Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » On the day the Premiership returns the big political story is

2456

Comments

  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,766
    https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1273153243686805505

    BREAKING: Tory MP finds out they can't believe a word Johnson says.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,036
    Hancock must have been thinking of his favourite film:

    Harry Potter and the Government U-turn.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    So, closing DFID did not save the next day's headlines from being Rashford.

    Who runs No.10 comms?

    Never has 7% of GDP been sacrificed for so few.

    Its remarkable that the idea that bringing the UK into line with all but one member of the OECD as far as this is concerned might have been done because it was viewed as the right thing to do doesn't even enter your mind.
    I was being a bit flippant. Can't say I have a massive opinion one way or the other, but three ex-PMs have said its a bad idea. My point was more that why announce yesterday out of the blue? Seems to me that it was news management.
    Three ex-PMs being the three ex-PMs who did the opposite. Well there's a shock.

    PM reverses a previous PMs decision - previous PM is upset. How is that a news story?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,149
    murali_s said:

    murali_s said:

    Scott_xP said:
    A very impressive young man (and/or top class social media team - but having seen his interview, suspect it actually may be him) - on the headlines I suspect Downing St happier with

    Rashford - 1
    Johnson - 0

    Than

    Starmer - 1
    Johnson - 0

    Though again Starmer played this smarter than the Labour Party which tried to claim credit.
    The score is actually something like:

    Starmer / good guys 7
    Johnson / liars 0

    And like any good thrashing, it's good to see the goals shared around...

    A great bit of commentary on the seventh goal from Motto would be something like "...the ball whipped into the box and Rashford lashes it in between the legs of the hapless overweight keeper..."

    I can't even see a consolation goal for the liars anytime soon, can you?
    Do you think this would have gone through without Rashford’s intervention?
    It may have taken longer to u-turn without Rashford I guess so the boy did well. Classy guy!
    That's probably right. It didnt seem like that many people were fighting hard against a u turn, but despite being busy and only vaguely following the news I for one knew of Rashford's take on the matter, it was clearly effective intervention.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,620

    The Triple Lock needs to go. The economy is upside down with pensioners now better off than those in work.

    That the triple lock was introduced at the same time tuition fees were trebled showed what a disgrace it was.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,766
    Earlier I said 7% of GDP was DFID's, rather than 0.7%. Apologies.

    At least I know Rashford's first name is Miles.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,149

    So, closing DFID did not save the next day's headlines from being Rashford.

    Who runs No.10 comms?

    Never has 7% of GDP been sacrificed for so few.

    Its remarkable that the idea that bringing the UK into line with all but one member of the OECD as far as this is concerned might have been done because it was viewed as the right thing to do doesn't even enter your mind.
    I was being a bit flippant. Can't say I have a massive opinion one way or the other, but three ex-PMs have said its a bad idea. My point was more that why announce yesterday out of the blue? Seems to me that it was news management.
    Three ex-PMs being the three ex-PMs who did the opposite. Well there's a shock.

    PM reverses a previous PMs decision - previous PM is upset. How is that a news story?
    Its news because previous PMs are not typically moaning all the time about their successors (except on Brexit). It's not unprecedented, and it might well be expected theyd be against it, but I think its reasonable to consider such interventions as newsworthy.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,036

    Earlier I said 7% of GDP was DFID's, rather than 0.7%. Apologies.

    At least I know Rashford's first name is Miles.

    Well he's certainly miles better than Bozo
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited June 2020
    kle4 said:

    So, closing DFID did not save the next day's headlines from being Rashford.

    Who runs No.10 comms?

    Never has 7% of GDP been sacrificed for so few.

    Its remarkable that the idea that bringing the UK into line with all but one member of the OECD as far as this is concerned might have been done because it was viewed as the right thing to do doesn't even enter your mind.
    I was being a bit flippant. Can't say I have a massive opinion one way or the other, but three ex-PMs have said its a bad idea. My point was more that why announce yesterday out of the blue? Seems to me that it was news management.
    Three ex-PMs being the three ex-PMs who did the opposite. Well there's a shock.

    PM reverses a previous PMs decision - previous PM is upset. How is that a news story?
    Its news because previous PMs are not typically moaning all the time about their successors (except on Brexit). It's not unprecedented, and it might well be expected theyd be against it, but I think its reasonable to consider such interventions as newsworthy.
    They've certainly (post-Brexit) been moaning more regularly, which makes it easier to get involved again going forwards . . . the same thing happened with Thatcher she went through a period of relative silence then increasingly critical.

    Furthermore this was a specific denunciation of something that Blair had done and that Brown and Cameron had kept. Someone yesterday queried Major's silence on the matter but of course despite the fact that Major has been quite willing to be critical of Johnson what Johnson has done is bring the system back into line with what the system was like under Major before Blair split the FCO in two.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176

    Suspect a suspension for one year due to this technical anomaly wont be too damaging politically.

    As long as it is clear it is restored the following year.

    It would need to be a two year suspension.
    How so?
    Because its a two-year effect that the anomaly runs for.

    In the first year there is a major drop in wages, triple lock ensures a 2.5% rise in pensions.
    In the second year there is a major increase in wages (but really a reversion), triple lock ensures a major increase in pensions.

    To deal with the anomaly the lock needs to be suspended for two years, to cover both the fall and return back to where it was.
    So they don't really need to announce anything until the second year - unless they don't want to put pensions up by 2.5% in the first year.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    tlg86 said:

    Suspect a suspension for one year due to this technical anomaly wont be too damaging politically.

    As long as it is clear it is restored the following year.

    It would need to be a two year suspension.
    How so?
    Because its a two-year effect that the anomaly runs for.

    In the first year there is a major drop in wages, triple lock ensures a 2.5% rise in pensions.
    In the second year there is a major increase in wages (but really a reversion), triple lock ensures a major increase in pensions.

    To deal with the anomaly the lock needs to be suspended for two years, to cover both the fall and return back to where it was.
    So they don't really need to announce anything until the second year - unless they don't want to put pensions up by 2.5% in the first year.
    Well a 2.5% increase while there's been a 20% decrease for most workers would be quite extraordinary. A freeze would make more sense - and if there is a 2.5% increase this year then that will be taken for granted by next year when a new increase would be expected.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,102
    edited June 2020
    https://www.theguardian.com/media/2020/jun/16/leftwing-voters-lead-decline-in-trust-in-uk-news-media

    The weekly reach figures are interesting

    BBC - 45%
    Guardian -18%
    Mail on line -15%


    And Sky just 10%
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,620
    Cyclefree said:

    So - any news on pubs/restaurants opening?

    No.

    This is beyond pathetic. People are trying to plan. They have nothing to plan with. Breweries don’t know whether to start brewing. The grants are running out. Landlords are demanding rent. Furlough is running out. Costs are continuing. Losses continue to be made.

    If July 4 is the date bloody tell us. If it isn’t also bloody tell us.

    Long chat with Daughter last night and she is in despair. Her last throw of the dice is a GoFundMe appeal to see if that will help. If it doesn’t then she will be closing the doors for the last time, to add to the steady drip drip announcements round here of redundancies. There are families round here where both breadwinners are facing unemployment. Even Sellafield is cutting jobs.

    Meanwhile the government’s big announcement is about DiFiD. FFS!

    Its possible they want to see what the consequences of the shops reopening are.

    The last thing the government will want to do is say that hospitality can reopen and then a week later have to change its mind.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Cyclefree said:

    So - any news on pubs/restaurants opening?

    No.

    This is beyond pathetic. People are trying to plan. They have nothing to plan with. Breweries don’t know whether to start brewing. The grants are running out. Landlords are demanding rent. Furlough is running out. Costs are continuing. Losses continue to be made.

    If July 4 is the date bloody tell us. If it isn’t also bloody tell us.

