Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Holyrood 2021: The election that could kill the Union stone de

123468

Comments

  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,491

    malcolmg said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    The absolute inevitability of SNP most seats is what drives Tory tactics in focusing on indepdence. What is the point in spending a lot of time developing a better policy on education when there is no chance of being the government? What they are seeking to do is consolidate enough of the Unionist vote to prevent an SNP majority and thus, hopefully, prevent a second referendum (subject to the little green helpers, of course).

    Whilst I understand the logic of that it is a mistake. Scotland has not had an actual policy choice since 2007. In that 13 years we have had the truly disastrous Curriculum for Excellence imposed in our schools with the inevitable consequences in our PISA ranking, we have the insane position of still offering free University education to EU citizens at a time when funded places for Scots are being restricted, we have had the shambolic and ongoing embarrassment that is Police Scotland, we have had an ever more centralised and unaccountable concentration of power in the likes of the Care Commission, stripping local government of powers and budget, I really could go on and on. As someone actively interested in politics I genuinely don't know what the Tories or Labour are proposing in relation to these failures. It's not good enough. Scotland needs a proper choice.

    Which is part of why I back Scottish independence as the best thing for Scotland.

    It is only once the independence issue is over and done with that Scotland can get mature, grown up politics back.
    I am British. I would be stripped of my national identity if that were to happen. I will do all I can to stop it.
    Good man. I feel the same way.

    I am English but love Scotland - I lived there for six years as a child - and feel it's part of our UK.

    I would be so upset if it left. It's the emotional connections that mean so much to me.
    I feel the opposite, being owned and controlled by England is a disgrace.
    You are not. You are fully equal with me in every way.

    There's just fewer of you, that's all.
    Look, a few hundred million EU citizens are waving at you.
    Indeed. Using the logic that we were all the same meant we should have just stayed within the EU - we all had a vote.

    Except with the EU being a democracy the Eurozone could always outvote the UK.
    With the UK being a democracy England can always outvote Scotland.

    I'd rather give up Scotland than democracy.
    The difference is whether people share a common identity with each other.

    Umm.. that's it.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    edited May 2020
    Socky said:

    malcolmg said:

    I have no say in how my country is run, it is all decided in England for England's benefit as you would expect with circa 90% of the population.

    One answer is proper local democracy (and taxation) throughout the UK.

    I have always seen Brexit (and Scottish/Welsh devolution) as part of a longer process; taking power away from Westminster is next.

    That can only go so far when we share a currency, surely. England transfers to the others as it is.

    Will English taxpayers pay for policies that largely go against the government they voted for? German taxpayers don't. There's a stability pact and you toe the line, sunshine

    Maybe the UK should have its own sterling stability pact in return for ceding power.
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    Charles said:

    My friends overseas are amazed at the bog we're apparently making of it. Laughing stock is one description.
    Very few people I know are laughing about this.

    I think that was a turn of phrase rather than meant to be taken literally. The fact is that the UK is being pointed to around the world as a failure in its response to Covid-19.
    By who? A few leftwing papers like the New York Times that is about it.

    Most countries are concerned with their own situation and anyway the US has most deaths in total and Belgium most deaths per head, not the UK
    Not true but DYOR.

    Missing the point again completely - what is going to damage the government is if the narrative takes hold that we are the worst performing country in Europe and that the Cabinet, by extension, have been incompetent.

    If that view takes hold it won't matter a jot that Belgium has more deaths per head.
    So what matters is if a lie takes hold?
    The slogan on the bus worked pretty well for the Brexiteers.

    Anyway, we do have the most deaths in Europe, you can argue that that there are other measures but it is not a lie.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    Limit contact with other people.

    Does that mean visiting family once a week?
    This is what everyone wants to know.

    In the absence of knowing they may just do it anyway and the Government will then catch up.
    That may even be the intention. Just let the public calculate the risk for themselves and hope that, in broad-brush terms, the more vulnerable they feel the more likely they will be to self-segregate.

    Chuck in the continuation of the 2m rule and WFH and then see how things go. It feels rather like a halfway house between the more severe lockdown regimes like Italy, and the Swedish approach.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,491

    Limit contact with other people.

    Does that mean visiting family once a week?
    This is what everyone wants to know.

    In the absence of knowing they may just do it anyway and the Government will then catch up.
    That may even be the intention. Just let the public calculate the risk for themselves and hope that, in broad-brush terms, the more vulnerable they feel the more likely they will be to self-segregate.

    Chuck in the continuation of the 2m rule and WFH and then see how things go. It feels rather like a halfway house between the more severe lockdown regimes like Italy, and the Swedish approach.
    Yeah, maybe.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222
    edited May 2020

    Genuinely wonder if Johnson might get ousted before 2024

    Stop wondering. He won't.
    Plenty of reports around of cabinet discontentment.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,250
    DavidL said:

    I don’t think that they are cumulative. They are for the 7 day period only and comparing countries that have different levels of infection , different periods of lockdown, different intensity of lockdown and which are at different points on the curve. In short, a total waste of time.
    One interesting point is that the Tweeter is actually a medical consultant who has been on the media.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    My friends overseas are amazed at the bog we're apparently making of it. Laughing stock is one description.
    Interestingly, the government is still getting net positives on how it is handling the crisis when the question is asked without context.

    This result from Opinium, however, is consistent with this one:

    https://twitter.com/Samfr/status/1256892770024898560?s=19

    The government seems to be benefiting for now from patriotism. The public is clear-eyed about its failures. How this will resolve itself once the crisis is past is unclear.
    Quite amazing that Johnson beats Starmer by almost 30 points on who the public prefer to be in charge of handling a disease that so many have died from & that he caught, and almost killed him!

    Shows how pointless the polls are doesn't it?

  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006
    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    Charles said:

    My friends overseas are amazed at the bog we're apparently making of it. Laughing stock is one description.
    Very few people I know are laughing about this.

    I think that was a turn of phrase rather than meant to be taken literally. The fact is that the UK is being pointed to around the world as a failure in its response to Covid-19.
    By who? A few leftwing papers like the New York Times that is about it.

