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WH2020 betting: The best odds on Biden are the in the national markets – Trump punters should go for

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  • Options
    kinabalu said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Biden is up 4pts in NC with Suffolk Uni (A grade pollster on 538)

    B 47
    T 43

    North Carolina so far:

    Mail in votes by party
    Democratic 44,821 55.33%
    Republican 12,460 15.38%
    Unaffiliated 23,525 29.04%
    Libertarian 166 0.20%
    Constitution 11 0.01%
    Green 29 0.04%


    Party Requests (Mail)
    DEMOCRATIC 435,981
    REPUBLICAN 147,986
    UNAFFILIATED 275,660
    LIBERTARIAN 2,808
    CONSTITUTION 203
    GREEN 414

    Grand Total 863,052

    Here's 2016

    Mail in In person On the day

    Dem 60043 / 1247968 / 0
    Rep 76154 / 928187 / 0
    Una 55404 / 779454 / 0
    Unknown 0 / 0 / 1592082

    That lot resulted in 2,362,631 Trump / 2,189,316 Clinton / 187,345 Someone else
    Why do left wing parties in general tend to do better by postal votes and right wing voting in person?

    It's the same here, but not so pronounced

    It always seems a little suspicious to me.
    Remain won the in person vote in 2016. The postals turned it to Leave.

    Does that seem suspicious to you?
    Well the old tended to vote for Brexit more often, so it makes sense to an extent.

    The old also vote more right wing in general, so you'd expect to see the same pattern...but you see the opposite.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,187
    Pulpstar said:

    HYUFD said:



    That does not really tell us much given 67% of Democrats this year intend to vote via mail in postal ballot compared to just 28% of Republicans and 57% of Republicans intend to vote on the day compared to just 37% of Democrats.

    67% of Democrats plan to vote via mail and 37% of Democrats intend to vote on the day. That's 104% of Democrats ?!
    Landslide territory and no mistake.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,986
    edited September 2020
    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Which might ironically help Boris if he can postpone a hard Brexit past the Holyrood elections next May until the end of next year, thus reducing the SNP's grievance opportunities (even if it costs the Tories some council seats in England next year)
    But it wouldn't postpone Hard Brexit, as that would happen New Years Day, Irish Sea customs and all.
    Boris has now committed to not have a border in the Irish Sea, even if only for a few months, so most likely Boris would extend trade talks for that few months and even ask the EU to extend the implementation period, if only for show mainly, to avoid that happening in January and the EU would likely agree given the internal market bill would not have passed yet
    Well, he has committed to two contradictory things then. No extensions and no Irish Sea border (despite the latter being a key part of his oven ready deal).
    Boris will not extend beyond December 2021 but he would probably extend beyond December 2020 to avoid the Irish Sea border until the internal market bill passes at the end of 2021, especially as on current polling he would likely need the DUP in 2024 to have a chance to stay in power.

    That would though of course mean Farage would likely stand Brexit Party candidates in the county and district council elections next May even if it reduces the threat from the SNP at Holyrood
  • Options
    dixiedean said:

    I'm not following live, but on the basis of the reports of what Dido Harding is saying, she seems to be extremely sensible, and very much on top of the brief.

    It is, however, eminently possible to be extremely sensible, on top of the brief and not very good at the job.
    It is, but those attributes are a good start. The vast majority of the criticism she is getting is just uninformed, prejudiced sniping by people who haven't the faintest idea whether she is good at the job because they don't have the faintest idea of the organisational challenges of the job, how much of a mess she inherited, and how hard it is to do anything in the NHS.
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,150
    Nigelb said:

    I think it probably fair to say that Dido can't give any useful answers to any interesting questions, as she either "doesn't have the hard data", or the question deals with a matter covered by "commercial confidentiality".

    Though here is a pleasing absence of meaningless metaphors.

    She's not divorced from reality, but her capability to influence it as a manager of the organisation isn't particularly evident.

    I was once invited as an independent training provider to a meeting of Estyn in Cardiff. After three hours nothing had been agreed except for a dozen or so meetings to discuss the dozen or so points that had been raised but not agreed upon. Dido's waffle reminds me of that wasted morning.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,962
    The app is launching next week. How many on here will be downloading it?
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,150
    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Which might ironically help Boris if he can postpone a hard Brexit past the Holyrood elections next May until the end of next year, thus reducing the SNP's grievance opportunities (even if it costs the Tories some council seats in England next year)
    But it wouldn't postpone Hard Brexit, as that would happen New Years Day, Irish Sea customs and all.
    Boris has now committed to not have a border in the Irish Sea, even if only for a few months, so most likely Boris would extend trade talks for that few months and even ask the EU to extend the implementation period, if only for show mainly, to avoid that happening in January and the EU would likely agree given the internal market bill would not have passed yet
    Well, he has committed to two contradictory things then. No extensions and no Irish Sea border (despite the latter being a key part of his oven ready deal).
    Boris will not extend beyond December 2021 but he would probably extend beyond December 2020 to avoid the Irish Sea border until the internal market bill passes at the end of 2021, especially as on current polling he would likely need the DUP in 2024 to have a chance to stay in power.

    That would though of course mean Farage would likely stand Brexit Party candidates in the county and district council elections next May even if it reduces the threat from the SNP at Holyrood
    Uh?
  • Options
    Nonce Finder General is coining it in....yet another new (non) job.

    Tom Watson takes job as adviser to Paddy Power and Betfair

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/sep/17/tom-watson-job-adviser-paddy-power-betfair-gambling-former-labour-mp
  • Options
    MangoMango Posts: 1,013
    So, take responsibility Tobes, and quit writing. Go and work as a cleaner and keep your mouth shut for ever.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,187

    kinabalu said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Biden is up 4pts in NC with Suffolk Uni (A grade pollster on 538)

    B 47
    T 43

    North Carolina so far:

    Mail in votes by party
    Democratic 44,821 55.33%
    Republican 12,460 15.38%
    Unaffiliated 23,525 29.04%
    Libertarian 166 0.20%
    Constitution 11 0.01%
    Green 29 0.04%


    Party Requests (Mail)
    DEMOCRATIC 435,981
    REPUBLICAN 147,986
    UNAFFILIATED 275,660
    LIBERTARIAN 2,808
    CONSTITUTION 203
    GREEN 414

    Grand Total 863,052

    Here's 2016

    Mail in In person On the day

    Dem 60043 / 1247968 / 0
    Rep 76154 / 928187 / 0
    Una 55404 / 779454 / 0
    Unknown 0 / 0 / 1592082

    That lot resulted in 2,362,631 Trump / 2,189,316 Clinton / 187,345 Someone else
    Why do left wing parties in general tend to do better by postal votes and right wing voting in person?

    It's the same here, but not so pronounced

    It always seems a little suspicious to me.
    Remain won the in person vote in 2016. The postals turned it to Leave.

    Does that seem suspicious to you?
    Well the old tended to vote for Brexit more often, so it makes sense to an extent.

    The old also vote more right wing in general, so you'd expect to see the same pattern...but you see the opposite.
    That would be a problem - the old voting for Brexit more often. Once was the limit.

    But anyway, if you're happy I'm happy.

    Truth is, the risk and extent of vote-rigging is correlated to the integrity of a country's democratic process and politicians not to the 'left or right' political complexion of the parties involved.
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,150
    RobD said:

    I'm not following live, but on the basis of the reports of what Dido Harding is saying, she seems to be extremely sensible, and very much on top of the brief.

