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  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676
    tlg86 said:

    SKS open goal with Panorama highlighting the many PPE failings.

    Misses

    Its a throw in

    https://order-order.com/2020/04/29/hancock-slams-panorama-communist-union-organiser-boasts-recruited-participants/
    And yet none of the PPE statistics or facts quoted in the programme are disputed.

    We had a critically low stock of gowns but bought none for our stockpile
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205

    1.6 million Brits have returned from abroad since Covid began - almost all on commercial flights - in the last month 200,000 from Spain and 50,000 from Australia. 19,000 Cruise ship Brits have returned home.

    Air traffic passenger numbers in the UK are now down 99% since this time last year - bloke on R4
    The airline industry has reaped what it'll sow.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    SKS open goal with Panorama highlighting the many PPE failings.

    Misses

    Its a throw in

    I did worry that about Starmer (and I he's clearly a very intelligent principled guy) is that he's just dull. No ones going to go over the top for him, he's not going to get anyone every fired up and inspired.

    He also seems to lack the 'common touch' of emotion and connectivity. He just doesn't 'move' you.
    People used to say that about Major and he (just about) managed to win in 1992. Admittedly 1997 wasn't so great but the Tory party's problems went far beyond their leader in the intervening 5 years.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited April 2020
    445 new deaths in England. Not many historic cases in those numbers.

    Last 3 days 96, 148, 42
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720
    Cyclefree said:

    tlg86 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    tlg86 said:

    Cyclefree said:
    I'm I the only one that had a horrible thought when reading this question?
    Which was?
    We won't be needing quite so many...
    Ah.

    I think even in a post Covid world people will still get old and frail and require care. Unless we all start looking after our elderly relatives ourselves rather than farming them out to strangers.
    There were 841,580 in Social care last year according to the Kings fund. Even if circa 20 000 have died so far as seems likely, it is not a big drop.

    I would have thought the biggest drop in overseas employment would be in hotels and other hospitality. A lot will head for home when those businesses shut down, and the prospect of 14 days in quarantine any time they want to visit family will keep them away.
  • TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052
    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Yes, on reflection he’s right. It looks like they’ve beaten it without entirely shagging their economy (tho they will still take a hit because of their export dependency)

    Even more interesting, maybe, is their ICU performance. They haven’t reached capacity, despite having even fewer beds per capita, at the start, than the UK

    In theory their laxer approach should have seen hospitals rammed as bad as Lombardy or Madrid. If not worse.
    This is the most confusing aspect of all of this. Italy crashed, Spain crashed, NYC crashed, Paris crashed. We didn't, despite lower capacity (Ferguson said two hospitals in London hit absolute max for a day or two, but that was it), and Sweden despite having even lower than UK have managed fine.

    I haven't heard anybody give a good reason why. There is no evidence of Boris the Butcher ripping away CPAP masks or ventilators from fit oldies, in the way the Italians had to do. But we have had deaths in the same range as a country / city, whose healthcare system had crashed.
    Yes, the mysteries and anomalies multiply.

    Look at the serious/critical cases column, here.

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

    The UK is by a distance the best performing large European country. France, for example, has three times as many ICU beds in operation

    Why? Are obese Brits just dying quicker, vacating beds? Are braver Brits choosing to suffer stoically at home?

    Once this is done, god willing, the data crunching and analysis will be fascinating, albeit macabre
    Germany, Sweden and some parts of Uk > Italy, Spain, France , Belgium.

    Adolf would have had a field day.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,139
    eadric said:

    SKS open goal with Panorama highlighting the many PPE failings.

    Misses

    Its a throw in

    I did worry that about Starmer (and I he's clearly a very intelligent principled guy) is that he's just dull. No ones going to go over the top for him, he's not going to get anyone every fired up and inspired.

    He also seems to lack the 'common touch' of emotion and connectivity. He just doesn't 'move' you.
    He is literally the dullest politician in a generation. I can’t remember anyone more boring. He makes David Miliband look like Gabrielle d’Annunzio.

    Ne me frego
    He is Labour's John Major minus Edwina and with an Oxford degree
  • NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,375

    SKS open goal with Panorama highlighting the many PPE failings.

    Misses

    Its a throw in

    I did worry that about Starmer (and I he's clearly a very intelligent principled guy) is that he's just dull. No ones going to go over the top for him, he's not going to get anyone every fired up and inspired.

    He also seems to lack the 'common touch' of emotion and connectivity. He just doesn't 'move' you.
    He was totally the wrong choice to face Boris, Labour needed someone different and interesting and Starmer is simply not that. He is a boring lawyer. As least Corbyn was interesting.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Pulpstar said:

    1.6 million Brits have returned from abroad since Covid began - almost all on commercial flights - in the last month 200,000 from Spain and 50,000 from Australia. 19,000 Cruise ship Brits have returned home.

    Air traffic passenger numbers in the UK are now down 99% since this time last year - bloke on R4
    The airline industry has reaped what it'll sow.
    I have no problems with any British-domiciled, British tax-paying airlines getting long-term low-interest loans as a form of State Aid to get through this once in a century pandemic.

    I can't see it costing the Exchequer anything.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226
    TGOHF666 said:

    kinabalu said:

    eadric said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Yes, on reflection he’s right. It looks like they’ve beaten it without entirely shagging their economy (tho they will still take a hit because of their export dependency)

    Even more interesting, maybe, is their ICU performance. They haven’t reached capacity, despite having even fewer beds per capita, at the start, than the UK

    In theory their laxer approach should have seen hospitals rammed as bad as Lombardy or Madrid. If not worse.
    Does not seem to compute. If Sweden has lower ICU capacity but higher Covid-19 incidence than us, why has their health system not struggled to cope?
    Better genes.
    So if we swap populations we could have done a Sweden and they would have had to do a lockdown?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,225
    eadric said:

    SKS open goal with Panorama highlighting the many PPE failings.

    Misses

    Its a throw in

    I did worry that about Starmer (and I he's clearly a very intelligent principled guy) is that he's just dull. No ones going to go over the top for him, he's not going to get anyone every fired up and inspired.

    He also seems to lack the 'common touch' of emotion and connectivity. He just doesn't 'move' you.
    He is literally the dullest politician in a generation. I can’t remember anyone more boring. He makes David Miliband look like Gabrielle d’Annunzio.

    Ne me frego
    Dull can work very well - but only if you have damning evidence to lay before the jury.
    If you just don't have very much to say, then dull becomes excruciating.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,999
    TGOHF666 said:

    kinabalu said:

    eadric said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Yes, on reflection he’s right. It looks like they’ve beaten it without entirely shagging their economy (tho they will still take a hit because of their export dependency)

    Even more interesting, maybe, is their ICU performance. They haven’t reached capacity, despite having even fewer beds per capita, at the start, than the UK

    In theory their laxer approach should have seen hospitals rammed as bad as Lombardy or Madrid. If not worse.
    Does not seem to make sense. If Sweden has lower ICU capacity but higher Covid-19 incidence than us, why has their health system not struggled to cope?
    Better genes.

  • MangoMango Posts: 1,019
    Dura_Ace said:



    It's better if he wins because there is going to be a distinct possibility of armed-to-the-teeth civil unrest if he loses.

    Popcorn sales in China boom.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Yes, on reflection he’s right. It looks like they’ve beaten it without entirely shagging their economy (tho they will still take a hit because of their export dependency)

    Even more interesting, maybe, is their ICU performance. They haven’t reached capacity, despite having even fewer beds per capita, at the start, than the UK

    In theory their laxer approach should have seen hospitals rammed as bad as Lombardy or Madrid. If not worse.
    This is the most confusing aspect of all of this. Italy crashed, Spain crashed, NYC crashed, Paris crashed. We didn't, despite lower capacity (Ferguson said two hospitals in London hit absolute max for a day or two, but that was it), and Sweden despite having even lower than UK have managed fine.

    I haven't heard anybody give a good reason why. There is no evidence of Boris the Butcher ripping away CPAP masks or ventilators from fit oldies, in the way the Italians had to do. But we have had deaths in the same range as a country / city, whose healthcare system had crashed.
    Yes, the mysteries and anomalies multiply.

    Look at the serious/critical cases column, here.

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

    The UK is by a distance the best performing large European country. France, for example, has three times as many ICU beds in operation

    Why? Are obese Brits just dying quicker, vacating beds? Are braver Brits choosing to suffer stoically at home?

    Once this is done, god willing, the data crunching and analysis will be fascinating, albeit macabre
    The NHS simply stopped treating other illnesses. Look at the estimates on cancer. Never mind NHS workers. Its the poor wretches dying needlessly of other illnesses whose families deserve 60 grand.
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    edited April 2020
    HYUFD said:
    “The EU and Mexico started the negotiations for this new, modernised agreement in May 2016. They reached an agreement in principle two years later, in April 2018, leaving for further discussion some outstanding technical issues. Those are now fully agreed.“

    So by that metric we should expect a UK-EU FTA in 2023 or thereabouts.
  • TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052
    kinabalu said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    kinabalu said:

    eadric said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Yes, on reflection he’s right. It looks like they’ve beaten it without entirely shagging their economy (tho they will still take a hit because of their export dependency)

    Even more interesting, maybe, is their ICU performance. They haven’t reached capacity, despite having even fewer beds per capita, at the start, than the UK

    In theory their laxer approach should have seen hospitals rammed as bad as Lombardy or Madrid. If not worse.
    Does not seem to compute. If Sweden has lower ICU capacity but higher Covid-19 incidence than us, why has their health system not struggled to cope?
    Better genes.
    So if we swap populations we could have done a Sweden and they would have had to do a lockdown?
    Shrugs. But the virus does seem to work in different ways across the globe.

    Age, population density, air quality seem to have an influence - why not genetics ?
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,317

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Ave_it said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Ave_it said:

    Well done Boris and Carrie

    LOL at all the hard left halfwits posting on here earlier criticising him for not attending PMQs!

    Point of order. That was before the news about the baby was known. Perfectly fine for him to miss PMQs to be with his child. Not fine for him to be back at work and miss crucial aspects of his work if he is not yet well enough to work. He should use his paternity leave to get himself fully well again and then, when he is back at work, he needs to do the key aspects of the job, including PMQs.

    Accountability for the PM is essential in a Parliamentary democracy.
    The reports emanating from government sources of Boris being away from PMQ (and which the hard left halfwits were commenting on) would have been in the knowledge of the (then) imminent birth which couldn't be made public at the time.
    Knowledge which was not known to those commenting who were commenting on here on the basis of what was publicly said, namely that Boris was not yet full fit. Note that when he made his speech on Monday some commented that he seemed not be 100% well. Unsurprisingly.

    Best he gets properly better then returns to work full-time.
    If he's not 100% well then a staged return to work would be entirely appropriate would it not?
    He should concentrate on the key parts of the job, of which PMQs is one, and not bother with photo opportunities and the like.

    That sort of staged return. Not the sort which allows him to do the easy stuff and avoid the important parts.

