Interesting header. To the extent Johnson has any principles at all, I think the Liberal Unionist label fits. He has referenced himself as a "Brexity Hezza"
I struggle to place that other more important leader of this government, Cummings, into any political home. Saying he's a "radical" is too easy a catch-all. Basically he's a mess of contradictions.
An interesting read Stodge! Question - if Johnson is a Liberal Unionist why is he doing so much to wreck the Union?
Because the Conservative Party that Cummings has engineered into a UKIP takeover with Johnson substituting for Farage definitely isn't Liberal Unionist. English nationalism, as you can imagine, goes down badly in Scotland and Ireland. I am sure Johnson does see Global Britain in a Brexit world as a meaningful thing and wants to keep the Union.
But he, his government and his party are destroying the Union. There is absolutely no doubt about that.
BBC radio news at midnight tonight said: “…after racist comments by David Starkey”. They didn’t even bother to say “alleged racist comments”.
Allegedly, not alleged. It is (at best) the racist nature of the recorded comments that might be in doubt, not their existence given they are on video, so "allegedly racist" rather than "alleged ... comments". I doubt we'll see yet another Starkey television series on the Tudors.
A linguistic question
Starkey said “so many damn blacks survived”. It certainly indicates he has some pretty antediluvian views. But is the actual *comment* racist?
If not then aren’t you attacking someone for what they believe?
The other contexts when you might say, "why are there still so many damn < something >" are, I think, where the something is negative - so many damn slugs, so many damn midges, so many damn racists, etc.
So the implication from common usage of the word in the sentence is that the continued existence of black people despite slavery is a negative thing - clearly racist.
Yes, clearly racist.
Clearly racist and on camera. No need to use the word alleged or allegedly.
If he hadn't used the word damn it would be a different matter.
I think it would still be clearly racist, though obviously a bit less offensive. Without wanting to get into the argument of whether the slave trade was "genocide", nobody would say "if the nazis committed genocide how come there are so many whites in Europe?"
His genocide arguments were incredibly offensive.
His argument was that genocides don't exist if some of the people survive.
At the same time, I wouldn't personally use the word 'genocide' to describe the slave trade. It's too loaded a term and carries particular meanings that don't fit especially well with the reality of what happened.
'Ethnic cleansing' would have been a much more appropriate phrase, especially given colonial slavery involved the moving or suppression of First Nation peoples.
Then it would be more difficult to sell the idea of a significant number of them coming here being in our national interest. It might still be the right thing to do but Boris seems to regard this as something of a win win. Which is fair enough.
So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
Actually 70% in todays poll say they are not ready to go to a pub yet
The public generally do accept personal responsibility
BBC radio news at midnight tonight said: “…after racist comments by David Starkey”. They didn’t even bother to say “alleged racist comments”.
Allegedly, not alleged. It is (at best) the racist nature of the recorded comments that might be in doubt, not their existence given they are on video, so "allegedly racist" rather than "alleged ... comments". I doubt we'll see yet another Starkey television series on the Tudors.
A linguistic question
Starkey said “so many damn blacks survived”. It certainly indicates he has some pretty antediluvian views. But is the actual *comment* racist?
If not then aren’t you attacking someone for what they believe?
The other contexts when you might say, "why are there still so many damn < something >" are, I think, where the something is negative - so many damn slugs, so many damn midges, so many damn racists, etc.
So the implication from common usage of the word in the sentence is that the continued existence of black people despite slavery is a negative thing - clearly racist.
Yes, clearly racist.
Clearly racist and on camera. No need to use the word alleged or allegedly.
If he hadn't used the word damn it would be a different matter.
I think it would still be clearly racist, though obviously a bit less offensive. Without wanting to get into the argument of whether the slave trade was "genocide", nobody would say "if the nazis committed genocide how come there are so many whites in Europe?"
His genocide arguments were incredibly offensive.
His argument was that genocides don't exist if some of the people survive.
At the same time, I wouldn't personally use the word 'genocide' to describe the slave trade. It's too loaded a term and carries particular meanings that don't fit especially well with the reality of what happened.
'Ethnic cleansing' would have been a much more appropriate phrase, especially given colonial slavery involved the moving or suppression of First Nation peoples.
Practically speaking, is there any difference between genocide and ethnic cleansing?
Edit, I mean in the context such as the slave trade where millions of a particular race are killed. Accept "ethnic cleansing" could mean forced exile, but that doesn't fit the slave trade.
So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
Most pubs are not opening tomorrow
That has the recipe for even greater chaos written all over it. Arriving at the pub on Saturday, only to find it closed, will raise frustration. Onto the next to find it open, but not allowing "the boys" in due to social distancing rules, well they'll just go home a little disappointed, won't they?
Mike, I like it that you called him Johnson here, not Boris. Keep it that way - it's inconsistent to use a self-chosen first name for one politician which implies some form of endearment which is not universally felt!
+1
Yes. I strongly prefer Johnson. I wish more would use it. Not just here on PB but generally. Use of his 1st name (unless in irony) is inappropriate and borderline cringeful.
No matter how many times people tell me its use demonstrates some form of endearment it never stops sounding like a pile of nonsense to me. I think it is really demeaning to suggest that it does in fact. Here, I'll give you an example of why it's nonsense - Boris is an arse, who has been sacked for lying multiple times. Oh heaven forfend, such endearment has been shown by that statement. There's no real implication from using Boris, that's something people are inferring.
His brand is being known as Boris. Fine if people don't want to use it for that reason, or because they want to be consistent or more formal. But I've used both Boris and Johnson and Boris Johnson, and I don't accept this ludicrousness that if people generally refer to him as Boris they should not because it is somehow cuddly or friendly.
Is there any other politician who you routinely refer to by their first name as a matter of course and with no irony?
No, but that's a point about consistency, and that his particular brand being using his first name - it has nothing whatsoever to do with the preposterous and frankly insulting view of the public that it denotes endearment,which was my objection.
You want to argue for consistency or formaility politicians should, as nearly all do, go by their first name (although frankly Sir Keir is not doing too badly in that respect)? Fine. But to get het up about it being endearing or cringy? Screw that, it's saying the public are idiotic monkeys swayed by using what isn't even his actual first name, despite very easy examples of criticising and insulting him whilst still using Boris.
Criticising it on that basis is judging people and presuming what their views of him are based on absolutely nothing.
I didn't say it denotes endearment. What it denotes is familiarity. Which is false. Also very odd for a politician as your answer indicates.
He benefits big time from the phony sense of intimacy which the "Boris" handle imbues. There is no question of that. Don't kid yourself it makes no difference.
It's then up to you whether to collaborate in this or not. But unless you are a strong supporter of him or this government I would suggest that it makes sense not to.
Wasn't Ken Livingstone usually referred to as Ken in his mayoral days? Just Ken to those who were indifferent to him, and Red Ken both to those who loathed him and those who loved him.
A good comparison. "Ken". And he benefited from it as Boris Johnson does.
To be clear, I'm not offering this up as the biggest point in the world - it does not keep me awake at nights - but I do think people who are not supporters of "Boris" should think about whether they want to play along with the branding.
If having considered my point they are unmoved and don't wish to change to "Johnson", fine. Absolutely fine. I won't be editing anybody's posts.
ElectoralCalculus's latest polling average is showing a swing of 4% from LD to Lab since the general election. Whether that's because the LDs are waiting for their new leader to be announced is an interesting question.
It must be nice to be the party whose only function is, by how their votes affects the other parties' results, to decide which of the other parties forms the government that completely ignores them. It is remarkable that anyone would want to spend their lives campaigning for this great purpose.
'tis the way our crooked system works. Other than campaigning to change the system, what else are you supposed to do if you look at Tory and Labour and find them equally abhorrent and incompetent?
Either campaign for another party and convince others to do the same ... Or join one of those two and try and change it from within.
There's nothing magical about Tories and Labour that mean they need to be two main parties. Only reason they are is because most people want to vote for one or the other.
Your comments on this topic are always exceptionally glib, as well as often incorrect. As we saw in 1983, the system protects the two major parties even when a third party runs them close. Such results force people back into choosing between the existing two main parties, and hence there is a vicious circle.
BBC radio news at midnight tonight said: “…after racist comments by David Starkey”. They didn’t even bother to say “alleged racist comments”.
Allegedly, not alleged. It is (at best) the racist nature of the recorded comments that might be in doubt, not their existence given they are on video, so "allegedly racist" rather than "alleged ... comments". I doubt we'll see yet another Starkey television series on the Tudors.
A linguistic question
Starkey said “so many damn blacks survived”. It certainly indicates he has some pretty antediluvian views. But is the actual *comment* racist?
If not then aren’t you attacking someone for what they believe?
The other contexts when you might say, "why are there still so many damn < something >" are, I think, where the something is negative - so many damn slugs, so many damn midges, so many damn racists, etc.
So the implication from common usage of the word in the sentence is that the continued existence of black people despite slavery is a negative thing - clearly racist.
Yes, clearly racist.
Clearly racist and on camera. No need to use the word alleged or allegedly.
If he hadn't used the word damn it would be a different matter.
I think it would still be clearly racist, though obviously a bit less offensive. Without wanting to get into the argument of whether the slave trade was "genocide", nobody would say "if the nazis committed genocide how come there are so many whites in Europe?"
There weren't that many Jews left, though. The Nazis perpetrated a genocide against the Jewish people, not white people.
So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
Most pubs are not opening tomorrow
That has the recipe for even greater chaos written all over it. Arriving at the pub on Saturday, only to find it closed, will raise frustration. Onto the next to find it open, but not allowing "the boys" in due to social distancing rules, well they'll just go home a little disappointed, won't they?
No no. Apparently 70% of people say they aren't ready to go to the pub yet, so the 30% determined to get shitfaced with the boys and make a nuisance of themselves and spread the pox will behave. Obviously.
What are the thoughts on Ash's tweet here? Anti-Semitic?
It does seem like a legitimate question (I've wondered myself what kosher salt was all about, surely there is no pork or shellfish in regular salt). Perhaps just googling it might have been sufficient. But then I am not a Twitter person.
It's not religious salt. It's just a American way of saying natural salt.
Yes, I gradually figured this out. It's one of the less annoying aspects of trying to follow American recipes - not quite as irritating as measuring everything in cups or using bloody Farenheit.
Thought 'kosher' meant genuine, as opposed to 'natural'
BBC radio news at midnight tonight said: “…after racist comments by David Starkey”. They didn’t even bother to say “alleged racist comments”.
Allegedly, not alleged. It is (at best) the racist nature of the recorded comments that might be in doubt, not their existence given they are on video, so "allegedly racist" rather than "alleged ... comments". I doubt we'll see yet another Starkey television series on the Tudors.
A linguistic question
Starkey said “so many damn blacks survived”. It certainly indicates he has some pretty antediluvian views. But is the actual *comment* racist?
If not then aren’t you attacking someone for what they believe?
The other contexts when you might say, "why are there still so many damn < something >" are, I think, where the something is negative - so many damn slugs, so many damn midges, so many damn racists, etc.
So the implication from common usage of the word in the sentence is that the continued existence of black people despite slavery is a negative thing - clearly racist.
Yes, clearly racist.
Clearly racist and on camera. No need to use the word alleged or allegedly.
If he hadn't used the word damn it would be a different matter.
I think it would still be clearly racist, though obviously a bit less offensive. Without wanting to get into the argument of whether the slave trade was "genocide", nobody would say "if the nazis committed genocide how come there are so many whites in Europe?"
His genocide arguments were incredibly offensive.
His argument was that genocides don't exist if some of the people survive.
At the same time, I wouldn't personally use the word 'genocide' to describe the slave trade. It's too loaded a term and carries particular meanings that don't fit especially well with the reality of what happened.
'Ethnic cleansing' would have been a much more appropriate phrase, especially given colonial slavery involved the moving or suppression of First Nation peoples.
Practically speaking, is there any difference between genocide and ethnic cleansing?
Yes. Genocide is the deliberate attempt to wipe out a whole race. Ethnic cleansing is an attempt to empty an area of a particular race, which is more usually by moving them out by force (which also of course generally includes multiple deaths) usually followed by the repopulation of the area with members of a different race.
