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Increased geography. Devolution, independence, and Brexit – politicalbetting.com

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  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392
    edited November 2020

    I was surprised to hear on the radio that Boris Johnson believed in evolution, even though he was caught saying that it had "been a disaster". I assumed he accepted the Darwinist proposition, but I wondered if he thought we were better off when we were swinging through the trees.

    Turns out I slightly mis-heard.

    --AS

    You jest, but I would say that evolution has turned into a disaster for earth, as a result of producing one species capable of buggering up the planet for everyone else.
    Covid-19?
  • kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    LadyG said:

    Remember when Britain was the WORST IN EUROPE AT COVID, A GLOBAL HELLSPOT WITH LEOPARDS EATING BABIES IN COLCHESTER TESCO

    Very quietly, Britain has been over taken in deaths per million by Belgium, Spain and Italy. It will soon be over taken by the USA, Mexico and possibly even France (on present trajectories), leaving us around 15th in the world.

    The UK has done some things well and done some things badly.

    Most countries are variations of the same general pattern.
    That's not a very edgy comment.
    Disappointed :wink:

    It might not be edgy but I think its true.

    I'd also say that the performance of countries / organisations / individuals during the second wave is more judgeworthy - there was more luck involved in the first wave and people have now had time to learn and prepare.

    So here are some more not very edgy conclusions - the supermarkets have done well, the Treasury has surprised on the upside, Grant Shapps is an imbecile.
    Shapps in particular? I can't say I've noticed him breaking from the pack.
    Well he's always had a bad combination of being rubbish plus thinking he was brilliant.

    But this year he did sod all to restrict entry in March when any sensible country was putting on restrictions, allowed another lot of covid to enter in the summer by encouraging foreign holidays, got caught in Spain after quarantine restrictions were finally placed upon it and in his latest masterstroke is allowing people from countries endemic with covid to come and work in meat processing factories which have a history of covid outbreaks.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,836
    edited November 2020
    isam said:

    dixiedean said:

    isam said:

    Has anyone had much experience of the MMR jabs effect on their kids in the days after it being administered?

    One of my had a fever for a couple of days. Never discovered if it was connected or a coincidence. Other no effect.
    Mine had a fever and was listless today after having the jab yesterday and is currently waiting to be discharged after his Grandparents took him to hospital in an ambulance. A bit worrying
    Oh dear. Sorry to hear that. Hope things go well for you and them.
    Sounds very much like mine although without the hospital. Hopefully after a couple of days all will similarly be well.
    Good luck.
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 1,749
    algarkirk said:

    Pagan2 said:

    johnt said:

    Exceedingly well put Alastair. The UK is being driven apart by the hard line minority and it will result in the end of the union and a greatly diminished England as well. We are becoming a global irrelevance being driven by a clique of king Canute's who are arguing that in the end the tide of the modern world will understand that England is the centre of the universe and everything will have to bend to our will. I have no idea why the Scottish would want to stay in a union which appears to be grounded in an understanding of the world which is 150 years out of date.

    There are quite a few on here that seem to like the union and would be disappointed if it ended. I have yet however to hear them advance good reasons for why they think the union is great. It all seems to be we have been a single nation since....(pick start date of your choice). The same mistake remainers made during the referendum. It was all dire warnings about what would occur if we left with no praise for the practicalities of the eu merely flummery like the eu brought peace to europe
    The merits of the Great Britain union are formed by geology and found by looking at a map. The merits of united Ireland are discovered in the same way. The present UK, partly based on a mixture of ancient imperialism and religious nonsense, ought to be a gateway to either two states called, respectively, Britain and Ireland, or one state called Britain and Ireland.

    If people could stop squabbling about trivia now would be an excellent time to sort it. The guns have been put away in Ireland, and the sense in Britain of sharing a single island is palpable. Go for it.

    If it hadn’t been for that pesky Iapetus Suture....
  • Former public health officials tear into the 'moonshot' mass testing plan being piloted in Liverpool.

    "Spending the equivalent of 77% of the NHS annual revenue budget on an unevaluated underdesigned national programme leading to a regressive, insufficiently supported intervention—in many cases for the wrong people—cannot be defended."

    "Despite claims by the city council that the Innova test is “very accurate with high sensitivity and specificity,”2 it has not been evaluated in these conditions. The test’s instructions for use state that it should not be used on asymptomatic people. A preliminary evaluation from Porton Down and Oxford University9 throws little light on its performance in asymptomatic people or in the field. It suggests the test misses between one in two and one in four cases. The false positive rate of 0.6% means that at the current prevalence in Liverpool, for every person found truly positive, at least one other may be wrongly required to self-isolate. As prevalence drops, this will become much worse."

    https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4436
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 24,585

    Starmer has just made a huge mistake

    Re-admitting Corbyn is beyond belief and he has bowed to the union barons

    Wrong on so many levels


    It isn't Starmer's decision, but don't let the facts get in the way of your narrative.

    Corbyn is an abomination, and I would prefer him nowhere near the Labour Party if they are to get my vote. However, you support a political organisation of which Christopher Chope is a Member of Parliament, and your party successfully nominated him for a knighthood.

    There are some nasty pieces of work in all political parties, except maybe the SNP...oh wait wasn't Alex Salmond once their leader?
  • Former public health officials tear into the 'moonshot' mass testing plan being piloted in Liverpool.

    "Spending the equivalent of 77% of the NHS annual revenue budget on an unevaluated underdesigned national programme leading to a regressive, insufficiently supported intervention—in many cases for the wrong people—cannot be defended."

    "Despite claims by the city council that the Innova test is “very accurate with high sensitivity and specificity,”2 it has not been evaluated in these conditions. The test’s instructions for use state that it should not be used on asymptomatic people. A preliminary evaluation from Porton Down and Oxford University9 throws little light on its performance in asymptomatic people or in the field. It suggests the test misses between one in two and one in four cases. The false positive rate of 0.6% means that at the current prevalence in Liverpool, for every person found truly positive, at least one other may be wrongly required to self-isolate. As prevalence drops, this will become much worse."

    https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4436


    "Spending the equivalent of 77% of the NHS annual revenue budget.... "

    WTF?

    Where do the Tories keep that Magic Money Tree? Has Labour noticed it has gone missing yet?
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Some pretty awful Virus numbers coming in from the US. Could be looking at over 200,000 new cases and something in the region of 2,000 deaths.

    Somebody better call the President in from the golf course.

    In 2009 the GOP blmaed the Great Financial Crash on Obama.

    In 2021 they will be blaming Covid on Biden.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,068
    isam said:

    isam said:

    Has anyone had much experience of the MMR jabs effect on their kids in the days after it being administered?

    Two kids - only effect was a few seconds of crying after the injection which they stopped with after a cuddle.

    No side effects or anything else afterwards.
    Lucky you. Maybe it is just a coincidence but my son has been red hot ever since he had it, and the hospital are saying he has inflammation in his throat too
    Fox jr was a bit mardy and grisly after it, but better 24 hours later. Such reactions are quite common with vaccinations, I still feel a little rough after a flu jab. It is a sign of immune system activation.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,723
    Scott_xP said:
    How did that happen?

    I thought it was still 53-47
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,851

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Mr Meekes on excellent form, I see.

    Sadly, he doesn't seem to post any more which is a pity. I guess that like me he is just waiting for 2021 and the opportunity to grovel in apology when Brexit turns out to be a spiffing success.

    How embarrassing this is going to be for us unreconstructed Remainers. How many years in ConHome will we be sentenced to?

