So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
Most pubs are not opening tomorrow
That has the recipe for even greater chaos written all over it. Arriving at the pub on Saturday, only to find it closed, will raise frustration. Onto the next to find it open, but not allowing "the boys" in due to social distancing rules, well they'll just go home a little disappointed, won't they?
No no. Apparently 70% of people say they aren't ready to go to the pub yet, so the 30% determined to get shitfaced with the boys and make a nuisance of themselves and spread the pox will behave. Obviously.
Genuine question
Would you seek an extension to lockdown and see even more devastation to jobs and peoples health, and how would you open our economy and when
Well BigG. the defenders of the policy are saying, no one is going to the pub anyway, so it will be safe. So in that case, what is the point. It is just a grand gesture.
We can't open schools, but we can open pubs. I am not sure we have our priorities right.
Schools are open and have been all along
However, just how long do you think we can keep our economy closed and how many millions of jobs are you willing to lose in the process
Schools are not open - only in very limited situations (special needs, key workers and some years occasionally - for my children it's 2 hours a week per topic, for years 7-9 there is virtually nothing).
Many teachers, especially in primary schools have been working longer hours over the past few weeks. I part because they have to chase up individual children on their iPads etc.
Teachers are doing their best (and as you say probably working longer hours) but that isn't the same as schools being open - which is what BigG was implying - that statement is simply not true and it's a great hassle for a lot of people, not just children and teachers but also parents who are having to entertain children, teach them and work at the same time.
Of course the economy is a problem. Thousands of jobs going every day in retail and hospitality and this feels like only the start of it. We shouldn't be here as we should have broken the back of the virus like other have. But we are where we are. So what choices do we have?
1. Fuck it. Reopen everything like Trumpy loons have done in America. And in a few weeks watch us be like Florida. We'll not save the economy by killing people en-masse 2. A whack-a-mole reopening. Get out there and spend your sodding money. If you die then you should be supporting the government for all the things they have done. How to stay safe is up to you. 3. A tightly controlled reopening. You MUST wear a mask in buildings and on public transport with large summary fines for not doing so.
That the bumbling fool is doing 2 is no surprise. When the only detail he knows is what he made up and gets sacked for we knew this would be a problem. And 6 months from now the next financial calamity where no deal is a "very good option". That we can't possibly build recruit program and implement a physical border in 6 months is just detail he doen't understand. When the ports and trade and logistics immediately grind to a halt blaming the EU won't get him very far.
Why would we be like Florida? The number of deaths and new cases has been falling away sharply. Re-opening the shops did not lead to a surge in new cases.
So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
Most pubs are not opening tomorrow
And most pub-goers are not going to the pub tomorrow.
For goodness sake! The 70% staying at home are not the ones we need worry about.
If it's going to make so little difference economically, which is your defence of the policy, why are we taking the risk?
Yeah, let's just keep everything shut forever until there is zero risk.
That is a failed argument, on your own terms.
You have said it is safe because hardly anyone will go out, which defeats the economic argument. I am saying those desperate to get to drinking establishments are the very people common sense tells us would those that would be best advised to stay away. A and E will be buzzing on Saturday, so I suppose some economic activity will be generated
Of course there is a balance, but the incidence of the virus is so low that the rewards likely outweigh the risk. If you required that the hospitality sector remain shut until there was no risk, it would probably be another year before they were open.
Yes it is a balance of risk, and yes we need to return to normal as best we can. However, the wizard wheeze gesture of opening the pubs on (American) Independence Day, which falls, this year on a Saturday is foolhardy in the extreme.
Why? If people want to go there are more hours in the day for them to do it. Otherwise it'd be a mad rush starting at 5pm.
Let's see how A and E copes on Saturday. Let's hope you are right and I am wrong.
They are probably better prepared than ever. No one is doing anything so admissions are way down!
Let's assume that is correct. It is still a poor justification for encouraging idiots to get rat-arsed.
Nobody is encouraging idiots but we just have to start opening our economy.
I would expect Starmer to be following a similar path to Boris but Boris has an army of remainers and the left who dislike him with a passion and that dislike takes away rational argument
So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
Most pubs are not opening tomorrow
And most pub-goers are not going to the pub tomorrow.
For goodness sake! The 70% staying at home are not the ones we need worry about.
If it's going to make so little difference economically, which is your defence of the policy, why are we taking the risk?
Yeah, let's just keep everything shut forever until there is zero risk.
That is a failed argument, on your own terms.
You have said it is safe because hardly anyone will go out, which defeats the economic argument. I am saying those desperate to get to drinking establishments are the very people common sense tells us would those that would be best advised to stay away. A and E will be buzzing on Saturday, so I suppose some economic activity will be generated
Of course there is a balance, but the incidence of the virus is so low that the rewards likely outweigh the risk. If you required that the hospitality sector remain shut until there was no risk, it would probably be another year before they were open.
Yes it is a balance of risk, and yes we need to return to normal as best we can. However, the wizard wheeze gesture of opening the pubs on (American) Independence Day, which falls, this year on a Saturday is foolhardy in the extreme.
Why? If people want to go there are more hours in the day for them to do it. Otherwise it'd be a mad rush starting at 5pm.
Let's see how A and E copes on Saturday. Let's hope you are right and I am wrong.
You have to remember about70% of the population would not go to a pub anyway So the poll is meaningless unless they are filtered out first. The same about restaurants I bet they would go to mc donalds but wouldn’t go to a chef and brewer which they wouldn’t go to anyway. If going wear mask unless eating and drinking, sanitize hands and no kissing greetings. Do as the proprietor asks and keep your distance.
The poll actually said only 30% of the population would feel comfortable, so that's an upper limit on those that will go, assuming some non pub-goers did say they would feel comfortable despite not planning on going.
BBC radio news at midnight tonight said: “…after racist comments by David Starkey”. They didn’t even bother to say “alleged racist comments”.
Allegedly, not alleged. It is (at best) the racist nature of the recorded comments that might be in doubt, not their existence given they are on video, so "allegedly racist" rather than "alleged ... comments". I doubt we'll see yet another Starkey television series on the Tudors.
A linguistic question
Starkey said “so many damn blacks survived”. It certainly indicates he has some pretty antediluvian views. But is the actual *comment* racist?
If not then aren’t you attacking someone for what they believe?
The other contexts when you might say, "why are there still so many damn < something >" are, I think, where the something is negative - so many damn slugs, so many damn midges, so many damn racists, etc.
So the implication from common usage of the word in the sentence is that the continued existence of black people despite slavery is a negative thing - clearly racist.
Yes, clearly racist.
Clearly racist and on camera. No need to use the word alleged or allegedly.
If he hadn't used the word damn it would be a different matter.
I think it would still be clearly racist, though obviously a bit less offensive. Without wanting to get into the argument of whether the slave trade was "genocide", nobody would say "if the nazis committed genocide how come there are so many whites in Europe?"
His genocide arguments were incredibly offensive.
His argument was that genocides don't exist if some of the people survive.
At the same time, I wouldn't personally use the word 'genocide' to describe the slave trade. It's too loaded a term and carries particular meanings that don't fit especially well with the reality of what happened.
'Ethnic cleansing' would have been a much more appropriate phrase, especially given colonial slavery involved the moving or suppression of First Nation peoples.
Difficult not to describe what happened to the latter as genocide, though.
BBC radio news at midnight tonight said: “…after racist comments by David Starkey”. They didn’t even bother to say “alleged racist comments”.
Allegedly, not alleged. It is (at best) the racist nature of the recorded comments that might be in doubt, not their existence given they are on video, so "allegedly racist" rather than "alleged ... comments". I doubt we'll see yet another Starkey television series on the Tudors.
A linguistic question
Starkey said “so many damn blacks survived”. It certainly indicates he has some pretty antediluvian views. But is the actual *comment* racist?
If not then aren’t you attacking someone for what they believe?
The other contexts when you might say, "why are there still so many damn < something >" are, I think, where the something is negative - so many damn slugs, so many damn midges, so many damn racists, etc.
So the implication from common usage of the word in the sentence is that the continued existence of black people despite slavery is a negative thing - clearly racist.
Yes, clearly racist.
Clearly racist and on camera. No need to use the word alleged or allegedly.
If he hadn't used the word damn it would be a different matter.
I think it would still be clearly racist, though obviously a bit less offensive. Without wanting to get into the argument of whether the slave trade was "genocide", nobody would say "if the nazis committed genocide how come there are so many whites in Europe?"
There weren't that many Jews left, though. The Nazis perpetrated a genocide against the Jewish people, not white people.
Which makes my point for me. I guess Starkey can easily imagine there is a difference between one kind of European and another, so one group of Europeans being killed is easily seen as genocide, but seems unable to imagine any differences between all black Africans. According to his logic there has never been any genocide anywhere in Africa because there are so many blacks still living in Africa. "There was no genocide in Rwanda because there are so many blacks in Africa." It's stupid, offensive and racist.
I'm not saying it wasn't racist or offensive, it was. My point was that the genocidebof the Holocaust was perpetrated against a specific people. I don't think slavery was targeted at a specific tribe or race, it was fairly random. Though I'm ready to be corrected.
Hitler wanted to eradicate Jews, I'm pretty sure that slave traders just wanted to make money, not eradicate black people.
Hmm it's probably complicated, but I always understood that certain ethnic groups were targeted in Africa (perhaps more by the African partners of the European slave traders), maybe someone has some expertise?
But I'm not really arguing about whether genocide happened or not. I'm saying Starkey's racist logic is that for a genocide to have happened, the entire black population of Africa would have had to be targeted.
As I said, I don't know if there was specific targeting, at least by the slave traders it doesn't seem like it, they probably just bought the slaves available.
Starkey's logic seems to stem from that, slavery was randomly targeted against black people in general so it couldn't have been genocide. I think that's probably correct but as I said, I actually don't know if a specific tribe wasn't targeted for being slaves or killed because they refused to be slaves.
How would you describe the actions of people like Tamerlane?
Of course the economy is a problem. Thousands of jobs going every day in retail and hospitality and this feels like only the start of it. We shouldn't be here as we should have broken the back of the virus like other have. But we are where we are. So what choices do we have?
1. Fuck it. Reopen everything like Trumpy loons have done in America. And in a few weeks watch us be like Florida. We'll not save the economy by killing people en-masse 2. A whack-a-mole reopening. Get out there and spend your sodding money. If you die then you should be supporting the government for all the things they have done. How to stay safe is up to you. 3. A tightly controlled reopening. You MUST wear a mask in buildings and on public transport with large summary fines for not doing so.
That the bumbling fool is doing 2 is no surprise. When the only detail he knows is what he made up and gets sacked for we knew this would be a problem. And 6 months from now the next financial calamity where no deal is a "very good option". That we can't possibly build recruit program and implement a physical border in 6 months is just detail he doen't understand. When the ports and trade and logistics immediately grind to a halt blaming the EU won't get him very far.
Why would we be like Florida? The number of deaths and new cases has been falling away sharply. Re-opening the shops did not lead to a surge in new cases.
Of course the economy is a problem. Thousands of jobs going every day in retail and hospitality and this feels like only the start of it. We shouldn't be here as we should have broken the back of the virus like other have. But we are where we are. So what choices do we have?
1. Fuck it. Reopen everything like Trumpy loons have done in America. And in a few weeks watch us be like Florida. We'll not save the economy by killing people en-masse 2. A whack-a-mole reopening. Get out there and spend your sodding money. If you die then you should be supporting the government for all the things they have done. How to stay safe is up to you. 3. A tightly controlled reopening. You MUST wear a mask in buildings and on public transport with large summary fines for not doing so.
That the bumbling fool is doing 2 is no surprise. When the only detail he knows is what he made up and gets sacked for we knew this would be a problem. And 6 months from now the next financial calamity where no deal is a "very good option". That we can't possibly build recruit program and implement a physical border in 6 months is just detail he doen't understand. When the ports and trade and logistics immediately grind to a halt blaming the EU won't get him very far.
Why would we be like Florida? The number of deaths and new cases has been falling away sharply. Re-opening the shops did not lead to a surge in new cases.
Of course the economy is a problem. Thousands of jobs going every day in retail and hospitality and this feels like only the start of it. We shouldn't be here as we should have broken the back of the virus like other have. But we are where we are. So what choices do we have?
1. Fuck it. Reopen everything like Trumpy loons have done in America. And in a few weeks watch us be like Florida. We'll not save the economy by killing people en-masse 2. A whack-a-mole reopening. Get out there and spend your sodding money. If you die then you should be supporting the government for all the things they have done. How to stay safe is up to you. 3. A tightly controlled reopening. You MUST wear a mask in buildings and on public transport with large summary fines for not doing so.
That the bumbling fool is doing 2 is no surprise. When the only detail he knows is what he made up and gets sacked for we knew this would be a problem. And 6 months from now the next financial calamity where no deal is a "very good option". That we can't possibly build recruit program and implement a physical border in 6 months is just detail he doen't understand. When the ports and trade and logistics immediately grind to a halt blaming the EU won't get him very far.
Why would we be like Florida? The number of deaths and new cases has been falling away sharply. Re-opening the shops did not lead to a surge in new cases.
So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
Most pubs are not opening tomorrow
And most pub-goers are not going to the pub tomorrow.
For goodness sake! The 70% staying at home are not the ones we need worry about.
If it's going to make so little difference economically, which is your defence of the policy, why are we taking the risk?
Yeah, let's just keep everything shut forever until there is zero risk.
That is a failed argument, on your own terms.
You have said it is safe because hardly anyone will go out, which defeats the economic argument. I am saying those desperate to get to drinking establishments are the very people common sense tells us would those that would be best advised to stay away. A and E will be buzzing on Saturday, so I suppose some economic activity will be generated
Of course there is a balance, but the incidence of the virus is so low that the rewards likely outweigh the risk. If you required that the hospitality sector remain shut until there was no risk, it would probably be another year before they were open.
Yes it is a balance of risk, and yes we need to return to normal as best we can. However, the wizard wheeze gesture of opening the pubs on (American) Independence Day, which falls, this year on a Saturday is foolhardy in the extreme.
Why? If people want to go there are more hours in the day for them to do it. Otherwise it'd be a mad rush starting at 5pm.
Let's see how A and E copes on Saturday. Let's hope you are right and I am wrong.
They are probably better prepared than ever. No one is doing anything so admissions are way down!
Let's assume that is correct. It is still a poor justification for encouraging idiots to get rat-arsed.
Nobody is encouraging idiots but we just have to start opening our economy.
I would expect Starmer to be following a similar path to Boris but Boris has an army of remainers and the left who dislike him with a passion and that dislike takes away rational argument
Yes as demonstrated by Tory voters on here who argue that Schools are open when open means operating at 10%-20% capacity and doing nothing like what they used to do..
I agree with the concept of "black lives matter", I don't agree with the organisation "Black Lives Matter" or "Black Lives Matter UK". That's what I think Keir was getting at.
He's making hard work of saying what Nigel Farage said a month ago
So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
Most pubs are not opening tomorrow
That has the recipe for even greater chaos written all over it. Arriving at the pub on Saturday, only to find it closed, will raise frustration. Onto the next to find it open, but not allowing "the boys" in due to social distancing rules, well they'll just go home a little disappointed, won't they?
No no. Apparently 70% of people say they aren't ready to go to the pub yet, so the 30% determined to get shitfaced with the boys and make a nuisance of themselves and spread the pox will behave. Obviously.
Genuine question
Would you seek an extension to lockdown and see even more devastation to jobs and peoples health, and how would you open our economy and when
Well BigG. the defenders of the policy are saying, no one is going to the pub anyway, so it will be safe. So in that case, what is the point. It is just a grand gesture.
We can't open schools, but we can open pubs. I am not sure we have our priorities right.
Schools are open and have been all along
However, just how long do you think we can keep our economy closed and how many millions of jobs are you willing to lose in the process
Schools are not open - only in very limited situations (special needs, key workers and some years occasionally - for my children it's 2 hours a week per topic, for years 7-9 there is virtually nothing).
Many teachers, especially in primary schools have been working longer hours over the past few weeks. I part because they have to chase up individual children on their iPads etc.
Teachers are doing their best (and as you say probably working longer hours) but that isn't the same as schools being open - which is what BigG was implying - that statement is simply not true and it's a great hassle for a lot of people, not just children and teachers but also parents who are having to entertain children, teach them and work at the same time.
My sons school is in the private sector and has been educating it's students on line and at the same time educating pupils in the emergency sector
It does raise the questions why state schools have not done more on line tuition
BBC radio news at midnight tonight said: “…after racist comments by David Starkey”. They didn’t even bother to say “alleged racist comments”.
Allegedly, not alleged. It is (at best) the racist nature of the recorded comments that might be in doubt, not their existence given they are on video, so "allegedly racist" rather than "alleged ... comments". I doubt we'll see yet another Starkey television series on the Tudors.
A linguistic question
Starkey said “so many damn blacks survived”. It certainly indicates he has some pretty antediluvian views. But is the actual *comment* racist?
If not then aren’t you attacking someone for what they believe?
The other contexts when you might say, "why are there still so many damn < something >" are, I think, where the something is negative - so many damn slugs, so many damn midges, so many damn racists, etc.
So the implication from common usage of the word in the sentence is that the continued existence of black people despite slavery is a negative thing - clearly racist.
Yes, clearly racist.
Clearly racist and on camera. No need to use the word alleged or allegedly.
If he hadn't used the word damn it would be a different matter.
I think it would still be clearly racist, though obviously a bit less offensive. Without wanting to get into the argument of whether the slave trade was "genocide", nobody would say "if the nazis committed genocide how come there are so many whites in Europe?"
His genocide arguments were incredibly offensive.
His argument was that genocides don't exist if some of the people survive.
At the same time, I wouldn't personally use the word 'genocide' to describe the slave trade. It's too loaded a term and carries particular meanings that don't fit especially well with the reality of what happened.
'Ethnic cleansing' would have been a much more appropriate phrase, especially given colonial slavery involved the moving or suppression of First Nation peoples.
Practically speaking, is there any difference between genocide and ethnic cleansing?
