Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » A big challenge for Johnson and his minsters is that their rat

13567

Comments

  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    DougSeal said:

    James Bond has been a British English character with a long family history going back to the Normans as far as I recall ...

    A point of order Mr Speaker - James Bond is Scottish.
    Grew up in Kent though.
    Schooled at Eton, like Boris.
    Expelled for shagging one of the cleaners though IIRC
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    Fishing said:

    DougSeal said:



    Similarly we have no problem with James Bond having a Scots, English, Irish or indeed Australian accent, having brown or blue eyes, chest hair or no chest hair, but if a black actor is ever cast in the role we all know how the usual suspects will react.

    Probably the same as if a man played Miss/Mr Marple.
    Or Hugh Grant played Robert Mugabe.

    For clarity, however, I think that James Bond, a fictional character, as someone has noted similarly to Dr Who, could be played by anyone and should be played by Idris Elba and should absofuckinglutely not be played by Tom Hiddleston.
  • coachcoach Posts: 250
    kjh said:

    Alistair said:

    coach said:

    kjh said:

    coach said:

    kjh said:

    coach said:

    kjh said:

    coach said:

    kjh said:

    coach said:

    Alistair said:

    IanB2 said:

    Interesting to hear the editor of the Guardian say yesterday that they had decided to do a feature comparing the stories of health workers in the UK, US and Australia who had died of Coronavirus, but the Australian Guardian came back and said they didn't have any who had died.

    The reason we have the worst stats is that we are the best at collecting them.

    In regard to the black lives matters march yesterday in the UK, I wonder why people just shrug when almost on a daily basis a black teenager stabs to death another black teenager just becuase of the street that he lives in. Why is there not a march about this, don't these black lives matter?
    Yes, I think you are beginning to understand how systemic racism works.

    BLM is about combating systemic racism.
    Young kids in London stabbing each other is nothing to do with race its to do with drugs
    So why do you think they are predominantly black then?
    No idea mate, just stating a fact
    Yes you do. You didn't state a fact, you stated an opinion. You said it had nothing to do with race. That is an opinion not a fact. The FACT that a disproportionate number are black implies it is related to race.
    It is a fact, you might find it uncomfortable but its undeniable. Talk to the middle class white people who buy the drugs, they know the score.

    And I appreciate you're desperate to call me a racist so just get it over and done with.
    This is weird Do you not know the difference between a fact and an opinion?

    Do you not know what systemic means?
    I really have no idea where you're going with this, but its clear you have very little understanding of the drug supply chain in the UK.

    I know you don't understand where I am going with this. You don't seem to be able to understand the logic. Doesn't it make you think there's an issue with your thinking when several people use the word weird to describe the structure of your argument.

    You are right I know nothing about drug supply. What has that got to do with the argument

    Let me ask you, do you think black people are genetically more likely to be drug dealers or do you think there's another reason?
    I know nothing about genetics and I have no idea why the vast majority of stabbings are drug related and black on black.
    What are you even arguing then?

    I'm saying it is systemic racism is involved. You are saying it isn't but offer no counter argument.
    I'm going to have one more go coach without using the words systemic or genetic.

    Coach do you think that a disproportionate number of black people are involved in drug dealing and gangs because:

    a) it is inherent in being black

    or

    b) because of the environment in which they were brought up in and live?
    I don't know, I'm not qualified to make a reasoned argument.

    What I do know is that too many people who claim to be aware of and concerned by the issues massively contribute to them.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,222
    TOPPING said:

    Fishing said:

    DougSeal said:



    Similarly we have no problem with James Bond having a Scots, English, Irish or indeed Australian accent, having brown or blue eyes, chest hair or no chest hair, but if a black actor is ever cast in the role we all know how the usual suspects will react.

    Probably the same as if a man played Miss/Mr Marple.
    Or Hugh Grant played Robert Mugabe.

    For clarity, however, I think that James Bond, a fictional character, as someone has noted similarly to Dr Who, could be played by anyone and should be played by Idris Elba and should absofuckinglutely not be played by Tom Hiddleston.
    Definitely agree with you on the latter point.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,805
    coach said:

    Alistair said:

    coach said:



    Alistair, we're wasting each other's time.

    I just don't understand your angle in this. Pointing out there is a lot of black on black violence over the drug trade doesn't make Systemic Racsim not exist nor does it disprove that Systemic Racsim involved as one of the main root cause of black youths getting involved in the drug trade leading to lots of black on black violence over the drug trade.

    Maybe I'm dense and have missed your brilliant take down of the concept of Systemic Racism but saying black on black gang violence over the drug trade exists isn't it.
    I've no idea what you're trying to prove here, I've no idea what you mean by Systemic Racism and you refuse to say who "we" are.

    Have a good day
    Coach if you answer my simple question posted at 9.55 I think we clear this up once and for all.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,773
    edited June 2020
    kjh said:

    Alistair said:

    coach said:

    kjh said:

    coach said:

    kjh said:

    coach said:

    kjh said:

    coach said:

    kjh said:

    coach said:

    Alistair said:

    IanB2 said:

    Interesting to hear the editor of the Guardian say yesterday that they had decided to do a feature comparing the stories of health workers in the UK, US and Australia who had died of Coronavirus, but the Australian Guardian came back and said they didn't have any who had died.

    The reason we have the worst stats is that we are the best at collecting them.

    In regard to the black lives matters march yesterday in the UK, I wonder why people just shrug when almost on a daily basis a black teenager stabs to death another black teenager just becuase of the street that he lives in. Why is there not a march about this, don't these black lives matter?
    Yes, I think you are beginning to understand how systemic racism works.

    BLM is about combating systemic racism.
    Young kids in London stabbing each other is nothing to do with race its to do with drugs
    So why do you think they are predominantly black then?
    No idea mate, just stating a fact
    Yes you do. You didn't state a fact, you stated an opinion. You said it had nothing to do with race. That is an opinion not a fact. The FACT that a disproportionate number are black implies it is related to race.
    It is a fact, you might find it uncomfortable but its undeniable. Talk to the middle class white people who buy the drugs, they know the score.

    And I appreciate you're desperate to call me a racist so just get it over and done with.
    This is weird Do you not know the difference between a fact and an opinion?

    Do you not know what systemic means?
    I really have no idea where you're going with this, but its clear you have very little understanding of the drug supply chain in the UK.

    I know you don't understand where I am going with this. You don't seem to be able to understand the logic. Doesn't it make you think there's an issue with your thinking when several people use the word weird to describe the structure of your argument.

    You are right I know nothing about drug supply. What has that got to do with the argument

    Let me ask you, do you think black people are genetically more likely to be drug dealers or do you think there's another reason?
    I know nothing about genetics and I have no idea why the vast majority of stabbings are drug related and black on black.
    What are you even arguing then?

    I'm saying it is systemic racism is involved. You are saying it isn't but offer no counter argument.
    I'm going to have one more go coach without using the words systemic or genetic.

    Coach do you think that a disproportionate number of black people are involved in drug dealing and gangs because:

    a) it is inherent in being black

    or

    b) because of the environment in which they were brought up in and live?
    When you say black, do you mean race, or culture?

    The answer is a degree of both.

    Edit: by both i mean 'culture' and environment...not race itself, just to make clear.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,608
    I see the Duchess of Sussex has popped up - to remind us that her life matters...

    No doubt she is hoping it gets covered by the Daily Mail.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    I'm surprised that the ratings are as high as they are. The government has been shambolic in a lot of areas.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,929
    Carnyx said:

    IanB2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Study here finding hearing damage in asymptomatic coronavirus positives -

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7151386/

    As explanation or mitigation for the PM?
    I wonder if he is frightened of being seen wearing a hearing aid, even the little ones behind the ear?
    There is one piece of evidence for the proposition: Boris got backbenchers to stop barracking during PMQs. It is possible this is so he can hear better, but I doubt it. The benches have speakers built into them, and if you look at old PMQs, you can see Theresa May lean towards them. And in any case, the anti-barracking directive came before covid-19.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992

    I see the Duchess of Sussex has popped up - to remind us that her life matters...

    No doubt she is hoping it gets covered by the Daily Mail.

    Oh there you are.

    I had a question for you recently. Still hearing chaffinches although less so now. Plenty of whitethroats, although am I imagining that they are also lessening? Plus finally the yellowhammers are finding their voices. New songs? Skylarks and wrens.

    Does that accord with breeing/migration patterns? What should I be looking (listening) our for?
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,773

    I see the Duchess of Sussex has popped up - to remind us that her life matters...

    No doubt she is hoping it gets covered by the Daily Mail.

    No doubt they are cursing their timing. No one cares too hoots about them, or their 'brand' anymore.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    TOPPING said:

    Fishing said:

    DougSeal said:



    Similarly we have no problem with James Bond having a Scots, English, Irish or indeed Australian accent, having brown or blue eyes, chest hair or no chest hair, but if a black actor is ever cast in the role we all know how the usual suspects will react.

    Probably the same as if a man played Miss/Mr Marple.
    Or Hugh Grant played Robert Mugabe.

    For clarity, however, I think that James Bond, a fictional character, as someone has noted similarly to Dr Who, could be played by anyone and should be played by Idris Elba and should absofuckinglutely not be played by Tom Hiddleston.
    Idris Elba is too old now. Especially since the next one won't start filming for another year or so. Would have been a good shout 5 years ago though.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    Nigelb said:

    TOPPING said:

    Fishing said:

    DougSeal said:



    Similarly we have no problem with James Bond having a Scots, English, Irish or indeed Australian accent, having brown or blue eyes, chest hair or no chest hair, but if a black actor is ever cast in the role we all know how the usual suspects will react.

    Probably the same as if a man played Miss/Mr Marple.
    Or Hugh Grant played Robert Mugabe.

    For clarity, however, I think that James Bond, a fictional character, as someone has noted similarly to Dr Who, could be played by anyone and should be played by Idris Elba and should absofuckinglutely not be played by Tom Hiddleston.
    Definitely agree with you on the latter point.
    10 years ago Idris Elba would have rocked the role but he’s too old now.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    Fishing said:

    DougSeal said:



    Similarly we have no problem with James Bond having a Scots, English, Irish or indeed Australian accent, having brown or blue eyes, chest hair or no chest hair, but if a black actor is ever cast in the role we all know how the usual suspects will react.

    Probably the same as if a man played Miss/Mr Marple.
    Or Hugh Grant played Robert Mugabe.

    For clarity, however, I think that James Bond, a fictional character, as someone has noted similarly to Dr Who, could be played by anyone and should be played by Idris Elba and should absofuckinglutely not be played by Tom Hiddleston.
    Idris Elba is too old now. Especially since the next one won't start filming for another year or so. Would have been a good shout 5 years ago though.
    He's five years younger than Daniel Craig.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,885

    Carnyx said:

    Jackson Carlaw, Leader of the Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party. twisting the knife into BoZo’s belly just now on BBC Radio Scotland. He says, repeatedly, that he is “not wholly convinced” by Dominic Cummings’ explanation for his actions.

    Classic code for “the man’s a liar”.

    Astonishingly, Carlaw has not spoken to his boss BoZo in months. They have only exchanged two text messages since The Clown was released from hospital.

    Carlaw sounds like a drowning man, unable to affect either his opponents nor his (supposed) allies.

    The Milton Keynes appointee is a real kick in the groin.

    MK? *googles for land of concrete coos* Ah - now I see. Blood is sure thicker than residence when it comes to Tories. But what a dunt in the baws to the actual Scottish Tories. Remiunds me of the day when the Scottish Office was run by a MP from Weston-Super-Mare IIRC.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-52880226
    I will defer to our actual Scottish posters on this (and we can always rely on Malc for a fair and balanced appraisal of the situation), but right now it looks to me as if the Conservatives are going to get absolutely, utterly, walloped in the Holyrood elections next year. As in a panda-level event.
    I wouldn't say that - just 'might' rather than 'will'. Two factors -

    1. Will Mr Johnson still be in power in No 10? For some reason which escapes me, Mr Johnson is widely seen as a complete clown, even by some of the elderly male reactionaries whose politics were seemingly set in concrete before the Suez Crisis.
    2. Fishing and farming - especially inshore fishing - are very dependent on the EU and FM. Still too early to say what happens but we will see when the shite hits the aircon and their Toryism collides with reality - whatever that turns out to be.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    Fishing said:

    DougSeal said:



    Similarly we have no problem with James Bond having a Scots, English, Irish or indeed Australian accent, having brown or blue eyes, chest hair or no chest hair, but if a black actor is ever cast in the role we all know how the usual suspects will react.

    Probably the same as if a man played Miss/Mr Marple.
    Or Hugh Grant played Robert Mugabe.

    For clarity, however, I think that James Bond, a fictional character, as someone has noted similarly to Dr Who, could be played by anyone and should be played by Idris Elba and should absofuckinglutely not be played by Tom Hiddleston.
    Idris Elba is too old now. Especially since the next one won't start filming for another year or so. Would have been a good shout 5 years ago though.
    He's five years younger than Daniel Craig.
    Yes and Daniel Craig is way too old for the role. It's getting to Sean Connery in Never Say Never Again levels of inappropriate oldness for the role.
  • coachcoach Posts: 250
    kjh said:

    coach said:

    Alistair said:

    coach said:



    Alistair, we're wasting each other's time.

