Interesting, if true. ... According to two people involved, Cummings played far more than a bystander’s role at a crucial SAGE meeting on March 18, as the panel discussed social distancing options to tackle the Covid-19 outbreak.
Speaking on condition of anonymity because the meetings are private, the people said Cummings asked why a lockdown was not being imposed sooner, swayed the discussion toward faster action, and made clear he thought pubs and restaurants should be closed within two days. They then were....
It is interesting.
I'm curious if his critics think we supposed to be annoyed that Cummings got involved and we should have stayed out of lockdown? Or are we supposed to be annoyed that he left it until then to not be a bystander?
Cummings had far more sense than the scientists then.
Thank goodness he was there.
When were the scientists proposing a lockdown? Perhaps somebody will leak that, and everybody can start modelling how many lives Cummings has saved....
What was Cummings advocating at previous meetings? The lockdown was always the government’s decision to make.
If Cummings was advocating shutdown at the 18th March Sage meeting, what was he advocating at the previous ones? At least we now know that he wasn’t there as a mere observer.
The big question is why were the scientists not advocating lockdown....
We won’t know what happened unless the minutes are published. What we do know is that the lockdown decision was always one for the government, not the scientists.
No, the new complaint is simply that PB Tories are pivoting once more. From “he wasn’t there” to “he was there but didn’t contribute” to whatever today’s formulation is.
Presuming however that it is true he pushed for lockdown, thank goodness. Points to some real stupidity coming out of SAGE through February.
I did query “herd immunity” at the time, Carlotta, and you told me to STFU because how would I know better than the scientists?
Seems like Cummings and me were agreed on something for once. Glad you came around too in the end.
Will dentists be allowed to re open to treat those suffering from gnashed teeth?
They need equipping with PPE first. Everything they do creates an aerosol, and mouths are peak virus.
Don't they use PPE as a matter of course? My dentist always seems to have gloves, mask and visor on.
Dentists in the Netherlands have been advised that they can take patients for regular care from 20th April according to https://www.lassustandartsen.nl. UK nationals can currently travel to the Netherlands, and in theory non-essential travel is permitted. If someone needs urgent or non-urgent dental treatment it may be possible to have it in the Netherlands, but it would be better to get it done before the end of the EU transition period to avoid the travel restrictions.
I think that Cummings feedback from his focus groups and social media analysis was that older Tory voters were none too keen on dying in the cause of herd immunity. The science didn't change, the feedback from the public did.
But the question is the same whatever Cummings position. What was he doing on a supposedly independent scientific advisory group?
And my mask has an excellent PM 2.5 N95 filter, with washable spares.
This whole face mask business is a disgrace. The reason Hancock is slithering behind 'poor evidence' is because there aren't enough masks to go round and they want to keep the ones they have for the NHS. That's because the Government is shit.
There has not been, nor will there ever be, a randomised double-blind face mask trial. And that is what is meant by 'poor evidence' or 'evidence is weak' so it's thoroughly disingenuous of Hancock. Living in this country puts me at greater risk.
Face masks are a no brainer. Wear one. Preferably a good one. Don't touch your face whilst wearing it and still keep your social distancing.
If that's the case why don't the World Health Organisation recommend them?
And my mask has an excellent PM 2.5 N95 filter, with washable spares.
This whole face mask business is a disgrace. The reason Hancock is slithering behind 'poor evidence' is because there aren't enough masks to go round and they want to keep the ones they have for the NHS. That's because the Government is shit.
There has not been, nor will there ever be, a randomised double-blind face mask trial. And that is what is meant by 'poor evidence' or 'evidence is weak' so it's thoroughly disingenuous of Hancock. Living in this country puts me at greater risk.
Face masks are a no brainer. Wear one. Preferably a good one. Don't touch your face whilst wearing it and still keep your social distancing.
If that's the case why don't the World Health Organisation recommend them?
Because they only go on strong evidence and there has not been, nor will there ever be, a randomised double-blind face mask trial. Ergo, you ain't going to see the WHO rubber stamp them.
For everyone else sane and sensible in the world they are a no-brainer.
And my mask has an excellent PM 2.5 N95 filter, with washable spares.
This whole face mask business is a disgrace. The reason Hancock is slithering behind 'poor evidence' is because there aren't enough masks to go round and they want to keep the ones they have for the NHS. That's because the Government is shit.
There has not been, nor will there ever be, a randomised double-blind face mask trial. And that is what is meant by 'poor evidence' or 'evidence is weak' so it's thoroughly disingenuous of Hancock. Living in this country puts me at greater risk.
Face masks are a no brainer. Wear one. Preferably a good one. Don't touch your face whilst wearing it and still keep your social distancing.
If that's the case why don't the World Health Organisation recommend them?
Because most people touch their face, don't wear them properly and don't know how to use them.
No, the new complaint is simply that PB Tories are pivoting once more. From “he wasn’t there” to “he was there but didn’t contribute” to whatever today’s formulation is.
Presuming however that it is true he pushed for lockdown, thank goodness. Points to some real stupidity coming out of SAGE through February.
I did query “herd immunity” at the time, Carlotta, and you told me to STFU because how would I know better than the scientists?
Seems like Cummings and me were agreed on something for once. Glad you came around too in the end.
Cummings was attending SAGE meetings way before 18th March. We now know he had the power to lead scientists to certain conclusions. So why wasn’t he leading them to recommending lockdown until long after the virus had arrived in the UK?
And my mask has an excellent PM 2.5 N95 filter, with washable spares.
