We don't need to worry about the vaccine - supplies will be flown in. It's not vaccine that we need to be concerned about, its food...
Food is OK. We can all eat the mountains of fish that we will no longer be able to export.
We can? In which factories are you planning to process all this fish so that it is in an edible format?
Surely we cook just gut them on the quayside? Sure, no part of Britain is far from the sea ...
Oh yes. I eat fish straight (or smoked) from the van fromk Eyemouth [small fishing port in the Borders]. But I do wonder about educating the public to do that rather than rely on fish fingers etc - not easy (and not very practical for many families).
I also believe such disruptions are less likely...
Do you believe in the Great Flying Spaghetti Monster too?
Just because you believe something does not mean that reality will listen and obey.
Its alt-fact lunacy. *Any* delay at all vs the current c. 2mins crossing time creates a huge blockage which gums the whole thing completely. The new computer system to manage customs doesn't exist. The old computer system can't handle the number of transactions. The people needed to process the transactions on the computer system that either doesn't yet exist or can't handle them don't exist.
On 1st January 2021 we either maintain the status quo. Or everything stops. What Philip is saying is literal wishful thinking that is demolished by the facts on the ground and not shared by anyone who is actually involved in the actual business of logistics.
What I'm saying is shared by people in the actual business of logistics though.
Plenty of people in the actual business have gone on TV and said eg for major grocery retailers that they are confident they can cope and will have food on the shelves either way even if there is some disruption.
Please quote anyone in the actual business saying their actual business is going to collapse and not cope? Because I've not seen one person say that yet besides terrified scaremongers.
I also believe such disruptions are less likely...
Do you believe in the Great Flying Spaghetti Monster too?
Just because you believe something does not mean that reality will listen and obey.
Its alt-fact lunacy. *Any* delay at all vs the current c. 2mins crossing time creates a huge blockage which gums the whole thing completely. The new computer system to manage customs doesn't exist. The old computer system can't handle the number of transactions. The people needed to process the transactions on the computer system that either doesn't yet exist or can't handle them don't exist.
On 1st January 2021 we either maintain the status quo. Or everything stops. What Philip is saying is literal wishful thinking that is demolished by the facts on the ground and not shared by anyone who is actually involved in the actual business of logistics.
What I'm saying is shared by people in the actual business of logistics though.
Plenty of people in the actual business have gone on TV and said eg for major grocery retailers that they are confident they can cope and will have food on the shelves either way even if there is some disruption.
Please quote anyone in the actual business saying their actual business is going to collapse and not cope? Because I've not seen one person say that yet besides terrified scaremongers.
Nobody in the right mind is going to say their bysiness will collapse - their lenders would instantly yank the plug. And remember we don't yet know what is happening and how. But this sort of worry.
Really? You completely dismiss the possibility that the delivery of vaccine supplies could be compromised?
I cannot foresee any plausible circumstance where the delivery of vaccine supplies would be allowed to be compromised.
Please outline one for me.
A traffic jam is a traffic jam. That is how simple it is.
And you think a vaccine is going to sit in traffic? Don't be so naive!
So how else are vaccines plus the huge weight of refrigeration stuff that goes with them transported from where they are made to where they are needed? Budgie the Little Helicopter?
If Budgie the Little Helicopter is a nickname for the military I wasn't aware of then yes.
What did you think they'd do, send them off with a Hermes delivery truck?
Why not stop making it up as you go along, and research what you are talking about a bit. What have the military got to do with it, unless there is a parallel road and motorway system reserved for their use of which the public knows nothing, and unless there is a Royal Pharmaceutical Distribution Corps with all the relevant training, certification and incredibly expensive specialised vehicles and storage facilities, on standby? It's just classic brexitoid magical thinking to think that talk of "special couriers" gets round the fact that there is just the one road network. The one Hermes trucks use.
I also believe such disruptions are less likely...
Do you believe in the Great Flying Spaghetti Monster too?
Just because you believe something does not mean that reality will listen and obey.
Its alt-fact lunacy. *Any* delay at all vs the current c. 2mins crossing time creates a huge blockage which gums the whole thing completely. The new computer system to manage customs doesn't exist. The old computer system can't handle the number of transactions. The people needed to process the transactions on the computer system that either doesn't yet exist or can't handle them don't exist.
On 1st January 2021 we either maintain the status quo. Or everything stops. What Philip is saying is literal wishful thinking that is demolished by the facts on the ground and not shared by anyone who is actually involved in the actual business of logistics.
I was involved (years ago) in writing large logistical systems. I appreciate the complexities...
A cop-out by Mrs Tice? It must already be a done deal
She's a contraindicator.
Expecting to find out what's happening from her is like asking Laura Pidcock her opinion.
Laura Pidcock, as far as I am aware, does not share pillow talk with Richard "Mr Brexit" Tice.
You missed the point.
Tice/Oaleshott have no greater insight into what is going on than other fruitcakes, nuts and loons like Pidcock etc.
Her ramblings are meaningless.
No I didn't!
I look forward to you defending Johnson's inspirational wisdom in calling for a Covid-19 justified transition extension when Boris makes the announcement.
A transition to a defined endpoint, a genuine transition or implementation period is entirely reasonable. But then the negotiations will have finished.
An extension without defining the end point is insanity and I will not support that.
And yet the UK government has repeatedly said "we must have a deal by X or we will call off the talks and prepare for no deal". X has variously been July, the end of the Summer, 15 October...
And yet, he's never pushed the button. Never said to the UK, "Stiffen the sinews, folks, this is what we need to do." Despite the fact that the more prep, the better. That should tell you something.
And I bet if there was an extension she would be screaming blue murder in 30 seconds flat.
I think it's worth considering that there are two quite different kinds of extension possible here. One would be a "kick the can down the road" extension to enable further negotiations. This could only be justified if there was a feeling that a breakthrough was imminent, but after years of negotiation it's hard to see how "one more heave" is going to get the job done. It would also be an implicit admission that the status quo is a more comfortable place to continue negotiation from than the reality of a hard Brexit, which is not what the UK government says in public (I've no idea what they believe privately).
There is an another kind of extension, though: if an agreement is reached, but that agreement requires substantial new infrastructure (customs checks and so on) in order to work, it would make sense for both sides to give each other the time to put those systems in place before making them mandatory. We're already at the point where if a deal was done tomorrow, we'd have a bare six weeks to implement whatever terms are agreed. So, unless the deal ends up preserving a lot of today's systems and practices, some kind of period will be required to implement the new ones. An "implementation period", if you will.
Absolutely agreed!
An implementation period is eminently reasonable. It's a completely different kettle of fish.
Really? You completely dismiss the possibility that the delivery of vaccine supplies could be compromised?
I cannot foresee any plausible circumstance where the delivery of vaccine supplies would be allowed to be compromised.
Please outline one for me.
A traffic jam is a traffic jam. That is how simple it is.
And you think a vaccine is going to sit in traffic? Don't be so naive!
So how else are vaccines plus the huge weight of refrigeration stuff that goes with them transported from where they are made to where they are needed? Budgie the Little Helicopter?
If Budgie the Little Helicopter is a nickname for the military I wasn't aware of then yes.
What did you think they'd do, send them off with a Hermes delivery truck?
Ah, now I see. When the military are called in it's because of some ****ing great disaster, or a massive rebellion or terrorist insurgency.
COVID19 doesn't count as some ****ING great disaster in its own right?
Well, the lkast time the Raff were called in was because the Gmt screwed up PPE. So you can see why most of us have zero confidence.
And that only worked because you don't need CEIV Pharma to fly PPE. This is not a Biggles To The Rescue situation.
A cop-out by Mrs Tice? It must already be a done deal
She's a contraindicator.
Expecting to find out what's happening from her is like asking Laura Pidcock her opinion.
Laura Pidcock, as far as I am aware, does not share pillow talk with Richard "Mr Brexit" Tice.
You missed the point.
Tice/Oaleshott have no greater insight into what is going on than other fruitcakes, nuts and loons like Pidcock etc.
Her ramblings are meaningless.
No I didn't!
I look forward to you defending Johnson's inspirational wisdom in calling for a Covid-19 justified transition extension when Boris makes the announcement.
A transition to a defined endpoint, a genuine transition or implementation period is entirely reasonable. But then the negotiations will have finished.
An extension without defining the end point is insanity and I will not support that.
And yet the UK government has repeatedly said "we must have a deal by X or we will call off the talks and prepare for no deal". X has variously been July, the end of the Summer, 15 October...
And yet, he's never pushed the button. Never said to the UK, "Stiffen the sinews, folks, this is what we need to do." Despite the fact that the more prep, the better. That should tell you something.
That talks are ongoing and it ain't over until the fat lady sings.
I also believe such disruptions are less likely...
Do you believe in the Great Flying Spaghetti Monster too?
Just because you believe something does not mean that reality will listen and obey.
Its alt-fact lunacy. *Any* delay at all vs the current c. 2mins crossing time creates a huge blockage which gums the whole thing completely. The new computer system to manage customs doesn't exist. The old computer system can't handle the number of transactions. The people needed to process the transactions on the computer system that either doesn't yet exist or can't handle them don't exist.
On 1st January 2021 we either maintain the status quo. Or everything stops. What Philip is saying is literal wishful thinking that is demolished by the facts on the ground and not shared by anyone who is actually involved in the actual business of logistics.
What I'm saying is shared by people in the actual business of logistics though.
Plenty of people in the actual business have gone on TV and said eg for major grocery retailers that they are confident they can cope and will have food on the shelves either way even if there is some disruption.
Please quote anyone in the actual business saying their actual business is going to collapse and not cope? Because I've not seen one person say that yet besides terrified scaremongers.
Is the sky green over your head? Sainsbury's. This Tuesday. At their annual trade conference. "We don't know how we're going to trade on 1st January. There is no agreement across the EU, which affects our supply and logistics, nor are there trade agreements with most of the rest of the world".
Over in Norniron - which is the UK despite Shagger not thinking it is - all of the major UK supermarkets are warning shoppers that literally thousands of products may be unavailable due to the technical challenge of trying to import short life fresh food through the GB/NI border. Remember that the UK government cannot tell Sainsbury's or any of the rest of them what paperwork they will need to ship GB to NI.
Any disruption. At all. And everything stops. That is reality. According to the people on the ground.
An extension is the path of least resistance. Johnson just needs to make it look like the EU has backed down.
Get 'No Change But With The Option For Future Divergence' Brexit Done!
It's always been the case that change would be incremental over the future. Remember pretty much the entire body of EU law was adopted as domestic law as part of the Withdrawal Act.
It's having the option for future divergence, unilaterally controlled by our sovereign Parliament, that is the key issue.
Really? You completely dismiss the possibility that the delivery of vaccine supplies could be compromised?
I cannot foresee any plausible circumstance where the delivery of vaccine supplies would be allowed to be compromised.
Please outline one for me.
A traffic jam is a traffic jam. That is how simple it is.
And you think a vaccine is going to sit in traffic? Don't be so naive!
So how else are vaccines plus the huge weight of refrigeration stuff that goes with them transported from where they are made to where they are needed? Budgie the Little Helicopter?
If Budgie the Little Helicopter is a nickname for the military I wasn't aware of then yes.
What did you think they'd do, send them off with a Hermes delivery truck?
Why not stop making it up as you go along, and research what you are talking about a bit. What have the military got to do with it, unless there is a parallel road and motorway system reserved for their use of which the public knows nothing, and unless there is a Royal Pharmaceutical Distribution Corps with all the relevant training, certification and incredibly expensive specialised vehicles and storage facilities, on standby? It's just classic brexitoid magical thinking to think that talk of "special couriers" gets round the fact that there is just the one road network. The one Hermes trucks use.
Helicopters use the road now?
I was unaware of that.
🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄
You really have lost this one. How many helicopters are there in the world capable of bulk transportation of refrigerated pharmaceuticals?
A cop-out by Mrs Tice? It must already be a done deal
She's a contraindicator.
Expecting to find out what's happening from her is like asking Laura Pidcock her opinion.
Laura Pidcock, as far as I am aware, does not share pillow talk with Richard "Mr Brexit" Tice.
You missed the point.
Tice/Oaleshott have no greater insight into what is going on than other fruitcakes, nuts and loons like Pidcock etc.
Her ramblings are meaningless.
No I didn't!
I look forward to you defending Johnson's inspirational wisdom in calling for a Covid-19 justified transition extension when Boris makes the announcement.
A transition to a defined endpoint, a genuine transition or implementation period is entirely reasonable. But then the negotiations will have finished.
An extension without defining the end point is insanity and I will not support that.
And yet the UK government has repeatedly said "we must have a deal by X or we will call off the talks and prepare for no deal". X has variously been July, the end of the Summer, 15 October...
And yet, he's never pushed the button. Never said to the UK, "Stiffen the sinews, folks, this is what we need to do." Despite the fact that the more prep, the better. That should tell you something.
That talks are ongoing and it ain't over until the fat lady sings.
A deal could be ratified 31/12/20.
If you open your parachute in the last 100m, you're still going to break a lot of bones.
I also believe such disruptions are less likely...
Do you believe in the Great Flying Spaghetti Monster too?
Just because you believe something does not mean that reality will listen and obey.
Its alt-fact lunacy. *Any* delay at all vs the current c. 2mins crossing time creates a huge blockage which gums the whole thing completely. The new computer system to manage customs doesn't exist. The old computer system can't handle the number of transactions. The people needed to process the transactions on the computer system that either doesn't yet exist or can't handle them don't exist.
On 1st January 2021 we either maintain the status quo. Or everything stops. What Philip is saying is literal wishful thinking that is demolished by the facts on the ground and not shared by anyone who is actually involved in the actual business of logistics.
What I'm saying is shared by people in the actual business of logistics though.
Plenty of people in the actual business have gone on TV and said eg for major grocery retailers that they are confident they can cope and will have food on the shelves either way even if there is some disruption.
Please quote anyone in the actual business saying their actual business is going to collapse and not cope? Because I've not seen one person say that yet besides terrified scaremongers.
Is the sky green over your head? Sainsbury's. This Tuesday. At their annual trade conference. "We don't know how we're going to trade on 1st January. There is no agreement across the EU, which affects our supply and logistics, nor are there trade agreements with most of the rest of the world".
Over in Norniron - which is the UK despite Shagger not thinking it is - all of the major UK supermarkets are warning shoppers that literally thousands of products may be unavailable due to the technical challenge of trying to import short life fresh food through the GB/NI border. Remember that the UK government cannot tell Sainsbury's or any of the rest of them what paperwork they will need to ship GB to NI.
Any disruption. At all. And everything stops. That is reality. According to the people on the ground.
But Philip belieeeeeves it's all gonna be all right on the night.
I also believe such disruptions are less likely...
Do you believe in the Great Flying Spaghetti Monster too?
Just because you believe something does not mean that reality will listen and obey.
Anyone still believing the glib assurances of the Brexiteers hasn't been paying attention for the last 4 years.
I was and am a Remainer but when Leave won I assumed that they knew what they were doing I assumed that there was some sort of plan to deliver the things they promised in order to win the referendum. I couldn't have been more wrong.
Really? You completely dismiss the possibility that the delivery of vaccine supplies could be compromised?
I cannot foresee any plausible circumstance where the delivery of vaccine supplies would be allowed to be compromised.
Please outline one for me.
A traffic jam is a traffic jam. That is how simple it is.
And you think a vaccine is going to sit in traffic? Don't be so naive!
So how else are vaccines plus the huge weight of refrigeration stuff that goes with them transported from where they are made to where they are needed? Budgie the Little Helicopter?
If Budgie the Little Helicopter is a nickname for the military I wasn't aware of then yes.
What did you think they'd do, send them off with a Hermes delivery truck?
Why not stop making it up as you go along, and research what you are talking about a bit. What have the military got to do with it, unless there is a parallel road and motorway system reserved for their use of which the public knows nothing, and unless there is a Royal Pharmaceutical Distribution Corps with all the relevant training, certification and incredibly expensive specialised vehicles and storage facilities, on standby? It's just classic brexitoid magical thinking to think that talk of "special couriers" gets round the fact that there is just the one road network. The one Hermes trucks use.
Helicopters use the road now?
I was unaware of that.
🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄
You really have lost this one. How many helicopters are there in the world capable of bulk transportation of refrigerated pharmaceuticals?
We don't need to worry about the vaccine - supplies will be flown in. It's not vaccine that we need to be concerned about, its food...
Food is OK. We can all eat the mountains of fish that we will no longer be able to export.
We can? In which factories are you planning to process all this fish so that it is in an edible format?
Surely we cook just gut them on the quayside? Sure, no part of Britain is far from the sea ...
Oh yes. I eat fish straight (or smoked) from the van fromk Eyemouth [small fishing port in the Borders]. But I do wonder about educating the public to do that rather than rely on fish fingers etc - not easy (and not very practical for many families).
I once helped show a Guide pack how to prepare some food from scratch. The number of girls that shrank away from raw meat was worrying - they were happy to eat it but they wanted nothing to do with touching it.
I kept the fresh mackerel in the fridge. I suspected that the cleaning and gutting session would not be a success
Perez could not have defended against Hamilton, the pace difference was overwhelming.
Wrong call for Stroll, but many of those today.
Red for both my bets, bit unlucky with Leclerc, but these things happen. Overall this season I've definitely had more than my fair share of luck, so can't complain.
On the bright side, utterly splendid for both my Racing Points/McLaren best of the rest teams bets and similar bet on Perez.
Edited extra bit: oh, and the 5.45 on Verstappen for the win on Betfair, pre-third practice, was handily hedged at 2.5, so green there.
Really? You completely dismiss the possibility that the delivery of vaccine supplies could be compromised?
I cannot foresee any plausible circumstance where the delivery of vaccine supplies would be allowed to be compromised.
Please outline one for me.
A traffic jam is a traffic jam. That is how simple it is.
And you think a vaccine is going to sit in traffic? Don't be so naive!
So how else are vaccines plus the huge weight of refrigeration stuff that goes with them transported from where they are made to where they are needed? Budgie the Little Helicopter?
If Budgie the Little Helicopter is a nickname for the military I wasn't aware of then yes.
What did you think they'd do, send them off with a Hermes delivery truck?
Why not stop making it up as you go along, and research what you are talking about a bit. What have the military got to do with it, unless there is a parallel road and motorway system reserved for their use of which the public knows nothing, and unless there is a Royal Pharmaceutical Distribution Corps with all the relevant training, certification and incredibly expensive specialised vehicles and storage facilities, on standby? It's just classic brexitoid magical thinking to think that talk of "special couriers" gets round the fact that there is just the one road network. The one Hermes trucks use.
Helicopters use the road now?
I was unaware of that.
🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄
You really have lost this one. How many helicopters are there in the world capable of bulk transportation of refrigerated pharmaceuticals?
The Battersea helipad will be busy! Not sure it's quite up to the job though...
Really? You completely dismiss the possibility that the delivery of vaccine supplies could be compromised?
I cannot foresee any plausible circumstance where the delivery of vaccine supplies would be allowed to be compromised.
Please outline one for me.
A traffic jam is a traffic jam. That is how simple it is.
And you think a vaccine is going to sit in traffic? Don't be so naive!
So how else are vaccines plus the huge weight of refrigeration stuff that goes with them transported from where they are made to where they are needed? Budgie the Little Helicopter?
If Budgie the Little Helicopter is a nickname for the military I wasn't aware of then yes.
What did you think they'd do, send them off with a Hermes delivery truck?
Why not stop making it up as you go along, and research what you are talking about a bit. What have the military got to do with it, unless there is a parallel road and motorway system reserved for their use of which the public knows nothing, and unless there is a Royal Pharmaceutical Distribution Corps with all the relevant training, certification and incredibly expensive specialised vehicles and storage facilities, on standby? It's just classic brexitoid magical thinking to think that talk of "special couriers" gets round the fact that there is just the one road network. The one Hermes trucks use.
Helicopters use the road now?
I was unaware of that.
🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄
You really have lost this one. How many helicopters are there in the world capable of bulk transportation of refrigerated pharmaceuticals?
In October 1999, an Mi-26 was used to transport a 25-ton block of frozen soil encasing a preserved, 23,000-year-old woolly mammoth (Jarkov Mammoth) from the Siberian tundra to a lab in Khatanga, Taymyr. Due to the weight of the load, the Mi-26 had to be returned to the factory afterward to check for airframe and rotor warping caused by the potential of structural over-stressing.[6]"
These machines are a natural for bulk reefer transport, then. And we have so many of them. And all CEIV Pharma certified. Phew!
We don't need to worry about the vaccine - supplies will be flown in. It's not vaccine that we need to be concerned about, its food...
Food is OK. We can all eat the mountains of fish that we will no longer be able to export.
We can? In which factories are you planning to process all this fish so that it is in an edible format?
Surely we cook just gut them on the quayside? Sure, no part of Britain is far from the sea ...
Oh yes. I eat fish straight (or smoked) from the van fromk Eyemouth [small fishing port in the Borders]. But I do wonder about educating the public to do that rather than rely on fish fingers etc - not easy (and not very practical for many families).
I once helped show a Guide pack how to prepare some food from scratch. The number of girls that shrank away from raw meat was worrying - they were happy to eat it but they wanted nothing to do with touching it.
I kept the fresh mackerel in the fridge. I suspected that the cleaning and gutting session would not be a success
My father ran the local Venture Scout Unit for a while & decided that one weeks activity would be skinning, gutting & then cooking rabbit. The Scouts (male + female - Ventures were mixed) were all fine with this & the activity was enjoyed by all & photos were put up on the Venture notice board.
What they hadn’t accounted for was that the Scout hut was used by a nursery during the daytime & the impact on the small people was somewhat different - they really weren’t prepared for images of what had been done to these lovely fluffy bunnies.
Really? You completely dismiss the possibility that the delivery of vaccine supplies could be compromised?
I cannot foresee any plausible circumstance where the delivery of vaccine supplies would be allowed to be compromised.
Please outline one for me.
A traffic jam is a traffic jam. That is how simple it is.
And you think a vaccine is going to sit in traffic? Don't be so naive!
So how else are vaccines plus the huge weight of refrigeration stuff that goes with them transported from where they are made to where they are needed? Budgie the Little Helicopter?
If Budgie the Little Helicopter is a nickname for the military I wasn't aware of then yes.
What did you think they'd do, send them off with a Hermes delivery truck?
Why not stop making it up as you go along, and research what you are talking about a bit. What have the military got to do with it, unless there is a parallel road and motorway system reserved for their use of which the public knows nothing, and unless there is a Royal Pharmaceutical Distribution Corps with all the relevant training, certification and incredibly expensive specialised vehicles and storage facilities, on standby? It's just classic brexitoid magical thinking to think that talk of "special couriers" gets round the fact that there is just the one road network. The one Hermes trucks use.
Helicopters use the road now?
I was unaware of that.
🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄
You really have lost this one. How many helicopters are there in the world capable of bulk transportation of refrigerated pharmaceuticals?
The Battersea helipad will be busy! Not sure it's quite up to the job though...
I have already negotiated a contract with the govt to lease my Universe class interstellar transports to break customs logjams by lasering recalcitrant customs officials from Low Earth Orbit. Big Dom was my point of contact for this so I am wondering if the gig is still on?
Really? You completely dismiss the possibility that the delivery of vaccine supplies could be compromised?
