Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

Legendary Republican political strategist, Karl Rove, says the WH2020 outcome will be hard to overtu

1234568

Comments

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,671
    edited November 2020

    I don't understand how after placing loads of faith in a long term plan with consistent rules, they then decided we can relax those. The whole point of their approach was that you didn't change and you lived with a certain amount of it, rather than chopping and changing between lockdown and relaxation.
    From the outside I think they realised their policy might look rubbish if there was no long term immunity from catching the plague and/or a successful vaccine turned up.

    In defence of the Swedes that is something they understood, something the Covid-19 deniers in the media didn't realise.
  • I don't understand how after placing loads of faith in a long term plan with consistent rules, they then decided we can relax those. The whole point of their approach was that you didn't change and you lived with a certain amount of it, rather than chopping and changing between lockdown and relaxation.
    From the outside I think they realised their policy might look rubbish if there was no long term immunity from catching the plague and/or a successful vaccine turned up.

    In defence of the Swedes that is something they understand, something the Covid-19 deniers in the media didn't realise.
    Sweden's response to this throughout has been closer to the UK's (or vice-versa) than anyone tends to normally admit.

    Those who tend to hold up "Sweden" as an alternative tend to be projecting what they want upon Sweden rather than looking at what Sweden has actually done.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,463

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    RobD said:

    Carnyx said:

    RobD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    After England's 4 week lockdown should we stop the Welsh from coming into England bringing the pox with them?

    Given the research showing that much of the current Welsh pox came from England, that would be ironic.
    You what....80% came from Spain....

    https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.10.25.20219063v1.full.pdf
    MaxPB said:

    Carnyx said:

    After England's 4 week lockdown should we stop the Welsh from coming into England bringing the pox with them?

    Given the research showing that much of the current Welsh pox came from England, that would be ironic.
    Pretty sure it was Spain.
    It may well have come from Spain originally, but that's like blaning the Chinese for it. In this case there was a research project doing family tree wortk to trace the different strains/mutations/variations in the Welsh outbreak and it said a majority came from England. We discussed it on PB at the time, incoluding a link to the research report - my memory of 80% may well be wrong but it was about that level.
    Yep, this is it - or one version of it. I find I was thinking of the summer outbreaks. Plenty from overseas but mediated via rUK. Haven't got time to reread it (work calls) but it should be borne in mind that if these lineages had not come over the border they would not haqve caused outbreaks. At least one other PBer couldn't grasp that point. (We're not talking direct competition between virus lineages within hosts, as that needs far greater levekls of infection within the population.)

    https://gov.wales/sars-cov-2-genomic-insights-cover-statement-html
    Lineages such as UK389 and UK395 have never been seen before in Wales and have arrived in the August-September timescale to cause considerable numbers of cases in multiple locations, simultaneously. Examining these new arrival lineages reveals that they have arrived in many parts of the UK simultaneously, presenting a signature that is consistent with the idea that these lineages have been seeded by multiple simultaneous imports from outside Wales/the UK.

    So introduced from abroad, not from England.
    Originally, yes, But not necessarily into Wales at the time. That original document we discussed did show a map of that kind - which surprised m e because one would expect more introduction fropm say Spain and less of a signal over the border. That's what i remember and we did then discuss it.
    The idea that the current outbreak in Wales was caused by the English is inconsistent with that part of the document. It came from abroad into multiple places in the UK simultaneously.
    Wording is acvtually compatible with both happening. But we really need that docuiment we discussed earlier this year to see that map I remember.
    https://gov.wales/sites/default/files/publications/2020-10/sars-cov-2-genomic-insights-october-2020_0.pdf

    ppp 4-5 refer. I think this is a summary of the earluer work that we were discussing back when. Anyway they do consider import over the border significant - inclouding import from the Med first to England. As both you and I expect, some oif it would be direct to eg Cardiff Airport, but a non-trivial proportion over the border. Which is the rationale for closing it - in either direction.
    I think the issue with trying to link the import to England rather ignores where the English go when they holiday in Wales. I.e. not the places that are worst hit. You don't see many holiday cottages in the old industrial heartlands... By contrast, the areas round Pembrokeshire where I went in September, were and are almost Covid free.
    To mention Cardiff airport is missing the point that I do not know anyone who uses Cardiff Airport.

    Manchester, Liverpool and Heathrow account for the vast majority of flights from North Wales.

    I do accept that some visitors from England may well have passed on covid into parts of Wales but as has been said the places they visit have generally low rates of infection, ie Gwynedd, Meirionnydd and Pembrokeshire
    Bristol Airport has lots of flights to sunshine locations.
    I was talking in the context of North Wales

    South Wales is almost a different country in transport access from the North
    Try going South to North, and vice- versa. Better off taking the M50, M5, M6 and M54 (or A55).
    Before covid my daughter regularly travelled for work to Newport by train and it took nearly 4 hours each way

    She did drive occasionally but that was worse

    I have never driven to Cardiff from Llandudno despite living and working in Wales for over 50 years, though I have gone on holiday to Pembrokeshire once
    It is dire, isn't it. Old friend of mine, who lives in Snowdonia, was appointed to a couple of Welsh Government advisory bodies. Liked driving, had a super car but it took him ages. A half day, afternoon, meeting meant a morning, with an early start, to get there and much of the next day to get back.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,244
    edited November 2020
    Just reading up about the proposed ban on "junk foods", and Sadiq Khan's pratfall no. 987 over trying to do one on TFL.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-47444107

    Swallowing junk proposals without them touching the sides.

    Ye Gods. All because of a "God told me" academic.


  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,410
    Big breaking news.
    Nicola Adams out of Strictly as Katya tests positive...
  • Scott_xP said:
    I guess the surprisingly high rate of Covid-19 around the White House is because most of them are VIPs so the world gets to hear about their diagnoses but even so, it's a lot.
    According to the BBC's John Sopel Covid protocols inside the White House were lax to the point of non-existence.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    RobD said:

    Carnyx said:

    RobD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    After England's 4 week lockdown should we stop the Welsh from coming into England bringing the pox with them?

    Given the research showing that much of the current Welsh pox came from England, that would be ironic.
    You what....80% came from Spain....

    https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.10.25.20219063v1.full.pdf
    MaxPB said:

    Carnyx said:

    After England's 4 week lockdown should we stop the Welsh from coming into England bringing the pox with them?

    Given the research showing that much of the current Welsh pox came from England, that would be ironic.
    Pretty sure it was Spain.
    It may well have come from Spain originally, but that's like blaning the Chinese for it. In this case there was a research project doing family tree wortk to trace the different strains/mutations/variations in the Welsh outbreak and it said a majority came from England. We discussed it on PB at the time, incoluding a link to the research report - my memory of 80% may well be wrong but it was about that level.
    Yep, this is it - or one version of it. I find I was thinking of the summer outbreaks. Plenty from overseas but mediated via rUK. Haven't got time to reread it (work calls) but it should be borne in mind that if these lineages had not come over the border they would not haqve caused outbreaks. At least one other PBer couldn't grasp that point. (We're not talking direct competition between virus lineages within hosts, as that needs far greater levekls of infection within the population.)

    https://gov.wales/sars-cov-2-genomic-insights-cover-statement-html
    Lineages such as UK389 and UK395 have never been seen before in Wales and have arrived in the August-September timescale to cause considerable numbers of cases in multiple locations, simultaneously. Examining these new arrival lineages reveals that they have arrived in many parts of the UK simultaneously, presenting a signature that is consistent with the idea that these lineages have been seeded by multiple simultaneous imports from outside Wales/the UK.

    So introduced from abroad, not from England.
    Originally, yes, But not necessarily into Wales at the time. That original document we discussed did show a map of that kind - which surprised m e because one would expect more introduction fropm say Spain and less of a signal over the border. That's what i remember and we did then discuss it.
    The idea that the current outbreak in Wales was caused by the English is inconsistent with that part of the document. It came from abroad into multiple places in the UK simultaneously.
    Wording is acvtually compatible with both happening. But we really need that docuiment we discussed earlier this year to see that map I remember.
    https://gov.wales/sites/default/files/publications/2020-10/sars-cov-2-genomic-insights-october-2020_0.pdf

    ppp 4-5 refer. I think this is a summary of the earluer work that we were discussing back when. Anyway they do consider import over the border significant - inclouding import from the Med first to England. As both you and I expect, some oif it would be direct to eg Cardiff Airport, but a non-trivial proportion over the border. Which is the rationale for closing it - in either direction.
    I think the issue with trying to link the import to England rather ignores where the English go when they holiday in Wales. I.e. not the places that are worst hit. You don't see many holiday cottages in the old industrial heartlands... By contrast, the areas round Pembrokeshire where I went in September, were and are almost Covid free.
    To mention Cardiff airport is missing the point that I do not know anyone who uses Cardiff Airport.

