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My bet that Trump won’t concede – politicalbetting.com

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  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,074

    Pulpstar said:

    My GOP to win the house bet is going to end up closer than it should have. Much closer.

    I'd definitely have voted Republican for the House.

    Nancy Pelosi is a left-wing San Francisco Liberal and I find her acidic and charmless.

    It'd be like voting for Glenda Jackson to lead our legislature over here.
    Glenda Jackson was very sympathetic to Theresa May and condemned the way she was treated by her own MPs, in a recent interview. She had a lot of fellow feeling for another female politician, despite political differences. I thought it showed her in a good light.
  • Foxy said:

    A scorched earth policy. Possibly literally.
    Well Esper has not been shy on this.

    "Who’s going to come in behind me? It’s going to be a real ‘yes man.’ And then God help us.”
  • Ronna McDaniel, Chair of the Republican National Committee (RNC), told FOX News commentator Sean Hannity that she has 234 pages containing 500 sworn affidavits alleging 11,000 incidents of various types of voter fraud.

    *Bullshit*

    Plus 11k votes wouldn't even be enough to overturn the result. But it's a lie.
    There was no fraud
    There was only isolated fraud
    There wasn't widespread fraud
    There wasn't enough fraud to affect the outcome in any states <--- you are currently here
    There wasn't enough fraud to affect the presidency
    There may have been fraud, but it can't be legally proven in time
    Trump was also committing fraud
    Biden didn't know about the fraud
    There's so much fraud we can't tell who won so we need a new election (but to keep postal votes and no voter ID)
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    Alistair said:

    Ronna McDaniel, Chair of the Republican National Committee (RNC), told FOX News commentator Sean Hannity that she has 234 pages containing 500 sworn affidavits alleging 11,000 incidents of various types of voter fraud.

    Oh well, it's all over. Better cooly and objectively award this one to Trump.
    It is quite "amusing" (for want of a better and far more appropriate word) how many instinctive Trumpists on here seem to think that we should be impressed by claims of "evidence" of widespread fraud etc from hardcore Trump and GOP loyalists (in this case making the claims on Hannity's show no less - I'm sure he would have gone out of his way and an impartial journalist to challenge the validity of her evidence!)
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 3,949
    edited November 2020

    Just rewatching stuff -

    Margaret : Can - can I just say something, you know, for the future?
    Leo McGarry : Yeah.
    Margaret : I can sign the President's name. I have his signature down pretty good.
    Leo McGarry : You can sign the President's name?
    Margaret : Yeah.
    Leo McGarry : On a document removing him from power and handing it to someone else?
    Margaret : Yeah. Or, do you think the White House Counsel would say that was a bad idea?
    Leo McGarry : I think the White House Counsel would say that's a coup d'etat.
    Margaret : I'd probably end up doing some time for that.
    Leo McGarry : I would think. And what the hell are you doing practicing the President's signature?
    Margaret : It's just for fun.
    Leo McGarry : We've got separation of powers, checks and balances, and Margaret, vetoing things and sending them back to the hill.

    Fun Fact: The actress who played Carol (CJ Cregg's assistant as Press Secretary) became increasingly interested in politics while working on The West Wing and is now a Senior Director of a non-profit 'Justice for Vets' alongside her acting. She got the gang back together for a fundraiser a few years back.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Velpq1x3KNw
  • kamski said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    One for HYFUD
    Alister Jack was 'joking' when he ruled out indyref2 for 40 years

    The Secretary of State for Scotland said he only mentioned the four decade wait for a new vote because the BBC journalist interviewing him had “raised an eyebrow”.
    Obviously had Govid20 on the blower remonstrating at him upsetting the applecart. Rough wooing indeed.

    Well, HYUFD thoroughly approves of Henry VIII's approach to things anyway.
    If the government really wanted to get tough with the nationalists it could do what Beijing is doing this morning where it is removing legislators from the Hong Kong legislature for questioning Beijing's authority, or it could have done what Madrid did in Catalonia in 2017 where it refused to allow any independence referendum, suspended the Catalan Parliament and arrested Catalan nationalist leaders.

    Nationalists should thank themselves lucky they have already had one independence vote and the government is merely saying it will not grant another one until a generation has elapsed
    There's usually a wide range of differing opinions on this site, so I just want to do a quick reality check - is there anyone who doesn't think this kind of comment from HYUFD is completely out of order?
    It is the most revolting comment I have read on this site for some time. As a Scot it made me boil with rage, and my first reaction was to post something extremely intemperate. But once the red mist subsided I decided it was much more productive to store the rage for use later. It is also a useful reminder that the modern Tory party is not only an enemy of Scotland, but an enemy to democracy.
  • alex_ said:

    Alistair said:

    Ronna McDaniel, Chair of the Republican National Committee (RNC), told FOX News commentator Sean Hannity that she has 234 pages containing 500 sworn affidavits alleging 11,000 incidents of various types of voter fraud.

    Oh well, it's all over. Better cooly and objectively award this one to Trump.
    It is quite "amusing" (for want of a better and far more appropriate word) how many instinctive Trumpists on here seem to think that we should be impressed by claims of "evidence" of widespread fraud etc from hardcore Trump and GOP loyalists (in this case making the claims on Hannity's show no less - I'm sure he would have gone out of his way and an impartial journalist to challenge the validity of her evidence!)
    We've got to the point where 500 peoples' eye witness accounts don't actually count for anything if they benefit Trump.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 7,979

    Barnesian said:

    Mike Pence must be a tortured soul, wrestling with his conscience and oath of office.

    His tweets have been non-controversial. He is supporting the Republican Senators in the re-run but that is to be expected.

    He may be the one to prick the bubble by recognising Biden as President-Elect and sacrificing any hope for a run at the Presidency in 2024. Is he an honourable man? What does he really think about Trump and his coup plans?

    He cant meet another woman without his wife being there in case God objects. The man doesn't think.

    McConnell is the more interesting one, likely to be the most powerful republican, and second most powerful US politician if Trump loses, just another Trump lackey if he wins.
    Yes Pence appears to be a weak man and probably doesn't have the balls to confront Trump.
    I notice he has just cancelled his holiday to Florida to stay in Washington. Is this to keep an eye on Trump or because Trump has ordered him to?
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-election-2020/mike-pence-trump-holiday-florida-legal-battle-election-b1720851.html

    The fight back against Trump will be lead by senior Republicans who are willing to sacrifice their career (in four years time) for the future of their country.

    They'll be thinking about it and talking about it now and should show their hand shortly.
  • nichomar said:

    kamski said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    One for HYFUD
    Alister Jack was 'joking' when he ruled out indyref2 for 40 years

    The Secretary of State for Scotland said he only mentioned the four decade wait for a new vote because the BBC journalist interviewing him had “raised an eyebrow”.
    Obviously had Govid20 on the blower remonstrating at him upsetting the applecart. Rough wooing indeed.

    Well, HYUFD thoroughly approves of Henry VIII's approach to things anyway.
    If the government really wanted to get tough with the nationalists it could do what Beijing is doing this morning where it is removing legislators from the Hong Kong legislature for questioning Beijing's authority, or it could have done what Madrid did in Catalonia in 2017 where it refused to allow any independence referendum, suspended the Catalan Parliament and arrested Catalan nationalist leaders.

    Nationalists should thank themselves lucky they have already had one independence vote and the government is merely saying it will not grant another one until a generation has elapsed
    There's usually a wide range of differing opinions on this site, so I just want to do a quick reality check - is there anyone who doesn't think this kind of comment from HYUFD is completely out of order?
    It’s not out of order, it’s short sighted, it displays arrogance and self belief beyond normal but it’s not offensive or factually incorrect.
    It is offensive and factually incorrect to suggest that SNP politicians could be arrested or have legislators arbitrarily removed.

    HYUFD wants Sturgeon arrested for "sedition" except there is no law against sedition. Sedition is legal.

    So factually incorrect. Can't be arrested for something that isn't against the law.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,715
    Roy_G_Biv said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    One for HYFUD
    Alister Jack was 'joking' when he ruled out indyref2 for 40 years

    The Secretary of State for Scotland said he only mentioned the four decade wait for a new vote because the BBC journalist interviewing him had “raised an eyebrow”.
    Obviously had Govid20 on the blower remonstrating at him upsetting the applecart. Rough wooing indeed.

    Well, HYUFD thoroughly approves of Henry VIII's approach to things anyway.
    If the government really wanted to get tough with the nationalists it could do what Beijing is doing this morning where it is removing legislators from the Hong Kong legislature for questioning Beijing's authority, or it could have done what Madrid did in Catalonia in 2017 where it refused to allow any independence referendum, suspended the Catalan Parliament and arrested Catalan nationalist leaders.

    Nationalists should thank themselves lucky they have already had one independence vote and the government is merely saying it will not grant another one until a generation has elapsed
    :D Your arrogance knows no bounds...
    It is the arrogance of nationalists who never accepted the 2014 result which was meant to be a once in a generation referendum I will never apologise for respecting
    All it needs is for a Conservative leader to sign and section 30 order, and you'll be on here like a greased pig, breathlessly extolling the genius and righteousness of the move.
    You're a joke.
    No I would be calling for that leader to be toppled, the Union for me comes above party
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    One for HYFUD
    Alister Jack was 'joking' when he ruled out indyref2 for 40 years

    The Secretary of State for Scotland said he only mentioned the four decade wait for a new vote because the BBC journalist interviewing him had “raised an eyebrow”.
    Obviously had Govid20 on the blower remonstrating at him upsetting the applecart. Rough wooing indeed.

    Well, HYUFD thoroughly approves of Henry VIII's approach to things anyway.
    If the government really wanted to get tough with the nationalists it could do what Beijing is doing this morning where it is removing legislators from the Hong Kong legislature for questioning Beijing's authority, or it could have done what Madrid did in Catalonia in 2017 where it refused to allow any independence referendum, suspended the Catalan Parliament and arrested Catalan nationalist leaders.

    Nationalists should thank themselves lucky they have already had one independence vote and the government is merely saying it will not grant another one until a generation has elapsed
    Where America leads the UK follows......
    No, just no.

    The UK is not the wannabe fascist jackboot state of HYUFD's fevered imagination. Every Tory on this site as far as I know is disgusted by his desire to use violence to suppress the Scots.

    There are many, many Tories on this site who would be sad to see Scotland go if it happens, but wouldn't want to deny democracy or use force to make them stay. That's just HYUFD.
    How do we know? He is a significant office-bearer in the party, so far as I know the only constituency convener on PB, and in a classic Home Counties tory coinstituency. He may be absolutely typical for all we know, and you the outlier, as indeed he keeps arguing.
    He’s a branch chair, was not quick enough to have an excuse.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    One for HYFUD
    Alister Jack was 'joking' when he ruled out indyref2 for 40 years

    The Secretary of State for Scotland said he only mentioned the four decade wait for a new vote because the BBC journalist interviewing him had “raised an eyebrow”.
    Obviously had Govid20 on the blower remonstrating at him upsetting the applecart. Rough wooing indeed.

    Well, HYUFD thoroughly approves of Henry VIII's approach to things anyway.
    If the government really wanted to get tough with the nationalists it could do what Beijing is doing this morning where it is removing legislators from the Hong Kong legislature for questioning Beijing's authority, or it could have done what Madrid did in Catalonia in 2017 where it refused to allow any independence referendum, suspended the Catalan Parliament and arrested Catalan nationalist leaders.

    Nationalists should thank themselves lucky they have already had one independence vote and the government is merely saying it will not grant another one until a generation has elapsed
    :D Your arrogance knows no bounds...
    It is the arrogance of nationalists who never accepted the 2014 result which was meant to be a once in a generation referendum I will never apologise for respecting
    Where are you getting "meant to be" from? Things are in the legislation or they aren't: that is what is meant by rule of law and parliamentary sovereignty and all that stuff which I am guessing you fervently espouse. Pinning your hopes on the obiter dicta of Big Men is what happens in shithole countries.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Ronna McDaniel, Chair of the Republican National Committee (RNC), told FOX News commentator Sean Hannity that she has 234 pages containing 500 sworn affidavits alleging 11,000 incidents of various types of voter fraud.

    *Bullshit*

    Plus 11k votes wouldn't even be enough to overturn the result. But it's a lie.
    There was no fraud
    There was only isolated fraud
    There wasn't widespread fraud
    There wasn't enough fraud to affect the outcome in any states <--- you are currently here
    There wasn't enough fraud to affect the presidency
    There may have been fraud, but it can't be legally proven in time
    Trump was also committing fraud
    Biden didn't know about the fraud
    There's so much fraud we can't tell who won so we need a new election (but to keep postal votes and no voter ID)</p>
    So how much fraud has the TRump lawyers presented in front of judges in court?

    Hint it is a whole number larger than -1 but smaller than 1.

    Oh, and here is one of those type of people who signed a sworn statement - withdrew the statement once he realised there would be a legal consequence for lying. Still manage to raise 130k from gullible morons though first so fair play to the man.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/10/technology/postal-worker-withdraws-claim-that-ballots-were-backdated-in-pennsylvania-officials-say.html
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,559
    Roger said:


    Scott_xP said:
    Looks like a coup attempt to me is all I can say.

    I'm assuming Biden is taking this far more seriously behind the scenes.
    I'm not sure that he will be. There isn't a snowball in Hells chance that this is going anywhere and he knows that. The brightest and most powerful are for Biden. Any serious attempt to do a Mugabe would impoverish the whole country. They'll make sure it goes nowhere. Trump is well and trully finished
    you used to march on demos for Mugabe
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,715

    kamski said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    One for HYFUD
    Alister Jack was 'joking' when he ruled out indyref2 for 40 years

    The Secretary of State for Scotland said he only mentioned the four decade wait for a new vote because the BBC journalist interviewing him had “raised an eyebrow”.
    Obviously had Govid20 on the blower remonstrating at him upsetting the applecart. Rough wooing indeed.

