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Increased geography. Devolution, independence, and Brexit – politicalbetting.com

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  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300

    19 days....not even pretendy punishment where you get sidelined for a few months but to all intents and purposes you are still same old same old.

    What happens to the suspensions doled out to CLP officers who backed the old fool?
  • tlg86 said:

    Alastair writes as though the question of Scottish independence has only just appeared post-2016. It hasn't. I was thoroughly appalled at our politicians falling over themselves to keep Scotland in the UK in 2014. It's their decision, if they want to go their own way, let them.

    Very well said!
  • This is an extremely poor decision by Labour.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    FTP: Posting again for the evening crowd

    (1/2)
    The rise of Scottish nationalism was perhaps inevitable with the fall of Empire.

    Empire provided a raison d’etre for the ruling, trading, and fighting classes in both England and Scotland.

    Winnie Ewing’s win in Hamilton (1967) and Britain’s retrenchment from “East of Suez” (1968) are of course not directly related, but can both be seen as part of the same entropic decline.

    As Empire dissolved, a Labour-led “British” nationalism (delivering monolithic public initiatives like the bomb, the National Coal Boars, and British Leyland), presumably enjoyed the support of Scots, but did not itself survive the onslaught of the oil crisis, monetarism and Margaret Thatcher.

    Since the 80s, then, the “Union” has not fully made sense to the Scots. Privatisation and poll tax did not feel like a national project worth believing in, let alone a partnership of equals.

    If we (who?) want Scotland to stay, the Union has to make sense as a larger project worth investing in. The benefits need to be clear. And the sense of respect owed to Scotland and the Scots needs to be felt.

    Needless to say, Brexit is the precise opposite of any of this...
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Has anyone had much experience of the MMR jabs effect on their kids in the days after it being administered?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,883
    It's whom he is targeting that is ther quesiton, if he wasn't just spaffing up his words against the wall. Is he trying to make the Jocks the scapegoat? Can't see how he c ould blame them for the ills of Brexit.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    London "lockdown" observation. No one cares. In the first lockdown there was barely anyone out and no cars on the roads and the buses were empty. I have seen no appreciable difference between today and before the it was introduced. I don't think cases are going to fall very fast or at all.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    (2/2)
    So what would I do to arrest independence?

    First: Push a third option: devolution of 50% of taxes (ie pretty much everything apart from income tax and national insurance), ability to borrow etc. Not quite full-fiscal autonomy, but close.

    Second: set up conditions towards a grown-up electoral choice. Not simple majoritarianism. Learn the lessons of Brexit: any vote should be multi-choice, or multi-round, with a threshold required for change.

    Third: fund pro-Union civil groups.

    Fourth: Relocate, or create new, Union-wide institutions eg U.K. Govt departments; Scottish outpost and seat on Bank of *Britain*; Artic Co-operation Council; etc.

    Fifth: Ensure the complexities of economic and political separation are confidently vocalised. The lesson of Brexit is that "Project Fear" is to some extent "Project Reality". The costs and traumas of independence will be profound.

    Sixth: Ensure proper focus on national press on SNP’s underperformance in key areas.

    Don’t really see the “Minister for the Union” doing or thinking about any of this stuff.
  • johntjohnt Posts: 166
    Pagan2 said:

    malcolmg said:

    algarkirk said:

    Pagan2 said:

    johnt said:

    Exceedingly well put Alastair. The UK is being driven apart by the hard line minority and it will result in the end of the union and a greatly diminished England as well. We are becoming a global irrelevance being driven by a clique of king Canute's who are arguing that in the end the tide of the modern world will understand that England is the centre of the universe and everything will have to bend to our will. I have no idea why the Scottish would want to stay in a union which appears to be grounded in an understanding of the world which is 150 years out of date.

    There are quite a few on here that seem to like the union and would be disappointed if it ended. I have yet however to hear them advance good reasons for why they think the union is great. It all seems to be we have been a single nation since....(pick start date of your choice). The same mistake remainers made during the referendum. It was all dire warnings about what would occur if we left with no praise for the practicalities of the eu merely flummery like the eu brought peace to europe
    The merits of the Great Britain union are formed by geology and found by looking at a map. The merits of united Ireland are discovered in the same way. The present UK, partly based on a mixture of ancient imperialism and religious nonsense, ought to be a gateway to either two states called, respectively, Britain and Ireland, or one state called Britain and Ireland.

    If people could stop squabbling about trivia now would be an excellent time to sort it. The guns have been put away in Ireland, and the sense in Britain of sharing a single island is palpable. Go for it.

    On your bike, we are off to join the EU shortly. You boys can play Billy No Mates as long as you like.
    Is not one of the requirements of joining the eu joining the euro and the need to have an independent currency and bank first. I support 100% scottish independence but I do think that thinking you are going to be back in the eu the moment you gain independence is somewhat of a pipe dream
    Given that it has taken the U.K. 4 years to leave the EU I can see no reason why Scotland could not become independent and join the EU on the same day.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868

    This is an extremely poor decision by Labour.

    Why? He gets the upside of having been seen to take a firm line with the former leader, without the downside (now that the news agenda is focussed elsewhere) of creating a civil war within the party.

