Just skip them if you find them so annoying. I am interested in what a lot of them have to say.
What gets me is the weirdly patronising assumption that the rest of us have no idea where to find that endless stream of spaff and bilge if we wanted it. We get it, Twitter's full of ever so 'witty' memes and wry comments that .... oh, sorry, I passed out for a moment there from boredom just thinking about it.
I just don't see why it bothers you so much, there are a number of peoples' posts that metaphorically leave me wanting to grab them warmly by the throat but I just ignore.
Are you sure it's not the content of the tweets that is what is really winding you up?
It would be quite something to have an owner of a club pirating their own product.
The UAE aka Sheik Mansour also own Arabsat so it’s already happening.
Arabsat isn't the owner of the piracy platform though. The Saudi royals are. It's like saying sky should be responsible for people getting dodgy satellite receivers because they are using sky dishes to get the signal.
But the Saudi Royals aren’t buying Newcastle United. Saudi’s Public Investment Fund is, a completely separate legal entity.
Ina few weeks time the government is going to be wondering why so few workers have gone back to work, are going back to work or will be going back to work in the future.
They'll be wondering why so few businesses are starting up again as the spending soars ever higher.
Every time I read the news, the size of what I imagine our budget deficit to be in say six months time just grows. From grand canyon to wide Sargasso sea.
What Johnson has shut down he will have the devil's own job opening up again. And that is why long lockdown is a gargantuan mistake.
So your assumption, contrary to others, is that if an employee decides not to go back to work, even though the employer is operational again, he/she will still be able to draw furlough?
I confess that was my assumption - but the disincentives for both employer and employee to go back to work are so large that I'm not sure how much it matters anyway.
And who decides which firms are 'operational?' the employer or the government?
They are all entitled to be operational except for those in the sectors on the list, e.g. pubs, gyms, restaurants etc.
Good point but where's the incentive for the employer to re-open? horrible economic conditions, costly regulations on social distancing....particularly small businesses .I suppose there are some tax holidays on offer.
The incentive is if they don’t reopen soon they may never reopen
Arabsat is owned by 21 different Arab states including Qatar. Just more paper nonsense.
Right now the PL cannot be pissing off broadcasters and rights holders.
They also cannot be pissing off potentially hundreds of millions of pounds investment into their main product.
That will not cover the losses of the PL if BeIN Sports stop buying PL rights.
Which they won’t. This is nothing but Qatar spitting their dummy out. The deal will go through.
Potentially the PL are looking at a rebate of circa £300 million* if the PL is voided/curtailed this season.
About 10 clubs will go to the wall if there's no games played by August, the next tranche of TV money is due to be paid in July/August, which the broadcasters will not pay if there's no matches, which is likely.
*Potentially £750 million if Sky and BT don't play ball.
It would be quite something to have an owner of a club pirating their own product.
The UAE aka Sheik Mansour also own Arabsat so it’s already happening.
Arabsat isn't the owner of the piracy platform though. The Saudi royals are. It's like saying sky should be responsible for people getting dodgy satellite receivers because they are using sky dishes to get the signal.
But the Saudi Royals aren’t buying Newcastle United. Saudi’s Public Investment Fund is, a completely separate legal entity.
Lolwat?
As I said, I’m not worried. The deal will go through despite the vested interests trying to stop it.
Ina few weeks time the government is going to be wondering why so few workers have gone back to work, are going back to work or will be going back to work in the future.
They'll be wondering why so few businesses are starting up again as the spending soars ever higher.
Every time I read the news, the size of what I imagine our budget deficit to be in say six months time just grows. From grand canyon to wide Sargasso sea.
What Johnson has shut down he will have the devil's own job opening up again. And that is why long lockdown is a gargantuan mistake.
So your assumption, contrary to others, is that if an employee decides not to go back to work, even though the employer is operational again, he/she will still be able to draw furlough?
Yes!
An employer can have some employees on wages and some on furlough. It is not and never has been all or nothing.
So any employee can say "I`m not coming back to work because I don`t feel safe" and that employee still gets furlough payments when employee B goes back to work. This is where I started last night and was shot down in flames by posters.
I wonder if you slightly misunderstand the furlough scheme.
The Coronavirus Job Retention scheme covers 80% the wages (to to IIRC £2500 per week) of furloughed staff, but is paid by government, to employers, who in the majority of cases will have already paid their staff at 80% or more.
However the duration of the furlough is set entirely by the employer.
I have two furloughed staff. If I wanted to, I think I could give them notice (I can't remember the terms off hand - 5 days?) that it ends, tonight. I won't be, because we've actually taken up their slack at the moment whilst other functions of the business are very quiet (no trade shows, etc).
So, it will be up to the employer.
If I was an employer who wanted to get my factory up and running and so advised all my staff that they were no longer furloughed, and had put in place the social distancing measures, and 95% of my employees said they would return, but 5% said they wouldn't, the 5% can't unilaterally decide to stay furloughed. And given the scheme ends (as is) at the end of June, and redundancies need 45 days notice, I know who I would be looking to make redundant....
However, say I decided I didn't need my the 3 receptionists back? I could keep them furloughed until the end of June.
Anyhoo, I am no longer a member of the Tory party, after 23 years, my membership of the party expired yesterday.
I can't see me rejoining soon, which makes me immensely sad.
Edit - Feck, I was a member of the Tory party for 4 times as long as I was married.
The Conservative party left you, it will come back one day
No, it hasn’t. I’m broadly on the same wing of the party as TSE and I’m perfectly content with this government’s overall record. I respect his decision to leave and hope he will rejoin at some point but in my view the party is still firmly rooted in its traditional centre-right outlook.
John O...look back at the last 4 years....forget Corbyn...what would it take you to see how absolutely atrocious our Govt has been?
We are now looking into the abyss...the break up of the union, an uncontrolled pandemic, and the ongoing torture of Brexit....
All, with good governance, avoidable.....
Frankly, dearest comrade, rather more than your increasingly splenetic hyperbole.
Arabsat is owned by 21 different Arab states including Qatar. Just more paper nonsense.
Right now the PL cannot be pissing off broadcasters and rights holders.
They also cannot be pissing off potentially hundreds of millions of pounds investment into their main product.
That will not cover the losses of the PL if BeIN Sports stop buying PL rights.
Which they won’t. This is nothing but Qatar spitting their dummy out. The deal will go through.
Potentially the PL are looking at a rebate of circa £300 million* if the PL is voided/curtailed this season.
About 10 clubs will go to the wall if there's no games played by August, the next tranche of TV money is due to be paid in July/August, which the broadcasters will not pay if there's no matches, which is likely.
*Potentially £750 million if Sky and BT don't play ball.
A lot bigger than that according to a media rights person I know.
Arabsat is owned by 21 different Arab states including Qatar. Just more paper nonsense.
Right now the PL cannot be pissing off broadcasters and rights holders.
They also cannot be pissing off potentially hundreds of millions of pounds investment into their main product.
That will not cover the losses of the PL if BeIN Sports stop buying PL rights.
Which they won’t. This is nothing but Qatar spitting their dummy out. The deal will go through.
Potentially the PL are looking at a rebate of circa £300 million* if the PL is voided/curtailed this season.
About 10 clubs will go to the wall if there's no games played by August, the next tranche of TV money is due to be paid in July/August, which the broadcasters will not pay if there's no matches, which is likely.
*Potentially £750 million if Sky and BT don't play ball.
A lot bigger than that according to a media rights person I know.
It's a lot more if you factor things like gate receipts, hospitality, and sponsorship.
Those figures I mentioned are just on TV rights for this season.
I am Convinced Starmer will be a massive flop and am willing to take bets against him succeeding on that basis. So anyone interested let me know some suggestions. I will work on some tempting offers and publish them later this evening
This is a betting site, they used to say
I also think SKS will be a flop. He drones on more than Ed Milliband does. I zone out, and I'm interested in politics!
Anyhoo, I am no longer a member of the Tory party, after 23 years, my membership of the party expired yesterday.
I can't see me rejoining soon, which makes me immensely sad.
Edit - Feck, I was a member of the Tory party for 4 times as long as I was married.
I stopped being a member of the Liberal Democrats at the end of March having joined the Liberal Party in the autumn of 1979..
It's strange to be politically independent and non-aligned.
I've no interest in joining another party at this time and my vote at the next GE is up for grabs though in East Ham it doesn't make a lot of difference.
Good lord , just seen Sir Keirs response on the news. So stiff and dull. He will never be PM
What do you expect him to do? Do a few jokes and magical tricks....
