In a rather happier O/T my son has got an offer to study PPE at St Anne's next year. I am chuffed to bits for him.
Now that is absolutely excellent news. My congratulations to him - and, if I may, to his parents for, I have no doubt, their encouragement and support.
OT. There is a woman on Death Row in the US about to be executed. The last time a woman was executed in the US was 1953. Ruth Ellis* the last woman executed in the UK was in 1955. This is surprising. I always though the US could out barbaric the UK any day even with a Tory government.
(*I photographed her daughter Georgie)
I used to drink in the pub where Ruth shot her baby down.
Following the discussion last night on "why can't we let down all restrictions after the under-70s/under-60s/under-50s/under-40s are vaccinated?"
I took a look at that ONS page with the terrible data visualisation between infections, hospitalisations, and deaths, and translated the hospitalisations into raw numbers.
(Warning: up to date info on the age category numbers was only available for the UK as a whole and the data was for hospitalisations in England; I used it as an approximation as England's population is such a big proportion of the whole (82%) and it is likely that the age breakdown of hospitalisations won't be hugely different over the whole UK).
Conclusion: between the last week in November and the start of January:
The number of under-44 year olds hospitalised in w/e 3rd January was greater than the number of 85+ year olds hospitalised in w/e 29 November
The number of 45-64 year olds hospitalised in w/e 3rd January was larger than the number of 85+ year olds and 75-84-year-olds hospitalised in w/e 29 November put together.
This. Completely uncontrolled, COVID would overwhelm hospitals, even for "lower risk" groups.
I find people dying in the street untidy. Especially if it is me.
You might need to show your working. Remember that thousands of younger people will be vaccinated as part of the priority groups, as part of Group 6. By the time run through the priority vaccinations, the only people who remain are under 50s with no comorbidities – a group for whom the risk from Covid is very low indeed.
What's the IFR for those groups without hospital assistance (the "natural" IFR)? I mean, they're not in hospital for fun.
I make it that the approximate risk of hospitalisation for a 47-year-old (which I do look at, because I'm 47) is around 2.0%, compared to a death rate of under 0.2%. Assuming that hospitalisation occurs because it is needed to protect life (otherwise, why hospitalise them?), the natural IFR for someone in their late forties would be considerably closer to 2% than 0.2%.
We often quote the "about 1%" IFR for the virus as a whole and then say "but that's heavily skewed by the elderly" The hospitalisation rate looks to go past 1% at around age 37. Hospitalisation rates are a lot less subject to co-morbidities. They seem to be more likely to what will push you over the edge into death even when hospitalised.
If hospitals get overwhelmed, we will find out first hand what the natural IFR (without medical intervention) actually is. And it is nowhere near as low as it is with medical intervention, and the difference is overwhelmingly likely to be greatest for the young and those without co-morbidities (age and co-morbidities are what makes medical intervention less likely to help).
Here's a graphic to show the difference in hospitalisation by age and how it changed between the end of November and the start of January.
Your graph isn't a great deal of use for this discussion, because yet again it captures everyone in those age groups, rather than just those without underlying health conditions.
How many people under 40/under 50, nationwide, without comorbidities, have
a) died and b) been hospitalised
by Covid 19?
I have a good idea on a), as the NHS publishes this data (it's a remarkably low number). But we need to know b) – and I'm not sure there is an official source for it?
It's a fair question.
b) is indeed far harder to find; I've been keeping a close watch for any data like that for a while.
They did have data on the (fortunately very few) children who were hospitalised early in the first wave: the majority had no co-morbidities at all; even the majority of those on ventilators had no co-morbidities. The very very few deaths were, however, overwhelmingly concentrated in those with co-morbidities.
ICNARC publish their report and they do list co-morbidities, but those are severe co-morbidities (not like the ones listed on the NHS data for deaths, which include asthma). Those severe co-morbidities are again in a minority (a very small minority) in the ICU admissions, but the deaths tend to skew towards them noticeably.
It does seem to point towards co-morbidities (especially less severe ones) not protecting much from hospitalisation, but very possibly making a crucial difference once you are hospitalised.
EDIT: And once we're well under way with vaccinations (hopefully) passing 4 million a week, each 10 year age band should take about a fortnight or so, possibly less. On top of that, as herd immunity swells (hopefully), restrictions should be progressively able to be lightened without overwhelming hospitals, anyway. We could be arguing over a fourteen day period under Tier 1 or lighter.
She can have a view on it, she cant unilaterally decide her view is the law. It is perfectly legal to exercise by running:
from work to home from support bubble to work from shops to home from education location to any of the above
etc. If I was being petulant I would also point out there are some who need to exercise their eyes by travelling 350 miles.
It is also entirely lawful (and reasonable) to exercise by running:
from somewhere you've driven to that is appropriate to exercise in and back to your car again.
Yes and no. The real world problem police like in Derbyshire are trying to prevent is large numbers of people choosing the same location. The longer the distance allowed and the looser the guidelines, the more likely it is that everyone will congregate on the same small number of beauty spots.
Admittedly we are probably safe in today's miserable weather
Beautiful weather outside now. Looking forward to getting out at lunchtime.
And surely using the gravity model of exercise (?!), the further away a place, the fewer people are likely to congregate there?
Just because it's far away from you, doesn't mean it's far away from other people, outlining the flaw in the gravity model nicely for everyone there.
There is no world in which Johnson, 56, is in his "early 50s".
Fuck off. I`m 56 and I am.
I'm 60 in 12 days, and I still consider myself in my early 50s.
I'm a day older than you. We are "The Tiswas" generation. Where were you born and will you be celebrating your birthday? if so, how?
24th is my bd. We live in Pembrokeshire now, luckily very quiet and relatively safer. We shall prolly just have a steak meal or something. Tiswas was brilliant, I watched it from when it was only a local ATV programme in staffs. I went to a grammar school and started off watching swap shop, but it was nice to slum it with Tiswas with the sec mod crowd..
I was born in Birmingham and still live in Birmingham. The birth place of "Tiswas". It was great show.
I was born in Loveday Street Maternity Hospital in Birmingham City Centre. Loveday Street still exists but not the Maternity Hospital. I was planning to walk into the City along the canal paths, to Loveday Street and back again, and take in a few hostelries on the journey. Bit sad to do it now that all the pubs are shut. Might still do it though.
Angela Merkel, the German chancellor, has suggested Germany’s current hard lockdown may last another eight to ten weeks, with health officials particularly concerned about the spread of the new, far more contagious variant from the UK, which is thought to have been in Germany for several weeks.
He was stupid to do anything that could create any sense of ambiguity about the stay at home message or add to the sense that there is one rule for the elite and another for everyone else. It's not a resigning matter but it's another example of why Johnson is such a poor PM.
I've not commented on this up to now as I don't think that targeting individuals (even the PM) is usually helpeful, but since Mike raises it, I think OLB's argument is the point, not the 7 miles itself. The policy is ambiguous (originally it was announced with a time limit which disappeared in the detailed guidance), there is no definition of local, and advice on whether you can drive to a spot where you'd like to walk and how far that can be is missing. To highlight an ambiguous policy with the PM's behaviour pushing at the boundary, and then refuse to give details simply adds to the confusion.
If the rule was "You can exercise on foot or by bike for N hours" or "at a distance of X", then I'm absolutely in favour of Johnson being able to do exactly that without anyone hassling him. But the position is unclear and the PM and his spokespeople are evasive about it, which absolurtely encourages people to do the sort of dodgy compromise with the semi-formulated rules that is perpetuating the pandemic longer than necessary.
Personally I favour a limit of say 4 miles, and if you want to exercise more, you can go round again. That's boring, someone might say? Don't waste our time with piffle - people are putting up with much worse. But any reasonable, clear rule would also be fine.
People should use their judgement
Derbyshire police were idiots
Boris has behaved reasonably in the context
The problem with the 4m limit is I can imagine that in central London there are parts where you would be forcing everyone to a very limited amount of open space
Part of the problem as I see it is the London media objecting to 7m as if it is some mad distance.
7m isn't really that long a walk in the shires, let alone a long cycle.
I think the law is drafted very well. Restrictions on individual liberty are already onerous (and in my view, go overboard), there is no need to tighten.
In the context of an infectious disease pandemic there is a big difference between a seven mile walk in the countryside and the same distance in an urban conurbation. Show me where in the Shires a seven mile walk would take you within a short distance on millions of homes?
Maybe but it's too complicated to have one law for city dwellers and another for everyone else.
There isn't a different law though. The rules say you should stay in your local area. Clearly Newham and Westminster are not in the same area (otherwise they could not have such different Covid infection rates and wouldn't be different London boroughs), whereas two hamlets in a sparsely populated shire seven miles apart might be. I think the rules are fairly clear and Johnson has at the very least pushed them to their limit. Add the fact that he chose to travel to the Borough with one of the highest number of Covid cases in the UK and I think it looks like a really poor choice. Not a resigning matter, but not unimportant.
Newham and Westminster are the same area, they're both London. They have the same Mayor. They're segments of the same city. 🤷🏻♂️
That's a pretty dumb response. London has a population of over 9 million people and covers 1,572 Square km. The fact that you are suggesting that that is what is meant by a local area in the lockdown rules (because you want to let the PM off the hook) is actually a perfect example of how Johnson's actions have made it harder to contain the spread of the virus.
In a rather happier O/T my son has got an offer to study PPE at St Anne's next year. I am chuffed to bits for him.
Now that is absolutely excellent news. My congratulations to him - and, if I may, to his parents for, I have no doubt, their encouragement and support.
Thanks. I was fortunate enough to marry a very clever woman who is due much of the credit.
OT. There is a woman on Death Row in the US about to be executed. The last time a woman was executed in the US was 1953. Ruth Ellis* the last woman executed in the UK was in 1955. This is surprising. I always though the US could out barbaric the UK any day even with a Tory government.
(*I photographed her daughter Georgie)
I used to drink in the pub where Ruth shot her baby down.
Quite an obscure fact but the last 2 women executed in the UK (Ruth Ellis & Styllou Christofi) committed their murders on exactly the same road (South Hill Park in Hampstead). Less than 100 metres and 1 year apart but very different crimes.
Following the discussion last night on "why can't we let down all restrictions after the under-70s/under-60s/under-50s/under-40s are vaccinated?"
I took a look at that ONS page with the terrible data visualisation between infections, hospitalisations, and deaths, and translated the hospitalisations into raw numbers.
(Warning: up to date info on the age category numbers was only available for the UK as a whole and the data was for hospitalisations in England; I used it as an approximation as England's population is such a big proportion of the whole (82%) and it is likely that the age breakdown of hospitalisations won't be hugely different over the whole UK).
Conclusion: between the last week in November and the start of January:
The number of under-44 year olds hospitalised in w/e 3rd January was greater than the number of 85+ year olds hospitalised in w/e 29 November
The number of 45-64 year olds hospitalised in w/e 3rd January was larger than the number of 85+ year olds and 75-84-year-olds hospitalised in w/e 29 November put together.
This. Completely uncontrolled, COVID would overwhelm hospitals, even for "lower risk" groups.
I find people dying in the street untidy. Especially if it is me.
You might need to show your working. Remember that thousands of younger people will be vaccinated as part of the priority groups, as part of Group 6. By the time run through the priority vaccinations, the only people who remain are under 50s with no comorbidities – a group for whom the risk from Covid is very low indeed.
What's the IFR for those groups without hospital assistance (the "natural" IFR)? I mean, they're not in hospital for fun.