    I don’t hold any candle for Labour, but it looks like reasonable politics to me. Particularly if - behind the scenes - Corbyn is now clear that he’ll be expected to be on best behaviour.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    Corbynism is broken.
    Keir gets to be the bigger man by letting him back in. And to the extent it is necessary, it helps shore up the left flank.
  • Starmer has just made a huge mistake

    Re-admitting Corbyn is beyond belief and he has bowed to the union barons

    Wrong on so many levels


  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382

    Corbynism is broken.
    Keir gets to be the bigger man by letting him back in. And to the extent it is necessary, it helps shore up the left flank.

    Agreed , SKS won the Labour leadership by a vast majority.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    isam said:

    Has anyone had much experience of the MMR jabs effect on their kids in the days after it being administered?

    I developed rubella. Don’t know if that counts.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    Doesn’t this imply that the entire population effectively has or has had it?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421

    Starmer has just made a huge mistake

    Re-admitting Corbyn is beyond belief and he has bowed to the union barons

    Wrong on so many levels


    Big G, in the interests of accuracy neither suspension or readmission was actually Starmer’s decision, although I have no doubt he was consulted.
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 5,005
    isam said:

    Has anyone had much experience of the MMR jabs effect on their kids in the days after it being administered?

    Three kids; no effect.
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382

    Starmer has just made a huge mistake

    Re-admitting Corbyn is beyond belief and he has bowed to the union barons

    Wrong on so many levels


    I am sure you know it is not in the gift of the leader. The NEC took the decision.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,883
    edited November 2020
    Incidentally, any significance in that header photo? It's Glenfinnan as any fule kno. Where Charles Edward Stuart landed on the mainland and raised his father's standard to gather the clans in the Rising, in the last act of the Wars of the Covenant. A UK dynastic war, all right, but also arguably a missed opportunity to break the Union rather than faff around at Preston and Derby. Not that that has any significance for modern politics. Love the mass concrete though.
  • DeClareDeClare Posts: 483
    Belgium and Peru have also passed that milestone, the whole of the US, Mexico, Brazil, the UK, Spain, France and Italy will all probably reach it this Winter.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    Corbynism is broken.
    Keir gets to be the bigger man by letting him back in. And to the extent it is necessary, it helps shore up the left flank.

    Have to agree, not worth letting Jez become a martyr. Now it looks like he has had to compromise/say sorry in order to be allowed back
  • Malkie said:

    I'm an Englishman living in Scotland. I vote SNP and support independence for all small nations dominated by much larger, and greatly different, nations. I don't like Tories and I don't want Brexit. An increasingly large majority of Scots agree with me because we didn't vote for Johnson and we didn't vote for Brexit. Alastair Meeks hits the nail on the head.

    Surely there is a complete contradiction there. If you support independence for one nation being dominated by other, greatly different, nations, then you should support Brexit.
  • Is North Dakota the new Sweden?
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    edited November 2020
    Carnyx said:

    Incidentally, any significance in that header photo? It's Glenfinnan as any fule kno. Where Charles Edward Stuart landed on the mainland and raised his father's standard to gather the clans in the Rising, in the last act of the Wars of the Covenant. A UK dynastic war, all right, but also arguably a missed opportunity to break the Union rather than faff around at Preston and Derby. Not that that has any significance for modern politics. Love the mass concrete though.

    Am waiting for a Ford Anglia to fly between Concrete Bob's viaduct.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,893

    Starmer has just made a huge mistake

    Re-admitting Corbyn is beyond belief and he has bowed to the union barons

    Wrong on so many levels


    Corbyn was in Foot's, Kinnock's, Smith's, Blair's, Brown's and Miliband's Labour Party. His views have always been evident and until he became leader he never hid them or sought to hide from them.

    He was elected leader and whether you think the method of choosing the leader is right or not and whether you think some deliberately joined the Labour Party to vote for Corbyn and destabilise the Party or not makes no odds. He won the election and became leader.

    Was he a good leader? No, he was an unqualified disaster for his Party and the country but if we threw out every bad political leader there'd be a lot more expulsions.

    I'm no supporter of Labour and Corbyn's acquiescence in the face of obvious anti-semitism among (and I believe this) a tiny minority of Labour members was and remains inexcusable primarily as an example of poor leadership. I understand wanting a Party to be "inclusive" and a "broad church" - I really do - but every Party has or should have clear lines and behaviours which are unacceptable.

    However, we come back to the point that Blair, Brown et al were "happy" to have Corbyn as a member of the Labour Party and I'm sure you will agree there have been some Conservatives who have not comported themselves to the best image of the Party but remained members (ditto for all parties by the way).

    I would also remind you Boris Johnson sought to expel life-long Conservatives who simply disagreed with him on a key issue.

    Starmer is now leader and the Labour Party he leads is clearly a very different animal from the one led by Corbyn and it is that party and its programme we should judge in terms of suitability for Government.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    Pulpstar said:
    Dodgy lawyer puts forward hopeless cases to make money?

