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A problem about enforcement remains Johnson’s failure to do anything about the Cummings lockdown bre

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  • Options
    LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221

    LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Apparently the cut-off time in Wales and Northern Ireland is going to be 11pm, not 10pm.

    This stuff is just pathetic signalling that devolved regions has some powers. It does nothing to really change public health outcomes.
    It's not trivial at all. The busy final hour from ten to eleven can mean profit or loss for a pub or restaurant. Welsh pubs are more likely to survive the winter.

    Once again IT'S NOT A FINAL HOUR – the laws preventing pubs opening beyond 11pm were removed years ago. Fifteen years ago.

    Why do PBers repeat this fiction that pubs have to close at 11pm?

    https://life.spectator.co.uk/articles/longer-opening-hours-were-a-complete-success-how-did-the-experts-get-it-so-wrong/

    Er, it will be the final hour now, won't it? 10-11. That is my point.

    I'm not a stranger to pubs, I am aware the licensing laws were liberalised many years ago.
    Well the final hour now (in England) will be 9-10pm, but perhaps I am accusing you unfairly. I do recognise that you are generally expert on the sector.

    It comes from frustration with PBers general knowledge about pubs – I recall several threadettes passim based on the entirely false premise that pubs normally close at 11pm (perhaps these PBers all live in the sticks, or never actually attend pubs at all?)
    Fair enough. My point is that people are very used to drinking when they like now, since the laws were liberalised. If chucking out time is 10 that means last orders will be 9.30. It's going to be distinctly odd and not welcomed.

    Meanwhile over in Wales the publicans have an extra final hour of business to try and make a profit. That's gonna annoy English publicans.

    It will also be interesting to see how this effects pubs on the Anglo-Welsh border. There will be people running across the River Wye at Tintern to get an extra hour of boozing.
    That's very true – there are indeed a few border towns / villages where the frontier runs through the middle of the centre.
    There used to be just such an anomaly in Holborn, near the City. Ely Place. The Mitre tavern (a brilliant old pub) was technically an enclave of Cambridgeshire (because it was owned by the Bishop of Ely) so it had more relaxed closing times than London pubs, for a while. People used to flock there for an extra hour of ale.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,927
    "Lock us up!"
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,927
    The Lib Dems are looking to be the opposition to the Westminster consensus - good on them
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,985
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    LadyG said:

    MaxPB said:

    Predictions of a V-shape recovery looking unlikely

    Boris just killed it.

    Also I just remembered you wanted predictions, this is what we had pencilled in before July figures came out:

    July 7.1%
    August 7.2%
    September 2.1%

    Final Q -1.3%

    Economy compared to Feb - 96.1%

    New projections

    July 6.6% (actual)
    August 7.7%
    September 0.9%

    Final Q -0.8%

    Economy compared to Feb - 95.1%

    Obviously this is all horribly out of date given the latest measures. 😭
    A second wave was always likely to sweep away your optimism. Sadly. Respiratory viruses have second waves.

    My initial predictions were for a GDP loss of 10-15% over the year. 20% if the health service went into meltdown.

    10% looks about right, at the mo. But we may bounce back vigorously next year.
    The government's incompetence has led to the second wave. Rubbish quarantine policy, rubbish isolation policy and halting of testing expansion in July is why wer are where we are. All of those are domestic issues. The second wave is on Boris and and the c***.
    So all the other countries in Europe having a second wave?
    They aren't island nations.

    Also they made the same mistakes and are just as incompetent. France especially so.
    I'd say the Spanish decision to re-open nightclubs was the dumbest single move. (And the fact that they kept them open in Ibiza two weeks after closing them down in the rest of Spain.)
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,274

    I'm basically going to subscribe to Tesco Wine Club and spend the next six months getting battered.

    I'd recommend Laithwaites – absolutely superb service and algorithms that work.

    More impressively, the saleswomen actually know about wine.
    Yes, I have just taken my WSET Level 2 wine exam with laithwaites, now offered entirely online, and await the results. They are a good company. Some of their budget price wines however are pretty ordinary.
  • Options
    LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221
    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    LadyG said:

    MaxPB said:

    Predictions of a V-shape recovery looking unlikely

    Boris just killed it.

    Also I just remembered you wanted predictions, this is what we had pencilled in before July figures came out:

    July 7.1%
    August 7.2%
    September 2.1%

    Final Q -1.3%

    Economy compared to Feb - 96.1%

    New projections

    July 6.6% (actual)
    August 7.7%
    September 0.9%

    Final Q -0.8%

    Economy compared to Feb - 95.1%

    Obviously this is all horribly out of date given the latest measures. 😭
    A second wave was always likely to sweep away your optimism. Sadly. Respiratory viruses have second waves.

    My initial predictions were for a GDP loss of 10-15% over the year. 20% if the health service went into meltdown.

    10% looks about right, at the mo. But we may bounce back vigorously next year.
    The government's incompetence has led to the second wave. Rubbish quarantine policy, rubbish isolation policy and halting of testing expansion in July is why wer are where we are. All of those are domestic issues. The second wave is on Boris and and the c***.
    So all the other countries in Europe having a second wave?
    They aren't island nations.

    Also they made the same mistakes and are just as incompetent. France especially so.
    I'd say the Spanish decision to re-open nightclubs was the dumbest single move. (And the fact that they kept them open in Ibiza two weeks after closing them down in the rest of Spain.)
    No, Britain keeping open the airports, with nice direct flights from Wuhan, until about June, was even stupider.
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    The situation is worse in Scotland. The positivity rate is 7.6% That's why they have more severe rules, because they have lost more control.

    Nicola Sturgeon has lost control more than Boris Johnson. There's incompetence and then there's that.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited September 2020
    Meanwhile, the Assembly Rooms in Bath were named due to the city's connections to the wider colonial and slave economies during the 18th Century.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8759219/National-Trust-accused-rewriting-history-property-list-shame-colonial-links.html

    If that is your standard, I could have saved the National Trust time, effort and money and simply said rewritten every old building in the UK is linked to slavery, the empire or something else that is now deemed inappropriate. Full Stop.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,992
    edited September 2020

    Banning people from seeing each other is incredibly draconian. It's arguably acceptable as an emergency public health measure, though you can make the case that it's not right for a democratic government to forbid it by law, rather than advise it, but after six months it's a massive failure for a government to have to resort to it again.

    Absolutely massive failure.

    By any sane measure the situation is worse now in Scotland than anywhere else in Britain or Ireland. How long can the SNP retain the confidence of the Scottish public?

    Yes this could be Sturgeon's dementia tax or poll tax if it is seen as being done unnecessarily, as May found it does not matter how big your poll lead one disastrously unpopular policy can see it disappear overnight
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    LadyG said:

    MaxPB said:

    Predictions of a V-shape recovery looking unlikely

    Boris just killed it.

    Also I just remembered you wanted predictions, this is what we had pencilled in before July figures came out:

    July 7.1%
    August 7.2%
    September 2.1%

    Final Q -1.3%

    Economy compared to Feb - 96.1%

    New projections

    July 6.6% (actual)
    August 7.7%
    September 0.9%

    Final Q -0.8%

    Economy compared to Feb - 95.1%

    Obviously this is all horribly out of date given the latest measures. 😭
    A second wave was always likely to sweep away your optimism. Sadly. Respiratory viruses have second waves.

    My initial predictions were for a GDP loss of 10-15% over the year. 20% if the health service went into meltdown.

