VAT to 22% (still within *current* Euro norms), abolition of CGT Relief on Main Residences, catch-up on fuel duty and abolition of Triple Lock should raise 75 bn a year or so.
Of those, it would be nice if the VAT change had a sunset clause after 3 years.
But I would trust them to do that as far as I can throw the moon.
It's all kite flying. The government would be mad to do anything other than turn current emergency covid-19 spending into very long term debt. The bigger issue is going to be funding increased - and entirely essential - spending in areas like health, social care and eduction once the immediate crisis ends.
VAT to 22% (still within *current* Euro norms), abolition of CGT Relief on Main Residences, catch-up on fuel duty and abolition of Triple Lock should raise 75 bn a year or so.
Of those, it would be nice if the VAT change had a sunset clause after 3 years.
But I would trust them to do that as far as I can throw the moon.
It's all kite flying. The government would be mad to do anything other than turn current emergency covid-19 spending into very long term debt.
Ummm, Joff...I think there might be a flaw in your reasoning there.
VAT to 22% (still within *current* Euro norms), abolition of CGT Relief on Main Residences, catch-up on fuel duty and abolition of Triple Lock should raise 75 bn a year or so.
Of those, it would be nice if the VAT change had a sunset clause after 3 years.
But I would trust them to do that as far as I can throw the moon.
It's all kite flying. The government would be mad to do anything other than turn current emergency covid-19 spending into very long term debt.
Ummm, Joff...I think there might be a flaw in your reasoning there.
It's early, so can you expain what it is?
You have implied the government will take a course of action because ‘they would be mad’ to do anything else.
This does however start from the premise that they are pragmatic and/or sane.
No. It's good manners to wash your hands, not cough or sneeze over others, stay at home if you're unwell and treat others with respect.
Covering your face with a mask is a bit rude and lazy, scares children, and prevents basic daily quality social interactions.
*****
Tyson is completely right. Wear a mask and protect your fellow citizens you stupid selfish c*nt
No. I will not wear a mask. Never...
Religious objection ?
I think by and large that masks are a pointless placebo. They only work in specific and very given close proximity situations.
Wearing them in general otherwise is just a sign of a nervous and personally insecure person who fears losing control - and just wants to be seen to be doing "something" - and make themselves feel better, and also feel superior to others.
It is therefore that which is the truly selfish act: it socially isolates you, as well as others, takes the equipment away from others who might really need it and prevents society returning to anything like normal. We all have no social interaction indoors. The last thing we want when we're outside is also having no-one to see and talk to.
I'd prefer being behind a screen or wearing a transparent visor (if necessary) to covering your face. Obscuring your face is horrible.
It's funny. There used to be a regular poster on here who was a successful international author who used to make similar arguments about face coverings but he seems to have disappeared now.
Beyond parody.
Do you have an argument, or just ad hominem?
You already know the argument very well. The virus is spread by water droplets. Face coverings will stop a lot of larger droplets.
Right, so you don't have an argument. You just want to row in behind whoever you think is better able to make it on this site than you are.
I advise you not to make it quite so obvious when you're trying to wind people up. It's not so effective then.
I'm not trying to wind people up. It's my sincerely held view. Deal with it.
There will be lots of others that agree with me. They won't be saying so on here because they fear abuse from the likes of you and others (like "Eadric") but masks are both wildly unpopular and disliked.
My wife and I have struggled with our mental health during this lockdown. One of our few pleasures has been to get out and about and see another face. We've stopped to talk to old ladies, single mums, middle-aged gentlemen and shopkeepers (always from 2-3m away) and seen smiles, laughs and smirks (both from a distance and up close) that have truly brightened our day. We've felt people being both open and approachable, where we've felt those with masks cowering and fearful - neither wanting to speak to or interact with anyone.
Mass maskwearing is a dark place. I think it's unnecessary, ineffective and socially isolating and makes society a worse rather than a better place.
I know my points are chiming home because those who oppose them are responding with personal abuse, which is always a sign you're onto something.
Interesting paper out by Nic Lewis today, didn't understand it all but he's come to the conclusion (using plenty of maths) that an inhomogenous population achieves herd immunity better than a homogeneous one.
Probably a fifth measure of reviewing the Barnet formula as part of a devolution review.
Is not the Scottish Subsidy the best part of 10bn a year now?
*innocent face*
It would be quite the break with precedent if Unionist parties stopped showing their decades long cowardice over looking at their own back-of-a-fag-packet convention.
Mr. W, when cars are much safer than public transport it would be 'brave' to increase the cost of running them.
Interesting thought.
But I think that reduction in distance travelled, increased use of e-cars which are cheaper to run (eg my solar panels alone generate the 'lecky that would cover 20k miles a year), and the intended transition to walking / using bikes would compensate many times over.
Probably a fifth measure of reviewing the Barnet formula as part of a devolution review.
Is not the Scottish Subsidy the best part of 10bn a year now?
*innocent face*
It would be quite the break with precedent if Unionist parties stopped showing their decades long cowardice over looking at their own back-of-a-fag-packet convention.
Personally I'd certainly be up for a review looking towards a more federal structure.
VAT to 22% (still within *current* Euro norms), abolition of CGT Relief on Main Residences, catch-up on fuel duty and abolition of Triple Lock should raise 75 bn a year or so.
Of those, it would be nice if the VAT change had a sunset clause after 3 years.
But I would trust them to do that as far as I can throw the moon.
It's all kite flying. The government would be mad to do anything other than turn current emergency covid-19 spending into very long term debt.
Ummm, Joff...I think there might be a flaw in your reasoning there.
It's early, so can you expain what it is?
You have implied the government will take a course of action because ‘they would be mad’ to do anything else.
This does however start from the premise that they are pragmatic and/or sane.
Well they gave up on trying to get widespread testing as well.
August, 2020: England has a quarantine border to stop the Welsh coming in. Scotland has a quarantine border to stop the English coming in.
I don't know what it is about the Welsh but the first thing they do when they go on holiday in South West England in the summer is hoist a giant St.David's flag wherever they're staying.
The caravan and camping parks end up absolutely full of them, and then they end up getting wasted.
I daresay you don't get that many folk from the West of Scotland getting as far as the south west, but if you did..
Probably a fifth measure of reviewing the Barnet formula as part of a devolution review.
Is not the Scottish Subsidy the best part of 10bn a year now?
*innocent face*
It would be quite the break with precedent if Unionist parties stopped showing their decades long cowardice over looking at their own back-of-a-fag-packet convention.
Personally I'd certainly be up for a review looking towards a more federal structure.
I'd also take it as a constructive step, unfortunately long years of experience have taught me that UK politicians only talk federalism when they're out of power.
No. It's good manners to wash your hands, not cough or sneeze over others, stay at home if you're unwell and treat others with respect.
Covering your face with a mask is a bit rude and lazy, scares children, and prevents basic daily quality social interactions.
*****
Tyson is completely right. Wear a mask and protect your fellow citizens you stupid selfish c*nt
No. I will not wear a mask. Never...
Religious objection ?
I think by and large that masks are a pointless placebo. They only work in specific and very given close proximity situations.
Wearing them in general otherwise is just a sign of a nervous and personally insecure person who fears losing control - and just wants to be seen to be doing "something" - and make themselves feel better, and also feel superior to others.
It is therefore that which is the truly selfish act: it socially isolates you, as well as others, takes the equipment away from others who might really need it and prevents society returning to anything like normal. We all have no social interaction indoors. The last thing we want when we're outside is also having no-one to see and talk to.
I'd prefer being behind a screen or wearing a transparent visor (if necessary) to covering your face. Obscuring your face is horrible.
It's funny. There used to be a regular poster on here who was a successful international author who used to make similar arguments about face coverings but he seems to have disappeared now.
Beyond parody.
Do you have an argument, or just ad hominem?
You already know the argument very well. The virus is spread by water droplets. Face coverings will stop a lot of larger droplets.
Right, so you don't have an argument. You just want to row in behind whoever you think is better able to make it on this site than you are.
I advise you not to make it quite so obvious when you're trying to wind people up. It's not so effective then.
I'm not trying to wind people up. It's my sincerely held view. Deal with it.
There will be lots of others that agree with me. They won't be saying so on here because they fear abuse from the likes of you and others (like "Eadric") but masks are both wildly unpopular and disliked.
