Don't forget ladies and gentlemen, that fishing makes up 0.1% of our GDP
Throwing the “fisherpeople” under the bus in 1973 was perhaps where modern Euroscepticism started.
It may be insignificant, but it seems offends a sense of fair play. The EU would do well to cave on this in exchange for British compromise on level playing field etc.
It's a complete myth. It was losing access to waters for long distance trawling as coastal limits were increased that decimated the British fishing industry. The EEC was just a scapegoat.
Slavers no more represent "my race" than Jimmy Saville did. Farage can go f**k himself with a rusty screwdriver as far as I'm concerned with this post.
If there's going to be a riot between those pro-slavery and those anti-slavery I'll stand on the anti-slavery side thank you very much.
Amazing all the labourites cheering on criminal behaviour. Remember their outrage at Big Dom behaviour and.claims he would encourage the dangerous behaviour by the public.
Now we literally have labourites advocating forget covid (that think that disproportionately kills BAME individuals) and get into mobs to go smash shit up.
Lots of stuff used to be illegal that shouldn't have been. Some stuff is still illegal that shouldn't be. Sometimes doing what's right matters more than obeying the law. Plenty of stuff would never have changed if nobody had been willing to break the law. A statue of a man who became wealthy on the bloody murder of the slave trade should have been taken down years ago. If this was the only way to get it done, I am happy to applaud it.
So give me an apology for your role in the Irish Potato Famine.
Now.
Are you drinking already? That doesn't even make sense.
Irish Lives Matter
though not to you it seems
I would happily endorse the removal of any statues of British people who played any role in the Irish famine. It was a monstrous crime and another example of our problematic history. The Atlantic slave economy and the plantations at their core built on the British colonial experiment in Ireland, as you know, so the two issues are of course related. Since I am part Irish I'm certainly not going to deny that Irish lives matter, I'd like to see them mattering a whole lot more, in a united Ireland by consent. I'm just a bit confused as to why you are bringing it up since we weren't talking about it.
You should set your weeping and wailing about British evil to one of the gloomier bits of Elgar.
1. The equestrian statue of Charles I, licenser and supporter of slave traders, that looks along Whitehall.
2. The statue of Charles II, charterer of the Royal African Company founded in 1660 shortly after the restoration, in Soho Square.
3. The statue of James II, the leading figure in the said Company who as Duke of York had his slaves branded "DY" and gave his name to the city and state of New York, in front of the National Gallery.
There's nothing stopping Boris Johnson from addressing the country tonight and saying we get the point, we're with you, there was no justification for slavery then and there's none for honouring slavers now, we'll take them down.
Why should we want to erase our history to appease the extreme left?
Don't forget ladies and gentlemen, that fishing makes up 0.1% of our GDP
Throwing the “fisherpeople” under the bus in 1973 was perhaps where modern Euroscepticism started.
It may be insignificant, but it seems offends a sense of fair play. The EU would do well to cave on this in exchange for British compromise on level playing field etc.
Euroscepticism started well before 1973.
Elizabeth I and her 'I think it foul scorn that any Prince of Europe should dare invade the borders of my realm' is more like it.
Slavers no more represent "my race" than Jimmy Saville did. Farage can go f**k himself with a rusty screwdriver as far as I'm concerned with this post.
If there's going to be a riot between those pro-slavery and those anti-slavery I'll stand on the anti-slavery side thank you very much.
Farage is ever more desperate for relevance. He clearly can't abide not having the daily fix of being on TV or radio.
If loads of young people are going to totally ignore dangers of covid, day in day out, vandalising statues, time for them all back to school, college and work, and no summer holidays to make up for all the lost time....amazing how covid will all of a sudden becomes too dangerous again.
Amazing all the labourites cheering on criminal behaviour. Remember their outrage at Big Dom behaviour and.claims he would encourage the dangerous behaviour by the public.
Now we literally have labourites advocating forget covid (that think that disproportionately kills BAME individuals) and get into mobs to go smash shit up.
Lots of stuff used to be illegal that shouldn't have been. Some stuff is still illegal that shouldn't be. Sometimes doing what's right matters more than obeying the law. Plenty of stuff would never have changed if nobody had been willing to break the law. A statue of a man who became wealthy on the bloody murder of the slave trade should have been taken down years ago. If this was the only way to get it done, I am happy to applaud it.
So give me an apology for your role in the Irish Potato Famine.
Now.
Are you drinking already? That doesn't even make sense.
Irish Lives Matter
though not to you it seems
I would happily endorse the removal of any statues of British people who played any role in the Irish famine. It was a monstrous crime and another example of our problematic history. The Atlantic slave economy and the plantations at their core built on the British colonial experiment in Ireland, as you know, so the two issues are of course related. Since I am part Irish I'm certainly not going to deny that Irish lives matter, I'd like to see them mattering a whole lot more, in a united Ireland by consent. I'm just a bit confused as to why you are bringing it up since we weren't talking about it.
]Because you asking people to apolgise for evernts outside there experience is as logical as me holding you responsible for potato blight.
When did I ask anybody to apologise? I am just glad that a man who profited from the greatest crime in the history of humanity is no longer being honoured with a statue in one of our cities. I am genuinely surprised that is a controversial view, TBH.
You are genuinely surprised that a bunch of white extremists telling the people of Bristol what statues they can and can’t have because of their own particular views on how people should respond to race and racism is controversial?
It’s a view.
Yes it is surprising to me. The guy is a mass murderer, the statue should have been removed years ago. Like I say, the crowd I saw was mixed, but I don't know why the race of the people involved is important.
As I have said three times, because most black people in Bristol actually wanted to keep it for a number of good reasons that had nothing to do with admiration of Colston. And that has been overruled by a bunch of whites who think they know better than they do.
And I am getting sick of trying to get this simple message across. This crowd are not heroes. They are not legitimate protestors. THey are certainly not protesting about the murder of George Floyd. They are violent, racist and anti-democratic thugs and scum.
Anyone who defends them is defending that.
I am queasy at statues being toppled, but it seems clear that Colston was a bad ‘un. He may have done a lot of good work for charidee, but so did Jimmy Savile.
Can’t we agree that the statue probably doesn’t belong where it stood any more, and that toppling the statue, while regrettable, is perhaps understandable in this political climate?
Breaking the law to violently impose your view on others when it has been rejected is never understandable.
I don’t like seeing it. I think it’s vandalism. But part of me says that you can’t have a omelette without breaking some eggs.
If an increased consciousness of structural racism means we have to live without the statue of a slave trader in central Bristol, then...seems a small price to pay?
The danger is that it makes the next illegal escalation easier. There is a line on legality. That works both ways.
Don't forget ladies and gentlemen, that fishing makes up 0.1% of our GDP
Throwing the “fisherpeople” under the bus in 1973 was perhaps where modern Euroscepticism started.
It may be insignificant, but it seems offends a sense of fair play. The EU would do well to cave on this in exchange for British compromise on level playing field etc.
Amazing all the labourites cheering on criminal behaviour. Remember their outrage at Big Dom behaviour and.claims he would encourage the dangerous behaviour by the public.
Now we literally have labourites advocating forget covid (that think that disproportionately kills BAME individuals) and get into mobs to go smash shit up.
Lots of stuff used to be illegal that shouldn't have been. Some stuff is still illegal that shouldn't be. Sometimes doing what's right matters more than obeying the law. Plenty of stuff would never have changed if nobody had been willing to break the law. A statue of a man who became wealthy on the bloody murder of the slave trade should have been taken down years ago. If this was the only way to get it done, I am happy to applaud it.
So give me an apology for your role in the Irish Potato Famine.
Now.
Are you drinking already? That doesn't even make sense.
Irish Lives Matter
though not to you it seems
I would happily endorse the removal of any statues of British people who played any role in the Irish famine. It was a monstrous crime and another example of our problematic history. The Atlantic slave economy and the plantations at their core built on the British colonial experiment in Ireland, as you know, so the two issues are of course related. Since I am part Irish I'm certainly not going to deny that Irish lives matter, I'd like to see them mattering a whole lot more, in a united Ireland by consent. I'm just a bit confused as to why you are bringing it up since we weren't talking about it.
