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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Wear and tear. The fate of Dominic Cummings

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  • Scott_xP said:
    If they are so sure then post a picture of his car at the castle.

    If not then it is utter bollocks
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,999

    Either Cummings goes soon, or BJ goes within months. The only time I can remember feeling such a deep sense of utter rage is when I heard about the News of the World tapping Milly Dowler's phone. And we know what happened to the News of the World. You can't cross a line with the British public like Cummings has and expect to survive. This isn't party politics or Leave Vs Remain. This is crossing a fundamental line of decent behaviour. Incredible they can't see this.

    Were you around on PB for the the months and months of outrage about the noble News of the World being destroyed by the forces of lefty darkness? It was an..er..classic.
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006
    Andrew said:

    Overtaking Italy on the test count for the first time I think. Germany and Spain next (they're doing 50k/60k/75k per day respectively, so it was only a matter of time).


    Pity we're poised to overtake them on the deaths per million stat too.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    Are the 22 committee having video meetings at the moment? Seems like they need one.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,898
    Evening all :)

    Moving on from Cummings, the next battle looks to be over schools re-opening. With councils of all political stripe, ranging from Surrey to Liverpool, warning about the risks of re-opening, Boris has thrown this grenade into the room as a clear attempt to divert public opinion.

    He will no doubt gamble the decision to re-open schools will be widely supported but support may not translate into action and it remains to be seen how schools will re-open and how many parents will choose to keep their children at home and what will happen to those who do.

    The politics is quite simple - the Government, once again, is trying to line up against the "Establishment" in support of "ordinary hard working families" and allied with those desperate to end the lockdown.

    The other side will have local councils, Labour and the teachers' unions and this group will be vilified as "establishment" by the pro-Government media and their supporters. The Mail will be torn between supporting the Government and supporting the "ordinary hard working families" and will take the line it's best for the children to be able to see their friends again.

    Boris is undoubtedly hoping this media war will play much better for him but he always wants to be on the right side of public opinion as often as possible or to let someone else take the blame if he is not.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381

    Scott_xP said:
    If they are so sure then post a picture of his car at the castle.

    If not then it is utter bollocks
    Even if it is Cummings can say his vehicle has been cloned.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,357

    Lol, Jackson's surfaced!

    'I want the Prime Minister to continue his excellent work leading the country out of lockdown and I'm glad he set out his plans clearly today.'

    https://twitter.com/thistlejohn/status/1264597839465926656?s=20

    How dire can this plankton get.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,798

    Either Cummings goes soon, or BJ goes within months. The only time I can remember feeling such a deep sense of utter rage is when I heard about the News of the World tapping Milly Dowler's phone. And we know what happened to the News of the World. You can't cross a line with the British public like Cummings has and expect to survive. This isn't party politics or Leave Vs Remain. This is crossing a fundamental line of decent behaviour. Incredible they can't see this.

    Were you around on PB for the the months and months of outrage about the noble News of the World being destroyed by the forces of lefty darkness? It was an..er..classic.
    I missed that, thank fuck.
  • As part of a complete failure of Coronavirus strategy, can't see how this doesn't hurt the Government. The biggest pandemic of our lifetimes and many suspect it has no impact on the Government at all?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,225

    Either Cummings goes soon, or BJ goes within months. The only time I can remember feeling such a deep sense of utter rage is when I heard about the News of the World tapping Milly Dowler's phone. And we know what happened to the News of the World. You can't cross a line with the British public like Cummings has and expect to survive. This isn't party politics or Leave Vs Remain. This is crossing a fundamental line of decent behaviour. Incredible they can't see this.

    I was much angrier listening to File on 4 this evening.
    Which confirmed pretty well everything we’ve ben saying about the government treatment of care homes over the last two or three months.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381

    tlg86 said:
    So will Starmer publish the internal investigation into Stephen Kinnock? Or Tahir Ali?

    I have said all along that the agenda throughout this whole campaign against the government is Brexit, and trying to bring the government down before the end of June so whoever replaces them extends the transition period.

    What really pisses me off is that the government is doing all they can to help them
    What on earth has any of this to do with Brexit?

    You need to get out more! Oh you can't...unless you are Dominic Cummings.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    tyson said:

    HYUFD said:

    rpjs said:

    Well, this is Boris’s Black Monday. It’s not quite over yet: Starmer will take Boris’s stance apart at the next PMQs. Tory MPs will begin to make noises about grey suits and letter and Cummings will be gone in a week or two.

    But it won’t be enough. The only difference between John Major’s post-Black Monday lame duck administration and Boris Johnson’s post-Coronavirus will be a quarter of a century.

    Enjoy the next four years PB Tories. Another decade or two of Labour government begins in May 2024.

    I doubt it, Starmer might be better than Ed Miliband and Corbyn but he is still polling far lower than Blair was pre 1997 and even John Smith was pre Black Wednesday.

    If he gets in it will likely be with the LDs and SNP, not a 1997 style Labour landslide

    Starmer's only been in for a few weeks.....
    John Smith and Tony Blair had clear poll leads within weeks of becoming leaders of the Labour Party
    So will Starmer after today!
    He won't, the Tories still had a 12% lead yesterday and Yougov had slightly more Tories saying Cummings should not resign than he should

    https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1264296723310141440?s=20
    HYUFD - you are aware that this poll was of opinion on the 21st-22nd of May? That is - before all this hit the news?
    This is largely a media story, it will not move many votes though most voters will think Cummings is an idiot, it is not going to shift many from Tory to Labour or the LDs that will depend more on the state of the economy and how Brexit goes
    All stories are media stories. In this case, though, not merely a media story. There are literally tens of thousands of people out there who can say, and are saying, "My spouse or my parent or grandparent or aunt or uncle died in a care home because the government failed to protect care homes, and died frightened and alone because I obeyed the rules. Now I learn that you disregarded the rules, and the PM is happy with that because of who you are." I would think almost everyone in the country is within two degrees of separation of someone who can say that.

    Today was a definingly terrible day for the government and the conservative party.
    You are not going to switch your vote because Cummings travelled to Barnard Castle for childcare reasons, especially as Boris started to announce further easing of lockdown today.

    You might switch your vote if unemployment rises, taxes go up or because you oppose WTO terms Brexit or the transition period is extended
    I know more about what is going to influence my vote than you do.

