politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » If the Tories are to lose their majority there has to be an “understanding” between Starmer and Davey
So the punters had the LD leadership contest right. In a relatively low turnout election (57% of members) Sir Ed Davey beat Layla Moran by 63.5% to 36.5%. This was largely expected and broadly in line with the YouGov members’ poll last January.
Outrageous. The man is Innocent until proven Guilty again.
I would tentatively suggest that a trial where none of the accused were present or represented and none of the evidence was challenged is not particularly good evidence of anything.
The Greek police are arseholes when I've seen them in action, which was in Athens 2007.
If weren't for the fact there were so many British police out there in an official capacity it would have been much worse.
They were indiscriminately striking people, including young children, then trying to arrest stricken people for being a nuisance is truly special.
My 'favourite' was the Greek rozzer who grabbed official match tickets from Liverpool fans, hit them, then said they were trying to get in without tickets.
“It’s so bizarre, I actually feel a little bit sorry for the prime minister because it wasn’t ever intended for him – I did it as a message for the school management before I left in February,” the 48-year-old former librarian, who asked not to be named, told HuffPost UK.
“It just became untenable to carry on working there because of the lack of support I had and I was left with no choice but to resign.
“That’s why I decided to leave them a big message during my last week. They obviously never actually noticed, and it went untouched for six months.”
I am anti gongs for anything except valour and possibly voluntary work and there shouldn't be a difference between the type of gongs for 'important' people and and the plebs who are brave or give freely of their time for good causes.
I am also anti Farage, BUT if gongs are going to be given out for your political impact (and there are a whole host of MPs and ex-MPs who most of us have never heard of who have got them) then Farage must come pretty high up on the list for deserving one (says through gritted teeth).
“It’s so bizarre, I actually feel a little bit sorry for the prime minister because it wasn’t ever intended for him – I did it as a message for the school management before I left in February,” the 48-year-old former librarian, who asked not to be named, told HuffPost UK.
“It just became untenable to carry on working there because of the lack of support I had and I was left with no choice but to resign.
“That’s why I decided to leave them a big message during my last week. They obviously never actually noticed, and it went untouched for six months.”
A Scottish Labour source said: “Richard not only missed an open goal, he wasn’t even on the pitch. “It’s bad enough that he’s dragging the party down with him, but he’s also putting the Union at risk with his ineptitude.”
Outrageous. The man is Innocent until proven Guilty again.
I would tentatively suggest that a trial where none of the accused were present or represented and none of the evidence was challenged is not particularly good evidence of anything.
The Greek police are arseholes when I've seen them in action, which was in Athens 2007.
If weren't for the fact there were so many British police out there in an official capacity it would have been much worse.
They were indiscriminately striking people, including young children, then trying to arrest stricken people for being a nuisance is truly special.
My 'favourite' was the Greek rozzer who grabbed official match tickets from Liverpool fans, hit them, then said they were trying to get in without tickets.
So right now people are voting Tory, some in spite of Johnson - Brexit?
Look at the Favourables not the net figures. There's not a big difference between either the main parties or the leaders.
Why should I not look at net
Because when people are giving voting intention they're asked who they're voting for ... not who they're voting against. You can't go to a ballot paper and say I'm against the Tories so put a cross in the Tories box to say you're against them and then leave it at that.
Hypothetically in a sample of 3 I might say I am for Johnson, against Starmer and neutral on Davey, voting Tories. You might say you're against Johnson, for Starmer, neutral on Davey and voting for Labour. Someone else may say they're against Johnson neutral on Starmer, for Davey and voting for the Lib Dems.
Now that sums to between three people 1 favourable for each leader and 1 vote for each party. Net it is plus one for Davey, neutral for Starmer and minus one for Johnson but the votes don't reflect that.
If a party is inoffensive but doesn't attract much actually in favour or voting for them then does the fact they're inoffensive so are net popular but with little actual support mean they're doing well?
Outrageous. The man is Innocent until proven Guilty again.
I would tentatively suggest that a trial where none of the accused were present or represented and none of the evidence was challenged is not particularly good evidence of anything.
The Greek police are arseholes when I've seen them in action, which was in Athens 2007.
If weren't for the fact there were so many British police out there in an official capacity it would have been much worse.
They were indiscriminately striking people, including young children, then trying to arrest stricken people for being a nuisance is truly special.
My 'favourite' was the Greek rozzer who grabbed official match tickets from Liverpool fans, hit them, then said they were trying to get in without tickets.
So right now people are voting Tory, some in spite of Johnson - Brexit?
Look at the Favourables not the net figures. There's not a big difference between either the main parties or the leaders.
Why should I not look at net
Because when people are giving voting intention they're asked who they're voting for ... not who they're voting against. You can't go to a ballot paper and say I'm against the Tories so put a cross in the Tories box to say you're against them and then leave it at that.
Hypothetically in a sample of 3 I might say I am for Johnson, against Starmer and neutral on Davey, voting Tories. You might say you're against Johnson, for Starmer, neutral on Davey and voting for Labour. Someone else may say they're against Johnson neutral on Starmer, for Davey and voting for the Lib Dems.