I think within 12 months we'll desperate to see some competence running the country because for the lat 4 years we have really been governed by clowns...
The problem is that Starmer isn't competent enough to score in political open goals as opposition leader.
So not much likelihood of competency if he had to make the difficult decisions when the pressure was on.
Starmer will make a difference.
He is more competent and credible than any Labour leader since, well, Blair.
He's better than Brown (less of a jerk), better than Milliband (slightly less of a geek) and better than Corbyn (goes without saying).
Now, will he win a General Election? Probably not.
But I would expect that he will do no worse than Milliband.
The best he can realistically achieve is a repeat of 2010, I think.
I am Convinced Starmer will be a massive flop and am willing to take bets against him succeeding on that basis. So anyone interested let me know some suggestions. I will work on some tempting offers and publish them later this evening
This is a betting site, they used to say
Starmers don't win elections, Borises lose them. He is dull as ditchwater but nowhere near as useless as May or Brown. So his actual ability isn't particularly tied to outcomes at the moment.
Just skip them if you find them so annoying. I am interested in what a lot of them have to say.
What gets me is the weirdly patronising assumption that the rest of us have no idea where to find that endless stream of spaff and bilge if we wanted it. We get it, Twitter's full of ever so 'witty' memes and wry comments that .... oh, sorry, I passed out for a moment there from boredom just thinking about it.
Twitter is the home of self-congratulary smart-arse smug twats who have never had to make a more difficult decision than whether to wax their beard.
You can usefully ignore its entire output. Even more so those who retweet it.
I am Convinced Starmer will be a massive flop and am willing to take bets against him succeeding on that basis. So anyone interested let me know some suggestions. I will work on some tempting offers and publish them later this evening
This is a betting site, they used to say
Starmers don't win elections, Borises lose them. He is dull as ditchwater but nowhere near as useless as May or Brown. So his actual ability isn't particularly tied to outcomes at the moment.
That's my solution. Genetically engineer a modification to this virus so that it is extremely contagious (everyone gets it quickly) and totally harmless. It acts as the vaccine without having to manufacture, distribute or inject it.
Anyhoo, I am no longer a member of the Tory party, after 23 years, my membership of the party expired yesterday.
I can't see me rejoining soon, which makes me immensely sad.
Edit - Feck, I was a member of the Tory party for 4 times as long as I was married.
I stopped being a member of the Liberal Democrats at the end of March having joined the Liberal Party in the autumn of 1979..
It's strange to be politically independent and non-aligned.
I've no interest in joining another party at this time and my vote at the next GE is up for grabs though in East Ham it doesn't make a lot of difference.
The three of us with divers others should form the Highly Partisan Raging Centrists Party.
TSE - Leader and Foreign Affairs AlistairM - home Affairs You - finance Topping - defence and pandemic planning, starting with putting on crucial race meetings as a herd immunity strategy. Me - Education and Awesome Punning
Policies - anyone caught putting pineapple on pizza to be sentenced to discussing psephology with Hyufd and Justin for a minimum of four hours.
I am Convinced Starmer will be a massive flop and am willing to take bets against him succeeding on that basis. So anyone interested let me know some suggestions. I will work on some tempting offers and publish them later this evening
This is a betting site, they used to say
Starmers don't win elections, Borises lose them. He is dull as ditchwater but nowhere near as useless as May or Brown. So his actual ability isn't particularly tied to outcomes at the moment.
Just skip them if you find them so annoying. I am interested in what a lot of them have to say.
What gets me is the weirdly patronising assumption that the rest of us have no idea where to find that endless stream of spaff and bilge if we wanted it. We get it, Twitter's full of ever so 'witty' memes and wry comments that .... oh, sorry, I passed out for a moment there from boredom just thinking about it.
Twitter is the home of self-congratulary smart-arse smug twats who have never had to make a more difficult decision than whether to wax their beard.
You can usefully ignore its entire output. Even more so those who retweet it.
I don't mind the occasional sharing of tweets. But when it's just an endless cut and paste of random biased opinions thrown out by no-name commentators on twitter, it detracts from the quality of conversation in the thread.
I'm interested in reading the opinions of people who take time to post here. People who are generally thoughtful and measured and contribute to intelligent debate. Not dribbling morons who post blatantly partisan, point-scoring bollocks.
Constant links to tweets mean people respond more to those than to each other, and well-written, thoughtful posts get pushed further down the page without reply.
Anyhoo, I am no longer a member of the Tory party, after 23 years, my membership of the party expired yesterday.
I can't see me rejoining soon, which makes me immensely sad.
Edit - Feck, I was a member of the Tory party for 4 times as long as I was married.
The Conservative party left you, it will come back one day
No, it hasn’t. I’m broadly on the same wing of the party as TSE and I’m perfectly content with this government’s overall record. I respect his decision to leave and hope he will rejoin at some point but in my view the party is still firmly rooted in its traditional centre-right outlook.
John O...look back at the last 4 years....forget Corbyn...what would it take you to see how absolutely atrocious our Govt has been?
We are now looking into the abyss...the break up of the union, an uncontrolled pandemic, and the ongoing torture of Brexit....
All, with good governance, avoidable.....
Frankly, dearest comrade, rather more than your increasingly splenetic hyperbole.
Your ideology, or your loyalty, or your hatred of lefties....it just probably blinds you....I dunno, because you are probably quite sensible....somewhere....well you were once....
I really did think Brexit was bad...just the whole thing was torture...and all brought on us by Tory politicking while the opposition went absent....
But now...what is the excuse that our Govt has been so inept? Costing thousands of lives and destroying the economy..
Arabsat is owned by 21 different Arab states including Qatar. Just more paper nonsense.
Right now the PL cannot be pissing off broadcasters and rights holders.
They also cannot be pissing off potentially hundreds of millions of pounds investment into their main product.
That will not cover the losses of the PL if BeIN Sports stop buying PL rights.
Which they won’t. This is nothing but Qatar spitting their dummy out. The deal will go through.
Potentially the PL are looking at a rebate of circa £300 million* if the PL is voided/curtailed this season.
About 10 clubs will go to the wall if there's no games played by August, the next tranche of TV money is due to be paid in July/August, which the broadcasters will not pay if there's no matches, which is likely.
*Potentially £750 million if Sky and BT don't play ball.
If things go sufficiently badly then I think, perhaps, at the end of this that Britain may only be able to scrape together one professional football league - consisting of the survivors of the top two tiers in England, plus (perhaps) Rangers and Celtic.
Even if the top two tiers in England can get going again behind closed doors in time to rescue the TV money, everyone below them has had it without a large cash injection from Government - many times what has already been spent to prop up Rugby League. They're too reliant on gate receipts to survive perhaps eighteen months or two years without spectators.
Good lord , just seen Sir Keirs response on the news. So stiff and dull. He will never be PM
I don’t think he could get an overall majority.
But the key target is 57 seats from the Conservatives. That would take him back past Gordon Brown, and probably make it impossible for the Tories to form a coalition arrangement with the DUP (and the Liberal Democrats won’t touch them again even under Ed Davey’s leadership).
I think he has a reasonable chance at that.
He will need SNP support who will demand another referendum (if they haven't held another by then) but without Scotland an anti-Tory majority will be even harder to achieve.
As Starmer would take the UK back into the single market which was what the SNP wanted in the first place he could afford to offer them indyref2 with devomax and No would likely win it. The LDs would support him too over Boris and hard Brexit.
So Boris needs to win a majority again next time to stay PM, the DUP would not support him either as it would prefer EEA for the whole UK
I am Convinced Starmer will be a massive flop and am willing to take bets against him succeeding on that basis. So anyone interested let me know some suggestions. I will work on some tempting offers and publish them later this evening
This is a betting site, they used to say
Starmers don't win elections, Borises lose them. He is dull as ditchwater but nowhere near as useless as May or Brown. So his actual ability isn't particularly tied to outcomes at the moment.
That's my solution. Genetically engineer a modification to this virus so that it is extremely contagious (everyone gets it quickly) and totally harmless. It acts as the vaccine without having to manufacture, distribute or inject it.
Aren't some colds carried by coronaviruses ? Any chance people with a coronavirus standard cold could be identified and just spread that round ?
By 2024, Johnson's attempts at Churchillian soaring notes of keep going, this wonderful country will always triumph, this island of stalwart yeoman standing alone against the deadly foe, will sound as empty as a pulled xmas cracker.
Starmer is next PM is looking far more likely tonight.
By 2024, Johnson's attempts at Churchillian soaring notes of keep going, this wonderful country will always triumph, this island of stalwart yeoman standing alone against the deadly foe, will sound as empty as a pulled xmas cracker.