So just to be clear - you want to tear down every statue of Gladstone?
I don't know a whole lot about Gladstone - wasn't he the one who used to hang around with prostitutes? Was he as unambiguously responsible for the famine as a man who ran the company that ran the slave trade was responsible for the slave trade? Did Gladstone do enough other good stuff to in any way balance his role in the famine? I don't know enough about this subject to have a strong view to be honest, you should ask Alenbrooke to enlighten you, the Irish angle was his non sequitur not mine.
He was President of the Board of Trade, responsible for food supplies.
The issue with Colston is that he endowed a huge number of public works and buildings in Bristol - paid for with money from slaving. Most of them are still in place. Should they be demolished? Because ultimately, pulling down a statue and yet leaving the practical effects of his life and crimes in place renders the whole thing more pointless than a broken pencil. Worse, it arguably helps airbrush the distinctly dubious foundations of those things from history.
The issue with excusing any such act of desecration like this is what comes next. And whether that too can be excused. And the next. And the next.
I'm not sure what trench the apologists for the vandals would fight in.
Don't forget ladies and gentlemen, that fishing makes up 0.1% of our GDP
Throwing the “fisherpeople” under the bus in 1973 was perhaps where modern Euroscepticism started.
It may be insignificant, but it seems offends a sense of fair play. The EU would do well to cave on this in exchange for British compromise on level playing field etc.
It's a complete myth. It was losing access to waters for long distance trawling as coastal limits were increased that decimated the British fishing industry. The EEC was just a scapegoat.
You have no idea of the feelings of Scottish Fishermen at the time whose fury knew no bounds and still does
Don't forget ladies and gentlemen, that fishing makes up 0.1% of our GDP
Throwing the “fisherpeople” under the bus in 1973 was perhaps where modern Euroscepticism started.
It may be insignificant, but it seems offends a sense of fair play. The EU would do well to cave on this in exchange for British compromise on level playing field etc.
Euroscepticism started well before 1973.
Modern, Alanbrooke. Modern. I appreciate modernity is a foreign concept to you.
Well since Im 59 next month and can remember the campaign in 1973 (your choice of year ) and the rerun in 1975 Im perhaps in a better place to give a view since from memory you werent actually in the UK by dint of not yet being born.
But there was a large unease that we were turning our back on "our own" in the Commonwealth esp. Aus Can and you Kiwis.
On topic, Covid-19 is widening the class divide. The middle classes are eating better, more local food. Those who struggle to make ends meet are seeing their choices deteriorate. The government doesn’t seem to be doing any thinking about this at all.
I'm not sure what the Government think or does at all.
It only took a couple of nights for the Coalition to wake up and get a grip on law & order nationwide, and start bringing looters to justice, in 2011.
Boris called Cameron a girly swot. He clearly thinks that hard work is for suckers.
Slavers no more represent "my race" than Jimmy Saville did. Farage can go f**k himself with a rusty screwdriver as far as I'm concerned with this post.
If there's going to be a riot between those pro-slavery and those anti-slavery I'll stand on the anti-slavery side thank you very much.
Damn straight.
Pretty sure mass race riots weren't in the SAGE models for the plague, but happy to be corrected.
Don't forget ladies and gentlemen, that fishing makes up 0.1% of our GDP
Throwing the “fisherpeople” under the bus in 1973 was perhaps where modern Euroscepticism started.
It may be insignificant, but it seems offends a sense of fair play. The EU would do well to cave on this in exchange for British compromise on level playing field etc.
It's a complete myth. It was losing access to waters for long distance trawling as coastal limits were increased that decimated the British fishing industry. The EEC was just a scapegoat.
You have no idea of the feelings of Scottish Fishermen at the time whose fury knew no bounds and still does
Don't forget ladies and gentlemen, that fishing makes up 0.1% of our GDP
Throwing the “fisherpeople” under the bus in 1973 was perhaps where modern Euroscepticism started.
It may be insignificant, but it seems offends a sense of fair play. The EU would do well to cave on this in exchange for British compromise on level playing field etc.
It's a complete myth. It was losing access to waters for long distance trawling as coastal limits were increased that decimated the British fishing industry. The EEC was just a scapegoat.
You have no idea of the feelings of Scottish Fishermen at the time whose fury knew no bounds and still does
Feelings aren't facts.
Of course they are as the fleet was decimated
I well remember going from boat to boat across the harbours of Lossiemouth and Eyemouth with the markets full of wonderful fish and all that came to an end under the EU
The EU will not be forgiven by British Fishermen.
Why do you think Boris is fighting for them and willing to walk away
Boris best not reshuffle Patel. She's not publicly defended Cummings & is annoying all the right people on Twitter at the moment. Also was the lone voice if reports were believed for quarantine when it mattered. Top gal.
Amazing all the labourites cheering on criminal behaviour. Remember their outrage at Big Dom behaviour and.claims he would encourage the dangerous behaviour by the public.
Now we literally have labourites advocating forget covid (that think that disproportionately kills BAME individuals) and get into mobs to go smash shit up.
Lots of stuff used to be illegal that shouldn't have been. Some stuff is still illegal that shouldn't be. Sometimes doing what's right matters more than obeying the law. Plenty of stuff would never have changed if nobody had been willing to break the law. A statue of a man who became wealthy on the bloody murder of the slave trade should have been taken down years ago. If this was the only way to get it done, I am happy to applaud it.
So give me an apology for your role in the Irish Potato Famine.
Now.
Are you drinking already? That doesn't even make sense.
Irish Lives Matter
though not to you it seems
I would happily endorse the removal of any statues of British people who played any role in the Irish famine. It was a monstrous crime and another example of our problematic history. The Atlantic slave economy and the plantations at their core built on the British colonial experiment in Ireland, as you know, so the two issues are of course related. Since I am part Irish I'm certainly not going to deny that Irish lives matter, I'd like to see them mattering a whole lot more, in a united Ireland by consent. I'm just a bit confused as to why you are bringing it up since we weren't talking about it.
So just to be clear - you want to tear down every statue of Gladstone?
I don't know a whole lot about Gladstone - wasn't he the one who used to hang around with prostitutes? Was he as unambiguously responsible for the famine as a man who ran the company that ran the slave trade was responsible for the slave trade? Did Gladstone do enough other good stuff to in any way balance his role in the famine? I don't know enough about this subject to have a strong view to be honest, you should ask Alenbrooke to enlighten you, the Irish angle was his non sequitur not mine.
He was President of the Board of Trade, responsible for food supplies.
The issue with Colston is that he endowed a huge number of public works and buildings in Bristol - paid for with money from slaving. Most of them are still in place. Should they be demolished? Because ultimately, pulling down a statue and yet leaving the practical effects of his life and crimes in place renders the whole thing more pointless than a broken pencil. Worse, it arguably helps airbrush the distinctly dubious foundations of those things from history.
The issue with excusing any such act of desecration like this is what comes next. And whether that too can be excused. And the next. And the next.
I'm not sure what trench the apologists for the vandals would fight in.
Law breaking occurs on a daily basis, small and large. We don't live in a zero tolerance Police State.
This is low-level law breaking that I honestly couldn't care less about. Hurting public/Police/horses etc matters far more.
Amazing all the labourites cheering on criminal behaviour. Remember their outrage at Big Dom behaviour and.claims he would encourage the dangerous behaviour by the public.
Now we literally have labourites advocating forget covid (that think that disproportionately kills BAME individuals) and get into mobs to go smash shit up.
Lots of stuff used to be illegal that shouldn't have been. Some stuff is still illegal that shouldn't be. Sometimes doing what's right matters more than obeying the law. Plenty of stuff would never have changed if nobody had been willing to break the law. A statue of a man who became wealthy on the bloody murder of the slave trade should have been taken down years ago. If this was the only way to get it done, I am happy to applaud it.
So give me an apology for your role in the Irish Potato Famine.
Now.
Are you drinking already? That doesn't even make sense.
