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The polling gets even better for Biden but Betfair punters remain cautious – politicalbetting.com

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  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,377
    Andy_JS said:

    Some people (not on PB) seem to be saying that a national lockdown is a good idea simply because it wouldn't make those living in particular areas feel "singled out" so to speak. I have to say this is the most stupid argument I've ever heard in my life.

    Politically it is quite powerful.

    Many political ideas are quite stupid of course. The idea that the Greek economy and politics were going to become German just because, for example....

    Back to domestic affairs. If R is already heading back below 1, then there is going to be an interesting political narrative. Since the press can't read numbers, and so will be unable to understand that this began *before* the recent Tier system started....
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,746
    @LadyG
    I'm sure my employers won't mind if I post on this. If you are experiencing sudden onset of fatigue, then you may have developed type II diabetes; get yourself checked ASAP.

    As for the suicidal ideation I'm not sure I'm the best person to give advice, although contacting your GP in a good place to start. Given the fact that the NHS isn't really functioning well at the moment, get a private GP as well and see which one responds the quickest. You may find it helps if you go with an advocate (you are married, I believe) who can act for you when the doctor tries to fob you off: such people are very helpful.
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,597
    edited October 2020
    According to 538 Trump still needs a swingback of about 3.2% in the key states to win the election. That figure has hardly changed for weeks, although of course the fact the election is much closer makes getting the swing more difficult for Trump compared to say 4 weeks ago.

    https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-election-forecast/
  • Options

    Andy_JS said:

    Some people (not on PB) seem to be saying that a national lockdown is a good idea simply because it wouldn't make those living in particular areas feel "singled out" so to speak. I have to say this is the most stupid argument I've ever heard in my life.

    Politically it is quite powerful.

    Many political ideas are quite stupid of course. The idea that the Greek economy and politics were going to become German just because, for example....

    Back to domestic affairs. If R is already heading back below 1, then there is going to be an interesting political narrative. Since the press can't read numbers, and so will be unable to understand that this began *before* the recent Tier system started....
    Yes and no.

    The recent Tier system is largely a clarification and simplification of what was already in place. So it shows Tier 2 has helped work to bring R back under control and Tier 3 likely will work to bring case numbers back down (which R of 1 doesn't do, it just halts the increase).
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    Here in Seattle, received my 2020 general election ballot in today's mail. Have already marked my choices (here in King County we fill in ovals for reach vote), signed and dated the return envelope.

    Now all I need to do is return it to King Co Election, which I will do next Tuesday when I will be going down to observe legally-required Logic and Accuracy (L&A) test of the county's vote tabulation system.

    Forgot to count, but had about three dozen different offices and measures to vote on, ranging from President & Vice President of the United States (not the first thing on the ballot, state & county measures come first) down to county judges and City of Seattle bus sales tax.

    Anyone want to make book on who got MY vote for President? And for the second time this year!
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,597
    edited October 2020
    Useless fact: I've spent exactly 3 days of my life in Seattle, in 2017, and since I didn't have a car or use any other form of transport I got rather a lot of exercise walking up and down the massive slope that the city is on in order to visit places. It was rainy and cloudy the whole time.
  • Options
    Andy_JS said:

    Useless fact: I've spent exactly 3 days of my life in Seattle, in 2017, and since I didn't have a car or use any other form of transport I got rather a lot of exercise walking up and down the massive slope that the city is on in order to visit places. It was rainy and cloudy the whole time.

    Hope you enjoyed the experience!

    Like ancient Rome, Seattle was built on seven hills. Though there is disagreement on WHICH seven hills exactly.

    My candidates are:

    1. First Hill (naturally) to east of downtown

    2. Capitol Hill (which was the one you were going up and down, from downtown to Capitol Hill neighborhood

    3. Queen Anne Hill (named I think for the architecture rather than the monarch directly) north of downtown

    4. Magnolia Hill northeast of downtown

    5. Beacon Hill south of downtown

    6. Phinney Ridge in north Seattle (yours truly lives near north terminus of the glacial terminal moraine)

    7. West Seattle hill (just called West Seattle) which is (you guessed it ) west of downtown, across Elliot Bay

    Honorable mention

    > Denny Hill which was one of the original seven BUT has not been a hill for about a century, because it was chopped down, hauled away and dumped as landfill into Elliot Bay; used to be called Denny Regrade but now is known as Belltown

    > Crown Hill in north Seattle, to west of Phinney Ridge

    > Sunset Hill also in north Seattle

    > Blue Ridge ditto

    Plenty of others, without leaving city limits!
  • Options

    Any new polls.

    And well done to Labor in New Zealand, this will be the start of a centre-left resurgence continuing with Labour getting back into Government here in 2024

    I don't know if you've noticed, but the LOESS smooth on Wikipedia of GB opinion polls now has Labour and Tory as currently tied.

    https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Opinion_polling_for_the_next_United_Kingdom_general_election_after_2019_(LOESS).svg
    Very interesting, thanks.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,057
    Trump retains some celebrity endorsements.

    https://twitter.com/kirstiealley/status/1317603908009721868?s=21
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    Reads like it was written by robot still learning basic English.
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    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,597
    edited October 2020
    It'll be interesting to see if Trump gets a slight swing in his favour in states like California, Oregon, Washington compared to 2016. I think he will in California. Not sure about the other two. Something odd is definitely going on in California at the moment, in the sense that the population has failed to increase for the first time since it became part of the United States.

    https://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/population-shrinks-in-california-still-most-populous-state/2355776/
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    Re: Kirstie Alley

    She's still a natural comedian!

    Note that in 2016, KA indeed did endorse Trumpsky BUT she rescinded her endorsement before EDay, changing her position to not supporting either him or Hillary.

    So technically he did NOT retain Alley's endorsement, she gained it.

    Wonder IF there is a Scientology connection here? Given variety of published reports (for one, see link below) the answer appears to be, hell yes.
  • Options
    Andy_JS said:

    It'll be interesting to see if Trump gets a slight swing in his favour in states like California, Oregon, Washington compared to 2016. I think he will in California. Not sure about the other two. Something odd is definitely going on in California at the moment, in the sense that the population has failed to increase for the first time since it became part of the United States.

    https://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/population-shrinks-in-california-still-most-populous-state/2355776/

    1. Re: possible West Coast swing to Trumpsky, we will see but do NOT bet on it. Mainly because (as polling shows here and elsewhere) he is tanking with suburban voters, who are THE key swing voters in these states. They've been swing away from GOP for decades, a process that Trumpsky has accelerated to something approaching warp speed.

    2. Re: California, success has caught up with the Golden State, like it did decades ago for New York, Pennsylvania, Michigan and Illinois.

    Note that following 2010 census, Golden State only gained 1 new seat in US House, compared to much larger gains in previous censuses.

    Why the fall from the days when "California Here I Come" was a national mantra? Largely because while there was robust international AND domestic migration into Cali, there was also an increasing outflow of people leaving for places like Arizona, Nevada, Oregon, Washington and Idaho due to housing (expensive), transportation (punishing commutes) and other cost of living / quality of life issues.
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    2nd Q with 3 minutes to play before halftime:

    George 17, Alabama 17
  • Options

    2nd Q with 3 minutes to play before halftime:

    George 17, Alabama 17

    2nd Q with 3 minutes to play before halftime:

    George 17, Alabama 17

    Sorry, read "Georgia"

    Incidentally, Crimson Tide Nick Saban, one of the winningest coaches in NCAA history, was approved to coach tonight's game after receiving 3 negative COVID tests following his positive test earlier this week. Sabin went into quarantine when he tested positive, and was released as per SEC protocol as soon as third negative was processed and confirmed.

    Halftime

    Georgia 24, Alabama 20

    Final ten seconds of 1st half was wild time; Alabama had the ball, got first down maybe 30 feet from goal line, and called for time out with 3 seconds left on clock. BUT officials screwed up, at first said clock had expired (Sabin was fit to be tide, and Bulldogs started leaving the field for their locker room.

    Then officials backtracked, said there was 1 second left. Bama kicker started to attempt field goal - then GA coach called time out, trying to ice the kicker. Who ended up belting out a kick that just made it inside the goal posts and adding final 3 points for Crimson Tide.
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,597

    2nd Q with 3 minutes to play before halftime:

    George 17, Alabama 17

    2nd Q with 3 minutes to play before halftime:

    George 17, Alabama 17

    Sorry, read "Georgia"

    Incidentally, Crimson Tide Nick Saban, one of the winningest coaches in NCAA history, was approved to coach tonight's game after receiving 3 negative COVID tests following his positive test earlier this week. Sabin went into quarantine when he tested positive, and was released as per SEC protocol as soon as third negative was processed and confirmed.

    Halftime

    Georgia 24, Alabama 20

    Final ten seconds of 1st half was wild time; Alabama had the ball, got first down maybe 30 feet from goal line, and called for time out with 3 seconds left on clock. BUT officials screwed up, at first said clock had expired (Sabin was fit to be tide, and Bulldogs started leaving the field for their locker room.

