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Cockney Covid: is it already everywhere? – politicalbetting.com

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  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    That’s when they might split, quite easily. See how the Nats on here already divide between Sturgeon-admirers, and those who openly detest her.

    I'm surprised this seems to be flying under the radar so far. The sheer amount of vitriol being exchanged beteen the various nat factions is extordinary, the comments sectons on some nat blogs are like war zones. Sturgeon is public enemny number one with a good chunk of indy activists, who seem to regard her as some kind of unionist secret agent.
    Neither Eck or Nippy has given evidence to the inquiry yet. Even Murrell managed to contradict his wife, so will be interesting to see what her former best mate does.

    The SNP have been almost supernaturally fortunate in how Covid has wiped all this stuff off the headlines. Even the drugs death disaster was overtaken by SuperCovid. Quite extraordinary.
    Quite extraordinary how Unionists see Covid almost entirely through the lens of how it affects the preservation of their precious Union.
    Whereas you DON’T see every issue through the prism of Scottish independence? Oh for the gift to see ourselves....
    Who the fuck are you, newbie?
    Sean
  • @Leon Sean are you well?
  • malcolmg said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    We need to build a wall and make Londoners and the South pay for it.
    Looking at this, and Malmesbury’s excellent data, it is striking how R0 does NOT correlate with relative poverty. The richest parts of England are the most infected, some of the poorest parts of the UK have some of the lowest covid rates in the country.
    even Cornwall!
    Fuck off

    (only kidding)

    I'm in remote Cornwall and I'd quite like not to have Tier 4 down here. Ta.
    Make the most of it - Boris will change you to Tier 4 soon
    Good for Starmer. I could almost vote for him.

    https://twitter.com/keir_starmer/status/1341061004415922178?s=21

    No indyref2 til 2024, and likely no indyref2 even after that, even under Labour. A generation = a generation

    This could split the SNP. The hardcore will demand UDI
    While I'm heartened and stirred by his words, and think a Labour recovery is pretty important if the Union is to have a chance in Scotland, I find it hard to see how the parties will sustain opposition once the SNP romp home in the spring, particularly when the various unionist parties seem like they cannot bear to cooperate even if only on this one issue. If it is not even close, and the winners are unequivocal about what they want, denial just seems so hard.

    Hoping the SNP split over UDI backers and patient referendum backers, well, it just seems wistful to me. I'd love it to happen, but is it really likely?
    Yes, it’s likely. Westminster has hardened against indyref2. From left to right. What can the SNP do? Go to court.. where they will lose. And then?

    That’s when they might split, quite easily. See how the Nats on here already divide between Sturgeon-admirers, and those who openly detest her.
    You started early today, some proper mince in that posting.
    It is Sean
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,859
    Alistair said:

    Not a great Christmas round at Paddy Powers....

    https://twitter.com/pokerfuse/status/1341090075925499907?s=19

    I'm not going to lie, that decision seems bonkers.
    I don't have much sympathy. The law was clear. What they were doing was illegal. They have to pay the consequences, no matter how bizarrely the penalty is calculated. Its not as if the money is going back to those who lost it. It is a fine. Tough.
  • tlg86 said:

    Anecdote, not sure if @NickPalmer can corroborate this, but my dad had a phone call from a friend in Godalming (Waverley borough - Tier 2). He said it was absolutely heaving today. Assume people are travelling there from neighbouring Guildford (Tier 4).

    Family says hello from just over near Farnham!
    My grandparents lived in Farnham, it's a nice town, we used to visit them for our summer holidays when I was a kid (Frencham ponds, Birdworld, the Watercress Line were the highlights).
    I'm in Alton. I can hear (and even smell, at times) the trains from my house.
  • tlg86 said:

    Anecdote, not sure if @NickPalmer can corroborate this, but my dad had a phone call from a friend in Godalming (Waverley borough - Tier 2). He said it was absolutely heaving today. Assume people are travelling there from neighbouring Guildford (Tier 4).

    Family says hello from just over near Farnham!
    My grandparents lived in Farnham, it's a nice town, we used to visit them for our summer holidays when I was a kid (Frencham ponds, Birdworld, the Watercress Line were the highlights).
    I'm in Alton. I can hear (and even smell, at times) the trains from my house.
    Very, very close to my family indeed!!!
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,859

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    That’s when they might split, quite easily. See how the Nats on here already divide between Sturgeon-admirers, and those who openly detest her.

    I'm surprised this seems to be flying under the radar so far. The sheer amount of vitriol being exchanged beteen the various nat factions is extordinary, the comments sectons on some nat blogs are like war zones. Sturgeon is public enemny number one with a good chunk of indy activists, who seem to regard her as some kind of unionist secret agent.
    Neither Eck or Nippy has given evidence to the inquiry yet. Even Murrell managed to contradict his wife, so will be interesting to see what her former best mate does.

    The SNP have been almost supernaturally fortunate in how Covid has wiped all this stuff off the headlines. Even the drugs death disaster was overtaken by SuperCovid. Quite extraordinary.
    Quite extraordinary how Unionists see Covid almost entirely through the lens of how it affects the preservation of their precious Union.
    Whereas you DON’T see every issue through the prism of Scottish independence? Oh for the gift to see ourselves....
    Who the fuck are you, newbie?
    Sean
    Why do you think that this is productive?
  • Whom is this 'Sean'? :lol:
  • Whom is this 'Sean'? :lol:

    Sean was previously LadyG, he's joined about five million times under different accounts. He lives a very sad life, it seems.
  • tlg86 said:

    Anecdote, not sure if @NickPalmer can corroborate this, but my dad had a phone call from a friend in Godalming (Waverley borough - Tier 2). He said it was absolutely heaving today. Assume people are travelling there from neighbouring Guildford (Tier 4).

    Family says hello from just over near Farnham!
    My grandparents lived in Farnham, it's a nice town, we used to visit them for our summer holidays when I was a kid (Frencham ponds, Birdworld, the Watercress Line were the highlights).
    I'm in Alton. I can hear (and even smell, at times) the trains from my house.
    Very jealous. Spent some of the happiest times of my life on the Watercress Line as a child. I still drag the kids along occasionally (my aunt still lives in Farnham and we can combine visiting her with a trip on the train).
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,036
    Sir Patrick V won the press conference.

    Bozo must regret inviting him along.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Whom is this 'Sean'? :lol:

    WHO is this Sean?

    Pro tip: using who incorrectly for whom is hardly even incorrect, whereas using whom when you mean who looks bonkers.
  • I thought "outing" posters was verboten?

    You'd better tell that to the twat incapable of posting in anything other than a single style.
  • IshmaelZ said:

    Whom is this 'Sean'? :lol:

    WHO is this Sean?

    Pro tip: using who incorrectly for whom is hardly even incorrect, whereas using whom when you mean who looks bonkers.
    Yes I have been caught out and told off by the grammar nuts of PB before! I won't be falling foul of their rules again!!!
  • I thought "outing" posters was verboten?

    You'd better tell that to the twat incapable of posting in anything other than a single style.
    He outs himself, it's part of the game he plays
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    DavidL said:

    Alistair said:

    Not a great Christmas round at Paddy Powers....

    https://twitter.com/pokerfuse/status/1341090075925499907?s=19

    I'm not going to lie, that decision seems bonkers.
    I don't have much sympathy. The law was clear. What they were doing was illegal. They have to pay the consequences, no matter how bizarrely the penalty is calculated. Its not as if the money is going back to those who lost it. It is a fine. Tough.
    Oh, don't get me wrong. They are guilty as fuck and deserve the trebling but the initial calculation is absolute pants on head madness.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,036

    tlg86 said:

    Anecdote, not sure if @NickPalmer can corroborate this, but my dad had a phone call from a friend in Godalming (Waverley borough - Tier 2). He said it was absolutely heaving today. Assume people are travelling there from neighbouring Guildford (Tier 4).

    Family says hello from just over near Farnham!
    My grandparents lived in Farnham, it's a nice town, we used to visit them for our summer holidays when I was a kid (Frencham ponds, Birdworld, the Watercress Line were the highlights).
    I'm in Alton. I can hear (and even smell, at times) the trains from my house.
    Very jealous. Spent some of the happiest times of my life on the Watercress Line as a child. I still drag the kids along occasionally (my aunt still lives in Farnham and we can combine visiting her with a trip on the train).
    They've got a Hoover...

    https://preservation.watercressline.co.uk/stock/view/50027-class-50-lion
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,449

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    That’s when they might split, quite easily. See how the Nats on here already divide between Sturgeon-admirers, and those who openly detest her.

    I'm surprised this seems to be flying under the radar so far. The sheer amount of vitriol being exchanged beteen the various nat factions is extordinary, the comments sectons on some nat blogs are like war zones. Sturgeon is public enemny number one with a good chunk of indy activists, who seem to regard her as some kind of unionist secret agent.
    Neither Eck or Nippy has given evidence to the inquiry yet. Even Murrell managed to contradict his wife, so will be interesting to see what her former best mate does.

    The SNP have been almost supernaturally fortunate in how Covid has wiped all this stuff off the headlines. Even the drugs death disaster was overtaken by SuperCovid. Quite extraordinary.
    Quite extraordinary how Unionists see Covid almost entirely through the lens of how it affects the preservation of their precious Union.
    Whereas you DON’T see every issue through the prism of Scottish independence? Oh for the gift to see ourselves....
    Who the fuck are you, newbie?
    Nerve. Touched.
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    That’s when they might split, quite easily. See how the Nats on here already divide between Sturgeon-admirers, and those who openly detest her.

    I'm surprised this seems to be flying under the radar so far. The sheer amount of vitriol being exchanged beteen the various nat factions is extordinary, the comments sectons on some nat blogs are like war zones. Sturgeon is public enemny number one with a good chunk of indy activists, who seem to regard her as some kind of unionist secret agent.
    Neither Eck or Nippy has given evidence to the inquiry yet. Even Murrell managed to contradict his wife, so will be interesting to see what her former best mate does.

    The SNP have been almost supernaturally fortunate in how Covid has wiped all this stuff off the headlines. Even the drugs death disaster was overtaken by SuperCovid. Quite extraordinary.
    Quite extraordinary how Unionists see Covid almost entirely through the lens of how it affects the preservation of their precious Union.
    Whereas you DON’T see every issue through the prism of Scottish independence? Oh for the gift to see ourselves....
    Who the fuck are you, newbie?
    Nerve. Touched.
    I'm glad you're not pretending this time at least
  • juniusjunius Posts: 73
    junius said:

    slade said:

    On the question of rich and poor parts of cities I remember an episode from my past. I took a group of American students from Durham down to London. They were all expecting the London of Westminster and the West End. As we pulled in to Kings Cross ( or was it Euston?) one of the students said 'It's just like Los Angeles.'

    If it was from Durham it would have been Kings Cross. Huge regeneration since then...
    It may well become the best place in London for the next couple of decades.
    King's Cross has always been the best place in London. It's where you leave from to head north.
    I proposed to my (now) wife on King's Cross Station - in 1968. Hoped the Buffet would be open as I wanted the least romantic venue. It was shut. So outside the Buffet on Platform 8 had to do. We are still together 62 years later.
    Ooops. For 62 - read 52. I'm getting on a bit.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    junius said:

    slade said:

    On the question of rich and poor parts of cities I remember an episode from my past. I took a group of American students from Durham down to London. They were all expecting the London of Westminster and the West End. As we pulled in to Kings Cross ( or was it Euston?) one of the students said 'It's just like Los Angeles.'

