Alok Sharma, the thinking man's Gillian Keegan is on Radio 4 now. A bit tetchy with Martha Kearney.
If one needs to know the rules, go on line, is Mr Sharma's go to statement.
For the chop in reshuffle. Sunday Times had a terrible (for him) write up this weekend summarising businesses view of his running of Business department.
Big difference between the CNN poll and the YouGov one.
Can't see the YouGov poll - what did it say?
The CBS/YouGov seems to be a poll of just those in the battleground states as it says battleground tracker at the bottom . If Biden leads by 8 there 49 to 41 then he will be very happy .
Who a, if that's just Battlegrounds then depending on the exact states Trump is REKT.
Nha, just read the full results. It is a regular national poll.
CBS collects all its polling under a Battleground Tracker section. Weird.
Big difference between the CNN poll and the YouGov one.
Can't see the YouGov poll - what did it say?
The CBS/YouGov seems to be a poll of just those in the battleground states as it says battleground tracker at the bottom . If Biden leads by 8 there 49 to 41 then he will be very happy .
Who a, if that's just Battlegrounds then depending on the exact states Trump is REKT.
That is being greeted as a killer admission/gaffe/blooper, when surely it is just common sense? No sense in dissing the deplorables, whoever you are.
What on Earth are you talking about? A democratic president that cannot condemn and reject white supremacists is no democrat at all. You don’t pander to these guys. How low we have fallen.
You don't know much about American history sadly if you think appealing to white supremacists is unusual. That is how the Democrats got the bulk of their vote for a very long time until the Republicans pivoted from being the party of Lincoln to the party seeking the Dixiecrat vote.
It is nonetheless indefensible to anyone who is not of a Ku Klux Klan persuasion, which is hopefully in excess of 50% of people in enough states.
Big difference between the CNN poll and the YouGov one.
Can't see the YouGov poll - what did it say?
The CBS/YouGov seems to be a poll of just those in the battleground states as it says battleground tracker at the bottom . If Biden leads by 8 there 49 to 41 then he will be very happy .
Who a, if that's just Battlegrounds then depending on the exact states Trump is REKT.
Says a nationally representative sample on the YouGov website.
That is being greeted as a killer admission/gaffe/blooper, when surely it is just common sense? No sense in dissing the deplorables, whoever you are.
He didn't just not criticise them, he told the Nazi's to "Stand By"
He isn't going to go quietly is he?
Nope.
My hope is that he has so pissed off the Pentagon and the top brass and retired generals like 'Mad Dog' that the military will rapidly put paid to any Trump militia taking to the streets after/if he loses.
Problem is if the militia wreck the actual voting process on the day.
Tickles me how few people realise the car industry as we know it is already dead, particularly the cross border supply chains for a technology that will be phased out completely in short order.
Yes, but where are the new car and battery plants being built ? Not here.
I don't think I'll bother with watching the debate then. All you can say is that at least American politics is somewhat honest and open. Wouldn't get that in Russia or China.
That is being greeted as a killer admission/gaffe/blooper, when surely it is just common sense? No sense in dissing the deplorables, whoever you are.
What on Earth are you talking about? A democratic president that cannot condemn and reject white supremacists is no democrat at all. You don’t pander to these guys. How low we have fallen.
You don't know much about American history sadly if you think appealing to white supremacists is unusual. That is how the Democrats got the bulk of their vote for a very long time until the Republicans pivoted from being the party of Lincoln to the party seeking the Dixiecrat vote.
Strange, if not, somewhat dangerous remarks. I am well aware of the history. At any point since 1940s it would have been unthinkable for a leading presidential contender to associate themselves directly and fail to condemn far right groups and stand a chance of winning. That’s a good thing.
That is being greeted as a killer admission/gaffe/blooper, when surely it is just common sense? No sense in dissing the deplorables, whoever you are.
What on Earth are you talking about? A democratic president that cannot condemn and reject white supremacists is no democrat at all. You don’t pander to these guys. How low we have fallen.
Just caught up - good grief it was horrendous. I think it`s fair to say that I`ll lose faith in the American people if they re-elect Trump. What a thick, nasty bully he is.
That is being greeted as a killer admission/gaffe/blooper, when surely it is just common sense? No sense in dissing the deplorables, whoever you are.
What on Earth are you talking about? A democratic president that cannot condemn and reject white supremacists is no democrat at all. You don’t pander to these guys. How low we have fallen.
I have no idea, I can't possibly speak for you personally. I didn't say you can or should or do pander to anyone, I said that what Santorum said just wasn't very interesting.
That is being greeted as a killer admission/gaffe/blooper, when surely it is just common sense? No sense in dissing the deplorables, whoever you are.
What on Earth are you talking about? A democratic president that cannot condemn and reject white supremacists is no democrat at all. You don’t pander to these guys. How low we have fallen.
You don't know much about American history sadly if you think appealing to white supremacists is unusual. That is how the Democrats got the bulk of their vote for a very long time until the Republicans pivoted from being the party of Lincoln to the party seeking the Dixiecrat vote.
It is nonetheless indefensible to anyone who is not of a Ku Klux Klan persuasion, which is hopefully in excess of 50% of people in enough states.
Hope is the denial of reality.
I would hope for that too but America is America not you and me. Trump will lose I expect because he's been a terrible President, not because he's a white supremacist.
Tickles me how few people realise the car industry as we know it is already dead, particularly the cross border supply chains for a technology that will be phased out completely in short order.
Yes, but where are the new car and battery plants being built ? Not here.
The new electric Jaguar XJ is going to be built in the UK. I mean, it'll be fucking garbage but it'll be built in the UK.
Alok Sharma, the thinking man's Gillian Keegan is on Radio 4 now. A bit tetchy with Martha Kearney.
If one needs to know the rules, go on line, is Mr Sharma's go to statement.
Actually that is the best advice any politician can give
Here in Conwy CBC we were instructed to go into lockdown tonight and everyone I know and on social media spoke about Conwy web site that provides all the information that is necessary
We are not allowed to cross into another authority's area apart from for work, we are not allowed to leave to go away on holiday, and those on holiday here must go home
My hometown of Llandudno was just recovering and now Mark Drakeford has slammed the door on our hotels and guest houses
Another piece of brilliant comms from the culture war team. Try and make it all about the BBC when millions could be fined for not knowing a set of rules whose complexity would now make Luis Borges blush.
Nandy nails it. It’s sad to see ministers compromise themselves in this way. If the government expects us to do X, then it should know what X is. Especially if it will fine us for not doing it.
That is being greeted as a killer admission/gaffe/blooper, when surely it is just common sense? No sense in dissing the deplorables, whoever you are.
He didn't just not criticise them, he told the Nazi's to "Stand By"
He isn't going to go quietly is he?
Nope.
My hope is that he has so pissed off the Pentagon and the top brass and retired generals like 'Mad Dog' that the military will rapidly put paid to any Trump militia taking to the streets after/if he loses.
Problem is if the militia wreck the actual voting process on the day.
I have said for a while that armed "monitors" will be posted at all polling stations in Democrat and TCTC wards.
Nandy nails it. It’s sad to see ministers compromise themselves in this way. If the government expects us to do X, then it should know what X is. Especially if it will fine us for not doing it.
This is not hard or controversial.
It's a disgrace. Instead of asking gameshow gotcha questions the BBC should be allowing ministers to explain to people the really very simple rules that are easy to understand.
Nandy nails it. It’s sad to see ministers compromise themselves in this way. If the government expects us to do X, then it should know what X is. Especially if it will fine us for not doing it.
This is not hard or controversial.
I very much doubt Nandy knows the specific details of the various lockdowns across the UK
Nandy nails it. It’s sad to see ministers compromise themselves in this way. If the government expects us to do X, then it should know what X is. Especially if it will fine us for not doing it.
This is not hard or controversial.
I very much doubt Nandy knows the specific details of the various lockdowns across the UK
If Nandy was a government minister, responsible and accountable for a law that impacts the civil liberties of millions, I would expect her to know the law and explain why the measures were necessary. That would doubly be the case if she opted to go on to a national news programme at the moment the laws we’re coming into effect.
Nandy nails it. It’s sad to see ministers compromise themselves in this way. If the government expects us to do X, then it should know what X is. Especially if it will fine us for not doing it.
This is not hard or controversial.
I very much doubt Nandy knows the specific details of the various lockdowns across the UK
But she is not in government, so it is not as important that she is clueless. Johnson, Keegan and Sharma not understanding what is going on is far more worrying.
