BBC News interviewing a molecular epidemiologist from the University of Basel who literally just said: "racism and the consequences of racism have killed many many more people than the coronavirus."
Well that's alright then, let's stop worrying about COVID-19.
That might be turned on its head in the light of this weekend's protests.
A total of 27 police officers were hurt during anti-racism protests in London, the Met Police has revealed.
Protests on Saturday - sparked by the death of George Floyd - were largely peaceful, but were marred later by disturbances outside Downing Street.
One demonstrator, who was not at Downing Street, saw officers "acting very aggressively" elsewhere.
Largely peaceful say the BBC, just 27 officers hurt....and the BBC back it up with somebody who wasn't there says they thought the police were horrid, but obviously no evidence.
Amazing all the labourites cheering on criminal behaviour. Remember their outrage at Big Dom behaviour and.claims he would encourage the dangerous behaviour by the public.
Now we literally have labourites advocating forget covid (that think that disproportionately kills BAME individuals) and get into mobs to go smash shit up.
Lots of stuff used to be illegal that shouldn't have been. Some stuff is still illegal that shouldn't be. Sometimes doing what's right matters more than obeying the law. Plenty of stuff would never have changed if nobody had been willing to break the law. A statue of a man who became wealthy on the bloody murder of the slave trade should have been taken down years ago. If this was the only way to get it done, I am happy to applaud it.
So give me an apology for your role in the Irish Potato Famine.
Now.
Are you drinking already? That doesn't even make sense.
Irish Lives Matter
though not to you it seems
These Brits do love a good famine to keep the oppressed happy.
The Bengal Famine wasn't just an isolated incident.
Amazing all the labourites cheering on criminal behaviour. Remember their outrage at Big Dom behaviour and.claims he would encourage the dangerous behaviour by the public.
Now we literally have labourites advocating forget covid (that think that disproportionately kills BAME individuals) and get into mobs to go smash shit up.
Lots of stuff used to be illegal that shouldn't have been. Some stuff is still illegal that shouldn't be. Sometimes doing what's right matters more than obeying the law. Plenty of stuff would never have changed if nobody had been willing to break the law. A statue of a man who became wealthy on the bloody murder of the slave trade should have been taken down years ago. If this was the only way to get it done, I am happy to applaud it.
Bristol have an elected mayor. They have a democraticly elected council. Lobby them to have it removed...oh wait they did, and the people of Bristol, including descendants of the slave trade, said no leave it.
So instead a load of white folk decided to rip it down.
Why so fixated on the race of the people involved? (The photo I saw of the slave trading baby murdering bastard being thrown in the river showed a mixed and predominantly black crowd anyway).
I literally would not exist without the Empire, and although NZ is perhaps at one end of the spectrum when it comes to post-imperial states (and not without its own flaws), I tend to think the world is a better place with NZ in it.
Are you implying that the world would be a worse place if New Zealand were Polynesian?
NZ has the highest Polynesian population in the world.
I seem to be the only person on here, broadly proud of the “Empire” (without which my home country would not exist), broadly sympathetic to BLM, a bit disconcerted to see a Grade II statue topple, but with an intemperate loathing of Trump and Johnson.
I am “centrist Dad”.
New Zealand was in theory settled by agreement*, and Maori rights protected in law from the beginning, so a bit different to other colonies.
* yes, I know the treaty has been disputed from the beginning, and that there were three Maori wars as well as continuing land disputes etc.
I think the modern tendency in this country to say the Empire was unredeemingly awful is regrettable.
It was what it was, and once it became both militarily and morally unsustainable, it was wound up pretty quickly.
I literally would not exist without the Empire, and although NZ is perhaps at one end of the spectrum when it comes to post-imperial states (and not without its own flaws), I tend to think the world is a better place with NZ in it.
There are still Empires. China and the USA are both Empires. If we accept that, we can see that not all Empires are equal, and that perhaps Empires are an unavoidable element of human history.
They are not Empires, superpowers maybe but not Empires, they do not have colonies
Amazing all the labourites cheering on criminal behaviour. Remember their outrage at Big Dom behaviour and.claims he would encourage the dangerous behaviour by the public.
Now we literally have labourites advocating forget covid (that think that disproportionately kills BAME individuals) and get into mobs to go smash shit up.
Lots of stuff used to be illegal that shouldn't have been. Some stuff is still illegal that shouldn't be. Sometimes doing what's right matters more than obeying the law. Plenty of stuff would never have changed if nobody had been willing to break the law. A statue of a man who became wealthy on the bloody murder of the slave trade should have been taken down years ago. If this was the only way to get it done, I am happy to applaud it.
Bristol have an elected mayor. They have a democraticly elected council. Lobby them to have it removed...oh wait they did, and the people of Bristol, including descendants of the slave trade, said no leave it.
So instead a load of white folk decided to rip it down.
Why so fixated on the race of the people involved? (The photo I saw of the slave trading baby murdering bastard being thrown in the river showed a mixed and predominantly black crowd anyway).
No it didn’t. Look at their hands, not at their masks.
Amazing all the labourites cheering on criminal behaviour. Remember their outrage at Big Dom behaviour and.claims he would encourage the dangerous behaviour by the public.
Now we literally have labourites advocating forget covid (that think that disproportionately kills BAME individuals) and get into mobs to go smash shit up.
Lots of stuff used to be illegal that shouldn't have been. Some stuff is still illegal that shouldn't be. Sometimes doing what's right matters more than obeying the law. Plenty of stuff would never have changed if nobody had been willing to break the law. A statue of a man who became wealthy on the bloody murder of the slave trade should have been taken down years ago. If this was the only way to get it done, I am happy to applaud it.