At its crudest the Holocaust was a genocide, the Sudeten German expulsion was ethnic cleansing.
Edit - I suppose you could say that all genocides are a form of ethnic cleansing, but not all ethnic cleansing meets the threshold for genocide.
So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
Most pubs are not opening tomorrow
And most pub-goers are not going to the pub tomorrow.
So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
Most pubs are not opening tomorrow
That has the recipe for even greater chaos written all over it. Arriving at the pub on Saturday, only to find it closed, will raise frustration. Onto the next to find it open, but not allowing "the boys" in due to social distancing rules, well they'll just go home a little disappointed, won't they?
No no. Apparently 70% of people say they aren't ready to go to the pub yet, so the 30% determined to get shitfaced with the boys and make a nuisance of themselves and spread the pox will behave. Obviously.
Thanks for the update.
Shall we stand the emergency services down to a skeleton staff on Saturday to save some public money. Shame to waste it if it's not needed.
So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
Most pubs are not opening tomorrow
And most pub-goers are not going to the pub tomorrow.
I'm avoiding the pub and the barber for a couple of weeks
So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
Most pubs are not opening tomorrow
That has the recipe for even greater chaos written all over it. Arriving at the pub on Saturday, only to find it closed, will raise frustration. Onto the next to find it open, but not allowing "the boys" in due to social distancing rules, well they'll just go home a little disappointed, won't they?
No no. Apparently 70% of people say they aren't ready to go to the pub yet, so the 30% determined to get shitfaced with the boys and make a nuisance of themselves and spread the pox will behave. Obviously.
Genuine question
Would you seek an extension to lockdown and see even more devastation to jobs and peoples health, and how would you open our economy and when
Thanks for interesting Header but I am unable to detect any coherent ideology driving Boris Johnson.
Going back a bit, if the defining feature of Liberal Unionism was a strong sense of Empire and Imperialism combined with Good Works in favour of the impoverished at home, could Edward Colston be thought of as an early pioneer?
So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
Most pubs are not opening tomorrow
And most pub-goers are not going to the pub tomorrow.
I'm avoiding the pub and the barber for a couple of weeks
So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
Most pubs are not opening tomorrow
And most pub-goers are not going to the pub tomorrow.
For goodness sake! The 70% staying at home are not the ones we need worry about.
If it's going to make so little difference economically, which is your defence of the policy, why are we taking the risk?
Another question, does this mean the government's R calculation has been incorrect all this time as well and it's actually a lot lower?
It also means our death rate is up to 15% (!!) of those known to have the disease. Has anyone heard anything of the antibody tests that were supposed to give us a better idea of how many had actually had it.
Yes, it shows 13% in London, 3% in the SW on the latest figures that I have seen.
I know of a couple of people who were virus antigen positive, but have come up antibody negative, and more than a couple of weeks later. Test inaccuracy? Or do some people not produce antibodies?
13% isn't bad and must reduce the risk of a second wave somewhat. I fear much of the country is probably closer to the SW though. Have you seen any figures for Scotland?
It was PHE figures, so only England. The other regions were between the two. Mostly sub 10%.
If we need antibodies then there is a long way to go with this.
So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
Most pubs are not opening tomorrow
That has the recipe for even greater chaos written all over it. Arriving at the pub on Saturday, only to find it closed, will raise frustration. Onto the next to find it open, but not allowing "the boys" in due to social distancing rules, well they'll just go home a little disappointed, won't they?
I know two of the three pubs in our small town are planning tomorrow. One is very upbeat about it. On the positive side, the Conservative Club hasn't got a garden so will, AIUI, have to remain shut!. Oscar Wilde applies.
So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
Most pubs are not opening tomorrow
And most pub-goers are not going to the pub tomorrow.
For goodness sake! The 70% staying at home are not the ones we need worry about.
If it's going to make so little difference economically, which is your defence of the policy, why are we taking the risk?
Yeah, let's just keep everything shut forever until there is zero risk.
So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
Most pubs are not opening tomorrow
That has the recipe for even greater chaos written all over it. Arriving at the pub on Saturday, only to find it closed, will raise frustration. Onto the next to find it open, but not allowing "the boys" in due to social distancing rules, well they'll just go home a little disappointed, won't they?
No no. Apparently 70% of people say they aren't ready to go to the pub yet, so the 30% determined to get shitfaced with the boys and make a nuisance of themselves and spread the pox will behave. Obviously.
And when it rains all pile into the pub ignoring pleas from the landlord who will have to serve them to avoid a riot, please can you keep these idiots in the uk and not let them come to Spain, there are enough Spanish idiots already, kissing and hugging, rearranging the tables in a bar etc but at least do as they are told eventually if you threaten the Guardia
So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
Most pubs are not opening tomorrow
And most pub-goers are not going to the pub tomorrow.
I'm avoiding the pub and the barber for a couple of weeks
60% in poll say they will not go to a restaurant yet
Again common sense by the public and if these polls are to be believed the return to pubs and restaurants will be much more measured and will see the beginning of the retention of jobs in the leisure industry everyone wants
So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
Most pubs are not opening tomorrow
That has the recipe for even greater chaos written all over it. Arriving at the pub on Saturday, only to find it closed, will raise frustration. Onto the next to find it open, but not allowing "the boys" in due to social distancing rules, well they'll just go home a little disappointed, won't they?
No no. Apparently 70% of people say they aren't ready to go to the pub yet, so the 30% determined to get shitfaced with the boys and make a nuisance of themselves and spread the pox will behave. Obviously.
Genuine question
Would you seek an extension to lockdown and see even more devastation to jobs and peoples health, and how would you open our economy and when
Well BigG. the defenders of the policy are saying, no one is going to the pub anyway, so it will be safe. So in that case, what is the point. It is just a grand gesture.
We can't open schools, but we can open pubs. I am not sure we have our priorities right.
I've had some interesting reactions from people, on a personal level.
One type seems to be upset that that people *aren't* upset about the decision.
Another type is reaching for the "the wrong kind of immigrants" but a bit worried about saying it - HKers are too middle class* and too white** for their taste, basically.
*Apparently everyone in HK is a Tory Banker or something **Chinese=Successful=White seems to be their version of maths.
So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
Most pubs are not opening tomorrow
That has the recipe for even greater chaos written all over it. Arriving at the pub on Saturday, only to find it closed, will raise frustration. Onto the next to find it open, but not allowing "the boys" in due to social distancing rules, well they'll just go home a little disappointed, won't they?
No no. Apparently 70% of people say they aren't ready to go to the pub yet, so the 30% determined to get shitfaced with the boys and make a nuisance of themselves and spread the pox will behave. Obviously.
Genuine question
Would you seek an extension to lockdown and see even more devastation to jobs and peoples health, and how would you open our economy and when
Well BigG. the defenders of the policy are saying, no one is going to the pub anyway, so it will be safe. So in that case, what is the point. It is just a grand gesture.
We can't open schools, but we can open pubs. I am not sure we have our priorities right.
Can't open schools? The government has been banging on about sending kids to school for weeks now.
So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
Most pubs are not opening tomorrow
That has the recipe for even greater chaos written all over it. Arriving at the pub on Saturday, only to find it closed, will raise frustration. Onto the next to find it open, but not allowing "the boys" in due to social distancing rules, well they'll just go home a little disappointed, won't they?
I know two of the three pubs in our small town are planning tomorrow. One is very upbeat about it. On the positive side, the Conservative Club hasn't got a garden so will, AIUI, have to remain shut!. Oscar Wilde applies.
So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
Most pubs are not opening tomorrow
That has the recipe for even greater chaos written all over it. Arriving at the pub on Saturday, only to find it closed, will raise frustration. Onto the next to find it open, but not allowing "the boys" in due to social distancing rules, well they'll just go home a little disappointed, won't they?
No no. Apparently 70% of people say they aren't ready to go to the pub yet, so the 30% determined to get shitfaced with the boys and make a nuisance of themselves and spread the pox will behave. Obviously.
Genuine question
Would you seek an extension to lockdown and see even more devastation to jobs and peoples health, and how would you open our economy and when
The cretinous bumbling wazzock has killed tens of thousands of people by mismanaging this pandemic. Having finally got on top of it and locked us down we started to reduce the numbers. But they are still orders of magnitude above numbers in countries not run by fools. We can't copy them and unlock yet because according to his government's own process we haven't got on top of it. Whats the point of saying "if x then y" back in May and then bin that off and tell people its their patriotic duty to drink when y hasn't happened?
As the Ferrari car crash interview detailed there are a lot of sectors they have kept locked down. So we need to keep locked down a few more bits to squash the virus instead of letting it surge back and do "whack-a-mole". "I'm sorry our actions have killed your father and that our mallet missed that particular mole" is NOT a strategy. You want to see what happens when you unlock too early? 10k new cases a day in Florida. Is that what you want here?
So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
Most pubs are not opening tomorrow
And most pub-goers are not going to the pub tomorrow.
I'm avoiding the pub and the barber for a couple of weeks
I hope you have some hair ties available.
In times gone by I would only go regularly to the pub on a Sunday afternoon. And that's how I feel about returning from lockdown. Anyway, there's a reduced chance of rain on Sunday. Booked in at the barbers on Wednesday.
So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
Most pubs are not opening tomorrow
That has the recipe for even greater chaos written all over it. Arriving at the pub on Saturday, only to find it closed, will raise frustration. Onto the next to find it open, but not allowing "the boys" in due to social distancing rules, well they'll just go home a little disappointed, won't they?
No no. Apparently 70% of people say they aren't ready to go to the pub yet, so the 30% determined to get shitfaced with the boys and make a nuisance of themselves and spread the pox will behave. Obviously.
Genuine question
Would you seek an extension to lockdown and see even more devastation to jobs and peoples health, and how would you open our economy and when
Well BigG. the defenders of the policy are saying, no one is going to the pub anyway, so it will be safe. So in that case, what is the point. It is just a grand gesture.
We can't open schools, but we can open pubs. I am not sure we have our priorities right.
Can't open schools? The government has been banging on about sending kids to school for weeks now.
BBC radio news at midnight tonight said: “…after racist comments by David Starkey”. They didn’t even bother to say “alleged racist comments”.
Allegedly, not alleged. It is (at best) the racist nature of the recorded comments that might be in doubt, not their existence given they are on video, so "allegedly racist" rather than "alleged ... comments". I doubt we'll see yet another Starkey television series on the Tudors.
A linguistic question
Starkey said “so many damn blacks survived”. It certainly indicates he has some pretty antediluvian views. But is the actual *comment* racist?
If not then aren’t you attacking someone for what they believe?
The other contexts when you might say, "why are there still so many damn < something >" are, I think, where the something is negative - so many damn slugs, so many damn midges, so many damn racists, etc.
So the implication from common usage of the word in the sentence is that the continued existence of black people despite slavery is a negative thing - clearly racist.
Yes, clearly racist.
Clearly racist and on camera. No need to use the word alleged or allegedly.
If he hadn't used the word damn it would be a different matter.
I think it would still be clearly racist, though obviously a bit less offensive. Without wanting to get into the argument of whether the slave trade was "genocide", nobody would say "if the nazis committed genocide how come there are so many whites in Europe?"
There weren't that many Jews left, though. The Nazis perpetrated a genocide against the Jewish people, not white people.
Which makes my point for me. I guess Starkey can easily imagine there is a difference between one kind of European and another, so one group of Europeans being killed is easily seen as genocide, but seems unable to imagine any differences between all black Africans. According to his logic there has never been any genocide anywhere in Africa because there are so many blacks still living in Africa. "There was no genocide in Rwanda because there are so many blacks in Africa." It's stupid, offensive and racist.
BBC radio news at midnight tonight said: “…after racist comments by David Starkey”. They didn’t even bother to say “alleged racist comments”.
Allegedly, not alleged. It is (at best) the racist nature of the recorded comments that might be in doubt, not their existence given they are on video, so "allegedly racist" rather than "alleged ... comments". I doubt we'll see yet another Starkey television series on the Tudors.
A linguistic question
Starkey said “so many damn blacks survived”. It certainly indicates he has some pretty antediluvian views. But is the actual *comment* racist?