Yes. Genocide is the deliberate attempt to wipe out a whole race. Ethnic cleansing is an attempt to empty an area of a particular race, which is more usually by moving them out by force (which also of course generally includes multiple deaths) usually followed by the repopulation of the area with members of a different race.
At its crudest the Holocaust was a genocide, the Sudeten German expulsion was ethnic cleansing.
Edit - I suppose you could say that all genocides are a form of ethnic cleansing, but not all ethnic cleansing meets the threshold for genocide.
Have a good morning.
Thanks. I realised my question didn't make my context clear. I accept ethnic cleansing can mean the forced displacement of a race, such as happened in Israel after independence, without the deliberate killing of those people. However, the slave trade like the Nazi Holocaust resulted in the inevitable deaths of millions, the difference being that the explicit elimination of a race through murder in the case of the Holocaust. I accept the intent might be an important distinction. However as I posited yesterday, if you took the gas chamber element away from the Nazi concentration camps, would it no longer be a genocide? The concentration camps were a key part of the German slave economy and as such maybe not so different from the African slave trade?
" if you took the gas chamber element away from the Nazi concentration camps, would it no longer be a genocide?" It would most definitely be genocide. The evidence on this point is very clear.
There were many concentration camps and there were ghettos. Only one concentration camp had gas chambers. In the other concentration camps there were many direct executions and and very many indirect executions (eg, insufficient nutrion for the forced labour and forced medical experiments). The deliberate killing of millions of people just because they were Jewish would still have occured.
Ooo, "cretinous bumbling wazzock". That is most certainly the edgier cousin of Ian's "great self regarding pudding in Downing St" from yesterday.
All great anyway. All an improvement on "Boris".
I refer to him as "Shagger". Remember that his second sacking was because he was shagging Wyatt behind his wife's back, knocked her up twice then lied to the PM about it. This time was shagging Symonds behind the same wife's back - having shagged at least one other in the meantime with yet another pregnancy. He's clearly a man of trust and honour. And detail - like how many children he has fathered.
Yes. Moral vacuum. Intellectual one too. Clever but lazy and shallow. However the brand is different. The brand is bit of a boyo, dynamic, amiable and relatable - and it does indeed "reach places other politicians cannot reach."
The reality is that this virus is a very long way from being beaten. Worldwide, we have gone from breaking 10m recorded cases last weekend to 11m yesterday. The number of new cases per day is accelerating. Given that it seems beyond us to quarantine arrivals further outbreaks are inevitable until we find a cure.
So what do we do? Do we keep a tight lockdown (and quarantine) in the hope we can eliminate the virus locally like NZ? Or do we accept that in a country like the UK that way lies economic ruin and almost certainly no success in any event?
We have no choice but to unwind the lockdown. We need our economy to start moving again. That includes pubs, restaurants and hairdressers. There is no magical solution or system that makes this safe. We really just have to accept that. The risk individually is very low but some will be unlucky and some of those will die. That's the way it is.
Products from Japan or South Korea would be stamped “Made in Britain”, under Boris Johnson’s plan to save the domestic car industry after Brexit.
The proposal is an attempt to prevent punishing tariffs driving away the likes of Nissan and Toyota, but will sound “ridiculous” to voters promised huge benefits from leaving the EU, one trade expert said.
It also means the UK is effectively asking the EU for the benefits of a customs union, a new analysis says – despite the prime minister insisting the UK is leaving the trading arrangement.
Would you seek an extension to lockdown and see even more devastation to jobs and peoples health, and how would you open our economy and when
But this is the same argument that caused us to delay locking down in the first place: what about the damage to jobs, the economy, and people's wellbeing? If we'd locked down earlier, there'd be tens of thousands fewer dead, and we wouldn't have had to lock down so hard or so long.
Exactly the same thing will be true if there ends up being a big second wave- any short-term gain in people going outside for a while will be at the cost not only of many deaths, but of having to lock down harder, for longer, again.
So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
Most pubs are not opening tomorrow
And most pub-goers are not going to the pub tomorrow.
For goodness sake! The 70% staying at home are not the ones we need worry about.
If it's going to make so little difference economically, which is your defence of the policy, why are we taking the risk?
Yeah, let's just keep everything shut forever until there is zero risk.
That is a failed argument, on your own terms.
You have said it is safe because hardly anyone will go out, which defeats the economic argument. I am saying those desperate to get to drinking establishments are the very people common sense tells us would those that would be best advised to stay away. A and E will be buzzing on Saturday, so I suppose some economic activity will be generated
Of course there is a balance, but the incidence of the virus is so low that the rewards likely outweigh the risk. If you required that the hospitality sector remain shut until there was no risk, it would probably be another year before they were open.
Yes it is a balance of risk, and yes we need to return to normal as best we can. However, the wizard wheeze gesture of opening the pubs on (American) Independence Day, which falls, this year on a Saturday is foolhardy in the extreme.
Why? If people want to go there are more hours in the day for them to do it. Otherwise it'd be a mad rush starting at 5pm.
Let's see how A and E copes on Saturday. Let's hope you are right and I am wrong.
They are probably better prepared than ever. No one is doing anything so admissions are way down!
Let's assume that is correct. It is still a poor justification for encouraging idiots to get rat-arsed.
Nobody is encouraging idiots but we just have to start opening our economy.
I would expect Starmer to be following a similar path to Boris but Boris has an army of remainers and the left who dislike him with a passion and that dislike takes away rational argument
Starmer , Boris. Why the difference in using surnames ?
So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
Most pubs are not opening tomorrow
That has the recipe for even greater chaos written all over it. Arriving at the pub on Saturday, only to find it closed, will raise frustration. Onto the next to find it open, but not allowing "the boys" in due to social distancing rules, well they'll just go home a little disappointed, won't they?
No no. Apparently 70% of people say they aren't ready to go to the pub yet, so the 30% determined to get shitfaced with the boys and make a nuisance of themselves and spread the pox will behave. Obviously.
Genuine question
Would you seek an extension to lockdown and see even more devastation to jobs and peoples health, and how would you open our economy and when
The cretinous bumbling wazzock has killed tens of thousands of people by mismanaging this pandemic. Having finally got on top of it and locked us down we started to reduce the numbers. But they are still orders of magnitude above numbers in countries not run by fools. We can't copy them and unlock yet because according to his government's own process we haven't got on top of it. Whats the point of saying "if x then y" back in May and then bin that off and tell people its their patriotic duty to drink when y hasn't happened?
As the Ferrari car crash interview detailed there are a lot of sectors they have kept locked down. So we need to keep locked down a few more bits to squash the virus instead of letting it surge back and do "whack-a-mole". "I'm sorry our actions have killed your father and that our mallet missed that particular mole" is NOT a strategy. You want to see what happens when you unlock too early? 10k new cases a day in Florida. Is that what you want here?
On the 2nd July, number of cases of COVID detected in Germany - 503 On the 2nd July, number of cases of COVID detected in UK - 576
7 day moving average for new cases on 2nd July UK: 792 Germany 419
It's not exactly an "order of magnitude" as has been presented by other posters this morning determined to see what they want to.
So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
Most pubs are not opening tomorrow
And most pub-goers are not going to the pub tomorrow.
For goodness sake! The 70% staying at home are not the ones we need worry about.
If it's going to make so little difference economically, which is your defence of the policy, why are we taking the risk?
Yeah, let's just keep everything shut forever until there is zero risk.
That is a failed argument, on your own terms.
You have said it is safe because hardly anyone will go out, which defeats the economic argument. I am saying those desperate to get to drinking establishments are the very people common sense tells us would those that would be best advised to stay away. A and E will be buzzing on Saturday, so I suppose some economic activity will be generated
Of course there is a balance, but the incidence of the virus is so low that the rewards likely outweigh the risk. If you required that the hospitality sector remain shut until there was no risk, it would probably be another year before they were open.
Yes it is a balance of risk, and yes we need to return to normal as best we can. However, the wizard wheeze gesture of opening the pubs on (American) Independence Day, which falls, this year on a Saturday is foolhardy in the extreme.
Why? If people want to go there are more hours in the day for them to do it. Otherwise it'd be a mad rush starting at 5pm.
Let's see how A and E copes on Saturday. Let's hope you are right and I am wrong.
They are probably better prepared than ever. No one is doing anything so admissions are way down!
Let's assume that is correct. It is still a poor justification for encouraging idiots to get rat-arsed.
Nobody is encouraging idiots but we just have to start opening our economy.
I would expect Starmer to be following a similar path to Boris but Boris has an army of remainers and the left who dislike him with a passion and that dislike takes away rational argument
Yes as demonstrated by Tory voters on here who argue that Schools are open when open means operating at 10%-20% capacity and doing nothing like what they used to do..
Schools are open but of course not operating at full capacity
BBC radio news at midnight tonight said: “…after racist comments by David Starkey”. They didn’t even bother to say “alleged racist comments”.
Allegedly, not alleged. It is (at best) the racist nature of the recorded comments that might be in doubt, not their existence given they are on video, so "allegedly racist" rather than "alleged ... comments". I doubt we'll see yet another Starkey television series on the Tudors.
A linguistic question
Starkey said “so many damn blacks survived”. It certainly indicates he has some pretty antediluvian views. But is the actual *comment* racist?
If not then aren’t you attacking someone for what they believe?
The other contexts when you might say, "why are there still so many damn < something >" are, I think, where the something is negative - so many damn slugs, so many damn midges, so many damn racists, etc.
So the implication from common usage of the word in the sentence is that the continued existence of black people despite slavery is a negative thing - clearly racist.
Yes, clearly racist.
Clearly racist and on camera. No need to use the word alleged or allegedly.
If he hadn't used the word damn it would be a different matter.
I think it would still be clearly racist, though obviously a bit less offensive. Without wanting to get into the argument of whether the slave trade was "genocide", nobody would say "if the nazis committed genocide how come there are so many whites in Europe?"
There weren't that many Jews left, though. The Nazis perpetrated a genocide against the Jewish people, not white people.
Which makes my point for me. I guess Starkey can easily imagine there is a difference between one kind of European and another, so one group of Europeans being killed is easily seen as genocide, but seems unable to imagine any differences between all black Africans. According to his logic there has never been any genocide anywhere in Africa because there are so many blacks still living in Africa. "There was no genocide in Rwanda because there are so many blacks in Africa." It's stupid, offensive and racist.
I'm not saying it wasn't racist or offensive, it was. My point was that the genocidebof the Holocaust was perpetrated against a specific people. I don't think slavery was targeted at a specific tribe or race, it was fairly random. Though I'm ready to be corrected.
Hitler wanted to eradicate Jews, I'm pretty sure that slave traders just wanted to make money, not eradicate black people.
Hmm it's probably complicated, but I always understood that certain ethnic groups were targeted in Africa (perhaps more by the African partners of the European slave traders), maybe someone has some expertise?
But I'm not really arguing about whether genocide happened or not. I'm saying Starkey's racist logic is that for a genocide to have happened, the entire black population of Africa would have had to be targeted.
As I said, I don't know if there was specific targeting, at least by the slave traders it doesn't seem like it, they probably just bought the slaves available.
Starkey's logic seems to stem from that, slavery was randomly targeted against black people in general so it couldn't have been genocide. I think that's probably correct but as I said, I actually don't know if a specific tribe wasn't targeted for being slaves or killed because they refused to be slaves.
How would you describe the actions of people like Tamerlane?
Mass murder. TBH, I don't think that genocide is worse than mass murder, it's just a particular form of mass murder.
The level of carnage in some of these cases is hard to comprehend. The population of Northern China fell from 30m to 9m, between 1211 and 1241, thank to the Mongol conquest. The An Lushan rebellion killed anywhere between 5% and 15% of the world's population in the eighth century.
So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
Most pubs are not opening tomorrow
That has the recipe for even greater chaos written all over it. Arriving at the pub on Saturday, only to find it closed, will raise frustration. Onto the next to find it open, but not allowing "the boys" in due to social distancing rules, well they'll just go home a little disappointed, won't they?
No no. Apparently 70% of people say they aren't ready to go to the pub yet, so the 30% determined to get shitfaced with the boys and make a nuisance of themselves and spread the pox will behave. Obviously.
Genuine question
Would you seek an extension to lockdown and see even more devastation to jobs and peoples health, and how would you open our economy and when
Well BigG. the defenders of the policy are saying, no one is going to the pub anyway, so it will be safe. So in that case, what is the point. It is just a grand gesture.
We can't open schools, but we can open pubs. I am not sure we have our priorities right.
Schools are open and have been all along
However, just how long do you think we can keep our economy closed and how many millions of jobs are you willing to lose in the process
Schools are not open - only in very limited situations (special needs, key workers and some years occasionally - for my children it's 2 hours a week per topic, for years 7-9 there is virtually nothing).
Many teachers, especially in primary schools have been working longer hours over the past few weeks. I part because they have to chase up individual children on their iPads etc.
Teachers are doing their best (and as you say probably working longer hours) but that isn't the same as schools being open - which is what BigG was implying - that statement is simply not true and it's a great hassle for a lot of people, not just children and teachers but also parents who are having to entertain children, teach them and work at the same time.
My sons school is in the private sector and has been educating it's students on line and at the same time educating pupils in the emergency sector
It does raise the questions why state schools have not done more on line tuition
So you are looking at your private school where all parents can easily provide online access and assume that everyone is in the same position...
Everything looks rosy when you have money and live in a large house with a large garden on the edge of a small (fairly wealth) town. The rest of the world isn't like that a lot of locals to you could testify.
So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
Most pubs are not opening tomorrow
And most pub-goers are not going to the pub tomorrow.
For goodness sake! The 70% staying at home are not the ones we need worry about.
If it's going to make so little difference economically, which is your defence of the policy, why are we taking the risk?
Yeah, let's just keep everything shut forever until there is zero risk.
That is a failed argument, on your own terms.
You have said it is safe because hardly anyone will go out, which defeats the economic argument. I am saying those desperate to get to drinking establishments are the very people common sense tells us would those that would be best advised to stay away. A and E will be buzzing on Saturday, so I suppose some economic activity will be generated
Of course there is a balance, but the incidence of the virus is so low that the rewards likely outweigh the risk. If you required that the hospitality sector remain shut until there was no risk, it would probably be another year before they were open.
Yes it is a balance of risk, and yes we need to return to normal as best we can. However, the wizard wheeze gesture of opening the pubs on (American) Independence Day, which falls, this year on a Saturday is foolhardy in the extreme.
Why? If people want to go there are more hours in the day for them to do it. Otherwise it'd be a mad rush starting at 5pm.
Let's see how A and E copes on Saturday. Let's hope you are right and I am wrong.
They are probably better prepared than ever. No one is doing anything so admissions are way down!
Let's assume that is correct. It is still a poor justification for encouraging idiots to get rat-arsed.
Nobody is encouraging idiots but we just have to start opening our economy.
I would expect Starmer to be following a similar path to Boris but Boris has an army of remainers and the left who dislike him with a passion and that dislike takes away rational argument
Starmer , Boris. Why the difference in using surnames ?
Because some people are known by their forename, some by the surname. Get over it.
The reality is that this virus is a very long way from being beaten. Worldwide, we have gone from breaking 10m recorded cases last weekend to 11m yesterday. The number of new cases per day is accelerating. Given that it seems beyond us to quarantine arrivals further outbreaks are inevitable until we find a cure.
So what do we do? Do we keep a tight lockdown (and quarantine) in the hope we can eliminate the virus locally like NZ? Or do we accept that in a country like the UK that way lies economic ruin and almost certainly no success in any event?
We have no choice but to unwind the lockdown. We need our economy to start moving again. That includes pubs, restaurants and hairdressers. There is no magical solution or system that makes this safe. We really just have to accept that. The risk individually is very low but some will be unlucky and some of those will die. That's the way it is.
Or we quarantine arrivals and continue most lockdown measures until we've got our shit together on test and trace, and our numbers low enough so that we can do that effectively.
So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
Most pubs are not opening tomorrow
And most pub-goers are not going to the pub tomorrow.
For goodness sake! The 70% staying at home are not the ones we need worry about.
If it's going to make so little difference economically, which is your defence of the policy, why are we taking the risk?
Yeah, let's just keep everything shut forever until there is zero risk.
That is a failed argument, on your own terms.
You have said it is safe because hardly anyone will go out, which defeats the economic argument. I am saying those desperate to get to drinking establishments are the very people common sense tells us would those that would be best advised to stay away. A and E will be buzzing on Saturday, so I suppose some economic activity will be generated
Of course there is a balance, but the incidence of the virus is so low that the rewards likely outweigh the risk. If you required that the hospitality sector remain shut until there was no risk, it would probably be another year before they were open.
Yes it is a balance of risk, and yes we need to return to normal as best we can. However, the wizard wheeze gesture of opening the pubs on (American) Independence Day, which falls, this year on a Saturday is foolhardy in the extreme.
Why? If people want to go there are more hours in the day for them to do it. Otherwise it'd be a mad rush starting at 5pm.
Let's see how A and E copes on Saturday. Let's hope you are right and I am wrong.
The reality is that this virus is a very long way from being beaten. Worldwide, we have gone from breaking 10m recorded cases last weekend to 11m yesterday. The number of new cases per day is accelerating. Given that it seems beyond us to quarantine arrivals further outbreaks are inevitable until we find a cure.
So what do we do? Do we keep a tight lockdown (and quarantine) in the hope we can eliminate the virus locally like NZ? Or do we accept that in a country like the UK that way lies economic ruin and almost certainly no success in any event?
We have no choice but to unwind the lockdown. We need our economy to start moving again. That includes pubs, restaurants and hairdressers. There is no magical solution or system that makes this safe. We really just have to accept that. The risk individually is very low but some will be unlucky and some of those will die. That's the way it is.
Or we quarantine arrivals and continue most lockdown measures until we've got our shit together on test and trace, and our numbers low enough so that we can do that effectively.
Of course the economy is a problem. Thousands of jobs going every day in retail and hospitality and this feels like only the start of it. We shouldn't be here as we should have broken the back of the virus like other have. But we are where we are. So what choices do we have?
