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  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    People who are less likely to be working want those younger than them to go back to the office, presumably they think WFH is lounging about and "it was much harder in my day"

    Boll8cks

    Its more likely that older people are anxious for the young to be able to get out and live their lives, seeing that Corona hardly affect them at all.

    That's certainly my view.

    You don't need to be at the office every day to have a life, we can still go the pub, etc
    Young people have always been attracted to big, fast, lively, sociable, cities. Places they can meet each other, socialise, make friends and develop relationships. Right now they cannot do the stuff I took for granted in my 20s.

    They should be able to. Everybody knows that granny needs to be avoided.
    I don't think anyone is stopping them any more. The point is that younger workers are (on average) much happier with the current arrangements. The only age group where there's majority support for encouraging a return to the office is those who are of retirement age.

    Now there are lots of ways of reading that, starting with a kind of false consciousness amongst the young. But it's quite possible that they prefer not commuting for work because that leaves more time for fun.
    I know that isn;t true, because my single 20 something daughter lives at home and is very definitely not happy with the current arrangements!
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868

    People who are less likely to be working want those younger than them to go back to the office, presumably they think WFH is lounging about and "it was much harder in my day"

    Boll8cks

    Its more likely that older people are anxious for the young to be able to get out and live their lives, seeing that Corona hardly affect them at all.

    That's certainly my view.

    You don't need to be at the office every day to have a life, we can still go the pub, etc
    Young people have always been attracted to big, fast, lively, sociable, cities. Places they can meet each other, socialise, make friends and develop relationships. Right now they cannot do the stuff I took for granted in my 20s.

    They should be able to. Everybody knows that granny needs to be avoided.
    They we/can't do a lot of that anyway, since clubs and things are closed.

    Best thing we have is the pub, WFH doesn't change that, I was at the pub last weekend!
    Yes, I seriously can't wait until the bars and clubs are properly open again. Was quite sad last night having to go home at eleven because there was nowhere else to continue the night.
  • People who are less likely to be working want those younger than them to go back to the office, presumably they think WFH is lounging about and "it was much harder in my day"

    Boll8cks

    Its more likely that older people are anxious for the young to be able to get out and live their lives, seeing that Corona hardly affect them at all.

    That's certainly my view.

    You don't need to be at the office every day to have a life, we can still go the pub, etc
    Young people have always been attracted to big, fast, lively, sociable, cities. Places they can meet each other, socialise, make friends and develop relationships. Right now they cannot do the stuff I took for granted in my 20s.

    They should be able to. Everybody knows that granny needs to be avoided.
    I don't think anyone is stopping them any more. The point is that younger workers are (on average) much happier with the current arrangements. The only age group where there's majority support for encouraging a return to the office is those who are of retirement age.

    Now there are lots of ways of reading that, starting with a kind of false consciousness amongst the young. But it's quite possible that they prefer not commuting for work because that leaves more time for fun.
    I know that isn;t true, because my single 20 something daughter lives at home and is very definitely not happy with the current arrangements!
    I would be interested to see how it breaks down for people below 30, most people I've spoken to are quite happy WFH
  • People who are less likely to be working want those younger than them to go back to the office, presumably they think WFH is lounging about and "it was much harder in my day"

    Boll8cks

    Its more likely that older people are anxious for the young to be able to get out and live their lives, seeing that Corona hardly affect them at all.

    That's certainly my view.

    You don't need to be at the office every day to have a life, we can still go the pub, etc
    Young people have always been attracted to big, fast, lively, sociable, cities. Places they can meet each other, socialise, make friends and develop relationships. Right now they cannot do the stuff I took for granted in my 20s.

    They should be able to. Everybody knows that granny needs to be avoided.
    I don't think anyone is stopping them any more. The point is that younger workers are (on average) much happier with the current arrangements. The only age group where there's majority support for encouraging a return to the office is those who are of retirement age.

    Now there are lots of ways of reading that, starting with a kind of false consciousness amongst the young. But it's quite possible that they prefer not commuting for work because that leaves more time for fun.
    I know that isn;t true, because my single 20 something daughter lives at home and is very definitely not happy with the current arrangements!
    Well if one anecdote isn't happy then that proves that is a majority opinion then isn't it?
  • MaxPB said:

    People who are less likely to be working want those younger than them to go back to the office, presumably they think WFH is lounging about and "it was much harder in my day"

    Boll8cks

    Its more likely that older people are anxious for the young to be able to get out and live their lives, seeing that Corona hardly affect them at all.

    That's certainly my view.

    You don't need to be at the office every day to have a life, we can still go the pub, etc
    Young people have always been attracted to big, fast, lively, sociable, cities. Places they can meet each other, socialise, make friends and develop relationships. Right now they cannot do the stuff I took for granted in my 20s.

    They should be able to. Everybody knows that granny needs to be avoided.
    They we/can't do a lot of that anyway, since clubs and things are closed.

    Best thing we have is the pub, WFH doesn't change that, I was at the pub last weekend!
    Yes, I seriously can't wait until the bars and clubs are properly open again. Was quite sad last night having to go home at eleven because there was nowhere else to continue the night.
    I'd still be happy to WFH when/if they re-open, I think we will be doing most days from home until next year.

    I think 30 or so out of a couple of hundred have gone back, no rush for anyone else
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676

    Then they came for the hymns and the Bible, and Sky Bet League Two did nothing.

    https://twitter.com/jimwaterson/status/1299006655947067397?s=20

    No wonder Bury when bust.
    Cant even get in National League North
  • People who are less likely to be working want those younger than them to go back to the office, presumably they think WFH is lounging about and "it was much harder in my day"

    Boll8cks

    Its more likely that older people are anxious for the young to be able to get out and live their lives, seeing that Corona hardly affect them at all.

    That's certainly my view.

    You don't need to be at the office every day to have a life, we can still go the pub, etc
    Young people have always been attracted to big, fast, lively, sociable, cities. Places they can meet each other, socialise, make friends and develop relationships. Right now they cannot do the stuff I took for granted in my 20s.

    They should be able to. Everybody knows that granny needs to be avoided.
    I don't think anyone is stopping them any more. The point is that younger workers are (on average) much happier with the current arrangements. The only age group where there's majority support for encouraging a return to the office is those who are of retirement age.

    Now there are lots of ways of reading that, starting with a kind of false consciousness amongst the young. But it's quite possible that they prefer not commuting for work because that leaves more time for fun.
    I know that isn;t true, because my single 20 something daughter lives at home and is very definitely not happy with the current arrangements!
    That's quite possible for individuals. Doesn't tell us much about the population as a whole though.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    People who are less likely to be working want those younger than them to go back to the office, presumably they think WFH is lounging about and "it was much harder in my day"

    Boll8cks

    Its more likely that older people are anxious for the young to be able to get out and live their lives, seeing that Corona hardly affect them at all.

    That's certainly my view.

    You don't need to be at the office every day to have a life, we can still go the pub, etc
    Young people have always been attracted to big, fast, lively, sociable, cities. Places they can meet each other, socialise, make friends and develop relationships. Right now they cannot do the stuff I took for granted in my 20s.

    They should be able to. Everybody knows that granny needs to be avoided.
    I don't think anyone is stopping them any more. The point is that younger workers are (on average) much happier with the current arrangements. The only age group where there's majority support for encouraging a return to the office is those who are of retirement age.

    Now there are lots of ways of reading that, starting with a kind of false consciousness amongst the young. But it's quite possible that they prefer not commuting for work because that leaves more time for fun.
    I know that isn;t true, because my single 20 something daughter lives at home and is very definitely not happy with the current arrangements!
    I would be interested to see how it breaks down for people below 30, most people I've spoken to are quite happy WFH
    One of the 20 something girls who works for us texted me today

    'might do some online shopping for clothes I don't need for places I can't go.'

  • People who are less likely to be working want those younger than them to go back to the office, presumably they think WFH is lounging about and "it was much harder in my day"

    Boll8cks

    Its more likely that older people are anxious for the young to be able to get out and live their lives, seeing that Corona hardly affect them at all.

    That's certainly my view.

    You don't need to be at the office every day to have a life, we can still go the pub, etc
    Young people have always been attracted to big, fast, lively, sociable, cities. Places they can meet each other, socialise, make friends and develop relationships. Right now they cannot do the stuff I took for granted in my 20s.

    They should be able to. Everybody knows that granny needs to be avoided.
    I don't think anyone is stopping them any more. The point is that younger workers are (on average) much happier with the current arrangements. The only age group where there's majority support for encouraging a return to the office is those who are of retirement age.

