To lighten the mood, when I was in the garden earlier a curlew flew over.
Which was nice.
Also, I've been able to add some IPA to Friday's Abel and Cole order.
Small pleasures count at the moment.
As a cultural Calvinist I increasingly think small pleasures are where it's at.
Back garden, t-shirt (plus other clothing), first Montecristo for about 8 months, Czech beer, sunshine, small birds (which I'm afraid I can't identify) squabbling very noisily in the shrubbery.
Life, let's not get carried away, can be perfectly acceptable.
Gosh, today has been bad tempered here! So many keen to assign blame, when the pandemic has barely started. There will be plenty of time to do the accounting on past mistakes, in the years to come. Personally I'm only interested in whether the present course should be changed. I don't see a lot to criticize there (though some have strong views on mask use, for example) but I may be missing some details.
One thing that I find curious is the apparent policy of discharging patients into care homes. It seems so obviously dangerous, yet they must have thought of this. Do the experts believe that the discharged patients are no longer infectious? If so, I hope they are very sure about this - it would be a bad thing to be mistaken about!
Rachel Aniston wasn’t in Neighbours as far as I know! She was in Friends.
Coincidentally Rachel Friend was in Neighbours, but she is a different woman entirely.
Yes, Friends obvs. But @Big_G_NorthWales said she was also in Neighbours and I wasn't about to argue because for all I know she might have done of those guest appearances that sometimes happens in Albert Square. Think Donald Trump did one?
Not really
I asked if she was in neighbours but to be honest it could be emmerdale or coronation street for as much as I know about her
She hasn't appeared in Coronation Street. Definitely not. Emmerdale? Possibly.
@Big_G_NorthWales Now...all my (Italian) friends...even my mother in law, are homing in on the UK's approach as being catastrophic....this is now being played out on all Italian news....
This is what has prompted my criticism today...not in fact the Times story...but which in itself says it all....where was Boris as the greatest single issue was fast approaching?
CNN...the New York Times..Washington Post....similarly all pointing the fingers at our incompetence...
BBC World News...the same.....
Why have we managed this so appallingly?
Why were we running Cheltenham, having huge indoor concerts, Champions League Matches in March. (when Europe was closed down)..why were we not closing down our airports...even now....why is our testing capacity so poor, even though we have had labs asking to take part....?? So many mistakes...
Why have we ended up with such an inexperienced group of politicians running our Govt who only seem to have been chosen because they sweared loyalty to Brexit....??
Our economy is service led...and dependant on people feeling confident about spending money.....which this pandemic is lasered on....
The incompetence of this Govt will means that the economic impact will be worse than it should have been...but many thousands of people will have died too....
I'm not playing politics...it is just that political leadership matters to people....
It comes down to whether you accept the science you are told or overrule it
The science may or may not be correct but as long as Boris and HMG follows the science there is little else any other poltician would do, hence why Sturgeon, Drakeford and Foster are applying it to the devolved nations
To be honest I have not heard of her, other than is she in neighbours ?
You see, I have no time for celebrities and have no interest in them other than when Beckham's wife rips off our taxpayers, including our nurses, by furloughing her employees, without any thought
Shame on her
She was in Neighbours, yes. Also in that big American show, Friends, that ran for years and years.
As for abuse of the Furlough scheme. No, not great, and I am sure it is rife. Hopefully they factored this into the thinking because it was somewhat inevitable.
You need to excuse my absence of knowledge of any celebrities as I really have no interest in them, indeed I never have
Boris ?
He is a politician
Not his most conspicuous characteristic.
You are very quick to respond when I mention him. Less so when I talk about care homes.
Maybe you did not read my distressing posts earlier today on my son in laws dreadful position with his mother in dementia care, sealed off from her family and celebrating her birthday yesterday on her own with two carers, while her 87 year old husband is in a terrible way falling nearly daily, living with a catheter, and being refused permission to join his wife in her home and refused hospital admission
Also I have years of experiences with various homes, good and bad, with my sister dying in hospital against the express wishes of her dnr as the home did not want her to die there
There is a huge issue with care homes and I am truely sorry at your recent loss
Even if it was Hunt is surely favourite to come back as health secretary.
If I were Hunt I would steer clear of Boris' Government. If it does go horribly wrong he could then be in pole position for next leader.
Boris just won an 80 seat majority, he's going nowhere. Additionally if the government asks Hunt then he has to say yes, at the moment he's carping from the sidelines as chair of the health select committee. It would be a terrible look if he said no to becoming part of the solution.
Macron is right. A supply side monetary response is urgently required by the EU and the EZ in particular. If it does not happen several EZ countries such as Italy and Spain will have an economic disaster of the sort not seen since Hoover. Its not just a question of whether the EU would survive such a calamity, it is a question of whether it should.
Its back to the fundamental problem of the EU - too much, too fast.
The Germans were told by their leaders that their sacrificing wage increase and being frugal led the the German boom. Which reinforced the notion that Germany was carrying the weight in Europe. In reality, the Euro helped Germany immensely at the expense of other parts of Europe.
In those other parts, the leaders talked of reform. But did not rebuild their economic systems to the German model. Because to even start, would to have been thrown from office, with ignominy. Who now remembers the Professor of economics in Athens, who was pitched out of his job, for suggesting in the boom years that the deficit the government was running was a bad idea? Motorcycle boy said he deserved it (and the death threats) at the time... no apology later.
Either the EU converages to carry out the fiscal transfers required, or they do nothing, or they split.
They will do nothing for as long as possible.
There will need to be fiscal transfers if the Euro is to work long term but that is not the current urgency. What is urgent now is that there is an ECB response similar to that of the BoE and the Fed with a major QE injection to protect the economy from very severe economic damage (some is inevitable). For a single currency bloc that means Coronabonds and the ECB essentially underwriting the bond issues of member states to the extent needed to fund the fiscal response to the crisis. Germany and Holland are blocking this because they can afford a much bigger fiscal response and can borrow pretty much unlimited sums at minimal cost. Spain and Italy can't. Its really shameful.
Coronabonds are a fiscal transfer by another name - putting Germany and the other contributors on the line for the others debts.
Yup. What else did they expect when they all agreed to sign up to a single currency?
The politicians lied to each other and to their electorates.
The Greek politicians said they would become good Germans. The Greek politicians told the electorate that there would be reforms. And then did nothing at the slightest sign of opposition. The Germans told their people that everyone in Europe would become fiscally responsible. And that low wage rises were making Germany competitive and strong. And that big fiscal transfers would not be needed. etc. etc.
Everyone triangulated everyone.
Don't forget to name-check Goldman Sachs (with the Greece debacle).
And don't forget that it's not optimal for neighbouring countries with similar economies who trade a lot together all to have their own silly little currencies.
The issue was that they didn't have similar economies.
Which meant that a single currency is like tight mooring a ship to a pier. No slack and the pier gets torn apart as the tide rises and falls.
Agreed for Greece. But not for many of the other EZ countries. Makes perfect sense for them.
Except the Eurozone "core" which is easily compatible with Germany is actually quite small.
One of the reasons that Germany wanted the UK to stay is that without us, the voting mathematics begins to move against them - towards those inclined to looser fiscal policy. And the pressure mounts for more and more QMV on more and more areas.
I would say it is quite large, since you do not need massive convergence for it to make sense, you need a threshold level (70% say), enough to avoid your nice ship and dock analogy, then once hooked up the convergence will naturally trend higher because you are hooked up.
It is very like a marriage. You need a core level of compatibility going in. Nothing like 100% but around 70%. If you have this, and work at it, the union will work. If you don't it will be turbulent and unhappy - and probably end badly.
Only threw that in because YOU did an analogy. Wouldn't have, otherwise. Trying to ween myself off them.
To a certain extent you can force convergence - but all too often, you get a region(s) in a single currency that are aggrieved that economic policy is not made to suit them. Without fiscal transfers, the problems build.
Spain, Italy and Greece are solidly in this group.
The problem is that the number of Germany like countries is quite small. France is not super keen on the German Euro fiscal policy, but goes along with it as part of the cost of being part of the duo that runs the EU.
Gosh, today has been bad tempered here! So many keen to assign blame, when the pandemic has barely started. There will be plenty of time to do the accounting on past mistakes, in the years to come. Personally I'm only interested in whether the present course should be changed. I don't see a lot to criticize there (though some have strong views on mask use, for example) but I may be missing some details.
One thing that I find curious is the apparent policy of discharging patients into care homes. It seems so obviously dangerous, yet they must have thought of this. Do the experts believe that the discharged patients are no longer infectious? If so, I hope they are very sure about this - it would be a bad thing to be mistaken about!
--AS
The social care sector primary purpose now is to take the pressure off hospital beds....old people dying in these homes and infecting others is collateral damage....
@Big_G_NorthWales Now...all my (Italian) friends...even my mother in law, are homing in on the UK's approach as being catastrophic....this is now being played out on all Italian news....
This is what has prompted my criticism today...not in fact the Times story...but which in itself says it all....where was Boris as the greatest single issue was fast approaching?
CNN...the New York Times..Washington Post....similarly all pointing the fingers at our incompetence...
BBC World News...the same.....
Why have we managed this so appallingly?
Why were we running Cheltenham, having huge indoor concerts, Champions League Matches in March. (when Europe was closed down)..why were we not closing down our airports...even now....why is our testing capacity so poor, even though we have had labs asking to take part....?? So many mistakes...
Why have we ended up with such an inexperienced group of politicians running our Govt who only seem to have been chosen because they sweared loyalty to Brexit....??
Our economy is service led...and dependant on people feeling confident about spending money.....which this pandemic is lasered on....
The incompetence of this Govt will means that the economic impact will be worse than it should have been...but many thousands of people will have died too....
I'm not playing politics...it is just that political leadership matters to people....
It comes down to whether you accept the science you are told or overrule it
The science may or may not be correct but as long as Boris and HMG follows the science there is little else any other poltician would do, hence why Sturgeon, Drakeford and Foster are applying it to the devolved nations
To be honest I have not heard of her, other than is she in neighbours ?
You see, I have no time for celebrities and have no interest in them other than when Beckham's wife rips off our taxpayers, including our nurses, by furloughing her employees, without any thought
Shame on her
To be fair to Victoria Beckham she did pay the final 20% of her employees wages the government did not pay
VB Fashion has been close to bankrupt for years. It’s only the directors putting money in (DB) that has kept it afloat.
Sadly, plenty of dead businesses will have been propped up by the government furlough scheme.
The purpose of the furlough scheme was to try and keep the situation static. Which includes the tottering.
There have been a number of the celebrity driven brands closing down or being sold quietly in recent years...
Macron is right. A supply side monetary response is urgently required by the EU and the EZ in particular. If it does not happen several EZ countries such as Italy and Spain will have an economic disaster of the sort not seen since Hoover. Its not just a question of whether the EU would survive such a calamity, it is a question of whether it should.
Its back to the fundamental problem of the EU - too much, too fast.
The Germans were told by their leaders that their sacrificing wage increase and being frugal led the the German boom. Which reinforced the notion that Germany was carrying the weight in Europe. In reality, the Euro helped Germany immensely at the expense of other parts of Europe.
In those other parts, the leaders talked of reform. But did not rebuild their economic systems to the German model. Because to even start, would to have been thrown from office, with ignominy. Who now remembers the Professor of economics in Athens, who was pitched out of his job, for suggesting in the boom years that the deficit the government was running was a bad idea? Motorcycle boy said he deserved it (and the death threats) at the time... no apology later.
Either the EU converages to carry out the fiscal transfers required, or they do nothing, or they split.
They will do nothing for as long as possible.
There will need to be fiscal transfers if the Euro is to work long term but that is not the current urgency. What is urgent now is that there is an ECB response similar to that of the BoE and the Fed with a major QE injection to protect the economy from very severe economic damage (some is inevitable). For a single currency bloc that means Coronabonds and the ECB essentially underwriting the bond issues of member states to the extent needed to fund the fiscal response to the crisis. Germany and Holland are blocking this because they can afford a much bigger fiscal response and can borrow pretty much unlimited sums at minimal cost. Spain and Italy can't. Its really shameful.
Coronabonds are a fiscal transfer by another name - putting Germany and the other contributors on the line for the others debts.
Yup. What else did they expect when they all agreed to sign up to a single currency?
The politicians lied to each other and to their electorates.
The Greek politicians said they would become good Germans. The Greek politicians told the electorate that there would be reforms. And then did nothing at the slightest sign of opposition. The Germans told their people that everyone in Europe would become fiscally responsible. And that low wage rises were making Germany competitive and strong. And that big fiscal transfers would not be needed. etc. etc.
Everyone triangulated everyone.
Don't forget to name-check Goldman Sachs (with the Greece debacle).
And don't forget that it's not optimal for neighbouring countries with similar economies who trade a lot together all to have their own silly little currencies.
Using the term “optimal” in this situation implies a specific set of conditions. These were (and are) not met. Hence the Eurozone is not an optimal currency area
@Big_G_NorthWales Now...all my (Italian) friends...even my mother in law, are homing in on the UK's approach as being catastrophic....this is now being played out on all Italian news....
This is what has prompted my criticism today...not in fact the Times story...but which in itself says it all....where was Boris as the greatest single issue was fast approaching?
CNN...the New York Times..Washington Post....similarly all pointing the fingers at our incompetence...
BBC World News...the same.....
Why have we managed this so appallingly?
Why were we running Cheltenham, having huge indoor concerts, Champions League Matches in March. (when Europe was closed down)..why were we not closing down our airports...even now....why is our testing capacity so poor, even though we have had labs asking to take part....?? So many mistakes...
Why have we ended up with such an inexperienced group of politicians running our Govt who only seem to have been chosen because they sweared loyalty to Brexit....??
Our economy is service led...and dependant on people feeling confident about spending money.....which this pandemic is lasered on....