    If it was from Durham it would have been Kings Cross. Huge regeneration since then...
    It may well become the best place in London for the next couple of decades.
    King's Cross has always been the best place in London. It's where you leave from to head north.
    I proposed to my (now) wife on King's Cross Station - in 1968. Hoped the Buffet would be open as I wanted the least romantic venue. It was shut. So outside the Buffet on Platform 8 had to do. We are still together 62 years later.
    You're sure she didn't feel railroaded into it?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,859
    Alistair said:

    DavidL said:

    Alistair said:

    Not a great Christmas round at Paddy Powers....

    https://twitter.com/pokerfuse/status/1341090075925499907?s=19

    I'm not going to lie, that decision seems bonkers.
    I don't have much sympathy. The law was clear. What they were doing was illegal. They have to pay the consequences, no matter how bizarrely the penalty is calculated. Its not as if the money is going back to those who lost it. It is a fine. Tough.
    Oh, don't get me wrong. They are guilty as fuck and deserve the trebling but the initial calculation is absolute pants on head madness.
    It is a don't piss about thinking you can make money by ignoring the law here judgment.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176

    tlg86 said:

    Anecdote, not sure if @NickPalmer can corroborate this, but my dad had a phone call from a friend in Godalming (Waverley borough - Tier 2). He said it was absolutely heaving today. Assume people are travelling there from neighbouring Guildford (Tier 4).

    Family says hello from just over near Farnham!
    My grandparents lived in Farnham, it's a nice town, we used to visit them for our summer holidays when I was a kid (Frencham ponds, Birdworld, the Watercress Line were the highlights).
    I'm in Alton. I can hear (and even smell, at times) the trains from my house.
    Very jealous. Spent some of the happiest times of my life on the Watercress Line as a child. I still drag the kids along occasionally (my aunt still lives in Farnham and we can combine visiting her with a trip on the train).
    They've got a Hoover...

    https://preservation.watercressline.co.uk/stock/view/50027-class-50-lion
    I am just old enough to remember seeing that through Woking working the Salisbury/Exeter services. I was hoping that the new franchise contract would be won by someone wanting to replace the 159s with loco hauled services like they have on TPE. Alas, First got it and they don't care about the West of England line as it competes with their GWR franchise.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,449
    Macron looks properly sick. And about 10 years older. Clearly one hopes he recovers but I wonder what his illness is doing to French policy-making

    https://twitter.com/metaburbia/status/1341102756745129992?s=21
  • Who would it be a consulate to?

    Tibet considers itself still the rightful Government of all China unlike the rebellious Communist upstarts and not a separate nation do they not?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,036
    junius said:

    slade said:

    On the question of rich and poor parts of cities I remember an episode from my past. I took a group of American students from Durham down to London. They were all expecting the London of Westminster and the West End. As we pulled in to Kings Cross ( or was it Euston?) one of the students said 'It's just like Los Angeles.'

    If it was from Durham it would have been Kings Cross. Huge regeneration since then...
    It may well become the best place in London for the next couple of decades.
    King's Cross has always been the best place in London. It's where you leave from to head north.
    I proposed to my (now) wife on King's Cross Station - in 1968. Hoped the Buffet would be open as I wanted the least romantic venue. It was shut. So outside the Buffet on Platform 8 had to do. We are still together 62 years later.
    Never mind your beloved - you should have been on the end of the platform swooning over the Deltics!
  • tlg86 said:

    Anecdote, not sure if @NickPalmer can corroborate this, but my dad had a phone call from a friend in Godalming (Waverley borough - Tier 2). He said it was absolutely heaving today. Assume people are travelling there from neighbouring Guildford (Tier 4).

    Family says hello from just over near Farnham!
    My grandparents lived in Farnham, it's a nice town, we used to visit them for our summer holidays when I was a kid (Frencham ponds, Birdworld, the Watercress Line were the highlights).
    I'm in Alton. I can hear (and even smell, at times) the trains from my house.
    Very jealous. Spent some of the happiest times of my life on the Watercress Line as a child. I still drag the kids along occasionally (my aunt still lives in Farnham and we can combine visiting her with a trip on the train).
    Some friends went on the Christmas Lights train at the weekend. Looked great, if you enjoy Christmassy shit.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,366

    Alistair said:

    Not a great Christmas round at Paddy Powers....

    https://twitter.com/pokerfuse/status/1341090075925499907?s=19

    I'm not going to lie, that decision seems bonkers.
    It is free money for the state, US courts dont give much protection to UK businesses, especially in the betting industry.
    It the schitophrenic US attitude to gambling - where some US bank cards are blocked for paying for *anything* in a Las Vegas casino...
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205
    Alistair said:

    DavidL said:

    Alistair said:

    Not a great Christmas round at Paddy Powers....

    https://twitter.com/pokerfuse/status/1341090075925499907?s=19

    I'm not going to lie, that decision seems bonkers.
    I don't have much sympathy. The law was clear. What they were doing was illegal. They have to pay the consequences, no matter how bizarrely the penalty is calculated. Its not as if the money is going back to those who lost it. It is a fine. Tough.
    Oh, don't get me wrong. They are guilty as fuck and deserve the trebling but the initial calculation is absolute pants on head madness.
    If I was Flutter I'd be thinking twice about even trying to consider launching Betfair in the USA off the back of that decision. It is absolute madness.
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    That’s when they might split, quite easily. See how the Nats on here already divide between Sturgeon-admirers, and those who openly detest her.

    I'm surprised this seems to be flying under the radar so far. The sheer amount of vitriol being exchanged beteen the various nat factions is extordinary, the comments sectons on some nat blogs are like war zones. Sturgeon is public enemny number one with a good chunk of indy activists, who seem to regard her as some kind of unionist secret agent.
    Neither Eck or Nippy has given evidence to the inquiry yet. Even Murrell managed to contradict his wife, so will be interesting to see what her former best mate does.

    The SNP have been almost supernaturally fortunate in how Covid has wiped all this stuff off the headlines. Even the drugs death disaster was overtaken by SuperCovid. Quite extraordinary.
    Quite extraordinary how Unionists see Covid almost entirely through the lens of how it affects the preservation of their precious Union.
    Whereas you DON’T see every issue through the prism of Scottish independence? Oh for the gift to see ourselves....
    Who the fuck are you, newbie?
    Nerve. Touched.
    Caught knapping.

    (Have we done that one yet?)
  • 35%. BOOM.

    If this is true then I am a fucking genius and you must all send me fortnum and mason hampers:

    https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1341105518748856321?s=19
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    That’s when they might split, quite easily. See how the Nats on here already divide between Sturgeon-admirers, and those who openly detest her.

    I'm surprised this seems to be flying under the radar so far. The sheer amount of vitriol being exchanged beteen the various nat factions is extordinary, the comments sectons on some nat blogs are like war zones. Sturgeon is public enemny number one with a good chunk of indy activists, who seem to regard her as some kind of unionist secret agent.
    Neither Eck or Nippy has given evidence to the inquiry yet. Even Murrell managed to contradict his wife, so will be interesting to see what her former best mate does.

    The SNP have been almost supernaturally fortunate in how Covid has wiped all this stuff off the headlines. Even the drugs death disaster was overtaken by SuperCovid. Quite extraordinary.
    Quite extraordinary how Unionists see Covid almost entirely through the lens of how it affects the preservation of their precious Union.
    Whereas you DON’T see every issue through the prism of Scottish independence? Oh for the gift to see ourselves....
    Who the fuck are you, newbie?
    Nerve. Touched.
    As a 70 post, barely pierced virgin, you're obviously unaccustomed to the knockabout, robust style of PB.
    Man up, if you are indeed the possessor of XY chromosomes.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,449

    Who would it be a consulate to?

    Tibet considers itself still the rightful Government of all China unlike the rebellious Communist upstarts and not a separate nation do they not?
    My astrological lady friend who correctly predicted the horrors of 2020 (in 2019), and who now says 2021 will be WORSE, is also forecasting a war. Hmmmm.....
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,366
    kjh said:

    MaxPB said:

    I thought it was interesting Boris said 500k people have now had the vaccine.

    It's a good news story. Although given that was the number we were all working to *before* Saturday evening's briefing when we were then subsequently told it was 350k, I'm now wondering what's more likely:

    (a) it was indeed 350k on Saturday evening and they managed another 150k on Sunday and Monday (or just Monday?)
    (b) it was actually 500k all along and they merely got their stats wrong at the weekend
    (c) they don't really actually know the number at all.

    Or am I just reading too much into it (probably).

    I think option a is correct, the rate of vaccination is increasing. Anecdotally I can see it too with lots of older relatives getting their appointments. My sister's grandmother in law is 78 and has hers already so clearly the government are confident in getting the over 80s all done quite fast.
    My dad is 94 and not heard anything.
    A lot of it relates to GPs and how self starting they are. Mine is all fired up, got all the staff out setting up tape lines, notices etc.

    A practise nearby, which has been basically shut since COVID started - people can't contact them on the phone, shutters permanently down - has put up on their website they are *not* going to be a vaccination centre....

    Apparently the GP there at first claimed there wasn't space. Then the guy running the council sports centre next door offered that - vast place, empty... then the GP went errrrrrr..... trickkkkkkky.... silence.....

    Some people deserve a medal after this. Some people deserve a lead weight round the neck and a quick trip to check the bottom of Channel......
  • IanB2 said:

    MaxPB said:

    kjh said:

    MaxPB said:

    I thought it was interesting Boris said 500k people have now had the vaccine.

    It's a good news story. Although given that was the number we were all working to *before* Saturday evening's briefing when we were then subsequently told it was 350k, I'm now wondering what's more likely:

    (a) it was indeed 350k on Saturday evening and they managed another 150k on Sunday and Monday (or just Monday?)
    (b) it was actually 500k all along and they merely got their stats wrong at the weekend
    (c) they don't really actually know the number at all.

    Or am I just reading too much into it (probably).

    I think option a is correct, the rate of vaccination is increasing. Anecdotally I can see it too with lots of older relatives getting their appointments. My sister's grandmother in law is 78 and has hers already so clearly the government are confident in getting the over 80s all done quite fast.
    My dad is 94 and not heard anything.
    I'm sure the call will come soon. Maybe it depends on local capacity.
    I sense the few GP practices that have it are doing their own elderly patients first.
    Some GP surgeries that don't have the facilities are setting up hubs so it is a bit slower in those areas.
  • Relative might have COVID :(
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,129

    35%. BOOM.

    If this is true then I am a fucking genius and you must all send me fortnum and mason hampers:

    I would if I had any clue what those were.
  • Relative might have COVID :(

    Damn sorry old chap. Hope it all works out okay.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,390

    junius said:

    slade said:

    On the question of rich and poor parts of cities I remember an episode from my past. I took a group of American students from Durham down to London. They were all expecting the London of Westminster and the West End. As we pulled in to Kings Cross ( or was it Euston?) one of the students said 'It's just like Los Angeles.'

