The republicans won;t win in 2024 or ever again, no matter who they put up.
The party is now totally divided between the Trump wing and the McCain/Romney rump. The former now loathe the latter more than the democrats for not fighting with Trump against what they see as widespread vote rigging.
Meanwhile Joe Biden is intent on giving up to 20 million illegal immigrants citizenship as one of his first acts. Plus the immigration gates will be re-opened to many millions more.
Wonder who they are going to vote for.
Its over for the republicans. And right wing politics in America.
No, eventually they'll get tired of losing. It took the Tory party 8 years until they made Dave leader.
Nah the numbers are against you. A right wing coalition of any kind will be impossible after team Biden change America's demographics like they intend to.
America today. South Africa one day. Not that that's necessarily a bad thing. But it would change the balance of the world enormously.
Why do you assume Hispanic Americans will never vote conservative ? That’s a very odd opinion.
@contrarian, don't despair. This is an interesting piece from the NYT
The point: education more than ethnicity is likely to be the key determinant factor moving forwards. The news there is quite positive from a GOP standpoint: while student enrolment went up well over 40% from 1999 to 2011, it has actually been declining for the past few years and the projections are for a flatlining i.e. down as a % of the population. So, while the Democrats may have been boosted by the 1999-2011 growth, that engine of growth is slowing down.
Also, the values thing is the key. Black and Hispanic voters generally have more conservative values. The shift has already started to the GOP on the Republican side and, for young Black males, it is starting (remember many older Black voters have a very strong affinity to the Democrat party).
FWIW, I don't think that Biden will get 20m illegal immigrants made citizens - part because of the courts, part the Senate (Manchin wouldn't vote for it for a start and the AZ senators may have some qualms) and also because the political benefits may not be so great if illegal immigrants are concentrated in Democrat cities / states and such a measures means the loss of white votes.
One other point. It can be easy to overlook the shifts. Ohio, Iowa and, crucially, Florida are looking like safer Republican bets. Yes, Georgia and Arizona have gone the other way but the Democrats in 2024 are far more stretched in terms of defence - those two states, PA, WI and MI will all require considerable defending. For the Republicans, probably NC is the only one that looks vulnerable (I doubt the Democrats will go big on Texas next time).
Cheering the decline in educational standards for political partisanship is probably a good leading indicator for the decline of a once great empire!
The USA has never really been an Empire, a superpower yes but not an Empire
It’s a good job the people of Hawaii, the Philippines, Puerto Rico, Dakota, Oklahoma and New Mexico weren’t overwhelmed by the imperial outreach of the USA.
Imagine how miserable their lives would have been if they had been conquered, their lands and money seized and their resources ruthlessly exploited while anyone who resisted was shot.
The only one of those which are not part of the present USA is the Phillippines and it was only held for 50 years by the US before being given independence after being part of the Spanish Empire.
To be an Empire you have to have taken control of large numbers of countries and territories which are not part of your home nation
Says who? Says you?
I thought that was a generally accepted definition of an empire? A large territory consisting of vassal states.
So did France not have an empire because they integrated their colonial possessions into France proper?
The French Empire covered most of North Africa, Vietnam, Syria etc it was far larger than the extent of any US overseas possessions ever was and while Algeria may have been incorporated within France, Morocco, Vietnam, Syria etc were not
Oh, so is it only an Empire if the possessions are "overseas"? That rules out the Russian Empire I guess.
Alaska says hello.
Did Russia cease to be an Empire when it sold Alaska?
No, it was a large territory consisting of several distinct peoples ruled by a single authority. As I said earlier, one of the generally accepted definitions of an empire.
"distinct peoples" is arbitrary. Is modern Spain an Empire?
I literally used the definition from the first sentence in the wikipedia article.
You're going round in circles.
If Russia was an Empire, If Brazil was an Empire, if Austria-Hungary was an Empire, then the USA was an Empire. The fact that the continuous USA is still one nation state is neither here nor there.
From the same article:
The United States is not traditionally recognized as an empire, in part because the U.S. adopted a different political system from those that previous empires had used. Despite these systematic differences, the political objectives and strategies of the United States government have been quite similar to those of previous empires.[67]
And?
You are saying the US was an empire, but that view is apparently not widespread.
Everyone is aware that the Unites States isn't traditionally recognised as an Empire. That doesn't mean it wasn't though.
Sanjay Bhandari, the chair of the football anti-discrimination body Kick It Out, accused Eustice of a “lazy conflation of taking a knee with a specific political movement” in his criticism of BLM.
Looks like someone needs to educate Mr Bhandari about this.
Eustice is the man for whitesplaining.
He certainly knows more than those trying to argue it’s about anti-racism in general. Remember how much pushback there was when anyone said “all lives matter”?
"All lives matters" is just another trope for racists.
Can you explain why on that, serious question. Surely everyone's life is equal.
It is but it's also obnoxious and unnecessary, only said to cause offence and stir trouble.
It's like if Liverpool fans hold a minute's silence for the 96, or say Justice for the 96, then people interrupt that with a counterprotest banners saying "it should be justice for everyone".
All lives do matter. Everyone should get justice. The reason people said Justice for the 96 was because the 96 were denied justice though. The reason people say Black Lives Matter is because black lives are treated like they don't matter.
That said, Priyamvada Gopal is still an obnoxious pillock at the very least for saying ‘white lives don’t matter, as white lives.‘
Challenge -
- Find any cause in the history of the world - You will find at least one obnoxious arse who, using said cause, has advocated all kind of horrible shite. - I am not aware of any cause/belief system for which this is not true.
Campaign for Electoral Reform?
Unless one considers AV to be "horrible shite" of course.
The republicans won;t win in 2024 or ever again, no matter who they put up.
The party is now totally divided between the Trump wing and the McCain/Romney rump. The former now loathe the latter more than the democrats for not fighting with Trump against what they see as widespread vote rigging.
Meanwhile Joe Biden is intent on giving up to 20 million illegal immigrants citizenship as one of his first acts. Plus the immigration gates will be re-opened to many millions more.
Wonder who they are going to vote for.
Its over for the republicans. And right wing politics in America.
No, eventually they'll get tired of losing. It took the Tory party 8 years until they made Dave leader.
Nah the numbers are against you. A right wing coalition of any kind will be impossible after team Biden change America's demographics like they intend to.
America today. South Africa one day. Not that that's necessarily a bad thing. But it would change the balance of the world enormously.
Why do you assume Hispanic Americans will never vote conservative ? That’s a very odd opinion.
@contrarian, don't despair. This is an interesting piece from the NYT
The point: education more than ethnicity is likely to be the key determinant factor moving forwards. The news there is quite positive from a GOP standpoint: while student enrolment went up well over 40% from 1999 to 2011, it has actually been declining for the past few years and the projections are for a flatlining i.e. down as a % of the population. So, while the Democrats may have been boosted by the 1999-2011 growth, that engine of growth is slowing down.
Also, the values thing is the key. Black and Hispanic voters generally have more conservative values. The shift has already started to the GOP on the Republican side and, for young Black males, it is starting (remember many older Black voters have a very strong affinity to the Democrat party).
FWIW, I don't think that Biden will get 20m illegal immigrants made citizens - part because of the courts, part the Senate (Manchin wouldn't vote for it for a start and the AZ senators may have some qualms) and also because the political benefits may not be so great if illegal immigrants are concentrated in Democrat cities / states and such a measures means the loss of white votes.
One other point. It can be easy to overlook the shifts. Ohio, Iowa and, crucially, Florida are looking like safer Republican bets. Yes, Georgia and Arizona have gone the other way but the Democrats in 2024 are far more stretched in terms of defence - those two states, PA, WI and MI will all require considerable defending. For the Republicans, probably NC is the only one that looks vulnerable (I doubt the Democrats will go big on Texas next time).
Cheering the decline in educational standards for political partisanship is probably a good leading indicator for the decline of a once great empire!
The USA has never really been an Empire, a superpower yes but not an Empire
It’s a good job the people of Hawaii, the Philippines, Puerto Rico, Dakota, Oklahoma and New Mexico weren’t overwhelmed by the imperial outreach of the USA.
Imagine how miserable their lives would have been if they had been conquered, their lands and money seized and their resources ruthlessly exploited while anyone who resisted was shot.
The only one of those which are not part of the present USA is the Phillippines and it was only held for 50 years by the US before being given independence after being part of the Spanish Empire.
To be an Empire you have to have taken control of large numbers of countries and territories which are not part of your home nation
Says who? Says you?
I thought that was a generally accepted definition of an empire? A large territory consisting of vassal states.
So did France not have an empire because they integrated their colonial possessions into France proper?
The French Empire covered most of North Africa, Vietnam, Syria etc it was far larger than the extent of any US overseas possessions ever was and while Algeria may have been incorporated within France, Morocco, Vietnam, Syria etc were not
Oh, so is it only an Empire if the possessions are "overseas"? That rules out the Russian Empire I guess.
Nope, included within my original definition 'To be an Empire you have to have taken control of large numbers of countries which are not part of your home nation'
Sanjay Bhandari, the chair of the football anti-discrimination body Kick It Out, accused Eustice of a “lazy conflation of taking a knee with a specific political movement” in his criticism of BLM.
Looks like someone needs to educate Mr Bhandari about this.
Eustice is the man for whitesplaining.
He certainly knows more than those trying to argue it’s about anti-racism in general. Remember how much pushback there was when anyone said “all lives matter”?
"All lives matters" is just another trope for racists.
Can you explain why on that, serious question. Surely everyone's life is equal.
Don't be a pillock. When you say "save the whales" you don't mean "fuck all other marine life". "All lives matter" is just what bigots and racists say to devalue the statement that "black lives matter".
F*** you as well. What kind of idiot gets from save the whales to "f*** all other marine life". If you cannot answer a question civilly then don't make an arse of yourself.
Yes Malcolm, you are the benchmark of civility that we all aspire to.
I am civil when people warrant civility, but don't suffer arseholes well.
The republicans won;t win in 2024 or ever again, no matter who they put up.
The party is now totally divided between the Trump wing and the McCain/Romney rump. The former now loathe the latter more than the democrats for not fighting with Trump against what they see as widespread vote rigging.
Meanwhile Joe Biden is intent on giving up to 20 million illegal immigrants citizenship as one of his first acts. Plus the immigration gates will be re-opened to many millions more.
Wonder who they are going to vote for.
Its over for the republicans. And right wing politics in America.
No, eventually they'll get tired of losing. It took the Tory party 8 years until they made Dave leader.
Nah the numbers are against you. A right wing coalition of any kind will be impossible after team Biden change America's demographics like they intend to.
America today. South Africa one day. Not that that's necessarily a bad thing. But it would change the balance of the world enormously.
Why do you assume Hispanic Americans will never vote conservative ? That’s a very odd opinion.
@contrarian, don't despair. This is an interesting piece from the NYT
The point: education more than ethnicity is likely to be the key determinant factor moving forwards. The news there is quite positive from a GOP standpoint: while student enrolment went up well over 40% from 1999 to 2011, it has actually been declining for the past few years and the projections are for a flatlining i.e. down as a % of the population. So, while the Democrats may have been boosted by the 1999-2011 growth, that engine of growth is slowing down.
Also, the values thing is the key. Black and Hispanic voters generally have more conservative values. The shift has already started to the GOP on the Republican side and, for young Black males, it is starting (remember many older Black voters have a very strong affinity to the Democrat party).
FWIW, I don't think that Biden will get 20m illegal immigrants made citizens - part because of the courts, part the Senate (Manchin wouldn't vote for it for a start and the AZ senators may have some qualms) and also because the political benefits may not be so great if illegal immigrants are concentrated in Democrat cities / states and such a measures means the loss of white votes.
One other point. It can be easy to overlook the shifts. Ohio, Iowa and, crucially, Florida are looking like safer Republican bets. Yes, Georgia and Arizona have gone the other way but the Democrats in 2024 are far more stretched in terms of defence - those two states, PA, WI and MI will all require considerable defending. For the Republicans, probably NC is the only one that looks vulnerable (I doubt the Democrats will go big on Texas next time).
Cheering the decline in educational standards for political partisanship is probably a good leading indicator for the decline of a once great empire!
The USA has never really been an Empire, a superpower yes but not an Empire
It’s a good job the people of Hawaii, the Philippines, Puerto Rico, Dakota, Oklahoma and New Mexico weren’t overwhelmed by the imperial outreach of the USA.
Imagine how miserable their lives would have been if they had been conquered, their lands and money seized and their resources ruthlessly exploited while anyone who resisted was shot.
The only one of those which are not part of the present USA is the Phillippines and it was only held for 50 years by the US before being given independence after being part of the Spanish Empire.
To be an Empire you have to have taken control of large numbers of countries and territories which are not part of your home nation
Says who? Says you?
I thought that was a generally accepted definition of an empire? A large territory consisting of vassal states.
So did France not have an empire because they integrated their colonial possessions into France proper?
The French Empire covered most of North Africa, Vietnam, Syria etc it was far larger than the extent of any US overseas possessions ever was and while Algeria may have been incorporated within France, Morocco, Vietnam, Syria etc were not
Oh, so is it only an Empire if the possessions are "overseas"? That rules out the Russian Empire I guess.
Alaska says hello.
Did Russia cease to be an Empire when it sold Alaska?
No, it was a large territory consisting of several distinct peoples ruled by a single authority. As I said earlier, one of the generally accepted definitions of an empire.
"distinct peoples" is arbitrary. Is modern Spain an Empire?
I literally used the definition from the first sentence in the wikipedia article.
You're going round in circles.
If Russia was an Empire, If Brazil was an Empire, if Austria-Hungary was an Empire, then the USA was an Empire. The fact that the continuous USA is still one nation state is neither here nor there.
From the same article:
The United States is not traditionally recognized as an empire, in part because the U.S. adopted a different political system from those that previous empires had used. Despite these systematic differences, the political objectives and strategies of the United States government have been quite similar to those of previous empires.[67]
And?
You are saying the US was an empire, but that view is apparently not widespread.
Everyone is aware that the Unites States isn't traditionally recognised as an Empire. That doesn't mean it wasn't though.
If that view was widely held then it would surely say that it was viewed as an empire but is now not.
The republicans won;t win in 2024 or ever again, no matter who they put up.
The party is now totally divided between the Trump wing and the McCain/Romney rump. The former now loathe the latter more than the democrats for not fighting with Trump against what they see as widespread vote rigging.
Meanwhile Joe Biden is intent on giving up to 20 million illegal immigrants citizenship as one of his first acts. Plus the immigration gates will be re-opened to many millions more.
Wonder who they are going to vote for.
Its over for the republicans. And right wing politics in America.
No, eventually they'll get tired of losing. It took the Tory party 8 years until they made Dave leader.
Nah the numbers are against you. A right wing coalition of any kind will be impossible after team Biden change America's demographics like they intend to.
America today. South Africa one day. Not that that's necessarily a bad thing. But it would change the balance of the world enormously.
Why do you assume Hispanic Americans will never vote conservative ? That’s a very odd opinion.
@contrarian, don't despair. This is an interesting piece from the NYT
The point: education more than ethnicity is likely to be the key determinant factor moving forwards. The news there is quite positive from a GOP standpoint: while student enrolment went up well over 40% from 1999 to 2011, it has actually been declining for the past few years and the projections are for a flatlining i.e. down as a % of the population. So, while the Democrats may have been boosted by the 1999-2011 growth, that engine of growth is slowing down.
Also, the values thing is the key. Black and Hispanic voters generally have more conservative values. The shift has already started to the GOP on the Republican side and, for young Black males, it is starting (remember many older Black voters have a very strong affinity to the Democrat party).
FWIW, I don't think that Biden will get 20m illegal immigrants made citizens - part because of the courts, part the Senate (Manchin wouldn't vote for it for a start and the AZ senators may have some qualms) and also because the political benefits may not be so great if illegal immigrants are concentrated in Democrat cities / states and such a measures means the loss of white votes.
One other point. It can be easy to overlook the shifts. Ohio, Iowa and, crucially, Florida are looking like safer Republican bets. Yes, Georgia and Arizona have gone the other way but the Democrats in 2024 are far more stretched in terms of defence - those two states, PA, WI and MI will all require considerable defending. For the Republicans, probably NC is the only one that looks vulnerable (I doubt the Democrats will go big on Texas next time).
Cheering the decline in educational standards for political partisanship is probably a good leading indicator for the decline of a once great empire!
The USA has never really been an Empire, a superpower yes but not an Empire
It’s a good job the people of Hawaii, the Philippines, Puerto Rico, Dakota, Oklahoma and New Mexico weren’t overwhelmed by the imperial outreach of the USA.
Imagine how miserable their lives would have been if they had been conquered, their lands and money seized and their resources ruthlessly exploited while anyone who resisted was shot.
The only one of those which are not part of the present USA is the Phillippines and it was only held for 50 years by the US before being given independence after being part of the Spanish Empire.
To be an Empire you have to have taken control of large numbers of countries and territories which are not part of your home nation
Says who? Says you?
I thought that was a generally accepted definition of an empire? A large territory consisting of vassal states.
So did France not have an empire because they integrated their colonial possessions into France proper?
The French Empire covered most of North Africa, Vietnam, Syria etc it was far larger than the extent of any US overseas possessions ever was and while Algeria may have been incorporated within France, Morocco, Vietnam, Syria etc were not
Oh, so is it only an Empire if the possessions are "overseas"? That rules out the Russian Empire I guess.
Alaska says hello.
Did Russia cease to be an Empire when it sold Alaska?
No, it was a large territory consisting of several distinct peoples ruled by a single authority. As I said earlier, one of the generally accepted definitions of an empire.
"distinct peoples" is arbitrary. Is modern Spain an Empire?
I literally used the definition from the first sentence in the wikipedia article.
You're going round in circles.
If Russia was an Empire, If Brazil was an Empire, if Austria-Hungary was an Empire, then the USA was an Empire. The fact that the continuous USA is still one nation state is neither here nor there.
From the same article:
The United States is not traditionally recognized as an empire, in part because the U.S. adopted a different political system from those that previous empires had used. Despite these systematic differences, the political objectives and strategies of the United States government have been quite similar to those of previous empires.[67]
And?
You are saying the US was an empire, but that view is apparently not widespread.
Everyone is aware that the Unites States isn't traditionally recognised as an Empire. That doesn't mean it wasn't though.
If that view was widely held then it would surely say that it was viewed as an empire but is now not.
The republicans won;t win in 2024 or ever again, no matter who they put up.
The party is now totally divided between the Trump wing and the McCain/Romney rump. The former now loathe the latter more than the democrats for not fighting with Trump against what they see as widespread vote rigging.
Meanwhile Joe Biden is intent on giving up to 20 million illegal immigrants citizenship as one of his first acts. Plus the immigration gates will be re-opened to many millions more.
Wonder who they are going to vote for.
Its over for the republicans. And right wing politics in America.
No, eventually they'll get tired of losing. It took the Tory party 8 years until they made Dave leader.
Nah the numbers are against you. A right wing coalition of any kind will be impossible after team Biden change America's demographics like they intend to.
America today. South Africa one day. Not that that's necessarily a bad thing. But it would change the balance of the world enormously.
Why do you assume Hispanic Americans will never vote conservative ? That’s a very odd opinion.
@contrarian, don't despair. This is an interesting piece from the NYT
The point: education more than ethnicity is likely to be the key determinant factor moving forwards. The news there is quite positive from a GOP standpoint: while student enrolment went up well over 40% from 1999 to 2011, it has actually been declining for the past few years and the projections are for a flatlining i.e. down as a % of the population. So, while the Democrats may have been boosted by the 1999-2011 growth, that engine of growth is slowing down.
Also, the values thing is the key. Black and Hispanic voters generally have more conservative values. The shift has already started to the GOP on the Republican side and, for young Black males, it is starting (remember many older Black voters have a very strong affinity to the Democrat party).
FWIW, I don't think that Biden will get 20m illegal immigrants made citizens - part because of the courts, part the Senate (Manchin wouldn't vote for it for a start and the AZ senators may have some qualms) and also because the political benefits may not be so great if illegal immigrants are concentrated in Democrat cities / states and such a measures means the loss of white votes.
One other point. It can be easy to overlook the shifts. Ohio, Iowa and, crucially, Florida are looking like safer Republican bets. Yes, Georgia and Arizona have gone the other way but the Democrats in 2024 are far more stretched in terms of defence - those two states, PA, WI and MI will all require considerable defending. For the Republicans, probably NC is the only one that looks vulnerable (I doubt the Democrats will go big on Texas next time).
Cheering the decline in educational standards for political partisanship is probably a good leading indicator for the decline of a once great empire!
The USA has never really been an Empire, a superpower yes but not an Empire
It’s a good job the people of Hawaii, the Philippines, Puerto Rico, Dakota, Oklahoma and New Mexico weren’t overwhelmed by the imperial outreach of the USA.
Imagine how miserable their lives would have been if they had been conquered, their lands and money seized and their resources ruthlessly exploited while anyone who resisted was shot.
The only one of those which are not part of the present USA is the Phillippines and it was only held for 50 years by the US before being given independence after being part of the Spanish Empire.
To be an Empire you have to have taken control of large numbers of countries and territories which are not part of your home nation
Says who? Says you?
I thought that was a generally accepted definition of an empire? A large territory consisting of vassal states.
So did France not have an empire because they integrated their colonial possessions into France proper?
The French Empire covered most of North Africa, Vietnam, Syria etc it was far larger than the extent of any US overseas possessions ever was and while Algeria may have been incorporated within France, Morocco, Vietnam, Syria etc were not
Oh, so is it only an Empire if the possessions are "overseas"? That rules out the Russian Empire I guess.
Alaska says hello.
Did Russia cease to be an Empire when it sold Alaska?
No, it was a large territory consisting of several distinct peoples ruled by a single authority. As I said earlier, one of the generally accepted definitions of an empire.
"distinct peoples" is arbitrary. Is modern Spain an Empire?
I literally used the definition from the first sentence in the wikipedia article.
You're going round in circles.
If Russia was an Empire, If Brazil was an Empire, if Austria-Hungary was an Empire, then the USA was an Empire. The fact that the continuous USA is still one nation state is neither here nor there.
From the same article:
The United States is not traditionally recognized as an empire, in part because the U.S. adopted a different political system from those that previous empires had used. Despite these systematic differences, the political objectives and strategies of the United States government have been quite similar to those of previous empires.[67]
And?
You are saying the US was an empire, but that view is apparently not widespread.
Everyone is aware that the Unites States isn't traditionally recognised as an Empire. That doesn't mean it wasn't though.
If that view was widely held then it would surely say that it was viewed as an empire but is now not.
What?
You are asserting that the US was an empire. I am saying that if that was a widely held view in academic circles it would be stated explicitly.
Vaccine passports - in favour. Once again the PM is weak and stupid to not be pushing this right now as a benefit of having been vaccinated. We should be encouraging pubs, bars, restaurants etc... to insist on having been vaccinated to get entrance unless there are specific health conditions which prevent vaccination that also gives you a different kind of ID for entrance in these places.
The sooner we get 80-90% of people vaccinated the better off we'll all be and personal choice can take a running jump right now.
Yep agree entirely.
Edit.
I am afraid some of our freedom espousing libertarian types forget that the basic principle of their creed (my creed as it happens) is that it is as much about individual personal responsibility as individual personal rights. They want the rights but don't seem to be interested in the responsibilities. They are a poor advert for their supposed beliefs and it is sad to see how many of them there are out there.
I think that we will find that vaccination passports will be created by default - GPs letters that x has been vaccinated on day y.
It will only be a passport if there is a widespread requirement to show it. And I doubt there will be.
The republicans won;t win in 2024 or ever again, no matter who they put up.
The party is now totally divided between the Trump wing and the McCain/Romney rump. The former now loathe the latter more than the democrats for not fighting with Trump against what they see as widespread vote rigging.
Meanwhile Joe Biden is intent on giving up to 20 million illegal immigrants citizenship as one of his first acts. Plus the immigration gates will be re-opened to many millions more.
Wonder who they are going to vote for.
Its over for the republicans. And right wing politics in America.
No, eventually they'll get tired of losing. It took the Tory party 8 years until they made Dave leader.
Nah the numbers are against you. A right wing coalition of any kind will be impossible after team Biden change America's demographics like they intend to.
America today. South Africa one day. Not that that's necessarily a bad thing. But it would change the balance of the world enormously.
Why do you assume Hispanic Americans will never vote conservative ? That’s a very odd opinion.
@contrarian, don't despair. This is an interesting piece from the NYT
The point: education more than ethnicity is likely to be the key determinant factor moving forwards. The news there is quite positive from a GOP standpoint: while student enrolment went up well over 40% from 1999 to 2011, it has actually been declining for the past few years and the projections are for a flatlining i.e. down as a % of the population. So, while the Democrats may have been boosted by the 1999-2011 growth, that engine of growth is slowing down.
Also, the values thing is the key. Black and Hispanic voters generally have more conservative values. The shift has already started to the GOP on the Republican side and, for young Black males, it is starting (remember many older Black voters have a very strong affinity to the Democrat party).