    Then officials backtracked, said there was 1 second left. Bama kicker started to attempt field goal - then GA coach called time out, trying to ice the kicker. Who ended up belting out a kick that just made it inside the goal posts and adding final 3 points for Crimson Tide.
    Is this baseball or American Football?
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,981
    Andy_JS said:

    Useless fact: I've spent exactly 3 days of my life in Seattle, in 2017, and since I didn't have a car or use any other form of transport I got rather a lot of exercise walking up and down the massive slope that the city is on in order to visit places. It was rainy and cloudy the whole time.

    It's rainy, cloudy and windy all the time.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,204
    edited October 2020

    Reads like it was written by robot still learning basic English.
    Bit unfair.

    To robots, that is.

    Edit - amusingly autocorrect made that ‘bot unfair!’
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,582
    ydoethur said:

    Reads like it was written by robot still learning basic English.
    Bit unfair.

    To robots, that is.
    Cheers, @ydoethur .
  • Options
    MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    edited October 2020
    Edited comment. Have just seen Andy didn't predict a Trump win in California but a swing.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,582

    Edited comment. Have just seen Andy didn't predict a Trump win in California but a swing.

    Noe that would have been a ballsy call.
    Definitely worth bragging rights at the Zoom meet-up if it comes off.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,582

    2nd Q with 3 minutes to play before halftime:

    George 17, Alabama 17

    2nd Q with 3 minutes to play before halftime:

    George 17, Alabama 17

    Sorry, read "Georgia"

    Incidentally, Crimson Tide Nick Saban, one of the winningest coaches in NCAA history, was approved to coach tonight's game after receiving 3 negative COVID tests following his positive test earlier this week. Sabin went into quarantine when he tested positive, and was released as per SEC protocol as soon as third negative was processed and confirmed.

    Halftime

    Georgia 24, Alabama 20

    Final ten seconds of 1st half was wild time; Alabama had the ball, got first down maybe 30 feet from goal line, and called for time out with 3 seconds left on clock. BUT officials screwed up, at first said clock had expired (Sabin was fit to be tide, and Bulldogs started leaving the field for their locker room.

    Then officials backtracked, said there was 1 second left. Bama kicker started to attempt field goal - then GA coach called time out, trying to ice the kicker. Who ended up belting out a kick that just made it inside the goal posts and adding final 3 points for Crimson Tide.
    Impressive efforts at aerosol generation.
    https://twitter.com/UA_Athletics/status/1317663529470668801
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    Edited comment. Have just seen Andy didn't predict a Trump win in California but a swing.

    A swing to Trump in California, all other things being equal, would be bad news for Trump because it would mean Biden isn't piling up votes uselessly in deep blue States.

    There is however some evidence that he is piling them up in deep red ones. In some places it is starting to get to the point where they may not be so useless and there is an outside chance of tipping them. Montana and Missouri are two that come to mind.

    Meanwhile I note another swing to Trump on Betfair. As yesterday, there seems to be no reason for this. Is it perhaps a time thing where overseas punters are more influential at certain times? Anyway there is 1.61 on Biden available on Biden right now if you are not already maxed out.
  • Options
    logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,714

    Andy_JS said:

    Some people (not on PB) seem to be saying that a national lockdown is a good idea simply because it wouldn't make those living in particular areas feel "singled out" so to speak. I have to say this is the most stupid argument I've ever heard in my life.

    Politically it is quite powerful.

    Many political ideas are quite stupid of course. The idea that the Greek economy and politics were going to become German just because, for example....

    Back to domestic affairs. If R is already heading back below 1, then there is going to be an interesting political narrative. Since the press can't read numbers, and so will be unable to understand that this began *before* the recent Tier system started....
    Yes that pesky two week delay makes it difficult to see when mistakes or correct decisions are being made.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,582
    Actual research paper on long Covid.
    The results are fairly disturbing - though it’s not entirely clear how the cohort was recruited, so there may be some element of self selection.

    Multi-organ impairment in low-risk individuals with long COVID
    https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.10.14.20212555v1.full.pdf
    In a young, low-risk population with ongoing symptoms, almost 70% of individuals have impairment in one or more organs four months after initial symptoms of SARS-CoV-2 infection. There are implications not only for burden of long COVID but also public health approaches which have assumed low risk in young people with no comorbidities....

    The prospective trial protocol is here:
    https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04369807
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,979
    Good morning everyone. Cheered myself up last night reading one of Bill Bryson’s books about European travel in the late 70’s. Or possibly early 80’s. Using francs and marks. And Travellers Cheques. No mention of credit cards and ATM’s!
  • Options
    Nigelb said:

    2nd Q with 3 minutes to play before halftime:

    George 17, Alabama 17

    2nd Q with 3 minutes to play before halftime:

    George 17, Alabama 17

    Sorry, read "Georgia"

    Incidentally, Crimson Tide Nick Saban, one of the winningest coaches in NCAA history, was approved to coach tonight's game after receiving 3 negative COVID tests following his positive test earlier this week. Sabin went into quarantine when he tested positive, and was released as per SEC protocol as soon as third negative was processed and confirmed.

    Halftime

    Georgia 24, Alabama 20

    Final ten seconds of 1st half was wild time; Alabama had the ball, got first down maybe 30 feet from goal line, and called for time out with 3 seconds left on clock. BUT officials screwed up, at first said clock had expired (Sabin was fit to be tide, and Bulldogs started leaving the field for their locker room.

    Then officials backtracked, said there was 1 second left. Bama kicker started to attempt field goal - then GA coach called time out, trying to ice the kicker. Who ended up belting out a kick that just made it inside the goal posts and adding final 3 points for Crimson Tide.
    Impressive efforts at aerosol generation.
    https://twitter.com/UA_Athletics/status/1317663529470668801
    Easy to see from that picture why US C19 rates are shooting up again.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,204
    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Reads like it was written by robot still learning basic English.
    Bit unfair.

    To robots, that is.
    Cheers, @ydoethur .
    I’m intrigued. Why are you grateful that I came to the defence of robots?
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,204
    edited October 2020

    Edited comment. Have just seen Andy didn't predict a Trump win in California but a swing.

    A swing to Trump in California, all other things being equal, would be bad news for Trump because it would mean Biden isn't piling up votes uselessly in deep blue States.

    There is however some evidence that he is piling them up in deep red ones. In some places it is starting to get to the point where they may not be so useless and there is an outside chance of tipping them. Montana and Missouri are two that come to mind.

    Meanwhile I note another swing to Trump on Betfair. As yesterday, there seems to be no reason for this. Is it perhaps a time thing where overseas punters are more influential at certain times? Anyway there is 1.61 on Biden available on Biden right now if you are not already maxed out.
    Blimey. If Biden even comes close in Montana and Missouri TSE will be spending the next three months talking about dockside hookers again. Montana hasn’t voted Blue in a straight fight since 1964. Even when Perot cut H’s vote in half, Clinton only took the state by a fraction.
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,597
    Love this theme tune by Dave Grusin to the 80s medical drama St Elsewhere, set in Boston MA.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ivA69Nrf0c
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    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,364
    edited October 2020

    Nigelb said:

    2nd Q with 3 minutes to play before halftime:

    George 17, Alabama 17

    2nd Q with 3 minutes to play before halftime:

    George 17, Alabama 17

    Sorry, read "Georgia"

    Incidentally, Crimson Tide Nick Saban, one of the winningest coaches in NCAA history, was approved to coach tonight's game after receiving 3 negative COVID tests following his positive test earlier this week. Sabin went into quarantine when he tested positive, and was released as per SEC protocol as soon as third negative was processed and confirmed.

    Halftime

    Georgia 24, Alabama 20

    Final ten seconds of 1st half was wild time; Alabama had the ball, got first down maybe 30 feet from goal line, and called for time out with 3 seconds left on clock. BUT officials screwed up, at first said clock had expired (Sabin was fit to be tide, and Bulldogs started leaving the field for their locker room.

    Then officials backtracked, said there was 1 second left. Bama kicker started to attempt field goal - then GA coach called time out, trying to ice the kicker. Who ended up belting out a kick that just made it inside the goal posts and adding final 3 points for Crimson Tide.
    Impressive efforts at aerosol generation.
    https://twitter.com/UA_Athletics/status/1317663529470668801
    Easy to see from that picture why US C19 rates are shooting up again.
    Is it? Masked, socially distanced spectators are neither singing nor chanting, are they? I think the music is played via speakers and is not the crowd singing. There may be a degree to which masks are regarded as magic talismen but that applies here too; we urgently need more work on how the virus actually spreads, and better coverage and application of results that are already available.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,582
    edited October 2020
    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Reads like it was written by robot still learning basic English.
    Bit unfair.

    To robots, that is.
    Cheers, @ydoethur .
    I’m intrigued. Why are you grateful that I came to the defence of robots?
    It’s an 80s pun.
    https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0083399/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0

    I sometimes forget I’m getting old.
  • Options
    Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 13,313
    edited October 2020
    ydoethur said:

    Edited comment. Have just seen Andy didn't predict a Trump win in California but a swing.

    A swing to Trump in California, all other things being equal, would be bad news for Trump because it would mean Biden isn't piling up votes uselessly in deep blue States.

