Amazing all the labourites cheering on criminal behaviour. Remember their outrage at Big Dom behaviour and.claims he would encourage the dangerous behaviour by the public.
Now we literally have labourites advocating forget covid (that think that disproportionately kills BAME individuals) and get into mobs to go smash shit up.
Lots of stuff used to be illegal that shouldn't have been. Some stuff is still illegal that shouldn't be. Sometimes doing what's right matters more than obeying the law. Plenty of stuff would never have changed if nobody had been willing to break the law. A statue of a man who became wealthy on the bloody murder of the slave trade should have been taken down years ago. If this was the only way to get it done, I am happy to applaud it.
So give me an apology for your role in the Irish Potato Famine.
Now.
Are you drinking already? That doesn't even make sense.
You can add one for the highland clearances
The Highland clearances were done by Lowland Scots landlords to Highland Scots peasants.
On topic, Covid-19 is widening the class divide. The middle classes are eating better, more local food. Those who struggle to make ends meet are seeing their choices deteriorate. The government doesn’t seem to be doing any thinking about this at all.
Food poverty is more of a state of mind than wealth - its not difficult to eat healthily on a low budget if that is within your abilities and desire. The grotty takeaways which abound in deprived areas are not a cheap source of food.
But you could add that the working class are less able to work from home which both puts them at more risk and means that quarantine restrictions on international travel will affect them more.
Amazing all the labourites cheering on criminal behaviour. Remember their outrage at Big Dom behaviour and.claims he would encourage the dangerous behaviour by the public.
Now we literally have labourites advocating forget covid (that think that disproportionately kills BAME individuals) and get into mobs to go smash shit up.
Lots of stuff used to be illegal that shouldn't have been. Some stuff is still illegal that shouldn't be. Sometimes doing what's right matters more than obeying the law. Plenty of stuff would never have changed if nobody had been willing to break the law. A statue of a man who became wealthy on the bloody murder of the slave trade should have been taken down years ago. If this was the only way to get it done, I am happy to applaud it.
So give me an apology for your role in the Irish Potato Famine.
Now.
Are you drinking already? That doesn't even make sense.
Irish Lives Matter
though not to you it seems
I would happily endorse the removal of any statues of British people who played any role in the Irish famine. It was a monstrous crime and another example of our problematic history. The Atlantic slave economy and the plantations at their core built on the British colonial experiment in Ireland, as you know, so the two issues are of course related. Since I am part Irish I'm certainly not going to deny that Irish lives matter, I'd like to see them mattering a whole lot more, in a united Ireland by consent. I'm just a bit confused as to why you are bringing it up since we weren't talking about it.
]Because you asking people to apolgise for evernts outside there experience is as logical as me holding you responsible for potato blight.
When did I ask anybody to apologise? I am just glad that a man who profited from the greatest crime in the history of humanity is no longer being honoured with a statue in one of our cities. I am genuinely surprised that is a controversial view, TBH.
You are genuinely surprised that a bunch of white extremists telling the people of Bristol what statues they can and can’t have because of their own particular views on how people should respond to race and racism is controversial?
On topic, Covid-19 is widening the class divide. The middle classes are eating better, more local food. Those who struggle to make ends meet are seeing their choices deteriorate. The government doesn’t seem to be doing any thinking about this at all.
It is difficult to see what the government can do.
Sixty of our finest British pounds gets one a handful of excellent produce from an artisan butchers. The same items, but generally tasteless, brine-injected, mechanically recovered shite from a well known supermarket will be yours for less than twenty quid.
Regarding Alastair's thread, I think it is more class than racism.
The middle and upper classes do well, and a lot of BAME aren't in those classes.
My grandfather turned up in this country from a country far away and he was instantly a member of the middle class.
Had he have been a manual worker working in the mills I'm not sure I'd have had the same life opportunities that I've enjoyed.
It's also a matter of education and attitudes to education.
The extreme example of this can be seen in the US. For example, very poor Chinese immigrants in New York have done very well in getting into the selective schools run by the state.
So well, in fact that the Mayor of New York has discussed a quota system to "rebalance the intake" -
In the UK at least I'm not sure that's true. It's a while since I've seen research in this area, but as far as I was aware education was taken more seriously in working class black families when compared with working class white families.
The differences tended to be from attitudes outside the family - in particular from schools.
IIRC correctly it became clearer with further segmentation of groups.
"Black": is not a homogeneous culture - Ghanian culture is very different to Afro-Caribbean for example.
I'd be interested to see that, as the research I saw was specifically for the Afro-Carribbean population. This was 20 years ago though.
I wouldn't expect there to be huge differences with people from Ghana - although would more people from West Africa be first generation immigrants from middle class families? That was my experience through work, but no idea if it's true or just a stereotype.
Amazing all the labourites cheering on criminal behaviour. Remember their outrage at Big Dom behaviour and.claims he would encourage the dangerous behaviour by the public.
Now we literally have labourites advocating forget covid (that think that disproportionately kills BAME individuals) and get into mobs to go smash shit up.
Lots of stuff used to be illegal that shouldn't have been. Some stuff is still illegal that shouldn't be. Sometimes doing what's right matters more than obeying the law. Plenty of stuff would never have changed if nobody had been willing to break the law. A statue of a man who became wealthy on the bloody murder of the slave trade should have been taken down years ago. If this was the only way to get it done, I am happy to applaud it.
So give me an apology for your role in the Irish Potato Famine.
Now.
Are you drinking already? That doesn't even make sense.
You can add one for the highland clearances
The Highland clearances were done by Lowland Scots landlords to Highland Scots peasants.
Nothing gets my goat more than the ludicrous historical revisionism that states that everyone was absolutely totally fine with slavery whilst slavery was happening.
In reality there was massive pressure against it. Be it the British Empire or the fledgling United States.
When you look at contemporary letters even a great number of the fucking slave owners knew what they were doing was morally reprehensible.
Well, it wasn't until the late Eighteenth Century that the abolitionist movement really started to get going, after about 150 years of slave trading, but within a few decades the British slave trade was history.
Why the sudden swing in British opinion?
1) The Enlightentment, and in particular the radical ideas of the French and American revolutions, as well as very widely read British radicals like Thomas Paine.
2) The widespread evangelical revival that swept Britain in late Eighteenth century.
3) The Industrial Revolution meaning manufactured products rather than primary commodities were where the money was.
4) The Haitian revolution. Bloody, barbaric and complex, but we lost more than 30 000 troops at the height of the Napoleaonic wars in a disastrous campaign to re-enslave the Haitian Jacobites. Once there was a free Black state in near proximity to Jamaica and the other sugar islands, the security issues for slaveholders became massive.
So a conjunction of ideas, economics and security meant that by abolition in 1832 slaveowners were glad to be bought out by the government. That's correct, we paid compensation to the owners, not to the enslaved, and even forced them into indentured servant status afterwards.
On Topic: Boris and the Brexit Brigade will sign any deal the US puts in front of them and then lie through their teeth about it.
Because what choices do they have?
Not to bother if the deal doesn't suit them.
No trade deals will be done at all, except in circumstances where they can plausibly be sold to the Tories' own voters. It's exactly the same logic as applies to the negotiations with the EU
The full story of the Nimrod MRA4 would also be good.
As would the history of UK attempts at AEW&C radar planes. Hint - apart from an early mashup using a Wellington in WWII, every single attempt was an abject failure. Yes, I am aware of the smaller projects that worked such as Gannets and Sea Kings - but all the big attempts were a complete failure.
Regarding Alastair's thread, I think it is more class than racism.
The middle and upper classes do well, and a lot of BAME aren't in those classes.
My grandfather turned up in this country from a country far away and he was instantly a member of the middle class.
Had he have been a manual worker working in the mills I'm not sure I'd have had the same life opportunities that I've enjoyed.
It's also a matter of education and attitudes to education.
The extreme example of this can be seen in the US. For example, very poor Chinese immigrants in New York have done very well in getting into the selective schools run by the state.
So well, in fact that the Mayor of New York has discussed a quota system to "rebalance the intake" -
In the UK at least I'm not sure that's true. It's a while since I've seen research in this area, but as far as I was aware education was taken more seriously in working class black families when compared with working class white families.
The differences tended to be from attitudes outside the family - in particular from schools.
IIRC correctly it became clearer with further segmentation of groups.
"Black": is not a homogeneous culture - Ghanian culture is very different to Afro-Caribbean for example.
I'd be interested to see that, as the research I saw was specifically for the Afro-Carribbean population. This was 20 years ago though.
I wouldn't expect there to be huge differences with people from Ghana - although would more people from West Africa be first generation immigrants from middle class families? That was my experience through work, but no idea if it's true or just a stereotype.
Black African migrants are often middle class and highly educated. In the USA, Nigerians are better educated, and earning more than East Asian migrants. I havent seen similar figures for the UK, but would expect similar.
Amazing all the labourites cheering on criminal behaviour. Remember their outrage at Big Dom behaviour and.claims he would encourage the dangerous behaviour by the public.
Now we literally have labourites advocating forget covid (that think that disproportionately kills BAME individuals) and get into mobs to go smash shit up.
Lots of stuff used to be illegal that shouldn't have been. Some stuff is still illegal that shouldn't be. Sometimes doing what's right matters more than obeying the law. Plenty of stuff would never have changed if nobody had been willing to break the law. A statue of a man who became wealthy on the bloody murder of the slave trade should have been taken down years ago. If this was the only way to get it done, I am happy to applaud it.
So give me an apology for your role in the Irish Potato Famine.
Now.
Are you drinking already? That doesn't even make sense.
Irish Lives Matter
though not to you it seems
I would happily endorse the removal of any statues of British people who played any role in the Irish famine. It was a monstrous crime and another example of our problematic history. The Atlantic slave economy and the plantations at their core built on the British colonial experiment in Ireland, as you know, so the two issues are of course related. Since I am part Irish I'm certainly not going to deny that Irish lives matter, I'd like to see them mattering a whole lot more, in a united Ireland by consent. I'm just a bit confused as to why you are bringing it up since we weren't talking about it.
So just to be clear - you want to tear down every statue of Gladstone?
I don't know a whole lot about Gladstone - wasn't he the one who used to hang around with prostitutes? Was he as unambiguously responsible for the famine as a man who ran the company that ran the slave trade was responsible for the slave trade? Did Gladstone do enough other good stuff to in any way balance his role in the famine? I don't know enough about this subject to have a strong view to be honest, you should ask Alenbrooke to enlighten you, the Irish angle was his non sequitur not mine.