The incompetence of this Govt will means that the economic impact will be worse than it should have been...but many thousands of people will have died too....
I'm not playing politics...it is just that political leadership matters to people....
It comes down to whether you accept the science you are told or overrule it
The science may or may not be correct but as long as Boris and HMG follows the science there is little else any other poltician would do, hence why Sturgeon, Drakeford and Foster are applying it to the devolved nations
To be honest I have not heard of her, other than is she in neighbours ?
You see, I have no time for celebrities and have no interest in them other than when Beckham's wife rips off our taxpayers, including our nurses, by furloughing her employees, without any thought
Shame on her
To be fair to Victoria Beckham she did pay the final 20% of her employees wages the government did not pay
VB Fashion has been close to bankrupt for years. It’s only the directors putting money in (DB) that has kept it afloat.
Sadly, plenty of dead businesses will have been propped up by the government furlough scheme.
The Beckhams combined net worth is £350 million.
Beyond employing 30 people, the main purpose of VN Fashion is to give Victoria something to do now some of her kids have left home
@Big_G_NorthWales Now...all my (Italian) friends...even my mother in law, are homing in on the UK's approach as being catastrophic....this is now being played out on all Italian news....
This is what has prompted my criticism today...not in fact the Times story...but which in itself says it all....where was Boris as the greatest single issue was fast approaching?
CNN...the New York Times..Washington Post....similarly all pointing the fingers at our incompetence...
BBC World News...the same.....
Why have we managed this so appallingly?
Why were we running Cheltenham, having huge indoor concerts, Champions League Matches in March. (when Europe was closed down)..why were we not closing down our airports...even now....why is our testing capacity so poor, even though we have had labs asking to take part....?? So many mistakes...
Why have we ended up with such an inexperienced group of politicians running our Govt who only seem to have been chosen because they sweared loyalty to Brexit....??
Our economy is service led...and dependant on people feeling confident about spending money.....which this pandemic is lasered on....
The incompetence of this Govt will means that the economic impact will be worse than it should have been...but many thousands of people will have died too....
I'm not playing politics...it is just that political leadership matters to people....
It comes down to whether you accept the science you are told or overrule it
The science may or may not be correct but as long as Boris and HMG follows the science there is little else any other poltician would do, hence why Sturgeon, Drakeford and Foster are applying it to the devolved nations
To be honest I have not heard of her, other than is she in neighbours ?
You see, I have no time for celebrities and have no interest in them other than when Beckham's wife rips off our taxpayers, including our nurses, by furloughing her employees, without any thought
Shame on her
To be fair to Victoria Beckham she did pay the final 20% of her employees wages the government did not pay
VB Fashion has been close to bankrupt for years. It’s only the directors putting money in (DB) that has kept it afloat.
Sadly, plenty of dead businesses will have been propped up by the government furlough scheme.
The Beckhams combined net worth is £350 million.
Beyond employing 30 people, the main purpose of VB Fashion is to give Victoria something to do now some of her kids have left home
@Big_G_NorthWales Now...all my (Italian) friends...even my mother in law, are homing in on the UK's approach as being catastrophic....this is now being played out on all Italian news....
This is what has prompted my criticism today...not in fact the Times story...but which in itself says it all....where was Boris as the greatest single issue was fast approaching?
CNN...the New York Times..Washington Post....similarly all pointing the fingers at our incompetence...
BBC World News...the same.....
Why have we managed this so appallingly?
Why were we running Cheltenham, having huge indoor concerts, Champions League Matches in March. (when Europe was closed down)..why were we not closing down our airports...even now....why is our testing capacity so poor, even though we have had labs asking to take part....?? So many mistakes...
Why have we ended up with such an inexperienced group of politicians running our Govt who only seem to have been chosen because they sweared loyalty to Brexit....??
Our economy is service led...and dependant on people feeling confident about spending money.....which this pandemic is lasered on....
The incompetence of this Govt will means that the economic impact will be worse than it should have been...but many thousands of people will have died too....
I'm not playing politics...it is just that political leadership matters to people....
It comes down to whether you accept the science you are told or overrule it
The science may or may not be correct but as long as Boris and HMG follows the science there is little else any other poltician would do, hence why Sturgeon, Drakeford and Foster are applying it to the devolved nations
To be honest I have not heard of her, other than is she in neighbours ?
You see, I have no time for celebrities and have no interest in them other than when Beckham's wife rips off our taxpayers, including our nurses, by furloughing her employees, without any thought
Shame on her
She was in Neighbours, yes. Also in that big American show, Friends, that ran for years and years.
As for abuse of the Furlough scheme. No, not great, and I am sure it is rife. Hopefully they factored this into the thinking because it was somewhat inevitable.
You need to excuse my absence of knowledge of any celebrities as I really have no interest in them, indeed I never have
Boris ?
He is a politician
Not his most conspicuous characteristic.
You are very quick to respond when I mention him. Less so when I talk about care homes.
Maybe you did not read my distressing posts earlier today on my son in laws dreadful position with his mother in dementia care, sealed off from her family and celebrating her birthday yesterday on her own with two carers, while her 87 year old husband is in a terrible way falling nearly daily, living with a catheter, and being refused permission to join his wife in her home and refused hospital admission
Also I have years of experiences with various homes, good and bad, with my sister dying in hospital against the express wishes of her dnr as the home did not want her to die there
There is a huge issue with care homes and I am truly sorry at your recent loss
I have to confess that I did not, and thank you for that.
My point was that a large number of care homes outbreaks are the direct result of a completely unjustifiable government policy. Which is still in place.
Gosh, today has been bad tempered here! So many keen to assign blame, when the pandemic has barely started. There will be plenty of time to do the accounting on past mistakes, in the years to come. Personally I'm only interested in whether the present course should be changed. I don't see a lot to criticize there (though some have strong views on mask use, for example) but I may be missing some details.
One thing that I find curious is the apparent policy of discharging patients into care homes. It seems so obviously dangerous, yet they must have thought of this. Do the experts believe that the discharged patients are no longer infectious? If so, I hope they are very sure about this - it would be a bad thing to be mistaken about!
--AS
The social care sector primary purpose now is to take the pressure off hospital beds....old people dying in these homes and infecting others is collateral damage....
The NHS couldn't cope without this.....
It is just a matter of fact....
I can't quite follow this theory, though -- aren't there spare beds in hospitals? Quite a lot if you include the pop-up hospitals. I just don't understand why they would do that in this circumstance.
Even if it was Hunt is surely favourite to come back as health secretary.
If I were Hunt I would steer clear of Boris' Government. If it does go horribly wrong he could then be in pole position for next leader.
Boris just won an 80 seat majority, he's going nowhere. Additionally if the government asks Hunt then he has to say yes, at the moment he's carping from the sidelines as chair of the health select committee. It would be a terrible look if he said no to becoming part of the solution.
Your first statement is true.
I hope I am wrong, nonetheless I see the economic landscape going forward to look like a post-apocalyptic nightmare for any incumbent government the world over.
Let us say Boris' Government is no exception to the rule and loses power in disarray in 2024 to a rainbow alliance led by Starmer. Just say things don't get any better. Next election Jeremy Hunt is PM.
So nearly 22,000 tests yesterday but Capacity is now approaching 40,000. Time for all those NHS staff treating Covid 19 patients to get their tests whether or not they are symptomatic
More frontline symptomatic is the next expansion.
A small research project by Stanford using antibody testing concluded that California's true COVID exposure is 50-100 x the reported positives from testing. I take that as good news - it means we'll get to herd immunity quicker and that, even if the implication is that the R0 is higher than previously calculated, that the social distancing is working despite that higher R0
Yet we never reach herd immunity if the worries from the WHO yesterday turn out to be accurate.
Missed it. Is that the worry that asymptomatic and paucisymptomatic persons are not developing high antibody titres?
Can you please stop peddling this herd immunity, wishful thinking nonsense.....it's a vaccine, or a gamechanging anti-viral, or massive testing and contact tracing that gets us out of this....
What do you think a vaccine gives - a clue, it's herd immunity.
Only if enough people take it.
Of course. Though there is also the technique of ring vaccination for controlling local outbreaks.
The WHO caveats are pretty generic ones. As far as this particular virus is concerned, it is quite likely that a vaccine which provides effective protection for some years will be developed. Though it’s probably true that the first vaccines available (likely the RNA ones) might be only partly effective.
I caught the Oxford Prof on Marr earlier, talking about the vaccine she and her team are working on. Impressed with her. She gave me some confidence. Also explained how they go about testing. They get a large group of people and divide them into 2 equal groups. A gets the vax and B gets placebo. Then they tell those people to go out and live their lives but check in if they get sick. Whereby each one who does get sick gets tested for you know what. The bingo outcome? A good number DO get sick and all of them are in B. If so, full steam ahead with mass production and rollout.
But here's the thing. This is me, now, not her. I think they test this way because it is unethical to deliberately infect large numbers of people with the virus. They must "get it" naturally. And preferably quickly, given time is of the essence. You don't want it taking six months. So the ideal vax testing conditions are when the virus is rife and there is no social distancing. You want these testees going into pubs and gyms and all the rest of it. Conversely, therefore, if by the time the vax is ready for testing we have successfully squashed the virus with lockdown (and still have lockdown), what we have also done is made it harder to test the vax, and thus delayed its ultimate delivery.
kinbalu - vaccine tests are normally in 3 phases. Phase 1 is in a small cohort of young, healthy persons. The aim is to ensure that the vaccine is safe. Phase 2, which the Oxford vaccine is about to enter, is for a far larger cohort across a larger range of demographics. The aim is primarily to ascertain whether the vaccine is effective - i.e. whether it confers adequate immunity to a sufficiently high percentage of recipients (while being acceptably safe). Phase 3 is mostly about fine tuning to dosage of the vaccine to minimize adverse side effects while maintaining efficacy.
PS Moderna in the US and CanSino Biologics in China are both a little ahead of Oxford in the vaccine approval process.
I’m not convinced a placebo controlled RCT is ethical here where the consequences for the placebo group could be so severe.
@Big_G_NorthWales Now...all my (Italian) friends...even my mother in law, are homing in on the UK's approach as being catastrophic....this is now being played out on all Italian news....
This is what has prompted my criticism today...not in fact the Times story...but which in itself says it all....where was Boris as the greatest single issue was fast approaching?
CNN...the New York Times..Washington Post....similarly all pointing the fingers at our incompetence...
BBC World News...the same.....
Why have we managed this so appallingly?
Why were we running Cheltenham, having huge indoor concerts, Champions League Matches in March. (when Europe was closed down)..why were we not closing down our airports...even now....why is our testing capacity so poor, even though we have had labs asking to take part....?? So many mistakes...
Why have we ended up with such an inexperienced group of politicians running our Govt who only seem to have been chosen because they sweared loyalty to Brexit....??
Our economy is service led...and dependant on people feeling confident about spending money.....which this pandemic is lasered on....
The incompetence of this Govt will means that the economic impact will be worse than it should have been...but many thousands of people will have died too....
I'm not playing politics...it is just that political leadership matters to people....
It comes down to whether you accept the science you are told or overrule it
The science may or may not be correct but as long as Boris and HMG follows the science there is little else any other poltician would do, hence why Sturgeon, Drakeford and Foster are applying it to the devolved nations
To be honest I have not heard of her, other than is she in neighbours ?
You see, I have no time for celebrities and have no interest in them other than when Beckham's wife rips off our taxpayers, including our nurses, by furloughing her employees, without any thought
Shame on her
To be fair to Victoria Beckham she did pay the final 20% of her employees wages the government did not pay
VB Fashion has been close to bankrupt for years. It’s only the directors putting money in (DB) that has kept it afloat.
Sadly, plenty of dead businesses will have been propped up by the government furlough scheme.
The Beckhams combined net worth is £350 million.
Beyond employing 30 people, the main purpose of VN Fashion is to give Victoria something to do now some of her kids have left home
And they hit taxpayers for furlough. At least Liverpool and Spurs had the decency to reverse their decision. I am not holding my breath for the Beckham's to do the same
I am sitting watching Britain's most scenic railway on channel 5 with the full journey of the 'Jacobite' express from Fort William to Mallaig and it is just magic
I did it on the diesel train all the way from Glasgow last September. Two days earlier I did the Oban line.
Just Kyle of Lochalsh and the Thurso/Wick line left to do to complete the normal everyday National Rail network.
I’m past disgust and utterly bemused at how the government’s usual apologists seem to think it acceptable for a Prime Minister to take a hands-off approach to a looming pandemic. It begs the question what they think he is there for, if not to take an interest in such serious threats to the nation.
The PM was being told by our experts that it 2as low to medium risk. That's the failure.
If the PM had torn himself away for five minutes from shagging his missus in February to read the newspapers he would have seen ample coverage of Covid-19 for himself. But he simply didn’t care to find out more.
He wasn't been kept up to date with what was happening during February?
Transpires that from Feb 10 he disappeared to Chevening with his mistress for two weeks -perhaps he was exhausted after that fortnight in the Caribbean or wherever it was over Christmas.
The Tories knew they were choosing a chancer who was never going to put in the hard work required. Pity we are all going to pay the price for it.
I do not know anything, but don’t forget she was in her first trimester at the time
And France heisted our bona fide order and demonstrated how shameful Macron is
I cannot imagine what would be said if Boris did the same but I have not read one post of condemnation from remainers on this forum of Macron's actions
I’m a Remainer and I hereby condemn the actions of the French Government in requisitioning of PPE legitimately ordered by the UK. Happy?
Even if it was Hunt is surely favourite to come back as health secretary.
If I were Hunt I would steer clear of Boris' Government. If it does go horribly wrong he could then be in pole position for next leader.
Boris just won an 80 seat majority, he's going nowhere. Additionally if the government asks Hunt then he has to say yes, at the moment he's carping from the sidelines as chair of the health select committee. It would be a terrible look if he said no to becoming part of the solution.
