Interesting exchange. Shagger says "we'll reform the system, nothing done for 30 years will you support" Starmer says "of course, you've been in government for 10 years why haven't you done it already?"
The prescient point being that there is a pretense that the Tories haven't been in office for a decade and instead only for a few months.
Bluekip have only been in power for a short time. Before that it was the Conservative party.
2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th questions already answered in question 1
Starmer wooden, thats absolutely true. Can't give credit to the PM though as he answers every question with angry waffle. Its 0-0 again as it was last week and the week before.
Interesting exchange. Shagger says "we'll reform the system, nothing done for 30 years will you support" Starmer says "of course, you've been in government for 10 years why haven't you done it already?"
The prescient point being that there is a pretense that the Tories haven't been in office for a decade and instead only for a few months.
Its not a pretence, this is a new government. Just because the party stays the same doesn't mean the government does.
Clear Johnson victory this week - only the second time I've said that since Starmer took over.
Starmer needs to do better at thinking on his feet when the answers are given rather than continuing with his prescripted questions.
I called it as 0-0 right up until the last question. However, "Why won't you keep free parking for NHS staff" asks Starmer. "Its our manifesto pledge to make it free for the patients as well". At which point Starmer sits there still with a mask on his face internally saying "fuuuuck". 1-0 to Shagger.
Johnson is poor. No detail. gets angry. Waffles. But it can be effective against someone who doesn't deviate from a line of questioning regardless of what the response is.
Interesting exchange. Shagger says "we'll reform the system, nothing done for 30 years will you support" Starmer says "of course, you've been in government for 10 years why haven't you done it already?"
The prescient point being that there is a pretense that the Tories haven't been in office for a decade and instead only for a few months.
Its not a pretence, this is a new government. Just because the party stays the same doesn't mean the government does.
That you actually believe that is baffling. OK so 5 years were in coalition. But since 2015 there has been continuous majority Tory government. And at any time in those 10 years in office they could have done the things he appeared to be trying to blame Labour for not doing.
Clear Johnson victory this week - only the second time I've said that since Starmer took over.
Starmer needs to do better at thinking on his feet when the answers are given rather than continuing with his prescripted questions.
I called it as 0-0 right up until the last question. However, "Why won't you keep free parking for NHS staff" asks Starmer. "Its our manifesto pledge to make it free for the patients as well". At which point Starmer sits there still with a mask on his face internally saying "fuuuuck". 1-0 to Shagger.
Johnson is poor. No detail. gets angry. Waffles. But it can be effective against someone who doesn't deviate from a line of questioning regardless of what the response is.
Transferable vouchers? If so then why not cash? If non-transferable then they must be person-specific and that may require proof of identity and imply inefficient allocation.
Because they will expire and cant be put in a bank.
I need a bright economist to help me.
If everyone gets helicopter money and I put mine in the bank, then the purpose is still fulfilled. Unless the bank sticks it in sock under the bed they put my helicopter money out to be used by someone else who at this moment needs it to spend more than I do, so it still gets spent in the real economy, which was the purpose of the helicopter money in the first place.
It's no answer to say it gets tied up in useless unproductive assets like houses if I put it in the bank. The helicopter money I use on goods and services will also in large part go to pay off mortgages etc....
Interesting exchange. Shagger says "we'll reform the system, nothing done for 30 years will you support" Starmer says "of course, you've been in government for 10 years why haven't you done it already?"
The prescient point being that there is a pretense that the Tories haven't been in office for a decade and instead only for a few months.
Its not a pretence, this is a new government. Just because the party stays the same doesn't mean the government does.
That you actually believe that is baffling. OK so 5 years were in coalition. But since 2015 there has been continuous majority Tory government. And at any time in those 10 years in office they could have done the things he appeared to be trying to blame Labour for not doing.
The people have changed. The PM has changed.
Yes Cameron could have done what Johnson now wants to do but he didn't. Condemn Cameron for it if you want. Similarly condemn May if you want - I happily do any chance I get.
We are about 11 months into Johnson's premiership and about 8 months into Johnson having a majority government.
Clear Johnson victory this week - only the second time I've said that since Starmer took over.
Starmer needs to do better at thinking on his feet when the answers are given rather than continuing with his prescripted questions.
I called it as 0-0 right up until the last question. However, "Why won't you keep free parking for NHS staff" asks Starmer. "Its our manifesto pledge to make it free for the patients as well". At which point Starmer sits there still with a mask on his face internally saying "fuuuuck". 1-0 to Shagger.
Johnson is poor. No detail. gets angry. Waffles. But it can be effective against someone who doesn't deviate from a line of questioning regardless of what the response is.
Damning of Starmer that he can't think on his feet.
Clear Johnson victory this week - only the second time I've said that since Starmer took over.
Starmer needs to do better at thinking on his feet when the answers are given rather than continuing with his prescripted questions.
I called it as 0-0 right up until the last question. However, "Why won't you keep free parking for NHS staff" asks Starmer. "Its our manifesto pledge to make it free for the patients as well". At which point Starmer sits there still with a mask on his face internally saying "fuuuuck". 1-0 to Shagger.
Johnson is poor. No detail. gets angry. Waffles. But it can be effective against someone who doesn't deviate from a line of questioning regardless of what the response is.
Sunak has done well so far in the job, he's come across as suited to the role and spoken eloquently about the difficulties we face.