I seem to be the only person on here, broadly proud of the “Empire” (without which my home country would not exist), broadly sympathetic to BLM, a bit disconcerted to see a Grade II statue topple, but with an intemperate loathing of Trump and Johnson.
I am “centrist Dad”.
New Zealand was in theory settled by agreement*, and Maori rights protected in law from the beginning, so a bit different to other colonies.
* yes, I know the treaty has been disputed from the beginning, and that there were three Maori wars as well as continuing land disputes etc.
I think the modern tendency in this country to say the Empire was unredeemingly awful is regrettable.
It was what it was, and once it became both militarily and morally unsustainable, it was wound up pretty quickly.
I literally would not exist without the Empire, and although NZ is perhaps at one end of the spectrum when it comes to post-imperial states (and not without its own flaws), I tend to think the world is a better place with NZ in it.
There are still Empires. China and the USA are both Empires. If we accept that, we can see that not all Empires are equal, and that perhaps Empires are an unavoidable element of human history.
I wouldn't disagree with much of that. However since many of this country's highest accolades for achievement are literally centred on the British Empire, I think we've some way to go before reaching a plateau of rational and objective analysis of imperialism and our part in it.
Nothing gets my goat more than the ludicrous historical revisionism that states that everyone was absolutely totally fine with slavery whilst slavery was happening.
In reality there was massive pressure against it. Be it the British Empire or the fledgling United States.
When you look at contemporary letters even a great number of the fucking slave owners knew what they were doing was morally reprehensible.
Well, it wasn't until the late Eighteenth Century that the abolitionist movement really started to get going, after about 150 years of slave trading, but within a few decades the British slave trade was history.
Why the sudden swing in British opinion?
1) The Enlightentment, and in particular the radical ideas of the French and American revolutions, as well as very widely read British radicals like Thomas Paine.
2) The widespread evangelical revival that swept Britain in late Eighteenth century.
3) The Industrial Revolution meaning manufactured products rather than primary commodities were where the money was.
4) The Haitian revolution. Bloody, barbaric and complex, but we lost more than 30 000 troops at the height of the Napoleaonic wars in a disastrous campaign to re-enslave the Haitian Jacobites. Once there was a free Black state in near proximity to Jamaica and the other sugar islands, the security issues for slaveholders became massive.
So a conjunction of ideas, economics and security meant that by abolition in 1832 slaveowners were glad to be bought out by the government. That's correct, we paid compensation to the owners, not to the enslaved, and even forced them into indentured servant status afterwards.
We had already outlawed slavery within the bounds of the British Isles some time before.
So a conjunction of ideas, economics and security meant that by abolition in 1832 slaveowners were glad to be bought out by the government. That's correct, we paid compensation to the owners, not to the enslaved, and even forced them into indentured servant status afterwards.
Actually it was 1833, and it wasn’t put into full effect until 1837 (even that was a shortening on the original timeframe as it was meant to run until 1840).
On Topic: Boris and the Brexit Brigade will sign any deal the US puts in front of them and then lie through their teeth about it.
Because what choices do they have?
Not to bother if the deal doesn't suit them.
No trade deals will be done at all, except in circumstances where they can plausibly be sold to the Tories' own voters. It's exactly the same logic as applies to the negotiations with the EU
Except it will not work that way. Boris & the Brexiteers need to have a success to wave around, to show how we are free to sign trade deals.
If they cannot sign Trade Deals after Brexiting then what the hell was the whole point of the thing?
Regarding @Cyclefree's thread, every word rings with truth. Barring possibly our spiritual health, there is nothing more important than the physical health of our citizens - economic considerations come second.
Amazing all the labourites cheering on criminal behaviour. Remember their outrage at Big Dom behaviour and.claims he would encourage the dangerous behaviour by the public.
Now we literally have labourites advocating forget covid (that think that disproportionately kills BAME individuals) and get into mobs to go smash shit up.
Lots of stuff used to be illegal that shouldn't have been. Some stuff is still illegal that shouldn't be. Sometimes doing what's right matters more than obeying the law. Plenty of stuff would never have changed if nobody had been willing to break the law. A statue of a man who became wealthy on the bloody murder of the slave trade should have been taken down years ago. If this was the only way to get it done, I am happy to applaud it.
So give me an apology for your role in the Irish Potato Famine.
Now.
Are you drinking already? That doesn't even make sense.
Irish Lives Matter
though not to you it seems
I would happily endorse the removal of any statues of British people who played any role in the Irish famine. It was a monstrous crime and another example of our problematic history. The Atlantic slave economy and the plantations at their core built on the British colonial experiment in Ireland, as you know, so the two issues are of course related. Since I am part Irish I'm certainly not going to deny that Irish lives matter, I'd like to see them mattering a whole lot more, in a united Ireland by consent. I'm just a bit confused as to why you are bringing it up since we weren't talking about it.
So just to be clear - you want to tear down every statue of Gladstone?
I don't know a whole lot about Gladstone - wasn't he the one who used to hang around with prostitutes? Was he as unambiguously responsible for the famine as a man who ran the company that ran the slave trade was responsible for the slave trade? Did Gladstone do enough other good stuff to in any way balance his role in the famine? I don't know enough about this subject to have a strong view to be honest, you should ask Alenbrooke to enlighten you, the Irish angle was his non sequitur not mine.
He was President of the Board of Trade, responsible for food supplies.
The issue with Colston is that he endowed a huge number of public works and buildings in Bristol - paid for with money from slaving. Most of them are still in place. Should they be demolished? Because ultimately, pulling down a statue and yet leaving the practical effects of his life and crimes in place renders the whole thing more pointless than a broken pencil. Worse, it arguably helps airbrush the distinctly dubious foundations of those things from history.
Regarding Alastair's thread, I think it is more class than racism.
The middle and upper classes do well, and a lot of BAME aren't in those classes.
My grandfather turned up in this country from a country far away and he was instantly a member of the middle class.
Had he have been a manual worker working in the mills I'm not sure I'd have had the same life opportunities that I've enjoyed.
It's also a matter of education and attitudes to education.
The extreme example of this can be seen in the US. For example, very poor Chinese immigrants in New York have done very well in getting into the selective schools run by the state.
So well, in fact that the Mayor of New York has discussed a quota system to "rebalance the intake" -
In the UK at least I'm not sure that's true. It's a while since I've seen research in this area, but as far as I was aware education was taken more seriously in working class black families when compared with working class white families.
The differences tended to be from attitudes outside the family - in particular from schools.
IIRC correctly it became clearer with further segmentation of groups.
"Black": is not a homogeneous culture - Ghanian culture is very different to Afro-Caribbean for example.
I'd be interested to see that, as the research I saw was specifically for the Afro-Carribbean population. This was 20 years ago though.
I wouldn't expect there to be huge differences with people from Ghana - although would more people from West Africa be first generation immigrants from middle class families? That was my experience through work, but no idea if it's true or just a stereotype.
Having actually lived with Ghanian people - the difference in culture is similar to the difference between, say, Finland and Italy.
The difference in outcomes for all the indicators is large as well. Much of the progress made for the "black" population is from the more recent immigrants. The poor parts of the Afro-Carribbean community are still being left behind...
Nothing gets my goat more than the ludicrous historical revisionism that states that everyone was absolutely totally fine with slavery whilst slavery was happening.
In reality there was massive pressure against it. Be it the British Empire or the fledgling United States.
When you look at contemporary letters even a great number of the fucking slave owners knew what they were doing was morally reprehensible.
Well, it wasn't until the late Eighteenth Century that the abolitionist movement really started to get going, after about 150 years of slave trading, but within a few decades the British slave trade was history.
Why the sudden swing in British opinion?
1) The Enlightentment, and in particular the radical ideas of the French and American revolutions, as well as very widely read British radicals like Thomas Paine.
2) The widespread evangelical revival that swept Britain in late Eighteenth century.
3) The Industrial Revolution meaning manufactured products rather than primary commodities were where the money was.
4) The Haitian revolution. Bloody, barbaric and complex, but we lost more than 30 000 troops at the height of the Napoleaonic wars in a disastrous campaign to re-enslave the Haitian Jacobites. Once there was a free Black state in near proximity to Jamaica and the other sugar islands, the security issues for slaveholders became massive.
So a conjunction of ideas, economics and security meant that by abolition in 1832 slaveowners were glad to be bought out by the government. That's correct, we paid compensation to the owners, not to the enslaved, and even forced them into indentured servant status afterwards.
Wikipedia suggests the British were fighting with the slaves, against the French, in that war.
Edit: Sorry, you are correct, the conflict seemed to involve many temporary alliances.
Amazing all the labourites cheering on criminal behaviour. Remember their outrage at Big Dom behaviour and.claims he would encourage the dangerous behaviour by the public.
Now we literally have labourites advocating forget covid (that think that disproportionately kills BAME individuals) and get into mobs to go smash shit up.
Lots of stuff used to be illegal that shouldn't have been. Some stuff is still illegal that shouldn't be. Sometimes doing what's right matters more than obeying the law. Plenty of stuff would never have changed if nobody had been willing to break the law. A statue of a man who became wealthy on the bloody murder of the slave trade should have been taken down years ago. If this was the only way to get it done, I am happy to applaud it.
So give me an apology for your role in the Irish Potato Famine.
Now.
Are you drinking already? That doesn't even make sense.
Irish Lives Matter
though not to you it seems
I would happily endorse the removal of any statues of British people who played any role in the Irish famine. It was a monstrous crime and another example of our problematic history. The Atlantic slave economy and the plantations at their core built on the British colonial experiment in Ireland, as you know, so the two issues are of course related. Since I am part Irish I'm certainly not going to deny that Irish lives matter, I'd like to see them mattering a whole lot more, in a united Ireland by consent. I'm just a bit confused as to why you are bringing it up since we weren't talking about it.
]Because you asking people to apolgise for evernts outside there experience is as logical as me holding you responsible for potato blight.
When did I ask anybody to apologise? I am just glad that a man who profited from the greatest crime in the history of humanity is no longer being honoured with a statue in one of our cities. I am genuinely surprised that is a controversial view, TBH.
You are genuinely surprised that a bunch of white extremists telling the people of Bristol what statues they can and can’t have because of their own particular views on how people should respond to race and racism is controversial?
It’s a view.