    Like you I am following via the wire, but my biggest concern is her surprise that children returning to school on an industrial scale wouldn't cause a greater demand for tests.
    It's possible to both expect a rise and be surprised at the size of the increase. As I mentioned earlier, it was mentioned in the committee that the projections were based on SAGE predictions of the demand.
    OK. In that case what is the point of Dido?
  • Options
    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Which might ironically help Boris if he can postpone a hard Brexit past the Holyrood elections next May until the end of next year, thus reducing the SNP's grievance opportunities (even if it costs the Tories some council seats in England next year)
    But it wouldn't postpone Hard Brexit, as that would happen New Years Day, Irish Sea customs and all.
    Boris has now committed to not have a border in the Irish Sea, even if only for a few months, so most likely Boris would extend trade talks for that few months and even ask the EU to extend the implementation period, if only for show mainly, to avoid that happening in January and the EU would likely agree given the internal market bill would not have passed yet
    Well, he has committed to two contradictory things then. No extensions and no Irish Sea border (despite the latter being a key part of his oven ready deal).
    Boris will not extend beyond December 2021 but he would probably extend beyond December 2020 to avoid the Irish Sea border until the internal market bill passes at the end of 2021, especially as on current polling he would likely need the DUP in 2024 to have a chance to stay in power.

    That would though of course mean Farage would likely stand Brexit Party candidates in the county and district council elections next May even if it reduces the threat from the SNP at Holyrood
    Hang on, hang on, I thought the end 2020 deadline was absolutely solid, not just one of those 'do or die' deadlines that Boris routinely forgets about. Are you now saying that some smidgen of reality is leaking in?

    Mind you, I'm not sure that there's any mechanism for extension. Maybe with goodwill from the EU something could be fudged, but if that's what Boris wants then blowing up any goodwill that's left isn't obviously the best way to go about it.
  • Options
    RobD said:

    The app is launching next week. How many on here will be downloading it?

    There has been virtually no reporting of how the new beta has been going.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,962

    RobD said:

    I'm not following live, but on the basis of the reports of what Dido Harding is saying, she seems to be extremely sensible, and very much on top of the brief.

    Like you I am following via the wire, but my biggest concern is her surprise that children returning to school on an industrial scale wouldn't cause a greater demand for tests.
    It's possible to both expect a rise and be surprised at the size of the increase. As I mentioned earlier, it was mentioned in the committee that the projections were based on SAGE predictions of the demand.
    OK. In that case what is the point of Dido?
    Do you think her sole purpose is test demand projections?
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Scott_xP said:
    There's a visible increase in the number of hospitalisations on that graph.

    And once again, if you wait till deaths start rising you are too late.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,541
    edited September 2020
    kinabalu said:

    Pulpstar said:

    HYUFD said:



    That does not really tell us much given 67% of Democrats this year intend to vote via mail in postal ballot compared to just 28% of Republicans and 57% of Republicans intend to vote on the day compared to just 37% of Democrats.

    67% of Democrats plan to vote via mail and 37% of Democrats intend to vote on the day. That's 104% of Democrats ?!
    Landslide territory and no mistake.
    That's Landslide Lyndon territory...

    HYUFD has inadvertently started a new Trumpian conspiracy theory.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,962

    RobD said:

    The app is launching next week. How many on here will be downloading it?

    There has been virtually no reporting of how the new beta has been going.
    Must be good news, given the press is only interested in bad stories!
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,150
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    I'm not following live, but on the basis of the reports of what Dido Harding is saying, she seems to be extremely sensible, and very much on top of the brief.

    Like you I am following via the wire, but my biggest concern is her surprise that children returning to school on an industrial scale wouldn't cause a greater demand for tests.
    It's possible to both expect a rise and be surprised at the size of the increase. As I mentioned earlier, it was mentioned in the committee that the projections were based on SAGE predictions of the demand.
    OK. In that case what is the point of Dido?
    Do you think her sole purpose is test demand projections?
    I am not entirely sure what function she serves. Is she?
  • Options
    Spectator TV have Anders Tegnell on this evening.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,962

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    I'm not following live, but on the basis of the reports of what Dido Harding is saying, she seems to be extremely sensible, and very much on top of the brief.

    Like you I am following via the wire, but my biggest concern is her surprise that children returning to school on an industrial scale wouldn't cause a greater demand for tests.
    It's possible to both expect a rise and be surprised at the size of the increase. As I mentioned earlier, it was mentioned in the committee that the projections were based on SAGE predictions of the demand.
    OK. In that case what is the point of Dido?
    Do you think her sole purpose is test demand projections?
    I am not entirely sure what function she serves. Is she?
    I'm not even sure what you are asking. Her job is an executive director, not as a statistician.
  • Options

    Spectator TV have Anders Tegnell on this evening.

    They should just have posters from this site on.They know far more than he does.
  • Options
    Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 4,808
    On today's figure my UK R estimate is 1.10 (+0.01 from yesterday's estimate). Estimates the average number of onward transmissions from each person confirmed positive between 6-13/9 (or 4 day change in the 7 day rolling case average).

    If the testing turnaround is still increasing, it is quite possible this could be a slightly low estimate.
  • Options
    contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    That Talk of the Sound piece I posted reckons its very easy for a US postal vote to be disqualified, even when it is sent in. The process is actually quite tricky and bureaucratic, and any small mishaps mean you are disenfranchised.

    In the school election in New Rochelle run by Cuomo only 17% of unsolicited ballots were ever returned.

    Of those, 14% were disqualified.

    Only 80% of solicited ballots were returned, if I read that piece right.

    OK its a school election but it is clear that, ballots, whether solicited or unsolicited, do not mean votes. Not by a long chalk.

  • Options
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Biden is up 4pts in NC with Suffolk Uni (A grade pollster on 538)

    B 47
    T 43

    North Carolina so far:

    Mail in votes by party
    Democratic 44,821 55.33%
    Republican 12,460 15.38%
    Unaffiliated 23,525 29.04%
    Libertarian 166 0.20%
    Constitution 11 0.01%
    Green 29 0.04%


    Party Requests (Mail)
    DEMOCRATIC 435,981
    REPUBLICAN 147,986
    UNAFFILIATED 275,660
    LIBERTARIAN 2,808
    CONSTITUTION 203
    GREEN 414

    Grand Total 863,052

    Here's 2016

    Mail in In person On the day

    Dem 60043 / 1247968 / 0
    Rep 76154 / 928187 / 0
    Una 55404 / 779454 / 0
    Unknown 0 / 0 / 1592082

    That lot resulted in 2,362,631 Trump / 2,189,316 Clinton / 187,345 Someone else
    Why do left wing parties in general tend to do better by postal votes and right wing voting in person?

    It's the same here, but not so pronounced

    It always seems a little suspicious to me.
    Remain won the in person vote in 2016. The postals turned it to Leave.

    Does that seem suspicious to you?
    Well the old tended to vote for Brexit more often, so it makes sense to an extent.

    The old also vote more right wing in general, so you'd expect to see the same pattern...but you see the opposite.
    That would be a problem - the old voting for Brexit more often. Once was the limit.

    But anyway, if you're happy I'm happy.

    Truth is, the risk and extent of vote-rigging is correlated to the integrity of a country's democratic process and politicians not to the 'left or right' political complexion of the parties involved.
    Well that's a roundabout way of saying you don't know why the left seem to get a higher proportion of postal votes than they receive in person.

    Maybe it's just magic.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,541

    dixiedean said:

    I'm not following live, but on the basis of the reports of what Dido Harding is saying, she seems to be extremely sensible, and very much on top of the brief.

    It is, however, eminently possible to be extremely sensible, on top of the brief and not very good at the job.
    It is, but those attributes are a good start. The vast majority of the criticism she is getting is just uninformed, prejudiced sniping by people who haven't the faintest idea whether she is good at the job because they don't have the faintest idea of the organisational challenges of the job, how much of a mess she inherited, and how hard it is to do anything in the NHS.
    And both questions and testimony aren't really helping give anyone any better idea of any of those things.
  • Options
    Alistair said:


    There's a visible increase in the number of hospitalisations on that graph.

    And once again, if you wait till deaths start rising you are too late.

    Looking more closely, still small numbers in absolute terms, but the rise is certainly worrying:

    https://twitter.com/ganeshran/status/1306612062785802241
  • Options
    Nigelb said:

    dixiedean said:

    I'm not following live, but on the basis of the reports of what Dido Harding is saying, she seems to be extremely sensible, and very much on top of the brief.