    If it was from Durham it would have been Kings Cross. Huge regeneration since then...
    It may well become the best place in London for the next couple of decades.
    King's Cross has always been the best place in London. It's where you leave from to head north.
    I proposed to my (now) wife on King's Cross Station - in 1968. Hoped the Buffet would be open as I wanted the least romantic venue. It was shut. So outside the Buffet on Platform 8 had to do. We are still together 62 years later.
    You're sure she didn't feel railroaded into it?
    You deserve to be no-platformed for that joke.
  • 35%. BOOM.

    If this is true then I am a fucking genius and you must all send me fortnum and mason hampers:

    https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1341105518748856321?s=19

    Is it going to end at 35%?

    Or is it inching towards 40%? Or the psychologically satisfying 50/50?

    If they've moved to 35 I'd have thought our next move would be to 50 then maybe end up at 40?
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,263
    edited December 2020

    kjh said:

    MaxPB said:

    I thought it was interesting Boris said 500k people have now had the vaccine.

    It's a good news story. Although given that was the number we were all working to *before* Saturday evening's briefing when we were then subsequently told it was 350k, I'm now wondering what's more likely:

    (a) it was indeed 350k on Saturday evening and they managed another 150k on Sunday and Monday (or just Monday?)
    (b) it was actually 500k all along and they merely got their stats wrong at the weekend
    (c) they don't really actually know the number at all.

    Or am I just reading too much into it (probably).

    I think option a is correct, the rate of vaccination is increasing. Anecdotally I can see it too with lots of older relatives getting their appointments. My sister's grandmother in law is 78 and has hers already so clearly the government are confident in getting the over 80s all done quite fast.
    My dad is 94 and not heard anything.
    A lot of it relates to GPs and how self starting they are. Mine is all fired up, got all the staff out setting up tape lines, notices etc.

    A practise nearby, which has been basically shut since COVID started - people can't contact them on the phone, shutters permanently down - has put up on their website they are *not* going to be a vaccination centre....

    Apparently the GP there at first claimed there wasn't space. Then the guy running the council sports centre next door offered that - vast place, empty... then the GP went errrrrrr..... trickkkkkkky.... silence.....

    Some people deserve a medal after this. Some people deserve a lead weight round the neck and a quick trip to check the bottom of Channel......
    Just heard our local GP practice has taken over the golf club for jabbing purposes. It'll be more spacious than the surgery, plenty of free parking and home-from-home for the docs. An imaginative solution.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Anecdote, not sure if @NickPalmer can corroborate this, but my dad had a phone call from a friend in Godalming (Waverley borough - Tier 2). He said it was absolutely heaving today. Assume people are travelling there from neighbouring Guildford (Tier 4).

    Family says hello from just over near Farnham!
    My grandparents lived in Farnham, it's a nice town, we used to visit them for our summer holidays when I was a kid (Frencham ponds, Birdworld, the Watercress Line were the highlights).
    I'm in Alton. I can hear (and even smell, at times) the trains from my house.
    Very jealous. Spent some of the happiest times of my life on the Watercress Line as a child. I still drag the kids along occasionally (my aunt still lives in Farnham and we can combine visiting her with a trip on the train).
    They've got a Hoover...

    https://preservation.watercressline.co.uk/stock/view/50027-class-50-lion
    I am just old enough to remember seeing that through Woking working the Salisbury/Exeter services. I was hoping that the new franchise contract would be won by someone wanting to replace the 159s with loco hauled services like they have on TPE. Alas, First got it and they don't care about the West of England line as it competes with their GWR franchise.
    Big rail news of the day is, the Exeter to Okehampton line is being reinstated.
  • IanB2 said:

    MaxPB said:

    kjh said:

    MaxPB said:

    I thought it was interesting Boris said 500k people have now had the vaccine.

    It's a good news story. Although given that was the number we were all working to *before* Saturday evening's briefing when we were then subsequently told it was 350k, I'm now wondering what's more likely:

    (a) it was indeed 350k on Saturday evening and they managed another 150k on Sunday and Monday (or just Monday?)
    (b) it was actually 500k all along and they merely got their stats wrong at the weekend
    (c) they don't really actually know the number at all.

    Or am I just reading too much into it (probably).

    I think option a is correct, the rate of vaccination is increasing. Anecdotally I can see it too with lots of older relatives getting their appointments. My sister's grandmother in law is 78 and has hers already so clearly the government are confident in getting the over 80s all done quite fast.
    My dad is 94 and not heard anything.
    I'm sure the call will come soon. Maybe it depends on local capacity.
    I sense the few GP practices that have it are doing their own elderly patients first.
    Some GP surgeries that don't have the facilities are setting up hubs so it is a bit slower in those areas.
    My local Surgery sent a message out via local village FB page today explaining that they and the neighbouring surgeries are combining their operations with a single call centre to contact all patients as and when they need to come in for a jab. They posted up the same priority list of 9 categories we have seen before and explained how many jabs they currently have available and how they are doing in terms of coverage. Also emphasised the issues with only being able to keep the vaccine for 3 days and the need to make sure people keep appointments.

    All seemed very professional and well organised.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,209
    kjh said:

    MaxPB said:

    I thought it was interesting Boris said 500k people have now had the vaccine.

    It's a good news story. Although given that was the number we were all working to *before* Saturday evening's briefing when we were then subsequently told it was 350k, I'm now wondering what's more likely:

    (a) it was indeed 350k on Saturday evening and they managed another 150k on Sunday and Monday (or just Monday?)
    (b) it was actually 500k all along and they merely got their stats wrong at the weekend
    (c) they don't really actually know the number at all.

    Or am I just reading too much into it (probably).

    I think option a is correct, the rate of vaccination is increasing. Anecdotally I can see it too with lots of older relatives getting their appointments. My sister's grandmother in law is 78 and has hers already so clearly the government are confident in getting the over 80s all done quite fast.
    My dad is 94 and not heard anything.
    He probably needs to replace the batteries in his hearing aid.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,449

    Relative might have COVID :(

    Sympathies. But remember 98% of infected people are fine, in the end.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    malcolmg said:

    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:
    Unionist desperation knows no bounds, tag team of the great clunking duffer and Bozo the Clown, independence will be at short odds for sure.
    Seems you are going to have a longer wait for indy2 with Brown and Starmer teaming up and refusing to support it through the HOC

    You seem to have got over your recent ‘blocking a referendum would be undemocratic’ spasm. Can we now expect you to participate in HYUFD’s baton wielding B Specials for the Union?
    I don't think indyref2 is legally dependent on a House of Commons mandate. If you read the legal arguments for a referendum, regardless of what Westminster thinks, it seems reasonably strong.

    Before anyone jumps in with 'that's what it says in law' I would point you to some of the complex arguments being advanced which may well by-pass Westminster.
    If Westminster refuses one it would have as much effect as the Catalan referendum in defiance of Madrid, ie none
    Spain is used to Franco authoritarianism.

    Britain is a proud centuries old democracy.

    If the mother of all Parliament's turns to Francoism then that would be to betray everything that is Great about Britain.
    Wrong, Spain never even allowed Catalonia one legal independence vote.

    Westminster allowed the Scots one in 2014, they voted 55% to stay in the UK in that 'once in a generation' referendum
    Under British Parliamentary Democracy there is an overriding principle quite rightly that No Parliament can bind it's successors.

    Whatever the Scottish voters elect in 2021 is their choice. Not yours. If that contradicts promises in 2014 so be it. That is why no Parliament can bind it's successors.

    Either you respect democracy or you do not. Democracy is not a once in a generation event.
    The Scottish referendum is in the sole purview of Westminster. It’s up to the Westminster parliament if they wish to grant it or not. They can take into account the composition of the Scottish Parliament if they do choose but it’s not the only factor
    Har Har, imagine you supporting colonial rule in a supposedly equal union , who would have believed it.
    Westminster is the combined parliaments of England & Scotland.

    It would be “colonial rule” as you put it if it was an English Parliament telling Scotland what to do
  • junius said:

    slade said:

    On the question of rich and poor parts of cities I remember an episode from my past. I took a group of American students from Durham down to London. They were all expecting the London of Westminster and the West End. As we pulled in to Kings Cross ( or was it Euston?) one of the students said 'It's just like Los Angeles.'

    If it was from Durham it would have been Kings Cross. Huge regeneration since then...
    It may well become the best place in London for the next couple of decades.
    King's Cross has always been the best place in London. It's where you leave from to head north.
    I proposed to my (now) wife on King's Cross Station - in 1968. Hoped the Buffet would be open as I wanted the least romantic venue. It was shut. So outside the Buffet on Platform 8 had to do. We are still together 62 years later.
    You're sure she didn't feel railroaded into it?
    You deserve to be no-platformed for that joke.
    He might be reaching the end of the line..
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,481
    Charles said:

    malcolmg said:

    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:
    Unionist desperation knows no bounds, tag team of the great clunking duffer and Bozo the Clown, independence will be at short odds for sure.
    Seems you are going to have a longer wait for indy2 with Brown and Starmer teaming up and refusing to support it through the HOC

    You seem to have got over your recent ‘blocking a referendum would be undemocratic’ spasm. Can we now expect you to participate in HYUFD’s baton wielding B Specials for the Union?
    I don't think indyref2 is legally dependent on a House of Commons mandate. If you read the legal arguments for a referendum, regardless of what Westminster thinks, it seems reasonably strong.

    Before anyone jumps in with 'that's what it says in law' I would point you to some of the complex arguments being advanced which may well by-pass Westminster.
    If Westminster refuses one it would have as much effect as the Catalan referendum in defiance of Madrid, ie none
    Spain is used to Franco authoritarianism.

    Britain is a proud centuries old democracy.

    If the mother of all Parliament's turns to Francoism then that would be to betray everything that is Great about Britain.
    Wrong, Spain never even allowed Catalonia one legal independence vote.

    Westminster allowed the Scots one in 2014, they voted 55% to stay in the UK in that 'once in a generation' referendum
    Under British Parliamentary Democracy there is an overriding principle quite rightly that No Parliament can bind it's successors.

    Whatever the Scottish voters elect in 2021 is their choice. Not yours. If that contradicts promises in 2014 so be it. That is why no Parliament can bind it's successors.

    Either you respect democracy or you do not. Democracy is not a once in a generation event.
    The Scottish referendum is in the sole purview of Westminster. It’s up to the Westminster parliament if they wish to grant it or not. They can take into account the composition of the Scottish Parliament if they do choose but it’s not the only factor
    Har Har, imagine you supporting colonial rule in a supposedly equal union , who would have believed it.
    Westminster is the combined parliaments of England & Scotland.

    It would be “colonial rule” as you put it if it was an English Parliament telling Scotland what to do
    Given that England cannot unilaterally leave the UK, and has no parliament to request a referendum, I'd say any inequality in this area is in Scotland's favour.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    edited December 2020

    Who would it be a consulate to?

    Tibet considers itself still the rightful Government of all China unlike the rebellious Communist upstarts and not a separate nation do they not?
    I think you’re getting confused with Taiwan, the Kuomintang republic formed by the government of Jiang Jieshi.

    Tibet argues it *is* a a separate nation from China.

    Edit - Taiwan doesn’t have a US embassy, as since the 1970s the US government has not formally recognised Taiwan, but it has what is called the ‘American Institute in Taiwan,’ which is a distinction without a difference.
  • Charles said:

    malcolmg said:

    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:
    Unionist desperation knows no bounds, tag team of the great clunking duffer and Bozo the Clown, independence will be at short odds for sure.
    Seems you are going to have a longer wait for indy2 with Brown and Starmer teaming up and refusing to support it through the HOC

    You seem to have got over your recent ‘blocking a referendum would be undemocratic’ spasm. Can we now expect you to participate in HYUFD’s baton wielding B Specials for the Union?
    I don't think indyref2 is legally dependent on a House of Commons mandate. If you read the legal arguments for a referendum, regardless of what Westminster thinks, it seems reasonably strong.