That is being greeted as a killer admission/gaffe/blooper, when surely it is just common sense? No sense in dissing the deplorables, whoever you are.
He didn't just not criticise them, he told the Nazi's to "Stand By"
He isn't going to go quietly is he?
Nope.
My hope is that he has so pissed off the Pentagon and the top brass and retired generals like 'Mad Dog' that the military will rapidly put paid to any Trump militia taking to the streets after/if he loses.
Problem is if the militia wreck the actual voting process on the day.
This whole Lose election in Nov, leave office in Jan thing needs revisiting, cos it means being CinC till Jan.
Nandy nails it. It’s sad to see ministers compromise themselves in this way. If the government expects us to do X, then it should know what X is. Especially if it will fine us for not doing it.
This is not hard or controversial.
I very much doubt Nandy knows the specific details of the various lockdowns across the UK
Maybe but she probably knows more than this wretched incompetent Tory government.
It always seemed odd to me that the risks were ignored when the EOTHO policy was discussed.
"It will be tougher for many in Westminster to swallow than the subsidised food, but it increasingly looks as if the August Eat Out to Help Out scheme (EOTHO) was a costly economic and public health mistake.
Evidence now suggests that restaurants are important vectors in our current case uptick. More than that, the scheme has entrenched dining behaviours that threaten more transmission today. It is bizarre then that Rishi Sunak has avoided more critical scrutiny of the policy."
I am a health care professional, interested in current affairs and I have long since lost track.
I am just doing what seems sensible now, and discrete.
If I have understood it correctly (big if), in the NE you can go to the pub but you can't meet anyone from another household there.
What actual planet do these people live on?
My difficulty with that is the definition of "meet". If it's "be close to", then indoors pubs mostly won't work like that. If it's "sit together for a significant period" then it's easy to avoid, but may not be enough for health purposes. Either way, I would like Ministers to define precisely (a) what is illegal and will get me fined (b) what is legal but thought unwise and (c) what is seen as unproblematic. I'd be fine with them spending public money to send everyone a guide on that.
The worry is that because Ministers seem at sea over the detail and the medias love gotcha moments, the perception is that the rules are messy and unclear. And that IS objectively stupid and not in anyone's interest at all.
Nandy nails it. It’s sad to see ministers compromise themselves in this way. If the government expects us to do X, then it should know what X is. Especially if it will fine us for not doing it.
This is not hard or controversial.
I very much doubt Nandy knows the specific details of the various lockdowns across the UK
But she is not in government, so it is not as important that she is as clueless as. Johnson, Keegan and Sharma not understanding what is going on is far more worrying.
Nandy nails it. It’s sad to see ministers compromise themselves in this way. If the government expects us to do X, then it should know what X is. Especially if it will fine us for not doing it.
This is not hard or controversial.
I very much doubt Nandy knows the specific details of the various lockdowns across the UK
If Nandy was a government minister, responsible and accountable for a law that impacts the civil liberties of millions, I would expect her to know the law and explain why the measures were necessary. That would doubly be the case if she opted to go on to a national news programme at the moment the laws we’re coming into effect.
This is not hard or controversial.
So if you are an opposition mp advising your constituents you do not need to be over the detail
If we are being honest the details are complex and variable depending where you live in the UK with lots of anomalies
It is true however, that the individual area requirements are laid out in detail on the local authorities website sites for reference
Wondering what historians will call this nationalist, populist Trump/Boris era. Some kind of angry mid life crisis. A spasm of self loathing and self destruction.
Certainly self destruction. If Trump wins American democracy is over, at least at the federal level. We have seen nothing yet compared what he (and his sycophantic GOP fellow travellers) will do with four more years. Progressive leaning states will have to leave the union.
We could easily see near civil war frankly. Look at his comment for white supremacy militia to "stand by".
This feels like the most dangerous and politically important few weeks in my lifetime.
Not just sycophantic - men like Barr or Pompeo are dangerous in their own right.
Nandy nails it. It’s sad to see ministers compromise themselves in this way. If the government expects us to do X, then it should know what X is. Especially if it will fine us for not doing it.
This is not hard or controversial.
It's a disgrace. Instead of asking gameshow gotcha questions the BBC should be allowing ministers to explain to people the really very simple rules that are easy to understand.
Instead of humiliating Government Ministers with "gotcha" questions, why dont the BBC not invite Ministers on shows and instead refer the public to government online advice, which is all Ministers are doing now when they appear on the BBC anyway.
I am a health care professional, interested in current affairs and I have long since lost track.
I am just doing what seems sensible now, and discrete.
If I have understood it correctly (big if), in the NE you can go to the pub but you can't meet anyone from another household there.
What actual planet do these people live on?
My difficulty with that is the definition of "meet". If it's "be close to", then indoors pubs mostly won't work like that. If it's "sit together for a significant period" then it's easy to avoid, but may not be enough for health purposes. Either way, I would like Ministers to define precisely (a) what is illegal and will get me fined (b) what is legal but thought unwise and (c) what is seen as unproblematic. I'd be fine with them spending public money to send everyone a guide on that.
The worry is that because Ministers seem at sea over the detail and the medias love gotcha moments, the perception is that the rules are messy and unclear. And that IS objectively stupid and not in anyone's interest at all.
The other problem is the constant changes to the rules. Something the Italian and Swedish governments do better on is having rules that stay the same for long periods.
Nandy nails it. It’s sad to see ministers compromise themselves in this way. If the government expects us to do X, then it should know what X is. Especially if it will fine us for not doing it.
This is not hard or controversial.
I very much doubt Nandy knows the specific details of the various lockdowns across the UK
But she is not in government, so it is not as important that she is as clueless as. Johnson, Keegan and Sharma not understanding what is going on is far more worrying.
Nandy nails it. It’s sad to see ministers compromise themselves in this way. If the government expects us to do X, then it should know what X is. Especially if it will fine us for not doing it.
This is not hard or controversial.
I very much doubt Nandy knows the specific details of the various lockdowns across the UK
If Nandy was a government minister, responsible and accountable for a law that impacts the civil liberties of millions, I would expect her to know the law and explain why the measures were necessary. That would doubly be the case if she opted to go on to a national news programme at the moment the laws we’re coming into effect.
This is not hard or controversial.
So if you are an opposition mp advising your constituents you do not need to be over the detail
If we are being honest the details are complex and variable depending where you live in the UK with lots of anomalies
It is true however, that the individual area requirements are laid out in detail on the local authorities website sites for reference
Nice whataboutery. Let’s start with the basics. Should government ministers be able to understand and explain the laws they are making when they interrupt the civil liberties of millions?
Nandy nails it. It’s sad to see ministers compromise themselves in this way. If the government expects us to do X, then it should know what X is. Especially if it will fine us for not doing it.
This is not hard or controversial.
I very much doubt Nandy knows the specific details of the various lockdowns across the UK
But she is not in government, so it is not as important that she is as clueless as. Johnson, Keegan and Sharma not understanding what is going on is far more worrying.
Nandy nails it. It’s sad to see ministers compromise themselves in this way. If the government expects us to do X, then it should know what X is. Especially if it will fine us for not doing it.
This is not hard or controversial.
I very much doubt Nandy knows the specific details of the various lockdowns across the UK
If Nandy was a government minister, responsible and accountable for a law that impacts the civil liberties of millions, I would expect her to know the law and explain why the measures were necessary. That would doubly be the case if she opted to go on to a national news programme at the moment the laws we’re coming into effect.
This is not hard or controversial.
So if you are an opposition mp advising your constituents you do not need to be over the detail
If we are being honest the details are complex and variable depending where you live in the UK with lots of anomalies
It is true however, that the individual area requirements are laid out in detail on the local authorities website sites for reference
But BigG. Johnson and friends are the ones writing the rules that they appear not to understand. How can anyone else, me, you and Nandy included be expected to know what is going on if the authors of the rules don't know?
Nandy nails it. It’s sad to see ministers compromise themselves in this way. If the government expects us to do X, then it should know what X is. Especially if it will fine us for not doing it.
This is not hard or controversial.
I very much doubt Nandy knows the specific details of the various lockdowns across the UK
But she is not in government, so it is not as important that she is as clueless as. Johnson, Keegan and Sharma not understanding what is going on is far more worrying.
Nandy nails it. It’s sad to see ministers compromise themselves in this way. If the government expects us to do X, then it should know what X is. Especially if it will fine us for not doing it.
