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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » At what stage is lockdown going to crumble?

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  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,047

    Question: How effective a disinfectant against the current Creeping Crud is direct sunlight? On sunny days have been putting gloves I wear whenever I leave my humble abode out in the sun for several hours. Does that actually do any good? Enquiring minds want to know!

    I would hazard a guess it does more good than not putting them out in the sun, but not nearly as much good as disinfecting them.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,010

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    glw said:

    stodge said:

    Nigelb said:

    It’s not a choice between sav8ng lives and saving the economy...

    https://www.technologyreview.com/2020/04/08/998785/stop-covid-or-save-the-economy-we-can-do-both/

    Once again, human ingenuity comes to the rescue. Mass testing is probably a big step forward but how would we do it - I live in a cul-de-sac of 32 houses so let's say 100-150 people live in my street? Testing everyone is feasible but assumes everyone would be there to be tested.

    How long would it take and how quickly would the results be available?

    It's a grand idea but the practicalities and logistics worry me.
    I agree mass testing is the key, but the logistics are going to be a far bigger problem than buying and manufacturing the machines. You would need an army of people to carry out 20 million tests a day, transport swabs, do all the "paperwork", and process results. The bottlenecks in the process will be a real headache.
    Meanwhile we're still on about 10,000 a day, and the Chief Scientific Adviser is taking comfort from the low numbers of positive tests. :-(
    16,000+ tests on today's figures. Basically doubled it in a week. Much closer to the 25,000 a day they talked about for the start of April, but still a very long way to get anywhere near 100,000 tests a day they now set as the line in the sand.
    You're looking at the wrong column, I think. 10,713 people tested in today's figures.
    No, I said 16,000 TESTS. The benchmarks have always been against the capacity of number of TESTS they could do, as there are a whole load of reasons why they might need to test some people more than once, which aren't in your control.

    As far as I understand, the new benchmark isn't 100,000 people a day, it is TESTS.
    Well, you're making some kind of mistake, because the number of people tested today - 10,713 - is only slightly up on a week ago - 10,215. Perhaps you are confusing tests and people tested in last week's figures?
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,846

    So I reckon that’s Robert Jenrick next out of the cabinet.

    Um Nope. Visiting your aged parents to drop off food and not entering the house is almost exactly what the Government wants everyone to do. It means the parents don't have to go out themselves.
    But the local community were already dropping off stuff to his parents.
    Immaterial. Who is to say that they are not the ones who should be criticised for making unnecessary journeys? You don't get to dictate who is the right person to be making deliveries just to suit your own particular political narrative.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,286
    "Cabinet minister Robert Jenrick visited his parents during Covid-19 lockdown

    Exclusive: Housing secretary made trip despite telling public to stay home except for essential journeys"

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/09/cabinet-minister-robert-jenrick-visited-his-parents-during-covid-19-lockdown
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,243
    "The truth is the Democratic establishment would prefer President Trump over President Sanders. Would you?"

    Hell no I would not! And neither would 99% of what's very-loosely called the Democratic establishment.

    The "Sanders as Socialist Demon" line = "Biden as Demented Vegtable" line = Putinist propaganda (im)pure & simple
  • So I reckon that’s Robert Jenrick next out of the cabinet.

    Um Nope. Visiting your aged parents to drop off food and not entering the house is almost exactly what the Government wants everyone to do. It means the parents don't have to go out themselves.
    But the local community were already dropping off stuff to his parents.
    Immaterial. Who is to say that they are not the ones who should be criticised for making unnecessary journeys? You don't get to dictate who is the right person to be making deliveries just to suit your own particular political narrative.
    He's being judged not by me but by standards he set for the country.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408

    kle4 said:

    geoffw said:

    .

    maaarsh said:
    The WP piece and the tweet seem to be larded with heavy irony. I for one think the Swedes should be applauded for having their own minds on this.
    Most Swedes still do as they're told. More and more Swedes are beginning to pay attention to the numbers.

    Fatalities per capita in Sweden are 8 times higher than in Finland, 4 times higher than in Norway, 3 times higher than in Germany, twice as high as in Denmark.
    In Taiwan apparently life is back to normal.

    Deaths? 5. That's for about the same population as all of Scandinavia.

    I'd say that at the end of this Taiwan deserves country status.
    Deserve doesn't count into it with geopolitics of course.
    I hadn't realised before this crisis that China controlled who could or couldn't have country status..
    Do they?

    But who does or does not get recognised certainly gets impacted by global politics more than other criteria.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,243

    Question: How effective a disinfectant against the current Creeping Crud is direct sunlight? On sunny days have been putting gloves I wear whenever I leave my humble abode out in the sun for several hours. Does that actually do any good? Enquiring minds want to know!

    I would hazard a guess it does more good than not putting them out in the sun, but not nearly as much good as disinfecting them.
    Touche!
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,038
    TGOHF666 said:
    Well, that's a tiny something.

    Let's hope they follow through and it's not all for show (I'm not holding my breath).
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,846

    So I reckon that’s Robert Jenrick next out of the cabinet.

    Um Nope. Visiting your aged parents to drop off food and not entering the house is almost exactly what the Government wants everyone to do. It means the parents don't have to go out themselves.
    But the local community were already dropping off stuff to his parents.
    Immaterial. Who is to say that they are not the ones who should be criticised for making unnecessary journeys? You don't get to dictate who is the right person to be making deliveries just to suit your own particular political narrative.
    He's being judged not by me but by standards he set for the country.
    And he is meeting those standards perfectly well thankyou. So if you think otherwise then clearly it is you who is doing the judging.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    edited April 2020
    Andy_JS said:

    "Cabinet minister Robert Jenrick visited his parents during Covid-19 lockdown

    Exclusive: Housing secretary made trip despite telling public to stay home except for essential journeys"

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/09/cabinet-minister-robert-jenrick-visited-his-parents-during-covid-19-lockdown

    Naughty boy. Go the Ardern route? Unless he can say it was essential?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    So I reckon that’s Robert Jenrick next out of the cabinet.

    Um Nope. Visiting your aged parents to drop off food and not entering the house is almost exactly what the Government wants everyone to do. It means the parents don't have to go out themselves.
    But the local community were already dropping off stuff to his parents.
    Immaterial. Who is to say that they are not the ones who should be criticised for making unnecessary journeys? You don't get to dictate who is the right person to be making deliveries just to suit your own particular political narrative.
    And he dropped off medicine supplies too.

    Food and medicine is essential. He didn't go inside their home either. Non-story the Guardian should be ashamed of publishing this.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,038

    So I reckon that’s Robert Jenrick next out of the cabinet.

    Um Nope. Visiting your aged parents to drop off food and not entering the house is almost exactly what the Government wants everyone to do. It means the parents don't have to go out themselves.
    It's not about what the Government wants everyone to do. It's about scoring a hit and taking someone down.

