Businesses need to be adapting and realise that commuting might not ever return like it was before - and frankly that could be a good thing.
There's nothing wrong with that other than the fact that a huge portion of "adapting" here really just equates to "massive downsizing".
Maybe in the long run it will be a good thing, but not in the short term.
The other problem is a lot of the public transport is not going to be in much better shape without commuters in the long run.
The government's best bet is to do an equivalent to "Eat out to help out" for trains etc. to get people going back to city centres. Not even necessarily just to commute for work but for recreation, shopping trips, cinema trips, weekend socialising etc. Times when the network would generally be quieter anyway, to get the load spread more evenly.
It could be a free trip with a Deltic on the front - I'm still not catching a train.
What about if they used compartment stock and you had one to yourself?
Businesses need to be adapting and realise that commuting might not ever return like it was before - and frankly that could be a good thing.
There's nothing wrong with that other than the fact that a huge portion of "adapting" here really just equates to "massive downsizing".
Maybe in the long run it will be a good thing, but not in the short term.
The other problem is a lot of the public transport is not going to be in much better shape without commuters in the long run.
The government's best bet is to do an equivalent to "Eat out to help out" for trains etc. to get people going back to city centres. Not even necessarily just to commute for work but for recreation, shopping trips, cinema trips, weekend socialising etc. Times when the network would generally be quieter anyway, to get the load spread more evenly.
Here in Noo Yawk, the Metropolitan Transportation Authority is proposing apocalyptic levels of service cuts because of the huge shortfall in fare revenue. The subway has already ended overnight service completely and would cut daytime service by 40%, as would NYC buses. This would result in even peak time headways of in excess of 15 minutes between trains on some lines.
Commuter rail (Metro-North and the Long Island RR) would be cut by 50%, with most stations receiving only one train an hour, even at peak, and entire branches would be suspended including the only commuter rail lines serving the counties west of the Hudson River.
Even if my office opened up tomorrow with no restrictions, public transport cuts like that would make it next to impossible to get in for a normal day's work at the office. I'd have no choice but to request permanent WFH or look for a new job from an employer that supports remote working.
People who are less likely to be working want those younger than them to go back to the office, presumably they think WFH is lounging about and "it was much harder in my day"
Apart from we keep getting told its the young that want to go back to the office and they will miss out on networking if not. CF MaxPb for an example of this. I am much older than you I suspect but still working and I welcome with open hands wfh for all that can and think its down to businesses to work out that they are in the wrong place and move. For those that can't move such as those that charge expensive rents on premises because its town centre innit....I shed no tears in fact I may even point and laugh
Personally I think they should just remove unnecessary barriers to working in the office (like face masks on train when there is no covid about) then leave it up to businesses and employees - Some will want to work at home, some won't but it should be be something debated as a massive divide between people as it really is a decision for individual businesses and staff not something to legislate or push either way by government.
How are masks a barrier to working in the office? They're the opposite.
Masks in workplaces only encourage attendance for that fraction of the population which is currently working from home but would really like to go back to work, and for whom terror of Covid is sufficiently great that there must be masks everywhere (i.e. social distancing alone is insufficient.)
For everybody else, they are either an irrelevance (people who don't mind wearing masks all day) or a disincentive (people who dislike wearing masks all day, and would rather keep working from home to avoid having to bother.)
Now, what do you think the desperate to wear masks:don't care either way:would rather not thank you very much ratio looks like?
People who are less likely to be working want those younger than them to go back to the office, presumably they think WFH is lounging about and "it was much harder in my day"
Apart from we keep getting told its the young that want to go back to the office and they will miss out on networking if not. CF MaxPb for an example of this. I am much older than you I suspect but still working and I welcome with open hands wfh for all that can and think its down to businesses to work out that they are in the wrong place and move. For those that can't move such as those that charge expensive rents on premises because its town centre innit....I shed no tears in fact I may even point and laugh
Personally I think they should just remove unnecessary barriers to working in the office (like face masks on train when there is no covid about) then leave it up to businesses and employees - Some will want to work at home, some won't but it should be be something debated as a massive divide between people as it really is a decision for individual businesses and staff not something to legislate or push either way by government.
How are masks a barrier to working in the office? They're the opposite.
People who are less likely to be working want those younger than them to go back to the office, presumably they think WFH is lounging about and "it was much harder in my day"
Apart from we keep getting told its the young that want to go back to the office and they will miss out on networking if not. CF MaxPb for an example of this. I am much older than you I suspect but still working and I welcome with open hands wfh for all that can and think its down to businesses to work out that they are in the wrong place and move. For those that can't move such as those that charge expensive rents on premises because its town centre innit....I shed no tears in fact I may even point and laugh
Personally I think they should just remove unnecessary barriers to working in the office (like face masks on train when there is no covid about) then leave it up to businesses and employees - Some will want to work at home, some won't but it should be be something debated as a massive divide between people as it really is a decision for individual businesses and staff not something to legislate or push either way by government.
How are masks a barrier to working in the office? They're the opposite.
Masks in workplaces only encourage attendance for that fraction of the population which is currently working from home but would really like to go back to work, and for whom terror of Covid is sufficiently great that there must be masks everywhere (i.e. social distancing alone is insufficient.)
For everybody else, they are either an irrelevance (people who don't mind wearing masks all day) or a disincentive (people who dislike wearing masks all day, and would rather keep working from home to avoid having to bother.)
Now, what do you think the desperate to wear masks:don't care either way:would rather not thank you very much ratio looks like?
We are not talking about masks all day, just on transport. If people feel safer getting to work if others are masked then it is a barrier to getting in to work removed.
First, thanks to Robert for all his work behind the scenes on the site - it is very much appreciated.
Second, congratulations to Sir Ed Davey on winning the Liberal Democrat leadership election - though I didn't vote for him I'm pleased he has won. He takes on the party in as bad a state as Paddy did in early 1988 and the Ashdown years weren't wholly unsuccessful.
He'll need some luck (all politicians do) but I wish him well.
Businesses need to be adapting and realise that commuting might not ever return like it was before - and frankly that could be a good thing.
There's nothing wrong with that other than the fact that a huge portion of "adapting" here really just equates to "massive downsizing".
Maybe in the long run it will be a good thing, but not in the short term.
The other problem is a lot of the public transport is not going to be in much better shape without commuters in the long run.
The government's best bet is to do an equivalent to "Eat out to help out" for trains etc. to get people going back to city centres. Not even necessarily just to commute for work but for recreation, shopping trips, cinema trips, weekend socialising etc. Times when the network would generally be quieter anyway, to get the load spread more evenly.
It could be a free trip with a Deltic on the front - I'm still not catching a train.
What about if they used compartment stock and you had one to yourself?
Boarding, alighting, going to the bog. Who was in the compo before me? No thanks.
I just think if you’re a sociable person - I’m a software eng but quite sociable which is quite rare believe me - and I’ve found ways to socialise without work.
Online political discussion boards don't count though
Do WoW guilds though ?
Doe WoW still exist? I last played it before I got married, and I've been married for fourteen years now.
Wow still exists and you can even play classic now with a level cap of 60. Also everquest and eve are still going and even second life
Second life is for people who don't have a first life.
Sandra White (Glasgow Kelvin) to retire next year. Another one of the 1999 class to bow out. 13th SNP MSP to announce retirement (+ Aberdeen Donside and Renfrewshire North and West being also "open")
First, thanks to Robert for all his work behind the scenes on the site - it is very much appreciated.
Second, congratulations to Sir Ed Davey on winning the Liberal Democrat leadership election - though I didn't vote for him I'm pleased he has won. He takes on the party in as bad a state as Paddy did in early 1988 and the Ashdown years weren't wholly unsuccessful.
He'll need some luck (all politicians do) but I wish him well.