    Manchester, Liverpool and Heathrow account for the vast majority of flights from North Wales.

    I do accept that some visitors from England may well have passed on covid into parts of Wales but as has been said the places they visit have generally low rates of infection, ie Gwynedd, Meirionnydd and Pembrokeshire
    Bristol Airport has lots of flights to sunshine locations.
    I was talking in the context of North Wales

    South Wales is almost a different country in transport access from the North
    Try going South to North, and vice- versa. Better off taking the M50, M5, M6 and M54 (or A55).
    The A470 is a lovely road, as long as it's daylight, and you're not in a hurry. Watching the Red Kites be fed at Gigrin Farm is good fun too, though a cold place to wait if you're there too long before meal time.
    The A470 used to be the bane of my life, For many years I lived just off Manor Way in Whitchurch, Cardiff. If it wasn't the constant hum of traffic that kept me awake at night, it was the tractors and slow moving trucks between Merthyr and Llanidloes that kept my car to a crawl.
  • dixiedean said:

    Big breaking news.
    Nicola Adams out of Strictly as Katya tests positive...

    Bollocks.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    RobD said:

    Carnyx said:

    RobD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    After England's 4 week lockdown should we stop the Welsh from coming into England bringing the pox with them?

    Given the research showing that much of the current Welsh pox came from England, that would be ironic.
    You what....80% came from Spain....

    https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.10.25.20219063v1.full.pdf
    MaxPB said:

    Carnyx said:

    After England's 4 week lockdown should we stop the Welsh from coming into England bringing the pox with them?

    Given the research showing that much of the current Welsh pox came from England, that would be ironic.
    Pretty sure it was Spain.
    It may well have come from Spain originally, but that's like blaning the Chinese for it. In this case there was a research project doing family tree wortk to trace the different strains/mutations/variations in the Welsh outbreak and it said a majority came from England. We discussed it on PB at the time, incoluding a link to the research report - my memory of 80% may well be wrong but it was about that level.
    Yep, this is it - or one version of it. I find I was thinking of the summer outbreaks. Plenty from overseas but mediated via rUK. Haven't got time to reread it (work calls) but it should be borne in mind that if these lineages had not come over the border they would not haqve caused outbreaks. At least one other PBer couldn't grasp that point. (We're not talking direct competition between virus lineages within hosts, as that needs far greater levekls of infection within the population.)

    https://gov.wales/sars-cov-2-genomic-insights-cover-statement-html
    Lineages such as UK389 and UK395 have never been seen before in Wales and have arrived in the August-September timescale to cause considerable numbers of cases in multiple locations, simultaneously. Examining these new arrival lineages reveals that they have arrived in many parts of the UK simultaneously, presenting a signature that is consistent with the idea that these lineages have been seeded by multiple simultaneous imports from outside Wales/the UK.

    So introduced from abroad, not from England.
    Originally, yes, But not necessarily into Wales at the time. That original document we discussed did show a map of that kind - which surprised m e because one would expect more introduction fropm say Spain and less of a signal over the border. That's what i remember and we did then discuss it.
    The idea that the current outbreak in Wales was caused by the English is inconsistent with that part of the document. It came from abroad into multiple places in the UK simultaneously.
    Wording is acvtually compatible with both happening. But we really need that docuiment we discussed earlier this year to see that map I remember.
    https://gov.wales/sites/default/files/publications/2020-10/sars-cov-2-genomic-insights-october-2020_0.pdf

    ppp 4-5 refer. I think this is a summary of the earluer work that we were discussing back when. Anyway they do consider import over the border significant - inclouding import from the Med first to England. As both you and I expect, some oif it would be direct to eg Cardiff Airport, but a non-trivial proportion over the border. Which is the rationale for closing it - in either direction.
    I think the issue with trying to link the import to England rather ignores where the English go when they holiday in Wales. I.e. not the places that are worst hit. You don't see many holiday cottages in the old industrial heartlands... By contrast, the areas round Pembrokeshire where I went in September, were and are almost Covid free.
    To mention Cardiff airport is missing the point that I do not know anyone who uses Cardiff Airport.

    Manchester, Liverpool and Heathrow account for the vast majority of flights from North Wales.

    I do accept that some visitors from England may well have passed on covid into parts of Wales but as has been said the places they visit have generally low rates of infection, ie Gwynedd, Meirionnydd and Pembrokeshire
    Bristol Airport has lots of flights to sunshine locations.
    I was talking in the context of North Wales

    South Wales is almost a different country in transport access from the North
    Try going South to North, and vice- versa. Better off taking the M50, M5, M6 and M54 (or A55).
    Before covid my daughter regularly travelled for work to Newport by train and it took nearly 4 hours each way

    She did drive occasionally but that was worse

    I have never driven to Cardiff from Llandudno despite living and working in Wales for over 50 years, though I have gone on holiday to Pembrokeshire once
    Not during Drakeford's "county lines" lockdown, before lockdown, I trust.
  • gealbhangealbhan Posts: 2,362
    MrEd said:
    Alternatively they are just genuinely scared. Gun totting Trump fanatics turn up at their home or office and they have to have an argument with them.

    A lot of people on this blog are not being fair to the GOP because the position they find themselves in is not easy.
  • Oh happy days.

    Just had confirmation that my Pro Max 12 will be delivered tomorrow.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    PB used to be a betting site.

    Now it seems to be a platform for very odd people to indulge their weirdest and most outlandish political fantasies.
  • PB used to be a betting site.

    Now it seems to be a platform for very odd people to indulge their weirdest and most outlandish political fantasies.

    And willy wave about who has the newest tech....
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381

    dixiedean said:

    Big breaking news.
    Nicola Adams out of Strictly as Katya tests positive...

    Bollocks.
    I thought the great Strictly debate this year was all about bollocks, and the fact that neither Nicola or Katya had any.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    I don't understand how after placing loads of faith in a long term plan with consistent rules, they then decided we can relax those. The whole point of their approach was that you didn't change and you lived with a certain amount of it, rather than chopping and changing between lockdown and relaxation.
    From the outside I think they realised their policy might look rubbish if there was no long term immunity from catching the plague and/or a successful vaccine turned up.

    In defence of the Swedes that is something they understood, something the Covid-19 deniers in the media didn't realise.
    I have detected a touch of the "we've achieved herd immunity" from some of the statements made by the Swedes at times.
  • dixiedean said:

    Big breaking news.
    Nicola Adams out of Strictly as Katya tests positive...

    Bollocks.
    I thought the great Strictly debate this year was all about bollocks, and the fact that neither Nicola or Katya had any.
    Well yes, I fear this year is going to get cancelled, they are in a bubble, and yet Katya and Rylan have caught it, the last one standing will be HRVY as he's already had it.
  • I don't understand how after placing loads of faith in a long term plan with consistent rules, they then decided we can relax those. The whole point of their approach was that you didn't change and you lived with a certain amount of it, rather than chopping and changing between lockdown and relaxation.
    From the outside I think they realised their policy might look rubbish if there was no long term immunity from catching the plague and/or a successful vaccine turned up.

    In defence of the Swedes that is something they understand, something the Covid-19 deniers in the media didn't realise.
    Sweden's response to this throughout has been closer to the UK's (or vice-versa) than anyone tends to normally admit.

    Those who tend to hold up "Sweden" as an alternative tend to be projecting what they want upon Sweden rather than looking at what Sweden has actually done.
    Indeed but I can show you some trend lines showing otherwise.
  • dixiedean said:

    Big breaking news.
    Nicola Adams out of Strictly as Katya tests positive...

    Bollocks.
    I thought the great Strictly debate this year was all about bollocks, and the fact that neither Nicola or Katya had any.
    Well yes, I fear this year is going to get cancelled, they are in a bubble, and yet Katya and Rylan have caught it, the last one standing will be HRVY as he's already had it.
    I don't watch Strictly, that's bad if they are supposed to be in a bubble and it has failed. IPL just wrapped up with another total success for bubble idea in cricket.
  • PB used to be a betting site.

    Now it seems to be a platform for very odd people to indulge their weirdest and most outlandish political fantasies.

