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With 98% of the votes counted the Dems looks set to gain both Georgia US Senate seats – politicalbet

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  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,217
    edited January 2021
    Scott_xP said:
    Yep. This is what I am opining will happen. He is net toxic to the GOP brand and so they need to have this battle and win it. Which they will (both) because the Republican party is bigger than any one man - they're not called the GOP for nothing - and they exist to win power not to service the ego of individuals.

    Time to dig up the old strapline. Trump is Toast. Again.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,244
    MrEd said:

    MattW said:

    Do any wine buffs know whether Barossa Valley Shiraz is any good?

    Laithwaites are trying to sell me a case at half price.

    Yes very good. Snap it up and I am heading to the site now.
    Thanks.

    They say there are 750 cases.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,315

    eek said:


    In the example you are using the person Blair appointed was Gavyn Davies - who you can't really call a Labour placeman.

    Really? From the Font of All Human Knowledge:

    Upon becoming Chairman Davies resigned his membership of the Labour Party.... Davies has in the past donated part of his wealth to the Labour Party, of which he had been a long-term supporter. His appointment as BBC chairman sparked allegations of cronyism from Opposition political parties - Davies' wife Sue Nye was a private secretary of Prime Minister Gordon Brown and the pair are known to be good friends.
    The fact that Labour behaved badly is no excuse for the Tory party now to do the same. Though it appears to be the excuse trotted out by some Tory supporters.

    And so our public life and democracy continue to be degraded.
  • MrEd said:

    Exactly.
    A more likely scenario is that McConnell is booted out.
    By whom specifically?

    I can see McConnell walking from a thankless role. But he's personally just renewed his electoral MOT until 2026. And which Trump-aligned Senator wants the poisoned chalice? It's a job that MIGHT be worth having come 2022, but I am not sure I'd give the GOP a 30% chance of Senate control (although I'd give 60%+ of House control). Until then, and very probably after, it's hell and career damaging.

    Someone hopelessly naive (Tommy Tuberville or whoever) might be willing to do it but would never get support. Someone extremely ambitious (Ted Cruz for example) might get support but I can't see touching it with a bargepole.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,165
    edited January 2021

    A former Goldman Sachs banker will this week be installed by Boris Johnson as the next BBC chairman amid a deepening debate about the fate of the television licence fee and unprecedented competition from commercial rivals.

    Sky News has learnt that the government is preparing to announce the appointment of Richard Sharp as Sir David Clementi's successor as soon as Thursday.

    Mr Sharp, who during his long career at Goldman was once Rishi Sunak's boss, has spent much of the past year as an unpaid adviser to the chancellor on the economic response to the coronavirus pandemic...

    Mr Sharp was an adviser to the PM during the latter's time as mayor of London, and has historically been a donor to the Conservative Party, although one ally of the new BBC chair said he had given just £2,500 to it in the last decade.


    https://news.sky.com/story/ministers-to-unveil-former-goldman-banker-sharp-as-new-bbc-chair-12180454

    The Guardian are going to have fits....and again it looks like jobs for your mates.

    There's an incredibly casual, almost careless - in fact, almost proud - quality to the govrnment's cronyism. And again, it does have to be said that the current western government that most reminds of, is Trump's ; in a politer and subtler English version.
    Perhaps take a look at the most corrupt country in Western Europe.

    Wales ... where the Labour Party refused even to have a register of lobbyists in the Parliament (unlike England, Scotland or Stormont).

    "It needs more thought", said Labour.

    It would be nice if Labour actually practised what they preached in the one country in which they are in Government.

    All public positions of any prominence in Wales are determined by closeness to Welsh Government ministers.
    Many years ago I was part of a professional delegation to a small Mediterranean country. Our professional colleagues complained bitterly to us about the corruption locally. However, listening to them I formed the impression that it wasn't the corruption per se to which they objected; rather that as 'their friends' were out of office, they didn't get the benefit of it.
    This sounds like the Greece and Portugal I know and love, albeit Portugal is Atlantic rather than Mediterranean. The current centre-right Greek prime minister is actually doing quite a good job of fighting it.

  • I'm afraid not. The scale of the contracts awarded to personal networks this year far exceed any of those, partly because the once-in-a-century scale of the pandemic challenge has far exceeded those. The second reason is that the prevailing conservatve political model from the USA, which British conservatives have shadowed for 50 years, has licensed that public lack of shame.

    Regular readers will know that I'm no fan of this government, but I really don't think that is right. A lot of this stuff comes from Guardian and NYT articles which dig until they find some very tenuous connection between a company and someone associated with the government, exaggerate its importance, and then jump to an unsubstantiated causal connection. For example, this utter silliness:

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/nov/26/matt-hancock-former-neighbour-won-covid-test-kit-contract-after-whatsapp-message

    Matt Hancock acted entirely properly, directing the guy to the website where he could contact the Dept of Health. But of course, the Guardian makes it sound like something dodgy.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    kinabalu said:

    Damn, the SE of England really is a mess.

    Good job no-one lives there....
    London is crawling with virus. I am loath to venture anywhere that has other people in the equation until I have the protection.
    How can it be when movement has been heavily restricted in some form or other since November?

    Schools were open until mid-late Dec. Pretty obvious they were the main vector of transmission in our neighbourhood.
    Or the measures only delayed the inevitable. One of the two.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,444

    Cyclefree said:


    As would attacking the courts and judicial independence, which China is going to do next in HK.

    TBH I'm surprised that the original settlement has lasted as long as it has. But China under Xi Jinping is a whole new level of tyranny, not just in Hong Kong of course.

    Quite how the Chinese government thinks that it can retain Hong Kong's position as a major financial centre and trading hub whilst arbitrarily arresting people, including foreigners, is a complete mystery. They seem to be spectacularly dumb.
    They don't care. They think they are now so strong, people will do business with them anyway. And they reckon lots of business that leaves Hong Kong will move to Shanghai, to please the government. And they are probably right.

    Remember, Beijing doesn't LIKE Hong Kong or Hong Kongers

    Long term, Shanghai and Singapore will dominate Asian finance etc. HK has a future of sad slow decline.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Yep. This is what I am opining will happen. He is net toxic to the GOP brand and so they need to have this battle and win it. Which they will (both) because the Republican party is bigger than any one man - they're not called the GOP for nothing - and they exist to win power not to service the ego of individuals.

    Time to dig up the old strapline. Trump is Toast. Again.
    I always find it funny when the left give conservatives advice.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,713
    MaxPB said:

    SandraMc said:

    MaxPB said:

    SandraMc said:

    eek said:

    MaxPB said:

    SandraMc said:

    We have just had a letter in the post saying that my husband's 2nd vax due to be given next Tuesday is now postponed to March. Not happy.

    Allowing another person to be immunised. Deal with it.
    +1 - it's an example of common sense being followed to maximize the number of people vaccinated.

    And, yes, the communication of this has been crap but hey our PM is a Mr B Johnson who has been shown to continually leave things to the last second in the hope that he doesn't need to announce anything awkward.
    Even though Pfizer has expressed concern about the effectiveness with this delay?
    The regulator and leading scientists all over the world suggest a single jab has upwards of 70% efficacy, some think it could be as higher as 89%. It's also why Germany are seeking an extension to the 42 day maximum gap between jabs to 84 days as we've approved here.

    We're all in this together and simply vaccinating a larger number people is better than vaccinating a smaller number. If that means people have to be careful for another 12 weeks (which is what people seem to be bitching about) then tough luck. Everyone has a responsibility to ensure that the health service keeps functioning for cancer patients, people who suffer strokes and heart attacks and all sorts of other life threatening medical problems that are being overlooked right now.
    OK. I am reassured a bit. I thought one jab was just 50 per cent effective. (I heard that on the BBC news)
    That's based on a BMJ paper which looked at the downside and included infections during the initial 10 days after the jab, but we know there is a delay between day 0 of being jabbed and the the immune system being equipped to respond, we think it's about two weeks. Looking at the data for two weeks onwards after the first jab scientists think the single jab has 70-90% efficacy.

    Still in your husband's position I'd be staying indoors and being careful for the next 12 weeks and then for another 2 weeks after the second jab. Just to be sure.
    There is no evidence that there is protection from a single Pfizer after 3 weeks. There may be, or it may degrade without the booster. We just don't know yet because that study has not been done.

    We do know that antibody levels are quite low after a single dose. How much this matters, we don't yet know.

    https://twitter.com/EJohnWherry/status/1346130823213408256?s=19
  • Scott_xP said:
    Of course a major part of the issue with why trucks aren't able to cross borders is that (a) various foodstuffs need vet / sanitary declarations that can't be done as the people haven't been hired (b) paperwork can't go onto a computer system that doesn't exist and (c) customs agents both to help get the paperwork done and then inspect it for HMCE haven't been hired.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,444
    MattW said:

    Do any wine buffs know whether Barossa Valley Shiraz is any good?

    Laithwaites are trying to sell me a case at half price.

    That's like asking is Burgundy any good. Some Barossa shiraz is world class, some is utter plonk.

    Price will be your guide. If it is north of £15 a bottle it will likely be good. Over £25 very good. Check Vivino ratings
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    While we are all haranguing HMG and Boris, spare a thought for the Dutch government, who seem to be doing considerably worse

    https://twitter.com/duncanrobinson/status/1346767012924678144?s=21

    The inability to even start vaccinating until next week is absolutely unforgivable.
    I predict that the more Brexity end of the market is going to continue obsessing about what’s going on in the EU for a very, very long time.
    Nothing to do with Brexit. This is just comparing large advanced nations with each other, especially if they are culturally similar. If Canada had fucked up like the Dutch I’d make the same comparison. And everyone compares European countries (in and out of the EU) with Australia and NZ

    Meanwhile the day you stop obsessively comparing Scotland with England will be the day you snuff it. Which I hope is a long distant moment, of course.


    How many spookily similar identities will you have gone through in that time? Looking like a three a year monkey on your back at the moment.
    Canada haven't being doing well. https://globalnews.ca/news/7553419/coronavirus-vaccine-canada-distribution-slow/

    The US is doing a lot of vaccinations, but proportionately, not well. The whole process is fucked up, there.
    Totally f***ed up indeed. At least in parts of Florida.

    Over 75s with pre-existing conditions like "camping out for a Grateful Dead concert" in a queue at 1.30am
    The cow is giving kerosene
    The kid can't read at seventeen
    The words he knows are all obscene
    But it's alright

    I will get by
    I will survive
  • kinabalu said:

    Damn, the SE of England really is a mess.

    Good job no-one lives there....
    London is crawling with virus. I am loath to venture anywhere that has other people in the equation until I have the protection.
    How can it be when movement has been heavily restricted in some form or other since November?

    Schools were open until mid-late Dec. Pretty obvious they were the main vector of transmission in our neighbourhood.
    Massive outbreaks now in the very small town closest to me. The high school was open until Dec 22nd. This isn't a coincidence.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    edited January 2021
    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:


    As would attacking the courts and judicial independence, which China is going to do next in HK.

    TBH I'm surprised that the original settlement has lasted as long as it has. But China under Xi Jinping is a whole new level of tyranny, not just in Hong Kong of course.

    Quite how the Chinese government thinks that it can retain Hong Kong's position as a major financial centre and trading hub whilst arbitrarily arresting people, including foreigners, is a complete mystery. They seem to be spectacularly dumb.
    They don't care. They think they are now so strong, people will do business with them anyway. And they reckon lots of business that leaves Hong Kong will move to Shanghai, to please the government. And they are probably right.

    Remember, Beijing doesn't LIKE Hong Kong or Hong Kongers

    Long term, Shanghai and Singapore will dominate Asian finance etc. HK has a future of sad slow decline.
    Lots of foreign investors are very, very wary of investing money via Shanghai or on the mainland. HK serves (served?) as a well governed gateway to investing in China for a lot of non-Chinese funds where the courts were respected and rule of law upheld, almost a carbon copy of the City in Asia. That money isn't going to go to Shanghai, it will most likely not go to China at all which means other Asian countries will benefit from more FDI via paper written in Singapore and London.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,361
    kle4 said:

    Cyclefree said:


    As would attacking the courts and judicial independence, which China is going to do next in HK.

    TBH I'm surprised that the original settlement has lasted as long as it has. But China under Xi Jinping is a whole new level of tyranny, not just in Hong Kong of course.

    Quite how the Chinese government thinks that it can retain Hong Kong's position as a major financial centre and trading hub whilst arbitrarily arresting people, including foreigners, is a complete mystery. They seem to be spectacularly dumb.
    Maybe they are prepared to take the hit. Emperor Xi may not care.
    It is important to remember that until quite recently, the Chinese oligarchy had quite vigorous, *internal* policy making disputes.