    Long chat with Daughter last night and she is in despair. Her last throw of the dice is a GoFundMe appeal to see if that will help. If it doesn’t then she will be closing the doors for the last time, to add to the steady drip drip announcements round here of redundancies. There are families round here where both breadwinners are facing unemployment. Even Sellafield is cutting jobs.

    Meanwhile the government’s big announcement is about DiFiD. FFS!

    To be fair this is following the same timetabling system as previous lockdown lifts. The date has been announced as July 4 but subject to confirmation closer to the date depending upon the data closer to the date.

    Final confirmation likely won't come in until days before - the equivalent date for shops was announced weeks ago but the final confirmation for shops being able to open on the announced date only came a few days before the opening.

    Plan for July 4 is the statement as it stands.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222
    Football tonight: You can get 30 with BF on a 0-0 draw MC v ARS. That seems way too high to me. Just had a nibble with BF, though I took the 28 on the " first goalscorer" market (to protect against own goals).
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Interesting observation from James Forsyth on R4 - new Tory MPs are thinking more like US Congressmen “what’s in it for my constituents” than “what’s the party line” - hence the growing revolt over free school meals where lots of “red wall” Tory MPs have plenty of constituents who are in receipt of them. Which makes an ideologically driven No.10 even less fit for purpose.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,620
    If I was the government I would announce a one year increase in the top rate of tax to 50%.

    It would be unofficially dubbed the Rashford tax.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,102
    Cyclefree said:

    So - any news on pubs/restaurants opening?

    No.

    This is beyond pathetic. People are trying to plan. They have nothing to plan with. Breweries don’t know whether to start brewing. The grants are running out. Landlords are demanding rent. Furlough is running out. Costs are continuing. Losses continue to be made.

    If July 4 is the date bloody tell us. If it isn’t also bloody tell us.

    Long chat with Daughter last night and she is in despair. Her last throw of the dice is a GoFundMe appeal to see if that will help. If it doesn’t then she will be closing the doors for the last time, to add to the steady drip drip announcements round here of redundancies. There are families round here where both breadwinners are facing unemployment. Even Sellafield is cutting jobs.

    Meanwhile the government’s big announcement is about DiFiD. FFS!

    As for the public the big announcement was schools meals

    DIFID will only register in the political bubble, I doubt the public care
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,149

    Cyclefree said:

    So - any news on pubs/restaurants opening?

    No.

    This is beyond pathetic. People are trying to plan. They have nothing to plan with. Breweries don’t know whether to start brewing. The grants are running out. Landlords are demanding rent. Furlough is running out. Costs are continuing. Losses continue to be made.

    If July 4 is the date bloody tell us. If it isn’t also bloody tell us.

    Long chat with Daughter last night and she is in despair. Her last throw of the dice is a GoFundMe appeal to see if that will help. If it doesn’t then she will be closing the doors for the last time, to add to the steady drip drip announcements round here of redundancies. There are families round here where both breadwinners are facing unemployment. Even Sellafield is cutting jobs.

    Meanwhile the government’s big announcement is about DiFiD. FFS!

    Its possible they want to see what the consequences of the shops reopening are.

    The last thing the government will want to do is say that hospitality can reopen and then a week later have to change its mind.
    Yes I think that's reasonable. Government has had plenty of failures in this but I think Cyclefree in some instances is expecting too much decisiveness from it, decisiveness which I dobt doubt would be criticised if the date were then changed by a single day. I dont doubt it as we've seen it happen before. This isnt a plea to go easy on government but our expectations of how definitive they can be is a bit skewed.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868

    If I was the government I would announce a one year increase in the top rate of tax to 50%.

    It would be unofficially dubbed the Rashford tax.

    Incomes over £250k, two year windfall tax, 60%. "We're all in this together".
  • SurreySurrey Posts: 190
    edited June 2020
    FPT: I'm no expert on US law, but ISTM that support from the following would be sufficient to force Trump out using the 25th amendment:

    * Mike Pence
    * and 3-4 republican senators (not the 20 required for impeachment).

    This is because what is needed is support from "the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide"...

    ...so majorities in both chambers would be enough to establish the said body, and a majority in the Senate would be constituted by 47 ~Dems plus 3 Reps plus Pence. Or if the number 50 is subject to quibble because of Pence who is not a senator getting two bites of the cherry, then 4 Rep senators would clinch it.


  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222
    Cyclefree said:

    So - any news on pubs/restaurants opening?

    No.

    This is beyond pathetic. People are trying to plan. They have nothing to plan with. Breweries don’t know whether to start brewing. The grants are running out. Landlords are demanding rent. Furlough is running out. Costs are continuing. Losses continue to be made.

    If July 4 is the date bloody tell us. If it isn’t also bloody tell us.

    Long chat with Daughter last night and she is in despair. Her last throw of the dice is a GoFundMe appeal to see if that will help. If it doesn’t then she will be closing the doors for the last time, to add to the steady drip drip announcements round here of redundancies. There are families round here where both breadwinners are facing unemployment. Even Sellafield is cutting jobs.

    Meanwhile the government’s big announcement is about DiFiD. FFS!

    And being frit and pandering to rich celebrities.

    My strong hunch is that your daughter can plan for July 4th with a high degree of confidence.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,533
    Cyclefree said:

    So - any news on pubs/restaurants opening?

    No.

    This is beyond pathetic. People are trying to plan. They have nothing to plan with. Breweries don’t know whether to start brewing. The grants are running out. Landlords are demanding rent. Furlough is running out. Costs are continuing. Losses continue to be made.

    If July 4 is the date bloody tell us. If it isn’t also bloody tell us.

    Long chat with Daughter last night and she is in despair. Her last throw of the dice is a GoFundMe appeal to see if that will help. If it doesn’t then she will be closing the doors for the last time, to add to the steady drip drip announcements round here of redundancies. There are families round here where both breadwinners are facing unemployment. Even Sellafield is cutting jobs.

    Meanwhile the government’s big announcement is about DiFiD. FFS!

    Sympathies - I'm not sure what I'd decide on pub reopening if I was the Government, but I'd get that I needed to decide something one way or the other. I hope she can pull through.

    Messing about with DfID is displacement activity (like planning major local government reorganisation this autumn, as I said yesterday), and as Hancock said this morning it wasn't discussed with Cabinet as it's a reserve decision for the PM. So Johnson's focus over recent days has been departmental reshuffling, with a brief pause to absent-mindedly respond to a footballer's campaign that you may or may not have noticed the previous day. Oh, and having a Union Jack painted on your aircraft. Does that make sense, even if you actually agree with all these actions?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868

    Cyclefree said:

    So - any news on pubs/restaurants opening?

    No.

    This is beyond pathetic. People are trying to plan. They have nothing to plan with. Breweries don’t know whether to start brewing. The grants are running out. Landlords are demanding rent. Furlough is running out. Costs are continuing. Losses continue to be made.

    If July 4 is the date bloody tell us. If it isn’t also bloody tell us.

    Long chat with Daughter last night and she is in despair. Her last throw of the dice is a GoFundMe appeal to see if that will help. If it doesn’t then she will be closing the doors for the last time, to add to the steady drip drip announcements round here of redundancies. There are families round here where both breadwinners are facing unemployment. Even Sellafield is cutting jobs.

    Meanwhile the government’s big announcement is about DiFiD. FFS!

    Its possible they want to see what the consequences of the shops reopening are.

    The last thing the government will want to do is say that hospitality can reopen and then a week later have to change its mind.
    An end to all the chopping and changing and erring and umming would certainly be an improvement.
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382

    Cyclefree said:

    So - any news on pubs/restaurants opening?

    No.

    This is beyond pathetic. People are trying to plan. They have nothing to plan with. Breweries don’t know whether to start brewing. The grants are running out. Landlords are demanding rent. Furlough is running out. Costs are continuing. Losses continue to be made.

    If July 4 is the date bloody tell us. If it isn’t also bloody tell us.

