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The post debate betting moves just a touch to Trump – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 11,682
edited October 2020 in General
imageThe post debate betting moves just a touch to Trump – politicalbetting.com

The Smarkets chart shows how the Biden-Trump betting has moved following the debate and as can be seen punters are just a touch more confident about the incumbent but there’s really been very little movement.

Read the full story here

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  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,667
    First possibly, like Joe
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,967
    First in the electoral college.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,005
    edited October 2020
    The Latino vote will largely go for Biden with the exception of Florida where the Cuban American vote is swinging increasingly to Trump, so that means Biden should hold all Hillary's states in the West and maybe add Arizona with suburban women but Florida could still be key
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,005
    edited October 2020
    Meanwhile the Black vote seems to be moving more to Trump relative to 2016 which could be pivotal in Michigan, Georgia and North Carolina which have above average percentages of African American voters

    https://twitter.com/Rasmussen_Poll/status/1319605958037950470?s=20
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,667
    I think you might be right Mike about the 545.

    One thing's for sure, the Guiliani fable about Hunter Biden's alleged hard drive has failed to fly.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,667
    RobD said:

    First in the electoral college.

    Also like Joe.
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,966
    edited October 2020
    Sixth. As in the top of a five tier system.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,967
    dixiedean said:

    Sixth. Like a five tier system.

    I was happy to see Scotland's system was zero-indexed.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,667
    HYUFD said:

    Meanwhile the Black vote seems to be moving more to Trump relative to 2016 which could be pivotal in Michigan, Georgia and North Carolina which have above average percentages of African American voters

    https://twitter.com/Rasmussen_Poll/status/1319605958037950470?s=20

    What could possibly have provoked a near doubling of black approval of Trump in 5 days?

    Smells fake to me.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,967

    HYUFD said:

    Meanwhile the Black vote seems to be moving more to Trump relative to 2016 which could be pivotal in Michigan, Georgia and North Carolina which have above average percentages of African American voters

    https://twitter.com/Rasmussen_Poll/status/1319605958037950470?s=20

    What could possibly have provoked a near doubling of black approval of Trump in 5 days?

    Smells fake to me.
    It's a tweet by their official account.
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,966
    HYUFD said:

    Meanwhile the Black vote seems to be moving more to Trump relative to 2016 which could be pivotal in Michigan, Georgia and North Carolina which have above average percentages of African American voters

    https://twitter.com/Rasmussen_Poll/status/1319605958037950470?s=20

    Come on. If you obtained variance like that, you'd junk your methodology.
    24% to 46% in 3 days in the absence of a war or 9/11 type event?
    Malarkey.
  • Options
    https://twitter.com/GrantTucker/status/1319615885250842624?s=20

    Hold on so I can still buy a Nerf gun, but not a microwave.....
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,667
    RobD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Meanwhile the Black vote seems to be moving more to Trump relative to 2016 which could be pivotal in Michigan, Georgia and North Carolina which have above average percentages of African American voters

    https://twitter.com/Rasmussen_Poll/status/1319605958037950470?s=20

    What could possibly have provoked a near doubling of black approval of Trump in 5 days?

    Smells fake to me.
    It's a tweet by their official account.
    So what?
  • Options

    https://twitter.com/GrantTucker/status/1319615885250842624?s=20

    Hold on so I can still buy a Nerf gun, but not a microwave.....

    Are you still allowed to buy the plastic that is used to cover up the non-essential items?
  • Options
    Britain would be better off with Joe Biden by Sajid Javid

    I was a great supporter of the Republicans under Ronald Reagan, but today it's the Democratic challenger who best embodies his great legacy

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/10/23/britain-would-better-joe-biden/
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,966
    RobD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Sixth. Like a five tier system.

    I was happy to see Scotland's system was zero-indexed.
    Me too.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,967
    edited October 2020

    RobD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Meanwhile the Black vote seems to be moving more to Trump relative to 2016 which could be pivotal in Michigan, Georgia and North Carolina which have above average percentages of African American voters

    https://twitter.com/Rasmussen_Poll/status/1319605958037950470?s=20

    What could possibly have provoked a near doubling of black approval of Trump in 5 days?

    Smells fake to me.
    It's a tweet by their official account.
    So what?
    Why would they fake one of their own polls? An outlier, perhaps, but fake?
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,005
    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    Meanwhile the Black vote seems to be moving more to Trump relative to 2016 which could be pivotal in Michigan, Georgia and North Carolina which have above average percentages of African American voters

    https://twitter.com/Rasmussen_Poll/status/1319605958037950470?s=20

    Come on. If you obtained variance like that, you'd junk your methodology.
    24% to 46% in 3 days in the absence of a war or 9/11 type event?
    Malarkey.
    Trump emphasised what he was doing for the African American community in the debate last night on the economy and criminal justice reform and Biden's backing for the 1994 crime bill which increased African American incarceration and the latest poll figures were taken post debate
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,966
    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    Meanwhile the Black vote seems to be moving more to Trump relative to 2016 which could be pivotal in Michigan, Georgia and North Carolina which have above average percentages of African American voters

    https://twitter.com/Rasmussen_Poll/status/1319605958037950470?s=20

    Come on. If you obtained variance like that, you'd junk your methodology.
    24% to 46% in 3 days in the absence of a war or 9/11 type event?
    Malarkey.
    Trump emphasised what he was doing for the African American community in the debate last night on the economy and criminal justice reform and Biden's backing for the 1994 crime bill which increased African American incarceration and the latest poll figures were taken post debate
    And that is enough to win a near doubling of approval?
    Malarkey.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,404

    https://twitter.com/GrantTucker/status/1319615885250842624?s=20

    Hold on so I can still buy a Nerf gun, but not a microwave.....

    Are you still allowed to buy the plastic that is used to cover up the non-essential items?
    I am Jeff Bezos and I approve of this policy.

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00IEAFZRG
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,927
    edited October 2020
    What always fascinates me about betting, maybe it's just me that sees it this way, is how something with the same chance of happening, happening feels so different, ie Trump as a 2/1 shot winning the election would seem a shock, but if the favourite wins today's 400 at Newbury (Jumaira Bay, currently a 5/2 shot on Betfair) it will be nothing to talk about, despite it being less likely to happen, according to the market, than The Donald retaining the Presidency
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,256

    HYUFD said:

    Meanwhile the Black vote seems to be moving more to Trump relative to 2016 which could be pivotal in Michigan, Georgia and North Carolina which have above average percentages of African American voters

    https://twitter.com/Rasmussen_Poll/status/1319605958037950470?s=20

    What could possibly have provoked a near doubling of black approval of Trump in 5 days?