Your first statement is true.
I hope I am wrong, nonetheless I see the economic landscape going forward to look like a post-apocalyptic nightmare for any incumbent government the world over.
Let us say Boris' Government is no exception to the rule and loses power in disarray in 2024 to a rainbow alliance led by Starmer. Just say things don't get any better. Next election Jeremy Hunt is PM.
Or Jeremy Hunt is Romney to Starmer's Obama and Boris' George W Bush
@Big_G_NorthWales Now...all my (Italian) friends...even my mother in law, are homing in on the UK's approach as being catastrophic....this is now being played out on all Italian news....
This is what has prompted my criticism today...not in fact the Times story...but which in itself says it all....where was Boris as the greatest single issue was fast approaching?
CNN...the New York Times..Washington Post....similarly all pointing the fingers at our incompetence...
BBC World News...the same.....
Why have we managed this so appallingly?
Why were we running Cheltenham, having huge indoor concerts, Champions League Matches in March. (when Europe was closed down)..why were we not closing down our airports...even now....why is our testing capacity so poor, even though we have had labs asking to take part....?? So many mistakes...
Why have we ended up with such an inexperienced group of politicians running our Govt who only seem to have been chosen because they sweared loyalty to Brexit....??
Our economy is service led...and dependant on people feeling confident about spending money.....which this pandemic is lasered on....
The incompetence of this Govt will means that the economic impact will be worse than it should have been...but many thousands of people will have died too....
I'm not playing politics...it is just that political leadership matters to people....
It comes down to whether you accept the science you are told or overrule it
The science may or may not be correct but as long as Boris and HMG follows the science there is little else any other poltician would do, hence why Sturgeon, Drakeford and Foster are applying it to the devolved nations
To be honest I have not heard of her, other than is she in neighbours ?
You see, I have no time for celebrities and have no interest in them other than when Beckham's wife rips off our taxpayers, including our nurses, by furloughing her employees, without any thought
Shame on her
She was in Neighbours, yes. Also in that big American show, Friends, that ran for years and years.
As for abuse of the Furlough scheme. No, not great, and I am sure it is rife. Hopefully they factored this into the thinking because it was somewhat inevitable.
You need to excuse my absence of knowledge of any celebrities as I really have no interest in them, indeed I never have
Boris ?
He is a politician
Not his most conspicuous characteristic.
You are very quick to respond when I mention him. Less so when I talk about care homes.
Maybe you did not read my distressing posts earlier today on my son in laws dreadful position with his mother in dementia care, sealed off from her family and celebrating her birthday yesterday on her own with two carers, while her 87 year old husband is in a terrible way falling nearly daily, living with a catheter, and being refused permission to join his wife in her home and refused hospital admission
Also I have years of experiences with various homes, good and bad, with my sister dying in hospital against the express wishes of her dnr as the home did not want her to die there
There is a huge issue with care homes and I am truly sorry at your recent loss
I have to confess that I did not, and thank you for that.
My point was that a large number of care homes outbreaks are the direct result of a completely unjustifiable government policy. Which is still in place.
I am not sure the policy you refer to but my son in law's father is being kept in an unsafe home environment because neither the care sector or hospitals will have him. It is very distressing as all he wants is to be with his dementia wife in their later days
I’m past disgust and utterly bemused at how the government’s usual apologists seem to think it acceptable for a Prime Minister to take a hands-off approach to a looming pandemic. It begs the question what they think he is there for, if not to take an interest in such serious threats to the nation.
The PM was being told by our experts that it 2as low to medium risk. That's the failure.
If the PM had torn himself away for five minutes from shagging his missus in February to read the newspapers he would have seen ample coverage of Covid-19 for himself. But he simply didn’t care to find out more.
He wasn't been kept up to date with what was happening during February?
Transpires that from Feb 10 he disappeared to Chevening with his mistress for two weeks -perhaps he was exhausted after that fortnight in the Caribbean or wherever it was over Christmas.
The Tories knew they were choosing a chancer who was never going to put in the hard work required. Pity we are all going to pay the price for it.
Boris was picked to beat Corbyn and deliver Brexit, both if which he delivered on
Those things having been achieved what is he still in office to achieve then?
I am sitting watching Britain's most scenic railway on channel 5 with the full journey of the 'Jacobite' express from Fort William to Mallaig and it is just magic
I did it on the diesel train all the way from Glasgow last September. Two days earlier I did the Oban line.
Just Kyle of Lochalsh and the Thurso/Wick line left to do to complete the normal everyday National Rail network.
Even if it was Hunt is surely favourite to come back as health secretary.
Yeah, it would have to be a previous health secretary, no question.
Unless Hunt refused.
Interestingly, with Clarke’s retirement Hunt is now the only former health secretary left in the Commons. But then it is eight years since Hunt took over from Lansley.
I’m past disgust and utterly bemused at how the government’s usual apologists seem to think it acceptable for a Prime Minister to take a hands-off approach to a looming pandemic. It begs the question what they think he is there for, if not to take an interest in such serious threats to the nation.
The PM was being told by our experts that it 2as low to medium risk. That's the failure.
If the PM had torn himself away for five minutes from shagging his missus in February to read the newspapers he would have seen ample coverage of Covid-19 for himself. But he simply didn’t care to find out more.
He wasn't been kept up to date with what was happening during February?
Transpires that from Feb 10 he disappeared to Chevening with his mistress for two weeks -perhaps he was exhausted after that fortnight in the Caribbean or wherever it was over Christmas.
The Tories knew they were choosing a chancer who was never going to put in the hard work required. Pity we are all going to pay the price for it.
Boris was picked to beat Corbyn and deliver Brexit, both if which he delivered on
Those things having been achieved what is he still in office to achieve then?
I’m past disgust and utterly bemused at how the government’s usual apologists seem to think it acceptable for a Prime Minister to take a hands-off approach to a looming pandemic. It begs the question what they think he is there for, if not to take an interest in such serious threats to the nation.
The PM was being told by our experts that it 2as low to medium risk. That's the failure.
If the PM had torn himself away for five minutes from shagging his missus in February to read the newspapers he would have seen ample coverage of Covid-19 for himself. But he simply didn’t care to find out more.
He wasn't been kept up to date with what was happening during February?
Transpires that from Feb 10 he disappeared to Chevening with his mistress for two weeks -perhaps he was exhausted after that fortnight in the Caribbean or wherever it was over Christmas.
The Tories knew they were choosing a chancer who was never going to put in the hard work required. Pity we are all going to pay the price for it.
Boris was picked to beat Corbyn and deliver Brexit, both if which he delivered on
Those things having been achieved what is he still in office to achieve then?
Coronavirus proving a trickier opponent than Corbyn.
@Big_G_NorthWales Now...all my (Italian) friends...even my mother in law, are homing in on the UK's approach as being catastrophic....this is now being played out on all Italian news....
This is what has prompted my criticism today...not in fact the Times story...but which in itself says it all....where was Boris as the greatest single issue was fast approaching?
CNN...the New York Times..Washington Post....similarly all pointing the fingers at our incompetence...
BBC World News...the same.....
Why have we managed this so appallingly?
Why were we running Cheltenham, having huge indoor concerts, Champions League Matches in March. (when Europe was closed down)..why were we not closing down our airports...even now....why is our testing capacity so poor, even though we have had labs asking to take part....?? So many mistakes...
Why have we ended up with such an inexperienced group of politicians running our Govt who only seem to have been chosen because they sweared loyalty to Brexit....??
Our economy is service led...and dependant on people feeling confident about spending money.....which this pandemic is lasered on....
The incompetence of this Govt will means that the economic impact will be worse than it should have been...but many thousands of people will have died too....
I'm not playing politics...it is just that political leadership matters to people....
It comes down to whether you accept the science you are told or overrule it
The science may or may not be correct but as long as Boris and HMG follows the science there is little else any other poltician would do, hence why Sturgeon, Drakeford and Foster are applying it to the devolved nations
To be honest I have not heard of her, other than is she in neighbours ?
You see, I have no time for celebrities and have no interest in them other than when Beckham's wife rips off our taxpayers, including our nurses, by furloughing her employees, without any thought
Shame on her
She was in Neighbours, yes. Also in that big American show, Friends, that ran for years and years.
As for abuse of the Furlough scheme. No, not great, and I am sure it is rife. Hopefully they factored this into the thinking because it was somewhat inevitable.
You need to excuse my absence of knowledge of any celebrities as I really have no interest in them, indeed I never have
Boris ?
He is a politician
Not his most conspicuous characteristic.
You are very quick to respond when I mention him. Less so when I talk about care homes.
Maybe you did not read my distressing posts earlier today on my son in laws dreadful position with his mother in dementia care, sealed off from her family and celebrating her birthday yesterday on her own with two carers, while her 87 year old husband is in a terrible way falling nearly daily, living with a catheter, and being refused permission to join his wife in her home and refused hospital admission
Also I have years of experiences with various homes, good and bad, with my sister dying in hospital against the express wishes of her dnr as the home did not want her to die there
There is a huge issue with care homes and I am truly sorry at your recent loss
I have to confess that I did not, and thank you for that.
My point was that a large number of care homes outbreaks are the direct result of a completely unjustifiable government policy. Which is still in place.
I am not sure the policy you refer to but my son in law's father is being kept in an unsafe home environment because neither the care sector or hospitals will have him. It is very distressing as all he wants is to be with his dementia wife in their later days
Matt Hancock, the Health Secretary, said hospital patients who tested positive for Covid-19 would continue to be discharged into care homes despite growing evidence that the policy is fuelling outbreaks and deaths....
I’m past disgust and utterly bemused at how the government’s usual apologists seem to think it acceptable for a Prime Minister to take a hands-off approach to a looming pandemic. It begs the question what they think he is there for, if not to take an interest in such serious threats to the nation.
The PM was being told by our experts that it 2as low to medium risk. That's the failure.
If the PM had torn himself away for five minutes from shagging his missus in February to read the newspapers he would have seen ample coverage of Covid-19 for himself. But he simply didn’t care to find out more.
He wasn't been kept up to date with what was happening during February?
Transpires that from Feb 10 he disappeared to Chevening with his mistress for two weeks -perhaps he was exhausted after that fortnight in the Caribbean or wherever it was over Christmas.
The Tories knew they were choosing a chancer who was never going to put in the hard work required. Pity we are all going to pay the price for it.
Boris was picked to beat Corbyn and deliver Brexit, both if which he delivered on
Those things having been achieved what is he still in office to achieve then?
Gosh, today has been bad tempered here! So many keen to assign blame, when the pandemic has barely started. There will be plenty of time to do the accounting on past mistakes, in the years to come. Personally I'm only interested in whether the present course should be changed. I don't see a lot to criticize there (though some have strong views on mask use, for example) but I may be missing some details.
One thing that I find curious is the apparent policy of discharging patients into care homes. It seems so obviously dangerous, yet they must have thought of this. Do the experts believe that the discharged patients are no longer infectious? If so, I hope they are very sure about this - it would be a bad thing to be mistaken about!
--AS
The social care sector primary purpose now is to take the pressure off hospital beds....old people dying in these homes and infecting others is collateral damage....
The NHS couldn't cope without this.....
It is just a matter of fact....
I can't quite follow this theory, though -- aren't there spare beds in hospitals? Quite a lot if you include the pop-up hospitals. I just don't understand why they would do that in this circumstance.
--AS
I don't know if you are being deliberately naive....
The NHS is completely reliant on the social care sector ensuring that bed's are not blocked...
The worst situation would be an inability for the NHS to take sick people from private homes, and people dying along your street who could be treated and retuned home....
It is to the credit of the Govt that the NHS now has capacity to treat Covid patients on this wave (obviously not those from care homes)...it took a huge effort to prepare the hospitals
Old people dying in care homes is harsh....some of them probably could have survived if they had gone into hospital....but I do think if you ask them, and their families they would agree with this strategy....
Pubs will only be allowed to have 50% of the pre lockdown customers at best... those with large gardens should find a way to make them indoor areas by winter
@Big_G_NorthWales Now...all my (Italian) friends...even my mother in law, are homing in on the UK's approach as being catastrophic....this is now being played out on all Italian news....
This is what has prompted my criticism today...not in fact the Times story...but which in itself says it all....where was Boris as the greatest single issue was fast approaching?
CNN...the New York Times..Washington Post....similarly all pointing the fingers at our incompetence...
BBC World News...the same.....
Why have we managed this so appallingly?
Why were we running Cheltenham, having huge indoor concerts, Champions League Matches in March. (when Europe was closed down)..why were we not closing down our airports...even now....why is our testing capacity so poor, even though we have had labs asking to take part....?? So many mistakes...
Why have we ended up with such an inexperienced group of politicians running our Govt who only seem to have been chosen because they sweared loyalty to Brexit....??
Our economy is service led...and dependant on people feeling confident about spending money.....which this pandemic is lasered on....
The incompetence of this Govt will means that the economic impact will be worse than it should have been...but many thousands of people will have died too....
I'm not playing politics...it is just that political leadership matters to people....
It comes down to whether you accept the science you are told or overrule it
The science may or may not be correct but as long as Boris and HMG follows the science there is little else any other poltician would do, hence why Sturgeon, Drakeford and Foster are applying it to the devolved nations
To be honest I have not heard of her, other than is she in neighbours ?
You see, I have no time for celebrities and have no interest in them other than when Beckham's wife rips off our taxpayers, including our nurses, by furloughing her employees, without any thought
Shame on her
She was in Neighbours, yes. Also in that big American show, Friends, that ran for years and years.
As for abuse of the Furlough scheme. No, not great, and I am sure it is rife. Hopefully they factored this into the thinking because it was somewhat inevitable.
You need to excuse my absence of knowledge of any celebrities as I really have no interest in them, indeed I never have
Boris ?
He is a politician
Not his most conspicuous characteristic.
