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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » If the Tories are to lose their majority there has to be an “u

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    El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 3,873

    Isn’t Build Back Better the government’s slogan? Does Jo Swinson think she’s still in coalition?

    It's an international slogan. I've seen it used in the US several times. Layla Moran's book of essays was called Build Back Better too, I think.
  • Options
    contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    nichomar said:

    Meanwhile maskless, free, prosperous Sweden is thinking of further relaxations....allowing gatherings of 500 seated people.

    Maybe their young people just don;t fancy a nite out, like they do in Spain. Or its more spaced out there innit.

    Or something.

    Sweden 25 people per km squared
    England 432 people per km squared

    There might be a difference there. See if you spot it.
    The comparison was between Sweden and Spain.

    Spain is pretty big too. And mask crazy. Ditto France.

    Why are they doing so badly when Sweden is doing so well?

    Yeh its them youngster going to dem nite clubs innit, before they was closed weeks ago.

    or something.
    Stupidly night bars with disco music opened up at the end of May (I think) the rules were in place and have widely been ignored despite hundreds of fines being imposed. They are all shut again since 17/8 except where idiot judges have reversed the shutdown. We’re in a period of mass movement of people as Madrid and Murcia second home owners head for the coast meeting up with friends not seen for a year, lots of hugs and kisses and un distanced ad hoc parties on the terrace. There are reasons for the outbreaks, they could have been minimized if people had obeyed the rules, worn their masks and kept two meters apart but they didn’t.
    Yebbut they do all that in Sweden too but on a grander scale because there are no masks.

    Something does not add up.
  • Options

    Meanwhile maskless, free, prosperous Sweden is thinking of further relaxations....allowing gatherings of 500 seated people.

    Maybe their young people just don;t fancy a nite out, like they do in Spain. Or its more spaced out there innit.

    Or something.

    Sweden 25 people per km squared
    England 432 people per km squared

    There might be a difference there. See if you spot it.
    The comparison was between Sweden and Spain.

    Spain is pretty big too. And mask crazy. Ditto France.

    Why are they doing so badly when Sweden is doing so well?

    Yeh its them youngster going to dem nite clubs innit, before they was closed weeks ago.

    or something.
    Who says Sweden is doing so well?
    Alistair Hames, he has all these graphs and data that says so.
  • Options

    nichomar said:

    Meanwhile maskless, free, prosperous Sweden is thinking of further relaxations....allowing gatherings of 500 seated people.

    Maybe their young people just don;t fancy a nite out, like they do in Spain. Or its more spaced out there innit.

    Or something.

    Sweden 25 people per km squared
    England 432 people per km squared

    There might be a difference there. See if you spot it.
    The comparison was between Sweden and Spain.

    Spain is pretty big too. And mask crazy. Ditto France.

    Why are they doing so badly when Sweden is doing so well?

    Yeh its them youngster going to dem nite clubs innit, before they was closed weeks ago.

    or something.
    Stupidly night bars with disco music opened up at the end of May (I think) the rules were in place and have widely been ignored despite hundreds of fines being imposed. They are all shut again since 17/8 except where idiot judges have reversed the shutdown. We’re in a period of mass movement of people as Madrid and Murcia second home owners head for the coast meeting up with friends not seen for a year, lots of hugs and kisses and un distanced ad hoc parties on the terrace. There are reasons for the outbreaks, they could have been minimized if people had obeyed the rules, worn their masks and kept two meters apart but they didn’t.
    Yebbut they do all that in Sweden too but on a grander scale because there are no masks.

    Something does not add up.
    Sweden is far more Socially Distanced.

    Also Sweden is doing badly. In both cases per capita and economic statistics Sweden is struggling. Sweden will almost certainly have worse Q3 growth figures than the UK does.
  • Options
    nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    nichomar said:

    Meanwhile maskless, free, prosperous Sweden is thinking of further relaxations....allowing gatherings of 500 seated people.

    Maybe their young people just don;t fancy a nite out, like they do in Spain. Or its more spaced out there innit.

    Or something.

    Sweden 25 people per km squared
    England 432 people per km squared

    There might be a difference there. See if you spot it.
    The comparison was between Sweden and Spain.

    Spain is pretty big too. And mask crazy. Ditto France.

    Why are they doing so badly when Sweden is doing so well?

    Yeh its them youngster going to dem nite clubs innit, before they was closed weeks ago.

    or something.
    Stupidly night bars with disco music opened up at the end of May (I think) the rules were in place and have widely been ignored despite hundreds of fines being imposed. They are all shut again since 17/8 except where idiot judges have reversed the shutdown. We’re in a period of mass movement of people as Madrid and Murcia second home owners head for the coast meeting up with friends not seen for a year, lots of hugs and kisses and un distanced ad hoc parties on the terrace. There are reasons for the outbreaks, they could have been minimized if people had obeyed the rules, worn their masks and kept two meters apart but they didn’t.
    Yebbut they do all that in Sweden too but on a grander scale because there are no masks.

    Something does not add up.
    I have no knowledge of Swedish nightlife or family/friends get togethers but I can’t really imagine it’s similar to Spain, not heard of anyone going to Sweden for a stag night.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,927

    tlg86 said:

    Of course, the blame was shared throughout English football in 1985. Perhaps that was understandable, but I can see why fans of certain clubs are still bitter about it.

    But as it happens I think Liverpool get too much of the blame for Heysel. My friends were there in 1980 for the Cup Winners Cup Final and they said the ground was falling to bits and completely unsuitable for a major European final. And the Juve fans didn't exactly cover themselves in glory in 1985.

    Indeed, one of the earliest indications to me that Hillsborough wasn't the fault of Liverpool fans was when I met a Leeds fan in 1992/93 ish, he said Leeds had played a semifinal there a few seasons prior and Leeds fan experienced a crush, and said something similar happened a few years prior to that involving Spurs.

    In a book by Tony Evans (I think) he pointed out prior to the Heysel final both Liverpool and Juventus tried to get the final relocated because it was known the stadium wasn't up to scratch but UEFA did a 30 minute inspection in April and said it was fine.

    As for the ban, I do feel sorry for the likes of Norwich, Wimbledon, and Coventry who were denied. An Everton supporting friend is convinced that the ban denied Howard Kendall's team the inevitability of doing a Liverpool and winning 3/4 European Cups in a short space of time.

    The irony is lost on the likes of Manchester United fans who chant 'murderers' at Liverpool when their own fans have murdered Crystal Palace and Middlesbrough fans and at one point rioted so badly in Europe that they were thrown out of a European competition, but were allowed back in on the proviso they had to play 300 miles away from Old Trafford.
    If they forced united to play in London it would be no punishment at all. In fact, it would result in a considerably shorter journey for most of their fans.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,310
    kjh said:

    I am anti gongs for anything except valour and possibly voluntary work and there shouldn't be a difference between the type of gongs for 'important' people and and the plebs who are brave or give freely of their time for good causes.

    I am also anti Farage, BUT if gongs are going to be given out for your political impact (and there are a whole host of MPs and ex-MPs who most of us have never heard of who have got them) then Farage must come pretty high up on the list for deserving one (says through gritted teeth).
    Through teeth gritted even more tightly than yours, I agree. We are Leave Nation and Nigel Farage has moulded us more than any other single politician. He has devoted his life to his grand and (imo) toxic reactionary project and he has lived to see it realized. He took the brickbats in the early days, all the abuse, the derision, when the cause was no more than a niche for nutters, and he did not give up. He persisted and he came through. In June 2016 he came through. And I make no apology for breaking into song at this point because the song works perfectly. It's Manilow at his most poignant and uplifting. Nigel made it through the rain, and kept his world protected, he made it through the rain, he kept his point of view. Yes, he made it through the rain and finally found himself respected by the others who got rained on too. And made it through.

    A peerage is the very least this man deserves and it devalues the whole shebang that he has been denied one.
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Wouldn't entirely surprise me if Trump descends from a chopper carrying a gold plated AR15 accompanied by Baron in full body armour.

    https://twitter.com/AynRandPaulRyan/status/1298958865732521985?s=20

    Siri, what is the Hatch Act?
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,556
    edited August 2020
    Sandpit said:

    tlg86 said:

    Of course, the blame was shared throughout English football in 1985. Perhaps that was understandable, but I can see why fans of certain clubs are still bitter about it.

    But as it happens I think Liverpool get too much of the blame for Heysel. My friends were there in 1980 for the Cup Winners Cup Final and they said the ground was falling to bits and completely unsuitable for a major European final. And the Juve fans didn't exactly cover themselves in glory in 1985.

    Indeed, one of the earliest indications to me that Hillsborough wasn't the fault of Liverpool fans was when I met a Leeds fan in 1992/93 ish, he said Leeds had played a semifinal there a few seasons prior and Leeds fan experienced a crush, and said something similar happened a few years prior to that involving Spurs.

    In a book by Tony Evans (I think) he pointed out prior to the Heysel final both Liverpool and Juventus tried to get the final relocated because it was known the stadium wasn't up to scratch but UEFA did a 30 minute inspection in April and said it was fine.

    As for the ban, I do feel sorry for the likes of Norwich, Wimbledon, and Coventry who were denied. An Everton supporting friend is convinced that the ban denied Howard Kendall's team the inevitability of doing a Liverpool and winning 3/4 European Cups in a short space of time.

    The irony is lost on the likes of Manchester United fans who chant 'murderers' at Liverpool when their own fans have murdered Crystal Palace and Middlesbrough fans and at one point rioted so badly in Europe that they were thrown out of a European competition, but were allowed back in on the proviso they had to play 300 miles away from Old Trafford.
    If they forced united to play in London it would be no punishment at all. In fact, it would result in a considerably shorter journey for most of their fans.
    London was too close, I think they ended up playing at Torquay, Plymouth, or Exeter.

    Edit - It was Plymouth

    https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/feb/16/manchester-united-st-etienne-plymouth-riot-cup-winners-cup
  • Options
    nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    kinabalu said:

    kjh said:

    I am anti gongs for anything except valour and possibly voluntary work and there shouldn't be a difference between the type of gongs for 'important' people and and the plebs who are brave or give freely of their time for good causes.

    I am also anti Farage, BUT if gongs are going to be given out for your political impact (and there are a whole host of MPs and ex-MPs who most of us have never heard of who have got them) then Farage must come pretty high up on the list for deserving one (says through gritted teeth).
    Through teeth gritted even more tightly than yours, I agree. We are Leave Nation and Nigel Farage has moulded us more than any other single politician. He has devoted his life to his grand and (imo) toxic reactionary project and he has lived to see it realized. He took the brickbats in the early days, all the abuse, the derision, when the cause was no more than a niche for nutters, and he did not give up. He persisted and he came through. In June 2016 he came through. And I make no apology for breaking into song at this point because the song works perfectly. It's Manilow at his most poignant and uplifting. Nigel made it through the rain, and kept his world protected, he made it through the rain, he kept his point of view. Yes, he made it through the rain and finally found himself respected by the others who got rained on too. And made it through.