    It is, however, eminently possible to be extremely sensible, on top of the brief and not very good at the job.
    It is, but those attributes are a good start. The vast majority of the criticism she is getting is just uninformed, prejudiced sniping by people who haven't the faintest idea whether she is good at the job because they don't have the faintest idea of the organisational challenges of the job, how much of a mess she inherited, and how hard it is to do anything in the NHS.
    And both questions and testimony aren't really helping give anyone any better idea of any of those things.
    Of course not. It's committee of politicians. Are you new here? :)
  • Options
    contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    Spectator TV have Anders Tegnell on this evening.

    They should just have posters from this site on.They know far more than he does.
    The Spectator are mounting a pretty big campaign against the government here. They have plenty of influence in tory circles.

    To be fair, the BBC also had Prof. Gupta on Newsnight last night.
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,150
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    I'm not following live, but on the basis of the reports of what Dido Harding is saying, she seems to be extremely sensible, and very much on top of the brief.

    Like you I am following via the wire, but my biggest concern is her surprise that children returning to school on an industrial scale wouldn't cause a greater demand for tests.
    It's possible to both expect a rise and be surprised at the size of the increase. As I mentioned earlier, it was mentioned in the committee that the projections were based on SAGE predictions of the demand.
    OK. In that case what is the point of Dido?
    Do you think her sole purpose is test demand projections?
    I am not entirely sure what function she serves. Is she?
    I'm not even sure what you are asking. Her job is an executive director, not as a statistician.
    Testing is turning into a catastrophic failure. The buck stops with her. If her minions are not up to the job she needs new minions. If the new minions are also failing, perhaps she may feel she is not up to the job herself.
  • Options
    Big increases on the self reporting app and NHS triage over the past couple of weeks....

    https://twitter.com/cricketwyvern/status/1306617085053865985?s=20
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,962

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    I'm not following live, but on the basis of the reports of what Dido Harding is saying, she seems to be extremely sensible, and very much on top of the brief.

    Like you I am following via the wire, but my biggest concern is her surprise that children returning to school on an industrial scale wouldn't cause a greater demand for tests.
    It's possible to both expect a rise and be surprised at the size of the increase. As I mentioned earlier, it was mentioned in the committee that the projections were based on SAGE predictions of the demand.
    OK. In that case what is the point of Dido?
    Do you think her sole purpose is test demand projections?
    I am not entirely sure what function she serves. Is she?
    I'm not even sure what you are asking. Her job is an executive director, not as a statistician.
    Testing is turning into a catastrophic failure. The buck stops with her. If her minions are not up to the job she needs new minions. If the new minions are also failing, perhaps she may feel she is not up to the job herself.
    Catastrophic failure? Never before have so many people been tested, and they have committed to continually increasing it. If we had the testing system from elsewhere transposed here it would only be worse.
  • Options
    MangoMango Posts: 1,013

    I wonder how many lefties here will suddenly find they like the Toadmeister?
    None. He is exactly the kind of prick who should disappear for ever.
  • Options

    Alistair said:


    There's a visible increase in the number of hospitalisations on that graph.

    And once again, if you wait till deaths start rising you are too late.

    Looking more closely, still small numbers in absolute terms, but the rise is certainly worrying:

    twitter.com/ganeshran/status/1306612062785802241
    I am not sure the message is getting out there. I have been out and about today, drove past a number of pubs that were rammed*, people very casually wandering around no masks, etc.

    * Given it is Thursday afternoon, I presume oldies and / or people still on furlough.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,263
    edited September 2020
    RobD said:

    The app is launching next week. How many on here will be downloading it?

    We’ve had it on the island for a month or so, and got another government letter exhorting us to install it. But after the fiasco of the last app - which they never directly communicated had been abandoned, I confess I didn’t bother to try out the new one.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,962
    edited September 2020
    IanB2 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Dido does have a function, she makes Johnson look supremely competent.
    The waffly bollocks is quite similar, though. Even if lacking a certain panache.
    She could always ruffle her hair.
    You could put a chocolate Dido in the job, and we’d be no worse off.
    RobD said:

    The app is launching next week. How many on here will be downloading it?

    We’ve had it on the island for a month or so, and got another government letter exhorting us to instal it. But after the fiasco of the last app - which they never directly communicated had been abandoned, I confess I didn’t bother to try out the new one.
    Interesting, thanks. It's surprising it wasn't just an update to the existing app you were using.
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,150
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    I'm not following live, but on the basis of the reports of what Dido Harding is saying, she seems to be extremely sensible, and very much on top of the brief.

    Like you I am following via the wire, but my biggest concern is her surprise that children returning to school on an industrial scale wouldn't cause a greater demand for tests.
    It's possible to both expect a rise and be surprised at the size of the increase. As I mentioned earlier, it was mentioned in the committee that the projections were based on SAGE predictions of the demand.
    OK. In that case what is the point of Dido?
    Do you think her sole purpose is test demand projections?
    I am not entirely sure what function she serves. Is she?
    I'm not even sure what you are asking. Her job is an executive director, not as a statistician.
    Testing is turning into a catastrophic failure. The buck stops with her. If her minions are not up to the job she needs new minions. If the new minions are also failing, perhaps she may feel she is not up to the job herself.
    Catastrophic failure? Never before have so many people been tested, and they have committed to continually increasing it. If we had the testing system from elsewhere transposed here it would only be worse.
    Hancock acknowledging the testing regime is struggling under current demand, suggests to me the five star rating is some way off!
  • Options

    kinabalu said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Biden is up 4pts in NC with Suffolk Uni (A grade pollster on 538)

    B 47
    T 43

    North Carolina so far:

    Mail in votes by party
    Democratic 44,821 55.33%
    Republican 12,460 15.38%
    Unaffiliated 23,525 29.04%
    Libertarian 166 0.20%
    Constitution 11 0.01%
    Green 29 0.04%


    Party Requests (Mail)
    DEMOCRATIC 435,981
    REPUBLICAN 147,986
    UNAFFILIATED 275,660
    LIBERTARIAN 2,808
    CONSTITUTION 203
    GREEN 414

    Grand Total 863,052

    Here's 2016

    Mail in In person On the day

    Dem 60043 / 1247968 / 0
    Rep 76154 / 928187 / 0
    Una 55404 / 779454 / 0
    Unknown 0 / 0 / 1592082

    That lot resulted in 2,362,631 Trump / 2,189,316 Clinton / 187,345 Someone else
    Why do left wing parties in general tend to do better by postal votes and right wing voting in person?

    It's the same here, but not so pronounced

    It always seems a little suspicious to me.
    Remain won the in person vote in 2016. The postals turned it to Leave.

    Does that seem suspicious to you?
    Well the old tended to vote for Brexit more often, so it makes sense to an extent.

    The old also vote more right wing in general, so you'd expect to see the same pattern...but you see the opposite.
    Is that true in the UK? The elderly tend to vote by postal vote and are overwhelmingly Tory. On the other hand some minorities who tend to vote Labour also favour postal voting. I would have thought that the former effect would dominate given the numbers involved. Do you have numbers to hand?
    In the US you often see queues of many hours to vote in Democrat-leaning urban areas owing to underfunding of election machinery which explains why more Democratic voters might prefer to vote by post. I don't think it's a conspiracy.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,986

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Which might ironically help Boris if he can postpone a hard Brexit past the Holyrood elections next May until the end of next year, thus reducing the SNP's grievance opportunities (even if it costs the Tories some council seats in England next year)
    But it wouldn't postpone Hard Brexit, as that would happen New Years Day, Irish Sea customs and all.
    Boris has now committed to not have a border in the Irish Sea, even if only for a few months, so most likely Boris would extend trade talks for that few months and even ask the EU to extend the implementation period, if only for show mainly, to avoid that happening in January and the EU would likely agree given the internal market bill would not have passed yet
    Well, he has committed to two contradictory things then. No extensions and no Irish Sea border (despite the latter being a key part of his oven ready deal).
    Boris will not extend beyond December 2021 but he would probably extend beyond December 2020 to avoid the Irish Sea border until the internal market bill passes at the end of 2021, especially as on current polling he would likely need the DUP in 2024 to have a chance to stay in power.

