I respect. But that response, together with your "pain cave" (tmi?) situation does explain much of your attitude to lockdown = lock us down long and hard.
For people on the 12th floor of a council tower block, their basement pain cave is their downstairs neighbour's sitting room.
He was stupid to do anything that could create any sense of ambiguity about the stay at home message or add to the sense that there is one rule for the elite and another for everyone else. It's not a resigning matter but it's another example of why Johnson is such a poor PM.
I've not commented on this up to now as I don't think that targeting individuals (even the PM) is usually helpeful, but since Mike raises it, I think OLB's argument is the point, not the 7 miles itself. The policy is ambiguous (originally it was announced with a time limit which disappeared in the detailed guidance), there is no definition of local, and advice on whether you can drive to a spot where you'd like to walk and how far that can be is missing. To highlight an ambiguous policy with the PM's behaviour pushing at the boundary, and then refuse to give details simply adds to the confusion.
If the rule was "You can exercise on foot or by bike for N hours" or "at a distance of X", then I'm absolutely in favour of Johnson being able to do exactly that without anyone hassling him. But the position is unclear and the PM and his spokespeople are evasive about it, which absolurtely encourages people to do the sort of dodgy compromise with the semi-formulated rules that is perpetuating the pandemic longer than necessary.
Personally I favour a limit of say 4 miles, and if you want to exercise more, you can go round again. That's boring, someone might say? Don't waste our time with piffle - people are putting up with much worse. But any reasonable, clear rule would also be fine.
People should use their judgement
Derbyshire police were idiots
Boris has behaved reasonably in the context
The problem with the 4m limit is I can imagine that in central London there are parts where you would be forcing everyone to a very limited amount of open space
Names are much underestimated in a child's future prospects. Early branding with a catchy name is one of the greatest gifts a parent can give. Who would have heard of Stirling Moss all these years later if he'd been a Chitwetel Ejiofor?
She might not be a great policewoman but how many other policewomen can anyone name?
Did you see the edition of the TV game show "Pointless" when a contestant identified a photo of Cressida Dick as Caressa Dick?
Comments
No, wait, let me rephrase that..
A noble aim, if that is what is going on, but fraught with practical difficulties, as we are seeing.
It's not like hes finally slipped up and given us the opportunity, the wily, disciplined devil. He stumbles his words, u turns or messes up a policy most weeks.
If people are still bringing this up come next week it will tell me they must think hes doing a good job as they cannot think of anything else to go on.
And yet bar a few things hes not doing a good job.
It's better if it's raining then you just piss yourself. Done it many times.
The fact the government handling has been poor is absolutely fair criticism. But I gave a specific example where even a decent day for the government, they found a negative headline (which turned out to be pretty false).
My point isn't that the Mail is critical of the government, that's fine, just pointing out the new management is far from the big cheerleaders of current Tories they were under Dacre. But it isn't that it is evaporating now, it has been the case for a long time (while trying to walk tightrope that the readership isn't as hostile).
He probably means dont go too far but that's the problem hammering home only thr slogan on it's own several times.
Present government policy seems designed to ensure that most people can only exercise in densely packed outdoor space, rather than driving a bit further to enjoy a country walk in relative isolation.
It would also encourage people to explore their local area rather than think you have to go to a national park in order to walk two miles.
Note that neither of these activities involve stopping to meet friends in the park for an hour with a picnic, nor getting in the car to find a beauty spot - which is the behaviour being noted, and clamped down on, by authorities.
So when you say "everyone, even Mail Tory loyalists, can see that Johnson's performance has been dire" - count me out your certainty of that totality. With the foresight of the vaccine-buying programme, he's overseeing a way out of the Covid maze. He had A Plan. And that is what I ask of a Prime Minister.
Everything Boris has done is by leaving things to the last second and then picking the only option left.
I think, as others have said, to see our PM on a bike taking exercise is a good thing.
In my area we have a squad of cyclists, whom I have dubbed The Fat Men On Fixies. Every single one has a very expensive bike, gleaming with it's lack of use, Which they ride badly - some of them quite clearly have issue controlling direction. And in the entire length of lockdown, none of them seems to have reduced in size.
Compared to them, the local mums and dads shepherding their ducklings in a line, on Halfords finest, seem... harmless
She might not be a great policewoman but how many other policewomen can anyone name?
I could jog up and down my street and inadvertently get too close to more people than going 15 miles on a bike on roads with a covering over my mouth.
Although did I read they have cancelled the fine?