I cannot foresee any plausible circumstance where the delivery of vaccine supplies would be allowed to be compromised.
Please outline one for me.
A traffic jam is a traffic jam. That is how simple it is.
And you think a vaccine is going to sit in traffic? Don't be so naive!
So how else are vaccines plus the huge weight of refrigeration stuff that goes with them transported from where they are made to where they are needed? Budgie the Little Helicopter?
If Budgie the Little Helicopter is a nickname for the military I wasn't aware of then yes.
What did you think they'd do, send them off with a Hermes delivery truck?
Why not stop making it up as you go along, and research what you are talking about a bit. What have the military got to do with it, unless there is a parallel road and motorway system reserved for their use of which the public knows nothing, and unless there is a Royal Pharmaceutical Distribution Corps with all the relevant training, certification and incredibly expensive specialised vehicles and storage facilities, on standby? It's just classic brexitoid magical thinking to think that talk of "special couriers" gets round the fact that there is just the one road network. The one Hermes trucks use.
Helicopters use the road now?
I was unaware of that.
🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄
You really have lost this one. How many helicopters are there in the world capable of bulk transportation of refrigerated pharmaceuticals?
In October 1999, an Mi-26 was used to transport a 25-ton block of frozen soil encasing a preserved, 23,000-year-old woolly mammoth (Jarkov Mammoth) from the Siberian tundra to a lab in Khatanga, Taymyr. Due to the weight of the load, the Mi-26 had to be returned to the factory afterward to check for airframe and rotor warping caused by the potential of structural over-stressing.[6]"
These machines are a natural for bulk reefer transport, then. And we have so many of them. And all CEIV Pharma certified. Phew!
Really? You completely dismiss the possibility that the delivery of vaccine supplies could be compromised?
I cannot foresee any plausible circumstance where the delivery of vaccine supplies would be allowed to be compromised.
Please outline one for me.
A traffic jam is a traffic jam. That is how simple it is.
And you think a vaccine is going to sit in traffic? Don't be so naive!
So how else are vaccines plus the huge weight of refrigeration stuff that goes with them transported from where they are made to where they are needed? Budgie the Little Helicopter?
If Budgie the Little Helicopter is a nickname for the military I wasn't aware of then yes.
What did you think they'd do, send them off with a Hermes delivery truck?
Why not stop making it up as you go along, and research what you are talking about a bit. What have the military got to do with it, unless there is a parallel road and motorway system reserved for their use of which the public knows nothing, and unless there is a Royal Pharmaceutical Distribution Corps with all the relevant training, certification and incredibly expensive specialised vehicles and storage facilities, on standby? It's just classic brexitoid magical thinking to think that talk of "special couriers" gets round the fact that there is just the one road network. The one Hermes trucks use.
Helicopters use the road now?
I was unaware of that.
🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄
You really have lost this one. How many helicopters are there in the world capable of bulk transportation of refrigerated pharmaceuticals?
In October 1999, an Mi-26 was used to transport a 25-ton block of frozen soil encasing a preserved, 23,000-year-old woolly mammoth (Jarkov Mammoth) from the Siberian tundra to a lab in Khatanga, Taymyr. Due to the weight of the load, the Mi-26 had to be returned to the factory afterward to check for airframe and rotor warping caused by the potential of structural over-stressing.[6]"
These machines are a natural for bulk reefer transport, then. And we have so many of them. And all CEIV Pharma certified. Phew!
Not to mention the worry that transportingf in non-qualified trucks and aircraft, like bales of straw for farmers in the snow., An absolute gift for the anti-vaxxers.
Really? You completely dismiss the possibility that the delivery of vaccine supplies could be compromised?
I cannot foresee any plausible circumstance where the delivery of vaccine supplies would be allowed to be compromised.
Please outline one for me.
A traffic jam is a traffic jam. That is how simple it is.
And you think a vaccine is going to sit in traffic? Don't be so naive!
So how else are vaccines plus the huge weight of refrigeration stuff that goes with them transported from where they are made to where they are needed? Budgie the Little Helicopter?
If Budgie the Little Helicopter is a nickname for the military I wasn't aware of then yes.
What did you think they'd do, send them off with a Hermes delivery truck?
Why not stop making it up as you go along, and research what you are talking about a bit. What have the military got to do with it, unless there is a parallel road and motorway system reserved for their use of which the public knows nothing, and unless there is a Royal Pharmaceutical Distribution Corps with all the relevant training, certification and incredibly expensive specialised vehicles and storage facilities, on standby? It's just classic brexitoid magical thinking to think that talk of "special couriers" gets round the fact that there is just the one road network. The one Hermes trucks use.
Helicopters use the road now?
I was unaware of that.
🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄
You really have lost this one. How many helicopters are there in the world capable of bulk transportation of refrigerated pharmaceuticals?
They've already said it's going to be flown in by the military.
Whether it's via Chinooks or other aircraft is rather immaterial the fact is that it's not going via Felixstowe. It's not going to be sat in traffic jams.
You think you're being clever but you clearly haven't paid attention so are inventing your own Project Fear bullshit. It's as mad as the rest of Project Fear.
We don't need to worry about the vaccine - supplies will be flown in. It's not vaccine that we need to be concerned about, its food...
Food is OK. We can all eat the mountains of fish that we will no longer be able to export.
We can? In which factories are you planning to process all this fish so that it is in an edible format?
Surely we cook just gut them on the quayside? Sure, no part of Britain is far from the sea ...
Oh yes. I eat fish straight (or smoked) from the van fromk Eyemouth [small fishing port in the Borders]. But I do wonder about educating the public to do that rather than rely on fish fingers etc - not easy (and not very practical for many families).
I once helped show a Guide pack how to prepare some food from scratch. The number of girls that shrank away from raw meat was worrying - they were happy to eat it but they wanted nothing to do with touching it.
I kept the fresh mackerel in the fridge. I suspected that the cleaning and gutting session would not be a success
My father ran the local Venture Scout Unit for a while & decided that one weeks activity would be skinning, gutting & then cooking rabbit. The Scouts (male + female - Ventures were mixed) were all fine with this & the activity was enjoyed by all & photos were put up on the Venture notice board.
What they hadn’t accounted for was that the Scout hut was used by a nursery during the daytime & the impact on the small people was somewhat different - they really weren’t prepared for images of what had been done to these lovely fluffy bunnies.
Really? You completely dismiss the possibility that the delivery of vaccine supplies could be compromised?
I cannot foresee any plausible circumstance where the delivery of vaccine supplies would be allowed to be compromised.
Please outline one for me.
A traffic jam is a traffic jam. That is how simple it is.
And you think a vaccine is going to sit in traffic? Don't be so naive!
I'm intrigued. How will it get out of a traffic jam when it's caught in one? Does it grow wings and fly?
To be fair if we are going down the pedantry route:
PT doesn't say it will get out of a traffic jam, he says it wont sit in one, afaik sitting is not something a vaccine does. And everything eventually gets out of the traffic jam, rarely is it by growing wings and flying.
Really? You completely dismiss the possibility that the delivery of vaccine supplies could be compromised?
I cannot foresee any plausible circumstance where the delivery of vaccine supplies would be allowed to be compromised.
Please outline one for me.
A traffic jam is a traffic jam. That is how simple it is.
And you think a vaccine is going to sit in traffic? Don't be so naive!
So how else are vaccines plus the huge weight of refrigeration stuff that goes with them transported from where they are made to where they are needed? Budgie the Little Helicopter?
If Budgie the Little Helicopter is a nickname for the military I wasn't aware of then yes.
What did you think they'd do, send them off with a Hermes delivery truck?
Why not stop making it up as you go along, and research what you are talking about a bit. What have the military got to do with it, unless there is a parallel road and motorway system reserved for their use of which the public knows nothing, and unless there is a Royal Pharmaceutical Distribution Corps with all the relevant training, certification and incredibly expensive specialised vehicles and storage facilities, on standby? It's just classic brexitoid magical thinking to think that talk of "special couriers" gets round the fact that there is just the one road network. The one Hermes trucks use.
Helicopters use the road now?
I was unaware of that.
🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄
You really have lost this one. How many helicopters are there in the world capable of bulk transportation of refrigerated pharmaceuticals?
They've already said it's going to be flown in by the military.
Whether it's via Chinooks or other aircraft is rather immaterial the fact is that it's not going via Felixstowe. It's not going to be sat in traffic jams.
You think you're being clever but you clearly haven't paid attention so are inventing your own Project Fear bullshit. It's as mad as the rest of Project Fear.
🙄🙄🙄🙄
Will that be the case for all medicines that we import from the rest of the world, or just the vaccine in your mind ?
I also believe such disruptions are less likely...
Do you believe in the Great Flying Spaghetti Monster too?
Just because you believe something does not mean that reality will listen and obey.
Its alt-fact lunacy. *Any* delay at all vs the current c. 2mins crossing time creates a huge blockage which gums the whole thing completely. The new computer system to manage customs doesn't exist. The old computer system can't handle the number of transactions. The people needed to process the transactions on the computer system that either doesn't yet exist or can't handle them don't exist.
On 1st January 2021 we either maintain the status quo. Or everything stops. What Philip is saying is literal wishful thinking that is demolished by the facts on the ground and not shared by anyone who is actually involved in the actual business of logistics.
What I'm saying is shared by people in the actual business of logistics though.
Plenty of people in the actual business have gone on TV and said eg for major grocery retailers that they are confident they can cope and will have food on the shelves either way even if there is some disruption.
Please quote anyone in the actual business saying their actual business is going to collapse and not cope? Because I've not seen one person say that yet besides terrified scaremongers.
Is the sky green over your head? Sainsbury's. This Tuesday. At their annual trade conference. "We don't know how we're going to trade on 1st January. There is no agreement across the EU, which affects our supply and logistics, nor are there trade agreements with most of the rest of the world".
Over in Norniron - which is the UK despite Shagger not thinking it is - all of the major UK supermarkets are warning shoppers that literally thousands of products may be unavailable due to the technical challenge of trying to import short life fresh food through the GB/NI border. Remember that the UK government cannot tell Sainsbury's or any of the rest of them what paperwork they will need to ship GB to NI.
Any disruption. At all. And everything stops. That is reality. According to the people on the ground.
Saying they don't know how they're going to trade is not saying they won't be able to trade.
I also believe such disruptions are less likely...
Do you believe in the Great Flying Spaghetti Monster too?
Just because you believe something does not mean that reality will listen and obey.
Its alt-fact lunacy. *Any* delay at all vs the current c. 2mins crossing time creates a huge blockage which gums the whole thing completely. The new computer system to manage customs doesn't exist. The old computer system can't handle the number of transactions. The people needed to process the transactions on the computer system that either doesn't yet exist or can't handle them don't exist.
On 1st January 2021 we either maintain the status quo. Or everything stops. What Philip is saying is literal wishful thinking that is demolished by the facts on the ground and not shared by anyone who is actually involved in the actual business of logistics.
What I'm saying is shared by people in the actual business of logistics though.
Plenty of people in the actual business have gone on TV and said eg for major grocery retailers that they are confident they can cope and will have food on the shelves either way even if there is some disruption.
Please quote anyone in the actual business saying their actual business is going to collapse and not cope? Because I've not seen one person say that yet besides terrified scaremongers.
Is the sky green over your head? Sainsbury's. This Tuesday. At their annual trade conference. "We don't know how we're going to trade on 1st January. There is no agreement across the EU, which affects our supply and logistics, nor are there trade agreements with most of the rest of the world".
Over in Norniron - which is the UK despite Shagger not thinking it is - all of the major UK supermarkets are warning shoppers that literally thousands of products may be unavailable due to the technical challenge of trying to import short life fresh food through the GB/NI border. Remember that the UK government cannot tell Sainsbury's or any of the rest of them what paperwork they will need to ship GB to NI.