Now that sums to between three people 1 favourable for each leader and 1 vote for each party. Net it is plus one for Davey, neutral for Starmer and minus one for Johnson but the votes don't reflect that.
If a party is inoffensive but doesn't attract much actually in favour or voting for them then does the fact they're inoffensive so are net popular but with little actual support mean they're doing well?
I've understood from @MikeSmithson for quite a while net figures are a very good judge of historical electoral outcomes
So right now people are voting Tory, some in spite of Johnson - Brexit?
Look at the Favourables not the net figures. There's not a big difference between either the main parties or the leaders.
Why should I not look at net
Because when people are giving voting intention they're asked who they're voting for ... not who they're voting against. You can't go to a ballot paper and say I'm against the Tories so put a cross in the Tories box to say you're against them and then leave it at that.
Hypothetically in a sample of 3 I might say I am for Johnson, against Starmer and neutral on Davey, voting Tories. You might say you're against Johnson, for Starmer, neutral on Davey and voting for Labour. Someone else may say they're against Johnson neutral on Starmer, for Davey and voting for the Lib Dems.
Now that sums to between three people 1 favourable for each leader and 1 vote for each party. Net it is plus one for Davey, neutral for Starmer and minus one for Johnson but the votes don't reflect that.
If a party is inoffensive but doesn't attract much actually in favour or voting for them then does the fact they're inoffensive so are net popular but with little actual support mean they're doing well?
Inoffensive is worse than having positive support, but the net figures are telling us something important. Part of the difference between 2017 and 2019 was the change from "Jeremy isn't my cup of tea, but not the end of the world" to "OMG must stop Comrade Jezza".
A Scottish Labour source said: “Richard not only missed an open goal, he wasn’t even on the pitch. “It’s bad enough that he’s dragging the party down with him, but he’s also putting the Union at risk with his ineptitude.”
Outrageous. The man is Innocent until proven Guilty again.
I would tentatively suggest that a trial where none of the accused were present or represented and none of the evidence was challenged is not particularly good evidence of anything.
The Greek police are arseholes when I've seen them in action, which was in Athens 2007.
If weren't for the fact there were so many British police out there in an official capacity it would have been much worse.
They were indiscriminately striking people, including young children, then trying to arrest stricken people for being a nuisance is truly special.
My 'favourite' was the Greek rozzer who grabbed official match tickets from Liverpool fans, hit them, then said they were trying to get in without tickets.
Heysel.
What about it?
If I were a greek rozzer who'd heard about it, I'd behave like that. Sowing -> reaping.
Isn't she learning from what the Tories did so well in the Coalition?
Shamelessly adopt your opponents policies when they are popular, so you can gain credit for them and neutralise them as a point of difference. Then you can choose how to differentiate yourself on terrain that favours you.
It's a good slogan, but now it's like motherhood and apple pie. Everyone's in favour of it, so what? What are the Tories doing to make it happen? Why aren't they doing x, y and z as well?
A Scottish Labour source said: “Richard not only missed an open goal, he wasn’t even on the pitch. “It’s bad enough that he’s dragging the party down with him, but he’s also putting the Union at risk with his ineptitude.”
Heavily moustachioed & sunglass-wearing Scottish Labour source going by the name of Man Iurray I bet.
So right now people are voting Tory, some in spite of Johnson - Brexit?
Look at the Favourables not the net figures. There's not a big difference between either the main parties or the leaders.
Why should I not look at net
Because when people are giving voting intention they're asked who they're voting for ... not who they're voting against. You can't go to a ballot paper and say I'm against the Tories so put a cross in the Tories box to say you're against them and then leave it at that.
Hypothetically in a sample of 3 I might say I am for Johnson, against Starmer and neutral on Davey, voting Tories. You might say you're against Johnson, for Starmer, neutral on Davey and voting for Labour. Someone else may say they're against Johnson neutral on Starmer, for Davey and voting for the Lib Dems.
Now that sums to between three people 1 favourable for each leader and 1 vote for each party. Net it is plus one for Davey, neutral for Starmer and minus one for Johnson but the votes don't reflect that.
If a party is inoffensive but doesn't attract much actually in favour or voting for them then does the fact they're inoffensive so are net popular but with little actual support mean they're doing well?
I've understood from @MikeSmithson for quite a while net figures are a very good judge of historical electoral outcomes
From 2010-2015 Labour consistently led in the polls, Milliband frequently led in net favourability, but Cameron consistently led in absolute favourability.
Which proved to be more accurate in the 2015 election?
FPT The Spanish outbreak is predominately asymptotic (60%) and under 40, the numbers hospitalized are low enough, in most communities, to not stress the system (I posted some Covid % Hospital occupancy rates a few days ago) and transfers to icu proportionally low as well. The problem is that it is occasionally getting into care homes causing deaths. Sticking my neck out I think we are reaching the peak of this wave in the country overall but with hot spots still occurring. Of course it could all go titus aribus when the schools go back and there is not great confidence that it won’t despite the planning and precautions.
So right now people are voting Tory, some in spite of Johnson - Brexit?
Look at the Favourables not the net figures. There's not a big difference between either the main parties or the leaders.