    Now there are lots of ways of reading that, starting with a kind of false consciousness amongst the young. But it's quite possible that they prefer not commuting for work because that leaves more time for fun.
    I know that isn;t true, because my single 20 something daughter lives at home and is very definitely not happy with the current arrangements!
    I would be interested to see how it breaks down for people below 30, most people I've spoken to are quite happy WFH
    One of the 20 something girls who works for us texted me today

    'might do some online shopping for clothes I don't need for places I can't go.'

    Haunting.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,555
    IshmaelZ said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    I'd draw the line below Liverpool/Manchester/Sheffield and above Nottingham.
    Completely wrong. The line is the M4.
    https://twitter.com/AlastairMeeks/status/1299001940387348484
    I expect this is a minority view, but the North actually starts in Guildford. The dividing line is marked precisely by two high streets that run in parallel. One is clearly in the north, the other in the south. The good stuff is certainly to be found south of Guildford.
    Good grief you have just put me in the North of England by a few hundred metres. Who would have thought it.
    Where do I buy a flat cap?
    Top tip: steer clear of Ilkley Moor till you find out.

    'Appen.
    The North starts when you turn off the M9 at Stirling and head for Glencoe.

  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    People who are less likely to be working want those younger than them to go back to the office, presumably they think WFH is lounging about and "it was much harder in my day"

    Boll8cks

    Its more likely that older people are anxious for the young to be able to get out and live their lives, seeing that Corona hardly affect them at all.

    That's certainly my view.

    You don't need to be at the office every day to have a life, we can still go the pub, etc
    Young people have always been attracted to big, fast, lively, sociable, cities. Places they can meet each other, socialise, make friends and develop relationships. Right now they cannot do the stuff I took for granted in my 20s.

    They should be able to. Everybody knows that granny needs to be avoided.
    I don't think anyone is stopping them any more. The point is that younger workers are (on average) much happier with the current arrangements. The only age group where there's majority support for encouraging a return to the office is those who are of retirement age.

    Now there are lots of ways of reading that, starting with a kind of false consciousness amongst the young. But it's quite possible that they prefer not commuting for work because that leaves more time for fun.
    I know that isn;t true, because my single 20 something daughter lives at home and is very definitely not happy with the current arrangements!
    Well if one anecdote isn't happy then that proves that is a majority opinion then isn't it?
    FFS it was said partly in jest.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    No, this is one topic on which the stickbangers won't get their way. If employers and employees both decide that they can do without offices - or, at any rate, they only need to use them a couple of days a week - then tedious daily commuting rituals will cease.
    Absolutely agree, let us hope the Government does U-turn on their briefing
    The point is, it really doesn't matter what the Government says about this topic. If businesses and their workers would both rather not bother with full-time commuting then the Government can do nothing about it - or, at any rate, not anything practical. I don't see them calling out the police and the army to frogmarch office workers to railway stations at gunpoint, or incentivizing commuting by paying people to get on trains.
    Here's an idea.

    The train companies could incentivize commuters by providing a transport service that wasn't sh!te
    Based on my admittedly limited experience of the trains, as a leisure traveller lacking a car, they do seem to have improved considerably since most people stopped using them.

    Public transport is definitely nicer minus the public.
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    After the Union of Crowns in 1603, there were various attempts to use the term "North Britain" for "Scotland" and "South Britain" for England, with one of the earliest being the royal proclamation establishing the Union Flag in 1606. The latter never much caught on but the former was sometimes used off and on in the 17th to 19th centuries, hence the North British Railway. "West Britain" was sometimes used to refer to Ireland, hence the modern Irish nationalist pejorative of "West Brit" to those felt to advocate too-friendly a relationship with the UK.
  • guybrushguybrush Posts: 257
    edited August 2020
    I'd be interested in seeing if anyone has any polling data on this, rather than anecdote/opinion.

    For what it's worth, I'd still (just) classify myself as younger (early 30's), and have had enough of wfh. Missing the camaraderie and real-world interaction of the office. And I'd hardly classify myself as an extrovert. But my employer isn't looking to re-open offices until sometime next year.

    Maybe I'm atypical. Or this is specific to the type of work I do, where creativity and collaboration counts for a lot. Zoom/Teams/phone doesn't really cut it to me, a bit transactional in nature and relies a lot on the relationships/understanding built up in real-life. I can see myself doing 1-2 days a week from home once this is over, but I'm not mega keen on giving over my own living space for wfh duties, quite like the compartmentalisation an office provides.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    People who are less likely to be working want those younger than them to go back to the office, presumably they think WFH is lounging about and "it was much harder in my day"

    Boll8cks

    Its more likely that older people are anxious for the young to be able to get out and live their lives, seeing that Corona hardly affect them at all.

    That's certainly my view.

    You don't need to be at the office every day to have a life, we can still go the pub, etc
    Young people have always been attracted to big, fast, lively, sociable, cities. Places they can meet each other, socialise, make friends and develop relationships. Right now they cannot do the stuff I took for granted in my 20s.

    They should be able to. Everybody knows that granny needs to be avoided.
    I don't think anyone is stopping them any more. The point is that younger workers are (on average) much happier with the current arrangements. The only age group where there's majority support for encouraging a return to the office is those who are of retirement age.

    Now there are lots of ways of reading that, starting with a kind of false consciousness amongst the young. But it's quite possible that they prefer not commuting for work because that leaves more time for fun.
    I know that isn;t true, because my single 20 something daughter lives at home and is very definitely not happy with the current arrangements!
    I would be interested to see how it breaks down for people below 30, most people I've spoken to are quite happy WFH
    One of the 20 something girls who works for us texted me today

    'might do some online shopping for clothes I don't need for places I can't go.'

    Well she could get together with your daughter and go for a meal
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    Today’s virus stats continue to illustrate the capricious nonsense that is the government’s quarantine decision making. Portugal, just removed from quarantine, 399 extra cases. Austria, added to quarantine on the same day Portugal was removed, 328 extra cases. Switzerland, to be added tomorrow morning, 361.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205

    This may surprise you but a great many murderers, even fanatical murderers, kill people when they perceive the opportunity is right to do so and don't simply go out premeditated shooting like its a game of Grand Theft Auto.

    When the Bernie Sanders supporter James Hodgkinson tried to assassinate Republican congressmen, he opened fire immediately after finding out his targets were Republican and kept shooting until the police killed him. This kid sees a mob of BLM activists coming towards him and runs away, shoots only when he's cornered or on the ground, and then surrenders to police. Not everybody who does bad things has to be a fascist, fanatical white supremacist: this is real life, not Twitter.

    I'm sure if a Black Lives Matter protestor had shot dead multiple people you'd be on here sympathising that maye they had just bitten off more than they could chew too. Or maybe not.

    For some reason, it only seems to be white people killing black people that gets much of an airing on here. Try posting about the killing of David Dorn while exaggerating for effect or flat-out getting the facts wrong, and if I notice it I'll step in.
    rcs1000 said:

    If you're a black teen hanging around outside a dealership with an automatic weapon, you probably get shot by police before you even get a chance to run away.

    And yet when this black militia marched with automatic weapons, the only shootings were blue-on-blue.
    If someone had tried to assault them, they'd have been able to shoot said person in self defense. US gun laws & culture are at the root of all these problems.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,999
    Still waiting excitedly for my first PBer saying there's something in this 5G business, narrowed it down to a pretty spicy shortlist.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226

    kinabalu said:

    Then they came for the hymns and the Bible, and Sky Bet League Two did nothing.

    https://twitter.com/jimwaterson/status/1299006655947067397?s=20

    No wonder Bury when bust.
    Weren't they the "White Lives Matter" on a light aircraft club?

    Or was that Burnley?
    The perpetrators of that totally disowned by the club and banned for life.
    Yes the club acted responsibly. One hopes that Bury or any other would have too.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    nichomar said:

    No, this is one topic on which the stickbangers won't get their way. If employers and employees both decide that they can do without offices - or, at any rate, they only need to use them a couple of days a week - then tedious daily commuting rituals will cease.
    But what do all the Tory donor landlords and developers do if we don’t need offices? Get the kids back to school quick before this WFH becomes the norm.
    The children need to go back to school for their own sakes, and because a large proportion of the parents want them to. I don't buy the conspiracy theory in this instance.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    nichomar said:

    People who are less likely to be working want those younger than them to go back to the office, presumably they think WFH is lounging about and "it was much harder in my day"

    Boll8cks

    Its more likely that older people are anxious for the young to be able to get out and live their lives, seeing that Corona hardly affect them at all.

    That's certainly my view.

    You don't need to be at the office every day to have a life, we can still go the pub, etc
    Young people have always been attracted to big, fast, lively, sociable, cities. Places they can meet each other, socialise, make friends and develop relationships. Right now they cannot do the stuff I took for granted in my 20s.

    They should be able to. Everybody knows that granny needs to be avoided.
    I don't think anyone is stopping them any more. The point is that younger workers are (on average) much happier with the current arrangements. The only age group where there's majority support for encouraging a return to the office is those who are of retirement age.