I make it that the approximate risk of hospitalisation for a 47-year-old (which I do look at, because I'm 47) is around 2.0%, compared to a death rate of under 0.2%. Assuming that hospitalisation occurs because it is needed to protect life (otherwise, why hospitalise them?), the natural IFR for someone in their late forties would be considerably closer to 2% than 0.2%.
We often quote the "about 1%" IFR for the virus as a whole and then say "but that's heavily skewed by the elderly" The hospitalisation rate looks to go past 1% at around age 37. Hospitalisation rates are a lot less subject to co-morbidities. They seem to be more likely to what will push you over the edge into death even when hospitalised.
If hospitals get overwhelmed, we will find out first hand what the natural IFR (without medical intervention) actually is. And it is nowhere near as low as it is with medical intervention, and the difference is overwhelmingly likely to be greatest for the young and those without co-morbidities (age and co-morbidities are what makes medical intervention less likely to help).
Here's a graphic to show the difference in hospitalisation by age and how it changed between the end of November and the start of January.
Your graph isn't a great deal of use for this discussion, because yet again it captures everyone in those age groups, rather than just those without underlying health conditions.
How many people under 40/under 50, nationwide, without comorbidities, have
a) died and b) been hospitalised
by Covid 19?
I have a good idea on a), as the NHS publishes this data (it's a remarkably low number). But we need to know b) – and I'm not sure there is an official source for it?
b) is indeed far harder to find; I've been keeping a close watch for any data like that for a while.
They did have data on the (fortunately very few) children who were hospitalised early in the first wave: the majority had no co-morbidities at all; even the majority of those on ventilators had no co-morbidities. The very very few deaths were, however, overwhelmingly concentrated in those with co-morbidities.
ICNARC publish their report and they do list co-morbidities, but those are severe co-morbidities (not like the ones listed on the NHS data for deaths, which include asthma). Those severe co-morbidities are again in a minority (a very small minority) in the ICU admissions, but the deaths tend to skew towards them noticeably.
It does seem to point towards co-morbidities (especially less severe ones) not protecting much from hospitalisation, but very possibly making a crucial difference once you are hospitalised.
EDIT: And once we're well under way with vaccinations (hopefully) passing 4 million a week, each 10 year age band should take about a fortnight or so, possibly less. On top of that, as herd immunity swells (hopefully), restrictions should be progressively able to be lightened without overwhelming hospitals, anyway. We could be arguing over a fourteen day period under Tier 1 or lighter.
She can have a view on it, she cant unilaterally decide her view is the law. It is perfectly legal to exercise by running:
from work to home from support bubble to work from shops to home from education location to any of the above
etc. If I was being petulant I would also point out there are some who need to exercise their eyes by travelling 350 miles.
It is also entirely lawful (and reasonable) to exercise by running:
from somewhere you've driven to that is appropriate to exercise in and back to your car again.
Yes and no. The real world problem police like in Derbyshire are trying to prevent is large numbers of people choosing the same location. The longer the distance allowed and the looser the guidelines, the more likely it is that everyone will congregate on the same small number of beauty spots.
Admittedly we are probably safe in today's miserable weather
Beautiful weather outside now. Looking forward to getting out at lunchtime.
And surely using the gravity model of exercise (?!), the further away a place, the fewer people are likely to congregate there?
Just because it's far away from you, doesn't mean it's far away from other people, outlining the flaw in the gravity model nicely for everyone there.
"The longer the distance allowed".
ie it's far away from everyone. Very few people live in the Peak District vs Rotherham or Manchester.
OT. There is a woman on Death Row in the US about to be executed. The last time a woman was executed in the US was 1953. Ruth Ellis* the last woman executed in the UK was in 1955. This is surprising. I always though the US could out barbaric the UK any day even with a Tory government.
(*I photographed her daughter Georgie)
I used to drink in the pub where Ruth shot her baby down.
Shot her baby? She shot her lover didn't she? An abuser
He was stupid to do anything that could create any sense of ambiguity about the stay at home message or add to the sense that there is one rule for the elite and another for everyone else. It's not a resigning matter but it's another example of why Johnson is such a poor PM.
I've not commented on this up to now as I don't think that targeting individuals (even the PM) is usually helpeful, but since Mike raises it, I think OLB's argument is the point, not the 7 miles itself. The policy is ambiguous (originally it was announced with a time limit which disappeared in the detailed guidance), there is no definition of local, and advice on whether you can drive to a spot where you'd like to walk and how far that can be is missing. To highlight an ambiguous policy with the PM's behaviour pushing at the boundary, and then refuse to give details simply adds to the confusion.
If the rule was "You can exercise on foot or by bike for N hours" or "at a distance of X", then I'm absolutely in favour of Johnson being able to do exactly that without anyone hassling him. But the position is unclear and the PM and his spokespeople are evasive about it, which absolurtely encourages people to do the sort of dodgy compromise with the semi-formulated rules that is perpetuating the pandemic longer than necessary.
Personally I favour a limit of say 4 miles, and if you want to exercise more, you can go round again. That's boring, someone might say? Don't waste our time with piffle - people are putting up with much worse. But any reasonable, clear rule would also be fine.
People should use their judgement
Derbyshire police were idiots
Boris has behaved reasonably in the context
The problem with the 4m limit is I can imagine that in central London there are parts where you would be forcing everyone to a very limited amount of open space
Part of the problem as I see it is the London media objecting to 7m as if it is some mad distance.
7m isn't really that long a walk in the shires, let alone a long cycle.
I think the law is drafted very well. Restrictions on individual liberty are already onerous (and in my view, go overboard), there is no need to tighten.
In the context of an infectious disease pandemic there is a big difference between a seven mile walk in the countryside and the same distance in an urban conurbation. Show me where in the Shires a seven mile walk would take you within a short distance on millions of homes?
Maybe but it's too complicated to have one law for city dwellers and another for everyone else.
There isn't a different law though. The rules say you should stay in your local area. Clearly Newham and Westminster are not in the same area (otherwise they could not have such different Covid infection rates and wouldn't be different London boroughs), whereas two hamlets in a sparsely populated shire seven miles apart might be. I think the rules are fairly clear and Johnson has at the very least pushed them to their limit. Add the fact that he chose to travel to the Borough with one of the highest number of Covid cases in the UK and I think it looks like a really poor choice. Not a resigning matter, but not unimportant.
I was not outraged - either of the faux or genuine variety - by the story but I was a tad surprised. You'd have thought, being the PM at a time like this, and given his leading role in the enormously damaging Cummings scandal which cost lives, he would have kept things impeccable.
There is no world in which Johnson, 56, is in his "early 50s".
Fuck off. I`m 56 and I am.
I'm 60 in 12 days, and I still consider myself in my early 50s.
I'm a day older than you. We are "The Tiswas" generation. Where were you born and will you be celebrating your birthday? if so, how?
24th is my bd. We live in Pembrokeshire now, luckily very quiet and relatively safer. We shall prolly just have a steak meal or something. Tiswas was brilliant, I watched it from when it was only a local ATV programme in staffs. I went to a grammar school and started off watching swap shop, but it was nice to slum it with Tiswas with the sec mod crowd..
I was born in Birmingham and still live in Birmingham. The birth place of "Tiswas". It was great show.
I was born in Loveday Street Maternity Hospital in Birmingham City Centre. Loveday Street still exists but not the Maternity Hospital. I was planning to walk into the City along the canal paths, to Loveday Street and back again, and take in a few hostelries on the journey. Bit sad to do it now that all the pubs are shut. Might still do it though.
There is no world in which Johnson, 56, is in his "early 50s".
Fuck off. I`m 56 and I am.
I'm 60 in 12 days, and I still consider myself in my early 50s.
I'm a day older than you. We are "The Tiswas" generation. Where were you born and will you be celebrating your birthday? if so, how?
24th is my bd. We live in Pembrokeshire now, luckily very quiet and relatively safer. We shall prolly just have a steak meal or something. Tiswas was brilliant, I watched it from when it was only a local ATV programme in staffs. I went to a grammar school and started off watching swap shop, but it was nice to slum it with Tiswas with the sec mod crowd..
I was born in Birmingham and still live in Birmingham. The birth place of "Tiswas". It was great show.
I was born in Loveday Street Maternity Hospital in Birmingham City Centre. Loveday Street still exists but not the Maternity Hospital. I was planning to walk into the City along the canal paths, to Loveday Street and back again, and take in a few hostelries on the journey. Bit sad to do it now that all the pubs are shut. Might still do it though.
Enjoy your birthday.
For those of us cursed with a big birthday during lockdown, it is only fair to keep your pre-lockdown age and celebrate the big one it properly when free to do so....
This story about the Chartwell’s free food ‘hamper’, going out to poor kids, could turn me into a communist overnight. Someone, somewhere, thinks this is acceptable. To make a profit. Sweet weeping Jesus.
She can have a view on it, she cant unilaterally decide her view is the law. It is perfectly legal to exercise by running:
from work to home from support bubble to work from shops to home from education location to any of the above
etc. If I was being petulant I would also point out there are some who need to exercise their eyes by travelling 350 miles.
It is also entirely lawful (and reasonable) to exercise by running:
from somewhere you've driven to that is appropriate to exercise in and back to your car again.
Yes and no. The real world problem police like in Derbyshire are trying to prevent is large numbers of people choosing the same location. The longer the distance allowed and the looser the guidelines, the more likely it is that everyone will congregate on the same small number of beauty spots.
Admittedly we are probably safe in today's miserable weather
Beautiful weather outside now. Looking forward to getting out at lunchtime.
And surely using the gravity model of exercise (?!), the further away a place, the fewer people are likely to congregate there?
Just because it's far away from you, doesn't mean it's far away from other people, outlining the flaw in the gravity model nicely for everyone there.
"The longer the distance allowed".
ie it's far away from everyone. Very few people live in the Peak District vs Rotherham or Manchester.
Birmingham is a pretty long distance travelled for me, won't find many Londoners congregating there either but it doesn't mean it will be empty. That's why the gravity model is so discredited. It's underlying assumption of distance as a factor in anything is extremely outdated.
He was stupid to do anything that could create any sense of ambiguity about the stay at home message or add to the sense that there is one rule for the elite and another for everyone else. It's not a resigning matter but it's another example of why Johnson is such a poor PM.
I've not commented on this up to now as I don't think that targeting individuals (even the PM) is usually helpeful, but since Mike raises it, I think OLB's argument is the point, not the 7 miles itself. The policy is ambiguous (originally it was announced with a time limit which disappeared in the detailed guidance), there is no definition of local, and advice on whether you can drive to a spot where you'd like to walk and how far that can be is missing. To highlight an ambiguous policy with the PM's behaviour pushing at the boundary, and then refuse to give details simply adds to the confusion.
If the rule was "You can exercise on foot or by bike for N hours" or "at a distance of X", then I'm absolutely in favour of Johnson being able to do exactly that without anyone hassling him. But the position is unclear and the PM and his spokespeople are evasive about it, which absolurtely encourages people to do the sort of dodgy compromise with the semi-formulated rules that is perpetuating the pandemic longer than necessary.
Personally I favour a limit of say 4 miles, and if you want to exercise more, you can go round again. That's boring, someone might say? Don't waste our time with piffle - people are putting up with much worse. But any reasonable, clear rule would also be fine.
People should use their judgement
Derbyshire police were idiots
Boris has behaved reasonably in the context
The problem with the 4m limit is I can imagine that in central London there are parts where you would be forcing everyone to a very limited amount of open space
Part of the problem as I see it is the London media objecting to 7m as if it is some mad distance.
7m isn't really that long a walk in the shires, let alone a long cycle.
I think the law is drafted very well. Restrictions on individual liberty are already onerous (and in my view, go overboard), there is no need to tighten.