    And it's a game so many people want to play.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited April 2020
    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    glw said:

    stodge said:

    Nigelb said:

    It’s not a choice between sav8ng lives and saving the economy...

    https://www.technologyreview.com/2020/04/08/998785/stop-covid-or-save-the-economy-we-can-do-both/

    Once again, human ingenuity comes to the rescue. Mass testing is probably a big step forward but how would we do it - I live in a cul-de-sac of 32 houses so let's say 100-150 people live in my street? Testing everyone is feasible but assumes everyone would be there to be tested.

    How long would it take and how quickly would the results be available?

    It's a grand idea but the practicalities and logistics worry me.
    I agree mass testing is the key, but the logistics are going to be a far bigger problem than buying and manufacturing the machines. You would need an army of people to carry out 20 million tests a day, transport swabs, do all the "paperwork", and process results. The bottlenecks in the process will be a real headache.
    Meanwhile we're still on about 10,000 a day, and the Chief Scientific Adviser is taking comfort from the low numbers of positive tests. :-(
    16,000+ tests on today's figures. Basically doubled it in a week. Much closer to the 25,000 a day they talked about for the start of April, but still a very long way to get anywhere near 100,000 tests a day they now set as the line in the sand.
    You're looking at the wrong column, I think. 10,713 people tested in today's figures.
    No, I said 16,000 TESTS. The benchmarks have always been against the capacity of number of TESTS they could do, as there are a whole load of reasons why they might need to test some people more than once, which aren't in your control.

    As far as I understand, the new benchmark isn't 100,000 people a day, it is TESTS.
    Well, you're making some kind of mistake, because the number of people tested today - 10,713 - is only slightly up on a week ago - 10,215. Perhaps you are confusing tests and people tested in last week's figures?
    The 8,000 is more like 10 days ago I think. But no I am not making a mistake. Previously, they couldn't test loads of people multiple times as they didn't have capacity.

    Now it seems like they are basically testing everybody twice, and this is crucial, as the test is only about 75-80% accurate, due to issue with collection of the sample.

    Still miles off where we need to be, and the really big concern is these antibody tests that nobody seem to be able to crack. That is where the original Boris quote of 250,000 tests a day came from. It was presumed by now we would all be able to order them off Amazon or pop down to Boots and do the test.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 4,861
    Omnium said:

    eristdoof said:

    Omnium said:

    Sandpit said:

    Omnium said:

    Sandpit said:

    Omnium said:

    malcolmg said:

    Omnium said:

    Genuinely not sure how I feel about this. MPs getting an additional 10K each for their offices to be transferred to home working. Seems wrong to me when no one else is being helped in this way.

    https://mcusercontent.com/5c1bd78521a0f65af80876eca/files/cfb4143a-6a9b-4439-9fdf-94b2626318bc/IPSA_Coronavirus_Guidance_version_19_03_2020.pdf

    I'm all for it. We need to accumulate evidence for the hangings.

    Some MPs are really quite poor financially. (Many more very poor generally).

    If there is a demonstrable need for that funding then that's fine. A very slight increase in the rope budget might also be wise.
    There will be very very few, those outside the safe seats for life , that do not retire millionaires.
    Evening Malcolm.

    Quite true, but then being a millionaire as a pensioner these days is meaningless. My brother, who works for the state in an average sort of a job, has a pension that is worth a million or so.

    The 'millionaire' tag really has to move on to be around the 10 million mark.

    Actually the SNP MPs have slightly higher costs in their long commute. Cheaper home costs though too. (The croft being cheaper than a house obviously!)
    No. It's almost impossible for 95% of private sector workers to retire with such massive millionaire pensions. It's become a huge disconnect between public and private sector since Brown's reforms in 1998.
    What do you think a millionaire pension looks like?

    It's about 30k per year. Senior nurses, tube drivers, headmasters. They all get that.
    Exactly, all public sector workers. Most private sector workers are retiring on a fraction of that pension.
    What sort of a fraction?
    11/9
    ok. that seems to not be widely accepted, but if you win the argumen then good for you!
    It was just a throw away comment as to how silly the phrase "a fraction of" is.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,405

    Some good news.

    Found out at last week's clap that my next door neighbour (who is an OAP) had been taken into hospital and tested positive for COVID19 and had been on and taken off the ventilators but was still in hospital.

    Happily she is now safe and well at home. Just spoke to her today during this week's clap. She's gotten over the virus and is now through it.

    That is a positive piece of news. And it must have given the ICU team a real boost to see her pull through.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,124
    Omnium said:

    Sandpit said:

    Omnium said:

    malcolmg said:

    Omnium said:

    Genuinely not sure how I feel about this. MPs getting an additional 10K each for their offices to be transferred to home working. Seems wrong to me when no one else is being helped in this way.

    https://mcusercontent.com/5c1bd78521a0f65af80876eca/files/cfb4143a-6a9b-4439-9fdf-94b2626318bc/IPSA_Coronavirus_Guidance_version_19_03_2020.pdf

    I'm all for it. We need to accumulate evidence for the hangings.

    Some MPs are really quite poor financially. (Many more very poor generally).

    If there is a demonstrable need for that funding then that's fine. A very slight increase in the rope budget might also be wise.
    There will be very very few, those outside the safe seats for life , that do not retire millionaires.
    Evening Malcolm.

    Quite true, but then being a millionaire as a pensioner these days is meaningless. My brother, who works for the state in an average sort of a job, has a pension that is worth a million or so.

    The 'millionaire' tag really has to move on to be around the 10 million mark.

    Actually the SNP MPs have slightly higher costs in their long commute. Cheaper home costs though too. (The croft being cheaper than a house obviously!)
    No. It's almost impossible for 95% of private sector workers to retire with such massive millionaire pensions. It's become a huge disconnect between public and private sector since Brown's reforms in 1998.
    What do you think a millionaire pension looks like?

    It's about 30k per year. Senior nurses, tube drivers, headmasters. They all get that.
    Wrong - headteachers will typically be on 40/50k+
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,846

    So I reckon that’s Robert Jenrick next out of the cabinet.

    Um Nope. Visiting your aged parents to drop off food and not entering the house is almost exactly what the Government wants everyone to do. It means the parents don't have to go out themselves.
    But the local community were already dropping off stuff to his parents.
    Immaterial. Who is to say that they are not the ones who should be criticised for making unnecessary journeys? You don't get to dictate who is the right person to be making deliveries just to suit your own particular political narrative.
    And he dropped off medicine supplies too.

    Food and medicine is essential. He didn't go inside their home either. Non-story the Guardian should be ashamed of publishing this.
    Yep and so should TSE for joining in. What they are doing is dangerous because the message they are sending, all for political point scoring, is that it is against the rules to visit your parents to drop off food and medicine. Hopefully no one is dumb enough to take them seriously but if they did they are putting people's lives at risk by confusing the message.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,038

    Some good news.

