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  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    No. Not the same as every PM ever. Prime Ministers have given, rightly, Prime Minister’s Questions very high priority. They usually miss it only if they are out of the country.

    The current Prime Minister is missing it today, it seems, solely because he is not up to the job. If he is not up to the job, he shouldn’t be playing at doing it.
    He's not doing it because he is not well and is returning to work. If he is returning to work from a serious illness he should do those elements of the job he is capable of doing while he recovers until he can do the job 100%. As the law and government advice says. https://www.hse.gov.uk/sicknessabsence/

    PMQs does need high priority yes as has Johnson given it, PMs miss PMQs only if they have a strong reason not to do so and Johnson does have a strong reason not to do so as is standard under the law of the land and would be standard under any other job under Health and Safety at Work Act etc
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,239
    kinabalu said:

    As I postulated a few days ago, I think Johnson will be keen to prolong this period whereby with the (valid) excuse of "still a bit weak" he can keep hold of the strings of power but duck out of anything he finds tedious or smacks of hard work such as PMQs or in depth reading of papers. It's a most acceptable situation for him.
    I do love a bit af cynicism - and you may very well be right. I`m not sure. I do think that Johnson has a powerful sense of duty - though I know many on here will pounce on me for suggesting so.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 73,049
    .

    And will repeatedly quote mendacious “statistics” until the cows come home.
    Now, now. That is unparliamentary language.
    'Selective statistics' would be preferable.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,735
    edited April 2020

    Thatcher was libertarian. So were Cameron and Johnson.

    If you think anyone would ever win an election on your platform of only true believer conservatives f**k everyone else they should vote for someone else platform then you are deluded. You are worse than Iain Duncan Smith, whom it wouldn't surprise me if you supported.
    No they were not, to be a libertarian you have to be socially liberal as well as support deep spending cuts and tax cuts.

    Thatcher was not a social liberal, she introduced Section 28 after all and wanted tight immigration controls, Cameron was more One Nation Conservative, Osborne more libertarian.

    Johnson promised to increase spending not cut spending and he also promised tighter immigration controls.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,573
    To be honest, I don’t care that Boris is still too poorly to do HMQs. PMs get sick sometimes.

    I do care that we seem to heading toward the highest rate of mortality per million in Europe, despite having advance warning of this virus.

    I’m astonished that this is not the main issue right now.

    I am also deeply concerned about the economy.

    Overall, one does not feel a strong sense of confidence in the government’s abilities to lead the country out of this, nor in their ability to be transparent about what is going on.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,253
    HYUFD said:

    Thatcher was not a libertarian
    The woman who voted to decriminalise homosexuality in 1967 wasn't a libertarian?

  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,780
    Pulpstar said:



    We seem to have raced ahead of France on the testing front too.

    We are certainly going to be racing way ahead of France on the deaths front from today, when the daily figures are revised to include deaths outside hospital, which will bring them into line with the way that French figures have been reported from the outset.


    The latest announcements on testing just add to the testing shambles. What the Government did a few days ago is to announce that something north of 10 million people CAN (in theory) now get tests. I would have much preferred it if they had said that a far smaller number deemed to be of top priority MUST be tested within a week, that number to include all care home staff and residents in order to try and halt the rampant spread within that sector. Instead those who should be the highest priority will try and largely fail to fight their way to the front of the queue. eg. As the availability of at home kits is still quite limited, why not reserve them all for care homes.

    Political imperitives have taken over - the Government wants to be seen to be testing more people, and the easiest way to get the numbers up is to avoid reserving tests for those who need them most.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 73,049

    He refused to wear a mask because he "wanted to look them in the eyes" Eh?

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1255387533636186115?s=20

    As I pointed out last night, the orifice he normally speaks from was probably well covered.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    HYUFD said:

    No they were not, to be a libertarian to have to be socially liberal as well as support deep spending cuts and tax cuts.

    Thatcher was not a social liberal, she introduced Section 28 after all and wanted tight immigration controls, Cameron was more One Nation Conservative, Osborne more libertarian.