    Smells fake to me.
    I wouldn't say fake, but it's a subsample, likely to be extremely noisy, and so they obviously only choose to highlight it when the noise randomly imitates a coherent signal.

    Seeing the daily figures for the past month (or six) would let you know for sure.
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,966

    Britain would be better off with Joe Biden by Sajid Javid

    I was a great supporter of the Republicans under Ronald Reagan, but today it's the Democratic challenger who best embodies his great legacy

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/10/23/britain-would-better-joe-biden/

    Just discovered Javid is more than a month older than Andy Burnham.
    One seemed a blast from a bygone age.
    The other contemporary.
    We could, however, see them fighting out a GE in the 2030's.
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,256
    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    Meanwhile the Black vote seems to be moving more to Trump relative to 2016 which could be pivotal in Michigan, Georgia and North Carolina which have above average percentages of African American voters

    https://twitter.com/Rasmussen_Poll/status/1319605958037950470?s=20

    Come on. If you obtained variance like that, you'd junk your methodology.
    24% to 46% in 3 days in the absence of a war or 9/11 type event?
    Malarkey.
    Trump emphasised what he was doing for the African American community in the debate last night on the economy and criminal justice reform and Biden's backing for the 1994 crime bill which increased African American incarceration and the latest poll figures were taken post debate
    But most of the "change" happened before the debate. Did they somehow anticipate it?
  • Options
    welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,460

    https://twitter.com/GrantTucker/status/1319615885250842624?s=20

    Hold on so I can still buy a Nerf gun, but not a microwave.....

    This is so lunatic there’s got to be a “clarification” soon shortly?

    I mean when Vaughn Gething ( Welsh health minister) was opining in conversation to Kay Burley on Sky earlier that her hair dryer wasn’t essential (but alcohol was), and she was pointing out the length of her hair to his. you felt like screaming for his sake “stop digging”, except of course he couldn’t have even started because presumably he can’t buy a spade at present.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,667
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Meanwhile the Black vote seems to be moving more to Trump relative to 2016 which could be pivotal in Michigan, Georgia and North Carolina which have above average percentages of African American voters

    https://twitter.com/Rasmussen_Poll/status/1319605958037950470?s=20

    What could possibly have provoked a near doubling of black approval of Trump in 5 days?

    Smells fake to me.
    It's a tweet by their official account.
    So what?
    Why would they fake one of their own polls? An outlier, perhaps, but fake?
    I'm not suggesting it's the reporting of the poll that's fake. I'm suggesting the methodology is fake.
  • Options
    Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 4,812

    https://twitter.com/GrantTucker/status/1319615885250842624?s=20

    Hold on so I can still buy a Nerf gun, but not a microwave.....

    Are you still allowed to buy the plastic that is used to cover up the non-essential items?
    Smiggle does that for me. The branded beakers in which the stationery is presented are really good, but they don't sell them.
  • Options

    Britain would be better off with Joe Biden by Sajid Javid

    I was a great supporter of the Republicans under Ronald Reagan, but today it's the Democratic challenger who best embodies his great legacy

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/10/23/britain-would-better-joe-biden/

    Does Sajid Javid mean that it would better for Britain with Biden in the Whitehouse or in Number 10? Probably both
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,005

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    Meanwhile the Black vote seems to be moving more to Trump relative to 2016 which could be pivotal in Michigan, Georgia and North Carolina which have above average percentages of African American voters

    https://twitter.com/Rasmussen_Poll/status/1319605958037950470?s=20

    Come on. If you obtained variance like that, you'd junk your methodology.
    24% to 46% in 3 days in the absence of a war or 9/11 type event?
    Malarkey.
    Trump emphasised what he was doing for the African American community in the debate last night on the economy and criminal justice reform and Biden's backing for the 1994 crime bill which increased African American incarceration and the latest poll figures were taken post debate
    But most of the "change" happened before the debate. Did they somehow anticipate it?
    The biggest single change was today and it mirrors what the polls are showing, Biden is doing better with white voters than Hillary did but Trump is doing better with the black vote than he did in 2016
  • Options
    OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,113
    This is fascinating, especially on the Republican side:

    https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-issues-that-divide-people-within-each-party/

    About half of Republicans support a public health insurance option, a mini green new deal, and UBI. Half also quite soft on immigration issues and think that African Americans face widespread discrimination. Are they in the right party?
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,005
    Republicans pushing Trump's foreign policy record, where he has had most success https://twitter.com/RepThomasMassie/status/1319427625606090752?s=20
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    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,627

    https://twitter.com/GrantTucker/status/1319615885250842624?s=20

    Hold on so I can still buy a Nerf gun, but not a microwave.....

    Have they stopped people buying beer, wine and spirits?
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,967
    edited October 2020

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Meanwhile the Black vote seems to be moving more to Trump relative to 2016 which could be pivotal in Michigan, Georgia and North Carolina which have above average percentages of African American voters

    https://twitter.com/Rasmussen_Poll/status/1319605958037950470?s=20

    What could possibly have provoked a near doubling of black approval of Trump in 5 days?

    Smells fake to me.
    It's a tweet by their official account.
    So what?
    Why would they fake one of their own polls? An outlier, perhaps, but fake?
    I'm not suggesting it's the reporting of the poll that's fake. I'm suggesting the methodology is fake.
    Hm, what methodology did they use, and what even is a "fake methodology"? As suggested earlier, it could be a small subsample. That doesn't make it fake.
  • Options
    welshowl said:

    https://twitter.com/GrantTucker/status/1319615885250842624?s=20

    Hold on so I can still buy a Nerf gun, but not a microwave.....

    This is so lunatic there’s got to be a “clarification” soon shortly?

    I mean when Vaughn Gething ( Welsh health minister) was opining in conversation to Kay Burley on Sky earlier that her hair dryer wasn’t essential (but alcohol was), and she was pointing out the length of her hair to his. you felt like screaming for his sake “stop digging”, except of course he couldn’t have even started because presumably he can’t buy a spade at present.
    The sensible approach is of course to tell people please only go to the shops for what you need, minimize your time there etc....but that is common sense approach and we aren't allowed to trust people with that.
  • Options
    welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,460
    Andy_JS said:

    https://twitter.com/GrantTucker/status/1319615885250842624?s=20

    Hold on so I can still buy a Nerf gun, but not a microwave.....