    That would though of course mean Farage would likely stand Brexit Party candidates in the county and district council elections next May even if it reduces the threat from the SNP at Holyrood
    Hang on, hang on, I thought the end 2020 deadline was absolutely solid, not just one of those 'do or die' deadlines that Boris routinely forgets about. Are you now saying that some smidgen of reality is leaking in?

    Mind you, I'm not sure that there's any mechanism for extension. Maybe with goodwill from the EU something could be fudged, but if that's what Boris wants then blowing up any goodwill that's left isn't obviously the best way to go about it.
    Given the choice between extending until 2021 or not and breaking his promise not to have an Irish Sea border and annoying the DUP then yes Boris will probably ask the EU to extend the implementation period.

    The EU would I am sure be happy to have the UK as a colony for at least another year
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Spectator TV have Anders Tegnell on this evening.

    They should just have posters from this site on.They know far more than he does.
    The Spectator are mounting a pretty big campaign against the government here. They have plenty of influence in tory circles.

    To be fair, the BBC also had Prof. Gupta on Newsnight last night.
    Prof "let's reopen fully nothing bad will happen in mid May we have achieved herd immunity" Gupta?
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,962

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    I'm not following live, but on the basis of the reports of what Dido Harding is saying, she seems to be extremely sensible, and very much on top of the brief.

    Like you I am following via the wire, but my biggest concern is her surprise that children returning to school on an industrial scale wouldn't cause a greater demand for tests.
    It's possible to both expect a rise and be surprised at the size of the increase. As I mentioned earlier, it was mentioned in the committee that the projections were based on SAGE predictions of the demand.
    OK. In that case what is the point of Dido?
    Do you think her sole purpose is test demand projections?
    I am not entirely sure what function she serves. Is she?
    I'm not even sure what you are asking. Her job is an executive director, not as a statistician.
    Testing is turning into a catastrophic failure. The buck stops with her. If her minions are not up to the job she needs new minions. If the new minions are also failing, perhaps she may feel she is not up to the job herself.
    Catastrophic failure? Never before have so many people been tested, and they have committed to continually increasing it. If we had the testing system from elsewhere transposed here it would only be worse.
    Hancock acknowledging the testing regime is struggling under current demand, suggests to me the five star rating is some way off!
    Yeah, but struggling is a far cry from "catastrophic failure", isn't it?
  • Options

    dixiedean said:

    I'm not following live, but on the basis of the reports of what Dido Harding is saying, she seems to be extremely sensible, and very much on top of the brief.

    It is, however, eminently possible to be extremely sensible, on top of the brief and not very good at the job.
    It is, but those attributes are a good start. The vast majority of the criticism she is getting is just uninformed, prejudiced sniping by people who haven't the faintest idea whether she is good at the job because they don't have the faintest idea of the organisational challenges of the job, how much of a mess she inherited, and how hard it is to do anything in the NHS.
    Surely Richard she's way too naive for the job if she didn't expect a big rise in demand for tests when the schools and wider economy reopened?

    Some of PB's superforecasters called that yonks ago.

    https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-head-of-test-and-trace-says-rise-in-demand-for-covid-tests-wasnt-expected-12074297
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,150
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Which might ironically help Boris if he can postpone a hard Brexit past the Holyrood elections next May until the end of next year, thus reducing the SNP's grievance opportunities (even if it costs the Tories some council seats in England next year)
    But it wouldn't postpone Hard Brexit, as that would happen New Years Day, Irish Sea customs and all.
    Boris has now committed to not have a border in the Irish Sea, even if only for a few months, so most likely Boris would extend trade talks for that few months and even ask the EU to extend the implementation period, if only for show mainly, to avoid that happening in January and the EU would likely agree given the internal market bill would not have passed yet
    Well, he has committed to two contradictory things then. No extensions and no Irish Sea border (despite the latter being a key part of his oven ready deal).
    Boris will not extend beyond December 2021 but he would probably extend beyond December 2020 to avoid the Irish Sea border until the internal market bill passes at the end of 2021, especially as on current polling he would likely need the DUP in 2024 to have a chance to stay in power.

    That would though of course mean Farage would likely stand Brexit Party candidates in the county and district council elections next May even if it reduces the threat from the SNP at Holyrood
    Hang on, hang on, I thought the end 2020 deadline was absolutely solid, not just one of those 'do or die' deadlines that Boris routinely forgets about. Are you now saying that some smidgen of reality is leaking in?

    Mind you, I'm not sure that there's any mechanism for extension. Maybe with goodwill from the EU something could be fudged, but if that's what Boris wants then blowing up any goodwill that's left isn't obviously the best way to go about it.
    Given the choice between extending until 2021 or not and breaking his promise not to have an Irish Sea border and annoying the DUP then yes Boris will probably ask the EU to extend the implementation period.

    The EU would I am sure be happy to have the UK as a colony for at least another year
    Paragraph 1. Johnson has said, and why should we not believe him, that there will be NO extension.

    Paragraph 2. You are not normally so silly as to make such a comment.
  • Options
    contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    Alistair said:

    Spectator TV have Anders Tegnell on this evening.

    They should just have posters from this site on.They know far more than he does.
    The Spectator are mounting a pretty big campaign against the government here. They have plenty of influence in tory circles.

    To be fair, the BBC also had Prof. Gupta on Newsnight last night.
    Prof "let's reopen fully nothing bad will happen in mid May we have achieved herd immunity" Gupta?
    Well quite, I mean that's what the Swedes did and.......oh wait.......

  • Options
    Argh

    That Talk of the Sound piece I posted reckons its very easy for a US postal vote to be disqualified, even when it is sent in. The process is actually quite tricky and bureaucratic, and any small mishaps mean you are disenfranchised.

    In the school election in New Rochelle run by Cuomo only 17% of unsolicited ballots were ever returned.

    Of those, 14% were disqualified.

    Only 80% of solicited ballots were returned, if I read that piece right.

    OK its a school election but it is clear that, ballots, whether solicited or unsolicited, do not mean votes. Not by a long chalk.

    Let's make up some numbers and see what happens.

    Suppose 3-in-10 votes this year are by post, and they break 2:1 to Democrats, but 10% of ballots are disqualified.

    I think that changes a 50:50 contest to a 49:48 victory for the Republicans.

    And those numbers could be worse for Democrats.
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,150
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    I'm not following live, but on the basis of the reports of what Dido Harding is saying, she seems to be extremely sensible, and very much on top of the brief.

    Like you I am following via the wire, but my biggest concern is her surprise that children returning to school on an industrial scale wouldn't cause a greater demand for tests.
    It's possible to both expect a rise and be surprised at the size of the increase. As I mentioned earlier, it was mentioned in the committee that the projections were based on SAGE predictions of the demand.
    OK. In that case what is the point of Dido?
    Do you think her sole purpose is test demand projections?
    I am not entirely sure what function she serves. Is she?
    I'm not even sure what you are asking. Her job is an executive director, not as a statistician.
    Testing is turning into a catastrophic failure. The buck stops with her. If her minions are not up to the job she needs new minions. If the new minions are also failing, perhaps she may feel she is not up to the job herself.
    Catastrophic failure? Never before have so many people been tested, and they have committed to continually increasing it. If we had the testing system from elsewhere transposed here it would only be worse.
    Hancock acknowledging the testing regime is struggling under current demand, suggests to me the five star rating is some way off!
    Yeah, but struggling is a far cry from "catastrophic failure", isn't it?
    Can we agree that your 'struggling' is my 'catastrophic failure'. Time to go home!
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,150

    dixiedean said:

    I'm not following live, but on the basis of the reports of what Dido Harding is saying, she seems to be extremely sensible, and very much on top of the brief.

    It is, however, eminently possible to be extremely sensible, on top of the brief and not very good at the job.
    It is, but those attributes are a good start. The vast majority of the criticism she is getting is just uninformed, prejudiced sniping by people who haven't the faintest idea whether she is good at the job because they don't have the faintest idea of the organisational challenges of the job, how much of a mess she inherited, and how hard it is to do anything in the NHS.
    Surely Richard she's way too naive for the job if she didn't expect a big rise in demand for tests when the schools and wider economy reopened?

