Good morning. I thought you may be interested in a perspective from The Philippines where my ex-neighbour lives:
“I keep up with all of the events in the UK on line – so am aware of what a mess the politicians have made of this – both with dealing with the epidemic, and with their reluctance to understand risk, and the result of this on the economy long term.
People love the state paying them not to work – but this is totally untenable and must come to an end very shortly. The amount of money being borrowed and printed by the government is truly staggering – your kids will spend half their working lives paying this debt off – it must stop and now.
No one will be travelling with the two week quarantine on the return to the UK in place – and a lot of countries have the two week quarantine on arrivals – so a two week holiday is actually a six week one – not going to happen.
We do not have it around here – but they do in Cebu City some way away – so the police have quarantined the City – no one allowed in or out – and as they are armed it is successful. There are travel restrictions in place here – so we can go down to Danao city – but you need a household pass – we have one – so no real issue. The tradesmen, such as the aircon/roofers/plumbers/electricians, come from Cebu – so my internal build has slowed down – but the travel restrictions are due to be lifted on the 15th May.”
The reality is, Johnson doesn't want to be a leader in a crisis. He wants to be the leader in good times, when we're all more concerned with Love Island and going to the pub.
He was not made for this kind of thing and neither was his Government/cabinet. And it shows.
To think they're only on 50% in the polls...
The point was made earlier about patriotism. Rallying round the flag!
She takes a very different view for Scotland in contrast to England?
Well, knock me down with a feather.
I can’t help but feel though this is politically risky.
If England reopens earlier and seems to be doing OK despite having been harder hit than Scotland, she’s going to have a hard time explaining to the voters of Scotland that it was really important that she forced them to absorb more economic damage so that Scottish policy would not be the same as English policy.
Of course, if the opposite is true, SNP gain 75% of seats and Labour gain Horsham.
The blue wall collapses? Not a chance, Boris could kill us all with abject incompetence, but Horsham remains firmly blue.
I wonder if more success for the SNP might actually come to bite them on the bum?
I'm thinking that at some point the stroppy teenager act is going to wear thin. All that whining and door slamming might just cause the UK government to decide to give them some adult responsibility.
In particular I am thinking changes to taxation could be a useful tool. If, say, as part of a package of tax changes to cope with the after-corona landscape, the UK regions were forced to become more self sufficient in revenue collecting? Suddenly no more blaming daddy for their stingy allowance.
I do find the older I get the more I understand what my parents went through...
The reality is, Johnson doesn't want to be a leader in a crisis. He wants to be the leader in good times, when we're all more concerned with Love Island and going to the pub.
He was not made for this kind of thing and neither was his Government/cabinet. And it shows.
Could you give us some examples of people who want to be leader during a crisis? It doesn't sound like the healthiest of attitudes.
Lenin. Ben-Gurion. van Gaal.
Ho Chi Minh.
Mao, perhaps, although he was more usually causing crises than trying to lead in them.
Churchill? Which is why Boris fancies himself. And why he's 'Speaking to the Nation' tonight instead of doing what a leader in a democracy ought to do, and set our his plans to the Parliament.
The reality is, Johnson doesn't want to be a leader in a crisis. He wants to be the leader in good times, when we're all more concerned with Love Island and going to the pub.
He was not made for this kind of thing and neither was his Government/cabinet. And it shows.
Could you give us some examples of people who want to be leader during a crisis? It doesn't sound like the healthiest of attitudes.
Lenin. Ben-Gurion. van Gaal.
Ho Chi Minh.
Mao, perhaps, although he was more usually causing crises than trying to lead in them.
Churchill? Which is why Boris fancies himself. And why he's 'Speaking to the Nation' tonight instead of doing what a leader in a democracy ought to do, and set our his plans to the Parliament.
I am hoping to goodness Boris hasn't written two speeches, pulling out the one that suits the mood music best at 6.59 this evening.
She takes a very different view for Scotland in contrast to England?
Well, knock me down with a feather.
The Labour Party and SNP are gagging for attack lines which is why both Sturgeon and Starmer have been pressing the government for lockdown easing plans - which they can they go on to criticise. Accordingly, Tories are scared of negative narratives developing. Bit of a stalemate. This party political stuff is the last thing we need at the moment.
She takes a very different view for Scotland in contrast to England?
Well, knock me down with a feather.
The Labour Party and SNP are gagging for attack lines which is why both Sturgeon and Starmer have been pressing the government for lockdown easing plans - which they can they go on to criticise. Accordingly, Tories are scared of negative narratives developing. Bit of a stalemate. This party political stuff is the last thing we need at the moment.
The government are in a proper bind.
The Government has a huge majority and is electorally safe for a while, for better or worse they don't need to worry what others think. They need to LEAD.
The reality is, Johnson doesn't want to be a leader in a crisis. He wants to be the leader in good times, when we're all more concerned with Love Island and going to the pub.
He was not made for this kind of thing and neither was his Government/cabinet. And it shows.
Could you give us some examples of people who want to be leader during a crisis? It doesn't sound like the healthiest of attitudes.
Lenin. Ben-Gurion. van Gaal.
Ho Chi Minh.
Mao, perhaps, although he was more usually causing crises than trying to lead in them.
Churchill? Which is why Boris fancies himself. And why he's 'Speaking to the Nation' tonight instead of doing what a leader in a democracy ought to do, and set our his plans to the Parliament.
I already mentioned him!
From his memoirs on the day he became Prime Minister:
‘As I went to bed at about 3am, I was conscious of a profound sense of relief. At last I had the authority to give directions over the whole scene. I felt as if I were walking with destiny and that all my past life had been but a preparation for this hour and this trial.’
SNP most seats is free money at 1/10. I just don't understand those odds at all. What could possibly prevent it? A Salmond inspired breakaway of a different nationalist party? I would put that at less than 50/1. A palace coup removing Sturgeon by the likes of Cherry? Not even 50/1. An all conquering Tory party? You just have to type it to see how absurd that is.
On a very good day I can see the Tories getting close to 30% and the SNP down to 35%. My wildest dreams don't go further than that.
"Half of those in work are content to be stuck indoors indefinitely if their company still pays them or they get 80 per cent of their salary under the government’s furlough scheme."
Our populist government is in a trap of it`s own devising. It wants to ease drawdown with public support - but support for easing lockdown will not happen while people are paid to stay at home.
Also, a plurality of those polled there preferred "lifting some restrictions as part of a phased return to normal life" over any other option for what the PM should do today.
The 'lockdown as long as it takes' contingent are bouncing around in the 25-35% box, and I bet they disproportionately include the financially secure, retired and those with homes with gardens.
I think the UK and especially the US are going to be pretty fucked. They're doing the same thing Japan did in mid-March: Cases flattened off a bit, the government sends mixed messages, so people start to end their response unilaterally. Except whereas Japan was doing this from a base of 1000 cases, the UK is doing it from 200,000 cases, and the US 1.2 million.
You end up with a new spike, a load more dead people, and you've blown away the effect of the lockdown and you have to start the whole thing again.
I am of the opinion that with the best will in the world any UK government would have struggled with testing, PPE supply and as the lockdown was such a big judgement call, I can even understand why that was held off until after the last minute.
The chaotic mixed messaging since Wednesday is truly shambolic and can be laid directly at Boris' door.
The mixed messaging isn’t coming from government though, it’s coming from media desperate to bounce the government into easing the restrictions (while simultaneously complaining about the number of cases being too high).
It's almost as if, I dunno, people in lockdown don't buy paper and don't generate any news..... Can't be as simple as that, can it?
Uh? Have you been at Eadric's absinthe again?
I have an extremely low opinion of the press that remarkably has been further reduced by their coverage of the pandemic.
She takes a very different view for Scotland in contrast to England?
Well, knock me down with a feather.
The Labour Party and SNP are gagging for attack lines which is why both Sturgeon and Starmer have been pressing the government for lockdown easing plans - which they can they go on to criticise. Accordingly, Tories are scared of negative narratives developing. Bit of a stalemate. This party political stuff is the last thing we need at the moment.
The government are in a proper bind.
The Government has a huge majority and is electorally safe for a while, for better or worse they don't need to worry what others think. They need to LEAD.