If not then aren’t you attacking someone for what they believe?
The other contexts when you might say, "why are there still so many damn < something >" are, I think, where the something is negative - so many damn slugs, so many damn midges, so many damn racists, etc.
So the implication from common usage of the word in the sentence is that the continued existence of black people despite slavery is a negative thing - clearly racist.
Yes, clearly racist.
Clearly racist and on camera. No need to use the word alleged or allegedly.
If he hadn't used the word damn it would be a different matter.
Agreed. He was utterly damned by the "damn". Language is a tell and this was that in spades. He sounded disappointed that the point he was making - that slavery was not a genocide of blacks - was true.
BBC radio news at midnight tonight said: “…after racist comments by David Starkey”. They didn’t even bother to say “alleged racist comments”.
Allegedly, not alleged. It is (at best) the racist nature of the recorded comments that might be in doubt, not their existence given they are on video, so "allegedly racist" rather than "alleged ... comments". I doubt we'll see yet another Starkey television series on the Tudors.
A linguistic question
Starkey said “so many damn blacks survived”. It certainly indicates he has some pretty antediluvian views. But is the actual *comment* racist?
If not then aren’t you attacking someone for what they believe?
The other contexts when you might say, "why are there still so many damn < something >" are, I think, where the something is negative - so many damn slugs, so many damn midges, so many damn racists, etc.
So the implication from common usage of the word in the sentence is that the continued existence of black people despite slavery is a negative thing - clearly racist.
Yes, clearly racist.
Clearly racist and on camera. No need to use the word alleged or allegedly.
If he hadn't used the word damn it would be a different matter.
I think it would still be clearly racist, though obviously a bit less offensive. Without wanting to get into the argument of whether the slave trade was "genocide", nobody would say "if the nazis committed genocide how come there are so many whites in Europe?"
His genocide arguments were incredibly offensive.
His argument was that genocides don't exist if some of the people survive.
At the same time, I wouldn't personally use the word 'genocide' to describe the slave trade. It's too loaded a term and carries particular meanings that don't fit especially well with the reality of what happened.
'Ethnic cleansing' would have been a much more appropriate phrase, especially given colonial slavery involved the moving or suppression of First Nation peoples.
Practically speaking, is there any difference between genocide and ethnic cleansing?
Yes. Genocide is the deliberate attempt to wipe out a whole race. Ethnic cleansing is an attempt to empty an area of a particular race, which is more usually by moving them out by force (which also of course generally includes multiple deaths) usually followed by the repopulation of the area with members of a different race.
At its crudest the Holocaust was a genocide, the Sudeten German expulsion was ethnic cleansing.
Edit - I suppose you could say that all genocides are a form of ethnic cleansing, but not all ethnic cleansing meets the threshold for genocide.
Have a good morning.
Thanks. I realised my question didn't make my context clear. I accept ethnic cleansing can mean the forced displacement of a race, such as happened in Israel after independence, without the deliberate killing of those people. However, the slave trade like the Nazi Holocaust resulted in the inevitable deaths of millions, the difference being that the explicit elimination of a race through murder in the case of the Holocaust. I accept the intent might be an important distinction. However as I posited yesterday, if you took the gas chamber element away from the Nazi concentration camps, would it no longer be a genocide? The concentration camps were a key part of the German slave economy and as such maybe not so different from the African slave trade?
So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
Most pubs are not opening tomorrow
That has the recipe for even greater chaos written all over it. Arriving at the pub on Saturday, only to find it closed, will raise frustration. Onto the next to find it open, but not allowing "the boys" in due to social distancing rules, well they'll just go home a little disappointed, won't they?
No no. Apparently 70% of people say they aren't ready to go to the pub yet, so the 30% determined to get shitfaced with the boys and make a nuisance of themselves and spread the pox will behave. Obviously.
Genuine question
Would you seek an extension to lockdown and see even more devastation to jobs and peoples health, and how would you open our economy and when
Well BigG. the defenders of the policy are saying, no one is going to the pub anyway, so it will be safe. So in that case, what is the point. It is just a grand gesture.
We can't open schools, but we can open pubs. I am not sure we have our priorities right.
Can't open schools? The government has been banging on about sending kids to school for weeks now.
So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
Most pubs are not opening tomorrow
That has the recipe for even greater chaos written all over it. Arriving at the pub on Saturday, only to find it closed, will raise frustration. Onto the next to find it open, but not allowing "the boys" in due to social distancing rules, well they'll just go home a little disappointed, won't they?
No no. Apparently 70% of people say they aren't ready to go to the pub yet, so the 30% determined to get shitfaced with the boys and make a nuisance of themselves and spread the pox will behave. Obviously.
Genuine question
Would you seek an extension to lockdown and see even more devastation to jobs and peoples health, and how would you open our economy and when
Well BigG. the defenders of the policy are saying, no one is going to the pub anyway, so it will be safe. So in that case, what is the point. It is just a grand gesture.
We can't open schools, but we can open pubs. I am not sure we have our priorities right.
Can't open schools? The government has been banging on about sending kids to school for weeks now.
So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
Most pubs are not opening tomorrow
That has the recipe for even greater chaos written all over it. Arriving at the pub on Saturday, only to find it closed, will raise frustration. Onto the next to find it open, but not allowing "the boys" in due to social distancing rules, well they'll just go home a little disappointed, won't they?
No no. Apparently 70% of people say they aren't ready to go to the pub yet, so the 30% determined to get shitfaced with the boys and make a nuisance of themselves and spread the pox will behave. Obviously.
And when it rains all pile into the pub ignoring pleas from the landlord who will have to serve them to avoid a riot, please can you keep these idiots in the uk and not let them come to Spain, there are enough Spanish idiots already, kissing and hugging, rearranging the tables in a bar etc but at least do as they are told eventually if you threaten the Guardia
Nearly 70% do not intend going abroad this summer and to be honest I would much prefer they spend their money here in the UK and defend jobs in our leisure and holiday industry
BBC radio news at midnight tonight said: “…after racist comments by David Starkey”. They didn’t even bother to say “alleged racist comments”.
Allegedly, not alleged. It is (at best) the racist nature of the recorded comments that might be in doubt, not their existence given they are on video, so "allegedly racist" rather than "alleged ... comments". I doubt we'll see yet another Starkey television series on the Tudors.
A linguistic question
Starkey said “so many damn blacks survived”. It certainly indicates he has some pretty antediluvian views. But is the actual *comment* racist?
If not then aren’t you attacking someone for what they believe?
The other contexts when you might say, "why are there still so many damn < something >" are, I think, where the something is negative - so many damn slugs, so many damn midges, so many damn racists, etc.
So the implication from common usage of the word in the sentence is that the continued existence of black people despite slavery is a negative thing - clearly racist.
Yes, clearly racist.
Clearly racist and on camera. No need to use the word alleged or allegedly.
If he hadn't used the word damn it would be a different matter.
I think it would still be clearly racist, though obviously a bit less offensive. Without wanting to get into the argument of whether the slave trade was "genocide", nobody would say "if the nazis committed genocide how come there are so many whites in Europe?"
There weren't that many Jews left, though. The Nazis perpetrated a genocide against the Jewish people, not white people.
Which makes my point for me. I guess Starkey can easily imagine there is a difference between one kind of European and another, so one group of Europeans being killed is easily seen as genocide, but seems unable to imagine any differences between all black Africans. According to his logic there has never been any genocide anywhere in Africa because there are so many blacks still living in Africa. "There was no genocide in Rwanda because there are so many blacks in Africa." It's stupid, offensive and racist.
I'm not saying it wasn't racist or offensive, it was. My point was that the genocidebof the Holocaust was perpetrated against a specific people. I don't think slavery was targeted at a specific tribe or race, it was fairly random. Though I'm ready to be corrected.
Hitler wanted to eradicate Jews, I'm pretty sure that slave traders just wanted to make money, not eradicate black people.
Can't open schools? The government has been banging on about sending kids to school for weeks now.
In September! The pubs are open tomorrow!
My 9 year old daughter went back to school yesterday. 2 days a week through to the end of term, in a class of no more than 10 is a clean bubble. That is acceptable risk. And when it comes to the new year in September and allegedly everyone goes back neither of mine will be. Unless we have had a miraculous transformation in success against the virus its not safe to send everyone back like that. And the guidance sent to schools is unworkably laughable.
So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
Most pubs are not opening tomorrow
That has the recipe for even greater chaos written all over it. Arriving at the pub on Saturday, only to find it closed, will raise frustration. Onto the next to find it open, but not allowing "the boys" in due to social distancing rules, well they'll just go home a little disappointed, won't they?
No no. Apparently 70% of people say they aren't ready to go to the pub yet, so the 30% determined to get shitfaced with the boys and make a nuisance of themselves and spread the pox will behave. Obviously.
Genuine question
Would you seek an extension to lockdown and see even more devastation to jobs and peoples health, and how would you open our economy and when
The cretinous bumbling wazzock has killed tens of thousands of people by mismanaging this pandemic. Having finally got on top of it and locked us down we started to reduce the numbers. But they are still orders of magnitude above numbers in countries not run by fools. We can't copy them and unlock yet because according to his government's own process we haven't got on top of it. Whats the point of saying "if x then y" back in May and then bin that off and tell people its their patriotic duty to drink when y hasn't happened?
As the Ferrari car crash interview detailed there are a lot of sectors they have kept locked down. So we need to keep locked down a few more bits to squash the virus instead of letting it surge back and do "whack-a-mole". "I'm sorry our actions have killed your father and that our mallet missed that particular mole" is NOT a strategy. You want to see what happens when you unlock too early? 10k new cases a day in Florida. Is that what you want here?
On the 2nd July, number of cases of COVID detected in Germany - 503 On the 2nd July, number of cases of COVID detected in UK - 576
So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
Most pubs are not opening tomorrow
That has the recipe for even greater chaos written all over it. Arriving at the pub on Saturday, only to find it closed, will raise frustration. Onto the next to find it open, but not allowing "the boys" in due to social distancing rules, well they'll just go home a little disappointed, won't they?
No no. Apparently 70% of people say they aren't ready to go to the pub yet, so the 30% determined to get shitfaced with the boys and make a nuisance of themselves and spread the pox will behave. Obviously.
Genuine question
Would you seek an extension to lockdown and see even more devastation to jobs and peoples health, and how would you open our economy and when
Well BigG. the defenders of the policy are saying, no one is going to the pub anyway, so it will be safe. So in that case, what is the point. It is just a grand gesture.
We can't open schools, but we can open pubs. I am not sure we have our priorities right.
Schools are open and have been all along
However, just how long do you think we can keep our economy closed and how many millions of jobs are you willing to lose in the process
So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
Most pubs are not opening tomorrow
And most pub-goers are not going to the pub tomorrow.
For goodness sake! The 70% staying at home are not the ones we need worry about.
If it's going to make so little difference economically, which is your defence of the policy, why are we taking the risk?
Yeah, let's just keep everything shut forever until there is zero risk.
That is a failed argument, on your own terms.
You have said it is safe because hardly anyone will go out, which defeats the economic argument. I am saying those desperate to get to drinking establishments are the very people common sense tells us would those that would be best advised to stay away. A and E will be buzzing on Saturday, so I suppose some economic activity will be generated
So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
Most pubs are not opening tomorrow
That has the recipe for even greater chaos written all over it. Arriving at the pub on Saturday, only to find it closed, will raise frustration. Onto the next to find it open, but not allowing "the boys" in due to social distancing rules, well they'll just go home a little disappointed, won't they?
So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
Most pubs are not opening tomorrow
That has the recipe for even greater chaos written all over it. Arriving at the pub on Saturday, only to find it closed, will raise frustration. Onto the next to find it open, but not allowing "the boys" in due to social distancing rules, well they'll just go home a little disappointed, won't they?
No no. Apparently 70% of people say they aren't ready to go to the pub yet, so the 30% determined to get shitfaced with the boys and make a nuisance of themselves and spread the pox will behave. Obviously.