FWIW, I don't think that Biden will get 20m illegal immigrants made citizens - part because of the courts, part the Senate (Manchin wouldn't vote for it for a start and the AZ senators may have some qualms) and also because the political benefits may not be so great if illegal immigrants are concentrated in Democrat cities / states and such a measures means the loss of white votes.
One other point. It can be easy to overlook the shifts. Ohio, Iowa and, crucially, Florida are looking like safer Republican bets. Yes, Georgia and Arizona have gone the other way but the Democrats in 2024 are far more stretched in terms of defence - those two states, PA, WI and MI will all require considerable defending. For the Republicans, probably NC is the only one that looks vulnerable (I doubt the Democrats will go big on Texas next time).
Cheering the decline in educational standards for political partisanship is probably a good leading indicator for the decline of a once great empire!
The USA has never really been an Empire, a superpower yes but not an Empire
It’s a good job the people of Hawaii, the Philippines, Puerto Rico, Dakota, Oklahoma and New Mexico weren’t overwhelmed by the imperial outreach of the USA.
Imagine how miserable their lives would have been if they had been conquered, their lands and money seized and their resources ruthlessly exploited while anyone who resisted was shot.
The only one of those which are not part of the present USA is the Phillippines and it was only held for 50 years by the US before being given independence after being part of the Spanish Empire.
To be an Empire you have to have taken control of large numbers of countries and territories which are not part of your home nation
Says who? Says you?
I thought that was a generally accepted definition of an empire? A large territory consisting of vassal states.
So did France not have an empire because they integrated their colonial possessions into France proper?
The French Empire covered most of North Africa, Vietnam, Syria etc it was far larger than the extent of any US overseas possessions ever was and while Algeria may have been incorporated within France, Morocco, Vietnam, Syria etc were not
Oh, so is it only an Empire if the possessions are "overseas"? That rules out the Russian Empire I guess.
Alaska says hello.
Did Russia cease to be an Empire when it sold Alaska?
No, it was a large territory consisting of several distinct peoples ruled by a single authority. As I said earlier, one of the generally accepted definitions of an empire.
"distinct peoples" is arbitrary. Is modern Spain an Empire?
I literally used the definition from the first sentence in the wikipedia article.
You're going round in circles.
If Russia was an Empire, If Brazil was an Empire, if Austria-Hungary was an Empire, then the USA was an Empire. The fact that the continuous USA is still one nation state is neither here nor there.
No that doesn't follow as there's another difference. Why was Brazil an Empire and why did it cease to be one?
Brazil was an Empire because it had an Emperor, it ceases to be an Empire when it became a republic.
The republicans won;t win in 2024 or ever again, no matter who they put up.
The party is now totally divided between the Trump wing and the McCain/Romney rump. The former now loathe the latter more than the democrats for not fighting with Trump against what they see as widespread vote rigging.
Meanwhile Joe Biden is intent on giving up to 20 million illegal immigrants citizenship as one of his first acts. Plus the immigration gates will be re-opened to many millions more.
Wonder who they are going to vote for.
Its over for the republicans. And right wing politics in America.
No, eventually they'll get tired of losing. It took the Tory party 8 years until they made Dave leader.
Nah the numbers are against you. A right wing coalition of any kind will be impossible after team Biden change America's demographics like they intend to.
America today. South Africa one day. Not that that's necessarily a bad thing. But it would change the balance of the world enormously.
Why do you assume Hispanic Americans will never vote conservative ? That’s a very odd opinion.
@contrarian, don't despair. This is an interesting piece from the NYT
The point: education more than ethnicity is likely to be the key determinant factor moving forwards. The news there is quite positive from a GOP standpoint: while student enrolment went up well over 40% from 1999 to 2011, it has actually been declining for the past few years and the projections are for a flatlining i.e. down as a % of the population. So, while the Democrats may have been boosted by the 1999-2011 growth, that engine of growth is slowing down.
Also, the values thing is the key. Black and Hispanic voters generally have more conservative values. The shift has already started to the GOP on the Republican side and, for young Black males, it is starting (remember many older Black voters have a very strong affinity to the Democrat party).
FWIW, I don't think that Biden will get 20m illegal immigrants made citizens - part because of the courts, part the Senate (Manchin wouldn't vote for it for a start and the AZ senators may have some qualms) and also because the political benefits may not be so great if illegal immigrants are concentrated in Democrat cities / states and such a measures means the loss of white votes.
One other point. It can be easy to overlook the shifts. Ohio, Iowa and, crucially, Florida are looking like safer Republican bets. Yes, Georgia and Arizona have gone the other way but the Democrats in 2024 are far more stretched in terms of defence - those two states, PA, WI and MI will all require considerable defending. For the Republicans, probably NC is the only one that looks vulnerable (I doubt the Democrats will go big on Texas next time).
Cheering the decline in educational standards for political partisanship is probably a good leading indicator for the decline of a once great empire!
The USA has never really been an Empire, a superpower yes but not an Empire
It’s a good job the people of Hawaii, the Philippines, Puerto Rico, Dakota, Oklahoma and New Mexico weren’t overwhelmed by the imperial outreach of the USA.
Imagine how miserable their lives would have been if they had been conquered, their lands and money seized and their resources ruthlessly exploited while anyone who resisted was shot.
The only one of those which are not part of the present USA is the Phillippines and it was only held for 50 years by the US before being given independence after being part of the Spanish Empire.
To be an Empire you have to have taken control of large numbers of countries and territories which are not part of your home nation
Says who? Says you?
I thought that was a generally accepted definition of an empire? A large territory consisting of vassal states.
So did France not have an empire because they integrated their colonial possessions into France proper?
The French Empire covered most of North Africa, Vietnam, Syria etc it was far larger than the extent of any US overseas possessions ever was and while Algeria may have been incorporated within France, Morocco, Vietnam, Syria etc were not
Oh, so is it only an Empire if the possessions are "overseas"? That rules out the Russian Empire I guess.
Alaska says hello.
Did Russia cease to be an Empire when it sold Alaska?
No, it was a large territory consisting of several distinct peoples ruled by a single authority. As I said earlier, one of the generally accepted definitions of an empire.
"distinct peoples" is arbitrary. Is modern Spain an Empire?
I literally used the definition from the first sentence in the wikipedia article.
You're going round in circles.
If Russia was an Empire, If Brazil was an Empire, if Austria-Hungary was an Empire, then the USA was an Empire. The fact that the continuous USA is still one nation state is neither here nor there.
From the same article:
The United States is not traditionally recognized as an empire, in part because the U.S. adopted a different political system from those that previous empires had used. Despite these systematic differences, the political objectives and strategies of the United States government have been quite similar to those of previous empires.[67]
And?
You are saying the US was an empire, but that view is apparently not widespread.
Everyone is aware that the Unites States isn't traditionally recognised as an Empire. That doesn't mean it wasn't though.
If that view was widely held then it would surely say that it was viewed as an empire but is now not.
What?
You are asserting that the US was an empire. I am saying that if that was a widely held view in academic circles it would be stated explicitly.
You're quoting Wikipedia as some point of biblical gospel.
The fact remains that whilst the United States is not traditionally regard as an Empire, it exhibits many of the characteristics of one. It's entirely reasonable to argue such a classification and it's not reasonable to HYFUD-splain away any suggestion of that fact.
Everyone is aware that the Unites States isn't traditionally recognised as an Empire. That doesn't mean it wasn't though.
If that view was widely held then it would surely say that it was viewed as an empire but is now not.
In the Harry Turtledove 8 book series World War / Colonisation, "not empire" is how The Race describe human countries like America where they elect their leader (via "snoutcounting")
The republicans won;t win in 2024 or ever again, no matter who they put up.
The party is now totally divided between the Trump wing and the McCain/Romney rump. The former now loathe the latter more than the democrats for not fighting with Trump against what they see as widespread vote rigging.
Meanwhile Joe Biden is intent on giving up to 20 million illegal immigrants citizenship as one of his first acts. Plus the immigration gates will be re-opened to many millions more.
Wonder who they are going to vote for.
Its over for the republicans. And right wing politics in America.
No, eventually they'll get tired of losing. It took the Tory party 8 years until they made Dave leader.
Nah the numbers are against you. A right wing coalition of any kind will be impossible after team Biden change America's demographics like they intend to.
America today. South Africa one day. Not that that's necessarily a bad thing. But it would change the balance of the world enormously.
Why do you assume Hispanic Americans will never vote conservative ? That’s a very odd opinion.
@contrarian, don't despair. This is an interesting piece from the NYT
The point: education more than ethnicity is likely to be the key determinant factor moving forwards. The news there is quite positive from a GOP standpoint: while student enrolment went up well over 40% from 1999 to 2011, it has actually been declining for the past few years and the projections are for a flatlining i.e. down as a % of the population. So, while the Democrats may have been boosted by the 1999-2011 growth, that engine of growth is slowing down.
Also, the values thing is the key. Black and Hispanic voters generally have more conservative values. The shift has already started to the GOP on the Republican side and, for young Black males, it is starting (remember many older Black voters have a very strong affinity to the Democrat party).
FWIW, I don't think that Biden will get 20m illegal immigrants made citizens - part because of the courts, part the Senate (Manchin wouldn't vote for it for a start and the AZ senators may have some qualms) and also because the political benefits may not be so great if illegal immigrants are concentrated in Democrat cities / states and such a measures means the loss of white votes.
One other point. It can be easy to overlook the shifts. Ohio, Iowa and, crucially, Florida are looking like safer Republican bets. Yes, Georgia and Arizona have gone the other way but the Democrats in 2024 are far more stretched in terms of defence - those two states, PA, WI and MI will all require considerable defending. For the Republicans, probably NC is the only one that looks vulnerable (I doubt the Democrats will go big on Texas next time).
Cheering the decline in educational standards for political partisanship is probably a good leading indicator for the decline of a once great empire!
The USA has never really been an Empire, a superpower yes but not an Empire
It’s a good job the people of Hawaii, the Philippines, Puerto Rico, Dakota, Oklahoma and New Mexico weren’t overwhelmed by the imperial outreach of the USA.
Imagine how miserable their lives would have been if they had been conquered, their lands and money seized and their resources ruthlessly exploited while anyone who resisted was shot.
The only one of those which are not part of the present USA is the Phillippines and it was only held for 50 years by the US before being given independence after being part of the Spanish Empire.
To be an Empire you have to have taken control of large numbers of countries and territories which are not part of your home nation
Says who? Says you?
I thought that was a generally accepted definition of an empire? A large territory consisting of vassal states.
So did France not have an empire because they integrated their colonial possessions into France proper?
The French Empire covered most of North Africa, Vietnam, Syria etc it was far larger than the extent of any US overseas possessions ever was and while Algeria may have been incorporated within France, Morocco, Vietnam, Syria etc were not
Oh, so is it only an Empire if the possessions are "overseas"? That rules out the Russian Empire I guess.
Alaska says hello.
Did Russia cease to be an Empire when it sold Alaska?
No, it was a large territory consisting of several distinct peoples ruled by a single authority. As I said earlier, one of the generally accepted definitions of an empire.
"distinct peoples" is arbitrary. Is modern Spain an Empire?
I literally used the definition from the first sentence in the wikipedia article.
You're going round in circles.
If Russia was an Empire, If Brazil was an Empire, if Austria-Hungary was an Empire, then the USA was an Empire. The fact that the continuous USA is still one nation state is neither here nor there.
No that doesn't follow as there's another difference. Why was Brazil an Empire and why did it cease to be one?
Brazil was an Empire because it had an Emperor, it ceases to be an Empire when it became a republic.
The USA has always been a republic.
Then @HYUFD should have stated that an empire is only an "empire" if it has an "emperor" but that wasn't his argument.
The republicans won;t win in 2024 or ever again, no matter who they put up.
The party is now totally divided between the Trump wing and the McCain/Romney rump. The former now loathe the latter more than the democrats for not fighting with Trump against what they see as widespread vote rigging.
Meanwhile Joe Biden is intent on giving up to 20 million illegal immigrants citizenship as one of his first acts. Plus the immigration gates will be re-opened to many millions more.
Wonder who they are going to vote for.
Its over for the republicans. And right wing politics in America.
No, eventually they'll get tired of losing. It took the Tory party 8 years until they made Dave leader.
Nah the numbers are against you. A right wing coalition of any kind will be impossible after team Biden change America's demographics like they intend to.
America today. South Africa one day. Not that that's necessarily a bad thing. But it would change the balance of the world enormously.
Why do you assume Hispanic Americans will never vote conservative ? That’s a very odd opinion.
@contrarian, don't despair. This is an interesting piece from the NYT
The point: education more than ethnicity is likely to be the key determinant factor moving forwards. The news there is quite positive from a GOP standpoint: while student enrolment went up well over 40% from 1999 to 2011, it has actually been declining for the past few years and the projections are for a flatlining i.e. down as a % of the population. So, while the Democrats may have been boosted by the 1999-2011 growth, that engine of growth is slowing down.
Also, the values thing is the key. Black and Hispanic voters generally have more conservative values. The shift has already started to the GOP on the Republican side and, for young Black males, it is starting (remember many older Black voters have a very strong affinity to the Democrat party).
FWIW, I don't think that Biden will get 20m illegal immigrants made citizens - part because of the courts, part the Senate (Manchin wouldn't vote for it for a start and the AZ senators may have some qualms) and also because the political benefits may not be so great if illegal immigrants are concentrated in Democrat cities / states and such a measures means the loss of white votes.
One other point. It can be easy to overlook the shifts. Ohio, Iowa and, crucially, Florida are looking like safer Republican bets. Yes, Georgia and Arizona have gone the other way but the Democrats in 2024 are far more stretched in terms of defence - those two states, PA, WI and MI will all require considerable defending. For the Republicans, probably NC is the only one that looks vulnerable (I doubt the Democrats will go big on Texas next time).
Cheering the decline in educational standards for political partisanship is probably a good leading indicator for the decline of a once great empire!
The USA has never really been an Empire, a superpower yes but not an Empire
It’s a good job the people of Hawaii, the Philippines, Puerto Rico, Dakota, Oklahoma and New Mexico weren’t overwhelmed by the imperial outreach of the USA.
Imagine how miserable their lives would have been if they had been conquered, their lands and money seized and their resources ruthlessly exploited while anyone who resisted was shot.
The only one of those which are not part of the present USA is the Phillippines and it was only held for 50 years by the US before being given independence after being part of the Spanish Empire.
To be an Empire you have to have taken control of large numbers of countries and territories which are not part of your home nation
Says who? Says you?
I thought that was a generally accepted definition of an empire? A large territory consisting of vassal states.
So did France not have an empire because they integrated their colonial possessions into France proper?
The French Empire covered most of North Africa, Vietnam, Syria etc it was far larger than the extent of any US overseas possessions ever was and while Algeria may have been incorporated within France, Morocco, Vietnam, Syria etc were not
Oh, so is it only an Empire if the possessions are "overseas"? That rules out the Russian Empire I guess.
Alaska says hello.
Did Russia cease to be an Empire when it sold Alaska?
No, it was a large territory consisting of several distinct peoples ruled by a single authority. As I said earlier, one of the generally accepted definitions of an empire.
"distinct peoples" is arbitrary. Is modern Spain an Empire?
I literally used the definition from the first sentence in the wikipedia article.
You're going round in circles.
If Russia was an Empire, If Brazil was an Empire, if Austria-Hungary was an Empire, then the USA was an Empire. The fact that the continuous USA is still one nation state is neither here nor there.
No that doesn't follow as there's another difference. Why was Brazil an Empire and why did it cease to be one?
Brazil was an Empire because it had an Emperor, it ceases to be an Empire when it became a republic.
The USA has always been a republic.
Then @HYUFD should have stated that an empire is only an "empire" if it has an "emperor" but that wasn't his argument.
Did you expect me to agree with HYUFD just because HYUFD said it?
HYUFD saying something normally means the opposite is true for me.
The republicans won;t win in 2024 or ever again, no matter who they put up.
The party is now totally divided between the Trump wing and the McCain/Romney rump. The former now loathe the latter more than the democrats for not fighting with Trump against what they see as widespread vote rigging.
Meanwhile Joe Biden is intent on giving up to 20 million illegal immigrants citizenship as one of his first acts. Plus the immigration gates will be re-opened to many millions more.
Wonder who they are going to vote for.
Its over for the republicans. And right wing politics in America.
No, eventually they'll get tired of losing. It took the Tory party 8 years until they made Dave leader.
Nah the numbers are against you. A right wing coalition of any kind will be impossible after team Biden change America's demographics like they intend to.
America today. South Africa one day. Not that that's necessarily a bad thing. But it would change the balance of the world enormously.
Why do you assume Hispanic Americans will never vote conservative ? That’s a very odd opinion.
@contrarian, don't despair. This is an interesting piece from the NYT
The point: education more than ethnicity is likely to be the key determinant factor moving forwards. The news there is quite positive from a GOP standpoint: while student enrolment went up well over 40% from 1999 to 2011, it has actually been declining for the past few years and the projections are for a flatlining i.e. down as a % of the population. So, while the Democrats may have been boosted by the 1999-2011 growth, that engine of growth is slowing down.
Also, the values thing is the key. Black and Hispanic voters generally have more conservative values. The shift has already started to the GOP on the Republican side and, for young Black males, it is starting (remember many older Black voters have a very strong affinity to the Democrat party).
FWIW, I don't think that Biden will get 20m illegal immigrants made citizens - part because of the courts, part the Senate (Manchin wouldn't vote for it for a start and the AZ senators may have some qualms) and also because the political benefits may not be so great if illegal immigrants are concentrated in Democrat cities / states and such a measures means the loss of white votes.
One other point. It can be easy to overlook the shifts. Ohio, Iowa and, crucially, Florida are looking like safer Republican bets. Yes, Georgia and Arizona have gone the other way but the Democrats in 2024 are far more stretched in terms of defence - those two states, PA, WI and MI will all require considerable defending. For the Republicans, probably NC is the only one that looks vulnerable (I doubt the Democrats will go big on Texas next time).
Cheering the decline in educational standards for political partisanship is probably a good leading indicator for the decline of a once great empire!
The USA has never really been an Empire, a superpower yes but not an Empire
It’s a good job the people of Hawaii, the Philippines, Puerto Rico, Dakota, Oklahoma and New Mexico weren’t overwhelmed by the imperial outreach of the USA.
Imagine how miserable their lives would have been if they had been conquered, their lands and money seized and their resources ruthlessly exploited while anyone who resisted was shot.
The only one of those which are not part of the present USA is the Phillippines and it was only held for 50 years by the US before being given independence after being part of the Spanish Empire.
To be an Empire you have to have taken control of large numbers of countries and territories which are not part of your home nation
Says who? Says you?
I thought that was a generally accepted definition of an empire? A large territory consisting of vassal states.
So did France not have an empire because they integrated their colonial possessions into France proper?
The French Empire covered most of North Africa, Vietnam, Syria etc it was far larger than the extent of any US overseas possessions ever was and while Algeria may have been incorporated within France, Morocco, Vietnam, Syria etc were not
Oh, so is it only an Empire if the possessions are "overseas"? That rules out the Russian Empire I guess.
Alaska says hello.
Did Russia cease to be an Empire when it sold Alaska?
No, it was a large territory consisting of several distinct peoples ruled by a single authority. As I said earlier, one of the generally accepted definitions of an empire.
"distinct peoples" is arbitrary. Is modern Spain an Empire?
I literally used the definition from the first sentence in the wikipedia article.
You're going round in circles.
If Russia was an Empire, If Brazil was an Empire, if Austria-Hungary was an Empire, then the USA was an Empire. The fact that the continuous USA is still one nation state is neither here nor there.
No that doesn't follow as there's another difference. Why was Brazil an Empire and why did it cease to be one?
Brazil was an Empire because it had an Emperor, it ceases to be an Empire when it became a republic.
The USA has always been a republic.
Then @HYUFD should have stated that an empire is only an "empire" if it has an "emperor" but that wasn't his argument.
Not required, though often the case, required is control of multiple territories and peoples outside the home nation
'An empire is a sovereign state consisting of several territories and peoples subject to a single ruling authority, often an emperor.'
The republicans won;t win in 2024 or ever again, no matter who they put up.
The party is now totally divided between the Trump wing and the McCain/Romney rump. The former now loathe the latter more than the democrats for not fighting with Trump against what they see as widespread vote rigging.
Meanwhile Joe Biden is intent on giving up to 20 million illegal immigrants citizenship as one of his first acts. Plus the immigration gates will be re-opened to many millions more.
Wonder who they are going to vote for.
Its over for the republicans. And right wing politics in America.
No, eventually they'll get tired of losing. It took the Tory party 8 years until they made Dave leader.
Nah the numbers are against you. A right wing coalition of any kind will be impossible after team Biden change America's demographics like they intend to.
America today. South Africa one day. Not that that's necessarily a bad thing. But it would change the balance of the world enormously.
Why do you assume Hispanic Americans will never vote conservative ? That’s a very odd opinion.
@contrarian, don't despair. This is an interesting piece from the NYT
The point: education more than ethnicity is likely to be the key determinant factor moving forwards. The news there is quite positive from a GOP standpoint: while student enrolment went up well over 40% from 1999 to 2011, it has actually been declining for the past few years and the projections are for a flatlining i.e. down as a % of the population. So, while the Democrats may have been boosted by the 1999-2011 growth, that engine of growth is slowing down.
Also, the values thing is the key. Black and Hispanic voters generally have more conservative values. The shift has already started to the GOP on the Republican side and, for young Black males, it is starting (remember many older Black voters have a very strong affinity to the Democrat party).
FWIW, I don't think that Biden will get 20m illegal immigrants made citizens - part because of the courts, part the Senate (Manchin wouldn't vote for it for a start and the AZ senators may have some qualms) and also because the political benefits may not be so great if illegal immigrants are concentrated in Democrat cities / states and such a measures means the loss of white votes.
One other point. It can be easy to overlook the shifts. Ohio, Iowa and, crucially, Florida are looking like safer Republican bets. Yes, Georgia and Arizona have gone the other way but the Democrats in 2024 are far more stretched in terms of defence - those two states, PA, WI and MI will all require considerable defending. For the Republicans, probably NC is the only one that looks vulnerable (I doubt the Democrats will go big on Texas next time).
Cheering the decline in educational standards for political partisanship is probably a good leading indicator for the decline of a once great empire!
The USA has never really been an Empire, a superpower yes but not an Empire
It’s a good job the people of Hawaii, the Philippines, Puerto Rico, Dakota, Oklahoma and New Mexico weren’t overwhelmed by the imperial outreach of the USA.
Imagine how miserable their lives would have been if they had been conquered, their lands and money seized and their resources ruthlessly exploited while anyone who resisted was shot.
The only one of those which are not part of the present USA is the Phillippines and it was only held for 50 years by the US before being given independence after being part of the Spanish Empire.
To be an Empire you have to have taken control of large numbers of countries and territories which are not part of your home nation
Says who? Says you?
I thought that was a generally accepted definition of an empire? A large territory consisting of vassal states.
So did France not have an empire because they integrated their colonial possessions into France proper?
The French Empire covered most of North Africa, Vietnam, Syria etc it was far larger than the extent of any US overseas possessions ever was and while Algeria may have been incorporated within France, Morocco, Vietnam, Syria etc were not
Oh, so is it only an Empire if the possessions are "overseas"? That rules out the Russian Empire I guess.
Alaska says hello.
Did Russia cease to be an Empire when it sold Alaska?
No, it was a large territory consisting of several distinct peoples ruled by a single authority. As I said earlier, one of the generally accepted definitions of an empire.
"distinct peoples" is arbitrary. Is modern Spain an Empire?
I literally used the definition from the first sentence in the wikipedia article.
You're going round in circles.
If Russia was an Empire, If Brazil was an Empire, if Austria-Hungary was an Empire, then the USA was an Empire. The fact that the continuous USA is still one nation state is neither here nor there.
No that doesn't follow as there's another difference. Why was Brazil an Empire and why did it cease to be one?
Brazil was an Empire because it had an Emperor, it ceases to be an Empire when it became a republic.
The USA has always been a republic.
Then @HYUFD should have stated that an empire is only an "empire" if it has an "emperor" but that wasn't his argument.
Not required, though often the case, required is control of multiple territories and peoples outside the home nation
'An empire is a sovereign state consisting of several territories and peoples subject to a single ruling authority, often an emperor.'
The republicans won;t win in 2024 or ever again, no matter who they put up.
The party is now totally divided between the Trump wing and the McCain/Romney rump. The former now loathe the latter more than the democrats for not fighting with Trump against what they see as widespread vote rigging.
Meanwhile Joe Biden is intent on giving up to 20 million illegal immigrants citizenship as one of his first acts. Plus the immigration gates will be re-opened to many millions more.
Wonder who they are going to vote for.
Its over for the republicans. And right wing politics in America.
No, eventually they'll get tired of losing. It took the Tory party 8 years until they made Dave leader.
Nah the numbers are against you. A right wing coalition of any kind will be impossible after team Biden change America's demographics like they intend to.
America today. South Africa one day. Not that that's necessarily a bad thing. But it would change the balance of the world enormously.
Why do you assume Hispanic Americans will never vote conservative ? That’s a very odd opinion.