I completely agree. They are way to sensitive to negative headlines. But they are a populist government. We need leviathan.
She takes a very different view for Scotland in contrast to England?
Well, knock me down with a feather.
I can’t help but feel though this is politically risky.
If England reopens earlier and seems to be doing OK despite having been harder hit than Scotland, she’s going to have a hard time explaining to the voters of Scotland that it was really important that she forced them to absorb more economic damage so that Scottish policy would not be the same as English policy.
Of course, if the opposite is true, SNP gain 75% of seats and Labour gain Horsham.
If that happened she'd blame Westminster for not passing over enough PPE supplies, mismanaging the scientific advice, not giving enough funding under Barnett to the Scottish NHS, Brexit, the Tories or all of the above.
There is no scenario under which the SNP will ever take responsibility for any failing in Scotland.
Why wouldn't they be worried about it and trying to stop it?
They’re trying to stop it in the same way people like Cameron tried to stop Brexit by constantly warning that Eurosceptics would take us out of the EU.
It won't work. It's an identity question.
Obviously many Scots will be left entirely cold but I'd appeal to shared bonds we have as Britons across our islands and the great future we have together.
Forget the project fear stuff.
How would Scotland fund the £40-50bn in additional spending required to see off this virus? It's the unanswerable question.
There is the economic stuff, sure, but ultimately if we don't feel part of the same country the UK isn't going to stick in the long-term.
I'd prefer to win or lose on those grounds.
Indeed. I dont like that so many dont feel that it is, but the number doesnt seem to be reducing so at best things remain on a knifes edge. In a debate project fear stuff can be true but even when it is it wont win the day on its own.
She takes a very different view for Scotland in contrast to England?
Well, knock me down with a feather.
I can’t help but feel though this is politically risky.
If England reopens earlier and seems to be doing OK despite having been harder hit than Scotland, she’s going to have a hard time explaining to the voters of Scotland that it was really important that she forced them to absorb more economic damage so that Scottish policy would not be the same as English policy.
Of course, if the opposite is true, SNP gain 75% of seats and Labour gain Horsham.
If that happened she'd blame Westminster for not passing over enough PPE supplies, mismanaging the scientific advice, not giving enough funding under Barnett to the Scottish NHS, Brexit, the Tories or all of the above.
There is no scenario under which the SNP will ever take responsibility for any failing in Scotland.
No, you misunderstood. The scenario I am talking about is where easing lockdown makes no difference to the disease but helps the economy recover.
She couldn’t blame that on London if she had publicly said she was keeping it in place for epidemiological reasons, although she would undoubtedly try as you say.
Also, a plurality of those polled there preferred "lifting some restrictions as part of a phased return to normal life" over any other option for what the PM should do today.
The 'lockdown as long as it takes' contingent are bouncing around in the 25-35% box, and I bet they disproportionately include the financially secure, retired and those with homes with gardens.
I bet the people who want to be free to spread the virus disproportionately include those who (albeit often wrongly) think they're at no personal risk, and couldn't give a damn about the other people they may infect.
The reality is, Johnson doesn't want to be a leader in a crisis. He wants to be the leader in good times, when we're all more concerned with Love Island and going to the pub.
He was not made for this kind of thing and neither was his Government/cabinet. And it shows.
To think they're only on 50% in the polls...
Yes and that will forever baffle me. But I accept I'm not like the majority of the country.
I hope at least most will agree that we have a competent opposition again and if they continue to be competent, they should get more support.
How can anyone judge they are competent based on two PMQ appearances by Starmer?
As for the shadow cabinet, with a couple of exceptions their competence level is unknown.
The government seems to be benefiting for now from patriotism. The public is clear-eyed about its failures. How this will resolve itself once the crisis is past is unclear.
There does seem to be a downward swing in approval for the government’s handling of the crisis. It’s net +12 with Opinium now, that’s way down on where it was. The YouGov is from last week, so it’ll be interesting to track its evolution over time. If we’re going to get out of this with any degree of success we need confidence in the government to remain high. But the hatchet job on Hancock in today’s MoS shows the government does not even have confidence in itself. That is a worry.
No ot shows that the Mail is a shit paper writing shitty stuff.
Oh come on now. You must be the last person on this island ready to defend Matt Hancock. Dreadful throughout, totally out of his depth, supercilious, vacuous, self-promoting at every opportunity, clueless on the science, sending vacillatory messages and often responsible for some of the worst failings of the crisis handling.
This crisis has shown that Boris has a number of deadbeats in his Cabinet.
The entire cabinet is full of deadbeats, why is this news to anyone???
You are missing a Shadow in there. I'm not sure any of that shower of deadbeats will ever get to see a Ministerial limo in their career.
Boris' selection criteria for Cabinet was anyone who might eclipse me doesn't make the cut. There are some magnificent Tory MPs, few made it into Boris' cabinet.
That's true but that's hardly unusual in politics, it is not a new phenomenon that people dont get selected on merit. The question is whether Boris' cabibet are an egregious example.
She takes a very different view for Scotland in contrast to England?
Well, knock me down with a feather.
I can’t help but feel though this is politically risky.
If England reopens earlier and seems to be doing OK despite having been harder hit than Scotland, she’s going to have a hard time explaining to the voters of Scotland that it was really important that she forced them to absorb more economic damage so that Scottish policy would not be the same as English policy.
Of course, if the opposite is true, SNP gain 75% of seats and Labour gain Horsham.
If that happened she'd blame Westminster for not passing over enough PPE supplies, mismanaging the scientific advice, not giving enough funding under Barnett to the Scottish NHS, Brexit, the Tories or all of the above.
There is no scenario under which the SNP will ever take responsibility for any failing in Scotland.
No, you misunderstood. The scenario I am talking about is where easing lockdown makes no difference to the disease but helps the economy recover.
She couldn’t blame that on London if she had publicly said she was keeping it in place for epidemiological reasons, although she would undoubtedly try as you say.
Fair enough.
She'd still do it though and her base would lap it up.
The reality is, Johnson doesn't want to be a leader in a crisis. He wants to be the leader in good times, when we're all more concerned with Love Island and going to the pub.
He was not made for this kind of thing and neither was his Government/cabinet. And it shows.
To think they're only on 50% in the polls...
The point was made earlier about patriotism. Rallying round the flag!
It was already pretty darn high, the rallying effect can be over exaggerated.
The absolute inevitability of SNP most seats is what drives Tory tactics in focusing on indepdence. What is the point in spending a lot of time developing a better policy on education when there is no chance of being the government? What they are seeking to do is consolidate enough of the Unionist vote to prevent an SNP majority and thus, hopefully, prevent a second referendum (subject to the little green helpers, of course).
Whilst I understand the logic of that it is a mistake. Scotland has not had an actual policy choice since 2007. In that 13 years we have had the truly disastrous Curriculum for Excellence imposed in our schools with the inevitable consequences in our PISA ranking, we have the insane position of still offering free University education to EU citizens at a time when funded places for Scots are being restricted, we have had the shambolic and ongoing embarrassment that is Police Scotland, we have had an ever more centralised and unaccountable concentration of power in the likes of the Care Commission, stripping local government of powers and budget, I really could go on and on. As someone actively interested in politics I genuinely don't know what the Tories or Labour are proposing in relation to these failures. It's not good enough. Scotland needs a proper choice.
She takes a very different view for Scotland in contrast to England?
Well, knock me down with a feather.
The Labour Party and SNP are gagging for attack lines which is why both Sturgeon and Starmer have been pressing the government for lockdown easing plans - which they can they go on to criticise. Accordingly, Tories are scared of negative narratives developing. Bit of a stalemate. This party political stuff is the last thing we need at the moment.
The government are in a proper bind.
I generally believe key opposition politicians have been very measured in their response to the government's handling of Covid-19 so far. When dissent has occurred by and large it has been in response to some party political wheeze by Boris or Cummings.
Also, a plurality of those polled there preferred "lifting some restrictions as part of a phased return to normal life" over any other option for what the PM should do today.
The 'lockdown as long as it takes' contingent are bouncing around in the 25-35% box, and I bet they disproportionately include the financially secure, retired and those with homes with gardens.