My wife and I have struggled with our mental health during this lockdown. One of our few pleasures has been to get out and about and see another face. We've stopped to talk to old ladies, single mums, middle-aged gentlemen and shopkeepers (always from 2-3m away) and seen smiles, laughs and smirks (both from a distance and up close) that have truly brightened our day. We've felt people being both open and approachable, where we've felt those with masks cowering and fearful - neither wanting to speak to or interact with anyone.
Mass maskwearing is a dark place. I think it's unnecessary, ineffective and socially isolating and makes society a worse rather than a better place.
I know my points are chiming home because those who oppose them are responding with personal abuse, which is always a sign you're onto something.
Sympathise. It's not a good, or friendly look. Neither party needs a mask, of course, when talking with people the other side of the road, or even from footpath to the middle of the road, but if one is likely to be closer, one does. Up until now I've not felt threatened in my locality, but now I've come across someone locally who has actually suffered with the virus, I'm beginning to think that it might be an idea. Yes, I know it's to stop me transmitting, but how, without a test, do I know I'm not a symptom-free transmitter?
Following on from last thread about no real message from government about giving up smoking.
What does seem clear, being a fatty really isnt a good idea with CV.
I remember when asked about should people try to lose weight at one of the press conference. Lady Egghead, just went well diets aren't good idea really, need full change of lifestyle, which is very hard thing to do.
Brilliant, well done, just tell everybody its too hard, so don't bother.
Weight loss isn't always healthy, but I agree with you in the sense that it would have given people more of a sense of control over circumstances and probably been positive if only for that reason.
Ironically, it appears that, while obesity is a very bad co-morbidity to have with COVID, not eating might also be associated with bad outcomes for COVID. There is some apocryphal evidence that many who have been hospitalized have, along with creeping hypoxia, not been eating well for days ahead of hospitalization and so are malnourished. So the time to have dieted was before the pandemic, not during it ...
A bit less alcohol and a bit more exercise is the best way to lose weight in my experience.
No. It's good manners to wash your hands, not cough or sneeze over others, stay at home if you're unwell and treat others with respect.
Covering your face with a mask is a bit rude and lazy, scares children, and prevents basic daily quality social interactions.
*****
Tyson is completely right. Wear a mask and protect your fellow citizens you stupid selfish c*nt
No. I will not wear a mask. Never...
Religious objection ?
I think by and large that masks are a pointless placebo. They only work in specific and very given close proximity situations.
Wearing them in general otherwise is just a sign of a nervous and personally insecure person who fears losing control - and just wants to be seen to be doing "something" - and make themselves feel better, and also feel superior to others.
It is therefore that which is the truly selfish act: it socially isolates you, as well as others, takes the equipment away from others who might really need it and prevents society returning to anything like normal. We all have no social interaction indoors. The last thing we want when we're outside is also having no-one to see and talk to.
I'd prefer being behind a screen or wearing a transparent visor (if necessary) to covering your face. Obscuring your face is horrible.
It's funny. There used to be a regular poster on here who was a successful international author who used to make similar arguments about face coverings but he seems to have disappeared now.
Beyond parody.
Do you have an argument, or just ad hominem?
You already know the argument very well. The virus is spread by water droplets. Face coverings will stop a lot of larger droplets.
Right, so you don't have an argument. You just want to row in behind whoever you think is better able to make it on this site than you are.
I advise you not to make it quite so obvious when you're trying to wind people up. It's not so effective then.
I'm not trying to wind people up. It's my sincerely held view. Deal with it.
There will be lots of others that agree with me. They won't be saying so on here because they fear abuse from the likes of you and others (like "Eadric") but masks are both wildly unpopular and disliked.
My wife and I have struggled with our mental health during this lockdown. One of our few pleasures has been to get out and about and see another face. We've stopped to talk to old ladies, single mums, middle-aged gentlemen and shopkeepers (always from 2-3m away) and seen smiles, laughs and smirks (both from a distance and up close) that have truly brightened our day. We've felt people being both open and approachable, where we've felt those with masks cowering and fearful - neither wanting to speak to or interact with anyone.
Mass maskwearing is a dark place. I think it's unnecessary, ineffective and socially isolating and makes society a worse rather than a better place.
I know my points are chiming home because those who oppose them are responding with personal abuse, which is always a sign you're onto something.
Traveling in Japan (in the good old days- remember than?) I found the mask wearing to be offensively anti-social. Yet, when Bozza tells me to wear one because the science dictates it would be anti social not to wear one.
The main issue I have with this model is that the final 'stable' state isn't really stable.
Think of it as the survivors locked in the mall, with the zombies outside.
All you need is one* mixing event - such as my trip to Tescos on a busier Monday afternoon, rather than a Monday morning - and you have that guy with a scratch and a fever insisting that they're fine.
*I mean, really you need more than one and I'm just going back to my house, so it won't be that. However, you get the point**. So mass gatherings, sporting events, celebrations, congas etc will be what I'd look out for.
Small wonder Boris is looking so glum. Ladbrokes have him at surprisingly short odds of 4/1 to be replaced as Prime Minister this year. He's on offer at 8/1 to go next year and at the same odds for 2022. One might be tempted to laugh at such odds, the trouble is that Laddies' Shadsy has invariably shown himself to be very shrewd when setting such odds. One thing's for sure, Boris really needs to up his game and soon. His performance throughout this year, even making due allowance for his serious illness, has been lamentable and continues to be so.
Boris is smart. He now knows that he will be the coronavirus prime minister, not the heroic Brexit-delivering prime minister he wanted. He will be associated with plague, death, disease and national failure, followed by huge tax hikes, massive austerity, and severe restrictions on civil liberties
It is the opposite of everything he believes and desires. Everything he stands for. He will be monumentally bored.
He has a cast iron excuse to stand down in a few months, because of ill health. And he can spend more time boffing his moderately pretty young wife and dandling his new baby.
I predict he will go, soon after Brexit in the New Year
Do you think his young mistress will still want him if he steps down?
He doesn't look the sort to change a nappy or do a 2 AM feed.
For all you dislike Boris I am surprised that you do not recognise she is not his mistress, but fiancee and they are due to be married shortly
Boris has lots of faults but maybe more respect for Carrie and his son would not go amiss
G , it is impossible to polish a turd I am afraid.
Probably a fifth measure of reviewing the Barnet formula as part of a devolution review.
Is not the Scottish Subsidy the best part of 10bn a year now?
*innocent face*
It would be quite the break with precedent if Unionist parties stopped showing their decades long cowardice over looking at their own back-of-a-fag-packet convention.
Personally I'd certainly be up for a review looking towards a more federal structure.
I would like to see the case for a more federal structure, but in the end it is up to the peoples of the various parts of these islands to determine their own futures. Those who want to keep the UK together need to do a far better job of selling that than they are doing at the moment. We do not have a written consitution that can keep the lid on separation, everything depends on consent. That, ultimately, is a good thing.
Well they gave up on trying to get widespread testing as well.
August, 2020: England has a quarantine border to stop the Welsh coming in. Scotland has a quarantine border to stop the English coming in.
I don't know what it is about the Welsh but the first thing they do when they go on holiday in South West England in the summer is hoist a giant St.David's flag wherever they're staying.
The caravan and camping parks end up absolutely full of them, and then they end up getting wasted.
I daresay you don't get that many folk from the West of Scotland getting as far as the south west, but if you did..
Small wonder Boris is looking so glum. Ladbrokes have him at surprisingly short odds of 4/1 to be replaced as Prime Minister this year. He's on offer at 8/1 to go next year and at the same odds for 2022. One might be tempted to laugh at such odds, the trouble is that Laddies' Shadsy has invariably shown himself to be very shrewd when setting such odds. One thing's for sure, Boris really needs to up his game and soon. His performance throughout this year, even making due allowance for his serious illness, has been lamentable and continues to be so.
Boris is smart. He now knows that he will be the coronavirus prime minister, not the heroic Brexit-delivering prime minister he wanted. He will be associated with plague, death, disease and national failure, followed by huge tax hikes, massive austerity, and severe restrictions on civil liberties
It is the opposite of everything he believes and desires. Everything he stands for. He will be monumentally bored.
He has a cast iron excuse to stand down in a few months, because of ill health. And he can spend more time boffing his moderately pretty young wife and dandling his new baby.