@contrarian, don't despair. This is an interesting piece from the NYT
The point: education more than ethnicity is likely to be the key determinant factor moving forwards. The news there is quite positive from a GOP standpoint: while student enrolment went up well over 40% from 1999 to 2011, it has actually been declining for the past few years and the projections are for a flatlining i.e. down as a % of the population. So, while the Democrats may have been boosted by the 1999-2011 growth, that engine of growth is slowing down.
Also, the values thing is the key. Black and Hispanic voters generally have more conservative values. The shift has already started to the GOP on the Republican side and, for young Black males, it is starting (remember many older Black voters have a very strong affinity to the Democrat party).
FWIW, I don't think that Biden will get 20m illegal immigrants made citizens - part because of the courts, part the Senate (Manchin wouldn't vote for it for a start and the AZ senators may have some qualms) and also because the political benefits may not be so great if illegal immigrants are concentrated in Democrat cities / states and such a measures means the loss of white votes.
One other point. It can be easy to overlook the shifts. Ohio, Iowa and, crucially, Florida are looking like safer Republican bets. Yes, Georgia and Arizona have gone the other way but the Democrats in 2024 are far more stretched in terms of defence - those two states, PA, WI and MI will all require considerable defending. For the Republicans, probably NC is the only one that looks vulnerable (I doubt the Democrats will go big on Texas next time).
Cheering the decline in educational standards for political partisanship is probably a good leading indicator for the decline of a once great empire!
The USA has never really been an Empire, a superpower yes but not an Empire
It’s a good job the people of Hawaii, the Philippines, Puerto Rico, Dakota, Oklahoma and New Mexico weren’t overwhelmed by the imperial outreach of the USA.
Imagine how miserable their lives would have been if they had been conquered, their lands and money seized and their resources ruthlessly exploited while anyone who resisted was shot.
The only one of those which are not part of the present USA is the Phillippines and it was only held for 50 years by the US before being given independence after being part of the Spanish Empire.
To be an Empire you have to have taken control of large numbers of countries and territories which are not part of your home nation
Says who? Says you?
I thought that was a generally accepted definition of an empire? A large territory consisting of vassal states.
So did France not have an empire because they integrated their colonial possessions into France proper?
The French Empire covered most of North Africa, Vietnam, Syria etc it was far larger than the extent of any US overseas possessions ever was and while Algeria may have been incorporated within France, Morocco, Vietnam, Syria etc were not
Oh, so is it only an Empire if the possessions are "overseas"? That rules out the Russian Empire I guess.
Alaska says hello.
Did Russia cease to be an Empire when it sold Alaska?
No, it was a large territory consisting of several distinct peoples ruled by a single authority. As I said earlier, one of the generally accepted definitions of an empire.
"distinct peoples" is arbitrary. Is modern Spain an Empire?
Is England under HYUFD an Empire? He did say how much he apprtoved of General Franco the other day.
No, England is a country, the UK a sovereign country and union
I will remind you of that next time you argue that English Tory MPs should always be allowed to override the democratically expressed will of the Scottish people.
Scots reaffirmed their commitment to the Union in the once in a generation 2014 referendum
Away and play with your spinal pad and pith helmet.
And you know you are losing the argument when you come up with the same old lie about generations.
The republicans won;t win in 2024 or ever again, no matter who they put up.
The party is now totally divided between the Trump wing and the McCain/Romney rump. The former now loathe the latter more than the democrats for not fighting with Trump against what they see as widespread vote rigging.
Meanwhile Joe Biden is intent on giving up to 20 million illegal immigrants citizenship as one of his first acts. Plus the immigration gates will be re-opened to many millions more.
Wonder who they are going to vote for.
Its over for the republicans. And right wing politics in America.
No, eventually they'll get tired of losing. It took the Tory party 8 years until they made Dave leader.
Nah the numbers are against you. A right wing coalition of any kind will be impossible after team Biden change America's demographics like they intend to.
America today. South Africa one day. Not that that's necessarily a bad thing. But it would change the balance of the world enormously.
Why do you assume Hispanic Americans will never vote conservative ? That’s a very odd opinion.
@contrarian, don't despair. This is an interesting piece from the NYT
The point: education more than ethnicity is likely to be the key determinant factor moving forwards. The news there is quite positive from a GOP standpoint: while student enrolment went up well over 40% from 1999 to 2011, it has actually been declining for the past few years and the projections are for a flatlining i.e. down as a % of the population. So, while the Democrats may have been boosted by the 1999-2011 growth, that engine of growth is slowing down.
Also, the values thing is the key. Black and Hispanic voters generally have more conservative values. The shift has already started to the GOP on the Republican side and, for young Black males, it is starting (remember many older Black voters have a very strong affinity to the Democrat party).
FWIW, I don't think that Biden will get 20m illegal immigrants made citizens - part because of the courts, part the Senate (Manchin wouldn't vote for it for a start and the AZ senators may have some qualms) and also because the political benefits may not be so great if illegal immigrants are concentrated in Democrat cities / states and such a measures means the loss of white votes.
One other point. It can be easy to overlook the shifts. Ohio, Iowa and, crucially, Florida are looking like safer Republican bets. Yes, Georgia and Arizona have gone the other way but the Democrats in 2024 are far more stretched in terms of defence - those two states, PA, WI and MI will all require considerable defending. For the Republicans, probably NC is the only one that looks vulnerable (I doubt the Democrats will go big on Texas next time).
Cheering the decline in educational standards for political partisanship is probably a good leading indicator for the decline of a once great empire!
The USA has never really been an Empire, a superpower yes but not an Empire
It’s a good job the people of Hawaii, the Philippines, Puerto Rico, Dakota, Oklahoma and New Mexico weren’t overwhelmed by the imperial outreach of the USA.
Imagine how miserable their lives would have been if they had been conquered, their lands and money seized and their resources ruthlessly exploited while anyone who resisted was shot.
The only one of those which are not part of the present USA is the Phillippines and it was only held for 50 years by the US before being given independence after being part of the Spanish Empire.
To be an Empire you have to have taken control of large numbers of countries and territories which are not part of your home nation
Says who? Says you?
I thought that was a generally accepted definition of an empire? A large territory consisting of vassal states.
So did France not have an empire because they integrated their colonial possessions into France proper?
The French Empire covered most of North Africa, Vietnam, Syria etc it was far larger than the extent of any US overseas possessions ever was and while Algeria may have been incorporated within France, Morocco, Vietnam, Syria etc were not
Oh, so is it only an Empire if the possessions are "overseas"? That rules out the Russian Empire I guess.
Alaska says hello.
Did Russia cease to be an Empire when it sold Alaska?
No, it was a large territory consisting of several distinct peoples ruled by a single authority. As I said earlier, one of the generally accepted definitions of an empire.
"distinct peoples" is arbitrary. Is modern Spain an Empire?
Is England under HYUFD an Empire? He did say how much he apprtoved of General Franco the other day.
No, England is a country, the UK a sovereign country and union
I will remind you of that next time you argue that English Tory MPs should always be allowed to override the democratically expressed will of the Scottish people.
Scots reaffirmed their commitment to the Union in the once in a generation 2014 referendum
Away and play with your spinal pad and pith helmet.
And you know you are losing the argument when you come up with the same old lie about generations.
The argument was won in 2014 for a generation, just nationalists like you never accepted the result
The republicans won;t win in 2024 or ever again, no matter who they put up.
The party is now totally divided between the Trump wing and the McCain/Romney rump. The former now loathe the latter more than the democrats for not fighting with Trump against what they see as widespread vote rigging.
Meanwhile Joe Biden is intent on giving up to 20 million illegal immigrants citizenship as one of his first acts. Plus the immigration gates will be re-opened to many millions more.
Wonder who they are going to vote for.
Its over for the republicans. And right wing politics in America.
No, eventually they'll get tired of losing. It took the Tory party 8 years until they made Dave leader.
Nah the numbers are against you. A right wing coalition of any kind will be impossible after team Biden change America's demographics like they intend to.
America today. South Africa one day. Not that that's necessarily a bad thing. But it would change the balance of the world enormously.
Why do you assume Hispanic Americans will never vote conservative ? That’s a very odd opinion.
@contrarian, don't despair. This is an interesting piece from the NYT
The point: education more than ethnicity is likely to be the key determinant factor moving forwards. The news there is quite positive from a GOP standpoint: while student enrolment went up well over 40% from 1999 to 2011, it has actually been declining for the past few years and the projections are for a flatlining i.e. down as a % of the population. So, while the Democrats may have been boosted by the 1999-2011 growth, that engine of growth is slowing down.
Also, the values thing is the key. Black and Hispanic voters generally have more conservative values. The shift has already started to the GOP on the Republican side and, for young Black males, it is starting (remember many older Black voters have a very strong affinity to the Democrat party).
FWIW, I don't think that Biden will get 20m illegal immigrants made citizens - part because of the courts, part the Senate (Manchin wouldn't vote for it for a start and the AZ senators may have some qualms) and also because the political benefits may not be so great if illegal immigrants are concentrated in Democrat cities / states and such a measures means the loss of white votes.
One other point. It can be easy to overlook the shifts. Ohio, Iowa and, crucially, Florida are looking like safer Republican bets. Yes, Georgia and Arizona have gone the other way but the Democrats in 2024 are far more stretched in terms of defence - those two states, PA, WI and MI will all require considerable defending. For the Republicans, probably NC is the only one that looks vulnerable (I doubt the Democrats will go big on Texas next time).
Cheering the decline in educational standards for political partisanship is probably a good leading indicator for the decline of a once great empire!
The USA has never really been an Empire, a superpower yes but not an Empire
It’s a good job the people of Hawaii, the Philippines, Puerto Rico, Dakota, Oklahoma and New Mexico weren’t overwhelmed by the imperial outreach of the USA.
Imagine how miserable their lives would have been if they had been conquered, their lands and money seized and their resources ruthlessly exploited while anyone who resisted was shot.
The only one of those which are not part of the present USA is the Phillippines and it was only held for 50 years by the US before being given independence after being part of the Spanish Empire.
To be an Empire you have to have taken control of large numbers of countries and territories which are not part of your home nation
Says who? Says you?
I thought that was a generally accepted definition of an empire? A large territory consisting of vassal states.
So did France not have an empire because they integrated their colonial possessions into France proper?
The French Empire covered most of North Africa, Vietnam, Syria etc it was far larger than the extent of any US overseas possessions ever was and while Algeria may have been incorporated within France, Morocco, Vietnam, Syria etc were not
Oh, so is it only an Empire if the possessions are "overseas"? That rules out the Russian Empire I guess.
Alaska says hello.
Did Russia cease to be an Empire when it sold Alaska?
No, it was a large territory consisting of several distinct peoples ruled by a single authority. As I said earlier, one of the generally accepted definitions of an empire.
"distinct peoples" is arbitrary. Is modern Spain an Empire?
Is England under HYUFD an Empire? He did say how much he apprtoved of General Franco the other day.
No, England is a country, the UK a sovereign country and union
I will remind you of that next time you argue that English Tory MPs should always be allowed to override the democratically expressed will of the Scottish people.
Scots reaffirmed their commitment to the Union in the once in a generation 2014 referendum
Away and play with your spinal pad and pith helmet.
And you know you are losing the argument when you come up with the same old lie about generations.
As far as I'm concerned we are in a new generation now anyway.
1993 to 2020 was a generation of EU membership that faded into history. The last Sindyref under Salmond fell in that EU membership generation.
Now we are entering a new era of post Brexit politics. Nicola Sturgeon can be Picard in the Next Generation referendum.
The republicans won;t win in 2024 or ever again, no matter who they put up.
The party is now totally divided between the Trump wing and the McCain/Romney rump. The former now loathe the latter more than the democrats for not fighting with Trump against what they see as widespread vote rigging.
Meanwhile Joe Biden is intent on giving up to 20 million illegal immigrants citizenship as one of his first acts. Plus the immigration gates will be re-opened to many millions more.
Wonder who they are going to vote for.
Its over for the republicans. And right wing politics in America.
No, eventually they'll get tired of losing. It took the Tory party 8 years until they made Dave leader.
Nah the numbers are against you. A right wing coalition of any kind will be impossible after team Biden change America's demographics like they intend to.
America today. South Africa one day. Not that that's necessarily a bad thing. But it would change the balance of the world enormously.
Why do you assume Hispanic Americans will never vote conservative ? That’s a very odd opinion.
@contrarian, don't despair. This is an interesting piece from the NYT
The point: education more than ethnicity is likely to be the key determinant factor moving forwards. The news there is quite positive from a GOP standpoint: while student enrolment went up well over 40% from 1999 to 2011, it has actually been declining for the past few years and the projections are for a flatlining i.e. down as a % of the population. So, while the Democrats may have been boosted by the 1999-2011 growth, that engine of growth is slowing down.
Also, the values thing is the key. Black and Hispanic voters generally have more conservative values. The shift has already started to the GOP on the Republican side and, for young Black males, it is starting (remember many older Black voters have a very strong affinity to the Democrat party).
FWIW, I don't think that Biden will get 20m illegal immigrants made citizens - part because of the courts, part the Senate (Manchin wouldn't vote for it for a start and the AZ senators may have some qualms) and also because the political benefits may not be so great if illegal immigrants are concentrated in Democrat cities / states and such a measures means the loss of white votes.
One other point. It can be easy to overlook the shifts. Ohio, Iowa and, crucially, Florida are looking like safer Republican bets. Yes, Georgia and Arizona have gone the other way but the Democrats in 2024 are far more stretched in terms of defence - those two states, PA, WI and MI will all require considerable defending. For the Republicans, probably NC is the only one that looks vulnerable (I doubt the Democrats will go big on Texas next time).
Cheering the decline in educational standards for political partisanship is probably a good leading indicator for the decline of a once great empire!
The USA has never really been an Empire, a superpower yes but not an Empire
It’s a good job the people of Hawaii, the Philippines, Puerto Rico, Dakota, Oklahoma and New Mexico weren’t overwhelmed by the imperial outreach of the USA.
Imagine how miserable their lives would have been if they had been conquered, their lands and money seized and their resources ruthlessly exploited while anyone who resisted was shot.
The only one of those which are not part of the present USA is the Phillippines and it was only held for 50 years by the US before being given independence after being part of the Spanish Empire.
To be an Empire you have to have taken control of large numbers of countries and territories which are not part of your home nation
Says who? Says you?
I thought that was a generally accepted definition of an empire? A large territory consisting of vassal states.
So did France not have an empire because they integrated their colonial possessions into France proper?
The French Empire covered most of North Africa, Vietnam, Syria etc it was far larger than the extent of any US overseas possessions ever was and while Algeria may have been incorporated within France, Morocco, Vietnam, Syria etc were not
Oh, so is it only an Empire if the possessions are "overseas"? That rules out the Russian Empire I guess.
Alaska says hello.
Did Russia cease to be an Empire when it sold Alaska?
No, it was a large territory consisting of several distinct peoples ruled by a single authority. As I said earlier, one of the generally accepted definitions of an empire.
"distinct peoples" is arbitrary. Is modern Spain an Empire?
Is England under HYUFD an Empire? He did say how much he apprtoved of General Franco the other day.
No, England is a country, the UK a sovereign country and union
I will remind you of that next time you argue that English Tory MPs should always be allowed to override the democratically expressed will of the Scottish people.
Scots reaffirmed their commitment to the Union in the once in a generation 2014 referendum
The republicans won;t win in 2024 or ever again, no matter who they put up.
The party is now totally divided between the Trump wing and the McCain/Romney rump. The former now loathe the latter more than the democrats for not fighting with Trump against what they see as widespread vote rigging.
Meanwhile Joe Biden is intent on giving up to 20 million illegal immigrants citizenship as one of his first acts. Plus the immigration gates will be re-opened to many millions more.
Wonder who they are going to vote for.
Its over for the republicans. And right wing politics in America.
No, eventually they'll get tired of losing. It took the Tory party 8 years until they made Dave leader.
Nah the numbers are against you. A right wing coalition of any kind will be impossible after team Biden change America's demographics like they intend to.
America today. South Africa one day. Not that that's necessarily a bad thing. But it would change the balance of the world enormously.
Why do you assume Hispanic Americans will never vote conservative ? That’s a very odd opinion.
@contrarian, don't despair. This is an interesting piece from the NYT
The point: education more than ethnicity is likely to be the key determinant factor moving forwards. The news there is quite positive from a GOP standpoint: while student enrolment went up well over 40% from 1999 to 2011, it has actually been declining for the past few years and the projections are for a flatlining i.e. down as a % of the population. So, while the Democrats may have been boosted by the 1999-2011 growth, that engine of growth is slowing down.
Also, the values thing is the key. Black and Hispanic voters generally have more conservative values. The shift has already started to the GOP on the Republican side and, for young Black males, it is starting (remember many older Black voters have a very strong affinity to the Democrat party).
FWIW, I don't think that Biden will get 20m illegal immigrants made citizens - part because of the courts, part the Senate (Manchin wouldn't vote for it for a start and the AZ senators may have some qualms) and also because the political benefits may not be so great if illegal immigrants are concentrated in Democrat cities / states and such a measures means the loss of white votes.
One other point. It can be easy to overlook the shifts. Ohio, Iowa and, crucially, Florida are looking like safer Republican bets. Yes, Georgia and Arizona have gone the other way but the Democrats in 2024 are far more stretched in terms of defence - those two states, PA, WI and MI will all require considerable defending. For the Republicans, probably NC is the only one that looks vulnerable (I doubt the Democrats will go big on Texas next time).
Cheering the decline in educational standards for political partisanship is probably a good leading indicator for the decline of a once great empire!
The USA has never really been an Empire, a superpower yes but not an Empire
It’s a good job the people of Hawaii, the Philippines, Puerto Rico, Dakota, Oklahoma and New Mexico weren’t overwhelmed by the imperial outreach of the USA.
Imagine how miserable their lives would have been if they had been conquered, their lands and money seized and their resources ruthlessly exploited while anyone who resisted was shot.
The only one of those which are not part of the present USA is the Phillippines and it was only held for 50 years by the US before being given independence after being part of the Spanish Empire.
To be an Empire you have to have taken control of large numbers of countries and territories which are not part of your home nation
Says who? Says you?
I thought that was a generally accepted definition of an empire? A large territory consisting of vassal states.
So did France not have an empire because they integrated their colonial possessions into France proper?
The French Empire covered most of North Africa, Vietnam, Syria etc it was far larger than the extent of any US overseas possessions ever was and while Algeria may have been incorporated within France, Morocco, Vietnam, Syria etc were not
Oh, so is it only an Empire if the possessions are "overseas"? That rules out the Russian Empire I guess.
Alaska says hello.
Did Russia cease to be an Empire when it sold Alaska?
No, it was a large territory consisting of several distinct peoples ruled by a single authority. As I said earlier, one of the generally accepted definitions of an empire.
"distinct peoples" is arbitrary. Is modern Spain an Empire?
I literally used the definition from the first sentence in the wikipedia article.
You're going round in circles.
If Russia was an Empire, If Brazil was an Empire, if Austria-Hungary was an Empire, then the USA was an Empire. The fact that the continuous USA is still one nation state is neither here nor there.
No that doesn't follow as there's another difference. Why was Brazil an Empire and why did it cease to be one?
Brazil was an Empire because it had an Emperor, it ceases to be an Empire when it became a republic.
The USA has always been a republic.
Then @HYUFD should have stated that an empire is only an "empire" if it has an "emperor" but that wasn't his argument.
Not required, though often the case, required is control of multiple territories and peoples outside the home nation
'An empire is a sovereign state consisting of several territories and peoples subject to a single ruling authority, often an emperor.'
The republicans won;t win in 2024 or ever again, no matter who they put up.
The party is now totally divided between the Trump wing and the McCain/Romney rump. The former now loathe the latter more than the democrats for not fighting with Trump against what they see as widespread vote rigging.
Meanwhile Joe Biden is intent on giving up to 20 million illegal immigrants citizenship as one of his first acts. Plus the immigration gates will be re-opened to many millions more.
Wonder who they are going to vote for.
Its over for the republicans. And right wing politics in America.
No, eventually they'll get tired of losing. It took the Tory party 8 years until they made Dave leader.
Nah the numbers are against you. A right wing coalition of any kind will be impossible after team Biden change America's demographics like they intend to.
America today. South Africa one day. Not that that's necessarily a bad thing. But it would change the balance of the world enormously.
Why do you assume Hispanic Americans will never vote conservative ? That’s a very odd opinion.
@contrarian, don't despair. This is an interesting piece from the NYT
The point: education more than ethnicity is likely to be the key determinant factor moving forwards. The news there is quite positive from a GOP standpoint: while student enrolment went up well over 40% from 1999 to 2011, it has actually been declining for the past few years and the projections are for a flatlining i.e. down as a % of the population. So, while the Democrats may have been boosted by the 1999-2011 growth, that engine of growth is slowing down.
Also, the values thing is the key. Black and Hispanic voters generally have more conservative values. The shift has already started to the GOP on the Republican side and, for young Black males, it is starting (remember many older Black voters have a very strong affinity to the Democrat party).
FWIW, I don't think that Biden will get 20m illegal immigrants made citizens - part because of the courts, part the Senate (Manchin wouldn't vote for it for a start and the AZ senators may have some qualms) and also because the political benefits may not be so great if illegal immigrants are concentrated in Democrat cities / states and such a measures means the loss of white votes.
One other point. It can be easy to overlook the shifts. Ohio, Iowa and, crucially, Florida are looking like safer Republican bets. Yes, Georgia and Arizona have gone the other way but the Democrats in 2024 are far more stretched in terms of defence - those two states, PA, WI and MI will all require considerable defending. For the Republicans, probably NC is the only one that looks vulnerable (I doubt the Democrats will go big on Texas next time).
Cheering the decline in educational standards for political partisanship is probably a good leading indicator for the decline of a once great empire!
The USA has never really been an Empire, a superpower yes but not an Empire
It’s a good job the people of Hawaii, the Philippines, Puerto Rico, Dakota, Oklahoma and New Mexico weren’t overwhelmed by the imperial outreach of the USA.
Imagine how miserable their lives would have been if they had been conquered, their lands and money seized and their resources ruthlessly exploited while anyone who resisted was shot.
The only one of those which are not part of the present USA is the Phillippines and it was only held for 50 years by the US before being given independence after being part of the Spanish Empire.
To be an Empire you have to have taken control of large numbers of countries and territories which are not part of your home nation
Says who? Says you?
I thought that was a generally accepted definition of an empire? A large territory consisting of vassal states.
So did France not have an empire because they integrated their colonial possessions into France proper?
The French Empire covered most of North Africa, Vietnam, Syria etc it was far larger than the extent of any US overseas possessions ever was and while Algeria may have been incorporated within France, Morocco, Vietnam, Syria etc were not
Oh, so is it only an Empire if the possessions are "overseas"? That rules out the Russian Empire I guess.
Alaska says hello.
Did Russia cease to be an Empire when it sold Alaska?
No, it was a large territory consisting of several distinct peoples ruled by a single authority. As I said earlier, one of the generally accepted definitions of an empire.
"distinct peoples" is arbitrary. Is modern Spain an Empire?
Is England under HYUFD an Empire? He did say how much he apprtoved of General Franco the other day.
No, England is a country, the UK a sovereign country and union
I will remind you of that next time you argue that English Tory MPs should always be allowed to override the democratically expressed will of the Scottish people.
Scots reaffirmed their commitment to the Union in the once in a generation 2014 referendum
Away and play with your spinal pad and pith helmet.
And you know you are losing the argument when you come up with the same old lie about generations.
As far as I'm concerned we are in a new generation now anyway.
1993 to 2020 was a generation of EU membership that faded into history. The last Sindyref under Salmond fell in that EU membership generation.
Now we are entering a new era of post Brexit politics. Nicola Sturgeon can be Picard in the Next Generation referendum.
You are a non Tory, Nat appeaser anyway.
However even Canada did not give Quebec its second independence referendum until 15 years after the first, which means 2029 at the earliest
The republicans won;t win in 2024 or ever again, no matter who they put up.
The party is now totally divided between the Trump wing and the McCain/Romney rump. The former now loathe the latter more than the democrats for not fighting with Trump against what they see as widespread vote rigging.
Meanwhile Joe Biden is intent on giving up to 20 million illegal immigrants citizenship as one of his first acts. Plus the immigration gates will be re-opened to many millions more.
Wonder who they are going to vote for.
Its over for the republicans. And right wing politics in America.
No, eventually they'll get tired of losing. It took the Tory party 8 years until they made Dave leader.
Nah the numbers are against you. A right wing coalition of any kind will be impossible after team Biden change America's demographics like they intend to.
America today. South Africa one day. Not that that's necessarily a bad thing. But it would change the balance of the world enormously.
Why do you assume Hispanic Americans will never vote conservative ? That’s a very odd opinion.
@contrarian, don't despair. This is an interesting piece from the NYT
The point: education more than ethnicity is likely to be the key determinant factor moving forwards. The news there is quite positive from a GOP standpoint: while student enrolment went up well over 40% from 1999 to 2011, it has actually been declining for the past few years and the projections are for a flatlining i.e. down as a % of the population. So, while the Democrats may have been boosted by the 1999-2011 growth, that engine of growth is slowing down.