    I just don't understand your angle in this. Pointing out there is a lot of black on black violence over the drug trade doesn't make Systemic Racsim not exist nor does it disprove that Systemic Racsim involved as one of the main root cause of black youths getting involved in the drug trade leading to lots of black on black violence over the drug trade.

    Maybe I'm dense and have missed your brilliant take down of the concept of Systemic Racism but saying black on black gang violence over the drug trade exists isn't it.
    I've no idea what you're trying to prove here, I've no idea what you mean by Systemic Racism and you refuse to say who "we" are.

    Have a good day
    Coach if you answer my simple question posted at 9.55 I think we clear this up once and for all.
    I've told you elsewhere I don't know the answer, I'm not qualified to make a reasoned argument.

    Perhaps you can tell me the answer
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,798

    I see the Duchess of Sussex has popped up - to remind us that her life matters...

    No doubt she is hoping it gets covered by the Daily Mail.

    No doubt the Daily Mail will be on the case, people who harbour an irrational hatred for this perfectly pleasant young woman seem to feel the need to talk about her every time she opens her mouth.
    I don't see why she shouldn't express her view, she is an African American and has had plenty of experience of racism, not least when she and her husband were hounded out of this country by the press.
    (By a nice coincidence, drinking my tea out of my mug celebrating their wedding this morning).
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    coach said:

    Alistair said:

    coach said:



    Alistair, we're wasting each other's time.

    I just don't understand your angle in this. Pointing out there is a lot of black on black violence over the drug trade doesn't make Systemic Racsim not exist nor does it disprove that Systemic Racsim involved as one of the main root cause of black youths getting involved in the drug trade leading to lots of black on black violence over the drug trade.

    Maybe I'm dense and have missed your brilliant take down of the concept of Systemic Racism but saying black on black gang violence over the drug trade exists isn't it.
    I've no idea what you're trying to prove here, I've no idea what you mean by Systemic Racism and you refuse to say who "we" are.

    Have a good day
    Has no idea what a concept is - spends all morning arguing that it doesn't apply.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,222
    edited June 2020
    DougSeal said:

    Nigelb said:

    TOPPING said:

    Fishing said:

    DougSeal said:



    Similarly we have no problem with James Bond having a Scots, English, Irish or indeed Australian accent, having brown or blue eyes, chest hair or no chest hair, but if a black actor is ever cast in the role we all know how the usual suspects will react.

    Probably the same as if a man played Miss/Mr Marple.
    Or Hugh Grant played Robert Mugabe.

    For clarity, however, I think that James Bond, a fictional character, as someone has noted similarly to Dr Who, could be played by anyone and should be played by Idris Elba and should absofuckinglutely not be played by Tom Hiddleston.
    Definitely agree with you on the latter point.
    10 years ago Idris Elba would have rocked the role but he’s too old now.
    I believe he's expressed similar sentiments, but you never know until you see someone in the role. (My first reaction to the choice of Craig was fairly negative, but he's done pretty well.)

    ...though as I said, I'm certain Hiddleston would be no good.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,773
    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    Fishing said:

    DougSeal said:



    Similarly we have no problem with James Bond having a Scots, English, Irish or indeed Australian accent, having brown or blue eyes, chest hair or no chest hair, but if a black actor is ever cast in the role we all know how the usual suspects will react.

    Probably the same as if a man played Miss/Mr Marple.
    Or Hugh Grant played Robert Mugabe.

    For clarity, however, I think that James Bond, a fictional character, as someone has noted similarly to Dr Who, could be played by anyone and should be played by Idris Elba and should absofuckinglutely not be played by Tom Hiddleston.
    Idris Elba is too old now. Especially since the next one won't start filming for another year or so. Would have been a good shout 5 years ago though.
    He's five years younger than Daniel Craig.
    Depends if you want him to do one film, or 3/4/5. In which case, you need someone who can do the role in ten years from now.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205
    It's becoming clearer coronavirus has taken an immense toll on the PM. Time for him to step down perhaps.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    Fishing said:

    DougSeal said:



    Similarly we have no problem with James Bond having a Scots, English, Irish or indeed Australian accent, having brown or blue eyes, chest hair or no chest hair, but if a black actor is ever cast in the role we all know how the usual suspects will react.

    Probably the same as if a man played Miss/Mr Marple.
    Or Hugh Grant played Robert Mugabe.

    For clarity, however, I think that James Bond, a fictional character, as someone has noted similarly to Dr Who, could be played by anyone and should be played by Idris Elba and should absofuckinglutely not be played by Tom Hiddleston.
    Idris Elba is too old now. Especially since the next one won't start filming for another year or so. Would have been a good shout 5 years ago though.
    He's five years younger than Daniel Craig.
    But 8 or 9 years older than when Daniel Craig started in the role. If we’re getting pedantic about the source material, in one of the novels Fleming mentions Bond would have to retire from the 00 section at 45.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,222
    edited June 2020
    The Mattis statement, in full:

    https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/06/james-mattis-denounces-trump-protests-militarization/612640/
    IN UNION THERE IS STRENGTH
    I have watched this week’s unfolding events, angry and appalled. The words “Equal Justice Under Law” are carved in the pediment of the United States Supreme Court. This is precisely what protesters are rightly demanding. It is a wholesome and unifying demand—one that all of us should be able to get behind. We must not be distracted by a small number of lawbreakers. The protests are defined by tens of thousands of people of conscience who are insisting that we live up to our values—our values as people and our values as a nation.

    When I joined the military, some 50 years ago, I swore an oath to support and defend the Constitution. Never did I dream that troops taking that same oath would be ordered under any circumstance to violate the Constitutional rights of their fellow citizens—much less to provide a bizarre photo op for the elected commander-in-chief, with military leadership standing alongside.
    We must reject any thinking of our cities as a “battlespace” that our uniformed military is called upon to “dominate.” At home, we should use our military only when requested to do so, on very rare occasions, by state governors. Militarizing our response, as we witnessed in Washington, D.C., sets up a conflict—a false conflict—between the military and civilian society. It erodes the moral ground that ensures a trusted bond between men and women in uniform and the society they are sworn to protect, and of which they themselves are a part. Keeping public order rests with civilian state and local leaders who best understand their communities and are answerable to them.

    James Madison wrote in Federalist 14 that “America united with a handful of troops, or without a single soldier, exhibits a more forbidding posture to foreign ambition than America disunited, with a hundred thousand veterans ready for combat.” We do not need to militarize our response to protests. We need to unite around a common purpose. And it starts by guaranteeing that all of us are equal before the law....

  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    Nigelb said:

    DougSeal said:

    Nigelb said:

    TOPPING said:

    Fishing said:

    DougSeal said:



    Similarly we have no problem with James Bond having a Scots, English, Irish or indeed Australian accent, having brown or blue eyes, chest hair or no chest hair, but if a black actor is ever cast in the role we all know how the usual suspects will react.

    Probably the same as if a man played Miss/Mr Marple.
    Or Hugh Grant played Robert Mugabe.

    For clarity, however, I think that James Bond, a fictional character, as someone has noted similarly to Dr Who, could be played by anyone and should be played by Idris Elba and should absofuckinglutely not be played by Tom Hiddleston.
    Definitely agree with you on the latter point.
    10 years ago Idris Elba would have rocked the role but he’s too old now.
    I believe he's expressed similar sentiments, but you never know until you see someone in the role. (My first reaction to the choice of Craig was fairly negative, but he's done pretty well.)

    ...though as I said, I'm certain Hiddleston would be no good.
    He was great in The Night Manager - but different sort of spy.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,313
    This opinion poll is a reflection of the inevitable. People are starting to catch up/realise their PM is completely unsuited to the role, particularly in a crisis - which is when good leadership is required. Step down Johnson, you are making a fool of yourself even by your standards.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,885

    Carnyx said:

    IanB2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Study here finding hearing damage in asymptomatic coronavirus positives -

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7151386/

    As explanation or mitigation for the PM?
    I wonder if he is frightened of being seen wearing a hearing aid, even the little ones behind the ear?
    There is one piece of evidence for the proposition: Boris got backbenchers to stop barracking during PMQs. It is possible this is so he can hear better, but I doubt it. The benches have speakers built into them, and if you look at old PMQs, you can see Theresa May lean towards them. And in any case, the anti-barracking directive came before covid-19.
    Could well be. However Mr J is in his late 50s isn't he? Entirely possible that he is suffering initial hearing loss anyway.

    There is also an issue of discrimination of a voice against the monkey-house cries and howls of Tory MPs. Worse than a party conversation as the speaker is further away.

    I wonder if his responses to press conferences show any hint that he hasn't actually heard the question and is bluffing?
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,240
    MaxPB said:

    I'm surprised that the ratings are as high as they are. The government has been shambolic in a lot of areas.

    Have to wonder how much that has *really* cut through.

    The bottom line is that, as the dust has settled, the UK has done really badly, with a lot more excess deaths than virtually every other European country. But the big news is that the dust is settling. Understandable, but there ought to be a reckoning to come.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,222
    ...Instructions given by the military departments to our troops before the Normandy invasion reminded soldiers that “The Nazi slogan for destroying us…was ‘Divide and Conquer.’ Our American answer is ‘In Union there is Strength.’” We must summon that unity to surmount this crisis—confident that we are better than our politics.

    Donald Trump is the first president in my lifetime who does not try to unite the American people—does not even pretend to try. Instead he tries to divide us. We are witnessing the consequences of three years of this deliberate effort. We are witnessing the consequences of three years without mature leadership. We can unite without him, drawing on the strengths inherent in our civil society. This will not be easy, as the past few days have shown, but we owe it to our fellow citizens; to past generations that bled to defend our promise; and to our children.

    We can come through this trying time stronger, and with a renewed sense of purpose and respect for one another. The pandemic has shown us that it is not only our troops who are willing to offer the ultimate sacrifice for the safety of the community. Americans in hospitals, grocery stores, post offices, and elsewhere have put their lives on the line in order to serve their fellow citizens and their country. We know that we are better than the abuse of executive authority that we witnessed in Lafayette Square. We must reject and hold accountable those in office who would make a mockery of our Constitution. At the same time, we must remember Lincoln’s “better angels,” and listen to them, as we work to unite.

    Only by adopting a new path—which means, in truth, returning to the original path of our founding ideals—will we again be a country admired and respected at home and abroad.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,222
    DougSeal said:

    Nigelb said:

    DougSeal said:

    Nigelb said:

    TOPPING said:

    Fishing said:

    DougSeal said:



    Similarly we have no problem with James Bond having a Scots, English, Irish or indeed Australian accent, having brown or blue eyes, chest hair or no chest hair, but if a black actor is ever cast in the role we all know how the usual suspects will react.

    Probably the same as if a man played Miss/Mr Marple.
    Or Hugh Grant played Robert Mugabe.

    For clarity, however, I think that James Bond, a fictional character, as someone has noted similarly to Dr Who, could be played by anyone and should be played by Idris Elba and should absofuckinglutely not be played by Tom Hiddleston.
    Definitely agree with you on the latter point.
    10 years ago Idris Elba would have rocked the role but he’s too old now.
    I believe he's expressed similar sentiments, but you never know until you see someone in the role. (My first reaction to the choice of Craig was fairly negative, but he's done pretty well.)

    ...though as I said, I'm certain Hiddleston would be no good.
    He was great in The Night Manager - but different sort of spy.
    He was OK.
    Though the series was awful, though. Just really stupid.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    Fishing said:

    DougSeal said:



    Similarly we have no problem with James Bond having a Scots, English, Irish or indeed Australian accent, having brown or blue eyes, chest hair or no chest hair, but if a black actor is ever cast in the role we all know how the usual suspects will react.

    Probably the same as if a man played Miss/Mr Marple.
    Or Hugh Grant played Robert Mugabe.

    For clarity, however, I think that James Bond, a fictional character, as someone has noted similarly to Dr Who, could be played by anyone and should be played by Idris Elba and should absofuckinglutely not be played by Tom Hiddleston.
    Idris Elba is too old now. Especially since the next one won't start filming for another year or so. Would have been a good shout 5 years ago though.
    He's five years younger than Daniel Craig.
    Yes and Daniel Craig is way too old for the role. It's getting to Sean Connery in Never Say Never Again levels of inappropriate oldness for the role.
    Fair enough.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205
    edited June 2020
    Historical epidemiology question

    How many novel global pandemics have only had one wave ?

    That's not rhetorical.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    ..

    Carnyx said:

    Jackson Carlaw, Leader of the Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party. twisting the knife into BoZo’s belly just now on BBC Radio Scotland. He says, repeatedly, that he is “not wholly convinced” by Dominic Cummings’ explanation for his actions.

    Classic code for “the man’s a liar”.

    Astonishingly, Carlaw has not spoken to his boss BoZo in months. They have only exchanged two text messages since The Clown was released from hospital.

    Carlaw sounds like a drowning man, unable to affect either his opponents nor his (supposed) allies.

    The Milton Keynes appointee is a real kick in the groin.