I bet the people who want to be free to spread the virus disproportionately include those who (albeit often wrongly) think they're at no personal risk, and couldn't give a damn about the other people they may infect.
My sense is people don't really enjoy the office that much and are happy to work from home ad infinitum.
However, they do want to be able to see very close friends and family. The rest they can live with. They are largely ignorant or indifferent to the long-term economic effects so long as they don't have to bear the costs.
The government seems to be benefiting for now from patriotism. The public is clear-eyed about its failures. How this will resolve itself once the crisis is past is unclear.
There does seem to be a downward swing in approval for the government’s handling of the crisis. It’s net +12 with Opinium now, that’s way down on where it was. The YouGov is from last week, so it’ll be interesting to track its evolution over time. If we’re going to get out of this with any degree of success we need confidence in the government to remain high. But the hatchet job on Hancock in today’s MoS shows the government does not even have confidence in itself. That is a worry.
No ot shows that the Mail is a shit paper writing shitty stuff.
Oh come on now. You must be the last person on this island ready to defend Matt Hancock. Dreadful throughout, totally out of his depth, supercilious, vacuous, self-promoting at every opportunity, clueless on the science, sending vacillatory messages and often responsible for some of the worst failings of the crisis handling.
This crisis has shown that Boris has a number of deadbeats in his Cabinet.
The entire cabinet is full of deadbeats, why is this news to anyone???
You are missing a Shadow in there. I'm not sure any of that shower of deadbeats will ever get to see a Ministerial limo in their career.
Boris' selection criteria for Cabinet was anyone who might eclipse me doesn't make the cut. There are some magnificent Tory MPs, few made it into Boris' cabinet.
That's true but that's hardly unusual in politics, it is not a new phenomenon that people dont get selected on merit. The question is whether Boris' cabibet are an egregious example.
True, although Boris has taken it to Olympic standards.
Is this graph correcf fie the UK? We dont record total active cases do we? It seems wrong.
I'm not sure on the accuracy of that chart (the UK seems to have come down faster than that) but that looks rather like the UK has "flattened the curve". The flatten the curve graphs shared massively before lockdown had the no flattening one being steeply up then steeply down while the flattened curve one was up but to a lower peak then coming down much slower and with a longer tail than without flattening.
She takes a very different view for Scotland in contrast to England?
Well, knock me down with a feather.
The Labour Party and SNP are gagging for attack lines which is why both Sturgeon and Starmer have been pressing the government for lockdown easing plans - which they can they go on to criticise. Accordingly, Tories are scared of negative narratives developing. Bit of a stalemate. This party political stuff is the last thing we need at the moment.
The government are in a proper bind.
The Government has a huge majority and is electorally safe for a while, for better or worse they don't need to worry what others think. They need to LEAD.
Yes, even while riding high pre Corona they were acting nervous about every little thing. Goodness knows how they'll react when they fall well behind the opposition, which is a common position once you get years into a term. Theyve forgotten that.
Is this graph correcf fie the UK? We dont record total active cases do we? It seems wrong.
I'm not sure on the accuracy of that chart (the UK seems to have come down faster than that) but that looks rather like the UK has "flattened the curve". The flatten the curve graphs shared massively before lockdown had the no flattening one being steeply up then steeply down while the flattened curve one was up but to a lower peak then coming down much slower and with a longer tail than without flattening.
The UK is almost unique in failing to record the number of recovered so any chart of active cases can only go down if people die. Its absurd and I don't understand why we do not record this information which is surely essential if we need to know how close to herd immunity we are getting.
The absolute inevitability of SNP most seats is what drives Tory tactics in focusing on indepdence. What is the point in spending a lot of time developing a better policy on education when there is no chance of being the government? What they are seeking to do is consolidate enough of the Unionist vote to prevent an SNP majority and thus, hopefully, prevent a second referendum (subject to the little green helpers, of course).
Whilst I understand the logic of that it is a mistake. Scotland has not had an actual policy choice since 2007. In that 13 years we have had the truly disastrous Curriculum for Excellence imposed in our schools with the inevitable consequences in our PISA ranking, we have the insane position of still offering free University education to EU citizens at a time when funded places for Scots are being restricted, we have had the shambolic and ongoing embarrassment that is Police Scotland, we have had an ever more centralised and unaccountable concentration of power in the likes of the Care Commission, stripping local government of powers and budget, I really could go on and on. As someone actively interested in politics I genuinely don't know what the Tories or Labour are proposing in relation to these failures. It's not good enough. Scotland needs a proper choice.
Which is part of why I back Scottish independence as the best thing for Scotland.
It is only once the independence issue is over and done with that Scotland can get mature, grown up politics back.
Why wouldn't they be worried about it and trying to stop it?
If they could only shut up about SNP doing it when it is in fact them that are obsessed, rightly so given they know they are doomed.
There was quite a wee burst of Jackson for FM when he won the Tunnock's Wafer Challenge Cup aka SCon leadership. I assume even Tories are too embarrassed to try that line now.
The absolute inevitability of SNP most seats is what drives Tory tactics in focusing on indepdence. What is the point in spending a lot of time developing a better policy on education when there is no chance of being the government? What they are seeking to do is consolidate enough of the Unionist vote to prevent an SNP majority and thus, hopefully, prevent a second referendum (subject to the little green helpers, of course).
Whilst I understand the logic of that it is a mistake. Scotland has not had an actual policy choice since 2007. In that 13 years we have had the truly disastrous Curriculum for Excellence imposed in our schools with the inevitable consequences in our PISA ranking, we have the insane position of still offering free University education to EU citizens at a time when funded places for Scots are being restricted, we have had the shambolic and ongoing embarrassment that is Police Scotland, we have had an ever more centralised and unaccountable concentration of power in the likes of the Care Commission, stripping local government of powers and budget, I really could go on and on. As someone actively interested in politics I genuinely don't know what the Tories or Labour are proposing in relation to these failures. It's not good enough. Scotland needs a proper choice.
Which is part of why I back Scottish independence as the best thing for Scotland.
It is only once the independence issue is over and done with that Scotland can get mature, grown up politics back.
I am British. I would be stripped of my national identity if that were to happen. I will do all I can to stop it.
I think the UK and especially the US are going to be pretty fucked. They're doing the same thing Japan did in mid-March: Cases flattened off a bit, the government sends mixed messages, so people start to end their response unilaterally. Except whereas Japan was doing this from a base of 1000 cases, the UK is doing it from 200,000 cases, and the US 1.2 million.
You end up with a new spike, a load more dead people, and you've blown away the effect of the lockdown and you have to start the whole thing again.
I am of the opinion that with the best will in the world any UK government would have struggled with testing, PPE supply and as the lockdown was such a big judgement call, I can even understand why that was held off until after the last minute.
The chaotic mixed messaging since Wednesday is truly shambolic and can be laid directly at Boris' door.
The mixed messaging isn’t coming from government though, it’s coming from media desperate to bounce the government into easing the restrictions (while simultaneously complaining about the number of cases being too high).
Do you think there is clear message coming from this government? It seems to me to be more like an uncoordinated rabble. This is not surprising, since the Conservative Party nowadays is an unholy alliance of conflicting interests.
People in government evidently don’t agree on what the next step should be. Perhaps they should set out options in Parliament and get an indicative vote.
The absolute inevitability of SNP most seats is what drives Tory tactics in focusing on indepdence. What is the point in spending a lot of time developing a better policy on education when there is no chance of being the government? What they are seeking to do is consolidate enough of the Unionist vote to prevent an SNP majority and thus, hopefully, prevent a second referendum (subject to the little green helpers, of course).
Whilst I understand the logic of that it is a mistake. Scotland has not had an actual policy choice since 2007. In that 13 years we have had the truly disastrous Curriculum for Excellence imposed in our schools with the inevitable consequences in our PISA ranking, we have the insane position of still offering free University education to EU citizens at a time when funded places for Scots are being restricted, we have had the shambolic and ongoing embarrassment that is Police Scotland, we have had an ever more centralised and unaccountable concentration of power in the likes of the Care Commission, stripping local government of powers and budget, I really could go on and on. As someone actively interested in politics I genuinely don't know what the Tories or Labour are proposing in relation to these failures. It's not good enough. Scotland needs a proper choice.
