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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » A big day for Sunak – now as big a threat to Starmer as he is

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  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,102
    I really expected Boris to be really held to account by Starmer today over care homes but very poor from Starmer
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,837

    Interesting exchange.
    Shagger says "we'll reform the system, nothing done for 30 years will you support"
    Starmer says "of course, you've been in government for 10 years why haven't you done it already?"

    The prescient point being that there is a pretense that the Tories haven't been in office for a decade and instead only for a few months.

    Bluekip have only been in power for a short time. Before that it was the Conservative party.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,902

    Dire PMQs for SKS

    2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th questions already answered in question 1

    Starmer wooden, thats absolutely true. Can't give credit to the PM though as he answers every question with angry waffle. Its 0-0 again as it was last week and the week before.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676
    SKS misses biggest open goals for months.

    Truly shocking incompetence.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,720
    "Stay at home, protect the NHS, save lives". Isn't that where the care home tragedy started?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Clear Johnson victory this week - only the second time I've said that since Starmer took over.

    Starmer needs to do better at thinking on his feet when the answers are given rather than continuing with his prescripted questions.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Interesting exchange.
    Shagger says "we'll reform the system, nothing done for 30 years will you support"
    Starmer says "of course, you've been in government for 10 years why haven't you done it already?"

    The prescient point being that there is a pretense that the Tories haven't been in office for a decade and instead only for a few months.

    Its not a pretence, this is a new government. Just because the party stays the same doesn't mean the government does.
  • humbuggerhumbugger Posts: 377
    Dreadful performance from Starmer, seems totally unable to think on his feet.
  • MimusMimus Posts: 56
    Tiki-taka by the corner flag from SKS today.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676
    humbugger said:

    Dreadful performance from Starmer, seems totally unable to think on his feet.

    On par with Corbyns worst PMQ performance.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,902

    Clear Johnson victory this week - only the second time I've said that since Starmer took over.

    Starmer needs to do better at thinking on his feet when the answers are given rather than continuing with his prescripted questions.

    I called it as 0-0 right up until the last question. However, "Why won't you keep free parking for NHS staff" asks Starmer. "Its our manifesto pledge to make it free for the patients as well". At which point Starmer sits there still with a mask on his face internally saying "fuuuuck". 1-0 to Shagger.

    Johnson is poor. No detail. gets angry. Waffles. But it can be effective against someone who doesn't deviate from a line of questioning regardless of what the response is.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176

    Starmer going on Care Homes - direct quote and asks for apology. Johnson going on asymptomatic defence - not sure how robust that is......

    Having seen the clips from Hancock in March talking about asymptomatic transmission it'll backfire badly again.
    I was surprised that Starmer didn't have those quotes lined up.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676
    As a Labour supporter that was a depressing performance from SKS.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,902

    Interesting exchange.
    Shagger says "we'll reform the system, nothing done for 30 years will you support"
    Starmer says "of course, you've been in government for 10 years why haven't you done it already?"

    The prescient point being that there is a pretense that the Tories haven't been in office for a decade and instead only for a few months.

    Its not a pretence, this is a new government. Just because the party stays the same doesn't mean the government does.
    That you actually believe that is baffling. OK so 5 years were in coalition. But since 2015 there has been continuous majority Tory government. And at any time in those 10 years in office they could have done the things he appeared to be trying to blame Labour for not doing.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Clear Johnson victory this week - only the second time I've said that since Starmer took over.

    Starmer needs to do better at thinking on his feet when the answers are given rather than continuing with his prescripted questions.

    I called it as 0-0 right up until the last question. However, "Why won't you keep free parking for NHS staff" asks Starmer. "Its our manifesto pledge to make it free for the patients as well". At which point Starmer sits there still with a mask on his face internally saying "fuuuuck". 1-0 to Shagger.

    Johnson is poor. No detail. gets angry. Waffles. But it can be effective against someone who doesn't deviate from a line of questioning regardless of what the response is.
    That was a brilliant response to a bear trap.

    Johnson is getting better at this.
  • humbuggerhumbugger Posts: 377

    humbugger said:

    Dreadful performance from Starmer, seems totally unable to think on his feet.

    On par with Corbyns worst PMQ performance.
    Indeed, but no doubt OGH will be along any minute to applaud Starmer's masterful performance.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,902
    tlg86 said:

    Starmer going on Care Homes - direct quote and asks for apology. Johnson going on asymptomatic defence - not sure how robust that is......

    Having seen the clips from Hancock in March talking about asymptomatic transmission it'll backfire badly again.
    I was surprised that Starmer didn't have those quotes lined up.
    Perhaps his team are new and aren't good enough?
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,555

    geoffw said:

    Transferable vouchers? If so then why not cash? If non-transferable then they must be person-specific and that may require proof of identity and imply inefficient allocation.

    Because they will expire and cant be put in a bank.
    I need a bright economist to help me.

    If everyone gets helicopter money and I put mine in the bank, then the purpose is still fulfilled. Unless the bank sticks it in sock under the bed they put my helicopter money out to be used by someone else who at this moment needs it to spend more than I do, so it still gets spent in the real economy, which was the purpose of the helicopter money in the first place.

    It's no answer to say it gets tied up in useless unproductive assets like houses if I put it in the bank. The helicopter money I use on goods and services will also in large part go to pay off mortgages etc....

    So why are vouchers better than cash?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Interesting exchange.
    Shagger says "we'll reform the system, nothing done for 30 years will you support"
    Starmer says "of course, you've been in government for 10 years why haven't you done it already?"

    The prescient point being that there is a pretense that the Tories haven't been in office for a decade and instead only for a few months.

    Its not a pretence, this is a new government. Just because the party stays the same doesn't mean the government does.
    That you actually believe that is baffling. OK so 5 years were in coalition. But since 2015 there has been continuous majority Tory government. And at any time in those 10 years in office they could have done the things he appeared to be trying to blame Labour for not doing.
    The people have changed. The PM has changed.

