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Sturgeon blocks Trump’s reported plan to be in Scotland on Inauguration Day – politicalbetting.com

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  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,477

    To make the target they need to be doing 2 million a week, every week, from now. If delays in vaccine production mean they won't be up to speed for several weeks, there is no way they make the target without round the clock, 7 day a week effort.

    I said yesterday, Boris was a idiot for setting such a target. If he had said end of March to get top 4 groups done, the public wouldn't have been any more unhappy. If they got it done quicker, would get an extra gold star.

    The NHS has the capacity to deliver 2m vaccines a week. That is therefore a perfectly reasonable target. We can’t wait: this horror show has gone on for nearly a year.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,823

    To make the target they need to be doing 2 million a week, every week, from now. If delays in vaccine production mean they won't be up to speed for several weeks, there is no way they make the target without round the clock, 7 day a week effort.

    I said yesterday, Boris was a idiot for setting such a target. If he had said end of March to get top 4 groups done, the public wouldn't have been any more unhappy. If they got it done quicker, would get an extra gold star.

    Probably stated it publicly to make PHE get a move on. The Telegraph are reporting they are only going to be working six days a week!
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,705
    Maybe the real vaccination race is for the first company to get approval who can also actually produce their thing in extremely large numbers extremely quickly.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,480
    Alistair said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Looks like an absolute landslide for Covid in Georgia.

    Weirdly despite cases surging for the last month an positivity figures hitting the 20%s (and not through lack of testing either) Georgia is not seeing a surge in deaths. Just a very slow steady uptick.

    I have a slight wonder if they are hiding this on the graph by introducing a new "Suspected" Death Category and shutting some mainline deaths to there.

    https://dph.georgia.gov/covid-19-daily-status-report
    Didn't Georgia do something dodgy with the mortality figures last summer, or was it Florida?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,477

    We literally should be using anybody who has training in injections, dentists, pharmacists, vets, the army medics....and working 7 days a week, as many hours a day that can be covered.

    Pay them whatever overtime, it doesn't matter. The Adam Smith Institute report said it costs £5bn a week in government funding for a lockdown and £6bn in lost revenue.

    The rumours doing the rounds is that the government will not have the required number of vaccines to achieve their targets, so there's no point hiring extra staff and space to inject the vaccine.

    Existing staffing numbers will be sufficient for the numbers vaccines they'll have.

    It explains why they're not vaccinating on Sundays.
    AZN want a rocket up their arse. They have had 9 months to get this up and running. They promised 30 million doses no problemo by September...we aren't talking revolutionary technology to produce this, it is all well understood.
    There's been discussion of the glass vials and shortages. Surely it is not beyond the whit of man to recycle these?
    May Day, May Day!
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,921
    One hour :smile:
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,749
    edited January 2021
    There are a lot of opinions on here about the progress on the vaccines and I just cannot get worked up about it, even though I am 77 and have medical issues. My wife who is 81 has no idea when she may be a vaccinated

    However, when we look to Europe and the disaster their vaccine programme is, we should be grateful we are in a very good position

    Furthermore, from Monday everything is going to be revealed daily, so I am content to wait to hear the daily figures
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,268

    Quincel said:
    This cant be true. @HYUFD assured us they would go ahead as planned and that it would be a "national humiliation" to move them.
    It still would be, utterly pathetic if we postpone a few local and devolved elections when the US managed to hold a presidential election with 150 million voters last November despite Covid and is holding 2 Senatorial elections in Georgia today.

    Though at least the article suggests the government only wants to move them to the summer, not cancel them this year altogether
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,477

    Maybe the real vaccination race is for the first company to get approval who can also actually produce their thing in extremely large numbers extremely quickly.

    The government has been boasting about having millions ready to go for weeks. Now it emerges that it is short.

    Pathetic.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,870

    To make the target they need to be doing 2 million a week, every week, from now. If delays in vaccine production mean they won't be up to speed for several weeks, there is no way they make the target without round the clock, 7 day a week effort.

    I said yesterday, Boris was a idiot for setting such a target. If he had said end of March to get top 4 groups done, the public wouldn't have been any more unhappy. If they got it done quicker, would get an extra gold star.

    He cannot help but be the most optimistic he can.

    I honestly don't think it will be that big a deal. If the rollout is close to the target sure there's a political hit, but say it was 1.8m a week and not 2m? Yes there is a cost to that, but it would still be a very impressive result, and that Boris bloody Johnson let his mouth get away from him won't have made any practical difference.

  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,231
    edited January 2021
    I'm watching a film about Al Capone - Sean Connery gave up doing an Irish accent (thankfully, it was terrible) pretty near the beginning and is back to doing Sean Connery again.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Foxy said:

    Alistair said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Looks like an absolute landslide for Covid in Georgia.

    Weirdly despite cases surging for the last month an positivity figures hitting the 20%s (and not through lack of testing either) Georgia is not seeing a surge in deaths. Just a very slow steady uptick.

    I have a slight wonder if they are hiding this on the graph by introducing a new "Suspected" Death Category and shutting some mainline deaths to there.

    https://dph.georgia.gov/covid-19-daily-status-report
    Didn't Georgia do something dodgy with the mortality figures last summer, or was it Florida?
    Georgia did something sensible that got reported as dodgy because media is shit (and because Kemp is a dodgy fucker so it's a safe conclusion to assume any change is dodgy).

    They shifted from day-of-report figures to day-of-death figures.

    Which the media the world over hate because you have to wait 2 weeks to get the days figures.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,477

    There are a lot of opinions on here about the progress on the vaccines and I just cannot get worked up about it, even though I am 77 and have medical issues. My wife who is 81 has no idea when she may be a vaccinated

    However, when we look to Europe and the disaster their vaccine programme is, we should be grateful we are in a very good position

    Furthermore, from Monday everything is going to be revealed daily, so I am content to wait to hear the daily figures

    You also seem fairly comfortable with lockdown. So I’m not that surprised that you are sanguine.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,870

    Maybe the real vaccination race is for the first company to get approval who can also actually produce their thing in extremely large numbers extremely quickly.

    The government has been boasting about having millions ready to go for weeks. Now it emerges that it is short.

    Pathetic.
    Not receiving delivery is one thing that cannot be laid at their door, surely?
  • kle4 said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Quincel said:
    This cant be true. @HYUFD assured us they would go ahead as planned and that it would be a "national humiliation" to move them.
    Giv en the Scots had to wait an extra year once for the convenience of the Tories (admittedly plus LDs) it was an odd assurance.
    No it wasn't convenience for the Tories, it was in 2007 that Scots showed voting for more than one major thing is beyond the wit of most Scots.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-12849105
    Yoiu sure? My memory is that they bumped the Holyrood election to make room for the Wesmtinster GE.
    Because the Scottish Government wanted to move it to avoid the fiasco of 2007.
    No wonder - two different AV systems on the same day. Also this

    https://www.publicfinance.co.uk/news/2016/01/scottish-parliament-elections-set-one-year-delay-avoid-westminster-clash

    I had had a notion that this had happened before - but can't pin it down.
    That's nothing, in 2004 when I lived in London I voted in the following elections on the same day with differing voting systems

    1) London mayoral election - supplementary vote

    2) London assembly election - additional member vote

    3) European election - D'hondt PR

    So I had five votes in three elections with three different voting systems.
    You lucky devil.
    I know, goddamn Brexit means that never happens again.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,477
    HYUFD said:

    Quincel said:
    This cant be true. @HYUFD assured us they would go ahead as planned and that it would be a "national humiliation" to move them.
    It still would be, utterly pathetic if we postpone a few local and devolved elections when the US managed to hold a presidential election with 150 million voters last November despite Covid and is holding 2 Senatorial elections in Georgia today.