I predict he will go, soon after Brexit in the New Year
Do you think his young mistress will still want him if he steps down?
He doesn't look the sort to change a nappy or do a 2 AM feed.
Don't people have staff for such things?
Could Boris be trusted with the au pair? A good question indeed.
No. It's good manners to wash your hands, not cough or sneeze over others, stay at home if you're unwell and treat others with respect.
Covering your face with a mask is a bit rude and lazy, scares children, and prevents basic daily quality social interactions.
*****
Tyson is completely right. Wear a mask and protect your fellow citizens you stupid selfish c*nt
No. I will not wear a mask. Never...
Religious objection ?
I think by and large that masks are a pointless placebo. They only work in specific and very given close proximity situations.
Wearing them in general otherwise is just a sign of a nervous and personally insecure person who fears losing control - and just wants to be seen to be doing "something" - and make themselves feel better, and also feel superior to others.
It is therefore that which is the truly selfish act: it socially isolates you, as well as others, takes the equipment away from others who might really need it and prevents society returning to anything like normal. We all have no social interaction indoors. The last thing we want when we're outside is also having no-one to see and talk to.
I'd prefer being behind a screen or wearing a transparent visor (if necessary) to covering your face. Obscuring your face is horrible.
It's funny. There used to be a regular poster on here who was a successful international author who used to make similar arguments about face coverings but he seems to have disappeared now.
Beyond parody.
Do you have an argument, or just ad hominem?
You already know the argument very well. The virus is spread by water droplets. Face coverings will stop a lot of larger droplets.
Right, so you don't have an argument. You just want to row in behind whoever you think is better able to make it on this site than you are.
Social distancing (or isolation if infected) is far more effective in managing infection risk that than mask wearing.
I'm far more worried about people with crap sweaty masks constantly touching their face, adjusting them and then touching surfaces thereafter.
Is there a place for masks? Sure: in very specific close proximity situations representing high risk.
But not in general - no - where they take away far more than they add, and even subtract something.
I am fairly sceptical about public use of masks.
There is a genuine issue of supply, and poor technique is very frequent.
While they may have some benefit in preventing transmission, they have limited effect on protecting the individual.
They are banned in non patient facing areas of our hospital (where social distancing is also problematic!).
They do have 2 useful social effects though: to keep people mindful of other aspects of hygiene; and also do seem to give people the confidence to venture out into a hazardous environment. Both of these effects will be useful for normal service to resume in the economy.
The government won’t go through with Real Brexit on 31 Dec, I don’t think. They’ll find a way (probably with the help of Macron) in fudging through some lengthy extension to the transition.
The French quarantine exception might help lay the groundwork.
They will. The whole cabinet was appointed for their kamikaze like devotion go No Deal Brexit.
The absence of work on preparing an Irish Sea border shows that they cannot be trusted to keep their word on treaties. Who would be fool enough to sign another?
We will Brexit on December 31 or thereabouts because any delay means we could be on the hook for the inevitable huge corona bail outs. Over which we will have no say.
Moreover it looks like the eurozone is headed for an epochal bust up thanks to the German courts. We will flee for the exit when there is still time
Conversely they would be responsible for our massive deficit which will likely be the biggest and best in EU, more likely they will be locking the doors and drawing up the bridge.
A lot of that will be to do with when we went into full lockdown. It was basically the last week in March, wasn't it? Although clearly things had been slowing down before that.
No. It's good manners to wash your hands, not cough or sneeze over others, stay at home if you're unwell and treat others with respect.
Covering your face with a mask is a bit rude and lazy, scares children, and prevents basic daily quality social interactions.
*****
Tyson is completely right. Wear a mask and protect your fellow citizens you stupid selfish c*nt
No. I will not wear a mask. Never...
Religious objection ?
I think by and large that masks are a pointless placebo. They only work in specific and very given close proximity situations.
Wearing them in general otherwise is just a sign of a nervous and personally insecure person who fears losing control - and just wants to be seen to be doing "something" - and make themselves feel better, and also feel superior to others.
It is therefore that which is the truly selfish act: it socially isolates you, as well as others, takes the equipment away from others who might really need it and prevents society returning to anything like normal. We all have no social interaction indoors. The last thing we want when we're outside is also having no-one to see and talk to.
I'd prefer being behind a screen or wearing a transparent visor (if necessary) to covering your face. Obscuring your face is horrible.
It's funny. There used to be a regular poster on here who was a successful international author who used to make similar arguments about face coverings but he seems to have disappeared now.
Beyond parody.
Do you have an argument, or just ad hominem?
You already know the argument very well. The virus is spread by water droplets. Face coverings will stop a lot of larger droplets.
Right, so you don't have an argument. You just want to row in behind whoever you think is better able to make it on this site than you are.
Social distancing (or isolation if infected) is far more effective in managing infection risk that than mask wearing.
I'm far more worried about people with crap sweaty masks constantly touching their face, adjusting them and then touching surfaces thereafter.
Is there a place for masks? Sure: in very specific close proximity situations representing high risk.
But not in general - no - where they take away far more than they add, and even subtract something.
I am fairly sceptical about public use of masks.
There is a genuine issue of supply, and poor technique is very frequent.
While they may have some benefit in preventing transmission, they have limited effect on protecting the individual.
They are banned in non patient facing areas of our hospital (where social distancing is also problematic!).
They do have 2 useful social effects though: to keep people mindful of other aspects of hygiene; and also do seem to give people the confidence to venture out into a hazardous environment. Both of these effects will be useful for normal service to resume in the economy.
If they allowed fans to attend football, but only if they were wearing masks, I wouldn't go.
Well they gave up on trying to get widespread testing as well.
August, 2020: England has a quarantine border to stop the Welsh coming in. Scotland has a quarantine border to stop the English coming in.
I don't know what it is about the Welsh but the first thing they do when they go on holiday in South West England in the summer is hoist a giant St.David's flag wherever they're staying.
The caravan and camping parks end up absolutely full of them, and then they end up getting wasted.
I daresay you don't get that many folk from the West of Scotland getting as far as the south west, but if you did..
Edit: NSFW and probably not safe for your mental health if WFH.
I wasn't prepared for that.
Of course you wouldn't share it on here but I'm sure there are nationalist equivalents of a Braveheart getting his willy out on the anniversary of Bannockburn or something.
You lead an interesting fantasy life.
I assumed that was a reference to Braveheart’s recreation of Stirling Bridge.
Mr. W, walking/bikes aren't suitable for longer journeys.
Raising living costs for people by hiking petrol duty would be foolhardy, both politically and economically.
However most journeys are short, and the annual mileage has decreased substantially over the last years to under 8k. I'm not convinced that an increase in fuel duty - even a "hike" - would be that significant.
Higher mileages are mainly in corporate or company vehicles, which would be distributed across the cost of everything.
10 miles is well under an hour on a pushbike, even if only moderately fit - less on an e-bike. Needs a change of perspective and a resolute move to adjust infrastructure if it is to stick, though.
For example, photo taken yesterday. Putting a modern set of 5 in would cost about £500.
Well they gave up on trying to get widespread testing as well.
August, 2020: England has a quarantine border to stop the Welsh coming in. Scotland has a quarantine border to stop the English coming in.
I don't know what it is about the Welsh but the first thing they do when they go on holiday in South West England in the summer is hoist a giant St.David's flag wherever they're staying.
The caravan and camping parks end up absolutely full of them, and then they end up getting wasted.
I daresay you don't get that many folk from the West of Scotland getting as far as the south west, but if you did..
Well they gave up on trying to get widespread testing as well.
August, 2020: England has a quarantine border to stop the Welsh coming in. Scotland has a quarantine border to stop the English coming in.
I don't know what it is about the Welsh but the first thing they do when they go on holiday in South West England in the summer is hoist a giant St.David's flag wherever they're staying.
The caravan and camping parks end up absolutely full of them, and then they end up getting wasted.
I daresay you don't get that many folk from the West of Scotland getting as far as the south west, but if you did..
Edit: NSFW and probably not safe for your mental health if WFH.
I wasn't prepared for that.
Of course you wouldn't share it on here but I'm sure there are nationalist equivalents of a Braveheart getting his willy out on the anniversary of Bannockburn or something.
You lead an interesting fantasy life.