This whole face mask business is a disgrace. The reason Hancock is slithering behind 'poor evidence' is because there aren't enough masks to go round and they want to keep the ones they have for the NHS. That's because the Government is shit.
There has not been, nor will there ever be, a randomised double-blind face mask trial. And that is what is meant by 'poor evidence' or 'evidence is weak' so it's thoroughly disingenuous of Hancock. Living in this country puts me at greater risk.
Face masks are a no brainer. Wear one. Preferably a good one. Don't touch your face whilst wearing it and still keep your social distancing.
If that's the case why don't the World Health Organisation recommend them?
Because most people touch their face, don't wear them properly and don't know how to use them.
No, the new complaint is simply that PB Tories are pivoting once more.
Not me. I said it was great that he was there.
Unfortunately some party partisans are so blinded that they pre-judge every action of their sworn enemies without acknowledging that, in this case, not every Conservative action is evil and not every Labour one godly.
If Cummings was advocating shutdown at the 18th March Sage meeting, what was he advocating at the previous ones? At least we now know that he wasn’t there as a mere observer.
The big question is why were the scientists not advocating lockdown....
Because at the time they wanted to push the herd immunity notion.
Interesting, if true. ... According to two people involved, Cummings played far more than a bystander’s role at a crucial SAGE meeting on March 18, as the panel discussed social distancing options to tackle the Covid-19 outbreak.
Speaking on condition of anonymity because the meetings are private, the people said Cummings asked why a lockdown was not being imposed sooner, swayed the discussion toward faster action, and made clear he thought pubs and restaurants should be closed within two days. They then were....
It is interesting.
I'm curious if his critics think we supposed to be annoyed that Cummings got involved and we should have stayed out of lockdown? Or are we supposed to be annoyed that he left it until then to not be a bystander?
Shows the scientists they have on their panel are anything but SAGE, rather a bunch of tossers. Government lackeys should still not be gerrymandering supposed scientific panels even if they are handpicked useless no mark tossers.
No, the new complaint is simply that PB Tories are pivoting once more. From “he wasn’t there” to “he was there but didn’t contribute” to whatever today’s formulation is.
Presuming however that it is true he pushed for lockdown, thank goodness. Points to some real stupidity coming out of SAGE through February.
I did query “herd immunity” at the time, Carlotta, and you told me to STFU because how would I know better than the scientists?
Seems like Cummings and me were agreed on something for once. Glad you came around too in the end.
The seamless pivoting and memory holing by the pundit class (and some on here) on this whole thing is astounding.
They still have the original tweets and articles up smugly telling people calling for lockdown idiots and why Herd Immunity and keeping everything open was the subtle genius of intellectual giants.
I think that Cummings feedback from his focus groups and social media analysis was that older Tory voters were none too keen on dying in the cause of herd immunity. The science didn't change, the feedback from the public did.
But the question is the same whatever Cummings position. What was he doing on a supposedly independent scientific advisory group?
Are we to gather now that HMG doesn't always follow the science? Huge if true.
If Cummings was advocating shutdown at the 18th March Sage meeting, what was he advocating at the previous ones? At least we now know that he wasn’t there as a mere observer.
The big question is why were the scientists not advocating lockdown....
We won’t know what happened unless the minutes are published. What we do know is that the lockdown decision was always one for the government, not the scientists.
Poor SO.. use the Scientists to beat the Givt when it suits and not when it doesn't. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
And my mask has an excellent PM 2.5 N95 filter, with washable spares.
This whole face mask business is a disgrace. The reason Hancock is slithering behind 'poor evidence' is because there aren't enough masks to go round and they want to keep the ones they have for the NHS. That's because the Government is shit.
There has not been, nor will there ever be, a randomised double-blind face mask trial. And that is what is meant by 'poor evidence' or 'evidence is weak' so it's thoroughly disingenuous of Hancock. Living in this country puts me at greater risk.
Face masks are a no brainer. Wear one. Preferably a good one. Don't touch your face whilst wearing it and still keep your social distancing.
If that's the case why don't the World Health Organisation recommend them?
Because most people touch their face, don't wear them properly and don't know how to use them.
So for good reason.
That's a shit reason. It's called education. Every daily briefing there should be a medic showing how to put one on, how to wear it, what to do and what not to do. Until the culture of face mask wearing in this country changes.
They can't do that because a) they are shit and have no coherent plans for anything and b) they don't have sufficient masks for the public. So instead they press this rubbish that everyone must stay indoors.
Harry is filling in for Carlotta whilst she is on vacation , usual dribble from lickspittle unionists raging that Sturgeon is making the Westminster lot look even worse than they are. Failed miserably in England so they are trying to deflect in other ways and use their usual scapegoat to blame for all their ills and incompetence.
If Cummings was advocating shutdown at the 18th March Sage meeting, what was he advocating at the previous ones? At least we now know that he wasn’t there as a mere observer.
The big question is why were the scientists not advocating lockdown....
I think that there has always been scientific debate on how effective different social policies are on disease control. Indeed, I think that SAGE thought the measures would only reduce the peak by 25% or so. That may well be proving correct. Whether that 25% drop prevented overloading at some hospitals is a related point.
The Royal Society of Medicine have been doing some interesting free video seminars, up on YouTube. Todays at 1130 on hydroxychloroquine.
I think that Cummings feedback from his focus groups and social media analysis was that older Tory voters were none too keen on dying in the cause of herd immunity. The science didn't change, the feedback from the public did.
But the question is the same whatever Cummings position. What was he doing on a supposedly independent scientific advisory group?