    Have they stopped people buying beer, wine and spirits?
    No we’re ok there. They are in the “essential “ group.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,667

    HYUFD said:

    Meanwhile the Black vote seems to be moving more to Trump relative to 2016 which could be pivotal in Michigan, Georgia and North Carolina which have above average percentages of African American voters

    https://twitter.com/Rasmussen_Poll/status/1319605958037950470?s=20

    What could possibly have provoked a near doubling of black approval of Trump in 5 days?

    Smells fake to me.
    I wouldn't say fake, but it's a subsample, likely to be extremely noisy, and so they obviously only choose to highlight it when the noise randomly imitates a coherent signal.

    Seeing the daily figures for the past month (or six) would let you know for sure.
    Yes, that's fair.

    Looking at their twitter feed doesn't give confidence in Rasmussen's neutrality. For example:

    - A re-tweet of a Trump tweet

    - "We'd like to thank @libertynation - Conservative News Where The Truth Matters - for sponsoring our Daily Presidential Tracking Poll this week!"
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,065
    isam said:

    What always fascinates me about betting, maybe it's just me that sees it this way, is how something with the same chance of happening, happening feels so different, ie Trump as a 2/1 shot winning the election would seem a shock, but if the favourite wins today's 400 at Newbury (Jumaira Bay, currently a 5/2 shot on Betfair) it will be nothing to talk about, despite it being less likely to happen, according to the market, than The Donald retaining the Presidency

    I think it's because politics has the feeling of being something predetermined but that we cannot fully see in advance, whereas a horse race feels like it has more of an element of randomness.
  • Options

    HYUFD said:

    Meanwhile the Black vote seems to be moving more to Trump relative to 2016 which could be pivotal in Michigan, Georgia and North Carolina which have above average percentages of African American voters

    https://twitter.com/Rasmussen_Poll/status/1319605958037950470?s=20

    What could possibly have provoked a near doubling of black approval of Trump in 5 days?

    Smells fake to me.
    Seems implausible that anyone non-white could vote for someone that is so obviously racist. I guess there will still be some, in the same way as some here voted UKIP, but "African American voters moving more to Trump?" Seriously? I mean, seriously?!!!
  • Options
    Tories are pathetic, vindictive arseholes who would block free meals for poorer kids out of pique at being called 'scum'...

    ...sez Tory.

    https://twitter.com/bbcquestiontime/status/1319384272709570568?s=20
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,190

    isam said:

    What always fascinates me about betting, maybe it's just me that sees it this way, is how something with the same chance of happening, happening feels so different, ie Trump as a 2/1 shot winning the election would seem a shock, but if the favourite wins today's 400 at Newbury (Jumaira Bay, currently a 5/2 shot on Betfair) it will be nothing to talk about, despite it being less likely to happen, according to the market, than The Donald retaining the Presidency

    I think it's because politics has the feeling of being something predetermined but that we cannot fully see in advance, whereas a horse race feels like it has more of an element of randomness.
    Indeed. There is a very good chance that after the election, the 10% chance given to Trump will look thoroughly stupid. If the election was re-run 1,000 times, Trump would get stuffed every time. Whereas, a 10-1 shot in a football match might win six or seven times out of 100 tries.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,897
    Andy_JS said:

    https://twitter.com/GrantTucker/status/1319615885250842624?s=20

    Hold on so I can still buy a Nerf gun, but not a microwave.....

    Have they stopped people buying beer, wine and spirits?
    Breakfast, lunch and dinner, as some people call them.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,967

    welshowl said:

    https://twitter.com/GrantTucker/status/1319615885250842624?s=20

    Hold on so I can still buy a Nerf gun, but not a microwave.....

    This is so lunatic there’s got to be a “clarification” soon shortly?

    I mean when Vaughn Gething ( Welsh health minister) was opining in conversation to Kay Burley on Sky earlier that her hair dryer wasn’t essential (but alcohol was), and she was pointing out the length of her hair to his. you felt like screaming for his sake “stop digging”, except of course he couldn’t have even started because presumably he can’t buy a spade at present.
    The sensible approach is of course to tell people please only go to the shops for what you need, minimize your time there etc....but that is common sense approach and we aren't allowed to trust people with that.
    The approach during the first lockdown? ;)
  • Options
    contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    Tories are pathetic, vindictive arseholes who would block free meals for poorer kids out of pique at being called 'scum'...

    ...sez Tory.

    https://twitter.com/bbcquestiontime/status/1319384272709570568?s=20

    Considering how much of Britain is now bought and paid for the by the state, how can the tories argue it should not be extended absolutely everywhere?
  • Options
    welshowl said:

    Andy_JS said:

    https://twitter.com/GrantTucker/status/1319615885250842624?s=20

    Hold on so I can still buy a Nerf gun, but not a microwave.....

    Have they stopped people buying beer, wine and spirits?
    No we’re ok there. They are in the “essential “ group.
    Fckn right they are!
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,332
    There's enough evidence that black voters are inclining more to Trump than in 2016 for this to be statistically significant.

    This doesn't mean all of them are or even a majority - in fact it's a larger minority - but it is worth closer inspection and not dismissal.
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,966
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Meanwhile the Black vote seems to be moving more to Trump relative to 2016 which could be pivotal in Michigan, Georgia and North Carolina which have above average percentages of African American voters

    https://twitter.com/Rasmussen_Poll/status/1319605958037950470?s=20

    What could possibly have provoked a near doubling of black approval of Trump in 5 days?

    Smells fake to me.
    It's a tweet by their official account.
    So what?
    Why would they fake one of their own polls? An outlier, perhaps, but fake?
    I'm not suggesting it's the reporting of the poll that's fake. I'm suggesting the methodology is fake.
    Hm, what methodology did they use, and what even is a "fake methodology"? As suggested earlier, it could be a small subsample. That doesn't make it fake.
    No reputable polling company would be tweeting out results from a small subsample.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,609
    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    Meanwhile the Black vote seems to be moving more to Trump relative to 2016 which could be pivotal in Michigan, Georgia and North Carolina which have above average percentages of African American voters

    https://twitter.com/Rasmussen_Poll/status/1319605958037950470?s=20

    Come on. If you obtained variance like that, you'd junk your methodology.
    24% to 46% in 3 days in the absence of a war or 9/11 type event?
    Malarkey.
    Trump emphasised what he was doing for the African American community in the debate last night on the economy and criminal justice reform and Biden's backing for the 1994 crime bill which increased African American incarceration and the latest poll figures were taken post debate
    And that is enough to win a near doubling of approval?
    Malarkey.
    Backdated no less.
    Trump's debating performance was so powerful it went back in time several days.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,005
    edited October 2020

    There's enough evidence that black voters are inclining more to Trump than in 2016 for this to be statistically significant.

