It’s worrying that the government appears to have achieved a weaker grip on the situation than its peers and doubly worrying that it is slightly too willing to spin and fudge to defend its reputation rather than deal with the brutal realities.
It has been obvious to one and all taxes will have to rise (apart from HYUFD)
Taxes are not rising, it is merely a blueprint from Treasury bureaucrats, it has not come from Sunak and it has zero chance of getting through a Commons with a Tory majority of 80 and Tory MPs elected on a manifesto commitment to not raise tax
Your response is exactly as I foretold and you are wrong, just plain wrong
No, I am right as I know what makes the Tory party tick and it is tax cuts not tax rises, I could not care less what Treasury apparatchiks put in their papers.
The most prominent conservative leader to break a promise not to raise taxes, George Bush Snr, lost his re election battle in 1992 as conservatives stayed home or voted for Perot.
The government won’t go through with Real Brexit on 31 Dec, I don’t think. They’ll find a way (probably with the help of Macron) in fudging through some lengthy extension to the transition.
The French quarantine exception might help lay the groundwork.
They will. The whole cabinet was appointed for their kamikaze like devotion go No Deal Brexit.
The absence of work on preparing an Irish Sea border shows that they cannot be trusted to keep their word on treaties. Who would be fool enough to sign another?
We will Brexit on December 31 or thereabouts because any delay means we could be on the hook for the inevitable huge corona bail outs. Over which we will have no say.
Moreover it looks like the eurozone is headed for an epochal bust up thanks to the German courts. We will flee for the exit when there is still time
We have already delivered Brexit, not extending past December just means we go to WTO terms
Small wonder Boris is looking so glum. Ladbrokes have him at surprisingly short odds of 4/1 to be replaced as Prime Minister this year. He's on offer at 8/1 to go next year and at the same odds for 2022. One might be tempted to laugh at such odds, the trouble is that Laddies' Shadsy has invariably shown himself to be very shrewd when setting such odds. One thing's for sure, Boris really needs to up his game and soon. His performance throughout this year, even making due allowance for his serious illness, has been lamentable and continues to be so.
Boris is smart. He now knows that he will be the coronavirus prime minister, not the heroic Brexit-delivering prime minister he wanted. He will be associated with plague, death, disease and national failure, followed by huge tax hikes, massive austerity, and severe restrictions on civil liberties
It is the opposite of everything he believes and desires. Everything he stands for. He will be monumentally bored.
He has a cast iron excuse to stand down in a few months, because of ill health. And he can spend more time boffing his moderately pretty young wife and dandling his new baby.
I predict he will go, soon after Brexit in the New Year
Do you think his young mistress will still want him if he steps down?
He doesn't look the sort to change a nappy or do a 2 AM feed.
Today, after spending an hour and a half trying to chNge my apple password, half an hour on hold to a betting company to find I've bought some shares in Swiss francs rather than £££ so am worse off than I thought, then have a payment declined 4 times because I'd put the wrong postcode on a card, I changed a nappy (not mine) as a form of therapy to destress...
FPT - I think the smoking thing partly comes from a big data scientist study of medical records. I am just a layperson but I've seen a number of epidemiologists referring to 'collider bias'. I think it's that they've adjusted for every factor under the sun that it blocks the pathway for it (and hypertension) to death. So it is still very much a risk factor but that risk factor is also associated with other risk factors (I think).
It has been obvious to one and all taxes will have to rise (apart from HYUFD)
Taxes are not rising, it is merely a blueprint from Treasury bureaucrats, it has not come from Sunak and it has zero chance of getting through a Commons with a Tory majority of 80 and Tory MPs elected on a manifesto commitment to not raise tax
Your response is exactly as I foretold and you are wrong, just plain wrong
No, I am right as I No what makes the Tory party tick and it is tax cuts not tax rises, I could not care less what Treasury apparatchiks put in their papers.
The most prominent conservative leader to break a promise not to raise taxes, George Bush Snr, lost his re election battle in 1992 as conservatives stayed home or voted for Perot.
It would be political suicide
You are such an arrogant poster at times.
You may know how IDS and the hard right think but this is the party of Boris and Rishi who are miles apart from your right wing views
It has been obvious to one and all taxes will have to rise (apart from HYUFD)
Taxes are not rising, it is merely a blueprint from Treasury bureaucrats, it has not come from Sunak and it has zero chance of getting through a Commons with a Tory majority of 80 and Tory MPs elected on a manifesto commitment to not raise tax
Your response is exactly as I foretold and you are wrong, just plain wrong
No, I am right as I No what makes the Tory party tick and it is tax cuts not tax rises, I could not care less what Treasury apparatchiks put in their papers.
The most prominent conservative leader to break a promise not to raise taxes, George Bush Snr, lost his re election battle in 1992 as conservatives stayed home or voted for Perot.
It would be political suicide
You are such an arrogant poster at times.
You may know how IDS and the hard right think but this is the party of Boris and Rishi who are miles apart from your right wing views
For Tory members, most Tory MPs and most Tory voters it is actually still the party of low tax whatever your sogging wet views may think.
Just borrow the money. And actually, do the same with income tax and VAT. Borrow it and, er, use a printer or something.
Quite right. Those advocating 5p tax rises know the cube root of fuck all about economics.
Instead of charging income tax or VAT, borrow it. The interest is super low, and you can just borrow more to pay the interest, and borrow a little more to pay the interest on that. Eventually you get a very small number and Bob's your uncle.
It has been obvious to one and all taxes will have to rise (apart from HYUFD)
Taxes are not rising, it is merely a blueprint from Treasury bureaucrats, it has not come from Sunak and it has zero chance of getting through a Commons with a Tory majority of 80 and Tory MPs elected on a manifesto commitment to not raise tax
Your response is exactly as I foretold and you are wrong, just plain wrong
No, I am right as I No what makes the Tory party tick and it is tax cuts not tax rises, I could not care less what Treasury apparatchiks put in their papers.
The most prominent conservative leader to break a promise not to raise taxes, George Bush Snr, lost his re election battle in 1992 as conservatives stayed home or voted for Perot.
It would be political suicide
You are such an arrogant poster at times.
You may know how IDS and the hard right think but this is the party of Boris and Rishi who are miles apart from your right wing views
For Tory members, most Tory MPs and most Tory voters it is actually still the party of low tax whatever your sogging wet views may think.
You insult your core base at your peril
You really need to wake up and see the reality
We are not going to agree as I do not accept your narrow right wing views reflect the future, and your idiotic 'I am always right' mantra just makes you look out of touch
And I am a fully paid up member and will fight your views from within the party
I can't believe anyone who really wanted to see their parents hasn't done so since lockdown. Just stand 20 feet away and have a chat, no one is going to arrest you.
My parents live in NW Wales. I'd not fancy my chances of driving there and back from England without being done by a self important Welsh Plod (they spend most of their time booking motorists anyway, as there isn't really any other form of crime to justify their existence).
Last I heard the Welsh Assembly was threatening to build a wall and make the English pay for it or something...
It's regrettable this crisis has become so politicised.
Yes.
What's funny is, normally when someone (the BBC normally) gets criticised from the right and the left, people say 'oh it means they're doing something right', but that's what's happening here, and everyone says that means they can't win!
It has been obvious to one and all taxes will have to rise (apart from HYUFD)
Taxes are not rising, it is merely a blueprint from Treasury bureaucrats, it has not come from Sunak and it has zero chance of getting through a Commons with a Tory majority of 80 and Tory MPs elected on a manifesto commitment to not raise tax
Your response is exactly as I foretold and you are wrong, just plain wrong
No, I am right as I No what makes the Tory party tick and it is tax cuts not tax rises, I could not care less what Treasury apparatchiks put in their papers.
The most prominent conservative leader to break a promise not to raise taxes, George Bush Snr, lost his re election battle in 1992 as conservatives stayed home or voted for Perot.