So give me an apology for your role in the Irish Potato Famine.
Now.
Are you drinking already? That doesn't even make sense.
Irish Lives Matter
though not to you it seems
These Brits do love a good famine to keep the oppressed happy.
The Bengal Famine wasn't just an isolated incident.
I literally would not exist without the Empire, and although NZ is perhaps at one end of the spectrum when it comes to post-imperial states (and not without its own flaws), I tend to think the world is a better place with NZ in it.
Are you implying that the world would be a worse place if New Zealand were Polynesian?
NZ has the highest Polynesian population in the world.
And the USA has the highest Cherokee population in the world...
Amazing all the labourites cheering on criminal behaviour. Remember their outrage at Big Dom behaviour and.claims he would encourage the dangerous behaviour by the public.
Now we literally have labourites advocating forget covid (that think that disproportionately kills BAME individuals) and get into mobs to go smash shit up.
Lots of stuff used to be illegal that shouldn't have been. Some stuff is still illegal that shouldn't be. Sometimes doing what's right matters more than obeying the law. Plenty of stuff would never have changed if nobody had been willing to break the law. A statue of a man who became wealthy on the bloody murder of the slave trade should have been taken down years ago. If this was the only way to get it done, I am happy to applaud it.
So give me an apology for your role in the Irish Potato Famine.
Now.
Are you drinking already? That doesn't even make sense.
Irish Lives Matter
though not to you it seems
These Brits do love a good famine to keep the oppressed happy.
The Bengal Famine wasn't just an isolated incident.
Youre not even from Bengal
So you should apolgise too.
Sunil keeps going on about that too, but I think he’s from Kerala.
But why stop there? Shouldn’t the Nepalese apologise for their role in the Amritsar Massacre?
Amazing all the labourites cheering on criminal behaviour. Remember their outrage at Big Dom behaviour and.claims he would encourage the dangerous behaviour by the public.
Now we literally have labourites advocating forget covid (that think that disproportionately kills BAME individuals) and get into mobs to go smash shit up.
Lots of stuff used to be illegal that shouldn't have been. Some stuff is still illegal that shouldn't be. Sometimes doing what's right matters more than obeying the law. Plenty of stuff would never have changed if nobody had been willing to break the law. A statue of a man who became wealthy on the bloody murder of the slave trade should have been taken down years ago. If this was the only way to get it done, I am happy to applaud it.
So give me an apology for your role in the Irish Potato Famine.
Now.
Are you drinking already? That doesn't even make sense.
Irish Lives Matter
though not to you it seems
These Brits do love a good famine to keep the oppressed happy.
The Bengal Famine wasn't just an isolated incident.
Youre not even from Bengal
So you should apolgise too.
I'm sure one of my ancestors was from there.
But I apologise for the Irish famine, and we should give Northern Ireland back to the Republic as compensation.
1. The equestrian statue of Charles I, licenser and supporter of slave traders, that looks along Whitehall.
2. The statue of Charles II, charterer of the Royal African Company founded in 1660 shortly after the restoration, in Soho Square.
3. The statue of James II, the leading figure in the said Company who as Duke of York had his slaves branded "DY" and gave his name to the city and state of New York, in front of the National Gallery.
There's nothing stopping Boris Johnson from addressing the country tonight and saying we get the point, we're with you, there was no justification for slavery then and there's none for honouring slavers now, we'll take them down.
I literally would not exist without the Empire, and although NZ is perhaps at one end of the spectrum when it comes to post-imperial states (and not without its own flaws), I tend to think the world is a better place with NZ in it.
Are you implying that the world would be a worse place if New Zealand were Polynesian?
NZ has the highest Polynesian population in the world.
Amazing all the labourites cheering on criminal behaviour. Remember their outrage at Big Dom behaviour and.claims he would encourage the dangerous behaviour by the public.
Now we literally have labourites advocating forget covid (that think that disproportionately kills BAME individuals) and get into mobs to go smash shit up.
Lots of stuff used to be illegal that shouldn't have been. Some stuff is still illegal that shouldn't be. Sometimes doing what's right matters more than obeying the law. Plenty of stuff would never have changed if nobody had been willing to break the law. A statue of a man who became wealthy on the bloody murder of the slave trade should have been taken down years ago. If this was the only way to get it done, I am happy to applaud it.
So give me an apology for your role in the Irish Potato Famine.
Now.
Are you drinking already? That doesn't even make sense.
Irish Lives Matter
though not to you it seems
These Brits do love a good famine to keep the oppressed happy.
The Bengal Famine wasn't just an isolated incident.
Youre not even from Bengal
So you should apolgise too.
I'm sure one of my ancestors was from there.
But I apologise for the Irish famine, and we should give Northern Ireland back to the Republic as compensation.
Amazing all the labourites cheering on criminal behaviour. Remember their outrage at Big Dom behaviour and.claims he would encourage the dangerous behaviour by the public.
Now we literally have labourites advocating forget covid (that think that disproportionately kills BAME individuals) and get into mobs to go smash shit up.
Lots of stuff used to be illegal that shouldn't have been. Some stuff is still illegal that shouldn't be. Sometimes doing what's right matters more than obeying the law. Plenty of stuff would never have changed if nobody had been willing to break the law. A statue of a man who became wealthy on the bloody murder of the slave trade should have been taken down years ago. If this was the only way to get it done, I am happy to applaud it.