    Do these guys not even watch The Simpsons?
  • DeClareDeClare Posts: 483

    Corbynism is broken.
    Keir gets to be the bigger man by letting him back in. And to the extent it is necessary, it helps shore up the left flank.

    Where could their left flank go if Corbyn was expelled?, they'd have to start a new party and it would get hammered in a General Election.

    During the Blair/Brown years Arthur Scargill and Bob Crow started a 'Socialist Labour Party' and it got nowhere.
  • Pagan2 said:

    Getting away from rocks for a while. My view on brexit and independence are both formed by my view that democracy works well up to certain numbers of population. I am intensely relaxed about policy being formed at the lowest level possible and I would for example have no problem with a UK made up of 50 federalised counties or so. Each setting their own policies for most things and raising their own revenues.

    In a democracy each vote has a value. The bigger the demos the lower the value. This is why we find people believing that their vote does not matter.

    The overarching federalised part only handling trade, foreign policy and defence.

    Excellent contribution. My views exactly.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    DeClare said:

    Belgium and Peru have also passed that milestone, the whole of the US, Mexico, Brazil, the UK, Spain, France and Italy will all probably reach it this Winter.
    And why single out ND, when seven US states have more population-weighted deaths already?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,218
    MaxPB said:

    London "lockdown" observation. No one cares. In the first lockdown there was barely anyone out and no cars on the roads and the buses were empty. I have seen no appreciable difference between today and before the it was introduced. I don't think cases are going to fall very fast or at all.

    Me neither. I actually forgot there was one. This feels closer to March 2019 than March 2020.
  • Pulpstar said:
    I hope he's also charging for disbursements on top of the $20k per diem.

    I mean there's a lot of travel flying out to all the various states.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126

    To oppose Scottish Independence but support Brexit is an oxymoron

    Nope. People put different values on different unions. The SNP don't support the UK Union but do support the EU, and some people don't support the EU but do the UK.

    There are logical reasons in support and against each position.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,410
    Carnyx said:

    It's whom he is targeting that is ther quesiton, if he wasn't just spaffing up his words against the wall. Is he trying to make the Jocks the scapegoat? Can't see how he c ould blame them for the ills of Brexit.
    It's the audience. Northern Mps. The North is poor because the Jocks are taking London's largesse. That is the message.
    1 The SE is kind and benevolent.
    2 The Scots are greedy and never satisfied.
    Therefore
    3 Don't hate 10 years of Tory government for your plight. Blame the kilt wearing skivers.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    ydoethur said:

    Pulpstar said:
    Dodgy lawyer puts forward hopeless cases to make money?

    Do these guys not even watch The Simpsons?
    I thought Trumpy’s motivation was mostly to bring in the donations? They’re all taking their voters for fools. Which at least credits them with knowing their audience, I guess.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,883
    dr_spyn said:

    Carnyx said:

    Incidentally, any significance in that header photo? It's Glenfinnan as any fule kno. Where Charles Edward Stuart landed on the mainland and raised his father's standard to gather the clans in the Rising, in the last act of the Wars of the Covenant. A UK dynastic war, all right, but also arguably a missed opportunity to break the Union rather than faff around at Preston and Derby. Not that that has any significance for modern politics. Love the mass concrete though.

    Am waiting for a Ford Anglia to fly between Concrete Bob's viaduct.
    Eh? I know about the horse and cart in the next one along, but the Ford is a new one to me.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/comments/f5hjmo/in_the_1890s_a_horse_and_cart_fell_into_the/
  • I really want to find this Brexit-supporting young gay cycling Yorkshireman and set-up an introduction with Alastair now.

    Alastair's partner might have a few objections to that.
    I didn't mean it like that.

    You and your dirty mind.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,364
    isam said:

    Has anyone had much experience of the MMR jabs effect on their kids in the days after it being administered?

    No effects.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126
    Not surprised Corbyn was readmitted. I mean, consider what he was suspended for - public comments in defiance of the Leader which made the party look bad. Expulsion or long suspension would not be proportionate in response to that so long as he can present as having climbed back from his comments a bit (whether he has or not).
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205
    edited November 2020
    DeClare said:

    Belgium and Peru have also passed that milestone, the whole of the US, Mexico, Brazil, the UK, Spain, France and Italy will all probably reach it this Winter.
    New Jersey is the worst afflicted US state

    Essex county New Jersey, 1 in 365 residents killed by it.
  • IanB2 said:

    DeClare said:

    Belgium and Peru have also passed that milestone, the whole of the US, Mexico, Brazil, the UK, Spain, France and Italy will all probably reach it this Winter.
    And why single out ND, when seven US states have more population-weighted deaths already?
    Because until about 48 hours ago the GOP Governor of North Dakota was anti mask wearing/anti limiting groups of people meeting.

    This is showing his chickens coming home to roost, sadly.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,218

    Corbynism is broken.
    Keir gets to be the bigger man by letting him back in. And to the extent it is necessary, it helps shore up the left flank.

    Would have looked petty to have left him out in the cold now he's said what he was required to say. Which it is known he doesn't believe. It's a humbling of Corbyn imo.
  • I really want to find this Brexit-supporting young gay cycling Yorkshireman and set-up an introduction with Alastair now.