Yes it is surprising to me. The guy is a mass murderer, the statue should have been removed years ago. Like I say, the crowd I saw was mixed, but I don't know why the race of the people involved is important.
Amazing all the labourites cheering on criminal behaviour. Remember their outrage at Big Dom behaviour and.claims he would encourage the dangerous behaviour by the public.
Now we literally have labourites advocating forget covid (that think that disproportionately kills BAME individuals) and get into mobs to go smash shit up.
Lots of stuff used to be illegal that shouldn't have been. Some stuff is still illegal that shouldn't be. Sometimes doing what's right matters more than obeying the law. Plenty of stuff would never have changed if nobody had been willing to break the law. A statue of a man who became wealthy on the bloody murder of the slave trade should have been taken down years ago. If this was the only way to get it done, I am happy to applaud it.
So give me an apology for your role in the Irish Potato Famine.
Now.
Are you drinking already? That doesn't even make sense.
Irish Lives Matter
though not to you it seems
I would happily endorse the removal of any statues of British people who played any role in the Irish famine. It was a monstrous crime and another example of our problematic history. The Atlantic slave economy and the plantations at their core built on the British colonial experiment in Ireland, as you know, so the two issues are of course related. Since I am part Irish I'm certainly not going to deny that Irish lives matter, I'd like to see them mattering a whole lot more, in a united Ireland by consent. I'm just a bit confused as to why you are bringing it up since we weren't talking about it.
]Because you asking people to apolgise for evernts outside there experience is as logical as me holding you responsible for potato blight.
When did I ask anybody to apologise? I am just glad that a man who profited from the greatest crime in the history of humanity is no longer being honoured with a statue in one of our cities. I am genuinely surprised that is a controversial view, TBH.
I can see both sides on the statue debates and dont really have a strong view. To play devils advocate and introduce a new line of thought:
Were the Taliban wrong to take destroy the Buddhas of Bamyan statues? In their world view the statues represented evil and should therefore be destroyed?
What is the principle that makes them wrong and taking down western statues right? Is it just that their world view itself is wrong (which I clearly think it is, but it makes the argument pretty flimsy).
On Topic: Boris and the Brexit Brigade will sign any deal the US puts in front of them and then lie through their teeth about it.
Because what choices do they have?
Not to bother if the deal doesn't suit them.
No trade deals will be done at all, except in circumstances where they can plausibly be sold to the Tories' own voters. It's exactly the same logic as applies to the negotiations with the EU
Except it will not work that way. Boris & the Brexiteers need to have a success to wave around, to show how we are free to sign trade deals.
If they cannot sign Trade Deals after Brexiting then what the hell was the whole point of the thing?
to change the direction of UK politics
after 4 years of politics Im amazed you dont get this
On Topic: Boris and the Brexit Brigade will sign any deal the US puts in front of them and then lie through their teeth about it.
Because what choices do they have?
Not to bother if the deal doesn't suit them.
No trade deals will be done at all, except in circumstances where they can plausibly be sold to the Tories' own voters. It's exactly the same logic as applies to the negotiations with the EU
Except it will not work that way. Boris & the Brexiteers need to have a success to wave around, to show how we are free to sign trade deals.
If they cannot sign Trade Deals after Brexiting then what the hell was the whole point of the thing?
Sovereignty! We have regained our Sovereign nation status (which in reality we never really lost, but let's not be clouded by fact). Hallelujah!
So a conjunction of ideas, economics and security meant that by abolition in 1832 slaveowners were glad to be bought out by the government. That's correct, we paid compensation to the owners, not to the enslaved, and even forced them into indentured servant status afterwards.
Actually it was 1833, and it wasn’t put into full effect until 1837 (even that was a shortening on the original timeframe as it was meant to run until 1840).
I am sure that your dates are correct, but would you agree with my overall thrust of ideas?
Statues aren't about adoration, who walks past a statue saying I adore that person? Loopy Twitter. What if I don't adore a rioter - should I rip down their house.
"Brave" for a Conservative government to take on the combined might of the farming and animal welfare lobbies. But I think the Johnson clique is too much invested in a US FTA not to deliver the chlorinated chicken. For ideological reasons and because they are heavily bribedfunded by US interests
Amazing all the labourites cheering on criminal behaviour. Remember their outrage at Big Dom behaviour and.claims he would encourage the dangerous behaviour by the public.
Now we literally have labourites advocating forget covid (that think that disproportionately kills BAME individuals) and get into mobs to go smash shit up.
Lots of stuff used to be illegal that shouldn't have been. Some stuff is still illegal that shouldn't be. Sometimes doing what's right matters more than obeying the law. Plenty of stuff would never have changed if nobody had been willing to break the law. A statue of a man who became wealthy on the bloody murder of the slave trade should have been taken down years ago. If this was the only way to get it done, I am happy to applaud it.
So give me an apology for your role in the Irish Potato Famine.
Now.
Are you drinking already? That doesn't even make sense.
Irish Lives Matter
though not to you it seems
I would happily endorse the removal of any statues of British people who played any role in the Irish famine. It was a monstrous crime and another example of our problematic history. The Atlantic slave economy and the plantations at their core built on the British colonial experiment in Ireland, as you know, so the two issues are of course related. Since I am part Irish I'm certainly not going to deny that Irish lives matter, I'd like to see them mattering a whole lot more, in a united Ireland by consent. I'm just a bit confused as to why you are bringing it up since we weren't talking about it.
]Because you asking people to apolgise for evernts outside there experience is as logical as me holding you responsible for potato blight.
When did I ask anybody to apologise? I am just glad that a man who profited from the greatest crime in the history of humanity is no longer being honoured with a statue in one of our cities. I am genuinely surprised that is a controversial view, TBH.
You are genuinely surprised that a bunch of white extremists telling the people of Bristol what statues they can and can’t have because of their own particular views on how people should respond to race and racism is controversial?
It’s a view.
Yes it is surprising to me. The guy is a mass murderer, the statue should have been removed years ago. Like I say, the crowd I saw was mixed, but I don't know why the race of the people involved is important.
As I have said three times, because most black people in Bristol actually wanted to keep it for a number of good reasons that had nothing to do with admiration of Colston. And that has been overruled by a bunch of whites who think they know better than they do.
And I am getting sick of trying to get this simple message across. This crowd are not heroes. They are not legitimate protestors. THey are certainly not protesting about the murder of George Floyd. They are violent, racist and anti-democratic thugs and scum.
Amazing all the labourites cheering on criminal behaviour. Remember their outrage at Big Dom behaviour and.claims he would encourage the dangerous behaviour by the public.
Now we literally have labourites advocating forget covid (that think that disproportionately kills BAME individuals) and get into mobs to go smash shit up.
Lots of stuff used to be illegal that shouldn't have been. Some stuff is still illegal that shouldn't be. Sometimes doing what's right matters more than obeying the law. Plenty of stuff would never have changed if nobody had been willing to break the law. A statue of a man who became wealthy on the bloody murder of the slave trade should have been taken down years ago. If this was the only way to get it done, I am happy to applaud it.
So give me an apology for your role in the Irish Potato Famine.
Now.
Are you drinking already? That doesn't even make sense.
Irish Lives Matter
though not to you it seems
I would happily endorse the removal of any statues of British people who played any role in the Irish famine. It was a monstrous crime and another example of our problematic history. The Atlantic slave economy and the plantations at their core built on the British colonial experiment in Ireland, as you know, so the two issues are of course related. Since I am part Irish I'm certainly not going to deny that Irish lives matter, I'd like to see them mattering a whole lot more, in a united Ireland by consent. I'm just a bit confused as to why you are bringing it up since we weren't talking about it.
]Because you asking people to apolgise for evernts outside there experience is as logical as me holding you responsible for potato blight.
When did I ask anybody to apologise? I am just glad that a man who profited from the greatest crime in the history of humanity is no longer being honoured with a statue in one of our cities. I am genuinely surprised that is a controversial view, TBH.
You are genuinely surprised that a bunch of white extremists telling the people of Bristol what statues they can and can’t have because of their own particular views on how people should respond to race and racism is controversial?
It’s a view.
Yes it is surprising to me. The guy is a mass murderer, the statue should have been removed years ago. Like I say, the crowd I saw was mixed, but I don't know why the race of the people involved is important.
Wasn't the Prophet Mohammed a slave owner ?
Would you favour the closure of mosques because of it ?
On Topic: Boris and the Brexit Brigade will sign any deal the US puts in front of them and then lie through their teeth about it.
Because what choices do they have?
Not to bother if the deal doesn't suit them.
No trade deals will be done at all, except in circumstances where they can plausibly be sold to the Tories' own voters. It's exactly the same logic as applies to the negotiations with the EU
Except it will not work that way. Boris & the Brexiteers need to have a success to wave around, to show how we are free to sign trade deals.
If they cannot sign Trade Deals after Brexiting then what the hell was the whole point of the thing?
Sovereignty! We have regained our Sovereign nation status (which in reality we never really lost, but let's not be clouded by fact). Hallelujah!
Amazing all the labourites cheering on criminal behaviour. Remember their outrage at Big Dom behaviour and.claims he would encourage the dangerous behaviour by the public.
Now we literally have labourites advocating forget covid (that think that disproportionately kills BAME individuals) and get into mobs to go smash shit up.
Lots of stuff used to be illegal that shouldn't have been. Some stuff is still illegal that shouldn't be. Sometimes doing what's right matters more than obeying the law. Plenty of stuff would never have changed if nobody had been willing to break the law. A statue of a man who became wealthy on the bloody murder of the slave trade should have been taken down years ago. If this was the only way to get it done, I am happy to applaud it.
So give me an apology for your role in the Irish Potato Famine.
Now.
Are you drinking already? That doesn't even make sense.
Irish Lives Matter
though not to you it seems
I would happily endorse the removal of any statues of British people who played any role in the Irish famine. It was a monstrous crime and another example of our problematic history. The Atlantic slave economy and the plantations at their core built on the British colonial experiment in Ireland, as you know, so the two issues are of course related. Since I am part Irish I'm certainly not going to deny that Irish lives matter, I'd like to see them mattering a whole lot more, in a united Ireland by consent. I'm just a bit confused as to why you are bringing it up since we weren't talking about it.
]Because you asking people to apolgise for evernts outside there experience is as logical as me holding you responsible for potato blight.
When did I ask anybody to apologise? I am just glad that a man who profited from the greatest crime in the history of humanity is no longer being honoured with a statue in one of our cities. I am genuinely surprised that is a controversial view, TBH.