    Such as the fallout from the ASAT test done by the military. Who failed to inform the civilian Chinese Space program. Who then explained to the top guys what would have happened if the test had endangered or even damage the International Space Station.

    The civililan program now has oversight on future tests and has political control now...
  • MrEd said:

    Exactly.
    A more likely scenario is that McConnell is booted out.
    And his supporters primaried where they can be over the next two years. In the real world, republican voters are appalled by the way some repubs are happy to work with the most hostile, left wing democrat party, well, ever.

    Firstly, utterly nuts to think of Biden as left wing, not only by our standards but also by US standards. He is a moderate, triangulating Democrat. Probably the most centrist living Democrat President.

    Secondly, majority/minority leaders don't have "supporters" in the sense of Presidential candidate or whatever. What he needs to remain in post, should he wish to do so, is not a parade of "supporters" to cheerlead for him and condemn Trump. What he needs is for them to express confidence in private offices and not move against him in favour of some as yet unnamed wide-eyed maniac who may help them in the primary but will hinder them against Democrats.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    kinabalu said:

    Damn, the SE of England really is a mess.

    Good job no-one lives there....
    London is crawling with virus. I am loath to venture anywhere that has other people in the equation until I have the protection.
    How can it be when movement has been heavily restricted in some form or other since November?

    Schools were open until mid-late Dec. Pretty obvious they were the main vector of transmission in our neighbourhood.
    Massive outbreaks now in the very small town closest to me. The high school was open until Dec 22nd. This isn't a coincidence.
    I sacrificed a chicken to the gods.
    The drought ended.

    This isn't a coincidence.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,036

    kinabalu said:

    Damn, the SE of England really is a mess.

    Good job no-one lives there....
    London is crawling with virus. I am loath to venture anywhere that has other people in the equation until I have the protection.
    How can it be when movement has been heavily restricted in some form or other since November?

    Dickheads acting like dickheads.

  • kinabalu said:

    Damn, the SE of England really is a mess.

    Good job no-one lives there....
    London is crawling with virus. I am loath to venture anywhere that has other people in the equation until I have the protection.
    How can it be when movement has been heavily restricted in some form or other since November?

    Schools were open until mid-late Dec. Pretty obvious they were the main vector of transmission in our neighbourhood.
    Massive outbreaks now in the very small town closest to me. The high school was open until Dec 22nd. This isn't a coincidence.
    We all knew that schools were a major vector - every school around here went through repeated cycles of having to send home both pupil bubbles and their teachers. At one point a third of my daughter's school was off, and the school that MRs RP was a TA at was close to having to running out of teachers. Local big academy has just had a teacher die of it.

    So obviously, we kept the schools open because the government had declared them safe. Can't go back on that as otherwise people ask what has changed? How many people will we have killed by letting the schools go back for one day this week?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Couple of questions about the vaccination.
    Will those vaccinated have some sort of certificate to say that the =vaccination has taken place? I can't imagine rocking up to a, for example, Thai airport and them happily accepting my word that I've been 'done'.
    and
    Has the Govt. done another U turn. It was reported the morning that pharmacies wouldn't be involved, but I'm sure I've seen somewhere, from later today, that they will?

    You do get a card to say you have been vaccinated

    The Government have not said they will not use Pharmacies. There are issues with the Pfizer vaccine as the whole stock must be used within a certain time and the Government requires Pharmacies to confirm that they will use them so as not waste any. Pharmacies will be fully involved in the Astrazeneca rollout as it lasts 6 months in a fridge.
    Also I’m not sure what community pharmacies add over GPs at this point with the exception of complexity. We are constrained by supply at present.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,410

    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Yep. This is what I am opining will happen. He is net toxic to the GOP brand and so they need to have this battle and win it. Which they will (both) because the Republican party is bigger than any one man - they're not called the GOP for nothing - and they exist to win power not to service the ego of individuals.

    Time to dig up the old strapline. Trump is Toast. Again.
    I always find it funny when the left give conservatives advice.
    There's regular advice on what Labour and the LinDems need to do from folk who never would dream of voting for them.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,444
    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:


    As would attacking the courts and judicial independence, which China is going to do next in HK.

    TBH I'm surprised that the original settlement has lasted as long as it has. But China under Xi Jinping is a whole new level of tyranny, not just in Hong Kong of course.

    Quite how the Chinese government thinks that it can retain Hong Kong's position as a major financial centre and trading hub whilst arbitrarily arresting people, including foreigners, is a complete mystery. They seem to be spectacularly dumb.
    They don't care. They think they are now so strong, people will do business with them anyway. And they reckon lots of business that leaves Hong Kong will move to Shanghai, to please the government. And they are probably right.

    Remember, Beijing doesn't LIKE Hong Kong or Hong Kongers

    Long term, Shanghai and Singapore will dominate Asian finance etc. HK has a future of sad slow decline.
    Lots of foreign investors are very, very wary of investing money via Shanghai or on the mainland. HK serves (served?) as a well governed gateway to investing in China for a lot of non-Chinese funds where the courts were respected and rule of law upheld, almost a carbon copy of the City in Asia. That money isn't going to go to Shanghai, it will most likely not go to China at all which means other Asian countries will benefit from more FDI via paper written in Singapore and London.
    Sure. But in the end the sheer size of China will predominate, and many banks and much fintech and the rest will have to locate partly in China. There will be tacit pressure to go to Shanghai, to keep Beijing happy. Ongoing turmoil in HK will further push people to the "mainland".

    China is a threat to everyone. Finally, a malignant superpower too big to fight and too rich to ignore. Bleak.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,410
    Desmond Swayne MP Is "seething".
    "We need an alternative strategy."
    What that might be he did not divulge.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,217
    edited January 2021

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    While we are all haranguing HMG and Boris, spare a thought for the Dutch government, who seem to be doing considerably worse

    https://twitter.com/duncanrobinson/status/1346767012924678144?s=21

    The inability to even start vaccinating until next week is absolutely unforgivable.
    Some of the quotes from Dutch politicians are identical to those from French pols. And quite mind-boggling

    ‘It doesn’t matter if you start vaccinating earlier on some symbolic date’

    ‘Vaccinating everyone is a marathon, not a sprint’

    No mate, it is a sprint. It is now, literally, a race against the virus. Injection v infection.
    God, it's like being chased by a murderer and shouting "Run for your life! Why are you just jogging?"

    "Well, it's a marathon, don't you know, not a spri.... erk! Aaagh!"
    LOL. Yes, "marathon not a sprint" is perhaps not the best old hoary chestnut for this project. But what about "more haste less speed"? That's a higher quality old hoary chestnut. And on "targets", what do they actually contribute? It's my experience that having them usually detracts from the process. Makes it less efficient.

    1. Work as hard as you can to do as many as you can every day. This is life and death.
    2. You need to do X by the end of the month.

    (1) is usually better imo. (2) is only needed if that X is a magic number with specific real world meaning, i.e. if you end up with X minus 1 it's all a waste.
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,780
    Cyclefree said:

    eek said:


    In the example you are using the person Blair appointed was Gavyn Davies - who you can't really call a Labour placeman.

    Really? From the Font of All Human Knowledge:

    Upon becoming Chairman Davies resigned his membership of the Labour Party.... Davies has in the past donated part of his wealth to the Labour Party, of which he had been a long-term supporter. His appointment as BBC chairman sparked allegations of cronyism from Opposition political parties - Davies' wife Sue Nye was a private secretary of Prime Minister Gordon Brown and the pair are known to be good friends.
    The fact that Labour behaved badly is no excuse for the Tory party now to do the same. Though it appears to be the excuse trotted out by some Tory supporters.

    And so our public life and democracy continue to be degraded.
    It's in no way comparable. I agree with others who point to the scale of cronyism being on another level now. In the past fortnight we have seen the first ever case where a PM overrode the findings of the body supposed to vet appointments to the Lords in order to appoint a former Treasurer who the Court of Appeal found had corruptly solicited major donations to the Tory Party in return for access to ministers. The Deputy Speaker of the Lords, a Tory Peer, has called that the worst honours scandal in 100 years.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    kinabalu said:

    Damn, the SE of England really is a mess.

    Good job no-one lives there....
    London is crawling with virus. I am loath to venture anywhere that has other people in the equation until I have the protection.
    How can it be when movement has been heavily restricted in some form or other since November?

    Dickheads acting like dickheads.

    Indeed. Just like wasn;t Mao's fault 40 million Chinese starved to death between 1958 and 1962 under his government's policies.

    It was the speculators undermining his efforts.

    Like him, we should be sending these people to Kamps. Not Camps with a C but Kamps with a K.
  • kinabalu said:

    Damn, the SE of England really is a mess.

    Good job no-one lives there....
    London is crawling with virus. I am loath to venture anywhere that has other people in the equation until I have the protection.
    How can it be when movement has been heavily restricted in some form or other since November?

    Schools were open until mid-late Dec. Pretty obvious they were the main vector of transmission in our neighbourhood.
    Massive outbreaks now in the very small town closest to me. The high school was open until Dec 22nd. This isn't a coincidence.
    We all knew that schools were a major vector - every school around here went through repeated cycles of having to send home both pupil bubbles and their teachers. At one point a third of my daughter's school was off, and the school that MRs RP was a TA at was close to having to running out of teachers. Local big academy has just had a teacher die of it.

    So obviously, we kept the schools open because the government had declared them safe. Can't go back on that as otherwise people ask what has changed? How many people will we have killed by letting the schools go back for one day this week?
    It is particularly insane in rural areas - where I live, there are no large and very few medium employers, there is little to no commuting on public transport, there isn't even a supermarket.

    The only place where large numbers of households mix are the small hospital (which is operating outpatient procedures under very severe restrictions), and the high school (500 pupils).
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    Jonathan said:

    Someone on PB before the election had a right go at Biden campaigning in Georgia. Accused him of hubris.

    Chuckle.

    Chortle.

  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    A former Goldman Sachs banker will this week be installed by Boris Johnson as the next BBC chairman amid a deepening debate about the fate of the television licence fee and unprecedented competition from commercial rivals.

    Sky News has learnt that the government is preparing to announce the appointment of Richard Sharp as Sir David Clementi's successor as soon as Thursday.

    Mr Sharp, who during his long career at Goldman was once Rishi Sunak's boss, has spent much of the past year as an unpaid adviser to the chancellor on the economic response to the coronavirus pandemic...

    Mr Sharp was an adviser to the PM during the latter's time as mayor of London, and has historically been a donor to the Conservative Party, although one ally of the new BBC chair said he had given just £2,500 to it in the last decade.


    https://news.sky.com/story/ministers-to-unveil-former-goldman-banker-sharp-as-new-bbc-chair-12180454

    The Guardian are going to have fits....and again it looks like jobs for your mates.

    There's an incredibly casual, almost careless - in fact, almost proud - quality to the govrnment's cronyism. And again, it does have to be said that the current western government that most reminds of, is Trump's ; in a politer and subtler English version.
    They've given up on the subtlety now. It's blatant cronyism. They may as well tear up the Nolan Principles for Public Life and put them in the bin.
    Because of course Labour didn't use their patronage to stuff every public sector and quango post with their own placemen during their tenure? It's taken ten years of Conservative government to clear some of them out, and no doubt many still remain.
    Do you really think that the answer to cronyism and corruption is more of it?

    Perhaps you do. If so, it would explain a lot about the current Tory party.
    The problem is someone like Richard Sharp is well qualified to a non-executive chairman of a major organisation. He’s also served on the financial policy committee of the bank of England and was chairman of the royal academy.

    If you are going to exclude qualified people because they “once kissed a Tory” then you are going to end up with mediocre calibre people on average
  • Georgia betting: the two Dems are bouncing around 1.01 to 1.03 on Betfair. Maybe these will disappear as America hauls itself out of bed.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    I see we are back with the "Trump who got 2 of the 3 lowest Republican votes shares this millennium" is wildly popular line of thinking.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    Some sort of blowout by Joseph Biden Jr in the end wasn't it?

    306 EC
    House
    Senate.

    Mustn't grumble.
  • Cyclefree said:


    As would attacking the courts and judicial independence, which China is going to do next in HK.

    TBH I'm surprised that the original settlement has lasted as long as it has. But China under Xi Jinping is a whole new level of tyranny, not just in Hong Kong of course.

