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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Starmer overtakes Johnson in latest YouGov leader ratings

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  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,149

    Foxy said:

    eadric said:

    Small wonder Boris is looking so glum. Ladbrokes have him at surprisingly short odds of 4/1 to be replaced as Prime Minister this year. He's on offer at 8/1 to go next year and at the same odds for 2022.
    One might be tempted to laugh at such odds, the trouble is that Laddies' Shadsy has invariably shown himself to be very shrewd when setting such odds.
    One thing's for sure, Boris really needs to up his game and soon. His performance throughout this year, even making due allowance for his serious illness, has been lamentable and continues to be so.

    Boris is smart. He now knows that he will be the coronavirus prime minister, not the heroic Brexit-delivering prime minister he wanted. He will be associated with plague, death, disease and national failure, followed by huge tax hikes, massive austerity, and severe restrictions on civil liberties

    It is the opposite of everything he believes and desires. Everything he stands for. He will be monumentally bored.

    He has a cast iron excuse to stand down in a few months, because of ill health. And he can spend more time boffing his moderately pretty young wife and dandling his new baby.

    I predict he will go, soon after Brexit in the New Year
    Do you think his young mistress will still want him if he steps down?

    He doesn't look the sort to change a nappy or do a 2 AM feed.
    For all you dislike Boris I am surprised that you do not recognise she is not his mistress, but fiancee and they are due to be married shortly

    Boris has lots of faults but maybe more respect for Carrie and his son would not go amiss
    Dr Foxy seems to be one step away from Justin's bastard fixation when it comes to Johnson's personal life as a serially unfaithful husband, its weird.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,930
    IanB2 said:

    R4 Grant Shapps says the crisis "has a long tail ahead of it".

    Peter Cook wrote a well-known sketch contrasting the rigorous exams for judges with the easier ones to become Cabinet Ministers.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    TGOHF666 said:

    Looks like Sir Keith is now being forensically woke.

    https://twitter.com/keir_starmer/status/1260289651220320258?s=21

    In his election leaflets, he always has a quote from the mosque "community leader" in a prominent position. Funnily enough, there is never a mention from the local Catholic priest, despite the substantial Irish population, or any other faith
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,149
    Foxy said:

    The government won’t go through with Real Brexit on 31 Dec, I don’t think. They’ll find a way (probably with the help of Macron) in fudging through some lengthy extension to the transition.

    The French quarantine exception might help lay the groundwork.

    They will. The whole cabinet was appointed for their kamikaze like devotion go No Deal Brexit.

    The absence of work on preparing an Irish Sea border shows that they cannot be trusted to keep their word on treaties. Who would be fool enough to sign another?
    They key is what is easier. No deal is easier. Doesnt make a deal impossible, they managed it last time, but it works in no deals favour.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,357

    Good to see England going back to work

    Someone has to pay so the Irish, Scots and Welsh can sit at home.

    There is a first for everything Alan
  • northern_monkeynorthern_monkey Posts: 1,639
    Stocky said:

    malcolmg said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Well they gave up on trying to get widespread testing as well.
    August, 2020: England has a quarantine border to stop the Welsh coming in. Scotland has a quarantine border to stop the English coming in.
    I don't know what it is about the Welsh but the first thing they do when they go on holiday in South West England in the summer is hoist a giant St.David's flag wherever they're staying.

    The caravan and camping parks end up absolutely full of them, and then they end up getting wasted.
    I daresay you don't get that many folk from the West of Scotland getting as far as the south west, but if you did..

    https://twitter.com/wully1960/status/1259863859726295041?s=20

    Edit: NSFW and probably not safe for your mental health if WFH.
    Jesus Christ, I tell no word of a lie, this is my hometown. I know exactly where this was filmed. My other half knows the people!
    Spill the beans then , where is it.
    All I will say is that it is a small town in Yvette Cooper's constituency.
    Is it Pontefract Road in Normanton?
    Nope.

    The clip’s all over Facebook up here, unsurprisingly.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,259
    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Which would make him a braver and more reasonable man than I'd credited him for. We will see. I expect fireworks over the triple lock.
    Not to mention public sector pay. He'd have to exempt the health sector of course. And plenty of civil servants have been working their socks off (and plenty haven't)
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,149
    isam said:

    I can't believe anyone who really wanted to see their parents hasn't done so since lockdown. Just stand 20 feet away and have a chat, no one is going to arrest you.
    I only see my family 2-3 times a year anyway and even I could figure that out, it does seem strange if people have literally stopped.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    Probably a fifth measure of reviewing the Barnet formula as part of a devolution review.

    Is not the Scottish Subsidy the best part of 10bn a year now?

    *innocent face*

    It would be quite the break with precedent if Unionist parties stopped showing their decades long cowardice over looking at their own back-of-a-fag-packet convention.
    Personally I'd certainly be up for a review looking towards a more federal structure.

    I would like to see the case for a more federal structure, but in the end it is up to the peoples of the various parts of these islands to determine their own futures. Those who want to keep the UK together need to do a far better job of selling that than they are doing at the moment. We do not have a written consitution that can keep the lid on separation, everything depends on consent. That, ultimately, is a good thing.

    If you substituted "looser" for "more federal" and "the EU" for "the UK" and "these islands" would you stick by those principles?

    Not that I think that there's any chance of the EU slamming on the brakes to ever closer union, let alone reversing course. I think it will instead suffer further fragmentation as it tries to pursue that course with what's left becoming increasingly dysfunctional. There are many on the left who convinced themselves that it was better to stay in the EU and reform it, indulging in the fantasy that reform was possible rather than face up to a difficult choice.

    I am so over Brexit! I think it was in the UK's national interest to remain in the EU, but we always retained the right to leave and we did. I wish the case for remaining had been made better. It wasn't, so we are where we are.

    Yes, the war is over and we lost. The circle I can't quite square is that many on the winning side are still fighting the war.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,930
    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Which would make him a braver and more reasonable man than I'd credited him for. We will see. I expect fireworks over the triple lock.
    That looks more like the standard Treasury shopping list of tax options. The danger for the Chancellor is causing the recession he hopes to avoid.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222

    Stocky said:

    malcolmg said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Well they gave up on trying to get widespread testing as well.
    August, 2020: England has a quarantine border to stop the Welsh coming in. Scotland has a quarantine border to stop the English coming in.
    I don't know what it is about the Welsh but the first thing they do when they go on holiday in South West England in the summer is hoist a giant St.David's flag wherever they're staying.

    The caravan and camping parks end up absolutely full of them, and then they end up getting wasted.
    I daresay you don't get that many folk from the West of Scotland getting as far as the south west, but if you did..

    https://twitter.com/wully1960/status/1259863859726295041?s=20

    Edit: NSFW and probably not safe for your mental health if WFH.
    Jesus Christ, I tell no word of a lie, this is my hometown. I know exactly where this was filmed. My other half knows the people!
    Spill the beans then , where is it.
    All I will say is that it is a small town in Yvette Cooper's constituency.
    Is it Pontefract Road in Normanton?
    Nope.

    The clip’s all over Facebook up here, unsurprisingly.
    Is it Bridge Street, Castleford?

    (I can go on all morning til you tell us.)
  • coachcoach Posts: 250
    edited May 2020
    malcolmg said:

    Good to see England going back to work

    Someone has to pay so the Irish, Scots and Welsh can sit at home.