You are very quick to respond when I mention him. Less so when I talk about care homes.
Maybe you did not read my distressing posts earlier today on my son in laws dreadful position with his mother in dementia care, sealed off from her family and celebrating her birthday yesterday on her own with two carers, while her 87 year old husband is in a terrible way falling nearly daily, living with a catheter, and being refused permission to join his wife in her home and refused hospital admission
Also I have years of experiences with various homes, good and bad, with my sister dying in hospital against the express wishes of her dnr as the home did not want her to die there
There is a huge issue with care homes and I am truly sorry at your recent loss
I have to confess that I did not, and thank you for that.
My point was that a large number of care homes outbreaks are the direct result of a completely unjustifiable government policy. Which is still in place.
I am not sure the policy you refer to but my son in law's father is being kept in an unsafe home environment because neither the care sector or hospitals will have him. It is very distressing as all he wants is to be with his dementia wife in their later days
Matt Hancock, the Health Secretary, said hospital patients who tested positive for Covid-19 would continue to be discharged into care homes despite growing evidence that the policy is fuelling outbreaks and deaths....
Macron is right. A supply side monetary response is urgently required by the EU and the EZ in particular. If it does not happen several EZ countries such as Italy and Spain will have an economic disaster of the sort not seen since Hoover. Its not just a question of whether the EU would survive such a calamity, it is a question of whether it should.
Its back to the fundamental problem of the EU - too much, too fast.
The Germans were told by their leaders that their sacrificing wage increase and being frugal led the the German boom. Which reinforced the notion that Germany was carrying the weight in Europe. In reality, the Euro helped Germany immensely at the expense of other parts of Europe.
In those other parts, the leaders talked of reform. But did not rebuild their economic systems to the German model. Because to even start, would to have been thrown from office, with ignominy. Who now remembers the Professor of economics in Athens, who was pitched out of his job, for suggesting in the boom years that the deficit the government was running was a bad idea? Motorcycle boy said he deserved it (and the death threats) at the time... no apology later.
Either the EU converages to carry out the fiscal transfers required, or they do nothing, or they split.
They will do nothing for as long as possible.
There will need to be fiscal transfers if the Euro is to work long term but that is not the current urgency. What is urgent now is that there is an ECB response similar to that of the BoE and the Fed with a major QE injection to protect the economy from very severe economic damage (some is inevitable). For a single currency bloc that means Coronabonds and the ECB essentially underwriting the bond issues of member states to the extent needed to fund the fiscal response to the crisis. Germany and Holland are blocking this because they can afford a much bigger fiscal response and can borrow pretty much unlimited sums at minimal cost. Spain and Italy can't. Its really shameful.
Coronabonds are a fiscal transfer by another name - putting Germany and the other contributors on the line for the others debts.
Yup. What else did they expect when they all agreed to sign up to a single currency?
The politicians lied to each other and to their electorates.
The Greek politicians said they would become good Germans. The Greek politicians told the electorate that there would be reforms. And then did nothing at the slightest sign of opposition. The Germans told their people that everyone in Europe would become fiscally responsible. And that low wage rises were making Germany competitive and strong. And that big fiscal transfers would not be needed. etc. etc.
Everyone triangulated everyone.
Don't forget to name-check Goldman Sachs (with the Greece debacle).
And don't forget that it's not optimal for neighbouring countries with similar economies who trade a lot together all to have their own silly little currencies.
Using the term “optimal” in this situation implies a specific set of conditions. These were (and are) not met. Hence the Eurozone is not an optimal currency area
That’s a fair cop. I used the wrong word. "Sensible" is better.
I’m past disgust and utterly bemused at how the government’s usual apologists seem to think it acceptable for a Prime Minister to take a hands-off approach to a looming pandemic. It begs the question what they think he is there for, if not to take an interest in such serious threats to the nation.
The PM was being told by our experts that it 2as low to medium risk. That's the failure.
If the PM had torn himself away for five minutes from shagging his missus in February to read the newspapers he would have seen ample coverage of Covid-19 for himself. But he simply didn’t care to find out more.
He wasn't been kept up to date with what was happening during February?
Transpires that from Feb 10 he disappeared to Chevening with his mistress for two weeks -perhaps he was exhausted after that fortnight in the Caribbean or wherever it was over Christmas.
The Tories knew they were choosing a chancer who was never going to put in the hard work required. Pity we are all going to pay the price for it.
Boris was picked to beat Corbyn and deliver Brexit, both if which he delivered on
Those things having been achieved what is he still in office to achieve then?
I’m past disgust and utterly bemused at how the government’s usual apologists seem to think it acceptable for a Prime Minister to take a hands-off approach to a looming pandemic. It begs the question what they think he is there for, if not to take an interest in such serious threats to the nation.
The PM was being told by our experts that it 2as low to medium risk. That's the failure.
If the PM had torn himself away for five minutes from shagging his missus in February to read the newspapers he would have seen ample coverage of Covid-19 for himself. But he simply didn’t care to find out more.
He wasn't been kept up to date with what was happening during February?
Transpires that from Feb 10 he disappeared to Chevening with his mistress for two weeks -perhaps he was exhausted after that fortnight in the Caribbean or wherever it was over Christmas.
The Tories knew they were choosing a chancer who was never going to put in the hard work required. Pity we are all going to pay the price for it.
Boris was picked to beat Corbyn and deliver Brexit, both if which he delivered on
Those things having been achieved what is he still in office to achieve then?
The end of the transition period
So he’ll be gone in January?
No his next task will be to beat Starmer
I hope he intends to be busier than that between now and 2024!
@Big_G_NorthWales Now...all my (Italian) friends...even my mother in law, are homing in on the UK's approach as being catastrophic....this is now being played out on all Italian news....
This is what has prompted my criticism today...not in fact the Times story...but which in itself says it all....where was Boris as the greatest single issue was fast approaching?
CNN...the New York Times..Washington Post....similarly all pointing the fingers at our incompetence...
BBC World News...the same.....
Why have we managed this so appallingly?
Why were we running Cheltenham, having huge indoor concerts, Champions League Matches in March. (when Europe was closed down)..why were we not closing down our airports...even now....why is our testing capacity so poor, even though we have had labs asking to take part....?? So many mistakes...
Why have we ended up with such an inexperienced group of politicians running our Govt who only seem to have been chosen because they sweared loyalty to Brexit....??
Our economy is service led...and dependant on people feeling confident about spending money.....which this pandemic is lasered on....
The incompetence of this Govt will means that the economic impact will be worse than it should have been...but many thousands of people will have died too....
I'm not playing politics...it is just that political leadership matters to people....
It comes down to whether you accept the science you are told or overrule it
The science may or may not be correct but as long as Boris and HMG follows the science there is little else any other poltician would do, hence why Sturgeon, Drakeford and Foster are applying it to the devolved nations
To be honest I have not heard of her, other than is she in neighbours ?
You see, I have no time for celebrities and have no interest in them other than when Beckham's wife rips off our taxpayers, including our nurses, by furloughing her employees, without any thought
Shame on her
To be fair to Victoria Beckham she did pay the final 20% of her employees wages the government did not pay
So very good of her as she rips us off for 80% despite her multi millions
Again, shame on her
I have no knowledge of the specifics here.
But why shouldn’t she be entitled to benefit from the government’s programme in the same way any other small business can?
I am sitting watching Britain's most scenic railway on channel 5 with the full journey of the 'Jacobite' express from Fort William to Mallaig and it is just magic
I did it on the diesel train all the way from Glasgow last September. Two days earlier I did the Oban line.
Just Kyle of Lochalsh and the Thurso/Wick line left to do to complete the normal everyday National Rail network.
Gosh, today has been bad tempered here! So many keen to assign blame, when the pandemic has barely started. There will be plenty of time to do the accounting on past mistakes, in the years to come. Personally I'm only interested in whether the present course should be changed. I don't see a lot to criticize there (though some have strong views on mask use, for example) but I may be missing some details.
One thing that I find curious is the apparent policy of discharging patients into care homes. It seems so obviously dangerous, yet they must have thought of this. Do the experts believe that the discharged patients are no longer infectious? If so, I hope they are very sure about this - it would be a bad thing to be mistaken about!
--AS
The social care sector primary purpose now is to take the pressure off hospital beds....old people dying in these homes and infecting others is collateral damage....
The NHS couldn't cope without this.....
It is just a matter of fact....
I can't quite follow this theory, though -- aren't there spare beds in hospitals? Quite a lot if you include the pop-up hospitals. I just don't understand why they would do that in this circumstance.
--AS
I don't know if you are being deliberately naive....
The NHS is completely reliant on the social care sector ensuring that bed's are not blocked...
The worst situation would be an inability for the NHS to take sick people from private homes, and people dying along your street who could be treated and retuned home....
It is to the credit of the Govt that the NHS now has capacity to treat Covid patients on this wave (obviously not those from care homes)...it took a huge effort to prepare the hospitals
Old people dying in care homes is harsh....some of them probably could have survived if they had gone into hospital....but I do think if you ask them, and their families they would agree with this strategy....
I absolutely agree with your last paragraph.
Indeed many old people both in care homes and out now have a real fear of going into hospital
I’m past disgust and utterly bemused at how the government’s usual apologists seem to think it acceptable for a Prime Minister to take a hands-off approach to a looming pandemic. It begs the question what they think he is there for, if not to take an interest in such serious threats to the nation.
The PM was being told by our experts that it 2as low to medium risk. That's the failure.
If the PM had torn himself away for five minutes from shagging his missus in February to read the newspapers he would have seen ample coverage of Covid-19 for himself. But he simply didn’t care to find out more.
He wasn't been kept up to date with what was happening during February?
Transpires that from Feb 10 he disappeared to Chevening with his mistress for two weeks -perhaps he was exhausted after that fortnight in the Caribbean or wherever it was over Christmas.
The Tories knew they were choosing a chancer who was never going to put in the hard work required. Pity we are all going to pay the price for it.
Boris was picked to beat Corbyn and deliver Brexit, both if which he delivered on
Those things having been achieved what is he still in office to achieve then?
The end of the transition period
So he’ll be gone in January?
Who the fuck knows? You're a couple of playground kids
Could we try until this is over to not see everything through the prism of party politics and debate issues openly at the moment Scoring political points is secondary to solving the crisis.
I’m past disgust and utterly bemused at how the government’s usual apologists seem to think it acceptable for a Prime Minister to take a hands-off approach to a looming pandemic. It begs the question what they think he is there for, if not to take an interest in such serious threats to the nation.
The PM was being told by our experts that it 2as low to medium risk. That's the failure.
If the PM had torn himself away for five minutes from shagging his missus in February to read the newspapers he would have seen ample coverage of Covid-19 for himself. But he simply didn’t care to find out more.
He wasn't been kept up to date with what was happening during February?
Transpires that from Feb 10 he disappeared to Chevening with his mistress for two weeks -perhaps he was exhausted after that fortnight in the Caribbean or wherever it was over Christmas.
The Tories knew they were choosing a chancer who was never going to put in the hard work required. Pity we are all going to pay the price for it.
Boris was picked to beat Corbyn and deliver Brexit, both if which he delivered on
Those things having been achieved what is he still in office to achieve then?
The end of the transition period
So he’ll be gone in January?
Who the fuck knows? You're a couple of playground kids
At 689 posts I would have thought you had sussed out how PB works by now.
@Big_G_NorthWales Now...all my (Italian) friends...even my mother in law, are homing in on the UK's approach as being catastrophic....this is now being played out on all Italian news....
This is what has prompted my criticism today...not in fact the Times story...but which in itself says it all....where was Boris as the greatest single issue was fast approaching?
CNN...the New York Times..Washington Post....similarly all pointing the fingers at our incompetence...
BBC World News...the same.....
Why have we managed this so appallingly?
Why were we running Cheltenham, having huge indoor concerts, Champions League Matches in March. (when Europe was closed down)..why were we not closing down our airports...even now....why is our testing capacity so poor, even though we have had labs asking to take part....?? So many mistakes...
Why have we ended up with such an inexperienced group of politicians running our Govt who only seem to have been chosen because they sweared loyalty to Brexit....??
Our economy is service led...and dependant on people feeling confident about spending money.....which this pandemic is lasered on....
The incompetence of this Govt will means that the economic impact will be worse than it should have been...but many thousands of people will have died too....
I'm not playing politics...it is just that political leadership matters to people....
It comes down to whether you accept the science you are told or overrule it
The science may or may not be correct but as long as Boris and HMG follows the science there is little else any other poltician would do, hence why Sturgeon, Drakeford and Foster are applying it to the devolved nations
To be honest I have not heard of her, other than is she in neighbours ?
You see, I have no time for celebrities and have no interest in them other than when Beckham's wife rips off our taxpayers, including our nurses, by furloughing her employees, without any thought
Shame on her
To be fair to Victoria Beckham she did pay the final 20% of her employees wages the government did not pay
So very good of her as she rips us off for 80% despite her multi millions
Again, shame on her
I have no knowledge of the specifics here.
But why shouldn’t she be entitled to benefit from the government’s programme in the same way any other small business can?
For the same reason Liverpool and Spurs reversed their decision, it is the right thing to do
@Big_G_NorthWales Now...all my (Italian) friends...even my mother in law, are homing in on the UK's approach as being catastrophic....this is now being played out on all Italian news....
This is what has prompted my criticism today...not in fact the Times story...but which in itself says it all....where was Boris as the greatest single issue was fast approaching?
CNN...the New York Times..Washington Post....similarly all pointing the fingers at our incompetence...
BBC World News...the same.....
Why have we managed this so appallingly?
Why were we running Cheltenham, having huge indoor concerts, Champions League Matches in March. (when Europe was closed down)..why were we not closing down our airports...even now....why is our testing capacity so poor, even though we have had labs asking to take part....?? So many mistakes...