    Alastair's partner might have a few objections to that.
    I didn't mean it like that.

    You and your dirty mind.
    My mind is like a Welsh railway, one track and filthy.
  • To be fair, who is going to give Rudy a job after the past few years.....last chance to make some dough.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,883
    dixiedean said:

    Carnyx said:

    It's whom he is targeting that is ther quesiton, if he wasn't just spaffing up his words against the wall. Is he trying to make the Jocks the scapegoat? Can't see how he c ould blame them for the ills of Brexit.
    It's the audience. Northern Mps. The North is poor because the Jocks are taking London's largesse. That is the message.
    1 The SE is kind and benevolent.
    2 The Scots are greedy and never satisfied.
    Therefore
    3 Don't hate 10 years of Tory government for your plight. Blame the kilt wearing skivers.
    Ah, thank you.
  • Pulpstar said:
    This is very unfair treatment of a low income client who barely earns enough to pay tax.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    IanB2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Pulpstar said:
    Dodgy lawyer puts forward hopeless cases to make money?

    Do these guys not even watch The Simpsons?
    I thought Trumpy’s motivation was mostly to bring in the donations? They’re all taking their voters for fools. Which at least credits them with knowing their audience, I guess.
    They should get back to their Hutz.

    Pause.

    I am not getting my coat, it’s too cold and I want to stay in my nice warm house.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,410
    edited November 2020
    isam said:

    Has anyone had much experience of the MMR jabs effect on their kids in the days after it being administered?

    One of mine had a fever for a couple of days. Never discovered if it was connected or a coincidence. Other no effect.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126
    kinabalu said:

    MaxPB said:

    London "lockdown" observation. No one cares. In the first lockdown there was barely anyone out and no cars on the roads and the buses were empty. I have seen no appreciable difference between today and before the it was introduced. I don't think cases are going to fall very fast or at all.

    Me neither. I actually forgot there was one. This feels closer to March 2019 than March 2020.
    Yes, unlike earlier this year people have barely mentioned the change.
  • IanB2 said:

    DeClare said:

    Belgium and Peru have also passed that milestone, the whole of the US, Mexico, Brazil, the UK, Spain, France and Italy will all probably reach it this Winter.
    And why single out ND, when seven US states have more population-weighted deaths already?
    For the third time, I will point out the fascinating result (well I think it's fascinating) that you find if you rank US States by number of cases per head of population. Top of the pile? The two Dakotas. Then it's Iowa and then Wisconsin, the first 'blue' State (although very recently a red one.) After that it's a succession of red States.

    It's an extraordinary indictment of the attitude of Republican leaders and officials, from the Great Orange Berk down.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    Scott_xP said:
    See, he’s the only one who got the lot. He is the greatest US President of them all.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126

    Doesn’t this imply that the entire population effectively has or has had it?
    Given the situation in Belgium which is well over that and still suffering badly, apparently not.
  • Scott_xP said:
    That's unfair to George W. Bush.

    He deserves a circle to himself, he also won two terms, and the popular vote.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    Carnyx said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Carnyx said:

    Incidentally, any significance in that header photo? It's Glenfinnan as any fule kno. Where Charles Edward Stuart landed on the mainland and raised his father's standard to gather the clans in the Rising, in the last act of the Wars of the Covenant. A UK dynastic war, all right, but also arguably a missed opportunity to break the Union rather than faff around at Preston and Derby. Not that that has any significance for modern politics. Love the mass concrete though.

    Am waiting for a Ford Anglia to fly between Concrete Bob's viaduct.
    Eh? I know about the horse and cart in the next one along, but the Ford is a new one to me.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/comments/f5hjmo/in_the_1890s_a_horse_and_cart_fell_into_the/
    Harry Potter.

    http://shotonlocation-eng.blogspot.com/2015/09/glenfinnan-viaduct-scotland.html
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,893
    Just had a look at the CBS News website.

    Two weeks on and the votes are still being counted in a number of states - Maine is 91% done but New York is only 84% completed.

    Biden is approaching 79 million votes or 51% while Trump is at 73.25 million and 47%. With every day the gap inches wider and more decisive - the swing to the Democrats from 2016 is approaching 1%.

    In Wisconsin, Biden's lead is 20,500 or 0.7%. In Utah, Trump leads 58-38 or just under 300,000 votes. The lead in Pennsylvania approaches 75,000 or 1.1%. In New York Biden leads 56-42.5 or 920,000 votes. In New Jersey (95% counted), Biden leads 57-41.5 or 700,000 votes.

    In Mississippi, Trump's lead is 19 points or 237,000 votes.

    I wonder if there are enough votes left to get Biden over 80 million.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126
    edited November 2020

    tlg86 said:

    Alastair writes as though the question of Scottish independence has only just appeared post-2016. It hasn't. I was thoroughly appalled at our politicians falling over themselves to keep Scotland in the UK in 2014. It's their decision, if they want to go their own way, let them.