    A peerage is the very least this man deserves and it devalues the whole shebang that he has been denied one.
    He would have to declare all his income sources no way he’d accept one yet whilst this troughs to be troughed.
  • Options
    kinabalu said:

    kjh said:

    I am anti gongs for anything except valour and possibly voluntary work and there shouldn't be a difference between the type of gongs for 'important' people and and the plebs who are brave or give freely of their time for good causes.

    I am also anti Farage, BUT if gongs are going to be given out for your political impact (and there are a whole host of MPs and ex-MPs who most of us have never heard of who have got them) then Farage must come pretty high up on the list for deserving one (says through gritted teeth).
    Through teeth gritted even more tightly than yours, I agree. We are Leave Nation and Nigel Farage has moulded us more than any other single politician. He has devoted his life to his grand and (imo) toxic reactionary project and he has lived to see it realized. He took the brickbats in the early days, all the abuse, the derision, when the cause was no more than a niche for nutters, and he did not give up. He persisted and he came through. In June 2016 he came through. And I make no apology for breaking into song at this point because the song works perfectly. It's Manilow at his most poignant and uplifting. Nigel made it through the rain, and kept his world protected, he made it through the rain, he kept his point of view. Yes, he made it through the rain and finally found himself respected by the others who got rained on too. And made it through.

    A peerage is the very least this man deserves and it devalues the whole shebang that he has been denied one.
    Farage won't accept a peerage anyway.

    He'd have to declare all his outside earnings and interests.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,137
    nichomar said:

    Meanwhile maskless, free, prosperous Sweden is thinking of further relaxations....allowing gatherings of 500 seated people.

    Maybe their young people just don;t fancy a nite out, like they do in Spain. Or its more spaced out there innit.

    Or something.

    Sweden 25 people per km squared
    England 432 people per km squared

    There might be a difference there. See if you spot it.
    The comparison was between Sweden and Spain.

    Spain is pretty big too. And mask crazy. Ditto France.

    Why are they doing so badly when Sweden is doing so well?

    Yeh its them youngster going to dem nite clubs innit, before they was closed weeks ago.

    or something.
    Stupidly night bars with disco music opened up at the end of May (I think) the rules were in place and have widely been ignored despite hundreds of fines being imposed. They are all shut again since 17/8 except where idiot judges have reversed the shutdown. We’re in a period of mass movement of people as Madrid and Murcia second home owners head for the coast meeting up with friends not seen for a year, lots of hugs and kisses and un distanced ad hoc parties on the terrace. There are reasons for the outbreaks, they could have been minimized if people had obeyed the rules, worn their masks and kept two meters apart but they didn’t.
    The burning need for people to convince themselves this thing is over - so they can go back to their prior lifestyle - is what is condemning us to at least one further unnecessary spike. And so being unable to resume that lifestyle.

    If we'd ever had a nuclear attack, within hours these same people would have been in the smouldering ruins of their gardens, having a barbie with their neighbours amongst the fallout.

    Pillocks.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,283
    nichomar said:

    nichomar said:

    Meanwhile maskless, free, prosperous Sweden is thinking of further relaxations....allowing gatherings of 500 seated people.

    Maybe their young people just don;t fancy a nite out, like they do in Spain. Or its more spaced out there innit.

    Or something.

    Sweden 25 people per km squared
    England 432 people per km squared

    There might be a difference there. See if you spot it.
    The comparison was between Sweden and Spain.

    Spain is pretty big too. And mask crazy. Ditto France.

    Why are they doing so badly when Sweden is doing so well?

    Yeh its them youngster going to dem nite clubs innit, before they was closed weeks ago.

    or something.
    Stupidly night bars with disco music opened up at the end of May (I think) the rules were in place and have widely been ignored despite hundreds of fines being imposed. They are all shut again since 17/8 except where idiot judges have reversed the shutdown. We’re in a period of mass movement of people as Madrid and Murcia second home owners head for the coast meeting up with friends not seen for a year, lots of hugs and kisses and un distanced ad hoc parties on the terrace. There are reasons for the outbreaks, they could have been minimized if people had obeyed the rules, worn their masks and kept two meters apart but they didn’t.
    Yebbut they do all that in Sweden too but on a grander scale because there are no masks.

    Something does not add up.
    I have no knowledge of Swedish nightlife or family/friends get togethers but I can’t really imagine it’s similar to Spain, not heard of anyone going to Sweden for a stag night.
    This paper is worth a look:

    "The existing literature has concluded that NPI policy [non-pharma interventions] and social distancing have been essential to reducing the spread of COVID-19 and the number of deaths due to this deadly pandemic. The stylized facts established in this paper challenge this conclusion."

    https://www.nber.org/papers/w27719.pdf

    The death rate graphs between different countries seem to show similar patterns.
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,902
    These are truly exciting times British Politics. Ed Davey is a colossus inspiring a new generation. The atmosphere is electric today.
  • Options
    If Labour want co-operation from the LDs, the first thing Labour need to do is STFU about the Coalition.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,283
    Alistair said:

    Wouldn't entirely surprise me if Trump descends from a chopper carrying a gold plated AR15 accompanied by Baron in full body armour.

    https://twitter.com/AynRandPaulRyan/status/1298958865732521985?s=20

    Siri, what is the Hatch Act?
    "While the restrictions do not apply to the president himself, any staff members assisting with the speech are likely to be doing so in violation of the act."

    NYTimes.

    So, everyone else gets into shit but not the Donald. Sounds like his whole life.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,283
    Jonathan said:

    These are truly exciting times British Politics. Ed Davey is a colossus inspiring a new generation. The atmosphere is electric today.

    Bit early isn't it?
  • Options
    nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    nichomar said:

    Meanwhile maskless, free, prosperous Sweden is thinking of further relaxations....allowing gatherings of 500 seated people.

    Maybe their young people just don;t fancy a nite out, like they do in Spain. Or its more spaced out there innit.

    Or something.

    Sweden 25 people per km squared
    England 432 people per km squared

    There might be a difference there. See if you spot it.
    The comparison was between Sweden and Spain.

    Spain is pretty big too. And mask crazy. Ditto France.

    Why are they doing so badly when Sweden is doing so well?

    Yeh its them youngster going to dem nite clubs innit, before they was closed weeks ago.

    or something.
    Stupidly night bars with disco music opened up at the end of May (I think) the rules were in place and have widely been ignored despite hundreds of fines being imposed. They are all shut again since 17/8 except where idiot judges have reversed the shutdown. We’re in a period of mass movement of people as Madrid and Murcia second home owners head for the coast meeting up with friends not seen for a year, lots of hugs and kisses and un distanced ad hoc parties on the terrace. There are reasons for the outbreaks, they could have been minimized if people had obeyed the rules, worn their masks and kept two meters apart but they didn’t.
    The burning need for people to convince themselves this thing is over - so they can go back to their prior lifestyle - is what is condemning us to at least one further unnecessary spike. And so being unable to resume that lifestyle.

    If we'd ever had a nuclear attack, within hours these same people would have been in the smouldering ruins of their gardens, having a barbie with their neighbours amongst the fallout.

    Pillocks.
    I couldn’t understand that people wanted more than the freedoms we had, after 58 days of incarceration then being able to go for a drink and a meal seemed like heaven. Difficult I know for youngsters but even the oldies want their bingo, quiz, karaoke etc forgetting the rules whilst they partake. Many behave as if it’s all a con and even go out of their way to prove they are invincible.
  • Options
    kinabalu said:

    kjh said:

    I am anti gongs for anything except valour and possibly voluntary work and there shouldn't be a difference between the type of gongs for 'important' people and and the plebs who are brave or give freely of their time for good causes.

    I am also anti Farage, BUT if gongs are going to be given out for your political impact (and there are a whole host of MPs and ex-MPs who most of us have never heard of who have got them) then Farage must come pretty high up on the list for deserving one (says through gritted teeth).
    Through teeth gritted even more tightly than yours, I agree. We are Leave Nation and Nigel Farage has moulded us more than any other single politician. He has devoted his life to his grand and (imo) toxic reactionary project and he has lived to see it realized. He took the brickbats in the early days, all the abuse, the derision, when the cause was no more than a niche for nutters, and he did not give up. He persisted and he came through. In June 2016 he came through. And I make no apology for breaking into song at this point because the song works perfectly. It's Manilow at his most poignant and uplifting. Nigel made it through the rain, and kept his world protected, he made it through the rain, he kept his point of view. Yes, he made it through the rain and finally found himself respected by the others who got rained on too. And made it through.

    A peerage is the very least this man deserves and it devalues the whole shebang that he has been denied one.
    Are you suggesting that politically he was in the wilderness? But somehow he made it through?

    Has he been had? Is he sad and blue? Would a gong make him feel shiny and new?
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,310

    kinabalu said:

    kjh said:

    I am anti gongs for anything except valour and possibly voluntary work and there shouldn't be a difference between the type of gongs for 'important' people and and the plebs who are brave or give freely of their time for good causes.

    I am also anti Farage, BUT if gongs are going to be given out for your political impact (and there are a whole host of MPs and ex-MPs who most of us have never heard of who have got them) then Farage must come pretty high up on the list for deserving one (says through gritted teeth).
    Through teeth gritted even more tightly than yours, I agree. We are Leave Nation and Nigel Farage has moulded us more than any other single politician. He has devoted his life to his grand and (imo) toxic reactionary project and he has lived to see it realized. He took the brickbats in the early days, all the abuse, the derision, when the cause was no more than a niche for nutters, and he did not give up. He persisted and he came through. In June 2016 he came through. And I make no apology for breaking into song at this point because the song works perfectly. It's Manilow at his most poignant and uplifting. Nigel made it through the rain, and kept his world protected, he made it through the rain, he kept his point of view. Yes, he made it through the rain and finally found himself respected by the others who got rained on too. And made it through.

    A peerage is the very least this man deserves and it devalues the whole shebang that he has been denied one.
    Farage won't accept a peerage anyway.

    He'd have to declare all his outside earnings and interests.
    And so says @nichomar too. Yes, I can imagine. In fact I'm not sure what his priority now is. To stay relevant politically on the populist right? Or to monetize and luxuriate? I guess both might be doable. At least, unlike his hero across the pond, he doesn't have prison hanging over him. Not as far as I know anyway.
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,284
    Jonathan said:

    These are truly exciting times British Politics. Ed Davey is a colossus inspiring a new generation. The atmosphere is electric today.

    Are those pictures of Jim Carrey and Jeff Daniels in the thread header?
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,310
    edited August 2020

    kinabalu said:

    kjh said:

    I am anti gongs for anything except valour and possibly voluntary work and there shouldn't be a difference between the type of gongs for 'important' people and and the plebs who are brave or give freely of their time for good causes.