    And if he is unable to do the job then there is an obvious solution. Being PM is not a sine cure or reward. Not at any time but especially not now.
    I can't recall him taking part in any photo opportunities since he returned to work and if he had then that would be something to criticise.

    Do you accept that at prior times before this that all previous PMs have sometimes considered something else the PM needs to do is more important at that time than PMQs and sent a deputy instead?

    If hypothetically the PM were able to have the energy to attend and give 100% to a COBR meeting or PMQs would you accept that COBR might at this time be the more important choice?
    An interesting choice given Boris's record of attendance at such meetings. Why do you assume it is impossible to schedule a meeting and PMQs so that they don't clash.

    If he cannot manage PMQs or if he can only manage one meeting he's not fit enough to be PM. He should get better and then do the job properly. If he remains incapable for a long time then the issue of whether he should remain PM arises. But we are not there yet. So I hope he uses his paternity leave to get better properly. And when he's back I would want him not to avoid responding to questions in Parliament.
    Its not about meeting clashes, meetings don't just take as long as they take - the PM (quite rightly) can spend hours before and after on preparations and follow-up. If the PM normally spends 8-12 hours a day working but this week is capable of 4 hours then should that 4 hours be spent on 3 hours of preparations for PMQ followed by PMQ or should it be spent on the UK's coronavirus response?

    Absolutely long-term if he was incapable of doing it he shouldn't be PM but short-term if it comes to a choice like that it is not unreasonable to act accordingly.

    Interestingly it seems he's decided not to take paternity leave right now and will take it later this year as he wants to concentrate on the coronavirus response. That's fair enough and does him credit.
    Interesting. Thanks.

    I place a high degree of importance on Parliamentary accountability not least because the technical stuff re how to do testing etc can be handled by others.

    I would give Boris more slack on missing stuff had he not shown - long before this virus struck - that he does not value being held accountable or being put under scrutiny. It's an important reason why I want his feet to be held to the fire now when the consequences of the government's actions are so crucial for the rest of us.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    Pfizer Chief Executive Officer Albert Bourla said on Tuesday a coronavirus vaccine for emergency use could be ready by the autumn and for broader roll out by the end of 2020.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8268277/Pfizer-says-coronavirus-vaccine-ready-fall.html
  • NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,375
    edited April 2020
    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Yes, on reflection he’s right. It looks like they’ve beaten it without entirely shagging their economy (tho they will still take a hit because of their export dependency)

    Even more interesting, maybe, is their ICU performance. They haven’t reached capacity, despite having even fewer beds per capita, at the start, than the UK

    In theory their laxer approach should have seen hospitals rammed as bad as Lombardy or Madrid. If not worse.
    This is the most confusing aspect of all of this. Italy crashed, Spain crashed, NYC crashed, Paris crashed. We didn't, despite lower capacity (Ferguson said two hospitals in London hit absolute max for a day or two, but that was it), and Sweden despite having even lower than UK have managed fine.

    I haven't heard anybody give a good reason why. There is no evidence of Boris the Butcher ripping away CPAP masks or ventilators from fit oldies, in the way the Italians had to do. But we have had deaths in the same range as a country / city, whose healthcare system had crashed.
    Yes, the mysteries and anomalies multiply.

    Look at the serious/critical cases column, here.

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

    The UK is by a distance the best performing large European country. France, for example, has three times as many ICU beds in operation

    Why? Are obese Brits just dying quicker, vacating beds? Are braver Brits choosing to suffer stoically at home?

    Once this is done, god willing, the data crunching and analysis will be fascinating, albeit macabre
    The hospitals are empty situation in the UK is getting more extreme as each day goes by. My wife has just chatted to a nurse at Southampton Hospital and she reckons that they have 80% of their beds empty. Student nurses in their first and second years now have nowhere to complete their placements (which make up 50% of their course) as they cannot go onto Covid wards and local surgeries and standard wards are empty.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,139

    SKS open goal with Panorama highlighting the many PPE failings.

    Misses

    Its a throw in

    I did worry that about Starmer (and I he's clearly a very intelligent principled guy) is that he's just dull. No ones going to go over the top for him, he's not going to get anyone every fired up and inspired.

    He also seems to lack the 'common touch' of emotion and connectivity. He just doesn't 'move' you.
    He was totally the wrong choice to face Boris, Labour needed someone different and interesting and Starmer is simply not that. He is a boring lawyer. As least Corbyn was interesting.
    Corbyn was mad in his views but different and interesting, Boris trounced him.

    Labour could do worse than centrist and dull, as Hollande showed in 2012 after a long period out of power dull can narrowly beat a charismatic conservative even if it falls apart after
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    rpjs said:

    HYUFD said:
    “The EU and Mexico started the negotiations for this new, modernised agreement in May 2016. They reached an agreement in principle two years later, in April 2018, leaving for further discussion some outstanding technical issues.”

    So by that metric we should expect a UK-EU FTA in 2023 or thereabouts.
    That's cool, let's get on with it then.

    Maybe have a couple of years in the meantime on WTO to let things cool since Barnier thinks he can bind us otherwise. Won't be long on WTO on your estimates.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,999
    TGOHF666 said:

    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Yes, on reflection he’s right. It looks like they’ve beaten it without entirely shagging their economy (tho they will still take a hit because of their export dependency)

    Even more interesting, maybe, is their ICU performance. They haven’t reached capacity, despite having even fewer beds per capita, at the start, than the UK

    In theory their laxer approach should have seen hospitals rammed as bad as Lombardy or Madrid. If not worse.
    This is the most confusing aspect of all of this. Italy crashed, Spain crashed, NYC crashed, Paris crashed. We didn't, despite lower capacity (Ferguson said two hospitals in London hit absolute max for a day or two, but that was it), and Sweden despite having even lower than UK have managed fine.

    I haven't heard anybody give a good reason why. There is no evidence of Boris the Butcher ripping away CPAP masks or ventilators from fit oldies, in the way the Italians had to do. But we have had deaths in the same range as a country / city, whose healthcare system had crashed.
    Yes, the mysteries and anomalies multiply.

    Look at the serious/critical cases column, here.

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

    The UK is by a distance the best performing large European country. France, for example, has three times as many ICU beds in operation

    Why? Are obese Brits just dying quicker, vacating beds? Are braver Brits choosing to suffer stoically at home?

    Once this is done, god willing, the data crunching and analysis will be fascinating, albeit macabre
    Germany, Sweden and some parts of Uk > Italy, Spain, France , Belgium.

    Adolf would have had a field day.
    'some parts of Uk'

    Definitely the most weaselly Yoontastic thing that'll be said on here today.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,806
    Ms. Hughes, not sure I agree.

    Pepsi tends to be defined by not being Coke. Better something different than a pale imitation.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226
    HYUFD said:

    eadric said:

    SKS open goal with Panorama highlighting the many PPE failings.

    Misses

    Its a throw in

    I did worry that about Starmer (and I he's clearly a very intelligent principled guy) is that he's just dull. No ones going to go over the top for him, he's not going to get anyone every fired up and inspired.

    He also seems to lack the 'common touch' of emotion and connectivity. He just doesn't 'move' you.
    He is literally the dullest politician in a generation. I can’t remember anyone more boring. He makes David Miliband look like Gabrielle d’Annunzio.

    Ne me frego
    He is Labour's John Major minus Edwina and with an Oxford degree
    So he's John Major in trousers minus Edwina Currie in a skirt?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,225
    Well here's an answer to at least one of the arguments of the vaccine sceptics.

    A SARS-CoV-2 vaccine candidate would likely match all currently circulating strains
    https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.27.064774v1
    The magnitude of the COVID-19 pandemic underscores the urgency for a safe and effective vaccine. Here we analyzed SARS-CoV-2 sequence diversity across 5,700 sequences sampled since December 2019. The Spike protein, which is the target immunogen of most vaccine candidates, showed 93 sites with shared polymorphisms; only one of these mutations was found in more than 1% of currently circulating sequences. The minimal diversity found among SARS-CoV-2 sequences can be explained by drift and bottleneck events as the virus spread away from its original epicenter in Wuhan, China. Importantly, there is little evidence that the virus has adapted to its human host since December 2019. Our findings suggest that a single vaccine should be efficacious against current global strains...
  • TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052

    TGOHF666 said:

    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Yes, on reflection he’s right. It looks like they’ve beaten it without entirely shagging their economy (tho they will still take a hit because of their export dependency)

    Even more interesting, maybe, is their ICU performance. They haven’t reached capacity, despite having even fewer beds per capita, at the start, than the UK

    In theory their laxer approach should have seen hospitals rammed as bad as Lombardy or Madrid. If not worse.
    This is the most confusing aspect of all of this. Italy crashed, Spain crashed, NYC crashed, Paris crashed. We didn't, despite lower capacity (Ferguson said two hospitals in London hit absolute max for a day or two, but that was it), and Sweden despite having even lower than UK have managed fine.

    I haven't heard anybody give a good reason why. There is no evidence of Boris the Butcher ripping away CPAP masks or ventilators from fit oldies, in the way the Italians had to do. But we have had deaths in the same range as a country / city, whose healthcare system had crashed.
    Yes, the mysteries and anomalies multiply.

    Look at the serious/critical cases column, here.

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

    The UK is by a distance the best performing large European country. France, for example, has three times as many ICU beds in operation

    Why? Are obese Brits just dying quicker, vacating beds? Are braver Brits choosing to suffer stoically at home?

    Once this is done, god willing, the data crunching and analysis will be fascinating, albeit macabre
    Germany, Sweden and some parts of Uk > Italy, Spain, France , Belgium.

    Adolf would have had a field day.
    'some parts of Uk'

    Definitely the most weaselly Yoontastic thing that'll be said on here today.
    I meant outside the major cities. Not everything is about Scotland dear.

  • NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,375
    edited April 2020
    HYUFD said:

    SKS open goal with Panorama highlighting the many PPE failings.

    Misses

    Its a throw in

    I did worry that about Starmer (and I he's clearly a very intelligent principled guy) is that he's just dull. No ones going to go over the top for him, he's not going to get anyone every fired up and inspired.

    He also seems to lack the 'common touch' of emotion and connectivity. He just doesn't 'move' you.
    He was totally the wrong choice to face Boris, Labour needed someone different and interesting and Starmer is simply not that. He is a boring lawyer. As least Corbyn was interesting.
    Corbyn was mad in his views but different and interesting, Boris trounced him.

    Labour could do worse than centrist and dull, as Hollande showed in 2012 after a long period out of power dull can narrowly beat a charismatic conservative even if it falls apart after
    But May who is dull did not trounce Corbyn, I can't see the Glastonbury Crowd chanting ooohhh Sir Keir Starmer!
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    Nigelb said:

    eadric said:

    SKS open goal with Panorama highlighting the many PPE failings.

    Misses

    Its a throw in

    I did worry that about Starmer (and I he's clearly a very intelligent principled guy) is that he's just dull. No ones going to go over the top for him, he's not going to get anyone every fired up and inspired.