    Though at least the article suggests the government only wants to move them to the summer, not cancel them this year altogether
    I completely agree with you on this one.
  • RobD said:

    To make the target they need to be doing 2 million a week, every week, from now. If delays in vaccine production mean they won't be up to speed for several weeks, there is no way they make the target without round the clock, 7 day a week effort.

    I said yesterday, Boris was a idiot for setting such a target. If he had said end of March to get top 4 groups done, the public wouldn't have been any more unhappy. If they got it done quicker, would get an extra gold star.

    Probably stated it publicly to make PHE get a move on. The Telegraph are reporting they are only going to be working six days a week!
    I get the impression that this is what happened with testing as well. By announcing a target, they bounce PHE into either getting it done or allowing themselves to be sidelined by someone who will.

    None of us really knows what goes on behind closed doors, of course, but my guess is the PHE will not come out of the eventual inquiry very well.

    Mind you, if they are supply constrained for the next couple of months, there really isn't any point going nuts on delivery. If they *aren't* supply constrained then I imagine the manufacturers will leak it, so that the blame doesn't fall on them.

    --AS
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,870

    HYUFD said:

    Quincel said:
    This cant be true. @HYUFD assured us they would go ahead as planned and that it would be a "national humiliation" to move them.
    It still would be, utterly pathetic if we postpone a few local and devolved elections when the US managed to hold a presidential election with 150 million voters last November despite Covid and is holding 2 Senatorial elections in Georgia today.

    Though at least the article suggests the government only wants to move them to the summer, not cancel them this year altogether
    I completely agree with you on this one.
    So do I. There are some logistical issues, but authorities have been planning for them for many months already, I really do not believe we would be unable to hold them in May. And if its decided not to to ease burdens and reduce risks, I really don't see why would need to be more than a few months rather than pushed to the Autumn.
  • kle4 said:

    Maybe the real vaccination race is for the first company to get approval who can also actually produce their thing in extremely large numbers extremely quickly.

    The government has been boasting about having millions ready to go for weeks. Now it emerges that it is short.

    Pathetic.
    Not receiving delivery is one thing that cannot be laid at their door, surely?
    I tried to have that conversation with Anabobazina a day or two ago. Save your breath. They are just posting the same complaints over and over now.

    --AS
  • HYUFD said:

    Quincel said:
    This cant be true. @HYUFD assured us they would go ahead as planned and that it would be a "national humiliation" to move them.
    It still would be, utterly pathetic if we postpone a few local and devolved elections when the US managed to hold a presidential election with 150 million voters last November despite Covid and is holding 2 Senatorial elections in Georgia today.

    Though at least the article suggests the government only wants to move them to the summer, not cancel them this year altogether
    You were not willing to think of any deferment yesterday, but as you do you move your opinion only when it becomes obvious you were wrong
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,890
    edited January 2021
    How the fuck does anyone get out of bed and think, hmm I know I'll head out and help McConnell keep the senate today.
    A nation of @HYUFD voters...
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,477
    kle4 said:

    Maybe the real vaccination race is for the first company to get approval who can also actually produce their thing in extremely large numbers extremely quickly.

    The government has been boasting about having millions ready to go for weeks. Now it emerges that it is short.

    Pathetic.
    Not receiving delivery is one thing that cannot be laid at their door, surely?
    Sure it can. They are project managing it, they need be on top of it. It’s AZ’s failure, but the government cannot be held blameless.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,231
    kle4 said:

    Maybe the real vaccination race is for the first company to get approval who can also actually produce their thing in extremely large numbers extremely quickly.

    The government has been boasting about having millions ready to go for weeks. Now it emerges that it is short.

    Pathetic.
    Not receiving delivery is one thing that cannot be laid at their door, surely?
    It could be laid at their door, but unfortunately it hasn't been delivered.
  • There are a lot of opinions on here about the progress on the vaccines and I just cannot get worked up about it, even though I am 77 and have medical issues. My wife who is 81 has no idea when she may be a vaccinated

    However, when we look to Europe and the disaster their vaccine programme is, we should be grateful we are in a very good position

    Furthermore, from Monday everything is going to be revealed daily, so I am content to wait to hear the daily figures

    You also seem fairly comfortable with lockdown. So I’m not that surprised that you are sanguine.
    Not sanguine, just realistic and that the vaccinations will take off this next few days and weeks
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,870

    kle4 said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Quincel said:
    This cant be true. @HYUFD assured us they would go ahead as planned and that it would be a "national humiliation" to move them.
    Giv en the Scots had to wait an extra year once for the convenience of the Tories (admittedly plus LDs) it was an odd assurance.
    No it wasn't convenience for the Tories, it was in 2007 that Scots showed voting for more than one major thing is beyond the wit of most Scots.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-12849105
    Yoiu sure? My memory is that they bumped the Holyrood election to make room for the Wesmtinster GE.
    Because the Scottish Government wanted to move it to avoid the fiasco of 2007.
    No wonder - two different AV systems on the same day. Also this

    https://www.publicfinance.co.uk/news/2016/01/scottish-parliament-elections-set-one-year-delay-avoid-westminster-clash

    I had had a notion that this had happened before - but can't pin it down.
    That's nothing, in 2004 when I lived in London I voted in the following elections on the same day with differing voting systems

    1) London mayoral election - supplementary vote

    2) London assembly election - additional member vote

    3) European election - D'hondt PR

    So I had five votes in three elections with three different voting systems.
    You lucky devil.
    I know, goddamn Brexit means that never happens again.
    If I ever become an MP I'll be submitting my Electoral Excitement Bill as a Private Members Bill. Among other details, each election cycle would be be done under a different electoral system to the last one, in a randomised order. Think of how vairable things would be!
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,342

    I'm watching a film about Al Capone - Sean Connery gave up doing an Irish accent (thankfully, it was terrible) pretty near the beginning and is back to doing Sean Connery again.

    Untouchables. Re-watched it the other night.
    Remarkable that Ness was 27 when appointed.
    Even more remarkable he died of natural causes.
    But neither, in any way, as remarkable as Connery's accent.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,870
    edited January 2021

    kle4 said:

    Maybe the real vaccination race is for the first company to get approval who can also actually produce their thing in extremely large numbers extremely quickly.

    The government has been boasting about having millions ready to go for weeks. Now it emerges that it is short.

    Pathetic.
    Not receiving delivery is one thing that cannot be laid at their door, surely?
    Sure it can. They are project managing it, they need be on top of it. It’s AZ’s failure, but the government cannot be held blameless.
    A project manager isn't at fault if someone fails to provide them with something and they had no means to change that. That'd be like blaming a farmer for there being a drought.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,166

    There are a lot of opinions on here about the progress on the vaccines and I just cannot get worked up about it, even though I am 77 and have medical issues. My wife who is 81 has no idea when she may be a vaccinated

    However, when we look to Europe and the disaster their vaccine programme is, we should be grateful we are in a very good position

    Furthermore, from Monday everything is going to be revealed daily, so I am content to wait to hear the daily figures

    A daily update on vaccination is a big improvement.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,342
    kle4 said:

    Maybe the real vaccination race is for the first company to get approval who can also actually produce their thing in extremely large numbers extremely quickly.

    The government has been boasting about having millions ready to go for weeks. Now it emerges that it is short.

    Pathetic.
    Not receiving delivery is one thing that cannot be laid at their door, surely?
    No.
    But strongly implying it had already been delivered can.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    dixiedean said:

    I'm watching a film about Al Capone - Sean Connery gave up doing an Irish accent (thankfully, it was terrible) pretty near the beginning and is back to doing Sean Connery again.