Are we to gather now that HMG doesn't always follow the science? Huge if true.
Remember BSE and CJD? How many times scientists told us it was 'impossible' that it could cross into the human chain.
They're a menace sometimes and should never ever be treated as gods. Thank goodness for Dom Cummings I say.
Dummy indeed, doesn't seem to understand the point of covering your nose and mouth is to slow the virus on the way out.
I won't comment on the dummy bit, but the prof is (was) a bacteriologist rather than a virologist, so I'm not sure why he's being wheeled out as an expert on the current situation.
Tame unionist nutter TUD, more doolally than he used to be as well.
I think that Cummings feedback from his focus groups and social media analysis was that older Tory voters were none too keen on dying in the cause of herd immunity. The science didn't change, the feedback from the public did.
But the question is the same whatever Cummings position. What was he doing on a supposedly independent scientific advisory group?
Are we to gather now that HMG doesn't always follow the science? Huge if true.
And not huge if not true or even sensible. Scientists do nit all agree on the way forward. They are like economists.
I think that Cummings feedback from his focus groups and social media analysis was that older Tory voters were none too keen on dying in the cause of herd immunity. The science didn't change, the feedback from the public did.
But the question is the same whatever Cummings position. What was he doing on a supposedly independent scientific advisory group?
Are we to gather now that HMG doesn't always follow the science? Huge if true.
And not huge if not true or even sensible. Scientists do nit all agree on the way forward. They are like economists.
Pension £12,500 Dividends £7,000 Bank interest £1,000
Total £20,500
Tax Bill = NIL!
Personal allowance £12,500. Dividend allowance £2,000. Interest allowance £1,000. And finally the clever one that nobody knows about: Starter rate 0% on first £5,000 of (remaining) savings income.
Plus of course they could have large amounts of ISA income and gains all also tax free!
Another grfeedy rich Tory halfwit. Wait till you are a pensioner you moronic halfwit.
State pension is nowhere near £12500 How many pensioners get any dividends never mind £7000 Very very few pensioners will get any bank interest , at 0.1% how much do you need to get £1K in interest.
He never said that. New state pension is about 9100 but some get less. Pension income from snywhere else could be zero to loads.
He was talking a lot of bollox, bet he is a greedy Tory barsteward , whining and griping that someone who has worked all their lives might not pay tax on a few K more than his greedy grasping nasty self. He may find out life on pension or unemployment is not so great one day.
I think that Cummings feedback from his focus groups and social media analysis was that older Tory voters were none too keen on dying in the cause of herd immunity. The science didn't change, the feedback from the public did.
But the question is the same whatever Cummings position. What was he doing on a supposedly independent scientific advisory group?
Are we to gather now that HMG doesn't always follow the science? Huge if true.
Remember BSE and CJD? How many times scientists told us it was 'impossible' that it could cross into the human chain.
They're a menace sometimes and should never ever be treated as gods. Thank goodness for Dom Cummings I say.
Really? What scientists have said that BSE and CJD could not cross into humans?
Cross species spread of viruses is as old as our knowledge of viruses. (Though VCJD is a prion not a virus).
Interesting, if true. ... According to two people involved, Cummings played far more than a bystander’s role at a crucial SAGE meeting on March 18, as the panel discussed social distancing options to tackle the Covid-19 outbreak.
Speaking on condition of anonymity because the meetings are private, the people said Cummings asked why a lockdown was not being imposed sooner, swayed the discussion toward faster action, and made clear he thought pubs and restaurants should be closed within two days. They then were....
It is interesting.
I'm curious if his critics think we supposed to be annoyed that Cummings got involved and we should have stayed out of lockdown? Or are we supposed to be annoyed that he left it until then to not be a bystander?
Cummings had far more sense than the scientists then.
Thank goodness he was there.
Is there any grey matter between your flapping lugs.
If Cummings was advocating shutdown at the 18th March Sage meeting, what was he advocating at the previous ones? At least we now know that he wasn’t there as a mere observer.
The big question is why were the scientists not advocating lockdown....
We won’t know what happened unless the minutes are published. What we do know is that the lockdown decision was always one for the government, not the scientists.
Poor SO.. use the Scientists to beat the Givt when it suits and not when it doesn't. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
This IHT story is a trial balloon. Expect many more such. The government is softeing up the Press and the reasonably off for the inevitable unavoidable fact that they are going to have to put their hands in their pockets. In some way shape or form. The numbers don't work otherwise. Either economically or electorally.
Not happening, Boris is ideologically opposed to putting up tax or cutting spending, he is not George Osborne but a Berlusconi style populist.
Boris and Sunak will borrow indefinitely rather than put up tax or cut spending on the police, schools or NHS
A post that will age badly imho.
It won't, in economics terms Boris is George W Bush crossed with Silvio Berlusconi, he believes like Dick Cheney 'deficits don't matter'
You post with such certainty in an ever changing world
Taxes will rise
They will not, it would be the equivalent of George HW Bush betraying his 'no new taxes' pledge of 1988, the Tory base would rightly go mad and Tory MPs revolt en masse. Boris knows that
Taxes will rise and by popular demand.
You are talking of some right wingers in the party like yourself but they will be outvoted by the rest and a general consensus of equity that the wealthy have to pay more
There speaks the sensible wing of the Tory party.