    Shudder.

    It would be an utter hell on earth in this country if Brexit was a roaring success. I would probably emigrate.
    to independent scotland?
    Too cold! My sister has just moved there though. Remote farmhouse in D&G.

    Will I soon need a passport to visit her?
    According to HYUFD and similar, D&G will remain firmly Yookayish whatever happens. In fact he will be cosplaying a Black & Tan on the streets of Wanlockhead to make it so.
    Ah, so that will be quite a sophisticated referendum then!

    Just thinking, my sister will get a Sindy vote, I suppose. We don't talk politics much, she and I, but my sense is although she dislikes Johnson and likes Sturgeon that will not be one you can count on.
  • Scott_xP said:
    What? Kind of the way that many things had the EU flag on them?
  • Starmer has just made a huge mistake

    Re-admitting Corbyn is beyond belief and he has bowed to the union barons

    Wrong on so many levels


    It isn't Starmer's decision, but don't let the facts get in the way of your narrative.

    Corbyn is an abomination, and I would prefer him nowhere near the Labour Party if they are to get my vote. However, you support a political organisation of which Christopher Chope is a Member of Parliament, and your party successfully nominated him for a knighthood.

    There are some nasty pieces of work in all political parties, except maybe the SNP...oh wait wasn't Alex Salmond once their leader?
    Starmer can always chuck Corbyn out again...
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,281

    Scott_xP said:
    How did that happen?

    I thought it was still 53-47
    Two Reps isolating with Covid; Romney and Collins voted with the Dems.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,723

    Scott_xP said:
    How did that happen?

    I thought it was still 53-47
    Oh. Two Republicans voted against, while two were in quarantine
  • I was surprised to hear on the radio that Boris Johnson believed in evolution, even though he was caught saying that it had "been a disaster". I assumed he accepted the Darwinist proposition, but I wondered if he thought we were better off when we were swinging through the trees.

    Turns out I slightly mis-heard.

    --AS

    You jest, but I would say that evolution has turned into a disaster for earth, as a result of producing one species capable of buggering up the planet for everyone else.
    Perhaps, but on the plus side perhaps it produced the species capable of leaving the planet, to find countless others to bugger up...

    --AS
  • Former public health officials tear into the 'moonshot' mass testing plan being piloted in Liverpool.

    "Spending the equivalent of 77% of the NHS annual revenue budget on an unevaluated underdesigned national programme leading to a regressive, insufficiently supported intervention—in many cases for the wrong people—cannot be defended."

    "Despite claims by the city council that the Innova test is “very accurate with high sensitivity and specificity,”2 it has not been evaluated in these conditions. The test’s instructions for use state that it should not be used on asymptomatic people. A preliminary evaluation from Porton Down and Oxford University9 throws little light on its performance in asymptomatic people or in the field. It suggests the test misses between one in two and one in four cases. The false positive rate of 0.6% means that at the current prevalence in Liverpool, for every person found truly positive, at least one other may be wrongly required to self-isolate. As prevalence drops, this will become much worse."

    https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4436


    "Spending the equivalent of 77% of the NHS annual revenue budget.... "

    WTF?

    Where do the Tories keep that Magic Money Tree? Has Labour noticed it has gone missing yet?
    NHS annual budget ≈ £130billion

    Moonshot testing ≈ £100billion (although whether that will all be spent once it becomes unarguably a failure who knows)
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited November 2020

    Former public health officials tear into the 'moonshot' mass testing plan being piloted in Liverpool.

    "Spending the equivalent of 77% of the NHS annual revenue budget on an unevaluated underdesigned national programme leading to a regressive, insufficiently supported intervention—in many cases for the wrong people—cannot be defended."

    "Despite claims by the city council that the Innova test is “very accurate with high sensitivity and specificity,”2 it has not been evaluated in these conditions. The test’s instructions for use state that it should not be used on asymptomatic people. A preliminary evaluation from Porton Down and Oxford University9 throws little light on its performance in asymptomatic people or in the field. It suggests the test misses between one in two and one in four cases. The false positive rate of 0.6% means that at the current prevalence in Liverpool, for every person found truly positive, at least one other may be wrongly required to self-isolate. As prevalence drops, this will become much worse."

    https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4436


    "Spending the equivalent of 77% of the NHS annual revenue budget.... "

    WTF?

    Where do the Tories keep that Magic Money Tree? Has Labour noticed it has gone missing yet?
    This 100bn figure get banded around a lot. Do we actually have proper source it? Because we had the FT the other day claims 42bn being thrown at contracts for this, and when we actually looked it was more like 2bn. The rest was invites for long term tenders related to NHS testing and diagnostics for all disaeses.
  • Starmer has just made a huge mistake

    Re-admitting Corbyn is beyond belief and he has bowed to the union barons

    Wrong on so many levels


    It isn't Starmer's decision, but don't let the facts get in the way of your narrative.

    Corbyn is an abomination, and I would prefer him nowhere near the Labour Party if they are to get my vote. However, you support a political organisation of which Christopher Chope is a Member of Parliament, and your party successfully nominated him for a knighthood.

    There are some nasty pieces of work in all political parties, except maybe the SNP...oh wait wasn't Alex Salmond once their leader?
    https://twitter.com/jonkennaugh/status/1328777417373126656
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,748
    edited November 2020
    Scott_xP said:
    Ok, take it as read that I'm a zoomer nat and you're a yoon, but is there anything that these people have done that implies that they have an actual strategy, or as every indication suggests do they really not have a fcuking clue?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 24,585

    Starmer has just made a huge mistake

    Re-admitting Corbyn is beyond belief and he has bowed to the union barons

    Wrong on so many levels


    It isn't Starmer's decision, but don't let the facts get in the way of your narrative.

    Corbyn is an abomination, and I would prefer him nowhere near the Labour Party if they are to get my vote. However, you support a political organisation of which Christopher Chope is a Member of Parliament, and your party successfully nominated him for a knighthood.

    There are some nasty pieces of work in all political parties, except maybe the SNP...oh wait wasn't Alex Salmond once their leader?
    Starmer can always chuck Corbyn out again...
    No point, he keeps coming back, although Corbyn's hand wringing grovelling is a sight to behold.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,083
    kinabalu said:

    LadyG said:

    eek said:

    kinabalu said:

    Mr Meekes on excellent form, I see.

    Sadly, he doesn't seem to post any more which is a pity. I guess that like me he is just waiting for 2021 and the opportunity to grovel in apology when Brexit turns out to be a spiffing success.

    How embarrassing this is going to be for us unreconstructed Remainers. How many years in ConHome will we be sentenced to?

    Shudder.

    It would be an utter hell on earth in this country if Brexit was a roaring success. I would probably emigrate.
    The only people who believe Brexit will be a success don't understand economics
    eek said:

    kinabalu said:

    Mr Meekes on excellent form, I see.

    Sadly, he doesn't seem to post any more which is a pity. I guess that like me he is just waiting for 2021 and the opportunity to grovel in apology when Brexit turns out to be a spiffing success.

    How embarrassing this is going to be for us unreconstructed Remainers. How many years in ConHome will we be sentenced to?

    Shudder.

    It would be an utter hell on earth in this country if Brexit was a roaring success. I would probably emigrate.
    The only people who believe Brexit will be a success don't understand economics
    Brexit could be an amazing success after 5-10 years. It is impossible to say.