    Very well said!
    No it isn't, since it perpetuates the lazy and insulting notion that there is something untoward about UK politicians involving themselves in a quesiton about the ongoing status of the UK. Something being the decision of X does not mean it is of no legitimate interest of Y, particularly when X and Y are in a political union together. I find it a rather stupid pretence that it is wrong for UK politicians to defend the UK, and I find it rather too phony to be a genuine view. I find it hard to believe people think UK politicians getting involved in a matter on the UK union is odd, even if the person involved reasonably supports Sindy, or even supports staying out of it. People can stay out of it, but that doesn't mean it is of no interest to others.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,770
    Re header, and the estimable Meeks

    Great first sentence - sort of feels like the start of a good novel. I'd have quite liked white whales and the like to appear. You're right in some ways and wrong in others. For example there's no 'question' of kinship with the Scots, many of us are as Scottish bloodwise as they are.

    I'd quibble with this one identity thing too - I have just one identity, but I have many (often contradictory) loyalties.

    I'll pose you a question - were you to be 100% in charge of the future of Scotland, what would you do?

    My guess is that you'd let the people of Scotland decide, but what's more tricky is whether you might stick an oar in? I'd personally stick the oar in and say that independence is daft (although clearly I'd not phrase it thus).

    (Independence is daft, but a small daftness may be outbalanced by the great benefits of feelings)
  • Why does Mr Meeks not post in the threads anymore?
  • IanB2 said:

    DeClare said:

    Belgium and Peru have also passed that milestone, the whole of the US, Mexico, Brazil, the UK, Spain, France and Italy will all probably reach it this Winter.
    And why single out ND, when seven US states have more population-weighted deaths already?
    Because until about 48 hours ago the GOP Governor of North Dakota was anti mask wearing/anti limiting groups of people meeting.

    This is showing his chickens coming home to roost, sadly.
    One suspects that he dared not express his true views for fear of reprisals from the White House. What a craven bunch, eh?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421

    Scott_xP said:
    That's unfair to George W. Bush.

    He deserves a circle to himself, he also won two terms, and the popular vote.
    Interesting that Cleveland is included in the one term presidency patch as well, given he did win two terms and the popular vote three times (only person to do the latter other than FDR).
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited November 2020
    dixiedean said:

    isam said:

    Has anyone had much experience of the MMR jabs effect on their kids in the days after it being administered?

    One of my had a fever for a couple of days. Never discovered if it was connected or a coincidence. Other no effect.
    Mine had a fever and was listless today after having the jab yesterday and is currently waiting to be discharged after his Grandparents took him to hospital in an ambulance. A bit worrying
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676
    stodge said:

    Just had a look at the CBS News website.

    Two weeks on and the votes are still being counted in a number of states - Maine is 91% done but New York is only 84% completed.

    Biden is approaching 79 million votes or 51% while Trump is at 73.25 million and 47%. With every day the gap inches wider and more decisive - the swing to the Democrats from 2016 is approaching 1%.

    In Wisconsin, Biden's lead is 20,500 or 0.7%. In Utah, Trump leads 58-38 or just under 300,000 votes. The lead in Pennsylvania approaches 75,000 or 1.1%. In New York Biden leads 56-42.5 or 920,000 votes. In New Jersey (95% counted), Biden leads 57-41.5 or 700,000 votes.

    In Mississippi, Trump's lead is 19 points or 237,000 votes.

    I wonder if there are enough votes left to get Biden over 80 million.

    79.036m now

    i see Rudi wants $20k a day to represent Trump

    Turned down the offer of $10k a day and unlimited access to Borats daughter
  • johntjohnt Posts: 166

    Malkie said:

    I'm an Englishman living in Scotland. I vote SNP and support independence for all small nations dominated by much larger, and greatly different, nations. I don't like Tories and I don't want Brexit. An increasingly large majority of Scots agree with me because we didn't vote for Johnson and we didn't vote for Brexit. Alastair Meeks hits the nail on the head.

    Surely there is a complete contradiction there. If you support independence for one nation being dominated by other, greatly different, nations, then you should support Brexit.
    No the EU is a partnership of equals the U.K. is England seeking to dominate Scotland, NI and Wales. Something Johnson demonstrates pretty much every day. To compare the two is simply absurd.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,388
    stodge said:

    Starmer has just made a huge mistake

    Re-admitting Corbyn is beyond belief and he has bowed to the union barons

    Wrong on so many levels


    Corbyn was in Foot's, Kinnock's, Smith's, Blair's, Brown's and Miliband's Labour Party. His views have always been evident and until he became leader he never hid them or sought to hide from them.

    He was elected leader and whether you think the method of choosing the leader is right or not and whether you think some deliberately joined the Labour Party to vote for Corbyn and destabilise the Party or not makes no odds. He won the election and became leader.

    Was he a good leader? No, he was an unqualified disaster for his Party and the country but if we threw out every bad political leader there'd be a lot more expulsions.

    I'm no supporter of Labour and Corbyn's acquiescence in the face of obvious anti-semitism among (and I believe this) a tiny minority of Labour members was and remains inexcusable primarily as an example of poor leadership. I understand wanting a Party to be "inclusive" and a "broad church" - I really do - but every Party has or should have clear lines and behaviours which are unacceptable.