    He also seems to lack the 'common touch' of emotion and connectivity. He just doesn't 'move' you.
    He is literally the dullest politician in a generation. I can’t remember anyone more boring. He makes David Miliband look like Gabrielle d’Annunzio.

    Ne me frego
    Dull can work very well - but only if you have damning evidence to lay before the jury.
    If you just don't have very much to say, then dull becomes excruciating.
    You would have thought that if dull is going to work against anyone it would be Boris, especially if his gloss is punctured ( @kle4 does that work?) or he is perceived simply to be too big a character to be PM for the circumstances and ends up with people laughing at not with him.

    Charismatic leaders can brush lots off but not some tangible failure, whatever that may be - trailing in last in Europe in C-19, or somesuch who knows.

    In that case, people might be rushing to dull. Don't forget people were in the mood for Boris after....Theresa DULL May.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Cyclefree said:

    isam said:

    Cyclefree said:

    isam said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Ave_it said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Ave_it said:

    Well done Boris and Carrie

    LOL at all the hard left halfwits posting on here earlier criticising him for not attending PMQs!

    Point of order. That was before the news about the baby was known. Perfectly fine for him to miss PMQs to be with his child. Not fine for him to be back at work and miss crucial aspects of his work if he is not yet well enough to work. He should use his paternity leave to get himself fully well again and then, when he is back at work, he needs to do the key aspects of the job, including PMQs.

    Accountability for the PM is essential in a Parliamentary democracy.
    The reports emanating from government sources of Boris being away from PMQ (and which the hard left halfwits were commenting on) would have been in the knowledge of the (then) imminent birth which couldn't be made public at the time.
    Knowledge which was not known to those commenting who were commenting on here on the basis of what was publicly said, namely that Boris was not yet full fit. Note that when he made his speech on Monday some commented that he seemed not be 100% well. Unsurprisingly.

    Best he gets properly better then returns to work full-time.
    If he's not 100% well then a staged return to work would be entirely appropriate would it not?
    He should concentrate on the key parts of the job, of which PMQs is one, and not bother with photo opportunities and the like.

    That sort of staged return. Not the sort which allows him to do the easy stuff and avoid the important parts.

    And if he is unable to do the job then there is an obvious solution. Being PM is not a sine cure or reward. Not at any time but especially not now.
    Takes all sorts. Personally, if someone is recovering from illness I’d give them the easier tasks first. My girlfriend had a C-Section last November, so I made sure she didn’t have to lift anything, and when she did she started on things that were light before moving on to heavier objects.
    Lifting heavy objects is not essential to being a mother. Presumably she holds your baby.

    I have always told my staff to come back to work when they are properly better. Unimportant stuff does not need doing. The important stuff does. That's what they're paid for.
    A baby is quite a heavy object for someone who’s recently had a C-Section to lift. She couldn’t drive for two months, so I did the driving. When she could drive, she started with small journeys rather than lengthy ones. This all seems so obvious. People who are recovering from serious illnesses l/big operations start back to work with lighter workloads whether they’re Adolf Hitler or Mother Theresa
    A mother cannot simply take time off to recover after a difficult birth. Motherhood is not a job like any other. All you are saying re your girlfriend is sensible.

    But in a professional job my view is that people should return when fit and concentrate on the key and important parts of the job. Not come back half ill and dabble at it.

    I would rather Boris had taken more time off then returned than be given guff that he is raring to go and then find that he is not up to it. Paternity leave has come at the right time for him.
    All I can say is, had Corbyn or Starmer been PM and got ill the way Boris did, I wouldn’t give a moments thought to criticising them for do King some lighter background work whilst Nandy or Thornberry did PMQs for a while
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,139

    HYUFD said:

    SKS open goal with Panorama highlighting the many PPE failings.

    Misses

    Its a throw in

    I did worry that about Starmer (and I he's clearly a very intelligent principled guy) is that he's just dull. No ones going to go over the top for him, he's not going to get anyone every fired up and inspired.

    He also seems to lack the 'common touch' of emotion and connectivity. He just doesn't 'move' you.
    He was totally the wrong choice to face Boris, Labour needed someone different and interesting and Starmer is simply not that. He is a boring lawyer. As least Corbyn was interesting.
    Corbyn was mad in his views but different and interesting, Boris trounced him.

    Labour could do worse than centrist and dull, as Hollande showed in 2012 after a long period out of power dull can narrowly beat a charismatic conservative even if it falls apart after
    But May who is dull did not trounce Corbyn
    May did win most seats though and stayed PM, the Tories needed Boris to trounce Corbyn, Labour do not necessarily need charisma to beat Boris
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226
    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Yes, on reflection he’s right. It looks like they’ve beaten it without entirely shagging their economy (tho they will still take a hit because of their export dependency)

    Even more interesting, maybe, is their ICU performance. They haven’t reached capacity, despite having even fewer beds per capita, at the start, than the UK

    In theory their laxer approach should have seen hospitals rammed as bad as Lombardy or Madrid. If not worse.
    This is the most confusing aspect of all of this. Italy crashed, Spain crashed, NYC crashed, Paris crashed. We didn't, despite lower capacity (Ferguson said two hospitals in London hit absolute max for a day or two, but that was it), and Sweden despite having even lower than UK have managed fine.

    I haven't heard anybody give a good reason why. There is no evidence of Boris the Butcher ripping away CPAP masks or ventilators from fit oldies, in the way the Italians had to do. But we have had deaths in the same range as a country / city, whose healthcare system had crashed.
    Yes, the mysteries and anomalies multiply.

    Look at the serious/critical cases column, here.

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

    The UK is by a distance the best performing large European country. France, for example, has three times as many ICU beds in operation

    Why? Are obese Brits just dying quicker, vacating beds? Are braver Brits choosing to suffer stoically at home?

    Once this is done, god willing, the data crunching and analysis will be fascinating, albeit macabre
    The NHS simply stopped treating other illnesses. Look at the estimates on cancer. Never mind NHS workers. Its the poor wretches dying needlessly of other illnesses whose families deserve 60 grand.
    That may be true, but it’s not the point I was making. We have far fewer covid19 cases in ICU than comparable nations. The explanation, whatever it is, would be illuminating
    Perhaps some other nations are trying harder to save people. By which I mean, choosing to invest ICU resource in cases that we are writing off as being too far gone or too old.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited April 2020
    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Yes, on reflection he’s right. It looks like they’ve beaten it without entirely shagging their economy (tho they will still take a hit because of their export dependency)

    Even more interesting, maybe, is their ICU performance. They haven’t reached capacity, despite having even fewer beds per capita, at the start, than the UK

    In theory their laxer approach should have seen hospitals rammed as bad as Lombardy or Madrid. If not worse.
    This is the most confusing aspect of all of this. Italy crashed, Spain crashed, NYC crashed, Paris crashed. We didn't, despite lower capacity (Ferguson said two hospitals in London hit absolute max for a day or two, but that was it), and Sweden despite having even lower than UK have managed fine.

    I haven't heard anybody give a good reason why. There is no evidence of Boris the Butcher ripping away CPAP masks or ventilators from fit oldies, in the way the Italians had to do. But we have had deaths in the same range as a country / city, whose healthcare system had crashed.
    Yes, the mysteries and anomalies multiply.

    Look at the serious/critical cases column, here.

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

    The UK is by a distance the best performing large European country. France, for example, has three times as many ICU beds in operation

    Why? Are obese Brits just dying quicker, vacating beds? Are braver Brits choosing to suffer stoically at home?

    Once this is done, god willing, the data crunching and analysis will be fascinating, albeit macabre
    “The impact of the coronavirus cannot simply be measured by its effect on health. Unsurprisingly, Sweden has been less damaged economically. Personal spending in Denmark is down 66 per cent and in Finland it stands at 70 per cent, compared to only 30 per cent in Sweden. Unemployment claims in Norway are rising four times as fast as those in Sweden. The latter’s overall economy is not expected to slump to nearly the same degree as much of Europe.

    And then there is the issue of so-called herd immunity. Studies at the weekend suggested between 25-40 per cent of Stockholm may have actually already had the virus. It could be up to 60 per cent by late May. In France, it is currently believed to stand at around six per cent.”

    https://www.euronews.com/2020/04/21/analysis-is-sweden-right-in-its-handling-of-covid-19
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    isam said:

    Cyclefree said:

    isam said:

    Cyclefree said:

    isam said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Ave_it said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Ave_it said:

    Well done Boris and Carrie

    LOL at all the hard left halfwits posting on here earlier criticising him for not attending PMQs!

    Point of order. That was before the news about the baby was known. Perfectly fine for him to miss PMQs to be with his child. Not fine for him to be back at work and miss crucial aspects of his work if he is not yet well enough to work. He should use his paternity leave to get himself fully well again and then, when he is back at work, he needs to do the key aspects of the job, including PMQs.

    Accountability for the PM is essential in a Parliamentary democracy.
    The reports emanating from government sources of Boris being away from PMQ (and which the hard left halfwits were commenting on) would have been in the knowledge of the (then) imminent birth which couldn't be made public at the time.
    Knowledge which was not known to those commenting who were commenting on here on the basis of what was publicly said, namely that Boris was not yet full fit. Note that when he made his speech on Monday some commented that he seemed not be 100% well. Unsurprisingly.

    Best he gets properly better then returns to work full-time.
    If he's not 100% well then a staged return to work would be entirely appropriate would it not?
    He should concentrate on the key parts of the job, of which PMQs is one, and not bother with photo opportunities and the like.

    That sort of staged return. Not the sort which allows him to do the easy stuff and avoid the important parts.

    And if he is unable to do the job then there is an obvious solution. Being PM is not a sine cure or reward. Not at any time but especially not now.
    Takes all sorts. Personally, if someone is recovering from illness I’d give them the easier tasks first. My girlfriend had a C-Section last November, so I made sure she didn’t have to lift anything, and when she did she started on things that were light before moving on to heavier objects.
    Lifting heavy objects is not essential to being a mother. Presumably she holds your baby.

    I have always told my staff to come back to work when they are properly better. Unimportant stuff does not need doing. The important stuff does. That's what they're paid for.
    A baby is quite a heavy object for someone who’s recently had a C-Section to lift. She couldn’t drive for two months, so I did the driving. When she could drive, she started with small journeys rather than lengthy ones. This all seems so obvious. People who are recovering from serious illnesses l/big operations start back to work with lighter workloads whether they’re Adolf Hitler or Mother Theresa
    A mother cannot simply take time off to recover after a difficult birth. Motherhood is not a job like any other. All you are saying re your girlfriend is sensible.

    But in a professional job my view is that people should return when fit and concentrate on the key and important parts of the job. Not come back half ill and dabble at it.