    There is a first for everything Alan
    That one line sums up the Scots Nats I suppose
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720

    You can't trust the French, on the flip side I think I know how I'm getting to and back from my summer holiday.

    If you're travelling outside France do you know how you are going to get back into it?
    My summer holiday this year will be Blackpool, or if I'm feeling really adventurous, Leith.
    Can I commend the sunny Isle of Wight.

    I have a week booked off in June. Would like to catch up with my inlaws there.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,065
    IanB2 said:

    R4 Grant Shapps says the crisis "has a long tail ahead of it".

    Although the image of a crisis having a tail, and it being at the front, seems silly but from a statistics point of view this is very common.
  • northern_monkeynorthern_monkey Posts: 1,639
    Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    malcolmg said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Well they gave up on trying to get widespread testing as well.
    August, 2020: England has a quarantine border to stop the Welsh coming in. Scotland has a quarantine border to stop the English coming in.
    I don't know what it is about the Welsh but the first thing they do when they go on holiday in South West England in the summer is hoist a giant St.David's flag wherever they're staying.

    The caravan and camping parks end up absolutely full of them, and then they end up getting wasted.
    I daresay you don't get that many folk from the West of Scotland getting as far as the south west, but if you did..

    https://twitter.com/wully1960/status/1259863859726295041?s=20

    Edit: NSFW and probably not safe for your mental health if WFH.
    Jesus Christ, I tell no word of a lie, this is my hometown. I know exactly where this was filmed. My other half knows the people!
    Spill the beans then , where is it.
    All I will say is that it is a small town in Yvette Cooper's constituency.
    Is it Pontefract Road in Normanton?
    Nope.

    The clip’s all over Facebook up here, unsurprisingly.
    Is it Bridge Street, Castleford?

    (I can go on all morning til you tell us.)
    No it isn't Cas either. You from round here as well then?
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222

    Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    malcolmg said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Well they gave up on trying to get widespread testing as well.
    August, 2020: England has a quarantine border to stop the Welsh coming in. Scotland has a quarantine border to stop the English coming in.
    I don't know what it is about the Welsh but the first thing they do when they go on holiday in South West England in the summer is hoist a giant St.David's flag wherever they're staying.

    The caravan and camping parks end up absolutely full of them, and then they end up getting wasted.
    I daresay you don't get that many folk from the West of Scotland getting as far as the south west, but if you did..

    https://twitter.com/wully1960/status/1259863859726295041?s=20

    Edit: NSFW and probably not safe for your mental health if WFH.
    Jesus Christ, I tell no word of a lie, this is my hometown. I know exactly where this was filmed. My other half knows the people!
    Spill the beans then , where is it.
    All I will say is that it is a small town in Yvette Cooper's constituency.
    Is it Pontefract Road in Normanton?
    Nope.

    The clip’s all over Facebook up here, unsurprisingly.
    Is it Bridge Street, Castleford?

    (I can go on all morning til you tell us.)
    No it isn't Cas either. You from round here as well then?
    No, I`m just googling street names in Cooper`s constituency.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,862
    Why is Starmer stuck way out on the right wing of Boris?

    Oh, silly me, not enough coffee yet.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,065
    Foxy said:

    You can't trust the French, on the flip side I think I know how I'm getting to and back from my summer holiday.

    If you're travelling outside France do you know how you are going to get back into it?
    My summer holiday this year will be Blackpool, or if I'm feeling really adventurous, Leith.
    Can I commend the sunny Isle of Wight.

    I have a week booked off in June. Would like to catch up with my inlaws there.
    In June you might need to quarrantine for two weeks when travelling back to the mainland :smiley:
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,149
    edited May 2020

    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Which would make him a braver and more reasonable man than I'd credited him for. We will see. I expect fireworks over the triple lock.
    Not to mention public sector pay. He'd have to exempt the health sector of course. And plenty of civil servants have been working their socks off (and plenty haven't)
    The unions for local gov put in for a 10% rise before all this went down as 'austerity was over'. Let's call that unlikely now.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720
    MattW said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    Looks like Sir Keith is now being forensically woke.

    https://twitter.com/keir_starmer/status/1260289651220320258?s=21

    Around here Ramadan started on 23rd April...
    Isn't Iftar every night for the month though?

    I have no problem with enjoying other religions festivals, and often get Christmas and Easter greetings from Muslim or Hindu colleagues. It seems polite to reciprocate.
  • northern_monkeynorthern_monkey Posts: 1,639
    Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    malcolmg said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Well they gave up on trying to get widespread testing as well.
    August, 2020: England has a quarantine border to stop the Welsh coming in. Scotland has a quarantine border to stop the English coming in.
    I don't know what it is about the Welsh but the first thing they do when they go on holiday in South West England in the summer is hoist a giant St.David's flag wherever they're staying.

    The caravan and camping parks end up absolutely full of them, and then they end up getting wasted.
    I daresay you don't get that many folk from the West of Scotland getting as far as the south west, but if you did..

    https://twitter.com/wully1960/status/1259863859726295041?s=20

    Edit: NSFW and probably not safe for your mental health if WFH.
    Jesus Christ, I tell no word of a lie, this is my hometown. I know exactly where this was filmed. My other half knows the people!
    Spill the beans then , where is it.
    All I will say is that it is a small town in Yvette Cooper's constituency.
    Is it Pontefract Road in Normanton?
    Nope.

    The clip’s all over Facebook up here, unsurprisingly.
    Is it Bridge Street, Castleford?

    (I can go on all morning til you tell us.)
    No it isn't Cas either. You from round here as well then?
    No, I`m just googling street names in Cooper`s constituency.
    Ha ha well it might take you some time then!
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    An NHS pay freeze will go down like a bucket of cold sick. Can’t wait for @HYUFD to defend that one.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,149

    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Which would make him a braver and more reasonable man than I'd credited him for. We will see. I expect fireworks over the triple lock.
    That looks more like the standard Treasury shopping list of tax options. The danger for the Chancellor is causing the recession he hopes to avoid.
    The reasonableness would be in the willingness to take what would be unpopular measures for the public good as a result of the emergency. It may well be not all of them or not all at once would be the best idea.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,489
    I wonder if - as a largely services driven economy with a fairly well virtually connected populace - if our GDP figures perhaps might not be quite as bad as expected.

    We don't rely as heavily on manufacturing as other countries do for their income, and we've perhaps been able to keep more going from home than we'd thought.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,489
    Foxy said:

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Nigelb said:

    eadric said:

    Fpt for
    Casino_Royale



    No. It's good manners to wash your hands, not cough or sneeze over others, stay at home if you're unwell and treat others with respect.

    Covering your face with a mask is a bit rude and lazy, scares children, and prevents basic daily quality social interactions.

    *****


    Tyson is completely right. Wear a mask and protect your fellow citizens you stupid selfish c*nt

    No. I will not wear a mask. Never...
    Religious objection ? :wink:
    I think by and large that masks are a pointless placebo. They only work in specific and very given close proximity situations.

    Wearing them in general otherwise is just a sign of a nervous and personally insecure person who fears losing control - and just wants to be seen to be doing "something" - and make themselves feel better, and also feel superior to others.

    It is therefore that which is the truly selfish act: it socially isolates you, as well as others, takes the equipment away from others who might really need it and prevents society returning to anything like normal. We all have no social interaction indoors. The last thing we want when we're outside is also having no-one to see and talk to.