    Some of PB's superforecasters called that yonks ago.

    https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-head-of-test-and-trace-says-rise-in-demand-for-covid-tests-wasnt-expected-12074297
    JRM tells us to stop carping about testing, so I will!
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,986

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Which might ironically help Boris if he can postpone a hard Brexit past the Holyrood elections next May until the end of next year, thus reducing the SNP's grievance opportunities (even if it costs the Tories some council seats in England next year)
    But it wouldn't postpone Hard Brexit, as that would happen New Years Day, Irish Sea customs and all.
    Boris has now committed to not have a border in the Irish Sea, even if only for a few months, so most likely Boris would extend trade talks for that few months and even ask the EU to extend the implementation period, if only for show mainly, to avoid that happening in January and the EU would likely agree given the internal market bill would not have passed yet
    Well, he has committed to two contradictory things then. No extensions and no Irish Sea border (despite the latter being a key part of his oven ready deal).
    Boris will not extend beyond December 2021 but he would probably extend beyond December 2020 to avoid the Irish Sea border until the internal market bill passes at the end of 2021, especially as on current polling he would likely need the DUP in 2024 to have a chance to stay in power.

    That would though of course mean Farage would likely stand Brexit Party candidates in the county and district council elections next May even if it reduces the threat from the SNP at Holyrood
    Hang on, hang on, I thought the end 2020 deadline was absolutely solid, not just one of those 'do or die' deadlines that Boris routinely forgets about. Are you now saying that some smidgen of reality is leaking in?

    Mind you, I'm not sure that there's any mechanism for extension. Maybe with goodwill from the EU something could be fudged, but if that's what Boris wants then blowing up any goodwill that's left isn't obviously the best way to go about it.
    Given the choice between extending until 2021 or not and breaking his promise not to have an Irish Sea border and annoying the DUP then yes Boris will probably ask the EU to extend the implementation period.

    The EU would I am sure be happy to have the UK as a colony for at least another year
    Paragraph 1. Johnson has said, and why should we not believe him, that there will be NO extension.

    Paragraph 2. You are not normally so silly as to make such a comment.
    Boris has also now said there will be no border in the Irish Sea and why should we not believe him
  • Options

    Scott_xP said:
    Dido does have a function, she makes Johnson look supremely competent.
    'I think that I don't think' kinda says it all.
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,150
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Which might ironically help Boris if he can postpone a hard Brexit past the Holyrood elections next May until the end of next year, thus reducing the SNP's grievance opportunities (even if it costs the Tories some council seats in England next year)
    But it wouldn't postpone Hard Brexit, as that would happen New Years Day, Irish Sea customs and all.
    Boris has now committed to not have a border in the Irish Sea, even if only for a few months, so most likely Boris would extend trade talks for that few months and even ask the EU to extend the implementation period, if only for show mainly, to avoid that happening in January and the EU would likely agree given the internal market bill would not have passed yet
    Well, he has committed to two contradictory things then. No extensions and no Irish Sea border (despite the latter being a key part of his oven ready deal).
    Boris will not extend beyond December 2021 but he would probably extend beyond December 2020 to avoid the Irish Sea border until the internal market bill passes at the end of 2021, especially as on current polling he would likely need the DUP in 2024 to have a chance to stay in power.

    That would though of course mean Farage would likely stand Brexit Party candidates in the county and district council elections next May even if it reduces the threat from the SNP at Holyrood
    Hang on, hang on, I thought the end 2020 deadline was absolutely solid, not just one of those 'do or die' deadlines that Boris routinely forgets about. Are you now saying that some smidgen of reality is leaking in?

    Mind you, I'm not sure that there's any mechanism for extension. Maybe with goodwill from the EU something could be fudged, but if that's what Boris wants then blowing up any goodwill that's left isn't obviously the best way to go about it.
    Given the choice between extending until 2021 or not and breaking his promise not to have an Irish Sea border and annoying the DUP then yes Boris will probably ask the EU to extend the implementation period.

    The EU would I am sure be happy to have the UK as a colony for at least another year
    Paragraph 1. Johnson has said, and why should we not believe him, that there will be NO extension.

    Paragraph 2. You are not normally so silly as to make such a comment.
    Boris has also now said there will be no border in the Irish Sea and why should we not believe him
    I do believe him, but that means border posts at Lurgan, and some very naughty nationalists will not like that.
  • Options
    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,079
    Can’t wait for the PB armchair experts to come along and explain why this expert is wrong.

    https://twitter.com/joshuarozenberg/status/1306618020740169730?s=21
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,962

    Can’t wait for the PB armchair experts to come along and explain why this expert is wrong.

    https://twitter.com/joshuarozenberg/status/1306618020740169730?s=21

    What, Parliament isn't sovereign? :o
  • Options
    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,079
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Which might ironically help Boris if he can postpone a hard Brexit past the Holyrood elections next May until the end of next year, thus reducing the SNP's grievance opportunities (even if it costs the Tories some council seats in England next year)
    But it wouldn't postpone Hard Brexit, as that would happen New Years Day, Irish Sea customs and all.
    Boris has now committed to not have a border in the Irish Sea, even if only for a few months, so most likely Boris would extend trade talks for that few months and even ask the EU to extend the implementation period, if only for show mainly, to avoid that happening in January and the EU would likely agree given the internal market bill would not have passed yet
    Well, he has committed to two contradictory things then. No extensions and no Irish Sea border (despite the latter being a key part of his oven ready deal).
    Boris will not extend beyond December 2021 but he would probably extend beyond December 2020 to avoid the Irish Sea border until the internal market bill passes at the end of 2021, especially as on current polling he would likely need the DUP in 2024 to have a chance to stay in power.

    That would though of course mean Farage would likely stand Brexit Party candidates in the county and district council elections next May even if it reduces the threat from the SNP at Holyrood
    Hang on, hang on, I thought the end 2020 deadline was absolutely solid, not just one of those 'do or die' deadlines that Boris routinely forgets about. Are you now saying that some smidgen of reality is leaking in?

    Mind you, I'm not sure that there's any mechanism for extension. Maybe with goodwill from the EU something could be fudged, but if that's what Boris wants then blowing up any goodwill that's left isn't obviously the best way to go about it.
    Given the choice between extending until 2021 or not and breaking his promise not to have an Irish Sea border and annoying the DUP then yes Boris will probably ask the EU to extend the implementation period.

    The EU would I am sure be happy to have the UK as a colony for at least another year
    Paragraph 1. Johnson has said, and why should we not believe him, that there will be NO extension.

    Paragraph 2. You are not normally so silly as to make such a comment.
    Boris has also now said there will be no border in the Irish Sea and why should we not believe him
    Because it seems that everything he says is a lie, perhaps?
  • Options
    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,079
    RobD said:

    Can’t wait for the PB armchair experts to come along and explain why this expert is wrong.

    https://twitter.com/joshuarozenberg/status/1306618020740169730?s=21

    What, Parliament isn't sovereign? :o
    The argument is that so called “ouster” clauses in parliamentary legislation have always failed in the past.

    I don’t really know enough to comment, but Lord Pannick has already defeated the Government twice.
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,955

    Alistair said:


    There's a visible increase in the number of hospitalisations on that graph.

    And once again, if you wait till deaths start rising you are too late.

    Looking more closely, still small numbers in absolute terms, but the rise is certainly worrying:

    twitter.com/ganeshran/status/1306612062785802241
    I am not sure the message is getting out there. I have been out and about today, drove past a number of pubs that were rammed*, people very casually wandering around no masks, etc.

