School leaders have called for an end to “irresponsible speculation” over dates for schools in England to reopen, as ministers were forced to reject suggestions that many pupils would be back in classrooms next month.
The Sunday Times claimed that “senior ministers” had backed a plan for schools to partially reopen on three possible dates: immediately after the current lockdown is scheduled to end on 11 May; after the half-term holiday on 1 June; or at the start of the school year in September.
Thank you. I had a momentary panic that my GCSE and A-level classes might be told to take exams without any revision, which would not have been pleasant for them. I say that not forgetting I have been furious at the decision to cancel exams.
To quote CS Forester:
Order, counter-order, disorder.
I believe the 11 May part of the story was specifically denied.
Given the schools were shut, what other options were there to abandoning the exams?
Genuine question.
I can't see an answer that works - getting kit in place to provide online lessons for every child in every state school will take a serious amount of time.
The disruption would massively impact results.
But that’s the point. Schools are not shut. I am back at work tomorrow.
If they could be kept open to babysit the children of key workers, they could have been kept open for exam classes.
At any rate, the option could have been left open until now, rather than being closed off so early.
IIRC, as soon as the decision to close schools had been made, a load of people were reported as wibbling on about what was going to happen to exams. As they happen in June I'm sure any decision could have been postponed, but apparently not
School leaders have called for an end to “irresponsible speculation” over dates for schools in England to reopen, as ministers were forced to reject suggestions that many pupils would be back in classrooms next month.
The Sunday Times claimed that “senior ministers” had backed a plan for schools to partially reopen on three possible dates: immediately after the current lockdown is scheduled to end on 11 May; after the half-term holiday on 1 June; or at the start of the school year in September.
Thank you. I had a momentary panic that my GCSE and A-level classes might be told to take exams without any revision, which would not have been pleasant for them. I say that not forgetting I have been furious at the decision to cancel exams.
To quote CS Forester:
Order, counter-order, disorder.
I believe the 11 May part of the story was specifically denied.
Given the schools were shut, what other options were there to abandoning the exams?
Genuine question.
I can't see an answer that works - getting kit in place to provide online lessons for every child in every state school will take a serious amount of time.
The disruption would massively impact results.
But that’s the point. Schools are not shut. I am back at work tomorrow.
If they could be kept open to babysit the children of key workers, they could have been kept open for exam classes.
At any rate, the option could have been left open until now, rather than being closed off so early.
If kept open for GCSE and A level student, what percentage of the school attending population would be going to school?
Again, a genuine request for knowledge.
Am I correct, that the percentage of children currently in school is a single digit percentage of the normal number?
Well, yes, because the rest of them have been banned from attending.
There was no noticeable impact on attendance among pupils until that happened.
We did have some problems with staffing but they could have been overcome if just 11, 12 and 13 had been in school.
I'm trying to get an understanding of the relative levels - say we have 5% in school at the moment. vs what % if we added in GCSE and A level years?
Boris Johnson missed five consecutive emergency meetings
Can any of the PMs normal defenders give their best shot at defending why?
Big G? RobD?
Johnson joins an important lunar new year dragon eyes ritual on the day of a Cobra meeting is not an acceptable answer.
Thanks in advance
The firestorm against Boris is plainly out of control and I reject the hysteria around the Sunday Times story. The Cobra meetings in February were taken by the health secretary as the advice was not at that stage at the level it rose to in early march when Boris took control.
Of course the attacks are coming from a remain element and are vociferous as they hope to use this crisis to abort brexit and Boris stands in the way. This same group does not comment of on the requestioning of our PPE supplies from a French manufacturing company in 'an everyone for themselves move'
I expect to get a slew of attacks for making a case for Boris and I do accept mistakes have been made, but any future enquiry will have to ascertain if and by how much Boris overlooked or disregarded the scientific advise
Furthermore, Cobra meetings are attended by the first ministers of Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland representing the SNP, Labour and the DUP, and they have acted in lockstep with HMG and there is no criticism coming from them
You asked for a defence and this is a respectful response
Even today the polls idicate HMG retains the support of voters
BigG whether Boris' enemies (Gove?) are being mendacious or otherwise it LOOKS dreadful to the hitherto supportive public.
School leaders have called for an end to “irresponsible speculation” over dates for schools in England to reopen, as ministers were forced to reject suggestions that many pupils would be back in classrooms next month.
The Sunday Times claimed that “senior ministers” had backed a plan for schools to partially reopen on three possible dates: immediately after the current lockdown is scheduled to end on 11 May; after the half-term holiday on 1 June; or at the start of the school year in September.
Thank you. I had a momentary panic that my GCSE and A-level classes might be told to take exams without any revision, which would not have been pleasant for them. I say that not forgetting I have been furious at the decision to cancel exams.
To quote CS Forester:
Order, counter-order, disorder.
I believe the 11 May part of the story was specifically denied.
Given the schools were shut, what other options were there to abandoning the exams?
Genuine question.
I can't see an answer that works - getting kit in place to provide online lessons for every child in every state school will take a serious amount of time.
The disruption would massively impact results.
But that’s the point. Schools are not shut. I am back at work tomorrow.
If they could be kept open to babysit the children of key workers, they could have been kept open for exam classes.
At any rate, the option could have been left open until now, rather than being closed off so early.
IIRC, as soon as the decision to close schools had been made, a load of people were reported as wibbling on about what was going to happen to exams. As they happen in June I'm sure any decision could have been postponed, but apparently not
They announced the cancellation of exams in the same speech!
And all the evidence strongly suggests they had not consulted OFQUAL, the exam boards or the universities in advance.
So nearly 22,000 tests yesterday but Capacity is now approaching 40,000. Time for all those NHS staff treating Covid 19 patients to get their tests whether or not they are symptomatic
More frontline symptomatic is the next expansion.
A small research project by Stanford using antibody testing concluded that California's true COVID exposure is 50-100 x the reported positives from testing. I take that as good news - it means we'll get to herd immunity quicker and that, even if the implication is that the R0 is higher than previously calculated, that the social distancing is working despite that higher R0
Yet we never reach herd immunity if the worries from the WHO yesterday turn out to be accurate.
Missed it. Is that the worry that asymptomatic and paucisymptomatic persons are not developing high antibody titres?
Can you please stop peddling this herd immunity, wishful thinking nonsense.....it's a vaccine, or a gamechanging anti-viral, or massive testing and contact tracing that gets us out of this....
What do you think a vaccine gives - a clue, it's herd immunity.
Only if enough people take it.
OK, let's rephrase it. The aim of a comprehensive vaccination programme is herd immunity.
School leaders have called for an end to “irresponsible speculation” over dates for schools in England to reopen, as ministers were forced to reject suggestions that many pupils would be back in classrooms next month.
The Sunday Times claimed that “senior ministers” had backed a plan for schools to partially reopen on three possible dates: immediately after the current lockdown is scheduled to end on 11 May; after the half-term holiday on 1 June; or at the start of the school year in September.
Thank you. I had a momentary panic that my GCSE and A-level classes might be told to take exams without any revision, which would not have been pleasant for them. I say that not forgetting I have been furious at the decision to cancel exams.
To quote CS Forester:
Order, counter-order, disorder.
I believe the 11 May part of the story was specifically denied.
Given the schools were shut, what other options were there to abandoning the exams?
Genuine question.
I can't see an answer that works - getting kit in place to provide online lessons for every child in every state school will take a serious amount of time.
The disruption would massively impact results.
But that’s the point. Schools are not shut. I am back at work tomorrow.
If they could be kept open to babysit the children of key workers, they could have been kept open for exam classes.
At any rate, the option could have been left open until now, rather than being closed off so early.
If kept open for GCSE and A level student, what percentage of the school attending population would be going to school?
Again, a genuine request for knowledge.
Am I correct, that the percentage of children currently in school is a single digit percentage of the normal number?
Well, yes, because the rest of them have been banned from attending.
There was no noticeable impact on attendance among pupils until that happened.
We did have some problems with staffing but they could have been overcome if just 11, 12 and 13 had been in school.
I'm trying to get an understanding of the relative levels - say we have 5% in school at the moment. vs what % if we added in GCSE and A level years?
Unhelpfully, that depends on the school so I can’t give a clear answer. I would guess that overall those groups amount to around 15% of the total and there may be some overlap. But that is a guess.
So nearly 22,000 tests yesterday but Capacity is now approaching 40,000. Time for all those NHS staff treating Covid 19 patients to get their tests whether or not they are symptomatic
More frontline symptomatic is the next expansion.
A small research project by Stanford using antibody testing concluded that California's true COVID exposure is 50-100 x the reported positives from testing. I take that as good news - it means we'll get to herd immunity quicker and that, even if the implication is that the R0 is higher than previously calculated, that the social distancing is working despite that higher R0
Yet we never reach herd immunity if the worries from the WHO yesterday turn out to be accurate.
Missed it. Is that the worry that asymptomatic and paucisymptomatic persons are not developing high antibody titres?
Can you please stop peddling this herd immunity, wishful thinking nonsense.....it's a vaccine, or a gamechanging anti-viral, or massive testing and contact tracing that gets us out of this....
What do you think a vaccine gives - a clue, it's herd immunity.
Only if enough people take it.
OK, let's rephrase it. The aim of a comprehensive vaccination programme is herd immunity.
Surrey we want a selective grammar vaccine?
Surely we want an Eton&Harrow grade posh super-vaccine?