It would be political suicide
You are such an arrogant poster at times.
You may know how IDS and the hard right think but this is the party of Boris and Rishi who are miles apart from your right wing views
For Tory members, most Tory MPs and most Tory voters it is actually still the party of low tax whatever your sogging wet views may think.
You insult your core base at your peril
You really need to wake up and see the reality
We are not going to agree as I do not accept your narrow right wing views reflect the future, and your idiotic 'I am always right' mantra just makes you look out of touch
And I am a fully paid up member and will fight your views from within the party
The reality is raising taxes when we should be cutting taxes to boost growth is not only economically idiotic but politically so too and the vast majority of Tory MPs and Tory members would oppose it
FPT - I think the smoking thing partly comes from a big data scientist study of medical records. I am just a layperson but I've seen a number of epidemiologists referring to 'collider bias'. I think it's that they've adjusted for every factor under the sun that it blocks the pathway for it (and hypertension) to death. So it is still very much a risk factor but that risk factor is also associated with other risk factors (I think).
We have been here before. Smoking has long been known to protect against Parkinson's but there are formidable downsides!
"Prof Pennington said it was a consequence of contingency planning that had been too focused on responding to a flu pandemic."
I found it quite revealing to watch an interview with Ferguson from mid February, he absolutely was thinking in flu terms at that time. Talking about how flu has 20-30% of people who don't have symptoms.
Just watching the CH4 news report from Lombardy...every single person they interview, wearing a mask. Watch UK news, limited wearing, with people saying oh yeah, suppose i might do, i forgot.
It is still hard to buy masks here. I am surprised HMG did not arrange a supply of masks for the public before requiring them. There must be dozens of British suppliers who could make face coverings for the public: we do not need full surgical protection.
Just watching the CH4 news report from Lombardy...every single person they interview, wearing a mask. Watch UK news, limited wearing, with people saying oh yeah, suppose i might do, i forgot.
It is still hard to buy masks here. I am surprised HMG did not arrange a supply of masks for the public before requiring them. There must be dozens of British suppliers who could make face coverings for the public: we do not need full surgical protection.
I brought this up over a month ago. Germany announced they would start domestic production with target of 50 million masks a week by start of August. Now that isn't problem solved, but it is problem starting to be addressed.
Seeing the footage today in France and Spain they are handing out free masks at train stations. Here, nope.
I just don't get it. Even if they don't work, or only partially work, the cost of supplying a few masks to every member of the public every week is absolutely minimal compared to the all the over costs. And has basically no downsides.
The claim is people will feel overly safe, but you just ram it home, mask + social distance.
Looks like testing and tracing as Singapore, South Korea, Norway and Germany led on is more effective than lockdown at reducing Covid deaths and better for the economy too
I can't believe anyone who really wanted to see their parents hasn't done so since lockdown. Just stand 20 feet away and have a chat, no one is going to arrest you.
“Clearly we had a pandemic plan in place – in fact, for many years – but this has been directed against influenza, and, of course, while there are similarities, there are also big differences between Covid-19 and influenza.
I was made aware of something last week (which isn't public knowledge) that ties in with this.
The government won’t go through with Real Brexit on 31 Dec, I don’t think. They’ll find a way (probably with the help of Macron) in fudging through some lengthy extension to the transition.
The French quarantine exception might help lay the groundwork.
They will. The whole cabinet was appointed for their kamikaze like devotion go No Deal Brexit.
The absence of work on preparing an Irish Sea border shows that they cannot be trusted to keep their word on treaties. Who would be fool enough to sign another?
We will Brexit on December 31 or thereabouts because any delay means we could be on the hook for the inevitable huge corona bail outs. Over which we will have no say.
Moreover it looks like the eurozone is headed for an epochal bust up thanks to the German courts. We will flee for the exit when there is still time
The Coronabills in the EU are being paid for by monetisation of debt.
Loans will be rolled over into perpetuity because it is the path of least resistance. (They will never be written off, as that would upset the Germans, but they will be called in, and interest will never have to paid.)
The argument has always been you have to lockdown if your test / track fails and community spread gets out of control, it isn't an either / or decision. And places like South Korea although didn't "lockdown", they certainly suspended elements of normal life.
Just watching the CH4 news report from Lombardy...every single person they interview, wearing a mask. Watch UK news, limited wearing, with people saying oh yeah, suppose i might do, i forgot.
It is still hard to buy masks here. I am surprised HMG did not arrange a supply of masks for the public before requiring them. There must be dozens of British suppliers who could make face coverings for the public: we do not need full surgical protection.
I brought this up over a month ago. Germany announced they would start domestic production with target of 50 million masks a week by start of August. Now that isn't problem solved, but it is problem starting to be addressed.
Seeing the footage today in France and Spain they are handing out free masks at train stations. Here, nope.
I just don't get it. Even if they don't work, or only partially work, the cost of supplying a few masks to every member of the public every week is absolutely minimal compared to the all the over costs. And has basically no downsides.
The claim is people will feel overly safe, but you just ram it home, mask + social distance.
Yes. If you turn up for a bus or at the shop in Germany without one, you are handed a free one. At least anecdotally in Heidelberg. Whereas we can't even get bus drivers to wear them
Small wonder Boris is looking so glum. Ladbrokes have him at surprisingly short odds of 4/1 to be replaced as Prime Minister this year. He's on offer at 8/1 to go next year and at the same odds for 2022. One might be tempted to laugh at such odds, the trouble is that Laddies' Shadsy has invariably shown himself to be very shrewd when setting such odds. One thing's for sure, Boris really needs to up his game and soon. His performance throughout this year, even making due allowance for his serious illness, has been lamentable and continues to be so.
Boris is smart. He now knows that he will be the coronavirus prime minister, not the heroic Brexit-delivering prime minister he wanted. He will be associated with plague, death, disease and national failure, followed by huge tax hikes, massive austerity, and severe restrictions on civil liberties
It is the opposite of everything he believes and desires. Everything he stands for. He will be monumentally bored.
He has a cast iron excuse to stand down in a few months, because of ill health. And he can spend more time boffing his moderately pretty young wife and dandling his new baby.
I predict he will go, soon after Brexit in the New Year
Do you think his young mistress will still want him if he steps down?
He doesn't look the sort to change a nappy or do a 2 AM feed.
Today, after spending an hour and a half trying to chNge my apple password, half an hour on hold to a betting company to find I've bought some shares in Swiss francs rather than £££ so am worse off than I thought, then have a payment declined 4 times because I'd put the wrong postcode on a card, I changed a nappy (not mine) as a form of therapy to destress...
I empathise: I know what it’s like to forget your password.
If I’d been prime minister in late February, in my then panicky state, I’d have sunk a bottle of Brunello then said Right, close the borders now, get everyone social distancing, and hand washing, order 5bn masks from a UK factory - pay them whatever it takes - and put on TV broadcasts explaining how to use them, and make people use them, and bloody well stop cheltenham.
I would have then gone back to my wine.
But just by doing that, I would have enabled us to avoid this present disaster.
Hey ho. Night night
The unwillingness (still) to close the borders is another that is totally bewildering. What are they worried about? Accusations of being nasty xenophobic racist? I think those that would think so, already have Boris down as one.
If I’d been prime minister in late February, in my then panicky state, I’d have sunk a bottle of Brunello then said Right, close the borders now, get everyone social distancing, and hand washing, order 5bn masks from a UK factory - pay them whatever it takes - and put on TV broadcasts explaining how to use them, and make people use them, and bloody well stop cheltenham.
I would have then gone back to my wine.
But just by doing that, I would have enabled us to avoid this present disaster.
Hey ho. Night night
The unwillingness (still) to close the borders is another that is totally bewildering. What are they worried about?
We are still actively repatriating our countrymen from exotic climes so there might be a conflict there but something ought to be done short of closure: quarantine in airport hotels; testing, even if not 100 per cent accurate.