Why should I not look at net
Because when people are giving voting intention they're asked who they're voting for ... not who they're voting against. You can't go to a ballot paper and say I'm against the Tories so put a cross in the Tories box to say you're against them and then leave it at that.
Hypothetically in a sample of 3 I might say I am for Johnson, against Starmer and neutral on Davey, voting Tories. You might say you're against Johnson, for Starmer, neutral on Davey and voting for Labour. Someone else may say they're against Johnson neutral on Starmer, for Davey and voting for the Lib Dems.
Now that sums to between three people 1 favourable for each leader and 1 vote for each party. Net it is plus one for Davey, neutral for Starmer and minus one for Johnson but the votes don't reflect that.
If a party is inoffensive but doesn't attract much actually in favour or voting for them then does the fact they're inoffensive so are net popular but with little actual support mean they're doing well?
I've understood from @MikeSmithson for quite a while net figures are a very good judge of historical electoral outcomes
From 2010-2015 Labour consistently led in the polls, Milliband frequently led in net favourability, but Cameron consistently led in absolute favourability.
Which proved to be more accurate in the 2015 election?
So right now people are voting Tory, some in spite of Johnson - Brexit?
Look at the Favourables not the net figures. There's not a big difference between either the main parties or the leaders.
Why should I not look at net
Because when people are giving voting intention they're asked who they're voting for ... not who they're voting against. You can't go to a ballot paper and say I'm against the Tories so put a cross in the Tories box to say you're against them and then leave it at that.
Hypothetically in a sample of 3 I might say I am for Johnson, against Starmer and neutral on Davey, voting Tories. You might say you're against Johnson, for Starmer, neutral on Davey and voting for Labour. Someone else may say they're against Johnson neutral on Starmer, for Davey and voting for the Lib Dems.
Now that sums to between three people 1 favourable for each leader and 1 vote for each party. Net it is plus one for Davey, neutral for Starmer and minus one for Johnson but the votes don't reflect that.
If a party is inoffensive but doesn't attract much actually in favour or voting for them then does the fact they're inoffensive so are net popular but with little actual support mean they're doing well?
Inoffensive is worse than having positive support, but the net figures are telling us something important. Part of the difference between 2017 and 2019 was the change from "Jeremy isn't my cup of tea, but not the end of the world" to "OMG must stop Comrade Jezza".
Corbyn made people either turn out to vote Tory to stop him, or to not bother.
It is even possible the 2 parties could end up in coalition in 2024 with Starmer PM and Davey Deputy PM if say Labour gain 70 to 80 seats from the Tories in England and Wales and 20 from the SNP in Scotland and the LDs pick up 20 from the Tories in London and the South Labour and the LDs would be on 330 seats ie a majority combined.
So right now people are voting Tory, some in spite of Johnson - Brexit?
Look at the Favourables not the net figures. There's not a big difference between either the main parties or the leaders.
Why should I not look at net
Because when people are giving voting intention they're asked who they're voting for ... not who they're voting against. You can't go to a ballot paper and say I'm against the Tories so put a cross in the Tories box to say you're against them and then leave it at that.
Hypothetically in a sample of 3 I might say I am for Johnson, against Starmer and neutral on Davey, voting Tories. You might say you're against Johnson, for Starmer, neutral on Davey and voting for Labour. Someone else may say they're against Johnson neutral on Starmer, for Davey and voting for the Lib Dems.
Now that sums to between three people 1 favourable for each leader and 1 vote for each party. Net it is plus one for Davey, neutral for Starmer and minus one for Johnson but the votes don't reflect that.
If a party is inoffensive but doesn't attract much actually in favour or voting for them then does the fact they're inoffensive so are net popular but with little actual support mean they're doing well?
I've understood from @MikeSmithson for quite a while net figures are a very good judge of historical electoral outcomes
From 2010-2015 Labour consistently led in the polls, Milliband frequently led in net favourability, but Cameron consistently led in absolute favourability.
Which proved to be more accurate in the 2015 election?
So right now people are voting Tory, some in spite of Johnson - Brexit?
Look at the Favourables not the net figures. There's not a big difference between either the main parties or the leaders.
Why should I not look at net
Because when people are giving voting intention they're asked who they're voting for ... not who they're voting against. You can't go to a ballot paper and say I'm against the Tories so put a cross in the Tories box to say you're against them and then leave it at that.
Hypothetically in a sample of 3 I might say I am for Johnson, against Starmer and neutral on Davey, voting Tories. You might say you're against Johnson, for Starmer, neutral on Davey and voting for Labour. Someone else may say they're against Johnson neutral on Starmer, for Davey and voting for the Lib Dems.
Now that sums to between three people 1 favourable for each leader and 1 vote for each party. Net it is plus one for Davey, neutral for Starmer and minus one for Johnson but the votes don't reflect that.
If a party is inoffensive but doesn't attract much actually in favour or voting for them then does the fact they're inoffensive so are net popular but with little actual support mean they're doing well?
I've understood from @MikeSmithson for quite a while net figures are a very good judge of historical electoral outcomes
From 2010-2015 Labour consistently led in the polls, Milliband frequently led in net favourability, but Cameron consistently led in absolute favourability.