{checks - bait on hook, hook backed with piano wire, 1000Kg monofilament... all good}
So nearly 22,000 tests yesterday but Capacity is now approaching 40,000. Time for all those NHS staff treating Covid 19 patients to get their tests whether or not they are symptomatic
More frontline symptomatic is the next expansion.
A small research project by Stanford using antibody testing concluded that California's true COVID exposure is 50-100 x the reported positives from testing. I take that as good news - it means we'll get to herd immunity quicker and that, even if the implication is that the R0 is higher than previously calculated, that the social distancing is working despite that higher R0
Yet we never reach herd immunity if the worries from the WHO yesterday turn out to be accurate.
Missed it. Is that the worry that asymptomatic and paucisymptomatic persons are not developing high antibody titres?
Can you please stop peddling this herd immunity, wishful thinking nonsense.....it's a vaccine, or a gamechanging anti-viral, or massive testing and contact tracing that gets us out of this....
What do you think a vaccine gives - a clue, it's herd immunity.
Only if enough people take it.
OK, let's rephrase it. The aim of a comprehensive vaccination programme is herd immunity.
So nearly 22,000 tests yesterday but Capacity is now approaching 40,000. Time for all those NHS staff treating Covid 19 patients to get their tests whether or not they are symptomatic
More frontline symptomatic is the next expansion.
A small research project by Stanford using antibody testing concluded that California's true COVID exposure is 50-100 x the reported positives from testing. I take that as good news - it means we'll get to herd immunity quicker and that, even if the implication is that the R0 is higher than previously calculated, that the social distancing is working despite that higher R0
Yet we never reach herd immunity if the worries from the WHO yesterday turn out to be accurate.
Missed it. Is that the worry that asymptomatic and paucisymptomatic persons are not developing high antibody titres?
Can you please stop peddling this herd immunity, wishful thinking nonsense.....it's a vaccine, or a gamechanging anti-viral, or massive testing and contact tracing that gets us out of this....
What do you think a vaccine gives - a clue, it's herd immunity.
Only if enough people take it.
OK, let's rephrase it. The aim of a comprehensive vaccination programme is herd immunity.
Surrey we want a selective grammar vaccine?
I went to a selective grammar, so I'm alright jack.
So nearly 22,000 tests yesterday but Capacity is now approaching 40,000. Time for all those NHS staff treating Covid 19 patients to get their tests whether or not they are symptomatic
More frontline symptomatic is the next expansion.
A small research project by Stanford using antibody testing concluded that California's true COVID exposure is 50-100 x the reported positives from testing. I take that as good news - it means we'll get to herd immunity quicker and that, even if the implication is that the R0 is higher than previously calculated, that the social distancing is working despite that higher R0
Yet we never reach herd immunity if the worries from the WHO yesterday turn out to be accurate.
Missed it. Is that the worry that asymptomatic and paucisymptomatic persons are not developing high antibody titres?
Can you please stop peddling this herd immunity, wishful thinking nonsense.....it's a vaccine, or a gamechanging anti-viral, or massive testing and contact tracing that gets us out of this....
What do you think a vaccine gives - a clue, it's herd immunity.
Only if enough people take it.
OK, let's rephrase it. The aim of a comprehensive vaccination programme is herd immunity.
Surrey we want a selective grammar vaccine?
I went to a selective grammar, so I'm alright jack.
I’m intrigued. What was the non-selective grammar in your area like?
Williamson surely has to be regarded as the 2nd weakest performer at these press conferences after Patel.
He doesn't sound authoritative and he answers questions much less directly than others. Other ministers at least look as if they are (roughly) answering the question (usually).
OK, he beats Patel on numeracy - he managed to read out the numbers correctly. But other than that he's actually on a similar level to her.
School leaders have called for an end to “irresponsible speculation” over dates for schools in England to reopen, as ministers were forced to reject suggestions that many pupils would be back in classrooms next month.
The Sunday Times claimed that “senior ministers” had backed a plan for schools to partially reopen on three possible dates: immediately after the current lockdown is scheduled to end on 11 May; after the half-term holiday on 1 June; or at the start of the school year in September.
Thank you. I had a momentary panic that my GCSE and A-level classes might be told to take exams without any revision, which would not have been pleasant for them. I say that not forgetting I have been furious at the decision to cancel exams.
To quote CS Forester:
Order, counter-order, disorder.
I believe the 11 May part of the story was specifically denied.
Given the schools were shut, what other options were there to abandoning the exams?
Genuine question.
I can't see an answer that works - getting kit in place to provide online lessons for every child in every state school will take a serious amount of time.
The disruption would massively impact results.
But that’s the point. Schools are not shut. I am back at work tomorrow.
If they could be kept open to babysit the children of key workers, they could have been kept open for exam classes.
At any rate, the option could have been left open until now, rather than being closed off so early.
IIRC, as soon as the decision to close schools had been made, a load of people were reported as wibbling on about what was going to happen to exams. As they happen in June I'm sure any decision could have been postponed, but apparently not
They announced the cancellation of exams in the same speech!
And all the evidence strongly suggests they had not consulted OFQUAL, the exam boards or the universities in advance.
I'm not sure there was an option - we are talking about 4 years of secondary school. Isn't that going to mean 50% of secondary school pupils attending?
OT: BBC2 is currently showing the 1982 Snooker World Final if anyone is missing their sporting fix.
Are they going to build up to that epic final in 1985, when (spoiler alert!), it went down to the last frame between Davis and Taylor at some time after midnight?
So nearly 22,000 tests yesterday but Capacity is now approaching 40,000. Time for all those NHS staff treating Covid 19 patients to get their tests whether or not they are symptomatic
More frontline symptomatic is the next expansion.
A small research project by Stanford using antibody testing concluded that California's true COVID exposure is 50-100 x the reported positives from testing. I take that as good news - it means we'll get to herd immunity quicker and that, even if the implication is that the R0 is higher than previously calculated, that the social distancing is working despite that higher R0
Yet we never reach herd immunity if the worries from the WHO yesterday turn out to be accurate.
Missed it. Is that the worry that asymptomatic and paucisymptomatic persons are not developing high antibody titres?
Can you please stop peddling this herd immunity, wishful thinking nonsense.....it's a vaccine, or a gamechanging anti-viral, or massive testing and contact tracing that gets us out of this....
What do you think a vaccine gives - a clue, it's herd immunity.
Only if enough people take it.
OK, let's rephrase it. The aim of a comprehensive vaccination programme is herd immunity.
Surrey we want a selective grammar vaccine?
I went to a selective grammar, so I'm alright jack.
I’m intrigued. What was the non-selective grammar in your area like?
School leaders have called for an end to “irresponsible speculation” over dates for schools in England to reopen, as ministers were forced to reject suggestions that many pupils would be back in classrooms next month.
The Sunday Times claimed that “senior ministers” had backed a plan for schools to partially reopen on three possible dates: immediately after the current lockdown is scheduled to end on 11 May; after the half-term holiday on 1 June; or at the start of the school year in September.
Thank you. I had a momentary panic that my GCSE and A-level classes might be told to take exams without any revision, which would not have been pleasant for them. I say that not forgetting I have been furious at the decision to cancel exams.
To quote CS Forester:
Order, counter-order, disorder.
I believe the 11 May part of the story was specifically denied.
Given the schools were shut, what other options were there to abandoning the exams?
Genuine question.
I can't see an answer that works - getting kit in place to provide online lessons for every child in every state school will take a serious amount of time.
The disruption would massively impact results.
But that’s the point. Schools are not shut. I am back at work tomorrow.
If they could be kept open to babysit the children of key workers, they could have been kept open for exam classes.
At any rate, the option could have been left open until now, rather than being closed off so early.
IIRC, as soon as the decision to close schools had been made, a load of people were reported as wibbling on about what was going to happen to exams. As they happen in June I'm sure any decision could have been postponed, but apparently not
They announced the cancellation of exams in the same speech!
And all the evidence strongly suggests they had not consulted OFQUAL, the exam boards or the universities in advance.
I'm not sure there was an option - we are talking about 4 years of secondary school. Isn't that going to mean 50% of secondary school pupils attending?
Dominic Raab is doing an excellent job as acting prime minister. Or do I mean an awful one? Or is the reason we've not had three weeks of Raab threads is that no-one here or elsewhere believes Boris has delegated any authority whatsoever?
Skipping meetings is not delegation. Not reading briefs is not delegation. Centralising power at Number 10 and leaving a vacuum when Boris and Cummings are both off is not delegation.
But you know what? It does not even matter. If we beat the pandemic, Boris will be king of the world. If not, bye bye Boris. Simples.
Great point. The boss not being around does not mean they are delegating. In fact the worst combination of all is laziness PLUS control freakery. You're never there and yet at the same time you refuse to transfer authority to those who are. I had a boss like that once. It's the pits as regards both morale and efficiency. Bet that is "Boris" through and through. If it is, god help us.
Williamson surely has to be regarded as the 2nd weakest performer at these press conferences after Patel.
He doesn't sound authoritative and he answers questions much less directly than others. Other ministers at least look as if they are (roughly) answering the question (usually).
OK, he beats Patel on numeracy - he managed to read out the numbers correctly. But other than that he's actually on a similar level to her.
Alok Sharma was pretty bad, more that he was tone deaf to the issues people are facing.
Williamson surely has to be regarded as the 2nd weakest performer at these press conferences after Patel.
He doesn't sound authoritative and he answers questions much less directly than others. Other ministers at least look as if they are (roughly) answering the question (usually).