    I am also anti Farage, BUT if gongs are going to be given out for your political impact (and there are a whole host of MPs and ex-MPs who most of us have never heard of who have got them) then Farage must come pretty high up on the list for deserving one (says through gritted teeth).
    Through teeth gritted even more tightly than yours, I agree. We are Leave Nation and Nigel Farage has moulded us more than any other single politician. He has devoted his life to his grand and (imo) toxic reactionary project and he has lived to see it realized. He took the brickbats in the early days, all the abuse, the derision, when the cause was no more than a niche for nutters, and he did not give up. He persisted and he came through. In June 2016 he came through. And I make no apology for breaking into song at this point because the song works perfectly. It's Manilow at his most poignant and uplifting. Nigel made it through the rain, and kept his world protected, he made it through the rain, he kept his point of view. Yes, he made it through the rain and finally found himself respected by the others who got rained on too. And made it through.

    A peerage is the very least this man deserves and it devalues the whole shebang that he has been denied one.
    Are you suggesting that politically he was in the wilderness? But somehow he made it through?

    Has he been had? Is he sad and blue? Would a gong make him feel shiny and new?
    Sad and blue about being had by Johnson, yes that works too.

    But Farage is more of a Manilow than a Madonna sort of bloke to me.
  • Options
    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    FPT

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:
    This should bring a smile to all you United fans.



    Sorry not sorry.
    Outrageous. The man is Innocent until proven Guilty again.
    I would tentatively suggest that a trial where none of the accused were present or represented and none of the evidence was challenged is not particularly good evidence of anything.
    The Greek police are arseholes when I've seen them in action, which was in Athens 2007.

    If weren't for the fact there were so many British police out there in an official capacity it would have been much worse.

    They were indiscriminately striking people, including young children, then trying to arrest stricken people for being a nuisance is truly special.

    My 'favourite' was the Greek rozzer who grabbed official match tickets from Liverpool fans, hit them, then said they were trying to get in without tickets.
    Heysel.
    What about it?
    If I were a greek rozzer who'd heard about it, I'd behave like that. Sowing -> reaping.
    But that was over twenty years ago and in the previous six years Liverpool had been to two European finals without incident.

    Since readmittance the greatest violent seen involving fans from England featured Arsenal.
    Citation required.
    The 2000 UEFA Cup Final.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pfir10me2EQ
    And you think the causal factor there were the Arsenal fans? Given what happened at the semi final, I think the opponents were the key factor.
    It happened on Arsenal's watch, not all those fans convicted at Heysel were Liverpool fans, but Liverpool (rightly) took the blame for that disgrace.
    Of course, the blame was shared throughout English football in 1985. Perhaps that was understandable, but I can see why fans of certain clubs are still bitter about it.

    But as it happens I think Liverpool get too much of the blame for Heysel. My friends were there in 1980 for the Cup Winners Cup Final and they said the ground was falling to bits and completely unsuitable for a major European final. And the Juve fans didn't exactly cover themselves in glory in 1985.
    That, for me, says everything about football. 39 dead because the premises were a bit shabby.
  • Options
    kjhkjh Posts: 10,668

    kinabalu said:

    kjh said:

    I am anti gongs for anything except valour and possibly voluntary work and there shouldn't be a difference between the type of gongs for 'important' people and and the plebs who are brave or give freely of their time for good causes.

    I am also anti Farage, BUT if gongs are going to be given out for your political impact (and there are a whole host of MPs and ex-MPs who most of us have never heard of who have got them) then Farage must come pretty high up on the list for deserving one (says through gritted teeth).
    Through teeth gritted even more tightly than yours, I agree. We are Leave Nation and Nigel Farage has moulded us more than any other single politician. He has devoted his life to his grand and (imo) toxic reactionary project and he has lived to see it realized. He took the brickbats in the early days, all the abuse, the derision, when the cause was no more than a niche for nutters, and he did not give up. He persisted and he came through. In June 2016 he came through. And I make no apology for breaking into song at this point because the song works perfectly. It's Manilow at his most poignant and uplifting. Nigel made it through the rain, and kept his world protected, he made it through the rain, he kept his point of view. Yes, he made it through the rain and finally found himself respected by the others who got rained on too. And made it through.

    A peerage is the very least this man deserves and it devalues the whole shebang that he has been denied one.
    Are you suggesting that politically he was in the wilderness? But somehow he made it through?

    Has he been had? Is he sad and blue? Would a gong make him feel shiny and new?
    I'm sorry I posted that now. I think you and kinabalu have lost the plot. I have vision of you doing a duet of a Manilow medley.
  • Options
    kjh said:

    kinabalu said:

    kjh said:

    I am anti gongs for anything except valour and possibly voluntary work and there shouldn't be a difference between the type of gongs for 'important' people and and the plebs who are brave or give freely of their time for good causes.

    I am also anti Farage, BUT if gongs are going to be given out for your political impact (and there are a whole host of MPs and ex-MPs who most of us have never heard of who have got them) then Farage must come pretty high up on the list for deserving one (says through gritted teeth).
    Through teeth gritted even more tightly than yours, I agree. We are Leave Nation and Nigel Farage has moulded us more than any other single politician. He has devoted his life to his grand and (imo) toxic reactionary project and he has lived to see it realized. He took the brickbats in the early days, all the abuse, the derision, when the cause was no more than a niche for nutters, and he did not give up. He persisted and he came through. In June 2016 he came through. And I make no apology for breaking into song at this point because the song works perfectly. It's Manilow at his most poignant and uplifting. Nigel made it through the rain, and kept his world protected, he made it through the rain, he kept his point of view. Yes, he made it through the rain and finally found himself respected by the others who got rained on too. And made it through.

    A peerage is the very least this man deserves and it devalues the whole shebang that he has been denied one.
    Are you suggesting that politically he was in the wilderness? But somehow he made it through?

    Has he been had? Is he sad and blue? Would a gong make him feel shiny and new?
    I'm sorry I posted that now. I think you and kinabalu have lost the plot. I have vision of you doing a duet of a Manilow medley.
    As Kinabalu recognised mine was Madonna. Though I dropped the lyrics that would make it overly obvious it was like a virgin.
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,284
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kjh said:

    I am anti gongs for anything except valour and possibly voluntary work and there shouldn't be a difference between the type of gongs for 'important' people and and the plebs who are brave or give freely of their time for good causes.

    I am also anti Farage, BUT if gongs are going to be given out for your political impact (and there are a whole host of MPs and ex-MPs who most of us have never heard of who have got them) then Farage must come pretty high up on the list for deserving one (says through gritted teeth).
    Through teeth gritted even more tightly than yours, I agree. We are Leave Nation and Nigel Farage has moulded us more than any other single politician. He has devoted his life to his grand and (imo) toxic reactionary project and he has lived to see it realized. He took the brickbats in the early days, all the abuse, the derision, when the cause was no more than a niche for nutters, and he did not give up. He persisted and he came through. In June 2016 he came through. And I make no apology for breaking into song at this point because the song works perfectly. It's Manilow at his most poignant and uplifting. Nigel made it through the rain, and kept his world protected, he made it through the rain, he kept his point of view. Yes, he made it through the rain and finally found himself respected by the others who got rained on too. And made it through.

    A peerage is the very least this man deserves and it devalues the whole shebang that he has been denied one.
    Are you suggesting that politically he was in the wilderness? But somehow he made it through?

    Has he been had? Is he sad and blue? Would a gong make him feel shiny and new?
    Sad and blue about being had by Johnson, yes that works too.

    But Farage is more of a Manilow than a Madonna sort of bloke to me.
    Well his career as an MP had something of the Bermuda Triangle about it. Lost without trace.
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,785
    Grade A Pillock.....

    https://twitter.com/DailyMailUK/status/1298966004756877313?s=20

    I wonder what (if any) sanction he'll face?
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,039

    kinabalu said:

    kjh said:

    I am anti gongs for anything except valour and possibly voluntary work and there shouldn't be a difference between the type of gongs for 'important' people and and the plebs who are brave or give freely of their time for good causes.

    I am also anti Farage, BUT if gongs are going to be given out for your political impact (and there are a whole host of MPs and ex-MPs who most of us have never heard of who have got them) then Farage must come pretty high up on the list for deserving one (says through gritted teeth).
    Through teeth gritted even more tightly than yours, I agree. We are Leave Nation and Nigel Farage has moulded us more than any other single politician. He has devoted his life to his grand and (imo) toxic reactionary project and he has lived to see it realized. He took the brickbats in the early days, all the abuse, the derision, when the cause was no more than a niche for nutters, and he did not give up. He persisted and he came through. In June 2016 he came through. And I make no apology for breaking into song at this point because the song works perfectly. It's Manilow at his most poignant and uplifting. Nigel made it through the rain, and kept his world protected, he made it through the rain, he kept his point of view. Yes, he made it through the rain and finally found himself respected by the others who got rained on too. And made it through.

    A peerage is the very least this man deserves and it devalues the whole shebang that he has been denied one.
    Are you suggesting that politically he was in the wilderness? But somehow he made it through?

    Has he been had? Is he sad and blue? Would a gong make him feel shiny and new?
    One of my sons worked fairly near him on whichever Exchange it was back in the 90's. He was fanatically anti-EU then; tried to recruit my son, who was off to Uni 'late' as a Young UKIP rep. Son wasn't having of it it; didn't like either Farage or what he stood for.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,762
    IshmaelZ said:

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    FPT

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:
    This should bring a smile to all you United fans.



    Sorry not sorry.
    Outrageous. The man is Innocent until proven Guilty again.
    I would tentatively suggest that a trial where none of the accused were present or represented and none of the evidence was challenged is not particularly good evidence of anything.
    The Greek police are arseholes when I've seen them in action, which was in Athens 2007.

    If weren't for the fact there were so many British police out there in an official capacity it would have been much worse.

    They were indiscriminately striking people, including young children, then trying to arrest stricken people for being a nuisance is truly special.

    My 'favourite' was the Greek rozzer who grabbed official match tickets from Liverpool fans, hit them, then said they were trying to get in without tickets.
    Heysel.
    What about it?
    If I were a greek rozzer who'd heard about it, I'd behave like that. Sowing -> reaping.
    But that was over twenty years ago and in the previous six years Liverpool had been to two European finals without incident.

    Since readmittance the greatest violent seen involving fans from England featured Arsenal.
    Citation required.
    The 2000 UEFA Cup Final.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pfir10me2EQ
    And you think the causal factor there were the Arsenal fans? Given what happened at the semi final, I think the opponents were the key factor.
    It happened on Arsenal's watch, not all those fans convicted at Heysel were Liverpool fans, but Liverpool (rightly) took the blame for that disgrace.
    Of course, the blame was shared throughout English football in 1985. Perhaps that was understandable, but I can see why fans of certain clubs are still bitter about it.