    Well, HYUFD thoroughly approves of Henry VIII's approach to things anyway.
    If the government really wanted to get tough with the nationalists it could do what Beijing is doing this morning where it is removing legislators from the Hong Kong legislature for questioning Beijing's authority, or it could have done what Madrid did in Catalonia in 2017 where it refused to allow any independence referendum, suspended the Catalan Parliament and arrested Catalan nationalist leaders.

    Nationalists should thank themselves lucky they have already had one independence vote and the government is merely saying it will not grant another one until a generation has elapsed
    There's usually a wide range of differing opinions on this site, so I just want to do a quick reality check - is there anyone who doesn't think this kind of comment from HYUFD is completely out of order?
    It is the most revolting comment I have read on this site for some time. As a Scot it made me boil with rage, and my first reaction was to post something extremely intemperate. But once the red mist subsided I decided it was much more productive to store the rage for use later. It is also a useful reminder that the modern Tory party is not only an enemy of Scotland, but an enemy to democracy.
    Scottish nationalists are determined to destroy my sovereign country, if you and them dislike their every whim not being conceded to tough and all to the good
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603
    When January 20th comes Biden should ask all state AGs to push whatever cases they have against Trump and the Trump organisation. Put the fucker in jail, he has no respect for democracy.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,586
    Dura_Ace said:

    Scott_xP said:
    We all know what happens next. A dose of the same for its vassal states.
    Just reading Mayer's book.
    Remarkable journalism.
  • HYUFD said:

    Roy_G_Biv said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    One for HYFUD
    Alister Jack was 'joking' when he ruled out indyref2 for 40 years

    The Secretary of State for Scotland said he only mentioned the four decade wait for a new vote because the BBC journalist interviewing him had “raised an eyebrow”.
    Obviously had Govid20 on the blower remonstrating at him upsetting the applecart. Rough wooing indeed.

    Well, HYUFD thoroughly approves of Henry VIII's approach to things anyway.
    If the government really wanted to get tough with the nationalists it could do what Beijing is doing this morning where it is removing legislators from the Hong Kong legislature for questioning Beijing's authority, or it could have done what Madrid did in Catalonia in 2017 where it refused to allow any independence referendum, suspended the Catalan Parliament and arrested Catalan nationalist leaders.

    Nationalists should thank themselves lucky they have already had one independence vote and the government is merely saying it will not grant another one until a generation has elapsed
    :D Your arrogance knows no bounds...
    It is the arrogance of nationalists who never accepted the 2014 result which was meant to be a once in a generation referendum I will never apologise for respecting
    All it needs is for a Conservative leader to sign and section 30 order, and you'll be on here like a greased pig, breathlessly extolling the genius and righteousness of the move.
    You're a joke.
    No I would be calling for that leader to be toppled, the Union for me comes above party
    I don't believe you. You're a loyalist. You have no ideology. You're a fan, with a scarf and a tattoo, singing sectarian songs with the ultras.
  • The witness that supposedly recounted actually hasn't and he recorded the FBI trying to pressure him into "forgetting" what he saw instead of investigating it. Worth a watch:

    https://twitter.com/JamesOKeefeIII/status/1326323334800437248
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,625

    eristdoof said:

    Foxy said:

    A lot going on today:

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/nov/10/donald-trump-longshot-election-lawsuits

    Trumpers are convinced its been stolen and that their legal challenges will remove the "illegal votes". When you look at the nature of these challenges - and the margin of victory for Biden - its clear these will fail and fail massively. Once it becomes clear that the results stand - results which people are convinced are fraudulent somehow - thats when the shooting starts. To answer @Mysticrose and her "is this Civil War" question - possibly

    As for students, a mass rapid test followed by tight windows of departure sounds great on paper and will be a poorly organised disaster in reality. Students will travel home and take the pox with them with the inevitable results. "Online teaching only from 9th December" - I assume that is for the remainder of term and not into 2021? Universities need student income for accommodation as do private landlords. The government isn't going to cover that so either they send students back in January with the inevitable return of Chernobyl strength Covid hotspots or they try to force students to keep paying full whack for part teaching and full whack for accommodation they aren't allowed to live in.

    My course has been online only for about a month already and the tuition fee is unchanged and neither is it likely to change. 🤷‍♂️ It would be lovely if it did though.
    Why should online teaching be cheaper? In many ways it is more expensive to organise.
    Whether or not it is cheaper, Gallowgate chose a course offering in-person Teaching. Well organised online courses are good, but they suit some students better than others, and I think that if you can commit the time and get yourself to the right location, then in-person courses are better for most students than online ones.

    I think anyone who pays good money for a service and then get offered a different service has a good reason to grumble.

    The counter justification in Corona times, which the Berlin unis are giving, is that if the courses were not held online then the students would not be able to study at all. But our students pay a couple of hundred Euros, not almost 10 grand.
    Eldest Granddaughter is currently doing a postgraduate course around 10 years after her undergrad one . Fortunately she is able to live at home, in the sense that her boyfriend, with whom she lives, is able to afford the rent on the place they are living, and indeed they picked it for that very reason.
    However, she grumbles that she misses being able to easily interact with fellow students, and although a lot of the necessary references are on-line would like to be able to use the library. She also feels that on-line lectures and tutorials are not as useful as being in the same room as the 'instructor'.
    It's also very difficult to do the investigations with people that she needs to do.
    The universities, from my part time masters experience, while I worked, seem to have strongly resisted efforts towards making remote studying/research part of their capabilities.

    The contrast is very strong when you deal with those portions of the sector that actively pursue this - Kellogg College, Oxford for example.
  • Ronna McDaniel, Chair of the Republican National Committee (RNC), told FOX News commentator Sean Hannity that she has 234 pages containing 500 sworn affidavits alleging 11,000 incidents of various types of voter fraud.

    *Bullshit*

    Plus 11k votes wouldn't even be enough to overturn the result. But it's a lie.
    There was no fraud
    There was only isolated fraud
    There wasn't widespread fraud
    There wasn't enough fraud to affect the outcome in any states <--- you are currently here
    There wasn't enough fraud to affect the presidency
    There may have been fraud, but it can't be legally proven in time
    Trump was also committing fraud
    Biden didn't know about the fraud
    There's so much fraud we can't tell who won so we need a new election (but to keep postal votes and no voter ID)</p>
    No.

    There was no fraud
    There was only isolated fraud <---- I am here
    There wasn't widespread fraud
    There wasn't enough fraud to affect the outcome in any states
    There wasn't enough fraud to affect the presidency
    There may have been fraud, but it can't be legally proven in time
    Trump was also committing fraud
    Biden didn't know about the fraud
    There's so much fraud we can't tell who won so we need a new election (but to keep postal votes and no voter ID)

    And the only fraud demonstrated was by Trump supporters.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,715

    nichomar said:

    kamski said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    One for HYFUD
    Alister Jack was 'joking' when he ruled out indyref2 for 40 years

    The Secretary of State for Scotland said he only mentioned the four decade wait for a new vote because the BBC journalist interviewing him had “raised an eyebrow”.
    Obviously had Govid20 on the blower remonstrating at him upsetting the applecart. Rough wooing indeed.

    Well, HYUFD thoroughly approves of Henry VIII's approach to things anyway.
    If the government really wanted to get tough with the nationalists it could do what Beijing is doing this morning where it is removing legislators from the Hong Kong legislature for questioning Beijing's authority, or it could have done what Madrid did in Catalonia in 2017 where it refused to allow any independence referendum, suspended the Catalan Parliament and arrested Catalan nationalist leaders.

    Nationalists should thank themselves lucky they have already had one independence vote and the government is merely saying it will not grant another one until a generation has elapsed
    There's usually a wide range of differing opinions on this site, so I just want to do a quick reality check - is there anyone who doesn't think this kind of comment from HYUFD is completely out of order?
    It’s not out of order, it’s short sighted, it displays arrogance and self belief beyond normal but it’s not offensive or factually incorrect.
    It is offensive and factually incorrect to suggest that SNP politicians could be arrested or have legislators arbitrarily removed.

    HYUFD wants Sturgeon arrested for "sedition" except there is no law against sedition. Sedition is legal.

    So factually incorrect. Can't be arrested for something that isn't against the law.
    Technically treason is against the law, with a maximum sentence of life in prison under the Crime and Disorder Act 1998
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    edited November 2020
    MaxPB said:

    When January 20th comes Biden should ask all state AGs to push whatever cases they have against Trump and the Trump organisation. Put the fucker in jail, he has no respect for democracy.

    Biden has to not put even the remotest bit of pressure on them. He has to not mention it unless asked. And if asked his only statement should be "It is not the place of the President to interfere in the course of justice".
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Look, lets all calm down by arguing about how many holes a straw has

    https://twitter.com/lexaloffle/status/1326453266343849985
  • HYUFD said:

    kamski said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    One for HYFUD
    Alister Jack was 'joking' when he ruled out indyref2 for 40 years

    The Secretary of State for Scotland said he only mentioned the four decade wait for a new vote because the BBC journalist interviewing him had “raised an eyebrow”.
    Obviously had Govid20 on the blower remonstrating at him upsetting the applecart. Rough wooing indeed.

    Well, HYUFD thoroughly approves of Henry VIII's approach to things anyway.
    If the government really wanted to get tough with the nationalists it could do what Beijing is doing this morning where it is removing legislators from the Hong Kong legislature for questioning Beijing's authority, or it could have done what Madrid did in Catalonia in 2017 where it refused to allow any independence referendum, suspended the Catalan Parliament and arrested Catalan nationalist leaders.

    Nationalists should thank themselves lucky they have already had one independence vote and the government is merely saying it will not grant another one until a generation has elapsed
    There's usually a wide range of differing opinions on this site, so I just want to do a quick reality check - is there anyone who doesn't think this kind of comment from HYUFD is completely out of order?
    It is the most revolting comment I have read on this site for some time. As a Scot it made me boil with rage, and my first reaction was to post something extremely intemperate. But once the red mist subsided I decided it was much more productive to store the rage for use later. It is also a useful reminder that the modern Tory party is not only an enemy of Scotland, but an enemy to democracy.
    Scottish nationalists are determined to destroy my sovereign country, if you and them dislike their every whim not being conceded to tough and all to the good
    Why do you want to be in a union with a country you neither like nor understand?
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 7,981
    edited November 2020
    Barnesian said:

    Barnesian said:

    Mike Pence must be a tortured soul, wrestling with his conscience and oath of office.

    His tweets have been non-controversial. He is supporting the Republican Senators in the re-run but that is to be expected.

    He may be the one to prick the bubble by recognising Biden as President-Elect and sacrificing any hope for a run at the Presidency in 2024. Is he an honourable man? What does he really think about Trump and his coup plans?

    He cant meet another woman without his wife being there in case God objects. The man doesn't think.

    McConnell is the more interesting one, likely to be the most powerful republican, and second most powerful US politician if Trump loses, just another Trump lackey if he wins.
    Yes Pence appears to be a weak man and probably doesn't have the balls to confront Trump.
    I notice he has just cancelled his holiday to Florida to stay in Washington. Is this to keep an eye on Trump or because Trump has ordered him to?
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-election-2020/mike-pence-trump-holiday-florida-legal-battle-election-b1720851.html

    The fight back against Trump will be lead by senior Republicans who are willing to sacrifice their career (in four years time) for the future of their country.

    They'll be thinking about it and talking about it now and should show their hand shortly.
    People like Trump do not pick strong-willed, self-confident people as their VP. They look for weak toadys who will echo their own opinions back to them.

    I have no expectations for Pence putting the boot in...
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 24,592

    alex_ said:

    Alistair said:

    Ronna McDaniel, Chair of the Republican National Committee (RNC), told FOX News commentator Sean Hannity that she has 234 pages containing 500 sworn affidavits alleging 11,000 incidents of various types of voter fraud.

    Oh well, it's all over. Better cooly and objectively award this one to Trump.
    It is quite "amusing" (for want of a better and far more appropriate word) how many instinctive Trumpists on here seem to think that we should be impressed by claims of "evidence" of widespread fraud etc from hardcore Trump and GOP loyalists (in this case making the claims on Hannity's show no less - I'm sure he would have gone out of his way and an impartial journalist to challenge the validity of her evidence!)
    We've got to the point where 500 peoples' eye witness accounts don't actually count for anything if they benefit Trump.
    What's the weather like in Moscow today?
  • Alistair said:

    Ronna McDaniel, Chair of the Republican National Committee (RNC), told FOX News commentator Sean Hannity that she has 234 pages containing 500 sworn affidavits alleging 11,000 incidents of various types of voter fraud.

    *Bullshit*

    Plus 11k votes wouldn't even be enough to overturn the result. But it's a lie.
    There was no fraud
    There was only isolated fraud
    There wasn't widespread fraud
    There wasn't enough fraud to affect the outcome in any states <--- you are currently here
    There wasn't enough fraud to affect the presidency
    There may have been fraud, but it can't be legally proven in time
    Trump was also committing fraud
    Biden didn't know about the fraud
    There's so much fraud we can't tell who won so we need a new election (but to keep postal votes and no voter ID)</p>
    So how much fraud has the TRump lawyers presented in front of judges in court?

    Hint it is a whole number larger than -1 but smaller than 1.