    Long chat with Daughter last night and she is in despair. Her last throw of the dice is a GoFundMe appeal to see if that will help. If it doesn’t then she will be closing the doors for the last time, to add to the steady drip drip announcements round here of redundancies. There are families round here where both breadwinners are facing unemployment. Even Sellafield is cutting jobs.

    Meanwhile the government’s big announcement is about DiFiD. FFS!

    To be fair this is following the same timetabling system as previous lockdown lifts. The date has been announced as July 4 but subject to confirmation closer to the date depending upon the data closer to the date.

    Final confirmation likely won't come in until days before - the equivalent date for shops was announced weeks ago but the final confirmation for shops being able to open on the announced date only came a few days before the opening.

    Plan for July 4 is the statement as it stands.
    As ever on message.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,620

    Interesting observation from James Forsyth on R4 - new Tory MPs are thinking more like US Congressmen “what’s in it for my constituents” than “what’s the party line” - hence the growing revolt over free school meals where lots of “red wall” Tory MPs have plenty of constituents who are in receipt of them. Which makes an ideologically driven No.10 even less fit for purpose.

    I wonder if globaliser Conservatives such as Marcus Hannan have realised this yet.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    tlg86 said:

    Suspect a suspension for one year due to this technical anomaly wont be too damaging politically.

    As long as it is clear it is restored the following year.

    It would need to be a two year suspension.
    How so?
    Because its a two-year effect that the anomaly runs for.

    In the first year there is a major drop in wages, triple lock ensures a 2.5% rise in pensions.
    In the second year there is a major increase in wages (but really a reversion), triple lock ensures a major increase in pensions.

    To deal with the anomaly the lock needs to be suspended for two years, to cover both the fall and return back to where it was.
    So they don't really need to announce anything until the second year - unless they don't want to put pensions up by 2.5% in the first year.
    It would be better, and easier, to flag changes now.

    Personally I would go the whole way and announce a merger of tax and NI, as well.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Cyclefree said:

    So - any news on pubs/restaurants opening?

    No.

    This is beyond pathetic. People are trying to plan. They have nothing to plan with. Breweries don’t know whether to start brewing. The grants are running out. Landlords are demanding rent. Furlough is running out. Costs are continuing. Losses continue to be made.

    If July 4 is the date bloody tell us. If it isn’t also bloody tell us.

    Long chat with Daughter last night and she is in despair. Her last throw of the dice is a GoFundMe appeal to see if that will help. If it doesn’t then she will be closing the doors for the last time, to add to the steady drip drip announcements round here of redundancies. There are families round here where both breadwinners are facing unemployment. Even Sellafield is cutting jobs.

    Meanwhile the government’s big announcement is about DiFiD. FFS!

    To be fair this is following the same timetabling system as previous lockdown lifts. The date has been announced as July 4 but subject to confirmation closer to the date depending upon the data closer to the date.

    Final confirmation likely won't come in until days before - the equivalent date for shops was announced weeks ago but the final confirmation for shops being able to open on the announced date only came a few days before the opening.

    Plan for July 4 is the statement as it stands.
    As ever on message.
    Not really. I've been very critical on certain aspects.

    In particular I think its simply wrong that beer gardens aren't open yet. But as far as the announcement of a date is concerned that is following the prior guidance.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,805
    I remain unpersuaded by the wisdom of windfall taxes or taxing people on the basis of hitting groups/individuals for the crime of having a lot of income rather than trying to increase the revenue.

    Punitive taxation does not sit well with me.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,620
    IanB2 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    So - any news on pubs/restaurants opening?

    No.

    This is beyond pathetic. People are trying to plan. They have nothing to plan with. Breweries don’t know whether to start brewing. The grants are running out. Landlords are demanding rent. Furlough is running out. Costs are continuing. Losses continue to be made.

    If July 4 is the date bloody tell us. If it isn’t also bloody tell us.

    Long chat with Daughter last night and she is in despair. Her last throw of the dice is a GoFundMe appeal to see if that will help. If it doesn’t then she will be closing the doors for the last time, to add to the steady drip drip announcements round here of redundancies. There are families round here where both breadwinners are facing unemployment. Even Sellafield is cutting jobs.

    Meanwhile the government’s big announcement is about DiFiD. FFS!

    Its possible they want to see what the consequences of the shops reopening are.

    The last thing the government will want to do is say that hospitality can reopen and then a week later have to change its mind.
    An end to all the chopping and changing and erring and umming would certainly be an improvement.
    A consequence of continuous media coverage - people are always under pressure to say something.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,139
    IanB2 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Suspect a suspension for one year due to this technical anomaly wont be too damaging politically.

    As long as it is clear it is restored the following year.

    It would need to be a two year suspension.
    How so?
    Because its a two-year effect that the anomaly runs for.

    In the first year there is a major drop in wages, triple lock ensures a 2.5% rise in pensions.
    In the second year there is a major increase in wages (but really a reversion), triple lock ensures a major increase in pensions.

    To deal with the anomaly the lock needs to be suspended for two years, to cover both the fall and return back to where it was.
    So they don't really need to announce anything until the second year - unless they don't want to put pensions up by 2.5% in the first year.
    It would be better, and easier, to flag changes now.

    Personally I would go the whole way and announce a merger of tax and NI, as well.
    No, NI was set up to fund state pensions and contributory unemployment benefits and healthcare only and should return to funding just that
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381
    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:
    So getting someone’s first name wrong is now a major mistake. Understood.

    I’m going to be in real trouble.
    It demonstrates a disrespectful disinterest. Dare I say, that would apply equally to Mr Hancock and a teacher who couldn't address their students appropriately.
    If you teach ten classes, you might have over 300 names to memorise.

    Good luck getting all of those right all the time.

    I once had so much difficulty remembering the names of one very large class I wrote a detailed report for a student that was home schooled. Fortunately my then boss spotted it.
    With the passion you demonstrate for education on here, I suspect errors are seldom made.

    Back in my pre-PC schooldays the most disnterested and self-important teachers used devices to avoid remembering names, for example 'you, Ginger in the corner' or 'you, the girl at the back with the big jugs'. I recall a TV play where Paul Eddington's teacher character continually referred to a particular girl as Miss broad in the beam'. My favourite teachers were those who always prefixed ones correct surname with a title.

    Back to Hancock. Getting the name wrong is a big deal. After yesterday's furore, one would have thought it burned into his brain.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868

    Cyclefree said:

    So - any news on pubs/restaurants opening?

    No.

    This is beyond pathetic. People are trying to plan. They have nothing to plan with. Breweries don’t know whether to start brewing. The grants are running out. Landlords are demanding rent. Furlough is running out. Costs are continuing. Losses continue to be made.

    If July 4 is the date bloody tell us. If it isn’t also bloody tell us.

    Long chat with Daughter last night and she is in despair. Her last throw of the dice is a GoFundMe appeal to see if that will help. If it doesn’t then she will be closing the doors for the last time, to add to the steady drip drip announcements round here of redundancies. There are families round here where both breadwinners are facing unemployment. Even Sellafield is cutting jobs.

    Meanwhile the government’s big announcement is about DiFiD. FFS!

    Sympathies - I'm not sure what I'd decide on pub reopening if I was the Government, but I'd get that I needed to decide something one way or the other. I hope she can pull through.

    Messing about with DfID is displacement activity (like planning major local government reorganisation this autumn, as I said yesterday), and as Hancock said this morning it wasn't discussed with Cabinet as it's a reserve decision for the PM. So Johnson's focus over recent days has been departmental reshuffling, with a brief pause to absent-mindedly respond to a footballer's campaign that you may or may not have noticed the previous day. Oh, and having a Union Jack painted on your aircraft. Does that make sense, even if you actually agree with all these actions?
    He's only interested in how things look; anything else is detailed work he is happy to leave to others.