    Short-term pain is guaranteed, however
    Thing is, if you get too much distance between cause and effect the linkage becomes a bit tenuous and convoluted.
    Historians will nail Bozo to the wall, for sure.

    The question is whether anyone will do so prior.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,739

    Ok, take it as read that I'm a zoomer nat and you're a yoon, but is there any indication that these people have an actual strategy, or as every indication suggests do they really not have a fcuking clue?

    They don't have a clue
  • isam said:

    isam said:

    Has anyone had much experience of the MMR jabs effect on their kids in the days after it being administered?

    Two kids - only effect was a few seconds of crying after the injection which they stopped with after a cuddle.

    No side effects or anything else afterwards.
    Lucky you. Maybe it is just a coincidence but my son has been red hot ever since he had it, and the hospital are saying he has inflammation in his throat too
    I hope he feels better soon.
  • Former public health officials tear into the 'moonshot' mass testing plan being piloted in Liverpool.

    "Spending the equivalent of 77% of the NHS annual revenue budget on an unevaluated underdesigned national programme leading to a regressive, insufficiently supported intervention—in many cases for the wrong people—cannot be defended."

    "Despite claims by the city council that the Innova test is “very accurate with high sensitivity and specificity,”2 it has not been evaluated in these conditions. The test’s instructions for use state that it should not be used on asymptomatic people. A preliminary evaluation from Porton Down and Oxford University9 throws little light on its performance in asymptomatic people or in the field. It suggests the test misses between one in two and one in four cases. The false positive rate of 0.6% means that at the current prevalence in Liverpool, for every person found truly positive, at least one other may be wrongly required to self-isolate. As prevalence drops, this will become much worse."

    https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4436


    "Spending the equivalent of 77% of the NHS annual revenue budget.... "

    WTF?

    Where do the Tories keep that Magic Money Tree? Has Labour noticed it has gone missing yet?
    This 100bn figure get banded around a lot. Do we actually have proper source it? Because we had the FT the other day claims 42bn being thrown at contracts for this, and when we actually looked it was more like 2bn. The rest was invites for long term tenders related to NHS testing and diagnostics for all disaeses.
    Yes. The BMJ. They were leaked a briefing memo. Has anyone in government denied the contents of the memo? I don't recall seeing anyone say so.

    https://www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m3520?ijkey=bba9e3106e45bdc9da86cc4fad74e6d3b60c8db0&keytype2=tf_ipsecsha
  • Starmer has just made a huge mistake

    Re-admitting Corbyn is beyond belief and he has bowed to the union barons

    Wrong on so many levels


    It isn't Starmer's decision, but don't let the facts get in the way of your narrative.

    Corbyn is an abomination, and I would prefer him nowhere near the Labour Party if they are to get my vote. However, you support a political organisation of which Christopher Chope is a Member of Parliament, and your party successfully nominated him for a knighthood.

    There are some nasty pieces of work in all political parties, except maybe the SNP...oh wait wasn't Alex Salmond once their leader?
    https://twitter.com/jonkennaugh/status/1328777417373126656
    When have the Corbyn bros ever stuck to the rules for any period of time. They are life long rebels.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 24,585

    Starmer has just made a huge mistake

    Re-admitting Corbyn is beyond belief and he has bowed to the union barons

    Wrong on so many levels


    It isn't Starmer's decision, but don't let the facts get in the way of your narrative.

    Corbyn is an abomination, and I would prefer him nowhere near the Labour Party if they are to get my vote. However, you support a political organisation of which Christopher Chope is a Member of Parliament, and your party successfully nominated him for a knighthood.

    There are some nasty pieces of work in all political parties, except maybe the SNP...oh wait wasn't Alex Salmond once their leader?
    https://twitter.com/jonkennaugh/status/1328777417373126656
    I hope that comes to pass.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,146

    Carnyx said:

    ...

    So why can't the Scots have what the Irish (Ni or the rest) are having? EU or SM and CU at home, and free access to England.

    If I were you I'd wait and see how that turns out for NI before getting too attached to the idea.
    I did say Irish north or southern.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,739

    This 100bn figure get banded around a lot.

    It is at least as accurate as the £350m
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Starmer has just made a huge mistake

    Re-admitting Corbyn is beyond belief and he has bowed to the union barons

    Wrong on so many levels


    It isn't Starmer's decision, but don't let the facts get in the way of your narrative.

    Corbyn is an abomination, and I would prefer him nowhere near the Labour Party if they are to get my vote. However, you support a political organisation of which Christopher Chope is a Member of Parliament, and your party successfully nominated him for a knighthood.

    There are some nasty pieces of work in all political parties, except maybe the SNP...oh wait wasn't Alex Salmond once their leader?
    https://twitter.com/jonkennaugh/status/1328777417373126656
    When have the Corbyn bros ever stuck to the rules for any period of time. They are life long rebels.
    He doesn't have a "career" or care about having one anyway (and he's done OK without one). Utterly silly analysis.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,851

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    LadyG said:

    Remember when Britain was the WORST IN EUROPE AT COVID, A GLOBAL HELLSPOT WITH LEOPARDS EATING BABIES IN COLCHESTER TESCO

    Very quietly, Britain has been over taken in deaths per million by Belgium, Spain and Italy. It will soon be over taken by the USA, Mexico and possibly even France (on present trajectories), leaving us around 15th in the world.

    The UK has done some things well and done some things badly.

    Most countries are variations of the same general pattern.
    That's not a very edgy comment.
    Disappointed :wink:

    It might not be edgy but I think its true.

    I'd also say that the performance of countries / organisations / individuals during the second wave is more judgeworthy - there was more luck involved in the first wave and people have now had time to learn and prepare.

    So here are some more not very edgy conclusions - the supermarkets have done well, the Treasury has surprised on the upside, Grant Shapps is an imbecile.
    Shapps in particular? I can't say I've noticed him breaking from the pack.
    Well he's always had a bad combination of being rubbish plus thinking he was brilliant.

    But this year he did sod all to restrict entry in March when any sensible country was putting on restrictions, allowed another lot of covid to enter in the summer by encouraging foreign holidays, got caught in Spain after quarantine restrictions were finally placed upon it and in his latest masterstroke is allowing people from countries endemic with covid to come and work in meat processing factories which have a history of covid outbreaks.
    Well I guess if we had our time again, knowing what we know now, the best global approach to Covid would have been an immediate and very tight internal lockdown in all countries plus a shutdown of international travel. Nip it in the bud.
  • isamisam Posts: 40,731
    Foxy said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Has anyone had much experience of the MMR jabs effect on their kids in the days after it being administered?

    Two kids - only effect was a few seconds of crying after the injection which they stopped with after a cuddle.

    No side effects or anything else afterwards.
    Lucky you. Maybe it is just a coincidence but my son has been red hot ever since he had it, and the hospital are saying he has inflammation in his throat too
    Fox jr was a bit mardy and grisly after it, but better 24 hours later. Such reactions are quite common with vaccinations, I still feel a little rough after a flu jab. It is a sign of immune system activation.
    That’s what I like to hear. Just got the call that he had some blood/urine tests and they came back negative, so hopefully will be let out soon.
  • The positivity rates in some places is eye watering...

    https://twitter.com/BNODesk/status/1328789665562955780?s=19
  • Former public health officials tear into the 'moonshot' mass testing plan being piloted in Liverpool.

    "Spending the equivalent of 77% of the NHS annual revenue budget on an unevaluated underdesigned national programme leading to a regressive, insufficiently supported intervention—in many cases for the wrong people—cannot be defended."