Nah. We know your views in life are determined by lop-sided sectarian bias that you top-up daily with oodles of confirmation bias, so to expect us to believe this as genuinely representative is rather cute.
Blimey. Somebody got out of bed the wrong side this morning.
Do you have a preferred choice of root vegetable to use as a ballistic weapon? Turnips are already taken.
You know it's serious when the ONS feels the need to publish before the markets open.
Indeed so. I also suspect that the revisions are going to make the numbers worse with time, rather than better as usually happens. Also remember that this is only the data until the end of March, Q2 is going to be a whole lot worse.
No. It's good manners to wash your hands, not cough or sneeze over others, stay at home if you're unwell and treat others with respect.
Covering your face with a mask is a bit rude and lazy, scares children, and prevents basic daily quality social interactions.
*****
Tyson is completely right. Wear a mask and protect your fellow citizens you stupid selfish c*nt
No. I will not wear a mask. Never...
Religious objection ?
I think by and large that masks are a pointless placebo. They only work in specific and very given close proximity situations.
Wearing them in general otherwise is just a sign of a nervous and personally insecure person who fears losing control - and just wants to be seen to be doing "something" - and make themselves feel better, and also feel superior to others.
It is therefore that which is the truly selfish act: it socially isolates you, as well as others, takes the equipment away from others who might really need it and prevents society returning to anything like normal. We all have no social interaction indoors. The last thing we want when we're outside is also having no-one to see and talk to.
I'd prefer being behind a screen or wearing a transparent visor (if necessary) to covering your face. Obscuring your face is horrible.
It's funny. There used to be a regular poster on here who was a successful international author who used to make similar arguments about face coverings but he seems to have disappeared now.
Beyond parody.
Do you have an argument, or just ad hominem?
You already know the argument very well. The virus is spread by water droplets. Face coverings will stop a lot of larger droplets.
Right, so you don't have an argument. You just want to row in behind whoever you think is better able to make it on this site than you are.
Social distancing (or isolation if infected) is far more effective in managing infection risk that than mask wearing.
I'm far more worried about people with crap sweaty masks constantly touching their face, adjusting them and then touching surfaces thereafter.
Is there a place for masks? Sure: in very specific close proximity situations representing high risk.
But not in general - no - where they take away far more than they add, and even subtract something.
I am fairly sceptical about public use of masks.
There is a genuine issue of supply, and poor technique is very frequent.
While they may have some benefit in preventing transmission, they have limited effect on protecting the individual.
They are banned in non patient facing areas of our hospital (where social distancing is also problematic!).
They do have 2 useful social effects though: to keep people mindful of other aspects of hygiene; and also do seem to give people the confidence to venture out into a hazardous environment. Both of these effects will be useful for normal service to resume in the economy.
Yep, that makes sense. Again, in HK what seems to happen is that people wear them outside as a matter of course, but less so inside. In our office, apparently, just about everyone removes them once they are at their desks, though a few do not.
Probably a fifth measure of reviewing the Barnet formula as part of a devolution review.
Is not the Scottish Subsidy the best part of 10bn a year now?
*innocent face*
It would be quite the break with precedent if Unionist parties stopped showing their decades long cowardice over looking at their own back-of-a-fag-packet convention.
Imagine they had to show the real numbers instead of their pretendy ones.
Well they gave up on trying to get widespread testing as well.
August, 2020: England has a quarantine border to stop the Welsh coming in. Scotland has a quarantine border to stop the English coming in.
I don't know what it is about the Welsh but the first thing they do when they go on holiday in South West England in the summer is hoist a giant St.David's flag wherever they're staying.
The caravan and camping parks end up absolutely full of them, and then they end up getting wasted.
I daresay you don't get that many folk from the West of Scotland getting as far as the south west, but if you did..
Edit: NSFW and probably not safe for your mental health if WFH.
I wasn't prepared for that.
Of course you wouldn't share it on here but I'm sure there are nationalist equivalents of a Braveheart getting his willy out on the anniversary of Bannockburn or something.
You lead an interesting fantasy life.
I assumed that was a reference to Braveheart’s recreation of Stirling Bridge.
That is my breakfast back up then.
I didn’t mean to cause you pain. Indeed, I hoped people would laugh and it would Gibson pleasure.
I am a bit doubtful over a second wave. All along we have been bedevilled by trying to stick to a Flu Plan, when this isn't the flu.
I expect this to change from being epidemic to being endemic. The number of inpatients in my Trust has stuck at 150 odd for about 10 days, or 6 wards full. I suspect that will slowly reduce, but that we will smoulder on over most of the summer with patient 3-4 wards full, and 3 figure daily mortality nationally. I see this as one peak with a long fat tail.
No. It's good manners to wash your hands, not cough or sneeze over others, stay at home if you're unwell and treat others with respect.
Covering your face with a mask is a bit rude and lazy, scares children, and prevents basic daily quality social interactions.
*****
Tyson is completely right. Wear a mask and protect your fellow citizens you stupid selfish c*nt
No. I will not wear a mask. Never...
Religious objection ?
I think by and large that masks are a pointless placebo. They only work in specific and very given close proximity situations.
Wearing them in general otherwise is just a sign of a nervous and personally insecure person who fears losing control - and just wants to be seen to be doing "something" - and make themselves feel better, and also feel superior to others.
It is therefore that which is the truly selfish act: it socially isolates you, as well as others, takes the equipment away from others who might really need it and prevents society returning to anything like normal. We all have no social interaction indoors. The last thing we want when we're outside is also having no-one to see and talk to.
I'd prefer being behind a screen or wearing a transparent visor (if necessary) to covering your face. Obscuring your face is horrible.
It's funny. There used to be a regular poster on here who was a successful international author who used to make similar arguments about face coverings but he seems to have disappeared now.
Beyond parody.
Do you have an argument, or just ad hominem?
You already know the argument very well. The virus is spread by water droplets. Face coverings will stop a lot of larger droplets.
Right, so you don't have an argument. You just want to row in behind whoever you think is better able to make it on this site than you are.
Social distancing (or isolation if infected) is far more effective in managing infection risk that than mask wearing.
I'm far more worried about people with crap sweaty masks constantly touching their face, adjusting them and then touching surfaces thereafter.
Is there a place for masks? Sure: in very specific close proximity situations representing high risk.
But not in general - no - where they take away far more than they add, and even subtract something.
I am fairly sceptical about public use of masks.
There is a genuine issue of supply, and poor technique is very frequent.
While they may have some benefit in preventing transmission, they have limited effect on protecting the individual.
They are banned in non patient facing areas of our hospital (where social distancing is also problematic!).
They do have 2 useful social effects though: to keep people mindful of other aspects of hygiene; and also do seem to give people the confidence to venture out into a hazardous environment. Both of these effects will be useful for normal service to resume in the economy.
Yep, that makes sense. Again, in HK what seems to happen is that people wear them outside as a matter of course, but less so inside. In our office, apparently, just about everyone removes them once they are at their desks, though a few do not.
That's utterly ridiculous. Surely they should be worn inside more than outside?
A lot of that will be to do with when we went into full lockdown. It was basically the last week in March, wasn't it? Although clearly things had been slowing down before that.
Probably a fifth measure of reviewing the Barnet formula as part of a devolution review.
Is not the Scottish Subsidy the best part of 10bn a year now?
*innocent face*
It would be quite the break with precedent if Unionist parties stopped showing their decades long cowardice over looking at their own back-of-a-fag-packet convention.
Imagine they had to show the real numbers instead of their pretendy ones.
Now come on Malc. When has any economist or politician ever had real numbers to share on anything?
Well they gave up on trying to get widespread testing as well.
August, 2020: England has a quarantine border to stop the Welsh coming in. Scotland has a quarantine border to stop the English coming in.
I don't know what it is about the Welsh but the first thing they do when they go on holiday in South West England in the summer is hoist a giant St.David's flag wherever they're staying.
The caravan and camping parks end up absolutely full of them, and then they end up getting wasted.
I daresay you don't get that many folk from the West of Scotland getting as far as the south west, but if you did..
No. It's good manners to wash your hands, not cough or sneeze over others, stay at home if you're unwell and treat others with respect.
Covering your face with a mask is a bit rude and lazy, scares children, and prevents basic daily quality social interactions.