If you said there is a 10, or maybe 5, or even 1 or as high as 20 we aren't really certain, percent chance that if you don't stand on your head and sing Rule Brittannia before urinating then you may condemn a complete stranger, let alone someone you love, to a gruesome death, choking on their bodily fluids, would people be so reticent about not doing so? It beggars belief frankly.
If I’d been prime minister in late February, in my then panicky state, I’d have sunk a bottle of Brunello then said Right, close the borders now, get everyone social distancing, and hand washing, order 5bn masks from a UK factory - pay them whatever it takes - and put on TV broadcasts explaining how to use them, and make people use them, and bloody well stop cheltenham.
I would have then gone back to my wine.
But just by doing that, I would have enabled us to avoid this present disaster.
Hey ho. Night night
The unwillingness (still) to close the borders is another that is totally bewildering. What are they worried about?
We are still actively repatriating our countrymen from exotic climes so there might be a conflict there but something ought to be done short of closure: quarantine in airport hotels; testing, even if not 100 per cent accurate.
I had a friend come back from the US for this reason. Nobody told him he had to, but sensible chap booked himself into an airport hotel for 2 weeks.
The initial few loads they got back from Wuhan they were dead sensible with. Stick them in uni accommodation near a hospital.
The government was also actually good at doing deals with private hospitals for extra resources, and initially there was talk of taking over hotels for more patients.
It couldn't have been beyond the wit of man to book out loads of hotel rooms or uni accommodation in the London area, bus people to them, etc.
If you said there is a 10, or maybe 5, or even 1 or as high as 20 we aren't really certain, percent chance that if you don't stand on your head and sing Rule Brittannia before urinating then you may condemn a complete stranger, let alone someone you love, to a gruesome death, choking on their bodily fluids, would people be so reticent about not doing so? It beggars belief frankly.
I find the reaction quite odd...
If you said in that park there is a crazed individual with a knife, your chances of quite slim of being stabbed, but thought I would let your know....nobody would be going in there.
If somebody said there has been a chemical attack, if you go outside with a mask you will massively reduce your chances of being poisoned, everybody would have them on.
And we have world leaders, no masks, no isolation in protected bubbles, shaking hands, having 20 people grouped around them. The only person we saw appear to take protection very seriously is Putin and we presume Winnie the Pooh in China did as he went nowhere near any infected area for ages.
If I’d been prime minister in late February, in my then panicky state, I’d have sunk a bottle of Brunello then said Right, close the borders now, get everyone social distancing, and hand washing, order 5bn masks from a UK factory - pay them whatever it takes - and put on TV broadcasts explaining how to use them, and make people use them, and bloody well stop cheltenham.
I would have then gone back to my wine.
But just by doing that, I would have enabled us to avoid this present disaster.
Hey ho. Night night
The unwillingness (still) to close the borders is another that is totally bewildering. What are they worried about? Accusations of being nasty xenophobic racist? I think those that would think so, already have Boris down as one.
I can't see that. Most other countries have done so. And almost no one is going to be an unwelcome visitor. A desire not to inconvenience the uber billionaire donor who may want to flee Russia, Saudi et al at some future point is a more likely explanation.
Just watching the CH4 news report from Lombardy...every single person they interview, wearing a mask. Watch UK news, limited wearing, with people saying oh yeah, suppose i might do, i forgot.
It is still hard to buy masks here. I am surprised HMG did not arrange a supply of masks for the public before requiring them. There must be dozens of British suppliers who could make face coverings for the public: we do not need full surgical protection.
It’s fricking useless. We are governed by morons
Covid19 is a morality tale.
China: Arrests doctors who try to warn them South Korea: Homophobia defeats contact tracing Singapore: Treats migrant workers like shit, they incubate the disease Europe: Too racist to learn from Asia
Hasidic Jews ignored social distancing rules during the coronavirus lockdown as hundreds gathered to celebrate a sacred festival in their religious calendar.
Around 300 revellers were spotted gathering in Stamford Hill, north London, this evening, despite Government advice that only one person from each household can meet as Britain eases its restrictions.
Just watching the CH4 news report from Lombardy...every single person they interview, wearing a mask. Watch UK news, limited wearing, with people saying oh yeah, suppose i might do, i forgot.
It is still hard to buy masks here. I am surprised HMG did not arrange a supply of masks for the public before requiring them. There must be dozens of British suppliers who could make face coverings for the public: we do not need full surgical protection.
I am not surprised. Admittedly, that's based on experience to date. Over the past 3 months I've come to expect HMG to routinely cock things up, so I'd be surprised if they did otherwise.
Following a 2.5-hour choir practice attended by 61 persons, including a symptomatic index patient, 32 confirmed and 20 probable secondary COVID-19 cases occurred (attack rate = 53.3% to 86.7%); three patients were hospitalized, and two died.
Just watching the CH4 news report from Lombardy...every single person they interview, wearing a mask. Watch UK news, limited wearing, with people saying oh yeah, suppose i might do, i forgot.
It is still hard to buy masks here. I am surprised HMG did not arrange a supply of masks for the public before requiring them. There must be dozens of British suppliers who could make face coverings for the public: we do not need full surgical protection.
It’s fricking useless. We are governed by morons
Covid19 is a morality tale.
China: Arrests doctors who try to warn them South Korea: Homophobia defeats contact tracing Singapore: Treats migrant workers like shit, they incubate the disease Europe: Too racist to learn from Asia
USA? The President is utterly unsuited to leadership?
I don't buy that they are doing this just because 5-6 people have it. Not just the scale of the testing, but the demanded speed of completing it. Its like when they built a 1000 person hospital from the ground up in a few days.
I don't buy that they are doing this just because 5-6 people have it. Not just the scale of the testing, but the demanded speed of completing it. Its like when they built a 1000 person hospital from the ground up in a few days.
Why not? They know how this thing spreads, if you've got 5-6 people detected shortly after opening up, who knows how many you'll have in 2 weeks if you do nothing.
I don't buy that they are doing this just because 5-6 people have it. Not just the scale of the testing, but the demanded speed of completing it. Its like when they built a 1000 person hospital from the ground up in a few days.
Why not? They know how this thing spreads, if you've got 5-6 people detected shortly after opening up, who knows how many you'll have in 2 weeks if you do nothing.
The official story is, they have had 100s of asymptomatic cases* over the past month which they have monitored (but they haven't gone nuclear at that). These new 6 cases, all were asymptomatic ones, but that now developed symptons. And they have immediately gone to DEFCON 1 because of that. It doesn't quite add up.
Having 100s of cases vs having 100s of cases of which a handful have symptons makes no difference in potential spread and management.
* Chinese don't count those in their official figures, even if they test positive.
"Thousands of deaths have been “exported” to community settings from hospitals as a result of the NHS shutting down routine services during the coronavirus outbreak, one of Britain’s leading statisticians has said.
Professor Sir David Spiegelhalter said there had been a “staggering” 30,000 more deaths than normal in places such as care homes and private homes during the eight weeks since the coronavirus outbreak in the UK started, with only about 10,000 of those deaths attributed to Covid-19 on death certificates.
Sir David, professor of public understanding of risk at the University of Cambridge, said the latest data from the Office for National Statistics showed a decrease in non-Covid deaths in hospitals at the same time as the large rise in the community.
He said this indicated about 6,000 deaths that were “exported back to the community because of the closure of the hospitals”."
I don't buy that they are doing this just because 5-6 people have it. Not just the scale of the testing, but the demanded speed of completing it. Its like when they built a 1000 person hospital from the ground up in a few days.
Why not? They know how this thing spreads, if you've got 5-6 people detected shortly after opening up, who knows how many you'll have in 2 weeks if you do nothing.
The official story is, they have had 100s of asymptomatic cases* over the past month which they have monitored (but they haven't gone nuclear at that). These new 6 cases, all were asymptomatic ones, but that now developed symptons. And they have immediately gone to DEFCON 1 because of that. It doesn't quite add up.