BigG voted Labour in 1997 and 2001, he is a floating voter not the Tory base
I am not a floating voter and those on here will just ridicule you for suggesting it
But we are very different conservatives, you a Trump leaning right winger, and me a compassionate liberal conservative
Indeed over time Boris is likely to leave the right in his wake as he creates a fair society with good public services and sensible tax increases to address the levels of unfairness we see
With apologies for the late comment on this, but what an absurd thing for HYUFD to say. Its almost as if he doesn't want Tory supporters and Tory voters to be identified as such because they aren't as hardcore as he is.
Don't worry Big G - Labour have members with the exact same approach...
Unionists are absolutely beeling, shown up[ as dummies once again so bring out their lickspittle lapdogs to try and rubbish Scotland's position. Will be a real laugh when Bozo has to follow suit, how will they spin that. Tiring times ahead for the unionist lapdogs.
No, the new complaint is simply that PB Tories are pivoting once more. From “he wasn’t there” to “he was there but didn’t contribute” to whatever today’s formulation is.
Presuming however that it is true he pushed for lockdown, thank goodness. Points to some real stupidity coming out of SAGE through February.
I did query “herd immunity” at the time, Carlotta, and you told me to STFU because how would I know better than the scientists?
Seems like Cummings and me were agreed on something for once. Glad you came around too in the end.
Well indeed. If Cummings really was responsible for bringing forward the lockdown by a couple of days, then that was a good thing. Well done Cummings.
However, the question still remains as to why the advice given to the government was so bad (if delaying a lockdown was actually the advice and not a misunderstanding on the part of the government), and why the government persisted in following it for as long as it did.
So number 10 is briefing that number 10 saved the day. 🤷♂️ Well that wraps that up.
No.
Two anonymous committee attendees.
According to two people involved, Cummings played far more than a bystander’s role at a crucial SAGE meeting on March 18, as the panel discussed social distancing options to tackle the Covid-19 outbreak.
Speaking on condition of anonymity because the meetings are private, the people said Cummings asked why a lockdown was not being imposed sooner, swayed the discussion toward faster action, and made clear he thought pubs and restaurants should be closed within two days. They then were.
The prime minister’s office denied that political advisers influenced the experts on the SAGE committee and said it was appropriate for aides to sit in on meetings and to ask questions. The two people who took part in the meeting said Cummings’s actions went further than simply asking for information.
I think that Cummings feedback from his focus groups and social media analysis was that older Tory voters were none too keen on dying in the cause of herd immunity. The science didn't change, the feedback from the public did.
But the question is the same whatever Cummings position. What was he doing on a supposedly independent scientific advisory group?
Are we to gather now that HMG doesn't always follow the science? Huge if true.
Do they know whether their arses point up or down even.
Unionists are absolutely beeling, shown up[ as dummies once again so bring out their lickspittle lapdogs to try and rubbish Scotland's position. Will be a real laugh when Bozo has to follow suit, how will they spin that. Tiring times ahead for the unionist lapdogs.
Are you content with the level of testing in Scotland Malc?
And my mask has an excellent PM 2.5 N95 filter, with washable spares.
This whole face mask business is a disgrace. The reason Hancock is slithering behind 'poor evidence' is because there aren't enough masks to go round and they want to keep the ones they have for the NHS. That's because the Government is shit.
There has not been, nor will there ever be, a randomised double-blind face mask trial. And that is what is meant by 'poor evidence' or 'evidence is weak' so it's thoroughly disingenuous of Hancock. Living in this country puts me at greater risk.
Face masks are a no brainer. Wear one. Preferably a good one. Don't touch your face whilst wearing it and still keep your social distancing.
If that's the case why don't the World Health Organisation recommend them?
Because most people touch their face, don't wear them properly and don't know how to use them.
So for good reason.
LOL, PB scientists promote Cummings theory of bad practice. Baaaa Baaaa Baaaa
And my mask has an excellent PM 2.5 N95 filter, with washable spares.
This whole face mask business is a disgrace. The reason Hancock is slithering behind 'poor evidence' is because there aren't enough masks to go round and they want to keep the ones they have for the NHS. That's because the Government is shit.
There has not been, nor will there ever be, a randomised double-blind face mask trial. And that is what is meant by 'poor evidence' or 'evidence is weak' so it's thoroughly disingenuous of Hancock. Living in this country puts me at greater risk.
Face masks are a no brainer. Wear one. Preferably a good one. Don't touch your face whilst wearing it and still keep your social distancing.
If that's the case why don't the World Health Organisation recommend them?
You rubbish the WHO as being inferior to our great SAGE panel of Cummings and assorted dummies when it suits, now you try to use them as justification for UK ineptness, make up your mind.
Harry is filling in for Carlotta whilst she is on vacation , usual dribble from lickspittle unionists raging that Sturgeon is making the Westminster lot look even worse than they are. Failed miserably in England so they are trying to deflect in other ways and use their usual scapegoat to blame for all their ills and incompetence.
Unionists are absolutely beeling, shown up[ as dummies once again so bring out their lickspittle lapdogs to try and rubbish Scotland's position. Will be a real laugh when Bozo has to follow suit, how will they spin that. Tiring times ahead for the unionist lapdogs.
Are you content with the level of testing in Scotland Malc?
It is as crap as England and is due to Westminster, as long as we are a colony we will not be able to improve. It is no coincidence that as England is the worst large country in the world with the virus , it's colony Scotland is the worst small country in the world with the virus.
Interesting, if true. ... According to two people involved, Cummings played far more than a bystander’s role at a crucial SAGE meeting on March 18, as the panel discussed social distancing options to tackle the Covid-19 outbreak.