    By the way, "COVID-19 is killing young people in Brazil, Mexico and India"


    https://crofsblogs.typepad.com/h5n1/2020/05/covid-19-is-killing-young-people-in-brazil-mexico-and-india-the-washington-post.html

    And many other credible sources. So your thesis that non first world countries would get off lightly because the virus preferentially attacks the very old, turns out to be as wrong as I said it was.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,357
    edited May 2020

    Boris isn't the only one on a sticky wicket:

    A coronavirus outbreak at a Nike conference in Edinburgh has been linked to infections spreading in north-east England.

    It follows claims the Scottish Government should have made information public about the February gathering at the time.


    https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/edinburgh-nike-conference-outbreak-linked-22078157?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar

    Dear oh dear , Tories really are scraping the barrel now. How desperate can you get Carlotta, you have whinged about this non story for some time now. The UK government were involved , what is your opinion on what they did.
    PS: Pretty seedy to be quoting from the Record , I would have expected that to be well below your status.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    This is going to run and run and run.....

    https://twitter.com/helenhayes_/status/1264600281184194567?s=20
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,751

    Scott_xP said:
    If they are so sure then post a picture of his car at the castle.

    If not then it is utter bollocks
    Even if it is Cummings can say his vehicle has been cloned.
    Or that his car was temporarily stolen by this bloke who looks exactly like him, and later returned.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,708
    malcolmg said:

    Lol, Jackson's surfaced!

    'I want the Prime Minister to continue his excellent work leading the country out of lockdown and I'm glad he set out his plans clearly today.'

    https://twitter.com/thistlejohn/status/1264597839465926656?s=20

    How dire can this plankton get.
    Jackson Carlaw obviously thinks it would be undiplomatic to intervene in English politics.
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,316

    Scott_xP said:
    If they are so sure then post a picture of his car at the castle.

    If not then it is utter bollocks
    I imagine a bunch of journo’s will be phoning people in area who might have CCTV this week. The days of slipping a backhander to someone with access to ANPR data are probably (rightly) over, but a juicy complaint to Durham police by a member of the public will open up that line of enquiry too.

    This week is going to be 🔥.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381
    Chris said:

    Scott_xP said:
    If they are so sure then post a picture of his car at the castle.

    If not then it is utter bollocks
    Even if it is Cummings can say his vehicle has been cloned.
    Or that his car was temporarily stolen by this bloke who looks exactly like him, and later returned.
    A cartoon character from the Simpsons stole my car, isn't that right Smithers?
  • eekeek Posts: 28,405

    Scott_xP said:
    If they are so sure then post a picture of his car at the castle.

    If not then it is utter bollocks
    A picture of his car at the castle would be rather difficult - you can only approach it by foot.

    And as a English Heritage property it would have been closed.

    But good try to try and reduce a small bit of this mess.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,413

    Either Cummings goes soon, or BJ goes within months. The only time I can remember feeling such a deep sense of utter rage is when I heard about the News of the World tapping Milly Dowler's phone. And we know what happened to the News of the World. You can't cross a line with the British public like Cummings has and expect to survive. This isn't party politics or Leave Vs Remain. This is crossing a fundamental line of decent behaviour. Incredible they can't see this.

    I concur.
    This cuts through precisely because it isn't a political story.
    It resonates because all of us, to a greater or lesser degree, have been through a shared experience. If not of suffering, then certainly, inconvenience. And anxiety and worry.
    And here is someone openly taking the piss.
    And being seemingly proud of it. And fucking self-righteous and sanctimonious about it to boot.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,139
    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    tyson said:

    HYUFD said:

    rpjs said:

    Well, this is Boris’s Black Monday. It’s not quite over yet: Starmer will take Boris’s stance apart at the next PMQs. Tory MPs will begin to make noises about grey suits and letter and Cummings will be gone in a week or two.

    But it won’t be enough. The only difference between John Major’s post-Black Monday lame duck administration and Boris Johnson’s post-Coronavirus will be a quarter of a century.

    Enjoy the next four years PB Tories. Another decade or two of Labour government begins in May 2024.

    I doubt it, Starmer might be better than Ed Miliband and Corbyn but he is still polling far lower than Blair was pre 1997 and even John Smith was pre Black Wednesday.

    If he gets in it will likely be with the LDs and SNP, not a 1997 style Labour landslide

    Starmer's only been in for a few weeks.....
    John Smith and Tony Blair had clear poll leads within weeks of becoming leaders of the Labour Party
    So will Starmer after today!
    He won't, the Tories still had a 12% lead yesterday and Yougov had slightly more Tories saying Cummings should not resign than he should

    https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1264296723310141440?s=20
    HYUFD - you are aware that this poll was of opinion on the 21st-22nd of May? That is - before all this hit the news?
    This is largely a media story, it will not move many votes though most voters will think Cummings is an idiot, it is not going to shift many from Tory to Labour or the LDs that will depend more on the state of the economy and how Brexit goes
    All stories are media stories. In this case, though, not merely a media story. There are literally tens of thousands of people out there who can say, and are saying, "My spouse or my parent or grandparent or aunt or uncle died in a care home because the government failed to protect care homes, and died frightened and alone because I obeyed the rules. Now I learn that you disregarded the rules, and the PM is happy with that because of who you are." I would think almost everyone in the country is within two degrees of separation of someone who can say that.

    Today was a definingly terrible day for the government and the conservative party.
    You are not going to switch your vote because Cummings travelled to Barnard Castle for childcare reasons, especially as Boris started to announce further easing of lockdown today.

    You might switch your vote if unemployment rises, taxes go up or because you oppose WTO terms Brexit or the transition period is extended
    I know more about what is going to influence my vote than you do.

    By the way, "COVID-19 is killing young people in Brazil, Mexico and India"


    https://crofsblogs.typepad.com/h5n1/2020/05/covid-19-is-killing-young-people-in-brazil-mexico-and-india-the-washington-post.html

    And many other credible sources. So your thesis that non first world countries would get off lightly because the virus preferentially attacks the very old, turns out to be as wrong as I said it was.
    No it doesn't, as that link shows even in Brazil and Mexico and India the majority of deaths from Covid are in over 50s.

    Brazil, Mexico and India have younger populations on average so obviously a higher percentage of their deaths will be younger than in the West, those younger populations mean they also have fewer Covid deaths per head though than western Europe and the USA
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,225
    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    tyson said:

    HYUFD said:

    rpjs said:

    Well, this is Boris’s Black Monday. It’s not quite over yet: Starmer will take Boris’s stance apart at the next PMQs. Tory MPs will begin to make noises about grey suits and letter and Cummings will be gone in a week or two.

