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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Sunak getting close to Starmer in the next PM betting

SystemSystem Posts: 12,169
edited August 2020 in General
imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Sunak getting close to Starmer in the next PM betting

Since Stamer became LAB leader on April 4th his lead in the next PM betting has been shaved by much more interest in the man who was a junior minister barely 10 months ago, Rishi Sunak.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,065
    Firsty-first-first.
  • TomsToms Posts: 2,478
    edited August 2020
    1st in 1st out?
    Apparently not I guess.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,137
    Sunak's best hope is to be Major to Starmer's Kinnock and Boris' Thatcher if we go to WTO terms Brexit and it proves to be as unpopular as the poll tax
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    Third. He has an unusually narrow head.
  • FPT but On Topic

    Where can I see previous entrants in the PB hall of fame?

    How about Sunak as Next Prime Minister @ 250/1 for a Hall of Fame entry?

    If that bet does come in, and I'm assuming COVID would be gone by then, I hope we could maybe have a drinks meet up around then. Would be a nice little bet to come in.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205
    edited August 2020
    FPT:
    HYUFD said:

    I know Germans who came to London to work in the city because they get paid more and it is a global city in the way no German city is and they are prepared to pay high rent for that. For example one German friend I was at university with was a city lawyer in London and has now moved to New York city having passed the New York bar.

    If you want to pay less move to cheaper home counties like Kent and Essex and commute or WFH
    Last year I visited Munich, it seemed like a great place to live; I'm not particularly naturally inclined to cities either.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,366
    NHS hospital numbers

    Headline - 10
    7 days - 6
    Yesterday - 0

    image
    image
    image
    image
  • I wonder if there are any E-bike companies I can invest in, since I am reliably informed it's going to replace the train as the long-distance form of transportation for Brits
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,862
    eristdoof said:

    Firsty-first-first.

    Not according to my algorithm.
  • FPT
    guybrush said:

    MaxPB said:

    Lol e-bikes are not the solution to any kind of problem for medium distance commuters. I can cycle to work, but it's not very far from Hampstead to Vintners Place. I can't imagine doing 40 miles there and back on an e-bike, that's not realistic.

    But how many people make a 40 mile commute?

    According to a quick Google search the average London commute is 13 miles, not 40 miles. Entirely feasible on an ebike which costs the fraction of a season ticket - and that's just one of many viable alternatives to rail.
    You suggested I get an E-bike to get around rail commuting, or are you now accepting that's not an option.

    I've just had a look at helicopters
    I think it is an option - one of many.

    If your commute costs £7,000 to get a season ticket then a £2,000 ebike seems like a very good idea to me. After 5 years you would have saved £33,000 in your commuting costs, and you'll be fit and healthy. Plus as I understand it ebikes don't leave you sweaty either.

    But as I said its just one option of many. Especially if your commute is just ~13 miles as is average.
    I really shouldn't respond to this obvious trolling, but it has wound me up a little. The geography and commuting patterns London have evolved around the various rail corridors. There is not the road space for the crazy 2020 version of 1970s Beijing you seem to be proposing.

    Face it, the railways have been built and serve a useful social purpose. Rail travel in most countries is subsidised by the taxpayer, they have never been profitable. But they are necessary, because London (maybe other cities too) have grown up around them. The capacity is there, has by-in large been paid, for, and should be used. Unless your saying we should abandon central London. There's no road space for the alternative.
    I am not for one second suggesting that rail be abandoned altogether, that would be utterly insane. I am suggesting rail can be - and is - one option of many for people to use. As demonstrated by the fact that rail passenger figures have wildly varied in the past and present.

    To me it would make sense eg if people with 40 mile commutes or health conditions etc take the train while people with 2-3 mile commutes consider alternatives like buses or ebikes etc

    All I was trying to say is that options do exist. The fact that passenger numbers have frequently changed is proof positive of that.

    PS if rail has been "by-in large been paid for" already then it shouldn't be too expensive to run either. A key reason rail is so expensive is because passenger numbers are going up so more capacity is needed, it is basic supply and demand. If passenger numbers start to go down, or even stabilise, then it should be possible to run a cheaper service.
  • I wonder if there are any E-bike companies I can invest in, since I am reliably informed it's going to replace the train as the long-distance form of transportation for Brits

    The long-distance form of transportation for Brits is the car.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    edited August 2020
    FTPT
    HYUFD said:
    I found the poll. http://cdn.cnn.com/cnn/2020/images/08/16/rel8a.-.2020.pdf

    They count 15 states as battleground states. the list of "battlegrounds" is
    Arizona, Florida,Georgia, Iowa, Maine, Michigan, Minnesota, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Mexico, North Carolina, Ohio,Pennsylvania, Texas, and Wisconsin

    Oh no, Biden is struggling in Texas, he is doomed.

    IF Texas, Iowa and Georgia count as battlegrounds then Trump is fucked.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,862
    I bet Boris sincerely wishes that Gavin Williamson had retained the nonentity status that he previously aspired to. As do we all, really.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,366

    I wonder if there are any E-bike companies I can invest in, since I am reliably informed it's going to replace the train as the long-distance form of transportation for Brits

    The long-distance form of transportation for Brits is the car.
    ...despite very concerned people who travel to conferences by private plane to tell them that personal transport is bad....
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205
    edited August 2020

    If passenger numbers start to go down, or even stabilise, then it should be possible to run a cheaper service.

    Demand has fallen with Covid/switching to WFH - so the theoretical market clearing revenue of aggregate unregulated ticket receipts will be lower; not sure how much cheaper the service will be to run though...
  • Alistair said:

    FTPT

    HYUFD said:
    I found the poll. http://cdn.cnn.com/cnn/2020/images/08/16/rel8a.-.2020.pdf

    They count 15 states as battleground states. the list of "battlegrounds" is
    Arizona, Florida,Georgia, Iowa, Maine, Michigan, Minnesota, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Mexico, North Carolina, Ohio,Pennsylvania, Texas, and Wisconsin

    Oh no, Biden is struggling in Texas, he is doomed.

    IF Texas, Iowa and Georgia count as battlegrounds then Trump is fucked.
    And Biden has a 1% lead?

    How many of those 15 states were won by Hillary?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,366
    Alistair said:

    FTPT

    HYUFD said:
    I found the poll. http://cdn.cnn.com/cnn/2020/images/08/16/rel8a.-.2020.pdf

    They count 15 states as battleground states. the list of "battlegrounds" is
    Arizona, Florida,Georgia, Iowa, Maine, Michigan, Minnesota, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Mexico, North Carolina, Ohio,Pennsylvania, Texas, and Wisconsin

    Oh no, Biden is struggling in Texas, he is doomed.

    IF Texas, Iowa and Georgia count as battlegrounds then Trump is fucked.
    The fact that Texas is trending purple is something to give the US Republicans sleepless nights. And this is a long term trend...
  • Georgia and Texas I can understand shouldn't be swing states but why not Iowa? Iowa I thought was traditionally regarded as a swing state?

    It was won by Obama twice and by Gore in 2000. If Iowa isn't a swing state then the Democrats have gone backwards there.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    Oh I see you've all come over here to the new thread.

    Did you get an e-bike over?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,862

    Alistair said:

    FTPT

    HYUFD said:
    I found the poll. http://cdn.cnn.com/cnn/2020/images/08/16/rel8a.-.2020.pdf

    They count 15 states as battleground states. the list of "battlegrounds" is
    Arizona, Florida,Georgia, Iowa, Maine, Michigan, Minnesota, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Mexico, North Carolina, Ohio,Pennsylvania, Texas, and Wisconsin

    Oh no, Biden is struggling in Texas, he is doomed.

    IF Texas, Iowa and Georgia count as battlegrounds then Trump is fucked.
    And Biden has a 1% lead?

    How many of those 15 states were won by Hillary?
    4.75 (allowing for Maine) I think.

    Texas and Georgia are clearly there for distortion purposes. Good spot by @Alistair
  • Alistair said:

    FTPT

    HYUFD said:
    I found the poll. http://cdn.cnn.com/cnn/2020/images/08/16/rel8a.-.2020.pdf

    They count 15 states as battleground states. the list of "battlegrounds" is
    Arizona, Florida,Georgia, Iowa, Maine, Michigan, Minnesota, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Mexico, North Carolina, Ohio,Pennsylvania, Texas, and Wisconsin

    Oh no, Biden is struggling in Texas, he is doomed.

    IF Texas, Iowa and Georgia count as battlegrounds then Trump is fucked.
    The fact that Texas is trending purple is something to give the US Republicans sleepless nights. And this is a long term trend...
    If Texas goes blue then the bias in the Electoral College will be eliminated overnight. Suddenly a Republican winning the popular vote but a Democrat being inaugurated would be viable and wouldn't that be fun?

    Watch to see all the partisan hacks on both sides instantly reverse ferret on what they think of the Electoral College if that happens!
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    Portugal, recently released from quarantine, 401 new virus cases today, whilst newly quarantined Austria chalks up just 229 and Czechia 131.

    The arbitrary and capricious nature of Boris’s quarantine policy is abundantly clear. It won’t be long before both countries are released from quarantine again and all the hassle and disruption imposed on British travellers there will have been for nothing.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,862
    TOPPING said:

    Oh I see you've all come over here to the new thread.

    Did you get an e-bike over?

    Tele transportation in my case.
    Thanks for your comments offline, I will pass them on.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,137

    Georgia and Texas I can understand shouldn't be swing states but why not Iowa? Iowa I thought was traditionally regarded as a swing state?

    It was won by Obama twice and by Gore in 2000. If Iowa isn't a swing state then the Democrats have gone backwards there.

    Trump won Iowa by 9.41% in 2016 but Texas by only 8.99%

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_United_States_presidential_election
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935
    IanB2 said:

    Portugal, recently released from quarantine, 401 new virus cases today, whilst newly quarantined Austria chalks up just 229 and Czechia 131.

