So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
Most pubs are not opening tomorrow
That has the recipe for even greater chaos written all over it. Arriving at the pub on Saturday, only to find it closed, will raise frustration. Onto the next to find it open, but not allowing "the boys" in due to social distancing rules, well they'll just go home a little disappointed, won't they?
No no. Apparently 70% of people say they aren't ready to go to the pub yet, so the 30% determined to get shitfaced with the boys and make a nuisance of themselves and spread the pox will behave. Obviously.
Genuine question
Would you seek an extension to lockdown and see even more devastation to jobs and peoples health, and how would you open our economy and when
The cretinous bumbling wazzock has killed tens of thousands of people by mismanaging this pandemic. Having finally got on top of it and locked us down we started to reduce the numbers. But they are still orders of magnitude above numbers in countries not run by fools. We can't copy them and unlock yet because according to his government's own process we haven't got on top of it. Whats the point of saying "if x then y" back in May and then bin that off and tell people its their patriotic duty to drink when y hasn't happened?
As the Ferrari car crash interview detailed there are a lot of sectors they have kept locked down. So we need to keep locked down a few more bits to squash the virus instead of letting it surge back and do "whack-a-mole". "I'm sorry our actions have killed your father and that our mallet missed that particular mole" is NOT a strategy. You want to see what happens when you unlock too early? 10k new cases a day in Florida. Is that what you want here?
On the 2nd July, number of cases of COVID detected in Germany - 503 On the 2nd July, number of cases of COVID detected in UK - 576
7 day moving average for new cases on 2nd July UK: 792 Germany 419
Exactly - not orders of magnitude (which would be 4,190 for one order and 41,900 for orders being two).
Be thankful for small mercies.
Indeed, but there's a lot of bleating from certain posters here about how the UK is unlocking while having more cases than everywhere else. The easing of lockdown is happening at around the right pace and time.
They mean it was simply doing it’s day job, of being on standby to refuel the QRA jets that keep the country safe. Like it doesn’t still say Royal Air Force on the side.
Did the taxpayer get good value for their £900,000 Instagram post? What a bunch of charlatans at Westminster.
The price is somewhat overstated, as it needed a service and repaint anyway. The marginal cost was no more than a couple of hundred grand, and it definitely looks the part as a VIP charter, rather than simply another boring grey RAF plane.
Keir says something to me. It isn't a common first name in England at all - indeed, I have never encountered one personally, although perhaps I don't move in the right circles.
What it says to me is that this is likely someone born to middle class left wing parents with a fixation on the Labour party.
The fact that he hasn't escaped from that is not a good sign.
The Scots and Welsh First Ministers are going to look very foolish when they come in line on the 10th July to the flight arrangements and exposed to just playing politics
Your record on predicting how Sturgeon and Drakeford will be perceived is impeccably consistent, so I'll definitely be all agog to see how this pans out.
I wonder if there's a generational divide between those irritated at the use of forenames and those who don't care or prefer it?
Personally I don't know anyone my age who is bothered by such things.
There is. Some people over the age of about 60 find it impertinent and overly familiar, particularly those who went to private schools.
I’d suggest 80 not 60 I’m 66 and make my nephew’s and nieces call me by my given name not uncle, no need for unearned so-called terms of respect if not earned.
Keir says something to me. It isn't a common first name in England at all - indeed, I have never encountered one personally, although perhaps I don't move in the right circles.
What it says to me is that this is likely someone born to middle class left wing parents with a fixation on the Labour party.
The fact that he hasn't escaped from that is not a good sign.
Keir says something to me. It isn't a common first name in England at all - indeed, I have never encountered one personally, although perhaps I don't move in the right circles.
What it says to me is that this is likely someone born to middle class left wing parents with a fixation on the Labour party.
The fact that he hasn't escaped from that is not a good sign.
In fairness, he can’t really use his middle name Rodney due to Only Fools and Horses
They mean it was simply doing it’s day job, of being on standby to refuel the QRA jets that keep the country safe. Like it doesn’t still say Royal Air Force on the side.
Did the taxpayer get good value for their £900,000 Instagram post? What a bunch of charlatans at Westminster.
The price is somewhat overstated, as it needed a service and repaint anyway. The marginal cost was no more than a couple of hundred grand, and it definitely looks the part as a VIP charter, rather than simply another boring grey RAF plane.
Great photo!
Surely RAF style roundalls would be better in a post-brexeit world?....
I wonder if there's a generational divide between those irritated at the use of forenames and those who don't care or prefer it?
Personally I don't know anyone my age who is bothered by such things.
It depends. I think it's impertinent to have an estate agent or financial advisor or cold caller, who I've never spoken to before, 'phone me and call me by my first name.
Keir says something to me. It isn't a common first name in England at all - indeed, I have never encountered one personally, although perhaps I don't move in the right circles.
What it says to me is that this is likely someone born to middle class left wing parents with a fixation on the Labour party.
The fact that he hasn't escaped from that is not a good sign.
Nicola just playing politics now saying she may agree to the lifting travel restrictions for the 10th July but needs to consider it in more detail
If she fails to follow England then Scots will just fly out of England's airports at the lost of Scots airports and jobs
She`s always been playing politics. Make sure everyone knows we have our own government by doing differently from what Westminster says just because we can.
She`s playing with fire.
Wait until the furlough scheme ends, with English businesses back open and Scottish ones still locked down.
You mean wait until the furlough scheme ends with so many English and Scottish businesses gone into liquidation. The end of furlough means the end of pretending that millions of jobs still exist. We're seeing the start of this already with thousands of redundancies every day. Sadly.
The Scots and Welsh First Ministers are going to look very foolish when they come in line on the 10th July to the flight arrangements and exposed to just playing politics
Your record on predicting how Sturgeon and Drakeford will be perceived is impeccably consistent, so I'll definitely be all agog to see how this pans out.
In Nicola's press conference just now she has told Scots they would have to be in 14 day quarantine if they fly in from English airports notwithstanding Scots have been booking holidays out of Englands airports since Shapps announcement
Keir says something to me. It isn't a common first name in England at all - indeed, I have never encountered one personally, although perhaps I don't move in the right circles.
What it says to me is that this is likely someone born to middle class left wing parents with a fixation on the Labour party.
The fact that he hasn't escaped from that is not a good sign.
Keir says something to me. It isn't a common first name in England at all - indeed, I have never encountered one personally, although perhaps I don't move in the right circles.
What it says to me is that this is likely someone born to middle class left wing parents with a fixation on the Labour party.
The fact that he hasn't escaped from that is not a good sign.
You know nothing.
And anyway he was definitely* named after the actor Keir Dullea not the politician
They mean it was simply doing it’s day job, of being on standby to refuel the QRA jets that keep the country safe. Like it doesn’t still say Royal Air Force on the side.
Did the taxpayer get good value for their £900,000 Instagram post? What a bunch of charlatans at Westminster.
The price is somewhat overstated, as it needed a service and repaint anyway. The marginal cost was no more than a couple of hundred grand, and it definitely looks the part as a VIP charter, rather than simply another boring grey RAF plane.
I wonder if there's a generational divide between those irritated at the use of forenames and those who don't care or prefer it?
Personally I don't know anyone my age who is bothered by such things.
I think the cause of irritation is that they dislike him being successful, and so hearing people refer to him by what they consider a term of endearment vexes them, and they'd like it cancelled
If the branding was not so ubiquitous and such a big part of his success then of course it would not be an issue for those who oppose him.
Nicola just playing politics now saying she may agree to the lifting travel restrictions for the 10th July but needs to consider it in more detail
If she fails to follow England then Scots will just fly out of England's airports at the lost of Scots airports and jobs
She`s always been playing politics. Make sure everyone knows we have our own government by doing differently from what Westminster says just because we can.
She`s playing with fire.
Wait until the furlough scheme ends, with English businesses back open and Scottish ones still locked down.
You mean wait until the furlough scheme ends with so many English and Scottish businesses gone into liquidation. The end of furlough means the end of pretending that millions of jobs still exist. We're seeing the start of this already with thousands of redundancies every day. Sadly.
By international standards, the U.K. furlough scheme has been one of the best anywhere.
But yes, it does have to come to a close, government can’t afford to keep paying people to stay at home, and sadly for many there won’t be a job for them to go back to. Hospitality sectors are going to be very badly affected, everyone should be encouraged to spend their money at home this summer rather than travel abroad.