You are genuinely surprised that a bunch of white extremists telling the people of Bristol what statues they can and can’t have because of their own particular views on how people should respond to race and racism is controversial?
It’s a view.
Yes it is surprising to me. The guy is a mass murderer, the statue should have been removed years ago. Like I say, the crowd I saw was mixed, but I don't know why the race of the people involved is important.
As I have said three times, because most black people in Bristol actually wanted to keep it for a number of good reasons that had nothing to do with admiration of Colston. And that has been overruled by a bunch of whites who think they know better than they do.
And I am getting sick of trying to get this simple message across. This crowd are not heroes. They are not legitimate protestors. THey are certainly not protesting about the murder of George Floyd. They are violent, racist and anti-democratic thugs and scum.
Anyone who defends them is defending that.
I am queasy at statues being toppled, but it seems clear that Colston was a bad ‘un. He may have done a lot of good work for charidee, but so did Jimmy Savile.
Can’t we agree that the statue probably doesn’t belong where it stood any more, and that toppling the statue, while regrettable, is perhaps understandable in this political climate?
On Topic: Boris and the Brexit Brigade will sign any deal the US puts in front of them and then lie through their teeth about it.
Because what choices do they have?
Not to bother if the deal doesn't suit them.
No trade deals will be done at all, except in circumstances where they can plausibly be sold to the Tories' own voters. It's exactly the same logic as applies to the negotiations with the EU
Except it will not work that way. Boris & the Brexiteers need to have a success to wave around, to show how we are free to sign trade deals.
If they cannot sign Trade Deals after Brexiting then what the hell was the whole point of the thing?
Presumably the main point was to get out of the EU?
They don't just have to walk away from a deal with the US, they can carry on talks for years (and probably would have to regardless, even if the process ultimately ends in success.) In the meantime, more modest but easier to achieve arrangements (e.g. Australia?) can be concluded as proof of progress.
Relative to dealing with the fallout from Covid and throwing money at public services and infrastructure projects, trade negotiations are pretty low down the agenda for what's essentially a cultural centre-right/economic centre-left administration.
On Topic: Boris and the Brexit Brigade will sign any deal the US puts in front of them and then lie through their teeth about it.
Because what choices do they have?
Not to bother if the deal doesn't suit them.
No trade deals will be done at all, except in circumstances where they can plausibly be sold to the Tories' own voters. It's exactly the same logic as applies to the negotiations with the EU
Except it will not work that way. Boris & the Brexiteers need to have a success to wave around, to show how we are free to sign trade deals.
If they cannot sign Trade Deals after Brexiting then what the hell was the whole point of the thing?
to change the direction of UK politics
after 4 years of politics Im amazed you dont get this
I do get it. That is why they need that Trade Deal whatever it costs us.
Amazing all the labourites cheering on criminal behaviour. Remember their outrage at Big Dom behaviour and.claims he would encourage the dangerous behaviour by the public.
Now we literally have labourites advocating forget covid (that think that disproportionately kills BAME individuals) and get into mobs to go smash shit up.
Lots of stuff used to be illegal that shouldn't have been. Some stuff is still illegal that shouldn't be. Sometimes doing what's right matters more than obeying the law. Plenty of stuff would never have changed if nobody had been willing to break the law. A statue of a man who became wealthy on the bloody murder of the slave trade should have been taken down years ago. If this was the only way to get it done, I am happy to applaud it.
So give me an apology for your role in the Irish Potato Famine.
Now.
Are you drinking already? That doesn't even make sense.
Irish Lives Matter
though not to you it seems
I would happily endorse the removal of any statues of British people who played any role in the Irish famine. It was a monstrous crime and another example of our problematic history. The Atlantic slave economy and the plantations at their core built on the British colonial experiment in Ireland, as you know, so the two issues are of course related. Since I am part Irish I'm certainly not going to deny that Irish lives matter, I'd like to see them mattering a whole lot more, in a united Ireland by consent. I'm just a bit confused as to why you are bringing it up since we weren't talking about it.
]Because you asking people to apolgise for evernts outside there experience is as logical as me holding you responsible for potato blight.
When did I ask anybody to apologise? I am just glad that a man who profited from the greatest crime in the history of humanity is no longer being honoured with a statue in one of our cities. I am genuinely surprised that is a controversial view, TBH.
You are genuinely surprised that a bunch of white extremists telling the people of Bristol what statues they can and can’t have because of their own particular views on how people should respond to race and racism is controversial?
It’s a view.
Yes it is surprising to me. The guy is a mass murderer, the statue should have been removed years ago. Like I say, the crowd I saw was mixed, but I don't know why the race of the people involved is important.
As I have said three times, because most black people in Bristol actually wanted to keep it for a number of good reasons that had nothing to do with admiration of Colston. And that has been overruled by a bunch of whites who think they know better than they do.
And I am getting sick of trying to get this simple message across. This crowd are not heroes. They are not legitimate protestors. THey are certainly not protesting about the murder of George Floyd. They are violent, racist and anti-democratic thugs and scum.
Anyone who defends them is defending that.
..and the ones who pissed on /defaced the cenotaph should be doing lots of time in prison
The usual far left and anarchist groups that make up most of the troublemakers have chosen their timing brilliantly it has to be said. By drawing on a ready pool of naive, frustrated and bored young people as a result of the lockdown and then at least initially making themselves impervious to criticism from the woke mainstream media outlets because their cause has a superficial connection to the death of George Floyd they have had a virtually free ride.
Unfortunately there is a sense of Rome burning while Boris fiddles. I suspect plenty of his 2019 voters are quietly and not so quietly seething at the weekend's activities and if the serial defacing of his own declared hero Churchill on the anniversary weekend of D Day can't rouse him off his flatulent arse then he will have made a further miscalculation to add his expanding list.
Two years later and the second plaque that was supposed to have been put up to point out what a horrific monster the man was still ahdnt made it, leaving just the glowing original description.
The story of how people interfered to water down the criticism of Colston is... Interesting.
Without having watched the video (no thanks), the initial statement is given without any form of qualification and is one I totally disagree with.
When I go to a city, I'm vaguely interested in the statues, who they are, what they did etc. I'm not adoring them. The only statues we 'adore' are war memorials, and they contain the names of common soldiers who gave their lives to preserve our freedom. All other statues, generals on horseback, local boys done good, Queen Victoria etc., are just there - we can look at them with a wry smile, a laugh, a sneer, or genuine admiration, it really doesn't matter. Once again, it's people elevating their need not to be displeased over everything and everyone else. It's narcissism, and it's not pretty.
The full story of the Nimrod MRA4 would also be good.
As would the history of UK attempts at AEW&C radar planes. Hint - apart from an early mashup using a Wellington in WWII, every single attempt was an abject failure. Yes, I am aware of the smaller projects that worked such as Gannets and Sea Kings - but all the big attempts were a complete failure.
In my primary school library there was a book called The World's 100 Worst Disasters or some such, it was a slightly weird compendium including the Paisley cinema disaster, the Indian Mutiny and the R101 crash. While the more alpha lads were kicking a tennis ball during lunchtime I'd pore over it, it was doubtless a formative influence.
Would you say there was perhaps a culture of fuckwittery in some of the history of British aeronautics?
On Topic: Boris and the Brexit Brigade will sign any deal the US puts in front of them and then lie through their teeth about it.
Because what choices do they have?
Not to bother if the deal doesn't suit them.
No trade deals will be done at all, except in circumstances where they can plausibly be sold to the Tories' own voters. It's exactly the same logic as applies to the negotiations with the EU
Except it will not work that way. Boris & the Brexiteers need to have a success to wave around, to show how we are free to sign trade deals.
If they cannot sign Trade Deals after Brexiting then what the hell was the whole point of the thing?
to change the direction of UK politics
after 4 years of politics Im amazed you dont get this
I do get it. That is why they need that Trade Deal whatever it costs us.
No they dont. The country will function quite well without any trade deals under WTO. Trade deals just make it easier and sometimes they dont do that. To judge tariffs as the sole arbiter of success is nonsense. An economy consists of a lot more than just trade tarriffs.
On Topic: Boris and the Brexit Brigade will sign any deal the US puts in front of them and then lie through their teeth about it.
Because what choices do they have?
Not to bother if the deal doesn't suit them.
No trade deals will be done at all, except in circumstances where they can plausibly be sold to the Tories' own voters. It's exactly the same logic as applies to the negotiations with the EU
Except it will not work that way. Boris & the Brexiteers need to have a success to wave around, to show how we are free to sign trade deals.
If they cannot sign Trade Deals after Brexiting then what the hell was the whole point of the thing?
Sovereignty! We have regained our Sovereign nation status (which in reality we never really lost, but let's not be clouded by fact). Hallelujah!
Does it cook well? Can I eat it if I am hungry?
It is consumable raw or cooked. It has and is being consumed like fury for the last four years by the hard of thinking.
I can live with teh UK Taliban chucking statues of slave traders into harbours. I can doubly live with it if Farage does not like it ...
Chuck another few statues in
And there go the left's pretensions to any belief in the rule of law. Oh well, I guess we can just ignore them on that topic for the foreseeable future...
I can live with teh UK Taliban chucking statues of slave traders into harbours. I can doubly live with it if Farage does not like it ...
Chuck another few statues in
And there go the left's pretensions to any belief in the rule of law. Oh well, I guess we can just ignore them on that topic for the foreseeable future...
Amazing all the labourites cheering on criminal behaviour. Remember their outrage at Big Dom behaviour and.claims he would encourage the dangerous behaviour by the public.
Now we literally have labourites advocating forget covid (that think that disproportionately kills BAME individuals) and get into mobs to go smash shit up.
Lots of stuff used to be illegal that shouldn't have been. Some stuff is still illegal that shouldn't be. Sometimes doing what's right matters more than obeying the law. Plenty of stuff would never have changed if nobody had been willing to break the law. A statue of a man who became wealthy on the bloody murder of the slave trade should have been taken down years ago. If this was the only way to get it done, I am happy to applaud it.
So give me an apology for your role in the Irish Potato Famine.
Now.
Are you drinking already? That doesn't even make sense.
Irish Lives Matter
though not to you it seems
I would happily endorse the removal of any statues of British people who played any role in the Irish famine. It was a monstrous crime and another example of our problematic history. The Atlantic slave economy and the plantations at their core built on the British colonial experiment in Ireland, as you know, so the two issues are of course related. Since I am part Irish I'm certainly not going to deny that Irish lives matter, I'd like to see them mattering a whole lot more, in a united Ireland by consent. I'm just a bit confused as to why you are bringing it up since we weren't talking about it.