    I would rather Boris had taken more time off then returned than be given guff that he is raring to go and then find that he is not up to it. Paternity leave has come at the right time for him.
    All I can say is, had Corbyn or Starmer been PM and got ill the way Boris did, I wouldn’t give a moments thought to criticising them for do King some lighter background work whilst Nandy or Thornberry did PMQs for a while
    Absolutely 100% agreed.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,139

    HYUFD said:

    SKS open goal with Panorama highlighting the many PPE failings.

    Misses

    Its a throw in

    I did worry that about Starmer (and I he's clearly a very intelligent principled guy) is that he's just dull. No ones going to go over the top for him, he's not going to get anyone every fired up and inspired.

    He also seems to lack the 'common touch' of emotion and connectivity. He just doesn't 'move' you.
    He was totally the wrong choice to face Boris, Labour needed someone different and interesting and Starmer is simply not that. He is a boring lawyer. As least Corbyn was interesting.
    Corbyn was mad in his views but different and interesting, Boris trounced him.

    Labour could do worse than centrist and dull, as Hollande showed in 2012 after a long period out of power dull can narrowly beat a charismatic conservative even if it falls apart after
    But May who is dull did not trounce Corbyn, I can't see the Glastonbury Crowd chanting ooohhh Sir Keir Starmer!
    So what, they will still vote for him anyway.

    It is middle class Remain voters who hated Corbyn in London and the South who voted Tory to keep Corbynism out Labour needs, the Glastonbury crowd will vote Labour largely anyway
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,102
    edited April 2020

    tlg86 said:

    SKS open goal with Panorama highlighting the many PPE failings.

    Misses

    Its a throw in

    https://order-order.com/2020/04/29/hancock-slams-panorama-communist-union-organiser-boasts-recruited-participants/
    And yet none of the PPE statistics or facts quoted in the programme are disputed.

    We had a critically low stock of gowns but bought none for our stockpile
    The programme is not acceptable by any reasonable standards of balance and should be investigated by Ofcom. When will the BBC learn

    And as for PPE Germany now admit they are in a crisis of supply
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,225
    edited April 2020
    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    eadric said:

    SKS open goal with Panorama highlighting the many PPE failings.

    Misses

    Its a throw in

    I did worry that about Starmer (and I he's clearly a very intelligent principled guy) is that he's just dull. No ones going to go over the top for him, he's not going to get anyone every fired up and inspired.

    He also seems to lack the 'common touch' of emotion and connectivity. He just doesn't 'move' you.
    He is literally the dullest politician in a generation. I can’t remember anyone more boring. He makes David Miliband look like Gabrielle d’Annunzio.

    Ne me frego
    Dull can work very well - but only if you have damning evidence to lay before the jury.
    If you just don't have very much to say, then dull becomes excruciating.
    You would have thought that if dull is going to work against anyone it would be Boris, especially if his gloss is punctured ( @kle4 does that work?) or he is perceived simply to be too big a character to be PM for the circumstances and ends up with people laughing at not with him.

    Charismatic leaders can brush lots off but not some tangible failure, whatever that may be - trailing in last in Europe in C-19, or somesuch who knows.

    In that case, people might be rushing to dull. Don't forget people were in the mood for Boris after....Theresa DULL May.
    Dull on its own will not do the job.
    Dull plus substance might.

    (And you could tarnish gloss; muddy it; discolour it
    But you'd puncture or scratch, even delaminate, a glossy veneer.)
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,357
    isam said:

    Spending the last half hour reading the last thread knowing that Boris was missing PMQs because his fiancée had just given birth was fabulous!!!!

    How they must hate him!

    Is there anyone who doesn't
  • NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,375
    malcolmg said:

    isam said:

    Spending the last half hour reading the last thread knowing that Boris was missing PMQs because his fiancée had just given birth was fabulous!!!!

    How they must hate him!

    Is there anyone who doesn't
    Many women
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,999
    TGOHF666 said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Yes, on reflection he’s right. It looks like they’ve beaten it without entirely shagging their economy (tho they will still take a hit because of their export dependency)

    Even more interesting, maybe, is their ICU performance. They haven’t reached capacity, despite having even fewer beds per capita, at the start, than the UK

    In theory their laxer approach should have seen hospitals rammed as bad as Lombardy or Madrid. If not worse.
    This is the most confusing aspect of all of this. Italy crashed, Spain crashed, NYC crashed, Paris crashed. We didn't, despite lower capacity (Ferguson said two hospitals in London hit absolute max for a day or two, but that was it), and Sweden despite having even lower than UK have managed fine.

    I haven't heard anybody give a good reason why. There is no evidence of Boris the Butcher ripping away CPAP masks or ventilators from fit oldies, in the way the Italians had to do. But we have had deaths in the same range as a country / city, whose healthcare system had crashed.
    Yes, the mysteries and anomalies multiply.

    Look at the serious/critical cases column, here.

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

    The UK is by a distance the best performing large European country. France, for example, has three times as many ICU beds in operation

    Why? Are obese Brits just dying quicker, vacating beds? Are braver Brits choosing to suffer stoically at home?

    Once this is done, god willing, the data crunching and analysis will be fascinating, albeit macabre
    Germany, Sweden and some parts of Uk > Italy, Spain, France , Belgium.

    Adolf would have had a field day.
    'some parts of Uk'

    Definitely the most weaselly Yoontastic thing that'll be said on here today.
    I meant outside the major cities. Not everything is about Scotland dear.

    I was referring to comparing 'some parts of Uk' favourably to the totality of Italy, Spain, France and Belgium. Weaselly and cowardly.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,357
    kinabalu said:

    eadric said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Yes, on reflection he’s right. It looks like they’ve beaten it without entirely shagging their economy (tho they will still take a hit because of their export dependency)

    Even more interesting, maybe, is their ICU performance. They haven’t reached capacity, despite having even fewer beds per capita, at the start, than the UK

    In theory their laxer approach should have seen hospitals rammed as bad as Lombardy or Madrid. If not worse.
    Does not seem to compute. If Sweden has lower ICU capacity but higher Covid-19 incidence than us, why has their health system not struggled to cope?
    Obviously they treat outside ICU, not all intensive cases get ventilators only a very small amount.
  • NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,375
    Nigelb said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    eadric said:

    SKS open goal with Panorama highlighting the many PPE failings.

    Misses

    Its a throw in

    I did worry that about Starmer (and I he's clearly a very intelligent principled guy) is that he's just dull. No ones going to go over the top for him, he's not going to get anyone every fired up and inspired.

    He also seems to lack the 'common touch' of emotion and connectivity. He just doesn't 'move' you.
    He is literally the dullest politician in a generation. I can’t remember anyone more boring. He makes David Miliband look like Gabrielle d’Annunzio.

    Ne me frego
    Dull can work very well - but only if you have damning evidence to lay before the jury.
    If you just don't have very much to say, then dull becomes excruciating.
    You would have thought that if dull is going to work against anyone it would be Boris, especially if his gloss is punctured ( @kle4 does that work?) or he is perceived simply to be too big a character to be PM for the circumstances and ends up with people laughing at not with him.

    Charismatic leaders can brush lots off but not some tangible failure, whatever that may be - trailing in last in Europe in C-19, or somesuch who knows.

    In that case, people might be rushing to dull. Don't forget people were in the mood for Boris after....Theresa DULL May.
    Dull on its own will not do the job.
    Dull plus substance might.
    Boris got relected in London, people like him
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226
    TGOHF666 said:

    kinabalu said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    kinabalu said:

    eadric said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Yes, on reflection he’s right. It looks like they’ve beaten it without entirely shagging their economy (tho they will still take a hit because of their export dependency)

    Even more interesting, maybe, is their ICU performance. They haven’t reached capacity, despite having even fewer beds per capita, at the start, than the UK

    In theory their laxer approach should have seen hospitals rammed as bad as Lombardy or Madrid. If not worse.
    Does not seem to compute. If Sweden has lower ICU capacity but higher Covid-19 incidence than us, why has their health system not struggled to cope?
    Better genes.
    So if we swap populations we could have done a Sweden and they would have had to do a lockdown?
    Shrugs. But the virus does seem to work in different ways across the globe.

    Age, population density, air quality seem to have an influence - why not genetics ?
    Why not indeed. Are you thinking this is some sort of naughty suggestion?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    justin124 said:

    Ave_it said:

    Well done Boris and Carrie

    LOL at all the hard left halfwits posting on here earlier criticising him for not attending PMQs!

    The early arrival of the Fat Fornocator's latest illegitimate child manages to do him a favour.
    No fan of Boris but you really are a nasty old bigot
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    Shocking moment police officer kicks and hits a 15-year-old drugs suspect in broad daylight in the street as he tried to stop and search him for drugs

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8268777/Shocking-moment-police-officer-kicks-hits-15-year-old-boy-broad-daylight.html

    If the plod keep getting caught doing this, Boris pledge of 20,000 extra will be more like 40,000 new ones required.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,357
    TGOHF666 said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Yes, on reflection he’s right. It looks like they’ve beaten it without entirely shagging their economy (tho they will still take a hit because of their export dependency)

    Even more interesting, maybe, is their ICU performance. They haven’t reached capacity, despite having even fewer beds per capita, at the start, than the UK

    In theory their laxer approach should have seen hospitals rammed as bad as Lombardy or Madrid. If not worse.
    This is the most confusing aspect of all of this. Italy crashed, Spain crashed, NYC crashed, Paris crashed. We didn't, despite lower capacity (Ferguson said two hospitals in London hit absolute max for a day or two, but that was it), and Sweden despite having even lower than UK have managed fine.

    I haven't heard anybody give a good reason why. There is no evidence of Boris the Butcher ripping away CPAP masks or ventilators from fit oldies, in the way the Italians had to do. But we have had deaths in the same range as a country / city, whose healthcare system had crashed.
    Yes, the mysteries and anomalies multiply.

    Look at the serious/critical cases column, here.

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

    The UK is by a distance the best performing large European country. France, for example, has three times as many ICU beds in operation

    Why? Are obese Brits just dying quicker, vacating beds? Are braver Brits choosing to suffer stoically at home?

    Once this is done, god willing, the data crunching and analysis will be fascinating, albeit macabre
    Germany, Sweden and some parts of Uk > Italy, Spain, France , Belgium.

    Adolf would have had a field day.
    'some parts of Uk'

    Definitely the most weaselly Yoontastic thing that'll be said on here today.
    I meant outside the major cities. Not everything is about Scotland dear.

    Who is the fantasist dreamer that thinks UK is the best performer rather than the biggest death levels.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    isam said:

    Cyclefree said:

    isam said:

    Cyclefree said:

    isam said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Ave_it said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Ave_it said:

    Well done Boris and Carrie

    LOL at all the hard left halfwits posting on here earlier criticising him for not attending PMQs!

    Point of order. That was before the news about the baby was known. Perfectly fine for him to miss PMQs to be with his child. Not fine for him to be back at work and miss crucial aspects of his work if he is not yet well enough to work. He should use his paternity leave to get himself fully well again and then, when he is back at work, he needs to do the key aspects of the job, including PMQs.