    10% looks about right, at the mo. But we may bounce back vigorously next year.
    The government's incompetence has led to the second wave. Rubbish quarantine policy, rubbish isolation policy and halting of testing expansion in July is why wer are where we are. All of those are domestic issues. The second wave is on Boris and and the c***.
    So all the other countries in Europe having a second wave?
    They aren't island nations.

    Also they made the same mistakes and are just as incompetent. France especially so.
    I'd say the Spanish decision to re-open nightclubs was the dumbest single move. (And the fact that they kept them open in Ibiza two weeks after closing them down in the rest of Spain.)
    No, I think our quarantine and travel policies are worse, on that note, did you see my email?
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,280
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:
    I cannot imagine banning all visits to other households going down too well with Scots
    They're not: [edit]: all banned I mean. Quite a few exceptions.

    https://twitter.com/theSNP/status/1308400564296978432
    What is an extended household? Can I go to the house of my daughter and her partner? Can my wife still take her mum to church and help her in with anything she buys whilst out?
    To answer your questions:
    1) A household, plus one person (or a single parent and their children) living alone;
    2) No, assuming your wife lives with you - you do not live alone;
    3) Yes, if your mother-in-law lives alone.
    I admire your confidence. No doubt the regulations will be published sometime. Although publishing laws before they come into force is so last year, really.
    Actually I am not sure that your confidence was well placed. The current Health regulations include this definition:
    “extended household” means two households—
    (a)which have chosen to be treated as a single household, and
    (b)do not already form part of another extended household,"

    So if my daughter and partner choose to be treated as a single household with us (lord knows how, maybe an affidavit?) then would be a single household and they could come here and vice versa.
  • Options
    MaxPB said:

    Predictions of a V-shape recovery looking unlikely

    Boris just killed it.

    Also I just remembered you wanted predictions, this is what we had pencilled in before July figures came out:

    July 7.1%
    August 7.2%
    September 2.1%

    Final Q -1.3%

    Economy compared to Feb - 96.1%

    New projections

    July 6.6% (actual)
    August 7.7%
    September 0.9%

    Final Q -0.8%

    Economy compared to Feb - 95.1%

    Obviously this is all horribly out of date given the latest measures. 😭
    Thanks for coming through, I always knew you would. Interesting stuff as always from you, Max.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,718
    DavidL said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:
    I cannot imagine banning all visits to other households going down too well with Scots
    They're not: [edit]: all banned I mean. Quite a few exceptions.

    https://twitter.com/theSNP/status/1308400564296978432
    What is an extended household? Can I go to the house of my daughter and her partner? Can my wife still take her mum to church and help her in with anything she buys whilst out?
    'Extended household' has been in usage for quite a long time. You're just being mischievous - you're too intellogent to be otherwise.
  • Options
    DAlexanderDAlexander Posts: 815
    edited September 2020
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    LadyG said:

    Cyclefree said:

    This is what the French government is doing.

    “Victor Mallet in Paris JUNE 8 2020


    France’s “temporary unemployment” scheme to avert mass bankruptcies and lay-offs as a result of the coronavirus crisis will be extended, and is now expected to last up to two years, the country’s labour minister said.
    ....................
    Muriel Pénicaud, the labour minister, said that at the end of April some 8.6m employees were benefiting from the French scheme, under which the state pays subsidies to companies to fund the salaries of those prevented from working.

    “We are going to put in place a long-term partial-activity scheme,” Ms Pénicaud told Franceinfo radio, “through which employees could have fewer working hours and be partly supported by the state.” The scheme “is likely to last a year or two,” she added.
    .........................

    Ms Pénicaud did not say what share of wages the French government would continue to pay — currently 84-100 per cent of net salary for the lower paid — but that this was under discussion with employers and trade unions. She also said the government would make 50,000 inspections before the end of the summer to detect and punish fraudulent use of the scheme.
    .............

    “I think it makes sense even if the fiscal cost is going to be huge,” said Gilles Moec, Axa chief economist.
    .........................“


    See here for rest of article - https://www.ft.com/content/63b33ede-4463-4342-845a-26cf85a91d3d

    Two years.

    European governments are going to end up with debts like Japan. ~200% of GDP
    And just like Japan, all the debt will be owed to the Central Bank.
    Not sure a 30 year slow grinding reduction in the quality of life is something to aim for, especially for a bad case of the sniffles.
    Japan has the best growth in output per hour worked in the developed world over the past decade.

    The problem they have is that they have a diminishing number of people of working age looking after an ever greater number of retirees.

    That's something that Italy already struggles with, and that much of the EU will suffer from over the next few decades.
    I've never heard of the measure "output per hour worked" before if I'm honest. I'm not 100% sure what it is.

    But maybe not too surprising as the young workers there are flogging themselves to death and have no time for children of their own to support both the large number of old people and the national debt there.
    The Japanese government spends next to nothing on supporting the national debt as (1) half all JGBs are owned by the BOJ (which remits interest payments back to the government), and (2) 10 year JGB yields at 0.4%. In other words, the net debt service of the Japanese government is lower than in the UK.

    Japan's problem is simple:

    - low total fertility rate
    - high life expectancy

    That combination is something that pretty much all developed world governments have to deal with.
    I imagine the destruction of wealth for workers caused by government printing hasn't helped matters and has caused a reduction in the fertility rate.
  • Options
    HYUFD said:

    Banning people from seeing each other is incredibly draconian. It's arguably acceptable as an emergency public health measure, though you can make the case that it's not right for a democratic government to forbid it by law, rather than advise it, but after six months it's a massive failure for a government to have to resort to it again.

    Absolutely massive failure.

    By any sane measure the situation is worse now in Scotland than anywhere else in Britain or Ireland. How long can the SNP retain the confidence of the Scottish public?

    Yes this could be Sturgeon's dementia tax or poll tax if it is seen as being done unnecessarily, as May found it does not matter how big your poll lead one disastrously unpopular policy can see it disappear overnight
    If some-one has the courage to oppose it.
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,965
    Police not happy. Use of military "Not needed or asked for."
    Hands up who wants to guard a power station or bust someone visiting their elderly parents?
  • Options
    Republicans have secured the numbers needed to ensure that President Trump's Supreme Court nominee will face a confirmation vote in the Senate.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-54254141
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,718

    The situation is worse in Scotland. The positivity rate is 7.6% That's why they have more severe rules, because they have lost more control.

    Nicola Sturgeon has lost control more than Boris Johnson. There's incompetence and then there's that.

    Depends on the nature of testing. Different testing regime in Scotland, possibly more focussed on risk areas.
  • Options

    Meanwhile, the Assembly Rooms in Bath were named due to the city's connections to the wider colonial and slave economies during the 18th Century.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8759219/National-Trust-accused-rewriting-history-property-list-shame-colonial-links.html

    If that is your standard, I could have saved the National Trust time, effort and money and simply said rewritten every old building in the UK is linked to slavery, the empire or something else that is now deemed inappropriate. Full Stop.

    Incredible that simply providing a factual record of what happened in the past is now labelled "rewriting history". As a NT member I am really happy that they've done this work. I always like to know as much as possible about the history of the places we visit, although obviously I am mostly there for the cream teas.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited September 2020
    dixiedean said:

    Police not happy. Use of military "Not needed or asked for."
    Hands up who wants to guard a power station or bust someone visiting their elderly parents?

    What happened to the plan to use this lot?


  • Options
    https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1308399380165275648

    Another one.