    The arbitrary and capricious nature of Boris’s quarantine policy is abundantly clear. It won’t be long before both countries are released from quarantine again and all the hassle and disruption imposed on British travellers there will have been for nothing.

    Is it arbitrary, or rather based on a different metric than you are quoting each day?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,137
    edited August 2020

    Alistair said:

    FTPT

    HYUFD said:
    I found the poll. http://cdn.cnn.com/cnn/2020/images/08/16/rel8a.-.2020.pdf

    They count 15 states as battleground states. the list of "battlegrounds" is
    Arizona, Florida,Georgia, Iowa, Maine, Michigan, Minnesota, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Mexico, North Carolina, Ohio,Pennsylvania, Texas, and Wisconsin

    Oh no, Biden is struggling in Texas, he is doomed.

    IF Texas, Iowa and Georgia count as battlegrounds then Trump is fucked.
    The fact that Texas is trending purple is something to give the US Republicans sleepless nights. And this is a long term trend...
    If Texas goes blue then the bias in the Electoral College will be eliminated overnight. Suddenly a Republican winning the popular vote but a Democrat being inaugurated would be viable and wouldn't that be fun?

    Watch to see all the partisan hacks on both sides instantly reverse ferret on what they think of the Electoral College if that happens!
    If the Republicans lost Texas then they would likely not win the Presidency again until they picked George P Bush, the relatively moderate, half Hispanic son of Jeb Bush who is currently Texas land commissioner and a likely future Texan Governor who could broaden the party's appeal beyond merely non college educated whites which is its base now with Trump
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    DavidL said:

    TOPPING said:

    Oh I see you've all come over here to the new thread.

    Did you get an e-bike over?

    Tele transportation in my case.
    Thanks for your comments offline, I will pass them on.
    :smile:
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,366
    DavidL said:

    Alistair said:

    FTPT

    HYUFD said:
    I found the poll. http://cdn.cnn.com/cnn/2020/images/08/16/rel8a.-.2020.pdf

    They count 15 states as battleground states. the list of "battlegrounds" is
    Arizona, Florida,Georgia, Iowa, Maine, Michigan, Minnesota, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Mexico, North Carolina, Ohio,Pennsylvania, Texas, and Wisconsin

    Oh no, Biden is struggling in Texas, he is doomed.

    IF Texas, Iowa and Georgia count as battlegrounds then Trump is fucked.
    And Biden has a 1% lead?

    How many of those 15 states were won by Hillary?
    4.75 (allowing for Maine) I think.

    Texas and Georgia are clearly there for distortion purposes. Good spot by @Alistair
    Always good to look at - https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/president-general/national/ for a bit. Reset expectations etc.
  • IanB2 said:

    Portugal, recently released from quarantine, 401 new virus cases today, whilst newly quarantined Austria chalks up just 229 and Czechia 131.

    The arbitrary and capricious nature of Boris’s quarantine policy is abundantly clear. It won’t be long before both countries are released from quarantine again and all the hassle and disruption imposed on British travellers there will have been for nothing.

    The hassle and disruption is to keep the British public safe. If travellers get disrupted then that's too damn tough, that's what happens when you travel overseas during a pandemic.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935

    IanB2 said:

    Portugal, recently released from quarantine, 401 new virus cases today, whilst newly quarantined Austria chalks up just 229 and Czechia 131.

    The arbitrary and capricious nature of Boris’s quarantine policy is abundantly clear. It won’t be long before both countries are released from quarantine again and all the hassle and disruption imposed on British travellers there will have been for nothing.

    The hassle and disruption is to keep the British public safe. If travellers get disrupted then that's too damn tough, that's what happens when you travel overseas during a pandemic.
    Yeah. Does @IanB2 have travel plans or something?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    IanB2 said:

    Portugal, recently released from quarantine, 401 new virus cases today, whilst newly quarantined Austria chalks up just 229 and Czechia 131.

    The arbitrary and capricious nature of Boris’s quarantine policy is abundantly clear. It won’t be long before both countries are released from quarantine again and all the hassle and disruption imposed on British travellers there will have been for nothing.

    To me the crazy thing is the 4am the following morning. Leaving no one any time to do anything. For the sake of 48 hrs if they really want to quarantine people then fine but give them half a chance not to have their holidays completely fucked up.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,599

    Alistair said:

    FTPT

    HYUFD said:
    I found the poll. http://cdn.cnn.com/cnn/2020/images/08/16/rel8a.-.2020.pdf

    They count 15 states as battleground states. the list of "battlegrounds" is
    Arizona, Florida,Georgia, Iowa, Maine, Michigan, Minnesota, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Mexico, North Carolina, Ohio,Pennsylvania, Texas, and Wisconsin

    Oh no, Biden is struggling in Texas, he is doomed.

    IF Texas, Iowa and Georgia count as battlegrounds then Trump is fucked.
    The fact that Texas is trending purple is something to give the US Republicans sleepless nights. And this is a long term trend...
    There’s lots of Californians moving to Texas because California is turning to sh....

    There’s lots of Texans telling the newcomers not to bring their sh.. politics with them!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,137
    edited August 2020
    Alistair said:

    FTPT

    HYUFD said:
    I found the poll. http://cdn.cnn.com/cnn/2020/images/08/16/rel8a.-.2020.pdf

    They count 15 states as battleground states. the list of "battlegrounds" is
    Arizona, Florida,Georgia, Iowa, Maine, Michigan, Minnesota, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Mexico, North Carolina, Ohio,Pennsylvania, Texas, and Wisconsin

    Oh no, Biden is struggling in Texas, he is doomed.

    IF Texas, Iowa and Georgia count as battlegrounds then Trump is fucked.
    They are battlegrounds, all 3 were in the 18 closest states in 2016 and the ten closest states won by Trump.

    There were 32 US states with bigger margins for Trump or Hillary than Texas, Iowa or Georgia had
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226
    edited August 2020
    DavidL said:

    Alistair said:

    FTPT

    HYUFD said:
    I found the poll. http://cdn.cnn.com/cnn/2020/images/08/16/rel8a.-.2020.pdf

    They count 15 states as battleground states. the list of "battlegrounds" is
    Arizona, Florida,Georgia, Iowa, Maine, Michigan, Minnesota, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Mexico, North Carolina, Ohio,Pennsylvania, Texas, and Wisconsin

    Oh no, Biden is struggling in Texas, he is doomed.

    IF Texas, Iowa and Georgia count as battlegrounds then Trump is fucked.
    And Biden has a 1% lead?

    How many of those 15 states were won by Hillary?
    4.75 (allowing for Maine) I think.

    Texas and Georgia are clearly there for distortion purposes. Good spot by @Alistair
    A very good spot. It transforms the narrative.

    And begs the question - why is Michael Moore ramping for Trump?

    Is it because he wants him to win so he can make some angry films about how awful he is?
  • Sorry for the delay, my helicopter was late
  • I wonder if there are any E-bike companies I can invest in, since I am reliably informed it's going to replace the train as the long-distance form of transportation for Brits

    The long-distance form of transportation for Brits is the car.
    That must change, E-bike all the way
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    edited August 2020

    Alistair said:

    FTPT

    HYUFD said:
    I found the poll. http://cdn.cnn.com/cnn/2020/images/08/16/rel8a.-.2020.pdf

    They count 15 states as battleground states. the list of "battlegrounds" is
    Arizona, Florida,Georgia, Iowa, Maine, Michigan, Minnesota, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Mexico, North Carolina, Ohio,Pennsylvania, Texas, and Wisconsin

    Oh no, Biden is struggling in Texas, he is doomed.

    IF Texas, Iowa and Georgia count as battlegrounds then Trump is fucked.
    And Biden has a 1% lead?

    How many of those 15 states were won by Hillary?
    10 by Trump
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,599
    edited August 2020
    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    Alistair said:

    FTPT

    HYUFD said:
    I found the poll. http://cdn.cnn.com/cnn/2020/images/08/16/rel8a.-.2020.pdf

    They count 15 states as battleground states. the list of "battlegrounds" is
    Arizona, Florida,Georgia, Iowa, Maine, Michigan, Minnesota, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Mexico, North Carolina, Ohio,Pennsylvania, Texas, and Wisconsin

    Oh no, Biden is struggling in Texas, he is doomed.

    IF Texas, Iowa and Georgia count as battlegrounds then Trump is fucked.
    And Biden has a 1% lead?

    How many of those 15 states were won by Hillary?
    4.75 (allowing for Maine) I think.

    Texas and Georgia are clearly there for distortion purposes. Good spot by @Alistair
    A very good spot. It transforms the narrative.

    And begs the question - why is Michael Moore ramping for Trump?

    Is it because he wants him to win so he can make some angry films about how how awful he is?
    He’s probably trying to stop the Democrats getting as complacent as they were in 2016, drum it into them that they need to work the marginal states hard.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,885
    DavidL said:

    I bet Boris sincerely wishes that Gavin Williamson had retained the nonentity status that he previously aspired to. As do we all, really.

    OH, what's he done now?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226
    See that despite the passionate pleading of me and others yesterday, the photo of Starmer has not been changed for a more representative hunkier one.

    And we call ourselves a community.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2020-08-28-german-games-fund-to-offer-government-support-for-up-to-50-percent-of-dev-costs

    But I thought the EU has rules about state aid? The idea that we should agree to anything the EU says on this subject and be bound by treaty laws that member states will simply ignore is laughable. It's the one thing I'd learn to live with no deal over. We cannot submit to any kind of deal which gives the EU unilateral control over the level playing field, it is absolutely a non-starter.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992

    IanB2 said:

    Portugal, recently released from quarantine, 401 new virus cases today, whilst newly quarantined Austria chalks up just 229 and Czechia 131.