    Untouchables. Re-watched it the other night.
    Remarkable that Ness was 27 when appointed.
    Even more remarkable he died of natural causes.
    But neither, in any way, as remarkable as Connery's accent.
    The Battleship Potemkin Odessa Steps homage is a marvelous piece of film making.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,921
    HYUFD said:

    Quincel said:
    This cant be true. @HYUFD assured us they would go ahead as planned and that it would be a "national humiliation" to move them.
    It still would be, utterly pathetic if we postpone a few local and devolved elections when the US managed to hold a presidential election with 150 million voters last November despite Covid and is holding 2 Senatorial elections in Georgia today.

    Though at least the article suggests the government only wants to move them to the summer, not cancel them this year altogether
    Yeah, but in the US the results are all decided in advance by the One World Government, so it's easy for them.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,477

    kle4 said:

    Maybe the real vaccination race is for the first company to get approval who can also actually produce their thing in extremely large numbers extremely quickly.

    The government has been boasting about having millions ready to go for weeks. Now it emerges that it is short.

    Pathetic.
    Not receiving delivery is one thing that cannot be laid at their door, surely?
    I tried to have that conversation with Anabobazina a day or two ago. Save your breath. They are just posting the same complaints over and over now.

    --AS
    Yes, and I countered your argument then. The government (project manager) is responsible for its delivery. Sure, the supplier fucked up, but it should have been on top of it. Are you seriously saying that it was?

    P.S. you don’t need to sign your posts, your avatar shows who wrote them
  • Pulpstar said:

    How the fuck does anyone get out of bed and think, hmm I know I'll head out and help McConnell keep the senate today.
    A nation of @HYUFD voters...

    Say you're a moderate GOPer, anti Trumper, say a Romney kinda person.

    Now that you've got rid of Trump do you really want the Dems to be in charge of the White House, House of Representatives, and the Senate?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,870
    edited January 2021
    dixiedean said:

    kle4 said:

    Maybe the real vaccination race is for the first company to get approval who can also actually produce their thing in extremely large numbers extremely quickly.

    The government has been boasting about having millions ready to go for weeks. Now it emerges that it is short.

    Pathetic.
    Not receiving delivery is one thing that cannot be laid at their door, surely?
    No.
    But strongly implying it had already been delivered can.
    Fair point, that is so, but as Anabobazina's follow up demonstrates the complaint was about the failure to produce enough, not merely communication matters.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,477
    Bit of a stupid post as for some demographic groups there are many killer beans and for other demographic groups statistically zero.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,870
    edited January 2021

    kle4 said:

    Maybe the real vaccination race is for the first company to get approval who can also actually produce their thing in extremely large numbers extremely quickly.

    The government has been boasting about having millions ready to go for weeks. Now it emerges that it is short.

    Pathetic.
    Not receiving delivery is one thing that cannot be laid at their door, surely?
    I tried to have that conversation with Anabobazina a day or two ago. Save your breath. They are just posting the same complaints over and over now.

    --AS
    Yes, and I countered your argument then. The government (project manager) is responsible for its delivery. Sure, the supplier fucked up, but it should have been on top of it. Are you seriously saying that it was?

    P.S. you don’t need to sign your posts, your avatar shows who wrote them
    The project manager cannot deliver if it isn't provided it in the first place. And they cannot make the supplier provide more.

    I know many project managers, and they would be far from happy at people thinking they take on the level of responsibility for each and every action that you ascribe to them. Indeed, other parties are listed as being responsible parties for various things for a reason.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,705
    Andy_JS said:

    There are a lot of opinions on here about the progress on the vaccines and I just cannot get worked up about it, even though I am 77 and have medical issues. My wife who is 81 has no idea when she may be a vaccinated

    However, when we look to Europe and the disaster their vaccine programme is, we should be grateful we are in a very good position

    Furthermore, from Monday everything is going to be revealed daily, so I am content to wait to hear the daily figures

    A daily update on vaccination is a big improvement.
    Would be interesting if they used it as a platform to go AZN HAVE ONLY DELIVERED US X VACCINES TODAY type messaging.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,528

    kle4 said:

    Maybe the real vaccination race is for the first company to get approval who can also actually produce their thing in extremely large numbers extremely quickly.

    The government has been boasting about having millions ready to go for weeks. Now it emerges that it is short.

    Pathetic.
    Not receiving delivery is one thing that cannot be laid at their door, surely?
    Sure it can. They are project managing it, they need be on top of it. It’s AZ’s failure, but the government cannot be held blameless.
    No, the issue is that the government doesn't have the bandwidth to test the batches quickly. AZ have said that 4m doses are currently produced which means 3.5m are awaiting approval. That process needs to be scaled up by the MHRA so it can approve many more batches at the same time. That seems to be the supply related bottleneck, but I think the government is already ramping this part up.
  • kle4 said:

    Maybe the real vaccination race is for the first company to get approval who can also actually produce their thing in extremely large numbers extremely quickly.

    The government has been boasting about having millions ready to go for weeks. Now it emerges that it is short.

    Pathetic.
    Not receiving delivery is one thing that cannot be laid at their door, surely?
    I tried to have that conversation with Anabobazina a day or two ago. Save your breath. They are just posting the same complaints over and over now.

    --AS
    Except the government have allowed the impression to develop that they're done a brilliant shopping job and the UK is going to knock Brer Virus out of the park in time for us to all go and enjoy the Boat Race.

    Meanwhile, our foolish neighbours will look on sadly and unvaccinated.

    It was always going to be more complicated than that, but the impression has been allowed to develop.

    So if it doesn't happen, the government is back in "Live by the sword, die by the sword" territory
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,477
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Maybe the real vaccination race is for the first company to get approval who can also actually produce their thing in extremely large numbers extremely quickly.

    The government has been boasting about having millions ready to go for weeks. Now it emerges that it is short.

    Pathetic.
    Not receiving delivery is one thing that cannot be laid at their door, surely?
    Sure it can. They are project managing it, they need be on top of it. It’s AZ’s failure, but the government cannot be held blameless.
    A project manager isn't at fault if someone fails to provide them with something and they had no means to change that. That'd be like blaming a farmer for there being a drought.
    No it would be like blaming a farmer for boasting about a bumper crop just a fortnight ago, then him turning up to market empty handed.
  • kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Quincel said:
    This cant be true. @HYUFD assured us they would go ahead as planned and that it would be a "national humiliation" to move them.
    Giv en the Scots had to wait an extra year once for the convenience of the Tories (admittedly plus LDs) it was an odd assurance.
    No it wasn't convenience for the Tories, it was in 2007 that Scots showed voting for more than one major thing is beyond the wit of most Scots.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-12849105
    Yoiu sure? My memory is that they bumped the Holyrood election to make room for the Wesmtinster GE.
    Because the Scottish Government wanted to move it to avoid the fiasco of 2007.
    No wonder - two different AV systems on the same day. Also this

    https://www.publicfinance.co.uk/news/2016/01/scottish-parliament-elections-set-one-year-delay-avoid-westminster-clash

    I had had a notion that this had happened before - but can't pin it down.
    That's nothing, in 2004 when I lived in London I voted in the following elections on the same day with differing voting systems

    1) London mayoral election - supplementary vote

    2) London assembly election - additional member vote

    3) European election - D'hondt PR

    So I had five votes in three elections with three different voting systems.
    You lucky devil.
    I know, goddamn Brexit means that never happens again.
    If I ever become an MP I'll be submitting my Electoral Excitement Bill as a Private Members Bill. Among other details, each election cycle would be be done under a different electoral system to the last one, in a randomised order. Think of how vairable things would be!
    That's even better than AV.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,870
    edited January 2021

    kle4 said:

    Maybe the real vaccination race is for the first company to get approval who can also actually produce their thing in extremely large numbers extremely quickly.