    Quite how the Chinese government thinks that it can retain Hong Kong's position as a major financial centre and trading hub whilst arbitrarily arresting people, including foreigners, is a complete mystery. They seem to be spectacularly dumb.
    I don't think they care frankly.

    Anecdotal but my best friend from university moved to Hong Kong and lived there for a decade. He moved back to the UK last year and I certainly don't think he has any intentions of returning.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,697
    Mike Pence is about to become trumpster non grata.

    https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1346808075626426371?s=21
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    Alistair said:

    I see we are back with the "Trump who got 2 of the 3 lowest Republican votes shares this millennium" is wildly popular line of thinking.

    Wow, another leftist promising conservatives they still have a chance if only they select a candidate the left approves of.

    I guess we can expect a great deal of this over the next two years.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126
    Alistair said:

    I see we are back with the "Trump who got 2 of the 3 lowest Republican votes shares this millennium" is wildly popular line of thinking.

    Hes wildly popular with some very noisy, passionate folk. How well he can hold onto them and direct them to influence the rest now hes out of power and may have cost them the Senate seems to be the uncertainty.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,217

    Some sort of blowout by Joseph Biden Jr in the end wasn't it?

    306 EC
    House
    Senate.

    Mustn't grumble.

    And 81m PV.

    Legend.
  • Trump was due to do something or other outstanding today, wasn't he? Or is he still waiting to see what Starmer did at 4pm last week?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421

    kinabalu said:

    Damn, the SE of England really is a mess.

    Good job no-one lives there....
    London is crawling with virus. I am loath to venture anywhere that has other people in the equation until I have the protection.
    How can it be when movement has been heavily restricted in some form or other since November?

    Dickheads acting like dickheads.

    Indeed. Just like wasn;t Mao's fault 40 million Chinese starved to death between 1958 and 1962 under his government's policies.

    It was the speculators undermining his efforts.

    Like him, we should be sending these people to Kamps. Not Camps with a C but Kamps with a K.
    Riiiiight...

    The speculators killed those sparrows, did they?

    Or were you trying to be ironic?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205

    Mike Pence is about to become trumpster non grata.

    https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1346808075626426371?s=21

    Yup I'm currently undercover in the MAGAverse....


  • GaussianGaussian Posts: 831

    kinabalu said:

    Damn, the SE of England really is a mess.

    Good job no-one lives there....
    London is crawling with virus. I am loath to venture anywhere that has other people in the equation until I have the protection.
    How can it be when movement has been heavily restricted in some form or other since November?

    Schools were open until mid-late Dec. Pretty obvious they were the main vector of transmission in our neighbourhood.
    Massive outbreaks now in the very small town closest to me. The high school was open until Dec 22nd. This isn't a coincidence.
    I agree that schools are a factor, but schools were open everywhere in Scotland. Yet only areas that dropped to level 1 or 2 a couple weeks before Christmas had their cases go up from very little to 500/week/100,000, shooting right past the level 3 areas such as the big cities. Which rather implicates venues other than schools.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675
    Charles said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    A former Goldman Sachs banker will this week be installed by Boris Johnson as the next BBC chairman amid a deepening debate about the fate of the television licence fee and unprecedented competition from commercial rivals.

    Sky News has learnt that the government is preparing to announce the appointment of Richard Sharp as Sir David Clementi's successor as soon as Thursday.

    Mr Sharp, who during his long career at Goldman was once Rishi Sunak's boss, has spent much of the past year as an unpaid adviser to the chancellor on the economic response to the coronavirus pandemic...

    Mr Sharp was an adviser to the PM during the latter's time as mayor of London, and has historically been a donor to the Conservative Party, although one ally of the new BBC chair said he had given just £2,500 to it in the last decade.


    https://news.sky.com/story/ministers-to-unveil-former-goldman-banker-sharp-as-new-bbc-chair-12180454

    The Guardian are going to have fits....and again it looks like jobs for your mates.

    There's an incredibly casual, almost careless - in fact, almost proud - quality to the govrnment's cronyism. And again, it does have to be said that the current western government that most reminds of, is Trump's ; in a politer and subtler English version.
    They've given up on the subtlety now. It's blatant cronyism. They may as well tear up the Nolan Principles for Public Life and put them in the bin.
    Because of course Labour didn't use their patronage to stuff every public sector and quango post with their own placemen during their tenure? It's taken ten years of Conservative government to clear some of them out, and no doubt many still remain.
    Do you really think that the answer to cronyism and corruption is more of it?

    Perhaps you do. If so, it would explain a lot about the current Tory party.
    The problem is someone like Richard Sharp is well qualified to a non-executive chairman of a major organisation. He’s also served on the financial policy committee of the bank of England and was chairman of the royal academy.

    If you are going to exclude qualified people because they “once kissed a Tory” then you are going to end up with mediocre calibre people on average
    He is Goldman Sachs Mr Entertainment. Queue the jazz hands. He’s a placeman who knows absolutely nothing about broadcasting.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    A former Goldman Sachs banker will this week be installed by Boris Johnson as the next BBC chairman amid a deepening debate about the fate of the television licence fee and unprecedented competition from commercial rivals.

    Sky News has learnt that the government is preparing to announce the appointment of Richard Sharp as Sir David Clementi's successor as soon as Thursday.

    Mr Sharp, who during his long career at Goldman was once Rishi Sunak's boss, has spent much of the past year as an unpaid adviser to the chancellor on the economic response to the coronavirus pandemic...

    Mr Sharp was an adviser to the PM during the latter's time as mayor of London, and has historically been a donor to the Conservative Party, although one ally of the new BBC chair said he had given just £2,500 to it in the last decade.


    https://news.sky.com/story/ministers-to-unveil-former-goldman-banker-sharp-as-new-bbc-chair-12180454

    The Guardian are going to have fits....and again it looks like jobs for your mates.

    There's an incredibly casual, almost careless - in fact, almost proud - quality to the govrnment's cronyism. And again, it does have to be said that the current western government that most reminds of, is Trump's ; in a politer and subtler English version.
    They've given up on the subtlety now. It's blatant cronyism. They may as well tear up the Nolan Principles for Public Life and put them in the bin.
    Because of course Labour didn't use their patronage to stuff every public sector and quango post with their own placemen during their tenure? It's taken ten years of Conservative government to clear some of them out, and no doubt many still remain.
    Do you really think that the answer to cronyism and corruption is more of it?

    Perhaps you do. If so, it would explain a lot about the current Tory party.
    It's not even about partisan cronyism. The really striking thing is the extent to which a pretty tiny clique, most of them either married to each other or previously employed by each other, take all the plum roles.

    And yes, it's happened before (Peter Jay, anyone?) but not to this extent.
    That’s exactly the issue. The establishment is too narrow and inwardly focused
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126

    Mike Pence is about to become trumpster non grata.

    https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1346808075626426371?s=21

    He makes it all sound so simple. Just throw out a whole bunch of certified votes on the feeling that the 'states' want him too. Sure, why not? That's the kind of power wed want one man to have.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126
    When is the livestream of the big event?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205

    Some sort of blowout by Joseph Biden Jr in the end wasn't it?

    306 EC
    House
    Senate.

    Mustn't grumble.

    No blowout, but he got exactly what he needed, precisely where he needed it. Most efficient.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,697

    Alistair said:

    I see we are back with the "Trump who got 2 of the 3 lowest Republican votes shares this millennium" is wildly popular line of thinking.

    Wow, another leftist promising conservatives they still have a chance if only they select a candidate the left approves of.

    I guess we can expect a great deal of this over the next two years.
    Almost all of us are looking at US politics as outsiders. Why are you so heavily invested in it?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,410
    kle4 said:

    Alistair said:

    I see we are back with the "Trump who got 2 of the 3 lowest Republican votes shares this millennium" is wildly popular line of thinking.

    Hes wildly popular with some very noisy, passionate folk. How well he can hold onto them and direct them to influence the rest now hes out of power and may have cost them the Senate seems to be the uncertainty.
    He's wildly popular with some.
    Wildly unpopular with considerably more.
    Hence the result.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126
    dixiedean said:

    kle4 said:

    Alistair said:

    I see we are back with the "Trump who got 2 of the 3 lowest Republican votes shares this millennium" is wildly popular line of thinking.

    Hes wildly popular with some very noisy, passionate folk. How well he can hold onto them and direct them to influence the rest now hes out of power and may have cost them the Senate seems to be the uncertainty.
    He's wildly popular with some.
    Wildly unpopular with considerably more.
    Hence the result.
    Never suggested otherwise. That's why emphasised they were noisy.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    Scott_xP said:
    Of course a major part of the issue with why trucks aren't able to cross borders is that (a) various foodstuffs need vet / sanitary declarations that can't be done as the people haven't been hired (b) paperwork can't go onto a computer system that doesn't exist and (c) customs agents both to help get the paperwork done and then inspect it for HMCE haven't been hired.
    Bank holiday in Spain today is it anywhere else?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,217
    dixiedean said:

    Desmond Swayne MP Is "seething".
    "We need an alternative strategy."
    What that might be he did not divulge.

    I think it involves a Tardis and a can of bat poison.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421

    Mike Pence is about to become trumpster non grata.

    https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1346808075626426371?s=21

    If they send back all the votes obtained by fraud, doesn't that mean Biden wins 306-0?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205
    kle4 said:

    Mike Pence is about to become trumpster non grata.

    https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1346808075626426371?s=21

    He makes it all sound so simple. Just throw out a whole bunch of certified votes on the feeling that the 'states' want him too. Sure, why not? That's the kind of power wed want one man to have.
    Everyone sat down between 1876 and 1887 and thought "Fuck, we don't want that nonsense again" (Hayes - Tilden) so the ECA was brought in.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    MaxPB said:

    There seems to be some confusion this morning if the elections are going ahead or not in May.

    Surely worth delaying them to July. No need to have a mass superspreading event just as we're tipping the balance in our favour. Two more months means 20m more people jabbed and 14m more people immunised.
    Just make them all-postal.

    Counting will have to take a bit longer, but we delayed a whole heap of elections from last spring. There's no need to delay again.
    Would 100% postal voting favour anybody in particular in Scotland?
    Perhaps SCons and LDs delivering postal forms and generously offering themselves as return addresses gives a hint?
    I hope there's not going to be any Big Steal type stuff going on! If Nicola goes Trumpy I'll give up.

    But seriously, how do you mean? They deliver a ballot and ask the voter to send it to THEM instead of to the count centre?
    Labour and the SNP have been doing the same for years - except they wait politely in the hall while the voter fills in the firm and then take it back personally.

    I’m assuming that the Tories and Lib Dem’s would do the same if they had the manpower
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126
    Pulpstar said:

    Some sort of blowout by Joseph Biden Jr in the end wasn't it?

    306 EC
    House
    Senate.

    Mustn't grumble.

    No blowout, but he got exactly what he needed, precisely where he needed it. Most efficient.
    Suspiciously convenient...Trump might say. Stop the Steal!!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,221
    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    I've always liked Lord Patten, I wonder if he might have become Tory leader in 1997 (or earlier) if he hadn't have lost his seat.

    https://twitter.com/patrickwintour/status/1346758784602005504

    He's one of my heroes. Man of immense courage.

    Needless to say we don't see eye-to-eye on Europe. I suspect that would have let him down, as it did for Ken Clarke.
    Yep I agree with this. I think he was utterly wrong on Europe and I think that would have killed any chance he had of being PM even had he kept his seat. But he has been right on many other things not least his calls for us to welcome Hong Kong residents we abandoned after the handover in 1999. This is a great wrong I hope we are now righting.
    Agreed. What was different about him is that he had little time for the pomposity of Heseltine and Heath either, and was clearly patriotic - believing Britain's interests could best be asserted via the EU.

    I didn't agree with him on that, but I respect anyone (of whatever view) who has moral and political courage.

    He had it. In spades.
    And quite a good sense of humour.
    His time at the BBC wasn't great, though.
    Gifted. But did seem to look down on those who did not appreciate those gifts as much as he did.
    He, and many of his contemporaries are still head and shoulders above anyone in the present cabinet, though.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,858
    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    OllyT said:

    OllyT said:

    So does the GOP fall into civil war or does it reorganise and retake the House in 2022 ?

    The GOP have got themselves into a dire position. Many of them know that the Trump core are batshit crazy / QAnon types but there are too many of them to ignore so they keep quiet because they are scared of them.

    I don't see an easy path for any moderately sane Republican to win a GOP Primary. That's why we still have 10 GOP Senators about to humiliate themselves by still pretending Trump won the election.
    IDK, parties nearly always pick a moderate against an incumbent, not least because if the governing side isn't contested then politics enthusiasts vote in the opposition race, especially where there are open primaries. It's not clear that Trump will be willing and able to run, and if he's not then it's not clear that anybody similar can pull off what he did.
    In some cases you may be correct but I believe the GOP will be dancing to Trump's tune for the next 4 years.