    Johnson promised to increase spending not cut spending and he also promised tighter immigration controls.
    Thatcher didn't cut taxes or spending? She voted to legalise homosexuality.

    You have some perverse view of what a libertarian is - a libertarian is someone who is against the government running our lives either economically or socially. Margaret Thatcher certainly falls under that.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,112

    No I'm looking at it from the country perspective. Our country doesn't have a President it never has and I think it is better the PM recovers taking charge of what he can when he can than being an extremist view of all or nothing.

    Can you tell me how the country will improve at all by having Raab as permanent full time Prime Minister instead of having him deputise where required as part of a British cabinet government?
    Yes. That and @Carlotta's point about it would be Raab are well made.

    But just as when people whine about lack of democratic mandates when a party has received, say, 35% of the vote, we must in this instance look at our democratic institution. Raab may be great or awful but I want someone in charge who is in charge. If the procedure is that the person in charge is Raab if Johnson is out of commission then yes, I want Raab. That is our functioning democratic process.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,080
    edited April 2020
    F1: Ladbrokes now has title and Austria (win) markets up.

    Not tempted at the moment. Currently feeling quietly confidence of my bet on Hamilton scoring at under 21 races this year.

    Edited extra bit: assuming it isn't voided, of course.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,903

    To be honest, I don’t care that Boris is still too poorly to do HMQs. PMs get sick sometimes.

    I do care that we seem to heading toward the highest rate of mortality per million in Europe, despite having advance warning of this virus.

    I’m astonished that this is not the main issue right now.

    I am also deeply concerned about the economy.

    Overall, one does not feel a strong sense of confidence in the government’s abilities to lead the country out of this, nor in their ability to be transparent about what is going on.

    Is any Govt transparent.. I cannot think of a single Govt in my lifetime that gave me confidence bar the first two of Mrs Thatcher 's administrations.
  • That Washington Post graphic is why BA's 12k job cuts is just the top of the iceberg for the travel industry. Volunteering to go in a flying petri-dish is going to be a pretty brave/desperate call until we get a vaccine for this thing.

    Do we count the last age as having started in around 1980? Thatcher, Reagan etc - the free market decades? 1980 - 2019. I wonder what we will call the decades starting 2020 - ?
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    He's not doing it because he is not well and is returning to work. If he is returning to work from a serious illness he should do those elements of the job he is capable of doing while he recovers until he can do the job 100%. As the law and government advice says. https://www.hse.gov.uk/sicknessabsence/

    PMQs does need high priority yes as has Johnson given it, PMs miss PMQs only if they have a strong reason not to do so and Johnson does have a strong reason not to do so as is standard under the law of the land and would be standard under any other job under Health and Safety at Work Act etc
    We appear to have a Prime Minister with untrammelled power and no responsibilities at present. This state of affairs may continue indefinitely so far as you are concerned.

    How are we to judge the Prime Minister’s faculties if they are not put on display? Indeed, the only conclusion that can be drawn from this absence is that the Prime Minister is too unwell to listen and think for half an hour at a time.

    If so, he is too ill to return to work.
  • Love a bit of right-wing civil war in the morning, with my breakfast. Please, do continue.
    And only one of us is the right winger and it most definitely not me
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,239

    Thatcher didn't cut taxes or spending? She voted to legalise homosexuality.

    You have some perverse view of what a libertarian is - a libertarian is someone who is against the government running our lives either economically or socially. Margaret Thatcher certainly falls under that.
    I hesitate to enter the fray on this, but I`d say that Thatcher was more of a libertarian than Cameron and Osborne, and much more than Johnson.

    Worth remembering that libertarianism is at the extreme end of liberalism not conservatism.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,422
    Pulpstar said:

    We seem to have raced ahead of France on the testing front too.
    Yes. It was bizarre to me that our testing numbers were so low to start with - I never got a clear picture from the media of why that was the case.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Sure. You still have to be able to do the job. Evidently, Boris Johnson isn’t.
    That's not true and could even break the law if you told an employee it was all or nothing.