Which is part of why I back Scottish independence as the best thing for Scotland.
It is only once the independence issue is over and done with that Scotland can get mature, grown up politics back.
If you say so, but I'm pretty sure Brexit has shown there would be a sharp decrease in grown up politics for a significant period, on all sides, post any vote and pre enactment of that vote. If it's what people want it must happen but it will be even more emotional and complicated and anyone suggesting it will be easy - that in this one instance such a process would be easy - is talking nonsense.
The absolute inevitability of SNP most seats is what drives Tory tactics in focusing on indepdence. What is the point in spending a lot of time developing a better policy on education when there is no chance of being the government? What they are seeking to do is consolidate enough of the Unionist vote to prevent an SNP majority and thus, hopefully, prevent a second referendum (subject to the little green helpers, of course).
Whilst I understand the logic of that it is a mistake. Scotland has not had an actual policy choice since 2007. In that 13 years we have had the truly disastrous Curriculum for Excellence imposed in our schools with the inevitable consequences in our PISA ranking, we have the insane position of still offering free University education to EU citizens at a time when funded places for Scots are being restricted, we have had the shambolic and ongoing embarrassment that is Police Scotland, we have had an ever more centralised and unaccountable concentration of power in the likes of the Care Commission, stripping local government of powers and budget, I really could go on and on. As someone actively interested in politics I genuinely don't know what the Tories or Labour are proposing in relation to these failures. It's not good enough. Scotland needs a proper choice.
Which is part of why I back Scottish independence as the best thing for Scotland.
It is only once the independence issue is over and done with that Scotland can get mature, grown up politics back.
I am British. I would be stripped of my national identity if that were to happen. I will do all I can to stop it.
Good man. I feel the same way.
I am English but love Scotland - I lived there for six years as a child - and feel it's part of our UK.
I would be so upset if it left. It's the emotional connections that mean so much to me.
The absolute inevitability of SNP most seats is what drives Tory tactics in focusing on indepdence. What is the point in spending a lot of time developing a better policy on education when there is no chance of being the government? What they are seeking to do is consolidate enough of the Unionist vote to prevent an SNP majority and thus, hopefully, prevent a second referendum (subject to the little green helpers, of course).
Whilst I understand the logic of that it is a mistake. Scotland has not had an actual policy choice since 2007. In that 13 years we have had the truly disastrous Curriculum for Excellence imposed in our schools with the inevitable consequences in our PISA ranking, we have the insane position of still offering free University education to EU citizens at a time when funded places for Scots are being restricted, we have had the shambolic and ongoing embarrassment that is Police Scotland, we have had an ever more centralised and unaccountable concentration of power in the likes of the Care Commission, stripping local government of powers and budget, I really could go on and on. As someone actively interested in politics I genuinely don't know what the Tories or Labour are proposing in relation to these failures. It's not good enough. Scotland needs a proper choice.
Which is part of why I back Scottish independence as the best thing for Scotland.
It is only once the independence issue is over and done with that Scotland can get mature, grown up politics back.
I am British. I would be stripped of my national identity if that were to happen. I will do all I can to stop it.
It was your sense of British identity that prevented you from doing all you could to stop it in June 2016.
The reality is, Johnson doesn't want to be a leader in a crisis. He wants to be the leader in good times, when we're all more concerned with Love Island and going to the pub.
He was not made for this kind of thing and neither was his Government/cabinet. And it shows.
Could you give us some examples of people who want to be leader during a crisis? It doesn't sound like the healthiest of attitudes.
Lenin. Ben-Gurion. van Gaal.
Ho Chi Minh.
Mao, perhaps, although he was more usually causing crises than trying to lead in them.
Churchill? Which is why Boris fancies himself. And why he's 'Speaking to the Nation' tonight instead of doing what a leader in a democracy ought to do, and set our his plans to the Parliament.
I am hoping to goodness Boris hasn't written two speeches, pulling out the one that suits the mood music best at 6.59 this evening.
Nope, BJ has definitely grown in office. It's 3 speeches at least.
The absolute inevitability of SNP most seats is what drives Tory tactics in focusing on indepdence. What is the point in spending a lot of time developing a better policy on education when there is no chance of being the government? What they are seeking to do is consolidate enough of the Unionist vote to prevent an SNP majority and thus, hopefully, prevent a second referendum (subject to the little green helpers, of course).
Whilst I understand the logic of that it is a mistake. Scotland has not had an actual policy choice since 2007. In that 13 years we have had the truly disastrous Curriculum for Excellence imposed in our schools with the inevitable consequences in our PISA ranking, we have the insane position of still offering free University education to EU citizens at a time when funded places for Scots are being restricted, we have had the shambolic and ongoing embarrassment that is Police Scotland, we have had an ever more centralised and unaccountable concentration of power in the likes of the Care Commission, stripping local government of powers and budget, I really could go on and on. As someone actively interested in politics I genuinely don't know what the Tories or Labour are proposing in relation to these failures. It's not good enough. Scotland needs a proper choice.
Which is part of why I back Scottish independence as the best thing for Scotland.
It is only once the independence issue is over and done with that Scotland can get mature, grown up politics back.
I am British. I would be stripped of my national identity if that were to happen. I will do all I can to stop it.
I feel European and I have been stripped of my citizenship!
I think the UK and especially the US are going to be pretty fucked. They're doing the same thing Japan did in mid-March: Cases flattened off a bit, the government sends mixed messages, so people start to end their response unilaterally. Except whereas Japan was doing this from a base of 1000 cases, the UK is doing it from 200,000 cases, and the US 1.2 million.
You end up with a new spike, a load more dead people, and you've blown away the effect of the lockdown and you have to start the whole thing again.
I am of the opinion that with the best will in the world any UK government would have struggled with testing, PPE supply and as the lockdown was such a big judgement call, I can even understand why that was held off until after the last minute.
The chaotic mixed messaging since Wednesday is truly shambolic and can be laid directly at Boris' door.
The mixed messaging isn’t coming from government though, it’s coming from media desperate to bounce the government into easing the restrictions (while simultaneously complaining about the number of cases being too high).
Do you think there is clear message coming from this government? It seems to me to be more like an uncoordinated rabble. This is not surprising, since the Conservative Party nowadays is an unholy alliance of conflicting interests.
Some of the messaging from government has been perfectly clear and effective, indeed some have reversed course and called it too effective. But it's clearly not been universally clear on every aspect, and it's not a surprise that as a new phase approaches theres less certainty and agreement on what to do.
The absolute inevitability of SNP most seats is what drives Tory tactics in focusing on indepdence. What is the point in spending a lot of time developing a better policy on education when there is no chance of being the government? What they are seeking to do is consolidate enough of the Unionist vote to prevent an SNP majority and thus, hopefully, prevent a second referendum (subject to the little green helpers, of course).
Whilst I understand the logic of that it is a mistake. Scotland has not had an actual policy choice since 2007. In that 13 years we have had the truly disastrous Curriculum for Excellence imposed in our schools with the inevitable consequences in our PISA ranking, we have the insane position of still offering free University education to EU citizens at a time when funded places for Scots are being restricted, we have had the shambolic and ongoing embarrassment that is Police Scotland, we have had an ever more centralised and unaccountable concentration of power in the likes of the Care Commission, stripping local government of powers and budget, I really could go on and on. As someone actively interested in politics I genuinely don't know what the Tories or Labour are proposing in relation to these failures. It's not good enough. Scotland needs a proper choice.
Which is part of why I back Scottish independence as the best thing for Scotland.
It is only once the independence issue is over and done with that Scotland can get mature, grown up politics back.
I am British. I would be stripped of my national identity if that were to happen. I will do all I can to stop it.
Good man. I feel the same way.
I am English but love Scotland - I lived there for six years as a child - and feel it's part of our UK.
I would be so upset if it left. It's the emotional connections that mean so much to me.
British identity is already dead. The country is possessed by an English nationalism that regards all other identities as invalid.