    Yes Cameron could have done what Johnson now wants to do but he didn't. Condemn Cameron for it if you want. Similarly condemn May if you want - I happily do any chance I get.

    We are about 11 months into Johnson's premiership and about 8 months into Johnson having a majority government.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,608

    Clear Johnson victory this week - only the second time I've said that since Starmer took over.

    Starmer needs to do better at thinking on his feet when the answers are given rather than continuing with his prescripted questions.

    I called it as 0-0 right up until the last question. However, "Why won't you keep free parking for NHS staff" asks Starmer. "Its our manifesto pledge to make it free for the patients as well". At which point Starmer sits there still with a mask on his face internally saying "fuuuuck". 1-0 to Shagger.

    Johnson is poor. No detail. gets angry. Waffles. But it can be effective against someone who doesn't deviate from a line of questioning regardless of what the response is.
    Damning of Starmer that he can't think on his feet.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,102

    Clear Johnson victory this week - only the second time I've said that since Starmer took over.

    Starmer needs to do better at thinking on his feet when the answers are given rather than continuing with his prescripted questions.

    I called it as 0-0 right up until the last question. However, "Why won't you keep free parking for NHS staff" asks Starmer. "Its our manifesto pledge to make it free for the patients as well". At which point Starmer sits there still with a mask on his face internally saying "fuuuuck". 1-0 to Shagger.

    Johnson is poor. No detail. gets angry. Waffles. But it can be effective against someone who doesn't deviate from a line of questioning regardless of what the response is.
    That was a brilliant response to a bear trap.

    Johnson is getting better at this.
    He does seem to have upped his game
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,249
    edited July 2020

    MattW said:

    Who is Jennifer Boylan and why is she relevant?
    Trans Woman (originally James) Professor at all female Barnard College, part of Columbia Uni, NY.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jennifer_Finney_Boylan

    The relevance is that "free speech" is important only if its the proper people are saying it.....
    That's an interesting point.

    The transgenderist campaigners force the world to call individuals by names no one has ever heard of, and suddenly nobody knows who they are.

    hmmm.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,464

    Sandpit said:

    Sunak has done well so far in the job, he's come across as suited to the role and spoken eloquently about the difficulties we face.

    The problem is that all his department has done so far his spend money, to the point where we are looking at an annual deficit to make 2009 cry. At some point, he's going to have to cut spending and raise taxes, or find a way to introduce a big dose of inflation into the economy, that's when life gets more difficult for him.

    That said, he deserves our best wishes, there's no easy way out from where we are now.

    Quantitative Easing.

    The Bank has printed £300bn this year which means in reality how much is our deficit this year? Also prevents deflation and adds a bit of much needed inflation into the country.

    What's going to matter more is future years. The deficit will have to close again, not this year but before too long.
    Fundamentally we're going to have to keep tipping cash into circulation to keep large parts of the economy open. Will be a long term problem to manage that is less bad than the immediate short term contraction of money stopping circulating. If we get the suggested £1,500 in Sunak tokens (2 adults 2 kids) then I'll go and spend £1,500 in tokens in the bits of the economy they are intended for. If we don't then it'll be a few hundred maybe.

    Spend the cash to keep jobs that will go otherwise in a strategically important industry? Where cash to preserve the jobs is less than the hit of not doing so? Its the 1970s redux.
    If he gives us cash we will put it in the bank...
    Why would you do that, at 0%? Even Premium Bonds would be better,
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,608

    Clear Johnson victory this week - only the second time I've said that since Starmer took over.

    Starmer needs to do better at thinking on his feet when the answers are given rather than continuing with his prescripted questions.

    The people prepping those questions should get a massive bollocking. His only silver lining is that nobody will see it because he is in Sunak's mini-Budget rain shadow today.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163
    geoffw said:

    "Stay at home, protect the NHS, save lives". Isn't that where the care home tragedy started?

    Yes.
  • humbuggerhumbugger Posts: 377

    Clear Johnson victory this week - only the second time I've said that since Starmer took over.

    Starmer needs to do better at thinking on his feet when the answers are given rather than continuing with his prescripted questions.

    I called it as 0-0 right up until the last question. However, "Why won't you keep free parking for NHS staff" asks Starmer. "Its our manifesto pledge to make it free for the patients as well". At which point Starmer sits there still with a mask on his face internally saying "fuuuuck". 1-0 to Shagger.

    Johnson is poor. No detail. gets angry. Waffles. But it can be effective against someone who doesn't deviate from a line of questioning regardless of what the response is.
    That was a brilliant response to a bear trap.

    Johnson is getting better at this.
    He does seem to have upped his game
    Just his health steadily improving. He looks much better now and is noticeably more combative.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,720

    Clear Johnson victory this week - only the second time I've said that since Starmer took over.

    Starmer needs to do better at thinking on his feet when the answers are given rather than continuing with his prescripted questions.

    I called it as 0-0 right up until the last question. However, "Why won't you keep free parking for NHS staff" asks Starmer. "Its our manifesto pledge to make it free for the patients as well". At which point Starmer sits there still with a mask on his face internally saying "fuuuuck". 1-0 to Shagger.

    Johnson is poor. No detail. gets angry. Waffles. But it can be effective against someone who doesn't deviate from a line of questioning regardless of what the response is.
    Damning of Starmer that he can't think on his feet.
    No surprise though.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    @MaxPB you might be interested in the tidal barrage question in PMQs by a Tory backbencher.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163

    Sandpit said:

    Sunak has done well so far in the job, he's come across as suited to the role and spoken eloquently about the difficulties we face.

    The problem is that all his department has done so far his spend money, to the point where we are looking at an annual deficit to make 2009 cry. At some point, he's going to have to cut spending and raise taxes, or find a way to introduce a big dose of inflation into the economy, that's when life gets more difficult for him.

    That said, he deserves our best wishes, there's no easy way out from where we are now.

    Quantitative Easing.

    The Bank has printed £300bn this year which means in reality how much is our deficit this year? Also prevents deflation and adds a bit of much needed inflation into the country.