Which proved to be more accurate in the 2015 election?
Outrageous. The man is Innocent until proven Guilty again.
I would tentatively suggest that a trial where none of the accused were present or represented and none of the evidence was challenged is not particularly good evidence of anything.
The Greek police are arseholes when I've seen them in action, which was in Athens 2007.
If weren't for the fact there were so many British police out there in an official capacity it would have been much worse.
They were indiscriminately striking people, including young children, then trying to arrest stricken people for being a nuisance is truly special.
My 'favourite' was the Greek rozzer who grabbed official match tickets from Liverpool fans, hit them, then said they were trying to get in without tickets.
Heysel.
What about it?
If I were a greek rozzer who'd heard about it, I'd behave like that. Sowing -> reaping.
But that was over twenty years ago and in the previous six years Liverpool had been to two European finals without incident.
Since readmittance the greatest violent seen involving fans from England featured Arsenal.
So right now people are voting Tory, some in spite of Johnson - Brexit?
Look at the Favourables not the net figures. There's not a big difference between either the main parties or the leaders.
Why should I not look at net
Because when people are giving voting intention they're asked who they're voting for ... not who they're voting against. You can't go to a ballot paper and say I'm against the Tories so put a cross in the Tories box to say you're against them and then leave it at that.
Hypothetically in a sample of 3 I might say I am for Johnson, against Starmer and neutral on Davey, voting Tories. You might say you're against Johnson, for Starmer, neutral on Davey and voting for Labour. Someone else may say they're against Johnson neutral on Starmer, for Davey and voting for the Lib Dems.
Now that sums to between three people 1 favourable for each leader and 1 vote for each party. Net it is plus one for Davey, neutral for Starmer and minus one for Johnson but the votes don't reflect that.
If a party is inoffensive but doesn't attract much actually in favour or voting for them then does the fact they're inoffensive so are net popular but with little actual support mean they're doing well?
I've understood from @MikeSmithson for quite a while net figures are a very good judge of historical electoral outcomes
From 2010-2015 Labour consistently led in the polls, Milliband frequently led in net favourability, but Cameron consistently led in absolute favourability.
Which proved to be more accurate in the 2015 election?
Outrageous. The man is Innocent until proven Guilty again.
I would tentatively suggest that a trial where none of the accused were present or represented and none of the evidence was challenged is not particularly good evidence of anything.
The Greek police are arseholes when I've seen them in action, which was in Athens 2007.
If weren't for the fact there were so many British police out there in an official capacity it would have been much worse.
They were indiscriminately striking people, including young children, then trying to arrest stricken people for being a nuisance is truly special.
My 'favourite' was the Greek rozzer who grabbed official match tickets from Liverpool fans, hit them, then said they were trying to get in without tickets.
Heysel.
What about it?
If I were a greek rozzer who'd heard about it, I'd behave like that. Sowing -> reaping.
But that was over twenty years ago and in the previous six years Liverpool had been to two European finals without incident.
Since readmittance the greatest violent seen involving fans from England featured Arsenal.
Outrageous. The man is Innocent until proven Guilty again.
I would tentatively suggest that a trial where none of the accused were present or represented and none of the evidence was challenged is not particularly good evidence of anything.
The Greek police are arseholes when I've seen them in action, which was in Athens 2007.
If weren't for the fact there were so many British police out there in an official capacity it would have been much worse.
They were indiscriminately striking people, including young children, then trying to arrest stricken people for being a nuisance is truly special.
My 'favourite' was the Greek rozzer who grabbed official match tickets from Liverpool fans, hit them, then said they were trying to get in without tickets.
Heysel.
What about it?
If I were a greek rozzer who'd heard about it, I'd behave like that. Sowing -> reaping.
But that was over twenty years ago and in the previous six years Liverpool had been to two European finals without incident.
Since readmittance the greatest violent seen involving fans from England featured Arsenal.
FPT The Spanish outbreak is predominately asymptotic (60%) and under 40, the numbers hospitalized are low enough, in most communities, to not stress the system (I posted some Covid % Hospital occupancy rates a few days ago) and transfers to icu proportionally low as well. The problem is that it is occasionally getting into care homes causing deaths. Sticking my neck out I think we are reaching the peak of this wave in the country overall but with hot spots still occurring. Of course it could all go titus aribus when the schools go back and there is not great confidence that it won’t despite the planning and precautions.
A lot of this is why we should be cautious at looking at increased case numbers as suggesting that the epidemic is at the same state as it was in March - we are finding a far higher proportion of those with the disease. Still need to be very careful, and people need to keep to the rules as best that the can, but this doesn't look like a second wave of deaths to me (yet).
Outrageous. The man is Innocent until proven Guilty again.
I would tentatively suggest that a trial where none of the accused were present or represented and none of the evidence was challenged is not particularly good evidence of anything.
The Greek police are arseholes when I've seen them in action, which was in Athens 2007.
If weren't for the fact there were so many British police out there in an official capacity it would have been much worse.
They were indiscriminately striking people, including young children, then trying to arrest stricken people for being a nuisance is truly special.