    "Despite claims by the city council that the Innova test is “very accurate with high sensitivity and specificity,”2 it has not been evaluated in these conditions. The test’s instructions for use state that it should not be used on asymptomatic people. A preliminary evaluation from Porton Down and Oxford University9 throws little light on its performance in asymptomatic people or in the field. It suggests the test misses between one in two and one in four cases. The false positive rate of 0.6% means that at the current prevalence in Liverpool, for every person found truly positive, at least one other may be wrongly required to self-isolate. As prevalence drops, this will become much worse."

    https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4436

    So what if people get required to self-isolate?

    The alternative is that currently everyone is having to self-isolate. Only having those identified as positive having to self-isolate would be a mammoth improvement.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    I was surprised to hear on the radio that Boris Johnson believed in evolution, even though he was caught saying that it had "been a disaster". I assumed he accepted the Darwinist proposition, but I wondered if he thought we were better off when we were swinging through the trees.

    Turns out I slightly mis-heard.

    --AS

    You jest, but I would say that evolution has turned into a disaster for earth, as a result of producing one species capable of buggering up the planet for everyone else.
    Perhaps, but on the plus side perhaps it produced the species capable of leaving the planet, to find countless others to bugger up...

    --AS
    We really aren't capable of any such thing. So far we have boldly gone 1.3 light seconds, or 20 light hours if you count unmanned, into a universe where the nearest exoplanet is 4000 ly away. They are safe, we'll have warmed ourselves to death before we get to do any real harm.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,165

    The positivity rates in some places is eye watering...

    https://twitter.com/BNODesk/status/1328789665562955780?s=19

    It might be hard to assess the effectiveness of the vaccine at this rate; herd immunity might have been achieved by the time it gets deployed.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,620

    Former public health officials tear into the 'moonshot' mass testing plan being piloted in Liverpool.

    "Spending the equivalent of 77% of the NHS annual revenue budget on an unevaluated underdesigned national programme leading to a regressive, insufficiently supported intervention—in many cases for the wrong people—cannot be defended."

    "Despite claims by the city council that the Innova test is “very accurate with high sensitivity and specificity,”2 it has not been evaluated in these conditions. The test’s instructions for use state that it should not be used on asymptomatic people. A preliminary evaluation from Porton Down and Oxford University9 throws little light on its performance in asymptomatic people or in the field. It suggests the test misses between one in two and one in four cases. The false positive rate of 0.6% means that at the current prevalence in Liverpool, for every person found truly positive, at least one other may be wrongly required to self-isolate. As prevalence drops, this will become much worse."

    https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4436


    "Spending the equivalent of 77% of the NHS annual revenue budget.... "

    WTF?

    Where do the Tories keep that Magic Money Tree? Has Labour noticed it has gone missing yet?
    This 100bn figure get banded around a lot. Do we actually have proper source it? Because we had the FT the other day claims 42bn being thrown at contracts for this, and when we actually looked it was more like 2bn. The rest was invites for long term tenders related to NHS testing and diagnostics for all disaeses.
    Yes. The BMJ. They were leaked a briefing memo. Has anyone in government denied the contents of the memo? I don't recall seeing anyone say so.

    https://www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m3520?ijkey=bba9e3106e45bdc9da86cc4fad74e6d3b60c8db0&keytype2=tf_ipsecsha
    This is starting to remind me of NASA and Bush I - after the Gulf War and the end of the Cold War, tax revenue was good etc. So he asked NASA to come up with some plans for the future, given that the Space Station was nearing completion.

    He wanted some options.

    NASA (due to internal politics) *didn't* want to do this. So they invented a 500Bn price tag by essentially sticking together everything they could think of and a 20 year operating budget for all of it.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 24,585

    Starmer has just made a huge mistake

    Re-admitting Corbyn is beyond belief and he has bowed to the union barons

    Wrong on so many levels


    It isn't Starmer's decision, but don't let the facts get in the way of your narrative.

    Corbyn is an abomination, and I would prefer him nowhere near the Labour Party if they are to get my vote. However, you support a political organisation of which Christopher Chope is a Member of Parliament, and your party successfully nominated him for a knighthood.

    There are some nasty pieces of work in all political parties, except maybe the SNP...oh wait wasn't Alex Salmond once their leader?
    https://twitter.com/jonkennaugh/status/1328777417373126656
    When have the Corbyn bros ever stuck to the rules for any period of time. They are life long rebels.
    Rebels? The word I have in mind begins with a "w".
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,851
    IanB2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    LadyG said:

    eek said:

    kinabalu said:

    Mr Meekes on excellent form, I see.

    Sadly, he doesn't seem to post any more which is a pity. I guess that like me he is just waiting for 2021 and the opportunity to grovel in apology when Brexit turns out to be a spiffing success.

    How embarrassing this is going to be for us unreconstructed Remainers. How many years in ConHome will we be sentenced to?

    Shudder.

    It would be an utter hell on earth in this country if Brexit was a roaring success. I would probably emigrate.
    The only people who believe Brexit will be a success don't understand economics
    eek said:

    kinabalu said:

    Mr Meekes on excellent form, I see.

    Sadly, he doesn't seem to post any more which is a pity. I guess that like me he is just waiting for 2021 and the opportunity to grovel in apology when Brexit turns out to be a spiffing success.

    How embarrassing this is going to be for us unreconstructed Remainers. How many years in ConHome will we be sentenced to?

    Shudder.

    It would be an utter hell on earth in this country if Brexit was a roaring success. I would probably emigrate.
    The only people who believe Brexit will be a success don't understand economics
    Brexit could be an amazing success after 5-10 years. It is impossible to say.

    Short-term pain is guaranteed, however
    Thing is, if you get too much distance between cause and effect the linkage becomes a bit tenuous and convoluted.
    Historians will nail Bozo to the wall, for sure.

    The question is whether anyone will do so prior.
    That is the big question. My current feeling is that his luck will run out. Can't say I'm super confident though. It's a powerful brand he has, this "Boris".
  • eekeek Posts: 24,797

    Scott_xP said:
    Ok, take it as read that I'm a zoomer nat and you're a yoon, but is there anything that these people have done that implies that they have an actual strategy, or as every indication suggests do they really not have a fcuking clue?
    Well the only strategy we've seen in the past 9 months was Cummings keeping his job and ge's gone.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392

    Starmer has just made a huge mistake

    Re-admitting Corbyn is beyond belief and he has bowed to the union barons

    Wrong on so many levels


    It isn't Starmer's decision, but don't let the facts get in the way of your narrative.

    Corbyn is an abomination, and I would prefer him nowhere near the Labour Party if they are to get my vote. However, you support a political organisation of which Christopher Chope is a Member of Parliament, and your party successfully nominated him for a knighthood.

    There are some nasty pieces of work in all political parties, except maybe the SNP...oh wait wasn't Alex Salmond once their leader?
    https://twitter.com/jonkennaugh/status/1328777417373126656
    Seems sound. Starmer responded in the way he is able under the rules, and Corbyn can be a crank but not one who defies the leader so boldly.
  • Starmer has just made a huge mistake

    Re-admitting Corbyn is beyond belief and he has bowed to the union barons

    Wrong on so many levels


    It isn't Starmer's decision, but don't let the facts get in the way of your narrative.

    Corbyn is an abomination, and I would prefer him nowhere near the Labour Party if they are to get my vote. However, you support a political organisation of which Christopher Chope is a Member of Parliament, and your party successfully nominated him for a knighthood.