    Within MoE, gap is somewhere between 0 and a couple of points.

    Keir will move that to a Labour lead by the end of this year, I would like to think. Today he has made another superb move on the very long road to getting us back into Government
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,927

    https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1308399380165275648

    Another one.

    Within MoE, gap is somewhere between 0 and a couple of points.

    Keir will move that to a Labour lead by the end of this year, I would like to think. Today he has made another superb move on the very long road to getting us back into Government

    Second poll of the day with a 3 point Tory lead... and you repeat the lead is between 0-2 points!!!!!!!
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,896

    Republicans have secured the numbers needed to ensure that President Trump's Supreme Court nominee will face a confirmation vote in the Senate.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-54254141

    Republicans are probably going to confirm someone before the election, and wait for the Democrats to talk about stuffing the court to motivate the evangelical voters out.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,992
    edited September 2020

    HYUFD said:

    Banning people from seeing each other is incredibly draconian. It's arguably acceptable as an emergency public health measure, though you can make the case that it's not right for a democratic government to forbid it by law, rather than advise it, but after six months it's a massive failure for a government to have to resort to it again.

    Absolutely massive failure.

    By any sane measure the situation is worse now in Scotland than anywhere else in Britain or Ireland. How long can the SNP retain the confidence of the Scottish public?

    Yes this could be Sturgeon's dementia tax or poll tax if it is seen as being done unnecessarily, as May found it does not matter how big your poll lead one disastrously unpopular policy can see it disappear overnight
    If some-one has the courage to oppose it.
    By definition the Tories are as Boris is sticking with the rule of 6, I have seen no evidence Starmer, Leonard or Davey back Sturgeon on this yet either
  • Options
    isam said:

    https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1308399380165275648

    Another one.

    Within MoE, gap is somewhere between 0 and a couple of points.

    Keir will move that to a Labour lead by the end of this year, I would like to think. Today he has made another superb move on the very long road to getting us back into Government

    Second poll of the day with a 3 point Tory lead... and you repeat the lead is between 0-2 points!!!!!!!
    Within MoE, gap is between 0 and 2 points I think, yes
  • Options

    Republicans have secured the numbers needed to ensure that President Trump's Supreme Court nominee will face a confirmation vote in the Senate.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-54254141

    https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/1308415881857437701
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,927

    isam said:

    https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1308399380165275648

    Another one.

    Within MoE, gap is somewhere between 0 and a couple of points.

    Keir will move that to a Labour lead by the end of this year, I would like to think. Today he has made another superb move on the very long road to getting us back into Government

    Second poll of the day with a 3 point Tory lead... and you repeat the lead is between 0-2 points!!!!!!!
    Within MoE, gap is between 0 and 2 points I think, yes
    Spin spin sugar x
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,965

    dixiedean said:

    Police not happy. Use of military "Not needed or asked for."
    Hands up who wants to guard a power station or bust someone visiting their elderly parents?

    What happened to the plan to use this lot?


    I think they found there was no funding.
    None whatsoever.
  • Options
    BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    edited September 2020

    https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1308399380165275648

    Another one.

    Within MoE, gap is somewhere between 0 and a couple of points.

    Keir will move that to a Labour lead by the end of this year, I would like to think. Today he has made another superb move on the very long road to getting us back into Government

    [NARRATOR]

    By this stage in the 2010-2015 Parliament, Labour under Ed Miliband had a 6-point lead over Cameron's Tories in the average of all the polls - 42% to 36%!

    In this Parliament, Keir Starmer's Labour has not led Boris Johnson's Conservatives in a single opinion poll...
  • Options
    isam said:

    isam said:

    https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1308399380165275648

    Another one.

    Within MoE, gap is somewhere between 0 and a couple of points.

    Keir will move that to a Labour lead by the end of this year, I would like to think. Today he has made another superb move on the very long road to getting us back into Government

    Second poll of the day with a 3 point Tory lead... and you repeat the lead is between 0-2 points!!!!!!!
    Within MoE, gap is between 0 and 2 points I think, yes
    Spin spin sugar x
    I literally said that in the original post but ok
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,280
    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:
    I cannot imagine banning all visits to other households going down too well with Scots
    They're not: [edit]: all banned I mean. Quite a few exceptions.

    https://twitter.com/theSNP/status/1308400564296978432
    What is an extended household? Can I go to the house of my daughter and her partner? Can my wife still take her mum to church and help her in with anything she buys whilst out?
    'Extended household' has been in usage for quite a long time. You're just being mischievous - you're too intellogent to be otherwise.
    See my comment at 3.35. I think that my "extended household" will have to be with my mother in law who needs a fair bit of help so that will exclude us from having another extended household with my daughter. But at least my wife can still help her mum whose acuity has sharply declined during lockdown.
  • Options
    Oh mate.
  • Options

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    LadyG said:

    Cyclefree said:

    This is what the French government is doing.

    “Victor Mallet in Paris JUNE 8 2020


    France’s “temporary unemployment” scheme to avert mass bankruptcies and lay-offs as a result of the coronavirus crisis will be extended, and is now expected to last up to two years, the country’s labour minister said.
    ....................
    Muriel Pénicaud, the labour minister, said that at the end of April some 8.6m employees were benefiting from the French scheme, under which the state pays subsidies to companies to fund the salaries of those prevented from working.

    “We are going to put in place a long-term partial-activity scheme,” Ms Pénicaud told Franceinfo radio, “through which employees could have fewer working hours and be partly supported by the state.” The scheme “is likely to last a year or two,” she added.
    .........................

    Ms Pénicaud did not say what share of wages the French government would continue to pay — currently 84-100 per cent of net salary for the lower paid — but that this was under discussion with employers and trade unions. She also said the government would make 50,000 inspections before the end of the summer to detect and punish fraudulent use of the scheme.
    .............

    “I think it makes sense even if the fiscal cost is going to be huge,” said Gilles Moec, Axa chief economist.
    .........................“


    See here for rest of article - https://www.ft.com/content/63b33ede-4463-4342-845a-26cf85a91d3d

    Two years.

    European governments are going to end up with debts like Japan. ~200% of GDP
    And just like Japan, all the debt will be owed to the Central Bank.
    Not sure a 30 year slow grinding reduction in the quality of life is something to aim for, especially for a bad case of the sniffles.
    Japan has the best growth in output per hour worked in the developed world over the past decade.

    The problem they have is that they have a diminishing number of people of working age looking after an ever greater number of retirees.

    That's something that Italy already struggles with, and that much of the EU will suffer from over the next few decades.
    I've never heard of the measure "output per hour worked" before if I'm honest. I'm not 100% sure what it is.

    But maybe not too surprising as the young workers there are flogging themselves to death and have no time for children of their own to support both the large number of old people and the national debt there.
    The Japanese government spends next to nothing on supporting the national debt as (1) half all JGBs are owned by the BOJ (which remits interest payments back to the government), and (2) 10 year JGB yields at 0.4%. In other words, the net debt service of the Japanese government is lower than in the UK.