    I'd prefer being behind a screen or wearing a transparent visor (if necessary) to covering your face. Obscuring your face is horrible.

    It's funny. There used to be a regular poster on here who was a successful international author who used to make similar arguments about face coverings but he seems to have disappeared now.
    Beyond parody.
    Do you have an argument, or just ad hominem?
    You already know the argument very well. The virus is spread by water droplets. Face coverings will stop a lot of larger droplets.
    Right, so you don't have an argument. You just want to row in behind whoever you think is better able to make it on this site than you are.

    Social distancing (or isolation if infected) is far more effective in managing infection risk that than mask wearing.

    I'm far more worried about people with crap sweaty masks constantly touching their face, adjusting them and then touching surfaces thereafter.

    Is there a place for masks? Sure: in very specific close proximity situations representing high risk.

    But not in general - no - where they take away far more than they add, and even subtract something.
    I am fairly sceptical about public use of masks.

    There is a genuine issue of supply, and poor technique is very frequent.

    While they may have some benefit in preventing transmission, they have limited effect on protecting the individual.

    They are banned in non patient facing areas of our hospital (where social distancing is also problematic!).

    They do have 2 useful social effects though: to keep people mindful of other aspects of hygiene; and also do seem to give people the confidence to venture out into a hazardous environment. Both of these effects will be useful for normal service to resume in the economy.
    That's a fair post.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,489
    @Foxy

    We'll be doing the isle of wight again later this year too.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675
    edited May 2020

    I wonder if - as a largely services driven economy with a fairly well virtually connected populace - if our GDP figures perhaps might not be quite as bad as expected.

    We don't rely as heavily on manufacturing as other countries do for their income, and we've perhaps been able to keep more going from home than we'd thought.

    7M furloughed suggests that may not be the case.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,149

    Good to see England going back to work

    Someone has to pay so the Irish, Scots and Welsh can sit at home.

    Still very quiet in the Spa. Apropos of nothing, I queued for half an hour to get into the butchers on Saturday, then found out I had actually been in the queue for the coffee shop next door.

    Did you at least enjoy the coffee?
  • coachcoach Posts: 250

    An NHS pay freeze will go down like a bucket of cold sick. Can’t wait for @HYUFD to defend that one.

    Quite, the cult of the NHS must never be opposed.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222
    Sad news this morning: Monty Don`s dog, Nigel, has died. TV star of Gardener`s World.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,766
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Which would make him a braver and more reasonable man than I'd credited him for. We will see. I expect fireworks over the triple lock.
    That looks more like the standard Treasury shopping list of tax options. The danger for the Chancellor is causing the recession he hopes to avoid.
    The reasonableness would be in the willingness to take what would be unpopular measures for the public good as a result of the emergency. It may well be not all of them or not all at once would be the best idea.
    Surely the triple lock is a bit of a red herring, in the sense that quite likely inflation will be above 2.5% as the government engineer an inflationary reduction in debt? Obviously not a given and we could see deflation if things spiral into a depression.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,464

    You can't trust the French, on the flip side I think I know how I'm getting to and back from my summer holiday.

    If you're travelling outside France do you know how you are going to get back into it?
    My summer holiday this year will be Blackpool, or if I'm feeling really adventurous, Leith.
    When I lived in Sunderland people from Leith used to visit for their summer holidays. Honestly.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,930
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Which would make him a braver and more reasonable man than I'd credited him for. We will see. I expect fireworks over the triple lock.
    That looks more like the standard Treasury shopping list of tax options. The danger for the Chancellor is causing the recession he hopes to avoid.
    The reasonableness would be in the willingness to take what would be unpopular measures for the public good as a result of the emergency. It may well be not all of them or not all at once would be the best idea.
    I do not think that looks like what the Chancellor is considering, so much as a standard Treasury list of options he *could* consider, and that is why almost everything bar the kitchen sink tax is on it.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675
    coach said:

    An NHS pay freeze will go down like a bucket of cold sick. Can’t wait for @HYUFD to defend that one.

    Quite, the cult of the NHS must never be opposed.
    Matt Hancock?
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    edited May 2020
    Foxy utter rubbish.

    A good face mask helps prevent the spread, both if you have the virus and if you don't.

    Everyone else east of here knows it and their infection rates are far lower. It's really not rocket science.

    I put the antipathy to face masks on the same level as those who think the moon landings are a conspiracy or that David Icke is right.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,250
    edited May 2020

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Which would make him a braver and more reasonable man than I'd credited him for. We will see. I expect fireworks over the triple lock.
    That looks more like the standard Treasury shopping list of tax options. The danger for the Chancellor is causing the recession he hopes to avoid.
    The reasonableness would be in the willingness to take what would be unpopular measures for the public good as a result of the emergency. It may well be not all of them or not all at once would be the best idea.
    Surely the triple lock is a bit of a red herring, in the sense that quite likely inflation will be above 2.5% as the government engineer an inflationary reduction in debt? Obviously not a given and we could see deflation if things spiral into a depression.
    When I looked up the numbers earlier it would save £4-6 bn a year.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39734078
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,805
    Mr. Stocky, sad to hear that. Occasionally watch Gardener's World. Not that I do much gardening (did recently cut away a small conifer for my mother, though).
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,149
    edited May 2020

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Which would make him a braver and more reasonable man than I'd credited him for. We will see. I expect fireworks over the triple lock.
    That looks more like the standard Treasury shopping list of tax options. The danger for the Chancellor is causing the recession he hopes to avoid.
    The reasonableness would be in the willingness to take what would be unpopular measures for the public good as a result of the emergency. It may well be not all of them or not all at once would be the best idea.
    I do not think that looks like what the Chancellor is considering, so much as a standard Treasury list of options he *could* consider, and that is why almost everything bar the kitchen sink tax is on it.
    Which is why I framed it as he 'would' be brave and that we will see. I would not be surprised if you're right and the intention is to see how much of a stink the story causes to see which, if any, they do.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,434

    I wonder if - as a largely services driven economy with a fairly well virtually connected populace - if our GDP figures perhaps might not be quite as bad as expected.

    We don't rely as heavily on manufacturing as other countries do for their income, and we've perhaps been able to keep more going from home than we'd thought.

    My IT consultancy employer can do all of its work remotely except for a couple of clients who insist on no remote working for security reasons.

    Our income is still down by 20-25% because of projects being put on hold. I think the headline numbers will be worse than expected.

    Bearing in mind how much of UK GDP is consumer spending then it's possible that the headline GDP figures will be worse than the underlying strength of the economy. It will be interesting to see what happens to the trade balance.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,002
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720
    eristdoof said:

    Foxy said:

    You can't trust the French, on the flip side I think I know how I'm getting to and back from my summer holiday.

    If you're travelling outside France do you know how you are going to get back into it?
    My summer holiday this year will be Blackpool, or if I'm feeling really adventurous, Leith.
    Can I commend the sunny Isle of Wight.

    I have a week booked off in June. Would like to catch up with my inlaws there.
    In June you might need to quarrantine for two weeks when travelling back to the mainland :smiley:
    The ferries do ask people to self isolate for a week on arrival on the Island, and are not allowing caravans and mobile homes over. I understand why. Island medical services are a bit ropy at the best of times, and there is a vulnerable population.