    You have to do those elements of the job that you can. Evidently Boris Johnson is doing so. He will need to do all of his job when he is capable of doing so but until then the constitution is and has been for everyone that if the PM is incapable of doing PMQs then a deputy must do it to be held to account on their behalf. As every PM ever has always done.
  • fox327fox327 Posts: 370
    fox327 said:

    I don't think so, as any form of healthcare seems to be considered "essential". "Essential" does not have to mean "emergency".
    You are also allowed to move house where reasonably necessary, and to leave your house to avoid injury or illness or to escape a risk of harm.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 73,049
    edited April 2020
    Cyclefree said:

    Cummings may well have been giving sensible advice. But this claim, if true (and it paints Cummings in a good light and the scientists in a bad one, it’s worth noting) does rather undermine the previous claims that the government was “following the science”.

    Of course the decision was a mixture of science and politics. But it feels as if the government is trying to make its decision seem inevitable, rather than a decision for which Ministers - rather than scientists - should be accountable.
    One might add that 'science', and scientific discussion, is something conducted in public, and open to full scrutiny, not something that is done behind closed doors, unattributably.

    Otherwise it is not science.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,573

    Is any Govt transparent.. I cannot think of a single Govt in my lifetime that gave me confidence bar the first two of Mrs Thatcher 's administrations.
    I think 2010-2015 was very satisfactory.

    I am not particularly a Blair fan, but I guess a case should be made for 1997-2001.

    Before that, yes, you have to go back to the early 80s (before my time).

    Perhaps the best we can hope for is 5 years in every 15.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,735

    Thatcher didn't cut taxes or spending? She voted to legalise homosexuality.

    You have some perverse view of what a libertarian is - a libertarian is someone who is against the government running our lives either economically or socially. Margaret Thatcher certainly falls under that.
    Thatcher was a libertarian in economic terms but not social terms, if she was a libertarian in social terms she would never have introduced Section 28 and opposed immigration controls.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,663
    edited April 2020

    That Washington Post graphic is why BA's 12k job cuts is just the top of the iceberg for the travel industry. Volunteering to go in a flying petri-dish is going to be a pretty brave/desperate call until we get a vaccine for this thing.

    Do we count the last age as having started in around 1980? Thatcher, Reagan etc - the free market decades? 1980 - 2019. I wonder what we will call the decades starting 2020 - ?

    Depends how the virus/a vaccine pan out and whether people rebound like a coiled spring into the way life was previously or perhaps, whilst not enjoying the total lockdown we now have, prefer a more relaxed pace of life.
  • Thatcher was libertarian. So were Cameron and Johnson.

    If you think anyone would ever win an election on your platform of only true believer conservatives f**k everyone else they should vote for someone else platform then you are deluded. You are worse than Iain Duncan Smith, whom it wouldn't surprise me if you supported.
    He is an IDS disciple and as far as I know campaigned for him in GE 19 which explains a lot
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited April 2020

    We appear to have a Prime Minister with untrammelled power and no responsibilities at present. This state of affairs may continue indefinitely so far as you are concerned.

    How are we to judge the Prime Minister’s faculties if they are not put on display? Indeed, the only conclusion that can be drawn from this absence is that the Prime Minister is too unwell to listen and think for half an hour at a time.

    If so, he is too ill to return to work.
    Welcome to Britain. That is our constitution, we don't have an election right now so we aren't judging the PM and his First Secretary of State who is his nominated deputy is attending PMQs as every PM ever has always done when they are unable to attend. Please name any PM with a 100% attendance at PMQs.

    I started watching PMQs when Blair was Prime Minister and I can't recall any PM ever who never missed a PMQs.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,863
    Stocky said:

    I hesitate to enter the fray on this, but I`d say that Thatcher was more of a libertarian than Cameron and Osborne, and much more than Johnson.