Having 100s of cases vs having 100s of cases of which a handful have symptons makes no difference in potential spread and management.
* Chinese don't count those in their official figures, even if they test positive.
Maybe they think it's more needed to test everyone now that lockdown has been eased? Seems logical.
And maybe they now have the capacity to do 11 million tests?
Speed: if you want to test everyone it makes a lot more sense to do it quickly, it would be a bit silly to do it slowly, surely?
Also, I'm not sure it makes NO difference whether you have symptomatic or asymptomatic cases, symptomatic (or even pre-symptomatic) cases may be a lot more likely to spread it, for example.
It has been obvious to one and all taxes will have to rise (apart from HYUFD)
Taxes are not rising, it is merely a blueprint from Treasury bureaucrats, it has not come from Sunak and it has zero chance of getting through a Commons with a Tory majority of 80 and Tory MPs elected on a manifesto commitment to not raise tax
Your response is exactly as I foretold and you are wrong, just plain wrong
Most voters accept the world has changed.
I find it a bit frustrating that a one time event is being used as an excuse to raise annual taxes
I’d rather we had a sensible conversation about how much we want to tax and what we want to spend
The argument has always been you have to lockdown if your test / track fails and community spread gets out of control, it isn't an either / or decision. And places like South Korea although didn't "lockdown", they certainly suspended elements of normal life.
Yes. The U.K. was doing really well until a bunch of arrogant fuckwits decided to go to Italy for their skiing holidays
Looks like testing and tracing as Singapore, South Korea, Norway and Germany led on is more effective than lockdown at reducing Covid deaths and better for the economy too
Not for the first time, he has things completely arse about face. Lockdowns are effective particularly in suppressing a mass outbreak which has got out of control. If you have good enough track and trace early enough, you can avoid them Note that China is missing from that list, and that South Korea had a regional lockdown to get their mass outbreak under control.
No. It's good manners to wash your hands, not cough or sneeze over others, stay at home if you're unwell and treat others with respect.
Covering your face with a mask is a bit rude and lazy, scares children, and prevents basic daily quality social interactions.
*****
Tyson is completely right. Wear a mask and protect your fellow citizens you stupid selfish c*nt
No. I will not wear a mask. Never...
Religious objection ?
I think by and large that masks are a pointless placebo. They only work in specific and very given close proximity situations.
Wearing them in general otherwise is just a sign of a nervous and personally insecure person who fears losing control - and just wants to be seen to be doing "something" - and make themselves feel better, and also feel superior to others.
It is therefore that which is the truly selfish act: it socially isolates you, as well as others, takes the equipment away from others who might really need it and prevents society returning to anything like normal. We all have no social interaction indoors. The last thing we want when we're outside is also having no-one to see and talk to.
I'd prefer being behind a screen or wearing a transparent visor (if necessary) to covering your face. Obscuring your face is horrible.
It's funny. There used to be a regular poster on here who was a successful international author who used to make similar arguments about face coverings but he seems to have disappeared now.
No. It's good manners to wash your hands, not cough or sneeze over others, stay at home if you're unwell and treat others with respect.
Covering your face with a mask is a bit rude and lazy, scares children, and prevents basic daily quality social interactions.
*****
Tyson is completely right. Wear a mask and protect your fellow citizens you stupid selfish c*nt
No. I will not wear a mask. Never...
Religious objection ?
I think by and large that masks are a pointless placebo. They only work in specific and very given close proximity situations.
Wearing them in general otherwise is just a sign of a nervous and personally insecure person who fears losing control - and just wants to be seen to be doing "something" - and make themselves feel better, and also feel superior to others.
It is therefore that which is the truly selfish act: it socially isolates you, as well as others, takes the equipment away from others who might really need it and prevents society returning to anything like normal. We all have no social interaction indoors. The last thing we want when we're outside is also having no-one to see and talk to.
I'd prefer being behind a screen or wearing a transparent visor (if necessary) to covering your face. Obscuring your face is horrible.
It's funny. There used to be a regular poster on here who was a successful international author who used to make similar arguments about face coverings but he seems to have disappeared now.
It has been obvious to one and all taxes will have to rise (apart from HYUFD)
Taxes are not rising, it is merely a blueprint from Treasury bureaucrats, it has not come from Sunak and it has zero chance of getting through a Commons with a Tory majority of 80 and Tory MPs elected on a manifesto commitment to not raise tax
Your response is exactly as I foretold and you are wrong, just plain wrong
Most voters accept the world has changed.
I find it a bit frustrating that a one time event is being used as an excuse to raise annual taxes
I’d rather we had a sensible conversation about how much we want to tax and what we want to spend
Even better: I'd prefer a conversation on how to sustainably grow the cake.
Looks like testing and tracing as Singapore, South Korea, Norway and Germany led on is more effective than lockdown at reducing Covid deaths and better for the economy too
Not for the first time, he has things completely arse about face. Lockdowns are effective particularly in suppressing a mass outbreak which has got out of control. If you have good enough track and trace early enough, you can avoid them Note that China is missing from that list, and that South Korea had a regional lockdown to get their mass outbreak under control.
Is he deliberately stupid, or just stupid ?
No, I think he is a lot more calculating than that. I think it is also important to remember just how close he is to several members of the current Cabinet. What Toby fails to do is show us how many would have died if there had not been lockdowns. The simpe fact is that, for whatever reason, a lot of countries were not prepared to handle a global pandemic. Without lockdowns many, many more people would be dead now. That might not worry Toby and his mates, but generally speaking people do not want their friends and relations to die.
Well they gave up on trying to get widespread testing as well.
August, 2020: England has a quarantine border to stop the Welsh coming in. Scotland has a quarantine border to stop the English coming in.
I don't know what it is about the Welsh but the first thing they do when they go on holiday in South West England in the summer is hoist a giant St.David's flag wherever they're staying.
The caravan and camping parks end up absolutely full of them, and then they end up getting wasted.
No. It's good manners to wash your hands, not cough or sneeze over others, stay at home if you're unwell and treat others with respect.
Covering your face with a mask is a bit rude and lazy, scares children, and prevents basic daily quality social interactions.
*****
Tyson is completely right. Wear a mask and protect your fellow citizens you stupid selfish c*nt
No. I will not wear a mask. Never...
Religious objection ?
I think by and large that masks are a pointless placebo. They only work in specific and very given close proximity situations.
Wearing them in general otherwise is just a sign of a nervous and personally insecure person who fears losing control - and just wants to be seen to be doing "something" - and make themselves feel better, and also feel superior to others.
It is therefore that which is the truly selfish act: it socially isolates you, as well as others, takes the equipment away from others who might really need it and prevents society returning to anything like normal. We all have no social interaction indoors. The last thing we want when we're outside is also having no-one to see and talk to.
I'd prefer being behind a screen or wearing a transparent visor (if necessary) to covering your face. Obscuring your face is horrible.
It's funny. There used to be a regular poster on here who was a successful international author who used to make similar arguments about face coverings but he seems to have disappeared now.
No. It's good manners to wash your hands, not cough or sneeze over others, stay at home if you're unwell and treat others with respect.
Covering your face with a mask is a bit rude and lazy, scares children, and prevents basic daily quality social interactions.
*****
Tyson is completely right. Wear a mask and protect your fellow citizens you stupid selfish c*nt
No. I will not wear a mask. Never...
Religious objection ?
I think by and large that masks are a pointless placebo. They only work in specific and very given close proximity situations.
Wearing them in general otherwise is just a sign of a nervous and personally insecure person who fears losing control - and just wants to be seen to be doing "something" - and make themselves feel better, and also feel superior to others.
It is therefore that which is the truly selfish act: it socially isolates you, as well as others, takes the equipment away from others who might really need it and prevents society returning to anything like normal. We all have no social interaction indoors. The last thing we want when we're outside is also having no-one to see and talk to.