I think that Davey's victory is good news for Labour. Wavering Tories are more likely to lend their support to a party led by a former coalition minister than one led by a woketastic lefty radical.
I just think if you’re a sociable person - I’m a software eng but quite sociable which is quite rare believe me - and I’ve found ways to socialise without work.
Online political discussion boards don't count though
Do WoW guilds though ?
Doe WoW still exist? I last played it before I got married, and I've been married for fourteen years now.
Wow still exists and you can even play classic now with a level cap of 60. Also everquest and eve are still going and even second life
Second life is for people who don't have a first life.
I worked for an marketing/ads company that in all seriousness opened an "office" in Second Life.
First, thanks to Robert for all his work behind the scenes on the site - it is very much appreciated.
Second, congratulations to Sir Ed Davey on winning the Liberal Democrat leadership election - though I didn't vote for him I'm pleased he has won. He takes on the party in as bad a state as Paddy did in early 1988 and the Ashdown years weren't wholly unsuccessful.
He'll need some luck (all politicians do) but I wish him well.
I think that Davey's victory is good news for Labour. Wavering Tories are more likely to lend their support to a party led by a former coalition minister than one led by a woketastic lefty radical.
That helps get Keir into No. 10.
If Keir himself is seen as woketastic or as a front for the woketastic then it could work the other way.
Who would go into a city centre for recreation? If I live in the sticks there are pubs near me, restaurants near me. The exception might be the draw of london.
Massive downsizing doesnt matter because their will now be jobs crying out for staff as those commuter town boarded up shops get taken over to launch cafes etc as they now actually have a clientele. Those staff that move outwards will also find their cost of living reduced. Those that demand to live and work in london will merely find they have less choice
As soon as I saw the Mail (the voice of the desk-bound office worker) wheeling out Carolyn Fairbairn to urge us all back to our desks I could see it was going to cause some controversy. This from a paper which employs people to stand outside Government offices and count the civil servants arriving for work - no surprise given its traditional contempt for the public sector in general and the London-based civil service in particular.
I suspect once the children are back in school working at home will get a new lease of life and even more as the weather closes in for the autumn and winter. Why trudge in the rain to the station or sit in a traffic jam when you can get everything done at home?
Now, for some plain speaking - I'm not risking my health to save Pret a Manger. The job losses in those businesses dependent on office workers aren't going to be nice but jobs are lost and created all the time even when things are going well. There are new jobs in home delivery and in a myriad of industries devoted to home working and while I accept that's not for everyone, I cannot accept it is Sunak's responsibility to try to save every business and every job.
It would be a travesty of the spirit of capitalism were he to try so to do. Capitalism is brutal but adversity creates opportunity and businesses which are adept or can adapt will prosper and those which don't go under.
Government should be about recognising the home working revolution and facilitating and empowering the new small businesses set up to support it.
People who are less likely to be working want those younger than them to go back to the office, presumably they think WFH is lounging about and "it was much harder in my day"
Apart from we keep getting told its the young that want to go back to the office and they will miss out on networking if not. CF MaxPb for an example of this. I am much older than you I suspect but still working and I welcome with open hands wfh for all that can and think its down to businesses to work out that they are in the wrong place and move. For those that can't move such as those that charge expensive rents on premises because its town centre innit....I shed no tears in fact I may even point and laugh
Personally I think they should just remove unnecessary barriers to working in the office (like face masks on train when there is no covid about) then leave it up to businesses and employees - Some will want to work at home, some won't but it should be be something debated as a massive divide between people as it really is a decision for individual businesses and staff not something to legislate or push either way by government.
How are masks a barrier to working in the office? They're the opposite.
Masks in workplaces only encourage attendance for that fraction of the population which is currently working from home but would really like to go back to work, and for whom terror of Covid is sufficiently great that there must be masks everywhere (i.e. social distancing alone is insufficient.)
For everybody else, they are either an irrelevance (people who don't mind wearing masks all day) or a disincentive (people who dislike wearing masks all day, and would rather keep working from home to avoid having to bother.)
Now, what do you think the desperate to wear masks:don't care either way:would rather not thank you very much ratio looks like?
We are not talking about masks all day, just on transport. If people feel safer getting to work if others are masked then it is a barrier to getting in to work removed.
To be fair I simply responded to the question "How are masks a barrier to working in the office?"
I think we're going to find out how much of a barrier they are at some point during the course of next month. The UK Government will insist that people won't be made to go around their workplaces in masks all day, Nicola Sturgeon will decide that this is essential, and then Boris Johnson will cave 2-3 days later.
This is all very well for the legions of WFH workers who can just lobby their employers to stay in their homes for the duration - and they surely will, in great numbers - but it's going to mean gasping through a damp rag all day misery for those of us who don't have that luxury.
Back when mask creep first started, some people said I was being hysterical when I predicted that it would eventually be illegal to be practically anywhere outside your own home without a mask on. But that's pretty much where they've got to in Paris already. I reckon compulsory masks everywhere indoors by the end of September, and everywhere outdoors by the end of November. The latter is the obvious first panic measure that will come in when coughs and sneezes get going in earnest later in the Autumn. Watch.
One American poll so far showing Biden up 49-42 in Pennsylvania (the sampling was 47% Democrat, 40% Republican and 11% Independent).
Thanks to @Peter_the_Punter for hos kind word on my analysis last evening.
I remain of the view Biden is doing well in his strongholds and perversely in Trump's strongholds yet not so well in some of the key swing states. The swing in those is 2-3% while elsewhere it's more like 4-6%.
Trump is doing quite well in the key mid-western and southern swing states but he is behind in a lot of them though not so far that could not be reversed between now and November.
The problem for both candidates is the electorate seems highly polarised with only a small number (5-8%) not yet decided. Antipathy to both candidates and enthusiasm for both candidates is widespread.
Biden needs to get the Democrat vote out and hope he can erode the 2016 gap among both White voters and Independents. His strength is in the female vote where he consistently holds big leads while men and especially white men still favour Trump.
The AV thread is still going strong over on the Rail Forums site. There's also a thread on the next Tory leader and someone has tipped Priti. Full disclosure: it wasn't me!
Sandbach Services is the border for me between North and Midlands. The M62, Warrington down to Holmes Chapel and Congleton are in the North. Stoke etc are in the West Midlands.
Watford Gap Services marks the beginning of the South.
Same for me
The South starts at the point where they got things wrong today :-) .
Sandbach Services is the border for me between North and Midlands. The M62, Warrington down to Holmes Chapel and Congleton are in the North. Stoke etc are in the West Midlands.
Watford Gap Services marks the beginning of the South.
Same for me
The South starts at the point where they got things wrong today :-) .
I think it’s a bit north of Llangennech, to be fair.
Businesses need to be adapting and realise that commuting might not ever return like it was before - and frankly that could be a good thing.
There's nothing wrong with that other than the fact that a huge portion of "adapting" here really just equates to "massive downsizing".
Maybe in the long run it will be a good thing, but not in the short term.
The other problem is a lot of the public transport is not going to be in much better shape without commuters in the logn run.
The government's best bet is to do an equivalent to "Eat out to help out" for trains etc. to get people going back to city centres. Not even necessarily just to commute for work but for recreation, shopping trips, cinema trips, weekend socialising etc.
Who would go into a city centre for recreation? If I live in the sticks there are pubs near me, restaurants near me. The exception might be the draw of london.
Massive downsizing doesnt matter because their will now be jobs crying out for staff as those commuter town boarded up shops get taken over to launch cafes etc as they now actually have a clientele. Those staff that move outwards will also find their cost of living reduced. Those that demand to live and work in london will merely find they have less choice
The draw of socialising in the city is of course the range and variety of entertainment options, and the fact you are more likely to be able to get there, and subsequently move around, by public transport. I can get to London cheaper than I can get a taxi to most of my local pubs. Also your local pub in the sticks might be crap.
