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Biden backers unruffled by the overnight VP debate – politicalbetting.com

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  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,691
    Massive BBC news! Journalist gets job! And ex-BBC!

    Lucky Claire Balding didn't stub her toe today as that might have caused this to be missed.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,166

    So another day of Government failure.

    What's their next bright idea to get the virus under control?

    Maybe it's not within the government's power to control the virus.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,503
    Andy_JS said:

    LadyG said:

    MaxPB said:

    17.5k cases reported.

    Christ. Lockdown Redux here we come
    Only problem is I think the places that currently have the most strict local lockdowns are registering the most new cases, whereas those without continue to have low numbers, (like Hereford where I happen to be at the moment).
    The rate is rising pretty briskly in Surrey, where we have no lockdown to speak of apart from the national rule of 6 (and any other national rules that I've forgotten about in the general chaos). My council was going to allow well-separated outdoor public events on council land but has now dropped the idea. We assume the second wave is coming in.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,401
    Biden campaign says next week’s debate should be pushed back after Trump refuses to appear virtually.

    NYTimes

    Hmm. Better for Biden to not have the debate surely? Nothing to gain and something to lose if it goes wrong.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,586

    HYUFD said:

    Allegra Stratton new Downing Street Press Secretary

    Ex Newsnight! Another example of the BBC being full of blinkin' lefties!
    And was with the Guardian at one time

    Sarah Sands, Robbie Gibb, Guto Hari, Allegra Stratton, Jeremy Paxman, John Humphreys, Nick Robinson ...

    We have been fed this propaganda about left-wing bias in the broadcast media for years, but all the evidence strongly indicates that if any party has a grip on newsrooms it's the Tories.

    I'll raise you Clarence Mitchell and BBC Radio Norfolk's Nick (keep your knickers on) Conrad.
    And what about Andrew Neil and Laura K?

    BBC DG Tim Davie is an exTory councillor too.
    Tim Davie is a nob end.

    He wants to persecute the grandchild of immigrants who did well academically (and in life generally.)

    Just imagine if people did the same to the working class kids.
    I am choking up just thinking about your predicament TSE.

    Personally, I'd ban Oxbridge graduates from all top government jobs - maybe allowing a few exceptions after 25 years or so. Given the way the country is run now it couldn't do any harm.
    Just ban Oxford graduates and employ Cambridge graduates, I mean just look at the number of Nobel laureates the University of Cambridge has compared to the dump.

    Best PM we never had, Ken Clarke of Gonville and Caius.
    You can also add Michael Portillo, Michael Howard and Rab Butler as Cambridge educated best PMs we never had, though on the other side we also had Cambridge educated Deputy PM Nick Clegg
    How's about some more prime ministers that didn't go to Oxford or Cambridge. Preferably one that's had a proper job that wasn't as a lawyer or in banking.
    How about the "Postie"?
    Callaghan, Churchill, Attlee, Lloyd-George. Although the latter two were solicitors. That's off the cuff.
    Major
  • Landlady in Scotland suggests the SNP stands for 'sorry no pubs'
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,255
    RobD said:
    Is there even a rapitest pillar 5 on the horizon? It's been spoken about a lot, but all the pillars are PCR or antibody. What is the there from here for the UK to get rapid response on superspreader events, as per The Atlantic article.

    Big push on QR code part of the app - get QR everywhere, and de-emphasise Bluetooth? So, Rapitest a (large enough) sample of a train carriage or shop based on QR times? Make the QR element compulsory if possible to enter shops (cf masks and the exceptions)? Can Google check ins and virtual QR bridge any gap?

    Which Rapitests and how quick to scale up? What role for pooled testing (good for classrooms?)? What does that look like?

    What can be turned around nationally in 2-3 weeks to get this started and start, start to turn the tide away from national lockdown?

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,268

    Landlady in Scotland suggests the SNP stands for 'sorry no pubs'

    Good, should hit the SNP vote at Holyrood next year
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947
    isam said:

    Both Sky, BBC and The Piers Moron Show are guilty of this, increasingly they invite people on with very extreme views and then claim balance. So you get the Churchill was nothing but a racist vs Churchill never did a single thing wrong shout-athon.

    We are seeing it now with COVID, we have the lockdown absolutists vs the likes of Gupta or Sikora getting an incredible amount of airtime.

    Yes. It means the boring problems in the middle - of making sure that people isolate when asked to do so, even if they don't have symptoms - are not receiving the attention that they need.

    It's incredibly frustrating that Gupta is still being treated as someone with any credibility when the predictions she made during the first wave have been so comprehensively contradicted by subsequent events.

    But the need for a fake balance comes before everything.
    Yes, it's fake balance but also because the media always look for the splashier story. A moderate opinion is seen as intrinsically less interesting. A lot of media analysis becomes clearer if one thinks of the media as primarily a branch of the entertainment industry.
    Well, maybe, but why is that so?

    It seems to come back to Rory Stewart's observation of a lack of seriousness. All the quibbling over minutiae during the Covid crisis is another sign.

    If we can't be a bit serious a bit of the time about politics and our governance, then that's it for democracy.
    Yes, everything is about zany, off the wall-ness. I used to love This Week, but it went too far down that road by the end. It's why I think the "Personality" factor is a big factor nowadays - I don't really think it should be, I just happen to think it is, mores the pity
    I agree. We must elevate or our democracy will wither away.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Biden campaign says next week’s debate should be pushed back after Trump refuses to appear virtually.

    NYTimes

    Hmm. Better for Biden to not have the debate surely? Nothing to gain and something to lose if it goes wrong.

    This is extending the story in the news cycle.
  • isam said:
    If it weren't for the Excel cock-up, the graphs would be almost identical.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,870
    HYUFD said:

    Landlady in Scotland suggests the SNP stands for 'sorry no pubs'

    Good, should hit the SNP vote at Holyrood next year
    But if the UK Tories are seen to have done at least as bad a job (and as Boris is less popular than the SNP and Sturgeon, that's a given), surely that cancels out any failures north of the border?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,268

    HYUFD said:

    Allegra Stratton new Downing Street Press Secretary

    Ex Newsnight! Another example of the BBC being full of blinkin' lefties!
    And was with the Guardian at one time

    Sarah Sands, Robbie Gibb, Guto Hari, Allegra Stratton, Jeremy Paxman, John Humphreys, Nick Robinson ...

    We have been fed this propaganda about left-wing bias in the broadcast media for years, but all the evidence strongly indicates that if any party has a grip on newsrooms it's the Tories.

    I'll raise you Clarence Mitchell and BBC Radio Norfolk's Nick (keep your knickers on) Conrad.
    And what about Andrew Neil and Laura K?

    BBC DG Tim Davie is an exTory councillor too.
    Tim Davie is a nob end.

    He wants to persecute the grandchild of immigrants who did well academically (and in life generally.)

    Just imagine if people did the same to the working class kids.
    I am choking up just thinking about your predicament TSE.

    Personally, I'd ban Oxbridge graduates from all top government jobs - maybe allowing a few exceptions after 25 years or so. Given the way the country is run now it couldn't do any harm.
    Just ban Oxford graduates and employ Cambridge graduates, I mean just look at the number of Nobel laureates the University of Cambridge has compared to the dump.

    Best PM we never had, Ken Clarke of Gonville and Caius.
    You can also add Michael Portillo, Michael Howard and Rab Butler as Cambridge educated best PMs we never had, though on the other side we also had Cambridge educated Deputy PM Nick Clegg
    How's about some more prime ministers that didn't go to Oxford or Cambridge. Preferably one that's had a proper job that wasn't as a lawyer or in banking.
    How about the "Postie"?
    Callaghan, Churchill, Attlee, Lloyd-George. Although the latter two were solicitors. That's off the cuff.
    Major
    Major yes and Callaghan and Lloyd-George and Brown.

    Attlee went to Oxford though so was no different to the usual PM pathway and although Churchill did not go to Oxbridge he did go to Harrow and Sandhurst so had an establishment background anyway
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221
    Exactly the same happened to me this morning
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,401
    Biden, Harris and Pence are all visiting Arizona today
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513
    DavidL said:

    FF43 said:

    isam said:
    Actually not far off Whitty. His example was doubling every 7 days - I make it every 9 days from your second chart. What the chart does show, which was the point Whitty was making, is that those relatively small differences in exponential growth can add up to a big difference in the number of cases by a particular date.
    The acceleration in the number of cases has been sharper than I expected, even allowing for University students. I seriously doubt if we can keep Universities and schools operating any kind of normal and have an R rates of under 1, even if we shut every pub in the country.
    I don't think the US experience of reopening universities was vastly different.
    Mixing large numbers of people from all parts of the country and getting them to live and/or work together all at once is pretty well guaranteed to spread any existing infection.
    Without mass testing at reopened universities, it's almost guaranteed. And testing post symptom onset is simply too late.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,503



    Yes, it's fake balance but also because the media always look for the splashier story. A moderate opinion is seen as intrinsically less interesting. A lot of media analysis becomes clearer if one thinks of the media as primarily a branch of the entertainment industry.