My point about Scotland was mostly political - Sturgeon just wants to be different, and bonus points if she can blame “Westminster” for the failings of her own decisions. Right now, she seems more than happy to destroy the whole summer tourist season in Scotland.
They mean it was simply doing it’s day job, of being on standby to refuel the QRA jets that keep the country safe. Like it doesn’t still say Royal Air Force on the side.
Did the taxpayer get good value for their £900,000 Instagram post? What a bunch of charlatans at Westminster.
The price is somewhat overstated, as it needed a service and repaint anyway. The marginal cost was no more than a couple of hundred grand, and it definitely looks the part as a VIP charter, rather than simply another boring grey RAF plane.
Keir says something to me. It isn't a common first name in England at all - indeed, I have never encountered one personally, although perhaps I don't move in the right circles.
What it says to me is that this is likely someone born to middle class left wing parents with a fixation on the Labour party.
The fact that he hasn't escaped from that is not a good sign.
Keir says something to me. It isn't a common first name in England at all - indeed, I have never encountered one personally, although perhaps I don't move in the right circles.
What it says to me is that this is likely someone born to middle class left wing parents with a fixation on the Labour party.
The fact that he hasn't escaped from that is not a good sign.
In fairness, he can’t really use his middle name Rodney due to Only Fools and Horses
I enjoyed Stodge`s header. I think he could be right - and I cling to the hope that there is more to Johnson than meets the eye. I`m delighted that Cummings, a liberal and such a formidible intellectual force, is at at the heart of it and suspect that Stodge may agree. I know I`ll be shot for saying so.
The problem with trolling like this is that it just isn’t funny, so it doesn’t work.
Keir says something to me. It isn't a common first name in England at all - indeed, I have never encountered one personally, although perhaps I don't move in the right circles.
What it says to me is that this is likely someone born to middle class left wing parents with a fixation on the Labour party.
The fact that he hasn't escaped from that is not a good sign.
You know nothing.
And anyway he was definitely* named after the actor Keir Dullea not the politician
That may be true (or not) but the above was genuinely my initial reaction on hearing his name when he was announced as DPP.
It may just have been my bias but we all have one...
The Scots and Welsh First Ministers are going to look very foolish when they come in line on the 10th July to the flight arrangements and exposed to just playing politics
Your record on predicting how Sturgeon and Drakeford will be perceived is impeccably consistent, so I'll definitely be all agog to see how this pans out.
Same here , his criticism of Sturgeon is always over the top and partisan in my opinion. The same applies to Drakeford , and he never seems to have a good word for the NHS in Wales. I think he would be happier living in Johnsons England.
Nicola just playing politics now saying she may agree to the lifting travel restrictions for the 10th July but needs to consider it in more detail
If she fails to follow England then Scots will just fly out of England's airports at the lost of Scots airports and jobs
She`s always been playing politics. Make sure everyone knows we have our own government by doing differently from what Westminster says just because we can.
She`s playing with fire.
Wait until the furlough scheme ends, with English businesses back open and Scottish ones still locked down.
You mean wait until the furlough scheme ends with so many English and Scottish businesses gone into liquidation. The end of furlough means the end of pretending that millions of jobs still exist. We're seeing the start of this already with thousands of redundancies every day. Sadly.
By international standards, the U.K. furlough scheme has been one of the best anywhere.
But yes, it does have to come to a close, government can’t afford to keep paying people to stay at home, and sadly for many there won’t be a job for them to go back to. Hospitality sectors are going to be very badly affected, everyone should be encouraged to spend their money at home this summer rather than travel abroad.
My point about Scotland was mostly political - Sturgeon just wants to be different, and bonus points if she can blame “Westminster” for the failings of her own decisions. Right now, she seems more than happy to destroy the whole summer tourist season in Scotland.
I don't live in Scotland but my brother and his family does. They're quite happy not letting the pox-ridden English in for a bit longer. And I can't blame them.
Keir says something to me. It isn't a common first name in England at all - indeed, I have never encountered one personally, although perhaps I don't move in the right circles.
What it says to me is that this is likely someone born to middle class left wing parents with a fixation on the Labour party.
The fact that he hasn't escaped from that is not a good sign.
You know nothing.
And anyway he was definitely* named after the actor Keir Dullea not the politician
That may be true (or not) but the above was genuinely my initial reaction on hearing his name when he was announced as DPP.
It may just have been my bias but we all have one...
The price is somewhat overstated, as it needed a service and repaint anyway.
RAF multis only get repainted at their D checks. ZZ336 was still 5.5 years away from that.
The VC-10s and Trishaws looked like absolute shite for most of their working lives due to this practice.
Do you want the VIP plane to look absolute shite as it takes royalty and ministers around the world, or do you want it to proudly represent HMQ and the RAF?
To be honest this is the first press conference by Nicola that has been a real embarrasment as she has no sensible answer why she is wants to imprison Scots flying into England. She has had question after question about it and just 'havered'
I wonder if there's a generational divide between those irritated at the use of forenames and those who don't care or prefer it?
Personally I don't know anyone my age who is bothered by such things.
I think the cause of irritation is that they dislike him being successful, and so hearing people refer to him by what they consider a term of endearment vexes them, and they'd like it cancelled
@Philip_Thompson makes a valid observation about older people considering the use of first names impertinent.
It's valid but it has nothing to do with the point - about the brand - that I'm making.
Could be relevant in general to some older people. Although my non Tory, remainer parents - disappointingly - have succumbed to the "Boris" tag.
Causes ructions when it crops up. Gave them a piece of my mind at Christmas about it - with zero impact.
Nicola just playing politics now saying she may agree to the lifting travel restrictions for the 10th July but needs to consider it in more detail
If she fails to follow England then Scots will just fly out of England's airports at the lost of Scots airports and jobs
She`s always been playing politics. Make sure everyone knows we have our own government by doing differently from what Westminster says just because we can.
She`s playing with fire.
Wait until the furlough scheme ends, with English businesses back open and Scottish ones still locked down.
You mean wait until the furlough scheme ends with so many English and Scottish businesses gone into liquidation. The end of furlough means the end of pretending that millions of jobs still exist. We're seeing the start of this already with thousands of redundancies every day. Sadly.
By international standards, the U.K. furlough scheme has been one of the best anywhere.
But yes, it does have to come to a close, government can’t afford to keep paying people to stay at home, and sadly for many there won’t be a job for them to go back to. Hospitality sectors are going to be very badly affected, everyone should be encouraged to spend their money at home this summer rather than travel abroad.
My point about Scotland was mostly political - Sturgeon just wants to be different, and bonus points if she can blame “Westminster” for the failings of her own decisions. Right now, she seems more than happy to destroy the whole summer tourist season in Scotland.
I don't live in Scotland but my brother and his family does. They're quite happy not letting the pox-ridden English in for a bit longer. And I can't blame them.
The Scots and Welsh First Ministers are going to look very foolish when they come in line on the 10th July to the flight arrangements and exposed to just playing politics
Your record on predicting how Sturgeon and Drakeford will be perceived is impeccably consistent, so I'll definitely be all agog to see how this pans out.
Same here , his criticism of Sturgeon is always over the top and partisan in my opinion. The same applies to Drakeford , and he never seems to have a good word for the NHS in Wales. I think he would be happier living in Johnsons England.
Well, there isn’t much that’s good to say about the NHS in Wales. That’s why Peter Hain felt the need to point out that Wales was better off than Rwanda.
To be honest this is the first press conference by Nicola that has been a real embarrasment as she has no sensible answer why she is wants to imprison Scots flying into England. She has had question after question about it and just 'havered'
Blocking the English is a dry run surrogate for independence.
The price is somewhat overstated, as it needed a service and repaint anyway.
RAF multis only get repainted at their D checks. ZZ336 was still 5.5 years away from that.
The VC-10s and Trishaws looked like absolute shite for most of their working lives due to this practice.
Do you want the VIP plane to look absolute shite as it takes royalty and ministers around the world, or do you want it to proudly represent HMQ and the RAF?
Preferably the second.
There is however a flaw in your logic, in that this looks pretty cheap, tacky and badly designed. The RAF roundels would have been a better idea.
The price is somewhat overstated, as it needed a service and repaint anyway.
RAF multis only get repainted at their D checks. ZZ336 was still 5.5 years away from that.
The VC-10s and Trishaws looked like absolute shite for most of their working lives due to this practice.