Any disruption. At all. And everything stops. That is reality. According to the people on the ground.
Saying they don't know how they're going to trade is not saying they won't be able to trade.
They did say they very possibly won't be able to trade. Not just not knowing.
Couldn't we fill a chinook with those without needing the chinook to be CEIV Pharma certified?
This is a bit like the (in)famous Straits of Hormuz discussion on PB, but I'm not sure about your neck of the woods, but the GP surgeries I know don't have the space for a Chinook to land nearby.
A cop-out by Mrs Tice? It must already be a done deal
She's a contraindicator.
Expecting to find out what's happening from her is like asking Laura Pidcock her opinion.
Laura Pidcock, as far as I am aware, does not share pillow talk with Richard "Mr Brexit" Tice.
You missed the point.
Tice/Oaleshott have no greater insight into what is going on than other fruitcakes, nuts and loons like Pidcock etc.
Her ramblings are meaningless.
No I didn't!
I look forward to you defending Johnson's inspirational wisdom in calling for a Covid-19 justified transition extension when Boris makes the announcement.
A transition to a defined endpoint, a genuine transition or implementation period is entirely reasonable. But then the negotiations will have finished.
An extension without defining the end point is insanity and I will not support that.
And yet the UK government has repeatedly said "we must have a deal by X or we will call off the talks and prepare for no deal". X has variously been July, the end of the Summer, 15 October...
And yet, he's never pushed the button. Never said to the UK, "Stiffen the sinews, folks, this is what we need to do." Despite the fact that the more prep, the better. That should tell you something.
It certainly does. It confirms that there is no intention at all to do no deal. Whatever the theoretical merits it risks irrecoverable political disaster, including factory closures, food queues and all that, whereas any deal of any sort gives Boris until 2024 to recover his position. That's a long time when a week is a long time.
Yes, Desert Island Discs this morning was quite interesting. Although with the precision of a barrister, it was only described as a flat above a a "massage parlour" that operated "interesting hours".
Keir Starmer came across well throughout. Those listening should have warmed to him, if they haven't already.
An extension is the path of least resistance. Johnson just needs to make it look like the EU has backed down.
Get 'No Change But With The Option For Future Divergence' Brexit Done!
It's always been the case that change would be incremental over the future. Remember pretty much the entire body of EU law was adopted as domestic law as part of the Withdrawal Act.
It's having the option for future divergence, unilaterally controlled by our sovereign Parliament, that is the key issue.
If the option to diverge is more important than diverging it follows with similar cast-iron logic that the option to leave was more important than leaving. The option to leave was the important thing. Which we had. We had the option to leave. We demonstrated this by doing so. But we did not need to prove it. It was always clear that we could leave. And given we could we did not need to. This is maths not politics. Brexit = Waste of Time. QED.
I also believe such disruptions are less likely...
Do you believe in the Great Flying Spaghetti Monster too?
Just because you believe something does not mean that reality will listen and obey.
Anyone still believing the glib assurances of the Brexiteers hasn't been paying attention for the last 4 years.
I was and am a Remainer but when Leave won I assumed that they knew what they were doing I assumed that there was some sort of plan to deliver the things they promised in order to win the referendum. I couldn't have been more wrong.
I am afraid I always knew there was no plan simply because nothing they said was backed by fact. It was all "You'll see" and "I believe" and "They need us and our money". In short, belief over reality.
I thought we had moved past that sort of thinking in the 18th Century, but alas... it is back to haunt us
I also believe such disruptions are less likely...
Do you believe in the Great Flying Spaghetti Monster too?
Just because you believe something does not mean that reality will listen and obey.
Its alt-fact lunacy. *Any* delay at all vs the current c. 2mins crossing time creates a huge blockage which gums the whole thing completely. The new computer system to manage customs doesn't exist. The old computer system can't handle the number of transactions. The people needed to process the transactions on the computer system that either doesn't yet exist or can't handle them don't exist.
On 1st January 2021 we either maintain the status quo. Or everything stops. What Philip is saying is literal wishful thinking that is demolished by the facts on the ground and not shared by anyone who is actually involved in the actual business of logistics.
What I'm saying is shared by people in the actual business of logistics though.
Plenty of people in the actual business have gone on TV and said eg for major grocery retailers that they are confident they can cope and will have food on the shelves either way even if there is some disruption.
Please quote anyone in the actual business saying their actual business is going to collapse and not cope? Because I've not seen one person say that yet besides terrified scaremongers.
Is the sky green over your head? Sainsbury's. This Tuesday. At their annual trade conference. "We don't know how we're going to trade on 1st January. There is no agreement across the EU, which affects our supply and logistics, nor are there trade agreements with most of the rest of the world".
Over in Norniron - which is the UK despite Shagger not thinking it is - all of the major UK supermarkets are warning shoppers that literally thousands of products may be unavailable due to the technical challenge of trying to import short life fresh food through the GB/NI border. Remember that the UK government cannot tell Sainsbury's or any of the rest of them what paperwork they will need to ship GB to NI.
Any disruption. At all. And everything stops. That is reality. According to the people on the ground.
Saying they don't know how they're going to trade is not saying they won't be able to trade.
Yes, and warning lights flashing all over the cockpit doesn't mean the plane is going down, but it's the kind of thing you might see before such an event.
Couldn't we fill a chinook with those without needing the chinook to be CEIV Pharma certified?
This is a bit like the (in)famous Straits of Hormuz discussion on PB, but I'm not sure about your neck of the woods, but the GP surgeries I know don't have the space for a Chinook to land nearby.
We don't get many Brexit traffic jams between the local RAF bases and the surgeries in my neck of the woods.
I also believe such disruptions are less likely...
Do you believe in the Great Flying Spaghetti Monster too?
Just because you believe something does not mean that reality will listen and obey.
Its alt-fact lunacy. *Any* delay at all vs the current c. 2mins crossing time creates a huge blockage which gums the whole thing completely. The new computer system to manage customs doesn't exist. The old computer system can't handle the number of transactions. The people needed to process the transactions on the computer system that either doesn't yet exist or can't handle them don't exist.
On 1st January 2021 we either maintain the status quo. Or everything stops. What Philip is saying is literal wishful thinking that is demolished by the facts on the ground and not shared by anyone who is actually involved in the actual business of logistics.
What I'm saying is shared by people in the actual business of logistics though.
Plenty of people in the actual business have gone on TV and said eg for major grocery retailers that they are confident they can cope and will have food on the shelves either way even if there is some disruption.
Please quote anyone in the actual business saying their actual business is going to collapse and not cope? Because I've not seen one person say that yet besides terrified scaremongers.
Is the sky green over your head? Sainsbury's. This Tuesday. At their annual trade conference. "We don't know how we're going to trade on 1st January. There is no agreement across the EU, which affects our supply and logistics, nor are there trade agreements with most of the rest of the world".
Over in Norniron - which is the UK despite Shagger not thinking it is - all of the major UK supermarkets are warning shoppers that literally thousands of products may be unavailable due to the technical challenge of trying to import short life fresh food through the GB/NI border. Remember that the UK government cannot tell Sainsbury's or any of the rest of them what paperwork they will need to ship GB to NI.
Any disruption. At all. And everything stops. That is reality. According to the people on the ground.
Saying they don't know how they're going to trade is not saying they won't be able to trade.
They did say they very possibly won't be able to trade. Not just not knowing.
So basically the entire claimed purpose of the "breaking international law" clauses in the IMB is to prevent the EU playing silly buggers with food supply to Northern Ireland. Something that we will have problems with irrespective of what the EU do in a no deal (or even possibly a deal) situation.
Really? You completely dismiss the possibility that the delivery of vaccine supplies could be compromised?
I cannot foresee any plausible circumstance where the delivery of vaccine supplies would be allowed to be compromised.
Please outline one for me.
A traffic jam is a traffic jam. That is how simple it is.
And you think a vaccine is going to sit in traffic? Don't be so naive!
So how else are vaccines plus the huge weight of refrigeration stuff that goes with them transported from where they are made to where they are needed? Budgie the Little Helicopter?
If Budgie the Little Helicopter is a nickname for the military I wasn't aware of then yes.
What did you think they'd do, send them off with a Hermes delivery truck?
Why not stop making it up as you go along, and research what you are talking about a bit. What have the military got to do with it, unless there is a parallel road and motorway system reserved for their use of which the public knows nothing, and unless there is a Royal Pharmaceutical Distribution Corps with all the relevant training, certification and incredibly expensive specialised vehicles and storage facilities, on standby? It's just classic brexitoid magical thinking to think that talk of "special couriers" gets round the fact that there is just the one road network. The one Hermes trucks use.
Helicopters use the road now?
I was unaware of that.
🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄
You really have lost this one. How many helicopters are there in the world capable of bulk transportation of refrigerated pharmaceuticals?
In October 1999, an Mi-26 was used to transport a 25-ton block of frozen soil encasing a preserved, 23,000-year-old woolly mammoth (Jarkov Mammoth) from the Siberian tundra to a lab in Khatanga, Taymyr. Due to the weight of the load, the Mi-26 had to be returned to the factory afterward to check for airframe and rotor warping caused by the potential of structural over-stressing.[6]"
These machines are a natural for bulk reefer transport, then. And we have so many of them. And all CEIV Pharma certified. Phew!
Couldn't we fill a chinook with those without needing the chinook to be CEIV Pharma certified?
Possibly. There must be a retail distribution level at which the requirement disappears. But we are talking here about distributing literally hundreds of millions of doses, not a one-off mercy dash to, say, an orphanage in the Shetlands.
Really? You completely dismiss the possibility that the delivery of vaccine supplies could be compromised?
I cannot foresee any plausible circumstance where the delivery of vaccine supplies would be allowed to be compromised.
Please outline one for me.
A traffic jam is a traffic jam. That is how simple it is.
And you think a vaccine is going to sit in traffic? Don't be so naive!
So how else are vaccines plus the huge weight of refrigeration stuff that goes with them transported from where they are made to where they are needed? Budgie the Little Helicopter?
If Budgie the Little Helicopter is a nickname for the military I wasn't aware of then yes.
What did you think they'd do, send them off with a Hermes delivery truck?
Why not stop making it up as you go along, and research what you are talking about a bit. What have the military got to do with it, unless there is a parallel road and motorway system reserved for their use of which the public knows nothing, and unless there is a Royal Pharmaceutical Distribution Corps with all the relevant training, certification and incredibly expensive specialised vehicles and storage facilities, on standby? It's just classic brexitoid magical thinking to think that talk of "special couriers" gets round the fact that there is just the one road network. The one Hermes trucks use.
Helicopters use the road now?
I was unaware of that.
🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄
You really have lost this one. How many helicopters are there in the world capable of bulk transportation of refrigerated pharmaceuticals?
They've already said it's going to be flown in by the military.
Whether it's via Chinooks or other aircraft is rather immaterial the fact is that it's not going via Felixstowe. It's not going to be sat in traffic jams.
You think you're being clever but you clearly haven't paid attention so are inventing your own Project Fear bullshit. It's as mad as the rest of Project Fear.
🙄🙄🙄🙄
In other words, their actions, and yours too, have caused a crisis of the kind which attracts the kind of solution normally confimed to a natural disaster or a major armed attack or insurgency.
Of courtse the bug is a disaster - but so is the way in which the solution to it is being handled. Your lkot are the McGonagalls of modern politics - they come along and makje a natural disaster twice as bad.
I also believe such disruptions are less likely...
Do you believe in the Great Flying Spaghetti Monster too?
Just because you believe something does not mean that reality will listen and obey.
Its alt-fact lunacy. *Any* delay at all vs the current c. 2mins crossing time creates a huge blockage which gums the whole thing completely. The new computer system to manage customs doesn't exist. The old computer system can't handle the number of transactions. The people needed to process the transactions on the computer system that either doesn't yet exist or can't handle them don't exist.