    And willy wave about who has the newest tech....
    Nah, it was willy waving about who was in the highest tier with British Airways.
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382
    MrEd said:

    On topic, worth noting the dates above. The 20th November ratification date for Georgia is absolutely key. It's a Friday with Michigan and Pennsylvania the following Monday, Arizona the Monday after that, and Wisconsin / Nevada on the Tuesday.

    If - and it is a massive if - Georgia does find there have been enough miscounted votes, errors and especially mail-in ballots that have been disqualified etc to switch the result, then all Hell is going to break loose. There would then be massive pressure on the other states to follow suit and, if they did not, the question of what state legislatures would do suddenly becomes critical. That's especially the case with Michigan and Pennsylvania, which have Democrat Governors / SoS / Supreme Courts but Republican legislatures.

    The obvious rebut to this is to say they are not going to find enough votes to overturn the results, it's never happened before so it won't happen now. The answer to that is this is an unprecedented election given how votes were cast, and the level of mail-in ballots. Georgia's rejection rate is apparently 0.2%, Pennsylvania's at <0.05%. That compares with 21% of mail-ins for the NY Primary in June or - if you see that as extreme - Georgia's 1% rejection rate for its 2020 primaries or Wisconsin's 2%.

    From a betting standpoint, there has been the message of Biden is an absolute steal at his price. If you are thinking of betting large, just consider the above. </p>

    Are there any miscounted votes in states where Trump won ?.
    As if not this seems like horse shit.
  • Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    RobD said:

    Carnyx said:

    RobD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    After England's 4 week lockdown should we stop the Welsh from coming into England bringing the pox with them?

    Given the research showing that much of the current Welsh pox came from England, that would be ironic.
    You what....80% came from Spain....

    https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.10.25.20219063v1.full.pdf
    MaxPB said:

    Carnyx said:

    After England's 4 week lockdown should we stop the Welsh from coming into England bringing the pox with them?

    Given the research showing that much of the current Welsh pox came from England, that would be ironic.
    Pretty sure it was Spain.
    It may well have come from Spain originally, but that's like blaning the Chinese for it. In this case there was a research project doing family tree wortk to trace the different strains/mutations/variations in the Welsh outbreak and it said a majority came from England. We discussed it on PB at the time, incoluding a link to the research report - my memory of 80% may well be wrong but it was about that level.
    Yep, this is it - or one version of it. I find I was thinking of the summer outbreaks. Plenty from overseas but mediated via rUK. Haven't got time to reread it (work calls) but it should be borne in mind that if these lineages had not come over the border they would not haqve caused outbreaks. At least one other PBer couldn't grasp that point. (We're not talking direct competition between virus lineages within hosts, as that needs far greater levekls of infection within the population.)

    https://gov.wales/sars-cov-2-genomic-insights-cover-statement-html
    Lineages such as UK389 and UK395 have never been seen before in Wales and have arrived in the August-September timescale to cause considerable numbers of cases in multiple locations, simultaneously. Examining these new arrival lineages reveals that they have arrived in many parts of the UK simultaneously, presenting a signature that is consistent with the idea that these lineages have been seeded by multiple simultaneous imports from outside Wales/the UK.

    So introduced from abroad, not from England.
    Originally, yes, But not necessarily into Wales at the time. That original document we discussed did show a map of that kind - which surprised m e because one would expect more introduction fropm say Spain and less of a signal over the border. That's what i remember and we did then discuss it.
    The idea that the current outbreak in Wales was caused by the English is inconsistent with that part of the document. It came from abroad into multiple places in the UK simultaneously.
    Wording is acvtually compatible with both happening. But we really need that docuiment we discussed earlier this year to see that map I remember.
    https://gov.wales/sites/default/files/publications/2020-10/sars-cov-2-genomic-insights-october-2020_0.pdf

    ppp 4-5 refer. I think this is a summary of the earluer work that we were discussing back when. Anyway they do consider import over the border significant - inclouding import from the Med first to England. As both you and I expect, some oif it would be direct to eg Cardiff Airport, but a non-trivial proportion over the border. Which is the rationale for closing it - in either direction.
    I think the issue with trying to link the import to England rather ignores where the English go when they holiday in Wales. I.e. not the places that are worst hit. You don't see many holiday cottages in the old industrial heartlands... By contrast, the areas round Pembrokeshire where I went in September, were and are almost Covid free.
    To mention Cardiff airport is missing the point that I do not know anyone who uses Cardiff Airport.

    Manchester, Liverpool and Heathrow account for the vast majority of flights from North Wales.

    I do accept that some visitors from England may well have passed on covid into parts of Wales but as has been said the places they visit have generally low rates of infection, ie Gwynedd, Meirionnydd and Pembrokeshire
    Bristol Airport has lots of flights to sunshine locations.
    I was talking in the context of North Wales

    South Wales is almost a different country in transport access from the North
    Try going South to North, and vice- versa. Better off taking the M50, M5, M6 and M54 (or A55).
    Before covid my daughter regularly travelled for work to Newport by train and it took nearly 4 hours each way

    She did drive occasionally but that was worse

    I have never driven to Cardiff from Llandudno despite living and working in Wales for over 50 years, though I have gone on holiday to Pembrokeshire once
    It is dire, isn't it. Old friend of mine, who lives in Snowdonia, was appointed to a couple of Welsh Government advisory bodies. Liked driving, had a super car but it took him ages. A half day, afternoon, meeting meant a morning, with an early start, to get there and much of the next day to get back.
    You outline it exactly as my daughter finds it and she does not get home until quite late and utterly exhausted
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381

    dixiedean said:

    Big breaking news.
    Nicola Adams out of Strictly as Katya tests positive...

    Bollocks.
    I thought the great Strictly debate this year was all about bollocks, and the fact that neither Nicola or Katya had any.
    Well yes, I fear this year is going to get cancelled, they are in a bubble, and yet Katya and Rylan have caught it, the last one standing will be HRVY as he's already had it.
    Thanks for the tip. I have just put £20 on HRVY at 10/3 with Paddy Power.
  • Scott_xP said:
    And Rishi did not mention eat out to help out

    Another journalist egging it
  • Alistair said:

    I don't understand how after placing loads of faith in a long term plan with consistent rules, they then decided we can relax those. The whole point of their approach was that you didn't change and you lived with a certain amount of it, rather than chopping and changing between lockdown and relaxation.
    From the outside I think they realised their policy might look rubbish if there was no long term immunity from catching the plague and/or a successful vaccine turned up.

    In defence of the Swedes that is something they understood, something the Covid-19 deniers in the media didn't realise.
    I have detected a touch of the "we've achieved herd immunity" from some of the statements made by the Swedes at times.
    I wonder how long before the far right citizen journalists go back to saying Sweden is a shithole we should hope not to emulate?
  • dixiedean said:

    Big breaking news.
    Nicola Adams out of Strictly as Katya tests positive...

    Bollocks.
    I thought the great Strictly debate this year was all about bollocks, and the fact that neither Nicola or Katya had any.
    Well yes, I fear this year is going to get cancelled, they are in a bubble, and yet Katya and Rylan have caught it, the last one standing will be HRVY as he's already had it.
    Thanks for the tip. I have just put £20 on HRVY at 10/3 with Paddy Power.
    He's a good dancer, my money has been on Bill Bailey as well.
  • Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    RobD said:

    Carnyx said:

    RobD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    After England's 4 week lockdown should we stop the Welsh from coming into England bringing the pox with them?

    Given the research showing that much of the current Welsh pox came from England, that would be ironic.
    You what....80% came from Spain....

    https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.10.25.20219063v1.full.pdf
    MaxPB said:

    Carnyx said:

    After England's 4 week lockdown should we stop the Welsh from coming into England bringing the pox with them?

    Given the research showing that much of the current Welsh pox came from England, that would be ironic.
    Pretty sure it was Spain.
    It may well have come from Spain originally, but that's like blaning the Chinese for it. In this case there was a research project doing family tree wortk to trace the different strains/mutations/variations in the Welsh outbreak and it said a majority came from England. We discussed it on PB at the time, incoluding a link to the research report - my memory of 80% may well be wrong but it was about that level.
    Yep, this is it - or one version of it. I find I was thinking of the summer outbreaks. Plenty from overseas but mediated via rUK. Haven't got time to reread it (work calls) but it should be borne in mind that if these lineages had not come over the border they would not haqve caused outbreaks. At least one other PBer couldn't grasp that point. (We're not talking direct competition between virus lineages within hosts, as that needs far greater levekls of infection within the population.)

    https://gov.wales/sars-cov-2-genomic-insights-cover-statement-html
    Lineages such as UK389 and UK395 have never been seen before in Wales and have arrived in the August-September timescale to cause considerable numbers of cases in multiple locations, simultaneously. Examining these new arrival lineages reveals that they have arrived in many parts of the UK simultaneously, presenting a signature that is consistent with the idea that these lineages have been seeded by multiple simultaneous imports from outside Wales/the UK.