In the context of an infectious disease pandemic there is a big difference between a seven mile walk in the countryside and the same distance in an urban conurbation. Show me where in the Shires a seven mile walk would take you within a short distance on millions of homes?
Maybe but it's too complicated to have one law for city dwellers and another for everyone else.
There isn't a different law though. The rules say you should stay in your local area. Clearly Newham and Westminster are not in the same area (otherwise they could not have such different Covid infection rates and wouldn't be different London boroughs), whereas two hamlets in a sparsely populated shire seven miles apart might be. I think the rules are fairly clear and Johnson has at the very least pushed them to their limit. Add the fact that he chose to travel to the Borough with one of the highest number of Covid cases in the UK and I think it looks like a really poor choice. Not a resigning matter, but not unimportant.
Newham and Westminster are the same area, they're both London. They have the same Mayor. They're segments of the same city. 🤷🏻♂️
That's a pretty dumb response. London has a population of over 9 million people and covers 1,572 Square km. The fact that you are suggesting that that is what is meant by a local area in the lockdown rules (because you want to let the PM off the hook) is actually a perfect example of how Johnson's actions have made it harder to contain the spread of the virus.
It isn't dumb. The law permits exercise, it doesn't say you can only exercise on your own bloody road.
This kind of curtain twitching, authoritarian zealous hatred of others whether by yourself or Derbyshire Police is dumb.
Exercise is every bit as legal as shopping is. I can go and do go shopping at my tiny local Co-op, a few hundred metres from my house. Sometimes I drive to my nearest Aldi or Morrisons, about two miles from my house. Sometimes I drive to my nearest ASDA which is a much bigger supermarket with more options (including George clothing range and back to school essentials) which is a few miles further away. Is that unlawful? Is it against the lockdown rules? Am I only supposed to shop at my tiny local Co-op because that happens to be the nearest to me and visiting ASDA by car is verbotten?
It is lawful to drive. It is lawful to shop. It is lawful to exercise. The rest is nonsense.
OT. There is a woman on Death Row in the US about to be executed. The last time a woman was executed in the US was 1953. Ruth Ellis* the last woman executed in the UK was in 1955. This is surprising. I always though the US could out barbaric the UK any day even with a Tory government.
(*I photographed her daughter Georgie)
I used to drink in the pub where Ruth shot her baby down.
Shot her baby? She shot her lover didn't she? An abuser
OT. There is a woman on Death Row in the US about to be executed. The last time a woman was executed in the US was 1953. Ruth Ellis* the last woman executed in the UK was in 1955. This is surprising. I always though the US could out barbaric the UK any day even with a Tory government.
(*I photographed her daughter Georgie)
Why do you think it is more barbarous to judicially execute a woman than a man? Isn't that "Women and Children First!' style sexism?
Not really. The only cogent reason for the death penalty -though a flawed one-is as a deterrent and as female murder is such a rare event that just doesn't hold water.
This story about the Chartwell’s free food ‘hamper’, going out to poor kids, could turn me into a communist overnight. Someone, somewhere, thinks this is acceptable. To make a profit. Sweet weeping Jesus.
It also seems to be total and utter fake news, Twitter style.
If you go to Chartswell's own website then at list price (no negotiations) this is what they provide: https://www.chartwellscanhelp.com/
2 Week Food Hamper - costing £23 (not £30)
2 x 200g Block of cheese 14 x Portions of fresh fruit: 6 x apples, 4 x easy peel oranges and 4 x bananas 16 x Portions of vegetables: cucumber, carrots, baking potatoes, sweet potatoes, lettuce, tomato 1kg x Wholemeal penne pasta 4 x Chopped tomato tins 2 x Tuna chunks in brine 1 x Loaf of bread 9 x Healthy snacks
Rather different to the shabby bollocks Twitter image. Someone isn't saying the truth.
OT. There is a woman on Death Row in the US about to be executed. The last time a woman was executed in the US was 1953. Ruth Ellis* the last woman executed in the UK was in 1955. This is surprising. I always though the US could out barbaric the UK any day even with a Tory government.
(*I photographed her daughter Georgie)
I used to drink in the pub where Ruth shot her baby down.
Quite an obscure fact but the last 2 women executed in the UK (Ruth Ellis & Styllou Christofi) committed their murders on exactly the same road (South Hill Park in Hampstead). Less than 100 metres and 1 year apart but very different crimes.
On topic, as someone who has taken up cycling (mostly indoor cycling on a Roger Black and a Peloton, sorry Dura Ace) I can understand the bug Mike talks about.
That said, I still wouldn't like to cycle on the roads, I've seen too many idiotic drivers in action.
I can go up and down virtual mountains from the comfort of my pain cave without getting cold or wet nor having to risk idiot drivers while watching Netflix...no brainer for me
Same here.
Have to admit, cycling whilst watching the cricket does wonders for me.
When I bought my flat in Soho there was a huge mirror above the bed. Obviously an expensive feature so I was loathe to get rid of it. It was only when one of my neighbours came visiting to get some redecorating tips and I saw her backing out of the door that I had a rethink.
Roger. That's very interesting. However, I'm struggling to see how this connects to the previous posts?
Of more concern to me is why the government is not insisting on a negative Covid test for travellers from Ireland, given the very high rates of infection there.
Also why are the courts still insisting that lawyers have to attend courts for hearings which are perfectly doable remotely? There have been a number of cases of people catching Covid as a result.
I don't trust the police to understand or enforce the rules fairly. But some people are certainly taking the piss. Common-sense is what is needed. I could easily walk for 3 hours outside my front door well beyond 7 miles without seeing a living soul. In London it is that much harder to go for exercise without being close to people.
The key message must surely be this: when you absolutely have to go out wear a mask and try and stay as far away as possible from other people.
Cycling 7 miles in London is nothing. That was my daily one way commute when I cycled to work regularly. But driving somewhere to cycle seems a bit off when there are plenty of parks nearby where the PM could run, walk or cycle (though some of the Royal Parks can be a bit sniffy about cyclists so that might explain it).
Anyway it is a gorgeous day here so I am off to the hills.
There was a time (no idea if that's still the case) where you could theoretically get fined for biking in the Royal Parks. Of course, most cyclists completely ignore that moronic rule and nothing bad happens to them. However, a mate once somehow manage to get fined – he remains to this day the only person I have ever known to actually be fined. He is the sort of bloke that is forever an outlier!
Has any cyclist ever been fined for breaking the speed limit? It's 20mph in most London Boroughs. Cyclists regularly exceed this but never seen one done for it.
I've triggered a speed camera in a 30 limit but that was a bit of a cheat as it was at the bottom of a hill. Strangely no ticket arrived in the post.
I recall someone being pulled over in Scotland for doing 70mph (Sorry, 112km/h, rules is rules).
I'm not sure the speed limit applies to cyclists but you can definitely be done for 'furious' cycling.
I think this may be a hangover from the old Common Law offence of "furious riding". There's a plaque on a steep hill in Lewes recording the day the Prince Regent was fined for this high crime. All equal before the law etc. etc.
This story about the Chartwell’s free food ‘hamper’, going out to poor kids, could turn me into a communist overnight. Someone, somewhere, thinks this is acceptable. To make a profit. Sweet weeping Jesus.
Cycling 7 miles somewhere is a nothing thing to do. I used to cycle from Hampstead to Upper Thames Street which is about 5ish miles.
This is a classic bubble story. Everyone in the country is fearful that the NHS is about to collapse and the media are banging on about a bike ride that they know the PM isn't going to resign over or even discuss in any serious sense.
When did Johnson ever discuss anything in any serious sense!
OT. There is a woman on Death Row in the US about to be executed. The last time a woman was executed in the US was 1953. Ruth Ellis* the last woman executed in the UK was in 1955. This is surprising. I always though the US could out barbaric the UK any day even with a Tory government.
(*I photographed her daughter Georgie)
Wikipedia says the last woman executed in the US was in 2015 in Georgia. 1953 maybe was the last executed by the federal govt in the US
He was stupid to do anything that could create any sense of ambiguity about the stay at home message or add to the sense that there is one rule for the elite and another for everyone else. It's not a resigning matter but it's another example of why Johnson is such a poor PM.
I've not commented on this up to now as I don't think that targeting individuals (even the PM) is usually helpeful, but since Mike raises it, I think OLB's argument is the point, not the 7 miles itself. The policy is ambiguous (originally it was announced with a time limit which disappeared in the detailed guidance), there is no definition of local, and advice on whether you can drive to a spot where you'd like to walk and how far that can be is missing. To highlight an ambiguous policy with the PM's behaviour pushing at the boundary, and then refuse to give details simply adds to the confusion.
If the rule was "You can exercise on foot or by bike for N hours" or "at a distance of X", then I'm absolutely in favour of Johnson being able to do exactly that without anyone hassling him. But the position is unclear and the PM and his spokespeople are evasive about it, which absolurtely encourages people to do the sort of dodgy compromise with the semi-formulated rules that is perpetuating the pandemic longer than necessary.
Personally I favour a limit of say 4 miles, and if you want to exercise more, you can go round again. That's boring, someone might say? Don't waste our time with piffle - people are putting up with much worse. But any reasonable, clear rule would also be fine.
People should use their judgement
Derbyshire police were idiots
Boris has behaved reasonably in the context
The problem with the 4m limit is I can imagine that in central London there are parts where you would be forcing everyone to a very limited amount of open space
Part of the problem as I see it is the London media objecting to 7m as if it is some mad distance.
7m isn't really that long a walk in the shires, let alone a long cycle.
I think the law is drafted very well. Restrictions on individual liberty are already onerous (and in my view, go overboard), there is no need to tighten.
In the context of an infectious disease pandemic there is a big difference between a seven mile walk in the countryside and the same distance in an urban conurbation. Show me where in the Shires a seven mile walk would take you within a short distance on millions of homes?
Maybe but it's too complicated to have one law for city dwellers and another for everyone else.
There isn't a different law though. The rules say you should stay in your local area. Clearly Newham and Westminster are not in the same area (otherwise they could not have such different Covid infection rates and wouldn't be different London boroughs), whereas two hamlets in a sparsely populated shire seven miles apart might be. I think the rules are fairly clear and Johnson has at the very least pushed them to their limit. Add the fact that he chose to travel to the Borough with one of the highest number of Covid cases in the UK and I think it looks like a really poor choice. Not a resigning matter, but not unimportant.
I was not outraged - either of the faux or genuine variety - by the story but I was a tad surprised. You'd have thought, being the PM at a time like this, and given his leading role in the enormously damaging Cummings scandal which cost lives, he would have kept things impeccable.
I am angry that he chose to go to Newham of all places, and that he has muddied the water when the need for clear messaging is paramount. Outraged would be putting it too strongly.
The fact that Newham's coronavirus cases are close to 3 times the level of Westminster's cases might be taken to show that Newham and Westminster are in different parts of London. At any rate I think the Prime Minister failed to remain in the part of London in which he lives. A sign that they are in different You resort to the word 'area'. That is not how the guidance is stated. If the guidance should be better formulated -- as surely it should be -- then Johnson should have clarified the guidance rather than said simply that his accusers were wrong.
Newham probably has a high rate because it has lots of households with large numbers of people, but that's unavoidable because the Bangladeshi and other communities choose to live like that and it wouldn't be acceptable to tell them to live in smaller groups.
Closing mosques - and churches and synagogues - might help, however. It is absurd they remain open. If there is one thing you can definitely do, at home, alone, it is prayer. It is designed like that.