    But as it happens I think Liverpool get too much of the blame for Heysel. My friends were there in 1980 for the Cup Winners Cup Final and they said the ground was falling to bits and completely unsuitable for a major European final. And the Juve fans didn't exactly cover themselves in glory in 1985.
    That, for me, says everything about football. 39 dead because the premises were a bit shabby.
    Didn't the rioting by the Liverpool fans cause the Juventus fans to flee, hence the deaths?
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,236
    All shall have geegaws.

    https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1298969308815646721?s=20

    Presumably a K would obviate the need for Nige exposing his unfeasibly large assets to the world.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,762
    I love this concise summary of our illustrious PM:

    https://twitter.com/NHSforPV/status/1298996180618158086?s=09
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,310
    kjh said:

    kinabalu said:

    kjh said:

    I am anti gongs for anything except valour and possibly voluntary work and there shouldn't be a difference between the type of gongs for 'important' people and and the plebs who are brave or give freely of their time for good causes.

    I am also anti Farage, BUT if gongs are going to be given out for your political impact (and there are a whole host of MPs and ex-MPs who most of us have never heard of who have got them) then Farage must come pretty high up on the list for deserving one (says through gritted teeth).
    Through teeth gritted even more tightly than yours, I agree. We are Leave Nation and Nigel Farage has moulded us more than any other single politician. He has devoted his life to his grand and (imo) toxic reactionary project and he has lived to see it realized. He took the brickbats in the early days, all the abuse, the derision, when the cause was no more than a niche for nutters, and he did not give up. He persisted and he came through. In June 2016 he came through. And I make no apology for breaking into song at this point because the song works perfectly. It's Manilow at his most poignant and uplifting. Nigel made it through the rain, and kept his world protected, he made it through the rain, he kept his point of view. Yes, he made it through the rain and finally found himself respected by the others who got rained on too. And made it through.

    A peerage is the very least this man deserves and it devalues the whole shebang that he has been denied one.
    Are you suggesting that politically he was in the wilderness? But somehow he made it through?

    Has he been had? Is he sad and blue? Would a gong make him feel shiny and new?
    I'm sorry I posted that now. I think you and kinabalu have lost the plot. I have vision of you doing a duet of a Manilow medley.
    :smile: - sorry.

    But in all seriousness I do agree that Farage merits a gong for his efforts.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,360

    DavidL said:

    I see the government is generously offering £13 per day to people having to self-isolate.

    On top of any other benefits that they are receiving.
    What other benefits?
    Well that will vary from case to case. They might be on SSP, UC, disability benefit, WFTC, whatever. The £13 a day will be in addition to that. Surely that is enough to cover any additional heating and delivery costs?
  • Options
    kjhkjh Posts: 10,668

    kjh said:

    kinabalu said:

    kjh said:

    I am anti gongs for anything except valour and possibly voluntary work and there shouldn't be a difference between the type of gongs for 'important' people and and the plebs who are brave or give freely of their time for good causes.

    I am also anti Farage, BUT if gongs are going to be given out for your political impact (and there are a whole host of MPs and ex-MPs who most of us have never heard of who have got them) then Farage must come pretty high up on the list for deserving one (says through gritted teeth).
    Through teeth gritted even more tightly than yours, I agree. We are Leave Nation and Nigel Farage has moulded us more than any other single politician. He has devoted his life to his grand and (imo) toxic reactionary project and he has lived to see it realized. He took the brickbats in the early days, all the abuse, the derision, when the cause was no more than a niche for nutters, and he did not give up. He persisted and he came through. In June 2016 he came through. And I make no apology for breaking into song at this point because the song works perfectly. It's Manilow at his most poignant and uplifting. Nigel made it through the rain, and kept his world protected, he made it through the rain, he kept his point of view. Yes, he made it through the rain and finally found himself respected by the others who got rained on too. And made it through.

    A peerage is the very least this man deserves and it devalues the whole shebang that he has been denied one.
    Are you suggesting that politically he was in the wilderness? But somehow he made it through?

    Has he been had? Is he sad and blue? Would a gong make him feel shiny and new?
    I'm sorry I posted that now. I think you and kinabalu have lost the plot. I have vision of you doing a duet of a Manilow medley.
    As Kinabalu recognised mine was Madonna. Though I dropped the lyrics that would make it overly obvious it was like a virgin.
    Sorry I can't tell the difference between Manilow and Madonna lyrics so it is all over my head I am afraid.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,310

    kinabalu said:

    kjh said:

    I am anti gongs for anything except valour and possibly voluntary work and there shouldn't be a difference between the type of gongs for 'important' people and and the plebs who are brave or give freely of their time for good causes.

    I am also anti Farage, BUT if gongs are going to be given out for your political impact (and there are a whole host of MPs and ex-MPs who most of us have never heard of who have got them) then Farage must come pretty high up on the list for deserving one (says through gritted teeth).
    Through teeth gritted even more tightly than yours, I agree. We are Leave Nation and Nigel Farage has moulded us more than any other single politician. He has devoted his life to his grand and (imo) toxic reactionary project and he has lived to see it realized. He took the brickbats in the early days, all the abuse, the derision, when the cause was no more than a niche for nutters, and he did not give up. He persisted and he came through. In June 2016 he came through. And I make no apology for breaking into song at this point because the song works perfectly. It's Manilow at his most poignant and uplifting. Nigel made it through the rain, and kept his world protected, he made it through the rain, he kept his point of view. Yes, he made it through the rain and finally found himself respected by the others who got rained on too. And made it through.

    A peerage is the very least this man deserves and it devalues the whole shebang that he has been denied one.
    Are you suggesting that politically he was in the wilderness? But somehow he made it through?

    Has he been had? Is he sad and blue? Would a gong make him feel shiny and new?
    One of my sons worked fairly near him on whichever Exchange it was back in the 90's. He was fanatically anti-EU then; tried to recruit my son, who was off to Uni 'late' as a Young UKIP rep. Son wasn't having of it it; didn't like either Farage or what he stood for.
    Lad's a credit to you, OKC, a credit.
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    nichomar said:

    nichomar said:

    Meanwhile maskless, free, prosperous Sweden is thinking of further relaxations....allowing gatherings of 500 seated people.

    Maybe their young people just don;t fancy a nite out, like they do in Spain. Or its more spaced out there innit.

    Or something.

    Sweden 25 people per km squared
    England 432 people per km squared

    There might be a difference there. See if you spot it.
    The comparison was between Sweden and Spain.

    Spain is pretty big too. And mask crazy. Ditto France.

    Why are they doing so badly when Sweden is doing so well?

    Yeh its them youngster going to dem nite clubs innit, before they was closed weeks ago.

    or something.
    Stupidly night bars with disco music opened up at the end of May (I think) the rules were in place and have widely been ignored despite hundreds of fines being imposed. They are all shut again since 17/8 except where idiot judges have reversed the shutdown. We’re in a period of mass movement of people as Madrid and Murcia second home owners head for the coast meeting up with friends not seen for a year, lots of hugs and kisses and un distanced ad hoc parties on the terrace. There are reasons for the outbreaks, they could have been minimized if people had obeyed the rules, worn their masks and kept two meters apart but they didn’t.
    Yebbut they do all that in Sweden too but on a grander scale because there are no masks.

    Something does not add up.
    I have no knowledge of Swedish nightlife or family/friends get togethers but I can’t really imagine it’s similar to Spain, not heard of anyone going to Sweden for a stag night.
    This paper is worth a look:

    "The existing literature has concluded that NPI policy [non-pharma interventions] and social distancing have been essential to reducing the spread of COVID-19 and the number of deaths due to this deadly pandemic. The stylized facts established in this paper challenge this conclusion."

    https://www.nber.org/papers/w27719.pdf

    The death rate graphs between different countries seem to show similar patterns.
    This paper makes zero sense.

    Here is the great state of Georgia's death chart



    it looks absolutely nothing like the characterisation in the paper.
  • Options
    Nigelb said:
    And still you have some here saying Biden needs to "stop the violence" when he's not the one in office.

    What is Biden meant to say to stop a juvenile white supremacist, 'blue lives matter' fanatic armed with an illegal firearm from crossing state lines then killing multiple people?

    Or is it a case of there's "good people on both sides"?
  • Options
    kjhkjh Posts: 10,668
    kinabalu said:

    kjh said:

    kinabalu said:

    kjh said:

    I am anti gongs for anything except valour and possibly voluntary work and there shouldn't be a difference between the type of gongs for 'important' people and and the plebs who are brave or give freely of their time for good causes.

    I am also anti Farage, BUT if gongs are going to be given out for your political impact (and there are a whole host of MPs and ex-MPs who most of us have never heard of who have got them) then Farage must come pretty high up on the list for deserving one (says through gritted teeth).
    Through teeth gritted even more tightly than yours, I agree. We are Leave Nation and Nigel Farage has moulded us more than any other single politician. He has devoted his life to his grand and (imo) toxic reactionary project and he has lived to see it realized. He took the brickbats in the early days, all the abuse, the derision, when the cause was no more than a niche for nutters, and he did not give up. He persisted and he came through. In June 2016 he came through. And I make no apology for breaking into song at this point because the song works perfectly. It's Manilow at his most poignant and uplifting. Nigel made it through the rain, and kept his world protected, he made it through the rain, he kept his point of view. Yes, he made it through the rain and finally found himself respected by the others who got rained on too. And made it through.

    A peerage is the very least this man deserves and it devalues the whole shebang that he has been denied one.
    Are you suggesting that politically he was in the wilderness? But somehow he made it through?

    Has he been had? Is he sad and blue? Would a gong make him feel shiny and new?
    I'm sorry I posted that now. I think you and kinabalu have lost the plot. I have vision of you doing a duet of a Manilow medley.
    :smile: - sorry.

    But in all seriousness I do agree that Farage merits a gong for his efforts.
    I know. Annoying isn't it.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,236

    Nigelb said:
    And still you have some here saying Biden needs to "stop the violence" when he's not the one in office.

    What is Biden meant to say to stop a juvenile white supremacist, 'blue lives matter' fanatic armed with an illegal firearm from crossing state lines then killing multiple people?

    Or is it a case of there's "good people on both sides"?
    It looks like at least one politician had some influence over the shooter.

    'The Kenosha Shooting Suspect Was In The Front Row Of A Trump Rally In January'

    https://tinyurl.com/y3e56rg9

  • Options

    Grade A Pillock.....

    https://twitter.com/DailyMailUK/status/1298966004756877313?s=20

    I wonder what (if any) sanction he'll face?

    Errr why did they let everyone else fly?

    They had been in an enclosed area for a short period with someone who has tested positive.

    The rest of the passengers should be in quarantine.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,310

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kjh said:

    I am anti gongs for anything except valour and possibly voluntary work and there shouldn't be a difference between the type of gongs for 'important' people and and the plebs who are brave or give freely of their time for good causes.

    I am also anti Farage, BUT if gongs are going to be given out for your political impact (and there are a whole host of MPs and ex-MPs who most of us have never heard of who have got them) then Farage must come pretty high up on the list for deserving one (says through gritted teeth).
    Through teeth gritted even more tightly than yours, I agree. We are Leave Nation and Nigel Farage has moulded us more than any other single politician. He has devoted his life to his grand and (imo) toxic reactionary project and he has lived to see it realized. He took the brickbats in the early days, all the abuse, the derision, when the cause was no more than a niche for nutters, and he did not give up. He persisted and he came through. In June 2016 he came through. And I make no apology for breaking into song at this point because the song works perfectly. It's Manilow at his most poignant and uplifting. Nigel made it through the rain, and kept his world protected, he made it through the rain, he kept his point of view. Yes, he made it through the rain and finally found himself respected by the others who got rained on too. And made it through.