    What's going to matter more is future years. The deficit will have to close again, not this year but before too long.
    Fundamentally we're going to have to keep tipping cash into circulation to keep large parts of the economy open. Will be a long term problem to manage that is less bad than the immediate short term contraction of money stopping circulating. If we get the suggested £1,500 in Sunak tokens (2 adults 2 kids) then I'll go and spend £1,500 in tokens in the bits of the economy they are intended for. If we don't then it'll be a few hundred maybe.

    Spend the cash to keep jobs that will go otherwise in a strategically important industry? Where cash to preserve the jobs is less than the hit of not doing so? Its the 1970s redux.
    If he gives us cash we will put it in the bank...
    I would expect it to be in voucher form with no cash value
    In that case, grocery shopping.

    I am not going to go out and buy stuff I do not need just because somebody gave me a voucher
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited July 2020
    algarkirk said:

    geoffw said:

    Transferable vouchers? If so then why not cash? If non-transferable then they must be person-specific and that may require proof of identity and imply inefficient allocation.

    Because they will expire and cant be put in a bank.
    I need a bright economist to help me.

    If everyone gets helicopter money and I put mine in the bank, then the purpose is still fulfilled. Unless the bank sticks it in sock under the bed they put my helicopter money out to be used by someone else who at this moment needs it to spend more than I do, so it still gets spent in the real economy, which was the purpose of the helicopter money in the first place.

    It's no answer to say it gets tied up in useless unproductive assets like houses if I put it in the bank. The helicopter money I use on goods and services will also in large part go to pay off mortgages etc....

    So why are vouchers better than cash?
    Because the money you put in (i.e. lend to) the bank doesn't get lent or paid out to someone else.

    I think the likelihood is vouchers limited to specific sectors, especially restaurants etc, with a time-limit on spending them. (Probably not grocery shopping, sorry @Beibheirli_C).
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    @RochdalePioneers in 2007 John McDonnell stood in the Labour leadership election. If he'd won and we had Prime Minister McDonnell would you accept that was a different government to Tony Blair's Labour government and would have had different priorities and would have gone to a future election on a different manifesto?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,102
    humbugger said:

    Clear Johnson victory this week - only the second time I've said that since Starmer took over.

    Starmer needs to do better at thinking on his feet when the answers are given rather than continuing with his prescripted questions.

    I called it as 0-0 right up until the last question. However, "Why won't you keep free parking for NHS staff" asks Starmer. "Its our manifesto pledge to make it free for the patients as well". At which point Starmer sits there still with a mask on his face internally saying "fuuuuck". 1-0 to Shagger.

    Johnson is poor. No detail. gets angry. Waffles. But it can be effective against someone who doesn't deviate from a line of questioning regardless of what the response is.
    That was a brilliant response to a bear trap.

    Johnson is getting better at this.
    He does seem to have upped his game
    Just his health steadily improving. He looks much better now and is noticeably more combative.
    The change was very marked today
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Sandpit said:

    Sunak has done well so far in the job, he's come across as suited to the role and spoken eloquently about the difficulties we face.

    The problem is that all his department has done so far his spend money, to the point where we are looking at an annual deficit to make 2009 cry. At some point, he's going to have to cut spending and raise taxes, or find a way to introduce a big dose of inflation into the economy, that's when life gets more difficult for him.

    That said, he deserves our best wishes, there's no easy way out from where we are now.

    Quantitative Easing.

    The Bank has printed £300bn this year which means in reality how much is our deficit this year? Also prevents deflation and adds a bit of much needed inflation into the country.

    What's going to matter more is future years. The deficit will have to close again, not this year but before too long.
    Fundamentally we're going to have to keep tipping cash into circulation to keep large parts of the economy open. Will be a long term problem to manage that is less bad than the immediate short term contraction of money stopping circulating. If we get the suggested £1,500 in Sunak tokens (2 adults 2 kids) then I'll go and spend £1,500 in tokens in the bits of the economy they are intended for. If we don't then it'll be a few hundred maybe.

    Spend the cash to keep jobs that will go otherwise in a strategically important industry? Where cash to preserve the jobs is less than the hit of not doing so? Its the 1970s redux.
    If he gives us cash we will put it in the bank...
    I would expect it to be in voucher form with no cash value
    In that case, grocery shopping.

    I am not going to go out and buy stuff I do not need just because somebody gave me a voucher
    Even if the voucher expires?
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163
    Ok - serious question.

    The Great Voucher Giveaway that we are hearing about. I presume it will require some sort of I.T. system to run it?

    Govt & IT - not a good mix. When we can expect this economy booster to be ready?
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,720

    geoffw said:

    "Stay at home, protect the NHS, save lives". Isn't that where the care home tragedy started?

    Yes.
    OGH's MP making this point but then demanding an apology from the PM in a non-sequitur.

  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868

    Sandpit said:

    Sunak has done well so far in the job, he's come across as suited to the role and spoken eloquently about the difficulties we face.

    The problem is that all his department has done so far his spend money, to the point where we are looking at an annual deficit to make 2009 cry. At some point, he's going to have to cut spending and raise taxes, or find a way to introduce a big dose of inflation into the economy, that's when life gets more difficult for him.

    That said, he deserves our best wishes, there's no easy way out from where we are now.

    Quantitative Easing.

    The Bank has printed £300bn this year which means in reality how much is our deficit this year? Also prevents deflation and adds a bit of much needed inflation into the country.

    What's going to matter more is future years. The deficit will have to close again, not this year but before too long.
    Fundamentally we're going to have to keep tipping cash into circulation to keep large parts of the economy open. Will be a long term problem to manage that is less bad than the immediate short term contraction of money stopping circulating. If we get the suggested £1,500 in Sunak tokens (2 adults 2 kids) then I'll go and spend £1,500 in tokens in the bits of the economy they are intended for. If we don't then it'll be a few hundred maybe.

    Spend the cash to keep jobs that will go otherwise in a strategically important industry? Where cash to preserve the jobs is less than the hit of not doing so? Its the 1970s redux.
    If he gives us cash we will put it in the bank...
    I would expect it to be in voucher form with no cash value
    In that case, grocery shopping.