Do you want the VIP plane to look absolute shite as it takes royalty and ministers around the world, or do you want it to proudly represent HMQ and the RAF?
Preferably the second.
There is however a flaw in your logic, in that this looks pretty cheap, tacky and badly designed. The RAF roundels would have been a better idea.
The Scots and Welsh First Ministers are going to look very foolish when they come in line on the 10th July to the flight arrangements and exposed to just playing politics
Your record on predicting how Sturgeon and Drakeford will be perceived is impeccably consistent, so I'll definitely be all agog to see how this pans out.
Same here , his criticism of Sturgeon is always over the top and partisan in my opinion. The same applies to Drakeford , and he never seems to have a good word for the NHS in Wales. I think he would be happier living in Johnsons England.
I assume you have not suffered from Wales NHS abject failures and suffering which I can assure you is laid out every week in our local press and throughout our communities who despair
And no I am living in my Country and have no desire to live in England
The US economy officially added 4.8 million jobs in June, and Trump and his rampers are hailing this as the economy 'roaring back' and evidence of a V-shaped recovery. It is, of course, just an artefact of the re-opening of the economy in many states after the lockdown.
Given that many of these states are seeing terrible increases in new cases - several states with new case totals exceeding the worst single day for the entire UK - this economic boasting at this point in time strikes me as a dangerous strategy for Trump. If, as is likely, more lock downs now ensue many of the voters Trump needs to convince will probably view similar claims of economic improvement closer to the election - when it could have done Trump some electoral good - as one more case of crying wolf. Instead, that shot has been wasted.
To be honest this is the first press conference by Nicola that has been a real embarrasment as she has no sensible answer why she is wants to imprison Scots flying into England. She has had question after question about it and just 'havered'
Blocking the English is a dry run surrogate for independence.
But she is talking of imprisoning Scots in quarantine for 14 days if they go on holiday through an English airport
Nicola just playing politics now saying she may agree to the lifting travel restrictions for the 10th July but needs to consider it in more detail
If she fails to follow England then Scots will just fly out of England's airports at the lost of Scots airports and jobs
She`s always been playing politics. Make sure everyone knows we have our own government by doing differently from what Westminster says just because we can.
She`s playing with fire.
Wait until the furlough scheme ends, with English businesses back open and Scottish ones still locked down.
You mean wait until the furlough scheme ends with so many English and Scottish businesses gone into liquidation. The end of furlough means the end of pretending that millions of jobs still exist. We're seeing the start of this already with thousands of redundancies every day. Sadly.
By international standards, the U.K. furlough scheme has been one of the best anywhere.
But yes, it does have to come to a close, government can’t afford to keep paying people to stay at home, and sadly for many there won’t be a job for them to go back to. Hospitality sectors are going to be very badly affected, everyone should be encouraged to spend their money at home this summer rather than travel abroad.
My point about Scotland was mostly political - Sturgeon just wants to be different, and bonus points if she can blame “Westminster” for the failings of her own decisions. Right now, she seems more than happy to destroy the whole summer tourist season in Scotland.
I don't live in Scotland but my brother and his family does. They're quite happy not letting the pox-ridden English in for a bit longer. And I can't blame them.
To be honest this is the first press conference by Nicola that has been a real embarrasment as she has no sensible answer why she is wants to imprison Scots flying into England. She has had question after question about it and just 'havered'
Blocking the English is a dry run surrogate for independence.
But she is talking of imprisoning Scots in quarantine for 14 days if they go on holiday through an English airport
You could not make this up
Imprisoning? Now you really, really are making it up, all right.
It is currently the regulation in Scotland that people coming into the country from outside the UK go into quarantine. So an yone who books a holiday is aware of this and accepts it.
The price is somewhat overstated, as it needed a service and repaint anyway.
RAF multis only get repainted at their D checks. ZZ336 was still 5.5 years away from that.
The VC-10s and Trishaws looked like absolute shite for most of their working lives due to this practice.
Do you want the VIP plane to look absolute shite as it takes royalty and ministers around the world, or do you want it to proudly represent HMQ and the RAF?
I don't want royalty to go anywhere except ADX Florence for the Duke of York. What I do not want is for the government to take us for utter fucking mugs and pretend that Johnson's chariot of gods is a zero cost option that has no impact on the military.
The price is somewhat overstated, as it needed a service and repaint anyway.
RAF multis only get repainted at their D checks. ZZ336 was still 5.5 years away from that.
The VC-10s and Trishaws looked like absolute shite for most of their working lives due to this practice.
Do you want the VIP plane to look absolute shite as it takes royalty and ministers around the world, or do you want it to proudly represent HMQ and the RAF?
Preferably the second.
There is however a flaw in your logic, in that this looks pretty cheap, tacky and badly designed. The RAF roundels would have been a better idea.
Agreed. Like the old VC10 C.1 scheme.
Yes, that did look good. I quite like the modern one, but get the feeling that a lot of the critisicm starts from the fact that someone doesn’t like the Prime Minister and works backwards from there.
To be honest this is the first press conference by Nicola that has been a real embarrasment as she has no sensible answer why she is wants to imprison Scots flying into England. She has had question after question about it and just 'havered'
Blocking the English is a dry run surrogate for independence.
But she is talking of imprisoning Scots in quarantine for 14 days if they go on holiday through an English airport
You could not make this up
As she's got Begbie to work on implementation of a jobs guarantee, perhaps Spud can take care of the victuals.
As for BoJo's nomenclature? Nor really fussed tbh.
I think OnlyLivingBoy goes too far, but I do agree that that "Boris" is problematic, even if only mildly. From an electoral advantage point of view, I mean. Fair playing field and all that. So it`s Johnson and Starmer for me. Always has been.
I don't see why using a forename is problematic at all.
"Call me Tony" started this before Boris was an MP and when I was a child. Then we had "Dave" decades later.
I couldn't give less of a s**t if people say Boris or Johnson and the more people whinge about it the more tempted I am to just write Boris.
You are a big big supporter of his. So "Boris" makes sense for you. You want to push his brand. You want him to prosper.
Any "Johnson" from you - which we do sometimes get - is a bonus and much appreciated.
But I don't call him Boris to be partisan, I do it because its his name.
Just like Tony or Gordon before him.
If you had called Blair "Charles" or "Anthony" - also one of his names - then that would have been weird.
Johnson reportedly goes by the name Al in his private life, so using that makes some sense. Although "Boris" is one of his names he uses it as a brand identity. Perhaps Blair was the same and doesn't use "Tony" in his private life.
I think the aspect of it being a public persona, rather than a more natural intimacy, is worthy of comment (but not whinging, oh no, never that).
That's ridiculous. I couldn't care what name he uses privately, he's not Al to me. Boris is his name, just like Tony Blair's public name was Tony even if it wasn't his first name. Gordon Brown's public name was Gordon even if it wasn't his first name.
I don't think public personas for public people is worthy of comment, public people should be entitled to private lives just like everyone else.
Superman gets in the news for his actions under that name, even if his friends in private life call him Clark in his private life, or his parents called him Kal-El.
That's an interesting (!) persona that pops into your mind when you think of Boris Johnson. Superman.
Nicola just playing politics now saying she may agree to the lifting travel restrictions for the 10th July but needs to consider it in more detail
If she fails to follow England then Scots will just fly out of England's airports at the lost of Scots airports and jobs
She`s always been playing politics. Make sure everyone knows we have our own government by doing differently from what Westminster says just because we can.
She`s playing with fire.
Wait until the furlough scheme ends, with English businesses back open and Scottish ones still locked down.
You mean wait until the furlough scheme ends with so many English and Scottish businesses gone into liquidation. The end of furlough means the end of pretending that millions of jobs still exist. We're seeing the start of this already with thousands of redundancies every day. Sadly.
By international standards, the U.K. furlough scheme has been one of the best anywhere.
But yes, it does have to come to a close, government can’t afford to keep paying people to stay at home, and sadly for many there won’t be a job for them to go back to. Hospitality sectors are going to be very badly affected, everyone should be encouraged to spend their money at home this summer rather than travel abroad.
My point about Scotland was mostly political - Sturgeon just wants to be different, and bonus points if she can blame “Westminster” for the failings of her own decisions. Right now, she seems more than happy to destroy the whole summer tourist season in Scotland.
I don't live in Scotland but my brother and his family does. They're quite happy not letting the pox-ridden English in for a bit longer. And I can't blame them.