    There are some nasty pieces of work in all political parties, except maybe the SNP...oh wait wasn't Alex Salmond once their leader?
    https://twitter.com/jonkennaugh/status/1328777417373126656
    When have the Corbyn bros ever stuck to the rules for any period of time. They are life long rebels.
    Rebels? The word I have in mind begins with a "w".
    I blame 3G, 4G, 5G....
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,398
    Scott_xP said:

    This 100bn figure get banded around a lot.

    It is at least as accurate as the £350m
    "We send £350m to the EU each week.
    Let's spend it on Covid tests for Scousers instead."
  • IshmaelZ said:

    I was surprised to hear on the radio that Boris Johnson believed in evolution, even though he was caught saying that it had "been a disaster". I assumed he accepted the Darwinist proposition, but I wondered if he thought we were better off when we were swinging through the trees.

    Turns out I slightly mis-heard.

    --AS

    You jest, but I would say that evolution has turned into a disaster for earth, as a result of producing one species capable of buggering up the planet for everyone else.
    Perhaps, but on the plus side perhaps it produced the species capable of leaving the planet, to find countless others to bugger up...

    --AS
    We really aren't capable of any such thing. So far we have boldly gone 1.3 light seconds, or 20 light hours if you count unmanned, into a universe where the nearest exoplanet is 4000 ly away. They are safe, we'll have warmed ourselves to death before we get to do any real harm.
    Oh, I have faith in humanity's ability to find new worlds to screw up. It's just a matter of time. Unless the aliens put a stop to us first, of course.

    --AS
  • stodgestodge Posts: 12,742
    A final observation from me this evening:

    Those who bought the DJIA at 18214 in the spring must be celebrating as 30000 heaves into view. All because of a couple of vaccines, who'd have thunk it?

    As an aside, it seems negative interest rates are off the table but are we still to see the Bank of England and others continuing to prop up the stock market with QE for the foreseeable? As economic activity (supposedly) rebounds in 2021, isn't it time we started looking to return to a normal monetary policy?

    It's been a wretched decade or more for savers.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,068
    edited November 2020
    You seem to get a decent amount at that handout at least.

    Today in Leicester we passed the number of covid patients that we had in the first peak. Deaths are a bit lower, and much more sense of being in control of events. We have moved to covid alert stage 4 (of 5, presumably 5 is total meltdown!) so loads of routine stuff will go by the board.

    All getting a bit scary. A conversation with one of our receptionists today. Her parents are sick with it, and the whole extended household too, though not all have tested positive. They have refused to see anyone as don't want to spread it further, and locked their door. We gloomily shared some Diwali leftovers. Even a vaccine with limited safety data is better than this hell.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,739
    https://twitter.com/MattGarrahan/status/1328810806981644290

    I am wondering though, like Trump who is left Tweeting out conspiracy theories nobody is listening to, does anyone still care what BoZo says?

    If he hasn't already contradicted it, something else will arise to blow it off course...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392

    Starmer has just made a huge mistake

    Re-admitting Corbyn is beyond belief and he has bowed to the union barons

    Wrong on so many levels


    It isn't Starmer's decision, but don't let the facts get in the way of your narrative.

    Corbyn is an abomination, and I would prefer him nowhere near the Labour Party if they are to get my vote. However, you support a political organisation of which Christopher Chope is a Member of Parliament, and your party successfully nominated him for a knighthood.

    There are some nasty pieces of work in all political parties, except maybe the SNP...oh wait wasn't Alex Salmond once their leader?
    https://twitter.com/jonkennaugh/status/1328777417373126656
    When have the Corbyn bros ever stuck to the rules for any period of time. They are life long rebels.
    Sure, Corbyn won't hesitate to rebel on votes for things. Always has, always will. But I think he and the gang had hopes of being influential grandees following his time as Leader, which might have given him more latitude if Starmer was unwilling to chastise him too strongly for fear of Corbyn's base. As it is, Corbyn knows he cannot mess about, so his rebellion will be lukewarm and more anonymous.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,723
    Aronchick on the Trump campaign's complaint:

    "There are no specifics. There are no numbers in here."
  • The positivity rates in some places is eye watering...

    https://twitter.com/BNODesk/status/1328789665562955780?s=19

    Take a look at this one from last week:

    https://twitter.com/BNODesk/status/1325868194872045568

    The Bernard Matthews recruitment zone.
  • gealbhangealbhan Posts: 2,362
    edited November 2020

    Former public health officials tear into the 'moonshot' mass testing plan being piloted in Liverpool.

    "Spending the equivalent of 77% of the NHS annual revenue budget on an unevaluated underdesigned national programme leading to a regressive, insufficiently supported intervention—in many cases for the wrong people—cannot be defended."

    "Despite claims by the city council that the Innova test is “very accurate with high sensitivity and specificity,”2 it has not been evaluated in these conditions. The test’s instructions for use state that it should not be used on asymptomatic people. A preliminary evaluation from Porton Down and Oxford University9 throws little light on its performance in asymptomatic people or in the field. It suggests the test misses between one in two and one in four cases. The false positive rate of 0.6% means that at the current prevalence in Liverpool, for every person found truly positive, at least one other may be wrongly required to self-isolate. As prevalence drops, this will become much worse."

    https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4436

    So what if people get required to self-isolate?

    The alternative is that currently everyone is having to self-isolate. Only having those identified as positive having to self-isolate would be a mammoth improvement.
    You are right. This is really the only way forward. It’s south korenesque.

    Low numbers actually tested though. Waiting for people to come to it rather than taking it to the people might fail to make the moon let alone ride the buggy?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lERB9BPzC4
  • kle4 said:

    Starmer has just made a huge mistake

    Re-admitting Corbyn is beyond belief and he has bowed to the union barons

    Wrong on so many levels


    It isn't Starmer's decision, but don't let the facts get in the way of your narrative.

    Corbyn is an abomination, and I would prefer him nowhere near the Labour Party if they are to get my vote. However, you support a political organisation of which Christopher Chope is a Member of Parliament, and your party successfully nominated him for a knighthood.

    There are some nasty pieces of work in all political parties, except maybe the SNP...oh wait wasn't Alex Salmond once their leader?
    https://twitter.com/jonkennaugh/status/1328777417373126656
    Seems sound. Starmer responded in the way he is able under the rules, and Corbyn can be a crank but not one who defies the leader so boldly.
    He is yet to have the whip restored unless I have missed that announcement.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,281
    Foxy said:

    You seem to get a decent amount at that handout at least.

    Today in Leicester we passed the number of covid patients that we had in the first peak. Deaths are a bit lower, and much more sense of being in control of events. We have moved to covid alert stage 4 (of 5, presumably 5 is total meltdown!) so loads of routine stuff will go by the board.

    All getting a bit scary. A conversation with one of our receptionists today. Her parents are sick with it, and the whole extended household too, though not all have tested positive. They have refused to see anyone as don't want to spread it further, and locked their door. We gloomily shared some Diwali leftovers. Even a vaccine with limited safety data is better than this hell.
    Appreciate the updates @Foxy. Really sorry to hear that things are so grim. Full of admiration for you and your colleagues.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,851
    IshmaelZ said:

    I was surprised to hear on the radio that Boris Johnson believed in evolution, even though he was caught saying that it had "been a disaster". I assumed he accepted the Darwinist proposition, but I wondered if he thought we were better off when we were swinging through the trees.

    Turns out I slightly mis-heard.