Although in the long run, it may very well encourage services in rural areas and commuter towns that are currently losing them. Having been working from home for a number of months now, and as I live on my own, I find that major weekend social activities aren't a problem, but something local midweek to break up the monotony of the same four walls would be nice. At least when I commuted, I saw somewhere different, got to use different shops, had at east a passing conversation with work colleagues, and, in summer at least, had a nice drive home from one of the offices on country roads.
I just think if you’re a sociable person - I’m a software eng but quite sociable which is quite rare believe me - and I’ve found ways to socialise without work.
Online political discussion boards don't count though
Do WoW guilds though ?
Doe WoW still exist? I last played it before I got married, and I've been married for fourteen years now.
I preferred the original base-building strategy Warcraft games before WoW. Played the original, II and III and think a shame with WoW taking off is there's never been a IV as a result.
That style of strategy game used to be quite common and well made, don't get many of them nowadays it seems. Now most strategy games like that seem to be online, build and then wait or pay premium currency to not wait types instead.
Agreed. Dune II, Command & Conquer, Stronghold, Age of Empires, Warcraft II, Total Annihilation.. there were loads of them.
I just think if you’re a sociable person - I’m a software eng but quite sociable which is quite rare believe me - and I’ve found ways to socialise without work.
Online political discussion boards don't count though
Do WoW guilds though ?
Doe WoW still exist? I last played it before I got married, and I've been married for fourteen years now.
Probably one of those instances where correlation does equal causation.
Businesses need to be adapting and realise that commuting might not ever return like it was before - and frankly that could be a good thing.
There's nothing wrong with that other than the fact that a huge portion of "adapting" here really just equates to "massive downsizing".
Maybe in the long run it will be a good thing, but not in the short term.
The other problem is a lot of the public transport is not going to be in much better shape without commuters in the long run.
The government's best bet is to do an equivalent to "Eat out to help out" for trains etc. to get people going back to city centres. Not even necessarily just to commute for work but for recreation, shopping trips, cinema trips, weekend socialising etc. Times when the network would generally be quieter anyway, to get the load spread more evenly.
It could be a free trip with a Deltic on the front - I'm still not catching a train.
OK, you can ride in the cab of the Deltic..... In?
Businesses need to be adapting and realise that commuting might not ever return like it was before - and frankly that could be a good thing.
There's nothing wrong with that other than the fact that a huge portion of "adapting" here really just equates to "massive downsizing".
Maybe in the long run it will be a good thing, but not in the short term.
The other problem is a lot of the public transport is not going to be in much better shape without commuters in the logn run.
The government's best bet is to do an equivalent to "Eat out to help out" for trains etc. to get people going back to city centres. Not even necessarily just to commute for work but for recreation, shopping trips, cinema trips, weekend socialising etc.
Who would go into a city centre for recreation? If I live in the sticks there are pubs near me, restaurants near me. The exception might be the draw of london.
Massive downsizing doesnt matter because their will now be jobs crying out for staff as those commuter town boarded up shops get taken over to launch cafes etc as they now actually have a clientele. Those staff that move outwards will also find their cost of living reduced. Those that demand to live and work in london will merely find they have less choice
If there are pubs and restaurants near you I'm not that sure you're particularly in the sticks. I think there's plenty of people who go to cities because that's where "stuff" is. But perhaps my point of view is specifically driven by the Central Belt in Scotland. You don't need to go too far from Glasgow or Edinburgh to not really have that much of interest around you from a social perspective. Those are the hubs for me, anyway. Maybe it's entirely different in the more built up areas in England. Maybe we no longer need trains there.
But, laying aside the aspects of devolution and differences in the response to the pandemic by the different governments for a different thread, I don't really see how Scotrail works as a sustainable business model if, minus commuters, only some relatively small fraction of people need to travel to Glasgow or Edinburgh now.
Mike Smithson is correct in his comments re- Wokingham , but wide of the mark when it comes to Wimbledon. Labour held the latter seat 1997 - 2005 and had a strong result there in 2017.The party fell back into 3rd place there in 2019 but still has a chance of repeating what it managed in Portsmouth South in 2017 and several seats in 1997 - ie winning from 3rd place. That is even more likely to be true in seats such as Finchley & Golders Green and Cities of London & westminster next time.
Who would go into a city centre for recreation? If I live in the sticks there are pubs near me, restaurants near me. The exception might be the draw of london.
Massive downsizing doesnt matter because their will now be jobs crying out for staff as those commuter town boarded up shops get taken over to launch cafes etc as they now actually have a clientele. Those staff that move outwards will also find their cost of living reduced. Those that demand to live and work in london will merely find they have less choice
As soon as I saw the Mail (the voice of the desk-bound office worker) wheeling out Carolyn Fairbairn to urge us all back to our desks I could see it was going to cause some controversy. This from a paper which employs people to stand outside Government offices and count the civil servants arriving for work - no surprise given its traditional contempt for the public sector in general and the London-based civil service in particular.
I suspect once the children are back in school working at home will get a new lease of life and even more as the weather closes in for the autumn and winter. Why trudge in the rain to the station or sit in a traffic jam when you can get everything done at home?
Now, for some plain speaking - I'm not risking my health to save Pret a Manger. The job losses in those businesses dependent on office workers aren't going to be nice but jobs are lost and created all the time even when things are going well. There are new jobs in home delivery and in a myriad of industries devoted to home working and while I accept that's not for everyone, I cannot accept it is Sunak's responsibility to try to save every business and every job.
It would be a travesty of the spirit of capitalism were he to try so to do. Capitalism is brutal but adversity creates opportunity and businesses which are adept or can adapt will prosper and those which don't go under.
Government should be about recognising the home working revolution and facilitating and empowering the new small businesses set up to support it.
I agree as well.
I rather think the murmurings about going back to the office, from the government, are a palliative for those angry at what is heading their way.
It is not going to be just a few hundreds of big commercial landlords - it will be many hundred of thousands of people losing their jobs.
New jobs may well be created in other locations. The spend may just move to the high streets in the urban areas...
But the fact that it will be very unpleasant for many people should not be ignored.
I just think if you’re a sociable person - I’m a software eng but quite sociable which is quite rare believe me - and I’ve found ways to socialise without work.
Online political discussion boards don't count though
Do WoW guilds though ?
Doe WoW still exist? I last played it before I got married, and I've been married for fourteen years now.
I preferred the original base-building strategy Warcraft games before WoW. Played the original, II and III and think a shame with WoW taking off is there's never been a IV as a result.
That style of strategy game used to be quite common and well made, don't get many of them nowadays it seems. Now most strategy games like that seem to be online, build and then wait or pay premium currency to not wait types instead.
Agreed. Dune II, Command & Conquer, Stronghold, Age of Empires, Warcraft II, Total Annihilation.. there were loads of them.
Yes I loved all of those.
I don't know why that genre doesn't sell much anymore, it's a shame.
Businesses need to be adapting and realise that commuting might not ever return like it was before - and frankly that could be a good thing.
There's nothing wrong with that other than the fact that a huge portion of "adapting" here really just equates to "massive downsizing".
Maybe in the long run it will be a good thing, but not in the short term.
The other problem is a lot of the public transport is not going to be in much better shape without commuters in the logn run.
The government's best bet is to do an equivalent to "Eat out to help out" for trains etc. to get people going back to city centres. Not even necessarily just to commute for work but for recreation, shopping trips, cinema trips, weekend socialising etc.
Who would go into a city centre for recreation? If I live in the sticks there are pubs near me, restaurants near me. The exception might be the draw of london.