    Now there are lots of ways of reading that, starting with a kind of false consciousness amongst the young. But it's quite possible that they prefer not commuting for work because that leaves more time for fun.
    I know that isn;t true, because my single 20 something daughter lives at home and is very definitely not happy with the current arrangements!
    I would be interested to see how it breaks down for people below 30, most people I've spoken to are quite happy WFH
    One of the 20 something girls who works for us texted me today

    'might do some online shopping for clothes I don't need for places I can't go.'

    Well she could get together with your daughter and go for a meal
    Look, I know this stuff is anecdotal, and I know its not really an argument, my only point is that there are examples of young people being very frustrated by lockdown. There may be very, very, many young people who are happy with the situation, which I fully accept

    I know not to ever use anecdote again. Consider me warned and chastened.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,805

    Still waiting excitedly for my first PBer saying there's something in this 5G business, narrowed it down to a pretty spicy shortlist.
    You know I think there might be something in this 5G business.
  • I just think if you’re a sociable person - I’m a software eng but quite sociable which is quite rare believe me - and I’ve found ways to socialise without work.

    For the money I’m saving, it is well worth it.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,370
    Pulpstar said:

    This may surprise you but a great many murderers, even fanatical murderers, kill people when they perceive the opportunity is right to do so and don't simply go out premeditated shooting like its a game of Grand Theft Auto.

    When the Bernie Sanders supporter James Hodgkinson tried to assassinate Republican congressmen, he opened fire immediately after finding out his targets were Republican and kept shooting until the police killed him. This kid sees a mob of BLM activists coming towards him and runs away, shoots only when he's cornered or on the ground, and then surrenders to police. Not everybody who does bad things has to be a fascist, fanatical white supremacist: this is real life, not Twitter.

    I'm sure if a Black Lives Matter protestor had shot dead multiple people you'd be on here sympathising that maye they had just bitten off more than they could chew too. Or maybe not.

    For some reason, it only seems to be white people killing black people that gets much of an airing on here. Try posting about the killing of David Dorn while exaggerating for effect or flat-out getting the facts wrong, and if I notice it I'll step in.
    rcs1000 said:

    If you're a black teen hanging around outside a dealership with an automatic weapon, you probably get shot by police before you even get a chance to run away.

    And yet when this black militia marched with automatic weapons, the only shootings were blue-on-blue.
    If someone had tried to assault them, they'd have been able to shoot said person in self defense. US gun laws & culture are at the root of all these problems.
    It is a US *cultural* problem.

    Switzerland hands out military firearms on a compulsory basis. In Israel, teenagers wandering around with military weapons is utterly normal. Yet neither country has anything like the epidemic of gun violence that the US has.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226

    People who are less likely to be working want those younger than them to go back to the office, presumably they think WFH is lounging about and "it was much harder in my day"

    Boll8cks

    Its more likely that older people are anxious for the young to be able to get out and live their lives, seeing that Corona hardly affect them at all.

    That's certainly my view.

    You don't need to be at the office every day to have a life, we can still go the pub, etc
    You can work from the pub even. WFP.
  • guybrushguybrush Posts: 257

    nichomar said:

    No, this is one topic on which the stickbangers won't get their way. If employers and employees both decide that they can do without offices - or, at any rate, they only need to use them a couple of days a week - then tedious daily commuting rituals will cease.
    But what do all the Tory donor landlords and developers do if we don’t need offices? Get the kids back to school quick before this WFH becomes the norm.
    The children need to go back to school for their own sakes, and because a large proportion of the parents want them to. I don't buy the conspiracy theory in this instance.
    There's an argument to be made that schools are just a convenient place to put kids while adults go out to work. But until someone comes up with a better way of teaching the youth to read, write, etc (and pdq), I'd suggest that getting schools re-opened might be a good idea. Especially considering the very minimal risk to children's health.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,707
    kinabalu said:

    People who are less likely to be working want those younger than them to go back to the office, presumably they think WFH is lounging about and "it was much harder in my day"

    Boll8cks

    Its more likely that older people are anxious for the young to be able to get out and live their lives, seeing that Corona hardly affect them at all.

    That's certainly my view.

    You don't need to be at the office every day to have a life, we can still go the pub, etc
    You can work from the pub even. WFP.
    Or you can pub from home. PFH.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,999
    kjh said:

    Still waiting excitedly for my first PBer saying there's something in this 5G business, narrowed it down to a pretty spicy shortlist.
    You know I think there might be something in this 5G business.
    Shit, my shortlist was shit!
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226

    People who are less likely to be working want those younger than them to go back to the office, presumably they think WFH is lounging about and "it was much harder in my day"

    Boll8cks

    Its more likely that older people are anxious for the young to be able to get out and live their lives, seeing that Corona hardly affect them at all.

    That's certainly my view.

    You don't need to be at the office every day to have a life, we can still go the pub, etc
    Young people have always been attracted to big, fast, lively, sociable, cities. Places they can meet each other, socialise, make friends and develop relationships. Right now they cannot do the stuff I took for granted in my 20s.

    They should be able to. Everybody knows that granny needs to be avoided.
    I don't think anyone is stopping them any more. The point is that younger workers are (on average) much happier with the current arrangements. The only age group where there's majority support for encouraging a return to the office is those who are of retirement age.

    Now there are lots of ways of reading that, starting with a kind of false consciousness amongst the young. But it's quite possible that they prefer not commuting for work because that leaves more time for fun.
    I know that isn;t true, because my single 20 something daughter lives at home and is very definitely not happy with the current arrangements!
    I would be interested to see how it breaks down for people below 30, most people I've spoken to are quite happy WFH
    Less likely if they live with their parents though probably.
  • guybrushguybrush Posts: 257

    I just think if you’re a sociable person - I’m a software eng but quite sociable which is quite rare believe me - and I’ve found ways to socialise without work.

    Online political discussion boards don't count though ;)
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    kinabalu said:

    People who are less likely to be working want those younger than them to go back to the office, presumably they think WFH is lounging about and "it was much harder in my day"

    Boll8cks

    Its more likely that older people are anxious for the young to be able to get out and live their lives, seeing that Corona hardly affect them at all.

    That's certainly my view.

    You don't need to be at the office every day to have a life, we can still go the pub, etc
    Young people have always been attracted to big, fast, lively, sociable, cities. Places they can meet each other, socialise, make friends and develop relationships. Right now they cannot do the stuff I took for granted in my 20s.

    They should be able to. Everybody knows that granny needs to be avoided.
    I don't think anyone is stopping them any more. The point is that younger workers are (on average) much happier with the current arrangements. The only age group where there's majority support for encouraging a return to the office is those who are of retirement age.

    Now there are lots of ways of reading that, starting with a kind of false consciousness amongst the young. But it's quite possible that they prefer not commuting for work because that leaves more time for fun.
    I know that isn;t true, because my single 20 something daughter lives at home and is very definitely not happy with the current arrangements!
    I would be interested to see how it breaks down for people below 30, most people I've spoken to are quite happy WFH
    Less likely if they live with their parents though probably.
    I live with my parents - wfh is fine (most of the time).
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,239

    kjh said:

    Still waiting excitedly for my first PBer saying there's something in this 5G business, narrowed it down to a pretty spicy shortlist.
    You know I think there might be something in this 5G business.
    Shit, my shortlist was shit!
    Probably because 5G fried your brain?
  • I just think if you’re a sociable person - I’m a software eng but quite sociable which is quite rare believe me - and I’ve found ways to socialise without work.

    For the money I’m saving, it is well worth it.

    And, once all this is over, people having quality time to develop social networks beyond their workplace feels like the kind of thing that's good for communities. Workplaces- especially if it's lots of people with similar skills doing similar things- can be echo chambers. Places where people live might turn out to be more mixed.
  • kinabalu said:

    People who are less likely to be working want those younger than them to go back to the office, presumably they think WFH is lounging about and "it was much harder in my day"

    Boll8cks

    Its more likely that older people are anxious for the young to be able to get out and live their lives, seeing that Corona hardly affect them at all.

    That's certainly my view.

    You don't need to be at the office every day to have a life, we can still go the pub, etc
    Young people have always been attracted to big, fast, lively, sociable, cities. Places they can meet each other, socialise, make friends and develop relationships. Right now they cannot do the stuff I took for granted in my 20s.

    They should be able to. Everybody knows that granny needs to be avoided.
    I don't think anyone is stopping them any more. The point is that younger workers are (on average) much happier with the current arrangements. The only age group where there's majority support for encouraging a return to the office is those who are of retirement age.