    There is however some evidence that he is piling them up in deep red ones. In some places it is starting to get to the point where they may not be so useless and there is an outside chance of tipping them. Montana and Missouri are two that come to mind.

    Meanwhile I note another swing to Trump on Betfair. As yesterday, there seems to be no reason for this. Is it perhaps a time thing where overseas punters are more influential at certain times? Anyway there is 1.61 on Biden available on Biden right now if you are not already maxed out.
    Blimey. If Biden even comes close in Montana and Missouri TSE will be spending the next three months talking about dockside hookers again. Montana hasn’t voted Blue in a straight fight since 1964. Even when Perot cut H’s vote in half, Clinton only took the state by a fraction.
    The latest polls put Trump ahead by 6pts in both States. They are both lightly polled and since neither State is heavily populated it is not difficult to imagine sudden swings in either. I don't honesty think a Biden win is likely but he could go close, particular in Montana which is independent in its ways and has a long border with Canada. It will not be lost on the voters of Montana that Canada has had much greater success than the US in dealing with Covid and that this may be in large measure due to the very different approaches of the two Governments.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,981

    Edited comment. Have just seen Andy didn't predict a Trump win in California but a swing.

    A swing to Trump in California, all other things being equal, would be bad news for Trump because it would mean Biden isn't piling up votes uselessly in deep blue States.

    There is however some evidence that he is piling them up in deep red ones. In some places it is starting to get to the point where they may not be so useless and there is an outside chance of tipping them. Montana and Missouri are two that come to mind.

    Meanwhile I note another swing to Trump on Betfair. As yesterday, there seems to be no reason for this. Is it perhaps a time thing where overseas punters are more influential at certain times? Anyway there is 1.61 on Biden available on Biden right now if you are not already maxed out.
    I've finally bet on Biden.
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,979

    Nigelb said:

    2nd Q with 3 minutes to play before halftime:

    George 17, Alabama 17

    2nd Q with 3 minutes to play before halftime:

    George 17, Alabama 17

    Sorry, read "Georgia"

    Incidentally, Crimson Tide Nick Saban, one of the winningest coaches in NCAA history, was approved to coach tonight's game after receiving 3 negative COVID tests following his positive test earlier this week. Sabin went into quarantine when he tested positive, and was released as per SEC protocol as soon as third negative was processed and confirmed.

    Halftime

    Georgia 24, Alabama 20

    Final ten seconds of 1st half was wild time; Alabama had the ball, got first down maybe 30 feet from goal line, and called for time out with 3 seconds left on clock. BUT officials screwed up, at first said clock had expired (Sabin was fit to be tide, and Bulldogs started leaving the field for their locker room.

    Then officials backtracked, said there was 1 second left. Bama kicker started to attempt field goal - then GA coach called time out, trying to ice the kicker. Who ended up belting out a kick that just made it inside the goal posts and adding final 3 points for Crimson Tide.
    Impressive efforts at aerosol generation.
    https://twitter.com/UA_Athletics/status/1317663529470668801
    Easy to see from that picture why US C19 rates are shooting up again.
    Compare and contrast with the eerie, but superb RL Challenge Cup final yesterday afternoon. One of the best games I've seen for ages and no-one in the ground to cheer.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,582

    Nigelb said:

    2nd Q with 3 minutes to play before halftime:

    George 17, Alabama 17

    2nd Q with 3 minutes to play before halftime:

    George 17, Alabama 17

    Sorry, read "Georgia"

    Incidentally, Crimson Tide Nick Saban, one of the winningest coaches in NCAA history, was approved to coach tonight's game after receiving 3 negative COVID tests following his positive test earlier this week. Sabin went into quarantine when he tested positive, and was released as per SEC protocol as soon as third negative was processed and confirmed.

    Halftime

    Georgia 24, Alabama 20

    Final ten seconds of 1st half was wild time; Alabama had the ball, got first down maybe 30 feet from goal line, and called for time out with 3 seconds left on clock. BUT officials screwed up, at first said clock had expired (Sabin was fit to be tide, and Bulldogs started leaving the field for their locker room.

    Then officials backtracked, said there was 1 second left. Bama kicker started to attempt field goal - then GA coach called time out, trying to ice the kicker. Who ended up belting out a kick that just made it inside the goal posts and adding final 3 points for Crimson Tide.
    Impressive efforts at aerosol generation.
    https://twitter.com/UA_Athletics/status/1317663529470668801
    Easy to see from that picture why US C19 rates are shooting up again.
    Is it? Masked, socially distanced spectators are neither singing nor chanting, are they? I think the music is played via speakers and is not the crowd singing. There may be a degree to which masks are regarded as magic talismen but that applies here too; we urgently need more work on how the virus actually spreads, and better coverage and application of results that are already available.
    Which is fair comment. It is outdoors, and a large majority appear to be masked. OTOH, they are fairly crowded, and engaging in fairly strenuous activity.
    Let’s put it this way I wouldn’t choose to be there.
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    Nigelb said:

    2nd Q with 3 minutes to play before halftime:

    George 17, Alabama 17

    2nd Q with 3 minutes to play before halftime:

    George 17, Alabama 17

    Sorry, read "Georgia"

    Incidentally, Crimson Tide Nick Saban, one of the winningest coaches in NCAA history, was approved to coach tonight's game after receiving 3 negative COVID tests following his positive test earlier this week. Sabin went into quarantine when he tested positive, and was released as per SEC protocol as soon as third negative was processed and confirmed.

    Halftime

    Georgia 24, Alabama 20

    Final ten seconds of 1st half was wild time; Alabama had the ball, got first down maybe 30 feet from goal line, and called for time out with 3 seconds left on clock. BUT officials screwed up, at first said clock had expired (Sabin was fit to be tide, and Bulldogs started leaving the field for their locker room.

    Then officials backtracked, said there was 1 second left. Bama kicker started to attempt field goal - then GA coach called time out, trying to ice the kicker. Who ended up belting out a kick that just made it inside the goal posts and adding final 3 points for Crimson Tide.
    Impressive efforts at aerosol generation.
    https://twitter.com/UA_Athletics/status/1317663529470668801
    Easy to see from that picture why US C19 rates are shooting up again.
    Compare and contrast with the eerie, but superb RL Challenge Cup final yesterday afternoon. One of the best games I've seen for ages and no-one in the ground to cheer.
    It's a shame, but it is safer.

    I did think that it might be possible for soccer and rugby to be played in front of crowds limited to 25% capacity but apparently that actually costs more than having an empty stadium.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,274

    Good morning everyone. Cheered myself up last night reading one of Bill Bryson’s books about European travel in the late 70’s. Or possibly early 80’s. Using francs and marks. And Travellers Cheques. No mention of credit cards and ATM’s!

    God, weren’t travellers cheques awful? Those weren’t the days.

    The other awful thing I remember was taking those dreadful water purification tables everywhere and having drink the foul tasting water they produced.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,204
    I see the government has announced that the NHS track and trace app data will be shared with the police.

    Thereby guaranteeing nobody will use it.

    Are these people actually corrupt or just fucking stupid?
  • Options
    rcs1000 said:

    Edited comment. Have just seen Andy didn't predict a Trump win in California but a swing.

    A swing to Trump in California, all other things being equal, would be bad news for Trump because it would mean Biden isn't piling up votes uselessly in deep blue States.

    There is however some evidence that he is piling them up in deep red ones. In some places it is starting to get to the point where they may not be so useless and there is an outside chance of tipping them. Montana and Missouri are two that come to mind.

    Meanwhile I note another swing to Trump on Betfair. As yesterday, there seems to be no reason for this. Is it perhaps a time thing where overseas punters are more influential at certain times? Anyway there is 1.61 on Biden available on Biden right now if you are not already maxed out.
    I've finally bet on Biden.
    Out in California
    Where all men are men
    Reckless Rob went solo
    On ace, king, queen, jack, ten.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,582
    One of Barrett’s cases.
    https://www.wjiinc.org/blog/appeals-court-reverses-67-million-jail-rape-verdict

    This is going to be the justice who replaces Ginsburg ?
    Repulsive.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,204

    rcs1000 said:

    Edited comment. Have just seen Andy didn't predict a Trump win in California but a swing.

    A swing to Trump in California, all other things being equal, would be bad news for Trump because it would mean Biden isn't piling up votes uselessly in deep blue States.

    There is however some evidence that he is piling them up in deep red ones. In some places it is starting to get to the point where they may not be so useless and there is an outside chance of tipping them. Montana and Missouri are two that come to mind.

    Meanwhile I note another swing to Trump on Betfair. As yesterday, there seems to be no reason for this. Is it perhaps a time thing where overseas punters are more influential at certain times? Anyway there is 1.61 on Biden available on Biden right now if you are not already maxed out.
    I've finally bet on Biden.
    Out in California
    Where all men are men
    Reckless Rob went solo
    On ace, king, queen, jack, ten.
    Biden isn’t exactly an ace, but he still beats the knave.
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,979

    Nigelb said:

    2nd Q with 3 minutes to play before halftime:

    George 17, Alabama 17

    2nd Q with 3 minutes to play before halftime:

    George 17, Alabama 17

    Sorry, read "Georgia"

    Incidentally, Crimson Tide Nick Saban, one of the winningest coaches in NCAA history, was approved to coach tonight's game after receiving 3 negative COVID tests following his positive test earlier this week. Sabin went into quarantine when he tested positive, and was released as per SEC protocol as soon as third negative was processed and confirmed.