    The arbitrary and capricious nature of Boris’s quarantine policy is abundantly clear. It won’t be long before both countries are released from quarantine again and all the hassle and disruption imposed on British travellers there will have been for nothing.

    The hassle and disruption is to keep the British public safe. If travellers get disrupted then that's too damn tough, that's what happens when you travel overseas during a pandemic.
    So ebiking 40 miles a day and not going on holiday.

    Super in touch with the psyche of the British public, there, Philip.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468

    I wonder if there are any E-bike companies I can invest in, since I am reliably informed it's going to replace the train as the long-distance form of transportation for Brits

    The long-distance form of transportation for Brits is the car.
    Yeah, outside of the London commuter belt and the major cities. I have friends who live in Salford and central Manchester who don’t even have driving licenses. Same for some people who live in Newcastle along the Metro line.

    Get your head out of your ass. There is a different world outside your own reality.
  • Has Philip got a flat tyre?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,862
    Sandpit said:

    Alistair said:

    FTPT

    HYUFD said:
    I found the poll. http://cdn.cnn.com/cnn/2020/images/08/16/rel8a.-.2020.pdf

    They count 15 states as battleground states. the list of "battlegrounds" is
    Arizona, Florida,Georgia, Iowa, Maine, Michigan, Minnesota, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Mexico, North Carolina, Ohio,Pennsylvania, Texas, and Wisconsin

    Oh no, Biden is struggling in Texas, he is doomed.

    IF Texas, Iowa and Georgia count as battlegrounds then Trump is fucked.
    The fact that Texas is trending purple is something to give the US Republicans sleepless nights. And this is a long term trend...
    There’s lots of Californians moving to Texas because California is turning to sh....

    There’s lots of Texans telling the newcomers not to bring their sh.. politics with them!
    This California? https://www.statista.com/statistics/306775/california-gdp-growth/#:~:text=In 2019, the real GDP of California grew,real GDP in California from 2000 to 2019
    The one that grew by 4.7% in 2019 and has consistently outgrown the US economy for practically ever?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226
    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    Alistair said:

    FTPT

    HYUFD said:
    I found the poll. http://cdn.cnn.com/cnn/2020/images/08/16/rel8a.-.2020.pdf

    They count 15 states as battleground states. the list of "battlegrounds" is
    Arizona, Florida,Georgia, Iowa, Maine, Michigan, Minnesota, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Mexico, North Carolina, Ohio,Pennsylvania, Texas, and Wisconsin

    Oh no, Biden is struggling in Texas, he is doomed.

    IF Texas, Iowa and Georgia count as battlegrounds then Trump is fucked.
    And Biden has a 1% lead?

    How many of those 15 states were won by Hillary?
    4.75 (allowing for Maine) I think.

    Texas and Georgia are clearly there for distortion purposes. Good spot by @Alistair
    A very good spot. It transforms the narrative.

    And begs the question - why is Michael Moore ramping for Trump?

    Is it because he wants him to win so he can make some angry films about how how awful he is?
    He’s probably trying to stop the Democrats getting as complacent as they were in 2016, drum it into them that they need to work the marginal states hard.
    Mmm maybe. I don't trust him, though, Moore. There's something a little off there.

    But, yes, the Dems must not be complacent, and tbf I think there's little chance of that. They'll leave it all on the pitch this time.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,137
    edited August 2020
    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    Alistair said:

    FTPT

    HYUFD said:
    I found the poll. http://cdn.cnn.com/cnn/2020/images/08/16/rel8a.-.2020.pdf

    They count 15 states as battleground states. the list of "battlegrounds" is
    Arizona, Florida,Georgia, Iowa, Maine, Michigan, Minnesota, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Mexico, North Carolina, Ohio,Pennsylvania, Texas, and Wisconsin

    Oh no, Biden is struggling in Texas, he is doomed.

    IF Texas, Iowa and Georgia count as battlegrounds then Trump is fucked.
    And Biden has a 1% lead?

    How many of those 15 states were won by Hillary?
    4.75 (allowing for Maine) I think.

    Texas and Georgia are clearly there for distortion purposes. Good spot by @Alistair
    A very good spot. It transforms the narrative.

    And begs the question - why is Michael Moore ramping for Trump?

    Is it because he wants him to win so he can make some angry films about how how awful he is?
    He’s probably trying to stop the Democrats getting as complacent as they were in 2016, drum it into them that they need to work the marginal states hard.
    Yes, Moore correctly spotted Hillary was in trouble in the rustbelt in October 2016 well before polling day and Trump was making inroads.

    She largely ignored him and focused on Arizona and Texas and Florida and big fundraisers in California

    https://edition.cnn.com/videos/tv/2016/10/31/the-lead-talk-clinton-emails-michael-moore.cnn
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,599
    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    Alistair said:

    FTPT

    HYUFD said:
    I found the poll. http://cdn.cnn.com/cnn/2020/images/08/16/rel8a.-.2020.pdf

    They count 15 states as battleground states. the list of "battlegrounds" is
    Arizona, Florida,Georgia, Iowa, Maine, Michigan, Minnesota, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Mexico, North Carolina, Ohio,Pennsylvania, Texas, and Wisconsin

    Oh no, Biden is struggling in Texas, he is doomed.

    IF Texas, Iowa and Georgia count as battlegrounds then Trump is fucked.
    The fact that Texas is trending purple is something to give the US Republicans sleepless nights. And this is a long term trend...
    There’s lots of Californians moving to Texas because California is turning to sh....

    There’s lots of Texans telling the newcomers not to bring their sh.. politics with them!
    This California? https://www.statista.com/statistics/306775/california-gdp-growth/#:~:text=In 2019, the real GDP of California grew,real GDP in California from 2000 to 2019
    The one that grew by 4.7% in 2019 and has consistently outgrown the US economy for practically ever?
    The California which just passed a law banning self employed contractors, and has dozens of thousands of people living in tents and shitting in the streets.
    https://edition.cnn.com/2019/06/18/politics/los-angeles-homeless-crisis/index.html
    https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2019-09-27/ab5-independent-contractors-how-businesses-are-responding
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205
    edited August 2020
    The Battleground poll is 1% better for Trump than one might expect based off the Real Clear averages.

    From RCP averages it should be Biden 47 - Trump 45.
  • guybrushguybrush Posts: 257

    FPT

    guybrush said:

    MaxPB said:

    Lol e-bikes are not the solution to any kind of problem for medium distance commuters. I can cycle to work, but it's not very far from Hampstead to Vintners Place. I can't imagine doing 40 miles there and back on an e-bike, that's not realistic.

    But how many people make a 40 mile commute?

    According to a quick Google search the average London commute is 13 miles, not 40 miles. Entirely feasible on an ebike which costs the fraction of a season ticket - and that's just one of many viable alternatives to rail.
    You suggested I get an E-bike to get around rail commuting, or are you now accepting that's not an option.

    I've just had a look at helicopters
    I think it is an option - one of many.

    If your commute costs £7,000 to get a season ticket then a £2,000 ebike seems like a very good idea to me. After 5 years you would have saved £33,000 in your commuting costs, and you'll be fit and healthy. Plus as I understand it ebikes don't leave you sweaty either.

    But as I said its just one option of many. Especially if your commute is just ~13 miles as is average.
    I really shouldn't respond to this obvious trolling, but it has wound me up a little. The geography and commuting patterns London have evolved around the various rail corridors. There is not the road space for the crazy 2020 version of 1970s Beijing you seem to be proposing.

    Face it, the railways have been built and serve a useful social purpose. Rail travel in most countries is subsidised by the taxpayer, they have never been profitable. But they are necessary, because London (maybe other cities too) have grown up around them. The capacity is there, has by-in large been paid, for, and should be used. Unless your saying we should abandon central London. There's no road space for the alternative.
    I am not for one second suggesting that rail be abandoned altogether, that would be utterly insane. I am suggesting rail can be - and is - one option of many for people to use. As demonstrated by the fact that rail passenger figures have wildly varied in the past and present.

    To me it would make sense eg if people with 40 mile commutes or health conditions etc take the train while people with 2-3 mile commutes consider alternatives like buses or ebikes etc

    All I was trying to say is that options do exist. The fact that passenger numbers have frequently changed is proof positive of that.

    PS if rail has been "by-in large been paid for" already then it shouldn't be too expensive to run either. A key reason rail is so expensive is because passenger numbers are going up so more capacity is needed, it is basic supply and demand. If passenger numbers start to go down, or even stabilise, then it should be possible to run a cheaper service.
    I was referring to the operating costs. Enhancements are a different matter, but the case for those may be shakier given recent events.

    I'm not denying that for some trips options exist, but not necessarily commutes into major cities where the volumes of travellers and lack of road space make it the only viable option for most. I'm sure most commuters with options to use bikes, busses, etc have already considered their options and made a rationale decision!

    Variation in passenger numbers may have a number of causes, including economic growth, increases in leisure travel, upgrades making rail a more enticing proposition etc.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,766
    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    Alistair said:

    FTPT

    HYUFD said:
    I found the poll. http://cdn.cnn.com/cnn/2020/images/08/16/rel8a.-.2020.pdf

    They count 15 states as battleground states. the list of "battlegrounds" is
    Arizona, Florida,Georgia, Iowa, Maine, Michigan, Minnesota, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Mexico, North Carolina, Ohio,Pennsylvania, Texas, and Wisconsin

    Oh no, Biden is struggling in Texas, he is doomed.

    IF Texas, Iowa and Georgia count as battlegrounds then Trump is fucked.
    And Biden has a 1% lead?

    How many of those 15 states were won by Hillary?
    4.75 (allowing for Maine) I think.

    Texas and Georgia are clearly there for distortion purposes. Good spot by @Alistair
    A very good spot. It transforms the narrative.

    And begs the question - why is Michael Moore ramping for Trump?

