Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Behind all the terrible COVID-19 statistics a story of two wom

1356

Comments

  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935
    DougSeal said:

    RobD said:
    I’ll wait for the Employment Tribunal to make that statement
    Not looking promising for him, is it?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935
    Mortimer said:

    RobD said:

    Mortimer said:

    RobD said:
    PB Tories, right again.
    We're always right, and never learn. Or something like that.
    Always right, others never learn, isn't it?
    I suppose if you are never wrong, you don't need to ever learn. :smiley:
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    tyson said:

    isam said:

    Foxy said:

    isam said:
    Yes, and I think that there will be a number of non cancer deaths too, in poorly controlled diabetes and heart disease etc, but in the longer term.

    It is not that we are blocking these services, more that the patients are not coming.

    Todays clinic was better, only 25% DNA.
    Is a post treatment biopsy for non invasive bladder cancer that important? My dads got cancelled because of the covid crisis. He doesn’t want to go near a hospital now anyway as he is nervous he’ll catch it

    It was post chemo injections, he’d already got an all clear after the op I think
    Hopefully when this all settles.....the NHS will look at historical DNA's with horror about how badly it used to perform.....

    In many sectors it really wasn't fit for purpose....particularly in getting vulnerable people into appointments (and then blaming them for not coming in)....

    I have the deep scars of dealing with clinicians who couldn't see beyond their own sanctimonious bullshit.....
    Are you leaning on your full stop key or is it stuck?
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    RobD said:
    Will dentists be allowed to re open to treat those suffering from gnashed teeth?
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    RobD said:

    DougSeal said:

    RobD said:
    I’ll wait for the Employment Tribunal to make that statement
    Not looking promising for him, is it?
    It will make its own mind up.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited April 2020
    Andy_JS said:

    twitter.com/Smyth_Chris/status/1255172563115954178

    Germany sort of already have. Said today, stay inside unless you really need to go out.

    Now if that had been the UK, all we would be hearing is about a huge U-Turn, how crap our scientists are, did Big Dom push for a lifting of the lockdown too soon...

    The reality is I think we are going to see stop / start everywhere. e.g. China have closed down gyms and swimming pools again.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,127

    Andy_JS said:

    twitter.com/Smyth_Chris/status/1255172563115954178

    Germany sort of already have. Said today, stay inside unless you really need to go out.

    Now if that had been the UK, all we would be hearing is about a huge U-Turn, how crap our scientists are, did Big Dom push for a lifting of the lockdown too soon...

    The reality is I think we are going to see stop / start everywhere. e.g. China have closed down gyms and swimming pools again.
    We have the benefit of being behind continental Europe on this. We ought to take the lesson and release lockdown as slowly and carefully as possible.

    Wouldn't surprise me if the first step is simply 'you can go to the tip and recycling centre'
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,139
    HYUFD said:
    The Trump tweets tonight should be fun!
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    HYUFD said:

    twitter.com/RaheemKassam/status/1255269373960491008?s=20

    Not called Sleepy Joe for nothing...
  • alteregoalterego Posts: 1,100
    DougSeal said:

    tyson said:

    isam said:

    Foxy said:

    isam said:
    Yes, and I think that there will be a number of non cancer deaths too, in poorly controlled diabetes and heart disease etc, but in the longer term.

    It is not that we are blocking these services, more that the patients are not coming.

    Todays clinic was better, only 25% DNA.
    Is a post treatment biopsy for non invasive bladder cancer that important? My dads got cancelled because of the covid crisis. He doesn’t want to go near a hospital now anyway as he is nervous he’ll catch it

    It was post chemo injections, he’d already got an all clear after the op I think
    Hopefully when this all settles.....the NHS will look at historical DNA's with horror about how badly it used to perform.....

    In many sectors it really wasn't fit for purpose....particularly in getting vulnerable people into appointments (and then blaming them for not coming in)....

    I have the deep scars of dealing with clinicians who couldn't see beyond their own sanctimonious bullshit.....
    Are you leaning on your full stop key or is it stuck?
    It's a serious point. Are you really not familiar with the device? Who leans on their keyboard?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,413

    Andy_JS said:

    twitter.com/Smyth_Chris/status/1255172563115954178

    Germany sort of already have. Said today, stay inside unless you really need to go out.

    Now if that had been the UK, all we would be hearing is about a huge U-Turn, how crap our scientists are, did Big Dom push for a lifting of the lockdown too soon...

    The reality is I think we are going to see stop / start everywhere. e.g. China have closed down gyms and swimming pools again.
    I think you are right. And in reality we haven't really locked down. Many of the relaxations in the rest of Europe are only really bringing them to our current levels.
    This is a marathon not a sprint. And the discussion around the profound social and economic changes required has barely begun.
    Witness the blithe "it wasn't in the manifesto" crap. Well. No Party ran for election with a pandemic plan front and centre.
    And, People won't put up with this, that and the other. Well, they are going to have to, or be made to....
    And the economy will be prooundly changed.
    Whole sectors are going to be gutted. Others will thrive. And the old rules of economic management simply don't apply.
    All of this will require political choices. Whoever is brave and sees this will succeed. Which is why now is not the moment to decide policy.
    We are nowhere near the end of the beginning.
  • alteregoalterego Posts: 1,100

    Andy_JS said:

    twitter.com/Smyth_Chris/status/1255172563115954178

    Germany sort of already have. Said today, stay inside unless you really need to go out.

    Now if that had been the UK, all we would be hearing is about a huge U-Turn, how crap our scientists are, did Big Dom push for a lifting of the lockdown too soon...

    The reality is I think we are going to see stop / start everywhere. e.g. China have closed down gyms and swimming pools again.
    Those driven by political preconditioning won't ever learn from anything that doesn't gel with that preconditioning. Lessons will have to be learnt but only when CV19 has played out.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,413
    alterego said:

    Andy_JS said:

    twitter.com/Smyth_Chris/status/1255172563115954178

    Germany sort of already have. Said today, stay inside unless you really need to go out.

    Now if that had been the UK, all we would be hearing is about a huge U-Turn, how crap our scientists are, did Big Dom push for a lifting of the lockdown too soon...

    The reality is I think we are going to see stop / start everywhere. e.g. China have closed down gyms and swimming pools again.
    Those driven by political preconditioning won't ever learn from anything that doesn't gel with that preconditioning. Lessons will have to be learnt but only when CV19 has played out.
    Gosh. Exactly what I tried to say in the preceding post. But in a third of the words.
    Much more coherent and eloquent.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    dixiedean said:

    Andy_JS said:

    twitter.com/Smyth_Chris/status/1255172563115954178

    Germany sort of already have. Said today, stay inside unless you really need to go out.