    However, we come back to the point that Blair, Brown et al were "happy" to have Corbyn as a member of the Labour Party and I'm sure you will agree there have been some Conservatives who have not comported themselves to the best image of the Party but remained members (ditto for all parties by the way).

    I would also remind you Boris Johnson sought to expel life-long Conservatives who simply disagreed with him on a key issue.

    Starmer is now leader and the Labour Party he leads is clearly a very different animal from the one led by Corbyn and it is that party and its programme we should judge in terms of suitability for Government.
    Absolutely spot on. Unlike you, I'm a Labour supporter; like you, I've no time for Corbyn. But he has been in the Labour Party for over 50 years, and an MP for 37 years. He caused no great problem to Kinnock or Blair - there are always a few like him in the broad church that is the LP. It is only in the last 4 years that anybody has really noticed him. He has had his time in the sun, and he will now gradually fade away into backbench obscurity, lobbying from the left, along with others that supported him but actually now hold little sway.

    The Tory Party has as much, if not more, of a problem in two respects: firstly, a handful of very right-wing MPs; secondly, and most importantly, a handful who have clearly got their snouts in the trough and benefit financially from their status.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205
    Obama appointed judge...

    Can't see this line of reasoning going well for Rudy

    Giuliani claims this is alleged conspiracy happening in "big cities, controlled by Democrats."
  • But the Jewish Labour Movement called the decision to reinstate Mr Corbyn "extraordinary", adding: "After his failure of leadership to tackle anti-Semitism, so clearly set out in the EHRC's report, any reasonable and fair-minded observer would see Jeremy Corbyn's statement today as insincere and wholly inadequate."
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381
    Off Topic

    Jeremy Corbyn reinstated...but not before he had to grovel!
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176

    But the Jewish Labour Movement called the decision to reinstate Mr Corbyn "extraordinary", adding: "After his failure of leadership to tackle anti-Semitism, so clearly set out in the EHRC's report, any reasonable and fair-minded observer would see Jeremy Corbyn's statement today as insincere and wholly inadequate."

    I suspect Starmer's going to get to have the best of both worlds. Get the good publicity of kicking him out but then quietly letting him back in to keep the unions onside.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,669
    edited November 2020
    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:
    That's unfair to George W. Bush.

    He deserves a circle to himself, he also won two terms, and the popular vote.
    Interesting that Cleveland is included in the one term presidency patch as well, given he did win two terms and the popular vote three times (only person to do the latter other than FDR).
    Cleveland's one of my favourite quiz questions.

    Q: Donald Trump is the 45th President of the United States of America, how many men have been President?

    A: About 99% say 45, only us history geeks say the right answer of 44.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    MaxPB said:

    London "lockdown" observation. No one cares. In the first lockdown there was barely anyone out and no cars on the roads and the buses were empty. I have seen no appreciable difference between today and before the it was introduced. I don't think cases are going to fall very fast or at all.

    Hmm not sure. Have just strolled down a very deserted Marylebone High St.

    Almost no one around, those that are are all clustered around Waitrose. Looks pretty bleak to me.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,218
    IanB2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Pulpstar said:
    Dodgy lawyer puts forward hopeless cases to make money?

    Do these guys not even watch The Simpsons?
    I thought Trumpy’s motivation was mostly to bring in the donations? They’re all taking their voters for fools. Which at least credits them with knowing their audience, I guess.
    He will be wanting his base to reach into their pockets heavily and frequently over the next few years. Wonder how many will start to see through him? They can't all be think as planks surely.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126
    johnt said:

    Malkie said:

    I'm an Englishman living in Scotland. I vote SNP and support independence for all small nations dominated by much larger, and greatly different, nations. I don't like Tories and I don't want Brexit. An increasingly large majority of Scots agree with me because we didn't vote for Johnson and we didn't vote for Brexit. Alastair Meeks hits the nail on the head.

    Surely there is a complete contradiction there. If you support independence for one nation being dominated by other, greatly different, nations, then you should support Brexit.
    No the EU is a partnership of equals the U.K. is England seeking to dominate Scotland, NI and Wales. Something Johnson demonstrates pretty much every day. To compare the two is simply absurd.
    I hate defending the SNP, and I don't agree with that description of the UK, but I think people pushing the line that EU support is not compatible with Sindy are likely to be unsuccessful, and it just doesn't seem fair. Even if you can compare the two unions in that way, people could still quite reasonably decide they prefer one to the other, or both, or none.
  • Scott_xP said:
    That's unfair to George W. Bush.

    He deserves a circle to himself, he also won two terms, and the popular vote.
    I think they've got Rutherford B Hayes in the wrong circle - he was both a one term President and lost the popular vote, so ought to be in the intersect with John Quincey Adams and Benjamin Harrison. As you say, Bush Jnr is unique in having won two terms but lost the popular vote once in doing so.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    London (CNN) The coronavirus has found its way to Boris Johnson for the second time in a year. The British Prime Minister, who overcame a serious brush with the virus earlier this year, is self-quarantining again after he came in close contact at Downing Street with a lawmaker who subsequently tested positive.