Speaking on condition of anonymity because the meetings are private, the people said Cummings asked why a lockdown was not being imposed sooner, swayed the discussion toward faster action, and made clear he thought pubs and restaurants should be closed within two days. They then were....
If this is true, Johnson is clearly not fighting fit and is unable to perform the tasks required of the PM.
Has there ever been a PM who has taken so much time off in his first six months? Not just his illness, but his Feb break in Dorneywood and his fortnight in the Caribbean.
Johnson is the polar opposite of May, he enjoys campaigning but not the day job, while May was vice versa. He is indeed Britain Trump.
Pension £12,500 Dividends £7,000 Bank interest £1,000
Total £20,500
Tax Bill = NIL!
Personal allowance £12,500. Dividend allowance £2,000. Interest allowance £1,000. And finally the clever one that nobody knows about: Starter rate 0% on first £5,000 of (remaining) savings income.
Plus of course they could have large amounts of ISA income and gains all also tax free!
Another grfeedy rich Tory halfwit. Wait till you are a pensioner you moronic halfwit.
State pension is nowhere near £12500 How many pensioners get any dividends never mind £7000 Very very few pensioners will get any bank interest , at 0.1% how much do you need to get £1K in interest.
My state pension is about £7000 - some contracted out element but I don't think anyone would get £12,500.
Harry is filling in for Carlotta whilst she is on vacation , usual dribble from lickspittle unionists raging that Sturgeon is making the Westminster lot look even worse than they are. Failed miserably in England so they are trying to deflect in other ways and use their usual scapegoat to blame for all their ills and incompetence.
malcy doing his daily turn on Fighting Talk's "Defend the Indefensible".....
If this is true, Johnson is clearly not fighting fit and is unable to perform the tasks required of the PM.
Has there ever been a PM who has taken so much time off in his first six months? Not just his illness, but his Feb break in Dorneywood and his fortnight in the Caribbean.
Johnson is the polar opposite of May, he enjoys campaigning but not the day job, while May was vice versa. He is indeed Britain Trump.
Bit early to start on the anti-bacterial gel Foxy - but if you must perhaps try it with a splash of tonic ?
Harry is filling in for Carlotta whilst she is on vacation , usual dribble from lickspittle unionists raging that Sturgeon is making the Westminster lot look even worse than they are. Failed miserably in England so they are trying to deflect in other ways and use their usual scapegoat to blame for all their ills and incompetence.
Some bald facts malc
Scottish Daily Tests
1st April : 1,112 27th April : 1,206
Uk Daily Tests
1st April : 10,657 27th April : 43,590
WTF is going on in Scotland ?
We are doing all right Harry , despite UK best efforts, thank you. Just you worry about England. Will be a bit tough now they are having to put out the real death numbers, I almost feel sorry for Hancock. He was like a rabbit caught in the headlights last night.
Harry is filling in for Carlotta whilst she is on vacation , usual dribble from lickspittle unionists raging that Sturgeon is making the Westminster lot look even worse than they are. Failed miserably in England so they are trying to deflect in other ways and use their usual scapegoat to blame for all their ills and incompetence.
Some bald facts malc
Scottish Daily Tests
1st April : 1,112 27th April : 1,206
Uk Daily Tests
1st April : 10,657 27th April : 43,590
WTF is going on in Scotland ?
We are doing all right Harry , despite UK best efforts, thank you. Just you worry about England. Will be a bit tough now they are having to put out the real death numbers, I almost feel sorry for Hancock. He was like a rabbit caught in the headlights last night.
"First Minister Nicola Sturgeon said Scotland would also be increasing testing efforts." 17:39, 03 April 2020
“We are increasing Scotland's current capacity of at least 1900 tests a day to at least 3500 a day by the end of this month, at the least that is broadly similar, though slightly more ambitious, than the UK pillar one target of 25,000 tests a day," she said.
Kay Burley saying she has been in traffic jams indicating increased use of cars
For once I actually think she has a point and I would expect widespread use of cars to avoid public transport if people have to wear face masks. It will be interesting to see if there is a spike in Scotland after yesterday's change on face masks
Looks as if Germany is experiencing problems and is about to to re-instate stronger regulations and have admitted just now on Sky, they have a serious problem with the shortage of PPE
Seems from that story that Nicola has always said 'capacity', but that her own Minister shot that down and said it meant tests completed. With friends like that...
Will dentists be allowed to re open to treat those suffering from gnashed teeth?
They need equipping with PPE first. Everything they do creates an aerosol, and mouths are peak virus.
Don't they use PPE as a matter of course? My dentist always seems to have gloves, mask and visor on.
Dentists in the Netherlands have been advised that they can take patients for regular care from 20th April according to https://www.lassustandartsen.nl. UK nationals can currently travel to the Netherlands, and in theory non-essential travel is permitted. If someone needs urgent or non-urgent dental treatment it may be possible to have it in the Netherlands, but it would be better to get it done before the end of the EU transition period to avoid the travel restrictions.
Wouldn't the UK regulations prevent you leaving your house for non-essential dental treatment?
Seems from that story that Nicola has always said 'capacity', but that her own Minister shot that down and said it meant tests completed. With friends like that...
She said her plan was "more ambitious" than the Uk targeting 25k per day at that time.
As a general rule, political advisers apparently influencing scientific committees sits ill with me.
That said, (referring also to Mr. Alistair's referenced tweet reply to Dan Hodges), I don't think "Look at that evil Dominic Cummings. Bringing forward the lockdown. Probably saved ten thousand lives" is a killer line.