1. Fuck it. Reopen everything like Trumpy loons have done in America. And in a few weeks watch us be like Florida. We'll not save the economy by killing people en-masse 2. A whack-a-mole reopening. Get out there and spend your sodding money. If you die then you should be supporting the government for all the things they have done. How to stay safe is up to you. 3. A tightly controlled reopening. You MUST wear a mask in buildings and on public transport with large summary fines for not doing so.
That the bumbling fool is doing 2 is no surprise. When the only detail he knows is what he made up and gets sacked for we knew this would be a problem. And 6 months from now the next financial calamity where no deal is a "very good option". That we can't possibly build recruit program and implement a physical border in 6 months is just detail he doen't understand. When the ports and trade and logistics immediately grind to a halt blaming the EU won't get him very far.
Why would we be like Florida? The number of deaths and new cases has been falling away sharply. Re-opening the shops did not lead to a surge in new cases.
So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
Most pubs are not opening tomorrow
And most pub-goers are not going to the pub tomorrow.
For goodness sake! The 70% staying at home are not the ones we need worry about.
If it's going to make so little difference economically, which is your defence of the policy, why are we taking the risk?
Yeah, let's just keep everything shut forever until there is zero risk.
That is a failed argument, on your own terms.
You have said it is safe because hardly anyone will go out, which defeats the economic argument. I am saying those desperate to get to drinking establishments are the very people common sense tells us would those that would be best advised to stay away. A and E will be buzzing on Saturday, so I suppose some economic activity will be generated
Of course there is a balance, but the incidence of the virus is so low that the rewards likely outweigh the risk. If you required that the hospitality sector remain shut until there was no risk, it would probably be another year before they were open.
Yes it is a balance of risk, and yes we need to return to normal as best we can. However, the wizard wheeze gesture of opening the pubs on (American) Independence Day, which falls, this year on a Saturday is foolhardy in the extreme.
Why? If people want to go there are more hours in the day for them to do it. Otherwise it'd be a mad rush starting at 5pm.
Let's see how A and E copes on Saturday. Let's hope you are right and I am wrong.
They are probably better prepared than ever. No one is doing anything so admissions are way down!
Let's assume that is correct. It is still a poor justification for encouraging idiots to get rat-arsed.
Nobody is encouraging idiots but we just have to start opening our economy.
I would expect Starmer to be following a similar path to Boris but Boris has an army of remainers and the left who dislike him with a passion and that dislike takes away rational argument
Starmer , Boris. Why the difference in using surnames ?
Boris and Starmer are the public recognisable names
So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
Most pubs are not opening tomorrow
And most pub-goers are not going to the pub tomorrow.
For goodness sake! The 70% staying at home are not the ones we need worry about.
If it's going to make so little difference economically, which is your defence of the policy, why are we taking the risk?
Yeah, let's just keep everything shut forever until there is zero risk.
That is a failed argument, on your own terms.
You have said it is safe because hardly anyone will go out, which defeats the economic argument. I am saying those desperate to get to drinking establishments are the very people common sense tells us would those that would be best advised to stay away. A and E will be buzzing on Saturday, so I suppose some economic activity will be generated
Of course there is a balance, but the incidence of the virus is so low that the rewards likely outweigh the risk. If you required that the hospitality sector remain shut until there was no risk, it would probably be another year before they were open.
Yes it is a balance of risk, and yes we need to return to normal as best we can. However, the wizard wheeze gesture of opening the pubs on (American) Independence Day, which falls, this year on a Saturday is foolhardy in the extreme.
Why? If people want to go there are more hours in the day for them to do it. Otherwise it'd be a mad rush starting at 5pm.
Let's see how A and E copes on Saturday. Let's hope you are right and I am wrong.
I agree with the concept of "black lives matter", I don't agree with the organisation "Black Lives Matter" or "Black Lives Matter UK". That's what I think Keir was getting at.
He's making hard work of saying what Nigel Farage said a month ago
So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
Most pubs are not opening tomorrow
And most pub-goers are not going to the pub tomorrow.
For goodness sake! The 70% staying at home are not the ones we need worry about.
If it's going to make so little difference economically, which is your defence of the policy, why are we taking the risk?
Yeah, let's just keep everything shut forever until there is zero risk.
That is a failed argument, on your own terms.
You have said it is safe because hardly anyone will go out, which defeats the economic argument. I am saying those desperate to get to drinking establishments are the very people common sense tells us would those that would be best advised to stay away. A and E will be buzzing on Saturday, so I suppose some economic activity will be generated
Of course there is a balance, but the incidence of the virus is so low that the rewards likely outweigh the risk. If you required that the hospitality sector remain shut until there was no risk, it would probably be another year before they were open.
Yes it is a balance of risk, and yes we need to return to normal as best we can. However, the wizard wheeze gesture of opening the pubs on (American) Independence Day, which falls, this year on a Saturday is foolhardy in the extreme.
Why? If people want to go there are more hours in the day for them to do it. Otherwise it'd be a mad rush starting at 5pm.
Let's see how A and E copes on Saturday. Let's hope you are right and I am wrong.
They are probably better prepared than ever. No one is doing anything so admissions are way down!
Let's assume that is correct. It is still a poor justification for encouraging idiots to get rat-arsed.
Nobody is encouraging idiots but we just have to start opening our economy.
I would expect Starmer to be following a similar path to Boris but Boris has an army of remainers and the left who dislike him with a passion and that dislike takes away rational argument
Starmer , Boris. Why the difference in using surnames ?
Because some people are known by their forename, some by the surname. Get over it.
Of course the economy is a problem. Thousands of jobs going every day in retail and hospitality and this feels like only the start of it. We shouldn't be here as we should have broken the back of the virus like other have. But we are where we are. So what choices do we have?
1. Fuck it. Reopen everything like Trumpy loons have done in America. And in a few weeks watch us be like Florida. We'll not save the economy by killing people en-masse 2. A whack-a-mole reopening. Get out there and spend your sodding money. If you die then you should be supporting the government for all the things they have done. How to stay safe is up to you. 3. A tightly controlled reopening. You MUST wear a mask in buildings and on public transport with large summary fines for not doing so.
That the bumbling fool is doing 2 is no surprise. When the only detail he knows is what he made up and gets sacked for we knew this would be a problem. And 6 months from now the next financial calamity where no deal is a "very good option". That we can't possibly build recruit program and implement a physical border in 6 months is just detail he doen't understand. When the ports and trade and logistics immediately grind to a halt blaming the EU won't get him very far.
Why would we be like Florida? The number of deaths and new cases has been falling away sharply. Re-opening the shops did not lead to a surge in new cases.
So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
Most pubs are not opening tomorrow
And most pub-goers are not going to the pub tomorrow.
For goodness sake! The 70% staying at home are not the ones we need worry about.
If it's going to make so little difference economically, which is your defence of the policy, why are we taking the risk?
Yeah, let's just keep everything shut forever until there is zero risk.
That is a failed argument, on your own terms.
You have said it is safe because hardly anyone will go out, which defeats the economic argument. I am saying those desperate to get to drinking establishments are the very people common sense tells us would those that would be best advised to stay away. A and E will be buzzing on Saturday, so I suppose some economic activity will be generated
Of course there is a balance, but the incidence of the virus is so low that the rewards likely outweigh the risk. If you required that the hospitality sector remain shut until there was no risk, it would probably be another year before they were open.
Yes it is a balance of risk, and yes we need to return to normal as best we can. However, the wizard wheeze gesture of opening the pubs on (American) Independence Day, which falls, this year on a Saturday is foolhardy in the extreme.
Why? If people want to go there are more hours in the day for them to do it. Otherwise it'd be a mad rush starting at 5pm.
Let's see how A and E copes on Saturday. Let's hope you are right and I am wrong.
They are probably better prepared than ever. No one is doing anything so admissions are way down!
Let's assume that is correct. It is still a poor justification for encouraging idiots to get rat-arsed.
Nobody is encouraging idiots but we just have to start opening our economy.
I would expect Starmer to be following a similar path to Boris but Boris has an army of remainers and the left who dislike him with a passion and that dislike takes away rational argument
Starmer , Boris. Why the difference in using surnames ?
Especially as it's Sir Keir if one is being remotely polite. Or SKS for brevity.
So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
Most pubs are not opening tomorrow
And most pub-goers are not going to the pub tomorrow.
For goodness sake! The 70% staying at home are not the ones we need worry about.
If it's going to make so little difference economically, which is your defence of the policy, why are we taking the risk?
Yeah, let's just keep everything shut forever until there is zero risk.
That is a failed argument, on your own terms.
You have said it is safe because hardly anyone will go out, which defeats the economic argument. I am saying those desperate to get to drinking establishments are the very people common sense tells us would those that would be best advised to stay away. A and E will be buzzing on Saturday, so I suppose some economic activity will be generated
Of course there is a balance, but the incidence of the virus is so low that the rewards likely outweigh the risk. If you required that the hospitality sector remain shut until there was no risk, it would probably be another year before they were open.
Yes it is a balance of risk, and yes we need to return to normal as best we can. However, the wizard wheeze gesture of opening the pubs on (American) Independence Day, which falls, this year on a Saturday is foolhardy in the extreme.
Why? If people want to go there are more hours in the day for them to do it. Otherwise it'd be a mad rush starting at 5pm.
Let's see how A and E copes on Saturday. Let's hope you are right and I am wrong.
They are probably better prepared than ever. No one is doing anything so admissions are way down!
Let's assume that is correct. It is still a poor justification for encouraging idiots to get rat-arsed.
Nobody is encouraging idiots but we just have to start opening our economy.
I would expect Starmer to be following a similar path to Boris but Boris has an army of remainers and the left who dislike him with a passion and that dislike takes away rational argument
Starmer , Boris. Why the difference in using surnames ?
Boris and Starmer are the public recognisable names
No they are not it’s in built positive Johnson bias, it should be consistent whatever you choose to call them.
The reality is that this virus is a very long way from being beaten. Worldwide, we have gone from breaking 10m recorded cases last weekend to 11m yesterday. The number of new cases per day is accelerating. Given that it seems beyond us to quarantine arrivals further outbreaks are inevitable until we find a cure.
So what do we do? Do we keep a tight lockdown (and quarantine) in the hope we can eliminate the virus locally like NZ? Or do we accept that in a country like the UK that way lies economic ruin and almost certainly no success in any event?
We have no choice but to unwind the lockdown. We need our economy to start moving again. That includes pubs, restaurants and hairdressers. There is no magical solution or system that makes this safe. We really just have to accept that. The risk individually is very low but some will be unlucky and some of those will die. That's the way it is.
Or we quarantine arrivals and continue most lockdown measures until we've got our shit together on test and trace, and our numbers low enough so that we can do that effectively.
We've only had quarantine for a few weeks and we are already giving it up with the majority of countries that we actually go to or people come from (apart from the US). We have had months to set up an effective trace, test and isolate system. It hasn't been done so far as I can see. We are incurring public debt at the rate of £50bn a month. More businesses are collapsing every day, Café Rouge yesterday. How long are you prepared to wait?
So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
Most pubs are not opening tomorrow
And most pub-goers are not going to the pub tomorrow.
For goodness sake! The 70% staying at home are not the ones we need worry about.
If it's going to make so little difference economically, which is your defence of the policy, why are we taking the risk?
Yeah, let's just keep everything shut forever until there is zero risk.
That is a failed argument, on your own terms.
You have said it is safe because hardly anyone will go out, which defeats the economic argument. I am saying those desperate to get to drinking establishments are the very people common sense tells us would those that would be best advised to stay away. A and E will be buzzing on Saturday, so I suppose some economic activity will be generated
Of course there is a balance, but the incidence of the virus is so low that the rewards likely outweigh the risk. If you required that the hospitality sector remain shut until there was no risk, it would probably be another year before they were open.
Yes it is a balance of risk, and yes we need to return to normal as best we can. However, the wizard wheeze gesture of opening the pubs on (American) Independence Day, which falls, this year on a Saturday is foolhardy in the extreme.
Why? If people want to go there are more hours in the day for them to do it. Otherwise it'd be a mad rush starting at 5pm.
Let's see how A and E copes on Saturday. Let's hope you are right and I am wrong.
Does anyone go to A & E these days
No. Because the pubs are closed.
What fraction of A&E admissions are from pubs?
Possibly a large percentage on Saturday night. We shall see
So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
Most pubs are not opening tomorrow
That has the recipe for even greater chaos written all over it. Arriving at the pub on Saturday, only to find it closed, will raise frustration. Onto the next to find it open, but not allowing "the boys" in due to social distancing rules, well they'll just go home a little disappointed, won't they?
No no. Apparently 70% of people say they aren't ready to go to the pub yet, so the 30% determined to get shitfaced with the boys and make a nuisance of themselves and spread the pox will behave. Obviously.
Genuine question
Would you seek an extension to lockdown and see even more devastation to jobs and peoples health, and how would you open our economy and when
The cretinous bumbling wazzock has killed tens of thousands of people by mismanaging this pandemic. Having finally got on top of it and locked us down we started to reduce the numbers. But they are still orders of magnitude above numbers in countries not run by fools. We can't copy them and unlock yet because according to his government's own process we haven't got on top of it. Whats the point of saying "if x then y" back in May and then bin that off and tell people its their patriotic duty to drink when y hasn't happened?
As the Ferrari car crash interview detailed there are a lot of sectors they have kept locked down. So we need to keep locked down a few more bits to squash the virus instead of letting it surge back and do "whack-a-mole". "I'm sorry our actions have killed your father and that our mallet missed that particular mole" is NOT a strategy. You want to see what happens when you unlock too early? 10k new cases a day in Florida. Is that what you want here?
So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
Most pubs are not opening tomorrow
That has the recipe for even greater chaos written all over it. Arriving at the pub on Saturday, only to find it closed, will raise frustration. Onto the next to find it open, but not allowing "the boys" in due to social distancing rules, well they'll just go home a little disappointed, won't they?
No no. Apparently 70% of people say they aren't ready to go to the pub yet, so the 30% determined to get shitfaced with the boys and make a nuisance of themselves and spread the pox will behave. Obviously.
Genuine question
Would you seek an extension to lockdown and see even more devastation to jobs and peoples health, and how would you open our economy and when
Well BigG. the defenders of the policy are saying, no one is going to the pub anyway, so it will be safe. So in that case, what is the point. It is just a grand gesture.
We can't open schools, but we can open pubs. I am not sure we have our priorities right.
Schools are open and have been all along
However, just how long do you think we can keep our economy closed and how many millions of jobs are you willing to lose in the process
Schools are not open - only in very limited situations (special needs, key workers and some years occasionally - for my children it's 2 hours a week per topic, for years 7-9 there is virtually nothing).
Many teachers, especially in primary schools have been working longer hours over the past few weeks. I part because they have to chase up individual children on their iPads etc.
Teachers are doing their best (and as you say probably working longer hours) but that isn't the same as schools being open - which is what BigG was implying - that statement is simply not true and it's a great hassle for a lot of people, not just children and teachers but also parents who are having to entertain children, teach them and work at the same time.
My sons school is in the private sector and has been educating it's students on line and at the same time educating pupils in the emergency sector
It does raise the questions why state schools have not done more on line tuition
So you are looking at your private school where all parents can easily provide online access and assume that everyone is in the same position...
Everything looks rosy when you have money and live in a large house with a large garden on the edge of a small (fairly wealth) town. The rest of the world isn't like that a lot of locals to you could testify.
I do not disagree but my sons school is taking children from the state sector during this crisis and the questioned posed is why are state schools not using more online tuition
So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
Most pubs are not opening tomorrow
And most pub-goers are not going to the pub tomorrow.
For goodness sake! The 70% staying at home are not the ones we need worry about.
If it's going to make so little difference economically, which is your defence of the policy, why are we taking the risk?
Yeah, let's just keep everything shut forever until there is zero risk.
That is a failed argument, on your own terms.
You have said it is safe because hardly anyone will go out, which defeats the economic argument. I am saying those desperate to get to drinking establishments are the very people common sense tells us would those that would be best advised to stay away. A and E will be buzzing on Saturday, so I suppose some economic activity will be generated
Of course there is a balance, but the incidence of the virus is so low that the rewards likely outweigh the risk. If you required that the hospitality sector remain shut until there was no risk, it would probably be another year before they were open.
Yes it is a balance of risk, and yes we need to return to normal as best we can. However, the wizard wheeze gesture of opening the pubs on (American) Independence Day, which falls, this year on a Saturday is foolhardy in the extreme.
Why? If people want to go there are more hours in the day for them to do it. Otherwise it'd be a mad rush starting at 5pm.
Let's see how A and E copes on Saturday. Let's hope you are right and I am wrong.
They are probably better prepared than ever. No one is doing anything so admissions are way down!
Let's assume that is correct. It is still a poor justification for encouraging idiots to get rat-arsed.
Nobody is encouraging idiots but we just have to start opening our economy.
I would expect Starmer to be following a similar path to Boris but Boris has an army of remainers and the left who dislike him with a passion and that dislike takes away rational argument
Starmer , Boris. Why the difference in using surnames ?
Because some people are known by their forename, some by the surname. Get over it.
A bit more to it than that. "Boris" is a brand - and a very powerful one.
So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
Most pubs are not opening tomorrow
And most pub-goers are not going to the pub tomorrow.
For goodness sake! The 70% staying at home are not the ones we need worry about.
If it's going to make so little difference economically, which is your defence of the policy, why are we taking the risk?
Yeah, let's just keep everything shut forever until there is zero risk.
That is a failed argument, on your own terms.
You have said it is safe because hardly anyone will go out, which defeats the economic argument. I am saying those desperate to get to drinking establishments are the very people common sense tells us would those that would be best advised to stay away. A and E will be buzzing on Saturday, so I suppose some economic activity will be generated
Of course there is a balance, but the incidence of the virus is so low that the rewards likely outweigh the risk. If you required that the hospitality sector remain shut until there was no risk, it would probably be another year before they were open.
Yes it is a balance of risk, and yes we need to return to normal as best we can. However, the wizard wheeze gesture of opening the pubs on (American) Independence Day, which falls, this year on a Saturday is foolhardy in the extreme.