Starmer is next PM is looking far more likely tonight.
Good lord , just seen Sir Keirs response on the news. So stiff and dull. He will never be PM
What do you expect him to do? Do a few jokes and magical tricks....
I think within 12 months we'll desperate to see some competence running the country because for the lat 4 years we have really been governed by clowns...
The problem is that Starmer isn't competent enough to score in political open goals as opposition leader.
So not much likelihood of competency if he had to make the difficult decisions when the pressure was on.
Starmer will make a difference.
He is more competent and credible than any Labour leader since, well, Blair.
He's better than Brown (less of a jerk), better than Milliband (slightly less of a geek) and better than Corbyn (goes without saying).
Now, will he win a General Election? Probably not.
But I would expect that he will do no worse than Milliband.
Starmer is more competent than the current prime minister. That's not the issue. It's whether competence is important to voters. It wasn't in 2019.
Ina few weeks time the government is going to be wondering why so few workers have gone back to work, are going back to work or will be going back to work in the future.
They'll be wondering why so few businesses are starting up again as the spending soars ever higher.
Every time I read the news, the size of what I imagine our budget deficit to be in say six months time just grows. From grand canyon to wide Sargasso sea.
What Johnson has shut down he will have the devil's own job opening up again. And that is why long lockdown is a gargantuan mistake.
So your assumption, contrary to others, is that if an employee decides not to go back to work, even though the employer is operational again, he/she will still be able to draw furlough?
Yes!
An employer can have some employees on wages and some on furlough. It is not and never has been all or nothing.
So any employee can say "I`m not coming back to work because I don`t feel safe" and that employee still gets furlough payments when employee B goes back to work. This is where I started last night and was shot down in flames by posters.
I wonder if you slightly misunderstand the furlough scheme.
The Coronavirus Job Retention scheme covers 80% the wages (to to IIRC £2500 per week) of furloughed staff, but is paid by government, to employers, who in the majority of cases will have already paid their staff at 80% or more.
However the duration of the furlough is set entirely by the employer.
I have two furloughed staff. If I wanted to, I think I could give them notice (I can't remember the terms off hand - 5 days?) that it ends, tonight. I won't be, because we've actually taken up their slack at the moment whilst other functions of the business are very quiet (no trade shows, etc).
So, it will be up to the employer.
If I was an employer who wanted to get my factory up and running and so advised all my staff that they were no longer furloughed, and had put in place the social distancing measures, and 95% of my employees said they would return, but 5% said they wouldn't, the 5% can't unilaterally decide to stay furloughed. And given the scheme ends (as is) at the end of June, and redundancies need 45 days notice, I know who I would be looking to make redundant....
However, say I decided I didn't need my the 3 receptionists back? I could keep them furloughed until the end of June.
Thanks for that. In that case nothing has changed this week.
An employer which operates in one of the "not barred from opening" sectors (i.e. not pubs, gyms etc etc) can choose whether to open or not, and can choose whom to furlough or not. This was always the caase, so nothing has changed.
Good lord , just seen Sir Keirs response on the news. So stiff and dull. He will never be PM
What do you expect him to do? Do a few jokes and magical tricks....
I think within 12 months we'll desperate to see some competence running the country because for the lat 4 years we have really been governed by clowns...
The problem is that Starmer isn't competent enough to score in political open goals as opposition leader.
So not much likelihood of competency if he had to make the difficult decisions when the pressure was on.
Starmer will make a difference.
He is more competent and credible than any Labour leader since, well, Blair.
He's better than Brown (less of a jerk), better than Milliband (slightly less of a geek) and better than Corbyn (goes without saying).
Now, will he win a General Election? Probably not.
But I would expect that he will do no worse than Milliband.
The best he can realistically achieve is a repeat of 2010, I think.
I wonder if you slightly misunderstand the furlough scheme.
The Coronavirus Job Retention scheme covers 80% the wages (to to IIRC £2500 per week) of furloughed staff, but is paid by government, to employers, who in the majority of cases will have already paid their staff at 80% or more.
However the duration of the furlough is set entirely by the employer.
I have two furloughed staff. If I wanted to, I think I could give them notice (I can't remember the terms off hand - 5 days?) that it ends, tonight. I won't be, because we've actually taken up their slack at the moment whilst other functions of the business are very quiet (no trade shows, etc).
So, it will be up to the employer.
If I was an employer who wanted to get my factory up and running and so advised all my staff that they were no longer furloughed, and had put in place the social distancing measures, and 95% of my employees said they would return, but 5% said they wouldn't, the 5% can't unilaterally decide to stay furloughed. And given the scheme ends (as is) at the end of June, and redundancies need 45 days notice, I know who I would be looking to make redundant....
However, say I decided I didn't need my the 3 receptionists back? I could keep them furloughed until the end of June.
That's my undersatanding too. The weak spot for employers is being confident what social distancing requires. Our office has 90 staff, about 60 of whom are in one big open-plan office. The number you could keep 2 metres apart is probably around a dozen, and even then we'd worry about joint entrance, toilets, etc.
As it's a classic office environment we can nearly all wfh indefinitely, and so far as I can see we'll have to. A colleague with a friend at Amazon US (the HQ not the dispatching department) saya they've just announced that they will wfj and not reopen the office till October at the earliest.
Good lord , just seen Sir Keirs response on the news. So stiff and dull. He will never be PM
What do you expect him to do? Do a few jokes and magical tricks....
I think within 12 months we'll desperate to see some competence running the country because for the lat 4 years we have really been governed by clowns...
The problem is that Starmer isn't competent enough to score in political open goals as opposition leader.
So not much likelihood of competency if he had to make the difficult decisions when the pressure was on.
Starmer will make a difference.
He is more competent and credible than any Labour leader since, well, Blair.
He's better than Brown (less of a jerk), better than Milliband (slightly less of a geek) and better than Corbyn (goes without saying).
Now, will he win a General Election? Probably not.
But I would expect that he will do no worse than Milliband.
Starmer is more competent than the current prime minister. That's not the issue. It's whether competence is important to voters. It wasn't in 2019.
I don't think the average voter believed Corbyn was more competent than Johnson.
Good lord , just seen Sir Keirs response on the news. So stiff and dull. He will never be PM
What do you expect him to do? Do a few jokes and magical tricks....
I think within 12 months we'll desperate to see some competence running the country because for the lat 4 years we have really been governed by clowns...
The problem is that Starmer isn't competent enough to score in political open goals as opposition leader.
So not much likelihood of competency if he had to make the difficult decisions when the pressure was on.
Starmer will make a difference.
He is more competent and credible than any Labour leader since, well, Blair.
He's better than Brown (less of a jerk), better than Milliband (slightly less of a geek) and better than Corbyn (goes without saying).
Now, will he win a General Election? Probably not.
But I would expect that he will do no worse than Milliband.
Starmer is more competent than the current prime minister. That's not the issue. It's whether competence is important to voters. It wasn't in 2019.
Well, TBF we can’t assume that from 2019. It’s like saying people didn’t want a quick death from being shot when the two forms of death offered were garrotting and slow slicing.
I wonder if you slightly misunderstand the furlough scheme.
The Coronavirus Job Retention scheme covers 80% the wages (to to IIRC £2500 per week) of furloughed staff, but is paid by government, to employers, who in the majority of cases will have already paid their staff at 80% or more.
However the duration of the furlough is set entirely by the employer.
I have two furloughed staff. If I wanted to, I think I could give them notice (I can't remember the terms off hand - 5 days?) that it ends, tonight. I won't be, because we've actually taken up their slack at the moment whilst other functions of the business are very quiet (no trade shows, etc).
So, it will be up to the employer.
If I was an employer who wanted to get my factory up and running and so advised all my staff that they were no longer furloughed, and had put in place the social distancing measures, and 95% of my employees said they would return, but 5% said they wouldn't, the 5% can't unilaterally decide to stay furloughed. And given the scheme ends (as is) at the end of June, and redundancies need 45 days notice, I know who I would be looking to make redundant....
However, say I decided I didn't need my the 3 receptionists back? I could keep them furloughed until the end of June.
That's my undersatanding too. The weak spot for employers is being confident what social distancing requires. Our office has 90 staff, about 60 of whom are in one big open-plan office. The number you could keep 2 metres apart is probably around a dozen, and even then we'd worry about joint entrance, toilets, etc.
As it's a classic office environment we can nearly all wfh indefinitely, and so far as I can see we'll have to. A colleague with a friend at Amazon US (the HQ not the dispatching department) saya they've just announced that they will wfj and not reopen the office till October at the earliest.