*****
Tyson is completely right. Wear a mask and protect your fellow citizens you stupid selfish c*nt
No. I will not wear a mask. Never...
Religious objection ?
I think by and large that masks are a pointless placebo. They only work in specific and very given close proximity situations.
Wearing them in general otherwise is just a sign of a nervous and personally insecure person who fears losing control - and just wants to be seen to be doing "something" - and make themselves feel better, and also feel superior to others.
It is therefore that which is the truly selfish act: it socially isolates you, as well as others, takes the equipment away from others who might really need it and prevents society returning to anything like normal. We all have no social interaction indoors. The last thing we want when we're outside is also having no-one to see and talk to.
I'd prefer being behind a screen or wearing a transparent visor (if necessary) to covering your face. Obscuring your face is horrible.
It's funny. There used to be a regular poster on here who was a successful international author who used to make similar arguments about face coverings but he seems to have disappeared now.
Beyond parody.
Do you have an argument, or just ad hominem?
You already know the argument very well. The virus is spread by water droplets. Face coverings will stop a lot of larger droplets.
Right, so you don't have an argument. You just want to row in behind whoever you think is better able to make it on this site than you are.
Social distancing (or isolation if infected) is far more effective in managing infection risk that than mask wearing.
I'm far more worried about people with crap sweaty masks constantly touching their face, adjusting them and then touching surfaces thereafter.
Is there a place for masks? Sure: in very specific close proximity situations representing high risk.
But not in general - no - where they take away far more than they add, and even subtract something.
I am fairly sceptical about public use of masks.
There is a genuine issue of supply, and poor technique is very frequent.
While they may have some benefit in preventing transmission, they have limited effect on protecting the individual.
They are banned in non patient facing areas of our hospital (where social distancing is also problematic!).
They do have 2 useful social effects though: to keep people mindful of other aspects of hygiene; and also do seem to give people the confidence to venture out into a hazardous environment. Both of these effects will be useful for normal service to resume in the economy.
Yep, that makes sense. Again, in HK what seems to happen is that people wear them outside as a matter of course, but less so inside. In our office, apparently, just about everyone removes them once they are at their desks, though a few do not.
That's utterly ridiculous. Surely they should be worn inside more than outside?
No. It's good manners to wash your hands, not cough or sneeze over others, stay at home if you're unwell and treat others with respect.
Covering your face with a mask is a bit rude and lazy, scares children, and prevents basic daily quality social interactions.
*****
Tyson is completely right. Wear a mask and protect your fellow citizens you stupid selfish c*nt
No. I will not wear a mask. Never...
Religious objection ?
I think by and large that masks are a pointless placebo. They only work in specific and very given close proximity situations.
Wearing them in general otherwise is just a sign of a nervous and personally insecure person who fears losing control - and just wants to be seen to be doing "something" - and make themselves feel better, and also feel superior to others.
It is therefore that which is the truly selfish act: it socially isolates you, as well as others, takes the equipment away from others who might really need it and prevents society returning to anything like normal. We all have no social interaction indoors. The last thing we want when we're outside is also having no-one to see and talk to.
I'd prefer being behind a screen or wearing a transparent visor (if necessary) to covering your face. Obscuring your face is horrible.
It's funny. There used to be a regular poster on here who was a successful international author who used to make similar arguments about face coverings but he seems to have disappeared now.
Beyond parody.
Do you have an argument, or just ad hominem?
You already know the argument very well. The virus is spread by water droplets. Face coverings will stop a lot of larger droplets.
Right, so you don't have an argument. You just want to row in behind whoever you think is better able to make it on this site than you are.
Social distancing (or isolation if infected) is far more effective in managing infection risk that than mask wearing.
I'm far more worried about people with crap sweaty masks constantly touching their face, adjusting them and then touching surfaces thereafter.
Is there a place for masks? Sure: in very specific close proximity situations representing high risk.
But not in general - no - where they take away far more than they add, and even subtract something.
I am fairly sceptical about public use of masks.
There is a genuine issue of supply, and poor technique is very frequent.
While they may have some benefit in preventing transmission, they have limited effect on protecting the individual.
They are banned in non patient facing areas of our hospital (where social distancing is also problematic!).
They do have 2 useful social effects though: to keep people mindful of other aspects of hygiene; and also do seem to give people the confidence to venture out into a hazardous environment. Both of these effects will be useful for normal service to resume in the economy.
Yep, that makes sense. Again, in HK what seems to happen is that people wear them outside as a matter of course, but less so inside. In our office, apparently, just about everyone removes them once they are at their desks, though a few do not.
That's utterly ridiculous. Surely they should be worn inside more than outside?
Speaking purely personally, as a deaf man who lip reads a lot it’s a right bloody pain to have everyone wearing face masks.
Therefore, if they became entrenched in schools it would be impossible to do my job.
Probably a fifth measure of reviewing the Barnet formula as part of a devolution review.
Is not the Scottish Subsidy the best part of 10bn a year now?
*innocent face*
It would be quite the break with precedent if Unionist parties stopped showing their decades long cowardice over looking at their own back-of-a-fag-packet convention.
Personally I'd certainly be up for a review looking towards a more federal structure.
I would like to see the case for a more federal structure, but in the end it is up to the peoples of the various parts of these islands to determine their own futures. Those who want to keep the UK together need to do a far better job of selling that than they are doing at the moment. We do not have a written consitution that can keep the lid on separation, everything depends on consent. That, ultimately, is a good thing.
Westminster will never ever go federal , they make wild promises ( ie lies ) when they are in trouble but always welch on it, just need to look at result after the referendum which they only won due to promising federalism and the gullible mugs fell for it only to be kicked in the face yet again. It will end up in an acrimonious break for certain.
A lot of that will be to do with when we went into full lockdown. It was basically the last week in March, wasn't it? Although clearly things had been slowing down before that.
What those numbers seem to indicate is how quickly things fall off a cliff once lockdown does kick in. The Q2 figures everywhere are going to be utterly horrific, except in China, where they will just be horrible. .
Probably a fifth measure of reviewing the Barnet formula as part of a devolution review.
Is not the Scottish Subsidy the best part of 10bn a year now?
*innocent face*
It would be quite the break with precedent if Unionist parties stopped showing their decades long cowardice over looking at their own back-of-a-fag-packet convention.
Imagine they had to show the real numbers instead of their pretendy ones.
Now come on Malc. When has any economist or politician ever had real numbers to share on anything?
That is for sure , I would bet my shirt on them being unable to show any real numbers.
On taxes I'm with HYUFD on this one. Taxes are not going up before the next general election.
They won't put up taxes while we're still dealing with the immediate Coronacrisis.
They won't put up taxes immediately the medical crisis has passed, as they'll be focused on creating as complete an economic rebound as possible.
They won't put up taxes in the period immediately before the next general election, because that would be politically courageous.
Even on the most optimistic timescale for dealing with the virus and the economic recovery where is the window of opportunity to increase taxes before the spring 2024 general election?
Probably a fifth measure of reviewing the Barnet formula as part of a devolution review.
Is not the Scottish Subsidy the best part of 10bn a year now?
*innocent face*
It would be quite the break with precedent if Unionist parties stopped showing their decades long cowardice over looking at their own back-of-a-fag-packet convention.
Personally I'd certainly be up for a review looking towards a more federal structure.
I would like to see the case for a more federal structure, but in the end it is up to the peoples of the various parts of these islands to determine their own futures. Those who want to keep the UK together need to do a far better job of selling that than they are doing at the moment. We do not have a written consitution that can keep the lid on separation, everything depends on consent. That, ultimately, is a good thing.
If you substituted "looser" for "more federal" and "the EU" for "the UK" and "these islands" would you stick by those principles?
Not that I think that there's any chance of the EU slamming on the brakes to ever closer union, let alone reversing course. I think it will instead suffer further fragmentation as it tries to pursue that course with what's left becoming increasingly dysfunctional. There are many on the left who convinced themselves that it was better to stay in the EU and reform it, indulging in the fantasy that reform was possible rather than face up to a difficult choice.
If its true its because nobody watches it. Set up a pay to view arts channel rather than expect the rest of us to fund something that very few are interested in.
No. It's good manners to wash your hands, not cough or sneeze over others, stay at home if you're unwell and treat others with respect.
Covering your face with a mask is a bit rude and lazy, scares children, and prevents basic daily quality social interactions.