    I am not going to go out and buy stuff I do not need just because somebody gave me a voucher
    I doubt it will work in a supermarket. There will definitely be an aftermarket for the vouchers, you could probably sell it to someone else quite easily unless it needs to be presented with a photo ID.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,599

    F1: oh, and seen already I imagine, but it's not Hulk returning to Renault. It's Alonso.

    Yeah, that one makes no sense at all. Alonso is a professional pain in the arse, and not as quick as he used to be either. He'd be much better off heading to Indycar or Le Mans series.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868

    @MaxPB you might be interested in the tidal barrage question in PMQs by a Tory backbencher.

    What was it? I don't want PMQs ask find it a waste of time.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,837
    algarkirk said:

    geoffw said:

    Transferable vouchers? If so then why not cash? If non-transferable then they must be person-specific and that may require proof of identity and imply inefficient allocation.

    Because they will expire and cant be put in a bank.
    I need a bright economist to help me.

    If everyone gets helicopter money and I put mine in the bank, then the purpose is still fulfilled. Unless the bank sticks it in sock under the bed they put my helicopter money out to be used by someone else who at this moment needs it to spend more than I do, so it still gets spent in the real economy, which was the purpose of the helicopter money in the first place.

    It's no answer to say it gets tied up in useless unproductive assets like houses if I put it in the bank. The helicopter money I use on goods and services will also in large part go to pay off mortgages etc....

    So why are vouchers better than cash?
    Bank lending doesnt work the way people think, they are not really lending customer deposits out to other customers. So if lots of people deposit money in the bank, they wont up customer lending by the same amount.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    algarkirk said:

    geoffw said:

    Transferable vouchers? If so then why not cash? If non-transferable then they must be person-specific and that may require proof of identity and imply inefficient allocation.

    Because they will expire and cant be put in a bank.
    I need a bright economist to help me.

    If everyone gets helicopter money and I put mine in the bank, then the purpose is still fulfilled. Unless the bank sticks it in sock under the bed they put my helicopter money out to be used by someone else who at this moment needs it to spend more than I do, so it still gets spent in the real economy, which was the purpose of the helicopter money in the first place.

    It's no answer to say it gets tied up in useless unproductive assets like houses if I put it in the bank. The helicopter money I use on goods and services will also in large part go to pay off mortgages etc....

    So why are vouchers better than cash?
    Having blood in your body isn't sufficient, to be healthy you need it circulating.

    Cash circulation is the lifeblood of the economy. You spend it in a shop, the shop pays their staff and pays their suppliers, the staff spend their wages, the suppliers pay their staff and their suppliers and so on - it is all multiplied. Every pound spent may be then re-spent 12x elsewhere whereas cash in the bank just sits there doing nothing.

    Vouchers allow circulation. That's the difference.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676
    edited July 2020
    PMQs today
    SKS - Why are you blaiming Care Workers it's your fault
    BJ - Careworkers have been brilliant I take full responsibility
    SKS - Why are you blaming Careworkers and not taking full responsibility
    BJ - I just did I will say again I pay tribute to Careworkers I was not blaming them The Govt takes full responsibility
    SKS That's not good enough this Careworker says she is upset that the PM is blaming Careworkers.
    BJ Are you fooking deaf or what.
    SKS repeat 3rd question
    BJ says learn to think on your feet you stupid person.
    SKS NHS parking blah blah bore on
    BJ Its free and unlike Lab we will make it free for some patients too.

    BJ 5-0 SKS
    BJ 5 fookin 0

    Starmer lucky to get nil
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,102
    70 members of staff at Hillingdon hospital in Uxbridge are self isolating and it has closed for emergency admissions due to covid outbreak
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,482
    Upon reading that, were I in Boris' shoes, I'd have backed a British candidate for one of the less senior roles than DG. For DG, I'd have thrown my support behind a candidate from a third country like India or Japan, which would have been a useful friendship to cultivate.

    However, perhaps he knows something that we don't - such as having some support 'in the bag' from somewhere.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,908

    Ok - serious question.

    The Great Voucher Giveaway that we are hearing about. I presume it will require some sort of I.T. system to run it?

    Govt & IT - not a good mix. When we can expect this economy booster to be ready?

    The furlough and self-employed schemes have worked just fine. Yes government IT projects do go wrong, but not always and some services are genuinely very good now.
  • algarkirk said:

    geoffw said:

    Transferable vouchers? If so then why not cash? If non-transferable then they must be person-specific and that may require proof of identity and imply inefficient allocation.

    Because they will expire and cant be put in a bank.
    I need a bright economist to help me.

    If everyone gets helicopter money and I put mine in the bank, then the purpose is still fulfilled. Unless the bank sticks it in sock under the bed they put my helicopter money out to be used by someone else who at this moment needs it to spend more than I do, so it still gets spent in the real economy, which was the purpose of the helicopter money in the first place.

    It's no answer to say it gets tied up in useless unproductive assets like houses if I put it in the bank. The helicopter money I use on goods and services will also in large part go to pay off mortgages etc....

    So why are vouchers better than cash?
    Because the money you put in (i.e. lend to) the bank doesn't get lent or paid out to someone else.

    I think the likelihood is vouchers limited to specific sectors, especially restaurants etc, with a time-limit on spending them. (Probably not grocery shopping, sorry @Beibheirli_C).
    It's also a highly visible feel-good idea. Tax cuts are a bit dry, and no one really feels they've been given anything. Five hundred quid to spend, even if it's targeted at specific areas of retail is something solid that you've been "given", even if we all have to pay for it further down the road.
  • NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,375

    Clear Johnson victory this week - only the second time I've said that since Starmer took over.

    Starmer needs to do better at thinking on his feet when the answers are given rather than continuing with his prescripted questions.

    I called it as 0-0 right up until the last question. However, "Why won't you keep free parking for NHS staff" asks Starmer. "Its our manifesto pledge to make it free for the patients as well". At which point Starmer sits there still with a mask on his face internally saying "fuuuuck". 1-0 to Shagger.