Irish Lives Matter
though not to you it seems
I would happily endorse the removal of any statues of British people who played any role in the Irish famine. It was a monstrous crime and another example of our problematic history. The Atlantic slave economy and the plantations at their core built on the British colonial experiment in Ireland, as you know, so the two issues are of course related. Since I am part Irish I'm certainly not going to deny that Irish lives matter, I'd like to see them mattering a whole lot more, in a united Ireland by consent. I'm just a bit confused as to why you are bringing it up since we weren't talking about it.
So just to be clear - you want to tear down every statue of Gladstone?
I don't know a whole lot about Gladstone - wasn't he the one who used to hang around with prostitutes? Was he as unambiguously responsible for the famine as a man who ran the company that ran the slave trade was responsible for the slave trade? Did Gladstone do enough other good stuff to in any way balance his role in the famine? I don't know enough about this subject to have a strong view to be honest, you should ask Alenbrooke to enlighten you, the Irish angle was his non sequitur not mine.
He was President of the Board of Trade, responsible for food supplies.
The issue with Colston is that he endowed a huge number of public works and buildings in Bristol - paid for with money from slaving. Most of them are still in place. Should they be demolished? Because ultimately, pulling down a statue and yet leaving the practical effects of his life and crimes in place renders the whole thing more pointless than a broken pencil. Worse, it arguably helps airbrush the distinctly dubious foundations of those things from history.
The issue with excusing any such act of desecration like this is what comes next. And whether that too can be excused. And the next. And the next.
I'm not sure what trench the apologists for the vandals would fight in.
It's about a bunch of people, butt hurt about the last election result, persuading themselves that the modern UK is South Africa c. 1975.
I can live with teh UK Taliban chucking statues of slave traders into harbours. I can doubly live with it if Farage does not like it ...
Chuck another few statues in
And there go the left's pretensions to any belief in the rule of law. Oh well, I guess we can just ignore them on that topic for the foreseeable future...
As I posted earlier
"Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun."
Don't forget ladies and gentlemen, that fishing makes up 0.1% of our GDP
Throwing the “fisherpeople” under the bus in 1973 was perhaps where modern Euroscepticism started.
It may be insignificant, but it seems offends a sense of fair play. The EU would do well to cave on this in exchange for British compromise on level playing field etc.
It's a complete myth. It was losing access to waters for long distance trawling as coastal limits were increased that decimated the British fishing industry. The EEC was just a scapegoat.
Didn’t British (and other EEC entrant state) fishing waters become equal access? And wasn’t such policy agreed by the original 6 just a day or something before the EEC entry applications were made?
I see they mention Buckland, Truss, Jenrick and Coffey too.
I was surprised when Patel didn't parrot the Cummings National Party line. Brave Minister, brave.
Patel defied the line on Cummings and came out firmly against criminal damage being caused by protestors today, she knows what she is doing and is building a base in the party
The full story of the Nimrod MRA4 would also be good.
As would the history of UK attempts at AEW&C radar planes. Hint - apart from an early mashup using a Wellington in WWII, every single attempt was an abject failure. Yes, I am aware of the smaller projects that worked such as Gannets and Sea Kings - but all the big attempts were a complete failure.
In my primary school library there was a book called The World's 100 Worst Disasters or some such, it was a slightly weird compendium including the Paisley cinema disaster, the Indian Mutiny and the R101 crash. While the more alpha lads were kicking a tennis ball during lunchtime I'd pore over it, it was doubtless a formative influence.
Would you say there was perhaps a culture of fuckwittery in some of the history of British aeronautics?
Yes. Sufficient idiocy that Frank Whittle had the design for the jet engine turned down in 1930 and so took the jet engine aboard to develop it. They even let him patent it in his own name!
Also, Parsons and the marine turbine - it only succeeded because he rubbed the noses of the Admiralty in it publicly by steaming past them all at high speed at Portsmouth after they had turned him down.
Parson and the steam turbine - that's a bit of an urban legend. There are letters discussing his projects between him and the Engineer in chief of the Royal Navy. Full of encouragement form the RN side - essentially laying out what they were looking for from turbines, in terms of economy and reliability.
There is even some evidence that the Turbina demonstration was a put up job to get the politicians to cough up money to fund the first turbine powered ships.
The idea that people will suddenly decide to vote for Boris Johnson out of deference to the reputation of Churchill is a bizarre logical leap.
They won't but they will not support mindless vandalism and rioting. This will play into the governments hands unless labour come out strongly against and in favour of law and order
And in all this has Starmer submerged again to continue his letter writing?
The idea that people will suddenly decide to vote for Boris Johnson out of deference to the reputation of Churchill is a bizarre logical leap.
It wil keep Leavers firmly in the Tory tent though and One nation Tory Remainers
So if some street anarchists hadn't slagged off Churchill Leavers and One Nation Tories would now be looking elsewhere, but as they did do it these voters are now staying put?
1. The equestrian statue of Charles I, licenser and supporter of slave traders, that looks along Whitehall.
2. The statue of Charles II, charterer of the Royal African Company founded in 1660 shortly after the restoration, in Soho Square.
3. The statue of James II, the leading figure in the said Company who as Duke of York had his slaves branded "DY" and gave his name to the city and state of New York, in front of the National Gallery.
There's nothing stopping Boris Johnson from addressing the country tonight and saying we get the point, we're with you, there was no justification for slavery then and there's none for honouring slavers now, we'll take them down.
Why should we want to erase our history to appease the extreme left?
We don't need to erase our history to stop celebrating those who don't fit our morals today.
If there was a statue to Jimmy Saville put up years ago due to his philanthropy would you be ok with taking that down due to what's come to light since?
Same with slavers. The evilness of what they did wasn't appreciated in the past, it is now. Philanthropy doesn't make up for that.
We can learn about it in history without celebrating it anymore.
The idea that people will suddenly decide to vote for Boris Johnson out of deference to the reputation of Churchill is a bizarre logical leap.
It wil keep Leavers firmly in the Tory tent though and One nation Tory Remainers
So if some street anarchists hadn't slagged off Churchill Leavers and One Nation Tories would now be looking elsewhere, but as they did do it these voters are now staying put?
The extreme left are the current government's best friends. They keep people firmly voting Conservative.
Don't forget ladies and gentlemen, that fishing makes up 0.1% of our GDP
Throwing the “fisherpeople” under the bus in 1973 was perhaps where modern Euroscepticism started.
It may be insignificant, but it seems offends a sense of fair play. The EU would do well to cave on this in exchange for British compromise on level playing field etc.
It's a complete myth. It was losing access to waters for long distance trawling as coastal limits were increased that decimated the British fishing industry. The EEC was just a scapegoat.
You have no idea of the feelings of Scottish Fishermen at the time whose fury knew no bounds and still does
Feelings aren't facts.
Of course they are as the fleet was decimated
I well remember going from boat to boat across the harbours of Lossiemouth and Eyemouth with the markets full of wonderful fish and all that came to an end under the EU
The EU will not be forgiven by British Fishermen.
Why do you think Boris is fighting for them and willing to walk away
The fishermen were going to crash anyway thanks to their own greed and overfishing. They then sold their own birthright to all comers. They do like to pretend otherwise.
It's the west coast inshore fisherment who really are going to catch it in the neck with Brexit.
Slavers no more represent "my race" than Jimmy Saville did. Farage can go f**k himself with a rusty screwdriver as far as I'm concerned with this post.
If there's going to be a riot between those pro-slavery and those anti-slavery I'll stand on the anti-slavery side thank you very much.
Farage is ever more desperate for relevance. He clearly can't abide not having the daily fix of being on TV or radio.
Desperate and pathetic.
Farage is and always has been another dangerous clown
Amazing all the labourites cheering on criminal behaviour. Remember their outrage at Big Dom behaviour and.claims he would encourage the dangerous behaviour by the public.
Now we literally have labourites advocating forget covid (that think that disproportionately kills BAME individuals) and get into mobs to go smash shit up.
Lots of stuff used to be illegal that shouldn't have been. Some stuff is still illegal that shouldn't be. Sometimes doing what's right matters more than obeying the law. Plenty of stuff would never have changed if nobody had been willing to break the law. A statue of a man who became wealthy on the bloody murder of the slave trade should have been taken down years ago. If this was the only way to get it done, I am happy to applaud it.