    Oh, and here is one of those type of people who signed a sworn statement - withdrew the statement once he realised there would be a legal consequence for lying. Still manage to raise 130k from gullible morons though first so fair play to the man.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/10/technology/postal-worker-withdraws-claim-that-ballots-were-backdated-in-pennsylvania-officials-say.html
    Actually he didn't, watch the video in the twitter link I posted.
  • alex_ said:

    Alistair said:

    Ronna McDaniel, Chair of the Republican National Committee (RNC), told FOX News commentator Sean Hannity that she has 234 pages containing 500 sworn affidavits alleging 11,000 incidents of various types of voter fraud.

    Oh well, it's all over. Better cooly and objectively award this one to Trump.
    It is quite "amusing" (for want of a better and far more appropriate word) how many instinctive Trumpists on here seem to think that we should be impressed by claims of "evidence" of widespread fraud etc from hardcore Trump and GOP loyalists (in this case making the claims on Hannity's show no less - I'm sure he would have gone out of his way and an impartial journalist to challenge the validity of her evidence!)
    We've got to the point where 500 peoples' eye witness accounts don't actually count for anything if they benefit Trump.
    What's the weather like in Moscow today?
    Very much like North Manchester weather apparently.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 8,480
    edited November 2020
    As Alex mentions, whatever happens, the iong-term implications for trust in American democracy as a result of this, are awful.
  • Alistair said:

    Look, lets all calm down by arguing about how many holes a straw has

    https://twitter.com/lexaloffle/status/1326453266343849985

    How does anyone get to two? Idiots. I would say zero but one is understandable if wrong.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Serious LOLs

    https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-usa-johnson-biden-brexit/biden-delivers-brexit-warning-to-pm-johnson-in-post-election-call-ft-idUSKBN27Q33V

    Startlingly omitted from the Downing Street account of the call. So instead of being all about R-E-S-P-E-C-T and special relationships, turns out it was Johnson being given his marching orders over the GFA, and told to take his elbows off the table or he wouldn't get any pudding.

    There will now be a brief intermission while PB Borisites regroup around "Yebbut our man was the first European leader to get pussywhipped."
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,625

    Ronna McDaniel, Chair of the Republican National Committee (RNC), told FOX News commentator Sean Hannity that she has 234 pages containing 500 sworn affidavits alleging 11,000 incidents of various types of voter fraud.

    *Bullshit*

    Plus 11k votes wouldn't even be enough to overturn the result. But it's a lie.
    There was no fraud
    There was only isolated fraud
    There wasn't widespread fraud
    There wasn't enough fraud to affect the outcome in any states <--- you are currently here
    There wasn't enough fraud to affect the presidency
    There may have been fraud, but it can't be legally proven in time
    Trump was also committing fraud
    Biden didn't know about the fraud
    There's so much fraud we can't tell who won so we need a new election (but to keep postal votes and no voter ID)</p>
    No.

    There was no fraud
    There was only isolated fraud <---- I am here
    There wasn't widespread fraud
    There wasn't enough fraud to affect the outcome in any states
    There wasn't enough fraud to affect the presidency
    There may have been fraud, but it can't be legally proven in time
    Trump was also committing fraud
    Biden didn't know about the fraud
    There's so much fraud we can't tell who won so we need a new election (but to keep postal votes and no voter ID)

    And the only fraud demonstrated was by Trump supporters.</p>
    There is fraud in every election.

    Just as there is corruption in every police force on the planet.

    The sane question is - What is the level? A policeman taking a free doughnut offered by a shop keeper, once. Or shooting dead unharmed people on a regular basis, and covering up the crime?

    So far we are at the doughnut level, for the US election.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,725
    kle4 said:

    Foxy said:

    A lot going on today:

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/nov/10/donald-trump-longshot-election-lawsuits

    Trumpers are convinced its been stolen and that their legal challenges will remove the "illegal votes". When you look at the nature of these challenges - and the margin of victory for Biden - its clear these will fail and fail massively. Once it becomes clear that the results stand - results which people are convinced are fraudulent somehow - thats when the shooting starts. To answer @Mysticrose and her "is this Civil War" question - possibly

    As for students, a mass rapid test followed by tight windows of departure sounds great on paper and will be a poorly organised disaster in reality. Students will travel home and take the pox with them with the inevitable results. "Online teaching only from 9th December" - I assume that is for the remainder of term and not into 2021? Universities need student income for accommodation as do private landlords. The government isn't going to cover that so either they send students back in January with the inevitable return of Chernobyl strength Covid hotspots or they try to force students to keep paying full whack for part teaching and full whack for accommodation they aren't allowed to live in.

    My course has been online only for about a month already and the tuition fee is unchanged and neither is it likely to change. 🤷‍♂️ It would be lovely if it did though.
    Why should online teaching be cheaper? In many ways it is more expensive to organise.
    Because it's wank.
    online wanking is cheap to free, it's true.

    Wank does not necessarily mean cheap.

    eg the iphone
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842
    Trump's trial will be THE event for the 2020s. And there's going to be more than one. Tax fraud, sexual assault not to mention Melania rinsing him shortly.

  • It seems a bit premature. When the vaccine first arrives, there will not be enough for everyone anyway.

    Yebbut that's no reason not to pick at a sore spot and irritate and inflame it until it's suppurating with outrage.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,625
    Pulpstar said:

    Trump's trial will be THE event for the 2020s. And there's going to be more than one. Tax fraud, sexual assault not to mention Melania rinsing him shortly.

    Yes - he will be touring the US, state to state. But not in the style to which he is accustomed.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 24,592
    HYUFD said:

    nichomar said:

    kamski said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    One for HYFUD
    Alister Jack was 'joking' when he ruled out indyref2 for 40 years

    The Secretary of State for Scotland said he only mentioned the four decade wait for a new vote because the BBC journalist interviewing him had “raised an eyebrow”.
    Obviously had Govid20 on the blower remonstrating at him upsetting the applecart. Rough wooing indeed.

    Well, HYUFD thoroughly approves of Henry VIII's approach to things anyway.
    If the government really wanted to get tough with the nationalists it could do what Beijing is doing this morning where it is removing legislators from the Hong Kong legislature for questioning Beijing's authority, or it could have done what Madrid did in Catalonia in 2017 where it refused to allow any independence referendum, suspended the Catalan Parliament and arrested Catalan nationalist leaders.

    Nationalists should thank themselves lucky they have already had one independence vote and the government is merely saying it will not grant another one until a generation has elapsed
    There's usually a wide range of differing opinions on this site, so I just want to do a quick reality check - is there anyone who doesn't think this kind of comment from HYUFD is completely out of order?
    It’s not out of order, it’s short sighted, it displays arrogance and self belief beyond normal but it’s not offensive or factually incorrect.
    It is offensive and factually incorrect to suggest that SNP politicians could be arrested or have legislators arbitrarily removed.

    HYUFD wants Sturgeon arrested for "sedition" except there is no law against sedition. Sedition is legal.

    So factually incorrect. Can't be arrested for something that isn't against the law.
    Technically treason is against the law, with a maximum sentence of life in prison under the Crime and Disorder Act 1998
    Lock her up?
  • kamskikamski Posts: 4,199

    Foxy said:

    A scorched earth policy. Possibly literally.
    Well Esper has not been shy on this.

    "Who’s going to come in behind me? It’s going to be a real ‘yes man.’ And then God help us.”
    Although I'm not sure what orders Trump could give to the military. He could try and get the military to stop the security services escorting Trump from the White House on 20th of January - but by then it would be too late and even if the military made some pretense of following such orders, it wouldn't make any difference to Biden becoming president and then the military following Biden's orders.

    Once 270 electors have voted for Biden in the electoral college it's all over. I'm not sure what orders Trump can give to the Pentagon to stop that?

    I think it's mostly score-settling and theatrics. Sacking everyone at the Pentagon is a way to spread a bit more confusion and doubt.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,092
      

    HYUFD said:

    kamski said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    One for HYFUD
    Alister Jack was 'joking' when he ruled out indyref2 for 40 years

    The Secretary of State for Scotland said he only mentioned the four decade wait for a new vote because the BBC journalist interviewing him had “raised an eyebrow”.
    Obviously had Govid20 on the blower remonstrating at him upsetting the applecart. Rough wooing indeed.

    Well, HYUFD thoroughly approves of Henry VIII's approach to things anyway.
    If the government really wanted to get tough with the nationalists it could do what Beijing is doing this morning where it is removing legislators from the Hong Kong legislature for questioning Beijing's authority, or it could have done what Madrid did in Catalonia in 2017 where it refused to allow any independence referendum, suspended the Catalan Parliament and arrested Catalan nationalist leaders.

    Nationalists should thank themselves lucky they have already had one independence vote and the government is merely saying it will not grant another one until a generation has elapsed
    There's usually a wide range of differing opinions on this site, so I just want to do a quick reality check - is there anyone who doesn't think this kind of comment from HYUFD is completely out of order?
    It is the most revolting comment I have read on this site for some time. As a Scot it made me boil with rage, and my first reaction was to post something extremely intemperate. But once the red mist subsided I decided it was much more productive to store the rage for use later. It is also a useful reminder that the modern Tory party is not only an enemy of Scotland, but an enemy to democracy.
    Scottish nationalists are determined to destroy my sovereign country, if you and them dislike their every whim not being conceded to tough and all to the good
    Why do you want to be in a union with a country you neither like nor understand?
    Hang on. Some of us here in Scotland like the union.

  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Alistair said:

    Look, lets all calm down by arguing about how many holes a straw has

    https://twitter.com/lexaloffle/status/1326453266343849985

    How does anyone get to two? Idiots. I would say zero but one is understandable if wrong.
    How do you get to 2 holes for a straw but only 1 for a washer.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,082
    HYUFD said:

    Roy_G_Biv said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    One for HYFUD
    Alister Jack was 'joking' when he ruled out indyref2 for 40 years

    The Secretary of State for Scotland said he only mentioned the four decade wait for a new vote because the BBC journalist interviewing him had “raised an eyebrow”.
    Obviously had Govid20 on the blower remonstrating at him upsetting the applecart. Rough wooing indeed.

    Well, HYUFD thoroughly approves of Henry VIII's approach to things anyway.
    If the government really wanted to get tough with the nationalists it could do what Beijing is doing this morning where it is removing legislators from the Hong Kong legislature for questioning Beijing's authority, or it could have done what Madrid did in Catalonia in 2017 where it refused to allow any independence referendum, suspended the Catalan Parliament and arrested Catalan nationalist leaders.

    Nationalists should thank themselves lucky they have already had one independence vote and the government is merely saying it will not grant another one until a generation has elapsed
    :D Your arrogance knows no bounds...
    It is the arrogance of nationalists who never accepted the 2014 result which was meant to be a once in a generation referendum I will never apologise for respecting
    All it needs is for a Conservative leader to sign and section 30 order, and you'll be on here like a greased pig, breathlessly extolling the genius and righteousness of the move.
    You're a joke.
    No I would be calling for that leader to be toppled, the Union for me comes above party
    A Union maintained by force is not a Union. It is an Empire.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,155

    Alistair said:

    Look, lets all calm down by arguing about how many holes a straw has

    https://twitter.com/lexaloffle/status/1326453266343849985

    How does anyone get to two? Idiots. I would say zero but one is understandable if wrong.
    It does rather assume a cup has a handle.

    But surely a straw has one hole - it's topologically thee same as a polo mint or doughnut (agaion assuming the latter is the kind with a hole).

    My instinctive reaction is to reach back to my school maths topology - how many cuts does it need to erase any holes? - and here 'one' is the answer.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,155
    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Roy_G_Biv said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    One for HYFUD
    Alister Jack was 'joking' when he ruled out indyref2 for 40 years

    The Secretary of State for Scotland said he only mentioned the four decade wait for a new vote because the BBC journalist interviewing him had “raised an eyebrow”.
    Obviously had Govid20 on the blower remonstrating at him upsetting the applecart. Rough wooing indeed.

    Well, HYUFD thoroughly approves of Henry VIII's approach to things anyway.
    If the government really wanted to get tough with the nationalists it could do what Beijing is doing this morning where it is removing legislators from the Hong Kong legislature for questioning Beijing's authority, or it could have done what Madrid did in Catalonia in 2017 where it refused to allow any independence referendum, suspended the Catalan Parliament and arrested Catalan nationalist leaders.

    Nationalists should thank themselves lucky they have already had one independence vote and the government is merely saying it will not grant another one until a generation has elapsed
    :D Your arrogance knows no bounds...
    It is the arrogance of nationalists who never accepted the 2014 result which was meant to be a once in a generation referendum I will never apologise for respecting
    All it needs is for a Conservative leader to sign and section 30 order, and you'll be on here like a greased pig, breathlessly extolling the genius and righteousness of the move.
    You're a joke.
    No I would be calling for that leader to be toppled, the Union for me comes above party
    A Union maintained by force is not a Union. It is an Empire.
    I think he wants a coup against Mr Johnson now, actually. The way Mr J is going with NI etc.
  • Cyclefree said:

    Pulpstar said:

    My GOP to win the house bet is going to end up closer than it should have. Much closer.

    I'd definitely have voted Republican for the House.

    Nancy Pelosi is a left-wing San Francisco Liberal and I find her acidic and charmless.

    It'd be like voting for Glenda Jackson to lead our legislature over here.
    Glenda Jackson was very sympathetic to Theresa May and condemned the way she was treated by her own MPs, in a recent interview. She had a lot of fellow feeling for another female politician, despite political differences. I thought it showed her in a good light.
    Maybe, she was excoriating about Margaret Thatcher though - just days after she died.

    I thought that was rather unpleasant.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Alistair said:

    Ronna McDaniel, Chair of the Republican National Committee (RNC), told FOX News commentator Sean Hannity that she has 234 pages containing 500 sworn affidavits alleging 11,000 incidents of various types of voter fraud.