    Before anyone jumps in with 'that's what it says in law' I would point you to some of the complex arguments being advanced which may well by-pass Westminster.
    If Westminster refuses one it would have as much effect as the Catalan referendum in defiance of Madrid, ie none
    Spain is used to Franco authoritarianism.

    Britain is a proud centuries old democracy.

    If the mother of all Parliament's turns to Francoism then that would be to betray everything that is Great about Britain.
    Wrong, Spain never even allowed Catalonia one legal independence vote.

    Westminster allowed the Scots one in 2014, they voted 55% to stay in the UK in that 'once in a generation' referendum
    Under British Parliamentary Democracy there is an overriding principle quite rightly that No Parliament can bind it's successors.

    Whatever the Scottish voters elect in 2021 is their choice. Not yours. If that contradicts promises in 2014 so be it. That is why no Parliament can bind it's successors.

    Either you respect democracy or you do not. Democracy is not a once in a generation event.
    The Scottish referendum is in the sole purview of Westminster. It’s up to the Westminster parliament if they wish to grant it or not. They can take into account the composition of the Scottish Parliament if they do choose but it’s not the only factor
    Har Har, imagine you supporting colonial rule in a supposedly equal union , who would have believed it.
    Westminster is the combined parliaments of England & Scotland.

    It would be “colonial rule” as you put it if it was an English Parliament telling Scotland what to do
    So if Scottish MPs vote for a Scottish independence referendum, following Scottish MSPs doing then you will respect that?

    Or should the views of the Scots be discarded for the views of the English?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421

    Relative might have COVID :(

    That sucks. Three friends of mine have got it and are not at all well.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    ydoethur said:

    Who would it be a consulate to?

    Tibet considers itself still the rightful Government of all China unlike the rebellious Communist upstarts and not a separate nation do they not?
    I think you’re getting confused with Taiwan, the Kuomintang republic formed by the government of Jiang Jieshi.

    Tibet argues it *is* a a separate nation from China.
    A new low.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421

    junius said:

    slade said:

    On the question of rich and poor parts of cities I remember an episode from my past. I took a group of American students from Durham down to London. They were all expecting the London of Westminster and the West End. As we pulled in to Kings Cross ( or was it Euston?) one of the students said 'It's just like Los Angeles.'

    If it was from Durham it would have been Kings Cross. Huge regeneration since then...
    It may well become the best place in London for the next couple of decades.
    King's Cross has always been the best place in London. It's where you leave from to head north.
    I proposed to my (now) wife on King's Cross Station - in 1968. Hoped the Buffet would be open as I wanted the least romantic venue. It was shut. So outside the Buffet on Platform 8 had to do. We are still together 62 years later.
    You're sure she didn't feel railroaded into it?
    You deserve to be no-platformed for that joke.
    Can we just take a couple of minutes out of railway puns?
  • Charles said:

    malcolmg said:

    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:
    Unionist desperation knows no bounds, tag team of the great clunking duffer and Bozo the Clown, independence will be at short odds for sure.
    Seems you are going to have a longer wait for indy2 with Brown and Starmer teaming up and refusing to support it through the HOC

    You seem to have got over your recent ‘blocking a referendum would be undemocratic’ spasm. Can we now expect you to participate in HYUFD’s baton wielding B Specials for the Union?
    I don't think indyref2 is legally dependent on a House of Commons mandate. If you read the legal arguments for a referendum, regardless of what Westminster thinks, it seems reasonably strong.

    Before anyone jumps in with 'that's what it says in law' I would point you to some of the complex arguments being advanced which may well by-pass Westminster.
    If Westminster refuses one it would have as much effect as the Catalan referendum in defiance of Madrid, ie none
    Spain is used to Franco authoritarianism.

    Britain is a proud centuries old democracy.

    If the mother of all Parliament's turns to Francoism then that would be to betray everything that is Great about Britain.
    Wrong, Spain never even allowed Catalonia one legal independence vote.

    Westminster allowed the Scots one in 2014, they voted 55% to stay in the UK in that 'once in a generation' referendum
    Under British Parliamentary Democracy there is an overriding principle quite rightly that No Parliament can bind it's successors.

    Whatever the Scottish voters elect in 2021 is their choice. Not yours. If that contradicts promises in 2014 so be it. That is why no Parliament can bind it's successors.

    Either you respect democracy or you do not. Democracy is not a once in a generation event.
    The Scottish referendum is in the sole purview of Westminster. It’s up to the Westminster parliament if they wish to grant it or not. They can take into account the composition of the Scottish Parliament if they do choose but it’s not the only factor
    Har Har, imagine you supporting colonial rule in a supposedly equal union , who would have believed it.
    Westminster is the combined parliaments of England & Scotland.

    It would be “colonial rule” as you put it if it was an English Parliament telling Scotland what to do
    Perhaps the Scottish contingent of MPs could just decide to leave? They have greater authority than the local government at Holyrood. Personally I'd be sorry to see them go, but I'm rather surprised they haven't even considered it.
  • Relative might have COVID :(

    Sorry to hear that Horse
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421

    junius said:

    slade said:

    On the question of rich and poor parts of cities I remember an episode from my past. I took a group of American students from Durham down to London. They were all expecting the London of Westminster and the West End. As we pulled in to Kings Cross ( or was it Euston?) one of the students said 'It's just like Los Angeles.'

    If it was from Durham it would have been Kings Cross. Huge regeneration since then...
    It may well become the best place in London for the next couple of decades.
    King's Cross has always been the best place in London. It's where you leave from to head north.
    I proposed to my (now) wife on King's Cross Station - in 1968. Hoped the Buffet would be open as I wanted the least romantic venue. It was shut. So outside the Buffet on Platform 8 had to do. We are still together 62 years later.
    You're sure she didn't feel railroaded into it?
    You deserve to be no-platformed for that joke.
    He might be reaching the end of the line..
    Are you siding with Northern Al here?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,449
    Charles said:

    malcolmg said:

    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:
    Unionist desperation knows no bounds, tag team of the great clunking duffer and Bozo the Clown, independence will be at short odds for sure.
    Seems you are going to have a longer wait for indy2 with Brown and Starmer teaming up and refusing to support it through the HOC

    You seem to have got over your recent ‘blocking a referendum would be undemocratic’ spasm. Can we now expect you to participate in HYUFD’s baton wielding B Specials for the Union?
    I don't think indyref2 is legally dependent on a House of Commons mandate. If you read the legal arguments for a referendum, regardless of what Westminster thinks, it seems reasonably strong.

    Before anyone jumps in with 'that's what it says in law' I would point you to some of the complex arguments being advanced which may well by-pass Westminster.
    If Westminster refuses one it would have as much effect as the Catalan referendum in defiance of Madrid, ie none
    Spain is used to Franco authoritarianism.

    Britain is a proud centuries old democracy.

    If the mother of all Parliament's turns to Francoism then that would be to betray everything that is Great about Britain.
    Wrong, Spain never even allowed Catalonia one legal independence vote.

    Westminster allowed the Scots one in 2014, they voted 55% to stay in the UK in that 'once in a generation' referendum
    Under British Parliamentary Democracy there is an overriding principle quite rightly that No Parliament can bind it's successors.

    Whatever the Scottish voters elect in 2021 is their choice. Not yours. If that contradicts promises in 2014 so be it. That is why no Parliament can bind it's successors.

    Either you respect democracy or you do not. Democracy is not a once in a generation event.
    The Scottish referendum is in the sole purview of Westminster. It’s up to the Westminster parliament if they wish to grant it or not. They can take into account the composition of the Scottish Parliament if they do choose but it’s not the only factor
    Har Har, imagine you supporting colonial rule in a supposedly equal union , who would have believed it.
    Westminster is the combined parliaments of England & Scotland.

    It would be “colonial rule” as you put it if it was an English Parliament telling Scotland what to do
    Quite. The Commons is full of Scottish MPs. Not only that, these MPs get to vote on English laws, in areas where English MPs sometimes have no say in the same Scottish affairs (eg hunting). And England must sometimes endure Scottish prime ministers - Gordon Brown - whereas no English MP could ever be First Minister in Holyrood.

    The Scots get a fantastic deal in the Union.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    ydoethur said:

    junius said:

    slade said:

    On the question of rich and poor parts of cities I remember an episode from my past. I took a group of American students from Durham down to London. They were all expecting the London of Westminster and the West End. As we pulled in to Kings Cross ( or was it Euston?) one of the students said 'It's just like Los Angeles.'

    If it was from Durham it would have been Kings Cross. Huge regeneration since then...
    It may well become the best place in London for the next couple of decades.
    King's Cross has always been the best place in London. It's where you leave from to head north.
    I proposed to my (now) wife on King's Cross Station - in 1968. Hoped the Buffet would be open as I wanted the least romantic venue. It was shut. So outside the Buffet on Platform 8 had to do. We are still together 62 years later.
    You're sure she didn't feel railroaded into it?
    You deserve to be no-platformed for that joke.
    Can we just take a couple of minutes out of railway puns?
    What’s the point in coming here then
  • Relative might have COVID :(

    Best wishes.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,036

    junius said:

    slade said:

    On the question of rich and poor parts of cities I remember an episode from my past. I took a group of American students from Durham down to London. They were all expecting the London of Westminster and the West End. As we pulled in to Kings Cross ( or was it Euston?) one of the students said 'It's just like Los Angeles.'

    If it was from Durham it would have been Kings Cross. Huge regeneration since then...
    It may well become the best place in London for the next couple of decades.
    King's Cross has always been the best place in London. It's where you leave from to head north.
    I proposed to my (now) wife on King's Cross Station - in 1968. Hoped the Buffet would be open as I wanted the least romantic venue. It was shut. So outside the Buffet on Platform 8 had to do. We are still together 62 years later.
    You're sure she didn't feel railroaded into it?
    You deserve to be no-platformed for that joke.
    He might be reaching the end of the line..
    There's no need to derail the thread.
  • Leon said:

    Relative might have COVID :(

    Sympathies. But remember 98% of infected people are fine, in the end.
    Thanks, I hope they test negative! Fingers crossed
  • ydoethur said:

    Relative might have COVID :(

    That sucks. Three friends of mine have got it and are not at all well.
    Thanks.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    nichomar said:

    ydoethur said:

    junius said:

    slade said:

    On the question of rich and poor parts of cities I remember an episode from my past. I took a group of American students from Durham down to London. They were all expecting the London of Westminster and the West End. As we pulled in to Kings Cross ( or was it Euston?) one of the students said 'It's just like Los Angeles.'

    If it was from Durham it would have been Kings Cross. Huge regeneration since then...
    It may well become the best place in London for the next couple of decades.
    King's Cross has always been the best place in London. It's where you leave from to head north.
    I proposed to my (now) wife on King's Cross Station - in 1968. Hoped the Buffet would be open as I wanted the least romantic venue. It was shut. So outside the Buffet on Platform 8 had to do. We are still together 62 years later.
    You're sure she didn't feel railroaded into it?
    You deserve to be no-platformed for that joke.
    Can we just take a couple of minutes out of railway puns?
    What’s the point in coming here then
    Virtue signalling.
  • tlg86 said:

    Anecdote, not sure if @NickPalmer can corroborate this, but my dad had a phone call from a friend in Godalming (Waverley borough - Tier 2). He said it was absolutely heaving today. Assume people are travelling there from neighbouring Guildford (Tier 4).