    Now there are lots of ways of reading that, starting with a kind of false consciousness amongst the young. But it's quite possible that they prefer not commuting for work because that leaves more time for fun.
    I know that isn;t true, because my single 20 something daughter lives at home and is very definitely not happy with the current arrangements!
    I would be interested to see how it breaks down for people below 30, most people I've spoken to are quite happy WFH
    Less likely if they live with their parents though probably.
    WFH with children is probably harder than with parents.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    IanB2 said:

    Today’s virus stats continue to illustrate the capricious nonsense that is the government’s quarantine decision making. Portugal, just removed from quarantine, 399 extra cases. Austria, added to quarantine on the same day Portugal was removed, 328 extra cases. Switzerland, to be added tomorrow morning, 361.

    If only the populations of all those countries were identical...
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    kinabalu said:

    People who are less likely to be working want those younger than them to go back to the office, presumably they think WFH is lounging about and "it was much harder in my day"

    Boll8cks

    Its more likely that older people are anxious for the young to be able to get out and live their lives, seeing that Corona hardly affect them at all.

    That's certainly my view.

    You don't need to be at the office every day to have a life, we can still go the pub, etc
    You can work from the pub even. WFP.
    I've agreed with my university friends that we'll do "virtual lectures" from the pub. Should be much better.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    edited August 2020
    MaxPB said:

    IanB2 said:

    Today’s virus stats continue to illustrate the capricious nonsense that is the government’s quarantine decision making. Portugal, just removed from quarantine, 399 extra cases. Austria, added to quarantine on the same day Portugal was removed, 328 extra cases. Switzerland, to be added tomorrow morning, 361.

    If only the populations of all those countries were identical...
    They are not so different as makes much difference.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    I just think if you’re a sociable person - I’m a software eng but quite sociable which is quite rare believe me - and I’ve found ways to socialise without work.

    For the money I’m saving, it is well worth it.

    You’ll be voting Tory after you save enough for your deposit and get a mortgage😀
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468

    Still waiting excitedly for my first PBer saying there's something in this 5G business, narrowed it down to a pretty spicy shortlist.
    If it includes SeanT, that spicy list could be quite long ...
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,608

    People who are less likely to be working want those younger than them to go back to the office, presumably they think WFH is lounging about and "it was much harder in my day"

    Boll8cks

    Its more likely that older people are anxious for the young to be able to get out and live their lives, seeing that Corona hardly affect them at all.

    That's certainly my view.

    You don't need to be at the office every day to have a life, we can still go the pub, etc
    Young people have always been attracted to big, fast, lively, sociable, cities. Places they can meet each other, socialise, make friends and develop relationships. Right now they cannot do the stuff I took for granted in my 20s.

    They should be able to. Everybody knows that granny needs to be avoided.
    I don't think anyone is stopping them any more. The point is that younger workers are (on average) much happier with the current arrangements. The only age group where there's majority support for encouraging a return to the office is those who are of retirement age.

    Now there are lots of ways of reading that, starting with a kind of false consciousness amongst the young. But it's quite possible that they prefer not commuting for work because that leaves more time for fun.
    I know that isn;t true, because my single 20 something daughter lives at home and is very definitely not happy with the current arrangements!
    I would be interested to see how it breaks down for people below 30, most people I've spoken to are quite happy WFH
    One of the 20 something girls who works for us texted me today

    'might do some online shopping for clothes I don't need for places I can't go.'

    Try suggesting she doesn't buy this summer's fashions.....
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    kinabalu said:

    People who are less likely to be working want those younger than them to go back to the office, presumably they think WFH is lounging about and "it was much harder in my day"

    Boll8cks

    Its more likely that older people are anxious for the young to be able to get out and live their lives, seeing that Corona hardly affect them at all.

    That's certainly my view.

    You don't need to be at the office every day to have a life, we can still go the pub, etc
    You can work from the pub even. WFP.
    My daughter is planning to do her next semester of med school (George Washington in DC) from a horse facility in Florida.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205
    guybrush said:

    I just think if you’re a sociable person - I’m a software eng but quite sociable which is quite rare believe me - and I’ve found ways to socialise without work.

    Online political discussion boards don't count though ;)
    Do WoW guilds though ?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935
    IanB2 said:

    MaxPB said:

    IanB2 said:

    Today’s virus stats continue to illustrate the capricious nonsense that is the government’s quarantine decision making. Portugal, just removed from quarantine, 399 extra cases. Austria, added to quarantine on the same day Portugal was removed, 328 extra cases. Switzerland, to be added tomorrow morning, 361.

    If only the populations of all those countries were identical...
    They are not so different as makes much difference.
    I think the threshold is average number of cases per capita over seven days. The threshold had to be somewhere. Quite why you are so worked up about this particular set of countries is beyond me.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,149
    edited August 2020

    Still waiting excitedly for my first PBer saying there's something in this 5G business, narrowed it down to a pretty spicy shortlist.
    There might be something in this 5G business.

    I know someone will have gotten there first, but I wouldnt want to be left out.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,217
    MaxPB said:

    IanB2 said:

    Today’s virus stats continue to illustrate the capricious nonsense that is the government’s quarantine decision making. Portugal, just removed from quarantine, 399 extra cases. Austria, added to quarantine on the same day Portugal was removed, 328 extra cases. Switzerland, to be added tomorrow morning, 361.

    If only the populations of all those countries were identical...
    They are very similarly sized, no?

  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    Pulpstar said:

    guybrush said:

    I just think if you’re a sociable person - I’m a software eng but quite sociable which is quite rare believe me - and I’ve found ways to socialise without work.

    Online political discussion boards don't count though ;)
    Do WoW guilds though ?
    LOL, for me it's FoE
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    kjh said:

    Still waiting excitedly for my first PBer saying there's something in this 5G business, narrowed it down to a pretty spicy shortlist.
    You know I think there might be something in this 5G business.
    Shit, my shortlist was shit!
    Probably because 5G fried your brain?
    No, the PB signal gets garbled by his Faraday cage.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,608
    nichomar said:

    No, this is one topic on which the stickbangers won't get their way. If employers and employees both decide that they can do without offices - or, at any rate, they only need to use them a couple of days a week - then tedious daily commuting rituals will cease.
    But what do all the Tory donor landlords and developers do if we don’t need offices? Get the kids back to school quick before this WFH becomes the norm.
    Change difficult to shift retail space to much easier to sell housing.

    Sorted. Happy donors.....
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,217
    Pulpstar said:

    guybrush said:

    I just think if you’re a sociable person - I’m a software eng but quite sociable which is quite rare believe me - and I’ve found ways to socialise without work.

    Online political discussion boards don't count though ;)
    Do WoW guilds though ?
    Doe WoW still exist? I last played it before I got married, and I've been married for fourteen years now.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,999

    kjh said:

    Still waiting excitedly for my first PBer saying there's something in this 5G business, narrowed it down to a pretty spicy shortlist.
    You know I think there might be something in this 5G business.
    Shit, my shortlist was shit!
    Probably because 5G fried your brain?
    Not sure where the closest 5G mast is in my bit, but the brain frying seems to be going well for Glaswegians in Dubai.

    'Former drug lord Stephen Jamieson offers £1k for 5G mast burning'

    https://tinyurl.com/yxm3ju5y

  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935
    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    IanB2 said:

    Today’s virus stats continue to illustrate the capricious nonsense that is the government’s quarantine decision making. Portugal, just removed from quarantine, 399 extra cases. Austria, added to quarantine on the same day Portugal was removed, 328 extra cases. Switzerland, to be added tomorrow morning, 361.

    If only the populations of all those countries were identical...
    They are very similarly sized, no?

    Per capita those numbers are Austria 3.7, Switzerland 3.9, Portugal 4.2 per 100,000. And the threshold might just be 3.8/100,000 (it's not, because it's based on a moving average).
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,357
    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    FPT
    Carnyx said:

    » show previous quotes
    Quite so. For people who are always going on about parasites the Tories seem very reluctant to let the SNP administer the medicine.

    It is a rip off , we send them 66 Billion , they gives us 32B back and then claim they have spent 49B on us on crap they actually mainly bought for themselves and try to make out we run a deficit. You would need to be a moron to try and argue that garbage.

    Hello Malcy. Hope it's not too dreich in your corner. We Scots were also discusing empire biscuits, you might have seen. What do they call them in your airt?
    Hi Carnyx , miserable here today , dreich describes it well. We always knew them as Empire biscuits as children , name change of course from German biscuits to save the Royals embarrassment during the war.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    nichomar said:

    I just think if you’re a sociable person - I’m a software eng but quite sociable which is quite rare believe me - and I’ve found ways to socialise without work.

    For the money I’m saving, it is well worth it.