Also, the values thing is the key. Black and Hispanic voters generally have more conservative values. The shift has already started to the GOP on the Republican side and, for young Black males, it is starting (remember many older Black voters have a very strong affinity to the Democrat party).
FWIW, I don't think that Biden will get 20m illegal immigrants made citizens - part because of the courts, part the Senate (Manchin wouldn't vote for it for a start and the AZ senators may have some qualms) and also because the political benefits may not be so great if illegal immigrants are concentrated in Democrat cities / states and such a measures means the loss of white votes.
One other point. It can be easy to overlook the shifts. Ohio, Iowa and, crucially, Florida are looking like safer Republican bets. Yes, Georgia and Arizona have gone the other way but the Democrats in 2024 are far more stretched in terms of defence - those two states, PA, WI and MI will all require considerable defending. For the Republicans, probably NC is the only one that looks vulnerable (I doubt the Democrats will go big on Texas next time).
Cheering the decline in educational standards for political partisanship is probably a good leading indicator for the decline of a once great empire!
The USA has never really been an Empire, a superpower yes but not an Empire
It’s a good job the people of Hawaii, the Philippines, Puerto Rico, Dakota, Oklahoma and New Mexico weren’t overwhelmed by the imperial outreach of the USA.
Imagine how miserable their lives would have been if they had been conquered, their lands and money seized and their resources ruthlessly exploited while anyone who resisted was shot.
The only one of those which are not part of the present USA is the Phillippines and it was only held for 50 years by the US before being given independence after being part of the Spanish Empire.
To be an Empire you have to have taken control of large numbers of countries and territories which are not part of your home nation
Says who? Says you?
I thought that was a generally accepted definition of an empire? A large territory consisting of vassal states.
So did France not have an empire because they integrated their colonial possessions into France proper?
The French Empire covered most of North Africa, Vietnam, Syria etc it was far larger than the extent of any US overseas possessions ever was and while Algeria may have been incorporated within France, Morocco, Vietnam, Syria etc were not
Oh, so is it only an Empire if the possessions are "overseas"? That rules out the Russian Empire I guess.
Alaska says hello.
Did Russia cease to be an Empire when it sold Alaska?
No, it was a large territory consisting of several distinct peoples ruled by a single authority. As I said earlier, one of the generally accepted definitions of an empire.
"distinct peoples" is arbitrary. Is modern Spain an Empire?
I literally used the definition from the first sentence in the wikipedia article.
You're going round in circles.
If Russia was an Empire, If Brazil was an Empire, if Austria-Hungary was an Empire, then the USA was an Empire. The fact that the continuous USA is still one nation state is neither here nor there.
From the same article:
The United States is not traditionally recognized as an empire, in part because the U.S. adopted a different political system from those that previous empires had used. Despite these systematic differences, the political objectives and strategies of the United States government have been quite similar to those of previous empires.[67]
And?
You are saying the US was an empire, but that view is apparently not widespread.
Not among Americans. But then, they think Washington wasn’t a traitor and pineapple goes well with pizza.
The republicans won;t win in 2024 or ever again, no matter who they put up.
The party is now totally divided between the Trump wing and the McCain/Romney rump. The former now loathe the latter more than the democrats for not fighting with Trump against what they see as widespread vote rigging.
Meanwhile Joe Biden is intent on giving up to 20 million illegal immigrants citizenship as one of his first acts. Plus the immigration gates will be re-opened to many millions more.
Wonder who they are going to vote for.
Its over for the republicans. And right wing politics in America.
No, eventually they'll get tired of losing. It took the Tory party 8 years until they made Dave leader.
Nah the numbers are against you. A right wing coalition of any kind will be impossible after team Biden change America's demographics like they intend to.
America today. South Africa one day. Not that that's necessarily a bad thing. But it would change the balance of the world enormously.
Why do you assume Hispanic Americans will never vote conservative ? That’s a very odd opinion.
@contrarian, don't despair. This is an interesting piece from the NYT
The point: education more than ethnicity is likely to be the key determinant factor moving forwards. The news there is quite positive from a GOP standpoint: while student enrolment went up well over 40% from 1999 to 2011, it has actually been declining for the past few years and the projections are for a flatlining i.e. down as a % of the population. So, while the Democrats may have been boosted by the 1999-2011 growth, that engine of growth is slowing down.
Also, the values thing is the key. Black and Hispanic voters generally have more conservative values. The shift has already started to the GOP on the Republican side and, for young Black males, it is starting (remember many older Black voters have a very strong affinity to the Democrat party).
FWIW, I don't think that Biden will get 20m illegal immigrants made citizens - part because of the courts, part the Senate (Manchin wouldn't vote for it for a start and the AZ senators may have some qualms) and also because the political benefits may not be so great if illegal immigrants are concentrated in Democrat cities / states and such a measures means the loss of white votes.
One other point. It can be easy to overlook the shifts. Ohio, Iowa and, crucially, Florida are looking like safer Republican bets. Yes, Georgia and Arizona have gone the other way but the Democrats in 2024 are far more stretched in terms of defence - those two states, PA, WI and MI will all require considerable defending. For the Republicans, probably NC is the only one that looks vulnerable (I doubt the Democrats will go big on Texas next time).
Cheering the decline in educational standards for political partisanship is probably a good leading indicator for the decline of a once great empire!
The USA has never really been an Empire, a superpower yes but not an Empire
It’s a good job the people of Hawaii, the Philippines, Puerto Rico, Dakota, Oklahoma and New Mexico weren’t overwhelmed by the imperial outreach of the USA.
Imagine how miserable their lives would have been if they had been conquered, their lands and money seized and their resources ruthlessly exploited while anyone who resisted was shot.
The only one of those which are not part of the present USA is the Phillippines and it was only held for 50 years by the US before being given independence after being part of the Spanish Empire.
To be an Empire you have to have taken control of large numbers of countries and territories which are not part of your home nation
Says who? Says you?
I thought that was a generally accepted definition of an empire? A large territory consisting of vassal states.
So did France not have an empire because they integrated their colonial possessions into France proper?
The French Empire covered most of North Africa, Vietnam, Syria etc it was far larger than the extent of any US overseas possessions ever was and while Algeria may have been incorporated within France, Morocco, Vietnam, Syria etc were not
Oh, so is it only an Empire if the possessions are "overseas"? That rules out the Russian Empire I guess.
Alaska says hello.
Did Russia cease to be an Empire when it sold Alaska?
No, it was a large territory consisting of several distinct peoples ruled by a single authority. As I said earlier, one of the generally accepted definitions of an empire.
"distinct peoples" is arbitrary. Is modern Spain an Empire?
I literally used the definition from the first sentence in the wikipedia article.
You're going round in circles.
If Russia was an Empire, If Brazil was an Empire, if Austria-Hungary was an Empire, then the USA was an Empire. The fact that the continuous USA is still one nation state is neither here nor there.
From the same article:
The United States is not traditionally recognized as an empire, in part because the U.S. adopted a different political system from those that previous empires had used. Despite these systematic differences, the political objectives and strategies of the United States government have been quite similar to those of previous empires.[67]
And?
You are saying the US was an empire, but that view is apparently not widespread.
Not among Americans. But then, they think Washington wasn’t a traitor and pineapple goes well with pizza.
Well, where did the pineapple come from in the first place?
The republicans won;t win in 2024 or ever again, no matter who they put up.
The party is now totally divided between the Trump wing and the McCain/Romney rump. The former now loathe the latter more than the democrats for not fighting with Trump against what they see as widespread vote rigging.
Meanwhile Joe Biden is intent on giving up to 20 million illegal immigrants citizenship as one of his first acts. Plus the immigration gates will be re-opened to many millions more.
Wonder who they are going to vote for.
Its over for the republicans. And right wing politics in America.
No, eventually they'll get tired of losing. It took the Tory party 8 years until they made Dave leader.
Nah the numbers are against you. A right wing coalition of any kind will be impossible after team Biden change America's demographics like they intend to.
America today. South Africa one day. Not that that's necessarily a bad thing. But it would change the balance of the world enormously.
Why do you assume Hispanic Americans will never vote conservative ? That’s a very odd opinion.
@contrarian, don't despair. This is an interesting piece from the NYT
The point: education more than ethnicity is likely to be the key determinant factor moving forwards. The news there is quite positive from a GOP standpoint: while student enrolment went up well over 40% from 1999 to 2011, it has actually been declining for the past few years and the projections are for a flatlining i.e. down as a % of the population. So, while the Democrats may have been boosted by the 1999-2011 growth, that engine of growth is slowing down.
Also, the values thing is the key. Black and Hispanic voters generally have more conservative values. The shift has already started to the GOP on the Republican side and, for young Black males, it is starting (remember many older Black voters have a very strong affinity to the Democrat party).
FWIW, I don't think that Biden will get 20m illegal immigrants made citizens - part because of the courts, part the Senate (Manchin wouldn't vote for it for a start and the AZ senators may have some qualms) and also because the political benefits may not be so great if illegal immigrants are concentrated in Democrat cities / states and such a measures means the loss of white votes.
One other point. It can be easy to overlook the shifts. Ohio, Iowa and, crucially, Florida are looking like safer Republican bets. Yes, Georgia and Arizona have gone the other way but the Democrats in 2024 are far more stretched in terms of defence - those two states, PA, WI and MI will all require considerable defending. For the Republicans, probably NC is the only one that looks vulnerable (I doubt the Democrats will go big on Texas next time).
Cheering the decline in educational standards for political partisanship is probably a good leading indicator for the decline of a once great empire!
The USA has never really been an Empire, a superpower yes but not an Empire
It’s a good job the people of Hawaii, the Philippines, Puerto Rico, Dakota, Oklahoma and New Mexico weren’t overwhelmed by the imperial outreach of the USA.
Imagine how miserable their lives would have been if they had been conquered, their lands and money seized and their resources ruthlessly exploited while anyone who resisted was shot.
The only one of those which are not part of the present USA is the Phillippines and it was only held for 50 years by the US before being given independence after being part of the Spanish Empire.
To be an Empire you have to have taken control of large numbers of countries and territories which are not part of your home nation
Says who? Says you?
I thought that was a generally accepted definition of an empire? A large territory consisting of vassal states.
So did France not have an empire because they integrated their colonial possessions into France proper?
The French Empire covered most of North Africa, Vietnam, Syria etc it was far larger than the extent of any US overseas possessions ever was and while Algeria may have been incorporated within France, Morocco, Vietnam, Syria etc were not
Oh, so is it only an Empire if the possessions are "overseas"? That rules out the Russian Empire I guess.
Alaska says hello.
Did Russia cease to be an Empire when it sold Alaska?
No, it was a large territory consisting of several distinct peoples ruled by a single authority. As I said earlier, one of the generally accepted definitions of an empire.
"distinct peoples" is arbitrary. Is modern Spain an Empire?
Is England under HYUFD an Empire? He did say how much he apprtoved of General Franco the other day.
No, England is a country, the UK a sovereign country and union
I will remind you of that next time you argue that English Tory MPs should always be allowed to override the democratically expressed will of the Scottish people.
Scots reaffirmed their commitment to the Union in the once in a generation 2014 referendum
Away and play with your spinal pad and pith helmet.
And you know you are losing the argument when you come up with the same old lie about generations.
As far as I'm concerned we are in a new generation now anyway.
1993 to 2020 was a generation of EU membership that faded into history. The last Sindyref under Salmond fell in that EU membership generation.
Now we are entering a new era of post Brexit politics. Nicola Sturgeon can be Picard in the Next Generation referendum.
You are a non Tory, Nat appeaser anyway.
However even Canada did not give Quebec its second independence referendum until 15 years after the first, which means 2029 at the earliest
For a slavish follower of an incurably English exceptionalist party you are remarkably keen to follow furriners slavisly.
The republicans won;t win in 2024 or ever again, no matter who they put up.
The party is now totally divided between the Trump wing and the McCain/Romney rump. The former now loathe the latter more than the democrats for not fighting with Trump against what they see as widespread vote rigging.
Meanwhile Joe Biden is intent on giving up to 20 million illegal immigrants citizenship as one of his first acts. Plus the immigration gates will be re-opened to many millions more.
Wonder who they are going to vote for.
Its over for the republicans. And right wing politics in America.
No, eventually they'll get tired of losing. It took the Tory party 8 years until they made Dave leader.
Nah the numbers are against you. A right wing coalition of any kind will be impossible after team Biden change America's demographics like they intend to.
America today. South Africa one day. Not that that's necessarily a bad thing. But it would change the balance of the world enormously.
Why do you assume Hispanic Americans will never vote conservative ? That’s a very odd opinion.
@contrarian, don't despair. This is an interesting piece from the NYT
The point: education more than ethnicity is likely to be the key determinant factor moving forwards. The news there is quite positive from a GOP standpoint: while student enrolment went up well over 40% from 1999 to 2011, it has actually been declining for the past few years and the projections are for a flatlining i.e. down as a % of the population. So, while the Democrats may have been boosted by the 1999-2011 growth, that engine of growth is slowing down.
Also, the values thing is the key. Black and Hispanic voters generally have more conservative values. The shift has already started to the GOP on the Republican side and, for young Black males, it is starting (remember many older Black voters have a very strong affinity to the Democrat party).
FWIW, I don't think that Biden will get 20m illegal immigrants made citizens - part because of the courts, part the Senate (Manchin wouldn't vote for it for a start and the AZ senators may have some qualms) and also because the political benefits may not be so great if illegal immigrants are concentrated in Democrat cities / states and such a measures means the loss of white votes.
One other point. It can be easy to overlook the shifts. Ohio, Iowa and, crucially, Florida are looking like safer Republican bets. Yes, Georgia and Arizona have gone the other way but the Democrats in 2024 are far more stretched in terms of defence - those two states, PA, WI and MI will all require considerable defending. For the Republicans, probably NC is the only one that looks vulnerable (I doubt the Democrats will go big on Texas next time).
Cheering the decline in educational standards for political partisanship is probably a good leading indicator for the decline of a once great empire!
The USA has never really been an Empire, a superpower yes but not an Empire
It’s a good job the people of Hawaii, the Philippines, Puerto Rico, Dakota, Oklahoma and New Mexico weren’t overwhelmed by the imperial outreach of the USA.
Imagine how miserable their lives would have been if they had been conquered, their lands and money seized and their resources ruthlessly exploited while anyone who resisted was shot.
The only one of those which are not part of the present USA is the Phillippines and it was only held for 50 years by the US before being given independence after being part of the Spanish Empire.
To be an Empire you have to have taken control of large numbers of countries and territories which are not part of your home nation
Says who? Says you?
I thought that was a generally accepted definition of an empire? A large territory consisting of vassal states.
So did France not have an empire because they integrated their colonial possessions into France proper?
The French Empire covered most of North Africa, Vietnam, Syria etc it was far larger than the extent of any US overseas possessions ever was and while Algeria may have been incorporated within France, Morocco, Vietnam, Syria etc were not
Oh, so is it only an Empire if the possessions are "overseas"? That rules out the Russian Empire I guess.
Alaska says hello.
Did Russia cease to be an Empire when it sold Alaska?
No, it was a large territory consisting of several distinct peoples ruled by a single authority. As I said earlier, one of the generally accepted definitions of an empire.
"distinct peoples" is arbitrary. Is modern Spain an Empire?
Is England under HYUFD an Empire? He did say how much he apprtoved of General Franco the other day.
No, England is a country, the UK a sovereign country and union
I will remind you of that next time you argue that English Tory MPs should always be allowed to override the democratically expressed will of the Scottish people.
Scots reaffirmed their commitment to the Union in the once in a generation 2014 referendum
Away and play with your spinal pad and pith helmet.
And you know you are losing the argument when you come up with the same old lie about generations.
As far as I'm concerned we are in a new generation now anyway.
1993 to 2020 was a generation of EU membership that faded into history. The last Sindyref under Salmond fell in that EU membership generation.
Now we are entering a new era of post Brexit politics. Nicola Sturgeon can be Picard in the Next Generation referendum.
Pompous, self-righteous, somewhat duplicitous, manipulated by a more powerful figure, running things on blatant cronyism and somehow never quite getting to the next step in her career?
The republicans won;t win in 2024 or ever again, no matter who they put up.
The party is now totally divided between the Trump wing and the McCain/Romney rump. The former now loathe the latter more than the democrats for not fighting with Trump against what they see as widespread vote rigging.
Meanwhile Joe Biden is intent on giving up to 20 million illegal immigrants citizenship as one of his first acts. Plus the immigration gates will be re-opened to many millions more.
Wonder who they are going to vote for.
Its over for the republicans. And right wing politics in America.
No, eventually they'll get tired of losing. It took the Tory party 8 years until they made Dave leader.
Nah the numbers are against you. A right wing coalition of any kind will be impossible after team Biden change America's demographics like they intend to.
America today. South Africa one day. Not that that's necessarily a bad thing. But it would change the balance of the world enormously.
Why do you assume Hispanic Americans will never vote conservative ? That’s a very odd opinion.
@contrarian, don't despair. This is an interesting piece from the NYT
The point: education more than ethnicity is likely to be the key determinant factor moving forwards. The news there is quite positive from a GOP standpoint: while student enrolment went up well over 40% from 1999 to 2011, it has actually been declining for the past few years and the projections are for a flatlining i.e. down as a % of the population. So, while the Democrats may have been boosted by the 1999-2011 growth, that engine of growth is slowing down.
Also, the values thing is the key. Black and Hispanic voters generally have more conservative values. The shift has already started to the GOP on the Republican side and, for young Black males, it is starting (remember many older Black voters have a very strong affinity to the Democrat party).
FWIW, I don't think that Biden will get 20m illegal immigrants made citizens - part because of the courts, part the Senate (Manchin wouldn't vote for it for a start and the AZ senators may have some qualms) and also because the political benefits may not be so great if illegal immigrants are concentrated in Democrat cities / states and such a measures means the loss of white votes.
One other point. It can be easy to overlook the shifts. Ohio, Iowa and, crucially, Florida are looking like safer Republican bets. Yes, Georgia and Arizona have gone the other way but the Democrats in 2024 are far more stretched in terms of defence - those two states, PA, WI and MI will all require considerable defending. For the Republicans, probably NC is the only one that looks vulnerable (I doubt the Democrats will go big on Texas next time).
Cheering the decline in educational standards for political partisanship is probably a good leading indicator for the decline of a once great empire!
The USA has never really been an Empire, a superpower yes but not an Empire
It’s a good job the people of Hawaii, the Philippines, Puerto Rico, Dakota, Oklahoma and New Mexico weren’t overwhelmed by the imperial outreach of the USA.
Imagine how miserable their lives would have been if they had been conquered, their lands and money seized and their resources ruthlessly exploited while anyone who resisted was shot.
The only one of those which are not part of the present USA is the Phillippines and it was only held for 50 years by the US before being given independence after being part of the Spanish Empire.
To be an Empire you have to have taken control of large numbers of countries and territories which are not part of your home nation
Says who? Says you?
I thought that was a generally accepted definition of an empire? A large territory consisting of vassal states.
So did France not have an empire because they integrated their colonial possessions into France proper?
The French Empire covered most of North Africa, Vietnam, Syria etc it was far larger than the extent of any US overseas possessions ever was and while Algeria may have been incorporated within France, Morocco, Vietnam, Syria etc were not
Oh, so is it only an Empire if the possessions are "overseas"? That rules out the Russian Empire I guess.
Alaska says hello.
Did Russia cease to be an Empire when it sold Alaska?
No, it was a large territory consisting of several distinct peoples ruled by a single authority. As I said earlier, one of the generally accepted definitions of an empire.
"distinct peoples" is arbitrary. Is modern Spain an Empire?
I literally used the definition from the first sentence in the wikipedia article.
You're going round in circles.
If Russia was an Empire, If Brazil was an Empire, if Austria-Hungary was an Empire, then the USA was an Empire. The fact that the continuous USA is still one nation state is neither here nor there.
From the same article:
The United States is not traditionally recognized as an empire, in part because the U.S. adopted a different political system from those that previous empires had used. Despite these systematic differences, the political objectives and strategies of the United States government have been quite similar to those of previous empires.[67]
And?
You are saying the US was an empire, but that view is apparently not widespread.
Not among Americans. But then, they think Washington wasn’t a traitor and pineapple goes well with pizza.
Well, where did the pineapple come from in the first place?
The republicans won;t win in 2024 or ever again, no matter who they put up.
The party is now totally divided between the Trump wing and the McCain/Romney rump. The former now loathe the latter more than the democrats for not fighting with Trump against what they see as widespread vote rigging.
Meanwhile Joe Biden is intent on giving up to 20 million illegal immigrants citizenship as one of his first acts. Plus the immigration gates will be re-opened to many millions more.
Wonder who they are going to vote for.
Its over for the republicans. And right wing politics in America.
No, eventually they'll get tired of losing. It took the Tory party 8 years until they made Dave leader.
Nah the numbers are against you. A right wing coalition of any kind will be impossible after team Biden change America's demographics like they intend to.
America today. South Africa one day. Not that that's necessarily a bad thing. But it would change the balance of the world enormously.
Why do you assume Hispanic Americans will never vote conservative ? That’s a very odd opinion.
@contrarian, don't despair. This is an interesting piece from the NYT
The point: education more than ethnicity is likely to be the key determinant factor moving forwards. The news there is quite positive from a GOP standpoint: while student enrolment went up well over 40% from 1999 to 2011, it has actually been declining for the past few years and the projections are for a flatlining i.e. down as a % of the population. So, while the Democrats may have been boosted by the 1999-2011 growth, that engine of growth is slowing down.
Also, the values thing is the key. Black and Hispanic voters generally have more conservative values. The shift has already started to the GOP on the Republican side and, for young Black males, it is starting (remember many older Black voters have a very strong affinity to the Democrat party).
FWIW, I don't think that Biden will get 20m illegal immigrants made citizens - part because of the courts, part the Senate (Manchin wouldn't vote for it for a start and the AZ senators may have some qualms) and also because the political benefits may not be so great if illegal immigrants are concentrated in Democrat cities / states and such a measures means the loss of white votes.
One other point. It can be easy to overlook the shifts. Ohio, Iowa and, crucially, Florida are looking like safer Republican bets. Yes, Georgia and Arizona have gone the other way but the Democrats in 2024 are far more stretched in terms of defence - those two states, PA, WI and MI will all require considerable defending. For the Republicans, probably NC is the only one that looks vulnerable (I doubt the Democrats will go big on Texas next time).
Cheering the decline in educational standards for political partisanship is probably a good leading indicator for the decline of a once great empire!
The USA has never really been an Empire, a superpower yes but not an Empire
It’s a good job the people of Hawaii, the Philippines, Puerto Rico, Dakota, Oklahoma and New Mexico weren’t overwhelmed by the imperial outreach of the USA.
Imagine how miserable their lives would have been if they had been conquered, their lands and money seized and their resources ruthlessly exploited while anyone who resisted was shot.
The only one of those which are not part of the present USA is the Phillippines and it was only held for 50 years by the US before being given independence after being part of the Spanish Empire.
To be an Empire you have to have taken control of large numbers of countries and territories which are not part of your home nation
Says who? Says you?
I thought that was a generally accepted definition of an empire? A large territory consisting of vassal states.
So did France not have an empire because they integrated their colonial possessions into France proper?
The French Empire covered most of North Africa, Vietnam, Syria etc it was far larger than the extent of any US overseas possessions ever was and while Algeria may have been incorporated within France, Morocco, Vietnam, Syria etc were not
Oh, so is it only an Empire if the possessions are "overseas"? That rules out the Russian Empire I guess.
Alaska says hello.
Did Russia cease to be an Empire when it sold Alaska?
No, it was a large territory consisting of several distinct peoples ruled by a single authority. As I said earlier, one of the generally accepted definitions of an empire.
"distinct peoples" is arbitrary. Is modern Spain an Empire?
Is England under HYUFD an Empire? He did say how much he apprtoved of General Franco the other day.
No, England is a country, the UK a sovereign country and union
I will remind you of that next time you argue that English Tory MPs should always be allowed to override the democratically expressed will of the Scottish people.
Scots reaffirmed their commitment to the Union in the once in a generation 2014 referendum
Away and play with your spinal pad and pith helmet.
And you know you are losing the argument when you come up with the same old lie about generations.
As far as I'm concerned we are in a new generation now anyway.
1993 to 2020 was a generation of EU membership that faded into history. The last Sindyref under Salmond fell in that EU membership generation.
Now we are entering a new era of post Brexit politics. Nicola Sturgeon can be Picard in the Next Generation referendum.
You are a non Tory, Nat appeaser anyway.
However even Canada did not give Quebec its second independence referendum until 15 years after the first, which means 2029 at the earliest
I'm a democrat, it depends for me what the Scottish voters vote for.
Canada did not "give" Quebec a referendum. 🤦🏻♂️ The Québécois got a referendum when they unilaterally voted to hold one, not when they were "given" one. Had the Québécois voted to hold theirs earlier that would have been their choice, if the Scots choose to hold one that is their choice.
The republicans won;t win in 2024 or ever again, no matter who they put up.
The party is now totally divided between the Trump wing and the McCain/Romney rump. The former now loathe the latter more than the democrats for not fighting with Trump against what they see as widespread vote rigging.