On 1st January 2021 we either maintain the status quo. Or everything stops. What Philip is saying is literal wishful thinking that is demolished by the facts on the ground and not shared by anyone who is actually involved in the actual business of logistics.
What I'm saying is shared by people in the actual business of logistics though.
Plenty of people in the actual business have gone on TV and said eg for major grocery retailers that they are confident they can cope and will have food on the shelves either way even if there is some disruption.
Please quote anyone in the actual business saying their actual business is going to collapse and not cope? Because I've not seen one person say that yet besides terrified scaremongers.
Is the sky green over your head? Sainsbury's. This Tuesday. At their annual trade conference. "We don't know how we're going to trade on 1st January. There is no agreement across the EU, which affects our supply and logistics, nor are there trade agreements with most of the rest of the world".
Over in Norniron - which is the UK despite Shagger not thinking it is - all of the major UK supermarkets are warning shoppers that literally thousands of products may be unavailable due to the technical challenge of trying to import short life fresh food through the GB/NI border. Remember that the UK government cannot tell Sainsbury's or any of the rest of them what paperwork they will need to ship GB to NI.
Any disruption. At all. And everything stops. That is reality. According to the people on the ground.
Saying they don't know how they're going to trade is not saying they won't be able to trade.
Yes, and warning lights flashing all over the cockpit doesn't mean the plane is going down, but it's the kind of thing you might see before such an event.
Press the "Master Caution Reset" to switch them off. Everything will be OK if no alarms are going off...
Of course Johnson won't improve. But your betting tip assumes that it won't be that Con MPs soon come to take their leader to have improved, and for their new opinion of him then to last a little while. Anyway I've cashed out on my bet for him to leave office in 2021. But I put the bet on a while ago, so that I've won more in cashing out than will those who bet today at the 13/8 you quote.
I also believe such disruptions are less likely...
Do you believe in the Great Flying Spaghetti Monster too?
Just because you believe something does not mean that reality will listen and obey.
Its alt-fact lunacy. *Any* delay at all vs the current c. 2mins crossing time creates a huge blockage which gums the whole thing completely. The new computer system to manage customs doesn't exist. The old computer system can't handle the number of transactions. The people needed to process the transactions on the computer system that either doesn't yet exist or can't handle them don't exist.
On 1st January 2021 we either maintain the status quo. Or everything stops. What Philip is saying is literal wishful thinking that is demolished by the facts on the ground and not shared by anyone who is actually involved in the actual business of logistics.
What I'm saying is shared by people in the actual business of logistics though.
Plenty of people in the actual business have gone on TV and said eg for major grocery retailers that they are confident they can cope and will have food on the shelves either way even if there is some disruption.
Please quote anyone in the actual business saying their actual business is going to collapse and not cope? Because I've not seen one person say that yet besides terrified scaremongers.
Is the sky green over your head? Sainsbury's. This Tuesday. At their annual trade conference. "We don't know how we're going to trade on 1st January. There is no agreement across the EU, which affects our supply and logistics, nor are there trade agreements with most of the rest of the world".
Over in Norniron - which is the UK despite Shagger not thinking it is - all of the major UK supermarkets are warning shoppers that literally thousands of products may be unavailable due to the technical challenge of trying to import short life fresh food through the GB/NI border. Remember that the UK government cannot tell Sainsbury's or any of the rest of them what paperwork they will need to ship GB to NI.
Any disruption. At all. And everything stops. That is reality. According to the people on the ground.
Saying they don't know how they're going to trade is not saying they won't be able to trade.
Indeed. There is still hope that the UK caves and the status quo continues. Otherwise they have already laid out what will happen. Nothing - as in food not being delivered to shops as they don't have any to deliver.
Really? You completely dismiss the possibility that the delivery of vaccine supplies could be compromised?
I cannot foresee any plausible circumstance where the delivery of vaccine supplies would be allowed to be compromised.
Please outline one for me.
A traffic jam is a traffic jam. That is how simple it is.
And you think a vaccine is going to sit in traffic? Don't be so naive!
So how else are vaccines plus the huge weight of refrigeration stuff that goes with them transported from where they are made to where they are needed? Budgie the Little Helicopter?
If Budgie the Little Helicopter is a nickname for the military I wasn't aware of then yes.
What did you think they'd do, send them off with a Hermes delivery truck?
Why not stop making it up as you go along, and research what you are talking about a bit. What have the military got to do with it, unless there is a parallel road and motorway system reserved for their use of which the public knows nothing, and unless there is a Royal Pharmaceutical Distribution Corps with all the relevant training, certification and incredibly expensive specialised vehicles and storage facilities, on standby? It's just classic brexitoid magical thinking to think that talk of "special couriers" gets round the fact that there is just the one road network. The one Hermes trucks use.
Helicopters use the road now?
I was unaware of that.
🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄
You really have lost this one. How many helicopters are there in the world capable of bulk transportation of refrigerated pharmaceuticals?
They've already said it's going to be flown in by the military.
Whether it's via Chinooks or other aircraft is rather immaterial the fact is that it's not going via Felixstowe. It's not going to be sat in traffic jams.
You think you're being clever but you clearly haven't paid attention so are inventing your own Project Fear bullshit. It's as mad as the rest of Project Fear.
🙄🙄🙄🙄
In other words, their actions, and yours too, have caused a crisis of the kind which attracts the kind of solution normally confimed to a natural disaster or a major armed attack or insurgency.
Of courtse the bug is a disaster - but so is the way in which the solution to it is being handled. Your lkot are the McGonagalls of modern politics - they come along and makje a natural disaster twice as bad.
Do you think if we'd voted to stay in the EU, the vaccine would have been shipped on trucks through Dover with no risk of non-Brexit traffic jams?
I don't see how the Government can shift the "blame" for bad consequences of no deal on to the EU (as if who to blame is all that matters) when the Government (the Prime Minister no less) have told us clearly that the "Australia" option will be an excellent outcome for our country.
Or are they going to claim that the EU reneged on the Australia option at the last minute and drove us into no deal that nobody wanted?
Couldn't we fill a chinook with those without needing the chinook to be CEIV Pharma certified?
This is a bit like the (in)famous Straits of Hormuz discussion on PB, but I'm not sure about your neck of the woods, but the GP surgeries I know don't have the space for a Chinook to land nearby.
Why would they need one?
The worry supposedly was coming in via Felixstowe, which it's not going to do, it's going to be flown in.
Once it is in it will be able to be distributed by the military simply, it will have already gone past the supposed traffic jam.
If the military need to clear a path to get to a GPs surgery they will be able to do so. But that is implausible.
Really? You completely dismiss the possibility that the delivery of vaccine supplies could be compromised?
I cannot foresee any plausible circumstance where the delivery of vaccine supplies would be allowed to be compromised.
Please outline one for me.
A traffic jam is a traffic jam. That is how simple it is.
And you think a vaccine is going to sit in traffic? Don't be so naive!
So how else are vaccines plus the huge weight of refrigeration stuff that goes with them transported from where they are made to where they are needed? Budgie the Little Helicopter?
If Budgie the Little Helicopter is a nickname for the military I wasn't aware of then yes.
What did you think they'd do, send them off with a Hermes delivery truck?
Why not stop making it up as you go along, and research what you are talking about a bit. What have the military got to do with it, unless there is a parallel road and motorway system reserved for their use of which the public knows nothing, and unless there is a Royal Pharmaceutical Distribution Corps with all the relevant training, certification and incredibly expensive specialised vehicles and storage facilities, on standby? It's just classic brexitoid magical thinking to think that talk of "special couriers" gets round the fact that there is just the one road network. The one Hermes trucks use.
Helicopters use the road now?
I was unaware of that.
🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄
You really have lost this one. How many helicopters are there in the world capable of bulk transportation of refrigerated pharmaceuticals?
They've already said it's going to be flown in by the military.
Whether it's via Chinooks or other aircraft is rather immaterial the fact is that it's not going via Felixstowe. It's not going to be sat in traffic jams.
You think you're being clever but you clearly haven't paid attention so are inventing your own Project Fear bullshit. It's as mad as the rest of Project Fear.
🙄🙄🙄🙄
In other words, their actions, and yours too, have caused a crisis of the kind which attracts the kind of solution normally confimed to a natural disaster or a major armed attack or insurgency.
Of courtse the bug is a disaster - but so is the way in which the solution to it is being handled. Your lkot are the McGonagalls of modern politics - they come along and makje a natural disaster twice as bad.
No, COVID19 is the natural disaster and the military are going to treat the vaccine as a precious matter of national security. Regardless of Brexit.
I also believe such disruptions are less likely...
Do you believe in the Great Flying Spaghetti Monster too?
Just because you believe something does not mean that reality will listen and obey.
Its alt-fact lunacy. *Any* delay at all vs the current c. 2mins crossing time creates a huge blockage which gums the whole thing completely. The new computer system to manage customs doesn't exist. The old computer system can't handle the number of transactions. The people needed to process the transactions on the computer system that either doesn't yet exist or can't handle them don't exist.
On 1st January 2021 we either maintain the status quo. Or everything stops. What Philip is saying is literal wishful thinking that is demolished by the facts on the ground and not shared by anyone who is actually involved in the actual business of logistics.
What I'm saying is shared by people in the actual business of logistics though.
Plenty of people in the actual business have gone on TV and said eg for major grocery retailers that they are confident they can cope and will have food on the shelves either way even if there is some disruption.
Please quote anyone in the actual business saying their actual business is going to collapse and not cope? Because I've not seen one person say that yet besides terrified scaremongers.
Is the sky green over your head? Sainsbury's. This Tuesday. At their annual trade conference. "We don't know how we're going to trade on 1st January. There is no agreement across the EU, which affects our supply and logistics, nor are there trade agreements with most of the rest of the world".
Over in Norniron - which is the UK despite Shagger not thinking it is - all of the major UK supermarkets are warning shoppers that literally thousands of products may be unavailable due to the technical challenge of trying to import short life fresh food through the GB/NI border. Remember that the UK government cannot tell Sainsbury's or any of the rest of them what paperwork they will need to ship GB to NI.
Any disruption. At all. And everything stops. That is reality. According to the people on the ground.
Saying they don't know how they're going to trade is not saying they won't be able to trade.
Indeed. There is still hope that the UK caves and the status quo continues. Otherwise they have already laid out what will happen. Nothing - as in food not being delivered to shops as they don't have any to deliver.
Really? You completely dismiss the possibility that the delivery of vaccine supplies could be compromised?
I cannot foresee any plausible circumstance where the delivery of vaccine supplies would be allowed to be compromised.
Please outline one for me.
A traffic jam is a traffic jam. That is how simple it is.
And you think a vaccine is going to sit in traffic? Don't be so naive!
So how else are vaccines plus the huge weight of refrigeration stuff that goes with them transported from where they are made to where they are needed? Budgie the Little Helicopter?
If Budgie the Little Helicopter is a nickname for the military I wasn't aware of then yes.
What did you think they'd do, send them off with a Hermes delivery truck?
Why not stop making it up as you go along, and research what you are talking about a bit. What have the military got to do with it, unless there is a parallel road and motorway system reserved for their use of which the public knows nothing, and unless there is a Royal Pharmaceutical Distribution Corps with all the relevant training, certification and incredibly expensive specialised vehicles and storage facilities, on standby? It's just classic brexitoid magical thinking to think that talk of "special couriers" gets round the fact that there is just the one road network. The one Hermes trucks use.
Helicopters use the road now?
I was unaware of that.
🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄
You really have lost this one. How many helicopters are there in the world capable of bulk transportation of refrigerated pharmaceuticals?
They've already said it's going to be flown in by the military.
Whether it's via Chinooks or other aircraft is rather immaterial the fact is that it's not going via Felixstowe. It's not going to be sat in traffic jams.