*****
Tyson is completely right. Wear a mask and protect your fellow citizens you stupid selfish c*nt
No. I will not wear a mask. Never...
Religious objection ?
I think by and large that masks are a pointless placebo. They only work in specific and very given close proximity situations.
Wearing them in general otherwise is just a sign of a nervous and personally insecure person who fears losing control - and just wants to be seen to be doing "something" - and make themselves feel better, and also feel superior to others.
It is therefore that which is the truly selfish act: it socially isolates you, as well as others, takes the equipment away from others who might really need it and prevents society returning to anything like normal. We all have no social interaction indoors. The last thing we want when we're outside is also having no-one to see and talk to.
I'd prefer being behind a screen or wearing a transparent visor (if necessary) to covering your face. Obscuring your face is horrible.
It's funny. There used to be a regular poster on here who was a successful international author who used to make similar arguments about face coverings but he seems to have disappeared now.
Beyond parody.
Do you have an argument, or just ad hominem?
You already know the argument very well. The virus is spread by water droplets. Face coverings will stop a lot of larger droplets.
Right, so you don't have an argument. You just want to row in behind whoever you think is better able to make it on this site than you are.
Social distancing (or isolation if infected) is far more effective in managing infection risk that than mask wearing.
I'm far more worried about people with crap sweaty masks constantly touching their face, adjusting them and then touching surfaces thereafter.
Is there a place for masks? Sure: in very specific close proximity situations representing high risk.
But not in general - no - where they take away far more than they add, and even subtract something.
I am fairly sceptical about public use of masks.
There is a genuine issue of supply, and poor technique is very frequent.
While they may have some benefit in preventing transmission, they have limited effect on protecting the individual.
They are banned in non patient facing areas of our hospital (where social distancing is also problematic!).
They do have 2 useful social effects though: to keep people mindful of other aspects of hygiene; and also do seem to give people the confidence to venture out into a hazardous environment. Both of these effects will be useful for normal service to resume in the economy.
Yep, that makes sense. Again, in HK what seems to happen is that people wear them outside as a matter of course, but less so inside. In our office, apparently, just about everyone removes them once they are at their desks, though a few do not.
That's utterly ridiculous. Surely they should be worn inside more than outside?
Agree, in Berlin it seems that almost everyone is wears masks when indoors but not at home, and make that 100% in hospitals, GPs practices and pharmacists. Go outdoors and this drops to less than 50% wearing masks.
Mind you I have not seen whether people in normal offices are wearing masks the whole day.
Well they gave up on trying to get widespread testing as well.
August, 2020: England has a quarantine border to stop the Welsh coming in. Scotland has a quarantine border to stop the English coming in.
I don't know what it is about the Welsh but the first thing they do when they go on holiday in South West England in the summer is hoist a giant St.David's flag wherever they're staying.
The caravan and camping parks end up absolutely full of them, and then they end up getting wasted.
I daresay you don't get that many folk from the West of Scotland getting as far as the south west, but if you did..
The GDP means sod all right now, for reasons already stated by others.
Dr. Foxy, reckon face coverings are useful or not when going out shopping (at neither a huge supermarket nor a pokey corner shop, but somewhere in between)?
When I've been shopping the main measure I've taken is to properly wash my hands both before and after, as well as maintaining distance wherever possible.
Probably a fifth measure of reviewing the Barnet formula as part of a devolution review.
Is not the Scottish Subsidy the best part of 10bn a year now?
*innocent face*
It would be quite the break with precedent if Unionist parties stopped showing their decades long cowardice over looking at their own back-of-a-fag-packet convention.
Personally I'd certainly be up for a review looking towards a more federal structure.
I would like to see the case for a more federal structure, but in the end it is up to the peoples of the various parts of these islands to determine their own futures. Those who want to keep the UK together need to do a far better job of selling that than they are doing at the moment. We do not have a written consitution that can keep the lid on separation, everything depends on consent. That, ultimately, is a good thing.
If you substituted "looser" for "more federal" and "the EU" for "the UK" and "these islands" would you stick by those principles?
Not that I think that there's any chance of the EU slamming on the brakes to ever closer union, let alone reversing course. I think it will instead suffer further fragmentation as it tries to pursue that course with what's left becoming increasingly dysfunctional. There are many on the left who convinced themselves that it was better to stay in the EU and reform it, indulging in the fantasy that reform was possible rather than face up to a difficult choice.
I am so over Brexit! I think it was in the UK's national interest to remain in the EU, but we always retained the right to leave and we did. I wish the case for remaining had been made better. It wasn't, so we are where we are.
No. It's good manners to wash your hands, not cough or sneeze over others, stay at home if you're unwell and treat others with respect.
Covering your face with a mask is a bit rude and lazy, scares children, and prevents basic daily quality social interactions.
*****
Tyson is completely right. Wear a mask and protect your fellow citizens you stupid selfish c*nt
No. I will not wear a mask. Never...
Religious objection ?
I think by and large that masks are a pointless placebo. They only work in specific and very given close proximity situations.
Wearing them in general otherwise is just a sign of a nervous and personally insecure person who fears losing control - and just wants to be seen to be doing "something" - and make themselves feel better, and also feel superior to others.
It is therefore that which is the truly selfish act: it socially isolates you, as well as others, takes the equipment away from others who might really need it and prevents society returning to anything like normal. We all have no social interaction indoors. The last thing we want when we're outside is also having no-one to see and talk to.
I'd prefer being behind a screen or wearing a transparent visor (if necessary) to covering your face. Obscuring your face is horrible.
It's funny. There used to be a regular poster on here who was a successful international author who used to make similar arguments about face coverings but he seems to have disappeared now.
Beyond parody.
Do you have an argument, or just ad hominem?
You already know the argument very well. The virus is spread by water droplets. Face coverings will stop a lot of larger droplets.
Right, so you don't have an argument. You just want to row in behind whoever you think is better able to make it on this site than you are.
Social distancing (or isolation if infected) is far more effective in managing infection risk that than mask wearing.
I'm far more worried about people with crap sweaty masks constantly touching their face, adjusting them and then touching surfaces thereafter.
Is there a place for masks? Sure: in very specific close proximity situations representing high risk.
But not in general - no - where they take away far more than they add, and even subtract something.
I am fairly sceptical about public use of masks.
There is a genuine issue of supply, and poor technique is very frequent.
While they may have some benefit in preventing transmission, they have limited effect on protecting the individual.
They are banned in non patient facing areas of our hospital (where social distancing is also problematic!).
They do have 2 useful social effects though: to keep people mindful of other aspects of hygiene; and also do seem to give people the confidence to venture out into a hazardous environment. Both of these effects will be useful for normal service to resume in the economy.
If they allowed fans to attend football, but only if they were wearing masks, I wouldn't go.
I would.
Indeed it wouldn't surprise me to see King Power branded facemasks with my new season ticket! Our Thai owners are great, but must be squeezed financially. Their business is Duty Free shops.
Well they gave up on trying to get widespread testing as well.
August, 2020: England has a quarantine border to stop the Welsh coming in. Scotland has a quarantine border to stop the English coming in.
I don't know what it is about the Welsh but the first thing they do when they go on holiday in South West England in the summer is hoist a giant St.David's flag wherever they're staying.
The caravan and camping parks end up absolutely full of them, and then they end up getting wasted.
I daresay you don't get that many folk from the West of Scotland getting as far as the south west, but if you did..
I am a bit doubtful over a second wave. All along we have been bedevilled by trying to stick to a Flu Plan, when this isn't the flu.
I expect this to change from being epidemic to being endemic. The number of inpatients in my Trust has stuck at 150 odd for about 10 days, or 6 wards full. I suspect that will slowly reduce, but that we will smoulder on over most of the summer with patient 3-4 wards full, and 3 figure daily mortality nationally. I see this as one peak with a long fat tail.
"I expect this to change from being epidemic to being endemic." I said that from day one. We`ve got to learn to live with this thing.
I'm pretty sure you will find MPs from all parties taking part in this and, for that matter, all sorts of interfaith events throughout the year.
“Unlike most years”
“Friends in the community “
How many pious humblebrags can one tweet take ?
Why not wish his constituents daft enough to believe in this nonsense a happy Hannukkah or whatever and move on ?
Continuity Corbyn lives.