    A peerage is the very least this man deserves and it devalues the whole shebang that he has been denied one.
    Are you suggesting that politically he was in the wilderness? But somehow he made it through?

    Has he been had? Is he sad and blue? Would a gong make him feel shiny and new?
    Sad and blue about being had by Johnson, yes that works too.

    But Farage is more of a Manilow than a Madonna sort of bloke to me.
    Well his career as an MP had something of the Bermuda Triangle about it. Lost without trace.
    :smile: - very little that one can't apply some Manilow to. Enormous catalogue.

    But anyway, let's not get too silly. Farage is no joke to be lightened and trivialized with Barry Manilow refs. The dreadful man has landed us with the horror of Brexit and the only question still outstanding is not could it be tragic but just how tragic it will be.
  • Options
    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    kjh said:

    kinabalu said:

    kjh said:

    kinabalu said:

    kjh said:

    I am anti gongs for anything except valour and possibly voluntary work and there shouldn't be a difference between the type of gongs for 'important' people and and the plebs who are brave or give freely of their time for good causes.

    I am also anti Farage, BUT if gongs are going to be given out for your political impact (and there are a whole host of MPs and ex-MPs who most of us have never heard of who have got them) then Farage must come pretty high up on the list for deserving one (says through gritted teeth).
    Through teeth gritted even more tightly than yours, I agree. We are Leave Nation and Nigel Farage has moulded us more than any other single politician. He has devoted his life to his grand and (imo) toxic reactionary project and he has lived to see it realized. He took the brickbats in the early days, all the abuse, the derision, when the cause was no more than a niche for nutters, and he did not give up. He persisted and he came through. In June 2016 he came through. And I make no apology for breaking into song at this point because the song works perfectly. It's Manilow at his most poignant and uplifting. Nigel made it through the rain, and kept his world protected, he made it through the rain, he kept his point of view. Yes, he made it through the rain and finally found himself respected by the others who got rained on too. And made it through.

    A peerage is the very least this man deserves and it devalues the whole shebang that he has been denied one.
    Are you suggesting that politically he was in the wilderness? But somehow he made it through?

    Has he been had? Is he sad and blue? Would a gong make him feel shiny and new?
    I'm sorry I posted that now. I think you and kinabalu have lost the plot. I have vision of you doing a duet of a Manilow medley.
    :smile: - sorry.

    But in all seriousness I do agree that Farage merits a gong for his efforts.
    I know. Annoying isn't it.
    Denying him one - if that is happening - almost suggests that brexit might actually be a bit shit. Unthinkably.
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,195

    Grade A Pillock.....

    https://twitter.com/DailyMailUK/status/1298966004756877313?s=20

    I wonder what (if any) sanction he'll face?

    Errr why did they let everyone else fly?

    They had been in an enclosed area for a short period with someone who has tested positive.

    The rest of the passengers should be in quarantine.
    Would you like to kick everyone off and lock them up? I wouldn't want to be the one to do that (without riot police available).
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,556
    edited August 2020
    tlg86 said:

    Grade A Pillock.....

    https://twitter.com/DailyMailUK/status/1298966004756877313?s=20

    I wonder what (if any) sanction he'll face?

    Errr why did they let everyone else fly?

    They had been in an enclosed area for a short period with someone who has tested positive.

    The rest of the passengers should be in quarantine.
    Would you like to kick everyone off and lock them up? I wouldn't want to be the one to do that (without riot police available).
    It's simple, you either wait for the rozzers, or you cancel the flight, tell everyone to isolate, and tell them that they are being added to the no fly list for a fortnight.
  • Options
    IshmaelZ said:

    kjh said:

    kinabalu said:

    kjh said:

    kinabalu said:

    kjh said:

    I am anti gongs for anything except valour and possibly voluntary work and there shouldn't be a difference between the type of gongs for 'important' people and and the plebs who are brave or give freely of their time for good causes.

    I am also anti Farage, BUT if gongs are going to be given out for your political impact (and there are a whole host of MPs and ex-MPs who most of us have never heard of who have got them) then Farage must come pretty high up on the list for deserving one (says through gritted teeth).
    Through teeth gritted even more tightly than yours, I agree. We are Leave Nation and Nigel Farage has moulded us more than any other single politician. He has devoted his life to his grand and (imo) toxic reactionary project and he has lived to see it realized. He took the brickbats in the early days, all the abuse, the derision, when the cause was no more than a niche for nutters, and he did not give up. He persisted and he came through. In June 2016 he came through. And I make no apology for breaking into song at this point because the song works perfectly. It's Manilow at his most poignant and uplifting. Nigel made it through the rain, and kept his world protected, he made it through the rain, he kept his point of view. Yes, he made it through the rain and finally found himself respected by the others who got rained on too. And made it through.

    A peerage is the very least this man deserves and it devalues the whole shebang that he has been denied one.
    Are you suggesting that politically he was in the wilderness? But somehow he made it through?

    Has he been had? Is he sad and blue? Would a gong make him feel shiny and new?
    I'm sorry I posted that now. I think you and kinabalu have lost the plot. I have vision of you doing a duet of a Manilow medley.
    :smile: - sorry.

    But in all seriousness I do agree that Farage merits a gong for his efforts.
    I know. Annoying isn't it.
    Denying him one - if that is happening - almost suggests that brexit might actually be a bit shit. Unthinkably.
    Not really.

    Though is he being denied one? Has he put himself forward for one? Surely as a party leader he'd need to nominate himself to be considered as a Lord for his party? Corbyn chose who to honour as a Labour Lord not the Government.
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,785

    Grade A Pillock.....

    https://twitter.com/DailyMailUK/status/1298966004756877313?s=20

    I wonder what (if any) sanction he'll face?

    Errr why did they let everyone else fly?

    They had been in an enclosed area for a short period with someone who has tested positive.

    The rest of the passengers should be in quarantine.
    The muppet was wearing a mask and had only been onboard for 10 minutes - but they should have quarantined those in his immediate area, say 3 rows fore & aft.
  • Options
    kjhkjh Posts: 10,668
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kjh said:

    I am anti gongs for anything except valour and possibly voluntary work and there shouldn't be a difference between the type of gongs for 'important' people and and the plebs who are brave or give freely of their time for good causes.

    I am also anti Farage, BUT if gongs are going to be given out for your political impact (and there are a whole host of MPs and ex-MPs who most of us have never heard of who have got them) then Farage must come pretty high up on the list for deserving one (says through gritted teeth).
    Through teeth gritted even more tightly than yours, I agree. We are Leave Nation and Nigel Farage has moulded us more than any other single politician. He has devoted his life to his grand and (imo) toxic reactionary project and he has lived to see it realized. He took the brickbats in the early days, all the abuse, the derision, when the cause was no more than a niche for nutters, and he did not give up. He persisted and he came through. In June 2016 he came through. And I make no apology for breaking into song at this point because the song works perfectly. It's Manilow at his most poignant and uplifting. Nigel made it through the rain, and kept his world protected, he made it through the rain, he kept his point of view. Yes, he made it through the rain and finally found himself respected by the others who got rained on too. And made it through.

    A peerage is the very least this man deserves and it devalues the whole shebang that he has been denied one.
    Are you suggesting that politically he was in the wilderness? But somehow he made it through?

    Has he been had? Is he sad and blue? Would a gong make him feel shiny and new?
    Sad and blue about being had by Johnson, yes that works too.

    But Farage is more of a Manilow than a Madonna sort of bloke to me.
    Well his career as an MP had something of the Bermuda Triangle about it. Lost without trace.
    :smile: - very little that one can't apply some Manilow to. Enormous catalogue.

    But anyway, let's not get too silly. Farage is no joke to be lightened and trivialized with Barry Manilow refs. The dreadful man has landed us with the horror of Brexit and the only question still outstanding is not could it be tragic but just how tragic it will be.
    Is this another lyric reference? If so stop it. I have learnt more today about BM than I ever wanted to.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,762
    tlg86 said:

    Grade A Pillock.....

    https://twitter.com/DailyMailUK/status/1298966004756877313?s=20

    I wonder what (if any) sanction he'll face?

    Errr why did they let everyone else fly?

    They had been in an enclosed area for a short period with someone who has tested positive.

    The rest of the passengers should be in quarantine.
    Would you like to kick everyone off and lock them up? I wouldn't want to be the one to do that (without riot police available).
    It says in the article that he was wearing a mask, and only onboard for 10 minutes, all the passengers and crew were wearing masks so safe to travel.

    What a plonker though. There is a stupid, selfish minority that will cause problems for us all
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,985
    Oxford's in the Deep South? Would explain a thing or two.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,236
    More the Not Southern softies/Southern softies line.
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,785
    I'd draw the line below Liverpool/Manchester/Sheffield and above Nottingham.
  • Options

    Grade A Pillock.....

    https://twitter.com/DailyMailUK/status/1298966004756877313?s=20

    I wonder what (if any) sanction he'll face?

    Errr why did they let everyone else fly?

    They had been in an enclosed area for a short period with someone who has tested positive.

    The rest of the passengers should be in quarantine.
    The muppet was wearing a mask and had only been onboard for 10 minutes - but they should have quarantined those in his immediate area, say 3 rows fore & aft.
    That works.

    We imprison people (after a trial) with AIDS who knowingly have unprotected sex with people who don't know the first person had AIDS, I think we should start doing the same with people who break quarantine like this.
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,902

    I'd draw the line below Liverpool/Manchester/Sheffield and above Nottingham.
    Completely wrong. The line is the M4.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,762

    I'd draw the line below Liverpool/Manchester/Sheffield and above Nottingham.
    The river Trent is the border.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,116

    I'd draw the line below Liverpool/Manchester/Sheffield and above Nottingham.
    That would put Birmingham in the South?
  • Options
    Jonathan said:

    I'd draw the line below Liverpool/Manchester/Sheffield and above Nottingham.
    Completely wrong. The line is the M4.
    https://twitter.com/AlastairMeeks/status/1299001940387348484
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,389
    kjh said:

    kinabalu said:

    kjh said:

    kinabalu said:

    kjh said:

    I am anti gongs for anything except valour and possibly voluntary work and there shouldn't be a difference between the type of gongs for 'important' people and and the plebs who are brave or give freely of their time for good causes.

    I am also anti Farage, BUT if gongs are going to be given out for your political impact (and there are a whole host of MPs and ex-MPs who most of us have never heard of who have got them) then Farage must come pretty high up on the list for deserving one (says through gritted teeth).
    Through teeth gritted even more tightly than yours, I agree. We are Leave Nation and Nigel Farage has moulded us more than any other single politician. He has devoted his life to his grand and (imo) toxic reactionary project and he has lived to see it realized. He took the brickbats in the early days, all the abuse, the derision, when the cause was no more than a niche for nutters, and he did not give up. He persisted and he came through. In June 2016 he came through. And I make no apology for breaking into song at this point because the song works perfectly. It's Manilow at his most poignant and uplifting. Nigel made it through the rain, and kept his world protected, he made it through the rain, he kept his point of view. Yes, he made it through the rain and finally found himself respected by the others who got rained on too. And made it through.