This story about the Chartwell’s free food ‘hamper’, going out to poor kids, could turn me into a communist overnight. Someone, somewhere, thinks this is acceptable. To make a profit. Sweet weeping Jesus.
It also seems to be total and utter fake news, Twitter style.
If you go to Chartswell's own website then at list price (no negotiations) this is what they provide: https://www.chartwellscanhelp.com/
2 Week Food Hamper - costing £23 (not £30)
2 x 200g Block of cheese 14 x Portions of fresh fruit: 6 x apples, 4 x easy peel oranges and 4 x bananas 16 x Portions of vegetables: cucumber, carrots, baking potatoes, sweet potatoes, lettuce, tomato 1kg x Wholemeal penne pasta 4 x Chopped tomato tins 2 x Tuna chunks in brine 1 x Loaf of bread 9 x Healthy snacks
Rather different to the shabby bollocks Twitter image. Someone isn't saying the truth.
There have been a number of such photos though - It's not just this 1 tweet.
He was stupid to do anything that could create any sense of ambiguity about the stay at home message or add to the sense that there is one rule for the elite and another for everyone else. It's not a resigning matter but it's another example of why Johnson is such a poor PM.
I've not commented on this up to now as I don't think that targeting individuals (even the PM) is usually helpeful, but since Mike raises it, I think OLB's argument is the point, not the 7 miles itself. The policy is ambiguous (originally it was announced with a time limit which disappeared in the detailed guidance), there is no definition of local, and advice on whether you can drive to a spot where you'd like to walk and how far that can be is missing. To highlight an ambiguous policy with the PM's behaviour pushing at the boundary, and then refuse to give details simply adds to the confusion.
If the rule was "You can exercise on foot or by bike for N hours" or "at a distance of X", then I'm absolutely in favour of Johnson being able to do exactly that without anyone hassling him. But the position is unclear and the PM and his spokespeople are evasive about it, which absolurtely encourages people to do the sort of dodgy compromise with the semi-formulated rules that is perpetuating the pandemic longer than necessary.
Personally I favour a limit of say 4 miles, and if you want to exercise more, you can go round again. That's boring, someone might say? Don't waste our time with piffle - people are putting up with much worse. But any reasonable, clear rule would also be fine.
People should use their judgement
Derbyshire police were idiots
Boris has behaved reasonably in the context
The problem with the 4m limit is I can imagine that in central London there are parts where you would be forcing everyone to a very limited amount of open space
Part of the problem as I see it is the London media objecting to 7m as if it is some mad distance.
7m isn't really that long a walk in the shires, let alone a long cycle.
I think the law is drafted very well. Restrictions on individual liberty are already onerous (and in my view, go overboard), there is no need to tighten.
In the context of an infectious disease pandemic there is a big difference between a seven mile walk in the countryside and the same distance in an urban conurbation. Show me where in the Shires a seven mile walk would take you within a short distance on millions of homes?
Maybe but it's too complicated to have one law for city dwellers and another for everyone else.
There isn't a different law though. The rules say you should stay in your local area. Clearly Newham and Westminster are not in the same area (otherwise they could not have such different Covid infection rates and wouldn't be different London boroughs), whereas two hamlets in a sparsely populated shire seven miles apart might be. I think the rules are fairly clear and Johnson has at the very least pushed them to their limit. Add the fact that he chose to travel to the Borough with one of the highest number of Covid cases in the UK and I think it looks like a really poor choice. Not a resigning matter, but not unimportant.
I was not outraged - either of the faux or genuine variety - by the story but I was a tad surprised. You'd have thought, being the PM at a time like this, and given his leading role in the enormously damaging Cummings scandal which cost lives, he would have kept things impeccable.
Exactly the point I was making earlier. It does not matter if he didn't do anything wrong. The key thing is the media are all over this. It doesn't matter if they are a bunch of idiots, making a mole hill out of a mountain and getting their facts wrong and jumping to illogical conclusions.
The point is we all know they do this.
So why, why, why go on the bike ride? You have become the news story Boris and any idiot could have told you this would happen and it really doesn't matter that the whole thing is nonsense then does it?
This story about the Chartwell’s free food ‘hamper’, going out to poor kids, could turn me into a communist overnight. Someone, somewhere, thinks this is acceptable. To make a profit. Sweet weeping Jesus.
The food boxes for oldies last March were decent (yes there was the odd person who said I am vegan, who also can't eat this, that and the other who complained, or the odd box that contained some damaged food). But overall, if they had been utter shit and oldies were starving, we would have heard about it.
My elderly parents got the box and they said it was absolutely fine. A bit bland and samey, but had range of fruit, veg, tins etc, and you could easily live off it.
How come they haven't just managed to fire up that same scheme?
This story about the Chartwell’s free food ‘hamper’, going out to poor kids, could turn me into a communist overnight. Someone, somewhere, thinks this is acceptable. To make a profit. Sweet weeping Jesus.
It also seems to be total and utter fake news, Twitter style.
If you go to Chartswell's own website then at list price (no negotiations) this is what they provide: https://www.chartwellscanhelp.com/
2 Week Food Hamper - costing £23 (not £30)
2 x 200g Block of cheese 14 x Portions of fresh fruit: 6 x apples, 4 x easy peel oranges and 4 x bananas 16 x Portions of vegetables: cucumber, carrots, baking potatoes, sweet potatoes, lettuce, tomato 1kg x Wholemeal penne pasta 4 x Chopped tomato tins 2 x Tuna chunks in brine 1 x Loaf of bread 9 x Healthy snacks
Rather different to the shabby bollocks Twitter image. Someone isn't saying the truth.
No, the food box on the right is definitely real, the £30 has been wasted and Chartwells are profiteering from a government contract.
This story about the Chartwell’s free food ‘hamper’, going out to poor kids, could turn me into a communist overnight. Someone, somewhere, thinks this is acceptable. To make a profit. Sweet weeping Jesus.
It also seems to be total and utter fake news, Twitter style.
If you go to Chartswell's own website then at list price (no negotiations) this is what they provide: https://www.chartwellscanhelp.com/
2 Week Food Hamper - costing £23 (not £30)
2 x 200g Block of cheese 14 x Portions of fresh fruit: 6 x apples, 4 x easy peel oranges and 4 x bananas 16 x Portions of vegetables: cucumber, carrots, baking potatoes, sweet potatoes, lettuce, tomato 1kg x Wholemeal penne pasta 4 x Chopped tomato tins 2 x Tuna chunks in brine 1 x Loaf of bread 9 x Healthy snacks
Rather different to the shabby bollocks Twitter image. Someone isn't saying the truth.
There have been a number of such photos though - It's not just this 1 tweet.
This story about the Chartwell’s free food ‘hamper’, going out to poor kids, could turn me into a communist overnight. Someone, somewhere, thinks this is acceptable. To make a profit. Sweet weeping Jesus.
It also seems to be total and utter fake news, Twitter style.
If you go to Chartswell's own website then at list price (no negotiations) this is what they provide: https://www.chartwellscanhelp.com/
2 Week Food Hamper - costing £23 (not £30)
2 x 200g Block of cheese 14 x Portions of fresh fruit: 6 x apples, 4 x easy peel oranges and 4 x bananas 16 x Portions of vegetables: cucumber, carrots, baking potatoes, sweet potatoes, lettuce, tomato 1kg x Wholemeal penne pasta 4 x Chopped tomato tins 2 x Tuna chunks in brine 1 x Loaf of bread 9 x Healthy snacks
Rather different to the shabby bollocks Twitter image. Someone isn't saying the truth.
Given the danger of being sued for defamation, the very fact the person is doing this should indicate something.
Also BTW - Chartwell's don't deliver to the door, only to somewhere convenient to them (and not listed either anywhere obvious).
On topic, as someone who has taken up cycling (mostly indoor cycling on a Roger Black and a Peloton, sorry Dura Ace) I can understand the bug Mike talks about.
That said, I still wouldn't like to cycle on the roads, I've seen too many idiotic drivers in action.
I can go up and down virtual mountains from the comfort of my pain cave without getting cold or wet nor having to risk idiot drivers while watching Netflix...no brainer for me
Same here.
Have to admit, cycling whilst watching the cricket does wonders for me.
When I bought my flat in Soho there was a huge mirror above the bed. Obviously an expensive feature so I was loathe to get rid of it. It was only when one of my neighbours came visiting to get some redecorating tips and I saw her backing out of the door that I had a rethink.
Roger. That's very interesting. However, I'm struggling to see how this connects to the previous posts?
If you reflect on it, you might enjoy the connection.
This story about the Chartwell’s free food ‘hamper’, going out to poor kids, could turn me into a communist overnight. Someone, somewhere, thinks this is acceptable. To make a profit. Sweet weeping Jesus.
It also seems to be total and utter fake news, Twitter style.
If you go to Chartswell's own website then at list price (no negotiations) this is what they provide: https://www.chartwellscanhelp.com/
2 Week Food Hamper - costing £23 (not £30)
2 x 200g Block of cheese 14 x Portions of fresh fruit: 6 x apples, 4 x easy peel oranges and 4 x bananas 16 x Portions of vegetables: cucumber, carrots, baking potatoes, sweet potatoes, lettuce, tomato 1kg x Wholemeal penne pasta 4 x Chopped tomato tins 2 x Tuna chunks in brine 1 x Loaf of bread 9 x Healthy snacks
Rather different to the shabby bollocks Twitter image. Someone isn't saying the truth.
There have been a number of such photos though - It's not just this 1 tweet.
I have little doubt that some schools or their suppliers have given a hamper like that.
I do doubt that it came from Chartwells and cost £30 when their £23 hamper is world's apart.
Maybe a Council has only spent £5 and that was all they could get. Where is the evidence it came from Chartwells? Where is the evidence it cost £30. Has a Council or another body involved spent only £5 and pocketed the difference? More investigation needed than just swallowing the story whole.
In a rather happier O/T my son has got an offer to study PPE at St Anne's next year. I am chuffed to bits for him.
Now that is absolutely excellent news. My congratulations to him - and, if I may, to his parents for, I have no doubt, their encouragement and support.
Thanks. I was fortunate enough to marry a very clever woman who is due much of the credit.
There's a lovely story Jeffrey Archer tells against himself - when a mutual acquaintance found out he was marrying Mary, they remarked that he hoped their children would have her looks and her brains!
The food boxes for oldies last March were decent (yes there was the odd person who said I am vegan, who also can't eat this, that and the other who complained, or the odd box that contained some damaged food). But overall, if they had been utter shit and oldies were starving, we would have heard about it.
My elderly parents got the box and they said it was absolutely fine. A bit bland and samey, but had range of fruit, veg, tins etc, and you could easily live off it.
How come they haven't just managed to fire up that same scheme?
Maybe the same reason that the government increases the pension while cutting benefits for families with children. Old people can vote, kids can't.
He was stupid to do anything that could create any sense of ambiguity about the stay at home message or add to the sense that there is one rule for the elite and another for everyone else. It's not a resigning matter but it's another example of why Johnson is such a poor PM.
I've not commented on this up to now as I don't think that targeting individuals (even the PM) is usually helpeful, but since Mike raises it, I think OLB's argument is the point, not the 7 miles itself. The policy is ambiguous (originally it was announced with a time limit which disappeared in the detailed guidance), there is no definition of local, and advice on whether you can drive to a spot where you'd like to walk and how far that can be is missing. To highlight an ambiguous policy with the PM's behaviour pushing at the boundary, and then refuse to give details simply adds to the confusion.