You think you're being clever but you clearly haven't paid attention so are inventing your own Project Fear bullshit. It's as mad as the rest of Project Fear.
🙄🙄🙄🙄
In other words, their actions, and yours too, have caused a crisis of the kind which attracts the kind of solution normally confimed to a natural disaster or a major armed attack or insurgency.
Of courtse the bug is a disaster - but so is the way in which the solution to it is being handled. Your lkot are the McGonagalls of modern politics - they come along and makje a natural disaster twice as bad.
No, COVID19 is the natural disaster and the military are going to treat the vaccine as a precious matter of national security. Regardless of Brexit.
A cop-out by Mrs Tice? It must already be a done deal
She's a contraindicator.
Expecting to find out what's happening from her is like asking Laura Pidcock her opinion.
Laura Pidcock, as far as I am aware, does not share pillow talk with Richard "Mr Brexit" Tice.
You missed the point.
Tice/Oaleshott have no greater insight into what is going on than other fruitcakes, nuts and loons like Pidcock etc.
Her ramblings are meaningless.
No I didn't!
I look forward to you defending Johnson's inspirational wisdom in calling for a Covid-19 justified transition extension when Boris makes the announcement.
A transition to a defined endpoint, a genuine transition or implementation period is entirely reasonable. But then the negotiations will have finished.
An extension without defining the end point is insanity and I will not support that.
And yet the UK government has repeatedly said "we must have a deal by X or we will call off the talks and prepare for no deal". X has variously been July, the end of the Summer, 15 October...
And yet, he's never pushed the button. Never said to the UK, "Stiffen the sinews, folks, this is what we need to do." Despite the fact that the more prep, the better. That should tell you something.
That talks are ongoing and it ain't over until the fat lady sings.
A deal could be ratified 31/12/20.
The problem with that reasoning is that the longer you leave it, the more damage is done and the more the economy prepares itself for no deal, and so the benefits of getting a deal decline and a deal becomes less likely. In other words, a deal in late December is actually quite unlikely. I'm surprised someone so expert in trade negotiations, customs and border logistics didn't know that.
I don't see how the Government can shift the "blame" for bad consequences of no deal on to the EU (as if who to blame is all that matters) when the Government (the Prime Minister no less) have told us clearly that the "Australia" option will be an excellent outcome for our country.
Or are they going to claim that the EU reneged on the Australia option at the last minute and drove us into no deal that nobody wanted?
Who can guess what lies Johnson will come up with in January to try an explain away the empty shelves.
A cop-out by Mrs Tice? It must already be a done deal
She's a contraindicator.
Expecting to find out what's happening from her is like asking Laura Pidcock her opinion.
Laura Pidcock, as far as I am aware, does not share pillow talk with Richard "Mr Brexit" Tice.
You missed the point.
Tice/Oaleshott have no greater insight into what is going on than other fruitcakes, nuts and loons like Pidcock etc.
Her ramblings are meaningless.
No I didn't!
I look forward to you defending Johnson's inspirational wisdom in calling for a Covid-19 justified transition extension when Boris makes the announcement.
A transition to a defined endpoint, a genuine transition or implementation period is entirely reasonable. But then the negotiations will have finished.
An extension without defining the end point is insanity and I will not support that.
And yet the UK government has repeatedly said "we must have a deal by X or we will call off the talks and prepare for no deal". X has variously been July, the end of the Summer, 15 October...
And yet, he's never pushed the button. Never said to the UK, "Stiffen the sinews, folks, this is what we need to do." Despite the fact that the more prep, the better. That should tell you something.
It certainly does. It confirms that there is no intention at all to do no deal. Whatever the theoretical merits it risks irrecoverable political disaster, including factory closures, food queues and all that, whereas any deal of any sort gives Boris until 2024 to recover his position. That's a long time when a week is a long time.
I agree. This transparent nonsense from No 10 that Johnson is the "hardman" on Brexit made me smile. They've very little left in their hand.
If I were the EU I would say "If you re-introduce the Internal Markets Bill with Articles 5 and 6 still in it, the talks are immediately off. Period." Cripes.
I'd follow it through (if Ireland are prepared to) and bear a month of chaos in January until the UK come back to the table, cap in hand, and minus Articles 5 and 6. A salutary lesson.
An extension is the path of least resistance. Johnson just needs to make it look like the EU has backed down.
Get 'No Change But With The Option For Future Divergence' Brexit Done!
It's always been the case that change would be incremental over the future. Remember pretty much the entire body of EU law was adopted as domestic law as part of the Withdrawal Act.
It's having the option for future divergence, unilaterally controlled by our sovereign Parliament, that is the key issue.
If the option to diverge is more important than diverging it follows with similar cast-iron logic that the option to leave was more important than leaving. The option to leave was the important thing. Which we had. We had the option to leave. We demonstrated this by doing so. But we did not need to prove it. It was always clear that we could leave. And given we could we did not need to. This is maths not politics. Brexit = Waste of Time. QED.
No, because the option to diverge will be followed by increasing amounts of actual divergence. Some have already been announced that will apply from 1/1/21 and more will follow as time goes on.
So yes the option to diverge is followed up with actual divergence. The option to leave is followed up with actually leaving. Maths not politics. Your maths. QED, I win.
Couldn't we fill a chinook with those without needing the chinook to be CEIV Pharma certified?
This whole discussion is fucking mental. A wokka can carry about 8 tons over a distance of about 250km and RAF have about 20-30 that work. If the distribution of the vaccine relies on Chinooks (unpressurised and vibrates like fuck) we are all dead.
PT, in common with many Brexit enthusiasts, assumes that anything he doesn't understand must be simple.
I don't see how the Government can shift the "blame" for bad consequences of no deal on to the EU (as if who to blame is all that matters) when the Government (the Prime Minister no less) have told us clearly that the "Australia" option will be an excellent outcome for our country.
Or are they going to claim that the EU reneged on the Australia option at the last minute and drove us into no deal that nobody wanted?
Who can guess what lies Johnson will come up with in January to try an explain away the empty shelves.
What has being woke got to do with climate change? Or has woke been redefined to just mean anything that elderly rural reactionaries get themselves into a lather about?
Woke is becoming like "politically correct", and in losing its specificity. That's very silly for the Right to do.
It's just right wing virtue signalling. Or whatever the equivalent is for people who aren't virtuous.
VICE SEMAPHORING
Aldis Lamp Arseholing for the true Brexiteer nostalgist.
Couldn't we fill a chinook with those without needing the chinook to be CEIV Pharma certified?
This whole discussion is fucking mental. A wokka can carry about 8 tons over a distance of about 250km and RAF have about 20-30 that work. If the distribution of the vaccine relies on Chinooks (unpressurised and vibrates like fuck) we are all dead.
PT, in common with many Brexit enthusiasts, assumes that anything he doesn't understand must be simple.
I said that I don't know what plane it will be flown in but it's already announced it will be flown. I don't pretend to know how, just the fact it will be.
A cop-out by Mrs Tice? It must already be a done deal
She's a contraindicator.
Expecting to find out what's happening from her is like asking Laura Pidcock her opinion.
Laura Pidcock, as far as I am aware, does not share pillow talk with Richard "Mr Brexit" Tice.
You missed the point.
Tice/Oaleshott have no greater insight into what is going on than other fruitcakes, nuts and loons like Pidcock etc.
Her ramblings are meaningless.
No I didn't!
I look forward to you defending Johnson's inspirational wisdom in calling for a Covid-19 justified transition extension when Boris makes the announcement.
A transition to a defined endpoint, a genuine transition or implementation period is entirely reasonable. But then the negotiations will have finished.
An extension without defining the end point is insanity and I will not support that.
And yet the UK government has repeatedly said "we must have a deal by X or we will call off the talks and prepare for no deal". X has variously been July, the end of the Summer, 15 October...
And yet, he's never pushed the button. Never said to the UK, "Stiffen the sinews, folks, this is what we need to do." Despite the fact that the more prep, the better. That should tell you something.
That talks are ongoing and it ain't over until the fat lady sings.
A deal could be ratified 31/12/20.
The problem with that reasoning is that the longer you leave it, the more damage is done and the more the economy prepares itself for no deal, and so the benefits of getting a deal decline and a deal becomes less likely. In other words, a deal in late December is actually quite unlikely. I'm surprised someone so expert in trade negotiations, customs and border logistics didn't know that.
Couldn't we fill a chinook with those without needing the chinook to be CEIV Pharma certified?
This whole discussion is fucking mental. A wokka can carry about 8 tons over a distance of about 250km and RAF have about 20-30 that work. If the distribution of the vaccine relies on Chinooks (unpressurised and vibrates like fuck) we are all dead.
PT, in common with many Brexit enthusiasts, assumes that anything he doesn't understand must be simple.
Assuming something will be soluble isn't the same as assuming it is simple.
How many doses of Covid vaccine do you think will be lost to Brexit traffic?
Couldn't we fill a chinook with those without needing the chinook to be CEIV Pharma certified?
This whole discussion is fucking mental. A wokka can carry about 8 tons over a distance of about 250km and RAF have about 20-30 that work. If the distribution of the vaccine relies on Chinooks (unpressurised and vibrates like fuck) we are all dead.
PT, in common with many Brexit enthusiasts, assumes that anything he doesn't understand must be simple.
Assuming something will be soluble isn't the same as assuming it is simple.
How many doses of Covid vaccine do you think will be lost to Brexit traffic?
Couldn't we fill a chinook with those without needing the chinook to be CEIV Pharma certified?
This whole discussion is fucking mental. A wokka can carry about 8 tons over a distance of about 250km and RAF have about 20-30 that work. If the distribution of the vaccine relies on Chinooks (unpressurised and vibrates like fuck) we are all dead.
PT, in common with many Brexit enthusiasts, assumes that anything he doesn't understand must be simple.
Stop being unimaginative, if 16 AAB can drop horses into Afghanistan, then they can drop the vaccines to every household in the UK.
A cop-out by Mrs Tice? It must already be a done deal
She's a contraindicator.
Expecting to find out what's happening from her is like asking Laura Pidcock her opinion.
Laura Pidcock, as far as I am aware, does not share pillow talk with Richard "Mr Brexit" Tice.
You missed the point.
Tice/Oaleshott have no greater insight into what is going on than other fruitcakes, nuts and loons like Pidcock etc.
Her ramblings are meaningless.
No I didn't!
I look forward to you defending Johnson's inspirational wisdom in calling for a Covid-19 justified transition extension when Boris makes the announcement.
A transition to a defined endpoint, a genuine transition or implementation period is entirely reasonable. But then the negotiations will have finished.
An extension without defining the end point is insanity and I will not support that.
And yet the UK government has repeatedly said "we must have a deal by X or we will call off the talks and prepare for no deal". X has variously been July, the end of the Summer, 15 October...
And yet, he's never pushed the button. Never said to the UK, "Stiffen the sinews, folks, this is what we need to do." Despite the fact that the more prep, the better. That should tell you something.
That talks are ongoing and it ain't over until the fat lady sings.
A deal could be ratified 31/12/20.
The problem with that reasoning is that the longer you leave it, the more damage is done and the more the economy prepares itself for no deal, and so the benefits of getting a deal decline and a deal becomes less likely. In other words, a deal in late December is actually quite unlikely. I'm surprised someone so expert in trade negotiations, customs and border logistics didn't know that.
But I'm fine with no deal. So what's the issue?
And the EU only compromise at the last minute.
I bet when you were a bairn you loved playing chicken by putting a cardboard box on your head and walking into the road from behind a parked car.
A cop-out by Mrs Tice? It must already be a done deal
She's a contraindicator.
Expecting to find out what's happening from her is like asking Laura Pidcock her opinion.