    Now if that had been the UK, all we would be hearing is about a huge U-Turn, how crap our scientists are, did Big Dom push for a lifting of the lockdown too soon...

    The reality is I think we are going to see stop / start everywhere. e.g. China have closed down gyms and swimming pools again.
    I think you are right. And in reality we haven't really locked down. Many of the relaxations in the rest of Europe are only really bringing them to our current levels.
    This is a marathon not a sprint. And the discussion around the profound social and economic changes required has barely begun.
    Witness the blithe "it wasn't in the manifesto" crap. Well. No Party ran for election with a pandemic plan front and centre.
    And, People won't put up with this, that and the other. Well, they are going to have to, or be made to....
    And the economy will be prooundly changed.
    Whole sectors are going to be gutted. Others will thrive. And the old rules of economic management simply don't apply.
    All of this will require political choices. Whoever is brave and sees this will succeed. Which is why now is not the moment to decide policy.
    We are nowhere near the end of the beginning.
    It would be interesting to know if the British public have fully contemplated this. I think with the talk of a vaccine in a few months, many will probably be seeing this as a terrible 3 month interruption, but not necessarily considered that may well not be it. And then what will be left of the economy and just how many years will it take for it to get back to previous levels (given we were only just about getting back to pre-crash levels after 10 years).
  • alteregoalterego Posts: 1,100
    dixiedean said:

    alterego said:

    Andy_JS said:

    twitter.com/Smyth_Chris/status/1255172563115954178

    Germany sort of already have. Said today, stay inside unless you really need to go out.

    Now if that had been the UK, all we would be hearing is about a huge U-Turn, how crap our scientists are, did Big Dom push for a lifting of the lockdown too soon...

    The reality is I think we are going to see stop / start everywhere. e.g. China have closed down gyms and swimming pools again.
    Those driven by political preconditioning won't ever learn from anything that doesn't gel with that preconditioning. Lessons will have to be learnt but only when CV19 has played out.
    Gosh. Exactly what I tried to say in the preceding post. But in a third of the words.
    Much more coherent and eloquent.
    It's the gin. Thank you.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,413
    isam said:

    RobD said:
    Will dentists be allowed to re open to treat those suffering from gnashed teeth?
    Hope so. Half of one my molars fell out on the Friday. I got an appointment for the Monday, but things changed utterly that weekend.
    No pain thankfully thus far, but it is a worry.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited April 2020
    dixiedean said:

    isam said:

    RobD said:
    Will dentists be allowed to re open to treat those suffering from gnashed teeth?
    Hope so. Half of one my molars fell out on the Friday. I got an appointment for the Monday, but things changed utterly that weekend.
    No pain thankfully thus far, but it is a worry.
    Other than the UDC, I don't think we are getting dentists back open anytime soon. It is just too dangerous for dentists without specialist PPE.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,482
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Ave_it said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    This IHT story is a trial balloon. Expect many more such. The government is softeing up the Press and the reasonably off for the inevitable unavoidable fact that they are going to have to put their hands in their pockets.
    In some way shape or form.
    The numbers don't work otherwise. Either economically or electorally.

    Not happening, Boris is ideologically opposed to putting up tax or cutting spending, he is not George Osborne but a Berlusconi style populist.

    Boris and Sunak will borrow indefinitely rather than put up tax or cut spending on the police, schools or NHS
    I think you may find this has changed and taxes will rise but so will spending on the NHS
    Taxes will not rise as the Tory manifesto Tory MPs were elected on made clear, Boris knows that and with a Tory majority of 80 Tory MPs elected on that manifesto will vote down any tax rises anyway
    HYUFD - the situation has changed. Taxes will need to rise and significantly to recover the nation's finance. Hopefully the focus will be on unearned wealth so increases to IHT, more tax on investment properties etc. But generally we all will have to pay more.

    Plus - if the government is brave enough - a freeze on welfare, hopefully Boris' 80 seat majority will help with this!


    The situation has not changed. Taxes will not rise and certainly not deeply unpopular taxes like IHT.

    For the umpteenth time Boris is a populist not a deficit hawk like Osborne or May
    What about a digital tax on Amazon etc.? Even if they do just pass the tax on to UK consumers, it still wouldn't be that unpopular.
    Maybe but would likely need to be G7 wide to be effective
    Why on earth would it need to be G7-wide to be an effective way to raise money for the exchequer. What on odd idea.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,413

    dixiedean said:

    Andy_JS said:

    twitter.com/Smyth_Chris/status/1255172563115954178

    Germany sort of already have. Said today, stay inside unless you really need to go out.

    Now if that had been the UK, all we would be hearing is about a huge U-Turn, how crap our scientists are, did Big Dom push for a lifting of the lockdown too soon...

    The reality is I think we are going to see stop / start everywhere. e.g. China have closed down gyms and swimming pools again.
    I think you are right. And in reality we haven't really locked down. Many of the relaxations in the rest of Europe are only really bringing them to our current levels.
    This is a marathon not a sprint. And the discussion around the profound social and economic changes required has barely begun.
    Witness the blithe "it wasn't in the manifesto" crap. Well. No Party ran for election with a pandemic plan front and centre.
    And, People won't put up with this, that and the other. Well, they are going to have to, or be made to....
    And the economy will be prooundly changed.
    Whole sectors are going to be gutted. Others will thrive. And the old rules of economic management simply don't apply.
    All of this will require political choices. Whoever is brave and sees this will succeed. Which is why now is not the moment to decide policy.
    We are nowhere near the end of the beginning.
    It would be interesting to know if the British public have fully contemplated this. I think with the talk of a vaccine in a few months, many will probably be seeing this as a terrible 3 month interruption, but not necessarily considered that may well not be it. And then what will be left of the economy and just how many years will it take for it to get back to previous levels (given we were only just about getting back to pre-crash levels after 10 years).
    I reckon not. Many on PB. Where a high level of sophistication and consideration is a requirement don't seem to have.
    This is one area where I feel the Government has been a little remiss. And the Media with their end of lockdown obsession has been complicit.
    The Opposition. I dunno. The realisation will dawn eventually.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    dixiedean said:

    isam said:

    RobD said:
    Will dentists be allowed to re open to treat those suffering from gnashed teeth?
    Hope so. Half of one my molars fell out on the Friday. I got an appointment for the Monday, but things changed utterly that weekend.
    No pain thankfully thus far, but it is a worry.
    I had a massive filling fall out a week before lockdown. Thankfully it hasn’t given me any grief... yet!
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,413
    alterego said:

    dixiedean said:

    alterego said:

    Andy_JS said:

    twitter.com/Smyth_Chris/status/1255172563115954178

    Germany sort of already have. Said today, stay inside unless you really need to go out.