So give me an apology for your role in the Irish Potato Famine.
Now.
Are you drinking already? That doesn't even make sense.
Irish Lives Matter
though not to you it seems
I would happily endorse the removal of any statues of British people who played any role in the Irish famine. It was a monstrous crime and another example of our problematic history. The Atlantic slave economy and the plantations at their core built on the British colonial experiment in Ireland, as you know, so the two issues are of course related. Since I am part Irish I'm certainly not going to deny that Irish lives matter, I'd like to see them mattering a whole lot more, in a united Ireland by consent. I'm just a bit confused as to why you are bringing it up since we weren't talking about it.
]Because you asking people to apolgise for evernts outside there experience is as logical as me holding you responsible for potato blight.
When did I ask anybody to apologise? I am just glad that a man who profited from the greatest crime in the history of humanity is no longer being honoured with a statue in one of our cities. I am genuinely surprised that is a controversial view, TBH.
You are genuinely surprised that a bunch of white extremists telling the people of Bristol what statues they can and can’t have because of their own particular views on how people should respond to race and racism is controversial?
It’s a view.
Yes it is surprising to me. The guy is a mass murderer, the statue should have been removed years ago. Like I say, the crowd I saw was mixed, but I don't know why the race of the people involved is important.
Wasn't the Prophet Mohammed a slave owner ?
Would you favour the closure of mosques because of it ?
Sure, why not?
I'm going to file pulling down a statue to a slave trader in the same kind of category as driving to Barnhard Castle during lockdown - sure its illegal technically but I honestly couldn't care less about it.
Its right not to have statues to slave traders in 21st century. Maybe the statue can be recovered and put in a museum somewhere but not out and about on display.
Surely, the right response is to destroy statues of Muhammad?
The idea that people will suddenly decide to vote for Boris Johnson out of deference to the reputation of Churchill is a bizarre logical leap.
They won't but they will not support mindless vandalism and rioting. This will play into the governments hands unless labour come out strongly against and in favour of law and order
And in all this has Starmer submerged again to continue his letter writing?
He's waiting to see which way the wind blows then he'll wipe his arse.
The idea that people will suddenly decide to vote for Boris Johnson out of deference to the reputation of Churchill is a bizarre logical leap.
They won't but they will not support mindless vandalism and rioting. This will play into the governments hands unless labour come out strongly against and in favour of law and order
And in all this has Starmer submerged again to continue his letter writing?
Strongly against, we have labourites cheering this on. And saying ignore lockdown, this is much more important, and this is after all their outrage over Big Dom.
I can live with teh UK Taliban chucking statues of slave traders into harbours. I can doubly live with it if Farage does not like it ...
Chuck another few statues in
And there go the left's pretensions to any belief in the rule of law. Oh well, I guess we can just ignore them on that topic for the foreseeable future...
As I posted earlier
"Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun."
Amazing all the labourites cheering on criminal behaviour. Remember their outrage at Big Dom behaviour and.claims he would encourage the dangerous behaviour by the public.
Now we literally have labourites advocating forget covid (that think that disproportionately kills BAME individuals) and get into mobs to go smash shit up.
Lots of stuff used to be illegal that shouldn't have been. Some stuff is still illegal that shouldn't be. Sometimes doing what's right matters more than obeying the law. Plenty of stuff would never have changed if nobody had been willing to break the law. A statue of a man who became wealthy on the bloody murder of the slave trade should have been taken down years ago. If this was the only way to get it done, I am happy to applaud it.
So give me an apology for your role in the Irish Potato Famine.
Now.
Are you drinking already? That doesn't even make sense.
Irish Lives Matter
though not to you it seems
I would happily endorse the removal of any statues of British people who played any role in the Irish famine. It was a monstrous crime and another example of our problematic history. The Atlantic slave economy and the plantations at their core built on the British colonial experiment in Ireland, as you know, so the two issues are of course related. Since I am part Irish I'm certainly not going to deny that Irish lives matter, I'd like to see them mattering a whole lot more, in a united Ireland by consent. I'm just a bit confused as to why you are bringing it up since we weren't talking about it.
]Because you asking people to apolgise for evernts outside there experience is as logical as me holding you responsible for potato blight.
When did I ask anybody to apologise? I am just glad that a man who profited from the greatest crime in the history of humanity is no longer being honoured with a statue in one of our cities. I am genuinely surprised that is a controversial view, TBH.
You are genuinely surprised that a bunch of white extremists telling the people of Bristol what statues they can and can’t have because of their own particular views on how people should respond to race and racism is controversial?
It’s a view.
Yes it is surprising to me. The guy is a mass murderer, the statue should have been removed years ago. Like I say, the crowd I saw was mixed, but I don't know why the race of the people involved is important.
Wasn't the Prophet Mohammed a slave owner ?
Would you favour the closure of mosques because of it ?
Sure, why not?
I'm going to file pulling down a statue to a slave trader in the same kind of category as driving to Barnhard Castle during lockdown - sure its illegal technically but I honestly couldn't care less about it.
Its right not to have statues to slave traders in 21st century. Maybe the statue can be recovered and put in a museum somewhere but not out and about on display.
Surely, the right response is to destroy statues of Muhammad?
Just a thought, but maybe it would be a good idea to mutually agree to postpone a massive, street-based cultural war until, like, next Spring?
I think the government need to get a grip now. I understand their desire to let people protest and vent a bit, but I think they are making same mistake as 2011. And this time of course, we have this minor issue of a killer pandemic.
Don't forget ladies and gentlemen, that fishing makes up 0.1% of our GDP
Throwing the “fisherpeople” under the bus in 1973 was perhaps where modern Euroscepticism started.
It may be insignificant, but it seems offends a sense of fair play. The EU would do well to cave on this in exchange for British compromise on level playing field etc.
It's a complete myth. It was losing access to waters for long distance trawling as coastal limits were increased that decimated the British fishing industry. The EEC was just a scapegoat.
Didn’t British (and other EEC entrant state) fishing waters become equal access? And wasn’t such policy agreed by the original 6 just a day or something before the EEC entry applications were made?
Yes. William is being thoroughly dishonest here.
From wiki for ease but easily checkable elsewhere.
The first rules were created in 1970. The original six Common Market members realised that four countries applying to join the Common Market at that time (Britain, Ireland, Denmark including Greenland, and Norway) would control the richest fishing grounds in the world. The original six therefore drew up Council Regulation 2141/70 giving all Members equal access to all fishing waters, even though the Treaty of Rome did not explicitly include fisheries in its agriculture chapter. This was adopted on the morning of 30 June 1970, a few hours before the applications to join were officially received. This ensured that the regulations became part of the acquis communautaire before the new members joined, obliging them to accept the regulation. In its accession negotiations, the UK at first refused to accept the rules but by the end of 1971 the UK gave way and signed the Accession Treaty on 22 January 1972, thereby bringing into the CFP joint management an estimated four fifths of all the fish off Western Europe. Norway decided not to join. Greenland left the EC in 1985, after having gained partial independence from Denmark in 1979.
Don't forget ladies and gentlemen, that fishing makes up 0.1% of our GDP
Throwing the “fisherpeople” under the bus in 1973 was perhaps where modern Euroscepticism started.
It may be insignificant, but it seems offends a sense of fair play. The EU would do well to cave on this in exchange for British compromise on level playing field etc.
It's a complete myth. It was losing access to waters for long distance trawling as coastal limits were increased that decimated the British fishing industry. The EEC was just a scapegoat.
Didn’t British (and other EEC entrant state) fishing waters become equal access? And wasn’t such policy agreed by the original 6 just a day or something before the EEC entry applications were made?
Coastal waters used to have a three mile limit, so much of what we now call "our waters" had free international access anyway. It was the loss of access to Icelandic and even Russian waters that hit our fishing industry hard.
Slavers no more represent "my race" than Jimmy Saville did. Farage can go f**k himself with a rusty screwdriver as far as I'm concerned with this post.
If there's going to be a riot between those pro-slavery and those anti-slavery I'll stand on the anti-slavery side thank you very much.