    But it won’t be enough. The only difference between John Major’s post-Black Monday lame duck administration and Boris Johnson’s post-Coronavirus will be a quarter of a century.

    Enjoy the next four years PB Tories. Another decade or two of Labour government begins in May 2024.

    I doubt it, Starmer might be better than Ed Miliband and Corbyn but he is still polling far lower than Blair was pre 1997 and even John Smith was pre Black Wednesday.

    If he gets in it will likely be with the LDs and SNP, not a 1997 style Labour landslide

    Starmer's only been in for a few weeks.....
    John Smith and Tony Blair had clear poll leads within weeks of becoming leaders of the Labour Party
    So will Starmer after today!
    He won't, the Tories still had a 12% lead yesterday and Yougov had slightly more Tories saying Cummings should not resign than he should

    https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1264296723310141440?s=20
    HYUFD - you are aware that this poll was of opinion on the 21st-22nd of May? That is - before all this hit the news?
    This is largely a media story, it will not move many votes though most voters will think Cummings is an idiot, it is not going to shift many from Tory to Labour or the LDs that will depend more on the state of the economy and how Brexit goes
    All stories are media stories. In this case, though, not merely a media story. There are literally tens of thousands of people out there who can say, and are saying, "My spouse or my parent or grandparent or aunt or uncle died in a care home because the government failed to protect care homes, and died frightened and alone because I obeyed the rules. Now I learn that you disregarded the rules, and the PM is happy with that because of who you are." I would think almost everyone in the country is within two degrees of separation of someone who can say that.

    Today was a definingly terrible day for the government and the conservative party.
    It would have been a minor distraction, close to an irrelevance, had he either immediately apologised, or been sacked.
    And now, the sound of Johnson in full bluster mode, trying to justify the unjustifiable, will perhaps now define this government in the minds of a very large part of the electorate.
  • MaxPB said:

    So that's my 8 year run in the Conservative party coming to an end.

    @DavidL, @Big_G_NorthWales and other members I hope you do the same. I can't be a member of this party while Boris is leader. His lack of judgement here has been absolutely appalling. The ruling elite can't have a special set of exemptions to rules the rest of us live by, it's just not right.

    Real respect for you and some of the PB Tories. Clearly misjudged some of you.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    stodge said:

    There's so much flapping about Cummings going on at the moment that the fact that the Government appears to be getting ready to give a green light to the limited reopening of the schools, and the unshuttering of non-essential retail, has barely received any attention. Which is bonkers, because this is absolutely crucial.

    However many schools resist partial re-opening on June 1st, we know that a number of academy chains and local authorities wish to proceed; therefore, a significant number of schools will reopen for some pupils. Likewise, whilst some physical retailers may take their time reopening and do it in a phased manner, a significant proportion of shops will also reopen on June 1st.

    Now, insofar as I'm aware, save for a bit of a panic over Germany (and we've heard little more from that direction in the last few days,) there have been no reports of a major second wave taking off in any of the countries that have relaxed restrictions so far. Thus, if the June experiment succeeds and we don't have the start of a big second wave either, then the way is clear for a substantial third phase of reopening and we may get a domestic Summer holiday season this year.

    Also, if we assume that the Government makes a complete mess of track and trace, a continued reduction in cases despite this would lend weight to the notion that a substantial fraction of the population may not be susceptible to the virus, and that we are therefore much further along the pathway to herd immunity than was previously supposed.
    .
    I think it's far too early to feel optimistic about the situation, but I think we're likely to know just how long a slog we are in for in a few weeks' time

    There's no doubt in my mind Boris Johnson leading the Press Conference and announcing the move to Stage 2 is or was a clear diversion and response to the Cummings business.

    The week ahead will gradually stop being about Cummings and will be more about whether schools are really ready to re-open and whether parents are ready to allow their children to attend.

    The Government and those wanting the lockdown to end will be on one side and on the other will be local authorities, teachers' unions, concerned patients, the Labour Party. The division will be clear and Cummings will become irrelevant.
    There are going to be local authorities, academies and parents on *both* sides of the schools issue - especially the latter. A meaningful number of parents will be reliant on schools taking their kids back to return to jobs that cannot be done at home.

    Though, of course, the real crunch point in that respect is September. If the schools aren't operating normally - i.e. if they're still largely shuttered or are only taking pupils part-time - then a mass sacking of working parents will surely result. Being sat indefinitely at home with a kid for two or three days every week - and quite probably different days from one week to the next, at that - is wholly incompatible with full-time employment in any role that cannot be undertaken from home.
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,067
    edited May 2020
    MaxPB said:

    So that's my 8 year run in the Conservative party coming to an end.

    @DavidL, @Big_G_NorthWales and other members I hope you do the same. I can't be a member of this party while Boris is leader. His lack of judgement here has been absolutely appalling. The ruling elite can't have a special set of exemptions to rules the rest of us live by, it's just not right.

    Respect to you.

    I did the same when antisemitism became endemic under Corbyn.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    I wonder if the scene in Downing Street today was like the one described in Tim Shipman's book where the Vote Leave MPs called Cummings to a meeting in order to sack him, and ended up asking him for his advice on what to do?
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,065
    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    tyson said:

    HYUFD said:

    rpjs said:

    Well, this is Boris’s Black Monday. It’s not quite over yet: Starmer will take Boris’s stance apart at the next PMQs. Tory MPs will begin to make noises about grey suits and letter and Cummings will be gone in a week or two.

    But it won’t be enough. The only difference between John Major’s post-Black Monday lame duck administration and Boris Johnson’s post-Coronavirus will be a quarter of a century.

    Enjoy the next four years PB Tories. Another decade or two of Labour government begins in May 2024.

    I doubt it, Starmer might be better than Ed Miliband and Corbyn but he is still polling far lower than Blair was pre 1997 and even John Smith was pre Black Wednesday.

    If he gets in it will likely be with the LDs and SNP, not a 1997 style Labour landslide

    Starmer's only been in for a few weeks.....
    John Smith and Tony Blair had clear poll leads within weeks of becoming leaders of the Labour Party
    So will Starmer after today!
    He won't, the Tories still had a 12% lead yesterday and Yougov had slightly more Tories saying Cummings should not resign than he should

    https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1264296723310141440?s=20
    HYUFD - you are aware that this poll was of opinion on the 21st-22nd of May? That is - before all this hit the news?
    This is largely a media story, it will not move many votes though most voters will think Cummings is an idiot, it is not going to shift many from Tory to Labour or the LDs that will depend more on the state of the economy and how Brexit goes
    All stories are media stories. In this case, though, not merely a media story. There are literally tens of thousands of people out there who can say, and are saying, "My spouse or my parent or grandparent or aunt or uncle died in a care home because the government failed to protect care homes, and died frightened and alone because I obeyed the rules. Now I learn that you disregarded the rules, and the PM is happy with that because of who you are." I would think almost everyone in the country is within two degrees of separation of someone who can say that.