    So introduced from abroad, not from England.
    Originally, yes, But not necessarily into Wales at the time. That original document we discussed did show a map of that kind - which surprised m e because one would expect more introduction fropm say Spain and less of a signal over the border. That's what i remember and we did then discuss it.
    The idea that the current outbreak in Wales was caused by the English is inconsistent with that part of the document. It came from abroad into multiple places in the UK simultaneously.
    Wording is acvtually compatible with both happening. But we really need that docuiment we discussed earlier this year to see that map I remember.
    https://gov.wales/sites/default/files/publications/2020-10/sars-cov-2-genomic-insights-october-2020_0.pdf

    ppp 4-5 refer. I think this is a summary of the earluer work that we were discussing back when. Anyway they do consider import over the border significant - inclouding import from the Med first to England. As both you and I expect, some oif it would be direct to eg Cardiff Airport, but a non-trivial proportion over the border. Which is the rationale for closing it - in either direction.
    I think the issue with trying to link the import to England rather ignores where the English go when they holiday in Wales. I.e. not the places that are worst hit. You don't see many holiday cottages in the old industrial heartlands... By contrast, the areas round Pembrokeshire where I went in September, were and are almost Covid free.
    To mention Cardiff airport is missing the point that I do not know anyone who uses Cardiff Airport.

    Manchester, Liverpool and Heathrow account for the vast majority of flights from North Wales.

    I do accept that some visitors from England may well have passed on covid into parts of Wales but as has been said the places they visit have generally low rates of infection, ie Gwynedd, Meirionnydd and Pembrokeshire
    Bristol Airport has lots of flights to sunshine locations.
    I was talking in the context of North Wales

    South Wales is almost a different country in transport access from the North
    Try going South to North, and vice- versa. Better off taking the M50, M5, M6 and M54 (or A55).
    Before covid my daughter regularly travelled for work to Newport by train and it took nearly 4 hours each way

    She did drive occasionally but that was worse

    I have never driven to Cardiff from Llandudno despite living and working in Wales for over 50 years, though I have gone on holiday to Pembrokeshire once
    Not during Drakeford's "county lines" lockdown, before lockdown, I trust.
    Before covid she would travel 2 or 3 times a month to South Wales but of course she is working from home at present

    And she has a stressful job leading a team of advisors at the DWP dealing with universal credit
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    Re: state certification dates, are these deadlines or do they have to do it on the actual day? i.e. can they certify earlier if they are ready?

  • PB used to be a betting site.

    Now it seems to be a platform for very odd people to indulge their weirdest and most outlandish political fantasies.

    I read that as 'old people', in which case I would have agreed with you.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    RobD said:

    Carnyx said:

    RobD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    After England's 4 week lockdown should we stop the Welsh from coming into England bringing the pox with them?

    Given the research showing that much of the current Welsh pox came from England, that would be ironic.
    You what....80% came from Spain....

    https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.10.25.20219063v1.full.pdf
    MaxPB said:

    Carnyx said:

    After England's 4 week lockdown should we stop the Welsh from coming into England bringing the pox with them?

    Given the research showing that much of the current Welsh pox came from England, that would be ironic.
    Pretty sure it was Spain.
    It may well have come from Spain originally, but that's like blaning the Chinese for it. In this case there was a research project doing family tree wortk to trace the different strains/mutations/variations in the Welsh outbreak and it said a majority came from England. We discussed it on PB at the time, incoluding a link to the research report - my memory of 80% may well be wrong but it was about that level.
    Yep, this is it - or one version of it. I find I was thinking of the summer outbreaks. Plenty from overseas but mediated via rUK. Haven't got time to reread it (work calls) but it should be borne in mind that if these lineages had not come over the border they would not haqve caused outbreaks. At least one other PBer couldn't grasp that point. (We're not talking direct competition between virus lineages within hosts, as that needs far greater levekls of infection within the population.)

    https://gov.wales/sars-cov-2-genomic-insights-cover-statement-html
    Lineages such as UK389 and UK395 have never been seen before in Wales and have arrived in the August-September timescale to cause considerable numbers of cases in multiple locations, simultaneously. Examining these new arrival lineages reveals that they have arrived in many parts of the UK simultaneously, presenting a signature that is consistent with the idea that these lineages have been seeded by multiple simultaneous imports from outside Wales/the UK.

    So introduced from abroad, not from England.
    Originally, yes, But not necessarily into Wales at the time. That original document we discussed did show a map of that kind - which surprised m e because one would expect more introduction fropm say Spain and less of a signal over the border. That's what i remember and we did then discuss it.
    The idea that the current outbreak in Wales was caused by the English is inconsistent with that part of the document. It came from abroad into multiple places in the UK simultaneously.
    Wording is acvtually compatible with both happening. But we really need that docuiment we discussed earlier this year to see that map I remember.
    https://gov.wales/sites/default/files/publications/2020-10/sars-cov-2-genomic-insights-october-2020_0.pdf

    ppp 4-5 refer. I think this is a summary of the earluer work that we were discussing back when. Anyway they do consider import over the border significant - inclouding import from the Med first to England. As both you and I expect, some oif it would be direct to eg Cardiff Airport, but a non-trivial proportion over the border. Which is the rationale for closing it - in either direction.
    I think the issue with trying to link the import to England rather ignores where the English go when they holiday in Wales. I.e. not the places that are worst hit. You don't see many holiday cottages in the old industrial heartlands... By contrast, the areas round Pembrokeshire where I went in September, were and are almost Covid free.
    To mention Cardiff airport is missing the point that I do not know anyone who uses Cardiff Airport.

    Manchester, Liverpool and Heathrow account for the vast majority of flights from North Wales.

    I do accept that some visitors from England may well have passed on covid into parts of Wales but as has been said the places they visit have generally low rates of infection, ie Gwynedd, Meirionnydd and Pembrokeshire
    Bristol Airport has lots of flights to sunshine locations.
    I was talking in the context of North Wales

    South Wales is almost a different country in transport access from the North
    Try going South to North, and vice- versa. Better off taking the M50, M5, M6 and M54 (or A55).
    Before covid my daughter regularly travelled for work to Newport by train and it took nearly 4 hours each way

    She did drive occasionally but that was worse

    I have never driven to Cardiff from Llandudno despite living and working in Wales for over 50 years, though I have gone on holiday to Pembrokeshire once
    Not during Drakeford's "county lines" lockdown, before lockdown, I trust.
    Before covid she would travel 2 or 3 times a month to South Wales but of course she is working from home at present

    And she has a stressful job leading a team of advisors at the DWP dealing with universal credit
    I was referring to your jolly to Tenby!
  • Scott_xP said:

    Are those tallies cases or illegal votes?

    They did find some suspicious electoral activity. In Florida

    https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1326895024219435008

    Ironic if they rerun a state Trump won...
    The Dems should have encouraged a Ronald J Trump to stand.
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    MrEd said:

    On topic, worth noting the dates above. The 20th November ratification date for Georgia is absolutely key. It's a Friday with Michigan and Pennsylvania the following Monday, Arizona the Monday after that, and Wisconsin / Nevada on the Tuesday.

    If - and it is a massive if - Georgia does find there have been enough miscounted votes, errors and especially mail-in ballots that have been disqualified etc to switch the result, then all Hell is going to break loose. There would then be massive pressure on the other states to follow suit and, if they did not, the question of what state legislatures would do suddenly becomes critical. That's especially the case with Michigan and Pennsylvania, which have Democrat Governors / SoS / Supreme Courts but Republican legislatures.

    The obvious rebut to this is to say they are not going to find enough votes to overturn the results, it's never happened before so it won't happen now. The answer to that is this is an unprecedented election given how votes were cast, and the level of mail-in ballots. Georgia's rejection rate is apparently 0.2%, Pennsylvania's at <0.05%. That compares with 21% of mail-ins for the NY Primary in June or - if you see that as extreme - Georgia's 1% rejection rate for its 2020 primaries or Wisconsin's 2%.