Laura Pidcock, as far as I am aware, does not share pillow talk with Richard "Mr Brexit" Tice.
You missed the point.
Tice/Oaleshott have no greater insight into what is going on than other fruitcakes, nuts and loons like Pidcock etc.
Her ramblings are meaningless.
No I didn't!
I look forward to you defending Johnson's inspirational wisdom in calling for a Covid-19 justified transition extension when Boris makes the announcement.
A transition to a defined endpoint, a genuine transition or implementation period is entirely reasonable. But then the negotiations will have finished.
An extension without defining the end point is insanity and I will not support that.
And yet the UK government has repeatedly said "we must have a deal by X or we will call off the talks and prepare for no deal". X has variously been July, the end of the Summer, 15 October...
And yet, he's never pushed the button. Never said to the UK, "Stiffen the sinews, folks, this is what we need to do." Despite the fact that the more prep, the better. That should tell you something.
It certainly does. It confirms that there is no intention at all to do no deal. Whatever the theoretical merits it risks irrecoverable political disaster, including factory closures, food queues and all that, whereas any deal of any sort gives Boris until 2024 to recover his position. That's a long time when a week is a long time.
I agree. This transparent nonsense from No 10 that Johnson is the "hardman" on Brexit made me smile. They've very little left in their hand.
If I were the EU I would say "If you re-introduce the Internal Markets Bill with Articles 5 and 6 still in it, the talks are immediately off. Period." Cripes.
I'd follow it through (if Ireland are prepared to) and bear a month of chaos in January until the UK come back to the table, cap in hand, and minus Articles 5 and 6. A salutary lesson.
Unwise. As I've said before, my reading of the dynamic is that Brexit Britain is basically a teenage strop. They want to leave home because the rules are like so lame and they're not respected for their maturity, but their version of leaving home means don't touch their bedroom and of course they're keeping their keys and might be back for Sunday Lunch unless they get a better offer.
In that bit of psychodrama, the worst thing to do is to bring it to a head. That's what Kevin wants- someone to blame. So the EU's best plan is roughly what they're doing, which is to wait. Like wise grownups. They'll be fine whatever.
It's as if EU trade negotiators know what they're doing.
A cop-out by Mrs Tice? It must already be a done deal
She's a contraindicator.
Expecting to find out what's happening from her is like asking Laura Pidcock her opinion.
Laura Pidcock, as far as I am aware, does not share pillow talk with Richard "Mr Brexit" Tice.
You missed the point.
Tice/Oaleshott have no greater insight into what is going on than other fruitcakes, nuts and loons like Pidcock etc.
Her ramblings are meaningless.
No I didn't!
I look forward to you defending Johnson's inspirational wisdom in calling for a Covid-19 justified transition extension when Boris makes the announcement.
A transition to a defined endpoint, a genuine transition or implementation period is entirely reasonable. But then the negotiations will have finished.
An extension without defining the end point is insanity and I will not support that.
And yet the UK government has repeatedly said "we must have a deal by X or we will call off the talks and prepare for no deal". X has variously been July, the end of the Summer, 15 October...
And yet, he's never pushed the button. Never said to the UK, "Stiffen the sinews, folks, this is what we need to do." Despite the fact that the more prep, the better. That should tell you something.
That talks are ongoing and it ain't over until the fat lady sings.
A deal could be ratified 31/12/20.
The problem with that reasoning is that the longer you leave it, the more damage is done and the more the economy prepares itself for no deal, and so the benefits of getting a deal decline and a deal becomes less likely. In other words, a deal in late December is actually quite unlikely. I'm surprised someone so expert in trade negotiations, customs and border logistics didn't know that.
A cop-out by Mrs Tice? It must already be a done deal
She's a contraindicator.
Expecting to find out what's happening from her is like asking Laura Pidcock her opinion.
Laura Pidcock, as far as I am aware, does not share pillow talk with Richard "Mr Brexit" Tice.
You missed the point.
Tice/Oaleshott have no greater insight into what is going on than other fruitcakes, nuts and loons like Pidcock etc.
Her ramblings are meaningless.
No I didn't!
I look forward to you defending Johnson's inspirational wisdom in calling for a Covid-19 justified transition extension when Boris makes the announcement.
A transition to a defined endpoint, a genuine transition or implementation period is entirely reasonable. But then the negotiations will have finished.
An extension without defining the end point is insanity and I will not support that.
And yet the UK government has repeatedly said "we must have a deal by X or we will call off the talks and prepare for no deal". X has variously been July, the end of the Summer, 15 October...
And yet, he's never pushed the button. Never said to the UK, "Stiffen the sinews, folks, this is what we need to do." Despite the fact that the more prep, the better. That should tell you something.
That talks are ongoing and it ain't over until the fat lady sings.
A deal could be ratified 31/12/20.
The problem with that reasoning is that the longer you leave it, the more damage is done and the more the economy prepares itself for no deal, and so the benefits of getting a deal decline and a deal becomes less likely. In other words, a deal in late December is actually quite unlikely. I'm surprised someone so expert in trade negotiations, customs and border logistics didn't know that.
A cop-out by Mrs Tice? It must already be a done deal
She's a contraindicator.
Expecting to find out what's happening from her is like asking Laura Pidcock her opinion.
Laura Pidcock, as far as I am aware, does not share pillow talk with Richard "Mr Brexit" Tice.
You missed the point.
Tice/Oaleshott have no greater insight into what is going on than other fruitcakes, nuts and loons like Pidcock etc.
Her ramblings are meaningless.
No I didn't!
I look forward to you defending Johnson's inspirational wisdom in calling for a Covid-19 justified transition extension when Boris makes the announcement.
A transition to a defined endpoint, a genuine transition or implementation period is entirely reasonable. But then the negotiations will have finished.
An extension without defining the end point is insanity and I will not support that.
And yet the UK government has repeatedly said "we must have a deal by X or we will call off the talks and prepare for no deal". X has variously been July, the end of the Summer, 15 October...
And yet, he's never pushed the button. Never said to the UK, "Stiffen the sinews, folks, this is what we need to do." Despite the fact that the more prep, the better. That should tell you something.
That talks are ongoing and it ain't over until the fat lady sings.
A deal could be ratified 31/12/20.
The problem with that reasoning is that the longer you leave it, the more damage is done and the more the economy prepares itself for no deal, and so the benefits of getting a deal decline and a deal becomes less likely. In other words, a deal in late December is actually quite unlikely. I'm surprised someone so expert in trade negotiations, customs and border logistics didn't know that.
A cop-out by Mrs Tice? It must already be a done deal
She's a contraindicator.
Expecting to find out what's happening from her is like asking Laura Pidcock her opinion.
Laura Pidcock, as far as I am aware, does not share pillow talk with Richard "Mr Brexit" Tice.
You missed the point.
Tice/Oaleshott have no greater insight into what is going on than other fruitcakes, nuts and loons like Pidcock etc.
Her ramblings are meaningless.
No I didn't!
I look forward to you defending Johnson's inspirational wisdom in calling for a Covid-19 justified transition extension when Boris makes the announcement.
A transition to a defined endpoint, a genuine transition or implementation period is entirely reasonable. But then the negotiations will have finished.
An extension without defining the end point is insanity and I will not support that.
And yet the UK government has repeatedly said "we must have a deal by X or we will call off the talks and prepare for no deal". X has variously been July, the end of the Summer, 15 October...
And yet, he's never pushed the button. Never said to the UK, "Stiffen the sinews, folks, this is what we need to do." Despite the fact that the more prep, the better. That should tell you something.
It certainly does. It confirms that there is no intention at all to do no deal. Whatever the theoretical merits it risks irrecoverable political disaster, including factory closures, food queues and all that, whereas any deal of any sort gives Boris until 2024 to recover his position. That's a long time when a week is a long time.
I agree. This transparent nonsense from No 10 that Johnson is the "hardman" on Brexit made me smile. They've very little left in their hand.
If I were the EU I would say "If you re-introduce the Internal Markets Bill with Articles 5 and 6 still in it, the talks are immediately off. Period." Cripes.
I'd follow it through (if Ireland are prepared to) and bear a month of chaos in January until the UK come back to the table, cap in hand, and minus Articles 5 and 6. A salutary lesson.
Unwise. As I've said before, my reading of the dynamic is that Brexit Britain is basically a teenage strop. They want to leave home because the rules are like so lame and they're not respected for their maturity, but their version of leaving home means don't touch their bedroom and of course they're keeping their keys and might be back for Sunday Lunch unless they get a better offer.
In that bit of psychodrama, the worst thing to do is to bring it to a head. That's what Kevin wants- someone to blame. So the EU's best plan is roughly what they're doing, which is to wait. Like wise grownups. They'll be fine whatever.
It's as if EU trade negotiators know what they're doing.
Whereas I think Brexit Britain is the UK as a fully mature adult getting it's own mortgage and own home and will settle down on its own. With Remainers like yourself acting terrified like it's impossible for the UK to have its own home and pay its own way.
It is the same sort of ridiculous nonsense we see with Scottish independence debate. That Scotland is too wee and too poor to be a developed independent nation when it's the same size as other independent states it neighbours across Scandinavia etc
The UK is an established G7 major economy. Out of 200 economies across the globe we are in the top 7. We are not "Kevin".
A cop-out by Mrs Tice? It must already be a done deal
She's a contraindicator.
Expecting to find out what's happening from her is like asking Laura Pidcock her opinion.
Laura Pidcock, as far as I am aware, does not share pillow talk with Richard "Mr Brexit" Tice.
You missed the point.
Tice/Oaleshott have no greater insight into what is going on than other fruitcakes, nuts and loons like Pidcock etc.
Her ramblings are meaningless.
No I didn't!
I look forward to you defending Johnson's inspirational wisdom in calling for a Covid-19 justified transition extension when Boris makes the announcement.
A transition to a defined endpoint, a genuine transition or implementation period is entirely reasonable. But then the negotiations will have finished.
An extension without defining the end point is insanity and I will not support that.
And yet the UK government has repeatedly said "we must have a deal by X or we will call off the talks and prepare for no deal". X has variously been July, the end of the Summer, 15 October...
And yet, he's never pushed the button. Never said to the UK, "Stiffen the sinews, folks, this is what we need to do." Despite the fact that the more prep, the better. That should tell you something.
It certainly does. It confirms that there is no intention at all to do no deal. Whatever the theoretical merits it risks irrecoverable political disaster, including factory closures, food queues and all that, whereas any deal of any sort gives Boris until 2024 to recover his position. That's a long time when a week is a long time.
I agree. This transparent nonsense from No 10 that Johnson is the "hardman" on Brexit made me smile. They've very little left in their hand.
If I were the EU I would say "If you re-introduce the Internal Markets Bill with Articles 5 and 6 still in it, the talks are immediately off. Period." Cripes.
I'd follow it through (if Ireland are prepared to) and bear a month of chaos in January until the UK come back to the table, cap in hand, and minus Articles 5 and 6. A salutary lesson.
Unwise. As I've said before, my reading of the dynamic is that Brexit Britain is basically a teenage strop. They want to leave home because the rules are like so lame and they're not respected for their maturity, but their version of leaving home means don't touch their bedroom and of course they're keeping their keys and might be back for Sunday Lunch unless they get a better offer.
In that bit of psychodrama, the worst thing to do is to bring it to a head. That's what Kevin wants- someone to blame. So the EU's best plan is roughly what they're doing, which is to wait. Like wise grownups. They'll be fine whatever.
It's as if EU trade negotiators know what they're doing.
Wise.
It's many years since I've had to handle teenage strops but your post brings it all back.
A cop-out by Mrs Tice? It must already be a done deal
She's a contraindicator.
Expecting to find out what's happening from her is like asking Laura Pidcock her opinion.
Laura Pidcock, as far as I am aware, does not share pillow talk with Richard "Mr Brexit" Tice.