Why have we ended up with such an inexperienced group of politicians running our Govt who only seem to have been chosen because they sweared loyalty to Brexit....??
Our economy is service led...and dependant on people feeling confident about spending money.....which this pandemic is lasered on....
The incompetence of this Govt will means that the economic impact will be worse than it should have been...but many thousands of people will have died too....
I'm not playing politics...it is just that political leadership matters to people....
It comes down to whether you accept the science you are told or overrule it
The science may or may not be correct but as long as Boris and HMG follows the science there is little else any other poltician would do, hence why Sturgeon, Drakeford and Foster are applying it to the devolved nations
To be honest I have not heard of her, other than is she in neighbours ?
You see, I have no time for celebrities and have no interest in them other than when Beckham's wife rips off our taxpayers, including our nurses, by furloughing her employees, without any thought
Shame on her
To be fair to Victoria Beckham she did pay the final 20% of her employees wages the government did not pay
VB Fashion has been close to bankrupt for years. It’s only the directors putting money in (DB) that has kept it afloat.
Sadly, plenty of dead businesses will have been propped up by the government furlough scheme.
The Beckhams combined net worth is £350 million.
Beyond employing 30 people, the main purpose of VB Fashion is to give Victoria something to do now some of her kids have left home
I’m past disgust and utterly bemused at how the government’s usual apologists seem to think it acceptable for a Prime Minister to take a hands-off approach to a looming pandemic. It begs the question what they think he is there for, if not to take an interest in such serious threats to the nation.
The PM was being told by our experts that it 2as low to medium risk. That's the failure.
If the PM had torn himself away for five minutes from shagging his missus in February to read the newspapers he would have seen ample coverage of Covid-19 for himself. But he simply didn’t care to find out more.
He wasn't been kept up to date with what was happening during February?
Transpires that from Feb 10 he disappeared to Chevening with his mistress for two weeks -perhaps he was exhausted after that fortnight in the Caribbean or wherever it was over Christmas.
The Tories knew they were choosing a chancer who was never going to put in the hard work required. Pity we are all going to pay the price for it.
Boris was picked to beat Corbyn and deliver Brexit, both if which he delivered on
Those things having been achieved what is he still in office to achieve then?
The end of the transition period
So he’ll be gone in January?
No his next task will be to beat Starmer
I hope he intends to be busier than that between now and 2024!
@Big_G_NorthWales Now...all my (Italian) friends...even my mother in law, are homing in on the UK's approach as being catastrophic....this is now being played out on all Italian news....
This is what has prompted my criticism today...not in fact the Times story...but which in itself says it all....where was Boris as the greatest single issue was fast approaching?
CNN...the New York Times..Washington Post....similarly all pointing the fingers at our incompetence...
BBC World News...the same.....
Why have we managed this so appallingly?
Why were we running Cheltenham, having huge indoor concerts, Champions League Matches in March. (when Europe was closed down)..why were we not closing down our airports...even now....why is our testing capacity so poor, even though we have had labs asking to take part....?? So many mistakes...
Why have we ended up with such an inexperienced group of politicians running our Govt who only seem to have been chosen because they sweared loyalty to Brexit....??
Our economy is service led...and dependant on people feeling confident about spending money.....which this pandemic is lasered on....
The incompetence of this Govt will means that the economic impact will be worse than it should have been...but many thousands of people will have died too....
I'm not playing politics...it is just that political leadership matters to people....
It comes down to whether you accept the science you are told or overrule it
The science may or may not be correct but as long as Boris and HMG follows the science there is little else any other poltician would do, hence why Sturgeon, Drakeford and Foster are applying it to the devolved nations
To be honest I have not heard of her, other than is she in neighbours ?
You see, I have no time for celebrities and have no interest in them other than when Beckham's wife rips off our taxpayers, including our nurses, by furloughing her employees, without any thought
Shame on her
To be fair to Victoria Beckham she did pay the final 20% of her employees wages the government did not pay
So very good of her as she rips us off for 80% despite her multi millions
Again, shame on her
I have no knowledge of the specifics here.
But why shouldn’t she be entitled to benefit from the government’s programme in the same way any other small business can?
She is entitled - she's Victoria Beckham for Christ's sake
I’m past disgust and utterly bemused at how the government’s usual apologists seem to think it acceptable for a Prime Minister to take a hands-off approach to a looming pandemic. It begs the question what they think he is there for, if not to take an interest in such serious threats to the nation.
The PM was being told by our experts that it 2as low to medium risk. That's the failure.
If the PM had torn himself away for five minutes from shagging his missus in February to read the newspapers he would have seen ample coverage of Covid-19 for himself. But he simply didn’t care to find out more.
He wasn't been kept up to date with what was happening during February?
Transpires that from Feb 10 he disappeared to Chevening with his mistress for two weeks -perhaps he was exhausted after that fortnight in the Caribbean or wherever it was over Christmas.
The Tories knew they were choosing a chancer who was never going to put in the hard work required. Pity we are all going to pay the price for it.
Boris was picked to beat Corbyn and deliver Brexit, both if which he delivered on
Those things having been achieved what is he still in office to achieve then?
The end of the transition period
So he’ll be gone in January?
No his next task will be to beat Starmer
I hope he intends to be busier than that between now and 2024!
He is a good delegator
They say the art of management is delegation. Boris is a very good manager.
And France heisted our bona fide order and demonstrated how shameful Macron is
I cannot imagine what would be said if Boris did the same but I have not read one post of condemnation from remainers on this forum of Macron's actions
I’m a Remainer and I hereby condemn the actions of the French Government in requisitioning of PPE legitimately ordered by the UK. Happy?
I think pretty much all governments around the world are doing/have done variations of this.
The manner in which it is done speaks to the style of that countries politics.
It is clear that countries are regarding the material required for this epidemic as strategic. That is a key word - in various treaties on international trade, that is the exception. When it becomes strategic, all the rules go out the window.
@Big_G_NorthWales Now...all my (Italian) friends...even my mother in law, are homing in on the UK's approach as being catastrophic....this is now being played out on all Italian news....
This is what has prompted my criticism today...not in fact the Times story...but which in itself says it all....where was Boris as the greatest single issue was fast approaching?
CNN...the New York Times..Washington Post....similarly all pointing the fingers at our incompetence...
BBC World News...the same.....
Why have we managed this so appallingly?
Why were we running Cheltenham, having huge indoor concerts, Champions League Matches in March. (when Europe was closed down)..why were we not closing down our airports...even now....why is our testing capacity so poor, even though we have had labs asking to take part....?? So many mistakes...
Why have we ended up with such an inexperienced group of politicians running our Govt who only seem to have been chosen because they sweared loyalty to Brexit....??
Our economy is service led...and dependant on people feeling confident about spending money.....which this pandemic is lasered on....
The incompetence of this Govt will means that the economic impact will be worse than it should have been...but many thousands of people will have died too....
I'm not playing politics...it is just that political leadership matters to people....
It comes down to whether you accept the science you are told or overrule it
The science may or may not be correct but as long as Boris and HMG follows the science there is little else any other poltician would do, hence why Sturgeon, Drakeford and Foster are applying it to the devolved nations
To be honest I have not heard of her, other than is she in neighbours ?
You see, I have no time for celebrities and have no interest in them other than when Beckham's wife rips off our taxpayers, including our nurses, by furloughing her employees, without any thought
Shame on her
To be fair to Victoria Beckham she did pay the final 20% of her employees wages the government did not pay
So very good of her as she rips us off for 80% despite her multi millions
Again, shame on her
I have no knowledge of the specifics here.
But why shouldn’t she be entitled to benefit from the government’s programme in the same way any other small business can?
She should be entitled to. However, it is not just a question of entitlement. With the nation in this crisis it should also be a question of conscience, and doing what is right. It is clear that many employers are already doing what is right.
I like you have no knowledge of the specifics in this case. I just hope she has asked herself whether claiming furlough is the right thing to do.
Gosh, today has been bad tempered here! So many keen to assign blame, when the pandemic has barely started. There will be plenty of time to do the accounting on past mistakes, in the years to come. Personally I'm only interested in whether the present course should be changed. I don't see a lot to criticize there (though some have strong views on mask use, for example) but I may be missing some details.
One thing that I find curious is the apparent policy of discharging patients into care homes. It seems so obviously dangerous, yet they must have thought of this. Do the experts believe that the discharged patients are no longer infectious? If so, I hope they are very sure about this - it would be a bad thing to be mistaken about!
--AS
The social care sector primary purpose now is to take the pressure off hospital beds....old people dying in these homes and infecting others is collateral damage....
The NHS couldn't cope without this.....
It is just a matter of fact....
I can't quite follow this theory, though -- aren't there spare beds in hospitals? Quite a lot if you include the pop-up hospitals. I just don't understand why they would do that in this circumstance.
--AS
I don't know if you are being deliberately naive....
The NHS is completely reliant on the social care sector ensuring that bed's are not blocked...
The worst situation would be an inability for the NHS to take sick people from private homes, and people dying along your street who could be treated and retuned home....
It is to the credit of the Govt that the NHS now has capacity to treat Covid patients on this wave (obviously not those from care homes)...it took a huge effort to prepare the hospitals
Old people dying in care homes is harsh....some of them probably could have survived if they had gone into hospital....but I do think if you ask them, and their families they would agree with this strategy....
I absolutely agree with your last paragraph.
Indeed many old people both in care homes and out now have a real fear of going into hospital
Credit where credit is due...the mobilisation of the NHS to deal with the first wave of this crisis is remarkable....
On a personal note...we were faced with the situation two years ago with my father in law in a care home...he got the flu and pneumonia , and we instructed the home to not send him to hospital...he died a couple of weeks later. We didn't want him to go through the distress of going to hospital...and it was the right decision....
Macron is right. A supply side monetary response is urgently required by the EU and the EZ in particular. If it does not happen several EZ countries such as Italy and Spain will have an economic disaster of the sort not seen since Hoover. Its not just a question of whether the EU would survive such a calamity, it is a question of whether it should.
Its back to the fundamental problem of the EU - too much, too fast.
The Germans were told by their leaders that their sacrificing wage increase and being frugal led the the German boom. Which reinforced the notion that Germany was carrying the weight in Europe. In reality, the Euro helped Germany immensely at the expense of other parts of Europe.
In those other parts, the leaders talked of reform. But did not rebuild their economic systems to the German model. Because to even start, would to have been thrown from office, with ignominy. Who now remembers the Professor of economics in Athens, who was pitched out of his job, for suggesting in the boom years that the deficit the government was running was a bad idea? Motorcycle boy said he deserved it (and the death threats) at the time... no apology later.
Either the EU converages to carry out the fiscal transfers required, or they do nothing, or they split.
They will do nothing for as long as possible.
There will need to be fiscal transfers if the Euro is to work long term but that is not the current urgency. What is urgent now is that there is an ECB response similar to that of the BoE and the Fed with a major QE injection to protect the economy from very severe economic damage (some is inevitable). For a single currency bloc that means Coronabonds and the ECB essentially underwriting the bond issues of member states to the extent needed to fund the fiscal response to the crisis. Germany and Holland are blocking this because they can afford a much bigger fiscal response and can borrow pretty much unlimited sums at minimal cost. Spain and Italy can't. Its really shameful.
Coronabonds are a fiscal transfer by another name - putting Germany and the other contributors on the line for the others debts.
Yup. What else did they expect when they all agreed to sign up to a single currency?
The politicians lied to each other and to their electorates.
The Greek politicians said they would become good Germans. The Greek politicians told the electorate that there would be reforms. And then did nothing at the slightest sign of opposition. The Germans told their people that everyone in Europe would become fiscally responsible. And that low wage rises were making Germany competitive and strong. And that big fiscal transfers would not be needed. etc. etc.
Everyone triangulated everyone.
Don't forget to name-check Goldman Sachs (with the Greece debacle).
And don't forget that it's not optimal for neighbouring countries with similar economies who trade a lot together all to have their own silly little currencies.
Using the term “optimal” in this situation implies a specific set of conditions. These were (and are) not met. Hence the Eurozone is not an optimal currency area
That’s a fair cop. I used the wrong word. "Sensible" is better.
It’s not really sensible to force a single currency onto a non-OCA either..
@Big_G_NorthWales Now...all my (Italian) friends...even my mother in law, are homing in on the UK's approach as being catastrophic....this is now being played out on all Italian news....
This is what has prompted my criticism today...not in fact the Times story...but which in itself says it all....where was Boris as the greatest single issue was fast approaching?
CNN...the New York Times..Washington Post....similarly all pointing the fingers at our incompetence...
BBC World News...the same.....
Why have we managed this so appallingly?
Why were we running Cheltenham, having huge indoor concerts, Champions League Matches in March. (when Europe was closed down)..why were we not closing down our airports...even now....why is our testing capacity so poor, even though we have had labs asking to take part....?? So many mistakes...
Why have we ended up with such an inexperienced group of politicians running our Govt who only seem to have been chosen because they sweared loyalty to Brexit....??
Our economy is service led...and dependant on people feeling confident about spending money.....which this pandemic is lasered on....
The incompetence of this Govt will means that the economic impact will be worse than it should have been...but many thousands of people will have died too....
I'm not playing politics...it is just that political leadership matters to people....
It comes down to whether you accept the science you are told or overrule it
The science may or may not be correct but as long as Boris and HMG follows the science there is little else any other poltician would do, hence why Sturgeon, Drakeford and Foster are applying it to the devolved nations
To be honest I have not heard of her, other than is she in neighbours ?
You see, I have no time for celebrities and have no interest in them other than when Beckham's wife rips off our taxpayers, including our nurses, by furloughing her employees, without any thought
Shame on her
To be fair to Victoria Beckham she did pay the final 20% of her employees wages the government did not pay
So very good of her as she rips us off for 80% despite her multi millions
Again, shame on her
I have no knowledge of the specifics here.