]Because you asking people to apolgise for evernts outside there experience is as logical as me holding you responsible for potato blight.
When did I ask anybody to apologise? I am just glad that a man who profited from the greatest crime in the history of humanity is no longer being honoured with a statue in one of our cities. I am genuinely surprised that is a controversial view, TBH.
You are genuinely surprised that a bunch of white extremists telling the people of Bristol what statues they can and can’t have because of their own particular views on how people should respond to race and racism is controversial?
It’s a view.
Yes it is surprising to me. The guy is a mass murderer, the statue should have been removed years ago. Like I say, the crowd I saw was mixed, but I don't know why the race of the people involved is important.
As I have said three times, because most black people in Bristol actually wanted to keep it for a number of good reasons that had nothing to do with admiration of Colston. And that has been overruled by a bunch of whites who think they know better than they do.
And I am getting sick of trying to get this simple message across. This crowd are not heroes. They are not legitimate protestors. THey are certainly not protesting about the murder of George Floyd. They are violent, racist and anti-democratic thugs and scum.
Anyone who defends them is defending that.
I am queasy at statues being toppled, but it seems clear that Colston was a bad ‘un. He may have done a lot of good work for charidee, but so did Jimmy Savile.
Can’t we agree that the statue probably doesn’t belong where it stood any more, and that toppling the statue, while regrettable, is perhaps understandable in this political climate?
No. If the statue is to be moved in the long term, it needs to be decided by the people of Bristol. It needs to be put back, and the vandals who pulled it down need to be prosecuted. I understand there may be some video evidence.
Amazing all the labourites cheering on criminal behaviour. Remember their outrage at Big Dom behaviour and.claims he would encourage the dangerous behaviour by the public.
Now we literally have labourites advocating forget covid (that think that disproportionately kills BAME individuals) and get into mobs to go smash shit up.
Lots of stuff used to be illegal that shouldn't have been. Some stuff is still illegal that shouldn't be. Sometimes doing what's right matters more than obeying the law. Plenty of stuff would never have changed if nobody had been willing to break the law. A statue of a man who became wealthy on the bloody murder of the slave trade should have been taken down years ago. If this was the only way to get it done, I am happy to applaud it.
So give me an apology for your role in the Irish Potato Famine.
Now.
Are you drinking already? That doesn't even make sense.
Irish Lives Matter
though not to you it seems
I would happily endorse the removal of any statues of British people who played any role in the Irish famine. It was a monstrous crime and another example of our problematic history. The Atlantic slave economy and the plantations at their core built on the British colonial experiment in Ireland, as you know, so the two issues are of course related. Since I am part Irish I'm certainly not going to deny that Irish lives matter, I'd like to see them mattering a whole lot more, in a united Ireland by consent. I'm just a bit confused as to why you are bringing it up since we weren't talking about it.
]Because you asking people to apolgise for evernts outside there experience is as logical as me holding you responsible for potato blight.
When did I ask anybody to apologise? I am just glad that a man who profited from the greatest crime in the history of humanity is no longer being honoured with a statue in one of our cities. I am genuinely surprised that is a controversial view, TBH.
You are genuinely surprised that a bunch of white extremists telling the people of Bristol what statues they can and can’t have because of their own particular views on how people should respond to race and racism is controversial?
It’s a view.
Yes it is surprising to me. The guy is a mass murderer, the statue should have been removed years ago. Like I say, the crowd I saw was mixed, but I don't know why the race of the people involved is important.
As I have said three times, because most black people in Bristol actually wanted to keep it for a number of good reasons that had nothing to do with admiration of Colston. And that has been overruled by a bunch of whites who think they know better than they do.
And I am getting sick of trying to get this simple message across. This crowd are not heroes. They are not legitimate protestors. THey are certainly not protesting about the murder of George Floyd. They are violent, racist and anti-democratic thugs and scum.
Anyone who defends them is defending that.
I am queasy at statues being toppled, but it seems clear that Colston was a bad ‘un. He may have done a lot of good work for charidee, but so did Jimmy Savile.
Can’t we agree that the statue probably doesn’t belong where it stood any more, and that toppling the statue, while regrettable, is perhaps understandable in this political climate?
No. If the statue is to be moved in the long term, it needs to be decided by the people of Bristol. It needs to be put back, and the vandals who pulled it down need to be prosecuted. I understand there may be some video evidence.
The usual far left and anarchist groups that make up most of the troublemakers have chosen their timing brilliantly it has to be said. By drawing on a ready pool of naive, frustrated and bored young people as a result of the lockdown and then at least initially making themselves impervious to criticism from the woke mainstream media outlets because their cause has a superficial connection to the death of George Floyd they have had a virtually free ride.
Unfortunately there is a sense of Rome burning while Boris fiddles. I suspect plenty of his 2019 voters are quietly and not so quietly seething at the weekend's activities and if the serial defacing of his own declared hero Churchill on the anniversary weekend of D Day can't rouse him off his flatulent arse then he will have made a further miscalculation to add his expanding list.
I can just imagine the howls from the woke media (i.e. most of them) if Boris sent in the heavies as the vandals so richly deserve...
Amazing all the labourites cheering on criminal behaviour. Remember their outrage at Big Dom behaviour and.claims he would encourage the dangerous behaviour by the public.
Now we literally have labourites advocating forget covid (that think that disproportionately kills BAME individuals) and get into mobs to go smash shit up.
Lots of stuff used to be illegal that shouldn't have been. Some stuff is still illegal that shouldn't be. Sometimes doing what's right matters more than obeying the law. Plenty of stuff would never have changed if nobody had been willing to break the law. A statue of a man who became wealthy on the bloody murder of the slave trade should have been taken down years ago. If this was the only way to get it done, I am happy to applaud it.
So give me an apology for your role in the Irish Potato Famine.
Now.
Are you drinking already? That doesn't even make sense.
Irish Lives Matter
though not to you it seems
I would happily endorse the removal of any statues of British people who played any role in the Irish famine. It was a monstrous crime and another example of our problematic history. The Atlantic slave economy and the plantations at their core built on the British colonial experiment in Ireland, as you know, so the two issues are of course related. Since I am part Irish I'm certainly not going to deny that Irish lives matter, I'd like to see them mattering a whole lot more, in a united Ireland by consent. I'm just a bit confused as to why you are bringing it up since we weren't talking about it.
]Because you asking people to apolgise for evernts outside there experience is as logical as me holding you responsible for potato blight.
When did I ask anybody to apologise? I am just glad that a man who profited from the greatest crime in the history of humanity is no longer being honoured with a statue in one of our cities. I am genuinely surprised that is a controversial view, TBH.
You are genuinely surprised that a bunch of white extremists telling the people of Bristol what statues they can and can’t have because of their own particular views on how people should respond to race and racism is controversial?
It’s a view.
Yes it is surprising to me. The guy is a mass murderer, the statue should have been removed years ago. Like I say, the crowd I saw was mixed, but I don't know why the race of the people involved is important.
As I have said three times, because most black people in Bristol actually wanted to keep it for a number of good reasons that had nothing to do with admiration of Colston. And that has been overruled by a bunch of whites who think they know better than they do.
And I am getting sick of trying to get this simple message across. This crowd are not heroes. They are not legitimate protestors. THey are certainly not protesting about the murder of George Floyd. They are violent, racist and anti-democratic thugs and scum.
Anyone who defends them is defending that.
I am queasy at statues being toppled, but it seems clear that Colston was a bad ‘un. He may have done a lot of good work for charidee, but so did Jimmy Savile.
Can’t we agree that the statue probably doesn’t belong where it stood any more, and that toppling the statue, while regrettable, is perhaps understandable in this political climate?
Breaking the law to violently impose your view on others when it has been rejected is never understandable.
I can live with teh UK Taliban chucking statues of slave traders into harbours. I can doubly live with it if Farage does not like it ...
Chuck another few statues in
And there go the left's pretensions to any belief in the rule of law. Oh well, I guess we can just ignore them on that topic for the foreseeable future...
Except I am not on the left. I have voted Conservative more times than for any other party
I have voted Labour once, Green once and LD twice. All other times (excluding N Ireland) were for Tories.
But that was back in the day when they were a fiscally responsible party instead of UKIP-lite.
On Topic: Boris and the Brexit Brigade will sign any deal the US puts in front of them and then lie through their teeth about it.
Because what choices do they have?
Not having a trade deal with the US when we don't have one at the moment, but we still have a trade surplus with them, thanks very much?
Exactly! So please explain why we are even bothering to have talks with the USA. As things stand at the moment, we benefit greatly.
Does anyone think that negotiating a trade deal with the USA will encourage them to give us even more money?
Seriously?
The US will offer minimal concessions for an FTA with the UK. So why is the Johnson government doing it when it will upset their own constituencies. Partly for ideological reasons. The EU doesn't have an FTA with the US. It signals the UK doing something different because of Brexit. Partly for reasons of cash provided for results delivered. A lot of money from US interest groups is going into the slushy research organisations surrounding Leave campaigns and Conservative MPs.
On Topic: Boris and the Brexit Brigade will sign any deal the US puts in front of them and then lie through their teeth about it.
Because what choices do they have?
Not to bother if the deal doesn't suit them.
No trade deals will be done at all, except in circumstances where they can plausibly be sold to the Tories' own voters. It's exactly the same logic as applies to the negotiations with the EU
Except it will not work that way. Boris & the Brexiteers need to have a success to wave around, to show how we are free to sign trade deals.
If they cannot sign Trade Deals after Brexiting then what the hell was the whole point of the thing?
Sovereignty! We have regained our Sovereign nation status (which in reality we never really lost, but let's not be clouded by fact). Hallelujah!
Does it cook well? Can I eat it if I am hungry?
It is consumable raw or cooked. It has and is being consumed like fury for the last four years by the hard of thinking.
I can live with teh UK Taliban chucking statues of slave traders into harbours. I can doubly live with it if Farage does not like it ...
Chuck another few statues in
And there go the left's pretensions to any belief in the rule of law. Oh well, I guess we can just ignore them on that topic for the foreseeable future...
Except I am not on the left. I have voted Conservative more times than for any other party
I have voted Labour once, Green once and LD twice. All other times (excluding N Ireland) were for Tories.
But that was back in the day when they were a fiscally responsible party instead of UKIP-lite.