    Now if that had been the UK, all we would be hearing is about a huge U-Turn, how crap our scientists are, did Big Dom push for a lifting of the lockdown too soon...

    The reality is I think we are going to see stop / start everywhere. e.g. China have closed down gyms and swimming pools again.
    Those driven by political preconditioning won't ever learn from anything that doesn't gel with that preconditioning. Lessons will have to be learnt but only when CV19 has played out.
    Gosh. Exactly what I tried to say in the preceding post. But in a third of the words.
    Much more coherent and eloquent.
    It's the gin. Thank you.
    Obviously trumps the cheap Tesco red wine....although I have more.Much more...
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited April 2020
    isam said:

    dixiedean said:

    isam said:

    RobD said:
    Will dentists be allowed to re open to treat those suffering from gnashed teeth?
    Hope so. Half of one my molars fell out on the Friday. I got an appointment for the Monday, but things changed utterly that weekend.
    No pain thankfully thus far, but it is a worry.
    I had a massive filling fall out a week before lockdown. Thankfully it hasn’t given me any grief... yet!
    If pain starts, the official advice is pretty depressing. Take painkillers, keep upping it until you are max'ed out....then live with it until you run into real trouble e.g. your face swells up.

    If you do get referred to an UDC, you won't get a filling, it is pretty much removal or removal.

    When dentists finally do reopen, I think they are going to need to work 7 days a week, 12hr+ days to try and clear the backlog.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,708
    This gives a whole new meaning to the country being run by the Daily Mail.

    https://twitter.com/matthancock/status/1255256404207812611?s=21
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited April 2020

    This gives a whole new meaning to the country being run by the Daily Mail.

    //twitter.com/matthancock/status/1255256404207812611?s=21

    I hope the Chinese the Mail bought their PPE from is legit. Was another story today of a European country having bought a load of dodgy masks and India sending back their testing kits, because they were utter shit.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,139
    edited April 2020

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Ave_it said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    This IHT story is a trial balloon. Expect many more such. The government is softeing up the Press and the reasonably off for the inevitable unavoidable fact that they are going to have to put their hands in their pockets.
    In some way shape or form.
    The numbers don't work otherwise. Either economically or electorally.

    Not happening, Boris is ideologically opposed to putting up tax or cutting spending, he is not George Osborne but a Berlusconi style populist.

    Boris and Sunak will borrow indefinitely rather than put up tax or cut spending on the police, schools or NHS
    I think you may find this has changed and taxes will rise but so will spending on the NHS
    Taxes will not rise as the Tory manifesto Tory MPs were elected on made clear, Boris knows that and with a Tory majority of 80 Tory MPs elected on that manifesto will vote down any tax rises anyway
    HYUFD - the situation has changed. Taxes will need to rise and significantly to recover the nation's finance. Hopefully the focus will be on unearned wealth so increases to IHT, more tax on investment properties etc. But generally we all will have to pay more.

    Plus - if the government is brave enough - a freeze on welfare, hopefully Boris' 80 seat majority will help with this!


    The situation has not changed. Taxes will not rise and certainly not deeply unpopular taxes like IHT.

    For the umpteenth time Boris is a populist not a deficit hawk like Osborne or May
    What about a digital tax on Amazon etc.? Even if they do just pass the tax on to UK consumers, it still wouldn't be that unpopular.
    Maybe but would likely need to be G7 wide to be effective
    Why on earth would it need to be G7-wide to be an effective way to raise money for the exchequer. What on odd idea.
    As Amazon could simply move many of its warehouses and its offices to another G7 or G20 nation to avoid the tax
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    Mortimer said:

    justin124 said:

    Mortimer said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Ave_it said:

    MikeL said:

    Surely the answer is that Boris will put up taxes to some degree but it'll be ones that don't generate headlines and are less likely to be noticed.

    So that means tax rates do not go up (for any tax). Instead what you do is:

    - Freeze allowances
    - Reduce reliefs

    I would have thought a pretty significant cut to relief for pension contributions is the most obvious big revenue earner - maybe restrict to basic rate.

    Also cut CGT allowance from £12,000 to say £1,500, reduce ISA limit from £20,000 to say £10,000.

    Next maybe scrap 0% rate on first £5,000 of savings income, scrap £2,000 dividend allowance.

    The list goes on - lots of things you can do that most people don't have faintest idea about.

    All good ideas - also get rid of the marriage allowance (why do we have this, its not the 1950s), scrap the Triple Lock. I would freeze all welfare and state pension for five years.

    And make self employed pay their fair rate of NI.


    The Tory manifesto contained a commitment to keep the triple lock, Tory members also strongly support the marriage allowance.

    We have a Tory majority and it will pursue Tory policies
    Tory Governments have often increased taxes - including when headed by Thatcher.
    Thatcher cut the top rate of income tax from 90% when she arrived at No 10 to just 40% by the time she left office
    And increased VAT from 8% to 15% within weeks of taking office! The range of goods subject to VAT was also widened. Moreover, to be accurate the Top rateof Income Tax she inherited was 83% - which she reduced to 60% in June 1979 and where it remained until 1988. I believe the public would accept a return to a Top Rate of 60%.
    The public perhaps, Tory voters, no.

    Not going to happen either.
    The 2019 new Tory voters from the Red Wall and elsewhere would be happy with it.
    60% with the addition of NI would be utterly absurd.
    IshmaelZ said:

    Mortimer said:

    Foxy said:

    isam said:
    Yes, and I think that there will be a number of non cancer deaths too, in poorlt controlled diabetes and heart disease etc, but in the longer term.

    It is not that we are blocking these services, more that the patients are not coming.