    *Bullshit*

    Plus 11k votes wouldn't even be enough to overturn the result. But it's a lie.
    There was no fraud
    There was only isolated fraud
    There wasn't widespread fraud
    There wasn't enough fraud to affect the outcome in any states <--- you are currently here
    There wasn't enough fraud to affect the presidency
    There may have been fraud, but it can't be legally proven in time
    Trump was also committing fraud
    Biden didn't know about the fraud
    There's so much fraud we can't tell who won so we need a new election (but to keep postal votes and no voter ID)</p>
    So how much fraud has the TRump lawyers presented in front of judges in court?

    Hint it is a whole number larger than -1 but smaller than 1.

    Oh, and here is one of those type of people who signed a sworn statement - withdrew the statement once he realised there would be a legal consequence for lying. Still manage to raise 130k from gullible morons though first so fair play to the man.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/10/technology/postal-worker-withdraws-claim-that-ballots-were-backdated-in-pennsylvania-officials-say.html
    Actually he didn't, watch the video in the twitter link I posted.
    I eagerly await its production in a court of law then. So far, bizarrely the Trump campaign have not presented any evidence of fraud.

    Just weird, what with all this evidence they have that they are not using any of it in a court of law. Do you have insight on their legal strategy where they don't present any evidence of fraud?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    Quincel said:

    Just rewatching stuff -

    Margaret : Can - can I just say something, you know, for the future?
    Leo McGarry : Yeah.
    Margaret : I can sign the President's name. I have his signature down pretty good.
    Leo McGarry : You can sign the President's name?
    Margaret : Yeah.
    Leo McGarry : On a document removing him from power and handing it to someone else?
    Margaret : Yeah. Or, do you think the White House Counsel would say that was a bad idea?
    Leo McGarry : I think the White House Counsel would say that's a coup d'etat.
    Margaret : I'd probably end up doing some time for that.
    Leo McGarry : I would think. And what the hell are you doing practicing the President's signature?
    Margaret : It's just for fun.
    Leo McGarry : We've got separation of powers, checks and balances, and Margaret, vetoing things and sending them back to the hill.

    Fun Fact: The actress who played Carol (CJ Cregg's assistant as Press Secretary) became increasingly interested in politics while working on The West Wing and is now a Senior Director of a non-profit 'Justice for Vets' alongside her acting. She got the gang back together for a fundraiser a few years back.

    vid deleted
    That was v funny - "Justice for Vets" immediately conjured up an image of James Herriott-types needing assistance or down and out City centre vets overwhelmed by stray dogs dumped on their practice doorsteps.

    Oh...*those* type of vets. Gotit.

    Nice use of Nimrod also.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,155
    Alistair said:

    Alistair said:

    Look, lets all calm down by arguing about how many holes a straw has

    https://twitter.com/lexaloffle/status/1326453266343849985

    How does anyone get to two? Idiots. I would say zero but one is understandable if wrong.
    How do you get to 2 holes for a straw but only 1 for a washer.
    A hole at one enjd and a hole at the other. Think the human body (ignoring inconvenient internal details of the nasopharyngeal cavity and larynx).
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,854
    felix said:

    DavidL said:

    Pulpstar said:

    My GOP to win the house bet is going to end up closer than it should have. Much closer.

    I find the House map fascinating: https://results.decisiondeskhq.com/

    Its almost a sea of red with strips of blue where significant numbers of people actually live. Its a vivid demonstration of how the US is divided and how little common ground there is.
    Town versus country, the UK is not that much different
    It's the same the world over.
    And aint it such a shame.
    It's the rich what cause the problems.
    And the poor what gets the blame.
  • HYUFD said:

    kamski said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    One for HYFUD
    Alister Jack was 'joking' when he ruled out indyref2 for 40 years

    The Secretary of State for Scotland said he only mentioned the four decade wait for a new vote because the BBC journalist interviewing him had “raised an eyebrow”.
    Obviously had Govid20 on the blower remonstrating at him upsetting the applecart. Rough wooing indeed.

    Well, HYUFD thoroughly approves of Henry VIII's approach to things anyway.
    If the government really wanted to get tough with the nationalists it could do what Beijing is doing this morning where it is removing legislators from the Hong Kong legislature for questioning Beijing's authority, or it could have done what Madrid did in Catalonia in 2017 where it refused to allow any independence referendum, suspended the Catalan Parliament and arrested Catalan nationalist leaders.

    Nationalists should thank themselves lucky they have already had one independence vote and the government is merely saying it will not grant another one until a generation has elapsed
    There's usually a wide range of differing opinions on this site, so I just want to do a quick reality check - is there anyone who doesn't think this kind of comment from HYUFD is completely out of order?
    It is the most revolting comment I have read on this site for some time. As a Scot it made me boil with rage, and my first reaction was to post something extremely intemperate. But once the red mist subsided I decided it was much more productive to store the rage for use later. It is also a useful reminder that the modern Tory party is not only an enemy of Scotland, but an enemy to democracy.
    Scottish nationalists are determined to destroy my sovereign country, if you and them dislike their every whim not being conceded to tough and all to the good
    Why do you want to be in a union with a country you neither like nor understand?
    I have called out HYUFD multiple times for his obnoxious, even revolting views on this subject, and it is time these views were reported to CCHQ in view of his position in the party, as they are so divisive and do not represent the view of the vast majority of decent moderate conservatives

    My wife and I have lived with the prospect of Scottish Independence for near the 80 years we have been on this planet and we have always been steadfastly pro the union but I expect, indeed support a second reference if the SNP receive a mandate next May, but do also support the concept of the referendum and a confirmatory referendum once the terms are agreed

    I will also watch with great interest how Joe Biden reacts to the idea that Scotland may leave the Union
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Pulpstar said:

    Trump's trial will be THE event for the 2020s. And there's going to be more than one. Tax fraud, sexual assault not to mention Melania rinsing him shortly.

    There will astonishing pressure in NY not to prosecute Trump for tax fraud. This is because his tax fraud in NY is all property based and a whole stack of NY property developers are looking at Trump's tax documents and looking at their own and tugging their collars nervously. If Trump gets done for it then many many other people are on the chopping block.
  • Alistair said:

    Alistair said:

    Ronna McDaniel, Chair of the Republican National Committee (RNC), told FOX News commentator Sean Hannity that she has 234 pages containing 500 sworn affidavits alleging 11,000 incidents of various types of voter fraud.

    *Bullshit*

    Plus 11k votes wouldn't even be enough to overturn the result. But it's a lie.
    There was no fraud
    There was only isolated fraud
    There wasn't widespread fraud
    There wasn't enough fraud to affect the outcome in any states <--- you are currently here
    There wasn't enough fraud to affect the presidency
    There may have been fraud, but it can't be legally proven in time
    Trump was also committing fraud
    Biden didn't know about the fraud
    There's so much fraud we can't tell who won so we need a new election (but to keep postal votes and no voter ID)</p>
    So how much fraud has the TRump lawyers presented in front of judges in court?

    Hint it is a whole number larger than -1 but smaller than 1.

    Oh, and here is one of those type of people who signed a sworn statement - withdrew the statement once he realised there would be a legal consequence for lying. Still manage to raise 130k from gullible morons though first so fair play to the man.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/10/technology/postal-worker-withdraws-claim-that-ballots-were-backdated-in-pennsylvania-officials-say.html
    Actually he didn't, watch the video in the twitter link I posted.
    I eagerly await its production in a court of law then. So far, bizarrely the Trump campaign have not presented any evidence of fraud.

    Just weird, what with all this evidence they have that they are not using any of it in a court of law. Do you have insight on their legal strategy where they don't present any evidence of fraud?
    They've presented the evidence with the 500 eye witnesses of electoral fraud to the Supreme Court. What do you think they should do?
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518

    alex_ said:

    Alistair said:

    Ronna McDaniel, Chair of the Republican National Committee (RNC), told FOX News commentator Sean Hannity that she has 234 pages containing 500 sworn affidavits alleging 11,000 incidents of various types of voter fraud.

    Oh well, it's all over. Better cooly and objectively award this one to Trump.
    It is quite "amusing" (for want of a better and far more appropriate word) how many instinctive Trumpists on here seem to think that we should be impressed by claims of "evidence" of widespread fraud etc from hardcore Trump and GOP loyalists (in this case making the claims on Hannity's show no less - I'm sure he would have gone out of his way and an impartial journalist to challenge the validity of her evidence!)
    We've got to the point where 500 peoples' eye witness accounts don't actually count for anything if they benefit Trump.
    "Eye witness" accounts of what? Isn't it about time the Republicans started including these in some of these laughable court cases they are instigating. Ones that judges are throwing out at the moment when they are discovering that the "eye witness accounts" are as credible as hearsay of hearsay of evidence of something that might be dodgy?

    Ones where judges are asking the Trump lawyers if they are saying that the cases before them indicate accusations of fraud and are being told, er, "no they they don't have evidence of that".
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 7,981
    edited November 2020
    IshmaelZ said:

    Foxy said:

    Stocky said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    BBC Radio Five Live is currently hosting a phone-in show about whether or not people should be "obliged" to take the Covid-19 vaccine. One person phoning the programme has called for people who refuse to take it to be "detained".

    Nah, let natural selection get to work on the antivaxers.
    Really? Frustrating natural selection is pretty much your job description, if you think about it. Also, vaccines are pure homeopathy - take a tiny dose of the thing which does harm in the first place - and the government vaccine czar has thoughtfully warned us of the danger of freak harm from them. Broth all the way for me.
    Homeopathy isn`t a tiny dose of anything - it`s just water. Absolutely cannot be compared to a vaccine.
    Its advocates claim that homeopathy was over 25 times more effective at treating the Spanish Flu than allopathic remedies (found that and lots more delights here http://chironhealthcare.com/homoeopathy-explained/ ), I think we ought to look into it. Interestingly, if you quack and say “allopathy” at the same time it sounds a lot like “proper medicine”.
    There is an interesting theory that many Spanish Flu deaths were iatrogenic due to fatal overdose of Asprin. It is quite possible that some would have survived better with sugar water.

    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/10/091002132346.htm
    “It’s better for you than a fatal overdose” is the best argument for homeopathy I’ve ever heard, and I’ve heard plenty of others.
    There are other good ones. Why get your placebo effect from an SSRI when you can get it from water is one, and (in favour of the NHS offering it) an NHS homeopath is less likely than a full-on fruitloop practitioner to prescribe homeopathic remedies for, say, ovarian cancer.
    A friend of mine rejected normal medicine for her cancer and went for alternative treatment. Her funeral is next week. Another friend had a similar cancer about the same time and had surgery/chemo/radiotherapy and is now racing on sailing yachts at the weekend.

    My cousin's father-in-law went for alternative medicine for his colon cancer. We buried him a couple of years ago. In his final days he said he had been "... a bl**dy fool..."
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Carnyx said:

    Alistair said:

    Look, lets all calm down by arguing about how many holes a straw has

    https://twitter.com/lexaloffle/status/1326453266343849985

    How does anyone get to two? Idiots. I would say zero but one is understandable if wrong.
    It does rather assume a cup has a handle.

    But surely a straw has one hole - it's topologically thee same as a polo mint or doughnut (agaion assuming the latter is the kind with a hole).

    My instinctive reaction is to reach back to my school maths topology - how many cuts does it need to erase any holes? - and here 'one' is the answer.
    If you plug one end of a straw it is topologically equivalent to a (handleless) cup, so unplugged it must have n+1 holes where a cup has n.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Roy_G_Biv said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    One for HYFUD
    Alister Jack was 'joking' when he ruled out indyref2 for 40 years

    The Secretary of State for Scotland said he only mentioned the four decade wait for a new vote because the BBC journalist interviewing him had “raised an eyebrow”.
    Obviously had Govid20 on the blower remonstrating at him upsetting the applecart. Rough wooing indeed.

    Well, HYUFD thoroughly approves of Henry VIII's approach to things anyway.
    If the government really wanted to get tough with the nationalists it could do what Beijing is doing this morning where it is removing legislators from the Hong Kong legislature for questioning Beijing's authority, or it could have done what Madrid did in Catalonia in 2017 where it refused to allow any independence referendum, suspended the Catalan Parliament and arrested Catalan nationalist leaders.

    Nationalists should thank themselves lucky they have already had one independence vote and the government is merely saying it will not grant another one until a generation has elapsed
    :D Your arrogance knows no bounds...
    It is the arrogance of nationalists who never accepted the 2014 result which was meant to be a once in a generation referendum I will never apologise for respecting
    All it needs is for a Conservative leader to sign and section 30 order, and you'll be on here like a greased pig, breathlessly extolling the genius and righteousness of the move.
    You're a joke.
    No I would be calling for that leader to be toppled, the Union for me comes above party
    A Union maintained by force is not a Union. It is an Empire.
    So the United States became an Empire in 1865?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,155

    HYUFD said:

    kamski said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    One for HYFUD
    Alister Jack was 'joking' when he ruled out indyref2 for 40 years

    The Secretary of State for Scotland said he only mentioned the four decade wait for a new vote because the BBC journalist interviewing him had “raised an eyebrow”.
    Obviously had Govid20 on the blower remonstrating at him upsetting the applecart. Rough wooing indeed.

    Well, HYUFD thoroughly approves of Henry VIII's approach to things anyway.
    If the government really wanted to get tough with the nationalists it could do what Beijing is doing this morning where it is removing legislators from the Hong Kong legislature for questioning Beijing's authority, or it could have done what Madrid did in Catalonia in 2017 where it refused to allow any independence referendum, suspended the Catalan Parliament and arrested Catalan nationalist leaders.