    From a betting standpoint, there has been the message of Biden is an absolute steal at his price. If you are thinking of betting large, just consider the above. </p>

    Mate, it's over. Your man lost. Leave it.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,463

    PB used to be a betting site.

    Now it seems to be a platform for very odd people to indulge their weirdest and most outlandish political fantasies.

    I read that as 'old people', in which case I would have agreed with you.
    As an old person I have this fantastical memory about Britain having a Government which at least gave the appearance of competency.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381

    dixiedean said:

    Big breaking news.
    Nicola Adams out of Strictly as Katya tests positive...

    Bollocks.
    I thought the great Strictly debate this year was all about bollocks, and the fact that neither Nicola or Katya had any.
    Well yes, I fear this year is going to get cancelled, they are in a bubble, and yet Katya and Rylan have caught it, the last one standing will be HRVY as he's already had it.
    Thanks for the tip. I have just put £20 on HRVY at 10/3 with Paddy Power.
    He's a good dancer, my money has been on Bill Bailey as well.
    Ah, but does Bill Bailey abound with Covid antibodies?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,100
    edited November 2020
    Oh giddy me....

    33,470 new positive cases...of which 30,843 are in England.
  • dixiedean said:

    Big breaking news.
    Nicola Adams out of Strictly as Katya tests positive...

    Bollocks.
    I thought the great Strictly debate this year was all about bollocks, and the fact that neither Nicola or Katya had any.
    Well yes, I fear this year is going to get cancelled, they are in a bubble, and yet Katya and Rylan have caught it, the last one standing will be HRVY as he's already had it.
    Thanks for the tip. I have just put £20 on HRVY at 10/3 with Paddy Power.
    He's a good dancer, my money has been on Bill Bailey as well.
    Ah, but does Bill Bailey abound with Covid antibodies?
    I don't think he's had it.
  • Oh giddy me....

    33,470 new positive cases...of which 30,843 are in England.

    If this isn't a catch up off cases not previously recorded then we're not leaving lockdown in December are we?
  • Are we looking at another excel spreadsheet balls up?
  • Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    RobD said:

    Carnyx said:

    RobD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    After England's 4 week lockdown should we stop the Welsh from coming into England bringing the pox with them?

    Given the research showing that much of the current Welsh pox came from England, that would be ironic.
    You what....80% came from Spain....

    https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.10.25.20219063v1.full.pdf
    MaxPB said:

    Carnyx said:

    After England's 4 week lockdown should we stop the Welsh from coming into England bringing the pox with them?

    Given the research showing that much of the current Welsh pox came from England, that would be ironic.
    Pretty sure it was Spain.
    It may well have come from Spain originally, but that's like blaning the Chinese for it. In this case there was a research project doing family tree wortk to trace the different strains/mutations/variations in the Welsh outbreak and it said a majority came from England. We discussed it on PB at the time, incoluding a link to the research report - my memory of 80% may well be wrong but it was about that level.
    Yep, this is it - or one version of it. I find I was thinking of the summer outbreaks. Plenty from overseas but mediated via rUK. Haven't got time to reread it (work calls) but it should be borne in mind that if these lineages had not come over the border they would not haqve caused outbreaks. At least one other PBer couldn't grasp that point. (We're not talking direct competition between virus lineages within hosts, as that needs far greater levekls of infection within the population.)

    https://gov.wales/sars-cov-2-genomic-insights-cover-statement-html
    Lineages such as UK389 and UK395 have never been seen before in Wales and have arrived in the August-September timescale to cause considerable numbers of cases in multiple locations, simultaneously. Examining these new arrival lineages reveals that they have arrived in many parts of the UK simultaneously, presenting a signature that is consistent with the idea that these lineages have been seeded by multiple simultaneous imports from outside Wales/the UK.

    So introduced from abroad, not from England.
    Originally, yes, But not necessarily into Wales at the time. That original document we discussed did show a map of that kind - which surprised m e because one would expect more introduction fropm say Spain and less of a signal over the border. That's what i remember and we did then discuss it.
    The idea that the current outbreak in Wales was caused by the English is inconsistent with that part of the document. It came from abroad into multiple places in the UK simultaneously.
    Wording is acvtually compatible with both happening. But we really need that docuiment we discussed earlier this year to see that map I remember.
    https://gov.wales/sites/default/files/publications/2020-10/sars-cov-2-genomic-insights-october-2020_0.pdf

    ppp 4-5 refer. I think this is a summary of the earluer work that we were discussing back when. Anyway they do consider import over the border significant - inclouding import from the Med first to England. As both you and I expect, some oif it would be direct to eg Cardiff Airport, but a non-trivial proportion over the border. Which is the rationale for closing it - in either direction.
    I think the issue with trying to link the import to England rather ignores where the English go when they holiday in Wales. I.e. not the places that are worst hit. You don't see many holiday cottages in the old industrial heartlands... By contrast, the areas round Pembrokeshire where I went in September, were and are almost Covid free.
    To mention Cardiff airport is missing the point that I do not know anyone who uses Cardiff Airport.

    Manchester, Liverpool and Heathrow account for the vast majority of flights from North Wales.

    I do accept that some visitors from England may well have passed on covid into parts of Wales but as has been said the places they visit have generally low rates of infection, ie Gwynedd, Meirionnydd and Pembrokeshire
    Bristol Airport has lots of flights to sunshine locations.
    I was talking in the context of North Wales

    South Wales is almost a different country in transport access from the North
    Try going South to North, and vice- versa. Better off taking the M50, M5, M6 and M54 (or A55).
    Before covid my daughter regularly travelled for work to Newport by train and it took nearly 4 hours each way

    She did drive occasionally but that was worse

    I have never driven to Cardiff from Llandudno despite living and working in Wales for over 50 years, though I have gone on holiday to Pembrokeshire once
    Not during Drakeford's "county lines" lockdown, before lockdown, I trust.
    Before covid she would travel 2 or 3 times a month to South Wales but of course she is working from home at present

    And she has a stressful job leading a team of advisors at the DWP dealing with universal credit
    I was referring to your jolly to Tenby!
    Sorry, misunderstood you
  • Are we looking at another excel spreadsheet balls up?

    I hope so, the fact they haven't released the deaths figures usually is a pointer to that.
  • Oh giddy me....

    33,470 new positive cases...of which 30,843 are in England.

    If this isn't a catch up off cases not previously recorded then we're not leaving lockdown in December are we?
    The jump looks rather suss. Days of flat lining in the cases, then a huge spike.
  • gealbhangealbhan Posts: 2,362

    Oh giddy me....

    33,470 new positive cases...of which 30,843 are in England.

    If this isn't a catch up off cases not previously recorded then we're not leaving lockdown in December are we?
    The question was always leaving to what.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    Yorkcity said:

    MrEd said:

    On topic, worth noting the dates above. The 20th November ratification date for Georgia is absolutely key. It's a Friday with Michigan and Pennsylvania the following Monday, Arizona the Monday after that, and Wisconsin / Nevada on the Tuesday.

    If - and it is a massive if - Georgia does find there have been enough miscounted votes, errors and especially mail-in ballots that have been disqualified etc to switch the result, then all Hell is going to break loose. There would then be massive pressure on the other states to follow suit and, if they did not, the question of what state legislatures would do suddenly becomes critical. That's especially the case with Michigan and Pennsylvania, which have Democrat Governors / SoS / Supreme Courts but Republican legislatures.

    The obvious rebut to this is to say they are not going to find enough votes to overturn the results, it's never happened before so it won't happen now. The answer to that is this is an unprecedented election given how votes were cast, and the level of mail-in ballots. Georgia's rejection rate is apparently 0.2%, Pennsylvania's at <0.05%. That compares with 21% of mail-ins for the NY Primary in June or - if you see that as extreme - Georgia's 1% rejection rate for its 2020 primaries or Wisconsin's 2%.

    From a betting standpoint, there has been the message of Biden is an absolute steal at his price. If you are thinking of betting large, just consider the above. </p>

    Are there any miscounted votes in states where Trump won ?.
    As if not this seems like horse shit.
    Point remains. In a normal election, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

    This has not been a normal election re the level of mail-in. It's unprecedented.

    Mail-in rejection rates in the recent past have typically been much higher than now. In fact, high enough to overturn the results.

    Trying to say there is no risk from a full hand-count is too aggressive.

    Do I think Biden has won? Absolutely.