I think that Cummings feedback from his focus groups and social media analysis was that older Tory voters were none too keen on dying in the cause of herd immunity. The science didn't change, the feedback from the public did.
But the question is the same whatever Cummings position. What was he doing on a supposedly independent scientific advisory group?
Are we to gather now that HMG doesn't always follow the science? Huge if true.
Remember BSE and CJD? How many times scientists told us it was 'impossible' that it could cross into the human chain.
They're a menace sometimes and should never ever be treated as gods. Thank goodness for Dom Cummings I say.
That's just silly. Nobody has been treating the scientists like gods. My guess is that the discussions went something like this:
Scientists: Mr Johnson, you have a choice. According to our current knowledge, the lethality virus is low. If this is the case, a mitigation strategy with no lockdown will work. However, if this is not the case, we'll need a suppression strategy with lockdown (and valuable time will have been lost).
Boris: The first option sounds great! Low economic cost and I'm sure it'll be fine. Let's do that.
One week later.
Scientists: It appears that the virus is indeed more lethal than we thought. Lockdown is now essential, or many, many people will die.
Boris: Oh shit. Well, it'll have to be a lockdown then. We'll do it next week.
Cummings: Er, Boris, maybe now would be a better idea!
If this is true, Johnson is clearly not fighting fit and is unable to perform the tasks required of the PM.
Agreed. Being PM is not a half measures job, that actually would lead to confusion. If he's well enough to take decisions he's well enough to be held to account. If he's not well enough then back on bedrest until he is.
Pension £12,500 Dividends £7,000 Bank interest £1,000
Total £20,500
Tax Bill = NIL!
Personal allowance £12,500. Dividend allowance £2,000. Interest allowance £1,000. And finally the clever one that nobody knows about: Starter rate 0% on first £5,000 of (remaining) savings income.
Plus of course they could have large amounts of ISA income and gains all also tax free!
Another grfeedy rich Tory halfwit. Wait till you are a pensioner you moronic halfwit.
State pension is nowhere near £12500 How many pensioners get any dividends never mind £7000 Very very few pensioners will get any bank interest , at 0.1% how much do you need to get £1K in interest.
My state pension is about £7000 - some contracted out element but I don't think anyone would get £12,500.
My state pension exceeds £12,500 as I did not contract out of SERPS and it was one of the best financial decisions I ever made
If Cummings was advocating shutdown at the 18th March Sage meeting, what was he advocating at the previous ones? At least we now know that he wasn’t there as a mere observer.
The big question is why were the scientists not advocating lockdown....
We won’t know what happened unless the minutes are published. What we do know is that the lockdown decision was always one for the government, not the scientists.
Poor SO.. use the Scientists to beat the Givt when it suits and not when it doesn't. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
I’m afraid that makes absolutely no sense at all.
Well that's alright then. Just diss the message.. The left are using any stick they can to beat the Govt with. When they find that they are wrong, they try another angle.. which is exactly what you have been doing. Voila.
Pension £12,500 Dividends £7,000 Bank interest £1,000
Total £20,500
Tax Bill = NIL!
Personal allowance £12,500. Dividend allowance £2,000. Interest allowance £1,000. And finally the clever one that nobody knows about: Starter rate 0% on first £5,000 of (remaining) savings income.
Plus of course they could have large amounts of ISA income and gains all also tax free!
Another grfeedy rich Tory halfwit. Wait till you are a pensioner you moronic halfwit.
State pension is nowhere near £12500 How many pensioners get any dividends never mind £7000 Very very few pensioners will get any bank interest , at 0.1% how much do you need to get £1K in interest.
My state pension is about £7000 - some contracted out element but I don't think anyone would get £12,500.
I believe maximum is about £9K nowadays and not all get anywhere near it. Plus to get £7K in dividends you would need about £200K and given average private pension pot is well under £100K , that is wrong and even if by miracle you got 2% on savings you need at least £50K to get £1K interest, well beyond the majority of people never mind pensioners. It was claptrap by some whiner thinking he gets taxed a few pence more than someone who has worked 40 years for their pension and typical of the Tories on here, greedy and grasping and always out just for themselves. IF it is not pensioners ( their favourite ) it is the poor and unemployed that are cheating them out of a few extra quid.
If this is true, Johnson is clearly not fighting fit and is unable to perform the tasks required of the PM.
Has there ever been a PM who has taken so much time off in his first six months? Not just his illness, but his Feb break in Dorneywood and his fortnight in the Caribbean.
Johnson is the polar opposite of May, he enjoys campaigning but not the day job, while May was vice versa. He is indeed Britain Trump.
That is just unfair and coming from a doctor it is more surprising
He could have died two weeks ago and not only do you dismiss this, but even compare him to Trump
Unionists are absolutely beeling, shown up[ as dummies once again so bring out their lickspittle lapdogs to try and rubbish Scotland's position. Will be a real laugh when Bozo has to follow suit, how will they spin that. Tiring times ahead for the unionist lapdogs.
Are you content with the level of testing in Scotland Malc?
It is as crap as England and is due to Westminster
Seems from that story that Nicola has always said 'capacity', but that her own Minister shot that down and said it meant tests completed. With friends like that...
She said her plan was "more ambitious" than the Uk targeting 25k per day at that time.
Kay Burley saying she has been in traffic jams indicating increased use of cars
For once I actually think she has a point and I would expect widespread use of cars to avoid public transport if people have to wear face masks. It will be interesting to see if there is a spike in Scotland after yesterday's change on face masks
Looks as if Germany is experiencing problems and is about to to re-instate stronger regulations and have admitted just now on Sky, they have a serious problem with the shortage of PPE
If Cummings was advocating shutdown at the 18th March Sage meeting, what was he advocating at the previous ones? At least we now know that he wasn’t there as a mere observer.