    Is it because he wants him to win so he can make some angry films about how how awful he is?
    He’s probably trying to stop the Democrats getting as complacent as they were in 2016, drum it into them that they need to work the marginal states hard.
    Yes, Moore correctly spotted Hillary was in trouble in the rustbelt in October 2016 well before polling day and Trump was making inroads.

    She largely ignored him and focused on Arizona and Texas and Florida and big fundraisers in California

    https://edition.cnn.com/videos/tv/2016/10/31/the-lead-talk-clinton-emails-michael-moore.cnn
    He husband also told her to get a new message out to rural, white voters and the rust belt and campaign there.

    He was ignored.

    iirc the data kids running the campaign said he was so last century.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,599
    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    Alistair said:

    FTPT

    HYUFD said:
    I found the poll. http://cdn.cnn.com/cnn/2020/images/08/16/rel8a.-.2020.pdf

    They count 15 states as battleground states. the list of "battlegrounds" is
    Arizona, Florida,Georgia, Iowa, Maine, Michigan, Minnesota, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Mexico, North Carolina, Ohio,Pennsylvania, Texas, and Wisconsin

    Oh no, Biden is struggling in Texas, he is doomed.

    IF Texas, Iowa and Georgia count as battlegrounds then Trump is fucked.
    And Biden has a 1% lead?

    How many of those 15 states were won by Hillary?
    4.75 (allowing for Maine) I think.

    Texas and Georgia are clearly there for distortion purposes. Good spot by @Alistair
    A very good spot. It transforms the narrative.

    And begs the question - why is Michael Moore ramping for Trump?

    Is it because he wants him to win so he can make some angry films about how how awful he is?
    He’s probably trying to stop the Democrats getting as complacent as they were in 2016, drum it into them that they need to work the marginal states hard.
    Mmm maybe. I don't trust him, though, Moore. There's something a little off there.

    But, yes, the Dems must not be complacent, and tbf I think there's little chance of that. They'll leave it all on the pitch this time.
    Moore is one of the very few commentators who lives outside NY and CA. He spotted Trump coming a mile away last time. Democrats who want to win should be paying very close attention to what he has to say.

    From 2016:
    https://youtube.com/watch?v=vMm5HfxNXY4
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,862
    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    I bet Boris sincerely wishes that Gavin Williamson had retained the nonentity status that he previously aspired to. As do we all, really.

    OH, what's he done now?
    Well he didn't resign so we have to put up with yet more of Swinney's incompetence.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    On topic, risky betting between two unproven individual. When they have actually done something difficult then you can start to judge.
  • I wonder if there are any E-bike companies I can invest in, since I am reliably informed it's going to replace the train as the long-distance form of transportation for Brits

    The long-distance form of transportation for Brits is the car.
    I'd love to see you do London to Glasgow in less than 4h 30m :lol:
  • DAlexanderDAlexander Posts: 815
    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    Alistair said:

    FTPT

    HYUFD said:
    I found the poll. http://cdn.cnn.com/cnn/2020/images/08/16/rel8a.-.2020.pdf

    They count 15 states as battleground states. the list of "battlegrounds" is
    Arizona, Florida,Georgia, Iowa, Maine, Michigan, Minnesota, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Mexico, North Carolina, Ohio,Pennsylvania, Texas, and Wisconsin

    Oh no, Biden is struggling in Texas, he is doomed.

    IF Texas, Iowa and Georgia count as battlegrounds then Trump is fucked.
    The fact that Texas is trending purple is something to give the US Republicans sleepless nights. And this is a long term trend...
    There’s lots of Californians moving to Texas because California is turning to sh....

    There’s lots of Texans telling the newcomers not to bring their sh.. politics with them!
    This California? https://www.statista.com/statistics/306775/california-gdp-growth/#:~:text=In 2019, the real GDP of California grew,real GDP in California from 2000 to 2019
    The one that grew by 4.7% in 2019 and has consistently outgrown the US economy for practically ever?
    This surprises me.

    Maybe all the talk of people fed up with the state and leaving is just that.
  • TOPPING said:

    IanB2 said:

    Portugal, recently released from quarantine, 401 new virus cases today, whilst newly quarantined Austria chalks up just 229 and Czechia 131.

    The arbitrary and capricious nature of Boris’s quarantine policy is abundantly clear. It won’t be long before both countries are released from quarantine again and all the hassle and disruption imposed on British travellers there will have been for nothing.

    The hassle and disruption is to keep the British public safe. If travellers get disrupted then that's too damn tough, that's what happens when you travel overseas during a pandemic.
    So ebiking 40 miles a day and not going on holiday.

    Super in touch with the psyche of the British public, there, Philip.
    I'm curious if there's any figures but not going on an international holiday during a pandemic is probably more in touch with the average British public than travelling overseas during a pandemic and expecting zero disruption from it.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,999
    Alistair said:

    FTPT

    HYUFD said:
    I found the poll. http://cdn.cnn.com/cnn/2020/images/08/16/rel8a.-.2020.pdf

    They count 15 states as battleground states. the list of "battlegrounds" is
    Arizona, Florida,Georgia, Iowa, Maine, Michigan, Minnesota, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Mexico, North Carolina, Ohio,Pennsylvania, Texas, and Wisconsin

    Oh no, Biden is struggling in Texas, he is doomed.

    IF Texas, Iowa and Georgia count as battlegrounds then Trump is fucked.
    What d'ye think the motivations are for this now constant 'it's much, much closer than ya think' narrative being pushed? I can see filthy libs wanting to keep their base on its toes but lots of it also from the right. Just morale?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,862

    Alistair said:

    FTPT

    HYUFD said:
    I found the poll. http://cdn.cnn.com/cnn/2020/images/08/16/rel8a.-.2020.pdf

    They count 15 states as battleground states. the list of "battlegrounds" is
    Arizona, Florida,Georgia, Iowa, Maine, Michigan, Minnesota, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Mexico, North Carolina, Ohio,Pennsylvania, Texas, and Wisconsin

    Oh no, Biden is struggling in Texas, he is doomed.

    IF Texas, Iowa and Georgia count as battlegrounds then Trump is fucked.
    What d'ye think the motivations are for this now constant 'it's much, much closer than ya think' narrative being pushed? I can see filthy libs wanting to keep their base on its toes but lots of it also from the right. Just morale?
    No I think that they genuinely believe that Trump can repeat his 2016 trick and get the camel of his victory through the eye of the needle once again. He doesn't have to be ahead, he just has to be not too far behind.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,766

    DavidL said:

    Alistair said:

    FTPT

    HYUFD said:
    I found the poll. http://cdn.cnn.com/cnn/2020/images/08/16/rel8a.-.2020.pdf

    They count 15 states as battleground states. the list of "battlegrounds" is
    Arizona, Florida,Georgia, Iowa, Maine, Michigan, Minnesota, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Mexico, North Carolina, Ohio,Pennsylvania, Texas, and Wisconsin

    Oh no, Biden is struggling in Texas, he is doomed.

    IF Texas, Iowa and Georgia count as battlegrounds then Trump is fucked.
    And Biden has a 1% lead?

    How many of those 15 states were won by Hillary?
    4.75 (allowing for Maine) I think.

    Texas and Georgia are clearly there for distortion purposes. Good spot by @Alistair
    Always good to look at - https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/president-general/national/ for a bit. Reset expectations etc.
    we need an ohio poll.

    last one added was late july polling, with biden just ahead.
  • Alistair said:

    FTPT

    HYUFD said:
    I found the poll. http://cdn.cnn.com/cnn/2020/images/08/16/rel8a.-.2020.pdf

    They count 15 states as battleground states. the list of "battlegrounds" is
    Arizona, Florida,Georgia, Iowa, Maine, Michigan, Minnesota, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Mexico, North Carolina, Ohio,Pennsylvania, Texas, and Wisconsin

    Oh no, Biden is struggling in Texas, he is doomed.

    IF Texas, Iowa and Georgia count as battlegrounds then Trump is fucked.
    What d'ye think the motivations are for this now constant 'it's much, much closer than ya think' narrative being pushed? I can see filthy libs wanting to keep their base on its toes but lots of it also from the right. Just morale?
    Yeah it makes sense for both parties to do it. Happens every election.

    For the winning party you don't want complacency and for the losing party you don't want to give up.

    Same as in 2019 both the Tories and Corbynites were pushing an "its closer than the polls say, every vote counts" line.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,862

    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    Alistair said:

    FTPT

    HYUFD said:
    I found the poll. http://cdn.cnn.com/cnn/2020/images/08/16/rel8a.-.2020.pdf

    They count 15 states as battleground states. the list of "battlegrounds" is
    Arizona, Florida,Georgia, Iowa, Maine, Michigan, Minnesota, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Mexico, North Carolina, Ohio,Pennsylvania, Texas, and Wisconsin

    Oh no, Biden is struggling in Texas, he is doomed.

    IF Texas, Iowa and Georgia count as battlegrounds then Trump is fucked.
    The fact that Texas is trending purple is something to give the US Republicans sleepless nights. And this is a long term trend...
    There’s lots of Californians moving to Texas because California is turning to sh....

    There’s lots of Texans telling the newcomers not to bring their sh.. politics with them!
    This California? https://www.statista.com/statistics/306775/california-gdp-growth/#:~:text=In 2019, the real GDP of California grew,real GDP in California from 2000 to 2019
    The one that grew by 4.7% in 2019 and has consistently outgrown the US economy for practically ever?
    This surprises me.

    Maybe all the talk of people fed up with the state and leaving is just that.
    The Californian economy has actually overtaken that of the UK. With the behemoths in Silicon Valley still growing like start ups it will continue to pummel ahead.