    The government has been boasting about having millions ready to go for weeks. Now it emerges that it is short.

    Pathetic.
    Not receiving delivery is one thing that cannot be laid at their door, surely?
    I tried to have that conversation with Anabobazina a day or two ago. Save your breath. They are just posting the same complaints over and over now.

    --AS
    Except the government have allowed the impression to develop that they're done a brilliant shopping job and the UK is going to knock Brer Virus out of the park in time for us to all go and enjoy the Boat Race.

    Meanwhile, our foolish neighbours will look on sadly and unvaccinated.

    It was always going to be more complicated than that, but the impression has been allowed to develop.

    So if it doesn't happen, the government is back in "Live by the sword, die by the sword" territory
    One misconception is not addressed by another misconception. A failure of government communication should be pointed out and not repeated, but doesn't mean miscommunication about their culpability is reasonable.
  • So this I reckon means the GOP voters stayed at home as they thought there's no point voting?

    https://twitter.com/ryanstruyk/status/1346596546687750146
  • Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Quincel said:
    This cant be true. @HYUFD assured us they would go ahead as planned and that it would be a "national humiliation" to move them.
    Giv en the Scots had to wait an extra year once for the convenience of the Tories (admittedly plus LDs) it was an odd assurance.
    No it wasn't convenience for the Tories, it was in 2007 that Scots showed voting for more than one major thing is beyond the wit of most Scots.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-12849105
    Yoiu sure? My memory is that they bumped the Holyrood election to make room for the Wesmtinster GE.
    Because the Scottish Government wanted to move it to avoid the fiasco of 2007.
    No wonder - two different AV systems on the same day. Also this

    https://www.publicfinance.co.uk/news/2016/01/scottish-parliament-elections-set-one-year-delay-avoid-westminster-clash

    I had had a notion that this had happened before - but can't pin it down.
    That's nothing, in 2004 when I lived in London I voted in the following elections on the same day with differing voting systems

    1) London mayoral election - supplementary vote

    2) London assembly election - additional member vote

    3) European election - D'hondt PR

    So I had five votes in three elections with three different voting systems.
    I have a feeling it was deemed to be 'wrong' in 2007 because the 'wrong' lot won ...
    It wasn't for that.

    If you look at the sheer number of rejected ballots compared to similar elections it was clear something had gone wrong with the voting process.

    Something that David Mundell had accurately predicted in 2004.
    All 4 "establishment" parties acquiesced in the re-design of the Holyrood ballot papers in 2007 as a means of stymying the "2nd vote Green" campaign which had had some success in 2003.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,870

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Maybe the real vaccination race is for the first company to get approval who can also actually produce their thing in extremely large numbers extremely quickly.

    The government has been boasting about having millions ready to go for weeks. Now it emerges that it is short.

    Pathetic.
    Not receiving delivery is one thing that cannot be laid at their door, surely?
    Sure it can. They are project managing it, they need be on top of it. It’s AZ’s failure, but the government cannot be held blameless.
    A project manager isn't at fault if someone fails to provide them with something and they had no means to change that. That'd be like blaming a farmer for there being a drought.
    No it would be like blaming a farmer for boasting about a bumper crop just a fortnight ago, then him turning up to market empty handed.
    Nope, because you've made clear it is not just about what the government said that is the issue, but the failure to deliver, something they needed to be on top of, and the latter is not as down to them as you claim it is. I absolutely agree they should not have stated or implied they had more ready to go than they did, but that is separate to responibility for issues of supply.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,890
    We can't judge/compare vaccinations across nations yet - first to get all 70+ / first to say 25% of pop / first to get herd immunity. Those are the metrics we'll be able to judge everyone on.
    That said Israel is off to a flyer.
  • kle4 said:

    Maybe the real vaccination race is for the first company to get approval who can also actually produce their thing in extremely large numbers extremely quickly.

    The government has been boasting about having millions ready to go for weeks. Now it emerges that it is short.

    Pathetic.
    Not receiving delivery is one thing that cannot be laid at their door, surely?
    I tried to have that conversation with Anabobazina a day or two ago. Save your breath. They are just posting the same complaints over and over now.

    --AS
    Except the government have allowed the impression to develop that they're done a brilliant shopping job and the UK is going to knock Brer Virus out of the park in time for us to all go and enjoy the Boat Race.

    Meanwhile, our foolish neighbours will look on sadly and unvaccinated.

    It was always going to be more complicated than that, but the impression has been allowed to develop.

    So if it doesn't happen, the government is back in "Live by the sword, die by the sword" territory
    Yes, I agree that the government has got the messaging wrong. Consistently so (except perhaps on testing there they were ridiculed for over-promising and actually pretty much got there).

    I can't really understand why they keep making that mistake. It's clearly bad politics and bad tactics, but they keep falling into the same trap over and trap. It's pretty tragic really.

    --AS
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,921

    Bit of a stupid post as for some demographic groups there are many killer beans and for other demographic groups statistically zero.
    So, here's a bag of jelly beans. If you have one, your granny has to have one too. And it has a one-in-ten chance of killing her.

    Would you like the jelly bean?

    Better?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,231
    dixiedean said:

    I'm watching a film about Al Capone - Sean Connery gave up doing an Irish accent (thankfully, it was terrible) pretty near the beginning and is back to doing Sean Connery again.

    Untouchables. Re-watched it the other night.
    Remarkable that Ness was 27 when appointed.
    Even more remarkable he died of natural causes.
    But neither, in any way, as remarkable as Connery's accent.
    Deniro is excellent (no idea if it's accurate to what Capone was like, but he convinces as a nasty nasty man). Costner is OK - he gets a lot of shit for being wooden, but he isn't wooden to the extent of someone like Bill Paxton - it isn't film spoiling like that.

    I get the feeling there's some benefit to it being filmed in the 90's before PC took over - Sean Connery's character is an inveterate racist and violent with it but also a 'good guy' to some extent. I'm not sure we see that light and shade at present.
  • guybrushguybrush Posts: 257
    edited January 2021
    MaxPB said:

    kle4 said:

    Maybe the real vaccination race is for the first company to get approval who can also actually produce their thing in extremely large numbers extremely quickly.

    The government has been boasting about having millions ready to go for weeks. Now it emerges that it is short.

    Pathetic.
    Not receiving delivery is one thing that cannot be laid at their door, surely?
    Sure it can. They are project managing it, they need be on top of it. It’s AZ’s failure, but the government cannot be held blameless.
    No, the issue is that the government doesn't have the bandwidth to test the batches quickly. AZ have said that 4m doses are currently produced which means 3.5m are awaiting approval. That process needs to be scaled up by the MHRA so it can approve many more batches at the same time. That seems to be the supply related bottleneck, but I think the government is already ramping this part up.
    That's the way things should be with project management. If it goes wrong on your watch, you're accountable, no excuses please.

    Do you have a reference for the testing thing. Doesn't say a lot for AZ's quality control that the government is testing every batch, or is that the normal approach with vaccines?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,301
    edited January 2021
    Be afraid Mississippi, he'll betray you and defect to Arkansas.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,342

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Maybe the real vaccination race is for the first company to get approval who can also actually produce their thing in extremely large numbers extremely quickly.

    The government has been boasting about having millions ready to go for weeks. Now it emerges that it is short.

