What a bunch of shysters this country has running it, thieving people's money now.
No, this is stopping the shysters running Venezuela from thieving under the noses of the population.
If they are democratically elected like our shysters who are robbing us blind , they should set the same standards for others.
They aren't democratically elected. That's the whole point, malc.
Who elected them then, just because they beat the yanks puppet does not mean much. Think we should be investigating our own lots democracy and money laundering rather than pinching more from other people.
You've not heard of corrupt elections?
Yeah, on no less than 5 occasions at US elections, the winner of the popular vote among Americans was prevented from taking office by the corrupt and outdated Electoral Kindergarten!
Which five elections were those?
1824 - John Quincy Adams over Andrew Johnson (but election decided NOT by Electoral College but rather by US House)
1876 - Rutherford B. Hayes over Samuel Tilden (but election decided by special commission NOT EC) note- Democrats said eventual victor was "Rutherfraud B. Hayes)
Alternatively, PBers can hire a stealth aircraft and fly to Rapid City, South Dakota to attend President Trump's rally/desecration at Mount Rushmore.
WHY he'd want to compare his small, ever-shrinking self to his great, gigantic predecessors is a mystery - but then so are MANY aspects of Our Fearless Leader, such as his tax situation.
AND at least you will NOT have your freedom abridged by having to wear a mask!
What a bunch of shysters this country has running it, thieving people's money now.
They aren't stealing anything, the UK just doesn't recognise him as the legitimate ruler of Venezuela.
It might make other dodgy dictators less willing to stash their loot in our money laundering system. Good for world governance, and probably less scrupulous bankers...
Indeed. It also appears that various organised crime agencies around the world have had a good few weeks, plenty of international money launderers and drug dealers have been caught out by having to stay in one place for too long.
I think it's more due to the "secure" private communication network the criminal gangs had been using for 4 years being compromised for 3 months before anyone announced the fact.
What an absolute gold mine that must have been! I wonder how many gangs were disrupted by this.
I missed this. Sweden is now accepting that they got it WRONG
***
Sweden's prime minister has ordered an inquiry into the country's decision not to impose a coronavirus lockdown after the country suffered thousands more deaths than its closest neighbours.
"We have thousands of dead," Swedish prime minister Stefan Lofven said at a press conference on Wednesday, while admitting that the country's handling had exposed Sweden's "shortcomings," The Times of London reported.
"Now the question is how Sweden should change, not if."
What a bunch of shysters this country has running it, thieving people's money now.
They aren't stealing anything, the UK just doesn't recognise him as the legitimate ruler of Venezuela.
It might make other dodgy dictators less willing to stash their loot in our money laundering system. Good for world governance, and probably less scrupulous bankers...
Indeed. It also appears that various organised crime agencies around the world have had a good few weeks, plenty of international money launderers and drug dealers have been caught out by having to stay in one place for too long.
I think it's more due to the "secure" private communication network the criminal gangs had been using for 4 years being compromised for 3 months before anyone announced the fact.
What an absolute gold mine that must have been! I wonder how many gangs were disrupted by this.
I missed this. Sweden is now accepting that they got it WRONG
***
Sweden's prime minister has ordered an inquiry into the country's decision not to impose a coronavirus lockdown after the country suffered thousands more deaths than its closest neighbours.
"We have thousands of dead," Swedish prime minister Stefan Lofven said at a press conference on Wednesday, while admitting that the country's handling had exposed Sweden's "shortcomings," The Times of London reported.
"Now the question is how Sweden should change, not if."
Almost crashed the car laughing when I heard the limit on the number of people that should visit one house at this stage in the pandemic was announced as err.. 30. Implies, almost unbelievably, people had been having larger gatherings than that previously.
I was watching a car crash on TV at 5.00, perhaps it was yours?
The Grand Prix isn’t until Sunday!
Was this you, FPT ? ...Jonny Wilkinson Drops for World Cup Glory, at 10am in the pub after about eight pints has to be the winner....
I am massively jealous that anyone got to witness such a re-enactment.
What time was it in the UK, as I was there at the time? Sure it started at 8am, and the pubs all opened specially.
Ah. I thought you meant you saw the great man himself demonstrate the win, after an early morning session.
LOL, no it was me who had been on a morning session, when I watched Mr Wilkinson on TV kick the greatest drop goal of all time, several times zones ahead! https://youtube.com/watch?v=RGHoQfSjsXY
I’m relieved not to have missed it... but slightly disappointed; it was a magnificent mental image.
It’s good rugby, but of course the context is everything. This was the last twenty seconds of extra time, in the World Cup final, with the scores level. And the whole nation was in the pub, shitfaced at 10 in the morning.
For anyone English who doesn’t remember 1966, it was their country’s biggest sporting moment.
What a bunch of shysters this country has running it, thieving people's money now.
No, this is stopping the shysters running Venezuela from thieving under the noses of the population.
If they are democratically elected like our shysters who are robbing us blind , they should set the same standards for others.
They aren't democratically elected. That's the whole point, malc.
Who elected them then, just because they beat the yanks puppet does not mean much. Think we should be investigating our own lots democracy and money laundering rather than pinching more from other people.
You've not heard of corrupt elections?
Yeah, on no less than 5 occasions at US elections, the winner of the popular vote among Americans was prevented from taking office by the corrupt and outdated Electoral Kindergarten!
Which five elections were those?
1824 - John Quincy Adams over Andrew Johnson (but election decided NOT by Electoral College but rather by US House)
1876 - Rutherford B. Hayes over Samuel Tilden (but election decided by special commission NOT EC) note- Democrats said eventual victor was "Rutherfraud B. Hayes)
1888 - Benjamin Harrison over Grover Cleveland
2000 - George W. Bush over Al Gore
2016 - Donald Trump over Hillary Clinton
Ta.
In 1824 there were four serious presidential candidates, who split the vote between them. Jackson had the most popular votes, but JQ Adams won the election in the US House, where each state delegation had one vote.
JQA won because Henry Clay swung his supporters to him, and then was named Secretary of State (then regarded as a stepping stone to the presidency) when Adams assumed office. This was the "corrupt bargain" denounced by Jackson and his follower, who immediately began campaigning to elect Old Hickory at the next election - which they did.
Smart questioning from AleX Forsyth. She is head and shoulders more measured than any other BBC staffers questioning Johnson over the pandemic at these pressers. That said, he didn't answer the questions or give her a right to reply.
I missed this. Sweden is now accepting that they got it WRONG
***
Sweden's prime minister has ordered an inquiry into the country's decision not to impose a coronavirus lockdown after the country suffered thousands more deaths than its closest neighbours.
"We have thousands of dead," Swedish prime minister Stefan Lofven said at a press conference on Wednesday, while admitting that the country's handling had exposed Sweden's "shortcomings," The Times of London reported.
"Now the question is how Sweden should change, not if."
It was obvious from the very beginning their strategy was turning into a mistake but the lockdown sceptics here said no Sweden is the way to go.
Funny thing is, arguably our strategy wasn’t ultimately that different from theirs. We had a loose lockdown, they had tightened regulations on gatherings short of a lockdown.
I missed this. Sweden is now accepting that they got it WRONG
***
Sweden's prime minister has ordered an inquiry into the country's decision not to impose a coronavirus lockdown after the country suffered thousands more deaths than its closest neighbours.
"We have thousands of dead," Swedish prime minister Stefan Lofven said at a press conference on Wednesday, while admitting that the country's handling had exposed Sweden's "shortcomings," The Times of London reported.
"Now the question is how Sweden should change, not if."
It was obvious from the very beginning their strategy was turning into a mistake but the lockdown sceptics here said no Sweden is the way to go.
"Obvious"? Nothing to do with coronavirus is obvious, except WEAR A DAMN MASK
Sweden's was a brave attempt to tough out the virus while preserving as much of the economy and normal life as possible. It may not have worked as well as they hoped (though it is too soon to say for sure) but here's one thing: Swedish kids have not missed a day of school, whereas British kids have been locked at home and have lost almost half a year of education, socialising, emotional learning...