    Family says hello from just over near Farnham!
    My grandparents lived in Farnham, it's a nice town, we used to visit them for our summer holidays when I was a kid (Frencham ponds, Birdworld, the Watercress Line were the highlights).
    I'm in Alton. I can hear (and even smell, at times) the trains from my house.
    Very jealous. Spent some of the happiest times of my life on the Watercress Line as a child. I still drag the kids along occasionally (my aunt still lives in Farnham and we can combine visiting her with a trip on the train).
    They've got a Hoover...

    https://preservation.watercressline.co.uk/stock/view/50027-class-50-lion
    Yes. I'd love to see a Deltic there one day.
  • Leon said:

    Charles said:

    malcolmg said:

    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:
    Unionist desperation knows no bounds, tag team of the great clunking duffer and Bozo the Clown, independence will be at short odds for sure.
    Seems you are going to have a longer wait for indy2 with Brown and Starmer teaming up and refusing to support it through the HOC

    You seem to have got over your recent ‘blocking a referendum would be undemocratic’ spasm. Can we now expect you to participate in HYUFD’s baton wielding B Specials for the Union?
    I don't think indyref2 is legally dependent on a House of Commons mandate. If you read the legal arguments for a referendum, regardless of what Westminster thinks, it seems reasonably strong.

    Before anyone jumps in with 'that's what it says in law' I would point you to some of the complex arguments being advanced which may well by-pass Westminster.
    If Westminster refuses one it would have as much effect as the Catalan referendum in defiance of Madrid, ie none
    Spain is used to Franco authoritarianism.

    Britain is a proud centuries old democracy.

    If the mother of all Parliament's turns to Francoism then that would be to betray everything that is Great about Britain.
    Wrong, Spain never even allowed Catalonia one legal independence vote.

    Westminster allowed the Scots one in 2014, they voted 55% to stay in the UK in that 'once in a generation' referendum
    Under British Parliamentary Democracy there is an overriding principle quite rightly that No Parliament can bind it's successors.

    Whatever the Scottish voters elect in 2021 is their choice. Not yours. If that contradicts promises in 2014 so be it. That is why no Parliament can bind it's successors.

    Either you respect democracy or you do not. Democracy is not a once in a generation event.
    The Scottish referendum is in the sole purview of Westminster. It’s up to the Westminster parliament if they wish to grant it or not. They can take into account the composition of the Scottish Parliament if they do choose but it’s not the only factor
    Har Har, imagine you supporting colonial rule in a supposedly equal union , who would have believed it.
    Westminster is the combined parliaments of England & Scotland.

    It would be “colonial rule” as you put it if it was an English Parliament telling Scotland what to do
    Quite. The Commons is full of Scottish MPs. Not only that, these MPs get to vote on English laws, in areas where English MPs sometimes have no say in the same Scottish affairs (eg hunting). And England must sometimes endure Scottish prime ministers - Gordon Brown - whereas no English MP could ever be First Minister in Holyrood.

    The Scots get a fantastic deal in the Union.
    That's up to Scottish voters to determine if we are to remain a democracy.

    If Scottish MPs vote for an independence referendum then that should be honoured on the principle no Parliament can bind its successors should it not? With English MPs respecting how the Scottish voters vote?

    Or are Scots nothing but serfs to bow down in servitude to their English betters in your eyes?
  • junius said:

    slade said:

    On the question of rich and poor parts of cities I remember an episode from my past. I took a group of American students from Durham down to London. They were all expecting the London of Westminster and the West End. As we pulled in to Kings Cross ( or was it Euston?) one of the students said 'It's just like Los Angeles.'

    If it was from Durham it would have been Kings Cross. Huge regeneration since then...
    It may well become the best place in London for the next couple of decades.
    King's Cross has always been the best place in London. It's where you leave from to head north.
    I proposed to my (now) wife on King's Cross Station - in 1968. Hoped the Buffet would be open as I wanted the least romantic venue. It was shut. So outside the Buffet on Platform 8 had to do. We are still together 62 years later.
    You're sure she didn't feel railroaded into it?
    You deserve to be no-platformed for that joke.
    He might be reaching the end of the line..
    Am I missing something

    My wife and I got engaged in Princess Street Gardens, Edinburgh 6 years earlier in 1962 and are still married 58 years later
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,449

    Leon said:

    Relative might have COVID :(

    Sympathies. But remember 98% of infected people are fine, in the end.
    Thanks, I hope they test negative! Fingers crossed
    Given the prevalence of covid in the UK, I imagine almost everyone now has a friend or relative with real or suspected coronavirus. That doesn’t make it easier, of course. Good luck to your fam
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,222

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    That’s when they might split, quite easily. See how the Nats on here already divide between Sturgeon-admirers, and those who openly detest her.

    I'm surprised this seems to be flying under the radar so far. The sheer amount of vitriol being exchanged beteen the various nat factions is extordinary, the comments sectons on some nat blogs are like war zones. Sturgeon is public enemny number one with a good chunk of indy activists, who seem to regard her as some kind of unionist secret agent.
    Neither Eck or Nippy has given evidence to the inquiry yet. Even Murrell managed to contradict his wife, so will be interesting to see what her former best mate does.

    The SNP have been almost supernaturally fortunate in how Covid has wiped all this stuff off the headlines. Even the drugs death disaster was overtaken by SuperCovid. Quite extraordinary.
    Quite extraordinary how Unionists see Covid almost entirely through the lens of how it affects the preservation of their precious Union.
    Whereas you DON’T see every issue through the prism of Scottish independence? Oh for the gift to see ourselves....
    Who the fuck are you, newbie?
    Nerve. Touched.
    As a 70 post, barely pierced virgin, you're obviously unaccustomed to the knockabout, robust style of PB.
    Man up, if you are indeed the possessor of XY chromosomes.
    Caught him knapping there.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,681
    edited December 2020

    kjh said:

    MaxPB said:

    I thought it was interesting Boris said 500k people have now had the vaccine.

    It's a good news story. Although given that was the number we were all working to *before* Saturday evening's briefing when we were then subsequently told it was 350k, I'm now wondering what's more likely:

    (a) it was indeed 350k on Saturday evening and they managed another 150k on Sunday and Monday (or just Monday?)
    (b) it was actually 500k all along and they merely got their stats wrong at the weekend
    (c) they don't really actually know the number at all.

    Or am I just reading too much into it (probably).

    I think option a is correct, the rate of vaccination is increasing. Anecdotally I can see it too with lots of older relatives getting their appointments. My sister's grandmother in law is 78 and has hers already so clearly the government are confident in getting the over 80s all done quite fast.
    My dad is 94 and not heard anything.
    A lot of it relates to GPs and how self starting they are. Mine is all fired up, got all the staff out setting up tape lines, notices etc.

    A practise nearby, which has been basically shut since COVID started - people can't contact them on the phone, shutters permanently down - has put up on their website they are *not* going to be a vaccination centre....

    Apparently the GP there at first claimed there wasn't space. Then the guy running the council sports centre next door offered that - vast place, empty... then the GP went errrrrrr..... trickkkkkkky.... silence.....

    Some people deserve a medal after this. Some people deserve a lead weight round the neck and a quick trip to check the bottom of Channel......
    I'd put our local one nearer the bad than the good. They've really not been on the ball.

    No news yet for elderly relatives (86, 89), none of whom had their yearly check-ups. Flu vaccines were done inside and the door entry was not well organised.

    GPs seem to be very patchy. All it would take to sort things is someone with a bit of initiative.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,209

    Whom is this 'Sean'? :lol:

    Sean was previously LadyG, he's joined about five million times under different accounts. He lives a very sad life, it seems.
    CBH: you know the rules. Abide by them or be banned.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,036
    ydoethur said:

    junius said:

    slade said:

    On the question of rich and poor parts of cities I remember an episode from my past. I took a group of American students from Durham down to London. They were all expecting the London of Westminster and the West End. As we pulled in to Kings Cross ( or was it Euston?) one of the students said 'It's just like Los Angeles.'

    If it was from Durham it would have been Kings Cross. Huge regeneration since then...
    It may well become the best place in London for the next couple of decades.
    King's Cross has always been the best place in London. It's where you leave from to head north.
    I proposed to my (now) wife on King's Cross Station - in 1968. Hoped the Buffet would be open as I wanted the least romantic venue. It was shut. So outside the Buffet on Platform 8 had to do. We are still together 62 years later.
    You're sure she didn't feel railroaded into it?
    You deserve to be no-platformed for that joke.
    He might be reaching the end of the line..
    Are you siding with Northern Al here?
    Are you suggesting some sort of coupling?
  • ydoethur said:

    Who would it be a consulate to?

    Tibet considers itself still the rightful Government of all China unlike the rebellious Communist upstarts and not a separate nation do they not?
    I think you’re getting confused with Taiwan, the Kuomintang republic formed by the government of Jiang Jieshi.

    Tibet argues it *is* a a separate nation from China.

    Edit - Taiwan doesn’t have a US embassy, as since the 1970s the US government has not formally recognised Taiwan, but it has what is called the ‘American Institute in Taiwan,’ which is a distinction without a difference.
    Oops. 🤦🏻‍♂️

    Silly me.
  • rcs1000 said:

    Whom is this 'Sean'? :lol:

    Sean was previously LadyG, he's joined about five million times under different accounts. He lives a very sad life, it seems.
    CBH: you know the rules. Abide by them or be banned.
    Understood. I offer my full apology to anyone I’ve upset with my posting on this topic. Message received loud and clear.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,390
    ydoethur said:

    junius said:

    slade said:

    On the question of rich and poor parts of cities I remember an episode from my past. I took a group of American students from Durham down to London. They were all expecting the London of Westminster and the West End. As we pulled in to Kings Cross ( or was it Euston?) one of the students said 'It's just like Los Angeles.'

    If it was from Durham it would have been Kings Cross. Huge regeneration since then...
    It may well become the best place in London for the next couple of decades.
    King's Cross has always been the best place in London. It's where you leave from to head north.
    I proposed to my (now) wife on King's Cross Station - in 1968. Hoped the Buffet would be open as I wanted the least romantic venue. It was shut. So outside the Buffet on Platform 8 had to do. We are still together 62 years later.
    You're sure she didn't feel railroaded into it?
    You deserve to be no-platformed for that joke.
    He might be reaching the end of the line..
    Are you siding with Northern Al here?
    While you're here ydoethur, did you see this pretty lurid account of high-level dodginess at a free school? It stinks - not quite sure what they're doing paying over £14K to an outfit linked to Claire Fox, among other misdemeanours. Of course no heads (sic) will roll.

    https://schoolsweek.co.uk/former-cameron-advisers-free-school-rapped-over-improper-appointment-of-principals-friends/
  • Charles said:

    malcolmg said:

    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:
    Unionist desperation knows no bounds, tag team of the great clunking duffer and Bozo the Clown, independence will be at short odds for sure.
    Seems you are going to have a longer wait for indy2 with Brown and Starmer teaming up and refusing to support it through the HOC

    You seem to have got over your recent ‘blocking a referendum would be undemocratic’ spasm. Can we now expect you to participate in HYUFD’s baton wielding B Specials for the Union?
    I don't think indyref2 is legally dependent on a House of Commons mandate. If you read the legal arguments for a referendum, regardless of what Westminster thinks, it seems reasonably strong.