    I recall a conversation I once heard him have behind the scenes with his mayoral advisers, which went along the lines of "I need to announce something on the environment; it doesn't matter what it is but I need to be seen doing more on green issues. Find me something to announce"
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,464

    Interesting observation from James Forsyth on R4 - new Tory MPs are thinking more like US Congressmen “what’s in it for my constituents” than “what’s the party line” - hence the growing revolt over free school meals where lots of “red wall” Tory MPs have plenty of constituents who are in receipt of them. Which makes an ideologically driven No.10 even less fit for purpose.

    That's not a bad move, unless it goes too far. Also suggests that they're thinking that, post-Brexit, their seats are not, by any means, 'safe'.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,139

    If I was the government I would announce a one year increase in the top rate of tax to 50%.

    It would be unofficially dubbed the Rashford tax.

    Just for Premiership footballers you mean
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,139

    Interesting observation from James Forsyth on R4 - new Tory MPs are thinking more like US Congressmen “what’s in it for my constituents” than “what’s the party line” - hence the growing revolt over free school meals where lots of “red wall” Tory MPs have plenty of constituents who are in receipt of them. Which makes an ideologically driven No.10 even less fit for purpose.

    https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1272937984837292032?s=20
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868

    I remain unpersuaded by the wisdom of windfall taxes or taxing people on the basis of hitting groups/individuals for the crime of having a lot of income rather than trying to increase the revenue.

    Punitive taxation does not sit well with me.

    I think it's time for footballers to put their money where their mouths are. It's one thing to be charitable, now they are asking for additional taxpayer spending, well that money needs to come from somewhere.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Suspect a suspension for one year due to this technical anomaly wont be too damaging politically.

    As long as it is clear it is restored the following year.

    It would need to be a two year suspension.
    How so?
    Because its a two-year effect that the anomaly runs for.

    In the first year there is a major drop in wages, triple lock ensures a 2.5% rise in pensions.
    In the second year there is a major increase in wages (but really a reversion), triple lock ensures a major increase in pensions.

    To deal with the anomaly the lock needs to be suspended for two years, to cover both the fall and return back to where it was.
    So they don't really need to announce anything until the second year - unless they don't want to put pensions up by 2.5% in the first year.
    It would be better, and easier, to flag changes now.

    Personally I would go the whole way and announce a merger of tax and NI, as well.
    No, NI was set up to fund state pensions and contributory unemployment benefits and healthcare only and should return to funding just that
    Well, like so many of your predictions, we can all see immediately that that's never going to happen.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176

    Interesting observation from James Forsyth on R4 - new Tory MPs are thinking more like US Congressmen “what’s in it for my constituents” than “what’s the party line” - hence the growing revolt over free school meals where lots of “red wall” Tory MPs have plenty of constituents who are in receipt of them. Which makes an ideologically driven No.10 even less fit for purpose.

    I'm not sure the new Tory seats have proportionally that many more children in receipt of FSM:

    https://lginform.local.gov.uk/reports/lgastandard?mod-metric=2174&mod-area=E92000001&mod-type=namedComparisonGroup&mod-group=ADASSRegions_NorthEastern

    The areas with the high numbers are still Labour seats.
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 5,005

    Suspect a suspension for one year due to this technical anomaly wont be too damaging politically.

    As long as it is clear it is restored the following year.

    If there wasnt a triple lock in place can someone explain the need for one to be created? If we wanted to maintain the gap and keep pensioners richer than workers that could be done by linking pensions just with earnings. Why is there a need to make pensioners even richer than workers?

    How is this good for society?
    Why have it?

    Pensioners vote. In a greater proportion than the young.

    Politicians give those who vote in greater proportion more goodies.

    The rest is largely rationalisation.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,102
    HYUFD said:

    Interesting observation from James Forsyth on R4 - new Tory MPs are thinking more like US Congressmen “what’s in it for my constituents” than “what’s the party line” - hence the growing revolt over free school meals where lots of “red wall” Tory MPs have plenty of constituents who are in receipt of them. Which makes an ideologically driven No.10 even less fit for purpose.

    https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1272937984837292032?s=20
    That should not be relevant to the decision

    Doing the right thing is
  • GadflyGadfly Posts: 1,191
    Cyclefree said:

    So - any news on pubs/restaurants opening?

    No.

    This is beyond pathetic. People are trying to plan. They have nothing to plan with. Breweries don’t know whether to start brewing. The grants are running out. Landlords are demanding rent. Furlough is running out. Costs are continuing. Losses continue to be made.

    If July 4 is the date bloody tell us. If it isn’t also bloody tell us.

    Long chat with Daughter last night and she is in despair. Her last throw of the dice is a GoFundMe appeal to see if that will help. If it doesn’t then she will be closing the doors for the last time, to add to the steady drip drip announcements round here of redundancies. There are families round here where both breadwinners are facing unemployment. Even Sellafield is cutting jobs.

    Meanwhile the government’s big announcement is about DiFiD. FFS!

    I have every sympathy with your daughter's situation but it does seem possible that the likes of pubs could prove risky.

    https://twitter.com/annehelen/status/1272909655321088001?s=20
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,139
    Cyclefree said:

    So - any news on pubs/restaurants opening?

    No.

    This is beyond pathetic. People are trying to plan. They have nothing to plan with. Breweries don’t know whether to start brewing. The grants are running out. Landlords are demanding rent. Furlough is running out. Costs are continuing. Losses continue to be made.

    If July 4 is the date bloody tell us. If it isn’t also bloody tell us.

    Long chat with Daughter last night and she is in despair. Her last throw of the dice is a GoFundMe appeal to see if that will help. If it doesn’t then she will be closing the doors for the last time, to add to the steady drip drip announcements round here of redundancies. There are families round here where both breadwinners are facing unemployment. Even Sellafield is cutting jobs.

    Meanwhile the government’s big announcement is about DiFiD. FFS!

    The timetable remains, pubs and restaurants and cafes will reopen in July with social distancing. Your daughter should still be preparing on that basis.

    Yet the government is still funding furlough for workers until October showing how benevolent it has been on this
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,250
    edited June 2020
    MaxPB said:

    If I was the government I would announce a one year increase in the top rate of tax to 50%.

    It would be unofficially dubbed the Rashford tax.

    Incomes over £250k, two year windfall tax, 60%. "We're all in this together".
    How much will that raise?

    Suspect that the amount would be small - though 60% is a good chunk more than 50%, which would just be symbolic.

    If we follow normal principles, we are after 100bn a year. 100bn a year is about 13-15p on income tax across the board.
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382

    Interesting observation from James Forsyth on R4 - new Tory MPs are thinking more like US Congressmen “what’s in it for my constituents” than “what’s the party line” - hence the growing revolt over free school meals where lots of “red wall” Tory MPs have plenty of constituents who are in receipt of them. Which makes an ideologically driven No.10 even less fit for purpose.

    That's not a bad move, unless it goes too far. Also suggests that they're thinking that, post-Brexit, their seats are not, by any means, 'safe'.
    It is not post Brexit that matters but post Corbyn. The big change in politics is that LAB now has a leader who appears electable.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381
    MaxPB said:

    I remain unpersuaded by the wisdom of windfall taxes or taxing people on the basis of hitting groups/individuals for the crime of having a lot of income rather than trying to increase the revenue.

    Punitive taxation does not sit well with me.

    I think it's time for footballers to put their money where their mouths are. It's one thing to be charitable, now they are asking for additional taxpayer spending, well that money needs to come from somewhere.
    Just footballers? Or will you include Captains of Industry etc. in the equation?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    edited June 2020
    HYUFD said:

    Interesting observation from James Forsyth on R4 - new Tory MPs are thinking more like US Congressmen “what’s in it for my constituents” than “what’s the party line” - hence the growing revolt over free school meals where lots of “red wall” Tory MPs have plenty of constituents who are in receipt of them. Which makes an ideologically driven No.10 even less fit for purpose.

    https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1272937984837292032?s=20
    Misleading in the extreme. Middlesbrough (26.9%) and Darlington (17.0%) are both above the England average (14.1%), but the former is a lot more than the average.

    https://lginform.local.gov.uk/reports/lgastandard?mod-metric=2174&mod-area=E92000001&mod-type=namedComparisonGroup&mod-group=ADASSRegions_NorthEastern
  • SurreySurrey Posts: 190
    Surrey said:

    FPT: I'm no expert on US law, but ISTM that support from the following would be sufficient to force Trump out using the 25th amendment:

    * Mike Pence
    * and 3-4 republican senators (not the 20 required for impeachment).