Meanwhile Joe Biden is intent on giving up to 20 million illegal immigrants citizenship as one of his first acts. Plus the immigration gates will be re-opened to many millions more.
Wonder who they are going to vote for.
Its over for the republicans. And right wing politics in America.
No, eventually they'll get tired of losing. It took the Tory party 8 years until they made Dave leader.
Nah the numbers are against you. A right wing coalition of any kind will be impossible after team Biden change America's demographics like they intend to.
America today. South Africa one day. Not that that's necessarily a bad thing. But it would change the balance of the world enormously.
Why do you assume Hispanic Americans will never vote conservative ? That’s a very odd opinion.
@contrarian, don't despair. This is an interesting piece from the NYT
The point: education more than ethnicity is likely to be the key determinant factor moving forwards. The news there is quite positive from a GOP standpoint: while student enrolment went up well over 40% from 1999 to 2011, it has actually been declining for the past few years and the projections are for a flatlining i.e. down as a % of the population. So, while the Democrats may have been boosted by the 1999-2011 growth, that engine of growth is slowing down.
Also, the values thing is the key. Black and Hispanic voters generally have more conservative values. The shift has already started to the GOP on the Republican side and, for young Black males, it is starting (remember many older Black voters have a very strong affinity to the Democrat party).
FWIW, I don't think that Biden will get 20m illegal immigrants made citizens - part because of the courts, part the Senate (Manchin wouldn't vote for it for a start and the AZ senators may have some qualms) and also because the political benefits may not be so great if illegal immigrants are concentrated in Democrat cities / states and such a measures means the loss of white votes.
One other point. It can be easy to overlook the shifts. Ohio, Iowa and, crucially, Florida are looking like safer Republican bets. Yes, Georgia and Arizona have gone the other way but the Democrats in 2024 are far more stretched in terms of defence - those two states, PA, WI and MI will all require considerable defending. For the Republicans, probably NC is the only one that looks vulnerable (I doubt the Democrats will go big on Texas next time).
Cheering the decline in educational standards for political partisanship is probably a good leading indicator for the decline of a once great empire!
The USA has never really been an Empire, a superpower yes but not an Empire
It’s a good job the people of Hawaii, the Philippines, Puerto Rico, Dakota, Oklahoma and New Mexico weren’t overwhelmed by the imperial outreach of the USA.
Imagine how miserable their lives would have been if they had been conquered, their lands and money seized and their resources ruthlessly exploited while anyone who resisted was shot.
The only one of those which are not part of the present USA is the Phillippines and it was only held for 50 years by the US before being given independence after being part of the Spanish Empire.
To be an Empire you have to have taken control of large numbers of countries and territories which are not part of your home nation
Says who? Says you?
I thought that was a generally accepted definition of an empire? A large territory consisting of vassal states.
So did France not have an empire because they integrated their colonial possessions into France proper?
The French Empire covered most of North Africa, Vietnam, Syria etc it was far larger than the extent of any US overseas possessions ever was and while Algeria may have been incorporated within France, Morocco, Vietnam, Syria etc were not
Oh, so is it only an Empire if the possessions are "overseas"? That rules out the Russian Empire I guess.
Alaska says hello.
Did Russia cease to be an Empire when it sold Alaska?
No, it was a large territory consisting of several distinct peoples ruled by a single authority. As I said earlier, one of the generally accepted definitions of an empire.
"distinct peoples" is arbitrary. Is modern Spain an Empire?
I literally used the definition from the first sentence in the wikipedia article.
You're going round in circles.
If Russia was an Empire, If Brazil was an Empire, if Austria-Hungary was an Empire, then the USA was an Empire. The fact that the continuous USA is still one nation state is neither here nor there.
From the same article:
The United States is not traditionally recognized as an empire, in part because the U.S. adopted a different political system from those that previous empires had used. Despite these systematic differences, the political objectives and strategies of the United States government have been quite similar to those of previous empires.[67]
And?
You are saying the US was an empire, but that view is apparently not widespread.
Not among Americans. But then, they think Washington wasn’t a traitor and pineapple goes well with pizza.
Well, where did the pineapple come from in the first place?
I though the definition of an "Empire" was simply a nation whose Head of State was called "Emperor". After all, Jean Bokassa called himself Emperor of the Central African Empire from 1966 to 1979 though he subjugated no other states to my knowledge.
Was the Angevin Empire an "Empire" as we understand it? Yes, the lands were ruled by a single family but they were, as I recall, separately governed so it wasn't an empire like Germany, Austria or Russia. Indeed, England, Ireland and the areas of France ruled by the Angevins weren't I think politically joined at all but I stand to be corrected on that.
Hang on, was Spain ever ruled by an Emperor? Charles V was Holy Roman Emperor and King of Spain but that didn't mean the two states were united. We talk about a Spanish Empire but there was never a Spanish Emperor.
I though the definition of an "Empire" was simply a nation whose Head of State was called "Emperor". After all, Jean Bokassa called himself Emperor of the Central African Empire from 1966 to 1979 though he subjugated no other states to my knowledge.
Was the Angevin Empire an "Empire" as we understand it? Yes, the lands were ruled by a single family but they were, as I recall, separately governed so it wasn't an empire like Germany, Austria or Russia. Indeed, England, Ireland and the areas of France ruled by the Angevins weren't I think politically joined at all but I stand to be corrected on that.
Hang on, was Spain ever ruled by an Emperor? Charles V was Holy Roman Emperor and King of Spain but that didn't mean the two states were united. We talk about a Spanish Empire but there was never a Spanish Emperor.
HM Queen Vicky was "Queen and Empress" hence the R. I. on coins till recently. But not quite the same thing, or was the UK ever p[art of the Empire?
The republicans won;t win in 2024 or ever again, no matter who they put up.
The party is now totally divided between the Trump wing and the McCain/Romney rump. The former now loathe the latter more than the democrats for not fighting with Trump against what they see as widespread vote rigging.
Meanwhile Joe Biden is intent on giving up to 20 million illegal immigrants citizenship as one of his first acts. Plus the immigration gates will be re-opened to many millions more.
Wonder who they are going to vote for.
Its over for the republicans. And right wing politics in America.
No, eventually they'll get tired of losing. It took the Tory party 8 years until they made Dave leader.
Nah the numbers are against you. A right wing coalition of any kind will be impossible after team Biden change America's demographics like they intend to.
America today. South Africa one day. Not that that's necessarily a bad thing. But it would change the balance of the world enormously.
Why do you assume Hispanic Americans will never vote conservative ? That’s a very odd opinion.
@contrarian, don't despair. This is an interesting piece from the NYT
The point: education more than ethnicity is likely to be the key determinant factor moving forwards. The news there is quite positive from a GOP standpoint: while student enrolment went up well over 40% from 1999 to 2011, it has actually been declining for the past few years and the projections are for a flatlining i.e. down as a % of the population. So, while the Democrats may have been boosted by the 1999-2011 growth, that engine of growth is slowing down.
Also, the values thing is the key. Black and Hispanic voters generally have more conservative values. The shift has already started to the GOP on the Republican side and, for young Black males, it is starting (remember many older Black voters have a very strong affinity to the Democrat party).
FWIW, I don't think that Biden will get 20m illegal immigrants made citizens - part because of the courts, part the Senate (Manchin wouldn't vote for it for a start and the AZ senators may have some qualms) and also because the political benefits may not be so great if illegal immigrants are concentrated in Democrat cities / states and such a measures means the loss of white votes.
One other point. It can be easy to overlook the shifts. Ohio, Iowa and, crucially, Florida are looking like safer Republican bets. Yes, Georgia and Arizona have gone the other way but the Democrats in 2024 are far more stretched in terms of defence - those two states, PA, WI and MI will all require considerable defending. For the Republicans, probably NC is the only one that looks vulnerable (I doubt the Democrats will go big on Texas next time).
Cheering the decline in educational standards for political partisanship is probably a good leading indicator for the decline of a once great empire!
The USA has never really been an Empire, a superpower yes but not an Empire
It’s a good job the people of Hawaii, the Philippines, Puerto Rico, Dakota, Oklahoma and New Mexico weren’t overwhelmed by the imperial outreach of the USA.
Imagine how miserable their lives would have been if they had been conquered, their lands and money seized and their resources ruthlessly exploited while anyone who resisted was shot.
The only one of those which are not part of the present USA is the Phillippines and it was only held for 50 years by the US before being given independence after being part of the Spanish Empire.
To be an Empire you have to have taken control of large numbers of countries and territories which are not part of your home nation
Says who? Says you?
I thought that was a generally accepted definition of an empire? A large territory consisting of vassal states.
So did France not have an empire because they integrated their colonial possessions into France proper?
The French Empire covered most of North Africa, Vietnam, Syria etc it was far larger than the extent of any US overseas possessions ever was and while Algeria may have been incorporated within France, Morocco, Vietnam, Syria etc were not
Oh, so is it only an Empire if the possessions are "overseas"? That rules out the Russian Empire I guess.
Alaska says hello.
Did Russia cease to be an Empire when it sold Alaska?
No, it was a large territory consisting of several distinct peoples ruled by a single authority. As I said earlier, one of the generally accepted definitions of an empire.
"distinct peoples" is arbitrary. Is modern Spain an Empire?
Is England under HYUFD an Empire? He did say how much he apprtoved of General Franco the other day.
No, England is a country, the UK a sovereign country and union
I will remind you of that next time you argue that English Tory MPs should always be allowed to override the democratically expressed will of the Scottish people.
Scots reaffirmed their commitment to the Union in the once in a generation 2014 referendum
Away and play with your spinal pad and pith helmet.
And you know you are losing the argument when you come up with the same old lie about generations.
As far as I'm concerned we are in a new generation now anyway.
1993 to 2020 was a generation of EU membership that faded into history. The last Sindyref under Salmond fell in that EU membership generation.
Now we are entering a new era of post Brexit politics. Nicola Sturgeon can be Picard in the Next Generation referendum.
You are a non Tory, Nat appeaser anyway.
However even Canada did not give Quebec its second independence referendum until 15 years after the first, which means 2029 at the earliest
I'm a democrat, it depends for me what the Scottish voters vote for.
Canada did not "give" Quebec a referendum. 🤦🏻♂️ The Québécois got a referendum when they unilaterally voted to hold one, not when they were "given" one. Had the Québécois voted to hold theirs earlier that would have been their choice, if the Scots choose to hold one that is their choice.
No you aren't always a democrat, not one poll shows most voters want No Deal Brexit but you are still determined they should have it anyway without further consultation
I though the definition of an "Empire" was simply a nation whose Head of State was called "Emperor". After all, Jean Bokassa called himself Emperor of the Central African Empire from 1966 to 1979 though he subjugated no other states to my knowledge.
Was the Angevin Empire an "Empire" as we understand it? Yes, the lands were ruled by a single family but they were, as I recall, separately governed so it wasn't an empire like Germany, Austria or Russia. Indeed, England, Ireland and the areas of France ruled by the Angevins weren't I think politically joined at all but I stand to be corrected on that.
Hang on, was Spain ever ruled by an Emperor? Charles V was Holy Roman Emperor and King of Spain but that didn't mean the two states were united. We talk about a Spanish Empire but there was never a Spanish Emperor.
HM Queen Vicky was "Queen and Empress" hence the R. I. on coins till recently. But not quite the same thing, or was the UK ever p[art of the Empire?
She was Queen of the United Kingdom and its Dominions beyond the Seas and Empress of India.
The republicans won;t win in 2024 or ever again, no matter who they put up.
The party is now totally divided between the Trump wing and the McCain/Romney rump. The former now loathe the latter more than the democrats for not fighting with Trump against what they see as widespread vote rigging.
Meanwhile Joe Biden is intent on giving up to 20 million illegal immigrants citizenship as one of his first acts. Plus the immigration gates will be re-opened to many millions more.
Wonder who they are going to vote for.
Its over for the republicans. And right wing politics in America.
No, eventually they'll get tired of losing. It took the Tory party 8 years until they made Dave leader.
Nah the numbers are against you. A right wing coalition of any kind will be impossible after team Biden change America's demographics like they intend to.
America today. South Africa one day. Not that that's necessarily a bad thing. But it would change the balance of the world enormously.
Why do you assume Hispanic Americans will never vote conservative ? That’s a very odd opinion.
@contrarian, don't despair. This is an interesting piece from the NYT
The point: education more than ethnicity is likely to be the key determinant factor moving forwards. The news there is quite positive from a GOP standpoint: while student enrolment went up well over 40% from 1999 to 2011, it has actually been declining for the past few years and the projections are for a flatlining i.e. down as a % of the population. So, while the Democrats may have been boosted by the 1999-2011 growth, that engine of growth is slowing down.
Also, the values thing is the key. Black and Hispanic voters generally have more conservative values. The shift has already started to the GOP on the Republican side and, for young Black males, it is starting (remember many older Black voters have a very strong affinity to the Democrat party).
FWIW, I don't think that Biden will get 20m illegal immigrants made citizens - part because of the courts, part the Senate (Manchin wouldn't vote for it for a start and the AZ senators may have some qualms) and also because the political benefits may not be so great if illegal immigrants are concentrated in Democrat cities / states and such a measures means the loss of white votes.
One other point. It can be easy to overlook the shifts. Ohio, Iowa and, crucially, Florida are looking like safer Republican bets. Yes, Georgia and Arizona have gone the other way but the Democrats in 2024 are far more stretched in terms of defence - those two states, PA, WI and MI will all require considerable defending. For the Republicans, probably NC is the only one that looks vulnerable (I doubt the Democrats will go big on Texas next time).
Cheering the decline in educational standards for political partisanship is probably a good leading indicator for the decline of a once great empire!
The USA has never really been an Empire, a superpower yes but not an Empire
It’s a good job the people of Hawaii, the Philippines, Puerto Rico, Dakota, Oklahoma and New Mexico weren’t overwhelmed by the imperial outreach of the USA.
Imagine how miserable their lives would have been if they had been conquered, their lands and money seized and their resources ruthlessly exploited while anyone who resisted was shot.
The only one of those which are not part of the present USA is the Phillippines and it was only held for 50 years by the US before being given independence after being part of the Spanish Empire.
To be an Empire you have to have taken control of large numbers of countries and territories which are not part of your home nation
Says who? Says you?
I thought that was a generally accepted definition of an empire? A large territory consisting of vassal states.
So did France not have an empire because they integrated their colonial possessions into France proper?
The French Empire covered most of North Africa, Vietnam, Syria etc it was far larger than the extent of any US overseas possessions ever was and while Algeria may have been incorporated within France, Morocco, Vietnam, Syria etc were not
Oh, so is it only an Empire if the possessions are "overseas"? That rules out the Russian Empire I guess.
Alaska says hello.
Did Russia cease to be an Empire when it sold Alaska?
No, it was a large territory consisting of several distinct peoples ruled by a single authority. As I said earlier, one of the generally accepted definitions of an empire.
"distinct peoples" is arbitrary. Is modern Spain an Empire?
Is England under HYUFD an Empire? He did say how much he apprtoved of General Franco the other day.
No, England is a country, the UK a sovereign country and union
I will remind you of that next time you argue that English Tory MPs should always be allowed to override the democratically expressed will of the Scottish people.
Scots reaffirmed their commitment to the Union in the once in a generation 2014 referendum
Away and play with your spinal pad and pith helmet.
And you know you are losing the argument when you come up with the same old lie about generations.
As far as I'm concerned we are in a new generation now anyway.
1993 to 2020 was a generation of EU membership that faded into history. The last Sindyref under Salmond fell in that EU membership generation.
Now we are entering a new era of post Brexit politics. Nicola Sturgeon can be Picard in the Next Generation referendum.
You are a non Tory, Nat appeaser anyway.
However even Canada did not give Quebec its second independence referendum until 15 years after the first, which means 2029 at the earliest
I'm a democrat, it depends for me what the Scottish voters vote for.
Canada did not "give" Quebec a referendum. 🤦🏻♂️ The Québécois got a referendum when they unilaterally voted to hold one, not when they were "given" one. Had the Québécois voted to hold theirs earlier that would have been their choice, if the Scots choose to hold one that is their choice.
No you aren't always a democrat, not one poll shows most voters want No Deal Brexit but you are still determined they should have it anyway without further consultation
But that is your party policy. And you keep tyelling us party right or wrong.
I though the definition of an "Empire" was simply a nation whose Head of State was called "Emperor". After all, Jean Bokassa called himself Emperor of the Central African Empire from 1966 to 1979 though he subjugated no other states to my knowledge.
Was the Angevin Empire an "Empire" as we understand it? Yes, the lands were ruled by a single family but they were, as I recall, separately governed so it wasn't an empire like Germany, Austria or Russia. Indeed, England, Ireland and the areas of France ruled by the Angevins weren't I think politically joined at all but I stand to be corrected on that.
Hang on, was Spain ever ruled by an Emperor? Charles V was Holy Roman Emperor and King of Spain but that didn't mean the two states were united. We talk about a Spanish Empire but there was never a Spanish Emperor.
HM Queen Vicky was "Queen and Empress" hence the R. I. on coins till recently. But not quite the same thing, or was the UK ever p[art of the Empire?
Despite the British Empire spanning the whole globe "sun never sets", it was specifically India that she was the Empress of wasn't it?
The republicans won;t win in 2024 or ever again, no matter who they put up.
The party is now totally divided between the Trump wing and the McCain/Romney rump. The former now loathe the latter more than the democrats for not fighting with Trump against what they see as widespread vote rigging.
Meanwhile Joe Biden is intent on giving up to 20 million illegal immigrants citizenship as one of his first acts. Plus the immigration gates will be re-opened to many millions more.
Wonder who they are going to vote for.
Its over for the republicans. And right wing politics in America.
No, eventually they'll get tired of losing. It took the Tory party 8 years until they made Dave leader.
Nah the numbers are against you. A right wing coalition of any kind will be impossible after team Biden change America's demographics like they intend to.
America today. South Africa one day. Not that that's necessarily a bad thing. But it would change the balance of the world enormously.
Why do you assume Hispanic Americans will never vote conservative ? That’s a very odd opinion.
@contrarian, don't despair. This is an interesting piece from the NYT
The point: education more than ethnicity is likely to be the key determinant factor moving forwards. The news there is quite positive from a GOP standpoint: while student enrolment went up well over 40% from 1999 to 2011, it has actually been declining for the past few years and the projections are for a flatlining i.e. down as a % of the population. So, while the Democrats may have been boosted by the 1999-2011 growth, that engine of growth is slowing down.
Also, the values thing is the key. Black and Hispanic voters generally have more conservative values. The shift has already started to the GOP on the Republican side and, for young Black males, it is starting (remember many older Black voters have a very strong affinity to the Democrat party).
FWIW, I don't think that Biden will get 20m illegal immigrants made citizens - part because of the courts, part the Senate (Manchin wouldn't vote for it for a start and the AZ senators may have some qualms) and also because the political benefits may not be so great if illegal immigrants are concentrated in Democrat cities / states and such a measures means the loss of white votes.
One other point. It can be easy to overlook the shifts. Ohio, Iowa and, crucially, Florida are looking like safer Republican bets. Yes, Georgia and Arizona have gone the other way but the Democrats in 2024 are far more stretched in terms of defence - those two states, PA, WI and MI will all require considerable defending. For the Republicans, probably NC is the only one that looks vulnerable (I doubt the Democrats will go big on Texas next time).
Cheering the decline in educational standards for political partisanship is probably a good leading indicator for the decline of a once great empire!
The USA has never really been an Empire, a superpower yes but not an Empire
It’s a good job the people of Hawaii, the Philippines, Puerto Rico, Dakota, Oklahoma and New Mexico weren’t overwhelmed by the imperial outreach of the USA.
Imagine how miserable their lives would have been if they had been conquered, their lands and money seized and their resources ruthlessly exploited while anyone who resisted was shot.
The only one of those which are not part of the present USA is the Phillippines and it was only held for 50 years by the US before being given independence after being part of the Spanish Empire.
To be an Empire you have to have taken control of large numbers of countries and territories which are not part of your home nation
Says who? Says you?
I thought that was a generally accepted definition of an empire? A large territory consisting of vassal states.
So did France not have an empire because they integrated their colonial possessions into France proper?
The French Empire covered most of North Africa, Vietnam, Syria etc it was far larger than the extent of any US overseas possessions ever was and while Algeria may have been incorporated within France, Morocco, Vietnam, Syria etc were not
Oh, so is it only an Empire if the possessions are "overseas"? That rules out the Russian Empire I guess.
Alaska says hello.
Did Russia cease to be an Empire when it sold Alaska?
No, it was a large territory consisting of several distinct peoples ruled by a single authority. As I said earlier, one of the generally accepted definitions of an empire.
"distinct peoples" is arbitrary. Is modern Spain an Empire?
I literally used the definition from the first sentence in the wikipedia article.
You're going round in circles.
If Russia was an Empire, If Brazil was an Empire, if Austria-Hungary was an Empire, then the USA was an Empire. The fact that the continuous USA is still one nation state is neither here nor there.
No that doesn't follow as there's another difference. Why was Brazil an Empire and why did it cease to be one?
Brazil was an Empire because it had an Emperor, it ceases to be an Empire when it became a republic.
The USA has always been a republic.
Then @HYUFD should have stated that an empire is only an "empire" if it has an "emperor" but that wasn't his argument.
Not required, though often the case, required is control of multiple territories and peoples outside the home nation
'An empire is a sovereign state consisting of several territories and peoples subject to a single ruling authority, often an emperor.'
I though the definition of an "Empire" was simply a nation whose Head of State was called "Emperor". After all, Jean Bokassa called himself Emperor of the Central African Empire from 1966 to 1979 though he subjugated no other states to my knowledge.
Was the Angevin Empire an "Empire" as we understand it? Yes, the lands were ruled by a single family but they were, as I recall, separately governed so it wasn't an empire like Germany, Austria or Russia. Indeed, England, Ireland and the areas of France ruled by the Angevins weren't I think politically joined at all but I stand to be corrected on that.
Hang on, was Spain ever ruled by an Emperor? Charles V was Holy Roman Emperor and King of Spain but that didn't mean the two states were united. We talk about a Spanish Empire but there was never a Spanish Emperor.
Most Empires tend to have an Emperor I agree, though it is not a prerequisite
The republicans won;t win in 2024 or ever again, no matter who they put up.
The party is now totally divided between the Trump wing and the McCain/Romney rump. The former now loathe the latter more than the democrats for not fighting with Trump against what they see as widespread vote rigging.
Meanwhile Joe Biden is intent on giving up to 20 million illegal immigrants citizenship as one of his first acts. Plus the immigration gates will be re-opened to many millions more.
Wonder who they are going to vote for.
Its over for the republicans. And right wing politics in America.
No, eventually they'll get tired of losing. It took the Tory party 8 years until they made Dave leader.
Nah the numbers are against you. A right wing coalition of any kind will be impossible after team Biden change America's demographics like they intend to.
America today. South Africa one day. Not that that's necessarily a bad thing. But it would change the balance of the world enormously.
Why do you assume Hispanic Americans will never vote conservative ? That’s a very odd opinion.
@contrarian, don't despair. This is an interesting piece from the NYT
The point: education more than ethnicity is likely to be the key determinant factor moving forwards. The news there is quite positive from a GOP standpoint: while student enrolment went up well over 40% from 1999 to 2011, it has actually been declining for the past few years and the projections are for a flatlining i.e. down as a % of the population. So, while the Democrats may have been boosted by the 1999-2011 growth, that engine of growth is slowing down.
Also, the values thing is the key. Black and Hispanic voters generally have more conservative values. The shift has already started to the GOP on the Republican side and, for young Black males, it is starting (remember many older Black voters have a very strong affinity to the Democrat party).
FWIW, I don't think that Biden will get 20m illegal immigrants made citizens - part because of the courts, part the Senate (Manchin wouldn't vote for it for a start and the AZ senators may have some qualms) and also because the political benefits may not be so great if illegal immigrants are concentrated in Democrat cities / states and such a measures means the loss of white votes.
One other point. It can be easy to overlook the shifts. Ohio, Iowa and, crucially, Florida are looking like safer Republican bets. Yes, Georgia and Arizona have gone the other way but the Democrats in 2024 are far more stretched in terms of defence - those two states, PA, WI and MI will all require considerable defending. For the Republicans, probably NC is the only one that looks vulnerable (I doubt the Democrats will go big on Texas next time).
Cheering the decline in educational standards for political partisanship is probably a good leading indicator for the decline of a once great empire!
The USA has never really been an Empire, a superpower yes but not an Empire
It’s a good job the people of Hawaii, the Philippines, Puerto Rico, Dakota, Oklahoma and New Mexico weren’t overwhelmed by the imperial outreach of the USA.
Imagine how miserable their lives would have been if they had been conquered, their lands and money seized and their resources ruthlessly exploited while anyone who resisted was shot.
The only one of those which are not part of the present USA is the Phillippines and it was only held for 50 years by the US before being given independence after being part of the Spanish Empire.
To be an Empire you have to have taken control of large numbers of countries and territories which are not part of your home nation
Says who? Says you?
I thought that was a generally accepted definition of an empire? A large territory consisting of vassal states.
So did France not have an empire because they integrated their colonial possessions into France proper?
