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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » A big day for Sunak – now as big a threat to Starmer as he is

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  • kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    humbugger said:

    Dodds performance very poor, and Sunak has demolished it in response.

    Labour has a better leader than Corbyn now but a worse Shadow Chancellor than McDonnell (even though personally as a Tory I would prefer Dodds)
    McDonnell, the best Chancellor we nearly but never had?

    Certainly a case can be made.
    I don't even know who the shadow chancellor is... hardly heard a peep.
    I wonder why you bother to post at all, every post shows you to be a real moron
    Thanks CHB.. I refer you or someone else posting as you at the time of the GE pretending to be a newcomer..
    Yet another completely unintelligible post, did you ever finish primary school?
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,060
    We have cricket!!!
  • eekeek Posts: 28,405
    edited July 2020

    IshmaelZ said:

    humbugger said:

    Dodds performance very poor, and Sunak has demolished it in response.

    She gave a long complicated speech that kind of droned on. I switched off. I think all she should have tried to do today is introduce herself to the nation and potential voters rather than get into detail.
    I gave up too. She was going on about the virus response, which is nothing to do with the Chancellor. Of course, it is always tough for a shadow to respond on the hoof to a Government policy statement,
    I thought she sounded ok. The scotch accent is a plus, the banks all have Scottish call centres because people find the accent trustworthy on financial matters.
    LOL RBS anyone? or even HBOS...
    People's view of the accent is very different from even their view of the banks themselves.

    For reference imagine calling up your bank and being greeted by a broad Liverpudlian accent - it would just put customers off - often stereotypes are all important.
  • IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    humbugger said:

    Dodds performance very poor, and Sunak has demolished it in response.

    She gave a long complicated speech that kind of droned on. I switched off. I think all she should have tried to do today is introduce herself to the nation and potential voters rather than get into detail.
    I gave up too. She was going on about the virus response, which is nothing to do with the Chancellor. Of course, it is always tough for a shadow to respond on the hoof to a Government policy statement,
    I thought she sounded ok. The scotch accent is a plus, the banks all have Scottish call centres because people find the accent trustworthy on financial matters.
    LOL RBS anyone? or even HBOS...
    How is that a point?

    I don't agree with everything my learned friend CHB posts, but...
    You have called somebody else out, you have regained my respect and trust. Well done.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,885
    CatMan said:

    We have cricket!!!

    That's the most sensible and humane comment on PB all day.
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221
    There's a particular quality to the screaming in this video

    https://twitter.com/JackPosobiec/status/1280634854753910785?s=20
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556

    Sunak popularity going to skyrocket. Easy to give away money

    Well yes, it's the totality of Labour politics.

    Or at least it was, until Sunak stole all your clothes :wink:
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,464
    Play has started at Southampton!
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    MattW said:

    Insofar as this is anything more than a stunt, I don't think this manifesto is going to be snapping up more Biden than Trump voters.

    https://twitter.com/guardian/status/1280822437391761410?s=20

    Oh dear.

    He's about to get cancelled.
    Wait til they find out how many times he’s used the N-word
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,370
    England Hospital numbers out

    Headline - 42
    7 days - 30 - quite a bit of back dating
    Yesterday - 4

    As ever, the last 3-5 days are subject to revision. last 5 days included for completeness

    image
    image
    image
    image
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205
    Just had a look at the B Williams vid on twitter. She's not wearing a seatbelt.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    isam said:

    MattW said:

    Insofar as this is anything more than a stunt, I don't think this manifesto is going to be snapping up more Biden than Trump voters.

    https://twitter.com/guardian/status/1280822437391761410?s=20

    Oh dear.

    He's about to get cancelled.
    Wait til they find out how many times he’s used the N-word
    Considering he was snapped wearing a MAGA hat too ...
  • https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1280838173669670912

    At some point, the Government is going to have to disappoint somebody
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,862
    Barnesian said:

    humbugger said:

    Dodds performance very poor, and Sunak has demolished it in response.

    She gave a long complicated speech that kind of droned on. I switched off. I think all she should have tried to do today is introduce herself to the nation and potential voters rather than get into detail.
    She should simply have said:

    Every breath you take and every move you make
    Every bond you break, every step you take, I'll be watching you
    Surely every bond you fake, given our QE policy of having ultra cheap bonds bought by the BoE.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556

    https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1280838173669670912

    At some point, the Government is going to have to disappoint somebody

    And when they do, an extremely boring man with no ability to think on his feet will ask them the same question about it 6 times in a row...
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,298
    MaxPB said:

    rkrkrk said:

    The £1k furlough bonus is politically clever. A sizable amount of cash to offer, and if companies fold before they take it it deflects the blame onto them.

    Don't really see the logic myself.
    £1k isn't going to change their decision, so feels like just a bonus for those whose staff would have been kept anyway.
    I think it may help tip a lot of edge cases into the keep column instead of the redundancy column. It's not going to be black and white.
    It looks quite inefficient to me. If you're deciding between keeping 25 or 30 staff, you get 25k for free, and then only 5k extra for the difficult decisions.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676
    Eng. 0-1

    Toss decision just looked wrong
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468

    https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1280838173669670912

    At some point, the Government is going to have to disappoint somebody

    And when they do, an extremely boring man with no ability to think on his feet will ask them the same question about it 6 times in a row...
    Starmer living rent-free inside your head still I see.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,464
    England lose their first wicket. Haven't scored their first run either.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868

    https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1280838173669670912

    At some point, the Government is going to have to disappoint somebody

    I’m already disappointed.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    edited July 2020

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    At the moment Sunak is popular for helping businesses with the furlough scheme.

    However the test for him will come in December, if Boris ends the transition period and goes to WTO terms and Sunak does not resign he will lose popularity with Remain voters, if however he does resign if no deal is agreed with the EU then he will lose popularity with the Tory membership who will elect the next leader and want a hard Brexit.

    His prospects therefore depend on there being a deal with the EU but that also means Boris will probably remain popular enough to stay PM anyway

    I wish people would stop pretending WTO is a possibility. It isn't. Bigging it up just plays into Johnson's hands - which is perhaps your motive for doing it (don't know about others).

    It allows Johnson to trumpet the inevitable close alignment deal as a victory snatched from the jaws of defeat. Also to benefit from relief that something which was never going to happen is not going to happen.
    WTO is what happens if we don't capitulate to reality. Sadly this government is made up of lunatics who don't actually understand how things like the Dover - Calais crossing work. Dismissing it as not a possibility is hope against hope - it IS a possibility.

    Yes I know that the WTO have already laughed in our face. I know that if we got a border built and staffed and a computer system running in impossible time that it would be a disaster for business and an even bigger disaster if they don't. But this lot don't know the detail or care. Bluster will prevail because this is ENGLAND.
    I totally get where you're coming from with that - nevertheless my reading of the politics of the situation is that WTO is a non-starter. OK, not completely impossible, of course not, but I would assign it no higher than a 10% chance.
    I've said repeatedly that I expect a massive UK climbdown announced as a victory, so we're in agreement. But the problem with wazzocks is that they're smelling the farts and still thinking its fresh cut grass. The risk of Barniwoop and his team heading home to Brussels because the idiots have dug in too far is real and the consequence is that we go splat on New Years Day. Those of us not dead from the Rona by then anyway.
    The difference between Barnier and our team is that Barnier listens, digests and goes to make plans based upon what we have said. We, meanwhile, don't listen and continue to declaim.