Farage is ever more desperate for relevance. He clearly can't abide not having the daily fix of being on TV or radio.
Desperate and pathetic.
Farage is and always has been a dangerous clown
Corrected for you.
I do not mind comments on my posts but I have always objected to posters changing a posters original post.
It is just wrong so I have corrected it back on principle
Amazing all the labourites cheering on criminal behaviour. Remember their outrage at Big Dom behaviour and.claims he would encourage the dangerous behaviour by the public.
Now we literally have labourites advocating forget covid (that think that disproportionately kills BAME individuals) and get into mobs to go smash shit up.
Lots of stuff used to be illegal that shouldn't have been. Some stuff is still illegal that shouldn't be. Sometimes doing what's right matters more than obeying the law. Plenty of stuff would never have changed if nobody had been willing to break the law. A statue of a man who became wealthy on the bloody murder of the slave trade should have been taken down years ago. If this was the only way to get it done, I am happy to applaud it.
So give me an apology for your role in the Irish Potato Famine.
Now.
Are you drinking already? That doesn't even make sense.
Irish Lives Matter
though not to you it seems
I would happily endorse the removal of any statues of British people who played any role in the Irish famine. It was a monstrous crime and another example of our problematic history. The Atlantic slave economy and the plantations at their core built on the British colonial experiment in Ireland, as you know, so the two issues are of course related. Since I am part Irish I'm certainly not going to deny that Irish lives matter, I'd like to see them mattering a whole lot more, in a united Ireland by consent. I'm just a bit confused as to why you are bringing it up since we weren't talking about it.
]Because you asking people to apolgise for evernts outside there experience is as logical as me holding you responsible for potato blight.
When did I ask anybody to apologise? I am just glad that a man who profited from the greatest crime in the history of humanity is no longer being honoured with a statue in one of our cities. I am genuinely surprised that is a controversial view, TBH.
You are genuinely surprised that a bunch of white extremists telling the people of Bristol what statues they can and can’t have because of their own particular views on how people should respond to race and racism is controversial?
It’s a view.
Yes it is surprising to me. The guy is a mass murderer, the statue should have been removed years ago. Like I say, the crowd I saw was mixed, but I don't know why the race of the people involved is important.
Wasn't the Prophet Mohammed a slave owner ?
Would you favour the closure of mosques because of it ?
Sure, why not?
I'm going to file pulling down a statue to a slave trader in the same kind of category as driving to Barnhard Castle during lockdown - sure its illegal technically but I honestly couldn't care less about it.
Its right not to have statues to slave traders in 21st century. Maybe the statue can be recovered and put in a museum somewhere but not out and about on display.
Surely, the right response is to destroy statues of Muhammad?
Good. Should have been taken down years ago, it's a shame it took concerned citizens to act for it to go.
Yes, illegal vandalism of historic monuments by a mob is so wonderful, isn't it?
In this specific case, it most certainly is! Put it in a museum. Black people should not be forced to view a monument to a man who saw them as chattel.
Leaving aside the fact that, as I noted upthread, they wanted to keep it have you noticed that everybody in the video is white?
Is there not something rather strange and indeed disturbing about a bunch of white people dictating what non-white people should think and feel and taking violent action on their behalf?
The hypocrisy would be amusing if it wasn’t alarming.
The fact the people of the city have already stated their opinion that they wanted it kept, it makes this act even worse. It is absolute mob rule.
It is absolute anarchy.
1. It's totally unwarranted hooliganism and disorder in any case. 2. It seriously threatens public health because of COVID.
The government needs to stop wringing its hands and instead get the police and if necessary the army to do whatever it takes to clear the streets of these vermin including sending a very clear signal to others that it is not a good idea to join them.
That's working so well in the US...
...you are a complete moron.
Says the most prolific purveyor of infantile drivel this site has ever seen or I would wager ever will.
kinabalu, intelligent input love.
You are recognised across this site for your ill informed woke opinion
xxx
I do my best. That's all one can ask of anybody.
But really - you calling another poster a "moron".
C'mon. That's weapons scale cheek.
I think @Ave_it was being unfathomably polite to you.
I think Priti is dreadful, but if she goes it ends all doubt that Cummings is the de facto Prime Minister.
Let us hope she goes then. I look forward to the usual suspects on here defending Cummings the Dictator
I am not a fan of Patel because of her support for the Death Penalty. But the fact that she had the courage to stand up against the Cummings whitewash has certainly improved her reputation somewhat in my eyes.
It really would be a travesty for a Home Secretary to be dismissed for refusing to support a political advisor flouting the law.
The idea that people will suddenly decide to vote for Boris Johnson out of deference to the reputation of Churchill is a bizarre logical leap.
They won't but they will not support mindless vandalism and rioting. This will play into the governments hands unless labour come out strongly against and in favour of law and order
And in all this has Starmer submerged again to continue his letter writing?
Strongly against, we have labourites cheering this on. And saying ignore lockdown, this is much more important, and this is after all their outrage over Big Dom.
This particular Labourite is very much against the breaking of social distancing rules. But also against the presence of statues to slave traders on our streets.
Don't forget ladies and gentlemen, that fishing makes up 0.1% of our GDP
Throwing the “fisherpeople” under the bus in 1973 was perhaps where modern Euroscepticism started.
It may be insignificant, but it seems offends a sense of fair play. The EU would do well to cave on this in exchange for British compromise on level playing field etc.
It's a complete myth. It was losing access to waters for long distance trawling as coastal limits were increased that decimated the British fishing industry. The EEC was just a scapegoat.
Didn’t British (and other EEC entrant state) fishing waters become equal access? And wasn’t such policy agreed by the original 6 just a day or something before the EEC entry applications were made?
Coastal waters used to have a three mile limit, so much of what we now call "our waters" had free international access anyway. It was the loss of access to Icelandic and even Russian waters that hit our fishing industry hard.
See Richards post (8.45) and how wrong you are.
I remember the fury amongst the Scottish Fishermen so many of whom were family members. Indeed it festered for years and still does
Amazing all the labourites cheering on criminal behaviour. Remember their outrage at Big Dom behaviour and.claims he would encourage the dangerous behaviour by the public.
Now we literally have labourites advocating forget covid (that think that disproportionately kills BAME individuals) and get into mobs to go smash shit up.
Lots of stuff used to be illegal that shouldn't have been. Some stuff is still illegal that shouldn't be. Sometimes doing what's right matters more than obeying the law. Plenty of stuff would never have changed if nobody had been willing to break the law. A statue of a man who became wealthy on the bloody murder of the slave trade should have been taken down years ago. If this was the only way to get it done, I am happy to applaud it.
So give me an apology for your role in the Irish Potato Famine.
Now.
Are you drinking already? That doesn't even make sense.
Irish Lives Matter
though not to you it seems
I would happily endorse the removal of any statues of British people who played any role in the Irish famine. It was a monstrous crime and another example of our problematic history. The Atlantic slave economy and the plantations at their core built on the British colonial experiment in Ireland, as you know, so the two issues are of course related. Since I am part Irish I'm certainly not going to deny that Irish lives matter, I'd like to see them mattering a whole lot more, in a united Ireland by consent. I'm just a bit confused as to why you are bringing it up since we weren't talking about it.
]Because you asking people to apolgise for evernts outside there experience is as logical as me holding you responsible for potato blight.
When did I ask anybody to apologise? I am just glad that a man who profited from the greatest crime in the history of humanity is no longer being honoured with a statue in one of our cities. I am genuinely surprised that is a controversial view, TBH.
You are genuinely surprised that a bunch of white extremists telling the people of Bristol what statues they can and can’t have because of their own particular views on how people should respond to race and racism is controversial?
It’s a view.
Yes it is surprising to me. The guy is a mass murderer, the statue should have been removed years ago. Like I say, the crowd I saw was mixed, but I don't know why the race of the people involved is important.
Wasn't the Prophet Mohammed a slave owner ?
Would you favour the closure of mosques because of it ?
Sure, why not?
I'm going to file pulling down a statue to a slave trader in the same kind of category as driving to Barnhard Castle during lockdown - sure its illegal technically but I honestly couldn't care less about it.