The French Empire covered most of North Africa, Vietnam, Syria etc it was far larger than the extent of any US overseas possessions ever was and while Algeria may have been incorporated within France, Morocco, Vietnam, Syria etc were not
Oh, so is it only an Empire if the possessions are "overseas"? That rules out the Russian Empire I guess.
Alaska says hello.
Did Russia cease to be an Empire when it sold Alaska?
No, it was a large territory consisting of several distinct peoples ruled by a single authority. As I said earlier, one of the generally accepted definitions of an empire.
"distinct peoples" is arbitrary. Is modern Spain an Empire?
Is England under HYUFD an Empire? He did say how much he apprtoved of General Franco the other day.
No, England is a country, the UK a sovereign country and union
I will remind you of that next time you argue that English Tory MPs should always be allowed to override the democratically expressed will of the Scottish people.
Scots reaffirmed their commitment to the Union in the once in a generation 2014 referendum
Scots have been affirming their commitment to not being governed by Tories since 1955, nevertheless back you come with your unpalatable, little world view..
The republicans won;t win in 2024 or ever again, no matter who they put up.
The party is now totally divided between the Trump wing and the McCain/Romney rump. The former now loathe the latter more than the democrats for not fighting with Trump against what they see as widespread vote rigging.
Meanwhile Joe Biden is intent on giving up to 20 million illegal immigrants citizenship as one of his first acts. Plus the immigration gates will be re-opened to many millions more.
Wonder who they are going to vote for.
Its over for the republicans. And right wing politics in America.
No, eventually they'll get tired of losing. It took the Tory party 8 years until they made Dave leader.
Nah the numbers are against you. A right wing coalition of any kind will be impossible after team Biden change America's demographics like they intend to.
America today. South Africa one day. Not that that's necessarily a bad thing. But it would change the balance of the world enormously.
Why do you assume Hispanic Americans will never vote conservative ? That’s a very odd opinion.
@contrarian, don't despair. This is an interesting piece from the NYT
The point: education more than ethnicity is likely to be the key determinant factor moving forwards. The news there is quite positive from a GOP standpoint: while student enrolment went up well over 40% from 1999 to 2011, it has actually been declining for the past few years and the projections are for a flatlining i.e. down as a % of the population. So, while the Democrats may have been boosted by the 1999-2011 growth, that engine of growth is slowing down.
Also, the values thing is the key. Black and Hispanic voters generally have more conservative values. The shift has already started to the GOP on the Republican side and, for young Black males, it is starting (remember many older Black voters have a very strong affinity to the Democrat party).
FWIW, I don't think that Biden will get 20m illegal immigrants made citizens - part because of the courts, part the Senate (Manchin wouldn't vote for it for a start and the AZ senators may have some qualms) and also because the political benefits may not be so great if illegal immigrants are concentrated in Democrat cities / states and such a measures means the loss of white votes.
One other point. It can be easy to overlook the shifts. Ohio, Iowa and, crucially, Florida are looking like safer Republican bets. Yes, Georgia and Arizona have gone the other way but the Democrats in 2024 are far more stretched in terms of defence - those two states, PA, WI and MI will all require considerable defending. For the Republicans, probably NC is the only one that looks vulnerable (I doubt the Democrats will go big on Texas next time).
Cheering the decline in educational standards for political partisanship is probably a good leading indicator for the decline of a once great empire!
The USA has never really been an Empire, a superpower yes but not an Empire
It’s a good job the people of Hawaii, the Philippines, Puerto Rico, Dakota, Oklahoma and New Mexico weren’t overwhelmed by the imperial outreach of the USA.
Imagine how miserable their lives would have been if they had been conquered, their lands and money seized and their resources ruthlessly exploited while anyone who resisted was shot.
The only one of those which are not part of the present USA is the Phillippines and it was only held for 50 years by the US before being given independence after being part of the Spanish Empire.
To be an Empire you have to have taken control of large numbers of countries and territories which are not part of your home nation
Says who? Says you?
I thought that was a generally accepted definition of an empire? A large territory consisting of vassal states.
So did France not have an empire because they integrated their colonial possessions into France proper?
The French Empire covered most of North Africa, Vietnam, Syria etc it was far larger than the extent of any US overseas possessions ever was and while Algeria may have been incorporated within France, Morocco, Vietnam, Syria etc were not
Oh, so is it only an Empire if the possessions are "overseas"? That rules out the Russian Empire I guess.
Alaska says hello.
Did Russia cease to be an Empire when it sold Alaska?
No, it was a large territory consisting of several distinct peoples ruled by a single authority. As I said earlier, one of the generally accepted definitions of an empire.
"distinct peoples" is arbitrary. Is modern Spain an Empire?
I literally used the definition from the first sentence in the wikipedia article.
You're going round in circles.
If Russia was an Empire, If Brazil was an Empire, if Austria-Hungary was an Empire, then the USA was an Empire. The fact that the continuous USA is still one nation state is neither here nor there.
No that doesn't follow as there's another difference. Why was Brazil an Empire and why did it cease to be one?
Brazil was an Empire because it had an Emperor, it ceases to be an Empire when it became a republic.
The USA has always been a republic.
Then @HYUFD should have stated that an empire is only an "empire" if it has an "emperor" but that wasn't his argument.
Not required, though often the case, required is control of multiple territories and peoples outside the home nation
'An empire is a sovereign state consisting of several territories and peoples subject to a single ruling authority, often an emperor.'
The republicans won;t win in 2024 or ever again, no matter who they put up.
The party is now totally divided between the Trump wing and the McCain/Romney rump. The former now loathe the latter more than the democrats for not fighting with Trump against what they see as widespread vote rigging.
Meanwhile Joe Biden is intent on giving up to 20 million illegal immigrants citizenship as one of his first acts. Plus the immigration gates will be re-opened to many millions more.
Wonder who they are going to vote for.
Its over for the republicans. And right wing politics in America.
No, eventually they'll get tired of losing. It took the Tory party 8 years until they made Dave leader.
Nah the numbers are against you. A right wing coalition of any kind will be impossible after team Biden change America's demographics like they intend to.
America today. South Africa one day. Not that that's necessarily a bad thing. But it would change the balance of the world enormously.
Why do you assume Hispanic Americans will never vote conservative ? That’s a very odd opinion.
@contrarian, don't despair. This is an interesting piece from the NYT
The point: education more than ethnicity is likely to be the key determinant factor moving forwards. The news there is quite positive from a GOP standpoint: while student enrolment went up well over 40% from 1999 to 2011, it has actually been declining for the past few years and the projections are for a flatlining i.e. down as a % of the population. So, while the Democrats may have been boosted by the 1999-2011 growth, that engine of growth is slowing down.
Also, the values thing is the key. Black and Hispanic voters generally have more conservative values. The shift has already started to the GOP on the Republican side and, for young Black males, it is starting (remember many older Black voters have a very strong affinity to the Democrat party).
FWIW, I don't think that Biden will get 20m illegal immigrants made citizens - part because of the courts, part the Senate (Manchin wouldn't vote for it for a start and the AZ senators may have some qualms) and also because the political benefits may not be so great if illegal immigrants are concentrated in Democrat cities / states and such a measures means the loss of white votes.
One other point. It can be easy to overlook the shifts. Ohio, Iowa and, crucially, Florida are looking like safer Republican bets. Yes, Georgia and Arizona have gone the other way but the Democrats in 2024 are far more stretched in terms of defence - those two states, PA, WI and MI will all require considerable defending. For the Republicans, probably NC is the only one that looks vulnerable (I doubt the Democrats will go big on Texas next time).
Cheering the decline in educational standards for political partisanship is probably a good leading indicator for the decline of a once great empire!
The USA has never really been an Empire, a superpower yes but not an Empire
It’s a good job the people of Hawaii, the Philippines, Puerto Rico, Dakota, Oklahoma and New Mexico weren’t overwhelmed by the imperial outreach of the USA.
Imagine how miserable their lives would have been if they had been conquered, their lands and money seized and their resources ruthlessly exploited while anyone who resisted was shot.
The only one of those which are not part of the present USA is the Phillippines and it was only held for 50 years by the US before being given independence after being part of the Spanish Empire.
To be an Empire you have to have taken control of large numbers of countries and territories which are not part of your home nation
Says who? Says you?
I thought that was a generally accepted definition of an empire? A large territory consisting of vassal states.
So did France not have an empire because they integrated their colonial possessions into France proper?
The French Empire covered most of North Africa, Vietnam, Syria etc it was far larger than the extent of any US overseas possessions ever was and while Algeria may have been incorporated within France, Morocco, Vietnam, Syria etc were not
Oh, so is it only an Empire if the possessions are "overseas"? That rules out the Russian Empire I guess.
Alaska says hello.
Did Russia cease to be an Empire when it sold Alaska?
No, it was a large territory consisting of several distinct peoples ruled by a single authority. As I said earlier, one of the generally accepted definitions of an empire.
"distinct peoples" is arbitrary. Is modern Spain an Empire?
Is England under HYUFD an Empire? He did say how much he apprtoved of General Franco the other day.
No, England is a country, the UK a sovereign country and union
I will remind you of that next time you argue that English Tory MPs should always be allowed to override the democratically expressed will of the Scottish people.
Scots reaffirmed their commitment to the Union in the once in a generation 2014 referendum
Away and play with your spinal pad and pith helmet.
And you know you are losing the argument when you come up with the same old lie about generations.
As far as I'm concerned we are in a new generation now anyway.
1993 to 2020 was a generation of EU membership that faded into history. The last Sindyref under Salmond fell in that EU membership generation.
Now we are entering a new era of post Brexit politics. Nicola Sturgeon can be Picard in the Next Generation referendum.
You are a non Tory, Nat appeaser anyway.
However even Canada did not give Quebec its second independence referendum until 15 years after the first, which means 2029 at the earliest
I'm a democrat, it depends for me what the Scottish voters vote for.
Canada did not "give" Quebec a referendum. 🤦🏻♂️ The Québécois got a referendum when they unilaterally voted to hold one, not when they were "given" one. Had the Québécois voted to hold theirs earlier that would have been their choice, if the Scots choose to hold one that is their choice.
No you aren't always a democrat, not one poll shows most voters want No Deal Brexit but you are still determined they should have it anyway without further consultation
But that is your party policy. And you keep tyelling us party right or wrong.
Party policy in 2019 was actually still to aim for a Deal, I hope we still get a Deal, if the party leadership decides they can no longer agree one that is their decision but I will still argue for a Deal within the party. However I am not going to pretend the decision of the Tory government to pursue a No Deal Brexit will be the democratic will of the majority of the country but we are a representative not a direct democracy and voters can give their verdict on it at the next general election
The republicans won;t win in 2024 or ever again, no matter who they put up.
The party is now totally divided between the Trump wing and the McCain/Romney rump. The former now loathe the latter more than the democrats for not fighting with Trump against what they see as widespread vote rigging.
Meanwhile Joe Biden is intent on giving up to 20 million illegal immigrants citizenship as one of his first acts. Plus the immigration gates will be re-opened to many millions more.
Wonder who they are going to vote for.
Its over for the republicans. And right wing politics in America.
No, eventually they'll get tired of losing. It took the Tory party 8 years until they made Dave leader.
Nah the numbers are against you. A right wing coalition of any kind will be impossible after team Biden change America's demographics like they intend to.
America today. South Africa one day. Not that that's necessarily a bad thing. But it would change the balance of the world enormously.
Why do you assume Hispanic Americans will never vote conservative ? That’s a very odd opinion.
@contrarian, don't despair. This is an interesting piece from the NYT
The point: education more than ethnicity is likely to be the key determinant factor moving forwards. The news there is quite positive from a GOP standpoint: while student enrolment went up well over 40% from 1999 to 2011, it has actually been declining for the past few years and the projections are for a flatlining i.e. down as a % of the population. So, while the Democrats may have been boosted by the 1999-2011 growth, that engine of growth is slowing down.
Also, the values thing is the key. Black and Hispanic voters generally have more conservative values. The shift has already started to the GOP on the Republican side and, for young Black males, it is starting (remember many older Black voters have a very strong affinity to the Democrat party).
FWIW, I don't think that Biden will get 20m illegal immigrants made citizens - part because of the courts, part the Senate (Manchin wouldn't vote for it for a start and the AZ senators may have some qualms) and also because the political benefits may not be so great if illegal immigrants are concentrated in Democrat cities / states and such a measures means the loss of white votes.
One other point. It can be easy to overlook the shifts. Ohio, Iowa and, crucially, Florida are looking like safer Republican bets. Yes, Georgia and Arizona have gone the other way but the Democrats in 2024 are far more stretched in terms of defence - those two states, PA, WI and MI will all require considerable defending. For the Republicans, probably NC is the only one that looks vulnerable (I doubt the Democrats will go big on Texas next time).
Cheering the decline in educational standards for political partisanship is probably a good leading indicator for the decline of a once great empire!
The USA has never really been an Empire, a superpower yes but not an Empire
It’s a good job the people of Hawaii, the Philippines, Puerto Rico, Dakota, Oklahoma and New Mexico weren’t overwhelmed by the imperial outreach of the USA.
Imagine how miserable their lives would have been if they had been conquered, their lands and money seized and their resources ruthlessly exploited while anyone who resisted was shot.
The only one of those which are not part of the present USA is the Phillippines and it was only held for 50 years by the US before being given independence after being part of the Spanish Empire.
To be an Empire you have to have taken control of large numbers of countries and territories which are not part of your home nation
Says who? Says you?
I thought that was a generally accepted definition of an empire? A large territory consisting of vassal states.
So did France not have an empire because they integrated their colonial possessions into France proper?
The French Empire covered most of North Africa, Vietnam, Syria etc it was far larger than the extent of any US overseas possessions ever was and while Algeria may have been incorporated within France, Morocco, Vietnam, Syria etc were not
Oh, so is it only an Empire if the possessions are "overseas"? That rules out the Russian Empire I guess.
Alaska says hello.
Did Russia cease to be an Empire when it sold Alaska?
No, it was a large territory consisting of several distinct peoples ruled by a single authority. As I said earlier, one of the generally accepted definitions of an empire.
"distinct peoples" is arbitrary. Is modern Spain an Empire?
Is England under HYUFD an Empire? He did say how much he apprtoved of General Franco the other day.
No, England is a country, the UK a sovereign country and union
I will remind you of that next time you argue that English Tory MPs should always be allowed to override the democratically expressed will of the Scottish people.
Scots reaffirmed their commitment to the Union in the once in a generation 2014 referendum
Away and play with your spinal pad and pith helmet.
And you know you are losing the argument when you come up with the same old lie about generations.
As far as I'm concerned we are in a new generation now anyway.
1993 to 2020 was a generation of EU membership that faded into history. The last Sindyref under Salmond fell in that EU membership generation.
Now we are entering a new era of post Brexit politics. Nicola Sturgeon can be Picard in the Next Generation referendum.
You are a non Tory, Nat appeaser anyway.
However even Canada did not give Quebec its second independence referendum until 15 years after the first, which means 2029 at the earliest
I'm a democrat, it depends for me what the Scottish voters vote for.
Canada did not "give" Quebec a referendum. 🤦🏻♂️ The Québécois got a referendum when they unilaterally voted to hold one, not when they were "given" one. Had the Québécois voted to hold theirs earlier that would have been their choice, if the Scots choose to hold one that is their choice.
No you aren't always a democrat, not one poll shows most voters want No Deal Brexit but you are still determined they should have it anyway without further consultation
No deal Brexit is not a thing to be had, it is simply the default state of absence of a deal.
I would prefer a deal if one can be agreed that means the UK controls it's laws, money etc as the manifesto of twelve months ago said but if one can't then so be it.
However even Canada did not give Quebec its second independence referendum until 15 years after the first, which means 2029 at the earliest
You should begin by comparing the powers of Quebec to those of Scotland or Wales.
If there is a lesson to learn from Quebec, then it is that Canada has remained intact as a functioning country because the provinces are very powerful and the central government very loose.
Not merely are the provinces very powerful, Quebec itself has more powers than any other province, e.g., including control of immigration.
It is interesting that ... 25 years later ... there has not been a third Quebec referendum, given the second one in 1995 was lost so very narrowly.
There is a lesson to be learnt there .... but not I think the lesson you are trying to teach us.
The republicans won;t win in 2024 or ever again, no matter who they put up.
The party is now totally divided between the Trump wing and the McCain/Romney rump. The former now loathe the latter more than the democrats for not fighting with Trump against what they see as widespread vote rigging.
Meanwhile Joe Biden is intent on giving up to 20 million illegal immigrants citizenship as one of his first acts. Plus the immigration gates will be re-opened to many millions more.
Wonder who they are going to vote for.
Its over for the republicans. And right wing politics in America.
No, eventually they'll get tired of losing. It took the Tory party 8 years until they made Dave leader.
Nah the numbers are against you. A right wing coalition of any kind will be impossible after team Biden change America's demographics like they intend to.
America today. South Africa one day. Not that that's necessarily a bad thing. But it would change the balance of the world enormously.
Why do you assume Hispanic Americans will never vote conservative ? That’s a very odd opinion.
@contrarian, don't despair. This is an interesting piece from the NYT
The point: education more than ethnicity is likely to be the key determinant factor moving forwards. The news there is quite positive from a GOP standpoint: while student enrolment went up well over 40% from 1999 to 2011, it has actually been declining for the past few years and the projections are for a flatlining i.e. down as a % of the population. So, while the Democrats may have been boosted by the 1999-2011 growth, that engine of growth is slowing down.
Also, the values thing is the key. Black and Hispanic voters generally have more conservative values. The shift has already started to the GOP on the Republican side and, for young Black males, it is starting (remember many older Black voters have a very strong affinity to the Democrat party).
FWIW, I don't think that Biden will get 20m illegal immigrants made citizens - part because of the courts, part the Senate (Manchin wouldn't vote for it for a start and the AZ senators may have some qualms) and also because the political benefits may not be so great if illegal immigrants are concentrated in Democrat cities / states and such a measures means the loss of white votes.
One other point. It can be easy to overlook the shifts. Ohio, Iowa and, crucially, Florida are looking like safer Republican bets. Yes, Georgia and Arizona have gone the other way but the Democrats in 2024 are far more stretched in terms of defence - those two states, PA, WI and MI will all require considerable defending. For the Republicans, probably NC is the only one that looks vulnerable (I doubt the Democrats will go big on Texas next time).
Cheering the decline in educational standards for political partisanship is probably a good leading indicator for the decline of a once great empire!
The USA has never really been an Empire, a superpower yes but not an Empire
It’s a good job the people of Hawaii, the Philippines, Puerto Rico, Dakota, Oklahoma and New Mexico weren’t overwhelmed by the imperial outreach of the USA.
Imagine how miserable their lives would have been if they had been conquered, their lands and money seized and their resources ruthlessly exploited while anyone who resisted was shot.
The only one of those which are not part of the present USA is the Phillippines and it was only held for 50 years by the US before being given independence after being part of the Spanish Empire.
To be an Empire you have to have taken control of large numbers of countries and territories which are not part of your home nation
Says who? Says you?
I thought that was a generally accepted definition of an empire? A large territory consisting of vassal states.
So did France not have an empire because they integrated their colonial possessions into France proper?
The French Empire covered most of North Africa, Vietnam, Syria etc it was far larger than the extent of any US overseas possessions ever was and while Algeria may have been incorporated within France, Morocco, Vietnam, Syria etc were not
Oh, so is it only an Empire if the possessions are "overseas"? That rules out the Russian Empire I guess.
Alaska says hello.
Did Russia cease to be an Empire when it sold Alaska?
No, it was a large territory consisting of several distinct peoples ruled by a single authority. As I said earlier, one of the generally accepted definitions of an empire.
"distinct peoples" is arbitrary. Is modern Spain an Empire?
Is England under HYUFD an Empire? He did say how much he apprtoved of General Franco the other day.
No, England is a country, the UK a sovereign country and union
I will remind you of that next time you argue that English Tory MPs should always be allowed to override the democratically expressed will of the Scottish people.
Scots reaffirmed their commitment to the Union in the once in a generation 2014 referendum
Away and play with your spinal pad and pith helmet.
And you know you are losing the argument when you come up with the same old lie about generations.
As far as I'm concerned we are in a new generation now anyway.
1993 to 2020 was a generation of EU membership that faded into history. The last Sindyref under Salmond fell in that EU membership generation.
Now we are entering a new era of post Brexit politics. Nicola Sturgeon can be Picard in the Next Generation referendum.
You are a non Tory, Nat appeaser anyway.
However even Canada did not give Quebec its second independence referendum until 15 years after the first, which means 2029 at the earliest
I'm a democrat, it depends for me what the Scottish voters vote for.
Canada did not "give" Quebec a referendum. 🤦🏻♂️ The Québécois got a referendum when they unilaterally voted to hold one, not when they were "given" one. Had the Québécois voted to hold theirs earlier that would have been their choice, if the Scots choose to hold one that is their choice.
No you aren't always a democrat, not one poll shows most voters want No Deal Brexit but you are still determined they should have it anyway without further consultation
But that is your party policy. And you keep tyelling us party right or wrong.
Party policy in 2019 was actually still to aim for a Deal, I hope we still get a Deal, if the party leadership decides they can no longer agree one that is their decision but I will still argue for a Deal within the party. However I am not going to pretend the decision of the Tory government to pursue a No Deal Brexit will be the democratic will of the majority of the country but we are a representative not a direct democracy and voters can give their verdict on it at the next general election
Exactly - we are not slavishly bound by the results of past referenda or promises. So about time you stopped going on about 2014 and generations and gave the rest of us a break.
The republicans won;t win in 2024 or ever again, no matter who they put up.
The party is now totally divided between the Trump wing and the McCain/Romney rump. The former now loathe the latter more than the democrats for not fighting with Trump against what they see as widespread vote rigging.
Meanwhile Joe Biden is intent on giving up to 20 million illegal immigrants citizenship as one of his first acts. Plus the immigration gates will be re-opened to many millions more.
Wonder who they are going to vote for.
Its over for the republicans. And right wing politics in America.
No, eventually they'll get tired of losing. It took the Tory party 8 years until they made Dave leader.
Nah the numbers are against you. A right wing coalition of any kind will be impossible after team Biden change America's demographics like they intend to.
America today. South Africa one day. Not that that's necessarily a bad thing. But it would change the balance of the world enormously.
Why do you assume Hispanic Americans will never vote conservative ? That’s a very odd opinion.
@contrarian, don't despair. This is an interesting piece from the NYT
The point: education more than ethnicity is likely to be the key determinant factor moving forwards. The news there is quite positive from a GOP standpoint: while student enrolment went up well over 40% from 1999 to 2011, it has actually been declining for the past few years and the projections are for a flatlining i.e. down as a % of the population. So, while the Democrats may have been boosted by the 1999-2011 growth, that engine of growth is slowing down.
Also, the values thing is the key. Black and Hispanic voters generally have more conservative values. The shift has already started to the GOP on the Republican side and, for young Black males, it is starting (remember many older Black voters have a very strong affinity to the Democrat party).
FWIW, I don't think that Biden will get 20m illegal immigrants made citizens - part because of the courts, part the Senate (Manchin wouldn't vote for it for a start and the AZ senators may have some qualms) and also because the political benefits may not be so great if illegal immigrants are concentrated in Democrat cities / states and such a measures means the loss of white votes.
One other point. It can be easy to overlook the shifts. Ohio, Iowa and, crucially, Florida are looking like safer Republican bets. Yes, Georgia and Arizona have gone the other way but the Democrats in 2024 are far more stretched in terms of defence - those two states, PA, WI and MI will all require considerable defending. For the Republicans, probably NC is the only one that looks vulnerable (I doubt the Democrats will go big on Texas next time).
Cheering the decline in educational standards for political partisanship is probably a good leading indicator for the decline of a once great empire!
The USA has never really been an Empire, a superpower yes but not an Empire
It’s a good job the people of Hawaii, the Philippines, Puerto Rico, Dakota, Oklahoma and New Mexico weren’t overwhelmed by the imperial outreach of the USA.
Imagine how miserable their lives would have been if they had been conquered, their lands and money seized and their resources ruthlessly exploited while anyone who resisted was shot.
The only one of those which are not part of the present USA is the Phillippines and it was only held for 50 years by the US before being given independence after being part of the Spanish Empire.
To be an Empire you have to have taken control of large numbers of countries and territories which are not part of your home nation
Says who? Says you?
I thought that was a generally accepted definition of an empire? A large territory consisting of vassal states.
So did France not have an empire because they integrated their colonial possessions into France proper?
The French Empire covered most of North Africa, Vietnam, Syria etc it was far larger than the extent of any US overseas possessions ever was and while Algeria may have been incorporated within France, Morocco, Vietnam, Syria etc were not
Oh, so is it only an Empire if the possessions are "overseas"? That rules out the Russian Empire I guess.
Alaska says hello.
Did Russia cease to be an Empire when it sold Alaska?
No, it was a large territory consisting of several distinct peoples ruled by a single authority. As I said earlier, one of the generally accepted definitions of an empire.
"distinct peoples" is arbitrary. Is modern Spain an Empire?
Is England under HYUFD an Empire? He did say how much he apprtoved of General Franco the other day.