    Hence it is a huge shock to us when the EU says to us: "OK this is what you said you wanted, this is what you will have. We are ready, are you?"

    Because of course we are not ready.
  • Jodie Comer apparently upset the world because of who she decides to spend her own private life dating? Why should I care?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Pulpstar said:

    Just had a look at the B Williams vid on twitter. She's not wearing a seatbelt.

    Have you got a link to the video? I tried searching but can just see lots of people saying "I've seen the video" and what they think rather than the actual video.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556

    https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1280838173669670912

    At some point, the Government is going to have to disappoint somebody

    And when they do, an extremely boring man with no ability to think on his feet will ask them the same question about it 6 times in a row...
    Starmer living rent-free inside your head still I see.
    Still making the same tedious point word for word, I see. No wonder you excelled in your legal exams :wink:
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,599
    edited July 2020
    LadyG said:

    There's a particular quality to the screaming in this video

    https://twitter.com/JackPosobiec/status/1280634854753910785?s=20

    Theodore Dalrymple / Anthony Daniels wrote memorably about the love for destruction in his book about the Liberian civil war, "Monrovia Mon Amour".

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Monrovia-Mon-Amour-Visit-Liberia/dp/0719550254
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222
    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    At the moment Sunak is popular for helping businesses with the furlough scheme.

    However the test for him will come in December, if Boris ends the transition period and goes to WTO terms and Sunak does not resign he will lose popularity with Remain voters, if however he does resign if no deal is agreed with the EU then he will lose popularity with the Tory membership who will elect the next leader and want a hard Brexit.

    His prospects therefore depend on there being a deal with the EU but that also means Boris will probably remain popular enough to stay PM anyway

    I wish people would stop pretending WTO is a possibility. It isn't. Bigging it up just plays into Johnson's hands - which is perhaps your motive for doing it?

    It allows Johnson to trumpet the inevitable close alignment deal as a victory snatched from the jaws of defeat. Also to benefit from relief that something which was never going to happen is not going to happen.
    Ah, I see what you are up to.

    Interesting that Labour`s monkeying around last year was predicated partly on wanting to avoid WTO which, you say, has never been a possibility.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,837

    https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1280838173669670912

    At some point, the Government is going to have to disappoint somebody

    Its smoke and mirrors. Take 9.4 bn. Just nonsense.

    Of the 9.4 million who have been furloughed, there will be a couple of million or more back at work already, a couple of million who will be unemployed by January, a few hundred thousand voluntarily changing jobs by January.

    So the real cost is maybe half the number they published.

    The very first number they gave was the £300 bn loan scheme. By the end of May it had lent £6bn.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1280838173669670912

    At some point, the Government is going to have to disappoint somebody

    The stimulus will cost £200bn but the Bank of England have purchased £300bn of bonds.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226
    MattW said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    VAT on hospitality and leisure industry to 5%

    Couldn't do that while we were still in the EU.
    A month ago: "Calls for UK to copy Germany with VAT cut and stimulus"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2020/06/04/germany-launches-130bn-stimulus-kickstart-economy/
    Yep. Just copy Germany. That's the way.

    Wonder if we'll get the more difficult stuff too like the German Green New Deal?
    German health system would be useful, if the UK didn't treat their own as if it were a religion.
    Yes we'll have that too. But they spend more remember.
    Indeed they do, although the numbers are dependent on many other factors.
    Tax breaks at 40% for private insurance in the UK would have the same effect on spending, that would be a good starting point.
    An insurance model would be fine - so long as the state pays if you can't afford it. I'm far more sanguine about private healthcare than I am about private schools.
    Private schools also offer scholarships and bursaries
    I think the amount they fund is pretty much a billion a year.

    I still don't understand people with visceral opposition to independent schools.

    'We support high standards, and we're going to do it by destroying the places with the greatest diversity and the highest standards'.
    It's about equality of opportunity. If this is truly important to somebody they cannot (without ludicrous contortions of argument) be supportive of private schools.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited July 2020
    Not that surprising, the government wants to encourage firms to take employees back and punishing them for having done so (as it would have been interpreted) would have gone down like a lead balloon.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222
    Andy_JS said:

    LadyG said:

    There's a particular quality to the screaming in this video

    https://twitter.com/JackPosobiec/status/1280634854753910785?s=20

    Theodore Dalrymple / Anthony Daniels wrote about the love for destruction in his book about the Liberian civil war.
    Dalrymple`s books are a hoot. "If symptoms persist" is classic lavatory book material.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    Jodie Comer apparently upset the world because of who she decides to spend her own private life dating? Why should I care?

    You shouldn’t.

    https://twitter.com/RupertMyers/status/1280830897953165314?s=20
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226
    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    VAT on hospitality and leisure industry to 5%

    Couldn't do that while we were still in the EU.
    A month ago: "Calls for UK to copy Germany with VAT cut and stimulus"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2020/06/04/germany-launches-130bn-stimulus-kickstart-economy/
    Yep. Just copy Germany. That's the way.

    Wonder if we'll get the more difficult stuff too like the German Green New Deal?
    German health system would be useful, if the UK didn't treat their own as if it were a religion.
    Yes we'll have that too. But they spend more remember.
    Indeed they do, although the numbers are dependent on many other factors.
    Tax breaks at 40% for private insurance in the UK would have the same effect on spending, that would be a good starting point.
    An insurance model would be fine - so long as the state pays if you can't afford it. I'm far more sanguine about private healthcare than I am about private schools.
    Private schools also offer scholarships and bursaries
    Small fraction of the intake. The business model is premium product to affluent customers who can afford the price.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,885

    https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1280838173669670912

    At some point, the Government is going to have to disappoint somebody

    Its smoke and mirrors. Take 9.4 bn. Just nonsense.

    Of the 9.4 million who have been furloughed, there will be a couple of million or more back at work already, a couple of million who will be unemployed by January, a few hundred thousand voluntarily changing jobs by January.

    So the real cost is maybe half the number they published.

    The very first number they gave was the £300 bn loan scheme. By the end of May it had lent £6bn.
    Doiesn't the scheme apply even if workers are back? See Paul Johnson's tweet referenced elsewhere in the thread.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    VAT on hospitality and leisure industry to 5%

    Couldn't do that while we were still in the EU.
    A month ago: "Calls for UK to copy Germany with VAT cut and stimulus"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2020/06/04/germany-launches-130bn-stimulus-kickstart-economy/
    Yep. Just copy Germany. That's the way.