If only Scottish twats would stay out of England
Surely the point is the welsh and Scottish governments have been given a fait a complete, like it or lump it showing complete contempt for them. Also given the number of unforced errors out of London a few days to review the list with different eyes would not have gone amiss.
The price is somewhat overstated, as it needed a service and repaint anyway.
RAF multis only get repainted at their D checks. ZZ336 was still 5.5 years away from that.
The VC-10s and Trishaws looked like absolute shite for most of their working lives due to this practice.
Do you want the VIP plane to look absolute shite as it takes royalty and ministers around the world, or do you want it to proudly represent HMQ and the RAF?
Preferably the second.
There is however a flaw in your logic, in that this looks pretty cheap, tacky and badly designed. The RAF roundels would have been a better idea.
Agreed. Like the old VC10 C.1 scheme.
Yes, that did look good. I quite like the modern one, but get the feeling that a lot of the critisicm starts from the fact that someone doesn’t like the Prime Minister and works backwards from there.
I actually don't like the new scheme irrespective of the rider - it's still a bit too shagadelic for my liking. A blue flashline, Type D roundels and a white roof - now that was and remains classic. THough it wouldn't be lettered "Royal Air Force Transport Command" any more these days, I assume.
To be honest this is the first press conference by Nicola that has been a real embarrasment as she has no sensible answer why she is wants to imprison Scots flying into England. She has had question after question about it and just 'havered'
To be fair the whole quarantine arrangements , these past few months has been a joke.
I wonder if there's a generational divide between those irritated at the use of forenames and those who don't care or prefer it? Personally I don't know anyone my age who is bothered by such things.
I think the cause of irritation is that they dislike him being successful, and so hearing people refer to him by what they consider a term of endearment vexes them, and they'd like it cancelled
When you say "successful", do you mean being declared prime minister with an 80 seat majority in the House of Commons, or do you mean that so far he has managed to cover up the Russian involvement in the GE campaign and the previous EU referendum?
I see Johnson as an incompetent, lazy cheat and a buffoon to boot. That is why I dislike him. He is blocking a space in our political system that could be better occupied by somebody else.
There are probably 10,000,000 people in the UK who would make a better show of being prime minister.
As for BoJo's nomenclature? Nor really fussed tbh.
I think OnlyLivingBoy goes too far, but I do agree that that "Boris" is problematic, even if only mildly. From an electoral advantage point of view, I mean. Fair playing field and all that. So it`s Johnson and Starmer for me. Always has been.
I don't see why using a forename is problematic at all.
"Call me Tony" started this before Boris was an MP and when I was a child. Then we had "Dave" decades later.
I couldn't give less of a s**t if people say Boris or Johnson and the more people whinge about it the more tempted I am to just write Boris.
You are a big big supporter of his. So "Boris" makes sense for you. You want to push his brand. You want him to prosper.
Any "Johnson" from you - which we do sometimes get - is a bonus and much appreciated.
People also use first names, when they neither know nor agree with someone they are arguing with, in order to be condescending
Keir says something to me. It isn't a common first name in England at all - indeed, I have never encountered one personally, although perhaps I don't move in the right circles.
What it says to me is that this is likely someone born to middle class left wing parents with a fixation on the Labour party.
The fact that he hasn't escaped from that is not a good sign.
Keir says something to me. It isn't a common first name in England at all - indeed, I have never encountered one personally, although perhaps I don't move in the right circles.
What it says to me is that this is likely someone born to middle class left wing parents with a fixation on the Labour party.
The fact that he hasn't escaped from that is not a good sign.
In fairness, he can’t really use his middle name Rodney due to Only Fools and Horses
The price is somewhat overstated, as it needed a service and repaint anyway.
RAF multis only get repainted at their D checks. ZZ336 was still 5.5 years away from that.
The VC-10s and Trishaws looked like absolute shite for most of their working lives due to this practice.
Do you want the VIP plane to look absolute shite as it takes royalty and ministers around the world, or do you want it to proudly represent HMQ and the RAF?
Preferably the second.
There is however a flaw in your logic, in that this looks pretty cheap, tacky and badly designed. The RAF roundels would have been a better idea.
It looks like a Cotam 001 rip off done by somebody who has never seen it but has had it described to them over the phone. Shinzo Abe's JAF1 777 is the best looking VVIP widebody. That's just an aviation fact.
Nicola just playing politics now saying she may agree to the lifting travel restrictions for the 10th July but needs to consider it in more detail
If she fails to follow England then Scots will just fly out of England's airports at the lost of Scots airports and jobs
She`s always been playing politics. Make sure everyone knows we have our own government by doing differently from what Westminster says just because we can.
She`s playing with fire.
Wait until the furlough scheme ends, with English businesses back open and Scottish ones still locked down.
You mean wait until the furlough scheme ends with so many English and Scottish businesses gone into liquidation. The end of furlough means the end of pretending that millions of jobs still exist. We're seeing the start of this already with thousands of redundancies every day. Sadly.
By international standards, the U.K. furlough scheme has been one of the best anywhere.
But yes, it does have to come to a close, government can’t afford to keep paying people to stay at home, and sadly for many there won’t be a job for them to go back to. Hospitality sectors are going to be very badly affected, everyone should be encouraged to spend their money at home this summer rather than travel abroad.
My point about Scotland was mostly political - Sturgeon just wants to be different, and bonus points if she can blame “Westminster” for the failings of her own decisions. Right now, she seems more than happy to destroy the whole summer tourist season in Scotland.
I don't live in Scotland but my brother and his family does. They're quite happy not letting the pox-ridden English in for a bit longer. And I can't blame them.
If only Scottish twats would stay out of England
Surely the point is the welsh and Scottish governments have been given a fait a complete, like it or lump it showing complete contempt for them. Also given the number of unforced errors out of London a few days to review the list with different eyes would not have gone amiss.
It also seems unfair to criticise the Scots and Welsh without mentioning the NIrish who have also been just as unhappy with the situation and refused to accept the fait accompli.
Nicola just playing politics now saying she may agree to the lifting travel restrictions for the 10th July but needs to consider it in more detail
If she fails to follow England then Scots will just fly out of England's airports at the lost of Scots airports and jobs
She`s always been playing politics. Make sure everyone knows we have our own government by doing differently from what Westminster says just because we can.
She`s playing with fire.
Wait until the furlough scheme ends, with English businesses back open and Scottish ones still locked down.
You mean wait until the furlough scheme ends with so many English and Scottish businesses gone into liquidation. The end of furlough means the end of pretending that millions of jobs still exist. We're seeing the start of this already with thousands of redundancies every day. Sadly.
By international standards, the U.K. furlough scheme has been one of the best anywhere.
But yes, it does have to come to a close, government can’t afford to keep paying people to stay at home, and sadly for many there won’t be a job for them to go back to. Hospitality sectors are going to be very badly affected, everyone should be encouraged to spend their money at home this summer rather than travel abroad.
My point about Scotland was mostly political - Sturgeon just wants to be different, and bonus points if she can blame “Westminster” for the failings of her own decisions. Right now, she seems more than happy to destroy the whole summer tourist season in Scotland.
I don't live in Scotland but my brother and his family does. They're quite happy not letting the pox-ridden English in for a bit longer. And I can't blame them.
If only Scottish twats would stay out of England
Surely the point is the welsh and Scottish governments have been given a fait a complete, like it or lump it showing complete contempt for them. Also given the number of unforced errors out of London a few days to review the list with different eyes would not have gone amiss.
It also seems unfair to criticise the Scots and Welsh without mentioning the NIrish who have also been just as unhappy with the situation and refused to accept the fait accompli.
Nicola just playing politics now saying she may agree to the lifting travel restrictions for the 10th July but needs to consider it in more detail
If she fails to follow England then Scots will just fly out of England's airports at the lost of Scots airports and jobs
She`s always been playing politics. Make sure everyone knows we have our own government by doing differently from what Westminster says just because we can.
She`s playing with fire.
Wait until the furlough scheme ends, with English businesses back open and Scottish ones still locked down.
You mean wait until the furlough scheme ends with so many English and Scottish businesses gone into liquidation. The end of furlough means the end of pretending that millions of jobs still exist. We're seeing the start of this already with thousands of redundancies every day. Sadly.
By international standards, the U.K. furlough scheme has been one of the best anywhere.