    Japan's problem is simple:

    - low total fertility rate
    - high life expectancy

    That combination is something that pretty much all developed world governments have to deal with.
    I imagine the destruction of wealth for workers caused by government printing hasn't helped matters and has caused a reduction in the fertility rate.
    The Japanese birth rate has been falling since the early 1970s so I am doubtful that QE has much to do with it.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,926

    Republicans have secured the numbers needed to ensure that President Trump's Supreme Court nominee will face a confirmation vote in the Senate.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-54254141

    https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/1308415881857437701
    No need for GOP Never-Trumpers to head to the polls now.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,992
    edited September 2020

    Republicans have secured the numbers needed to ensure that President Trump's Supreme Court nominee will face a confirmation vote in the Senate.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-54254141

    https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/1308415881857437701
    The Republicans however have won the national popular vote in 8 out of 13 of the last House of Representatives elections over that same timeframe
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,231
    edited September 2020
    Carnyx said:

    The situation is worse in Scotland. The positivity rate is 7.6% That's why they have more severe rules, because they have lost more control.

    Nicola Sturgeon has lost control more than Boris Johnson. There's incompetence and then there's that.

    Depends on the nature of testing. Different testing regime in Scotland, possibly more focussed on risk areas.
    The problem is that it's going up - that's the sign of loss of control that we've seen elsewhere and before.

    It was 3.6% last Wednesday.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,280

    Meanwhile, the Assembly Rooms in Bath were named due to the city's connections to the wider colonial and slave economies during the 18th Century.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8759219/National-Trust-accused-rewriting-history-property-list-shame-colonial-links.html

    If that is your standard, I could have saved the National Trust time, effort and money and simply said rewritten every old building in the UK is linked to slavery, the empire or something else that is now deemed inappropriate. Full Stop.

    Incredible that simply providing a factual record of what happened in the past is now labelled "rewriting history". As a NT member I am really happy that they've done this work. I always like to know as much as possible about the history of the places we visit, although obviously I am mostly there for the cream teas.
    One of the more amusing cases I came across recently was the renaming of the David Hume Tower for some perceived inability to anticipate 20th century sensitivities by Edinburgh University. It is now called 40 George Square. That would be the Square named after George III who furiously opposed the abolition of the slave trade. Progress, its a wonderful thing.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,274
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Banning people from seeing each other is incredibly draconian. It's arguably acceptable as an emergency public health measure, though you can make the case that it's not right for a democratic government to forbid it by law, rather than advise it, but after six months it's a massive failure for a government to have to resort to it again.

    Absolutely massive failure.

    By any sane measure the situation is worse now in Scotland than anywhere else in Britain or Ireland. How long can the SNP retain the confidence of the Scottish public?

    Yes this could be Sturgeon's dementia tax or poll tax if it is seen as being done unnecessarily, as May found it does not matter how big your poll lead one disastrously unpopular policy can see it disappear overnight
    If some-one has the courage to oppose it.
    By definition the Tories are as Boris is sticking with the rule of 6, I have seen no evidence Starmer, Leonard or Davey back Sturgeon on this yet either
    Why risk embarrassing yourself again? We all know what Scotland does today, Bozo does tomorrow
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,992
    edited September 2020
    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Banning people from seeing each other is incredibly draconian. It's arguably acceptable as an emergency public health measure, though you can make the case that it's not right for a democratic government to forbid it by law, rather than advise it, but after six months it's a massive failure for a government to have to resort to it again.

    Absolutely massive failure.

    By any sane measure the situation is worse now in Scotland than anywhere else in Britain or Ireland. How long can the SNP retain the confidence of the Scottish public?

    Yes this could be Sturgeon's dementia tax or poll tax if it is seen as being done unnecessarily, as May found it does not matter how big your poll lead one disastrously unpopular policy can see it disappear overnight
    If some-one has the courage to oppose it.
    By definition the Tories are as Boris is sticking with the rule of 6, I have seen no evidence Starmer, Leonard or Davey back Sturgeon on this yet either
    Why risk embarrassing yourself again? We all know what Scotland does today, Bozo does tomorrow
    Boris will study the Scottish polls over the next week or two, if the SNP poll rating declines he will stick to his guns
  • Options
    HYUFD said:

    Republicans have secured the numbers needed to ensure that President Trump's Supreme Court nominee will face a confirmation vote in the Senate.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-54254141

    https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/1308415881857437701
    The Republicans however have won the national popular vote in 8 out of 13 of the last House of Representatives elections over that same timeframe
    Mostly in midterm years which have far lower turnout
  • Options

    DavidL said:

    LadyG said:

    DavidL said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Two weeks and Boris will be back to announce this as a new restriction for England.
    My daughter was going to be staying with a friend in Edinburgh this weekend. She really needs social contact right now.
    And its my birthday next week. Hey ho.
    This rule is particularly tough, given the different Scots climate. Down south it is often mild enough to mingle outside of an evening.

    In a hard Scottish winter you generally need to be indoors.
    Plus its dark here very early already, and that's before the clocks go back. I think Nicola is going to have a very hard time enforcing this, its going to be seriously unpopular.
    As long as it's different to what England is doing her base will lap it up.
    I assume you take the same view of the Welsh and NI devolved administrations, each of which have also devised their own individual responses.
    No. Sturgeon is playing a very clear game.
  • Options
    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,079
    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Banning people from seeing each other is incredibly draconian. It's arguably acceptable as an emergency public health measure, though you can make the case that it's not right for a democratic government to forbid it by law, rather than advise it, but after six months it's a massive failure for a government to have to resort to it again.

    Absolutely massive failure.

    By any sane measure the situation is worse now in Scotland than anywhere else in Britain or Ireland. How long can the SNP retain the confidence of the Scottish public?

    Yes this could be Sturgeon's dementia tax or poll tax if it is seen as being done unnecessarily, as May found it does not matter how big your poll lead one disastrously unpopular policy can see it disappear overnight
    If some-one has the courage to oppose it.
    By definition the Tories are as Boris is sticking with the rule of 6, I have seen no evidence Starmer, Leonard or Davey back Sturgeon on this yet either
    Why risk embarrassing yourself again? We all know what Scotland does today, Bozo does tomorrow
    Boris will study the Scottish polls over the next week or two, if the SNP poll rating declines he will stick to his guns
    Uhh what about the virus?
  • Options
    HYUFD said:
    The all-caps, double-spaced presentation of that tweet seems almost deliberately designed to infuriate the reader into not bothering to read all of it.
  • Options
    not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,341
    edited September 2020
    Trump is starting to look like he is in trouble in Georgia. 3 of the last 4 polls have shown Biden ahead or tied. It's certainly a more likely candidate to flip than Minnesota which seems to get so much attention on here.

    Texas also looking close with Trump only 2%, though I expect him to hold there.
  • Options

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Banning people from seeing each other is incredibly draconian. It's arguably acceptable as an emergency public health measure, though you can make the case that it's not right for a democratic government to forbid it by law, rather than advise it, but after six months it's a massive failure for a government to have to resort to it again.

    Absolutely massive failure.

    By any sane measure the situation is worse now in Scotland than anywhere else in Britain or Ireland. How long can the SNP retain the confidence of the Scottish public?

    Yes this could be Sturgeon's dementia tax or poll tax if it is seen as being done unnecessarily, as May found it does not matter how big your poll lead one disastrously unpopular policy can see it disappear overnight
    If some-one has the courage to oppose it.
    By definition the Tories are as Boris is sticking with the rule of 6, I have seen no evidence Starmer, Leonard or Davey back Sturgeon on this yet either
    Why risk embarrassing yourself again? We all know what Scotland does today, Bozo does tomorrow
    Boris will study the Scottish polls over the next week or two, if the SNP poll rating declines he will stick to his guns
    Uhh what about the virus?
    The virus is rubbish, it has never won an 80 seat majority, it is scared of Boris Johnson.
  • Options

    isam said:

    https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1308399380165275648

    Another one.