I missed this. Sweden is now accepting that they got it WRONG
***
Sweden's prime minister has ordered an inquiry into the country's decision not to impose a coronavirus lockdown after the country suffered thousands more deaths than its closest neighbours.
"We have thousands of dead," Swedish prime minister Stefan Lofven said at a press conference on Wednesday, while admitting that the country's handling had exposed Sweden's "shortcomings," The Times of London reported.
"Now the question is how Sweden should change, not if."
What a bunch of shysters this country has running it, thieving people's money now.
They aren't stealing anything, the UK just doesn't recognise him as the legitimate ruler of Venezuela.
It might make other dodgy dictators less willing to stash their loot in our money laundering system. Good for world governance, and probably less scrupulous bankers...
Indeed. It also appears that various organised crime agencies around the world have had a good few weeks, plenty of international money launderers and drug dealers have been caught out by having to stay in one place for too long.
I think it's more due to the "secure" private communication network the criminal gangs had been using for 4 years being compromised for 3 months before anyone announced the fact.
What an absolute gold mine that must have been! I wonder how many gangs were disrupted by this.
Smart questioning from AleX Forsyth. She is head and shoulders more measured than any other BBC staffers questioning Johnson over the pandemic at these pressers. That said, he didn't answer the questions or give her a right to reply.
Boris doesn't do answers
*nobly refrains from making a very sexist joke about what he does instead...*
I missed this. Sweden is now accepting that they got it WRONG
***
Sweden's prime minister has ordered an inquiry into the country's decision not to impose a coronavirus lockdown after the country suffered thousands more deaths than its closest neighbours.
"We have thousands of dead," Swedish prime minister Stefan Lofven said at a press conference on Wednesday, while admitting that the country's handling had exposed Sweden's "shortcomings," The Times of London reported.
"Now the question is how Sweden should change, not if."
It was obvious from the very beginning their strategy was turning into a mistake but the lockdown sceptics here said no Sweden is the way to go.
Funny thing is, arguably our strategy wasn’t ultimately that different from theirs. We had a loose lockdown, they had tightened regulations on gatherings short of a lockdown.
Which may explain why we both had so many deaths.
Poor Hitchens, Hames et al really didn't get their heads around the difference between a de jure lockdown and a de facto lockdown
I missed this. Sweden is now accepting that they got it WRONG
***
Sweden's prime minister has ordered an inquiry into the country's decision not to impose a coronavirus lockdown after the country suffered thousands more deaths than its closest neighbours.
"We have thousands of dead," Swedish prime minister Stefan Lofven said at a press conference on Wednesday, while admitting that the country's handling had exposed Sweden's "shortcomings," The Times of London reported.
"Now the question is how Sweden should change, not if."
It was obvious from the very beginning their strategy was turning into a mistake but the lockdown sceptics here said no Sweden is the way to go.
Funny thing is, arguably our strategy wasn’t ultimately that different from theirs. We had a loose lockdown, they had tightened regulations on gatherings short of a lockdown.
Which may explain why we both had so many deaths.
Poor Hitchens, Hames et al really didn't get their heads around the difference between a de jure lockdown and a de facto lockdown
They also didn't know what stochastic meant. Quite an embarrassing moment.
What a bunch of shysters this country has running it, thieving people's money now.
They aren't stealing anything, the UK just doesn't recognise him as the legitimate ruler of Venezuela.
It might make other dodgy dictators less willing to stash their loot in our money laundering system. Good for world governance, and probably less scrupulous bankers...
Indeed. It also appears that various organised crime agencies around the world have had a good few weeks, plenty of international money launderers and drug dealers have been caught out by having to stay in one place for too long.
I think it's more due to the "secure" private communication network the criminal gangs had been using for 4 years being compromised for 3 months before anyone announced the fact.
What an absolute gold mine that must have been! I wonder how many gangs were disrupted by this.
It’s one of the reasons you need some degree of graduate level entry into the police for, especially good IT specialists.
It’s a reason why the police should be welcoming good IT specialists, which is not quite the same. Most of the technical work was from CCHQ and various similar foreign agencies, it was the French with the breakthrough in this one I think.
The guys knocking doors on houses full of drugs, guns and cash really don’t need to have £27,000 of debt getting a pointless degree though.
I missed this. Sweden is now accepting that they got it WRONG
***
Sweden's prime minister has ordered an inquiry into the country's decision not to impose a coronavirus lockdown after the country suffered thousands more deaths than its closest neighbours.
"We have thousands of dead," Swedish prime minister Stefan Lofven said at a press conference on Wednesday, while admitting that the country's handling had exposed Sweden's "shortcomings," The Times of London reported.
"Now the question is how Sweden should change, not if."
It was obvious from the very beginning their strategy was turning into a mistake but the lockdown sceptics here said no Sweden is the way to go.
Funny thing is, arguably our strategy wasn’t ultimately that different from theirs. We had a loose lockdown, they had tightened regulations on gatherings short of a lockdown.
Which may explain why we both had so many deaths.
Poor Hitchens, Hames et al really didn't get their heads around the difference between a de jure lockdown and a de facto lockdown
Only Sweden and the USA have been more lenient than the height of the UK lockdown. Hundreds of millions of people elsewhere had to take advance permission from the police even to go out for food and medicines.
I missed this. Sweden is now accepting that they got it WRONG
***
Sweden's prime minister has ordered an inquiry into the country's decision not to impose a coronavirus lockdown after the country suffered thousands more deaths than its closest neighbours.
"We have thousands of dead," Swedish prime minister Stefan Lofven said at a press conference on Wednesday, while admitting that the country's handling had exposed Sweden's "shortcomings," The Times of London reported.
"Now the question is how Sweden should change, not if."
It was obvious from the very beginning their strategy was turning into a mistake but the lockdown sceptics here said no Sweden is the way to go.
Funny thing is, arguably our strategy wasn’t ultimately that different from theirs. We had a loose lockdown, they had tightened regulations on gatherings short of a lockdown.
Which may explain why we both had so many deaths.
Poor Hitchens, Hames et al really didn't get their heads around the difference between a de jure lockdown and a de facto lockdown
They also didn't know what stochastic meant. Quite an embarrassing moment.
Indeed, it really is a failing that so many in journalism these days are so crap with statistics.
Will Trumpsky quit? Personally think answer is NO.
However, it is true that he's cut and run out of just about EVERYBODY that's trusted him with their money, malt or maidservant.
Just ask Ivana & Marla & residents of Atlantic City & hordes of less-than-satisfied investors & business partners.
SO cannot be ruled out. Except that his all-consuming hubris will make him believe he can rekindle the magic and fool the American people one more time.
I think Ivana did pretty well didn't she? She seems to be ok with him.
Will Trumpsky quit? Personally think answer is NO.
However, it is true that he's cut and run out of just about EVERYBODY that's trusted him with their money, malt or maidservant.
Just ask Ivana & Marla & residents of Atlantic City & hordes of less-than-satisfied investors & business partners.
SO cannot be ruled out. Except that his all-consuming hubris will make him believe he can rekindle the magic and fool the American people one more time.
I think Ivana did pretty well didn't she? She seems to be ok with him.
Smart questioning from AleX Forsyth. She is head and shoulders more measured than any other BBC staffers questioning Johnson over the pandemic at these pressers. That said, he didn't answer the questions or give her a right to reply.
Boris doesn't do answers
Probably a wise precaution. Whether he attempted something vaguely like an answer it turned out as blithering nonsense.
What a bunch of shysters this country has running it, thieving people's money now.
No, this is stopping the shysters running Venezuela from thieving under the noses of the population.
If they are democratically elected like our shysters who are robbing us blind , they should set the same standards for others.
They aren't democratically elected. That's the whole point, malc.
Who elected them then, just because they beat the yanks puppet does not mean much. Think we should be investigating our own lots democracy and money laundering rather than pinching more from other people.
You've not heard of corrupt elections?
Yeah, on no less than 5 occasions at US elections, the winner of the popular vote among Americans was prevented from taking office by the corrupt and outdated Electoral Kindergarten!