Genuine question
Would you seek an extension to lockdown and see even more devastation to jobs and peoples health, and how would you open our economy and when
The cretinous bumbling wazzock has killed tens of thousands of people by mismanaging this pandemic. Having finally got on top of it and locked us down we started to reduce the numbers. But they are still orders of magnitude above numbers in countries not run by fools. We can't copy them and unlock yet because according to his government's own process we haven't got on top of it. Whats the point of saying "if x then y" back in May and then bin that off and tell people its their patriotic duty to drink when y hasn't happened?
As the Ferrari car crash interview detailed there are a lot of sectors they have kept locked down. So we need to keep locked down a few more bits to squash the virus instead of letting it surge back and do "whack-a-mole". "I'm sorry our actions have killed your father and that our mallet missed that particular mole" is NOT a strategy. You want to see what happens when you unlock too early? 10k new cases a day in Florida. Is that what you want here?
On the 2nd July, number of cases of COVID detected in Germany - 503 On the 2nd July, number of cases of COVID detected in UK - 576
Nicely written header piece from Stodge. My problem with it is the last few paragraphs and the inference that Johnson is a Liberal Unionist. Johnson is simply a Johnsonist Populist. Anything that might advance his career and ego are order of the day. Cummings is useful for that for now, but that will probably wane, particularly if Johnson's approval ratings drop further. Our Poundshop wannabe Churchill is an empty vessel, and definitely not a Churchill in any way. Johnson will latch onto any idea if it suits his agenda today and then drop it tomorrow.
BBC radio news at midnight tonight said: “…after racist comments by David Starkey”. They didn’t even bother to say “alleged racist comments”.
Allegedly, not alleged. It is (at best) the racist nature of the recorded comments that might be in doubt, not their existence given they are on video, so "allegedly racist" rather than "alleged ... comments". I doubt we'll see yet another Starkey television series on the Tudors.
A linguistic question
Starkey said “so many damn blacks survived”. It certainly indicates he has some pretty antediluvian views. But is the actual *comment* racist?
If not then aren’t you attacking someone for what they believe?
The other contexts when you might say, "why are there still so many damn < something >" are, I think, where the something is negative - so many damn slugs, so many damn midges, so many damn racists, etc.
So the implication from common usage of the word in the sentence is that the continued existence of black people despite slavery is a negative thing - clearly racist.
Yes, clearly racist.
Clearly racist and on camera. No need to use the word alleged or allegedly.
If he hadn't used the word damn it would be a different matter.
I think it would still be clearly racist, though obviously a bit less offensive. Without wanting to get into the argument of whether the slave trade was "genocide", nobody would say "if the nazis committed genocide how come there are so many whites in Europe?"
There weren't that many Jews left, though. The Nazis perpetrated a genocide against the Jewish people, not white people.
Which makes my point for me. I guess Starkey can easily imagine there is a difference between one kind of European and another, so one group of Europeans being killed is easily seen as genocide, but seems unable to imagine any differences between all black Africans. According to his logic there has never been any genocide anywhere in Africa because there are so many blacks still living in Africa. "There was no genocide in Rwanda because there are so many blacks in Africa." It's stupid, offensive and racist.
I'm not saying it wasn't racist or offensive, it was. My point was that the genocidebof the Holocaust was perpetrated against a specific people. I don't think slavery was targeted at a specific tribe or race, it was fairly random. Though I'm ready to be corrected.
Hitler wanted to eradicate Jews, I'm pretty sure that slave traders just wanted to make money, not eradicate black people.
/the closest parallel is probably the Hutu-Tutsi slaughter. But I'm against comparing atrocities and judiciously assessing one as worse than another - the "lesser" one then become unhelpfully trivialised. I'm OK with lumping mass slaughter of different kinds together and saying they're all absolutely horrific.
So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
Most pubs are not opening tomorrow
That has the recipe for even greater chaos written all over it. Arriving at the pub on Saturday, only to find it closed, will raise frustration. Onto the next to find it open, but not allowing "the boys" in due to social distancing rules, well they'll just go home a little disappointed, won't they?
No no. Apparently 70% of people say they aren't ready to go to the pub yet, so the 30% determined to get shitfaced with the boys and make a nuisance of themselves and spread the pox will behave. Obviously.
Genuine question
Would you seek an extension to lockdown and see even more devastation to jobs and peoples health, and how would you open our economy and when
The cretinous bumbling wazzock has killed tens of thousands of people by mismanaging this pandemic. Having finally got on top of it and locked us down we started to reduce the numbers. But they are still orders of magnitude above numbers in countries not run by fools. We can't copy them and unlock yet because according to his government's own process we haven't got on top of it. Whats the point of saying "if x then y" back in May and then bin that off and tell people its their patriotic duty to drink when y hasn't happened?
As the Ferrari car crash interview detailed there are a lot of sectors they have kept locked down. So we need to keep locked down a few more bits to squash the virus instead of letting it surge back and do "whack-a-mole". "I'm sorry our actions have killed your father and that our mallet missed that particular mole" is NOT a strategy. You want to see what happens when you unlock too early? 10k new cases a day in Florida. Is that what you want here?
Not sure that we have orders of magnitude more cases than say France, which on the 2nd July had over 300 new cases (we had about double that). I get you don't like Johnson, but at least keep criticism based on fact.
BBC radio news at midnight tonight said: “…after racist comments by David Starkey”. They didn’t even bother to say “alleged racist comments”.
Allegedly, not alleged. It is (at best) the racist nature of the recorded comments that might be in doubt, not their existence given they are on video, so "allegedly racist" rather than "alleged ... comments". I doubt we'll see yet another Starkey television series on the Tudors.
A linguistic question
Starkey said “so many damn blacks survived”. It certainly indicates he has some pretty antediluvian views. But is the actual *comment* racist?
If not then aren’t you attacking someone for what they believe?
The other contexts when you might say, "why are there still so many damn < something >" are, I think, where the something is negative - so many damn slugs, so many damn midges, so many damn racists, etc.
So the implication from common usage of the word in the sentence is that the continued existence of black people despite slavery is a negative thing - clearly racist.
Yes, clearly racist.
Clearly racist and on camera. No need to use the word alleged or allegedly.
If he hadn't used the word damn it would be a different matter.
I think it would still be clearly racist, though obviously a bit less offensive. Without wanting to get into the argument of whether the slave trade was "genocide", nobody would say "if the nazis committed genocide how come there are so many whites in Europe?"
There weren't that many Jews left, though. The Nazis perpetrated a genocide against the Jewish people, not white people.
Which makes my point for me. I guess Starkey can easily imagine there is a difference between one kind of European and another, so one group of Europeans being killed is easily seen as genocide, but seems unable to imagine any differences between all black Africans. According to his logic there has never been any genocide anywhere in Africa because there are so many blacks still living in Africa. "There was no genocide in Rwanda because there are so many blacks in Africa." It's stupid, offensive and racist.
That's a very good point. So, that PLUS the "damn". God.
So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
Most pubs are not opening tomorrow
And most pub-goers are not going to the pub tomorrow.
For goodness sake! The 70% staying at home are not the ones we need worry about.
If it's going to make so little difference economically, which is your defence of the policy, why are we taking the risk?
Yeah, let's just keep everything shut forever until there is zero risk.
That is a failed argument, on your own terms.
You have said it is safe because hardly anyone will go out, which defeats the economic argument. I am saying those desperate to get to drinking establishments are the very people common sense tells us would those that would be best advised to stay away. A and E will be buzzing on Saturday, so I suppose some economic activity will be generated
Of course there is a balance, but the incidence of the virus is so low that the rewards likely outweigh the risk. If you required that the hospitality sector remain shut until there was no risk, it would probably be another year before they were open.
So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
Most pubs are not opening tomorrow
That has the recipe for even greater chaos written all over it. Arriving at the pub on Saturday, only to find it closed, will raise frustration. Onto the next to find it open, but not allowing "the boys" in due to social distancing rules, well they'll just go home a little disappointed, won't they?
No no. Apparently 70% of people say they aren't ready to go to the pub yet, so the 30% determined to get shitfaced with the boys and make a nuisance of themselves and spread the pox will behave. Obviously.
Genuine question
Would you seek an extension to lockdown and see even more devastation to jobs and peoples health, and how would you open our economy and when
Well BigG. the defenders of the policy are saying, no one is going to the pub anyway, so it will be safe. So in that case, what is the point. It is just a grand gesture.
We can't open schools, but we can open pubs. I am not sure we have our priorities right.
Schools are open and have been all along
However, just how long do you think we can keep our economy closed and how many millions of jobs are you willing to lose in the process
Schools are not open - only in very limited situations (special needs, key workers and some years occasionally - for my children it's 2 hours a week per topic, for years 7-9 there is virtually nothing).
BBC radio news at midnight tonight said: “…after racist comments by David Starkey”. They didn’t even bother to say “alleged racist comments”.
Allegedly, not alleged. It is (at best) the racist nature of the recorded comments that might be in doubt, not their existence given they are on video, so "allegedly racist" rather than "alleged ... comments". I doubt we'll see yet another Starkey television series on the Tudors.
A linguistic question
Starkey said “so many damn blacks survived”. It certainly indicates he has some pretty antediluvian views. But is the actual *comment* racist?
If not then aren’t you attacking someone for what they believe?
The other contexts when you might say, "why are there still so many damn < something >" are, I think, where the something is negative - so many damn slugs, so many damn midges, so many damn racists, etc.
So the implication from common usage of the word in the sentence is that the continued existence of black people despite slavery is a negative thing - clearly racist.
Yes, clearly racist.
Clearly racist and on camera. No need to use the word alleged or allegedly.
If he hadn't used the word damn it would be a different matter.
I think it would still be clearly racist, though obviously a bit less offensive. Without wanting to get into the argument of whether the slave trade was "genocide", nobody would say "if the nazis committed genocide how come there are so many whites in Europe?"
There weren't that many Jews left, though. The Nazis perpetrated a genocide against the Jewish people, not white people.
Which makes my point for me. I guess Starkey can easily imagine there is a difference between one kind of European and another, so one group of Europeans being killed is easily seen as genocide, but seems unable to imagine any differences between all black Africans. According to his logic there has never been any genocide anywhere in Africa because there are so many blacks still living in Africa. "There was no genocide in Rwanda because there are so many blacks in Africa." It's stupid, offensive and racist.
I'm not saying it wasn't racist or offensive, it was. My point was that the genocidebof the Holocaust was perpetrated against a specific people. I don't think slavery was targeted at a specific tribe or race, it was fairly random. Though I'm ready to be corrected.
Hitler wanted to eradicate Jews, I'm pretty sure that slave traders just wanted to make money, not eradicate black people.
/the closest parallel is probably the Hutu-Tutsi slaughter. But I'm against comparing atrocities and judiciously assessing one as worse than another - the "lesser" one then become unhelpfully trivialised. I'm OK with lumping mass slaughter of different kinds together and saying they're all absolutely horrific.
But we do actually class what happened in Rwanda as genocide. People trying to extend that definition to slavery are cheapening the term and by extension making it a less serious charge both historically and for the future should it happen again.
It's like those animal rights weirdos trying to call people eating meat a Holocaust for animals. It isn't, all it does is make them look crazy.
BBC radio news at midnight tonight said: “…after racist comments by David Starkey”. They didn’t even bother to say “alleged racist comments”.
Allegedly, not alleged. It is (at best) the racist nature of the recorded comments that might be in doubt, not their existence given they are on video, so "allegedly racist" rather than "alleged ... comments". I doubt we'll see yet another Starkey television series on the Tudors.
A linguistic question
Starkey said “so many damn blacks survived”. It certainly indicates he has some pretty antediluvian views. But is the actual *comment* racist?
If not then aren’t you attacking someone for what they believe?
The other contexts when you might say, "why are there still so many damn < something >" are, I think, where the something is negative - so many damn slugs, so many damn midges, so many damn racists, etc.
So the implication from common usage of the word in the sentence is that the continued existence of black people despite slavery is a negative thing - clearly racist.
Yes, clearly racist.
Clearly racist and on camera. No need to use the word alleged or allegedly.
If he hadn't used the word damn it would be a different matter.
I think it would still be clearly racist, though obviously a bit less offensive. Without wanting to get into the argument of whether the slave trade was "genocide", nobody would say "if the nazis committed genocide how come there are so many whites in Europe?"