    Within MoE, gap is somewhere between 0 and a couple of points.

    Keir will move that to a Labour lead by the end of this year, I would like to think. Today he has made another superb move on the very long road to getting us back into Government

    Second poll of the day with a 3 point Tory lead... and you repeat the lead is between 0-2 points!!!!!!!
    Within MoE, gap is between 0 and 2 points I think, yes
    If you add 20 on to the Labour score they are 17 points ahead!
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,981
    LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Apparently the cut-off time in Wales and Northern Ireland is going to be 11pm, not 10pm.

    This stuff is just pathetic signalling that devolved regions has some powers. It does nothing to really change public health outcomes.
    It's not trivial at all. The busy final hour from ten to eleven can mean profit or loss for a pub or restaurant. Welsh pubs are more likely to survive the winter.

    Once again IT'S NOT A FINAL HOUR – the laws preventing pubs opening beyond 11pm were removed years ago. Fifteen years ago.

    Why do PBers repeat this fiction that pubs have to close at 11pm?

    https://life.spectator.co.uk/articles/longer-opening-hours-were-a-complete-success-how-did-the-experts-get-it-so-wrong/

    Er, it will be the final hour now, won't it? 10-11. That is my point.

    I'm not a stranger to pubs, I am aware the licensing laws were liberalised many years ago.
    Well the final hour now (in England) will be 9-10pm, but perhaps I am accusing you unfairly. I do recognise that you are generally expert on the sector.

    It comes from frustration with PBers general knowledge about pubs – I recall several threadettes passim based on the entirely false premise that pubs normally close at 11pm (perhaps these PBers all live in the sticks, or never actually attend pubs at all?)
    Fair enough. My point is that people are very used to drinking when they like now, since the laws were liberalised. If chucking out time is 10 that means last orders will be 9.30. It's going to be distinctly odd and not welcomed.

    Meanwhile over in Wales the publicans have an extra final hour of business to try and make a profit. That's gonna annoy English publicans.

    It will also be interesting to see how this effects pubs on the Anglo-Welsh border. There will be people running across the River Wye at Tintern to get an extra hour of boozing.
    That's very true – there are indeed a few border towns / villages where the frontier runs through the middle of the centre.
    There used to be just such an anomaly in Holborn, near the City. Ely Place. The Mitre tavern (a brilliant old pub) was technically an enclave of Cambridgeshire (because it was owned by the Bishop of Ely) so it had more relaxed closing times than London pubs, for a while. People used to flock there for an extra hour of ale.
    One of my favourite pubs in London.
  • Options
    Wash your hands, wear your mask, keep your distance.

    https://twitter.com/emmanuelmacron/status/1308419978983546880?s=21
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,718

    Carnyx said:

    The situation is worse in Scotland. The positivity rate is 7.6% That's why they have more severe rules, because they have lost more control.

    Nicola Sturgeon has lost control more than Boris Johnson. There's incompetence and then there's that.

    Depends on the nature of testing. Different testing regime in Scotland, possibly more focussed on risk areas.
    The problem is that it's going up - that's the sign of loss of control that we've seen elsewhere and before.

    It was 3.6% last Wednesday.
    Ah, thanks for that point. Schools went back 2 weeks earlier than south of the border, too.
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,981
    IanB2 said:

    I'm basically going to subscribe to Tesco Wine Club and spend the next six months getting battered.

    I'd recommend Laithwaites – absolutely superb service and algorithms that work.

    More impressively, the saleswomen actually know about wine.
    Yes, I have just taken my WSET Level 2 wine exam with laithwaites, now offered entirely online, and await the results. They are a good company. Some of their budget price wines however are pretty ordinary.

    I avoid anything budget from them – with large order discount you can make decent savings on the mid-range stuff.
  • Options

    isam said:

    https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1308399380165275648

    Another one.

    Within MoE, gap is somewhere between 0 and a couple of points.

    Keir will move that to a Labour lead by the end of this year, I would like to think. Today he has made another superb move on the very long road to getting us back into Government

    Second poll of the day with a 3 point Tory lead... and you repeat the lead is between 0-2 points!!!!!!!
    Within MoE, gap is between 0 and 2 points I think, yes
    If you add 20 on to the Labour score they are 17 points ahead!
    Seems possible, good analysis
  • Options
    It has been years since I visited Japan.

    JAV Company Opens 'Adult Theme Park', Staffed Entirely By Adult Film Stars.

    Japanese adult video maker Soft On Demand (SOD), one of Japan's largest adult video companies, is opening a 5-floor 'adult theme park' at Tokyo's red-light district, Kabukicho, on October 10th.


    https://9gag.com/gag/aQdOob7
  • Options
    DavidL said:

    Meanwhile, the Assembly Rooms in Bath were named due to the city's connections to the wider colonial and slave economies during the 18th Century.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8759219/National-Trust-accused-rewriting-history-property-list-shame-colonial-links.html

    If that is your standard, I could have saved the National Trust time, effort and money and simply said rewritten every old building in the UK is linked to slavery, the empire or something else that is now deemed inappropriate. Full Stop.

    Incredible that simply providing a factual record of what happened in the past is now labelled "rewriting history". As a NT member I am really happy that they've done this work. I always like to know as much as possible about the history of the places we visit, although obviously I am mostly there for the cream teas.
    One of the more amusing cases I came across recently was the renaming of the David Hume Tower for some perceived inability to anticipate 20th century sensitivities by Edinburgh University. It is now called 40 George Square. That would be the Square named after George III who furiously opposed the abolition of the slave trade. Progress, its a wonderful thing.
    As far as I know the NT isn't proposing to rename any of their properties, they simply want to provide more information to visitors, which seems about as far from "rewriting history" as it's possible to be. I'm not qualified to talk about the example you give since the only thing I know about Hume is his role in developing the quantity theory of money. Mind you, I think there is a difference between naming a building after somebody and simply having the building go by its street address, since the name of the street is outwith their control, and in any case who knows which George is being referred to? Could be George Clooney.
  • Options
    BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    edited September 2020

    Wash your hands, wear your mask, keep your distance.

    https://twitter.com/emmanuelmacron/status/1308419978983546880?s=21

    Lol - Macron has plagiarized 'Hands, Face, Space', and in the same order too!
  • Options
    MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,288
    RBG really should have retired after Obama won re-election in 2012.

    The Presidency swings back and forth - at that point it was 50:50 who would win in 2016. With two terms being the norm it was very unlikely she would last until 2025 and she has in fact passed away just before 2021.
  • Options

    https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1308399380165275648

    Another one.

    Within MoE, gap is somewhere between 0 and a couple of points.

    Keir will move that to a Labour lead by the end of this year, I would like to think. Today he has made another superb move on the very long road to getting us back into Government

    [NARRATOR]

    By this stage in the 2010-2015 Parliament, Labour under Ed Miliband had a 6-point lead over Cameron's Tories in the average of all the polls - 42% to 36%!

    In this Parliament, Keir Starmer's Labour has not led Boris Johnson's Conservatives in a single opinion poll...
    But EdM's leader ratings were miles behind Cameron. Remember hypothetical voting intention numbers are NO SUBSTITUTE for proper leader ratings like the one from Ipsos-MORI today that has Johnson 30% behind.
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,173

    https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1308399380165275648

    Another one.