    Personally, I would have thought camping or caravan in the UK, or cottage rental would be the safest British summer holidays. Not music festivals obviously.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,766

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Which would make him a braver and more reasonable man than I'd credited him for. We will see. I expect fireworks over the triple lock.
    That looks more like the standard Treasury shopping list of tax options. The danger for the Chancellor is causing the recession he hopes to avoid.
    The reasonableness would be in the willingness to take what would be unpopular measures for the public good as a result of the emergency. It may well be not all of them or not all at once would be the best idea.
    I do not think that looks like what the Chancellor is considering, so much as a standard Treasury list of options he *could* consider, and that is why almost everything bar the kitchen sink tax is on it.
    Tax kitchen sinks I say.
  • BannedinnParisBannedinnParis Posts: 1,884

    You can't trust the French, on the flip side I think I know how I'm getting to and back from my summer holiday.

    If you're travelling outside France do you know how you are going to get back into it?
    My summer holiday this year will be Blackpool, or if I'm feeling really adventurous, Leith.
    When I lived in Sunderland people from Leith used to visit for their summer holidays. Honestly.
    Leith - not that bad, particularly around the docks. A couple of good boozers, and walking out towards Queensferry is grand.

    Sunderland - has a beach right by the city centre, with sand and a sort of pier.

    I walked from Hartlepool to Newcastle last year and Sunderland was grand. There are ropey bits, but the river makes a fine setting and there's stuff to do on that coast heading north.

    Blackpool, however, I went on an away day in January and the highlight was my first class booking on the way home.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,149
    Scott_xP said:
    Does it say it has been accepted?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,250
    Scott_xP said:
    They are starting to behave like the EU in their desire to keep control.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,149

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Which would make him a braver and more reasonable man than I'd credited him for. We will see. I expect fireworks over the triple lock.
    That looks more like the standard Treasury shopping list of tax options. The danger for the Chancellor is causing the recession he hopes to avoid.
    The reasonableness would be in the willingness to take what would be unpopular measures for the public good as a result of the emergency. It may well be not all of them or not all at once would be the best idea.
    I do not think that looks like what the Chancellor is considering, so much as a standard Treasury list of options he *could* consider, and that is why almost everything bar the kitchen sink tax is on it.
    Tax kitchen sinks I say.
    Nah - freezers. That'll punish those who bought additional ones to hoard.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176

    I wonder if - as a largely services driven economy with a fairly well virtually connected populace - if our GDP figures perhaps might not be quite as bad as expected.

    We don't rely as heavily on manufacturing as other countries do for their income, and we've perhaps been able to keep more going from home than we'd thought.

    My IT consultancy employer can do all of its work remotely except for a couple of clients who insist on no remote working for security reasons.

    Our income is still down by 20-25% because of projects being put on hold. I think the headline numbers will be worse than expected.

    Bearing in mind how much of UK GDP is consumer spending then it's possible that the headline GDP figures will be worse than the underlying strength of the economy. It will be interesting to see what happens to the trade balance.
    Not sure what happened a year ago to make the goods deficit increase so much.

    https://twitter.com/ONS/status/1260454044499423235
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,608
    kle4 said:

    isam said:

    I can't believe anyone who really wanted to see their parents hasn't done so since lockdown. Just stand 20 feet away and have a chat, no one is going to arrest you.
    I only see my family 2-3 times a year anyway and even I could figure that out, it does seem strange if people have literally stopped.
    Some honest polling woud be interesting. I suspect from what I hear many people have already for a while been implementing their own sensible measures.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,902
    Blackpool? I thought we'd had enough punishment as a nation
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,729

    kle4 said:

    isam said:

    I can't believe anyone who really wanted to see their parents hasn't done so since lockdown. Just stand 20 feet away and have a chat, no one is going to arrest you.
    I only see my family 2-3 times a year anyway and even I could figure that out, it does seem strange if people have literally stopped.
    Some honest polling woud be interesting. I suspect from what I hear many people have already for a while been implementing their own sensible measures.
    Have you seen/heard the article about moths pollenating on the BBC website/radio today?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,608
    MattW said:

    Scott_xP said:
    They are starting to behave like the EU in their desire to keep control.
    "seeking"

    Many people in the media have clearly never been in a negotiation.

    Their kids must run rings round them, getting everything they seek....
  • coachcoach Posts: 250

    kle4 said:

    isam said:

    I can't believe anyone who really wanted to see their parents hasn't done so since lockdown. Just stand 20 feet away and have a chat, no one is going to arrest you.
    I only see my family 2-3 times a year anyway and even I could figure that out, it does seem strange if people have literally stopped.
    Some honest polling woud be interesting. I suspect from what I hear many people have already for a while been implementing their own sensible measures.
    Let's not pretend the lockdown is being taken seriously by millions, in my small coastal town there's a thriving social life in people's gardens. I've been invited to a card school this afternoon but I'm playing golf.

    People are quietly and sensibly getting on with their lives
  • FeersumEnjineeyaFeersumEnjineeya Posts: 4,430
    eristdoof said:

    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Coronavirus: Second wave of deadly virus described as ‘very unlikely’ by Professor Hugh Pennington"

    https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/politics/scottish-politics/2175148/coronavirus-second-wave-of-deadly-virus-described-as-very-unlikely-by-expert/

    I am a bit doubtful over a second wave. All along we have been bedevilled by trying to stick to a Flu Plan, when this isn't the flu.

    I expect this to change from being epidemic to being endemic. The number of inpatients in my Trust has stuck at 150 odd for about 10 days, or 6 wards full. I suspect that will slowly reduce, but that we will smoulder on over most of the summer with patient 3-4 wards full, and 3 figure daily mortality nationally. I see this as one peak with a long fat tail.
    I misunderstood what you meant at first by "I am a bit doubtful over a second wave". You're not meaning that this will die out in the next months, but that the "wave" aspect of the "second wave" won't be there.

    AFAIU a "second wave" will be a result of one of two things. One is that the contagiousness of this Corona virus rises and falls with the seasons/temperatures. I find this mostly based on optimism rather than evidence. So far the pattern of outbreaks seems to be related to socio-political rather than temperature. The second reason for a wave is relaxing too quickly after a strong lockdown. It seems so far that most European governments are keen to avoid going down this route.
    Presumably the occurrence of waves during winter is simply due to the fact that people in temperate climates tend to spend more time indoors in close proximity with one another during cold weather (thus increasing R).
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381
    Scott_xP said:
    No, the 51st state
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    You can't trust the French, on the flip side I think I know how I'm getting to and back from my summer holiday.

    If you're travelling outside France do you know how you are going to get back into it?
    My summer holiday this year will be Blackpool, or if I'm feeling really adventurous, Leith.
    When I lived in Sunderland people from Leith used to visit for their summer holidays. Honestly.
    When I lived in Forfar some neighbours went all the way south to Whitley Bay - which as any fule no is practically on the equator....
  • NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,375

    kle4 said:

    isam said:

    I can't believe anyone who really wanted to see their parents hasn't done so since lockdown. Just stand 20 feet away and have a chat, no one is going to arrest you.
    I only see my family 2-3 times a year anyway and even I could figure that out, it does seem strange if people have literally stopped.
    Some honest polling woud be interesting. I suspect from what I hear many people have already for a while been implementing their own sensible measures.
    Thats exactly whats happened. 99.99% of people are still washing their hands and social distancing but they are adapting their lives to cope with this new way of being. I suspect lots are actually quite enjoying it and may never return to their old way of life.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    MattW said:

    Scott_xP said:
    They are starting to behave like the EU in their desire to keep control.
    The strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.