    None of this necessarily makes it a nice place to live of course. The stories about the homeless in San Fran, for example, are heartbreaking.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,137

    Alistair said:

    FTPT

    HYUFD said:
    I found the poll. http://cdn.cnn.com/cnn/2020/images/08/16/rel8a.-.2020.pdf

    They count 15 states as battleground states. the list of "battlegrounds" is
    Arizona, Florida,Georgia, Iowa, Maine, Michigan, Minnesota, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Mexico, North Carolina, Ohio,Pennsylvania, Texas, and Wisconsin

    Oh no, Biden is struggling in Texas, he is doomed.

    IF Texas, Iowa and Georgia count as battlegrounds then Trump is fucked.
    What d'ye think the motivations are for this now constant 'it's much, much closer than ya think' narrative being pushed? I can see filthy libs wanting to keep their base on its toes but lots of it also from the right. Just morale?
    Facts, if it was a Biden landslide we were heading for he should be at least 5 to 10%+ ahead in the battleground states, not just 1% ahead
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992

    TOPPING said:

    IanB2 said:

    Portugal, recently released from quarantine, 401 new virus cases today, whilst newly quarantined Austria chalks up just 229 and Czechia 131.

    The arbitrary and capricious nature of Boris’s quarantine policy is abundantly clear. It won’t be long before both countries are released from quarantine again and all the hassle and disruption imposed on British travellers there will have been for nothing.

    The hassle and disruption is to keep the British public safe. If travellers get disrupted then that's too damn tough, that's what happens when you travel overseas during a pandemic.
    So ebiking 40 miles a day and not going on holiday.

    Super in touch with the psyche of the British public, there, Philip.
    I'm curious if there's any figures but not going on an international holiday during a pandemic is probably more in touch with the average British public than travelling overseas during a pandemic and expecting zero disruption from it.
    What have figures got to do with it? Plenty of Brits want to go on holiday as it is an intrinsic part of their lives. Plenty don't I'm sure. That shouldn't make it difficult to understand the psyche of those that do, or that such a desire is ineffably British, or indeed human.

    I don't support Chelsea but I can understand that plenty of people do.

    No.

    Scrub that. Some things are unfathomable.
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,780

    Alistair said:

    FTPT

    HYUFD said:
    I found the poll. http://cdn.cnn.com/cnn/2020/images/08/16/rel8a.-.2020.pdf

    They count 15 states as battleground states. the list of "battlegrounds" is
    Arizona, Florida,Georgia, Iowa, Maine, Michigan, Minnesota, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Mexico, North Carolina, Ohio,Pennsylvania, Texas, and Wisconsin

    Oh no, Biden is struggling in Texas, he is doomed.

    IF Texas, Iowa and Georgia count as battlegrounds then Trump is fucked.
    The fact that Texas is trending purple is something to give the US Republicans sleepless nights. And this is a long term trend...
    If Texas goes blue then the bias in the Electoral College will be eliminated overnight. Suddenly a Republican winning the popular vote but a Democrat being inaugurated would be viable and wouldn't that be fun?

    Watch to see all the partisan hacks on both sides instantly reverse ferret on what they think of the Electoral College if that happens!
    However, at the moment we're still talking of Texas being in play only if the Democrats are looking at a double digit lead in the popular vote, not when they are behind in the popular vote. It will be more than a decade before that changes.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,999

    Alistair said:

    FTPT

    HYUFD said:
    I found the poll. http://cdn.cnn.com/cnn/2020/images/08/16/rel8a.-.2020.pdf

    They count 15 states as battleground states. the list of "battlegrounds" is
    Arizona, Florida,Georgia, Iowa, Maine, Michigan, Minnesota, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Mexico, North Carolina, Ohio,Pennsylvania, Texas, and Wisconsin

    Oh no, Biden is struggling in Texas, he is doomed.

    IF Texas, Iowa and Georgia count as battlegrounds then Trump is fucked.
    What d'ye think the motivations are for this now constant 'it's much, much closer than ya think' narrative being pushed? I can see filthy libs wanting to keep their base on its toes but lots of it also from the right. Just morale?
    Yeah it makes sense for both parties to do it. Happens every election.

    For the winning party you don't want complacency and for the losing party you don't want to give up.

    Same as in 2019 both the Tories and Corbynites were pushing an "its closer than the polls say, every vote counts" line.
    Oh sure, no one goes into an election admitting we're toast, it's just stuff like that misleading swing states polling seems pretty calculated.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,427
    HYUFD said:

    Alistair said:

    FTPT

    HYUFD said:
    I found the poll. http://cdn.cnn.com/cnn/2020/images/08/16/rel8a.-.2020.pdf

    They count 15 states as battleground states. the list of "battlegrounds" is
    Arizona, Florida,Georgia, Iowa, Maine, Michigan, Minnesota, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Mexico, North Carolina, Ohio,Pennsylvania, Texas, and Wisconsin

    Oh no, Biden is struggling in Texas, he is doomed.

    IF Texas, Iowa and Georgia count as battlegrounds then Trump is fucked.
    They are battlegrounds, all 3 were in the 18 closest states in 2016 and the ten closest states won by Trump.

    There were 32 US states with bigger margins for Trump or Hillary than Texas, Iowa or Georgia had
    Trump won that set of 15 States by an aggregate 3.5%, which provides a bit of context for a 1% Biden lead.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,137
    edited August 2020

    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    Alistair said:

    FTPT

    HYUFD said:
    I found the poll. http://cdn.cnn.com/cnn/2020/images/08/16/rel8a.-.2020.pdf

    They count 15 states as battleground states. the list of "battlegrounds" is
    Arizona, Florida,Georgia, Iowa, Maine, Michigan, Minnesota, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Mexico, North Carolina, Ohio,Pennsylvania, Texas, and Wisconsin

    Oh no, Biden is struggling in Texas, he is doomed.

    IF Texas, Iowa and Georgia count as battlegrounds then Trump is fucked.
    And Biden has a 1% lead?

    How many of those 15 states were won by Hillary?
    4.75 (allowing for Maine) I think.

    Texas and Georgia are clearly there for distortion purposes. Good spot by @Alistair
    A very good spot. It transforms the narrative.

    And begs the question - why is Michael Moore ramping for Trump?

    Is it because he wants him to win so he can make some angry films about how how awful he is?
    He’s probably trying to stop the Democrats getting as complacent as they were in 2016, drum it into them that they need to work the marginal states hard.
    Yes, Moore correctly spotted Hillary was in trouble in the rustbelt in October 2016 well before polling day and Trump was making inroads.

    She largely ignored him and focused on Arizona and Texas and Florida and big fundraisers in California

    https://edition.cnn.com/videos/tv/2016/10/31/the-lead-talk-clinton-emails-michael-moore.cnn
    He husband also told her to get a new message out to rural, white voters and the rust belt and campaign there.

    He was ignored.

    iirc the data kids running the campaign said he was so last century.
    The data kids basically said the white working class were so last century too, not surprisingly they responded in an unfavourable way. Bill correctly spotted the message from the white working class revolt of Brexit could happen in the US, the Clinton campaign just redoubled on minorities and college educated coastal voters.


    'Bill didn't buy the excuse that Comey would cost Hillary the election,' said the source. 'As far as he was concerned, all the blame belonged to [campaign manager Robby] Mook, [campaign chairman John] Podesta and Hillary because they displayed a tone-deaf attitude about the feeble economy and its impact on millions and millions of working-class voters.

    'Bill was so red in the face during his conversation with Hillary that I worried he was going to have a heart attack. He got so angry that he threw his phone off the roof of his penthouse apartment and toward the Arkansas River.'
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3935800/Days-losing-election-Hillary-Bill-Clinton-sceaming-match-blame-flagging-campaign-ex-president-angry-threw-phone-roof-Arkansas-penthouse.html
  • Pulpstar said:

    DavidL said:

    Alistair said:

    FTPT

    HYUFD said:
    I found the poll. http://cdn.cnn.com/cnn/2020/images/08/16/rel8a.-.2020.pdf

    They count 15 states as battleground states. the list of "battlegrounds" is
    Arizona, Florida,Georgia, Iowa, Maine, Michigan, Minnesota, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Mexico, North Carolina, Ohio,Pennsylvania, Texas, and Wisconsin

    Oh no, Biden is struggling in Texas, he is doomed.

    IF Texas, Iowa and Georgia count as battlegrounds then Trump is fucked.
    What d'ye think the motivations are for this now constant 'it's much, much closer than ya think' narrative being pushed? I can see filthy libs wanting to keep their base on its toes but lots of it also from the right. Just morale?
    No I think that they genuinely believe that Trump can repeat his 2016 trick and get the camel of his victory through the eye of the needle once again. He doesn't have to be ahead, he just has to be not too far behind.
    The vote tally for these battlegrounds last time round was

    Trump 29,343,159 (49%)
    Clinton 27,574,279 (46%)
    So actually pretty close even including Texas and Georgia.

    So looks like a 2% swing.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,427
    HYUFD said:

    Alistair said:

    FTPT

    HYUFD said:
    I found the poll. http://cdn.cnn.com/cnn/2020/images/08/16/rel8a.-.2020.pdf

    They count 15 states as battleground states. the list of "battlegrounds" is
    Arizona, Florida,Georgia, Iowa, Maine, Michigan, Minnesota, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Mexico, North Carolina, Ohio,Pennsylvania, Texas, and Wisconsin

    Oh no, Biden is struggling in Texas, he is doomed.

    IF Texas, Iowa and Georgia count as battlegrounds then Trump is fucked.
    What d'ye think the motivations are for this now constant 'it's much, much closer than ya think' narrative being pushed? I can see filthy libs wanting to keep their base on its toes but lots of it also from the right. Just morale?
    Facts, if it was a Biden landslide we were heading for he should be at least 5 to 10%+ ahead in the battleground states, not just 1% ahead
    The definition of a set of Battleground States should result in a sample where the two candidates are at a dead heat when the result of the election is a dead heat.