OK, he beats Patel on numeracy - he managed to read out the numbers correctly. But other than that he's actually on a similar level to her.
School leaders have called for an end to “irresponsible speculation” over dates for schools in England to reopen, as ministers were forced to reject suggestions that many pupils would be back in classrooms next month.
The Sunday Times claimed that “senior ministers” had backed a plan for schools to partially reopen on three possible dates: immediately after the current lockdown is scheduled to end on 11 May; after the half-term holiday on 1 June; or at the start of the school year in September.
Thank you. I had a momentary panic that my GCSE and A-level classes might be told to take exams without any revision, which would not have been pleasant for them. I say that not forgetting I have been furious at the decision to cancel exams.
To quote CS Forester:
Order, counter-order, disorder.
I believe the 11 May part of the story was specifically denied.
Given the schools were shut, what other options were there to abandoning the exams?
Genuine question.
I can't see an answer that works - getting kit in place to provide online lessons for every child in every state school will take a serious amount of time.
The disruption would massively impact results.
But that’s the point. Schools are not shut. I am back at work tomorrow.
If they could be kept open to babysit the children of key workers, they could have been kept open for exam classes.
At any rate, the option could have been left open until now, rather than being closed off so early.
If kept open for GCSE and A level student, what percentage of the school attending population would be going to school?
Again, a genuine request for knowledge.
Am I correct, that the percentage of children currently in school is a single digit percentage of the normal number?
Well, yes, because the rest of them have been banned from attending.
There was no noticeable impact on attendance among pupils until that happened.
We did have some problems with staffing but they could have been overcome if just 11, 12 and 13 had been in school.
I'm trying to get an understanding of the relative levels - say we have 5% in school at the moment. vs what % if we added in GCSE and A level years?
Unhelpfully, that depends on the school so I can’t give a clear answer. I would guess that overall those groups amount to around 15% of the total and there may be some overlap. But that is a guess.
Do you mean just the 16 and 18 year old would stay in school? not the 15 and 17?
So nearly 22,000 tests yesterday but Capacity is now approaching 40,000. Time for all those NHS staff treating Covid 19 patients to get their tests whether or not they are symptomatic
More frontline symptomatic is the next expansion.
A small research project by Stanford using antibody testing concluded that California's true COVID exposure is 50-100 x the reported positives from testing. I take that as good news - it means we'll get to herd immunity quicker and that, even if the implication is that the R0 is higher than previously calculated, that the social distancing is working despite that higher R0
Yet we never reach herd immunity if the worries from the WHO yesterday turn out to be accurate.
Missed it. Is that the worry that asymptomatic and paucisymptomatic persons are not developing high antibody titres?
Can you please stop peddling this herd immunity, wishful thinking nonsense.....it's a vaccine, or a gamechanging anti-viral, or massive testing and contact tracing that gets us out of this....
What do you think a vaccine gives - a clue, it's herd immunity.
Only if enough people take it.
Of course. Though there is also the technique of ring vaccination for controlling local outbreaks.
The WHO caveats are pretty generic ones. As far as this particular virus is concerned, it is quite likely that a vaccine which provides effective protection for some years will be developed. Though it’s probably true that the first vaccines available (likely the RNA ones) might be only partly effective.
And there is a possibility that a vaccine will exacerbate the situation. Check out antibody-dependent enhancement of SARS and other coronaviruses, e.g. this paper
Boris Johnson missed five consecutive emergency meetings
Can any of the PMs normal defenders give their best shot at defending why?
Big G? RobD?
Johnson joins an important lunar new year dragon eyes ritual on the day of a Cobra meeting is not an acceptable answer.
Thanks in advance
The firestorm against Boris is plainly out of control and I reject the hysteria around the Sunday Times story. The Cobra meetings in February were taken by the health secretary as the advice was not at that stage at the level it rose to in early march when Boris took control.
Of course the attacks are coming from a remain element and are vociferous as they hope to use this crisis to abort brexit and Boris stands in the way. This same group does not comment of on the requestioning of our PPE supplies from a French manufacturing company in 'an everyone for themselves move'
I expect to get a slew of attacks for making a case for Boris and I do accept mistakes have been made, but any future enquiry will have to ascertain if and by how much Boris overlooked or disregarded the scientific advise
Furthermore, Cobra meetings are attended by the first ministers of Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland representing the SNP, Labour and the DUP, and they have acted in lockstep with HMG and there is no criticism coming from them
You asked for a defence and this is a respectful response
Even today the polls idicate HMG retains the support of voters
BigG whether Boris' enemies (Gove?) are being mendacious or otherwise it LOOKS dreadful to the hitherto supportive public.
We will see.
If we see the peak passing and some easing over the next few weeks and Boris returns, fit and well, I expect this spat will not have any effect
Page 22 of the Sunday Times points out that the Wuhan death toll increased by exactly 50% (to the nearest whole number) from 2,579 to 3,869 which seems rather suspicious.
Chinese reported figures are suspicious, who'd have thought that?
We (the UK) are not counting countless thousands dying in care homes...so pot calling kettle springs to mind....
Those are included in the ONS figures. Are you really comparing the two?
do they update their slides based on ONS or do they just show the public the hospital numbers. Majority of the great unwashed will never have heard of the ONS so one hopes they are not being economical with the facts.
School leaders have called for an end to “irresponsible speculation” over dates for schools in England to reopen, as ministers were forced to reject suggestions that many pupils would be back in classrooms next month.
The Sunday Times claimed that “senior ministers” had backed a plan for schools to partially reopen on three possible dates: immediately after the current lockdown is scheduled to end on 11 May; after the half-term holiday on 1 June; or at the start of the school year in September.
Thank you. I had a momentary panic that my GCSE and A-level classes might be told to take exams without any revision, which would not have been pleasant for them. I say that not forgetting I have been furious at the decision to cancel exams.
To quote CS Forester:
Order, counter-order, disorder.
I believe the 11 May part of the story was specifically denied.
Given the schools were shut, what other options were there to abandoning the exams?
Genuine question.
I can't see an answer that works - getting kit in place to provide online lessons for every child in every state school will take a serious amount of time.
The disruption would massively impact results.
But that’s the point. Schools are not shut. I am back at work tomorrow.
If they could be kept open to babysit the children of key workers, they could have been kept open for exam classes.
At any rate, the option could have been left open until now, rather than being closed off so early.
If kept open for GCSE and A level student, what percentage of the school attending population would be going to school?
Again, a genuine request for knowledge.
Am I correct, that the percentage of children currently in school is a single digit percentage of the normal number?
Well, yes, because the rest of them have been banned from attending.
There was no noticeable impact on attendance among pupils until that happened.
We did have some problems with staffing but they could have been overcome if just 11, 12 and 13 had been in school.
I'm trying to get an understanding of the relative levels - say we have 5% in school at the moment. vs what % if we added in GCSE and A level years?
Unhelpfully, that depends on the school so I can’t give a clear answer. I would guess that overall those groups amount to around 15% of the total and there may be some overlap. But that is a guess.
Do you mean just the 16 and 18 year old would stay in school? not the 15 and 17?
Yes. By ‘exam classes’ I meant ‘those who [should have] had exams this summer.’
OT: BBC2 is currently showing the 1982 Snooker World Final if anyone is missing their sporting fix.
Are they going to build up to that epic final in 1985, when (spoiler alert!), it went down to the last frame between Davis and Taylor at some time after midnight?
Oh it's the disgraced national security risk doing the presser.
I thought Liam Fox had left the cabinet?
He has, we now have two disgraced national security risks in cabinet.
One's in charge of MI5 and the police, other is in charge of educating our kids.
Plus I think Boris Johnson can easily become the victim of a Russian honeytrap.
Most disturbing is that the original and best disgraced national security risk is increasingly seeming like a colossus in comparison to these two diddies.
School leaders have called for an end to “irresponsible speculation” over dates for schools in England to reopen, as ministers were forced to reject suggestions that many pupils would be back in classrooms next month.
The Sunday Times claimed that “senior ministers” had backed a plan for schools to partially reopen on three possible dates: immediately after the current lockdown is scheduled to end on 11 May; after the half-term holiday on 1 June; or at the start of the school year in September.
Thank you. I had a momentary panic that my GCSE and A-level classes might be told to take exams without any revision, which would not have been pleasant for them. I say that not forgetting I have been furious at the decision to cancel exams.
To quote CS Forester:
Order, counter-order, disorder.
I believe the 11 May part of the story was specifically denied.
Given the schools were shut, what other options were there to abandoning the exams?
Genuine question.
I can't see an answer that works - getting kit in place to provide online lessons for every child in every state school will take a serious amount of time.
The disruption would massively impact results.
But that’s the point. Schools are not shut. I am back at work tomorrow.
If they could be kept open to babysit the children of key workers, they could have been kept open for exam classes.
At any rate, the option could have been left open until now, rather than being closed off so early.
IIRC, as soon as the decision to close schools had been made, a load of people were reported as wibbling on about what was going to happen to exams. As they happen in June I'm sure any decision could have been postponed, but apparently not
And if they'd have said the exams were going ahead or might be going ahead, then there would've been similar levels of panic about the effect that the uncertainty about whether they might or might not happen would've had on students, what would've been done about mass absenteeism amongst those meant to be sitting exams caused by CV infection, illness or family self-isolation, parents keeping pupils away from the exams because of their own terror of the virus, and teachers not wanting to go anywhere near the schools without access to a massive stockpile of scarce PPE.