    Accountability for the PM is essential in a Parliamentary democracy.
    The reports emanating from government sources of Boris being away from PMQ (and which the hard left halfwits were commenting on) would have been in the knowledge of the (then) imminent birth which couldn't be made public at the time.
    Knowledge which was not known to those commenting who were commenting on here on the basis of what was publicly said, namely that Boris was not yet full fit. Note that when he made his speech on Monday some commented that he seemed not be 100% well. Unsurprisingly.

    Best he gets properly better then returns to work full-time.
    If he's not 100% well then a staged return to work would be entirely appropriate would it not?
    He should concentrate on the key parts of the job, of which PMQs is one, and not bother with photo opportunities and the like.

    That sort of staged return. Not the sort which allows him to do the easy stuff and avoid the important parts.

    And if he is unable to do the job then there is an obvious solution. Being PM is not a sine cure or reward. Not at any time but especially not now.
    Takes all sorts. Personally, if someone is recovering from illness I’d give them the easier tasks first. My girlfriend had a C-Section last November, so I made sure she didn’t have to lift anything, and when she did she started on things that were light before moving on to heavier objects.
    Lifting heavy objects is not essential to being a mother. Presumably she holds your baby.

    I have always told my staff to come back to work when they are properly better. Unimportant stuff does not need doing. The important stuff does. That's what they're paid for.
    A baby is quite a heavy object for someone who’s recently had a C-Section to lift. She couldn’t drive for two months, so I did the driving. When she could drive, she started with small journeys rather than lengthy ones. This all seems so obvious. People who are recovering from serious illnesses l/big operations start back to work with lighter workloads whether they’re Adolf Hitler or Mother Theresa
    A mother cannot simply take time off to recover after a difficult birth. Motherhood is not a job like any other. All you are saying re your girlfriend is sensible.

    But in a professional job my view is that people should return when fit and concentrate on the key and important parts of the job. Not come back half ill and dabble at it.

    I would rather Boris had taken more time off then returned than be given guff that he is raring to go and then find that he is not up to it. Paternity leave has come at the right time for him.
    All I can say is, had Corbyn or Starmer been PM and got ill the way Boris did, I wouldn’t give a moments thought to criticising them for do King some lighter background work whilst Nandy or Thornberry did PMQs for a while
    It's been weeks since Boris was fit for office. Today he is either helping to change baby Borisana or recuperating I don't care.

    At this time of all times we need a visible, competent, fit leader pulling all-nighters and then striding out first thing the following morning to face the press with a glint in their eyes.

    Boris is not that.

    It's like waiting for a bus that doesn't seem to be coming. How long before you give up and walk? And did you miss your appointment as a result.

    ( @kle4 comments pls)
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    Nigelb said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    eadric said:

    SKS open goal with Panorama highlighting the many PPE failings.

    Misses

    Its a throw in

    I did worry that about Starmer (and I he's clearly a very intelligent principled guy) is that he's just dull. No ones going to go over the top for him, he's not going to get anyone every fired up and inspired.

    He also seems to lack the 'common touch' of emotion and connectivity. He just doesn't 'move' you.
    He is literally the dullest politician in a generation. I can’t remember anyone more boring. He makes David Miliband look like Gabrielle d’Annunzio.

    Ne me frego
    Dull can work very well - but only if you have damning evidence to lay before the jury.
    If you just don't have very much to say, then dull becomes excruciating.
    You would have thought that if dull is going to work against anyone it would be Boris, especially if his gloss is punctured ( @kle4 does that work?) or he is perceived simply to be too big a character to be PM for the circumstances and ends up with people laughing at not with him.

    Charismatic leaders can brush lots off but not some tangible failure, whatever that may be - trailing in last in Europe in C-19, or somesuch who knows.

    In that case, people might be rushing to dull. Don't forget people were in the mood for Boris after....Theresa DULL May.
    Dull on its own will not do the job.
    Dull plus substance might.

    (And you could tarnish gloss; muddy it; discolour it
    But you'd puncture or scratch, even delaminate, a glossy veneer.)
    Dull vs flamboyant incompetent twat surely has a fighting chance.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    I have a nice new photo to rub it in to all of you who support really skint football clubs.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,357
    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Yes, on reflection he’s right. It looks like they’ve beaten it without entirely shagging their economy (tho they will still take a hit because of their export dependency)

    Even more interesting, maybe, is their ICU performance. They haven’t reached capacity, despite having even fewer beds per capita, at the start, than the UK

    In theory their laxer approach should have seen hospitals rammed as bad as Lombardy or Madrid. If not worse.
    This is the most confusing aspect of all of this. Italy crashed, Spain crashed, NYC crashed, Paris crashed. We didn't, despite lower capacity (Ferguson said two hospitals in London hit absolute max for a day or two, but that was it), and Sweden despite having even lower than UK have managed fine.

    I haven't heard anybody give a good reason why. There is no evidence of Boris the Butcher ripping away CPAP masks or ventilators from fit oldies, in the way the Italians had to do. But we have had deaths in the same range as a country / city, whose healthcare system had crashed.
    Yes, the mysteries and anomalies multiply.

    Look at the serious/critical cases column, here.

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

    The UK is by a distance the best performing large European country. France, for example, has three times as many ICU beds in operation

    Why? Are obese Brits just dying quicker, vacating beds? Are braver Brits choosing to suffer stoically at home?

    Once this is done, god willing, the data crunching and analysis will be fascinating, albeit macabre
    The NHS simply stopped treating other illnesses. Look at the estimates on cancer. Never mind NHS workers. Its the poor wretches dying needlessly of other illnesses whose families deserve 60 grand.
    That may be true, but it’s not the point I was making. We have far fewer covid19 cases in ICU than comparable nations. The explanation, whatever it is, would be illuminating
    They send them to care homes, stupid. Then do not count them in the numbers, nice Tory wheeze.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205

    Shocking moment police officer kicks and hits a 15-year-old drugs suspect in broad daylight in the street as he tried to stop and search him for drugs

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8268777/Shocking-moment-police-officer-kicks-hits-15-year-old-boy-broad-daylight.html

    If the plod keep getting caught doing this, Boris pledge of 20,000 extra will be more like 40,000 new ones required.

    Looks fine to me, the youth was clearly resisting. The kick kept him subdued.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,357

    tlg86 said:

    SKS open goal with Panorama highlighting the many PPE failings.

    Misses

    Its a throw in

    https://order-order.com/2020/04/29/hancock-slams-panorama-communist-union-organiser-boasts-recruited-participants/
    And yet none of the PPE statistics or facts quoted in the programme are disputed.

    We had a critically low stock of gowns but bought none for our stockpile
    The programme is not acceptable by any reasonable standards of balance and should be investigated by Ofcom. When will the BBC learn

    And as for PPE Germany now admit they are in a crisis of supply
    Suppression of the free press, what will Tories think of next. We do not like criticism so shut it down. What next, are the brown shirts being ironed and the boots polished.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676

    tlg86 said:

    SKS open goal with Panorama highlighting the many PPE failings.

    Misses

    Its a throw in

    https://order-order.com/2020/04/29/hancock-slams-panorama-communist-union-organiser-boasts-recruited-participants/
    And yet none of the PPE statistics or facts quoted in the programme are disputed.

    We had a critically low stock of gowns but bought none for our stockpile
    The programme is not acceptable by any reasonable standards of balance and should be investigated by Ofcom. When will the BBC learn

    And as for PPE Germany now admit they are in a crisis of supply
    Another pathetic attempt at deflection

    Whats not acceptable is that the Government advisor who told the Government we had a critical shortage of gowns was ignored and we didnt buy a single one to create a stockpile. Bought not a single visor not a single body bag either.

    Your favorite pastime of blaming everybody else, journalists, broadcasters and anybody else who criticizes the Governments response, rather misses the point.

    Its the Governments job to keep NHS staff safe.

    Its failed hence the minutes silence
  • TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052
    malcolmg said:

    tlg86 said:

    SKS open goal with Panorama highlighting the many PPE failings.

    Misses

    Its a throw in

    https://order-order.com/2020/04/29/hancock-slams-panorama-communist-union-organiser-boasts-recruited-participants/
    And yet none of the PPE statistics or facts quoted in the programme are disputed.

    We had a critically low stock of gowns but bought none for our stockpile
    The programme is not acceptable by any reasonable standards of balance and should be investigated by Ofcom. When will the BBC learn

    And as for PPE Germany now admit they are in a crisis of supply
    Suppression of the free press, .
    If only the BBC were free malc...


  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    malcolmg said:

    tlg86 said:

    SKS open goal with Panorama highlighting the many PPE failings.

    Misses

    Its a throw in

    https://order-order.com/2020/04/29/hancock-slams-panorama-communist-union-organiser-boasts-recruited-participants/
    And yet none of the PPE statistics or facts quoted in the programme are disputed.

    We had a critically low stock of gowns but bought none for our stockpile
    The programme is not acceptable by any reasonable standards of balance and should be investigated by Ofcom. When will the BBC learn

    And as for PPE Germany now admit they are in a crisis of supply
    Suppression of the free press, what will Tories think of next. We do not like criticism so shut it down. What next, are the brown shirts being ironed and the boots polished.
    The program violated regulations on declaring political affiliations. I trust you'd have the same attitude if the BBC launched a hatchet attack on the Scottish government with it turning out a Scottish Conservative organiser had arranged all the 'independent experts' who contributed who turned out all to be Scottish Conservatives?
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    eadric said:

    Nigelb said:

    Well here's an answer to at least one of the arguments of the vaccine sceptics.

    A SARS-CoV-2 vaccine candidate would likely match all currently circulating strains
    https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.27.064774v1
    The magnitude of the COVID-19 pandemic underscores the urgency for a safe and effective vaccine. Here we analyzed SARS-CoV-2 sequence diversity across 5,700 sequences sampled since December 2019. The Spike protein, which is the target immunogen of most vaccine candidates, showed 93 sites with shared polymorphisms; only one of these mutations was found in more than 1% of currently circulating sequences. The minimal diversity found among SARS-CoV-2 sequences can be explained by drift and bottleneck events as the virus spread away from its original epicenter in Wuhan, China. Importantly, there is little evidence that the virus has adapted to its human host since December 2019. Our findings suggest that a single vaccine should be efficacious against current global strains...

    Very good news
    eadric said:

    Nigelb said:

    Well here's an answer to at least one of the arguments of the vaccine sceptics.

    A SARS-CoV-2 vaccine candidate would likely match all currently circulating strains
    https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.27.064774v1
    The magnitude of the COVID-19 pandemic underscores the urgency for a safe and effective vaccine. Here we analyzed SARS-CoV-2 sequence diversity across 5,700 sequences sampled since December 2019. The Spike protein, which is the target immunogen of most vaccine candidates, showed 93 sites with shared polymorphisms; only one of these mutations was found in more than 1% of currently circulating sequences. The minimal diversity found among SARS-CoV-2 sequences can be explained by drift and bottleneck events as the virus spread away from its original epicenter in Wuhan, China. Importantly, there is little evidence that the virus has adapted to its human host since December 2019. Our findings suggest that a single vaccine should be efficacious against current global strains...