I think the UK and especially the US are going to be pretty fucked. They're doing the same thing Japan did in mid-March: Cases flattened off a bit, the government sends mixed messages, so people start to end their response unilaterally. Except whereas Japan was doing this from a base of 1000 cases, the UK is doing it from 200,000 cases, and the US 1.2 million.
You end up with a new spike, a load more dead people, and you've blown away the effect of the lockdown and you have to start the whole thing again.
I am of the opinion that with the best will in the world any UK government would have struggled with testing, PPE supply and as the lockdown was such a big judgement call, I can even understand why that was held off until after the last minute.
The chaotic mixed messaging since Wednesday is truly shambolic and can be laid directly at Boris' door.
The mixed messaging isn’t coming from government though, it’s coming from media desperate to bounce the government into easing the restrictions (while simultaneously complaining about the number of cases being too high).
Do you think there is clear message coming from this government? It seems to me to be more like an uncoordinated rabble. This is not surprising, since the Conservative Party nowadays is an unholy alliance of conflicting interests.
Anyone who doesn't understand the messages from the Government is as dim as Beth Rigby
The absolute inevitability of SNP most seats is what drives Tory tactics in focusing on indepdence. What is the point in spending a lot of time developing a better policy on education when there is no chance of being the government? What they are seeking to do is consolidate enough of the Unionist vote to prevent an SNP majority and thus, hopefully, prevent a second referendum (subject to the little green helpers, of course).
Whilst I understand the logic of that it is a mistake. Scotland has not had an actual policy choice since 2007. In that 13 years we have had the truly disastrous Curriculum for Excellence imposed in our schools with the inevitable consequences in our PISA ranking, we have the insane position of still offering free University education to EU citizens at a time when funded places for Scots are being restricted, we have had the shambolic and ongoing embarrassment that is Police Scotland, we have had an ever more centralised and unaccountable concentration of power in the likes of the Care Commission, stripping local government of powers and budget, I really could go on and on. As someone actively interested in politics I genuinely don't know what the Tories or Labour are proposing in relation to these failures. It's not good enough. Scotland needs a proper choice.
Which is part of why I back Scottish independence as the best thing for Scotland.
It is only once the independence issue is over and done with that Scotland can get mature, grown up politics back.
I am British. I would be stripped of my national identity if that were to happen. I will do all I can to stop it.
Good man. I feel the same way.
I am English but love Scotland - I lived there for six years as a child - and feel it's part of our UK.
I would be so upset if it left. It's the emotional connections that mean so much to me.
British identity is already dead. The country is possessed by an English nationalism that regards all other identities as invalid.
I think you'll find it was a British nationalism that regarded Englishness as an affectation or worse that caused the problem.
The absolute inevitability of SNP most seats is what drives Tory tactics in focusing on indepdence. What is the point in spending a lot of time developing a better policy on education when there is no chance of being the government? What they are seeking to do is consolidate enough of the Unionist vote to prevent an SNP majority and thus, hopefully, prevent a second referendum (subject to the little green helpers, of course).
Whilst I understand the logic of that it is a mistake. Scotland has not had an actual policy choice since 2007. In that 13 years we have had the truly disastrous Curriculum for Excellence imposed in our schools with the inevitable consequences in our PISA ranking, we have the insane position of still offering free University education to EU citizens at a time when funded places for Scots are being restricted, we have had the shambolic and ongoing embarrassment that is Police Scotland, we have had an ever more centralised and unaccountable concentration of power in the likes of the Care Commission, stripping local government of powers and budget, I really could go on and on. As someone actively interested in politics I genuinely don't know what the Tories or Labour are proposing in relation to these failures. It's not good enough. Scotland needs a proper choice.
Which is part of why I back Scottish independence as the best thing for Scotland.
It is only once the independence issue is over and done with that Scotland can get mature, grown up politics back.
I am British. I would be stripped of my national identity if that were to happen. I will do all I can to stop it.
I feel European and I have been stripped of my citizenship!
And you did all you could to stop that. As did many many others. Unsuccessfully, yes, but all that process shows is that there will be many doing all they can to not lose their British identity should Sindy occur, which I'm sure it will.
My friends overseas are amazed at the bog we're apparently making of it. Laughing stock is one description.
The government seems to be benefiting for now from patriotism. The public is clear-eyed about its failures. How this will resolve itself once the crisis is past is unclear.
Excellent point. VE Day appears to have been used to that end.
A couple of days ago the Mail online (I know) had series of newspaper frontpages from across the world all with pretty much the same theme - why is the UK making such a mess of the handling the virus?
Boris fans can rightly claim we are not the worst European nation per capita (yet) or other countries don't count this or that or are underreporting the figures but none of that will matter if the narrative takes hold that we have done the worst in Europe. I think that narrative is well on the way to become the conventional wisdom.
Boris had better hope that the end of the Brexit transition is handled successfully or his government is going to be well and truly stuck with the incompetence tag.
The absolute inevitability of SNP most seats is what drives Tory tactics in focusing on indepdence. What is the point in spending a lot of time developing a better policy on education when there is no chance of being the government? What they are seeking to do is consolidate enough of the Unionist vote to prevent an SNP majority and thus, hopefully, prevent a second referendum (subject to the little green helpers, of course).
Whilst I understand the logic of that it is a mistake. Scotland has not had an actual policy choice since 2007. In that 13 years we have had the truly disastrous Curriculum for Excellence imposed in our schools with the inevitable consequences in our PISA ranking, we have the insane position of still offering free University education to EU citizens at a time when funded places for Scots are being restricted, we have had the shambolic and ongoing embarrassment that is Police Scotland, we have had an ever more centralised and unaccountable concentration of power in the likes of the Care Commission, stripping local government of powers and budget, I really could go on and on. As someone actively interested in politics I genuinely don't know what the Tories or Labour are proposing in relation to these failures. It's not good enough. Scotland needs a proper choice.
Which is part of why I back Scottish independence as the best thing for Scotland.
It is only once the independence issue is over and done with that Scotland can get mature, grown up politics back.
I am British. I would be stripped of my national identity if that were to happen. I will do all I can to stop it.
Good man. I feel the same way.
I am English but love Scotland - I lived there for six years as a child - and feel it's part of our UK.
I would be so upset if it left. It's the emotional connections that mean so much to me.
British identity is already dead. The country is possessed by an English nationalism that regards all other identities as invalid.
The absolute inevitability of SNP most seats is what drives Tory tactics in focusing on indepdence. What is the point in spending a lot of time developing a better policy on education when there is no chance of being the government? What they are seeking to do is consolidate enough of the Unionist vote to prevent an SNP majority and thus, hopefully, prevent a second referendum (subject to the little green helpers, of course).
Whilst I understand the logic of that it is a mistake. Scotland has not had an actual policy choice since 2007. In that 13 years we have had the truly disastrous Curriculum for Excellence imposed in our schools with the inevitable consequences in our PISA ranking, we have the insane position of still offering free University education to EU citizens at a time when funded places for Scots are being restricted, we have had the shambolic and ongoing embarrassment that is Police Scotland, we have had an ever more centralised and unaccountable concentration of power in the likes of the Care Commission, stripping local government of powers and budget, I really could go on and on. As someone actively interested in politics I genuinely don't know what the Tories or Labour are proposing in relation to these failures. It's not good enough. Scotland needs a proper choice.
Perhaps you could give the new Wings party a shot? They're as likely* to provide a competent opposition to the SNP as anyone.
The absolute inevitability of SNP most seats is what drives Tory tactics in focusing on indepdence. What is the point in spending a lot of time developing a better policy on education when there is no chance of being the government? What they are seeking to do is consolidate enough of the Unionist vote to prevent an SNP majority and thus, hopefully, prevent a second referendum (subject to the little green helpers, of course).
Whilst I understand the logic of that it is a mistake. Scotland has not had an actual policy choice since 2007. In that 13 years we have had the truly disastrous Curriculum for Excellence imposed in our schools with the inevitable consequences in our PISA ranking, we have the insane position of still offering free University education to EU citizens at a time when funded places for Scots are being restricted, we have had the shambolic and ongoing embarrassment that is Police Scotland, we have had an ever more centralised and unaccountable concentration of power in the likes of the Care Commission, stripping local government of powers and budget, I really could go on and on. As someone actively interested in politics I genuinely don't know what the Tories or Labour are proposing in relation to these failures. It's not good enough. Scotland needs a proper choice.