    Worth remembering that libertarianism is at the extreme end of liberalism not conservatism.
    Thatcher was only very slectively libertarian. What was her stance on homosexuality, promiscuity, legalising drugs, free speech (e.g. for SF), aparthied?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,735

    And only one of us is the right winger and it most definitely not me
    Well we know that BigG
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,951

    That Washington Post graphic is why BA's 12k job cuts is just the top of the iceberg for the travel industry. Volunteering to go in a flying petri-dish is going to be a pretty brave/desperate call until we get a vaccine for this thing.

    Do we count the last age as having started in around 1980? Thatcher, Reagan etc - the free market decades? 1980 - 2019. I wonder what we will call the decades starting 2020 - ?

    If you read William Gibson's latest novels from the last decade or so, they take place in a future world where something called "The Jackpot" happened in the 21st century. A period of several years of climate change, political instability, droughts, famines, pandemics and chaos. In which 80% of the population die off. The joke is that the rich carry on and effectively don't notice all the poor people are dead...
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,239

    Thatcher was only very slectively libertarian. What was her stance on homosexuality, promiscuity, legalising drugs, free speech (e.g. for SF), aparthied?
    Agreed - she was primarily a conservative.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,573

    That Washington Post graphic is why BA's 12k job cuts is just the top of the iceberg for the travel industry. Volunteering to go in a flying petri-dish is going to be a pretty brave/desperate call until we get a vaccine for this thing.

    Perhaps I am guilty of “normalcy bias” but I’m not willing to give up on global travel just yet.

    EasyJet and Wizz expect to be flying in May or June, and are both busy working on adjustments necessary to reassure passengers.

    Some research I saw suggested there was huge pent-up demand for travel in 2021 - so much so the analysts in question were recommending buying some airline stocks.

    2020 is fucked though.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    That's not true and could even break the law if you told an employee it was all or nothing.

    You have to do those elements of the job that you can. Evidently Boris Johnson is doing so. He will need to do all of his job when he is capable of doing so but until then the constitution is and has been for everyone that if the PM is incapable of doing PMQs then a deputy must do it to be held to account on their behalf. As every PM ever has always done.
    You’re making several mistaken assumptions. Two in particular are worth stressing:

    First, Boris Johnson is not an employee.

    Secondly, you’re assuming he’s fit for work and then wanting to make adjustments to the role to suit him. On the evidence we have, he is not fit to return to work. He should be signed off until he is capable of sitting and thinking for half an hour at a time, at least.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 73,049
    edited April 2020

    ...We CAN do a comparison.

    You said we couldn't.

    - Usually, we can't. But it happens that Sweden is one of a trio of very similar countries. Similar distributions of people, similar lifestyles and cultures, similar geographically, and fairly similar economic setups. Similar history - even similar languages. Hell, they've been one country before now, or two countries, dependent on who Norway was part of. The Nordic countries: Norway, Sweden, and Denmark. Sweden's population is a bit less than that of the other two added together. Denmark is a bit denser population-wise, and has a significant land border with Germany and close to the extremely population dense region of the Benelux area, but other than that - very close, overall. It would probably be the most meaningful comparison between countries of almost any selected countries.

    What about NI and the Republic ?
    (I'm not arguing with your overall point.)
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Thatcher was only very slectively libertarian. What was her stance on homosexuality, promiscuity, legalising drugs, free speech (e.g. for SF), aparthied?
    Her stance on homosexuality was that she voted to legalise it. It was illegal when she entered Parliament and she voted to legalise it.

    You have to judge people from the era they were in.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,735

    Thatcher was only very slectively libertarian. What was her stance on homosexuality, promiscuity, legalising drugs, free speech (e.g. for SF), aparthied?
    Indeed, she took a traditional view of social matters based on her Methodist upbringing, she certainly opposed legalising drugs and was no fan of promiscuity either
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,863
    Scott_xP said:
    Translation: "I haven't been told yet"
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,735

    He is an IDS disciple and as far as I know campaigned for him in GE 19 which explains a lot
    Yes IDS was re elected
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    Welcome to Britain. That is our constitution, we don't have an election right now so we aren't judging the PM and his First Secretary of State who is his nominated deputy is attending PMQs as every PM ever has always done when they are unable to attend. Please name any PM with a 100% attendance at PMQs.