The firestorm against Boris is plainly out of control and I reject the hysteria around the Sunday Times story. The Cobra meetings in February were taken by the health secretary as the advice was not at that stage at the level it rose to in early march when Boris took control.
Of course the attacks are coming from a remain element and are vociferous as they hope to use this crisis to abort brexit and Boris stands in the way. This same group does not comment of on the requestioning of our PPE supplies from a French manufacturing company in 'an everyone for themselves move'
I expect to get a slew of attacks for making a case for Boris and I do accept mistakes have been made, but any future enquiry will have to ascertain if and by how much Boris overlooked or disregarded the scientific advise
Furthermore, Cobra meetings are attended by the first ministers of Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland representing the SNP, Labour and the DUP, and they have acted in lockstep with HMG and there is no criticism coming from them
You asked for a defence and this is a respectful response
Even today the polls idicate HMG retains the support of voters
The first problem is most people assume (I certainly did) COBRA meetings were rare and that necessitated the presence of the Prime Minister or someone very senior. If Boris was unable to attend, I would have expected Raab, Sunak or Patel to have led the meeting.
As I said this morning, there are two forms of mistake at work here:- if the Government took scientific advice and that advice turned out to be incorrect, that's unfortunate and while the experts can be held responsible, the Government cannot.
OTOH, if the Government took advice and chose to ignore it, then I think we have a right to know who took that decision and why.
As for the notion this is all a Remain plot to abort Brexit - I've read and written some nonsense on here over the years but that's right up there.The rest of us have moved on.
Page 22 of the Sunday Times points out that the Wuhan death toll increased by exactly 50% (to the nearest whole number) from 2,579 to 3,869 which seems rather suspicious.
Chinese reported figures are suspicious, who'd have thought that?
We (the UK) are not counting countless thousands dying in care homes...so pot calling kettle springs to mind....
Those are included in the ONS figures. Are you really comparing the two?
do they update their slides based on ONS or do they just show the public the hospital numbers. Majority of the great unwashed will never have heard of the ONS so one hopes they are not being economical with the facts.
The slide is presenting hospital deaths, and I don't think they have ever claimed otherwise. Laughably, some journalists had no idea that the ONS was responsible for publishing mortality data. They've been doing it for decades now.
Oh it's the disgraced national security risk doing the presser.
I thought Liam Fox had left the cabinet?
He has, we now have two disgraced national security risks in cabinet.
One's in charge of MI5 and the police, other is in charge of educating our kids.
Plus I think Boris Johnson can easily become the victim of a Russian honeytrap.
Most disturbing is that the original and best disgraced national security risk is increasingly seeming like a colossus in comparison to these two diddies.
Fox is one of the few Brexiteers driven sane by Brexit.
I think if he could back in time he'd back Remain now.
However hard they try to spin and dismiss it the Boris fan boys know the missing COBRA meetings thing is damaging.
They know it's damaging because it plays on the theme that the PM is lazy and can't be bothered with the detailed hard work.
If May had missed 5 COBRA meetings in a month the general reaction would have been that there must have been a good reason. Johnson misses 5 and everything thinks "lazy bastard"
It is damaging because it has now been reported that Blair and Brown not only attended all theirs but chaired them
Johnson is not a politician with any gravitas. He thought being PM would be a bit of jolly jape, I doubt he was ever that committed to Brexit other than as the best vehicle for his own advancement.
School leaders have called for an end to “irresponsible speculation” over dates for schools in England to reopen, as ministers were forced to reject suggestions that many pupils would be back in classrooms next month.
The Sunday Times claimed that “senior ministers” had backed a plan for schools to partially reopen on three possible dates: immediately after the current lockdown is scheduled to end on 11 May; after the half-term holiday on 1 June; or at the start of the school year in September.
Thank you. I had a momentary panic that my GCSE and A-level classes might be told to take exams without any revision, which would not have been pleasant for them. I say that not forgetting I have been furious at the decision to cancel exams.
To quote CS Forester:
Order, counter-order, disorder.
I believe the 11 May part of the story was specifically denied.
Given the schools were shut, what other options were there to abandoning the exams?
Genuine question.
I can't see an answer that works - getting kit in place to provide online lessons for every child in every state school will take a serious amount of time.
The disruption would massively impact results.
But that’s the point. Schools are not shut. I am back at work tomorrow.
If they could be kept open to babysit the children of key workers, they could have been kept open for exam classes.
At any rate, the option could have been left open until now, rather than being closed off so early.
IIRC, as soon as the decision to close schools had been made, a load of people were reported as wibbling on about what was going to happen to exams. As they happen in June I'm sure any decision could have been postponed, but apparently not
They announced the cancellation of exams in the same speech!
And all the evidence strongly suggests they had not consulted OFQUAL, the exam boards or the universities in advance.
In which case I remember it incorrectly. Unless the closure was trailled the day before the official announcement
Page 22 of the Sunday Times points out that the Wuhan death toll increased by exactly 50% (to the nearest whole number) from 2,579 to 3,869 which seems rather suspicious.
Chinese reported figures are suspicious, who'd have thought that?
We (the UK) are not counting countless thousands dying in care homes...so pot calling kettle springs to mind....
Those are included in the ONS figures. Are you really comparing the two?
do they update their slides based on ONS or do they just show the public the hospital numbers. Majority of the great unwashed will never have heard of the ONS so one hopes they are not being economical with the facts.
Not like you Malc, to give 'people like that' the benefit of the doubt. You feeling well?
Williamson surely has to be regarded as the 2nd weakest performer at these press conferences after Patel.
He doesn't sound authoritative and he answers questions much less directly than others. Other ministers at least look as if they are (roughly) answering the question (usually).
OK, he beats Patel on numeracy - he managed to read out the numbers correctly. But other than that he's actually on a similar level to her.
I would agree.
He just said the PPE from Turkey will be here tomorrow. Has that been confirmed
Boris Johnson missed five consecutive emergency meetings
Can any of the PMs normal defenders give their best shot at defending why?
Big G? RobD?
Johnson joins an important lunar new year dragon eyes ritual on the day of a Cobra meeting is not an acceptable answer.
Thanks in advance
The firestorm against Boris is plainly out of control and I reject the hysteria around the Sunday Times story. The Cobra meetings in February were taken by the health secretary as the advice was not at that stage at the level it rose to in early march when Boris took control.
Of course the attacks are coming from a remain element and are vociferous as they hope to use this crisis to abort brexit and Boris stands in the way. This same group does not comment of on the requestioning of our PPE supplies from a French manufacturing company in 'an everyone for themselves move'
I expect to get a slew of attacks for making a case for Boris and I do accept mistakes have been made, but any future enquiry will have to ascertain if and by how much Boris overlooked or disregarded the scientific advise
Furthermore, Cobra meetings are attended by the first ministers of Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland representing the SNP, Labour and the DUP, and they have acted in lockstep with HMG and there is no criticism coming from them
You asked for a defence and this is a respectful response
Even today the polls idicate HMG retains the support of voters
Early days. This has a long way to play yet...
Boris Johnson and the Government ARE culpable of handling this crisis exceptionally poorly. The PPE debacle and the lack of testing are examples of this. And the sh*t hasn't really hit the fan yet!
As I said earlier, this is a time we desperately need great leadership. Instead we have the disingenuous buffoon heading a hapless Government.
School leaders have called for an end to “irresponsible speculation” over dates for schools in England to reopen, as ministers were forced to reject suggestions that many pupils would be back in classrooms next month.
The Sunday Times claimed that “senior ministers” had backed a plan for schools to partially reopen on three possible dates: immediately after the current lockdown is scheduled to end on 11 May; after the half-term holiday on 1 June; or at the start of the school year in September.
Thank you. I had a momentary panic that my GCSE and A-level classes might be told to take exams without any revision, which would not have been pleasant for them. I say that not forgetting I have been furious at the decision to cancel exams.
To quote CS Forester:
Order, counter-order, disorder.
I believe the 11 May part of the story was specifically denied.
Given the schools were shut, what other options were there to abandoning the exams?
Genuine question.
I can't see an answer that works - getting kit in place to provide online lessons for every child in every state school will take a serious amount of time.
The disruption would massively impact results.
But that’s the point. Schools are not shut. I am back at work tomorrow.
If they could be kept open to babysit the children of key workers, they could have been kept open for exam classes.
At any rate, the option could have been left open until now, rather than being closed off so early.
IIRC, as soon as the decision to close schools had been made, a load of people were reported as wibbling on about what was going to happen to exams. As they happen in June I'm sure any decision could have been postponed, but apparently not
They announced the cancellation of exams in the same speech!
And all the evidence strongly suggests they had not consulted OFQUAL, the exam boards or the universities in advance.
In which case I remember it incorrectly. Unless the closure was trailled the day before the official announcement
I think it was Ireland announced the closure of schools the day before and everyone agreed we would swiftly follow.
Boris Johnson missed five consecutive emergency meetings
Can any of the PMs normal defenders give their best shot at defending why?
Big G? RobD?
Johnson joins an important lunar new year dragon eyes ritual on the day of a Cobra meeting is not an acceptable answer.
Thanks in advance
The firestorm against Boris is plainly out of control and I reject the hysteria around the Sunday Times story. The Cobra meetings in February were taken by the health secretary as the advice was not at that stage at the level it rose to in early march when Boris took control.