Which is part of why I back Scottish independence as the best thing for Scotland.
It is only once the independence issue is over and done with that Scotland can get mature, grown up politics back.
I am British. I would be stripped of my national identity if that were to happen. I will do all I can to stop it.
Good man. I feel the same way.
I am English but love Scotland - I lived there for six years as a child - and feel it's part of our UK.
I would be so upset if it left. It's the emotional connections that mean so much to me.
British identity is already dead. The country is possessed by an English nationalism that regards all other identities as invalid.
Please dont tell me my identity is dead. Its extremely childish to tell people how in effect that what they feel is not real, as a means of delegitimising a particular view.
That the identity may not be strong enough with enough people to preserve the union may be true but that's not the same thing.
I think the UK and especially the US are going to be pretty fucked. They're doing the same thing Japan did in mid-March: Cases flattened off a bit, the government sends mixed messages, so people start to end their response unilaterally. Except whereas Japan was doing this from a base of 1000 cases, the UK is doing it from 200,000 cases, and the US 1.2 million.
You end up with a new spike, a load more dead people, and you've blown away the effect of the lockdown and you have to start the whole thing again.
I am of the opinion that with the best will in the world any UK government would have struggled with testing, PPE supply and as the lockdown was such a big judgement call, I can even understand why that was held off until after the last minute.
The chaotic mixed messaging since Wednesday is truly shambolic and can be laid directly at Boris' door.
The mixed messaging isn’t coming from government though, it’s coming from media desperate to bounce the government into easing the restrictions (while simultaneously complaining about the number of cases being too high).
Do you think there is clear message coming from this government? It seems to me to be more like an uncoordinated rabble. This is not surprising, since the Conservative Party nowadays is an unholy alliance of conflicting interests.
Anyone who doesn't understand the messages from the Government is as dim as Beth Rigby
People understood the government's messages in Thursday's papers.
That's why they spent the next two days relaxing in the park.
The absolute inevitability of SNP most seats is what drives Tory tactics in focusing on indepdence. What is the point in spending a lot of time developing a better policy on education when there is no chance of being the government? What they are seeking to do is consolidate enough of the Unionist vote to prevent an SNP majority and thus, hopefully, prevent a second referendum (subject to the little green helpers, of course).
Whilst I understand the logic of that it is a mistake. Scotland has not had an actual policy choice since 2007. In that 13 years we have had the truly disastrous Curriculum for Excellence imposed in our schools with the inevitable consequences in our PISA ranking, we have the insane position of still offering free University education to EU citizens at a time when funded places for Scots are being restricted, we have had the shambolic and ongoing embarrassment that is Police Scotland, we have had an ever more centralised and unaccountable concentration of power in the likes of the Care Commission, stripping local government of powers and budget, I really could go on and on. As someone actively interested in politics I genuinely don't know what the Tories or Labour are proposing in relation to these failures. It's not good enough. Scotland needs a proper choice.
Which is part of why I back Scottish independence as the best thing for Scotland.
It is only once the independence issue is over and done with that Scotland can get mature, grown up politics back.
I am British. I would be stripped of my national identity if that were to happen. I will do all I can to stop it.
Good man. I feel the same way.
I am English but love Scotland - I lived there for six years as a child - and feel it's part of our UK.
I would be so upset if it left. It's the emotional connections that mean so much to me.
British identity is already dead. The country is possessed by an English nationalism that regards all other identities as invalid.
Not amongst all of us it isn't.
I almost feel sorry for you because you’re so oblivious. But you chose to throw yourself in with a movement that militantly rejects other views of identity, branding them traitors and quislings, and telling them just to suck it up.
And then you wonder why the concept of an inclusive Britishness is now purely historical.
Scotland is in a mess. It is in No Man's Land between Uionists who can't preserve the Union, and an independence party that can win seats but not independence.
Germany's Der Spiegel published the allegations this weekend, citing intelligence from the country's Federal Intelligence Service, known as the 'Bundesnachrichtendienst' (BND).
According to the BND: 'On January 21, China's leader Xi Jinping asked WHO chief Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus to hold back information about a human-to-human transmission and to delay a pandemic warning.
The absolute inevitability of SNP most seats is what drives Tory tactics in focusing on indepdence. What is the point in spending a lot of time developing a better policy on education when there is no chance of being the government? What they are seeking to do is consolidate enough of the Unionist vote to prevent an SNP majority and thus, hopefully, prevent a second referendum (subject to the little green helpers, of course).
Whilst I understand the logic of that it is a mistake. Scotland has not had an actual policy choice since 2007. In that 13 years we have had the truly disastrous Curriculum for Excellence imposed in our schools with the inevitable consequences in our PISA ranking, we have the insane position of still offering free University education to EU citizens at a time when funded places for Scots are being restricted, we have had the shambolic and ongoing embarrassment that is Police Scotland, we have had an ever more centralised and unaccountable concentration of power in the likes of the Care Commission, stripping local government of powers and budget, I really could go on and on. As someone actively interested in politics I genuinely don't know what the Tories or Labour are proposing in relation to these failures. It's not good enough. Scotland needs a proper choice.
Which is part of why I back Scottish independence as the best thing for Scotland.
It is only once the independence issue is over and done with that Scotland can get mature, grown up politics back.
I am British. I would be stripped of my national identity if that were to happen. I will do all I can to stop it.
Good man. I feel the same way.
I am English but love Scotland - I lived there for six years as a child - and feel it's part of our UK.
I would be so upset if it left. It's the emotional connections that mean so much to me.
British identity is already dead. The country is possessed by an English nationalism that regards all other identities as invalid.
Not amongst all of us it isn't.
I almost feel sorry for you because you’re so oblivious. But you chose to throw yourself in with a movement that militantly rejects other views of identity, branding them traitors and quislings, and telling them just to suck it up.
And then you wonder why the concept of an inclusive Britishness is now purely historical.
My friends overseas are amazed at the bog we're apparently making of it. Laughing stock is one description.
Very few people I know are laughing about this.
I think that was a turn of phrase rather than meant to be taken literally. The fact is that the UK is being pointed to around the world as a failure in its response to Covid-19.
My friends overseas are amazed at the bog we're apparently making of it. Laughing stock is one description.
The government seems to be benefiting for now from patriotism. The public is clear-eyed about its failures. How this will resolve itself once the crisis is past is unclear.
Excellent point. VE Day appears to have been used to that end.
A couple of days ago the Mail online (I know) had series of newspaper frontpages from across the world all with pretty much the same theme - why is the UK making such a mess of the handling the virus?
Boris fans can rightly claim we are not the worst European nation per capita (yet) or other countries don't count this or that or are underreporting the figures but none of that will matter if the narrative takes hold that we have done the worst in Europe. I think that narrative is well on the way to become the conventional wisdom.
Boris had better hope that the end of the Brexit transition is handled successfully or his government is going to be well and truly stuck with the incompetence tag.
I think this is right. Narrative is always key and we are clearly doing pretty badly and even if at the end of the day its not technically the worst if its arguable that we might be that will be enough.
A lot of people are criticising Boris which is fine by me, he's fair game, but who do we think is better equipped to cope at the moment?
I honestly can't think of anybody
Well, the current government could have called on any or all of the five living former Prime Ministers, all of whom I believe would have done a better job than the incumbent and all of whom could have provided helpful guidance.
For a start, they might actually have turned up to the relevant meetings.
The reality is, Johnson doesn't want to be a leader in a crisis. He wants to be the leader in good times, when we're all more concerned with Love Island and going to the pub.
He was not made for this kind of thing and neither was his Government/cabinet. And it shows.
I felt at the time this broke that this was not what Johnson signed up for. I think he imagined himself spending the next 5 years doling out largesse to the adoring new Tory voters in the North and Midlands. Things are now going to be very different indeed.
The absolute inevitability of SNP most seats is what drives Tory tactics in focusing on indepdence. What is the point in spending a lot of time developing a better policy on education when there is no chance of being the government? What they are seeking to do is consolidate enough of the Unionist vote to prevent an SNP majority and thus, hopefully, prevent a second referendum (subject to the little green helpers, of course).