Because Hanukkah is the one near Christmas, and we have just had Pesach aka Passover aka the one near Easter.
Clicking #HomeIftar in the embedded tweet brings up more, and three of the first four are from Brandon Lewis, Zac Goldsmith and Alan Mak from the blue team.
Someone has to pay so the Irish, Scots and Welsh can sit at home.
Still very quiet in the Spa. Apropos of nothing, I queued for half an hour to get into the butchers on Saturday, then found out I had actually been in the queue for the coffee shop next door.
No. It's good manners to wash your hands, not cough or sneeze over others, stay at home if you're unwell and treat others with respect.
Covering your face with a mask is a bit rude and lazy, scares children, and prevents basic daily quality social interactions.
*****
Tyson is completely right. Wear a mask and protect your fellow citizens you stupid selfish c*nt
No. I will not wear a mask. Never...
Religious objection ?
I think by and large that masks are a pointless placebo. They only work in specific and very given close proximity situations.
Wearing them in general otherwise is just a sign of a nervous and personally insecure person who fears losing control - and just wants to be seen to be doing "something" - and make themselves feel better, and also feel superior to others.
It is therefore that which is the truly selfish act: it socially isolates you, as well as others, takes the equipment away from others who might really need it and prevents society returning to anything like normal. We all have no social interaction indoors. The last thing we want when we're outside is also having no-one to see and talk to.
I'd prefer being behind a screen or wearing a transparent visor (if necessary) to covering your face. Obscuring your face is horrible.
It's funny. There used to be a regular poster on here who was a successful international author who used to make similar arguments about face coverings but he seems to have disappeared now.
Beyond parody.
Do you have an argument, or just ad hominem?
You already know the argument very well. The virus is spread by water droplets. Face coverings will stop a lot of larger droplets.
Right, so you don't have an argument. You just want to row in behind whoever you think is better able to make it on this site than you are.
Social distancing (or isolation if infected) is far more effective in managing infection risk that than mask wearing.
I'm far more worried about people with crap sweaty masks constantly touching their face, adjusting them and then touching surfaces thereafter.
Is there a place for masks? Sure: in very specific close proximity situations representing high risk.
But not in general - no - where they take away far more than they add, and even subtract something.
I am fairly sceptical about public use of masks.
There is a genuine issue of supply, and poor technique is very frequent.
While they may have some benefit in preventing transmission, they have limited effect on protecting the individual.
They are banned in non patient facing areas of our hospital (where social distancing is also problematic!).
They do have 2 useful social effects though: to keep people mindful of other aspects of hygiene; and also do seem to give people the confidence to venture out into a hazardous environment. Both of these effects will be useful for normal service to resume in the economy.
If they allowed fans to attend football, but only if they were wearing masks, I wouldn't go.
I would.
Indeed it wouldn't surprise me to see King Power branded facemasks with my new season ticket! Our Thai owners are great, but must be squeezed financially. Their business is Duty Free shops.
I don't expect to be faced with that choice anytime soon. London clubs won't be having fans at games for a long time.
I am a bit doubtful over a second wave. All along we have been bedevilled by trying to stick to a Flu Plan, when this isn't the flu.
I expect this to change from being epidemic to being endemic. The number of inpatients in my Trust has stuck at 150 odd for about 10 days, or 6 wards full. I suspect that will slowly reduce, but that we will smoulder on over most of the summer with patient 3-4 wards full, and 3 figure daily mortality nationally. I see this as one peak with a long fat tail.
"I expect this to change from being epidemic to being endemic." I said that from day one. We`ve got to learn to live with this thing.
Trouble with living with it is that social distancing renders many social, cultural and commercial activities difficult if not impossible. We still need more research on how the coronavirus actually spreads rather than educated guesswork about how it might theoretically spread. In other words, what are the necessary precautions and which can we junk?
Someone has to pay so the Irish, Scots and Welsh can sit at home.
Still very quiet in the Spa. Apropos of nothing, I queued for half an hour to get into the butchers on Saturday, then found out I had actually been in the queue for the coffee shop next door.
Deathly quiet my side of Warwickshire, nothing open bar the supermarkets. Though my local garage sells petrol at 95.7p,unfortunately there's nowhere to travel to.
Mrs B desperate for the garden centres to open as it will give he something to do.
Well they gave up on trying to get widespread testing as well.
August, 2020: England has a quarantine border to stop the Welsh coming in. Scotland has a quarantine border to stop the English coming in.
I don't know what it is about the Welsh but the first thing they do when they go on holiday in South West England in the summer is hoist a giant St.David's flag wherever they're staying.
The caravan and camping parks end up absolutely full of them, and then they end up getting wasted.
I daresay you don't get that many folk from the West of Scotland getting as far as the south west, but if you did..
Edit: NSFW and probably not safe for your mental health if WFH.
Jesus Christ, I tell no word of a lie, this is my hometown. I know exactly where this was filmed. My other half knows the people!
Spill the beans then , where is it.
That`s brilliant. A welcome bit of hedonism.
Can someone summarise for those of us not willing to visually experience it?
Old woman wantonly and unnecessarily gets her massive floppy jugs out to much hilarity - a kind of hedonistic, symbolic VE Day tribute to those that perished.
I am a bit doubtful over a second wave. All along we have been bedevilled by trying to stick to a Flu Plan, when this isn't the flu.
I expect this to change from being epidemic to being endemic. The number of inpatients in my Trust has stuck at 150 odd for about 10 days, or 6 wards full. I suspect that will slowly reduce, but that we will smoulder on over most of the summer with patient 3-4 wards full, and 3 figure daily mortality nationally. I see this as one peak with a long fat tail.
"I expect this to change from being epidemic to being endemic." I said that from day one. We`ve got to learn to live with this thing.
Trouble with living with it is that social distancing renders many social, cultural and commercial activities difficult if not impossible. We still need more research on how the coronavirus actually spreads rather than educated guesswork about how it might theoretically spread. In other words, what are the necessary precautions and which can we junk?
Someone has to pay so the Irish, Scots and Welsh can sit at home.
Still very quiet in the Spa. Apropos of nothing, I queued for half an hour to get into the butchers on Saturday, then found out I had actually been in the queue for the coffee shop next door.
Losing your sense of smell is a symptom of Covid-19.
I am a bit doubtful over a second wave. All along we have been bedevilled by trying to stick to a Flu Plan, when this isn't the flu.
I expect this to change from being epidemic to being endemic. The number of inpatients in my Trust has stuck at 150 odd for about 10 days, or 6 wards full. I suspect that will slowly reduce, but that we will smoulder on over most of the summer with patient 3-4 wards full, and 3 figure daily mortality nationally. I see this as one peak with a long fat tail.
I misunderstood what you meant at first by "I am a bit doubtful over a second wave". You're not meaning that this will die out in the next months, but that the "wave" aspect of the "second wave" won't be there.
AFAIU a "second wave" will be a result of one of two things. One is that the contagiousness of this Corona virus rises and falls with the seasons/temperatures. I find this mostly based on optimism rather than evidence. So far the pattern of outbreaks seems to be related to socio-political rather than temperature. The second reason for a wave is relaxing too quickly after a strong lockdown. It seems so far that most European governments are keen to avoid going down this route.
Someone has to pay so the Irish, Scots and Welsh can sit at home.
Still very quiet in the Spa. Apropos of nothing, I queued for half an hour to get into the butchers on Saturday, then found out I had actually been in the queue for the coffee shop next door.
Deathly quiet my side of Warwickshire, nothing open bar the supermarkets. Though my local garage sells petrol at 95.7p,unfortunately there's nowhere to travel to.
Mrs B desperate for the garden centres to open as it will give he something to do.
I am still running on the tank I filled up at the start of March!
Well they gave up on trying to get widespread testing as well.
August, 2020: England has a quarantine border to stop the Welsh coming in. Scotland has a quarantine border to stop the English coming in.
I don't know what it is about the Welsh but the first thing they do when they go on holiday in South West England in the summer is hoist a giant St.David's flag wherever they're staying.
The caravan and camping parks end up absolutely full of them, and then they end up getting wasted.
I daresay you don't get that many folk from the West of Scotland getting as far as the south west, but if you did..
Edit: NSFW and probably not safe for your mental health if WFH.