    I started watching PMQs when Blair was Prime Minister and I can't recall any PM ever who never missed a PMQs.
    If you’re not going to bother noticing when your mistakes have been corrected, you aren’t worth engaging with.
  • Okay. We can argue over the death rate, and whether or not I, in particular, am vulnerable if we lift the lockdown...

    - Let's not. No-one really knows, and I'm tired of people going "I found THIS on the internet which says what I want it to say." We don't know. We don't know what the IFR actually is - it's probably somewhere between 0.4% and 1.0%; we don't know if survivors are permanently damaged; we don't know if children can or cannot pass it on; we don't know what would happen to those in younger and fitter demographics if the health service was overwhelmed, so there's not much use in that. Far more heat than light.

    Okay. But what about Sweden? Are you going to continue to dismiss it?

    - If you like, we CAN do a comparison.

    You said we couldn't.

    - Usually, we can't. But it happens that Sweden is one of a trio of very similar countries. Similar distributions of people, similar lifestyles and cultures, similar geographically, and fairly similar economic setups. Similar history - even similar languages. Hell, they've been one country before now, or two countries, dependent on who Norway was part of. The Nordic countries: Norway, Sweden, and Denmark. Sweden's population is a bit less than that of the other two added together. Denmark is a bit denser population-wise, and has a significant land border with Germany and close to the extremely population dense region of the Benelux area, but other than that - very close, overall. It would probably be the most meaningful comparison between countries of almost any selected countries.

    And what do you get?

    - Well, if all three did the same thing, you'd expect Denmark to be hit the worst (highest population densities and most borders with other countries). Then Sweden (bigger than the other two and with a border with Denmark), and then Norway. Denmark and Norway both locked down, so here's the cumulative death tolls for both of them (scaled up to the level they would be if they had Sweden-level populations) and a "counterfactual Sweden" exactly half way between the two. It's a very crude model, but should be broadly indicative.



    - And this is what actually happened with Sweden. If all else was the same (it never quite is), then the only difference would be the lockdown issue.



    - And, to add crude model onto crude model, we can derive a multiplier factor from the first one (as infections spread multiplicatively). If (and, as said above, this "If" is bearing a lot of weight) the only different factor was the lockdown-or-Swedish-partial-lockdown, we could apply the multiplier to reported death rates in hospitals in England and get this:



    - Bear in mind my original insistence that we CAN'T compare countries to countries. But if we did, the best comparison we can have with running a counterfactual on "What would have happened if we followed Sweden's route" is right there.
    [part 2 of 2]

    A good point very well made. Well done!
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,786
    Scott_xP said:
    Is that early?

    Also gives BJ a pretty good reason not to be at PMQs right now.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,573
    Is this early?
    Boris off on pat leave for two more weeks.

    It is churlish to say it, but fuck it, this is PB:
    He’s a part-time PM.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Scott_xP said:
    A perfectly fair and much more reassuring reason!
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    You’re making several mistaken assumptions. Two in particular are worth stressing:

    First, Boris Johnson is not an employee.

    Secondly, you’re assuming he’s fit for work and then wanting to make adjustments to the role to suit him. On the evidence we have, he is not fit to return to work. He should be signed off until he is capable of sitting and thinking for half an hour at a time, at least.
    You're being preposterous. PMQs is much more than just sitting and thinking for half an hour at a time.

    I never said Johnson was an employee but him following the medical advice and standard legal procedures set down in law is entirely reasonable.

    Oh and Johnson wouldn't attend PMQs today anyway as his baby boy was born today! Did Blair and Cameron attend PMQs when their childre were born?
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,786
    Que the tin-foil hatters which will now claim that Boris deliberately induced the babys birth to avoid PMQs and any questioning...
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 73,049

    We are certainly going to be racing way ahead of France on the deaths front from today, when the daily figures are revised to include deaths outside hospital, which will bring them into line with the way that French figures have been reported from the outset.