The big question is why were the scientists not advocating lockdown....
We won’t know what happened unless the minutes are published. What we do know is that the lockdown decision was always one for the government, not the scientists.
Poor SO.. use the Scientists to beat the Givt when it suits and not when it doesn't. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
I’m afraid that makes absolutely no sense at all.
Well that's alright then. Just diss the message.. The left are using any stick they can to beat the Govt with. When they find that they are wrong, they try another angle.. which is exactly what you have been doing. Voila.
Where your argument falls down is that when the Observer report on Cummings and SAGE came out I said on here a number of times that it was not credible and that the Observer had got it wrong. If this new report is right, though, it will mean I was wrong.
And my mask has an excellent PM 2.5 N95 filter, with washable spares.
This whole face mask business is a disgrace. The reason Hancock is slithering behind 'poor evidence' is because there aren't enough masks to go round and they want to keep the ones they have for the NHS. That's because the Government is shit.
There has not been, nor will there ever be, a randomised double-blind face mask trial. And that is what is meant by 'poor evidence' or 'evidence is weak' so it's thoroughly disingenuous of Hancock. Living in this country puts me at greater risk.
Face masks are a no brainer. Wear one. Preferably a good one. Don't touch your face whilst wearing it and still keep your social distancing.
If that's the case why don't the World Health Organisation recommend them?
If you're diligent a mask will keep you safer. Not safe, but safer than you otherwise would be.
If this is true, Johnson is clearly not fighting fit and is unable to perform the tasks required of the PM.
Has there ever been a PM who has taken so much time off in his first six months? Not just his illness, but his Feb break in Dorneywood and his fortnight in the Caribbean.
Johnson is the polar opposite of May, he enjoys campaigning but not the day job, while May was vice versa. He is indeed Britain Trump.
That is just unfair and coming from a doctor it is more surprising
He could have died two weeks ago and not only do you dismiss this, but even compare him to Trump
Yes. Surely he has acquired permanent immunity to any form of criticism.
Harry is filling in for Carlotta whilst she is on vacation , usual dribble from lickspittle unionists raging that Sturgeon is making the Westminster lot look even worse than they are. Failed miserably in England so they are trying to deflect in other ways and use their usual scapegoat to blame for all their ills and incompetence.
Some bald facts malc
Scottish Daily Tests
1st April : 1,112 27th April : 1,206
Uk Daily Tests
1st April : 10,657 27th April : 43,590
WTF is going on in Scotland ?
We are doing all right Harry , despite UK best efforts, thank you. Just you worry about England. Will be a bit tough now they are having to put out the real death numbers, I almost feel sorry for Hancock. He was like a rabbit caught in the headlights last night.
Malc, 'the UK' is not making it's 'best efforts' to ensure that Scotland does badly in the coronavirus. For goodness sake.
It won't, in economics terms Boris is George W Bush crossed with Silvio Berlusconi, he believes like Dick Cheney 'deficits don't matter'
Setting the bar high.
Berlusconi for christ's sake. Pure poison for democracy and for functioning institutions, and you are a cheerleader.
As for Cheney...
Unbelievable.
Oh, tell me how they won a few elections. Because that is definitely the most important thing.
They certainly did win elections, Berlusconi won 3 Italian elections, Bush-Cheney won 2 US elections and without winning elections you cannot do anything
If this is true, Johnson is clearly not fighting fit and is unable to perform the tasks required of the PM.
Has there ever been a PM who has taken so much time off in his first six months? Not just his illness, but his Feb break in Dorneywood and his fortnight in the Caribbean.
Johnson is the polar opposite of May, he enjoys campaigning but not the day job, while May was vice versa. He is indeed Britain Trump.
That is just unfair and coming from a doctor it is more surprising
He could have died two weeks ago and not only do you dismiss this, but even compare him to Trump
I am not complaining of his illness, but even before that he was prone to absenteeism, from the prorogation of Parliament onwards. Can you really not see the pattern?
If this is true, Johnson is clearly not fighting fit and is unable to perform the tasks required of the PM.
Has there ever been a PM who has taken so much time off in his first six months? Not just his illness, but his Feb break in Dorneywood and his fortnight in the Caribbean.
Johnson is the polar opposite of May, he enjoys campaigning but not the day job, while May was vice versa. He is indeed Britain Trump.
That is just unfair and coming from a doctor it is more surprising
He could have died two weeks ago and not only do you dismiss this, but even compare him to Trump
On Monday we were told he was raring to go, fighting fit, on top form. Now he may not be well enough to answer questions for 30 minutes.
Unionists are absolutely beeling, shown up[ as dummies once again so bring out their lickspittle lapdogs to try and rubbish Scotland's position. Will be a real laugh when Bozo has to follow suit, how will they spin that. Tiring times ahead for the unionist lapdogs.
Are you content with the level of testing in Scotland Malc?
It is as crap as England and is due to Westminster, as long as we are a colony we will not be able to improve. It is no coincidence that as England is the worst large country in the world with the virus , it's colony Scotland is the worst small country in the world with the virus.
Italy, Spain and France all have more deaths per million than the UK
Comments
Presuming however that it is true he pushed for lockdown, thank goodness. Points to some real stupidity coming out of SAGE through February.
I did query “herd immunity” at the time, Carlotta, and you told me to STFU because how would I know better than the scientists?