This is not hard or controversial.
I very much doubt Nandy knows the specific details of the various lockdowns across the UK
If Nandy was a government minister, responsible and accountable for a law that impacts the civil liberties of millions, I would expect her to know the law and explain why the measures were necessary. That would doubly be the case if she opted to go on to a national news programme at the moment the laws we’re coming into effect.
This is not hard or controversial.
So if you are an opposition mp advising your constituents you do not need to be over the detail
If we are being honest the details are complex and variable depending where you live in the UK with lots of anomalies
It is true however, that the individual area requirements are laid out in detail on the local authorities website sites for reference
Nice whataboutery. Let’s start with the basics. Should government ministers be able to understand and explain the laws they are making when they interrupt the civil liberties of millions?
Simple question.
Yes where they are the same, but different rules apply often from input by local council leaders
Alok Sharma, the thinking man's Gillian Keegan is on Radio 4 now. A bit tetchy with Martha Kearney.
If one needs to know the rules, go on line, is Mr Sharma's go to statement.
Actually that is the best advice any politician can give
Here in Conwy CBC we were instructed to go into lockdown tonight and everyone I know and on social media spoke about Conwy web site that provides all the information that is necessary
We are not allowed to cross into another authority's area apart from for work, we are not allowed to leave to go away on holiday, and those on holiday here must go home
My hometown of Llandudno was just recovering and now Mark Drakeford has slammed the door on our hotels and guest houses
I have relations with a holiday caravan on Anglesey. They live in Lancashire. I assume that the caravan is now inaccessible by road. After all one cannot, without an enormous detour get from just N of Manchester to Beaumaris by road without going through Conwy. AIUI they're intending to visit next week.
Nandy nails it. It’s sad to see ministers compromise themselves in this way. If the government expects us to do X, then it should know what X is. Especially if it will fine us for not doing it.
This is not hard or controversial.
I very much doubt Nandy knows the specific details of the various lockdowns across the UK
But she is not in government, so it is not as important that she is as clueless as. Johnson, Keegan and Sharma not understanding what is going on is far more worrying.
Nandy nails it. It’s sad to see ministers compromise themselves in this way. If the government expects us to do X, then it should know what X is. Especially if it will fine us for not doing it.
This is not hard or controversial.
I very much doubt Nandy knows the specific details of the various lockdowns across the UK
If Nandy was a government minister, responsible and accountable for a law that impacts the civil liberties of millions, I would expect her to know the law and explain why the measures were necessary. That would doubly be the case if she opted to go on to a national news programme at the moment the laws we’re coming into effect.
This is not hard or controversial.
So if you are an opposition mp advising your constituents you do not need to be over the detail
If we are being honest the details are complex and variable depending where you live in the UK with lots of anomalies
It is true however, that the individual area requirements are laid out in detail on the local authorities website sites for reference
Nice whataboutery. Let’s start with the basics. Should government ministers be able to understand and explain the laws they are making when they interrupt the civil liberties of millions?
Simple question.
No. The MOT test is an infringement of my right to do as I like with my own property. Do you expect the PM to know off the top of his head the revised limit on the headlamp aim test for pre-2014 registrations?
Tickles me how few people realise the car industry as we know it is already dead, particularly the cross border supply chains for a technology that will be phased out completely in short order.
Yes, but where are the new car and battery plants being built ? Not here.
The new electric Jaguar XJ is going to be built in the UK. I mean, it'll be fucking garbage but it'll be built in the UK.
True, but not exactly mass market. A few years time, our car industry could easily be a fraction of its current size.
I don't think I'll bother with watching the debate then. All you can say is that at least American politics is somewhat honest and open. Wouldn't get that in Russia or China.
The original Brexit deal negotiated by former PM Theresa May contained a route to minimise checks on what are known as "rules of origin".
That option was removed as part of the revision to the withdrawal agreement a year ago. But Lord Frost points out that the UK and EU27 car industries have jointly asked for such arrangements, including special consideration for electric vehicle exports.
Nandy nails it. It’s sad to see ministers compromise themselves in this way. If the government expects us to do X, then it should know what X is. Especially if it will fine us for not doing it.
This is not hard or controversial.
I very much doubt Nandy knows the specific details of the various lockdowns across the UK
But she is not in government, so it is not as important that she is as clueless as. Johnson, Keegan and Sharma not understanding what is going on is far more worrying.
Nandy nails it. It’s sad to see ministers compromise themselves in this way. If the government expects us to do X, then it should know what X is. Especially if it will fine us for not doing it.
This is not hard or controversial.
I very much doubt Nandy knows the specific details of the various lockdowns across the UK
If Nandy was a government minister, responsible and accountable for a law that impacts the civil liberties of millions, I would expect her to know the law and explain why the measures were necessary. That would doubly be the case if she opted to go on to a national news programme at the moment the laws we’re coming into effect.
This is not hard or controversial.
So if you are an opposition mp advising your constituents you do not need to be over the detail
If we are being honest the details are complex and variable depending where you live in the UK with lots of anomalies
It is true however, that the individual area requirements are laid out in detail on the local authorities website sites for reference
But BigG. Johnson and friends are the ones writing the rules that they appear not to understand. How can anyone else, me, you and Nandy included be expected to know what is going on if the authors of the rules don't know?
I have no idea what is going on here in Wales and was only alerted to Conwy CC lockdown tonight through whats app
Drakeford changes rules almost daily, and as I have reported elsewhere, our only source of information is on Conwy's web site
Nandy nails it. It’s sad to see ministers compromise themselves in this way. If the government expects us to do X, then it should know what X is. Especially if it will fine us for not doing it.
This is not hard or controversial.
I very much doubt Nandy knows the specific details of the various lockdowns across the UK
But she is not in government, so it is not as important that she is as clueless as. Johnson, Keegan and Sharma not understanding what is going on is far more worrying.
Nandy nails it. It’s sad to see ministers compromise themselves in this way. If the government expects us to do X, then it should know what X is. Especially if it will fine us for not doing it.
This is not hard or controversial.
I very much doubt Nandy knows the specific details of the various lockdowns across the UK
If Nandy was a government minister, responsible and accountable for a law that impacts the civil liberties of millions, I would expect her to know the law and explain why the measures were necessary. That would doubly be the case if she opted to go on to a national news programme at the moment the laws we’re coming into effect.
This is not hard or controversial.
So if you are an opposition mp advising your constituents you do not need to be over the detail
If we are being honest the details are complex and variable depending where you live in the UK with lots of anomalies
It is true however, that the individual area requirements are laid out in detail on the local authorities website sites for reference
Nice whataboutery. Let’s start with the basics. Should government ministers be able to understand and explain the laws they are making when they interrupt the civil liberties of millions?
Simple question.
Yes where they are the same, but different rules apply often from input by local council leaders
We’re talking about big regional lockdowns using nationally enacted powers impacting millions. You make it sound like a parish council enacting a new bylaw for the village green.
The government minister going on national media should be able to explain this stuff. No ifs, no buts.
Alok Sharma, the thinking man's Gillian Keegan is on Radio 4 now. A bit tetchy with Martha Kearney.
If one needs to know the rules, go on line, is Mr Sharma's go to statement.
Actually that is the best advice any politician can give
Here in Conwy CBC we were instructed to go into lockdown tonight and everyone I know and on social media spoke about Conwy web site that provides all the information that is necessary
We are not allowed to cross into another authority's area apart from for work, we are not allowed to leave to go away on holiday, and those on holiday here must go home
My hometown of Llandudno was just recovering and now Mark Drakeford has slammed the door on our hotels and guest houses
And yet up stream you have pointed out how bad things are in Wales with a massive outbreak at the Royal Glamorgan Hospital.
The Welsh Government can be criticised for being rubbish because they are closing down hospitality to stem the virus, or they are rubbish because they haven't closed Welsh Counties down quick enough to stem the infection rate. It can't be both, it has to be one or the other.
Alok Sharma, the thinking man's Gillian Keegan is on Radio 4 now. A bit tetchy with Martha Kearney.
If one needs to know the rules, go on line, is Mr Sharma's go to statement.