"wfj"? I know it's a typo, but made me laugh. Work from the John?
That's my solution. Genetically engineer a modification to this virus so that it is extremely contagious (everyone gets it quickly) and totally harmless. It acts as the vaccine without having to manufacture, distribute or inject it.
Aren't some colds carried by coronaviruses ? Any chance people with a coronavirus standard cold could be identified and just spread that round ?
There was an excellent virologist on world service....he said that it is likely that random testing will pick up alot of the population with weak antibodies to coronavirus ...but means nothing....
The only thing to tell you if you've had CV 19 proper is if you've been tested and found to be positive......the rest is noise, and guesswork.....
13781 NHS England hospital deaths post peak, 9747 pre peak. It'd point to 9 - 10% of the population having had it. That'd also tie in broadly with the PM's "half a million" deaths in the broadcast.
Good lord , just seen Sir Keirs response on the news. So stiff and dull. He will never be PM
What do you expect him to do? Do a few jokes and magical tricks....
I think within 12 months we'll desperate to see some competence running the country because for the lat 4 years we have really been governed by clowns...
The problem is that Starmer isn't competent enough to score in political open goals as opposition leader.
So not much likelihood of competency if he had to make the difficult decisions when the pressure was on.
Starmer will make a difference.
He is more competent and credible than any Labour leader since, well, Blair.
He's better than Brown (less of a jerk), better than Milliband (slightly less of a geek) and better than Corbyn (goes without saying).
Now, will he win a General Election? Probably not.
But I would expect that he will do no worse than Milliband.
Starmer is more competent than the current prime minister. That's not the issue. It's whether competence is important to voters. It wasn't in 2019.
I don't think the average voter believed Corbyn was more competent than Johnson.
I also maintain it was a less unpopular contest.
It always is to a degree, but with the percentage that Johnson go it wasn't just unpopularity that gets the opponent to that level.
Good lord , just seen Sir Keirs response on the news. So stiff and dull. He will never be PM
I don’t think he could get an overall majority.
But the key target is 57 seats from the Conservatives. That would take him back past Gordon Brown, and probably make it impossible for the Tories to form a coalition arrangement with the DUP (and the Liberal Democrats won’t touch them again even under Ed Davey’s leadership).
I think he has a reasonable chance at that.
He will need SNP support who will demand another referendum (if they haven't held another by then) but without Scotland an anti-Tory majority will be even harder to achieve.
As Starmer would take the UK back into the single market which was what the SNP wanted in the first place he could afford to offer them indyref2 with devomax and No would likely win it. The LDs would support him too over Boris and hard Brexit.
So Boris needs to win a majority again next time to stay PM, the DUP would not support him either as it would prefer EEA for the whole UK
By 2024, Johnson's attempts at Churchillian soaring notes of keep going, this wonderful country will always triumph, this island of stalwart yeoman standing alone against the deadly foe, will sound as empty as a pulled xmas cracker.
Starmer is next PM is looking far more likely tonight.
It would make sense 14 years in. But it still won't be easy to achieve given that majority.
Good lord , just seen Sir Keirs response on the news. So stiff and dull. He will never be PM
What do you expect him to do? Do a few jokes and magical tricks....
I think within 12 months we'll desperate to see some competence running the country because for the lat 4 years we have really been governed by clowns...
The problem is that Starmer isn't competent enough to score in political open goals as opposition leader.
So not much likelihood of competency if he had to make the difficult decisions when the pressure was on.
Starmer will make a difference.
He is more competent and credible than any Labour leader since, well, Blair.
He's better than Brown (less of a jerk), better than Milliband (slightly less of a geek) and better than Corbyn (goes without saying).
Now, will he win a General Election? Probably not.
But I would expect that he will do no worse than Milliband.
Starmer is more competent than the current prime minister. That's not the issue. It's whether competence is important to voters. It wasn't in 2019.
I don't think the average voter believed Corbyn was more competent than Johnson.
I also maintain it was a less unpopular contest.
It always is to a degree, but with the percentage that Johnson go it wasn't just unpopularity that gets the opponent to that level.
Not sure. Do you think May was popular by the end? She got 43%.
13781 NHS England hospital deaths post peak, 9747 pre peak. It'd point to 9 - 10% of the population having had it. That'd also tie in broadly with the PM's "half a million" deaths in the broadcast.
Are we definitely getting the Porton Down test results soon? It would be nice not to have to speculate on this.
Good lord , just seen Sir Keirs response on the news. So stiff and dull. He will never be PM
What do you expect him to do? Do a few jokes and magical tricks....
I think within 12 months we'll desperate to see some competence running the country because for the lat 4 years we have really been governed by clowns...
The problem is that Starmer isn't competent enough to score in political open goals as opposition leader.
So not much likelihood of competency if he had to make the difficult decisions when the pressure was on.
Starmer will make a difference.
He is more competent and credible than any Labour leader since, well, Blair.
He's better than Brown (less of a jerk), better than Milliband (slightly less of a geek) and better than Corbyn (goes without saying).
Now, will he win a General Election? Probably not.
But I would expect that he will do no worse than Milliband.
Starmer is more competent than the current prime minister. That's not the issue. It's whether competence is important to voters. It wasn't in 2019.
Charisma normally beats competence but dull leaders seen as competent can win in times of economic and social difficulty e.g. 1945 and 1970 or if the alternative is seen as too extreme e.g. 1992
Anyhoo, I am no longer a member of the Tory party, after 23 years, my membership of the party expired yesterday.
I can't see me rejoining soon, which makes me immensely sad.
Edit - Feck, I was a member of the Tory party for 4 times as long as I was married.
The Conservative party left you, it will come back one day
No, it hasn’t. I’m broadly on the same wing of the party as TSE and I’m perfectly content with this government’s overall record. I respect his decision to leave and hope he will rejoin at some point but in my view the party is still firmly rooted in its traditional centre-right outlook.
John O...look back at the last 4 years....forget Corbyn...what would it take you to see how absolutely atrocious our Govt has been?
We are now looking into the abyss...the break up of the union, an uncontrolled pandemic, and the ongoing torture of Brexit....
All, with good governance, avoidable.....
Frankly, dearest comrade, rather more than your increasingly splenetic hyperbole.
Your ideology, or your loyalty, or your hatred of lefties....it just probably blinds you....I dunno, because you are probably quite sensible....somewhere....well you were once....
I really did think Brexit was bad...just the whole thing was torture...and all brought on us by Tory politicking while the opposition went absent....
But now...what is the excuse that our Govt has been so inept? Costing thousands of lives and destroying the economy..
I voted to Remain in 2016 and don’t regret that choice. But the majority of people disagreed and it was a democratic imperative that that decision was implemented. But this is all well-worn terrain and I can’t summon enough energy to attempt a fifty thousandth iteration. I reject your assertion that this government is inept. I do indeed loath the far left, but don’t have any particular animus against Starmer or Lisa Nandy. Labour is unquestionably more ‘electable’ but I will never support them. And yes, I continue to be sensible though I say so myself.
When the general antibody test comes out - for those that have had a positive test already, we'll need to add 1 to the 'recovered' column but not to the active case column. For those who have had no test previously we'll need to add 1 to the active total but backdated and 1 to the recovered column
Good lord , just seen Sir Keirs response on the news. So stiff and dull. He will never be PM
I don’t think he could get an overall majority.
But the key target is 57 seats from the Conservatives. That would take him back past Gordon Brown, and probably make it impossible for the Tories to form a coalition arrangement with the DUP (and the Liberal Democrats won’t touch them again even under Ed Davey’s leadership).
I think he has a reasonable chance at that.
He will need SNP support who will demand another referendum (if they haven't held another by then) but without Scotland an anti-Tory majority will be even harder to achieve.
As Starmer would take the UK back into the single market which was what the SNP wanted in the first place he could afford to offer them indyref2 with devomax and No would likely win it. The LDs would support him too over Boris and hard Brexit.
So Boris needs to win a majority again next time to stay PM, the DUP would not support him either as it would prefer EEA for the whole UK
Doesn't Sir Keir support a federal UK?
Basically but not fully as he does not support an English Parliament
When the general antibody test comes out - for those that have had a positive test already, we'll need to add 1 to the 'recovered' column but not to the active case column. For those who have had no test previously we'll need to add 1 to the active total but backdated and 1 to the recovered column
I was reading that they are anonymised, so it might not be possible to do that. Also I think the number of antigen tests will dwarf the number of antibody tests.