Happened to Attlee and Labour in 1951 and Heath and the Tories in February 1974 here too and Scheer and the Canadian Conservatives in Canada last year and Bill English and the New Zealand Nationals in 2017 and Sinn Fein in Ireland this year.
In every case the winner of the popular vote did not form the government
What a bunch of shysters this country has running it, thieving people's money now.
They aren't stealing anything, the UK just doesn't recognise him as the legitimate ruler of Venezuela.
It might make other dodgy dictators less willing to stash their loot in our money laundering system. Good for world governance, and probably less scrupulous bankers...
Indeed. It also appears that various organised crime agencies around the world have had a good few weeks, plenty of international money launderers and drug dealers have been caught out by having to stay in one place for too long.
I think it's more due to the "secure" private communication network the criminal gangs had been using for 4 years being compromised for 3 months before anyone announced the fact.
What an absolute gold mine that must have been! I wonder how many gangs were disrupted by this.
It’s one of the reasons you need some degree of graduate level entry into the police for, especially good IT specialists.
It’s a reason why the police should be welcoming good IT specialists, which is not quite the same. Most of the technical work was from CCHQ and various similar foreign agencies, it was the French with the breakthrough in this one I think.
The guys knocking doors on houses full of drugs, guns and cash really don’t need to have £27,000 of debt getting a pointless degree though.
Does it need to? And going forward, does it need to join every EU scheme under the sun?
What if the UK vaccine currently being developed doesn’t work out ? Wouldn’t it make sense to have an insurance policy ? Or does the hatred of anything with EU in the name by the cabinet mean the UK puts all its eggs in one basket .
You think the only way of doing that is with the EU?
I think Tonga has an advanced programme which we could ask to piggyback.
Since you're mocking Tonga can you point me in the direction of the advanced programmes of research the EU has into a vaccine? How do they compare with the Oxford/Astrazenica research?
Mocking Tonga? Your kidding, right? I think we should jump in with both feet to whatever they are doing.
Why wouldn't I? Tonga and the EU are pretty similar in all sorts of ways.
I think we should keep open eyes to what everyone's doing but I'm not especially familiar with either Tonga's scheme of research or the EU's.
I'm aware of trials ongoing in the UK, USA, Brazil, South Africa, China and elsewhere - I'm curious about these EU trials to which you refer can you point me in their direction please I'd like to read up on them?
Here you go, one of the main candidates is this one:
(although I think the EU's new announcement is more about buying power than research).
Thanks. I suspect so yes for your brackets. Considering we've already got an agreement with Astrazenica for production of a vaccine I'm not sure whether reneging on that to sign up for an alternative arrangement is better or not.
What a bunch of shysters this country has running it, thieving people's money now.
No, this is stopping the shysters running Venezuela from thieving under the noses of the population.
If they are democratically elected like our shysters who are robbing us blind , they should set the same standards for others.
They aren't democratically elected. That's the whole point, malc.
Who elected them then, just because they beat the yanks puppet does not mean much. Think we should be investigating our own lots democracy and money laundering rather than pinching more from other people.
No one elected them, the opposition won the last election and then Maduro abolished the lower house. Venezuela is a dictatorship.
Maduro, like Chavez, is the kind of socialist who is worth billions despite a tiny official salary.
It's warmed over Peronism - class war on the EvilRich, while they are filling their pockets from the till.
As a Friday night fun piece, and as a counter to people being careful about their words in recent times, Britain’s most uncancellable comedian just posted 13 minutes of his “Most Offensive Jokes”. https://youtube.com/watch?v=1lTJ9ef7S0c
What a bunch of shysters this country has running it, thieving people's money now.
They aren't stealing anything, the UK just doesn't recognise him as the legitimate ruler of Venezuela.
It might make other dodgy dictators less willing to stash their loot in our money laundering system. Good for world governance, and probably less scrupulous bankers...
Indeed. It also appears that various organised crime agencies around the world have had a good few weeks, plenty of international money launderers and drug dealers have been caught out by having to stay in one place for too long.
I think it's more due to the "secure" private communication network the criminal gangs had been using for 4 years being compromised for 3 months before anyone announced the fact.
That was quite hillarious, a bunch of idiots managed a half-arsed effort at an “enctpted phone and messaging system” and convinced thousands of criminals to pay $1500 for them.
In this part of the world, the big takedown was a Nigerian “Propertly Developer” caught with suitcases of cash from running fake bank websites harvesting personal data. He built up a social media following as one of these guys who drives around in Rolls Royces and Ferraris telling everyone how rich he is, and how rich you could be if you invest in his “business”.
The idea wan't that bad - except that it depended on keeping their own system secure. Once that was compromised, the police agencies could install spying software on all the phones.
I missed this. Sweden is now accepting that they got it WRONG
***
Sweden's prime minister has ordered an inquiry into the country's decision not to impose a coronavirus lockdown after the country suffered thousands more deaths than its closest neighbours.
"We have thousands of dead," Swedish prime minister Stefan Lofven said at a press conference on Wednesday, while admitting that the country's handling had exposed Sweden's "shortcomings," The Times of London reported.
"Now the question is how Sweden should change, not if."
Most places, us included, followed such advice as they had been given, with an amount of political leeway. It will be important to distinguish in each country where failures were of the advice or decision variety.
What a bunch of shysters this country has running it, thieving people's money now.
They aren't stealing anything, the UK just doesn't recognise him as the legitimate ruler of Venezuela.
It might make other dodgy dictators less willing to stash their loot in our money laundering system. Good for world governance, and probably less scrupulous bankers...
Indeed. It also appears that various organised crime agencies around the world have had a good few weeks, plenty of international money launderers and drug dealers have been caught out by having to stay in one place for too long.
I think it's more due to the "secure" private communication network the criminal gangs had been using for 4 years being compromised for 3 months before anyone announced the fact.
That was quite hillarious, a bunch of idiots managed a half-arsed effort at an “enctpted phone and messaging system” and convinced thousands of criminals to pay $1500 for them.
In this part of the world, the big takedown was a Nigerian “Propertly Developer” caught with suitcases of cash from running fake bank websites harvesting personal data. He built up a social media following as one of these guys who drives around in Rolls Royces and Ferraris telling everyone how rich he is, and how rich you could be if you invest in his “business”.
The idea wan't that bad - except that it depended on keeping their own system secure. Once that was compromised, the police agencies could install spying software on all the phones.
What a bunch of shysters this country has running it, thieving people's money now.
They aren't stealing anything, the UK just doesn't recognise him as the legitimate ruler of Venezuela.
It might make other dodgy dictators less willing to stash their loot in our money laundering system. Good for world governance, and probably less scrupulous bankers...
Indeed. It also appears that various organised crime agencies around the world have had a good few weeks, plenty of international money launderers and drug dealers have been caught out by having to stay in one place for too long.
I think it's more due to the "secure" private communication network the criminal gangs had been using for 4 years being compromised for 3 months before anyone announced the fact.
What an absolute gold mine that must have been! I wonder how many gangs were disrupted by this.
It’s one of the reasons you need some degree of graduate level entry into the police for, especially good IT specialists.
It’s a reason why the police should be welcoming good IT specialists, which is not quite the same. Most of the technical work was from CCHQ and various similar foreign agencies, it was the French with the breakthrough in this one I think.
The guys knocking doors on houses full of drugs, guns and cash really don’t need to have £27,000 of debt getting a pointless degree though.
Probably GCHQ.
LOL yeah, need more wine and a better autocorrect system.
I missed this. Sweden is now accepting that they got it WRONG
***
Sweden's prime minister has ordered an inquiry into the country's decision not to impose a coronavirus lockdown after the country suffered thousands more deaths than its closest neighbours.
"We have thousands of dead," Swedish prime minister Stefan Lofven said at a press conference on Wednesday, while admitting that the country's handling had exposed Sweden's "shortcomings," The Times of London reported.
"Now the question is how Sweden should change, not if."
Though Sweden is still only 5th on Covid deaths per million and has suffered less economic damage than most locked down economies will have.
The most successful countries of all are those like South Korea which mass tested early and avoided mass Covid deaths and the economic damage of lockdown
What a bunch of shysters this country has running it, thieving people's money now.