    * Given it is Thursday afternoon, I presume oldies and / or people still on furlough.
    Just passed through Central Newcastle on foot on eve of lockdown. Quiet, plenty of masks.
    However, very poor social distancing. Many not even making a token effort. Especially in the bank. No staff in masks, casual groups of staff chatting in huddles. Then marching up to greet customers.
    Many businesses not enforcing masks. Nor track and trace. Seems to be voluntary. Pubs full. No great surprise it's on the rise really.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,986

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Which might ironically help Boris if he can postpone a hard Brexit past the Holyrood elections next May until the end of next year, thus reducing the SNP's grievance opportunities (even if it costs the Tories some council seats in England next year)
    But it wouldn't postpone Hard Brexit, as that would happen New Years Day, Irish Sea customs and all.
    Boris has now committed to not have a border in the Irish Sea, even if only for a few months, so most likely Boris would extend trade talks for that few months and even ask the EU to extend the implementation period, if only for show mainly, to avoid that happening in January and the EU would likely agree given the internal market bill would not have passed yet
    Well, he has committed to two contradictory things then. No extensions and no Irish Sea border (despite the latter being a key part of his oven ready deal).
    Boris will not extend beyond December 2021 but he would probably extend beyond December 2020 to avoid the Irish Sea border until the internal market bill passes at the end of 2021, especially as on current polling he would likely need the DUP in 2024 to have a chance to stay in power.

    That would though of course mean Farage would likely stand Brexit Party candidates in the county and district council elections next May even if it reduces the threat from the SNP at Holyrood
    Hang on, hang on, I thought the end 2020 deadline was absolutely solid, not just one of those 'do or die' deadlines that Boris routinely forgets about. Are you now saying that some smidgen of reality is leaking in?

    Mind you, I'm not sure that there's any mechanism for extension. Maybe with goodwill from the EU something could be fudged, but if that's what Boris wants then blowing up any goodwill that's left isn't obviously the best way to go about it.
    Given the choice between extending until 2021 or not and breaking his promise not to have an Irish Sea border and annoying the DUP then yes Boris will probably ask the EU to extend the implementation period.

    The EU would I am sure be happy to have the UK as a colony for at least another year
    Paragraph 1. Johnson has said, and why should we not believe him, that there will be NO extension.

    Paragraph 2. You are not normally so silly as to make such a comment.
    Boris has also now said there will be no border in the Irish Sea and why should we not believe him
    I do believe him, but that means border posts at Lurgan, and some very naughty nationalists will not like that.
    There will only be border posts at Lurgan if the EU and Irish Republic build them
  • Options
    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,079
    edited September 2020
    Edit
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,962
    Only 77% would report murder? :o
  • Options
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Which might ironically help Boris if he can postpone a hard Brexit past the Holyrood elections next May until the end of next year, thus reducing the SNP's grievance opportunities (even if it costs the Tories some council seats in England next year)
    But it wouldn't postpone Hard Brexit, as that would happen New Years Day, Irish Sea customs and all.
    Boris has now committed to not have a border in the Irish Sea, even if only for a few months, so most likely Boris would extend trade talks for that few months and even ask the EU to extend the implementation period, if only for show mainly, to avoid that happening in January and the EU would likely agree given the internal market bill would not have passed yet
    Well, he has committed to two contradictory things then. No extensions and no Irish Sea border (despite the latter being a key part of his oven ready deal).
    Boris will not extend beyond December 2021 but he would probably extend beyond December 2020 to avoid the Irish Sea border until the internal market bill passes at the end of 2021, especially as on current polling he would likely need the DUP in 2024 to have a chance to stay in power.

    That would though of course mean Farage would likely stand Brexit Party candidates in the county and district council elections next May even if it reduces the threat from the SNP at Holyrood
    Hang on, hang on, I thought the end 2020 deadline was absolutely solid, not just one of those 'do or die' deadlines that Boris routinely forgets about. Are you now saying that some smidgen of reality is leaking in?

    Mind you, I'm not sure that there's any mechanism for extension. Maybe with goodwill from the EU something could be fudged, but if that's what Boris wants then blowing up any goodwill that's left isn't obviously the best way to go about it.
    Given the choice between extending until 2021 or not and breaking his promise not to have an Irish Sea border and annoying the DUP then yes Boris will probably ask the EU to extend the implementation period.

    The EU would I am sure be happy to have the UK as a colony for at least another year
    Paragraph 1. Johnson has said, and why should we not believe him, that there will be NO extension.

    Paragraph 2. You are not normally so silly as to make such a comment.
    Boris has also now said there will be no border in the Irish Sea and why should we not believe him
    Does that include the Irish Sea between Holyhead and Ireland?
  • Options
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Which might ironically help Boris if he can postpone a hard Brexit past the Holyrood elections next May until the end of next year, thus reducing the SNP's grievance opportunities (even if it costs the Tories some council seats in England next year)
    But it wouldn't postpone Hard Brexit, as that would happen New Years Day, Irish Sea customs and all.
    Boris has now committed to not have a border in the Irish Sea, even if only for a few months, so most likely Boris would extend trade talks for that few months and even ask the EU to extend the implementation period, if only for show mainly, to avoid that happening in January and the EU would likely agree given the internal market bill would not have passed yet
    Well, he has committed to two contradictory things then. No extensions and no Irish Sea border (despite the latter being a key part of his oven ready deal).
    Boris will not extend beyond December 2021 but he would probably extend beyond December 2020 to avoid the Irish Sea border until the internal market bill passes at the end of 2021, especially as on current polling he would likely need the DUP in 2024 to have a chance to stay in power.

    That would though of course mean Farage would likely stand Brexit Party candidates in the county and district council elections next May even if it reduces the threat from the SNP at Holyrood
    Hang on, hang on, I thought the end 2020 deadline was absolutely solid, not just one of those 'do or die' deadlines that Boris routinely forgets about. Are you now saying that some smidgen of reality is leaking in?

    Mind you, I'm not sure that there's any mechanism for extension. Maybe with goodwill from the EU something could be fudged, but if that's what Boris wants then blowing up any goodwill that's left isn't obviously the best way to go about it.
    Given the choice between extending until 2021 or not and breaking his promise not to have an Irish Sea border and annoying the DUP then yes Boris will probably ask the EU to extend the implementation period.

    The EU would I am sure be happy to have the UK as a colony for at least another year
    Paragraph 1. Johnson has said, and why should we not believe him, that there will be NO extension.

    Paragraph 2. You are not normally so silly as to make such a comment.
    Boris has also now said there will be no border in the Irish Sea and why should we not believe him
    I think you've inserted the word 'not' by mistake?
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,974
    Mango said:

    I wonder how many lefties here will suddenly find they like the Toadmeister?
    None. He is exactly the kind of prick who should disappear for ever.
    You couldn't afford the bribe. No-one could!
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,892
    HYUFD said:
    The issue of course being that Biden completely understands our position.

    It's the fuqwits in Downing Street who negotiated and signed it that apparently didn't know what it meant...
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Alistair said:

    Spectator TV have Anders Tegnell on this evening.

    They should just have posters from this site on.They know far more than he does.
    The Spectator are mounting a pretty big campaign against the government here. They have plenty of influence in tory circles.

    To be fair, the BBC also had Prof. Gupta on Newsnight last night.
    Prof "let's reopen fully nothing bad will happen in mid May we have achieved herd immunity" Gupta?
    Well quite, I mean that's what the Swedes did and.......oh wait.......

    Mate, you slunk away last time you tried to pull this and got bombarded with links showing the various ways Sweden is locked down.

    Shall we do it again?
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,974
    dixiedean said:

    Alistair said:


    There's a visible increase in the number of hospitalisations on that graph.

    And once again, if you wait till deaths start rising you are too late.

    Looking more closely, still small numbers in absolute terms, but the rise is certainly worrying:

    twitter.com/ganeshran/status/1306612062785802241
    I am not sure the message is getting out there. I have been out and about today, drove past a number of pubs that were rammed*, people very casually wandering around no masks, etc.

    * Given it is Thursday afternoon, I presume oldies and / or people still on furlough.
    Just passed through Central Newcastle on foot on eve of lockdown. Quiet, plenty of masks.
    However, very poor social distancing. Many not even making a token effort. Especially in the bank. No staff in masks, casual groups of staff chatting in huddles. Then marching up to greet customers.
    Many businesses not enforcing masks. Nor track and trace. Seems to be voluntary. Pubs full. No great surprise it's on the rise really.
    Went to a pub for lunch. I think we were the only people who were masked on entry. The staff weren't. Ate outside, plenty of room between tables.
    Mostly couples/parties of two. Couple of business meetings, one with two people sharing a laptop.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,594

    Alistair said:


    There's a visible increase in the number of hospitalisations on that graph.