    Nationalists should thank themselves lucky they have already had one independence vote and the government is merely saying it will not grant another one until a generation has elapsed
    There's usually a wide range of differing opinions on this site, so I just want to do a quick reality check - is there anyone who doesn't think this kind of comment from HYUFD is completely out of order?
    It is the most revolting comment I have read on this site for some time. As a Scot it made me boil with rage, and my first reaction was to post something extremely intemperate. But once the red mist subsided I decided it was much more productive to store the rage for use later. It is also a useful reminder that the modern Tory party is not only an enemy of Scotland, but an enemy to democracy.
    Scottish nationalists are determined to destroy my sovereign country, if you and them dislike their every whim not being conceded to tough and all to the good
    Why do you want to be in a union with a country you neither like nor understand?
    I have called out HYUFD multiple times for his obnoxious, even revolting views on this subject, and it is time these views were reported to CCHQ in view of his position in the party, as they are so divisive and do not represent the view of the vast majority of decent moderate conservatives

    My wife and I have lived with the prospect of Scottish Independence for near the 80 years we have been on this planet and we have always been steadfastly pro the union but I expect, indeed support a second reference if the SNP receive a mandate next May, but do also support the concept of the referendum and a confirmatory referendum once the terms are agreed

    I will also watch with great interest how Joe Biden reacts to the idea that Scotland may leave the Union
    I would differ on some details ( the SNP alreadsy have a triple mandate in Holyrood, Westminster and the popular vote whern the Greens are remembered) but this is much more reasonable and decent. Thank you.
  • alex_ said:

    alex_ said:

    Alistair said:

    Ronna McDaniel, Chair of the Republican National Committee (RNC), told FOX News commentator Sean Hannity that she has 234 pages containing 500 sworn affidavits alleging 11,000 incidents of various types of voter fraud.

    Oh well, it's all over. Better cooly and objectively award this one to Trump.
    It is quite "amusing" (for want of a better and far more appropriate word) how many instinctive Trumpists on here seem to think that we should be impressed by claims of "evidence" of widespread fraud etc from hardcore Trump and GOP loyalists (in this case making the claims on Hannity's show no less - I'm sure he would have gone out of his way and an impartial journalist to challenge the validity of her evidence!)
    We've got to the point where 500 peoples' eye witness accounts don't actually count for anything if they benefit Trump.
    "Eye witness" accounts of what? Isn't it about time the Republicans started including these in some of these laughable court cases they are instigating. Ones that judges are throwing out at the moment when they are discovering that the "eye witness accounts" are as credible as hearsay of hearsay of evidence of something that might be dodgy?

    Ones where judges are asking the Trump lawyers if they are saying that the cases before them indicate accusations of fraud and are being told, er, "no they they don't have evidence of that".
    Which ones have the Supreme Court thrown out?
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    Pulpstar said:

    MAGA twitter is convinced there is a coup going on AGAINST the president.
    Do the following thought experiment - Take what you know of the situation, reverse Biden for Trump. That's where Trump's base is at right now.

    And that the genius of the Trump machine. If they do act, they will be claiming some form of equivalence.

    Trump is bound to try something. The question is what and whether senior republicans will go along with it.
  • Carnyx said:

    Alistair said:

    Look, lets all calm down by arguing about how many holes a straw has

    https://twitter.com/lexaloffle/status/1326453266343849985

    How does anyone get to two? Idiots. I would say zero but one is understandable if wrong.
    It does rather assume a cup has a handle.

    But surely a straw has one hole - it's topologically thee same as a polo mint or doughnut (agaion assuming the latter is the kind with a hole).

    My instinctive reaction is to reach back to my school maths topology - how many cuts does it need to erase any holes? - and here 'one' is the answer.
    Agreed. But to my mind the body of the straw is so thin that it doesn't make sense to think of the interior as a hole. I mean, if you laid out a piece of string in a circle with a one mile diameter, would you describe what it enclosed as a hole? Intuitively, a hole needs to be small relative to what encloses for it to be a hole. In terms of formal mathematics what I am saying is probably bollocks though.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 24,592
    Jonathan said:

    Pulpstar said:

    MAGA twitter is convinced there is a coup going on AGAINST the president.
    Do the following thought experiment - Take what you know of the situation, reverse Biden for Trump. That's where Trump's base is at right now.

    And that the genius of the Trump machine. If they do act, they will be claiming some form of equivalence.

    Trump is bound to try something. The question is what and whether senior republicans will go along with it.
    When Wray and Haspel are replaced by Don Jnr. and Eric, will the GOP go along with that?
  • RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    edited November 2020

    Roger said:


    Scott_xP said:
    Looks like a coup attempt to me is all I can say.

    I'm assuming Biden is taking this far more seriously behind the scenes.
    I'm not sure that he will be. There isn't a snowball in Hells chance that this is going anywhere and he knows that. The brightest and most powerful are for Biden. Any serious attempt to do a Mugabe would impoverish the whole country. They'll make sure it goes nowhere. Trump is well and trully finished
    you used to march on demos for Mugabe
    Demos for Mugabe were a bit early for me. Mandela and South Africa were more my time.I guess they all looked the same as you peered out of the window of 'Haze of Dope' on Oxford Road?
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 4,793
    HYUFD said:
    Steve Baker Veterinary Expert:
    "It's unfair on your dog to put one of those cones on it. If they have stitches, they should be able to worry at them. It's healthier for them to get access to the stitches."
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,155
    IshmaelZ said:

    Carnyx said:

    Alistair said:

    Look, lets all calm down by arguing about how many holes a straw has

    https://twitter.com/lexaloffle/status/1326453266343849985

    How does anyone get to two? Idiots. I would say zero but one is understandable if wrong.
    It does rather assume a cup has a handle.

    But surely a straw has one hole - it's topologically thee same as a polo mint or doughnut (agaion assuming the latter is the kind with a hole).

    My instinctive reaction is to reach back to my school maths topology - how many cuts does it need to erase any holes? - and here 'one' is the answer.
    If you plug one end of a straw it is topologically equivalent to a (handleless) cup, so unplugged it must have n+1 holes where a cup has n.
    Ah, see where you are coming frrom. But a handleless cup is topologically equivalent to a tennis ball. No holes. Holes have to be all the way through, elser a gol;f ball would have dozens with all the dimples.

    The rule I was taught is, think about the shape in plasticine, and if you can get from shape A to B without poking any new holes-all-the-way-through in the plasticine, or closing up any holes in the plasticine, they have the same holiness (I forget the technical term - 'equivalence' maybe?).
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,092
    Is holes in straws the new angels on pinheads?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    IshmaelZ said:

    Foxy said:

    Stocky said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    BBC Radio Five Live is currently hosting a phone-in show about whether or not people should be "obliged" to take the Covid-19 vaccine. One person phoning the programme has called for people who refuse to take it to be "detained".

    Nah, let natural selection get to work on the antivaxers.
    Really? Frustrating natural selection is pretty much your job description, if you think about it. Also, vaccines are pure homeopathy - take a tiny dose of the thing which does harm in the first place - and the government vaccine czar has thoughtfully warned us of the danger of freak harm from them. Broth all the way for me.
    Homeopathy isn`t a tiny dose of anything - it`s just water. Absolutely cannot be compared to a vaccine.
    Its advocates claim that homeopathy was over 25 times more effective at treating the Spanish Flu than allopathic remedies (found that and lots more delights here http://chironhealthcare.com/homoeopathy-explained/ ), I think we ought to look into it. Interestingly, if you quack and say “allopathy” at the same time it sounds a lot like “proper medicine”.
    There is an interesting theory that many Spanish Flu deaths were iatrogenic due to fatal overdose of Asprin. It is quite possible that some would have survived better with sugar water.

    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/10/091002132346.htm
    “It’s better for you than a fatal overdose” is the best argument for homeopathy I’ve ever heard, and I’ve heard plenty of others.
    There are other good ones. Why get your placebo effect from an SSRI when you can get it from water is one, and (in favour of the NHS offering it) an NHS homeopath is less likely than a full-on fruitloop practitioner to prescribe homeopathic remedies for, say, ovarian cancer.
    A friend of mine rejected normal medicine for her cancer and went for alternative treatment. Her funeral is next week. Another friend had a similar cancer about the same time and had surgery/chemo/radiotherapy and is now racing on sailing yachts at the weekend.

    My cousin's father-in-law went for alternative medicine for his colon cancer. We buried him a couple of years ago. In his final days he said he had been "... a bl**dy fool..."
    Yes, I went for the big pharma, cut and poison, non holistic approach to colon cancer. Even better I got so bored of reading that big pharma was exploiting me, I thought I'd buy some of the action in the form of GSK shares, which apprciated mightily over the course of the treatment.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,155

    Carnyx said:

    Alistair said:

    Look, lets all calm down by arguing about how many holes a straw has

    https://twitter.com/lexaloffle/status/1326453266343849985

    How does anyone get to two? Idiots. I would say zero but one is understandable if wrong.
    It does rather assume a cup has a handle.

    But surely a straw has one hole - it's topologically thee same as a polo mint or doughnut (agaion assuming the latter is the kind with a hole).

    My instinctive reaction is to reach back to my school maths topology - how many cuts does it need to erase any holes? - and here 'one' is the answer.
    Agreed. But to my mind the body of the straw is so thin that it doesn't make sense to think of the interior as a hole. I mean, if you laid out a piece of string in a circle with a one mile diameter, would you describe what it enclosed as a hole? Intuitively, a hole needs to be small relative to what encloses for it to be a hole. In terms of formal mathematics what I am saying is probably bollocks though.
    I would be more polite! But yes, a circle the size of a Iain M. Banks orbital is still a one-holer ...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,715
    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Roy_G_Biv said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    One for HYFUD
    Alister Jack was 'joking' when he ruled out indyref2 for 40 years

    The Secretary of State for Scotland said he only mentioned the four decade wait for a new vote because the BBC journalist interviewing him had “raised an eyebrow”.
    Obviously had Govid20 on the blower remonstrating at him upsetting the applecart. Rough wooing indeed.

    Well, HYUFD thoroughly approves of Henry VIII's approach to things anyway.
    If the government really wanted to get tough with the nationalists it could do what Beijing is doing this morning where it is removing legislators from the Hong Kong legislature for questioning Beijing's authority, or it could have done what Madrid did in Catalonia in 2017 where it refused to allow any independence referendum, suspended the Catalan Parliament and arrested Catalan nationalist leaders.

    Nationalists should thank themselves lucky they have already had one independence vote and the government is merely saying it will not grant another one until a generation has elapsed
    :D Your arrogance knows no bounds...
    It is the arrogance of nationalists who never accepted the 2014 result which was meant to be a once in a generation referendum I will never apologise for respecting
    All it needs is for a Conservative leader to sign and section 30 order, and you'll be on here like a greased pig, breathlessly extolling the genius and righteousness of the move.
    You're a joke.
    No I would be calling for that leader to be toppled, the Union for me comes above party
    A Union maintained by force is not a Union. It is an Empire.
    It isn't retained by force, Scots voted 55% to stay in the UK in 2014 in a 'once in a generation' referendum
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 7,979

    Barnesian said:

    Barnesian said:

    Mike Pence must be a tortured soul, wrestling with his conscience and oath of office.

    His tweets have been non-controversial. He is supporting the Republican Senators in the re-run but that is to be expected.

    He may be the one to prick the bubble by recognising Biden as President-Elect and sacrificing any hope for a run at the Presidency in 2024. Is he an honourable man? What does he really think about Trump and his coup plans?

    He cant meet another woman without his wife being there in case God objects. The man doesn't think.

    McConnell is the more interesting one, likely to be the most powerful republican, and second most powerful US politician if Trump loses, just another Trump lackey if he wins.
    Yes Pence appears to be a weak man and probably doesn't have the balls to confront Trump.
    I notice he has just cancelled his holiday to Florida to stay in Washington. Is this to keep an eye on Trump or because Trump has ordered him to?
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-election-2020/mike-pence-trump-holiday-florida-legal-battle-election-b1720851.html

    The fight back against Trump will be lead by senior Republicans who are willing to sacrifice their career (in four years time) for the future of their country.

    They'll be thinking about it and talking about it now and should show their hand shortly.
    People like Trump do not pick strong-willed, self-confident people as their VP. They look for weak toadys who will echo their own opinions back to them.

    I have no expectations for Pence putting the boot in...
    But the US needs a Brutus. Who else is there?
    I'm sure Biden is waiting for a senior Republican to put the knife in.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,586
    .
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    One for HYFUD
    Alister Jack was 'joking' when he ruled out indyref2 for 40 years

    The Secretary of State for Scotland said he only mentioned the four decade wait for a new vote because the BBC journalist interviewing him had “raised an eyebrow”.
    Obviously had Govid20 on the blower remonstrating at him upsetting the applecart. Rough wooing indeed.

    Well, HYUFD thoroughly approves of Henry VIII's approach to things anyway.
    If the government really wanted to get tough with the nationalists it could do what Beijing is doing this morning where it is removing legislators from the Hong Kong legislature for questioning Beijing's authority, or it could have done what Madrid did in Catalonia in 2017 where it refused to allow any independence referendum, suspended the Catalan Parliament and arrested Catalan nationalist leaders.

    Nationalists should thank themselves lucky they have already had one independence vote and the government is merely saying it will not grant another one until a generation has elapsed
    And we should think ourselves lucky we'll have the chance to chuck your lot out rather earlier than that.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    HYUFD said:

    Roy_G_Biv said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    One for HYFUD
    Alister Jack was 'joking' when he ruled out indyref2 for 40 years

    The Secretary of State for Scotland said he only mentioned the four decade wait for a new vote because the BBC journalist interviewing him had “raised an eyebrow”.
    Obviously had Govid20 on the blower remonstrating at him upsetting the applecart. Rough wooing indeed.