They aren't stealing anything, the UK just doesn't recognise him as the legitimate ruler of Venezuela.
It might make other dodgy dictators less willing to stash their loot in our money laundering system. Good for world governance, and probably less scrupulous bankers...
Indeed. It also appears that various organised crime agencies around the world have had a good few weeks, plenty of international money launderers and drug dealers have been caught out by having to stay in one place for too long.
I think it's more due to the "secure" private communication network the criminal gangs had been using for 4 years being compromised for 3 months before anyone announced the fact.
That was quite hillarious, a bunch of idiots managed a half-arsed effort at an “enctpted phone and messaging system” and convinced thousands of criminals to pay $1500 for them.
In this part of the world, the big takedown was a Nigerian “Propertly Developer” caught with suitcases of cash from running fake bank websites harvesting personal data. He built up a social media following as one of these guys who drives around in Rolls Royces and Ferraris telling everyone how rich he is, and how rich you could be if you invest in his “business”.
The idea wan't that bad - except that it depended on keeping their own system secure. Once that was compromised, the police agencies could install spying software on all the phones.
Centralised security fails again....
Is WhatsApp more secure?
Signal. It’s like Whatsapp but properly decentralised and not run by Facebook. Endorsed by Edward Snowden among others.
What a bunch of shysters this country has running it, thieving people's money now.
No, this is stopping the shysters running Venezuela from thieving under the noses of the population.
If they are democratically elected like our shysters who are robbing us blind , they should set the same standards for others.
They aren't democratically elected. That's the whole point, malc.
Who elected them then, just because they beat the yanks puppet does not mean much. Think we should be investigating our own lots democracy and money laundering rather than pinching more from other people.
No one elected them, the opposition won the last election and then Maduro abolished the lower house. Venezuela is a dictatorship.
Quite. It can be subtle sometimes, but the whole 'set up your own puppet assembly and stack the courts when you lose control of an elected chamber' can be a bit of a giveaway.
It is hard to conceive of a good defence of that, but instinctive anti-authority to our own government shouldn't lead to that stance.
I missed this. Sweden is now accepting that they got it WRONG
***
Sweden's prime minister has ordered an inquiry into the country's decision not to impose a coronavirus lockdown after the country suffered thousands more deaths than its closest neighbours.
"We have thousands of dead," Swedish prime minister Stefan Lofven said at a press conference on Wednesday, while admitting that the country's handling had exposed Sweden's "shortcomings," The Times of London reported.
"Now the question is how Sweden should change, not if."
I missed this. Sweden is now accepting that they got it WRONG
***
Sweden's prime minister has ordered an inquiry into the country's decision not to impose a coronavirus lockdown after the country suffered thousands more deaths than its closest neighbours.
"We have thousands of dead," Swedish prime minister Stefan Lofven said at a press conference on Wednesday, while admitting that the country's handling had exposed Sweden's "shortcomings," The Times of London reported.
"Now the question is how Sweden should change, not if."
A lot of hype about July 4th causing a big spike in infections. I don't see it.
Time and again we've had worries about infection spikes after people enjoying the outside and it hasn't happened - so after the first few times I concluded that the outside is mostly safe.
My memory of my one 4th of July in the US was that most events were outdoors events. The weather is warm, fireworks are necessarily outside, and a Turkey dinner is not the centrepiece as it is for Thanksgiving.
The main worry is a more low-key one. Young people travelling home to spend the weekend with their folks and bringing the infection with them.
You probably want to encourage people to spend as much time outside of the house as possible to reduce the risk of transmission within these temporary households. Turn off the TV broadcasts, put on extra fireworks and hand out free marshmallows for making smores on open fires.
I missed this. Sweden is now accepting that they got it WRONG
***
Sweden's prime minister has ordered an inquiry into the country's decision not to impose a coronavirus lockdown after the country suffered thousands more deaths than its closest neighbours.
"We have thousands of dead," Swedish prime minister Stefan Lofven said at a press conference on Wednesday, while admitting that the country's handling had exposed Sweden's "shortcomings," The Times of London reported.
"Now the question is how Sweden should change, not if."
Almost crashed the car laughing when I heard the limit on the number of people that should visit one house at this stage in the pandemic was announced as err.. 30. Implies, almost unbelievably, people had been having larger gatherings than that previously.
I was watching a car crash on TV at 5.00, perhaps it was yours?
The Grand Prix isn’t until Sunday!
Was this you, FPT ? ...Jonny Wilkinson Drops for World Cup Glory, at 10am in the pub after about eight pints has to be the winner....
I am massively jealous that anyone got to witness such a re-enactment.
What time was it in the UK, as I was there at the time? Sure it started at 8am, and the pubs all opened specially.
Ah. I thought you meant you saw the great man himself demonstrate the win, after an early morning session.
LOL, no it was me who had been on a morning session, when I watched Mr Wilkinson on TV kick the greatest drop goal of all time, several times zones ahead! https://youtube.com/watch?v=RGHoQfSjsXY
I’m relieved not to have missed it... but slightly disappointed; it was a magnificent mental image.
It’s good rugby, but of course the context is everything. This was the last twenty seconds of extra time, in the World Cup final, with the scores level. And the whole nation was in the pub, shitfaced at 10 in the morning.
For anyone English who doesn’t remember 1966, it was their country’s biggest sporting moment.
What a bunch of shysters this country has running it, thieving people's money now.
This comment is about the most ignorant ever posted on PB - and that's saying something.
It's 'I'm a rebel standing up to the state' posturing running into inconvenient facts about Venezuela, and a little sad really.
As a rule, banks should give people their money if asked. It sets a bad precedent if they don't.
Yep, but the judgement stated that the person requesting didn't represent the legitimate government of Venezuela.
I am not sure that's a judgement we can make. Economically disastrous commies and thoroughly unpleasant, perhaps, but they are in power and have been for some time.
What a bunch of shysters this country has running it, thieving people's money now.
This comment is about the most ignorant ever posted on PB - and that's saying something.
It's 'I'm a rebel standing up to the state' posturing running into inconvenient facts about Venezuela, and a little sad really.
As a rule, banks should give people their money if asked. It sets a bad precedent if they don't.
Yep, but the judgement stated that the person requesting didn't represent the legitimate government of Venezuela.
I am not sure that's a judgement we can make. Economically disastrous commies and thoroughly unpleasant, perhaps, but they are in power and have been for some time.
It's a judgement made all the time, and it has nothing to do with the economics, rather the sham of the recent election.
I missed this. Sweden is now accepting that they got it WRONG
***
Sweden's prime minister has ordered an inquiry into the country's decision not to impose a coronavirus lockdown after the country suffered thousands more deaths than its closest neighbours.
"We have thousands of dead," Swedish prime minister Stefan Lofven said at a press conference on Wednesday, while admitting that the country's handling had exposed Sweden's "shortcomings," The Times of London reported.
"Now the question is how Sweden should change, not if."
Though Sweden is still only 5th on Covid deaths per million and has suffered less economic damage than most locked down economies will have.
The most successful countries of all are those like South Korea which mass tested early and avoided mass Covid deaths and the economic damage of lockdown
If we hadn’t prioritised emptying the hospitals for the tsunami of cases that never came, by pushing so many patients untested back into care homes, our figures would be a whole lot better.
What a bunch of shysters this country has running it, thieving people's money now.
This comment is about the most ignorant ever posted on PB - and that's saying something.
It's 'I'm a rebel standing up to the state' posturing running into inconvenient facts about Venezuela, and a little sad really.
As a rule, banks should give people their money if asked. It sets a bad precedent if they don't.
Yep, but the judgement stated that the person requesting didn't represent the legitimate government of Venezuela.
I am not sure that's a judgement we can make. Economically disastrous commies and thoroughly unpleasant, perhaps, but they are in power and have been for some time.
It's a judgement made all the time, and it has nothing to do with the economics, rather the sham of the recent election.
We would give the money back to an autocrat without hesitation though, so was their mistake pretending to have an election?