My 'favourite' was the Greek rozzer who grabbed official match tickets from Liverpool fans, hit them, then said they were trying to get in without tickets.
Heysel.
What about it?
If I were a greek rozzer who'd heard about it, I'd behave like that. Sowing -> reaping.
But that was over twenty years ago and in the previous six years Liverpool had been to two European finals without incident.
Since readmittance the greatest violent seen involving fans from England featured Arsenal.
The Tories aren't fighting to get lots of state aid. They're seeking to ensure that we decide for ourselves. That's the issue.
I said the other day what happens if we wish to put in favourable tax conditions to attract Tesla to build a Gigafactory in the UK providing thousands of highly productive, high paying jobs . . . in a way that Ireland has done for Apple and and Germany have done for Tesla . . . but the EU decides us having competitive taxes there is illegal state aid in our case and we have no recourse to deal with that?
I'm OK with the principle of no state aid, I am not OK with a foreign country determining our policies and interpreting it for us.
I see the government is generously offering £13 per day to people having to self-isolate.
That's the standard statutory sick pay rate divided by seven and rounded down to a whole number of pounds.
I'm very supportive of increasing our pitifully low rates of social security, but it's a hard struggle. Even Corbyn gave up on promising money for social security (the cowardly, malign waste of space that he proved to be).
Outrageous. The man is Innocent until proven Guilty again.
I would tentatively suggest that a trial where none of the accused were present or represented and none of the evidence was challenged is not particularly good evidence of anything.
The Greek police are arseholes when I've seen them in action, which was in Athens 2007.
If weren't for the fact there were so many British police out there in an official capacity it would have been much worse.
They were indiscriminately striking people, including young children, then trying to arrest stricken people for being a nuisance is truly special.
My 'favourite' was the Greek rozzer who grabbed official match tickets from Liverpool fans, hit them, then said they were trying to get in without tickets.
Heysel.
What about it?
If I were a greek rozzer who'd heard about it, I'd behave like that. Sowing -> reaping.
But that was over twenty years ago and in the previous six years Liverpool had been to two European finals without incident.
Since readmittance the greatest violent seen involving fans from England featured Arsenal.
On topic I know something about the LDs running a paper candidate to try and help Labour. We didn't just have a candidate who largely boycotted coming to campaign, we put out some almost endorsements of the Labour candidate which made the national press.
The problem was that local Labour activists viewed our running at all to be proof we were Tories, that the votes we were taking off the Tories in Tory wards were votes stolen from the blessed Jeremy, and nationally there was no reciprocity.
Frankly as a democrat I do not want to see parties stepping down for each other. People should be able to vote for the party of their choice. But clever campaigning and maximising pockets of support is the only way to play FPTP. The huge increase in the LD vote 2017 > 2019 delivered no progress. Just as the 20% surge in the Tory vote 2015 > 2017 lost them seats.
I don't care to fight either way, I think the Empire is in the past and that is where it should stay
I think you would struggle to find anybody who wants a new empire.
I could murder an empire biscuit.But what is the pc term for one?
Wasn't it originally the German Biscuit and then like that patriotic marketing move that rebranded the House of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha, changed to the Empire Biscuit in WWI? Perhaps in the light of Scotland's likely future, it could revert to that as a friendly gesture?
I don't care to fight either way, I think the Empire is in the past and that is where it should stay
I think you would struggle to find anybody who wants a new empire.
I could murder an empire biscuit.But what is the pc term for one?
A bakewell biscuit perhaps? Its pretty similar.
Not familiar with them. *Checks* they seem to need almond and cherry whereas the former is missing and the latter replaced by raspberry jam, at least in the Lothians variety of empire biccy. Sound good though.
On topic I know something about the LDs running a paper candidate to try and help Labour. We didn't just have a candidate who largely boycotted coming to campaign, we put out some almost endorsements of the Labour candidate which made the national press.
The problem was that local Labour activists viewed our running at all to be proof we were Tories, that the votes we were taking off the Tories in Tory wards were votes stolen from the blessed Jeremy, and nationally there was no reciprocity.
Frankly as a democrat I do not want to see parties stepping down for each other. People should be able to vote for the party of their choice. But clever campaigning and maximising pockets of support is the only way to play FPTP. The huge increase in the LD vote 2017 > 2019 delivered no progress. Just as the 20% surge in the Tory vote 2015 > 2017 lost them seats.
Have to be very careful about endorsing other candidates expenses wise, don't you?
Outrageous. The man is Innocent until proven Guilty again.
I would tentatively suggest that a trial where none of the accused were present or represented and none of the evidence was challenged is not particularly good evidence of anything.
The Greek police are arseholes when I've seen them in action, which was in Athens 2007.
If weren't for the fact there were so many British police out there in an official capacity it would have been much worse.
They were indiscriminately striking people, including young children, then trying to arrest stricken people for being a nuisance is truly special.
My 'favourite' was the Greek rozzer who grabbed official match tickets from Liverpool fans, hit them, then said they were trying to get in without tickets.
Heysel.
What about it?
If I were a greek rozzer who'd heard about it, I'd behave like that. Sowing -> reaping.
But that was over twenty years ago and in the previous six years Liverpool had been to two European finals without incident.