    That the Prime Minister's official residence has once again become the location of a coronavirus outbreak has raised serious questions not just about how the UK government is handling the pandemic in the country, but how it's dealing with the risk inside its own buildings.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868

    Doesn’t this imply that the entire population effectively has or has had it?
    No, about 10-20% depending on the CFR and age profile of people who have had it.
  • isam said:

    dixiedean said:

    isam said:

    Has anyone had much experience of the MMR jabs effect on their kids in the days after it being administered?

    One of my had a fever for a couple of days. Never discovered if it was connected or a coincidence. Other no effect.
    Mine had a fever and was listless today after having the jab yesterday and is currently waiting to be discharged after his Grandparents took him to hospital in an ambulance. A bit worrying
    Understandable you're worrying but to reassure you a little, babies, especially in their first few winters really don't like the cold weather, I hope and suspect it's just coincidence that it has occurred shortly after their MMR jab.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,551

    Malkie said:

    I'm an Englishman living in Scotland. I vote SNP and support independence for all small nations dominated by much larger, and greatly different, nations. I don't like Tories and I don't want Brexit. An increasingly large majority of Scots agree with me because we didn't vote for Johnson and we didn't vote for Brexit. Alastair Meeks hits the nail on the head.

    Surely there is a complete contradiction there. If you support independence for one nation being dominated by other, greatly different, nations, then you should support Brexit.
    These two positions sums it up really. SNP Scots can't understand why England might want to be free of the EU. Lots of Brexiteers can't understand why Scotland might want to be free of England. Bit of dialogue needed?.....


  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205
    Have any of the legal eagles here ever used this line in court ?

    https://twitter.com/KlasfeldReports/status/1328778314228576257
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    IanB2 said:

    London (CNN) The coronavirus has found its way to Boris Johnson for the second time in a year. The British Prime Minister, who overcame a serious brush with the virus earlier this year, is self-quarantining again after he came in close contact at Downing Street with a lawmaker who subsequently tested positive.

    That the Prime Minister's official residence has once again become the location of a coronavirus outbreak has raised serious questions not just about how the UK government is handling the pandemic in the country, but how it's dealing with the risk inside its own buildings.

    The fact (if it is a fact) that he hasn't had a test in the last week is beyond preposterous
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992

    Malkie said:

    I'm an Englishman living in Scotland. I vote SNP and support independence for all small nations dominated by much larger, and greatly different, nations. I don't like Tories and I don't want Brexit. An increasingly large majority of Scots agree with me because we didn't vote for Johnson and we didn't vote for Brexit. Alastair Meeks hits the nail on the head.

    Surely there is a complete contradiction there. If you support independence for one nation being dominated by other, greatly different, nations, then you should support Brexit.
    That you equate Scotland's relationship with the UK to the UK's relationship with the EU speaks volumes.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,459

    Doesn’t this imply that the entire population effectively has or has had it?
    Sadly no. If the ifs is 1% then only 10% have had it...
  • gealbhangealbhan Posts: 2,362
    Scott_xP said:
    The FT has plenty on his remain past today. He has solid anti brexit form, so will deliver a better deal than a leaver would have, because he knows there has to be a deal, he will ensure one.

    He is someone, along with Princess Nut Nut who now controls the downing st operation, remainers and non Torys can rely on.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    algarkirk said:

    Malkie said:

    I'm an Englishman living in Scotland. I vote SNP and support independence for all small nations dominated by much larger, and greatly different, nations. I don't like Tories and I don't want Brexit. An increasingly large majority of Scots agree with me because we didn't vote for Johnson and we didn't vote for Brexit. Alastair Meeks hits the nail on the head.

    Surely there is a complete contradiction there. If you support independence for one nation being dominated by other, greatly different, nations, then you should support Brexit.
    These two positions sums it up really. SNP Scots can't understand why England might want to be free of the EU. Lots of Brexiteers can't understand why Scotland might want to be free of England. Bit of dialogue needed?.....


    Fucks sake you too? You really think the two are the same?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    edited November 2020
    Pulpstar said:

    Have any of the legal eagles here ever used this line in court ?

    https://twitter.com/KlasfeldReports/status/1328778314228576257

    WTAF :hushed:

    Edit - David Irving tried something like that in his libel trial. Justice Gray withered him with the wonderfully dry response, ‘If I may so say, Mr Irving, we must do better than that.’
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221
    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    London "lockdown" observation. No one cares. In the first lockdown there was barely anyone out and no cars on the roads and the buses were empty. I have seen no appreciable difference between today and before the it was introduced. I don't think cases are going to fall very fast or at all.

    Hmm not sure. Have just strolled down a very deserted Marylebone High St.

    Almost no one around, those that are are all clustered around Waitrose. Looks pretty bleak to me.
    Likewise much of north London. Desolate.

    Some suburbs have managed to get a villagey feel - Highgate, Hampstead, others - Camden, Crouch End. Belsize - are deserted. Shuttered.
  • Pulpstar said:

    Have any of the legal eagles here ever used this line in court ?

    https://twitter.com/KlasfeldReports/status/1328778314228576257

    Is he asking for a continuance?