The problem is that all his department has done so far his spend money, to the point where we are looking at an annual deficit to make 2009 cry. At some point, he's going to have to cut spending and raise taxes, or find a way to introduce a big dose of inflation into the economy, that's when life gets more difficult for him.
That said, he deserves our best wishes, there's no easy way out from where we are now.
Quantitative Easing.
The Bank has printed £300bn this year which means in reality how much is our deficit this year? Also prevents deflation and adds a bit of much needed inflation into the country.
What's going to matter more is future years. The deficit will have to close again, not this year but before too long.
Fundamentally we're going to have to keep tipping cash into circulation to keep large parts of the economy open. Will be a long term problem to manage that is less bad than the immediate short term contraction of money stopping circulating. If we get the suggested £1,500 in Sunak tokens (2 adults 2 kids) then I'll go and spend £1,500 in tokens in the bits of the economy they are intended for. If we don't then it'll be a few hundred maybe.
Spend the cash to keep jobs that will go otherwise in a strategically important industry? Where cash to preserve the jobs is less than the hit of not doing so? Its the 1970s redux.
If he gives us cash we will put it in the bank...
Why would you do that, at 0%? Even Premium Bonds would be better,
Clear Johnson victory this week - only the second time I've said that since Starmer took over.
Starmer needs to do better at thinking on his feet when the answers are given rather than continuing with his prescripted questions.
The people prepping those questions should get a massive bollocking. His only silver lining is that nobody will see it because he is in Sunak's mini-Budget rain shadow today.
Clear Johnson victory this week - only the second time I've said that since Starmer took over.
Starmer needs to do better at thinking on his feet when the answers are given rather than continuing with his prescripted questions.
I called it as 0-0 right up until the last question. However, "Why won't you keep free parking for NHS staff" asks Starmer. "Its our manifesto pledge to make it free for the patients as well". At which point Starmer sits there still with a mask on his face internally saying "fuuuuck". 1-0 to Shagger.
Johnson is poor. No detail. gets angry. Waffles. But it can be effective against someone who doesn't deviate from a line of questioning regardless of what the response is.
That was a brilliant response to a bear trap.
Johnson is getting better at this.
He does seem to have upped his game
Just his health steadily improving. He looks much better now and is noticeably more combative.
Clear Johnson victory this week - only the second time I've said that since Starmer took over.
Starmer needs to do better at thinking on his feet when the answers are given rather than continuing with his prescripted questions.
I called it as 0-0 right up until the last question. However, "Why won't you keep free parking for NHS staff" asks Starmer. "Its our manifesto pledge to make it free for the patients as well". At which point Starmer sits there still with a mask on his face internally saying "fuuuuck". 1-0 to Shagger.
Johnson is poor. No detail. gets angry. Waffles. But it can be effective against someone who doesn't deviate from a line of questioning regardless of what the response is.
Damning of Starmer that he can't think on his feet.
Sunak has done well so far in the job, he's come across as suited to the role and spoken eloquently about the difficulties we face.
The problem is that all his department has done so far his spend money, to the point where we are looking at an annual deficit to make 2009 cry. At some point, he's going to have to cut spending and raise taxes, or find a way to introduce a big dose of inflation into the economy, that's when life gets more difficult for him.
That said, he deserves our best wishes, there's no easy way out from where we are now.
Quantitative Easing.
The Bank has printed £300bn this year which means in reality how much is our deficit this year? Also prevents deflation and adds a bit of much needed inflation into the country.
What's going to matter more is future years. The deficit will have to close again, not this year but before too long.
Fundamentally we're going to have to keep tipping cash into circulation to keep large parts of the economy open. Will be a long term problem to manage that is less bad than the immediate short term contraction of money stopping circulating. If we get the suggested £1,500 in Sunak tokens (2 adults 2 kids) then I'll go and spend £1,500 in tokens in the bits of the economy they are intended for. If we don't then it'll be a few hundred maybe.
Spend the cash to keep jobs that will go otherwise in a strategically important industry? Where cash to preserve the jobs is less than the hit of not doing so? Its the 1970s redux.
If he gives us cash we will put it in the bank...
I would expect it to be in voucher form with no cash value
In that case, grocery shopping.
I am not going to go out and buy stuff I do not need just because somebody gave me a voucher
Transferable vouchers? If so then why not cash? If non-transferable then they must be person-specific and that may require proof of identity and imply inefficient allocation.
Because they will expire and cant be put in a bank.
I need a bright economist to help me.
If everyone gets helicopter money and I put mine in the bank, then the purpose is still fulfilled. Unless the bank sticks it in sock under the bed they put my helicopter money out to be used by someone else who at this moment needs it to spend more than I do, so it still gets spent in the real economy, which was the purpose of the helicopter money in the first place.
It's no answer to say it gets tied up in useless unproductive assets like houses if I put it in the bank. The helicopter money I use on goods and services will also in large part go to pay off mortgages etc....
So why are vouchers better than cash?
Because the money you put in (i.e. lend to) the bank doesn't get lent or paid out to someone else.
I think the likelihood is vouchers limited to specific sectors, especially restaurants etc, with a time-limit on spending them. (Probably not grocery shopping, sorry @Beibheirli_C).