    Trump is a malign, vindictive and bullying individual who will take great pleasure in trying to destroy any Republican who has displeased him. The right really have taken the US into a very dark place and now the genii is out of the bottle it's not going to be easy to put it back.
    I totally share your opinion on the damage done but I do not think Trump & Clan will be the ongoing political force that many fear (or hope if they're on the dark side). Soon he will out of the White House. He'll be an impeached and disgraced one term ex-president with big legal and money troubles who managed the remarkable negative feat of failing to win a 2nd term after just 4 years of his party in power and while he's at it losing both houses of Congress to the hated other.

    From 20 Jan his world will shrink beyond recognition. The difference between being the American president and not being the American president is almost as stark as that between being dead or alive. He'll lose all the trappings of that great office - the most important of which was to have his bullshit piped into people's heads 24/7. Supporters will drift away, not to be replaced by new ones. It will be one way traffic. Drip drip drip until what's left is something not to be taken seriously. He might even realize this himself before too long and concentrate just on cashflow and staying out of jail. Perhaps a deal? Not sure on that one. We'll see.

    But Donald Trump the fearsome politician is over. No doubt there will be other grisly characters (the lizard Ted Cruz?) who will battle to own the MAGA space in the GOP, and one will prevail and be a live contender for the 24 nomination, but that person will not be called Trump and they won't be able to recreate what he did in 15/16 because that stunning achievement owed so much to his personal brand and persona. So they won't win the nomination. The Republican Party might look beyond the pale now but my money is on them detoxifying. Looking forward to the opening of the WH24 betting.
    I think even if Trump and Trump Jnr do not run in 2024 one of Pence or Cruz will be the GOP nominee, the GOP base are not going to pick an establishment and moderate 'RINO' as their nominee anytime soon
    I'll be looking to lay all the MAGA types if that's the consensus view. I especially hope Trump himself and/or his offspring gets quoted at a layable price. But just to clarify, when I say the GOP will detoxify I don't mean they'll go back to a traditional Romney type necessarily. I can see the obstacles to that. What I mean is, they will junk softhead right populism of the Trump variety. They need a new offering and I'm expecting they will come up with one. The Dems will go with New American Dream, which will be powerful. MAGA has no chance against that.
    What they need is a Newt Gingrich style contract with America. Ryan could do something similar if he came back. Clear, coherent economic policies without the madness and idiocy of Trump and his fellow loons.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    ydoethur said:

    kinabalu said:

    Damn, the SE of England really is a mess.

    Good job no-one lives there....
    London is crawling with virus. I am loath to venture anywhere that has other people in the equation until I have the protection.
    How can it be when movement has been heavily restricted in some form or other since November?

    Dickheads acting like dickheads.

    Indeed. Just like wasn;t Mao's fault 40 million Chinese starved to death between 1958 and 1962 under his government's policies.

    It was the speculators undermining his efforts.

    Like him, we should be sending these people to Kamps. Not Camps with a C but Kamps with a K.
    Riiiiight...

    The speculators killed those sparrows, did they?

    Or were you trying to be ironic?
    I was merely trying to point out what happens when you make the assumption the state's policy cannot be wrong.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    Alistair said:

    I see we are back with the "Trump who got 2 of the 3 lowest Republican votes shares this millennium" is wildly popular line of thinking.

    Wow, another leftist promising conservatives they still have a chance if only they select a candidate the left approves of.

    I guess we can expect a great deal of this over the next two years.
    Tories do that all the time, all they are doing is trying to ensure that if labour do win they won’t have their fortunes ‘stolen’ they would never vote for them though.
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,780

    kinabalu said:

    Damn, the SE of England really is a mess.

    Good job no-one lives there....
    London is crawling with virus. I am loath to venture anywhere that has other people in the equation until I have the protection.
    How can it be when movement has been heavily restricted in some form or other since November?

    Schools were open until mid-late Dec. Pretty obvious they were the main vector of transmission in our neighbourhood.
    Massive outbreaks now in the very small town closest to me. The high school was open until Dec 22nd. This isn't a coincidence.
    We all knew that schools were a major vector - every school around here went through repeated cycles of having to send home both pupil bubbles and their teachers. At one point a third of my daughter's school was off, and the school that MRs RP was a TA at was close to having to running out of teachers. Local big academy has just had a teacher die of it.

    So obviously, we kept the schools open because the government had declared them safe. Can't go back on that as otherwise people ask what has changed? How many people will we have killed by letting the schools go back for one day this week?
    Children in school are quite predictable with whom they mix with. They hang out mainly with the same small friendship groups, and sit next to the same children in classes by choice or otherwise by seating plans. A child with Covid will come into close contact with lots of their friends in one day, and not that many more in the course of a week. So he/she may "only" have gone back for one day, but that was still disproportionately significant.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited January 2021

    Alistair said:

    I see we are back with the "Trump who got 2 of the 3 lowest Republican votes shares this millennium" is wildly popular line of thinking.

    Wow, another leftist promising conservatives they still have a chance if only they select a candidate the left approves of.

    I guess we can expect a great deal of this over the next two years.
    Well I'm a right winger who thinks Ronald Reagan was America's best postwar POTUS but I find Trump revolting and am glad the Democrats won.

    Maybe right wingers finding Trump repellant should be taken seriously? Just an idea.
  • kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    MaxPB said:

    There seems to be some confusion this morning if the elections are going ahead or not in May.

    Surely worth delaying them to July. No need to have a mass superspreading event just as we're tipping the balance in our favour. Two more months means 20m more people jabbed and 14m more people immunised.
    Just make them all-postal.

    Counting will have to take a bit longer, but we delayed a whole heap of elections from last spring. There's no need to delay again.
    Would 100% postal voting favour anybody in particular in Scotland?
    Perhaps SCons and LDs delivering postal forms and generously offering themselves as return addresses gives a hint?
    I hope there's not going to be any Big Steal type stuff going on! If Nicola goes Trumpy I'll give up.

    But seriously, how do you mean? They deliver a ballot and ask the voter to send it to THEM instead of to the count centre?
    I don't think this lot will be actually steaming envelopes open and getting the Tippex out. Well, probably not.

    I'm guessing like all not-completely-crap parties that they'll have data on their voters (who may be postal vote friendly anyway) and want to target them early. Getting the envelopes through their offices would give them a very rough idea of how they're doing. I think the practice is frowned upon rather than illegal, but it doesn't seem to have occurred to them that not everyone that they've posted to will be their fans and have access to social media.

    As we see in the US, postal/early voting is now a big thing, and a vital if occasionally misleading data source for early projections.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    edited January 2021
    DavidL said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    OllyT said:

    OllyT said:

    So does the GOP fall into civil war or does it reorganise and retake the House in 2022 ?

    The GOP have got themselves into a dire position. Many of them know that the Trump core are batshit crazy / QAnon types but there are too many of them to ignore so they keep quiet because they are scared of them.

    I don't see an easy path for any moderately sane Republican to win a GOP Primary. That's why we still have 10 GOP Senators about to humiliate themselves by still pretending Trump won the election.
    IDK, parties nearly always pick a moderate against an incumbent, not least because if the governing side isn't contested then politics enthusiasts vote in the opposition race, especially where there are open primaries. It's not clear that Trump will be willing and able to run, and if he's not then it's not clear that anybody similar can pull off what he did.
    In some cases you may be correct but I believe the GOP will be dancing to Trump's tune for the next 4 years.

    Trump is a malign, vindictive and bullying individual who will take great pleasure in trying to destroy any Republican who has displeased him. The right really have taken the US into a very dark place and now the genii is out of the bottle it's not going to be easy to put it back.
    I totally share your opinion on the damage done but I do not think Trump & Clan will be the ongoing political force that many fear (or hope if they're on the dark side). Soon he will out of the White House. He'll be an impeached and disgraced one term ex-president with big legal and money troubles who managed the remarkable negative feat of failing to win a 2nd term after just 4 years of his party in power and while he's at it losing both houses of Congress to the hated other.

    From 20 Jan his world will shrink beyond recognition. The difference between being the American president and not being the American president is almost as stark as that between being dead or alive. He'll lose all the trappings of that great office - the most important of which was to have his bullshit piped into people's heads 24/7. Supporters will drift away, not to be replaced by new ones. It will be one way traffic. Drip drip drip until what's left is something not to be taken seriously. He might even realize this himself before too long and concentrate just on cashflow and staying out of jail. Perhaps a deal? Not sure on that one. We'll see.

    But Donald Trump the fearsome politician is over. No doubt there will be other grisly characters (the lizard Ted Cruz?) who will battle to own the MAGA space in the GOP, and one will prevail and be a live contender for the 24 nomination, but that person will not be called Trump and they won't be able to recreate what he did in 15/16 because that stunning achievement owed so much to his personal brand and persona. So they won't win the nomination. The Republican Party might look beyond the pale now but my money is on them detoxifying. Looking forward to the opening of the WH24 betting.
    I think even if Trump and Trump Jnr do not run in 2024 one of Pence or Cruz will be the GOP nominee, the GOP base are not going to pick an establishment and moderate 'RINO' as their nominee anytime soon
    I'll be looking to lay all the MAGA types if that's the consensus view. I especially hope Trump himself and/or his offspring gets quoted at a layable price. But just to clarify, when I say the GOP will detoxify I don't mean they'll go back to a traditional Romney type necessarily. I can see the obstacles to that. What I mean is, they will junk softhead right populism of the Trump variety. They need a new offering and I'm expecting they will come up with one. The Dems will go with New American Dream, which will be powerful. MAGA has no chance against that.
    What they need is a Newt Gingrich style contract with America. Ryan could do something similar if he came back. Clear, coherent economic policies without the madness and idiocy of Trump and his fellow loons.
    The republicans tried this twice with McCain and Romney. They got their backsides handed to them. Which is just where the dems want them to be. Plucky losers. Never getting power really, but vindicating the American system with their very presence. In case the investment horses and democratic allies get frightened.

    So America can still lecture the third world on their elections even though its own election was a shower of sh8t that lasted weeks.

  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,217

    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Yep. This is what I am opining will happen. He is net toxic to the GOP brand and so they need to have this battle and win it. Which they will (both) because the Republican party is bigger than any one man - they're not called the GOP for nothing - and they exist to win power not to service the ego of individuals.

    Time to dig up the old strapline. Trump is Toast. Again.
    I always find it funny when the left give conservatives advice.
    Fair point. Which I have to say since I was making it myself in reverse the other day. But I am very objective for my ilk and the "advice" is sound. New American Dream v MAGA would be no contest in a polarized binary in 24. So the GOP will need to come up with something else. And I think they will.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,052
    Jonathan said:

    Charles said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    A former Goldman Sachs banker will this week be installed by Boris Johnson as the next BBC chairman amid a deepening debate about the fate of the television licence fee and unprecedented competition from commercial rivals.

    Sky News has learnt that the government is preparing to announce the appointment of Richard Sharp as Sir David Clementi's successor as soon as Thursday.

    Mr Sharp, who during his long career at Goldman was once Rishi Sunak's boss, has spent much of the past year as an unpaid adviser to the chancellor on the economic response to the coronavirus pandemic...

    Mr Sharp was an adviser to the PM during the latter's time as mayor of London, and has historically been a donor to the Conservative Party, although one ally of the new BBC chair said he had given just £2,500 to it in the last decade.


    https://news.sky.com/story/ministers-to-unveil-former-goldman-banker-sharp-as-new-bbc-chair-12180454

    The Guardian are going to have fits....and again it looks like jobs for your mates.

    There's an incredibly casual, almost careless - in fact, almost proud - quality to the govrnment's cronyism. And again, it does have to be said that the current western government that most reminds of, is Trump's ; in a politer and subtler English version.
    They've given up on the subtlety now. It's blatant cronyism. They may as well tear up the Nolan Principles for Public Life and put them in the bin.
    Because of course Labour didn't use their patronage to stuff every public sector and quango post with their own placemen during their tenure? It's taken ten years of Conservative government to clear some of them out, and no doubt many still remain.
    Do you really think that the answer to cronyism and corruption is more of it?

    Perhaps you do. If so, it would explain a lot about the current Tory party.
    The problem is someone like Richard Sharp is well qualified to a non-executive chairman of a major organisation. He’s also served on the financial policy committee of the bank of England and was chairman of the royal academy.