    This is because what is needed is support from "the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide"...

    ...so majorities in both chambers would be enough to establish the said body, and a majority in the Senate would be constituted by 47 ~Dems plus 3 Reps plus Pence. Or if the number 50 is subject to quibble because of Pence who is not a senator getting two bites of the cherry, then 4 Rep senators would clinch it.

    I missed the italicised word "temporarily" after "force Trump out", because 20 Rep senators would be required once he had been out for 4 + 21 days or possibly 4 + a greater number of days if Congress depending on the scheduling of Congress sessions.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,139
    Sandpit said:

    Suspect a suspension for one year due to this technical anomaly wont be too damaging politically.

    As long as it is clear it is restored the following year.

    If there wasnt a triple lock in place can someone explain the need for one to be created? If we wanted to maintain the gap and keep pensioners richer than workers that could be done by linking pensions just with earnings. Why is there a need to make pensioners even richer than workers?

    How is this good for society?
    The full state pension is £134.25 per week, seven grand a year, or equivalent to working 15.3 hours per week at minimum wage. Doesn’t sound like state pensioners are particularly rich.
    Only 43% of British pensioners income now comes from the state pension as take up of private workplace pensions has increased significantly

    https://fullfact.org/europe/pensioners-eu-uk/
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,837
    edited June 2020
    HYUFD said:

    Interesting observation from James Forsyth on R4 - new Tory MPs are thinking more like US Congressmen “what’s in it for my constituents” than “what’s the party line” - hence the growing revolt over free school meals where lots of “red wall” Tory MPs have plenty of constituents who are in receipt of them. Which makes an ideologically driven No.10 even less fit for purpose.

    https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1272937984837292032?s=20
    No 10 is more focus group driven than ideologically driven. That is why they spend their time worrying about things like the colour of a plane rather than tackle the real problems. It wont mind the piecemeal pork barrel approach at all.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,466
    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:
    So getting someone’s first name wrong is now a major mistake. Understood.

    I’m going to be in real trouble.
    It demonstrates a disrespectful disinterest. Dare I say, that would apply equally to Mr Hancock and a teacher who couldn't address their students appropriately.
    If you teach ten classes, you might have over 300 names to memorise.

    Good luck getting all of those right all the time.

    I once had so much difficulty remembering the names of one very large class I wrote a detailed report for a student that was home schooled. Fortunately my then boss spotted it.
    I have a school report with the wrong first name. (There were similarities in the family name, and no harm done.), I struggle with the students at Uni - by 4th year I might know about a third well, but total cohort of over 400 makes it tough.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,851
    On DfID - A lot of criticism levelled at the government. But personally I'd like to know why they have done this? Have I missed the explanation somewhere? The response, typically, appears to equate it with the slaughtering of the first born. But what is going on here? On the surface it's just an administrative move - do critics believe the foreign office cannot be trusted with the aid budget?

    And what is the advantage to the government in this move. Will they tell us or is it up to the twitterati to deduce.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868

    MaxPB said:

    I remain unpersuaded by the wisdom of windfall taxes or taxing people on the basis of hitting groups/individuals for the crime of having a lot of income rather than trying to increase the revenue.

    Punitive taxation does not sit well with me.

    I think it's time for footballers to put their money where their mouths are. It's one thing to be charitable, now they are asking for additional taxpayer spending, well that money needs to come from somewhere.
    Just footballers? Or will you include Captains of Industry etc. in the equation?
    CEOs as well, I think £250k is a reasonable level which gets the actually very rich. My only worry is that it would be difficult to get rid of.
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,067
    Male or female - just an ugly overweight racist individual!
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,766

    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:
    So getting someone’s first name wrong is now a major mistake. Understood.

    I’m going to be in real trouble.
    It demonstrates a disrespectful disinterest. Dare I say, that would apply equally to Mr Hancock and a teacher who couldn't address their students appropriately.
    If you teach ten classes, you might have over 300 names to memorise.

    Good luck getting all of those right all the time.

    I once had so much difficulty remembering the names of one very large class I wrote a detailed report for a student that was home schooled. Fortunately my then boss spotted it.
    I have a school report with the wrong first name. (There were similarities in the family name, and no harm done.), I struggle with the students at Uni - by 4th year I might know about a third well, but total cohort of over 400 makes it tough.
    Telegraph: "The Prime Minister said Britain’s aid spending would no longer be “some giant cashpoint in the sky” "

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,139
    edited June 2020
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    I remain unpersuaded by the wisdom of windfall taxes or taxing people on the basis of hitting groups/individuals for the crime of having a lot of income rather than trying to increase the revenue.

    Punitive taxation does not sit well with me.

    I think it's time for footballers to put their money where their mouths are. It's one thing to be charitable, now they are asking for additional taxpayer spending, well that money needs to come from somewhere.
    Just footballers? Or will you include Captains of Industry etc. in the equation?
    CEOs as well, I think £250k is a reasonable level which gets the actually very rich. My only worry is that it would be difficult to get rid of.
    If you want a 50%+ top rate of income tax then you should be voting Labour as it was a policy of Brown, Ed Miliband, Corbyn and now is a policy of Starmer.

    Osborne cut the top rate of income tax back to 45% after Darling raised it to 50%
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,466

    Cyclefree said:

    So - any news on pubs/restaurants opening?

    No.

    This is beyond pathetic. People are trying to plan. They have nothing to plan with. Breweries don’t know whether to start brewing. The grants are running out. Landlords are demanding rent. Furlough is running out. Costs are continuing. Losses continue to be made.

    If July 4 is the date bloody tell us. If it isn’t also bloody tell us.

    Long chat with Daughter last night and she is in despair. Her last throw of the dice is a GoFundMe appeal to see if that will help. If it doesn’t then she will be closing the doors for the last time, to add to the steady drip drip announcements round here of redundancies. There are families round here where both breadwinners are facing unemployment. Even Sellafield is cutting jobs.

    Meanwhile the government’s big announcement is about DiFiD. FFS!

    To be fair this is following the same timetabling system as previous lockdown lifts. The date has been announced as July 4 but subject to confirmation closer to the date depending upon the data closer to the date.

    Final confirmation likely won't come in until days before - the equivalent date for shops was announced weeks ago but the final confirmation for shops being able to open on the announced date only came a few days before the opening.

    Plan for July 4 is the statement as it stands.
    As ever on message.
    Maybe, but also probably correct.
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 5,005
    MaxPB said:

    I remain unpersuaded by the wisdom of windfall taxes or taxing people on the basis of hitting groups/individuals for the crime of having a lot of income rather than trying to increase the revenue.

    Punitive taxation does not sit well with me.

    I think it's time for footballers to put their money where their mouths are. It's one thing to be charitable, now they are asking for additional taxpayer spending, well that money needs to come from somewhere.
    To be fair, the amount needed (if it is £140 million) equates to:

    - 2 days of the contributions we have saved thanks to leaving the EU (assuming the £350 million per week figure was correct and appropriate)

    or

    - half a day of the annual spend on the State Pension
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    On DfID - A lot of criticism levelled at the government. But personally I'd like to know why they have done this? Have I missed the explanation somewhere? The response, typically, appears to equate it with the slaughtering of the first born. But what is going on here? On the surface it's just an administrative move - do critics believe the foreign office cannot be trusted with the aid budget?