    Do I feel confident enough to pile on Biden at these levels given the background. No.

  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578

    PB used to be a betting site.

    Now it seems to be a platform for very odd people to indulge their weirdest and most outlandish political fantasies.

    Is that like Biden winning 400+ EC votes?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    RobD said:

    Carnyx said:

    RobD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    After England's 4 week lockdown should we stop the Welsh from coming into England bringing the pox with them?

    Given the research showing that much of the current Welsh pox came from England, that would be ironic.
    You what....80% came from Spain....

    https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.10.25.20219063v1.full.pdf
    MaxPB said:

    Carnyx said:

    After England's 4 week lockdown should we stop the Welsh from coming into England bringing the pox with them?

    Given the research showing that much of the current Welsh pox came from England, that would be ironic.
    Pretty sure it was Spain.
    It may well have come from Spain originally, but that's like blaning the Chinese for it. In this case there was a research project doing family tree wortk to trace the different strains/mutations/variations in the Welsh outbreak and it said a majority came from England. We discussed it on PB at the time, incoluding a link to the research report - my memory of 80% may well be wrong but it was about that level.
    Yep, this is it - or one version of it. I find I was thinking of the summer outbreaks. Plenty from overseas but mediated via rUK. Haven't got time to reread it (work calls) but it should be borne in mind that if these lineages had not come over the border they would not haqve caused outbreaks. At least one other PBer couldn't grasp that point. (We're not talking direct competition between virus lineages within hosts, as that needs far greater levekls of infection within the population.)

    https://gov.wales/sars-cov-2-genomic-insights-cover-statement-html
    Lineages such as UK389 and UK395 have never been seen before in Wales and have arrived in the August-September timescale to cause considerable numbers of cases in multiple locations, simultaneously. Examining these new arrival lineages reveals that they have arrived in many parts of the UK simultaneously, presenting a signature that is consistent with the idea that these lineages have been seeded by multiple simultaneous imports from outside Wales/the UK.

    So introduced from abroad, not from England.
    Originally, yes, But not necessarily into Wales at the time. That original document we discussed did show a map of that kind - which surprised m e because one would expect more introduction fropm say Spain and less of a signal over the border. That's what i remember and we did then discuss it.
    The idea that the current outbreak in Wales was caused by the English is inconsistent with that part of the document. It came from abroad into multiple places in the UK simultaneously.
    Wording is acvtually compatible with both happening. But we really need that docuiment we discussed earlier this year to see that map I remember.
    https://gov.wales/sites/default/files/publications/2020-10/sars-cov-2-genomic-insights-october-2020_0.pdf

    ppp 4-5 refer. I think this is a summary of the earluer work that we were discussing back when. Anyway they do consider import over the border significant - inclouding import from the Med first to England. As both you and I expect, some oif it would be direct to eg Cardiff Airport, but a non-trivial proportion over the border. Which is the rationale for closing it - in either direction.
    I think the issue with trying to link the import to England rather ignores where the English go when they holiday in Wales. I.e. not the places that are worst hit. You don't see many holiday cottages in the old industrial heartlands... By contrast, the areas round Pembrokeshire where I went in September, were and are almost Covid free.
    To mention Cardiff airport is missing the point that I do not know anyone who uses Cardiff Airport.

    Manchester, Liverpool and Heathrow account for the vast majority of flights from North Wales.

    I do accept that some visitors from England may well have passed on covid into parts of Wales but as has been said the places they visit have generally low rates of infection, ie Gwynedd, Meirionnydd and Pembrokeshire
    Bristol Airport has lots of flights to sunshine locations.
    I was talking in the context of North Wales

    South Wales is almost a different country in transport access from the North
    Try going South to North, and vice- versa. Better off taking the M50, M5, M6 and M54 (or A55).
    Before covid my daughter regularly travelled for work to Newport by train and it took nearly 4 hours each way

    She did drive occasionally but that was worse

    I have never driven to Cardiff from Llandudno despite living and working in Wales for over 50 years, though I have gone on holiday to Pembrokeshire once
    Not during Drakeford's "county lines" lockdown, before lockdown, I trust.
    Before covid she would travel 2 or 3 times a month to South Wales but of course she is working from home at present

    And she has a stressful job leading a team of advisors at the DWP dealing with universal credit
    I was referring to your jolly to Tenby!
    Sorry, misunderstood you
    I misunderstand myself most of the time.
  • Alistair said:

    Ah, I see we are doing fan fic again.

    Nothing wrong with fan fic: The Aeneid is fan fic. Dante's Inferno is self-inset fan fic.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    MrEd said:

    PB used to be a betting site.

    Now it seems to be a platform for very odd people to indulge their weirdest and most outlandish political fantasies.

    Is that like Biden winning 400+ EC votes?
    Take the L and move on.
  • There were also 377,608 tests carried out so the positivity rate was 8.8% - up a bit the last 7 days 7.4%, but hardly the end of the world.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992

    Oh giddy me....

    33,470 new positive cases...of which 30,843 are in England.

    Aren't we testing 0.5m people/day now?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,459

    Are we looking at another excel spreadsheet balls up?

    And again - date of test, not date of reporting...
  • Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    RobD said:

    Carnyx said:

    RobD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    After England's 4 week lockdown should we stop the Welsh from coming into England bringing the pox with them?

    Given the research showing that much of the current Welsh pox came from England, that would be ironic.
    You what....80% came from Spain....

    https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.10.25.20219063v1.full.pdf
    MaxPB said:

    Carnyx said:

    After England's 4 week lockdown should we stop the Welsh from coming into England bringing the pox with them?

    Given the research showing that much of the current Welsh pox came from England, that would be ironic.
    Pretty sure it was Spain.
    It may well have come from Spain originally, but that's like blaning the Chinese for it. In this case there was a research project doing family tree wortk to trace the different strains/mutations/variations in the Welsh outbreak and it said a majority came from England. We discussed it on PB at the time, incoluding a link to the research report - my memory of 80% may well be wrong but it was about that level.
    Yep, this is it - or one version of it. I find I was thinking of the summer outbreaks. Plenty from overseas but mediated via rUK. Haven't got time to reread it (work calls) but it should be borne in mind that if these lineages had not come over the border they would not haqve caused outbreaks. At least one other PBer couldn't grasp that point. (We're not talking direct competition between virus lineages within hosts, as that needs far greater levekls of infection within the population.)

    https://gov.wales/sars-cov-2-genomic-insights-cover-statement-html
    Lineages such as UK389 and UK395 have never been seen before in Wales and have arrived in the August-September timescale to cause considerable numbers of cases in multiple locations, simultaneously. Examining these new arrival lineages reveals that they have arrived in many parts of the UK simultaneously, presenting a signature that is consistent with the idea that these lineages have been seeded by multiple simultaneous imports from outside Wales/the UK.

    So introduced from abroad, not from England.
    Originally, yes, But not necessarily into Wales at the time. That original document we discussed did show a map of that kind - which surprised m e because one would expect more introduction fropm say Spain and less of a signal over the border. That's what i remember and we did then discuss it.
    The idea that the current outbreak in Wales was caused by the English is inconsistent with that part of the document. It came from abroad into multiple places in the UK simultaneously.
    Wording is acvtually compatible with both happening. But we really need that docuiment we discussed earlier this year to see that map I remember.
    https://gov.wales/sites/default/files/publications/2020-10/sars-cov-2-genomic-insights-october-2020_0.pdf

    ppp 4-5 refer. I think this is a summary of the earluer work that we were discussing back when. Anyway they do consider import over the border significant - inclouding import from the Med first to England. As both you and I expect, some oif it would be direct to eg Cardiff Airport, but a non-trivial proportion over the border. Which is the rationale for closing it - in either direction.
    I think the issue with trying to link the import to England rather ignores where the English go when they holiday in Wales. I.e. not the places that are worst hit. You don't see many holiday cottages in the old industrial heartlands... By contrast, the areas round Pembrokeshire where I went in September, were and are almost Covid free.
    To mention Cardiff airport is missing the point that I do not know anyone who uses Cardiff Airport.

    Manchester, Liverpool and Heathrow account for the vast majority of flights from North Wales.