    This supposed set of Battleground States doesn't do that. Biden wins comfortably if he's tied in this set of states.
  • Alistair said:

    FTPT

    HYUFD said:
    I found the poll. http://cdn.cnn.com/cnn/2020/images/08/16/rel8a.-.2020.pdf

    They count 15 states as battleground states. the list of "battlegrounds" is
    Arizona, Florida,Georgia, Iowa, Maine, Michigan, Minnesota, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Mexico, North Carolina, Ohio,Pennsylvania, Texas, and Wisconsin

    Oh no, Biden is struggling in Texas, he is doomed.

    IF Texas, Iowa and Georgia count as battlegrounds then Trump is fucked.
    The fact that Texas is trending purple is something to give the US Republicans sleepless nights. And this is a long term trend...
    If Texas goes blue then the bias in the Electoral College will be eliminated overnight. Suddenly a Republican winning the popular vote but a Democrat being inaugurated would be viable and wouldn't that be fun?

    Watch to see all the partisan hacks on both sides instantly reverse ferret on what they think of the Electoral College if that happens!
    However, at the moment we're still talking of Texas being in play only if the Democrats are looking at a double digit lead in the popular vote, not when they are behind in the popular vote. It will be more than a decade before that changes.
    A week may be a long time in politics, but a decade sometimes is not. That's 2 elections from now essentially!
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,708
    Biden has shortened from approx 1.93 to now 1.85 in the last hour or so.
  • MikeL said:

    Biden has shortened from approx 1.93 to now 1.85 in the last hour or so.

    And the anomalous Trump non-premium has unwound so there is now a premium for both named candidates, representing (and some might say exaggerating) the risk of dropping out and being replaced before the election.

    Biden 1.86
    Trump 2.2
    Dem 1.83
    Rep 2.18
  • TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    IanB2 said:

    Portugal, recently released from quarantine, 401 new virus cases today, whilst newly quarantined Austria chalks up just 229 and Czechia 131.

    The arbitrary and capricious nature of Boris’s quarantine policy is abundantly clear. It won’t be long before both countries are released from quarantine again and all the hassle and disruption imposed on British travellers there will have been for nothing.

    The hassle and disruption is to keep the British public safe. If travellers get disrupted then that's too damn tough, that's what happens when you travel overseas during a pandemic.
    So ebiking 40 miles a day and not going on holiday.

    Super in touch with the psyche of the British public, there, Philip.
    I'm curious if there's any figures but not going on an international holiday during a pandemic is probably more in touch with the average British public than travelling overseas during a pandemic and expecting zero disruption from it.
    What have figures got to do with it? Plenty of Brits want to go on holiday as it is an intrinsic part of their lives. Plenty don't I'm sure. That shouldn't make it difficult to understand the psyche of those that do, or that such a desire is ineffably British, or indeed human.

    I don't support Chelsea but I can understand that plenty of people do.

    No.

    Scrub that. Some things are unfathomable.
    LOL!

    Plenty do normally, I would like to normally. Doing so during a pandemic and expecting sympathy if things go wrong due to the pandemic . . . yes Chelsea was a good analogy to pick.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,137

    HYUFD said:

    Alistair said:

    FTPT

    HYUFD said:
    I found the poll. http://cdn.cnn.com/cnn/2020/images/08/16/rel8a.-.2020.pdf

    They count 15 states as battleground states. the list of "battlegrounds" is
    Arizona, Florida,Georgia, Iowa, Maine, Michigan, Minnesota, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Mexico, North Carolina, Ohio,Pennsylvania, Texas, and Wisconsin

    Oh no, Biden is struggling in Texas, he is doomed.

    IF Texas, Iowa and Georgia count as battlegrounds then Trump is fucked.
    They are battlegrounds, all 3 were in the 18 closest states in 2016 and the ten closest states won by Trump.

    There were 32 US states with bigger margins for Trump or Hillary than Texas, Iowa or Georgia had
    Trump won that set of 15 States by an aggregate 3.5%, which provides a bit of context for a 1% Biden lead.
    It suggests the Electoral College will definitely be closer than 2016, however it also suggests Trump could still scrape an EC win
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    FPT:

    kle4 said:

    Very few are swayed by such matter ms either way. Does one way feel better in the gut? I fear the answer
    Well..

    https://twitter.com/BizforScotland/status/1299270945031499776?s=20

    Cue wails of 'But it's Business for Scotland' and libelous slurs directed at Panelbase.
    This was the question:

    I have more confidence in the economic competence of the Scottish Government in Edinburgh than in the UK Government in Westminster.”

    https://www.businessforscotland.com/poll-70-would-trust-scottish-government-with-powers-to-run-economy/
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,599
    edited August 2020
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    Alistair said:

    FTPT

    HYUFD said:
    I found the poll. http://cdn.cnn.com/cnn/2020/images/08/16/rel8a.-.2020.pdf

    They count 15 states as battleground states. the list of "battlegrounds" is
    Arizona, Florida,Georgia, Iowa, Maine, Michigan, Minnesota, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Mexico, North Carolina, Ohio,Pennsylvania, Texas, and Wisconsin

    Oh no, Biden is struggling in Texas, he is doomed.

    IF Texas, Iowa and Georgia count as battlegrounds then Trump is fucked.
    And Biden has a 1% lead?

    How many of those 15 states were won by Hillary?
    4.75 (allowing for Maine) I think.

    Texas and Georgia are clearly there for distortion purposes. Good spot by @Alistair
    A very good spot. It transforms the narrative.

    And begs the question - why is Michael Moore ramping for Trump?

    Is it because he wants him to win so he can make some angry films about how how awful he is?
    He’s probably trying to stop the Democrats getting as complacent as they were in 2016, drum it into them that they need to work the marginal states hard.
    Yes, Moore correctly spotted Hillary was in trouble in the rustbelt in October 2016 well before polling day and Trump was making inroads.

    She largely ignored him and focused on Arizona and Texas and Florida and big fundraisers in California

    https://edition.cnn.com/videos/tv/2016/10/31/the-lead-talk-clinton-emails-michael-moore.cnn
    He husband also told her to get a new message out to rural, white voters and the rust belt and campaign there.

    He was ignored.

    iirc the data kids running the campaign said he was so last century.
    The data kids basically said the white working class were so last century too, not surprisingly they responded in an unfavourable way.
    Now all you can hear them saying is Black Lives Matter, which the white working classes are hearing as Only Black Lives Matter, and WWC Lives Don’t Matter.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226
    Yes. Very important couple of weeks data coming up. If the polls tighten bigly it confirms the growing knife edge and deja vue narrative. Trump might even go favourite. If they don't tighten much at all his price collapses and my prediction of 3.5 by end of Sept and 5 on eve of election comes to pass.
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    Alistair said:

    FTPT

    HYUFD said:
    I found the poll. http://cdn.cnn.com/cnn/2020/images/08/16/rel8a.-.2020.pdf

    They count 15 states as battleground states. the list of "battlegrounds" is
    Arizona, Florida,Georgia, Iowa, Maine, Michigan, Minnesota, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Mexico, North Carolina, Ohio,Pennsylvania, Texas, and Wisconsin

    Oh no, Biden is struggling in Texas, he is doomed.

    IF Texas, Iowa and Georgia count as battlegrounds then Trump is fucked.
    And Biden has a 1% lead?

    How many of those 15 states were won by Hillary?
    4.75 (allowing for Maine) I think.

    Texas and Georgia are clearly there for distortion purposes. Good spot by @Alistair
    A very good spot. It transforms the narrative.

    And begs the question - why is Michael Moore ramping for Trump?

    Is it because he wants him to win so he can make some angry films about how how awful he is?
    He’s probably trying to stop the Democrats getting as complacent as they were in 2016, drum it into them that they need to work the marginal states hard.
    Yes, Moore correctly spotted Hillary was in trouble in the rustbelt in October 2016 well before polling day and Trump was making inroads.

    She largely ignored him and focused on Arizona and Texas and Florida and big fundraisers in California

    https://edition.cnn.com/videos/tv/2016/10/31/the-lead-talk-clinton-emails-michael-moore.cnn
    He husband also told her to get a new message out to rural, white voters and the rust belt and campaign there.

    He was ignored.

    iirc the data kids running the campaign said he was so last century.
    The data kids basically said the white working class were so last century too, not surprisingly they responded in an unfavourable way. Bill correctly spotted the message from the white working class revolt of Brexit could happen in the US, the Clinton campaign just redoubled on minorities and college educated coastal voters.


    'Bill didn't buy the excuse that Comey would cost Hillary the election,' said the source. 'As far as he was concerned, all the blame belonged to [campaign manager Robby] Mook, [campaign chairman John] Podesta and Hillary because they displayed a tone-deaf attitude about the feeble economy and its impact on millions and millions of working-class voters.

    'Bill was so red in the face during his conversation with Hillary that I worried he was going to have a heart attack. He got so angry that he threw his phone off the roof of his penthouse apartment and toward the Arkansas River.'
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3935800/Days-losing-election-Hillary-Bill-Clinton-sceaming-match-blame-flagging-campaign-ex-president-angry-threw-phone-roof-Arkansas-penthouse.html
    Hillary's team basically repeated the same mistake they'd made against Barack Obama in the primaries 12 years earlier: piling up votes but not delegates.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,210
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    Alistair said:

    FTPT

    HYUFD said:
    I found the poll. http://cdn.cnn.com/cnn/2020/images/08/16/rel8a.-.2020.pdf

    They count 15 states as battleground states. the list of "battlegrounds" is
    Arizona, Florida,Georgia, Iowa, Maine, Michigan, Minnesota, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Mexico, North Carolina, Ohio,Pennsylvania, Texas, and Wisconsin

    Oh no, Biden is struggling in Texas, he is doomed.