By 2024, Johnson's attempts at Churchillian soaring notes of keep going, this wonderful country will always triumph, this island of stalwart yeoman standing alone against the deadly foe, will sound as empty as a pulled xmas cracker.
Starmer is next PM is looking far more likely tonight.
It would make sense 14 years in. But it still won't be easy to achieve given that majority.
280 seats would require (excl. SNP/PC held seats) a UNS of c. 3.5%.
Not hard to see that happening.
However, that’s on existing boundaries, although they favour Labour rather less than they did. They will of course almost certainly be different come an election.
But it won’t be easy. They will have to work for it.
One thing I don’t grasp about PB is the apparent certainty many have that a fairly rapid vaccine and/or treatment is unlikely/impossible. This strikes me as “we are all doomed” stuff: from what I can read, the medical profession is fairly confident it can deliver a vaccine.
Where does PB’s negativity come from? Is it just the usual drama queenery?
Just watched a report on ITV Wales from Saltney on the English border and the border runs through an estate thereby creating different rules for opposite neighbours
Early signs of resentment from the Welsh residents that the English residents can enjoy the nearby park and they cannot
Also one of our neighbours runs a business based in England and he has started back at work today even though he has 30 miles to the English border then returns into Wales at the end of his day
Frankly I do not see the Welsh government being able to hold their advice more than a week or so
Nonsense. Police are sensible and will not get involved in the few grey areas like this. But they can police the blatant idiots who travel from Mersey side to Gwynedd or Birmigham to Ceredigion - no grey area - no debate. Fine them and send them home
Saw a police car pulling over someone in Penarth today. No obvious reason. Maybe an English number plate?
But big g is right. This is unenforceable. They will impose some token fines but it won’t last or be effective. The celts also need to be careful that they don’t annoy the English paymaster. After all it is the hardworking covid risking English taxpayer who is funding the furloughs in the Celtic fringes
It was that bugger SeanT. They were stopping him from stalking you.
Interesting point of view from a scientific director at the Crick Institute on the low usefulness of incurring the disease to get immunity and the high probability of a successful vaccine. The issue with the vaccine is not whether it's possible. He's pretty sure it is, The issue is the time it will take to get to an effective vaccination. Also talks about the UK's woeful response to the epidemic.
Good lord , just seen Sir Keirs response on the news. So stiff and dull. He will never be PM
I don’t think he could get an overall majority.
But the key target is 57 seats from the Conservatives. That would take him back past Gordon Brown, and probably make it impossible for the Tories to form a coalition arrangement with the DUP (and the Liberal Democrats won’t touch them again even under Ed Davey’s leadership).
I think he has a reasonable chance at that.
He will need SNP support who will demand another referendum (if they haven't held another by then) but without Scotland an anti-Tory majority will be even harder to achieve.
As Starmer would take the UK back into the single market which was what the SNP wanted in the first place he could afford to offer them indyref2 with devomax and No would likely win it. The LDs would support him too over Boris and hard Brexit.
So Boris needs to win a majority again next time to stay PM, the DUP would not support him either as it would prefer EEA for the whole UK
Doesn't Sir Keir support a federal UK?
Basically but not fully as he does not support an English Parliament
Good lord , just seen Sir Keirs response on the news. So stiff and dull. He will never be PM
What do you expect him to do? Do a few jokes and magical tricks....
I think within 12 months we'll desperate to see some competence running the country because for the lat 4 years we have really been governed by clowns...
The problem is that Starmer isn't competent enough to score in political open goals as opposition leader.
So not much likelihood of competency if he had to make the difficult decisions when the pressure was on.
Starmer will make a difference.
He is more competent and credible than any Labour leader since, well, Blair.
He's better than Brown (less of a jerk), better than Milliband (slightly less of a geek) and better than Corbyn (goes without saying).
Now, will he win a General Election? Probably not.
But I would expect that he will do no worse than Milliband.
Starmer is more competent than the current prime minister. That's not the issue. It's whether competence is important to voters. It wasn't in 2019.
I don't think the average voter believed Corbyn was more competent than Johnson.
I also maintain it was a less unpopular contest.
It always is to a degree, but with the percentage that Johnson go it wasn't just unpopularity that gets the opponent to that level.
Not sure. Do you think May was popular by the end? She got 43%.
I think she was popular enough. Her going backwards during the campaign and losing the majority, and the ridiculousness of what followed for 2 years makes that seem crazy, butI think it was so.
Just watched a report on ITV Wales from Saltney on the English border and the border runs through an estate thereby creating different rules for opposite neighbours
Early signs of resentment from the Welsh residents that the English residents can enjoy the nearby park and they cannot
Also one of our neighbours runs a business based in England and he has started back at work today even though he has 30 miles to the English border then returns into Wales at the end of his day
Frankly I do not see the Welsh government being able to hold their advice more than a week or so
Nonsense. Police are sensible and will not get involved in the few grey areas like this. But they can police the blatant idiots who travel from Mersey side to Gwynedd or Birmigham to Ceredigion - no grey area - no debate. Fine them and send them home
Saw a police car pulling over someone in Penarth today. No obvious reason. Maybe an English number plate?
But big g is right. This is unenforceable. They will impose some token fines but it won’t last or be effective. The celts also need to be careful that they don’t annoy the English paymaster. After all it is the hardworking covid risking English taxpayer who is funding the furloughs in the Celtic fringes
If our R doesn't rise in England then the other three nations will be under severe pressure to make the same moves.
One thing I don’t grasp about PB is the apparent certainty many have that a fairly rapid vaccine and/or treatment is unlikely/impossible. This strikes me as “we are all doomed” stuff: from what I can read, the medical profession is fairly confident it can deliver a vaccine.
Where does PB’s negativity come from? Is it just the usual drama queenery?
I'm guessing people that hang out on internet forums aren't typically on the bright and cheery end of the spectrum.
I wonder if you slightly misunderstand the furlough scheme.
The Coronavirus Job Retention scheme covers 80% the wages (to to IIRC £2500 per week) of furloughed staff, but is paid by government, to employers, who in the majority of cases will have already paid their staff at 80% or more.
However the duration of the furlough is set entirely by the employer.
I have two furloughed staff. If I wanted to, I think I could give them notice (I can't remember the terms off hand - 5 days?) that it ends, tonight. I won't be, because we've actually taken up their slack at the moment whilst other functions of the business are very quiet (no trade shows, etc).
So, it will be up to the employer.
If I was an employer who wanted to get my factory up and running and so advised all my staff that they were no longer furloughed, and had put in place the social distancing measures, and 95% of my employees said they would return, but 5% said they wouldn't, the 5% can't unilaterally decide to stay furloughed. And given the scheme ends (as is) at the end of June, and redundancies need 45 days notice, I know who I would be looking to make redundant....
However, say I decided I didn't need my the 3 receptionists back? I could keep them furloughed until the end of June.
That's my undersatanding too. The weak spot for employers is being confident what social distancing requires. Our office has 90 staff, about 60 of whom are in one big open-plan office. The number you could keep 2 metres apart is probably around a dozen, and even then we'd worry about joint entrance, toilets, etc.
As it's a classic office environment we can nearly all wfh indefinitely, and so far as I can see we'll have to. A colleague with a friend at Amazon US (the HQ not the dispatching department) saya they've just announced that they will wfj and not reopen the office till October at the earliest.
If there is one good thing to come out of this it will be the end of the open plan office. A bloody stupid idea that somehow caught on. Privacy and peace is absolutely key to do a good job, for most people.
One thing I don’t grasp about PB is the apparent certainty many have that a fairly rapid vaccine and/or treatment is unlikely/impossible. This strikes me as “we are all doomed” stuff: from what I can read, the medical profession is fairly confident it can deliver a vaccine.
Where does PB’s negativity come from? Is it just the usual drama queenery?
I think it`s more to do with preparing for a worst case scenario. I`d be much more comfortable with collapsing the economy and taking our freedoms if I knew that it was a temporary measure with a virus coming very soon to save us. But I don`t, so I`m not. If you follow me.
Just watched a report on ITV Wales from Saltney on the English border and the border runs through an estate thereby creating different rules for opposite neighbours
Early signs of resentment from the Welsh residents that the English residents can enjoy the nearby park and they cannot
Also one of our neighbours runs a business based in England and he has started back at work today even though he has 30 miles to the English border then returns into Wales at the end of his day
Frankly I do not see the Welsh government being able to hold their advice more than a week or so
Nonsense. Police are sensible and will not get involved in the few grey areas like this. But they can police the blatant idiots who travel from Mersey side to Gwynedd or Birmigham to Ceredigion - no grey area - no debate. Fine them and send them home
Saw a police car pulling over someone in Penarth today. No obvious reason. Maybe an English number plate?