So give me an apology for your role in the Irish Potato Famine.
Now.
Are you drinking already? That doesn't even make sense.
Irish Lives Matter
though not to you it seems
These Brits do love a good famine to keep the oppressed happy.
The Bengal Famine wasn't just an isolated incident.
Youre not even from Bengal
So you should apolgise too.
The Bengal famine was caused by the Japanese, not by the British.
Boris needs to get a grip. He's looking like a helpless, passive observer as events explode around him. Covid, street anarchy, crashing out of the Single Market - these are not the features of a government in control. It's madness.
I cannot see this polling helping Trump. Not seen an equivalent here.
Amazing all the labourites cheering on criminal behaviour. Remember their outrage at Big Dom behaviour and.claims he would encourage the dangerous behaviour by the public.
Now we literally have labourites advocating forget covid (that think that disproportionately kills BAME individuals) and get into mobs to go smash shit up.
Lots of stuff used to be illegal that shouldn't have been. Some stuff is still illegal that shouldn't be. Sometimes doing what's right matters more than obeying the law. Plenty of stuff would never have changed if nobody had been willing to break the law. A statue of a man who became wealthy on the bloody murder of the slave trade should have been taken down years ago. If this was the only way to get it done, I am happy to applaud it.
So give me an apology for your role in the Irish Potato Famine.
Now.
Are you drinking already? That doesn't even make sense.
Irish Lives Matter
though not to you it seems
These Brits do love a good famine to keep the oppressed happy.
The Bengal Famine wasn't just an isolated incident.
Youre not even from Bengal
So you should apolgise too.
I'm sure one of my ancestors was from there.
But I apologise for the Irish famine, and we should give Northern Ireland back to the Republic as compensation.
The areas most affected by the Irish famine were in western and southern Ireland which are already in the Republic of Ireland.
The Republic of Ireland is also richer than Northern Ireland now so would have to subsidise the latter, not the reverse
Amazing all the labourites cheering on criminal behaviour. Remember their outrage at Big Dom behaviour and.claims he would encourage the dangerous behaviour by the public.
Now we literally have labourites advocating forget covid (that think that disproportionately kills BAME individuals) and get into mobs to go smash shit up.
Lots of stuff used to be illegal that shouldn't have been. Some stuff is still illegal that shouldn't be. Sometimes doing what's right matters more than obeying the law. Plenty of stuff would never have changed if nobody had been willing to break the law. A statue of a man who became wealthy on the bloody murder of the slave trade should have been taken down years ago. If this was the only way to get it done, I am happy to applaud it.
So give me an apology for your role in the Irish Potato Famine.
Now.
Are you drinking already? That doesn't even make sense.
Irish Lives Matter
though not to you it seems
I would happily endorse the removal of any statues of British people who played any role in the Irish famine. It was a monstrous crime and another example of our problematic history. The Atlantic slave economy and the plantations at their core built on the British colonial experiment in Ireland, as you know, so the two issues are of course related. Since I am part Irish I'm certainly not going to deny that Irish lives matter, I'd like to see them mattering a whole lot more, in a united Ireland by consent. I'm just a bit confused as to why you are bringing it up since we weren't talking about it.
Boris needs to get a grip. He's looking like a helpless, passive observer as events explode around him. Covid, street anarchy, crashing out of the Single Market - these are not the features of a government in control. It's madness.
I cannot see this polling helping Trump. Not seen an equivalent here.
Amazing all the labourites cheering on criminal behaviour. Remember their outrage at Big Dom behaviour and.claims he would encourage the dangerous behaviour by the public.
Now we literally have labourites advocating forget covid (that think that disproportionately kills BAME individuals) and get into mobs to go smash shit up.
Lots of stuff used to be illegal that shouldn't have been. Some stuff is still illegal that shouldn't be. Sometimes doing what's right matters more than obeying the law. Plenty of stuff would never have changed if nobody had been willing to break the law. A statue of a man who became wealthy on the bloody murder of the slave trade should have been taken down years ago. If this was the only way to get it done, I am happy to applaud it.
So give me an apology for your role in the Irish Potato Famine.
Now.
Are you drinking already? That doesn't even make sense.
Irish Lives Matter
though not to you it seems
I would happily endorse the removal of any statues of British people who played any role in the Irish famine. It was a monstrous crime and another example of our problematic history. The Atlantic slave economy and the plantations at their core built on the British colonial experiment in Ireland, as you know, so the two issues are of course related. Since I am part Irish I'm certainly not going to deny that Irish lives matter, I'd like to see them mattering a whole lot more, in a united Ireland by consent. I'm just a bit confused as to why you are bringing it up since we weren't talking about it.
So just to be clear - you want to tear down every statue of Gladstone?
I seem to be the only person on here, broadly proud of the “Empire” (without which my home country would not exist), broadly sympathetic to BLM, a bit disconcerted to see a Grade II statue topple, but with an intemperate loathing of Trump and Johnson.
I am “centrist Dad”.
New Zealand was in theory settled by agreement*, and Maori rights protected in law from the beginning, so a bit different to other colonies.
* yes, I know the treaty has been disputed from the beginning, and that there were three Maori wars as well as continuing land disputes etc.
I think the modern tendency in this country to say the Empire was unredeemingly awful is regrettable.
It was what it was, and once it became both militarily and morally unsustainable, it was wound up pretty quickly.
I literally would not exist without the Empire, and although NZ is perhaps at one end of the spectrum when it comes to post-imperial states (and not without its own flaws), I tend to think the world is a better place with NZ in it.