    A peerage is the very least this man deserves and it devalues the whole shebang that he has been denied one.
    Are you suggesting that politically he was in the wilderness? But somehow he made it through?

    Has he been had? Is he sad and blue? Would a gong make him feel shiny and new?
    I'm sorry I posted that now. I think you and kinabalu have lost the plot. I have vision of you doing a duet of a Manilow medley.
    :smile: - sorry.

    But in all seriousness I do agree that Farage merits a gong for his efforts.
    I know. Annoying isn't it.
    I think we've done this before. When I pointed out that Farage is arguably the most successful politician of our times I was met with derision while the other names given to refute the claim were, IIRC, Nelson Mandela, Ronald Reagan, Gerry Adams and Margaret Thatcher.
  • Options
    Honestly anyone who thinks Yorkshire is in the South is clearly a Russian troll.
  • Options
    TOPPING said:

    kjh said:

    kinabalu said:

    kjh said:

    kinabalu said:

    kjh said:

    I am anti gongs for anything except valour and possibly voluntary work and there shouldn't be a difference between the type of gongs for 'important' people and and the plebs who are brave or give freely of their time for good causes.

    I am also anti Farage, BUT if gongs are going to be given out for your political impact (and there are a whole host of MPs and ex-MPs who most of us have never heard of who have got them) then Farage must come pretty high up on the list for deserving one (says through gritted teeth).
    Through teeth gritted even more tightly than yours, I agree. We are Leave Nation and Nigel Farage has moulded us more than any other single politician. He has devoted his life to his grand and (imo) toxic reactionary project and he has lived to see it realized. He took the brickbats in the early days, all the abuse, the derision, when the cause was no more than a niche for nutters, and he did not give up. He persisted and he came through. In June 2016 he came through. And I make no apology for breaking into song at this point because the song works perfectly. It's Manilow at his most poignant and uplifting. Nigel made it through the rain, and kept his world protected, he made it through the rain, he kept his point of view. Yes, he made it through the rain and finally found himself respected by the others who got rained on too. And made it through.

    A peerage is the very least this man deserves and it devalues the whole shebang that he has been denied one.
    Are you suggesting that politically he was in the wilderness? But somehow he made it through?

    Has he been had? Is he sad and blue? Would a gong make him feel shiny and new?
    I'm sorry I posted that now. I think you and kinabalu have lost the plot. I have vision of you doing a duet of a Manilow medley.
    :smile: - sorry.

    But in all seriousness I do agree that Farage merits a gong for his efforts.
    I know. Annoying isn't it.
    I think we've done this before. When I pointed out that Farage is arguably the most successful politician of our times I was met with derision while the other names given to refute the claim were, IIRC, Nelson Mandela, Ronald Reagan, Gerry Adams and Margaret Thatcher.
    Boris Johnson is more successful.
  • Options

    Nigelb said:
    What is Biden meant to say to stop a juvenile white supremacist, 'blue lives matter' fanatic armed with an illegal firearm from crossing state lines then killing multiple people?
    For a white supremacist fanatic, he doesn't seem to have done much damage in the two hours he was guarding a dealership, or even in the six minutes between being ordered away from the dealership by the police, and reappearing being chased by a mob of people both carrying guns and firing them into the air, before surrendering himself to police with his hands in the air (not with his finger on the trigger, as claimed earlier on here).
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,116

    TOPPING said:

    kjh said:

    kinabalu said:

    kjh said:

    kinabalu said:

    kjh said:

    I am anti gongs for anything except valour and possibly voluntary work and there shouldn't be a difference between the type of gongs for 'important' people and and the plebs who are brave or give freely of their time for good causes.

    I am also anti Farage, BUT if gongs are going to be given out for your political impact (and there are a whole host of MPs and ex-MPs who most of us have never heard of who have got them) then Farage must come pretty high up on the list for deserving one (says through gritted teeth).
    Through teeth gritted even more tightly than yours, I agree. We are Leave Nation and Nigel Farage has moulded us more than any other single politician. He has devoted his life to his grand and (imo) toxic reactionary project and he has lived to see it realized. He took the brickbats in the early days, all the abuse, the derision, when the cause was no more than a niche for nutters, and he did not give up. He persisted and he came through. In June 2016 he came through. And I make no apology for breaking into song at this point because the song works perfectly. It's Manilow at his most poignant and uplifting. Nigel made it through the rain, and kept his world protected, he made it through the rain, he kept his point of view. Yes, he made it through the rain and finally found himself respected by the others who got rained on too. And made it through.

    A peerage is the very least this man deserves and it devalues the whole shebang that he has been denied one.
    Are you suggesting that politically he was in the wilderness? But somehow he made it through?

    Has he been had? Is he sad and blue? Would a gong make him feel shiny and new?
    I'm sorry I posted that now. I think you and kinabalu have lost the plot. I have vision of you doing a duet of a Manilow medley.
    :smile: - sorry.

    But in all seriousness I do agree that Farage merits a gong for his efforts.
    I know. Annoying isn't it.
    I think we've done this before. When I pointed out that Farage is arguably the most successful politician of our times I was met with derision while the other names given to refute the claim were, IIRC, Nelson Mandela, Ronald Reagan, Gerry Adams and Margaret Thatcher.
    Boris Johnson is more successful.
    He's achieved higher office, but has he achieved any of his political aims? Does he even have any?
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,879
    tlg86 said:
    In fairness that's North-British in the specific sense of the period - the new pan-British name for Scotland, jsut as South Britain was for England. Trouble was the southerners didn't play ball.
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,902

    Jonathan said:

    I'd draw the line below Liverpool/Manchester/Sheffield and above Nottingham.
    Completely wrong. The line is the M4.
    https://twitter.com/AlastairMeeks/status/1299001940387348484
    I expect this is a minority view, but the North actually starts in Guildford. The dividing line is marked precisely by two high streets that run in parallel. One is clearly in the north, the other in the south. The good stuff is certainly to be found south of Guildford.
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,902

    TOPPING said:

    kjh said:

    kinabalu said:

    kjh said:

    kinabalu said:

    kjh said:

    I am anti gongs for anything except valour and possibly voluntary work and there shouldn't be a difference between the type of gongs for 'important' people and and the plebs who are brave or give freely of their time for good causes.

    I am also anti Farage, BUT if gongs are going to be given out for your political impact (and there are a whole host of MPs and ex-MPs who most of us have never heard of who have got them) then Farage must come pretty high up on the list for deserving one (says through gritted teeth).
    Through teeth gritted even more tightly than yours, I agree. We are Leave Nation and Nigel Farage has moulded us more than any other single politician. He has devoted his life to his grand and (imo) toxic reactionary project and he has lived to see it realized. He took the brickbats in the early days, all the abuse, the derision, when the cause was no more than a niche for nutters, and he did not give up. He persisted and he came through. In June 2016 he came through. And I make no apology for breaking into song at this point because the song works perfectly. It's Manilow at his most poignant and uplifting. Nigel made it through the rain, and kept his world protected, he made it through the rain, he kept his point of view. Yes, he made it through the rain and finally found himself respected by the others who got rained on too. And made it through.

    A peerage is the very least this man deserves and it devalues the whole shebang that he has been denied one.
    Are you suggesting that politically he was in the wilderness? But somehow he made it through?

    Has he been had? Is he sad and blue? Would a gong make him feel shiny and new?
    I'm sorry I posted that now. I think you and kinabalu have lost the plot. I have vision of you doing a duet of a Manilow medley.
    :smile: - sorry.

    But in all seriousness I do agree that Farage merits a gong for his efforts.
    I know. Annoying isn't it.
    I think we've done this before. When I pointed out that Farage is arguably the most successful politician of our times I was met with derision while the other names given to refute the claim were, IIRC, Nelson Mandela, Ronald Reagan, Gerry Adams and Margaret Thatcher.
    Boris Johnson is more successful.
    He's achieved higher office, but has he achieved any of his political aims? Does he even have any?
    He has achieved all his aims, to get on the telly and become PM. He’s done.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,389
    edited August 2020

    TOPPING said:

    kjh said:

    kinabalu said:

    kjh said:

    kinabalu said:

    kjh said:

    I am anti gongs for anything except valour and possibly voluntary work and there shouldn't be a difference between the type of gongs for 'important' people and and the plebs who are brave or give freely of their time for good causes.

    I am also anti Farage, BUT if gongs are going to be given out for your political impact (and there are a whole host of MPs and ex-MPs who most of us have never heard of who have got them) then Farage must come pretty high up on the list for deserving one (says through gritted teeth).
    Through teeth gritted even more tightly than yours, I agree. We are Leave Nation and Nigel Farage has moulded us more than any other single politician. He has devoted his life to his grand and (imo) toxic reactionary project and he has lived to see it realized. He took the brickbats in the early days, all the abuse, the derision, when the cause was no more than a niche for nutters, and he did not give up. He persisted and he came through. In June 2016 he came through. And I make no apology for breaking into song at this point because the song works perfectly. It's Manilow at his most poignant and uplifting. Nigel made it through the rain, and kept his world protected, he made it through the rain, he kept his point of view. Yes, he made it through the rain and finally found himself respected by the others who got rained on too. And made it through.

    A peerage is the very least this man deserves and it devalues the whole shebang that he has been denied one.
    Are you suggesting that politically he was in the wilderness? But somehow he made it through?

    Has he been had? Is he sad and blue? Would a gong make him feel shiny and new?
    I'm sorry I posted that now. I think you and kinabalu have lost the plot. I have vision of you doing a duet of a Manilow medley.
    :smile: - sorry.

    But in all seriousness I do agree that Farage merits a gong for his efforts.
    I know. Annoying isn't it.
    I think we've done this before. When I pointed out that Farage is arguably the most successful politician of our times I was met with derision while the other names given to refute the claim were, IIRC, Nelson Mandela, Ronald Reagan, Gerry Adams and Margaret Thatcher.
    Boris Johnson is more successful.
    Nah. He's an opportunist. What, save achieving power, has Boris consistently campaigned for the last 20 years (and more) for? Fuck all.

    Edit: he's an opportunist twat.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,116
    Jonathan said:

    TOPPING said:

    kjh said:

    kinabalu said:

    kjh said:

    kinabalu said:

    kjh said:

    I am anti gongs for anything except valour and possibly voluntary work and there shouldn't be a difference between the type of gongs for 'important' people and and the plebs who are brave or give freely of their time for good causes.