    I do accept that some visitors from England may well have passed on covid into parts of Wales but as has been said the places they visit have generally low rates of infection, ie Gwynedd, Meirionnydd and Pembrokeshire
    Bristol Airport has lots of flights to sunshine locations.
    I was talking in the context of North Wales

    South Wales is almost a different country in transport access from the North
    Try going South to North, and vice- versa. Better off taking the M50, M5, M6 and M54 (or A55).
    Before covid my daughter regularly travelled for work to Newport by train and it took nearly 4 hours each way

    She did drive occasionally but that was worse

    I have never driven to Cardiff from Llandudno despite living and working in Wales for over 50 years, though I have gone on holiday to Pembrokeshire once
    Not during Drakeford's "county lines" lockdown, before lockdown, I trust.
    Before covid she would travel 2 or 3 times a month to South Wales but of course she is working from home at present

    And she has a stressful job leading a team of advisors at the DWP dealing with universal credit
    I was referring to your jolly to Tenby!
    Sorry, misunderstood you
    I misunderstand myself most of the time.
    I doubt it to be honest
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,222
    "Disputed" is far too soft. Come on Twitter.

    "A lie".
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,136
    Some good news for Trump re his legacy at least

    https://twitter.com/sullydish/status/1326902077231083520?s=20
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868

    Are we looking at another excel spreadsheet balls up?

    No, the specimen day data and regional specimen data tells the story. This is within the range of expectations because it's backfilling Monday and Tuesday specimen days which is weekend spillover.

    If I was going to be harsh, I'd say this is the first sign of the lockdown effect which has a sugar rush of infections as people do a months worth of shopping, eating and drinking in a few days and see as many friends as possible before lockdown is imposed. Monday and Tuesday's specimens will have come from people who got infected on the 1st-4th of November.

    The next 3-5 days worth of numbers in England will have this effect already baked in before we see some kind of drop.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,100
    edited November 2020
    TOPPING said:

    Oh giddy me....

    33,470 new positive cases...of which 30,843 are in England.

    Aren't we testing 0.5m people/day now?
    No thats capacity. Testing ~350k a day.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    MrEd said:

    PB used to be a betting site.

    Now it seems to be a platform for very odd people to indulge their weirdest and most outlandish political fantasies.

    Is that like Biden winning 400+ EC votes?
    Yes, who forecast this? Certainly not me or you –  we were far, far more wrong, picking the incorrect winner!

    Neither of us are in any position to find fault with others – we were the worst performing tipsters on PB.

  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,459
    edited November 2020
    I also wonder a bit about Liverpool - presumably positives from there are included?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    I think it's time for a good white burgundy.

    In fact I know it is.
  • gealbhangealbhan Posts: 2,362
    Why don’t you take evidence into court Donald? The more you tweet the more people realise your tweets and your court cases are not the same thing.

    Just a reminder though anyone who lies in court goes to jail.

    Trouble getting lawyers since they asked for payment up front?
  • JACK_WJACK_W Posts: 682

    PB used to be a betting site.

    Now it seems to be a platform for very odd people to indulge their weirdest and most outlandish political fantasies.

    Enough of the Scottish LibDems ....
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,100
    edited November 2020

    I also wonder a bit about Liverpool - presumably positives from there are included?

    Good point....which column are the "rapid testing" positives going in? As the announced ones are normally totals from Pillar 1 and 2.
  • MaxPB said:

    Are we looking at another excel spreadsheet balls up?

    No, the specimen day data and regional specimen data tells the story. This is within the range of expectations because it's backfilling Monday and Tuesday specimen days which is weekend spillover.

    If I was going to be harsh, I'd say this is the first sign of the lockdown effect which has a sugar rush of infections as people do a months worth of shopping, eating and drinking in a few days and see as many friends as possible before lockdown is imposed. Monday and Tuesday's specimens will have come from people who got infected on the 1st-4th of November.

    The next 3-5 days worth of numbers in England will have this effect already baked in before we see some kind of drop.
    Makes sense
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    HYUFD said:

    Some good news for Trump re his legacy at least

    https://twitter.com/sullydish/status/1326902077231083520?s=20

    This is very interesting.
    The general bien pensant view is that Trump’s tax cuts went overwhelmingly to the very rich.
    Yet this is a median number.

    Are there any theories?
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    Alistair said:

    MrEd said:

    PB used to be a betting site.

    Now it seems to be a platform for very odd people to indulge their weirdest and most outlandish political fantasies.

    Is that like Biden winning 400+ EC votes?
    Take the L and move on.
    :) I wish Ladbrokes would just pay up so I can move on.
  • Data from the Government-run REACT mass-testing study today said it had seen a 'slowdown' in the spread of the virus at the start of this month, while scientists behind the Covid Symptom Study estimate the R number to now be below one.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8942973/Britain-records-33-470-new-Covid-19-cases.html
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    rpjs said:

    MrEd said:

    On topic, worth noting the dates above. The 20th November ratification date for Georgia is absolutely key. It's a Friday with Michigan and Pennsylvania the following Monday, Arizona the Monday after that, and Wisconsin / Nevada on the Tuesday.

    If - and it is a massive if - Georgia does find there have been enough miscounted votes, errors and especially mail-in ballots that have been disqualified etc to switch the result, then all Hell is going to break loose. There would then be massive pressure on the other states to follow suit and, if they did not, the question of what state legislatures would do suddenly becomes critical. That's especially the case with Michigan and Pennsylvania, which have Democrat Governors / SoS / Supreme Courts but Republican legislatures.

    The obvious rebut to this is to say they are not going to find enough votes to overturn the results, it's never happened before so it won't happen now. The answer to that is this is an unprecedented election given how votes were cast, and the level of mail-in ballots. Georgia's rejection rate is apparently 0.2%, Pennsylvania's at <0.05%. That compares with 21% of mail-ins for the NY Primary in June or - if you see that as extreme - Georgia's 1% rejection rate for its 2020 primaries or Wisconsin's 2%.

    From a betting standpoint, there has been the message of Biden is an absolute steal at his price. If you are thinking of betting large, just consider the above. </p>

    Mate, it's over. Your man lost. Leave it.
    Of course it's over. He lost.
    It's whether I would confident piling on Biden at what he is on now which some have suggested, And at large amounts.
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382
    rpjs said:

    MrEd said:

    On topic, worth noting the dates above. The 20th November ratification date for Georgia is absolutely key. It's a Friday with Michigan and Pennsylvania the following Monday, Arizona the Monday after that, and Wisconsin / Nevada on the Tuesday.

    If - and it is a massive if - Georgia does find there have been enough miscounted votes, errors and especially mail-in ballots that have been disqualified etc to switch the result, then all Hell is going to break loose. There would then be massive pressure on the other states to follow suit and, if they did not, the question of what state legislatures would do suddenly becomes critical. That's especially the case with Michigan and Pennsylvania, which have Democrat Governors / SoS / Supreme Courts but Republican legislatures.

    The obvious rebut to this is to say they are not going to find enough votes to overturn the results, it's never happened before so it won't happen now. The answer to that is this is an unprecedented election given how votes were cast, and the level of mail-in ballots. Georgia's rejection rate is apparently 0.2%, Pennsylvania's at <0.05%. That compares with 21% of mail-ins for the NY Primary in June or - if you see that as extreme - Georgia's 1% rejection rate for its 2020 primaries or Wisconsin's 2%.

    From a betting standpoint, there has been the message of Biden is an absolute steal at his price. If you are thinking of betting large, just consider the above. </p>

    Mate, it's over. Your man lost. Leave it.
    He lost by over 5 million votes.
    Hate to think what would have occurred if he had lost by just over 500 votes in Florida.As the Al Gore in 2000.
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042

    HYUFD said:

    Some good news for Trump re his legacy at least

    https://twitter.com/sullydish/status/1326902077231083520?s=20

    This is very interesting.
    The general bien pensant view is that Trump’s tax cuts went overwhelmingly to the very rich.
    Yet this is a median number.

    Are there any theories?
    The economy grew, people got richer, Trump got more credit than he deserved just as he (and other Presidents) get more blame than they deserve when economies turn sour.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578

    MrEd said:

    PB used to be a betting site.

    Now it seems to be a platform for very odd people to indulge their weirdest and most outlandish political fantasies.

    Is that like Biden winning 400+ EC votes?
    Yes, who forecast this? Certainly not me or you –  we were far, far more wrong, picking the incorrect winner!

    Neither of us are in any position to find fault with others – we were the worst performing tipsters on PB.

    I don't think we were the worst. I said a victory close to where he got in 2016 but a narrow win, not a blowout.

    I don't think you said 400+ EC votes.

    There were some people on claiming Senate seats like Alaska, Montana and SC would go Democrat. That was pretty off.