There are still Empires. China and the USA are both Empires. If we accept that, we can see that not all Empires are equal, and that perhaps Empires are an unavoidable element of human history.
They are not Empires, superpowers maybe but not Empires, they do not have colonies
John Darwin, one of the best historians of the British Empire, talks about the three separate but overlapping components: Global maritime power and trade; India and other extractive colonies; and the Dominions.
In the broader view, an Empire doesn’t need formal colonies.
I literally would not exist without the Empire, and although NZ is perhaps at one end of the spectrum when it comes to post-imperial states (and not without its own flaws), I tend to think the world is a better place with NZ in it.
Are you implying that the world would be a worse place if New Zealand were Polynesian?
NZ has the highest Polynesian population in the world.
And the USA has the highest Cherokee population in the world...
But I’m not arguing about the USA.
I’m talking about NZ, a parliamentary and multi-ethnic democracy.
Amazing all the labourites cheering on criminal behaviour. Remember their outrage at Big Dom behaviour and.claims he would encourage the dangerous behaviour by the public.
Now we literally have labourites advocating forget covid (that think that disproportionately kills BAME individuals) and get into mobs to go smash shit up.
Lots of stuff used to be illegal that shouldn't have been. Some stuff is still illegal that shouldn't be. Sometimes doing what's right matters more than obeying the law. Plenty of stuff would never have changed if nobody had been willing to break the law. A statue of a man who became wealthy on the bloody murder of the slave trade should have been taken down years ago. If this was the only way to get it done, I am happy to applaud it.
Bristol have an elected mayor. They have a democraticly elected council. Lobby them to have it removed...oh wait they did, and the people of Bristol, including descendants of the slave trade, said no leave it.
So instead a load of white folk decided to rip it down.
Why so fixated on the race of the people involved? (The photo I saw of the slave trading baby murdering bastard being thrown in the river showed a mixed and predominantly black crowd anyway).
Lets be honest the crowd was almost entirely white. It was in no way diverse and reflective of the ages and background of Bristol.
Amazing all the labourites cheering on criminal behaviour. Remember their outrage at Big Dom behaviour and.claims he would encourage the dangerous behaviour by the public.
Now we literally have labourites advocating forget covid (that think that disproportionately kills BAME individuals) and get into mobs to go smash shit up.
Lots of stuff used to be illegal that shouldn't have been. Some stuff is still illegal that shouldn't be. Sometimes doing what's right matters more than obeying the law. Plenty of stuff would never have changed if nobody had been willing to break the law. A statue of a man who became wealthy on the bloody murder of the slave trade should have been taken down years ago. If this was the only way to get it done, I am happy to applaud it.
So give me an apology for your role in the Irish Potato Famine.
Now.
Are you drinking already? That doesn't even make sense.
Irish Lives Matter
though not to you it seems
I would happily endorse the removal of any statues of British people who played any role in the Irish famine. It was a monstrous crime and another example of our problematic history. The Atlantic slave economy and the plantations at their core built on the British colonial experiment in Ireland, as you know, so the two issues are of course related. Since I am part Irish I'm certainly not going to deny that Irish lives matter, I'd like to see them mattering a whole lot more, in a united Ireland by consent. I'm just a bit confused as to why you are bringing it up since we weren't talking about it.
]Because you asking people to apolgise for evernts outside there experience is as logical as me holding you responsible for potato blight.
Boris needs to get a grip. He's looking like a helpless, passive observer as events explode around him. Covid, street anarchy, crashing out of the Single Market - these are not the features of a government in control. It's madness.
I cannot see this polling helping Trump. Not seen an equivalent here.
Amazing all the labourites cheering on criminal behaviour. Remember their outrage at Big Dom behaviour and.claims he would encourage the dangerous behaviour by the public.
Now we literally have labourites advocating forget covid (that think that disproportionately kills BAME individuals) and get into mobs to go smash shit up.
Lots of stuff used to be illegal that shouldn't have been. Some stuff is still illegal that shouldn't be. Sometimes doing what's right matters more than obeying the law. Plenty of stuff would never have changed if nobody had been willing to break the law. A statue of a man who became wealthy on the bloody murder of the slave trade should have been taken down years ago. If this was the only way to get it done, I am happy to applaud it.
Bristol have an elected mayor. They have a democraticly elected council. Lobby them to have it removed...oh wait they did, and the people of Bristol, including descendants of the slave trade, said no leave it.
So instead a load of white folk decided to rip it down.
Why so fixated on the race of the people involved? (The photo I saw of the slave trading baby murdering bastard being thrown in the river showed a mixed and predominantly black crowd anyway).
Lets be honest the crowd was almost entirely white. It was in no way diverse and reflective of the ages and background of Bristol.
Why on earth does this matter?
Is it only ok if black people resent physical legacies of the slave trade?
From 142,123 tests, so it doesn't look like the latest step in the steady decline is down to an unusually low number of tests. We're also a week on from the latest set of baby steps in the unshuttering of society, with no obvious signs from the testing data as yet of a spike in cases. This is encouraging.
Looking at past Sundays...
Covid: Daily deaths announced on Sundays by the NHS in England
The peak in early April is, of course, obvious - but it also looks like evidence for the "fat tail" on the death graph (suggested by @Foxy IIRC.) Even if new cases don't start to trend upwards again it may be quite a long time before the fatalities really begin to peter out.
I literally would not exist without the Empire, and although NZ is perhaps at one end of the spectrum when it comes to post-imperial states (and not without its own flaws), I tend to think the world is a better place with NZ in it.