Massive downsizing doesnt matter because their will now be jobs crying out for staff as those commuter town boarded up shops get taken over to launch cafes etc as they now actually have a clientele. Those staff that move outwards will also find their cost of living reduced. Those that demand to live and work in london will merely find they have less choice
If there are pubs and restaurants near you I'm not that sure you're particularly in the sticks. I think there's plenty of people who go to cities because that's where "stuff" is. But perhaps my point of view is specifically driven by the Central Belt in Scotland. You don't need to go too far from Glasgow or Edinburgh to not really have that much of interest around you from a social perspective. Those are the hubs for me, anyway. Maybe it's entirely different in the more built up areas in England. Maybe we no longer need trains there.
But, laying aside the aspects of devolution and differences in the response to the pandemic by the different governments for a different thread, I don't really see how Scotrail works as a sustainable business model if, minus commuters, only some relatively small fraction of people need to travel to Glasgow or Edinburgh now.
Numbers on public transport will recover, given time. WFH is here to stay but, however long the Plague panic goes on for, it won't be forever. Tourism will pick up. Older people will get out more. Many workers will commute part-time rather than continuing to do everything remotely. There'll be more travel generally, and people who can't drive, don't want to drive or can't afford to run a car will need trains (and buses, lest we forget.) It's simply the case that trains will have to be run on a different basis, and will be more heavily reliant on subsidy.
I just think if you’re a sociable person - I’m a software eng but quite sociable which is quite rare believe me - and I’ve found ways to socialise without work.
Online political discussion boards don't count though
Do WoW guilds though ?
Doe WoW still exist? I last played it before I got married, and I've been married for fourteen years now.
I preferred the original base-building strategy Warcraft games before WoW. Played the original, II and III and think a shame with WoW taking off is there's never been a IV as a result.
That style of strategy game used to be quite common and well made, don't get many of them nowadays it seems. Now most strategy games like that seem to be online, build and then wait or pay premium currency to not wait types instead.
Agreed. Dune II, Command & Conquer, Stronghold, Age of Empires, Warcraft II, Total Annihilation.. there were loads of them.
A great list of games there! Hoping that Tiberian Sun and Red Alert 2 get remasters. RA2 has got to be my favourite RTS game of all time. So many wasted hours!
I just think if you’re a sociable person - I’m a software eng but quite sociable which is quite rare believe me - and I’ve found ways to socialise without work.
Online political discussion boards don't count though
Do WoW guilds though ?
Doe WoW still exist? I last played it before I got married, and I've been married for fourteen years now.
Wow still exists and you can even play classic now with a level cap of 60. Also everquest and eve are still going and even second life
Second life is for people who don't have a first life.
I worked for an marketing/ads company that in all seriousness opened an "office" in Second Life.
Businesses need to be adapting and realise that commuting might not ever return like it was before - and frankly that could be a good thing.
There's nothing wrong with that other than the fact that a huge portion of "adapting" here really just equates to "massive downsizing".
Maybe in the long run it will be a good thing, but not in the short term.
The other problem is a lot of the public transport is not going to be in much better shape without commuters in the long run.
The government's best bet is to do an equivalent to "Eat out to help out" for trains etc. to get people going back to city centres. Not even necessarily just to commute for work but for recreation, shopping trips, cinema trips, weekend socialising etc. Times when the network would generally be quieter anyway, to get the load spread more evenly.
It could be a free trip with a Deltic on the front - I'm still not catching a train.
OK, you can ride in the cab of the Deltic..... In?
To be fair I simply responded to the question "How are masks a barrier to working in the office?"
I think we're going to find out how much of a barrier they are at some point during the course of next month. The UK Government will insist that people won't be made to go around their workplaces in masks all day, Nicola Sturgeon will decide that this is essential, and then Boris Johnson will cave 2-3 days later.
This is all very well for the legions of WFH workers who can just lobby their employers to stay in their homes for the duration - and they surely will, in great numbers - but it's going to mean gasping through a damp rag all day misery for those of us who don't have that luxury.
Back when mask creep first started, some people said I was being hysterical when I predicted that it would eventually be illegal to be practically anywhere outside your own home without a mask on. But that's pretty much where they've got to in Paris already. I reckon compulsory masks everywhere indoors by the end of September, and everywhere outdoors by the end of November. The latter is the obvious first panic measure that will come in when coughs and sneezes get going in earnest later in the Autumn. Watch.
I have a colleague recently returned from Turkey. The rules about wearing masks are more stringent than in the UK and the local Police (previously the Army) are zealously enforcing the rules. They are abrupt with the locals but as far as tourists are concerned it's more a polite request and a reminder of the rules.
Why would anyone give a shit about Pret A Manager?
Very expensive, tedious and repetitive sandwiches - they hadn't changed their range for years, except to predictably roll out the same "novelty" range each Christmas - and had a ubiquitous presence that crowded everyone else out.
They went out of their way to avoid employing Britons, emotionally manipulated the staff they did hire, had a poor history of labelling ingredients, and - to cap it all - all the profits accrued to an overseas private equity firm.
Businesses need to be adapting and realise that commuting might not ever return like it was before - and frankly that could be a good thing.
There's nothing wrong with that other than the fact that a huge portion of "adapting" here really just equates to "massive downsizing".
Maybe in the long run it will be a good thing, but not in the short term.
The other problem is a lot of the public transport is not going to be in much better shape without commuters in the logn run.
The government's best bet is to do an equivalent to "Eat out to help out" for trains etc. to get people going back to city centres. Not even necessarily just to commute for work but for recreation, shopping trips, cinema trips, weekend socialising etc.
Who would go into a city centre for recreation? If I live in the sticks there are pubs near me, restaurants near me. The exception might be the draw of london.
Massive downsizing doesnt matter because their will now be jobs crying out for staff as those commuter town boarded up shops get taken over to launch cafes etc as they now actually have a clientele. Those staff that move outwards will also find their cost of living reduced. Those that demand to live and work in london will merely find they have less choice
If there are pubs and restaurants near you I'm not that sure you're particularly in the sticks. I think there's plenty of people who go to cities because that's where "stuff" is. But perhaps my point of view is specifically driven by the Central Belt in Scotland. You don't need to go too far from Glasgow or Edinburgh to not really have that much of interest around you from a social perspective. Those are the hubs for me, anyway. Maybe it's entirely different in the more built up areas in England. Maybe we no longer need trains there.
But, laying aside the aspects of devolution and differences in the response to the pandemic by the different governments for a different thread, I don't really see how Scotrail works as a sustainable business model if, minus commuters, only some relatively small fraction of people need to travel to Glasgow or Edinburgh now.
Numbers on public transport will recover, given time. WFH is here to stay but, however long the Plague panic goes on for, it won't be forever. Tourism will pick up. Older people will get out more. Many workers will commute part-time rather than continuing to do everything remotely. There'll be more travel generally, and people who can't drive, don't want to drive or can't afford to run a car will need trains (and buses, lest we forget.) It's simply the case that trains will have to be run on a different basis, and will be more heavily reliant on subsidy.
The whole TrainsAreTheEnvironmentalAnswer may have to be re-thought. Below a certain capacity, electric cars use less energy than the mostly empty train.
I just think if you’re a sociable person - I’m a software eng but quite sociable which is quite rare believe me - and I’ve found ways to socialise without work.
Online political discussion boards don't count though
Do WoW guilds though ?
Doe WoW still exist? I last played it before I got married, and I've been married for fourteen years now.
I preferred the original base-building strategy Warcraft games before WoW. Played the original, II and III and think a shame with WoW taking off is there's never been a IV as a result.
That style of strategy game used to be quite common and well made, don't get many of them nowadays it seems. Now most strategy games like that seem to be online, build and then wait or pay premium currency to not wait types instead.