It is an awful situation for the people of Venezuela, and I am not sure what the morally right position is.
Alternatively, PBers can hire a stealth aircraft and fly to Rapid City, South Dakota to attend President Trump's rally/desecration at Mount Rushmore.
WHY he'd want to compare his small, ever-shrinking self to his great, gigantic predecessors is a mystery - but then so are MANY aspects of Our Fearless Leader, such as his tax situation.
AND at least you will NOT have your freedom abridged by having to wear a mask!
Alternatively, PBers can hire a stealth aircraft and fly to Rapid City, South Dakota to attend President Trump's rally/desecration at Mount Rushmore.
WHY he'd want to compare his small, ever-shrinking self to his great, gigantic predecessors is a mystery - but then so are MANY aspects of Our Fearless Leader, such as his tax situation.
AND at least you will NOT have your freedom abridged by having to wear a mask!
While there, you can go look at their piece of the Berlin Wall.
Another relevant quotation from Samuel Pepys. "The taverns are full of gadabouts making merry this eve. And though I may press my face against the window like an urchin at a confectioner's, I am tempted not by the sweetmeats within. A dram in exchange for the pox is an ill bargain indeed".
That annual delight - quotations from school exams; this time from Caithness RE. "Lots wife was a pillar of salt during the day but a ball of fire during the night". And even better: "St Paul cavorted to Christianity, he preached holy acrimony, which is another name for marriage".
Another relevant quotation from Samuel Pepys. "The taverns are full of gadabouts making merry this eve. And though I may press my face against the window like an urchin at a confectioner's, I am tempted not by the sweetmeats within. A dram in exchange for the pox is an ill bargain indeed".
It's made up by the Twitter account. It's not real.
Re: Venezuela, believe there is a significant difference between Chavez & his successor.
Chavez made many mistakes,by the boatload. Yet one thing stands out - despite his excesses, he did more for the mass of the people of his nation, than ANYONE had ever done or really tried to do. Including his hero Bolivar.
Reminds me of Huey Long. Who also used questionable method (to put it most mildly) but was the FIRST governor of Louisiana who actually did something - anything - for the average person.
Years ago knew an old fellow who had been a boy in Bogalusa LA. Went with his daddy to a rally by the Kingfish, where he (Huey not daddy) jumped on a stump and harangued the crowd in typical style.
"Son," said daddy, "you remember that man. 'Cause he's the only damn one that ever did a damn thing for folks like us."
SO Chavez was NOT all bad. But Maduro? He's like the bums who took over Huey's operation when the Kingfish was gone. And ran it straight to the penitentiary.
Now Huey Long had more than a touch of larceny in his soul. Yet he was NOT just a crook, or even fundamentally crooked. He just believed that his ends justified his means. Think same was true of Hugo Chavez.
What a bunch of shysters this country has running it, thieving people's money now.
This comment is about the most ignorant ever posted on PB - and that's saying something.
It's 'I'm a rebel standing up to the state' posturing running into inconvenient facts about Venezuela, and a little sad really.
As a rule, banks should give people their money if asked. It sets a bad precedent if they don't.
It does nothing of the kind, because it's a dispute about government legitimacy and that is a political question and always has been. Besides which, that was not the bit that was sad, it was the pathetic attempt to criticise that action without any recognition of the facts of the situation re the dictatorships actions.
We can criticise any action if we leave out the other side conveniently, and its purpose was pretty apparent to boot - instinctual anti government bullcrap. A debate about whether even in the current situation the action not to release is right or not would be a different matter, but spouting off abotu shysters int his country as if there was nothing behind the act was just sad.
What a bunch of shysters this country has running it, thieving people's money now.
No, this is stopping the shysters running Venezuela from thieving under the noses of the population.
If they are democratically elected like our shysters who are robbing us blind , they should set the same standards for others.
They aren't democratically elected. That's the whole point, malc.
Who elected them then, just because they beat the yanks puppet does not mean much. Think we should be investigating our own lots democracy and money laundering rather than pinching more from other people.
You've not heard of corrupt elections?
Yeah, on no less than 5 occasions at US elections, the winner of the popular vote among Americans was prevented from taking office by the corrupt and outdated Electoral Kindergarten!
Happened to Attlee and Labour in 1951 and Heath and the Tories in February 1974 here too and Scheer and the Canadian Conservatives in Canada last year and Bill English and the New Zealand Nationals in 2017 and Sinn Fein in Ireland this year.
In every case the winner of the popular vote did not form the government
The 2017 New Zealand election was decided on "one man, one vote", that man being Winston Peters.
The Nationals regretting being so principled now and refusing to get into a dutch auction for his support, Ardern has had the best pandemic of any leader and looks impossible to beat this year.
I missed this. Sweden is now accepting that they got it WRONG
***
Sweden's prime minister has ordered an inquiry into the country's decision not to impose a coronavirus lockdown after the country suffered thousands more deaths than its closest neighbours.
"We have thousands of dead," Swedish prime minister Stefan Lofven said at a press conference on Wednesday, while admitting that the country's handling had exposed Sweden's "shortcomings," The Times of London reported.
"Now the question is how Sweden should change, not if."
What a bunch of shysters this country has running it, thieving people's money now.
This comment is about the most ignorant ever posted on PB - and that's saying something.
It's 'I'm a rebel standing up to the state' posturing running into inconvenient facts about Venezuela, and a little sad really.
As a rule, banks should give people their money if asked. It sets a bad precedent if they don't.
Yep, but the judgement stated that the person requesting didn't represent the legitimate government of Venezuela.
I am not sure that's a judgement we can make. Economically disastrous commies and thoroughly unpleasant, perhaps, but they are in power and have been for some time.
It's a judgement made all the time, and it has nothing to do with the economics, rather the sham of the recent election.
We would give the money back to an autocrat without hesitation though, so was their mistake pretending to have an election?
It is an awful situation for the people of Venezuela, and I am not sure what the morally right position is.
We recognise many autocrats, but not this one, thus the situation is not the same. That's inconsistent and morally difficult, no question, but has little bearing on the pathetic criticism of this country acting like shysters. Uncertainty as to whether it is the right position even with them being a corrupt dictatorship is an understandable stance. Pretending the only moral option is to give them the money, as malc essentially implied by insisting we must be in the wrong, is another thing.
What a bunch of shysters this country has running it, thieving people's money now.
No, this is stopping the shysters running Venezuela from thieving under the noses of the population.
If they are democratically elected like our shysters who are robbing us blind , they should set the same standards for others.
They aren't democratically elected. That's the whole point, malc.
Who elected them then, just because they beat the yanks puppet does not mean much. Think we should be investigating our own lots democracy and money laundering rather than pinching more from other people.
You've not heard of corrupt elections?
Yeah, on no less than 5 occasions at US elections, the winner of the popular vote among Americans was prevented from taking office by the corrupt and outdated Electoral Kindergarten!
Happened to Attlee and Labour in 1951 and Heath and the Tories in February 1974 here too and Scheer and the Canadian Conservatives in Canada last year and Bill English and the New Zealand Nationals in 2017 and Sinn Fein in Ireland this year.
In every case the winner of the popular vote did not form the government
The 2017 New Zealand election was decided on "one man, one vote", that man being Winston Peters.
The Nationals regretting being so principled now and refusing to get into a dutch auction for his support, Ardern has had the best pandemic of any leader and looks impossible to beat this year.
IIRC Winston Peters has been the Wild Card in more that one NZ government's deck.
Re: Venezuela, believe there is a significant difference between Chavez & his successor.
Chavez made many mistakes,by the boatload. Yet one thing stands out - despite his excesses, he did more for the mass of the people of his nation, than ANYONE had ever done or really tried to do. Including his hero Bolivar.
Reminds me of Huey Long. Who also used questionable method (to put it most mildly) but was the FIRST governor of Louisiana who actually did something - anything - for the average person.
Years ago knew an old fellow who had been a boy in Bogalusa LA. Went with his daddy to a rally by the Kingfish, where he (Huey not daddy) jumped on a stump and harangued the crowd in typical style.