Actually that is the best advice any politician can give
Here in Conwy CBC we were instructed to go into lockdown tonight and everyone I know and on social media spoke about Conwy web site that provides all the information that is necessary
We are not allowed to cross into another authority's area apart from for work, we are not allowed to leave to go away on holiday, and those on holiday here must go home
My hometown of Llandudno was just recovering and now Mark Drakeford has slammed the door on our hotels and guest houses
I have relations with a holiday caravan on Anglesey. They live in Lancashire. I assume that the caravan is now inaccessible by road. After all one cannot, without an enormous detour get from just N of Manchester to Beaumaris by road without going through Conwy. AIUI they're intending to visit next week.
Exactly
They will not even be able to reach Conwy CBC let alone Anglesey
I am a health care professional, interested in current affairs and I have long since lost track.
I am just doing what seems sensible now, and discrete.
If I have understood it correctly (big if), in the NE you can go to the pub but you can't meet anyone from another household there.
What actual planet do these people live on?
My difficulty with that is the definition of "meet". If it's "be close to", then indoors pubs mostly won't work like that. If it's "sit together for a significant period" then it's easy to avoid, but may not be enough for health purposes. Either way, I would like Ministers to define precisely (a) what is illegal and will get me fined (b) what is legal but thought unwise and (c) what is seen as unproblematic. I'd be fine with them spending public money to send everyone a guide on that.
The worry is that because Ministers seem at sea over the detail and the medias love gotcha moments, the perception is that the rules are messy and unclear. And that IS objectively stupid and not in anyone's interest at all.
The other problem is the constant changes to the rules. Something the Italian and Swedish governments do better on is having rules that stay the same for long periods.
I suppose the constant changes are in large part a consequence of trying to manage the virus on a regional basis. It seems a good idea in theory, but in practice it just confuses people.
Alok Sharma, the thinking man's Gillian Keegan is on Radio 4 now. A bit tetchy with Martha Kearney.
If one needs to know the rules, go on line, is Mr Sharma's go to statement.
Actually that is the best advice any politician can give
Here in Conwy CBC we were instructed to go into lockdown tonight and everyone I know and on social media spoke about Conwy web site that provides all the information that is necessary
We are not allowed to cross into another authority's area apart from for work, we are not allowed to leave to go away on holiday, and those on holiday here must go home
My hometown of Llandudno was just recovering and now Mark Drakeford has slammed the door on our hotels and guest houses
I have relations with a holiday caravan on Anglesey. They live in Lancashire. I assume that the caravan is now inaccessible by road. After all one cannot, without an enormous detour get from just N of Manchester to Beaumaris by road without going through Conwy. AIUI they're intending to visit next week.
There was a similar question on 5 live yesterday. Apparently Anglesey is not in the restricted area, so fine to go and stay. At least it was fine yesterday...🙄
The polling suggests Biden won the debate on a least-bad basis. I wonder whether Trump's strategy is voter suppression - depress turnout to the point that the true enthusiasts dominate. Clearly Trump has more zealots than Biden. But negative reactions are important in politics too, and I think the anti-Trump vote is as motivated as the pro-Trump vote (as the WP said, it's got to the point where many people would vote for almost anyone at all except Trump).
The eternal dilemma with Trump is whether there's a cunning, evil strategy or whether it's just a confused angry old man acting confused and angry, and I can see the tactical case for constantly heckling Biden to prevent him from delivering a scripted line. But once you're getting into arguments with the Fox News moderator, I really don't believe it's strategy.
Sometimes when someone looks like they're losing, it's because they're losing.
Alok Sharma, the thinking man's Gillian Keegan is on Radio 4 now. A bit tetchy with Martha Kearney.
If one needs to know the rules, go on line, is Mr Sharma's go to statement.
Actually that is the best advice any politician can give
Here in Conwy CBC we were instructed to go into lockdown tonight and everyone I know and on social media spoke about Conwy web site that provides all the information that is necessary
We are not allowed to cross into another authority's area apart from for work, we are not allowed to leave to go away on holiday, and those on holiday here must go home
My hometown of Llandudno was just recovering and now Mark Drakeford has slammed the door on our hotels and guest houses
I have relations with a holiday caravan on Anglesey. They live in Lancashire. I assume that the caravan is now inaccessible by road. After all one cannot, without an enormous detour get from just N of Manchester to Beaumaris by road without going through Conwy. AIUI they're intending to visit next week.
Exactly
They will not even be able to reach Conwy CBC let alone Anglesey
Do you really want infected people from the North West of England coughing all over you on their way to their North Wales holiday homes?
Nandy nails it. It’s sad to see ministers compromise themselves in this way. If the government expects us to do X, then it should know what X is. Especially if it will fine us for not doing it.
This is not hard or controversial.
I very much doubt Nandy knows the specific details of the various lockdowns across the UK
But she is not in government, so it is not as important that she is as clueless as. Johnson, Keegan and Sharma not understanding what is going on is far more worrying.
Nandy nails it. It’s sad to see ministers compromise themselves in this way. If the government expects us to do X, then it should know what X is. Especially if it will fine us for not doing it.
This is not hard or controversial.
I very much doubt Nandy knows the specific details of the various lockdowns across the UK
If Nandy was a government minister, responsible and accountable for a law that impacts the civil liberties of millions, I would expect her to know the law and explain why the measures were necessary. That would doubly be the case if she opted to go on to a national news programme at the moment the laws we’re coming into effect.
This is not hard or controversial.
So if you are an opposition mp advising your constituents you do not need to be over the detail
If we are being honest the details are complex and variable depending where you live in the UK with lots of anomalies
It is true however, that the individual area requirements are laid out in detail on the local authorities website sites for reference
Nice whataboutery. Let’s start with the basics. Should government ministers be able to understand and explain the laws they are making when they interrupt the civil liberties of millions?
Simple question.
No. The MOT test is an infringement of my right to do as I like with my own property. Do you expect the PM to know off the top of his head the revised limit on the headlamp aim test for pre-2014 registrations?
That’s a really weak argument. Well done. Citizens are supposed to follow the rules directly. MOT testers are trained to test regulations.
This is not some arcane point of detail, but a restriction of civil liberties impacting millions.
Nandy nails it. It’s sad to see ministers compromise themselves in this way. If the government expects us to do X, then it should know what X is. Especially if it will fine us for not doing it.
This is not hard or controversial.
I very much doubt Nandy knows the specific details of the various lockdowns across the UK
But she is not in government, so it is not as important that she is as clueless as. Johnson, Keegan and Sharma not understanding what is going on is far more worrying.
Nandy nails it. It’s sad to see ministers compromise themselves in this way. If the government expects us to do X, then it should know what X is. Especially if it will fine us for not doing it.
This is not hard or controversial.
I very much doubt Nandy knows the specific details of the various lockdowns across the UK
If Nandy was a government minister, responsible and accountable for a law that impacts the civil liberties of millions, I would expect her to know the law and explain why the measures were necessary. That would doubly be the case if she opted to go on to a national news programme at the moment the laws we’re coming into effect.
This is not hard or controversial.
So if you are an opposition mp advising your constituents you do not need to be over the detail
If we are being honest the details are complex and variable depending where you live in the UK with lots of anomalies
It is true however, that the individual area requirements are laid out in detail on the local authorities website sites for reference
Nice whataboutery. Let’s start with the basics. Should government ministers be able to understand and explain the laws they are making when they interrupt the civil liberties of millions?
Simple question.
If they are laws then yes. Guidance not so much. Bearing in mind that the government has little appetite to actually prosecute people over this, are these merely guidelines masquarading as laws?
Alok Sharma, the thinking man's Gillian Keegan is on Radio 4 now. A bit tetchy with Martha Kearney.
If one needs to know the rules, go on line, is Mr Sharma's go to statement.
Actually that is the best advice any politician can give
Except it isn’t Big G because when the increased lockdown for the North East was announced, not even the LAs had any idea what the rules were. There was nothing on the internet to check.
Alok Sharma, the thinking man's Gillian Keegan is on Radio 4 now. A bit tetchy with Martha Kearney.
If one needs to know the rules, go on line, is Mr Sharma's go to statement.
Actually that is the best advice any politician can give
Here in Conwy CBC we were instructed to go into lockdown tonight and everyone I know and on social media spoke about Conwy web site that provides all the information that is necessary
We are not allowed to cross into another authority's area apart from for work, we are not allowed to leave to go away on holiday, and those on holiday here must go home
My hometown of Llandudno was just recovering and now Mark Drakeford has slammed the door on our hotels and guest houses
I have relations with a holiday caravan on Anglesey. They live in Lancashire. I assume that the caravan is now inaccessible by road. After all one cannot, without an enormous detour get from just N of Manchester to Beaumaris by road without going through Conwy. AIUI they're intending to visit next week.