    This doesn't mean all of them are or even a majority - in fact it's a larger minority - but it is worth closer inspection and not dismissal.

    Indeed, it would be ironic if Biden ends up with the highest share of the white vote for a Democratic candidate since Obama in 2008 but Trump narrowly wins re election because he gets the highest share of the black vote for a Republican candidate since Reagan in 1980 got 14% of African American support
  • Options
    welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,460

    welshowl said:

    https://twitter.com/GrantTucker/status/1319615885250842624?s=20

    Hold on so I can still buy a Nerf gun, but not a microwave.....

    This is so lunatic there’s got to be a “clarification” soon shortly?

    I mean when Vaughn Gething ( Welsh health minister) was opining in conversation to Kay Burley on Sky earlier that her hair dryer wasn’t essential (but alcohol was), and she was pointing out the length of her hair to his. you felt like screaming for his sake “stop digging”, except of course he couldn’t have even started because presumably he can’t buy a spade at present.
    The sensible approach is of course to tell people please only go to the shops for what you need, minimize your time there etc....but that is common sense approach and we aren't allowed to trust people with that.
    Exactly what I’m doing. Once a week or so to the local supermarket. That’s it given I’m in one of the wrist locations possible at present.

    Now it’s all very well to laugh at the microwaves being covered up at Asda’s because control freakery has got out of hand in Cardiff bay ( I mean if you can buy beans in aisle 9 why can’t you buy a kettle in aisle 10 if you’re in the shop anyway? How’s that superspreading?), because if I really wanted a microwave or a kettle Mr Bezos will supply. However, what if I’m an 85 year old granny, who’s not too hot on the internet and I just want to make a cup of tea and Drakeford’s banned me from getting a bloody kettle till a fortnight on Monday?

  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,609
    But HYUFD has pointed out its remarkable impact.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,897

    There's enough evidence that black voters are inclining more to Trump than in 2016 for this to be statistically significant.

    This doesn't mean all of them are or even a majority - in fact it's a larger minority - but it is worth closer inspection and not dismissal.

    There’s certainly a number of high-profile black republicans standing for congress this year. Wesley Hunt and Kimberly Klacik, to give two examples, have been getting a lot of airtime.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,927
    edited October 2020

    isam said:

    What always fascinates me about betting, maybe it's just me that sees it this way, is how something with the same chance of happening, happening feels so different, ie Trump as a 2/1 shot winning the election would seem a shock, but if the favourite wins today's 400 at Newbury (Jumaira Bay, currently a 5/2 shot on Betfair) it will be nothing to talk about, despite it being less likely to happen, according to the market, than The Donald retaining the Presidency

    I think it's because politics has the feeling of being something predetermined but that we cannot fully see in advance, whereas a horse race feels like it has more of an element of randomness.
    Yes and we dont read hundreds of posts a week about why Jumaira Bay CANNOT win!

    But I feel the same about other examples too, for instance I like to bet on cricket in play, and when my team drifts from EVS to 7/4 after a wicket, I feel like it has very little chance of winning, and have to remind myself it has the same chance as Tiger Woods in his pomp had of winning the next major! That's more momentum I guess

    Another nice example... Trump has as much chance of winning as Bruno Fernandes has of scoring a goal vs Chelsea tomorrow (if he plays)!
  • Options
    nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    edited October 2020
    welshowl said:

    welshowl said:

    https://twitter.com/GrantTucker/status/1319615885250842624?s=20

    Hold on so I can still buy a Nerf gun, but not a microwave.....

    This is so lunatic there’s got to be a “clarification” soon shortly?

    I mean when Vaughn Gething ( Welsh health minister) was opining in conversation to Kay Burley on Sky earlier that her hair dryer wasn’t essential (but alcohol was), and she was pointing out the length of her hair to his. you felt like screaming for his sake “stop digging”, except of course he couldn’t have even started because presumably he can’t buy a spade at present.
    The sensible approach is of course to tell people please only go to the shops for what you need, minimize your time there etc....but that is common sense approach and we aren't allowed to trust people with that.
    Exactly what I’m doing. Once a week or so to the local supermarket. That’s it given I’m in one of the wrist locations possible at present.

    Now it’s all very well to laugh at the microwaves being covered up at Asda’s because control freakery has got out of hand in Cardiff bay ( I mean if you can buy beans in aisle 9 why can’t you buy a kettle in aisle 10 if you’re in the shop anyway? How’s that superspreading?), because if I really wanted a microwave or a kettle Mr Bezos will supply. However, what if I’m an 85 year old granny, who’s not too hot on the internet and I just want to make a cup of tea and Drakeford’s banned me from getting a bloody kettle till a fortnight on Monday?

    Try putting a pan of water on the hob
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,404
    RobD said:

    welshowl said:

    https://twitter.com/GrantTucker/status/1319615885250842624?s=20

    Hold on so I can still buy a Nerf gun, but not a microwave.....

    This is so lunatic there’s got to be a “clarification” soon shortly?

    I mean when Vaughn Gething ( Welsh health minister) was opining in conversation to Kay Burley on Sky earlier that her hair dryer wasn’t essential (but alcohol was), and she was pointing out the length of her hair to his. you felt like screaming for his sake “stop digging”, except of course he couldn’t have even started because presumably he can’t buy a spade at present.
    The sensible approach is of course to tell people please only go to the shops for what you need, minimize your time there etc....but that is common sense approach and we aren't allowed to trust people with that.
    The approach during the first lockdown? ;)
    You do need to add in the about of about management hitting Plod over the head when they get enthusiastic.
  • Options
    sarissasarissa Posts: 1,783
    kinabalu said:

    Is "Nippy" an affectionate name for Sturgeon or a putdown?

    'Nippy Sweetie' is an old Scots term for an outwardly pleasant woman with a sharp tongue.
  • Options
    welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,460
    nichomar said:

    welshowl said:

    welshowl said:

    https://twitter.com/GrantTucker/status/1319615885250842624?s=20

    Hold on so I can still buy a Nerf gun, but not a microwave.....