    Johnson is poor. No detail. gets angry. Waffles. But it can be effective against someone who doesn't deviate from a line of questioning regardless of what the response is.
    Damning of Starmer that he can't think on his feet.
    I have never understood the love in for Starmer. he is very ordinary. Never has the LOTO had so much ammo and he wastes it.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,599
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    I would vote for him in a heartbeat.

    Hopefully in the member ballot in 2021

    Is this a call for Johnson to go? It sounds like it.
    I hope he will decide to spend more time with Carrie and his youngster post brexit on the 1st January 2021. Anytime after that is fine by me
    That's a very unusual and humane spin. Your concern is not so much he is unsuited to be PM but rather that he does not pass up what is probably his last opportunity to create a happy and stable domestic life for himself. He really should, as the old cliche goes, "spend more time with the family".
    That's also a nice comment from yourself. It would have been easy to make a sarcastic joke based on Mr Johnson's previous failures in that regard.
  • Tories think Starmer did badly. I am shocked!
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,902
    Sandpit said:

    F1: oh, and seen already I imagine, but it's not Hulk returning to Renault. It's Alonso.

    Yeah, that one makes no sense at all. Alonso is a professional pain in the arse, and not as quick as he used to be either. He'd be much better off heading to Indycar or Le Mans series.
    Utterly stupid. The might of Alonso in a shit car doesn't suddenly make it a good car. He will have to endure Ricciardo tearing past him in the customer McClaren whilst his factory Renault trundles round until breaking down
  • ClippPClippP Posts: 1,905

    Sandpit said:

    Sunak has done well so far in the job, he's come across as suited to the role and spoken eloquently about the difficulties we face.

    The problem is that all his department has done so far his spend money, to the point where we are looking at an annual deficit to make 2009 cry. At some point, he's going to have to cut spending and raise taxes, or find a way to introduce a big dose of inflation into the economy, that's when life gets more difficult for him.

    That said, he deserves our best wishes, there's no easy way out from where we are now.

    Quantitative Easing.

    The Bank has printed £300bn this year which means in reality how much is our deficit this year? Also prevents deflation and adds a bit of much needed inflation into the country.

    What's going to matter more is future years. The deficit will have to close again, not this year but before too long.
    Fundamentally we're going to have to keep tipping cash into circulation to keep large parts of the economy open. Will be a long term problem to manage that is less bad than the immediate short term contraction of money stopping circulating. If we get the suggested £1,500 in Sunak tokens (2 adults 2 kids) then I'll go and spend £1,500 in tokens in the bits of the economy they are intended for. If we don't then it'll be a few hundred maybe.
    Spend the cash to keep jobs that will go otherwise in a strategically important industry? Where cash to preserve the jobs is less than the hit of not doing so? Its the 1970s redux.
    Do you think that "strategically important industries" are defined as those that made valuable contributions to the Tory Party coffers?
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,902

    PMQs today
    SKS - Why are you blaiming Care Workers it's your fault
    BJ - Careworkers have been brilliant I take full responsibility
    SKS - Why are you blaming Careworkers and not taking full responsibility
    BJ - I just did I will say again I pay tribute to Careworkers I was not blaming them The Govt takes full responsibility
    SKS That's not good enough this Careworker says she is upset that the PM is blaming Careworkers.
    BJ Are you fooking deaf or what.
    SKS repeat 3rd question
    BJ says learn to think on your feet you stupid person.
    SKS NHS parking blah blah bore on
    BJ Its free and unlike Lab we will make it free for some patients too.

    BJ 5-0 SKS
    BJ 5 fookin 0

    Starmer lucky to get nil

    If only we had Corbyn as LOTO still instead. Imagine the triumph he would have had pinning Johnson down on the only important issue of the day - Palestine.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,805
    Mr. Sandpit, aye, he's fast but a troublemaker.

    Hulkenberg's not as high profile (and probably not as fast) but can be a team player and would want to progress his career beyond a couple of seasons.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,482

    @MaxPB you might be interested in the tidal barrage question in PMQs by a Tory backbencher.

    I'd be interested - and in the answer!
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    Sandpit said:

    F1: oh, and seen already I imagine, but it's not Hulk returning to Renault. It's Alonso.

    Yeah, that one makes no sense at all. Alonso is a professional pain in the arse, and not as quick as he used to be either. He'd be much better off heading to Indycar or Le Mans series.
    It doesn't make sense from any perspective except as a payday for Alonso. Renault aren't going to win a WDC and he's not going to bring enough of a gain to even get them onto the podium. It's a shame McLaren weren't performing at their current level when he was there as he may have been able to eek out a few race victories from this package.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676

    Tories think Starmer did badly. I am shocked!

    He did.

    He was completely shite and unable to think on his feet.

    You think that was a triumph?
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,837

    Clear Johnson victory this week - only the second time I've said that since Starmer took over.

    Starmer needs to do better at thinking on his feet when the answers are given rather than continuing with his prescripted questions.

    I called it as 0-0 right up until the last question. However, "Why won't you keep free parking for NHS staff" asks Starmer. "Its our manifesto pledge to make it free for the patients as well". At which point Starmer sits there still with a mask on his face internally saying "fuuuuck". 1-0 to Shagger.

    Johnson is poor. No detail. gets angry. Waffles. But it can be effective against someone who doesn't deviate from a line of questioning regardless of what the response is.
    Damning of Starmer that he can't think on his feet.
    I have never understood the love in for Starmer. he is very ordinary. Never has the LOTO had so much ammo and he wastes it.
    He doesnt seem particularly likeable but neither is he dislikeable. Id see his job as making Labour a serious party again, and being there in case the govt becomes extremely unpopular by the next election - I think he can deliver on both of those, but wouldnt expect him to make Labour popular enough to beat a govt that has performed averagely or better.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,102

    Tories think Starmer did badly. I am shocked!

    Not just tories
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226
    Starmer bested Johnson at PMQs again then?
  • Tories think Starmer did badly. I am shocked!