    Brexit was Britain choosing to move from column A to column B.
  • coachcoach Posts: 250

    kle4 said:

    isam said:

    I can't believe anyone who really wanted to see their parents hasn't done so since lockdown. Just stand 20 feet away and have a chat, no one is going to arrest you.
    I only see my family 2-3 times a year anyway and even I could figure that out, it does seem strange if people have literally stopped.
    Some honest polling woud be interesting. I suspect from what I hear many people have already for a while been implementing their own sensible measures.
    Thats exactly whats happened. 99.99% of people are still washing their hands and social distancing but they are adapting their lives to cope with this new way of being. I suspect lots are actually quite enjoying it and may never return to their old way of life.
    Interesting, some by choice some because their job has gone.

    All the advice we've been given about planning was a waste of time really, perhaps a few more people will start to appreciate what's around them right now
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    On topic, polling right now is not telling us much useful in the long term. We are at a very specific moment in time.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,357
    coach said:

    malcolmg said:

    Good to see England going back to work

    Someone has to pay so the Irish, Scots and Welsh can sit at home.

    There is a first for everything Alan
    That one line sums up the Scots Nats I suppose
    Expand please , not sure what you are saying
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,357
    coach said:

    kle4 said:

    isam said:

    I can't believe anyone who really wanted to see their parents hasn't done so since lockdown. Just stand 20 feet away and have a chat, no one is going to arrest you.
    I only see my family 2-3 times a year anyway and even I could figure that out, it does seem strange if people have literally stopped.
    Some honest polling woud be interesting. I suspect from what I hear many people have already for a while been implementing their own sensible measures.
    Let's not pretend the lockdown is being taken seriously by millions, in my small coastal town there's a thriving social life in people's gardens. I've been invited to a card school this afternoon but I'm playing golf.

    People are quietly and sensibly getting on with their lives
    The feeble need to be amused
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,139

    An NHS pay freeze will go down like a bucket of cold sick. Can’t wait for @HYUFD to defend that one.

    As I posted yesterday this is a blueprint from Treasury civil servants, it is not government policy nor does it have much chance of getting through the Commons either
  • coachcoach Posts: 250
    malcolmg said:

    coach said:

    malcolmg said:

    Good to see England going back to work

    Someone has to pay so the Irish, Scots and Welsh can sit at home.

    There is a first for everything Alan
    That one line sums up the Scots Nats I suppose
    Expand please , not sure what you are saying
    I'm saying that you are deluded if you believe Scotland isn't propped up by the English
  • SockySocky Posts: 404

    Presumably the occurrence of waves during winter is simply due to the fact that people in temperate climates tend to spend more time indoors in close proximity with one another during cold weather (thus increasing R).

    There may be other factors. When I was at university I always got a bad cold at the start of the autumn term (loads of people coming from far flung places).
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,608

    You can't trust the French, on the flip side I think I know how I'm getting to and back from my summer holiday.

    If you're travelling outside France do you know how you are going to get back into it?
    My summer holiday this year will be Blackpool, or if I'm feeling really adventurous, Leith.
    When I lived in Sunderland people from Leith used to visit for their summer holidays. Honestly.
    When I lived in Forfar some neighbours went all the way south to Whitley Bay - which as any fule no is practically on the equator....
    Ah, that will explain the residents not needing to wear much by way of clothes for 12 months of the year....its tropical climate an that....
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,902
    TUI the latest big firm to wobble. 8,000 jobs to go. People have a choice of earning money and not spending it (me), are earning it and can't spend it (fuck Blackpool stay home), or aren't earning money and it isn't there to spend. In any case, all the stuff that people once spent cash on they aren't doing with a few exceptions and in a consumerist economic model thats a Bad Thing.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    For those planning an end-run around quarantine:

    https://twitter.com/lefoudubaron/status/1260479671696797697?s=20
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675

    kle4 said:

    isam said:

    I can't believe anyone who really wanted to see their parents hasn't done so since lockdown. Just stand 20 feet away and have a chat, no one is going to arrest you.
    I only see my family 2-3 times a year anyway and even I could figure that out, it does seem strange if people have literally stopped.
    Some honest polling woud be interesting. I suspect from what I hear many people have already for a while been implementing their own sensible measures.
    Thats exactly whats happened. 99.99% of people are still washing their hands and social distancing but they are adapting their lives to cope with this new way of being. I suspect lots are actually quite enjoying it and may never return to their old way of life.
    There is a breathtaking naivety and complacency about that post. I don’t know how much the relatives of the 30,000 dead are enjoying themselves or the millions to lose their job and will have to find work in the aftermath have to look forward to.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,902
    Thanks Boris. As someone who was following The Law - which your government passed - I was already going out multiple times a day to exercise when the weather was nice and I needed it.
    Thanks Boris. As someone who was following The Law - which your government passed - I was already going out multiple times a day to exercise when the weather was nice and I needed it. Happily you have now absolutely cleared up the advice, nobody at all is confused hence your approval ratings surging to record highs!

    Great job.
  • NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,375
    Jonathan said:

    kle4 said:

    isam said:

    I can't believe anyone who really wanted to see their parents hasn't done so since lockdown. Just stand 20 feet away and have a chat, no one is going to arrest you.
    I only see my family 2-3 times a year anyway and even I could figure that out, it does seem strange if people have literally stopped.
    Some honest polling woud be interesting. I suspect from what I hear many people have already for a while been implementing their own sensible measures.
    Thats exactly whats happened. 99.99% of people are still washing their hands and social distancing but they are adapting their lives to cope with this new way of being. I suspect lots are actually quite enjoying it and may never return to their old way of life.
    There is a breathtaking naivety and complacency about that post. I don’t know how much the relatives of the 30,000 dead are enjoying themselves or the millions to lose their job and will have to find work in the aftermath have to look forward to.
    I think it was a statement of fact.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    For those planning an end-run around quarantine:

    https://twitter.com/lefoudubaron/status/1260479671696797697?s=20

    In twenty years time that will be alongside the crimes of wearing false beards in Spain and having ice cream cones in your back pocket on a Sunday in Georgia.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,139

    Agree - I doubt its any more than a standard scoping exercise, the response will be deeply political:

    https://twitter.com/DuncanWeldon/status/1260464542871625728?s=20

    https://twitter.com/DuncanWeldon/status/1260464967641370626?s=19
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,225

    On topic, polling right now is not telling us much useful in the long term. We are at a very specific moment in time.

    Is that an unusual situation to find oneself in ? :smile:
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Nigelb said:

    On topic, polling right now is not telling us much useful in the long term. We are at a very specific moment in time.

    Is that an unusual situation to find oneself in ? :smile:
    The specific moment we are at right now is unusually atypical.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,357
    coach said:

    kle4 said:

    isam said:

    I can't believe anyone who really wanted to see their parents hasn't done so since lockdown. Just stand 20 feet away and have a chat, no one is going to arrest you.
    I only see my family 2-3 times a year anyway and even I could figure that out, it does seem strange if people have literally stopped.
    Some honest polling woud be interesting. I suspect from what I hear many people have already for a while been implementing their own sensible measures.
    Let's not pretend the lockdown is being taken seriously by millions, in my small coastal town there's a thriving social life in people's gardens. I've been invited to a card school this afternoon but I'm playing golf.