    Wonder if we'll get the more difficult stuff too like the German Green New Deal?
    German health system would be useful, if the UK didn't treat their own as if it were a religion.
    Yes we'll have that too. But they spend more remember.
    Indeed they do, although the numbers are dependent on many other factors.
    Tax breaks at 40% for private insurance in the UK would have the same effect on spending, that would be a good starting point.
    An insurance model would be fine - so long as the state pays if you can't afford it. I'm far more sanguine about private healthcare than I am about private schools.
    Private schools also offer scholarships and bursaries
    Small fraction of the intake. The business model is premium product to affluent customers who can afford the price.
    Smart business.
  • Be interested to see what the BoE Governor says, whether he will in effect undermine or support the Government approach
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,464
    Rain stopped play. Def. summer.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,862
    So modern dilemmas, Rishi style. Do I keep employing my wife, bring her back from furlough and claim my £1,000 or do I look to employ a bright young thing under the kickstart scheme instead?

    My wife has doubts about the bright young thing being able to cope with the nightmare that is a digital VAT return. She has a point.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    VAT on hospitality and leisure industry to 5%

    Couldn't do that while we were still in the EU.
    A month ago: "Calls for UK to copy Germany with VAT cut and stimulus"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2020/06/04/germany-launches-130bn-stimulus-kickstart-economy/
    Yep. Just copy Germany. That's the way.

    Wonder if we'll get the more difficult stuff too like the German Green New Deal?
    German health system would be useful, if the UK didn't treat their own as if it were a religion.
    Yes we'll have that too. But they spend more remember.
    Indeed they do, although the numbers are dependent on many other factors.
    Tax breaks at 40% for private insurance in the UK would have the same effect on spending, that would be a good starting point.
    An insurance model would be fine - so long as the state pays if you can't afford it. I'm far more sanguine about private healthcare than I am about private schools.
    Private schools also offer scholarships and bursaries
    Small fraction of the intake. The business model is premium product to affluent customers who can afford the price.
    Smart business.
    Nothing to do with business. They are required to offer scholarships and bursaries to retain their charitable status.
  • coachcoach Posts: 250
    The most consistent message I see on here is how much Mr Smithson loathes Boris
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205

    Pulpstar said:

    Just had a look at the B Williams vid on twitter. She's not wearing a seatbelt.

    Have you got a link to the video? I tried searching but can just see lots of people saying "I've seen the video" and what they think rather than the actual video.
    Check your vanilla
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226
    IshmaelZ said:

    MaxPB said:

    No VAT cut on beer and wine seems like the biggest error to me, probably stems from having a teetotaller chancellor.

    Not wanting to piss off the muslim vote?

    Not wanting, in the next heatwave, to have it pointed out that the general non-social-distanced mayhem was partly fuelled by government sponsored three-day happy hours?
    Think more likely the latter. And perhaps just a certain reluctance in government to be what could be - albeit at a stretch - described as pushing drugs.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,837
    Carnyx said:

    https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1280838173669670912

    At some point, the Government is going to have to disappoint somebody

    Its smoke and mirrors. Take 9.4 bn. Just nonsense.

    Of the 9.4 million who have been furloughed, there will be a couple of million or more back at work already, a couple of million who will be unemployed by January, a few hundred thousand voluntarily changing jobs by January.

    So the real cost is maybe half the number they published.

    The very first number they gave was the £300 bn loan scheme. By the end of May it had lent £6bn.
    Doiesn't the scheme apply even if workers are back? See Paul Johnson's tweet referenced elsewhere in the thread.
    Hope so? Its not what he said in his speech, but would be welcome. The published paper from the govt says details by end of July. Obviously Paul Johnson might have got a clear clarification.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,434
    I can see what the government is trying to do with the £1k jobs bonus, but if it's only payable in arrears at the end of January then I don't think it helps a huge amount. If they were bunging the money to companies earlier then it would help with cashflow.

    Hope it all works.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,902
    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    At the moment Sunak is popular for helping businesses with the furlough scheme.

    However the test for him will come in December, if Boris ends the transition period and goes to WTO terms and Sunak does not resign he will lose popularity with Remain voters, if however he does resign if no deal is agreed with the EU then he will lose popularity with the Tory membership who will elect the next leader and want a hard Brexit.

    His prospects therefore depend on there being a deal with the EU but that also means Boris will probably remain popular enough to stay PM anyway

    I wish people would stop pretending WTO is a possibility. It isn't. Bigging it up just plays into Johnson's hands - which is perhaps your motive for doing it?

    It allows Johnson to trumpet the inevitable close alignment deal as a victory snatched from the jaws of defeat. Also to benefit from relief that something which was never going to happen is not going to happen.
    Ah, I see what you are up to.

    Interesting that Labour`s monkeying around last year was predicated partly on wanting to avoid WTO which, you say, has never been a possibility.
    WTO may be impossible but it is also inevitable unless an alternative is agreed...
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Just had a look at the B Williams vid on twitter. She's not wearing a seatbelt.

    Have you got a link to the video? I tried searching but can just see lots of people saying "I've seen the video" and what they think rather than the actual video.
    Check your vanilla
    Thanks.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,862

    Be interested to see what the BoE Governor says, whether he will in effect undermine or support the Government approach

    Presumably that is why he is addressing the 22 today. I doubt the government would have arranged that if he was going to pour cold water over this.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    humbugger said:

    Dodds performance very poor, and Sunak has demolished it in response.

    Labour has a better leader than Corbyn now but a worse Shadow Chancellor than McDonnell (even though personally as a Tory I would prefer Dodds)
    McDonnell, the best Chancellor we nearly but never had?

    Certainly a case can be made.
    I don't even know who the shadow chancellor is... hardly heard a peep.
    Anneliese Dodds - or according to @HYUFD - "Gordon Brown in a skirt".
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,464
    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    VAT on hospitality and leisure industry to 5%

    Couldn't do that while we were still in the EU.
    A month ago: "Calls for UK to copy Germany with VAT cut and stimulus"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2020/06/04/germany-launches-130bn-stimulus-kickstart-economy/
    Yep. Just copy Germany. That's the way.

    Wonder if we'll get the more difficult stuff too like the German Green New Deal?
    German health system would be useful, if the UK didn't treat their own as if it were a religion.
    Yes we'll have that too. But they spend more remember.
    Indeed they do, although the numbers are dependent on many other factors.
    Tax breaks at 40% for private insurance in the UK would have the same effect on spending, that would be a good starting point.
    An insurance model would be fine - so long as the state pays if you can't afford it. I'm far more sanguine about private healthcare than I am about private schools.
    Private schools also offer scholarships and bursaries
    Small fraction of the intake. The business model is premium product to affluent customers who can afford the price.
    Granddaughter three has a 'scholarship' at such a school; amounts to 10% I think of a years fees. Drama and singing IIRC. Got an excellent singing voice at 14.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,139
    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    VAT on hospitality and leisure industry to 5%

    Couldn't do that while we were still in the EU.
    A month ago: "Calls for UK to copy Germany with VAT cut and stimulus"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2020/06/04/germany-launches-130bn-stimulus-kickstart-economy/
    Yep. Just copy Germany. That's the way.