@RochdalePioneers in 2007 John McDonnell stood in the Labour leadership election. If he'd won and we had Prime Minister McDonnell would you accept that was a different government to Tony Blair's Labour government and would have had different priorities and would have gone to a future election on a different manifesto?
Clear Johnson victory this week - only the second time I've said that since Starmer took over.
Starmer needs to do better at thinking on his feet when the answers are given rather than continuing with his prescripted questions.
I called it as 0-0 right up until the last question. However, "Why won't you keep free parking for NHS staff" asks Starmer. "Its our manifesto pledge to make it free for the patients as well". At which point Starmer sits there still with a mask on his face internally saying "fuuuuck". 1-0 to Shagger.
Johnson is poor. No detail. gets angry. Waffles. But it can be effective against someone who doesn't deviate from a line of questioning regardless of what the response is.
That was a brilliant response to a bear trap.
Johnson is getting better at this.
He does seem to have upped his game
Just his health steadily improving. He looks much better now and is noticeably more combative.
Sunak has done well so far in the job, he's come across as suited to the role and spoken eloquently about the difficulties we face.
The problem is that all his department has done so far his spend money, to the point where we are looking at an annual deficit to make 2009 cry. At some point, he's going to have to cut spending and raise taxes, or find a way to introduce a big dose of inflation into the economy, that's when life gets more difficult for him.
That said, he deserves our best wishes, there's no easy way out from where we are now.
Quantitative Easing.
The Bank has printed £300bn this year which means in reality how much is our deficit this year? Also prevents deflation and adds a bit of much needed inflation into the country.
What's going to matter more is future years. The deficit will have to close again, not this year but before too long.
Fundamentally we're going to have to keep tipping cash into circulation to keep large parts of the economy open. Will be a long term problem to manage that is less bad than the immediate short term contraction of money stopping circulating. If we get the suggested £1,500 in Sunak tokens (2 adults 2 kids) then I'll go and spend £1,500 in tokens in the bits of the economy they are intended for. If we don't then it'll be a few hundred maybe.
Spend the cash to keep jobs that will go otherwise in a strategically important industry? Where cash to preserve the jobs is less than the hit of not doing so? Its the 1970s redux.
If he gives us cash we will put it in the bank...
I would expect it to be in voucher form with no cash value
In that case, grocery shopping.
I am not going to go out and buy stuff I do not need just because somebody gave me a voucher
Sunak has done well so far in the job, he's come across as suited to the role and spoken eloquently about the difficulties we face.
The problem is that all his department has done so far his spend money, to the point where we are looking at an annual deficit to make 2009 cry. At some point, he's going to have to cut spending and raise taxes, or find a way to introduce a big dose of inflation into the economy, that's when life gets more difficult for him.
That said, he deserves our best wishes, there's no easy way out from where we are now.
Quantitative Easing.
The Bank has printed £300bn this year which means in reality how much is our deficit this year? Also prevents deflation and adds a bit of much needed inflation into the country.
What's going to matter more is future years. The deficit will have to close again, not this year but before too long.
Fundamentally we're going to have to keep tipping cash into circulation to keep large parts of the economy open. Will be a long term problem to manage that is less bad than the immediate short term contraction of money stopping circulating. If we get the suggested £1,500 in Sunak tokens (2 adults 2 kids) then I'll go and spend £1,500 in tokens in the bits of the economy they are intended for. If we don't then it'll be a few hundred maybe.
Spend the cash to keep jobs that will go otherwise in a strategically important industry? Where cash to preserve the jobs is less than the hit of not doing so? Its the 1970s redux.
If he gives us cash we will put it in the bank...
I would expect it to be in voucher form with no cash value
In that case, grocery shopping.
I am not going to go out and buy stuff I do not need just because somebody gave me a voucher
I doubt it will work in a supermarket. There will definitely be an aftermarket for the vouchers, you could probably sell it to someone else quite easily unless it needs to be presented with a photo ID.
F1: oh, and seen already I imagine, but it's not Hulk returning to Renault. It's Alonso.
Yeah, that one makes no sense at all. Alonso is a professional pain in the arse, and not as quick as he used to be either. He'd be much better off heading to Indycar or Le Mans series.
Transferable vouchers? If so then why not cash? If non-transferable then they must be person-specific and that may require proof of identity and imply inefficient allocation.
Because they will expire and cant be put in a bank.
I need a bright economist to help me.
If everyone gets helicopter money and I put mine in the bank, then the purpose is still fulfilled. Unless the bank sticks it in sock under the bed they put my helicopter money out to be used by someone else who at this moment needs it to spend more than I do, so it still gets spent in the real economy, which was the purpose of the helicopter money in the first place.
It's no answer to say it gets tied up in useless unproductive assets like houses if I put it in the bank. The helicopter money I use on goods and services will also in large part go to pay off mortgages etc....
So why are vouchers better than cash?
Bank lending doesnt work the way people think, they are not really lending customer deposits out to other customers. So if lots of people deposit money in the bank, they wont up customer lending by the same amount.
Transferable vouchers? If so then why not cash? If non-transferable then they must be person-specific and that may require proof of identity and imply inefficient allocation.
Because they will expire and cant be put in a bank.
I need a bright economist to help me.
If everyone gets helicopter money and I put mine in the bank, then the purpose is still fulfilled. Unless the bank sticks it in sock under the bed they put my helicopter money out to be used by someone else who at this moment needs it to spend more than I do, so it still gets spent in the real economy, which was the purpose of the helicopter money in the first place.