    He did.

    He was completely shite and unable to think on his feet.

    You think that was a triumph?
    No. I think it was poor.

    But PB Tories saying that means absolutely sod all.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,482

    Clear Johnson victory this week - only the second time I've said that since Starmer took over.

    Starmer needs to do better at thinking on his feet when the answers are given rather than continuing with his prescripted questions.

    I called it as 0-0 right up until the last question. However, "Why won't you keep free parking for NHS staff" asks Starmer. "Its our manifesto pledge to make it free for the patients as well". At which point Starmer sits there still with a mask on his face internally saying "fuuuuck". 1-0 to Shagger.

    Johnson is poor. No detail. gets angry. Waffles. But it can be effective against someone who doesn't deviate from a line of questioning regardless of what the response is.
    Damning of Starmer that he can't think on his feet.
    I have never understood the love in for Starmer. he is very ordinary. Never has the LOTO had so much ammo and he wastes it.
    He doesnt seem particularly likeable but neither is he dislikeable. Id see his job as making Labour a serious party again, and being there in case the govt becomes extremely unpopular by the next election - I think he can deliver on both of those, but wouldnt expect him to make Labour popular enough to beat a govt that has performed averagely or better.
    I think that too. His biggest challenge is the revival of Labour in Scotland - let's see how he does there.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,599

    70 members of staff at Hillingdon hospital in Uxbridge are self isolating and it has closed for emergency admissions due to covid outbreak

    Johnson's constituency.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Had to go on the road, just got back have I missed anything yet or is he still just doing an introduction?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,599
    edited July 2020
    algarkirk said:

    geoffw said:

    Transferable vouchers? If so then why not cash? If non-transferable then they must be person-specific and that may require proof of identity and imply inefficient allocation.

    Because they will expire and cant be put in a bank.
    I need a bright economist to help me.

    If everyone gets helicopter money and I put mine in the bank, then the purpose is still fulfilled. Unless the bank sticks it in sock under the bed they put my helicopter money out to be used by someone else who at this moment needs it to spend more than I do, so it still gets spent in the real economy, which was the purpose of the helicopter money in the first place.

    It's no answer to say it gets tied up in useless unproductive assets like houses if I put it in the bank. The helicopter money I use on goods and services will also in large part go to pay off mortgages etc....

    So why are vouchers better than cash?
    You can't export vouchers

    You can't spend them on drugs or other illegal activities

    They can have an expiry date, to encourage shopping over the summer

    Not letting you simply bank it encourages the sort of spending they want to see, in consumption rather than debt repayment.

    You are right about inefficiencies in allocation, against which is a desire to avoid a black market developing in the vouchers (which generally involves poorer people selling them on for a cash value much less than the face value).

    (Cynical answer) loads of vouchers will be issued but never redeemed, which allows the government to announce one number but actually spend a smaller number.

    (Political answer) It's visible in a way that a tax cut isn't. "The government gave me free stuff, thank you very much Mr Johnson and Mr Sunak!".
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,102

    Tories think Starmer did badly. I am shocked!

    He did.

    He was completely shite and unable to think on his feet.

    You think that was a triumph?
    No. I think it was poor.

    But PB Tories saying that means absolutely sod all.
    I have complimented Starmer on previous pmq but he was poor and wooden today, especially as he had an open goal on care
  • kinabalu said:

    Starmer bested Johnson at PMQs again then?

    No I think it was probably a Johnson victory on balance. But Johnson isn’t at all “good” like Tories here would have you believe.

    He’s a poor Commons performer and a poor orator. End of story.

    Starmer can be good, Johnson never has been. Johnson has only ever won when Starmer had an off day and was perceived as the least bad, Johnson never delivered a killer blow.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Sunak “No nationalist can deny that we have been able to do this as a United Kingdom” - so some in Downing St are listening....
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,249
    edited July 2020

    Even in "white collar" type industries why should business pay £lots for offices they don't need? I did a video call with someone yesterday from a well established full service marketing agency - they shuttered their office and with the lease up have decided they no longer need it
    I think that's a good point.

    How many empty offices will there be? And will these be a significant source of new housing?

    Permitted development conversions of office / commercial have done 11k new units a year since 2015. There have been a couple of scandals, but high quality conversions are very possible as shown by all those warehouses.

    Is this the source of the next wave?
  • Tories think Starmer did badly. I am shocked!

    He did.

    He was completely shite and unable to think on his feet.

    You think that was a triumph?
    No. I think it was poor.

    But PB Tories saying that means absolutely sod all.
    I have complimented Starmer on previous pmq but he was poor and wooden today, especially as he had an open goal on care
    You’re up Johnson’s backside, don’t try and pretend to be impartial.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,902

    algarkirk said:

    geoffw said:

    Transferable vouchers? If so then why not cash? If non-transferable then they must be person-specific and that may require proof of identity and imply inefficient allocation.

    Because they will expire and cant be put in a bank.
    I need a bright economist to help me.

    If everyone gets helicopter money and I put mine in the bank, then the purpose is still fulfilled. Unless the bank sticks it in sock under the bed they put my helicopter money out to be used by someone else who at this moment needs it to spend more than I do, so it still gets spent in the real economy, which was the purpose of the helicopter money in the first place.

    It's no answer to say it gets tied up in useless unproductive assets like houses if I put it in the bank. The helicopter money I use on goods and services will also in large part go to pay off mortgages etc....

    So why are vouchers better than cash?
    Having blood in your body isn't sufficient, to be healthy you need it circulating.

    Cash circulation is the lifeblood of the economy. You spend it in a shop, the shop pays their staff and pays their suppliers, the staff spend their wages, the suppliers pay their staff and their suppliers and so on - it is all multiplied. Every pound spent may be then re-spent 12x elsewhere whereas cash in the bank just sits there doing nothing.

    Vouchers allow circulation. That's the difference.
    Hang on. Buy a product / service. That creates jobs. People then have cash to buy a product / service. Sounds neat, it needs a name though. How about Capitalism?