    Most countries are concerned with their own situation and anyway the US has most deaths in total and Belgium most deaths per head, not the UK
    Not true but DYOR.

    Missing the point again completely - what is going to damage the government is if the narrative takes hold that we are the worst performing country in Europe and that the Cabinet, by extension, have been incompetent.

    If that view takes hold it won't matter a jot that Belgium has more deaths per head.

    Except it is not, bar the Tories declining to 'just' 49%


    https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1259216403116298240?s=20

    https://twitter.com/MattSingh_/status/1259212991624622084?s=20
    The argument has barely begun yet so I would'n be quite so complacent if I were you.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Anonymously briefing their fury to the press? Their courage is breathtaking.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381

    Nicola Sturgeon is now divisively repeating the UK government’s slogan. She’s clearly obsessed with independence.

    https://twitter.com/nicolasturgeon/status/1259432190368190465?s=21

    Mind you, Boris has been quite helpfully digging the escape tunnel for her since Wednesday.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677

    Genuinely wonder if Johnson might get ousted before 2024

    His current draft provide very limited opportunities for well paid side gigs and adultery. Both of these restrictions must be to his immense displeasure so I could actually see him jacking in at some point. He wanted to become PM more than he wanted to be PM. Particularly during a pandemic which he's fucking up and a concomitant economic depression which he will also doubtlessly fuck up.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    malcolmg said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    The absolute inevitability of SNP most seats is what drives Tory tactics in focusing on indepdence. What is the point in spending a lot of time developing a better policy on education when there is no chance of being the government? What they are seeking to do is consolidate enough of the Unionist vote to prevent an SNP majority and thus, hopefully, prevent a second referendum (subject to the little green helpers, of course).

    Whilst I understand the logic of that it is a mistake. Scotland has not had an actual policy choice since 2007. In that 13 years we have had the truly disastrous Curriculum for Excellence imposed in our schools with the inevitable consequences in our PISA ranking, we have the insane position of still offering free University education to EU citizens at a time when funded places for Scots are being restricted, we have had the shambolic and ongoing embarrassment that is Police Scotland, we have had an ever more centralised and unaccountable concentration of power in the likes of the Care Commission, stripping local government of powers and budget, I really could go on and on. As someone actively interested in politics I genuinely don't know what the Tories or Labour are proposing in relation to these failures. It's not good enough. Scotland needs a proper choice.

    Which is part of why I back Scottish independence as the best thing for Scotland.

    It is only once the independence issue is over and done with that Scotland can get mature, grown up politics back.
    I am British. I would be stripped of my national identity if that were to happen. I will do all I can to stop it.
    .
    Good man. I feel the same way.

    I am English but love Scotland - I lived there for six years as a child - and feel it's part of our UK.

    I would be so upset if it left. It's the emotional connections that mean so much to me.
    I feel the opposite, being owned and controlled by England is a disgrace.
    You are not. You are fully equal with me in every way.

    There's just fewer of you, that's all.
    Look, a few hundred million EU citizens are waving at you.
    Indeed. Using the logic that we were all the same meant we should have just stayed within the EU - we all had a vote.

    Except with the EU being a democracy the Eurozone could always outvote the UK.
    With the UK being a democracy England can always outvote Scotland.

    I'd rather give up Scotland than democracy.
    The difference is whether people share a common identity with each other.

    Umm.. that's it.
    Indeed. And its quite clear that only some do.
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006

    Professor Spiegelhalter "Completely Fatuous Exercise" to Compare Who’s the Worst in Europe

    https://youtu.be/g1ElO6ybqv0

    Politically it's what people believe that matters. I also do not believe comparisons are completely fatuous, some countries have clearly handled this better than others.

  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    Stocky said:

    Genuinely wonder if Johnson might get ousted before 2024

    I`ve been wondering the same. I`m on Sunak and Hunt already.
    When summer turns to autumn and the horrendous economic conditions become apparent, I really wouldn't want to be Johnson
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,102
    OllyT said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    Charles said:

    My friends overseas are amazed at the bog we're apparently making of it. Laughing stock is one description.
    Very few people I know are laughing about this.

    I think that was a turn of phrase rather than meant to be taken literally. The fact is that the UK is being pointed to around the world as a failure in its response to Covid-19.
    By who? A few leftwing papers like the New York Times that is about it.

    Most countries are concerned with their own situation and anyway the US has most deaths in total and Belgium most deaths per head, not the UK
    Not true but DYOR.

    Missing the point again completely - what is going to damage the government is if the narrative takes hold that we are the worst performing country in Europe and that the Cabinet, by extension, have been incompetent.

    If that view takes hold it won't matter a jot that Belgium has more deaths per head.
    So what matters is if a lie takes hold?
    The slogan on the bus worked pretty well for the Brexiteers.

    Anyway, we do have the most deaths in Europe, you can argue that that there are other measures but it is not a lie.
    Reports that Italy are under reported deaths by 50%

    It is no means certain who has the highest european death toll and we are not even half way through this
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381
    isam said:

    My friends overseas are amazed at the bog we're apparently making of it. Laughing stock is one description.
    Interestingly, the government is still getting net positives on how it is handling the crisis when the question is asked without context.

    This result from Opinium, however, is consistent with this one:

    https://twitter.com/Samfr/status/1256892770024898560?s=19

    The government seems to be benefiting for now from patriotism. The public is clear-eyed about its failures. How this will resolve itself once the crisis is past is unclear.
    Quite amazing that Johnson beats Starmer by almost 30 points on who the public prefer to be in charge of handling a disease that so many have died from & that he caught, and almost killed him!

    Shows how pointless the polls are doesn't it?