Whilst I understand the logic of that it is a mistake. Scotland has not had an actual policy choice since 2007. In that 13 years we have had the truly disastrous Curriculum for Excellence imposed in our schools with the inevitable consequences in our PISA ranking, we have the insane position of still offering free University education to EU citizens at a time when funded places for Scots are being restricted, we have had the shambolic and ongoing embarrassment that is Police Scotland, we have had an ever more centralised and unaccountable concentration of power in the likes of the Care Commission, stripping local government of powers and budget, I really could go on and on. As someone actively interested in politics I genuinely don't know what the Tories or Labour are proposing in relation to these failures. It's not good enough. Scotland needs a proper choice.
Which is part of why I back Scottish independence as the best thing for Scotland.
It is only once the independence issue is over and done with that Scotland can get mature, grown up politics back.
I am British. I would be stripped of my national identity if that were to happen. I will do all I can to stop it.
Good man. I feel the same way.
I am English but love Scotland - I lived there for six years as a child - and feel it's part of our UK.
I would be so upset if it left. It's the emotional connections that mean so much to me.
British identity is already dead. The country is possessed by an English nationalism that regards all other identities as invalid.
Not amongst all of us it isn't.
I almost feel sorry for you because you’re so oblivious. But you chose to throw yourself in with a movement that militantly rejects other views of identity, branding them traitors and quislings, and telling them just to suck it up.
And then you wonder why the concept of an inclusive Britishness is now purely historical.
I see your tourettes has returned.
You think you can just divide the nation in two, impose the most extreme version of your preferred outcome riding roughshod over your opponents without wrecking any sense of common purpose? I realised that Leavers were fantasists but we’re now approaching fairytales.
Is this graph correcf fie the UK? We dont record total active cases do we? It seems wrong.
I'm not sure on the accuracy of that chart (the UK seems to have come down faster than that) but that looks rather like the UK has "flattened the curve". The flatten the curve graphs shared massively before lockdown had the no flattening one being steeply up then steeply down while the flattened curve one was up but to a lower peak then coming down much slower and with a longer tail than without flattening.
The UK is almost unique in failing to record the number of recovered so any chart of active cases can only go down if people die. Its absurd and I don't understand why we do not record this information which is surely essential if we need to know how close to herd immunity we are getting.
Presumably because we don't have the foggiest how many have recovered as they'll be recovering at home and not reporting that?
If we need to know how close to herd immunity we are we need to know how many people have actually had it - not how many of those who've said they had it since say they don't anymore.
I think the UK and especially the US are going to be pretty fucked. They're doing the same thing Japan did in mid-March: Cases flattened off a bit, the government sends mixed messages, so people start to end their response unilaterally. Except whereas Japan was doing this from a base of 1000 cases, the UK is doing it from 200,000 cases, and the US 1.2 million.
You end up with a new spike, a load more dead people, and you've blown away the effect of the lockdown and you have to start the whole thing again.
I am of the opinion that with the best will in the world any UK government would have struggled with testing, PPE supply and as the lockdown was such a big judgement call, I can even understand why that was held off until after the last minute.
The chaotic mixed messaging since Wednesday is truly shambolic and can be laid directly at Boris' door.
The mixed messaging isn’t coming from government though, it’s coming from media desperate to bounce the government into easing the restrictions (while simultaneously complaining about the number of cases being too high).
Do you think there is clear message coming from this government? It seems to me to be more like an uncoordinated rabble. This is not surprising, since the Conservative Party nowadays is an unholy alliance of conflicting interests.
Anyone who doesn't understand the messages from the Government is as dim as Beth Rigby
People understood the government's messages in Thursday's papers.
That's why they spent the next two days relaxing in the park.
And then you wonder why the concept of an inclusive Britishness is now purely historical.
This discussion shows why a federal UK is the only way forward. In America, you can be from Illinois or Wyoming, and be American. And proud of your city and county (e pluribus unum, etc.). In Germany, you can be a Saxon or Hamburger and still be German. There are fairly clearly demarcated lines between the two, and though there are often tensions, there are clear mechanisms for resolving those tensions (Supreme Court in the US, the Constitutional Court in Germany, etc.).
But because we have been fudging the questions of the difference between Englishness and Britishness since Blair gave Scotland its Parliament, it's a constant tension here, and there is no clear way to resolve it.
The absolute inevitability of SNP most seats is what drives Tory tactics in focusing on indepdence. What is the point in spending a lot of time developing a better policy on education when there is no chance of being the government? What they are seeking to do is consolidate enough of the Unionist vote to prevent an SNP majority and thus, hopefully, prevent a second referendum (subject to the little green helpers, of course).
Whilst I understand the logic of that it is a mistake. Scotland has not had an actual policy choice since 2007. In that 13 years we have had the truly disastrous Curriculum for Excellence imposed in our schools with the inevitable consequences in our PISA ranking, we have the insane position of still offering free University education to EU citizens at a time when funded places for Scots are being restricted, we have had the shambolic and ongoing embarrassment that is Police Scotland, we have had an ever more centralised and unaccountable concentration of power in the likes of the Care Commission, stripping local government of powers and budget, I really could go on and on. As someone actively interested in politics I genuinely don't know what the Tories or Labour are proposing in relation to these failures. It's not good enough. Scotland needs a proper choice.
Which is part of why I back Scottish independence as the best thing for Scotland.
It is only once the independence issue is over and done with that Scotland can get mature, grown up politics back.
I am British. I would be stripped of my national identity if that were to happen. I will do all I can to stop it.
Good man. I feel the same way.
I am English but love Scotland - I lived there for six years as a child - and feel it's part of our UK.
I would be so upset if it left. It's the emotional connections that mean so much to me.
British identity is already dead. The country is possessed by an English nationalism that regards all other identities as invalid.
Not amongst all of us it isn't.
I almost feel sorry for you because you’re so oblivious. But you chose to throw yourself in with a movement that militantly rejects other views of identity, branding them traitors and quislings, and telling them just to suck it up.
And then you wonder why the concept of an inclusive Britishness is now purely historical.
You're a lot more persuasive when you dont act like this you know. Extremely persuasive in fact, it can be hard to disagree even when people would like to, which always makes me wonder why you deliberately act unpersuasively at other times. Why would someone choose to communicate in an ineffective way when they are able to be so much more effective? I can only assume it's for the fun of it.
My friends overseas are amazed at the bog we're apparently making of it. Laughing stock is one description.
Very few people I know are laughing about this.
I think that was a turn of phrase rather than meant to be taken literally. The fact is that the UK is being pointed to around the world as a failure in its response to Covid-19.
Charles has a bit of a habit of over-reacting to phrases such as that. I understood what you meant and agree with you too.
It`s designed to be woolly - to tacitly urge people out of their hidey holes whilst providing the government with some cover from critics who are poised to accuse it of talking risks.
Witness Starmer`s absurd question at PMQs and Johnson`s pathetic response.
The absolute inevitability of SNP most seats is what drives Tory tactics in focusing on indepdence. What is the point in spending a lot of time developing a better policy on education when there is no chance of being the government? What they are seeking to do is consolidate enough of the Unionist vote to prevent an SNP majority and thus, hopefully, prevent a second referendum (subject to the little green helpers, of course).
Whilst I understand the logic of that it is a mistake. Scotland has not had an actual policy choice since 2007. In that 13 years we have had the truly disastrous Curriculum for Excellence imposed in our schools with the inevitable consequences in our PISA ranking, we have the insane position of still offering free University education to EU citizens at a time when funded places for Scots are being restricted, we have had the shambolic and ongoing embarrassment that is Police Scotland, we have had an ever more centralised and unaccountable concentration of power in the likes of the Care Commission, stripping local government of powers and budget, I really could go on and on. As someone actively interested in politics I genuinely don't know what the Tories or Labour are proposing in relation to these failures. It's not good enough. Scotland needs a proper choice.
Which is part of why I back Scottish independence as the best thing for Scotland.
It is only once the independence issue is over and done with that Scotland can get mature, grown up politics back.