    Today was a definingly terrible day for the government and the conservative party.
    You are not going to switch your vote because Cummings travelled to Barnard Castle for childcare reasons, especially as Boris started to announce further easing of lockdown today.

    You might switch your vote if unemployment rises, taxes go up or because you oppose WTO terms Brexit or the transition period is extended
    You seem to be very sure about the voting intentions of all of the14 million people who voted Conservative in December.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    edited May 2020
    Because they're not infants who think that a single breach of the rules means that we should let the country burn? The lockdown was designed in the full knowledge that 20% or so of the population wouldn't comply with it and it would work anyway.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226
    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sir Keir will utterly destroy Johnson at the next PMQs.

    If Starmer isnt PM in 2024 he must be a real duffer
    Yes. It's looking like an open goal. And with the recession and the tax hikes to come.
    There will not be tax hikes under Boris and Sunak, the way to guarantee tax hikes is to elect a Starmer Government
    Then they have an even bigger problem.
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006

    And now the anger and the articles and the tweets and the polls and the vox pops and the news pieces and the podcasts will flow...

    And soon enough people will get bored of it and forget about it and move on to the next thing.

    I look forward to being lambasted for this reasonable prediction buttressed by ample historical precedent.

    So you saying that this will have no impact and the next polls after the bank holiday will show no change in the relative positions of Tories/Boris and Labour/Starmer?
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    MaxPB said:

    So that's my 8 year run in the Conservative party coming to an end.

    @DavidL, @Big_G_NorthWales and other members I hope you do the same. I can't be a member of this party while Boris is leader. His lack of judgement here has been absolutely appalling. The ruling elite can't have a special set of exemptions to rules the rest of us live by, it's just not right.

    Welcome to the club, Max!
  • glwglw Posts: 9,908
    MaxPB said:

    So that's my 8 year run in the Conservative party coming to an end.

    @DavidL, @Big_G_NorthWales and other members I hope you do the same. I can't be a member of this party while Boris is leader. His lack of judgement here has been absolutely appalling. The ruling elite can't have a special set of exemptions to rules the rest of us live by, it's just not right.

    Boris is a lazy lying bluffer, that's been known for many years. What's really surprising is that he's so politically inept that he cannot see the mess he's getting into.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    MaxPB said:

    So that's my 8 year run in the Conservative party coming to an end.

    @DavidL, @Big_G_NorthWales and other members I hope you do the same. I can't be a member of this party while Boris is leader. His lack of judgement here has been absolutely appalling. The ruling elite can't have a special set of exemptions to rules the rest of us live by, it's just not right.

    Respect. I abandoned Labour over Corbyn’s antisemitism and, frankly, the general disdain for anyone from the social democratic tradition. It’s difficult I know.
  • northern_monkeynorthern_monkey Posts: 1,639
    Well, what a weekend for us politics nerds.

    Boris has either got the biggest pair of clanging brass bollocks I’ve ever seen, or the largest tin ear in terms of public opinion about this.

    Fascinating to see where we go from here.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    The thing is if Big Dom had gone straight away, most people don't know or care who he is. Yes the Guardian and twitter would have been very excited that they got the boogeyman, but it would have no more impact on Boris or government than Prof Pantsdown incident. Especially as Boris was very ill at the time.

    That's the utterly inexplicable bit for me. Six months on the shelf and Doms back.

    Absolutely no harm.

    Why do this except to show you can?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176

    I wonder if the scene in Downing Street today was like the one described in Tim Shipman's book where the Vote Leave MPs called Cummings to a meeting in order to sack him, and ended up asking him for his advice on what to do?

    As David H said yesterday, on that occasion those perpetrating the coup had failed to secure the troops and the communications lines so Cummings was able to move quickly to give himself a chance.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,405

    Because they're not infants who think that a single breach of the rules means that we should let the country burn? The lockdown was designed in the full knowledge that 20% or so of the population wouldn't comply with it and it would work anyway.
    One rule for me, another for you oiks / peasants / fools take your pick...

    In one move Boris has destroyed all his credibility. Likewise you have by not seeing the consequences of the initial decision.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,751

    Scott_xP said:
    If they are so sure then post a picture of his car at the castle.

    If not then it is utter bollocks
    Seriously, I think you've misunderstood.

    No one ever claimed that his car had been photographed at Barnard Castle on Easter Sunday. The claim was that he was seen there and the number of his car was noted, and that the witness did an online search for the number at the time, which could be confirmed by his computer records.

    Obviously what's being said here is that it has been confirmed that the number that was noted then did belong to Cummings.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,898
    HYUFD said:


    You are not going to switch your vote because Cummings travelled to Barnard Castle for childcare reasons, especially as Boris started to announce further easing of lockdown today.

    You might switch your vote if unemployment rises, taxes go up or because you oppose WTO terms Brexit or the transition period is extended

    I'd also argue the emerging story about the disaster in our care homes is going to be much worse in the long run for the Government.

    I hope you would support a full independent public enquiry into what has happened and if it is revealed those accountable, up to and including Cabinet level, took decisions with full knowledge what they were doing would cause further deaths, that they should be held responsible and removed from their posts.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    OllyT said:

    And now the anger and the articles and the tweets and the polls and the vox pops and the news pieces and the podcasts will flow...

    And soon enough people will get bored of it and forget about it and move on to the next thing.

    I look forward to being lambasted for this reasonable prediction buttressed by ample historical precedent.

    So you saying that this will have no impact and the next polls after the bank holiday will show no change in the relative positions of Tories/Boris and Labour/Starmer?
    No, the government will probably take a hit in the polls next week, but it will be both temporary and irrelevant in 2024.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Scott_xP said:
    If they are so sure then post a picture of his car at the castle.

    If not then it is utter bollocks
    Sorry, how does that work? My car is parked in front of my house. I have no photograph of it. Is my claim utter bollocks?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205
    I'm not a member of the Tories to leave it but as of now I'll be voting for Starmer till something changes.
    Just seen today's press conference, Johnson has gaslit a nation to save his adviser, simply shocking.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,357


    This tweet's not going to be up long (screen shot for posterity)

    https://twitter.com/UKCivilService/status/1264600481688702977?s=20

    What does it take to get sacked by this government?
    Some Civil Servant is about to find out. The tweet made it onto the BBC News
    Yes one rule for them and jackboots for the rest
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,999
    FF43 said:

    Johnson is bunkering down. Which I think means he will get even more beholden to Cummings and his inner circle and and even more despotic.