    This is so lunatic there’s got to be a “clarification” soon shortly?

    I mean when Vaughn Gething ( Welsh health minister) was opining in conversation to Kay Burley on Sky earlier that her hair dryer wasn’t essential (but alcohol was), and she was pointing out the length of her hair to his. you felt like screaming for his sake “stop digging”, except of course he couldn’t have even started because presumably he can’t buy a spade at present.
    The sensible approach is of course to tell people please only go to the shops for what you need, minimize your time there etc....but that is common sense approach and we aren't allowed to trust people with that.
    Exactly what I’m doing. Once a week or so to the local supermarket. That’s it given I’m in one of the wrist locations possible at present.

    Now it’s all very well to laugh at the microwaves being covered up at Asda’s because control freakery has got out of hand in Cardiff bay ( I mean if you can buy beans in aisle 9 why can’t you buy a kettle in aisle 10 if you’re in the shop anyway? How’s that superspreading?), because if I really wanted a microwave or a kettle Mr Bezos will supply. However, what if I’m an 85 year old granny, who’s not too hot on the internet and I just want to make a cup of tea and Drakeford’s banned me from getting a bloody kettle till a fortnight on Monday?

    Try hard pan of water on the hob
    Yes, but you know perfectly well the point I’m making.
  • Options
    Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 4,812

    welshowl said:

    https://twitter.com/GrantTucker/status/1319615885250842624?s=20

    Hold on so I can still buy a Nerf gun, but not a microwave.....

    This is so lunatic there’s got to be a “clarification” soon shortly?

    I mean when Vaughn Gething ( Welsh health minister) was opining in conversation to Kay Burley on Sky earlier that her hair dryer wasn’t essential (but alcohol was), and she was pointing out the length of her hair to his. you felt like screaming for his sake “stop digging”, except of course he couldn’t have even started because presumably he can’t buy a spade at present.
    The sensible approach is of course to tell people please only go to the shops for what you need, minimize your time there etc....but that is common sense approach and we aren't allowed to trust people with that.
    I have sympathy for those calling the Welsh supermarket rules mad - they are.

    Unfortunately, though, it seems the people I have sympathy with here do not share any of the same concern about the far bigger avalanche of equally picky segregation and categorisation rules that could face a mixed lorry load at Holyhead in a couple of months' time should the deal escape from reach.

    These are the very people who cheerlead for Welsh supermaketing the entire British economy.
  • Options
    MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    Nigelb said:

    But HYUFD has pointed out its remarkable impact.
    Yes HYUFD - PB's answer to Nate Silver
  • Options

    Tories are pathetic, vindictive arseholes who would block free meals for poorer kids out of pique at being called 'scum'...

    ...sez Tory.

    https://twitter.com/bbcquestiontime/status/1319384272709570568?s=20

    As opposed to Scottish Nationalists whose real raison d'etre is their hatred of people who identify as English, whether young or old, rich or poor. While I don't like the vote against the extension of free school meals, observing any Nationalist "arsehole" who supports the braindead, hate filled irrational quasi-religion of Scottish Nationalism, (let's not forget its occasional past flirtations with Nazism and Fascism), calling people who follow another party such names has to be seen as pretty rich. Nats are a very poor position to pontificate on morals.
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,966

    There's enough evidence that black voters are inclining more to Trump than in 2016 for this to be statistically significant.

    This doesn't mean all of them are or even a majority - in fact it's a larger minority - but it is worth closer inspection and not dismissal.

    Indeed there is. I am merely questioning, nay dismissing, a near doubling of approval in three days.
    Not the fact that Trump will do better which has already been heavily suggested in polling.
    Just as I would not question a runner whose 100 m time went from 11 sec. to 10.8.
    If it went to 9.2 in three days I would suspect some weapons grade malarkey somewhere.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,005

    Nigelb said:

    But HYUFD has pointed out its remarkable impact.
    Yes HYUFD - PB's answer to Nate Silver
    We will see on election night who is right then me or Nate
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,927
    Worth noting that @HYUFD has swam against the tide and been right on a few things before, despite not being a slave to opinion polling in the way that others, that are for some reason afforded more respect, demand.
  • Options

    Nigelb said:

    But HYUFD has pointed out its remarkable impact.
    Yes HYUFD - PB's answer to Nate Silver
    PB's answer to a cephalopod called Paul surely?
  • Options
    MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,442
    edited October 2020

    This is fascinating, especially on the Republican side:

    https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-issues-that-divide-people-within-each-party/

    About half of Republicans support a public health insurance option, a mini green new deal, and UBI. Half also quite soft on immigration issues and think that African Americans face widespread discrimination. Are they in the right party?

    I think this generalised support for social democratic policies across the anglophone region has meant that for the minority that lean neo-liberal you must find your majority through careful cultural division and not economic ideology.

  • Options

    Tories are pathetic, vindictive arseholes who would block free meals for poorer kids out of pique at being called 'scum'...

    ...sez Tory.

    https://twitter.com/bbcquestiontime/status/1319384272709570568?s=20

    As opposed to Scottish Nationalists whose real raison d'etre is their hatred of people who identify as English, whether young or old, rich or poor. While I don't like the vote against the extension of free school meals, observing any Nationalist "arsehole" who supports the braindead, hate filled irrational quasi-religion of Scottish Nationalism, (let's not forget its occasional past flirtations with Nazism and Fascism), calling people who follow another party such names has to be seen as pretty rich. Nats are a very poor position to pontificate on morals.
    Change the record you clueless old bore.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,332
    HYUFD said:

    There's enough evidence that black voters are inclining more to Trump than in 2016 for this to be statistically significant.

    This doesn't mean all of them are or even a majority - in fact it's a larger minority - but it is worth closer inspection and not dismissal.

    Indeed, it would be ironic if Biden ends up with the highest share of the white vote for a Democratic candidate since Obama in 2008 but Trump narrowly wins re election because he gets the highest share of the black vote for a Republican candidate since Reagan in 1980 got 14% of African American support
    I don't think Trump will win but there's clearly a level of complexity to how people see him and the Republicans over there that people over here simply don't get.