    Halftime

    Georgia 24, Alabama 20

    Final ten seconds of 1st half was wild time; Alabama had the ball, got first down maybe 30 feet from goal line, and called for time out with 3 seconds left on clock. BUT officials screwed up, at first said clock had expired (Sabin was fit to be tide, and Bulldogs started leaving the field for their locker room.

    Then officials backtracked, said there was 1 second left. Bama kicker started to attempt field goal - then GA coach called time out, trying to ice the kicker. Who ended up belting out a kick that just made it inside the goal posts and adding final 3 points for Crimson Tide.
    Impressive efforts at aerosol generation.
    https://twitter.com/UA_Athletics/status/1317663529470668801
    Easy to see from that picture why US C19 rates are shooting up again.
    Compare and contrast with the eerie, but superb RL Challenge Cup final yesterday afternoon. One of the best games I've seen for ages and no-one in the ground to cheer.
    It's a shame, but it is safer.

    I did think that it might be possible for soccer and rugby to be played in front of crowds limited to 25% capacity but apparently that actually costs more than having an empty stadium.
    Non-League football is allowed 'crowds'. There was an unkind pub discussion about whether our local team could actually get up to the numbers allowed to attend!
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,274
    edited October 2020
    This one of Bozo’s madcap ideas passed me by at the time:

    Few regard his calamity-studded stint as foreign secretary as his finest hour. Yet his myriad gaffes and blunders are excused on the grounds that he had been “set up” to fail by May and was then let down by “recalcitrant Foreign Office mandarins”. The author blames civil servants for thwarting a Johnsonian wheeze to buy an island in the Arctic Ocean from Norway to turn it into a spy base. Others may think it never happened because it was one of Johnson’s many fantasy projects.

    https://www.theguardian.com/books/2020/oct/18/boris-johnson-the-gambler-review-no-blame-no-shame
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,582
    .
    ydoethur said:

    I see the government has announced that the NHS track and trace app data will be shared with the police.

    Thereby guaranteeing nobody will use it.

    Are these people actually corrupt or just fucking stupid?

    Do we have to choose ?
  • Options
    16 days to go.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,204
    Nigelb said:

    .

    ydoethur said:

    I see the government has announced that the NHS track and trace app data will be shared with the police.

    Thereby guaranteeing nobody will use it.

    Are these people actually corrupt or just fucking stupid?

    Do we have to choose ?
    Well, if they’re corrupt I’m accepting they’re stupid. Which is why the alternative was ‘just’ fucking stupid.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,582
    edited October 2020
    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    ydoethur said:

    I see the government has announced that the NHS track and trace app data will be shared with the police.

    Thereby guaranteeing nobody will use it.

    Are these people actually corrupt or just fucking stupid?

    Do we have to choose ?
    Well, if they’re corrupt I’m accepting they’re stupid. Which is why the alternative was ‘just’ fucking stupid.
    Good point.
    It’s early in the morning and I have a cold (not Covid), so I’m not at my sharpest.

    Are they corrupt ... ?
    Oracle CEO donated $250K to Graham Super PAC days before TikTok deal went through
    https://thehill.com/homenews/521538-oracle-ceo-donated-250k-to-graham-super-pac-days-before-tiktok-deal-went-through

  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,204

    16 days to go.

    Time to remind ourselves of what the Yanks are voting for:
    https://youtu.be/7b059NjtWJQ
  • Options

    Nigelb said:

    2nd Q with 3 minutes to play before halftime:

    George 17, Alabama 17

    2nd Q with 3 minutes to play before halftime:

    George 17, Alabama 17

    Sorry, read "Georgia"

    Incidentally, Crimson Tide Nick Saban, one of the winningest coaches in NCAA history, was approved to coach tonight's game after receiving 3 negative COVID tests following his positive test earlier this week. Sabin went into quarantine when he tested positive, and was released as per SEC protocol as soon as third negative was processed and confirmed.

    Halftime

    Georgia 24, Alabama 20

    Final ten seconds of 1st half was wild time; Alabama had the ball, got first down maybe 30 feet from goal line, and called for time out with 3 seconds left on clock. BUT officials screwed up, at first said clock had expired (Sabin was fit to be tide, and Bulldogs started leaving the field for their locker room.

    Then officials backtracked, said there was 1 second left. Bama kicker started to attempt field goal - then GA coach called time out, trying to ice the kicker. Who ended up belting out a kick that just made it inside the goal posts and adding final 3 points for Crimson Tide.
    Impressive efforts at aerosol generation.
    https://twitter.com/UA_Athletics/status/1317663529470668801
    Easy to see from that picture why US C19 rates are shooting up again.
    Compare and contrast with the eerie, but superb RL Challenge Cup final yesterday afternoon. One of the best games I've seen for ages and no-one in the ground to cheer.
    It's a shame, but it is safer.

    I did think that it might be possible for soccer and rugby to be played in front of crowds limited to 25% capacity but apparently that actually costs more than having an empty stadium.
    Non-League football is allowed 'crowds'. There was an unkind pub discussion about whether our local team could actually get up to the numbers allowed to attend!
    Well I have to say social distancing has not been a problem at Leyton Orient for a very long time.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,204

    Nigelb said:

    2nd Q with 3 minutes to play before halftime:

    George 17, Alabama 17

    2nd Q with 3 minutes to play before halftime:

    George 17, Alabama 17

    Sorry, read "Georgia"

    Incidentally, Crimson Tide Nick Saban, one of the winningest coaches in NCAA history, was approved to coach tonight's game after receiving 3 negative COVID tests following his positive test earlier this week. Sabin went into quarantine when he tested positive, and was released as per SEC protocol as soon as third negative was processed and confirmed.

    Halftime

    Georgia 24, Alabama 20

    Final ten seconds of 1st half was wild time; Alabama had the ball, got first down maybe 30 feet from goal line, and called for time out with 3 seconds left on clock. BUT officials screwed up, at first said clock had expired (Sabin was fit to be tide, and Bulldogs started leaving the field for their locker room.

    Then officials backtracked, said there was 1 second left. Bama kicker started to attempt field goal - then GA coach called time out, trying to ice the kicker. Who ended up belting out a kick that just made it inside the goal posts and adding final 3 points for Crimson Tide.
    Impressive efforts at aerosol generation.
    https://twitter.com/UA_Athletics/status/1317663529470668801
    Easy to see from that picture why US C19 rates are shooting up again.
    Compare and contrast with the eerie, but superb RL Challenge Cup final yesterday afternoon. One of the best games I've seen for ages and no-one in the ground to cheer.
    It's a shame, but it is safer.

    I did think that it might be possible for soccer and rugby to be played in front of crowds limited to 25% capacity but apparently that actually costs more than having an empty stadium.
    Non-League football is allowed 'crowds'. There was an unkind pub discussion about whether our local team could actually get up to the numbers allowed to attend!
    Well I have to say social distancing has not been a problem at Leyton Orient for a very long time.
    Even easier in county cricket.
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,979
    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    2nd Q with 3 minutes to play before halftime:

    George 17, Alabama 17

    2nd Q with 3 minutes to play before halftime:

    George 17, Alabama 17

    Sorry, read "Georgia"

    Incidentally, Crimson Tide Nick Saban, one of the winningest coaches in NCAA history, was approved to coach tonight's game after receiving 3 negative COVID tests following his positive test earlier this week. Sabin went into quarantine when he tested positive, and was released as per SEC protocol as soon as third negative was processed and confirmed.

    Halftime

    Georgia 24, Alabama 20

    Final ten seconds of 1st half was wild time; Alabama had the ball, got first down maybe 30 feet from goal line, and called for time out with 3 seconds left on clock. BUT officials screwed up, at first said clock had expired (Sabin was fit to be tide, and Bulldogs started leaving the field for their locker room.

    Then officials backtracked, said there was 1 second left. Bama kicker started to attempt field goal - then GA coach called time out, trying to ice the kicker. Who ended up belting out a kick that just made it inside the goal posts and adding final 3 points for Crimson Tide.
    Impressive efforts at aerosol generation.
    https://twitter.com/UA_Athletics/status/1317663529470668801
    Easy to see from that picture why US C19 rates are shooting up again.
    Compare and contrast with the eerie, but superb RL Challenge Cup final yesterday afternoon. One of the best games I've seen for ages and no-one in the ground to cheer.
    It's a shame, but it is safer.

    I did think that it might be possible for soccer and rugby to be played in front of crowds limited to 25% capacity but apparently that actually costs more than having an empty stadium.
    Non-League football is allowed 'crowds'. There was an unkind pub discussion about whether our local team could actually get up to the numbers allowed to attend!
    Well I have to say social distancing has not been a problem at Leyton Orient for a very long time.
    Even easier in county cricket.
    Depends who you watch; members areas at Essex are often quite full.
  • Options
    ydoethur said:

    16 days to go.