    You’ll be voting Tory after you save enough for your deposit and get a mortgage😀
    He'll be in the Tory over-60 demographic by then :hushed:
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,681
    edited August 2020
    DavidL said:

    From a Dundee perspective I would say that the North is north of the Great Glen, basically north of the line from Fort William to Inverness.

    Which might hint that it is really a matter of perspective.

    For me the real feeling of "North" starts when crossing the Kessock Bridge beyond Inverness, which is of course the end of the Great Glen. So I'd go with that too.

    Yorkshire is the centre of the known universe, so in that sense it must be in the Midlands.

    If you draw a line from Duncansby Head to Gwennap Head, it is bisected roughly between Morecambe Bay and the Humber.


  • rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    guybrush said:

    I just think if you’re a sociable person - I’m a software eng but quite sociable which is quite rare believe me - and I’ve found ways to socialise without work.

    Online political discussion boards don't count though ;)
    Do WoW guilds though ?
    Doe WoW still exist? I last played it before I got married, and I've been married for fourteen years now.
    I preferred the original base-building strategy Warcraft games before WoW. Played the original, II and III and think a shame with WoW taking off is there's never been a IV as a result.

    That style of strategy game used to be quite common and well made, don't get many of them nowadays it seems. Now most strategy games like that seem to be online, build and then wait or pay premium currency to not wait types instead.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468

    DavidL said:

    From a Dundee perspective I would say that the North is north of the Great Glen, basically north of the line from Fort William to Inverness.

    Which might hint that it is really a matter of perspective.

    For me the real feeling of "North" starts when crossing the Kessock Bridge beyond Inverness.

    Yorkshire is the centre of the known universe, so in that sense it must be in the Midlands.

    If you draw a line from Duncansby Head to Gwennap Head, it is bisected roughly between Morecambe Bay and the Humber.


    The midlands start with Exeter, and the North with Bristol.
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,816
    I see Matt Le Tissier , Phil Thompson and Charlie Nicolas are all being finished by Sky for Soccer Saturday. Not sure why as any other line up will lose thousands of viewers I would have thought. (like Top gear did with Clarkson.May and Hammond leaving). Wonder if the three will move to a rival show on Amazon as well!
    Pity used to miss "watching men watching football" on a Saturday afternoon as they had good chemistry and were none too serious (it is only a game after all) .No doubt the replacements will be more intense and earnest and boring .
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    IanB2 said:

    Today’s virus stats continue to illustrate the capricious nonsense that is the government’s quarantine decision making. Portugal, just removed from quarantine, 399 extra cases. Austria, added to quarantine on the same day Portugal was removed, 328 extra cases. Switzerland, to be added tomorrow morning, 361.

    If only the populations of all those countries were identical...
    They are very similarly sized, no?

    20% variance from smallest to largest.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,357

    DavidL said:

    From a Dundee perspective I would say that the North is north of the Great Glen, basically north of the line from Fort William to Inverness.

    Which might hint that it is really a matter of perspective.

    But the Highland line is below that. Goes through Perthshire.
    You are almost Scottish Lucky knowing stuff like that, I will put you down as a maybe YES
  • rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    guybrush said:

    I just think if you’re a sociable person - I’m a software eng but quite sociable which is quite rare believe me - and I’ve found ways to socialise without work.

    Online political discussion boards don't count though ;)
    Do WoW guilds though ?
    Doe WoW still exist? I last played it before I got married, and I've been married for fourteen years now.
    I've often said instead of spending millions of pounds on birth control lessons/equipment for teenagers, just give them a world of warcraft subscription instead, you'll get the job done for a lot less.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,608

    I see Matt Le Tissier , Phil Thompson and Charlie Nicolas are all being finished by Sky for Soccer Saturday. Not sure why as any other line up will lose thousands of viewers I would have thought. (like Top gear did with Clarkson.May and Hammond leaving). Wonder if the three will move to a rival show on Amazon as well!
    Pity used to miss "watching men watching football" on a Saturday afternoon as they had good chemistry and were none too serious (it is only a game after all) .No doubt the replacements will be more intense and earnest and boring .

    Prolly girls too......
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205
    edited August 2020

    What do you expect to be U-Turned?

    The Government has not and never will (I assume) say that people must go back to the office - because its not in the Government's power to advise that.

    They've said that people should speak to their employers/employees and do what is appropriate to them. That should be the last word in the matter.
    We were discussing this in the office today, the Gov't can't force employers to send people back to other offices :D
    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    guybrush said:

    I just think if you’re a sociable person - I’m a software eng but quite sociable which is quite rare believe me - and I’ve found ways to socialise without work.

    Online political discussion boards don't count though ;)
    Do WoW guilds though ?
    Doe WoW still exist? I last played it before I got married, and I've been married for fourteen years now.
    Classic is more popular than ever now.
  • I see Matt Le Tissier , Phil Thompson and Charlie Nicolas are all being finished by Sky for Soccer Saturday. Not sure why as any other line up will lose thousands of viewers I would have thought. (like Top gear did with Clarkson.May and Hammond leaving). Wonder if the three will move to a rival show on Amazon as well!
    Pity used to miss "watching men watching football" on a Saturday afternoon as they had good chemistry and were none too serious (it is only a game after all) .No doubt the replacements will be more intense and earnest and boring .

    Prolly girls too......
    You're definitely not engaging in the WoW conversation then ...
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226

    kinabalu said:

    People who are less likely to be working want those younger than them to go back to the office, presumably they think WFH is lounging about and "it was much harder in my day"

    Boll8cks

    Its more likely that older people are anxious for the young to be able to get out and live their lives, seeing that Corona hardly affect them at all.

    That's certainly my view.

    You don't need to be at the office every day to have a life, we can still go the pub, etc
    Young people have always been attracted to big, fast, lively, sociable, cities. Places they can meet each other, socialise, make friends and develop relationships. Right now they cannot do the stuff I took for granted in my 20s.

    They should be able to. Everybody knows that granny needs to be avoided.
    I don't think anyone is stopping them any more. The point is that younger workers are (on average) much happier with the current arrangements. The only age group where there's majority support for encouraging a return to the office is those who are of retirement age.

    Now there are lots of ways of reading that, starting with a kind of false consciousness amongst the young. But it's quite possible that they prefer not commuting for work because that leaves more time for fun.
    I know that isn;t true, because my single 20 something daughter lives at home and is very definitely not happy with the current arrangements!
    I would be interested to see how it breaks down for people below 30, most people I've spoken to are quite happy WFH
    Less likely if they live with their parents though probably.
    WFH with children is probably harder than with parents.
    This is where it really helps if you can palm them off to an establishment located nearby where they will be looked after for the day by trained professionals.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    People who are less likely to be working want those younger than them to go back to the office, presumably they think WFH is lounging about and "it was much harder in my day"

    Boll8cks

    Its more likely that older people are anxious for the young to be able to get out and live their lives, seeing that Corona hardly affect them at all.

    That's certainly my view.

    You don't need to be at the office every day to have a life, we can still go the pub, etc
    Young people have always been attracted to big, fast, lively, sociable, cities. Places they can meet each other, socialise, make friends and develop relationships. Right now they cannot do the stuff I took for granted in my 20s.

    They should be able to. Everybody knows that granny needs to be avoided.
    I don't think anyone is stopping them any more. The point is that younger workers are (on average) much happier with the current arrangements. The only age group where there's majority support for encouraging a return to the office is those who are of retirement age.

    Now there are lots of ways of reading that, starting with a kind of false consciousness amongst the young. But it's quite possible that they prefer not commuting for work because that leaves more time for fun.
    I know that isn;t true, because my single 20 something daughter lives at home and is very definitely not happy with the current arrangements!
    I would be interested to see how it breaks down for people below 30, most people I've spoken to are quite happy WFH
    Less likely if they live with their parents though probably.
    WFH with children is probably harder than with parents.
    This is where it really helps if you can palm them off to an establishment located nearby where they will be looked after for the day by trained professionals.
    Is that school or the day centre?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,608

    I see Matt Le Tissier , Phil Thompson and Charlie Nicolas are all being finished by Sky for Soccer Saturday. Not sure why as any other line up will lose thousands of viewers I would have thought. (like Top gear did with Clarkson.May and Hammond leaving). Wonder if the three will move to a rival show on Amazon as well!
    Pity used to miss "watching men watching football" on a Saturday afternoon as they had good chemistry and were none too serious (it is only a game after all) .No doubt the replacements will be more intense and earnest and boring .

    Prolly girls too......
    You're definitely not engaging in the WoW conversation then ...
    I plough my lonely furrow with Civ......
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,357

    People who are less likely to be working want those younger than them to go back to the office, presumably they think WFH is lounging about and "it was much harder in my day"

    Boll8cks

    Its more likely that older people are anxious for the young to be able to get out and live their lives, seeing that Corona hardly affect them at all.