If the rule was "You can exercise on foot or by bike for N hours" or "at a distance of X", then I'm absolutely in favour of Johnson being able to do exactly that without anyone hassling him. But the position is unclear and the PM and his spokespeople are evasive about it, which absolurtely encourages people to do the sort of dodgy compromise with the semi-formulated rules that is perpetuating the pandemic longer than necessary.
Personally I favour a limit of say 4 miles, and if you want to exercise more, you can go round again. That's boring, someone might say? Don't waste our time with piffle - people are putting up with much worse. But any reasonable, clear rule would also be fine.
People should use their judgement
Derbyshire police were idiots
Boris has behaved reasonably in the context
The problem with the 4m limit is I can imagine that in central London there are parts where you would be forcing everyone to a very limited amount of open space
Part of the problem as I see it is the London media objecting to 7m as if it is some mad distance.
7m isn't really that long a walk in the shires, let alone a long cycle.
I think the law is drafted very well. Restrictions on individual liberty are already onerous (and in my view, go overboard), there is no need to tighten.
In the context of an infectious disease pandemic there is a big difference between a seven mile walk in the countryside and the same distance in an urban conurbation. Show me where in the Shires a seven mile walk would take you within a short distance on millions of homes?
Maybe but it's too complicated to have one law for city dwellers and another for everyone else.
There isn't a different law though. The rules say you should stay in your local area. Clearly Newham and Westminster are not in the same area (otherwise they could not have such different Covid infection rates and wouldn't be different London boroughs), whereas two hamlets in a sparsely populated shire seven miles apart might be. I think the rules are fairly clear and Johnson has at the very least pushed them to their limit. Add the fact that he chose to travel to the Borough with one of the highest number of Covid cases in the UK and I think it looks like a really poor choice. Not a resigning matter, but not unimportant.
I was not outraged - either of the faux or genuine variety - by the story but I was a tad surprised. You'd have thought, being the PM at a time like this, and given his leading role in the enormously damaging Cummings scandal which cost lives, he would have kept things impeccable.
Exactly the point I was making earlier. It does not matter if he didn't do anything wrong. The key thing is the media are all over this. It doesn't matter if they are a bunch of idiots, making a mole hill out of a mountain and getting their facts wrong and jumping to illogical conclusions.
The point is we all know they do this.
So why, why, why go on the bike ride? You have become the news story Boris and any idiot could have told you this would happen and it really doesn't matter that the whole thing is nonsense then does it?
This story about the Chartwell’s free food ‘hamper’, going out to poor kids, could turn me into a communist overnight. Someone, somewhere, thinks this is acceptable. To make a profit. Sweet weeping Jesus.
It also seems to be total and utter fake news, Twitter style.
If you go to Chartswell's own website then at list price (no negotiations) this is what they provide: https://www.chartwellscanhelp.com/
2 Week Food Hamper - costing £23 (not £30)
2 x 200g Block of cheese 14 x Portions of fresh fruit: 6 x apples, 4 x easy peel oranges and 4 x bananas 16 x Portions of vegetables: cucumber, carrots, baking potatoes, sweet potatoes, lettuce, tomato 1kg x Wholemeal penne pasta 4 x Chopped tomato tins 2 x Tuna chunks in brine 1 x Loaf of bread 9 x Healthy snacks
Rather different to the shabby bollocks Twitter image. Someone isn't saying the truth.
No, the food box on the right is definitely real, the £30 has been wasted and Chartwells are profiteering from a government contract.
How do you know it cost £30?
How do you know it came from Chartwells?
Why wasn't the £23 hamper ordered instead?
Too many questions for me. If there's an answer I'd love to know it. Someone looks like they've done something dodgy, I'm just not sure who it is.
Cycling 7 miles somewhere is a nothing thing to do. I used to cycle from Hampstead to Upper Thames Street which is about 5ish miles.
This is a classic bubble story. Everyone in the country is fearful that the NHS is about to collapse and the media are banging on about a bike ride that they know the PM isn't going to resign over or even discuss in any serious sense.
When did Johnson ever discuss anything in any serious sense!
She can have a view on it, she cant unilaterally decide her view is the law. It is perfectly legal to exercise by running:
from work to home from support bubble to work from shops to home from education location to any of the above
etc. If I was being petulant I would also point out there are some who need to exercise their eyes by travelling 350 miles.
It is also entirely lawful (and reasonable) to exercise by running:
from somewhere you've driven to that is appropriate to exercise in and back to your car again.
Yes and no. The real world problem police like in Derbyshire are trying to prevent is large numbers of people choosing the same location. The longer the distance allowed and the looser the guidelines, the more likely it is that everyone will congregate on the same small number of beauty spots.
Admittedly we are probably safe in today's miserable weather
Beautiful weather outside now. Looking forward to getting out at lunchtime.
And surely using the gravity model of exercise (?!), the further away a place, the fewer people are likely to congregate there?
Just because it's far away from you, doesn't mean it's far away from other people, outlining the flaw in the gravity model nicely for everyone there.
"The longer the distance allowed".
ie it's far away from everyone. Very few people live in the Peak District vs Rotherham or Manchester.
Birmingham is a pretty long distance travelled for me, won't find many Londoners congregating there either but it doesn't mean it will be empty. That's why the gravity model is so discredited. It's underlying assumption of distance as a factor in anything is extremely outdated.
The Peak District is, other things being equal, empty. If I am in Stoke or Rotherham or London I would likely find other areas before I hit the Peak District. If I live adjacent to the Peak District I would likely go to the Peak District and not Hampstead Heath.
I think "so discredited" as a theory is not quite right although there are likely as many papers suggesting modifications or alternatives as proposing the central premise.
The food boxes for oldies last March were decent (yes there was the odd person who said I am vegan, who also can't eat this, that and the other who complained, or the odd box that contained some damaged food). But overall, if they had been utter shit and oldies were starving, we would have heard about it.
My elderly parents got the box and they said it was absolutely fine. A bit bland and samey, but had range of fruit, veg, tins etc, and you could easily live off it.
How come they haven't just managed to fire up that same scheme?
Maybe the same reason that the government increases the pension while cutting benefits for families with children. Old people can vote, kids can't.
Regardless of cynical take, the point is that they already had contracts / scheme that has been organized in the recent past. I wonder why they just didn't fire that back up again? Surely that is easier than going for a totally different scheme.
OT. There is a woman on Death Row in the US about to be executed. The last time a woman was executed in the US was 1953. Ruth Ellis* the last woman executed in the UK was in 1955. This is surprising. I always though the US could out barbaric the UK any day even with a Tory government.
(*I photographed her daughter Georgie)
Wikipedia says the last woman executed in the US was in 2015 in Georgia. 1953 maybe was the last executed by the federal govt in the US
That explains it. It didn't sound right though it might have helped if the radio 4 program running the story had made that clear
Just looked at the header and haven't read the comments.
I have no idea whether security advises/permits the PM to go for a bike ride alone, but in my ignorance of these matters, I'd view setting off from his residence on a bike as not very secure, even with accompanying officers.
In fact, I'd try to randomise the time & place where the PM takes such exercise/relaxation. But I'm ignorant, as I say.
This story about the Chartwell’s free food ‘hamper’, going out to poor kids, could turn me into a communist overnight. Someone, somewhere, thinks this is acceptable. To make a profit. Sweet weeping Jesus.
It also seems to be total and utter fake news, Twitter style.
If you go to Chartswell's own website then at list price (no negotiations) this is what they provide: https://www.chartwellscanhelp.com/
2 Week Food Hamper - costing £23 (not £30)
2 x 200g Block of cheese 14 x Portions of fresh fruit: 6 x apples, 4 x easy peel oranges and 4 x bananas 16 x Portions of vegetables: cucumber, carrots, baking potatoes, sweet potatoes, lettuce, tomato 1kg x Wholemeal penne pasta 4 x Chopped tomato tins 2 x Tuna chunks in brine 1 x Loaf of bread 9 x Healthy snacks
Rather different to the shabby bollocks Twitter image. Someone isn't saying the truth.
Given the danger of being sued for defamation, the very fact the person is doing this should indicate something.
Also BTW - Chartwell's don't deliver to the door, only to somewhere convenient to them (and not listed either anywhere obvious).
All the Tweet indicates is that is what they received.
Not that it definitely came from Chartwells, not that it definitely cost £30. Those are assumptions and don't seem to me to be valid ones.
Delivery shouldn't cost £7 per household either. A school could pay for one person to collect the boxes and deliver them at well under £7 per head.
People without health problems and the under-60s are faring better in the latest wave of Covid-19 than they did in the first, an analysis of hospital deaths by The Times suggests.
Cycling 7 miles somewhere is a nothing thing to do. I used to cycle from Hampstead to Upper Thames Street which is about 5ish miles.
This is a classic bubble story. Everyone in the country is fearful that the NHS is about to collapse and the media are banging on about a bike ride that they know the PM isn't going to resign over or even discuss in any serious sense.
When did Johnson ever discuss anything in any serious sense!
This story about the Chartwell’s free food ‘hamper’, going out to poor kids, could turn me into a communist overnight. Someone, somewhere, thinks this is acceptable. To make a profit. Sweet weeping Jesus.
It also seems to be total and utter fake news, Twitter style.
If you go to Chartswell's own website then at list price (no negotiations) this is what they provide: https://www.chartwellscanhelp.com/
2 Week Food Hamper - costing £23 (not £30)
2 x 200g Block of cheese 14 x Portions of fresh fruit: 6 x apples, 4 x easy peel oranges and 4 x bananas 16 x Portions of vegetables: cucumber, carrots, baking potatoes, sweet potatoes, lettuce, tomato 1kg x Wholemeal penne pasta 4 x Chopped tomato tins 2 x Tuna chunks in brine 1 x Loaf of bread 9 x Healthy snacks
Rather different to the shabby bollocks Twitter image. Someone isn't saying the truth.
Yes. You.
Chartwells have already agreed it is not acceptable and are launching an investigation.
He was stupid to do anything that could create any sense of ambiguity about the stay at home message or add to the sense that there is one rule for the elite and another for everyone else. It's not a resigning matter but it's another example of why Johnson is such a poor PM.
I've not commented on this up to now as I don't think that targeting individuals (even the PM) is usually helpeful, but since Mike raises it, I think OLB's argument is the point, not the 7 miles itself. The policy is ambiguous (originally it was announced with a time limit which disappeared in the detailed guidance), there is no definition of local, and advice on whether you can drive to a spot where you'd like to walk and how far that can be is missing. To highlight an ambiguous policy with the PM's behaviour pushing at the boundary, and then refuse to give details simply adds to the confusion.
If the rule was "You can exercise on foot or by bike for N hours" or "at a distance of X", then I'm absolutely in favour of Johnson being able to do exactly that without anyone hassling him. But the position is unclear and the PM and his spokespeople are evasive about it, which absolurtely encourages people to do the sort of dodgy compromise with the semi-formulated rules that is perpetuating the pandemic longer than necessary.
Personally I favour a limit of say 4 miles, and if you want to exercise more, you can go round again. That's boring, someone might say? Don't waste our time with piffle - people are putting up with much worse. But any reasonable, clear rule would also be fine.
People should use their judgement
Derbyshire police were idiots
Boris has behaved reasonably in the context
The problem with the 4m limit is I can imagine that in central London there are parts where you would be forcing everyone to a very limited amount of open space
Part of the problem as I see it is the London media objecting to 7m as if it is some mad distance.
7m isn't really that long a walk in the shires, let alone a long cycle.
I think the law is drafted very well. Restrictions on individual liberty are already onerous (and in my view, go overboard), there is no need to tighten.
In the context of an infectious disease pandemic there is a big difference between a seven mile walk in the countryside and the same distance in an urban conurbation. Show me where in the Shires a seven mile walk would take you within a short distance on millions of homes?