    Time to remind ourselves of what the Yanks are voting for:
    https://youtu.be/7b059NjtWJQ
    That's excellent. Many a true word there too...
  • Options
    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,138
    edited October 2020
    Deflected - stupid post.
  • Options
    not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,341

    Andy_JS said:

    It'll be interesting to see if Trump gets a slight swing in his favour in states like California, Oregon, Washington compared to 2016. I think he will in California. Not sure about the other two. Something odd is definitely going on in California at the moment, in the sense that the population has failed to increase for the first time since it became part of the United States.

    https://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/population-shrinks-in-california-still-most-populous-state/2355776/

    1. Re: possible West Coast swing to Trumpsky, we will see but do NOT bet on it. Mainly because (as polling shows here and elsewhere) he is tanking with suburban voters, who are THE key swing voters in these states. They've been swing away from GOP for decades, a process that Trumpsky has accelerated to something approaching warp speed.

    2. Re: California, success has caught up with the Golden State, like it did decades ago for New York, Pennsylvania, Michigan and Illinois.

    Note that following 2010 census, Golden State only gained 1 new seat in US House, compared to much larger gains in previous censuses.

    Why the fall from the days when "California Here I Come" was a national mantra? Largely because while there was robust international AND domestic migration into Cali, there was also an increasing outflow of people leaving for places like Arizona, Nevada, Oregon, Washington and Idaho due to housing (expensive), transportation (punishing commutes) and other cost of living / quality of life issues.
    The migration or CA residents to states like Arizona and Texas is one of the key reasons why those states are now competitive.


  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,204

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    2nd Q with 3 minutes to play before halftime:

    George 17, Alabama 17

    2nd Q with 3 minutes to play before halftime:

    George 17, Alabama 17

    Sorry, read "Georgia"

    Incidentally, Crimson Tide Nick Saban, one of the winningest coaches in NCAA history, was approved to coach tonight's game after receiving 3 negative COVID tests following his positive test earlier this week. Sabin went into quarantine when he tested positive, and was released as per SEC protocol as soon as third negative was processed and confirmed.

    Halftime

    Georgia 24, Alabama 20

    Final ten seconds of 1st half was wild time; Alabama had the ball, got first down maybe 30 feet from goal line, and called for time out with 3 seconds left on clock. BUT officials screwed up, at first said clock had expired (Sabin was fit to be tide, and Bulldogs started leaving the field for their locker room.

    Then officials backtracked, said there was 1 second left. Bama kicker started to attempt field goal - then GA coach called time out, trying to ice the kicker. Who ended up belting out a kick that just made it inside the goal posts and adding final 3 points for Crimson Tide.
    Impressive efforts at aerosol generation.
    https://twitter.com/UA_Athletics/status/1317663529470668801
    Easy to see from that picture why US C19 rates are shooting up again.
    Compare and contrast with the eerie, but superb RL Challenge Cup final yesterday afternoon. One of the best games I've seen for ages and no-one in the ground to cheer.
    It's a shame, but it is safer.

    I did think that it might be possible for soccer and rugby to be played in front of crowds limited to 25% capacity but apparently that actually costs more than having an empty stadium.
    Non-League football is allowed 'crowds'. There was an unkind pub discussion about whether our local team could actually get up to the numbers allowed to attend!
    Well I have to say social distancing has not been a problem at Leyton Orient for a very long time.
    Even easier in county cricket.
    Depends who you watch; members areas at Essex are often quite full.
    I’ll take your word for it. I’ve never been to Chelmsford. My father was and he came back overflowing with nice words about how friendly everyone was and how well they’d looked after him. I gather they were so surprised a Gloucestershire supporter had travelled all the way over there they gave him free entry to the members’ enclosure!
  • Options
    nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    Nigelb said:

    2nd Q with 3 minutes to play before halftime:

    George 17, Alabama 17

    2nd Q with 3 minutes to play before halftime:

    George 17, Alabama 17

    Sorry, read "Georgia"

    Incidentally, Crimson Tide Nick Saban, one of the winningest coaches in NCAA history, was approved to coach tonight's game after receiving 3 negative COVID tests following his positive test earlier this week. Sabin went into quarantine when he tested positive, and was released as per SEC protocol as soon as third negative was processed and confirmed.

    Halftime

    Georgia 24, Alabama 20

    Final ten seconds of 1st half was wild time; Alabama had the ball, got first down maybe 30 feet from goal line, and called for time out with 3 seconds left on clock. BUT officials screwed up, at first said clock had expired (Sabin was fit to be tide, and Bulldogs started leaving the field for their locker room.

    Then officials backtracked, said there was 1 second left. Bama kicker started to attempt field goal - then GA coach called time out, trying to ice the kicker. Who ended up belting out a kick that just made it inside the goal posts and adding final 3 points for Crimson Tide.
    Impressive efforts at aerosol generation.
    https://twitter.com/UA_Athletics/status/1317663529470668801
    Easy to see from that picture why US C19 rates are shooting up again.
    Compare and contrast with the eerie, but superb RL Challenge Cup final yesterday afternoon. One of the best games I've seen for ages and no-one in the ground to cheer.
    It's a shame, but it is safer.

    I did think that it might be possible for soccer and rugby to be played in front of crowds limited to 25% capacity but apparently that actually costs more than having an empty stadium.
    Non-League football is allowed 'crowds'. There was an unkind pub discussion about whether our local team could actually get up to the numbers allowed to attend!
    They’re not in National league
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,204
    DougSeal said:

    Deflected - stupid post.

    Truthful, though.
  • Options
    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,138
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    2nd Q with 3 minutes to play before halftime:

    George 17, Alabama 17

    2nd Q with 3 minutes to play before halftime:

    George 17, Alabama 17

    Sorry, read "Georgia"

    Incidentally, Crimson Tide Nick Saban, one of the winningest coaches in NCAA history, was approved to coach tonight's game after receiving 3 negative COVID tests following his positive test earlier this week. Sabin went into quarantine when he tested positive, and was released as per SEC protocol as soon as third negative was processed and confirmed.

    Halftime

    Georgia 24, Alabama 20

    Final ten seconds of 1st half was wild time; Alabama had the ball, got first down maybe 30 feet from goal line, and called for time out with 3 seconds left on clock. BUT officials screwed up, at first said clock had expired (Sabin was fit to be tide, and Bulldogs started leaving the field for their locker room.

    Then officials backtracked, said there was 1 second left. Bama kicker started to attempt field goal - then GA coach called time out, trying to ice the kicker. Who ended up belting out a kick that just made it inside the goal posts and adding final 3 points for Crimson Tide.
    Impressive efforts at aerosol generation.
    https://twitter.com/UA_Athletics/status/1317663529470668801
    Easy to see from that picture why US C19 rates are shooting up again.
    Compare and contrast with the eerie, but superb RL Challenge Cup final yesterday afternoon. One of the best games I've seen for ages and no-one in the ground to cheer.
    It's a shame, but it is safer.

    I did think that it might be possible for soccer and rugby to be played in front of crowds limited to 25% capacity but apparently that actually costs more than having an empty stadium.
    Non-League football is allowed 'crowds'. There was an unkind pub discussion about whether our local team could actually get up to the numbers allowed to attend!
    Well I have to say social distancing has not been a problem at Leyton Orient for a very long time.
    Even easier in county cricket.
    Depends who you watch; members areas at Essex are often quite full.
    I’ll take your word for it. I’ve never been to Chelmsford. My father was and he came back overflowing with nice words about how friendly everyone was and how well they’d looked after him. I gather they were so surprised a Gloucestershire supporter had travelled all the way over there they gave him free entry to the members’ enclosure!
    I went to school next to the St Lawrence Ground in Canterbury. Used to be lovely but, even taking into account the loss of the tree, they have ruined it (albeit largely because they had to sell bits). Back in 1992 I could follow the B&H Semi Finals against Surrey during my A-Levels. Every time Kent took a wicket the silence of the school gym was ruined by a huge cheer and we went to watch the end after the exam ended. Nostalgia isn’t what it was...
  • Options
    StockyStocky Posts: 9,718
    ydoethur said:

    I see the government has announced that the NHS track and trace app data will be shared with the police.

    Thereby guaranteeing nobody will use it.

    Are these people actually corrupt or just fucking stupid?

    Good grief. Words fail me.
    Well - there’s a development that the LibDems should be furious about- let’s see if anything happens .
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,983
    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. Stocky, must agree that the intended good of enforcement will be far outweighed by people deleting the app and therefore decreasing its usefulness.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,582
    edited October 2020
    Stocky said:

    ydoethur said:

    I see the government has announced that the NHS track and trace app data will be shared with the police.

    Thereby guaranteeing nobody will use it.

    Are these people actually corrupt or just fucking stupid?

    Good grief. Words fail me.
    Well - there’s a development that the LibDems should be furious about- let’s see if anything happens .
    Ed Davey has come out strongly against it.
    Perhaps the first time we’ve heard from him ?