    People are quietly and sensibly getting on with their lives
    The feeble need to be amused constantly
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Thanks Boris. As someone who was following The Law - which your government passed - I was already going out multiple times a day to exercise when the weather was nice and I needed it.

    Thanks Boris. As someone who was following The Law - which your government passed - I was already going out multiple times a day to exercise when the weather was nice and I needed it. Happily you have now absolutely cleared up the advice, nobody at all is confused hence your approval ratings surging to record highs!

    Great job.
    You do realise that advice and the law are not the same thing don't you? And for good reason too.

    I bet you read the Highway Code and think "that only says should, so that's just advice I'm not doing it" . . . in wet weather the Highway Code says you should leave a bigger gap between vehicles due to the fact that the wet weather means you may need a bigger gap if you need to slow down suddenly. I bet you are so clever you spotted that's not the law so you can freely tailgate someone at 70mph during a storm. What a guy!
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675

    Jonathan said:

    kle4 said:

    isam said:

    I can't believe anyone who really wanted to see their parents hasn't done so since lockdown. Just stand 20 feet away and have a chat, no one is going to arrest you.
    I only see my family 2-3 times a year anyway and even I could figure that out, it does seem strange if people have literally stopped.
    Some honest polling woud be interesting. I suspect from what I hear many people have already for a while been implementing their own sensible measures.
    Thats exactly whats happened. 99.99% of people are still washing their hands and social distancing but they are adapting their lives to cope with this new way of being. I suspect lots are actually quite enjoying it and may never return to their old way of life.
    There is a breathtaking naivety and complacency about that post. I don’t know how much the relatives of the 30,000 dead are enjoying themselves or the millions to lose their job and will have to find work in the aftermath have to look forward to.
    I think it was a statement of fact.
    You think. 🤷‍♂️
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,139
    MrEd said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    Looks like Sir Keith is now being forensically woke.

    https://twitter.com/keir_starmer/status/1260289651220320258?s=21

    In his election leaflets, he always has a quote from the mosque "community leader" in a prominent position. Funnily enough, there is never a mention from the local Catholic priest, despite the substantial Irish population, or any other faith
    https://twitter.com/JustinWelby/status/1247877078269091845?s=20
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,357
    Jonathan said:

    kle4 said:

    isam said:

    I can't believe anyone who really wanted to see their parents hasn't done so since lockdown. Just stand 20 feet away and have a chat, no one is going to arrest you.
    I only see my family 2-3 times a year anyway and even I could figure that out, it does seem strange if people have literally stopped.
    Some honest polling woud be interesting. I suspect from what I hear many people have already for a while been implementing their own sensible measures.
    Thats exactly whats happened. 99.99% of people are still washing their hands and social distancing but they are adapting their lives to cope with this new way of being. I suspect lots are actually quite enjoying it and may never return to their old way of life.
    There is a breathtaking naivety and complacency about that post. I don’t know how much the relatives of the 30,000 dead are enjoying themselves or the millions to lose their job and will have to find work in the aftermath have to look forward to.
    I would have said stupidity rather than naivety
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,608

    kle4 said:

    isam said:

    I can't believe anyone who really wanted to see their parents hasn't done so since lockdown. Just stand 20 feet away and have a chat, no one is going to arrest you.
    I only see my family 2-3 times a year anyway and even I could figure that out, it does seem strange if people have literally stopped.
    Some honest polling woud be interesting. I suspect from what I hear many people have already for a while been implementing their own sensible measures.
    Have you seen/heard the article about moths pollenating on the BBC website/radio today?
    Indeed. It's been known for a long time that moths are very important in the pollination process. I think what is new is that moths are even more mobile than was suspected. Again, there's reason not to be surprised by this. Moths that have been trapped, marked and released don't commonly get recaught the next night suggesting that moths have a good old wander about (as long as there is a suitable number of their favoured plant to seek out - and if not, they won't thrive in that area anyway).

    If only they made honey...
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,357
    coach said:

    malcolmg said:

    coach said:

    malcolmg said:

    Good to see England going back to work

    Someone has to pay so the Irish, Scots and Welsh can sit at home.

    There is a first for everything Alan
    That one line sums up the Scots Nats I suppose
    Expand please , not sure what you are saying
    I'm saying that you are deluded if you believe Scotland isn't propped up by the English
    I thought you were a cretinous halfwitted Fcukwit, thanks for confirmation
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,608
    HYUFD said:

    MrEd said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    Looks like Sir Keith is now being forensically woke.

    https://twitter.com/keir_starmer/status/1260289651220320258?s=21

    In his election leaflets, he always has a quote from the mosque "community leader" in a prominent position. Funnily enough, there is never a mention from the local Catholic priest, despite the substantial Irish population, or any other faith
    https://twitter.com/JustinWelby/status/1247877078269091845?s=20
    Not that close, Archbishop - remember the 2m rule....
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381

    Thanks Boris. As someone who was following The Law - which your government passed - I was already going out multiple times a day to exercise when the weather was nice and I needed it.

    Thanks Boris. As someone who was following The Law - which your government passed - I was already going out multiple times a day to exercise when the weather was nice and I needed it. Happily you have now absolutely cleared up the advice, nobody at all is confused hence your approval ratings surging to record highs!

    Great job.
    Boris was notorious for being late with his copy. He was forever cobbling together some old nonsense at the eleventh hour to meet the deadline. Sunday night's speech had a similar flavour to his last minute columns.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,225
    Foxy said:

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Nigelb said:

    eadric said:

    Fpt for
    Casino_Royale



    No. It's good manners to wash your hands, not cough or sneeze over others, stay at home if you're unwell and treat others with respect.

    Covering your face with a mask is a bit rude and lazy, scares children, and prevents basic daily quality social interactions.

    *****


    Tyson is completely right. Wear a mask and protect your fellow citizens you stupid selfish c*nt

    No. I will not wear a mask. Never...
    Religious objection ? :wink:
    I think by and large that masks are a pointless placebo. They only work in specific and very given close proximity situations.

    Wearing them in general otherwise is just a sign of a nervous and personally insecure person who fears losing control - and just wants to be seen to be doing "something" - and make themselves feel better, and also feel superior to others.

    It is therefore that which is the truly selfish act: it socially isolates you, as well as others, takes the equipment away from others who might really need it and prevents society returning to anything like normal. We all have no social interaction indoors. The last thing we want when we're outside is also having no-one to see and talk to.

    I'd prefer being behind a screen or wearing a transparent visor (if necessary) to covering your face. Obscuring your face is horrible.

    It's funny. There used to be a regular poster on here who was a successful international author who used to make similar arguments about face coverings but he seems to have disappeared now.
    Beyond parody.
    Do you have an argument, or just ad hominem?
    You already know the argument very well. The virus is spread by water droplets. Face coverings will stop a lot of larger droplets.
    Right, so you don't have an argument. You just want to row in behind whoever you think is better able to make it on this site than you are.

    Social distancing (or isolation if infected) is far more effective in managing infection risk that than mask wearing.

    I'm far more worried about people with crap sweaty masks constantly touching their face, adjusting them and then touching surfaces thereafter.