    And once again, if you wait till deaths start rising you are too late.

    Looking more closely, still small numbers in absolute terms, but the rise is certainly worrying:

    https://twitter.com/ganeshran/status/1306612062785802241
    In Leicester 3 weeks ago we had 8 Covid-19 patients, 2 weeks ago 13, 1 week ago 16, yesterday 32 inpatients.

    Its more than a blip now.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,235

    Can’t wait for the PB armchair experts to come along and explain why this expert is wrong.

    https://twitter.com/joshuarozenberg/status/1306618020740169730?s=21

    I don't think that headline is an accurate summary of what the piece says. It makes the very valid point that seeking to oust judicial review is a very bad idea, not least because one day there will be an alternative government in power seeking to do things that you think the court should stop. It also mentions a couple of cases where the courts have read attempted ouster clauses very restrictively and found ways around them. But it doesn't say that it is impossible.
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    sladeslade Posts: 1,930
    Story in my local paper that Zoflora made by a local company kills the covid 19 virus. Better not tell Donald Trump.
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    dixiedean said:

    Alistair said:


    There's a visible increase in the number of hospitalisations on that graph.

    And once again, if you wait till deaths start rising you are too late.

    Looking more closely, still small numbers in absolute terms, but the rise is certainly worrying:

    twitter.com/ganeshran/status/1306612062785802241
    I am not sure the message is getting out there. I have been out and about today, drove past a number of pubs that were rammed*, people very casually wandering around no masks, etc.

    * Given it is Thursday afternoon, I presume oldies and / or people still on furlough.
    Just passed through Central Newcastle on foot on eve of lockdown. Quiet, plenty of masks.
    However, very poor social distancing. Many not even making a token effort. Especially in the bank. No staff in masks, casual groups of staff chatting in huddles. Then marching up to greet customers.
    Many businesses not enforcing masks. Nor track and trace. Seems to be voluntary. Pubs full. No great surprise it's on the rise really.
    When people wear masks they do not think they have to social distance.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,962
    DavidL said:

    Can’t wait for the PB armchair experts to come along and explain why this expert is wrong.

    https://twitter.com/joshuarozenberg/status/1306618020740169730?s=21

    I don't think that headline is an accurate summary of what the piece says. It makes the very valid point that seeking to oust judicial review is a very bad idea, not least because one day there will be an alternative government in power seeking to do things that you think the court should stop. It also mentions a couple of cases where the courts have read attempted ouster clauses very restrictively and found ways around them. But it doesn't say that it is impossible.
    Thank you, PB armchair expert.

    ;)
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,541

    Nigelb said:

    dixiedean said:

    I'm not following live, but on the basis of the reports of what Dido Harding is saying, she seems to be extremely sensible, and very much on top of the brief.

    It is, however, eminently possible to be extremely sensible, on top of the brief and not very good at the job.
    It is, but those attributes are a good start. The vast majority of the criticism she is getting is just uninformed, prejudiced sniping by people who haven't the faintest idea whether she is good at the job because they don't have the faintest idea of the organisational challenges of the job, how much of a mess she inherited, and how hard it is to do anything in the NHS.
    And both questions and testimony aren't really helping give anyone any better idea of any of those things.
    Of course not. It's committee of politicians. Are you new here? :)
    Didn't they include our own @Tissue_Price ?
    Show some respect ! :smile:
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,917

    Argh

    That Talk of the Sound piece I posted reckons its very easy for a US postal vote to be disqualified, even when it is sent in. The process is actually quite tricky and bureaucratic, and any small mishaps mean you are disenfranchised.

    In the school election in New Rochelle run by Cuomo only 17% of unsolicited ballots were ever returned.

    Of those, 14% were disqualified.

    Only 80% of solicited ballots were returned, if I read that piece right.

    OK its a school election but it is clear that, ballots, whether solicited or unsolicited, do not mean votes. Not by a long chalk.

    Let's make up some numbers and see what happens.

    Suppose 3-in-10 votes this year are by post, and they break 2:1 to Democrats, but 10% of ballots are disqualified.

    I think that changes a 50:50 contest to a 49:48 victory for the Republicans.

    And those numbers could be worse for Democrats.
    North Carolina provides some actual data on this:.

    81005 Accepted
    91 Pending
    1464 Witness info incomplete
    609 Spoiled
    5 Signature different
    20 Returned undeliverable
    46 Pending cure
    5 Conflict
    7 Accepted - cured
    3 Duplicate
    1 E-transmission failure

    So the current disqualification rate is 2.6%
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,962
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    dixiedean said:

    I'm not following live, but on the basis of the reports of what Dido Harding is saying, she seems to be extremely sensible, and very much on top of the brief.

    It is, however, eminently possible to be extremely sensible, on top of the brief and not very good at the job.
    It is, but those attributes are a good start. The vast majority of the criticism she is getting is just uninformed, prejudiced sniping by people who haven't the faintest idea whether she is good at the job because they don't have the faintest idea of the organisational challenges of the job, how much of a mess she inherited, and how hard it is to do anything in the NHS.
    And both questions and testimony aren't really helping give anyone any better idea of any of those things.
    Of course not. It's committee of politicians. Are you new here? :)
    Didn't they include our own @Tissue_Price ?
    Show some respect ! :smile:
    We should have PMed him to ask about pooled testing!
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,959
    There are some slightly concerning polls out for Biden today.

    First, USC (which called 2016 pretty much spot on) sees Biden drop back to 50% in their daily tracking. He was at 52% a few days ago.

    Secondly, while the polls from Monmouth, Kaiser and Suffolk all show Biden ahead in Florida, Arizona, and North Carolina, the margins are all small.

    The pattern that seems to be playing out is that Trump is eating into the DKs/WNVs at the moment, and that's something that I expect to continue through to polling day. The question becomes, can Biden hold on to a c. 50.5%+ share in the polls, because if he can then it's hard (although not impossible) for Trump to win.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,541
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,235
    Incidentally the article linked by @Gallowgate led me to another: https://rozenberg.substack.com/p/british-lawyer-kicked-off-eu-court

    The British Judge Eleanor Sharpston QC had obtained an interim injunction against her removal pending determination of her application to remain a judge for the remaining year of her contract. The CJEU decided to recall the interim injunction and then appointed her successor within minutes, all without the troublesome need to inform her or her lawyers of the hearing or giving them any opportunity to be heard.

    Describing the CJEU as a court in any conventional sense is an insult to impartial judiciary everywhere. They are a partisan bunch of fanatics with a political purpose. It is not hard to see why the UK government is so unwilling to have them adjudicate anything. Whatever the merits of her case this was utterly disgraceful.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,541
    Scott_xP said:
    "Today's meeting with Michael Gove fell far short of our expectations."

    Has a sadder sentence ever been written ?
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,814
    edited September 2020
    HYUFD said:
    They could almost have put "sleepy Joe" on the end of the sentence... :D
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    rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Which might ironically help Boris if he can postpone a hard Brexit past the Holyrood elections next May until the end of next year, thus reducing the SNP's grievance opportunities (even if it costs the Tories some council seats in England next year)
    But it wouldn't postpone Hard Brexit, as that would happen New Years Day, Irish Sea customs and all.
    Boris has now committed to not have a border in the Irish Sea, even if only for a few months, so most likely Boris would extend trade talks for that few months and even ask the EU to extend the implementation period, if only for show mainly, to avoid that happening in January and the EU would likely agree given the internal market bill would not have passed yet
    Well, he has committed to two contradictory things then. No extensions and no Irish Sea border (despite the latter being a key part of his oven ready deal).
    Boris will not extend beyond December 2021 but he would probably extend beyond December 2020 to avoid the Irish Sea border until the internal market bill passes at the end of 2021, especially as on current polling he would likely need the DUP in 2024 to have a chance to stay in power.