Agreed. Dune II, Command & Conquer, Stronghold, Age of Empires, Warcraft II, Total Annihilation.. there were loads of them.
A great list of games there! Hoping that Tiberian Sun and Red Alert 2 get remasters. RA2 has got to be my favourite RTS game of all time. So many wasted hours!
You can get them all now on Origin, if you sign up.
Businesses need to be adapting and realise that commuting might not ever return like it was before - and frankly that could be a good thing.
There's nothing wrong with that other than the fact that a huge portion of "adapting" here really just equates to "massive downsizing".
Maybe in the long run it will be a good thing, but not in the short term.
The other problem is a lot of the public transport is not going to be in much better shape without commuters in the logn run.
The government's best bet is to do an equivalent to "Eat out to help out" for trains etc. to get people going back to city centres. Not even necessarily just to commute for work but for recreation, shopping trips, cinema trips, weekend socialising etc.
Who would go into a city centre for recreation? If I live in the sticks there are pubs near me, restaurants near me. The exception might be the draw of london.
Massive downsizing doesnt matter because their will now be jobs crying out for staff as those commuter town boarded up shops get taken over to launch cafes etc as they now actually have a clientele. Those staff that move outwards will also find their cost of living reduced. Those that demand to live and work in london will merely find they have less choice
If there are pubs and restaurants near you I'm not that sure you're particularly in the sticks. I think there's plenty of people who go to cities because that's where "stuff" is. But perhaps my point of view is specifically driven by the Central Belt in Scotland. You don't need to go too far from Glasgow or Edinburgh to not really have that much of interest around you from a social perspective. Those are the hubs for me, anyway. Maybe it's entirely different in the more built up areas in England. Maybe we no longer need trains there.
But, laying aside the aspects of devolution and differences in the response to the pandemic by the different governments for a different thread, I don't really see how Scotrail works as a sustainable business model if, minus commuters, only some relatively small fraction of people need to travel to Glasgow or Edinburgh now.
Numbers on public transport will recover, given time. WFH is here to stay but, however long the Plague panic goes on for, it won't be forever. Tourism will pick up. Older people will get out more. Many workers will commute part-time rather than continuing to do everything remotely. There'll be more travel generally, and people who can't drive, don't want to drive or can't afford to run a car will need trains (and buses, lest we forget.) It's simply the case that trains will have to be run on a different basis, and will be more heavily reliant on subsidy.
I'm sure they will. I'm sure the same would have been true of pubs and restaurants, but the government decided to give them a helping hand. All I was suggesting was that government might find it beneficial to try the same with city centres by utilising public transport, in essence a two-for-one sort of thing. Trains need the help, city centres need the help, marry the two together.
I just think if you’re a sociable person - I’m a software eng but quite sociable which is quite rare believe me - and I’ve found ways to socialise without work.
Online political discussion boards don't count though
Do WoW guilds though ?
Doe WoW still exist? I last played it before I got married, and I've been married for fourteen years now.
I preferred the original base-building strategy Warcraft games before WoW. Played the original, II and III and think a shame with WoW taking off is there's never been a IV as a result.
That style of strategy game used to be quite common and well made, don't get many of them nowadays it seems. Now most strategy games like that seem to be online, build and then wait or pay premium currency to not wait types instead.
Agreed. Dune II, Command & Conquer, Stronghold, Age of Empires, Warcraft II, Total Annihilation.. there were loads of them.
Yes I loved all of those.
I don't know why that genre doesn't sell much anymore, it's a shame.
Because, we're dated dude.
You can get Rusted Warfare on Steam, now, for like £1.99. It's a homage to that era that works on Windows 10 and Android etc. with the same quality RTS gameplay.
It's in 2D so doesn't require much bandwidth to play. Don't let that you put you off, as the gameplay is awesome.
I just think if you’re a sociable person - I’m a software eng but quite sociable which is quite rare believe me - and I’ve found ways to socialise without work.
Online political discussion boards don't count though
Do WoW guilds though ?
Doe WoW still exist? I last played it before I got married, and I've been married for fourteen years now.
I preferred the original base-building strategy Warcraft games before WoW. Played the original, II and III and think a shame with WoW taking off is there's never been a IV as a result.
That style of strategy game used to be quite common and well made, don't get many of them nowadays it seems. Now most strategy games like that seem to be online, build and then wait or pay premium currency to not wait types instead.
Agreed. Dune II, Command & Conquer, Stronghold, Age of Empires, Warcraft II, Total Annihilation.. there were loads of them.
A great list of games there! Hoping that Tiberian Sun and Red Alert 2 get remasters. RA2 has got to be my favourite RTS game of all time. So many wasted hours!
You can get them all now on Origin, if you sign up.
They released a remastered version of the old C&C a month or so ago. Quite fun to play that again after so long.
Businesses need to be adapting and realise that commuting might not ever return like it was before - and frankly that could be a good thing.
There's nothing wrong with that other than the fact that a huge portion of "adapting" here really just equates to "massive downsizing".
Maybe in the long run it will be a good thing, but not in the short term.
The other problem is a lot of the public transport is not going to be in much better shape without commuters in the logn run.
The government's best bet is to do an equivalent to "Eat out to help out" for trains etc. to get people going back to city centres. Not even necessarily just to commute for work but for recreation, shopping trips, cinema trips, weekend socialising etc.
Who would go into a city centre for recreation? If I live in the sticks there are pubs near me, restaurants near me. The exception might be the draw of london.
Massive downsizing doesnt matter because their will now be jobs crying out for staff as those commuter town boarded up shops get taken over to launch cafes etc as they now actually have a clientele. Those staff that move outwards will also find their cost of living reduced. Those that demand to live and work in london will merely find they have less choice
If there are pubs and restaurants near you I'm not that sure you're particularly in the sticks. I think there's plenty of people who go to cities because that's where "stuff" is. But perhaps my point of view is specifically driven by the Central Belt in Scotland. You don't need to go too far from Glasgow or Edinburgh to not really have that much of interest around you from a social perspective. Those are the hubs for me, anyway. Maybe it's entirely different in the more built up areas in England. Maybe we no longer need trains there.
But, laying aside the aspects of devolution and differences in the response to the pandemic by the different governments for a different thread, I don't really see how Scotrail works as a sustainable business model if, minus commuters, only some relatively small fraction of people need to travel to Glasgow or Edinburgh now.
Numbers on public transport will recover, given time. WFH is here to stay but, however long the Plague panic goes on for, it won't be forever. Tourism will pick up. Older people will get out more. Many workers will commute part-time rather than continuing to do everything remotely. There'll be more travel generally, and people who can't drive, don't want to drive or can't afford to run a car will need trains (and buses, lest we forget.) It's simply the case that trains will have to be run on a different basis, and will be more heavily reliant on subsidy.
The rail subsidy thing might work out OK; commuter railways are expensive to run because you need infrastructure to run huge peak capacity that's only really busy for a couple of hours a day in each direction.
As with all the other knock-ons from WFH, there's a difficult transition coming up that needs to be managed better than the 1980s were. But in this sort of situation, I find it's useful to imagine how we'd feel about the reverse transition...
So, suppose someone said:
1. We will make workers travel to work in places far from their homes. 2. Businesses will have to spend a fortune on these new working spaces. 3. Workers will have to pay to travel to these working spaces. 4. Workers will travel in cramped metal boxes. 5. They will spend many of their Earth pounds to buy damp bread snacks to eat, and other people will have jobs selling these snacks to them.
It's like one of those Cadbury's Smash adverts, only a whole lot darker.