But yes, it does have to come to a close, government can’t afford to keep paying people to stay at home, and sadly for many there won’t be a job for them to go back to. Hospitality sectors are going to be very badly affected, everyone should be encouraged to spend their money at home this summer rather than travel abroad.
My point about Scotland was mostly political - Sturgeon just wants to be different, and bonus points if she can blame “Westminster” for the failings of her own decisions. Right now, she seems more than happy to destroy the whole summer tourist season in Scotland.
I don't live in Scotland but my brother and his family does. They're quite happy not letting the pox-ridden English in for a bit longer. And I can't blame them.
If only Scottish twats would stay out of England
Surely the point is the welsh and Scottish governments have been given a fait a complete, like it or lump it showing complete contempt for them. Also given the number of unforced errors out of London a few days to review the list with different eyes would not have gone amiss.
It also seems unfair to criticise the Scots and Welsh without mentioning the NIrish who have also been just as unhappy with the situation and refused to accept the fait accompli.
To be honest this is the first press conference by Nicola that has been a real embarrasment as she has no sensible answer why she is wants to imprison Scots flying into England. She has had question after question about it and just 'havered'
Blocking the English is a dry run surrogate for independence.
But she is talking of imprisoning Scots in quarantine for 14 days if they go on holiday through an English airport
You could not make this up
Imprisoning? Now you really, really are making it up, all right.
It is currently the regulation in Scotland that people coming into the country from outside the UK go into quarantine. So an yone who books a holiday is aware of this and accepts it.
In quarantine and from the 10th July that changes in England
This is just plain politics by Sturgeon who no doubt after todays press conference mauling will come in line with England very quickly
Nicola just playing politics now saying she may agree to the lifting travel restrictions for the 10th July but needs to consider it in more detail
If she fails to follow England then Scots will just fly out of England's airports at the lost of Scots airports and jobs
She`s always been playing politics. Make sure everyone knows we have our own government by doing differently from what Westminster says just because we can.
She`s playing with fire.
Wait until the furlough scheme ends, with English businesses back open and Scottish ones still locked down.
You mean wait until the furlough scheme ends with so many English and Scottish businesses gone into liquidation. The end of furlough means the end of pretending that millions of jobs still exist. We're seeing the start of this already with thousands of redundancies every day. Sadly.
By international standards, the U.K. furlough scheme has been one of the best anywhere.
But yes, it does have to come to a close, government can’t afford to keep paying people to stay at home, and sadly for many there won’t be a job for them to go back to. Hospitality sectors are going to be very badly affected, everyone should be encouraged to spend their money at home this summer rather than travel abroad.
My point about Scotland was mostly political - Sturgeon just wants to be different, and bonus points if she can blame “Westminster” for the failings of her own decisions. Right now, she seems more than happy to destroy the whole summer tourist season in Scotland.
I don't live in Scotland but my brother and his family does. They're quite happy not letting the pox-ridden English in for a bit longer. And I can't blame them.
If only Scottish twats would stay out of England
What a horribly prejudiced and racist comment.
I am all for mocking the SNP apologists on here, and particular the English hating Malcolmg but ffs, that is really offensive, and I am not even Scottish.
The price is somewhat overstated, as it needed a service and repaint anyway.
RAF multis only get repainted at their D checks. ZZ336 was still 5.5 years away from that.
The VC-10s and Trishaws looked like absolute shite for most of their working lives due to this practice.
Do you want the VIP plane to look absolute shite as it takes royalty and ministers around the world, or do you want it to proudly represent HMQ and the RAF?
Preferably the second.
There is however a flaw in your logic, in that this looks pretty cheap, tacky and badly designed. The RAF roundels would have been a better idea.
Agreed. Like the old VC10 C.1 scheme.
Yes, that did look good. I quite like the modern one, but get the feeling that a lot of the critisicm starts from the fact that someone doesn’t like the Prime Minister and works backwards from there.
I actually don't like the new scheme irrespective of the rider - it's still a bit too shagadelic for my liking. A blue flashline, Type D roundels and a white roof - now that was and remains classic. THough it wouldn't be lettered "Royal Air Force Transport Command" any more these days, I assume.
I know what you mean, and would probably prefer the classic design over the modern one if given a choice - but either are an improvement over a boring grey one, especially at a time when the government are focussing their efforts on international relations and trade missions.
So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
Most pubs are not opening tomorrow
And most pub-goers are not going to the pub tomorrow.
For goodness sake! The 70% staying at home are not the ones we need worry about.
If it's going to make so little difference economically, which is your defence of the policy, why are we taking the risk?
Yeah, let's just keep everything shut forever until there is zero risk.
That is a failed argument, on your own terms.
You have said it is safe because hardly anyone will go out, which defeats the economic argument. I am saying those desperate to get to drinking establishments are the very people common sense tells us would those that would be best advised to stay away. A and E will be buzzing on Saturday, so I suppose some economic activity will be generated
Of course there is a balance, but the incidence of the virus is so low that the rewards likely outweigh the risk. If you required that the hospitality sector remain shut until there was no risk, it would probably be another year before they were open.
Yes it is a balance of risk, and yes we need to return to normal as best we can. However, the wizard wheeze gesture of opening the pubs on (American) Independence Day, which falls, this year on a Saturday is foolhardy in the extreme.
Why? If people want to go there are more hours in the day for them to do it. Otherwise it'd be a mad rush starting at 5pm.
Let's see how A and E copes on Saturday. Let's hope you are right and I am wrong.
They are probably better prepared than ever. No one is doing anything so admissions are way down!
Let's assume that is correct. It is still a poor justification for encouraging idiots to get rat-arsed.
Nobody is encouraging idiots but we just have to start opening our economy.
I would expect Starmer to be following a similar path to Boris but Boris has an army of remainers and the left who dislike him with a passion and that dislike takes away rational argument
Starmer , Boris. Why the difference in using surnames ?
Because some people are known by their forename, some by the surname. Get over it.
A bit more to it than that. "Boris" is a brand - and a very powerful one.
Remember 'Not Flash, Just Gordon'?
It's not Boris' fault that he can actually do branding...
It's not his fault at all. He's built a best-selling brand and hats off to him for it.
All I'm seeking to do is tip off those who are not his supporters but are buying into the brand - by promulgating its "Boris" labeling - that this is what they are doing.
For these people the switch from "Boris" to "Johnson" might feel awkward at first - a little forced - but as with many good habits perseverance will pay off and once it's established they will feel better in themselves and will never look back.
And if enough do it, it will cost Bor ... Johnson big time. In fact it could all but kill him off imo. That's the prize.
BTW, I am pursuing this initiative in flesh & blood life too, not just on here. If somebody in my presence calls him "Boris", I ask them if they are a supporter of his or the Cons. If the answer to this is "No", then I tip them off. Not tick them off, please note, I tip them off (as above).
Agreed. I have always preferred calling him "Johnson", particularly as it is a colloquialism in the US for penis. It is so obsequious when followers of an individual they don't know refer to their idol by their first name.
Exactly the same as the unthinking moronic lefties who refer to Corbyn as "Jeremy" or even Jezza. He is Corbyn - an extremely thick ex-leader of the Labour Party who allowed Johnson, a lazy and incompetent narcissist to become PM.
Just how childish are you?
Use of "Jeremy" was always a useful flag for unthinking Corbyn sycophant when in conversation with other Labour party members. The "Boris" thing is more absurd because it's so obviously a deliberate piece of branding and yet people won't see it.
To Corbyn sycophants he was known as "the absolute boy".
I can honestly say I have never ever heard him called that until now.
Nicola just playing politics now saying she may agree to the lifting travel restrictions for the 10th July but needs to consider it in more detail
If she fails to follow England then Scots will just fly out of England's airports at the lost of Scots airports and jobs
She`s always been playing politics. Make sure everyone knows we have our own government by doing differently from what Westminster says just because we can.
She`s playing with fire.
Wait until the furlough scheme ends, with English businesses back open and Scottish ones still locked down.
You mean wait until the furlough scheme ends with so many English and Scottish businesses gone into liquidation. The end of furlough means the end of pretending that millions of jobs still exist. We're seeing the start of this already with thousands of redundancies every day. Sadly.
By international standards, the U.K. furlough scheme has been one of the best anywhere.
But yes, it does have to come to a close, government can’t afford to keep paying people to stay at home, and sadly for many there won’t be a job for them to go back to. Hospitality sectors are going to be very badly affected, everyone should be encouraged to spend their money at home this summer rather than travel abroad.