    Todays clinic was better, only 25% DNA.
    I wonder to what degree the other health positives of the lockdown (fewer RTAs, fewer fights in town centres, fewer DIY accidents, fewer school accidents, fewer strokes and heart attacks) weigh against the negatives?
    >

    National Insurance levels were pretty high when we had 60% Top Income Tax Rate under Thatcher.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,413
    isam said:

    dixiedean said:

    isam said:

    RobD said:
    Will dentists be allowed to re open to treat those suffering from gnashed teeth?
    Hope so. Half of one my molars fell out on the Friday. I got an appointment for the Monday, but things changed utterly that weekend.
    No pain thankfully thus far, but it is a worry.
    I had a massive filling fall out a week before lockdown. Thankfully it hasn’t given me any grief... yet!
    I empathise. I feel your (thus far touch wood) lack of pain. It is one of the thousands of run of the mill in usual times problems which this virus has thrown into relief.
    We really were blessed beforehand.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,482
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Ave_it said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    This IHT story is a trial balloon. Expect many more such. The government is softeing up the Press and the reasonably off for the inevitable unavoidable fact that they are going to have to put their hands in their pockets.
    In some way shape or form.
    The numbers don't work otherwise. Either economically or electorally.

    Not happening, Boris is ideologically opposed to putting up tax or cutting spending, he is not George Osborne but a Berlusconi style populist.

    Boris and Sunak will borrow indefinitely rather than put up tax or cut spending on the police, schools or NHS
    I think you may find this has changed and taxes will rise but so will spending on the NHS
    Taxes will not rise as the Tory manifesto Tory MPs were elected on made clear, Boris knows that and with a Tory majority of 80 Tory MPs elected on that manifesto will vote down any tax rises anyway
    HYUFD - the situation has changed. Taxes will need to rise and significantly to recover the nation's finance. Hopefully the focus will be on unearned wealth so increases to IHT, more tax on investment properties etc. But generally we all will have to pay more.

    Plus - if the government is brave enough - a freeze on welfare, hopefully Boris' 80 seat majority will help with this!


    The situation has not changed. Taxes will not rise and certainly not deeply unpopular taxes like IHT.

    For the umpteenth time Boris is a populist not a deficit hawk like Osborne or May
    What about a digital tax on Amazon etc.? Even if they do just pass the tax on to UK consumers, it still wouldn't be that unpopular.
    Maybe but would likely need to be G7 wide to be effective
    Why on earth would it need to be G7-wide to be an effective way to raise money for the exchequer. What on odd idea.
    As Amazon could simply move its warehouses and offices to another G7 or G20 nation to avoid the tax
    How would it moving its warehouses out of the country make a difference to how much tax it would be charged for digital transactions? Not aware it even has a significant operation within the UK beyond that which it needs to support its UK customer base, but happy to be told I am wrong.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,139
    edited April 2020
    justin124 said:

    Mortimer said:

    justin124 said:

    Mortimer said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Ave_it said:

    MikeL said:

    Surely the answer is that Boris will put up taxes to some degree but it'll be ones that don't generate headlines and are less likely to be noticed.

    So that means tax rates do not go up (for any tax). Instead what you do is:

    - Freeze allowances
    - Reduce reliefs

    I would have thought a pretty significant cut to relief for pension contributions is the most obvious big revenue earner - maybe restrict to basic rate.

    Also cut CGT allowance from £12,000 to say £1,500, reduce ISA limit from £20,000 to say £10,000.

    Next maybe scrap 0% rate on first £5,000 of savings income, scrap £2,000 dividend allowance.

    The list goes on - lots of things you can do that most people don't have faintest idea about.

    All good ideas - also get rid of the marriage allowance (why do we have this, its not the 1950s), scrap the Triple Lock. I would freeze all welfare and state pension for five years.

    And make self employed pay their fair rate of NI.


    The Tory manifesto contained a commitment to keep the triple lock, Tory members also strongly support the marriage allowance.

    We have a Tory majority and it will pursue Tory policies
    Tory Governments have often increased taxes - including when headed by Thatcher.
    Thatcher cut the top rate of income tax from 90% when she arrived at No 10 to just 40% by the time she left office
    And increased VAT from 8% to 15% within weeks of taking office! The range of goods subject to VAT was also widened. Moreover, to be accurate the Top rateof Income Tax she inherited was 83% - which she reduced to 60% in June 1979 and where it remained until 1988. I believe the public would accept a return to a Top Rate of 60%.
    The public perhaps, Tory voters, no.

    Not going to happen either.
    The 2019 new Tory voters from the Red Wall and elsewhere would be happy with it.
    60% with the addition of NI would be utterly absurd.
    IshmaelZ said:

    Mortimer said:

    Foxy said:

    isam said:
    Yes, and I think that there will be a number of non cancer deaths too, in poorlt controlled diabetes and heart disease etc, but in the longer term.

    It is not that we are blocking these services, more that the patients are not coming.

    Todays clinic was better, only 25% DNA.
    I wonder to what degree the other health positives of the lockdown (fewer RTAs, fewer fights in town centres, fewer DIY accidents, fewer school accidents, fewer strokes and heart attacks) weigh against the negatives?
    >

    National Insurance levels were pretty high when we had 60% Top Income Tax Rate under Thatcher.
    Thatcher sensibly cut the top income tax rate again to 40%.

    A 60% top income tax rate would be the highest in the world and see an exodus of investment and high earners.

    The current highest rates are 58.95% in Aruba and 57% in Sweden

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_rates
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,482

    This gives a whole new meaning to the country being run by the Daily Mail.

    //twitter.com/matthancock/status/1255256404207812611?s=21

    I hope the Chinese the Mail bought their PPE from is legit. Was another story today of a European country having bought a load of dodgy masks and India sending back their testing kits, because they were utter shit.
    Not sure how a cover all gown would be not 'legit'? Turns out to be a barely there number, off the shoulder and a revealing thigh split?
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,708
    Surely £1m worth of PPE is absolute peanuts?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119

    This gives a whole new meaning to the country being run by the Daily Mail.

    //twitter.com/matthancock/status/1255256404207812611?s=21

    I hope the Chinese the Mail bought their PPE from is legit. Was another story today of a European country having bought a load of dodgy masks and India sending back their testing kits, because they were utter shit.
    Not sure how a cover all gown would be not 'legit'? Turns out to be a barely there number, off the shoulder and a revealing thigh split?
    Well for starters the boxes don't contain what they say they do. Uk government have regularly had this issue, boxes of gowns were actually packed with masks.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    MikeL said:

    Surely £1m worth of PPE is absolute peanuts?

    50,000 medical coveralls and 100,000 masks...

    Didnt they say the NHS is using 140k gowns a day at the moment.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    Not quite as bad as that company in labours dodgy dossier that made 18th century bodises and were pissed off that the government wasn't interested when they said they could make 300 gowns a week.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    DougSeal said:

    When I was a kid I really wanted to join the Navy and become a submariner. Never did. Good job too as this lockdown proves I would have been really bad at it.