    Yes, after the event the gap could increase or narrow. On present evidence I am betting on the latter.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Stocky said:

    Genuinely wonder if Johnson might get ousted before 2024

    I`ve been wondering the same. I`m on Sunak and Hunt already.
    When summer turns to autumn and the horrendous economic conditions become apparent, I really wouldn't want to be Johnson
    What matters is the economic conditions next year and the year after more. One way or another we'll have herd immunity by then.
  • nunu2nunu2 Posts: 1,453
    The new slogan from Boris is shite
  • Dura_Ace said:

    Genuinely wonder if Johnson might get ousted before 2024

    His current draft provide very limited opportunities for well paid side gigs and adultery. Both of these restrictions must be to his immense displeasure so I could actually see him jacking in at some point. He wanted to become PM more than he wanted to be PM. Particularly during a pandemic which he's fucking up and a concomitant economic depression which he will also doubtlessly fuck up.
    A fallout with Sunak on economics is a possibility. Sunak is presumably going to go heavy on austerity 2.0 which Johnson apparently despises.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,464

    Limit contact with other people.

    Does that mean visiting family once a week?
    No tongues I think.
    Anywhere?
    Memories, memories!
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,766

    Stocky said:

    Genuinely wonder if Johnson might get ousted before 2024

    I`ve been wondering the same. I`m on Sunak and Hunt already.
    When summer turns to autumn and the horrendous economic conditions become apparent, I really wouldn't want to be Johnson
    I predict that Sunak resigns over no-deal brexit.
  • mattmatt Posts: 3,789

    Stocky said:

    Genuinely wonder if Johnson might get ousted before 2024

    I`ve been wondering the same. I`m on Sunak and Hunt already.
    When summer turns to autumn and the horrendous economic conditions become apparent, I really wouldn't want to be Johnson
    There is a vast bloc of the electorate, state workers, pensioners, who appear to feel immune to wider economic conditions. Adding a disruptive final leaving of the EU arrangements would be suboptimal for many but again there is a bedrock of the electorate who think they will suffer no adverse consequences.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,139
    Alistair said:

    HYUFD said:

    Disagree with this thread header.

    First Nationalists already have a majority at Holyrood

    You've said multiple times that the Greens don't count and their isn't a nationalist majority.

    Brazen.
    No I haven't
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    isam said:

    My friends overseas are amazed at the bog we're apparently making of it. Laughing stock is one description.
    Interestingly, the government is still getting net positives on how it is handling the crisis when the question is asked without context.

    This result from Opinium, however, is consistent with this one:

    https://twitter.com/Samfr/status/1256892770024898560?s=19

    The government seems to be benefiting for now from patriotism. The public is clear-eyed about its failures. How this will resolve itself once the crisis is past is unclear.
    Quite amazing that Johnson beats Starmer by almost 30 points on who the public prefer to be in charge of handling a disease that so many have died from & that he caught, and almost killed him!

    Shows how pointless the polls are doesn't it?

    Not pointless. The polls are telling us something. It's just not clear what.
  • The Government seems to think we'll just bounce back, I think that's moronic personally.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,139
    ClippP said:

    HYUFD said:

    ClippP said:

    HYUFD said:

    Just 12% want the lockdown ended now or next week but just 24% want the lockdown to continue beyond July too.
    648% want the lockdown ended by the end of the month, 68% want the lockdown ended by the end of June
    https://twitter.com/DavidWooding/status/1259406036202655745?s=20

    Interesting figures, HY. So what is government policy now?
    To have largely ended lockdown by the end of June bar mass gatherings, festivals and big sporting events but with testing and tracing greatly expanded by then
    Has that come in an official statement yet? Or is it just your best guess, HY? Or do you have inside information?
    That is based on what I have and based on what polling shows the public would support
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,766

    Anonymously briefing their fury to the press? Their courage is breathtaking.
    What do you expect from this shower of 'Z' listers?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    The Government seems to think we'll just bounce back, I think that's moronic personally.

    The BoE's projection of a mighty crash this year followed by a major recovery next year is entirely plausible.
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,264
    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    Charles said:

    My friends overseas are amazed at the bog we're apparently making of it. Laughing stock is one description.
    Very few people I know are laughing about this.

    I think that was a turn of phrase rather than meant to be taken literally. The fact is that the UK is being pointed to around the world as a failure in its response to Covid-19.
    By who? A few leftwing papers like the New York Times that is about it.

    Most countries are concerned with their own situation and anyway the US has most deaths in total and Belgium most deaths per head, not the UK
    Not true but DYOR.

    Missing the point again completely - what is going to damage the government is if the narrative takes hold that we are the worst performing country in Europe and that the Cabinet, by extension, have been incompetent.

    If that view takes hold it won't matter a jot that Belgium has more deaths per head.

    Except it is not, bar the Tories declining to 'just' 49%


    https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1259216403116298240?s=20

    https://twitter.com/MattSingh_/status/1259212991624622084?s=20
    The argument has barely begun yet so I would'n be quite so complacent if I were you.
    Hasn't the argument been raging 24/7 in every conceivable medium for the past two months? What sort of "argument" do you want?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935

    The Government seems to think we'll just bounce back, I think that's moronic personally.

    Moronic?
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,653
    When you have to explain a slogan it's not a very good slogan.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,491

    malcolmg said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    The absolute inevitability of SNP most seats is what drives Tory tactics in focusing on indepdence. What is the point in spending a lot of time developing a better policy on education when there is no chance of being the government? What they are seeking to do is consolidate enough of the Unionist vote to prevent an SNP majority and thus, hopefully, prevent a second referendum (subject to the little green helpers, of course).

    Whilst I understand the logic of that it is a mistake. Scotland has not had an actual policy choice since 2007. In that 13 years we have had the truly disastrous Curriculum for Excellence imposed in our schools with the inevitable consequences in our PISA ranking, we have the insane position of still offering free University education to EU citizens at a time when funded places for Scots are being restricted, we have had the shambolic and ongoing embarrassment that is Police Scotland, we have had an ever more centralised and unaccountable concentration of power in the likes of the Care Commission, stripping local government of powers and budget, I really could go on and on. As someone actively interested in politics I genuinely don't know what the Tories or Labour are proposing in relation to these failures. It's not good enough. Scotland needs a proper choice.