Maybe but it's too complicated to have one law for city dwellers and another for everyone else.
There isn't a different law though. The rules say you should stay in your local area. Clearly Newham and Westminster are not in the same area (otherwise they could not have such different Covid infection rates and wouldn't be different London boroughs), whereas two hamlets in a sparsely populated shire seven miles apart might be. I think the rules are fairly clear and Johnson has at the very least pushed them to their limit. Add the fact that he chose to travel to the Borough with one of the highest number of Covid cases in the UK and I think it looks like a really poor choice. Not a resigning matter, but not unimportant.
I was not outraged - either of the faux or genuine variety - by the story but I was a tad surprised. You'd have thought, being the PM at a time like this, and given his leading role in the enormously damaging Cummings scandal which cost lives, he would have kept things impeccable.
Exactly the point I was making earlier. It does not matter if he didn't do anything wrong. The key thing is the media are all over this. It doesn't matter if they are a bunch of idiots, making a mole hill out of a mountain and getting their facts wrong and jumping to illogical conclusions.
The point is we all know they do this.
So why, why, why go on the bike ride? You have become the news story Boris and any idiot could have told you this would happen and it really doesn't matter that the whole thing is nonsense then does it?
What's he trying to cover up?
9 times out of 10 it is cockup not conspiracy*
*Obviously I just made up that figure, but you know what I mean.
On topic, as someone who has taken up cycling (mostly indoor cycling on a Roger Black and a Peloton, sorry Dura Ace) I can understand the bug Mike talks about.
That said, I still wouldn't like to cycle on the roads, I've seen too many idiotic drivers in action.
I can go up and down virtual mountains from the comfort of my pain cave without getting cold or wet nor having to risk idiot drivers while watching Netflix...no brainer for me
Same here.
Have to admit, cycling whilst watching the cricket does wonders for me.
When I bought my flat in Soho there was a huge mirror above the bed. Obviously an expensive feature so I was loathe to get rid of it. It was only when one of my neighbours came visiting to get some redecorating tips and I saw her backing out of the door that I had a rethink.
Roger. That's very interesting. However, I'm struggling to see how this connects to the previous posts?
I was picturing TSE sitting in his bedroom watching cricket whilst cycling! Train of thought....
Interesting that Philip's devotional defence of Boris and all he does leads him to defend a £23 food package that looks to have about £15-worth of food in it.
Their boss supporting the Tories does wonders for basic ethics with this openly corrupt government.
This story about the Chartwell’s free food ‘hamper’, going out to poor kids, could turn me into a communist overnight. Someone, somewhere, thinks this is acceptable. To make a profit. Sweet weeping Jesus.
It also seems to be total and utter fake news, Twitter style.
If you go to Chartswell's own website then at list price (no negotiations) this is what they provide: https://www.chartwellscanhelp.com/
2 Week Food Hamper - costing £23 (not £30)
2 x 200g Block of cheese 14 x Portions of fresh fruit: 6 x apples, 4 x easy peel oranges and 4 x bananas 16 x Portions of vegetables: cucumber, carrots, baking potatoes, sweet potatoes, lettuce, tomato 1kg x Wholemeal penne pasta 4 x Chopped tomato tins 2 x Tuna chunks in brine 1 x Loaf of bread 9 x Healthy snacks
Rather different to the shabby bollocks Twitter image. Someone isn't saying the truth.
Yes. You.
Chartwells have already agreed it is not acceptable and are launching an investigation.
Um no, they've said it doesn't meet their specification, which is exactly what I've said. 🤷🏻♂️ They don't even know what school it was and haven't confirmed they've provided it.
What are the odds that the investigation reveals they didn't provide the hamper? Or that it wasn't a £30 hamper?
What happened to the £15 weekly Online gift card system? After some initial hiccups it was working perfectly well by the end of the Summer. It had the advantage of simplicity. Involving supermarkets delivering food. Something they might be expected to be quite good at.
This story about the Chartwell’s free food ‘hamper’, going out to poor kids, could turn me into a communist overnight. Someone, somewhere, thinks this is acceptable. To make a profit. Sweet weeping Jesus.
It also seems to be total and utter fake news, Twitter style.
If you go to Chartswell's own website then at list price (no negotiations) this is what they provide: https://www.chartwellscanhelp.com/
2 Week Food Hamper - costing £23 (not £30)
2 x 200g Block of cheese 14 x Portions of fresh fruit: 6 x apples, 4 x easy peel oranges and 4 x bananas 16 x Portions of vegetables: cucumber, carrots, baking potatoes, sweet potatoes, lettuce, tomato 1kg x Wholemeal penne pasta 4 x Chopped tomato tins 2 x Tuna chunks in brine 1 x Loaf of bread 9 x Healthy snacks
Rather different to the shabby bollocks Twitter image. Someone isn't saying the truth.
There have been a number of such photos though - It's not just this 1 tweet.
I have little doubt that some schools or their suppliers have given a hamper like that.
I do doubt that it came from Chartwells and cost £30 when their £23 hamper is world's apart.
Maybe a Council has only spent £5 and that was all they could get. Where is the evidence it came from Chartwells? Where is the evidence it cost £30. Has a Council or another body involved spent only £5 and pocketed the difference? More investigation needed than just swallowing the story whole.
Marcus Rashford is on the case
Whoever is responsible should be publicly shamed
What makes it worse for Chartwells is that they have previous form for doing exactly this
This story about the Chartwell’s free food ‘hamper’, going out to poor kids, could turn me into a communist overnight. Someone, somewhere, thinks this is acceptable. To make a profit. Sweet weeping Jesus.
It also seems to be total and utter fake news, Twitter style.
If you go to Chartswell's own website then at list price (no negotiations) this is what they provide: https://www.chartwellscanhelp.com/
2 Week Food Hamper - costing £23 (not £30)
2 x 200g Block of cheese 14 x Portions of fresh fruit: 6 x apples, 4 x easy peel oranges and 4 x bananas 16 x Portions of vegetables: cucumber, carrots, baking potatoes, sweet potatoes, lettuce, tomato 1kg x Wholemeal penne pasta 4 x Chopped tomato tins 2 x Tuna chunks in brine 1 x Loaf of bread 9 x Healthy snacks
Rather different to the shabby bollocks Twitter image. Someone isn't saying the truth.
Yes. You.
Chartwells have already agreed it is not acceptable and are launching an investigation.
This story about the Chartwell’s free food ‘hamper’, going out to poor kids, could turn me into a communist overnight. Someone, somewhere, thinks this is acceptable. To make a profit. Sweet weeping Jesus.
It also seems to be total and utter fake news, Twitter style.
If you go to Chartswell's own website then at list price (no negotiations) this is what they provide: https://www.chartwellscanhelp.com/
2 Week Food Hamper - costing £23 (not £30)
2 x 200g Block of cheese 14 x Portions of fresh fruit: 6 x apples, 4 x easy peel oranges and 4 x bananas 16 x Portions of vegetables: cucumber, carrots, baking potatoes, sweet potatoes, lettuce, tomato 1kg x Wholemeal penne pasta 4 x Chopped tomato tins 2 x Tuna chunks in brine 1 x Loaf of bread 9 x Healthy snacks
Rather different to the shabby bollocks Twitter image. Someone isn't saying the truth.
Yes. You.
Chartwells have already agreed it is not acceptable and are launching an investigation.
Just seen the reports of the secret service officer who made posts about Antifa being to blame for the violence, calling law makers treasonous and saying it's time to go on the offensive.....
Cycling 7 miles somewhere is a nothing thing to do. I used to cycle from Hampstead to Upper Thames Street which is about 5ish miles.
This is a classic bubble story. Everyone in the country is fearful that the NHS is about to collapse and the media are banging on about a bike ride that they know the PM isn't going to resign over or even discuss in any serious sense.
When did Johnson ever discuss anything in any serious sense!
Cycling 7 miles somewhere is a nothing thing to do. I used to cycle from Hampstead to Upper Thames Street which is about 5ish miles.
This is a classic bubble story. Everyone in the country is fearful that the NHS is about to collapse and the media are banging on about a bike ride that they know the PM isn't going to resign over or even discuss in any serious sense.
When did Johnson ever discuss anything in any serious sense!
The terms of trade with the EU in December?
The fisherfolk say guess again, I believe.
Will that be the one's who have got an average 15% increase in their catches this year and a guaranteed 25% increase (cumulo) over the next 4 years?
This story about the Chartwell’s free food ‘hamper’, going out to poor kids, could turn me into a communist overnight. Someone, somewhere, thinks this is acceptable. To make a profit. Sweet weeping Jesus.
It also seems to be total and utter fake news, Twitter style.
If you go to Chartswell's own website then at list price (no negotiations) this is what they provide: https://www.chartwellscanhelp.com/
2 Week Food Hamper - costing £23 (not £30)
2 x 200g Block of cheese 14 x Portions of fresh fruit: 6 x apples, 4 x easy peel oranges and 4 x bananas 16 x Portions of vegetables: cucumber, carrots, baking potatoes, sweet potatoes, lettuce, tomato 1kg x Wholemeal penne pasta 4 x Chopped tomato tins 2 x Tuna chunks in brine 1 x Loaf of bread 9 x Healthy snacks
Rather different to the shabby bollocks Twitter image. Someone isn't saying the truth.
There have been a number of such photos though - It's not just this 1 tweet.
I have little doubt that some schools or their suppliers have given a hamper like that.
I do doubt that it came from Chartwells and cost £30 when their £23 hamper is world's apart.
Maybe a Council has only spent £5 and that was all they could get. Where is the evidence it came from Chartwells? Where is the evidence it cost £30. Has a Council or another body involved spent only £5 and pocketed the difference? More investigation needed than just swallowing the story whole.
Marcus Rashford is on the case
Whoever is responsible should be publicly shamed
What makes it worse for Chartwells is that they have previous form for doing exactly this
The thing is that I can actually see what has happened here.
Chartwells are organised a proper system for the meals but due to poor communication and training local staff are doing crap things off their own backside rather than passing the problem to the appropriate people.
He was stupid to do anything that could create any sense of ambiguity about the stay at home message or add to the sense that there is one rule for the elite and another for everyone else. It's not a resigning matter but it's another example of why Johnson is such a poor PM.
I've not commented on this up to now as I don't think that targeting individuals (even the PM) is usually helpeful, but since Mike raises it, I think OLB's argument is the point, not the 7 miles itself. The policy is ambiguous (originally it was announced with a time limit which disappeared in the detailed guidance), there is no definition of local, and advice on whether you can drive to a spot where you'd like to walk and how far that can be is missing. To highlight an ambiguous policy with the PM's behaviour pushing at the boundary, and then refuse to give details simply adds to the confusion.
If the rule was "You can exercise on foot or by bike for N hours" or "at a distance of X", then I'm absolutely in favour of Johnson being able to do exactly that without anyone hassling him. But the position is unclear and the PM and his spokespeople are evasive about it, which absolurtely encourages people to do the sort of dodgy compromise with the semi-formulated rules that is perpetuating the pandemic longer than necessary.
Personally I favour a limit of say 4 miles, and if you want to exercise more, you can go round again. That's boring, someone might say? Don't waste our time with piffle - people are putting up with much worse. But any reasonable, clear rule would also be fine.
People should use their judgement
Derbyshire police were idiots
Boris has behaved reasonably in the context
The problem with the 4m limit is I can imagine that in central London there are parts where you would be forcing everyone to a very limited amount of open space
Part of the problem as I see it is the London media objecting to 7m as if it is some mad distance.