    Pathetic.
    Not receiving delivery is one thing that cannot be laid at their door, surely?
    Sure it can. They are project managing it, they need be on top of it. It’s AZ’s failure, but the government cannot be held blameless.
    A project manager isn't at fault if someone fails to provide them with something and they had no means to change that. That'd be like blaming a farmer for there being a drought.
    No it would be like blaming a farmer for boasting about a bumper crop just a fortnight ago, then him turning up to market empty handed.
    On a related issue. What will happen to the tens, possibly hundreds of thousands of test kits currently in boxes at, or en route to, all the "Covid safe" schools?
  • guybrushguybrush Posts: 257
    https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-some-covid-restrictions-could-return-next-winter-chief-medical-officer-warns-12180133

    "We accept there is a level of risk that society will tolerate - and we should tolerate.

    "People die - that's one of the things that happens.

    "And we have to [tolerate the risk] at a certain point."

    He added: "Zero risk is not something which is a realistic possibility."


    I've been banging on about this for ages, so it's good to see Whitty bringing it up. As a society we need a to have a collective conversation about our tolerance to risk, and just how "safe" is we can reasonably expect to be in the post Covid world order.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,342
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Maybe the real vaccination race is for the first company to get approval who can also actually produce their thing in extremely large numbers extremely quickly.

    The government has been boasting about having millions ready to go for weeks. Now it emerges that it is short.

    Pathetic.
    Not receiving delivery is one thing that cannot be laid at their door, surely?
    I tried to have that conversation with Anabobazina a day or two ago. Save your breath. They are just posting the same complaints over and over now.

    --AS
    Except the government have allowed the impression to develop that they're done a brilliant shopping job and the UK is going to knock Brer Virus out of the park in time for us to all go and enjoy the Boat Race.

    Meanwhile, our foolish neighbours will look on sadly and unvaccinated.

    It was always going to be more complicated than that, but the impression has been allowed to develop.

    So if it doesn't happen, the government is back in "Live by the sword, die by the sword" territory
    One misconception is not addressed by another misconception. A failure of government communication should be pointed out and not repeated, but doesn't mean miscommunication about their culpability is reasonable.
    Hmm. It's the "not repeated" bit.
    After all. We've "beaten the virus" several times already.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,823
    guybrush said:

    MaxPB said:

    kle4 said:

    Maybe the real vaccination race is for the first company to get approval who can also actually produce their thing in extremely large numbers extremely quickly.

    The government has been boasting about having millions ready to go for weeks. Now it emerges that it is short.

    Pathetic.
    Not receiving delivery is one thing that cannot be laid at their door, surely?
    Sure it can. They are project managing it, they need be on top of it. It’s AZ’s failure, but the government cannot be held blameless.
    No, the issue is that the government doesn't have the bandwidth to test the batches quickly. AZ have said that 4m doses are currently produced which means 3.5m are awaiting approval. That process needs to be scaled up by the MHRA so it can approve many more batches at the same time. That seems to be the supply related bottleneck, but I think the government is already ramping this part up.
    That's the way things should be with project management. If it goes wrong on your watch, you're accountable, no excuses please.

    Do you have a reference for the testing thing. Doesn't say a lot for AZ's quality control that the government is testing every batch, or is that the normal approach with vaccines?
    As I understand it the vaccines have to sit on a shelf for three week to ensure they are sterile.
  • kle4 said:

    Maybe the real vaccination race is for the first company to get approval who can also actually produce their thing in extremely large numbers extremely quickly.

    The government has been boasting about having millions ready to go for weeks. Now it emerges that it is short.

    Pathetic.
    Not receiving delivery is one thing that cannot be laid at their door, surely?
    I tried to have that conversation with Anabobazina a day or two ago. Save your breath. They are just posting the same complaints over and over now.

    --AS
    Except the government have allowed the impression to develop that they're done a brilliant shopping job and the UK is going to knock Brer Virus out of the park in time for us to all go and enjoy the Boat Race.

    Meanwhile, our foolish neighbours will look on sadly and unvaccinated.

    It was always going to be more complicated than that, but the impression has been allowed to develop.

    So if it doesn't happen, the government is back in "Live by the sword, die by the sword" territory
    Yes, I agree that the government has got the messaging wrong. Consistently so (except perhaps on testing there they were ridiculed for over-promising and actually pretty much got there).

    I can't really understand why they keep making that mistake. It's clearly bad politics and bad tactics, but they keep falling into the same trap over and trap. It's pretty tragic really.

    --AS
    But saying stuff like this is what Boris always does. It's up there with "Of course I'll respect you in the morning."

    It's brilliant until the victims realise they've been taken for a ride. And he'll keep doing it for as long as he isn't punished for it.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,823
    guybrush said:

    MaxPB said:

    kle4 said:

    Maybe the real vaccination race is for the first company to get approval who can also actually produce their thing in extremely large numbers extremely quickly.

    The government has been boasting about having millions ready to go for weeks. Now it emerges that it is short.

    Pathetic.
    Not receiving delivery is one thing that cannot be laid at their door, surely?
    Sure it can. They are project managing it, they need be on top of it. It’s AZ’s failure, but the government cannot be held blameless.
    No, the issue is that the government doesn't have the bandwidth to test the batches quickly. AZ have said that 4m doses are currently produced which means 3.5m are awaiting approval. That process needs to be scaled up by the MHRA so it can approve many more batches at the same time. That seems to be the supply related bottleneck, but I think the government is already ramping this part up.
    That's the way things should be with project management. If it goes wrong on your watch, you're accountable, no excuses please.

    Do you have a reference for the testing thing. Doesn't say a lot for AZ's quality control that the government is testing every batch, or is that the normal approach with vaccines?
    As I understand it the vaccines have to sit on a shelf for three week to ensure they are sterile.
  • rcs1000 said:

    Bit of a stupid post as for some demographic groups there are many killer beans and for other demographic groups statistically zero.
    So, here's a bag of jelly beans. If you have one, your granny has to have one too. And it has a one-in-ten chance of killing her.

    Would you like the jelly bean?

    Better?
    To which many people can answer one or more of these:

    Granny is dead
    Granny lives elsewhere
    Granny is a miserable old witch
    Granny is rich and I'll inherit
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,301
    edited January 2021
    If the government thought they'd have sufficient number of vaccines they'd be using pharmacies to help deliver the vaccine but no...

    Exclusive: Pharmacies' offer to give Covid jabs snubbed by ministers

    Number 10 facing questions over urgency of vaccination programme after industry's efforts to help are rejected


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/01/05/pharmacies-offer-give-covid-jabs-snubbed-ministers/

    So we're not vaccinating on Sundays nor via pharmacies.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,823
    dixiedean said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Maybe the real vaccination race is for the first company to get approval who can also actually produce their thing in extremely large numbers extremely quickly.

    The government has been boasting about having millions ready to go for weeks. Now it emerges that it is short.

    Pathetic.
    Not receiving delivery is one thing that cannot be laid at their door, surely?
    Sure it can. They are project managing it, they need be on top of it. It’s AZ’s failure, but the government cannot be held blameless.
    A project manager isn't at fault if someone fails to provide them with something and they had no means to change that. That'd be like blaming a farmer for there being a drought.
    No it would be like blaming a farmer for boasting about a bumper crop just a fortnight ago, then him turning up to market empty handed.
    On a related issue. What will happen to the tens, possibly hundreds of thousands of test kits currently in boxes at, or en route to, all the "Covid safe" schools?
    They'll be used elsewhere? I don't think they go off.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,528
    guybrush said:

    MaxPB said:

    kle4 said:

    Maybe the real vaccination race is for the first company to get approval who can also actually produce their thing in extremely large numbers extremely quickly.

    The government has been boasting about having millions ready to go for weeks. Now it emerges that it is short.

    Pathetic.
    Not receiving delivery is one thing that cannot be laid at their door, surely?
    Sure it can. They are project managing it, they need be on top of it. It’s AZ’s failure, but the government cannot be held blameless.
    No, the issue is that the government doesn't have the bandwidth to test the batches quickly. AZ have said that 4m doses are currently produced which means 3.5m are awaiting approval. That process needs to be scaled up by the MHRA so it can approve many more batches at the same time. That seems to be the supply related bottleneck, but I think the government is already ramping this part up.
    That's the way things should be with project management. If it goes wrong on your watch, you're accountable, no excuses please.