    Found out at last week's clap that my next door neighbour (who is an OAP) had been taken into hospital and tested positive for COVID19 and had been on and taken off the ventilators but was still in hospital.

    Happily she is now safe and well at home. Just spoke to her today during this week's clap. She's gotten over the virus and is now through it.

    Superb news.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842

    So I reckon that’s Robert Jenrick next out of the cabinet.

    Um Nope. Visiting your aged parents to drop off food and not entering the house is almost exactly what the Government wants everyone to do. It means the parents don't have to go out themselves.
    But the local community were already dropping off stuff to his parents.
    Immaterial. Who is to say that they are not the ones who should be criticised for making unnecessary journeys? You don't get to dictate who is the right person to be making deliveries just to suit your own particular political narrative.
    And he dropped off medicine supplies too.

    Food and medicine is essential. He didn't go inside their home either. Non-story the Guardian should be ashamed of publishing this.
    It'd be outrageous if he had to go for dropping off food and medication at his parent's house which he didn't even enter. This is the PRECISE reason you can visit your parents. I'd do the same with mine if I lived nearby (I don't live close enough to make it viable). Anyone who wants him to go for doing that should get in the sea.
  • Chris said:

    Chris said:

    HYUFD said:
    I suppose for a politician travelling to a photo opportunity would be equivalent to fetching food or medicine for the rest of us.
    I don't think the rules applying to the hoi polloi apply to IDS.
    It'll be interesting to see whether the police respond as they did to Stephen Kinnock when he posted the picture of himself and his parents.
    IDS is a patrician lawmaker, and should be above admonishment by plod. Stephen Kinnock is just a (insert your preferred profanities).
    At the risk of repeating the story, I was standing in the Porter's lodge of Queens' College Cambridge, where an irate Kinnock senior was arguing with a college porter, demanding to be let through the main gate to drop Stephen Kinnock's belongings for the start of term (which parents were not allowed to do). He got to the "Don't you know who I am stage?" (LOTO at the time) which met the reply from the late Mr Carter "Yes Sir, but you're still not getting in."
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    edited April 2020

    IanB2 said:

    TGOHF666 said:
    Well, I’m feeling pretty smug from my prediction earlier :)

    Certainly better than Eadric and Mystic who whilst wishing him well were clearly positioning themselves for yet another I told you so.
    https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1248319702025359361?s=20
    Why show he had been caging that bird I wonder? Lockdown, sure, but visually makes it seems like time to go free.
  • paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,461

    Question: How effective a disinfectant against the current Creeping Crud is direct sunlight? On sunny days have been putting gloves I wear whenever I leave my humble abode out in the sun for several hours. Does that actually do any good? Enquiring minds want to know!

    I read/heard UV light reduced the time the virus lived on any surface. But I cant point you to the source.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,846
    kle4 said:

    IanB2 said:

    TGOHF666 said:
    Well, I’m feeling pretty smug from my prediction earlier :)

    Certainly better than Eadric and Mystic who whilst wishing him well were clearly positioning themselves for yet another I told you so.
    https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1248319702025359361?s=20
    Why show he had been caging that bird I wonder? Lockdown, sure, but visually makes it seems like time to go free.
    Cause he's an evil Tory bastard of course. What sort of lefty are you if you don't know that? :) .
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,010

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    glw said:

    stodge said:

    Nigelb said:

    It’s not a choice between sav8ng lives and saving the economy...

    https://www.technologyreview.com/2020/04/08/998785/stop-covid-or-save-the-economy-we-can-do-both/

    Once again, human ingenuity comes to the rescue. Mass testing is probably a big step forward but how would we do it - I live in a cul-de-sac of 32 houses so let's say 100-150 people live in my street? Testing everyone is feasible but assumes everyone would be there to be tested.

    How long would it take and how quickly would the results be available?

    It's a grand idea but the practicalities and logistics worry me.
    I agree mass testing is the key, but the logistics are going to be a far bigger problem than buying and manufacturing the machines. You would need an army of people to carry out 20 million tests a day, transport swabs, do all the "paperwork", and process results. The bottlenecks in the process will be a real headache.
    Meanwhile we're still on about 10,000 a day, and the Chief Scientific Adviser is taking comfort from the low numbers of positive tests. :-(
    16,000+ tests on today's figures. Basically doubled it in a week. Much closer to the 25,000 a day they talked about for the start of April, but still a very long way to get anywhere near 100,000 tests a day they now set as the line in the sand.
    You're looking at the wrong column, I think. 10,713 people tested in today's figures.
    No, I said 16,000 TESTS. The benchmarks have always been against the capacity of number of TESTS they could do, as there are a whole load of reasons why they might need to test some people more than once, which aren't in your control.

    As far as I understand, the new benchmark isn't 100,000 people a day, it is TESTS.
    Well, you're making some kind of mistake, because the number of people tested today - 10,713 - is only slightly up on a week ago - 10,215. Perhaps you are confusing tests and people tested in last week's figures?
    The 8,000 is more like 10 days ago I think. But no I am not making a mistake. Previously, they couldn't test loads of people multiple times as they didn't have capacity.
    Hmm. Well, obviously it can't have doubled in the past week, as you claimed.

    But really the number of tests is beside the point anyway. The point I made is that the number of people tested has been stuck at about 10,000 a day for some time, so it makes no sense to read any significance into the fact that new cases per day have stopped rising.

    New cases is based on the number of people who test positive, not the number of positive tests, if people are being tested twice!
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,405
    Proof that all those buggers going out for exercise are a menace. From BBC:

    When a cyclist or pedestrian sneezes, coughs or even just exhales, the saliva particles are left behind in the air. Which means the person coming up behind them passes through this cloud of droplets.

    By using methods used to enhance athletes' performances, the teams from Eindhoven University of Technology and Leuven University found the greatest risk of infection existed in the slipstream.

    On the basis of these results, the scientists advise that those on the move should be given more of a social distance. Walkers should get at least four metres, runners 10 metres and cyclists at least 20 metres.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,010
    kle4 said:

    IanB2 said:

    TGOHF666 said:
    Well, I’m feeling pretty smug from my prediction earlier :)

    Certainly better than Eadric and Mystic who whilst wishing him well were clearly positioning themselves for yet another I told you so.
    https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1248319702025359361?s=20
    Why show he had been caging that bird I wonder? Lockdown, sure, but visually makes it seems like time to go free.
    The clue is in the date of the cartoon. The cage is the EU, the bird is Britain.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited April 2020
    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    glw said:

    stodge said:

    Nigelb said:

    It’s not a choice between sav8ng lives and saving the economy...

    https://www.technologyreview.com/2020/04/08/998785/stop-covid-or-save-the-economy-we-can-do-both/

    Once again, human ingenuity comes to the rescue. Mass testing is probably a big step forward but how would we do it - I live in a cul-de-sac of 32 houses so let's say 100-150 people live in my street? Testing everyone is feasible but assumes everyone would be there to be tested.