    Problem is that Capitalism has been largely usurped by bankism. And in Bankism you want the cash to circulate into your own account and not other people's. This government could have done as you said and not slashed things to the bone whilst diverting cash into bankster pockets. But didn't. Thats how we ended up both with record sums spent on the NHS and record cuts to the actual front line.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226

    Starmer Q1: You're blaming care workers
    Johnson A1: I take responsibility myself, I pay tribute to care workers
    Starmer Q2: You're blaming care workers
    Johnson A2: I pay tribute to care workers and we are investing in care homes
    Starmer Q3: You're blaming care workers, what do you say to them?
    Johnson A3: I pay tribute to care workers and we are investing in care homes

    Except he's not taking responsibility himself. He's blaming care workers.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676

    PMQs today
    SKS - Why are you blaiming Care Workers it's your fault
    BJ - Careworkers have been brilliant I take full responsibility
    SKS - Why are you blaming Careworkers and not taking full responsibility
    BJ - I just did I will say again I pay tribute to Careworkers I was not blaming them The Govt takes full responsibility
    SKS That's not good enough this Careworker says she is upset that the PM is blaming Careworkers.
    BJ Are you fooking deaf or what.
    SKS repeat 3rd question
    BJ says learn to think on your feet you stupid person.
    SKS NHS parking blah blah bore on
    BJ Its free and unlike Lab we will make it free for some patients too.

    BJ 5-0 SKS
    BJ 5 fookin 0

    Starmer lucky to get nil

    If only we had Corbyn as LOTO still instead. Imagine the triumph he would have had pinning Johnson down on the only important issue of the day - Palestine.
    Which party you in this week?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Tories think Starmer did badly. I am shocked!

    He did.

    He was completely shite and unable to think on his feet.

    You think that was a triumph?
    No. I think it was poor.

    But PB Tories saying that means absolutely sod all.
    Most PB Tories are willing to give Starmer credit when he does well. Maybe not some (never seen BluestBlue say it) but personally this is only the second time I've called it for Johnson since Johnson v Starmer began. I think the same may be true of Big_G for instance.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,720
    Job retention bonus! £8000 per employee.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226

    MattW said:

    Who is Jennifer Boylan and why is she relevant?
    Good question. Why do those who complain about counter culture do so much to promote it by elevating non entities on twitter to the news.
    You've noticed. So have I. It's a very common trick indeed.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163

    PMQs today
    SKS - Why are you blaiming Care Workers it's your fault
    BJ - Careworkers have been brilliant I take full responsibility
    SKS - Why are you blaming Careworkers and not taking full responsibility
    BJ - I just did I will say again I pay tribute to Careworkers I was not blaming them The Govt takes full responsibility
    SKS That's not good enough this Careworker says she is upset that the PM is blaming Careworkers.
    BJ Are you fooking deaf or what.
    SKS repeat 3rd question
    BJ says learn to think on your feet you stupid person.
    SKS NHS parking blah blah bore on
    BJ Its free and unlike Lab we will make it free for some patients too.

    BJ 5-0 SKS
    BJ 5 fookin 0

    Starmer lucky to get nil

    "BJ - Careworkers have been brilliant I take full responsibility "

    Did BJ really say that? A massive hostage to fortune like that?

    If he did Starmer should have asked him to repeat it and then say "I have no further questions"
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Job retention bonus.

    Interesting. Very interesting.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,139
    Sunak announces bonus for employers who retain workers after furlough ends in October
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,902

    PMQs today
    SKS - Why are you blaiming Care Workers it's your fault
    BJ - Careworkers have been brilliant I take full responsibility
    SKS - Why are you blaming Careworkers and not taking full responsibility
    BJ - I just did I will say again I pay tribute to Careworkers I was not blaming them The Govt takes full responsibility
    SKS That's not good enough this Careworker says she is upset that the PM is blaming Careworkers.
    BJ Are you fooking deaf or what.
    SKS repeat 3rd question
    BJ says learn to think on your feet you stupid person.
    SKS NHS parking blah blah bore on
    BJ Its free and unlike Lab we will make it free for some patients too.

    BJ 5-0 SKS
    BJ 5 fookin 0

    Starmer lucky to get nil

    If only we had Corbyn as LOTO still instead. Imagine the triumph he would have had pinning Johnson down on the only important issue of the day - Palestine.
    Which party you in this week?
    Rearward Momentum
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,102

    Tories think Starmer did badly. I am shocked!

    He did.

    He was completely shite and unable to think on his feet.

    You think that was a triumph?
    No. I think it was poor.

    But PB Tories saying that means absolutely sod all.
    I have complimented Starmer on previous pmq but he was poor and wooden today, especially as he had an open goal on care
    You’re up Johnson’s backside, don’t try and pretend to be impartial.
    Just untrue and clearly you do not read my posts
  • NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,375

    Clear Johnson victory this week - only the second time I've said that since Starmer took over.

    Starmer needs to do better at thinking on his feet when the answers are given rather than continuing with his prescripted questions.

    I called it as 0-0 right up until the last question. However, "Why won't you keep free parking for NHS staff" asks Starmer. "Its our manifesto pledge to make it free for the patients as well". At which point Starmer sits there still with a mask on his face internally saying "fuuuuck". 1-0 to Shagger.

    Johnson is poor. No detail. gets angry. Waffles. But it can be effective against someone who doesn't deviate from a line of questioning regardless of what the response is.
    Damning of Starmer that he can't think on his feet.
    I have never understood the love in for Starmer. he is very ordinary. Never has the LOTO had so much ammo and he wastes it.
    He doesnt seem particularly likeable but neither is he dislikeable. Id see his job as making Labour a serious party again, and being there in case the govt becomes extremely unpopular by the next election - I think he can deliver on both of those, but wouldnt expect him to make Labour popular enough to beat a govt that has performed averagely or better.
    The problem is we live in a personality culture and he does not have one. Like him or loathe him it can't be argued that Johnson does not have a personality.