There weren't that many Jews left, though. The Nazis perpetrated a genocide against the Jewish people, not white people.
Which makes my point for me. I guess Starkey can easily imagine there is a difference between one kind of European and another, so one group of Europeans being killed is easily seen as genocide, but seems unable to imagine any differences between all black Africans. According to his logic there has never been any genocide anywhere in Africa because there are so many blacks still living in Africa. "There was no genocide in Rwanda because there are so many blacks in Africa." It's stupid, offensive and racist.
I'm not saying it wasn't racist or offensive, it was. My point was that the genocidebof the Holocaust was perpetrated against a specific people. I don't think slavery was targeted at a specific tribe or race, it was fairly random. Though I'm ready to be corrected.
Hitler wanted to eradicate Jews, I'm pretty sure that slave traders just wanted to make money, not eradicate black people.
Hmm it's probably complicated, but I always understood that certain ethnic groups were targeted in Africa (perhaps more by the African partners of the European slave traders), maybe someone has some expertise?
But I'm not really arguing about whether genocide happened or not. I'm saying Starkey's racist logic is that for a genocide to have happened, the entire black population of Africa would have had to be targeted.
So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
Most pubs are not opening tomorrow
That has the recipe for even greater chaos written all over it. Arriving at the pub on Saturday, only to find it closed, will raise frustration. Onto the next to find it open, but not allowing "the boys" in due to social distancing rules, well they'll just go home a little disappointed, won't they?
No no. Apparently 70% of people say they aren't ready to go to the pub yet, so the 30% determined to get shitfaced with the boys and make a nuisance of themselves and spread the pox will behave. Obviously.
Genuine question
Would you seek an extension to lockdown and see even more devastation to jobs and peoples health, and how would you open our economy and when
The cretinous bumbling wazzock has killed tens of thousands of people by mismanaging this pandemic. Having finally got on top of it and locked us down we started to reduce the numbers. But they are still orders of magnitude above numbers in countries not run by fools. We can't copy them and unlock yet because according to his government's own process we haven't got on top of it. Whats the point of saying "if x then y" back in May and then bin that off and tell people its their patriotic duty to drink when y hasn't happened?
As the Ferrari car crash interview detailed there are a lot of sectors they have kept locked down. So we need to keep locked down a few more bits to squash the virus instead of letting it surge back and do "whack-a-mole". "I'm sorry our actions have killed your father and that our mallet missed that particular mole" is NOT a strategy. You want to see what happens when you unlock too early? 10k new cases a day in Florida. Is that what you want here?
Ooo, "cretinous bumbling wazzock". That is most certainly the edgier cousin of Ian's "great self regarding pudding in Downing St" from yesterday.
So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
Most pubs are not opening tomorrow
And most pub-goers are not going to the pub tomorrow.
For goodness sake! The 70% staying at home are not the ones we need worry about.
If it's going to make so little difference economically, which is your defence of the policy, why are we taking the risk?
Yeah, let's just keep everything shut forever until there is zero risk.
That is a failed argument, on your own terms.
You have said it is safe because hardly anyone will go out, which defeats the economic argument. I am saying those desperate to get to drinking establishments are the very people common sense tells us would those that would be best advised to stay away. A and E will be buzzing on Saturday, so I suppose some economic activity will be generated
Of course there is a balance, but the incidence of the virus is so low that the rewards likely outweigh the risk. If you required that the hospitality sector remain shut until there was no risk, it would probably be another year before they were open.
Yes it is a balance of risk, and yes we need to return to normal as best we can. However, the wizard wheeze gesture of opening the pubs on (American) Independence Day, which falls, this year on a Saturday is foolhardy in the extreme.
So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
Most pubs are not opening tomorrow
That has the recipe for even greater chaos written all over it. Arriving at the pub on Saturday, only to find it closed, will raise frustration. Onto the next to find it open, but not allowing "the boys" in due to social distancing rules, well they'll just go home a little disappointed, won't they?
I know two of the three pubs in our small town are planning tomorrow. One is very upbeat about it. On the positive side, the Conservative Club hasn't got a garden so will, AIUI, have to remain shut!. Oscar Wilde applies.
Of course the economy is a problem. Thousands of jobs going every day in retail and hospitality and this feels like only the start of it. We shouldn't be here as we should have broken the back of the virus like other have. But we are where we are. So what choices do we have?
1. Fuck it. Reopen everything like Trumpy loons have done in America. And in a few weeks watch us be like Florida. We'll not save the economy by killing people en-masse 2. A whack-a-mole reopening. Get out there and spend your sodding money. If you die then you should be supporting the government for all the things they have done. How to stay safe is up to you. 3. A tightly controlled reopening. You MUST wear a mask in buildings and on public transport with large summary fines for not doing so.
That the bumbling fool is doing 2 is no surprise. When the only detail he knows is what he made up and gets sacked for we knew this would be a problem. And 6 months from now the next financial calamity where no deal is a "very good option". That we can't possibly build recruit program and implement a physical border in 6 months is just detail he doen't understand. When the ports and trade and logistics immediately grind to a halt blaming the EU won't get him very far.
So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
Most pubs are not opening tomorrow
And most pub-goers are not going to the pub tomorrow.
For goodness sake! The 70% staying at home are not the ones we need worry about.
If it's going to make so little difference economically, which is your defence of the policy, why are we taking the risk?
Yeah, let's just keep everything shut forever until there is zero risk.
That is a failed argument, on your own terms.
You have said it is safe because hardly anyone will go out, which defeats the economic argument. I am saying those desperate to get to drinking establishments are the very people common sense tells us would those that would be best advised to stay away. A and E will be buzzing on Saturday, so I suppose some economic activity will be generated
Of course there is a balance, but the incidence of the virus is so low that the rewards likely outweigh the risk. If you required that the hospitality sector remain shut until there was no risk, it would probably be another year before they were open.
Yes it is a balance of risk, and yes we need to return to normal as best we can. However, the wizard wheeze gesture of opening the pubs on (American) Independence Day, which falls, this year on a Saturday is foolhardy in the extreme.
Why? If people want to go there are more hours in the day for them to do it. Otherwise it'd be a mad rush starting at 5pm.
BBC radio news at midnight tonight said: “…after racist comments by David Starkey”. They didn’t even bother to say “alleged racist comments”.
Allegedly, not alleged. It is (at best) the racist nature of the recorded comments that might be in doubt, not their existence given they are on video, so "allegedly racist" rather than "alleged ... comments". I doubt we'll see yet another Starkey television series on the Tudors.
A linguistic question
Starkey said “so many damn blacks survived”. It certainly indicates he has some pretty antediluvian views. But is the actual *comment* racist?
If not then aren’t you attacking someone for what they believe?
The other contexts when you might say, "why are there still so many damn < something >" are, I think, where the something is negative - so many damn slugs, so many damn midges, so many damn racists, etc.
So the implication from common usage of the word in the sentence is that the continued existence of black people despite slavery is a negative thing - clearly racist.
Yes, clearly racist.
Clearly racist and on camera. No need to use the word alleged or allegedly.
If he hadn't used the word damn it would be a different matter.
I think it would still be clearly racist, though obviously a bit less offensive. Without wanting to get into the argument of whether the slave trade was "genocide", nobody would say "if the nazis committed genocide how come there are so many whites in Europe?"
His genocide arguments were incredibly offensive.
His argument was that genocides don't exist if some of the people survive.
At the same time, I wouldn't personally use the word 'genocide' to describe the slave trade. It's too loaded a term and carries particular meanings that don't fit especially well with the reality of what happened.
'Ethnic cleansing' would have been a much more appropriate phrase, especially given colonial slavery involved the moving or suppression of First Nation peoples.
Practically speaking, is there any difference between genocide and ethnic cleansing?
Yes. Genocide is the deliberate attempt to wipe out a whole race. Ethnic cleansing is an attempt to empty an area of a particular race, which is more usually by moving them out by force (which also of course generally includes multiple deaths) usually followed by the repopulation of the area with members of a different race.
At its crudest the Holocaust was a genocide, the Sudeten German expulsion was ethnic cleansing.
Edit - I suppose you could say that all genocides are a form of ethnic cleansing, but not all ethnic cleansing meets the threshold for genocide.
Have a good morning.
Thanks. I realised my question didn't make my context clear. I accept ethnic cleansing can mean the forced displacement of a race, such as happened in Israel after independence, without the deliberate killing of those people. However, the slave trade like the Nazi Holocaust resulted in the inevitable deaths of millions, the difference being that the explicit elimination of a race through murder in the case of the Holocaust. I accept the intent might be an important distinction. However as I posited yesterday, if you took the gas chamber element away from the Nazi concentration camps, would it no longer be a genocide? The concentration camps were a key part of the German slave economy and as such maybe not so different from the African slave trade?
Thinking further about this, the problem might be a lack of a suitable criminal term for the mass killing of a population that doesn't require an explicit intention to eliminate that population. If genocide is reserved for intended elimination of a race, the new term would include genocide and also the industrial and planned killing of populations.
BBC radio news at midnight tonight said: “…after racist comments by David Starkey”. They didn’t even bother to say “alleged racist comments”.
Allegedly, not alleged. It is (at best) the racist nature of the recorded comments that might be in doubt, not their existence given they are on video, so "allegedly racist" rather than "alleged ... comments". I doubt we'll see yet another Starkey television series on the Tudors.
A linguistic question
Starkey said “so many damn blacks survived”. It certainly indicates he has some pretty antediluvian views. But is the actual *comment* racist?
If not then aren’t you attacking someone for what they believe?
The other contexts when you might say, "why are there still so many damn < something >" are, I think, where the something is negative - so many damn slugs, so many damn midges, so many damn racists, etc.
So the implication from common usage of the word in the sentence is that the continued existence of black people despite slavery is a negative thing - clearly racist.
Yes, clearly racist.
Clearly racist and on camera. No need to use the word alleged or allegedly.
If he hadn't used the word damn it would be a different matter.
I think it would still be clearly racist, though obviously a bit less offensive. Without wanting to get into the argument of whether the slave trade was "genocide", nobody would say "if the nazis committed genocide how come there are so many whites in Europe?"
His genocide arguments were incredibly offensive.
His argument was that genocides don't exist if some of the people survive.
At the same time, I wouldn't personally use the word 'genocide' to describe the slave trade. It's too loaded a term and carries particular meanings that don't fit especially well with the reality of what happened.
'Ethnic cleansing' would have been a much more appropriate phrase, especially given colonial slavery involved the moving or suppression of First Nation peoples.
Practically speaking, is there any difference between genocide and ethnic cleansing?
Yes. Genocide is the deliberate attempt to wipe out a whole race. Ethnic cleansing is an attempt to empty an area of a particular race, which is more usually by moving them out by force (which also of course generally includes multiple deaths) usually followed by the repopulation of the area with members of a different race.
At its crudest the Holocaust was a genocide, the Sudeten German expulsion was ethnic cleansing.
Edit - I suppose you could say that all genocides are a form of ethnic cleansing, but not all ethnic cleansing meets the threshold for genocide.
Have a good morning.
Thanks. I realised my question didn't make my context clear. I accept ethnic cleansing can mean the forced displacement of a race, such as happened in Israel after independence, without the deliberate killing of those people. However, the slave trade like the Nazi Holocaust resulted in the inevitable deaths of millions, the difference being that the explicit elimination of a race through murder in the case of the Holocaust. I accept the intent might be an important distinction. However as I posited yesterday, if you took the gas chamber element away from the Nazi concentration camps, would it no longer be a genocide? The concentration camps were a key part of the German slave economy and as such maybe not so different from the African slave trade?
Checking in briefly:
Yes, it would still be a genocide. Because the gas chambers were not actually quite as important in the Holocaust as memory has made them. It is estimated that around half of the Jews who were killed were actually shot, many of them during Operation Barbarossa (without being sent into ghettos first) which is when systematic killing began. (Figures are here: https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/documenting-numbers-of-victims-of-the-holocaust-and-nazi-persecution ) Very large numbers also of course died of torture, starvation, disease and exposure.