    MK? *googles for land of concrete coos* Ah - now I see. Blood is sure thicker than residence when it comes to Tories. But what a dunt in the baws to the actual Scottish Tories. Remiunds me of the day when the Scottish Office was run by a MP from Weston-Super-Mare IIRC.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-52880226
    I will defer to our actual Scottish posters on this (and we can always rely on Malc for a fair and balanced appraisal of the situation), but right now it looks to me as if the Conservatives are going to get absolutely, utterly, walloped in the Holyrood elections next year. As in a panda-level event.
    I would say Tories in Scotland have solid bedrock of 20%, who are the "British rather than Scottish" crowd. More than panda-level. The Tories have nothing to offer the other 80% however. The Ruth Davidson brand of unionism has been comprehensively trashed by the Brexit Party insurgency, aka the Conservative Party.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    Pulpstar said:

    Historical epidemiology question

    How many novel global pandemics have only had one wave ?

    That's not rhetorical.

    I don't believe SARS is beleived to have had a second wave, globally speaking?
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,805
    edited June 2020
    coach said:

    kjh said:

    Alistair said:

    coach said:

    kjh said:

    coach said:

    kjh said:

    coach said:

    kjh said:

    coach said:

    kjh said:

    coach said:

    Alistair said:

    IanB2 said:

    Interesting to hear the editor of the Guardian say yesterday that they had decided to do a feature comparing the stories of health workers in the UK, US and Australia who had died of Coronavirus, but the Australian Guardian came back and said they didn't have any who had died.

    The reason we have the worst stats is that we are the best at collecting them.

    In regard to the black lives matters march yesterday in the UK, I wonder why people just shrug when almost on a daily basis a black teenager stabs to death another black teenager just becuase of the street that he lives in. Why is there not a march about this, don't these black lives matter?
    Yes, I think you are beginning to understand how systemic racism works.

    BLM is about combating systemic racism.
    Young kids in London stabbing each other is nothing to do with race its to do with drugs
    So why do you think they are predominantly black then?
    No idea mate, just stating a fact
    Yes you do. You didn't state a fact, you stated an opinion. You said it had nothing to do with race. That is an opinion not a fact. The FACT that a disproportionate number are black implies it is related to race.
    It is a fact, you might find it uncomfortable but its undeniable. Talk to the middle class white people who buy the drugs, they know the score.

    And I appreciate you're desperate to call me a racist so just get it over and done with.
    This is weird Do you not know the difference between a fact and an opinion?

    Do you not know what systemic means?
    I really have no idea where you're going with this, but its clear you have very little understanding of the drug supply chain in the UK.

    I know you don't understand where I am going with this. You don't seem to be able to understand the logic. Doesn't it make you think there's an issue with your thinking when several people use the word weird to describe the structure of your argument.

    You are right I know nothing about drug supply. What has that got to do with the argument

    Let me ask you, do you think black people are genetically more likely to be drug dealers or do you think there's another reason?
    I know nothing about genetics and I have no idea why the vast majority of stabbings are drug related and black on black.
    What are you even arguing then?

    I'm saying it is systemic racism is involved. You are saying it isn't but offer no counter argument.
    I'm going to have one more go coach without using the words systemic or genetic.

    Coach do you think that a disproportionate number of black people are involved in drug dealing and gangs because:

    a) it is inherent in being black

    or

    b) because of the environment in which they were brought up in and live?
    I don't know, I'm not qualified to make a reasoned argument.

    What I do know is that too many people who claim to be aware of and concerned by the issues massively contribute to them.
    Re your 2nd para if you are referring to hypocrites who are vocal about solving the problem but buy the drugs then you are undoubtedly correct. Same issue for all problems eg climate change is a classic for hypocrisy.

    Re the question - Very honest of you to say you don't know. The overwhelming evidence is it is b). That is what all the stuff going on at the moment is all about.

    There is little or no evidence it is a). Any evidence that does exist between races is statistically insignificant, especially when you look at a range of behaviours an intelligence between individuals within races.

    However a large number of people believe it is a), based upon no sensible evidence whatsoever. These people are racists.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    DougSeal said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    Fishing said:

    DougSeal said:



    Similarly we have no problem with James Bond having a Scots, English, Irish or indeed Australian accent, having brown or blue eyes, chest hair or no chest hair, but if a black actor is ever cast in the role we all know how the usual suspects will react.

    Probably the same as if a man played Miss/Mr Marple.
    Or Hugh Grant played Robert Mugabe.

    For clarity, however, I think that James Bond, a fictional character, as someone has noted similarly to Dr Who, could be played by anyone and should be played by Idris Elba and should absofuckinglutely not be played by Tom Hiddleston.
    Idris Elba is too old now. Especially since the next one won't start filming for another year or so. Would have been a good shout 5 years ago though.
    He's five years younger than Daniel Craig.
    But 8 or 9 years older than when Daniel Craig started in the role. If we’re getting pedantic about the source material, in one of the novels Fleming mentions Bond would have to retire from the 00 section at 45.
    Michael B Jordan?
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    Nigelb said:

    DougSeal said:

    Nigelb said:

    DougSeal said:

    Nigelb said:

    TOPPING said:

    Fishing said:

    DougSeal said:



    Similarly we have no problem with James Bond having a Scots, English, Irish or indeed Australian accent, having brown or blue eyes, chest hair or no chest hair, but if a black actor is ever cast in the role we all know how the usual suspects will react.

    Probably the same as if a man played Miss/Mr Marple.
    Or Hugh Grant played Robert Mugabe.

    For clarity, however, I think that James Bond, a fictional character, as someone has noted similarly to Dr Who, could be played by anyone and should be played by Idris Elba and should absofuckinglutely not be played by Tom Hiddleston.
    Definitely agree with you on the latter point.
    10 years ago Idris Elba would have rocked the role but he’s too old now.
    I believe he's expressed similar sentiments, but you never know until you see someone in the role. (My first reaction to the choice of Craig was fairly negative, but he's done pretty well.)

    ...though as I said, I'm certain Hiddleston would be no good.
    He was great in The Night Manager - but different sort of spy.
    He was OK.
    Though the series was awful, though. Just really stupid.
    Really? I loved it.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,885
    FF43 said:

    ..

    Carnyx said:

    Jackson Carlaw, Leader of the Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party. twisting the knife into BoZo’s belly just now on BBC Radio Scotland. He says, repeatedly, that he is “not wholly convinced” by Dominic Cummings’ explanation for his actions.

    Classic code for “the man’s a liar”.

    Astonishingly, Carlaw has not spoken to his boss BoZo in months. They have only exchanged two text messages since The Clown was released from hospital.

    Carlaw sounds like a drowning man, unable to affect either his opponents nor his (supposed) allies.

    The Milton Keynes appointee is a real kick in the groin.

    MK? *googles for land of concrete coos* Ah - now I see. Blood is sure thicker than residence when it comes to Tories. But what a dunt in the baws to the actual Scottish Tories. Remiunds me of the day when the Scottish Office was run by a MP from Weston-Super-Mare IIRC.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-52880226
    I will defer to our actual Scottish posters on this (and we can always rely on Malc for a fair and balanced appraisal of the situation), but right now it looks to me as if the Conservatives are going to get absolutely, utterly, walloped in the Holyrood elections next year. As in a panda-level event.
    I would say Tories in Scotland have solid bedrock of 20%, who are the "British rather than Scottish" crowd. More than panda-level. The Tories have nothing to offer the other 80% however. The Ruth Davidson brand of unionism has been comprehensively trashed by the Brexit Party insurgency, aka the Conservative Party.
    And of course it's gerrymandered D'Hondt, not proper British FPTP voting. So yes, not panda level.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    FF43 said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Ah, the long-awaited Brexit dividend: halving the EU's daily deaths from Coronavirus.
    It's also crap. If the UK reported its deaths the same way Spain does, we'd have had just 20 deaths yesterday. See Mr Burns-Murdoch for a full rundown.
    Indeed. here (Spain is nearly as bad; Italy better and France quite a lot better; Germany order of magnitude better):

    https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1267826539619422211
    We now know that many more people were dying of covid in March than was reported at the time.

    I wonder if that information had been available then whether lockdown would have been brought forward a few days.
    The Cheltenham Festival decision was idiotic. And was obviously so even at the time.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    Pulpstar said:

    Historical epidemiology question

    How many novel global pandemics have only had one wave ?

    That's not rhetorical.

    This article may interest you -

    https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/covid-19-epidemic-waves/
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    edited June 2020
    DougSeal said:

    Nigelb said:

    DougSeal said:

    Nigelb said:

    TOPPING said:

    Fishing said:

    DougSeal said:



    Similarly we have no problem with James Bond having a Scots, English, Irish or indeed Australian accent, having brown or blue eyes, chest hair or no chest hair, but if a black actor is ever cast in the role we all know how the usual suspects will react.

    Probably the same as if a man played Miss/Mr Marple.
    Or Hugh Grant played Robert Mugabe.

    For clarity, however, I think that James Bond, a fictional character, as someone has noted similarly to Dr Who, could be played by anyone and should be played by Idris Elba and should absofuckinglutely not be played by Tom Hiddleston.
    Definitely agree with you on the latter point.
    10 years ago Idris Elba would have rocked the role but he’s too old now.
    I believe he's expressed similar sentiments, but you never know until you see someone in the role. (My first reaction to the choice of Craig was fairly negative, but he's done pretty well.)

    ...though as I said, I'm certain Hiddleston would be no good.
    He was great in The Night Manager - but different sort of spy.
    He has become a bit like Emma Thompson for me - always plays Tom Hiddleston.

    Edit: and no Emma Thompson doesn't always play Tom Hiddleson, she always plays Emma Thompson.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,599
    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    Fishing said:

    DougSeal said:



    Similarly we have no problem with James Bond having a Scots, English, Irish or indeed Australian accent, having brown or blue eyes, chest hair or no chest hair, but if a black actor is ever cast in the role we all know how the usual suspects will react.

    Probably the same as if a man played Miss/Mr Marple.
    Or Hugh Grant played Robert Mugabe.

    For clarity, however, I think that James Bond, a fictional character, as someone has noted similarly to Dr Who, could be played by anyone and should be played by Idris Elba and should absofuckinglutely not be played by Tom Hiddleston.
    Idris Elba is too old now. Especially since the next one won't start filming for another year or so. Would have been a good shout 5 years ago though.
    He's five years younger than Daniel Craig.
    Yes and Daniel Craig is way too old for the role. It's getting to Sean Connery in Never Say Never Again levels of inappropriate oldness for the role.
    Craig is 52, according to the wiki. I guess they need to find a replacement who’s 35 or so.
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,239
    Carnyx said:

    FF43 said:

    ..

    Carnyx said:

    Jackson Carlaw, Leader of the Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party. twisting the knife into BoZo’s belly just now on BBC Radio Scotland. He says, repeatedly, that he is “not wholly convinced” by Dominic Cummings’ explanation for his actions.

    Classic code for “the man’s a liar”.

    Astonishingly, Carlaw has not spoken to his boss BoZo in months. They have only exchanged two text messages since The Clown was released from hospital.

    Carlaw sounds like a drowning man, unable to affect either his opponents nor his (supposed) allies.

    The Milton Keynes appointee is a real kick in the groin.

    MK? *googles for land of concrete coos* Ah - now I see. Blood is sure thicker than residence when it comes to Tories. But what a dunt in the baws to the actual Scottish Tories. Remiunds me of the day when the Scottish Office was run by a MP from Weston-Super-Mare IIRC.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-52880226
    I will defer to our actual Scottish posters on this (and we can always rely on Malc for a fair and balanced appraisal of the situation), but right now it looks to me as if the Conservatives are going to get absolutely, utterly, walloped in the Holyrood elections next year. As in a panda-level event.
    I would say Tories in Scotland have solid bedrock of 20%, who are the "British rather than Scottish" crowd. More than panda-level. The Tories have nothing to offer the other 80% however. The Ruth Davidson brand of unionism has been comprehensively trashed by the Brexit Party insurgency, aka the Conservative Party.
    And of course it's gerrymandered D'Hondt, not proper British FPTP voting. So yes, not panda level.
    There would be a lovely irony in the Conservatives' skin being saved by PR.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,434
    edited June 2020

    Pulpstar said:

    Historical epidemiology question

    How many novel global pandemics have only had one wave ?

    That's not rhetorical.

    I don't believe SARS is beleived to have had a second wave, globally speaking?
    Did SARS have a first wave in terms of being a global pandemic?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,885

    Carnyx said:

    FF43 said:

    ..

    Carnyx said:

    Jackson Carlaw, Leader of the Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party. twisting the knife into BoZo’s belly just now on BBC Radio Scotland. He says, repeatedly, that he is “not wholly convinced” by Dominic Cummings’ explanation for his actions.

    Classic code for “the man’s a liar”.

    Astonishingly, Carlaw has not spoken to his boss BoZo in months. They have only exchanged two text messages since The Clown was released from hospital.

    Carlaw sounds like a drowning man, unable to affect either his opponents nor his (supposed) allies.

    The Milton Keynes appointee is a real kick in the groin.