    Very good news
    This was circulated by email by New Scientist today:
    https://www.sinobiological.com/research/virus/2019-ncov-antigen

    It appears the N protein is very stable too, more so than the S protein, and that it is highly immunogenic.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,357

    TGOHF666 said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Yes, on reflection he’s right. It looks like they’ve beaten it without entirely shagging their economy (tho they will still take a hit because of their export dependency)

    Even more interesting, maybe, is their ICU performance. They haven’t reached capacity, despite having even fewer beds per capita, at the start, than the UK

    In theory their laxer approach should have seen hospitals rammed as bad as Lombardy or Madrid. If not worse.
    This is the most confusing aspect of all of this. Italy crashed, Spain crashed, NYC crashed, Paris crashed. We didn't, despite lower capacity (Ferguson said two hospitals in London hit absolute max for a day or two, but that was it), and Sweden despite having even lower than UK have managed fine.

    I haven't heard anybody give a good reason why. There is no evidence of Boris the Butcher ripping away CPAP masks or ventilators from fit oldies, in the way the Italians had to do. But we have had deaths in the same range as a country / city, whose healthcare system had crashed.
    Yes, the mysteries and anomalies multiply.

    Look at the serious/critical cases column, here.

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

    The UK is by a distance the best performing large European country. France, for example, has three times as many ICU beds in operation

    Why? Are obese Brits just dying quicker, vacating beds? Are braver Brits choosing to suffer stoically at home?

    Once this is done, god willing, the data crunching and analysis will be fascinating, albeit macabre
    Germany, Sweden and some parts of Uk > Italy, Spain, France , Belgium.

    Adolf would have had a field day.
    'some parts of Uk'

    Definitely the most weaselly Yoontastic thing that'll be said on here today.
    I meant outside the major cities. Not everything is about Scotland dear.

    I was referring to comparing 'some parts of Uk' favourably to the totality of Italy, Spain, France and Belgium. Weaselly and cowardly.
    The unionists always take it as an insult, telling that he immediately assumed Scotland as they always do.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992

    Nigelb said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    eadric said:

    SKS open goal with Panorama highlighting the many PPE failings.

    Misses

    Its a throw in

    I did worry that about Starmer (and I he's clearly a very intelligent principled guy) is that he's just dull. No ones going to go over the top for him, he's not going to get anyone every fired up and inspired.

    He also seems to lack the 'common touch' of emotion and connectivity. He just doesn't 'move' you.
    He is literally the dullest politician in a generation. I can’t remember anyone more boring. He makes David Miliband look like Gabrielle d’Annunzio.

    Ne me frego
    Dull can work very well - but only if you have damning evidence to lay before the jury.
    If you just don't have very much to say, then dull becomes excruciating.
    You would have thought that if dull is going to work against anyone it would be Boris, especially if his gloss is punctured ( @kle4 does that work?) or he is perceived simply to be too big a character to be PM for the circumstances and ends up with people laughing at not with him.

    Charismatic leaders can brush lots off but not some tangible failure, whatever that may be - trailing in last in Europe in C-19, or somesuch who knows.

    In that case, people might be rushing to dull. Don't forget people were in the mood for Boris after....Theresa DULL May.
    Dull on its own will not do the job.
    Dull plus substance might.
    Boris got relected in London, people like him
    He could do a lot less harm as Mayor of London than as PM. But the analogy is there - he beat an out and out lefty whose loyalty to this country was in question, amongst other egregious failings. (Canvassing for BoJo in many parts of north London was one of the easiest gigs I've ever had.)
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,999

    malcolmg said:

    tlg86 said:

    SKS open goal with Panorama highlighting the many PPE failings.

    Misses

    Its a throw in

    https://order-order.com/2020/04/29/hancock-slams-panorama-communist-union-organiser-boasts-recruited-participants/
    And yet none of the PPE statistics or facts quoted in the programme are disputed.

    We had a critically low stock of gowns but bought none for our stockpile
    The programme is not acceptable by any reasonable standards of balance and should be investigated by Ofcom. When will the BBC learn

    And as for PPE Germany now admit they are in a crisis of supply
    Suppression of the free press, what will Tories think of next. We do not like criticism so shut it down. What next, are the brown shirts being ironed and the boots polished.
    The program violated regulations on declaring political affiliations. I trust you'd have the same attitude if the BBC launched a hatchet attack on the Scottish government with it turning out a Scottish Conservative organiser had arranged all the 'independent experts' who contributed who turned out all to be Scottish Conservatives?
    Tbh I thought that was BBC Scotland SOP.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676
    malcolmg said:

    tlg86 said:

    SKS open goal with Panorama highlighting the many PPE failings.

    Misses

    Its a throw in

    https://order-order.com/2020/04/29/hancock-slams-panorama-communist-union-organiser-boasts-recruited-participants/
    And yet none of the PPE statistics or facts quoted in the programme are disputed.

    We had a critically low stock of gowns but bought none for our stockpile
    The programme is not acceptable by any reasonable standards of balance and should be investigated by Ofcom. When will the BBC learn

    And as for PPE Germany now admit they are in a crisis of supply
    Suppression of the free press, what will Tories think of next. We do not like criticism so shut it down. What next, are the brown shirts being ironed and the boots polished.
    Agreed Malc.

    Imagine Tories complaining the media are biased against them when @bbclaurak , Peston and others have been hiding in Boris's Colon for years
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    edited April 2020
    Gilead has announced today at Remdesivir helps COVID patients recover faster than standard care and will be publishing details later.

    rejoice at that news.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205
    More battles than Wrestlemania here today.

    Fight on the right @HYUFD vs Phil Thompson
    Old Firm derby Malc & Uniondivvie vs Flash
    Battle of the big guns : Jon Owls vs G North Wales
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited April 2020

    Gilead has announced today at Remdesivir helps COVID patients recover faster than standard care and will be publishing details later.

    rejoice at that news.

    Gilead Sciences said Wednesday preliminary results of a coronavirus drug trial showed at least 50% of patients treated with a 5-day dosage of antiviral drug remdesivir improved and more than half were discharged from the hospital within two weeks.

    The study tracked two groups of patients who were hospitalized with Covid-19. One group received a 5-day treatment of remdesivir, while the other group took the drug for 10 days. The researchers said more than half of the patients in both treatment groups were discharged from the hospital within 14 days. They said 64.5% of the patients who received the shorter treatment course were discharged, compared with 53.8% of the group who were treated for 10 days.

    https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/29/gilead-reports-positive-data-on-remdesivir-coronavirus-drug-trial.html

    So not a slam-dunk, but more something that medical professionals can try early on to reduce chances of going to really bad stage.
  • malcolmg said:

    tlg86 said:

    SKS open goal with Panorama highlighting the many PPE failings.

    Misses

    Its a throw in

    https://order-order.com/2020/04/29/hancock-slams-panorama-communist-union-organiser-boasts-recruited-participants/
    And yet none of the PPE statistics or facts quoted in the programme are disputed.

    We had a critically low stock of gowns but bought none for our stockpile
    The programme is not acceptable by any reasonable standards of balance and should be investigated by Ofcom. When will the BBC learn

    And as for PPE Germany now admit they are in a crisis of supply
    Suppression of the free press, what will Tories think of next. We do not like criticism so shut it down. What next, are the brown shirts being ironed and the boots polished.
    Not at all. Balanced free press and this weeks panorama was far from that
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,914

    Gilead has announced today at Remdesivir helps COVID patients recover faster than standard care and will be publishing details later.

    rejoice at that news.

    Good, how much is available?
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,729
    OllyT said:

    OllyT said:

    Ave_it said:

    isam said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Ave_it said:

    Well done Boris and Carrie

    LOL at all the hard left halfwits posting on here earlier criticising him for not attending PMQs!

    Point of order. That was before the news about the baby was known. Perfectly fine for him to miss PMQs to be with his child. Not fine for him to be back at work and miss crucial aspects of his work if he is not yet well enough to work. He should use his paternity leave to get himself fully well again and then, when he is back at work, he needs to do the key aspects of the job, including PMQs.

    Accountability for the PM is essential in a Parliamentary democracy.
    The point is they were attacking him for something, based on speculation, that suited their bias - they didn’t know the whole story, as always.
    Doesn't change who we are talking about. A man typified by laziness. Those that criticise him are not somehow disallowed from doing so because he has had yet another child by yet another partner, and that he has recently recovered from illness.
    The hard left on here don't understand anything. They post their drivel on here everyday, anything to do this country and the ordinary people down. Can you imagine what it would be like if Corbyn was running this?
    Except that the alternative would have been a Conservative leader with more gravitas. The Tory membership are responsible for Boris, anyone they chose would have beaten Corbyn in December. The members wanted the most Brexity candidate possible and the real irony is that I doubt Boris is much bothered by Brexit either way other than it providing him with a vehicle to the leadership.
    Yeah because May did such a good job beating Corbyn and a Continuity May option like Hunt would have done well wouldn't they?
    I am talking about who would have done a better job of dealing with this pandemic. You clearly don't believe anyone could have done a better job than Boris. I disagree.

    In a few months time we will know how successful our government has been compared to others. I am content to wait.
    You will not because ots impossible to compare apples and oranges
  • tlg86 said:

    SKS open goal with Panorama highlighting the many PPE failings.

    Misses

    Its a throw in

    https://order-order.com/2020/04/29/hancock-slams-panorama-communist-union-organiser-boasts-recruited-participants/
    And yet none of the PPE statistics or facts quoted in the programme are disputed.

    We had a critically low stock of gowns but bought none for our stockpile
    The programme is not acceptable by any reasonable standards of balance and should be investigated by Ofcom. When will the BBC learn

    And as for PPE Germany now admit they are in a crisis of supply
    Another pathetic attempt at deflection

    Whats not acceptable is that the Government advisor who told the Government we had a critical shortage of gowns was ignored and we didnt buy a single one to create a stockpile. Bought not a single visor not a single body bag either.

    Your favorite pastime of blaming everybody else, journalists, broadcasters and anybody else who criticizes the Governments response, rather misses the point.

    Its the Governments job to keep NHS staff safe.

    Its failed hence the minutes silence
    I am not blaming anyone and you are content to overlook the background of those chosen to contribute but quick to attack Cummings.

    And PPE failings and crisis now in Germany, but of course it is all the fault of Cummings
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    I think English 7 day cumulative deaths are going to settle at 400 per day for a while. The trend doesn't seem to be budging from that baseline.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676

    OllyT said:

    OllyT said:

    Ave_it said:

    isam said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Ave_it said:

    Well done Boris and Carrie

    LOL at all the hard left halfwits posting on here earlier criticising him for not attending PMQs!