    Well, HYUFD thoroughly approves of Henry VIII's approach to things anyway.
    If the government really wanted to get tough with the nationalists it could do what Beijing is doing this morning where it is removing legislators from the Hong Kong legislature for questioning Beijing's authority, or it could have done what Madrid did in Catalonia in 2017 where it refused to allow any independence referendum, suspended the Catalan Parliament and arrested Catalan nationalist leaders.

    Nationalists should thank themselves lucky they have already had one independence vote and the government is merely saying it will not grant another one until a generation has elapsed
    :D Your arrogance knows no bounds...
    It is the arrogance of nationalists who never accepted the 2014 result which was meant to be a once in a generation referendum I will never apologise for respecting
    All it needs is for a Conservative leader to sign and section 30 order, and you'll be on here like a greased pig, breathlessly extolling the genius and righteousness of the move.
    You're a joke.
    No I would be calling for that leader to be toppled, the Union for me comes above party
    Did you call for Cameron to be toppled when he allowed the first one?

  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,559
    Roger said:

    Roger said:


    Scott_xP said:
    Looks like a coup attempt to me is all I can say.

    I'm assuming Biden is taking this far more seriously behind the scenes.
    I'm not sure that he will be. There isn't a snowball in Hells chance that this is going anywhere and he knows that. The brightest and most powerful are for Biden. Any serious attempt to do a Mugabe would impoverish the whole country. They'll make sure it goes nowhere. Trump is well and trully finished
    you used to march on demos for Mugabe
    Demos for Mugabe were a bit early for me. Mandela and South Africa were more my time.I guess they all looked the same as you peered out of the window of 'Haze of Dope' on Oxford Road?
    With all this marching Roger I cant help but think youre a secret Orangeman
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Alistair said:

    Alistair said:

    Ronna McDaniel, Chair of the Republican National Committee (RNC), told FOX News commentator Sean Hannity that she has 234 pages containing 500 sworn affidavits alleging 11,000 incidents of various types of voter fraud.

    *Bullshit*

    Plus 11k votes wouldn't even be enough to overturn the result. But it's a lie.
    There was no fraud
    There was only isolated fraud
    There wasn't widespread fraud
    There wasn't enough fraud to affect the outcome in any states <--- you are currently here
    There wasn't enough fraud to affect the presidency
    There may have been fraud, but it can't be legally proven in time
    Trump was also committing fraud
    Biden didn't know about the fraud
    There's so much fraud we can't tell who won so we need a new election (but to keep postal votes and no voter ID)</p>
    So how much fraud has the TRump lawyers presented in front of judges in court?

    Hint it is a whole number larger than -1 but smaller than 1.

    Oh, and here is one of those type of people who signed a sworn statement - withdrew the statement once he realised there would be a legal consequence for lying. Still manage to raise 130k from gullible morons though first so fair play to the man.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/10/technology/postal-worker-withdraws-claim-that-ballots-were-backdated-in-pennsylvania-officials-say.html
    Actually he didn't, watch the video in the twitter link I posted.
    I eagerly await its production in a court of law then. So far, bizarrely the Trump campaign have not presented any evidence of fraud.

    Just weird, what with all this evidence they have that they are not using any of it in a court of law. Do you have insight on their legal strategy where they don't present any evidence of fraud?
    They've presented the evidence with the 500 eye witnesses of electoral fraud to the Supreme Court. What do you think they should do?
    Who has? Straight to the supreme Court under original jurisdiction? What lawyer has put their name to this?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,715

    HYUFD said:

    kamski said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    One for HYFUD
    Alister Jack was 'joking' when he ruled out indyref2 for 40 years

    The Secretary of State for Scotland said he only mentioned the four decade wait for a new vote because the BBC journalist interviewing him had “raised an eyebrow”.
    Obviously had Govid20 on the blower remonstrating at him upsetting the applecart. Rough wooing indeed.

    Well, HYUFD thoroughly approves of Henry VIII's approach to things anyway.
    If the government really wanted to get tough with the nationalists it could do what Beijing is doing this morning where it is removing legislators from the Hong Kong legislature for questioning Beijing's authority, or it could have done what Madrid did in Catalonia in 2017 where it refused to allow any independence referendum, suspended the Catalan Parliament and arrested Catalan nationalist leaders.

    Nationalists should thank themselves lucky they have already had one independence vote and the government is merely saying it will not grant another one until a generation has elapsed
    There's usually a wide range of differing opinions on this site, so I just want to do a quick reality check - is there anyone who doesn't think this kind of comment from HYUFD is completely out of order?
    It is the most revolting comment I have read on this site for some time. As a Scot it made me boil with rage, and my first reaction was to post something extremely intemperate. But once the red mist subsided I decided it was much more productive to store the rage for use later. It is also a useful reminder that the modern Tory party is not only an enemy of Scotland, but an enemy to democracy.
    Scottish nationalists are determined to destroy my sovereign country, if you and them dislike their every whim not being conceded to tough and all to the good
    Why do you want to be in a union with a country you neither like nor understand?
    I have called out HYUFD multiple times for his obnoxious, even revolting views on this subject, and it is time these views were reported to CCHQ in view of his position in the party, as they are so divisive and do not represent the view of the vast majority of decent moderate conservatives

    My wife and I have lived with the prospect of Scottish Independence for near the 80 years we have been on this planet and we have always been steadfastly pro the union but I expect, indeed support a second reference if the SNP receive a mandate next May, but do also support the concept of the referendum and a confirmatory referendum once the terms are agreed

    I will also watch with great interest how Joe Biden reacts to the idea that Scotland may leave the Union
    Wrong, they are official party policy, ie 2014 was a once in a generation referendum, it is you by agreeing to give the SNP an independence referendum next year who are disagreeing with official policy as affirmed only a few days ago by the Secretary of State for Scotland that 2014 was a 'once in a generation' vote, though of course if Unionists can get a Holyrood majority next year that would be best of all
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 4,793

    Ronna McDaniel, Chair of the Republican National Committee (RNC), told FOX News commentator Sean Hannity that she has 234 pages containing 500 sworn affidavits alleging 11,000 incidents of various types of voter fraud.

    She's got a really thick book, look:


  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,586
    .

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    One for HYFUD
    Alister Jack was 'joking' when he ruled out indyref2 for 40 years

    The Secretary of State for Scotland said he only mentioned the four decade wait for a new vote because the BBC journalist interviewing him had “raised an eyebrow”.
    Obviously had Govid20 on the blower remonstrating at him upsetting the applecart. Rough wooing indeed.

    Well, HYUFD thoroughly approves of Henry VIII's approach to things anyway.
    If the government really wanted to get tough with the nationalists it could do what Beijing is doing this morning where it is removing legislators from the Hong Kong legislature for questioning Beijing's authority, or it could have done what Madrid did in Catalonia in 2017 where it refused to allow any independence referendum, suspended the Catalan Parliament and arrested Catalan nationalist leaders.

    Nationalists should thank themselves lucky they have already had one independence vote and the government is merely saying it will not grant another one until a generation has elapsed
    :D Your arrogance knows no bounds...
    Even I was rather bemused to learn that HYUFD personally interviews aspirant members of his local party to check them for ideological purity.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,715
    alex_ said:

    HYUFD said:

    Roy_G_Biv said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    One for HYFUD
    Alister Jack was 'joking' when he ruled out indyref2 for 40 years

    The Secretary of State for Scotland said he only mentioned the four decade wait for a new vote because the BBC journalist interviewing him had “raised an eyebrow”.
    Obviously had Govid20 on the blower remonstrating at him upsetting the applecart. Rough wooing indeed.

    Well, HYUFD thoroughly approves of Henry VIII's approach to things anyway.
    If the government really wanted to get tough with the nationalists it could do what Beijing is doing this morning where it is removing legislators from the Hong Kong legislature for questioning Beijing's authority, or it could have done what Madrid did in Catalonia in 2017 where it refused to allow any independence referendum, suspended the Catalan Parliament and arrested Catalan nationalist leaders.

    Nationalists should thank themselves lucky they have already had one independence vote and the government is merely saying it will not grant another one until a generation has elapsed
    :D Your arrogance knows no bounds...
    It is the arrogance of nationalists who never accepted the 2014 result which was meant to be a once in a generation referendum I will never apologise for respecting
    All it needs is for a Conservative leader to sign and section 30 order, and you'll be on here like a greased pig, breathlessly extolling the genius and righteousness of the move.
    You're a joke.
    No I would be calling for that leader to be toppled, the Union for me comes above party
    Did you call for Cameron to be toppled when he allowed the first one?

    No as that referendum would settle it for a generation
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,625
    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Foxy said:

    Stocky said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    BBC Radio Five Live is currently hosting a phone-in show about whether or not people should be "obliged" to take the Covid-19 vaccine. One person phoning the programme has called for people who refuse to take it to be "detained".

    Nah, let natural selection get to work on the antivaxers.
    Really? Frustrating natural selection is pretty much your job description, if you think about it. Also, vaccines are pure homeopathy - take a tiny dose of the thing which does harm in the first place - and the government vaccine czar has thoughtfully warned us of the danger of freak harm from them. Broth all the way for me.
    Homeopathy isn`t a tiny dose of anything - it`s just water. Absolutely cannot be compared to a vaccine.
    Its advocates claim that homeopathy was over 25 times more effective at treating the Spanish Flu than allopathic remedies (found that and lots more delights here http://chironhealthcare.com/homoeopathy-explained/ ), I think we ought to look into it. Interestingly, if you quack and say “allopathy” at the same time it sounds a lot like “proper medicine”.
    There is an interesting theory that many Spanish Flu deaths were iatrogenic due to fatal overdose of Asprin. It is quite possible that some would have survived better with sugar water.

    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/10/091002132346.htm
    “It’s better for you than a fatal overdose” is the best argument for homeopathy I’ve ever heard, and I’ve heard plenty of others.
    There are other good ones. Why get your placebo effect from an SSRI when you can get it from water is one, and (in favour of the NHS offering it) an NHS homeopath is less likely than a full-on fruitloop practitioner to prescribe homeopathic remedies for, say, ovarian cancer.
    A friend of mine rejected normal medicine for her cancer and went for alternative treatment. Her funeral is next week. Another friend had a similar cancer about the same time and had surgery/chemo/radiotherapy and is now racing on sailing yachts at the weekend.

    My cousin's father-in-law went for alternative medicine for his colon cancer. We buried him a couple of years ago. In his final days he said he had been "... a bl**dy fool..."
    Yes, I went for the big pharma, cut and poison, non holistic approach to colon cancer. Even better I got so bored of reading that big pharma was exploiting me, I thought I'd buy some of the action in the form of GSK shares, which apprciated mightily over the course of the treatment.
    The most bizarre reaction to the vaccine announcement came from a friend - European, highly educated etc etc.

    She won't take it because... chemicals.

    She survived cancer due to chemotherapy.

    No, she wasn't influenced by the effects of the chemotherapy - she would be perfectly willing to do another round, if required. And no, apparently no amount of scientific evidence on the safety of the vaccine would shake her.
  • Alistair said:

    Alistair said:

    Ronna McDaniel, Chair of the Republican National Committee (RNC), told FOX News commentator Sean Hannity that she has 234 pages containing 500 sworn affidavits alleging 11,000 incidents of various types of voter fraud.

    *Bullshit*

    Plus 11k votes wouldn't even be enough to overturn the result. But it's a lie.
    There was no fraud
    There was only isolated fraud
    There wasn't widespread fraud
    There wasn't enough fraud to affect the outcome in any states <--- you are currently here
    There wasn't enough fraud to affect the presidency
    There may have been fraud, but it can't be legally proven in time
    Trump was also committing fraud
    Biden didn't know about the fraud
    There's so much fraud we can't tell who won so we need a new election (but to keep postal votes and no voter ID)</p>
    So how much fraud has the TRump lawyers presented in front of judges in court?

    Hint it is a whole number larger than -1 but smaller than 1.

    Oh, and here is one of those type of people who signed a sworn statement - withdrew the statement once he realised there would be a legal consequence for lying. Still manage to raise 130k from gullible morons though first so fair play to the man.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/10/technology/postal-worker-withdraws-claim-that-ballots-were-backdated-in-pennsylvania-officials-say.html
    Actually he didn't, watch the video in the twitter link I posted.
    I eagerly await its production in a court of law then. So far, bizarrely the Trump campaign have not presented any evidence of fraud.

    Just weird, what with all this evidence they have that they are not using any of it in a court of law. Do you have insight on their legal strategy where they don't present any evidence of fraud?
    They've presented the evidence with the 500 eye witnesses of electoral fraud to the Supreme Court. What do you think they should do?
    You do know the Supreme Court doesn’t work like that, don’t you?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603
  • alex_ said:

    alex_ said:

    Alistair said:

    Ronna McDaniel, Chair of the Republican National Committee (RNC), told FOX News commentator Sean Hannity that she has 234 pages containing 500 sworn affidavits alleging 11,000 incidents of various types of voter fraud.

    Oh well, it's all over. Better cooly and objectively award this one to Trump.
    It is quite "amusing" (for want of a better and far more appropriate word) how many instinctive Trumpists on here seem to think that we should be impressed by claims of "evidence" of widespread fraud etc from hardcore Trump and GOP loyalists (in this case making the claims on Hannity's show no less - I'm sure he would have gone out of his way and an impartial journalist to challenge the validity of her evidence!)
    We've got to the point where 500 peoples' eye witness accounts don't actually count for anything if they benefit Trump.
    "Eye witness" accounts of what? Isn't it about time the Republicans started including these in some of these laughable court cases they are instigating. Ones that judges are throwing out at the moment when they are discovering that the "eye witness accounts" are as credible as hearsay of hearsay of evidence of something that might be dodgy?