Why? If people want to go there are more hours in the day for them to do it. Otherwise it'd be a mad rush starting at 5pm.
Let's see how A and E copes on Saturday. Let's hope you are right and I am wrong.
They are probably better prepared than ever. No one is doing anything so admissions are way down!
Let's assume that is correct. It is still a poor justification for encouraging idiots to get rat-arsed.
Nobody is encouraging idiots but we just have to start opening our economy.
I would expect Starmer to be following a similar path to Boris but Boris has an army of remainers and the left who dislike him with a passion and that dislike takes away rational argument
Starmer , Boris. Why the difference in using surnames ?
Because some people are known by their forename, some by the surname. Get over it.
Sir Keir?
That's not a brand. And I don't see it becoming one.
So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
Most pubs are not opening tomorrow
And most pub-goers are not going to the pub tomorrow.
For goodness sake! The 70% staying at home are not the ones we need worry about.
If it's going to make so little difference economically, which is your defence of the policy, why are we taking the risk?
Yeah, let's just keep everything shut forever until there is zero risk.
That is a failed argument, on your own terms.
You have said it is safe because hardly anyone will go out, which defeats the economic argument. I am saying those desperate to get to drinking establishments are the very people common sense tells us would those that would be best advised to stay away. A and E will be buzzing on Saturday, so I suppose some economic activity will be generated
Of course there is a balance, but the incidence of the virus is so low that the rewards likely outweigh the risk. If you required that the hospitality sector remain shut until there was no risk, it would probably be another year before they were open.
Yes it is a balance of risk, and yes we need to return to normal as best we can. However, the wizard wheeze gesture of opening the pubs on (American) Independence Day, which falls, this year on a Saturday is foolhardy in the extreme.
Why? If people want to go there are more hours in the day for them to do it. Otherwise it'd be a mad rush starting at 5pm.
Let's see how A and E copes on Saturday. Let's hope you are right and I am wrong.
They are probably better prepared than ever. No one is doing anything so admissions are way down!
Let's assume that is correct. It is still a poor justification for encouraging idiots to get rat-arsed.
Nobody is encouraging idiots but we just have to start opening our economy.
I would expect Starmer to be following a similar path to Boris but Boris has an army of remainers and the left who dislike him with a passion and that dislike takes away rational argument
Starmer , Boris. Why the difference in using surnames ?
Because some people are known by their forename, some by the surname. Get over it.
A bit more to it than that. "Boris" is a brand - and a very powerful one.
You could follow DuraAce`s example and just call him "the fat fuck", kinabalu.
So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
Most pubs are not opening tomorrow
That has the recipe for even greater chaos written all over it. Arriving at the pub on Saturday, only to find it closed, will raise frustration. Onto the next to find it open, but not allowing "the boys" in due to social distancing rules, well they'll just go home a little disappointed, won't they?
No no. Apparently 70% of people say they aren't ready to go to the pub yet, so the 30% determined to get shitfaced with the boys and make a nuisance of themselves and spread the pox will behave. Obviously.
Genuine question
Would you seek an extension to lockdown and see even more devastation to jobs and peoples health, and how would you open our economy and when
Well BigG. the defenders of the policy are saying, no one is going to the pub anyway, so it will be safe. So in that case, what is the point. It is just a grand gesture.
We can't open schools, but we can open pubs. I am not sure we have our priorities right.
Schools are open and have been all along
However, just how long do you think we can keep our economy closed and how many millions of jobs are you willing to lose in the process
Schools are not open - only in very limited situations (special needs, key workers and some years occasionally - for my children it's 2 hours a week per topic, for years 7-9 there is virtually nothing).
Many teachers, especially in primary schools have been working longer hours over the past few weeks. I part because they have to chase up individual children on their iPads etc.
Teachers are doing their best (and as you say probably working longer hours) but that isn't the same as schools being open - which is what BigG was implying - that statement is simply not true and it's a great hassle for a lot of people, not just children and teachers but also parents who are having to entertain children, teach them and work at the same time.
My sons school is in the private sector and has been educating it's students on line and at the same time educating pupils in the emergency sector
It does raise the questions why state schools have not done more on line tuition
So you are looking at your private school where all parents can easily provide online access and assume that everyone is in the same position...
Everything looks rosy when you have money and live in a large house with a large garden on the edge of a small (fairly wealth) town. The rest of the world isn't like that a lot of locals to you could testify.
I do not disagree but my sons school is taking children from the state sector during this crisis and the questioned posed is why are state schools not using more online tuition
Because they won’t have a queue of parents asking for refunds if they don’t?
So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
Most pubs are not opening tomorrow
And most pub-goers are not going to the pub tomorrow.
For goodness sake! The 70% staying at home are not the ones we need worry about.
If it's going to make so little difference economically, which is your defence of the policy, why are we taking the risk?
Yeah, let's just keep everything shut forever until there is zero risk.
That is a failed argument, on your own terms.
You have said it is safe because hardly anyone will go out, which defeats the economic argument. I am saying those desperate to get to drinking establishments are the very people common sense tells us would those that would be best advised to stay away. A and E will be buzzing on Saturday, so I suppose some economic activity will be generated
Of course there is a balance, but the incidence of the virus is so low that the rewards likely outweigh the risk. If you required that the hospitality sector remain shut until there was no risk, it would probably be another year before they were open.
Yes it is a balance of risk, and yes we need to return to normal as best we can. However, the wizard wheeze gesture of opening the pubs on (American) Independence Day, which falls, this year on a Saturday is foolhardy in the extreme.
Why? If people want to go there are more hours in the day for them to do it. Otherwise it'd be a mad rush starting at 5pm.
Let's see how A and E copes on Saturday. Let's hope you are right and I am wrong.
My sons school is in the private sector and has been educating it's students on line and at the same time educating pupils in the emergency sector
It does raise the questions why state schools have not done more on line tuition
So you are looking at your private school where all parents can easily provide online access and assume that everyone is in the same position...
Everything looks rosy when you have money and live in a large house with a large garden on the edge of a small (fairly wealth) town. The rest of the world isn't like that a lot of locals to you could testify.
Size of the private school, size of classes, number of teaching and support staff, availability of computers at student houses / school for loan etc etc etc.
Why haven't state schools done more online tuition? On the laptops their students didn't have and the government finally started to supply a few weeks ago in limited numbers...
So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
Most pubs are not opening tomorrow
And most pub-goers are not going to the pub tomorrow.
For goodness sake! The 70% staying at home are not the ones we need worry about.
If it's going to make so little difference economically, which is your defence of the policy, why are we taking the risk?
Yeah, let's just keep everything shut forever until there is zero risk.
That is a failed argument, on your own terms.
You have said it is safe because hardly anyone will go out, which defeats the economic argument. I am saying those desperate to get to drinking establishments are the very people common sense tells us would those that would be best advised to stay away. A and E will be buzzing on Saturday, so I suppose some economic activity will be generated
Of course there is a balance, but the incidence of the virus is so low that the rewards likely outweigh the risk. If you required that the hospitality sector remain shut until there was no risk, it would probably be another year before they were open.
Yes it is a balance of risk, and yes we need to return to normal as best we can. However, the wizard wheeze gesture of opening the pubs on (American) Independence Day, which falls, this year on a Saturday is foolhardy in the extreme.
Why? If people want to go there are more hours in the day for them to do it. Otherwise it'd be a mad rush starting at 5pm.
Let's see how A and E copes on Saturday. Let's hope you are right and I am wrong.
They are probably better prepared than ever. No one is doing anything so admissions are way down!
Let's assume that is correct. It is still a poor justification for encouraging idiots to get rat-arsed.
Nobody is encouraging idiots but we just have to start opening our economy.
I would expect Starmer to be following a similar path to Boris but Boris has an army of remainers and the left who dislike him with a passion and that dislike takes away rational argument
Starmer , Boris. Why the difference in using surnames ?
Boris and Starmer are the public recognisable names
Yes, although I think some people do generally refer to him as Keir, or Sir Keir. It's one of those things people get very sensitive about because they think people are incredibly stupid. 'Don't play into Boris's hands you sheeple' patronising atttiude.
Of course the economy is a problem. Thousands of jobs going every day in retail and hospitality and this feels like only the start of it. We shouldn't be here as we should have broken the back of the virus like other have. But we are where we are. So what choices do we have?
1. Fuck it. Reopen everything like Trumpy loons have done in America. And in a few weeks watch us be like Florida. We'll not save the economy by killing people en-masse 2. A whack-a-mole reopening. Get out there and spend your sodding money. If you die then you should be supporting the government for all the things they have done. How to stay safe is up to you. 3. A tightly controlled reopening. You MUST wear a mask in buildings and on public transport with large summary fines for not doing so.
That the bumbling fool is doing 2 is no surprise. When the only detail he knows is what he made up and gets sacked for we knew this would be a problem. And 6 months from now the next financial calamity where no deal is a "very good option". That we can't possibly build recruit program and implement a physical border in 6 months is just detail he doen't understand. When the ports and trade and logistics immediately grind to a halt blaming the EU won't get him very far.
Why would we be like Florida? The number of deaths and new cases has been falling away sharply. Re-opening the shops did not lead to a surge in new cases.
A good article on the extreme unlikelihood of Trump pulling out of the race:
No, Trump Isn’t Going to Drop Out https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/07/01/no-trump-isnt-going-to-drop-out-347509 ...With this rationalization in his back pocket, there’s no reason for Trump to forgo any chance whatever of remaining the most talked-about man on the planet for the next four years by dropping out based on early summer polling.
The anonymous Republicans chattering about this scenario surely are wish-casting and assume some other—any other—GOP presidential candidate would be better for the party’s chances. This, too, is doubtful.
How would the great drop-and-switch even work? The party would be implicitly conceding that the incumbent Republican president was such a disaster that he couldn’t even run for a second term—and then turn around and ask voters for four more years of yet another Republican president.
One of the points of this exercise would be to repudiate Trump, but how could the party plausibly do that after loyally and enthusiastically backing him for four years?...
So the chances of his getting pushed aside are also extremely low.
So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
Most pubs are not opening tomorrow
And most pub-goers are not going to the pub tomorrow.
For goodness sake! The 70% staying at home are not the ones we need worry about.
If it's going to make so little difference economically, which is your defence of the policy, why are we taking the risk?
Yeah, let's just keep everything shut forever until there is zero risk.
That is a failed argument, on your own terms.
You have said it is safe because hardly anyone will go out, which defeats the economic argument. I am saying those desperate to get to drinking establishments are the very people common sense tells us would those that would be best advised to stay away. A and E will be buzzing on Saturday, so I suppose some economic activity will be generated
Of course there is a balance, but the incidence of the virus is so low that the rewards likely outweigh the risk. If you required that the hospitality sector remain shut until there was no risk, it would probably be another year before they were open.
Yes it is a balance of risk, and yes we need to return to normal as best we can. However, the wizard wheeze gesture of opening the pubs on (American) Independence Day, which falls, this year on a Saturday is foolhardy in the extreme.
Why? If people want to go there are more hours in the day for them to do it. Otherwise it'd be a mad rush starting at 5pm.
Let's see how A and E copes on Saturday. Let's hope you are right and I am wrong.
They are probably better prepared than ever. No one is doing anything so admissions are way down!
Let's assume that is correct. It is still a poor justification for encouraging idiots to get rat-arsed.
Nobody is encouraging idiots but we just have to start opening our economy.
I would expect Starmer to be following a similar path to Boris but Boris has an army of remainers and the left who dislike him with a passion and that dislike takes away rational argument
Starmer , Boris. Why the difference in using surnames ?
Because some people are known by their forename, some by the surname. Get over it.
A bit more to it than that. "Boris" is a brand - and a very powerful one.
An increasingly tarnished one. It will eventually become synonymous with being lazy and ineffectual. Parents in future will say to their teenagers " come on Boris get out of bed and do something useful"
Of course the economy is a problem. Thousands of jobs going every day in retail and hospitality and this feels like only the start of it. We shouldn't be here as we should have broken the back of the virus like other have. But we are where we are. So what choices do we have?
1. Fuck it. Reopen everything like Trumpy loons have done in America. And in a few weeks watch us be like Florida. We'll not save the economy by killing people en-masse 2. A whack-a-mole reopening. Get out there and spend your sodding money. If you die then you should be supporting the government for all the things they have done. How to stay safe is up to you. 3. A tightly controlled reopening. You MUST wear a mask in buildings and on public transport with large summary fines for not doing so.
That the bumbling fool is doing 2 is no surprise. When the only detail he knows is what he made up and gets sacked for we knew this would be a problem. And 6 months from now the next financial calamity where no deal is a "very good option". That we can't possibly build recruit program and implement a physical border in 6 months is just detail he doen't understand. When the ports and trade and logistics immediately grind to a halt blaming the EU won't get him very far.
Why would we be like Florida? The number of deaths and new cases has been falling away sharply. Re-opening the shops did not lead to a surge in new cases.
So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
Most pubs are not opening tomorrow
And most pub-goers are not going to the pub tomorrow.
For goodness sake! The 70% staying at home are not the ones we need worry about.
If it's going to make so little difference economically, which is your defence of the policy, why are we taking the risk?
Yeah, let's just keep everything shut forever until there is zero risk.
That is a failed argument, on your own terms.
You have said it is safe because hardly anyone will go out, which defeats the economic argument. I am saying those desperate to get to drinking establishments are the very people common sense tells us would those that would be best advised to stay away. A and E will be buzzing on Saturday, so I suppose some economic activity will be generated
Of course there is a balance, but the incidence of the virus is so low that the rewards likely outweigh the risk. If you required that the hospitality sector remain shut until there was no risk, it would probably be another year before they were open.
Yes it is a balance of risk, and yes we need to return to normal as best we can. However, the wizard wheeze gesture of opening the pubs on (American) Independence Day, which falls, this year on a Saturday is foolhardy in the extreme.
Why? If people want to go there are more hours in the day for them to do it. Otherwise it'd be a mad rush starting at 5pm.
Let's see how A and E copes on Saturday. Let's hope you are right and I am wrong.
Does anyone go to A & E these days
No. Because the pubs are closed.
What fraction of A&E admissions are from pubs?
Possibly a large percentage on Saturday night. We shall see
Good morning.
Tired: Standing on doorstep, clapping NHS workers, tears of gratitude rolling down your cheeks.
Wired: Punching NHS worker in A+E because you are too drunk to see straight.
So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
Most pubs are not opening tomorrow
And most pub-goers are not going to the pub tomorrow.
For goodness sake! The 70% staying at home are not the ones we need worry about.
If it's going to make so little difference economically, which is your defence of the policy, why are we taking the risk?
Yeah, let's just keep everything shut forever until there is zero risk.
That is a failed argument, on your own terms.
You have said it is safe because hardly anyone will go out, which defeats the economic argument. I am saying those desperate to get to drinking establishments are the very people common sense tells us would those that would be best advised to stay away. A and E will be buzzing on Saturday, so I suppose some economic activity will be generated
Of course there is a balance, but the incidence of the virus is so low that the rewards likely outweigh the risk. If you required that the hospitality sector remain shut until there was no risk, it would probably be another year before they were open.
Yes it is a balance of risk, and yes we need to return to normal as best we can. However, the wizard wheeze gesture of opening the pubs on (American) Independence Day, which falls, this year on a Saturday is foolhardy in the extreme.
Why? If people want to go there are more hours in the day for them to do it. Otherwise it'd be a mad rush starting at 5pm.
Let's see how A and E copes on Saturday. Let's hope you are right and I am wrong.
They are probably better prepared than ever. No one is doing anything so admissions are way down!
Let's assume that is correct. It is still a poor justification for encouraging idiots to get rat-arsed.
Nobody is encouraging idiots but we just have to start opening our economy.
I would expect Starmer to be following a similar path to Boris but Boris has an army of remainers and the left who dislike him with a passion and that dislike takes away rational argument
Starmer , Boris. Why the difference in using surnames ?
Because some people are known by their forename, some by the surname. Get over it.
A bit more to it than that. "Boris" is a brand - and a very powerful one.
Remember 'Not Flash, Just Gordon'?
It's not Boris' fault that he can actually do branding...
Products from Japan or South Korea would be stamped “Made in Britain”, under Boris Johnson’s plan to save the domestic car industry after Brexit.
The proposal is an attempt to prevent punishing tariffs driving away the likes of Nissan and Toyota, but will sound “ridiculous” to voters promised huge benefits from leaving the EU, one trade expert said.
It also means the UK is effectively asking the EU for the benefits of a customs union, a new analysis says – despite the prime minister insisting the UK is leaving the trading arrangement.
So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
Most pubs are not opening tomorrow
And most pub-goers are not going to the pub tomorrow.
For goodness sake! The 70% staying at home are not the ones we need worry about.
If it's going to make so little difference economically, which is your defence of the policy, why are we taking the risk?
Yeah, let's just keep everything shut forever until there is zero risk.
That is a failed argument, on your own terms.
You have said it is safe because hardly anyone will go out, which defeats the economic argument. I am saying those desperate to get to drinking establishments are the very people common sense tells us would those that would be best advised to stay away. A and E will be buzzing on Saturday, so I suppose some economic activity will be generated
Of course there is a balance, but the incidence of the virus is so low that the rewards likely outweigh the risk. If you required that the hospitality sector remain shut until there was no risk, it would probably be another year before they were open.
Yes it is a balance of risk, and yes we need to return to normal as best we can. However, the wizard wheeze gesture of opening the pubs on (American) Independence Day, which falls, this year on a Saturday is foolhardy in the extreme.
Why? If people want to go there are more hours in the day for them to do it. Otherwise it'd be a mad rush starting at 5pm.
Let's see how A and E copes on Saturday. Let's hope you are right and I am wrong.
They are probably better prepared than ever. No one is doing anything so admissions are way down!
Let's assume that is correct. It is still a poor justification for encouraging idiots to get rat-arsed.
Nobody is encouraging idiots but we just have to start opening our economy.
I would expect Starmer to be following a similar path to Boris but Boris has an army of remainers and the left who dislike him with a passion and that dislike takes away rational argument
Starmer , Boris. Why the difference in using surnames ?