    We're definitely at Defcon Downfall Parodies. Anyone seen one yet?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,218
    MaxPB said:

    So that's my 8 year run in the Conservative party coming to an end.

    @DavidL, @Big_G_NorthWales and other members I hope you do the same. I can't be a member of this party while Boris is leader. His lack of judgement here has been absolutely appalling. The ruling elite can't have a special set of exemptions to rules the rest of us live by, it's just not right.

    This is why I don't join political parties.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,708
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,601
    edited May 2020
    Scott_xP said:
    I don't take much notice of what he says as a journalist because he doesn't even bother to hide the fact that he's a Labour supporter. I prefer journalists who at least make an effort to be impartial.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226
    kjh said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Well done, Boris! Bloody well done! :smile:

    Still defending the indefensible, I see :lol:
    Turns out it was 100% defensible actually! :lol:

    Looks like I was right, and an awful lot of the overly excitable short-termists were wrong. Not for the first time.
    You weren't right, I was.

    He should go. He won't go. No inquiry.
    And that outcome differs from what I've been saying for the last two days how, exactly?
    You failed to offer the first of the holy trinity. That he should go.

    Reason being that you have (as all know) zero intellectual integrity and lack a moral compass.
    I'm afraid a socialist's view of my moral compass is not terribly relevant to me. The fact remains that my thinking was exactly the same as that of Boris, and so I knew early on what had to happen and why, in the face of much angry opposition to the contrary (admittedly not from you).
    Think of me not as a socialist but as a person of uncommon perception whose affection and respect you would like to enjoy.
    Indeed I would, since you're both clever and witty. But I don't change how I present my political views and analysis unless they actually change, no matter how easy it would have been for me to lie and soften my stance as so many others did. I didn't believe that I should, so I didn't.

    Sorry.
    I am duly disarmed.

    But, really, the BJ/DC defence here. You have to be a mug to buy it. I think you know this.
    Just wanted to comment how I have thoroughly enjoyed your posts today kinabula. Excellent stuff today.
    ☺☺☺
  • eekeek Posts: 28,405
    Alistair said:

    The thing is if Big Dom had gone straight away, most people don't know or care who he is. Yes the Guardian and twitter would have been very excited that they got the boogeyman, but it would have no more impact on Boris or government than Prof Pantsdown incident. Especially as Boris was very ill at the time.

    That's the utterly inexplicable bit for me. Six months on the shelf and Doms back.

    Absolutely no harm.

    Why do this except to show you can?
    Because they aren't bright enough to see - that Cummings could leave, sit at home and make suggestions and come back later.

    either that or Boris is in far worse shape than we've been told and his mental capacity has gone the same way as his lung capacity.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,139

    MaxPB said:

    So that's my 8 year run in the Conservative party coming to an end.

    @DavidL, @Big_G_NorthWales and other members I hope you do the same. I can't be a member of this party while Boris is leader. His lack of judgement here has been absolutely appalling. The ruling elite can't have a special set of exemptions to rules the rest of us live by, it's just not right.

    Real respect for you and some of the PB Tories. Clearly misjudged some of you.
    He was in it for 8 years, to be a true PB Tory you must be so for life, not just for Christmas
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    eek said:

    Because they're not infants who think that a single breach of the rules means that we should let the country burn? The lockdown was designed in the full knowledge that 20% or so of the population wouldn't comply with it and it would work anyway.
    One rule for me, another for you oiks / peasants / fools take your pick...

    In one move Boris has destroyed all his credibility. Likewise you have by not seeing the consequences of the initial decision.
    'Credibility' on an internet forum doesn't mean terribly much. I would point out that I was absolutely right about what would actually happen ever since the story broke, but whatever.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381
    murali_s said:

    MaxPB said:

    So that's my 8 year run in the Conservative party coming to an end.

    @DavidL, @Big_G_NorthWales and other members I hope you do the same. I can't be a member of this party while Boris is leader. His lack of judgement here has been absolutely appalling. The ruling elite can't have a special set of exemptions to rules the rest of us live by, it's just not right.

    Respect to you.

    I did the same when antisemitism became endemic under Corbyn.
    I can't believe I am saying this, and it is hard to get to grips with I know, but even Corbyn would have had a fighting chance of being less crap than Boris was today.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,065
    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    tyson said:

    HYUFD said:

    rpjs said:

    Well, this is Boris’s Black Monday. It’s not quite over yet: Starmer will take Boris’s stance apart at the next PMQs. Tory MPs will begin to make noises about grey suits and letter and Cummings will be gone in a week or two.

    But it won’t be enough. The only difference between John Major’s post-Black Monday lame duck administration and Boris Johnson’s post-Coronavirus will be a quarter of a century.

    Enjoy the next four years PB Tories. Another decade or two of Labour government begins in May 2024.

    I doubt it, Starmer might be better than Ed Miliband and Corbyn but he is still polling far lower than Blair was pre 1997 and even John Smith was pre Black Wednesday.

    If he gets in it will likely be with the LDs and SNP, not a 1997 style Labour landslide

    Starmer's only been in for a few weeks.....
    John Smith and Tony Blair had clear poll leads within weeks of becoming leaders of the Labour Party
    So will Starmer after today!
    He won't, the Tories still had a 12% lead yesterday and Yougov had slightly more Tories saying Cummings should not resign than he should

    https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1264296723310141440?s=20
    HYUFD - you are aware that this poll was of opinion on the 21st-22nd of May? That is - before all this hit the news?
    This is largely a media story, it will not move many votes though most voters will think Cummings is an idiot, it is not going to shift many from Tory to Labour or the LDs that will depend more on the state of the economy and how Brexit goes
    All stories are media stories. In this case, though, not merely a media story. There are literally tens of thousands of people out there who can say, and are saying, "My spouse or my parent or grandparent or aunt or uncle died in a care home because the government failed to protect care homes, and died frightened and alone because I obeyed the rules. Now I learn that you disregarded the rules, and the PM is happy with that because of who you are." I would think almost everyone in the country is within two degrees of separation of someone who can say that.

    Today was a definingly terrible day for the government and the conservative party.
    You are not going to switch your vote because Cummings travelled to Barnard Castle for childcare reasons, especially as Boris started to announce further easing of lockdown today.