"Son," said daddy, "you remember that man. 'Cause he's the only damn one that ever did a damn thing for folks like us."
SO Chavez was NOT all bad. But Maduro? He's like the bums who took over Huey's operation when the Kingfish was gone. And ran it straight to the penitentiary.
Now Huey Long had more than a touch of larceny in his soul. Yet he was NOT just a crook, or even fundamentally crooked. He just believed that his ends justified his means. Think same was true of Hugo Chavez.
That's how i read them too. Problem is that Maduro's opponents are not great either.
have you read "All the King's Men" - very lightly fictionalised version of Huey Long, and a a very atmospheric read.
What a bunch of shysters this country has running it, thieving people's money now.
This comment is about the most ignorant ever posted on PB - and that's saying something.
It's 'I'm a rebel standing up to the state' posturing running into inconvenient facts about Venezuela, and a little sad really.
As a rule, banks should give people their money if asked. It sets a bad precedent if they don't.
Yep, but the judgement stated that the person requesting didn't represent the legitimate government of Venezuela.
Yes. A question which is highly political, and will be very inconsistent across the globe as to which awful people we recognise and which we do not. But that's why even awful regimes usually play nice enough in international relations so that they don't get treated this way by others, or have enough allies that others dare not do so. Plenty of awful regimes would be at no risk of such an action, so that Venezuela is is entirely down to them.
Re: Venezuela, believe there is a significant difference between Chavez & his successor.
Chavez made many mistakes,by the boatload. Yet one thing stands out - despite his excesses, he did more for the mass of the people of his nation, than ANYONE had ever done or really tried to do. Including his hero Bolivar.
Reminds me of Huey Long. Who also used questionable method (to put it most mildly) but was the FIRST governor of Louisiana who actually did something - anything - for the average person.
Years ago knew an old fellow who had been a boy in Bogalusa LA. Went with his daddy to a rally by the Kingfish, where he (Huey not daddy) jumped on a stump and harangued the crowd in typical style.
"Son," said daddy, "you remember that man. 'Cause he's the only damn one that ever did a damn thing for folks like us."
SO Chavez was NOT all bad. But Maduro? He's like the bums who took over Huey's operation when the Kingfish was gone. And ran it straight to the penitentiary.
Now Huey Long had more than a touch of larceny in his soul. Yet he was NOT just a crook, or even fundamentally crooked. He just believed that his ends justified his means. Think same was true of Hugo Chavez.
The end being embezzling over $2 billion for himself and his family, while his other associates netted in the region of $98 billion?
What Chavez did for the poor was entirely incidental. He needed them to think he cared for them so he could hang on to the two things he *actually* cared about - power, and money.
Always best to NOT try defending the indefensible.
Chavez can be defended, to some degree and at least in part. Maduro? Not so much.
No no, you don't get it - the British state is behind it, ergo it is bad.
I don't get it, truly. As you say it is not hard to distinguish between what is happening there now with what happened under Chavez, even from those who would not love Chavez. And I find it hard to believe it is a matter of high minded principle as I'm not even sure what principle is being defended.
Re: Venezuela, believe there is a significant difference between Chavez & his successor.
Chavez made many mistakes,by the boatload. Yet one thing stands out - despite his excesses, he did more for the mass of the people of his nation, than ANYONE had ever done or really tried to do. Including his hero Bolivar.
Reminds me of Huey Long. Who also used questionable method (to put it most mildly) but was the FIRST governor of Louisiana who actually did something - anything - for the average person.
Years ago knew an old fellow who had been a boy in Bogalusa LA. Went with his daddy to a rally by the Kingfish, where he (Huey not daddy) jumped on a stump and harangued the crowd in typical style.
"Son," said daddy, "you remember that man. 'Cause he's the only damn one that ever did a damn thing for folks like us."
SO Chavez was NOT all bad. But Maduro? He's like the bums who took over Huey's operation when the Kingfish was gone. And ran it straight to the penitentiary.
Now Huey Long had more than a touch of larceny in his soul. Yet he was NOT just a crook, or even fundamentally crooked. He just believed that his ends justified his means. Think same was true of Hugo Chavez.
That's how i read them too. Problem is that Maduro's opponents are not great either.
have you read "All the King's Men" - very lightly fictionalised version of Huey Long, and a a very atmospheric read.
Howdy, Nick! Yes, ATKM is a true American classic.
IF you have the chance, check out T. Harry Williams' magisterial biography "Huey Long" which is well-written and chock-ful of details culled from a slew of interviews with observers & participants in both pro- and anti-Long camps.
Back in my misspent youth, I was supposed to be taking a class at Louisiana State University in Basic Education 101 or somesuch. But it was so damn boring I stopped going - and instead went across the hall to hear T. Harry (that's what he was called by everyone at LSU) lecture on the Civil War. Got an F in the class I was enrolled in - but NEVER regretted playing hooky so I could hear what T. Harry had to say.
I missed this. Sweden is now accepting that they got it WRONG
***
Sweden's prime minister has ordered an inquiry into the country's decision not to impose a coronavirus lockdown after the country suffered thousands more deaths than its closest neighbours.
"We have thousands of dead," Swedish prime minister Stefan Lofven said at a press conference on Wednesday, while admitting that the country's handling had exposed Sweden's "shortcomings," The Times of London reported.
"Now the question is how Sweden should change, not if."
I missed this. Sweden is now accepting that they got it WRONG
***
Sweden's prime minister has ordered an inquiry into the country's decision not to impose a coronavirus lockdown after the country suffered thousands more deaths than its closest neighbours.
"We have thousands of dead," Swedish prime minister Stefan Lofven said at a press conference on Wednesday, while admitting that the country's handling had exposed Sweden's "shortcomings," The Times of London reported.
"Now the question is how Sweden should change, not if."
Always best to NOT try defending the indefensible.
Chavez can be defended, to some degree and at least in part. Maduro? Not so much.
No no, you don't get it - the British state is behind it, ergo it is bad.
I don't get it, truly. As you say it is not hard to distinguish between what is happening there now with what happened under Chavez, even from those who would not love Chavez. And I find it hard to believe it is a matter of high minded principle as I'm not even sure what principle is being defended.
If a Maduro needs a billion in a hurry, he could ask Chavez’s daughter for some of the money back. Or he could tell Daniela Cabello that the millions she spends every year in Paris should be spent on the people her father stole it from.
He is not the rightful ruler of Venezuela. Heck, he’s almost given up pretending. He’s a typical third rate mafia boss who is out to line his own pockets. That’s almost certainly the only reason he wanted this gold back - so he could steal it for himself. Good on the High Court for saying no.
1) we won’t know who was ‘right’ or ‘wrong’ for at least two years. Only then will we have something resembling all the data in. Admittedly, at the moment there is one country that stands out as having coped really remarkably well, and that is Vietnam, and others - e.g. New Zealand, Thailand - who through a mixture of care and luck have done better than passably. But there are many other countries - e.g. Iran - whom we can be pretty confident are lying, and others - Ecuador - where such chaos reigns that a full picture is difficult to get.
2) Whether it was ‘right’ or ‘wrong’ from an epidemiological point of view, in one way it has failed. Avoiding lockdown was meant to minimise the economic damage. However, this is going to be a planet wide economic catastrophe. That will affect anyone whether they locked down or not, so locking down earlier and saving lives was therefore the correct response.
That second point said, it’s easy to be wise with hindsight. I don’t think anyone expected a pandemic that such aggressive measures were in place to deal with would rage for as long as it has. So any economic contraction could have been expected to be temporary.
What a bunch of shysters this country has running it, thieving people's money now.
No, this is stopping the shysters running Venezuela from thieving under the noses of the population.
If they are democratically elected like our shysters who are robbing us blind , they should set the same standards for others.
They aren't democratically elected. That's the whole point, malc.
Who elected them then, just because they beat the yanks puppet does not mean much. Think we should be investigating our own lots democracy and money laundering rather than pinching more from other people.
You've not heard of corrupt elections?
Yeah, on no less than 5 occasions at US elections, the winner of the popular vote among Americans was prevented from taking office by the corrupt and outdated Electoral Kindergarten!