Exactly
They will not even be able to reach Conwy CBC let alone Anglesey
Do you really want infected people from the North West of England coughing all over you on their way to their North Wales holiday homes?
Of course not but we are now cut off from England and that is going to annoy a lot of people, especially those living near the border
Tickles me how few people realise the car industry as we know it is already dead, particularly the cross border supply chains for a technology that will be phased out completely in short order.
Yes, but where are the new car and battery plants being built ? Not here.
The new electric Jaguar XJ is going to be built in the UK. I mean, it'll be fucking garbage but it'll be built in the UK.
True, but not exactly mass market. A few years time, our car industry could easily be a fraction of its current size.
Really quite scary for the North East. I hope the government doesn’t underestimate how important the Sunderland factory is for the entire region.
In South Wales it seemed to begin with holiday makers importing the virus back from the greek islands.
My sources told me in early August that the Princess of Wales Hospital in Bridgend was all set for an increased workload three weeks after the schools went back, and here we are three weeks after the schools went back...
Not that I am advocating shutting schools, just saying.
Wondering what historians will call this nationalist, populist Trump/Boris era. Some kind of angry mid life crisis. A spasm of self loathing and self destruction.
So it begins. I expect many more "insightful" takes like this in the months to come.
They are both not an aberration in an otherwise seamless liberal internationalist nirvana. But they reflect deep cultural and political concerns amongst the electorate at large.
Like the Bourbons since the Left-modernists and liberals are incapable of learning any lessons from this whatsoever - whilst forgetting nothing - we will certainly repeat the experience.
I am a health care professional, interested in current affairs and I have long since lost track.
I am just doing what seems sensible now, and discrete.
If I have understood it correctly (big if), in the NE you can go to the pub but you can't meet anyone from another household there.
What actual planet do these people live on?
My difficulty with that is the definition of "meet". If it's "be close to", then indoors pubs mostly won't work like that. If it's "sit together for a significant period" then it's easy to avoid, but may not be enough for health purposes. Either way, I would like Ministers to define precisely (a) what is illegal and will get me fined (b) what is legal but thought unwise and (c) what is seen as unproblematic. I'd be fine with them spending public money to send everyone a guide on that.
The worry is that because Ministers seem at sea over the detail and the medias love gotcha moments, the perception is that the rules are messy and unclear. And that IS objectively stupid and not in anyone's interest at all.
The other problem is the constant changes to the rules. Something the Italian and Swedish governments do better on is having rules that stay the same for long periods.
Telling people to “look at websites” also isn’t helpful when, as I think somebody pointed out on here the other day, a large number of government websites aren’t being updated in a timely fashion and are being left with inaccurate information.
If it was all just guidance these questions wouldn’t matter - the Govt would be perfectly justified in responding - “if you are confused apply common sense and err on the side of caution”.
But it’s not it’s the law, backed up by significant potential penalties for non compliance.
What’s more, understanding the anomalies matters, because in many cases they are deliberate under the policy of “trade offs” ie. clamp down hard on virus spreading activities to allow some leniency in activities which help businesses and the economy, children’s’ education etc. We are allowed to go to pubs and restaurants because, ultimately the Govt wants pubs and restaurants to remain viable businesses. So knowing what we can do in them matters. We are under no responsibility nor encouragement, if we are not sure, to just stay at home.
Alok Sharma, the thinking man's Gillian Keegan is on Radio 4 now. A bit tetchy with Martha Kearney.
If one needs to know the rules, go on line, is Mr Sharma's go to statement.
Actually that is the best advice any politician can give
Here in Conwy CBC we were instructed to go into lockdown tonight and everyone I know and on social media spoke about Conwy web site that provides all the information that is necessary
We are not allowed to cross into another authority's area apart from for work, we are not allowed to leave to go away on holiday, and those on holiday here must go home
My hometown of Llandudno was just recovering and now Mark Drakeford has slammed the door on our hotels and guest houses
And yet up stream you have pointed out how bad things are in Wales with a massive outbreak at the Royal Glamorgan Hospital.
The Welsh Government can be criticised for being rubbish because they are closing down hospitality to stem the virus, or they are rubbish because they haven't closed Welsh Counties down quick enough to stem the infection rate. It can't be both, it has to be one or the other.
It is the case that South Wales is far greater risk than Conwy CBC
Biden's team should have anticipated and prepared for Trump's tactics....a repeat of what he did to Hilary in 2016. Whilst Trump came across as he did last time (where he eventually won), I suspect Biden will be most annoyed. Trump's core will not have been affected, however certain groups who were undecided may have taken something from it. I reckon this debate wont have changed much but Biden's job might be a little harder,
I chose sleep but it is never a good look to have the potential President of the United States getting pushed around or bullied. You can see the Fox lines now, will Putin be polite, will Xi Jinping? If you want someone who can stand up for America Trump's your man.
Of course he's not a very nice man. He's obnoxious, dishonest, racist, misogynist, you name it, but he won't be bullied. Biden, on the other hand...
Biden called Trump a liar to his face. He said "Will just shut up man" "Yap yap" I watched it live. Biden was trying to be presidential but his patience was tried. He did well to keep his temper. Trump acted like quote "a poop-throwing toodler". Trump is subservient to Putin, Xi and Kim who I suspect despise him.
On the USA election. I'm really grateful to all those on here who have taught me so much about USA politics; I confess that until fairly recently I didn't know enough, but I now feel well informed. So here's my take, having listened to the debate last night.
In 2008 the USA elected its first African-American president. A man who, whatever one thought of his politics, was clearly decent, intelligent and thoughtful. This felt like real progress at the time; a country coming to terms with the modern world.
Roll on to 2020, and it's possible (though unlikely) that they will re-elect an unintelligent, racist, misogynistic bigoted bully for the second time. (Among a multitude of sins, the fact that the USA has such a dreadful record on Covid for a wealthy country should be enough to finish him off.) And even if they don't elect Trump, his opponent, although a decent man, is unlikely to make a good, let along great, president. Hopefully, Trump's playground bully performance last night will alienate more undecided voters than it will seduce. Bu even if he loses, the fact that around 45% of voters will support him speaks to me of a deep malaise at the heart of the USA.
This is a country that has gone backwards since 2008, not forwards. It is depressing, especially given the importance of the USA on the global stage.
Tickles me how few people realise the car industry as we know it is already dead, particularly the cross border supply chains for a technology that will be phased out completely in short order.
Yes, but where are the new car and battery plants being built ? Not here.
The new electric Jaguar XJ is going to be built in the UK. I mean, it'll be fucking garbage but it'll be built in the UK.
True, but not exactly mass market. A few years time, our car industry could easily be a fraction of its current size.
Really quite scary for the North East. I hope the government doesn’t underestimate how important the Sunderland factory is for the entire region.
Well, they were warned, but voted for Brexit anyway. I have limited sympathy.
Alok Sharma, the thinking man's Gillian Keegan is on Radio 4 now. A bit tetchy with Martha Kearney.
If one needs to know the rules, go on line, is Mr Sharma's go to statement.
Actually that is the best advice any politician can give
Here in Conwy CBC we were instructed to go into lockdown tonight and everyone I know and on social media spoke about Conwy web site that provides all the information that is necessary
We are not allowed to cross into another authority's area apart from for work, we are not allowed to leave to go away on holiday, and those on holiday here must go home
My hometown of Llandudno was just recovering and now Mark Drakeford has slammed the door on our hotels and guest houses
I have relations with a holiday caravan on Anglesey. They live in Lancashire. I assume that the caravan is now inaccessible by road. After all one cannot, without an enormous detour get from just N of Manchester to Beaumaris by road without going through Conwy. AIUI they're intending to visit next week.
There was a similar question on 5 live yesterday. Apparently Anglesey is not in the restricted area, so fine to go and stay. At least it was fine yesterday...🙄
They cannot get there as most authorities from the border are closed to traffic coming in from England
Interesting act of crass moral cowardice by the management of the Tate Modern, and their friends.
Meeting the "real urgencies of the moment" by running away from the debate..
"We recognize that the world we live in is very different from the one in which we first began to collaborate on this project five years ago. The racial justice movement that started in the U.S. and radiated to countries around the world, in addition to challenges of a global health crisis, have led us to pause.