    Trump is a ridiculous politician but he became POTUS because he was different.

    Starmer would have been fine before the internet age, he is just too boring and can't think quickly
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    PMQs today
    SKS - Why are you blaiming Care Workers it's your fault
    BJ - Careworkers have been brilliant I take full responsibility
    SKS - Why are you blaming Careworkers and not taking full responsibility
    BJ - I just did I will say again I pay tribute to Careworkers I was not blaming them The Govt takes full responsibility
    SKS That's not good enough this Careworker says she is upset that the PM is blaming Careworkers.
    BJ Are you fooking deaf or what.
    SKS repeat 3rd question
    BJ says learn to think on your feet you stupid person.
    SKS NHS parking blah blah bore on
    BJ Its free and unlike Lab we will make it free for some patients too.

    BJ 5-0 SKS
    BJ 5 fookin 0

    Starmer lucky to get nil

    "BJ - Careworkers have been brilliant I take full responsibility "

    Did BJ really say that? A massive hostage to fortune like that?

    If he did Starmer should have asked him to repeat it and then say "I have no further questions"
    Yes he did in question one.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,249
    edited July 2020
    "Captain Hindsight" is a good moniker for Sir Kendrick, though I missed it in the exchanges.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,720
    Kickstart scheme for new jobs for young people.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676

    PMQs today
    SKS - Why are you blaiming Care Workers it's your fault
    BJ - Careworkers have been brilliant I take full responsibility
    SKS - Why are you blaming Careworkers and not taking full responsibility
    BJ - I just did I will say again I pay tribute to Careworkers I was not blaming them The Govt takes full responsibility
    SKS That's not good enough this Careworker says she is upset that the PM is blaming Careworkers.
    BJ Are you fooking deaf or what.
    SKS repeat 3rd question
    BJ says learn to think on your feet you stupid person.
    SKS NHS parking blah blah bore on
    BJ Its free and unlike Lab we will make it free for some patients too.

    BJ 5-0 SKS
    BJ 5 fookin 0

    Starmer lucky to get nil

    If only we had Corbyn as LOTO still instead. Imagine the triumph he would have had pinning Johnson down on the only important issue of the day - Palestine.
    Which party you in this week?
    Rearward Momentum
    I guess after rejections from all the serious Parties you have found your level
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226

    tlg86 said:

    Owen Jones tying himself in knots below that.

    He's seriously out of his depth.....
    He is with Margaret Atwood. But who isn't.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    kinabalu said:

    Starmer Q1: You're blaming care workers
    Johnson A1: I take responsibility myself, I pay tribute to care workers
    Starmer Q2: You're blaming care workers
    Johnson A2: I pay tribute to care workers and we are investing in care homes
    Starmer Q3: You're blaming care workers, what do you say to them?
    Johnson A3: I pay tribute to care workers and we are investing in care homes

    Except he's not taking responsibility himself. He's blaming care workers.
    Except he's not, he literally said "I take fully responsibility".
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,902
    He hasn't announced shopping tokens yet. Boooo! @MaxPB wants his Playstation!
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,837

    Clear Johnson victory this week - only the second time I've said that since Starmer took over.

    Starmer needs to do better at thinking on his feet when the answers are given rather than continuing with his prescripted questions.

    I called it as 0-0 right up until the last question. However, "Why won't you keep free parking for NHS staff" asks Starmer. "Its our manifesto pledge to make it free for the patients as well". At which point Starmer sits there still with a mask on his face internally saying "fuuuuck". 1-0 to Shagger.

    Johnson is poor. No detail. gets angry. Waffles. But it can be effective against someone who doesn't deviate from a line of questioning regardless of what the response is.
    Damning of Starmer that he can't think on his feet.
    I have never understood the love in for Starmer. he is very ordinary. Never has the LOTO had so much ammo and he wastes it.
    He doesnt seem particularly likeable but neither is he dislikeable. Id see his job as making Labour a serious party again, and being there in case the govt becomes extremely unpopular by the next election - I think he can deliver on both of those, but wouldnt expect him to make Labour popular enough to beat a govt that has performed averagely or better.
    The problem is we live in a personality culture and he does not have one. Like him or loathe him it can't be argued that Johnson does not have a personality.

    Trump is a ridiculous politician but he became POTUS because he was different.

    Starmer would have been fine before the internet age, he is just too boring and can't think quickly
    I agree and someone like Phillips would have been interesting, if potentially volatile. But maybe Labour just needed a steady eddie after their disaster with Corbyn.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,999
    Insofar as this is anything more than a stunt, I don't think this manifesto is going to be snapping up more Biden than Trump voters.

    https://twitter.com/guardian/status/1280822437391761410?s=20
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,902
    The £1k furlough bonus is politically clever. A sizable amount of cash to offer, and if companies fold before they take it it deflects the blame onto them.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868

    He hasn't announced shopping tokens yet. Boooo! @MaxPB wants his Playstation!

    Tbf, I'll buy one either way this is just a free way of doing it.
  • welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,464
    The Bryn Glas tunnels in Newport. A notorious bottle beck on the M4 the motorway between S Wales and Bristol/London.

    Drakeford canned a motorway by pass. Boris was implying he might override Drakeford I guess.



  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,885
    welshowl said:

    The Bryn Glas tunnels in Newport. A notorious bottle beck on the M4 the motorway between S Wales and Bristol/London.

    Drakeford canned a motorway by pass. Boris was implying he might override Drakeford I guess.



    Can he do that? Constitutionally I mean.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    The £1k furlough bonus is politically clever. A sizable amount of cash to offer, and if companies fold before they take it it deflects the blame onto them.

    Agreed, very clever.

    Plus the employers need to be trading through the Festive period and into the new year to claim it. Ones that are able to do that are likely able to continue afterwards.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,249

    Insofar as this is anything more than a stunt, I don't think this manifesto is going to be snapping up more Biden than Trump voters.

    https://twitter.com/guardian/status/1280822437391761410?s=20

    Oh dear.

    He's about to get cancelled.
This discussion has been closed.