    --AS

    You jest, but I would say that evolution has turned into a disaster for earth, as a result of producing one species capable of buggering up the planet for everyone else.
    Perhaps, but on the plus side perhaps it produced the species capable of leaving the planet, to find countless others to bugger up...

    --AS
    We really aren't capable of any such thing. So far we have boldly gone 1.3 light seconds, or 20 light hours if you count unmanned, into a universe where the nearest exoplanet is 4000 ly away. They are safe, we'll have warmed ourselves to death before we get to do any real harm.
    No faith in Musk?
  • Former public health officials tear into the 'moonshot' mass testing plan being piloted in Liverpool.

    "Spending the equivalent of 77% of the NHS annual revenue budget on an unevaluated underdesigned national programme leading to a regressive, insufficiently supported intervention—in many cases for the wrong people—cannot be defended."

    "Despite claims by the city council that the Innova test is “very accurate with high sensitivity and specificity,”2 it has not been evaluated in these conditions. The test’s instructions for use state that it should not be used on asymptomatic people. A preliminary evaluation from Porton Down and Oxford University9 throws little light on its performance in asymptomatic people or in the field. It suggests the test misses between one in two and one in four cases. The false positive rate of 0.6% means that at the current prevalence in Liverpool, for every person found truly positive, at least one other may be wrongly required to self-isolate. As prevalence drops, this will become much worse."

    https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4436

    Dom's remaining baby, isn't it?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,771

    DavidL said:

    Pagan2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    In spite of alluding to the diversity of views in his paragraph on Brexit supporting young gay cyclists, as usual Alastair ruins his thread header by lumping all Leavers in together as if they all had the same views on matters both Brexit and non-Brexit related.

    There are plenty of Leavers, including a few on here, who are very happy with the idea of Scottish Independence and for thoroughly positive reasons. For us Scottish Independence is a natural and welcome consequence of Brexit and stems from the same arguments in favour of self determination as drove the desire to leave the EU. We are not Unionists - either of the EU or British variety and therefore see any move towards dissolution of the Union as a positive step.

    Sure. There are Leavers who welcome the breakup of the UK. There's you. There's Philip Thompson. I bet there are others. But the drivers of the Brexit project in the Tory Party and this Tory government - Johnson, Gove, the ERG - are not of that mind. So if it is the case that Brexit drives Scotland out, this will be an example of irony of the bitter variety. I don't think your observation - whilst true - changes that one iota.
    Neither am I. There are Leavers like me and DavidL who are passionate Unionists, and I bet there are others on this site too.
    Perhaps you would care to have a stab at my question. What actual practical reasons are there for union? Ones that a man from dumfries and a man from uxbridge would nod their heads and go "The man has a point"
    Great Britain is a natural geographical entity. It is a deeply integrated single market with complete freedom of movement, capital and electoral rights. That integration gives all parts of the Union more strength than they would have on their own and more opportunities for their citizens. We share a common history and a series of national institutions. We make more of a difference in the world than we would separately and largely for the good. This is a great nation and I am proud to be a part of it.

    How am I doing?
    Only a couple of million people to persuade, or rather c.200k to get you back to 50% +1.
    Piece of cake.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 24,585

    Starmer has just made a huge mistake

    Re-admitting Corbyn is beyond belief and he has bowed to the union barons

    Wrong on so many levels


    It isn't Starmer's decision, but don't let the facts get in the way of your narrative.

    Corbyn is an abomination, and I would prefer him nowhere near the Labour Party if they are to get my vote. However, you support a political organisation of which Christopher Chope is a Member of Parliament, and your party successfully nominated him for a knighthood.

    There are some nasty pieces of work in all political parties, except maybe the SNP...oh wait wasn't Alex Salmond once their leader?
    https://twitter.com/jonkennaugh/status/1328777417373126656
    When have the Corbyn bros ever stuck to the rules for any period of time. They are life long rebels.
    Rebels? The word I have in mind begins with a "w".
    I blame 3G, 4G, 5G....
    Hard to believe, as it is, but Jeremy is not the world's most unpleasant crank called Corbyn.

    When Piers refuses his Covid-19 vaccine, everyone in the lower priority tiers gets bumped up the queue by one, so what's not to like?
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    The GOP controlled legislatures various states seem to be on a suicide mission over covid. Wisconsin and Michigan are just mind boggling.
  • Starmer has just made a huge mistake

    Re-admitting Corbyn is beyond belief and he has bowed to the union barons

    Wrong on so many levels


    It isn't Starmer's decision, but don't let the facts get in the way of your narrative.

    Corbyn is an abomination, and I would prefer him nowhere near the Labour Party if they are to get my vote. However, you support a political organisation of which Christopher Chope is a Member of Parliament, and your party successfully nominated him for a knighthood.

    There are some nasty pieces of work in all political parties, except maybe the SNP...oh wait wasn't Alex Salmond once their leader?
    https://twitter.com/jonkennaugh/status/1328777417373126656
    When have the Corbyn bros ever stuck to the rules for any period of time. They are life long rebels.
    Rebels? The word I have in mind begins with a "w".
    I blame 3G, 4G, 5G....
    Hard to believe, as it is, but Jeremy is not the world's most unpleasant crank called Corbyn.

    When Piers refuses his Covid-19 vaccine, everyone in the lower priority tiers gets bumped up the queue by one, so what's not to like?
    I bet he makes some huge scene, turns up for his appointment and starts screaming about Bill Gates, the Illuminati, ...
  • isamisam Posts: 40,731
    The Black Stuff 10pm
    BBC4
  • gealbhangealbhan Posts: 2,362
    Scott_xP said:

    https://twitter.com/MattGarrahan/status/1328810806981644290

    I am wondering though, like Trump who is left Tweeting out conspiracy theories nobody is listening to, does anyone still care what BoZo says?

    If he hasn't already contradicted it, something else will arise to blow it off course...

    Princess Nut Nuts has written a fine piece for him to sign up to there. I know you and others will be cynical, but if he steers us down this road it’s good.
  • Former public health officials tear into the 'moonshot' mass testing plan being piloted in Liverpool.

    "Spending the equivalent of 77% of the NHS annual revenue budget on an unevaluated underdesigned national programme leading to a regressive, insufficiently supported intervention—in many cases for the wrong people—cannot be defended."

    "Despite claims by the city council that the Innova test is “very accurate with high sensitivity and specificity,”2 it has not been evaluated in these conditions. The test’s instructions for use state that it should not be used on asymptomatic people. A preliminary evaluation from Porton Down and Oxford University9 throws little light on its performance in asymptomatic people or in the field. It suggests the test misses between one in two and one in four cases. The false positive rate of 0.6% means that at the current prevalence in Liverpool, for every person found truly positive, at least one other may be wrongly required to self-isolate. As prevalence drops, this will become much worse."

    https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4436

    Dom's remaining baby, isn't it?
    He's still working on it apparently, from home.

    Although whether he has much time in between penning fifty thousand word blog essays on what a disaster Johnson has turned out to be we don't know.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    kinabalu said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    I was surprised to hear on the radio that Boris Johnson believed in evolution, even though he was caught saying that it had "been a disaster". I assumed he accepted the Darwinist proposition, but I wondered if he thought we were better off when we were swinging through the trees.

    Turns out I slightly mis-heard.

    --AS

    You jest, but I would say that evolution has turned into a disaster for earth, as a result of producing one species capable of buggering up the planet for everyone else.
    Perhaps, but on the plus side perhaps it produced the species capable of leaving the planet, to find countless others to bugger up...