    Just recreate the experience by taking heroin and spraying all your food with WD40.
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    Barnesian said:
    Not so surprising, NC is following Virginia in swiftly turning from blue to red due to a burgeoning tech sector attracting highly-educated, liberal voters.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    edited April 2020


    The unherd guy is decent. He asks a question and lets them respond before challenging them...rather than standard interrupt / shout over somebody.

    That's good but he doesn't really get information out of them - eg the Swedish dude made various amazing claims that would be very consequential if true, like that half of Sweden is already infected and hardly anyone dies from this thing, and there may be really good reasons why he thinks those things, but if so we have no idea what they are, because the interviewer didn't think to follow up.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,932
    rpjs said:

    Barnesian said:
    Not so surprising, NC is following Virginia in swiftly turning from blue to red due to a burgeoning tech sector attracting highly-educated, liberal voters.
    And because North Carolina is now slightly less gerrymandered by the GOP than it used to be.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468

    This gives a whole new meaning to the country being run by the Daily Mail.

    //twitter.com/matthancock/status/1255256404207812611?s=21

    I hope the Chinese the Mail bought their PPE from is legit. Was another story today of a European country having bought a load of dodgy masks and India sending back their testing kits, because they were utter shit.
    Not sure how a cover all gown would be not 'legit'? Turns out to be a barely there number, off the shoulder and a revealing thigh split?
    Not non-porous?
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    isam said:

    dixiedean said:

    isam said:

    RobD said:
    Will dentists be allowed to re open to treat those suffering from gnashed teeth?
    Hope so. Half of one my molars fell out on the Friday. I got an appointment for the Monday, but things changed utterly that weekend.
    No pain thankfully thus far, but it is a worry.
    I had a massive filling fall out a week before lockdown. Thankfully it hasn’t given me any grief... yet!
    I had a tooth break in January. In late Feb, in the chair watching the massive aerosol generation as the dentist drilled the tooth, I asked him what he was going to do, and what the advice was from the American Dental Association. He did not know, and had received none.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,225
    HYUFD said:
    I thought he looked rather Zen.
    And let’s face it, those are the only two ways to gp get through a Hillary talk.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,225
    Putin can fool some of the public all of the time....

    https://twitter.com/AndyBiotech/status/1255147536358105092
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,932
    Nigelb said:

    Putin can fool some of the public all of the time....

    https://twitter.com/AndyBiotech/status/1255147536358105092

    Just beyond the headline may lie good news for President Trump with regards to blaming China.

    From the linked story:
    Nearly one-third of Americans believe a vaccine already exists to prevent coronavirus infection but is being withheld from the public, while nearly half believe the COVID-19 virus was created in a lab.
    And by party:
    The survey found 44% of Americans believe the coronavirus was probably created in a a lab while 56% said this is likely or definitely untrue. Fifty percent of Republicans surveyed said they believe coronavirus was created in a lab compared with 37% of Democrats who said they believed that.
    Further:
    [President Trump] said the U.S. is investigating whether the novel coronavirus began spreading after an accident at a Chinese high-security biomedical laboratory in Wuhan.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720
    isam said:

    Foxy said:

    isam said:
    Yes, and I think that there will be a number of non cancer deaths too, in poorly controlled diabetes and heart disease etc, but in the longer term.

    It is not that we are blocking these services, more that the patients are not coming.

    Todays clinic was better, only 25% DNA.
    Is a post treatment biopsy for non invasive bladder cancer that important? My dads got cancelled because of the covid crisis. He doesn’t want to go near a hospital now anyway as he is nervous he’ll catch it

    It was post chemo injections, he’d already got an all clear after the op I think
    Yes it is, but reasonable to defer for a couple of months.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720
    isam said:

    RobD said:
    Will dentists be allowed to re open to treat those suffering from gnashed teeth?
    They need equipping with PPE first. Everything they do creates an aerosol, and mouths are peak virus.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,225
    This is an interesting read:

    How China is attempting to prevent a second wave of infections
    https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2020/04/29/asia-pacific/china-attempting-prevent-second-wave-infections/

    Note the massive difference in policy between Beijing and Shanghai (for economic/political rather than medical reasons).
    The comparative outcomes (if reported) will be interesting.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,653
    We’ll find out later today whether Johnson is fit enough to fulfil his role as Prime Minister. Will he turn up for PMQs?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,225
    India's Serum Institute to make millions of potential coronavirus vaccine doses
    http://m.koreatimes.co.kr/pages/article.asp?newsIdx=288720
    The Serum Institute of India said on Tuesday it plans this year to produce up to 60 million doses of a potential vaccine against the new coronavirus that is under clinical trial in Britain.

    Serum, the world's largest maker of vaccines by volume, is mass-producing the vaccine candidate developed by the University of Oxford, which started testing it on humans last week, and is a leader in the global race to develop an antidote to the novel coronavirus. ...
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,729

    isam said:

    dixiedean said:

    isam said:

    RobD said:
    Will dentists be allowed to re open to treat those suffering from gnashed teeth?
    Hope so. Half of one my molars fell out on the Friday. I got an appointment for the Monday, but things changed utterly that weekend.
    No pain thankfully thus far, but it is a worry.
    I had a massive filling fall out a week before lockdown. Thankfully it hasn’t given me any grief... yet!
    If pain starts, the official advice is pretty depressing. Take painkillers, keep upping it until you are max'ed out....then live with it until you run into real trouble e.g. your face swells up.

    If you do get referred to an UDC, you won't get a filling, it is pretty much removal or removal.

    When dentists finally do reopen, I think they are going to need to work 7 days a week, 12hr+ days to try and clear the backlog.
    Dounmbt it you will have just missed a checkup and or hygenist appt for most of us..
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695
    Foxy said:

    isam said:

    RobD said:
    Will dentists be allowed to re open to treat those suffering from gnashed teeth?
    They need equipping with PPE first. Everything they do creates an aerosol, and mouths are peak virus.
    Don't they use PPE as a matter of course? My dentist always seems to have gloves, mask and visor on.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,225
    Interesting, if true.
    ... According to two people involved, Cummings played far more than a bystander’s role at a crucial SAGE meeting on March 18, as the panel discussed social distancing options to tackle the Covid-19 outbreak.

    Speaking on condition of anonymity because the meetings are private, the people said Cummings asked why a lockdown was not being imposed sooner, swayed the discussion toward faster action, and made clear he thought pubs and restaurants should be closed within two days. They then were....