    I am also anti Farage, BUT if gongs are going to be given out for your political impact (and there are a whole host of MPs and ex-MPs who most of us have never heard of who have got them) then Farage must come pretty high up on the list for deserving one (says through gritted teeth).
    Through teeth gritted even more tightly than yours, I agree. We are Leave Nation and Nigel Farage has moulded us more than any other single politician. He has devoted his life to his grand and (imo) toxic reactionary project and he has lived to see it realized. He took the brickbats in the early days, all the abuse, the derision, when the cause was no more than a niche for nutters, and he did not give up. He persisted and he came through. In June 2016 he came through. And I make no apology for breaking into song at this point because the song works perfectly. It's Manilow at his most poignant and uplifting. Nigel made it through the rain, and kept his world protected, he made it through the rain, he kept his point of view. Yes, he made it through the rain and finally found himself respected by the others who got rained on too. And made it through.

    A peerage is the very least this man deserves and it devalues the whole shebang that he has been denied one.
    Are you suggesting that politically he was in the wilderness? But somehow he made it through?

    Has he been had? Is he sad and blue? Would a gong make him feel shiny and new?
    I'm sorry I posted that now. I think you and kinabalu have lost the plot. I have vision of you doing a duet of a Manilow medley.
    :smile: - sorry.

    But in all seriousness I do agree that Farage merits a gong for his efforts.
    I know. Annoying isn't it.
    I think we've done this before. When I pointed out that Farage is arguably the most successful politician of our times I was met with derision while the other names given to refute the claim were, IIRC, Nelson Mandela, Ronald Reagan, Gerry Adams and Margaret Thatcher.
    Boris Johnson is more successful.
    He's achieved higher office, but has he achieved any of his political aims? Does he even have any?
    He has achieved all his aims, to get on the telly and become PM. He’s done.
    That makes him a successful celebrity, not a successful politician.
  • Options
    As the Guardian comments today politics is weird just now, and to be honest I agree

    Boris has been found out as wholly unsuitable for this pandemic and he is in real danger of his backbenchers calling time on him. I cannot imagine their mail bags (and e mails) are anything but a nightmare to deal with and Boris's star quality has disappeared through his illness and the enormity of trying to fight the pandemic

    Boris needs percentages in his favour now more than at anytime as he enters the stormy waters of a no deal brexit and they are wholly absent

    However, I do not have confidence that Starmer would be in any better a position and as for Ed Davey I just do not see him cutting through at all

    I genuinely hope the conservative party wake up to the dangers ahead and let Boris know that he is on borrowed time and that he is not in anything like the position he and Cummings may think he is

    The weird part is that in certain circumstances I could even be tempted to look at Starmer though he is not there yet by any means, and a first condition would be for him to reject Corbyn and his cabal from the labour party

    It gives me no pleasure to write this and Boris may prove me wrong, but I am not holding my breath
  • Options

    Nigelb said:
    What is Biden meant to say to stop a juvenile white supremacist, 'blue lives matter' fanatic armed with an illegal firearm from crossing state lines then killing multiple people?
    For a white supremacist fanatic, he doesn't seem to have done much damage in the two hours he was guarding a dealership, or even in the six minutes between being ordered away from the dealership by the police, and reappearing being chased by a mob of people both carrying guns and firing them into the air, before surrendering himself to police with his hands in the air (not with his finger on the trigger, as claimed earlier on here).
    So after committing multiple felonies but prior to shooting dead multiple people he didn't do much damage? Is that how it works in your eyes?

    Anders Breivik didn't do much damage prior to setting off a bomb in Oslo and then shooting 69 people - I guess he wasn't a fanatic either in your eyes?
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,389

    Nigelb said:
    What is Biden meant to say to stop a juvenile white supremacist, 'blue lives matter' fanatic armed with an illegal firearm from crossing state lines then killing multiple people?
    For a white supremacist fanatic, he doesn't seem to have done much damage in the two hours he was guarding a dealership, or even in the six minutes between being ordered away from the dealership by the police, and reappearing being chased by a mob of people both carrying guns and firing them into the air, before surrendering himself to police with his hands in the air (not with his finger on the trigger, as claimed earlier on here).
    So after committing multiple felonies but prior to shooting dead multiple people he didn't do much damage? Is that how it works in your eyes?

    Anders Breivik didn't do much damage prior to setting off a bomb in Oslo and then shooting 69 people - I guess he wasn't a fanatic either in your eyes?
    Great film, btw, did you see it?
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,310

    Nigelb said:
    And still you have some here saying Biden needs to "stop the violence" when he's not the one in office.

    What is Biden meant to say to stop a juvenile white supremacist, 'blue lives matter' fanatic armed with an illegal firearm from crossing state lines then killing multiple people?

    Or is it a case of there's "good people on both sides"?
    It looks like at least one politician had some influence over the shooter.

    'The Kenosha Shooting Suspect Was In The Front Row Of A Trump Rally In January'

    https://tinyurl.com/y3e56rg9
    Has there ever before in modern times been a US President whose rallies and rhetoric would be likely to feed rather than dampen a disturbed young person's budding white racism and desire to kill in its name? Surely not.

    Absolutely tragic and beyond sad. Not even old enough to vote.
  • Options
    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:
    What is Biden meant to say to stop a juvenile white supremacist, 'blue lives matter' fanatic armed with an illegal firearm from crossing state lines then killing multiple people?
    For a white supremacist fanatic, he doesn't seem to have done much damage in the two hours he was guarding a dealership, or even in the six minutes between being ordered away from the dealership by the police, and reappearing being chased by a mob of people both carrying guns and firing them into the air, before surrendering himself to police with his hands in the air (not with his finger on the trigger, as claimed earlier on here).
    So after committing multiple felonies but prior to shooting dead multiple people he didn't do much damage? Is that how it works in your eyes?

    Anders Breivik didn't do much damage prior to setting off a bomb in Oslo and then shooting 69 people - I guess he wasn't a fanatic either in your eyes?
    Great film, btw, did you see it?
    No, what film?
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,389

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:
    What is Biden meant to say to stop a juvenile white supremacist, 'blue lives matter' fanatic armed with an illegal firearm from crossing state lines then killing multiple people?
    For a white supremacist fanatic, he doesn't seem to have done much damage in the two hours he was guarding a dealership, or even in the six minutes between being ordered away from the dealership by the police, and reappearing being chased by a mob of people both carrying guns and firing them into the air, before surrendering himself to police with his hands in the air (not with his finger on the trigger, as claimed earlier on here).
    So after committing multiple felonies but prior to shooting dead multiple people he didn't do much damage? Is that how it works in your eyes?

    Anders Breivik didn't do much damage prior to setting off a bomb in Oslo and then shooting 69 people - I guess he wasn't a fanatic either in your eyes?
    Great film, btw, did you see it?
    No, what film?
    https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7280898/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_6
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,360

    Jonathan said:

    I'd draw the line below Liverpool/Manchester/Sheffield and above Nottingham.
    Completely wrong. The line is the M4.
    https://twitter.com/AlastairMeeks/status/1299001940387348484
    I think that particular N stands for North London. The perception that London is the entire world is...not entirely accurate. An N designation is useful because you then know that the comic strip in Private Eye is aimed at you but it has limited utility in terms of geography.
  • Options
    moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,244
    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    I'd draw the line below Liverpool/Manchester/Sheffield and above Nottingham.
    Completely wrong. The line is the M4.
    https://twitter.com/AlastairMeeks/status/1299001940387348484
    I expect this is a minority view, but the North actually starts in Guildford. The dividing line is marked precisely by two high streets that run in parallel. One is clearly in the north, the other in the south. The good stuff is certainly to be found south of Guildford.
    Laser quest AND Burger King
  • Options
    ChelyabinskChelyabinsk Posts: 488
    edited August 2020

    Nigelb said:
    What is Biden meant to say to stop a juvenile white supremacist, 'blue lives matter' fanatic armed with an illegal firearm from crossing state lines then killing multiple people?
    For a white supremacist fanatic, he doesn't seem to have done much damage in the two hours he was guarding a dealership, or even in the six minutes between being ordered away from the dealership by the police, and reappearing being chased by a mob of people both carrying guns and firing them into the air, before surrendering himself to police with his hands in the air (not with his finger on the trigger, as claimed earlier on here).
    So after committing multiple felonies but prior to shooting dead multiple people he didn't do much damage? Is that how it works in your eyes?
    If you're a white supremacist fanatic who sets out to kill people, you act like Breivik. If you hang around outside a dealership for two hours, run away from a mob rather than open fire into it, then shoot three people - one running at you as gunshots are fired, a second hitting you with a skateboard while you're on the ground, and a third drawing an illegal firearm after approaching you with their hands up - before immediately surrendering yourself to police, you may just be a seventeen year old who wanted to LARP as police one night and bit off more than you could chew.
  • Options
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:
    What is Biden meant to say to stop a juvenile white supremacist, 'blue lives matter' fanatic armed with an illegal firearm from crossing state lines then killing multiple people?
    For a white supremacist fanatic, he doesn't seem to have done much damage in the two hours he was guarding a dealership, or even in the six minutes between being ordered away from the dealership by the police, and reappearing being chased by a mob of people both carrying guns and firing them into the air, before surrendering himself to police with his hands in the air (not with his finger on the trigger, as claimed earlier on here).
    So after committing multiple felonies but prior to shooting dead multiple people he didn't do much damage? Is that how it works in your eyes?

    Anders Breivik didn't do much damage prior to setting off a bomb in Oslo and then shooting 69 people - I guess he wasn't a fanatic either in your eyes?
    Great film, btw, did you see it?
    No, what film?
    https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7280898/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_6
    I hadn't heard of that, it looks interesting. Is it on a streaming service or something?
  • Options
    kjhkjh Posts: 10,668
    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    I'd draw the line below Liverpool/Manchester/Sheffield and above Nottingham.
    Completely wrong. The line is the M4.
    https://twitter.com/AlastairMeeks/status/1299001940387348484
    I expect this is a minority view, but the North actually starts in Guildford. The dividing line is marked precisely by two high streets that run in parallel. One is clearly in the north, the other in the south. The good stuff is certainly to be found south of Guildford.
    Good grief you have just put me in the North of England by a few hundred metres. Who would have thought it.
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,389

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:
    What is Biden meant to say to stop a juvenile white supremacist, 'blue lives matter' fanatic armed with an illegal firearm from crossing state lines then killing multiple people?
    For a white supremacist fanatic, he doesn't seem to have done much damage in the two hours he was guarding a dealership, or even in the six minutes between being ordered away from the dealership by the police, and reappearing being chased by a mob of people both carrying guns and firing them into the air, before surrendering himself to police with his hands in the air (not with his finger on the trigger, as claimed earlier on here).
    So after committing multiple felonies but prior to shooting dead multiple people he didn't do much damage? Is that how it works in your eyes?

    Anders Breivik didn't do much damage prior to setting off a bomb in Oslo and then shooting 69 people - I guess he wasn't a fanatic either in your eyes?
    Great film, btw, did you see it?
    No, what film?
    https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7280898/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_6
    I hadn't heard of that, it looks interesting. Is it on a streaming service or something?
    Netflix I think.