    IF Texas, Iowa and Georgia count as battlegrounds then Trump is fucked.
    The fact that Texas is trending purple is something to give the US Republicans sleepless nights. And this is a long term trend...
    There’s lots of Californians moving to Texas because California is turning to sh....

    There’s lots of Texans telling the newcomers not to bring their sh.. politics with them!
    This California? https://www.statista.com/statistics/306775/california-gdp-growth/#:~:text=In 2019, the real GDP of California grew,real GDP in California from 2000 to 2019
    The one that grew by 4.7% in 2019 and has consistently outgrown the US economy for practically ever?
    This surprises me.

    Maybe all the talk of people fed up with the state and leaving is just that.
    The Californian economy has actually overtaken that of the UK. With the behemoths in Silicon Valley still growing like start ups it will continue to pummel ahead.

    None of this necessarily makes it a nice place to live of course. The stories about the homeless in San Fran, for example, are heartbreaking.
    You're right. Los Angeles, with its perfect weather, its sea and mountains and great restaurants, is all absolute hell hole.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,427
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Alistair said:

    FTPT

    HYUFD said:
    I found the poll. http://cdn.cnn.com/cnn/2020/images/08/16/rel8a.-.2020.pdf

    They count 15 states as battleground states. the list of "battlegrounds" is
    Arizona, Florida,Georgia, Iowa, Maine, Michigan, Minnesota, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Mexico, North Carolina, Ohio,Pennsylvania, Texas, and Wisconsin

    Oh no, Biden is struggling in Texas, he is doomed.

    IF Texas, Iowa and Georgia count as battlegrounds then Trump is fucked.
    They are battlegrounds, all 3 were in the 18 closest states in 2016 and the ten closest states won by Trump.

    There were 32 US states with bigger margins for Trump or Hillary than Texas, Iowa or Georgia had
    Trump won that set of 15 States by an aggregate 3.5%, which provides a bit of context for a 1% Biden lead.
    It suggests the Electoral College will definitely be closer than 2016, however it also suggests Trump could still scrape an EC win
    Trump could still win for lots of reasons. This poll does not provide any.

    If we apply the swing from this poll to the 2016 election Biden wins with 334 Electoral College votes to 204.

    That's not closer than 2016.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,137
    edited August 2020

    HYUFD said:

    Alistair said:

    FTPT

    HYUFD said:
    I found the poll. http://cdn.cnn.com/cnn/2020/images/08/16/rel8a.-.2020.pdf

    They count 15 states as battleground states. the list of "battlegrounds" is
    Arizona, Florida,Georgia, Iowa, Maine, Michigan, Minnesota, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Mexico, North Carolina, Ohio,Pennsylvania, Texas, and Wisconsin

    Oh no, Biden is struggling in Texas, he is doomed.

    IF Texas, Iowa and Georgia count as battlegrounds then Trump is fucked.
    What d'ye think the motivations are for this now constant 'it's much, much closer than ya think' narrative being pushed? I can see filthy libs wanting to keep their base on its toes but lots of it also from the right. Just morale?
    Facts, if it was a Biden landslide we were heading for he should be at least 5 to 10%+ ahead in the battleground states, not just 1% ahead
    The definition of a set of Battleground States should result in a sample where the two candidates are at a dead heat when the result of the election is a dead heat.

    This supposed set of Battleground States doesn't do that. Biden wins comfortably if he's tied in this set of states.
    Trump won the Electoral College 304 to 227 with a 3% lead in those battleground states in 2016.

    If Biden leads in those states by just 1% that is only a 2% swing from Trump to Biden since 2016 which would see Biden pick up Michigan, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Florida and maybe Arizona and North Carolina.

    That might see him win but would still be only around the same margin for Biden that Obama had over Romney in 2012 and much closer than the 2008 EC lead Obama had over McCain and it only takes a small bounce for Trump after his convention for it to be neck and neck again.

    You also have to remember a lot of state polls in 2016 underestimated the Trump voteshare compared to what he actually got
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,427
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Alistair said:

    FTPT

    HYUFD said:
    I found the poll. http://cdn.cnn.com/cnn/2020/images/08/16/rel8a.-.2020.pdf

    They count 15 states as battleground states. the list of "battlegrounds" is
    Arizona, Florida,Georgia, Iowa, Maine, Michigan, Minnesota, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Mexico, North Carolina, Ohio,Pennsylvania, Texas, and Wisconsin

    Oh no, Biden is struggling in Texas, he is doomed.

    IF Texas, Iowa and Georgia count as battlegrounds then Trump is fucked.
    What d'ye think the motivations are for this now constant 'it's much, much closer than ya think' narrative being pushed? I can see filthy libs wanting to keep their base on its toes but lots of it also from the right. Just morale?
    Facts, if it was a Biden landslide we were heading for he should be at least 5 to 10%+ ahead in the battleground states, not just 1% ahead
    The definition of a set of Battleground States should result in a sample where the two candidates are at a dead heat when the result of the election is a dead heat.

    This supposed set of Battleground States doesn't do that. Biden wins comfortably if he's tied in this set of states.
    Trump won the Electoral College 304 to 227 with a 3% lead in those battleground states in 2016.

    If Biden leads in those states by just 1% that is only a 2% swing from Trump to Biden since 2016 which would see Biden pick up Michigan, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Florida and maybe Arizona and North Carolina.

    That might see him win but would still be only around the same margin for Biden that Obama had over Romney in 2012 and much closer than the 2008 EC lead Obama had over McCain and it only takes a small bounce for Trump after his convention for it to be neck and neck again.

    You also have to remember a lot of state polls in 2016 underestimated the Trump voteshare compared to what he actually got
    It's a much wider margin than 2016, even though it's closer than 2016 in the so-called Battleground States. How does that make sense?

    Conclusion - they chose a set of states to give a closer result in the poll. Just because they call them the Battleground States we don't have to accept that.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,766

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    Alistair said:

    FTPT

    HYUFD said:
    I found the poll. http://cdn.cnn.com/cnn/2020/images/08/16/rel8a.-.2020.pdf

    They count 15 states as battleground states. the list of "battlegrounds" is
    Arizona, Florida,Georgia, Iowa, Maine, Michigan, Minnesota, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Mexico, North Carolina, Ohio,Pennsylvania, Texas, and Wisconsin

    Oh no, Biden is struggling in Texas, he is doomed.

    IF Texas, Iowa and Georgia count as battlegrounds then Trump is fucked.
    And Biden has a 1% lead?

    How many of those 15 states were won by Hillary?
    4.75 (allowing for Maine) I think.

    Texas and Georgia are clearly there for distortion purposes. Good spot by @Alistair
    A very good spot. It transforms the narrative.

    And begs the question - why is Michael Moore ramping for Trump?

    Is it because he wants him to win so he can make some angry films about how how awful he is?
    He’s probably trying to stop the Democrats getting as complacent as they were in 2016, drum it into them that they need to work the marginal states hard.
    Yes, Moore correctly spotted Hillary was in trouble in the rustbelt in October 2016 well before polling day and Trump was making inroads.

    She largely ignored him and focused on Arizona and Texas and Florida and big fundraisers in California

    https://edition.cnn.com/videos/tv/2016/10/31/the-lead-talk-clinton-emails-michael-moore.cnn
    He husband also told her to get a new message out to rural, white voters and the rust belt and campaign there.

    He was ignored.

    iirc the data kids running the campaign said he was so last century.
    The data kids basically said the white working class were so last century too, not surprisingly they responded in an unfavourable way. Bill correctly spotted the message from the white working class revolt of Brexit could happen in the US, the Clinton campaign just redoubled on minorities and college educated coastal voters.


    'Bill didn't buy the excuse that Comey would cost Hillary the election,' said the source. 'As far as he was concerned, all the blame belonged to [campaign manager Robby] Mook, [campaign chairman John] Podesta and Hillary because they displayed a tone-deaf attitude about the feeble economy and its impact on millions and millions of working-class voters.

    'Bill was so red in the face during his conversation with Hillary that I worried he was going to have a heart attack. He got so angry that he threw his phone off the roof of his penthouse apartment and toward the Arkansas River.'
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3935800/Days-losing-election-Hillary-Bill-Clinton-sceaming-match-blame-flagging-campaign-ex-president-angry-threw-phone-roof-Arkansas-penthouse.html
    Hillary's team basically repeated the same mistake they'd made against Barack Obama in the primaries 12 years earlier: piling up votes but not delegates.
    Bill always was a ton of miles better at retail politics than Hillary. I think he has a gut feel for voters.

    Sadly, Trump has it too.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,999
    edited August 2020
    I'm sure everyone would like to take this opportunity to agree with Eleanor Penny of Novara Media.

    https://twitter.com/eleanorkpenny/status/1299332486389002245?s=20
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    Alistair said:

    FTPT

    HYUFD said:
    I found the poll. http://cdn.cnn.com/cnn/2020/images/08/16/rel8a.-.2020.pdf

    They count 15 states as battleground states. the list of "battlegrounds" is
    Arizona, Florida,Georgia, Iowa, Maine, Michigan, Minnesota, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Mexico, North Carolina, Ohio,Pennsylvania, Texas, and Wisconsin

    Oh no, Biden is struggling in Texas, he is doomed.

    IF Texas, Iowa and Georgia count as battlegrounds then Trump is fucked.
    The fact that Texas is trending purple is something to give the US Republicans sleepless nights. And this is a long term trend...
    There’s lots of Californians moving to Texas because California is turning to sh....

    There’s lots of Texans telling the newcomers not to bring their sh.. politics with them!
    This California? https://www.statista.com/statistics/306775/california-gdp-growth/#:~:text=In 2019, the real GDP of California grew,real GDP in California from 2000 to 2019
    The one that grew by 4.7% in 2019 and has consistently outgrown the US economy for practically ever?
    This surprises me.