    You might switch your vote if unemployment rises, taxes go up or because you oppose WTO terms Brexit or the transition period is extended
    I know more about what is going to influence my vote than you do.

    By the way, "COVID-19 is killing young people in Brazil, Mexico and India"


    https://crofsblogs.typepad.com/h5n1/2020/05/covid-19-is-killing-young-people-in-brazil-mexico-and-india-the-washington-post.html

    And many other credible sources. So your thesis that non first world countries would get off lightly because the virus preferentially attacks the very old, turns out to be as wrong as I said it was.
    No it doesn't, as that link shows even in Brazil and Mexico and India the majority of deaths from Covid are in over 50s.

    Brazil, Mexico and India have younger populations on average so obviously a higher percentage of their deaths will be younger than in the West, those younger populations mean they also have fewer Covid deaths per head though than western Europe and the USA
    Woah....Hold on a moment!




    You said it was that because these countries had very few very old people that the pandemic would not be like it is in Europe and the USA. And when I pressed you on whether it's the relative age or the absolute age, you said it was the absolute age that matters. Now you are shifting the goal posts by saying it is the over 50s that matters.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,405
    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    So that's my 8 year run in the Conservative party coming to an end.

    @DavidL, @Big_G_NorthWales and other members I hope you do the same. I can't be a member of this party while Boris is leader. His lack of judgement here has been absolutely appalling. The ruling elite can't have a special set of exemptions to rules the rest of us live by, it's just not right.

    Real respect for you and some of the PB Tories. Clearly misjudged some of you.
    He was in it for 8 years, to be a true PB Tory you must be so for life, not just for Christmas
    Your Donkey avatar is highly appropriate...
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,563
    Nigelb said:

    Either Cummings goes soon, or BJ goes within months. The only time I can remember feeling such a deep sense of utter rage is when I heard about the News of the World tapping Milly Dowler's phone. And we know what happened to the News of the World. You can't cross a line with the British public like Cummings has and expect to survive. This isn't party politics or Leave Vs Remain. This is crossing a fundamental line of decent behaviour. Incredible they can't see this.

    I was much angrier listening to File on 4 this evening.
    Which confirmed pretty well everything we’ve ben saying about the government treatment of care homes over the last two or three months.
    A very good friend and colleague Gary Lemin contributed to that programme. He lost his father in a Cornish Care Home a few weeks before your own loss. It was his story as well as yours that convinced me that the Government were criminally accountable for the failings that have led to so many unnecessary deaths.

    Worth noting today the actions of Brent Council who clearly had more sense than most of our political classes and set up a separate care home for those coming out of hospital so they could have a 14 day quarantine before going back into the general care home community. It is so simple and yet seems to have escaped most of those in power.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    Are we going to hear more on here about so-called "Boris Derangement Syndrome" ?
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    Just as well they issued that. Otherwise we might all have continued thinking that it was a properly authorised tweet.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,102
    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    So that's my 8 year run in the Conservative party coming to an end.

    @DavidL, @Big_G_NorthWales and other members I hope you do the same. I can't be a member of this party while Boris is leader. His lack of judgement here has been absolutely appalling. The ruling elite can't have a special set of exemptions to rules the rest of us live by, it's just not right.

    Real respect for you and some of the PB Tories. Clearly misjudged some of you.
    He was in it for 8 years, to be a true PB Tory you must be so for life, not just for Christmas
    Pathetic garbage
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222
    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    So that's my 8 year run in the Conservative party coming to an end.

    @DavidL, @Big_G_NorthWales and other members I hope you do the same. I can't be a member of this party while Boris is leader. His lack of judgement here has been absolutely appalling. The ruling elite can't have a special set of exemptions to rules the rest of us live by, it's just not right.

    This is why I don't join political parties.
    Better to snipe at all of them from the sidelines.
  • SaltireSaltire Posts: 525
    For those who think that this is a media story or a "Westminster bubble" story, when Yougov done their last polling (May 12-13th) on Cummings about 60% of people had an opinion.
    https://twitter.com/chriscurtis94/status/1264135217213775872
    This would indicate that even before this incident that a large majority of people in the country had heard of him. (some people have no opinion of Boris...) More so than some slightly obscure Cabinet minister or back bench MP visiting family when they should not of.

    This is why there is so much anger up and down the country and why there will be in the coming days probably a much great breaking of the lockdown than might of been the case. A sizeable number of people are just going to think if he can do it why not us? It might actually prompt the opening up of the country a bit quicker at least in England whilst some of us in Scotland might still be unable to go back to work until July or August. (That is a whole different thread)

    Still I think that Cummings is going to stay since Boris has backed him so far and the strategy seems to be one of "This will all be over in a few more days and then the focus will be on the schools opening (or not)".
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,357

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    If only people would say nice things about Boris rather than that pesky Scot. Unionists are pathetic insecure creatures.
    It's got the Yoons crawling out from beneath their news-avoiding rocks. I'm sure they'll be firing stiff letters off to STV and the government which licences them.

    Alternatively..

    https://twitter.com/trublu_80/status/1264564185456881666?s=20
    You surely cringed when watching?
    It is becoming embarrassing but for unionists to get it pulled says a lot more about their fear than an innocent if mawkish tweet. Unionists really are crapping it nowadays.
    STV took it down themselves.

    https://twitter.com/ladurantaye/status/1264584961287426056?s=20
    Might have guessed Tory Murray would be involved. SNP keeping getting ever more popular must really rub these losers nose in it.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,139

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    So that's my 8 year run in the Conservative party coming to an end.

    @DavidL, @Big_G_NorthWales and other members I hope you do the same. I can't be a member of this party while Boris is leader. His lack of judgement here has been absolutely appalling. The ruling elite can't have a special set of exemptions to rules the rest of us live by, it's just not right.

    Real respect for you and some of the PB Tories. Clearly misjudged some of you.
    He was in it for 8 years, to be a true PB Tory you must be so for life, not just for Christmas
    Pathetic garbage
    Well you voted for Blair twice.

    You are a Tory leaning floating voter, not really a PB Tory
  • spire2spire2 Posts: 183

    Just as well they issued that. Otherwise we might all have continued thinking that it was a properly authorised tweet.
    perhaps they were following their instincts
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    OllyT said:

    Andrew said:

    Overtaking Italy on the test count for the first time I think. Germany and Spain next (they're doing 50k/60k/75k per day respectively, so it was only a matter of time).