    Before anyone jumps in with 'that's what it says in law' I would point you to some of the complex arguments being advanced which may well by-pass Westminster.
    If Westminster refuses one it would have as much effect as the Catalan referendum in defiance of Madrid, ie none
    Spain is used to Franco authoritarianism.

    Britain is a proud centuries old democracy.

    If the mother of all Parliament's turns to Francoism then that would be to betray everything that is Great about Britain.
    Wrong, Spain never even allowed Catalonia one legal independence vote.

    Westminster allowed the Scots one in 2014, they voted 55% to stay in the UK in that 'once in a generation' referendum
    Under British Parliamentary Democracy there is an overriding principle quite rightly that No Parliament can bind it's successors.

    Whatever the Scottish voters elect in 2021 is their choice. Not yours. If that contradicts promises in 2014 so be it. That is why no Parliament can bind it's successors.

    Either you respect democracy or you do not. Democracy is not a once in a generation event.
    The Scottish referendum is in the sole purview of Westminster. It’s up to the Westminster parliament if they wish to grant it or not. They can take into account the composition of the Scottish Parliament if they do choose but it’s not the only factor
    Har Har, imagine you supporting colonial rule in a supposedly equal union , who would have believed it.
    Westminster is the combined parliaments of England & Scotland.

    It would be “colonial rule” as you put it if it was an English Parliament telling Scotland what to do
    Given that England cannot unilaterally leave the UK, and has no parliament to request a referendum, I'd say any inequality in this area is in Scotland's favour.
    Of course England could unilaterally leave the UK if it voted to do so.

    A simple majority of MPs could pass a bill to do that. That could be elected with England only MPs.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421

    ydoethur said:

    junius said:

    slade said:

    On the question of rich and poor parts of cities I remember an episode from my past. I took a group of American students from Durham down to London. They were all expecting the London of Westminster and the West End. As we pulled in to Kings Cross ( or was it Euston?) one of the students said 'It's just like Los Angeles.'

    If it was from Durham it would have been Kings Cross. Huge regeneration since then...
    It may well become the best place in London for the next couple of decades.
    King's Cross has always been the best place in London. It's where you leave from to head north.
    I proposed to my (now) wife on King's Cross Station - in 1968. Hoped the Buffet would be open as I wanted the least romantic venue. It was shut. So outside the Buffet on Platform 8 had to do. We are still together 62 years later.
    You're sure she didn't feel railroaded into it?
    You deserve to be no-platformed for that joke.
    He might be reaching the end of the line..
    Are you siding with Northern Al here?
    Are you suggesting some sort of coupling?
    *Raises eyebrows*

    I was certainly not suggesting such a thing. You are on the wrong line altogether.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    Relative might have COVID :(

    Best wishes to them

    My lad late 20's had it and he has some underlying health issues - he felt pretty rough for 48 hours but then the worst was over.

    Ironically it seems he caught it at hospital when he was in for (day) treatment
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,884
    IshmaelZ said:

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Anecdote, not sure if @NickPalmer can corroborate this, but my dad had a phone call from a friend in Godalming (Waverley borough - Tier 2). He said it was absolutely heaving today. Assume people are travelling there from neighbouring Guildford (Tier 4).

    Family says hello from just over near Farnham!
    My grandparents lived in Farnham, it's a nice town, we used to visit them for our summer holidays when I was a kid (Frencham ponds, Birdworld, the Watercress Line were the highlights).
    I'm in Alton. I can hear (and even smell, at times) the trains from my house.
    Very jealous. Spent some of the happiest times of my life on the Watercress Line as a child. I still drag the kids along occasionally (my aunt still lives in Farnham and we can combine visiting her with a trip on the train).
    They've got a Hoover...

    https://preservation.watercressline.co.uk/stock/view/50027-class-50-lion
    I am just old enough to remember seeing that through Woking working the Salisbury/Exeter services. I was hoping that the new franchise contract would be won by someone wanting to replace the 159s with loco hauled services like they have on TPE. Alas, First got it and they don't care about the West of England line as it competes with their GWR franchise.
    Big rail news of the day is, the Exeter to Okehampton line is being reinstated.
    The one over the wrought iron Meldon viaduct? I made a pilgrimage to see it a few years back.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    junius said:

    slade said:

    On the question of rich and poor parts of cities I remember an episode from my past. I took a group of American students from Durham down to London. They were all expecting the London of Westminster and the West End. As we pulled in to Kings Cross ( or was it Euston?) one of the students said 'It's just like Los Angeles.'

    If it was from Durham it would have been Kings Cross. Huge regeneration since then...
    It may well become the best place in London for the next couple of decades.
    King's Cross has always been the best place in London. It's where you leave from to head north.
    I proposed to my (now) wife on King's Cross Station - in 1968. Hoped the Buffet would be open as I wanted the least romantic venue. It was shut. So outside the Buffet on Platform 8 had to do. We are still together 62 years later.
    You're sure she didn't feel railroaded into it?
    You deserve to be no-platformed for that joke.
    He might be reaching the end of the line..
    Are you siding with Northern Al here?
    Are you suggesting some sort of coupling?
    *Raises eyebrows*

    I was certainly not suggesting such a thing. You are on the wrong line altogether.
    Please god, make it stop :smiley:
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,884

    junius said:

    slade said:

    On the question of rich and poor parts of cities I remember an episode from my past. I took a group of American students from Durham down to London. They were all expecting the London of Westminster and the West End. As we pulled in to Kings Cross ( or was it Euston?) one of the students said 'It's just like Los Angeles.'

    If it was from Durham it would have been Kings Cross. Huge regeneration since then...
    It may well become the best place in London for the next couple of decades.
    King's Cross has always been the best place in London. It's where you leave from to head north.
    I proposed to my (now) wife on King's Cross Station - in 1968. Hoped the Buffet would be open as I wanted the least romantic venue. It was shut. So outside the Buffet on Platform 8 had to do. We are still together 62 years later.
    Never mind your beloved - you should have been on the end of the platform swooning over the Deltics!
    Ah, memories.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421

    ydoethur said:

    junius said:

    slade said:

    On the question of rich and poor parts of cities I remember an episode from my past. I took a group of American students from Durham down to London. They were all expecting the London of Westminster and the West End. As we pulled in to Kings Cross ( or was it Euston?) one of the students said 'It's just like Los Angeles.'

    If it was from Durham it would have been Kings Cross. Huge regeneration since then...
    It may well become the best place in London for the next couple of decades.
    King's Cross has always been the best place in London. It's where you leave from to head north.
    I proposed to my (now) wife on King's Cross Station - in 1968. Hoped the Buffet would be open as I wanted the least romantic venue. It was shut. So outside the Buffet on Platform 8 had to do. We are still together 62 years later.
    You're sure she didn't feel railroaded into it?
    You deserve to be no-platformed for that joke.
    He might be reaching the end of the line..
    Are you siding with Northern Al here?
    While you're here ydoethur, did you see this pretty lurid account of high-level dodginess at a free school? It stinks - not quite sure what they're doing paying over £14K to an outfit linked to Claire Fox, among other misdemeanours. Of course no heads (sic) will roll.

    https://schoolsweek.co.uk/former-cameron-advisers-free-school-rapped-over-improper-appointment-of-principals-friends/
    Bloody hell. That’s really bad. As in, prosecutions should follow if the article is anywhere near accurate.

    I haven’t read such a catalogue of corruption, incompetence and embezzlement since the last time I looked at OFSTED’s appointment processes.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,036
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    junius said:

    slade said:

    On the question of rich and poor parts of cities I remember an episode from my past. I took a group of American students from Durham down to London. They were all expecting the London of Westminster and the West End. As we pulled in to Kings Cross ( or was it Euston?) one of the students said 'It's just like Los Angeles.'

    If it was from Durham it would have been Kings Cross. Huge regeneration since then...
    It may well become the best place in London for the next couple of decades.
    King's Cross has always been the best place in London. It's where you leave from to head north.
    I proposed to my (now) wife on King's Cross Station - in 1968. Hoped the Buffet would be open as I wanted the least romantic venue. It was shut. So outside the Buffet on Platform 8 had to do. We are still together 62 years later.
    You're sure she didn't feel railroaded into it?
    You deserve to be no-platformed for that joke.
    He might be reaching the end of the line..
    Are you siding with Northern Al here?
    Are you suggesting some sort of coupling?
    *Raises eyebrows*

    I was certainly not suggesting such a thing. You are on the wrong line altogether.
    I think my railway punning has hit the buffers.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Who would it be a consulate to?

    Tibet considers itself still the rightful Government of all China unlike the rebellious Communist upstarts and not a separate nation do they not?
    Consulates are subordinate to an embassy. We have them in Dallas, SF, etc
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300

    tlg86 said:

    Anecdote, not sure if @NickPalmer can corroborate this, but my dad had a phone call from a friend in Godalming (Waverley borough - Tier 2). He said it was absolutely heaving today. Assume people are travelling there from neighbouring Guildford (Tier 4).

    Family says hello from just over near Farnham!
    My grandparents lived in Farnham, it's a nice town, we used to visit them for our summer holidays when I was a kid (Frencham ponds, Birdworld, the Watercress Line were the highlights).
    I'm in Alton. I can hear (and even smell, at times) the trains from my house.
    Very jealous. Spent some of the happiest times of my life on the Watercress Line as a child. I still drag the kids along occasionally (my aunt still lives in Farnham and we can combine visiting her with a trip on the train).
    They've got a Hoover...

    https://preservation.watercressline.co.uk/stock/view/50027-class-50-lion
    Yes. I'd love to see a Deltic there one day.
    East Lancs Railway had 5 Deltics in Oct 2011.

    Mid Hants Line has a S&DJR 7F. Will be interesting to see and hear it deal with those hills.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164
    kle4 said:

    35%. BOOM.

    If this is true then I am a fucking genius and you must all send me fortnum and mason hampers:

    I would if I had any clue what those were.
    If you have no clue you definitely can't afford them!
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,884
    Floater said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    junius said:

    slade said:

    On the question of rich and poor parts of cities I remember an episode from my past. I took a group of American students from Durham down to London. They were all expecting the London of Westminster and the West End. As we pulled in to Kings Cross ( or was it Euston?) one of the students said 'It's just like Los Angeles.'

    If it was from Durham it would have been Kings Cross. Huge regeneration since then...
    It may well become the best place in London for the next couple of decades.
    King's Cross has always been the best place in London. It's where you leave from to head north.
    I proposed to my (now) wife on King's Cross Station - in 1968. Hoped the Buffet would be open as I wanted the least romantic venue. It was shut. So outside the Buffet on Platform 8 had to do. We are still together 62 years later.
    You're sure she didn't feel railroaded into it?
    You deserve to be no-platformed for that joke.
    He might be reaching the end of the line..
    Are you siding with Northern Al here?
    Are you suggesting some sort of coupling?
    *Raises eyebrows*

    I was certainly not suggesting such a thing. You are on the wrong line altogether.
    Please god, make it stop :smiley:
    Well, it will at the buffers. Unless there is an injector to replenish the humour.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,700
    Very bad headline for Boris in the Daily Mail: "I'm sorry I haven't a clue - Boris blusters his way through pointless press conference without giving a single answer about when truckers will be allowed into France".