    That's certainly my view.

    You don't need to be at the office every day to have a life, we can still go the pub, etc
    Young people have always been attracted to big, fast, lively, sociable, cities. Places they can meet each other, socialise, make friends and develop relationships. Right now they cannot do the stuff I took for granted in my 20s.

    They should be able to. Everybody knows that granny needs to be avoided.
    I don't think anyone is stopping them any more. The point is that younger workers are (on average) much happier with the current arrangements. The only age group where there's majority support for encouraging a return to the office is those who are of retirement age.

    Now there are lots of ways of reading that, starting with a kind of false consciousness amongst the young. But it's quite possible that they prefer not commuting for work because that leaves more time for fun.
    I know that isn;t true, because my single 20 something daughter lives at home and is very definitely not happy with the current arrangements!
    I would be interested to see how it breaks down for people below 30, most people I've spoken to are quite happy WFH
    One of the 20 something girls who works for us texted me today

    'might do some online shopping for clothes I don't need for places I can't go.'

    She was chatting you up
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935

    I see Matt Le Tissier , Phil Thompson and Charlie Nicolas are all being finished by Sky for Soccer Saturday. Not sure why as any other line up will lose thousands of viewers I would have thought. (like Top gear did with Clarkson.May and Hammond leaving). Wonder if the three will move to a rival show on Amazon as well!
    Pity used to miss "watching men watching football" on a Saturday afternoon as they had good chemistry and were none too serious (it is only a game after all) .No doubt the replacements will be more intense and earnest and boring .

    Prolly girls too......
    You're definitely not engaging in the WoW conversation then ...
    I plough my lonely furrow with Civ......
    Have you tried Europa Universalis?

    Oops, there goes your free time.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676
    I see adding the votes for ed and layla together and using the turnout. Total LD membership is circa 118k.

    Rochdale must be most of that number presumably
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,608
    RobD said:

    I see Matt Le Tissier , Phil Thompson and Charlie Nicolas are all being finished by Sky for Soccer Saturday. Not sure why as any other line up will lose thousands of viewers I would have thought. (like Top gear did with Clarkson.May and Hammond leaving). Wonder if the three will move to a rival show on Amazon as well!
    Pity used to miss "watching men watching football" on a Saturday afternoon as they had good chemistry and were none too serious (it is only a game after all) .No doubt the replacements will be more intense and earnest and boring .

    Prolly girls too......
    You're definitely not engaging in the WoW conversation then ...
    I plough my lonely furrow with Civ......
    Have you tried Europa Universalis?

    Oops, there goes your free time.
    Does it come with the Brexit extension?
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676

    I see Matt Le Tissier , Phil Thompson and Charlie Nicolas are all being finished by Sky for Soccer Saturday. Not sure why as any other line up will lose thousands of viewers I would have thought. (like Top gear did with Clarkson.May and Hammond leaving). Wonder if the three will move to a rival show on Amazon as well!
    Pity used to miss "watching men watching football" on a Saturday afternoon as they had good chemistry and were none too serious (it is only a game after all) .No doubt the replacements will be more intense and earnest and boring .

    White supremacists think its to get Richards and a black lady footballer whose name escapes me on the show and are hurling vile abuse at said replacements
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,370
    nichomar said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    People who are less likely to be working want those younger than them to go back to the office, presumably they think WFH is lounging about and "it was much harder in my day"

    Boll8cks

    Its more likely that older people are anxious for the young to be able to get out and live their lives, seeing that Corona hardly affect them at all.

    That's certainly my view.

    You don't need to be at the office every day to have a life, we can still go the pub, etc
    Young people have always been attracted to big, fast, lively, sociable, cities. Places they can meet each other, socialise, make friends and develop relationships. Right now they cannot do the stuff I took for granted in my 20s.

    They should be able to. Everybody knows that granny needs to be avoided.
    I don't think anyone is stopping them any more. The point is that younger workers are (on average) much happier with the current arrangements. The only age group where there's majority support for encouraging a return to the office is those who are of retirement age.

    Now there are lots of ways of reading that, starting with a kind of false consciousness amongst the young. But it's quite possible that they prefer not commuting for work because that leaves more time for fun.
    I know that isn;t true, because my single 20 something daughter lives at home and is very definitely not happy with the current arrangements!
    I would be interested to see how it breaks down for people below 30, most people I've spoken to are quite happy WFH
    Less likely if they live with their parents though probably.
    WFH with children is probably harder than with parents.
    This is where it really helps if you can palm them off to an establishment located nearby where they will be looked after for the day by trained professionals.
    Is that school or the day centre?
    Often called "The Office", actually....
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226

    I see Matt Le Tissier , Phil Thompson and Charlie Nicolas are all being finished by Sky for Soccer Saturday. Not sure why as any other line up will lose thousands of viewers I would have thought. (like Top gear did with Clarkson.May and Hammond leaving). Wonder if the three will move to a rival show on Amazon as well!
    Pity used to miss "watching men watching football" on a Saturday afternoon as they had good chemistry and were none too serious (it is only a game after all) .No doubt the replacements will be more intense and earnest and boring .

    There’s a time for everything and nothing lasts forever. It started with Loaded and Fantasy Football League and it ends now with the demise of Le Tiss and Thommo and Charlie Nick. For me footy lad culture has had a dated feel for a while now so whilst not celebrating I shed no tears.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,878

    People who are less likely to be working want those younger than them to go back to the office, presumably they think WFH is lounging about and "it was much harder in my day"

    Apart from we keep getting told its the young that want to go back to the office and they will miss out on networking if not. CF MaxPb for an example of this. I am much older than you I suspect but still working and I welcome with open hands wfh for all that can and think its down to businesses to work out that they are in the wrong place and move. For those that can't move such as those that charge expensive rents on premises because its town centre innit....I shed no tears in fact I may even point and laugh
  • RobD said:

    I see Matt Le Tissier , Phil Thompson and Charlie Nicolas are all being finished by Sky for Soccer Saturday. Not sure why as any other line up will lose thousands of viewers I would have thought. (like Top gear did with Clarkson.May and Hammond leaving). Wonder if the three will move to a rival show on Amazon as well!
    Pity used to miss "watching men watching football" on a Saturday afternoon as they had good chemistry and were none too serious (it is only a game after all) .No doubt the replacements will be more intense and earnest and boring .

    Prolly girls too......
    You're definitely not engaging in the WoW conversation then ...
    I plough my lonely furrow with Civ......
    Have you tried Europa Universalis?

    Oops, there goes your free time.
    Nothing beats Paradox.

    The amount of hours that can go into Crusader Kings II.

    Crusader Kings III comes out 1 September. I'm not planning on buying it until I have nothing at all on my To Do list, when I do you probably won't see me on this site again for a while!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,149

    RobD said:

    I see Matt Le Tissier , Phil Thompson and Charlie Nicolas are all being finished by Sky for Soccer Saturday. Not sure why as any other line up will lose thousands of viewers I would have thought. (like Top gear did with Clarkson.May and Hammond leaving). Wonder if the three will move to a rival show on Amazon as well!
    Pity used to miss "watching men watching football" on a Saturday afternoon as they had good chemistry and were none too serious (it is only a game after all) .No doubt the replacements will be more intense and earnest and boring .

    Prolly girls too......
    You're definitely not engaging in the WoW conversation then ...
    I plough my lonely furrow with Civ......
    Have you tried Europa Universalis?

    Oops, there goes your free time.
    Nothing beats Paradox.

    The amount of hours that can go into Crusader Kings II.

    Crusader Kings III comes out 1 September. I'm not planning on buying it until I have nothing at all on my To Do list, when I do you probably won't see me on this site again for a while!
    They're too much for me. Kudos for getting it.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205

    I see Matt Le Tissier , Phil Thompson and Charlie Nicolas are all being finished by Sky for Soccer Saturday. Not sure why as any other line up will lose thousands of viewers I would have thought. (like Top gear did with Clarkson.May and Hammond leaving). Wonder if the three will move to a rival show on Amazon as well!
    Pity used to miss "watching men watching football" on a Saturday afternoon as they had good chemistry and were none too serious (it is only a game after all) .No doubt the replacements will be more intense and earnest and boring .

    Prolly girls too......
    It'll be the return of Andy Gray and Richard Keys.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,681
    edited August 2020
    malcolmg said:

    DavidL said:

    From a Dundee perspective I would say that the North is north of the Great Glen, basically north of the line from Fort William to Inverness.

    Which might hint that it is really a matter of perspective.

    But the Highland line is below that. Goes through Perthshire.
    You are almost Scottish Lucky knowing stuff like that, I will put you down as a maybe YES
    That's the SOUTHERN Highlands though.
    TimT said:

    DavidL said:

    From a Dundee perspective I would say that the North is north of the Great Glen, basically north of the line from Fort William to Inverness.