    Well, maybe, but why is that so?

    It seems to come back to Rory Stewart's observation of a lack of seriousness. All the quibbling over minutiae during the Covid crisis is another sign.

    If we can't be a bit serious a bit of the time about politics and our governance, then that's it for democracy.
    Yes, I agree. But it does come back to us. If we collectively gravitate to clickbait stories about "Shock new COVID theory" and away from "Details of COVID guidance", if we vote for people because they're funny and scatter-brained over people with boringly focused minds, then, well, evolution will deliver us the Daily Mail and Donald Trump.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,870
    edited October 2020
    Andy_JS said:

    So another day of Government failure.

    What's their next bright idea to get the virus under control?

    Maybe it's not within the government's power to control the virus.
    Your solution is to not even try then? Has any nation on Earth done that? (No, not bloody Sweden even).
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    HYUFD said:

    Landlady in Scotland suggests the SNP stands for 'sorry no pubs'

    Good, should hit the SNP vote at Holyrood next year
    It really won't, because the conservatives are doing exactly the same here.

  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947
    edited October 2020
    Nigelb said:

    ClippP said:

    Nigelb said:

    Iowa looking increasingly like a Senate pickup for the Democrats.
    https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/520170-greenfield-raises-287-million-for-iowa-senate-bid

    I wonder how much of that might be due to Mayor Pete and the way he raised the Democrat profile in the state? As did Beto in Texas, of course.
    Well the Democrats' most significant political mistake over the last decade was not putting enough effort into state politics, and they have begun to correct that.

    Meanwhile, I see Trump is displaying roid rage again.
    https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1314186938417655808
    Oh FFS. Can't we just skip to 3/11 then 20/1/21.
  • FF43 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    FF43 said:

    Grim numbers on the cases. If R is running at 1.6 or so, we need to cut our social interactions by a third. If schools, healthcare and essential workers are all protected that means hospitality and universities will need to shut down. It's so bad.

    Not feasible. The Great Barrington Declaration is the only way forward IMO.
    It isn't a way forward any more than it was in March when Gupta put forward similar ideas based on wildly incorrect epidemiology. It's a choice between "mental health impacts" of semi-lockdown and mass death. At which point semi-lockdown becomes distinctly feasible.

    And by the way, if we were a little bit more disciplined (like some other countries that are managing the epidemic pretty well), we wouldn't need to lockdown that much.
    Yes, to be fair to the government, they can't predict exactly how much piss the piss-takers are going to take with the restrictions.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Landlady in Scotland suggests the SNP stands for 'sorry no pubs'

    Good, should hit the SNP vote at Holyrood next year
    But if the UK Tories are seen to have done at least as bad a job (and as Boris is less popular than the SNP and Sturgeon, that's a given), surely that cancels out any failures north of the border?
    The Scottish Government Covid performance is nothing to write home about, but cases are running 30% less than in England per capita and are possibly not rising quite so fast.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,706
    Nigelb said:

    DavidL said:

    FF43 said:

    isam said:
    Actually not far off Whitty. His example was doubling every 7 days - I make it every 9 days from your second chart. What the chart does show, which was the point Whitty was making, is that those relatively small differences in exponential growth can add up to a big difference in the number of cases by a particular date.
    The acceleration in the number of cases has been sharper than I expected, even allowing for University students. I seriously doubt if we can keep Universities and schools operating any kind of normal and have an R rates of under 1, even if we shut every pub in the country.
    I don't think the US experience of reopening universities was vastly different.
    Mixing large numbers of people from all parts of the country and getting them to live and/or work together all at once is pretty well guaranteed to spread any existing infection.
    Without mass testing at reopened universities, it's almost guaranteed. And testing post symptom onset is simply too late.
    No, it was all too predictable, sadly. The scale of the increase has surprised me, however. 17,540 is a lot of new cases, even if we are now testing like crazy so that a comparison with the first wave is probably invalid.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    Given the numbers of students testing positive and presumably many more positives not being tested aren’t they all going to have had it in about 2-3 weeks? How many students in total at Newcastle University? They’re not going to have much time to spread it to the wider community.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,268

    HYUFD said:

    Landlady in Scotland suggests the SNP stands for 'sorry no pubs'

    Good, should hit the SNP vote at Holyrood next year
    It really won't, because the conservatives are doing exactly the same here.

    Not to the extent the SNP are and even if it just leads to SNP voters staying home not switching to the Tories or Labour or LDs that is still a net gain for Unionists
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    So another day of Government failure.

    What's their next bright idea to get the virus under control?

    The idea of the virus being under control is for me the wrong way to look at it.

    The virus is going to claim who it is going to claim, just as flu, pneumonia, cancer, heart disease etc are very sadly going to get who they are going to get.

    Disrupting the lives of healthy people to try to delay the inevitable isn;t just futile, it is completely counterproductive.

  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,255
    isam said:

    DavidL said:

    FF43 said:

    isam said:
    Actually not far off Whitty. His example was doubling every 7 days - I make it every 9 days from your second chart. What the chart does show, which was the point Whitty was making, is that those relatively small differences in exponential growth can add up to a big difference in the number of cases by a particular date.
    The acceleration in the number of cases has been sharper than I expected, even allowing for University students. I seriously doubt if we can keep Universities and schools operating any kind of normal and have an R rates of under 1, even if we shut every pub in the country.
    My girlfriend is due to resume her work in an East End 6th form in a few weeks, after maternity leave. Can't say I will be too displeased if that school gets locked down and I don't have to be a full time WFH Dad!
    The social element of 6th forms bears little resemblance to universities, tbf - maybe a KFC for lunch and a shared home beer over a CoD session. My son's is operating 3 day onsite weeks.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,922
    alex_ said:

    Given the numbers of students testing positive and presumably many more positives not being tested aren’t they all going to have had it in about 2-3 weeks? How many students in total at Newcastle University? They’re not going to have much time to spread it to the wider community.

    Fingers crossed... It would be great to have a section of the population that had broad immunity.
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Landlady in Scotland suggests the SNP stands for 'sorry no pubs'

    Good, should hit the SNP vote at Holyrood next year
    It really won't, because the conservatives are doing exactly the same here.

    Not to the extent the SNP are and even if it just leads to SNP voters staying home not switching to the Tories or Labour or LDs that is still a net gain for Unionists
    I see that you've moved on from clutching at the straw of George Galloway and Ruth forming a Unionist alliance and sweeping the Nats from power.
  • Nigelb said:

    DavidL said:

    FF43 said:

    isam said:
    Actually not far off Whitty. His example was doubling every 7 days - I make it every 9 days from your second chart. What the chart does show, which was the point Whitty was making, is that those relatively small differences in exponential growth can add up to a big difference in the number of cases by a particular date.
    The acceleration in the number of cases has been sharper than I expected, even allowing for University students. I seriously doubt if we can keep Universities and schools operating any kind of normal and have an R rates of under 1, even if we shut every pub in the country.
    I don't think the US experience of reopening universities was vastly different.
    Mixing large numbers of people from all parts of the country and getting them to live and/or work together all at once is pretty well guaranteed to spread any existing infection.
    Without mass testing at reopened universities, it's almost guaranteed. And testing post symptom onset is simply too late.
    What was the government thinking? It seems obvious that we should have held back in other risky areas (e.g. postponing the return to university, closing pubs) when re-opening schools, and then waited to see what happened before continuing to reopen. Instead we've had a gerbil-faced dash to normality which is inevitably crashing and burning as it hits reality.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Pro_Rata said:

    isam said:

    DavidL said:

    FF43 said:

    isam said:
    Actually not far off Whitty. His example was doubling every 7 days - I make it every 9 days from your second chart. What the chart does show, which was the point Whitty was making, is that those relatively small differences in exponential growth can add up to a big difference in the number of cases by a particular date.
    The acceleration in the number of cases has been sharper than I expected, even allowing for University students. I seriously doubt if we can keep Universities and schools operating any kind of normal and have an R rates of under 1, even if we shut every pub in the country.
    My girlfriend is due to resume her work in an East End 6th form in a few weeks, after maternity leave. Can't say I will be too displeased if that school gets locked down and I don't have to be a full time WFH Dad!
    The social element of 6th forms bears little resemblance to universities, tbf - maybe a KFC for lunch and a shared home beer over a CoD session. My son's is operating 3 day onsite weeks.
    No beers in this one!
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,922
    Of course, worth remembering that in no-lockdown Sweden, the Universities have not gone back. (Nor has any 16+ education.)
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,586
    I was thinking that Trump made a monumental error by pulling out of the 2nd debate, an error possibly induced by his thinking being unbalanced by Covid or the drugs he's taking...