But why shouldn’t she be entitled to benefit from the government’s programme in the same way any other small business can?
For the same reason Liverpool and Spurs reversed their decision, it is the right thing to do
You’re sweet sometimes.
Liverpool and Spurs reversed it because of the damage to their brand
@Big_G_NorthWales Now...all my (Italian) friends...even my mother in law, are homing in on the UK's approach as being catastrophic....this is now being played out on all Italian news....
This is what has prompted my criticism today...not in fact the Times story...but which in itself says it all....where was Boris as the greatest single issue was fast approaching?
CNN...the New York Times..Washington Post....similarly all pointing the fingers at our incompetence...
BBC World News...the same.....
Why have we managed this so appallingly?
Why were we running Cheltenham, having huge indoor concerts, Champions League Matches in March. (when Europe was closed down)..why were we not closing down our airports...even now....why is our testing capacity so poor, even though we have had labs asking to take part....?? So many mistakes...
Why have we ended up with such an inexperienced group of politicians running our Govt who only seem to have been chosen because they sweared loyalty to Brexit....??
Our economy is service led...and dependant on people feeling confident about spending money.....which this pandemic is lasered on....
The incompetence of this Govt will means that the economic impact will be worse than it should have been...but many thousands of people will have died too....
I'm not playing politics...it is just that political leadership matters to people....
It comes down to whether you accept the science you are told or overrule it
The science may or may not be correct but as long as Boris and HMG follows the science there is little else any other poltician would do, hence why Sturgeon, Drakeford and Foster are applying it to the devolved nations
To be honest I have not heard of her, other than is she in neighbours ?
You see, I have no time for celebrities and have no interest in them other than when Beckham's wife rips off our taxpayers, including our nurses, by furloughing her employees, without any thought
Shame on her
She was in Neighbours, yes. Also in that big American show, Friends, that ran for years and years.
As for abuse of the Furlough scheme. No, not great, and I am sure it is rife. Hopefully they factored this into the thinking because it was somewhat inevitable.
You need to excuse my absence of knowledge of any celebrities as I really have no interest in them, indeed I never have
Boris ?
He is a politician
Not his most conspicuous characteristic.
You are very quick to respond when I mention him. Less so when I talk about care homes.
Maybe you did not read my distressing posts earlier today on my son in laws dreadful position with his mother in dementia care, sealed off from her family and celebrating her birthday yesterday on her own with two carers, while her 87 year old husband is in a terrible way falling nearly daily, living with a catheter, and being refused permission to join his wife in her home and refused hospital admission
Also I have years of experiences with various homes, good and bad, with my sister dying in hospital against the express wishes of her dnr as the home did not want her to die there
There is a huge issue with care homes and I am truly sorry at your recent loss
I have to confess that I did not, and thank you for that.
My point was that a large number of care homes outbreaks are the direct result of a completely unjustifiable government policy. Which is still in place.
I am not sure the policy you refer to but my son in law's father is being kept in an unsafe home environment because neither the care sector or hospitals will have him. It is very distressing as all he wants is to be with his dementia wife in their later days
Matt Hancock, the Health Secretary, said hospital patients who tested positive for Covid-19 would continue to be discharged into care homes despite growing evidence that the policy is fuelling outbreaks and deaths....
That is barmy and needs stopping
That is what I have been going on about for the last couple of days.
Macron is right. A supply side monetary response is urgently required by the EU and the EZ in particular. If it does not happen several EZ countries such as Italy and Spain will have an economic disaster of the sort not seen since Hoover. Its not just a question of whether the EU would survive such a calamity, it is a question of whether it should.
Its back to the fundamental problem of the EU - too much, too fast.
The Germans were told by their leaders that their sacrificing wage increase and being frugal led the the German boom. Which reinforced the notion that Germany was carrying the weight in Europe. In reality, the Euro helped Germany immensely at the expense of other parts of Europe.
In those other parts, the leaders talked of reform. But did not rebuild their economic systems to the German model. Because to even start, would to have been thrown from office, with ignominy. Who now remembers the Professor of economics in Athens, who was pitched out of his job, for suggesting in the boom years that the deficit the government was running was a bad idea? Motorcycle boy said he deserved it (and the death threats) at the time... no apology later.
Either the EU converages to carry out the fiscal transfers required, or they do nothing, or they split.
They will do nothing for as long as possible.
There will need to be fiscal transfers if the Euro is to work long term but that is not the current urgency. What is urgent now is that there is an ECB response similar to that of the BoE and the Fed with a major QE injection to protect the economy from very severe economic damage (some is inevitable). For a single currency bloc that means Coronabonds and the ECB essentially underwriting the bond issues of member states to the extent needed to fund the fiscal response to the crisis. Germany and Holland are blocking this because they can afford a much bigger fiscal response and can borrow pretty much unlimited sums at minimal cost. Spain and Italy can't. Its really shameful.
Coronabonds are a fiscal transfer by another name - putting Germany and the other contributors on the line for the others debts.
Yup. What else did they expect when they all agreed to sign up to a single currency?
The politicians lied to each other and to their electorates.
The Greek politicians said they would become good Germans. The Greek politicians told the electorate that there would be reforms. And then did nothing at the slightest sign of opposition. The Germans told their people that everyone in Europe would become fiscally responsible. And that low wage rises were making Germany competitive and strong. And that big fiscal transfers would not be needed. etc. etc.
Everyone triangulated everyone.
Don't forget to name-check Goldman Sachs (with the Greece debacle).
And don't forget that it's not optimal for neighbouring countries with similar economies who trade a lot together all to have their own silly little currencies.
Using the term “optimal” in this situation implies a specific set of conditions. These were (and are) not met. Hence the Eurozone is not an optimal currency area
That’s a fair cop. I used the wrong word. "Sensible" is better.
It’s not really sensible to force a single currency onto a non-OCA either..
My post with your edit reads as follows -
It is not "sensible" for neighbouring countries with similar economies who trade a lot with each other to all have their own little currencies.
If that is indeed the case, it rather dents that Swedish epidemiologist’s stance that the true death rate of coronavirus is no more than one in a thousand.
Literally every resident of NYC would need to have been infected and all survivors would now be immune.
If deaths continue, the death rate is obviously above 0.1%
Macron is right. A supply side monetary response is urgently required by the EU and the EZ in particular. If it does not happen several EZ countries such as Italy and Spain will have an economic disaster of the sort not seen since Hoover. Its not just a question of whether the EU would survive such a calamity, it is a question of whether it should.
Its back to the fundamental problem of the EU - too much, too fast.
The Germans were told by their leaders that their sacrificing wage increase and being frugal led the the German boom. Which reinforced the notion that Germany was carrying the weight in Europe. In reality, the Euro helped Germany immensely at the expense of other parts of Europe.
In those other parts, the leaders talked of reform. But did not rebuild their economic systems to the German model. Because to even start, would to have been thrown from office, with ignominy. Who now remembers the Professor of economics in Athens, who was pitched out of his job, for suggesting in the boom years that the deficit the government was running was a bad idea? Motorcycle boy said he deserved it (and the death threats) at the time... no apology later.
Either the EU converages to carry out the fiscal transfers required, or they do nothing, or they split.
They will do nothing for as long as possible.
There will need to be fiscal transfers if the Euro is to work long term but that is not the current urgency. What is urgent now is that there is an ECB response similar to that of the BoE and the Fed with a major QE injection to protect the economy from very severe economic damage (some is inevitable). For a single currency bloc that means Coronabonds and the ECB essentially underwriting the bond issues of member states to the extent needed to fund the fiscal response to the crisis. Germany and Holland are blocking this because they can afford a much bigger fiscal response and can borrow pretty much unlimited sums at minimal cost. Spain and Italy can't. Its really shameful.
Coronabonds are a fiscal transfer by another name - putting Germany and the other contributors on the line for the others debts.
Yup. What else did they expect when they all agreed to sign up to a single currency?
The politicians lied to each other and to their electorates.
The Greek politicians said they would become good Germans. The Greek politicians told the electorate that there would be reforms. And then did nothing at the slightest sign of opposition. The Germans told their people that everyone in Europe would become fiscally responsible. And that low wage rises were making Germany competitive and strong. And that big fiscal transfers would not be needed. etc. etc.
Everyone triangulated everyone.
Don't forget to name-check Goldman Sachs (with the Greece debacle).
And don't forget that it's not optimal for neighbouring countries with similar economies who trade a lot together all to have their own silly little currencies.
Using the term “optimal” in this situation implies a specific set of conditions. These were (and are) not met. Hence the Eurozone is not an optimal currency area
That’s a fair cop. I used the wrong word. "Sensible" is better.
It’s not really sensible to force a single currency onto a non-OCA either..
My post with your edit reads as follows -
It is not "sensible" for neighbouring countries with similar economies who trade a lot with each other to all have their own little currencies.
That works.
I think Charles' point is that they don't have similar economies.
@Big_G_NorthWales Now...all my (Italian) friends...even my mother in law, are homing in on the UK's approach as being catastrophic....this is now being played out on all Italian news....
This is what has prompted my criticism today...not in fact the Times story...but which in itself says it all....where was Boris as the greatest single issue was fast approaching?
CNN...the New York Times..Washington Post....similarly all pointing the fingers at our incompetence...
BBC World News...the same.....
Why have we managed this so appallingly?
Why were we running Cheltenham, having huge indoor concerts, Champions League Matches in March. (when Europe was closed down)..why were we not closing down our airports...even now....why is our testing capacity so poor, even though we have had labs asking to take part....?? So many mistakes...
Why have we ended up with such an inexperienced group of politicians running our Govt who only seem to have been chosen because they sweared loyalty to Brexit....??
Our economy is service led...and dependant on people feeling confident about spending money.....which this pandemic is lasered on....
The incompetence of this Govt will means that the economic impact will be worse than it should have been...but many thousands of people will have died too....
I'm not playing politics...it is just that political leadership matters to people....
It comes down to whether you accept the science you are told or overrule it
The science may or may not be correct but as long as Boris and HMG follows the science there is little else any other poltician would do, hence why Sturgeon, Drakeford and Foster are applying it to the devolved nations
To be honest I have not heard of her, other than is she in neighbours ?
You see, I have no time for celebrities and have no interest in them other than when Beckham's wife rips off our taxpayers, including our nurses, by furloughing her employees, without any thought
Shame on her
To be fair to Victoria Beckham she did pay the final 20% of her employees wages the government did not pay
VB Fashion has been close to bankrupt for years. It’s only the directors putting money in (DB) that has kept it afloat.
Sadly, plenty of dead businesses will have been propped up by the government furlough scheme.
The Beckhams combined net worth is £350 million.
Beyond employing 30 people, the main purpose of VB Fashion is to give Victoria something to do now some of her kids have left home
If that is indeed the case, it rather dents that Swedish epidemiologist’s stance that the true death rate of coronavirus is no more than one in a thousand.
Literally every resident of NYC would need to have been infected and all survivors would now be immune.
If deaths continue, the death rate is obviously above 0.1%
If that is indeed the case, it rather dents that Swedish epidemiologist’s stance that the true death rate of coronavirus is no more than one in a thousand.
Literally every resident of NYC would need to have been infected and all survivors would now be immune.
If deaths continue, the death rate is obviously above 0.1%
The difficulty is, of course, obvious once explained.
I really want to see the MCMC version of this, where the plot shows a hundred sets of model parametrs that fit to the data. The large uncertainty in the right hand side would be much more obvious.
Macron is right. A supply side monetary response is urgently required by the EU and the EZ in particular. If it does not happen several EZ countries such as Italy and Spain will have an economic disaster of the sort not seen since Hoover. Its not just a question of whether the EU would survive such a calamity, it is a question of whether it should.
Its back to the fundamental problem of the EU - too much, too fast.
The Germans were told by their leaders that their sacrificing wage increase and being frugal led the the German boom. Which reinforced the notion that Germany was carrying the weight in Europe. In reality, the Euro helped Germany immensely at the expense of other parts of Europe.
In those other parts, the leaders talked of reform. But did not rebuild their economic systems to the German model. Because to even start, would to have been thrown from office, with ignominy. Who now remembers the Professor of economics in Athens, who was pitched out of his job, for suggesting in the boom years that the deficit the government was running was a bad idea? Motorcycle boy said he deserved it (and the death threats) at the time... no apology later.
Either the EU converages to carry out the fiscal transfers required, or they do nothing, or they split.
They will do nothing for as long as possible.
There will need to be fiscal transfers if the Euro is to work long term but that is not the current urgency. What is urgent now is that there is an ECB response similar to that of the BoE and the Fed with a major QE injection to protect the economy from very severe economic damage (some is inevitable). For a single currency bloc that means Coronabonds and the ECB essentially underwriting the bond issues of member states to the extent needed to fund the fiscal response to the crisis. Germany and Holland are blocking this because they can afford a much bigger fiscal response and can borrow pretty much unlimited sums at minimal cost. Spain and Italy can't. Its really shameful.
Coronabonds are a fiscal transfer by another name - putting Germany and the other contributors on the line for the others debts.
Yup. What else did they expect when they all agreed to sign up to a single currency?
The politicians lied to each other and to their electorates.
The Greek politicians said they would become good Germans. The Greek politicians told the electorate that there would be reforms. And then did nothing at the slightest sign of opposition. The Germans told their people that everyone in Europe would become fiscally responsible. And that low wage rises were making Germany competitive and strong. And that big fiscal transfers would not be needed. etc. etc.
Everyone triangulated everyone.
Don't forget to name-check Goldman Sachs (with the Greece debacle).
And don't forget that it's not optimal for neighbouring countries with similar economies who trade a lot together all to have their own silly little currencies.
Using the term “optimal” in this situation implies a specific set of conditions. These were (and are) not met. Hence the Eurozone is not an optimal currency area
That’s a fair cop. I used the wrong word. "Sensible" is better.