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/17/police-get-access-to-people-told-of-self-isolate-by-nhs-test-and-trace
    ... Ed Davey, the Liberal Democrat leader, said ministers should “reverse the policy urgently”, calling it a “huge mistake”.

    “Anything that further undermines the public’s dwindling trust in this government’s handling of the pandemic is damaging, and few things could have been better designed to do that than this,” he said.

    “Asking our already overstretched police service to take on this task is both self-defeating and a serious misjudgment.”
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,991
    edited October 2020
    dixiedean said:

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:
    So really clear that those ruling us are a million miles from what we want

    Not sustainable

    Viva Le Republic de Mancunia
    On which subject here is Jen Williams' digest of the week.

    https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/melodrama-melancholy-madness-inside-greater-19122824

    "The discontent successfully exploited by the Conservatives during last year’s general election in areas like this didn’t vanish when the polls closed and it was certainly apparent this week.

    “It’s been slowly brewing for decades,” says one official of the resentment that has erupted in the past few days, a sentiment by no means unique to Greater Manchester.

    “Covid has really been the last straw.” "
    There are plenty of southerners on here who do not realise that we are heading towards a very divided country.

    Greater Manc population is almost the same as Wales with a much larger economy.

    We are not far from an anti-south party doing very very very well around here,
    Perhaps people do not see that because the same two parties as always continue to dominate as they have for 100 years. Sure, that doesn't mean they will continue to do so, but electorally where's the sign people are yearning for an anti-south party, or for one of the big ones to be more explicitly anti-south?

    Brexit.

    Definitely driven in part by resentment and anger from being left behind.
    "Red Wall" also. A rejection of a deeply Londoncentric Labour which failed to heed the north.
    From which the Tories, (not their new found Northern Mps), but the Johnson/Cummings clique, appear to be drawing all the wrong lessons.
    It is no different to the divide across many of the big Western nations now eg the ex industrial areas which voted for Trump or Le Pen v the wealthier knowledge economy areas which voted for Clinton or Macron, same as the divide between Brexit and Remain areas in the UK.

    If the Tories really ignored the North they would also have conceded to the EU on state aid and prevented the UK government giving state aid to industry in the North, that is not something I would be too bothered about for a trade deal with the EU but it is something Northern Leave voters would be bothered about
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,274

    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. Stocky, must agree that the intended good of enforcement will be far outweighed by people deleting the app and therefore decreasing its usefulness.

    I was never going to let an App force me to stay at home for two weeks in any case.

    It's one thing going to get a test and staying away from people until you get the result. It's another having some geek's algorithm make a criminal of you if you leave home during 14 days.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,991
  • Options
    IanB2 said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. Stocky, must agree that the intended good of enforcement will be far outweighed by people deleting the app and therefore decreasing its usefulness.

    I was never going to let an App force me to stay at home for two weeks in any case.

    It's one thing going to get a test and staying away from people until you get the result. It's another having some geek's algorithm make a criminal of you if you leave home during 14 days.
    I thought the whole point of the Google and Apple API was that it was anonymous?
  • Options
    alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    edited October 2020
    ydoethur said:

    I see the government has announced that the NHS track and trace app data will be shared with the police.

    Thereby guaranteeing nobody will use it.

    Are these people actually corrupt or just fucking stupid?

    Although, and presumably it won't make a difference as nobody understands how the app works, but the "track and trace data" is the scanning of QR codes to get into venues. It would equally apply to venues still asking for names and phone numbers on entry. And the way that the QR codes on the app work, you can basically check into the venue and immediately check out again. It's not the bluetooth notifications which are anonymous.
  • Options
    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,138
    HYUFD said:
    Disgraceful. That’s going to play badly amongst swing voters. He’s toast.
  • Options
    alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518

    IanB2 said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. Stocky, must agree that the intended good of enforcement will be far outweighed by people deleting the app and therefore decreasing its usefulness.

    I was never going to let an App force me to stay at home for two weeks in any case.

    It's one thing going to get a test and staying away from people until you get the result. It's another having some geek's algorithm make a criminal of you if you leave home during 14 days.
    I thought the whole point of the Google and Apple API was that it was anonymous?
    It is. It's the QR venue codes which aren't. I think.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,991
    edited October 2020
    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:
    Disgraceful. That’s going to play badly amongst swing voters. He’s toast.
    Is it though? And those are all Michigan voters there, the energy is still there for the Trump campaign in Michigan it seems and given he won the state last time he just needs to get his 2016 vote out for him again
  • Options
    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,138
    https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1317579580769751040

    Does he WANT to lose in Michigan? She’s their elected governor.
  • Options
    nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    HYUFD said:

    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:
    Disgraceful. That’s going to play badly amongst swing voters. He’s toast.
    Is it though? And those are all Michigan voters there, the energy is still there for the Trump campaign in Michigan it seems and given he won the state last time he just needs to get his 2016 vote out for him again
    Maybe they will all be in hospital come 3/11
  • Options
    alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    HYUFD said:

    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:
    Disgraceful. That’s going to play badly amongst swing voters. He’s toast.
    Is it though? And those are all Michigan voters there, the energy is still there for the Trump campaign in Michigan it seems and given he won the state last time he just needs to get his 2016 vote out for him again
    Don't you think there might have been a lot of anti-Trump voters last time who sat on their hands, and might actually vote this time?
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,991
    edited October 2020
    alex_ said:

    HYUFD said:

    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:
    Disgraceful. That’s going to play badly amongst swing voters. He’s toast.
    Is it though? And those are all Michigan voters there, the energy is still there for the Trump campaign in Michigan it seems and given he won the state last time he just needs to get his 2016 vote out for him again
    Don't you think there might have been a lot of anti-Trump voters last time who sat on their hands, and might actually vote this time?
    If they were really anti Trump they would not have sat on their hands but voted against him in 2016 for Hillary
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,230

    Meanwhile I note another swing to Trump on Betfair. As yesterday, there seems to be no reason for this. Is it perhaps a time thing where overseas punters are more influential at certain times? Anyway there is 1.61 on Biden available on Biden right now if you are not already maxed out.

    Is this not reversion to the mean now that it is clear Trump won't die of Covid-19?
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    HYUFD said:

    alex_ said:

    HYUFD said:

    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:
    Disgraceful. That’s going to play badly amongst swing voters. He’s toast.
    Is it though? And those are all Michigan voters there, the energy is still there for the Trump campaign in Michigan it seems and given he won the state last time he just needs to get his 2016 vote out for him again
    Don't you think there might have been a lot of anti-Trump voters last time who sat on their hands, and might actually vote this time?
    If they were really anti Trump they would not have sat on their hands but voted against him in 2016 for Hillary
    Oh, FFS. Trump in power was an unknown quantity in 2016. Now he is a known quantity.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,582
    HYUFD said:

    alex_ said:

    HYUFD said:

    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:
    Disgraceful. That’s going to play badly amongst swing voters. He’s toast.
    Is it though? And those are all Michigan voters there, the energy is still there for the Trump campaign in Michigan it seems and given he won the state last time he just needs to get his 2016 vote out for him again
    Don't you think there might have been a lot of anti-Trump voters last time who sat on their hands, and might actually vote this time?
    If they were really anti Trump they would not have sat on their hands but voted against him in 2016 for Hillary
    Sure, let’s pretend the last for years didn’t happen, and Hillary is still running.
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    Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 7,981
    IanB2 said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. Stocky, must agree that the intended good of enforcement will be far outweighed by people deleting the app and therefore decreasing its usefulness.

    I was never going to let an App force me to stay at home for two weeks in any case.

    It's one thing going to get a test and staying away from people until you get the result. It's another having some geek's algorithm make a criminal of you if you leave home during 14 days.
    Indeed. I have not downloaded any Covid app nor have I got a QR code to wave around and I do not intend to get one either. If somewhere requires me to get one before entering their premises then they can manage without my business.
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    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,173
    Cheers!
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    IanB2 said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. Stocky, must agree that the intended good of enforcement will be far outweighed by people deleting the app and therefore decreasing its usefulness.

    I was never going to let an App force me to stay at home for two weeks in any case.

    It's one thing going to get a test and staying away from people until you get the result. It's another having some geek's algorithm make a criminal of you if you leave home during 14 days.
    Indeed. I have not downloaded any Covid app nor have I got a QR code to wave around and I do not intend to get one either. If somewhere requires me to get one before entering their premises then they can manage without my business.
    The business has the QR code, typically printed on A4 posters stuck on the wall. The customer scans the pub's or restaurant's QR code, using the app on their smartphone.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,896
    University President in New York resigns, after 700 students test positive for Covid following decision not to test them on arrival.

    https://edition.cnn.com/2020/10/16/us/suny-oneonta-president-resigns-covid19-trnd/index.html

    Will any British Vice-Chancellors follow that lead and fall on their own sword I wonder? Actually I don't wonder, of course they won't. Why did universities not routinely test arrivals, given they have labs and resources to do so?
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    Meanwhile I note another swing to Trump on Betfair. As yesterday, there seems to be no reason for this. Is it perhaps a time thing where overseas punters are more influential at certain times? Anyway there is 1.61 on Biden available on Biden right now if you are not already maxed out.