It's no answer to say it gets tied up in useless unproductive assets like houses if I put it in the bank. The helicopter money I use on goods and services will also in large part go to pay off mortgages etc....
So why are vouchers better than cash?
Having blood in your body isn't sufficient, to be healthy you need it circulating.
Cash circulation is the lifeblood of the economy. You spend it in a shop, the shop pays their staff and pays their suppliers, the staff spend their wages, the suppliers pay their staff and their suppliers and so on - it is all multiplied. Every pound spent may be then re-spent 12x elsewhere whereas cash in the bank just sits there doing nothing.
Vouchers allow circulation. That's the difference.
PMQs today SKS - Why are you blaiming Care Workers it's your fault BJ - Careworkers have been brilliant I take full responsibility SKS - Why are you blaming Careworkers and not taking full responsibility BJ - I just did I will say again I pay tribute to Careworkers I was not blaming them The Govt takes full responsibility SKS That's not good enough this Careworker says she is upset that the PM is blaming Careworkers. BJ Are you fooking deaf or what. SKS repeat 3rd question BJ says learn to think on your feet you stupid person. SKS NHS parking blah blah bore on BJ Its free and unlike Lab we will make it free for some patients too.
Upon reading that, were I in Boris' shoes, I'd have backed a British candidate for one of the less senior roles than DG. For DG, I'd have thrown my support behind a candidate from a third country like India or Japan, which would have been a useful friendship to cultivate.
However, perhaps he knows something that we don't - such as having some support 'in the bag' from somewhere.
The Great Voucher Giveaway that we are hearing about. I presume it will require some sort of I.T. system to run it?
Govt & IT - not a good mix. When we can expect this economy booster to be ready?
The furlough and self-employed schemes have worked just fine. Yes government IT projects do go wrong, but not always and some services are genuinely very good now.
Transferable vouchers? If so then why not cash? If non-transferable then they must be person-specific and that may require proof of identity and imply inefficient allocation.
Because they will expire and cant be put in a bank.
I need a bright economist to help me.
If everyone gets helicopter money and I put mine in the bank, then the purpose is still fulfilled. Unless the bank sticks it in sock under the bed they put my helicopter money out to be used by someone else who at this moment needs it to spend more than I do, so it still gets spent in the real economy, which was the purpose of the helicopter money in the first place.
It's no answer to say it gets tied up in useless unproductive assets like houses if I put it in the bank. The helicopter money I use on goods and services will also in large part go to pay off mortgages etc....
So why are vouchers better than cash?
Because the money you put in (i.e. lend to) the bank doesn't get lent or paid out to someone else.
I think the likelihood is vouchers limited to specific sectors, especially restaurants etc, with a time-limit on spending them. (Probably not grocery shopping, sorry @Beibheirli_C).
It's also a highly visible feel-good idea. Tax cuts are a bit dry, and no one really feels they've been given anything. Five hundred quid to spend, even if it's targeted at specific areas of retail is something solid that you've been "given", even if we all have to pay for it further down the road.
Clear Johnson victory this week - only the second time I've said that since Starmer took over.
Starmer needs to do better at thinking on his feet when the answers are given rather than continuing with his prescripted questions.
I called it as 0-0 right up until the last question. However, "Why won't you keep free parking for NHS staff" asks Starmer. "Its our manifesto pledge to make it free for the patients as well". At which point Starmer sits there still with a mask on his face internally saying "fuuuuck". 1-0 to Shagger.
Johnson is poor. No detail. gets angry. Waffles. But it can be effective against someone who doesn't deviate from a line of questioning regardless of what the response is.
Damning of Starmer that he can't think on his feet.
I have never understood the love in for Starmer. he is very ordinary. Never has the LOTO had so much ammo and he wastes it.
Is this a call for Johnson to go? It sounds like it.
I hope he will decide to spend more time with Carrie and his youngster post brexit on the 1st January 2021. Anytime after that is fine by me
That's a very unusual and humane spin. Your concern is not so much he is unsuited to be PM but rather that he does not pass up what is probably his last opportunity to create a happy and stable domestic life for himself. He really should, as the old cliche goes, "spend more time with the family".
That's also a nice comment from yourself. It would have been easy to make a sarcastic joke based on Mr Johnson's previous failures in that regard.
F1: oh, and seen already I imagine, but it's not Hulk returning to Renault. It's Alonso.
Yeah, that one makes no sense at all. Alonso is a professional pain in the arse, and not as quick as he used to be either. He'd be much better off heading to Indycar or Le Mans series.
Utterly stupid. The might of Alonso in a shit car doesn't suddenly make it a good car. He will have to endure Ricciardo tearing past him in the customer McClaren whilst his factory Renault trundles round until breaking down
Sunak has done well so far in the job, he's come across as suited to the role and spoken eloquently about the difficulties we face.
The problem is that all his department has done so far his spend money, to the point where we are looking at an annual deficit to make 2009 cry. At some point, he's going to have to cut spending and raise taxes, or find a way to introduce a big dose of inflation into the economy, that's when life gets more difficult for him.
That said, he deserves our best wishes, there's no easy way out from where we are now.
Quantitative Easing.
The Bank has printed £300bn this year which means in reality how much is our deficit this year? Also prevents deflation and adds a bit of much needed inflation into the country.