Jesus Christ, I tell no word of a lie, this is my hometown. I know exactly where this was filmed. My other half knows the people!
Spill the beans then , where is it.
That`s brilliant. A welcome bit of hedonism.
Can someone summarise for those of us not willing to visually experience it?
Some unionists having a street party and one of their grannies with breasts to her knees had them out and dancing to 17th century religious songs ( the breasts that is ) as they all cheered and sang.
Well they gave up on trying to get widespread testing as well.
August, 2020: England has a quarantine border to stop the Welsh coming in. Scotland has a quarantine border to stop the English coming in.
I don't know what it is about the Welsh but the first thing they do when they go on holiday in South West England in the summer is hoist a giant St.David's flag wherever they're staying.
The caravan and camping parks end up absolutely full of them, and then they end up getting wasted.
I daresay you don't get that many folk from the West of Scotland getting as far as the south west, but if you did..
Well they gave up on trying to get widespread testing as well.
August, 2020: England has a quarantine border to stop the Welsh coming in. Scotland has a quarantine border to stop the English coming in.
I don't know what it is about the Welsh but the first thing they do when they go on holiday in South West England in the summer is hoist a giant St.David's flag wherever they're staying.
The caravan and camping parks end up absolutely full of them, and then they end up getting wasted.
I daresay you don't get that many folk from the West of Scotland getting as far as the south west, but if you did..
Edit: NSFW and probably not safe for your mental health if WFH.
Jesus Christ, I tell no word of a lie, this is my hometown. I know exactly where this was filmed. My other half knows the people!
Spill the beans then , where is it.
That`s brilliant. A welcome bit of hedonism.
Can someone summarise for those of us not willing to visually experience it?
Old woman wantonly and unnecessarily gets her massive floppy jugs out to much hilarity - a kind of hedonistic, symbolic VE Day tribute to those that perished.
Well they gave up on trying to get widespread testing as well.
August, 2020: England has a quarantine border to stop the Welsh coming in. Scotland has a quarantine border to stop the English coming in.
I don't know what it is about the Welsh but the first thing they do when they go on holiday in South West England in the summer is hoist a giant St.David's flag wherever they're staying.
The caravan and camping parks end up absolutely full of them, and then they end up getting wasted.
I daresay you don't get that many folk from the West of Scotland getting as far as the south west, but if you did..
Comments
Ricciardo's strongly shown he doesn't want to be a de facto number two. Sainz has never had a top tier seat.
Mr. W, when cars are much safer than public transport it would be 'brave' to increase the cost of running them.
Is not the Scottish Subsidy the best part of 10bn a year now?
*innocent face*
This does however start from the premise that they are pragmatic and/or sane.
https://twitter.com/MrJordanSDean/status/1260167608931946496
There will be lots of others that agree with me. They won't be saying so on here because they fear abuse from the likes of you and others (like "Eadric") but masks are both wildly unpopular and disliked.
My wife and I have struggled with our mental health during this lockdown. One of our few pleasures has been to get out and about and see another face. We've stopped to talk to old ladies, single mums, middle-aged gentlemen and shopkeepers (always from 2-3m away) and seen smiles, laughs and smirks (both from a distance and up close) that have truly brightened our day. We've felt people being both open and approachable, where we've felt those with masks cowering and fearful - neither wanting to speak to or interact with anyone.
Mass maskwearing is a dark place. I think it's unnecessary, ineffective and socially isolating and makes society a worse rather than a better place.
I know my points are chiming home because those who oppose them are responding with personal abuse, which is always a sign you're onto something.
But I think that reduction in distance travelled, increased use of e-cars which are cheaper to run (eg my solar panels alone generate the 'lecky that would cover 20k miles a year), and the intended transition to walking / using bikes would compensate many times over.
Raising living costs for people by hiking petrol duty would be foolhardy, both politically and economically.
Here's the key paper Nic Lewis uses in his argument. It's not been peer reviewed yet mind
Think of it as the survivors locked in the mall, with the zombies outside.
All you need is one* mixing event - such as my trip to Tescos on a busier Monday afternoon, rather than a Monday morning - and you have that guy with a scratch and a fever insisting that they're fine.
*I mean, really you need more than one and I'm just going back to my house, so it won't be that. However, you get the point**. So mass gatherings, sporting events, celebrations, congas etc will be what I'd look out for.
** no, wait, team FACTOR OF TWO won't. -_-
Sorry, didn't mean to bring your past flooding back in quite this way!
https://twitter.com/chrisg0000/status/1260251879705108480?s=20
There is a genuine issue of supply, and poor technique is very frequent.
While they may have some benefit in preventing transmission, they have limited effect on protecting the individual.
They are banned in non patient facing areas of our hospital (where social distancing is also problematic!).
They do have 2 useful social effects though: to keep people mindful of other aspects of hygiene; and also do seem to give people the confidence to venture out into a hazardous environment. Both of these effects will be useful for normal service to resume in the economy.
https://twitter.com/keir_starmer/status/1260289651220320258?s=21
Higher mileages are mainly in corporate or company vehicles, which would be distributed across the cost of everything.
Even the "average" (their word not mine) commuter journey in the UK is only around 10 miles, says the RAC Foundation.
https://www.racfoundation.org/motoring-faqs/mobility#a26
10 miles is well under an hour on a pushbike, even if only moderately fit - less on an e-bike. Needs a change of perspective and a resolute move to adjust infrastructure if it is to stick, though.
For example, photo taken yesterday. Putting a modern set of 5 in would cost about £500.
https://twitter.com/mattwardman/status/1260460077263224834
I expect this to change from being epidemic to being endemic. The number of inpatients in my Trust has stuck at 150 odd for about 10 days, or 6 wards full. I suspect that will slowly reduce, but that we will smoulder on over most of the summer with patient 3-4 wards full, and 3 figure daily mortality nationally. I see this as one peak with a long fat tail.
Therefore, if they became entrenched in schools it would be impossible to do my job.
Speaking of which, have a good morning.
It will end up in an acrimonious break for certain.
They won't put up taxes while we're still dealing with the immediate Coronacrisis.
They won't put up taxes immediately the medical crisis has passed, as they'll be focused on creating as complete an economic rebound as possible.
They won't put up taxes in the period immediately before the next general election, because that would be politically courageous.
Even on the most optimistic timescale for dealing with the virus and the economic recovery where is the window of opportunity to increase taxes before the spring 2024 general election?
Not that I think that there's any chance of the EU slamming on the brakes to ever closer union, let alone reversing course. I think it will instead suffer further fragmentation as it tries to pursue that course with what's left becoming increasingly dysfunctional. There are many on the left who convinced themselves that it was better to stay in the EU and reform it, indulging in the fantasy that reform was possible rather than face up to a difficult choice.
“Friends in the community “
How many pious humblebrags can one tweet take ?
Why not wish his constituents daft enough to believe in this nonsense a happy Hannukkah or whatever and move on ?
Continuity Corbyn lives.
https://twitter.com/charleshymas/status/1260454560054808580
Mind you I have not seen whether people in normal offices are wearing masks the whole day.
Dr. Foxy, reckon face coverings are useful or not when going out shopping (at neither a huge supermarket nor a pokey corner shop, but somewhere in between)?
When I've been shopping the main measure I've taken is to properly wash my hands both before and after, as well as maintaining distance wherever possible.
Indeed it wouldn't surprise me to see King Power branded facemasks with my new season ticket! Our Thai owners are great, but must be squeezed financially. Their business is Duty Free shops.
https://twitter.com/326Pols/status/1260294587941359616?s=20
(Or not)
Someone has to pay so the Irish, Scots and Welsh can sit at home.
Clicking #HomeIftar in the embedded tweet brings up more, and three of the first four are from Brandon Lewis, Zac Goldsmith and Alan Mak from the blue team.
https://twitter.com/DuncanWeldon/status/1260464542871625728?s=20
Mrs B desperate for the garden centres to open as it will give he something to do.
AFAIU a "second wave" will be a result of one of two things. One is that the contagiousness of this Corona virus rises and falls with the seasons/temperatures. I find this mostly based on optimism rather than evidence. So far the pattern of outbreaks seems to be related to socio-political rather than temperature. The second reason for a wave is relaxing too quickly after a strong lockdown. It seems so far that most European governments are keen to avoid going down this route.
p.s. That's an incorrect use of the word forensic.