Since readmittance the greatest violent seen involving fans from England featured Arsenal.
And you think the causal factor there were the Arsenal fans? Given what happened at the semi final, I think the opponents were the key factor.
It happened on Arsenal's watch, not all those fans convicted at Heysel were Liverpool fans, but Liverpool (rightly) took the blame for that disgrace.
Of course, the blame was shared throughout English football in 1985. Perhaps that was understandable, but I can see why fans of certain clubs are still bitter about it.
But as it happens I think Liverpool get too much of the blame for Heysel. My friends were there in 1980 for the Cup Winners Cup Final and they said the ground was falling to bits and completely unsuitable for a major European final. And the Juve fans didn't exactly cover themselves in glory in 1985.
“It’s so bizarre, I actually feel a little bit sorry for the prime minister because it wasn’t ever intended for him – I did it as a message for the school management before I left in February,” the 48-year-old former librarian, who asked not to be named, told HuffPost UK.
“It just became untenable to carry on working there because of the lack of support I had and I was left with no choice but to resign.
“That’s why I decided to leave them a big message during my last week. They obviously never actually noticed, and it went untouched for six months.”
I think we all know how s/he feels. Says a lot that the management haven’t noticed though.
That’s sure as hell something the PM’s SpAd should have noticed though.
From now on, some poor bugger is going to be sent well in advance of ministerial visits to look for this stuff. Visions of Malcolm Tucker screaming blue murder at whoever was in charge of setting up the venue.
I don't care to fight either way, I think the Empire is in the past and that is where it should stay
I think you would struggle to find anybody who wants a new empire.
I could murder an empire biscuit.But what is the pc term for one?
Wasn't it originally the German Biscuit and then like that patriotic marketing move that rebranded the House of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha, changed to the Empire Biscuit in WWI? Perhaps in the light of Scotland's likely future, it could revert to that as a friendly gesture?
Oh - didn't know that at all. One l earns so much on PB. A gastronomic erquivalent of the House of Battenberg, so to speak.
“It’s so bizarre, I actually feel a little bit sorry for the prime minister because it wasn’t ever intended for him – I did it as a message for the school management before I left in February,” the 48-year-old former librarian, who asked not to be named, told HuffPost UK.
“It just became untenable to carry on working there because of the lack of support I had and I was left with no choice but to resign.
“That’s why I decided to leave them a big message during my last week. They obviously never actually noticed, and it went untouched for six months.”
I think we all know how s/he feels. Says a lot that the management haven’t noticed though.
That’s sure as hell something the PM’s SpAd should have noticed though.
From now on, some poor bugger is going to be sent well in advance of ministerial visits to look for this stuff. Visions of Malcolm Tucker screaming blue murder at whoever was in charge of setting up the venue.
Well, his Spad’s eyesight isn’t very good. In fact, he quite famously had to test it by driving to Barnard Castle...
Meanwhile maskless, free, prosperous Sweden is thinking of further relaxations....allowing gatherings of 500 seated people.
Maybe their young people just don;t fancy a nite out, like they do in Spain. Or its more spaced out there innit.
Or something.
Sweden 25 people per km squared England 432 people per km squared
There might be a difference there. See if you spot it.
The comparison was between Sweden and Spain.
Spain is pretty big too. And mask crazy. Ditto France.
Why are they doing so badly when Sweden is doing so well?
Yeh its them youngster going to dem nite clubs innit, before they was closed weeks ago.
or something.
Stupidly night bars with disco music opened up at the end of May (I think) the rules were in place and have widely been ignored despite hundreds of fines being imposed. They are all shut again since 17/8 except where idiot judges have reversed the shutdown. We’re in a period of mass movement of people as Madrid and Murcia second home owners head for the coast meeting up with friends not seen for a year, lots of hugs and kisses and un distanced ad hoc parties on the terrace. There are reasons for the outbreaks, they could have been minimized if people had obeyed the rules, worn their masks and kept two meters apart but they didn’t.
“It’s so bizarre, I actually feel a little bit sorry for the prime minister because it wasn’t ever intended for him – I did it as a message for the school management before I left in February,” the 48-year-old former librarian, who asked not to be named, told HuffPost UK.
“It just became untenable to carry on working there because of the lack of support I had and I was left with no choice but to resign.
“That’s why I decided to leave them a big message during my last week. They obviously never actually noticed, and it went untouched for six months.”
I think we all know how s/he feels. Says a lot that the management haven’t noticed though.
That’s sure as hell something the PM’s SpAd should have noticed though.
From now on, some poor bugger is going to be sent well in advance of ministerial visits to look for this stuff. Visions of Malcolm Tucker screaming blue murder at whoever was in charge of setting up the venue.
Well, his Spad’s eyesight isn’t very good. In fact, he quite famously had to test it by driving to Barnard Castle...
That SpAd is on leave this week, apparently took the time off he said he would months ago, to have an operation.
Of course, the blame was shared throughout English football in 1985. Perhaps that was understandable, but I can see why fans of certain clubs are still bitter about it.