    --AS
    We really aren't capable of any such thing. So far we have boldly gone 1.3 light seconds, or 20 light hours if you count unmanned, into a universe where the nearest exoplanet is 4000 ly away. They are safe, we'll have warmed ourselves to death before we get to do any real harm.
    No faith in Musk?
    Nope. We might just about land a few bods on Mars in his lifetime (probability say 15%), but colonies - nah.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,851
    edited November 2020
    stodge said:

    A final observation from me this evening:

    Those who bought the DJIA at 18214 in the spring must be celebrating as 30000 heaves into view. All because of a couple of vaccines, who'd have thunk it?

    As an aside, it seems negative interest rates are off the table but are we still to see the Bank of England and others continuing to prop up the stock market with QE for the foreseeable? As economic activity (supposedly) rebounds in 2021, isn't it time we started looking to return to a normal monetary policy?

    It's been a wretched decade or more for savers.

    We seem to be utterly hooked on cheap money and QE now. It's hard to even visualize a route out of it. What to do with an addict if the detox would kill them? I don't know.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 10,343

    Starmer has just made a huge mistake

    Re-admitting Corbyn is beyond belief and he has bowed to the union barons

    Wrong on so many levels


    It isn't Starmer's decision, but don't let the facts get in the way of your narrative.

    Corbyn is an abomination, and I would prefer him nowhere near the Labour Party if they are to get my vote. However, you support a political organisation of which Christopher Chope is a Member of Parliament, and your party successfully nominated him for a knighthood.

    There are some nasty pieces of work in all political parties, except maybe the SNP...oh wait wasn't Alex Salmond once their leader?
    Chope taking tea with holocaust deniers? Lots of people don't like his attitude or his tactics. What, however are his beliefs and policies that place him beyond the pale like anti semitism does for so many on the left?

  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,068
    isam said:

    The Black Stuff 10pm
    BBC4

    The original Play for Today from the late Sevdnties? It would be great to see again the series that came later too.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,771
    I was incredulous when @LadyG said that Washington (?) University were forecasting more deaths in Germany than anywhere else in Europe but their deaths figure is rising really fast.
  • gealbhan said:

    Scott_xP said:

    https://twitter.com/MattGarrahan/status/1328810806981644290

    I am wondering though, like Trump who is left Tweeting out conspiracy theories nobody is listening to, does anyone still care what BoZo says?

    If he hasn't already contradicted it, something else will arise to blow it off course...

    Princess Nut Nuts has written a fine piece for him to sign up to there. I know you and others will be cynical, but if he steers us down this road it’s good.
    Its a good piece and a good plan.

    I like the combination of wind with hydro, it seems the best plan for the UK. I know many here will object to the absence of tidal from the plan but wind does work and is cheap and quick to work - if we can create hydrogen as a backup for when wind pressure isn't there then even better.
  • isam said:

    The Black Stuff 10pm
    BBC4

    Brilliantly funny.

    Odd how the Yosser actor is now famous for playing a captain and a king.
  • PuckPuck Posts: 7
    edited November 2020
    Agreeing a pardon for Trump in return for his resigning or declaring himself "temporarily" incapable might be preferable to the alternative. It's not a pleasant thought that he might avoid getting his comeuppance, and yes he is holding the country to ransom, but sometimes paying a ransom can save a fair few innocent lives. Leave the nutter in office and the consequence might be more than lawsuits and marches of a "million" MAGA-hatted morons. As for the state level, a pardon (or legal settlement) might be what he's after with his "won't give you lot the vaccine (pouts)" move against the state of New York.

    Elective executive presidencies, as used in three of the five UNSC veto powers, do seem to have some of the same weaknesses as monarchies...
  • gealbhan said:

    Scott_xP said:

    https://twitter.com/MattGarrahan/status/1328810806981644290

    I am wondering though, like Trump who is left Tweeting out conspiracy theories nobody is listening to, does anyone still care what BoZo says?

    If he hasn't already contradicted it, something else will arise to blow it off course...

    Princess Nut Nuts has written a fine piece for him to sign up to there. I know you and others will be cynical, but if he steers us down this road it’s good.
    Who is Princess Nut Nuts ?

    Is this some PB meme I have missed out on ?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,851
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Pagan2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    In spite of alluding to the diversity of views in his paragraph on Brexit supporting young gay cyclists, as usual Alastair ruins his thread header by lumping all Leavers in together as if they all had the same views on matters both Brexit and non-Brexit related.

    There are plenty of Leavers, including a few on here, who are very happy with the idea of Scottish Independence and for thoroughly positive reasons. For us Scottish Independence is a natural and welcome consequence of Brexit and stems from the same arguments in favour of self determination as drove the desire to leave the EU. We are not Unionists - either of the EU or British variety and therefore see any move towards dissolution of the Union as a positive step.

    Sure. There are Leavers who welcome the breakup of the UK. There's you. There's Philip Thompson. I bet there are others. But the drivers of the Brexit project in the Tory Party and this Tory government - Johnson, Gove, the ERG - are not of that mind. So if it is the case that Brexit drives Scotland out, this will be an example of irony of the bitter variety. I don't think your observation - whilst true - changes that one iota.
    Neither am I. There are Leavers like me and DavidL who are passionate Unionists, and I bet there are others on this site too.
    Perhaps you would care to have a stab at my question. What actual practical reasons are there for union? Ones that a man from dumfries and a man from uxbridge would nod their heads and go "The man has a point"
    Great Britain is a natural geographical entity. It is a deeply integrated single market with complete freedom of movement, capital and electoral rights. That integration gives all parts of the Union more strength than they would have on their own and more opportunities for their citizens. We share a common history and a series of national institutions. We make more of a difference in the world than we would separately and largely for the good. This is a great nation and I am proud to be a part of it.

    How am I doing?
    Only a couple of million people to persuade, or rather c.200k to get you back to 50% +1.
    Piece of cake.
    Like I was saying to TUD, you've probably got a +1 with my sister. Just retired from Oxford to D&G in Scotland. She's a Lib Demmy type.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 4,784

    Former public health officials tear into the 'moonshot' mass testing plan being piloted in Liverpool.

    "Spending the equivalent of 77% of the NHS annual revenue budget on an unevaluated underdesigned national programme leading to a regressive, insufficiently supported intervention—in many cases for the wrong people—cannot be defended."

    "Despite claims by the city council that the Innova test is “very accurate with high sensitivity and specificity,”2 it has not been evaluated in these conditions. The test’s instructions for use state that it should not be used on asymptomatic people. A preliminary evaluation from Porton Down and Oxford University9 throws little light on its performance in asymptomatic people or in the field. It suggests the test misses between one in two and one in four cases. The false positive rate of 0.6% means that at the current prevalence in Liverpool, for every person found truly positive, at least one other may be wrongly required to self-isolate. As prevalence drops, this will become much worse."

    https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4436

    Dom's remaining baby, isn't it?
    I see the R rate for Merseyside is back up from 0.8 to 0.97. I don't know whether it's all down to additional mass testing (rises do seem to be concentrated close to the city) or whether the most efficient mode of Corona transmission is asserting dominance (for a locale modes would be schools, hospitals, households, care homes etc.), or a bit of both.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,068

    gealbhan said:

    Scott_xP said:

    https://twitter.com/MattGarrahan/status/1328810806981644290

    I am wondering though, like Trump who is left Tweeting out conspiracy theories nobody is listening to, does anyone still care what BoZo says?

    If he hasn't already contradicted it, something else will arise to blow it off course...