Which five elections were those?
2016 2000 1888 1876 1824 - marginal case, I suppose.
There's a decent set of data in now. You can rank countries from "do nothing" (Brazil, or bits of the USA) via Sweden (not quite a lockdown), UK (just about a lockdown), France/Italy/Spain (strong lockdown) to China (weld the doors shut). The harder the lockdown, the quicker you come off the peak.
Whether that's desirable is another matter. The original theory of the Swedish model was that there's no cure or vaccine coming, we might as well stoically get on with most of us getting the virus. Whilst it might still come to that, that has an air of last resort, not first response.
It certainly undermines TSE's bald assertion that the Swedes were definitely WRONG
All we can say is: we don't know yet, and maybe never will
I made this point recently: we might find out one day that a biggest determinant of who did well, and who did badly, is something as simple as obesity. That would explain East Asian success, especially in Vietnam
1) we won’t know who was ‘right’ or ‘wrong’ for at least two years. Only then will we have something resembling all the data in. Admittedly, at the moment there is one country that stands out as having coped really remarkably well, and that is Vietnam, and others - e.g. New Zealand, Thailand - who through a mixture of care and luck have done better than passably. But there are many other countries - e.g. Iran - whom we can be pretty confident are lying, and others - Ecuador - where such chaos reigns that a full picture is difficult to get.
2) Whether it was ‘right’ or ‘wrong’ from an epidemiological point of view, in one way it has failed. Avoiding lockdown was meant to minimise the economic damage. However, this is going to be a planet wide economic catastrophe. That will affect anyone whether they locked down or not, so locking down earlier and saving lives was therefore the correct response.
That second point said, it’s easy to be wise with hindsight. I don’t think anyone expected a pandemic that such aggressive measures were in place to deal with would rage for as long as it has. So any economic contraction could have been expected to be temporary.
As @SeanG has said look at the mental benefits of not locking down. For older people, for children, for lonely people.
If it was up to the medicos then no one would drive or smoke or mountain climb because it's too dangerous.
1) we won’t know who was ‘right’ or ‘wrong’ for at least two years. Only then will we have something resembling all the data in. Admittedly, at the moment there is one country that stands out as having coped really remarkably well, and that is Vietnam, and others - e.g. New Zealand, Thailand - who through a mixture of care and luck have done better than passably. But there are many other countries - e.g. Iran - whom we can be pretty confident are lying, and others - Ecuador - where such chaos reigns that a full picture is difficult to get.
2) Whether it was ‘right’ or ‘wrong’ from an epidemiological point of view, in one way it has failed. Avoiding lockdown was meant to minimise the economic damage. However, this is going to be a planet wide economic catastrophe. That will affect anyone whether they locked down or not, so locking down earlier and saving lives was therefore the correct response.
That second point said, it’s easy to be wise with hindsight. I don’t think anyone expected a pandemic that such aggressive measures were in place to deal with would rage for as long as it has. So any economic contraction could have been expected to be temporary.
It certainly undermines TSE's bald assertion that the Swedes were definitely WRONG
All we can say is: we don't know yet, and maybe never will
I made this point recently: we might find out one day that a biggest determinant of who did well, and who did badly, is something as simple as obesity. That would explain East Asian success, especially in Vietnam
The Swedes have failed based on their own metrics.
I believe you posted a link about what their PM had said on this very subject.
Sweden's prime minister has ordered an inquiry into the country's decision not to impose a coronavirus lockdown after the country suffered thousands more deaths than its closest neighbours.
"We have thousands of dead," Swedish prime minister Stefan Lofven said at a press conference on Wednesday, while admitting that the country's handling had exposed Sweden's "shortcomings," The Times of London reported.
"Now the question is how Sweden should change, not if."
It certainly undermines TSE's bald assertion that the Swedes were definitely WRONG
All we can say is: we don't know yet, and maybe never will
I made this point recently: we might find out one day that a biggest determinant of who did well, and who did badly, is something as simple as obesity. That would explain East Asian success, especially in Vietnam
The Swedes have failed based on their own metrics.
I believe you posted a link about what their PM had said on this very subject.
Sweden's prime minister has ordered an inquiry into the country's decision not to impose a coronavirus lockdown after the country suffered thousands more deaths than its closest neighbours.
"We have thousands of dead," Swedish prime minister Stefan Lofven said at a press conference on Wednesday, while admitting that the country's handling had exposed Sweden's "shortcomings," The Times of London reported.
"Now the question is how Sweden should change, not if."
Yeah we get it. But what problems haven't they stored up for the future? We have fucked our society and our mental health well-being which will cost how many lives in the months and years ahead.
Sweden (536) is doing slightly better than Italy (576) and slightly worse than France (458) in the table of deaths per million population. (UK currently = 650)
WhatsApp has better cryptography* than almost all alternatives, and certainly better than the crypto snake oil that crooks seem to favour.
If they crook were using Tor, Tails, and maybe something like Matrix and Riot they might still be free.
This isn't even the first cryptophone to go down like this, I recall something similar also being attacked, but I forget the details.
Of course the easiest thing to do is to not be drug dealing scum.
* Cryptography is only a small part of the overall security issues.
I have been reading up on Whatsapp as i couldn't work out why i kept being thrown off the network. That nice Mr Zuckerberg (who owns it along with Facebook) or whatever his name is throws you off the network if the lines get busy. not sure how arbitrary it is, but as soon as I switched to using data instead of wireless, the problem vanished.
It certainly undermines TSE's bald assertion that the Swedes were definitely WRONG
All we can say is: we don't know yet, and maybe never will
I made this point recently: we might find out one day that a biggest determinant of who did well, and who did badly, is something as simple as obesity. That would explain East Asian success, especially in Vietnam
The Swedes have failed based on their own metrics.
I believe you posted a link about what their PM had said on this very subject.
Sweden's prime minister has ordered an inquiry into the country's decision not to impose a coronavirus lockdown after the country suffered thousands more deaths than its closest neighbours.
"We have thousands of dead," Swedish prime minister Stefan Lofven said at a press conference on Wednesday, while admitting that the country's handling had exposed Sweden's "shortcomings," The Times of London reported.
"Now the question is how Sweden should change, not if."
That's a political statement, he's not allowed to be blithe about thousands of dead, so he has to say something like that.
It doesn't mean anything about Sweden's policy being good, bad, or mixed.
It certainly undermines TSE's bald assertion that the Swedes were definitely WRONG
All we can say is: we don't know yet, and maybe never will
I made this point recently: we might find out one day that a biggest determinant of who did well, and who did badly, is something as simple as obesity. That would explain East Asian success, especially in Vietnam
The Swedes have failed based on their own metrics.
I believe you posted a link about what their PM had said on this very subject.
Sweden's prime minister has ordered an inquiry into the country's decision not to impose a coronavirus lockdown after the country suffered thousands more deaths than its closest neighbours.
"We have thousands of dead," Swedish prime minister Stefan Lofven said at a press conference on Wednesday, while admitting that the country's handling had exposed Sweden's "shortcomings," The Times of London reported.
"Now the question is how Sweden should change, not if."
Let’s just accept whatever PMs say as the truth, and not listen to critical journalists you say? Don’t tell Scott
Comments
WHY he'd want to compare his small, ever-shrinking self to his great, gigantic predecessors is a mystery - but then so are MANY aspects of Our Fearless Leader, such as his tax situation.
AND at least you will NOT have your freedom abridged by having to wear a mask!
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8484307/Pictured-Astonishing-mountain-dirty-cash-guns-Fendi-embossed-designer-cocaine.html
***
Sweden's prime minister has ordered an inquiry into the country's decision not to impose a coronavirus lockdown after the country suffered thousands more deaths than its closest neighbours.
"We have thousands of dead," Swedish prime minister Stefan Lofven said at a press conference on Wednesday, while admitting that the country's handling had exposed Sweden's "shortcomings," The Times of London reported.
"Now the question is how Sweden should change, not if."