    And what is the advantage to the government in this move. Will they tell us or is it up to the twitterati to deduce.

    Johnson gave a statement going into detail in Parliament yesterday.

    Basically it is joining up and coordinating policy. Currently eg an Ambassador to a country isn't aware of or responsible for the aid to that country, but now it will all be co-ordinated together. Johnson gave an example in Parliament to a critical question that there is no point an Ambassador to a nation saying in one day that a government shouldn't execute a political opponent only to have another representative from the UK give hundreds of millions the next day in Aid.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    MaxPB said:

    I remain unpersuaded by the wisdom of windfall taxes or taxing people on the basis of hitting groups/individuals for the crime of having a lot of income rather than trying to increase the revenue.

    Punitive taxation does not sit well with me.

    I think it's time for footballers to put their money where their mouths are. It's one thing to be charitable, now they are asking for additional taxpayer spending, well that money needs to come from somewhere.
    To be fair, the amount needed (if it is £140 million) equates to:

    - 2 days of the contributions we have saved thanks to leaving the EU (assuming the £350 million per week figure was correct and appropriate)

    or

    - half a day of the annual spend on the State Pension
    And it is less than the tax the government will raise this week from the Premier League alone.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,555
    Sandpit said:

    Suspect a suspension for one year due to this technical anomaly wont be too damaging politically.

    As long as it is clear it is restored the following year.

    If there wasnt a triple lock in place can someone explain the need for one to be created? If we wanted to maintain the gap and keep pensioners richer than workers that could be done by linking pensions just with earnings. Why is there a need to make pensioners even richer than workers?

    How is this good for society?
    The full state pension is £134.25 per week, seven grand a year, or equivalent to working 15.3 hours per week at minimum wage. Doesn’t sound like state pensioners are particularly rich.
    Not a pensioner so no expert. AgeUK says the full pension is £175.20. can anyone adjudicate?

  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    I suppose new Tory seats v existing Tory seats might have a bigger gap in terms of FSM %, but those new seats aren't all that different. It's the inner cities where the big %s are.

    The NW is interesting:

    https://lginform.local.gov.uk/reports/lgastandard?mod-metric=2174&mod-area=E92000001&mod-group=ADASSRegions_NorthWestern&mod-type=namedComparisonGroup

    Labour hold three seats in Cheshire West and Chester unitary authority. Admittedly Ellesmere Port & Neston, City of Chester, and Weaver Vale probably have a higher percentage of kids on FSM than Eddisbury, but even so it just shows how that part of the world is quite different.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,620
    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    I remain unpersuaded by the wisdom of windfall taxes or taxing people on the basis of hitting groups/individuals for the crime of having a lot of income rather than trying to increase the revenue.

    Punitive taxation does not sit well with me.

    I think it's time for footballers to put their money where their mouths are. It's one thing to be charitable, now they are asking for additional taxpayer spending, well that money needs to come from somewhere.
    Just footballers? Or will you include Captains of Industry etc. in the equation?
    CEOs as well, I think £250k is a reasonable level which gets the actually very rich. My only worry is that it would be difficult to get rid of.
    If you want a 50% top rate of income tax then you should be voting Labour as it was a policy of Brown, Ed Miliband, Corbyn and now Starmer.

    Osborne cut the top rate of income tax back to 45% after Darling raised it to 50%
    Thatcher had it at 60% for nine years.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,555

    MaxPB said:

    I remain unpersuaded by the wisdom of windfall taxes or taxing people on the basis of hitting groups/individuals for the crime of having a lot of income rather than trying to increase the revenue.

    Punitive taxation does not sit well with me.

    I think it's time for footballers to put their money where their mouths are. It's one thing to be charitable, now they are asking for additional taxpayer spending, well that money needs to come from somewhere.
    To be fair, the amount needed (if it is £140 million) equates to:

    - 2 days of the contributions we have saved thanks to leaving the EU (assuming the £350 million per week figure was correct and appropriate)

    or

    - half a day of the annual spend on the State Pension
    Indeed. If spending so little solves a hunger problem why doesn't the expenditure of eye watering billions already on the same group already solve it?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    edited June 2020
    algarkirk said:

    Sandpit said:

    Suspect a suspension for one year due to this technical anomaly wont be too damaging politically.

    As long as it is clear it is restored the following year.

    If there wasnt a triple lock in place can someone explain the need for one to be created? If we wanted to maintain the gap and keep pensioners richer than workers that could be done by linking pensions just with earnings. Why is there a need to make pensioners even richer than workers?

    How is this good for society?
    The full state pension is £134.25 per week, seven grand a year, or equivalent to working 15.3 hours per week at minimum wage. Doesn’t sound like state pensioners are particularly rich.
    Not a pensioner so no expert. AgeUK says the full pension is £175.20. can anyone adjudicate?

    He has the old figure before the pension reforms came in?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381
    If Boris were transformed into Heidi Klum it would still be a no. The mind would remain dark, devious, malign and self-serving.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868

    MaxPB said:

    I remain unpersuaded by the wisdom of windfall taxes or taxing people on the basis of hitting groups/individuals for the crime of having a lot of income rather than trying to increase the revenue.

    Punitive taxation does not sit well with me.

    I think it's time for footballers to put their money where their mouths are. It's one thing to be charitable, now they are asking for additional taxpayer spending, well that money needs to come from somewhere.
    To be fair, the amount needed (if it is £140 million) equates to:

    - 2 days of the contributions we have saved thanks to leaving the EU (assuming the £350 million per week figure was correct and appropriate)

    or

    - half a day of the annual spend on the State Pension
    For me it's more about punishing the footballers.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,139
    edited June 2020

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    I remain unpersuaded by the wisdom of windfall taxes or taxing people on the basis of hitting groups/individuals for the crime of having a lot of income rather than trying to increase the revenue.

    Punitive taxation does not sit well with me.

    I think it's time for footballers to put their money where their mouths are. It's one thing to be charitable, now they are asking for additional taxpayer spending, well that money needs to come from somewhere.
    Just footballers? Or will you include Captains of Industry etc. in the equation?
    CEOs as well, I think £250k is a reasonable level which gets the actually very rich. My only worry is that it would be difficult to get rid of.
    If you want a 50% top rate of income tax then you should be voting Labour as it was a policy of Brown, Ed Miliband, Corbyn and now Starmer.

    Osborne cut the top rate of income tax back to 45% after Darling raised it to 50%
    Thatcher had it at 60% for nine years.
    Thatcher inherited a top income tax rate of 83% in 1979, she left office with the top rate of income tax slashed to just 40% by 1990.

    No PM cut the top rate of income tax over their premiership more than Thatcher did
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Is there a list anywhere of which football games are available Free To Air?

    I believe the Merseyside Derby is this weekend but not sure which other games are.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,837
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    I remain unpersuaded by the wisdom of windfall taxes or taxing people on the basis of hitting groups/individuals for the crime of having a lot of income rather than trying to increase the revenue.

    Punitive taxation does not sit well with me.

    I think it's time for footballers to put their money where their mouths are. It's one thing to be charitable, now they are asking for additional taxpayer spending, well that money needs to come from somewhere.
    Just footballers? Or will you include Captains of Industry etc. in the equation?
    CEOs as well, I think £250k is a reasonable level which gets the actually very rich. My only worry is that it would be difficult to get rid of.
    Would normally be against this as doubt it would raise tax revenue at those rates. But your 2 year windfall tax might work as if people had confidence it would only be for a short period, then the costs of dodging the tax probably outweigh the costs of paying it for many.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868

    On DfID - A lot of criticism levelled at the government. But personally I'd like to know why they have done this? Have I missed the explanation somewhere? The response, typically, appears to equate it with the slaughtering of the first born. But what is going on here? On the surface it's just an administrative move - do critics believe the foreign office cannot be trusted with the aid budget?