Are you implying that the world would be a worse place if New Zealand were Polynesian?
NZ has the highest Polynesian population in the world.
Big drug problem, huh?
Bob Marley was/is a hero to many NZers. Emancipate yourself from mental slavery!
Now I seemed to remember a poster on here saying woke-ism was dead because of covid and we wouldn't be like the US. Now we have mobs pulling down statues they don't like.
That one certainly deserved to be ripped down.
There are quite a few statues of old white imperialists around our cities which should go the same way.
If people want to get rid of something, it should be done via democratic means. Having mobs ripping stuff down is not the way.
Bet you didn't say that about the Berlin Wall and statues of Ceaușescu
#hypocrisy
Oh really! There is a big difference between Britain and the DDR and Ceaușescu‘s Romania.
Good. Should have been taken down years ago, it's a shame it took concerned citizens to act for it to go.
Yes, illegal vandalism of historic monuments by a mob is so wonderful, isn't it?
In this specific case, it most certainly is! Put it in a museum. Black people should not be forced to view a monument to a man who saw them as chattel.
Should Irish Catholics be forced to view a monument to Cromwell, a man who viewed them as people to be killed, deprived of their land and generally treated like lesser beings?
I am in favour of putting up explanatory signs giving a fuller and more accurate account of the people remembered in statues, precisely because we should not seek to obliterate the past but understand it better. Mob rule and criminal damage do neither.
Regarding Alastair's thread, I think it is more class than racism.
The middle and upper classes do well, and a lot of BAME aren't in those classes.
My grandfather turned up in this country from a country far away and he was instantly a member of the middle class.
Had he have been a manual worker working in the mills I'm not sure I'd have had the same life opportunities that I've enjoyed.
It's also a matter of education and attitudes to education.
The extreme example of this can be seen in the US. For example, very poor Chinese immigrants in New York have done very well in getting into the selective schools run by the state.
So well, in fact that the Mayor of New York has discussed a quota system to "rebalance the intake" -
Just days ago he was a celebrated anti-fascist. How quickly times change.
That statue of Churchill always gets defaced. I remember him getting a grass mohawk when some green group did their protests a few years back. That was a bit more imaginative than this of course.
Wasn’t that the anti-capitalism protests in London in the late 90s?
2000,
iirc the anticapitalist protests had a well-earned breather in the early to mid noughties.
This claim originated with the - to put it mildly - unreliable organisation USCPR, who make Paul Eisen look like a reasonable and honest human being. They specialise in promoting anti-Israeli propaganda to support the BDS movement. I’m not sure that we can take it as read that this has in fact happened, as your correspondent seems to.
Put it this way, why would a police force go to a foreign embassy for training?
Regarding Alastair's thread, I think it is more class than racism.
The middle and upper classes do well, and a lot of BAME aren't in those classes.
My grandfather turned up in this country from a country far away and he was instantly a member of the middle class.
Had he have been a manual worker working in the mills I'm not sure I'd have had the same life opportunities that I've enjoyed.
It's also a matter of education and attitudes to education.
The extreme example of this can be seen in the US. For example, very poor Chinese immigrants in New York have done very well in getting into the selective schools run by the state.
Too well. So well, in fact that the Mayor of New York has discussed a quota system to stop this -
This claim originated with the - to put it mildly - unreliable organisation USCPR, who make Paul Eisen look like a reasonable and honest human being. They specialise in promoting anti-Israeli propaganda to support the BDS movement. I’m not sure that we can take it as read that this has in fact happened, as your correspondent seems to.
Put it this way, why would a police force go to a foreign embassy for training?
Amazing all the labourites cheering on criminal behaviour. Remember their outrage at Big Dom behaviour and.claims he would encourage the dangerous behaviour by the public.
Now we literally have labourites advocating forget covid (that think that disproportionately kills BAME individuals) and get into mobs to go smash shit up.
Wait until the criminal behaviour ends up on their doorstep. Then they'll be howling into the seven heavens about the injustice. Proper "what have I done" Alec Guinness stuff.
Just days ago he was a celebrated anti-fascist. How quickly times change.
That statue of Churchill always gets defaced. I remember him getting a grass mohawk when some green group did their protests a few years back. That was a bit more imaginative than this of course.
Wasn’t that the anti-capitalism protests in London in the late 90s?
2000,
iirc the anticapitalist protests had a well-earned breather in the early to mid noughties.
Kind of took a back seat to 9/11 and it’s after-effects.
This claim originated with the - to put it mildly - unreliable organisation USCPR, who make Paul Eisen look like a reasonable and honest human being. They specialise in promoting anti-Israeli propaganda to support the BDS movement. I’m not sure that we can take it as read that this has in fact happened, as your correspondent seems to.
Put it this way, why would a police force go to a foreign embassy for training?
IIRC correctly, when De Mendes was shot in London, the Met Police claimed at one point they were following Israeli techniques with suicide bombers.
The Israelis pointed out that was bollocks - among other things, they have caught quite a number of suicide bombers alive.
The breakdown of that poll shows why it's likely too early to pay much attention to them.
No way Biden will be at only a +73% margin with black voters on election day.
In the UK, as soon as protests turn violent, historically the public don't like it. Big peaceful anti-war or brexit protests, no issues. The anti-capitalist ones the public didn't like nor as soon as the student ones turned violent.
We aren't France, where it is expected you set fire to stuff and have a dust up with the police, otherwise it wasn't a proper protest.