My point about Scotland was mostly political - Sturgeon just wants to be different, and bonus points if she can blame “Westminster” for the failings of her own decisions. Right now, she seems more than happy to destroy the whole summer tourist season in Scotland.
I don't live in Scotland but my brother and his family does. They're quite happy not letting the pox-ridden English in for a bit longer. And I can't blame them.
If only Scottish twats would stay out of England
Surely the point is the welsh and Scottish governments have been given a fait a complete, like it or lump it showing complete contempt for them. Also given the number of unforced errors out of London a few days to review the list with different eyes would not have gone amiss.
It also seems unfair to criticise the Scots and Welsh without mentioning the NIrish who have also been just as unhappy with the situation and refused to accept the fait accompli.
And yet you still hear piteous cries for English independence, unshackled from various Jocks, Taffs and Paddies imposing their will upon the poor, bullied (checks notes) 533 MPs of the shires.
Keir says something to me. It isn't a common first name in England at all - indeed, I have never encountered one personally, although perhaps I don't move in the right circles.
What it says to me is that this is likely someone born to middle class left wing parents with a fixation on the Labour party.
The fact that he hasn't escaped from that is not a good sign.
In fairness, he can’t really use his middle name Rodney due to Only Fools and Horses
Similarly, hardly any baby boys are named Derek nowadays.
Nicola just playing politics now saying she may agree to the lifting travel restrictions for the 10th July but needs to consider it in more detail
If she fails to follow England then Scots will just fly out of England's airports at the lost of Scots airports and jobs
She`s always been playing politics. Make sure everyone knows we have our own government by doing differently from what Westminster says just because we can.
She`s playing with fire.
Wait until the furlough scheme ends, with English businesses back open and Scottish ones still locked down.
You mean wait until the furlough scheme ends with so many English and Scottish businesses gone into liquidation. The end of furlough means the end of pretending that millions of jobs still exist. We're seeing the start of this already with thousands of redundancies every day. Sadly.
By international standards, the U.K. furlough scheme has been one of the best anywhere.
But yes, it does have to come to a close, government can’t afford to keep paying people to stay at home, and sadly for many there won’t be a job for them to go back to. Hospitality sectors are going to be very badly affected, everyone should be encouraged to spend their money at home this summer rather than travel abroad.
My point about Scotland was mostly political - Sturgeon just wants to be different, and bonus points if she can blame “Westminster” for the failings of her own decisions. Right now, she seems more than happy to destroy the whole summer tourist season in Scotland.
I don't live in Scotland but my brother and his family does. They're quite happy not letting the pox-ridden English in for a bit longer. And I can't blame them.
I am surprised, as a neo-libertarian, to find myself reposting something from MSNBC. This article by Stanley Greenberg, puts the lie to comparisons of current polling with that which falsely showed a Hillary win in 2016. Pollsters' weighting has greatly increased the presumed share of the electorate made up by non-college-educated whites - Trump's bastion - thus making current polling even worse for him than the mere headline indicates.
Greenberg's conclusions in the last paragraph strike me as spot on:
To be honest this is the first press conference by Nicola that has been a real embarrasment as she has no sensible answer why she is wants to imprison Scots flying into England. She has had question after question about it and just 'havered'
Blocking the English is a dry run surrogate for independence.
But she is talking of imprisoning Scots in quarantine for 14 days if they go on holiday through an English airport
You could not make this up
Imprisoning? Now you really, really are making it up, all right.
It is currently the regulation in Scotland that people coming into the country from outside the UK go into quarantine. So an yone who books a holiday is aware of this and accepts it.
In quarantine and from the 10th July that changes in England
This is just plain politics by Sturgeon who no doubt after todays press conference mauling will come in line with England very quickly
So, she's not been given the time to even look at the paperwork and discuss irt wioth her colleagues and advisors to see if what the London lot wants to do makes sense.
If that is they way the "English"/UK administration think how devolutiopn works then of coruse you will get messes like this. It's not Ms Sturgeon's fault, or that of Mr Drakeford, or that of - why do you never criticise her? - Ms Foster, for not being able to unmix the mess they have had dumped on their plates.
Keir says something to me. It isn't a common first name in England at all - indeed, I have never encountered one personally, although perhaps I don't move in the right circles.
What it says to me is that this is likely someone born to middle class left wing parents with a fixation on the Labour party.
The fact that he hasn't escaped from that is not a good sign.
In fairness, he can’t really use his middle name Rodney due to Only Fools and Horses
Similarly, hardly any baby boys are named Derek nowadays.
Although, after Jeter, I bet that is not true in the US.
Keir says something to me. It isn't a common first name in England at all - indeed, I have never encountered one personally, although perhaps I don't move in the right circles.
What it says to me is that this is likely someone born to middle class left wing parents with a fixation on the Labour party.
The fact that he hasn't escaped from that is not a good sign.
Keir says something to me. It isn't a common first name in England at all - indeed, I have never encountered one personally, although perhaps I don't move in the right circles.
What it says to me is that this is likely someone born to middle class left wing parents with a fixation on the Labour party.
The fact that he hasn't escaped from that is not a good sign.
In fairness, he can’t really use his middle name Rodney due to Only Fools and Horses
Although HMS Rodney had an illustrious career.
As did HMS Illustrious.
Lusty was always the best of the Invincibles. She only spent 9 out of 32 years service in refit which is very good for a carrier.
I am surprised, as a neo-libertarian, to find myself reposting something from MSNBC. This article by Stanley Greenberg, puts the lie to comparisons of current polling with that which falsely showed a Hillary win in 2016. Pollsters' weighting has greatly increased the presumed share of the electorate made up by non-college-educated whites - Trump's bastion - thus making current polling even worse for him than the mere headline indicates.
Greenberg's conclusions in the last paragraph strike me as spot on:
I am surprised, as a neo-libertarian, to find myself reposting something from MSNBC. This article by Stanley Greenberg, puts the lie to comparisons of current polling with that which falsely showed a Hillary win in 2016. Pollsters' weighting has greatly increased the presumed share of the electorate made up by non-college-educated whites - Trump's bastion - thus making current polling even worse for him than the mere headline indicates.
Greenberg's conclusions in the last paragraph strike me as spot on:
I am surprised, as a neo-libertarian, to find myself reposting something from MSNBC. This article by Stanley Greenberg, puts the lie to comparisons of current polling with that which falsely showed a Hillary win in 2016. Pollsters' weighting has greatly increased the presumed share of the electorate made up by non-college-educated whites - Trump's bastion - thus making current polling even worse for him than the mere headline indicates.
Greenberg's conclusions in the last paragraph strike me as spot on:
The Scots and Welsh First Ministers are going to look very foolish when they come in line on the 10th July to the flight arrangements and exposed to just playing politics
Your record on predicting how Sturgeon and Drakeford will be perceived is impeccably consistent, so I'll definitely be all agog to see how this pans out.
Same here , his criticism of Sturgeon is always over the top and partisan in my opinion. The same applies to Drakeford , and he never seems to have a good word for the NHS in Wales. I think he would be happier living in Johnsons England.
I assume you have not suffered from Wales NHS abject failures and suffering which I can assure you is laid out every week in our local press and throughout our communities who despair
And no I am living in my Country and have no desire to live in England
You assume correctly . My treatment in York and Leeds has been excellent. I find it hard to believe similar experiences are not had by patients in Swansea, Cardiff for example. However IMO you are determined to see the worst about Scotland and Wales , because they are not run by your beloved conservative party. Whereas I am happy to praise the NHS in England from my experience, whoever is currently in power.
The Scots and Welsh First Ministers are going to look very foolish when they come in line on the 10th July to the flight arrangements and exposed to just playing politics
Playing politics? Maybe. Can't disagree with Sturgeon's assessment however that the UK's "air bridges" policy has been yet another total shambles.
Keir says something to me. It isn't a common first name in England at all - indeed, I have never encountered one personally, although perhaps I don't move in the right circles.
What it says to me is that this is likely someone born to middle class left wing parents with a fixation on the Labour party.
The fact that he hasn't escaped from that is not a good sign.
Keir says something to me. It isn't a common first name in England at all - indeed, I have never encountered one personally, although perhaps I don't move in the right circles.
What it says to me is that this is likely someone born to middle class left wing parents with a fixation on the Labour party.