I'd prefer being behind a screen or wearing a transparent visor (if necessary) to covering your face. Obscuring your face is horrible.
It's funny. There used to be a regular poster on here who was a successful international author who used to make similar arguments about face coverings but he seems to have disappeared now.
They are worn as a matter of course in east Asia. You do not go out in Hong KOng now without one. It is considered very selfish not to use one.
Looks like testing and tracing as Singapore, South Korea, Norway and Germany led on is more effective than lockdown at reducing Covid deaths and better for the economy too
Not for the first time, he has things completely arse about face. Lockdowns are effective particularly in suppressing a mass outbreak which has got out of control. If you have good enough track and trace early enough, you can avoid them Note that China is missing from that list, and that South Korea had a regional lockdown to get their mass outbreak under control.
Is he deliberately stupid, or just stupid ?
Yes, of course you're completely right. Not only mistaking correlation for causation, but actually confusing cause with effect.
As for stupidity, I think many people who couldn't be called stupid overall, just don't have any aptitude for the kind of logical, analytical thinking required to understand this kind of issue. Just as many otherwise intelligent people just can't do mathematics.
No. It's good manners to wash your hands, not cough or sneeze over others, stay at home if you're unwell and treat others with respect.
Covering your face with a mask is a bit rude and lazy, scares children, and prevents basic daily quality social interactions.
*****
Tyson is completely right. Wear a mask and protect your fellow citizens you stupid selfish c*nt
No. I will not wear a mask. Never...
Religious objection ?
I think by and large that masks are a pointless placebo. They only work in specific and very given close proximity situations.
Wearing them in general otherwise is just a sign of a nervous and personally insecure person who fears losing control - and just wants to be seen to be doing "something" - and make themselves feel better, and also feel superior to others.
It is therefore that which is the truly selfish act: it socially isolates you, as well as others, takes the equipment away from others who might really need it and prevents society returning to anything like normal. We all have no social interaction indoors. The last thing we want when we're outside is also having no-one to see and talk to.
I'd prefer being behind a screen or wearing a transparent visor (if necessary) to covering your face. Obscuring your face is horrible.
It's funny. There used to be a regular poster on here who was a successful international author who used to make similar arguments about face coverings but he seems to have disappeared now.
Beyond parody.
Do you have an argument, or just ad hominem?
You already know the argument very well. The virus is spread by water droplets. Face coverings will stop a lot of larger droplets.
Local observance on masks, which are compulsory here when out in public, with a $300 fine for non-compliance.
Shopping mall - Close to 100% observance, security guards won't let you in without one.
Small grocery shop - 75% compliance.
People out for a walk of an evening - 100% are carrying a mask, but about 30% are using them correctly - mostly people are wearing them around their neck, ready to put them on if a police car drives past.
No. It's good manners to wash your hands, not cough or sneeze over others, stay at home if you're unwell and treat others with respect.
Covering your face with a mask is a bit rude and lazy, scares children, and prevents basic daily quality social interactions.
*****
Tyson is completely right. Wear a mask and protect your fellow citizens you stupid selfish c*nt
No. I will not wear a mask. Never...
Religious objection ?
I think by and large that masks are a pointless placebo. They only work in specific and very given close proximity situations.
Wearing them in general otherwise is just a sign of a nervous and personally insecure person who fears losing control - and just wants to be seen to be doing "something" - and make themselves feel better, and also feel superior to others.
It is therefore that which is the truly selfish act: it socially isolates you, as well as others, takes the equipment away from others who might really need it and prevents society returning to anything like normal. We all have no social interaction indoors. The last thing we want when we're outside is also having no-one to see and talk to.
I'd prefer being behind a screen or wearing a transparent visor (if necessary) to covering your face. Obscuring your face is horrible.
It's funny. There used to be a regular poster on here who was a successful international author who used to make similar arguments about face coverings but he seems to have disappeared now.
Beyond parody.
Do you have an argument, or just ad hominem?
You already know the argument very well. The virus is spread by water droplets. Face coverings will stop a lot of larger droplets.
Right, so you don't have an argument. You just want to row in behind whoever you think is better able to make it on this site than you are.
Social distancing (or isolation if infected) is far more effective in managing infection risk that than mask wearing.
I'm far more worried about people with crap sweaty masks constantly touching their face, adjusting them and then touching surfaces thereafter.
Is there a place for masks? Sure: in very specific close proximity situations representing high risk.
But not in general - no - where they take away far more than they add, and even subtract something.
No. It's good manners to wash your hands, not cough or sneeze over others, stay at home if you're unwell and treat others with respect.
Covering your face with a mask is a bit rude and lazy, scares children, and prevents basic daily quality social interactions.
*****
Tyson is completely right. Wear a mask and protect your fellow citizens you stupid selfish c*nt
No. I will not wear a mask. Never...
Religious objection ?
I think by and large that masks are a pointless placebo. They only work in specific and very given close proximity situations.
Wearing them in general otherwise is just a sign of a nervous and personally insecure person who fears losing control - and just wants to be seen to be doing "something" - and make themselves feel better, and also feel superior to others.
It is therefore that which is the truly selfish act: it socially isolates you, as well as others, takes the equipment away from others who might really need it and prevents society returning to anything like normal. We all have no social interaction indoors. The last thing we want when we're outside is also having no-one to see and talk to.
I'd prefer being behind a screen or wearing a transparent visor (if necessary) to covering your face. Obscuring your face is horrible.
It's funny. There used to be a regular poster on here who was a successful international author who used to make similar arguments about face coverings but he seems to have disappeared now.
They are worn as a matter of course in east Asia. You do not go out in Hong KOng now without one. It is considered very selfish not to use one.
Well they gave up on trying to get widespread testing as well.
August, 2020: England has a quarantine border to stop the Welsh coming in. Scotland has a quarantine border to stop the English coming in.
I don't know what it is about the Welsh but the first thing they do when they go on holiday in South West England in the summer is hoist a giant St.David's flag wherever they're staying.
The caravan and camping parks end up absolutely full of them, and then they end up getting wasted.
I daresay you don't get that many folk from the West of Scotland getting as far as the south west, but if you did..
It has been obvious to one and all taxes will have to rise (apart from HYUFD)
Taxes are not rising, it is merely a blueprint from Treasury bureaucrats, it has not come from Sunak and it has zero chance of getting through a Commons with a Tory majority of 80 and Tory MPs elected on a manifesto commitment to not raise tax
Your response is exactly as I foretold and you are wrong, just plain wrong
Most voters accept the world has changed.
I find it a bit frustrating that a one time event is being used as an excuse to raise annual taxes
I’d rather we had a sensible conversation about how much we want to tax and what we want to spend
It would be better to see a serious look at tax revenues and government spending. This crisis has shown up several holes in tax revenues and public sector inefficiencies.
There's also a lot of moving parts, and government is likely to be massively unpopular within a few months as the generous financial support comes to an end.
I think the result will be a couple of years of GDP below 2019 levels, possibly helped a little by net emigration.
The only thing that is going to seriously reduce the government debt pile is a dose of inflation, and actual cuts in public spending - as opposed to the faux-"austerity" we have had for the past decade when spending actually rose year on year. Also expect more local taxes as central government devolve more areas of spending to local authorities.
No. It's good manners to wash your hands, not cough or sneeze over others, stay at home if you're unwell and treat others with respect.
Covering your face with a mask is a bit rude and lazy, scares children, and prevents basic daily quality social interactions.
*****
Tyson is completely right. Wear a mask and protect your fellow citizens you stupid selfish c*nt
No. I will not wear a mask. Never...
Religious objection ?
I think by and large that masks are a pointless placebo. They only work in specific and very given close proximity situations.
Wearing them in general otherwise is just a sign of a nervous and personally insecure person who fears losing control - and just wants to be seen to be doing "something" - and make themselves feel better, and also feel superior to others.