    Which is part of why I back Scottish independence as the best thing for Scotland.

    It is only once the independence issue is over and done with that Scotland can get mature, grown up politics back.
    I am British. I would be stripped of my national identity if that were to happen. I will do all I can to stop it.
    .
    Good man. I feel the same way.

    I am English but love Scotland - I lived there for six years as a child - and feel it's part of our UK.

    I would be so upset if it left. It's the emotional connections that mean so much to me.
    I feel the opposite, being owned and controlled by England is a disgrace.
    You are not. You are fully equal with me in every way.

    There's just fewer of you, that's all.
    Look, a few hundred million EU citizens are waving at you.
    Indeed. Using the logic that we were all the same meant we should have just stayed within the EU - we all had a vote.

    Except with the EU being a democracy the Eurozone could always outvote the UK.
    With the UK being a democracy England can always outvote Scotland.

    I'd rather give up Scotland than democracy.
    The difference is whether people share a common identity with each other.

    Umm.. that's it.
    Indeed. And its quite clear that only some do.
    Fair point. I find that upsetting one way, and others do the other.

    It's an emotional thing, as we know.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,139
    edited May 2020

    Genuinely wonder if Johnson might get ousted before 2024

    Boris is the best Tory election winner since Thatcher, they would be as mad to get rid of him as Labour were to replace Blair with Brown in 2007.

    Labour have not won a general election since and the Tories won only one majority in 25 years after they ousted Thatcher (and Major was Thatcher's preferred pick to replace her over Heseltine)
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006

    OllyT said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    Charles said:

    My friends overseas are amazed at the bog we're apparently making of it. Laughing stock is one description.
    Very few people I know are laughing about this.

    I think that was a turn of phrase rather than meant to be taken literally. The fact is that the UK is being pointed to around the world as a failure in its response to Covid-19.
    By who? A few leftwing papers like the New York Times that is about it.

    Most countries are concerned with their own situation and anyway the US has most deaths in total and Belgium most deaths per head, not the UK
    Not true but DYOR.

    Missing the point again completely - what is going to damage the government is if the narrative takes hold that we are the worst performing country in Europe and that the Cabinet, by extension, have been incompetent.

    If that view takes hold it won't matter a jot that Belgium has more deaths per head.
    So what matters is if a lie takes hold?
    The slogan on the bus worked pretty well for the Brexiteers.

    Anyway, we do have the most deaths in Europe, you can argue that that there are other measures but it is not a lie.
    Reports that Italy are under reported deaths by 50%

    It is no means certain who has the highest european death toll and we are not even half way through this
    It has been widely reported this week that we have the highest number of deaths in Europe but of course that could change but I think it unlikely as our numbers are pretty much the highest in Europe every day now.

    Thing is when you have start arguing that other countries are lying about their stats then you are on the back foot.

  • The Government seems to think we'll just bounce back, I think that's moronic personally.

    The BoE's projection of a mighty crash this year followed by a major recovery next year is entirely plausible.
    It's also entirely plausible we'll end up in a prolonged depression. I hope for all our sakes, you're right and I'm wrong.
  • SockySocky Posts: 404
    edited May 2020

    That [local taxes] can only go so far when we share a currency, surely. England transfers to the others as it is.

    As an idea, perhaps each level of government should only be able to tax the one below? The national UK government could raise the funds it needs for national tasks (e.g. the military) and for re-distribution by taxing the local government.

    Will English taxpayers pay for policies that largely go against the government they voted for?

    In the end, voters should get the policies they are prepared to pay for.

  • When you have to explain a slogan it's not a very good slogan.

    I don't think you need to explain it to anyone who isn't being deliberately obtuse.
    Not surprising Tories like it and non-Tories hate it.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,653

    When you have to explain a slogan it's not a very good slogan.

    I don't think you need to explain it to anyone who isn't being deliberately obtuse.

    The government clearly doesn't agree.

  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,241
    Presumably the reason for the new slogan is to have something, anything to justify tonight's Big Speech.

    We all (including Boris) would have been better off if he hadn't planned to do it at all, wouldn't we?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    The Government seems to think we'll just bounce back, I think that's moronic personally.

    The BoE's projection of a mighty crash this year followed by a major recovery next year is entirely plausible.
    It's also entirely plausible we'll end up in a prolonged depression. I hope for all our sakes, you're right and I'm wrong.
    I hope for all our sakes they're right - I'm not making any predictions.

    Both scenarios are plausible.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,999
    nunu2 said:

    The new slogan from Boris is shite

    I think BJ and his merry men (& women) could learn a lesson in brevity and direct, understandable messaging from you.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,653
    HYUFD said:

    Genuinely wonder if Johnson might get ousted before 2024

    Boris is the best Tory election winner since Thatcher, they would be as mad to get rid of him as Labour were to replace Blair with Brown in 2007.

    Labour have not won a general election since and the Tories won only one majority in 25 years after they ousted Thatcher (and Major was Thatcher's preferred pick to replace her over Heseltine)

    Yep, I agree with this. The Tories are very dependent on Johnson. If they getr rid of him, or he walks, it will change everything very quickly. I doubt they are that stupid, for now anyway, though it is clear that both Sajid and Hunt are on manouevres to establish themselves as the "told you so" candidiates.

  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    When you have to explain a slogan it's not a very good slogan.

    I don't think you need to explain it to anyone who isn't being deliberately obtuse.
    Not surprising Tories like it and non-Tories hate it.
    What matters is what people who aren't partisan think.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,652
    Sturgeon has been the effective UK LotO since Corbyn got in to Labour, and certainly since the referendum.
  • When you have to explain a slogan it's not a very good slogan.

    I don't think you need to explain it to anyone who isn't being deliberately obtuse.
    Not surprising Tories like it and non-Tories hate it.
    What matters is what people who aren't partisan think.
    Yes - and what do they think?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    When you have to explain a slogan it's not a very good slogan.