    Wonder if we'll get the more difficult stuff too like the German Green New Deal?
    German health system would be useful, if the UK didn't treat their own as if it were a religion.
    Yes we'll have that too. But they spend more remember.
    Indeed they do, although the numbers are dependent on many other factors.
    Tax breaks at 40% for private insurance in the UK would have the same effect on spending, that would be a good starting point.
    An insurance model would be fine - so long as the state pays if you can't afford it. I'm far more sanguine about private healthcare than I am about private schools.
    Private schools also offer scholarships and bursaries
    Small fraction of the intake. The business model is premium product to affluent customers who can afford the price.
    I do not see Harrods or Waitrose or Mercedez Benz or the Ritz offering discounted products to those on lower incomes who could not otherwise afford their premium products
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221
    Andy_JS said:

    LadyG said:

    There's a particular quality to the screaming in this video

    https://twitter.com/JackPosobiec/status/1280634854753910785?s=20

    Theodore Dalrymple / Anthony Daniels wrote about the love for destruction in his book about the Liberian civil war.
    Yes, these protests have - as predicted - gone way beyond racial justice. This is quasi-religious hysteria, and, yes, love of damage for the sake of it

    Some of the videos coming out of the USA are extraordinary

    Meanwhile, crime is soaring in big cities:

    "The shootings come after a string of violent weekends in the city that have left younger children killed and injured. Gun violence in Chicago spiked Memorial Day weekend and has remained high, including a violent Fourth of July weekend during which at least 90 people were shot, 18 of them fatally."

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/at-least-17-shot-4-fatally-in-less-than-12-hours-in-chicago/ar-BB16scO6
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    edited July 2020
    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    VAT on hospitality and leisure industry to 5%

    Couldn't do that while we were still in the EU.
    A month ago: "Calls for UK to copy Germany with VAT cut and stimulus"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2020/06/04/germany-launches-130bn-stimulus-kickstart-economy/
    Yep. Just copy Germany. That's the way.

    Wonder if we'll get the more difficult stuff too like the German Green New Deal?
    German health system would be useful, if the UK didn't treat their own as if it were a religion.
    Yes we'll have that too. But they spend more remember.
    Indeed they do, although the numbers are dependent on many other factors.
    Tax breaks at 40% for private insurance in the UK would have the same effect on spending, that would be a good starting point.
    An insurance model would be fine - so long as the state pays if you can't afford it. I'm far more sanguine about private healthcare than I am about private schools.
    Private schools also offer scholarships and bursaries
    Small fraction of the intake. The business model is premium product to affluent customers who can afford the price.
    I do not see Harrods or Waitrose or Mercedez Benz or the Ritz offering discounted products to those on lower incomes who could not otherwise afford their premium products
    Like I said, they do it simply to retain their charitable status. Harrods, Waitrose, Mercedes Benz and the Ritz are not charities.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    I can see what the government is trying to do with the £1k jobs bonus, but if it's only payable in arrears at the end of January then I don't think it helps a huge amount. If they were bunging the money to companies earlier then it would help with cashflow.

    Hope it all works.

    A bung would be taken then companies let people go anyway and good luck then getting the money back.

    Paying in arrears ensures people are actually brought back.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,862
    Carnyx said:

    https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1280838173669670912

    At some point, the Government is going to have to disappoint somebody

    Its smoke and mirrors. Take 9.4 bn. Just nonsense.

    Of the 9.4 million who have been furloughed, there will be a couple of million or more back at work already, a couple of million who will be unemployed by January, a few hundred thousand voluntarily changing jobs by January.

    So the real cost is maybe half the number they published.

    The very first number they gave was the £300 bn loan scheme. By the end of May it had lent £6bn.
    Doiesn't the scheme apply even if workers are back? See Paul Johnson's tweet referenced elsewhere in the thread.
    It must do because many people have been on furlough on rotation. Our clerks, for example, are doing 3 weeks on, three weeks furloughed reducing their numbers to 50% reflecting the volume of business currently being processed.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,464
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    humbugger said:

    Dodds performance very poor, and Sunak has demolished it in response.

    Labour has a better leader than Corbyn now but a worse Shadow Chancellor than McDonnell (even though personally as a Tory I would prefer Dodds)
    McDonnell, the best Chancellor we nearly but never had?

    Certainly a case can be made.
    I don't even know who the shadow chancellor is... hardly heard a peep.
    Anneliese Dodds - or according to @HYUFD - "Gordon Brown in a skirt".
    Has Brown ever been seen in a kilt?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    humbugger said:

    Dodds performance very poor, and Sunak has demolished it in response.

    Labour has a better leader than Corbyn now but a worse Shadow Chancellor than McDonnell (even though personally as a Tory I would prefer Dodds)
    McDonnell, the best Chancellor we nearly but never had?

    Certainly a case can be made.
    That has to go on a list.
    :smile: - Go for it.

    As to THE list. Now 8 fold. Will soon need a new sheet of paper at this rate.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited July 2020
    Has there been any news for a while from the face-to-face Brexit talks?

    Is the lack of news, the lack of bombast a good sign? Are we entering a "tunnel" phase of proper negotiations and compromises on both sides?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,370
    kinabalu said:

    MattW said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    VAT on hospitality and leisure industry to 5%

    Couldn't do that while we were still in the EU.
    A month ago: "Calls for UK to copy Germany with VAT cut and stimulus"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2020/06/04/germany-launches-130bn-stimulus-kickstart-economy/
    Yep. Just copy Germany. That's the way.

    Wonder if we'll get the more difficult stuff too like the German Green New Deal?
    German health system would be useful, if the UK didn't treat their own as if it were a religion.
    Yes we'll have that too. But they spend more remember.
    Indeed they do, although the numbers are dependent on many other factors.
    Tax breaks at 40% for private insurance in the UK would have the same effect on spending, that would be a good starting point.
    An insurance model would be fine - so long as the state pays if you can't afford it. I'm far more sanguine about private healthcare than I am about private schools.
    Private schools also offer scholarships and bursaries
    I think the amount they fund is pretty much a billion a year.

    I still don't understand people with visceral opposition to independent schools.

    'We support high standards, and we're going to do it by destroying the places with the greatest diversity and the highest standards'.
    It's about equality of opportunity. If this is truly important to somebody they cannot (without ludicrous contortions of argument) be supportive of private schools.
    Why then, not advocate destroying the excessively successful *state* schools. The effect they have on life outcome is just as extreme, in many cases.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    humbugger said:

    Dodds performance very poor, and Sunak has demolished it in response.

    Labour has a better leader than Corbyn now but a worse Shadow Chancellor than McDonnell (even though personally as a Tory I would prefer Dodds)
    McDonnell, the best Chancellor we nearly but never had?

    Certainly a case can be made.
    That has to go on a list.
    :smile: - Go for it.