The breakdown of that poll shows why it's likely too early to pay much attention to them.
No way Biden will be at only a +73% margin with black voters on election day.
In the UK, as soon as protests turn violent, historically the public don't like it. Big peaceful anti-war or brexit protests, no issues. The anti-capitalist ones the public didn't like nor as soon as the student ones turned violent.
We aren't France, where it is expected you set fire to stuff and have a dust up with the police, otherwise it wasn't a proper protest.
The chaos outside the Dems conference in 1968 was probably the last straw that tipped the election to Nixon.
When you consider how many truly formidable handicaps Humphrey was labouring under, the fact he lost by such a narrow margin says a lot about how strong a candidate he might have been in other circumstances.
Regarding Alastair's thread, I think it is more class than racism.
The middle and upper classes do well, and a lot of BAME aren't in those classes.
My grandfather turned up in this country from a country far away and he was instantly a member of the middle class.
Had he have been a manual worker working in the mills I'm not sure I'd have had the same life opportunities that I've enjoyed.
It's also a matter of education and attitudes to education.
The extreme example of this can be seen in the US. For example, very poor Chinese immigrants in New York have done very well in getting into the selective schools run by the state.
Too well. So well, in fact that the Mayor of New York has discussed a quota system to stop this -
Yup, I was raised by parents and grandparents who saw a good education as a gateway to a great life.
A school friend ended up as a step child in a Chinese family. He described it as being part of an engine designed to produce progress - for the family as a unit.
He was expected to work for virtually nothing in the family business.
In return all food, fees, loans, books & travel was provided by the family. When he went to university, he was given enough to ensure he didn't have to work. All contingent on getting good grades.
What he did have to do, was look after the house that was bought by the family as an investment - and fill it with his student friends as paying lodgers.
Regarding Alastair's thread, I think it is more class than racism.
The middle and upper classes do well, and a lot of BAME aren't in those classes.
My grandfather turned up in this country from a country far away and he was instantly a member of the middle class.
Had he have been a manual worker working in the mills I'm not sure I'd have had the same life opportunities that I've enjoyed.
It's also a matter of education and attitudes to education.
The extreme example of this can be seen in the US. For example, very poor Chinese immigrants in New York have done very well in getting into the selective schools run by the state.
So well, in fact that the Mayor of New York has discussed a quota system to "rebalance the intake" -
In the UK at least I'm not sure that's true. It's a while since I've seen research in this area, but as far as I was aware education was taken more seriously in working class black families when compared with working class white families.
The differences tended to be from attitudes outside the family - in particular from schools.
I recall an anguished appeal by a lawyer, many years ago. A judge in Oxford Crown Court had been very sarcastic, when sentencing his client. Feelings were hurt apparently.
The chap in question had tried to steal a car. An occupied car, it turned out, to his surprise. Occupied by two police officers. In uniform.
Thanks @Cyclefree for such a good piece. It looks to me as if the government is not all singing from the same hymn sheet.
Chlorinated chicken is emblematic of wider issues. Bucaneering free market and tough luck to the farmers/manufacturers etc or taking control of our own food regulations and onshore goods in a buy British campaign?
I suspect the financiers of Brexit fancy the former, but it will be like a turd in the swimming pool for the majority of patriotic Brexit voters, particularly in the Red/Blue Wall.
It is not going to be possible to ride both horses for much longer. A choice is going to have to be made.
From 142,123 tests, so it doesn't look like the latest step in the steady decline is down to an unusually low number of tests. We're also a week on from the latest set of baby steps in the unshuttering of society, with no obvious signs from the testing data as yet of a spike in cases. This is encouraging.
Looking at past Sundays...
Covid: Daily deaths announced on Sundays by the NHS in England
The peak in early April is, of course, obvious - but it also looks like evidence for the "fat tail" on the death graph (suggested by @Foxy IIRC.) Even if new cases don't start to trend upwards again it may be quite a long time before the fatalities really begin to peter out.
In the best traditions of television, here is one I did earlier....
I recall an anguished appeal by a lawyer, many years ago. A judge in Oxford Crown Court had been very sarcastic, when sentencing his client. Feelings were hurt apparently.
The chap in question had tried to steal a car. An occupied car, it turned out, to his surprise. Occupied by two police officers. In uniform.
If I had been the judge, I would have contented myself with suggesting that somebody that dumb was maybe not suited to a life of crime.
Nothing gets my goat more than the ludicrous historical revisionism that states that everyone was absolutely totally fine with slavery whilst slavery was happening.
In reality there was massive pressure against it. Be it the British Empire or the fledgling United States.
When you look at contemporary letters even a great number of the fucking slave owners knew what they were doing was morally reprehensible.
I recall an anguished appeal by a lawyer, many years ago. A judge in Oxford Crown Court had been very sarcastic, when sentencing his client. Feelings were hurt apparently.
The chap in question had tried to steal a car. An occupied car, it turned out, to his surprise. Occupied by two police officers. In uniform.
If I had been the judge, I would have contented myself with suggesting that somebody that dumb was maybe not suited to a life of crime.
IIRC the judge was pretty savage about his stupidity. His lawyers whining achieved a Streisand effect and nothing more...
I recall an anguished appeal by a lawyer, many years ago. A judge in Oxford Crown Court had been very sarcastic, when sentencing his client. Feelings were hurt apparently.
The chap in question had tried to steal a car. An occupied car, it turned out, to his surprise. Occupied by two police officers. In uniform.