    And what is the advantage to the government in this move. Will they tell us or is it up to the twitterati to deduce.

    Its just politics - the sort of stuff that in the old days Tory ministers liked to announce during their annual conference speech.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    I remain unpersuaded by the wisdom of windfall taxes or taxing people on the basis of hitting groups/individuals for the crime of having a lot of income rather than trying to increase the revenue.

    Punitive taxation does not sit well with me.

    I think it's time for footballers to put their money where their mouths are. It's one thing to be charitable, now they are asking for additional taxpayer spending, well that money needs to come from somewhere.
    Just footballers? Or will you include Captains of Industry etc. in the equation?
    CEOs as well, I think £250k is a reasonable level which gets the actually very rich. My only worry is that it would be difficult to get rid of.
    Can I take a downgrade to CFO to avoid your tax?
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,837

    Is there a list anywhere of which football games are available Free To Air?

    I believe the Merseyside Derby is this weekend but not sure which other games are.

    https://www.live-footballontv.com/

    Search for pick or bbc.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,851
    £134 state pension? I deal with this all the time and what I find is no two people's state pension are the same. Many women who have been housewives get a very small pension - could be £60 a week - but if the spouse dies it immediately gets uprated to about £160 per week. If you have a married couple at least one of them will be getting £7-8k per year. That's before the complication of pension credit.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176

    Is there a list anywhere of which football games are available Free To Air?

    I believe the Merseyside Derby is this weekend but not sure which other games are.

    https://talksport.com/football/712081/live-stream-all-92-premier-league-games-on-tv-free-to-air-man-united-arsenal-liverpool-chelsea/
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 5,005
    algarkirk said:

    MaxPB said:

    I remain unpersuaded by the wisdom of windfall taxes or taxing people on the basis of hitting groups/individuals for the crime of having a lot of income rather than trying to increase the revenue.

    Punitive taxation does not sit well with me.

    I think it's time for footballers to put their money where their mouths are. It's one thing to be charitable, now they are asking for additional taxpayer spending, well that money needs to come from somewhere.
    To be fair, the amount needed (if it is £140 million) equates to:

    - 2 days of the contributions we have saved thanks to leaving the EU (assuming the £350 million per week figure was correct and appropriate)

    or

    - half a day of the annual spend on the State Pension
    Indeed. If spending so little solves a hunger problem why doesn't the expenditure of eye watering billions already on the same group already solve it?
    I don't think many people on the State Pension get free school meals.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    Wrong name gate, what a fluck up.

    “Ladies and gentlemen, it is with great pleasure that I introduce to you our star guest. We all love her, especially as she is our local girl. I therefore feel it right to introduce her by her real name.

    “Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome the very lovely Miss Diana Clunt.”

    https://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/8726435.vicars-diana-dors-clanger-church-fete/
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 5,005
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    I remain unpersuaded by the wisdom of windfall taxes or taxing people on the basis of hitting groups/individuals for the crime of having a lot of income rather than trying to increase the revenue.

    Punitive taxation does not sit well with me.

    I think it's time for footballers to put their money where their mouths are. It's one thing to be charitable, now they are asking for additional taxpayer spending, well that money needs to come from somewhere.
    To be fair, the amount needed (if it is £140 million) equates to:

    - 2 days of the contributions we have saved thanks to leaving the EU (assuming the £350 million per week figure was correct and appropriate)

    or

    - half a day of the annual spend on the State Pension
    For me it's more about punishing the footballers.
    I don't like the concept of Government by spite, attractive as it may sometimes seem.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,466

    If Boris were transformed into Heidi Klum it would still be a no. The mind would remain dark, devious, malign and self-serving.
    Bit harsh on poor old Heidi - oh I see...
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,002

    On DfID - A lot of criticism levelled at the government. But personally I'd like to know why they have done this? Have I missed the explanation somewhere? The response, typically, appears to equate it with the slaughtering of the first born. But what is going on here? On the surface it's just an administrative move - do critics believe the foreign office cannot be trusted with the aid budget?

    And what is the advantage to the government in this move. Will they tell us or is it up to the twitterati to deduce.

    It's a Brexiteer shibboleth

    https://twitter.com/MahfuzSadique/status/1273043877449084929
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,482
    Gina Williamson doesn't scrub up too bad. And Pete Patel looks quite the ladies man. :lol:
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381

    If Boris were transformed into Heidi Klum it would still be a no. The mind would remain dark, devious, malign and self-serving.
    Bit harsh on poor old Heidi - oh I see...
    A fair point.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    I remain unpersuaded by the wisdom of windfall taxes or taxing people on the basis of hitting groups/individuals for the crime of having a lot of income rather than trying to increase the revenue.

    Punitive taxation does not sit well with me.

    I think it's time for footballers to put their money where their mouths are. It's one thing to be charitable, now they are asking for additional taxpayer spending, well that money needs to come from somewhere.
    To be fair, the amount needed (if it is £140 million) equates to:

    - 2 days of the contributions we have saved thanks to leaving the EU (assuming the £350 million per week figure was correct and appropriate)

    or

    - half a day of the annual spend on the State Pension
    For me it's more about punishing the footballers.
    I don't like the concept of Government by spite, attractive as it may sometimes seem.
    Indeed - the time to do something like this was early 2015 when the 2016-19 rights deal was announced. That was a huuuuuuuuuuuuge increase and probably would have justified a windfall tax ring-fenced for grassroots sports or something.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    algarkirk said:

    MaxPB said:

    I remain unpersuaded by the wisdom of windfall taxes or taxing people on the basis of hitting groups/individuals for the crime of having a lot of income rather than trying to increase the revenue.

    Punitive taxation does not sit well with me.

    I think it's time for footballers to put their money where their mouths are. It's one thing to be charitable, now they are asking for additional taxpayer spending, well that money needs to come from somewhere.
    To be fair, the amount needed (if it is £140 million) equates to:

    - 2 days of the contributions we have saved thanks to leaving the EU (assuming the £350 million per week figure was correct and appropriate)

    or

    - half a day of the annual spend on the State Pension
    Indeed. If spending so little solves a hunger problem why doesn't the expenditure of eye watering billions already on the same group already solve it?
    Indeed. My own group of friends are probably the best example of how this will play out, almost everyone in favour of it. Then a few point out that vouchers are a bad idea, another few say the government will get the money back from changing the benefits system which will result in cash being replaced by vouchers. Suddenly everyone starts to realise that they're supporting something that had the potential to make the lives of poor people a lot worse.

    Unsurprisingly the most in favour was the hard leftists who started raving on about how the government could introduce more vouchers for basic services instead of cash and that they could have a services voucher book delivered to each household.

    After about 10 mins the conclusion was that this far and no further, longer term thinking is needed on the subject which includes better guidance for parents on child nutrition and it may be better to send weekly food parcels to households than give vouchers.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,798

    On DfID - A lot of criticism levelled at the government. But personally I'd like to know why they have done this? Have I missed the explanation somewhere? The response, typically, appears to equate it with the slaughtering of the first born. But what is going on here? On the surface it's just an administrative move - do critics believe the foreign office cannot be trusted with the aid budget?

    And what is the advantage to the government in this move. Will they tell us or is it up to the twitterati to deduce.

    Johnson gave a statement going into detail in Parliament yesterday.

    Basically it is joining up and coordinating policy. Currently eg an Ambassador to a country isn't aware of or responsible for the aid to that country, but now it will all be co-ordinated together. Johnson gave an example in Parliament to a critical question that there is no point an Ambassador to a nation saying in one day that a government shouldn't execute a political opponent only to have another representative from the UK give hundreds of millions the next day in Aid.
    It was such a dumb explanation, and classic Johnson, carrying a whif of plausibility to people who know nothing about the issue at hand. If the government has human rights criteria for aid them that should be reflected in DfID policy already. The more likely scenario would be DfID refusing to provide aid on human rights grounds while the ambassador turns up the next day with a representative of BAE offering to sell the opressive regime some nice shiny weapons.
    The point of a separate aid department was to allocate our hard earned tax money on the basis of evidence and need, not on the whim of an FCO mandarin or as an inducement to buy stuff from us (aka a wasteful industrial subsidy).
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,620
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    I remain unpersuaded by the wisdom of windfall taxes or taxing people on the basis of hitting groups/individuals for the crime of having a lot of income rather than trying to increase the revenue.