    ...but then the thought occured to me: what if Covid has made it physically impossible for Trump to take part, i.e. if he is much iller than his campaign are letting on?
  • FeersumEnjineeyaFeersumEnjineeya Posts: 4,363
    edited October 2020

    So another day of Government failure.

    What's their next bright idea to get the virus under control?

    The idea of the virus being under control is for me the wrong way to look at it.

    The virus is going to claim who it is going to claim, just as flu, pneumonia, cancer, heart disease etc are very sadly going to get who they are going to get.

    Disrupting the lives of healthy people to try to delay the inevitable isn;t just futile, it is completely counterproductive.

    The enlightenment clearly passed you by.
  • I was thinking that Trump made a monumental error by pulling out of the 2nd debate, an error possibly induced by his thinking being unbalanced by Covid or the drugs he's taking...

    ...but then the thought occured to me: what if Covid has made it physically impossible for Trump to take part, i.e. if he is much iller than his campaign are letting on?

    I think that is very likely
  • It is funny to watch HYUFD's logic go out the window when it comes to Trump and the SNP
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,320
    Could this be about removing Trump if he refuses to concede?

    https://twitter.com/cbsnews/status/1314228201900703744?s=21
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    I was thinking that Trump made a monumental error by pulling out of the 2nd debate, an error possibly induced by his thinking being unbalanced by Covid or the drugs he's taking...

    ...but then the thought occured to me: what if Covid has made it physically impossible for Trump to take part, i.e. if he is much iller than his campaign are letting on?

    If Trump does a virtual debate he plays into the narrative that COVID disabled him more than he is letting on and its a really really dangerous thing.

    His whole stance is COVID should not deter people from living their lives.

    It was a giant elephant trap for him and he shrewdly avoided it.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,870
    Interesting events in Krygyztan I see, where protests at a rigged election had more success than in Belarus, but has now gotten messy.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-54458948

    A power vacuum is threatening to destabilise Kyrgyzstan, which is struggling to come up with legitimate ways of initiating a power transfer following the violent uprising over a disputed parliamentary election result. The euphoria felt after opposition groups seized the parliament building has quickly turned to uncertainty and insecurity.

    As the government appears to be demoralised by past events, mob rule is spreading across the country. People are storming into government offices and appointing their leaders to positions of chairperson, mayor or minister.

    However, these self-declared "appointments" can quickly be overruled by another, bigger mob. This is what happened to the leader of the Bir Bol party Almambet Shykmamatov, who declared himself the new prosecutor-general only to give up the job to a representative of another party who showed up at the office building with a few hundred people
  • rural_voterrural_voter Posts: 2,038

    So another day of Government failure.

    What's their next bright idea to get the virus under control?

    The idea of the virus being under control is for me the wrong way to look at it.

    The virus is going to claim who it is going to claim, just as flu, pneumonia, cancer, heart disease etc are very sadly going to get who they are going to get.

    Disrupting the lives of healthy people to try to delay the inevitable isn;t just futile, it is completely counterproductive.

    We can get herd immunity uniformly and randomly, as we're doing, or as far as possible via risk segmentation. Using the second method, fewer people die.

    We wasted the important period late April to early September when the younger and healthier could have been, er, socialising in the sun on Brighton beach or Hampstead Heath. Sunshine and exercise boost the immune system and make COVID (even) less severe in that group.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208

    FF43 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    FF43 said:

    Grim numbers on the cases. If R is running at 1.6 or so, we need to cut our social interactions by a third. If schools, healthcare and essential workers are all protected that means hospitality and universities will need to shut down. It's so bad.

    Not feasible. The Great Barrington Declaration is the only way forward IMO.
    It isn't a way forward any more than it was in March when Gupta put forward similar ideas based on wildly incorrect epidemiology. It's a choice between "mental health impacts" of semi-lockdown and mass death. At which point semi-lockdown becomes distinctly feasible.

    And by the way, if we were a little bit more disciplined (like some other countries that are managing the epidemic pretty well), we wouldn't need to lockdown that much.
    Yes, to be fair to the government, they can't predict exactly how much piss the piss-takers are going to take with the restrictions.
    Unfortunately so. I don't think governments can effectively restrict home based interactions any further. Which is why hospitality bears the brunt. It is something they can control.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    Could this be about removing Trump if he refuses to concede?

    https://twitter.com/cbsnews/status/1314228201900703744?s=21

    Or Biden? so they can get their favoured candidate Harris in earlier?
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221
    Didn't realise France has it even worse than us

    https://twitter.com/afneil/status/1314226891210084354?s=20
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513
    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    ClippP said:

    Nigelb said:

    Iowa looking increasingly like a Senate pickup for the Democrats.
    https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/520170-greenfield-raises-287-million-for-iowa-senate-bid

    I wonder how much of that might be due to Mayor Pete and the way he raised the Democrat profile in the state? As did Beto in Texas, of course.
    Well the Democrats' most significant political mistake over the last decade was not putting enough effort into state politics, and they have begun to correct that.

    Meanwhile, I see Trump is displaying roid rage again.
    https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1314186938417655808
    Oh FFS. Can't we just skip to 3/11 then 20/1/21.
    She's a communist !
    https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1314182554015199234
  • MattWMattW Posts: 22,703
    edited October 2020

    Mr. Eagles, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Komodo_dragon

    I see I now have to educate you on the animal kingdom as well as history. You should be paying me for this tutelage.

    That's not a real dragon, it's a lizard.
    Real Dragons *are * lizards.

    There is even a Lizard which shares a name with Smaug from the Hobbit, called Smaug Giganteus.

    Not a lizard?

    PFFFFT !
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,427
    edited October 2020
    alex_ said:

    Given the numbers of students testing positive and presumably many more positives not being tested aren’t they all going to have had it in about 2-3 weeks? How many students in total at Newcastle University? They’re not going to have much time to spread it to the wider community.

    There’s roughly 24,000 students at Newcastle University and 27,000 at Northumbria University.

    So at least 50,000 students in Newcastle/Gateshead, not counting Newcastle College.

    1,600 COVID positive this week, perhaps 1,000 last week. Not that many.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947

    I was thinking that Trump made a monumental error by pulling out of the 2nd debate, an error possibly induced by his thinking being unbalanced by Covid or the drugs he's taking...

    ...but then the thought occured to me: what if Covid has made it physically impossible for Trump to take part, i.e. if he is much iller than his campaign are letting on?

    Maybe. But he sounds ok. Where "ok" = well you know what I mean.
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Landlady in Scotland suggests the SNP stands for 'sorry no pubs'

    Good, should hit the SNP vote at Holyrood next year
    It really won't, because the conservatives are doing exactly the same here.

    Not to the extent the SNP are and even if it just leads to SNP voters staying home not switching to the Tories or Labour or LDs that is still a net gain for Unionists
    I see that you've moved on from clutching at the straw of George Galloway and Ruth forming a Unionist alliance and sweeping the Nats from power.
    You may mock, but there is every chance that one day the house of cards that is Scottish Nationalism will collapse. The Little Englanders are beginning to get their comeuppance with the Brexit debacle, the Little Americans look like Trump is falling apart. It can't be long before the Little Scotlanders and their own brand of hypocrisy, division and nastiness gets a taste of just desserts too.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,360
    edited October 2020
    Cyclefree said:



    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:
    They will not be able to force anyone to do anything.
    "They won't have the power to take enforcement action. If there are particularly egregious examples, they would need to escalate that to the police."
    They can inform the police on those not wearing facemasks, not social distancing etc so the police can then fine them.

    The police cannot be everywhere at once
    Here we go again.The police cannot enforce laws which don’t exist and there are no laws requiring you to be 2 metres away from anyone else. Guidelines are not laws and you cannot be fined for ignoring them. Nor do the police (let alone Covid Marshalls) have the right to go into your home to see how many people are there with you.