    Do you have a reference for the testing thing. Doesn't say a lot for AZ's quality control that the government is testing every batch, or is that the normal approach with vaccines?
    Standard approach, both sides check to make sure there's no issues. The Times had an article about it a couple of days ago, the current approach is around half a million doses that can be approved per week but the government wants to catch up with supply.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,342
    Good grief.
    At least he's out of our hands now. Bit of a dangerous Socialist for Mississippi?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,823
    edited January 2021

    If the government thought they'd have sufficient number of vaccines they'd be using pharmacies to help deliver the vaccine but no...

    Exclusive: Pharmacies' offer to give Covid jabs snubbed by ministers

    Number 10 facing questions over urgency of vaccination programme after industry's efforts to help are rejected


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/01/05/pharmacies-offer-give-covid-jabs-snubbed-ministers/

    So we're not vaccinating on Sundays nor via pharmacies.

    I posted that on the old thread, but the story contradicts the headline by saying that pharmacies are already involved. Not working on Sunday is utterly ridiculous though, wouldn't be surprised if that was PHE at work again.

    Edit: Ah, the Sunday thing only refers to delivery, and they will make exception if supplies are low. It doesn't refer to the vaccination program. More fake news bollocks from the Telegraph.
  • Jacob Blake: No police officers charged over Kenosha shooting

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-55554558
  • On topic: I'm not sure there's anything to this story, but, if it were true, I would take the diametric opposite position to that which most PBers have expressed. It would be an extremely valuable contribution to world peace and to democracy if Sturgeon could help with getting Trump out of the US and into a country with a universally respected legal system, and with a wonderful choice of remote islands with draughty castles and cottages where President Trump could be warmly welcomed whilst he waits for the next ferry to call in a few months' time.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    What a scene, what tension, what build up.

    https://youtu.be/eRJ539f5Ugc
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,123

    On topic: I'm not sure there's anything to this story, but, if it were true, I would take the diametric opposite position to that which most PBers have expressed. It would be an extremely valuable contribution to world peace and to democracy if Sturgeon could help with getting Trump out of the US and into a country with a universally respected legal system, and with a wonderful choice of remote islands with draughty castles and cottages where President Trump could be warmly welcomed whilst he waits for the next ferry to call in a few months' time.

    Surely he can just move into Turnberry. It’s big and white, so a bit like what he’s been used to.
  • On topic: I'm not sure there's anything to this story, but, if it were true, I would take the diametric opposite position to that which most PBers have expressed. It would be an extremely valuable contribution to world peace and to democracy if Sturgeon could help with getting Trump out of the US and into a country with a universally respected legal system, and with a wonderful choice of remote islands with draughty castles and cottages where President Trump could be warmly welcomed whilst he waits for the next ferry to call in a few months' time.

    I wouldn't mind him being here long enough to be served with an unexplained wealth order.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,357
    Alistair said:

    What a scene, what tension, what build up.

    https://youtu.be/eRJ539f5Ugc

    Famously borrowed from Battleship Potemkin
  • kle4 said:

    Maybe the real vaccination race is for the first company to get approval who can also actually produce their thing in extremely large numbers extremely quickly.

    The government has been boasting about having millions ready to go for weeks. Now it emerges that it is short.

    Pathetic.
    Not receiving delivery is one thing that cannot be laid at their door, surely?
    I tried to have that conversation with Anabobazina a day or two ago. Save your breath. They are just posting the same complaints over and over now.

    --AS
    Except the government have allowed the impression to develop that they're done a brilliant shopping job and the UK is going to knock Brer Virus out of the park in time for us to all go and enjoy the Boat Race.

    Meanwhile, our foolish neighbours will look on sadly and unvaccinated.

    It was always going to be more complicated than that, but the impression has been allowed to develop.

    So if it doesn't happen, the government is back in "Live by the sword, die by the sword" territory
    Yes, I agree that the government has got the messaging wrong. Consistently so (except perhaps on testing there they were ridiculed for over-promising and actually pretty much got there).

    I can't really understand why they keep making that mistake. It's clearly bad politics and bad tactics, but they keep falling into the same trap over and trap. It's pretty tragic really.

    --AS
    But saying stuff like this is what Boris always does. It's up there with "Of course I'll respect you in the morning."

    It's brilliant until the victims realise they've been taken for a ride. And he'll keep doing it for as long as he isn't punished for it.
    What I find odd is that it's only brilliant in the short term. Long term it's clearly bad strategy: I think the public know they've been conned and trust less because of it. My mother, for example, is not interested in politics but she twigged to this modus operandi ages ago.

    I was trying to figure this out. Either it's just because they think he can get away with it, that the public won't remember the broken promises. Or (and I find this possibility much more frightening) that those high up in government simply cannot accept the situation and are in denial about it because it's too painful to them, with nobody strong enough to stand up and force them to confront reality. It makes me realize that I'd preferred to be lied to by a devious government than to have a delusional one tell me honestly what they think...

    --AS
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,264
    rcs1000 said:

    Bit of a stupid post as for some demographic groups there are many killer beans and for other demographic groups statistically zero.
    So, here's a bag of jelly beans. If you have one, your granny has to have one too. And it has a one-in-ten chance of killing her.

    Would you like the jelly bean?

    Better?
    To be fair that assumes contact.

    Not enough people on here, or indeed in general, have recognised the sacrifices made by the young (who will also be paying for all this).

    At worst my jelly bean tub has 10,000 jelly beans, of which 1 is bad, whereas I've lost 1.25% of my life, same maths goes for vast swathes of the population.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,342

    dixiedean said:

    I'm watching a film about Al Capone - Sean Connery gave up doing an Irish accent (thankfully, it was terrible) pretty near the beginning and is back to doing Sean Connery again.

    Untouchables. Re-watched it the other night.
    Remarkable that Ness was 27 when appointed.
    Even more remarkable he died of natural causes.
    But neither, in any way, as remarkable as Connery's accent.
    Deniro is excellent (no idea if it's accurate to what Capone was like, but he convinces as a nasty nasty man). Costner is OK - he gets a lot of shit for being wooden, but he isn't wooden to the extent of someone like Bill Paxton - it isn't film spoiling like that.

    I get the feeling there's some benefit to it being filmed in the 90's before PC took over - Sean Connery's character is an inveterate racist and violent with it but also a 'good guy' to some extent. I'm not sure we see that light and shade at present.
    Fair. One thing Costner doesn't convey is Ness' youth. He looks like a man in early middle age. The whole reason they succeeded was that they were untainted by the system.
    De Niro is barely in the film. But he steals it anyways.
    The scene on the border bridge is another (along with the steps) classic.
    Reminiscent of a spectacular John Ford Western ambush.
    Eminently watchable and satisfying. If a little flawed.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,357
    dixiedean said:

    I'm watching a film about Al Capone - Sean Connery gave up doing an Irish accent (thankfully, it was terrible) pretty near the beginning and is back to doing Sean Connery again.

    Untouchables. Re-watched it the other night.
    Remarkable that Ness was 27 when appointed.
    Even more remarkable he died of natural causes.
    But neither, in any way, as remarkable as Connery's accent.
    And everyone who takes a drink, dies....
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042
    As someone who has a bet on Trump not attending the inauguration, I'd like to ask Ms Sturgeon to reconsider.