  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720
    edited April 2020

    Foxy said:

    isam said:

    RobD said:
    Will dentists be allowed to re open to treat those suffering from gnashed teeth?
    They need equipping with PPE first. Everything they do creates an aerosol, and mouths are peak virus.
    Don't they use PPE as a matter of course? My dentist always seems to have gloves, mask and visor on.
    That is adequate for most medical care, but not for aerosol generating procedures under current guidelines.

    ENT and anything involving general anaesthesia are in the same boat. Surgical throughput is going to drop noticeably.

    Section 8.1:

    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/wuhan-novel-coronavirus-infection-prevention-and-control/covid-19-personal-protective-equipment-ppe
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,999
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Jonathan said:

    RobD said:

    tyson said:

    UK behind Germany and France on military spending ...
    https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1255256405835157505?s=21

    If we'd spent a fraction more of this budget on something like....hmmm let me think...pandemic planning....

    Instead we spent our cash on nuclear weapons....
    With that attitude we'd probably be speaking Russian right now. Or worse, French.
    Award for one of the weirdest arguments mounted on PB ever. Nicely done. No nukes, speak French.
    To be fair to me 1) it was a joke, and 2) i was referring to the attitude.
    We created our own nuclear weapons because of the Americans, not the Russians.
    True, speaking american is perhaps the most frightening prospect.
    Yeah man, that would be some bad shit.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164
    TimT said:

    isam said:

    dixiedean said:

    isam said:

    RobD said:
    Will dentists be allowed to re open to treat those suffering from gnashed teeth?
    Hope so. Half of one my molars fell out on the Friday. I got an appointment for the Monday, but things changed utterly that weekend.
    No pain thankfully thus far, but it is a worry.
    I had a massive filling fall out a week before lockdown. Thankfully it hasn’t given me any grief... yet!
    I had a tooth break in January. In late Feb, in the chair watching the massive aerosol generation as the dentist drilled the tooth, I asked him what he was going to do, and what the advice was from the American Dental Association. He did not know, and had received none.
    I lost a filling a couple of weeks ago - so far no pain but......
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,999
    Nigelb said:

    Putin can fool some of the public all of the time....

    https://twitter.com/AndyBiotech/status/1255147536358105092

    I bet at least some of them also simultaneously believe Covid-19 is a hoax got up by Soros and the lizard people elite.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,914
    Bad that a SPAD should have such a large effect on the independant scientific committee.
    Good that in this case he was pushing for earlier lockdown.
    The question is was this a change from an earlier position? Someone must have come up with the loony 'herd immunity' approach - and the UK was slower than some other nations in entering lockdown.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Nigelb said:

    Interesting, if true.
    ... According to two people involved, Cummings played far more than a bystander’s role at a crucial SAGE meeting on March 18, as the panel discussed social distancing options to tackle the Covid-19 outbreak.

    Speaking on condition of anonymity because the meetings are private, the people said Cummings asked why a lockdown was not being imposed sooner, swayed the discussion toward faster action, and made clear he thought pubs and restaurants should be closed within two days. They then were....

    It is interesting.

    I'm curious if his critics think we supposed to be annoyed that Cummings got involved and we should have stayed out of lockdown? Or are we supposed to be annoyed that he left it until then to not be a bystander?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,932

    We’ll find out later today whether Johnson is fit enough to fulfil his role as Prime Minister. Will he turn up for PMQs?

    If Shadsy opens a market, the form book suggests backing the serial scrutiny-dodger to dodge scrutiny.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,002

    We’ll find out later today whether Johnson is fit enough to fulfil his role as Prime Minister.

    That's not really in doubt, is it?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,002

  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,357
    TGOHF666 said:
    The unionists favourite "rent a quote" dummy.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    rpjs said:

    Barnesian said:
    Not so surprising, NC is following Virginia in swiftly turning from blue to red due to a burgeoning tech sector attracting highly-educated, liberal voters.
    And because North Carolina is now slightly less gerrymandered by the GOP than it used to be.
    Gerrymandering only really affects the Congressional level not the State level for the White House.

    Also presumably rpjs meant its turning from red to blue? Remember that in America it is the GOP that is red, liberals are blue. I'm quite happy being a blue in politics on both sides of the pond as it stands despite being a red in sport.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,932

    Nigelb said:

    Interesting, if true.
    ... According to two people involved, Cummings played far more than a bystander’s role at a crucial SAGE meeting on March 18, as the panel discussed social distancing options to tackle the Covid-19 outbreak.

    Speaking on condition of anonymity because the meetings are private, the people said Cummings asked why a lockdown was not being imposed sooner, swayed the discussion toward faster action, and made clear he thought pubs and restaurants should be closed within two days. They then were....

    It is interesting.

    I'm curious if his critics think we supposed to be annoyed that Cummings got involved and we should have stayed out of lockdown? Or are we supposed to be annoyed that he left it until then to not be a bystander?
    So we've moved from DC wasn't there via it's normal for SpAds to attend, then DC was there but said nothing, to DC is effectively running the show but the end justifies the means.
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688

    Nigelb said:

    Interesting, if true.
    ... According to two people involved, Cummings played far more than a bystander’s role at a crucial SAGE meeting on March 18, as the panel discussed social distancing options to tackle the Covid-19 outbreak.

    Speaking on condition of anonymity because the meetings are private, the people said Cummings asked why a lockdown was not being imposed sooner, swayed the discussion toward faster action, and made clear he thought pubs and restaurants should be closed within two days. They then were....

    It is interesting.

    I'm curious if his critics think we supposed to be annoyed that Cummings got involved and we should have stayed out of lockdown? Or are we supposed to be annoyed that he left it until then to not be a bystander?
    Cummings had far more sense than the scientists then.

    Thank goodness he was there.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,999
    Nigelb said:

    Interesting, if true.
    ... According to two people involved, Cummings played far more than a bystander’s role at a crucial SAGE meeting on March 18, as the panel discussed social distancing options to tackle the Covid-19 outbreak.

    Speaking on condition of anonymity because the meetings are private, the people said Cummings asked why a lockdown was not being imposed sooner, swayed the discussion toward faster action, and made clear he thought pubs and restaurants should be closed within two days. They then were....

    Speaking on conditions of anonymity? There's a turn up for the books and no mistake.

    I'm slightly mystified that if the meetings are private why these 2 people should remain anonymous while Dom should not.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Nigelb said:

    Interesting, if true.
    ... According to two people involved, Cummings played far more than a bystander’s role at a crucial SAGE meeting on March 18, as the panel discussed social distancing options to tackle the Covid-19 outbreak.