    Or is this further evidence that no one in the Trump (legal) camp has ever heard about hearsay?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126
    Pulpstar said:

    Have any of the legal eagles here ever used this line in court ?

    https://twitter.com/KlasfeldReports/status/1328778314228576257

    His comments appear to bear little relation to what the campaign have been arguing for in court in a number of instances, and on what they have not been arguing.
  • ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:
    That's unfair to George W. Bush.

    He deserves a circle to himself, he also won two terms, and the popular vote.
    Interesting that Cleveland is included in the one term presidency patch as well, given he did win two terms and the popular vote three times (only person to do the latter other than FDR).
    Cleveland's one of my favourite quiz questions.

    Q: Donald Trump is the 45th President of the United States of America, how many men have been President?

    A: About 99% say 45, only us history geeks say the right answer of 44.
    Obama got this bit of trivia wrong when he was inaugurated, referring in his speech to 43 men having been President before him when, technically, it was 42 at that time.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,533
    LadyG said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    London "lockdown" observation. No one cares. In the first lockdown there was barely anyone out and no cars on the roads and the buses were empty. I have seen no appreciable difference between today and before the it was introduced. I don't think cases are going to fall very fast or at all.

    Hmm not sure. Have just strolled down a very deserted Marylebone High St.

    Almost no one around, those that are are all clustered around Waitrose. Looks pretty bleak to me.
    Likewise much of north London. Desolate.

    Some suburbs have managed to get a villagey feel - Highgate, Hampstead, others - Camden, Crouch End. Belsize - are deserted. Shuttered.
    I'm responsible inter alia for public car parks in our borough in the four main towns. Two weeks ago, usage was up to 70% of normal levels. Last week, it collapsed to 20%.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205

    Pulpstar said:

    Have any of the legal eagles here ever used this line in court ?

    https://twitter.com/KlasfeldReports/status/1328778314228576257

    Is he asking for a continuance?

    Or is this further evidence that no one in the Trump (legal) camp has ever heard about hearsay?
    He's a deep operative for team Biden based on this line of argument

    https://twitter.com/KlasfeldReports/status/1328780021016780801
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Have any of the legal eagles here ever used this line in court ?

    https://twitter.com/KlasfeldReports/status/1328778314228576257

    Is he asking for a continuance?

    Or is this further evidence that no one in the Trump (legal) camp has ever heard about hearsay?
    He's a deep operative for team Biden based on this line of argument

    https://twitter.com/KlasfeldReports/status/1328780021016780801
    If I were a judge I'd really hope lawyers would dial back the emotive stuff. Ok, it is no doubt partly a performance he wants reported to Trump's supporters, but it's not meant to be just a performance piece. He can do a one man play if he wants.
  • Pulpstar said:

    Have any of the legal eagles here ever used this line in court ?

    https://twitter.com/KlasfeldReports/status/1328778314228576257

    My favourite Rudy-on-civil-procedure moment was this beauty - "Tweet me your guess, while I go prove it in court!"

    https://twitter.com/RudyGiuliani/status/1325410570703679489
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    LadyG said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    London "lockdown" observation. No one cares. In the first lockdown there was barely anyone out and no cars on the roads and the buses were empty. I have seen no appreciable difference between today and before the it was introduced. I don't think cases are going to fall very fast or at all.

    Hmm not sure. Have just strolled down a very deserted Marylebone High St.

    Almost no one around, those that are are all clustered around Waitrose. Looks pretty bleak to me.
    Likewise much of north London. Desolate.

    Some suburbs have managed to get a villagey feel - Highgate, Hampstead, others - Camden, Crouch End. Belsize - are deserted. Shuttered.
    Hackney is heaving.
  • IanB2 said:

    DeClare said:

    Belgium and Peru have also passed that milestone, the whole of the US, Mexico, Brazil, the UK, Spain, France and Italy will all probably reach it this Winter.
    And why single out ND, when seven US states have more population-weighted deaths already?
    Because until about 48 hours ago the GOP Governor of North Dakota was anti mask wearing/anti limiting groups of people meeting.

    This is showing his chickens coming home to roost, sadly.
    One suspects that he dared not express his true views for fear of reprisals from the White House. What a craven bunch, eh?
    Indeed, history will not be kind to politicians like him.

    Normally when politicians majorly screw up it usually leads to a recession, here they are responsible for tens of thousands of deaths.
  • TOPPING said:

    algarkirk said:

    Malkie said:

    I'm an Englishman living in Scotland. I vote SNP and support independence for all small nations dominated by much larger, and greatly different, nations. I don't like Tories and I don't want Brexit. An increasingly large majority of Scots agree with me because we didn't vote for Johnson and we didn't vote for Brexit. Alastair Meeks hits the nail on the head.

    Surely there is a complete contradiction there. If you support independence for one nation being dominated by other, greatly different, nations, then you should support Brexit.
    These two positions sums it up really. SNP Scots can't understand why England might want to be free of the EU. Lots of Brexiteers can't understand why Scotland might want to be free of England. Bit of dialogue needed?.....


    Fucks sake you too? You really think the two are the same?
    They're not the same but the principles are similar.
This discussion has been closed.