    How long would it take and how quickly would the results be available?

    It's a grand idea but the practicalities and logistics worry me.
    I agree mass testing is the key, but the logistics are going to be a far bigger problem than buying and manufacturing the machines. You would need an army of people to carry out 20 million tests a day, transport swabs, do all the "paperwork", and process results. The bottlenecks in the process will be a real headache.
    Meanwhile we're still on about 10,000 a day, and the Chief Scientific Adviser is taking comfort from the low numbers of positive tests. :-(
    16,000+ tests on today's figures. Basically doubled it in a week. Much closer to the 25,000 a day they talked about for the start of April, but still a very long way to get anywhere near 100,000 tests a day they now set as the line in the sand.
    You're looking at the wrong column, I think. 10,713 people tested in today's figures.
    No, I said 16,000 TESTS. The benchmarks have always been against the capacity of number of TESTS they could do, as there are a whole load of reasons why they might need to test some people more than once, which aren't in your control.

    As far as I understand, the new benchmark isn't 100,000 people a day, it is TESTS.
    Well, you're making some kind of mistake, because the number of people tested today - 10,713 - is only slightly up on a week ago - 10,215. Perhaps you are confusing tests and people tested in last week's figures?
    The 8,000 is more like 10 days ago I think. But no I am not making a mistake. Previously, they couldn't test loads of people multiple times as they didn't have capacity.
    Hmm. Well, obviously it can't have doubled in the past week, as you claimed.

    But really the number of tests is beside the point anyway. The point I made is that the number of people tested has been stuck at about 10,000 a day for some time, so it makes no sense to read any significance into the fact that new cases per day have stopped rising.

    New cases is based on the number of people who test positive, not the number of positive tests, if people are being tested twice!
    No, it really isn't. It is testing capacity that is important.

    The reason its stuck at 10,000...rightly or wrongly, the policy is hospital admissions with suspected CV first and foremost, and we know admissions haven't increased massively.

    The UK government policy isn't to do community testing with anti-gen testing. TBH, there isn't a huge amount of point, once the virus is so widespread. Now we need to know who is a plague survivor and thus immune and safe to go out.

    South Korea have some crazy testing capacity, 100,000+, but most days they were only doing 25,000 even at the peak.

    The antigen tests are only useful to establish if you actually have it when you get to hospital or you are a doctor / nurse and could infect a load of people. The big increase in capacity they want is a) to be able to regularly do front line staff and b) have that capacity in place should this start to spread again in the future.
  • Proof that all those buggers going out for exercise are a menace. From BBC:

    When a cyclist or pedestrian sneezes, coughs or even just exhales, the saliva particles are left behind in the air. Which means the person coming up behind them passes through this cloud of droplets.

    By using methods used to enhance athletes' performances, the teams from Eindhoven University of Technology and Leuven University found the greatest risk of infection existed in the slipstream.

    On the basis of these results, the scientists advise that those on the move should be given more of a social distance. Walkers should get at least four metres, runners 10 metres and cyclists at least 20 metres.

    So I am doing a key service if I stay on my sofa? Can I tell SWMBO?
  • ChelyabinskChelyabinsk Posts: 488
    kle4 said:

    IanB2 said:

    TGOHF666 said:
    Well, I’m feeling pretty smug from my prediction earlier :)

    Certainly better than Eadric and Mystic who whilst wishing him well were clearly positioning themselves for yet another I told you so.
    https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1248319702025359361?s=20
    Why show he had been caging that bird I wonder? Lockdown, sure, but visually makes it seems like time to go free.
    The date on the cartoon is 1.2.20, indicating it's a Brexit reference.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    kle4 said:

    IanB2 said:

    TGOHF666 said:
    Well, I’m feeling pretty smug from my prediction earlier :)

    Certainly better than Eadric and Mystic who whilst wishing him well were clearly positioning themselves for yet another I told you so.
    https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1248319702025359361?s=20
    Why show he had been caging that bird I wonder? Lockdown, sure, but visually makes it seems like time to go free.
    To me the cartoon (especially the sunlight streams) makes it look like he's died and is facing heaven.

    Very glad he's out if ICU.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,047

    Question: How effective a disinfectant against the current Creeping Crud is direct sunlight? On sunny days have been putting gloves I wear whenever I leave my humble abode out in the sun for several hours. Does that actually do any good? Enquiring minds want to know!

    I would hazard a guess it does more good than not putting them out in the sun, but not nearly as much good as disinfecting them.
    Touche!
    Sorry, it wasn't meant to sound snide. I don't think it's a terrible idea or anything.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,010

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    glw said:

    stodge said:

    Nigelb said:

    It’s not a choice between sav8ng lives and saving the economy...

    https://www.technologyreview.com/2020/04/08/998785/stop-covid-or-save-the-economy-we-can-do-both/

    Once again, human ingenuity comes to the rescue. Mass testing is probably a big step forward but how would we do it - I live in a cul-de-sac of 32 houses so let's say 100-150 people live in my street? Testing everyone is feasible but assumes everyone would be there to be tested.

    How long would it take and how quickly would the results be available?

    It's a grand idea but the practicalities and logistics worry me.
    I agree mass testing is the key, but the logistics are going to be a far bigger problem than buying and manufacturing the machines. You would need an army of people to carry out 20 million tests a day, transport swabs, do all the "paperwork", and process results. The bottlenecks in the process will be a real headache.
    Meanwhile we're still on about 10,000 a day, and the Chief Scientific Adviser is taking comfort from the low numbers of positive tests. :-(
    16,000+ tests on today's figures. Basically doubled it in a week. Much closer to the 25,000 a day they talked about for the start of April, but still a very long way to get anywhere near 100,000 tests a day they now set as the line in the sand.
    You're looking at the wrong column, I think. 10,713 people tested in today's figures.
    No, I said 16,000 TESTS. The benchmarks have always been against the capacity of number of TESTS they could do, as there are a whole load of reasons why they might need to test some people more than once, which aren't in your control.

    As far as I understand, the new benchmark isn't 100,000 people a day, it is TESTS.
    Well, you're making some kind of mistake, because the number of people tested today - 10,713 - is only slightly up on a week ago - 10,215. Perhaps you are confusing tests and people tested in last week's figures?
    The 8,000 is more like 10 days ago I think. But no I am not making a mistake. Previously, they couldn't test loads of people multiple times as they didn't have capacity.
    Hmm. Well, obviously it can't have doubled in the past week, as you claimed.