    Speaking on condition of anonymity because the meetings are private, the people said Cummings asked why a lockdown was not being imposed sooner, swayed the discussion toward faster action, and made clear he thought pubs and restaurants should be closed within two days. They then were....

    It is interesting.

    I'm curious if his critics think we supposed to be annoyed that Cummings got involved and we should have stayed out of lockdown? Or are we supposed to be annoyed that he left it until then to not be a bystander?
    So we've moved from DC wasn't there via it's normal for SpAds to attend, then DC was there but said nothing, to DC is effectively running the show but the end justifies the means.
    I don't think DC is running the show but I'm curious what the line is? Are we meant to be angry at him for getting involved and turning us towards lockdown, or angry at him for not getting involved sooner.

    Though if the scientists were already contemplating lockdown it seems reasonable for a SPAD to get involved at that point as then it becomes a matter of how to do the lockdown more than whether the lockdown is done or not - I note the usage of the word "sooner".
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,002
    Here's the pivot...

    Dom was there, but not a member.

    There's no way Dom influenced the committee.

    Isn't it great that Dom influenced the committee...

    Spin any harder you'll get dizzy, lads.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,357
    MaxPB said:

    HYUFD said:

    Ave_it said:

    MikeL said:

    Surely the answer is that Boris will put up taxes to some degree but it'll be ones that don't generate headlines and are less likely to be noticed.

    So that means tax rates do not go up (for any tax). Instead what you do is:

    - Freeze allowances
    - Reduce reliefs

    I would have thought a pretty significant cut to relief for pension contributions is the most obvious big revenue earner - maybe restrict to basic rate.

    Also cut CGT allowance from £12,000 to say £1,500, reduce ISA limit from £20,000 to say £10,000.

    Next maybe scrap 0% rate on first £5,000 of savings income, scrap £2,000 dividend allowance.

    The list goes on - lots of things you can do that most people don't have faintest idea about.

    All good ideas - also get rid of the marriage allowance (why do we have this, its not the 1950s), scrap the Triple Lock. I would freeze all welfare and state pension for five years.

    And make self employed pay their fair rate of NI.


    The Tory manifesto contained a commitment to keep the triple lock, Tory members also strongly support the marriage allowance.

    We have a Tory majority and it will pursue Tory policies
    " I would freeze all welfare"

    They've been frozen for years. Now you to freeze them some more?
    Welfare includes the state pension! Freeze that for five years.
    F***ing bollox, the state pension has been paid for many times over, it is not called a "PENSION" for nothing. 35 years of toil to get the pitiful amount of your money back. I would like to see you living on the state pension , you would not be quite so smug then.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720

    Nigelb said:

    Interesting, if true.
    ... According to two people involved, Cummings played far more than a bystander’s role at a crucial SAGE meeting on March 18, as the panel discussed social distancing options to tackle the Covid-19 outbreak.

    Speaking on condition of anonymity because the meetings are private, the people said Cummings asked why a lockdown was not being imposed sooner, swayed the discussion toward faster action, and made clear he thought pubs and restaurants should be closed within two days. They then were....

    Speaking on conditions of anonymity? There's a turn up for the books and no mistake.

    I'm slightly mystified that if the meetings are private why these 2 people should remain anonymous while Dom should not.
    Perhaps we need to wait to hear from "Downing St sources"
  • ClippPClippP Posts: 1,905

    Nigelb said:

    Interesting, if true.
    ... According to two people involved, Cummings played far more than a bystander’s role at a crucial SAGE meeting on March 18, as the panel discussed social distancing options to tackle the Covid-19 outbreak.
    Speaking on condition of anonymity because the meetings are private, the people said Cummings asked why a lockdown was not being imposed sooner, swayed the discussion toward faster action, and made clear he thought pubs and restaurants should be closed within two days. They then were....
    It is interesting.
    I'm curious if his critics think we supposed to be annoyed that Cummings got involved and we should have stayed out of lockdown? Or are we supposed to be annoyed that he left it until then to not be a bystander?
    Surely the scientific committee should be concerned with assessing the scientific evidence (where Cummings obviously has no role) while the political and practical decisions rest with the Cabinet (where Cummings has the ear of Johnson).

    The problem is that this pathetic government is using the scientific input to justify its political decisions, when that evidence is already contaminated by Cummings.

    So Government decisions are really just a matter of caprice and prejudice on the part of our political overlords.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,932
    From the report:
    SIPRI’s estimate of the UK’s military expenditure in 2019 is significantly lower than the government’s, which insists on including non-military items such as pensions.
    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11503058/britain-spending-military-overtaken-germany/

    So SIPRI is unimpressed by George Osborne's wheeze to fiddle the figures. I expect CCHQ will soon issue a memo as to why pensions really do count and anyway just imagine how much worse things would be under Jeremy Corbyn.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,250
    Bit of a not-a-story.

    The difference between 6 and 8 is 1.4 billions dollars out of 50 billion, leaving aside how the numbers are generated.

  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,357
    MikeL said:

    How many people know this?

    Pensioner has gross income:

    Pension £12,500
    Dividends £7,000
    Bank interest £1,000

    Total £20,500

    Tax Bill = NIL!

    Personal allowance £12,500. Dividend allowance £2,000. Interest allowance £1,000. And finally the clever one that nobody knows about: Starter rate 0% on first £5,000 of (remaining) savings income.

    Plus of course they could have large amounts of ISA income and gains all also tax free!

    Another grfeedy rich Tory halfwit. Wait till you are a pensioner you moronic halfwit.

    State pension is nowhere near £12500
    How many pensioners get any dividends never mind £7000
    Very very few pensioners will get any bank interest , at 0.1% how much do you need to get £1K in interest.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,191
    malcolmg said:

    TGOHF666 said:
    The unionists favourite "rent a quote" dummy.
    Dummy indeed, doesn't seem to understand the point of covering your nose and mouth is to slow the virus on the way out.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,653
    If Cummings was advocating shutdown at the 18th March Sage meeting, what was he advocating at the previous ones? At least we now know that he wasn’t there as a mere observer.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited April 2020
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Ave_it said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    This IHT story is a trial balloon. Expect many more such. The government is softeing up the Press and the reasonably off for the inevitable unavoidable fact that they are going to have to put their hands in their pockets.
    In some way shape or form.
    The numbers don't work otherwise. Either economically or electorally.

    Not happening, Boris is ideologically opposed to putting up tax or cutting spending, he is not George Osborne but a Berlusconi style populist.