Boris and Starmer are the public recognisable names
No they are not it’s in built positive Johnson bias, it should be consistent whatever you choose to call them.
Boris is Boris and as much as some want to resile from that it will not happen
He will always be Boris in the public's perception
So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
Most pubs are not opening tomorrow
And most pub-goers are not going to the pub tomorrow.
For goodness sake! The 70% staying at home are not the ones we need worry about.
If it's going to make so little difference economically, which is your defence of the policy, why are we taking the risk?
Yeah, let's just keep everything shut forever until there is zero risk.
That is a failed argument, on your own terms.
You have said it is safe because hardly anyone will go out, which defeats the economic argument. I am saying those desperate to get to drinking establishments are the very people common sense tells us would those that would be best advised to stay away. A and E will be buzzing on Saturday, so I suppose some economic activity will be generated
Of course there is a balance, but the incidence of the virus is so low that the rewards likely outweigh the risk. If you required that the hospitality sector remain shut until there was no risk, it would probably be another year before they were open.
Yes it is a balance of risk, and yes we need to return to normal as best we can. However, the wizard wheeze gesture of opening the pubs on (American) Independence Day, which falls, this year on a Saturday is foolhardy in the extreme.
Why? If people want to go there are more hours in the day for them to do it. Otherwise it'd be a mad rush starting at 5pm.
Let's see how A and E copes on Saturday. Let's hope you are right and I am wrong.
They are probably better prepared than ever. No one is doing anything so admissions are way down!
Let's assume that is correct. It is still a poor justification for encouraging idiots to get rat-arsed.
Nobody is encouraging idiots but we just have to start opening our economy.
I would expect Starmer to be following a similar path to Boris but Boris has an army of remainers and the left who dislike him with a passion and that dislike takes away rational argument
Starmer , Boris. Why the difference in using surnames ?
Boris and Starmer are the public recognisable names
"Boris" is the name of the act. Use of the first name is designed to disarm, render the subject more approachable and less threatening, less subject to normal scrutiny, standards or constraints. Not a politician, more like an entertainer. Someone you could have a drink with. Someone a bit naughty. Somebody who doesn't need to be well briefed because oh look he's saying something funny. In short, entirely in line with his whole, remarkably successful, political strategy. People are free to call him what they like, but if you call him Boris you're simply signalling that you've been groomed by a political predator and your views can be discounted appropriately.
So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
Most pubs are not opening tomorrow
And most pub-goers are not going to the pub tomorrow.
For goodness sake! The 70% staying at home are not the ones we need worry about.
If it's going to make so little difference economically, which is your defence of the policy, why are we taking the risk?
Yeah, let's just keep everything shut forever until there is zero risk.
That is a failed argument, on your own terms.
You have said it is safe because hardly anyone will go out, which defeats the economic argument. I am saying those desperate to get to drinking establishments are the very people common sense tells us would those that would be best advised to stay away. A and E will be buzzing on Saturday, so I suppose some economic activity will be generated
Of course there is a balance, but the incidence of the virus is so low that the rewards likely outweigh the risk. If you required that the hospitality sector remain shut until there was no risk, it would probably be another year before they were open.
Yes it is a balance of risk, and yes we need to return to normal as best we can. However, the wizard wheeze gesture of opening the pubs on (American) Independence Day, which falls, this year on a Saturday is foolhardy in the extreme.
Why? If people want to go there are more hours in the day for them to do it. Otherwise it'd be a mad rush starting at 5pm.
Let's see how A and E copes on Saturday. Let's hope you are right and I am wrong.
They are probably better prepared than ever. No one is doing anything so admissions are way down!
Let's assume that is correct. It is still a poor justification for encouraging idiots to get rat-arsed.
Nobody is encouraging idiots but we just have to start opening our economy.
I would expect Starmer to be following a similar path to Boris but Boris has an army of remainers and the left who dislike him with a passion and that dislike takes away rational argument
Starmer , Boris. Why the difference in using surnames ?
Because some people are known by their forename, some by the surname. Get over it.
A bit more to it than that. "Boris" is a brand - and a very powerful one.
You could follow DuraAce`s example and just call him "the fat fuck", kinabalu.
- Leave that to him. He can do that stuff. I'm not a potty mouth.
But we do actually class what happened in Rwanda as genocide. People trying to extend that definition to slavery are cheapening the term and by extension making it a less serious charge both historically and for the future should it happen again.
It's like those animal rights weirdos trying to call people eating meat a Holocaust for animals. It isn't, all it does is make them look crazy.
I agree in principle but Starkey making these sort of points feels like cold semantics in the face of horror, like saying to a gang victim who says he was tortured, "Well, that's not exactly torture in the correct meaning of the word, it's more like repeated grievous bodily harm".. Preserving the precise meaning of language is important, but if genocide is used as a generic word for "causing terrible suffering and death for millions of people of a particular race" I think we get the idea, and it's unhelpfully academic to quibble "but they weren't actually trying to wipe them out".
So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
Most pubs are not opening tomorrow
And most pub-goers are not going to the pub tomorrow.
For goodness sake! The 70% staying at home are not the ones we need worry about.
If it's going to make so little difference economically, which is your defence of the policy, why are we taking the risk?
Yeah, let's just keep everything shut forever until there is zero risk.
That is a failed argument, on your own terms.
You have said it is safe because hardly anyone will go out, which defeats the economic argument. I am saying those desperate to get to drinking establishments are the very people common sense tells us would those that would be best advised to stay away. A and E will be buzzing on Saturday, so I suppose some economic activity will be generated
Of course there is a balance, but the incidence of the virus is so low that the rewards likely outweigh the risk. If you required that the hospitality sector remain shut until there was no risk, it would probably be another year before they were open.
Yes it is a balance of risk, and yes we need to return to normal as best we can. However, the wizard wheeze gesture of opening the pubs on (American) Independence Day, which falls, this year on a Saturday is foolhardy in the extreme.
Why? If people want to go there are more hours in the day for them to do it. Otherwise it'd be a mad rush starting at 5pm.
Let's see how A and E copes on Saturday. Let's hope you are right and I am wrong.
They are probably better prepared than ever. No one is doing anything so admissions are way down!
Let's assume that is correct. It is still a poor justification for encouraging idiots to get rat-arsed.
Nobody is encouraging idiots but we just have to start opening our economy.
I would expect Starmer to be following a similar path to Boris but Boris has an army of remainers and the left who dislike him with a passion and that dislike takes away rational argument
Starmer , Boris. Why the difference in using surnames ?
Boris and Starmer are the public recognisable names
No they are not it’s in built positive Johnson bias, it should be consistent whatever you choose to call them.
Of course they are.
You are just one of many who dislike Boris with a passion but sadly for you he will always be known as Boris
An interesting read Stodge! Question - if Johnson is a Liberal Unionist why is he doing so much to wreck the Union?
Because the Conservative Party that Cummings has engineered into a UKIP takeover with Johnson substituting for Farage definitely isn't Liberal Unionist. English nationalism, as you can imagine, goes down badly in Scotland and Ireland. I am sure Johnson does see Global Britain in a Brexit world as a meaningful thing and wants to keep the Union.
But he, his government and his party are destroying the Union. There is absolutely no doubt about that.
I don’t think most Irish or Scottish people have any problem with English nationalism. We would welcome that English people started displaying more self-respect and self-worth, and the English nation has just as much right to continue to exist and flourish as any other nation.
What we object to is that the Conservative Party that Cummings has engineered into a UKIP takeover isn’t English nationalist but British nationalist, which goes down badly in many more countries than simply Ireland or Scotland.
ElectoralCalculus's latest polling average is showing a swing of 4% from LD to Lab since the general election. Whether that's because the LDs are waiting for their new leader to be announced is an interesting question.
It must be nice to be the party whose only function is, by how their votes affects the other parties' results, to decide which of the other parties forms the government that completely ignores them. It is remarkable that anyone would want to spend their lives campaigning for this great purpose.
'tis the way our crooked system works. Other than campaigning to change the system, what else are you supposed to do if you look at Tory and Labour and find them equally abhorrent and incompetent?
Either campaign for another party and convince others to do the same ... Or join one of those two and try and change it from within.
There's nothing magical about Tories and Labour that mean they need to be two main parties. Only reason they are is because most people want to vote for one or the other.
Your comments on this topic are always exceptionally glib, as well as often incorrect. As we saw in 1983, the system protects the two major parties even when a third party runs them close. Such results force people back into choosing between the existing two main parties, and hence there is a vicious circle.
Not glib, just not bothered by sore losers whinging about the result.
In 1983 the Alliance lost. Tough. Either convince more next time, or don't.
Had the Alliance performed better as polls had indicated earlier in the Parliament they could have surged and achieved a massive breakthrough like the SNP did in 2015. They didn't though, they lost. That's all.
But we do actually class what happened in Rwanda as genocide. People trying to extend that definition to slavery are cheapening the term and by extension making it a less serious charge both historically and for the future should it happen again.
It's like those animal rights weirdos trying to call people eating meat a Holocaust for animals. It isn't, all it does is make them look crazy.
I agree in principle but Starkey making these sort of points feels like cold semantics in the face of horror, like saying to a gang victim who says he was tortured, "Well, that's not exactly torture in the correct meaning of the word, it's more like repeated grievous bodily harm".. Preserving the precise meaning of language is important, but if genocide is used as a generic word for "causing terrible suffering and death for millions of people of a particular race" I think we get the idea, and it's unhelpfully academic to quibble "but they weren't actually trying to wipe them out".
I actually do think preserving the integrity of words is quite important but I get this point of yours - crass pedantry - also.
It reminds me a little of -
"It shouldn't be Black Lives Matter, it should be Black Lives Matter too."
So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
Most pubs are not opening tomorrow
That has the recipe for even greater chaos written all over it. Arriving at the pub on Saturday, only to find it closed, will raise frustration. Onto the next to find it open, but not allowing "the boys" in due to social distancing rules, well they'll just go home a little disappointed, won't they?
No no. Apparently 70% of people say they aren't ready to go to the pub yet, so the 30% determined to get shitfaced with the boys and make a nuisance of themselves and spread the pox will behave. Obviously.
Genuine question
Would you seek an extension to lockdown and see even more devastation to jobs and peoples health, and how would you open our economy and when
Well BigG. the defenders of the policy are saying, no one is going to the pub anyway, so it will be safe. So in that case, what is the point. It is just a grand gesture.
We can't open schools, but we can open pubs. I am not sure we have our priorities right.
Schools are open and have been all along
However, just how long do you think we can keep our economy closed and how many millions of jobs are you willing to lose in the process
Schools are not open - only in very limited situations (special needs, key workers and some years occasionally - for my children it's 2 hours a week per topic, for years 7-9 there is virtually nothing).
Many teachers, especially in primary schools have been working longer hours over the past few weeks. I part because they have to chase up individual children on their iPads etc.
Teachers are doing their best (and as you say probably working longer hours) but that isn't the same as schools being open - which is what BigG was implying - that statement is simply not true and it's a great hassle for a lot of people, not just children and teachers but also parents who are having to entertain children, teach them and work at the same time.
My sons school is in the private sector and has been educating it's students on line and at the same time educating pupils in the emergency sector
It does raise the questions why state schools have not done more on line tuition
So you are looking at your private school where all parents can easily provide online access and assume that everyone is in the same position...
Everything looks rosy when you have money and live in a large house with a large garden on the edge of a small (fairly wealth) town. The rest of the world isn't like that a lot of locals to you could testify.
I do not disagree but my sons school is taking children from the state sector during this crisis and the questioned posed is why are state schools not using more online tuition
It'll vary from place to place, but a lot of schools serve families where there simply isn't enough tech at home to support zoom lessons. Smartphones, yes. Multiple laptops with big enough screens to do online lessons, no.
The government set up a laptop scheme, but it's taking a long time to get going and is probably insufficient. Some more details here:
So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
Most pubs are not opening tomorrow
And most pub-goers are not going to the pub tomorrow.
For goodness sake! The 70% staying at home are not the ones we need worry about.
If it's going to make so little difference economically, which is your defence of the policy, why are we taking the risk?
Yeah, let's just keep everything shut forever until there is zero risk.
That is a failed argument, on your own terms.
You have said it is safe because hardly anyone will go out, which defeats the economic argument. I am saying those desperate to get to drinking establishments are the very people common sense tells us would those that would be best advised to stay away. A and E will be buzzing on Saturday, so I suppose some economic activity will be generated
Of course there is a balance, but the incidence of the virus is so low that the rewards likely outweigh the risk. If you required that the hospitality sector remain shut until there was no risk, it would probably be another year before they were open.
Yes it is a balance of risk, and yes we need to return to normal as best we can. However, the wizard wheeze gesture of opening the pubs on (American) Independence Day, which falls, this year on a Saturday is foolhardy in the extreme.
Why? If people want to go there are more hours in the day for them to do it. Otherwise it'd be a mad rush starting at 5pm.
Let's see how A and E copes on Saturday. Let's hope you are right and I am wrong.
They are probably better prepared than ever. No one is doing anything so admissions are way down!
Let's assume that is correct. It is still a poor justification for encouraging idiots to get rat-arsed.
Nobody is encouraging idiots but we just have to start opening our economy.
I would expect Starmer to be following a similar path to Boris but Boris has an army of remainers and the left who dislike him with a passion and that dislike takes away rational argument
Starmer , Boris. Why the difference in using surnames ?
Boris and Starmer are the public recognisable names
"Boris" is the name of the act. Use of the first name is designed to disarm, render the subject more approachable and less threatening, less subject to normal scrutiny, standards or constraints. Not a politician, more like an entertainer. Someone you could have a drink with. Someone a bit naughty. Somebody who doesn't need to be well briefed because oh look he's saying something funny. In short, entirely in line with his whole, remarkably successful, political strategy. People are free to call him what they like, but if you call him Boris you're simply signalling that you've been groomed by a political predator and your views can be discounted appropriately.
'Groomed by a political predator' [!] You'll want to be making vinegar out of those grapes...
So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
Most pubs are not opening tomorrow
And most pub-goers are not going to the pub tomorrow.
For goodness sake! The 70% staying at home are not the ones we need worry about.
If it's going to make so little difference economically, which is your defence of the policy, why are we taking the risk?
Yeah, let's just keep everything shut forever until there is zero risk.
That is a failed argument, on your own terms.
You have said it is safe because hardly anyone will go out, which defeats the economic argument. I am saying those desperate to get to drinking establishments are the very people common sense tells us would those that would be best advised to stay away. A and E will be buzzing on Saturday, so I suppose some economic activity will be generated
Of course there is a balance, but the incidence of the virus is so low that the rewards likely outweigh the risk. If you required that the hospitality sector remain shut until there was no risk, it would probably be another year before they were open.
Yes it is a balance of risk, and yes we need to return to normal as best we can. However, the wizard wheeze gesture of opening the pubs on (American) Independence Day, which falls, this year on a Saturday is foolhardy in the extreme.
Why? If people want to go there are more hours in the day for them to do it. Otherwise it'd be a mad rush starting at 5pm.
Let's see how A and E copes on Saturday. Let's hope you are right and I am wrong.
They are probably better prepared than ever. No one is doing anything so admissions are way down!
Let's assume that is correct. It is still a poor justification for encouraging idiots to get rat-arsed.
Nobody is encouraging idiots but we just have to start opening our economy.
I would expect Starmer to be following a similar path to Boris but Boris has an army of remainers and the left who dislike him with a passion and that dislike takes away rational argument
Starmer , Boris. Why the difference in using surnames ?
Boris and Starmer are the public recognisable names
No they are not it’s in built positive Johnson bias, it should be consistent whatever you choose to call them.
Boris is Boris and as much as some want to resile from that it will not happen
He will always be Boris in the public's perception
Some like you, see it as a term of appreciation and affection. Personally I see you referring to him as such as demeaning yourself and he. You do not know him (unless you wish to tell us otherwise). He is a joke, and you don't seem to realise that the more you call him "Boris" the more he sounds like the clown that many of us long ago realised he is.
My sons school is in the private sector and has been educating it's students on line and at the same time educating pupils in the emergency sector
It does raise the questions why state schools have not done more on line tuition
So you are looking at your private school where all parents can easily provide online access and assume that everyone is in the same position...
Everything looks rosy when you have money and live in a large house with a large garden on the edge of a small (fairly wealth) town. The rest of the world isn't like that a lot of locals to you could testify.
Size of the private school, size of classes, number of teaching and support staff, availability of computers at student houses / school for loan etc etc etc.
Why haven't state schools done more online tuition? On the laptops their students didn't have and the government finally started to supply a few weeks ago in limited numbers...
It is fair to say our sons school has provided laptops to all their students and this is something HMG should fund to the state sector schools to develop wide scale on line tuition.
So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
Most pubs are not opening tomorrow
And most pub-goers are not going to the pub tomorrow.
For goodness sake! The 70% staying at home are not the ones we need worry about.
If it's going to make so little difference economically, which is your defence of the policy, why are we taking the risk?
Yeah, let's just keep everything shut forever until there is zero risk.
That is a failed argument, on your own terms.
You have said it is safe because hardly anyone will go out, which defeats the economic argument. I am saying those desperate to get to drinking establishments are the very people common sense tells us would those that would be best advised to stay away. A and E will be buzzing on Saturday, so I suppose some economic activity will be generated
Of course there is a balance, but the incidence of the virus is so low that the rewards likely outweigh the risk. If you required that the hospitality sector remain shut until there was no risk, it would probably be another year before they were open.
Yes it is a balance of risk, and yes we need to return to normal as best we can. However, the wizard wheeze gesture of opening the pubs on (American) Independence Day, which falls, this year on a Saturday is foolhardy in the extreme.
Why? If people want to go there are more hours in the day for them to do it. Otherwise it'd be a mad rush starting at 5pm.
Let's see how A and E copes on Saturday. Let's hope you are right and I am wrong.
They are probably better prepared than ever. No one is doing anything so admissions are way down!
Let's assume that is correct. It is still a poor justification for encouraging idiots to get rat-arsed.
Nobody is encouraging idiots but we just have to start opening our economy.