    As to THE list. Now 8 fold. Will soon need a new sheet of paper at this rate.
    From memory only 2 of the 8 were things I've actually said rather than you misrepresenting me.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,464
    Will be interesting to learn Ms Cyclefree's opinion of the hospitality assistance.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226
    edited July 2020

    kinabalu said:

    MattW said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    VAT on hospitality and leisure industry to 5%

    Couldn't do that while we were still in the EU.
    A month ago: "Calls for UK to copy Germany with VAT cut and stimulus"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2020/06/04/germany-launches-130bn-stimulus-kickstart-economy/
    Yep. Just copy Germany. That's the way.

    Wonder if we'll get the more difficult stuff too like the German Green New Deal?
    German health system would be useful, if the UK didn't treat their own as if it were a religion.
    Yes we'll have that too. But they spend more remember.
    Indeed they do, although the numbers are dependent on many other factors.
    Tax breaks at 40% for private insurance in the UK would have the same effect on spending, that would be a good starting point.
    An insurance model would be fine - so long as the state pays if you can't afford it. I'm far more sanguine about private healthcare than I am about private schools.
    Private schools also offer scholarships and bursaries
    I think the amount they fund is pretty much a billion a year.

    I still don't understand people with visceral opposition to independent schools.

    'We support high standards, and we're going to do it by destroying the places with the greatest diversity and the highest standards'.
    It's about equality of opportunity. If this is truly important to somebody they cannot (without ludicrous contortions of argument) be supportive of private schools.
    Why then, not advocate destroying the excessively successful *state* schools. The effect they have on life outcome is just as extreme, in many cases.
    The goal is schools of a high and similar standard for everyone with no fees.
  • No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 4,528
    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    VAT on hospitality and leisure industry to 5%

    Couldn't do that while we were still in the EU.
    A month ago: "Calls for UK to copy Germany with VAT cut and stimulus"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2020/06/04/germany-launches-130bn-stimulus-kickstart-economy/
    Yep. Just copy Germany. That's the way.

    Wonder if we'll get the more difficult stuff too like the German Green New Deal?
    German health system would be useful, if the UK didn't treat their own as if it were a religion.
    Yes we'll have that too. But they spend more remember.
    Indeed they do, although the numbers are dependent on many other factors.
    Tax breaks at 40% for private insurance in the UK would have the same effect on spending, that would be a good starting point.
    An insurance model would be fine - so long as the state pays if you can't afford it. I'm far more sanguine about private healthcare than I am about private schools.
    Private schools also offer scholarships and bursaries
    Small fraction of the intake. The business model is premium product to affluent customers who can afford the price.
    I do not see Harrods or Waitrose or Mercedez Benz or the Ritz offering discounted products to those on lower incomes who could not otherwise afford their premium products
    The private schools need the bright poor kids to boost their exam league table standing. Relying on the rich thick kids wouldn't be good enough.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,139
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    humbugger said:

    Dodds performance very poor, and Sunak has demolished it in response.

    Labour has a better leader than Corbyn now but a worse Shadow Chancellor than McDonnell (even though personally as a Tory I would prefer Dodds)
    McDonnell, the best Chancellor we nearly but never had?

    Certainly a case can be made.
    I don't even know who the shadow chancellor is... hardly heard a peep.
    Anneliese Dodds - or according to @HYUFD - "Gordon Brown in a skirt".
    No, Brown was more heavyweight, she is the weakest Shadow Chancellor since Francis Maude
  • I get 50% off meals with my car insurance, I really am not convinced this will do anything to stimulate demand but as always, hope I am wrong
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,885
    edited July 2020

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    humbugger said:

    Dodds performance very poor, and Sunak has demolished it in response.

    Labour has a better leader than Corbyn now but a worse Shadow Chancellor than McDonnell (even though personally as a Tory I would prefer Dodds)
    McDonnell, the best Chancellor we nearly but never had?

    Certainly a case can be made.
    I don't even know who the shadow chancellor is... hardly heard a peep.
    Anneliese Dodds - or according to @HYUFD - "Gordon Brown in a skirt".
    Has Brown ever been seen in a kilt?
    Why should he? He's a Lowlander and son of the Manse. He certainly didn't wear one when he married - the only time many a Scot wears one.

    I rather doubt it, for he always refused to be called Scottish, at least when he was PM - IIRC he only admitted it once, to an American radio show host. "British" was preferred.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935

    I get 50% off meals with my car insurance, I really am not convinced this will do anything to stimulate demand but as always, hope I am wrong

    Is that a one-time thing, or can you do it for every meal?
  • kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    humbugger said:

    Dodds performance very poor, and Sunak has demolished it in response.

    Labour has a better leader than Corbyn now but a worse Shadow Chancellor than McDonnell (even though personally as a Tory I would prefer Dodds)
    McDonnell, the best Chancellor we nearly but never had?

    Certainly a case can be made.
    That has to go on a list.
    :smile: - Go for it.

    As to THE list. Now 8 fold. Will soon need a new sheet of paper at this rate.
    What's the list?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    VAT on hospitality and leisure industry to 5%

    Couldn't do that while we were still in the EU.
    A month ago: "Calls for UK to copy Germany with VAT cut and stimulus"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2020/06/04/germany-launches-130bn-stimulus-kickstart-economy/
    Yep. Just copy Germany. That's the way.

    Wonder if we'll get the more difficult stuff too like the German Green New Deal?
    German health system would be useful, if the UK didn't treat their own as if it were a religion.
    Yes we'll have that too. But they spend more remember.
    Indeed they do, although the numbers are dependent on many other factors.
    Tax breaks at 40% for private insurance in the UK would have the same effect on spending, that would be a good starting point.
    An insurance model would be fine - so long as the state pays if you can't afford it. I'm far more sanguine about private healthcare than I am about private schools.
    Private schools also offer scholarships and bursaries
    Small fraction of the intake. The business model is premium product to affluent customers who can afford the price.
    I do not see Harrods or Waitrose or Mercedez Benz or the Ritz offering discounted products to those on lower incomes who could not otherwise afford their premium products
    Like I said, they do it simply to retain their charitable status. Harrods, Waitrose, Mercedes Benz and the Ritz are not charities.
    Yes. It's a fig leaf.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,434
    kinabalu said:

    MattW said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    VAT on hospitality and leisure industry to 5%

    Couldn't do that while we were still in the EU.
    A month ago: "Calls for UK to copy Germany with VAT cut and stimulus"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2020/06/04/germany-launches-130bn-stimulus-kickstart-economy/
    Yep. Just copy Germany. That's the way.

    Wonder if we'll get the more difficult stuff too like the German Green New Deal?
    German health system would be useful, if the UK didn't treat their own as if it were a religion.
    Yes we'll have that too. But they spend more remember.
    Indeed they do, although the numbers are dependent on many other factors.
    Tax breaks at 40% for private insurance in the UK would have the same effect on spending, that would be a good starting point.
    An insurance model would be fine - so long as the state pays if you can't afford it. I'm far more sanguine about private healthcare than I am about private schools.
    Private schools also offer scholarships and bursaries
    I think the amount they fund is pretty much a billion a year.

    I still don't understand people with visceral opposition to independent schools.