    We should be a bit more humble and objective in assessing the situation and to do so dispassionately.
  • Options
    RattersRatters Posts: 778
    Thoughts on the latest ONS infection survey:

    +ve: there's some evidence the incidence rate growth is starting to slow, particularly amongst young people and certain worse-hit regions like the North East

    -ve: we're up to around 35,000 cases per day in England alone (up to 16 October), so even if the pace of growth slows, it will remain at a high level. In addition, there is evidence that infection rates are growing among the older age groups most at risk, so the increase in hospitalisations and deaths is likely to take a while to fully catch-up.
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,256

    There's enough evidence that black voters are inclining more to Trump than in 2016 for this to be statistically significant.

    This doesn't mean all of them are or even a majority - in fact it's a larger minority - but it is worth closer inspection and not dismissal.

    I give a fair hearing to reasonable arguments on inner city crime, on the economy, on Biden's sense of entitlement, etc, and the associated polling data.

    But presenting ridiculously large trends in subsamples without a health warning is not part of that. Rasmussen charge for access to their crosstabs, so you can't check whether there's a simple observation bias at work in presenting random data as a trend.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,609

    Nigelb said:

    But HYUFD has pointed out its remarkable impact.
    Yes HYUFD - PB's answer to Nate Silver
    Surely we're not that rude ?
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,667
    dixiedean said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Meanwhile the Black vote seems to be moving more to Trump relative to 2016 which could be pivotal in Michigan, Georgia and North Carolina which have above average percentages of African American voters

    https://twitter.com/Rasmussen_Poll/status/1319605958037950470?s=20

    What could possibly have provoked a near doubling of black approval of Trump in 5 days?

    Smells fake to me.
    It's a tweet by their official account.
    So what?
    Why would they fake one of their own polls? An outlier, perhaps, but fake?
    I'm not suggesting it's the reporting of the poll that's fake. I'm suggesting the methodology is fake.
    Hm, what methodology did they use, and what even is a "fake methodology"? As suggested earlier, it could be a small subsample. That doesn't make it fake.
    No reputable polling company would be tweeting out results from a small subsample.
    Given their daily sampling is 1500 likely voters according to 538, the black sub-sample is going to be about 200 (13.4% of 1500), assuming Rasmussen's sample reflects the overall US ethinic split.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,629
    HYUFD said:

    Meanwhile the Black vote seems to be moving more to Trump relative to 2016 which could be pivotal in Michigan, Georgia and North Carolina which have above average percentages of African American voters

    https://twitter.com/Rasmussen_Poll/status/1319605958037950470?s=20

    46% of Black voters voting Trump is delusional. That would be ahead of his overall polling!

    No Republican has managed that in the modern era, let alone one who tacitly encourages white supremacists.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,217
    isam said:

    What always fascinates me about betting, maybe it's just me that sees it this way, is how something with the same chance of happening, happening feels so different, ie Trump as a 2/1 shot winning the election would seem a shock, but if the favourite wins today's 400 at Newbury (Jumaira Bay, currently a 5/2 shot on Betfair) it will be nothing to talk about, despite it being less likely to happen, according to the market, than The Donald retaining the Presidency

    I think some of this is to do with binary vs multiple. For example -

    Race 1 has 10 runners all at 9/1.
    Race 2 has 2 runners, fav at 1/9, nag at 9/1.

    So, one of the 9/1 shots is bound to come in in Race 1. Therefore this will not feel like much of a surprise to an independent dispassionate observer who has no bet on. But if the 9/1 nag beats the 1/9 "racing certainty" in Race 2, that WILL feel like a real shock.

    So here, with the US election, it's like Race 2, a binary 2 horse race, and of course ... I'm going to enjoy this pay off sentence ... Trump is the Nag.
  • Options
    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,715
    HYUFD said:

    Meanwhile the Black vote seems to be moving more to Trump relative to 2016 which could be pivotal in Michigan, Georgia and North Carolina which have above average percentages of African American voters

    https://twitter.com/Rasmussen_Poll/status/1319605958037950470?s=20

    Presumably the same level of objectivity as Express reader polls on subjects like Brexit.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,750
    isam said:

    Carnyx said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Outstanding. Nippy announces a 5 tier system, that has 6 tiers but only goes to 4...

    https://twitter.com/BBCScotlandNews/status/1319604085444792320

    Could be to conform to the Whitehall system, sufficiently so to get qualification for employers' support un der Mr Sunak's tiers.

    I see she has in any case added a lower tier. And so on.
    It makes complete sense to treat different parts of a country differently according to the level of threat. It's why Sir Keir's Circuit Break nonsense was nonsense - he probably only did it to play politics anyway I suppose.

    Do you think she did 5 tiers rather than 3 to differentiate Scotland from England?
    FPT: Well, she didn't have much choice, did she? As they were left out from the English system (nothing below medium, and so on, as much discussed on PB).
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    RobD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Meanwhile the Black vote seems to be moving more to Trump relative to 2016 which could be pivotal in Michigan, Georgia and North Carolina which have above average percentages of African American voters

    https://twitter.com/Rasmussen_Poll/status/1319605958037950470?s=20

    What could possibly have provoked a near doubling of black approval of Trump in 5 days?

    Smells fake to me.
    It's a tweet by their official account.
    In 2016 Rasmussen had a poll that simultaneously had Clinton leading and Trump taking 20% of the black vote.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,667
    edited October 2020

    Nigelb said:

    But HYUFD has pointed out its remarkable impact.
    Yes HYUFD - PB's answer to Nate Silver
    PB's answer to a cephalopod called Paul surely?
    Not at all, @HYUFD is relatively 'armless compared to Paul.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,005
    edited October 2020

    HYUFD said:

    There's enough evidence that black voters are inclining more to Trump than in 2016 for this to be statistically significant.

    This doesn't mean all of them are or even a majority - in fact it's a larger minority - but it is worth closer inspection and not dismissal.

    Indeed, it would be ironic if Biden ends up with the highest share of the white vote for a Democratic candidate since Obama in 2008 but Trump narrowly wins re election because he gets the highest share of the black vote for a Republican candidate since Reagan in 1980 got 14% of African American support
    I don't think Trump will win but there's clearly a level of complexity to how people see him and the Republicans over there that people over here simply don't get.

    We should be a bit more humble and objective in assessing the situation and to do so dispassionately.
    Indeed, it reminds me of 2004, we Brits just did not get how on earth Americans could vote for Dubya over Kerry but forgetting that Dubya was looking to win over American voters to win a US election not win approval from voters in the UK.