  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,165
    edited November 2020
    That histrionic outburst already has 147k likes in half an hour. The problem and potential pitfalls of a lunatic in charge still hasn't quite gone away yet.
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042

    There were also 377,608 tests carried out so the positivity rate was 8.8% - up a bit the last 7 days 7.4%, but hardly the end of the world.
    I remember when we had our positive % well below 0.5%. Alas.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,165
    edited November 2020

    HYUFD said:

    Some good news for Trump re his legacy at least

    https://twitter.com/sullydish/status/1326902077231083520?s=20

    This is very interesting.
    The general bien pensant view is that Trump’s tax cuts went overwhelmingly to the very rich.
    Yet this is a median number.

    Are there any theories?
    Vast military spending may have something to do with it. It also included spending on military-related infrastructure across the country, as I understand it.
  • HYUFD said:

    Some good news for Trump re his legacy at least

    https://twitter.com/sullydish/status/1326902077231083520?s=20

    Incredibly dodgy cherry-picking to choose 1999 as the start point, because there was no growth in US real median household income at all in the following ten years due to the dot-com crash and financial crash. By the time Trump took over from Obama, there was robust growth in incomes... which in fairness continued under Trump (although query how much that's fueled by a large and unsustainable budget deficit).

    I think it's very early to assess Trump's economic legacy. He was President in good economic times (extreme turbulence of the past nine months aside), but the extent to which that was because of or despite him is probably only one that will become clear much later.
  • TOPPING said:

    Oh giddy me....

    33,470 new positive cases...of which 30,843 are in England.

    Aren't we testing 0.5m people/day now?
    377,608 reported yesterday.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    ...

    HYUFD said:

    Some good news for Trump re his legacy at least

    https://twitter.com/sullydish/status/1326902077231083520?s=20

    This is very interesting.
    The general bien pensant view is that Trump’s tax cuts went overwhelmingly to the very rich.
    Yet this is a median number.

    Are there any theories?
    The bien pensant view was Trump haters saying what they wanted to be true?
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    There was a conversation a bit earlier about another Scotland vote.

    Unlike many on here I don’t take the view that on such critical matters (see also Brexit) one can just decide things with a simple, one-off majority vote. To take the point to absurdity, what if the 2014 referendum had been carried by just one vote?

    Nor do I think that, having voted in 2014, it is appropriate to be having another vote any time soon. Although “once every generation” carries no legal weight, ever twenty years does not seem unreasonable for a question of this magnitude.

    Extending the franchise to 16+ was worth about 0.5% in favour of Indy and I’ve no idea why this was granted.

    I do also think it is worth looking at granting a vote to anyone born in Scotland who wishes to register as such. I do not know whether this would help or hinder independence, but I often wonder how I’d feel if my homeland (NZ) voted for some irrevocable break-up. I would certainly want a say in that, despite not living there for 20 years.
  • MaxPB said:

    Are we looking at another excel spreadsheet balls up?

    No, the specimen day data and regional specimen data tells the story. This is within the range of expectations because it's backfilling Monday and Tuesday specimen days which is weekend spillover.

    If I was going to be harsh, I'd say this is the first sign of the lockdown effect which has a sugar rush of infections as people do a months worth of shopping, eating and drinking in a few days and see as many friends as possible before lockdown is imposed. Monday and Tuesday's specimens will have come from people who got infected on the 1st-4th of November.

    The next 3-5 days worth of numbers in England will have this effect already baked in before we see some kind of drop.
    I certainly visited 5 pubs in 3 days from 2-4 November. Don't seem to have caught anything though.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    HYUFD said:

    Some good news for Trump re his legacy at least

    https://twitter.com/sullydish/status/1326902077231083520?s=20

    Insane tweet and article.

    Trump absolutely ballooned the deficit. Obama consistently cut it.
  • HYUFD said:

    Some good news for Trump re his legacy at least

    https://twitter.com/sullydish/status/1326902077231083520?s=20

    Incredibly dodgy cherry-picking to choose 1999 as the start point, because there was no growth in US real median household income at all in the following ten years due to the dot-com crash and financial crash. By the time Trump took over from Obama, there was robust growth in incomes... which in fairness continued under Trump (although query how much that's fueled by a large and unsustainable budget deficit).

    I think it's very early to assess Trump's economic legacy. He was President in good economic times (extreme turbulence of the past nine months aside), but the extent to which that was because of or despite him is probably only one that will become clear much later.
    He inherited a strong economy so the normal drill would have been to store up contingencies against tougher times and build up infrastructure and the like. Instead he spent wildly, especially in tax cuts for the wealthy. That's the general charge.

    Whether he is guilty or not....
  • Scott_xP said:

    Are those tallies cases or illegal votes?

    They did find some suspicious electoral activity. In Florida

    https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1326895024219435008

    Ironic if they rerun a state Trump won...
    The Dems should have encouraged a Ronald J Trump to stand.
    Who will run as a soundalike candidate against Dr Gammons?
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    There was a conversation a bit earlier about another Scotland vote.

    Unlike many on here I don’t take the view that on such critical matters (see also Brexit) one can just decide things with a simple, one-off majority vote. To take the point to absurdity, what if the 2014 referendum had been carried by just one vote?

    Nor do I think that, having voted in 2014, it is appropriate to be having another vote any time soon. Although “once every generation” carries no legal weight, ever twenty years does not seem unreasonable for a question of this magnitude.

    Extending the franchise to 16+ was worth about 0.5% in favour of Indy and I’ve no idea why this was granted.

    I do also think it is worth looking at granting a vote to anyone born in Scotland who wishes to register as such. I do not know whether this would help or hinder independence, but I often wonder how I’d feel if my homeland (NZ) voted for some irrevocable break-up. I would certainly want a say in that, despite not living there for 20 years.

    At least Scotland has had a party that believes in leaving in charge the whole time. Imagine Holyrood had no party wanting independence despite nearly (or just over) half the public wanting it
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,671
    edited November 2020
    You'll be all delighted to know I've decided to do a thread on AV this weekend.

    Off to write it now.

    It'll be the second AV thread this month.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    edited November 2020
    What's that? Two Scottish Indy polls on a signle day. It's just too much.

    Panelbase have Sindy up by 1 for 56/44 Yes/No.

    Yes 51%, No 40% with DKs included.
  • You'll be all delighted to know I've decided to do a thread on AV this weekend.

    Off to write it now.

    It'll be the second AV thread this month.

    Cool, but take it easy on the Scottish sub-samples please.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,884

    There was a conversation a bit earlier about another Scotland vote.

    Unlike many on here I don’t take the view that on such critical matters (see also Brexit) one can just decide things with a simple, one-off majority vote. To take the point to absurdity, what if the 2014 referendum had been carried by just one vote?

    Nor do I think that, having voted in 2014, it is appropriate to be having another vote any time soon. Although “once every generation” carries no legal weight, ever twenty years does not seem unreasonable for a question of this magnitude.

    Extending the franchise to 16+ was worth about 0.5% in favour of Indy and I’ve no idea why this was granted.

    I do also think it is worth looking at granting a vote to anyone born in Scotland who wishes to register as such. I do not know whether this would help or hinder independence, but I often wonder how I’d feel if my homeland (NZ) voted for some irrevocable break-up. I would certainly want a say in that, despite not living there for 20 years.

    Quite entitled to hold the views you do: but just one small point: the Scottish franchise has generally been extennded to 16+ as a wider point of public principle - crossparty approval (including Smith Commission). It's Westminster is the holdout here.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,165
    edited November 2020
    Strangely, newspapers like the Guardian are all but ignoring the Cummings/Cain story at the moment, which might have potentially major implications for Brexit, while the Daily Mail are going all out on it.

    Maybe they're worried about coverage also including Carrie, as one half of the conflict, being seen as tabloid-end, personality-politics or soapy, but that could be way off-target.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    Alistair said:

    HYUFD said:

    Some good news for Trump re his legacy at least

    https://twitter.com/sullydish/status/1326902077231083520?s=20

    Insane tweet and article.

    Trump absolutely ballooned the deficit. Obama consistently cut it.
    TBF, Obama started off from the 2008/9 crisis so the only was was down.

    Trump. OTOH, has CV to deal with (although he didn't do anything on the debt before).

    In any event, it's about Household Income not budget deficits.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,364
    UK cases by specimen date

    image
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,884
    Been deleted (the original tweet). What was it?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,364
    UK cases by specimen date and scaled 100k population

    image
This discussion has been closed.