    The latest announcements on testing just add to the testing shambles. What the Government did a few days ago is to announce that something north of 10 million people CAN (in theory) now get tests. I would have much preferred it if they had said that a far smaller number deemed to be of top priority MUST be tested within a week, that number to include all care home staff and residents in order to try and halt the rampant spread within that sector. Instead those who should be the highest priority will try and largely fail to fight their way to the front of the queue. eg. As the availability of at home kits is still quite limited, why not reserve them all for care homes.

    Political imperitives have taken over - the Government wants to be seen to be testing more people, and the easiest way to get the numbers up is to avoid reserving tests for those who need them most.
    I'd agree with that.
    If they are planning to end the lockdown anytime soon, a targeted testing program is absolutely essential in order to control the virus.
    Testing is not a public relations exercise.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    If you’re not going to bother noticing when your mistakes have been corrected, you aren’t worth engaging with.
    I never made a mistake.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,903
    So Dura Ace can fuck right off. No wonder No 10 was not giving any answers.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,239
    edited April 2020

    Is that early?

    Also gives BJ a pretty good reason not to be at PMQs right now.
    Some couples name a baby boy after the father`s middle name. Herald the new king: de Pfeffel Johnson. (Would the D be capitalised?)
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,270
    HYUFD said:
    "We also share a kleptocracy that has fucked up our economy."
    Stocky said:

    Does the Tiger Moth overwinter in the UK?
    I don't believe so - they emerge fresh in spring/summer.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    HYUFD said:

    Thatcher was a libertarian in economic terms but not social terms, if she was a libertarian in social terms she would never have introduced Section 28 and opposed immigration controls.
    Oh dear you are such an extremist fool. Its not all or nothing.

    Why not say if she was a conservative in social terms she would never have voted to legalise homosexuality?
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,239
    edited April 2020

    So Dura Ace can fuck right off. No wonder No 10 was not giving any answers.
    Logically both could be true: he could simultaneously be a new father and a useless sack of shit.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 43,291
    Stocky said:

    I do love a bit af cynicism - and you may very well be right. I`m not sure. I do think that Johnson has a powerful sense of duty - though I know many on here will pounce on me for suggesting so.
    I don't know about pouncing on you - not entirely happy with that image - but I will come straight back and say I disagree rather strongly. The main reason I was (and still am) unhappy about this man as our PM is I feel he lacks the sense of public service which I like to imagine lies at the core of those who aspire to and attain the position. I can honestly state I have sensed this (a real sense of duty) about every PM in my lifetime with the one exception of this current manifestation. This "Boris". Of course it might be that his experience with Covid-19 has changed him for the better in this regard. I'm not ruling out the possibility.
  • Scott_xP said:
    Well that is the perfect repost to the anti Boris meme on here
  • rkrkrk said:

    Yes. It was bizarre to me that our testing numbers were so low to start with - I never got a clear picture from the media of why that was the case.
    Thought I read somewhere that PHE did not want private companies involved, I may be wrong though
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,869

    That Washington Post graphic is why BA's 12k job cuts is just the top of the iceberg for the travel industry. Volunteering to go in a flying petri-dish is going to be a pretty brave/desperate call until we get a vaccine for this thing.

    Do we count the last age as having started in around 1980? Thatcher, Reagan etc - the free market decades? 1980 - 2019. I wonder what we will call the decades starting 2020 - ?

    Pace Ehrenburg and Hobsbawm: The Short 21st Century.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    HYUFD said:

    Yes IDS was re elected
    Not as party leader or Prime Minister.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,567

    Well that is the perfect repost to the anti Boris meme on here
    "Both mother and baby are doing very well, their spokesman said."

    Never mind them, how's Boris? :smiley:

  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,573

    Well that is the perfect repost to the anti Boris meme on here
    Why?
  • eekeek Posts: 28,798

    Sure. You still have to be able to do the job. Evidently, Boris Johnson isn’t.
    That argument is really only valid if the ONLY thing Boris does all week is PMQs.