While the ghettos and later, the concentration camps and death camps were economically important to the Germans, from 1941 they were progressively less so.
You could argue perhaps that prior to 1941-42 the Holocaust was primarily ethnic cleansing (which led to the ghettoes and other suggestions e.g. the 'Madagascar solution') but from thereon in it was by any argument a genocide, and the gas chambers were actually a fairly late development in that.
Allowing for all the evils of the slave trade, the Holocaust was on a whole different level. As was the Armenian genocide, Rwanda, the Volga Germans, the Uighers, even the Janjaweed in Sudan or the Vendee massacre in the 1790s. Because ultimately, extermination was not the aim of the slave trade.
So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
Most pubs are not opening tomorrow
That has the recipe for even greater chaos written all over it. Arriving at the pub on Saturday, only to find it closed, will raise frustration. Onto the next to find it open, but not allowing "the boys" in due to social distancing rules, well they'll just go home a little disappointed, won't they?
No no. Apparently 70% of people say they aren't ready to go to the pub yet, so the 30% determined to get shitfaced with the boys and make a nuisance of themselves and spread the pox will behave. Obviously.
Genuine question
Would you seek an extension to lockdown and see even more devastation to jobs and peoples health, and how would you open our economy and when
Well BigG. the defenders of the policy are saying, no one is going to the pub anyway, so it will be safe. So in that case, what is the point. It is just a grand gesture.
We can't open schools, but we can open pubs. I am not sure we have our priorities right.
Schools are open and have been all along
However, just how long do you think we can keep our economy closed and how many millions of jobs are you willing to lose in the process
Schools are not open - only in very limited situations (special needs, key workers and some years occasionally - for my children it's 2 hours a week per topic, for years 7-9 there is virtually nothing).
My son who is head of IT at his school has been open throughout and has extended tuition on line to all it's pupils
So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
Most pubs are not opening tomorrow
That has the recipe for even greater chaos written all over it. Arriving at the pub on Saturday, only to find it closed, will raise frustration. Onto the next to find it open, but not allowing "the boys" in due to social distancing rules, well they'll just go home a little disappointed, won't they?
No no. Apparently 70% of people say they aren't ready to go to the pub yet, so the 30% determined to get shitfaced with the boys and make a nuisance of themselves and spread the pox will behave. Obviously.
Genuine question
Would you seek an extension to lockdown and see even more devastation to jobs and peoples health, and how would you open our economy and when
Well BigG. the defenders of the policy are saying, no one is going to the pub anyway, so it will be safe. So in that case, what is the point. It is just a grand gesture.
We can't open schools, but we can open pubs. I am not sure we have our priorities right.
Can't open schools? The government has been banging on about sending kids to school for weeks now.
That might be first for PB. Justifying Johnson with an article that rebutts a falsehood by Johnson.
As the article states, schools are not open in anything like the form promised by Johnson some weeks ago. Let's hope the same applies to drinking establishments.
Ooo, "cretinous bumbling wazzock". That is most certainly the edgier cousin of Ian's "great self regarding pudding in Downing St" from yesterday.
All great anyway. All an improvement on "Boris".
I refer to him as "Shagger". Remember that his second sacking was because he was shagging Wyatt behind his wife's back, knocked her up twice then lied to the PM about it. This time was shagging Symonds behind the same wife's back - having shagged at least one other in the meantime with yet another pregnancy. He's clearly a man of trust and honour. And detail - like how many children he has fathered.
So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
Most pubs are not opening tomorrow
That has the recipe for even greater chaos written all over it. Arriving at the pub on Saturday, only to find it closed, will raise frustration. Onto the next to find it open, but not allowing "the boys" in due to social distancing rules, well they'll just go home a little disappointed, won't they?
No no. Apparently 70% of people say they aren't ready to go to the pub yet, so the 30% determined to get shitfaced with the boys and make a nuisance of themselves and spread the pox will behave. Obviously.
Genuine question
Would you seek an extension to lockdown and see even more devastation to jobs and peoples health, and how would you open our economy and when
Well BigG. the defenders of the policy are saying, no one is going to the pub anyway, so it will be safe. So in that case, what is the point. It is just a grand gesture.
We can't open schools, but we can open pubs. I am not sure we have our priorities right.
Can't open schools? The government has been banging on about sending kids to school for weeks now.
That might be first for PB. Justifying Johnson with an article that rebutts a falsehood by Johnson.
As the article states, schools are not open in anything like the form promised by Johnson some weeks ago. Let's hope the same applies to drinking establishments.
So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
Most pubs are not opening tomorrow
That has the recipe for even greater chaos written all over it. Arriving at the pub on Saturday, only to find it closed, will raise frustration. Onto the next to find it open, but not allowing "the boys" in due to social distancing rules, well they'll just go home a little disappointed, won't they?
No no. Apparently 70% of people say they aren't ready to go to the pub yet, so the 30% determined to get shitfaced with the boys and make a nuisance of themselves and spread the pox will behave. Obviously.
Genuine question
Would you seek an extension to lockdown and see even more devastation to jobs and peoples health, and how would you open our economy and when
Well BigG. the defenders of the policy are saying, no one is going to the pub anyway, so it will be safe. So in that case, what is the point. It is just a grand gesture.
We can't open schools, but we can open pubs. I am not sure we have our priorities right.
Schools are open and have been all along
However, just how long do you think we can keep our economy closed and how many millions of jobs are you willing to lose in the process
Schools are not open - only in very limited situations (special needs, key workers and some years occasionally - for my children it's 2 hours a week per topic, for years 7-9 there is virtually nothing).
Many teachers, especially in primary schools have been working longer hours over the past few weeks. I part because they have to chase up individual children on their iPads etc.
Another question, does this mean the government's R calculation has been incorrect all this time as well and it's actually a lot lower?
It also means our death rate is up to 15% (!!) of those known to have the disease. Has anyone heard anything of the antibody tests that were supposed to give us a better idea of how many had actually had it.
Yes, it shows 13% in London, 3% in the SW on the latest figures that I have seen.
I know of a couple of people who were virus antigen positive, but have come up antibody negative, and more than a couple of weeks later. Test inaccuracy? Or do some people not produce antibodies?
The latter seems to be a strong possibility.
Intrafamilial Exposure to SARS-CoV-2 Induces Cellular Immune Response without Seroconversion https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.06.21.20132449v1 Several individuals belonging to households with an index COVID-19 patient, reported symptoms of COVID-19 but discrepant serology results. Methods. Here we investigated the humoral and cellular immune responses against SARS-CoV-2 in seven families, including nine index patients and eight contacts, who had evidence of serological discordances within the households. Ten unexposed healthy donors were enrolled as controls. Results. All index patients recovered from a mild COVID-19. They all developed anti-SARS-CoV-2 antibodies and a significant T cell response detectable up to 69 days after symptom onset. Six of the eight contacts reported COVID-19 symptoms within 1 to 7 days after the index patients but all were SARS-CoV-2 seronegative. Six out of eight contacts developed a SARS-CoV-2-specific T cell response against structural and/or accessory proteins that lasts up to 80 days post symptom onset suggesting a past SARS-CoV-2 infection. Conclusion. Exposure to SARS-CoV-2 can induce virus-specific T cell responses without seroconversion. T cell responses may be more sensitive indicators of SARS-Co-V-2 exposure than antibodies. Our results indicate that epidemiological data relying only on the detection of SARS-CoV-2 antibodies may lead to a substantial underestimation of prior exposure to the virus...
BBC radio news at midnight tonight said: “…after racist comments by David Starkey”. They didn’t even bother to say “alleged racist comments”.
Allegedly, not alleged. It is (at best) the racist nature of the recorded comments that might be in doubt, not their existence given they are on video, so "allegedly racist" rather than "alleged ... comments". I doubt we'll see yet another Starkey television series on the Tudors.
A linguistic question
Starkey said “so many damn blacks survived”. It certainly indicates he has some pretty antediluvian views. But is the actual *comment* racist?
If not then aren’t you attacking someone for what they believe?
The other contexts when you might say, "why are there still so many damn < something >" are, I think, where the something is negative - so many damn slugs, so many damn midges, so many damn racists, etc.
So the implication from common usage of the word in the sentence is that the continued existence of black people despite slavery is a negative thing - clearly racist.
Yes, clearly racist.
Clearly racist and on camera. No need to use the word alleged or allegedly.
If he hadn't used the word damn it would be a different matter.
I think it would still be clearly racist, though obviously a bit less offensive. Without wanting to get into the argument of whether the slave trade was "genocide", nobody would say "if the nazis committed genocide how come there are so many whites in Europe?"
There weren't that many Jews left, though. The Nazis perpetrated a genocide against the Jewish people, not white people.
Which makes my point for me. I guess Starkey can easily imagine there is a difference between one kind of European and another, so one group of Europeans being killed is easily seen as genocide, but seems unable to imagine any differences between all black Africans. According to his logic there has never been any genocide anywhere in Africa because there are so many blacks still living in Africa. "There was no genocide in Rwanda because there are so many blacks in Africa." It's stupid, offensive and racist.
I'm not saying it wasn't racist or offensive, it was. My point was that the genocidebof the Holocaust was perpetrated against a specific people. I don't think slavery was targeted at a specific tribe or race, it was fairly random. Though I'm ready to be corrected.
Hitler wanted to eradicate Jews, I'm pretty sure that slave traders just wanted to make money, not eradicate black people.
Hmm it's probably complicated, but I always understood that certain ethnic groups were targeted in Africa (perhaps more by the African partners of the European slave traders), maybe someone has some expertise?
But I'm not really arguing about whether genocide happened or not. I'm saying Starkey's racist logic is that for a genocide to have happened, the entire black population of Africa would have had to be targeted.
As I said, I don't know if there was specific targeting, at least by the slave traders it doesn't seem like it, they probably just bought the slaves available.
Starkey's logic seems to stem from that, slavery was randomly targeted against black people in general so it couldn't have been genocide. I think that's probably correct but as I said, I actually don't know if a specific tribe wasn't targeted for being slaves or killed because they refused to be slaves.
So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
Most pubs are not opening tomorrow
And most pub-goers are not going to the pub tomorrow.
For goodness sake! The 70% staying at home are not the ones we need worry about.
If it's going to make so little difference economically, which is your defence of the policy, why are we taking the risk?
Yeah, let's just keep everything shut forever until there is zero risk.
That is a failed argument, on your own terms.
You have said it is safe because hardly anyone will go out, which defeats the economic argument. I am saying those desperate to get to drinking establishments are the very people common sense tells us would those that would be best advised to stay away. A and E will be buzzing on Saturday, so I suppose some economic activity will be generated
Of course there is a balance, but the incidence of the virus is so low that the rewards likely outweigh the risk. If you required that the hospitality sector remain shut until there was no risk, it would probably be another year before they were open.
Yes it is a balance of risk, and yes we need to return to normal as best we can. However, the wizard wheeze gesture of opening the pubs on (American) Independence Day, which falls, this year on a Saturday is foolhardy in the extreme.
Why? If people want to go there are more hours in the day for them to do it. Otherwise it'd be a mad rush starting at 5pm.
Let's see how A and E copes on Saturday. Let's hope you are right and I am wrong.
So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
Most pubs are not opening tomorrow
And most pub-goers are not going to the pub tomorrow.
For goodness sake! The 70% staying at home are not the ones we need worry about.
If it's going to make so little difference economically, which is your defence of the policy, why are we taking the risk?
Yeah, let's just keep everything shut forever until there is zero risk.
That is a failed argument, on your own terms.
You have said it is safe because hardly anyone will go out, which defeats the economic argument. I am saying those desperate to get to drinking establishments are the very people common sense tells us would those that would be best advised to stay away. A and E will be buzzing on Saturday, so I suppose some economic activity will be generated
Of course there is a balance, but the incidence of the virus is so low that the rewards likely outweigh the risk. If you required that the hospitality sector remain shut until there was no risk, it would probably be another year before they were open.
Yes it is a balance of risk, and yes we need to return to normal as best we can. However, the wizard wheeze gesture of opening the pubs on (American) Independence Day, which falls, this year on a Saturday is foolhardy in the extreme.
Why? If people want to go there are more hours in the day for them to do it. Otherwise it'd be a mad rush starting at 5pm.