    Is this not reversion to the mean now that it is clear Trump won't die of Covid-19?
    No. It has nothing to do with regression to the mean. The possibility of Trump dying or otherwise withdrawing is reflected in the difference between the price for Trump and the price against the Republican candidate, and the same for Biden and the Democrats. Right now, this risk premium exists only for Biden.

    Biden 1.62
    Democrat 1.6

    Trump 2.62
    Republican 2.62
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,923
    DavidL said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Republicans in a Twitter rage over Hunter Biden story
    Social media once again finds itself at the centre of controversy over bias and disinformation"

    https://www.ft.com/content/0aa949e8-91ca-4cc3-b4fa-6af172bc9226

    Republicans banging on about Hunter Biden when the whole Trump clan has been at it for the past 4 years is the rankest projectionism. "SAD!"
    Trump and his gang are the most corrupt administration in my life time, gouging off the public purse at every opportunity, but that doesn't make the Hunter Biden story ok. Its yet another example of how poor the choice Americans have this time.
    Only just beat Johnson and his gang as well, UK is fast approaching banana republic status.
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    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,138
    edited October 2020
    HYUFD said:

    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:
    Disgraceful. That’s going to play badly amongst swing voters. He’s toast.
    Is it though? And those are all Michigan voters there, the energy is still there for the Trump campaign in Michigan it seems and given he won the state last time he just needs to get his 2016 vote out for him again
    I knew you’d say that - which is why I had this post predrafted.

    You are obsessed with 2016. 2016 is over, gone, in the past. They are all in that picture Michigan voters who have made their minds up already. They are baked in. He needs to swing some from the Dem and undecided camp over. Even your beloved Trafalgar Group only has him 1 point up In Michigan - they overstated him by nearly 2 points in 2016. The rest have him deep underwater. You continually say you expect 2016 polling results to repeat. So on your own logic, unless Trafalgar have changed their model their model to improve accuracy (they haven’t changed it) he is, on your assumption that 2016 results repeat, probably losing even with Trafalgar.

    He has terrible marks even from Republicans on his Covid-19 response. Pictures like this on the TV will just reenforce those terrible optics. That, together with shots of him encouraging the crowd to shout “lock her up” about their own elected governor, whose only crime appears to have been to put in place stringent but popular lockdown measures, a rally will not do what it did last time. Whitmer is quite popular (51% favourable to 41% unfavourable in the last poll I saw) Clinton wasn’t at all popular. So encouraging those chats against, a popular governor in her own state, will have a negative effect In Michigan. It’s a different world, different priorities and a different candidate. Trump isn’t a fresh unknown anymore. Unlike 2016 there is a rampant deadly pandemic that has been worsened by these very rallies.

    Finally, I have permission to share this from my wife. My wife’s godparents are registered Republicans. The husband is a massive, enormous, Trump fan. The wife loathes Trump with a passion. She confided this to my mother-in-law (her best friend) on condition the husband must never find out. My mother-in-law told my wife though. So there are, anecdotally at least, “Shy Bidenites” as well.

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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,923
    LadyG said:

    Don't want to get too personal, but, PB, I have had little flashes of suicidal ideation in recent weeks.

    They are very odd. Like little electric shocks. Sudden thoughts of: DO IT

    My personal circs are somewhat gloomy but far from awful. Billions of humans face a life, on the face of it, infinitely worse than mine.

    Advice?

    I am 98% sure I'd never act on these odd impulses; on the other hand I have never had them before, and I have been in far worse places (ostensibly). Very odd.

    Sorry to hear that and hope you stay safe.Unfortunately not qualified to give any advice on the topic.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,896

    Andy_JS said:

    It'll be interesting to see if Trump gets a slight swing in his favour in states like California, Oregon, Washington compared to 2016. I think he will in California. Not sure about the other two. Something odd is definitely going on in California at the moment, in the sense that the population has failed to increase for the first time since it became part of the United States.

    https://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/population-shrinks-in-california-still-most-populous-state/2355776/

    1. Re: possible West Coast swing to Trumpsky, we will see but do NOT bet on it. Mainly because (as polling shows here and elsewhere) he is tanking with suburban voters, who are THE key swing voters in these states. They've been swing away from GOP for decades, a process that Trumpsky has accelerated to something approaching warp speed.

    2. Re: California, success has caught up with the Golden State, like it did decades ago for New York, Pennsylvania, Michigan and Illinois.

    Note that following 2010 census, Golden State only gained 1 new seat in US House, compared to much larger gains in previous censuses.

    Why the fall from the days when "California Here I Come" was a national mantra? Largely because while there was robust international AND domestic migration into Cali, there was also an increasing outflow of people leaving for places like Arizona, Nevada, Oregon, Washington and Idaho due to housing (expensive), transportation (punishing commutes) and other cost of living / quality of life issues.
    The migration or CA residents to states like Arizona and Texas is one of the key reasons why those states are now competitive.
    There will be a lot of very peeved-off Texans, if the incoming Californians bring their failed Californian politics - which they moved to get away from - with them to the Lone Star State. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iajyvVaeFS4
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,923
    dixiedean said:

    Nigelb said:

    This is just stupid, especially when the support given to those told to self isolate is deeply inadequate.

    https://twitter.com/HSJEditor/status/1317496694808956928

    More than stupid. It's creepy. And counter productive as it will undermine confidence.
    Assume they are talking about England only as usual and conflating it with England = UK.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,983
    Lady G, are you primarily worried about the pandemic situation?

    This will pass. It did way back in 1918 and it will this time, it'll just take a little longer.

    If you ever want to drop me a private message and just get things off your chest, feel free.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,582
    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:
    Disgraceful. That’s going to play badly amongst swing voters. He’s toast.
    Is it though? And those are all Michigan voters there, the energy is still there for the Trump campaign in Michigan it seems and given he won the state last time he just needs to get his 2016 vote out for him again
    I knew you’d say that - which is why I had this post predrafted.

    You are obsessed with 2016. 2016 is over, gone, in the past. They are all in that picture Michigan voters who have made their minds up already. They are baked in. He needs to swing some from the Dem and undecided camp over. Even your beloved Trafalgar Group only has him 1 point up In Michigan - they overstated him by nearly 2 points in 2016. The rest have him deep underwater. You continually say you expect 2016 polling results to repeat. So on your own logic, unless Trafalgar have changed their model their model to improve accuracy (they haven’t changed it) he is, on your assumption that 2016 results repeat, probably losing even with Trafalgar.

    He has terrible marks even from Republicans on his Covid-19 response. Pictures like this on the TV will just reenforce those terrible optics. That, together with shots of him encouraging the crowd to shout “lock her up” about their own elected governor, whose only crime appears to have been to put in place stringent but popular lockdown measures, a rally will not do what it did last time. Whitmer is quite popular (51% favourable to 41% unfavourable in the last poll I saw) Clinton wasn’t at all popular. So encouraging those chats against, a popular governor in her own state, will have a negative effect In Michigan. It’s a different world, different priorities and a different candidate. Trump isn’t a fresh unknown anymore. Unlike 2016 there is a rampant deadly pandemic that has been worsened by these very rallies.

    Finally, I have permission to share this from my wife. My wife’s godparents are registered Republicans. The husband is a massive, enormous, Trump fan. The wife loathes Trump with a passion. She confided this to my mother-in-law (her best friend) on condition the husband must never find out. My mother-in-law told my wife though. So there are, anecdotally at least, “Shy Bidenites” as well.

    This may well Seal Trump’s defeat.
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    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,138
    malcolmg said:

    dixiedean said:

    Nigelb said:

    This is just stupid, especially when the support given to those told to self isolate is deeply inadequate.

    https://twitter.com/HSJEditor/status/1317496694808956928

    More than stupid. It's creepy. And counter productive as it will undermine confidence.
    Assume they are talking about England only as usual and conflating it with England = UK.
    Given the article is behind a paywall I can’t see where are they doing such a thing? Can you explain, with quotes from the article itself?
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    Betfair has 1.02 against Amy Coney Barrett's confirmation as a Supreme Court judge before the election. Fox News considers the likely schedule and concludes that:
    That’s why we believe the actual confirmation of Barrett won’t happen until the middle or end of the week of Oct. 25, likely Oct. 28-30.
    https://www.foxnews.com/politics/amy-coney-barrett-likely-confirmation-schedule-supreme-court
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,979
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    2nd Q with 3 minutes to play before halftime:

    George 17, Alabama 17

    2nd Q with 3 minutes to play before halftime:

    George 17, Alabama 17

    Sorry, read "Georgia"

    Incidentally, Crimson Tide Nick Saban, one of the winningest coaches in NCAA history, was approved to coach tonight's game after receiving 3 negative COVID tests following his positive test earlier this week. Sabin went into quarantine when he tested positive, and was released as per SEC protocol as soon as third negative was processed and confirmed.