    Within MoE, gap is somewhere between 0 and a couple of points.

    Keir will move that to a Labour lead by the end of this year, I would like to think. Today he has made another superb move on the very long road to getting us back into Government

    Getting closer to parity. Don't forget, no crossover until 2021.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,992

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Banning people from seeing each other is incredibly draconian. It's arguably acceptable as an emergency public health measure, though you can make the case that it's not right for a democratic government to forbid it by law, rather than advise it, but after six months it's a massive failure for a government to have to resort to it again.

    Absolutely massive failure.

    By any sane measure the situation is worse now in Scotland than anywhere else in Britain or Ireland. How long can the SNP retain the confidence of the Scottish public?

    Yes this could be Sturgeon's dementia tax or poll tax if it is seen as being done unnecessarily, as May found it does not matter how big your poll lead one disastrously unpopular policy can see it disappear overnight
    If some-one has the courage to oppose it.
    By definition the Tories are as Boris is sticking with the rule of 6, I have seen no evidence Starmer, Leonard or Davey back Sturgeon on this yet either
    Why risk embarrassing yourself again? We all know what Scotland does today, Bozo does tomorrow
    Boris will study the Scottish polls over the next week or two, if the SNP poll rating declines he will stick to his guns
    Uhh what about the virus?
    Will still be there regardless until we get a vaccine
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,173

    https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1308399380165275648

    Another one.

    Within MoE, gap is somewhere between 0 and a couple of points.

    Keir will move that to a Labour lead by the end of this year, I would like to think. Today he has made another superb move on the very long road to getting us back into Government

    [NARRATOR]

    By this stage in the 2010-2015 Parliament, Labour under Ed Miliband had a 6-point lead over Cameron's Tories in the average of all the polls - 42% to 36%!

    In this Parliament, Keir Starmer's Labour has not led Boris Johnson's Conservatives in a single opinion poll...
    Starmer doesn't want to peak too early like Ed.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,927

    https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1308399380165275648

    Another one.

    Within MoE, gap is somewhere between 0 and a couple of points.

    Keir will move that to a Labour lead by the end of this year, I would like to think. Today he has made another superb move on the very long road to getting us back into Government

    [NARRATOR]

    By this stage in the 2010-2015 Parliament, Labour under Ed Miliband had a 6-point lead over Cameron's Tories in the average of all the polls - 42% to 36%!

    In this Parliament, Keir Starmer's Labour has not led Boris Johnson's Conservatives in a single opinion poll...
    But EdM's leader ratings were miles behind Cameron. Remember hypothetical voting intention numbers are NO SUBSTITUTE for proper leader ratings like the one from Ipsos-MORI today that has Johnson 30% behind.
    Not so.

    Red is Cameron Leader Ratings lead
    Blue Conservative VI lead
    Grey Cameron Personality lead


  • Options
    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,710
    Plug for this Covid Tracker covering Scotland and the United Kingdom, put together by a student. Very clear and useful. A couple of takeaways:

    Looking at the heatmap in Scotland and the UK LA data, CV19 is becoming a disease of poverty, like other diseases I suppose. City of Glasgow and North Lanarkshire particularly bad hit.

    The rise in hospitalisations is scary, particularly in England. This threatens capacity for other treatments. The crowd who claim we should let CV19 patients die so we can treat other diseases presumably will allow them to die untreated, even though this is a treatable disease.

    Big jump in Scottish cases today. Looks, dare I say it, exponential.
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Scott_xP said:

    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1308402780802109440

    Sturgeon is a politician at the top of her game.

    And BoZo isn't.

    This is the moment though. This is the moment which either crowns Sturgeon Queen of the North or brings it all crashing down for the SNP.

    For all that people paint Sturgeon as overly cautious this move combined with full school return back in August shows her to be a massive risk taker.
  • Options
    isam said:

    https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1308399380165275648

    Another one.

    Within MoE, gap is somewhere between 0 and a couple of points.

    Keir will move that to a Labour lead by the end of this year, I would like to think. Today he has made another superb move on the very long road to getting us back into Government

    [NARRATOR]

    By this stage in the 2010-2015 Parliament, Labour under Ed Miliband had a 6-point lead over Cameron's Tories in the average of all the polls - 42% to 36%!

    In this Parliament, Keir Starmer's Labour has not led Boris Johnson's Conservatives in a single opinion poll...
    But EdM's leader ratings were miles behind Cameron. Remember hypothetical voting intention numbers are NO SUBSTITUTE for proper leader ratings like the one from Ipsos-MORI today that has Johnson 30% behind.
    Not so.

    Red is Cameron Leader Ratings lead
    Blue Conservative VI lead
    Grey Cameron Personality lead


    Mike vs isam, fight fight fight
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,992
    edited September 2020
    MikeL said:

    RBG really should have retired after Obama won re-election in 2012.

    The Presidency swings back and forth - at that point it was 50:50 who would win in 2016. With two terms being the norm it was very unlikely she would last until 2025 and she has in fact passed away just before 2021.

    Indeed, left liberals blame the voting system but they all know the Presidency has been decided by the electoral college not the popular vote since the US was created. No point doing a Hillary and fundraising in California when you need to win Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania.

    They then blame too many judges being appointed by Republican presidents, yet conservative judges are statistically more likely to retire under GOP presidents while liberal judges often cling on despite a Democrat being in the White House who can appoint their successor.

  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,718
    FF43 said:

    Plug for this Covid Tracker covering Scotland and the United Kingdom, put together by a student. Very clear and useful. A couple of takeaways:

    Looking at the heatmap in Scotland and the UK LA data, CV19 is becoming a disease of poverty, like other diseases I suppose. City of Glasgow and North Lanarkshire particularly bad hit.

    The rise in hospitalisations is scary, particularly in England. This threatens capacity for other treatments. The crowd who claim we should let CV19 patients die so we can treat other diseases presumably will allow them to die untreated, even though this is a treatable disease.

    Big jump in Scottish cases today. Looks, dare I say it, exponential.

    Oh good, thanks for that. It was offline recently and IO thought it had gone for good.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,927
    FF43 said:

    Plug for this Covid Tracker covering Scotland and the United Kingdom, put together by a student. Very clear and useful. A couple of takeaways:

    Looking at the heatmap in Scotland and the UK LA data, CV19 is becoming a disease of poverty, like other diseases I suppose. City of Glasgow and North Lanarkshire particularly bad hit.

    The rise in hospitalisations is scary, particularly in England. This threatens capacity for other treatments. The crowd who claim we should let CV19 patients die so we can treat other diseases presumably will allow them to die untreated, even though this is a treatable disease.

    Big jump in Scottish cases today. Looks, dare I say it, exponential.

    Big North/South divide... lock them up!
  • Options
    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,287



    Wash your hands, wear your mask, keep your distance.

    https://twitter.com/emmanuelmacron/status/1308419978983546880?s=21

    1) Du Pain
    2) Du Vin
    3) Du Boursin
    Pas du Pain - Vive Petain.
    Pas du vin - Vive Petain.
  • Options
    Alistair said:

    Scott_xP said:

    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1308402780802109440

    Sturgeon is a politician at the top of her game.

    And BoZo isn't.

    This is the moment though. This is the moment which either crowns Sturgeon Queen of the North or brings it all crashing down for the SNP.

    For all that people paint Sturgeon as overly cautious this move combined with full school return back in August shows her to be a massive risk taker.
    Regardless of whether she takes massive risks or is overly cautious - every move she makes is brilliant. And the consequences aren't her fault either - she does the best she can. All the time.