    If you are going to exclude qualified people because they “once kissed a Tory” then you are going to end up with mediocre calibre people on average
    He is Goldman Sachs Mr Entertainment. Queue the jazz hands. He’s a placeman who knows absolutely nothing about broadcasting.
    There will always be patronage and cronyism in public sector appointments.

    The answer is to make the public sector as small as is necessary to keep society running.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,599

    Cyclefree said:


    As would attacking the courts and judicial independence, which China is going to do next in HK.

    TBH I'm surprised that the original settlement has lasted as long as it has. But China under Xi Jinping is a whole new level of tyranny, not just in Hong Kong of course.

    Quite how the Chinese government thinks that it can retain Hong Kong's position as a major financial centre and trading hub whilst arbitrarily arresting people, including foreigners, is a complete mystery. They seem to be spectacularly dumb.
    I don't think they care frankly.

    Anecdotal but my best friend from university moved to Hong Kong and lived there for a decade. He moved back to the UK last year and I certainly don't think he has any intentions of returning.
    Glad I got to spend some time there a few years ago. A great city and lovely people, but sadly looking now like it’s being subsumed into mainland China.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:


    As would attacking the courts and judicial independence, which China is going to do next in HK.

    TBH I'm surprised that the original settlement has lasted as long as it has. But China under Xi Jinping is a whole new level of tyranny, not just in Hong Kong of course.

    Quite how the Chinese government thinks that it can retain Hong Kong's position as a major financial centre and trading hub whilst arbitrarily arresting people, including foreigners, is a complete mystery. They seem to be spectacularly dumb.
    They don't care. They think they are now so strong, people will do business with them anyway. And they reckon lots of business that leaves Hong Kong will move to Shanghai, to please the government. And they are probably right.

    Remember, Beijing doesn't LIKE Hong Kong or Hong Kongers

    Long term, Shanghai and Singapore will dominate Asian finance etc. HK has a future of sad slow decline.
    Lots of foreign investors are very, very wary of investing money via Shanghai or on the mainland. HK serves (served?) as a well governed gateway to investing in China for a lot of non-Chinese funds where the courts were respected and rule of law upheld, almost a carbon copy of the City in Asia. That money isn't going to go to Shanghai, it will most likely not go to China at all which means other Asian countries will benefit from more FDI via paper written in Singapore and London.
    Sure. But in the end the sheer size of China will predominate, and many banks and much fintech and the rest will have to locate partly in China. There will be tacit pressure to go to Shanghai, to keep Beijing happy. Ongoing turmoil in HK will further push people to the "mainland".

    China is a threat to everyone. Finally, a malignant superpower too big to fight and too rich to ignore. Bleak.
    You say that but investors are looking at what's happening to Ant at the moment and taking fright. Whatever pressure there is to go to Shanghai will mean nothing to investors who want to park their money somewhere they know it won't be expropriated or into companies they know won't be taken apart by the CCP for being insufficiently loyal.

    China is at a crossroads itself, at the moment investors are happy to use the HK gateway to invest in mainland companies. China benefits from the foreign cash and its companies gain legitimacy in the process. Now without that gateway China effectively blocks its own markets off for international investors. Maybe it sees this as a good thing because international investors have higher governance demands which Chinese companies don't want to deal with. I see this as China putting up its own wall, the stupidity is in the EU bringing down the wall exactly as China puts one up and in return for vague promises from the CCP to close forced/slave labour camps which we know they will never adhere to.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Jonathan said:

    Charles said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    A former Goldman Sachs banker will this week be installed by Boris Johnson as the next BBC chairman amid a deepening debate about the fate of the television licence fee and unprecedented competition from commercial rivals.

    Sky News has learnt that the government is preparing to announce the appointment of Richard Sharp as Sir David Clementi's successor as soon as Thursday.

    Mr Sharp, who during his long career at Goldman was once Rishi Sunak's boss, has spent much of the past year as an unpaid adviser to the chancellor on the economic response to the coronavirus pandemic...

    Mr Sharp was an adviser to the PM during the latter's time as mayor of London, and has historically been a donor to the Conservative Party, although one ally of the new BBC chair said he had given just £2,500 to it in the last decade.


    https://news.sky.com/story/ministers-to-unveil-former-goldman-banker-sharp-as-new-bbc-chair-12180454

    The Guardian are going to have fits....and again it looks like jobs for your mates.

    There's an incredibly casual, almost careless - in fact, almost proud - quality to the govrnment's cronyism. And again, it does have to be said that the current western government that most reminds of, is Trump's ; in a politer and subtler English version.
    They've given up on the subtlety now. It's blatant cronyism. They may as well tear up the Nolan Principles for Public Life and put them in the bin.
    Because of course Labour didn't use their patronage to stuff every public sector and quango post with their own placemen during their tenure? It's taken ten years of Conservative government to clear some of them out, and no doubt many still remain.
    Do you really think that the answer to cronyism and corruption is more of it?

    Perhaps you do. If so, it would explain a lot about the current Tory party.
    The problem is someone like Richard Sharp is well qualified to a non-executive chairman of a major organisation. He’s also served on the financial policy committee of the bank of England and was chairman of the royal academy.

    If you are going to exclude qualified people because they “once kissed a Tory” then you are going to end up with mediocre calibre people on average
    He is Goldman Sachs Mr Entertainment. Queue the jazz hands. He’s a placeman who knows absolutely nothing about broadcasting.
    A chairman’s job is not to second guess the executives
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,128
    Sandpit said:

    Cyclefree said:


    As would attacking the courts and judicial independence, which China is going to do next in HK.

    TBH I'm surprised that the original settlement has lasted as long as it has. But China under Xi Jinping is a whole new level of tyranny, not just in Hong Kong of course.

    Quite how the Chinese government thinks that it can retain Hong Kong's position as a major financial centre and trading hub whilst arbitrarily arresting people, including foreigners, is a complete mystery. They seem to be spectacularly dumb.
    I don't think they care frankly.

    Anecdotal but my best friend from university moved to Hong Kong and lived there for a decade. He moved back to the UK last year and I certainly don't think he has any intentions of returning.
    Glad I got to spend some time there a few years ago. A great city and lovely people, but sadly looking now like it’s being subsumed into mainland China.
    Yes, looks like President Xi does not do devolution unless with absolute devotion to the motherland
  • eekeek Posts: 28,398

    kinabalu said:

    Damn, the SE of England really is a mess.

    Good job no-one lives there....
    London is crawling with virus. I am loath to venture anywhere that has other people in the equation until I have the protection.
    How can it be when movement has been heavily restricted in some form or other since November?

    Schools were open until mid-late Dec. Pretty obvious they were the main vector of transmission in our neighbourhood.
    Massive outbreaks now in the very small town closest to me. The high school was open until Dec 22nd. This isn't a coincidence.
    We all knew that schools were a major vector - every school around here went through repeated cycles of having to send home both pupil bubbles and their teachers. At one point a third of my daughter's school was off, and the school that MRs RP was a TA at was close to having to running out of teachers. Local big academy has just had a teacher die of it.

    So obviously, we kept the schools open because the government had declared them safe. Can't go back on that as otherwise people ask what has changed? How many people will we have killed by letting the schools go back for one day this week?
    Children in school are quite predictable with whom they mix with. They hang out mainly with the same small friendship groups, and sit next to the same children in classes by choice or otherwise by seating plans. A child with Covid will come into close contact with lots of their friends in one day, and not that many more in the course of a week. So he/she may "only" have gone back for one day, but that was still disproportionately significant.
    Only up to year 9. Years 10 and 11 will differ because of subject selection...
  • Fishing said:

    Jonathan said:

    Charles said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    A former Goldman Sachs banker will this week be installed by Boris Johnson as the next BBC chairman amid a deepening debate about the fate of the television licence fee and unprecedented competition from commercial rivals.

    Sky News has learnt that the government is preparing to announce the appointment of Richard Sharp as Sir David Clementi's successor as soon as Thursday.

    Mr Sharp, who during his long career at Goldman was once Rishi Sunak's boss, has spent much of the past year as an unpaid adviser to the chancellor on the economic response to the coronavirus pandemic...

    Mr Sharp was an adviser to the PM during the latter's time as mayor of London, and has historically been a donor to the Conservative Party, although one ally of the new BBC chair said he had given just £2,500 to it in the last decade.


    https://news.sky.com/story/ministers-to-unveil-former-goldman-banker-sharp-as-new-bbc-chair-12180454

    The Guardian are going to have fits....and again it looks like jobs for your mates.

    There's an incredibly casual, almost careless - in fact, almost proud - quality to the govrnment's cronyism. And again, it does have to be said that the current western government that most reminds of, is Trump's ; in a politer and subtler English version.
    They've given up on the subtlety now. It's blatant cronyism. They may as well tear up the Nolan Principles for Public Life and put them in the bin.
    Because of course Labour didn't use their patronage to stuff every public sector and quango post with their own placemen during their tenure? It's taken ten years of Conservative government to clear some of them out, and no doubt many still remain.
    Do you really think that the answer to cronyism and corruption is more of it?

    Perhaps you do. If so, it would explain a lot about the current Tory party.
    The problem is someone like Richard Sharp is well qualified to a non-executive chairman of a major organisation. He’s also served on the financial policy committee of the bank of England and was chairman of the royal academy.

    If you are going to exclude qualified people because they “once kissed a Tory” then you are going to end up with mediocre calibre people on average
    He is Goldman Sachs Mr Entertainment. Queue the jazz hands. He’s a placeman who knows absolutely nothing about broadcasting.
    There will always be patronage and cronyism in public sector appointments.

    The answer is to make the public sector as small as is necessary to keep society running.
    And just let the patronage and cronyism free private sector do its thing?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,361
    Pulpstar said:

    Some sort of blowout by Joseph Biden Jr in the end wasn't it?

    306 EC
    House
    Senate.

    Mustn't grumble.

    No blowout, but he got exactly what he needed, precisely where he needed it. Most efficient.
    Which shows one of the advantages of Biden as a candidate vs Hillary. She tore up large chucks of the party machine to make it loyal to her personally. Biden built a coalition. It's what he does.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675
    Charles said:

    Jonathan said:

    Charles said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    A former Goldman Sachs banker will this week be installed by Boris Johnson as the next BBC chairman amid a deepening debate about the fate of the television licence fee and unprecedented competition from commercial rivals.

    Sky News has learnt that the government is preparing to announce the appointment of Richard Sharp as Sir David Clementi's successor as soon as Thursday.

    Mr Sharp, who during his long career at Goldman was once Rishi Sunak's boss, has spent much of the past year as an unpaid adviser to the chancellor on the economic response to the coronavirus pandemic...

    Mr Sharp was an adviser to the PM during the latter's time as mayor of London, and has historically been a donor to the Conservative Party, although one ally of the new BBC chair said he had given just £2,500 to it in the last decade.


    https://news.sky.com/story/ministers-to-unveil-former-goldman-banker-sharp-as-new-bbc-chair-12180454

    The Guardian are going to have fits....and again it looks like jobs for your mates.

    There's an incredibly casual, almost careless - in fact, almost proud - quality to the govrnment's cronyism. And again, it does have to be said that the current western government that most reminds of, is Trump's ; in a politer and subtler English version.
    They've given up on the subtlety now. It's blatant cronyism. They may as well tear up the Nolan Principles for Public Life and put them in the bin.
    Because of course Labour didn't use their patronage to stuff every public sector and quango post with their own placemen during their tenure? It's taken ten years of Conservative government to clear some of them out, and no doubt many still remain.
    Do you really think that the answer to cronyism and corruption is more of it?

    Perhaps you do. If so, it would explain a lot about the current Tory party.
    The problem is someone like Richard Sharp is well qualified to a non-executive chairman of a major organisation. He’s also served on the financial policy committee of the bank of England and was chairman of the royal academy.

    If you are going to exclude qualified people because they “once kissed a Tory” then you are going to end up with mediocre calibre people on average
    He is Goldman Sachs Mr Entertainment. Queue the jazz hands. He’s a placeman who knows absolutely nothing about broadcasting.
    A chairman’s job is not to second guess the executives
    Some knowledge and experience would be useful. This guy has less to offer than Gary from down the coop.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,128
    Alistair said:

    I see we are back with the "Trump who got 2 of the 3 lowest Republican votes shares this millennium" is wildly popular line of thinking.

    Trump did however get the highest number of EC votes for a GOP candidate since Reagan Bush in 2016 and the highest number of EC votes for a GOP candidate since George W Bush even in 2020.