    Is there a place for masks? Sure: in very specific close proximity situations representing high risk.

    But not in general - no - where they take away far more than they add, and even subtract something.
    I am fairly sceptical about public use of masks.

    There is a genuine issue of supply, and poor technique is very frequent.

    While they may have some benefit in preventing transmission, they have limited effect on protecting the individual...
    Isn't the first bit more or less the entire argument in favour of them, though ?
    All the modelling (and arguably the experience of notions that practice it) suggests that near universal mask wearing is very effective in suppressing the spread of infection. (Though I recognise that there is no conclusive evidence on this point)

    As far as protecting the individual in the absence of widespread use is concerned, much of that is down to individual competence in usage anyway.
    It's fairly pointless to lecture others about it if the government isn't actively promoting universal usage, but personally I wear one in any confined space with numbers of other people in it.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,563
    HYUFD said:

    Agree - I doubt its any more than a standard scoping exercise, the response will be deeply political:

    https://twitter.com/DuncanWeldon/status/1260464542871625728?s=20

    https://twitter.com/DuncanWeldon/status/1260464967641370626?s=19
    The interesting point is that, given the dire state our finances are going to be in very shortly, this treasury briefing was no where near as bad as I had expected. I still believe that reality will be significantly worse than this both in terms of tax rises and service cuts.

    I still maintain now would be a very good time to save £100 billion by scrapping HS2. It was an unnecessary vanity project even in good times. Now it is unaffordable idiocy.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,608
    malcolmg said:

    coach said:

    kle4 said:

    isam said:

    I can't believe anyone who really wanted to see their parents hasn't done so since lockdown. Just stand 20 feet away and have a chat, no one is going to arrest you.
    I only see my family 2-3 times a year anyway and even I could figure that out, it does seem strange if people have literally stopped.
    Some honest polling woud be interesting. I suspect from what I hear many people have already for a while been implementing their own sensible measures.
    Let's not pretend the lockdown is being taken seriously by millions, in my small coastal town there's a thriving social life in people's gardens. I've been invited to a card school this afternoon but I'm playing golf.

    People are quietly and sensibly getting on with their lives
    The feeble need to be amused constantly
    How's that "stay home" advice being adhered to in Scotland, malcy?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,225

    Thanks Boris. As someone who was following The Law - which your government passed - I was already going out multiple times a day to exercise when the weather was nice and I needed it.

    Thanks Boris. As someone who was following The Law - which your government passed - I was already going out multiple times a day to exercise when the weather was nice and I needed it. Happily you have now absolutely cleared up the advice, nobody at all is confused hence your approval ratings surging to record highs!

    Great job.
    Boris was notorious for being late with his copy. He was forever cobbling together some old nonsense at the eleventh hour to meet the deadline. Sunday night's speech had a similar flavour to his last minute columns.
    I have some sympathy with that - but there again, I do not aspire to be PM.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,608
    Nigelb said:

    On topic, polling right now is not telling us much useful in the long term. We are at a very specific moment in time.

    Is that an unusual situation to find oneself in ? :smile:
    Now is currently more unusual than is usual....
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,902

    Thanks Boris. As someone who was following The Law - which your government passed - I was already going out multiple times a day to exercise when the weather was nice and I needed it.

    Thanks Boris. As someone who was following The Law - which your government passed - I was already going out multiple times a day to exercise when the weather was nice and I needed it. Happily you have now absolutely cleared up the advice, nobody at all is confused hence your approval ratings surging to record highs!

    Great job.
    You do realise that advice and the law are not the same thing don't you? And for good reason too.

    I bet you read the Highway Code and think "that only says should, so that's just advice I'm not doing it" . . . in wet weather the Highway Code says you should leave a bigger gap between vehicles due to the fact that the wet weather means you may need a bigger gap if you need to slow down suddenly. I bet you are so clever you spotted that's not the law so you can freely tailgate someone at 70mph during a storm. What a guy!
    Yes we've debated this already. My point was and is that the advice is contradictory and confusing. Its pretty clear now that people haven't a fucking clue what they can and cannot do and they want Clarity as they think that if they get it wrong due to ignorance someone could Die. The cabinet - actual cabinet ministers - openly contradict other cabinet ministers the official advice and even themselves from the last interview they gave. Even Piers Moron and Phillip Bloody Scofield are able to effortlessly tear it apart on live TV.

    Sorry, but you have to have pretty large blue blinkers on to think they're managing this well.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,225

    HYUFD said:

    Agree - I doubt its any more than a standard scoping exercise, the response will be deeply political:

    https://twitter.com/DuncanWeldon/status/1260464542871625728?s=20

    https://twitter.com/DuncanWeldon/status/1260464967641370626?s=19
    The interesting point is that, given the dire state our finances are going to be in very shortly, this treasury briefing was no where near as bad as I had expected. I still believe that reality will be significantly worse than this both in terms of tax rises and service cuts.

    I still maintain now would be a very good time to save £100 billion by scrapping HS2. It was an unnecessary vanity project even in good times. Now it is unaffordable idiocy.
    Or it's a large public works program ready to go ?
    Our biggest concern isn't debt so much as a potential lengthy depression.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,729

    HYUFD said:

    MrEd said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    Looks like Sir Keith is now being forensically woke.

    https://twitter.com/keir_starmer/status/1260289651220320258?s=21

    In his election leaflets, he always has a quote from the mosque "community leader" in a prominent position. Funnily enough, there is never a mention from the local Catholic priest, despite the substantial Irish population, or any other faith
    https://twitter.com/JustinWelby/status/1247877078269091845?s=20
    Not that close, Archbishop - remember the 2m rule....
    Has he ever tweeted about how good it was to talk to.
    Boris?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Thanks Boris. As someone who was following The Law - which your government passed - I was already going out multiple times a day to exercise when the weather was nice and I needed it.

    Thanks Boris. As someone who was following The Law - which your government passed - I was already going out multiple times a day to exercise when the weather was nice and I needed it. Happily you have now absolutely cleared up the advice, nobody at all is confused hence your approval ratings surging to record highs!

    Great job.
    You do realise that advice and the law are not the same thing don't you? And for good reason too.

    I bet you read the Highway Code and think "that only says should, so that's just advice I'm not doing it" . . . in wet weather the Highway Code says you should leave a bigger gap between vehicles due to the fact that the wet weather means you may need a bigger gap if you need to slow down suddenly. I bet you are so clever you spotted that's not the law so you can freely tailgate someone at 70mph during a storm. What a guy!
    Yes we've debated this already. My point was and is that the advice is contradictory and confusing. Its pretty clear now that people haven't a fucking clue what they can and cannot do and they want Clarity as they think that if they get it wrong due to ignorance someone could Die. The cabinet - actual cabinet ministers - openly contradict other cabinet ministers the official advice and even themselves from the last interview they gave. Even Piers Moron and Phillip Bloody Scofield are able to effortlessly tear it apart on live TV.

    Sorry, but you have to have pretty large blue blinkers on to think they're managing this well.
    I don't think they're managing this perfectly but only exercising once per day was crystal clear in the advice previously and its a crystal clear change now.