    It's pretty harrowing but well worth all 2.5hrs of it.
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    Nigelb said:
    What is Biden meant to say to stop a juvenile white supremacist, 'blue lives matter' fanatic armed with an illegal firearm from crossing state lines then killing multiple people?
    For a white supremacist fanatic, he doesn't seem to have done much damage in the two hours he was guarding a dealership, or even in the six minutes between being ordered away from the dealership by the police, and reappearing being chased by a mob of people both carrying guns and firing them into the air, before surrendering himself to police with his hands in the air (not with his finger on the trigger, as claimed earlier on here).
    So after committing multiple felonies but prior to shooting dead multiple people he didn't do much damage? Is that how it works in your eyes?
    If you're a white supremacist fanatic who sets out to kill people, you act like Breivik. If you hang around outside a dealership for two hours, run away from a mob rather than open fire into it, then shoot three people - one running at you as gunshots are fired, a second hitting you with a skateboard, and a third drawing an illegal firearm after approaching you with their hands up - before immediately surrender yourself to police, you may just be a seventeen year old who wanted to LARP as police one night and bit off more than you could chew.
    This may surprise you but a great many murderers, even fanatical murderers, kill people when they perceive the opportunity is right to do so and don't simply go out premeditated shooting like its a game of Grand Theft Auto.

    I'm sure if a Black Lives Matter protestor had shot dead multiple people you'd be on here sympathising that maye they had just bitten off more than they could chew too. Or maybe not.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,310
    Leicester Forest M1 services. When I get north of that my whole persona changes. It can be quite disconcerting for any passengers.
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,236
    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:
    And still you have some here saying Biden needs to "stop the violence" when he's not the one in office.

    What is Biden meant to say to stop a juvenile white supremacist, 'blue lives matter' fanatic armed with an illegal firearm from crossing state lines then killing multiple people?

    Or is it a case of there's "good people on both sides"?
    It looks like at least one politician had some influence over the shooter.

    'The Kenosha Shooting Suspect Was In The Front Row Of A Trump Rally In January'

    https://tinyurl.com/y3e56rg9
    Has there ever before in modern times been a US President whose rallies and rhetoric would be likely to feed rather than dampen a disturbed young person's budding white racism and desire to kill in its name? Surely not.

    Absolutely tragic and beyond sad. Not even old enough to vote.
    Imagine the furore if some soon-to-be radicalised rioter had been in the crowd at a Biden glad handing session.

    'Our guy only killed people, possibly in self defence. Your guy....DAMAGED PROPERTY!!!'
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,310
    kjh said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kjh said:

    I am anti gongs for anything except valour and possibly voluntary work and there shouldn't be a difference between the type of gongs for 'important' people and and the plebs who are brave or give freely of their time for good causes.

    I am also anti Farage, BUT if gongs are going to be given out for your political impact (and there are a whole host of MPs and ex-MPs who most of us have never heard of who have got them) then Farage must come pretty high up on the list for deserving one (says through gritted teeth).
    Through teeth gritted even more tightly than yours, I agree. We are Leave Nation and Nigel Farage has moulded us more than any other single politician. He has devoted his life to his grand and (imo) toxic reactionary project and he has lived to see it realized. He took the brickbats in the early days, all the abuse, the derision, when the cause was no more than a niche for nutters, and he did not give up. He persisted and he came through. In June 2016 he came through. And I make no apology for breaking into song at this point because the song works perfectly. It's Manilow at his most poignant and uplifting. Nigel made it through the rain, and kept his world protected, he made it through the rain, he kept his point of view. Yes, he made it through the rain and finally found himself respected by the others who got rained on too. And made it through.

    A peerage is the very least this man deserves and it devalues the whole shebang that he has been denied one.
    Are you suggesting that politically he was in the wilderness? But somehow he made it through?

    Has he been had? Is he sad and blue? Would a gong make him feel shiny and new?
    Sad and blue about being had by Johnson, yes that works too.

    But Farage is more of a Manilow than a Madonna sort of bloke to me.
    Well his career as an MP had something of the Bermuda Triangle about it. Lost without trace.
    :smile: - very little that one can't apply some Manilow to. Enormous catalogue.

    But anyway, let's not get too silly. Farage is no joke to be lightened and trivialized with Barry Manilow refs. The dreadful man has landed us with the horror of Brexit and the only question still outstanding is not could it be tragic but just how tragic it will be.
    Is this another lyric reference? If so stop it. I have learnt more today about BM than I ever wanted to.
    It was but it's to your everlasting credit that you are oblivious to it - and there will be no more, you have my solemn word on that.
  • Options
    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,084
    We’ve been through this. If you live south of the Tyne you’re in the south. Simple.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,785

    Grade A Pillock.....

    https://twitter.com/DailyMailUK/status/1298966004756877313?s=20

    I wonder what (if any) sanction he'll face?

    Errr why did they let everyone else fly?

    They had been in an enclosed area for a short period with someone who has tested positive.

    The rest of the passengers should be in quarantine.
    The muppet was wearing a mask and had only been onboard for 10 minutes - but they should have quarantined those in his immediate area, say 3 rows fore & aft.
    That works.

    We imprison people (after a trial) with AIDS who knowingly have unprotected sex with people who don't know the first person had AIDS, I think we should start doing the same with people who break quarantine like this.
    Guernsey hands out whopping fines - the lowest has been £3,000, the highest £10,000. One or two a week.
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,389
    kinabalu said:

    Leicester Forest M1 services. When I get north of that my whole persona changes. It can be quite disconcerting for any passengers.

    J21a: "I need Guacamole."
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,062
    FPT
    Carnyx said:

    » show previous quotes
    Quite so. For people who are always going on about parasites the Tories seem very reluctant to let the SNP administer the medicine.

    It is a rip off , we send them 66 Billion , they gives us 32B back and then claim they have spent 49B on us on crap they actually mainly bought for themselves and try to make out we run a deficit. You would need to be a moron to try and argue that garbage.
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    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,084
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    I see the government is generously offering £13 per day to people having to self-isolate.

    On top of any other benefits that they are receiving.
    What other benefits?
    Well that will vary from case to case. They might be on SSP, UC, disability benefit, WFTC, whatever. The £13 a day will be in addition to that. Surely that is enough to cover any additional heating and delivery costs?
    Isn’t the problem loss of wages, not heating and delivery costs?

    My ex-girlfriend works in a school for vulnerable young adults. Most of the care staff are on near minimum wage. They cannot afford to take a week off work “just in case” on no pay. £13 a day will not cover their loss of wages. Hence they come in, sick.

    This applies across the care industry, COVID-19 or not. It encourages ill people to go into work.
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    Sandbach Services is the border for me between North and Midlands. The M62, Warrington down to Holmes Chapel and Congleton are in the North. Stoke etc are in the West Midlands.

    Watford Gap Services marks the beginning of the South.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,310

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:
    And still you have some here saying Biden needs to "stop the violence" when he's not the one in office.

    What is Biden meant to say to stop a juvenile white supremacist, 'blue lives matter' fanatic armed with an illegal firearm from crossing state lines then killing multiple people?

    Or is it a case of there's "good people on both sides"?
    It looks like at least one politician had some influence over the shooter.

    'The Kenosha Shooting Suspect Was In The Front Row Of A Trump Rally In January'

    https://tinyurl.com/y3e56rg9
    Has there ever before in modern times been a US President whose rallies and rhetoric would be likely to feed rather than dampen a disturbed young person's budding white racism and desire to kill in its name? Surely not.

    Absolutely tragic and beyond sad. Not even old enough to vote.
    Imagine the furore if some soon-to-be radicalised rioter had been in the crowd at a Biden glad handing session.

    'Our guy only killed people, possibly in self defence. Your guy....DAMAGED PROPERTY!!!'
    Or the ultimate atrocity -

    MADE SOME DINERS A LITTLE UNCOMFORTABLE !!
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,389

    Nigelb said:
    What is Biden meant to say to stop a juvenile white supremacist, 'blue lives matter' fanatic armed with an illegal firearm from crossing state lines then killing multiple people?
    For a white supremacist fanatic, he doesn't seem to have done much damage in the two hours he was guarding a dealership, or even in the six minutes between being ordered away from the dealership by the police, and reappearing being chased by a mob of people both carrying guns and firing them into the air, before surrendering himself to police with his hands in the air (not with his finger on the trigger, as claimed earlier on here).
    So after committing multiple felonies but prior to shooting dead multiple people he didn't do much damage? Is that how it works in your eyes?
    If you're a white supremacist fanatic who sets out to kill people, you act like Breivik. If you hang around outside a dealership for two hours, run away from a mob rather than open fire into it, then shoot three people - one running at you as gunshots are fired, a second hitting you with a skateboard, and a third drawing an illegal firearm after approaching you with their hands up - before immediately surrender yourself to police, you may just be a seventeen year old who wanted to LARP as police one night and bit off more than you could chew.
    This may surprise you but a great many murderers, even fanatical murderers, kill people when they perceive the opportunity is right to do so and don't simply go out premeditated shooting like its a game of Grand Theft Auto.

    I'm sure if a Black Lives Matter protestor had shot dead multiple people you'd be on here sympathising that maye they had just bitten off more than they could chew too. Or maybe not.
    To me it looks like he was a low grade fantasist. 'Cept this being the US he was an armed low grade fantastist.

    Knowing nothing of the details beyond an extensive picture spread in the Daily Mail I wouldn't have too much difficulty believing that he got himself into a whole lot of wrong place wrong time and by the time he emerged he had actually used the weapon that had hitherto been an image enhancer only.
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    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,084

    Sandbach Services is the border for me between North and Midlands. The M62, Warrington down to Holmes Chapel and Congleton are in the North. Stoke etc are in the West Midlands.

    Watford Gap Services marks the beginning of the South.

    Wrong
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,879
    malcolmg said:

    FPT
    Carnyx said:

    » show previous quotes
    Quite so. For people who are always going on about parasites the Tories seem very reluctant to let the SNP administer the medicine.

    It is a rip off , we send them 66 Billion , they gives us 32B back and then claim they have spent 49B on us on crap they actually mainly bought for themselves and try to make out we run a deficit. You would need to be a moron to try and argue that garbage.

    Hello Malcy. Hope it's not too dreich in your corner. We Scots were also discusing empire biscuits, you might have seen. What do they call them in your airt?
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,116
    ydoethur said:

    I nearly solved all our nation's debt problems today.

    I was filling in my tax return, and clicked to make a payment.

    The payment was declined. I was somewhat puzzled, until I realized I had entered my card number where it said 'amount to pay.'

    Of course, if the bank had accepted that payment, that would only have been the start of my adventures...

    "Tax the 16-digitaires!"
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,879
    kinabalu said:

    Leicester Forest M1 services. When I get north of that my whole persona changes. It can be quite disconcerting for any passengers.

    This makes me think of you getting out for refreshments there by roaming Charnwood Forest for some nice rabbits in your werewolf mode.
This discussion has been closed.