Let's see how A and E copes on Saturday. Let's hope you are right and I am wrong.
They are probably better prepared than ever. No one is doing anything so admissions are way down!
Products from Japan or South Korea would be stamped “Made in Britain”, under Boris Johnson’s plan to save the domestic car industry after Brexit.
The proposal is an attempt to prevent punishing tariffs driving away the likes of Nissan and Toyota, but will sound “ridiculous” to voters promised huge benefits from leaving the EU, one trade expert said.
It also means the UK is effectively asking the EU for the benefits of a customs union, a new analysis says – despite the prime minister insisting the UK is leaving the trading arrangement.
So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
Most pubs are not opening tomorrow
That has the recipe for even greater chaos written all over it. Arriving at the pub on Saturday, only to find it closed, will raise frustration. Onto the next to find it open, but not allowing "the boys" in due to social distancing rules, well they'll just go home a little disappointed, won't they?
No no. Apparently 70% of people say they aren't ready to go to the pub yet, so the 30% determined to get shitfaced with the boys and make a nuisance of themselves and spread the pox will behave. Obviously.
Genuine question
Would you seek an extension to lockdown and see even more devastation to jobs and peoples health, and how would you open our economy and when
The cretinous bumbling wazzock has killed tens of thousands of people by mismanaging this pandemic. Having finally got on top of it and locked us down we started to reduce the numbers. But they are still orders of magnitude above numbers in countries not run by fools. We can't copy them and unlock yet because according to his government's own process we haven't got on top of it. Whats the point of saying "if x then y" back in May and then bin that off and tell people its their patriotic duty to drink when y hasn't happened?
As the Ferrari car crash interview detailed there are a lot of sectors they have kept locked down. So we need to keep locked down a few more bits to squash the virus instead of letting it surge back and do "whack-a-mole". "I'm sorry our actions have killed your father and that our mallet missed that particular mole" is NOT a strategy. You want to see what happens when you unlock too early? 10k new cases a day in Florida. Is that what you want here?
On the 2nd July, number of cases of COVID detected in Germany - 503 On the 2nd July, number of cases of COVID detected in UK - 576
More tests in the UK, too.
But more tests isn't useful if you're not testing the right people.
Think about it this way (all these numbers from the ft tracker; so smoothed and hopefully consistent).
The UK is averaging a bit more than 100 deaths a day this week. 3 weeks ago, the UK was identifying about 1500 cases a day. So about 7 % of the identified cases 3 weeks ago led to death.
Germany is averaging about 10 deaths a day this week. 3 weeks ago, Germany was averaging about 300 identified cases a day. So about 3 % of the identified cases 3 weeks ago led to death.
The simplest explanation I can see is that neither the UK nor Germany is picking up all the cases, even now. Makes sense, since we know there are lots of asymptomatic infections. That's why the tracing bit of test'n'trace is so important, to join the dots across the asymptomatic carriers. For whatever reason, the UK is doing rather worse at this than other countries.
If that's right, the obsession with headline number of tests is probably now doing more harm than good. Fewer tests, more intelligently targeted and with a faster turnaround seem like a better tactic.
So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
Most pubs are not opening tomorrow
And most pub-goers are not going to the pub tomorrow.
I'm avoiding the pub and the barber for a couple of weeks
60% in poll say they will not go to a restaurant yet
Again common sense by the public and if these polls are to be believed the return to pubs and restaurants will be much more measured and will see the beginning of the retention of jobs in the leisure industry everyone wants
The initial re-opening of shops showed a surge in the first couple of days, followed usage falling back to a low number, then building very gradually.
I would not be surprised if the same happens for pubs, restaurants.
So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
Most pubs are not opening tomorrow
And most pub-goers are not going to the pub tomorrow.
For goodness sake! The 70% staying at home are not the ones we need worry about.
If it's going to make so little difference economically, which is your defence of the policy, why are we taking the risk?
Yeah, let's just keep everything shut forever until there is zero risk.
That is a failed argument, on your own terms.
You have said it is safe because hardly anyone will go out, which defeats the economic argument. I am saying those desperate to get to drinking establishments are the very people common sense tells us would those that would be best advised to stay away. A and E will be buzzing on Saturday, so I suppose some economic activity will be generated
Of course there is a balance, but the incidence of the virus is so low that the rewards likely outweigh the risk. If you required that the hospitality sector remain shut until there was no risk, it would probably be another year before they were open.
Yes it is a balance of risk, and yes we need to return to normal as best we can. However, the wizard wheeze gesture of opening the pubs on (American) Independence Day, which falls, this year on a Saturday is foolhardy in the extreme.
Why? If people want to go there are more hours in the day for them to do it. Otherwise it'd be a mad rush starting at 5pm.
Let's see how A and E copes on Saturday. Let's hope you are right and I am wrong.
They are probably better prepared than ever. No one is doing anything so admissions are way down!
I'm up for resuming pub, very much so. But I won't be doing it while you have to book. That is not "pub" for me.
So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
Most pubs are not opening tomorrow
And most pub-goers are not going to the pub tomorrow.
For goodness sake! The 70% staying at home are not the ones we need worry about.
If it's going to make so little difference economically, which is your defence of the policy, why are we taking the risk?
Yeah, let's just keep everything shut forever until there is zero risk.
That is a failed argument, on your own terms.
You have said it is safe because hardly anyone will go out, which defeats the economic argument. I am saying those desperate to get to drinking establishments are the very people common sense tells us would those that would be best advised to stay away. A and E will be buzzing on Saturday, so I suppose some economic activity will be generated
Of course there is a balance, but the incidence of the virus is so low that the rewards likely outweigh the risk. If you required that the hospitality sector remain shut until there was no risk, it would probably be another year before they were open.
Yes it is a balance of risk, and yes we need to return to normal as best we can. However, the wizard wheeze gesture of opening the pubs on (American) Independence Day, which falls, this year on a Saturday is foolhardy in the extreme.
Why? If people want to go there are more hours in the day for them to do it. Otherwise it'd be a mad rush starting at 5pm.
Let's see how A and E copes on Saturday. Let's hope you are right and I am wrong.
BBC radio news at midnight tonight said: “…after racist comments by David Starkey”. They didn’t even bother to say “alleged racist comments”.
Allegedly, not alleged. It is (at best) the racist nature of the recorded comments that might be in doubt, not their existence given they are on video, so "allegedly racist" rather than "alleged ... comments". I doubt we'll see yet another Starkey television series on the Tudors.
A linguistic question
Starkey said “so many damn blacks survived”. It certainly indicates he has some pretty antediluvian views. But is the actual *comment* racist?
If not then aren’t you attacking someone for what they believe?
The other contexts when you might say, "why are there still so many damn < something >" are, I think, where the something is negative - so many damn slugs, so many damn midges, so many damn racists, etc.
So the implication from common usage of the word in the sentence is that the continued existence of black people despite slavery is a negative thing - clearly racist.
Yes, clearly racist.
Clearly racist and on camera. No need to use the word alleged or allegedly.
If he hadn't used the word damn it would be a different matter.
I think it would still be clearly racist, though obviously a bit less offensive. Without wanting to get into the argument of whether the slave trade was "genocide", nobody would say "if the nazis committed genocide how come there are so many whites in Europe?"
His genocide arguments were incredibly offensive.
His argument was that genocides don't exist if some of the people survive.
At the same time, I wouldn't personally use the word 'genocide' to describe the slave trade. It's too loaded a term and carries particular meanings that don't fit especially well with the reality of what happened.
'Ethnic cleansing' would have been a much more appropriate phrase, especially given colonial slavery involved the moving or suppression of First Nation peoples.
Practically speaking, is there any difference between genocide and ethnic cleansing?
Yes. Genocide is the deliberate attempt to wipe out a whole race. Ethnic cleansing is an attempt to empty an area of a particular race, which is more usually by moving them out by force (which also of course generally includes multiple deaths) usually followed by the repopulation of the area with members of a different race.
At its crudest the Holocaust was a genocide, the Sudeten German expulsion was ethnic cleansing.
Edit - I suppose you could say that all genocides are a form of ethnic cleansing, but not all ethnic cleansing meets the threshold for genocide.
Have a good morning.
Thanks. I realised my question didn't make my context clear. I accept ethnic cleansing can mean the forced displacement of a race, such as happened in Israel after independence, without the deliberate killing of those people. However, the slave trade like the Nazi Holocaust resulted in the inevitable deaths of millions, the difference being that the explicit elimination of a race through murder in the case of the Holocaust. I accept the intent might be an important distinction. However as I posited yesterday, if you took the gas chamber element away from the Nazi concentration camps, would it no longer be a genocide? The concentration camps were a key part of the German slave economy and as such maybe not so different from the African slave trade?
Checking in briefly:
Yes, it would still be a genocide. Because the gas chambers were not actually quite as important in the Holocaust as memory has made them. It is estimated that around half of the Jews who were killed were actually shot, many of them during Operation Barbarossa (without being sent into ghettos first) which is when systematic killing began. (Figures are here: https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/documenting-numbers-of-victims-of-the-holocaust-and-nazi-persecution ) Very large numbers also of course died of torture, starvation, disease and exposure.
While the ghettos and later, the concentration camps and death camps were economically important to the Germans, from 1941 they were progressively less so.
You could argue perhaps that prior to 1941-42 the Holocaust was primarily ethnic cleansing (which led to the ghettoes and other suggestions e.g. the 'Madagascar solution') but from thereon in it was by any argument a genocide, and the gas chambers were actually a fairly late development in that.
Allowing for all the evils of the slave trade, the Holocaust was on a whole different level. As was the Armenian genocide, Rwanda, the Volga Germans, the Uighers, even the Janjaweed in Sudan or the Vendee massacre in the 1790s. Because ultimately, extermination was not the aim of the slave trade.
Thanks. I should add I am OK with "ethnic cleansing", although I don't think it's a legal term in international law. There is a lot of it about and it should be recognised as such. But separating intent from effect isn't always easy and, gut feel, there are mass acts that need to be called out for the sickening horrors they are. The Nazi Holocaust is definitely one. The African slave trade is without doubt another.
So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
Most pubs are not opening tomorrow
And most pub-goers are not going to the pub tomorrow.
For goodness sake! The 70% staying at home are not the ones we need worry about.
If it's going to make so little difference economically, which is your defence of the policy, why are we taking the risk?
Yeah, let's just keep everything shut forever until there is zero risk.
That is a failed argument, on your own terms.
You have said it is safe because hardly anyone will go out, which defeats the economic argument. I am saying those desperate to get to drinking establishments are the very people common sense tells us would those that would be best advised to stay away. A and E will be buzzing on Saturday, so I suppose some economic activity will be generated
Of course there is a balance, but the incidence of the virus is so low that the rewards likely outweigh the risk. If you required that the hospitality sector remain shut until there was no risk, it would probably be another year before they were open.
Yes it is a balance of risk, and yes we need to return to normal as best we can. However, the wizard wheeze gesture of opening the pubs on (American) Independence Day, which falls, this year on a Saturday is foolhardy in the extreme.
Why? If people want to go there are more hours in the day for them to do it. Otherwise it'd be a mad rush starting at 5pm.
Let's see how A and E copes on Saturday. Let's hope you are right and I am wrong.
They are probably better prepared than ever. No one is doing anything so admissions are way down!
Let's assume that is correct. It is still a poor justification for encouraging idiots to get rat-arsed.
So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
Most pubs are not opening tomorrow
And most pub-goers are not going to the pub tomorrow.
I'm avoiding the pub and the barber for a couple of weeks
60% in poll say they will not go to a restaurant yet
Again common sense by the public and if these polls are to be believed the return to pubs and restaurants will be much more measured and will see the beginning of the retention of jobs in the leisure industry everyone wants
The initial re-opening of shops showed a surge in the first couple of days, followed usage falling back to a low number, then building very gradually.
I would not be surprised if the same happens for pubs, restaurants.
So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
Most pubs are not opening tomorrow
And most pub-goers are not going to the pub tomorrow.
For goodness sake! The 70% staying at home are not the ones we need worry about.