    Maybe all the talk of people fed up with the state and leaving is just that.
    The Californian economy has actually overtaken that of the UK. With the behemoths in Silicon Valley still growing like start ups it will continue to pummel ahead.

    None of this necessarily makes it a nice place to live of course. The stories about the homeless in San Fran, for example, are heartbreaking.
    You're right. Los Angeles, with its perfect weather, its sea and mountains and great restaurants, is all absolute hell hole.
    Some parts of it are, others aren't. The shitty parts of LA felt like a third world nation, it was very odd.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,366
    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    Alistair said:

    FTPT

    HYUFD said:
    I found the poll. http://cdn.cnn.com/cnn/2020/images/08/16/rel8a.-.2020.pdf

    They count 15 states as battleground states. the list of "battlegrounds" is
    Arizona, Florida,Georgia, Iowa, Maine, Michigan, Minnesota, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Mexico, North Carolina, Ohio,Pennsylvania, Texas, and Wisconsin

    Oh no, Biden is struggling in Texas, he is doomed.

    IF Texas, Iowa and Georgia count as battlegrounds then Trump is fucked.
    The fact that Texas is trending purple is something to give the US Republicans sleepless nights. And this is a long term trend...
    There’s lots of Californians moving to Texas because California is turning to sh....

    There’s lots of Texans telling the newcomers not to bring their sh.. politics with them!
    This California? https://www.statista.com/statistics/306775/california-gdp-growth/#:~:text=In 2019, the real GDP of California grew,real GDP in California from 2000 to 2019
    The one that grew by 4.7% in 2019 and has consistently outgrown the US economy for practically ever?
    This surprises me.

    Maybe all the talk of people fed up with the state and leaving is just that.
    The Californian economy has actually overtaken that of the UK. With the behemoths in Silicon Valley still growing like start ups it will continue to pummel ahead.

    None of this necessarily makes it a nice place to live of course. The stories about the homeless in San Fran, for example, are heartbreaking.
    You're right. Los Angeles, with its perfect weather, its sea and mountains and great restaurants, is all absolute hell hole.
    It's everything that is right and wrong in the US.

    If you have the money - awesome. Otherwise, not so much.

    For example, the whole ban-temp-workers thing is actually about health care. Since health care is employer provided in the US model, not offering such benefits to temp workers is (a) a big saving and (b) is seen as social dumping. If you are on high six-figures, you just buy health insurance and laugh.... If you are not...
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    MikeL said:

    Biden has shortened from approx 1.93 to now 1.85 in the last hour or so.

    I put it down to my post.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226
    HYUFD said:

    Alistair said:

    FTPT

    HYUFD said:
    I found the poll. http://cdn.cnn.com/cnn/2020/images/08/16/rel8a.-.2020.pdf

    They count 15 states as battleground states. the list of "battlegrounds" is
    Arizona, Florida,Georgia, Iowa, Maine, Michigan, Minnesota, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Mexico, North Carolina, Ohio,Pennsylvania, Texas, and Wisconsin

    Oh no, Biden is struggling in Texas, he is doomed.

    IF Texas, Iowa and Georgia count as battlegrounds then Trump is fucked.
    What d'ye think the motivations are for this now constant 'it's much, much closer than ya think' narrative being pushed? I can see filthy libs wanting to keep their base on its toes but lots of it also from the right. Just morale?
    Facts, if it was a Biden landslide we were heading for he should be at least 5 to 10%+ ahead in the battleground states, not just 1% ahead
    Depends what we're calling a landslide.

    How much EC margin qualifies iyo?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,137

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Alistair said:

    FTPT

    HYUFD said:
    I found the poll. http://cdn.cnn.com/cnn/2020/images/08/16/rel8a.-.2020.pdf

    They count 15 states as battleground states. the list of "battlegrounds" is
    Arizona, Florida,Georgia, Iowa, Maine, Michigan, Minnesota, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Mexico, North Carolina, Ohio,Pennsylvania, Texas, and Wisconsin

    Oh no, Biden is struggling in Texas, he is doomed.

    IF Texas, Iowa and Georgia count as battlegrounds then Trump is fucked.
    What d'ye think the motivations are for this now constant 'it's much, much closer than ya think' narrative being pushed? I can see filthy libs wanting to keep their base on its toes but lots of it also from the right. Just morale?
    Facts, if it was a Biden landslide we were heading for he should be at least 5 to 10%+ ahead in the battleground states, not just 1% ahead
    The definition of a set of Battleground States should result in a sample where the two candidates are at a dead heat when the result of the election is a dead heat.

    This supposed set of Battleground States doesn't do that. Biden wins comfortably if he's tied in this set of states.
    Trump won the Electoral College 304 to 227 with a 3% lead in those battleground states in 2016.

    If Biden leads in those states by just 1% that is only a 2% swing from Trump to Biden since 2016 which would see Biden pick up Michigan, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Florida and maybe Arizona and North Carolina.

    That might see him win but would still be only around the same margin for Biden that Obama had over Romney in 2012 and much closer than the 2008 EC lead Obama had over McCain and it only takes a small bounce for Trump after his convention for it to be neck and neck again.

    You also have to remember a lot of state polls in 2016 underestimated the Trump voteshare compared to what he actually got
    It's a much wider margin than 2016, even though it's closer than 2016 in the so-called Battleground States. How does that make sense?

    Conclusion - they chose a set of states to give a closer result in the poll. Just because they call them the Battleground States we don't have to accept that.
    They are, all the top 10 closest Trump states are included as well as some of the closest Hillary states like Minnesota, New Hampshire, Nevada and New Mexico
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205
    If you were a major broadcaster and wanted some apparently close polls, sticking Ohio and Texas into a battleground selection is a good way to do that.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,222
    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    Alistair said:

    FTPT

    HYUFD said:
    I found the poll. http://cdn.cnn.com/cnn/2020/images/08/16/rel8a.-.2020.pdf

    They count 15 states as battleground states. the list of "battlegrounds" is
    Arizona, Florida,Georgia, Iowa, Maine, Michigan, Minnesota, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Mexico, North Carolina, Ohio,Pennsylvania, Texas, and Wisconsin

    Oh no, Biden is struggling in Texas, he is doomed.

    IF Texas, Iowa and Georgia count as battlegrounds then Trump is fucked.
    The fact that Texas is trending purple is something to give the US Republicans sleepless nights. And this is a long term trend...
    There’s lots of Californians moving to Texas because California is turning to sh....

    There’s lots of Texans telling the newcomers not to bring their sh.. politics with them!
    This California? https://www.statista.com/statistics/306775/california-gdp-growth/#:~:text=In 2019, the real GDP of California grew,real GDP in California from 2000 to 2019
    The one that grew by 4.7% in 2019 and has consistently outgrown the US economy for practically ever?
    This surprises me.

    Maybe all the talk of people fed up with the state and leaving is just that.
    The Californian economy has actually overtaken that of the UK. With the behemoths in Silicon Valley still growing like start ups it will continue to pummel ahead.

    None of this necessarily makes it a nice place to live of course. The stories about the homeless in San Fran, for example, are heartbreaking.
    You're right. Los Angeles, with its perfect weather, its sea and mountains and great restaurants, is all absolute hell hole.
    But the people... :smile:
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,036
    Any news on the Yorkshire lockdown zone? Are we able to rejoin polite society yet?
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited August 2020
    MaxPB said:

    Some parts of it are, others aren't. The shitty parts of LA felt like a third world nation, it was very odd.

    LA is like a rather grotty motorway service station extending for a hundred miles in all directions.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    I hold Robby Mook personally responsible for Trump.

    Absolute fucking grade a moron.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    Alistair said:

    FTPT

    HYUFD said:
    I found the poll. http://cdn.cnn.com/cnn/2020/images/08/16/rel8a.-.2020.pdf

    They count 15 states as battleground states. the list of "battlegrounds" is
    Arizona, Florida,Georgia, Iowa, Maine, Michigan, Minnesota, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Mexico, North Carolina, Ohio,Pennsylvania, Texas, and Wisconsin

    Oh no, Biden is struggling in Texas, he is doomed.

    IF Texas, Iowa and Georgia count as battlegrounds then Trump is fucked.
    The fact that Texas is trending purple is something to give the US Republicans sleepless nights. And this is a long term trend...
    There’s lots of Californians moving to Texas because California is turning to sh....

    There’s lots of Texans telling the newcomers not to bring their sh.. politics with them!
    This California? https://www.statista.com/statistics/306775/california-gdp-growth/#:~:text=In 2019, the real GDP of California grew,real GDP in California from 2000 to 2019
    The one that grew by 4.7% in 2019 and has consistently outgrown the US economy for practically ever?
    This surprises me.

    Maybe all the talk of people fed up with the state and leaving is just that.
    The Californian economy has actually overtaken that of the UK. With the behemoths in Silicon Valley still growing like start ups it will continue to pummel ahead.

    None of this necessarily makes it a nice place to live of course. The stories about the homeless in San Fran, for example, are heartbreaking.
    You're right. Los Angeles, with its perfect weather, its sea and mountains and great restaurants, is all absolute hell hole.
    Some parts of it are, others aren't. The shitty parts of LA felt like a third world nation, it was very odd.
    If you are minded to take a trip north to south in, say, Kentucky, you will start out with stud farms and miles and miles of immaculate white picket fences, and you will end up with people selling their socks on their porches.

    All within the same State.

    The US truly is a land of contrast.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205
    Alistair said:

    MikeL said:

    Biden has shortened from approx 1.93 to now 1.85 in the last hour or so.

    I put it down to my post.
    Bookies have 66% of money in the market on Trump right now apparently. Biden heading to 10-11 likely rebalanced that a bit.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868


    LA is like a rather grotty motorway service station extending for a hundred miles in all directions.

    Except Santa Monica, absolutely great place. It's the only part of LA I find liveable.
This discussion has been closed.