What's going to matter more is future years. The deficit will have to close again, not this year but before too long.
Fundamentally we're going to have to keep tipping cash into circulation to keep large parts of the economy open. Will be a long term problem to manage that is less bad than the immediate short term contraction of money stopping circulating. If we get the suggested £1,500 in Sunak tokens (2 adults 2 kids) then I'll go and spend £1,500 in tokens in the bits of the economy they are intended for. If we don't then it'll be a few hundred maybe. Spend the cash to keep jobs that will go otherwise in a strategically important industry? Where cash to preserve the jobs is less than the hit of not doing so? Its the 1970s redux.
Do you think that "strategically important industries" are defined as those that made valuable contributions to the Tory Party coffers?
PMQs today SKS - Why are you blaiming Care Workers it's your fault BJ - Careworkers have been brilliant I take full responsibility SKS - Why are you blaming Careworkers and not taking full responsibility BJ - I just did I will say again I pay tribute to Careworkers I was not blaming them The Govt takes full responsibility SKS That's not good enough this Careworker says she is upset that the PM is blaming Careworkers. BJ Are you fooking deaf or what. SKS repeat 3rd question BJ says learn to think on your feet you stupid person. SKS NHS parking blah blah bore on BJ Its free and unlike Lab we will make it free for some patients too.
BJ 5-0 SKS BJ 5 fookin 0
Starmer lucky to get nil
If only we had Corbyn as LOTO still instead. Imagine the triumph he would have had pinning Johnson down on the only important issue of the day - Palestine.
F1: oh, and seen already I imagine, but it's not Hulk returning to Renault. It's Alonso.
Yeah, that one makes no sense at all. Alonso is a professional pain in the arse, and not as quick as he used to be either. He'd be much better off heading to Indycar or Le Mans series.
It doesn't make sense from any perspective except as a payday for Alonso. Renault aren't going to win a WDC and he's not going to bring enough of a gain to even get them onto the podium. It's a shame McLaren weren't performing at their current level when he was there as he may have been able to eek out a few race victories from this package.
Clear Johnson victory this week - only the second time I've said that since Starmer took over.
Starmer needs to do better at thinking on his feet when the answers are given rather than continuing with his prescripted questions.
I called it as 0-0 right up until the last question. However, "Why won't you keep free parking for NHS staff" asks Starmer. "Its our manifesto pledge to make it free for the patients as well". At which point Starmer sits there still with a mask on his face internally saying "fuuuuck". 1-0 to Shagger.
Johnson is poor. No detail. gets angry. Waffles. But it can be effective against someone who doesn't deviate from a line of questioning regardless of what the response is.
Damning of Starmer that he can't think on his feet.
I have never understood the love in for Starmer. he is very ordinary. Never has the LOTO had so much ammo and he wastes it.
He doesnt seem particularly likeable but neither is he dislikeable. Id see his job as making Labour a serious party again, and being there in case the govt becomes extremely unpopular by the next election - I think he can deliver on both of those, but wouldnt expect him to make Labour popular enough to beat a govt that has performed averagely or better.
Clear Johnson victory this week - only the second time I've said that since Starmer took over.
Starmer needs to do better at thinking on his feet when the answers are given rather than continuing with his prescripted questions.
I called it as 0-0 right up until the last question. However, "Why won't you keep free parking for NHS staff" asks Starmer. "Its our manifesto pledge to make it free for the patients as well". At which point Starmer sits there still with a mask on his face internally saying "fuuuuck". 1-0 to Shagger.
Johnson is poor. No detail. gets angry. Waffles. But it can be effective against someone who doesn't deviate from a line of questioning regardless of what the response is.
Damning of Starmer that he can't think on his feet.
I have never understood the love in for Starmer. he is very ordinary. Never has the LOTO had so much ammo and he wastes it.
He doesnt seem particularly likeable but neither is he dislikeable. Id see his job as making Labour a serious party again, and being there in case the govt becomes extremely unpopular by the next election - I think he can deliver on both of those, but wouldnt expect him to make Labour popular enough to beat a govt that has performed averagely or better.
I think that too. His biggest challenge is the revival of Labour in Scotland - let's see how he does there.
Transferable vouchers? If so then why not cash? If non-transferable then they must be person-specific and that may require proof of identity and imply inefficient allocation.
Because they will expire and cant be put in a bank.
I need a bright economist to help me.
If everyone gets helicopter money and I put mine in the bank, then the purpose is still fulfilled. Unless the bank sticks it in sock under the bed they put my helicopter money out to be used by someone else who at this moment needs it to spend more than I do, so it still gets spent in the real economy, which was the purpose of the helicopter money in the first place.
It's no answer to say it gets tied up in useless unproductive assets like houses if I put it in the bank. The helicopter money I use on goods and services will also in large part go to pay off mortgages etc....
So why are vouchers better than cash?
You can't export vouchers
You can't spend them on drugs or other illegal activities
They can have an expiry date, to encourage shopping over the summer
Not letting you simply bank it encourages the sort of spending they want to see, in consumption rather than debt repayment.
You are right about inefficiencies in allocation, against which is a desire to avoid a black market developing in the vouchers (which generally involves poorer people selling them on for a cash value much less than the face value).
(Cynical answer) loads of vouchers will be issued but never redeemed, which allows the government to announce one number but actually spend a smaller number.