    The Metropolitan Police are, once again, misleading Londoners about the law. I know we have a government which has a disregard for the law but we do not - yet - live in a lawless society where the police can just do what the hell they like.
    There are no laws imposing social distancing, but there is the famous law against 'mingling' in particular narrowly defined circumstances in the notorious, fatuous and unreadable Section 5 of the HP (CR) (N0.2) (England) Regulations 2020 at 5(2B)(b)(ii). It would be fun to have a test case on what it means.

    https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/684/regulation/5

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,870
    edited October 2020
    LadyG said:

    Didn't realise France has it even worse than us

    https://twitter.com/afneil/status/1314226891210084354?s=20

    Presumably just running a few days ahead? It's definitely not far off the top rung of poor performers along with us and Spain though. And all without Boris and Dido.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,269
    HYUFD said:

    Cyclefree said:



    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:
    They will not be able to force anyone to do anything.
    "They won't have the power to take enforcement action. If there are particularly egregious examples, they would need to escalate that to the police."
    They can inform the police on those not wearing facemasks, not social distancing etc so the police can then fine them.

    The police cannot be everywhere at once
    Here we go again.The police cannot enforce laws which don’t exist and there are no laws requiring you to be 2 metres away from anyone else. Guidelines are not laws and you cannot be fined for ignoring them. Nor do the police (let alone Covid Marshalls) have the right to go into your home to see how many people are there with you.

    The Metropolitan Police are, once again, misleading Londoners about the law. I know we have a government which has a disregard for the law but we do not - yet - live in a lawless society where the police can just do what the hell they like.
    Government Regulations came into force in late September actually giving the police the legal power to impose fines for failing to quarantine, wear facemasks where required to or breaching the rule of 6

    https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-what-lockdown-breaches-can-you-be-fined-for-12077642
    Read my email. There are no laws requiring you to be 2 metres apart or to wash your hands and yet the Metropolitan Police are misleading the public by claiming that there are and that they will “enforce” such laws. Nor do they have the power to enter someone’s home to enforce the Rule of 6.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,586
    LadyG said:

    Didn't realise France has it even worse than us

    https://twitter.com/afneil/status/1314226891210084354?s=20

    They were into wave 2 a few weeks before us as I recall.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947

    Could this be about removing Trump if he refuses to concede?

    https://twitter.com/cbsnews/status/1314228201900703744?s=21

    My mental image of him leaving has always involved an injection and a stretcher.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,360
    Cyclefree said:

    HYUFD said:

    Cyclefree said:



    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:
    They will not be able to force anyone to do anything.
    "They won't have the power to take enforcement action. If there are particularly egregious examples, they would need to escalate that to the police."
    They can inform the police on those not wearing facemasks, not social distancing etc so the police can then fine them.

    The police cannot be everywhere at once
    Here we go again.The police cannot enforce laws which don’t exist and there are no laws requiring you to be 2 metres away from anyone else. Guidelines are not laws and you cannot be fined for ignoring them. Nor do the police (let alone Covid Marshalls) have the right to go into your home to see how many people are there with you.

    The Metropolitan Police are, once again, misleading Londoners about the law. I know we have a government which has a disregard for the law but we do not - yet - live in a lawless society where the police can just do what the hell they like.
    Government Regulations came into force in late September actually giving the police the legal power to impose fines for failing to quarantine, wear facemasks where required to or breaching the rule of 6

    https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-what-lockdown-breaches-can-you-be-fined-for-12077642
    Read my email. There are no laws requiring you to be 2 metres apart or to wash your hands and yet the Metropolitan Police are misleading the public by claiming that there are and that they will “enforce” such laws. Nor do they have the power to enter someone’s home to enforce the Rule of 6.
    Spot on

  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221
    kle4 said:

    LadyG said:

    Didn't realise France has it even worse than us

    https://twitter.com/afneil/status/1314226891210084354?s=20

    Presumably just running a few days ahead? It's definitely not far off the top rung of poor performers along with us and Spain though. And all without Boris and Dido.
    Holland, Belgium, Spain, UK, France are the front runners.

    Worth noting that it is creeping up again in Italy as well, and maybe even Germany
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,639

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Landlady in Scotland suggests the SNP stands for 'sorry no pubs'

    Good, should hit the SNP vote at Holyrood next year
    It really won't, because the conservatives are doing exactly the same here.

    Not to the extent the SNP are and even if it just leads to SNP voters staying home not switching to the Tories or Labour or LDs that is still a net gain for Unionists
    I see that you've moved on from clutching at the straw of George Galloway and Ruth forming a Unionist alliance and sweeping the Nats from power.
    You may mock, but there is every chance that one day the house of cards that is Scottish Nationalism will collapse. The Little Englanders are beginning to get their comeuppance with the Brexit debacle, the Little Americans look like Trump is falling apart. It can't be long before the Little Scotlanders and their own brand of hypocrisy, division and nastiness gets a taste of just desserts too.
    You're confusing what the Spanish call independistas and nacionalistas.

    Mind, we are seeing Mr Ross criticise the English Tories. Last I heard, he wanted to adopt the SNP's policies on student funding.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,706
    edited October 2020
    My son got some guidance on how the Scottish exams that are going ahead are going to operate today. They are going to be a bit later, there is going to be more choice (since schools by now have done different parts of the curriculum) and fewer questions will have to be answered. The details vary from subject to subject but this seems the general plan.

    The object here is to give sufficient flexibility so that if schools do have to be closed/entirely virtual for a couple of weeks the exams are still doable. It's frustrating but whilst the 2021 results will have an asterisk against them it does appear that for the more serious exams that asterisk is going to be smaller than the one against the "results" in 2020.

    Another challenge coming down the path is that for many kids in 2022 their Highers, which will determine their future prospects, might be the first externally assessed exams that they have ever sat.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,597
    edited October 2020
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Did she look in the app? The notification may be gone but the warning should still be in the app itself.
    No it's a glitch in the world beating app.

    Some users of the new NHS contact-tracing app have received notifications saying they'd been near someone with coronavirus, only to discover the alerts were system checks sent by Google and Apple.

    People who downloaded the COVID-19 app in England and Wales told Sky News they had received a notification which said: "Someone you were near reported having COVID-19."

    Yet, when they clicked on the message, they found no information explaining whether they should self-isolate.

    The Department of Health and Social Care said the notification was a "default message" sent by Google and Apple - the makers of the app's technology - and should be ignored.

    But the false alarms - which appeared to be only in England and Wales, despite the widespread use of contact tracing technology in countries across the world - had already caused confusion, forcing at least one user into avoidable self-isolation.


    https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-some-users-of-nhs-tracing-app-incorrectly-given-covid-19-exposure-alerts-12086225
    Thanks. Hopefully it gets ironed out soon then. The lack of information in the app suggests it can be ignored, but who knows?
    That suggests this is an Android/Google problem rather than the App itself.

    Someone I know got caught out and thought they had to isolate for a day or so until they found out it was just a test message. Doh!
  • Selebian said:

    DavidL said:

    Selebian said:

    Warwick University being the University of Coventry, right?


    Two different Uni's. Coventry, as one might expect is a bit more techie than Warwick.
    Oh I wasn’t talking about Coventry University. I was merely making a hilarious point about how Warwick University is in Coventry and not in Warwick.
    Sorry; missed! However it's just outside actually, although the post code is Coventry. It's in WarwickSHIRE, of course.
    Some of the campus is in Warwickshire, most of it is actually in Coventry. ;)


    I was one of the select few (among those living in uni halls) to be living in Warwickshire. Unfortunately, the Warwickshire halls were among the scraggiest on campus :disappointed:

    On my open day visit, well before sat-navs, my father mistakenly turned off at the signs for Warwick, which, needless to say is quite some distance away.
    Did you enjoy your time there? It is on my son's list. We intended to go this summer for the Open Day but that was all cancelled unfortunately. The virtual day didn't tell us much about what it was like to live there. He wants to do PPE with an emphasis on the E where Warwick is clearly very strong.
    @DavidL

    I did. I liked having a campus university and there was a nice mix of people. The 60s bits of campus are objectively ugly but have a lot of charm; the students union building was the best I've seen, though I think the campus has changed a lot since then. Campus accommodation nice and social - generally flats of 10-20 or so with shared facilities, so you get to meet a range of people, within larger buildings so you have more options if the people in your flat don't suit. Off campus after first year in either Coventry or Leamington Spa for most people. No idea about PPE, but I knew some people doing MORSE (same E, with maths, operational research and statistics) who were all very smart and went on to good jobs in consultancy or government. Might be out of date though as this is all a couple of decades ago...