    Boris and Sunak will borrow indefinitely rather than put up tax or cut spending on the police, schools or NHS
    I think you may find this has changed and taxes will rise but so will spending on the NHS
    Taxes will not rise as the Tory manifesto Tory MPs were elected on made clear, Boris knows that and with a Tory majority of 80 Tory MPs elected on that manifesto will vote down any tax rises anyway
    HYUFD - the situation has changed. Taxes will need to rise and significantly to recover the nation's finance. Hopefully the focus will be on unearned wealth so increases to IHT, more tax on investment properties etc. But generally we all will have to pay more.

    Plus - if the government is brave enough - a freeze on welfare, hopefully Boris' 80 seat majority will help with this!


    The situation has not changed. Taxes will not rise and certainly not deeply unpopular taxes like IHT.

    For the umpteenth time Boris is a populist not a deficit hawk like Osborne or May
    What about a digital tax on Amazon etc.? Even if they do just pass the tax on to UK consumers, it still wouldn't be that unpopular.
    Maybe but would likely need to be G7 wide to be effective
    Why on earth would it need to be G7-wide to be an effective way to raise money for the exchequer. What on odd idea.
    As Amazon could simply move many of its warehouses and its offices to another G7 or G20 nation to avoid the tax
    Doesn't matter if it was a tax on sales in this country. And good luck getting Prime next day delivery from a warehouse in another nation.
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    malcolmg said:

    TGOHF666 said:
    The unionists favourite "rent a quote" dummy.
    Indeed.

    And my mask has an excellent PM 2.5 N95 filter, with washable spares.

    This whole face mask business is a disgrace. The reason Hancock is slithering behind 'poor evidence' is because there aren't enough masks to go round and they want to keep the ones they have for the NHS. That's because the Government is shit.

    There has not been, nor will there ever be, a randomised double-blind face mask trial. And that is what is meant by 'poor evidence' or 'evidence is weak' so it's thoroughly disingenuous of Hancock. Living in this country puts me at greater risk.

    Face masks are a no brainer. Wear one. Preferably a good one. Don't touch your face whilst wearing it and still keep your social distancing.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,357

    Scott_xP said:
    That can't be right. The Corbyn Cult Left tweet every night that he is a eugenics nut who wants to kill all pensioners.

    You never know given Tories are such practiced liars, assume they must tell the truth an odd time.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,729
    malcolmg said:

    MikeL said:

    How many people know this?

    Pensioner has gross income:

    Pension £12,500
    Dividends £7,000
    Bank interest £1,000

    Total £20,500

    Tax Bill = NIL!

    Personal allowance £12,500. Dividend allowance £2,000. Interest allowance £1,000. And finally the clever one that nobody knows about: Starter rate 0% on first £5,000 of (remaining) savings income.

    Plus of course they could have large amounts of ISA income and gains all also tax free!

    Another grfeedy rich Tory halfwit. Wait till you are a pensioner you moronic halfwit.

    State pension is nowhere near £12500
    How many pensioners get any dividends never mind £7000
    Very very few pensioners will get any bank interest , at 0.1% how much do you need to get £1K in interest.
    He never said that. New state pension is about 9100 but some get less. Pension income from snywhere else could be zero to loads.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    malcolmg said:

    MikeL said:

    How many people know this?

    Pensioner has gross income:

    Pension £12,500
    Dividends £7,000
    Bank interest £1,000

    Total £20,500

    Tax Bill = NIL!

    Personal allowance £12,500. Dividend allowance £2,000. Interest allowance £1,000. And finally the clever one that nobody knows about: Starter rate 0% on first £5,000 of (remaining) savings income.

    Plus of course they could have large amounts of ISA income and gains all also tax free!

    Another grfeedy rich Tory halfwit. Wait till you are a pensioner you moronic halfwit.

    State pension is nowhere near £12500
    How many pensioners get any dividends never mind £7000
    Very very few pensioners will get any bank interest , at 0.1% how much do you need to get £1K in interest.
    And I think it's wrong anyway, as he has overlooked the taper above £18,500
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,999
    kamski said:

    malcolmg said:

    TGOHF666 said:
    The unionists favourite "rent a quote" dummy.
    Dummy indeed, doesn't seem to understand the point of covering your nose and mouth is to slow the virus on the way out.
    I won't comment on the dummy bit, but the prof is (was) a bacteriologist rather than a virologist, so I'm not sure why he's being wheeled out as an expert on the current situation.
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,366
    edited April 2020
    For some on SAGE, I would have thought that anonymity for some of the experts might be a good thing. Not everyone is a political animal. On-line nastiness isn't unkown especially if you have kids at school.
  • TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052
    Remember when it was all about a South Korea and Germany and testing ?

    https://twitter.com/chrismusson/status/1254721061406588928?s=21
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,608

    Nigelb said:

    Interesting, if true.
    ... According to two people involved, Cummings played far more than a bystander’s role at a crucial SAGE meeting on March 18, as the panel discussed social distancing options to tackle the Covid-19 outbreak.

    Speaking on condition of anonymity because the meetings are private, the people said Cummings asked why a lockdown was not being imposed sooner, swayed the discussion toward faster action, and made clear he thought pubs and restaurants should be closed within two days. They then were....

    It is interesting.

    I'm curious if his critics think we supposed to be annoyed that Cummings got involved and we should have stayed out of lockdown? Or are we supposed to be annoyed that he left it until then to not be a bystander?
    Cummings had far more sense than the scientists then.

    Thank goodness he was there.
    When were the scientists proposing a lockdown? Perhaps somebody will leak that, and everybody can start modelling how many lives Cummings has saved....
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,608
    Moth du Jour: Cream-spot Tiger. Starting to get the real "Ooooh!" moths coming through now. This from my Devon garden last night.


  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    The Fleet Solid Support Ships (needed for carrier deployments) and the Littoral Strike Ships (needed after The Fireplace Salesman got excited when seeing some swol SF operators with tats and wraparound Oakleys aboard USS Puller) have now both been scrapped. We've got a new program called Multi Role Support Ships which will do both roles not as well but with less hulls.

    RFA Argus is soon going to retire with no replacement shortly so we're soon going to have no PCRS (let's hope we don't need it) or aviation training ship (student pilots will have to land on the Plymouth-Roscoff ferry for practice).

    The tories despise the armed forces.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,729

    If Cummings was advocating shutdown at the 18th March Sage meeting, what was he advocating at the previous ones? At least we now know that he wasn’t there as a mere observer.

    The big question is why were the scientists not advocating lockdown....
This discussion has been closed.