    But really the number of tests is beside the point anyway. The point I made is that the number of people tested has been stuck at about 10,000 a day for some time, so it makes no sense to read any significance into the fact that new cases per day have stopped rising.

    New cases is based on the number of people who test positive, not the number of positive tests, if people are being tested twice!
    No, it really isn't. It is testing capacity that is important.

    The reason its stuck at 10,000...rightly or wrongly, the policy is hospital admissions with suspected CV first and foremost, and we know admissions haven't increased massively.

    South Korea have some crazy testing capacity, 100,000+, but most days they were only doing 25,000 even at the peak.

    The UK government policy isn't to do community testing with anti-gen testing. TBH, there isn't a huge amount of point, once the virus is so widespread. Now we need to know who is a plague survivor and thus immune and safe to go out.

    The antigen tests are only useful to establish if you actually have it when you get to hospital or you are a doctor / nurse and could infect a load of people.
    Have it your own way.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    Chris said:

    kle4 said:

    IanB2 said:

    TGOHF666 said:
    Well, I’m feeling pretty smug from my prediction earlier :)

    Certainly better than Eadric and Mystic who whilst wishing him well were clearly positioning themselves for yet another I told you so.
    https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1248319702025359361?s=20
    Why show he had been caging that bird I wonder? Lockdown, sure, but visually makes it seems like time to go free.
    The clue is in the date of the cartoon. The cage is the EU, the bird is Britain.
    Ah yes, I skipped past the date. Surprised I missed that one.
  • Chris said:

    HYUFD said:

    Chris said:

    HYUFD said:
    I suppose for a politician travelling to a photo opportunity would be equivalent to fetching food or medicine for the rest of us.
    https://twitter.com/MPIainDS/status/1246416727090569216?s=19
    https://twitter.com/MPIainDS/status/1248274506084429831?s=19
    Why do AgeConcern have to organise IDS's prescriptions. Surely he can organise them for himself!
    It means they organised the photo opportunity.
    The GE is not for 4 years...you don't think it was for a second tilt at leadership while Boris was out of action, surely?
    Or maybe for once actually delivering prescriptions to isolated pensioners in his constituency

    I do not like IDS at all, or his attitude , but sometimes opponents get things wrong due to political prejeudice
  • isamisam Posts: 40,731

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Alistair said:

    Chris said:

    Alistair said:



    I'm getting naked at numbers that are actually false and confirmably false with 30 seconds of checking.

    ?
    The graph isam posted with the wacky trend line that showed a number of people were brought back to life by the Corona virus at the start of March. It's numbers do not match the source it says it takes them from.
    Let’s see...

    https://twitter.com/asfarasdelgados/status/1248311155837284355?s=21

    What a clype!
    Hardly! I wanted him to justify his data/answer his critics. Are you worried he’ll come and beat them up? You can be their muscle like you were for Scott the Brit!
    It's odd that you seem to see things in terms of physical encounters. It's all just randos on the internet, squire.
    Aye, right enough.
  • isamisam Posts: 40,731
    If only Trump had listened to his predecessor

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spcj6KUr4aA
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,038
    I've heard so much about someone else becoming the 'host' on Zoom and invasive viruses this week that I'm now watching Aliens.
  • So I reckon that’s Robert Jenrick next out of the cabinet.

    Um Nope. Visiting your aged parents to drop off food and not entering the house is almost exactly what the Government wants everyone to do. It means the parents don't have to go out themselves.
    But the local community were already dropping off stuff to his parents.
    Immaterial. Who is to say that they are not the ones who should be criticised for making unnecessary journeys? You don't get to dictate who is the right person to be making deliveries just to suit your own particular political narrative.
    And he dropped off medicine supplies too.

    Food and medicine is essential. He didn't go inside their home either. Non-story the Guardian should be ashamed of publishing this.
    Looks crass by the Guardian.

    He is entitled to deliver medicine to his parents, my son does
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,405

    Question: How effective a disinfectant against the current Creeping Crud is direct sunlight? On sunny days have been putting gloves I wear whenever I leave my humble abode out in the sun for several hours. Does that actually do any good? Enquiring minds want to know!

    I read/heard UV light reduced the time the virus lived on any surface. But I cant point you to the source.
    It's the sun.
    First LOL of the evening!

    Much better than bickering about park benches.
  • isamisam Posts: 40,731
    felix said:

    Omnium said:

    Sandpit said:

    Omnium said:

    malcolmg said:

    Omnium said:

    Genuinely not sure how I feel about this. MPs getting an additional 10K each for their offices to be transferred to home working. Seems wrong to me when no one else is being helped in this way.

    https://mcusercontent.com/5c1bd78521a0f65af80876eca/files/cfb4143a-6a9b-4439-9fdf-94b2626318bc/IPSA_Coronavirus_Guidance_version_19_03_2020.pdf

    I'm all for it. We need to accumulate evidence for the hangings.

    Some MPs are really quite poor financially. (Many more very poor generally).

    If there is a demonstrable need for that funding then that's fine. A very slight increase in the rope budget might also be wise.
    There will be very very few, those outside the safe seats for life , that do not retire millionaires.
    Evening Malcolm.

    Quite true, but then being a millionaire as a pensioner these days is meaningless. My brother, who works for the state in an average sort of a job, has a pension that is worth a million or so.

    The 'millionaire' tag really has to move on to be around the 10 million mark.

    Actually the SNP MPs have slightly higher costs in their long commute. Cheaper home costs though too. (The croft being cheaper than a house obviously!)
    No. It's almost impossible for 95% of private sector workers to retire with such massive millionaire pensions. It's become a huge disconnect between public and private sector since Brown's reforms in 1998.
    What do you think a millionaire pension looks like?

    It's about 30k per year. Senior nurses, tube drivers, headmasters. They all get that.
    Wrong - headteachers will typically be on 40/50k+
    Blimey! I know of a headteacher, in an academy, on over twice that
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,789

    I've heard so much about someone else becoming the 'host' on Zoom and invasive viruses this week that I'm now watching Aliens.

    I wonder what pandemic-related terms will enter the lexicon after this.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,010

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    glw said:

    stodge said:

    Nigelb said:

    It’s not a choice between sav8ng lives and saving the economy...

    https://www.technologyreview.com/2020/04/08/998785/stop-covid-or-save-the-economy-we-can-do-both/

    Once again, human ingenuity comes to the rescue. Mass testing is probably a big step forward but how would we do it - I live in a cul-de-sac of 32 houses so let's say 100-150 people live in my street? Testing everyone is feasible but assumes everyone would be there to be tested.

    How long would it take and how quickly would the results be available?