    MK? *googles for land of concrete coos* Ah - now I see. Blood is sure thicker than residence when it comes to Tories. But what a dunt in the baws to the actual Scottish Tories. Remiunds me of the day when the Scottish Office was run by a MP from Weston-Super-Mare IIRC.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-52880226
    I will defer to our actual Scottish posters on this (and we can always rely on Malc for a fair and balanced appraisal of the situation), but right now it looks to me as if the Conservatives are going to get absolutely, utterly, walloped in the Holyrood elections next year. As in a panda-level event.
    I would say Tories in Scotland have solid bedrock of 20%, who are the "British rather than Scottish" crowd. More than panda-level. The Tories have nothing to offer the other 80% however. The Ruth Davidson brand of unionism has been comprehensively trashed by the Brexit Party insurgency, aka the Conservative Party.
    And of course it's gerrymandered D'Hondt, not proper British FPTP voting. So yes, not panda level.
    There would be a lovely irony in the Conservatives' skin being saved by PR.
    Already has been, indeed - there have been times with no Tory MP or at least fewer than the pandas at Corstorphine Hill.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992

    FF43 said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Ah, the long-awaited Brexit dividend: halving the EU's daily deaths from Coronavirus.
    It's also crap. If the UK reported its deaths the same way Spain does, we'd have had just 20 deaths yesterday. See Mr Burns-Murdoch for a full rundown.
    Indeed. here (Spain is nearly as bad; Italy better and France quite a lot better; Germany order of magnitude better):

    https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1267826539619422211
    We now know that many more people were dying of covid in March than was reported at the time.

    I wonder if that information had been available then whether lockdown would have been brought forward a few days.
    The Cheltenham Festival decision was idiotic. And was obviously so even at the time.
    As was the Central Line decision.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Carnyx said:

    Jackson Carlaw, Leader of the Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party. twisting the knife into BoZo’s belly just now on BBC Radio Scotland. He says, repeatedly, that he is “not wholly convinced” by Dominic Cummings’ explanation for his actions.

    Classic code for “the man’s a liar”.

    Astonishingly, Carlaw has not spoken to his boss BoZo in months. They have only exchanged two text messages since The Clown was released from hospital.

    Carlaw sounds like a drowning man, unable to affect either his opponents nor his (supposed) allies.

    The Milton Keynes appointee is a real kick in the groin.

    MK? *googles for land of concrete coos* Ah - now I see. Blood is sure thicker than residence when it comes to Tories. But what a dunt in the baws to the actual Scottish Tories. Remiunds me of the day when the Scottish Office was run by a MP from Weston-Super-Mare IIRC.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-52880226
    There’s only six of them, and they are all incapable of dealing with even the simplest of tasks.

    The problem is only going to get worse as the SCons fail to recruit talented youngsters.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,885

    Carnyx said:

    FF43 said:

    ..

    Carnyx said:

    Jackson Carlaw, Leader of the Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party. twisting the knife into BoZo’s belly just now on BBC Radio Scotland. He says, repeatedly, that he is “not wholly convinced” by Dominic Cummings’ explanation for his actions.

    Classic code for “the man’s a liar”.

    Astonishingly, Carlaw has not spoken to his boss BoZo in months. They have only exchanged two text messages since The Clown was released from hospital.

    Carlaw sounds like a drowning man, unable to affect either his opponents nor his (supposed) allies.

    The Milton Keynes appointee is a real kick in the groin.

    MK? *googles for land of concrete coos* Ah - now I see. Blood is sure thicker than residence when it comes to Tories. But what a dunt in the baws to the actual Scottish Tories. Remiunds me of the day when the Scottish Office was run by a MP from Weston-Super-Mare IIRC.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-52880226
    I will defer to our actual Scottish posters on this (and we can always rely on Malc for a fair and balanced appraisal of the situation), but right now it looks to me as if the Conservatives are going to get absolutely, utterly, walloped in the Holyrood elections next year. As in a panda-level event.
    I would say Tories in Scotland have solid bedrock of 20%, who are the "British rather than Scottish" crowd. More than panda-level. The Tories have nothing to offer the other 80% however. The Ruth Davidson brand of unionism has been comprehensively trashed by the Brexit Party insurgency, aka the Conservative Party.
    And of course it's gerrymandered D'Hondt, not proper British FPTP voting. So yes, not panda level.
    There would be a lovely irony in the Conservatives' skin being saved by PR.
    And of course also by a PR system dreamt up by Labour and the LDs.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,298
    This popped up for me on BBC. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52913066
    Am I right in thinking the reason accountants suggest a limited company is because you end up paying less tax?
    I wonder whether people will be able to sue accountants for this kind of advice, it's clearly been very detrimental to her...
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    The armed forces are now under strength by 8.4% (up from 7.0%). Bravo zulu, tories, bravo zulu.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/quarterly-service-personnel-statistics-2020/quarterly-service-personnel-statistics-1-april-2020

    At this rate I am going to have to drive to Barnard Castle to test if I can still see well enough to fly a Lynx. I might be getting a call.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    So much for the rain ramped (as per) by the PB Tea Leaf forecasters.

    As I said a few days back, we'll be lucky to get 3mm down here.

    I was right – again! :)
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,675
    rkrkrk said:

    This popped up for me on BBC. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52913066
    Am I right in thinking the reason accountants suggest a limited company is because you end up paying less tax?
    I wonder whether people will be able to sue accountants for this kind of advice, it's clearly been very detrimental to her...

    I thought the limited liability of being a company was also a major advantage than of being a sole trader etc.

  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,729

    This opinion poll is a reflection of the inevitable. People are starting to catch up/realise their PM is completely unsuited to the role, particularly in a crisis - which is when good leadership is required. Step down Johnson, you are making a fool of yourself even by your standards.

    Were you saying that sort of thing when Brown was PM? You should have been......
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,249
    TOPPING said:

    FF43 said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Ah, the long-awaited Brexit dividend: halving the EU's daily deaths from Coronavirus.
    It's also crap. If the UK reported its deaths the same way Spain does, we'd have had just 20 deaths yesterday. See Mr Burns-Murdoch for a full rundown.
    Indeed. here (Spain is nearly as bad; Italy better and France quite a lot better; Germany order of magnitude better):

    https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1267826539619422211
    We now know that many more people were dying of covid in March than was reported at the time.

    I wonder if that information had been available then whether lockdown would have been brought forward a few days.
    The Cheltenham Festival decision was idiotic. And was obviously so even at the time.
    As was the Central Line decision.
    Presumably this gentleman has come proof that all the statistics are comparable such that he can draw his conclusions.

    I'd say its meaningless for at least another year.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    Dura_Ace said:

    The armed forces are now under strength by 8.4% (up from 7.0%). Bravo zulu, tories, bravo zulu.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/quarterly-service-personnel-statistics-2020/quarterly-service-personnel-statistics-1-april-2020

    At this rate I am going to have to drive to Barnard Castle to test if I can still see well enough to fly a Lynx. I might be getting a call.

    Don't become a tragic statistic.

    https://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/health/16-injured-in-this-weekends-eye-tests-20200601197064

  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    rkrkrk said:

    This popped up for me on BBC. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52913066
    Am I right in thinking the reason accountants suggest a limited company is because you end up paying less tax?
    I wonder whether people will be able to sue accountants for this kind of advice, it's clearly been very detrimental to her...

    No, the main reason would be the limited liability. If the business goes bust you are not personally on the hook for any debts.
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,316
    edited June 2020
    rkrkrk said:

    This popped up for me on BBC. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52913066
    Am I right in thinking the reason accountants suggest a limited company is because you end up paying less tax?
    I wonder whether people will be able to sue accountants for this kind of advice, it's clearly been very detrimental to her...

    If you set up as a limited company, you can effectively choose to take your income as either salary or dividends (assuming you don’t fall under IR35; a beautician working with multiple clients certainly wouldn’t). If you took it as salary, then under the government rules it’s permissible to furlough yourself & be paid by the government scheme. Any income you took as dividends doesn’t count.

    A good accountant will have told you to at least pay yourself enough salary to qualify for accrued pension rights etc, but may people, especially those on relatively low incomes might have looked at the tax impact & taken it all as dividends instead.
  • coachcoach Posts: 250
    kjh said:

    coach said:

    kjh said:

    Alistair said:

    coach said:

    kjh said:

    coach said:

    kjh said:

    coach said:

    kjh said:

    coach said:

    kjh said:

    coach said:

    Alistair said:

    IanB2 said:

    Interesting to hear the editor of the Guardian say yesterday that they had decided to do a feature comparing the stories of health workers in the UK, US and Australia who had died of Coronavirus, but the Australian Guardian came back and said they didn't have any who had died.

    The reason we have the worst stats is that we are the best at collecting them.

    In regard to the black lives matters march yesterday in the UK, I wonder why people just shrug when almost on a daily basis a black teenager stabs to death another black teenager just becuase of the street that he lives in. Why is there not a march about this, don't these black lives matter?
    Yes, I think you are beginning to understand how systemic racism works.

    BLM is about combating systemic racism.
    Young kids in London stabbing each other is nothing to do with race its to do with drugs
    So why do you think they are predominantly black then?
    No idea mate, just stating a fact
    Yes you do. You didn't state a fact, you stated an opinion. You said it had nothing to do with race. That is an opinion not a fact. The FACT that a disproportionate number are black implies it is related to race.
    It is a fact, you might find it uncomfortable but its undeniable. Talk to the middle class white people who buy the drugs, they know the score.

    And I appreciate you're desperate to call me a racist so just get it over and done with.
    This is weird Do you not know the difference between a fact and an opinion?

    Do you not know what systemic means?
    I really have no idea where you're going with this, but its clear you have very little understanding of the drug supply chain in the UK.

    I know you don't understand where I am going with this. You don't seem to be able to understand the logic. Doesn't it make you think there's an issue with your thinking when several people use the word weird to describe the structure of your argument.

    You are right I know nothing about drug supply. What has that got to do with the argument

    Let me ask you, do you think black people are genetically more likely to be drug dealers or do you think there's another reason?
    I know nothing about genetics and I have no idea why the vast majority of stabbings are drug related and black on black.
    What are you even arguing then?

    I'm saying it is systemic racism is involved. You are saying it isn't but offer no counter argument.
    I'm going to have one more go coach without using the words systemic or genetic.

    Coach do you think that a disproportionate number of black people are involved in drug dealing and gangs because:

    a) it is inherent in being black

    or

    b) because of the environment in which they were brought up in and live?
    I don't know, I'm not qualified to make a reasoned argument.

    What I do know is that too many people who claim to be aware of and concerned by the issues massively contribute to them.
    Re your 2nd para if you are referring to hypocrites who are vocal about solving the problem but buy the drugs then you are undoubtedly correct. Same issue for all problems eg climate change is a classic for hypocrisy.

    Re the question - Very honest of you to say you don't know. The overwhelming evidence is it is b). That is what all the stuff going on at the moment is all about.

    There is little or no evidence it is a). Any evidence that does exist between races is statistically insignificant, especially when you look at a range of behaviours an intelligence between individuals within races.

    However a large number of people believe it is a), based upon no sensible evidence whatsoever. These people are racists.
    Most conversations about nature and nurture don't get very far.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226
    @Nigelb

    That hit my brain as the "Maitlis Statement".

    Got as far as "When I joined the military, 50 years ago" before I realized it could not be Emily.

    What the mind can do. :smile:
  • Gary_BurtonGary_Burton Posts: 737
    FF43 said:

    ..

    Carnyx said:

    Jackson Carlaw, Leader of the Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party. twisting the knife into BoZo’s belly just now on BBC Radio Scotland. He says, repeatedly, that he is “not wholly convinced” by Dominic Cummings’ explanation for his actions.

    Classic code for “the man’s a liar”.

    Astonishingly, Carlaw has not spoken to his boss BoZo in months. They have only exchanged two text messages since The Clown was released from hospital.

    Carlaw sounds like a drowning man, unable to affect either his opponents nor his (supposed) allies.

    The Milton Keynes appointee is a real kick in the groin.

    MK? *googles for land of concrete coos* Ah - now I see. Blood is sure thicker than residence when it comes to Tories. But what a dunt in the baws to the actual Scottish Tories. Remiunds me of the day when the Scottish Office was run by a MP from Weston-Super-Mare IIRC.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-52880226
    I will defer to our actual Scottish posters on this (and we can always rely on Malc for a fair and balanced appraisal of the situation), but right now it looks to me as if the Conservatives are going to get absolutely, utterly, walloped in the Holyrood elections next year. As in a panda-level event.
    I would say Tories in Scotland have solid bedrock of 20%, who are the "British rather than Scottish" crowd. More than panda-level. The Tories have nothing to offer the other 80% however. The Ruth Davidson brand of unionism has been comprehensively trashed by the Brexit Party insurgency, aka the Conservative Party.
    I would say it's closer to 25% as the Tories still got 25.1% at the general election in Scotland (only down 3.5%) even with a collapse in their vote in Edinburgh. Mainly in Edinburgh were voters voting for Ruth Davidson rather than the Tories in 2016 and to a lesser extent in 2017 so the Tories will probably go backwards in Edinburgh on the list vote but offset it with leave voters (and elderly remain voters who dislike the SNP more than Johnson) elsewhere and still end up with 22-26% overall in next years Scottish election.

    Of course 2017 was probably their high watermark in seats in Westminster elections which probably won't be repeated for a while so Ruth Davidson still got out at the right time.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,805
    Once more I recommend 'More or Less' from yesterday. It does have interesting stuff on other stuff other than C19 testing and actually backed the Govt up yesterday on one of the charges about manipulating the death figures (they weren't).