    Point of order. That was before the news about the baby was known. Perfectly fine for him to miss PMQs to be with his child. Not fine for him to be back at work and miss crucial aspects of his work if he is not yet well enough to work. He should use his paternity leave to get himself fully well again and then, when he is back at work, he needs to do the key aspects of the job, including PMQs.

    Accountability for the PM is essential in a Parliamentary democracy.
    The point is they were attacking him for something, based on speculation, that suited their bias - they didn’t know the whole story, as always.
    Doesn't change who we are talking about. A man typified by laziness. Those that criticise him are not somehow disallowed from doing so because he has had yet another child by yet another partner, and that he has recently recovered from illness.
    The hard left on here don't understand anything. They post their drivel on here everyday, anything to do this country and the ordinary people down. Can you imagine what it would be like if Corbyn was running this?
    Except that the alternative would have been a Conservative leader with more gravitas. The Tory membership are responsible for Boris, anyone they chose would have beaten Corbyn in December. The members wanted the most Brexity candidate possible and the real irony is that I doubt Boris is much bothered by Brexit either way other than it providing him with a vehicle to the leadership.
    Yeah because May did such a good job beating Corbyn and a Continuity May option like Hunt would have done well wouldn't they?
    I am talking about who would have done a better job of dealing with this pandemic. You clearly don't believe anyone could have done a better job than Boris. I disagree.

    In a few months time we will know how successful our government has been compared to others. I am content to wait.
    You will not because ots impossible to compare apples and oranges
    Rotten apples are easy to spot
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,225
    TimT said:

    eadric said:

    Nigelb said:

    Well here's an answer to at least one of the arguments of the vaccine sceptics.

    A SARS-CoV-2 vaccine candidate would likely match all currently circulating strains
    https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.27.064774v1
    The magnitude of the COVID-19 pandemic underscores the urgency for a safe and effective vaccine. Here we analyzed SARS-CoV-2 sequence diversity across 5,700 sequences sampled since December 2019. The Spike protein, which is the target immunogen of most vaccine candidates, showed 93 sites with shared polymorphisms; only one of these mutations was found in more than 1% of currently circulating sequences. The minimal diversity found among SARS-CoV-2 sequences can be explained by drift and bottleneck events as the virus spread away from its original epicenter in Wuhan, China. Importantly, there is little evidence that the virus has adapted to its human host since December 2019. Our findings suggest that a single vaccine should be efficacious against current global strains...

    Very good news
    eadric said:

    Nigelb said:

    Well here's an answer to at least one of the arguments of the vaccine sceptics.

    A SARS-CoV-2 vaccine candidate would likely match all currently circulating strains
    https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.27.064774v1
    The magnitude of the COVID-19 pandemic underscores the urgency for a safe and effective vaccine. Here we analyzed SARS-CoV-2 sequence diversity across 5,700 sequences sampled since December 2019. The Spike protein, which is the target immunogen of most vaccine candidates, showed 93 sites with shared polymorphisms; only one of these mutations was found in more than 1% of currently circulating sequences. The minimal diversity found among SARS-CoV-2 sequences can be explained by drift and bottleneck events as the virus spread away from its original epicenter in Wuhan, China. Importantly, there is little evidence that the virus has adapted to its human host since December 2019. Our findings suggest that a single vaccine should be efficacious against current global strains...

    Very good news
    This was circulated by email by New Scientist today:
    https://www.sinobiological.com/research/virus/2019-ncov-antigen

    It appears the N protein is very stable too, more so than the S protein, and that it is highly immunogenic.
    No use for vaccines, though, as it's hidden inside the virus.
    Good for diagnostics.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992

    OllyT said:

    OllyT said:

    Ave_it said:

    isam said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Ave_it said:

    Well done Boris and Carrie

    LOL at all the hard left halfwits posting on here earlier criticising him for not attending PMQs!

    Point of order. That was before the news about the baby was known. Perfectly fine for him to miss PMQs to be with his child. Not fine for him to be back at work and miss crucial aspects of his work if he is not yet well enough to work. He should use his paternity leave to get himself fully well again and then, when he is back at work, he needs to do the key aspects of the job, including PMQs.

    Accountability for the PM is essential in a Parliamentary democracy.
    The point is they were attacking him for something, based on speculation, that suited their bias - they didn’t know the whole story, as always.
    Doesn't change who we are talking about. A man typified by laziness. Those that criticise him are not somehow disallowed from doing so because he has had yet another child by yet another partner, and that he has recently recovered from illness.
    The hard left on here don't understand anything. They post their drivel on here everyday, anything to do this country and the ordinary people down. Can you imagine what it would be like if Corbyn was running this?
    Except that the alternative would have been a Conservative leader with more gravitas. The Tory membership are responsible for Boris, anyone they chose would have beaten Corbyn in December. The members wanted the most Brexity candidate possible and the real irony is that I doubt Boris is much bothered by Brexit either way other than it providing him with a vehicle to the leadership.
    Yeah because May did such a good job beating Corbyn and a Continuity May option like Hunt would have done well wouldn't they?
    I am talking about who would have done a better job of dealing with this pandemic. You clearly don't believe anyone could have done a better job than Boris. I disagree.

    In a few months time we will know how successful our government has been compared to others. I am content to wait.
    You will not because ots impossible to compare apples and oranges
    But everyone will. Even your hated "free press".
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited April 2020
    Shocked I tell you, shocked...just change it to 5pm for God's sake.

    https://twitter.com/DHSCgovuk/status/1255489183050797057?s=20
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,999

    malcolmg said:

    tlg86 said:

    SKS open goal with Panorama highlighting the many PPE failings.

    Misses

    Its a throw in

    https://order-order.com/2020/04/29/hancock-slams-panorama-communist-union-organiser-boasts-recruited-participants/
    And yet none of the PPE statistics or facts quoted in the programme are disputed.

    We had a critically low stock of gowns but bought none for our stockpile
    The programme is not acceptable by any reasonable standards of balance and should be investigated by Ofcom. When will the BBC learn

    And as for PPE Germany now admit they are in a crisis of supply
    Suppression of the free press, what will Tories think of next. We do not like criticism so shut it down. What next, are the brown shirts being ironed and the boots polished.
    Not at all. Balanced free press and this weeks panorama was far from that
    What was that Guido thing about addressing the questions rather than attacking the source?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,225
    Indeed; actually the world's largest postcard producer.
    And that's just a fraction of its interests. :smile:
  • TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052

    I have a nice new photo to rub it in to all of you who support really skint football clubs.

    Is it of Mr Khashoggi's mutilated corpse inside the embassy in Turkey ?
  • NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,375
    MaxPB said:

    I think English 7 day cumulative deaths are going to settle at 400 per day for a while. The trend doesn't seem to be budging from that baseline.

    Deaths look like they are down 30% from last week to me
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    As a best guess I'd say around 800 people per day are still dying from COVID everyday in England. This is down from a peak of around 1700 per day in the week of the 8th of April.

    If we manage to stay under 50,000 deaths it will be a surprise. I think the policy of sending people home as soon as symptoms have gone will prove to be the source of a huge proportion of additional deaths that countries who have more sensible policies on this won't have. It will be the difference between 50k deaths in the UK and 35k deaths in France.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,225

    malcolmg said:

    tlg86 said:

    SKS open goal with Panorama highlighting the many PPE failings.

    Misses

    Its a throw in

    https://order-order.com/2020/04/29/hancock-slams-panorama-communist-union-organiser-boasts-recruited-participants/
    And yet none of the PPE statistics or facts quoted in the programme are disputed.

    We had a critically low stock of gowns but bought none for our stockpile
    The programme is not acceptable by any reasonable standards of balance and should be investigated by Ofcom. When will the BBC learn

    And as for PPE Germany now admit they are in a crisis of supply
    Suppression of the free press, what will Tories think of next. We do not like criticism so shut it down. What next, are the brown shirts being ironed and the boots polished.
    Not at all. Balanced free press and this weeks panorama was far from that
    What was that Guido thing about addressing the questions rather than attacking the source?
    That's really a Guido thing ?
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,127
    MaxPB said:

    I think English 7 day cumulative deaths are going to settle at 400 per day for a while. The trend doesn't seem to be budging from that baseline.

    Lockdown isn't going anywhere for a while....
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,225

    Gilead has announced today at Remdesivir helps COVID patients recover faster than standard care and will be publishing details later.

    rejoice at that news.

    Good, how much is available?
    For now, not much - it's an investigational drug not an approved one, so bulk manufacturing is only now in the works.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    TGOHF666 said:

    I have a nice new photo to rub it in to all of you who support really skint football clubs.

    Is it of Mr Khashoggi's mutilated corpse inside the embassy in Turkey ?
    Yeah baby
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,999
    Nigelb said:

    malcolmg said:

    tlg86 said:

    SKS open goal with Panorama highlighting the many PPE failings.

    Misses

    Its a throw in

    https://order-order.com/2020/04/29/hancock-slams-panorama-communist-union-organiser-boasts-recruited-participants/
    And yet none of the PPE statistics or facts quoted in the programme are disputed.

    We had a critically low stock of gowns but bought none for our stockpile
    The programme is not acceptable by any reasonable standards of balance and should be investigated by Ofcom. When will the BBC learn

    And as for PPE Germany now admit they are in a crisis of supply
    Suppression of the free press, what will Tories think of next. We do not like criticism so shut it down. What next, are the brown shirts being ironed and the boots polished.
    Not at all. Balanced free press and this weeks panorama was far from that
    What was that Guido thing about addressing the questions rather than attacking the source?
    That's really a Guido thing ?
    It's a 'I'll take a break from slagging The Canary/Guardian/HuffPo/C4 to post this really important story on Guido' thing.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,729
    TOPPING said:

    OllyT said:

    OllyT said:

    Ave_it said:

    isam said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Ave_it said:

    Well done Boris and Carrie

    LOL at all the hard left halfwits posting on here earlier criticising him for not attending PMQs!

    Point of order. That was before the news about the baby was known. Perfectly fine for him to miss PMQs to be with his child. Not fine for him to be back at work and miss crucial aspects of his work if he is not yet well enough to work. He should use his paternity leave to get himself fully well again and then, when he is back at work, he needs to do the key aspects of the job, including PMQs.

    Accountability for the PM is essential in a Parliamentary democracy.
    The point is they were attacking him for something, based on speculation, that suited their bias - they didn’t know the whole story, as always.
    Doesn't change who we are talking about. A man typified by laziness. Those that criticise him are not somehow disallowed from doing so because he has had yet another child by yet another partner, and that he has recently recovered from illness.
    The hard left on here don't understand anything. They post their drivel on here everyday, anything to do this country and the ordinary people down. Can you imagine what it would be like if Corbyn was running this?
    Except that the alternative would have been a Conservative leader with more gravitas. The Tory membership are responsible for Boris, anyone they chose would have beaten Corbyn in December. The members wanted the most Brexity candidate possible and the real irony is that I doubt Boris is much bothered by Brexit either way other than it providing him with a vehicle to the leadership.
    Yeah because May did such a good job beating Corbyn and a Continuity May option like Hunt would have done well wouldn't they?
    I am talking about who would have done a better job of dealing with this pandemic. You clearly don't believe anyone could have done a better job than Boris. I disagree.