It’s not really sensible to force a single currency onto a non-OCA either..
My post with your edit reads as follows -
It is not "sensible" for neighbouring countries with similar economies who trade a lot with each other to all have their own little currencies.
That works.
I think Charles' point is that they don't have similar economies.
Macron is right. A supply side monetary response is urgently required by the EU and the EZ in particular. If it does not happen several EZ countries such as Italy and Spain will have an economic disaster of the sort not seen since Hoover. Its not just a question of whether the EU would survive such a calamity, it is a question of whether it should.
Its back to the fundamental problem of the EU - too much, too fast.
The Germans were told by their leaders that their sacrificing wage increase and being frugal led the the German boom. Which reinforced the notion that Germany was carrying the weight in Europe. In reality, the Euro helped Germany immensely at the expense of other parts of Europe.
In those other parts, the leaders talked of reform. But did not rebuild their economic systems to the German model. Because to even start, would to have been thrown from office, with ignominy. Who now remembers the Professor of economics in Athens, who was pitched out of his job, for suggesting in the boom years that the deficit the government was running was a bad idea? Motorcycle boy said he deserved it (and the death threats) at the time... no apology later.
Either the EU converages to carry out the fiscal transfers required, or they do nothing, or they split.
They will do nothing for as long as possible.
There will need to be fiscal transfers if the Euro is to work long term but that is not the current urgency. What is urgent now is that there is an ECB response similar to that of the BoE and the Fed with a major QE injection to protect the economy from very severe economic damage (some is inevitable). For a single currency bloc that means Coronabonds and the ECB essentially underwriting the bond issues of member states to the extent needed to fund the fiscal response to the crisis. Germany and Holland are blocking this because they can afford a much bigger fiscal response and can borrow pretty much unlimited sums at minimal cost. Spain and Italy can't. Its really shameful.
Coronabonds are a fiscal transfer by another name - putting Germany and the other contributors on the line for the others debts.
Yup. What else did they expect when they all agreed to sign up to a single currency?
The politicians lied to each other and to their electorates.
The Greek politicians said they would become good Germans. The Greek politicians told the electorate that there would be reforms. And then did nothing at the slightest sign of opposition. The Germans told their people that everyone in Europe would become fiscally responsible. And that low wage rises were making Germany competitive and strong. And that big fiscal transfers would not be needed. etc. etc.
Everyone triangulated everyone.
Don't forget to name-check Goldman Sachs (with the Greece debacle).
And don't forget that it's not optimal for neighbouring countries with similar economies who trade a lot together all to have their own silly little currencies.
Using the term “optimal” in this situation implies a specific set of conditions. These were (and are) not met. Hence the Eurozone is not an optimal currency area
That’s a fair cop. I used the wrong word. "Sensible" is better.
It’s not really sensible to force a single currency onto a non-OCA either..
My post with your edit reads as follows -
It is not "sensible" for neighbouring countries with similar economies who trade a lot with each other to all have their own little currencies.
That works.
I think Charles' point is that they don't have similar economies.
Macron is right. A supply side monetary response is urgently required by the EU and the EZ in particular. If it does not happen several EZ countries such as Italy and Spain will have an economic disaster of the sort not seen since Hoover. Its not just a question of whether the EU would survive such a calamity, it is a question of whether it should.
Its back to the fundamental problem of the EU - too much, too fast.
The Germans were told by their leaders that their sacrificing wage increase and being frugal led the the German boom. Which reinforced the notion that Germany was carrying the weight in Europe. In reality, the Euro helped Germany immensely at the expense of other parts of Europe.
In those other parts, the leaders talked of reform. But did not rebuild their economic systems to the German model. Because to even start, would to have been thrown from office, with ignominy. Who now remembers the Professor of economics in Athens, who was pitched out of his job, for suggesting in the boom years that the deficit the government was running was a bad idea? Motorcycle boy said he deserved it (and the death threats) at the time... no apology later.
Either the EU converages to carry out the fiscal transfers required, or they do nothing, or they split.
They will do nothing for as long as possible.
There will need to be fiscal transfers if the Euro is to work long term but that is not the current urgency. What is urgent now is that there is an ECB response similar to that of the BoE and the Fed with a major QE injection to protect the economy from very severe economic damage (some is inevitable). For a single currency bloc that means Coronabonds and the ECB essentially underwriting the bond issues of member states to the extent needed to fund the fiscal response to the crisis. Germany and Holland are blocking this because they can afford a much bigger fiscal response and can borrow pretty much unlimited sums at minimal cost. Spain and Italy can't. Its really shameful.
Coronabonds are a fiscal transfer by another name - putting Germany and the other contributors on the line for the others debts.
Yup. What else did they expect when they all agreed to sign up to a single currency?
The politicians lied to each other and to their electorates.
The Greek politicians said they would become good Germans. The Greek politicians told the electorate that there would be reforms. And then did nothing at the slightest sign of opposition. The Germans told their people that everyone in Europe would become fiscally responsible. And that low wage rises were making Germany competitive and strong. And that big fiscal transfers would not be needed. etc. etc.
Everyone triangulated everyone.
Don't forget to name-check Goldman Sachs (with the Greece debacle).
And don't forget that it's not optimal for neighbouring countries with similar economies who trade a lot together all to have their own silly little currencies.
Using the term “optimal” in this situation implies a specific set of conditions. These were (and are) not met. Hence the Eurozone is not an optimal currency area
That’s a fair cop. I used the wrong word. "Sensible" is better.
It’s not really sensible to force a single currency onto a non-OCA either..
My post with your edit reads as follows -
It is not "sensible" for neighbouring countries with similar economies who trade a lot with each other to all have their own little currencies.
That works.
It’s wrong though. It’s not sensible to merge currencies unless (a) it is an OCA or (b) you have the political will for sustained fiscal transfers*. The Eurozone has neither.
* Like New York to Arkansas, Paris to the Masif Centrale or England to Scotland for example
Schools reopening discussions do seem to gloss over the key point that the unit of infection is, for all practical purposes, the household rather than the individual. If kids are less likely to die (albeit still have a noticeable chance of being sick as a dog and may or may not carry health effects forwards throughout life), what about the rest of their households? Will we have a scenario where only teachers under 45 in perfect health and fitness (and with everyone in their household under 45 and in perfect health and fitness) teach only schoolchildren with perfect health and fitness (if you have diabetes, or an impaired immune system, or asthma, or you’re rather chunky, you’d better stay home), who are themselves from households with no-one over 45, and no-one with any health issues (like diabetes, asthma, recovery from kidney stones, under treatment for anything, and God forbid any of the 31% of the population who are obese).
Because if that’s not true, the dear little virus vectors will take out loads of households. Just need one household infected in the catchment area, and if the kids don’t keep good social distancing at school (And if you’re going to rely on 100% obedience to social distancing amongst a demographic who believe themselves at minimum risk and with maximum likelihood of either rebelliousness or discipline issues, God help you), it’ll be everywhere in that catchment area within days.
What did you make of the Swedish prof on unherd?
Is that the one who's gambling that the actual death rate is sub-0.1%?
Let's hope he's right. In the words of Sallah in Raiders of the Lost Ark.: "... very dangerous. You go first."
My real thoughts? In essence - it's so hard to see a solution to the problem, because we don't actually know the shape of the problem yet. As Kahnemann and Twersky say - the human mind hates uncertainty, and we're surrounded by it at the moment, and in a huge and encompassing life-or-death situation.
We need more information on R0, on the true IFR and asymptomatic rate, on the prospects of long-term effects (any neurological and respiratory long-running effects), on the alternative ways of reducing Rt, on whether immunity is granted from exposure-and-survival (and how long that immunity might be), on the realistic prospects of vaccination, on what we can and can't sustain in changes to ways of living and ways of working. Without that, the problem space is huge - and the plausible answers to all of those questions are so wide-ranging that the potential scenarios cover huge swathes of possibilities.
At the moment, the lockdown is buying us time to find out more on all of these, and decreasing R0 to non-explosive levels. A total lockdown is unsustainable long-term (although we're not as locked down as Spain or France, for example, and nowhere near as locked down as was Wuhan; Sweden is less locked down than us, although they're still looking bad in comparison with, say, Norway and Finland. But what levels of lockdown will be needed (Like pulsing restrictions off-and-on over time, for example), what alternatives are possible (contact tracing and antibody tests) are also things we need to work out in that time.
And, of course, the risks of premature abandonment of lockdown without a proper working alternative. I mean, I don't like the lockdown level we've got going on for 3 months, but I can accept it. I'd like even less if we held it for two months, relaxed it too soon, and scurried around to lock down harder and longer, say for four or five months on top of that, and that seems rather too possible.
We can't get a realistic solution until we know what the problem actually is, and what remedies may be of use.
It's surreal, because for the vast majority, it's sort of a "cozy catastrophe." We're at home, with home comforts, with our families, TV and internet, most people with food, and so on - yet we're in the middle of a widespread natural disaster.
It is not a "cozy catastrophe" for everyone now. Some people are resorting to food banks. By the autumn droves of companies will have gone out of business, taking many jobs with them. How "cozy" is it going to be in 6-12 months time? Most people are assuming that everything can carry on as normal except that people are no longer doing "non-essential" work. There is going to be an appreciation next year that this work is not in fact all that "non-essential". Expect, for example, large tax increases to balance the government's budget.
@Big_G_NorthWales Now...all my (Italian) friends...even my mother in law, are homing in on the UK's approach as being catastrophic....this is now being played out on all Italian news....
This is what has prompted my criticism today...not in fact the Times story...but which in itself says it all....where was Boris as the greatest single issue was fast approaching?
CNN...the New York Times..Washington Post....similarly all pointing the fingers at our incompetence...
BBC World News...the same.....
Why have we managed this so appallingly?
Why were we running Cheltenham, having huge indoor concerts, Champions League Matches in March. (when Europe was closed down)..why were we not closing down our airports...even now....why is our testing capacity so poor, even though we have had labs asking to take part....?? So many mistakes...
Why have we ended up with such an inexperienced group of politicians running our Govt who only seem to have been chosen because they sweared loyalty to Brexit....??
Our economy is service led...and dependant on people feeling confident about spending money.....which this pandemic is lasered on....
The incompetence of this Govt will means that the economic impact will be worse than it should have been...but many thousands of people will have died too....
I'm not playing politics...it is just that political leadership matters to people....
It comes down to whether you accept the science you are told or overrule it
The science may or may not be correct but as long as Boris and HMG follows the science there is little else any other poltician would do, hence why Sturgeon, Drakeford and Foster are applying it to the devolved nations
To be honest I have not heard of her, other than is she in neighbours ?
You see, I have no time for celebrities and have no interest in them other than when Beckham's wife rips off our taxpayers, including our nurses, by furloughing her employees, without any thought
Shame on her
To be fair to Victoria Beckham she did pay the final 20% of her employees wages the government did not pay
VB Fashion has been close to bankrupt for years. It’s only the directors putting money in (DB) that has kept it afloat.
Sadly, plenty of dead businesses will have been propped up by the government furlough scheme.
The Beckhams combined net worth is £350 million.
Beyond employing 30 people, the main purpose of VB Fashion is to give Victoria something to do now some of her kids have left home
The difficulty is, of course, obvious once explained.
I really want to see the MCMC version of this, where the plot shows a hundred sets of model parametrs that fit to the data. The large uncertainty in the right hand side would be much more obvious.
It all comes down to the second turning point, without knowing what that level is it is basically impossible to predict an accurate curve.
Gosh, today has been bad tempered here! So many keen to assign blame, when the pandemic has barely started. There will be plenty of time to do the accounting on past mistakes, in the years to come. Personally I'm only interested in whether the present course should be changed. I don't see a lot to criticize there (though some have strong views on mask use, for example) but I may be missing some details.
One thing that I find curious is the apparent policy of discharging patients into care homes. It seems so obviously dangerous, yet they must have thought of this. Do the experts believe that the discharged patients are no longer infectious? If so, I hope they are very sure about this - it would be a bad thing to be mistaken about!
--AS
The social care sector primary purpose now is to take the pressure off hospital beds....old people dying in these homes and infecting others is collateral damage....
The NHS couldn't cope without this.....
It is just a matter of fact....
I can't quite follow this theory, though -- aren't there spare beds in hospitals? Quite a lot if you include the pop-up hospitals. I just don't understand why they would do that in this circumstance.
--AS
I don't know if you are being deliberately naive....
The NHS is completely reliant on the social care sector ensuring that bed's are not blocked...
The worst situation would be an inability for the NHS to take sick people from private homes, and people dying along your street who could be treated and retuned home....
It is to the credit of the Govt that the NHS now has capacity to treat Covid patients on this wave (obviously not those from care homes)...it took a huge effort to prepare the hospitals
Old people dying in care homes is harsh....some of them probably could have survived if they had gone into hospital....but I do think if you ask them, and their families they would agree with this strategy....
I absolutely agree with your last paragraph.
Indeed many old people both in care homes and out now have a real fear of going into hospital
Credit where credit is due...the mobilisation of the NHS to deal with the first wave of this crisis is remarkable....
On a personal note...we were faced with the situation two years ago with my father in law in a care home...he got the flu and pneumonia , and we instructed the home to not send him to hospital...he died a couple of weeks later. We didn't want him to go through the distress of going to hospital...and it was the right decision....