I don't see what part of that makes the illegal destruction of monuments ok, but whatevs...
Amazing all the labourites cheering on criminal behaviour. Remember their outrage at Big Dom behaviour and.claims he would encourage the dangerous behaviour by the public.
Now we literally have labourites advocating forget covid (that think that disproportionately kills BAME individuals) and get into mobs to go smash shit up.
Lots of stuff used to be illegal that shouldn't have been. Some stuff is still illegal that shouldn't be. Sometimes doing what's right matters more than obeying the law. Plenty of stuff would never have changed if nobody had been willing to break the law. A statue of a man who became wealthy on the bloody murder of the slave trade should have been taken down years ago. If this was the only way to get it done, I am happy to applaud it.
So give me an apology for your role in the Irish Potato Famine.
Now.
Are you drinking already? That doesn't even make sense.
Irish Lives Matter
though not to you it seems
I would happily endorse the removal of any statues of British people who played any role in the Irish famine. It was a monstrous crime and another example of our problematic history. The Atlantic slave economy and the plantations at their core built on the British colonial experiment in Ireland, as you know, so the two issues are of course related. Since I am part Irish I'm certainly not going to deny that Irish lives matter, I'd like to see them mattering a whole lot more, in a united Ireland by consent. I'm just a bit confused as to why you are bringing it up since we weren't talking about it.
]Because you asking people to apolgise for evernts outside there experience is as logical as me holding you responsible for potato blight.
When did I ask anybody to apologise? I am just glad that a man who profited from the greatest crime in the history of humanity is no longer being honoured with a statue in one of our cities. I am genuinely surprised that is a controversial view, TBH.
You are genuinely surprised that a bunch of white extremists telling the people of Bristol what statues they can and can’t have because of their own particular views on how people should respond to race and racism is controversial?
It’s a view.
Yes it is surprising to me. The guy is a mass murderer, the statue should have been removed years ago. Like I say, the crowd I saw was mixed, but I don't know why the race of the people involved is important.
Wasn't the Prophet Mohammed a slave owner ?
Would you favour the closure of mosques because of it ?
You'll be waiting for an answer to that one for a very long time.
I can live with teh UK Taliban chucking statues of slave traders into harbours. I can doubly live with it if Farage does not like it ...
Chuck another few statues in
And there go the left's pretensions to any belief in the rule of law. Oh well, I guess we can just ignore them on that topic for the foreseeable future...
As I posted earlier
"Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun."
I can live with teh UK Taliban chucking statues of slave traders into harbours. I can doubly live with it if Farage does not like it ...
Chuck another few statues in
Very right on of you - I am sure an un-checked mob would never go and do anything you couldn't live with, mobs are dependable like that.
Yeah.. put a few more words in my mouth. My post QUITE CLEARLY states that "I can live with teh UK Taliban chucking statues of slave traders into harbours"
Amazing all the labourites cheering on criminal behaviour. Remember their outrage at Big Dom behaviour and.claims he would encourage the dangerous behaviour by the public.
Now we literally have labourites advocating forget covid (that think that disproportionately kills BAME individuals) and get into mobs to go smash shit up.
Lots of stuff used to be illegal that shouldn't have been. Some stuff is still illegal that shouldn't be. Sometimes doing what's right matters more than obeying the law. Plenty of stuff would never have changed if nobody had been willing to break the law. A statue of a man who became wealthy on the bloody murder of the slave trade should have been taken down years ago. If this was the only way to get it done, I am happy to applaud it.
So give me an apology for your role in the Irish Potato Famine.
Now.
Are you drinking already? That doesn't even make sense.
Irish Lives Matter
though not to you it seems
I would happily endorse the removal of any statues of British people who played any role in the Irish famine. It was a monstrous crime and another example of our problematic history. The Atlantic slave economy and the plantations at their core built on the British colonial experiment in Ireland, as you know, so the two issues are of course related. Since I am part Irish I'm certainly not going to deny that Irish lives matter, I'd like to see them mattering a whole lot more, in a united Ireland by consent. I'm just a bit confused as to why you are bringing it up since we weren't talking about it.
]Because you asking people to apolgise for evernts outside there experience is as logical as me holding you responsible for potato blight.
When did I ask anybody to apologise? I am just glad that a man who profited from the greatest crime in the history of humanity is no longer being honoured with a statue in one of our cities. I am genuinely surprised that is a controversial view, TBH.
You are genuinely surprised that a bunch of white extremists telling the people of Bristol what statues they can and can’t have because of their own particular views on how people should respond to race and racism is controversial?
It’s a view.
Yes it is surprising to me. The guy is a mass murderer, the statue should have been removed years ago. Like I say, the crowd I saw was mixed, but I don't know why the race of the people involved is important.
Wasn't the Prophet Mohammed a slave owner ?
Would you favour the closure of mosques because of it ?
You'll be waiting for an answer to that one for a very long time.
Stars will go cold, the galaxy will spin off its axis...
Amazing all the labourites cheering on criminal behaviour. Remember their outrage at Big Dom behaviour and.claims he would encourage the dangerous behaviour by the public.
Now we literally have labourites advocating forget covid (that think that disproportionately kills BAME individuals) and get into mobs to go smash shit up.
Lots of stuff used to be illegal that shouldn't have been. Some stuff is still illegal that shouldn't be. Sometimes doing what's right matters more than obeying the law. Plenty of stuff would never have changed if nobody had been willing to break the law. A statue of a man who became wealthy on the bloody murder of the slave trade should have been taken down years ago. If this was the only way to get it done, I am happy to applaud it.
So give me an apology for your role in the Irish Potato Famine.
Now.
Are you drinking already? That doesn't even make sense.
Irish Lives Matter
though not to you it seems
I would happily endorse the removal of any statues of British people who played any role in the Irish famine. It was a monstrous crime and another example of our problematic history. The Atlantic slave economy and the plantations at their core built on the British colonial experiment in Ireland, as you know, so the two issues are of course related. Since I am part Irish I'm certainly not going to deny that Irish lives matter, I'd like to see them mattering a whole lot more, in a united Ireland by consent. I'm just a bit confused as to why you are bringing it up since we weren't talking about it.
]Because you asking people to apolgise for evernts outside there experience is as logical as me holding you responsible for potato blight.
When did I ask anybody to apologise? I am just glad that a man who profited from the greatest crime in the history of humanity is no longer being honoured with a statue in one of our cities. I am genuinely surprised that is a controversial view, TBH.
You are genuinely surprised that a bunch of white extremists telling the people of Bristol what statues they can and can’t have because of their own particular views on how people should respond to race and racism is controversial?
It’s a view.
Yes it is surprising to me. The guy is a mass murderer, the statue should have been removed years ago. Like I say, the crowd I saw was mixed, but I don't know why the race of the people involved is important.
As I have said three times, because most black people in Bristol actually wanted to keep it for a number of good reasons that had nothing to do with admiration of Colston. And that has been overruled by a bunch of whites who think they know better than they do.
And I am getting sick of trying to get this simple message across. This crowd are not heroes. They are not legitimate protestors. THey are certainly not protesting about the murder of George Floyd. They are violent, racist and anti-democratic thugs and scum.
Anyone who defends them is defending that.
I am queasy at statues being toppled, but it seems clear that Colston was a bad ‘un. He may have done a lot of good work for charidee, but so did Jimmy Savile.
Can’t we agree that the statue probably doesn’t belong where it stood any more, and that toppling the statue, while regrettable, is perhaps understandable in this political climate?
Breaking the law to violently impose your view on others when it has been rejected is never understandable.
I think it's understandable when you see who's doing it.
Amazing all the labourites cheering on criminal behaviour. Remember their outrage at Big Dom behaviour and.claims he would encourage the dangerous behaviour by the public.
Now we literally have labourites advocating forget covid (that think that disproportionately kills BAME individuals) and get into mobs to go smash shit up.
Lots of stuff used to be illegal that shouldn't have been. Some stuff is still illegal that shouldn't be. Sometimes doing what's right matters more than obeying the law. Plenty of stuff would never have changed if nobody had been willing to break the law. A statue of a man who became wealthy on the bloody murder of the slave trade should have been taken down years ago. If this was the only way to get it done, I am happy to applaud it.
So give me an apology for your role in the Irish Potato Famine.
Now.
Are you drinking already? That doesn't even make sense.
You can add one for the highland clearances
The Highland clearances were done by Lowland Scots landlords to Highland Scots peasants.
Regarding Alastair's thread, I think it is more class than racism.
The middle and upper classes do well, and a lot of BAME aren't in those classes.
My grandfather turned up in this country from a country far away and he was instantly a member of the middle class.
Had he have been a manual worker working in the mills I'm not sure I'd have had the same life opportunities that I've enjoyed.
It really depends, my family arrived as manual workers (grandfather worked in factory, father in a warehouse). It took them about 20 years but eventually the family pooled its money and purchased a shop lease to sell jewellery and my dad trained as a chartered accountant after landing a job in a small firm.
Asian families aren't scared of hard work and I think it shows in how successful we've become in this country, we hold two of the great offices of state, an Asian background chancellor was replaced with another Asian background chancellor.
I'm sure your family put the same emphasis on hard work and education mine did when you were growing up and no amount of money can replace that.
Amazing all the labourites cheering on criminal behaviour. Remember their outrage at Big Dom behaviour and.claims he would encourage the dangerous behaviour by the public.
Now we literally have labourites advocating forget covid (that think that disproportionately kills BAME individuals) and get into mobs to go smash shit up.
Lots of stuff used to be illegal that shouldn't have been. Some stuff is still illegal that shouldn't be. Sometimes doing what's right matters more than obeying the law. Plenty of stuff would never have changed if nobody had been willing to break the law. A statue of a man who became wealthy on the bloody murder of the slave trade should have been taken down years ago. If this was the only way to get it done, I am happy to applaud it.
So give me an apology for your role in the Irish Potato Famine.
Now.
Are you drinking already? That doesn't even make sense.
Irish Lives Matter
though not to you it seems
I would happily endorse the removal of any statues of British people who played any role in the Irish famine. It was a monstrous crime and another example of our problematic history. The Atlantic slave economy and the plantations at their core built on the British colonial experiment in Ireland, as you know, so the two issues are of course related. Since I am part Irish I'm certainly not going to deny that Irish lives matter, I'd like to see them mattering a whole lot more, in a united Ireland by consent. I'm just a bit confused as to why you are bringing it up since we weren't talking about it.