    Mine was Physics and I chose it over an offer at Oxford, for what that's worth - through the interview process and open day I was more impressed by Warwick (I realise now that having an Oxford degree might have opened some more doors, but no regrets). Oxford didn't really try and sell themselves to me, I guess in general they have no need to do so!
    A mate's boy picked up an economics degree from Warwick a couple of years back. He turned down a job offer from the Treasury and joined a City firm for three times as much (whether the Civil Service is underpaying people is perhaps a discussion for another day but the Warwick scarf did not harm his prospects).
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    Nigelb said:

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    ClippP said:

    Nigelb said:

    Iowa looking increasingly like a Senate pickup for the Democrats.
    https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/520170-greenfield-raises-287-million-for-iowa-senate-bid

    I wonder how much of that might be due to Mayor Pete and the way he raised the Democrat profile in the state? As did Beto in Texas, of course.
    Well the Democrats' most significant political mistake over the last decade was not putting enough effort into state politics, and they have begun to correct that.

    Meanwhile, I see Trump is displaying roid rage again.
    https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1314186938417655808
    Oh FFS. Can't we just skip to 3/11 then 20/1/21.
    She's a communist !
    https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1314182554015199234
    Perhaps the Trump campaign is picking up on the notion Harris had an absolute stinker last night and are holding up the prospect of a quick shift of power to voters.
  • kle4 said:

    LadyG said:

    Didn't realise France has it even worse than us

    https://twitter.com/afneil/status/1314226891210084354?s=20

    Presumably just running a few days ahead? It's definitely not far off the top rung of poor performers along with us and Spain though. And all without Boris and Dido.
    Can we export them both to France and see whether they make it worse or better? My bet might be on the former
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,314

    So another day of Government failure.

    What's their next bright idea to get the virus under control?

    The idea of the virus being under control is for me the wrong way to look at it.

    The virus is going to claim who it is going to claim, just as flu, pneumonia, cancer, heart disease etc are very sadly going to get who they are going to get.

    Disrupting the lives of healthy people to try to delay the inevitable isn;t just futile, it is completely counterproductive.

    We can get herd immunity uniformly and randomly, as we're doing, or as far as possible via risk segmentation. Using the second method, fewer people die.

    We wasted the important period late April to early September when the younger and healthier could have been, er, socialising in the sun on Brighton beach or Hampstead Heath. Sunshine and exercise boost the immune system and make COVID (even) less severe in that group.
    The younger and healthier were socialising on Brighton beach in vast numbers (usually socially distanced) between April and September, as it happens. More than normal in fact in May, June and September, as so many were neither working nor studying.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,586

    LadyG said:

    Didn't realise France has it even worse than us

    https://twitter.com/afneil/status/1314226891210084354?s=20

    They were into wave 2 a few weeks before us as I recall.
    Edit: Checking Worldometers, the 7 day m.a. of new cases when above 1,000 at the beginning of August in France, 22 August in the UK. So we're 3 weeks behind - pretty much as we were in wave 1. Spooky, eh?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,268
    Cyclefree said:

    HYUFD said:

    Cyclefree said:



    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:
    They will not be able to force anyone to do anything.
    "They won't have the power to take enforcement action. If there are particularly egregious examples, they would need to escalate that to the police."
    They can inform the police on those not wearing facemasks, not social distancing etc so the police can then fine them.

    The police cannot be everywhere at once
    Here we go again.The police cannot enforce laws which don’t exist and there are no laws requiring you to be 2 metres away from anyone else. Guidelines are not laws and you cannot be fined for ignoring them. Nor do the police (let alone Covid Marshalls) have the right to go into your home to see how many people are there with you.

    The Metropolitan Police are, once again, misleading Londoners about the law. I know we have a government which has a disregard for the law but we do not - yet - live in a lawless society where the police can just do what the hell they like.
    Government Regulations came into force in late September actually giving the police the legal power to impose fines for failing to quarantine, wear facemasks where required to or breaching the rule of 6

    https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-what-lockdown-breaches-can-you-be-fined-for-12077642
    Read my email. There are no laws requiring you to be 2 metres apart or to wash your hands and yet the Metropolitan Police are misleading the public by claiming that there are and that they will “enforce” such laws. Nor do they have the power to enter someone’s home to enforce the Rule of 6.
    The police can fine you for being in a group of more than 6 outside and if you are holding a house party inside can fine you for that too, the police can also fine you for not wearing a facemask on public transport, in shops, in cinemas, takeaways etc.

    Those are ample powers enough and are being used

    https://twitter.com/standardnews/status/1314173968430006272?s=20

    https://twitter.com/live_coventry/status/1314241285939703808?s=20
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,691
    Cyclefree said:

    HYUFD said:

    Cyclefree said:



    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:
    They will not be able to force anyone to do anything.
    "They won't have the power to take enforcement action. If there are particularly egregious examples, they would need to escalate that to the police."
    They can inform the police on those not wearing facemasks, not social distancing etc so the police can then fine them.

    The police cannot be everywhere at once
    Here we go again.The police cannot enforce laws which don’t exist and there are no laws requiring you to be 2 metres away from anyone else. Guidelines are not laws and you cannot be fined for ignoring them. Nor do the police (let alone Covid Marshalls) have the right to go into your home to see how many people are there with you.

    The Metropolitan Police are, once again, misleading Londoners about the law. I know we have a government which has a disregard for the law but we do not - yet - live in a lawless society where the police can just do what the hell they like.
    Government Regulations came into force in late September actually giving the police the legal power to impose fines for failing to quarantine, wear facemasks where required to or breaching the rule of 6

    https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-what-lockdown-breaches-can-you-be-fined-for-12077642
    Read my email. There are no laws requiring you to be 2 metres apart or to wash your hands and yet the Metropolitan Police are misleading the public by claiming that there are and that they will “enforce” such laws. Nor do they have the power to enter someone’s home to enforce the Rule of 6.
    I quite like the Metropolitan Police. If they say something then mostly that's fine for me, at least in the short term.

    Trying to be picky about whether the police have got it quite right strikes me as unpleasant, and not the mindset of a law-abiding person.

  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,269
    algarkirk said:

    Cyclefree said:



    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:
    They will not be able to force anyone to do anything.
    "They won't have the power to take enforcement action. If there are particularly egregious examples, they would need to escalate that to the police."
    They can inform the police on those not wearing facemasks, not social distancing etc so the police can then fine them.

    The police cannot be everywhere at once
    Here we go again.The police cannot enforce laws which don’t exist and there are no laws requiring you to be 2 metres away from anyone else. Guidelines are not laws and you cannot be fined for ignoring them. Nor do the police (let alone Covid Marshalls) have the right to go into your home to see how many people are there with you.

    The Metropolitan Police are, once again, misleading Londoners about the law. I know we have a government which has a disregard for the law but we do not - yet - live in a lawless society where the police can just do what the hell they like.
    There are no laws imposing social distancing, but there is the famous law against 'mingling' in particular narrowly defined circumstances in the notorious, fatuous and unreadable Section 5 of the HP (CR) (N0.2) (England) Regulations 2020 at 5(2B)(b)(ii). It would be fun to have a test case on what it means.

    https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/684/regulation/5

    God yes. What a pile of garbage that is.
  • NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,375
    FF43 said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Landlady in Scotland suggests the SNP stands for 'sorry no pubs'

    Good, should hit the SNP vote at Holyrood next year
    But if the UK Tories are seen to have done at least as bad a job (and as Boris is less popular than the SNP and Sturgeon, that's a given), surely that cancels out any failures north of the border?
    The Scottish Government Covid performance is nothing to write home about, but cases are running 30% less than in England per capita and are possibly not rising quite so fast.
    Compare Scotland to the South of England which still has the lowest infection rates in Europe
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    edited October 2020
    rcs1000 said:

    Of course, worth remembering that in no-lockdown Sweden, the Universities have not gone back. (Nor has any 16+ education.)

    I have seen this statement made a number of times on pb.com.

    Is this true? Link, please.

    https://www.thelocal.se/20200529/is-sweden-about-to-reopen-its-universities-and-schools-for-over-16s

    My understanding is that it is like the UK/Ireland -- students are on the campus, but almost all teaching activities are online.

    https://www.lunduniversity.lu.se/about-lund-university/universitys-handling-coronavirus

    Lund University seems to have been open since 15 June 2020, although most activities are remote. But the sudents are there.

    https://www.lunduniversity.lu.se/student-life/you-arrive/coronavirus-covid-19-faqs/coronavirus-faq-incoming-exchange-students
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,586

    FF43 said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Landlady in Scotland suggests the SNP stands for 'sorry no pubs'

    Good, should hit the SNP vote at Holyrood next year
    But if the UK Tories are seen to have done at least as bad a job (and as Boris is less popular than the SNP and Sturgeon, that's a given), surely that cancels out any failures north of the border?
    The Scottish Government Covid performance is nothing to write home about, but cases are running 30% less than in England per capita and are possibly not rising quite so fast.
    Compare Scotland to the South of England which still has the lowest infection rates in Europe
    Presumably you mean the 'South of England exc. London'?