Numbers on public transport will recover, given time. WFH is here to stay but, however long the Plague panic goes on for, it won't be forever. Tourism will pick up. Older people will get out more. Many workers will commute part-time rather than continuing to do everything remotely. There'll be more travel generally, and people who can't drive, don't want to drive or can't afford to run a car will need trains (and buses, lest we forget.) It's simply the case that trains will have to be run on a different basis, and will be more heavily reliant on subsidy.
Yet workers going in 1-2 days per week rather than 5 still means a substantial reduction in numbers (albeit a more comfortable journey for those who are travelling).
The problem is if you pay £3900 for an annual season ticket from Woking to London and you are only going to be travelling 2 days per week, you will buy tickets when you travel and the train company won't get the £3900 sitting in their account earning interest.
That's the economic truth of WFH for train operators so do they reduce services arguing there's no demand or are they supported by Government to continue providing the service even though fewer people are travelling and at what point do they stop operating as a private company and become effectively agents of Government?
Numbers on public transport will recover, given time. WFH is here to stay but, however long the Plague panic goes on for, it won't be forever. Tourism will pick up. Older people will get out more. Many workers will commute part-time rather than continuing to do everything remotely. There'll be more travel generally, and people who can't drive, don't want to drive or can't afford to run a car will need trains (and buses, lest we forget.) It's simply the case that trains will have to be run on a different basis, and will be more heavily reliant on subsidy.
Yet workers going in 1-2 days per week rather than 5 still means a substantial reduction in numbers (albeit a more comfortable journey for those who are travelling).
The problem is if you pay £3900 for an annual season ticket from Woking to London and you are only going to be travelling 2 days per week, you will buy tickets when you travel and the train company won't get the £3900 sitting in their account earning interest.
That's the economic truth of WFH for train operators so do they reduce services arguing there's no demand or are they supported by Government to continue providing the service even though fewer people are travelling and at what point do they stop operating as a private company and become effectively agents of Government?
Whether a line covers costs or not doesn't really affect the private TOCs. They bid on how much subsidy they need or how much premium they will return to the government. Clearly we're in a world where they're all in subsidy territory. The question is, how much is the government willing to pay for and for how long?
I just think if you’re a sociable person - I’m a software eng but quite sociable which is quite rare believe me - and I’ve found ways to socialise without work.
Online political discussion boards don't count though
Do WoW guilds though ?
Doe WoW still exist? I last played it before I got married, and I've been married for fourteen years now.
I preferred the original base-building strategy Warcraft games before WoW. Played the original, II and III and think a shame with WoW taking off is there's never been a IV as a result.
That style of strategy game used to be quite common and well made, don't get many of them nowadays it seems. Now most strategy games like that seem to be online, build and then wait or pay premium currency to not wait types instead.
Agreed. Dune II, Command & Conquer, Stronghold, Age of Empires, Warcraft II, Total Annihilation.. there were loads of them.
A great list of games there! Hoping that Tiberian Sun and Red Alert 2 get remasters. RA2 has got to be my favourite RTS game of all time. So many wasted hours!
You can get them all now on Origin, if you sign up.
Lol I've probably bought the series 4 or 5 times over the years. Even Generals!
I just think if you’re a sociable person - I’m a software eng but quite sociable which is quite rare believe me - and I’ve found ways to socialise without work.
Online political discussion boards don't count though
Do WoW guilds though ?
Doe WoW still exist? I last played it before I got married, and I've been married for fourteen years now.
I preferred the original base-building strategy Warcraft games before WoW. Played the original, II and III and think a shame with WoW taking off is there's never been a IV as a result.
That style of strategy game used to be quite common and well made, don't get many of them nowadays it seems. Now most strategy games like that seem to be online, build and then wait or pay premium currency to not wait types instead.
Agreed. Dune II, Command & Conquer, Stronghold, Age of Empires, Warcraft II, Total Annihilation.. there were loads of them.
Yes I loved all of those.
I don't know why that genre doesn't sell much anymore, it's a shame.
Because, we're dated dude.
You can get Rusted Warfare on Steam, now, for like £1.99. It's a homage to that era that works on Windows 10 and Android etc. with the same quality RTS gameplay.
It's in 2D so doesn't require much bandwidth to play. Don't let that you put you off, as the gameplay is awesome.
Have you tried Grey Goo by petroglyph? It's a good modern take on the genre.
Decided to visit Canary Wharf this evening to see how quiet things are there atm. While I was there the area was hit by torrential rain which made it impossible to move around on foot. Just what the local bars and restaurants didn't need.
This photo of Starmer in the header is awful. It looks like he wants to be spotty but can't afford the spots.
Couldn't you find a slightly kinder picture Mike?
@Stuartinromford There's a blue plaque that celebrates the inventor of the Smash aliens on Bishop's Bridge Rd. - I suspect it's not official - seems internal to a building (probably an ad agency obviously), but I rather like it.
The whole TrainsAreTheEnvironmentalAnswer may have to be re-thought. Below a certain capacity, electric cars use less energy than the mostly empty train.
Except if you try to shunt everybody into cars then (a) what do you do about the non-drivers and (b) how do you cope with the congestion on the roads?
That's the economic truth of WFH for train operators so do they reduce services arguing there's no demand or are they supported by Government to continue providing the service even though fewer people are travelling and at what point do they stop operating as a private company and become effectively agents of Government?
I reckon that the trains will be formally nationalised - the franchise holders will give them up, or they won't be renewed as they expire.
In a very real sense, with the fact that they now have to be propped up by public funds because most of the passengers are gone, they are already. There was a discussion on this topic the other evening; I believe that, for statistical purposes, the ONS already counts rail as a nationalised industry.
The rail subsidy thing might work out OK; commuter railways are expensive to run because you need infrastructure to run huge peak capacity that's only really busy for a couple of hours a day in each direction.
As with all the other knock-ons from WFH, there's a difficult transition coming up that needs to be managed better than the 1980s were. But in this sort of situation, I find it's useful to imagine how we'd feel about the reverse transition...
So, suppose someone said:
1. We will make workers travel to work in places far from their homes. 2. Businesses will have to spend a fortune on these new working spaces. 3. Workers will have to pay to travel to these working spaces. 4. Workers will travel in cramped metal boxes. 5. They will spend many of their Earth pounds to buy damp bread snacks to eat, and other people will have jobs selling these snacks to them.
It's like one of those Cadbury's Smash adverts, only a whole lot darker.
Oh, I agree - as I said earlier, the arrow of time only travels in one direction. The world of February 2020 is gone for good, and in terms of the winners and losers there'll be more of the former than the latter.
I'm sure they will. I'm sure the same would have been true of pubs and restaurants, but the government decided to give them a helping hand. All I was suggesting was that government might find it beneficial to try the same with city centres by utilising public transport, in essence a two-for-one sort of thing. Trains need the help, city centres need the help, marry the two together.
I agree that slashing fares would probably help to stimulate leisure travel. When it comes to commuting I'm not so sure. It'll cut the expense, but it won't make the experience any more pleasant or any less time-consuming. It would be a welcome form of compensation for those still wishing or required to commute, but I doubt that it would encourage people to travel for work more frequently than they otherwise would've done.
I just think if you’re a sociable person - I’m a software eng but quite sociable which is quite rare believe me - and I’ve found ways to socialise without work.
Online political discussion boards don't count though
Do WoW guilds though ?
Doe WoW still exist? I last played it before I got married, and I've been married for fourteen years now.
I preferred the original base-building strategy Warcraft games before WoW. Played the original, II and III and think a shame with WoW taking off is there's never been a IV as a result.
That style of strategy game used to be quite common and well made, don't get many of them nowadays it seems. Now most strategy games like that seem to be online, build and then wait or pay premium currency to not wait types instead.
Agreed. Dune II, Command & Conquer, Stronghold, Age of Empires, Warcraft II, Total Annihilation.. there were loads of them.
Yes I loved all of those.