Of course the attacks are coming from a remain element and are vociferous as they hope to use this crisis to abort brexit and Boris stands in the way. This same group does not comment of on the requestioning of our PPE supplies from a French manufacturing company in 'an everyone for themselves move'
I expect to get a slew of attacks for making a case for Boris and I do accept mistakes have been made, but any future enquiry will have to ascertain if and by how much Boris overlooked or disregarded the scientific advise
Furthermore, Cobra meetings are attended by the first ministers of Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland representing the SNP, Labour and the DUP, and they have acted in lockstep with HMG and there is no criticism coming from them
You asked for a defence and this is a respectful response
Even today the polls idicate HMG retains the support of voters
Early days. This has a long way to play yet...
Boris Johnson and the Government ARE culpable of handling this crisis exceptionally poorly. The PPE debacle and the lack of testing are examples of this. And the sh*t hasn't really hit the fan yet!
As I said earlier, this is a time we desperately need great leadership. Instead we have a lying disingenuous buffoon heading a hapless Government.
Williamson surely has to be regarded as the 2nd weakest performer at these press conferences after Patel.
He doesn't sound authoritative and he answers questions much less directly than others. Other ministers at least look as if they are (roughly) answering the question (usually).
OK, he beats Patel on numeracy - he managed to read out the numbers correctly. But other than that he's actually on a similar level to her.
I would agree.
He just said the PPE from Turkey will be here tomorrow. Has that been confirmed
Page 22 of the Sunday Times points out that the Wuhan death toll increased by exactly 50% (to the nearest whole number) from 2,579 to 3,869 which seems rather suspicious.
Chinese reported figures are suspicious, who'd have thought that?
We (the UK) are not counting countless thousands dying in care homes...so pot calling kettle springs to mind....
Those are included in the ONS figures. Are you really comparing the two?
do they update their slides based on ONS
Yes.
They show two lines, one the "hospital only" deaths which is the most up to date and a second "all deaths" line which lags because the data lags.
School leaders have called for an end to “irresponsible speculation” over dates for schools in England to reopen, as ministers were forced to reject suggestions that many pupils would be back in classrooms next month.
The Sunday Times claimed that “senior ministers” had backed a plan for schools to partially reopen on three possible dates: immediately after the current lockdown is scheduled to end on 11 May; after the half-term holiday on 1 June; or at the start of the school year in September.
Thank you. I had a momentary panic that my GCSE and A-level classes might be told to take exams without any revision, which would not have been pleasant for them. I say that not forgetting I have been furious at the decision to cancel exams.
To quote CS Forester:
Order, counter-order, disorder.
I believe the 11 May part of the story was specifically denied.
Given the schools were shut, what other options were there to abandoning the exams?
Genuine question.
I can't see an answer that works - getting kit in place to provide online lessons for every child in every state school will take a serious amount of time.
The disruption would massively impact results.
But that’s the point. Schools are not shut. I am back at work tomorrow.
If they could be kept open to babysit the children of key workers, they could have been kept open for exam classes.
At any rate, the option could have been left open until now, rather than being closed off so early.
IIRC, as soon as the decision to close schools had been made, a load of people were reported as wibbling on about what was going to happen to exams. As they happen in June I'm sure any decision could have been postponed, but apparently not
And if they'd have said the exams were going ahead or might be going ahead, then there would've been similar levels of panic about the effect that the uncertainty about whether they might or might not happen would've had on students, what would've been done about mass absenteeism amongst those meant to be sitting exams caused by CV infection, illness or family self-isolation, parents keeping pupils away from the exams because of their own terror of the virus, and teachers not wanting to go anywhere near the schools without access to a massive stockpile of scarce PPE.
The initial response could have been "continue to study for your exams, we will make a more considered decision in a week or so".
Page 22 of the Sunday Times points out that the Wuhan death toll increased by exactly 50% (to the nearest whole number) from 2,579 to 3,869 which seems rather suspicious.
Chinese reported figures are suspicious, who'd have thought that?
"Suspicious" is a gross understatement.
Our fatality figures are very suspicious too....thousands dying in care homes....
We are publishing them. You have selective receptors.
The attempts to smear Boris are really very nasty . I dont like Boris but a smear is a smear.
More like TORY SYCOPHANTS DEFENDING THE INDEFENSIBLE ARE VERY VERY VERY NASTY.
Page 22 of the Sunday Times points out that the Wuhan death toll increased by exactly 50% (to the nearest whole number) from 2,579 to 3,869 which seems rather suspicious.
Chinese reported figures are suspicious, who'd have thought that?
We (the UK) are not counting countless thousands dying in care homes...so pot calling kettle springs to mind....
Those are included in the ONS figures. Are you really comparing the two?
do they update their slides based on ONS or do they just show the public the hospital numbers. Majority of the great unwashed will never have heard of the ONS so one hopes they are not being economical with the facts.
The cumulative body count slide now shows two lines for the UK - the up-to-date number (hospital only) and the total mortality (all settings) which lags something like 10 days or two weeks behind, because of delays in collating the information which have previously been discussed here and elsewhere.
I am assuming that the all settings line incorporates all deaths in which Covid-19 was mentioned as a cause, as collated by ONS, NRS and NISRA.
Boris Johnson missed five consecutive emergency meetings
Can any of the PMs normal defenders give their best shot at defending why?
Big G? RobD?
Johnson joins an important lunar new year dragon eyes ritual on the day of a Cobra meeting is not an acceptable answer.
Thanks in advance
The firestorm against Boris is plainly out of control and I reject the hysteria around the Sunday Times story. The Cobra meetings in February were taken by the health secretary as the advice was not at that stage at the level it rose to in early march when Boris took control.
Of course the attacks are coming from a remain element and are vociferous as they hope to use this crisis to abort brexit and Boris stands in the way. This same group does not comment of on the requestioning of our PPE supplies from a French manufacturing company in 'an everyone for themselves move'
I expect to get a slew of attacks for making a case for Boris and I do accept mistakes have been made, but any future enquiry will have to ascertain if and by how much Boris overlooked or disregarded the scientific advise
Furthermore, Cobra meetings are attended by the first ministers of Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland representing the SNP, Labour and the DUP, and they have acted in lockstep with HMG and there is no criticism coming from them
You asked for a defence and this is a respectful response
Even today the polls idicate HMG retains the support of voters
Early days. This has a long way to play yet...
Boris Johnson and the Government ARE culpable of handling this crisis exceptionally poorly. The PPE debacle and the lack of testing are examples of this. And the sh*t hasn't really hit the fan yet!
As I said earlier, this is a time we desperately need great leadership. Instead we have the disingenuous buffoon heading a hapless Government.
I doubt there is a politician in this country that could have done better unless they ignored the advice and accept far worse criticism when errors came to light
To undermine Boris you have to undermine the science recommended to him
Schools reopening discussions do seem to gloss over the key point that the unit of infection is, for all practical purposes, the household rather than the individual. If kids are less likely to die (albeit still have a noticeable chance of being sick as a dog and may or may not carry health effects forwards throughout life), what about the rest of their households? Will we have a scenario where only teachers under 45 in perfect health and fitness (and with everyone in their household under 45 and in perfect health and fitness) teach only schoolchildren with perfect health and fitness (if you have diabetes, or an impaired immune system, or asthma, or you’re rather chunky, you’d better stay home), who are themselves from households with no-one over 45, and no-one with any health issues (like diabetes, asthma, recovery from kidney stones, under treatment for anything, and God forbid any of the 31% of the population who are obese).
Because if that’s not true, the dear little virus vectors will take out loads of households. Just need one household infected in the catchment area, and if the kids don’t keep good social distancing at school (And if you’re going to rely on 100% obedience to social distancing amongst a demographic who believe themselves at minimum risk and with maximum likelihood of either rebelliousness or discipline issues, God help you), it’ll be everywhere in that catchment area within days.
Do you think Hodges tweets are so incoherent because of poor bandwidth, or has he actually lost his mind?
Reminder that earlier on in this crisis he claimed that the idea that we're two weeks behind Italy was discredited because people had been saying that for days.
"My lawyer friends (and I) like to think ourselves educated; we’re well-travelled, worldly people. Most of us went to Oxford, Cambridge, or Edinburgh. This isn’t to boast, because it’s acutely embarrassing to those who consider themselves rational, above the fray, or members of some sort of Oxbridge and Ancient Scottish meritocracy when Chris Lockwood, Europe Editor of The Economist and former No 10 policy wonk comes out with “this is not someone who was at death’s door a few days ago,” then moves onto “something incredibly fishy about the whole business”. FT columnist Frances Coppola, who got wonderfully Biblical, followed Lockwood off the next cliff over shortly thereafter. “Oh what a surprise, he discharged himself on Easter Sunday,” she intoned. “I have no doubt he was seriously ill, but stage-managing this to make it look like he is Jesus is ridiculous”."
It was bigged up for sure or he would not just have spent a few days in hospital and then came out and sounded perfect on a video of his rise from the grave. Now in hiding.
Jenny Harries at least is telling it like it is. Hugh Pym was asked to try and talk like an adult, but I suspect that's not possible for any of them. Treat them like the excitable seven-year-olds they are. As for the question on laptops for kids, Williamson covered that in boring detail in his introduction. Had the questioner been asleep? Come on, we don't expect them to be intelligent but at least, stay awake.
Boris Johnson missed five consecutive emergency meetings
Can any of the PMs normal defenders give their best shot at defending why?
Big G? RobD?
Johnson joins an important lunar new year dragon eyes ritual on the day of a Cobra meeting is not an acceptable answer.