    Who am I kidding. He'll find something else to do.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,870
    Impressive stuff, hopefully they can continue to speed up and we can do likewise.
  • dixiedean said:

    Good grief.
    At least he's out of our hands now. Bit of a dangerous Socialist for Mississippi?
    The "Mississippi Center for Public Policy" is a "free-market, conservative think tank". NOT a public institution, but rather a business lobby. financed by some of the Magnolia State's most fragrant land pirates.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Chameleon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Bit of a stupid post as for some demographic groups there are many killer beans and for other demographic groups statistically zero.
    So, here's a bag of jelly beans. If you have one, your granny has to have one too. And it has a one-in-ten chance of killing her.

    Would you like the jelly bean?

    Better?
    To be fair that assumes contact.

    Not enough people on here, or indeed in general, have recognised the sacrifices made by the young (who will also be paying for all this).

    At worst my jelly bean tub has 10,000 jelly beans, of which 1 is bad, whereas I've lost 1.25% of my life, same maths goes for vast swathes of the population.
    And if you say no to the jellybean, you have to stay indoors for a year while the
    country goes skint
  • kle4 said:

    Maybe the real vaccination race is for the first company to get approval who can also actually produce their thing in extremely large numbers extremely quickly.

    The government has been boasting about having millions ready to go for weeks. Now it emerges that it is short.

    Pathetic.
    Not receiving delivery is one thing that cannot be laid at their door, surely?
    I tried to have that conversation with Anabobazina a day or two ago. Save your breath. They are just posting the same complaints over and over now.

    --AS
    Except the government have allowed the impression to develop that they're done a brilliant shopping job and the UK is going to knock Brer Virus out of the park in time for us to all go and enjoy the Boat Race.

    Meanwhile, our foolish neighbours will look on sadly and unvaccinated.

    It was always going to be more complicated than that, but the impression has been allowed to develop.

    So if it doesn't happen, the government is back in "Live by the sword, die by the sword" territory
    Yes, I agree that the government has got the messaging wrong. Consistently so (except perhaps on testing there they were ridiculed for over-promising and actually pretty much got there).

    I can't really understand why they keep making that mistake. It's clearly bad politics and bad tactics, but they keep falling into the same trap over and trap. It's pretty tragic really.

    --AS
    But saying stuff like this is what Boris always does. It's up there with "Of course I'll respect you in the morning."

    It's brilliant until the victims realise they've been taken for a ride. And he'll keep doing it for as long as he isn't punished for it.
    What I find odd is that it's only brilliant in the short term. Long term it's clearly bad strategy: I think the public know they've been conned and trust less because of it. My mother, for example, is not interested in politics but she twigged to this modus operandi ages ago.

    I was trying to figure this out. Either it's just because they think he can get away with it, that the public won't remember the broken promises. Or (and I find this possibility much more frightening) that those high up in government simply cannot accept the situation and are in denial about it because it's too painful to them, with nobody strong enough to stand up and force them to confront reality. It makes me realize that I'd preferred to be lied to by a devious government than to have a delusional one tell me honestly what they think...

    --AS
    I don't know. Except that people will often go to great lengths to convince themselves that they haven't been conned, until the evidence is impossible to ignore. And this government is a pretty mediocre one, with a lot of compromised individuals in it.

    As to the endgame, I don't see how this doesn't end badly for Johnson and his acolytes. But I can see the bubble staying unburst for a long time- though it could happen tomorrow.

    And on that note...
  • dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    I'm watching a film about Al Capone - Sean Connery gave up doing an Irish accent (thankfully, it was terrible) pretty near the beginning and is back to doing Sean Connery again.

    Untouchables. Re-watched it the other night.
    Remarkable that Ness was 27 when appointed.
    Even more remarkable he died of natural causes.
    But neither, in any way, as remarkable as Connery's accent.
    Deniro is excellent (no idea if it's accurate to what Capone was like, but he convinces as a nasty nasty man). Costner is OK - he gets a lot of shit for being wooden, but he isn't wooden to the extent of someone like Bill Paxton - it isn't film spoiling like that.

    I get the feeling there's some benefit to it being filmed in the 90's before PC took over - Sean Connery's character is an inveterate racist and violent with it but also a 'good guy' to some extent. I'm not sure we see that light and shade at present.
    Fair. One thing Costner doesn't convey is Ness' youth. He looks like a man in early middle age. The whole reason they succeeded was that they were untainted by the system.
    De Niro is barely in the film. But he steals it anyways.
    The scene on the border bridge is another (along with the steps) classic.
    Reminiscent of a spectacular John Ford Western ambush.
    Eminently watchable and satisfying. If a little flawed.
    Note that the movie "The Untouchables" was homage to (and milking of) the classic US early TV crime series "The Untouchables" staring Robert Stack and featuring the narration of Walter Winchell, who was had been a top newspaper & radio commentator; WW's career was on the downside, but he had a VERY distinctive voice that is the most memorable thing from the TV show - or the movie, which is a pretty cartoonish.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,870

    kle4 said:

    Maybe the real vaccination race is for the first company to get approval who can also actually produce their thing in extremely large numbers extremely quickly.

    The government has been boasting about having millions ready to go for weeks. Now it emerges that it is short.

    Pathetic.
    Not receiving delivery is one thing that cannot be laid at their door, surely?
    I tried to have that conversation with Anabobazina a day or two ago. Save your breath. They are just posting the same complaints over and over now.

    --AS
    Except the government have allowed the impression to develop that they're done a brilliant shopping job and the UK is going to knock Brer Virus out of the park in time for us to all go and enjoy the Boat Race.

    Meanwhile, our foolish neighbours will look on sadly and unvaccinated.

    It was always going to be more complicated than that, but the impression has been allowed to develop.

    So if it doesn't happen, the government is back in "Live by the sword, die by the sword" territory
    Yes, I agree that the government has got the messaging wrong. Consistently so (except perhaps on testing there they were ridiculed for over-promising and actually pretty much got there).

    I can't really understand why they keep making that mistake. It's clearly bad politics and bad tactics, but they keep falling into the same trap over and trap. It's pretty tragic really.

    --AS
    But saying stuff like this is what Boris always does. It's up there with "Of course I'll respect you in the morning."

    It's brilliant until the victims realise they've been taken for a ride. And he'll keep doing it for as long as he isn't punished for it.
    What I find odd is that it's only brilliant in the short term. Long term it's clearly bad strategy: I think the public know they've been conned and trust less because of it. My mother, for example, is not interested in politics but she twigged to this modus operandi ages ago.

    I was trying to figure this out. Either it's just because they think he can get away with it, that the public won't remember the broken promises. Or (and I find this possibility much more frightening) that those high up in government simply cannot accept the situation and are in denial about it because it's too painful to them, with nobody strong enough to stand up and force them to confront reality. It makes me realize that I'd preferred to be lied to by a devious government than to have a delusional one tell me honestly what they think...

    --AS
    Be wary, that's how conspiracies start as well!

    I think the denial is the most likely situation. You shoot big with the promises as sometimes people say you cannot do it and you can, so you try anyway on the assumption you can, no matter what anyone says. As everyone notes, long term it is damaging, but it is what it is.
  • Polls will close in GA in a few minutes. BUT folks in line at 7pm will be (or at least should be) allowed to vote, so in some precincts will take a while before voting is actually concluded and counting begins.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,270
    edited January 2021
    dixiedean said:

    Good grief.
    At least he's out of our hands now. Bit of a dangerous Socialist for Mississippi?
    Okay so I have been a big fan of Carswell and really like his ideas. I also like advertised idea of the Mississippi Centre for Public Policy as stated on their website. Nor am I in favour of tokenism.

    But are you really telling me that in the State of Mississippi, a state where apparently 38% of the population are black, there is not a single, suitable, libertarian minded black who would be interested in serving on the Management Team, or the board of Directors, or as a Contributing Fellow?