I don't know why that genre doesn't sell much anymore, it's a shame.
It is underrepresented but if you look you can find a modern RTS with sizeable followings.
CoH2, DOW, SC2,
Starcraft 2, is definitely the most popular of this era and has the strongest professional scene with players grossing 6 figures at big tournaments. And its now ftp.
Numbers on public transport will recover, given time. WFH is here to stay but, however long the Plague panic goes on for, it won't be forever. Tourism will pick up. Older people will get out more. Many workers will commute part-time rather than continuing to do everything remotely. There'll be more travel generally, and people who can't drive, don't want to drive or can't afford to run a car will need trains (and buses, lest we forget.) It's simply the case that trains will have to be run on a different basis, and will be more heavily reliant on subsidy.
Yet workers going in 1-2 days per week rather than 5 still means a substantial reduction in numbers (albeit a more comfortable journey for those who are travelling).
The problem is if you pay £3900 for an annual season ticket from Woking to London and you are only going to be travelling 2 days per week, you will buy tickets when you travel and the train company won't get the £3900 sitting in their account earning interest.
That's the economic truth of WFH for train operators so do they reduce services arguing there's no demand or are they supported by Government to continue providing the service even though fewer people are travelling and at what point do they stop operating as a private company and become effectively agents of Government?
A couple of observations.
Firstly, the person previously commuting 5 days each week from Woking may move somewhere nicer but further from London when they only commute 2 days each week. From their new home the cost of a return to the smoke will be higher, so the financial hit to the railway is lessened.
Secondly, the TOCs will be able to lease less stock when the peak passenger numbers are reduced. Just running the clockface timetable all day without peak extras is much more efficient use of rolling stock.
Right - I'm heading back to the railway forum to discuss AV!
To be fair I simply responded to the question "How are masks a barrier to working in the office?"
I think we're going to find out how much of a barrier they are at some point during the course of next month. The UK Government will insist that people won't be made to go around their workplaces in masks all day, Nicola Sturgeon will decide that this is essential, and then Boris Johnson will cave 2-3 days later.
This is all very well for the legions of WFH workers who can just lobby their employers to stay in their homes for the duration - and they surely will, in great numbers - but it's going to mean gasping through a damp rag all day misery for those of us who don't have that luxury.
Back when mask creep first started, some people said I was being hysterical when I predicted that it would eventually be illegal to be practically anywhere outside your own home without a mask on. But that's pretty much where they've got to in Paris already. I reckon compulsory masks everywhere indoors by the end of September, and everywhere outdoors by the end of November. The latter is the obvious first panic measure that will come in when coughs and sneezes get going in earnest later in the Autumn. Watch.
I have a colleague recently returned from Turkey. The rules about wearing masks are more stringent than in the UK and the local Police (previously the Army) are zealously enforcing the rules. They are abrupt with the locals but as far as tourists are concerned it's more a polite request and a reminder of the rules.
Masks have to be worn outside the home or hotel.
Yes, for some of us it's been illegal to not wear a mask anywhere outside our own home since the end of March.
Actually, you do get used to it, the most difficult thing is communication difficulty with people with thick 'foreign' accents where you'd normally watch their lips carefully.
I just think if you’re a sociable person - I’m a software eng but quite sociable which is quite rare believe me - and I’ve found ways to socialise without work.
Online political discussion boards don't count though
Do WoW guilds though ?
Doe WoW still exist? I last played it before I got married, and I've been married for fourteen years now.
I preferred the original base-building strategy Warcraft games before WoW. Played the original, II and III and think a shame with WoW taking off is there's never been a IV as a result.
That style of strategy game used to be quite common and well made, don't get many of them nowadays it seems. Now most strategy games like that seem to be online, build and then wait or pay premium currency to not wait types instead.
Agreed. Dune II, Command & Conquer, Stronghold, Age of Empires, Warcraft II, Total Annihilation.. there were loads of them.
Yes I loved all of those.
I don't know why that genre doesn't sell much anymore, it's a shame.
Because, we're dated dude.
You can get Rusted Warfare on Steam, now, for like £1.99. It's a homage to that era that works on Windows 10 and Android etc. with the same quality RTS gameplay.
It's in 2D so doesn't require much bandwidth to play. Don't let that you put you off, as the gameplay is awesome.
Have you tried Grey Goo by petroglyph? It's a good modern take on the genre.
Businesses need to be adapting and realise that commuting might not ever return like it was before - and frankly that could be a good thing.
There's nothing wrong with that other than the fact that a huge portion of "adapting" here really just equates to "massive downsizing".
Maybe in the long run it will be a good thing, but not in the short term.
The other problem is a lot of the public transport is not going to be in much better shape without commuters in the logn run.
The government's best bet is to do an equivalent to "Eat out to help out" for trains etc. to get people going back to city centres. Not even necessarily just to commute for work but for recreation, shopping trips, cinema trips, weekend socialising etc.
Who would go into a city centre for recreation? If I live in the sticks there are pubs near me, restaurants near me. The exception might be the draw of london.
Massive downsizing doesnt matter because their will now be jobs crying out for staff as those commuter town boarded up shops get taken over to launch cafes etc as they now actually have a clientele. Those staff that move outwards will also find their cost of living reduced. Those that demand to live and work in london will merely find they have less choice
The draw of socialising in the city is of course the range and variety of entertainment options, and the fact you are more likely to be able to get there, and subsequently move around, by public transport. I can get to London cheaper than I can get a taxi to most of my local pubs. Also your local pub in the sticks might be crap.
Although in the long run, it may very well encourage services in rural areas and commuter towns that are currently losing them. Having been working from home for a number of months now, and as I live on my own, I find that major weekend social activities aren't a problem, but something local midweek to break up the monotony of the same four walls would be nice. At least when I commuted, I saw somewhere different, got to use different shops, had at east a passing conversation with work colleagues, and, in summer at least, had a nice drive home from one of the offices on country roads.
That is certainly the draw in london and maybe manchester and birmingham too. Outside those 3 most cities are pretty poorly served for entertainement choices and public transport
I just think if you’re a sociable person - I’m a software eng but quite sociable which is quite rare believe me - and I’ve found ways to socialise without work.
Online political discussion boards don't count though
Do WoW guilds though ?
Doe WoW still exist? I last played it before I got married, and I've been married for fourteen years now.
I preferred the original base-building strategy Warcraft games before WoW. Played the original, II and III and think a shame with WoW taking off is there's never been a IV as a result.
That style of strategy game used to be quite common and well made, don't get many of them nowadays it seems. Now most strategy games like that seem to be online, build and then wait or pay premium currency to not wait types instead.
Agreed. Dune II, Command & Conquer, Stronghold, Age of Empires, Warcraft II, Total Annihilation.. there were loads of them.
A great list of games there! Hoping that Tiberian Sun and Red Alert 2 get remasters. RA2 has got to be my favourite RTS game of all time. So many wasted hours!
Tesla coils. The only Tesla worth being interested in.
Comments
Commuter rail (Metro-North and the Long Island RR) would be cut by 50%, with most stations receiving only one train an hour, even at peak, and entire branches would be suspended including the only commuter rail lines serving the counties west of the Hudson River.
Even if my office opened up tomorrow with no restrictions, public transport cuts like that would make it next to impossible to get in for a normal day's work at the office. I'd have no choice but to request permanent WFH or look for a new job from an employer that supports remote working.
First, thanks to Robert for all his work behind the scenes on the site - it is very much appreciated.
Second, congratulations to Sir Ed Davey on winning the Liberal Democrat leadership election - though I didn't vote for him I'm pleased he has won. He takes on the party in as bad a state as Paddy did in early 1988 and the Ashdown years weren't wholly unsuccessful.
He'll need some luck (all politicians do) but I wish him well.