    However hopefully those on here who were defending the Govt testing numbers now don't, following the recent interventions highlighting the misrepresentations.

    HOWEVER More or Less picked up another misrepresentation yesterday that hasn't been highlighted. The Govt is now including antibody tests in the testing capability numbers, so mixing apples with pears so it can claim the 200,000.

    And how many were included and how many done?

    It added 40,000 to the total and the number done was 0. Yes that is right, not 1.
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,264

    So much for the rain ramped (as per) by the PB Tea Leaf forecasters.

    As I said a few days back, we'll be lucky to get 3mm down here.

    I was right – again! :)

    Just wet enough to drive the fair weather ramblers back into their hutches, but not too much to spoil a 10-mile walk.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992

    TOPPING said:

    I see the Duchess of Sussex has popped up - to remind us that her life matters...

    No doubt she is hoping it gets covered by the Daily Mail.

    Oh there you are.

    I had a question for you recently. Still hearing chaffinches although less so now. Plenty of whitethroats, although am I imagining that they are also lessening? Plus finally the yellowhammers are finding their voices. New songs? Skylarks and wrens.

    Does that accord with breeing/migration patterns? What should I be looking (listening) our for?
    The Whitethroats should be busy feeding their first brood. They should get a second one away - might do a bit of territorial song between the two. Chaffinches have been more vocal here too. No second brood for them. Great Tits are quite noisy at the moment, presumably to keep their flock of youngsters together. And if you are lucky to have trees around you, chance of the incessent squeaking through the night of young Tawny Owls. This sleepy chap was sat about fifteen feet from the back door.


    That is fantastic!

    No so far not heard them although I will listen out and do some homework to see if I'm hearing but not identifying. There is a pair of buzzards swooping hither and thither, which is always fantastic to see, especially if they emerge from a hedge and slowly lollop away from you, perhaps with a field mouse in their claws. The biggest bird I've seen close up.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,405
    edited June 2020
    Phil said:

    rkrkrk said:

    This popped up for me on BBC. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52913066
    Am I right in thinking the reason accountants suggest a limited company is because you end up paying less tax?
    I wonder whether people will be able to sue accountants for this kind of advice, it's clearly been very detrimental to her...

    If you set up as a limited company, you can effectively choose to take your income as either salary or dividends (assuming you don’t fall under IR35; a beautician working with multiple clients certainly wouldn’t). If you took it as salary, then under the government rules it’s permissible to furlough yourself & be paid by the government scheme. Any income you took as dividends doesn’t count.

    A good accountant will have told you to at least pay yourself enough salary to qualify for accrued pension rights etc, but may people, especially those on relatively low incomes might have looked at the tax impact & taken it all as dividends instead.
    Nope, if you want things to be tax efficient you take out enough to qualify for a pension as you qualify it just as you hit the point you start paying NI. I think the figure is round about £680 or so, so on the 80% scheme that's just under / over £500 a month.

    The reason why a lot of people will use limited companies is actually more about personal liability. With a limited company involved it requires a far greater level of screw up before you become personal liable and risk your home.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226

    DougSeal said:

    coach said:

    eek said:

    coach said:

    Alistair said:

    IanB2 said:

    Interesting to hear the editor of the Guardian say yesterday that they had decided to do a feature comparing the stories of health workers in the UK, US and Australia who had died of Coronavirus, but the Australian Guardian came back and said they didn't have any who had died.

    The reason we have the worst stats is that we are the best at collecting them.

    In regard to the black lives matters march yesterday in the UK, I wonder why people just shrug when almost on a daily basis a black teenager stabs to death another black teenager just becuase of the street that he lives in. Why is there not a march about this, don't these black lives matter?
    Yes, I think you are beginning to understand how systemic racism works.

    BLM is about combating systemic racism.
    Young kids in London stabbing each other is nothing to do with race its to do with drugs
    And drug dealing is usually related to lack of role models and other opportunities.

    Which sadly is a far greater issue for Black males than any other group (including white working class males)
    Correct, and has been for decades. I'm not sure how you persuade young black people to take parenthood more seriously.
    Here’s an example of everyday racism on my part regarding cultural depictions. A few months ago I watched the Mary Queen of Scots movie with Saoirse Ronan. It is very unlikely that Mary spoke with a heavy Scots accent as she was portrayed, having spent virtually all her childhood in France, and I knew that. However, halfway through I noticed I was less bothered by how Mary sounded than how Thomas Randolph, who was played by black actor Adrian Lester, looked. Neither was I as bothered that Margot Robbie is much much better looking than the historical Elizabeth I. My brain had been trained to ignore those historical inaccuracies, and the many others in the film, save for the amount of melanin in one actor’s skin. That’s systemic racism showing in someone who tries really really hard not to be racist.

    Similarly we have no problem with James Bond having a Scots, English, Irish or indeed Australian accent, having brown or blue eyes, chest hair or no chest hair, but if a black actor is ever cast in the role we all know how the usual suspects will react.
    James Bond has been a British English character with a long family history going back to the Normans as far as I recall (family motto) and therefore white. All the actors have played him as such (with greater or lesser success on the accent front ). It is fiction and it is therefore of course fine for him to become a black character, or a woman, but it would be a bigger divergence from the source material than we've yet seen. Personally, I'd prefer us to create new cultural icons who happen to be black.
    James Bond has always to a lesser or greater degree been somewhat removed or not paid much attention to, the source material, and the 'original' character.

    I see no issue with a black James Bond at all. Just like Doctor Who, it's a character which has changed time and time again, and new things brought to it by each character, so anything new and interesting should be welcomed.
    A non-white Bond is fine so long as it's done with integrity. No gimmicks.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,608
    Dura_Ace said:

    The armed forces are now under strength by 8.4% (up from 7.0%). Bravo zulu, tories, bravo zulu.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/quarterly-service-personnel-statistics-2020/quarterly-service-personnel-statistics-1-april-2020

    At this rate I am going to have to drive to Barnard Castle to test if I can still see well enough to fly a Lynx. I might be getting a call.

    Taking the tuk-tuk?
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,313
    Alistair said:

    rkrkrk said:

    This popped up for me on BBC. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52913066
    Am I right in thinking the reason accountants suggest a limited company is because you end up paying less tax?
    I wonder whether people will be able to sue accountants for this kind of advice, it's clearly been very detrimental to her...

    No, the main reason would be the limited liability. If the business goes bust you are not personally on the hook for any debts.
    Partly true. Most debts of any significance (such as bank loans) are only offered with personal guarantees attached. Most do it as a way of paying less tax, most particularly national insurance on dividend payments. The advantages are pretty marginal these days.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,405
    edited June 2020

    Alistair said:

    rkrkrk said:

    This popped up for me on BBC. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52913066
    Am I right in thinking the reason accountants suggest a limited company is because you end up paying less tax?
    I wonder whether people will be able to sue accountants for this kind of advice, it's clearly been very detrimental to her...

    No, the main reason would be the limited liability. If the business goes bust you are not personally on the hook for any debts.
    Partly true. Most debts of any significance (such as bank loans) are only offered with personal guarantees attached. Most do it as a way of paying less tax, most particularly national insurance on dividend payments. The advantages are pretty marginal these days.
    I don't think debt is what most people are worried about, in my case it's a screw up that ends up closing Heathrow say for a few hours. In that example the client requires £10m of professional indemnity insurance and I would prefer the argument to not feature me and my house at any point.

    Also the agencies Act 1978 stops contractors working via agencies as self employed people - so they ended up using Limited Companies. And until Gordon Brown screwed the tax system up back in the early 2000's or so there was very little benefit in using a limited company.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226
    Sandpit said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    Fishing said:

    DougSeal said:



    Similarly we have no problem with James Bond having a Scots, English, Irish or indeed Australian accent, having brown or blue eyes, chest hair or no chest hair, but if a black actor is ever cast in the role we all know how the usual suspects will react.

    Probably the same as if a man played Miss/Mr Marple.
    Or Hugh Grant played Robert Mugabe.

    For clarity, however, I think that James Bond, a fictional character, as someone has noted similarly to Dr Who, could be played by anyone and should be played by Idris Elba and should absofuckinglutely not be played by Tom Hiddleston.
    Idris Elba is too old now. Especially since the next one won't start filming for another year or so. Would have been a good shout 5 years ago though.
    He's five years younger than Daniel Craig.
    Yes and Daniel Craig is way too old for the role. It's getting to Sean Connery in Never Say Never Again levels of inappropriate oldness for the role.
    Craig is 52, according to the wiki. I guess they need to find a replacement who’s 35 or so.
    If you want to stay true to the spirit of it Bond cannot be over 40. He smoked 100 (untipped high tar) cigarettes a day and would have been wheezing pretty bad by then. Certainly insufficient puff to be battling Blofeld or chasing girls.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,222
    kinabalu said:

    @Nigelb

    That hit my brain as the "Maitlis Statement".

    Got as far as "When I joined the military, 50 years ago" before I realized it could not be Emily...:

    She's aged well.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,313
    kinabalu said:

    DougSeal said:

    coach said:

    eek said:

    coach said:

    Alistair said:

    IanB2 said:

    Interesting to hear the editor of the Guardian say yesterday that they had decided to do a feature comparing the stories of health workers in the UK, US and Australia who had died of Coronavirus, but the Australian Guardian came back and said they didn't have any who had died.

    The reason we have the worst stats is that we are the best at collecting them.

    In regard to the black lives matters march yesterday in the UK, I wonder why people just shrug when almost on a daily basis a black teenager stabs to death another black teenager just becuase of the street that he lives in. Why is there not a march about this, don't these black lives matter?
    Yes, I think you are beginning to understand how systemic racism works.

    BLM is about combating systemic racism.
    Young kids in London stabbing each other is nothing to do with race its to do with drugs
    And drug dealing is usually related to lack of role models and other opportunities.

    Which sadly is a far greater issue for Black males than any other group (including white working class males)
    Correct, and has been for decades. I'm not sure how you persuade young black people to take parenthood more seriously.
    Here’s an example of everyday racism on my part regarding cultural depictions. A few months ago I watched the Mary Queen of Scots movie with Saoirse Ronan. It is very unlikely that Mary spoke with a heavy Scots accent as she was portrayed, having spent virtually all her childhood in France, and I knew that. However, halfway through I noticed I was less bothered by how Mary sounded than how Thomas Randolph, who was played by black actor Adrian Lester, looked. Neither was I as bothered that Margot Robbie is much much better looking than the historical Elizabeth I. My brain had been trained to ignore those historical inaccuracies, and the many others in the film, save for the amount of melanin in one actor’s skin. That’s systemic racism showing in someone who tries really really hard not to be racist.

    Similarly we have no problem with James Bond having a Scots, English, Irish or indeed Australian accent, having brown or blue eyes, chest hair or no chest hair, but if a black actor is ever cast in the role we all know how the usual suspects will react.
    James Bond has been a British English character with a long family history going back to the Normans as far as I recall (family motto) and therefore white. All the actors have played him as such (with greater or lesser success on the accent front ). It is fiction and it is therefore of course fine for him to become a black character, or a woman, but it would be a bigger divergence from the source material than we've yet seen. Personally, I'd prefer us to create new cultural icons who happen to be black.
    James Bond has always to a lesser or greater degree been somewhat removed or not paid much attention to, the source material, and the 'original' character.

    I see no issue with a black James Bond at all. Just like Doctor Who, it's a character which has changed time and time again, and new things brought to it by each character, so anything new and interesting should be welcomed.
    A non-white Bond is fine so long as it's done with integrity. No gimmicks.
    As I understand it James Bond is meant to have been of aristocratic Scottish heritage. As I am not aware of any Scottish aristocratic people who also have black heritage (waiting to be corrected here!) I therefore (perhaps unpolitically correctly) think that having a black actor play JB is about as silly as having a white actor play Barak Obama.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    DougSeal said:

    coach said:

    eek said:

    coach said:

    Alistair said:

    IanB2 said:

    Interesting to hear the editor of the Guardian say yesterday that they had decided to do a feature comparing the stories of health workers in the UK, US and Australia who had died of Coronavirus, but the Australian Guardian came back and said they didn't have any who had died.

    The reason we have the worst stats is that we are the best at collecting them.

    In regard to the black lives matters march yesterday in the UK, I wonder why people just shrug when almost on a daily basis a black teenager stabs to death another black teenager just becuase of the street that he lives in. Why is there not a march about this, don't these black lives matter?
    Yes, I think you are beginning to understand how systemic racism works.

    BLM is about combating systemic racism.
    Young kids in London stabbing each other is nothing to do with race its to do with drugs
    And drug dealing is usually related to lack of role models and other opportunities.

    Which sadly is a far greater issue for Black males than any other group (including white working class males)
    Correct, and has been for decades. I'm not sure how you persuade young black people to take parenthood more seriously.
    Here’s an example of everyday racism on my part regarding cultural depictions. A few months ago I watched the Mary Queen of Scots movie with Saoirse Ronan. It is very unlikely that Mary spoke with a heavy Scots accent as she was portrayed, having spent virtually all her childhood in France, and I knew that. However, halfway through I noticed I was less bothered by how Mary sounded than how Thomas Randolph, who was played by black actor Adrian Lester, looked. Neither was I as bothered that Margot Robbie is much much better looking than the historical Elizabeth I. My brain had been trained to ignore those historical inaccuracies, and the many others in the film, save for the amount of melanin in one actor’s skin. That’s systemic racism showing in someone who tries really really hard not to be racist.