Thanks in advance
The firestorm against Boris is plainly out of control and I reject the hysteria around the Sunday Times story. The Cobra meetings in February were taken by the health secretary as the advice was not at that stage at the level it rose to in early march when Boris took control.
Of course the attacks are coming from a remain element and are vociferous as they hope to use this crisis to abort brexit and Boris stands in the way. This same group does not comment of on the requestioning of our PPE supplies from a French manufacturing company in 'an everyone for themselves move'
I expect to get a slew of attacks for making a case for Boris and I do accept mistakes have been made, but any future enquiry will have to ascertain if and by how much Boris overlooked or disregarded the scientific advise
Furthermore, Cobra meetings are attended by the first ministers of Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland representing the SNP, Labour and the DUP, and they have acted in lockstep with HMG and there is no criticism coming from them
You asked for a defence and this is a respectful response
Even today the polls idicate HMG retains the support of voters
Early days. This has a long way to play yet...
Boris Johnson and the Government ARE culpable of handling this crisis exceptionally poorly. The PPE debacle and the lack of testing are examples of this. And the sh*t hasn't really hit the fan yet!
As I said earlier, this is a time we desperately need great leadership. Instead we have the disingenuous buffoon heading a hapless Government.
Boris Johnson missed five consecutive emergency meetings
Can any of the PMs normal defenders give their best shot at defending why?
Big G? RobD?
Johnson joins an important lunar new year dragon eyes ritual on the day of a Cobra meeting is not an acceptable answer.
Thanks in advance
The firestorm against Boris is plainly out of control and I reject the hysteria around the Sunday Times story. The Cobra meetings in February were taken by the health secretary as the advice was not at that stage at the level it rose to in early march when Boris took control.
Of course the attacks are coming from a remain element and are vociferous as they hope to use this crisis to abort brexit and Boris stands in the way. This same group does not comment of on the requestioning of our PPE supplies from a French manufacturing company in 'an everyone for themselves move'
I expect to get a slew of attacks for making a case for Boris and I do accept mistakes have been made, but any future enquiry will have to ascertain if and by how much Boris overlooked or disregarded the scientific advise
Furthermore, Cobra meetings are attended by the first ministers of Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland representing the SNP, Labour and the DUP, and they have acted in lockstep with HMG and there is no criticism coming from them
You asked for a defence and this is a respectful response
Even today the polls idicate HMG retains the support of voters
BigG whether Boris' enemies (Gove?) are being mendacious or otherwise it LOOKS dreadful to the hitherto supportive public.
We will see.
If we see the peak passing and some easing over the next few weeks and Boris returns, fit and well, I expect this spat will not have any effect
OK...BIG G..if we get the worst fatalities (once you count in the care sector)...the biggest GDP hit....the biggest rise isn unemployment....the longest to get out of lockdown....the worst prepared for a second wave because our testing and tracing ability is just not even in the game.....
We are looking at these low numbers in the UK...this is now likely on all counts....
And...the final touch....we are still talking about Brexit deadlines, and blaming people for criticising the Govt as remainers...
You cannot make up how terrible the Tories have been these last years...shocking...and now we have a bunch of ideological, inexperienced incompetents running the country.....bring back May please...bring back Cameron....help please...the UK is desperate for competent political leadership....
Williamson surely has to be regarded as the 2nd weakest performer at these press conferences after Patel.
He doesn't sound authoritative and he answers questions much less directly than others. Other ministers at least look as if they are (roughly) answering the question (usually).
OK, he beats Patel on numeracy - he managed to read out the numbers correctly. But other than that he's actually on a similar level to her.
I would agree.
He just said the PPE from Turkey will be here tomorrow. Has that been confirmed
If it hasn’t we’re stuffed.
Remember what happened to the planeload from Thailand bound for Germany. Trump nicked it.
"My lawyer friends (and I) like to think ourselves educated; we’re well-travelled, worldly people. Most of us went to Oxford, Cambridge, or Edinburgh. This isn’t to boast, because it’s acutely embarrassing to those who consider themselves rational, above the fray, or members of some sort of Oxbridge and Ancient Scottish meritocracy when Chris Lockwood, Europe Editor of The Economist and former No 10 policy wonk comes out with “this is not someone who was at death’s door a few days ago,” then moves onto “something incredibly fishy about the whole business”. FT columnist Frances Coppola, who got wonderfully Biblical, followed Lockwood off the next cliff over shortly thereafter. “Oh what a surprise, he discharged himself on Easter Sunday,” she intoned. “I have no doubt he was seriously ill, but stage-managing this to make it look like he is Jesus is ridiculous”."
It was bigged up for sure or he would not just have spent a few days in hospital and then came out and sounded perfect on a video of his rise from the grave. Now in hiding.
Bigged up? Do you have any evidence for that claim? What sort of political leader would voluntarily make themselves appear weaker...
Boris Johnson missed five consecutive emergency meetings
Can any of the PMs normal defenders give their best shot at defending why?
Big G? RobD?
Johnson joins an important lunar new year dragon eyes ritual on the day of a Cobra meeting is not an acceptable answer.
Thanks in advance
The firestorm against Boris is plainly out of control and I reject the hysteria around the Sunday Times story. The Cobra meetings in February were taken by the health secretary as the advice was not at that stage at the level it rose to in early march when Boris took control.
Of course the attacks are coming from a remain element and are vociferous as they hope to use this crisis to abort brexit and Boris stands in the way. This same group does not comment of on the requestioning of our PPE supplies from a French manufacturing company in 'an everyone for themselves move'
I expect to get a slew of attacks for making a case for Boris and I do accept mistakes have been made, but any future enquiry will have to ascertain if and by how much Boris overlooked or disregarded the scientific advise
Furthermore, Cobra meetings are attended by the first ministers of Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland representing the SNP, Labour and the DUP, and they have acted in lockstep with HMG and there is no criticism coming from them
You asked for a defence and this is a respectful response
Even today the polls idicate HMG retains the support of voters
BigG whether Boris' enemies (Gove?) are being mendacious or otherwise it LOOKS dreadful to the hitherto supportive public.
We will see.
If we see the peak passing and some easing over the next few weeks and Boris returns, fit and well, I expect this spat will not have any effect
From a personal point of view I am relatively comfortable with the Government's handling of the pandemic.Survival is my goal, so for my situation the lockdown is the right approach, and although when this is all over I will be significantly to the poorer, I believe it had to be done.
I could handle the lockdown for a few years if necessary but many are struggling after three weeks. As people begin to struggle financially agitation will ferment and the Government will lose its sheen. This will be a moment of great danger. Does Boris hold his nerve or capitulate to the naysayers? Will he follow his heart or his head? Will he stick with the science or revert to populism?
Williamson surely has to be regarded as the 2nd weakest performer at these press conferences after Patel.
He doesn't sound authoritative and he answers questions much less directly than others. Other ministers at least look as if they are (roughly) answering the question (usually).
OK, he beats Patel on numeracy - he managed to read out the numbers correctly. But other than that he's actually on a similar level to her.
I would agree.
He just said the PPE from Turkey will be here tomorrow. Has that been confirmed
If it hasn’t we’re stuffed.
Remember what happened to the planeload from Thailand bound for Germany. Trump nicked it.
And earlier today there was a news report of Macron nicking our stuff. It isn't just Trump doing that.
I’m past disgust and utterly bemused at how the government’s usual apologists seem to think it acceptable for a Prime Minister to take a hands-off approach to a looming pandemic. It begs the question what they think he is there for, if not to take an interest in such serious threats to the nation.
Boris Johnson missed five consecutive emergency meetings
Can any of the PMs normal defenders give their best shot at defending why?
Big G? RobD?
Johnson joins an important lunar new year dragon eyes ritual on the day of a Cobra meeting is not an acceptable answer.
Thanks in advance
The firestorm against Boris is plainly out of control and I reject the hysteria around the Sunday Times story. The Cobra meetings in February were taken by the health secretary as the advice was not at that stage at the level it rose to in early march when Boris took control.
Of course the attacks are coming from a remain element and are vociferous as they hope to use this crisis to abort brexit and Boris stands in the way. This same group does not comment of on the requestioning of our PPE supplies from a French manufacturing company in 'an everyone for themselves move'
I expect to get a slew of attacks for making a case for Boris and I do accept mistakes have been made, but any future enquiry will have to ascertain if and by how much Boris overlooked or disregarded the scientific advise
Furthermore, Cobra meetings are attended by the first ministers of Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland representing the SNP, Labour and the DUP, and they have acted in lockstep with HMG and there is no criticism coming from them
You asked for a defence and this is a respectful response
Even today the polls idicate HMG retains the support of voters
Early days. This has a long way to play yet...
Boris Johnson and the Government ARE culpable of handling this crisis exceptionally poorly. The PPE debacle and the lack of testing are examples of this. And the sh*t hasn't really hit the fan yet!
As I said earlier, this is a time we desperately need great leadership. Instead we have the disingenuous buffoon heading a hapless Government.
I doubt there is a politician in this country that could have done better unless they ignored the advice and accept far worse criticism when errors came to light
To undermine Boris you have to undermine the science recommended to him
Making shit decisions , when he could bother to attend meetings, and then trying to blame it on scientists does not cut it. He is in charge , he should consider all the evidence, not just a few handpicked Tory lickspittle victims set up to take blame if it all went wrong, and then he decides and gets the glory or the brickbats.