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9073729/Britains-supermarket-shelves-Frances-Covid-ban-British-truckers.html
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,884
    dr_spyn said:

    tlg86 said:

    Anecdote, not sure if @NickPalmer can corroborate this, but my dad had a phone call from a friend in Godalming (Waverley borough - Tier 2). He said it was absolutely heaving today. Assume people are travelling there from neighbouring Guildford (Tier 4).

    Family says hello from just over near Farnham!
    My grandparents lived in Farnham, it's a nice town, we used to visit them for our summer holidays when I was a kid (Frencham ponds, Birdworld, the Watercress Line were the highlights).
    I'm in Alton. I can hear (and even smell, at times) the trains from my house.
    Very jealous. Spent some of the happiest times of my life on the Watercress Line as a child. I still drag the kids along occasionally (my aunt still lives in Farnham and we can combine visiting her with a trip on the train).
    They've got a Hoover...

    https://preservation.watercressline.co.uk/stock/view/50027-class-50-lion
    Yes. I'd love to see a Deltic there one day.
    East Lancs Railway had 5 Deltics in Oct 2011.

    Mid Hants Line has a S&DJR 7F. Will be interesting to see and hear it deal with those hills.
    Didn't they cope with that hill-cum-tunnel out of Green Park in Bath?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,859
    Leon said:

    Charles said:

    malcolmg said:

    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:
    Unionist desperation knows no bounds, tag team of the great clunking duffer and Bozo the Clown, independence will be at short odds for sure.
    Seems you are going to have a longer wait for indy2 with Brown and Starmer teaming up and refusing to support it through the HOC

    You seem to have got over your recent ‘blocking a referendum would be undemocratic’ spasm. Can we now expect you to participate in HYUFD’s baton wielding B Specials for the Union?
    I don't think indyref2 is legally dependent on a House of Commons mandate. If you read the legal arguments for a referendum, regardless of what Westminster thinks, it seems reasonably strong.

    Before anyone jumps in with 'that's what it says in law' I would point you to some of the complex arguments being advanced which may well by-pass Westminster.
    If Westminster refuses one it would have as much effect as the Catalan referendum in defiance of Madrid, ie none
    Spain is used to Franco authoritarianism.

    Britain is a proud centuries old democracy.

    If the mother of all Parliament's turns to Francoism then that would be to betray everything that is Great about Britain.
    Wrong, Spain never even allowed Catalonia one legal independence vote.

    Westminster allowed the Scots one in 2014, they voted 55% to stay in the UK in that 'once in a generation' referendum
    Under British Parliamentary Democracy there is an overriding principle quite rightly that No Parliament can bind it's successors.

    Whatever the Scottish voters elect in 2021 is their choice. Not yours. If that contradicts promises in 2014 so be it. That is why no Parliament can bind it's successors.

    Either you respect democracy or you do not. Democracy is not a once in a generation event.
    The Scottish referendum is in the sole purview of Westminster. It’s up to the Westminster parliament if they wish to grant it or not. They can take into account the composition of the Scottish Parliament if they do choose but it’s not the only factor
    Har Har, imagine you supporting colonial rule in a supposedly equal union , who would have believed it.
    Westminster is the combined parliaments of England & Scotland.

    It would be “colonial rule” as you put it if it was an English Parliament telling Scotland what to do
    Quite. The Commons is full of Scottish MPs. Not only that, these MPs get to vote on English laws, in areas where English MPs sometimes have no say in the same Scottish affairs (eg hunting). And England must sometimes endure Scottish prime ministers - Gordon Brown - whereas no English MP could ever be First Minister in Holyrood.

    The Scots get a fantastic deal in the Union.
    You think that having another 129 parasites is a good thing? Well, its a view.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,449
    edited December 2020

    Leon said:

    Charles said:

    malcolmg said:

    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:
    Unionist desperation knows no bounds, tag team of the great clunking duffer and Bozo the Clown, independence will be at short odds for sure.
    Seems you are going to have a longer wait for indy2 with Brown and Starmer teaming up and refusing to support it through the HOC

    You seem to have got over your recent ‘blocking a referendum would be undemocratic’ spasm. Can we now expect you to participate in HYUFD’s baton wielding B Specials for the Union?
    I don't think indyref2 is legally dependent on a House of Commons mandate. If you read the legal arguments for a referendum, regardless of what Westminster thinks, it seems reasonably strong.

    Before anyone jumps in with 'that's what it says in law' I would point you to some of the complex arguments being advanced which may well by-pass Westminster.
    If Westminster refuses one it would have as much effect as the Catalan referendum in defiance of Madrid, ie none
    Spain is used to Franco authoritarianism.

    Britain is a proud centuries old democracy.

    If the mother of all Parliament's turns to Francoism then that would be to betray everything that is Great about Britain.
    Wrong, Spain never even allowed Catalonia one legal independence vote.

    Westminster allowed the Scots one in 2014, they voted 55% to stay in the UK in that 'once in a generation' referendum
    Under British Parliamentary Democracy there is an overriding principle quite rightly that No Parliament can bind it's successors.

    Whatever the Scottish voters elect in 2021 is their choice. Not yours. If that contradicts promises in 2014 so be it. That is why no Parliament can bind it's successors.

    Either you respect democracy or you do not. Democracy is not a once in a generation event.
    The Scottish referendum is in the sole purview of Westminster. It’s up to the Westminster parliament if they wish to grant it or not. They can take into account the composition of the Scottish Parliament if they do choose but it’s not the only factor
    Har Har, imagine you supporting colonial rule in a supposedly equal union , who would have believed it.
    Westminster is the combined parliaments of England & Scotland.

    It would be “colonial rule” as you put it if it was an English Parliament telling Scotland what to do
    Quite. The Commons is full of Scottish MPs. Not only that, these MPs get to vote on English laws, in areas where English MPs sometimes have no say in the same Scottish affairs (eg hunting). And England must sometimes endure Scottish prime ministers - Gordon Brown - whereas no English MP could ever be First Minister in Holyrood.

    The Scots get a fantastic deal in the Union.
    That's up to Scottish voters to determine if we are to remain a democracy.

    If Scottish MPs vote for an independence referendum then that should be honoured on the principle no Parliament can bind its successors should it not? With English MPs respecting how the Scottish voters vote?

    Or are Scots nothing but serfs to bow down in servitude to their English betters in your eyes?
    This is hyperbole. Scots were rightly given a referendum in 2014. The UK is a union of equals and the question had to be posed once the SNP got a majority in Holyrood. So the question was asked.

    But the Scots said No. By a significant margin (more than Brexit).

    No country made up of constituent nations can allow its member nations the right to call a referendum on secession whenever any one nation likes, otherwise there would be perpetual constitutional turbulence - and consequent economic damage to all parties - and the SNP could call a vote every week until they finally win.

    The right to call a referendum is correctly reserved for the combined UK government at Westminster, where Scots are properly represented, alongside the English, Welsh and Northern Irish. If the UK parliament decides it is too soon for the question to be posed again (and I think it is) then that is that.

    There will be another indyref. As there was a 2nd Quebec referendum. But something like a generation should elapse between the votes, as happened in Quebec also.

    2030 feels about right, to me. You are free to differ but I find your moral outrage a bit overblown.

  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,884
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Charles said:

    malcolmg said:

    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:
    Unionist desperation knows no bounds, tag team of the great clunking duffer and Bozo the Clown, independence will be at short odds for sure.
    Seems you are going to have a longer wait for indy2 with Brown and Starmer teaming up and refusing to support it through the HOC

    You seem to have got over your recent ‘blocking a referendum would be undemocratic’ spasm. Can we now expect you to participate in HYUFD’s baton wielding B Specials for the Union?
    I don't think indyref2 is legally dependent on a House of Commons mandate. If you read the legal arguments for a referendum, regardless of what Westminster thinks, it seems reasonably strong.

    Before anyone jumps in with 'that's what it says in law' I would point you to some of the complex arguments being advanced which may well by-pass Westminster.
    If Westminster refuses one it would have as much effect as the Catalan referendum in defiance of Madrid, ie none
    Spain is used to Franco authoritarianism.

    Britain is a proud centuries old democracy.

    If the mother of all Parliament's turns to Francoism then that would be to betray everything that is Great about Britain.
    Wrong, Spain never even allowed Catalonia one legal independence vote.

    Westminster allowed the Scots one in 2014, they voted 55% to stay in the UK in that 'once in a generation' referendum
    Under British Parliamentary Democracy there is an overriding principle quite rightly that No Parliament can bind it's successors.

    Whatever the Scottish voters elect in 2021 is their choice. Not yours. If that contradicts promises in 2014 so be it. That is why no Parliament can bind it's successors.

    Either you respect democracy or you do not. Democracy is not a once in a generation event.
    The Scottish referendum is in the sole purview of Westminster. It’s up to the Westminster parliament if they wish to grant it or not. They can take into account the composition of the Scottish Parliament if they do choose but it’s not the only factor
    Har Har, imagine you supporting colonial rule in a supposedly equal union , who would have believed it.
    Westminster is the combined parliaments of England & Scotland.

    It would be “colonial rule” as you put it if it was an English Parliament telling Scotland what to do
    Quite. The Commons is full of Scottish MPs. Not only that, these MPs get to vote on English laws, in areas where English MPs sometimes have no say in the same Scottish affairs (eg hunting). And England must sometimes endure Scottish prime ministers - Gordon Brown - whereas no English MP could ever be First Minister in Holyrood.

    The Scots get a fantastic deal in the Union.
    That's up to Scottish voters to determine if we are to remain a democracy.

    If Scottish MPs vote for an independence referendum then that should be honoured on the principle no Parliament can bind its successors should it not? With English MPs respecting how the Scottish voters vote?

    Or are Scots nothing but serfs to bow down in servitude to their English betters in your eyes?
    This is hyperbole. Scots were rightly given a referendum in 2014. The UK is a union of equals and the question had to be posed once the SNP got a majority in Holyrood. So the question was asked.

    But the Scots said No. By a significant margin (more than Brexit).

    No country made up of constituent nations can allow its member nations the right to call a referendum on secession whenever it likes, otherwise there would be perpetual constitutional turbulence - and consequent economic damage to all parties - and the SNP could call a vote every week until they finally win.

    The right to call a referendum is correctly reserved for the combined UK government at Westminster, where Scots are properly represented, alongside the English, Welsh and Northern Irish. If the UK parliament decides it is too soon for the question to be posed again (and I think it is) then that is that.

    There will be another indyref. As there was a 2nd Quebec referendum. But something like a generation should elapse between the votes, as happened in Quebec also.

    2030 feels about right, to me. You are free to differ but I find your moral outrage a bit overblown.

    That would be credible but for Brexit. About which the Unionist side lied repeatedly and loudly (whether deliberately or not is a good question).
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    rcs1000 said:

    Whom is this 'Sean'? :lol:

    Sean was previously LadyG, he's joined about five million times under different accounts. He lives a very sad life, it seems.
    CBH: you know the rules. Abide by them or be banned.
    Is the stick being brandished for outing a poster for using an alias, or for mudslinging? Because the latter takes place with complete abandon on here.