    Is that really true, though? Do you have a link?
  • Omnium said:

    Cyclefree said:

    HYUFD said:

    Cyclefree said:



    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:
    They will not be able to force anyone to do anything.
    "They won't have the power to take enforcement action. If there are particularly egregious examples, they would need to escalate that to the police."
    They can inform the police on those not wearing facemasks, not social distancing etc so the police can then fine them.

    The police cannot be everywhere at once
    Here we go again.The police cannot enforce laws which don’t exist and there are no laws requiring you to be 2 metres away from anyone else. Guidelines are not laws and you cannot be fined for ignoring them. Nor do the police (let alone Covid Marshalls) have the right to go into your home to see how many people are there with you.

    The Metropolitan Police are, once again, misleading Londoners about the law. I know we have a government which has a disregard for the law but we do not - yet - live in a lawless society where the police can just do what the hell they like.
    Government Regulations came into force in late September actually giving the police the legal power to impose fines for failing to quarantine, wear facemasks where required to or breaching the rule of 6

    https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-what-lockdown-breaches-can-you-be-fined-for-12077642
    Read my email. There are no laws requiring you to be 2 metres apart or to wash your hands and yet the Metropolitan Police are misleading the public by claiming that there are and that they will “enforce” such laws. Nor do they have the power to enter someone’s home to enforce the Rule of 6.
    I quite like the Metropolitan Police. If they say something then mostly that's fine for me, at least in the short term.

    Trying to be picky about whether the police have got it quite right strikes me as unpleasant, and not the mindset of a law-abiding person.

    Your position sounds like the mindset of the supremely gullible. It is important that lawyers (such as Cyclefree) remind all of us what the police are allowed to do and what they are not. Britain is meant to be a society based on the rule of law (yes includes you Mr Johnson). If the police are unchecked in mission creep it is the first steps to a police state.
  • DavidL said:

    Both Sky, BBC and The Piers Moron Show are guilty of this, increasingly they invite people on with very extreme views and then claim balance. So you get the Churchill was nothing but a racist vs Churchill never did a single thing wrong shout-athon.

    We are seeing it now with COVID, we have the lockdown absolutists vs the likes of Gupta or Sikora getting an incredible amount of airtime.

    Yes. It means the boring problems in the middle - of making sure that people isolate when asked to do so, even if they don't have symptoms - are not receiving the attention that they need.

    It's incredibly frustrating that Gupta is still being treated as someone with any credibility when the predictions she made during the first wave have been so comprehensively contradicted by subsequent events.

    But the need for a fake balance comes before everything.
    Yes, it's fake balance but also because the media always look for the splashier story. A moderate opinion is seen as intrinsically less interesting. A lot of media analysis becomes clearer if one thinks of the media as primarily a branch of the entertainment industry.
    Well, maybe, but why is that so?

    It seems to come back to Rory Stewart's observation of a lack of seriousness. All the quibbling over minutiae during the Covid crisis is another sign.

    If we can't be a bit serious a bit of the time about politics and our governance, then that's it for democracy.
    I miss Rory. We need people like him in Parliament.
    Old Etonians? Oxford PPE graduates? Spies?
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    LadyG said:

    Didn't realise France has it even worse than us

    https://twitter.com/afneil/status/1314226891210084354?s=20

    They were into wave 2 a few weeks before us as I recall.
    Second wave of what?

    France had 80 deaths yesterday and its moving average is still under 100.

    Its perfectly possible to have elevated case numbers and not have your hospitals 'overwhelmed' or even 'whelmed'
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947
    Nigelb said:

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    ClippP said:

    Nigelb said:

    Iowa looking increasingly like a Senate pickup for the Democrats.
    https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/520170-greenfield-raises-287-million-for-iowa-senate-bid

    I wonder how much of that might be due to Mayor Pete and the way he raised the Democrat profile in the state? As did Beto in Texas, of course.
    Well the Democrats' most significant political mistake over the last decade was not putting enough effort into state politics, and they have begun to correct that.

    Meanwhile, I see Trump is displaying roid rage again.
    https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1314186938417655808
    Oh FFS. Can't we just skip to 3/11 then 20/1/21.
    She's a communist !
    https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1314182554015199234
    That is a classic "tell" of right wing nutterdom calling a centrist social democrat a commie. You hear that, you know you need to change the subject to the weather and then make tracks.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,870

    Nigelb said:

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    ClippP said:

    Nigelb said:

    Iowa looking increasingly like a Senate pickup for the Democrats.
    https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/520170-greenfield-raises-287-million-for-iowa-senate-bid

    I wonder how much of that might be due to Mayor Pete and the way he raised the Democrat profile in the state? As did Beto in Texas, of course.
    Well the Democrats' most significant political mistake over the last decade was not putting enough effort into state politics, and they have begun to correct that.

    Meanwhile, I see Trump is displaying roid rage again.
    https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1314186938417655808
    Oh FFS. Can't we just skip to 3/11 then 20/1/21.
    She's a communist !
    https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1314182554015199234
    Perhaps the Trump campaign is picking up on the notion Harris had an absolute stinker last night and are holding up the prospect of a quick shift of power to voters.
    They might not be picking up on that she's a stinker and more just assuming she is less popular than Biden, and playing on concerns about Biden's age regardless.
  • FF43 said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Landlady in Scotland suggests the SNP stands for 'sorry no pubs'

    Good, should hit the SNP vote at Holyrood next year
    But if the UK Tories are seen to have done at least as bad a job (and as Boris is less popular than the SNP and Sturgeon, that's a given), surely that cancels out any failures north of the border?
    The Scottish Government Covid performance is nothing to write home about, but cases are running 30% less than in England per capita and are possibly not rising quite so fast.
    Compare Scotland to the South of England which still has the lowest infection rates in Europe
    Really? You've compared the infection rates in South of England with those of every region of every country in Europe? Let's see your working then.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518

    alex_ said:

    Given the numbers of students testing positive and presumably many more positives not being tested aren’t they all going to have had it in about 2-3 weeks? How many students in total at Newcastle University? They’re not going to have much time to spread it to the wider community.

    There’s roughly 24,000 students at Newcastle University and 27,000 at Northumbria University.

    So at least 50,000 students in Newcastle/Gateshead, not counting Newcastle College.

    1,600 COVID positive this week, perhaps 1,000 last week. Not that many.
    1,600 Positive and tested
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    HYUFD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    HYUFD said:

    Cyclefree said:



    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:
    They will not be able to force anyone to do anything.
    "They won't have the power to take enforcement action. If there are particularly egregious examples, they would need to escalate that to the police."
    They can inform the police on those not wearing facemasks, not social distancing etc so the police can then fine them.

    The police cannot be everywhere at once
    Here we go again.The police cannot enforce laws which don’t exist and there are no laws requiring you to be 2 metres away from anyone else. Guidelines are not laws and you cannot be fined for ignoring them. Nor do the police (let alone Covid Marshalls) have the right to go into your home to see how many people are there with you.

    The Metropolitan Police are, once again, misleading Londoners about the law. I know we have a government which has a disregard for the law but we do not - yet - live in a lawless society where the police can just do what the hell they like.
    Government Regulations came into force in late September actually giving the police the legal power to impose fines for failing to quarantine, wear facemasks where required to or breaching the rule of 6

    https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-what-lockdown-breaches-can-you-be-fined-for-12077642
    Read my email. There are no laws requiring you to be 2 metres apart or to wash your hands and yet the Metropolitan Police are misleading the public by claiming that there are and that they will “enforce” such laws. Nor do they have the power to enter someone’s home to enforce the Rule of 6.
    The police can fine you for being in a group of more than 6 outside and if you are holding a house party inside can fine you for that too, the police can also fine you for not wearing a facemask on public transport, in shops, in cinemas, takeaways etc.

    Those are ample powers enough and are being used

    https://twitter.com/standardnews/status/1314173968430006272?s=20

    https://twitter.com/live_coventry/status/1314241285939703808?s=20
    These people are not subjects or vassals, they are voters.

    How do you think they are going to react when we do eventually get to have a say on all this bullsh8t??
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,870
    That's a lot of people to be involved in a mere stop.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,586
    edited October 2020
    I look forward to the Orange Idiot's denunciation of this coup attempt.