Page 22 of the Sunday Times points out that the Wuhan death toll increased by exactly 50% (to the nearest whole number) from 2,579 to 3,869 which seems rather suspicious.
Chinese reported figures are suspicious, who'd have thought that?
We (the UK) are not counting countless thousands dying in care homes...so pot calling kettle springs to mind....
Those are included in the ONS figures. Are you really comparing the two?
do they update their slides based on ONS or do they just show the public the hospital numbers. Majority of the great unwashed will never have heard of the ONS so one hopes they are not being economical with the facts.
The cumulative body count slide now shows two lines for the UK - the up-to-date number (hospital only) and the total mortality (all settings) which lags something like 10 days or two weeks behind, because of delays in collating the information which have previously been discussed here and elsewhere.
I am assuming that the all settings line incorporates all deaths in which Covid-19 was mentioned as a cause, as collated by ONS, NRS and NISRA.
Page 22 of the Sunday Times points out that the Wuhan death toll increased by exactly 50% (to the nearest whole number) from 2,579 to 3,869 which seems rather suspicious.
Chinese reported figures are suspicious, who'd have thought that?
We (the UK) are not counting countless thousands dying in care homes...so pot calling kettle springs to mind....
Those are included in the ONS figures. Are you really comparing the two?
do they update their slides based on ONS
Yes.
They show two lines, one the "hospital only" deaths which is the most up to date and a second "all deaths" line which lags because the data lags.
Page 22 of the Sunday Times points out that the Wuhan death toll increased by exactly 50% (to the nearest whole number) from 2,579 to 3,869 which seems rather suspicious.
Chinese reported figures are suspicious, who'd have thought that?
We (the UK) are not counting countless thousands dying in care homes...so pot calling kettle springs to mind....
Those are included in the ONS figures. Are you really comparing the two?
do they update their slides based on ONS or do they just show the public the hospital numbers. Majority of the great unwashed will never have heard of the ONS so one hopes they are not being economical with the facts.
The cumulative body count slide now shows two lines for the UK - the up-to-date number (hospital only) and the total mortality (all settings) which lags something like 10 days or two weeks behind, because of delays in collating the information which have previously been discussed here and elsewhere.
I am assuming that the all settings line incorporates all deaths in which Covid-19 was mentioned as a cause, as collated by ONS, NRS and NISRA.
I'm slightly confused. This cricketwyvern guy and other assorted Twitterati have been droning on about the fact that the daily death counts are not entirely up-to-date, but rather a compilation of many different actual days of death over a longer period of time with a similar time lag of 10-14 days.
What exactly was the argument again for not including those numbers?
Tea and biscuits time after numerous hours gardening.
On topic, I agree with TSE. I voted for Dr Rosena for deputy, as the best candidate. She's someone on the up. I'd expect to see her promoted in the next reshuffle (or following a resignation) and be one of the most prominent faces of the party from now.
Page 22 of the Sunday Times points out that the Wuhan death toll increased by exactly 50% (to the nearest whole number) from 2,579 to 3,869 which seems rather suspicious.
Chinese reported figures are suspicious, who'd have thought that?
We (the UK) are not counting countless thousands dying in care homes...so pot calling kettle springs to mind....
Those are included in the ONS figures. Are you really comparing the two?
do they update their slides based on ONS or do they just show the public the hospital numbers. Majority of the great unwashed will never have heard of the ONS so one hopes they are not being economical with the facts.
Not like you Malc, to give 'people like that' the benefit of the doubt. You feeling well?
OKC, I have done a bit of gardening , am sitting in the sun , had a few beers I am in mellow mood so being very generous. What a beautiful day it is. greenery all around, birds chirping , it is great to be alive.
Schools reopening discussions do seem to gloss over the key point that the unit of infection is, for all practical purposes, the household rather than the individual. If kids are less likely to die (albeit still have a noticeable chance of being sick as a dog and may or may not carry health effects forwards throughout life), what about the rest of their households? Will we have a scenario where only teachers under 45 in perfect health and fitness (and with everyone in their household under 45 and in perfect health and fitness) teach only schoolchildren with perfect health and fitness (if you have diabetes, or an impaired immune system, or asthma, or you’re rather chunky, you’d better stay home), who are themselves from households with no-one over 45, and no-one with any health issues (like diabetes, asthma, recovery from kidney stones, under treatment for anything, and God forbid any of the 31% of the population who are obese).
Because if that’s not true, the dear little virus vectors will take out loads of households. Just need one household infected in the catchment area, and if the kids don’t keep good social distancing at school (And if you’re going to rely on 100% obedience to social distancing amongst a demographic who believe themselves at minimum risk and with maximum likelihood of either rebelliousness or discipline issues, God help you), it’ll be everywhere in that catchment area within days.
Williamson surely has to be regarded as the 2nd weakest performer at these press conferences after Patel.
He doesn't sound authoritative and he answers questions much less directly than others. Other ministers at least look as if they are (roughly) answering the question (usually).
OK, he beats Patel on numeracy - he managed to read out the numbers correctly. But other than that he's actually on a similar level to her.
I would agree.
He just said the PPE from Turkey will be here tomorrow. Has that been confirmed
If it hasn’t we’re stuffed.
Remember what happened to the planeload from Thailand bound for Germany. Trump nicked it.
And earlier today there was a news report of Macron nicking our stuff. It isn't just Trump doing that.
I’m past disgust and utterly bemused at how the government’s usual apologists seem to think it acceptable for a Prime Minister to take a hands-off approach to a looming pandemic. It begs the question what they think he is there for, if not to take an interest in such serious threats to the nation.
What does need laying out before lost in the mists of time is what info was available from say 1st Jan and what meetings and decisions were taken against that time line. Nobody could object to that could they?
My hospital now has 26 of 32 ventilators in use and has had 63 deaths in last 3 weeks
High point was 13/4/20 when only 1 vent was spare
The pre Covid Vent capacity was 22 so still using some of boosted Capacity
These people who obsess about ending the already looser than some countries "lockdown" have their priorities completely wrong.
We defintely need to start treating more non Covid patients who must he suffering now
There's a big problem heading the NHS's way later this summer and into the Autumn. Backlog of elective surgery. Cancellation of "non-urgent" operations that WILL have to be recategorized as urgent in six months time. Huge numbers of doctors and nurses who will have basically gone months without a holiday needing to be given time off. Oh, and the standard winter crisis.
Oh, and COVID-19 second wave...
It might be that the first level of lockdown reduction - after the COVID19 numbers have gone down and testing allows you to declare *some* hospitals COVID19 free - would be to start to work through the medical backlog.
My duties are to run a skeleton non covid service for the urgent stuff. We have plenty of capacity to do so, and have adapted things for maximum safety. The hard bit is getting the patients to turn up, they are so shit-scared.
Mind you, we did get one the other day that flustered sister a bit. Had positive Covid-19 swabs 12 days prior that no one had told him about. Took a while to clean up the waiting area.
As Dr Rosena says in her tweets above, we are terrible at isolating cases for the 14 days required (7 days in UK for some unknown reason). It is going to be very hard to get R below 1 without isolating cases.
The official advice of the health service in Scotland is that you are no longer infectious 7 days after you got symptoms, even if you still have the symptoms and can return to work. I am as convinced as a non medic can be that that is just dangerous rubbish. I don't believe, for example, that so many NHS staff would be getting infected if the vast majority of their patients were not still infectious.
This seems to me to be a major weak point in the effectiveness of the lock down.
Williamson surely has to be regarded as the 2nd weakest performer at these press conferences after Patel.
He doesn't sound authoritative and he answers questions much less directly than others. Other ministers at least look as if they are (roughly) answering the question (usually).
OK, he beats Patel on numeracy - he managed to read out the numbers correctly. But other than that he's actually on a similar level to her.
I would agree.
He just said the PPE from Turkey will be here tomorrow. Has that been confirmed
If it hasn’t we’re stuffed.
Remember what happened to the planeload from Thailand bound for Germany. Trump nicked it.
And earlier today there was a news report of Macron nicking our stuff. It isn't just Trump doing that.
Page 22 of the Sunday Times points out that the Wuhan death toll increased by exactly 50% (to the nearest whole number) from 2,579 to 3,869 which seems rather suspicious.
Chinese reported figures are suspicious, who'd have thought that?
We (the UK) are not counting countless thousands dying in care homes...so pot calling kettle springs to mind....
Those are included in the ONS figures. Are you really comparing the two?
do they update their slides based on ONS or do they just show the public the hospital numbers. Majority of the great unwashed will never have heard of the ONS so one hopes they are not being economical with the facts.
Not like you Malc, to give 'people like that' the benefit of the doubt. You feeling well?
OKC, I have done a bit of gardening , am sitting in the sun , had a few beers I am in mellow mood so being very generous. What a beautiful day it is. greenery all around, birds chirping , it is great to be alive.
Lovely day here too Malc. Only one problem, my wife and her friends have discovered Zoom.
I’m past disgust and utterly bemused at how the government’s usual apologists seem to think it acceptable for a Prime Minister to take a hands-off approach to a looming pandemic. It begs the question what they think he is there for, if not to take an interest in such serious threats to the nation.
The mere fact that some don't even accept it looks bad is startling. Some of the lame excuses made by PB's Boris loyalists are of 'the dog ate my homework' standard.
Some of those that have accepted it to be an optical nightmare are now suggesting it will be forgotten if the Government lifts the lockdown early to curry favourable public opinion.