    I don't think you need to explain it to anyone who isn't being deliberately obtuse.
    Not surprising Tories like it and non-Tories hate it.
    What matters is what people who aren't partisan think.
    Yes - and what do they think?
    I don't know. But the phrase is self-explanatory to me.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,676
    My father and pretty much all of his colleagues think the new slogan is a bag of shite and will undo all the hard work so far.

    I think a few hospitals and health professionals will go rogue and will stick with the stay at home messaging.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    Stocky said:

    Genuinely wonder if Johnson might get ousted before 2024

    I`ve been wondering the same. I`m on Sunak and Hunt already.
    When summer turns to autumn and the horrendous economic conditions become apparent, I really wouldn't want to be Johnson
    I predict that Sunak resigns over no-deal brexit.
    I'm not sure Johnson or Sunak will get that far.

    What Johnson has stopped, he will find inordinately difficult to start again.

    Watch the howls when Sunak cuts subsidies from 80 to 60. Never mind zero. The libs already want more extensions. Bet labour follows. The government is throwing money around like confetti, after all, what's a few more billion?

    Unions are already using COVID as a bargaining tool. How can the government not agree to their terms given the propaganda message they have been churning out over the last few weeks that COVID is the plague?

    The distancing rules the government will have to impose as a logical extension of the their policy will work massively against an economic recovery. Look at how the airline industry is taking the new quarantine proposals.

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,225

    When you have to explain a slogan it's not a very good slogan.

    I don't think you need to explain it to anyone who isn't being deliberately obtuse.
    Not surprising Tories like it and non-Tories hate it.
    What matters is what people who aren't partisan think.
    Yes - and what do they think?
    I don't know. But the phrase is self-explanatory to me.
    A slogan targeted solely at you is perhaps not the most effective of slogans...
  • When you have to explain a slogan it's not a very good slogan.

    I don't think you need to explain it to anyone who isn't being deliberately obtuse.
    Not surprising Tories like it and non-Tories hate it.
    What matters is what people who aren't partisan think.
    Yes - and what do they think?
    I don't know. But the phrase is self-explanatory to me.
    You're just as partisan as me.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,676
    The Fast Show fans will remember Unlucky Alf.

    https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/1259452616192425984
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,225
    Skid marks; burn marks....
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,652
    Stay alert literally means look out for the virus. But Trump already pointed out that not only is it hidden, but it's very smart. I think Trump has the best of it here.
  • EPG said:

    Stay alert literally means look out for the virus. But Trump already pointed out that not only is it hidden, but it's very smart. I think Trump has the best of it here.

    The problem with "stay alert" is it means different things to different people.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    When you have to explain a slogan it's not a very good slogan.

    To be fair, replacing an instruction for the nation to sit on its fat arse all the time with a gentle encouragement to sit on its fat arse only about three-quarters of the time (and please get out a bit more, because we'll probably ask you to only sit on your fat arses half the time next month,) was always going to be something of a challenge.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    When you have to explain a slogan it's not a very good slogan.

    I don't think you need to explain it to anyone who isn't being deliberately obtuse.
    Not surprising Tories like it and non-Tories hate it.
    What matters is what people who aren't partisan think.
    Yes - and what do they think?
    I don't know. But the phrase is self-explanatory to me.
    You're just as partisan as me.
    I recognised that when I said I don't know. .
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,999
    Nigelb said:

    Skid marks; burn marks....
    No marks..
  • When you have to explain a slogan it's not a very good slogan.

    I don't think you need to explain it to anyone who isn't being deliberately obtuse.
    Not surprising Tories like it and non-Tories hate it.
    What matters is what people who aren't partisan think.
    Yes - and what do they think?
    I don't know. But the phrase is self-explanatory to me.
    You're just as partisan as me.
    I recognised that when I said I don't know. .
    Good to hear. Well done you.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,149

    When you have to explain a slogan it's not a very good slogan.

    I don't think you need to explain it to anyone who isn't being deliberately obtuse.
    Not surprising Tories like it and non-Tories hate it.
    What matters is what people who aren't partisan think.
    Do we have a list of those people to hand?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,225
    “Stay alert by limiting contact with people...”

    Eh ?

    One might stay alert in order to limit contact with people - but one stays alert by ... drinking coffee, for example.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935
    Nigelb said:

    “Stay alert by limiting contact with people...”

    Eh ?

    One might stay alert in order to limit contact with people - but one stays alert by ... drinking coffee, for example.
    Stay alert by minimising your risk.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,837
    edited May 2020
    The only one of those were alert makes any sense whatsoever is keeping 2m away from each other when out.

    How is staying at home related to being alert in any way?

    Stay safe was a much better choice to soften it from stay home.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited May 2020
    Nigelb said:

    When you have to explain a slogan it's not a very good slogan.

    I don't think you need to explain it to anyone who isn't being deliberately obtuse.
    Not surprising Tories like it and non-Tories hate it.
    What matters is what people who aren't partisan think.
    Yes - and what do they think?
    I don't know. But the phrase is self-explanatory to me.
    A slogan targeted solely at you is perhaps not the most effective of slogans...
    I don't think its targeted at me, just because I'm clever enough to understand what a very basic two word phrase means. I mean I am homeschooling a 3 year old and 6 year old so maybe I'm better than others at comprehending what two whole words mean . . .
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,620
    edited May 2020

    My father and pretty much all of his colleagues think the new slogan is a bag of shite and will undo all the hard work so far.

    I think a few hospitals and health professionals will go rogue and will stick with the stay at home messaging.

    Has does 'stay at home' help those of us who have to go to work ?
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,652
    This alert business is maybe the consequence of having emergency and crisis management disciplines focussed on counter-terrorism for the last two decades. The whole point is that you can't act as if you can see the one bad guy and avoid him. You have to assume everyone has it and take the appropriate level of risk - which may well be much more tolerant of risk than a lockdown.
  • DeClareDeClare Posts: 483
    OllyT said:

    OllyT said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    Charles said:

    My friends overseas are amazed at the bog we're apparently making of it. Laughing stock is one description.
    Very few people I know are laughing about this.