No, England is a country, the UK a sovereign country and union
I will remind you of that next time you argue that English Tory MPs should always be allowed to override the democratically expressed will of the Scottish people.
Scots reaffirmed their commitment to the Union in the once in a generation 2014 referendum
Away and play with your spinal pad and pith helmet.
And you know you are losing the argument when you come up with the same old lie about generations.
As far as I'm concerned we are in a new generation now anyway.
1993 to 2020 was a generation of EU membership that faded into history. The last Sindyref under Salmond fell in that EU membership generation.
Now we are entering a new era of post Brexit politics. Nicola Sturgeon can be Picard in the Next Generation referendum.
You are a non Tory, Nat appeaser anyway.
However even Canada did not give Quebec its second independence referendum until 15 years after the first, which means 2029 at the earliest
I'm a democrat, it depends for me what the Scottish voters vote for.
Canada did not "give" Quebec a referendum. 🤦🏻♂️ The Québécois got a referendum when they unilaterally voted to hold one, not when they were "given" one. Had the Québécois voted to hold theirs earlier that would have been their choice, if the Scots choose to hold one that is their choice.
No you aren't always a democrat, not one poll shows most voters want No Deal Brexit but you are still determined they should have it anyway without further consultation
But that is your party policy. And you keep tyelling us party right or wrong.
Party policy in 2019 was actually still to aim for a Deal, I hope we still get a Deal, if the party leadership decides they can no longer agree one that is their decision but I will still argue for a Deal within the party. However I am not going to pretend the decision of the Tory government to pursue a No Deal Brexit will be the democratic will of the majority of the country but we are a representative not a direct democracy and voters can give their verdict on it at the next general election
Exactly - we are not slavishly bound by the results of past referenda or promises. So about time you stopped going on about 2014 and generations and gave the rest of us a break.
We are a representative democracy as I said, not a referendum based democracy, the Tories won a majority in 2019 at the UK general election on a platform to deliver Brexit at Westminster, our supreme legislative body.
There was no requirement for the Tories to grant indyref2, if Labour win the 2024 general election and decide to grant indyref2 that is up to them
However even Canada did not give Quebec its second independence referendum until 15 years after the first, which means 2029 at the earliest
You should begin by comparing the powers of Quebec to those of Scotland or Wales.
If there is a lesson to learn from Quebec, then it is that Canada has remained intact as a functioning country because the provinces are very powerful and the central government very loose.
Not merely are the provinces very powerful, Quebec itself has more powers than any other province, e.g., including control of immigration.
It is interesting that ... 25 years later ... there has not been a third Quebec referendum, given the second one in 1995 was lost so very narrowly.
There is a lesson to be learnt there .... but not I think the lesson you are trying to teach us.
I have never opposed devomax for Scotland, just independence for Scotland
The republicans won;t win in 2024 or ever again, no matter who they put up.
The party is now totally divided between the Trump wing and the McCain/Romney rump. The former now loathe the latter more than the democrats for not fighting with Trump against what they see as widespread vote rigging.
Meanwhile Joe Biden is intent on giving up to 20 million illegal immigrants citizenship as one of his first acts. Plus the immigration gates will be re-opened to many millions more.
Wonder who they are going to vote for.
Its over for the republicans. And right wing politics in America.
No, eventually they'll get tired of losing. It took the Tory party 8 years until they made Dave leader.
Nah the numbers are against you. A right wing coalition of any kind will be impossible after team Biden change America's demographics like they intend to.
America today. South Africa one day. Not that that's necessarily a bad thing. But it would change the balance of the world enormously.
Why do you assume Hispanic Americans will never vote conservative ? That’s a very odd opinion.
@contrarian, don't despair. This is an interesting piece from the NYT
The point: education more than ethnicity is likely to be the key determinant factor moving forwards. The news there is quite positive from a GOP standpoint: while student enrolment went up well over 40% from 1999 to 2011, it has actually been declining for the past few years and the projections are for a flatlining i.e. down as a % of the population. So, while the Democrats may have been boosted by the 1999-2011 growth, that engine of growth is slowing down.
Also, the values thing is the key. Black and Hispanic voters generally have more conservative values. The shift has already started to the GOP on the Republican side and, for young Black males, it is starting (remember many older Black voters have a very strong affinity to the Democrat party).
FWIW, I don't think that Biden will get 20m illegal immigrants made citizens - part because of the courts, part the Senate (Manchin wouldn't vote for it for a start and the AZ senators may have some qualms) and also because the political benefits may not be so great if illegal immigrants are concentrated in Democrat cities / states and such a measures means the loss of white votes.
One other point. It can be easy to overlook the shifts. Ohio, Iowa and, crucially, Florida are looking like safer Republican bets. Yes, Georgia and Arizona have gone the other way but the Democrats in 2024 are far more stretched in terms of defence - those two states, PA, WI and MI will all require considerable defending. For the Republicans, probably NC is the only one that looks vulnerable (I doubt the Democrats will go big on Texas next time).
Cheering the decline in educational standards for political partisanship is probably a good leading indicator for the decline of a once great empire!
The USA has never really been an Empire, a superpower yes but not an Empire
It’s a good job the people of Hawaii, the Philippines, Puerto Rico, Dakota, Oklahoma and New Mexico weren’t overwhelmed by the imperial outreach of the USA.
Imagine how miserable their lives would have been if they had been conquered, their lands and money seized and their resources ruthlessly exploited while anyone who resisted was shot.
The only one of those which are not part of the present USA is the Phillippines and it was only held for 50 years by the US before being given independence after being part of the Spanish Empire.
To be an Empire you have to have taken control of large numbers of countries and territories which are not part of your home nation
Says who? Says you?
I thought that was a generally accepted definition of an empire? A large territory consisting of vassal states.
So did France not have an empire because they integrated their colonial possessions into France proper?
The French Empire covered most of North Africa, Vietnam, Syria etc it was far larger than the extent of any US overseas possessions ever was and while Algeria may have been incorporated within France, Morocco, Vietnam, Syria etc were not
Oh, so is it only an Empire if the possessions are "overseas"? That rules out the Russian Empire I guess.
Alaska says hello.
Did Russia cease to be an Empire when it sold Alaska?
No, it was a large territory consisting of several distinct peoples ruled by a single authority. As I said earlier, one of the generally accepted definitions of an empire.
"distinct peoples" is arbitrary. Is modern Spain an Empire?
Is England under HYUFD an Empire? He did say how much he apprtoved of General Franco the other day.
No, England is a country, the UK a sovereign country and union
I will remind you of that next time you argue that English Tory MPs should always be allowed to override the democratically expressed will of the Scottish people.
Scots reaffirmed their commitment to the Union in the once in a generation 2014 referendum
Away and play with your spinal pad and pith helmet.
And you know you are losing the argument when you come up with the same old lie about generations.
As far as I'm concerned we are in a new generation now anyway.
1993 to 2020 was a generation of EU membership that faded into history. The last Sindyref under Salmond fell in that EU membership generation.
Now we are entering a new era of post Brexit politics. Nicola Sturgeon can be Picard in the Next Generation referendum.
You are a non Tory, Nat appeaser anyway.
However even Canada did not give Quebec its second independence referendum until 15 years after the first, which means 2029 at the earliest
I'm a democrat, it depends for me what the Scottish voters vote for.
Canada did not "give" Quebec a referendum. 🤦🏻♂️ The Québécois got a referendum when they unilaterally voted to hold one, not when they were "given" one. Had the Québécois voted to hold theirs earlier that would have been their choice, if the Scots choose to hold one that is their choice.
No you aren't always a democrat, not one poll shows most voters want No Deal Brexit but you are still determined they should have it anyway without further consultation
But that is your party policy. And you keep tyelling us party right or wrong.
Party policy in 2019 was actually still to aim for a Deal, I hope we still get a Deal, if the party leadership decides they can no longer agree one that is their decision but I will still argue for a Deal within the party. However I am not going to pretend the decision of the Tory government to pursue a No Deal Brexit will be the democratic will of the majority of the country but we are a representative not a direct democracy and voters can give their verdict on it at the next general election
Exactly - we are not slavishly bound by the results of past referenda or promises. So about time you stopped going on about 2014 and generations and gave the rest of us a break.
We are a representative democracy as I said, not a referendum based democracy, the Tories won a majority in 2019 at the UK general election on a platform to deliver Brexit at Westminster, our supreme legislative body.
There was no requirement for the Tories to grant indyref2, if Labour win the 2024 general election and decide to grant indyref2 that is up to them
It'll be up to them but it'll be BECAUSE of you guys. Good job.
The republicans won;t win in 2024 or ever again, no matter who they put up.
The party is now totally divided between the Trump wing and the McCain/Romney rump. The former now loathe the latter more than the democrats for not fighting with Trump against what they see as widespread vote rigging.
Meanwhile Joe Biden is intent on giving up to 20 million illegal immigrants citizenship as one of his first acts. Plus the immigration gates will be re-opened to many millions more.
Wonder who they are going to vote for.
Its over for the republicans. And right wing politics in America.
No, eventually they'll get tired of losing. It took the Tory party 8 years until they made Dave leader.
Nah the numbers are against you. A right wing coalition of any kind will be impossible after team Biden change America's demographics like they intend to.
America today. South Africa one day. Not that that's necessarily a bad thing. But it would change the balance of the world enormously.
Why do you assume Hispanic Americans will never vote conservative ? That’s a very odd opinion.
@contrarian, don't despair. This is an interesting piece from the NYT
The point: education more than ethnicity is likely to be the key determinant factor moving forwards. The news there is quite positive from a GOP standpoint: while student enrolment went up well over 40% from 1999 to 2011, it has actually been declining for the past few years and the projections are for a flatlining i.e. down as a % of the population. So, while the Democrats may have been boosted by the 1999-2011 growth, that engine of growth is slowing down.
Also, the values thing is the key. Black and Hispanic voters generally have more conservative values. The shift has already started to the GOP on the Republican side and, for young Black males, it is starting (remember many older Black voters have a very strong affinity to the Democrat party).
FWIW, I don't think that Biden will get 20m illegal immigrants made citizens - part because of the courts, part the Senate (Manchin wouldn't vote for it for a start and the AZ senators may have some qualms) and also because the political benefits may not be so great if illegal immigrants are concentrated in Democrat cities / states and such a measures means the loss of white votes.
One other point. It can be easy to overlook the shifts. Ohio, Iowa and, crucially, Florida are looking like safer Republican bets. Yes, Georgia and Arizona have gone the other way but the Democrats in 2024 are far more stretched in terms of defence - those two states, PA, WI and MI will all require considerable defending. For the Republicans, probably NC is the only one that looks vulnerable (I doubt the Democrats will go big on Texas next time).
Cheering the decline in educational standards for political partisanship is probably a good leading indicator for the decline of a once great empire!
The USA has never really been an Empire, a superpower yes but not an Empire
It’s a good job the people of Hawaii, the Philippines, Puerto Rico, Dakota, Oklahoma and New Mexico weren’t overwhelmed by the imperial outreach of the USA.
Imagine how miserable their lives would have been if they had been conquered, their lands and money seized and their resources ruthlessly exploited while anyone who resisted was shot.
The only one of those which are not part of the present USA is the Phillippines and it was only held for 50 years by the US before being given independence after being part of the Spanish Empire.
To be an Empire you have to have taken control of large numbers of countries and territories which are not part of your home nation
Says who? Says you?
I thought that was a generally accepted definition of an empire? A large territory consisting of vassal states.
So did France not have an empire because they integrated their colonial possessions into France proper?
The French Empire covered most of North Africa, Vietnam, Syria etc it was far larger than the extent of any US overseas possessions ever was and while Algeria may have been incorporated within France, Morocco, Vietnam, Syria etc were not
Oh, so is it only an Empire if the possessions are "overseas"? That rules out the Russian Empire I guess.
Alaska says hello.
Did Russia cease to be an Empire when it sold Alaska?
No, it was a large territory consisting of several distinct peoples ruled by a single authority. As I said earlier, one of the generally accepted definitions of an empire.
"distinct peoples" is arbitrary. Is modern Spain an Empire?
Is England under HYUFD an Empire? He did say how much he apprtoved of General Franco the other day.
No, England is a country, the UK a sovereign country and union
I will remind you of that next time you argue that English Tory MPs should always be allowed to override the democratically expressed will of the Scottish people.
Scots reaffirmed their commitment to the Union in the once in a generation 2014 referendum
Away and play with your spinal pad and pith helmet.
And you know you are losing the argument when you come up with the same old lie about generations.
As far as I'm concerned we are in a new generation now anyway.
1993 to 2020 was a generation of EU membership that faded into history. The last Sindyref under Salmond fell in that EU membership generation.
Now we are entering a new era of post Brexit politics. Nicola Sturgeon can be Picard in the Next Generation referendum.
You are a non Tory, Nat appeaser anyway.
However even Canada did not give Quebec its second independence referendum until 15 years after the first, which means 2029 at the earliest
I'm a democrat, it depends for me what the Scottish voters vote for.
Canada did not "give" Quebec a referendum. 🤦🏻♂️ The Québécois got a referendum when they unilaterally voted to hold one, not when they were "given" one. Had the Québécois voted to hold theirs earlier that would have been their choice, if the Scots choose to hold one that is their choice.
No you aren't always a democrat, not one poll shows most voters want No Deal Brexit but you are still determined they should have it anyway without further consultation
But that is your party policy. And you keep tyelling us party right or wrong.
Party policy in 2019 was actually still to aim for a Deal, I hope we still get a Deal, if the party leadership decides they can no longer agree one that is their decision but I will still argue for a Deal within the party. However I am not going to pretend the decision of the Tory government to pursue a No Deal Brexit will be the democratic will of the majority of the country but we are a representative not a direct democracy and voters can give their verdict on it at the next general election
Exactly - we are not slavishly bound by the results of past referenda or promises. So about time you stopped going on about 2014 and generations and gave the rest of us a break.
We are a representative democracy as I said, the Tories won a majority in 2019 at the UK general election on a platform to deliver Brexit at Westminster, our supreme legislative body.
There was no requirement for the Tories to grant indyref2, if Labour win the 2024 general election and decide to grant indyref2 that is up to them
Since you're so fond of referring to Quebec, the second Quebec referendum happened solely because the Québécois voted for it to happen. Not because the federal Canadians did.
The republicans won;t win in 2024 or ever again, no matter who they put up.
The party is now totally divided between the Trump wing and the McCain/Romney rump. The former now loathe the latter more than the democrats for not fighting with Trump against what they see as widespread vote rigging.
Meanwhile Joe Biden is intent on giving up to 20 million illegal immigrants citizenship as one of his first acts. Plus the immigration gates will be re-opened to many millions more.
Wonder who they are going to vote for.
Its over for the republicans. And right wing politics in America.
No, eventually they'll get tired of losing. It took the Tory party 8 years until they made Dave leader.
Nah the numbers are against you. A right wing coalition of any kind will be impossible after team Biden change America's demographics like they intend to.
America today. South Africa one day. Not that that's necessarily a bad thing. But it would change the balance of the world enormously.
Why do you assume Hispanic Americans will never vote conservative ? That’s a very odd opinion.
@contrarian, don't despair. This is an interesting piece from the NYT
The point: education more than ethnicity is likely to be the key determinant factor moving forwards. The news there is quite positive from a GOP standpoint: while student enrolment went up well over 40% from 1999 to 2011, it has actually been declining for the past few years and the projections are for a flatlining i.e. down as a % of the population. So, while the Democrats may have been boosted by the 1999-2011 growth, that engine of growth is slowing down.
Also, the values thing is the key. Black and Hispanic voters generally have more conservative values. The shift has already started to the GOP on the Republican side and, for young Black males, it is starting (remember many older Black voters have a very strong affinity to the Democrat party).
FWIW, I don't think that Biden will get 20m illegal immigrants made citizens - part because of the courts, part the Senate (Manchin wouldn't vote for it for a start and the AZ senators may have some qualms) and also because the political benefits may not be so great if illegal immigrants are concentrated in Democrat cities / states and such a measures means the loss of white votes.
One other point. It can be easy to overlook the shifts. Ohio, Iowa and, crucially, Florida are looking like safer Republican bets. Yes, Georgia and Arizona have gone the other way but the Democrats in 2024 are far more stretched in terms of defence - those two states, PA, WI and MI will all require considerable defending. For the Republicans, probably NC is the only one that looks vulnerable (I doubt the Democrats will go big on Texas next time).
Cheering the decline in educational standards for political partisanship is probably a good leading indicator for the decline of a once great empire!
The USA has never really been an Empire, a superpower yes but not an Empire
It’s a good job the people of Hawaii, the Philippines, Puerto Rico, Dakota, Oklahoma and New Mexico weren’t overwhelmed by the imperial outreach of the USA.
Imagine how miserable their lives would have been if they had been conquered, their lands and money seized and their resources ruthlessly exploited while anyone who resisted was shot.
The only one of those which are not part of the present USA is the Phillippines and it was only held for 50 years by the US before being given independence after being part of the Spanish Empire.
To be an Empire you have to have taken control of large numbers of countries and territories which are not part of your home nation
Says who? Says you?
I thought that was a generally accepted definition of an empire? A large territory consisting of vassal states.
So did France not have an empire because they integrated their colonial possessions into France proper?
The French Empire covered most of North Africa, Vietnam, Syria etc it was far larger than the extent of any US overseas possessions ever was and while Algeria may have been incorporated within France, Morocco, Vietnam, Syria etc were not
Oh, so is it only an Empire if the possessions are "overseas"? That rules out the Russian Empire I guess.
Alaska says hello.
Did Russia cease to be an Empire when it sold Alaska?
No, it was a large territory consisting of several distinct peoples ruled by a single authority. As I said earlier, one of the generally accepted definitions of an empire.
"distinct peoples" is arbitrary. Is modern Spain an Empire?
Is England under HYUFD an Empire? He did say how much he apprtoved of General Franco the other day.
No, England is a country, the UK a sovereign country and union
I will remind you of that next time you argue that English Tory MPs should always be allowed to override the democratically expressed will of the Scottish people.
Scots reaffirmed their commitment to the Union in the once in a generation 2014 referendum
Away and play with your spinal pad and pith helmet.
And you know you are losing the argument when you come up with the same old lie about generations.
The republicans won;t win in 2024 or ever again, no matter who they put up.
The party is now totally divided between the Trump wing and the McCain/Romney rump. The former now loathe the latter more than the democrats for not fighting with Trump against what they see as widespread vote rigging.
Meanwhile Joe Biden is intent on giving up to 20 million illegal immigrants citizenship as one of his first acts. Plus the immigration gates will be re-opened to many millions more.
Wonder who they are going to vote for.
Its over for the republicans. And right wing politics in America.
No, eventually they'll get tired of losing. It took the Tory party 8 years until they made Dave leader.
Nah the numbers are against you. A right wing coalition of any kind will be impossible after team Biden change America's demographics like they intend to.
America today. South Africa one day. Not that that's necessarily a bad thing. But it would change the balance of the world enormously.
Why do you assume Hispanic Americans will never vote conservative ? That’s a very odd opinion.
@contrarian, don't despair. This is an interesting piece from the NYT
The point: education more than ethnicity is likely to be the key determinant factor moving forwards. The news there is quite positive from a GOP standpoint: while student enrolment went up well over 40% from 1999 to 2011, it has actually been declining for the past few years and the projections are for a flatlining i.e. down as a % of the population. So, while the Democrats may have been boosted by the 1999-2011 growth, that engine of growth is slowing down.
Also, the values thing is the key. Black and Hispanic voters generally have more conservative values. The shift has already started to the GOP on the Republican side and, for young Black males, it is starting (remember many older Black voters have a very strong affinity to the Democrat party).
FWIW, I don't think that Biden will get 20m illegal immigrants made citizens - part because of the courts, part the Senate (Manchin wouldn't vote for it for a start and the AZ senators may have some qualms) and also because the political benefits may not be so great if illegal immigrants are concentrated in Democrat cities / states and such a measures means the loss of white votes.
One other point. It can be easy to overlook the shifts. Ohio, Iowa and, crucially, Florida are looking like safer Republican bets. Yes, Georgia and Arizona have gone the other way but the Democrats in 2024 are far more stretched in terms of defence - those two states, PA, WI and MI will all require considerable defending. For the Republicans, probably NC is the only one that looks vulnerable (I doubt the Democrats will go big on Texas next time).
Cheering the decline in educational standards for political partisanship is probably a good leading indicator for the decline of a once great empire!
The USA has never really been an Empire, a superpower yes but not an Empire
It’s a good job the people of Hawaii, the Philippines, Puerto Rico, Dakota, Oklahoma and New Mexico weren’t overwhelmed by the imperial outreach of the USA.
Imagine how miserable their lives would have been if they had been conquered, their lands and money seized and their resources ruthlessly exploited while anyone who resisted was shot.
The only one of those which are not part of the present USA is the Phillippines and it was only held for 50 years by the US before being given independence after being part of the Spanish Empire.
To be an Empire you have to have taken control of large numbers of countries and territories which are not part of your home nation
Says who? Says you?
I thought that was a generally accepted definition of an empire? A large territory consisting of vassal states.
So did France not have an empire because they integrated their colonial possessions into France proper?
The French Empire covered most of North Africa, Vietnam, Syria etc it was far larger than the extent of any US overseas possessions ever was and while Algeria may have been incorporated within France, Morocco, Vietnam, Syria etc were not
Oh, so is it only an Empire if the possessions are "overseas"? That rules out the Russian Empire I guess.
Alaska says hello.
Did Russia cease to be an Empire when it sold Alaska?
No, it was a large territory consisting of several distinct peoples ruled by a single authority. As I said earlier, one of the generally accepted definitions of an empire.
"distinct peoples" is arbitrary. Is modern Spain an Empire?
Is England under HYUFD an Empire? He did say how much he apprtoved of General Franco the other day.
No, England is a country, the UK a sovereign country and union
I will remind you of that next time you argue that English Tory MPs should always be allowed to override the democratically expressed will of the Scottish people.
Scots reaffirmed their commitment to the Union in the once in a generation 2014 referendum
Away and play with your spinal pad and pith helmet.
And you know you are losing the argument when you come up with the same old lie about generations.
The man is an utter fool
William Shatner managed quite a long gap in Generations. Maybe that’s the Starfleet captain Hyufd has in mind?
The republicans won;t win in 2024 or ever again, no matter who they put up.
The party is now totally divided between the Trump wing and the McCain/Romney rump. The former now loathe the latter more than the democrats for not fighting with Trump against what they see as widespread vote rigging.
Meanwhile Joe Biden is intent on giving up to 20 million illegal immigrants citizenship as one of his first acts. Plus the immigration gates will be re-opened to many millions more.
Wonder who they are going to vote for.
Its over for the republicans. And right wing politics in America.
No, eventually they'll get tired of losing. It took the Tory party 8 years until they made Dave leader.
Nah the numbers are against you. A right wing coalition of any kind will be impossible after team Biden change America's demographics like they intend to.
America today. South Africa one day. Not that that's necessarily a bad thing. But it would change the balance of the world enormously.
Why do you assume Hispanic Americans will never vote conservative ? That’s a very odd opinion.
@contrarian, don't despair. This is an interesting piece from the NYT
The point: education more than ethnicity is likely to be the key determinant factor moving forwards. The news there is quite positive from a GOP standpoint: while student enrolment went up well over 40% from 1999 to 2011, it has actually been declining for the past few years and the projections are for a flatlining i.e. down as a % of the population. So, while the Democrats may have been boosted by the 1999-2011 growth, that engine of growth is slowing down.
Also, the values thing is the key. Black and Hispanic voters generally have more conservative values. The shift has already started to the GOP on the Republican side and, for young Black males, it is starting (remember many older Black voters have a very strong affinity to the Democrat party).
FWIW, I don't think that Biden will get 20m illegal immigrants made citizens - part because of the courts, part the Senate (Manchin wouldn't vote for it for a start and the AZ senators may have some qualms) and also because the political benefits may not be so great if illegal immigrants are concentrated in Democrat cities / states and such a measures means the loss of white votes.
One other point. It can be easy to overlook the shifts. Ohio, Iowa and, crucially, Florida are looking like safer Republican bets. Yes, Georgia and Arizona have gone the other way but the Democrats in 2024 are far more stretched in terms of defence - those two states, PA, WI and MI will all require considerable defending. For the Republicans, probably NC is the only one that looks vulnerable (I doubt the Democrats will go big on Texas next time).
Cheering the decline in educational standards for political partisanship is probably a good leading indicator for the decline of a once great empire!
The USA has never really been an Empire, a superpower yes but not an Empire
It’s a good job the people of Hawaii, the Philippines, Puerto Rico, Dakota, Oklahoma and New Mexico weren’t overwhelmed by the imperial outreach of the USA.
Imagine how miserable their lives would have been if they had been conquered, their lands and money seized and their resources ruthlessly exploited while anyone who resisted was shot.
The only one of those which are not part of the present USA is the Phillippines and it was only held for 50 years by the US before being given independence after being part of the Spanish Empire.
To be an Empire you have to have taken control of large numbers of countries and territories which are not part of your home nation
Says who? Says you?
I thought that was a generally accepted definition of an empire? A large territory consisting of vassal states.