    I doubt Cruz or Pence, one of whom who will likely be the 2024 GOP nominee if Trump does not run again, would have done any better and would probably do worse
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,804
    edited January 2021
    For those on here who think we should just let the young get on with it and not ruin their lives and us oldies who should just suck it up:

    I attended my Uncles funeral on 16 December. Also there was my cousin, his wife, his daughter, her boyfriend, and his wife's parents.

    The boyfriend caught Covid. Of that list, one is dead, one is fighting for her life in hospital and it is not looking good and one was seriously ill, but now recovering. My cousin escaped getting it and the daughter and boyfriend recovered fine.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,361
    Charles said:

    Jonathan said:

    Charles said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    A former Goldman Sachs banker will this week be installed by Boris Johnson as the next BBC chairman amid a deepening debate about the fate of the television licence fee and unprecedented competition from commercial rivals.

    Sky News has learnt that the government is preparing to announce the appointment of Richard Sharp as Sir David Clementi's successor as soon as Thursday.

    Mr Sharp, who during his long career at Goldman was once Rishi Sunak's boss, has spent much of the past year as an unpaid adviser to the chancellor on the economic response to the coronavirus pandemic...

    Mr Sharp was an adviser to the PM during the latter's time as mayor of London, and has historically been a donor to the Conservative Party, although one ally of the new BBC chair said he had given just £2,500 to it in the last decade.


    https://news.sky.com/story/ministers-to-unveil-former-goldman-banker-sharp-as-new-bbc-chair-12180454

    The Guardian are going to have fits....and again it looks like jobs for your mates.

    There's an incredibly casual, almost careless - in fact, almost proud - quality to the govrnment's cronyism. And again, it does have to be said that the current western government that most reminds of, is Trump's ; in a politer and subtler English version.
    They've given up on the subtlety now. It's blatant cronyism. They may as well tear up the Nolan Principles for Public Life and put them in the bin.
    Because of course Labour didn't use their patronage to stuff every public sector and quango post with their own placemen during their tenure? It's taken ten years of Conservative government to clear some of them out, and no doubt many still remain.
    Do you really think that the answer to cronyism and corruption is more of it?

    Perhaps you do. If so, it would explain a lot about the current Tory party.
    The problem is someone like Richard Sharp is well qualified to a non-executive chairman of a major organisation. He’s also served on the financial policy committee of the bank of England and was chairman of the royal academy.

    If you are going to exclude qualified people because they “once kissed a Tory” then you are going to end up with mediocre calibre people on average
    He is Goldman Sachs Mr Entertainment. Queue the jazz hands. He’s a placeman who knows absolutely nothing about broadcasting.
    A chairman’s job is not to second guess the executives
    Dan Goldin at NASA is the classic example of the expert put in charge. As was Charlie Bolden. Between them, they put NASA back decades.....
  • Jonathan said:

    Charles said:

    Jonathan said:

    Charles said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    A former Goldman Sachs banker will this week be installed by Boris Johnson as the next BBC chairman amid a deepening debate about the fate of the television licence fee and unprecedented competition from commercial rivals.

    Sky News has learnt that the government is preparing to announce the appointment of Richard Sharp as Sir David Clementi's successor as soon as Thursday.

    Mr Sharp, who during his long career at Goldman was once Rishi Sunak's boss, has spent much of the past year as an unpaid adviser to the chancellor on the economic response to the coronavirus pandemic...

    Mr Sharp was an adviser to the PM during the latter's time as mayor of London, and has historically been a donor to the Conservative Party, although one ally of the new BBC chair said he had given just £2,500 to it in the last decade.


    https://news.sky.com/story/ministers-to-unveil-former-goldman-banker-sharp-as-new-bbc-chair-12180454

    The Guardian are going to have fits....and again it looks like jobs for your mates.

    There's an incredibly casual, almost careless - in fact, almost proud - quality to the govrnment's cronyism. And again, it does have to be said that the current western government that most reminds of, is Trump's ; in a politer and subtler English version.
    They've given up on the subtlety now. It's blatant cronyism. They may as well tear up the Nolan Principles for Public Life and put them in the bin.
    Because of course Labour didn't use their patronage to stuff every public sector and quango post with their own placemen during their tenure? It's taken ten years of Conservative government to clear some of them out, and no doubt many still remain.
    Do you really think that the answer to cronyism and corruption is more of it?

    Perhaps you do. If so, it would explain a lot about the current Tory party.
    The problem is someone like Richard Sharp is well qualified to a non-executive chairman of a major organisation. He’s also served on the financial policy committee of the bank of England and was chairman of the royal academy.

    If you are going to exclude qualified people because they “once kissed a Tory” then you are going to end up with mediocre calibre people on average
    He is Goldman Sachs Mr Entertainment. Queue the jazz hands. He’s a placeman who knows absolutely nothing about broadcasting.
    A chairman’s job is not to second guess the executives
    Some knowledge and experience would be useful. This guy has less to offer than Gary from down the coop.
    Sounds like he has knowledge and experience of being chairman of a large organisation.

    The skills of doing that are transferable across sectors.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,128
    FFUHD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    OllyT said:

    OllyT said:

    So does the GOP fall into civil war or does it reorganise and retake the House in 2022 ?

    The GOP have got themselves into a dire position. Many of them know that the Trump core are batshit crazy / QAnon types but there are too many of them to ignore so they keep quiet because they are scared of them.

    I don't see an easy path for any moderately sane Republican to win a GOP Primary. That's why we still have 10 GOP Senators about to humiliate themselves by still pretending Trump won the election.
    IDK, parties nearly always pick a moderate against an incumbent, not least because if the governing side isn't contested then politics enthusiasts vote in the opposition race, especially where there are open primaries. It's not clear that Trump will be willing and able to run, and if he's not then it's not clear that anybody similar can pull off what he did.
    In some cases you may be correct but I believe the GOP will be dancing to Trump's tune for the next 4 years.

    Trump is a malign, vindictive and bullying individual who will take great pleasure in trying to destroy any Republican who has displeased him. The right really have taken the US into a very dark place and now the genii is out of the bottle it's not going to be easy to put it back.
    I totally share your opinion on the damage done but I do not think Trump & Clan will be the ongoing political force that many fear (or hope if they're on the dark side). Soon he will out of the White House. He'll be an impeached and disgraced one term ex-president with big legal and money troubles who managed the remarkable negative feat of failing to win a 2nd term after just 4 years of his party in power and while he's at it losing both houses of Congress to the hated other.

    From 20 Jan his world will shrink beyond recognition. The difference between being the American president and not being the American president is almost as stark as that between being dead or alive. He'll lose all the trappings of that great office - the most important of which was to have his bullshit piped into people's heads 24/7. Supporters will drift away, not to be replaced by new ones. It will be one way traffic. Drip drip drip until what's left is something not to be taken seriously. He might even realize this himself before too long and concentrate just on cashflow and staying out of jail. Perhaps a deal? Not sure on that one. We'll see.

    But Donald Trump the fearsome politician is over. No doubt there will be other grisly characters (the lizard Ted Cruz?) who will battle to own the MAGA space in the GOP, and one will prevail and be a live contender for the 24 nomination, but that person will not be called Trump and they won't be able to recreate what he did in 15/16 because that stunning achievement owed so much to his personal brand and persona. So they won't win the nomination. The Republican Party might look beyond the pale now but my money is on them detoxifying. Looking forward to the opening of the WH24 betting.
    I think even if Trump and Trump Jnr do not run in 2024 one of Pence or Cruz will be the GOP nominee, the GOP base are not going to pick an establishment and moderate 'RINO' as their nominee anytime soon
    Trump is a cult.* His support will wane now but it won't readily transfer anywhere and certainly not to traditional Republicans. The GoP has a massive problem, very much of its own creation. It will do well to avoid a long period in the wilderness.

    * For the avoidance of doubt this is not a typo.
    It should be noted that the last time a party lost the White House after only 1 term, when Carter lost in 1980, it took the Democrats 12 years until Bill Clinton in 1992 before they won the White House again.

    Which is not encouraging for the GOP, at least at the Presidential level
    It should be noted that the last time I flipped 3 tails in a row on a Wednesday when the President-elect's surname began with B, it was followed by a run of two heads and a tail.

    Portentous.
    I may sue for passing off as me
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,599
    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:


    As would attacking the courts and judicial independence, which China is going to do next in HK.

    TBH I'm surprised that the original settlement has lasted as long as it has. But China under Xi Jinping is a whole new level of tyranny, not just in Hong Kong of course.

    Quite how the Chinese government thinks that it can retain Hong Kong's position as a major financial centre and trading hub whilst arbitrarily arresting people, including foreigners, is a complete mystery. They seem to be spectacularly dumb.
    They don't care. They think they are now so strong, people will do business with them anyway. And they reckon lots of business that leaves Hong Kong will move to Shanghai, to please the government. And they are probably right.

    Remember, Beijing doesn't LIKE Hong Kong or Hong Kongers

    Long term, Shanghai and Singapore will dominate Asian finance etc. HK has a future of sad slow decline.
    Lots of foreign investors are very, very wary of investing money via Shanghai or on the mainland. HK serves (served?) as a well governed gateway to investing in China for a lot of non-Chinese funds where the courts were respected and rule of law upheld, almost a carbon copy of the City in Asia. That money isn't going to go to Shanghai, it will most likely not go to China at all which means other Asian countries will benefit from more FDI via paper written in Singapore and London.
    Sure. But in the end the sheer size of China will predominate, and many banks and much fintech and the rest will have to locate partly in China. There will be tacit pressure to go to Shanghai, to keep Beijing happy. Ongoing turmoil in HK will further push people to the "mainland".

    China is a threat to everyone. Finally, a malignant superpower too big to fight and too rich to ignore. Bleak.
    You say that but investors are looking at what's happening to Ant at the moment and taking fright. Whatever pressure there is to go to Shanghai will mean nothing to investors who want to park their money somewhere they know it won't be expropriated or into companies they know won't be taken apart by the CCP for being insufficiently loyal.

    China is at a crossroads itself, at the moment investors are happy to use the HK gateway to invest in mainland companies. China benefits from the foreign cash and its companies gain legitimacy in the process. Now without that gateway China effectively blocks its own markets off for international investors. Maybe it sees this as a good thing because international investors have higher governance demands which Chinese companies don't want to deal with. I see this as China putting up its own wall, the stupidity is in the EU bringing down the wall exactly as China puts one up and in return for vague promises from the CCP to close forced/slave labour camps which we know they will never adhere to.
    Sounds like great news for Singapore, Tokyo, Dubai and other Asian markets, probably London and NY too.

    There’s going to be a lot of money flowing out of HK in the coming months.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,858

    DavidL said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    OllyT said:

    OllyT said:

    So does the GOP fall into civil war or does it reorganise and retake the House in 2022 ?

    The GOP have got themselves into a dire position. Many of them know that the Trump core are batshit crazy / QAnon types but there are too many of them to ignore so they keep quiet because they are scared of them.

    I don't see an easy path for any moderately sane Republican to win a GOP Primary. That's why we still have 10 GOP Senators about to humiliate themselves by still pretending Trump won the election.
    IDK, parties nearly always pick a moderate against an incumbent, not least because if the governing side isn't contested then politics enthusiasts vote in the opposition race, especially where there are open primaries. It's not clear that Trump will be willing and able to run, and if he's not then it's not clear that anybody similar can pull off what he did.
    In some cases you may be correct but I believe the GOP will be dancing to Trump's tune for the next 4 years.

    Trump is a malign, vindictive and bullying individual who will take great pleasure in trying to destroy any Republican who has displeased him. The right really have taken the US into a very dark place and now the genii is out of the bottle it's not going to be easy to put it back.
    I totally share your opinion on the damage done but I do not think Trump & Clan will be the ongoing political force that many fear (or hope if they're on the dark side). Soon he will out of the White House. He'll be an impeached and disgraced one term ex-president with big legal and money troubles who managed the remarkable negative feat of failing to win a 2nd term after just 4 years of his party in power and while he's at it losing both houses of Congress to the hated other.

    From 20 Jan his world will shrink beyond recognition. The difference between being the American president and not being the American president is almost as stark as that between being dead or alive. He'll lose all the trappings of that great office - the most important of which was to have his bullshit piped into people's heads 24/7. Supporters will drift away, not to be replaced by new ones. It will be one way traffic. Drip drip drip until what's left is something not to be taken seriously. He might even realize this himself before too long and concentrate just on cashflow and staying out of jail. Perhaps a deal? Not sure on that one. We'll see.