    I think that was a turn of phrase rather than meant to be taken literally. The fact is that the UK is being pointed to around the world as a failure in its response to Covid-19.
    By who? A few leftwing papers like the New York Times that is about it.

    Most countries are concerned with their own situation and anyway the US has most deaths in total and Belgium most deaths per head, not the UK
    Not true but DYOR.

    Missing the point again completely - what is going to damage the government is if the narrative takes hold that we are the worst performing country in Europe and that the Cabinet, by extension, have been incompetent.

    If that view takes hold it won't matter a jot that Belgium has more deaths per head.
    So what matters is if a lie takes hold?
    The slogan on the bus worked pretty well for the Brexiteers.

    Anyway, we do have the most deaths in Europe, you can argue that that there are other measures but it is not a lie.
    Reports that Italy are under reported deaths by 50%

    It is no means certain who has the highest european death toll and we are not even half way through this
    It has been widely reported this week that we have the highest number of deaths in Europe but of course that could change but I think it unlikely as our numbers are pretty much the highest in Europe every day now.

    Thing is when you have start arguing that other countries are lying about their stats then you are on the back foot.

    I think I read that France and now the UK are the only countries that count deaths outside of hospitals such as in care homes.

    Also to compare properly you have to look at deaths per million of population, ignoring microstates such as Andorra or Liechtenstein. Using this comparison Belgium, at present has the highest death rate in Europe.

    But another thing you should do is wait until the epidemic subsides, because we may eventually be overtaken by countries where the death rate is increasing or being maintained whilst ours is slowing down.

    When it's all over, statisticians might well find that there were several first world counties that had a worse epidemic than we did.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    If I was labour now I would be taking up the cause of furloughed workers and campaigning to keep them as as furloughed as possible for as long as possible.

    Taxpayers will be up in arms of course, but the plain fact is there aren't that many of them left.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,149

    When you have to explain a slogan it's not a very good slogan.

    To an extent. Though it is required to convey a more complex message which has more potential interpretations thatn the initial one. Not everything can be easily covered by 2-3 words. What's important is that the explanation be clear so that every public body can work together to dispel any potential for confusion.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,837
    HYUFD said:

    Genuinely wonder if Johnson might get ousted before 2024

    Boris is the best Tory election winner since Thatcher, they would be as mad to get rid of him as Labour were to replace Blair with Brown in 2007.

    Labour have not won a general election since and the Tories won only one majority in 25 years after they ousted Thatcher (and Major was Thatcher's preferred pick to replace her over Heseltine)
    Well the evidence of the last 5 years shows the Tory party is completely mad.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,149
    DeClare said:

    OllyT said:

    OllyT said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    Charles said:

    My friends overseas are amazed at the bog we're apparently making of it. Laughing stock is one description.
    Very few people I know are laughing about this.

    I think that was a turn of phrase rather than meant to be taken literally. The fact is that the UK is being pointed to around the world as a failure in its response to Covid-19.
    By who? A few leftwing papers like the New York Times that is about it.

    Most countries are concerned with their own situation and anyway the US has most deaths in total and Belgium most deaths per head, not the UK
    Not true but DYOR.

    Missing the point again completely - what is going to damage the government is if the narrative takes hold that we are the worst performing country in Europe and that the Cabinet, by extension, have been incompetent.

    If that view takes hold it won't matter a jot that Belgium has more deaths per head.
    So what matters is if a lie takes hold?
    The slogan on the bus worked pretty well for the Brexiteers.

    Anyway, we do have the most deaths in Europe, you can argue that that there are other measures but it is not a lie.
    Reports that Italy are under reported deaths by 50%

    It is no means certain who has the highest european death toll and we are not even half way through this
    It has been widely reported this week that we have the highest number of deaths in Europe but of course that could change but I think it unlikely as our numbers are pretty much the highest in Europe every day now.

    Thing is when you have start arguing that other countries are lying about their stats then you are on the back foot.

    When it's all over, statisticians might well find that there were several first world counties that had a worse epidemic than we did.
    Perhaps. It seems like it will be close at best.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,225

    isam said:

    My friends overseas are amazed at the bog we're apparently making of it. Laughing stock is one description.
    Interestingly, the government is still getting net positives on how it is handling the crisis when the question is asked without context.

    This result from Opinium, however, is consistent with this one:

    https://twitter.com/Samfr/status/1256892770024898560?s=19

    The government seems to be benefiting for now from patriotism. The public is clear-eyed about its failures. How this will resolve itself once the crisis is past is unclear.
    Quite amazing that Johnson beats Starmer by almost 30 points on who the public prefer to be in charge of handling a disease that so many have died from & that he caught, and almost killed him!

    Shows how pointless the polls are doesn't it?

    Not pointless. The polls are telling us something. It's just not clear what.
    That the government has (for whatever reasons) a large reservoir of goodwill, and that, for now, no one really wants to contemplate the next election ?

    It tells us very little about how politics might look in a year’s time, let alone four.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    The only one of those were alert makes any sense whatsoever is keeping 2m away from each other when out.

    How is staying at home related to being alert in any way?

    Stay safe was a much better choice to soften it from stay home.
    Because of the reason you're staying at home.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,708
    Nigelb said:

    “Stay alert by limiting contact with people...”

    Eh ?

    One might stay alert in order to limit contact with people - but one stays alert by ... drinking coffee, for example.
    Michael Gove can advise on other techniques for staying alert.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,652
    Short list of countries where the virus is a left/right issue: UK, USA, Brazil, Spain. The left wants free money forever, the right wants workers to take a risk. Anyone who can add to this list is welcome, especially examples where it goes in the opposite direction!
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,729

    HYUFD said:

    Genuinely wonder if Johnson might get ousted before 2024

    Boris is the best Tory election winner since Thatcher, they would be as mad to get rid of him as Labour were to replace Blair with Brown in 2007.