The day when every copper has a video recording device on them recording everything they say and do cannot come soon enough.
Criticize the government if you want - there are certainly aspects where it has failed badly or made the wrong decisions.
But don't pretend that your claims of 'worst in the world' are anything more than general dislike of Boris and the Conservative party.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-55625062
Those "fatties" are out getting exercise and, it sounds, could probably beat you in a hill sprint or on the flat. You should be celebrating the fact that they are getting off their arses and getting on their arses, so to speak, to exercise.
Are you in your car when you get so irritated by them? And what does it matter what they spend on their bike?
Eye of the beholder, really. A reasonable person would conclude that there have been both successes and failures in the government handling of Covid-19. They've got some things right straight off the bat, but also failed to correct the same errors they've been making from the start.
The Russians and Chinese get issued "Magic Underpants" with built in plumbing. Not guaranteed to be new.
I suspect many who spent hours driving to Snowdonia or the Lake District did minimal actual exercise when they got there.
No one is saying relax the social distancing requirements in either place.
That said, I still wouldn't like to cycle on the roads, I've seen too many idiotic drivers in action.
I took a look at that ONS page with the terrible data visualisation between infections, hospitalisations, and deaths, and translated the hospitalisations into raw numbers.
(Warning: up to date info on the age category numbers was only available for the UK as a whole and the data was for hospitalisations in England; I used it as an approximation as England's population is such a big proportion of the whole (82%) and it is likely that the age breakdown of hospitalisations won't be hugely different over the whole UK).
Conclusion: between the last week in November and the start of January:
The number of under-44 year olds hospitalised in w/e 3rd January was greater than the number of 85+ year olds hospitalised in w/e 29 November
The number of 45-64 year olds hospitalised in w/e 3rd January was larger than the number of 85+ year olds and 75-84-year-olds hospitalised in w/e 29 November put together.
I haven't the slightest doubt that had Merkel been leading us through this pandemic we would in all respects be in a better place.
Apologies to all Boris worshipers but he's crap.
Thank goodness they didn't photograph him in his Lycra.
Whether extra road congestion or air pollution is a good thing is another issue.
One day, we will look back on this collective madness and think: “What happened to us all?”
Have to admit, cycling whilst watching the cricket does wonders for me.
I cycle *a lot* in London (or used to!) - up to 2hrs a day through the busiest parts. But I am/was on a Boris bike and I was the idiot who stopped at all the red lights. I would say around 5% of cyclists stop at red lights. Does my head in and I wish I had had special constable powers on my rides as I would have given out fines right, left, and Chelsea all day.
Mr Johnson cycling is fine by me. At least it prevents him (in that moment, at least) doing something else that we might all live to regret.
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnson-cycle-7-miles-downing-street-olympic-park-b827961.html
I find people dying in the street untidy. Especially if it is me.
Can't wait to get back.
Tiwas was a superb programme with extraordinarily talented presented - Chris Tarrant, Lenny Henry, Frank Carson, Bob Carolgees and Spit the Dog. CT tried an adult version later (Over The Top) but it died at birth, largely through political correctness, I think.
Re Boris - his main crime re this cycling trip was making himself a hostage to fortune. Did it not cross his mind this nonsense might crop up. Not a good political antenna.
Also why are the courts still insisting that lawyers have to attend courts for hearings which are perfectly doable remotely? There have been a number of cases of people catching Covid as a result.
I don't trust the police to understand or enforce the rules fairly. But some people are certainly taking the piss. Common-sense is what is needed. I could easily walk for 3 hours outside my front door well beyond 7 miles without seeing a living soul. In London it is that much harder to go for exercise without being close to people.
The key message must surely be this: when you absolutely have to go out wear a mask and try and stay as far away as possible from other people.
Cycling 7 miles in London is nothing. That was my daily one way commute when I cycled to work regularly. But driving somewhere to cycle seems a bit off when there are plenty of parks nearby where the PM could run, walk or cycle (though some of the Royal Parks can be a bit sniffy about cyclists so that might explain it).
Anyway it is a gorgeous day here so I am off to the hills.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/covid-19-vaccination-care-home-and-healthcare-settings-posters/covid-19-vaccination-first-phase-priority-groups
That of course doesn't mean the negative column is empty.
For people on the 12th floor of a council tower block, their basement pain cave is their downstairs neighbour's sitting room.
Derbyshire police were idiots
Boris has behaved reasonably in the context
The problem with the 4m limit is I can imagine that in central London there are parts where you would be forcing everyone to a very limited amount of open space