But big g is right. This is unenforceable. They will impose some token fines but it won’t last or be effective. The celts also need to be careful that they don’t annoy the English paymaster. After all it is the hardworking covid risking English taxpayer who is funding the furloughs in the Celtic fringes
It was that bugger SeanT. They were stopping him from stalking you.
One thing I don’t grasp about PB is the apparent certainty many have that a fairly rapid vaccine and/or treatment is unlikely/impossible. This strikes me as “we are all doomed” stuff: from what I can read, the medical profession is fairly confident it can deliver a vaccine.
Where does PB’s negativity come from? Is it just the usual drama queenery?
I'm negative because Oxford University appear to be leading the charge for a vaccine, and that place is a dump we've yet to find a cure for the common cold.
One thing I don’t grasp about PB is the apparent certainty many have that a fairly rapid vaccine and/or treatment is unlikely/impossible. This strikes me as “we are all doomed” stuff: from what I can read, the medical profession is fairly confident it can deliver a vaccine.
Where does PB’s negativity come from? Is it just the usual drama queenery?
I'm negative because Oxford University appear to be leading the charge for a vaccine, and that place is a dump we've yet to find a cure for the common cold.
Isn't that a different class of virus? I thought boffins were relatively up-beat about the prospects for a vaccine.
One thing I don’t grasp about PB is the apparent certainty many have that a fairly rapid vaccine and/or treatment is unlikely/impossible. This strikes me as “we are all doomed” stuff: from what I can read, the medical profession is fairly confident it can deliver a vaccine.
Where does PB’s negativity come from? Is it just the usual drama queenery?
Murphy's Law.
I'm well aware of the comments published a few weeks ago and attributed to the leader of the Oxford vaccine group, to the effect that they thought their chances of getting to a vaccine were about 80% - and if they did then at least some doses would be available this year for health care workers and the very vulnerable.
It's just that this leaves the 20% margin of doubt. And when things sound too good to be true, they very often are.
Good lord , just seen Sir Keirs response on the news. So stiff and dull. He will never be PM
What do you expect him to do? Do a few jokes and magical tricks....
I think within 12 months we'll desperate to see some competence running the country because for the lat 4 years we have really been governed by clowns...
The problem is that Starmer isn't competent enough to score in political open goals as opposition leader.
So not much likelihood of competency if he had to make the difficult decisions when the pressure was on.
Starmer will make a difference.
He is more competent and credible than any Labour leader since, well, Blair.
He's better than Brown (less of a jerk), better than Milliband (slightly less of a geek) and better than Corbyn (goes without saying).
Now, will he win a General Election? Probably not.
But I would expect that he will do no worse than Milliband.
Starmer is more competent than the current prime minister. That's not the issue. It's whether competence is important to voters. It wasn't in 2019.
I don't think the average voter believed Corbyn was more competent than Johnson.
I also maintain it was a less unpopular contest.
If we had cared about competence in 2019 we would all have voted for Jo Swinson. She didn't have to be brilliant. She just had not to be a lying charlatan or a devious ideologue. She passed that low bar easily. We didn't vote for Swinson. I rest my case.
One thing I don’t grasp about PB is the apparent certainty many have that a fairly rapid vaccine and/or treatment is unlikely/impossible. This strikes me as “we are all doomed” stuff: from what I can read, the medical profession is fairly confident it can deliver a vaccine.
Where does PB’s negativity come from? Is it just the usual drama queenery?
I'm negative because Oxford University appear to be leading the charge for a vaccine, and that place is a dump we've yet to find a cure for the common cold.
Different kind of virus. I've been speaking to some of my old university friends and they're extremely upbeat about finding multiple treatment options but less so on a vaccine, that could just be because they are all in drug based pharma rather than vaccines.
I'm guessing the Porton Down data is showing horrendously... low infection rates.
So what is the true number of cases - I've asked repeatedly but no one seems to have a clear idea of the ratio of unreported cases to actual cases let alone allowing for the asymptomatic.
There are 223,000 recorded cases but if that is out by a factor of 10 that would mean 2,223,000 current or past cases which would still only be 3% of the population. That would bring the mortality rate down to 1.4% but the suggestion is it's nearer 0.5% which would require a factor of 30 so nearly 7 million people or 10% which may be the London figure in isolation but seems not to be the case countrywide.
One thing I don’t grasp about PB is the apparent certainty many have that a fairly rapid vaccine and/or treatment is unlikely/impossible. This strikes me as “we are all doomed” stuff: from what I can read, the medical profession is fairly confident it can deliver a vaccine.
Where does PB’s negativity come from? Is it just the usual drama queenery?
I'm negative because Oxford University appear to be leading the charge for a vaccine, and that place is a dump we've yet to find a cure for the common cold.
Isn't that a different class of virus? I thought boffins were relatively up-beat about the prospects for a vaccine.
I'm trying to find the link where I read we've never successfully developed a human vaccine for a coronavirus.
I'm guessing the Porton Down data is showing horrendously... low infection rates.
So what is the true number of cases - I've asked repeatedly but no one seems to have a clear idea of the ratio of unreported cases to actual cases let alone allowing for the asymptomatic.
There are 223,000 recorded cases but if that is out by a factor of 10 that would mean 2,223,000 current or past cases which would still only be 3% of the population. That would bring the mortality rate down to 1.4% but the suggestion is it's nearer 0.5% which would require a factor of 30 so nearly 7 million people or 10% which may be the London figure in isolation but seems not to be the case countrywide.
That 10% figure for London was 2 weeks ago, so it will be higher here now. I'd guess that London will have 30% immunity by the end of the first wave.
One thing I don’t grasp about PB is the apparent certainty many have that a fairly rapid vaccine and/or treatment is unlikely/impossible. This strikes me as “we are all doomed” stuff: from what I can read, the medical profession is fairly confident it can deliver a vaccine.
Where does PB’s negativity come from? Is it just the usual drama queenery?
I'm negative because Oxford University appear to be leading the charge for a vaccine, and that place is a dump we've yet to find a cure for the common cold.
Isn't that a different class of virus? I thought boffins were relatively up-beat about the prospects for a vaccine.
I'm trying to find the link where I read we've never successfully developed a human vaccine for a coronavirus.
The amount of money and effort spent trying to find a vaccine for this particular one must outweigh the others by orders of magnitude at this point. The fact there are numerous vaccine candidates undergoing trials already is promising.
One thing I don’t grasp about PB is the apparent certainty many have that a fairly rapid vaccine and/or treatment is unlikely/impossible. This strikes me as “we are all doomed” stuff: from what I can read, the medical profession is fairly confident it can deliver a vaccine.
Where does PB’s negativity come from? Is it just the usual drama queenery?
I'm negative because Oxford University appear to be leading the charge for a vaccine, and that place is a dump we've yet to find a cure for the common cold.
Isn't that a different class of virus? I thought boffins were relatively up-beat about the prospects for a vaccine.
I'm trying to find the link where I read we've never successfully developed a human vaccine for a coronavirus.
The amount of money and effort spent trying to find a vaccine for this particular one must outweigh the others by orders of magnitude at this point. The fact there are numerous vaccine candidates undergoing trials already is promising.
There’s been a vaccine for coronavirus in cats for years. I rather think if it was easy to transfer that to humans it would have happened by now.
The White House directed officials to wear masks at all times inside the building after two people in the West Wing tested positive for coronavirus, administration officials said.
One thing I don’t grasp about PB is the apparent certainty many have that a fairly rapid vaccine and/or treatment is unlikely/impossible. This strikes me as “we are all doomed” stuff: from what I can read, the medical profession is fairly confident it can deliver a vaccine.
Where does PB’s negativity come from? Is it just the usual drama queenery?
I'm negative because Oxford University appear to be leading the charge for a vaccine, and that place is a dump we've yet to find a cure for the common cold.
Isn't that a different class of virus? I thought boffins were relatively up-beat about the prospects for a vaccine.
I'm trying to find the link where I read we've never successfully developed a human vaccine for a coronavirus.
The amount of money and effort spent trying to find a vaccine for this particular one must outweigh the others by orders of magnitude at this point. The fact there are numerous vaccine candidates undergoing trials already is promising.
There’s been a vaccine for coronavirus in cats for years. I rather think if it was easy to transfer that to humans it would have happened by now.
Sorry to be downbeat.
Is it commonly easy to transfer vaccines between species?