    Ones where judges are asking the Trump lawyers if they are saying that the cases before them indicate accusations of fraud and are being told, er, "no they they don't have evidence of that".
    Which ones have the Supreme Court thrown out?
    None. Voting fraud is a state matter so it is none of the SC's business. Courts in states have been dismissing cases and google is your friend.

    As for eye-witnesses... are they like the postal employee who perjured himself and now has $130K from GOP supporters?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,155
    HYUFD said:

    alex_ said:

    HYUFD said:

    Roy_G_Biv said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    One for HYFUD
    Alister Jack was 'joking' when he ruled out indyref2 for 40 years

    The Secretary of State for Scotland said he only mentioned the four decade wait for a new vote because the BBC journalist interviewing him had “raised an eyebrow”.
    Obviously had Govid20 on the blower remonstrating at him upsetting the applecart. Rough wooing indeed.

    Well, HYUFD thoroughly approves of Henry VIII's approach to things anyway.
    If the government really wanted to get tough with the nationalists it could do what Beijing is doing this morning where it is removing legislators from the Hong Kong legislature for questioning Beijing's authority, or it could have done what Madrid did in Catalonia in 2017 where it refused to allow any independence referendum, suspended the Catalan Parliament and arrested Catalan nationalist leaders.

    Nationalists should thank themselves lucky they have already had one independence vote and the government is merely saying it will not grant another one until a generation has elapsed
    :D Your arrogance knows no bounds...
    It is the arrogance of nationalists who never accepted the 2014 result which was meant to be a once in a generation referendum I will never apologise for respecting
    All it needs is for a Conservative leader to sign and section 30 order, and you'll be on here like a greased pig, breathlessly extolling the genius and righteousness of the move.
    You're a joke.
    No I would be calling for that leader to be toppled, the Union for me comes above party
    Did you call for Cameron to be toppled when he allowed the first one?

    No as that referendum would settle it for a generation
    "gewneration" was not in the legislation!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,715
    Nigelb said:

    .

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    One for HYFUD
    Alister Jack was 'joking' when he ruled out indyref2 for 40 years

    The Secretary of State for Scotland said he only mentioned the four decade wait for a new vote because the BBC journalist interviewing him had “raised an eyebrow”.
    Obviously had Govid20 on the blower remonstrating at him upsetting the applecart. Rough wooing indeed.

    Well, HYUFD thoroughly approves of Henry VIII's approach to things anyway.
    If the government really wanted to get tough with the nationalists it could do what Beijing is doing this morning where it is removing legislators from the Hong Kong legislature for questioning Beijing's authority, or it could have done what Madrid did in Catalonia in 2017 where it refused to allow any independence referendum, suspended the Catalan Parliament and arrested Catalan nationalist leaders.

    Nationalists should thank themselves lucky they have already had one independence vote and the government is merely saying it will not grant another one until a generation has elapsed
    :D Your arrogance knows no bounds...
    Even I was rather bemused to learn that HYUFD personally interviews aspirant members of his local party to check them for ideological purity.
    Not me, the Association chairman, I am a branch chairman
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 8,480
    edited November 2020

    IshmaelZ said:

    Foxy said:

    Stocky said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    BBC Radio Five Live is currently hosting a phone-in show about whether or not people should be "obliged" to take the Covid-19 vaccine. One person phoning the programme has called for people who refuse to take it to be "detained".

    Nah, let natural selection get to work on the antivaxers.
    Really? Frustrating natural selection is pretty much your job description, if you think about it. Also, vaccines are pure homeopathy - take a tiny dose of the thing which does harm in the first place - and the government vaccine czar has thoughtfully warned us of the danger of freak harm from them. Broth all the way for me.
    Homeopathy isn`t a tiny dose of anything - it`s just water. Absolutely cannot be compared to a vaccine.
    Its advocates claim that homeopathy was over 25 times more effective at treating the Spanish Flu than allopathic remedies (found that and lots more delights here http://chironhealthcare.com/homoeopathy-explained/ ), I think we ought to look into it. Interestingly, if you quack and say “allopathy” at the same time it sounds a lot like “proper medicine”.
    There is an interesting theory that many Spanish Flu deaths were iatrogenic due to fatal overdose of Asprin. It is quite possible that some would have survived better with sugar water.

    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/10/091002132346.htm
    “It’s better for you than a fatal overdose” is the best argument for homeopathy I’ve ever heard, and I’ve heard plenty of others.
    There are other good ones. Why get your placebo effect from an SSRI when you can get it from water is one, and (in favour of the NHS offering it) an NHS homeopath is less likely than a full-on fruitloop practitioner to prescribe homeopathic remedies for, say, ovarian cancer.
    A friend of mine rejected normal medicine for her cancer and went for alternative treatment. Her funeral is next week. Another friend had a similar cancer about the same time and had surgery/chemo/radiotherapy and is now racing on sailing yachts at the weekend.

    My cousin's father-in-law went for alternative medicine for his colon cancer. We buried him a couple of years ago. In his final days he said he had been "... a bl**dy fool..."
    My experiences with a family member, using a herbal medicine to support hospital treatment, which he was actually advised specifically not to, have been quite different. I'm very wary of blanket dismissals of alternative medicine since then.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,724

    eristdoof said:

    Foxy said:

    A lot going on today:

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/nov/10/donald-trump-longshot-election-lawsuits

    Trumpers are convinced its been stolen and that their legal challenges will remove the "illegal votes". When you look at the nature of these challenges - and the margin of victory for Biden - its clear these will fail and fail massively. Once it becomes clear that the results stand - results which people are convinced are fraudulent somehow - thats when the shooting starts. To answer @Mysticrose and her "is this Civil War" question - possibly

    As for students, a mass rapid test followed by tight windows of departure sounds great on paper and will be a poorly organised disaster in reality. Students will travel home and take the pox with them with the inevitable results. "Online teaching only from 9th December" - I assume that is for the remainder of term and not into 2021? Universities need student income for accommodation as do private landlords. The government isn't going to cover that so either they send students back in January with the inevitable return of Chernobyl strength Covid hotspots or they try to force students to keep paying full whack for part teaching and full whack for accommodation they aren't allowed to live in.

    My course has been online only for about a month already and the tuition fee is unchanged and neither is it likely to change. 🤷‍♂️ It would be lovely if it did though.
    Why should online teaching be cheaper? In many ways it is more expensive to organise.
    Whether or not it is cheaper, Gallowgate chose a course offering in-person Teaching. Well organised online courses are good, but they suit some students better than others, and I think that if you can commit the time and get yourself to the right location, then in-person courses are better for most students than online ones.

    I think anyone who pays good money for a service and then get offered a different service has a good reason to grumble.

    The counter justification in Corona times, which the Berlin unis are giving, is that if the courses were not held online then the students would not be able to study at all. But our students pay a couple of hundred Euros, not almost 10 grand.
    Eldest Granddaughter is currently doing a postgraduate course around 10 years after her undergrad one . Fortunately she is able to live at home, in the sense that her boyfriend, with whom she lives, is able to afford the rent on the place they are living, and indeed they picked it for that very reason.
    However, she grumbles that she misses being able to easily interact with fellow students, and although a lot of the necessary references are on-line would like to be able to use the library. She also feels that on-line lectures and tutorials are not as useful as being in the same room as the 'instructor'.
    It's also very difficult to do the investigations with people that she needs to do.
    The universities, from my part time masters experience, while I worked, seem to have strongly resisted efforts towards making remote studying/research part of their capabilities.

    The contrast is very strong when you deal with those portions of the sector that actively pursue this - Kellogg College, Oxford for example.
    It's 20+ years since my part-time Masters, but I don't recall any problems. Of course the technical situation was very different then.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Roy_G_Biv said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    One for HYFUD
    Alister Jack was 'joking' when he ruled out indyref2 for 40 years

    The Secretary of State for Scotland said he only mentioned the four decade wait for a new vote because the BBC journalist interviewing him had “raised an eyebrow”.
    Obviously had Govid20 on the blower remonstrating at him upsetting the applecart. Rough wooing indeed.

    Well, HYUFD thoroughly approves of Henry VIII's approach to things anyway.
    If the government really wanted to get tough with the nationalists it could do what Beijing is doing this morning where it is removing legislators from the Hong Kong legislature for questioning Beijing's authority, or it could have done what Madrid did in Catalonia in 2017 where it refused to allow any independence referendum, suspended the Catalan Parliament and arrested Catalan nationalist leaders.

    Nationalists should thank themselves lucky they have already had one independence vote and the government is merely saying it will not grant another one until a generation has elapsed
    :D Your arrogance knows no bounds...
    It is the arrogance of nationalists who never accepted the 2014 result which was meant to be a once in a generation referendum I will never apologise for respecting
    All it needs is for a Conservative leader to sign and section 30 order, and you'll be on here like a greased pig, breathlessly extolling the genius and righteousness of the move.
    You're a joke.
    No I would be calling for that leader to be toppled, the Union for me comes above party
    A Union maintained by force is not a Union. It is an Empire.
    It isn't retained by force, Scots voted 55% to stay in the UK in 2014 in a 'once in a generation' referendum
    For someone who is involved in politics, you don't seem to get this "politics" game at all, do you?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,004
    edited November 2020
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kamski said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    One for HYFUD
    Alister Jack was 'joking' when he ruled out indyref2 for 40 years

    The Secretary of State for Scotland said he only mentioned the four decade wait for a new vote because the BBC journalist interviewing him had “raised an eyebrow”.
    Obviously had Govid20 on the blower remonstrating at him upsetting the applecart. Rough wooing indeed.

    Well, HYUFD thoroughly approves of Henry VIII's approach to things anyway.
    If the government really wanted to get tough with the nationalists it could do what Beijing is doing this morning where it is removing legislators from the Hong Kong legislature for questioning Beijing's authority, or it could have done what Madrid did in Catalonia in 2017 where it refused to allow any independence referendum, suspended the Catalan Parliament and arrested Catalan nationalist leaders.

    Nationalists should thank themselves lucky they have already had one independence vote and the government is merely saying it will not grant another one until a generation has elapsed
    There's usually a wide range of differing opinions on this site, so I just want to do a quick reality check - is there anyone who doesn't think this kind of comment from HYUFD is completely out of order?
    It is the most revolting comment I have read on this site for some time. As a Scot it made me boil with rage, and my first reaction was to post something extremely intemperate. But once the red mist subsided I decided it was much more productive to store the rage for use later. It is also a useful reminder that the modern Tory party is not only an enemy of Scotland, but an enemy to democracy.
    Scottish nationalists are determined to destroy my sovereign country, if you and them dislike their every whim not being conceded to tough and all to the good
    Why do you want to be in a union with a country you neither like nor understand?
    I have called out HYUFD multiple times for his obnoxious, even revolting views on this subject, and it is time these views were reported to CCHQ in view of his position in the party, as they are so divisive and do not represent the view of the vast majority of decent moderate conservatives

    My wife and I have lived with the prospect of Scottish Independence for near the 80 years we have been on this planet and we have always been steadfastly pro the union but I expect, indeed support a second reference if the SNP receive a mandate next May, but do also support the concept of the referendum and a confirmatory referendum once the terms are agreed

    I will also watch with great interest how Joe Biden reacts to the idea that Scotland may leave the Union
    Wrong, they are official party policy, ie 2014 was a once in a generation referendum, it is you by agreeing to give the SNP an independence referendum next year who are disagreeing with official policy as affirmed only a few days ago by the Secretary of State for Scotland that 2014 was a 'once in a generation' vote, though of course if Unionists can get a Holyrood majority next year that would be best of all
    What is wrong is your obnoxious attitude to this and by implication driving the very thing you say you do not want

    You are a real threat to the union and indeed to sensible moderate conservatives who are ashamed by you
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 4,911

    kamski said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:
    Biden looked doddery even then...... I'm really not sure he's going to make the distance,
    Trump was elected in 2016 because he wasn't Clinton.
    Biden was elected in 2020 because he wasn't Trump.
    And the big difference between Clinton and Biden?

    Politically they were both top members of Obamas administration. If Biden had run in 2016 his program would have been similar to Clinton's.

    Clinton probably has a better record than Biden, though for sure both can be criticised.

    Scandals : Clinton used the Clinton private server for government emails - which broke rules and reflects badly on her, but nowhere near as bad as the (admittedly fairly run of the mill) Hunter Biden influence peddling.

    Clinton was a bit younger.

    So I'm wondering what the big disadvantage Clinton had as a candidate. Can't think of any other blindingly obvious differences between them.


    Except for the obvious....
    Nobody trusted her ?
    and yet she still polled more votes than Trump
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    So what you are saying is, with the cover given by the polls the Dems could have rigged the ballot to have a blue wave roll all over the country but instead just decided to fraudulently steal the Presidential?
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    HYUFD said:

    alex_ said:

    HYUFD said:

    Roy_G_Biv said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    One for HYFUD
    Alister Jack was 'joking' when he ruled out indyref2 for 40 years

    The Secretary of State for Scotland said he only mentioned the four decade wait for a new vote because the BBC journalist interviewing him had “raised an eyebrow”.
    Obviously had Govid20 on the blower remonstrating at him upsetting the applecart. Rough wooing indeed.

    Well, HYUFD thoroughly approves of Henry VIII's approach to things anyway.
    If the government really wanted to get tough with the nationalists it could do what Beijing is doing this morning where it is removing legislators from the Hong Kong legislature for questioning Beijing's authority, or it could have done what Madrid did in Catalonia in 2017 where it refused to allow any independence referendum, suspended the Catalan Parliament and arrested Catalan nationalist leaders.