    Similarly we have no problem with James Bond having a Scots, English, Irish or indeed Australian accent, having brown or blue eyes, chest hair or no chest hair, but if a black actor is ever cast in the role we all know how the usual suspects will react.
    We are all victims of our childhood. When I was young there was a sitcom called "Love Thy Neighbour" which would probably land the producers in jail these days. The N word was used a plenty. Racist expressions were common and used as everyday expressions. I grew up with that - it was normal.

    Fast forward some years later to when life has shown just how wrong and abhorrent those things were and they still haunt me. I made sure my own children were not subjected to those "aphorisms".
    My childhood favourite record was called "Black Sambo" about a little black boy who outwits a tiger by getting to chase its own tail round and round until it gets so fast it turns into butter. Clearly "Black Sambo" is the hero and outsmarts the tiger - but that along with "Golly" on Robinsons marmalade (I think I even had a "Golly" soft toy along "teddy") are clearly based on horribly outdated ideas.

    One bit of "colour blind" casting that paid off brilliantly recently was Dev Patel as David Copperfield - sadly on Amazon this brilliant film - a joy from start to finish - has been downrated because of that casting. As the director said, simply, "Dev was the best actor for the role" - and he was.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,599

    rkrkrk said:

    This popped up for me on BBC. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52913066
    Am I right in thinking the reason accountants suggest a limited company is because you end up paying less tax?
    I wonder whether people will be able to sue accountants for this kind of advice, it's clearly been very detrimental to her...

    I thought the limited liability of being a company was also a major advantage than of being a sole trader etc.
    That account doesn’t read right.

    She closed the company, but can’t pay her office rent, she spent £60k on equipment, but has no assets, her turnover was £20k a month but she paid herself £500...
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,313

    DougSeal said:

    coach said:

    eek said:

    coach said:

    Alistair said:

    IanB2 said:

    Interesting to hear the editor of the Guardian say yesterday that they had decided to do a feature comparing the stories of health workers in the UK, US and Australia who had died of Coronavirus, but the Australian Guardian came back and said they didn't have any who had died.

    The reason we have the worst stats is that we are the best at collecting them.

    In regard to the black lives matters march yesterday in the UK, I wonder why people just shrug when almost on a daily basis a black teenager stabs to death another black teenager just becuase of the street that he lives in. Why is there not a march about this, don't these black lives matter?
    Yes, I think you are beginning to understand how systemic racism works.

    BLM is about combating systemic racism.
    Young kids in London stabbing each other is nothing to do with race its to do with drugs
    And drug dealing is usually related to lack of role models and other opportunities.

    Which sadly is a far greater issue for Black males than any other group (including white working class males)
    Correct, and has been for decades. I'm not sure how you persuade young black people to take parenthood more seriously.
    Here’s an example of everyday racism on my part regarding cultural depictions. A few months ago I watched the Mary Queen of Scots movie with Saoirse Ronan. It is very unlikely that Mary spoke with a heavy Scots accent as she was portrayed, having spent virtually all her childhood in France, and I knew that. However, halfway through I noticed I was less bothered by how Mary sounded than how Thomas Randolph, who was played by black actor Adrian Lester, looked. Neither was I as bothered that Margot Robbie is much much better looking than the historical Elizabeth I. My brain had been trained to ignore those historical inaccuracies, and the many others in the film, save for the amount of melanin in one actor’s skin. That’s systemic racism showing in someone who tries really really hard not to be racist.

    Similarly we have no problem with James Bond having a Scots, English, Irish or indeed Australian accent, having brown or blue eyes, chest hair or no chest hair, but if a black actor is ever cast in the role we all know how the usual suspects will react.
    We are all victims of our childhood. When I was young there was a sitcom called "Love Thy Neighbour" which would probably land the producers in jail these days. The N word was used a plenty. Racist expressions were common and used as everyday expressions. I grew up with that - it was normal.

    Fast forward some years later to when life has shown just how wrong and abhorrent those things were and they still haunt me. I made sure my own children were not subjected to those "aphorisms".
    My childhood favourite record was called "Black Sambo" about a little black boy who outwits a tiger by getting to chase its own tail round and round until it gets so fast it turns into butter. Clearly "Black Sambo" is the hero and outsmarts the tiger - but that along with "Golly" on Robinsons marmalade (I think I even had a "Golly" soft toy along "teddy") are clearly based on horribly outdated ideas.

    One bit of "colour blind" casting that paid off brilliantly recently was Dev Patel as David Copperfield - sadly on Amazon this brilliant film - a joy from start to finish - has been downrated because of that casting. As the director said, simply, "Dev was the best actor for the role" - and he was.
    Love Thy Neighbour was meant to be a satire that showed racists to be idiots. Sadly the idiots who are racists enjoyed it more than those who were not.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    edited June 2020

    kinabalu said:

    DougSeal said:

    coach said:

    eek said:

    coach said:

    Alistair said:

    IanB2 said:

    Interesting to hear the editor of the Guardian say yesterday that they had decided to do a feature comparing the stories of health workers in the UK, US and Australia who had died of Coronavirus, but the Australian Guardian came back and said they didn't have any who had died.

    The reason we have the worst stats is that we are the best at collecting them.

    In regard to the black lives matters march yesterday in the UK, I wonder why people just shrug when almost on a daily basis a black teenager stabs to death another black teenager just becuase of the street that he lives in. Why is there not a march about this, don't these black lives matter?
    Yes, I think you are beginning to understand how systemic racism works.

    BLM is about combating systemic racism.
    Young kids in London stabbing each other is nothing to do with race its to do with drugs
    And drug dealing is usually related to lack of role models and other opportunities.

    Which sadly is a far greater issue for Black males than any other group (including white working class males)
    Correct, and has been for decades. I'm not sure how you persuade young black people to take parenthood more seriously.
    Here’s an example of everyday racism on my part regarding cultural depictions. A few months ago I watched the Mary Queen of Scots movie with Saoirse Ronan. It is very unlikely that Mary spoke with a heavy Scots accent as she was portrayed, having spent virtually all her childhood in France, and I knew that. However, halfway through I noticed I was less bothered by how Mary sounded than how Thomas Randolph, who was played by black actor Adrian Lester, looked. Neither was I as bothered that Margot Robbie is much much better looking than the historical Elizabeth I. My brain had been trained to ignore those historical inaccuracies, and the many others in the film, save for the amount of melanin in one actor’s skin. That’s systemic racism showing in someone who tries really really hard not to be racist.

    Similarly we have no problem with James Bond having a Scots, English, Irish or indeed Australian accent, having brown or blue eyes, chest hair or no chest hair, but if a black actor is ever cast in the role we all know how the usual suspects will react.
    James Bond has been a British English character with a long family history going back to the Normans as far as I recall (family motto) and therefore white. All the actors have played him as such (with greater or lesser success on the accent front ). It is fiction and it is therefore of course fine for him to become a black character, or a woman, but it would be a bigger divergence from the source material than we've yet seen. Personally, I'd prefer us to create new cultural icons who happen to be black.
    James Bond has always to a lesser or greater degree been somewhat removed or not paid much attention to, the source material, and the 'original' character.

    I see no issue with a black James Bond at all. Just like Doctor Who, it's a character which has changed time and time again, and new things brought to it by each character, so anything new and interesting should be welcomed.
    A non-white Bond is fine so long as it's done with integrity. No gimmicks.
    As I understand it James Bond is meant to have been of aristocratic Scottish heritage. As I am not aware of any Scottish aristocratic people who also have black heritage (waiting to be corrected here!) I therefore (perhaps unpolitically correctly) think that having a black actor play JB is about as silly as having a white actor play Barak Obama.
    James Bond is a fictional, almost cartoon like, character. Obama will always be a historical figure noted for being the first black US President. The differences are obvious. It is easier to alter the back story of a fictional character because it is fiction. Indeed that’s what Fleming did with Bond - after Connery was cast he added Bond’s Scots ancestry to the books. It was not until the penultimate novel, You Only Live Twice, that Fleming gave Bond a sense of family background, using a fictional obituary, purportedly from The Times. The book was the first to be written after the release of Dr. No in cinemas and Sean Connery's depiction of Bond affected Fleming's interpretation of the character. You can’t retcon Obama like that .
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006
    edited June 2020

    TOPPING said:

    I see the Duchess of Sussex has popped up - to remind us that her life matters...

    No doubt she is hoping it gets covered by the Daily Mail.

    Oh there you are.

    I had a question for you recently. Still hearing chaffinches although less so now. Plenty of whitethroats, although am I imagining that they are also lessening? Plus finally the yellowhammers are finding their voices. New songs? Skylarks and wrens.

    Does that accord with breeing/migration patterns? What should I be looking (listening) our for?
    The Whitethroats should be busy feeding their first brood. They should get a second one away - might do a bit of territorial song between the two. Chaffinches have been more vocal here too. No second brood for them. Great Tits are quite noisy at the moment, presumably to keep their flock of youngsters together. And if you are lucky to have trees around you, chance of the incessent squeaking through the night of young Tawny Owls. This sleepy chap was sat about fifteen feet from the back door.



    Rarely see a starling these days we had about 60+ invade the garden, bird feeders, etc about a week or so ago.
    Stayed around most of the day but all disappeared by the next day. We are normally not in the UK in May so don't know if this is an annual phenomenon that we usually miss.

    Love the Tawny by the way. Our resident woodpeckers have a youngster this year and doing a lot more ground feeding than usual with the youngster
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,929

    DougSeal said:

    coach said:

    eek said:

    coach said:

    Alistair said:

    IanB2 said:

    Interesting to hear the editor of the Guardian say yesterday that they had decided to do a feature comparing the stories of health workers in the UK, US and Australia who had died of Coronavirus, but the Australian Guardian came back and said they didn't have any who had died.

    The reason we have the worst stats is that we are the best at collecting them.

    In regard to the black lives matters march yesterday in the UK, I wonder why people just shrug when almost on a daily basis a black teenager stabs to death another black teenager just becuase of the street that he lives in. Why is there not a march about this, don't these black lives matter?
    Yes, I think you are beginning to understand how systemic racism works.

    BLM is about combating systemic racism.
    Young kids in London stabbing each other is nothing to do with race its to do with drugs
    And drug dealing is usually related to lack of role models and other opportunities.

    Which sadly is a far greater issue for Black males than any other group (including white working class males)
    Correct, and has been for decades. I'm not sure how you persuade young black people to take parenthood more seriously.
    Here’s an example of everyday racism on my part regarding cultural depictions. A few months ago I watched the Mary Queen of Scots movie with Saoirse Ronan. It is very unlikely that Mary spoke with a heavy Scots accent as she was portrayed, having spent virtually all her childhood in France, and I knew that. However, halfway through I noticed I was less bothered by how Mary sounded than how Thomas Randolph, who was played by black actor Adrian Lester, looked. Neither was I as bothered that Margot Robbie is much much better looking than the historical Elizabeth I. My brain had been trained to ignore those historical inaccuracies, and the many others in the film, save for the amount of melanin in one actor’s skin. That’s systemic racism showing in someone who tries really really hard not to be racist.

    Similarly we have no problem with James Bond having a Scots, English, Irish or indeed Australian accent, having brown or blue eyes, chest hair or no chest hair, but if a black actor is ever cast in the role we all know how the usual suspects will react.
    We are all victims of our childhood. When I was young there was a sitcom called "Love Thy Neighbour" which would probably land the producers in jail these days. The N word was used a plenty. Racist expressions were common and used as everyday expressions. I grew up with that - it was normal.

    Fast forward some years later to when life has shown just how wrong and abhorrent those things were and they still haunt me. I made sure my own children were not subjected to those "aphorisms".
    My childhood favourite record was called "Black Sambo" about a little black boy who outwits a tiger by getting to chase its own tail round and round until it gets so fast it turns into butter. Clearly "Black Sambo" is the hero and outsmarts the tiger - but that along with "Golly" on Robinsons marmalade (I think I even had a "Golly" soft toy along "teddy") are clearly based on horribly outdated ideas.

    One bit of "colour blind" casting that paid off brilliantly recently was Dev Patel as David Copperfield - sadly on Amazon this brilliant film - a joy from start to finish - has been downrated because of that casting. As the director said, simply, "Dev was the best actor for the role" - and he was.
    Can we not use racially charged terms please? The sort of automated software companies use to detect them are not strong on context and nuance.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,405
    Sandpit said:

    rkrkrk said:

    This popped up for me on BBC. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52913066
    Am I right in thinking the reason accountants suggest a limited company is because you end up paying less tax?
    I wonder whether people will be able to sue accountants for this kind of advice, it's clearly been very detrimental to her...

    I thought the limited liability of being a company was also a major advantage than of being a sole trader etc.
    That account doesn’t read right.

    She closed the company, but can’t pay her office rent, she spent £60k on equipment, but has no assets, her turnover was £20k a month but she paid herself £500...
    It just about makes sense to me as I suspect the bits missing come from a journalist not understanding things when writing it up.