(Political answer) It's visible in a way that a tax cut isn't. "The government gave me free stuff, thank you very much Mr Johnson and Mr Sunak!".
No I think it was probably a Johnson victory on balance. But Johnson isn’t at all “good” like Tories here would have you believe.
He’s a poor Commons performer and a poor orator. End of story.
Starmer can be good, Johnson never has been. Johnson has only ever won when Starmer had an off day and was perceived as the least bad, Johnson never delivered a killer blow.
Even in "white collar" type industries why should business pay £lots for offices they don't need? I did a video call with someone yesterday from a well established full service marketing agency - they shuttered their office and with the lease up have decided they no longer need it
I think that's a good point.
How many empty offices will there be? And will these be a significant source of new housing?
Permitted development conversions of office / commercial have done 11k new units a year since 2015. There have been a couple of scandals, but high quality conversions are very possible as shown by all those warehouses.
Transferable vouchers? If so then why not cash? If non-transferable then they must be person-specific and that may require proof of identity and imply inefficient allocation.
Because they will expire and cant be put in a bank.
I need a bright economist to help me.
If everyone gets helicopter money and I put mine in the bank, then the purpose is still fulfilled. Unless the bank sticks it in sock under the bed they put my helicopter money out to be used by someone else who at this moment needs it to spend more than I do, so it still gets spent in the real economy, which was the purpose of the helicopter money in the first place.
It's no answer to say it gets tied up in useless unproductive assets like houses if I put it in the bank. The helicopter money I use on goods and services will also in large part go to pay off mortgages etc....
So why are vouchers better than cash?
Having blood in your body isn't sufficient, to be healthy you need it circulating.
Cash circulation is the lifeblood of the economy. You spend it in a shop, the shop pays their staff and pays their suppliers, the staff spend their wages, the suppliers pay their staff and their suppliers and so on - it is all multiplied. Every pound spent may be then re-spent 12x elsewhere whereas cash in the bank just sits there doing nothing.
Vouchers allow circulation. That's the difference.
Hang on. Buy a product / service. That creates jobs. People then have cash to buy a product / service. Sounds neat, it needs a name though. How about Capitalism?
Problem is that Capitalism has been largely usurped by bankism. And in Bankism you want the cash to circulate into your own account and not other people's. This government could have done as you said and not slashed things to the bone whilst diverting cash into bankster pockets. But didn't. Thats how we ended up both with record sums spent on the NHS and record cuts to the actual front line.
Starmer Q1: You're blaming care workers Johnson A1: I take responsibility myself, I pay tribute to care workers Starmer Q2: You're blaming care workers Johnson A2: I pay tribute to care workers and we are investing in care homes Starmer Q3: You're blaming care workers, what do you say to them? Johnson A3: I pay tribute to care workers and we are investing in care homes
Except he's not taking responsibility himself. He's blaming care workers.
PMQs today SKS - Why are you blaiming Care Workers it's your fault BJ - Careworkers have been brilliant I take full responsibility SKS - Why are you blaming Careworkers and not taking full responsibility BJ - I just did I will say again I pay tribute to Careworkers I was not blaming them The Govt takes full responsibility SKS That's not good enough this Careworker says she is upset that the PM is blaming Careworkers. BJ Are you fooking deaf or what. SKS repeat 3rd question BJ says learn to think on your feet you stupid person. SKS NHS parking blah blah bore on BJ Its free and unlike Lab we will make it free for some patients too.
BJ 5-0 SKS BJ 5 fookin 0
Starmer lucky to get nil
If only we had Corbyn as LOTO still instead. Imagine the triumph he would have had pinning Johnson down on the only important issue of the day - Palestine.
He was completely shite and unable to think on his feet.
You think that was a triumph?
No. I think it was poor.
But PB Tories saying that means absolutely sod all.
Most PB Tories are willing to give Starmer credit when he does well. Maybe not some (never seen BluestBlue say it) but personally this is only the second time I've called it for Johnson since Johnson v Starmer began. I think the same may be true of Big_G for instance.
PMQs today SKS - Why are you blaiming Care Workers it's your fault BJ - Careworkers have been brilliant I take full responsibility SKS - Why are you blaming Careworkers and not taking full responsibility BJ - I just did I will say again I pay tribute to Careworkers I was not blaming them The Govt takes full responsibility SKS That's not good enough this Careworker says she is upset that the PM is blaming Careworkers. BJ Are you fooking deaf or what. SKS repeat 3rd question BJ says learn to think on your feet you stupid person. SKS NHS parking blah blah bore on BJ Its free and unlike Lab we will make it free for some patients too.
BJ 5-0 SKS BJ 5 fookin 0
Starmer lucky to get nil
"BJ - Careworkers have been brilliant I take full responsibility "
Did BJ really say that? A massive hostage to fortune like that?
If he did Starmer should have asked him to repeat it and then say "I have no further questions"
PMQs today SKS - Why are you blaiming Care Workers it's your fault BJ - Careworkers have been brilliant I take full responsibility SKS - Why are you blaming Careworkers and not taking full responsibility BJ - I just did I will say again I pay tribute to Careworkers I was not blaming them The Govt takes full responsibility SKS That's not good enough this Careworker says she is upset that the PM is blaming Careworkers. BJ Are you fooking deaf or what. SKS repeat 3rd question BJ says learn to think on your feet you stupid person. SKS NHS parking blah blah bore on BJ Its free and unlike Lab we will make it free for some patients too.