    In a few months time we will know how successful our government has been compared to others. I am content to wait.
    You will not because ots impossible to compare apples and oranges
    But everyone will. Even your hated "free press".
    They will try to.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226
    edited April 2020
    malcolmg said:

    kinabalu said:

    eadric said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Yes, on reflection he’s right. It looks like they’ve beaten it without entirely shagging their economy (tho they will still take a hit because of their export dependency)

    Even more interesting, maybe, is their ICU performance. They haven’t reached capacity, despite having even fewer beds per capita, at the start, than the UK

    In theory their laxer approach should have seen hospitals rammed as bad as Lombardy or Madrid. If not worse.
    Does not seem to compute. If Sweden has lower ICU capacity but higher Covid-19 incidence than us, why has their health system not struggled to cope?
    Obviously they treat outside ICU, not all intensive cases get ventilators only a very small amount.
    News I've just seen is that here in the UK one third of all the people hospitalized with Covid-19 since the start of the outbreak have died. One third! And the figure will end up higher since there are many patients in hospital now who have not yet died but will.

    On this measure - your chances of responding to treatment - the disease is as bad as Ebola.

    Frightening.
  • rpjs said:

    HYUFD said:
    “The EU and Mexico started the negotiations for this new, modernised agreement in May 2016. They reached an agreement in principle two years later, in April 2018, leaving for further discussion some outstanding technical issues. Those are now fully agreed.“

    So by that metric we should expect a UK-EU FTA in 2023 or thereabouts.
    Leaving aside any questions on whether it's realistic to assume that the timeline could be replicated even for that "simple and bare bones" FTA, it might be pertinent to ask what exactly is in that "simple and bare bones" FTA and what exactly it will deliver.

    Would it be possible for Airbus to manufacture airplane wings in Wales, or for car manufacturers to produce components in the UK, and move these things across the borders in the context of just-in-time supply lines? No.
    Would that FTA allow the chemical, pharma, tech, services industries to sell their goods and services across the borders? No.
    Would that FTA allow British farmers and fishermen to export their products to the EU? No.

    The kind of FTA to make any of that possible would be neither "simple" nor "bare bones" and would presumably require much more time, and, of course, a much, much higher level of regulatory alignment, with all that entails, to be negotiated.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,370

    MaxPB said:

    I think English 7 day cumulative deaths are going to settle at 400 per day for a while. The trend doesn't seem to be budging from that baseline.

    Deaths look like they are down 30% from last week to me
    In general, the trend in the numbers is that the bulk of daily number is the day before. So for today

    28th 96
    27th 148
    26th 42

    etc

    148 is the lowest this has been in a long time
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    malcolmg said:

    tlg86 said:

    SKS open goal with Panorama highlighting the many PPE failings.

    Misses

    Its a throw in

    https://order-order.com/2020/04/29/hancock-slams-panorama-communist-union-organiser-boasts-recruited-participants/
    And yet none of the PPE statistics or facts quoted in the programme are disputed.

    We had a critically low stock of gowns but bought none for our stockpile
    The programme is not acceptable by any reasonable standards of balance and should be investigated by Ofcom. When will the BBC learn

    And as for PPE Germany now admit they are in a crisis of supply
    Suppression of the free press, what will Tories think of next. We do not like criticism so shut it down. What next, are the brown shirts being ironed and the boots polished.
    Agreed Malc.

    Imagine Tories complaining the media are biased against them when @bbclaurak , Peston and others have been hiding in Boris's Colon for years
    LOL I know the far left hate LauraK because she didn't drink the Corbynite Kool Aid but Peston? Peston? Gordon Brown's chief media lackey and never been shy to show his Labour colours Peston?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,357
    TGOHF666 said:
    How would we ever know it is first time in the UK given they fiddle the numbers in England and never include them , you have to try and unpick them a month later from ONS. Easy fiddle rather than take it on the chin as Boris said.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720
    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    eadric said:

    SKS open goal with Panorama highlighting the many PPE failings.

    Misses

    Its a throw in

    I did worry that about Starmer (and I he's clearly a very intelligent principled guy) is that he's just dull. No ones going to go over the top for him, he's not going to get anyone every fired up and inspired.

    He also seems to lack the 'common touch' of emotion and connectivity. He just doesn't 'move' you.
    He is literally the dullest politician in a generation. I can’t remember anyone more boring. He makes David Miliband look like Gabrielle d’Annunzio.

    Ne me frego
    Dull can work very well - but only if you have damning evidence to lay before the jury.
    If you just don't have very much to say, then dull becomes excruciating.
    You would have thought that if dull is going to work against anyone it would be Boris, especially if his gloss is punctured ( @kle4 does that work?) or he is perceived simply to be too big a character to be PM for the circumstances and ends up with people laughing at not with him.

    Charismatic leaders can brush lots off but not some tangible failure, whatever that may be - trailing in last in Europe in C-19, or somesuch who knows.

    In that case, people might be rushing to dull. Don't forget people were in the mood for Boris after....Theresa DULL May.
    Dull on its own will not do the job.
    Dull plus substance might.

    (And you could tarnish gloss; muddy it; discolour it
    But you'd puncture or scratch, even delaminate, a glossy veneer.)
    Dull vs flamboyant incompetent twat surely has a fighting chance.
    Not really. We are beyond the point of wanting dull competence in our leaders.

    In the attention deficit modern world, with media both old and new shouting to try to get attention, flamboyant incompetence wins every time electorally.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468

    MaxPB said:

    I think English 7 day cumulative deaths are going to settle at 400 per day for a while. The trend doesn't seem to be budging from that baseline.

    Deaths look like they are down 30% from last week to me
    In general, the trend in the numbers is that the bulk of daily number is the day before. So for today

    28th 96
    27th 148
    26th 42

    etc

    148 is the lowest this has been in a long time
    What does this suggest?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,357

    malcolmg said:

    tlg86 said:

    SKS open goal with Panorama highlighting the many PPE failings.

    Misses

    Its a throw in

    https://order-order.com/2020/04/29/hancock-slams-panorama-communist-union-organiser-boasts-recruited-participants/
    And yet none of the PPE statistics or facts quoted in the programme are disputed.

    We had a critically low stock of gowns but bought none for our stockpile
    The programme is not acceptable by any reasonable standards of balance and should be investigated by Ofcom. When will the BBC learn

    And as for PPE Germany now admit they are in a crisis of supply
    Suppression of the free press, what will Tories think of next. We do not like criticism so shut it down. What next, are the brown shirts being ironed and the boots polished.
    The program violated regulations on declaring political affiliations. I trust you'd have the same attitude if the BBC launched a hatchet attack on the Scottish government with it turning out a Scottish Conservative organiser had arranged all the 'independent experts' who contributed who turned out all to be Scottish Conservatives?
    Tbh I thought that was BBC Scotland SOP.
    The BBC do it in Scotland on a daily basis and get away with it as it is Westminster pulling the strings.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,729
    TOPPING said:

    OllyT said:

    OllyT said:

    Ave_it said:

    isam said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Ave_it said:

    Well done Boris and Carrie

    LOL at all the hard left halfwits posting on here earlier criticising him for not attending PMQs!

    Point of order. That was before the news about the baby was known. Perfectly fine for him to miss PMQs to be with his child. Not fine for him to be back at work and miss crucial aspects of his work if he is not yet well enough to work. He should use his paternity leave to get himself fully well again and then, when he is back at work, he needs to do the key aspects of the job, including PMQs.

    Accountability for the PM is essential in a Parliamentary democracy.
    The point is they were attacking him for something, based on speculation, that suited their bias - they didn’t know the whole story, as always.
    Doesn't change who we are talking about. A man typified by laziness. Those that criticise him are not somehow disallowed from doing so because he has had yet another child by yet another partner, and that he has recently recovered from illness.
    The hard left on here don't understand anything. They post their drivel on here everyday, anything to do this country and the ordinary people down. Can you imagine what it would be like if Corbyn was running this?
    Except that the alternative would have been a Conservative leader with more gravitas. The Tory membership are responsible for Boris, anyone they chose would have beaten Corbyn in December. The members wanted the most Brexity candidate possible and the real irony is that I doubt Boris is much bothered by Brexit either way other than it providing him with a vehicle to the leadership.
    Yeah because May did such a good job beating Corbyn and a Continuity May option like Hunt would have done well wouldn't they?
    I am talking about who would have done a better job of dealing with this pandemic. You clearly don't believe anyone could have done a better job than Boris. I disagree.

    In a few months time we will know how successful our government has been compared to others. I am content to wait.
    You will not because ots impossible to compare apples and oranges
    But everyone will. Even your hated "free press".
    I dont hate the free press btw. I am just appalled about how they get so much wrong.

    I am justv reduced by elimination to reading the only good paper out there and uts not exactly govt friendly
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Foxy said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    eadric said:

    SKS open goal with Panorama highlighting the many PPE failings.

    Misses

    Its a throw in

    I did worry that about Starmer (and I he's clearly a very intelligent principled guy) is that he's just dull. No ones going to go over the top for him, he's not going to get anyone every fired up and inspired.

    He also seems to lack the 'common touch' of emotion and connectivity. He just doesn't 'move' you.
    He is literally the dullest politician in a generation. I can’t remember anyone more boring. He makes David Miliband look like Gabrielle d’Annunzio.

    Ne me frego
    Dull can work very well - but only if you have damning evidence to lay before the jury.
    If you just don't have very much to say, then dull becomes excruciating.
    You would have thought that if dull is going to work against anyone it would be Boris, especially if his gloss is punctured ( @kle4 does that work?) or he is perceived simply to be too big a character to be PM for the circumstances and ends up with people laughing at not with him.

    Charismatic leaders can brush lots off but not some tangible failure, whatever that may be - trailing in last in Europe in C-19, or somesuch who knows.

    In that case, people might be rushing to dull. Don't forget people were in the mood for Boris after....Theresa DULL May.
    Dull on its own will not do the job.
    Dull plus substance might.

    (And you could tarnish gloss; muddy it; discolour it
    But you'd puncture or scratch, even delaminate, a glossy veneer.)
    Dull vs flamboyant incompetent twat surely has a fighting chance.
    Not really. We are beyond the point of wanting dull competence in our leaders.

    In the attention deficit modern world, with media both old and new shouting to try to get attention, flamboyant incompetence wins every time electorally.
    Thankfully right now we are at the rare point where the stars align and we are lucky enough to have flamboyant competence.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,601
    "When Norway’s public health experts began looking into the backgrounds of those infected by coronavirus, they made a startling discovery: people born in Somalia have infection rates more than 10 times above the national average."

    https://www.ft.com/content/5fd6ab18-be4a-48de-b887-8478a391dd72
This discussion has been closed.