    What a star.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,298
    IanB2 said:

    I'm basically going to subscribe to Tesco Wine Club and spend the next six months getting battered.

    I'd recommend Laithwaites – absolutely superb service and algorithms that work.

    More impressively, the saleswomen actually know about wine.
    Yes, I have just taken my WSET Level 2 wine exam with laithwaites, now offered entirely online, and await the results. They are a good company. Some of their budget price wines however are pretty ordinary.
    At room temperature are you able to tell the difference between a red and a white yet?

    Also Laithwaites I don't like because for obviousl reasons they offer these enormous 14.5% reds where the alcohol overwhelms whatever modest quality the wine might have had.
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Republicans have secured the numbers needed to ensure that President Trump's Supreme Court nominee will face a confirmation vote in the Senate.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-54254141

    Without the nominee even being nominated. That's some going.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,280

    DavidL said:

    Meanwhile, the Assembly Rooms in Bath were named due to the city's connections to the wider colonial and slave economies during the 18th Century.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8759219/National-Trust-accused-rewriting-history-property-list-shame-colonial-links.html

    If that is your standard, I could have saved the National Trust time, effort and money and simply said rewritten every old building in the UK is linked to slavery, the empire or something else that is now deemed inappropriate. Full Stop.

    Incredible that simply providing a factual record of what happened in the past is now labelled "rewriting history". As a NT member I am really happy that they've done this work. I always like to know as much as possible about the history of the places we visit, although obviously I am mostly there for the cream teas.
    One of the more amusing cases I came across recently was the renaming of the David Hume Tower for some perceived inability to anticipate 20th century sensitivities by Edinburgh University. It is now called 40 George Square. That would be the Square named after George III who furiously opposed the abolition of the slave trade. Progress, its a wonderful thing.
    As far as I know the NT isn't proposing to rename any of their properties, they simply want to provide more information to visitors, which seems about as far from "rewriting history" as it's possible to be. I'm not qualified to talk about the example you give since the only thing I know about Hume is his role in developing the quantity theory of money. Mind you, I think there is a difference between naming a building after somebody and simply having the building go by its street address, since the name of the street is outwith their control, and in any case who knows which George is being referred to? Could be George Clooney.
    I don't have a problem with information and context, indeed, like you, I welcome it. David Hume was unquestionably the leading light in philosophy in his day leading the Scottish Enlightenment. I found it odd that the University did not want to celebrate one of its more distinguished alumni, even if context was required.

    In St Andrews Square there is a monument to Viscount Melville, Henry Dundas who was a master fixer in the mid 18th century with influence well beyond Scotland. A plinth is being put up pointing out that he used that power to again seek to protect the slave trade and certain other calumnious behaviours. Which is fair enough. I remember studying him in history at school and that sort of context was not mentioned which was wrong.
  • Options
    Weren't the polls proven to be wrong between 2010 and 2015, so not sure a direct comparison is fair
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,927

    Weren't the polls proven to be wrong between 2010 and 2015, so not sure a direct comparison is fair

    Until the campaign starts, they have been wrong every time for the last decade or so
  • Options

    https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1308399380165275648

    Another one.

    Within MoE, gap is somewhere between 0 and a couple of points.

    Keir will move that to a Labour lead by the end of this year, I would like to think. Today he has made another superb move on the very long road to getting us back into Government

    [NARRATOR]

    By this stage in the 2010-2015 Parliament, Labour under Ed Miliband had a 6-point lead over Cameron's Tories in the average of all the polls - 42% to 36%!

    In this Parliament, Keir Starmer's Labour has not led Boris Johnson's Conservatives in a single opinion poll...
    But EdM's leader ratings were miles behind Cameron. Remember hypothetical voting intention numbers are NO SUBSTITUTE for proper leader ratings like the one from Ipsos-MORI today that has Johnson 30% behind.
    Indeed Starmer has got a lead at the minute.

    Today's IPSOS MORI leadership approval ratings:
    Boris Johnson 40%
    Keir Starmer 43%

    That's a 3% lead for Starmer not a 30% lead. Remember it is the positive approval ratings that matter, as the author of the UK's number one political blog has quite clearly explained in the past.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,586
    MaxPB said:

    LadyG said:

    MaxPB said:

    Predictions of a V-shape recovery looking unlikely

    Boris just killed it.

    Also I just remembered you wanted predictions, this is what we had pencilled in before July figures came out:

    July 7.1%
    August 7.2%
    September 2.1%

    Final Q -1.3%

    Economy compared to Feb - 96.1%

    New projections

    July 6.6% (actual)
    August 7.7%
    September 0.9%

    Final Q -0.8%

    Economy compared to Feb - 95.1%

    Obviously this is all horribly out of date given the latest measures. 😭
    A second wave was always likely to sweep away your optimism. Sadly. Respiratory viruses have second waves.

    My initial predictions were for a GDP loss of 10-15% over the year. 20% if the health service went into meltdown.

    10% looks about right, at the mo. But we may bounce back vigorously next year.
    The government's incompetence has led to the second wave. Rubbish quarantine policy, rubbish isolation policy and halting of testing expansion in July is why wer are where we are. All of those are domestic issues. The second wave is on Boris and and the c***.
    Cock up; lock down ?
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,983

    The whole government narrative is increasingly debunked and collapsing in chaos

    Why post a video clearly made by a moron?
    The video only has 8 views, so I suspect your insult will hit close to home.
    As a matter of fact I watched it; just to see. It's unlikely such a publication will have credibility, but ...

    And it didn't. But it did give an idea of the mindset of those who made it. Foolish yes, Moronic, no.
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,710
    On topic the issue isn't Cummings; it's Johnson. Johnson should have fired him over the Barnard Castle affair, if he didn't resign already.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,280
    Alistair said:

    Scott_xP said:

    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1308402780802109440

    Sturgeon is a politician at the top of her game.

    And BoZo isn't.

    This is the moment though. This is the moment which either crowns Sturgeon Queen of the North or brings it all crashing down for the SNP.

    For all that people paint Sturgeon as overly cautious this move combined with full school return back in August shows her to be a massive risk taker.
    I think that people will be pissed about this but the real issue for her is what is going to be done about next years exams. Talk at the moment is that National 5s (effectively GCSEs) will not be examined but based on some form of continuous assessment. Highers and Advanced Highers are to be examined but possibly on a cut down curriculum. It is truly incredible that Swinney still hasn't made his mind up about this given we are half way through the Autumn term. This is real dynamite and Sturgeon is going to have to handle it very carefully, especially given Swinney's track record of incompetence over the last couple of years.
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    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,079
    Wine experts of PB, I had a deliciously sweet and crisp Chardonnay at an Italian restaurant a while back and I think it was this: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Colombella-Bianco-Salento-Puglia-2011/dp/B00CJEDZKM#ace-g3536363283

    It doesn't seem to be widely available. What do I need to look for if I want to buy something similar? I know nothing about wine apart from that specific one being delicious.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,926
    Alistair said:

    Republicans have secured the numbers needed to ensure that President Trump's Supreme Court nominee will face a confirmation vote in the Senate.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-54254141

    Without the nominee even being nominated. That's some going.
    Must be concerning for Susan Collins.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,896
    MikeL said:

    RBG really should have retired after Obama won re-election in 2012.