BJ 5-0 SKS BJ 5 fookin 0
Starmer lucky to get nil
If only we had Corbyn as LOTO still instead. Imagine the triumph he would have had pinning Johnson down on the only important issue of the day - Palestine.
Clear Johnson victory this week - only the second time I've said that since Starmer took over.
Starmer needs to do better at thinking on his feet when the answers are given rather than continuing with his prescripted questions.
I called it as 0-0 right up until the last question. However, "Why won't you keep free parking for NHS staff" asks Starmer. "Its our manifesto pledge to make it free for the patients as well". At which point Starmer sits there still with a mask on his face internally saying "fuuuuck". 1-0 to Shagger.
Johnson is poor. No detail. gets angry. Waffles. But it can be effective against someone who doesn't deviate from a line of questioning regardless of what the response is.
Damning of Starmer that he can't think on his feet.
I have never understood the love in for Starmer. he is very ordinary. Never has the LOTO had so much ammo and he wastes it.
He doesnt seem particularly likeable but neither is he dislikeable. Id see his job as making Labour a serious party again, and being there in case the govt becomes extremely unpopular by the next election - I think he can deliver on both of those, but wouldnt expect him to make Labour popular enough to beat a govt that has performed averagely or better.
The problem is we live in a personality culture and he does not have one. Like him or loathe him it can't be argued that Johnson does not have a personality.
Trump is a ridiculous politician but he became POTUS because he was different.
Starmer would have been fine before the internet age, he is just too boring and can't think quickly
PMQs today SKS - Why are you blaiming Care Workers it's your fault BJ - Careworkers have been brilliant I take full responsibility SKS - Why are you blaming Careworkers and not taking full responsibility BJ - I just did I will say again I pay tribute to Careworkers I was not blaming them The Govt takes full responsibility SKS That's not good enough this Careworker says she is upset that the PM is blaming Careworkers. BJ Are you fooking deaf or what. SKS repeat 3rd question BJ says learn to think on your feet you stupid person. SKS NHS parking blah blah bore on BJ Its free and unlike Lab we will make it free for some patients too.
BJ 5-0 SKS BJ 5 fookin 0
Starmer lucky to get nil
"BJ - Careworkers have been brilliant I take full responsibility "
Did BJ really say that? A massive hostage to fortune like that?
If he did Starmer should have asked him to repeat it and then say "I have no further questions"
PMQs today SKS - Why are you blaiming Care Workers it's your fault BJ - Careworkers have been brilliant I take full responsibility SKS - Why are you blaming Careworkers and not taking full responsibility BJ - I just did I will say again I pay tribute to Careworkers I was not blaming them The Govt takes full responsibility SKS That's not good enough this Careworker says she is upset that the PM is blaming Careworkers. BJ Are you fooking deaf or what. SKS repeat 3rd question BJ says learn to think on your feet you stupid person. SKS NHS parking blah blah bore on BJ Its free and unlike Lab we will make it free for some patients too.
BJ 5-0 SKS BJ 5 fookin 0
Starmer lucky to get nil
If only we had Corbyn as LOTO still instead. Imagine the triumph he would have had pinning Johnson down on the only important issue of the day - Palestine.
Which party you in this week?
Rearward Momentum
I guess after rejections from all the serious Parties you have found your level
Starmer Q1: You're blaming care workers Johnson A1: I take responsibility myself, I pay tribute to care workers Starmer Q2: You're blaming care workers Johnson A2: I pay tribute to care workers and we are investing in care homes Starmer Q3: You're blaming care workers, what do you say to them? Johnson A3: I pay tribute to care workers and we are investing in care homes
Except he's not taking responsibility himself. He's blaming care workers.
Except he's not, he literally said "I take fully responsibility".
Clear Johnson victory this week - only the second time I've said that since Starmer took over.
Starmer needs to do better at thinking on his feet when the answers are given rather than continuing with his prescripted questions.
I called it as 0-0 right up until the last question. However, "Why won't you keep free parking for NHS staff" asks Starmer. "Its our manifesto pledge to make it free for the patients as well". At which point Starmer sits there still with a mask on his face internally saying "fuuuuck". 1-0 to Shagger.
Johnson is poor. No detail. gets angry. Waffles. But it can be effective against someone who doesn't deviate from a line of questioning regardless of what the response is.
Damning of Starmer that he can't think on his feet.
I have never understood the love in for Starmer. he is very ordinary. Never has the LOTO had so much ammo and he wastes it.
He doesnt seem particularly likeable but neither is he dislikeable. Id see his job as making Labour a serious party again, and being there in case the govt becomes extremely unpopular by the next election - I think he can deliver on both of those, but wouldnt expect him to make Labour popular enough to beat a govt that has performed averagely or better.
The problem is we live in a personality culture and he does not have one. Like him or loathe him it can't be argued that Johnson does not have a personality.
Trump is a ridiculous politician but he became POTUS because he was different.
Starmer would have been fine before the internet age, he is just too boring and can't think quickly
I agree and someone like Phillips would have been interesting, if potentially volatile. But maybe Labour just needed a steady eddie after their disaster with Corbyn.
The £1k furlough bonus is politically clever. A sizable amount of cash to offer, and if companies fold before they take it it deflects the blame onto them.