    Trying to break the advice but stick within the law does not make you a genius. And when the advice changes that doesn't mean its not meaningful just because you were previously flouting the advice but sticking within the law.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,225
    edited May 2020
    Republicans to Trump: Wear a mask
    https://www.politico.com/news/2020/05/12/republicans-trump-mask-coronavirus-251239

    Though perhaps they meant a gag ?
  • coachcoach Posts: 250
    malcolmg said:

    coach said:

    malcolmg said:

    coach said:

    malcolmg said:

    Good to see England going back to work

    Someone has to pay so the Irish, Scots and Welsh can sit at home.

    There is a first for everything Alan
    That one line sums up the Scots Nats I suppose
    Expand please , not sure what you are saying
    I'm saying that you are deluded if you believe Scotland isn't propped up by the English
    I thought you were a cretinous halfwitted Fcukwit, thanks for confirmation
    Isn't it extraordinary that inadequate people feel brave behind a keyboard
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    Thanks Boris. As someone who was following The Law - which your government passed - I was already going out multiple times a day to exercise when the weather was nice and I needed it.

    Thanks Boris. As someone who was following The Law - which your government passed - I was already going out multiple times a day to exercise when the weather was nice and I needed it. Happily you have now absolutely cleared up the advice, nobody at all is confused hence your approval ratings surging to record highs!

    Great job.
    Boris was notorious for being late with his copy. He was forever cobbling together some old nonsense at the eleventh hour to meet the deadline. Sunday night's speech had a similar flavour to his last minute columns.
    Boris Johnson is very experienced at writing to entertain, and good at it. He's much less experienced at communicating important information. It shows.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,464

    You can't trust the French, on the flip side I think I know how I'm getting to and back from my summer holiday.

    If you're travelling outside France do you know how you are going to get back into it?
    My summer holiday this year will be Blackpool, or if I'm feeling really adventurous, Leith.
    When I lived in Sunderland people from Leith used to visit for their summer holidays. Honestly.
    Leith - not that bad, particularly around the docks. A couple of good boozers, and walking out towards Queensferry is grand.

    Sunderland - has a beach right by the city centre, with sand and a sort of pier.

    I walked from Hartlepool to Newcastle last year and Sunderland was grand. There are ropey bits, but the river makes a fine setting and there's stuff to do on that coast heading north.

    Blackpool, however, I went on an away day in January and the highlight was my first class booking on the way home.
    It' many years since I was in Sunderland, but the coast North of the Wear was a very pleasant place to be. Could be very, very cold in winter, of course.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,225
    This is interesting.
    Foxy ?

    COVID-19 Virulence in Aged Patients Might Be Impacted by the Host Cellular MicroRNAs Abundance/Profile
    http://www.aginganddisease.org/EN/10.14336/AD.2020.0428
    The World health organization (WHO) declared Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) a global pandemic and a severe public health crisis. Drastic measures to combat COVID-19 are warranted due to its contagiousness and higher mortality rates, specifically in the aged patient population. At the current stage, due to the lack of effective treatment strategies for COVID-19 innovative approaches need to be considered. It is well known that host cellular miRNAs can directly target both viral 3'UTR and coding region of the viral genome to induce the antiviral effect. In this study, we did in silico analysis of human miRNAs targeting SARS (4 isolates) and COVID-19 (29 recent isolates from different regions) genome and correlated our findings with aging and underlying conditions. We found 848 common miRNAs targeting the SARS genome and 873 common microRNAs targeting the COVID-19 genome. Out of a total of 848 miRNAs from SARS, only 558 commonly present in all COVID-19 isolates. Interestingly, 315 miRNAs are unique for COVID-19 isolates and 290 miRNAs unique to SARS. We also noted that out of 29 COVID-19 isolates, 19 isolates have identical miRNA targets. The COVID-19 isolates, Netherland (EPI_ISL_422601), Australia (EPI_ISL_413214), and Wuhan (EPI_ISL_403931) showed six, four, and four unique miRNAs targets, respectively. Furthermore, GO, and KEGG pathway analysis showed that COVID-19 targeting human miRNAs involved in various age-related signaling and diseases. Recent studies also suggested that some of the human miRNAs targeting COVID-19 decreased with aging and underlying conditions. GO and KEGG identified impaired signaling pathway may be due to low abundance miRNA which might be one of the contributing factors for the increasing severity and mortality in aged individuals and with other underlying conditions. Further, in vitro and in vivo studies are needed to validate some of these targets and identify potential therapeutic targets....
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222
    edited May 2020
    Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Nigelb said:

    eadric said:

    Fpt for
    Casino_Royale



    No. It's good manners to wash your hands, not cough or sneeze over others, stay at home if you're unwell and treat others with respect.

    Covering your face with a mask is a bit rude and lazy, scares children, and prevents basic daily quality social interactions.

    *****


    Tyson is completely right. Wear a mask and protect your fellow citizens you stupid selfish c*nt

    No. I will not wear a mask. Never...
    Religious objection ? :wink:
    I think by and large that masks are a pointless placebo. They only work in specific and very given close proximity situations.

    Wearing them in general otherwise is just a sign of a nervous and personally insecure person who fears losing control - and just wants to be seen to be doing "something" - and make themselves feel better, and also feel superior to others.

    It is therefore that which is the truly selfish act: it socially isolates you, as well as others, takes the equipment away from others who might really need it and prevents society returning to anything like normal. We all have no social interaction indoors. The last thing we want when we're outside is also having no-one to see and talk to.

    I'd prefer being behind a screen or wearing a transparent visor (if necessary) to covering your face. Obscuring your face is horrible.

    It's funny. There used to be a regular poster on here who was a successful international author who used to make similar arguments about face coverings but he seems to have disappeared now.
    Beyond parody.
    Do you have an argument, or just ad hominem?
    You already know the argument very well. The virus is spread by water droplets. Face coverings will stop a lot of larger droplets.
    Right, so you don't have an argument. You just want to row in behind whoever you think is better able to make it on this site than you are.

    Social distancing (or isolation if infected) is far more effective in managing infection risk that than mask wearing.

    I'm far more worried about people with crap sweaty masks constantly touching their face, adjusting them and then touching surfaces thereafter.

    Is there a place for masks? Sure: in very specific close proximity situations representing high risk.

    But not in general - no - where they take away far more than they add, and even subtract something.
    I am fairly sceptical about public use of masks.

    There is a genuine issue of supply, and poor technique is very frequent.

    While they may have some benefit in preventing transmission, they have limited effect on protecting the individual...
    Isn't the first bit more or less the entire argument in favour of them, though ?
    All the modelling (and arguably the experience of notions that practice it) suggests that near universal mask wearing is very effective in suppressing the spread of infection. (Though I recognise that there is no conclusive evidence on this point)

    As far as protecting the individual in the absence of widespread use is concerned, much of that is down to individual competence in usage anyway.
    It's fairly pointless to lecture others about it if the government isn't actively promoting universal usage, but personally I wear one in any confined space with numbers of other people in it.
    The benefit that masks have in preventing transmission may be largely illusory.

    The argument, of course, is that a cough from someone with the virus wouldn`t be transmitted beyond the mask. However, if someone has the virus and is coughing you shouldn`t be out in public anyway. Masks may encourage an infected person from leaving his/her house when he/she shouldn`t.

    If you have no virus then the mask is pointless. If you have the virus but don`t know it then you won`t be coughing.

    They make the the wearer feel good and virtuous. That`s the benefit I think. (Assuming you regard this as a benefit.)
This discussion has been closed.