    'We support high standards, and we're going to do it by destroying the places with the greatest diversity and the highest standards'.
    It's about equality of opportunity. If this is truly important to somebody they cannot (without ludicrous contortions of argument) be supportive of private schools.
    I think equality of opportunity is a red herring anyway. I'm not okay with people in unskilled jobs being punished for "failing" even if they had an equal opportunity to succeed.

    Someone has to do those jobs in the end, and they should be able to live with dignity while doing so.

    That's more important than trying to force the Middle Class into participating on a level playing field. And if you can live with dignity at the bottom of the heap then equality of opportunity is less threatening to those currently at the top of the pile.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    I get 50% off meals with my car insurance, I really am not convinced this will do anything to stimulate demand but as always, hope I am wrong

    The difference is with your car insurance the restaurant only gets paid 50% of the bill. Your car insurance company isn't paying the difference, its just a glorified marketing scheme.

    With this scheme the restaurant gets paid 100% of the bill. The government is actually paying the difference which can then pay your waiters wages etc
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    VAT on hospitality and leisure industry to 5%

    Couldn't do that while we were still in the EU.
    A month ago: "Calls for UK to copy Germany with VAT cut and stimulus"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2020/06/04/germany-launches-130bn-stimulus-kickstart-economy/
    Yep. Just copy Germany. That's the way.

    Wonder if we'll get the more difficult stuff too like the German Green New Deal?
    German health system would be useful, if the UK didn't treat their own as if it were a religion.
    Yes we'll have that too. But they spend more remember.
    Indeed they do, although the numbers are dependent on many other factors.
    Tax breaks at 40% for private insurance in the UK would have the same effect on spending, that would be a good starting point.
    An insurance model would be fine - so long as the state pays if you can't afford it. I'm far more sanguine about private healthcare than I am about private schools.
    Private schools also offer scholarships and bursaries
    Small fraction of the intake. The business model is premium product to affluent customers who can afford the price.
    I do not see Harrods or Waitrose or Mercedez Benz or the Ritz offering discounted products to those on lower incomes who could not otherwise afford their premium products
    Like I said, they do it simply to retain their charitable status. Harrods, Waitrose, Mercedes Benz and the Ritz are not charities.
    Yes. It's a fig leaf.
    Saying that, I’m not against private schools. I don’t really care about them. I’d rather simply improve state schools.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    humbugger said:

    Dodds performance very poor, and Sunak has demolished it in response.

    Labour has a better leader than Corbyn now but a worse Shadow Chancellor than McDonnell (even though personally as a Tory I would prefer Dodds)
    McDonnell, the best Chancellor we nearly but never had?

    Certainly a case can be made.
    I don't even know who the shadow chancellor is... hardly heard a peep.
    Anneliese Dodds - or according to @HYUFD - "Gordon Brown in a skirt".
    No, Brown was more heavyweight, she is the weakest Shadow Chancellor since Francis Maude
    She is better than Chris Leslie!
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,862
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    humbugger said:

    Dodds performance very poor, and Sunak has demolished it in response.

    Labour has a better leader than Corbyn now but a worse Shadow Chancellor than McDonnell (even though personally as a Tory I would prefer Dodds)
    McDonnell, the best Chancellor we nearly but never had?

    Certainly a case can be made.
    I don't even know who the shadow chancellor is... hardly heard a peep.
    Anneliese Dodds - or according to @HYUFD - "Gordon Brown in a skirt".
    (words I thought I would never say) That's extremely unfair on Gordon Brown who was mendacious, manipulative, untrustworthy, had very poor judgement (we get it, ed) but was undoubtedly formidable both in office and in the Commons.

    SKS has a problem with Dodds, she is just not up to it, not even close. What he would give for the likes of Ed Balls who might have given Rishi a run for his money.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,139
    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    humbugger said:

    Dodds performance very poor, and Sunak has demolished it in response.

    Labour has a better leader than Corbyn now but a worse Shadow Chancellor than McDonnell (even though personally as a Tory I would prefer Dodds)
    McDonnell, the best Chancellor we nearly but never had?

    Certainly a case can be made.
    I don't even know who the shadow chancellor is... hardly heard a peep.
    Anneliese Dodds - or according to @HYUFD - "Gordon Brown in a skirt".
    No, Brown was more heavyweight, she is the weakest Shadow Chancellor since Francis Maude
    She is better than Chris Leslie!
    He was only a temp after Miliband left
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    VAT on hospitality and leisure industry to 5%

    Couldn't do that while we were still in the EU.
    A month ago: "Calls for UK to copy Germany with VAT cut and stimulus"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2020/06/04/germany-launches-130bn-stimulus-kickstart-economy/
    Yep. Just copy Germany. That's the way.

    Wonder if we'll get the more difficult stuff too like the German Green New Deal?
    German health system would be useful, if the UK didn't treat their own as if it were a religion.
    Yes we'll have that too. But they spend more remember.
    Indeed they do, although the numbers are dependent on many other factors.
    Tax breaks at 40% for private insurance in the UK would have the same effect on spending, that would be a good starting point.
    An insurance model would be fine - so long as the state pays if you can't afford it. I'm far more sanguine about private healthcare than I am about private schools.
    Private schools also offer scholarships and bursaries
    Small fraction of the intake. The business model is premium product to affluent customers who can afford the price.
    Granddaughter three has a 'scholarship' at such a school; amounts to 10% I think of a years fees. Drama and singing IIRC. Got an excellent singing voice at 14.
    Keep her away from Simon Cowell whatever else happens.

    10% off - every little helps!
  • RobD said:

    I get 50% off meals with my car insurance, I really am not convinced this will do anything to stimulate demand but as always, hope I am wrong

    Is that a one-time thing, or can you do it for every meal?
    Every meal for a year and then when you renew you get it all over again.

    I also get 2 for 1 at the cinema, it’s genuinely a really good deal.

    I am not using either now as I won’t take the risk.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,249
    edited July 2020
    Carnyx said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    humbugger said:

    Dodds performance very poor, and Sunak has demolished it in response.

    Labour has a better leader than Corbyn now but a worse Shadow Chancellor than McDonnell (even though personally as a Tory I would prefer Dodds)
    McDonnell, the best Chancellor we nearly but never had?

    Certainly a case can be made.
    I don't even know who the shadow chancellor is... hardly heard a peep.
    Anneliese Dodds - or according to @HYUFD - "Gordon Brown in a skirt".
    Has Brown ever been seen in a kilt?
    Why should he? He's a Lowlander and son of the Manse. He certainly didn't wear one when he married - the only time many a Scot wears one.

    I rather doubt it, for he always refused to be called Scottish, at least when he was PM - IIRC he only admitted it once, to an American radio show host. "British" was preferred.
    Broon in a kilt.

    Now that thought has spoilt my afternoon lunch. The most unsuitable combination since Ernie Wise and his toupee.

    The nearest I can think of is Ed Balls in a football kit. Until I spotted one in a leotard...

    image
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935

    RobD said:

    I get 50% off meals with my car insurance, I really am not convinced this will do anything to stimulate demand but as always, hope I am wrong

    Is that a one-time thing, or can you do it for every meal?
    Every meal for a year and then when you renew you get it all over again.