    Princess Nut Nuts has written a fine piece for him to sign up to there. I know you and others will be cynical, but if he steers us down this road it’s good.
    Who is Princess Nut Nuts ?

    Is this some PB meme I have missed out on ?
    The nickname Cummings used about Carrie Symonds in an email, enough to get him sacked, apparently.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Huge news @TheScreamingEagles

    The last postal broke heavily for Yes in Alaska. AV has passed.

    https://twitter.com/PoliticsWolf/status/1328771327591804930?s=19
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,771
    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Pagan2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    In spite of alluding to the diversity of views in his paragraph on Brexit supporting young gay cyclists, as usual Alastair ruins his thread header by lumping all Leavers in together as if they all had the same views on matters both Brexit and non-Brexit related.

    There are plenty of Leavers, including a few on here, who are very happy with the idea of Scottish Independence and for thoroughly positive reasons. For us Scottish Independence is a natural and welcome consequence of Brexit and stems from the same arguments in favour of self determination as drove the desire to leave the EU. We are not Unionists - either of the EU or British variety and therefore see any move towards dissolution of the Union as a positive step.

    Sure. There are Leavers who welcome the breakup of the UK. There's you. There's Philip Thompson. I bet there are others. But the drivers of the Brexit project in the Tory Party and this Tory government - Johnson, Gove, the ERG - are not of that mind. So if it is the case that Brexit drives Scotland out, this will be an example of irony of the bitter variety. I don't think your observation - whilst true - changes that one iota.
    Neither am I. There are Leavers like me and DavidL who are passionate Unionists, and I bet there are others on this site too.
    Perhaps you would care to have a stab at my question. What actual practical reasons are there for union? Ones that a man from dumfries and a man from uxbridge would nod their heads and go "The man has a point"
    Great Britain is a natural geographical entity. It is a deeply integrated single market with complete freedom of movement, capital and electoral rights. That integration gives all parts of the Union more strength than they would have on their own and more opportunities for their citizens. We share a common history and a series of national institutions. We make more of a difference in the world than we would separately and largely for the good. This is a great nation and I am proud to be a part of it.

    How am I doing?
    Only a couple of million people to persuade, or rather c.200k to get you back to 50% +1.
    Piece of cake.
    Like I was saying to TUD, you've probably got a +1 with my sister. Just retired from Oxford to D&G in Scotland. She's a Lib Demmy type.
    Many a mickle mak’s a muckle as we say around here.
  • Maybe he looked at the results for the House and drew some obvious conclusions.
  • isamisam Posts: 40,731
    Foxy said:

    isam said:

    The Black Stuff 10pm
    BBC4

    The original Play for Today from the late Sevdnties? It would be great to see again the series that came later too.
    Yes a repeat of the original - I’ve not seen it

    They’ve been showing a few of the old PFT’s recently (Abigails Party, Leeds United) as well as a documentary about the show. I’ve taped them but not watched yet
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    https://twitter.com/JustinGrayWSB/status/1328808336985296896?s=19

    Oops. Just left some votes on a memory card lads.
  • Foxy said:

    gealbhan said:

    Scott_xP said:

    https://twitter.com/MattGarrahan/status/1328810806981644290

    I am wondering though, like Trump who is left Tweeting out conspiracy theories nobody is listening to, does anyone still care what BoZo says?

    If he hasn't already contradicted it, something else will arise to blow it off course...

    Princess Nut Nuts has written a fine piece for him to sign up to there. I know you and others will be cynical, but if he steers us down this road it’s good.
    Who is Princess Nut Nuts ?

    Is this some PB meme I have missed out on ?
    The nickname Cummings used about Carrie Symonds in an email, enough to get him sacked, apparently.
    Who would have guessed that insulting your bosses fiancée in writing is bad for your career prospects?

    👸🏻🥜🥜 1 - 0 🍆🏯👓
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,068
    isam said:

    Foxy said:

    isam said:

    The Black Stuff 10pm
    BBC4

    The original Play for Today from the late Sevdnties? It would be great to see again the series that came later too.
    Yes a repeat of the original - I’ve not seen it

    They’ve been showing a few of the old PFT’s recently (Abigails Party, Leeds United) as well as a documentary about the show. I’ve taped them but not watched yet
    Abigails Party is still brilliant. The Black Stuff is quite a lot lighter than The Boys From The Blackstone as I remember.

  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,281
    Foxy said:

    gealbhan said:

    Scott_xP said:

    https://twitter.com/MattGarrahan/status/1328810806981644290

    I am wondering though, like Trump who is left Tweeting out conspiracy theories nobody is listening to, does anyone still care what BoZo says?

    If he hasn't already contradicted it, something else will arise to blow it off course...

    Princess Nut Nuts has written a fine piece for him to sign up to there. I know you and others will be cynical, but if he steers us down this road it’s good.
    Who is Princess Nut Nuts ?

    Is this some PB meme I have missed out on ?
    The nickname Cummings used about Carrie Symonds in an email, enough to get him sacked, apparently.
    ...apparently shorthand for crazy, squirrel-face.

    The idea of two such lookers as Cummings and Cain passing judgement on Symonds' appearance reminds me of a French and Saunders sketch.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 24,585
    algarkirk said:

    Starmer has just made a huge mistake

    Re-admitting Corbyn is beyond belief and he has bowed to the union barons

    Wrong on so many levels


    It isn't Starmer's decision, but don't let the facts get in the way of your narrative.

    Corbyn is an abomination, and I would prefer him nowhere near the Labour Party if they are to get my vote. However, you support a political organisation of which Christopher Chope is a Member of Parliament, and your party successfully nominated him for a knighthood.

    There are some nasty pieces of work in all political parties, except maybe the SNP...oh wait wasn't Alex Salmond once their leader?
    Chope taking tea with holocaust deniers? Lots of people don't like his attitude or his tactics. What, however are his beliefs and policies that place him beyond the pale like anti semitism does for so many on the left?

    Fillibustering private member's bills on upskirting for starters, but I would trump that with among other things, fillibustering the FGM bill.

    His chum Philip Davies is also a piece of work.

    Please don't think I am defending Corbyn.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Or, errrr, he doesn't want two Senate seats to go up for election. Literally no one was expecting then in his cabinet.
  • Incredibly, the amounts available on the Betfair next President market have been fluctuating between £2m and £3m at 1.05 and 1.06.

    These are not ordinary punters, folks.
  • PuckPuck Posts: 7
    Foxy said:

    gealbhan said:

    Scott_xP said:

    https://twitter.com/MattGarrahan/status/1328810806981644290

    I am wondering though, like Trump who is left Tweeting out conspiracy theories nobody is listening to, does anyone still care what BoZo says?

    If he hasn't already contradicted it, something else will arise to blow it off course...

    Princess Nut Nuts has written a fine piece for him to sign up to there. I know you and others will be cynical, but if he steers us down this road it’s good.
    Who is Princess Nut Nuts ?

    Is this some PB meme I have missed out on ?
    The nickname Cummings used about Carrie Symonds in an email, enough to get him sacked, apparently.
    I remain sceptical about that, until somebody can find another instance of his engaging in stupid abuse based on a person's appearance.

    He got right up the defence industry's tits according to the Telegraph.
  • Incredibly, the amounts available on the Betfair next President market have been fluctuating between £2m and £3m at 1.05 and 1.06.

    These are not ordinary punters, folks.

    Fascinating. Who is behind this trading? We may never know.
This discussion has been closed.