7m isn't really that long a walk in the shires, let alone a long cycle.
I think the law is drafted very well. Restrictions on individual liberty are already onerous (and in my view, go overboard), there is no need to tighten.
In the context of an infectious disease pandemic there is a big difference between a seven mile walk in the countryside and the same distance in an urban conurbation. Show me where in the Shires a seven mile walk would take you within a short distance on millions of homes?
Maybe but it's too complicated to have one law for city dwellers and another for everyone else.
There isn't a different law though. The rules say you should stay in your local area. Clearly Newham and Westminster are not in the same area (otherwise they could not have such different Covid infection rates and wouldn't be different London boroughs), whereas two hamlets in a sparsely populated shire seven miles apart might be. I think the rules are fairly clear and Johnson has at the very least pushed them to their limit. Add the fact that he chose to travel to the Borough with one of the highest number of Covid cases in the UK and I think it looks like a really poor choice. Not a resigning matter, but not unimportant.
I was not outraged - either of the faux or genuine variety - by the story but I was a tad surprised. You'd have thought, being the PM at a time like this, and given his leading role in the enormously damaging Cummings scandal which cost lives, he would have kept things impeccable.
Exactly the point I was making earlier. It does not matter if he didn't do anything wrong. The key thing is the media are all over this. It doesn't matter if they are a bunch of idiots, making a mole hill out of a mountain and getting their facts wrong and jumping to illogical conclusions.
The point is we all know they do this.
So why, why, why go on the bike ride? You have become the news story Boris and any idiot could have told you this would happen and it really doesn't matter that the whole thing is nonsense then does it?
Because Boris is a former Editor. Boundless disrespect for journalists is part of the job description and the rest is optional.
Interesting that Philip's devotional defence of Boris and all he does leads him to defend a £23 food package that looks to have about £15-worth of food in it.
Their boss supporting the Tories does wonders for basic ethics with this openly corrupt government.
Boris isn't behind what local Councils decide their local Schools provide. Hence why Chartwells are advertising for schools to choose them for their catering - it isn't centrally provided.
Just because some people rush to assumptions, should we all?
I think a more likely solution is that an amateur either in the school or local council has done something on the cheap by themselves cutting corners.
The food boxes for oldies last March were decent (yes there was the odd person who said I am vegan, who also can't eat this, that and the other who complained, or the odd box that contained some damaged food). But overall, if they had been utter shit and oldies were starving, we would have heard about it.
My elderly parents got the box and they said it was absolutely fine. A bit bland and samey, but had range of fruit, veg, tins etc, and you could easily live off it.
How come they haven't just managed to fire up that same scheme?
OIdies vote Tory, struggling kids dont vote at all.
If he cycled to the Olympic Park, there's no issue at all. If he was driven there and then had a bike around, it's poor stuff, but hardly the biggest deal in the world.
However, if I were a Tory today I'd much rather the focus was on Johnson's cycling than on the disgraceful £5 food packages private contractors are sending out to vulnerable kids at a cost of £30 per package to the taxpayer. That is a genuine scandal.
Yes it is. Apart from the rip off pricing, it is hard to see how to make much of an edible meal from the Chartwell package.
Lock them up! Would a lawyer please explain to a layman why that is not fraud?
Not to excuse it at all but I would imagine that logistics/admin plays a big part. Hence a voucher would make more sense although that would leave it open to vouchers for vodka charges.
Err what logistics are we talking about? The department for dividing a £30 box of food into 8 separate boxes?
No idea. Buying it, delivering it, sorting it? No idea what's involved but it's different from you or I going out to buy it all at Asda (for a fiver, obvs).
Anyone know any more?
This is a £20 box from Morrison's that they have miraculously managed to prepare without logistical problems, contains at least 5x as much and better quality.
What happened to the £15 weekly Online gift card system? After some initial hiccups it was working perfectly well by the end of the Summer. It had the advantage of simplicity. Involving supermarkets delivering food. Something they might be expected to be quite good at.
Quite. Morrison’s do an excellent free meal ‘hamper’ for about £20. Link them with Amazon or Ocado. Sorted.
My taxes are paying for poor kids to go deliberately underfed, during a plague, so someone can make a fat profit. Grrrr
This was the unfortunate first reaction from the Tory MP for Cleveland. Any normal human would say at least ‘gosh, this looks bad’
This story about the Chartwell’s free food ‘hamper’, going out to poor kids, could turn me into a communist overnight. Someone, somewhere, thinks this is acceptable. To make a profit. Sweet weeping Jesus.
It also seems to be total and utter fake news, Twitter style.
If you go to Chartswell's own website then at list price (no negotiations) this is what they provide: https://www.chartwellscanhelp.com/
2 Week Food Hamper - costing £23 (not £30)
2 x 200g Block of cheese 14 x Portions of fresh fruit: 6 x apples, 4 x easy peel oranges and 4 x bananas 16 x Portions of vegetables: cucumber, carrots, baking potatoes, sweet potatoes, lettuce, tomato 1kg x Wholemeal penne pasta 4 x Chopped tomato tins 2 x Tuna chunks in brine 1 x Loaf of bread 9 x Healthy snacks
Rather different to the shabby bollocks Twitter image. Someone isn't saying the truth.
Yes. You.
Chartwells have already agreed it is not acceptable and are launching an investigation.
Chartwells don't seem have been clever, although the ultimate fault would lie with the government for accepting such a bad contract. Part of the problem I think is that the government is not particularly honest itself and doesn't care about proper use of taxpayers money.
This story about the Chartwell’s free food ‘hamper’, going out to poor kids, could turn me into a communist overnight. Someone, somewhere, thinks this is acceptable. To make a profit. Sweet weeping Jesus.
It also seems to be total and utter fake news, Twitter style.
If you go to Chartswell's own website then at list price (no negotiations) this is what they provide: https://www.chartwellscanhelp.com/
2 Week Food Hamper - costing £23 (not £30)
2 x 200g Block of cheese 14 x Portions of fresh fruit: 6 x apples, 4 x easy peel oranges and 4 x bananas 16 x Portions of vegetables: cucumber, carrots, baking potatoes, sweet potatoes, lettuce, tomato 1kg x Wholemeal penne pasta 4 x Chopped tomato tins 2 x Tuna chunks in brine 1 x Loaf of bread 9 x Healthy snacks
Rather different to the shabby bollocks Twitter image. Someone isn't saying the truth.
It`s a disgrace if it is not fake news. Not sure.
But how the hell did the government get roped into providing food in this way? If more cash were needed why not increase tax credits/UB, or provide vouchers to parents to buy food?
What happened to the £15 weekly Online gift card system? After some initial hiccups it was working perfectly well by the end of the Summer. It had the advantage of simplicity. Involving supermarkets delivering food. Something they might be expected to be quite good at.
A Tory MP thought the funds were being swapped for prostitutes and cocaine so instead they diverted it to their mates businesses.
Cycling 7 miles somewhere is a nothing thing to do. I used to cycle from Hampstead to Upper Thames Street which is about 5ish miles.
This is a classic bubble story. Everyone in the country is fearful that the NHS is about to collapse and the media are banging on about a bike ride that they know the PM isn't going to resign over or even discuss in any serious sense.
When did Johnson ever discuss anything in any serious sense!
The terms of trade with the EU in December?
The fisherfolk say guess again, I believe.
Happy fishermen are rarer than happy farmers.....
With their expertise at trawling for small fry they could always retrain as news hounds.
Interesting that Philip's devotional defence of Boris and all he does leads him to defend a £23 food package that looks to have about £15-worth of food in it.
Their boss supporting the Tories does wonders for basic ethics with this openly corrupt government.
£15??? Where do you shop, Selfridges food hall?
Someone has costed the ‘hamper’, it’s about £5 in value. So £25 of taxpayer’s money has disappeared *somewhere*
The food boxes for oldies last March were decent (yes there was the odd person who said I am vegan, who also can't eat this, that and the other who complained, or the odd box that contained some damaged food). But overall, if they had been utter shit and oldies were starving, we would have heard about it.
My elderly parents got the box and they said it was absolutely fine. A bit bland and samey, but had range of fruit, veg, tins etc, and you could easily live off it.
How come they haven't just managed to fire up that same scheme?
Maybe the same reason that the government increases the pension while cutting benefits for families with children. Old people can vote, kids can't.
Regardless of cynical take, the point is that they already had contracts / scheme that has been organized in the recent past. I wonder why they just didn't fire that back up again? Surely that is easier than going for a totally different scheme.
It does seem odd. Chartwells specialise in school meals so I guess they were able to argue that they had expertise in this area. They do the food at my youngest's primary, I can't say I am massively impressed about the quality (other parents moan a lot about small portion sizes although our daughter says they're fine - always reminds me of the joke in Annie Hall about how the food at a particular venue is terrible - "and such small portions").
This story about the Chartwell’s free food ‘hamper’, going out to poor kids, could turn me into a communist overnight. Someone, somewhere, thinks this is acceptable. To make a profit. Sweet weeping Jesus.
It also seems to be total and utter fake news, Twitter style.
If you go to Chartswell's own website then at list price (no negotiations) this is what they provide: https://www.chartwellscanhelp.com/
2 Week Food Hamper - costing £23 (not £30)
2 x 200g Block of cheese 14 x Portions of fresh fruit: 6 x apples, 4 x easy peel oranges and 4 x bananas 16 x Portions of vegetables: cucumber, carrots, baking potatoes, sweet potatoes, lettuce, tomato 1kg x Wholemeal penne pasta 4 x Chopped tomato tins 2 x Tuna chunks in brine 1 x Loaf of bread 9 x Healthy snacks
Rather different to the shabby bollocks Twitter image. Someone isn't saying the truth.
There have been a number of such photos though - It's not just this 1 tweet.
I have little doubt that some schools or their suppliers have given a hamper like that.
I do doubt that it came from Chartwells and cost £30 when their £23 hamper is world's apart.
Maybe a Council has only spent £5 and that was all they could get. Where is the evidence it came from Chartwells? Where is the evidence it cost £30. Has a Council or another body involved spent only £5 and pocketed the difference? More investigation needed than just swallowing the story whole.
Marcus Rashford is on the case
Whoever is responsible should be publicly shamed
What makes it worse for Chartwells is that they have previous form for doing exactly this
The thing is that I can actually see what has happened here.
Chartwells are organised a proper system for the meals but due to poor communication and training local staff are doing crap things off their own backside rather than passing the problem to the appropriate people.
Oh totally. They haven't set out to do this (national embarrassment and an investigation into your finances not usually a good thing to invite). But there is a clear lack of anyone actually thinking what the needs are of these hungry kids. As I suggested yesterday as the government are doing this only under duress they won't have bothered working very hard on the contract or the details.
Love that Philip insists its all fake news. Defence of the Tory donors at All Costs.
Have you got the slightest shred of evidence it isn't fake news? Your very own Tweet said that isn't their specification. 🤦🏻♂️
Considering that this is being organised AFAIK by schools or Councils and not centrally then just immediately assuming that it is Chartwells and that it cost £30 when their own website says that a £23 hamper is completely different smells like BS to me.
Care for a charity bet? £10 charity bet if you fancy, I would suggest to a food bank charity but you can pick any you want says that the investigation reveals this either didn't come from Chartwells or did not cost £30. What do you think?
This story about the Chartwell’s free food ‘hamper’, going out to poor kids, could turn me into a communist overnight. Someone, somewhere, thinks this is acceptable. To make a profit. Sweet weeping Jesus.
It also seems to be total and utter fake news, Twitter style.