The White House directed officials to wear masks at all times inside the building after two people in the West Wing tested positive for coronavirus, administration officials said.
The White House directed officials to wear masks at all times inside the building after two people in the West Wing tested positive for coronavirus, administration officials said.
One thing I don’t grasp about PB is the apparent certainty many have that a fairly rapid vaccine and/or treatment is unlikely/impossible. This strikes me as “we are all doomed” stuff: from what I can read, the medical profession is fairly confident it can deliver a vaccine.
Where does PB’s negativity come from? Is it just the usual drama queenery?
for instance (that's Chris Whitty). I have no medical expertise whatever, but if we look at some comparables: Ebola - disease identified 1976, vaccine 2019. HIV - identified early 80s, no vaccine yet (but it is a weird disease). SARS and MERS - no vaccine (but according to some, that's because the dieases fizzled out so there was no demand, no funding and no population in which to test a vaccine). Flu - vaccines made very widely available every year, but they don't work all that well: sometimes it's the wrong kind of snow, other times they work a bit in that they stop some people getting it and in other cases they reduce severity.
As against that, I doubt whether any other diusease has had 10% of the firepower aimed at it as covid is getting. So it's all to play for, but frank uncertainty is the best position to adopt.
One thing I don’t grasp about PB is the apparent certainty many have that a fairly rapid vaccine and/or treatment is unlikely/impossible. This strikes me as “we are all doomed” stuff: from what I can read, the medical profession is fairly confident it can deliver a vaccine.
Where does PB’s negativity come from? Is it just the usual drama queenery?
I'm negative because Oxford University appear to be leading the charge for a vaccine, and that place is a dump we've yet to find a cure for the common cold.
Isn't that a different class of virus? I thought boffins were relatively up-beat about the prospects for a vaccine.
I'm trying to find the link where I read we've never successfully developed a human vaccine for a coronavirus.
The amount of money and effort spent trying to find a vaccine for this particular one must outweigh the others by orders of magnitude at this point. The fact there are numerous vaccine candidates undergoing trials already is promising.
There’s been a vaccine for coronavirus in cats for years. I rather think if it was easy to transfer that to humans it would have happened by now.
Sorry to be downbeat.
Is it commonly easy to transfer vaccines between species?
One thing I don’t grasp about PB is the apparent certainty many have that a fairly rapid vaccine and/or treatment is unlikely/impossible. This strikes me as “we are all doomed” stuff: from what I can read, the medical profession is fairly confident it can deliver a vaccine.
Where does PB’s negativity come from? Is it just the usual drama queenery?
I'm negative because Oxford University appear to be leading the charge for a vaccine, and that place is a dump we've yet to find a cure for the common cold.
Isn't that a different class of virus? I thought boffins were relatively up-beat about the prospects for a vaccine.
I'm trying to find the link where I read we've never successfully developed a human vaccine for a coronavirus.
The amount of money and effort spent trying to find a vaccine for this particular one must outweigh the others by orders of magnitude at this point. The fact there are numerous vaccine candidates undergoing trials already is promising.
There’s been a vaccine for coronavirus in cats for years. I rather think if it was easy to transfer that to humans it would have happened by now.
Sorry to be downbeat.
Is it commonly easy to transfer vaccines between species?
You’d want to ask my father that, as I don’t know. It is however the logic of vivisection.
The White House directed officials to wear masks at all times inside the building after two people in the West Wing tested positive for coronavirus, administration officials said.
One thing I don’t grasp about PB is the apparent certainty many have that a fairly rapid vaccine and/or treatment is unlikely/impossible. This strikes me as “we are all doomed” stuff: from what I can read, the medical profession is fairly confident it can deliver a vaccine.
Where does PB’s negativity come from? Is it just the usual drama queenery?
I'm negative because Oxford University appear to be leading the charge for a vaccine, and that place is a dump we've yet to find a cure for the common cold.
Isn't that a different class of virus? I thought boffins were relatively up-beat about the prospects for a vaccine.
I'm trying to find the link where I read we've never successfully developed a human vaccine for a coronavirus.
The amount of money and effort spent trying to find a vaccine for this particular one must outweigh the others by orders of magnitude at this point. The fact there are numerous vaccine candidates undergoing trials already is promising.
There’s been a vaccine for coronavirus in cats for years. I rather think if it was easy to transfer that to humans it would have happened by now.
Sorry to be downbeat.
Is it commonly easy to transfer vaccines between species?
The White House directed officials to wear masks at all times inside the building after two people in the West Wing tested positive for coronavirus, administration officials said.
Good lord , just seen Sir Keirs response on the news. So stiff and dull. He will never be PM
What do you expect him to do? Do a few jokes and magical tricks....
I think within 12 months we'll desperate to see some competence running the country because for the lat 4 years we have really been governed by clowns...
The problem is that Starmer isn't competent enough to score in political open goals as opposition leader.
So not much likelihood of competency if he had to make the difficult decisions when the pressure was on.
Starmer will make a difference.
He is more competent and credible than any Labour leader since, well, Blair.
He's better than Brown (less of a jerk), better than Milliband (slightly less of a geek) and better than Corbyn (goes without saying).
Now, will he win a General Election? Probably not.
But I would expect that he will do no worse than Milliband.
Starmer certainly has positives but he also comes across, even if perhaps inaccurately, as both posher and more metropolitan than they did.
Still its early days and people can grow into their job.
The White House directed officials to wear masks at all times inside the building after two people in the West Wing tested positive for coronavirus, administration officials said.
Must be just a matter of time before Trumpola gets it.
Given the precedent Betfair set when Boris Johnson got Covid-19 I fear our carefully thought out betting strategies for the White House race are about to go up in smoke.
One thing I don’t grasp about PB is the apparent certainty many have that a fairly rapid vaccine and/or treatment is unlikely/impossible. This strikes me as “we are all doomed” stuff: from what I can read, the medical profession is fairly confident it can deliver a vaccine.
Where does PB’s negativity come from? Is it just the usual drama queenery?
I'm negative because Oxford University appear to be leading the charge for a vaccine, and that place is a dump we've yet to find a cure for the common cold.
Isn't that a different class of virus? I thought boffins were relatively up-beat about the prospects for a vaccine.
Quote from the article I linked above:
Vaccines that induce neutralising antibodies to the virus are strongly predicted to work: maybe not perfectly, and maybe not without complications, but I don’t know a single immunologist or virologist who thinks a vaccine is impossible.
One thing I don’t grasp about PB is the apparent certainty many have that a fairly rapid vaccine and/or treatment is unlikely/impossible. This strikes me as “we are all doomed” stuff: from what I can read, the medical profession is fairly confident it can deliver a vaccine.
Where does PB’s negativity come from? Is it just the usual drama queenery?
I think it`s more to do with preparing for a worst case scenario. I`d be much more comfortable with collapsing the economy and taking our freedoms if I knew that it was a temporary measure with a virus coming very soon to save us. But I don`t, so I`m not. If you follow me.
Sort of, but my hunch is that one or two PBers (almost all of whom are financially secure introverts) luxuriate in prophecies of doom.
One thing I don’t grasp about PB is the apparent certainty many have that a fairly rapid vaccine and/or treatment is unlikely/impossible. This strikes me as “we are all doomed” stuff: from what I can read, the medical profession is fairly confident it can deliver a vaccine.
Where does PB’s negativity come from? Is it just the usual drama queenery?
for instance (that's Chris Whitty). I have no medical expertise whatever, but if we look at some comparables: Ebola - disease identified 1976, vaccine 2019. HIV - identified early 80s, no vaccine yet (but it is a weird disease). SARS and MERS - no vaccine (but according to some, that's because the dieases fizzled out so there was no demand, no funding and no population in which to test a vaccine). Flu - vaccines made very widely available every year, but they don't work all that well: sometimes it's the wrong kind of snow, other times they work a bit in that they stop some people getting it and in other cases they reduce severity.
As against that, I doubt whether any other diusease has had 10% of the firepower aimed at it as covid is getting. So it's all to play for, but frank uncertainty is the best position to adopt.
Not an expert, but isn't the other point the time it takes to test a vaccine to ensure it's safe. Even if one were discovered tomorrow, it would still take several months to test to make sure it's not the new thalidomide. And it's not being discovered tomorrow.
So it's simply impossible for us to lock down for long enough to find a vaccine without nuking the economy. All we can do is build hospital capacity, improve treatment, and minimise deaths on the road to herd immunity.