As museum directors, we have a responsibility to meet the very real urgencies of the moment. We feel it is necessary to reframe our programming and, in this case, step back, and bring in additional perspectives and voices to shape how we present Guston's work to our public. That process will take time." https://www.nga.gov/press/exh/5235.html
In South Wales it seemed to begin with holiday makers importing the virus back from the greek islands.
My sources told me in early August that the Princess of Wales Hospital in Bridgend was all set for an increased workload three weeks after the schools went back, and here we are three weeks after the schools went back...
Not that I am advocating shutting schools, just saying.
One thing I've disagreed with this government on is I think it was a bad idea to encourage holidays during a pandemic. I think everyone who went abroad during a pandemic should be expected to quarantine upon re-entering the UK, no 'safe countries' or 'corridor' exceptions whatsoever.
That EU decision is just as likely to result in significant onshoring of capability in the UK for the domestic and high-end export market whilst being less good for the mass-export market to the EU, which is more globally incestuous and relies on lower margins and effeciencies of scale worldwide.
Funny the detractors don't point this out like the PWC report did but Faisal gonna Faisal.
Alok Sharma, the thinking man's Gillian Keegan is on Radio 4 now. A bit tetchy with Martha Kearney.
If one needs to know the rules, go on line, is Mr Sharma's go to statement.
Actually that is the best advice any politician can give
Here in Conwy CBC we were instructed to go into lockdown tonight and everyone I know and on social media spoke about Conwy web site that provides all the information that is necessary
We are not allowed to cross into another authority's area apart from for work, we are not allowed to leave to go away on holiday, and those on holiday here must go home
My hometown of Llandudno was just recovering and now Mark Drakeford has slammed the door on our hotels and guest houses
I have relations with a holiday caravan on Anglesey. They live in Lancashire. I assume that the caravan is now inaccessible by road. After all one cannot, without an enormous detour get from just N of Manchester to Beaumaris by road without going through Conwy. AIUI they're intending to visit next week.
Exactly
They will not even be able to reach Conwy CBC let alone Anglesey
Do you really want infected people from the North West of England coughing all over you on their way to their North Wales holiday homes?
Of course not but we are now cut off from England and that is going to annoy a lot of people, especially those living near the border
If it means you remain uninfected, I say "annoy away"!
I have not seen Gwent police blocking the Severn Bridges, so I expect, despite what Drakeford has implied, people from Chester can shop in Wrexham, and vice-versa.
Tickles me how few people realise the car industry as we know it is already dead, particularly the cross border supply chains for a technology that will be phased out completely in short order.
Yes, but where are the new car and battery plants being built ? Not here.
The new electric Jaguar XJ is going to be built in the UK. I mean, it'll be fucking garbage but it'll be built in the UK.
True, but not exactly mass market. A few years time, our car industry could easily be a fraction of its current size.
Really quite scary for the North East. I hope the government doesn’t underestimate how important the Sunderland factory is for the entire region.
Well, they were warned, but voted for Brexit anyway. I have limited sympathy.
Plenty of people in Sunderland and the wider North East voted to stay in the EU...
Nandy nails it. It’s sad to see ministers compromise themselves in this way. If the government expects us to do X, then it should know what X is. Especially if it will fine us for not doing it.
This is not hard or controversial.
I very much doubt Nandy knows the specific details of the various lockdowns across the UK
But she is not in government, so it is not as important that she is as clueless as. Johnson, Keegan and Sharma not understanding what is going on is far more worrying.
Nandy nails it. It’s sad to see ministers compromise themselves in this way. If the government expects us to do X, then it should know what X is. Especially if it will fine us for not doing it.
This is not hard or controversial.
I very much doubt Nandy knows the specific details of the various lockdowns across the UK
If Nandy was a government minister, responsible and accountable for a law that impacts the civil liberties of millions, I would expect her to know the law and explain why the measures were necessary. That would doubly be the case if she opted to go on to a national news programme at the moment the laws we’re coming into effect.
This is not hard or controversial.
So if you are an opposition mp advising your constituents you do not need to be over the detail
If we are being honest the details are complex and variable depending where you live in the UK with lots of anomalies
It is true however, that the individual area requirements are laid out in detail on the local authorities website sites for reference
Nice whataboutery. Let’s start with the basics. Should government ministers be able to understand and explain the laws they are making when they interrupt the civil liberties of millions?
Simple question.
No. The MOT test is an infringement of my right to do as I like with my own property. Do you expect the PM to know off the top of his head the revised limit on the headlamp aim test for pre-2014 registrations?
That’s a really weak argument. Well done. Citizens are supposed to follow the rules directly. MOT testers are trained to test regulations.
This is not some arcane point of detail, but a restriction of civil liberties impacting millions.
So, what's the permitted tyre tread depth? No looking up, no conferring. Not (just) an MOT item, applies every time you drive.
Alok Sharma, the thinking man's Gillian Keegan is on Radio 4 now. A bit tetchy with Martha Kearney.
If one needs to know the rules, go on line, is Mr Sharma's go to statement.
Actually that is the best advice any politician can give
Here in Conwy CBC we were instructed to go into lockdown tonight and everyone I know and on social media spoke about Conwy web site that provides all the information that is necessary
We are not allowed to cross into another authority's area apart from for work, we are not allowed to leave to go away on holiday, and those on holiday here must go home
My hometown of Llandudno was just recovering and now Mark Drakeford has slammed the door on our hotels and guest houses
I have relations with a holiday caravan on Anglesey. They live in Lancashire. I assume that the caravan is now inaccessible by road. After all one cannot, without an enormous detour get from just N of Manchester to Beaumaris by road without going through Conwy. AIUI they're intending to visit next week.
Exactly
They will not even be able to reach Conwy CBC let alone Anglesey
Do you really want infected people from the North West of England coughing all over you on their way to their North Wales holiday homes?
Of course not but we are now cut off from England and that is going to annoy a lot of people, especially those living near the border
If it means you remain uninfected, I say "annoy away"!
I have not seen Gwent police blocking the Severn Bridges, so I expect, despite what Drakeford has implied, people from Chester can shop in Wrexham, and vice-versa.
Wrexham is absolutely a no go area and as it is virtually on the border I expect we will see police on the border stopping cars yet again
Alok Sharma, the thinking man's Gillian Keegan is on Radio 4 now. A bit tetchy with Martha Kearney.
If one needs to know the rules, go on line, is Mr Sharma's go to statement.
Actually that is the best advice any politician can give
Here in Conwy CBC we were instructed to go into lockdown tonight and everyone I know and on social media spoke about Conwy web site that provides all the information that is necessary
We are not allowed to cross into another authority's area apart from for work, we are not allowed to leave to go away on holiday, and those on holiday here must go home
My hometown of Llandudno was just recovering and now Mark Drakeford has slammed the door on our hotels and guest houses
And yet up stream you have pointed out how bad things are in Wales with a massive outbreak at the Royal Glamorgan Hospital.
The Welsh Government can be criticised for being rubbish because they are closing down hospitality to stem the virus, or they are rubbish because they haven't closed Welsh Counties down quick enough to stem the infection rate. It can't be both, it has to be one or the other.
You could reasonably argue that the government should have done something else - perhaps improve test, trace, isolate - which would control the virus without closing down hospitality.
And indeed that's recently been my criticism of the Johnson and Sturgeon governments. May as well add Drakeford (and Foster) for the complete set.
In South Wales it seemed to begin with holiday makers importing the virus back from the greek islands.
My sources told me in early August that the Princess of Wales Hospital in Bridgend was all set for an increased workload three weeks after the schools went back, and here we are three weeks after the schools went back...
Not that I am advocating shutting schools, just saying.
One thing I've disagreed with this government on is I think it was a bad idea to encourage holidays during a pandemic. I think everyone who went abroad during a pandemic should be expected to quarantine upon re-entering the UK, no 'safe countries' or 'corridor' exceptions whatsoever.
Utter madness.
Like the guy in Bolton who was aware he had contracted Covid, but still went out on the lash in the town visiting many pubs.
There should be five levels of restrictions deployable across the country from total to none. Each level clearly explained, understood and the penalties known. Then you can move between the levels depending on the circumstances. The mess created by these multitude of different regulations by council area will result in them not being followed.
So today I have my first "face-to-face" lectures. I will be required to wear a mask the entire time and sit 2m away from my fellow students.
However if I chat to my fellow students outside the building afterwards I risk being thrown out of university, as we are required to follow not just the laws, but also the guidelines, that state no outdoor socialising with those outside my household.