Its right not to have statues to slave traders in 21st century. Maybe the statue can be recovered and put in a museum somewhere but not out and about on display.
Surely, the right response is to destroy statues of Muhammad?
Amazing all the labourites cheering on criminal behaviour. Remember their outrage at Big Dom behaviour and.claims he would encourage the dangerous behaviour by the public.
Now we literally have labourites advocating forget covid (that think that disproportionately kills BAME individuals) and get into mobs to go smash shit up.
Lots of stuff used to be illegal that shouldn't have been. Some stuff is still illegal that shouldn't be. Sometimes doing what's right matters more than obeying the law. Plenty of stuff would never have changed if nobody had been willing to break the law. A statue of a man who became wealthy on the bloody murder of the slave trade should have been taken down years ago. If this was the only way to get it done, I am happy to applaud it.
So give me an apology for your role in the Irish Potato Famine.
Now.
Are you drinking already? That doesn't even make sense.
Irish Lives Matter
though not to you it seems
I would happily endorse the removal of any statues of British people who played any role in the Irish famine. It was a monstrous crime and another example of our problematic history. The Atlantic slave economy and the plantations at their core built on the British colonial experiment in Ireland, as you know, so the two issues are of course related. Since I am part Irish I'm certainly not going to deny that Irish lives matter, I'd like to see them mattering a whole lot more, in a united Ireland by consent. I'm just a bit confused as to why you are bringing it up since we weren't talking about it.
]Because you asking people to apolgise for evernts outside there experience is as logical as me holding you responsible for potato blight.
When did I ask anybody to apologise? I am just glad that a man who profited from the greatest crime in the history of humanity is no longer being honoured with a statue in one of our cities. I am genuinely surprised that is a controversial view, TBH.
You are genuinely surprised that a bunch of white extremists telling the people of Bristol what statues they can and can’t have because of their own particular views on how people should respond to race and racism is controversial?
It’s a view.
Yes it is surprising to me. The guy is a mass murderer, the statue should have been removed years ago. Like I say, the crowd I saw was mixed, but I don't know why the race of the people involved is important.
Wasn't the Prophet Mohammed a slave owner ?
Would you favour the closure of mosques because of it ?
Sure, why not?
I'm going to file pulling down a statue to a slave trader in the same kind of category as driving to Barnhard Castle during lockdown - sure its illegal technically but I honestly couldn't care less about it.
Its right not to have statues to slave traders in 21st century. Maybe the statue can be recovered and put in a museum somewhere but not out and about on display.
Surely, the right response is to destroy statues of Muhammad?
Amazing all the labourites cheering on criminal behaviour. Remember their outrage at Big Dom behaviour and.claims he would encourage the dangerous behaviour by the public.
Now we literally have labourites advocating forget covid (that think that disproportionately kills BAME individuals) and get into mobs to go smash shit up.
Lots of stuff used to be illegal that shouldn't have been. Some stuff is still illegal that shouldn't be. Sometimes doing what's right matters more than obeying the law. Plenty of stuff would never have changed if nobody had been willing to break the law. A statue of a man who became wealthy on the bloody murder of the slave trade should have been taken down years ago. If this was the only way to get it done, I am happy to applaud it.
So give me an apology for your role in the Irish Potato Famine.
Now.
Are you drinking already? That doesn't even make sense.
Irish Lives Matter
though not to you it seems
I would happily endorse the removal of any statues of British people who played any role in the Irish famine. It was a monstrous crime and another example of our problematic history. The Atlantic slave economy and the plantations at their core built on the British colonial experiment in Ireland, as you know, so the two issues are of course related. Since I am part Irish I'm certainly not going to deny that Irish lives matter, I'd like to see them mattering a whole lot more, in a united Ireland by consent. I'm just a bit confused as to why you are bringing it up since we weren't talking about it.
]Because you asking people to apolgise for evernts outside there experience is as logical as me holding you responsible for potato blight.
When did I ask anybody to apologise? I am just glad that a man who profited from the greatest crime in the history of humanity is no longer being honoured with a statue in one of our cities. I am genuinely surprised that is a controversial view, TBH.
You are genuinely surprised that a bunch of white extremists telling the people of Bristol what statues they can and can’t have because of their own particular views on how people should respond to race and racism is controversial?
It’s a view.
Yes it is surprising to me. The guy is a mass murderer, the statue should have been removed years ago. Like I say, the crowd I saw was mixed, but I don't know why the race of the people involved is important.
Wasn't the Prophet Mohammed a slave owner ?
Would you favour the closure of mosques because of it ?
Sure, why not?
I'm going to file pulling down a statue to a slave trader in the same kind of category as driving to Barnhard Castle during lockdown - sure its illegal technically but I honestly couldn't care less about it.
Its right not to have statues to slave traders in 21st century. Maybe the statue can be recovered and put in a museum somewhere but not out and about on display.
Surely, the right response is to destroy statues of Muhammad?
I don't think there are any, due to Muslims thinking there shouldn't be any visual representation of him.
I think Priti is dreadful, but if she goes it ends all doubt that Cummings is the de facto Prime Minister.
Let us hope she goes then. I look forward to the usual suspects on here defending Cummings the Dictator
I am not a fan of Patel because of her support for the Death Penalty. But the fact that she had the courage to stand up against the Cummings whitewash has certainly improved her reputation somewhat in my eyes.
It really would be a travesty for a Home Secretary to be dismissed for refusing to support a political advisor flouting the law.
The idea that people will suddenly decide to vote for Boris Johnson out of deference to the reputation of Churchill is a bizarre logical leap.
They won't but they will not support mindless vandalism and rioting. This will play into the governments hands unless labour come out strongly against and in favour of law and order
And in all this has Starmer submerged again to continue his letter writing?
Strongly against, we have labourites cheering this on. And saying ignore lockdown, this is much more important, and this is after all their outrage over Big Dom.
This particular Labourite is very much against the breaking of social distancing rules. But also against the presence of statues to slave traders on our streets.
And there are ways of having them removed / relocated that doesn't involve a mob. Putting it in a museum, explaining context seems perfectly reasonable. But again, the people of Bristol have been asked, and they said leave it. Instead a mob decided they know better.
The idea that people will suddenly decide to vote for Boris Johnson out of deference to the reputation of Churchill is a bizarre logical leap.
They won't but they will not support mindless vandalism and rioting. This will play into the governments hands unless labour come out strongly against and in favour of law and order
And in all this has Starmer submerged again to continue his letter writing?
This notion that disapproving of rampant criminality somehow logically entails support for the government of the day is an odd one. Did, for example, Douglas-Home benefit from the Great Train Robbery happening during his government's watch? If not, why not? It's the same difference.
Don't forget ladies and gentlemen, that fishing makes up 0.1% of our GDP
Throwing the “fisherpeople” under the bus in 1973 was perhaps where modern Euroscepticism started.
It may be insignificant, but it seems offends a sense of fair play. The EU would do well to cave on this in exchange for British compromise on level playing field etc.
Euroscepticism started well before 1973.
Elizabeth I and her 'I think it foul scorn that any Prince of Europe should dare invade the borders of my realm' is more like it.
That would be the start of English Euroscepticism presumably.
Amazing all the labourites cheering on criminal behaviour. Remember their outrage at Big Dom behaviour and.claims he would encourage the dangerous behaviour by the public.
Now we literally have labourites advocating forget covid (that think that disproportionately kills BAME individuals) and get into mobs to go smash shit up.
Lots of stuff used to be illegal that shouldn't have been. Some stuff is still illegal that shouldn't be. Sometimes doing what's right matters more than obeying the law. Plenty of stuff would never have changed if nobody had been willing to break the law. A statue of a man who became wealthy on the bloody murder of the slave trade should have been taken down years ago. If this was the only way to get it done, I am happy to applaud it.
So give me an apology for your role in the Irish Potato Famine.
Now.
Are you drinking already? That doesn't even make sense.