]Because you asking people to apolgise for evernts outside there experience is as logical as me holding you responsible for potato blight.
When did I ask anybody to apologise? I am just glad that a man who profited from the greatest crime in the history of humanity is no longer being honoured with a statue in one of our cities. I am genuinely surprised that is a controversial view, TBH.
You are genuinely surprised that a bunch of white extremists telling the people of Bristol what statues they can and can’t have because of their own particular views on how people should respond to race and racism is controversial?
It’s a view.
Yes it is surprising to me. The guy is a mass murderer, the statue should have been removed years ago. Like I say, the crowd I saw was mixed, but I don't know why the race of the people involved is important.
As I have said three times, because most black people in Bristol actually wanted to keep it for a number of good reasons that had nothing to do with admiration of Colston. And that has been overruled by a bunch of whites who think they know better than they do.
And I am getting sick of trying to get this simple message across. This crowd are not heroes. They are not legitimate protestors. THey are certainly not protesting about the murder of George Floyd. They are violent, racist and anti-democratic thugs and scum.
Anyone who defends them is defending that.
I am queasy at statues being toppled, but it seems clear that Colston was a bad ‘un. He may have done a lot of good work for charidee, but so did Jimmy Savile.
Can’t we agree that the statue probably doesn’t belong where it stood any more, and that toppling the statue, while regrettable, is perhaps understandable in this political climate?
Breaking the law to violently impose your view on others when it has been rejected is never understandable.
I don’t like seeing it. I think it’s vandalism. But part of me says that you can’t have a omelette without breaking some eggs.
If an increased consciousness of structural racism means we have to live without the statue of a slave trader in central Bristol, then...seems a small price to pay?
The usual far left and anarchist groups that make up most of the troublemakers have chosen their timing brilliantly it has to be said. By drawing on a ready pool of naive, frustrated and bored young people as a result of the lockdown and then at least initially making themselves impervious to criticism from the woke mainstream media outlets because their cause has a superficial connection to the death of George Floyd they have had a virtually free ride.
Unfortunately there is a sense of Rome burning while Boris fiddles. I suspect plenty of his 2019 voters are quietly and not so quietly seething at the weekend's activities and if the serial defacing of his own declared hero Churchill on the anniversary weekend of D Day can't rouse him off his flatulent arse then he will have made a further miscalculation to add his expanding list.
The full story of the Nimrod MRA4 would also be good.
As would the history of UK attempts at AEW&C radar planes. Hint - apart from an early mashup using a Wellington in WWII, every single attempt was an abject failure. Yes, I am aware of the smaller projects that worked such as Gannets and Sea Kings - but all the big attempts were a complete failure.
In my primary school library there was a book called The World's 100 Worst Disasters or some such, it was a slightly weird compendium including the Paisley cinema disaster, the Indian Mutiny and the R101 crash. While the more alpha lads were kicking a tennis ball during lunchtime I'd pore over it, it was doubtless a formative influence.
Would you say there was perhaps a culture of fuckwittery in some of the history of British aeronautics?
Yes. Sufficient idiocy that Frank Whittle had the design for the jet engine turned down in 1930 and so took the jet engine aboard to develop it. They even let him patent it in his own name!
Also, Parsons and the marine turbine - it only succeeded because he rubbed the noses of the Admiralty in it publicly by steaming past them all at high speed at Portsmouth after they had turned him down.
Amazing all the labourites cheering on criminal behaviour. Remember their outrage at Big Dom behaviour and.claims he would encourage the dangerous behaviour by the public.
Now we literally have labourites advocating forget covid (that think that disproportionately kills BAME individuals) and get into mobs to go smash shit up.
Lots of stuff used to be illegal that shouldn't have been. Some stuff is still illegal that shouldn't be. Sometimes doing what's right matters more than obeying the law. Plenty of stuff would never have changed if nobody had been willing to break the law. A statue of a man who became wealthy on the bloody murder of the slave trade should have been taken down years ago. If this was the only way to get it done, I am happy to applaud it.
So give me an apology for your role in the Irish Potato Famine.
Now.
Are you drinking already? That doesn't even make sense.
Irish Lives Matter
though not to you it seems
I would happily endorse the removal of any statues of British people who played any role in the Irish famine. It was a monstrous crime and another example of our problematic history. The Atlantic slave economy and the plantations at their core built on the British colonial experiment in Ireland, as you know, so the two issues are of course related. Since I am part Irish I'm certainly not going to deny that Irish lives matter, I'd like to see them mattering a whole lot more, in a united Ireland by consent. I'm just a bit confused as to why you are bringing it up since we weren't talking about it.
]Because you asking people to apolgise for evernts outside there experience is as logical as me holding you responsible for potato blight.
When did I ask anybody to apologise? I am just glad that a man who profited from the greatest crime in the history of humanity is no longer being honoured with a statue in one of our cities. I am genuinely surprised that is a controversial view, TBH.
You are genuinely surprised that a bunch of white extremists telling the people of Bristol what statues they can and can’t have because of their own particular views on how people should respond to race and racism is controversial?
It’s a view.
Yes it is surprising to me. The guy is a mass murderer, the statue should have been removed years ago. Like I say, the crowd I saw was mixed, but I don't know why the race of the people involved is important.
Wasn't the Prophet Mohammed a slave owner ?
Would you favour the closure of mosques because of it ?
Sure, why not?
I'm going to file pulling down a statue to a slave trader in the same kind of category as driving to Barnhard Castle during lockdown - sure its illegal technically but I honestly couldn't care less about it.
Its right not to have statues to slave traders in 21st century. Maybe the statue can be recovered and put in a museum somewhere but not out and about on display.
Amazing all the labourites cheering on criminal behaviour. Remember their outrage at Big Dom behaviour and.claims he would encourage the dangerous behaviour by the public.
Now we literally have labourites advocating forget covid (that think that disproportionately kills BAME individuals) and get into mobs to go smash shit up.
Lots of stuff used to be illegal that shouldn't have been. Some stuff is still illegal that shouldn't be. Sometimes doing what's right matters more than obeying the law. Plenty of stuff would never have changed if nobody had been willing to break the law. A statue of a man who became wealthy on the bloody murder of the slave trade should have been taken down years ago. If this was the only way to get it done, I am happy to applaud it.
So give me an apology for your role in the Irish Potato Famine.
Now.
Are you drinking already? That doesn't even make sense.
Irish Lives Matter
though not to you it seems
I would happily endorse the removal of any statues of British people who played any role in the Irish famine. It was a monstrous crime and another example of our problematic history. The Atlantic slave economy and the plantations at their core built on the British colonial experiment in Ireland, as you know, so the two issues are of course related. Since I am part Irish I'm certainly not going to deny that Irish lives matter, I'd like to see them mattering a whole lot more, in a united Ireland by consent. I'm just a bit confused as to why you are bringing it up since we weren't talking about it.
You should set your weeping and wailing about British evil to one of the gloomier bits of Elgar.
Amazing all the labourites cheering on criminal behaviour. Remember their outrage at Big Dom behaviour and.claims he would encourage the dangerous behaviour by the public.
Now we literally have labourites advocating forget covid (that think that disproportionately kills BAME individuals) and get into mobs to go smash shit up.
Lots of stuff used to be illegal that shouldn't have been. Some stuff is still illegal that shouldn't be. Sometimes doing what's right matters more than obeying the law. Plenty of stuff would never have changed if nobody had been willing to break the law. A statue of a man who became wealthy on the bloody murder of the slave trade should have been taken down years ago. If this was the only way to get it done, I am happy to applaud it.
So give me an apology for your role in the Irish Potato Famine.
Now.
Are you drinking already? That doesn't even make sense.
Irish Lives Matter
though not to you it seems
I would happily endorse the removal of any statues of British people who played any role in the Irish famine. It was a monstrous crime and another example of our problematic history. The Atlantic slave economy and the plantations at their core built on the British colonial experiment in Ireland, as you know, so the two issues are of course related. Since I am part Irish I'm certainly not going to deny that Irish lives matter, I'd like to see them mattering a whole lot more, in a united Ireland by consent. I'm just a bit confused as to why you are bringing it up since we weren't talking about it.
]Because you asking people to apolgise for evernts outside there experience is as logical as me holding you responsible for potato blight.
When did I ask anybody to apologise? I am just glad that a man who profited from the greatest crime in the history of humanity is no longer being honoured with a statue in one of our cities. I am genuinely surprised that is a controversial view, TBH.
You are genuinely surprised that a bunch of white extremists telling the people of Bristol what statues they can and can’t have because of their own particular views on how people should respond to race and racism is controversial?
It’s a view.
Yes it is surprising to me. The guy is a mass murderer, the statue should have been removed years ago. Like I say, the crowd I saw was mixed, but I don't know why the race of the people involved is important.
Wasn't the Prophet Mohammed a slave owner ?
Would you favour the closure of mosques because of it ?
You'll be waiting for an answer to that one for a very long time.
Aren't arabs the slaver trader's slave traders? It was and still is a long supply chain.
Don't forget ladies and gentlemen, that fishing makes up 0.1% of our GDP
Throwing the “fisherpeople” under the bus in 1973 was perhaps where modern Euroscepticism started.
It may be insignificant, but it seems offends a sense of fair play. The EU would do well to cave on this in exchange for British compromise on level playing field etc.
I can live with teh UK Taliban chucking statues of slave traders into harbours. I can doubly live with it if Farage does not like it ...
Chuck another few statues in
Very right on of you - I am sure an un-checked mob would never go and do anything you couldn't live with, mobs are dependable like that.
Yeah.. put a few more words in my mouth. My post QUITE CLEARLY states that "I can live with teh UK Taliban chucking statues of slave traders into harbours"
I did not gave them support for other actions.
You quite clearly gave them support to vandalise a public building that they objected to. If you do that, what authority do you think you then have to say 'Ok, ok, hold up lads, that statue was fine, these shops, not fine.'. Your liking or otherwise for the particular statue is immaterial. You don't give your consent to mob rule, full stop, end of. And if you do, you accept whatever consequences come.
Regarding Alastair's thread, I think it is more class than racism.
The middle and upper classes do well, and a lot of BAME aren't in those classes.
My grandfather turned up in this country from a country far away and he was instantly a member of the middle class.
Had he have been a manual worker working in the mills I'm not sure I'd have had the same life opportunities that I've enjoyed.