You missed the point.
Tice/Oaleshott have no greater insight into what is going on than other fruitcakes, nuts and loons like Pidcock etc.
Her ramblings are meaningless.
No I didn't!
I look forward to you defending Johnson's inspirational wisdom in calling for a Covid-19 justified transition extension when Boris makes the announcement.
A transition to a defined endpoint, a genuine transition or implementation period is entirely reasonable. But then the negotiations will have finished.
An extension without defining the end point is insanity and I will not support that.
And yet the UK government has repeatedly said "we must have a deal by X or we will call off the talks and prepare for no deal". X has variously been July, the end of the Summer, 15 October...
And yet, he's never pushed the button. Never said to the UK, "Stiffen the sinews, folks, this is what we need to do." Despite the fact that the more prep, the better. That should tell you something.
That talks are ongoing and it ain't over until the fat lady sings.
A deal could be ratified 31/12/20.
The problem with that reasoning is that the longer you leave it, the more damage is done and the more the economy prepares itself for no deal, and so the benefits of getting a deal decline and a deal becomes less likely. In other words, a deal in late December is actually quite unlikely. I'm surprised someone so expert in trade negotiations, customs and border logistics didn't know that.
But I'm fine with no deal. So what's the issue?
And the EU only compromise at the last minute.
This is the last minute.
Then let's see the EU compromise and if it doesn't no deal.
An extension is the path of least resistance. Johnson just needs to make it look like the EU has backed down.
Get 'No Change But With The Option For Future Divergence' Brexit Done!
It's always been the case that change would be incremental over the future. Remember pretty much the entire body of EU law was adopted as domestic law as part of the Withdrawal Act.
It's having the option for future divergence, unilaterally controlled by our sovereign Parliament, that is the key issue.
If the option to diverge is more important than diverging it follows with similar cast-iron logic that the option to leave was more important than leaving. The option to leave was the important thing. Which we had. We had the option to leave. We demonstrated this by doing so. But we did not need to prove it. It was always clear that we could leave. And given we could we did not need to. This is maths not politics. Brexit = Waste of Time. QED.
No, because the option to diverge will be followed by increasing amounts of actual divergence. Some have already been announced that will apply from 1/1/21 and more will follow as time goes on.
So yes the option to diverge is followed up with actual divergence. The option to leave is followed up with actually leaving. Maths not politics. Your maths. QED, I win.
You said having the option to diverge is the key thing not the actual divergence. That cannot be unsaid now you realize the logic of it takes you to a place you find awkward. PB debate doesn't work that way.
I also believe such disruptions are less likely...
Do you believe in the Great Flying Spaghetti Monster too?
Just because you believe something does not mean that reality will listen and obey.
Its alt-fact lunacy. *Any* delay at all vs the current c. 2mins crossing time creates a huge blockage which gums the whole thing completely. The new computer system to manage customs doesn't exist. The old computer system can't handle the number of transactions. The people needed to process the transactions on the computer system that either doesn't yet exist or can't handle them don't exist.
On 1st January 2021 we either maintain the status quo. Or everything stops. What Philip is saying is literal wishful thinking that is demolished by the facts on the ground and not shared by anyone who is actually involved in the actual business of logistics.
What I'm saying is shared by people in the actual business of logistics though.
Plenty of people in the actual business have gone on TV and said eg for major grocery retailers that they are confident they can cope and will have food on the shelves either way even if there is some disruption.
Please quote anyone in the actual business saying their actual business is going to collapse and not cope? Because I've not seen one person say that yet besides terrified scaremongers.
Is the sky green over your head? Sainsbury's. This Tuesday. At their annual trade conference. "We don't know how we're going to trade on 1st January. There is no agreement across the EU, which affects our supply and logistics, nor are there trade agreements with most of the rest of the world".
Over in Norniron - which is the UK despite Shagger not thinking it is - all of the major UK supermarkets are warning shoppers that literally thousands of products may be unavailable due to the technical challenge of trying to import short life fresh food through the GB/NI border. Remember that the UK government cannot tell Sainsbury's or any of the rest of them what paperwork they will need to ship GB to NI.
Any disruption. At all. And everything stops. That is reality. According to the people on the ground.
Saying they don't know how they're going to trade is not saying they won't be able to trade.
Indeed. There is still hope that the UK caves and the status quo continues. Otherwise they have already laid out what will happen. Nothing - as in food not being delivered to shops as they don't have any to deliver.
As always I am sure that you know best.
Bollocks have they said that.
Source please. I call bullshit.
Do your own research or stay in petulant denial. I don't care either way. What the trade has been saying about both NI supermarket deliveries and fresh food in general has been repeated over and over again. That clever dicks like your good self think they know better than the people who do it for a living is really comical.
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Plenty of people in the actual business have gone on TV and said eg for major grocery retailers that they are confident they can cope and will have food on the shelves either way even if there is some disruption.
Please quote anyone in the actual business saying their actual business is going to collapse and not cope? Because I've not seen one person say that yet besides terrified scaremongers.
https://www.berwickshirenews.co.uk/news/d-r-collin-facing-reality-brexit-114194
I was unaware of that.
🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄
And if it all becomes too much a walk into the cold Irish Sea at night is the quickest way of ending it all.
And yet, he's never pushed the button. Never said to the UK, "Stiffen the sinews, folks, this is what we need to do." Despite the fact that the more prep, the better.
That should tell you something.
An implementation period is eminently reasonable. It's a completely different kettle of fish.
A deal could be ratified 31/12/20.
Over in Norniron - which is the UK despite Shagger not thinking it is - all of the major UK supermarkets are warning shoppers that literally thousands of products may be unavailable due to the technical challenge of trying to import short life fresh food through the GB/NI border. Remember that the UK government cannot tell Sainsbury's or any of the rest of them what paperwork they will need to ship GB to NI.
Any disruption. At all. And everything stops. That is reality. According to the people on the ground.
It's having the option for future divergence, unilaterally controlled by our sovereign Parliament, that is the key issue.
Pitting from first to finishing ninth. Eesh.
I was and am a Remainer but when Leave won I assumed that they knew what they were doing I assumed that there was some sort of plan to deliver the things they promised in order to win the referendum. I couldn't have been more wrong.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikorsky_CH-53K_King_Stallion
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_CH-47_Chinook
I kept the fresh mackerel in the fridge. I suspected that the cleaning and gutting session would not be a success
That was quite the race.
Perez could not have defended against Hamilton, the pace difference was overwhelming.
Wrong call for Stroll, but many of those today.
Red for both my bets, bit unlucky with Leclerc, but these things happen. Overall this season I've definitely had more than my fair share of luck, so can't complain.
On the bright side, utterly splendid for both my Racing Points/McLaren best of the rest teams bets and similar bet on Perez.
Edited extra bit: oh, and the 5.45 on Verstappen for the win on Betfair, pre-third practice, was handily hedged at 2.5, so green there.
In October 1999, an Mi-26 was used to transport a 25-ton block of frozen soil encasing a preserved, 23,000-year-old woolly mammoth (Jarkov Mammoth) from the Siberian tundra to a lab in Khatanga, Taymyr. Due to the weight of the load, the Mi-26 had to be returned to the factory afterward to check for airframe and rotor warping caused by the potential of structural over-stressing.[6]"
These machines are a natural for bulk reefer transport, then. And we have so many of them. And all CEIV Pharma certified. Phew!
What they hadn’t accounted for was that the Scout hut was used by a nursery during the daytime & the impact on the small people was somewhat different - they really weren’t prepared for images of what had been done to these lovely fluffy bunnies.
Couldn't we fill a chinook with those without needing the chinook to be CEIV Pharma certified?
https://www.iata.org/en/programs/cargo/pharma/ceiv-pharma/
Whether it's via Chinooks or other aircraft is rather immaterial the fact is that it's not going via Felixstowe. It's not going to be sat in traffic jams.
You think you're being clever but you clearly haven't paid attention so are inventing your own Project Fear bullshit. It's as mad as the rest of Project Fear.
🙄🙄🙄🙄
I guess suburban Guides were a more genteel breed
As I told as a young man, people with class, don't talk about class.
Plus nobody gives a rat's arse where you come from, it's where you're going that's important.
PT doesn't say it will get out of a traffic jam, he says it wont sit in one, afaik sitting is not something a vaccine does.
And everything eventually gets out of the traffic jam, rarely is it by growing wings and flying.
Keir Starmer came across well throughout. Those listening should have warmed to him, if they haven't already.
I thought we had moved past that sort of thinking in the 18th Century, but alas... it is back to haunt us
Of courtse the bug is a disaster - but so is the way in which the solution to it is being handled. Your lkot are the McGonagalls of modern politics - they come along and makje a natural disaster twice as bad.
Anyway I've cashed out on my bet for him to leave office in 2021. But I put the bet on a while ago, so that I've won more in cashing out than will those who bet today at the 13/8 you quote.
As always I am sure that you know best.
Or are they going to claim that the EU reneged on the Australia option at the last minute and drove us into no deal that nobody wanted?
The worry supposedly was coming in via Felixstowe, which it's not going to do, it's going to be flown in.
Once it is in it will be able to be distributed by the military simply, it will have already gone past the supposed traffic jam.
If the military need to clear a path to get to a GPs surgery they will be able to do so. But that is implausible.
Source please. I call bullshit.
And don't forget Stroll was losing time. Perez could've passed him, and Stroll would likely have had to pit later anyway, and lost out even more.
Don't underestimate the talent Hamilton and Perez showed in making their tyres last.
https://twitter.com/AlexofBrown/status/1327954092317171712
If I were the EU I would say "If you re-introduce the Internal Markets Bill with Articles 5 and 6 still in it, the talks are immediately off. Period." Cripes.
I'd follow it through (if Ireland are prepared to) and bear a month of chaos in January until the UK come back to the table, cap in hand, and minus Articles 5 and 6. A salutary lesson.
So yes the option to diverge is followed up with actual divergence. The option to leave is followed up with actually leaving. Maths not politics. Your maths. QED, I win.
PT, in common with many Brexit enthusiasts, assumes that anything he doesn't understand must be simple.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/video/2016/oct/26/donald-trump-helps-league-cup-fifth-round-draw-1991-video
https://twitter.com/piersmorgan/status/1327952392650956800
And the EU only compromise at the last minute.
How many doses of Covid vaccine do you think will be lost to Brexit traffic?
He is just a different class
https://twitter.com/RepDougCollins/status/1327258280020877314
Of course Trump's probably been told the recount isn't changing more than a hundred votes or so, so now that too is a scam !
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1327952603318194178
But for that, I reckon it would've been Verstappen, Hamilton, Perez on the podium.
But Verstappen did cock up. Still needs to work on staying cool.
As I've said before, my reading of the dynamic is that Brexit Britain is basically a teenage strop. They want to leave home because the rules are like so lame and they're not respected for their maturity, but their version of leaving home means don't touch their bedroom and of course they're keeping their keys and might be back for Sunday Lunch unless they get a better offer.
In that bit of psychodrama, the worst thing to do is to bring it to a head. That's what Kevin wants- someone to blame. So the EU's best plan is roughly what they're doing, which is to wait. Like wise grownups. They'll be fine whatever.
It's as if EU trade negotiators know what they're doing.
Not having to wake up and talk to Piers must have been one small comfort.
It is the same sort of ridiculous nonsense we see with Scottish independence debate. That Scotland is too wee and too poor to be a developed independent nation when it's the same size as other independent states it neighbours across Scandinavia etc
The UK is an established G7 major economy. Out of 200 economies across the globe we are in the top 7. We are not "Kevin".
It's many years since I've had to handle teenage strops but your post brings it all back.
Time to rip off the bandage and just get it done.
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1327956491056279552
Any bet that said 'by Tweet' should pay out now. Some bets required a televised concession.