    In US terms the UK would be a solid blue safe Democratic state in the North East, not a swing state in the MidWest
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,256
    isam said:

    Worth noting that @HYUFD has swam against the tide and been right on a few things before, despite not being a slave to opinion polling in the way that others, that are for some reason afforded more respect, demand.

    In two horse contests he would be right half the time, but that says nothing about whether there is any value in his selective use of opinion polling to support his view.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,927
    edited October 2020
    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    What always fascinates me about betting, maybe it's just me that sees it this way, is how something with the same chance of happening, happening feels so different, ie Trump as a 2/1 shot winning the election would seem a shock, but if the favourite wins today's 400 at Newbury (Jumaira Bay, currently a 5/2 shot on Betfair) it will be nothing to talk about, despite it being less likely to happen, according to the market, than The Donald retaining the Presidency

    I think some of this is to do with binary vs multiple. For example -

    Race 1 has 10 runners all at 9/1.
    Race 2 has 2 runners, fav at 1/9, nag at 9/1.

    So, one of the 9/1 shots is bound to come in in Race 1. Therefore this will not feel like much of a surprise to an independent dispassionate observer who has no bet on. But if the 9/1 nag beats the 1/9 "racing certainty" in Race 2, that WILL feel like a real shock.

    So here, with the US election, it's like Race 2, a binary 2 horse race, and of course ... I'm going to enjoy this pay off sentence ... Trump is the Nag.
    Yeah that is partly it, but it still feels different to be on the 7/1f for the Grand National than it does West Ham tmrw vs City, to me anyway despite knowing this for 20 odd years

    So binary factor and also favourite vs outsider

    Actually that West Ham bet looks alright!
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,629

    This is fascinating, especially on the Republican side:

    https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-issues-that-divide-people-within-each-party/

    About half of Republicans support a public health insurance option, a mini green new deal, and UBI. Half also quite soft on immigration issues and think that African Americans face widespread discrimination. Are they in the right party?

    I think this generalised support for social democratic policies across the anglophone region has meant that for the minority that lean neo-liberal you must find your majority through careful cultural division and not economic ideology.

    Yes, these are voters open to Dems on economic issues, but closed on social issues. Potentially a big swinging vote if Biden doesn't frighten the horses, and he doesn't look to be doing that...
  • Options
    ReduxRedux Posts: 7
    HYUFD said:

    Republicans pushing Trump's foreign policy record, where he has had most success https://twitter.com/RepThomasMassie/status/1319427625606090752?s=20

    HYUFD said:

    Republicans pushing Trump's foreign policy record, where he has had most success https://twitter.com/RepThomasMassie/status/1319427625606090752?s=20

    Even a basic analysis of the data shows the reduction happened under Obama. Trump has just kept them at the low level Obama reduced them to.
  • Options
    Of the 9 polls reported so far today, 8 would place Biden in the White House.

    Sounds about right to me.
  • Options
    rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    Sandpit said:

    There's enough evidence that black voters are inclining more to Trump than in 2016 for this to be statistically significant.

    This doesn't mean all of them are or even a majority - in fact it's a larger minority - but it is worth closer inspection and not dismissal.

    There’s certainly a number of high-profile black republicans standing for congress this year. Wesley Hunt and Kimberly Klacik, to give two examples, have been getting a lot of airtime.
    I don't think there's any doubt that Trump might be doing slightly better with African-Americans in 2020 than 2016. The key though is whether the African-American voters that turned out for Obama-Biden, but not for Clinton-Kaine, will turn out for Biden-Harris. If enough of them do, it won't matter that Trump is doing better with the demographic.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,629
    isam said:

    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    What always fascinates me about betting, maybe it's just me that sees it this way, is how something with the same chance of happening, happening feels so different, ie Trump as a 2/1 shot winning the election would seem a shock, but if the favourite wins today's 400 at Newbury (Jumaira Bay, currently a 5/2 shot on Betfair) it will be nothing to talk about, despite it being less likely to happen, according to the market, than The Donald retaining the Presidency

    I think some of this is to do with binary vs multiple. For example -

    Race 1 has 10 runners all at 9/1.
    Race 2 has 2 runners, fav at 1/9, nag at 9/1.

    So, one of the 9/1 shots is bound to come in in Race 1. Therefore this will not feel like much of a surprise to an independent dispassionate observer who has no bet on. But if the 9/1 nag beats the 1/9 "racing certainty" in Race 2, that WILL feel like a real shock.

    So here, with the US election, it's like Race 2, a binary 2 horse race, and of course ... I'm going to enjoy this pay off sentence ... Trump is the Nag.
    Yeah that is partly it, but it still feels different to be on the 7/1f for the Grand National than it does West Ham tmrw vs City, to me anyway despite knowing this for 20 odd years

    So binary factor and also favourite vs outsider

    Actually that West Ham bet looks alright!
    Good tip on West Ham. If they score first they park the bus well, as Leicester found out.
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,256

    HYUFD said:

    There's enough evidence that black voters are inclining more to Trump than in 2016 for this to be statistically significant.

    This doesn't mean all of them are or even a majority - in fact it's a larger minority - but it is worth closer inspection and not dismissal.

    Indeed, it would be ironic if Biden ends up with the highest share of the white vote for a Democratic candidate since Obama in 2008 but Trump narrowly wins re election because he gets the highest share of the black vote for a Republican candidate since Reagan in 1980 got 14% of African American support
    I don't think Trump will win but there's clearly a level of complexity to how people see him and the Republicans over there that people over here simply don't get.

    We should be a bit more humble and objective in assessing the situation and to do so dispassionately.
    Yes, for example there's some evidence that Trump has better favourability ratings now than in 2016. He may poll a higher percentage this time and still lose.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,629

    Nigelb said:

    But HYUFD has pointed out its remarkable impact.
    Yes HYUFD - PB's answer to Nate Silver
    PB's answer to a cephalopod called Paul surely?
    Not at all, @HYUFD is relatively 'armless compared to Paul.
    I reckon the sucker count differs too.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,332
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    There's enough evidence that black voters are inclining more to Trump than in 2016 for this to be statistically significant.

    This doesn't mean all of them are or even a majority - in fact it's a larger minority - but it is worth closer inspection and not dismissal.

    Indeed, it would be ironic if Biden ends up with the highest share of the white vote for a Democratic candidate since Obama in 2008 but Trump narrowly wins re election because he gets the highest share of the black vote for a Republican candidate since Reagan in 1980 got 14% of African American support
    I don't think Trump will win but there's clearly a level of complexity to how people see him and the Republicans over there that people over here simply don't get.