I would expect Starmer to be following a similar path to Boris but Boris has an army of remainers and the left who dislike him with a passion and that dislike takes away rational argument
Starmer , Boris. Why the difference in using surnames ?
Because some people are known by their forename, some by the surname. Get over it.
A bit more to it than that. "Boris" is a brand - and a very powerful one.
Remember 'Not Flash, Just Gordon'?
It's not Boris' fault that he can actually do branding...
To the gullible perhaps. Oh, so sorry, I am sure that doesn't include you, oh wait..whoops!
ElectoralCalculus's latest polling average is showing a swing of 4% from LD to Lab since the general election. Whether that's because the LDs are waiting for their new leader to be announced is an interesting question.
It must be nice to be the party whose only function is, by how their votes affects the other parties' results, to decide which of the other parties forms the government that completely ignores them. It is remarkable that anyone would want to spend their lives campaigning for this great purpose.
'tis the way our crooked system works. Other than campaigning to change the system, what else are you supposed to do if you look at Tory and Labour and find them equally abhorrent and incompetent?
Either campaign for another party and convince others to do the same ... Or join one of those two and try and change it from within.
There's nothing magical about Tories and Labour that mean they need to be two main parties. Only reason they are is because most people want to vote for one or the other.
Your comments on this topic are always exceptionally glib, as well as often incorrect. As we saw in 1983, the system protects the two major parties even when a third party runs them close. Such results force people back into choosing between the existing two main parties, and hence there is a vicious circle.
Not glib, just not bothered by sore losers whinging about the result.
In 1983 the Alliance lost. Tough. Either convince more next time, or don't.
Had the Alliance performed better as polls had indicated earlier in the Parliament they could have surged and achieved a massive breakthrough like the SNP did in 2015. They didn't though, they lost. That's all.
Indeed. Whilst I have been in favour of STV for a long time you can't argue against the reality of the SNP breaking out to become the dominant party in Scotland under FPTP. Why have other parties (whether the Alliance, UKIP, Brexit or the LibDems) failed to do so? Because the two big parties have been flexible enough to largely adopt the policies of the smaller competing party and hoover up their voters.
So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
Most pubs are not opening tomorrow
That has the recipe for even greater chaos written all over it. Arriving at the pub on Saturday, only to find it closed, will raise frustration. Onto the next to find it open, but not allowing "the boys" in due to social distancing rules, well they'll just go home a little disappointed, won't they?
No no. Apparently 70% of people say they aren't ready to go to the pub yet, so the 30% determined to get shitfaced with the boys and make a nuisance of themselves and spread the pox will behave. Obviously.
Genuine question
Would you seek an extension to lockdown and see even more devastation to jobs and peoples health, and how would you open our economy and when
Well BigG. the defenders of the policy are saying, no one is going to the pub anyway, so it will be safe. So in that case, what is the point. It is just a grand gesture.
We can't open schools, but we can open pubs. I am not sure we have our priorities right.
Schools are open and have been all along
However, just how long do you think we can keep our economy closed and how many millions of jobs are you willing to lose in the process
Schools are not open - only in very limited situations (special needs, key workers and some years occasionally - for my children it's 2 hours a week per topic, for years 7-9 there is virtually nothing).
Many teachers, especially in primary schools have been working longer hours over the past few weeks. I part because they have to chase up individual children on their iPads etc.
Teachers are doing their best (and as you say probably working longer hours) but that isn't the same as schools being open - which is what BigG was implying - that statement is simply not true and it's a great hassle for a lot of people, not just children and teachers but also parents who are having to entertain children, teach them and work at the same time.
My sons school is in the private sector and has been educating it's students on line and at the same time educating pupils in the emergency sector
It does raise the questions why state schools have not done more on line tuition
So you are looking at your private school where all parents can easily provide online access and assume that everyone is in the same position...
Everything looks rosy when you have money and live in a large house with a large garden on the edge of a small (fairly wealth) town. The rest of the world isn't like that a lot of locals to you could testify.
I do not disagree but my sons school is taking children from the state sector during this crisis and the questioned posed is why are state schools not using more online tuition
It'll vary from place to place, but a lot of schools serve families where there simply isn't enough tech at home to support zoom lessons. Smartphones, yes. Multiple laptops with big enough screens to do online lessons, no.
The government set up a laptop scheme, but it's taking a long time to get going and is probably insufficient. Some more details here:
So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
Most pubs are not opening tomorrow
And most pub-goers are not going to the pub tomorrow.
For goodness sake! The 70% staying at home are not the ones we need worry about.
If it's going to make so little difference economically, which is your defence of the policy, why are we taking the risk?
Yeah, let's just keep everything shut forever until there is zero risk.
That is a failed argument, on your own terms.
You have said it is safe because hardly anyone will go out, which defeats the economic argument. I am saying those desperate to get to drinking establishments are the very people common sense tells us would those that would be best advised to stay away. A and E will be buzzing on Saturday, so I suppose some economic activity will be generated
Of course there is a balance, but the incidence of the virus is so low that the rewards likely outweigh the risk. If you required that the hospitality sector remain shut until there was no risk, it would probably be another year before they were open.
Yes it is a balance of risk, and yes we need to return to normal as best we can. However, the wizard wheeze gesture of opening the pubs on (American) Independence Day, which falls, this year on a Saturday is foolhardy in the extreme.
Why? If people want to go there are more hours in the day for them to do it. Otherwise it'd be a mad rush starting at 5pm.
Let's see how A and E copes on Saturday. Let's hope you are right and I am wrong.
They are probably better prepared than ever. No one is doing anything so admissions are way down!
Let's assume that is correct. It is still a poor justification for encouraging idiots to get rat-arsed.
Nobody is encouraging idiots but we just have to start opening our economy.
I would expect Starmer to be following a similar path to Boris but Boris has an army of remainers and the left who dislike him with a passion and that dislike takes away rational argument
Starmer , Boris. Why the difference in using surnames ?
Boris and Starmer are the public recognisable names
"Boris" is the name of the act. Use of the first name is designed to disarm, render the subject more approachable and less threatening, less subject to normal scrutiny, standards or constraints. Not a politician, more like an entertainer. Someone you could have a drink with. Someone a bit naughty. Somebody who doesn't need to be well briefed because oh look he's saying something funny. In short, entirely in line with his whole, remarkably successful, political strategy. People are free to call him what they like, but if you call him Boris you're simply signalling that you've been groomed by a political predator and your views can be discounted appropriately.
But we do actually class what happened in Rwanda as genocide. People trying to extend that definition to slavery are cheapening the term and by extension making it a less serious charge both historically and for the future should it happen again.
It's like those animal rights weirdos trying to call people eating meat a Holocaust for animals. It isn't, all it does is make them look crazy.
I agree in principle but Starkey making these sort of points feels like cold semantics in the face of horror, like saying to a gang victim who says he was tortured, "Well, that's not exactly torture in the correct meaning of the word, it's more like repeated grievous bodily harm".. Preserving the precise meaning of language is important, but if genocide is used as a generic word for "causing terrible suffering and death for millions of people of a particular race" I think we get the idea, and it's unhelpfully academic to quibble "but they weren't actually trying to wipe them out".
I think the issue here is one of trying to argue a complex issue with people who won't and don't want to listen or understand.
From memory Starkey's whole point is something like:-
Tribe A wishes to expand and get access to something (say a lake) on Tribe B's land. With slavery Tribe A was able to remove Tribe B from the land without killing all of Tribe B (while making a profit as well but that's by the by). Without slavery Tribe A would have just killed all of Tribe B instead. So while slavery is bad it's not quite as bad as the other option..
Off topic. Just watched murder in the car park on channel 4 .Still on all 4. The murder happened in 1987. Sill no conviction after millions spent on it. The talk of police corruption, links to the media, private investigation, was disturbing. Fascinating watch.
So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
Most pubs are not opening tomorrow
And most pub-goers are not going to the pub tomorrow.
For goodness sake! The 70% staying at home are not the ones we need worry about.
If it's going to make so little difference economically, which is your defence of the policy, why are we taking the risk?
Yeah, let's just keep everything shut forever until there is zero risk.
That is a failed argument, on your own terms.
You have said it is safe because hardly anyone will go out, which defeats the economic argument. I am saying those desperate to get to drinking establishments are the very people common sense tells us would those that would be best advised to stay away. A and E will be buzzing on Saturday, so I suppose some economic activity will be generated
Of course there is a balance, but the incidence of the virus is so low that the rewards likely outweigh the risk. If you required that the hospitality sector remain shut until there was no risk, it would probably be another year before they were open.
Yes it is a balance of risk, and yes we need to return to normal as best we can. However, the wizard wheeze gesture of opening the pubs on (American) Independence Day, which falls, this year on a Saturday is foolhardy in the extreme.
Why? If people want to go there are more hours in the day for them to do it. Otherwise it'd be a mad rush starting at 5pm.
Let's see how A and E copes on Saturday. Let's hope you are right and I am wrong.
They are probably better prepared than ever. No one is doing anything so admissions are way down!
Let's assume that is correct. It is still a poor justification for encouraging idiots to get rat-arsed.
Nobody is encouraging idiots but we just have to start opening our economy.
I would expect Starmer to be following a similar path to Boris but Boris has an army of remainers and the left who dislike him with a passion and that dislike takes away rational argument
Starmer , Boris. Why the difference in using surnames ?
Boris and Starmer are the public recognisable names
"Boris" is the name of the act. Use of the first name is designed to disarm, render the subject more approachable and less threatening, less subject to normal scrutiny, standards or constraints. Not a politician, more like an entertainer. Someone you could have a drink with. Someone a bit naughty. Somebody who doesn't need to be well briefed because oh look he's saying something funny. In short, entirely in line with his whole, remarkably successful, political strategy. People are free to call him what they like, but if you call him Boris you're simply signalling that you've been groomed by a political predator and your views can be discounted appropriately.
Your last paragraph is utter garbage
You're the one referring to someone you have never met and who has immense power over all of our lives as if he is your mate, and have no curiosity or concern over how that has happened or whether such a state of affairs is primarily to his benefit or to yours.
But we do actually class what happened in Rwanda as genocide. People trying to extend that definition to slavery are cheapening the term and by extension making it a less serious charge both historically and for the future should it happen again.
It's like those animal rights weirdos trying to call people eating meat a Holocaust for animals. It isn't, all it does is make them look crazy.
I agree in principle but Starkey making these sort of points feels like cold semantics in the face of horror, like saying to a gang victim who says he was tortured, "Well, that's not exactly torture in the correct meaning of the word, it's more like repeated grievous bodily harm".. Preserving the precise meaning of language is important, but if genocide is used as a generic word for "causing terrible suffering and death for millions of people of a particular race" I think we get the idea, and it's unhelpfully academic to quibble "but they weren't actually trying to wipe them out".
As I said, I think people who are trying to extend the use of the word genocide to slavery or the slave trade are just going to make themselves look foolish. Look at how all of the official BLM communication has backfired in the last couple of weeks.
As for Starkey, yes, I think it's clear he's racist which is quite disappointing. It would be interesting to find out what is driving his prejudice and I'd love to sit down and pick his brains on why he feels the way he does, as a clearly very intelligent person I'd love to get his perspective.
So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
Most pubs are not opening tomorrow
And most pub-goers are not going to the pub tomorrow.
For goodness sake! The 70% staying at home are not the ones we need worry about.
If it's going to make so little difference economically, which is your defence of the policy, why are we taking the risk?
Yeah, let's just keep everything shut forever until there is zero risk.
That is a failed argument, on your own terms.
You have said it is safe because hardly anyone will go out, which defeats the economic argument. I am saying those desperate to get to drinking establishments are the very people common sense tells us would those that would be best advised to stay away. A and E will be buzzing on Saturday, so I suppose some economic activity will be generated
Of course there is a balance, but the incidence of the virus is so low that the rewards likely outweigh the risk. If you required that the hospitality sector remain shut until there was no risk, it would probably be another year before they were open.
Yes it is a balance of risk, and yes we need to return to normal as best we can. However, the wizard wheeze gesture of opening the pubs on (American) Independence Day, which falls, this year on a Saturday is foolhardy in the extreme.
Why? If people want to go there are more hours in the day for them to do it. Otherwise it'd be a mad rush starting at 5pm.
Let's see how A and E copes on Saturday. Let's hope you are right and I am wrong.
They are probably better prepared than ever. No one is doing anything so admissions are way down!
Let's assume that is correct. It is still a poor justification for encouraging idiots to get rat-arsed.
Nobody is encouraging idiots but we just have to start opening our economy.
I would expect Starmer to be following a similar path to Boris but Boris has an army of remainers and the left who dislike him with a passion and that dislike takes away rational argument
Starmer , Boris. Why the difference in using surnames ?
Boris and Starmer are the public recognisable names
No they are not it’s in built positive Johnson bias, it should be consistent whatever you choose to call them.
Boris is Boris and as much as some want to resile from that it will not happen
He will always be Boris in the public's perception
Some like you, see it as a term of appreciation and affection. Personally I see you referring to him as such as demeaning yourself and he. You do not know him (unless you wish to tell us otherwise). He is a joke, and you don't seem to realise that the more you call him "Boris" the more he sounds like the clown that many of us long ago realised he is.
That is just your dislike of him coming through and I will continue to refer to him as Boris
At the same time I do not think he is the right person in the office at this moment in time and hope that post 31st December he stands down.
Even if and when that happens he will still be Boris
So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
Most pubs are not opening tomorrow
And most pub-goers are not going to the pub tomorrow.
For goodness sake! The 70% staying at home are not the ones we need worry about.
If it's going to make so little difference economically, which is your defence of the policy, why are we taking the risk?
Yeah, let's just keep everything shut forever until there is zero risk.
That is a failed argument, on your own terms.
You have said it is safe because hardly anyone will go out, which defeats the economic argument. I am saying those desperate to get to drinking establishments are the very people common sense tells us would those that would be best advised to stay away. A and E will be buzzing on Saturday, so I suppose some economic activity will be generated
Of course there is a balance, but the incidence of the virus is so low that the rewards likely outweigh the risk. If you required that the hospitality sector remain shut until there was no risk, it would probably be another year before they were open.
Yes it is a balance of risk, and yes we need to return to normal as best we can. However, the wizard wheeze gesture of opening the pubs on (American) Independence Day, which falls, this year on a Saturday is foolhardy in the extreme.
Why? If people want to go there are more hours in the day for them to do it. Otherwise it'd be a mad rush starting at 5pm.
Let's see how A and E copes on Saturday. Let's hope you are right and I am wrong.
They are probably better prepared than ever. No one is doing anything so admissions are way down!
Let's assume that is correct. It is still a poor justification for encouraging idiots to get rat-arsed.
Nobody is encouraging idiots but we just have to start opening our economy.
I would expect Starmer to be following a similar path to Boris but Boris has an army of remainers and the left who dislike him with a passion and that dislike takes away rational argument
Starmer , Boris. Why the difference in using surnames ?
Boris and Starmer are the public recognisable names
"Boris" is the name of the act. Use of the first name is designed to disarm, render the subject more approachable and less threatening, less subject to normal scrutiny, standards or constraints. Not a politician, more like an entertainer. Someone you could have a drink with. Someone a bit naughty. Somebody who doesn't need to be well briefed because oh look he's saying something funny. In short, entirely in line with his whole, remarkably successful, political strategy. People are free to call him what they like, but if you call him Boris you're simply signalling that you've been groomed by a political predator and your views can be discounted appropriately.
Your last paragraph is utter garbage
You're the one referring to someone you have never met and who has immense power over all of our lives as if he is your mate, and have no curiosity or concern over how that has happened or whether such a state of affairs is primarily to his benefit or to yours.
I refer to people all the time by the first name and they aren't necessarily my mates.
So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
Most pubs are not opening tomorrow
And most pub-goers are not going to the pub tomorrow.
For goodness sake! The 70% staying at home are not the ones we need worry about.
If it's going to make so little difference economically, which is your defence of the policy, why are we taking the risk?
Yeah, let's just keep everything shut forever until there is zero risk.
That is a failed argument, on your own terms.
You have said it is safe because hardly anyone will go out, which defeats the economic argument. I am saying those desperate to get to drinking establishments are the very people common sense tells us would those that would be best advised to stay away. A and E will be buzzing on Saturday, so I suppose some economic activity will be generated
Of course there is a balance, but the incidence of the virus is so low that the rewards likely outweigh the risk. If you required that the hospitality sector remain shut until there was no risk, it would probably be another year before they were open.
Yes it is a balance of risk, and yes we need to return to normal as best we can. However, the wizard wheeze gesture of opening the pubs on (American) Independence Day, which falls, this year on a Saturday is foolhardy in the extreme.
Why? If people want to go there are more hours in the day for them to do it. Otherwise it'd be a mad rush starting at 5pm.
Let's see how A and E copes on Saturday. Let's hope you are right and I am wrong.
They are probably better prepared than ever. No one is doing anything so admissions are way down!
Let's assume that is correct. It is still a poor justification for encouraging idiots to get rat-arsed.
Nobody is encouraging idiots but we just have to start opening our economy.
I would expect Starmer to be following a similar path to Boris but Boris has an army of remainers and the left who dislike him with a passion and that dislike takes away rational argument
Starmer , Boris. Why the difference in using surnames ?
Because some people are known by their forename, some by the surname. Get over it.
A bit more to it than that. "Boris" is a brand - and a very powerful one.
Remember 'Not Flash, Just Gordon'?
It's not Boris' fault that he can actually do branding...
It's not his fault at all. He's built a best-selling brand and hats off to him for it.
All I'm seeking to do is tip off those who are not his supporters but are buying into the brand - by promulgating its "Boris" labeling - that this is what they are doing.
For these people the switch from "Boris" to "Johnson" might feel awkward at first - a little forced - but as with many good habits perseverance will pay off and once it's established they will feel better in themselves and will never look back.
And if enough do it, it will cost Bor ... Johnson big time. In fact it could all but kill him off imo. That's the prize.