    Anyway, we seem to have got almost all the way through the day without any novel catastrophes occurring. I'm astonished.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    Carnyx said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Anecdote, not sure if @NickPalmer can corroborate this, but my dad had a phone call from a friend in Godalming (Waverley borough - Tier 2). He said it was absolutely heaving today. Assume people are travelling there from neighbouring Guildford (Tier 4).

    Family says hello from just over near Farnham!
    My grandparents lived in Farnham, it's a nice town, we used to visit them for our summer holidays when I was a kid (Frencham ponds, Birdworld, the Watercress Line were the highlights).
    I'm in Alton. I can hear (and even smell, at times) the trains from my house.
    Very jealous. Spent some of the happiest times of my life on the Watercress Line as a child. I still drag the kids along occasionally (my aunt still lives in Farnham and we can combine visiting her with a trip on the train).
    They've got a Hoover...

    https://preservation.watercressline.co.uk/stock/view/50027-class-50-lion
    I am just old enough to remember seeing that through Woking working the Salisbury/Exeter services. I was hoping that the new franchise contract would be won by someone wanting to replace the 159s with loco hauled services like they have on TPE. Alas, First got it and they don't care about the West of England line as it competes with their GWR franchise.
    Big rail news of the day is, the Exeter to Okehampton line is being reinstated.
    The one over the wrought iron Meldon viaduct? I made a pilgrimage to see it a few years back.
    The Ashington and Blyth is also scheduled to be reopened.

    But Okehampton is more interesting. I wonder if this is the first stage of reopening the line to Plymouth through Tavistock. The track would need to be reinstated and I think in one place it might need diverting but it would make sense on a huge number of levels.

    Oh, and Sunil must be in an agony of ecstasy tonight.
  • Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    That’s when they might split, quite easily. See how the Nats on here already divide between Sturgeon-admirers, and those who openly detest her.

    I'm surprised this seems to be flying under the radar so far. The sheer amount of vitriol being exchanged beteen the various nat factions is extordinary, the comments sectons on some nat blogs are like war zones. Sturgeon is public enemny number one with a good chunk of indy activists, who seem to regard her as some kind of unionist secret agent.
    Neither Eck or Nippy has given evidence to the inquiry yet. Even Murrell managed to contradict his wife, so will be interesting to see what her former best mate does.

    The SNP have been almost supernaturally fortunate in how Covid has wiped all this stuff off the headlines. Even the drugs death disaster was overtaken by SuperCovid. Quite extraordinary.
    Quite extraordinary how Unionists see Covid almost entirely through the lens of how it affects the preservation of their precious Union.
    Whereas you DON’T see every issue through the prism of Scottish independence? Oh for the gift to see ourselves....
    Who the fuck are you, newbie?
    Nerve. Touched.
    As a 70 post, barely pierced virgin, you're obviously unaccustomed to the knockabout, robust style of PB.
    Man up, if you are indeed the possessor of XY chromosomes.
    Caught him knapping there.
    He needs to manufacture a grittier, more flinty approach.
    Perhaps not with the product mind, except for very specialised tastes.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    malcolmg said:

    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:
    Unionist desperation knows no bounds, tag team of the great clunking duffer and Bozo the Clown, independence will be at short odds for sure.
    Seems you are going to have a longer wait for indy2 with Brown and Starmer teaming up and refusing to support it through the HOC

    You seem to have got over your recent ‘blocking a referendum would be undemocratic’ spasm. Can we now expect you to participate in HYUFD’s baton wielding B Specials for the Union?
    I don't think indyref2 is legally dependent on a House of Commons mandate. If you read the legal arguments for a referendum, regardless of what Westminster thinks, it seems reasonably strong.

    Before anyone jumps in with 'that's what it says in law' I would point you to some of the complex arguments being advanced which may well by-pass Westminster.
    If Westminster refuses one it would have as much effect as the Catalan referendum in defiance of Madrid, ie none
    Spain is used to Franco authoritarianism.

    Britain is a proud centuries old democracy.

    If the mother of all Parliament's turns to Francoism then that would be to betray everything that is Great about Britain.
    Wrong, Spain never even allowed Catalonia one legal independence vote.

    Westminster allowed the Scots one in 2014, they voted 55% to stay in the UK in that 'once in a generation' referendum
    Under British Parliamentary Democracy there is an overriding principle quite rightly that No Parliament can bind it's successors.

    Whatever the Scottish voters elect in 2021 is their choice. Not yours. If that contradicts promises in 2014 so be it. That is why no Parliament can bind it's successors.

    Either you respect democracy or you do not. Democracy is not a once in a generation event.
    The Scottish referendum is in the sole purview of Westminster. It’s up to the Westminster parliament if they wish to grant it or not. They can take into account the composition of the Scottish Parliament if they do choose but it’s not the only factor
    Har Har, imagine you supporting colonial rule in a supposedly equal union , who would have believed it.
    Westminster is the combined parliaments of England & Scotland.

    It would be “colonial rule” as you put it if it was an English Parliament telling Scotland what to do
    So if Scottish MPs vote for a Scottish independence referendum, following Scottish MSPs doing then you will respect that?

    Or should the views of the Scots be discarded for the views of the English?
    The Westminster parliament should take their views into account when it makes a decision
  • Charles said:

    Charles said:

    malcolmg said:

    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:
    Unionist desperation knows no bounds, tag team of the great clunking duffer and Bozo the Clown, independence will be at short odds for sure.
    Seems you are going to have a longer wait for indy2 with Brown and Starmer teaming up and refusing to support it through the HOC

    You seem to have got over your recent ‘blocking a referendum would be undemocratic’ spasm. Can we now expect you to participate in HYUFD’s baton wielding B Specials for the Union?
    I don't think indyref2 is legally dependent on a House of Commons mandate. If you read the legal arguments for a referendum, regardless of what Westminster thinks, it seems reasonably strong.

    Before anyone jumps in with 'that's what it says in law' I would point you to some of the complex arguments being advanced which may well by-pass Westminster.
    If Westminster refuses one it would have as much effect as the Catalan referendum in defiance of Madrid, ie none
    Spain is used to Franco authoritarianism.

    Britain is a proud centuries old democracy.

    If the mother of all Parliament's turns to Francoism then that would be to betray everything that is Great about Britain.
    Wrong, Spain never even allowed Catalonia one legal independence vote.

    Westminster allowed the Scots one in 2014, they voted 55% to stay in the UK in that 'once in a generation' referendum
    Under British Parliamentary Democracy there is an overriding principle quite rightly that No Parliament can bind it's successors.

    Whatever the Scottish voters elect in 2021 is their choice. Not yours. If that contradicts promises in 2014 so be it. That is why no Parliament can bind it's successors.

    Either you respect democracy or you do not. Democracy is not a once in a generation event.
    The Scottish referendum is in the sole purview of Westminster. It’s up to the Westminster parliament if they wish to grant it or not. They can take into account the composition of the Scottish Parliament if they do choose but it’s not the only factor
    Har Har, imagine you supporting colonial rule in a supposedly equal union , who would have believed it.
    Westminster is the combined parliaments of England & Scotland.

    It would be “colonial rule” as you put it if it was an English Parliament telling Scotland what to do
    So if Scottish MPs vote for a Scottish independence referendum, following Scottish MSPs doing then you will respect that?

    Or should the views of the Scots be discarded for the views of the English?
    The Westminster parliament should take their views into account when it makes a decision
    And then discard them.
    Yeah, we've had enough taking 'their views into account' lip service up the wazoo to last several generations.
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Charles said:

    malcolmg said:

    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:
    Unionist desperation knows no bounds, tag team of the great clunking duffer and Bozo the Clown, independence will be at short odds for sure.
    Seems you are going to have a longer wait for indy2 with Brown and Starmer teaming up and refusing to support it through the HOC

    You seem to have got over your recent ‘blocking a referendum would be undemocratic’ spasm. Can we now expect you to participate in HYUFD’s baton wielding B Specials for the Union?
    I don't think indyref2 is legally dependent on a House of Commons mandate. If you read the legal arguments for a referendum, regardless of what Westminster thinks, it seems reasonably strong.

    Before anyone jumps in with 'that's what it says in law' I would point you to some of the complex arguments being advanced which may well by-pass Westminster.
    If Westminster refuses one it would have as much effect as the Catalan referendum in defiance of Madrid, ie none
    Spain is used to Franco authoritarianism.

    Britain is a proud centuries old democracy.

    If the mother of all Parliament's turns to Francoism then that would be to betray everything that is Great about Britain.
    Wrong, Spain never even allowed Catalonia one legal independence vote.

    Westminster allowed the Scots one in 2014, they voted 55% to stay in the UK in that 'once in a generation' referendum
    Under British Parliamentary Democracy there is an overriding principle quite rightly that No Parliament can bind it's successors.

    Whatever the Scottish voters elect in 2021 is their choice. Not yours. If that contradicts promises in 2014 so be it. That is why no Parliament can bind it's successors.

    Either you respect democracy or you do not. Democracy is not a once in a generation event.
    The Scottish referendum is in the sole purview of Westminster. It’s up to the Westminster parliament if they wish to grant it or not. They can take into account the composition of the Scottish Parliament if they do choose but it’s not the only factor
    Har Har, imagine you supporting colonial rule in a supposedly equal union , who would have believed it.
    Westminster is the combined parliaments of England & Scotland.

    It would be “colonial rule” as you put it if it was an English Parliament telling Scotland what to do
    Quite. The Commons is full of Scottish MPs. Not only that, these MPs get to vote on English laws, in areas where English MPs sometimes have no say in the same Scottish affairs (eg hunting). And England must sometimes endure Scottish prime ministers - Gordon Brown - whereas no English MP could ever be First Minister in Holyrood.

    The Scots get a fantastic deal in the Union.
    That's up to Scottish voters to determine if we are to remain a democracy.

    If Scottish MPs vote for an independence referendum then that should be honoured on the principle no Parliament can bind its successors should it not? With English MPs respecting how the Scottish voters vote?

    Or are Scots nothing but serfs to bow down in servitude to their English betters in your eyes?
    This is hyperbole. Scots were rightly given a referendum in 2014. The UK is a union of equals and the question had to be posed once the SNP got a majority in Holyrood. So the question was asked.

    But the Scots said No. By a significant margin (more than Brexit).

    No country made up of constituent nations can allow its member nations the right to call a referendum on secession whenever any one nation likes, otherwise there would be perpetual constitutional turbulence - and consequent economic damage to all parties - and the SNP could call a vote every week until they finally win.

    The right to call a referendum is correctly reserved for the combined UK government at Westminster, where Scots are properly represented, alongside the English, Welsh and Northern Irish. If the UK parliament decides it is too soon for the question to be posed again (and I think it is) then that is that.

    There will be another indyref. As there was a 2nd Quebec referendum. But something like a generation should elapse between the votes, as happened in Quebec also.

    2030 feels about right, to me. You are free to differ but I find your moral outrage a bit overblown.

    People aren't "given" the right to vote in a democracy. It is theirs by right. Every few years. And no one Parliament can bind it's successors.

    If the Scottish elect a majority who want a referendum that is democracy.

    If at the following the Scottish elect another majority who want a referendum that is democracy.

    Democracy doesn't end just because it is inconvenient. If the Scots don't want a referendum they shouldn't elect a government pledging one.
This discussion has been closed.