    Pity we're poised to overtake them on the deaths per million stat too.
    And so we have
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205
    Stocky said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    So that's my 8 year run in the Conservative party coming to an end.

    @DavidL, @Big_G_NorthWales and other members I hope you do the same. I can't be a member of this party while Boris is leader. His lack of judgement here has been absolutely appalling. The ruling elite can't have a special set of exemptions to rules the rest of us live by, it's just not right.

    This is why I don't join political parties.
    Better to snipe at all of them from the sidelines.
    Or make a reasoned choice come election time ?
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    Oh absolutely. A plebeian in a similar situation to Cummings would've been told to stay put and suffer, if necessary unto the point of putting the child into care, rather than traversing the length of the country. There was at least one complaint about double standards in the presser, IIRC, involving the tale of a single Mum with a ten-year-old to look after who had stayed at home with the child and had managed not to leave her home at all by virtue of having local volunteers to deliver food parcels.

    Multiply that by many millions, for all the people who didn't make exceptions for themselves to comfort sick and even dying relatives, or to attend funerals, or to shunt their own children around the country, and of various health and social care workers who've isolated from their own households to carry on working, and you appreciate the scale of the problem. Oh, and this:
    If it does turn out that we need an effectively functioning track and trace system to get out of this, and the Government screws it up, then the Cummings debacle will inevitable be cited as one of the causes. And at that juncture one imagines that the men in grey suits will be coming after the Prime Minister himself.
  • HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    So that's my 8 year run in the Conservative party coming to an end.

    @DavidL, @Big_G_NorthWales and other members I hope you do the same. I can't be a member of this party while Boris is leader. His lack of judgement here has been absolutely appalling. The ruling elite can't have a special set of exemptions to rules the rest of us live by, it's just not right.

    Real respect for you and some of the PB Tories. Clearly misjudged some of you.
    He was in it for 8 years, to be a true PB Tory you must be so for life, not just for Christmas
    Pathetic garbage
    Ignore him mate, I respect you.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381
    Pulpstar said:

    I'm not a member of the Tories to leave it but as of now I'll be voting for Starmer till something changes.
    Just seen today's press conference, Johnson has gaslit a nation to save his adviser, simply shocking.

    Putting school children on the line with his reiteration of June 1st for a return to school is a big call. If so much as one returning child contracts Covid-19 or God forbid worse, Johnson is finished.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,601
    It wouldn't have hurt for both Cummings and Johnson to have been a bit more contrite and humble on this.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222
    Saltire said:

    For those who think that this is a media story or a "Westminster bubble" story, when Yougov done their last polling (May 12-13th) on Cummings about 60% of people had an opinion.
    https://twitter.com/chriscurtis94/status/1264135217213775872
    This would indicate that even before this incident that a large majority of people in the country had heard of him. (some people have no opinion of Boris...) More so than some slightly obscure Cabinet minister or back bench MP visiting family when they should not of.

    This is why there is so much anger up and down the country and why there will be in the coming days probably a much great breaking of the lockdown than might of been the case. A sizeable number of people are just going to think if he can do it why not us? It might actually prompt the opening up of the country a bit quicker at least in England whilst some of us in Scotland might still be unable to go back to work until July or August. (That is a whole different thread)

    Still I think that Cummings is going to stay since Boris has backed him so far and the strategy seems to be one of "This will all be over in a few more days and then the focus will be on the schools opening (or not)".

    The government have been trying to nudge us out of hiding to get the economy going, as you know. So where you say "probably a much greater breaking of the lockdown than might of been the case": maybe a unexpected plus from this shitstorm? A cynic may wonder whether this was planned?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,139
    eristdoof said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    tyson said:

    HYUFD said:

    rpjs said:

    Well, this is Boris’s Black Monday. It’s not quite over yet: Starmer will take Boris’s stance apart at the next PMQs. Tory MPs will begin to make noises about grey suits and letter and Cummings will be gone in a week or two.

    But it won’t be enough. The only difference between John Major’s post-Black Monday lame duck administration and Boris Johnson’s post-Coronavirus will be a quarter of a century.

    Enjoy the next four years PB Tories. Another decade or two of Labour government begins in May 2024.

    I doubt it, Starmer might be better than Ed Miliband and Corbyn but he is still polling far lower than Blair was pre 1997 and even John Smith was pre Black Wednesday.

    If he gets in it will likely be with the LDs and SNP, not a 1997 style Labour landslide

    Starmer's only been in for a few weeks.....
    John Smith and Tony Blair had clear poll leads within weeks of becoming leaders of the Labour Party
    So will Starmer after today!
    He won't, the Tories still had a 12% lead yesterday and Yougov had slightly more Tories saying Cummings should not resign than he should

    https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1264296723310141440?s=20
    HYUFD - you are aware that this poll was of opinion on the 21st-22nd of May? That is - before all this hit the news?
    This is largely a media story, it will not move many votes though most voters will think Cummings is an idiot, it is not going to shift many from Tory to Labour or the LDs that will depend more on the state of the economy and how Brexit goes
    All stories are media stories. In this case, though, not merely a media story. There are literally tens of thousands of people out there who can say, and are saying, "My spouse or my parent or grandparent or aunt or uncle died in a care home because the government failed to protect care homes, and died frightened and alone because I obeyed the rules. Now I learn that you disregarded the rules, and the PM is happy with that because of who you are." I would think almost everyone in the country is within two degrees of separation of someone who can say that.

    Today was a definingly terrible day for the government and the conservative party.
    You are not going to switch your vote because Cummings travelled to Barnard Castle for childcare reasons, especially as Boris started to announce further easing of lockdown today.

    You might switch your vote if unemployment rises, taxes go up or because you oppose WTO terms Brexit or the transition period is extended
    I know more about what is going to influence my vote than you do.

    By the way, "COVID-19 is killing young people in Brazil, Mexico and India"


    https://crofsblogs.typepad.com/h5n1/2020/05/covid-19-is-killing-young-people-in-brazil-mexico-and-india-the-washington-post.html

    And many other credible sources. So your thesis that non first world countries would get off lightly because the virus preferentially attacks the very old, turns out to be as wrong as I said it was.
    No it doesn't, as that link shows even in Brazil and Mexico and India the majority of deaths from Covid are in over 50s.

    Brazil, Mexico and India have younger populations on average so obviously a higher percentage of their deaths will be younger than in the West, those younger populations mean they also have fewer Covid deaths per head though than western Europe and the USA
    Woah....Hold on a moment!