BTW, I am pursuing this initiative in flesh & blood life too, not just on here. If somebody in my presence calls him "Boris", I ask them if they are a supporter of his or the Cons. If the answer to this is "No", then I tip them off. Not tick them off, please note, I tip them off (as above).
So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
Most pubs are not opening tomorrow
That has the recipe for even greater chaos written all over it. Arriving at the pub on Saturday, only to find it closed, will raise frustration. Onto the next to find it open, but not allowing "the boys" in due to social distancing rules, well they'll just go home a little disappointed, won't they?
No no. Apparently 70% of people say they aren't ready to go to the pub yet, so the 30% determined to get shitfaced with the boys and make a nuisance of themselves and spread the pox will behave. Obviously.
Genuine question
Would you seek an extension to lockdown and see even more devastation to jobs and peoples health, and how would you open our economy and when
Well BigG. the defenders of the policy are saying, no one is going to the pub anyway, so it will be safe. So in that case, what is the point. It is just a grand gesture.
We can't open schools, but we can open pubs. I am not sure we have our priorities right.
Schools are open and have been all along
However, just how long do you think we can keep our economy closed and how many millions of jobs are you willing to lose in the process
Schools are not open - only in very limited situations (special needs, key workers and some years occasionally - for my children it's 2 hours a week per topic, for years 7-9 there is virtually nothing).
Many teachers, especially in primary schools have been working longer hours over the past few weeks. I part because they have to chase up individual children on their iPads etc.
Teachers are doing their best (and as you say probably working longer hours) but that isn't the same as schools being open - which is what BigG was implying - that statement is simply not true and it's a great hassle for a lot of people, not just children and teachers but also parents who are having to entertain children, teach them and work at the same time.
My sons school is in the private sector and has been educating it's students on line and at the same time educating pupils in the emergency sector
It does raise the questions why state schools have not done more on line tuition
So you are looking at your private school where all parents can easily provide online access and assume that everyone is in the same position...
Everything looks rosy when you have money and live in a large house with a large garden on the edge of a small (fairly wealth) town. The rest of the world isn't like that a lot of locals to you could testify.
I do not disagree but my sons school is taking children from the state sector during this crisis and the questioned posed is why are state schools not using more online tuition
It'll vary from place to place, but a lot of schools serve families where there simply isn't enough tech at home to support zoom lessons. Smartphones, yes. Multiple laptops with big enough screens to do online lessons, no.
The government set up a laptop scheme, but it's taking a long time to get going and is probably insufficient. Some more details here:
So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
Most pubs are not opening tomorrow
And most pub-goers are not going to the pub tomorrow.
For goodness sake! The 70% staying at home are not the ones we need worry about.
If it's going to make so little difference economically, which is your defence of the policy, why are we taking the risk?
Yeah, let's just keep everything shut forever until there is zero risk.
That is a failed argument, on your own terms.
You have said it is safe because hardly anyone will go out, which defeats the economic argument. I am saying those desperate to get to drinking establishments are the very people common sense tells us would those that would be best advised to stay away. A and E will be buzzing on Saturday, so I suppose some economic activity will be generated
Of course there is a balance, but the incidence of the virus is so low that the rewards likely outweigh the risk. If you required that the hospitality sector remain shut until there was no risk, it would probably be another year before they were open.
Yes it is a balance of risk, and yes we need to return to normal as best we can. However, the wizard wheeze gesture of opening the pubs on (American) Independence Day, which falls, this year on a Saturday is foolhardy in the extreme.
Why? If people want to go there are more hours in the day for them to do it. Otherwise it'd be a mad rush starting at 5pm.
Let's see how A and E copes on Saturday. Let's hope you are right and I am wrong.
They are probably better prepared than ever. No one is doing anything so admissions are way down!
Let's assume that is correct. It is still a poor justification for encouraging idiots to get rat-arsed.
Nobody is encouraging idiots but we just have to start opening our economy.
I would expect Starmer to be following a similar path to Boris but Boris has an army of remainers and the left who dislike him with a passion and that dislike takes away rational argument
Starmer , Boris. Why the difference in using surnames ?
Boris and Starmer are the public recognisable names
No they are not it’s in built positive Johnson bias, it should be consistent whatever you choose to call them.
Boris is Boris and as much as some want to resile from that it will not happen
He will always be Boris in the public's perception
Some like you, see it as a term of appreciation and affection. Personally I see you referring to him as such as demeaning yourself and he. You do not know him (unless you wish to tell us otherwise). He is a joke, and you don't seem to realise that the more you call him "Boris" the more he sounds like the clown that many of us long ago realised he is.
A joke who won a 80 seat majority to become PM and two mayoral elections in a Labour city. An incredibly succesful Joke?
So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
Most pubs are not opening tomorrow
And most pub-goers are not going to the pub tomorrow.
For goodness sake! The 70% staying at home are not the ones we need worry about.
If it's going to make so little difference economically, which is your defence of the policy, why are we taking the risk?
Yeah, let's just keep everything shut forever until there is zero risk.
That is a failed argument, on your own terms.
You have said it is safe because hardly anyone will go out, which defeats the economic argument. I am saying those desperate to get to drinking establishments are the very people common sense tells us would those that would be best advised to stay away. A and E will be buzzing on Saturday, so I suppose some economic activity will be generated
Of course there is a balance, but the incidence of the virus is so low that the rewards likely outweigh the risk. If you required that the hospitality sector remain shut until there was no risk, it would probably be another year before they were open.
Yes it is a balance of risk, and yes we need to return to normal as best we can. However, the wizard wheeze gesture of opening the pubs on (American) Independence Day, which falls, this year on a Saturday is foolhardy in the extreme.
Why? If people want to go there are more hours in the day for them to do it. Otherwise it'd be a mad rush starting at 5pm.
Let's see how A and E copes on Saturday. Let's hope you are right and I am wrong.
They are probably better prepared than ever. No one is doing anything so admissions are way down!
Let's assume that is correct. It is still a poor justification for encouraging idiots to get rat-arsed.
Nobody is encouraging idiots but we just have to start opening our economy.
I would expect Starmer to be following a similar path to Boris but Boris has an army of remainers and the left who dislike him with a passion and that dislike takes away rational argument
Starmer , Boris. Why the difference in using surnames ?
Boris and Starmer are the public recognisable names
"Boris" is the name of the act. Use of the first name is designed to disarm, render the subject more approachable and less threatening, less subject to normal scrutiny, standards or constraints. Not a politician, more like an entertainer. Someone you could have a drink with. Someone a bit naughty. Somebody who doesn't need to be well briefed because oh look he's saying something funny. In short, entirely in line with his whole, remarkably successful, political strategy. People are free to call him what they like, but if you call him Boris you're simply signalling that you've been groomed by a political predator and your views can be discounted appropriately.
But we do actually class what happened in Rwanda as genocide. People trying to extend that definition to slavery are cheapening the term and by extension making it a less serious charge both historically and for the future should it happen again.
It's like those animal rights weirdos trying to call people eating meat a Holocaust for animals. It isn't, all it does is make them look crazy.
I agree in principle but Starkey making these sort of points feels like cold semantics in the face of horror, like saying to a gang victim who says he was tortured, "Well, that's not exactly torture in the correct meaning of the word, it's more like repeated grievous bodily harm".. Preserving the precise meaning of language is important, but if genocide is used as a generic word for "causing terrible suffering and death for millions of people of a particular race" I think we get the idea, and it's unhelpfully academic to quibble "but they weren't actually trying to wipe them out".
Of course, wiping them out would have destroyed a valuable commodity, so the fact that they didn't hardly signals the presence of some kind of 'genocide would be a step too far' compassion.
So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
Most pubs are not opening tomorrow
And most pub-goers are not going to the pub tomorrow.
For goodness sake! The 70% staying at home are not the ones we need worry about.
If it's going to make so little difference economically, which is your defence of the policy, why are we taking the risk?
Yeah, let's just keep everything shut forever until there is zero risk.
That is a failed argument, on your own terms.
You have said it is safe because hardly anyone will go out, which defeats the economic argument. I am saying those desperate to get to drinking establishments are the very people common sense tells us would those that would be best advised to stay away. A and E will be buzzing on Saturday, so I suppose some economic activity will be generated
Of course there is a balance, but the incidence of the virus is so low that the rewards likely outweigh the risk. If you required that the hospitality sector remain shut until there was no risk, it would probably be another year before they were open.
Yes it is a balance of risk, and yes we need to return to normal as best we can. However, the wizard wheeze gesture of opening the pubs on (American) Independence Day, which falls, this year on a Saturday is foolhardy in the extreme.
Why? If people want to go there are more hours in the day for them to do it. Otherwise it'd be a mad rush starting at 5pm.
Let's see how A and E copes on Saturday. Let's hope you are right and I am wrong.
They are probably better prepared than ever. No one is doing anything so admissions are way down!
Let's assume that is correct. It is still a poor justification for encouraging idiots to get rat-arsed.
Nobody is encouraging idiots but we just have to start opening our economy.
I would expect Starmer to be following a similar path to Boris but Boris has an army of remainers and the left who dislike him with a passion and that dislike takes away rational argument
Starmer , Boris. Why the difference in using surnames ?
Boris and Starmer are the public recognisable names
"Boris" is the name of the act. Use of the first name is designed to disarm, render the subject more approachable and less threatening, less subject to normal scrutiny, standards or constraints. Not a politician, more like an entertainer. Someone you could have a drink with. Someone a bit naughty. Somebody who doesn't need to be well briefed because oh look he's saying something funny. In short, entirely in line with his whole, remarkably successful, political strategy. People are free to call him what they like, but if you call him Boris you're simply signalling that you've been groomed by a political predator and your views can be discounted appropriately.
Your last paragraph is utter garbage
You're the one referring to someone you have never met and who has immense power over all of our lives as if he is your mate, and have no curiosity or concern over how that has happened or whether such a state of affairs is primarily to his benefit or to yours.
Keir Hardie Ramsay MacDonald Harold Wilson Gordon Brown
that they all dropped to create a more appealing persona?
The idea that Boris is some unique exploiter of the technique while other politicians, especially Labour ones, are just plain unvarnished articles sounds awfully like - what's the word? - gaslighting...
My sons school is in the private sector and has been educating it's students on line and at the same time educating pupils in the emergency sector
It does raise the questions why state schools have not done more on line tuition
So you are looking at your private school where all parents can easily provide online access and assume that everyone is in the same position...
Everything looks rosy when you have money and live in a large house with a large garden on the edge of a small (fairly wealth) town. The rest of the world isn't like that a lot of locals to you could testify.
Size of the private school, size of classes, number of teaching and support staff, availability of computers at student houses / school for loan etc etc etc.
Why haven't state schools done more online tuition? On the laptops their students didn't have and the government finally started to supply a few weeks ago in limited numbers...
It is fair to say our sons school has provided laptops to all their students and this is something HMG should fund to the state sector schools to develop wide scale on line tuition.
Sadly it’s not that simple, as I’m sure your son would attest. There’s supply chain issues at the moment, thanks to all the disruption. Computers can’t simply be given to kids without an amount of configuration and management, which in many cases isn’t configured to work with computers based remotely.
Give an unrestricted computer to a teenager, and you can pretty much guarantee it will be an unusable mess full of porn and viruses within a few days - alongside stories in the Daily Mail of outraged parents whose school didn’t lock down the computer properly.
So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
Most pubs are not opening tomorrow
And most pub-goers are not going to the pub tomorrow.
For goodness sake! The 70% staying at home are not the ones we need worry about.
If it's going to make so little difference economically, which is your defence of the policy, why are we taking the risk?
Yeah, let's just keep everything shut forever until there is zero risk.
That is a failed argument, on your own terms.
You have said it is safe because hardly anyone will go out, which defeats the economic argument. I am saying those desperate to get to drinking establishments are the very people common sense tells us would those that would be best advised to stay away. A and E will be buzzing on Saturday, so I suppose some economic activity will be generated
Of course there is a balance, but the incidence of the virus is so low that the rewards likely outweigh the risk. If you required that the hospitality sector remain shut until there was no risk, it would probably be another year before they were open.
Yes it is a balance of risk, and yes we need to return to normal as best we can. However, the wizard wheeze gesture of opening the pubs on (American) Independence Day, which falls, this year on a Saturday is foolhardy in the extreme.
Why? If people want to go there are more hours in the day for them to do it. Otherwise it'd be a mad rush starting at 5pm.
Let's see how A and E copes on Saturday. Let's hope you are right and I am wrong.
They are probably better prepared than ever. No one is doing anything so admissions are way down!
Let's assume that is correct. It is still a poor justification for encouraging idiots to get rat-arsed.
Nobody is encouraging idiots but we just have to start opening our economy.
I would expect Starmer to be following a similar path to Boris but Boris has an army of remainers and the left who dislike him with a passion and that dislike takes away rational argument
Starmer , Boris. Why the difference in using surnames ?
Boris and Starmer are the public recognisable names
"Boris" is the name of the act. Use of the first name is designed to disarm, render the subject more approachable and less threatening, less subject to normal scrutiny, standards or constraints. Not a politician, more like an entertainer. Someone you could have a drink with. Someone a bit naughty. Somebody who doesn't need to be well briefed because oh look he's saying something funny. In short, entirely in line with his whole, remarkably successful, political strategy. People are free to call him what they like, but if you call him Boris you're simply signalling that you've been groomed by a political predator and your views can be discounted appropriately.
Your last paragraph is utter garbage
You're the one referring to someone you have never met and who has immense power over all of our lives as if he is your mate, and have no curiosity or concern over how that has happened or whether such a state of affairs is primarily to his benefit or to yours.
So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
Most pubs are not opening tomorrow
And most pub-goers are not going to the pub tomorrow.
For goodness sake! The 70% staying at home are not the ones we need worry about.
If it's going to make so little difference economically, which is your defence of the policy, why are we taking the risk?
Yeah, let's just keep everything shut forever until there is zero risk.
That is a failed argument, on your own terms.
You have said it is safe because hardly anyone will go out, which defeats the economic argument. I am saying those desperate to get to drinking establishments are the very people common sense tells us would those that would be best advised to stay away. A and E will be buzzing on Saturday, so I suppose some economic activity will be generated
Of course there is a balance, but the incidence of the virus is so low that the rewards likely outweigh the risk. If you required that the hospitality sector remain shut until there was no risk, it would probably be another year before they were open.
Yes it is a balance of risk, and yes we need to return to normal as best we can. However, the wizard wheeze gesture of opening the pubs on (American) Independence Day, which falls, this year on a Saturday is foolhardy in the extreme.
Why? If people want to go there are more hours in the day for them to do it. Otherwise it'd be a mad rush starting at 5pm.
Let's see how A and E copes on Saturday. Let's hope you are right and I am wrong.
They are probably better prepared than ever. No one is doing anything so admissions are way down!
Let's assume that is correct. It is still a poor justification for encouraging idiots to get rat-arsed.
Nobody is encouraging idiots but we just have to start opening our economy.
I would expect Starmer to be following a similar path to Boris but Boris has an army of remainers and the left who dislike him with a passion and that dislike takes away rational argument
Starmer , Boris. Why the difference in using surnames ?
Boris and Starmer are the public recognisable names
"Boris" is the name of the act. Use of the first name is designed to disarm, render the subject more approachable and less threatening, less subject to normal scrutiny, standards or constraints. Not a politician, more like an entertainer. Someone you could have a drink with. Someone a bit naughty. Somebody who doesn't need to be well briefed because oh look he's saying something funny. In short, entirely in line with his whole, remarkably successful, political strategy. People are free to call him what they like, but if you call him Boris you're simply signalling that you've been groomed by a political predator and your views can be discounted appropriately.
That's very well put. Not pulling your punches as perhaps I am too prone to do sometimes.
So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
Most pubs are not opening tomorrow
And most pub-goers are not going to the pub tomorrow.
For goodness sake! The 70% staying at home are not the ones we need worry about.
If it's going to make so little difference economically, which is your defence of the policy, why are we taking the risk?
Yeah, let's just keep everything shut forever until there is zero risk.
That is a failed argument, on your own terms.
You have said it is safe because hardly anyone will go out, which defeats the economic argument. I am saying those desperate to get to drinking establishments are the very people common sense tells us would those that would be best advised to stay away. A and E will be buzzing on Saturday, so I suppose some economic activity will be generated
Of course there is a balance, but the incidence of the virus is so low that the rewards likely outweigh the risk. If you required that the hospitality sector remain shut until there was no risk, it would probably be another year before they were open.
Yes it is a balance of risk, and yes we need to return to normal as best we can. However, the wizard wheeze gesture of opening the pubs on (American) Independence Day, which falls, this year on a Saturday is foolhardy in the extreme.
Why? If people want to go there are more hours in the day for them to do it. Otherwise it'd be a mad rush starting at 5pm.
Let's see how A and E copes on Saturday. Let's hope you are right and I am wrong.
They are probably better prepared than ever. No one is doing anything so admissions are way down!
Let's assume that is correct. It is still a poor justification for encouraging idiots to get rat-arsed.
Nobody is encouraging idiots but we just have to start opening our economy.
I would expect Starmer to be following a similar path to Boris but Boris has an army of remainers and the left who dislike him with a passion and that dislike takes away rational argument
Starmer , Boris. Why the difference in using surnames ?
Because some people are known by their forename, some by the surname. Get over it.
A bit more to it than that. "Boris" is a brand - and a very powerful one.
Remember 'Not Flash, Just Gordon'?
It's not Boris' fault that he can actually do branding...
It's not his fault at all. He's built a best-selling brand and hats off to him for it.
All I'm seeking to do is tip off those who are not his supporters but are buying into the brand - by promulgating its "Boris" labeling - that this is what they are doing.
For these people the switch from "Boris" to "Johnson" might feel awkward at first - a little forced - but as with many good habits perseverance will pay off and once it's established they will feel better in themselves and will never look back.
And if enough do it, it will cost Bor ... Johnson big time. In fact it could all but kill him off imo. That's the prize.
BTW, I am pursuing this initiative in flesh & blood life too, not just on here. If somebody in my presence calls him "Boris", I ask them if they are a supporter of his or the Cons. If the answer to this is "No", then I tip them off. Not tick them off, please note, I tip them off (as above).