    I also get 2 for 1 at the cinema, it’s genuinely a really good deal.

    I am not using either now as I won’t take the risk.
    Sounds like the old Orange promotion for the cinema. Still, not everyone has paid for that scheme so it should promote some demand.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    TOPPING said:

    Excellent article on the Graun.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jul/08/lockdown-pointing-finger-rule-breakers-britons-pints

    @contrarian one for you especially but every word is spot on imo.

    Haha yes... the anger Farage invoked by having a pint!

    "Ah how nice it is to be able to go down an English pub, one of life's true pleasures, the way the open fire rests listlessly as birds sing in the tr...... hang on, what's this?! Please Sir! He is having a pint in an empty pub and only got back off holiday thirteen days, sixteen hours and twenty three minutes ago!!!"
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    VAT on hospitality and leisure industry to 5%

    Couldn't do that while we were still in the EU.
    A month ago: "Calls for UK to copy Germany with VAT cut and stimulus"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2020/06/04/germany-launches-130bn-stimulus-kickstart-economy/
    Yep. Just copy Germany. That's the way.

    Wonder if we'll get the more difficult stuff too like the German Green New Deal?
    German health system would be useful, if the UK didn't treat their own as if it were a religion.
    Yes we'll have that too. But they spend more remember.
    Indeed they do, although the numbers are dependent on many other factors.
    Tax breaks at 40% for private insurance in the UK would have the same effect on spending, that would be a good starting point.
    An insurance model would be fine - so long as the state pays if you can't afford it. I'm far more sanguine about private healthcare than I am about private schools.
    Private schools also offer scholarships and bursaries
    Small fraction of the intake. The business model is premium product to affluent customers who can afford the price.
    Smart business.
    Yes indeed.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,139
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    MattW said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    VAT on hospitality and leisure industry to 5%

    Couldn't do that while we were still in the EU.
    A month ago: "Calls for UK to copy Germany with VAT cut and stimulus"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2020/06/04/germany-launches-130bn-stimulus-kickstart-economy/
    Yep. Just copy Germany. That's the way.

    Wonder if we'll get the more difficult stuff too like the German Green New Deal?
    German health system would be useful, if the UK didn't treat their own as if it were a religion.
    Yes we'll have that too. But they spend more remember.
    Indeed they do, although the numbers are dependent on many other factors.
    Tax breaks at 40% for private insurance in the UK would have the same effect on spending, that would be a good starting point.
    An insurance model would be fine - so long as the state pays if you can't afford it. I'm far more sanguine about private healthcare than I am about private schools.
    Private schools also offer scholarships and bursaries
    I think the amount they fund is pretty much a billion a year.

    I still don't understand people with visceral opposition to independent schools.

    'We support high standards, and we're going to do it by destroying the places with the greatest diversity and the highest standards'.
    It's about equality of opportunity. If this is truly important to somebody they cannot (without ludicrous contortions of argument) be supportive of private schools.
    Why then, not advocate destroying the excessively successful *state* schools. The effect they have on life outcome is just as extreme, in many cases.
    The goal is schools of a high and similar standard for everyone with no fees.
    Impossible given different catchment areas, selective grammar schools, church state schools requiring a vicar's note to enter etc
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,370
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    MattW said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    VAT on hospitality and leisure industry to 5%

    Couldn't do that while we were still in the EU.
    A month ago: "Calls for UK to copy Germany with VAT cut and stimulus"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2020/06/04/germany-launches-130bn-stimulus-kickstart-economy/
    Yep. Just copy Germany. That's the way.

    Wonder if we'll get the more difficult stuff too like the German Green New Deal?
    German health system would be useful, if the UK didn't treat their own as if it were a religion.
    Yes we'll have that too. But they spend more remember.
    Indeed they do, although the numbers are dependent on many other factors.
    Tax breaks at 40% for private insurance in the UK would have the same effect on spending, that would be a good starting point.
    An insurance model would be fine - so long as the state pays if you can't afford it. I'm far more sanguine about private healthcare than I am about private schools.
    Private schools also offer scholarships and bursaries
    I think the amount they fund is pretty much a billion a year.

    I still don't understand people with visceral opposition to independent schools.

    'We support high standards, and we're going to do it by destroying the places with the greatest diversity and the highest standards'.
    It's about equality of opportunity. If this is truly important to somebody they cannot (without ludicrous contortions of argument) be supportive of private schools.
    Why then, not advocate destroying the excessively successful *state* schools. The effect they have on life outcome is just as extreme, in many cases.
    The goal is schools of a high and similar standard for everyone with no fees.
    So you would need to destroy all non-bog-standard-comprehensives.

    Then what do you do about the comprehensives that have private school levels of success? Destroy them as well?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,466

    Eng. 0-1

    Toss decision just looked wrong

    They seem to feel the at the pitch is very dry, so will be good to bat on first, and bowl 4th. Good be tricky though if they end up skittled for 50...
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,914
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    I get 50% off meals with my car insurance, I really am not convinced this will do anything to stimulate demand but as always, hope I am wrong

    Is that a one-time thing, or can you do it for every meal?
    Every meal for a year and then when you renew you get it all over again.

    I also get 2 for 1 at the cinema, it’s genuinely a really good deal.

    I am not using either now as I won’t take the risk.
    Sounds like the old Orange promotion for the cinema. Still, not everyone has paid for that scheme so it should promote some demand.
    I think Meerkat took over from Orange.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    RobD said:

    I get 50% off meals with my car insurance, I really am not convinced this will do anything to stimulate demand but as always, hope I am wrong

    Is that a one-time thing, or can you do it for every meal?
    If its the scheme I'm thinking of it has many faces (insurance, Meerkat Meals) but its real name is Tastecard. You get 2-4-1 or 50% off early week - but only at limited restaurants that have signed up to the scheme and the restaurants don't get a penny from Tastecard they're simply running an early week promotion and getting publicity from it.

    The government's proposed scheme is different. More companies can sign up (not just those that are involved with Tastecard) and they get the bill paid in full (which Tastecard don't do).
  • RobD said:

    RobD said:

    I get 50% off meals with my car insurance, I really am not convinced this will do anything to stimulate demand but as always, hope I am wrong

    Is that a one-time thing, or can you do it for every meal?
    Every meal for a year and then when you renew you get it all over again.

    I also get 2 for 1 at the cinema, it’s genuinely a really good deal.

    I am not using either now as I won’t take the risk.
    Sounds like the old Orange promotion for the cinema. Still, not everyone has paid for that scheme so it should promote some demand.
    They took it over I think, so that’s right.

    A lot of people do use it, everyone I know does something along those lines.

    I hope it does stimulate demand but I just can’t see it myself. Fundamentally people are afraid to go outside and no money is going to change that, in my view.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,139

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    MattW said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    VAT on hospitality and leisure industry to 5%

    Couldn't do that while we were still in the EU.
    A month ago: "Calls for UK to copy Germany with VAT cut and stimulus"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2020/06/04/germany-launches-130bn-stimulus-kickstart-economy/
    Yep. Just copy Germany. That's the way.