    And it does appear that Boris is now on Paternity leave.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,903
    New thread
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 73,049
    edited April 2020
    .

    Well that is the perfect repost to the anti Boris meme on here
    Not one he's going to be able to pull off every week, though. :smile:

    Although....

    (And, btw, in the context, 'repost' is an excellent typo.)
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,663
    edited April 2020

    New thread

    Oh Christ A Boris baby thread ?
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 5,045
    Nigelb said:

    What about NI and the Republic ?
    (I'm not arguing with your overall point.)
    Yeah, that'd probably be another decent place to look for comparisons.
    I'm wondering if the Balkans could be likewise. Maybe Austria with parts of Germany as well.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,735

    Oh dear you are such an extremist fool. Its not all or nothing.

    Why not say if she was a conservative in social terms she would never have voted to legalise homosexuality?
    Thatcher saw a difference between legalising homosexuality and promoting homosexuality, times have changed and that view is no longer the majority view but it was certainly not a libertarian view even then
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,869
    Stocky said:

    Logically both could be true: he could simultaneously be a new father and a useless sack of shit.
    FAT useless sack of shit.

    So exactly how many kids is that now?
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,504
    Pulpstar said:

    Depends how the virus/a vaccine pan out and whether people rebound like a coiled spring into the way life was previously or perhaps, whilst not enjoying the total lockdown we now have, prefer a more relaxed pace of life.
    I don’t think there is anything relaxed about a life in which one can’t see family or friends, can’t visit a museum or gallery, or go to a play, concert, gig or film, can’t eat out, can’t explore parts of one’s country or visit historic or architectural attractions or join with others in any sort of communal activity. And this is the sort of life we will have to endure - because none of these activities are possible with “social distancing”
    I thought she was due in June. Pretty premature if so. Still a relief for all concerned.
  • MangoMango Posts: 1,019


    I am a libertarian Conservative yes. Like Thatcher, Cameron and Johnson.

    Talk me through the libertarian triumph that was Section 28.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,855

    The Prime Minister should either be on sick leave or he should be performing his duties. There isn't a halfway house. Clue: he should be on sick leave.

    If he had paid more attention to his duties when he was fully fit he, and we, wouldn’t be in quite so bad a mess now.

    There is a half-way house which was quite often occupied by Winston Churchill during the Second World War.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,573

    There is a half-way house which was quite often occupied by Winston Churchill during the Second World War.
    Drunken depression?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 73,049
    HYUFD said:

    Thatcher saw a difference between legalising homosexuality and promoting homosexuality, times have changed and that view is no longer the majority view but it was certainly not a libertarian view even then
    Why would a libertarian be promoting anything ?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 73,049

    There is a half-way house which was quite often occupied by Winston Churchill during the Second World War.
    The cocktail bar ?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 43,291
    Even better (!) for him. Not only "still a bit weak" but also a new father with the opportunity to project a bit of a "21st century man" image, attending the birth, helping Carrie with the baby in those difficult early weeks, doing his share around the nappies. It could all the true, of course, but it does not need to be to be compelling. So, no, do not expect "Boris" to be doing anything on the work front that he doesn't fancy the look of for quite some time. There will just be a few videos and the occasional set piece.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 52,155
    Nigelb said:

    The cocktail bar ?
    Apart from the incident in the Spanish-Cuban war, I can find little evidence that Churchill was a cocktails man.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 43,291

    Que the tin-foil hatters which will now claim that Boris deliberately induced the babys birth to avoid PMQs and any questioning...

    I'm certainly not suggesting that. Neither did he deliberately contract Covid-19. What I am suggesting is that both these events provide great cover for skiving off all the bits of the job he doesn't fancy - and that I expect him to exploit the opportunity to the max. Why wouldn't he? It's just "Boris being Boris".

    Bet you he takes no tough questions in public for at least two weeks.
This discussion has been closed.