    Punitive taxation does not sit well with me.

    I think it's time for footballers to put their money where their mouths are. It's one thing to be charitable, now they are asking for additional taxpayer spending, well that money needs to come from somewhere.
    Just footballers? Or will you include Captains of Industry etc. in the equation?
    CEOs as well, I think £250k is a reasonable level which gets the actually very rich. My only worry is that it would be difficult to get rid of.
    If you want a 50% top rate of income tax then you should be voting Labour as it was a policy of Brown, Ed Miliband, Corbyn and now Starmer.

    Osborne cut the top rate of income tax back to 45% after Darling raised it to 50%
    Thatcher had it at 60% for nine years.
    Thatcher inherited a top income tax rate of 83% in 1979, she left office with the top rate of income tax slashed to just 40% by 1990.

    No PM cut the top rate of income tax over their premiership more than Thatcher did
    Thatcher also left office with government debt as a lower proportion of GDP and had the country running a trade surplus through most of her premiership.

    Were those things not worth imitating as well ?
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 5,005
    Cyclefree said:

    So - any news on pubs/restaurants opening?

    No.

    This is beyond pathetic. People are trying to plan. They have nothing to plan with. Breweries don’t know whether to start brewing. The grants are running out. Landlords are demanding rent. Furlough is running out. Costs are continuing. Losses continue to be made.

    If July 4 is the date bloody tell us. If it isn’t also bloody tell us.

    Long chat with Daughter last night and she is in despair. Her last throw of the dice is a GoFundMe appeal to see if that will help. If it doesn’t then she will be closing the doors for the last time, to add to the steady drip drip announcements round here of redundancies. There are families round here where both breadwinners are facing unemployment. Even Sellafield is cutting jobs.

    Meanwhile the government’s big announcement is about DiFiD. FFS!

    The Government need to start fine-tuning support by sector.

    Online shopping is minimally hit and should get the least help, for example.

    The hospitality and entertainment sectors, together with the airline sector (much though many people may dislike individual owners or airlines) are unavoidably the most affected (I've seen estimates that this will have a similar affect to the airline industry as the Eighties had to the mining industry). And affected by a once-in-a-century natural disaster that no-one would have been sanely expected to prepare for.

    The Government should aim to shoulder a significant amount of the ongoing and avoidable costs (including staff costs and rent) for these until social distancing can be safely and certainly eased. Which could be as soon as September/October if the Oxford vaccine comes off.

    Otherwise we'll have gaping holes in our economy and society that will take a generation to recover from, together with a lot of avoidable human suffering. Yes, it's costly. Yes, it's going to have an impact on the finances. And yes, it's what the Government (pooling risk from us all that's impossible for individuals or companies to plausibly shoulder) is supposed to do - and should do.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,798
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    I remain unpersuaded by the wisdom of windfall taxes or taxing people on the basis of hitting groups/individuals for the crime of having a lot of income rather than trying to increase the revenue.

    Punitive taxation does not sit well with me.

    I think it's time for footballers to put their money where their mouths are. It's one thing to be charitable, now they are asking for additional taxpayer spending, well that money needs to come from somewhere.
    Just footballers? Or will you include Captains of Industry etc. in the equation?
    CEOs as well, I think £250k is a reasonable level which gets the actually very rich. My only worry is that it would be difficult to get rid of.
    If you want a 50% top rate of income tax then you should be voting Labour as it was a policy of Brown, Ed Miliband, Corbyn and now Starmer.

    Osborne cut the top rate of income tax back to 45% after Darling raised it to 50%
    Thatcher had it at 60% for nine years.
    Thatcher inherited a top income tax rate of 83% in 1979, she left office with the top rate of income tax slashed to just 40% by 1990.

    No PM cut the top rate of income tax over their premiership more than Thatcher did
    Thatcher wanted to leave it at 50% I believe. Lawson convinced her to cut it to 40%.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    I remain unpersuaded by the wisdom of windfall taxes or taxing people on the basis of hitting groups/individuals for the crime of having a lot of income rather than trying to increase the revenue.

    Punitive taxation does not sit well with me.

    I think it's time for footballers to put their money where their mouths are. It's one thing to be charitable, now they are asking for additional taxpayer spending, well that money needs to come from somewhere.
    To be fair, the amount needed (if it is £140 million) equates to:

    - 2 days of the contributions we have saved thanks to leaving the EU (assuming the £350 million per week figure was correct and appropriate)

    or

    - half a day of the annual spend on the State Pension
    For me it's more about punishing the footballers.
    I don't like the concept of Government by spite, attractive as it may sometimes seem.
    Me neither, however, it's a group of extremely wealthy individuals asking for additional taxpayer spending. Time to show them what the cost of additional taxpayer spending actually means in practice.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,002

    It was such a dumb explanation, and classic Johnson, carrying a whif of plausibility to people who know nothing about the issue at hand.

    And they are not folding in the trade department, so we will continue to have multiple independent voices in each country...
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,862

    A bigger problem for HMG is what they do if, as some monetary economists predict, inflation spikes quite severely in next few years. Pensions will have to match under the lock scheme.

    The M3 money numbers are pretty dramatic, especially for USA. Monetarists are blowing whistles.

    Which is why this is not going to be a one year or two year thing. The triple lock is gone for good. The reality is that UK plc has lost about a quarter of a years income and is going to be worse off for some considerable time to come. It is inconceivable that pensioners can be sheltered from that pain. In fairness most pensioners won't even expect to be.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,902

    Gina Williamson doesn't scrub up too bad. And Pete Patel looks quite the ladies man. :lol:
    Dominique Raab and Pete Patel are both SMOKING hot *swoon*
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,798

    If I was the government I would announce a one year increase in the top rate of tax to 50%.

    It would be unofficially dubbed the Rashford tax.

    A one year tax hike would raise very little because a whole industry exists to help people shift tax liabilities from one tax year to another. In my view it was a mistake to cut the top tax rate to 45%. Those with the broadest shoulders can easily afford to contribute more, the top rate should go back to 50% and stay there.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677

    Oh, and having a Union Jack painted on your aircraft. Does that make sense, even if you actually agree with all these actions?

    You just know the 'Brexit Belle' is going to be absolute cringe when it rolls out of the Marshall hangar.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,002
    Prime ministers announce changes to government structures for one of two reasons. Either they are frustrated in pursuit of some cherished policy, or they are panicking that events are running away from them. Moving Whitehall furniture creates a comforting illusion of control.

    Since Boris Johnson doesn’t cherish much beyond the idea of himself as a figure of greatness, the safe bet is that his plan to merge the Foreign Office with the Department for International Development belongs in the category of gestural distraction.

    The rationale is that a hybrid ministry will more efficiently represent the interests of “global Britain”. Even if that were a feasible outcome, now is hardly the time. It calls to mind the late Denis Healey’s maxim that the moment to remove a man’s appendix is not when he is busy carrying a piano up a flight of stairs.


    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jun/17/incompetence-boris-johnson-government-cabinet-britain
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935

    If I was the government I would announce a one year increase in the top rate of tax to 50%.

    It would be unofficially dubbed the Rashford tax.

    A one year tax hike would raise very little because a whole industry exists to help people shift tax liabilities from one tax year to another. In my view it was a mistake to cut the top tax rate to 45%. Those with the broadest shoulders can easily afford to contribute more, the top rate should go back to 50% and stay there.
    Make it retroactive on earnings last year. ;)
This discussion has been closed.