The fact that he hasn't escaped from that is not a good sign.
In fairness, he can’t really use his middle name Rodney due to Only Fools and Horses
Although HMS Rodney had an illustrious career.
As did HMS Illustrious.
Lusty was always the best of the Invincibles. She only spent 9 out of 32 years service in refit which is very good for a carrier.
Was that an apt nickname for those who served aboard?
BBC radio news at midnight tonight said: “…after racist comments by David Starkey”. They didn’t even bother to say “alleged racist comments”.
Allegedly, not alleged. It is (at best) the racist nature of the recorded comments that might be in doubt, not their existence given they are on video, so "allegedly racist" rather than "alleged ... comments". I doubt we'll see yet another Starkey television series on the Tudors.
A linguistic question
Starkey said “so many damn blacks survived”. It certainly indicates he has some pretty antediluvian views. But is the actual *comment* racist?
If not then aren’t you attacking someone for what they believe?
The other contexts when you might say, "why are there still so many damn < something >" are, I think, where the something is negative - so many damn slugs, so many damn midges, so many damn racists, etc.
So the implication from common usage of the word in the sentence is that the continued existence of black people despite slavery is a negative thing - clearly racist.
Yes, clearly racist.
Clearly racist and on camera. No need to use the word alleged or allegedly.
If he hadn't used the word damn it would be a different matter.
I think it would still be clearly racist, though obviously a bit less offensive. Without wanting to get into the argument of whether the slave trade was "genocide", nobody would say "if the nazis committed genocide how come there are so many whites in Europe?"
His genocide arguments were incredibly offensive.
His argument was that genocides don't exist if some of the people survive.
At the same time, I wouldn't personally use the word 'genocide' to describe the slave trade. It's too loaded a term and carries particular meanings that don't fit especially well with the reality of what happened.
'Ethnic cleansing' would have been a much more appropriate phrase, especially given colonial slavery involved the moving or suppression of First Nation peoples.
Practically speaking, is there any difference between genocide and ethnic cleansing?
Yes. Genocide is the deliberate attempt to wipe out a whole race. Ethnic cleansing is an attempt to empty an area of a particular race, which is more usually by moving them out by force (which also of course generally includes multiple deaths) usually followed by the repopulation of the area with members of a different race.
At its crudest the Holocaust was a genocide, the Sudeten German expulsion was ethnic cleansing.
Edit - I suppose you could say that all genocides are a form of ethnic cleansing, but not all ethnic cleansing meets the threshold for genocide.
Have a good morning.
Thanks. I realised my question didn't make my context clear. I accept ethnic cleansing can mean the forced displacement of a race, such as happened in Israel after independence, without the deliberate killing of those people. However, the slave trade like the Nazi Holocaust resulted in the inevitable deaths of millions, the difference being that the explicit elimination of a race through murder in the case of the Holocaust. I accept the intent might be an important distinction. However as I posited yesterday, if you took the gas chamber element away from the Nazi concentration camps, would it no longer be a genocide? The concentration camps were a key part of the German slave economy and as such maybe not so different from the African slave trade?
Checking in briefly:
Yes, it would still be a genocide. Because the gas chambers were not actually quite as important in the Holocaust as memory has made them. It is estimated that around half of the Jews who were killed were actually shot, many of them during Operation Barbarossa (without being sent into ghettos first) which is when systematic killing began. (Figures are here: https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/documenting-numbers-of-victims-of-the-holocaust-and-nazi-persecution ) Very large numbers also of course died of torture, starvation, disease and exposure.
While the ghettos and later, the concentration camps and death camps were economically important to the Germans, from 1941 they were progressively less so.
You could argue perhaps that prior to 1941-42 the Holocaust was primarily ethnic cleansing (which led to the ghettoes and other suggestions e.g. the 'Madagascar solution') but from thereon in it was by any argument a genocide, and the gas chambers were actually a fairly late development in that.
Allowing for all the evils of the slave trade, the Holocaust was on a whole different level. As was the Armenian genocide, Rwanda, the Volga Germans, the Uighers, even the Janjaweed in Sudan or the Vendee massacre in the 1790s. Because ultimately, extermination was not the aim of the slave trade.
Thanks. I should add I am OK with "ethnic cleansing", although I don't think it's a legal term in international law. There is a lot of it about and it should be recognised as such. But separating intent from effect isn't always easy and, gut feel, there are mass acts that need to be called out for the sickening horrors they are. The Nazi Holocaust is definitely one. The African slave trade is without doubt another.
Crikey - that could be taken out of context! I am sure you are not ok with ethnic cleansing, except as a term!
Ha! I'm totally not OK with ethnic cleansing, as you correctly surmised.
A long way to go. Lloyd Russell-Moyle is still a shadow minister. Burgon still an MP.
Corbyn was an MP right through the Blair years, it didn't matter because he had no influence. You don't have to weed out every fringe player, the Tories have still got Francois for heavens sake.
I am surprised, as a neo-libertarian, to find myself reposting something from MSNBC. This article by Stanley Greenberg, puts the lie to comparisons of current polling with that which falsely showed a Hillary win in 2016. Pollsters' weighting has greatly increased the presumed share of the electorate made up by non-college-educated whites - Trump's bastion - thus making current polling even worse for him than the mere headline indicates.
Greenberg's conclusions in the last paragraph strike me as spot on:
Joe Biden is not exactly an exciting candidate but he will do massively better amongst white non college graduates than Hilary. He's much more their kind of guy. I also wonder if that group will be as strongly motivated to vote for Trump as they were against Hilary with her "deplorables" condescension.
The Scots and Welsh First Ministers are going to look very foolish when they come in line on the 10th July to the flight arrangements and exposed to just playing politics
Your record on predicting how Sturgeon and Drakeford will be perceived is impeccably consistent, so I'll definitely be all agog to see how this pans out.
Same here , his criticism of Sturgeon is always over the top and partisan in my opinion. The same applies to Drakeford , and he never seems to have a good word for the NHS in Wales. I think he would be happier living in Johnsons England.
I assume you have not suffered from Wales NHS abject failures and suffering which I can assure you is laid out every week in our local press and throughout our communities who despair
And no I am living in my Country and have no desire to live in England
You assume correctly . My treatment in York and Leeds has been excellent. I find it hard to believe similar experiences are not had by patients in Swansea, Cardiff for example. However IMO you are determined to see the worst about Scotland and Wales , because they are not run by your beloved conservative party. Whereas I am happy to praise the NHS in England from my experience, whoever is currently in power.
You would be very surprised, I think about variation in quality of care.
In London, there are hospitals where people joke, that if you are stabbed in the A&E, the best plan is to get a cab to another A&E.
So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
Most pubs are not opening tomorrow
And most pub-goers are not going to the pub tomorrow.
For goodness sake! The 70% staying at home are not the ones we need worry about.
If it's going to make so little difference economically, which is your defence of the policy, why are we taking the risk?
Yeah, let's just keep everything shut forever until there is zero risk.
That is a failed argument, on your own terms.
You have said it is safe because hardly anyone will go out, which defeats the economic argument. I am saying those desperate to get to drinking establishments are the very people common sense tells us would those that would be best advised to stay away. A and E will be buzzing on Saturday, so I suppose some economic activity will be generated
Of course there is a balance, but the incidence of the virus is so low that the rewards likely outweigh the risk. If you required that the hospitality sector remain shut until there was no risk, it would probably be another year before they were open.
Yes it is a balance of risk, and yes we need to return to normal as best we can. However, the wizard wheeze gesture of opening the pubs on (American) Independence Day, which falls, this year on a Saturday is foolhardy in the extreme.
Why? If people want to go there are more hours in the day for them to do it. Otherwise it'd be a mad rush starting at 5pm.
Let's see how A and E copes on Saturday. Let's hope you are right and I am wrong.
They are probably better prepared than ever. No one is doing anything so admissions are way down!
Let's assume that is correct. It is still a poor justification for encouraging idiots to get rat-arsed.
Nobody is encouraging idiots but we just have to start opening our economy.
I would expect Starmer to be following a similar path to Boris but Boris has an army of remainers and the left who dislike him with a passion and that dislike takes away rational argument
Starmer , Boris. Why the difference in using surnames ?
Because some people are known by their forename, some by the surname. Get over it.
A bit more to it than that. "Boris" is a brand - and a very powerful one.
Remember 'Not Flash, Just Gordon'?