Irish Lives Matter
though not to you it seems
I would happily endorse the removal of any statues of British people who played any role in the Irish famine. It was a monstrous crime and another example of our problematic history. The Atlantic slave economy and the plantations at their core built on the British colonial experiment in Ireland, as you know, so the two issues are of course related. Since I am part Irish I'm certainly not going to deny that Irish lives matter, I'd like to see them mattering a whole lot more, in a united Ireland by consent. I'm just a bit confused as to why you are bringing it up since we weren't talking about it.
]Because you asking people to apolgise for evernts outside there experience is as logical as me holding you responsible for potato blight.
When did I ask anybody to apologise? I am just glad that a man who profited from the greatest crime in the history of humanity is no longer being honoured with a statue in one of our cities. I am genuinely surprised that is a controversial view, TBH.
You are genuinely surprised that a bunch of white extremists telling the people of Bristol what statues they can and can’t have because of their own particular views on how people should respond to race and racism is controversial?
It’s a view.
Yes it is surprising to me. The guy is a mass murderer, the statue should have been removed years ago. Like I say, the crowd I saw was mixed, but I don't know why the race of the people involved is important.
Wasn't the Prophet Mohammed a slave owner ?
Would you favour the closure of mosques because of it ?
Sure, why not?
I'm going to file pulling down a statue to a slave trader in the same kind of category as driving to Barnhard Castle during lockdown - sure its illegal technically but I honestly couldn't care less about it.
Its right not to have statues to slave traders in 21st century. Maybe the statue can be recovered and put in a museum somewhere but not out and about on display.
Surely, the right response is to destroy statues of Muhammad?
I have no qualms with that. Though are there any? I thought putting any up was heresy so there aren't any to pull down.
But yes I'd be quite happy to class him as a slaver. I'm quite happy to say his teachings on slavery were evil and don't belong in the 21st century. We need to move on from these medieval slavers.
Two years later and the second plaque that was supposed to have been put up to point out what a horrific monster the man was still ahdnt made it, leaving just the glowing original description.
The story of how people interfered to water down the criticism of Colston is... Interesting.
A very interesting piece from the Bristol Post. A couple of things stood out: 1. The Tory Councillor saying he would 'understand' if people vandalised or removed any plaque describing Colston's role in the slave trade - so much for the party of law and order; 2. Colston's apologists saying that any plaque should put 'both sides' - as if there are two sides to the question of whether it is ok to participate in enslaving and murdering people. Sorry, I don't shed any tears about this man's statue ending up in the harbour. I would rather he had been removed in a different way in accordance with the law, but it warmed my heart to see young people coming together to make a stand against racism and the whitewashing of our history.
I think Priti is dreadful, but if she goes it ends all doubt that Cummings is the de facto Prime Minister.
Let us hope she goes then. I look forward to the usual suspects on here defending Cummings the Dictator
I am not a fan of Patel because of her support for the Death Penalty. But the fact that she had the courage to stand up against the Cummings whitewash has certainly improved her reputation somewhat in my eyes.
It really would be a travesty for a Home Secretary to be dismissed for refusing to support a political advisor flouting the law.
This is the nub of it. Do we wipe out signs of the past because they are unpleasant?
How would we know what had happened?
Those claims are very surprising and frankly strike me as pretty implausible because almost no slaves went from Bristol to the West Indies. A very small number came the other way, but were usually brought across by their owners, not by slave traders.
The whole point about the African slave trade was that while financed from Bristol, Liverpool and London it was actually worked from Africa to the West Indies.
Said it before, its one thing having a nice day out protesting but once you pick up a stone and throw it (or damage property because you don't like it) you have to accept that the state will seek to take action.
The UK has other channels other than rioting and criminal damage to get change, the population is not actively repressed. The police therefore need to start closing the problem cases down and lifting people.
Don't forget ladies and gentlemen, that fishing makes up 0.1% of our GDP
Throwing the “fisherpeople” under the bus in 1973 was perhaps where modern Euroscepticism started.
It may be insignificant, but it seems offends a sense of fair play. The EU would do well to cave on this in exchange for British compromise on level playing field etc.
Euroscepticism started well before 1973.
Elizabeth I and her 'I think it foul scorn that any Prince of Europe should dare invade the borders of my realm' is more like it.
That would be the start of English Euroscepticism presumably.
This is the nub of it. Do we wipe out signs of the past because they are unpleasant?
How would we know what had happened?
I am not sure how having a statue of a slaver with a plaque that describes him as a thoroughly good chap and doesn't mention his role in the slave trade teaches anyone what happened.
This is the nub of it. Do we wipe out signs of the past because they are unpleasant?
How would we know what had happened?
I am not sure how having a statue of a slaver with a plaque that describes him as a thoroughly good chap and doesn't mention his role in the slave trade teaches anyone what happened.
Au contraire, lots of conclusions to be drawn from that.
This is the nub of it. Do we wipe out signs of the past because they are unpleasant?
How would we know what had happened?
Those claims are very surprising and frankly strike me as pretty implausible because almost no slaves went from Bristol to the West Indies. A very small number came the other way, but were usually brought across by their owners, not by slave traders.
The whole point about the African slave trade was that while financed from Bristol, Liverpool and London it was actually worked from Africa to the West Indies.
Do we know much about this poster?
AFAIK, Blackboy Hill was named after a pub which itself goes back to Stuart times.
British fishing communities have long claimed that the policy has left them with far too few fish to catch with notable inequities including that French fishermen have 84% of the cod quota in the English Channel.
Amazing all the labourites cheering on criminal behaviour. Remember their outrage at Big Dom behaviour and.claims he would encourage the dangerous behaviour by the public.
Now we literally have labourites advocating forget covid (that think that disproportionately kills BAME individuals) and get into mobs to go smash shit up.
Lots of stuff used to be illegal that shouldn't have been. Some stuff is still illegal that shouldn't be. Sometimes doing what's right matters more than obeying the law. Plenty of stuff would never have changed if nobody had been willing to break the law. A statue of a man who became wealthy on the bloody murder of the slave trade should have been taken down years ago. If this was the only way to get it done, I am happy to applaud it.
So give me an apology for your role in the Irish Potato Famine.
Now.
Are you drinking already? That doesn't even make sense.
Irish Lives Matter
though not to you it seems
I would happily endorse the removal of any statues of British people who played any role in the Irish famine. It was a monstrous crime and another example of our problematic history. The Atlantic slave economy and the plantations at their core built on the British colonial experiment in Ireland, as you know, so the two issues are of course related. Since I am part Irish I'm certainly not going to deny that Irish lives matter, I'd like to see them mattering a whole lot more, in a united Ireland by consent. I'm just a bit confused as to why you are bringing it up since we weren't talking about it.
]Because you asking people to apolgise for evernts outside there experience is as logical as me holding you responsible for potato blight.
When did I ask anybody to apologise? I am just glad that a man who profited from the greatest crime in the history of humanity is no longer being honoured with a statue in one of our cities. I am genuinely surprised that is a controversial view, TBH.
You are genuinely surprised that a bunch of white extremists telling the people of Bristol what statues they can and can’t have because of their own particular views on how people should respond to race and racism is controversial?
It’s a view.
Yes it is surprising to me. The guy is a mass murderer, the statue should have been removed years ago. Like I say, the crowd I saw was mixed, but I don't know why the race of the people involved is important.
Wasn't the Prophet Mohammed a slave owner ?
Would you favour the closure of mosques because of it ?
Sure, why not?
I'm going to file pulling down a statue to a slave trader in the same kind of category as driving to Barnhard Castle during lockdown - sure its illegal technically but I honestly couldn't care less about it.
Its right not to have statues to slave traders in 21st century. Maybe the statue can be recovered and put in a museum somewhere but not out and about on display.
Surely, the right response is to destroy statues of Muhammad?
I don't think there are any, due to Muslims thinking there shouldn't be any visual representation of him.
Is the one on the US Supreme Court building still there?
This is the nub of it. Do we wipe out signs of the past because they are unpleasant?
How would we know what had happened?
Those claims are very surprising and frankly strike me as pretty implausible because almost no slaves went from Bristol to the West Indies. A very small number came the other way, but were usually brought across by their owners, not by slave traders.