I’m past disgust and utterly bemused at how the government’s usual apologists seem to think it acceptable for a Prime Minister to take a hands-off approach to a looming pandemic. It begs the question what they think he is there for, if not to take an interest in such serious threats to the nation.
What does need laying out before lost in the mists of time is what info was available from say 1st Jan and what meetings and decisions were taken against that time line. Nobody could object to that could they?
You can look for yourself. The minutes of the advisory meetings have all been made public.
I cannot believe I agree with Andrew Neil, today's call was the most vomit inducing pap I think I have heard yet. He sounded like the Reverend I am Jolly and the bollox thanks and crap to young people, is he deranged enough to think any young person would be listening to that crap, was excrutiating. Are there any normal humans in the cabinet.
School leaders have called for an end to “irresponsible speculation” over dates for schools in England to reopen, as ministers were forced to reject suggestions that many pupils would be back in classrooms next month.
The Sunday Times claimed that “senior ministers” had backed a plan for schools to partially reopen on three possible dates: immediately after the current lockdown is scheduled to end on 11 May; after the half-term holiday on 1 June; or at the start of the school year in September.
Thank you. I had a momentary panic that my GCSE and A-level classes might be told to take exams without any revision, which would not have been pleasant for them. I say that not forgetting I have been furious at the decision to cancel exams.
To quote CS Forester:
Order, counter-order, disorder.
I believe the 11 May part of the story was specifically denied.
Given the schools were shut, what other options were there to abandoning the exams?
Genuine question.
I can't see an answer that works - getting kit in place to provide online lessons for every child in every state school will take a serious amount of time.
The disruption would massively impact results.
But that’s the point. Schools are not shut. I am back at work tomorrow.
If they could be kept open to babysit the children of key workers, they could have been kept open for exam classes.
At any rate, the option could have been left open until now, rather than being closed off so early.
If kept open for GCSE and A level student, what percentage of the school attending population would be going to school?
Again, a genuine request for knowledge.
Am I correct, that the percentage of children currently in school is a single digit percentage of the normal number?
Well, yes, because the rest of them have been banned from attending.
There was no noticeable impact on attendance among pupils until that happened.
We did have some problems with staffing but they could have been overcome if just 11, 12 and 13 had been in school.
I'm trying to get an understanding of the relative levels - say we have 5% in school at the moment. vs what % if we added in GCSE and A level years?
At the moment the figure I’ve seen is 2% attendance on average. Given that year eleven is 16% of a school and year thirteen, pitching a low figure, would be 10%, you are talking about over a quarter of pupils being in school.
Then again, in my comfortably off middle class school the attendance had already tumbled to 50% the week before lockdown as parents voted with their feet. Given the comments we are getting from pastoral updates there is no great desire from the vast majority of parents to reverse that. In an inner city comprehensive? Maybe less so. Cue the inevitable headlines - ‘well off parents keep their children safe including (insert name of minister x and health official y) whilst the rest of us gamble with our lives’.
In a year's time, we'll be able to look back and see properly where the mistakes were made. Nothing will ever be perfect. Jenny Harries is growing on me. She even mentioned 'confounding factors' and she must know the kiddies wouldn't understand that.
Williamson is dull and shows too much deference to childish questions.
Any question that begins ... "Can you guarantee ..." deserves a kick in the bollocks. I'm too gallant to assume a lsdy would ask it.
Williamson surely has to be regarded as the 2nd weakest performer at these press conferences after Patel.
He doesn't sound authoritative and he answers questions much less directly than others. Other ministers at least look as if they are (roughly) answering the question (usually).
OK, he beats Patel on numeracy - he managed to read out the numbers correctly. But other than that he's actually on a similar level to her.
I would agree.
He just said the PPE from Turkey will be here tomorrow. Has that been confirmed
If it hasn’t we’re stuffed.
Remember what happened to the planeload from Thailand bound for Germany. Trump nicked it.
And earlier today there was a news report of Macron nicking our stuff. It isn't just Trump doing that.
Comments
And all the evidence strongly suggests they had not consulted OFQUAL, the exam boards or the universities in advance.
{checks - bait on hook, hook backed with piano wire, 1000Kg monofilament... all good}
Then later a secondary, modern vaccine.
He doesn't sound authoritative and he answers questions much less directly than others. Other ministers at least look as if they are (roughly) answering the question (usually).
OK, he beats Patel on numeracy - he managed to read out the numbers correctly. But other than that he's actually on a similar level to her.
Also suicidally reckless, but hey, it’s Hurricane Higgins.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6178114/
If we see the peak passing and some easing over the next few weeks and Boris returns, fit and well, I expect this spat will not have any effect
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2010025
That would include some year twelves.
https://twitter.com/afneil/status/1251896552727158785?s=20
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0088807/
popped into my head...
As I said this morning, there are two forms of mistake at work here:- if the Government took scientific advice and that advice turned out to be incorrect, that's unfortunate and while the experts can be held responsible, the Government cannot.
OTOH, if the Government took advice and chose to ignore it, then I think we have a right to know who took that decision and why.
As for the notion this is all a Remain plot to abort Brexit - I've read and written some nonsense on here over the years but that's right up there.The rest of us have moved on.
I think if he could back in time he'd back Remain now.
They know it's damaging because it plays on the theme that the PM is lazy and can't be bothered with the detailed hard work.
If May had missed 5 COBRA meetings in a month the general reaction would have been that there must have been a good reason. Johnson misses 5 and everything thinks "lazy bastard"
It is damaging because it has now been reported that Blair and Brown not only attended all theirs but chaired them
Johnson is not a politician with any gravitas. He thought being PM would be a bit of jolly jape, I doubt he was ever that committed to Brexit other than as the best vehicle for his own advancement.
He just said the PPE from Turkey will be here tomorrow. Has that been confirmed
Boris Johnson and the Government ARE culpable of handling this crisis exceptionally poorly. The PPE debacle and the lack of testing are examples of this. And the sh*t hasn't really hit the fan yet!
As I said earlier, this is a time we desperately need great leadership. Instead we have the disingenuous buffoon heading a hapless Government.
They show two lines, one the "hospital only" deaths which is the most up to date and a second "all deaths" line which lags because the data lags.
I am assuming that the all settings line incorporates all deaths in which Covid-19 was mentioned as a cause, as collated by ONS, NRS and NISRA.
*titter*
To undermine Boris you have to undermine the science recommended to him
If kids are less likely to die (albeit still have a noticeable chance of being sick as a dog and may or may not carry health effects forwards throughout life), what about the rest of their households?
Will we have a scenario where only teachers under 45 in perfect health and fitness (and with everyone in their household under 45 and in perfect health and fitness) teach only schoolchildren with perfect health and fitness (if you have diabetes, or an impaired immune system, or asthma, or you’re rather chunky, you’d better stay home), who are themselves from households with
no-one over 45, and no-one with any health issues (like diabetes, asthma, recovery from kidney stones, under treatment for anything, and God forbid any of the 31% of the population who are obese).
Because if that’s not true, the dear little virus vectors will take out loads of households. Just need one household infected in the catchment area, and if the kids don’t keep good social distancing at school (And if you’re going to rely on 100% obedience to social distancing amongst a demographic who believe themselves at minimum risk and with maximum likelihood of either rebelliousness or discipline issues, God help you), it’ll be everywhere in that catchment area within days.
Coronavirus lockdown: Laptops offered for online school lessons at home
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-52341596
As for the question on laptops for kids, Williamson covered that in boring detail in his introduction. Had the questioner been asleep? Come on, we don't expect them to be intelligent but at least, stay awake.
We are looking at these low numbers in the UK...this is now likely on all counts....
And...the final touch....we are still talking about Brexit deadlines, and blaming people for criticising the Govt as remainers...
You cannot make up how terrible the Tories have been these last years...shocking...and now we have a bunch of ideological, inexperienced incompetents running the country.....bring back May please...bring back Cameron....help please...the UK is desperate for competent political leadership....
I could handle the lockdown for a few years if necessary but many are struggling after three weeks. As people begin to struggle financially agitation will ferment and the Government will lose its sheen. This will be a moment of great danger. Does Boris hold his nerve or capitulate to the naysayers? Will he follow his heart or his head? Will he stick with the science or revert to populism?
What exactly was the argument again for not including those numbers?
On topic, I agree with TSE. I voted for Dr Rosena for deputy, as the best candidate. She's someone on the up. I'd expect to see her promoted in the next reshuffle (or following a resignation) and be one of the most prominent faces of the party from now.
What a beautiful day it is. greenery all around, birds chirping , it is great to be alive.
This seems to me to be a major weak point in the effectiveness of the lock down.
Some of those that have accepted it to be an optical nightmare are now suggesting it will be forgotten if the Government lifts the lockdown early to curry favourable public opinion.
Are there any normal humans in the cabinet.
Then again, in my comfortably off middle class school the attendance had already tumbled to 50% the week before lockdown as parents voted with their feet. Given the comments we are getting from pastoral updates there is no great desire from the vast majority of parents to reverse that. In an inner city comprehensive? Maybe less so. Cue the inevitable headlines - ‘well off parents keep their children safe including (insert name of minister x and health official y) whilst the rest of us gamble with our lives’.
Williamson is dull and shows too much deference to childish questions.
Any question that begins ... "Can you guarantee ..." deserves a kick in the bollocks. I'm too gallant to assume a lsdy would ask it.
https://twitter.com/jeremyduns/status/1251863331318771713?s=21