It really depends, my family arrived as manual workers (grandfather worked in factory, father in a warehouse). It took them about 20 years but eventually the family pooled its money and purchased a shop lease to sell jewellery and my dad trained as a chartered accountant after landing a job in a small firm.
Asian families aren't scared of hard work and I think it shows in how successful we've become in this country, we hold two of the great offices of state, an Asian background chancellor was replaced with another Asian background chancellor.
I'm sure your family put the same emphasis on hard work and education mine did when you were growing up and no amount of money can replace that.
I think that is the true beauty of the video that Alastair posted - that you can get outcomes that hit one race/minorities hard without the causes being racist.
However, I think you could justifiably argue that a society that notices those unfair outcomes and does nothing about it is racist.
I can live with teh UK Taliban chucking statues of slave traders into harbours. I can doubly live with it if Farage does not like it ...
Chuck another few statues in
Very right on of you - I am sure an un-checked mob would never go and do anything you couldn't live with, mobs are dependable like that.
Yeah.. put a few more words in my mouth. My post QUITE CLEARLY states that "I can live with teh UK Taliban chucking statues of slave traders into harbours"
I did not gave them support for other actions.
I'm sure they'll note the restrictive nature of your support.
I can live with teh UK Taliban chucking statues of slave traders into harbours. I can doubly live with it if Farage does not like it ...
Chuck another few statues in
And there go the left's pretensions to any belief in the rule of law. Oh well, I guess we can just ignore them on that topic for the foreseeable future...
As I posted earlier
"Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun."
Slavers no more represent "my race" than Jimmy Saville did. Farage can go f**k himself with a rusty screwdriver as far as I'm concerned with this post.
If there's going to be a riot between those pro-slavery and those anti-slavery I'll stand on the anti-slavery side thank you very much.
Don't forget ladies and gentlemen, that fishing makes up 0.1% of our GDP
Throwing the “fisherpeople” under the bus in 1973 was perhaps where modern Euroscepticism started.
It may be insignificant, but it seems offends a sense of fair play. The EU would do well to cave on this in exchange for British compromise on level playing field etc.
Don't forget ladies and gentlemen, that fishing makes up 0.1% of our GDP
Throwing the “fisherpeople” under the bus in 1973 was perhaps where modern Euroscepticism started.
It may be insignificant, but it seems offends a sense of fair play. The EU would do well to cave on this in exchange for British compromise on level playing field etc.
Euroscepticism started well before 1973.
Modern, Alanbrooke. Modern. I appreciate modernity is a foreign concept to you.
Slavers no more represent "my race" than Jimmy Saville did. Farage can go f**k himself with a rusty screwdriver as far as I'm concerned with this post.
If there's going to be a riot between those pro-slavery and those anti-slavery I'll stand on the anti-slavery side thank you very much.
I think Priti is dreadful, but if she goes it ends all doubt that Cummings is the de facto Prime Minister.
It also means both Remainers and hard Brexiteers within the Tory Party will be enemies of Cummings, Cummings can beat off one of those factions, both however is much more difficult
Slavers no more represent "my race" than Jimmy Saville did. Farage can go f**k himself with a rusty screwdriver as far as I'm concerned with this post.
If there's going to be a riot between those pro-slavery and those anti-slavery I'll stand on the anti-slavery side thank you very much.
Farage is ever more desperate for relevance. He clearly can't abide not having the daily fix of being on TV or radio.
Comments
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/feb/24/ben-bradley-apologises-unreservedly-for-corbyn-spy-claims
Because what choices do they have?
But you could add that the working class are less able to work from home which both puts them at more risk and means that quarantine restrictions on international travel will affect them more.
It’s a view.
Sixty of our finest British pounds gets one a handful of excellent produce from an artisan butchers. The same items, but generally tasteless, brine-injected, mechanically recovered shite from a well known supermarket will be yours for less than twenty quid.
I wouldn't expect there to be huge differences with people from Ghana - although would more people from West Africa be first generation immigrants from middle class families? That was my experience through work, but no idea if it's true or just a stereotype.
Why the sudden swing in British opinion?
1) The Enlightentment, and in particular the radical ideas of the French and American revolutions, as well as very widely read British radicals like Thomas Paine.
2) The widespread evangelical revival that swept Britain in late Eighteenth century.
3) The Industrial Revolution meaning manufactured products rather than primary commodities were where the money was.
4) The Haitian revolution. Bloody, barbaric and complex, but we lost more than 30 000 troops at the height of the Napoleaonic wars in a disastrous campaign to re-enslave the Haitian Jacobites. Once there was a free Black state in near proximity to Jamaica and the other sugar islands, the security issues for slaveholders became massive.
So a conjunction of ideas, economics and security meant that by abolition in 1832 slaveowners were glad to be bought out by the government. That's correct, we paid compensation to the owners, not to the enslaved, and even forced them into indentured servant status afterwards.
No trade deals will be done at all, except in circumstances where they can plausibly be sold to the Tories' own voters. It's exactly the same logic as applies to the negotiations with the EU
But you need to start earlier - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMA_No._1 really kicked off the comedy.
The full story of the Nimrod MRA4 would also be good.
As would the history of UK attempts at AEW&C radar planes. Hint - apart from an early mashup using a Wellington in WWII, every single attempt was an abject failure. Yes, I am aware of the smaller projects that worked such as Gannets and Sea Kings - but all the big attempts were a complete failure.
https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/opinion/articles/2015-10-13/it-isn-t-just-asian-immigrants-who-excel-in-the-u-s-?__twitter_impression=true
If they cannot sign Trade Deals after Brexiting then what the hell was the whole point of the thing?
The issue with Colston is that he endowed a huge number of public works and buildings in Bristol - paid for with money from slaving. Most of them are still in place. Should they be demolished? Because ultimately, pulling down a statue and yet leaving the practical effects of his life and crimes in place renders the whole thing more pointless than a broken pencil. Worse, it arguably helps airbrush the distinctly dubious foundations of those things from history.
The difference in outcomes for all the indicators is large as well. Much of the progress made for the "black" population is from the more recent immigrants. The poor parts of the Afro-Carribbean community are still being left behind...
Edit: Sorry, you are correct, the conflict seemed to involve many temporary alliances.
Like I say, the crowd I saw was mixed, but I don't know why the race of the people involved is important.
Were the Taliban wrong to take destroy the Buddhas of Bamyan statues? In their world view the statues represented evil and should therefore be destroyed?
What is the principle that makes them wrong and taking down western statues right? Is it just that their world view itself is wrong (which I clearly think it is, but it makes the argument pretty flimsy).
after 4 years of politics Im amazed you dont get this
Does anyone think that negotiating a trade deal with the USA will encourage them to give us even more money?
Seriously?
bribedfunded by US interestsAnd I am getting sick of trying to get this simple message across. This crowd are not heroes. They are not legitimate protestors. THey are certainly not protesting about the murder of George Floyd. They are violent, racist and anti-democratic thugs and scum.
Anyone who defends them is defending that.
Would you favour the closure of mosques because of it ?
Does it cook well? Can I eat it if I am hungry?
https://twitter.com/clarkemicah/status/1269533797604884480?s=21
Can’t we agree that the statue probably doesn’t belong where it stood any more, and that toppling the statue, while regrettable, is perhaps understandable in this political climate?
They don't just have to walk away from a deal with the US, they can carry on talks for years (and probably would have to regardless, even if the process ultimately ends in success.) In the meantime, more modest but easier to achieve arrangements (e.g. Australia?) can be concluded as proof of progress.
Relative to dealing with the fallout from Covid and throwing money at public services and infrastructure projects, trade negotiations are pretty low down the agenda for what's essentially a cultural centre-right/economic centre-left administration.
Chuck another few statues in
Unfortunately there is a sense of Rome burning while Boris fiddles. I suspect plenty of his 2019 voters are quietly and not so quietly seething at the weekend's activities and if the serial defacing of his own declared hero Churchill on the anniversary weekend of D Day can't rouse him off his flatulent arse then he will have made a further miscalculation to add his expanding list.
The story of how people interfered to water down the criticism of Colston is... Interesting.
https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/second-colston-statue-plaque-not-2682813
When I go to a city, I'm vaguely interested in the statues, who they are, what they did etc. I'm not adoring them. The only statues we 'adore' are war memorials, and they contain the names of common soldiers who gave their lives to preserve our freedom. All other statues, generals on horseback, local boys done good, Queen Victoria etc., are just there - we can look at them with a wry smile, a laugh, a sneer, or genuine admiration, it really doesn't matter. Once again, it's people elevating their need not to be displeased over everything and everyone else. It's narcissism, and it's not pretty.
Would you say there was perhaps a culture of fuckwittery in some of the history of British aeronautics?
https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1269705670670114816
I have voted Labour once, Green once and LD twice. All other times (excluding N Ireland) were for Tories.
But that was back in the day when they were a fiscally responsible party instead of UKIP-lite.
"Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun."
The left's law.
I did not gave them support for other actions.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jun/07/brexit-uk-fears-eu-chief-negotiator-has-lost-grip-on-fishing-talks
Don't forget ladies and gentlemen, that fishing makes up 0.1% of our GDP
https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1269705670670114816?s=19
Asian families aren't scared of hard work and I think it shows in how successful we've become in this country, we hold two of the great offices of state, an Asian background chancellor was replaced with another Asian background chancellor.
I'm sure your family put the same emphasis on hard work and education mine did when you were growing up and no amount of money can replace that.
But part of me says that you can’t have a omelette without breaking some eggs.
If an increased consciousness of structural racism means we have to live without the statue of a slave trader in central Bristol, then...seems a small price to pay?
Also, Parsons and the marine turbine - it only succeeded because he rubbed the noses of the Admiralty in it publicly by steaming past them all at high speed at Portsmouth after they had turned him down.
I'm going to file pulling down a statue to a slave trader in the same kind of category as driving to Barnhard Castle during lockdown - sure its illegal technically but I honestly couldn't care less about it.
Its right not to have statues to slave traders in 21st century. Maybe the statue can be recovered and put in a museum somewhere but not out and about on display.
It may be insignificant, but it seems offends a sense of fair play. The EU would do well to cave on this in exchange for British compromise on level playing field etc.
However, I think you could justifiably argue that a society that notices those unfair outcomes and does nothing about it is racist.
If there's going to be a riot between those pro-slavery and those anti-slavery I'll stand on the anti-slavery side thank you very much.
I appreciate modernity is a foreign concept to you.
I am shocked
Desperate and pathetic.