    But Donald Trump the fearsome politician is over. No doubt there will be other grisly characters (the lizard Ted Cruz?) who will battle to own the MAGA space in the GOP, and one will prevail and be a live contender for the 24 nomination, but that person will not be called Trump and they won't be able to recreate what he did in 15/16 because that stunning achievement owed so much to his personal brand and persona. So they won't win the nomination. The Republican Party might look beyond the pale now but my money is on them detoxifying. Looking forward to the opening of the WH24 betting.
    I think even if Trump and Trump Jnr do not run in 2024 one of Pence or Cruz will be the GOP nominee, the GOP base are not going to pick an establishment and moderate 'RINO' as their nominee anytime soon
    I'll be looking to lay all the MAGA types if that's the consensus view. I especially hope Trump himself and/or his offspring gets quoted at a layable price. But just to clarify, when I say the GOP will detoxify I don't mean they'll go back to a traditional Romney type necessarily. I can see the obstacles to that. What I mean is, they will junk softhead right populism of the Trump variety. They need a new offering and I'm expecting they will come up with one. The Dems will go with New American Dream, which will be powerful. MAGA has no chance against that.
    What they need is a Newt Gingrich style contract with America. Ryan could do something similar if he came back. Clear, coherent economic policies without the madness and idiocy of Trump and his fellow loons.
    The republicans tried this twice with McCain and Romney. They got their backsides handed to them. Which is just where the dems want them to be. Plucky losers. Never getting power really, but vindicating the American system with their very presence. In case the investment horses and democratic allies get frightened.

    So America can still lecture the third world on their elections even though its own election was a shower of sh8t that lasted weeks.

    Gingrich and Ryan were both too right wing for me personally, probably for the vast majority of Brits, but someone of that ilk would be a threat to what is likely to look a tired and ineffectual Presidency all too soon struggling with problems that just look too hard. They don't have to be as moderate as McCain or Romney but they do need to be credible and sane, two tests Trump failed profoundly.
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,080
    Charles said:

    Jonathan said:

    Charles said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    A former Goldman Sachs banker will this week be installed by Boris Johnson as the next BBC chairman amid a deepening debate about the fate of the television licence fee and unprecedented competition from commercial rivals.

    Sky News has learnt that the government is preparing to announce the appointment of Richard Sharp as Sir David Clementi's successor as soon as Thursday.

    Mr Sharp, who during his long career at Goldman was once Rishi Sunak's boss, has spent much of the past year as an unpaid adviser to the chancellor on the economic response to the coronavirus pandemic...

    Mr Sharp was an adviser to the PM during the latter's time as mayor of London, and has historically been a donor to the Conservative Party, although one ally of the new BBC chair said he had given just £2,500 to it in the last decade.


    https://news.sky.com/story/ministers-to-unveil-former-goldman-banker-sharp-as-new-bbc-chair-12180454

    The Guardian are going to have fits....and again it looks like jobs for your mates.

    There's an incredibly casual, almost careless - in fact, almost proud - quality to the govrnment's cronyism. And again, it does have to be said that the current western government that most reminds of, is Trump's ; in a politer and subtler English version.
    They've given up on the subtlety now. It's blatant cronyism. They may as well tear up the Nolan Principles for Public Life and put them in the bin.
    Because of course Labour didn't use their patronage to stuff every public sector and quango post with their own placemen during their tenure? It's taken ten years of Conservative government to clear some of them out, and no doubt many still remain.
    Do you really think that the answer to cronyism and corruption is more of it?

    Perhaps you do. If so, it would explain a lot about the current Tory party.
    The problem is someone like Richard Sharp is well qualified to a non-executive chairman of a major organisation. He’s also served on the financial policy committee of the bank of England and was chairman of the royal academy.

    If you are going to exclude qualified people because they “once kissed a Tory” then you are going to end up with mediocre calibre people on average
    He is Goldman Sachs Mr Entertainment. Queue the jazz hands. He’s a placeman who knows absolutely nothing about broadcasting.
    A chairman’s job is not to second guess the executives
    He or she should know enough to understand when executives are pulling the wool over their eyes. Administration and Management are dialogues between strategic vision and practical reality.
  • Given the orientation of the site, we can surely get someone to defend the EU's investment accord with China, following the latest moves to destroy democracy in Hong Kong.

    Scott?

    TSE?

    You silly boy, I've repeatedly criticised the EU on this, see earlier, I praised Lord Patten comments on this very mater this morning.
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,780
    Charles said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    MaxPB said:

    There seems to be some confusion this morning if the elections are going ahead or not in May.

    Surely worth delaying them to July. No need to have a mass superspreading event just as we're tipping the balance in our favour. Two more months means 20m more people jabbed and 14m more people immunised.
    Just make them all-postal.

    Counting will have to take a bit longer, but we delayed a whole heap of elections from last spring. There's no need to delay again.
    Would 100% postal voting favour anybody in particular in Scotland?
    Perhaps SCons and LDs delivering postal forms and generously offering themselves as return addresses gives a hint?
    I hope there's not going to be any Big Steal type stuff going on! If Nicola goes Trumpy I'll give up.

    But seriously, how do you mean? They deliver a ballot and ask the voter to send it to THEM instead of to the count centre?
    Labour and the SNP have been doing the same for years - except they wait politely in the hall while the voter fills in the firm and then take it back personally.

    I’m assuming that the Tories and Lib Dem’s would do the same if they had the manpower
    That's utter tosh and supported by a complete lack of evidence, an assertion worthy of Trump himself.

    And, apart from the lack of any such evidenced cases, the postal voting rules have been tightened up enormously over the past decade. Even a decade ago there was no way that a third party could return batches of PVs to an electoral registration office by hand, or post back PVs other than in the (already sealed) pre-addressed envelope supplied.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,908
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Yep. This is what I am opining will happen. He is net toxic to the GOP brand and so they need to have this battle and win it. Which they will (both) because the Republican party is bigger than any one man - they're not called the GOP for nothing - and they exist to win power not to service the ego of individuals.

    Time to dig up the old strapline. Trump is Toast. Again.
    I always find it funny when the left give conservatives advice.
    Fair point. Which I have to say since I was making it myself in reverse the other day. But I am very objective for my ilk and the "advice" is sound. New American Dream v MAGA would be no contest in a polarized binary in 24. So the GOP will need to come up with something else. And I think they will.
    The day Trump leaves office any incentive due to party loyalty to provide cover or protection for Trump will end. The GOP will be just delighted to leave Trump to fight his own legal battles, without any assistance from the DOJ, Senate, etc.
  • The Grocer reports that traffic through Dover - Calais is at 15% of normal. "The French Embassy in London told trade groups its ports were seeing a high volume of compliance issues with most lorries containing food and drink arriving from the UK without the required documentation." To help, a "light touch" with regards to paperwork has been adopted this week which ends this Friday.

    It also points to the 30% of meat/fish products that will require additional sanitary and phytosanitary checks. These are the kinds of products which have largely stopped exporting at the moment due to the lack of availability and capacity of qualified vets to issue the certificates.

    A delicate balance to find. The borders work ok with most traffic no longer flowing. Ramp that up and it stops thanks to the backlog effect of having to stop vehicles to check paperwork / products.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,217
    MaxPB said:

    kinabalu said:

    Couple of questions about the vaccination.
    Will those vaccinated have some sort of certificate to say that the =vaccination has taken place? I can't imagine rocking up to a, for example, Thai airport and them happily accepting my word that I've been 'done'.
    and
    Has the Govt. done another U turn. It was reported the morning that pharmacies wouldn't be involved, but I'm sure I've seen somewhere, from later today, that they will?

    You do get a card to say you have been vaccinated

    The Government have not said they will not use Pharmacies. There are issues with the Pfizer vaccine as the whole stock must be used within a certain time and the Government requires Pharmacies to confirm that they will use them so as not waste any. Pharmacies will be fully involved in the Astrazeneca rollout as it lasts 6 months in a fridge.
    Thanks for info about the card.

    Pharmacies and Pfizer was never a runner; it's needed new, suitable fridges in surgeries, and I wouldn't be too surprised if not all hospitals had adequate ones, either. Oxford/AstraZeneca (and the others coming on stream), shouldn't be a problem.
    God bless Oxford/AZ.

    And the Govt. that bought 100 million doses.....
    Not to be churlish but how hard was that? Putting a big order in.
    Very, especially since our order involved a domestic manufacturing requirement rather than relying on the Serum Institute of India which has just been slapped with an export ban. We've basically grown a vaccine manufacturing industry in 9 months, something many thought would be impossible.
    That was indeed 'hats off' then. I am not one to dispute the power of benign and activist government and it's good to see it in operation on something so important.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    Sandpit said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:


    As would attacking the courts and judicial independence, which China is going to do next in HK.

    TBH I'm surprised that the original settlement has lasted as long as it has. But China under Xi Jinping is a whole new level of tyranny, not just in Hong Kong of course.

    Quite how the Chinese government thinks that it can retain Hong Kong's position as a major financial centre and trading hub whilst arbitrarily arresting people, including foreigners, is a complete mystery. They seem to be spectacularly dumb.
    They don't care. They think they are now so strong, people will do business with them anyway. And they reckon lots of business that leaves Hong Kong will move to Shanghai, to please the government. And they are probably right.

    Remember, Beijing doesn't LIKE Hong Kong or Hong Kongers

    Long term, Shanghai and Singapore will dominate Asian finance etc. HK has a future of sad slow decline.
    Lots of foreign investors are very, very wary of investing money via Shanghai or on the mainland. HK serves (served?) as a well governed gateway to investing in China for a lot of non-Chinese funds where the courts were respected and rule of law upheld, almost a carbon copy of the City in Asia. That money isn't going to go to Shanghai, it will most likely not go to China at all which means other Asian countries will benefit from more FDI via paper written in Singapore and London.
    Sure. But in the end the sheer size of China will predominate, and many banks and much fintech and the rest will have to locate partly in China. There will be tacit pressure to go to Shanghai, to keep Beijing happy. Ongoing turmoil in HK will further push people to the "mainland".

    China is a threat to everyone. Finally, a malignant superpower too big to fight and too rich to ignore. Bleak.
    You say that but investors are looking at what's happening to Ant at the moment and taking fright. Whatever pressure there is to go to Shanghai will mean nothing to investors who want to park their money somewhere they know it won't be expropriated or into companies they know won't be taken apart by the CCP for being insufficiently loyal.

    China is at a crossroads itself, at the moment investors are happy to use the HK gateway to invest in mainland companies. China benefits from the foreign cash and its companies gain legitimacy in the process. Now without that gateway China effectively blocks its own markets off for international investors. Maybe it sees this as a good thing because international investors have higher governance demands which Chinese companies don't want to deal with. I see this as China putting up its own wall, the stupidity is in the EU bringing down the wall exactly as China puts one up and in return for vague promises from the CCP to close forced/slave labour camps which we know they will never adhere to.
    Sounds like great news for Singapore, Tokyo, Dubai and other Asian markets, probably London and NY too.

    There’s going to be a lot of money flowing out of HK in the coming months.
    I'd guess at Singapore and London benefiting the most. London is a pretty decent like for like replacement in terms of arbitration, rules and courts. Investors will be happy to park their money here but there is a timezone issue, I'm not sure how big of a deal it will be. My employer doesn't really care and its Japanese.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675

    Jonathan said:

    Charles said:

    Jonathan said:

    Charles said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    A former Goldman Sachs banker will this week be installed by Boris Johnson as the next BBC chairman amid a deepening debate about the fate of the television licence fee and unprecedented competition from commercial rivals.

    Sky News has learnt that the government is preparing to announce the appointment of Richard Sharp as Sir David Clementi's successor as soon as Thursday.

    Mr Sharp, who during his long career at Goldman was once Rishi Sunak's boss, has spent much of the past year as an unpaid adviser to the chancellor on the economic response to the coronavirus pandemic...

    Mr Sharp was an adviser to the PM during the latter's time as mayor of London, and has historically been a donor to the Conservative Party, although one ally of the new BBC chair said he had given just £2,500 to it in the last decade.


    https://news.sky.com/story/ministers-to-unveil-former-goldman-banker-sharp-as-new-bbc-chair-12180454

    The Guardian are going to have fits....and again it looks like jobs for your mates.

    There's an incredibly casual, almost careless - in fact, almost proud - quality to the govrnment's cronyism. And again, it does have to be said that the current western government that most reminds of, is Trump's ; in a politer and subtler English version.
    They've given up on the subtlety now. It's blatant cronyism. They may as well tear up the Nolan Principles for Public Life and put them in the bin.
    Because of course Labour didn't use their patronage to stuff every public sector and quango post with their own placemen during their tenure? It's taken ten years of Conservative government to clear some of them out, and no doubt many still remain.
    Do you really think that the answer to cronyism and corruption is more of it?