If it's going to make so little difference economically, which is your defence of the policy, why are we taking the risk?
Yeah, let's just keep everything shut forever until there is zero risk.
That is a failed argument, on your own terms.
You have said it is safe because hardly anyone will go out, which defeats the economic argument. I am saying those desperate to get to drinking establishments are the very people common sense tells us would those that would be best advised to stay away. A and E will be buzzing on Saturday, so I suppose some economic activity will be generated
Of course there is a balance, but the incidence of the virus is so low that the rewards likely outweigh the risk. If you required that the hospitality sector remain shut until there was no risk, it would probably be another year before they were open.
Yes it is a balance of risk, and yes we need to return to normal as best we can. However, the wizard wheeze gesture of opening the pubs on (American) Independence Day, which falls, this year on a Saturday is foolhardy in the extreme.
Why? If people want to go there are more hours in the day for them to do it. Otherwise it'd be a mad rush starting at 5pm.
Let's see how A and E copes on Saturday. Let's hope you are right and I am wrong.
You have to remember about70% of the population would not go to a pub anyway So the poll is meaningless unless they are filtered out first. The same about restaurants I bet they would go to mc donalds but wouldn’t go to a chef and brewer which they wouldn’t go to anyway. If going wear mask unless eating and drinking, sanitize hands and no kissing greetings. Do as the proprietor asks and keep your distance.
So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
Most pubs are not opening tomorrow
That has the recipe for even greater chaos written all over it. Arriving at the pub on Saturday, only to find it closed, will raise frustration. Onto the next to find it open, but not allowing "the boys" in due to social distancing rules, well they'll just go home a little disappointed, won't they?
No no. Apparently 70% of people say they aren't ready to go to the pub yet, so the 30% determined to get shitfaced with the boys and make a nuisance of themselves and spread the pox will behave. Obviously.
Genuine question
Would you seek an extension to lockdown and see even more devastation to jobs and peoples health, and how would you open our economy and when
The cretinous bumbling wazzock has killed tens of thousands of people by mismanaging this pandemic. Having finally got on top of it and locked us down we started to reduce the numbers. But they are still orders of magnitude above numbers in countries not run by fools. We can't copy them and unlock yet because according to his government's own process we haven't got on top of it. Whats the point of saying "if x then y" back in May and then bin that off and tell people its their patriotic duty to drink when y hasn't happened?
As the Ferrari car crash interview detailed there are a lot of sectors they have kept locked down. So we need to keep locked down a few more bits to squash the virus instead of letting it surge back and do "whack-a-mole". "I'm sorry our actions have killed your father and that our mallet missed that particular mole" is NOT a strategy. You want to see what happens when you unlock too early? 10k new cases a day in Florida. Is that what you want here?
On the 2nd July, number of cases of COVID detected in Germany - 503 On the 2nd July, number of cases of COVID detected in UK - 576
7 day moving average for new cases on 2nd July UK: 792 Germany 419
Comments
I struggle to place that other more important leader of this government, Cummings, into any political home. Saying he's a "radical" is too easy a catch-all. Basically he's a mess of contradictions. Because the Conservative Party that Cummings has engineered into a UKIP takeover with Johnson substituting for Farage definitely isn't Liberal Unionist. English nationalism, as you can imagine, goes down badly in Scotland and Ireland. I am sure Johnson does see Global Britain in a Brexit world as a meaningful thing and wants to keep the Union.
But he, his government and his party are destroying the Union. There is absolutely no doubt about that.
Not quotable or catchy and doesn't even mean all that much.
It looks like it will be dull, cool, breezy and with a significant chance of rain.
'Ethnic cleansing' would have been a much more appropriate phrase, especially given colonial slavery involved the moving or suppression of First Nation peoples.
The public generally do accept personal responsibility
https://twitter.com/darrengrimes_/status/1278735739648344064
Edit, I mean in the context such as the slave trade where millions of a particular race are killed. Accept "ethnic cleansing" could mean forced exile, but that doesn't fit the slave trade.
To be clear, I'm not offering this up as the biggest point in the world - it does not keep me awake at nights - but I do think people who are not supporters of "Boris" should think about whether they want to play along with the branding.
If having considered my point they are unmoved and don't wish to change to "Johnson", fine. Absolutely fine. I won't be editing anybody's posts.
At its crudest the Holocaust was a genocide, the Sudeten German expulsion was ethnic cleansing.
Edit - I suppose you could say that all genocides are a form of ethnic cleansing, but not all ethnic cleansing meets the threshold for genocide.
Have a good morning.
Shall we stand the emergency services down to a skeleton staff on Saturday to save some public money. Shame to waste it if it's not needed.
Would you seek an extension to lockdown and see even more devastation to jobs and peoples health, and how would you open our economy and when
Thanks for interesting Header but I am unable to detect any coherent ideology driving Boris Johnson.
Going back a bit, if the defining feature of Liberal Unionism was a strong sense of Empire and Imperialism combined with Good Works in favour of the impoverished at home, could Edward Colston be thought of as an early pioneer?
If it's going to make so little difference economically, which is your defence of the policy, why are we taking the risk?
If we need antibodies then there is a long way to go with this.
Oscar Wilde applies.
Again common sense by the public and if these polls are to be believed the return to pubs and restaurants will be much more measured and will see the beginning of the retention of jobs in the leisure industry everyone wants
We can't open schools, but we can open pubs. I am not sure we have our priorities right.
One type seems to be upset that that people *aren't* upset about the decision.
Another type is reaching for the "the wrong kind of immigrants" but a bit worried about saying it - HKers are too middle class* and too white** for their taste, basically.
*Apparently everyone in HK is a Tory Banker or something
**Chinese=Successful=White seems to be their version of maths.
As the Ferrari car crash interview detailed there are a lot of sectors they have kept locked down. So we need to keep locked down a few more bits to squash the virus instead of letting it surge back and do "whack-a-mole". "I'm sorry our actions have killed your father and that our mallet missed that particular mole" is NOT a strategy. You want to see what happens when you unlock too early? 10k new cases a day in Florida. Is that what you want here?
Booked in at the barbers on Wednesday.
https://fullfact.org/education/returning-students/
Hitler wanted to eradicate Jews, I'm pretty sure that slave traders just wanted to make money, not eradicate black people.
On the 2nd July, number of cases of COVID detected in UK - 576
However, just how long do you think we can keep our economy closed and how many millions of jobs are you willing to lose in the process
You have said it is safe because hardly anyone will go out, which defeats the economic argument. I am saying those desperate to get to drinking establishments are the very people common sense tells us would those that would be best advised to stay away. A and E will be buzzing on Saturday, so I suppose some economic activity will be generated
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=ghostbusters+end+of+the+world&ru=/videos/search?q=ghostbusters+end+of+the+world&FORM=HDRSC3&view=detail&mid=6E4CE4F88103EEF85ADE6E4CE4F88103EEF85ADE&rvsmid=BD7ECB58926AEADAA51DBD7ECB58926AEADAA51D&FORM=VDQVAP
CANCEL.
There are multiple, localised spikes in both countries.
It's like those animal rights weirdos trying to call people eating meat a Holocaust for animals. It isn't, all it does is make them look crazy.
But I'm not really arguing about whether genocide happened or not. I'm saying Starkey's racist logic is that for a genocide to have happened, the entire black population of Africa would have had to be targeted.
All great anyway. All an improvement on "Boris".
1. Fuck it. Reopen everything like Trumpy loons have done in America. And in a few weeks watch us be like Florida. We'll not save the economy by killing people en-masse
2. A whack-a-mole reopening. Get out there and spend your sodding money. If you die then you should be supporting the government for all the things they have done. How to stay safe is up to you.
3. A tightly controlled reopening. You MUST wear a mask in buildings and on public transport with large summary fines for not doing so.
That the bumbling fool is doing 2 is no surprise. When the only detail he knows is what he made up and gets sacked for we knew this would be a problem. And 6 months from now the next financial calamity where no deal is a "very good option". That we can't possibly build recruit program and implement a physical border in 6 months is just detail he doen't understand. When the ports and trade and logistics immediately grind to a halt blaming the EU won't get him very far.
Yes, it would still be a genocide. Because the gas chambers were not actually quite as important in the Holocaust as memory has made them. It is estimated that around half of the Jews who were killed were actually shot, many of them during Operation Barbarossa (without being sent into ghettos first) which is when systematic killing began. (Figures are here: https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/documenting-numbers-of-victims-of-the-holocaust-and-nazi-persecution ) Very large numbers also of course died of torture, starvation, disease and exposure.
While the ghettos and later, the concentration camps and death camps were economically important to the Germans, from 1941 they were progressively less so.
You could argue perhaps that prior to 1941-42 the Holocaust was primarily ethnic cleansing (which led to the ghettoes and other suggestions e.g. the 'Madagascar solution') but from thereon in it was by any argument a genocide, and the gas chambers were actually a fairly late development in that.
Allowing for all the evils of the slave trade, the Holocaust was on a whole different level. As was the Armenian genocide, Rwanda, the Volga Germans, the Uighers, even the Janjaweed in Sudan or the Vendee massacre in the 1790s. Because ultimately, extermination was not the aim of the slave trade.
As the article states, schools are not open in anything like the form promised by Johnson some weeks ago. Let's hope the same applies to drinking establishments.
Intrafamilial Exposure to SARS-CoV-2 Induces Cellular Immune Response without Seroconversion
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.06.21.20132449v1
Several individuals belonging to households with an index COVID-19 patient, reported symptoms of COVID-19 but discrepant serology results. Methods. Here we investigated the humoral and cellular immune responses against SARS-CoV-2 in seven families, including nine index patients and eight contacts, who had evidence of serological discordances within the households. Ten unexposed healthy donors were enrolled as controls. Results. All index patients recovered from a mild COVID-19. They all developed anti-SARS-CoV-2 antibodies and a significant T cell response detectable up to 69 days after symptom onset. Six of the eight contacts reported COVID-19 symptoms within 1 to 7 days after the index patients but all were SARS-CoV-2 seronegative. Six out of eight contacts developed a SARS-CoV-2-specific T cell response against structural and/or accessory proteins that lasts up to 80 days post symptom onset suggesting a past SARS-CoV-2 infection. Conclusion. Exposure to SARS-CoV-2 can induce virus-specific T cell responses without seroconversion. T cell responses may be more sensitive indicators of SARS-Co-V-2 exposure than antibodies. Our results indicate that epidemiological data relying only on the detection of SARS-CoV-2 antibodies may lead to a substantial underestimation of prior exposure to the virus...
Starkey's logic seems to stem from that, slavery was randomly targeted against black people in general so it couldn't have been genocide. I think that's probably correct but as I said, I actually don't know if a specific tribe wasn't targeted for being slaves or killed because they refused to be slaves.
The proposal is an attempt to prevent punishing tariffs driving away the likes of Nissan and Toyota, but will sound “ridiculous” to voters promised huge benefits from leaving the EU, one trade expert said.
It also means the UK is effectively asking the EU for the benefits of a customs union, a new analysis says – despite the prime minister insisting the UK is leaving the trading arrangement.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/car-industry-boris-johnson-made-in-britain-japan-south-korea-brexit-a9598466.html
"I don't believe in gestures..."
Think about it this way (all these numbers from the ft tracker; so smoothed and hopefully consistent).
The UK is averaging a bit more than 100 deaths a day this week.
3 weeks ago, the UK was identifying about 1500 cases a day.
So about 7 % of the identified cases 3 weeks ago led to death.
Germany is averaging about 10 deaths a day this week.
3 weeks ago, Germany was averaging about 300 identified cases a day.
So about 3 % of the identified cases 3 weeks ago led to death.
The simplest explanation I can see is that neither the UK nor Germany is picking up all the cases, even now. Makes sense, since we know there are lots of asymptomatic infections. That's why the tracing bit of test'n'trace is so important, to join the dots across the asymptomatic carriers. For whatever reason, the UK is doing rather worse at this than other countries.
If that's right, the obsession with headline number of tests is probably now doing more harm than good. Fewer tests, more intelligently targeted and with a faster turnaround seem like a better tactic.
I would not be surprised if the same happens for pubs, restaurants.
UK: 792
Germany 419