But as it happens I think Liverpool get too much of the blame for Heysel. My friends were there in 1980 for the Cup Winners Cup Final and they said the ground was falling to bits and completely unsuitable for a major European final. And the Juve fans didn't exactly cover themselves in glory in 1985.
Indeed, one of the earliest indications to me that Hillsborough wasn't the fault of Liverpool fans was when I met a Leeds fan in 1992/93 ish, he said Leeds had played a semifinal there a few seasons prior and Leeds fan experienced a crush, and said something similar happened a few years prior to that involving Spurs.
In a book by Tony Evans (I think) he pointed out prior to the Heysel final both Liverpool and Juventus tried to get the final relocated because it was known the stadium wasn't up to scratch but UEFA did a 30 minute inspection in April and said it was fine.
As for the ban, I do feel sorry for the likes of Norwich, Wimbledon, and Coventry who were denied. An Everton supporting friend is convinced that the ban denied Howard Kendall's team the inevitability of doing a Liverpool and winning 3/4 European Cups in a short space of time.
The irony is lost on the likes of Manchester United fans who chant 'murderers' at Liverpool when their own fans have murdered Crystal Palace and Middlesbrough fans and at one point rioted so badly in Europe that they were thrown out of a European competition, but were allowed back in on the proviso they had to play 300 miles away from Old Trafford.
On topic I know something about the LDs running a paper candidate to try and help Labour. We didn't just have a candidate who largely boycotted coming to campaign, we put out some almost endorsements of the Labour candidate which made the national press.
The problem was that local Labour activists viewed our running at all to be proof we were Tories, that the votes we were taking off the Tories in Tory wards were votes stolen from the blessed Jeremy, and nationally there was no reciprocity.
Frankly as a democrat I do not want to see parties stepping down for each other. People should be able to vote for the party of their choice. But clever campaigning and maximising pockets of support is the only way to play FPTP. The huge increase in the LD vote 2017 > 2019 delivered no progress. Just as the 20% surge in the Tory vote 2015 > 2017 lost them seats.
Have to be very careful about endorsing other candidates expenses wise, don't you?
Yes. Speaking of which, did we ever get to the bottom of this mob from the last election, they sent out lots of leaflets saying nothing at all about themselves, only negative things about the Conservatives?
Comments
Headline - 7
7 days - 6
Yesterday - 3
If weren't for the fact there were so many British police out there in an official capacity it would have been much worse.
They were indiscriminately striking people, including young children, then trying to arrest stricken people for being a nuisance is truly special.
My 'favourite' was the Greek rozzer who grabbed official match tickets from Liverpool fans, hit them, then said they were trying to get in without tickets.
https://twitter.com/keiranpedley/status/1298964794377146369
He's a relaxed and hunky guy and there's loads of suitably good shots available.
https://twitter.com/DavidGauke/status/1298968761312124928
Thankfully it's midterm and there's no elections for four years. No need to panic or overreact.
So right now people are voting Tory, some in spite of Johnson - Brexit?
Unfortunately they did it based on factional arguments rather than logic
It is my all time favourite of the pics I've uploaded to the PB servers.
Also loved the one of the Brexiteers with the flag saying
'Brexit mean's (sic) Brexit'
“It’s so bizarre, I actually feel a little bit sorry for the prime minister because it wasn’t ever intended for him – I did it as a message for the school management before I left in February,” the 48-year-old former librarian, who asked not to be named, told HuffPost UK.
“It just became untenable to carry on working there because of the lack of support I had and I was left with no choice but to resign.
“That’s why I decided to leave them a big message during my last week. They obviously never actually noticed, and it went untouched for six months.”
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/castle-rock-school-librarian-didnt-arrange-book-boris-johnson_uk_5f4767b7c5b64f17e138dbdd
I am also anti Farage, BUT if gongs are going to be given out for your political impact (and there are a whole host of MPs and ex-MPs who most of us have never heard of who have got them) then Farage must come pretty high up on the list for deserving one (says through gritted teeth).
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2020/08/27/american-teenager-devastated-filling-thousands-scots-wikipedia/
They don;t like the government at all, but they ain;t too keen on the mainstream alternatives, either.
Sir Keir Starmer KCB really should throw Corbyn out of the party for this sabotage.
https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1298852196365357056
A Scottish Labour source said: “Richard not only missed an open goal, he wasn’t even on the pitch.
“It’s bad enough that he’s dragging the party down with him, but he’s also putting the Union at risk with his ineptitude.”
Hypothetically in a sample of 3 I might say I am for Johnson, against Starmer and neutral on Davey, voting Tories. You might say you're against Johnson, for Starmer, neutral on Davey and voting for Labour. Someone else may say they're against Johnson neutral on Starmer, for Davey and voting for the Lib Dems.
Now that sums to between three people 1 favourable for each leader and 1 vote for each party. Net it is plus one for Davey, neutral for Starmer and minus one for Johnson but the votes don't reflect that.