    Which might hint that it is really a matter of perspective.

    For me the real feeling of "North" starts when crossing the Kessock Bridge beyond Inverness.

    Yorkshire is the centre of the known universe, so in that sense it must be in the Midlands.

    If you draw a line from Duncansby Head to Gwennap Head, it is bisected roughly between Morecambe Bay and the Humber.


    The midlands start with Exeter, and the North with Bristol.
    If you live on the Lizard, perhaps...


    I should get out a GIS and do this properly.

    I suspect the correct way to do it is population weighted rather than by land centroids (or extent). Is there geographically defined census data at better than constituency resolution anywhere?
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    RobD said:

    I see Matt Le Tissier , Phil Thompson and Charlie Nicolas are all being finished by Sky for Soccer Saturday. Not sure why as any other line up will lose thousands of viewers I would have thought. (like Top gear did with Clarkson.May and Hammond leaving). Wonder if the three will move to a rival show on Amazon as well!
    Pity used to miss "watching men watching football" on a Saturday afternoon as they had good chemistry and were none too serious (it is only a game after all) .No doubt the replacements will be more intense and earnest and boring .

    Prolly girls too......
    You're definitely not engaging in the WoW conversation then ...
    I plough my lonely furrow with Civ......
    Have you tried Europa Universalis?

    Oops, there goes your free time.
    Nothing beats Paradox.

    The amount of hours that can go into Crusader Kings II.

    Crusader Kings III comes out 1 September. I'm not planning on buying it until I have nothing at all on my To Do list, when I do you probably won't see me on this site again for a while!
    I’ll buy it for you if you want!
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,878

    People who are less likely to be working want those younger than them to go back to the office, presumably they think WFH is lounging about and "it was much harder in my day"

    Boll8cks

    Its more likely that older people are anxious for the young to be able to get out and live their lives, seeing that Corona hardly affect them at all.

    That's certainly my view.

    You don't need to be at the office every day to have a life, we can still go the pub, etc
    Young people have always been attracted to big, fast, lively, sociable, cities. Places they can meet each other, socialise, make friends and develop relationships. Right now they cannot do the stuff I took for granted in my 20s.

    They should be able to. Everybody knows that granny needs to be avoided.
    I don't think anyone is stopping them any more. The point is that younger workers are (on average) much happier with the current arrangements. The only age group where there's majority support for encouraging a return to the office is those who are of retirement age.

    Now there are lots of ways of reading that, starting with a kind of false consciousness amongst the young. But it's quite possible that they prefer not commuting for work because that leaves more time for fun.
    I know that isn;t true, because my single 20 something daughter lives at home and is very definitely not happy with the current arrangements!
    Maybe she is discontent with sharing a house with you for so many hours? Just a thought
  • nichomar said:

    RobD said:

    I see Matt Le Tissier , Phil Thompson and Charlie Nicolas are all being finished by Sky for Soccer Saturday. Not sure why as any other line up will lose thousands of viewers I would have thought. (like Top gear did with Clarkson.May and Hammond leaving). Wonder if the three will move to a rival show on Amazon as well!
    Pity used to miss "watching men watching football" on a Saturday afternoon as they had good chemistry and were none too serious (it is only a game after all) .No doubt the replacements will be more intense and earnest and boring .

    Prolly girls too......
    You're definitely not engaging in the WoW conversation then ...
    I plough my lonely furrow with Civ......
    Have you tried Europa Universalis?

    Oops, there goes your free time.
    Nothing beats Paradox.

    The amount of hours that can go into Crusader Kings II.

    Crusader Kings III comes out 1 September. I'm not planning on buying it until I have nothing at all on my To Do list, when I do you probably won't see me on this site again for a while!
    I’ll buy it for you if you want!
    LOL I thought some cheeky so-and-so would say that! It would be most appreciated. :grin:
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935

    RobD said:

    I see Matt Le Tissier , Phil Thompson and Charlie Nicolas are all being finished by Sky for Soccer Saturday. Not sure why as any other line up will lose thousands of viewers I would have thought. (like Top gear did with Clarkson.May and Hammond leaving). Wonder if the three will move to a rival show on Amazon as well!
    Pity used to miss "watching men watching football" on a Saturday afternoon as they had good chemistry and were none too serious (it is only a game after all) .No doubt the replacements will be more intense and earnest and boring .

    Prolly girls too......
    You're definitely not engaging in the WoW conversation then ...
    I plough my lonely furrow with Civ......
    Have you tried Europa Universalis?

    Oops, there goes your free time.
    Nothing beats Paradox.

    The amount of hours that can go into Crusader Kings II.

    Crusader Kings III comes out 1 September. I'm not planning on buying it until I have nothing at all on my To Do list, when I do you probably won't see me on this site again for a while!
    Yeah I know what i'll be doing next week. :D
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,878
    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    guybrush said:

    I just think if you’re a sociable person - I’m a software eng but quite sociable which is quite rare believe me - and I’ve found ways to socialise without work.

    Online political discussion boards don't count though ;)
    Do WoW guilds though ?
    Doe WoW still exist? I last played it before I got married, and I've been married for fourteen years now.
    Wow still exists and you can even play classic now with a level cap of 60. Also everquest and eve are still going and even second life
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,878
    TimT said:

    DavidL said:

    From a Dundee perspective I would say that the North is north of the Great Glen, basically north of the line from Fort William to Inverness.

    Which might hint that it is really a matter of perspective.

    For me the real feeling of "North" starts when crossing the Kessock Bridge beyond Inverness.

    Yorkshire is the centre of the known universe, so in that sense it must be in the Midlands.

    If you draw a line from Duncansby Head to Gwennap Head, it is bisected roughly between Morecambe Bay and the Humber.


    The midlands start with Exeter, and the North with Bristol.
    The north starts at the Tamar
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,816
    edited August 2020
    Pagan2 said:

    People who are less likely to be working want those younger than them to go back to the office, presumably they think WFH is lounging about and "it was much harder in my day"

    Apart from we keep getting told its the young that want to go back to the office and they will miss out on networking if not. CF MaxPb for an example of this. I am much older than you I suspect but still working and I welcome with open hands wfh for all that can and think its down to businesses to work out that they are in the wrong place and move. For those that can't move such as those that charge expensive rents on premises because its town centre innit....I shed no tears in fact I may even point and laugh
    Personally I think they should just remove unnecessary barriers to working in the office (like face masks on trains when there is no covid about) then leave it up to businesses and employees - Some will want to work at home, some won't but it shouldn't be something to be debated as a massive divide between people as it really is a decision for individual businesses and staff not something to legislate or push either way by government.
  • Pagan2 said:

    People who are less likely to be working want those younger than them to go back to the office, presumably they think WFH is lounging about and "it was much harder in my day"

    Apart from we keep getting told its the young that want to go back to the office and they will miss out on networking if not. CF MaxPb for an example of this. I am much older than you I suspect but still working and I welcome with open hands wfh for all that can and think its down to businesses to work out that they are in the wrong place and move. For those that can't move such as those that charge expensive rents on premises because its town centre innit....I shed no tears in fact I may even point and laugh
    Personally I think they should just remove unnecessary barriers to working in the office (like face masks on train when there is no covid about) then leave it up to businesses and employees - Some will want to work at home, some won't but it should be be something debated as a massive divide between people as it really is a decision for individual businesses and staff not something to legislate or push either way by government.
    How are masks a barrier to working in the office? They're the opposite.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    Pagan2 said:

    People who are less likely to be working want those younger than them to go back to the office, presumably they think WFH is lounging about and "it was much harder in my day"

    Apart from we keep getting told its the young that want to go back to the office and they will miss out on networking if not. CF MaxPb for an example of this. I am much older than you I suspect but still working and I welcome with open hands wfh for all that can and think its down to businesses to work out that they are in the wrong place and move. For those that can't move such as those that charge expensive rents on premises because its town centre innit....I shed no tears in fact I may even point and laugh
    Personally I think they should just remove unnecessary barriers to working in the office (like face masks on train when there is no covid about) then leave it up to businesses and employees - Some will want to work at home, some won't but it should be be something debated as a massive divide between people as it really is a decision for individual businesses and staff not something to legislate or push either way by government.
    Why is a face mask on a train a barrier to working in the office?
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,707
    edited August 2020

    Businesses need to be adapting and realise that commuting might not ever return like it was before - and frankly that could be a good thing.

    There's nothing wrong with that other than the fact that a huge portion of "adapting" here really just equates to "massive downsizing".

    Maybe in the long run it will be a good thing, but not in the short term.

    The other problem is a lot of the public transport is not going to be in much better shape without commuters in the long run.