It's not Boris' fault that he can actually do branding...
It's not his fault at all. He's built a best-selling brand and hats off to him for it.
All I'm seeking to do is tip off those who are not his supporters but are buying into the brand - by promulgating its "Boris" labeling - that this is what they are doing.
For these people the switch from "Boris" to "Johnson" might feel awkward at first - a little forced - but as with many good habits perseverance will pay off and once it's established they will feel better in themselves and will never look back.
And if enough do it, it will cost Bor ... Johnson big time. In fact it could all but kill him off imo. That's the prize.
BTW, I am pursuing this initiative in flesh & blood life too, not just on here. If somebody in my presence calls him "Boris", I ask them if they are a supporter of his or the Cons. If the answer to this is "No", then I tip them off. Not tick them off, please note, I tip them off (as above).
Agreed. I have always preferred calling him "Johnson", particularly as it is a colloquialism in the US for penis. It is so obsequious when followers of an individual they don't know refer to their idol by their first name.
Exactly the same as the unthinking moronic lefties who refer to Corbyn as "Jeremy" or even Jezza. He is Corbyn - an extremely thick ex-leader of the Labour Party who allowed Johnson, a lazy and incompetent narcissist to become PM.
Just how childish are you?
Use of "Jeremy" was always a useful flag for unthinking Corbyn sycophant when in conversation with other Labour party members. The "Boris" thing is more absurd because it's so obviously a deliberate piece of branding and yet people won't see it.
To Corbyn sycophants he was known as "the absolute boy".
I can honestly say I have never ever heard him called that until now.
Yes, "the absolute boy" meaning, I guess, the real deal. The socialists` messiah, no less.
Keir says something to me. It isn't a common first name in England at all - indeed, I have never encountered one personally, although perhaps I don't move in the right circles.
What it says to me is that this is likely someone born to middle class left wing parents with a fixation on the Labour party.
The fact that he hasn't escaped from that is not a good sign.
In fairness, he can’t really use his middle name Rodney due to Only Fools and Horses
He could have tried "Rod Starmer", although I'm not sure he'd get away with that.
"Boris" only gets away with "Boris" because it fits somehow.
So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
Most pubs are not opening tomorrow
That has the recipe for even greater chaos written all over it. Arriving at the pub on Saturday, only to find it closed, will raise frustration. Onto the next to find it open, but not allowing "the boys" in due to social distancing rules, well they'll just go home a little disappointed, won't they?
No no. Apparently 70% of people say they aren't ready to go to the pub yet, so the 30% determined to get shitfaced with the boys and make a nuisance of themselves and spread the pox will behave. Obviously.
Genuine question
Would you seek an extension to lockdown and see even more devastation to jobs and peoples health, and how would you open our economy and when
The cretinous bumbling wazzock has killed tens of thousands of people by mismanaging this pandemic. Having finally got on top of it and locked us down we started to reduce the numbers. But they are still orders of magnitude above numbers in countries not run by fools. We can't copy them and unlock yet because according to his government's own process we haven't got on top of it. Whats the point of saying "if x then y" back in May and then bin that off and tell people its their patriotic duty to drink when y hasn't happened?
As the Ferrari car crash interview detailed there are a lot of sectors they have kept locked down. So we need to keep locked down a few more bits to squash the virus instead of letting it surge back and do "whack-a-mole". "I'm sorry our actions have killed your father and that our mallet missed that particular mole" is NOT a strategy. You want to see what happens when you unlock too early? 10k new cases a day in Florida. Is that what you want here?
On the 2nd July, number of cases of COVID detected in Germany - 503 On the 2nd July, number of cases of COVID detected in UK - 576
7 day moving average for new cases on 2nd July UK: 792 Germany 419
Exactly - not orders of magnitude (which would be 4,190 for one order and 41,900 for orders being two).
Be thankful for small mercies.
I am but the point is the 'orders of magnitude' up thread was totally wrong (not your comment)
I wonder if there's a generational divide between those irritated at the use of forenames and those who don't care or prefer it?
Personally I don't know anyone my age who is bothered by such things.
This is the only place that I've seen where people do care. It's such an odd and pointless discussion. Some politicians go by their first name (Dave, Boris, Ken, Maggie) and others don't (Blair, Brown, May, Major). What we call them on PB makes literally no difference to anyone. Call him Boris, Johnson, c***face, he's not going to notice.
Some go by another name entirely e.g. Paddy rather than John Jeremy Ashdown
Comments
Great photo!
Breakfast
Keir says something to me. It isn't a common first name in England at all - indeed, I have never encountered one personally, although perhaps I don't move in the right circles.
What it says to me is that this is likely someone born to middle class left wing parents with a fixation on the Labour party.
The fact that he hasn't escaped from that is not a good sign.
It is a nonsense and she knows it
The VC-10s and Trishaws looked like absolute shite for most of their working lives due to this practice.
You are simply rephrasing my point.
But yes, it does have to come to a close, government can’t afford to keep paying people to stay at home, and sadly for many there won’t be a job for them to go back to. Hospitality sectors are going to be very badly affected, everyone should be encouraged to spend their money at home this summer rather than travel abroad.
My point about Scotland was mostly political - Sturgeon just wants to be different, and bonus points if she can blame “Westminster” for the failings of her own decisions. Right now, she seems more than happy to destroy the whole summer tourist season in Scotland.
It may just have been my bias but we all have one...
The editor caught me out again
The same applies to Drakeford , and he never seems to have a good word for the NHS in Wales.
I think he would be happier living in Johnsons England.
Could be relevant in general to some older people. Although my non Tory, remainer parents - disappointingly - have succumbed to the "Boris" tag.
Causes ructions when it crops up. Gave them a piece of my mind at Christmas about it - with zero impact.
There is however a flaw in your logic, in that this looks pretty cheap, tacky and badly designed. The RAF roundels would have been a better idea.
And no I am living in my Country and have no desire to live in England
Given that many of these states are seeing terrible increases in new cases - several states with new case totals exceeding the worst single day for the entire UK - this economic boasting at this point in time strikes me as a dangerous strategy for Trump. If, as is likely, more lock downs now ensue many of the voters Trump needs to convince will probably view similar claims of economic improvement closer to the election - when it could have done Trump some electoral good - as one more case of crying wolf. Instead, that shot has been wasted.
You could not make this up
It is currently the regulation in Scotland that people coming into the country from outside the UK go into quarantine. So an yone who books a holiday is aware of this and accepts it.
What's going on there?
https://twitter.com/kakape/status/1278982948822355977
I see Johnson as an incompetent, lazy cheat and a buffoon to boot. That is why I dislike him. He is blocking a space in our political system that could be better occupied by somebody else.
There are probably 10,000,000 people in the UK who would make a better show of being prime minister.
This is just plain politics by Sturgeon who no doubt after todays press conference mauling will come in line with England very quickly
Night shift workers, breakfast in gastro pubs (with or without alcohol, take your pick).
I am all for mocking the SNP apologists on here, and particular the English hating Malcolmg but ffs, that is really offensive, and I am not even Scottish.
I think this needs censuring @MikeSmithson
Greenberg's conclusions in the last paragraph strike me as spot on:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/believe-the-polls-this-time/ar-BB16fqv1
If that is they way the "English"/UK administration think how devolutiopn works then of coruse you will get messes like this. It's not Ms Sturgeon's fault, or that of Mr Drakeford, or that of - why do you never criticise her? - Ms Foster, for not being able to unmix the mess they have had dumped on their plates.
Headline - 38
7 days - 21 - quite a lot of back dating
Yesterday - 6
As ever last 3-5 days subject to revision - last 5 days included for completeness
*Edit This answer is self-contradictory
My treatment in York and Leeds has been excellent.
I find it hard to believe similar experiences are not had by patients in Swansea, Cardiff for example.
However IMO you are determined to see the worst about Scotland and Wales , because they are not run by your beloved conservative party.
Whereas I am happy to praise the NHS in England from my experience, whoever is currently in power.
https://twitter.com/bbctms/status/1279038913961738240?s=20
In London, there are hospitals where people joke, that if you are stabbed in the A&E, the best plan is to get a cab to another A&E.
NEW THREAD
"Boris" only gets away with "Boris" because it fits somehow.
Singapore says no.
As do many of the countries on the list.....
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/coronavirus-covid-19-countries-and-territories-exempt-from-advice-against-all-but-essential-international-travel