    You said it was that because these countries had very few very old people that the pandemic would not be like it is in Europe and the USA. And when I pressed you on whether it's the relative age or the absolute age, you said it was the absolute age that matters. Now you are shifting the goal posts by saying it is the over 50s that matters.
    Percentage wise they do have fewer older people than the West and a lower median age of population, hence not one developing country is in the top 5 for Covid deaths per head
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    Stocky said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    So that's my 8 year run in the Conservative party coming to an end.

    @DavidL, @Big_G_NorthWales and other members I hope you do the same. I can't be a member of this party while Boris is leader. His lack of judgement here has been absolutely appalling. The ruling elite can't have a special set of exemptions to rules the rest of us live by, it's just not right.

    This is why I don't join political parties.
    Better to snipe at all of them from the sidelines.
    Mistakes get made, things happen. One of the things the Tory Party is supposed to be good at is getting rid of a leader when necessary. That time is now.
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006
    edited May 2020

    Max Hastings, exactly 11 months ago, wrote this:

    "Johnson would not recognise truth, whether about his private or political life, if confronted by it in an identity parade."

    "Almost the only people who think Johnson a nice guy are those who do not know him."

    "If the opposition was led by anybody else [but Corbyn], the Tories would be deservedly doomed, because we would all vote for it. As it is, the Johnson premiership could survive for three or four years, shambling from one embarrassment and debacle to another, of which Brexit may prove the least".

    "We can scarcely strip the emperor’s clothes from a man who has built a career, or at least a lurid love life, out of strutting without them... I have a hunch that Johnson will come to regret securing the prize for which he has struggled so long, because the experience of the premiership will lay bare his absolute unfitness for it."

    "Blame will rest with the Conservative party, which is about to foist a tasteless joke upon the British people – who will not find it funny for long."

    Today, I suspect, is the day the laughter stopped.

    Very prescient comment by Hastings. I doubt he expected to be proved right quite so soon.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,405
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    So that's my 8 year run in the Conservative party coming to an end.

    @DavidL, @Big_G_NorthWales and other members I hope you do the same. I can't be a member of this party while Boris is leader. His lack of judgement here has been absolutely appalling. The ruling elite can't have a special set of exemptions to rules the rest of us live by, it's just not right.

    Real respect for you and some of the PB Tories. Clearly misjudged some of you.
    He was in it for 8 years, to be a true PB Tory you must be so for life, not just for Christmas
    Pathetic garbage
    Well you voted for Blair twice.

    You are a Tory leaning floating voter, not really a PB Tory
    And the rats tied in the sack are already attacking each other.

  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    So that's my 8 year run in the Conservative party coming to an end.

    @DavidL, @Big_G_NorthWales and other members I hope you do the same. I can't be a member of this party while Boris is leader. His lack of judgement here has been absolutely appalling. The ruling elite can't have a special set of exemptions to rules the rest of us live by, it's just not right.

    Real respect for you and some of the PB Tories. Clearly misjudged some of you.
    He was in it for 8 years, to be a true PB Tory you must be so for life, not just for Christmas
    Pathetic garbage
    Well you voted for Blair twice.

    You are a Tory leaning floating voter, not really a PB Tory
    People have a past. To be a Tory you don't need to have been a Tory all your life, being one now would be enough.

    You do realise Churchill wasn't always a Tory don't you?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,102
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    So that's my 8 year run in the Conservative party coming to an end.

    @DavidL, @Big_G_NorthWales and other members I hope you do the same. I can't be a member of this party while Boris is leader. His lack of judgement here has been absolutely appalling. The ruling elite can't have a special set of exemptions to rules the rest of us live by, it's just not right.

    Real respect for you and some of the PB Tories. Clearly misjudged some of you.
    He was in it for 8 years, to be a true PB Tory you must be so for life, not just for Christmas
    Pathetic garbage
    Well you voted for Blair twice.

    You are a Tory leaning floating voter, not really a PB Tory
    You are a very sad individual talking to someone who has given more years of loyal service to the party than you have ever done

    Just a newby who voted remain
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    Someone's getting the sack over this business, but it ain't Cummings.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,908
    Andy_JS said:

    It wouldn't have hurt for both Cummings and Johnson to have been a bit more contrite and humble on this.

    That's not really Boris though is it? He's more bluster and BS.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222
    tlg86 said:

    Stocky said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    So that's my 8 year run in the Conservative party coming to an end.

    @DavidL, @Big_G_NorthWales and other members I hope you do the same. I can't be a member of this party while Boris is leader. His lack of judgement here has been absolutely appalling. The ruling elite can't have a special set of exemptions to rules the rest of us live by, it's just not right.

    This is why I don't join political parties.
    Better to snipe at all of them from the sidelines.
    Mistakes get made, things happen. One of the things the Tory Party is supposed to be good at is getting rid of a leader when necessary. That time is now.
    Who is your money on?
  • @HYUFD You've posted some absolute drivel today. Embarrassing.
  • NorthofStokeNorthofStoke Posts: 1,758
    I think they will both be gone in a few months at the most. The only way Boris will survive is if Cummings falls on his sword after new revelations, even so not sure that is enough. Could be face saving illness excuse. Boris's reputation is shot and he looks out of his depth.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    edited May 2020

    MaxPB said:

    So that's my 8 year run in the Conservative party coming to an end.

    @DavidL, @Big_G_NorthWales and other members I hope you do the same. I can't be a member of this party while Boris is leader. His lack of judgement here has been absolutely appalling. The ruling elite can't have a special set of exemptions to rules the rest of us live by, it's just not right.

    I have withdrawn my support for Boris tonight.

    His performance was a car crash and I am ashamed, as indeed is my good lady

    I hope he stands down or the 1922 take action

    I am not resigning as I want a vote when Boris goes to have time with Carrie
    At least when it comes to the PB end of year flaky flip-flopper of 2020 award, Eadric will now have a runner up...
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    FF43 said:

    Are we going to hear more on here about so-called "Boris Derangement Syndrome" ?

    Yes, there's an awful lot of it about. But the frothing will subside as the country moves on and we get back to the serious business of beating the virus and saving the economy.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,065
    IshmaelZ said:

    Scott_xP said:
    If they are so sure then post a picture of his car at the castle.

    If not then it is utter bollocks
    Sorry, how does that work? My car is parked in front of my house. I have no photograph of it. Is my claim utter bollocks?
    I think he meant to post on facebook "Photo or it didn't happen"
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,878
    Remember, this is Boris talking about "integrity"!
This discussion has been closed.