It is therefore that which is the truly selfish act: it socially isolates you, as well as others, takes the equipment away from others who might really need it and prevents society returning to anything like normal. We all have no social interaction indoors. The last thing we want when we're outside is also having no-one to see and talk to.
I'd prefer being behind a screen or wearing a transparent visor (if necessary) to covering your face. Obscuring your face is horrible.
It's funny. There used to be a regular poster on here who was a successful international author who used to make similar arguments about face coverings but he seems to have disappeared now.
We had a Family Zoom the other day and Grandson-in-law (Acting) had a mask that looked rather like a Darth Vader hemet! Yes, we KNEW we didn't need masks during a Zoom, but it was as an example during a discussion about them.
Well they gave up on trying to get widespread testing as well.
August, 2020: England has a quarantine border to stop the Welsh coming in. Scotland has a quarantine border to stop the English coming in.
I don't know what it is about the Welsh but the first thing they do when they go on holiday in South West England in the summer is hoist a giant St.David's flag wherever they're staying.
The caravan and camping parks end up absolutely full of them, and then they end up getting wasted.
I daresay you don't get that many folk from the West of Scotland getting as far as the south west, but if you did..
Edit: NSFW and probably not safe for your mental health if WFH.
I wasn't prepared for that.
Of course you wouldn't share it on here but I'm sure there are nationalist equivalents of a Braveheart getting his willy out on the anniversary of Bannockburn or something.
Local observance on masks, which are compulsory here when out in public, with a $300 fine for non-compliance.
Shopping mall - Close to 100% observance, security guards won't let you in without one.
Small grocery shop - 75% compliance.
People out for a walk of an evening - 100% are carrying a mask, but about 30% are using them correctly - mostly people are wearing them around their neck, ready to put them on if a police car drives past.
VAT to 22% (still within *current* Euro norms), abolition of CGT Relief on Main Residences, catch-up on fuel duty and abolition of Triple Lock should raise 75 bn a year or so.
Of those, it would be nice if the VAT change had a sunset clause after 3 years.
But I would trust them to do that as far as I can throw the moon.
It's funny. There used to be a regular poster on here who was a successful international author who used to make similar arguments about face coverings but he seems to have disappeared now.
Yes, I remember that poster. Oddly, I was looking at his twitter feed only a few days ago. After all the things he said about Cardiff, I was surprised to recognise photos of several locations I know in and around Penarth.
No. It's good manners to wash your hands, not cough or sneeze over others, stay at home if you're unwell and treat others with respect.
Covering your face with a mask is a bit rude and lazy, scares children, and prevents basic daily quality social interactions.
*****
Tyson is completely right. Wear a mask and protect your fellow citizens you stupid selfish c*nt
No. I will not wear a mask. Never...
Religious objection ?
I think by and large that masks are a pointless placebo. They only work in specific and very given close proximity situations.
Wearing them in general otherwise is just a sign of a nervous and personally insecure person who fears losing control - and just wants to be seen to be doing "something" - and make themselves feel better, and also feel superior to others.
It is therefore that which is the truly selfish act: it socially isolates you, as well as others, takes the equipment away from others who might really need it and prevents society returning to anything like normal. We all have no social interaction indoors. The last thing we want when we're outside is also having no-one to see and talk to.
I'd prefer being behind a screen or wearing a transparent visor (if necessary) to covering your face. Obscuring your face is horrible.
It's funny. There used to be a regular poster on here who was a successful international author who used to make similar arguments about face coverings but he seems to have disappeared now.
They are worn as a matter of course in east Asia. You do not go out in Hong KOng now without one. It is considered very selfish not to use one.
You mean right now, or in general?
I've always disliked that aspect of the culture.
Right now. You don't go out without one according to the people in our HK office. The government has sent everyone a supply. But it has always been a thing there. If you have a cold or a cough, you generally wear a face mask as a matter of courtesy to others.
Well they gave up on trying to get widespread testing as well.
August, 2020: England has a quarantine border to stop the Welsh coming in. Scotland has a quarantine border to stop the English coming in.
I don't know what it is about the Welsh but the first thing they do when they go on holiday in South West England in the summer is hoist a giant St.David's flag wherever they're staying.
The caravan and camping parks end up absolutely full of them, and then they end up getting wasted.
I daresay you don't get that many folk from the West of Scotland getting as far as the south west, but if you did..
Edit: NSFW and probably not safe for your mental health if WFH.
I wasn't prepared for that.
Of course you wouldn't share it on here but I'm sure there are nationalist equivalents of a Braveheart getting his willy out on the anniversary of Bannockburn or something.
No. It's good manners to wash your hands, not cough or sneeze over others, stay at home if you're unwell and treat others with respect.
Covering your face with a mask is a bit rude and lazy, scares children, and prevents basic daily quality social interactions.
*****
Tyson is completely right. Wear a mask and protect your fellow citizens you stupid selfish c*nt
No. I will not wear a mask. Never...
Religious objection ?
I think by and large that masks are a pointless placebo. They only work in specific and very given close proximity situations.
Wearing them in general otherwise is just a sign of a nervous and personally insecure person who fears losing control - and just wants to be seen to be doing "something" - and make themselves feel better, and also feel superior to others.
It is therefore that which is the truly selfish act: it socially isolates you, as well as others, takes the equipment away from others who might really need it and prevents society returning to anything like normal. We all have no social interaction indoors. The last thing we want when we're outside is also having no-one to see and talk to.
I'd prefer being behind a screen or wearing a transparent visor (if necessary) to covering your face. Obscuring your face is horrible.
It's funny. There used to be a regular poster on here who was a successful international author who used to make similar arguments about face coverings but he seems to have disappeared now.
Beyond parody.
Do you have an argument, or just ad hominem?
You already know the argument very well. The virus is spread by water droplets. Face coverings will stop a lot of larger droplets.
Right, so you don't have an argument. You just want to row in behind whoever you think is better able to make it on this site than you are.
I advise you not to make it quite so obvious when you're trying to wind people up. It's not so effective then.
Local observance on masks, which are compulsory here when out in public, with a $300 fine for non-compliance.
Shopping mall - Close to 100% observance, security guards won't let you in without one.
Small grocery shop - 75% compliance.
People out for a walk of an evening - 100% are carrying a mask, but about 30% are using them correctly - mostly people are wearing them around their neck, ready to put them on if a police car drives past.
No. It's good manners to wash your hands, not cough or sneeze over others, stay at home if you're unwell and treat others with respect.
Covering your face with a mask is a bit rude and lazy, scares children, and prevents basic daily quality social interactions.
*****
Tyson is completely right. Wear a mask and protect your fellow citizens you stupid selfish c*nt
No. I will not wear a mask. Never...
Religious objection ?
I think by and large that masks are a pointless placebo. They only work in specific and very given close proximity situations.
Wearing them in general otherwise is just a sign of a nervous and personally insecure person who fears losing control - and just wants to be seen to be doing "something" - and make themselves feel better, and also feel superior to others.
It is therefore that which is the truly selfish act: it socially isolates you, as well as others, takes the equipment away from others who might really need it and prevents society returning to anything like normal. We all have no social interaction indoors. The last thing we want when we're outside is also having no-one to see and talk to.
I'd prefer being behind a screen or wearing a transparent visor (if necessary) to covering your face. Obscuring your face is horrible.
It's funny. There used to be a regular poster on here who was a successful international author who used to make similar arguments about face coverings but he seems to have disappeared now.
They are worn as a matter of course in east Asia. You do not go out in Hong KOng now without one. It is considered very selfish not to use one.
You mean right now, or in general?
I've always disliked that aspect of the culture.
Right now. You don't go out without one according to the people in our HK office. The government has sent everyone a supply. But it has always been a thing there. If you have a cold or a cough, you generally wear a face mask as a matter of courtesy to others.
Presumably they're encouraging people to stay at home if they have so much as sniffle?