    Edit: The inclusion of someone from the 'Centre for Pregnancy Choices' as a contributing fellow also rings alarm bells.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,342

    Alistair said:

    What a scene, what tension, what build up.

    https://youtu.be/eRJ539f5Ugc

    Famously borrowed from Battleship Potemkin
    There's a similar homage in Brazil. Involving a vacuum cleaner. Which also has DeNiro starring.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,597
    edited January 2021
    RobD said:

    guybrush said:

    MaxPB said:

    kle4 said:

    Maybe the real vaccination race is for the first company to get approval who can also actually produce their thing in extremely large numbers extremely quickly.

    The government has been boasting about having millions ready to go for weeks. Now it emerges that it is short.

    Pathetic.
    Not receiving delivery is one thing that cannot be laid at their door, surely?
    Sure it can. They are project managing it, they need be on top of it. It’s AZ’s failure, but the government cannot be held blameless.
    No, the issue is that the government doesn't have the bandwidth to test the batches quickly. AZ have said that 4m doses are currently produced which means 3.5m are awaiting approval. That process needs to be scaled up by the MHRA so it can approve many more batches at the same time. That seems to be the supply related bottleneck, but I think the government is already ramping this part up.
    That's the way things should be with project management. If it goes wrong on your watch, you're accountable, no excuses please.

    Do you have a reference for the testing thing. Doesn't say a lot for AZ's quality control that the government is testing every batch, or is that the normal approach with vaccines?
    As I understand it the vaccines have to sit on a shelf for three week to ensure they are sterile.
    Is the sterility testing that

    a) The batch has enough preservatives to have killed everything bad
    or
    b) The batch was not contaminated during manufacture

    If b) surely they could sample a batch to check for fungus or bacteria DNA?


    Or is it every single dose that has to be checked?
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    CBS - says both results are toss ups
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,268
    edited January 2021
    dixiedean said:

    Good grief.
    At least he's out of our hands now. Bit of a dangerous Socialist for Mississippi?
    If he was going to pick the most rightwing and conservative place in the western world to base himself in, Mississippi was probably a good bet, it has not voted for a Democrat for President since Carter in 1976, though yes it does mean he will be a relative moderate amongst conservatives there
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,921

    kle4 said:

    Maybe the real vaccination race is for the first company to get approval who can also actually produce their thing in extremely large numbers extremely quickly.

    The government has been boasting about having millions ready to go for weeks. Now it emerges that it is short.

    Pathetic.
    Not receiving delivery is one thing that cannot be laid at their door, surely?
    I tried to have that conversation with Anabobazina a day or two ago. Save your breath. They are just posting the same complaints over and over now.

    --AS
    Except the government have allowed the impression to develop that they're done a brilliant shopping job and the UK is going to knock Brer Virus out of the park in time for us to all go and enjoy the Boat Race.

    Meanwhile, our foolish neighbours will look on sadly and unvaccinated.

    It was always going to be more complicated than that, but the impression has been allowed to develop.

    So if it doesn't happen, the government is back in "Live by the sword, die by the sword" territory
    Yes, I agree that the government has got the messaging wrong. Consistently so (except perhaps on testing there they were ridiculed for over-promising and actually pretty much got there).

    I can't really understand why they keep making that mistake. It's clearly bad politics and bad tactics, but they keep falling into the same trap over and trap. It's pretty tragic really.

    --AS
    The problem is that no ramp up of anything, ever is without problems and hiccups

    You target 10,000. On the first day, you manage 600 because of a whole bunch of sanfus.

    Everyone thinks you are totally useless.

    On day two, you manage 1,100. Still massively less than the target.

    But you get better every single day. Problems are identified and solved. People are hired. People get better at their jobs. Processes are put in place.

    This is the story of every ramp up ever (see Tesla's "production hell" with the Model 3).

    The UK is now on a curve. There will be more vaccines, from more manufacturers, arriving every day. Remember: every day will be better than the last.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,427
    edited January 2021

    RobD said:

    guybrush said:

    MaxPB said:

    kle4 said:

    Maybe the real vaccination race is for the first company to get approval who can also actually produce their thing in extremely large numbers extremely quickly.

    The government has been boasting about having millions ready to go for weeks. Now it emerges that it is short.

    Pathetic.
    Not receiving delivery is one thing that cannot be laid at their door, surely?
    Sure it can. They are project managing it, they need be on top of it. It’s AZ’s failure, but the government cannot be held blameless.
    No, the issue is that the government doesn't have the bandwidth to test the batches quickly. AZ have said that 4m doses are currently produced which means 3.5m are awaiting approval. That process needs to be scaled up by the MHRA so it can approve many more batches at the same time. That seems to be the supply related bottleneck, but I think the government is already ramping this part up.
    That's the way things should be with project management. If it goes wrong on your watch, you're accountable, no excuses please.

    Do you have a reference for the testing thing. Doesn't say a lot for AZ's quality control that the government is testing every batch, or is that the normal approach with vaccines?
    As I understand it the vaccines have to sit on a shelf for three week to ensure they are sterile.
    Is the sterility testing that

    a) The batch has enough preservatives to have killed everything bad
    or
    b) The batch was not contaminated during manufacture

    If b) surely they could sample a batch to check for fungus or bacteria DNA?


    Or is it every single dose that has to be checked?
    Going off my own personal experience in biopharm manufacturing, they will take a sample from every batch and wait for any bugs to grow. However of course you can't use any of the doses from that batch until you have waited the required time to see if the sample grows everything.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513
    dixiedean said:

    Alistair said:

    What a scene, what tension, what build up.

    https://youtu.be/eRJ539f5Ugc

    Famously borrowed from Battleship Potemkin
    There's a similar homage in Brazil. Involving a vacuum cleaner. Which also has DeNiro starring.
    His finest role.
    I’m not a fan , but he was great in that. An extended cameo, rather than starring, which is probably why I liked it.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,190

    If the government thought they'd have sufficient number of vaccines they'd be using pharmacies to help deliver the vaccine but no...

    Exclusive: Pharmacies' offer to give Covid jabs snubbed by ministers

    Number 10 facing questions over urgency of vaccination programme after industry's efforts to help are rejected


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/01/05/pharmacies-offer-give-covid-jabs-snubbed-ministers/

    So we're not vaccinating on Sundays nor via pharmacies.

    Don't worry, the first four highest risk categories will all be vaccinated by mid-February. I know this because Boris Johnson said it would, and Boris Johnson is our Prime Minister.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513

    dixiedean said:

    Good grief.
    At least he's out of our hands now. Bit of a dangerous Socialist for Mississippi?
    Okay so I have been a big fan of Carswell and really like his ideas. I also like advertised idea of the Mississippi Centre for Public Policy as stated on their website. Nor am I in favour of tokenism.

    But are you really telling me that in the State of Mississippi, a state where apparently 38% of the population are black, there is not a single, suitable, libertarian minded black who would be interested in serving on the Management Team, or the board of Directors, or as a Contributing Fellow?

    Edit: The inclusion of someone from the 'Centre for Pregnancy Choices' as a contributing fellow also rings alarm bells.
    Bunch of right wing kooks hired a right wing kook ?
    Not complicated.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,637
    Just done a Covid test

    Negative

    Sprouts
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,664
    John King underway - first 700 votes in!
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,320
    Quincel said:

    As someone who has a bet on Trump not attending the inauguration, I'd like to ask Ms Sturgeon to reconsider.

    Who am I kidding. He'll find something else to do.

    Maybe he'll try to bully Boris Johnson into overruling Sturgeon, and end up creating a stunt at the border accompanied by HYUFD's MAGA Army?
This discussion has been closed.