    Nationalists should thank themselves lucky they have already had one independence vote and the government is merely saying it will not grant another one until a generation has elapsed
    :D Your arrogance knows no bounds...
    It is the arrogance of nationalists who never accepted the 2014 result which was meant to be a once in a generation referendum I will never apologise for respecting
    All it needs is for a Conservative leader to sign and section 30 order, and you'll be on here like a greased pig, breathlessly extolling the genius and righteousness of the move.
    You're a joke.
    No I would be calling for that leader to be toppled, the Union for me comes above party
    Did you call for Cameron to be toppled when he allowed the first one?

    No as that referendum would settle it for a generation
    But he put the Union at risk by having one? He didn't legally have to. It was a political judgement. There are sane voices arguing that the best way to prevent the inevitability of Scottish Independence is to acquiesce in another one post an SNP landslide next year. But you seem to be of the view that Referendum=Independence. So to even allow one would be almost treasonable for a Tory leader. In which case you are already of the opinion that a referendum can't be won, so settled is the will of the Scottish people.

  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,559
    OllyT said:

    kamski said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:
    Biden looked doddery even then...... I'm really not sure he's going to make the distance,
    Trump was elected in 2016 because he wasn't Clinton.
    Biden was elected in 2020 because he wasn't Trump.
    And the big difference between Clinton and Biden?

    Politically they were both top members of Obamas administration. If Biden had run in 2016 his program would have been similar to Clinton's.

    Clinton probably has a better record than Biden, though for sure both can be criticised.

    Scandals : Clinton used the Clinton private server for government emails - which broke rules and reflects badly on her, but nowhere near as bad as the (admittedly fairly run of the mill) Hunter Biden influence peddling.

    Clinton was a bit younger.

    So I'm wondering what the big disadvantage Clinton had as a candidate. Can't think of any other blindingly obvious differences between them.


    Except for the obvious....
    Nobody trusted her ?
    and yet she still polled more votes than Trump
    but in all the wrong places
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,265
    alex_ said:

    alex_ said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Very easy to forget that at some point in the early 30s Hitler looked like a busted flush. He had already laid enough groundwork by then however to come back when conditions turned.

    I fear for America and the World in 4 years time unless some sanity can return to the GOP. Because the groundwork will already be there. (and emboldened by the 'belief' that the Democrats have won an election on the back of fraudulent activity, even if they can't find the evidence, i wouldn't be confident that there won't be high scale discussions about how Republicans can't start putting in place 'hidden' fraud themselves...)


    My mother grew up in nearby Danziug/Gdansk at the time, and her father worked in Berlin. The parallels are importamt to keep in mind but are not that close. Germany was riddled with paramilitary forces before Hitler took over, and the Nazi regime was able to incorporate and build on them. The Proud Boys and similar groups are trivial by comparison. The will to have a coup does seem to exist among some extreme Trumpists, but the infratructure for it really isn't there, and the pull to normal process is very strong and will I think roll Biden into the White House without very much trouble.

    In 4 years, with Trump campaigning non-stop, his own TV channel, etc., and possibly sustained post-pandemic economic difficulty, that may be different.So the threat shouldn't be simply shrugged off. But it's probably not imminent.
    Isn't that exactly the point i was making? The dangers are medium term on the back of groundwork already in place. Biden will be President. What happens in future is worrying.
    Yes, sorry, I was focusing on the 30s analysis and forgot that you were looking forward in time. In that case, I agree.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    eristdoof said:

    Foxy said:

    A lot going on today:

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/nov/10/donald-trump-longshot-election-lawsuits

    Trumpers are convinced its been stolen and that their legal challenges will remove the "illegal votes". When you look at the nature of these challenges - and the margin of victory for Biden - its clear these will fail and fail massively. Once it becomes clear that the results stand - results which people are convinced are fraudulent somehow - thats when the shooting starts. To answer @Mysticrose and her "is this Civil War" question - possibly

    As for students, a mass rapid test followed by tight windows of departure sounds great on paper and will be a poorly organised disaster in reality. Students will travel home and take the pox with them with the inevitable results. "Online teaching only from 9th December" - I assume that is for the remainder of term and not into 2021? Universities need student income for accommodation as do private landlords. The government isn't going to cover that so either they send students back in January with the inevitable return of Chernobyl strength Covid hotspots or they try to force students to keep paying full whack for part teaching and full whack for accommodation they aren't allowed to live in.

    My course has been online only for about a month already and the tuition fee is unchanged and neither is it likely to change. 🤷‍♂️ It would be lovely if it did though.
    Why should online teaching be cheaper? In many ways it is more expensive to organise.
    Whether or not it is cheaper, Gallowgate chose a course offering in-person Teaching. Well organised online courses are good, but they suit some students better than others, and I think that if you can commit the time and get yourself to the right location, then in-person courses are better for most students than online ones.

    I think anyone who pays good money for a service and then get offered a different service has a good reason to grumble.

    The counter justification in Corona times, which the Berlin unis are giving, is that if the courses were not held online then the students would not be able to study at all. But our students pay a couple of hundred Euros, not almost 10 grand.
    Eldest Granddaughter is currently doing a postgraduate course around 10 years after her undergrad one . Fortunately she is able to live at home, in the sense that her boyfriend, with whom she lives, is able to afford the rent on the place they are living, and indeed they picked it for that very reason.
    However, she grumbles that she misses being able to easily interact with fellow students, and although a lot of the necessary references are on-line would like to be able to use the library. She also feels that on-line lectures and tutorials are not as useful as being in the same room as the 'instructor'.
    It's also very difficult to do the investigations with people that she needs to do.
    The universities, from my part time masters experience, while I worked, seem to have strongly resisted efforts towards making remote studying/research part of their capabilities.

    The contrast is very strong when you deal with those portions of the sector that actively pursue this - Kellogg College, Oxford for example.
    Odd, I would have expected the concept to receive a frosty reception there.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kamski said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    One for HYFUD
    Alister Jack was 'joking' when he ruled out indyref2 for 40 years

    The Secretary of State for Scotland said he only mentioned the four decade wait for a new vote because the BBC journalist interviewing him had “raised an eyebrow”.
    Obviously had Govid20 on the blower remonstrating at him upsetting the applecart. Rough wooing indeed.

    Well, HYUFD thoroughly approves of Henry VIII's approach to things anyway.
    If the government really wanted to get tough with the nationalists it could do what Beijing is doing this morning where it is removing legislators from the Hong Kong legislature for questioning Beijing's authority, or it could have done what Madrid did in Catalonia in 2017 where it refused to allow any independence referendum, suspended the Catalan Parliament and arrested Catalan nationalist leaders.

    Nationalists should thank themselves lucky they have already had one independence vote and the government is merely saying it will not grant another one until a generation has elapsed
    There's usually a wide range of differing opinions on this site, so I just want to do a quick reality check - is there anyone who doesn't think this kind of comment from HYUFD is completely out of order?
    It is the most revolting comment I have read on this site for some time. As a Scot it made me boil with rage, and my first reaction was to post something extremely intemperate. But once the red mist subsided I decided it was much more productive to store the rage for use later. It is also a useful reminder that the modern Tory party is not only an enemy of Scotland, but an enemy to democracy.
    Scottish nationalists are determined to destroy my sovereign country, if you and them dislike their every whim not being conceded to tough and all to the good
    Why do you want to be in a union with a country you neither like nor understand?
    I have called out HYUFD multiple times for his obnoxious, even revolting views on this subject, and it is time these views were reported to CCHQ in view of his position in the party, as they are so divisive and do not represent the view of the vast majority of decent moderate conservatives

    My wife and I have lived with the prospect of Scottish Independence for near the 80 years we have been on this planet and we have always been steadfastly pro the union but I expect, indeed support a second reference if the SNP receive a mandate next May, but do also support the concept of the referendum and a confirmatory referendum once the terms are agreed

    I will also watch with great interest how Joe Biden reacts to the idea that Scotland may leave the Union
    Wrong, they are official party policy, ie 2014 was a once in a generation referendum, it is you by agreeing to give the SNP an independence referendum next year who are disagreeing with official policy as affirmed only a few days ago by the Secretary of State for Scotland that 2014 was a 'once in a generation' vote, though of course if Unionists can get a Holyrood majority next year that would be best of all
    What is wrong is your obnoxious attitude to this and by implication driving the very thing you say you do not want

    You are a real threat to the union and indeed to sensible moderate conservatives who are ashamed by you
    Big G you aren't a Conservative. You want the current leader of the Conservative Party to stand down. At a later date.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842
    Arizona is the heart of the NeverTrump republican movement.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    Alistair said:

    So what you are saying is, with the cover given by the polls the Dems could have rigged the ballot to have a blue wave roll all over the country but instead just decided to fraudulently steal the Presidential?
    And by doing so provided evidence of the fraud that would otherwise have remained hidden!
  • IshmaelZ said:

    Foxy said:

    Stocky said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    BBC Radio Five Live is currently hosting a phone-in show about whether or not people should be "obliged" to take the Covid-19 vaccine. One person phoning the programme has called for people who refuse to take it to be "detained".

    Nah, let natural selection get to work on the antivaxers.
    Really? Frustrating natural selection is pretty much your job description, if you think about it. Also, vaccines are pure homeopathy - take a tiny dose of the thing which does harm in the first place - and the government vaccine czar has thoughtfully warned us of the danger of freak harm from them. Broth all the way for me.
    Homeopathy isn`t a tiny dose of anything - it`s just water. Absolutely cannot be compared to a vaccine.
    Its advocates claim that homeopathy was over 25 times more effective at treating the Spanish Flu than allopathic remedies (found that and lots more delights here http://chironhealthcare.com/homoeopathy-explained/ ), I think we ought to look into it. Interestingly, if you quack and say “allopathy” at the same time it sounds a lot like “proper medicine”.
    There is an interesting theory that many Spanish Flu deaths were iatrogenic due to fatal overdose of Asprin. It is quite possible that some would have survived better with sugar water.

    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/10/091002132346.htm
    “It’s better for you than a fatal overdose” is the best argument for homeopathy I’ve ever heard, and I’ve heard plenty of others.
    There are other good ones. Why get your placebo effect from an SSRI when you can get it from water is one, and (in favour of the NHS offering it) an NHS homeopath is less likely than a full-on fruitloop practitioner to prescribe homeopathic remedies for, say, ovarian cancer.
    A friend of mine rejected normal medicine for her cancer and went for alternative treatment. Her funeral is next week. Another friend had a similar cancer about the same time and had surgery/chemo/radiotherapy and is now racing on sailing yachts at the weekend.

    My cousin's father-in-law went for alternative medicine for his colon cancer. We buried him a couple of years ago. In his final days he said he had been "... a bl**dy fool..."
    My experiences with a family member, using a herbal medicined to support hospital treatment, which he was actually advised specifically not to, have been quite different. I'm very wary of blanket dismissals of alternative medicine since then.
    I am happy to let people do it if that is what they want, but out of 4 cancer cases I know personally, the two conventionally treated people are alive and well and the two alternative medicine people are dead. Interestingly the cancers were similar - two breast cancers and two bowel/colon cancers.

    So, based on my personal experience, alternative options have a 100% failure rate. On that basis, I will stick to conventional medicine.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,625

    eristdoof said:

    Foxy said:

    A lot going on today:

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/nov/10/donald-trump-longshot-election-lawsuits

    Trumpers are convinced its been stolen and that their legal challenges will remove the "illegal votes". When you look at the nature of these challenges - and the margin of victory for Biden - its clear these will fail and fail massively. Once it becomes clear that the results stand - results which people are convinced are fraudulent somehow - thats when the shooting starts. To answer @Mysticrose and her "is this Civil War" question - possibly

    As for students, a mass rapid test followed by tight windows of departure sounds great on paper and will be a poorly organised disaster in reality. Students will travel home and take the pox with them with the inevitable results. "Online teaching only from 9th December" - I assume that is for the remainder of term and not into 2021? Universities need student income for accommodation as do private landlords. The government isn't going to cover that so either they send students back in January with the inevitable return of Chernobyl strength Covid hotspots or they try to force students to keep paying full whack for part teaching and full whack for accommodation they aren't allowed to live in.

    My course has been online only for about a month already and the tuition fee is unchanged and neither is it likely to change. 🤷‍♂️ It would be lovely if it did though.
    Why should online teaching be cheaper? In many ways it is more expensive to organise.
    Whether or not it is cheaper, Gallowgate chose a course offering in-person Teaching. Well organised online courses are good, but they suit some students better than others, and I think that if you can commit the time and get yourself to the right location, then in-person courses are better for most students than online ones.

    I think anyone who pays good money for a service and then get offered a different service has a good reason to grumble.

    The counter justification in Corona times, which the Berlin unis are giving, is that if the courses were not held online then the students would not be able to study at all. But our students pay a couple of hundred Euros, not almost 10 grand.
    Eldest Granddaughter is currently doing a postgraduate course around 10 years after her undergrad one . Fortunately she is able to live at home, in the sense that her boyfriend, with whom she lives, is able to afford the rent on the place they are living, and indeed they picked it for that very reason.
    However, she grumbles that she misses being able to easily interact with fellow students, and although a lot of the necessary references are on-line would like to be able to use the library. She also feels that on-line lectures and tutorials are not as useful as being in the same room as the 'instructor'.
    It's also very difficult to do the investigations with people that she needs to do.
    The universities, from my part time masters experience, while I worked, seem to have strongly resisted efforts towards making remote studying/research part of their capabilities.

    The contrast is very strong when you deal with those portions of the sector that actively pursue this - Kellogg College, Oxford for example.
    It's 20+ years since my part-time Masters, but I don't recall any problems. Of course the technical situation was very different then.
    I talked with my Professor about it. He said that he was all in favour, but that every time they proposed stuff, it got shot down by the Administrative side as against "policy". Not "turning the place into the Open University" was phrase that came up.

    When you look at how the major universities are now small cities in their own right, the spending power of the students must be a big old pile of cash.
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