If a party is inoffensive but doesn't attract much actually in favour or voting for them then does the fact they're inoffensive so are net popular but with little actual support mean they're doing well?
https://twitter.com/joswinson/status/1298961796368396288?s=21
Suggest this for SKS -
https://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/news-photo/labour-leader-keir-starmer-arrives-at-wakefield-college-for-news-photo/1265546492
https://twitter.com/AynRandPaulRyan/status/1298958865732521985?s=20
https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=SomkWJ6o&id=8192589EBEAA5132370C8B1200856762E4BE2931&thid=OIP.SomkWJ6oGzsEkopJS4GczAHaEK&mediaurl=https://s.yimg.com/uu/api/res/1.2/eO9N70jrMANsbrSX77_Zxg--~B/aD0xMTUyO3c9MjA0ODtzbT0xO2FwcGlkPXl0YWNoeW9u/https://media-mbst-pub-ue1.s3.amazonaws.com/creatr-uploaded-images/2020-06/c129d190-aa8f-11ea-b6fd-6b81c0f1d899&exph=1152&expw=2048&q=starmer+taking+the+knee&simid=608026824968964794&ck=D95232E95F23CBD6C44AA90BB7FBAAB9&selectedIndex=0&FORM=IRPRST&ajaxhist=0
Shamelessly adopt your opponents policies when they are popular, so you can gain credit for them and neutralise them as a point of difference. Then you can choose how to differentiate yourself on terrain that favours you.
It's a good slogan, but now it's like motherhood and apple pie. Everyone's in favour of it, so what? What are the Tories doing to make it happen? Why aren't they doing x, y and z as well?
From 2010-2015 Labour consistently led in the polls, Milliband frequently led in net favourability, but Cameron consistently led in absolute favourability.
Which proved to be more accurate in the 2015 election?
The Spanish outbreak is predominately asymptotic (60%) and under 40, the numbers hospitalized are low enough, in most communities, to not stress the system (I posted some Covid % Hospital occupancy rates a few days ago) and transfers to icu proportionally low as well. The problem is that it is occasionally getting into care homes causing deaths. Sticking my neck out I think we are reaching the peak of this wave in the country overall but with hot spots still occurring. Of course it could all go titus aribus when the schools go back and there is not great confidence that it won’t despite the planning and precautions.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
Here is his original article. Pre-vanilla so no comments but has his original article in full: https://www7.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2011/01/29/should-the-blues-be-worried-about-daves-ratings-collapse/
Since readmittance the greatest violent seen involving fans from England featured Arsenal.
I don't care to fight either way, I think the Empire is in the past and that is where it should stay
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pfir10me2EQ
I said the other day what happens if we wish to put in favourable tax conditions to attract Tesla to build a Gigafactory in the UK providing thousands of highly productive, high paying jobs . . . in a way that Ireland has done for Apple and and Germany have done for Tesla . . . but the EU decides us having competitive taxes there is illegal state aid in our case and we have no recourse to deal with that?
I'm OK with the principle of no state aid, I am not OK with a foreign country determining our policies and interpreting it for us.
I'm very supportive of increasing our pitifully low rates of social security, but it's a hard struggle. Even Corbyn gave up on promising money for social security (the cowardly, malign waste of space that he proved to be).
Maybe their young people just don;t fancy a nite out, like they do in Spain. Or its more spaced out there innit.
Or something.
The problem was that local Labour activists viewed our running at all to be proof we were Tories, that the votes we were taking off the Tories in Tory wards were votes stolen from the blessed Jeremy, and nationally there was no reciprocity.
Frankly as a democrat I do not want to see parties stepping down for each other. People should be able to vote for the party of their choice. But clever campaigning and maximising pockets of support is the only way to play FPTP. The huge increase in the LD vote 2017 > 2019 delivered no progress. Just as the 20% surge in the Tory vote 2015 > 2017 lost them seats.
England 432 people per km squared
There might be a difference there. See if you spot it.
But as it happens I think Liverpool get too much of the blame for Heysel. My friends were there in 1980 for the Cup Winners Cup Final and they said the ground was falling to bits and completely unsuitable for a major European final. And the Juve fans didn't exactly cover themselves in glory in 1985.
Spain is pretty big too. And mask crazy. Ditto France.
Why are they doing so badly when Sweden is doing so well?
Yeh its them youngster going to dem nite clubs innit, before they was closed weeks ago.
or something.
From now on, some poor bugger is going to be sent well in advance of ministerial visits to look for this stuff. Visions of Malcolm Tucker screaming blue murder at whoever was in charge of setting up the venue.
Leonard gets a different outlook than said earlier in this thread.
https://twitter.com/Reuters/status/1298984877153345536?s=20
In a book by Tony Evans (I think) he pointed out prior to the Heysel final both Liverpool and Juventus tried to get the final relocated because it was known the stadium wasn't up to scratch but UEFA did a 30 minute inspection in April and said it was fine.
As for the ban, I do feel sorry for the likes of Norwich, Wimbledon, and Coventry who were denied. An Everton supporting friend is convinced that the ban denied Howard Kendall's team the inevitability of doing a Liverpool and winning 3/4 European Cups in a short space of time.
The irony is lost on the likes of Manchester United fans who chant 'murderers' at Liverpool when their own fans have murdered Crystal Palace and Middlesbrough fans and at one point rioted so badly in Europe that they were thrown out of a European competition, but were allowed back in on the proviso they had to play 300 miles away from Old Trafford.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advance_Together