    We should be a bit more humble and objective in assessing the situation and to do so dispassionately.
    Indeed, it reminds me of 2004, we Brits just did not get how on earth Americans could vote for Dubya over Kerry but forgetting that Dubya was looking to win over American voters to win a US election not win approval from voters in the UK.

    In US terms the UK would be a solid blue safe Democratic state in the North East, not a swing state in the MidWest
    Actually, I'm not sure it would. Particularly in England.

    We'd see American politics then through a domestic prism, not an international one, which would broaden and change our views on both the candidates.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,332

    There's enough evidence that black voters are inclining more to Trump than in 2016 for this to be statistically significant.

    This doesn't mean all of them are or even a majority - in fact it's a larger minority - but it is worth closer inspection and not dismissal.

    I give a fair hearing to reasonable arguments on inner city crime, on the economy, on Biden's sense of entitlement, etc, and the associated polling data.

    But presenting ridiculously large trends in subsamples without a health warning is not part of that. Rasmussen charge for access to their crosstabs, so you can't check whether there's a simple observation bias at work in presenting random data as a trend.
    It's not just this poll.
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Pulpstar said:

    dixiedean said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Rounding the corner straight into an oncoming truck.
    Proportionately they're doing better than us.
    Georgia looking to get cracking on a third wave

  • Options

    There's enough evidence that black voters are inclining more to Trump than in 2016 for this to be statistically significant.

    This doesn't mean all of them are or even a majority - in fact it's a larger minority - but it is worth closer inspection and not dismissal.

    I give a fair hearing to reasonable arguments on inner city crime, on the economy, on Biden's sense of entitlement, etc, and the associated polling data.

    But presenting ridiculously large trends in subsamples without a health warning is not part of that. Rasmussen charge for access to their crosstabs, so you can't check whether there's a simple observation bias at work in presenting random data as a trend.
    It's not just this poll.
    I haven't see any other evidence of a shift in the last week.

    There is a slight movement evident compared to 2016.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,667
    Texas voting has now reached 71.1% of 2016 turnout.

    Overall US voting has reached 36.5%, and that excludes NY and Hawaii who are not yet reporting.

    https://electproject.github.io/Early-Vote-2020G/index.html
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,005
    edited October 2020

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    There's enough evidence that black voters are inclining more to Trump than in 2016 for this to be statistically significant.

    This doesn't mean all of them are or even a majority - in fact it's a larger minority - but it is worth closer inspection and not dismissal.

    Indeed, it would be ironic if Biden ends up with the highest share of the white vote for a Democratic candidate since Obama in 2008 but Trump narrowly wins re election because he gets the highest share of the black vote for a Republican candidate since Reagan in 1980 got 14% of African American support
    I don't think Trump will win but there's clearly a level of complexity to how people see him and the Republicans over there that people over here simply don't get.

    We should be a bit more humble and objective in assessing the situation and to do so dispassionately.
    Indeed, it reminds me of 2004, we Brits just did not get how on earth Americans could vote for Dubya over Kerry but forgetting that Dubya was looking to win over American voters to win a US election not win approval from voters in the UK.

    In US terms the UK would be a solid blue safe Democratic state in the North East, not a swing state in the MidWest
    Actually, I'm not sure it would. Particularly in England.

    We'd see American politics then through a domestic prism, not an international one, which would broaden and change our views on both the candidates.
    We would vote for Biden somewhere along the lines of the margin New Jersey or New York will vote for Biden in November, Trump might win a few rural or ex industrial parts of England but otherwise we would just slot into blue America.

    Though of course if post Brexit the UK became the 51st US state that would tip Presidential elections to the Democrats anyway, the UK would be the biggest state population wise in the US with even more EC votes than California and that would mean both Gore and Kerry would have won in 2000 and 2004 and Hillary would have won in 2016 and Biden would almost certainly win next month too
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,667
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    There's enough evidence that black voters are inclining more to Trump than in 2016 for this to be statistically significant.

    This doesn't mean all of them are or even a majority - in fact it's a larger minority - but it is worth closer inspection and not dismissal.

    Indeed, it would be ironic if Biden ends up with the highest share of the white vote for a Democratic candidate since Obama in 2008 but Trump narrowly wins re election because he gets the highest share of the black vote for a Republican candidate since Reagan in 1980 got 14% of African American support
    I don't think Trump will win but there's clearly a level of complexity to how people see him and the Republicans over there that people over here simply don't get.

    We should be a bit more humble and objective in assessing the situation and to do so dispassionately.
    Indeed, it reminds me of 2004, we Brits just did not get how on earth Americans could vote for Dubya over Kerry but forgetting that Dubya was looking to win over American voters to win a US election not win approval from voters in the UK.

    In US terms the UK would be a solid blue safe Democratic state in the North East, not a swing state in the MidWest
    Actually, I'm not sure it would. Particularly in England.

    We'd see American politics then through a domestic prism, not an international one, which would broaden and change our views on both the candidates.
    We would vote for Biden somewhere along the lines of the margin New Jersey or New York will vote for Biden in November, Trump might win a few rural parts of England but otherwise we would just slot into blue America.

    Though of course if post Brexit the UK became the 51st state that would tip Presidential elections to the Democrats anyway, the UK would be the biggest state population wise in the US with even more EC votes than California and that would mean both Gore and Kerry would have won in 2000 and 2004 and Biden would almost certainly win next month too
    Not only that, if the four nations of the UK each became a state the Senate would likely be permanently out of reach of the Republicans too.

    None of that is ever going to happen, of course.
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    isamisam Posts: 40,927
    Reminds me of the time the doctor told a mate of mine with constipation to put suppositories into his back passage... went back a week later, still constipated, and said for all the good they did he might as well have stuck em up his arse!

    https://twitter.com/tramisogyny/status/1319366664496971777?s=20
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    Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 4,812
    A big part of the difference is that much of the race has already been run, most of the population have a very good idea of whether and how they will vote and, indeed, the postal element means many have already. Election day is like coming in on a game in the embers of the fourth quarter and having only the noise of the crowd to judge the score, and even that would be after a mass brawl has stirred them up and confused things more, election night is simply the reveal of the scoreboard.

    Of course sport does not start and end on the pitch, training, preparation and tactics are vital, but the game is actually played out, in full, in front of you.
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