    The government's best bet is to do an equivalent to "Eat out to help out" for trains etc. to get people going back to city centres. Not even necessarily just to commute for work but for recreation, shopping trips, cinema trips, weekend socialising etc. Times when the network would generally be quieter anyway, to get the load spread more evenly.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,878

    Pagan2 said:

    People who are less likely to be working want those younger than them to go back to the office, presumably they think WFH is lounging about and "it was much harder in my day"

    Apart from we keep getting told its the young that want to go back to the office and they will miss out on networking if not. CF MaxPb for an example of this. I am much older than you I suspect but still working and I welcome with open hands wfh for all that can and think its down to businesses to work out that they are in the wrong place and move. For those that can't move such as those that charge expensive rents on premises because its town centre innit....I shed no tears in fact I may even point and laugh
    Personally I think they should just remove unnecessary barriers to working in the office (like face masks on train when there is no covid about) then leave it up to businesses and employees - Some will want to work at home, some won't but it shouldn't be something to be debated as a massive divide between people as it really is a decision for individual businesses and staff not something to legislate or push either way by government.
    I agree that it should purely be between businesses and their employees however CHB is actually right here there have been a lot of nudges coming from government circles that going back to the office is a good aim.
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,816
    nichomar said:

    Pagan2 said:

    People who are less likely to be working want those younger than them to go back to the office, presumably they think WFH is lounging about and "it was much harder in my day"

    Apart from we keep getting told its the young that want to go back to the office and they will miss out on networking if not. CF MaxPb for an example of this. I am much older than you I suspect but still working and I welcome with open hands wfh for all that can and think its down to businesses to work out that they are in the wrong place and move. For those that can't move such as those that charge expensive rents on premises because its town centre innit....I shed no tears in fact I may even point and laugh
    Personally I think they should just remove unnecessary barriers to working in the office (like face masks on train when there is no covid about) then leave it up to businesses and employees - Some will want to work at home, some won't but it should be be something debated as a massive divide between people as it really is a decision for individual businesses and staff not something to legislate or push either way by government.
    Why is a face mask on a train a barrier to working in the office?
    Well who wants to endure some cloth over your face on a commute to work? For no reason
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,914
    Nice, but is 'dark wizard' racist?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,036
    nichomar said:

    Pagan2 said:

    People who are less likely to be working want those younger than them to go back to the office, presumably they think WFH is lounging about and "it was much harder in my day"

    Apart from we keep getting told its the young that want to go back to the office and they will miss out on networking if not. CF MaxPb for an example of this. I am much older than you I suspect but still working and I welcome with open hands wfh for all that can and think its down to businesses to work out that they are in the wrong place and move. For those that can't move such as those that charge expensive rents on premises because its town centre innit....I shed no tears in fact I may even point and laugh
    Personally I think they should just remove unnecessary barriers to working in the office (like face masks on train when there is no covid about) then leave it up to businesses and employees - Some will want to work at home, some won't but it should be be something debated as a massive divide between people as it really is a decision for individual businesses and staff not something to legislate or push either way by government.
    Why is a face mask on a train a barrier to working in the office?
    I see the reverse. No face coverings in the office is a barrier to working in the office.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,878

    Businesses need to be adapting and realise that commuting might not ever return like it was before - and frankly that could be a good thing.

    There's nothing wrong with that other than the fact that a huge portion of "adapting" here really just equates to "massive downsizing".

    Maybe in the long run it will be a good thing, but not in the short term.

    The other problem is a lot of the public transport is not going to be in much better shape without commuters in the logn run.

    The government's best bet is to do an equivalent to "Eat out to help out" for trains etc. to get people going back to city centres. Not even necessarily just to commute for work but for recreation, shopping trips, cinema trips, weekend socialising etc.
    Who would go into a city centre for recreation? If I live in the sticks there are pubs near me, restaurants near me. The exception might be the draw of london.

    Massive downsizing doesnt matter because their will now be jobs crying out for staff as those commuter town boarded up shops get taken over to launch cafes etc as they now actually have a clientele. Those staff that move outwards will also find their cost of living reduced. Those that demand to live and work in london will merely find they have less choice
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    Pagan2 said:

    People who are less likely to be working want those younger than them to go back to the office, presumably they think WFH is lounging about and "it was much harder in my day"

    Apart from we keep getting told its the young that want to go back to the office and they will miss out on networking if not. CF MaxPb for an example of this. I am much older than you I suspect but still working and I welcome with open hands wfh for all that can and think its down to businesses to work out that they are in the wrong place and move. For those that can't move such as those that charge expensive rents on premises because its town centre innit....I shed no tears in fact I may even point and laugh
    Personally I think they should just remove unnecessary barriers to working in the office (like face masks on train when there is no covid about) then leave it up to businesses and employees - Some will want to work at home, some won't but it should be be something debated as a massive divide between people as it really is a decision for individual businesses and staff not something to legislate or push either way by government.
    How are masks a barrier to working in the office? They're the opposite.
    Masks in workplaces only encourage attendance for that fraction of the population which is currently working from home but would really like to go back to work, and for whom terror of Covid is sufficiently great that there must be masks everywhere (i.e. social distancing alone is insufficient.)

    For everybody else, they are either an irrelevance (people who don't mind wearing masks all day) or a disincentive (people who dislike wearing masks all day, and would rather keep working from home to avoid having to bother.)

    Now, what do you think the desperate to wear masks:don't care either way:would rather not thank you very much ratio looks like?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226
    Pulpstar said:

    I see Matt Le Tissier , Phil Thompson and Charlie Nicolas are all being finished by Sky for Soccer Saturday. Not sure why as any other line up will lose thousands of viewers I would have thought. (like Top gear did with Clarkson.May and Hammond leaving). Wonder if the three will move to a rival show on Amazon as well!
    Pity used to miss "watching men watching football" on a Saturday afternoon as they had good chemistry and were none too serious (it is only a game after all) .No doubt the replacements will be more intense and earnest and boring .

    Prolly girls too......
    It'll be the return of Andy Gray and Richard Keys.
    Lock up your daughters!
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    nichomar said:

    Pagan2 said:

    People who are less likely to be working want those younger than them to go back to the office, presumably they think WFH is lounging about and "it was much harder in my day"

    Apart from we keep getting told its the young that want to go back to the office and they will miss out on networking if not. CF MaxPb for an example of this. I am much older than you I suspect but still working and I welcome with open hands wfh for all that can and think its down to businesses to work out that they are in the wrong place and move. For those that can't move such as those that charge expensive rents on premises because its town centre innit....I shed no tears in fact I may even point and laugh
    Personally I think they should just remove unnecessary barriers to working in the office (like face masks on train when there is no covid about) then leave it up to businesses and employees - Some will want to work at home, some won't but it should be be something debated as a massive divide between people as it really is a decision for individual businesses and staff not something to legislate or push either way by government.
    Why is a face mask on a train a barrier to working in the office?
    Well who wants to endure some cloth over your face on a commute to work? For no reason
    You don’t know that it’s for no reason
  • guybrushguybrush Posts: 257

    Businesses need to be adapting and realise that commuting might not ever return like it was before - and frankly that could be a good thing.

    There's nothing wrong with that other than the fact that a huge portion of "adapting" here really just equates to "massive downsizing".

    Maybe in the long run it will be a good thing, but not in the short term.

    The other problem is a lot of the public transport is not going to be in much better shape without commuters in the long run.

    The government's best bet is to do an equivalent to "Eat out to help out" for trains etc. to get people going back to city centres. Not even necessarily just to commute for work but for recreation, shopping trips, cinema trips, weekend socialising etc. Times when the network would generally be quieter anyway, to get the load spread more evenly.
    This has to be the way forward. Revenue neutral as well, as the cost of running trains is pretty much fixed.

    I am sympathetic to the idea that eventually the employment market will sort it out. Employers will provide the facilities that their employees want, and allow them to remain competitive. The shock to city centre ecosystems pretty much overnight by removing commuters is pretty heavy though. Maybe a bit of nudging back into the office would be good, at least in the short term, and then allow things to evolve naturally over the coming years/decades.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,036

    Businesses need to be adapting and realise that commuting might not ever return like it was before - and frankly that could be a good thing.

    There's nothing wrong with that other than the fact that a huge portion of "adapting" here really just equates to "massive downsizing".

    Maybe in the long run it will be a good thing, but not in the short term.

    The other problem is a lot of the public transport is not going to be in much better shape without commuters in the long run.

    The government's best bet is to do an equivalent to "Eat out to help out" for trains etc. to get people going back to city centres. Not even necessarily just to commute for work but for recreation, shopping trips, cinema trips, weekend socialising etc. Times when the network would generally be quieter anyway, to get the load spread more evenly.
    It could be a free trip with a Deltic on the front - I'm still not catching a train.
This discussion has been closed.