I am British. I would be stripped of my national identity if that were to happen. I will do all I can to stop it.
Good man. I feel the same way.
I am English but love Scotland - I lived there for six years as a child - and feel it's part of our UK.
I would be so upset if it left. It's the emotional connections that mean so much to me.
British identity is already dead. The country is possessed by an English nationalism that regards all other identities as invalid.
Not amongst all of us it isn't.
I almost feel sorry for you because you’re so oblivious. But you chose to throw yourself in with a movement that militantly rejects other views of identity, branding them traitors and quislings, and telling them just to suck it up.
And then you wonder why the concept of an inclusive Britishness is now purely historical.
You're a lot more persuasive when you dont act like this you know. Extremely persuasive in fact, it can be hard to disagree even when people would like to, which always makes me wonder why you deliberately act unpersuasively at other times. Why would someone choose to communicate in an ineffective way when they are able to be so much more effective? I can only assume it's for the fun of it.
The nut nuts who backed and back Brexit - who regard the only true Brexit as the one that causes the most damage, that have no interest in addressing any of the concerns of their opponents and indeed see their alienation as a vindication - are not people who I would be interested in persuading, nor would it be a profitable use of my time to try.
I note that all you can do is bleat that you don’t like my tone. Try explaining how you think I’m wrong rather than mewling like a scalded cat.
Why on earth is the government apparently obsessing about slogans rather than actual practical measures?
That's a very silly comment. Communication is extremely important, and getting across key messages has rightly been a focal point of praise and criticism because of that. The stay at home slogan as you call it worked very well reinforced by policy but voluntary compliance was key.
It's also possible to think about a slogan and of other things.
Stay alert is not the greatest effort, as mr meeks notes being alert is not a major issue. I take the point about new message for new phase but I think it could wait.
Comments
“I keep up with all of the events in the UK on line – so am aware of what a mess the politicians have made of this – both with dealing with the epidemic, and with their reluctance to understand risk, and the result of this on the economy long term.
People love the state paying them not to work – but this is totally untenable and must come to an end very shortly. The amount of money being borrowed and printed by the government is truly staggering – your kids will spend half their working lives paying this debt off – it must stop and now.
No one will be travelling with the two week quarantine on the return to the UK in place – and a lot of countries have the two week quarantine on arrivals – so a two week holiday is actually a six week one – not going to happen.
We do not have it around here – but they do in Cebu City some way away – so the police have quarantined the City – no one allowed in or out – and as they are armed it is successful. There are travel restrictions in place here – so we can go down to Danao city – but you need a household pass – we have one – so no real issue. The tradesmen, such as the aircon/roofers/plumbers/electricians, come from Cebu – so my internal build has slowed down – but the travel restrictions are due to be lifted on the 15th May.”
I'm thinking that at some point the stroppy teenager act is going to wear thin. All that whining and door slamming might just cause the UK government to decide to give them some adult responsibility.
In particular I am thinking changes to taxation could be a useful tool. If, say, as part of a package of tax changes to cope with the after-corona landscape, the UK regions were forced to become more self sufficient in revenue collecting? Suddenly no more blaming daddy for their stingy allowance.
I do find the older I get the more I understand what my parents went through...
https://twitter.com/martinboon/status/1259391373293297665?s=21
The government are in a proper bind.
People all over the place are 'relaxing the lockdown'.
They're just scared of others doing it (not them).
From his memoirs on the day he became Prime Minister:
‘As I went to bed at about 3am, I was conscious of a profound sense of relief. At last I had the authority to give directions over the whole scene. I felt as if I were walking with destiny and that all my past life had been but a preparation for this hour and this trial.’
A Salmond inspired breakaway of a different nationalist party? I would put that at less than 50/1. A palace coup removing Sturgeon by the likes of Cherry? Not even 50/1. An all conquering Tory party? You just have to type it to see how absurd that is.
On a very good day I can see the Tories getting close to 30% and the SNP down to 35%. My wildest dreams don't go further than that.
"Half of those in work are content to be stuck indoors indefinitely if their company still pays them or they get 80 per cent of their salary under the government’s furlough scheme."
Our populist government is in a trap of it`s own devising. It wants to ease drawdown with public support - but support for easing lockdown will not happen while people are paid to stay at home.
The 'lockdown as long as it takes' contingent are bouncing around in the 25-35% box, and I bet they disproportionately include the financially secure, retired and those with homes with gardens.
There is no scenario under which the SNP will ever take responsibility for any failing in Scotland.
It doesn't say what you think it does.
No timeline for this kicking out from the nuptial bed of course. Must have learned something from your previous 417 failed predictions.
She couldn’t blame that on London if she had publicly said she was keeping it in place for epidemiological reasons, although she would undoubtedly try as you say.
How can anyone judge they are competent based on two PMQ appearances by Starmer?
As for the shadow cabinet, with a couple of exceptions their competence level is unknown.
She'd still do it though and her base would lap it up.
Whilst I understand the logic of that it is a mistake. Scotland has not had an actual policy choice since 2007. In that 13 years we have had the truly disastrous Curriculum for Excellence imposed in our schools with the inevitable consequences in our PISA ranking, we have the insane position of still offering free University education to EU citizens at a time when funded places for Scots are being restricted, we have had the shambolic and ongoing embarrassment that is Police Scotland, we have had an ever more centralised and unaccountable concentration of power in the likes of the Care Commission, stripping local government of powers and budget, I really could go on and on. As someone actively interested in politics I genuinely don't know what the Tories or Labour are proposing in relation to these failures. It's not good enough. Scotland needs a proper choice.
However, they do want to be able to see very close friends and family. The rest they can live with. They are largely ignorant or indifferent to the long-term economic effects so long as they don't have to bear the costs.
Their behaviour bears this out.
It is only once the independence issue is over and done with that Scotland can get mature, grown up politics back.
Everyone knows it's bollocks (absolute lockdown) they just don't trust others to do it properly.
They trust themselves absolutely.
I am English but love Scotland - I lived there for six years as a child - and feel it's part of our UK.
I would be so upset if it left. It's the emotional connections that mean so much to me.
Boris fans can rightly claim we are not the worst European nation per capita (yet) or other countries don't count this or that or are underreporting the figures but none of that will matter if the narrative takes hold that we have done the worst in Europe. I think that narrative is well on the way to become the conventional wisdom.
Boris had better hope that the end of the Brexit transition is handled successfully or his government is going to be well and truly stuck with the incompetence tag.
I honestly can't think of anybody
https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1259409782244552704
*not very likely
That the identity may not be strong enough with enough people to preserve the union may be true but that's not the same thing.
That's why they spent the next two days relaxing in the park.
And then you wonder why the concept of an inclusive Britishness is now purely historical.
According to the BND: 'On January 21, China's leader Xi Jinping asked WHO chief Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus to hold back information about a human-to-human transmission and to delay a pandemic warning.
I think that was a turn of phrase rather than meant to be taken literally. The fact is that the UK is being pointed to around the world as a failure in its response to Covid-19.
For a start, they might actually have turned up to the relevant meetings.
I felt at the time this broke that this was not what Johnson signed up for. I think he imagined himself spending the next 5 years doling out largesse to the adoring new Tory voters in the North and Midlands. Things are now going to be very different indeed.
If we need to know how close to herd immunity we are we need to know how many people have actually had it - not how many of those who've said they had it since say they don't anymore.
https://twitter.com/SophyRidgeSky/status/1259412438153379840
People are now on a blame-game bandwagon. The slogan is fine for the next phase of getting us out of lockdown.
But because we have been fudging the questions of the difference between Englishness and Britishness since Blair gave Scotland its Parliament, it's a constant tension here, and there is no clear way to resolve it.
Witness Starmer`s absurd question at PMQs and Johnson`s pathetic response.
Actually, on the former they've demonstrated that they haven't a clue.
Save lives.
Protect the NHS.
I note that all you can do is bleat that you don’t like my tone. Try explaining how you think I’m wrong rather than mewling like a scalded cat.
It's also possible to think about a slogan and of other things.
Stay alert is not the greatest effort, as mr meeks notes being alert is not a major issue. I take the point about new message for new phase but I think it could wait.