I remember reading in the Ham and High around 35 years ago about the exploits of a bank robber who stroked the same building society in Kilburn three times. After two successful attempts, on the third occasion he was arrested at the bus stop adjacent to the building society. When questioned by police, he confirmed his modus operandi never changed because the building society was conveniently close to a stop for the bus home.
On topic, Covid-19 is widening the class divide. The middle classes are eating better, more local food. Those who struggle to make ends meet are seeing their choices deteriorate. The government doesn’t seem to be doing any thinking about this at all.
Regarding Alastair's thread, I think it is more class than racism.
The middle and upper classes do well, and a lot of BAME aren't in those classes.
My grandfather turned up in this country from a country far away and he was instantly a member of the middle class.
Had he have been a manual worker working in the mills I'm not sure I'd have had the same life opportunities that I've enjoyed.
It's also a matter of education and attitudes to education.
The extreme example of this can be seen in the US. For example, very poor Chinese immigrants in New York have done very well in getting into the selective schools run by the state.
So well, in fact that the Mayor of New York has discussed a quota system to "rebalance the intake" -
In the UK at least I'm not sure that's true. It's a while since I've seen research in this area, but as far as I was aware education was taken more seriously in working class black families when compared with working class white families.
The differences tended to be from attitudes outside the family - in particular from schools.
IIRC correctly it became clearer with further segmentation of groups.
"Black": is not a homogeneous culture - Ghanian culture is very different to Afro-Caribbean for example.
As the numbers come down we are going to see lots of volatility both upwards and downwards in cities and regions. The media will think its a big deal but really as the numbers come down the focus needs to be more on the national picture which has the bigger and therefore more reliable samples.
I imagine something along these lines needs to be posted on a daily basis for the next month, just like the clarifications about the difference between deaths on a day vs deaths reported on a day is strangely needed regularly.
Amazing all the labourites cheering on criminal behaviour. Remember their outrage at Big Dom behaviour and.claims he would encourage the dangerous behaviour by the public.
Now we literally have labourites advocating forget covid (that think that disproportionately kills BAME individuals) and get into mobs to go smash shit up.
Lots of stuff used to be illegal that shouldn't have been. Some stuff is still illegal that shouldn't be. Sometimes doing what's right matters more than obeying the law. Plenty of stuff would never have changed if nobody had been willing to break the law. A statue of a man who became wealthy on the bloody murder of the slave trade should have been taken down years ago. If this was the only way to get it done, I am happy to applaud it.
So give me an apology for your role in the Irish Potato Famine.
Now.
Are you drinking already? That doesn't even make sense.
Amazing all the labourites cheering on criminal behaviour. Remember their outrage at Big Dom behaviour and.claims he would encourage the dangerous behaviour by the public.
Now we literally have labourites advocating forget covid (that think that disproportionately kills BAME individuals) and get into mobs to go smash shit up.
Lots of stuff used to be illegal that shouldn't have been. Some stuff is still illegal that shouldn't be. Sometimes doing what's right matters more than obeying the law. Plenty of stuff would never have changed if nobody had been willing to break the law. A statue of a man who became wealthy on the bloody murder of the slave trade should have been taken down years ago. If this was the only way to get it done, I am happy to applaud it.
So give me an apology for your role in the Irish Potato Famine.
Now.
Are you drinking already? That doesn't even make sense.
Irish Lives Matter
though not to you it seems
I would happily endorse the removal of any statues of British people who played any role in the Irish famine. It was a monstrous crime and another example of our problematic history. The Atlantic slave economy and the plantations at their core built on the British colonial experiment in Ireland, as you know, so the two issues are of course related. Since I am part Irish I'm certainly not going to deny that Irish lives matter, I'd like to see them mattering a whole lot more, in a united Ireland by consent. I'm just a bit confused as to why you are bringing it up since we weren't talking about it.
]Because you asking people to apolgise for evernts outside there experience is as logical as me holding you responsible for potato blight.
When did I ask anybody to apologise? I am just glad that a man who profited from the greatest crime in the history of humanity is no longer being honoured with a statue in one of our cities. I am genuinely surprised that is a controversial view, TBH.
I recall an anguished appeal by a lawyer, many years ago. A judge in Oxford Crown Court had been very sarcastic, when sentencing his client. Feelings were hurt apparently.
The chap in question had tried to steal a car. An occupied car, it turned out, to his surprise. Occupied by two police officers. In uniform.
I remember reading in the Ham and High around 35 years ago about the exploits of a bank robber who stroked the same building society in Kilburn three times. After two successful attempts, on the third occasion he was arrested at the bus stop adjacent to the building society. When questioned by police, he confirmed his modus operandi never changed because the building society was conveniently close to a stop for the bus home.
To be fair - he was outdoing RC1000's novice traders. A strategy that worked twice in the real world.
Last year an aquaintance had a burglary in her building. The policeman who came to take statements said that they had already caught the criminal.
Apparently, the description of the distinctive way that the door had been broken open led them to get a warrant. He was discovered to be in possession of a number of the stolen items - computers etc.
Apparently he had just been released from prison. And had followed the same pattern several times before - released, committed the same crime in the same way, caught, sentenced....
Comments
If so many people hadn’t been killed through sheer fuckwittery it would be one of the great comedy history novels of them all.
Protests on Saturday - sparked by the death of George Floyd - were largely peaceful, but were marred later by disturbances outside Downing Street.
One demonstrator, who was not at Downing Street, saw officers "acting very aggressively" elsewhere.