Alok Sharma, the thinking man's Gillian Keegan is on Radio 4 now. A bit tetchy with Martha Kearney.
If one needs to know the rules, go on line, is Mr Sharma's go to statement.
Actually that is the best advice any politician can give
Here in Conwy CBC we were instructed to go into lockdown tonight and everyone I know and on social media spoke about Conwy web site that provides all the information that is necessary
We are not allowed to cross into another authority's area apart from for work, we are not allowed to leave to go away on holiday, and those on holiday here must go home
My hometown of Llandudno was just recovering and now Mark Drakeford has slammed the door on our hotels and guest houses
And yet up stream you have pointed out how bad things are in Wales with a massive outbreak at the Royal Glamorgan Hospital.
The Welsh Government can be criticised for being rubbish because they are closing down hospitality to stem the virus, or they are rubbish because they haven't closed Welsh Counties down quick enough to stem the infection rate. It can't be both, it has to be one or the other.
You could reasonably argue that the government should have done something else - perhaps improve test, trace, isolate - which would control the virus without closing down hospitality.
And indeed that's recently been my criticism of the Johnson and Sturgeon governments. May as well add Drakeford (and Foster) for the complete set.
I am quite happy to add Drakeford to the useless column.
Nandy nails it. It’s sad to see ministers compromise themselves in this way. If the government expects us to do X, then it should know what X is. Especially if it will fine us for not doing it.
This is not hard or controversial.
I very much doubt Nandy knows the specific details of the various lockdowns across the UK
But she is not in government, so it is not as important that she is as clueless as. Johnson, Keegan and Sharma not understanding what is going on is far more worrying.
Nandy nails it. It’s sad to see ministers compromise themselves in this way. If the government expects us to do X, then it should know what X is. Especially if it will fine us for not doing it.
This is not hard or controversial.
I very much doubt Nandy knows the specific details of the various lockdowns across the UK
If Nandy was a government minister, responsible and accountable for a law that impacts the civil liberties of millions, I would expect her to know the law and explain why the measures were necessary. That would doubly be the case if she opted to go on to a national news programme at the moment the laws we’re coming into effect.
This is not hard or controversial.
So if you are an opposition mp advising your constituents you do not need to be over the detail
If we are being honest the details are complex and variable depending where you live in the UK with lots of anomalies
It is true however, that the individual area requirements are laid out in detail on the local authorities website sites for reference
Nice whataboutery. Let’s start with the basics. Should government ministers be able to understand and explain the laws they are making when they interrupt the civil liberties of millions?
Simple question.
No. The MOT test is an infringement of my right to do as I like with my own property. Do you expect the PM to know off the top of his head the revised limit on the headlamp aim test for pre-2014 registrations?
That’s a really weak argument. Well done. Citizens are supposed to follow the rules directly. MOT testers are trained to test regulations.
This is not some arcane point of detail, but a restriction of civil liberties impacting millions.
So, what's the permitted tyre tread depth? No looking up, no conferring. Not (just) an MOT item, applies every time you drive.
On the USA election. I'm really grateful to all those on here who have taught me so much about USA politics; I confess that until fairly recently I didn't know enough, but I now feel well informed. So here's my take, having listened to the debate last night.
In 2008 the USA elected its first African-American president. A man who, whatever one thought of his politics, was clearly decent, intelligent and thoughtful. This felt like real progress at the time; a country coming to terms with the modern world.
Roll on to 2020, and it's possible (though unlikely) that they will re-elect an unintelligent, racist, misogynistic bigoted bully for the second time. (Among a multitude of sins, the fact that the USA has such a dreadful record on Covid for a wealthy country should be enough to finish him off.) And even if they don't elect Trump, his opponent, although a decent man, is unlikely to make a good, let along great, president. Hopefully, Trump's playground bully performance last night will alienate more undecided voters than it will seduce. Bu even if he loses, the fact that around 45% of voters will support him speaks to me of a deep malaise at the heart of the USA.
This is a country that has gone backwards since 2008, not forwards. It is depressing, especially given the importance of the USA on the global stage.
Spot on but sadly Johnson and Cummings are doing their best to carry on Trump's legacy of lying
In South Wales it seemed to begin with holiday makers importing the virus back from the greek islands.
My sources told me in early August that the Princess of Wales Hospital in Bridgend was all set for an increased workload three weeks after the schools went back, and here we are three weeks after the schools went back...
Not that I am advocating shutting schools, just saying.
Are South Walians wilder on holiday than others ?
It seems to be Wales, Lancashire and the NE where infection is now in the general community.
With infection in the rest of the country concentrated only in student and Asian areas.
For what it is worth here is my opinion of last night:
I went to bed after 1 hour. I could not take it anymore. It was awful, but I couldn't decide who had won. Relieved to see the reviews this morning.
Chris Wallace: Appalling, but what could he do? At one point I thought he was about to get out of his seat and shout at Trump. I saw one review that compared it to being hit in the face by a frying pan for 90 min.
Biden: Whenever he actually got a word in edgeways it was bumbling. The one thing I did like was him looking in to the camera to make pleas to the audience at home. That worked well.
Trump: Just lied constantly and acted like a bully. No debating. And constantly dominating both the time and Biden/Wallace. I was concerned this might make him look strong and Biden weak, but that doesn't seem to be the view this morning, thankfully.
Alok Sharma, the thinking man's Gillian Keegan is on Radio 4 now. A bit tetchy with Martha Kearney.
If one needs to know the rules, go on line, is Mr Sharma's go to statement.
Actually that is the best advice any politician can give
Here in Conwy CBC we were instructed to go into lockdown tonight and everyone I know and on social media spoke about Conwy web site that provides all the information that is necessary
We are not allowed to cross into another authority's area apart from for work, we are not allowed to leave to go away on holiday, and those on holiday here must go home
My hometown of Llandudno was just recovering and now Mark Drakeford has slammed the door on our hotels and guest houses
I have relations with a holiday caravan on Anglesey. They live in Lancashire. I assume that the caravan is now inaccessible by road. After all one cannot, without an enormous detour get from just N of Manchester to Beaumaris by road without going through Conwy. AIUI they're intending to visit next week.
Exactly
They will not even be able to reach Conwy CBC let alone Anglesey
Do you really want infected people from the North West of England coughing all over you on their way to their North Wales holiday homes?
Of course not but we are now cut off from England and that is going to annoy a lot of people, especially those living near the border
If it means you remain uninfected, I say "annoy away"!
I have not seen Gwent police blocking the Severn Bridges, so I expect, despite what Drakeford has implied, people from Chester can shop in Wrexham, and vice-versa.
Wrexham is absolutely a no go area and as it is virtually on the border I expect we will see police on the border stopping cars yet again
Well I am leaving for Newport now, so I can update you on police presence on the borders of lockdown counties later.
Nandy nails it. It’s sad to see ministers compromise themselves in this way. If the government expects us to do X, then it should know what X is. Especially if it will fine us for not doing it.
This is not hard or controversial.
I very much doubt Nandy knows the specific details of the various lockdowns across the UK
But she is not in government, so it is not as important that she is as clueless as. Johnson, Keegan and Sharma not understanding what is going on is far more worrying.
Nandy nails it. It’s sad to see ministers compromise themselves in this way. If the government expects us to do X, then it should know what X is. Especially if it will fine us for not doing it.
This is not hard or controversial.
I very much doubt Nandy knows the specific details of the various lockdowns across the UK
If Nandy was a government minister, responsible and accountable for a law that impacts the civil liberties of millions, I would expect her to know the law and explain why the measures were necessary. That would doubly be the case if she opted to go on to a national news programme at the moment the laws we’re coming into effect.
This is not hard or controversial.
So if you are an opposition mp advising your constituents you do not need to be over the detail
If we are being honest the details are complex and variable depending where you live in the UK with lots of anomalies
It is true however, that the individual area requirements are laid out in detail on the local authorities website sites for reference
Nice whataboutery. Let’s start with the basics. Should government ministers be able to understand and explain the laws they are making when they interrupt the civil liberties of millions?
Simple question.
No. The MOT test is an infringement of my right to do as I like with my own property. Do you expect the PM to know off the top of his head the revised limit on the headlamp aim test for pre-2014 registrations?
That’s a really weak argument. Well done. Citizens are supposed to follow the rules directly. MOT testers are trained to test regulations.
This is not some arcane point of detail, but a restriction of civil liberties impacting millions.