Agreed. I have always preferred calling him "Johnson", particularly as it is a colloquialism in the US for penis. It is so obsequious when followers of an individual they don't know refer to their idol by their first name.
Exactly the same as the unthinking moronic lefties who refer to Corbyn as "Jeremy" or even Jezza. He is Corbyn - an extremely thick ex-leader of the Labour Party who allowed Johnson, a lazy and incompetent narcissist to become PM.
So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
Most pubs are not opening tomorrow
And most pub-goers are not going to the pub tomorrow.
For goodness sake! The 70% staying at home are not the ones we need worry about.
If it's going to make so little difference economically, which is your defence of the policy, why are we taking the risk?
Yeah, let's just keep everything shut forever until there is zero risk.
That is a failed argument, on your own terms.
You have said it is safe because hardly anyone will go out, which defeats the economic argument. I am saying those desperate to get to drinking establishments are the very people common sense tells us would those that would be best advised to stay away. A and E will be buzzing on Saturday, so I suppose some economic activity will be generated
Of course there is a balance, but the incidence of the virus is so low that the rewards likely outweigh the risk. If you required that the hospitality sector remain shut until there was no risk, it would probably be another year before they were open.
Yes it is a balance of risk, and yes we need to return to normal as best we can. However, the wizard wheeze gesture of opening the pubs on (American) Independence Day, which falls, this year on a Saturday is foolhardy in the extreme.
Why? If people want to go there are more hours in the day for them to do it. Otherwise it'd be a mad rush starting at 5pm.
Let's see how A and E copes on Saturday. Let's hope you are right and I am wrong.
They are probably better prepared than ever. No one is doing anything so admissions are way down!
Let's assume that is correct. It is still a poor justification for encouraging idiots to get rat-arsed.
Nobody is encouraging idiots but we just have to start opening our economy.
I would expect Starmer to be following a similar path to Boris but Boris has an army of remainers and the left who dislike him with a passion and that dislike takes away rational argument
Starmer , Boris. Why the difference in using surnames ?
Because some people are known by their forename, some by the surname. Get over it.
A bit more to it than that. "Boris" is a brand - and a very powerful one.
Remember 'Not Flash, Just Gordon'?
It's not Boris' fault that he can actually do branding...
It's not his fault at all. He's built a best-selling brand and hats off to him for it.
All I'm seeking to do is tip off those who are not his supporters but are buying into the brand - by promulgating its "Boris" labeling - that this is what they are doing.
For these people the switch from "Boris" to "Johnson" might feel awkward at first - a little forced - but as with many good habits perseverance will pay off and once it's established they will feel better in themselves and will never look back.
And if enough do it, it will cost Bor ... Johnson big time. In fact it could all but kill him off imo. That's the prize.
BTW, I am pursuing this initiative in flesh & blood life too, not just on here. If somebody in my presence calls him "Boris", I ask them if they are a supporter of his or the Cons. If the answer to this is "No", then I tip them off. Not tick them off, please note, I tip them off (as above).
Agreed. I have always preferred calling him "Johnson", particularly as it is a colloquialism in the US for penis. It is so obsequious when followers of an individual they don't know refer to their idol by their first name.
Exactly the same as the unthinking moronic lefties who refer to Corbyn as "Jeremy" or even Jezza. He is Corbyn - an extremely thick ex-leader of the Labour Party who allowed Johnson, a lazy and incompetent narcissist to become PM.
So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
Most pubs are not opening tomorrow
And most pub-goers are not going to the pub tomorrow.
For goodness sake! The 70% staying at home are not the ones we need worry about.
If it's going to make so little difference economically, which is your defence of the policy, why are we taking the risk?
Yeah, let's just keep everything shut forever until there is zero risk.
That is a failed argument, on your own terms.
You have said it is safe because hardly anyone will go out, which defeats the economic argument. I am saying those desperate to get to drinking establishments are the very people common sense tells us would those that would be best advised to stay away. A and E will be buzzing on Saturday, so I suppose some economic activity will be generated
Of course there is a balance, but the incidence of the virus is so low that the rewards likely outweigh the risk. If you required that the hospitality sector remain shut until there was no risk, it would probably be another year before they were open.
Yes it is a balance of risk, and yes we need to return to normal as best we can. However, the wizard wheeze gesture of opening the pubs on (American) Independence Day, which falls, this year on a Saturday is foolhardy in the extreme.
Why? If people want to go there are more hours in the day for them to do it. Otherwise it'd be a mad rush starting at 5pm.
Let's see how A and E copes on Saturday. Let's hope you are right and I am wrong.
They are probably better prepared than ever. No one is doing anything so admissions are way down!
Let's assume that is correct. It is still a poor justification for encouraging idiots to get rat-arsed.
Nobody is encouraging idiots but we just have to start opening our economy.
I would expect Starmer to be following a similar path to Boris but Boris has an army of remainers and the left who dislike him with a passion and that dislike takes away rational argument
Starmer , Boris. Why the difference in using surnames ?
Because some people are known by their forename, some by the surname. Get over it.
A bit more to it than that. "Boris" is a brand - and a very powerful one.
Remember 'Not Flash, Just Gordon'?
It's not Boris' fault that he can actually do branding...
It's not his fault at all. He's built a best-selling brand and hats off to him for it.
All I'm seeking to do is tip off those who are not his supporters but are buying into the brand - by promulgating its "Boris" labeling - that this is what they are doing.
For these people the switch from "Boris" to "Johnson" might feel awkward at first - a little forced - but as with many good habits perseverance will pay off and once it's established they will feel better in themselves and will never look back.
And if enough do it, it will cost Bor ... Johnson big time. In fact it could all but kill him off imo. That's the prize.
BTW, I am pursuing this initiative in flesh & blood life too, not just on here. If somebody in my presence calls him "Boris", I ask them if they are a supporter of his or the Cons. If the answer to this is "No", then I tip them off. Not tick them off, please note, I tip them off (as above).
Perhaps also relevantly to PB [edit], it is also arguably a courtesy on a site such as PB with a range of political affiliations, not to use a nickname that is abusive in some way (whether negatively or positively to the other side). And sensible too if one wants to be taken more seriously.
My sons school is in the private sector and has been educating it's students on line and at the same time educating pupils in the emergency sector
It does raise the questions why state schools have not done more on line tuition
So you are looking at your private school where all parents can easily provide online access and assume that everyone is in the same position...
Everything looks rosy when you have money and live in a large house with a large garden on the edge of a small (fairly wealth) town. The rest of the world isn't like that a lot of locals to you could testify.
Size of the private school, size of classes, number of teaching and support staff, availability of computers at student houses / school for loan etc etc etc.
Why haven't state schools done more online tuition? On the laptops their students didn't have and the government finally started to supply a few weeks ago in limited numbers...
It is fair to say our sons school has provided laptops to all their students and this is something HMG should fund to the state sector schools to develop wide scale on line tuition.
Sadly it’s not that simple, as I’m sure your son would attest. There’s supply chain issues at the moment, thanks to all the disruption. Computers can’t simply be given to kids without an amount of configuration and management, which in many cases isn’t configured to work with computers based remotely.
Give an unrestricted computer to a teenager, and you can pretty much guarantee it will be an unusable mess full of porn and viruses within a few days - alongside stories in the Daily Mail of outraged parents whose school didn’t lock down the computer properly.
My son, as head of IT, has addressed all those issues and the new contract provides new laptops every three years to all staff and students fully configured
So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
Most pubs are not opening tomorrow
That has the recipe for even greater chaos written all over it. Arriving at the pub on Saturday, only to find it closed, will raise frustration. Onto the next to find it open, but not allowing "the boys" in due to social distancing rules, well they'll just go home a little disappointed, won't they?
No no. Apparently 70% of people say they aren't ready to go to the pub yet, so the 30% determined to get shitfaced with the boys and make a nuisance of themselves and spread the pox will behave. Obviously.
Genuine question
Would you seek an extension to lockdown and see even more devastation to jobs and peoples health, and how would you open our economy and when
Well BigG. the defenders of the policy are saying, no one is going to the pub anyway, so it will be safe. So in that case, what is the point. It is just a grand gesture.
We can't open schools, but we can open pubs. I am not sure we have our priorities right.
Schools are open and have been all along
However, just how long do you think we can keep our economy closed and how many millions of jobs are you willing to lose in the process
Schools are not open - only in very limited situations (special needs, key workers and some years occasionally - for my children it's 2 hours a week per topic, for years 7-9 there is virtually nothing).
Many teachers, especially in primary schools have been working longer hours over the past few weeks. I part because they have to chase up individual children on their iPads etc.
Teachers are doing their best (and as you say probably working longer hours) but that isn't the same as schools being open - which is what BigG was implying - that statement is simply not true and it's a great hassle for a lot of people, not just children and teachers but also parents who are having to entertain children, teach them and work at the same time.
My sons school is in the private sector and has been educating it's students on line and at the same time educating pupils in the emergency sector
It does raise the questions why state schools have not done more on line tuition
So you are looking at your private school where all parents can easily provide online access and assume that everyone is in the same position...
Everything looks rosy when you have money and live in a large house with a large garden on the edge of a small (fairly wealth) town. The rest of the world isn't like that a lot of locals to you could testify.
I do not disagree but my sons school is taking children from the state sector during this crisis and the questioned posed is why are state schools not using more online tuition
It'll vary from place to place, but a lot of schools serve families where there simply isn't enough tech at home to support zoom lessons. Smartphones, yes. Multiple laptops with big enough screens to do online lessons, no.
The government set up a laptop scheme, but it's taking a long time to get going and is probably insufficient. Some more details here:
Keir Hardie Ramsay MacDonald Harold Wilson Gordon Brown
that they all dropped to create a more appealing persona?
The idea that Boris is some unique exploiter of the technique while other politicians, especially Labour ones, are just plain unvarnished articles sounds awfully like - what's the word? - gaslighting...
Nobody is saying that he has to be called Alexander Johnson though are they, so not sure what point you're making here Blue. Or perhaps you prefer Bluest?
Also a lot of equipment just isn't available at the moment, if I was to order my usual laptop for new staff members I've currently got a 5 week wait.
Its been a disaster for our kids, and as usual the kids who most needed the support won't have got it. And yet the solution is not to rip up the rules and send them all back. The guidelines talk about keeping kids separate on school buses - doesn't say how of course. And that they keep apart in the canteens - doesn't say how of course. etc etc
Also a lot of equipment just isn't available at the moment, if I was to order my usual laptop for new staff members I've currently got a 5 week wait.
Its been a disaster for our kids, and as usual the kids who most needed the support won't have got it. And yet the solution is not to rip up the rules and send them all back. The guidelines talk about keeping kids separate on school buses - doesn't say how of course. And that they keep apart in the canteens - doesn't say how of course. etc etc
The tough answer is 'there isn't a way'. And thats going to have to be how it is, just no one wants to admit it.
Keir Hardie Ramsay MacDonald Harold Wilson Gordon Brown
that they all dropped to create a more appealing persona?
The idea that Boris is some unique exploiter of the technique while other politicians, especially Labour ones, are just plain unvarnished articles sounds awfully like - what's the word? - gaslighting...
James, James, James and James.
It’s rather amusing to watch people get completely wound up by names used for certain people - when in any other situation they’d say that we should absolutely call them whatever name they want us to use!
Comments
I would expect Starmer to be following a similar path to Boris but Boris has an army of remainers and the left who dislike him with a passion and that dislike takes away rational argument
https://twitter.com/nigel_farage/status/1270373208475271168?s=21
It does raise the questions why state schools have not done more on line tuition
" if you took the gas chamber element away from the Nazi concentration camps, would it no longer be a genocide?"
It would most definitely be genocide. The evidence on this point is very clear.
There were many concentration camps and there were ghettos. Only one concentration camp had gas chambers. In the other concentration camps there were many direct executions and and very many indirect executions (eg, insufficient nutrion for the forced labour and forced medical experiments). The deliberate killing of millions of people just because they were Jewish would still have occured.
Grr.
So what do we do? Do we keep a tight lockdown (and quarantine) in the hope we can eliminate the virus locally like NZ? Or do we accept that in a country like the UK that way lies economic ruin and almost certainly no success in any event?
We have no choice but to unwind the lockdown. We need our economy to start moving again. That includes pubs, restaurants and hairdressers. There is no magical solution or system that makes this safe. We really just have to accept that. The risk individually is very low but some will be unlucky and some of those will die. That's the way it is.
Does domestic now mean Japan or South Korea?
Exactly the same thing will be true if there ends up being a big second wave- any short-term gain in people going outside for a while will be at the cost not only of many deaths, but of having to lock down harder, for longer, again.
Why the difference in using surnames ?
The level of carnage in some of these cases is hard to comprehend. The population of Northern China fell from 30m to 9m, between 1211 and 1241, thank to the Mongol conquest. The An Lushan rebellion killed anywhere between 5% and 15% of the world's population in the eighth century.
Everything looks rosy when you have money and live in a large house with a large garden on the edge of a small (fairly wealth) town. The rest of the world isn't like that a lot of locals to you could testify.
Good morning.
Why haven't state schools done more online tuition? On the laptops their students didn't have and the government finally started to supply a few weeks ago in limited numbers...
No, Trump Isn’t Going to Drop Out
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/07/01/no-trump-isnt-going-to-drop-out-347509
...With this rationalization in his back pocket, there’s no reason for Trump to forgo any chance whatever of remaining the most talked-about man on the planet for the next four years by dropping out based on early summer polling.
The anonymous Republicans chattering about this scenario surely are wish-casting and assume some other—any other—GOP presidential candidate would be better for the party’s chances. This, too, is doubtful.
How would the great drop-and-switch even work? The party would be implicitly conceding that the incumbent Republican president was such a disaster that he couldn’t even run for a second term—and then turn around and ask voters for four more years of yet another Republican president.
One of the points of this exercise would be to repudiate Trump, but how could the party plausibly do that after loyally and enthusiastically backing him for four years?...
So the chances of his getting pushed aside are also extremely low.
Tired: Standing on doorstep, clapping NHS workers, tears of gratitude rolling down your cheeks.
Wired: Punching NHS worker in A+E because you are too drunk to see straight.
Hope I am wrong.
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/07/tammy-duckworth-biden-vice-president-running-mate/613753/
It's not Boris' fault that he can actually do branding...
The question is at what content level* a product is "made in country X".
*And how do you measure content - weight, value (whose valuation) etc etc??
He will always be Boris in the public's perception
People are free to call him what they like, but if you call him Boris you're simply signalling that you've been groomed by a political predator and your views can be discounted appropriately.
🦆 Tammy Duckworth
👮♀️ Kamala Harris
🍚 Susan Rice
☃️ Amy KLOBUCHAR
You are just one of many who dislike Boris with a passion but sadly for you he will always be known as Boris
What we object to is that the Conservative Party that Cummings has engineered into a UKIP takeover isn’t English nationalist but British nationalist, which goes down badly in many more countries than simply Ireland or Scotland.
In 1983 the Alliance lost. Tough. Either convince more next time, or don't.
Had the Alliance performed better as polls had indicated earlier in the Parliament they could have surged and achieved a massive breakthrough like the SNP did in 2015. They didn't though, they lost. That's all.
It reminds me a little of -
"It shouldn't be Black Lives Matter, it should be Black Lives Matter too."
The government set up a laptop scheme, but it's taking a long time to get going and is probably insufficient. Some more details here:
https://schoolsweek.co.uk/third-of-pupils-arent-engaging-with-schoolwork-and-4-more-home-learning-findings/
From memory Starkey's whole point is something like:-
Tribe A wishes to expand and get access to something (say a lake) on Tribe B's land. With slavery Tribe A was able to remove Tribe B from the land without killing all of Tribe B (while making a profit as well but that's by the by).
Without slavery Tribe A would have just killed all of Tribe B instead. So while slavery is bad it's not quite as bad as the other option..
Just watched murder in the car park on channel 4 .Still on all 4.
The murder happened in 1987.
Sill no conviction after millions spent on it.
The talk of police corruption, links to the media, private investigation, was disturbing.
Fascinating watch.
As for Starkey, yes, I think it's clear he's racist which is quite disappointing. It would be interesting to find out what is driving his prejudice and I'd love to sit down and pick his brains on why he feels the way he does, as a clearly very intelligent person I'd love to get his perspective.
At the same time I do not think he is the right person in the office at this moment in time and hope that post 31st December he stands down.
Even if and when that happens he will still be Boris
All I'm seeking to do is tip off those who are not his supporters but are buying into the brand - by promulgating its "Boris" labeling - that this is what they are doing.
For these people the switch from "Boris" to "Johnson" might feel awkward at first - a little forced - but as with many good habits perseverance will pay off and once it's established they will feel better in themselves and will never look back.
And if enough do it, it will cost Bor ... Johnson big time. In fact it could all but kill him off imo. That's the prize.
BTW, I am pursuing this initiative in flesh & blood life too, not just on here. If somebody in my presence calls him "Boris", I ask them if they are a supporter of his or the Cons. If the answer to this is "No", then I tip them off. Not tick them off, please note, I tip them off (as above).
What were the given first names of:
Keir Hardie
Ramsay MacDonald
Harold Wilson
Gordon Brown
that they all dropped to create a more appealing persona?
The idea that Boris is some unique exploiter of the technique while other politicians, especially Labour ones, are just plain unvarnished articles sounds awfully like - what's the word? - gaslighting...
Give an unrestricted computer to a teenager, and you can pretty much guarantee it will be an unusable mess full of porn and viruses within a few days - alongside stories in the Daily Mail of outraged parents whose school didn’t lock down the computer properly.
We can be hard cop soft cop on this one.
Exactly the same as the unthinking moronic lefties who refer to Corbyn as "Jeremy" or even Jezza. He is Corbyn - an extremely thick ex-leader of the Labour Party who allowed Johnson, a lazy and incompetent narcissist to become PM.
Congratulations you've found a solution to a problem, shame the solution is going to add a £xbn to the education bill...
It’s rather amusing to watch people get completely wound up by names used for certain people - when in any other situation they’d say that we should absolutely call them whatever name they want us to use!