Largely peaceful say the BBC, just 27 officers hurt....and the BBC back it up with somebody who wasn't there says they thought the police were horrid, but obviously no evidence.
https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/
The Bengal Famine wasn't just an isolated incident.
What’s more, if those who pulled it down are identified, they’ll have to pay for it.
So you should apolgise too.
But why stop there? Shouldn’t the Nepalese apologise for their role in the Amritsar Massacre?
Yes, our old friend reporting lag...
But I apologise for the Irish famine, and we should give Northern Ireland back to the Republic as compensation.
I'm not even reading the comments now.
The middle and upper classes do well, and a lot of BAME aren't in those classes.
My grandfather turned up in this country from a country far away and he was instantly a member of the middle class.
Had he have been a manual worker working in the mills I'm not sure I'd have had the same life opportunities that I've enjoyed.
https://twitter.com/business/status/1269654143708401665?s=19
https://twitter.com/Ross_Greer/status/1269688653275705346
The Republic of Ireland is also richer than Northern Ireland now so would have to subsidise the latter, not the reverse
In the broader view, an Empire doesn’t need formal colonies.
(runs and hides)
I’m talking about NZ, a parliamentary and multi-ethnic democracy.
So rather than accept personal responsibility for my error, I can blame the collective.
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/52-americans-support-deploying-military-control-violent-protests/story?id=71097167&cid=clicksource_4380645_4_three_posts_card_hed
Is it only ok if black people resent physical legacies of the slave trade?
Looking at past Sundays...
Covid: Daily deaths announced on Sundays by the NHS in England
7th June: 72
31st May: 85
24th May: 147
17th May: 90
10th May: 178
3rd May: 327
26th April: 336
19th April: 482
12th April: 657
5th April: 555
The peak in early April is, of course, obvious - but it also looks like evidence for the "fat tail" on the death graph (suggested by @Foxy IIRC.) Even if new cases don't start to trend upwards again it may be quite a long time before the fatalities really begin to peter out.
Emancipate yourself from mental slavery!
Young robbery suspects arrested after flagging down unmarked police car they thought was their getaway taxi
https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/robbery-suspects-arrested-taxi-police-18378862
I am in favour of putting up explanatory signs giving a fuller and more accurate account of the people remembered in statues, precisely because we should not seek to obliterate the past but understand it better. Mob rule and criminal damage do neither.
The extreme example of this can be seen in the US. For example, very poor Chinese immigrants in New York have done very well in getting into the selective schools run by the state.
So well, in fact that the Mayor of New York has discussed a quota system to "rebalance the intake" -
https://www.ft.com/content/23308a34-bd2c-11e9-b350-db00d509634e
2000,
iirc the anticapitalist protests had a well-earned breather in the early to mid noughties.
If they carry on like this public opinion will be against them The breakdown of that poll shows why it's likely too early to pay much attention to them.
No way Biden will be at only a +73% margin with black voters on election day.
Put it this way, why would a police force go to a foreign embassy for training?
Would Dawn Butler MP even notice?
The Israelis pointed out that was bollocks - among other things, they have caught quite a number of suicide bombers alive.
We aren't France, where it is expected you set fire to stuff and have a dust up with the police, otherwise it wasn't a proper protest.
When you consider how many truly formidable handicaps Humphrey was labouring under, the fact he lost by such a narrow margin says a lot about how strong a candidate he might have been in other circumstances.
Edit - it’s interesting to note this particular statue had itself been demolished and defaced before being re-erected in Manchester.
https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/soviet-engels-statue
https://twitter.com/JenWilliamsMEN/status/1269674931308179458?s=09
He was expected to work for virtually nothing in the family business.
In return all food, fees, loans, books & travel was provided by the family. When he went to university, he was given enough to ensure he didn't have to work. All contingent on getting good grades.
What he did have to do, was look after the house that was bought by the family as an investment - and fill it with his student friends as paying lodgers.
The differences tended to be from attitudes outside the family - in particular from schools.
The chap in question had tried to steal a car. An occupied car, it turned out, to his surprise. Occupied by two police officers. In uniform.
Chlorinated chicken is emblematic of wider issues. Bucaneering free market and tough luck to the farmers/manufacturers etc or taking control of our own food regulations and onshore goods in a buy British campaign?
I suspect the financiers of Brexit fancy the former, but it will be like a turd in the swimming pool for the majority of patriotic Brexit voters, particularly in the Red/Blue Wall.
It is not going to be possible to ride both horses for much longer. A choice is going to have to be made.
In reality there was massive pressure against it. Be it the British Empire or the fledgling United States.
When you look at contemporary letters even a great number of the fucking slave owners knew what they were doing was morally reprehensible.
Cases are thus (note the last few days of data will really come in next week)
But if we ever have PB pub drinkies again, I will put some of the money behind the bar for those of you brave enough to turn up.
There: what could be fairer than that!
"Black": is not a homogeneous culture - Ghanian culture is very different to Afro-Caribbean for example.
I imagine something along these lines needs to be posted on a daily basis for the next month, just like the clarifications about the difference between deaths on a day vs deaths reported on a day is strangely needed regularly.
https://twitter.com/BBradley_Mans/status/1269692138662608903?s=19
Last year an aquaintance had a burglary in her building. The policeman who came to take statements said that they had already caught the criminal.
Apparently, the description of the distinctive way that the door had been broken open led them to get a warrant. He was discovered to be in possession of a number of the stolen items - computers etc.
Apparently he had just been released from prison. And had followed the same pattern several times before - released, committed the same crime in the same way, caught, sentenced....