So, what's the permitted tyre tread depth? No looking up, no conferring. Not (just) an MOT item, applies every time you drive.
When you’re in a whole stop digging.
FWIW I think is 1.6mm, but you really shouldn’t go that low. A motorist should know that. Government ministers should know their policy.
Comments
CBS collects all its polling under a Battleground Tracker section. Weird.
https://today.yougov.com/topics/politics/articles-reports/2020/09/30/first-presidential-debate-poll
My hope is that he has so pissed off the Pentagon and the top brass and retired generals like 'Mad Dog' that the military will rapidly put paid to any Trump militia taking to the streets after/if he loses.
Problem is if the militia wreck the actual voting process on the day.
https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1311207296098357248
Not here.
I am just doing what seems sensible now, and discrete.
I would hope for that too but America is America not you and me. Trump will lose I expect because he's been a terrible President, not because he's a white supremacist.
Here in Conwy CBC we were instructed to go into lockdown tonight and everyone I know and on social media spoke about Conwy web site that provides all the information that is necessary
We are not allowed to cross into another authority's area apart from for work, we are not allowed to leave to go away on holiday, and those on holiday here must go home
My hometown of Llandudno was just recovering and now Mark Drakeford has slammed the door on our hotels and guest houses
This is not hard or controversial.
What actual planet do these people live on?
This is not hard or controversial.
Priti's penal colony on Ascension Island getting an airing on Radio 4. The Ascension Island resident is not impressed.
The target of blame whenever the government wants to distract from it's own failings.
"It will be tougher for many in Westminster to swallow than the subsidised food, but it increasingly looks as if the August Eat Out to Help Out scheme (EOTHO) was a costly economic and public health mistake.
Evidence now suggests that restaurants are important vectors in our current case uptick. More than that, the scheme has entrenched dining behaviours that threaten more transmission today. It is bizarre then that Rishi Sunak has avoided more critical scrutiny of the policy."
https://www.conservativehome.com/thecolumnists/2020/09/ryan-bourne-its-time-to-admit-eat-out-to-help-out-was-a-mistake.html
The worry is that because Ministers seem at sea over the detail and the medias love gotcha moments, the perception is that the rules are messy and unclear. And that IS objectively stupid and not in anyone's interest at all.
If we are being honest the details are complex and variable depending where you live in the UK with lots of anomalies
It is true however, that the individual area requirements are laid out in detail on the local authorities website sites for reference
It seems pretty unworkable but I suppose the idea is to reduce rather than eliminate different households meeting.
Simple question.
Royal Glamorgan sees a major outbreak of covid cases after 82 cases confirmed
Service restrictions implemented
So anyway - as expected Donald Trump came over as unelectable for another term because he palpably is.
Out to 2.5 now. Quite a big move. Is the penny dropping? I sense it might be.
But let's see the next few days polling. Trump with a 3 handle unless he cuts into the deficit soon.
AIUI they're intending to visit next week.
Not just because you should never trust politicians to know the details but because in the current situation rules can change frequently.
A few years time, our car industry could easily be a fraction of its current size.
The original Brexit deal negotiated by former PM Theresa May contained a route to minimise checks on what are known as "rules of origin".
That option was removed as part of the revision to the withdrawal agreement a year ago. But Lord Frost points out that the UK and EU27 car industries have jointly asked for such arrangements, including special consideration for electric vehicle exports.
Good job.
Drakeford changes rules almost daily, and as I have reported elsewhere, our only source of information is on Conwy's web site
The government minister going on national media should be able to explain this stuff. No ifs, no buts.
The Welsh Government can be criticised for being rubbish because they are closing down hospitality to stem the virus, or they are rubbish because they haven't closed Welsh Counties down quick enough to stem the infection rate. It can't be both, it has to be one or the other.
They will not even be able to reach Conwy CBC let alone Anglesey
https://twitter.com/danidonovan/status/1311178858117435394
Sometimes when someone looks like they're losing, it's because they're losing.
This is not some arcane point of detail, but a restriction of civil liberties impacting millions.
Sounds like it was terrible.
My sources told me in early August that the Princess of Wales Hospital in Bridgend was all set for an increased workload three weeks after the schools went back, and here we are three weeks after the schools went back...
Not that I am advocating shutting schools, just saying.
They are both not an aberration in an otherwise seamless liberal internationalist nirvana. But they reflect deep cultural and political concerns amongst the electorate at large.
Like the Bourbons since the Left-modernists and liberals are incapable of learning any lessons from this whatsoever - whilst forgetting nothing - we will certainly repeat the experience.
If it was all just guidance these questions wouldn’t matter - the Govt would be perfectly justified in responding - “if you are confused apply common sense and err on the side of caution”.
But it’s not it’s the law, backed up by significant potential penalties for non compliance.
What’s more, understanding the anomalies matters, because in many cases they are deliberate under the policy of “trade offs” ie. clamp down hard on virus spreading activities to allow some leniency in activities which help businesses and the economy, children’s’ education etc. We are allowed to go to pubs and restaurants because, ultimately the Govt wants pubs and restaurants to remain viable businesses. So knowing what we can do in them matters. We are under no responsibility nor encouragement, if we are not sure, to just stay at home.
He said "Will just shut up man" "Yap yap"
I watched it live.
Biden was trying to be presidential but his patience was tried. He did well to keep his temper. Trump acted like quote "a poop-throwing toodler". Trump is subservient to Putin, Xi and Kim who I suspect despise him.
In 2008 the USA elected its first African-American president. A man who, whatever one thought of his politics, was clearly decent, intelligent and thoughtful. This felt like real progress at the time; a country coming to terms with the modern world.
Roll on to 2020, and it's possible (though unlikely) that they will re-elect an unintelligent, racist, misogynistic bigoted bully for the second time. (Among a multitude of sins, the fact that the USA has such a dreadful record on Covid for a wealthy country should be enough to finish him off.) And even if they don't elect Trump, his opponent, although a decent man, is unlikely to make a good, let along great, president. Hopefully, Trump's playground bully performance last night will alienate more undecided voters than it will seduce. Bu even if he loses, the fact that around 45% of voters will support him speaks to me of a deep malaise at the heart of the USA.
This is a country that has gone backwards since 2008, not forwards. It is depressing, especially given the importance of the USA on the global stage.
Meeting the "real urgencies of the moment" by running away from the debate..
"We recognize that the world we live in is very different from the one in which we first began to collaborate on this project five years ago. The racial justice movement that started in the U.S. and radiated to countries around the world, in addition to challenges of a global health crisis, have led us to pause.
As museum directors, we have a responsibility to meet the very real urgencies of the moment. We feel it is necessary to reframe our programming and, in this case, step back, and bring in additional perspectives and voices to shape how we present Guston's work to our public. That process will take time."
https://www.nga.gov/press/exh/5235.html
Funny the detractors don't point this out like the PWC report did but Faisal gonna Faisal.
I have not seen Gwent police blocking the Severn Bridges, so I expect, despite what Drakeford has implied, people from Chester can shop in Wrexham, and vice-versa.
And indeed that's recently been my criticism of the Johnson and Sturgeon governments. May as well add Drakeford (and Foster) for the complete set.
Like the guy in Bolton who was aware he had contracted Covid, but still went out on the lash in the town visiting many pubs.
However if I chat to my fellow students outside the building afterwards I risk being thrown out of university, as we are required to follow not just the laws, but also the guidelines, that state no outdoor socialising with those outside my household.
Cool.
Lack of social distancing and irresponsible behaviour plays a big part
It seems to be Wales, Lancashire and the NE where infection is now in the general community.
With infection in the rest of the country concentrated only in student and Asian areas.
I went to bed after 1 hour. I could not take it anymore. It was awful, but I couldn't decide who had won. Relieved to see the reviews this morning.
Chris Wallace: Appalling, but what could he do? At one point I thought he was about to get out of his seat and shout at Trump. I saw one review that compared it to being hit in the face by a frying pan for 90 min.
Biden: Whenever he actually got a word in edgeways it was bumbling. The one thing I did like was him looking in to the camera to make pleas to the audience at home. That worked well.
Trump: Just lied constantly and acted like a bully. No debating. And constantly dominating both the time and Biden/Wallace. I was concerned this might make him look strong and Biden weak, but that doesn't seem to be the view this morning, thankfully.
FWIW I think is 1.6mm, but you really shouldn’t go that low. A motorist should know that. Government ministers should know their policy.