    And the Bounceback loans are designed for such things.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Guernsey ups fine for breaching quarantine from £1,000 to £10,000:

    https://guernseypress.com/news/2020/06/04/10000-fine-needed-to-ensure-travellers-isolate/

    Concerned about businessmen thinking "it doesn't apply to them" or "I can pay that".

    So far there has been pretty good compliance.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    Sandpit said:

    rkrkrk said:

    This popped up for me on BBC. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52913066
    Am I right in thinking the reason accountants suggest a limited company is because you end up paying less tax?
    I wonder whether people will be able to sue accountants for this kind of advice, it's clearly been very detrimental to her...

    I thought the limited liability of being a company was also a major advantage than of being a sole trader etc.
    That account doesn’t read right.

    She closed the company, but can’t pay her office rent, she spent £60k on equipment, but has no assets, her turnover was £20k a month but she paid herself £500...
    She paid herself out in dividends, no doubt, as advised by her accountant (but not reimburseable under the scheme).

    She effectively declared employment income of £500 pm and is getting compensation based on that.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,139
    Nigelb said:

    DougSeal said:

    Nigelb said:

    TOPPING said:

    Fishing said:

    DougSeal said:



    Similarly we have no problem with James Bond having a Scots, English, Irish or indeed Australian accent, having brown or blue eyes, chest hair or no chest hair, but if a black actor is ever cast in the role we all know how the usual suspects will react.

    Probably the same as if a man played Miss/Mr Marple.
    Or Hugh Grant played Robert Mugabe.

    For clarity, however, I think that James Bond, a fictional character, as someone has noted similarly to Dr Who, could be played by anyone and should be played by Idris Elba and should absofuckinglutely not be played by Tom Hiddleston.
    Definitely agree with you on the latter point.
    10 years ago Idris Elba would have rocked the role but he’s too old now.
    I believe he's expressed similar sentiments, but you never know until you see someone in the role. (My first reaction to the choice of Craig was fairly negative, but he's done pretty well.)

    ...though as I said, I'm certain Hiddleston would be no good.
    Hiddleston playing Coriolanus on National Theatre live this evening
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,805
    coach said:

    kjh said:

    coach said:

    kjh said:

    Alistair said:

    coach said:

    kjh said:

    coach said:

    kjh said:

    coach said:

    kjh said:

    coach said:

    kjh said:

    coach said:

    Alistair said:

    IanB2 said:

    Interesting to hear the editor of the Guardian say yesterday that they had decided to do a feature comparing the stories of health workers in the UK, US and Australia who had died of Coronavirus, but the Australian Guardian came back and said they didn't have any who had died.

    The reason we have the worst stats is that we are the best at collecting them.

    In regard to the black lives matters march yesterday in the UK, I wonder why people just shrug when almost on a daily basis a black teenager stabs to death another black teenager just becuase of the street that he lives in. Why is there not a march about this, don't these black lives matter?
    Yes, I think you are beginning to understand how systemic racism works.

    BLM is about combating systemic racism.
    Young kids in London stabbing each other is nothing to do with race its to do with drugs
    So why do you think they are predominantly black then?
    No idea mate, just stating a fact
    Yes you do. You didn't state a fact, you stated an opinion. You said it had nothing to do with race. That is an opinion not a fact. The FACT that a disproportionate number are black implies it is related to race.
    It is a fact, you might find it uncomfortable but its undeniable. Talk to the middle class white people who buy the drugs, they know the score.

    And I appreciate you're desperate to call me a racist so just get it over and done with.
    This is weird Do you not know the difference between a fact and an opinion?

    Do you not know what systemic means?
    I really have no idea where you're going with this, but its clear you have very little understanding of the drug supply chain in the UK.

    I know you don't understand where I am going with this. You don't seem to be able to understand the logic. Doesn't it make you think there's an issue with your thinking when several people use the word weird to describe the structure of your argument.

    You are right I know nothing about drug supply. What has that got to do with the argument

    Let me ask you, do you think black people are genetically more likely to be drug dealers or do you think there's another reason?
    I know nothing about genetics and I have no idea why the vast majority of stabbings are drug related and black on black.
    What are you even arguing then?

    I'm saying it is systemic racism is involved. You are saying it isn't but offer no counter argument.
    I'm going to have one more go coach without using the words systemic or genetic.

    Coach do you think that a disproportionate number of black people are involved in drug dealing and gangs because:

    a) it is inherent in being black

    or

    b) because of the environment in which they were brought up in and live?
    I don't know, I'm not qualified to make a reasoned argument.

    What I do know is that too many people who claim to be aware of and concerned by the issues massively contribute to them.
    Re your 2nd para if you are referring to hypocrites who are vocal about solving the problem but buy the drugs then you are undoubtedly correct. Same issue for all problems eg climate change is a classic for hypocrisy.

    Re the question - Very honest of you to say you don't know. The overwhelming evidence is it is b). That is what all the stuff going on at the moment is all about.

    There is little or no evidence it is a). Any evidence that does exist between races is statistically insignificant, especially when you look at a range of behaviours an intelligence between individuals within races.

    However a large number of people believe it is a), based upon no sensible evidence whatsoever. These people are racists.
    Most conversations about nature and nurture don't get very far.
    That may be true when looking at individuals, although I doubt most will not dispute a person is a result of there genes and the influences on them. It is just the degree.

    But I think there is pretty conclusive evidence that any differences between races is not significant and overwhelmed by the differences within a race.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,313
    Sandpit said:

    rkrkrk said:

    This popped up for me on BBC. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52913066
    Am I right in thinking the reason accountants suggest a limited company is because you end up paying less tax?
    I wonder whether people will be able to sue accountants for this kind of advice, it's clearly been very detrimental to her...

    I thought the limited liability of being a company was also a major advantage than of being a sole trader etc.
    That account doesn’t read right.

    She closed the company, but can’t pay her office rent, she spent £60k on equipment, but has no assets, her turnover was £20k a month but she paid herself £500...
    Whatever the detail of the individual case is, the principle is that it is monumentally unfair. Taking divs in lieu of salary is not illegal and is that way many small businesses operate, partic those in early stages. My heart goes out to her and others like her.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,139

    Carnyx said:

    Jackson Carlaw, Leader of the Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party. twisting the knife into BoZo’s belly just now on BBC Radio Scotland. He says, repeatedly, that he is “not wholly convinced” by Dominic Cummings’ explanation for his actions.

    Classic code for “the man’s a liar”.

    Astonishingly, Carlaw has not spoken to his boss BoZo in months. They have only exchanged two text messages since The Clown was released from hospital.

    Carlaw sounds like a drowning man, unable to affect either his opponents nor his (supposed) allies.

    The Milton Keynes appointee is a real kick in the groin.

    MK? *googles for land of concrete coos* Ah - now I see. Blood is sure thicker than residence when it comes to Tories. But what a dunt in the baws to the actual Scottish Tories. Remiunds me of the day when the Scottish Office was run by a MP from Weston-Super-Mare IIRC.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-52880226
    I will defer to our actual Scottish posters on this (and we can always rely on Malc for a fair and balanced appraisal of the situation), but right now it looks to me as if the Conservatives are going to get absolutely, utterly, walloped in the Holyrood elections next year. As in a panda-level event.
    Latest Holyrood polling has the Tories above the 22% they got in 2016
  • The only surprise to me is just how favourably the Government's handling of the Coronavirus crisis was viewed until as recently as 1 May (+28%), when it was already clear that the mortality rate in the U.K. from the disease had been amongst the worst in the world and continues to be so, despite the best efforts of our much-lauded NHS. Frankly the huge number of poor souls who have died and continue to do so is a terrible indictment of how poorly the Government has dealt with this crisis. It has certainly convinced me, as a Tory, that Boris Johnson is unfit to be Prime Minister ... he should be replaced asap.
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006

    DougSeal said:

    coach said:

    eek said:

    coach said:

    Alistair said:

    IanB2 said:

    Interesting to hear the editor of the Guardian say yesterday that they had decided to do a feature comparing the stories of health workers in the UK, US and Australia who had died of Coronavirus, but the Australian Guardian came back and said they didn't have any who had died.

    The reason we have the worst stats is that we are the best at collecting them.

    In regard to the black lives matters march yesterday in the UK, I wonder why people just shrug when almost on a daily basis a black teenager stabs to death another black teenager just becuase of the street that he lives in. Why is there not a march about this, don't these black lives matter?
    Yes, I think you are beginning to understand how systemic racism works.

    BLM is about combating systemic racism.
    Young kids in London stabbing each other is nothing to do with race its to do with drugs
    And drug dealing is usually related to lack of role models and other opportunities.

    Which sadly is a far greater issue for Black males than any other group (including white working class males)
    Correct, and has been for decades. I'm not sure how you persuade young black people to take parenthood more seriously.
    Here’s an example of everyday racism on my part regarding cultural depictions. A few months ago I watched the Mary Queen of Scots movie with Saoirse Ronan. It is very unlikely that Mary spoke with a heavy Scots accent as she was portrayed, having spent virtually all her childhood in France, and I knew that. However, halfway through I noticed I was less bothered by how Mary sounded than how Thomas Randolph, who was played by black actor Adrian Lester, looked. Neither was I as bothered that Margot Robbie is much much better looking than the historical Elizabeth I. My brain had been trained to ignore those historical inaccuracies, and the many others in the film, save for the amount of melanin in one actor’s skin. That’s systemic racism showing in someone who tries really really hard not to be racist.

    Similarly we have no problem with James Bond having a Scots, English, Irish or indeed Australian accent, having brown or blue eyes, chest hair or no chest hair, but if a black actor is ever cast in the role we all know how the usual suspects will react.
    We are all victims of our childhood. When I was young there was a sitcom called "Love Thy Neighbour" which would probably land the producers in jail these days. The N word was used a plenty. Racist expressions were common and used as everyday expressions. I grew up with that - it was normal.

    Fast forward some years later to when life has shown just how wrong and abhorrent those things were and they still haunt me. I made sure my own children were not subjected to those "aphorisms".
    My childhood favourite record was called "Black Sambo" about a little black boy who outwits a tiger by getting to chase its own tail round and round until it gets so fast it turns into butter. Clearly "Black Sambo" is the hero and outsmarts the tiger - but that along with "Golly" on Robinsons marmalade (I think I even had a "Golly" soft toy along "teddy") are clearly based on horribly outdated ideas.

    One bit of "colour blind" casting that paid off brilliantly recently was Dev Patel as David Copperfield - sadly on Amazon this brilliant film - a joy from start to finish - has been downrated because of that casting. As the director said, simply, "Dev was the best actor for the role" - and he was.
    We saw the Copperfield and really liked it, Dev Patel is an excellent actor. Mind you that was back in the heady days of risking our lives going to the local cinema.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    kjh said:

    coach said:

    kjh said:

    coach said:

    kjh said:

    Alistair said:

    coach said:

    kjh said:

    coach said:

    kjh said:

    coach said:

    kjh said:

    coach said:

    kjh said:

    coach said:

    Alistair said:

    IanB2 said:

    Interesting to hear the editor of the Guardian say yesterday that they had decided to do a feature comparing the stories of health workers in the UK, US and Australia who had died of Coronavirus, but the Australian Guardian came back and said they didn't have any who had died.

    The reason we have the worst stats is that we are the best at collecting them.

    In regard to the black lives matters march yesterday in the UK, I wonder why people just shrug when almost on a daily basis a black teenager stabs to death another black teenager just becuase of the street that he lives in. Why is there not a march about this, don't these black lives matter?
    Yes, I think you are beginning to understand how systemic racism works.

    BLM is about combating systemic racism.
    Young kids in London stabbing each other is nothing to do with race its to do with drugs
    So why do you think they are predominantly black then?
    No idea mate, just stating a fact
    Yes you do. You didn't state a fact, you stated an opinion. You said it had nothing to do with race. That is an opinion not a fact. The FACT that a disproportionate number are black implies it is related to race.
    It is a fact, you might find it uncomfortable but its undeniable. Talk to the middle class white people who buy the drugs, they know the score.

    And I appreciate you're desperate to call me a racist so just get it over and done with.
    This is weird Do you not know the difference between a fact and an opinion?

    Do you not know what systemic means?
    I really have no idea where you're going with this, but its clear you have very little understanding of the drug supply chain in the UK.

    I know you don't understand where I am going with this. You don't seem to be able to understand the logic. Doesn't it make you think there's an issue with your thinking when several people use the word weird to describe the structure of your argument.

    You are right I know nothing about drug supply. What has that got to do with the argument

    Let me ask you, do you think black people are genetically more likely to be drug dealers or do you think there's another reason?
    I know nothing about genetics and I have no idea why the vast majority of stabbings are drug related and black on black.
    What are you even arguing then?

    I'm saying it is systemic racism is involved. You are saying it isn't but offer no counter argument.
    I'm going to have one more go coach without using the words systemic or genetic.

    Coach do you think that a disproportionate number of black people are involved in drug dealing and gangs because:

    a) it is inherent in being black

    or

    b) because of the environment in which they were brought up in and live?
    I don't know, I'm not qualified to make a reasoned argument.

    What I do know is that too many people who claim to be aware of and concerned by the issues massively contribute to them.
    Re your 2nd para if you are referring to hypocrites who are vocal about solving the problem but buy the drugs then you are undoubtedly correct. Same issue for all problems eg climate change is a classic for hypocrisy.