    Halftime

    Georgia 24, Alabama 20

    Final ten seconds of 1st half was wild time; Alabama had the ball, got first down maybe 30 feet from goal line, and called for time out with 3 seconds left on clock. BUT officials screwed up, at first said clock had expired (Sabin was fit to be tide, and Bulldogs started leaving the field for their locker room.

    Then officials backtracked, said there was 1 second left. Bama kicker started to attempt field goal - then GA coach called time out, trying to ice the kicker. Who ended up belting out a kick that just made it inside the goal posts and adding final 3 points for Crimson Tide.
    Impressive efforts at aerosol generation.
    https://twitter.com/UA_Athletics/status/1317663529470668801
    Easy to see from that picture why US C19 rates are shooting up again.
    Compare and contrast with the eerie, but superb RL Challenge Cup final yesterday afternoon. One of the best games I've seen for ages and no-one in the ground to cheer.
    It's a shame, but it is safer.

    I did think that it might be possible for soccer and rugby to be played in front of crowds limited to 25% capacity but apparently that actually costs more than having an empty stadium.
    Non-League football is allowed 'crowds'. There was an unkind pub discussion about whether our local team could actually get up to the numbers allowed to attend!
    Well I have to say social distancing has not been a problem at Leyton Orient for a very long time.
    Even easier in county cricket.
    Depends who you watch; members areas at Essex are often quite full.
    I’ll take your word for it. I’ve never been to Chelmsford. My father was and he came back overflowing with nice words about how friendly everyone was and how well they’d looked after him. I gather they were so surprised a Gloucestershire supporter had travelled all the way over there they gave him free entry to the members’ enclosure!
    IIRC, that was the norm at one time.
    Free entry for Members of of the counties, I mean. We're always friendly to visitors in the Member stands.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,582
    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    It'll be interesting to see if Trump gets a slight swing in his favour in states like California, Oregon, Washington compared to 2016. I think he will in California. Not sure about the other two. Something odd is definitely going on in California at the moment, in the sense that the population has failed to increase for the first time since it became part of the United States.

    https://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/population-shrinks-in-california-still-most-populous-state/2355776/

    1. Re: possible West Coast swing to Trumpsky, we will see but do NOT bet on it. Mainly because (as polling shows here and elsewhere) he is tanking with suburban voters, who are THE key swing voters in these states. They've been swing away from GOP for decades, a process that Trumpsky has accelerated to something approaching warp speed.

    2. Re: California, success has caught up with the Golden State, like it did decades ago for New York, Pennsylvania, Michigan and Illinois.

    Note that following 2010 census, Golden State only gained 1 new seat in US House, compared to much larger gains in previous censuses.

    Why the fall from the days when "California Here I Come" was a national mantra? Largely because while there was robust international AND domestic migration into Cali, there was also an increasing outflow of people leaving for places like Arizona, Nevada, Oregon, Washington and Idaho due to housing (expensive), transportation (punishing commutes) and other cost of living / quality of life issues.
    The migration or CA residents to states like Arizona and Texas is one of the key reasons why those states are now competitive.
    There will be a lot of very peeved-off Texans, if the incoming Californians bring their failed Californian politics - which they moved to get away from - with them to the Lone Star State. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iajyvVaeFS4
    Tough.

    Actually a more likely reason for Texas trending blue will be the younger generation Hispanic vote. That will likely result in a lot of very peeved Republicans, too.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,979
    malcolmg said:

    DavidL said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Republicans in a Twitter rage over Hunter Biden story
    Social media once again finds itself at the centre of controversy over bias and disinformation"

    https://www.ft.com/content/0aa949e8-91ca-4cc3-b4fa-6af172bc9226

    Republicans banging on about Hunter Biden when the whole Trump clan has been at it for the past 4 years is the rankest projectionism. "SAD!"
    Trump and his gang are the most corrupt administration in my life time, gouging off the public purse at every opportunity, but that doesn't make the Hunter Biden story ok. Its yet another example of how poor the choice Americans have this time.
    Only just beat Johnson and his gang as well, UK is fast approaching banana republic status.
    Morning Malc! Banana monarchy, surely.
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    alex_ said:

    ydoethur said:

    I see the government has announced that the NHS track and trace app data will be shared with the police.

    Thereby guaranteeing nobody will use it.

    Are these people actually corrupt or just fucking stupid?

    Although, and presumably it won't make a difference as nobody understands how the app works, but the "track and trace data" is the scanning of QR codes to get into venues. It would equally apply to venues still asking for names and phone numbers on entry. And the way that the QR codes on the app work, you can basically check into the venue and immediately check out again. It's not the bluetooth notifications which are anonymous.
    If the government does not care about privacy then it could get more reliable data on who was where when from payment card companies.
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    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,138
    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:
    So really clear that those ruling us are a million miles from what we want

    Not sustainable

    Viva Le Republic de Mancunia
    On which subject here is Jen Williams' digest of the week.

    https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/melodrama-melancholy-madness-inside-greater-19122824

    "The discontent successfully exploited by the Conservatives during last year’s general election in areas like this didn’t vanish when the polls closed and it was certainly apparent this week.

    “It’s been slowly brewing for decades,” says one official of the resentment that has erupted in the past few days, a sentiment by no means unique to Greater Manchester.

    “Covid has really been the last straw.” "
    There are plenty of southerners on here who do not realise that we are heading towards a very divided country.

    Greater Manc population is almost the same as Wales with a much larger economy.

    We are not far from an anti-south party doing very very very well around here,
    Perhaps people do not see that because the same two parties as always continue to dominate as they have for 100 years. Sure, that doesn't mean they will continue to do so, but electorally where's the sign people are yearning for an anti-south party, or for one of the big ones to be more explicitly anti-south?

    Brexit.

    Definitely driven in part by resentment and anger from being left behind.
    "Red Wall" also. A rejection of a deeply Londoncentric Labour which failed to heed the north.
    From which the Tories, (not their new found Northern Mps), but the Johnson/Cummings clique, appear to be drawing all the wrong lessons.
    It is no different to the divide across many of the big Western nations now eg the ex industrial areas which voted for Trump or Le Pen v the wealthier knowledge economy areas which voted for Clinton or Macron, same as the divide between Brexit and Remain areas in the UK.

    If the Tories really ignored the North they would also have conceded to the EU on state aid and prevented the UK government giving state aid to industry in the North, that is not something I would be too bothered about for a trade deal with the EU but it is something Northern Leave voters would be bothered about
    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:
    So really clear that those ruling us are a million miles from what we want

    Not sustainable

    Viva Le Republic de Mancunia
    On which subject here is Jen Williams' digest of the week.

    https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/melodrama-melancholy-madness-inside-greater-19122824

    "The discontent successfully exploited by the Conservatives during last year’s general election in areas like this didn’t vanish when the polls closed and it was certainly apparent this week.

    “It’s been slowly brewing for decades,” says one official of the resentment that has erupted in the past few days, a sentiment by no means unique to Greater Manchester.

    “Covid has really been the last straw.” "
    There are plenty of southerners on here who do not realise that we are heading towards a very divided country.

    Greater Manc population is almost the same as Wales with a much larger economy.

    We are not far from an anti-south party doing very very very well around here,
    Perhaps people do not see that because the same two parties as always continue to dominate as they have for 100 years. Sure, that doesn't mean they will continue to do so, but electorally where's the sign people are yearning for an anti-south party, or for one of the big ones to be more explicitly anti-south?

    Brexit.

    Definitely driven in part by resentment and anger from being left behind.
    "Red Wall" also. A rejection of a deeply Londoncentric Labour which failed to heed the north.
    From which the Tories, (not their new found Northern Mps), but the Johnson/Cummings clique, appear to be drawing all the wrong lessons.
    It is no different to the divide across many of the big Western nations now eg the ex industrial areas which voted for Trump or Le Pen v the wealthier knowledge economy areas which voted for Clinton or Macron, same as the divide between Brexit and Remain areas in the UK.

    If the Tories really ignored the North they would also have conceded to the EU on state aid and prevented the UK government giving state aid to industry in the North, that is not something I would be too bothered about for a trade deal with the EU but it is something Northern Leave voters would be bothered about
    This isn’t about state aid it’s about regional lockdowns. People don’t care about Brexit to the exclusion of all else. If Greater Manchester is seen to be treated less favourably than the south no amount of gratitude for Brexit is going to save them. Or do you imagine grateful Northern types in 2024 who’ve lost their jobs, (world famous) clubs and pubs saying “I’m jobless and have nothing to do for leisure but I’m voting Tory in gratitude for a clean break from the EU!”.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,896

    IanB2 said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. Stocky, must agree that the intended good of enforcement will be far outweighed by people deleting the app and therefore decreasing its usefulness.

    I was never going to let an App force me to stay at home for two weeks in any case.

    It's one thing going to get a test and staying away from people until you get the result. It's another having some geek's algorithm make a criminal of you if you leave home during 14 days.
    I thought the whole point of the Google and Apple API was that it was anonymous?
    The anonymous bit is the Bluetooth proximity data from the Apple/Google API. The data that's shared with authorities is the check-in data from venues - mainly because fewer than 20% of people are isolating or getting tested, when told to by the Track and Trace team.
This discussion has been closed.