The £1k furlough bonus is politically clever. A sizable amount of cash to offer, and if companies fold before they take it it deflects the blame onto them.
Agreed, very clever.
Plus the employers need to be trading through the Festive period and into the new year to claim it. Ones that are able to do that are likely able to continue afterwards.
Comments
Truly shocking incompetence.
Starmer needs to do better at thinking on his feet when the answers are given rather than continuing with his prescripted questions.
Johnson is poor. No detail. gets angry. Waffles. But it can be effective against someone who doesn't deviate from a line of questioning regardless of what the response is.
Johnson is getting better at this.
If everyone gets helicopter money and I put mine in the bank, then the purpose is still fulfilled. Unless the bank sticks it in sock under the bed they put my helicopter money out to be used by someone else who at this moment needs it to spend more than I do, so it still gets spent in the real economy, which was the purpose of the helicopter money in the first place.
It's no answer to say it gets tied up in useless unproductive assets like houses if I put it in the bank. The helicopter money I use on goods and services will also in large part go to pay off mortgages etc....
So why are vouchers better than cash?
Yes Cameron could have done what Johnson now wants to do but he didn't. Condemn Cameron for it if you want. Similarly condemn May if you want - I happily do any chance I get.
We are about 11 months into Johnson's premiership and about 8 months into Johnson having a majority government.
The transgenderist campaigners force the world to call individuals by names no one has ever heard of, and suddenly nobody knows who they are.
hmmm.
I am not going to go out and buy stuff I do not need just because somebody gave me a voucher
I think the likelihood is vouchers limited to specific sectors, especially restaurants etc, with a time-limit on spending them. (Probably not grocery shopping, sorry @Beibheirli_C).
https://twitter.com/BethRigby/status/1280825501251141634
The Great Voucher Giveaway that we are hearing about. I presume it will require some sort of I.T. system to run it?
Govt & IT - not a good mix. When we can expect this economy booster to be ready?
Cash circulation is the lifeblood of the economy. You spend it in a shop, the shop pays their staff and pays their suppliers, the staff spend their wages, the suppliers pay their staff and their suppliers and so on - it is all multiplied. Every pound spent may be then re-spent 12x elsewhere whereas cash in the bank just sits there doing nothing.
Vouchers allow circulation. That's the difference.
SKS - Why are you blaiming Care Workers it's your fault
BJ - Careworkers have been brilliant I take full responsibility
SKS - Why are you blaming Careworkers and not taking full responsibility
BJ - I just did I will say again I pay tribute to Careworkers I was not blaming them The Govt takes full responsibility
SKS That's not good enough this Careworker says she is upset that the PM is blaming Careworkers.
BJ Are you fooking deaf or what.
SKS repeat 3rd question
BJ says learn to think on your feet you stupid person.
SKS NHS parking blah blah bore on
BJ Its free and unlike Lab we will make it free for some patients too.
BJ 5-0 SKS
BJ 5 fookin 0
Starmer lucky to get nil
However, perhaps he knows something that we don't - such as having some support 'in the bag' from somewhere.
Hulkenberg's not as high profile (and probably not as fast) but can be a team player and would want to progress his career beyond a couple of seasons.
He was completely shite and unable to think on his feet.
You think that was a triumph?
But PB Tories saying that means absolutely sod all.
You can't spend them on drugs or other illegal activities
They can have an expiry date, to encourage shopping over the summer
Not letting you simply bank it encourages the sort of spending they want to see, in consumption rather than debt repayment.
You are right about inefficiencies in allocation, against which is a desire to avoid a black market developing in the vouchers (which generally involves poorer people selling them on for a cash value much less than the face value).
(Cynical answer) loads of vouchers will be issued but never redeemed, which allows the government to announce one number but actually spend a smaller number.
(Political answer) It's visible in a way that a tax cut isn't. "The government gave me free stuff, thank you very much Mr Johnson and Mr Sunak!".
He’s a poor Commons performer and a poor orator. End of story.
Starmer can be good, Johnson never has been. Johnson has only ever won when Starmer had an off day and was perceived as the least bad, Johnson never delivered a killer blow.
How many empty offices will there be? And will these be a significant source of new housing?
Permitted development conversions of office / commercial have done 11k new units a year since 2015. There have been a couple of scandals, but high quality conversions are very possible as shown by all those warehouses.
Is this the source of the next wave?
Problem is that Capitalism has been largely usurped by bankism. And in Bankism you want the cash to circulate into your own account and not other people's. This government could have done as you said and not slashed things to the bone whilst diverting cash into bankster pockets. But didn't. Thats how we ended up both with record sums spent on the NHS and record cuts to the actual front line.
Did BJ really say that? A massive hostage to fortune like that?
If he did Starmer should have asked him to repeat it and then say "I have no further questions"
Interesting. Very interesting.
https://twitter.com/PARLYapp/status/1280827707480309761?s=20
Trump is a ridiculous politician but he became POTUS because he was different.
Starmer would have been fine before the internet age, he is just too boring and can't think quickly
https://twitter.com/guardian/status/1280822437391761410?s=20
Drakeford canned a motorway by pass. Boris was implying he might override Drakeford I guess.
Plus the employers need to be trading through the Festive period and into the new year to claim it. Ones that are able to do that are likely able to continue afterwards.
He's about to get cancelled.