    Perhaps you do. If so, it would explain a lot about the current Tory party.
    The problem is someone like Richard Sharp is well qualified to a non-executive chairman of a major organisation. He’s also served on the financial policy committee of the bank of England and was chairman of the royal academy.

    If you are going to exclude qualified people because they “once kissed a Tory” then you are going to end up with mediocre calibre people on average
    He is Goldman Sachs Mr Entertainment. Queue the jazz hands. He’s a placeman who knows absolutely nothing about broadcasting.
    A chairman’s job is not to second guess the executives
    Some knowledge and experience would be useful. This guy has less to offer than Gary from down the coop.
    Sounds like he has knowledge and experience of being chairman of a large organisation.

    The skills of doing that are transferable across sectors.
    Pork.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992


    TOPPING said:



    Obviously your red pen is in constant action with all those ambitious targets never met.

    Still, it makes for a great boardroom atmosphere until reality bites.

    Boardroom ... ?

    When someone is obviously too slow and pedestrian -- like an enormous reticulated truck trundling in the middle of the road and blocking speedier traffic -- it is only then do I suggest that they may need to look elsewhere.

    Perhaps, I say, you may have a future in senior management in a UK boardroom.

    Look, at these opportunities ... the Topping Fine Wine Company are looking to hire at a senior level. Just the job for you.

    And here, what about Topping Hot Air Dirigibles -- they have ambitious plans to harness all the Topping Hot Air for balloons at children's parties. Could be the opportunity for you to make your name at an executive level?

    Of course, they're making one plastic ballon at a time, but they could ramp up, if they hire someone of your ... err, talents ...
    A bit creepy that your post is all about me to be honest but flattering nevertheless.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,804
    kle4 said:

    When is the livestream of the big event?

    I think it is around 5 or 6 pm
  • Alistair said:

    I see we are back with the "Trump who got 2 of the 3 lowest Republican votes shares this millennium" is wildly popular line of thinking.

    Wow, another leftist promising conservatives they still have a chance if only they select a candidate the left approves of.

    I guess we can expect a great deal of this over the next two years.
    Well I'm a right winger who thinks Ronald Reagan was America's best postwar POTUS but I find Trump revolting and am glad the Democrats won.

    Maybe right wingers finding Trump repellant should be taken seriously? Just an idea.
    You fibber, you are the most Trumpian poster on here. I guess you hope that saying you are anti-Trump makes you sound a little more human. Trump is a far right populist and so are you. If you were an American you would be wearing the hat and attending all his rallies and claiming the election was a fraud. You never have any real evidence for your stated views just right wing hunches, just like him. You are probably one of Donald Trump's love children
  • I know it is an evergreen sentiment but Williamson is utterly useless.
  • DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    OllyT said:

    OllyT said:

    So does the GOP fall into civil war or does it reorganise and retake the House in 2022 ?

    The GOP have got themselves into a dire position. Many of them know that the Trump core are batshit crazy / QAnon types but there are too many of them to ignore so they keep quiet because they are scared of them.

    I don't see an easy path for any moderately sane Republican to win a GOP Primary. That's why we still have 10 GOP Senators about to humiliate themselves by still pretending Trump won the election.
    IDK, parties nearly always pick a moderate against an incumbent, not least because if the governing side isn't contested then politics enthusiasts vote in the opposition race, especially where there are open primaries. It's not clear that Trump will be willing and able to run, and if he's not then it's not clear that anybody similar can pull off what he did.
    In some cases you may be correct but I believe the GOP will be dancing to Trump's tune for the next 4 years.

    Trump is a malign, vindictive and bullying individual who will take great pleasure in trying to destroy any Republican who has displeased him. The right really have taken the US into a very dark place and now the genii is out of the bottle it's not going to be easy to put it back.
    I totally share your opinion on the damage done but I do not think Trump & Clan will be the ongoing political force that many fear (or hope if they're on the dark side). Soon he will out of the White House. He'll be an impeached and disgraced one term ex-president with big legal and money troubles who managed the remarkable negative feat of failing to win a 2nd term after just 4 years of his party in power and while he's at it losing both houses of Congress to the hated other.

    From 20 Jan his world will shrink beyond recognition. The difference between being the American president and not being the American president is almost as stark as that between being dead or alive. He'll lose all the trappings of that great office - the most important of which was to have his bullshit piped into people's heads 24/7. Supporters will drift away, not to be replaced by new ones. It will be one way traffic. Drip drip drip until what's left is something not to be taken seriously. He might even realize this himself before too long and concentrate just on cashflow and staying out of jail. Perhaps a deal? Not sure on that one. We'll see.

    But Donald Trump the fearsome politician is over. No doubt there will be other grisly characters (the lizard Ted Cruz?) who will battle to own the MAGA space in the GOP, and one will prevail and be a live contender for the 24 nomination, but that person will not be called Trump and they won't be able to recreate what he did in 15/16 because that stunning achievement owed so much to his personal brand and persona. So they won't win the nomination. The Republican Party might look beyond the pale now but my money is on them detoxifying. Looking forward to the opening of the WH24 betting.
    I think even if Trump and Trump Jnr do not run in 2024 one of Pence or Cruz will be the GOP nominee, the GOP base are not going to pick an establishment and moderate 'RINO' as their nominee anytime soon
    I'll be looking to lay all the MAGA types if that's the consensus view. I especially hope Trump himself and/or his offspring gets quoted at a layable price. But just to clarify, when I say the GOP will detoxify I don't mean they'll go back to a traditional Romney type necessarily. I can see the obstacles to that. What I mean is, they will junk softhead right populism of the Trump variety. They need a new offering and I'm expecting they will come up with one. The Dems will go with New American Dream, which will be powerful. MAGA has no chance against that.
    What they need is a Newt Gingrich style contract with America. Ryan could do something similar if he came back. Clear, coherent economic policies without the madness and idiocy of Trump and his fellow loons.
    The republicans tried this twice with McCain and Romney. They got their backsides handed to them. Which is just where the dems want them to be. Plucky losers. Never getting power really, but vindicating the American system with their very presence. In case the investment horses and democratic allies get frightened.

    So America can still lecture the third world on their elections even though its own election was a shower of sh8t that lasted weeks.

    Gingrich and Ryan were both too right wing for me personally, probably for the vast majority of Brits, but someone of that ilk would be a threat to what is likely to look a tired and ineffectual Presidency all too soon struggling with problems that just look too hard. They don't have to be as moderate as McCain or Romney but they do need to be credible and sane, two tests Trump failed profoundly.
    I find the idea that the problems will be too hard for the new Presidency so dooming it to be remarkably similar to the same talk just before and after the 2010 election when it was assumed by many that it was a bad election to win as the problems were just too much.

    Instead the primary party to win that election has further increased their share of the vote three further elections in a row.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,217

    I know it is an evergreen sentiment but Williamson is utterly useless.

    Just following orders, though, don't you think?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,128
    edited January 2021

    DavidL said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    OllyT said:

    OllyT said:

    So does the GOP fall into civil war or does it reorganise and retake the House in 2022 ?

    The GOP have got themselves into a dire position. Many of them know that the Trump core are batshit crazy / QAnon types but there are too many of them to ignore so they keep quiet because they are scared of them.

    I don't see an easy path for any moderately sane Republican to win a GOP Primary. That's why we still have 10 GOP Senators about to humiliate themselves by still pretending Trump won the election.
    IDK, parties nearly always pick a moderate against an incumbent, not least because if the governing side isn't contested then politics enthusiasts vote in the opposition race, especially where there are open primaries. It's not clear that Trump will be willing and able to run, and if he's not then it's not clear that anybody similar can pull off what he did.
    In some cases you may be correct but I believe the GOP will be dancing to Trump's tune for the next 4 years.

    Trump is a malign, vindictive and bullying individual who will take great pleasure in trying to destroy any Republican who has displeased him. The right really have taken the US into a very dark place and now the genii is out of the bottle it's not going to be easy to put it back.
    I totally share your opinion on the damage done but I do not think Trump & Clan will be the ongoing political force that many fear (or hope if they're on the dark side). Soon he will out of the White House. He'll be an impeached and disgraced one term ex-president with big legal and money troubles who managed the remarkable negative feat of failing to win a 2nd term after just 4 years of his party in power and while he's at it losing both houses of Congress to the hated other.

    From 20 Jan his world will shrink beyond recognition. The difference between being the American president and not being the American president is almost as stark as that between being dead or alive. He'll lose all the trappings of that great office - the most important of which was to have his bullshit piped into people's heads 24/7. Supporters will drift away, not to be replaced by new ones. It will be one way traffic. Drip drip drip until what's left is something not to be taken seriously. He might even realize this himself before too long and concentrate just on cashflow and staying out of jail. Perhaps a deal? Not sure on that one. We'll see.

    But Donald Trump the fearsome politician is over. No doubt there will be other grisly characters (the lizard Ted Cruz?) who will battle to own the MAGA space in the GOP, and one will prevail and be a live contender for the 24 nomination, but that person will not be called Trump and they won't be able to recreate what he did in 15/16 because that stunning achievement owed so much to his personal brand and persona. So they won't win the nomination. The Republican Party might look beyond the pale now but my money is on them detoxifying. Looking forward to the opening of the WH24 betting.
    I think even if Trump and Trump Jnr do not run in 2024 one of Pence or Cruz will be the GOP nominee, the GOP base are not going to pick an establishment and moderate 'RINO' as their nominee anytime soon
    I'll be looking to lay all the MAGA types if that's the consensus view. I especially hope Trump himself and/or his offspring gets quoted at a layable price. But just to clarify, when I say the GOP will detoxify I don't mean they'll go back to a traditional Romney type necessarily. I can see the obstacles to that. What I mean is, they will junk softhead right populism of the Trump variety. They need a new offering and I'm expecting they will come up with one. The Dems will go with New American Dream, which will be powerful. MAGA has no chance against that.
    What they need is a Newt Gingrich style contract with America. Ryan could do something similar if he came back. Clear, coherent economic policies without the madness and idiocy of Trump and his fellow loons.
    The republicans tried this twice with McCain and Romney. They got their backsides handed to them. Which is just where the dems want them to be. Plucky losers. Never getting power really, but vindicating the American system with their very presence. In case the investment horses and democratic allies get frightened.

    So America can still lecture the third world on their elections even though its own election was a shower of sh8t that lasted weeks.

    To be fair to them, had McCain won the GOP nomination rather than Dubya in 2000 he would likely have comfortably beaten Al Gore and won the popular vote too.

    Similarly had Romney run for the GOP nomination in 2016 rather than 2008 and 2012 and won it he would likely have beaten Hillary Clinton.

    Both lost as they were running against an A+ Democratic candidate in Obama, along with JFK and Bill Clinton one of the 3 best candidates the Democrats have nominated since FDR and because of the electoral cycle not because they were terrible candidates
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,596

    kinabalu said:

    Damn, the SE of England really is a mess.

    Good job no-one lives there....
    London is crawling with virus. I am loath to venture anywhere that has other people in the equation until I have the protection.
    How can it be when movement has been heavily restricted in some form or other since November?

    Schools were open until mid-late Dec. Pretty obvious they were the main vector of transmission in our neighbourhood.
    Massive outbreaks now in the very small town closest to me. The high school was open until Dec 22nd. This isn't a coincidence.
    We all knew that schools were a major vector - every school around here went through repeated cycles of having to send home both pupil bubbles and their teachers. At one point a third of my daughter's school was off, and the school that MRs RP was a TA at was close to having to running out of teachers. Local big academy has just had a teacher die of it.

    So obviously, we kept the schools open because the government had declared them safe. Can't go back on that as otherwise people ask what has changed? How many people will we have killed by letting the schools go back for one day this week?
    It is particularly insane in rural areas - where I live, there are no large and very few medium employers, there is little to no commuting on public transport, there isn't even a supermarket.

    The only place where large numbers of households mix are the small hospital (which is operating outpatient procedures under very severe restrictions), and the high school (500 pupils).
    The only good thing is that 25% of teachers and 50% of primary pupils didn't show up that day. That will at least have minimized the numbers involved. I don't know whether that included those that were not attending because of INSET days (like my daughter), and because local authorities had pre-emptively closed on Sunday night (like Brighton and Hove).
  • I know it is an evergreen sentiment but Williamson is utterly useless.

    He's as useful as a marzipan dildo.
This discussion has been closed.