    Labour have not won a general election since and the Tories won only one majority in 25 years after they ousted Thatcher (and Major was Thatcher's preferred pick to replace her over Heseltine)
    Well the evidence of the last 5 years shows the Tory party is completely mad.
    Easy to say such things. But you were not there having to.make any eecisions. The zTories have seen.the nadt Labour Party since 2010... something to be very pleased about.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,837

    The only one of those were alert makes any sense whatsoever is keeping 2m away from each other when out.

    How is staying at home related to being alert in any way?

    Stay safe was a much better choice to soften it from stay home.
    Because of the reason you're staying at home.
    Im not being alert, I may be dozy or even asleep I just havent gone through the front door!

    Stay safe is clearly better suited to all five statements in the tweet, what on earth was wrong with that?
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Iii

    isam said:

    My friends overseas are amazed at the bog we're apparently making of it. Laughing stock is one description.
    Interestingly, the government is still getting net positives on how it is handling the crisis when the question is asked without context.

    This result from Opinium, however, is consistent with this one:

    https://twitter.com/Samfr/status/1256892770024898560?s=19

    The government seems to be benefiting for now from patriotism. The public is clear-eyed about its failures. How this will resolve itself once the crisis is past is unclear.
    Quite amazing that Johnson beats Starmer by almost 30 points on who the public prefer to be in charge of handling a disease that so many have died from & that he caught, and almost killed him!

    Shows how pointless the polls are doesn't it?

    Not pointless. The polls are telling us something. It's just not clear what.
    My guess would be that people nowadays might prefer a politician to be a celebrity as well as run the country.

    Blair, Cameron, Farage, Jezza and Boris all have that. Brown, May, Farron, Ed and Starmer don't
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    Nigelb said:

    When you have to explain a slogan it's not a very good slogan.

    I don't think you need to explain it to anyone who isn't being deliberately obtuse.
    Not surprising Tories like it and non-Tories hate it.
    What matters is what people who aren't partisan think.
    Yes - and what do they think?
    I don't know. But the phrase is self-explanatory to me.
    A slogan targeted solely at you is perhaps not the most effective of slogans...
    The demographic that, like PT, would march into a burning building to save a photograph of Johnson must be quite small.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,620
    Nigelb said:

    isam said:

    My friends overseas are amazed at the bog we're apparently making of it. Laughing stock is one description.
    Interestingly, the government is still getting net positives on how it is handling the crisis when the question is asked without context.

    This result from Opinium, however, is consistent with this one:

    https://twitter.com/Samfr/status/1256892770024898560?s=19

    The government seems to be benefiting for now from patriotism. The public is clear-eyed about its failures. How this will resolve itself once the crisis is past is unclear.
    Quite amazing that Johnson beats Starmer by almost 30 points on who the public prefer to be in charge of handling a disease that so many have died from & that he caught, and almost killed him!

    Shows how pointless the polls are doesn't it?

    Not pointless. The polls are telling us something. It's just not clear what.
    That the government has (for whatever reasons) a large reservoir of goodwill, and that, for now, no one really wants to contemplate the next election ?

    It tells us very little about how politics might look in a year’s time, let alone four.
    Its based on people who think that Boris / Conservatives / this government is 'on their side'.

    They may not think they are any good but at least they are not actively malign.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,149
    EPG said:

    Short list of countries where the virus is a left/right issue: UK, USA, Brazil, Spain. The left wants free money forever, the right wants workers to take a risk. Anyone who can add to this list is welcome, especially examples where it goes in the opposite direction!

    I think the list is problematic as to the extent it is a left/right issue may differ, in terms of mainstream left/right.
  • This a far better slogan. Cuts across young and old and even Warzone kids will appreciate it.


  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    Shit slogan that's going to cause confusion and an increase in the infection rate. You can't stay alert to something you can't see. It's as simple as that.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,317

    Anyway, as Boris will effectively allow us all out to go and explore our local nature reserves as of this week, I will wind up the Moth du Jour feature that has otherwise kept you all sane and civilised. Good luck to any who have been inspired to get a moth trap and have a go themselves.

    Moth du Jour: Swallow-tailed Moth Ourapteryx sambucaria

    A moth of warm summer evenings, when it can appear in numbers. Beautiful when freshly emerged, they do have a tendency to get a bit tatty. So enjoy this pristine, fresh out the box example. Moth du Jour signing off....until the second wave.




    And what about those of us unable to go out. Do we also lose our Moth du Jour? :(
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,653

    If I was labour now I would be taking up the cause of furloughed workers and campaigning to keep them as as furloughed as possible for as long as possible.

    Taxpayers will be up in arms of course, but the plain fact is there aren't that many of them left.

    The furlough is very pro-business and is a striking success story. The government did exactly the right thing and deserves praise for it. Those who have been furloughed did not ask to be and now have to live withthe worry of not knowing whether they have jobs to go back to. The biggest disaster of all would be to end it and then have to go back into full lockdown because the numbers have spiked again.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,837

    HYUFD said:

    Genuinely wonder if Johnson might get ousted before 2024

    Boris is the best Tory election winner since Thatcher, they would be as mad to get rid of him as Labour were to replace Blair with Brown in 2007.

    Labour have not won a general election since and the Tories won only one majority in 25 years after they ousted Thatcher (and Major was Thatcher's preferred pick to replace her over Heseltine)
    Well the evidence of the last 5 years shows the Tory party is completely mad.
    Easy to say such things. But you were not there having to.make any eecisions. The zTories have seen.the nadt Labour Party since 2010... something to be very pleased about.
    Quite hard to write such things?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935
    edited May 2020
    MaxPB said:

    Shit slogan that's going to cause confusion and an increase in the infection rate. You can't stay alert to something you can't see. It's as simple as that.

    Can't you be alert to the risks of something?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,225
    DeClare said:

    OllyT said:

    OllyT said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    Charles said:

    My friends overseas are amazed at the bog we're apparently making of it. Laughing stock is one description.
    Very few people I know are laughing about this.

    I think that was a turn of phrase rather than meant to be taken literally. The fact is that the UK is being pointed to around the world as a failure in its response to Covid-19.
    By who? A few leftwing papers like the New York Times that is about it.