***
https://www.businessinsider.com/sweden-opens-inquiry-into-coronavirus-strategy-of-no-lockdown-2020-7?r=US&IR=T
For anyone English who doesn’t remember 1966, it was their country’s biggest sporting moment.
JQA won because Henry Clay swung his supporters to him, and then was named Secretary of State (then regarded as a stepping stone to the presidency) when Adams assumed office. This was the "corrupt bargain" denounced by Jackson and his follower, who immediately began campaigning to elect Old Hickory at the next election - which they did.
Which may explain why we both had so many deaths.
Sweden's was a brave attempt to tough out the virus while preserving as much of the economy and normal life as possible. It may not have worked as well as they hoped (though it is too soon to say for sure) but here's one thing: Swedish kids have not missed a day of school, whereas British kids have been locked at home and have lost almost half a year of education, socialising, emotional learning...
The guys knocking doors on houses full of drugs, guns and cash really don’t need to have £27,000 of debt getting a pointless degree though.
https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1279064810987061250?s=19
https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1279064813780557824?s=19
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/donald-trump-ex-wife-claim-he-raped-her-resurfaces-in-new-documentary-a6836151.html
In every case the winner of the popular vote did not form the government
It's warmed over Peronism - class war on the EvilRich, while they are filling their pockets from the till.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=1lTJ9ef7S0c
Centralised security fails again....
The most successful countries of all are those like South Korea which mass tested early and avoided mass Covid deaths and the economic damage of lockdown
It is hard to conceive of a good defence of that, but instinctive anti-authority to our own government shouldn't lead to that stance.
Time and again we've had worries about infection spikes after people enjoying the outside and it hasn't happened - so after the first few times I concluded that the outside is mostly safe.
My memory of my one 4th of July in the US was that most events were outdoors events. The weather is warm, fireworks are necessarily outside, and a Turkey dinner is not the centrepiece as it is for Thanksgiving.
The main worry is a more low-key one. Young people travelling home to spend the weekend with their folks and bringing the infection with them.
You probably want to encourage people to spend as much time outside of the house as possible to reduce the risk of transmission within these temporary households. Turn off the TV broadcasts, put on extra fireworks and hand out free marshmallows for making smores on open fires.
(Though I’d still go for the cricket.)
AND have yez ever heard of RICO?
It is an awful situation for the people of Venezuela, and I am not sure what the morally right position is.
Chavez made many mistakes,by the boatload. Yet one thing stands out - despite his excesses, he did more for the mass of the people of his nation, than ANYONE had ever done or really tried to do. Including his hero Bolivar.
Reminds me of Huey Long. Who also used questionable method (to put it most mildly) but was the FIRST governor of Louisiana who actually did something - anything - for the average person.
Years ago knew an old fellow who had been a boy in Bogalusa LA. Went with his daddy to a rally by the Kingfish, where he (Huey not daddy) jumped on a stump and harangued the crowd in typical style.
"Son," said daddy, "you remember that man. 'Cause he's the only damn one that ever did a damn thing for folks like us."
SO Chavez was NOT all bad. But Maduro? He's like the bums who took over Huey's operation when the Kingfish was gone. And ran it straight to the penitentiary.
Now Huey Long had more than a touch of larceny in his soul. Yet he was NOT just a crook, or even fundamentally crooked. He just believed that his ends justified his means. Think same was true of Hugo Chavez.
We can criticise any action if we leave out the other side conveniently, and its purpose was pretty apparent to boot - instinctual anti government bullcrap. A debate about whether even in the current situation the action not to release is right or not would be a different matter, but spouting off abotu shysters int his country as if there was nothing behind the act was just sad.
The Nationals regretting being so principled now and refusing to get into a dutch auction for his support, Ardern has had the best pandemic of any leader and looks impossible to beat this year.
It was most definately not the right decision for anyone who's family suffered Covid fatalities.
have you read "All the King's Men" - very lightly fictionalised version of Huey Long, and a a very atmospheric read.
Chavez can be defended, to some degree and at least in part. Maduro? Not so much.
What Chavez did for the poor was entirely incidental. He needed them to think he cared for them so he could hang on to the two things he *actually* cared about - power, and money.
He was a truly vile man.
Admittedly, compared to Maduro he was a saint.
I don't get it, truly. As you say it is not hard to distinguish between what is happening there now with what happened under Chavez, even from those who would not love Chavez. And I find it hard to believe it is a matter of high minded principle as I'm not even sure what principle is being defended.
IF you have the chance, check out T. Harry Williams' magisterial biography "Huey Long" which is well-written and chock-ful of details culled from a slew of interviews with observers & participants in both pro- and anti-Long camps.
Back in my misspent youth, I was supposed to be taking a class at Louisiana State University in Basic Education 101 or somesuch. But it was so damn boring I stopped going - and instead went across the hall to hear T. Harry (that's what he was called by everyone at LSU) lecture on the Civil War. Got an F in the class I was enrolled in - but NEVER regretted playing hooky so I could hear what T. Harry had to say.
He is not the rightful ruler of Venezuela. Heck, he’s almost given up pretending. He’s a typical third rate mafia boss who is out to line his own pockets. That’s almost certainly the only reason he wanted this gold back - so he could steal it for himself. Good on the High Court for saying no.
https://twitter.com/JordanSchachtel/status/1279053920996855808?s=20
Löfven could be snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.
1) we won’t know who was ‘right’ or ‘wrong’ for at least two years. Only then will we have something resembling all the data in. Admittedly, at the moment there is one country that stands out as having coped really remarkably well, and that is Vietnam, and others - e.g. New Zealand, Thailand - who through a mixture of care and luck have done better than passably. But there are many other countries - e.g. Iran - whom we can be pretty confident are lying, and others - Ecuador - where such chaos reigns that a full picture is difficult to get.
2) Whether it was ‘right’ or ‘wrong’ from an epidemiological point of view, in one way it has failed. Avoiding lockdown was meant to minimise the economic damage. However, this is going to be a planet wide economic catastrophe. That will affect anyone whether they locked down or not, so locking down earlier and saving lives was therefore the correct response.
That second point said, it’s easy to be wise with hindsight. I don’t think anyone expected a pandemic that such aggressive measures were in place to deal with would rage for as long as it has. So any economic contraction could have been expected to be temporary.
It never actually paid any of it, but that’s a different story.
2000
1888
1876
1824 - marginal case, I suppose.
There's a decent set of data in now. You can rank countries from "do nothing" (Brazil, or bits of the USA) via Sweden (not quite a lockdown), UK (just about a lockdown), France/Italy/Spain (strong lockdown) to China (weld the doors shut). The harder the lockdown, the quicker you come off the peak.
Whether that's desirable is another matter. The original theory of the Swedish model was that there's no cure or vaccine coming, we might as well stoically get on with most of us getting the virus. Whilst it might still come to that, that has an air of last resort, not first response.
The point of a plateau is that it’s flat. So the deaths have been declining, not plateauing.
*Pedant hat OFF*
If they crook were using Tor, Tails, and maybe something like Matrix and Riot they might still be free.
This isn't even the first cryptophone to go down like this, I recall something similar also being attacked, but I forget the details.
Of course the easiest thing to do is to not be drug dealing scum.
* Cryptography is only a small part of the overall security issues.
All we can say is: we don't know yet, and maybe never will
I made this point recently: we might find out one day that a biggest determinant of who did well, and who did badly, is something as simple as obesity. That would explain East Asian success, especially in Vietnam
https://obesity.procon.org/global-obesity-levels/
If it was up to the medicos then no one would drive or smoke or mountain climb because it's too dangerous.
To try to put this to bed...
*Pedant hat OFF*
Aside from that, good points!
I believe you posted a link about what their PM had said on this very subject.
Sweden's prime minister has ordered an inquiry into the country's decision not to impose a coronavirus lockdown after the country suffered thousands more deaths than its closest neighbours.
"We have thousands of dead," Swedish prime minister Stefan Lofven said at a press conference on Wednesday, while admitting that the country's handling had exposed Sweden's "shortcomings," The Times of London reported.
"Now the question is how Sweden should change, not if."
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
It doesn't mean anything about Sweden's policy being good, bad, or mixed.