    Wonder if we'll get the more difficult stuff too like the German Green New Deal?
    German health system would be useful, if the UK didn't treat their own as if it were a religion.
    Yes we'll have that too. But they spend more remember.
    Indeed they do, although the numbers are dependent on many other factors.
    Tax breaks at 40% for private insurance in the UK would have the same effect on spending, that would be a good starting point.
    An insurance model would be fine - so long as the state pays if you can't afford it. I'm far more sanguine about private healthcare than I am about private schools.
    Private schools also offer scholarships and bursaries
    I think the amount they fund is pretty much a billion a year.

    I still don't understand people with visceral opposition to independent schools.

    'We support high standards, and we're going to do it by destroying the places with the greatest diversity and the highest standards'.
    It's about equality of opportunity. If this is truly important to somebody they cannot (without ludicrous contortions of argument) be supportive of private schools.
    Why then, not advocate destroying the excessively successful *state* schools. The effect they have on life outcome is just as extreme, in many cases.
    The goal is schools of a high and similar standard for everyone with no fees.
    So you would need to destroy all non-bog-standard-comprehensives.

    Then what do you do about the comprehensives that have private school levels of success? Destroy them as well?
    Yes, then everyone can be equally badly educated, another socialist triumph of equality!
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    I get 50% off meals with my car insurance, I really am not convinced this will do anything to stimulate demand but as always, hope I am wrong

    Is that a one-time thing, or can you do it for every meal?
    Every meal for a year and then when you renew you get it all over again.

    I also get 2 for 1 at the cinema, it’s genuinely a really good deal.

    I am not using either now as I won’t take the risk.
    Sounds like the old Orange promotion for the cinema. Still, not everyone has paid for that scheme so it should promote some demand.
    They took it over I think, so that’s right.

    A lot of people do use it, everyone I know does something along those lines.

    I hope it does stimulate demand but I just can’t see it myself. Fundamentally people are afraid to go outside and no money is going to change that, in my view.
    Every little helps, and it might tip the balance for quite a few businesses.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,249
    isam said:

    MattW said:

    Insofar as this is anything more than a stunt, I don't think this manifesto is going to be snapping up more Biden than Trump voters.

    https://twitter.com/guardian/status/1280822437391761410?s=20

    Oh dear.

    He's about to get cancelled.
    Wait til they find out how many times he’s used the N-word
    Neoliberal...
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    I get 50% off meals with my car insurance, I really am not convinced this will do anything to stimulate demand but as always, hope I am wrong

    Is that a one-time thing, or can you do it for every meal?
    Every meal for a year and then when you renew you get it all over again.

    I also get 2 for 1 at the cinema, it’s genuinely a really good deal.

    I am not using either now as I won’t take the risk.
    Sounds like the old Orange promotion for the cinema. Still, not everyone has paid for that scheme so it should promote some demand.
    They took it over I think, so that’s right.

    A lot of people do use it, everyone I know does something along those lines.

    I hope it does stimulate demand but I just can’t see it myself. Fundamentally people are afraid to go outside and no money is going to change that, in my view.
    Every little helps, and it might tip the balance for quite a few businesses.
    Potentially quite significantly. Since the bill is paid in full with this scheme (rather than simply half the bill getting paid) the restaurant is getting twice as much money coming in but with the same Cost Of Goods Sold.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935
    MattW said:

    isam said:

    MattW said:

    Insofar as this is anything more than a stunt, I don't think this manifesto is going to be snapping up more Biden than Trump voters.

    https://twitter.com/guardian/status/1280822437391761410?s=20

    Oh dear.

    He's about to get cancelled.
    Wait til they find out how many times he’s used the N-word
    Neoliberal...
    NOtoAV, actually.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,405

    Has there been any news for a while from the face-to-face Brexit talks?

    Is the lack of news, the lack of bombast a good sign? Are we entering a "tunnel" phase of proper negotiations and compromises on both sides?

    We are in a phase of proper negotiations - compromises will only be discovered once we see the final deal.

    Remember when we started this plan, deals with China and the USA made sense, 4 years later do deals with either country now make the same amount of sense?
  • RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    I get 50% off meals with my car insurance, I really am not convinced this will do anything to stimulate demand but as always, hope I am wrong

    Is that a one-time thing, or can you do it for every meal?
    Every meal for a year and then when you renew you get it all over again.

    I also get 2 for 1 at the cinema, it’s genuinely a really good deal.

    I am not using either now as I won’t take the risk.
    Sounds like the old Orange promotion for the cinema. Still, not everyone has paid for that scheme so it should promote some demand.
    They took it over I think, so that’s right.

    A lot of people do use it, everyone I know does something along those lines.

    I hope it does stimulate demand but I just can’t see it myself. Fundamentally people are afraid to go outside and no money is going to change that, in my view.
    Every little helps, and it might tip the balance for quite a few businesses.
    Hope so. Think it’s unlikely though but hope I’m wrong
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226
    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    At the moment Sunak is popular for helping businesses with the furlough scheme.

    However the test for him will come in December, if Boris ends the transition period and goes to WTO terms and Sunak does not resign he will lose popularity with Remain voters, if however he does resign if no deal is agreed with the EU then he will lose popularity with the Tory membership who will elect the next leader and want a hard Brexit.

    His prospects therefore depend on there being a deal with the EU but that also means Boris will probably remain popular enough to stay PM anyway

    I wish people would stop pretending WTO is a possibility. It isn't. Bigging it up just plays into Johnson's hands - which is perhaps your motive for doing it?

    It allows Johnson to trumpet the inevitable close alignment deal as a victory snatched from the jaws of defeat. Also to benefit from relief that something which was never going to happen is not going to happen.
    Ah, I see what you are up to.

    Interesting that Labour`s monkeying around last year was predicated partly on wanting to avoid WTO which, you say, has never been a possibility.
    Yes that's an interesting and accurate comparison. It's all pointless now but my view back then was that the Benn Act, all of that stuff, was bad politics. We - Labour - should have called Johnson's bluff, made him own all the decisions, because he was never doing No Deal.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    This 2-4-1 thing sounds incredible. I love eating out, so this makes it much cheaper. Nice one from wor Rishi.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,222
    edited July 2020
    Navarro is almost as much of an arse as Trump.

    https://twitter.com/AndyBiotech/status/1280660764383227906
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited July 2020
    eek said:

    Has there been any news for a while from the face-to-face Brexit talks?

    Is the lack of news, the lack of bombast a good sign? Are we entering a "tunnel" phase of proper negotiations and compromises on both sides?

    We are in a phase of proper negotiations - compromises will only be discovered once we see the final deal.

    Remember when we started this plan, deals with China and the USA made sense, 4 years later do deals with either country now make the same amount of sense?
    Not China, hopefully yes to the USA after Biden takes over.

    EDIT: FWIW I wanted a trade deal with China previously, so that is a genuine change from four years ago.
This discussion has been closed.