    Most countries are concerned with their own situation and anyway the US has most deaths in total and Belgium most deaths per head, not the UK
    Not true but DYOR.

    Missing the point again completely - what is going to damage the government is if the narrative takes hold that we are the worst performing country in Europe and that the Cabinet, by extension, have been incompetent.

    If that view takes hold it won't matter a jot that Belgium has more deaths per head.
    So what matters is if a lie takes hold?
    The slogan on the bus worked pretty well for the Brexiteers.

    Anyway, we do have the most deaths in Europe, you can argue that that there are other measures but it is not a lie.
    Reports that Italy are under reported deaths by 50%

    It is no means certain who has the highest european death toll and we are not even half way through this
    It has been widely reported this week that we have the highest number of deaths in Europe but of course that could change but I think it unlikely as our numbers are pretty much the highest in Europe every day now.

    Thing is when you have start arguing that other countries are lying about their stats then you are on the back foot.

    I think I read that France and now the UK are the only countries that count deaths outside of hospitals such as in care homes.

    Also to compare properly you have to look at deaths per million of population, ignoring microstates such as Andorra or Liechtenstein. Using this comparison Belgium, at present has the highest death rate in Europe.

    But another thing you should do is wait until the epidemic subsides, because we may eventually be overtaken by countries where the death rate is increasing or being maintained whilst ours is slowing down.

    When it's all over, statisticians might well find that there were several first world counties that had a worse epidemic than we did.
    Belgium, though, includes all deaths where there were possible coronavirus symptoms present, and therefore has the highest percentage in Europe for coronavirus deaths as a percentage of ‘excess deaths’. Something like 90% as opposed to our 70%.

    So, no, it’s not just France and the UK.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    Do the Germans have a furlough scheme?

    Its just that the anti-lockdown protests I have seen there look pretty big even before the scheisse has hit the whatever the German word for 'fan' is.

    When people find out what the real situation is, sheeesh.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,620

    The only one of those were alert makes any sense whatsoever is keeping 2m away from each other when out.

    How is staying at home related to being alert in any way?

    Stay safe was a much better choice to soften it from stay home.
    Because of the reason you're staying at home.
    Im not being alert, I may be dozy or even asleep I just havent gone through the front door!

    Stay safe is clearly better suited to all five statements in the tweet, what on earth was wrong with that?
    You stay safe by staying alert.

    So perhaps "Stay alert, keep safe" would be the precise meaning.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205

    Pulpstar said:

    Stay home was fine. Everyone knows there are reasonable exceptions, why change it ?

    They want us to go out. But carefully.

    The posts on here are entirely predictable

    However, 'stay at home' has to be changed at some time and frankly 'stay alert' seems to me to be a sensible change in the narrative

    Most people will understand that 'staying alert' is very much something they will want to do and in particular on social - distancing and general contact with others

    Listening to Mark Drakesford today any differences seem to be in the margins and of course those on here attacking Boris give a free pass to the devolved first ministers who sit alongside Boris in Cobra

    Boris and the government have made mistakes and I cannot understand why he has allowed the 'gossip' in the media to continue for so long when he could have addressed the nation days earlier. He needs a new 'comms' team as the present one is abject

    Actually we do have an advantage in so far as other countries are now easing their restrictions and their experiences will be useful for us to learn from

    I spent most of yesterday in our garden in the beautiful weather and rarely read PB and it was frankly refreshing, especially when I read the polarised comments from a few on here today who seem to be driven by other motives than the one most people crave for; overcoming covid 19

    Big_G: the public have shown that they're really good at following clear advice. Stay at home? OK, we'll stay at home. They are understandably less good at following fuzzy advice, and "Stay alert" could mean almost anything It worries me in a non-partisan sense that Boris's natural atyle is to emphasise stirring rhetoric and uplifting banter rather than boring precision. Perhaps he'll surprise me, though.

    I agree about the advantage of being late to the party so we can see how others are getting on. But we need to use that advatange to clear good effect.
    'Stay at home' isn't so good for those of us who have to go to work.

    Whereas staying alert is relevant advice when it comes to keeping distance from other people and touching things.
    All of my friends who have gone to work throughout this, including a cleaning friend have been very supportive of the stay home message actually I've found.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,225
    Cyclefree said:

    Anyway, as Boris will effectively allow us all out to go and explore our local nature reserves as of this week, I will wind up the Moth du Jour feature that has otherwise kept you all sane and civilised. Good luck to any who have been inspired to get a moth trap and have a go themselves.

    Moth du Jour: Swallow-tailed Moth Ourapteryx sambucaria

    A moth of warm summer evenings, when it can appear in numbers. Beautiful when freshly emerged, they do have a tendency to get a bit tatty. So enjoy this pristine, fresh out the box example. Moth du Jour signing off....until the second wave.



    And what about those of us unable to go out. Do we also lose our Moth du Jour? :(
    Perhaps you could take over with a Lakeland moth report ?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Guernsey, 10 days without a new case, 12 active cases remaining. ANY new arrivals have had to self quarantine for 14 days since March 19th.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,620
    MaxPB said:

    Shit slogan that's going to cause confusion and an increase in the infection rate. You can't stay alert to something you can't see. It's as simple as that.

    But you do see people and things they may have touched.

    And its those that infect you.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935

    Do the Germans have a furlough scheme?

    Its just that the anti-lockdown protests I have seen there look pretty big even before the scheisse has hit the whatever the German word for 'fan' is.

    When people find out what the real situation is, sheeesh.

    Yes they do.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    RobD said:

    MaxPB said:

    Shit slogan that's going to cause confusion and an increase in the infection rate. You can't stay alert to something you can't see. It's as simple as that.

    Can't you be alert to the risks of something?
    Of course you can.

    If I'm driving I try to be alert to the risks. If I approach a roundabout at high speed I slow down to see if there's an oncoming vehicle coming from the right. I'm alert precisely because I CAN'T SEE what's oncoming yet.
This discussion has been closed.