    It's a grand idea but the practicalities and logistics worry me.
    I agree mass testing is the key, but the logistics are going to be a far bigger problem than buying and manufacturing the machines. You would need an army of people to carry out 20 million tests a day, transport swabs, do all the "paperwork", and process results. The bottlenecks in the process will be a real headache.
    Meanwhile we're still on about 10,000 a day, and the Chief Scientific Adviser is taking comfort from the low numbers of positive tests. :-(
    16,000+ tests on today's figures. Basically doubled it in a week. Much closer to the 25,000 a day they talked about for the start of April, but still a very long way to get anywhere near 100,000 tests a day they now set as the line in the sand.
    You're looking at the wrong column, I think. 10,713 people tested in today's figures.
    No, I said 16,000 TESTS. The benchmarks have always been against the capacity of number of TESTS they could do, as there are a whole load of reasons why they might need to test some people more than once, which aren't in your control.

    As far as I understand, the new benchmark isn't 100,000 people a day, it is TESTS.
    Well, you're making some kind of mistake, because the number of people tested today - 10,713 - is only slightly up on a week ago - 10,215. Perhaps you are confusing tests and people tested in last week's figures?
    The 8,000 is more like 10 days ago I think. But no I am not making a mistake. Previously, they couldn't test loads of people multiple times as they didn't have capacity.
    Actually, the figures from 30 March were 9100 tests on about 7000 individuals:
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-31/u-k-s-johnson-under-pressure-on-tests-as-coronavirus-spreads
  • glwglw Posts: 9,535
    16,000 dead in the US, and look at what Trump has to say.

    The Wall Street Journal always “forgets” to mention that the ratings for the White House Press Briefings are “through the roof” (Monday Night Football, Bachelor Finale, according to @nytimes) & is only way for me to escape the Fake News & get my views across. WSJ is Fake News!

    — Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) April 9, 2020
  • isam said:

    felix said:

    Omnium said:

    Sandpit said:

    Omnium said:

    malcolmg said:

    Omnium said:

    Genuinely not sure how I feel about this. MPs getting an additional 10K each for their offices to be transferred to home working. Seems wrong to me when no one else is being helped in this way.

    https://mcusercontent.com/5c1bd78521a0f65af80876eca/files/cfb4143a-6a9b-4439-9fdf-94b2626318bc/IPSA_Coronavirus_Guidance_version_19_03_2020.pdf

    I'm all for it. We need to accumulate evidence for the hangings.

    Some MPs are really quite poor financially. (Many more very poor generally).

    If there is a demonstrable need for that funding then that's fine. A very slight increase in the rope budget might also be wise.
    There will be very very few, those outside the safe seats for life , that do not retire millionaires.
    Evening Malcolm.

    Quite true, but then being a millionaire as a pensioner these days is meaningless. My brother, who works for the state in an average sort of a job, has a pension that is worth a million or so.

    The 'millionaire' tag really has to move on to be around the 10 million mark.

    Actually the SNP MPs have slightly higher costs in their long commute. Cheaper home costs though too. (The croft being cheaper than a house obviously!)
    No. It's almost impossible for 95% of private sector workers to retire with such massive millionaire pensions. It's become a huge disconnect between public and private sector since Brown's reforms in 1998.
    What do you think a millionaire pension looks like?

    It's about 30k per year. Senior nurses, tube drivers, headmasters. They all get that.
    Wrong - headteachers will typically be on 40/50k+
    Blimey! I know of a headteacher, in an academy, on over twice that
    They earn a good whack. 40-50k is on the low side. Double unlikely.

    I thought we were talking about their pensions!
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited April 2020
    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    glw said:

    stodge said:

    Nigelb said:

    It’s not a choice between sav8ng lives and saving the economy...

    https://www.technologyreview.com/2020/04/08/998785/stop-covid-or-save-the-economy-we-can-do-both/

    Once again, human ingenuity comes to the rescue. Mass testing is probably a big step forward but how would we do it - I live in a cul-de-sac of 32 houses so let's say 100-150 people live in my street? Testing everyone is feasible but assumes everyone would be there to be tested.

    How long would it take and how quickly would the results be available?

    It's a grand idea but the practicalities and logistics worry me.
    I agree mass testing is the key, but the logistics are going to be a far bigger problem than buying and manufacturing the machines. You would need an army of people to carry out 20 million tests a day, transport swabs, do all the "paperwork", and process results. The bottlenecks in the process will be a real headache.
    Meanwhile we're still on about 10,000 a day, and the Chief Scientific Adviser is taking comfort from the low numbers of positive tests. :-(
    16,000+ tests on today's figures. Basically doubled it in a week. Much closer to the 25,000 a day they talked about for the start of April, but still a very long way to get anywhere near 100,000 tests a day they now set as the line in the sand.
    You're looking at the wrong column, I think. 10,713 people tested in today's figures.
    No, I said 16,000 TESTS. The benchmarks have always been against the capacity of number of TESTS they could do, as there are a whole load of reasons why they might need to test some people more than once, which aren't in your control.

    As far as I understand, the new benchmark isn't 100,000 people a day, it is TESTS.
    Well, you're making some kind of mistake, because the number of people tested today - 10,713 - is only slightly up on a week ago - 10,215. Perhaps you are confusing tests and people tested in last week's figures?
    The 8,000 is more like 10 days ago I think. But no I am not making a mistake. Previously, they couldn't test loads of people multiple times as they didn't have capacity.
    Actually, the figures from 30 March were 9100 tests on about 7000 individuals:
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-31/u-k-s-johnson-under-pressure-on-tests-as-coronavirus-spreads
    Ok so 9,000 tests to 16,000 tests. But as you see only 7,000 individuals that day, basically most people got just 1 test. Now its most people getting 2.

    I don't know, but I would suggest what was having to happen, due to lack of capacity was somebody admitted, 1 test done, another test done the next day, compare results of both tests.

    Now I presume they are simply doing 2 tests on people in the same day.

    As stated previously, apparently the issue is getting a good collection of the sample, failure to do so can give you a false negative result. And because of this the overall accuracy rate of the test is 75-80%. But very few false positives. So they do two tests and if one comes back positive, you have it.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,047

    Question: How effective a disinfectant against the current Creeping Crud is direct sunlight? On sunny days have been putting gloves I wear whenever I leave my humble abode out in the sun for several hours. Does that actually do any good? Enquiring minds want to know!

    I read/heard UV light reduced the time the virus lived on any surface. But I cant point you to the source.
    It's the sun.
    First LOL of the evening!

    Much better than bickering about park benches.
    Agreed.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,010

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    glw said:

    stodge said:

    Nigelb said:

    It’s not a choice between sav8ng lives and saving the economy...

    https://www.technologyreview.com/2020/04/08/998785/stop-covid-or-save-the-economy-we-can-do-both/

    Once again, human ingenuity comes to the rescue. Mass testing is probably a big step forward but how would we do it - I live in a cul-de-sac of 32 houses so let's say 100-150 people live in my street? Testing everyone is feasible but assumes everyone would be there to be tested.