The whole point about the African slave trade was that while financed from Bristol, Liverpool and London it was actually worked from Africa to the West Indies.
Do we know much about this poster?
And there's a lot of legal decisions, notably Somersett's case 1772, saying that the common law doesn't recognize slavery and therefore slaves are freed by virtue of coming to England.
This is the nub of it. Do we wipe out signs of the past because they are unpleasant?
How would we know what had happened?
Those claims are very surprising and frankly strike me as pretty implausible because almost no slaves went from Bristol to the West Indies. A very small number came the other way, but were usually brought across by their owners, not by slave traders.
The whole point about the African slave trade was that while financed from Bristol, Liverpool and London it was actually worked from Africa to the West Indies.
Do we know much about this poster?
AFAIK, Blackboy Hill was named after a pub which itself goes back to Stuart times.
The upper part of the road is commonly known as Blackboy Hill, named after the Black Boy Inn which stood on the hill until 1874.[1] "Black Boy" was a common name for pubs after the Restoration. Charles II was commonly known as "the black boy" due to his black hair[2] and the pub sign on Blackboy Hill had, until very recently, a portrait of Charles II on it.
The origin of the name of Whiteladies Road appears to be a pub, known as the White Ladies Inn, shown on maps in 1746[3] and 1804.[4] There is a popular belief in Bristol that the naming of both Whiteladies Road and Blackboy Hill had connections with the slave trade, but this is probably an urban myth. Both names appear to be derived from pubs. A map of 1826 shows a house called White Ladies, and the road at least as far as Whiteladies Gate (near the present site of Clifton Down station) had been given its name by that time.[5]
This is the nub of it. Do we wipe out signs of the past because they are unpleasant?
How would we know what had happened?
Those claims are very surprising and frankly strike me as pretty implausible because almost no slaves went from Bristol to the West Indies. A very small number came the other way, but were usually brought across by their owners, not by slave traders.
The whole point about the African slave trade was that while financed from Bristol, Liverpool and London it was actually worked from Africa to the West Indies.
Do we know much about this poster?
It was called the triangular trade for this reason. You ran manufactured goods from the UK to the west coast of Africa to pay for slaves, who you then took west to the east indies (or southern US) where they could be sold. There you bought sugar, tobacco and cotton to bring back to the UK, where the cotton would be turned into cloth, continuing the cycle.
Maybe the occasional ship would run into trouble & return to Bristol for repairs in the days before slavery was outlawed in the UK?
This is the nub of it. Do we wipe out signs of the past because they are unpleasant?
How would we know what had happened?
I am not sure how having a statue of a slaver with a plaque that describes him as a thoroughly good chap and doesn't mention his role in the slave trade teaches anyone what happened.
Comments
I'm not sure what trench the apologists for the vandals would fight in.
But there was a large unease that we were turning our back on "our own" in the Commonwealth esp. Aus Can and you Kiwis.
It only took a couple of nights for the Coalition to wake up and get a grip on law & order nationwide, and start bringing looters to justice, in 2011.
Boris called Cameron a girly swot. He clearly thinks that hard work is for suckers.
I well remember going from boat to boat across the harbours of Lossiemouth and Eyemouth with the markets full of wonderful fish and all that came to an end under the EU
The EU will not be forgiven by British Fishermen.
Why do you think Boris is fighting for them and willing to walk away
This is low-level law breaking that I honestly couldn't care less about. Hurting public/Police/horses etc matters far more.
Who would have thought that any politician could possibly rally to the cause of slavery in 2020?
There is even some evidence that the Turbina demonstration was a put up job to get the politicians to cough up money to fund the first turbine powered ships.
And in all this has Starmer submerged again to continue his letter writing?
If there was a statue to Jimmy Saville put up years ago due to his philanthropy would you be ok with taking that down due to what's come to light since?
Same with slavers. The evilness of what they did wasn't appreciated in the past, it is now. Philanthropy doesn't make up for that.
We can learn about it in history without celebrating it anymore.
It's the west coast inshore fisherment who really are going to catch it in the neck with Brexit.
https://twitter.com/sajidjavid/status/1269669492424146945?s=21
From wiki for ease but easily checkable elsewhere.
The first rules were created in 1970. The original six Common Market members realised that four countries applying to join the Common Market at that time (Britain, Ireland, Denmark including Greenland, and Norway) would control the richest fishing grounds in the world. The original six therefore drew up Council Regulation 2141/70 giving all Members equal access to all fishing waters, even though the Treaty of Rome did not explicitly include fisheries in its agriculture chapter. This was adopted on the morning of 30 June 1970, a few hours before the applications to join were officially received. This ensured that the regulations became part of the acquis communautaire before the new members joined, obliging them to accept the regulation. In its accession negotiations, the UK at first refused to accept the rules but by the end of 1971 the UK gave way and signed the Accession Treaty on 22 January 1972, thereby bringing into the CFP joint management an estimated four fifths of all the fish off Western Europe. Norway decided not to join. Greenland left the EC in 1985, after having gained partial independence from Denmark in 1979.
It is just wrong so I have corrected it back on principle
https://www.channel4.com/news/we-have-a-statue-of-someone-who-made-their-money-by-throwing-our-people-into-water-and-now-hes-on-the-bottom-of-the-water-marvin-rees-elected-mayor-of-bristol
https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/m6-re-opens-after-hour-18379178
It really would be a travesty for a Home Secretary to be dismissed for refusing to support a political advisor flouting the law.
I remember the fury amongst the Scottish Fishermen so many of whom were family members. Indeed it festered for years and still does
https://twitter.com/tonys2009/status/1269657457678303239
https://twitter.com/tonys2009/status/1269658407411363842
This is the nub of it. Do we wipe out signs of the past because they are unpleasant?
How would we know what had happened?
https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1269716681376530433?s=20
https://twitter.com/Michael_Heaver/status/1269715786383458319?s=20
But yes I'd be quite happy to class him as a slaver. I'm quite happy to say his teachings on slavery were evil and don't belong in the 21st century. We need to move on from these medieval slavers.
https://twitter.com/mattuthompson/status/1269705281098915840?s=20
1. The Tory Councillor saying he would 'understand' if people vandalised or removed any plaque describing Colston's role in the slave trade - so much for the party of law and order;
2. Colston's apologists saying that any plaque should put 'both sides' - as if there are two sides to the question of whether it is ok to participate in enslaving and murdering people.
Sorry, I don't shed any tears about this man's statue ending up in the harbour. I would rather he had been removed in a different way in accordance with the law, but it warmed my heart to see young people coming together to make a stand against racism and the whitewashing of our history.
The whole point about the African slave trade was that while financed from Bristol, Liverpool and London it was actually worked from Africa to the West Indies.
Do we know much about this poster?
The UK has other channels other than rioting and criminal damage to get change, the population is not actively repressed. The police therefore need to start closing the problem cases down and lifting people.
It shouldn't have taken protestors to get this down.
Did not address the wider issues however.
https://twitter.com/CrimeLdn/status/1269718293562249221?s=19
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jun/07/brexit-uk-fears-eu-chief-negotiator-has-lost-grip-on-fishing-talks
The off piste quarantine policy etc won't have impressed.
The upper part of the road is commonly known as Blackboy Hill, named after the Black Boy Inn which stood on the hill until 1874.[1] "Black Boy" was a common name for pubs after the Restoration. Charles II was commonly known as "the black boy" due to his black hair[2] and the pub sign on Blackboy Hill had, until very recently, a portrait of Charles II on it.
The origin of the name of Whiteladies Road appears to be a pub, known as the White Ladies Inn, shown on maps in 1746[3] and 1804.[4] There is a popular belief in Bristol that the naming of both Whiteladies Road and Blackboy Hill had connections with the slave trade, but this is probably an urban myth. Both names appear to be derived from pubs. A map of 1826 shows a house called White Ladies, and the road at least as far as Whiteladies Gate (near the present site of Clifton Down station) had been given its name by that time.[5]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whiteladies_Road
Maybe the occasional ship would run into trouble & return to Bristol for repairs in the days before slavery was outlawed in the UK?
https://twitter.com/Noel_Phillips/status/1269720071347359744?s=19