    Re the question - Very honest of you to say you don't know. The overwhelming evidence is it is b). That is what all the stuff going on at the moment is all about.

    There is little or no evidence it is a). Any evidence that does exist between races is statistically insignificant, especially when you look at a range of behaviours an intelligence between individuals within races.

    However a large number of people believe it is a), based upon no sensible evidence whatsoever. These people are racists.
    Most conversations about nature and nurture don't get very far.
    That may be true when looking at individuals, although I doubt most will not dispute a person is a result of there genes and the influences on them. It is just the degree.

    But I think there is pretty conclusive evidence that any differences between races is not significant and overwhelmed by the differences within a race.
    Any study of differences between difference social and ethnic groups gets misreported and often used as the basis for pseudoscience racism. That’s why it’s so hard to do.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,805

    DougSeal said:

    coach said:

    eek said:

    coach said:

    Alistair said:

    IanB2 said:

    Interesting to hear the editor of the Guardian say yesterday that they had decided to do a feature comparing the stories of health workers in the UK, US and Australia who had died of Coronavirus, but the Australian Guardian came back and said they didn't have any who had died.

    The reason we have the worst stats is that we are the best at collecting them.

    In regard to the black lives matters march yesterday in the UK, I wonder why people just shrug when almost on a daily basis a black teenager stabs to death another black teenager just becuase of the street that he lives in. Why is there not a march about this, don't these black lives matter?
    Yes, I think you are beginning to understand how systemic racism works.

    BLM is about combating systemic racism.
    Young kids in London stabbing each other is nothing to do with race its to do with drugs
    And drug dealing is usually related to lack of role models and other opportunities.

    Which sadly is a far greater issue for Black males than any other group (including white working class males)
    Correct, and has been for decades. I'm not sure how you persuade young black people to take parenthood more seriously.
    Here’s an example of everyday racism on my part regarding cultural depictions. A few months ago I watched the Mary Queen of Scots movie with Saoirse Ronan. It is very unlikely that Mary spoke with a heavy Scots accent as she was portrayed, having spent virtually all her childhood in France, and I knew that. However, halfway through I noticed I was less bothered by how Mary sounded than how Thomas Randolph, who was played by black actor Adrian Lester, looked. Neither was I as bothered that Margot Robbie is much much better looking than the historical Elizabeth I. My brain had been trained to ignore those historical inaccuracies, and the many others in the film, save for the amount of melanin in one actor’s skin. That’s systemic racism showing in someone who tries really really hard not to be racist.

    Similarly we have no problem with James Bond having a Scots, English, Irish or indeed Australian accent, having brown or blue eyes, chest hair or no chest hair, but if a black actor is ever cast in the role we all know how the usual suspects will react.
    We are all victims of our childhood. When I was young there was a sitcom called "Love Thy Neighbour" which would probably land the producers in jail these days. The N word was used a plenty. Racist expressions were common and used as everyday expressions. I grew up with that - it was normal.

    Fast forward some years later to when life has shown just how wrong and abhorrent those things were and they still haunt me. I made sure my own children were not subjected to those "aphorisms".
    My childhood favourite record was called "Black Sambo" about a little black boy who outwits a tiger by getting to chase its own tail round and round until it gets so fast it turns into butter. Clearly "Black Sambo" is the hero and outsmarts the tiger - but that along with "Golly" on Robinsons marmalade (I think I even had a "Golly" soft toy along "teddy") are clearly based on horribly outdated ideas.

    One bit of "colour blind" casting that paid off brilliantly recently was Dev Patel as David Copperfield - sadly on Amazon this brilliant film - a joy from start to finish - has been downrated because of that casting. As the director said, simply, "Dev was the best actor for the role" - and he was.
    Love Thy Neighbour was meant to be a satire that showed racists to be idiots. Sadly the idiots who are racists enjoyed it more than those who were not.
    Similarly 'Till death us do part'.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,191

    kinabalu said:

    DougSeal said:

    coach said:

    eek said:

    coach said:

    Alistair said:

    IanB2 said:

    Interesting to hear the editor of the Guardian say yesterday that they had decided to do a feature comparing the stories of health workers in the UK, US and Australia who had died of Coronavirus, but the Australian Guardian came back and said they didn't have any who had died.

    The reason we have the worst stats is that we are the best at collecting them.

    In regard to the black lives matters march yesterday in the UK, I wonder why people just shrug when almost on a daily basis a black teenager stabs to death another black teenager just becuase of the street that he lives in. Why is there not a march about this, don't these black lives matter?
    Yes, I think you are beginning to understand how systemic racism works.

    BLM is about combating systemic racism.
    Young kids in London stabbing each other is nothing to do with race its to do with drugs
    And drug dealing is usually related to lack of role models and other opportunities.

    Which sadly is a far greater issue for Black males than any other group (including white working class males)
    Correct, and has been for decades. I'm not sure how you persuade young black people to take parenthood more seriously.
    Here’s an example of everyday racism on my part regarding cultural depictions. A few months ago I watched the Mary Queen of Scots movie with Saoirse Ronan. It is very unlikely that Mary spoke with a heavy Scots accent as she was portrayed, having spent virtually all her childhood in France, and I knew that. However, halfway through I noticed I was less bothered by how Mary sounded than how Thomas Randolph, who was played by black actor Adrian Lester, looked. Neither was I as bothered that Margot Robbie is much much better looking than the historical Elizabeth I. My brain had been trained to ignore those historical inaccuracies, and the many others in the film, save for the amount of melanin in one actor’s skin. That’s systemic racism showing in someone who tries really really hard not to be racist.

    Similarly we have no problem with James Bond having a Scots, English, Irish or indeed Australian accent, having brown or blue eyes, chest hair or no chest hair, but if a black actor is ever cast in the role we all know how the usual suspects will react.
    James Bond has been a British English character with a long family history going back to the Normans as far as I recall (family motto) and therefore white. All the actors have played him as such (with greater or lesser success on the accent front ). It is fiction and it is therefore of course fine for him to become a black character, or a woman, but it would be a bigger divergence from the source material than we've yet seen. Personally, I'd prefer us to create new cultural icons who happen to be black.
    James Bond has always to a lesser or greater degree been somewhat removed or not paid much attention to, the source material, and the 'original' character.

    I see no issue with a black James Bond at all. Just like Doctor Who, it's a character which has changed time and time again, and new things brought to it by each character, so anything new and interesting should be welcomed.
    A non-white Bond is fine so long as it's done with integrity. No gimmicks.
    As I understand it James Bond is meant to have been of aristocratic Scottish heritage. As I am not aware of any Scottish aristocratic people who also have black heritage (waiting to be corrected here!) I therefore (perhaps unpolitically correctly) think that having a black actor play JB is about as silly as having a white actor play Barak Obama.
    Really?

    A black actor playing a (probably in the books white) fictional character in a film adaption = a white actor playing the actual first black president of the USA?

    Is that some weird attempt at humour?

  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,608
    BTW, the owl picture was taken with a compact Canon SX730HS. It has a great macro facility - but the zoom is pretty damned good too. This female broad-bodied chaser dragonfly was taken from about 9 feet: hand-held, no tripod:


  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,316
    eek said:

    Phil said:

    rkrkrk said:

    This popped up for me on BBC. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52913066
    Am I right in thinking the reason accountants suggest a limited company is because you end up paying less tax?
    I wonder whether people will be able to sue accountants for this kind of advice, it's clearly been very detrimental to her...

    If you set up as a limited company, you can effectively choose to take your income as either salary or dividends (assuming you don’t fall under IR35; a beautician working with multiple clients certainly wouldn’t). If you took it as salary, then under the government rules it’s permissible to furlough yourself & be paid by the government scheme. Any income you took as dividends doesn’t count.

    A good accountant will have told you to at least pay yourself enough salary to qualify for accrued pension rights etc, but may people, especially those on relatively low incomes might have looked at the tax impact & taken it all as dividends instead.
    Nope, if you want things to be tax efficient you take out enough to qualify for a pension as you qualify it just as you hit the point you start paying NI. I think the figure is round about £680 or so, so on the 80% scheme that's just under / over £500 a month.

    The reason why a lot of people will use limited companies is actually more about personal liability. With a limited company involved it requires a far greater level of screw up before you become personal liable and risk your home.
    Isn’t that exactly what I said? - That you’re advised to pay yourself enough to qualify for the state pension. But yes, the limited liability is definitely a big part of it too.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,139
    Carnyx said:

    Jackson Carlaw, Leader of the Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party. twisting the knife into BoZo’s belly just now on BBC Radio Scotland. He says, repeatedly, that he is “not wholly convinced” by Dominic Cummings’ explanation for his actions.

    Classic code for “the man’s a liar”.

    Astonishingly, Carlaw has not spoken to his boss BoZo in months. They have only exchanged two text messages since The Clown was released from hospital.

    Carlaw sounds like a drowning man, unable to affect either his opponents nor his (supposed) allies.

    The Milton Keynes appointee is a real kick in the groin.

    MK? *googles for land of concrete coos* Ah - now I see. Blood is sure thicker than residence when it comes to Tories. But what a dunt in the baws to the actual Scottish Tories. Remiunds me of the day when the Scottish Office was run by a MP from Weston-Super-Mare IIRC.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-52880226
    The new Scottish office minister was born in Hamilton and went to school in Glasgow.

    He is Scottish, he just represents an English seat
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,929
    edited June 2020
    Sandpit said:

    rkrkrk said:

    This popped up for me on BBC. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52913066
    Am I right in thinking the reason accountants suggest a limited company is because you end up paying less tax?
    I wonder whether people will be able to sue accountants for this kind of advice, it's clearly been very detrimental to her...

    I thought the limited liability of being a company was also a major advantage than of being a sole trader etc.
    That account doesn’t read right.

    She closed the company, but can’t pay her office rent, she spent £60k on equipment, but has no assets, her turnover was £20k a month but she paid herself £500...
    This was forecast weeks ago on pb -- that business owners paying themselves via dividends not salaries would be squeezed. From the story: paying herself a basic salary of £500 per month and any further income in the form of dividends paid to her by the limited company.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52913066

    The rest looks as if she was simply naive in the way entrepreneurs often are, especially as startups, in that she over-invested her own money rather than the bank's.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,313
    eek said:

    Sandpit said:

    rkrkrk said:

    This popped up for me on BBC. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52913066
    Am I right in thinking the reason accountants suggest a limited company is because you end up paying less tax?
    I wonder whether people will be able to sue accountants for this kind of advice, it's clearly been very detrimental to her...

    I thought the limited liability of being a company was also a major advantage than of being a sole trader etc.
    That account doesn’t read right.

    She closed the company, but can’t pay her office rent, she spent £60k on equipment, but has no assets, her turnover was £20k a month but she paid herself £500...
    It just about makes sense to me as I suspect the bits missing come from a journalist not understanding things when writing it up.

    And the Bounceback loans are designed for such things.
    Interesting to know why she would not be eligible for Bounce Back loan. Perhaps she has not been in business for long enough, or her business was already registered as in trouble. Otherwise she would be able to claim up to 25% of her previous year revenue, up to £50k
  • eekeek Posts: 28,405

    Sandpit said:

    rkrkrk said:

    This popped up for me on BBC. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52913066
    Am I right in thinking the reason accountants suggest a limited company is because you end up paying less tax?
    I wonder whether people will be able to sue accountants for this kind of advice, it's clearly been very detrimental to her...

    I thought the limited liability of being a company was also a major advantage than of being a sole trader etc.
    That account doesn’t read right.

    She closed the company, but can’t pay her office rent, she spent £60k on equipment, but has no assets, her turnover was £20k a month but she paid herself £500...
    Whatever the detail of the individual case is, the principle is that it is monumentally unfair. Taking divs in lieu of salary is not illegal and is that way many small businesses operate, partic those in early stages. My heart goes out to her and others like her.
    Sorry but I disagree with that (even though I pay myself the same way and haven't paid myself since March). Dividend payments are a reward for the risk taken / money invested and if the reward disappears then the dividend payments should disappear as well.

    Now I can continue to pay myself a salary were I to want to but that would cause other issues so I'm currently living on savings (for which I have enough to see me through a fair few months).
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,599

    Sandpit said:

    rkrkrk said:

    This popped up for me on BBC. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52913066
    Am I right in thinking the reason accountants suggest a limited company is because you end up paying less tax?
    I wonder whether people will be able to sue accountants for this kind of advice, it's clearly been very detrimental to her...

    I thought the limited liability of being a company was also a major advantage than of being a sole trader etc.
    That account doesn’t read right.

    She closed the company, but can’t pay her office rent, she spent £60k on equipment, but has no assets, her turnover was £20k a month but she paid herself £500...
    She paid herself out in dividends, no doubt, as advised by her accountant (but not reimburseable under the scheme).

    She effectively declared employment income of £500 pm and is getting compensation based on that.
    But she says she’s now on Universal Credit, so she’s unemployed rather than furloughed. .

    As far as I can see, this lady has a load of equipment she can use to run a business as a trainer, which can be done from a shared office. There’s no reason she can’t be back to turning over £20k a month by the end of the summer. Maybe some short-term help from the bank is required on loan repayments.

    If the media are going to crack-handedly write up every hard luck story from the forthcoming recession, they’d better get much better at explaining things.
This discussion has been closed.