    That would though of course mean Farage would likely stand Brexit Party candidates in the county and district council elections next May even if it reduces the threat from the SNP at Holyrood
    Hang on, hang on, I thought the end 2020 deadline was absolutely solid, not just one of those 'do or die' deadlines that Boris routinely forgets about. Are you now saying that some smidgen of reality is leaking in?

    Mind you, I'm not sure that there's any mechanism for extension. Maybe with goodwill from the EU something could be fudged, but if that's what Boris wants then blowing up any goodwill that's left isn't obviously the best way to go about it.
    IIRC the window for extending the transition period more or less without question ended in July. Any future extension has to be agreed by the EU, the EU27 parliaments and any regional parliaments of the same so empowered. I.e. Walloonia can veto the extension if it wants.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,541
    RobD said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    dixiedean said:

    I'm not following live, but on the basis of the reports of what Dido Harding is saying, she seems to be extremely sensible, and very much on top of the brief.

    It is, however, eminently possible to be extremely sensible, on top of the brief and not very good at the job.
    It is, but those attributes are a good start. The vast majority of the criticism she is getting is just uninformed, prejudiced sniping by people who haven't the faintest idea whether she is good at the job because they don't have the faintest idea of the organisational challenges of the job, how much of a mess she inherited, and how hard it is to do anything in the NHS.
    And both questions and testimony aren't really helping give anyone any better idea of any of those things.
    Of course not. It's committee of politicians. Are you new here? :)
    Didn't they include our own @Tissue_Price ?
    Show some respect ! :smile:
    We should have PMed him to ask about pooled testing!
    Next time, eh ?
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,365
    UK cases, by specimen date

    image
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,365
    UK cases, by specimen date, scaled to 100K population

    image
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,365
    edited September 2020
    UK case summaries

    image
    image
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    image
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607

    dixiedean said:

    I'm not following live, but on the basis of the reports of what Dido Harding is saying, she seems to be extremely sensible, and very much on top of the brief.

    It is, however, eminently possible to be extremely sensible, on top of the brief and not very good at the job.
    It is, but those attributes are a good start. The vast majority of the criticism she is getting is just uninformed, prejudiced sniping by people who haven't the faintest idea whether she is good at the job because they don't have the faintest idea of the organisational challenges of the job, how much of a mess she inherited, and how hard it is to do anything in the NHS.
    Surely Richard she's way too naive for the job if she didn't expect a big rise in demand for tests when the schools and wider economy reopened?

    Some of PB's superforecasters called that yonks ago.

    https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-head-of-test-and-trace-says-rise-in-demand-for-covid-tests-wasnt-expected-12074297
    We even had graphs from Europe and Scotland showing exactly that. She's the wrong person for the job. We need someone who understands data modelling to be in charge and a second in command who has got logistics experience. She has neither.
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,365
    UK deaths

    image
    image
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,365
    UK hospitals

    image
    image
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,962
    Am I reading this chart right @Malmesbury, there are no hospital cases in Scotland at all?
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    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,955
    edited September 2020
    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:
    "Today's meeting with Michael Gove fell far short of our expectations."

    Has a sadder sentence ever been written ?
    Today's meeting with Michael Gove was everything I always dreamed of and more?
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    rcs1000 said:

    There are some slightly concerning polls out for Biden today.

    First, USC (which called 2016 pretty much spot on) sees Biden drop back to 50% in their daily tracking. He was at 52% a few days ago.

    Secondly, while the polls from Monmouth, Kaiser and Suffolk all show Biden ahead in Florida, Arizona, and North Carolina, the margins are all small.

    The pattern that seems to be playing out is that Trump is eating into the DKs/WNVs at the moment, and that's something that I expect to continue through to polling day. The question becomes, can Biden hold on to a c. 50.5%+ share in the polls, because if he can then it's hard (although not impossible) for Trump to win.

    I think it's more UNC since they show a rolling result day by day are now picking up on trump gaining some points. They were of the high end a week or so ago +12 or so to Biden, to the point where I was seeing them as an outlier. Now they are in with the pack, be interesting to see if they stabilise around 6-8. Shame no more national polls so far today to compare against.

    In terms of the swing states AZ is the one for concern, but other recent polls have him a fair bit higher. What I would say the senate results for that pollster (Monmouth) has Kelly only 1% ahead which feels very off when looking at the string showing her had with nearly every other poll recently.
    Florida seems about right, as with other pollsters showing it is very tight. Wonder if Bloomberg's $100 million surge there will have any affect. NC is actually a good poll for Biden, 3-4% which matches CNN's pool of yesterday however polls were showing it tied or a very sight Trump lead a few days ago, so might be in outlier territory.
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,365
    RobD said:

    Am I reading this chart right @Malmesbury, there are no hospital cases in Scotland at all?

    Bunch of N/As in their data - trying to find out what the actual numbers are.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,541
    dixiedean said:

    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:
    "Today's meeting with Michael Gove fell far short of our expectations."

    Has a sadder sentence ever been written ?
    Today's meeting with Michael Gove was everything I always dreamed of and more?
    That would be Lovecraftian horror.
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    nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    dixiedean said:

    Alistair said:


    There's a visible increase in the number of hospitalisations on that graph.

    And once again, if you wait till deaths start rising you are too late.

    Looking more closely, still small numbers in absolute terms, but the rise is certainly worrying:

    twitter.com/ganeshran/status/1306612062785802241
    I am not sure the message is getting out there. I have been out and about today, drove past a number of pubs that were rammed*, people very casually wandering around no masks, etc.

    * Given it is Thursday afternoon, I presume oldies and / or people still on furlough.
    Just passed through Central Newcastle on foot on eve of lockdown. Quiet, plenty of masks.
    However, very poor social distancing. Many not even making a token effort. Especially in the bank. No staff in masks, casual groups of staff chatting in huddles. Then marching up to greet customers.
    Many businesses not enforcing masks. Nor track and trace. Seems to be voluntary. Pubs full. No great surprise it's on the rise really.
    When people wear masks they do not think they have to social distance.
    Bollocks
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,541
    The Trump administration is really going all out on the stolen election nonsense.
    This is the Attorney General of the United States...

    https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/09/bill-barr-undermining-election-mail-voting.html
    ...In recent days, Barr appears to have inched away from his earlier claims that voting by mail was uniquely susceptible to foreign election tampering. Having pressed that particular hypothesis in early June in an interview with the New York Times, then in a July House Judiciary Committee hearing (a hearing in which he also testified he had no reason to believe the election would be rigged), he parroted the president’s unfounded talking points about foreign interference for just mail-in ballots. Barr was asked about it again this month by CNN’s Wolf Blitzer, who requested some basis for his now-frequent claims that “a foreign country could send thousands of fake ballots, thousands of fake ballots to people, and it might be impossible to detect.” Barr replied, “I’m basing that—as I’ve said repeatedly, I’m basing that on logic.” Barr continues to insist then that foreign counterfeiting of mail-in ballots is a legitimate threat for which he has no evidence or proof.


    But the foreign tampering story is not sufficient to his purposes, and so Barr has deftly turned his sights once again on the enemy within. His newest claim seems to be that it’s Americans, not foreigners, who will steal the 2020 election—by buying, selling, browbeating, and intimidating otherwise good and honest voters who attempt to vote by mail. In that same CNN interview, Barr was testing the new theory: that it would be domestic, not foreign, enemies who will tamper with mail-in-ballots. While he had no idea how often this new vote harvesting thing had occurred (saying it again here: It’s vanishingly rare) Barr asserted that “we indicted someone in Texas” who had stolen 1,700 ballots. “He made them out and voted for the person he wanted to,” he told Blitzer. That claim was also later confirmed as false...
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,541
    For those wanting to read the full study protocol for the Moderna vaccine*, they've published it in full here:
    https://www.modernatx.com/sites/default/files/mRNA-1273-P301-Protocol.pdf

    Commendable openness.

    *I suspect I won't crash their server by posting the link.
This discussion has been closed.