    This can only boost Biden further.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,870

    kle4 said:

    LadyG said:

    Didn't realise France has it even worse than us

    https://twitter.com/afneil/status/1314226891210084354?s=20

    Presumably just running a few days ahead? It's definitely not far off the top rung of poor performers along with us and Spain though. And all without Boris and Dido.
    Can we export them both to France and see whether they make it worse or better? My bet might be on the former
    No takers I imagine. But the point is people like them are clearly not the only problem.
  • I look forward to the Orange Idiot's denunciation of this coup attempt.

    This can only boost Biden further.
    I'm waiting for the hot takes from some that is great news for Trump's re-election chances.
  • Omnium said:

    Massive BBC news! Journalist gets job! And ex-BBC!

    Lucky Claire Balding didn't stub her toe today as that might have caused this to be missed.

    Funny how the Tories always recruit from the BBC, whilst complaining it is a sewer of leftist bile.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,586
    edited October 2020

    LadyG said:

    Didn't realise France has it even worse than us

    https://twitter.com/afneil/status/1314226891210084354?s=20

    They were into wave 2 a few weeks before us as I recall.
    Second wave of what?

    France had 80 deaths yesterday and its moving average is still under 100.

    Its perfectly possible to have elevated case numbers and not have your hospitals 'overwhelmed' or even 'whelmed'
    And yet Paris Hospitals have moved to emergency mode...

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2020/oct/08/coronavirus-live-news-brazil-cases-pass-5m-trump-calls-catching-covid-a-blessing-in-disguise?page=with:block-5f7f28388f08cd85729ac5a0#block-5f7f28388f08cd85729ac5a0

    Whether the hospitals are 'whelmed' or not an elevated number of cases is going to have an effect.
  • kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    ClippP said:

    Nigelb said:

    Iowa looking increasingly like a Senate pickup for the Democrats.
    https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/520170-greenfield-raises-287-million-for-iowa-senate-bid

    I wonder how much of that might be due to Mayor Pete and the way he raised the Democrat profile in the state? As did Beto in Texas, of course.
    Well the Democrats' most significant political mistake over the last decade was not putting enough effort into state politics, and they have begun to correct that.

    Meanwhile, I see Trump is displaying roid rage again.
    https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1314186938417655808
    Oh FFS. Can't we just skip to 3/11 then 20/1/21.
    She's a communist !
    https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1314182554015199234
    That is a classic "tell" of right wing nutterdom calling a centrist social democrat a commie. You hear that, you know you need to change the subject to the weather and then make tracks.
    Rather like when Corbynistas accuse people on their own side of being "Tories" or anyone of a slightly right of centre view of being "fascist". It is the ludicrous hyperbole of the political extremes. It demonstrates rank stupidity, but then we should expect it of Trump.
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221
    At least we're nearly half way through Autumn. We only have the rest of October and November to get through. Then December. And of course January. Then February, And I guess March, which can also be pretty cold wet and bleak.

    By mid April, or at the latest May, the sun will come out and this bit will be over.

    *stares at noose*
  • MattWMattW Posts: 22,703
    HYUFD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    HYUFD said:

    Cyclefree said:



    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:
    They will not be able to force anyone to do anything.
    "They won't have the power to take enforcement action. If there are particularly egregious examples, they would need to escalate that to the police."
    They can inform the police on those not wearing facemasks, not social distancing etc so the police can then fine them.

    The police cannot be everywhere at once
    Here we go again.The police cannot enforce laws which don’t exist and there are no laws requiring you to be 2 metres away from anyone else. Guidelines are not laws and you cannot be fined for ignoring them. Nor do the police (let alone Covid Marshalls) have the right to go into your home to see how many people are there with you.

    The Metropolitan Police are, once again, misleading Londoners about the law. I know we have a government which has a disregard for the law but we do not - yet - live in a lawless society where the police can just do what the hell they like.
    Government Regulations came into force in late September actually giving the police the legal power to impose fines for failing to quarantine, wear facemasks where required to or breaching the rule of 6

    https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-what-lockdown-breaches-can-you-be-fined-for-12077642
    Read my email. There are no laws requiring you to be 2 metres apart or to wash your hands and yet the Metropolitan Police are misleading the public by claiming that there are and that they will “enforce” such laws. Nor do they have the power to enter someone’s home to enforce the Rule of 6.
    The police can fine you for being in a group of more than 6 outside and if you are holding a house party inside can fine you for that too, the police can also fine you for not wearing a facemask on public transport, in shops, in cinemas, takeaways etc.

    Those are ample powers enough and are being used

    https://twitter.com/standardnews/status/1314173968430006272?s=20

    https://twitter.com/live_coventry/status/1314241285939703808?s=20
    It is notable how restrained our police have been.

    In the first lockdown UK police issued a tiny number of fines. Roughly 15000 between the start and late May.

    French police issued 1.1 million by the middle of May.
    https://www.euroweeklynews.com/2020/05/14/france-dishes-out-1-1-million-fines-during-lockdown-as-cannes-mayor-suggests-reinvesting-the-money-in-hospitals/

    IIRC the Spanish police numbers were even higher.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,870

    HYUFD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    HYUFD said:

    Cyclefree said:



    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:
    They will not be able to force anyone to do anything.
    "They won't have the power to take enforcement action. If there are particularly egregious examples, they would need to escalate that to the police."
    They can inform the police on those not wearing facemasks, not social distancing etc so the police can then fine them.

    The police cannot be everywhere at once
    Here we go again.The police cannot enforce laws which don’t exist and there are no laws requiring you to be 2 metres away from anyone else. Guidelines are not laws and you cannot be fined for ignoring them. Nor do the police (let alone Covid Marshalls) have the right to go into your home to see how many people are there with you.

    The Metropolitan Police are, once again, misleading Londoners about the law. I know we have a government which has a disregard for the law but we do not - yet - live in a lawless society where the police can just do what the hell they like.
    Government Regulations came into force in late September actually giving the police the legal power to impose fines for failing to quarantine, wear facemasks where required to or breaching the rule of 6

    https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-what-lockdown-breaches-can-you-be-fined-for-12077642
    Read my email. There are no laws requiring you to be 2 metres apart or to wash your hands and yet the Metropolitan Police are misleading the public by claiming that there are and that they will “enforce” such laws. Nor do they have the power to enter someone’s home to enforce the Rule of 6.
    The police can fine you for being in a group of more than 6 outside and if you are holding a house party inside can fine you for that too, the police can also fine you for not wearing a facemask on public transport, in shops, in cinemas, takeaways etc.

    Those are ample powers enough and are being used

    https://twitter.com/standardnews/status/1314173968430006272?s=20

    https://twitter.com/live_coventry/status/1314241285939703808?s=20
    These people are not subjects or vassals, they are voters.

    How do you think they are going to react when we do eventually get to have a say on all this bullsh8t??
    Most people support draconian measures, why do you act as though most people are very opposed? Some are, an increasing number I have no doubt, and there might well be a hit at some point (though I expect any hit will be due to economic matters more than liberty ones), but through most of this crisis people seem to have wanted harsher measures, done sooner, and the main issue has been with the competence of the measures.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,456
    Lots of heavy military-grade helicopter traffic over the farm in the last couple of days. We are on the White House - Camp David flight path (the helicopters literally fly directly over our farm at at most a couple of thousand feet). Two just now, so probably not Trump (usually 3 when it's him). I wonder who is at Camp David, then? Can't imagine its Melania's style
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,314
    DavidL said:

    My son got some guidance on how the Scottish exams that are going ahead are going to operate today. They are going to be a bit later, there is going to be more choice (since schools by now have done different parts of the curriculum) and fewer questions will have to be answered. The details vary from subject to subject but this seems the general plan.

    The object here is to give sufficient flexibility so that if schools do have to be closed/entirely virtual for a couple of weeks the exams are still doable. It's frustrating but whilst the 2021 results will have an asterisk against them it does appear that for the more serious exams that asterisk is going to be smaller than the one against the "results" in 2020.

    Another challenge coming down the path is that for many kids in 2022 their Highers, which will determine their future prospects, might be the first externally assessed exams that they have ever sat.

    Would you not agree that at least the Scottish government are doing well here? At least pupils, teachers and schools know roughly what lies ahead well in advance.

    I've got a feeling that Gavin Williamson may not be so on the ball south of the border. (No, not a feeling - a conviction).
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,427
    alex_ said:

    alex_ said:

    Given the numbers of students testing positive and presumably many more positives not being tested aren’t they all going to have had it in about 2-3 weeks? How many students in total at Newcastle University? They’re not going to have much time to spread it to the wider community.

    There’s roughly 24,000 students at Newcastle University and 27,000 at Northumbria University.

    So at least 50,000 students in Newcastle/Gateshead, not counting Newcastle College.