If you go to Chartswell's own website then at list price (no negotiations) this is what they provide: https://www.chartwellscanhelp.com/
2 Week Food Hamper - costing £23 (not £30)
2 x 200g Block of cheese 14 x Portions of fresh fruit: 6 x apples, 4 x easy peel oranges and 4 x bananas 16 x Portions of vegetables: cucumber, carrots, baking potatoes, sweet potatoes, lettuce, tomato 1kg x Wholemeal penne pasta 4 x Chopped tomato tins 2 x Tuna chunks in brine 1 x Loaf of bread 9 x Healthy snacks
Rather different to the shabby bollocks Twitter image. Someone isn't saying the truth.
There have been a number of such photos though - It's not just this 1 tweet.
I have little doubt that some schools or their suppliers have given a hamper like that.
I do doubt that it came from Chartwells and cost £30 when their £23 hamper is world's apart.
Maybe a Council has only spent £5 and that was all they could get. Where is the evidence it came from Chartwells? Where is the evidence it cost £30. Has a Council or another body involved spent only £5 and pocketed the difference? More investigation needed than just swallowing the story whole.
Marcus Rashford is on the case
Whoever is responsible should be publicly shamed
What makes it worse for Chartwells is that they have previous form for doing exactly this
The thing is that I can actually see what has happened here.
Chartwells are organised a proper system for the meals but due to poor communication and training local staff are doing crap things off their own backside rather than passing the problem to the appropriate people.
It might not be deliberate on their part, but if the reports are accurate, then a "proper system" it most definitely is not.
In a rather happier O/T my son has got an offer to study PPE at St Anne's next year. I am chuffed to bits for him.
Wonderful! With luck, he'll be able to have a normal experience by then - or, as Max Beerbohm phrased it, having all the nonsense that was knocked out of him at school gently put back at Oxford
Interesting that Philip's devotional defence of Boris and all he does leads him to defend a £23 food package that looks to have about £15-worth of food in it.
Their boss supporting the Tories does wonders for basic ethics with this openly corrupt government.
Boris isn't behind what local Councils decide their local Schools provide. Hence why Chartwells are advertising for schools to choose them for their catering - it isn't centrally provided.
Just because some people rush to assumptions, should we all?
I think a more likely solution is that an amateur either in the school or local council has done something on the cheap by themselves cutting corners.
Philip, there are now dozens of these photos from all across the country. Follow @BootstrapCook - or Rashford - to see. And Chartwells have been in trouble for exactly this BEFORE
The money we’re paying for food is not getting to the kids. If it’s a cock up people should be sacked, if it’s blatant profiteering - and it does look quite bad - they should be investigated.
On topic, as someone who has taken up cycling (mostly indoor cycling on a Roger Black and a Peloton, sorry Dura Ace) I can understand the bug Mike talks about.
That said, I still wouldn't like to cycle on the roads, I've seen too many idiotic drivers in action.
I can go up and down virtual mountains from the comfort of my pain cave without getting cold or wet nor having to risk idiot drivers while watching Netflix...no brainer for me
Odd. There are plenty of mountain biking areas which are free of roads, and where you can enjoy the countryside and fresh air without resorting to yet another sterile, screen-based simulation of real life.
Real life, sounds terrible...
I say this genuinely, because you are a poster on here who I always read and I respect. But that response, together with your "pain cave" (tmi?) situation does explain much of your attitude to lockdown = lock us down long and hard.
For people on the 12th floor of a council tower block, their basement pain cave is their downstairs neighbour's sitting room.
Is a fair point / criticism. I am lucky that lockdown doesn't hugely effect me. I already work from home, i have a decent sized garden and live rurally so I can head out without worrying about bumping into other people. I am fully aware that if the above isn't the case, it going to be a lot shitter...
However, I have never seriously suggested we should go like China, or even France / Spain, where lockdown really did mean not going outside at all, except for food / medicine. I thought the government policy on outside exercise is perfectly sensible, and also that we should allow things like golf, cycling i.e. activities where you aren't going to be in close contact with other people.
What I have advocated is normally get the lockdown in place quickly and for enough time...which can come off as being an lockdown absolutist.
Exactly right. Wanting something done at a time when it works best doesn't mean you relish it. God forbid but say I need a cancer op and I know that the sooner it happens the higher are my chances for a good recovery. I will probably be keen to go in and get under the knife asap. Does this make me a "major operation under general anesthetic" lover? I don't think so,
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Good year for PPE, will he be majoring in masks or gowns?
b) is indeed far harder to find; I've been keeping a close watch for any data like that for a while.
They did have data on the (fortunately very few) children who were hospitalised early in the first wave: the majority had no co-morbidities at all; even the majority of those on ventilators had no co-morbidities. The very very few deaths were, however, overwhelmingly concentrated in those with co-morbidities.
ICNARC publish their report and they do list co-morbidities, but those are severe co-morbidities (not like the ones listed on the NHS data for deaths, which include asthma). Those severe co-morbidities are again in a minority (a very small minority) in the ICU admissions, but the deaths tend to skew towards them noticeably.
It does seem to point towards co-morbidities (especially less severe ones) not protecting much from hospitalisation, but very possibly making a crucial difference once you are hospitalised.
EDIT: And once we're well under way with vaccinations (hopefully) passing 4 million a week, each 10 year age band should take about a fortnight or so, possibly less. On top of that, as herd immunity swells (hopefully), restrictions should be progressively able to be lightened without overwhelming hospitals, anyway. We could be arguing over a fourteen day period under Tier 1 or lighter.
I was born in Loveday Street Maternity Hospital in Birmingham City Centre. Loveday Street still exists but not the Maternity Hospital. I was planning to walk into the City along the canal paths, to Loveday Street and back again, and take in a few hostelries on the journey. Bit sad to do it now that all the pubs are shut. Might still do it though.
Enjoy your birthday.
--AS
ie it's far away from everyone. Very few people live in the Peak District vs Rotherham or Manchester.
https://twitter.com/munchbunch87/status/1348747916563918849?s=21
This kind of curtain twitching, authoritarian zealous hatred of others whether by yourself or Derbyshire Police is dumb.
Exercise is every bit as legal as shopping is. I can go and do go shopping at my tiny local Co-op, a few hundred metres from my house. Sometimes I drive to my nearest Aldi or Morrisons, about two miles from my house. Sometimes I drive to my nearest ASDA which is a much bigger supermarket with more options (including George clothing range and back to school essentials) which is a few miles further away. Is that unlawful? Is it against the lockdown rules? Am I only supposed to shop at my tiny local Co-op because that happens to be the nearest to me and visiting ASDA by car is verbotten?
It is lawful to drive. It is lawful to shop. It is lawful to exercise. The rest is nonsense.
If you go to Chartswell's own website then at list price (no negotiations) this is what they provide:
https://www.chartwellscanhelp.com/
2 Week Food Hamper - costing £23 (not £30)
2 x 200g Block of cheese
14 x Portions of fresh fruit: 6 x apples, 4 x easy peel oranges and 4 x bananas
16 x Portions of vegetables: cucumber, carrots, baking potatoes, sweet potatoes, lettuce, tomato
1kg x Wholemeal penne pasta
4 x Chopped tomato tins
2 x Tuna chunks in brine
1 x Loaf of bread
9 x Healthy snacks
Rather different to the shabby bollocks Twitter image. Someone isn't saying the truth.
Roger. That's very interesting. However, I'm struggling to see how this connects to the previous posts?
It genuinely looks like a resigning matter to me.
The point is we all know they do this.
So why, why, why go on the bike ride? You have become the news story Boris and any idiot could have told you this would happen and it really doesn't matter that the whole thing is nonsense then does it?
It'll certainly be an improvement.
https://www.chartwellscanhelp.com/
My elderly parents got the box and they said it was absolutely fine. A bit bland and samey, but had range of fruit, veg, tins etc, and you could easily live off it.
How come they haven't just managed to fire up that same scheme?
https://twitter.com/bootstrapcook/status/1348945565866995713?s=21
https://twitter.com/bootstrapcook/status/1348946087894249472?s=21
https://twitter.com/marcusrashford/status/1348749702729244679?s=21
My favourite. Someone decided a WHOLE carrot was too generous
https://twitter.com/lmt1180/status/1348751047242768387?s=21
Also BTW - Chartwell's don't deliver to the door, only to somewhere convenient to them (and not listed either anywhere obvious).
I do doubt that it came from Chartwells and cost £30 when their £23 hamper is world's apart.
Maybe a Council has only spent £5 and that was all they could get. Where is the evidence it came from Chartwells? Where is the evidence it cost £30. Has a Council or another body involved spent only £5 and pocketed the difference? More investigation needed than just swallowing the story whole.
How do you know it came from Chartwells?
Why wasn't the £23 hamper ordered instead?
Too many questions for me. If there's an answer I'd love to know it. Someone looks like they've done something dodgy, I'm just not sure who it is.
I think "so discredited" as a theory is not quite right although there are likely as many papers suggesting modifications or alternatives as proposing the central premise.
I have no idea whether security advises/permits the PM to go for a bike ride alone, but in my ignorance of these matters, I'd view setting off from his residence on a bike as not very secure, even with accompanying officers.
In fact, I'd try to randomise the time & place where the PM takes such exercise/relaxation. But I'm ignorant, as I say.
Good morning, everyone.
Not that it definitely came from Chartwells, not that it definitely cost £30. Those are assumptions and don't seem to me to be valid ones.
Delivery shouldn't cost £7 per household either. A school could pay for one person to collect the boxes and deliver them at well under £7 per head.
Which means they are most at risk of the consequences if the hospitals are overwhelmed by too many cases.
Chartwells have already agreed it is not acceptable and are launching an investigation.
https://twitter.com/Chartwells_UK/status/1348718003551133698
*Obviously I just made up that figure, but you know what I mean.
Their boss supporting the Tories does wonders for basic ethics with this openly corrupt government.
What are the odds that the investigation reveals they didn't provide the hamper? Or that it wasn't a £30 hamper?
It had the advantage of simplicity.
Involving supermarkets delivering food. Something they might be expected to be quite good at.
Whoever is responsible should be publicly shamed
What makes it worse for Chartwells is that they have previous form for doing exactly this
https://twitter.com/marinanigrelli/status/1348701472461090817?s=21
Chartwells are organised a proper system for the meals but due to poor communication and training local staff are doing crap things off their own backside rather than passing the problem to the appropriate people.
Just because some people rush to assumptions, should we all?
I think a more likely solution is that an amateur either in the school or local council has done something on the cheap by themselves cutting corners.
still, makes for fewer likes on Twitter.
My taxes are paying for poor kids to go deliberately underfed, during a plague, so someone can make a fat profit. Grrrr
This was the unfortunate first reaction from the Tory MP for Cleveland. Any normal human would say at least ‘gosh, this looks bad’
https://twitter.com/simonclarkemp/status/1348756290785468416?s=21
But how the hell did the government get roped into providing food in this way? If more cash were needed why not increase tax credits/UB, or provide vouchers to parents to buy food?
Someone has costed the ‘hamper’, it’s about £5 in value. So £25 of taxpayer’s money has disappeared *somewhere*
Considering that this is being organised AFAIK by schools or Councils and not centrally then just immediately assuming that it is Chartwells and that it cost £30 when their own website says that a £23 hamper is completely different smells like BS to me.
Care for a charity bet? £10 charity bet if you fancy, I would suggest to a food bank charity but you can pick any you want says that the investigation reveals this either didn't come from Chartwells or did not cost £30. What do you think?
The money we’re paying for food is not getting to the kids. If it’s a cock up people should be sacked, if it’s blatant profiteering - and it does look quite bad - they should be investigated.