13th SNP MSP to announce retirement (+ Aberdeen Donside and Renfrewshire North and West being also "open")
Phew.
That helps get Keir into No. 10.
I suspect once the children are back in school working at home will get a new lease of life and even more as the weather closes in for the autumn and winter. Why trudge in the rain to the station or sit in a traffic jam when you can get everything done at home?
Now, for some plain speaking - I'm not risking my health to save Pret a Manger. The job losses in those businesses dependent on office workers aren't going to be nice but jobs are lost and created all the time even when things are going well. There are new jobs in home delivery and in a myriad of industries devoted to home working and while I accept that's not for everyone, I cannot accept it is Sunak's responsibility to try to save every business and every job.
It would be a travesty of the spirit of capitalism were he to try so to do. Capitalism is brutal but adversity creates opportunity and businesses which are adept or can adapt will prosper and those which don't go under.
Government should be about recognising the home working revolution and facilitating and empowering the new small businesses set up to support it.
I think we're going to find out how much of a barrier they are at some point during the course of next month. The UK Government will insist that people won't be made to go around their workplaces in masks all day, Nicola Sturgeon will decide that this is essential, and then Boris Johnson will cave 2-3 days later.
This is all very well for the legions of WFH workers who can just lobby their employers to stay in their homes for the duration - and they surely will, in great numbers - but it's going to mean gasping through a damp rag all day misery for those of us who don't have that luxury.
Back when mask creep first started, some people said I was being hysterical when I predicted that it would eventually be illegal to be practically anywhere outside your own home without a mask on. But that's pretty much where they've got to in Paris already. I reckon compulsory masks everywhere indoors by the end of September, and everywhere outdoors by the end of November. The latter is the obvious first panic measure that will come in when coughs and sneezes get going in earnest later in the Autumn. Watch.
This, presumably? First person worth $200bn.
Thanks to @Peter_the_Punter for hos kind word on my analysis last evening.
I remain of the view Biden is doing well in his strongholds and perversely in Trump's strongholds yet not so well in some of the key swing states. The swing in those is 2-3% while elsewhere it's more like 4-6%.
Trump is doing quite well in the key mid-western and southern swing states but he is behind in a lot of them though not so far that could not be reversed between now and November.
The problem for both candidates is the electorate seems highly polarised with only a small number (5-8%) not yet decided. Antipathy to both candidates and enthusiasm for both candidates is widespread.
Biden needs to get the Democrat vote out and hope he can erode the 2016 gap among both White voters and Independents. His strength is in the female vote where he consistently holds big leads while men and especially white men still favour Trump.
Although in the long run, it may very well encourage services in rural areas and commuter towns that are currently losing them. Having been working from home for a number of months now, and as I live on my own, I find that major weekend social activities aren't a problem, but something local midweek to break up the monotony of the same four walls would be nice. At least when I commuted, I saw somewhere different, got to use different shops, had at east a passing conversation with work colleagues, and, in summer at least, had a nice drive home from one of the offices on country roads.
But, laying aside the aspects of devolution and differences in the response to the pandemic by the different governments for a different thread, I don't really see how Scotrail works as a sustainable business model if, minus commuters, only some relatively small fraction of people need to travel to Glasgow or Edinburgh now.
I rather think the murmurings about going back to the office, from the government, are a palliative for those angry at what is heading their way.
It is not going to be just a few hundreds of big commercial landlords - it will be many hundred of thousands of people losing their jobs.
New jobs may well be created in other locations. The spend may just move to the high streets in the urban areas...
But the fact that it will be very unpleasant for many people should not be ignored.
I don't know why that genre doesn't sell much anymore, it's a shame.
One place where there may still exist socially distanced brothels.
http://www.yesbutnobutyes.com/archives/2006/08/the_best_little.html
Masks have to be worn outside the home or hotel.
Very expensive, tedious and repetitive sandwiches - they hadn't changed their range for years, except to predictably roll out the same "novelty" range each Christmas - and had a ubiquitous presence that crowded everyone else out.
They went out of their way to avoid employing Britons, emotionally manipulated the staff they did hire, had a poor history of labelling ingredients, and - to cap it all - all the profits accrued to an overseas private equity firm.
Cry me a river.
You can get Rusted Warfare on Steam, now, for like £1.99. It's a homage to that era that works on Windows 10 and Android etc. with the same quality RTS gameplay.
It's in 2D so doesn't require much bandwidth to play. Don't let that you put you off, as the gameplay is awesome.
As with all the other knock-ons from WFH, there's a difficult transition coming up that needs to be managed better than the 1980s were. But in this sort of situation, I find it's useful to imagine how we'd feel about the reverse transition...
So, suppose someone said:
1. We will make workers travel to work in places far from their homes.
2. Businesses will have to spend a fortune on these new working spaces.
3. Workers will have to pay to travel to these working spaces.
4. Workers will travel in cramped metal boxes.
5. They will spend many of their Earth pounds to buy damp bread snacks to eat, and other people will have jobs selling these snacks to them.
It's like one of those Cadbury's Smash adverts, only a whole lot darker.
https://youtu.be/TLYNoejZcv0
The problem is if you pay £3900 for an annual season ticket from Woking to London and you are only going to be travelling 2 days per week, you will buy tickets when you travel and the train company won't get the £3900 sitting in their account earning interest.
That's the economic truth of WFH for train operators so do they reduce services arguing there's no demand or are they supported by Government to continue providing the service even though fewer people are travelling and at what point do they stop operating as a private company and become effectively agents of Government?
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/08/27/world/global-coronavirus-attitudes-pew-intl/index.html
Decided to visit Canary Wharf this evening to see how quiet things are there atm. While I was there the area was hit by torrential rain which made it impossible to move around on foot. Just what the local bars and restaurants didn't need.
I wonder if I can get it to run on my Samsung Galaxy Chromebook.
Couldn't you find a slightly kinder picture Mike?
@Stuartinromford
There's a blue plaque that celebrates the inventor of the Smash aliens on Bishop's Bridge Rd. - I suspect it's not official - seems internal to a building (probably an ad agency obviously), but I rather like it.
In a very real sense, with the fact that they now have to be propped up by public funds because most of the passengers are gone, they are already. There was a discussion on this topic the other evening; I believe that, for statistical purposes, the ONS already counts rail as a nationalised industry. Oh, I agree - as I said earlier, the arrow of time only travels in one direction. The world of February 2020 is gone for good, and in terms of the winners and losers there'll be more of the former than the latter. I agree that slashing fares would probably help to stimulate leisure travel. When it comes to commuting I'm not so sure. It'll cut the expense, but it won't make the experience any more pleasant or any less time-consuming. It would be a welcome form of compensation for those still wishing or required to commute, but I doubt that it would encourage people to travel for work more frequently than they otherwise would've done.
CoH2, DOW, SC2,
Starcraft 2, is definitely the most popular of this era and has the strongest professional scene with players grossing 6 figures at big tournaments. And its now ftp.
Proof of my world class houseplant neglect skills.
https://twitter.com/mattwardman/status/1299071983729160192
What the hell would you call a spaceship if you had one? Horse and Cart Mk VII?
Future archaeologists are stuffed.
Firstly, the person previously commuting 5 days each week from Woking may move somewhere nicer but further from London when they only commute 2 days each week. From their new home the cost of a return to the smoke will be higher, so the financial hit to the railway is lessened.
Secondly, the TOCs will be able to lease less stock when the peak passenger numbers are reduced. Just running the clockface timetable all day without peak extras is much more efficient use of rolling stock.
Right - I'm heading back to the railway forum to discuss AV!
Actually, you do get used to it, the most difficult thing is communication difficulty with people with thick 'foreign' accents where you'd normally watch their lips carefully.
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