    1,600 COVID positive this week, perhaps 1,000 last week. Not that many.
    1,600 Positive and tested
    Well yeah. But we’ve been here before with this “iceberg” theory and it hasn’t really came about.

    I’m not sure what the testing policy is in the university halls of residence - it’s not likely to be those with just symptoms because there was a statistic that 80% last week were asymptomatic. Thus they must be catching most of the cases right now.
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221

    LadyG said:

    Didn't realise France has it even worse than us

    https://twitter.com/afneil/status/1314226891210084354?s=20

    They were into wave 2 a few weeks before us as I recall.
    Second wave of what?

    France had 80 deaths yesterday and its moving average is still under 100.

    Its perfectly possible to have elevated case numbers and not have your hospitals 'overwhelmed' or even 'whelmed'
    And yet Paris Hospitals have moved to emergency mode...

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2020/oct/08/coronavirus-live-news-brazil-cases-pass-5m-trump-calls-catching-covid-a-blessing-in-disguise?page=with:block-5f7f28388f08cd85729ac5a0#block-5f7f28388f08cd85729ac5a0

    Whether the hospitals are 'whelmed' or not an elevated number of cases is going to have an effect.
    From the same feed:


    "16:58
    French health authorities have reported 18,129 new Covid-19 infections, with the daily tally staying above 18,000 for the second day running after Wednesday’s all-time high of 18,746.

    The figures were published shortly before health minister Olivier Véran holds a news conference, scheduled for 4pm (GMT), during which he is likely to announce new restrictions to contain the disease."

    and

    "The French cities of Lyon, Lille, Grenoble and Saint-Etienne will go on maximum coronavirus alert level from Saturday, French health minister Olivier Véran said.

    Paris and Marseille were put on maximum alert earlier, which led to the closure of bars in those cities.

    Véran said the situation in Toulouse and Montpellier was also worrying and they could also be moved to the maximum Covid-19 alert level from early next week."

    France is going into a second national lockdown, only they are doing it "regionally"
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,870
    edited October 2020
    Omnium said:

    Cyclefree said:

    HYUFD said:

    Cyclefree said:



    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:
    They will not be able to force anyone to do anything.
    "They won't have the power to take enforcement action. If there are particularly egregious examples, they would need to escalate that to the police."
    They can inform the police on those not wearing facemasks, not social distancing etc so the police can then fine them.

    The police cannot be everywhere at once
    Here we go again.The police cannot enforce laws which don’t exist and there are no laws requiring you to be 2 metres away from anyone else. Guidelines are not laws and you cannot be fined for ignoring them. Nor do the police (let alone Covid Marshalls) have the right to go into your home to see how many people are there with you.

    The Metropolitan Police are, once again, misleading Londoners about the law. I know we have a government which has a disregard for the law but we do not - yet - live in a lawless society where the police can just do what the hell they like.
    Government Regulations came into force in late September actually giving the police the legal power to impose fines for failing to quarantine, wear facemasks where required to or breaching the rule of 6

    https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-what-lockdown-breaches-can-you-be-fined-for-12077642
    Read my email. There are no laws requiring you to be 2 metres apart or to wash your hands and yet the Metropolitan Police are misleading the public by claiming that there are and that they will “enforce” such laws. Nor do they have the power to enter someone’s home to enforce the Rule of 6.
    I quite like the Metropolitan Police. If they say something then mostly that's fine for me, at least in the short term.

    Trying to be picky about whether the police have got it quite right strikes me as unpleasant, and not the mindset of a law-abiding person.

    You what? It's precisely because I am a law abiding person that I for one am so keen that the police, when enforcing the law, get it right.

    Not caring if they do get it right is not abiding by the law, it is actually enabling unlawful behaviour by the police. They act within the bounds of the law, and have been granted authority over us as a result, so it is one area where it is quite reasonable for us to expect them to act only within those bounds and to err on the side of caution rather than assume powers that don't exist.

  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,586
    LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    Didn't realise France has it even worse than us

    https://twitter.com/afneil/status/1314226891210084354?s=20

    They were into wave 2 a few weeks before us as I recall.
    Second wave of what?

    France had 80 deaths yesterday and its moving average is still under 100.

    Its perfectly possible to have elevated case numbers and not have your hospitals 'overwhelmed' or even 'whelmed'
    And yet Paris Hospitals have moved to emergency mode...

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2020/oct/08/coronavirus-live-news-brazil-cases-pass-5m-trump-calls-catching-covid-a-blessing-in-disguise?page=with:block-5f7f28388f08cd85729ac5a0#block-5f7f28388f08cd85729ac5a0

    Whether the hospitals are 'whelmed' or not an elevated number of cases is going to have an effect.
    From the same feed:


    "16:58
    French health authorities have reported 18,129 new Covid-19 infections, with the daily tally staying above 18,000 for the second day running after Wednesday’s all-time high of 18,746.

    The figures were published shortly before health minister Olivier Véran holds a news conference, scheduled for 4pm (GMT), during which he is likely to announce new restrictions to contain the disease."

    and

    "The French cities of Lyon, Lille, Grenoble and Saint-Etienne will go on maximum coronavirus alert level from Saturday, French health minister Olivier Véran said.

    Paris and Marseille were put on maximum alert earlier, which led to the closure of bars in those cities.

    Véran said the situation in Toulouse and Montpellier was also worrying and they could also be moved to the maximum Covid-19 alert level from early next week."

    France is going into a second national lockdown, only they are doing it "regionally"
    Yes, and we are about three weeks behind them (although our cases are rising faster than theirs did at this stage).
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,691

    Omnium said:

    Massive BBC news! Journalist gets job! And ex-BBC!

    Lucky Claire Balding didn't stub her toe today as that might have caused this to be missed.

    Funny how the Tories always recruit from the BBC, whilst complaining it is a sewer of leftist bile.
    Well the BBC is left leaning.

    The more successful of these people tend to drift right though.

    I've no idea about her current status, but Stephanie Flanders is a good example - dated both the Eds as I recall - and then was at least a little left leaning in her reporting. Then went to JP Morgan and did some really good unbiased tv too at around that time.
  • DavidL said:

    Both Sky, BBC and The Piers Moron Show are guilty of this, increasingly they invite people on with very extreme views and then claim balance. So you get the Churchill was nothing but a racist vs Churchill never did a single thing wrong shout-athon.

    We are seeing it now with COVID, we have the lockdown absolutists vs the likes of Gupta or Sikora getting an incredible amount of airtime.

    Yes. It means the boring problems in the middle - of making sure that people isolate when asked to do so, even if they don't have symptoms - are not receiving the attention that they need.

    It's incredibly frustrating that Gupta is still being treated as someone with any credibility when the predictions she made during the first wave have been so comprehensively contradicted by subsequent events.

    But the need for a fake balance comes before everything.
    Yes, it's fake balance but also because the media always look for the splashier story. A moderate opinion is seen as intrinsically less interesting. A lot of media analysis becomes clearer if one thinks of the media as primarily a branch of the entertainment industry.
    Well, maybe, but why is that so?

    It seems to come back to Rory Stewart's observation of a lack of seriousness. All the quibbling over minutiae during the Covid crisis is another sign.

    If we can't be a bit serious a bit of the time about politics and our governance, then that's it for democracy.
    I miss Rory. We need people like him in Parliament.
    Old Etonians? Oxford PPE graduates? Spies?
    While it should not be the case that people who are Etonians with their natural sense of superiority are promoted to positions of responsibility when they have little else to offer (yes I am referring to Johnson), it would be equally ridiculous if we ignored people who are genuinely good who went there. IMO Rory Stewart is genuinely one of the latter variety. Your post smacks of silly small minded inverted snobbery.
  • NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,375

    FF43 said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Landlady in Scotland suggests the SNP stands for 'sorry no pubs'

    Good, should hit the SNP vote at Holyrood next year
    But if the UK Tories are seen to have done at least as bad a job (and as Boris is less popular than the SNP and Sturgeon, that's a given), surely that cancels out any failures north of the border?
    The Scottish Government Covid performance is nothing to write home about, but cases are running 30% less than in England per capita and are possibly not rising quite so fast.
    Compare Scotland to the South of England which still has the lowest infection rates in Europe
    Presumably you mean the 'South of England exc. London'?

    Is that really true, though? Do you have a link?
    https://www.statista.com/statistics/1139048/coronavirus-case-rates-in-the-past-7-days-in-europe-by-country/

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/54250626

    If you add the South West to the South East figure that would equate to less than 15 cases per 100000

    Malmesbury's wonderful daily breakdown shows this clearly.

    The North/South divide on Covid is extraordinary and I can find no explanantion for it.
This discussion has been closed.