Seems like Cummings and me were agreed on something for once. Glad you came around too in the end.
But the question is the same whatever Cummings position. What was he doing on a supposedly independent scientific advisory group?
https://twitter.com/samkarlin/status/1255142771205107715?s=19
For everyone else sane and sensible in the world they are a no-brainer.
Unfortunately some party partisans are so blinded that they pre-judge every action of their sworn enemies without acknowledging that, in this case, not every Conservative action is evil and not every Labour one godly.
The art is to pick your fights.
They still have the original tweets and articles up smugly telling people calling for lockdown idiots and why Herd Immunity and keeping everything open was the subtle genius of intellectual giants.
And yet they claim they never said that.
They can't do that because a) they are shit and have no coherent plans for anything and b) they don't have sufficient masks for the public. So instead they press this rubbish that everyone must stay indoors.
Failed miserably in England so they are trying to deflect in other ways and use their usual scapegoat to blame for all their ills and incompetence.
The Royal Society of Medicine have been doing some interesting free video seminars, up on YouTube. Todays at 1130 on hydroxychloroquine.
This one was good, from a former head of PHE:
https://youtu.be/YgsmKcIpK-M
They're a menace sometimes and should never ever be treated as gods. Thank goodness for Dom Cummings I say.
He may find out life on pension or unemployment is not so great one day.
Cross species spread of viruses is as old as our knowledge of viruses. (Though VCJD is a prion not a virus).
Don't worry Big G - Labour have members with the exact same approach...
Strange omission if so.
However, the question still remains as to why the advice given to the government was so bad (if delaying a lockdown was actually the advice and not a misunderstanding on the part of the government), and why the government persisted in following it for as long as it did.
Two anonymous committee attendees.
According to two people involved, Cummings played far more than a bystander’s role at a crucial SAGE meeting on March 18, as the panel discussed social distancing options to tackle the Covid-19 outbreak.
Speaking on condition of anonymity because the meetings are private, the people said Cummings asked why a lockdown was not being imposed sooner, swayed the discussion toward faster action, and made clear he thought pubs and restaurants should be closed within two days. They then were.
The prime minister’s office denied that political advisers influenced the experts on the SAGE committee and said it was appropriate for aides to sit in on meetings and to ask questions. The two people who took part in the meeting said Cummings’s actions went further than simply asking for information.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-04-28/top-aide-to-u-k-s-johnson-pushed-scientists-to-back-lockdown
Yes.
https://www.gov.uk/coronavirus
It may be capacity constained.
Scottish Daily Tests
1st April : 1,112
27th April : 1,206
Uk Daily Tests
1st April : 10,657
27th April : 43,590
WTF is going on in Scotland ?
It is no coincidence that as England is the worst large country in the world with the virus , it's colony Scotland is the worst small country in the world with the virus.
Well done Dom.
Johnson is the polar opposite of May, he enjoys campaigning but not the day job, while May was vice versa. He is indeed Britain Trump.
https://twitter.com/dansinker/status/1255220187948814343
"First Minister Nicola Sturgeon said Scotland would also be increasing testing efforts." 17:39, 03 April 2020
“We are increasing Scotland's current capacity of at least 1900 tests a day to at least 3500 a day by the end of this month, at the least that is broadly similar, though slightly more ambitious, than the UK pillar one target of 25,000 tests a day," she said.
https://www.strathspey-herald.co.uk/news/scotland-to-ramp-up-covid-19-testing-by-the-end-of-april-195748/
For once I actually think she has a point and I would expect widespread use of cars to avoid public transport if people have to wear face masks. It will be interesting to see if there is a spike in Scotland after yesterday's change on face masks
Looks as if Germany is experiencing problems and is about to to re-instate stronger regulations and have admitted just now on Sky, they have a serious problem with the shortage of PPE
No wonder she has resorted to shopping scarves..
Scottish Daily Tests
1st April : 1,112
27th April : 1,206
Uk Daily Tests
1st April : 10,657
27th April : 43,590
As a general rule, political advisers apparently influencing scientific committees sits ill with me.
That said, (referring also to Mr. Alistair's referenced tweet reply to Dan Hodges), I don't think "Look at that evil Dominic Cummings. Bringing forward the lockdown. Probably saved ten thousand lives" is a killer line.
Scientists: Mr Johnson, you have a choice. According to our current knowledge, the lethality virus is low. If this is the case, a mitigation strategy with no lockdown will work. However, if this is not the case, we'll need a suppression strategy with lockdown (and valuable time will have been lost).
Boris: The first option sounds great! Low economic cost and I'm sure it'll be fine. Let's do that.
One week later.
Scientists: It appears that the virus is indeed more lethal than we thought. Lockdown is now essential, or many, many people will die.
Boris: Oh shit. Well, it'll have to be a lockdown then. We'll do it next week.
Cummings: Er, Boris, maybe now would be a better idea!
Berlusconi for christ's sake. Pure poison for democracy and for functioning institutions, and you are a cheerleader.
As for Cheney...
Unbelievable.
Oh, tell me how they won a few elections. Because that is definitely the most important thing.
https://twitter.com/RyanGirdusky/status/1255265624609239041?s=20
He could have died two weeks ago and not only do you dismiss this, but even compare him to Trump
This one based upon spread in a restaurant too:
https://twitter.com/uh_csc/status/1255280359861899266?s=09
Until we have a reliable antibody test and vaccine, then the garden it is.
Anyway, another beautiful day here.
https://twitter.com/BBCkatyaadler/status/1255398376981626880?s=20