    How long would it take and how quickly would the results be available?

    It's a grand idea but the practicalities and logistics worry me.
    I agree mass testing is the key, but the logistics are going to be a far bigger problem than buying and manufacturing the machines. You would need an army of people to carry out 20 million tests a day, transport swabs, do all the "paperwork", and process results. The bottlenecks in the process will be a real headache.
    Meanwhile we're still on about 10,000 a day, and the Chief Scientific Adviser is taking comfort from the low numbers of positive tests. :-(
    16,000+ tests on today's figures. Basically doubled it in a week. Much closer to the 25,000 a day they talked about for the start of April, but still a very long way to get anywhere near 100,000 tests a day they now set as the line in the sand.
    You're looking at the wrong column, I think. 10,713 people tested in today's figures.
    No, I said 16,000 TESTS. The benchmarks have always been against the capacity of number of TESTS they could do, as there are a whole load of reasons why they might need to test some people more than once, which aren't in your control.

    As far as I understand, the new benchmark isn't 100,000 people a day, it is TESTS.
    Well, you're making some kind of mistake, because the number of people tested today - 10,713 - is only slightly up on a week ago - 10,215. Perhaps you are confusing tests and people tested in last week's figures?
    The 8,000 is more like 10 days ago I think. But no I am not making a mistake. Previously, they couldn't test loads of people multiple times as they didn't have capacity.
    Actually, the figures from 30 March were 9100 tests on about 7000 individuals:
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-31/u-k-s-johnson-under-pressure-on-tests-as-coronavirus-spreads
    Ok so 9,000 tests to 16,000 tests. But as you see only 7,000 individuals that day, basically most people got just 1 test. Now its most people getting 2.

    I don't know, but I would suggest what was having to happen, due to lack of capacity was somebody admitted, 1 test done, another test done the next day, compare results of both tests.

    Now I presume they are simply doing 2 tests on people.
    I give up.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 48,926

    I've heard so much about someone else becoming the 'host' on Zoom and invasive viruses this week that I'm now watching Aliens.

    "What do you mean THEY cut the power? How could they cut the power, man? They're viruses!"
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,697
    edited April 2020

    If the media are going to go all Nazi on travel. Why do the media still feel the need to go to places like College Green to do an OB. HoC isn't sitting, no f##ker is there for you to talk to (and you shouldn't be anyway face to face).

    The reporters camped outside St Thomas's who are making a nuisance of themselves for no reason whatsoever are doing my head in...

    Why don't the police tell them to do one?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,038

    I've heard so much about someone else becoming the 'host' on Zoom and invasive viruses this week that I'm now watching Aliens.

    I wonder what pandemic-related terms will enter the lexicon after this.
    Game Over, man. Game over!
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited April 2020
    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    glw said:

    stodge said:

    Nigelb said:

    It’s not a choice between sav8ng lives and saving the economy...

    https://www.technologyreview.com/2020/04/08/998785/stop-covid-or-save-the-economy-we-can-do-both/

    Once again, human ingenuity comes to the rescue. Mass testing is probably a big step forward but how would we do it - I live in a cul-de-sac of 32 houses so let's say 100-150 people live in my street? Testing everyone is feasible but assumes everyone would be there to be tested.

    How long would it take and how quickly would the results be available?

    It's a grand idea but the practicalities and logistics worry me.
    I agree mass testing is the key, but the logistics are going to be a far bigger problem than buying and manufacturing the machines. You would need an army of people to carry out 20 million tests a day, transport swabs, do all the "paperwork", and process results. The bottlenecks in the process will be a real headache.
    Meanwhile we're still on about 10,000 a day, and the Chief Scientific Adviser is taking comfort from the low numbers of positive tests. :-(
    16,000+ tests on today's figures. Basically doubled it in a week. Much closer to the 25,000 a day they talked about for the start of April, but still a very long way to get anywhere near 100,000 tests a day they now set as the line in the sand.
    You're looking at the wrong column, I think. 10,713 people tested in today's figures.
    No, I said 16,000 TESTS. The benchmarks have always been against the capacity of number of TESTS they could do, as there are a whole load of reasons why they might need to test some people more than once, which aren't in your control.

    As far as I understand, the new benchmark isn't 100,000 people a day, it is TESTS.
    Well, you're making some kind of mistake, because the number of people tested today - 10,713 - is only slightly up on a week ago - 10,215. Perhaps you are confusing tests and people tested in last week's figures?
    The 8,000 is more like 10 days ago I think. But no I am not making a mistake. Previously, they couldn't test loads of people multiple times as they didn't have capacity.
    Actually, the figures from 30 March were 9100 tests on about 7000 individuals:
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-31/u-k-s-johnson-under-pressure-on-tests-as-coronavirus-spreads
    Ok so 9,000 tests to 16,000 tests. But as you see only 7,000 individuals that day, basically most people got just 1 test. Now its most people getting 2.

    I don't know, but I would suggest what was having to happen, due to lack of capacity was somebody admitted, 1 test done, another test done the next day, compare results of both tests.

    Now I presume they are simply doing 2 tests on people.
    I give up.
    I fail to see your issue.

    The lack of capacity meant they could only do one test per day per patient. This was really bad, due to issues of false negatives. They need to do multiple tests to confirm somebody has it, and the longer they don't know, the more PPE they use up on potentially on somebody who doesn't have it.

    Now they can do two a day on people, which is basically the minimum required to establish things.

    If your issue is why aren't they doing 20,000 people a day, well that isn't the government policy. Their policy is hospital admissions first and foremost. I have said from the start, I thought that wasn't a good idea.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 48,926

    I've heard so much about someone else becoming the 'host' on Zoom and invasive viruses this week that I'm now watching Aliens.

    I wonder what pandemic-related terms will enter the lexicon after this.
    Game Over, man. Game over!
    "Well, that's great. That's just fuckin' great, man! Now what the fuck are we supposed to do? We're in some real pretty shit now, man!"
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 8,480
    edited April 2020
    Nigelb said:

    There was never any doubt that he is a decent guy. The doubt is whether he can beat Trump and save the Republic.
    And he would obviously have a better chance than Biden, who has the baggage of the corruption scandal involving his son, is an accused rapist with a long history of being photographed and filmed touching women and young girls inappropriately, and senile to the point of frequently being unable to string a coherent sentence together.

    The truth is the Democratic establishment would prefer President Trump over President Sanders. Would you?
    Latest poll shows Biden with a 10% lead over Trump.

    And Biden’s win over Sanders is thanks to the voters not the Democratic establishment.
    Obvious or not, those are the results.
    Much as I'd like to agree with that, it's difficult to. Until Jim Clyburn, with his vast campaign donations from pharmaceutical companies, endorsed Biden - and who was, also, and it has to be his said, his personal friend - the traffic was all one way towards Sanders.