So did France not have an empire because they integrated their colonial possessions into France proper?
The French Empire covered most of North Africa, Vietnam, Syria etc it was far larger than the extent of any US overseas possessions ever was and while Algeria may have been incorporated within France, Morocco, Vietnam, Syria etc were not
Oh, so is it only an Empire if the possessions are "overseas"? That rules out the Russian Empire I guess.
Alaska says hello.
Did Russia cease to be an Empire when it sold Alaska?
No, it was a large territory consisting of several distinct peoples ruled by a single authority. As I said earlier, one of the generally accepted definitions of an empire.
"distinct peoples" is arbitrary. Is modern Spain an Empire?
Is England under HYUFD an Empire? He did say how much he apprtoved of General Franco the other day.
No, England is a country, the UK a sovereign country and union
I will remind you of that next time you argue that English Tory MPs should always be allowed to override the democratically expressed will of the Scottish people.
Scots reaffirmed their commitment to the Union in the once in a generation 2014 referendum
Away and play with your spinal pad and pith helmet.
And you know you are losing the argument when you come up with the same old lie about generations.
As far as I'm concerned we are in a new generation now anyway.
1993 to 2020 was a generation of EU membership that faded into history. The last Sindyref under Salmond fell in that EU membership generation.
Now we are entering a new era of post Brexit politics. Nicola Sturgeon can be Picard in the Next Generation referendum.
You are a non Tory, Nat appeaser anyway.
However even Canada did not give Quebec its second independence referendum until 15 years after the first, which means 2029 at the earliest
I'm a democrat, it depends for me what the Scottish voters vote for.
Canada did not "give" Quebec a referendum. 🤦🏻♂️ The Québécois got a referendum when they unilaterally voted to hold one, not when they were "given" one. Had the Québécois voted to hold theirs earlier that would have been their choice, if the Scots choose to hold one that is their choice.
No you aren't always a democrat, not one poll shows most voters want No Deal Brexit but you are still determined they should have it anyway without further consultation
But that is your party policy. And you keep tyelling us party right or wrong.
Party policy in 2019 was actually still to aim for a Deal, I hope we still get a Deal, if the party leadership decides they can no longer agree one that is their decision but I will still argue for a Deal within the party. However I am not going to pretend the decision of the Tory government to pursue a No Deal Brexit will be the democratic will of the majority of the country but we are a representative not a direct democracy and voters can give their verdict on it at the next general election
Exactly - we are not slavishly bound by the results of past referenda or promises. So about time you stopped going on about 2014 and generations and gave the rest of us a break.
We are a representative democracy as I said, the Tories won a majority in 2019 at the UK general election on a platform to deliver Brexit at Westminster, our supreme legislative body.
There was no requirement for the Tories to grant indyref2, if Labour win the 2024 general election and decide to grant indyref2 that is up to them
Since you're so fond of referring to Quebec, the second Quebec referendum happened solely because the Québécois voted for it to happen. Not because the federal Canadians did.
It needed the agreement of the Federal Canadian government too, without the approval of the central government as Madrid proved with Catalonia any such referendum is illegal and null and void.
Even if Sturgeon wins a majority next year and holds a referendum without Westminster consent Boris will tell Unionists in Scotland to boycott it and stay at home to ensure it has no legitimacy and then refuse to recognise the result.
The republicans won;t win in 2024 or ever again, no matter who they put up.
The party is now totally divided between the Trump wing and the McCain/Romney rump. The former now loathe the latter more than the democrats for not fighting with Trump against what they see as widespread vote rigging.
Meanwhile Joe Biden is intent on giving up to 20 million illegal immigrants citizenship as one of his first acts. Plus the immigration gates will be re-opened to many millions more.
Wonder who they are going to vote for.
Its over for the republicans. And right wing politics in America.
No, eventually they'll get tired of losing. It took the Tory party 8 years until they made Dave leader.
Nah the numbers are against you. A right wing coalition of any kind will be impossible after team Biden change America's demographics like they intend to.
America today. South Africa one day. Not that that's necessarily a bad thing. But it would change the balance of the world enormously.
Why do you assume Hispanic Americans will never vote conservative ? That’s a very odd opinion.
@contrarian, don't despair. This is an interesting piece from the NYT
The point: education more than ethnicity is likely to be the key determinant factor moving forwards. The news there is quite positive from a GOP standpoint: while student enrolment went up well over 40% from 1999 to 2011, it has actually been declining for the past few years and the projections are for a flatlining i.e. down as a % of the population. So, while the Democrats may have been boosted by the 1999-2011 growth, that engine of growth is slowing down.
Also, the values thing is the key. Black and Hispanic voters generally have more conservative values. The shift has already started to the GOP on the Republican side and, for young Black males, it is starting (remember many older Black voters have a very strong affinity to the Democrat party).
FWIW, I don't think that Biden will get 20m illegal immigrants made citizens - part because of the courts, part the Senate (Manchin wouldn't vote for it for a start and the AZ senators may have some qualms) and also because the political benefits may not be so great if illegal immigrants are concentrated in Democrat cities / states and such a measures means the loss of white votes.
One other point. It can be easy to overlook the shifts. Ohio, Iowa and, crucially, Florida are looking like safer Republican bets. Yes, Georgia and Arizona have gone the other way but the Democrats in 2024 are far more stretched in terms of defence - those two states, PA, WI and MI will all require considerable defending. For the Republicans, probably NC is the only one that looks vulnerable (I doubt the Democrats will go big on Texas next time).
Cheering the decline in educational standards for political partisanship is probably a good leading indicator for the decline of a once great empire!
The USA has never really been an Empire, a superpower yes but not an Empire
It’s a good job the people of Hawaii, the Philippines, Puerto Rico, Dakota, Oklahoma and New Mexico weren’t overwhelmed by the imperial outreach of the USA.
Imagine how miserable their lives would have been if they had been conquered, their lands and money seized and their resources ruthlessly exploited while anyone who resisted was shot.
The only one of those which are not part of the present USA is the Phillippines and it was only held for 50 years by the US before being given independence after being part of the Spanish Empire.
To be an Empire you have to have taken control of large numbers of countries and territories which are not part of your home nation
Says who? Says you?
I thought that was a generally accepted definition of an empire? A large territory consisting of vassal states.
So did France not have an empire because they integrated their colonial possessions into France proper?
The French Empire covered most of North Africa, Vietnam, Syria etc it was far larger than the extent of any US overseas possessions ever was and while Algeria may have been incorporated within France, Morocco, Vietnam, Syria etc were not
Oh, so is it only an Empire if the possessions are "overseas"? That rules out the Russian Empire I guess.
Nope, included within my original definition 'To be an Empire you have to have taken control of large numbers of countries which are not part of your home nation'
So you agree the USA was an Empire then. Glad we agree.
Party policy in 2019 was actually still to aim for a Deal, I hope we still get a Deal, if the party leadership decides they can no longer agree one that is their decision but I will still argue for a Deal within the party. However I am not going to pretend the decision of the Tory government to pursue a No Deal Brexit will be the democratic will of the majority of the country but we are a representative not a direct democracy and voters can give their verdict on it at the next general election
If we do not get a Deal, the consequences of that will be something you will have to defend when you go out to canvass for the Conservative Party but that's part of politics - you have to accentuate the successes but admit when things have been less than optimal.
The issue of how "long" a referendum result stands is a difficult one. To be fair, despite having opposed it, the Conservatives have never (to my knowledge) publicly stated they would abolish the post of Mayor of London and no one has suggested another referendum on the subject.
What of the Welsh Senedd? That was a very close referendum result - as I recall, the Conservatives opposed the setting up of the Senedd but is the Party's position now to hold a second referendum? Again, I don't believe so.
Yet we are told the EU membership and the Scottish independence referenda are "once in a generation" decisions. I suspect recent experiences have discredited the notion of referenda but all that means is manifesto commitments will be considered mandates to proceed if majorities are won.
IF Starmer and Labour win a 2024 election on a commitment to renegotiate the economic relationship with the EU to move to say "BINO", would the next Conservative manifesto have a commitment to re-negotiate that Deal to something more distant? Is it a good idea to re-negotiate the trading relationship every 4-5 years? I suspect not.
The republicans won;t win in 2024 or ever again, no matter who they put up.
The party is now totally divided between the Trump wing and the McCain/Romney rump. The former now loathe the latter more than the democrats for not fighting with Trump against what they see as widespread vote rigging.
Meanwhile Joe Biden is intent on giving up to 20 million illegal immigrants citizenship as one of his first acts. Plus the immigration gates will be re-opened to many millions more.
Wonder who they are going to vote for.
Its over for the republicans. And right wing politics in America.
No, eventually they'll get tired of losing. It took the Tory party 8 years until they made Dave leader.
Nah the numbers are against you. A right wing coalition of any kind will be impossible after team Biden change America's demographics like they intend to.
America today. South Africa one day. Not that that's necessarily a bad thing. But it would change the balance of the world enormously.
Why do you assume Hispanic Americans will never vote conservative ? That’s a very odd opinion.
@contrarian, don't despair. This is an interesting piece from the NYT
The point: education more than ethnicity is likely to be the key determinant factor moving forwards. The news there is quite positive from a GOP standpoint: while student enrolment went up well over 40% from 1999 to 2011, it has actually been declining for the past few years and the projections are for a flatlining i.e. down as a % of the population. So, while the Democrats may have been boosted by the 1999-2011 growth, that engine of growth is slowing down.
Also, the values thing is the key. Black and Hispanic voters generally have more conservative values. The shift has already started to the GOP on the Republican side and, for young Black males, it is starting (remember many older Black voters have a very strong affinity to the Democrat party).
FWIW, I don't think that Biden will get 20m illegal immigrants made citizens - part because of the courts, part the Senate (Manchin wouldn't vote for it for a start and the AZ senators may have some qualms) and also because the political benefits may not be so great if illegal immigrants are concentrated in Democrat cities / states and such a measures means the loss of white votes.
One other point. It can be easy to overlook the shifts. Ohio, Iowa and, crucially, Florida are looking like safer Republican bets. Yes, Georgia and Arizona have gone the other way but the Democrats in 2024 are far more stretched in terms of defence - those two states, PA, WI and MI will all require considerable defending. For the Republicans, probably NC is the only one that looks vulnerable (I doubt the Democrats will go big on Texas next time).
Cheering the decline in educational standards for political partisanship is probably a good leading indicator for the decline of a once great empire!
The USA has never really been an Empire, a superpower yes but not an Empire
It’s a good job the people of Hawaii, the Philippines, Puerto Rico, Dakota, Oklahoma and New Mexico weren’t overwhelmed by the imperial outreach of the USA.
Imagine how miserable their lives would have been if they had been conquered, their lands and money seized and their resources ruthlessly exploited while anyone who resisted was shot.
The only one of those which are not part of the present USA is the Phillippines and it was only held for 50 years by the US before being given independence after being part of the Spanish Empire.
To be an Empire you have to have taken control of large numbers of countries and territories which are not part of your home nation
Says who? Says you?
I thought that was a generally accepted definition of an empire? A large territory consisting of vassal states.
So did France not have an empire because they integrated their colonial possessions into France proper?
The French Empire covered most of North Africa, Vietnam, Syria etc it was far larger than the extent of any US overseas possessions ever was and while Algeria may have been incorporated within France, Morocco, Vietnam, Syria etc were not
Oh, so is it only an Empire if the possessions are "overseas"? That rules out the Russian Empire I guess.
Or the Mongolian. While England will still have an empire until Wight gets its independence.
The republicans won;t win in 2024 or ever again, no matter who they put up.
The party is now totally divided between the Trump wing and the McCain/Romney rump. The former now loathe the latter more than the democrats for not fighting with Trump against what they see as widespread vote rigging.
Meanwhile Joe Biden is intent on giving up to 20 million illegal immigrants citizenship as one of his first acts. Plus the immigration gates will be re-opened to many millions more.
Wonder who they are going to vote for.
Its over for the republicans. And right wing politics in America.
No, eventually they'll get tired of losing. It took the Tory party 8 years until they made Dave leader.
Nah the numbers are against you. A right wing coalition of any kind will be impossible after team Biden change America's demographics like they intend to.
America today. South Africa one day. Not that that's necessarily a bad thing. But it would change the balance of the world enormously.
Why do you assume Hispanic Americans will never vote conservative ? That’s a very odd opinion.
@contrarian, don't despair. This is an interesting piece from the NYT
The point: education more than ethnicity is likely to be the key determinant factor moving forwards. The news there is quite positive from a GOP standpoint: while student enrolment went up well over 40% from 1999 to 2011, it has actually been declining for the past few years and the projections are for a flatlining i.e. down as a % of the population. So, while the Democrats may have been boosted by the 1999-2011 growth, that engine of growth is slowing down.
Also, the values thing is the key. Black and Hispanic voters generally have more conservative values. The shift has already started to the GOP on the Republican side and, for young Black males, it is starting (remember many older Black voters have a very strong affinity to the Democrat party).
FWIW, I don't think that Biden will get 20m illegal immigrants made citizens - part because of the courts, part the Senate (Manchin wouldn't vote for it for a start and the AZ senators may have some qualms) and also because the political benefits may not be so great if illegal immigrants are concentrated in Democrat cities / states and such a measures means the loss of white votes.
One other point. It can be easy to overlook the shifts. Ohio, Iowa and, crucially, Florida are looking like safer Republican bets. Yes, Georgia and Arizona have gone the other way but the Democrats in 2024 are far more stretched in terms of defence - those two states, PA, WI and MI will all require considerable defending. For the Republicans, probably NC is the only one that looks vulnerable (I doubt the Democrats will go big on Texas next time).
Cheering the decline in educational standards for political partisanship is probably a good leading indicator for the decline of a once great empire!
The USA has never really been an Empire, a superpower yes but not an Empire
It’s a good job the people of Hawaii, the Philippines, Puerto Rico, Dakota, Oklahoma and New Mexico weren’t overwhelmed by the imperial outreach of the USA.
Imagine how miserable their lives would have been if they had been conquered, their lands and money seized and their resources ruthlessly exploited while anyone who resisted was shot.
The only one of those which are not part of the present USA is the Phillippines and it was only held for 50 years by the US before being given independence after being part of the Spanish Empire.
To be an Empire you have to have taken control of large numbers of countries and territories which are not part of your home nation
Says who? Says you?
I thought that was a generally accepted definition of an empire? A large territory consisting of vassal states.
So did France not have an empire because they integrated their colonial possessions into France proper?
The French Empire covered most of North Africa, Vietnam, Syria etc it was far larger than the extent of any US overseas possessions ever was and while Algeria may have been incorporated within France, Morocco, Vietnam, Syria etc were not
Oh, so is it only an Empire if the possessions are "overseas"? That rules out the Russian Empire I guess.
Alaska says hello.
Did Russia cease to be an Empire when it sold Alaska?
No, it was a large territory consisting of several distinct peoples ruled by a single authority. As I said earlier, one of the generally accepted definitions of an empire.
"distinct peoples" is arbitrary. Is modern Spain an Empire?
I literally used the definition from the first sentence in the wikipedia article.
You're going round in circles.
If Russia was an Empire, If Brazil was an Empire, if Austria-Hungary was an Empire, then the USA was an Empire. The fact that the continuous USA is still one nation state is neither here nor there.
From the same article:
The United States is not traditionally recognized as an empire, in part because the U.S. adopted a different political system from those that previous empires had used. Despite these systematic differences, the political objectives and strategies of the United States government have been quite similar to those of previous empires.[67]
The republicans won;t win in 2024 or ever again, no matter who they put up.
The party is now totally divided between the Trump wing and the McCain/Romney rump. The former now loathe the latter more than the democrats for not fighting with Trump against what they see as widespread vote rigging.
Meanwhile Joe Biden is intent on giving up to 20 million illegal immigrants citizenship as one of his first acts. Plus the immigration gates will be re-opened to many millions more.
Wonder who they are going to vote for.
Its over for the republicans. And right wing politics in America.
No, eventually they'll get tired of losing. It took the Tory party 8 years until they made Dave leader.
Nah the numbers are against you. A right wing coalition of any kind will be impossible after team Biden change America's demographics like they intend to.
America today. South Africa one day. Not that that's necessarily a bad thing. But it would change the balance of the world enormously.
Why do you assume Hispanic Americans will never vote conservative ? That’s a very odd opinion.
@contrarian, don't despair. This is an interesting piece from the NYT
The point: education more than ethnicity is likely to be the key determinant factor moving forwards. The news there is quite positive from a GOP standpoint: while student enrolment went up well over 40% from 1999 to 2011, it has actually been declining for the past few years and the projections are for a flatlining i.e. down as a % of the population. So, while the Democrats may have been boosted by the 1999-2011 growth, that engine of growth is slowing down.
Also, the values thing is the key. Black and Hispanic voters generally have more conservative values. The shift has already started to the GOP on the Republican side and, for young Black males, it is starting (remember many older Black voters have a very strong affinity to the Democrat party).
FWIW, I don't think that Biden will get 20m illegal immigrants made citizens - part because of the courts, part the Senate (Manchin wouldn't vote for it for a start and the AZ senators may have some qualms) and also because the political benefits may not be so great if illegal immigrants are concentrated in Democrat cities / states and such a measures means the loss of white votes.
One other point. It can be easy to overlook the shifts. Ohio, Iowa and, crucially, Florida are looking like safer Republican bets. Yes, Georgia and Arizona have gone the other way but the Democrats in 2024 are far more stretched in terms of defence - those two states, PA, WI and MI will all require considerable defending. For the Republicans, probably NC is the only one that looks vulnerable (I doubt the Democrats will go big on Texas next time).
Cheering the decline in educational standards for political partisanship is probably a good leading indicator for the decline of a once great empire!
The USA has never really been an Empire, a superpower yes but not an Empire
It’s a good job the people of Hawaii, the Philippines, Puerto Rico, Dakota, Oklahoma and New Mexico weren’t overwhelmed by the imperial outreach of the USA.
Imagine how miserable their lives would have been if they had been conquered, their lands and money seized and their resources ruthlessly exploited while anyone who resisted was shot.
The only one of those which are not part of the present USA is the Phillippines and it was only held for 50 years by the US before being given independence after being part of the Spanish Empire.
To be an Empire you have to have taken control of large numbers of countries and territories which are not part of your home nation
Says who? Says you?
I thought that was a generally accepted definition of an empire? A large territory consisting of vassal states.
So did France not have an empire because they integrated their colonial possessions into France proper?
The French Empire covered most of North Africa, Vietnam, Syria etc it was far larger than the extent of any US overseas possessions ever was and while Algeria may have been incorporated within France, Morocco, Vietnam, Syria etc were not
Oh, so is it only an Empire if the possessions are "overseas"? That rules out the Russian Empire I guess.
Alaska says hello.
Did Russia cease to be an Empire when it sold Alaska?
No, it was a large territory consisting of several distinct peoples ruled by a single authority. As I said earlier, one of the generally accepted definitions of an empire.
"distinct peoples" is arbitrary. Is modern Spain an Empire?
Is England under HYUFD an Empire? He did say how much he apprtoved of General Franco the other day.
No, England is a country, the UK a sovereign country and union
I will remind you of that next time you argue that English Tory MPs should always be allowed to override the democratically expressed will of the Scottish people.
Scots reaffirmed their commitment to the Union in the once in a generation 2014 referendum
Away and play with your spinal pad and pith helmet.
And you know you are losing the argument when you come up with the same old lie about generations.
As far as I'm concerned we are in a new generation now anyway.
1993 to 2020 was a generation of EU membership that faded into history. The last Sindyref under Salmond fell in that EU membership generation.
Now we are entering a new era of post Brexit politics. Nicola Sturgeon can be Picard in the Next Generation referendum.
You are a non Tory, Nat appeaser anyway.
However even Canada did not give Quebec its second independence referendum until 15 years after the first, which means 2029 at the earliest
I'm a democrat, it depends for me what the Scottish voters vote for.
Canada did not "give" Quebec a referendum. 🤦🏻♂️ The Québécois got a referendum when they unilaterally voted to hold one, not when they were "given" one. Had the Québécois voted to hold theirs earlier that would have been their choice, if the Scots choose to hold one that is their choice.
No you aren't always a democrat, not one poll shows most voters want No Deal Brexit but you are still determined they should have it anyway without further consultation
But that is your party policy. And you keep tyelling us party right or wrong.
Party policy in 2019 was actually still to aim for a Deal, I hope we still get a Deal, if the party leadership decides they can no longer agree one that is their decision but I will still argue for a Deal within the party. However I am not going to pretend the decision of the Tory government to pursue a No Deal Brexit will be the democratic will of the majority of the country but we are a representative not a direct democracy and voters can give their verdict on it at the next general election
Exactly - we are not slavishly bound by the results of past referenda or promises. So about time you stopped going on about 2014 and generations and gave the rest of us a break.
We are a representative democracy as I said, the Tories won a majority in 2019 at the UK general election on a platform to deliver Brexit at Westminster, our supreme legislative body.
There was no requirement for the Tories to grant indyref2, if Labour win the 2024 general election and decide to grant indyref2 that is up to them
Since you're so fond of referring to Quebec, the second Quebec referendum happened solely because the Québécois voted for it to happen. Not because the federal Canadians did.
It needed the agreement of the Federal Canadian government too
Comments
Unless one considers AV to be "horrible shite" of course.
Brazil was an Empire because it had an Emperor, it ceases to be an Empire when it became a republic.
The USA has always been a republic.
The fact remains that whilst the United States is not traditionally regard as an Empire, it exhibits many of the characteristics of one. It's entirely reasonable to argue such a classification and it's not reasonable to HYFUD-splain away any suggestion of that fact.
https://twitter.com/USAmbUK/status/1335626562239160323?s=20
HYUFD saying something normally means the opposite is true for me.
'An empire is a sovereign state consisting of several territories and peoples subject to a single ruling authority, often an emperor.'
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empire
And you know you are losing the argument when you come up with the same old lie about generations.
French thinking they held all the aces. Yet the final result will show for all time, the French being losers. Again.
Were you watching Mr Barnier? Mr Macron?
1993 to 2020 was a generation of EU membership that faded into history. The last Sindyref under Salmond fell in that EU membership generation.
Now we are entering a new era of post Brexit politics. Nicola Sturgeon can be Picard in the Next Generation referendum.
However even Canada did not give Quebec its second independence referendum until 15 years after the first, which means 2029 at the earliest
Canada did not "give" Quebec a referendum. 🤦🏻♂️ The Québécois got a referendum when they unilaterally voted to hold one, not when they were "given" one. Had the Québécois voted to hold theirs earlier that would have been their choice, if the Scots choose to hold one that is their choice.
Was the Angevin Empire an "Empire" as we understand it? Yes, the lands were ruled by a single family but they were, as I recall, separately governed so it wasn't an empire like Germany, Austria or Russia. Indeed, England, Ireland and the areas of France ruled by the Angevins weren't I think politically joined at all but I stand to be corrected on that.
Hang on, was Spain ever ruled by an Emperor? Charles V was Holy Roman Emperor and King of Spain but that didn't mean the two states were united. We talk about a Spanish Empire but there was never a Spanish Emperor.
(ok, I know Suffolk only borders Norfolk)
I would prefer a deal if one can be agreed that means the UK controls it's laws, money etc as the manifesto of twelve months ago said but if one can't then so be it.
If there is a lesson to learn from Quebec, then it is that Canada has remained intact as a functioning country because the provinces are very powerful and the central government very loose.
Not merely are the provinces very powerful, Quebec itself has more powers than any other province, e.g., including control of immigration.
It is interesting that ... 25 years later ... there has not been a third Quebec referendum, given the second one in 1995 was lost so very narrowly.
There is a lesson to be learnt there .... but not I think the lesson you are trying to teach us.
EDIT: Perez is off anyway. He'll be glad to leave that list.
There was no requirement for the Tories to grant indyref2, if Labour win the 2024 general election and decide to grant indyref2 that is up to them
Even if Sturgeon wins a majority next year and holds a referendum without Westminster consent Boris will tell Unionists in Scotland to boycott it and stay at home to ensure it has no legitimacy and then refuse to recognise the result.
Needs the likes of Russell in every race.
The issue of how "long" a referendum result stands is a difficult one. To be fair, despite having opposed it, the Conservatives have never (to my knowledge) publicly stated they would abolish the post of Mayor of London and no one has suggested another referendum on the subject.
What of the Welsh Senedd? That was a very close referendum result - as I recall, the Conservatives opposed the setting up of the Senedd but is the Party's position now to hold a second referendum? Again, I don't believe so.
Yet we are told the EU membership and the Scottish independence referenda are "once in a generation" decisions. I suspect recent experiences have discredited the notion of referenda but all that means is manifesto commitments will be considered mandates to proceed if majorities are won.
IF Starmer and Labour win a 2024 election on a commitment to renegotiate the economic relationship with the EU to move to say "BINO", would the next Conservative manifesto have a commitment to re-negotiate that Deal to something more distant? Is it a good idea to re-negotiate the trading relationship every 4-5 years? I suspect not.
Oh, well. Had to make do with the Sainz bet coming off. And the 61 on Perez I mentioned when I first saw Hamilton was off the race.
Most profitable race since Spain 2016.