One thing I don’t grasp about PB is the apparent certainty many have that a fairly rapid vaccine and/or treatment is unlikely/impossible. This strikes me as “we are all doomed” stuff: from what I can read, the medical profession is fairly confident it can deliver a vaccine.
Where does PB’s negativity come from? Is it just the usual drama queenery?
I'm negative because Oxford University appear to be leading the charge for a vaccine, and that place is a dump we've yet to find a cure for the common cold.
Isn't that a different class of virus? I thought boffins were relatively up-beat about the prospects for a vaccine.
Quote from the article I linked above:
Vaccines that induce neutralising antibodies to the virus are strongly predicted to work: maybe not perfectly, and maybe not without complications, but I don’t know a single immunologist or virologist who thinks a vaccine is impossible.
Counter quote from Sir Patrick Vallence
"On the vaccine, you can never guarantee that you're going to get a vaccine," the CSA warned. "It's a tough thing to do.
"I will say that there's been great progress made, though.
"There are a number of vaccine programmes around the world that are progressing. There are a number in the clinic now; so far so good.
"So, I think the chances are a bit higher than they were, in terms of getting a vaccine, but you never know until you've got one."
Quite simply, nobody knows. But you only have to look at cancer to see that intractable problems can be intractable in the face of all the funding in the world.
Comments
I just don't see why it bothers you so much, there are a number of peoples' posts that metaphorically leave me wanting to grab them warmly by the throat but I just ignore.
Are you sure it's not the content of the tweets that is what is really winding you up?
The incentive is if they don’t reopen soon they may never reopen
About 10 clubs will go to the wall if there's no games played by August, the next tranche of TV money is due to be paid in July/August, which the broadcasters will not pay if there's no matches, which is likely.
*Potentially £750 million if Sky and BT don't play ball.
The Coronavirus Job Retention scheme covers 80% the wages (to to IIRC £2500 per week) of furloughed staff, but is paid by government, to employers, who in the majority of cases will have already paid their staff at 80% or more.
However the duration of the furlough is set entirely by the employer.
I have two furloughed staff. If I wanted to, I think I could give them notice (I can't remember the terms off hand - 5 days?) that it ends, tonight. I won't be, because we've actually taken up their slack at the moment whilst other functions of the business are very quiet (no trade shows, etc).
So, it will be up to the employer.
If I was an employer who wanted to get my factory up and running and so advised all my staff that they were no longer furloughed, and had put in place the social distancing measures, and 95% of my employees said they would return, but 5% said they wouldn't, the 5% can't unilaterally decide to stay furloughed. And given the scheme ends (as is) at the end of June, and redundancies need 45 days notice, I know who I would be looking to make redundant....
However, say I decided I didn't need my the 3 receptionists back? I could keep them furloughed until the end of June.
Those figures I mentioned are just on TV rights for this season.
It's strange to be politically independent and non-aligned.
I've no interest in joining another party at this time and my vote at the next GE is up for grabs though in East Ham it doesn't make a lot of difference.
You can usefully ignore its entire output. Even more so those who retweet it.
London x2
Brexit
Tory leadership
Con Maj
Machine
TSE - Leader and Foreign Affairs
AlistairM - home Affairs
You - finance
Topping - defence and pandemic planning, starting with putting on crucial race meetings as a herd immunity strategy.
Me - Education and Awesome Punning
Policies - anyone caught putting pineapple on pizza to be sentenced to discussing psephology with Hyufd and Justin for a minimum of four hours.
I'm interested in reading the opinions of people who take time to post here. People who are generally thoughtful and measured and contribute to intelligent debate. Not dribbling morons who post blatantly partisan, point-scoring bollocks.
Constant links to tweets mean people respond more to those than to each other, and well-written, thoughtful posts get pushed further down the page without reply.
Your ideology, or your loyalty, or your hatred of lefties....it just probably blinds you....I dunno, because you are probably quite sensible....somewhere....well you were once....
I really did think Brexit was bad...just the whole thing was torture...and all brought on us by Tory politicking while the opposition went absent....
But now...what is the excuse that our Govt has been so inept? Costing thousands of lives and destroying the economy..
Even if the top two tiers in England can get going again behind closed doors in time to rescue the TV money, everyone below them has had it without a large cash injection from Government - many times what has already been spent to prop up Rugby League. They're too reliant on gate receipts to survive perhaps eighteen months or two years without spectators.
So Boris needs to win a majority again next time to stay PM, the DUP would not support him either as it would prefer EEA for the whole UK
*Depending on the time of day, obviously.
Any chance people with a coronavirus standard cold could be identified and just spread that round ?
Starmer is next PM is looking far more likely tonight.
And it may need to. If we could only limit the mortality rate, it would seem the logical thing to do, indeed.
https://twitter.com/DrCJ_Houldcroft/status/1259920802461425664
An employer which operates in one of the "not barred from opening" sectors (i.e. not pubs, gyms etc etc) can choose whether to open or not, and can choose whom to furlough or not. This was always the caase, so nothing has changed.
Impressive in Parliament.
Fairly good in his alternative Statement slot.
Gone up in my estimation.
As it's a classic office environment we can nearly all wfh indefinitely, and so far as I can see we'll have to. A colleague with a friend at Amazon US (the HQ not the dispatching department) saya they've just announced that they will wfj and not reopen the office till October at the earliest.
I also maintain it was a less unpopular contest.
The only thing to tell you if you've had CV 19 proper is if you've been tested and found to be positive......the rest is noise, and guesswork.....
That'd also tie in broadly with the PM's "half a million" deaths in the broadcast.
Not hard to see that happening.
However, that’s on existing boundaries, although they favour Labour rather less than they did. They will of course almost certainly be different come an election.
But it won’t be easy. They will have to work for it.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52589449
Where does PB’s negativity come from? Is it just the usual drama queenery?
But they had to break off and deal with Byronic.
https://www.lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v42/n09/rupert-beale/short-cuts
I'm well aware of the comments published a few weeks ago and attributed to the leader of the Oxford vaccine group, to the effect that they thought their chances of getting to a vaccine were about 80% - and if they did then at least some doses would be available this year for health care workers and the very vulnerable.
It's just that this leaves the 20% margin of doubt. And when things sound too good to be true, they very often are.
There are 223,000 recorded cases but if that is out by a factor of 10 that would mean 2,223,000 current or past cases which would still only be 3% of the population. That would bring the mortality rate down to 1.4% but the suggestion is it's nearer 0.5% which would require a factor of 30 so nearly 7 million people or 10% which may be the London figure in isolation but seems not to be the case countrywide.
I think @TimT or @Charles will know better.
The amount of money and effort spent trying to find a vaccine for this particular one must outweigh the others by orders of magnitude at this point. The fact there are numerous vaccine candidates undergoing trials already is promising.
Sorry to be downbeat.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/white-house-directs-officials-to-wear-masks-at-all-times-inside-white-house-source-11589224333
Now, to ensure world safety, they need to get Trump to wear a gag.
for instance (that's Chris Whitty). I have no medical expertise whatever, but if we look at some comparables: Ebola - disease identified 1976, vaccine 2019. HIV - identified early 80s, no vaccine yet (but it is a weird disease). SARS and MERS - no vaccine (but according to some, that's because the dieases fizzled out so there was no demand, no funding and no population in which to test a vaccine). Flu - vaccines made very widely available every year, but they don't work all that well: sometimes it's the wrong kind of snow, other times they work a bit in that they stop some people getting it and in other cases they reduce severity.
As against that, I doubt whether any other diusease has had 10% of the firepower aimed at it as covid is getting. So it's all to play for, but frank uncertainty is the best position to adopt.
Good night.
Still its early days and people can grow into their job.
Vaccines that induce neutralising antibodies to the virus are strongly predicted to work: maybe not perfectly, and maybe not without complications, but I don’t know a single immunologist or virologist who thinks a vaccine is impossible.
Just a hunch though.
So it's simply impossible for us to lock down for long enough to find a vaccine without nuking the economy. All we can do is build hospital capacity, improve treatment, and minimise deaths on the road to herd immunity.
"On the vaccine, you can never guarantee that you're going to get a vaccine," the CSA warned. "It's a tough thing to do.
"I will say that there's been great progress made, though.
"There are a number of vaccine programmes around the world that are progressing. There are a number in the clinic now; so far so good.
"So, I think the chances are a bit higher than they were, in terms of getting a vaccine, but you never know until you've got one."
https://www.express.co.uk/life-style/health/1280824/coronavirus-vaccine-covid-19-treatment-update-patrick-vallance
Quite simply, nobody knows. But you only have to look at cancer to see that intractable problems can be intractable in the face of all the funding in the world.