Well they gave up on trying to get widespread testing as well.
August, 2020: England has a quarantine border to stop the Welsh coming in. Scotland has a quarantine border to stop the English coming in.
I don't know what it is about the Welsh but the first thing they do when they go on holiday in South West England in the summer is hoist a giant St.David's flag wherever they're staying.
The caravan and camping parks end up absolutely full of them, and then they end up getting wasted.
I daresay you don't get that many folk from the West of Scotland getting as far as the south west, but if you did..
Edit: NSFW and probably not safe for your mental health if WFH.
I wasn't prepared for that.
Of course you wouldn't share it on here but I'm sure there are nationalist equivalents of a Braveheart getting his willy out on the anniversary of Bannockburn or something.
You lead an interesting fantasy life.
I assumed that was a reference to Braveheart’s recreation of Stirling Bridge.
VAT to 22% (still within *current* Euro norms), abolition of CGT Relief on Main Residences, catch-up on fuel duty and abolition of Triple Lock should raise 75 bn a year or so.
Of those, it would be nice if the VAT change had a sunset clause after 3 years.
But I would trust them to do that as far as I can throw the moon.
It's all kite flying. The government would be mad to do anything other than turn current emergency covid-19 spending into very long term debt. The bigger issue is going to be funding increased - and entirely essential - spending in areas like health, social care and eduction once the immediate crisis ends.
Well they gave up on trying to get widespread testing as well.
August, 2020: England has a quarantine border to stop the Welsh coming in. Scotland has a quarantine border to stop the English coming in.
I don't know what it is about the Welsh but the first thing they do when they go on holiday in South West England in the summer is hoist a giant St.David's flag wherever they're staying.
The caravan and camping parks end up absolutely full of them, and then they end up getting wasted.
I daresay you don't get that many folk from the West of Scotland getting as far as the south west, but if you did..
Edit: NSFW and probably not safe for your mental health if WFH.
I wasn't prepared for that.
Of course you wouldn't share it on here but I'm sure there are nationalist equivalents of a Braveheart getting his willy out on the anniversary of Bannockburn or something.
You lead an interesting fantasy life.
Nah. We know your views in life are determined by lop-sided sectarian bias that you top-up daily with oodles of confirmation bias, so to expect us to believe this as genuinely representative is rather cute.
VAT to 22% (still within *current* Euro norms), abolition of CGT Relief on Main Residences, catch-up on fuel duty and abolition of Triple Lock should raise 75 bn a year or so.
Of those, it would be nice if the VAT change had a sunset clause after 3 years.
But I would trust them to do that as far as I can throw the moon.
It's all kite flying. The government would be mad to do anything other than turn current emergency covid-19 spending into very long term debt.
Ummm, Joff...I think there might be a flaw in your reasoning there.
Well they gave up on trying to get widespread testing as well.
August, 2020: England has a quarantine border to stop the Welsh coming in. Scotland has a quarantine border to stop the English coming in.
I don't know what it is about the Welsh but the first thing they do when they go on holiday in South West England in the summer is hoist a giant St.David's flag wherever they're staying.
The caravan and camping parks end up absolutely full of them, and then they end up getting wasted.
I daresay you don't get that many folk from the West of Scotland getting as far as the south west, but if you did..
Edit: NSFW and probably not safe for your mental health if WFH.
I wasn't prepared for that.
Of course you wouldn't share it on here but I'm sure there are nationalist equivalents of a Braveheart getting his willy out on the anniversary of Bannockburn or something.
You lead an interesting fantasy life.
Nah. We know your views in life are determined by lop-sided sectarian bias that you top-up daily with oodles of confirmation bias, so to expect us to believe this as genuinely representative is rather cute.
No. It's good manners to wash your hands, not cough or sneeze over others, stay at home if you're unwell and treat others with respect.
Covering your face with a mask is a bit rude and lazy, scares children, and prevents basic daily quality social interactions.
*****
Tyson is completely right. Wear a mask and protect your fellow citizens you stupid selfish c*nt
No. I will not wear a mask. Never...
Religious objection ?
I think by and large that masks are a pointless placebo. They only work in specific and very given close proximity situations.
Wearing them in general otherwise is just a sign of a nervous and personally insecure person who fears losing control - and just wants to be seen to be doing "something" - and make themselves feel better, and also feel superior to others.
It is therefore that which is the truly selfish act: it socially isolates you, as well as others, takes the equipment away from others who might really need it and prevents society returning to anything like normal. We all have no social interaction indoors. The last thing we want when we're outside is also having no-one to see and talk to.
I'd prefer being behind a screen or wearing a transparent visor (if necessary) to covering your face. Obscuring your face is horrible.
It's funny. There used to be a regular poster on here who was a successful international author who used to make similar arguments about face coverings but he seems to have disappeared now.
They are worn as a matter of course in east Asia. You do not go out in Hong KOng now without one. It is considered very selfish not to use one.
You mean right now, or in general?
I've always disliked that aspect of the culture.
Right now. You don't go out without one according to the people in our HK office. The government has sent everyone a supply. But it has always been a thing there. If you have a cold or a cough, you generally wear a face mask as a matter of courtesy to others.
Presumably they're encouraging people to stay at home if they have so much as sniffle?
Not sure, to be honest, but I guess so. Things are back to normal there, now, as much as they can be. Our office is now fully up and running, everyone is back, there is no social distancing between desks. It's still very hard to get into HK, though.
Well they gave up on trying to get widespread testing as well.
August, 2020: England has a quarantine border to stop the Welsh coming in. Scotland has a quarantine border to stop the English coming in.
I don't know what it is about the Welsh but the first thing they do when they go on holiday in South West England in the summer is hoist a giant St.David's flag wherever they're staying.
The caravan and camping parks end up absolutely full of them, and then they end up getting wasted.
I daresay you don't get that many folk from the West of Scotland getting as far as the south west, but if you did..
Edit: NSFW and probably not safe for your mental health if WFH.
I wasn't prepared for that.
Of course you wouldn't share it on here but I'm sure there are nationalist equivalents of a Braveheart getting his willy out on the anniversary of Bannockburn or something.
You lead an interesting fantasy life.
Nah. We know your views in life are determined by lop-sided sectarian bias that you top-up daily with oodles of confirmation bias, so to expect us to believe this as genuinely representative is rather cute.
Blimey. Somebody got out of bed the wrong side this morning.
Do you have a preferred choice of root vegetable to use as a ballistic weapon? Turnips are already taken.
Comments
The most prominent conservative leader to break a promise not to raise taxes, George Bush Snr, lost his re election battle in 1992 as conservatives stayed home or voted for Perot.
It would be political suicide
You may know how IDS and the hard right think but this is the party of Boris and Rishi who are miles apart from your right wing views
You insult your core base at your peril
We are not going to agree as I do not accept your narrow right wing views reflect the future, and your idiotic 'I am always right' mantra just makes you look out of touch
And I am a fully paid up member and will fight your views from within the party
Last I heard the Welsh Assembly was threatening to build a wall and make the English pay for it or something...
What's funny is, normally when someone (the BBC normally) gets criticised from the right and the left, people say 'oh it means they're doing something right', but that's what's happening here, and everyone says that means they can't win!
https://twitter.com/lioneltop/status/1260125365990756352
https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/politics/scottish-politics/2175148/coronavirus-second-wave-of-deadly-virus-described-as-very-unlikely-by-expert/
I found it quite revealing to watch an interview with Ferguson from mid February, he absolutely was thinking in flu terms at that time. Talking about how flu has 20-30% of people who don't have symptoms.
Seeing the footage today in France and Spain they are handing out free masks at train stations. Here, nope.
I just don't get it. Even if they don't work, or only partially work, the cost of supplying a few masks to every member of the public every week is absolutely minimal compared to the all the over costs. And has basically no downsides.