    The Presidency swings back and forth - at that point it was 50:50 who would win in 2016. With two terms being the norm it was very unlikely she would last until 2025 and she has in fact passed away just before 2021.

    Well quite. It’s a weird system that can encourage people to stay on far too long in the job because of the politics of appointment.

    Six years ago RBG was 81 and with an uncertain Senate election ahead, she could have retired and seen a Democrat president and a Democrat Senate pick her successor.
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    So are gyms and cinema allowed to remain open?
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited September 2020
    BBC News - Luis Suarez: Police probe his Italian citizenship test

    The player allegedly knew about subjects given in the test before he took it at the University of Perugia and had his final score agreed beforehand, according to a statement issued by the prosecutor's office in Perugia, central Italy, and the Guardia di Finanza.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-54250454
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,983
    IanB2 said:

    I'm basically going to subscribe to Tesco Wine Club and spend the next six months getting battered.

    I'd recommend Laithwaites – absolutely superb service and algorithms that work.

    More impressively, the saleswomen actually know about wine.
    Yes, I have just taken my WSET Level 2 wine exam with laithwaites, now offered entirely online, and await the results. They are a good company. Some of their budget price wines however are pretty ordinary.
    There's a very imaginative independent wine seller near me. Util Frbruary he had a good trade with pubs and restaurants in Essex & Suffolk; now he's looking after retail customers.
    Part of my plans for tomorrow are to gym over there, suitably masked and review what he's got this week.

    There's also a vineyard nearby which sells it's own and other English wines.Tasty, but a bit on the pricey side.
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    So are gyms and cinema allowed to remain open?

    Yes but no games of basketball...indoor spin class fine, watching Tenet fine, outside yoga class of 7, computer says no.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,985
    LadyG said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    LadyG said:

    MaxPB said:

    Predictions of a V-shape recovery looking unlikely

    Boris just killed it.

    Also I just remembered you wanted predictions, this is what we had pencilled in before July figures came out:

    July 7.1%
    August 7.2%
    September 2.1%

    Final Q -1.3%

    Economy compared to Feb - 96.1%

    New projections

    July 6.6% (actual)
    August 7.7%
    September 0.9%

    Final Q -0.8%

    Economy compared to Feb - 95.1%

    Obviously this is all horribly out of date given the latest measures. 😭
    A second wave was always likely to sweep away your optimism. Sadly. Respiratory viruses have second waves.

    My initial predictions were for a GDP loss of 10-15% over the year. 20% if the health service went into meltdown.

    10% looks about right, at the mo. But we may bounce back vigorously next year.
    The government's incompetence has led to the second wave. Rubbish quarantine policy, rubbish isolation policy and halting of testing expansion in July is why wer are where we are. All of those are domestic issues. The second wave is on Boris and and the c***.
    So all the other countries in Europe having a second wave?
    They aren't island nations.

    Also they made the same mistakes and are just as incompetent. France especially so.
    I'd say the Spanish decision to re-open nightclubs was the dumbest single move. (And the fact that they kept them open in Ibiza two weeks after closing them down in the rest of Spain.)
    No, Britain keeping open the airports, with nice direct flights from Wuhan, until about June, was even stupider.
    I was replying to a comment about errors in the rest of Europe. I've already written - at length - about how dumb the UK's traveller policy was.
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    isamisam Posts: 40,927

    BBC News - Luis Suarez: Police probe his Italian citizenship test

    The player allegedly knew about subjects given in the test before he took it at the University of Perugia and had his final score agreed beforehand, according to a statement issued by the prosecutor's office in Perugia, central Italy, and the Guardia di Finanza.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-54250454

    Perugia you say?

    Did he go via Farnborough??

    With Boris in the cock pit!
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    Its remarkable to think that the SCOTUS could soon have a 6-3 conservative majority, but had Hillary not neglected to campaign in the Midwest and put a bit more effort into their concerns it could now have a 6-3 liberal majority I believe?
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    Sandpit said:

    MikeL said:

    RBG really should have retired after Obama won re-election in 2012.

    The Presidency swings back and forth - at that point it was 50:50 who would win in 2016. With two terms being the norm it was very unlikely she would last until 2025 and she has in fact passed away just before 2021.

    Well quite. It’s a weird system that can encourage people to stay on far too long in the job because of the politics of appointment.

    Six years ago RBG was 81 and with an uncertain Senate election ahead, she could have retired and seen a Democrat president and a Democrat Senate pick her successor.
    Requiring a higher percentage of the Senate to vote for an SC Judge would result in more judges acceptable to both Republicans and Democrats and they could then be chosen for their ability.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,896

    BBC News - Luis Suarez: Police probe his Italian citizenship test

    The player allegedly knew about subjects given in the test before he took it at the University of Perugia and had his final score agreed beforehand, according to a statement issued by the prosecutor's office in Perugia, central Italy, and the Guardia di Finanza.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-54250454

    Sounds like it could have been organised by FIFA.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,983

    Wine experts of PB, I had a deliciously sweet and crisp Chardonnay at an Italian restaurant a while back and I think it was this: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Colombella-Bianco-Salento-Puglia-2011/dp/B00CJEDZKM#ace-g3536363283

    It doesn't seem to be widely available. What do I need to look for if I want to buy something similar? I know nothing about wine apart from that specific one being delicious.

    Puglian wines seem to be becoming more widely available. Used to be mainly reds..... Primitivo and such, ................. but whites are now appearing. Might be worth Googling, or checking the lists of such as Laithwaites or Majestic.
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    BBC News - Luis Suarez: Police probe his Italian citizenship test

    The player allegedly knew about subjects given in the test before he took it at the University of Perugia and had his final score agreed beforehand, according to a statement issued by the prosecutor's office in Perugia, central Italy, and the Guardia di Finanza.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-54250454

    Ah the University of Perugia, that brings back memories.

    Newsnight reveals inaccuracies in Iain Duncan Smith's CV

    Aspects of Iain Duncan Smith's CV, relating to his education, are inaccurate and misleading, an investigation by BBC Newsnight reveals.

    The investigation into the Conservative Party leader's education and early career - broadcast at 10.30pm on BBC TWO last night (Wednesday 18 December 2002) - was presented by Michael Crick, author of the best-selling biography of Jeffrey Archer.

    If any of the following material is used BBC Newsnight must be credited.

    The University of Perugia

    Iain Duncan Smith's biography on the Conservative Party website, his entry in Who's Who, and various other places, state that he went to the Universita di Perugia in Italy.

    This is not true: his office now admit that he went to the Universita per Stranieri, which is also in Perugia.

    The Universita per Stranieri - or University for Foreigners - was founded in 1921 and is a totally separate institution to the medieval Universita di Perugia, founded by the Pope in 1308.

    Although the Universita per Stranieri is a respected language school, it did not grant degrees when he studied there in 1973, although some students attained diplomas.

    Mr Duncan Smith's office has now admitted to Newsnight that he didn't get any qualifications in Perugia or even finish his exams.


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/pressreleases/stories/2002/12_december/19/newsnight_ids_cv.shtml
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    Its remarkable to think that the SCOTUS could soon have a 6-3 conservative majority, but had Hillary not neglected to campaign in the Midwest and put a bit more effort into their concerns it could now have a 6-3 liberal majority I believe?

    Hilary would likely have faced a GOP senate throughout her presidency though. At best she may have been able to nominate three moderates. And assuming this alternative timeline had no impact on the date RBG dies, McConnell would of course be refusing to allow a vote on a replacement right now.
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