You know Tyson my sister wanted to pass in her bed in her nursing home and signed a DNR. The day came when she was dying and the nurse phoned for the doctor to be told the surgery was closed for training, no emergency number was left
The nurse then phoned for an ambulance and when the crew arrived I said she had a dnr and did not want to die in hospital. They said they needed a doctor and we could not get one. The paramedics then asked whether I wanted her to go with them to hospital or to leave her. Now at a time your sister is dying in front of you, and suffering, you are asked to be the one to decide, and as I could not let her continue suffering, I agreed for her to go to hospital
When I arrived in A & E about 20 minutes after the ambulance I was shown to my sister's bedside and the doctor said all treatment was withdrawn and only palliative care adminstered. He said he did not expect her to survive the night
After 5 hours she died and I was then told I would be interviewed by the police because my sister had died in A & E and the police required me to formally identify her body. This I did and after the police interview I went home utterly drained emotionally and physically
Macron is right. A supply side monetary response is urgently required by the EU and the EZ in particular. If it does not happen several EZ countries such as Italy and Spain will have an economic disaster of the sort not seen since Hoover. Its not just a question of whether the EU would survive such a calamity, it is a question of whether it should.
Its back to the fundamental problem of the EU - too much, too fast.
The Germans were told by their leaders that their sacrificing wage increase and being frugal led the the German boom. Which reinforced the notion that Germany was carrying the weight in Europe. In reality, the Euro helped Germany immensely at the expense of other parts of Europe.
In those other parts, the leaders talked of reform. But did not rebuild their economic systems to the German model. Because to even start, would to have been thrown from office, with ignominy. Who now remembers the Professor of economics in Athens, who was pitched out of his job, for suggesting in the boom years that the deficit the government was running was a bad idea? Motorcycle boy said he deserved it (and the death threats) at the time... no apology later.
Either the EU converages to carry out the fiscal transfers required, or they do nothing, or they split.
They will do nothing for as long as possible.
There will need to be fiscal transfers if the Euro is to work long term but that is not the current urgency. What is urgent now is that there is an ECB response similar to that of the BoE and the Fed with a major QE injection to protect the economy from very severe economic damage (some is inevitable). For a single currency bloc that means Coronabonds and the ECB essentially underwriting the bond issues of member states to the extent needed to fund the fiscal response to the crisis. Germany and Holland are blocking this because they can afford a much bigger fiscal response and can borrow pretty much unlimited sums at minimal cost. Spain and Italy can't. Its really shameful.
Coronabonds are a fiscal transfer by another name - putting Germany and the other contributors on the line for the others debts.
Yup. What else did they expect when they all agreed to sign up to a single currency?
The politicians lied to each other and to their electorates.
The Greek politicians said they would become good Germans. The Greek politicians told the electorate that there would be reforms. And then did nothing at the slightest sign of opposition. The Germans told their people that everyone in Europe would become fiscally responsible. And that low wage rises were making Germany competitive and strong. And that big fiscal transfers would not be needed. etc. etc.
Everyone triangulated everyone.
Don't forget to name-check Goldman Sachs (with the Greece debacle).
And don't forget that it's not optimal for neighbouring countries with similar economies who trade a lot together all to have their own silly little currencies.
Using the term “optimal” in this situation implies a specific set of conditions. These were (and are) not met. Hence the Eurozone is not an optimal currency area
That’s a fair cop. I used the wrong word. "Sensible" is better.
It’s not really sensible to force a single currency onto a non-OCA either..
My post with your edit reads as follows -
It is not "sensible" for neighbouring countries with similar economies who trade a lot with each other to all have their own little currencies.
That works.
I think Charles' point is that they don't have similar economies.
Macron is right. A supply side monetary response is urgently required by the EU and the EZ in particular. If it does not happen several EZ countries such as Italy and Spain will have an economic disaster of the sort not seen since Hoover. Its not just a question of whether the EU would survive such a calamity, it is a question of whether it should.
Its back to the fundamental problem of the EU - too much, too fast.
The Germans were told by their leaders that their sacrificing wage increase and being frugal led the the German boom. Which reinforced the notion that Germany was carrying the weight in Europe. In reality, the Euro helped Germany immensely at the expense of other parts of Europe.
In those other parts, the leaders talked of reform. But did not rebuild their economic systems to the German model. Because to even start, would to have been thrown from office, with ignominy. Who now remembers the Professor of economics in Athens, who was pitched out of his job, for suggesting in the boom years that the deficit the government was running was a bad idea? Motorcycle boy said he deserved it (and the death threats) at the time... no apology later.
Either the EU converages to carry out the fiscal transfers required, or they do nothing, or they split.
They will do nothing for as long as possible.
There will need to be fiscal transfers if the Euro is to work long term but that is not the current urgency. What is urgent now is that there is an ECB response similar to that of the BoE and the Fed with a major QE injection to protect the economy from very severe economic damage (some is inevitable). For a single currency bloc that means Coronabonds and the ECB essentially underwriting the bond issues of member states to the extent needed to fund the fiscal response to the crisis. Germany and Holland are blocking this because they can afford a much bigger fiscal response and can borrow pretty much unlimited sums at minimal cost. Spain and Italy can't. Its really shameful.
Coronabonds are a fiscal transfer by another name - putting Germany and the other contributors on the line for the others debts.
Yup. What else did they expect when they all agreed to sign up to a single currency?
The politicians lied to each other and to their electorates.
The Greek politicians said they would become good Germans. The Greek politicians told the electorate that there would be reforms. And then did nothing at the slightest sign of opposition. The Germans told their people that everyone in Europe would become fiscally responsible. And that low wage rises were making Germany competitive and strong. And that big fiscal transfers would not be needed. etc. etc.
Everyone triangulated everyone.
Don't forget to name-check Goldman Sachs (with the Greece debacle).
And don't forget that it's not optimal for neighbouring countries with similar economies who trade a lot together all to have their own silly little currencies.
Using the term “optimal” in this situation implies a specific set of conditions. These were (and are) not met. Hence the Eurozone is not an optimal currency area
That’s a fair cop. I used the wrong word. "Sensible" is better.
It’s not really sensible to force a single currency onto a non-OCA either..
My post with your edit reads as follows -
It is not "sensible" for neighbouring countries with similar economies who trade a lot with each other to all have their own little currencies.
That works.
I think Charles' point is that they don't have similar economies.
Some do. Some don't.
You just need to be similar enough.
And I think his point is they aren't.
Well he's obviously wrong then innit.
If "they" refers to the whole EZ.
What else does the bozo think?
They have capital and labour flows (although labour flows are not that good ex U.K.)
They don’t have a currency risk sharing mechanism.
Basically Spain and Greece get stuffed because Germany isn’t willing to engage is fiscal transfers.
@Big_G_NorthWales Now...all my (Italian) friends...even my mother in law, are homing in on the UK's approach as being catastrophic....this is now being played out on all Italian news....
This is what has prompted my criticism today...not in fact the Times story...but which in itself says it all....where was Boris as the greatest single issue was fast approaching?
CNN...the New York Times..Washington Post....similarly all pointing the fingers at our incompetence...
BBC World News...the same.....
Why have we managed this so appallingly?
Why were we running Cheltenham, having huge indoor concerts, Champions League Matches in March. (when Europe was closed down)..why were we not closing down our airports...even now....why is our testing capacity so poor, even though we have had labs asking to take part....?? So many mistakes...
Why have we ended up with such an inexperienced group of politicians running our Govt who only seem to have been chosen because they sweared loyalty to Brexit....??
Our economy is service led...and dependant on people feeling confident about spending money.....which this pandemic is lasered on....
The incompetence of this Govt will means that the economic impact will be worse than it should have been...but many thousands of people will have died too....
I'm not playing politics...it is just that political leadership matters to people....
It comes down to whether you accept the science you are told or overrule it
The science may or may not be correct but as long as Boris and HMG follows the science there is little else any other poltician would do, hence why Sturgeon, Drakeford and Foster are applying it to the devolved nations
To be honest I have not heard of her, other than is she in neighbours ?
You see, I have no time for celebrities and have no interest in them other than when Beckham's wife rips off our taxpayers, including our nurses, by furloughing her employees, without any thought
Shame on her
To be fair to Victoria Beckham she did pay the final 20% of her employees wages the government did not pay
VB Fashion has been close to bankrupt for years. It’s only the directors putting money in (DB) that has kept it afloat.
Sadly, plenty of dead businesses will have been propped up by the government furlough scheme.
The Beckhams combined net worth is £350 million.
Beyond employing 30 people, the main purpose of VB Fashion is to give Victoria something to do now some of her kids have left home
Comments
Back garden, t-shirt (plus other clothing), first Montecristo for about 8 months, Czech beer, sunshine, small birds (which I'm afraid I can't identify) squabbling very noisily in the shrubbery.
Life, let's not get carried away, can be perfectly acceptable.
One thing that I find curious is the apparent policy of discharging patients into care homes. It seems so obviously dangerous, yet they must have thought of this. Do the experts believe that the discharged patients are no longer infectious? If so, I hope they are very sure about this - it would be a bad thing to be mistaken about!
--AS
https://twitter.com/dwallacewells/status/1251922312770748417
Also I have years of experiences with various homes, good and bad, with my sister dying in hospital against the express wishes of her dnr as the home did not want her to die there
There is a huge issue with care homes and I am truely sorry at your recent loss
Spain, Italy and Greece are solidly in this group.
The problem is that the number of Germany like countries is quite small. France is not super keen on the German Euro fiscal policy, but goes along with it as part of the cost of being part of the duo that runs the EU.
The social care sector primary purpose now is to take the pressure off hospital beds....old people dying in these homes and infecting others is collateral damage....
The NHS couldn't cope without this.....
It is just a matter of fact....
There have been a number of the celebrity driven brands closing down or being sold quietly in recent years...
State vs Federal government.
This is the country where the Obama Administration, not having the votes to repeal some laws, decided not to enforce them.
And then sued states that enforced said federal laws to stop them enforcing the law.
Beyond employing 30 people, the main purpose of VN Fashion is to give Victoria something to do now some of her kids have left home
My point was that a large number of care homes outbreaks are the direct result of a completely unjustifiable government policy. Which is still in place.
--AS
I hope I am wrong, nonetheless I see the economic landscape going forward to look like a post-apocalyptic nightmare for any incumbent government the world over.
Let us say Boris' Government is no exception to the rule and loses power in disarray in 2024 to a rainbow alliance led by Starmer. Just say things don't get any better. Next election Jeremy Hunt is PM.
Just Kyle of Lochalsh and the Thurso/Wick line left to do to complete the normal everyday National Rail network.
Lock her up!
Honestly if you've not watched Tiger King, you should, it was so addictive.
I was shocked two episodes in when a friend told me it wasn't a comedy/mockumentary like Spinal Tap but a genuine real life thing.
https://twitter.com/jamesrbuk/status/1251796389413208065
http://railmaponline.com/UKIEMap.php#
Interestingly, with Clarke’s retirement Hunt is now the only former health secretary left in the Commons. But then it is eight years since Hunt took over from Lansley.
Care homes cannot safely accept hospital patients suffering from coronavirus without risking the lives of residents, ministers were told on Wednesday.
Matt Hancock, the Health Secretary, said hospital patients who tested positive for Covid-19 would continue to be discharged into care homes despite growing evidence that the policy is fuelling outbreaks and deaths....
The NHS is completely reliant on the social care sector ensuring that bed's are not blocked...
The worst situation would be an inability for the NHS to take sick people from private homes, and people dying along your street who could be treated and retuned home....
It is to the credit of the Govt that the NHS now has capacity to treat Covid patients on this wave (obviously not those from care homes)...it took a huge effort to prepare the hospitals
Old people dying in care homes is harsh....some of them probably could have survived if they had gone into hospital....but I do think if you ask them, and their families they would agree with this strategy....
But why shouldn’t she be entitled to benefit from the government’s programme in the same way any other small business can?
Indeed many old people both in care homes and out now have a real fear of going into hospital
I'm hesitant because i can't bear mistreatment of animals and the last few years have put me off freak show tv. Persevere anyway?
The way I'd look at it, this show is probably going to do more good for animals rights than any celebrity campaign.
https://twitter.com/DanielJHannan/status/1251951191266918402?s=20
Dick.
The manner in which it is done speaks to the style of that countries politics.
It is clear that countries are regarding the material required for this epidemic as strategic. That is a key word - in various treaties on international trade, that is the exception. When it becomes strategic, all the rules go out the window.
I like you have no knowledge of the specifics in this case. I just hope she has asked herself whether claiming furlough is the right thing to do.
That gave it sole.
On a personal note...we were faced with the situation two years ago with my father in law in a care home...he got the flu and pneumonia , and we instructed the home to not send him to hospital...he died a couple of weeks later. We didn't want him to go through the distress of going to hospital...and it was the right decision....
I couldn't finish watching Blackfish, even though I knew it was an important, extremely well made documentary.
Liverpool and Spurs reversed it because of the damage to their brand
It is not "sensible" for neighbouring countries with similar economies who trade a lot with each other to all have their own little currencies.
That works.
Literally every resident of NYC would need to have been infected and all survivors would now be immune.
If deaths continue, the death rate is obviously above 0.1%
https://constancecrozier.com/2020/04/16/forecasting-s-curves-is-hard/
The difficulty is, of course, obvious once explained.
You just need to be similar enough.
* Like New York to Arkansas, Paris to the Masif Centrale or England to Scotland for example
The nurse then phoned for an ambulance and when the crew arrived I said she had a dnr and did not want to die in hospital. They said they needed a doctor and we could not get one. The paramedics then asked whether I wanted her to go with them to hospital or to leave her. Now at a time your sister is dying in front of you, and suffering, you are asked to be the one to decide, and as I could not let her continue suffering, I agreed for her to go to hospital
When I arrived in A & E about 20 minutes after the ambulance I was shown to my sister's bedside and the doctor said all treatment was withdrawn and only palliative care adminstered. He said he did not expect her to survive the night
After 5 hours she died and I was then told I would be interviewed by the police because my sister had died in A & E and the police required me to formally identify her body. This I did and after the police interview I went home utterly drained emotionally and physically
If "they" refers to the whole EZ.
What else does the bozo think?
They don’t have a currency risk sharing mechanism.
Basically Spain and Greece get stuffed because Germany isn’t willing to engage is fiscal transfers.
Not running off to California though.