The claim is people will feel overly safe, but you just ram it home, mask + social distance.
https://twitter.com/toadmeister/status/1260320758858944519?s=20
I was made aware of something last week (which isn't public knowledge) that ties in with this.
Loans will be rolled over into perpetuity because it is the path of least resistance. (They will never be written off, as that would upset the Germans, but they will be called in, and interest will never have to paid.)
It beggars belief frankly.
The initial few loads they got back from Wuhan they were dead sensible with. Stick them in uni accommodation near a hospital.
The government was also actually good at doing deals with private hospitals for extra resources, and initially there was talk of taking over hotels for more patients.
It couldn't have been beyond the wit of man to book out loads of hotel rooms or uni accommodation in the London area, bus people to them, etc.
If you said in that park there is a crazed individual with a knife, your chances of quite slim of being stabbed, but thought I would let your know....nobody would be going in there.
If somebody said there has been a chemical attack, if you go outside with a mask you will massively reduce your chances of being poisoned, everybody would have them on.
And we have world leaders, no masks, no isolation in protected bubbles, shaking hands, having 20 people grouped around them. The only person we saw appear to take protection very seriously is Putin and we presume Winnie the Pooh in China did as he went nowhere near any infected area for ages.
A desire not to inconvenience the uber billionaire donor who may want to flee Russia, Saudi et al at some future point is a more likely explanation.
China: Arrests doctors who try to warn them
South Korea: Homophobia defeats contact tracing
Singapore: Treats migrant workers like shit, they incubate the disease
Europe: Too racist to learn from Asia
Hasidic Jews ignored social distancing rules during the coronavirus lockdown as hundreds gathered to celebrate a sacred festival in their religious calendar.
Around 300 revellers were spotted gathering in Stamford Hill, north London, this evening, despite Government advice that only one person from each household can meet as Britain eases its restrictions.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8313205/Hasidic-Jews-ignore-social-distancing-rules-coronavirus-lockdown.html
I do wonder what will happen at the end of Ramadan in 10 days or so.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/wales-goes-its-own-way-and-declares-no-need-for-coronavirus-facemasks-zr0h39cbx
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6919e6.htm
Wuhan To Test All 11 Million Residents After New Coronavirus Cases Emerge
https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/05/12/854431546/wuhan-to-test-all-residents-after-new-coronavirus-cases-emerge/
I don't buy that they are doing this just because 5-6 people have it. Not just the scale of the testing, but the demanded speed of completing it. Its like when they built a 1000 person hospital from the ground up in a few days.
Having 100s of cases vs having 100s of cases of which a handful have symptons makes no difference in potential spread and management.
* Chinese don't count those in their official figures, even if they test positive.
Professor Sir David Spiegelhalter said there had been a “staggering” 30,000 more deaths than normal in places such as care homes and private homes during the eight weeks since the coronavirus outbreak in the UK started, with only about 10,000 of those deaths attributed to Covid-19 on death certificates.
Sir David, professor of public understanding of risk at the University of Cambridge, said the latest data from the Office for National Statistics showed a decrease in non-Covid deaths in hospitals at the same time as the large rise in the community.
He said this indicated about 6,000 deaths that were “exported back to the community because of the closure of the hospitals”."
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-uk-death-toll-care-homes-hospitals-nhs-a9510566.html
And maybe they now have the capacity to do 11 million tests?
Speed: if you want to test everyone it makes a lot more sense to do it quickly, it would be a bit silly to do it slowly, surely?
Also, I'm not sure it makes NO difference whether you have symptomatic or asymptomatic cases, symptomatic (or even pre-symptomatic) cases may be a lot more likely to spread it, for example.
https://www.asahi.com/articles/ASN5F45WNN53UTQP00K.html?ref=tw_asahi
I find it a bit frustrating that a one time event is being used as an excuse to raise annual taxes
I’d rather we had a sensible conversation about how much we want to tax and what we want to spend
This is simply your latest obsession and your Twitter feed is relentless about it. It's almost led me to mute you
You resorting to personal abuse isn't going to change my mind.
Lockdowns are effective particularly in suppressing a mass outbreak which has got out of control. If you have good enough track and trace early enough, you can avoid them
Note that China is missing from that list, and that South Korea had a regional lockdown to get their mass outbreak under control.
Is he deliberately stupid, or just stupid ?
What's more interesting is the split in Brexiteer/Tory ranks between the libertarians and authoritarians which is now a very obvious fissure.
Wearing them in general otherwise is just a sign of a nervous and personally insecure person who fears losing control - and just wants to be seen to be doing "something" - and make themselves feel better, and also feel superior to others.
It is therefore that which is the truly selfish act: it socially isolates you, as well as others, takes the equipment away from others who might really need it and prevents society returning to anything like normal. We all have no social interaction indoors. The last thing we want when we're outside is also having no-one to see and talk to.
I'd prefer being behind a screen or wearing a transparent visor (if necessary) to covering your face. Obscuring your face is horrible.
It's funny. There used to be a regular poster on here who was a successful international author who used to make similar arguments about face coverings but he seems to have disappeared now.
'Why are woke, metropolitan liberal cultural Marxists bringing politics into the Covid crisis?'
https://twitter.com/JANUSZCZAK/status/1260289666009509890?s=20
The caravan and camping parks end up absolutely full of them, and then they end up getting wasted.
As for stupidity, I think many people who couldn't be called stupid overall, just don't have any aptitude for the kind of logical, analytical thinking required to understand this kind of issue. Just as many otherwise intelligent people just can't do mathematics.
Shopping mall - Close to 100% observance, security guards won't let you in without one.
Small grocery shop - 75% compliance.
People out for a walk of an evening - 100% are carrying a mask, but about 30% are using them correctly - mostly people are wearing them around their neck, ready to put them on if a police car drives past.
To wear a mask, or not to wear a mask: that is the question.
Social distancing (or isolation if infected) is far more effective in managing infection risk that than mask wearing.
I'm far more worried about people with crap sweaty masks constantly touching their face, adjusting them and then touching surfaces thereafter.
Is there a place for masks? Sure: in very specific close proximity situations representing high risk.
But not in general - no - where they take away far more than they add, and even subtract something.
I've always disliked that aspect of the culture.
https://twitter.com/wully1960/status/1259863859726295041?s=20
Edit: NSFW and probably not safe for your mental health if WFH.
There's also a lot of moving parts, and government is likely to be massively unpopular within a few months as the generous financial support comes to an end.
I think the result will be a couple of years of GDP below 2019 levels, possibly helped a little by net emigration.
The only thing that is going to seriously reduce the government debt pile is a dose of inflation, and actual cuts in public spending - as opposed to the faux-"austerity" we have had for the past decade when spending actually rose year on year. Also expect more local taxes as central government devolve more areas of spending to local authorities.
Yes, we KNEW we didn't need masks during a Zoom, but it was as an example during a discussion about them.
https://www.destatis.de/EN/Press/2020/05/PE20_162_12621.html;jsessionid=52602CDE62A4C4736F48C3E22916421C.internet8742
Unsurprisingly they are picking up a COVID-19 effect, but like the French, the excess isn't much bigger than the COVID-19 deaths already reported.
Of course you wouldn't share it on here but I'm sure there are nationalist equivalents of a Braveheart getting his willy out on the anniversary of Bannockburn or something.
VAT to 22% (still within *current* Euro norms), abolition of CGT Relief on Main Residences, catch-up on fuel duty and abolition of Triple Lock should raise 75 bn a year or so.
Of those, it would be nice if the VAT change had a sunset clause after 3 years.
But I would trust them to do that as far as I can throw the moon.
I wonder if Eadric ever sees him there?
Government’s handling of Covid-19 is a very British disaster
https://t.co/ExeXkaxZ8T
I reckon Ricciardo, but the coverage is suggesting Sainz Jr is favourite.
Anyone else notice this?
Do you have a preferred choice of root vegetable to use as a ballistic weapon? Turnips are already taken.