    Sanders then made the critical mistake of persisting with the socialist rather than Rooseveltian label, too, but it's all water under the bridge now.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited April 2020
    GIN1138 said:

    If the media are going to go all Nazi on travel. Why do the media still feel the need to go to places like College Green to do an OB. HoC isn't sitting, no f##ker is there for you to talk to (and you shouldn't be anyway face to face).

    The reporters camped outside St Thomas's who are making a nuisance of themselves for no reason whatsoever are doing my head in...

    Why don't the police tell them to do one?
    The Currant Bun had a chopper up for one day filming the roof of the hospital.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    There was never any doubt that he is a decent guy. The doubt is whether he can beat Trump and save the Republic.
    And he would obviously have a better chance than Biden, who has the baggage of the corruption scandal involving his son, is an accused rapist with a long history of being photographed and filmed touching women and young girls inappropriately, and senile to the point of frequently being unable to string a coherent sentence together.

    The truth is the Democratic establishment would prefer President Trump over President Sanders. Would you?
    Sanders failed to beat Clinton (who it turns out is an appalling campaigner) and in a second outing he got less votes than his first failed attempt.

    His amazing election winning prowess doesn't seem to work with Dem voters, why would it work with Swing voters?
  • TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052
    Italy to begin easing the lockdown in a couple of weeks.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 8,480
    edited April 2020
    Alistair said:

    There was never any doubt that he is a decent guy. The doubt is whether he can beat Trump and save the Republic.
    And he would obviously have a better chance than Biden, who has the baggage of the corruption scandal involving his son, is an accused rapist with a long history of being photographed and filmed touching women and young girls inappropriately, and senile to the point of frequently being unable to string a coherent sentence together.

    The truth is the Democratic establishment would prefer President Trump over President Sanders. Would you?
    Sanders failed to beat Clinton (who it turns out is an appalling campaigner) and in a second outing he got less votes than his first failed attempt.

    His amazing election winning prowess doesn't seem to work with Dem voters, why would it work with Swing voters?
    To be fair, it was working fairly well till Carolina. His capacity to reach beyond that Democratic base wasn't looking as guaranteed as that, though.
  • TGOHF666 said:
    Non story.

    Indeed counter productive.

    I assume it is wrong for my son to travel to the chemists, pick up our medication, and leave it with us while we stay behind our porch door

    Poor journalism and they owe him an apology
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited April 2020
    HYUFD said:

    twitter.com/RichardA/status/1248295991205298176?s=20
    twitter.com/RichardA/status/1248301727473942534?s=20

    Those people are never 2m apart....and new research is showing that that is bare minimum you need to be. Its just bloody daft. Do it by video conference.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    TGOHF666 said:
    Unless the Guardian can proved he has lied, it is not only a non-story they should never have run, it potentially undermines the government message and muddies the water. That risks lives.

    For the record, I thought the OTT response to Kinnock birthday "gathering" was totally unnecessary.
  • TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052
    Schools back in Denmark next week.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,961
    edited April 2020
    TGOHF666 said:
    I would just love for a Guardian journo to be snapped doing a bit of non-essential shopping with, oh I don't know, a drug dealer.....
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,124
    isam said:

    felix said:

    Omnium said:

    Sandpit said:

    Omnium said:

    malcolmg said:

    Omnium said:

    Genuinely not sure how I feel about this. MPs getting an additional 10K each for their offices to be transferred to home working. Seems wrong to me when no one else is being helped in this way.

    https://mcusercontent.com/5c1bd78521a0f65af80876eca/files/cfb4143a-6a9b-4439-9fdf-94b2626318bc/IPSA_Coronavirus_Guidance_version_19_03_2020.pdf

    I'm all for it. We need to accumulate evidence for the hangings.

    Some MPs are really quite poor financially. (Many more very poor generally).

    If there is a demonstrable need for that funding then that's fine. A very slight increase in the rope budget might also be wise.
    There will be very very few, those outside the safe seats for life , that do not retire millionaires.
    Evening Malcolm.

    Quite true, but then being a millionaire as a pensioner these days is meaningless. My brother, who works for the state in an average sort of a job, has a pension that is worth a million or so.

    The 'millionaire' tag really has to move on to be around the 10 million mark.

    Actually the SNP MPs have slightly higher costs in their long commute. Cheaper home costs though too. (The croft being cheaper than a house obviously!)
    No. It's almost impossible for 95% of private sector workers to retire with such massive millionaire pensions. It's become a huge disconnect between public and private sector since Brown's reforms in 1998.
    What do you think a millionaire pension looks like?

    It's about 30k per year. Senior nurses, tube drivers, headmasters. They all get that.
    Wrong - headteachers will typically be on 40/50k+
    Blimey! I know of a headteacher, in an academy, on over twice that
    I mean the pension! Very few heads are on 200k salary.
  • TGOHF666 said:

    Schools back in Denmark next week.

    And the WHO issued caution to Europe on easing too soon

    I really hope this does not result in a second wave in Denmark
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited April 2020
    A rail union boss has sparked outrage after saying he would 'throw a party' if stricken Boris Johnson died of coronavirus. Steve Hedley, the assistant chief of the Rail, Martime and Transport Workers union hit back at friends who criticised him, telling them: 'I hope the whole cabinet of Tory b*st*rds get it too.'

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8205057/RMT-chief-assistant-says-hopes-Tory-party-gets-coronavirus.html
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,094
    Most of the BA fleet is now on the ground at UK airports.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    IanB2 said:

    Most of the BA fleet is now on the ground at UK airports.

    Most of the world's airline fleet is on the ground - the accumulations are massive.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-8204255/There-THREE-separate-types-coronavirus.html

    If this is true, that means America didn't get it from Europe, they got it from China, so must have got there way before the Orange one shut down flights from there.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,535

    A rail union boss has sparked outrage after saying he would 'throw a party' if stricken Boris Johnson died of coronavirus. Steve Hedley, the assistant chief of the Rail, Martime and Transport Workers union hit back at friends who criticised him, telling them: 'I hope the whole cabinet of Tory b*st*rds get it too.'

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8205057/RMT-chief-assistant-says-hopes-Tory-party-gets-coronavirus.html

    I expect that many commuters feel the same way about the RMT.
  • IanB2 said:

    Most of the BA fleet is now on the ground at UK airports.

    The last I heard was they are only flying 15 routes

    Looks like our flight to Vancouver on the 12th May will be cancelled and an automatic refund applied

    They are not flying Heathrow to Vancouver at present
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408

    A rail union boss has sparked outrage after saying he would 'throw a party' if stricken Boris Johnson died of coronavirus. Steve Hedley, the assistant chief of the Rail, Martime and Transport Workers union hit back at friends who criticised him, telling them: 'I hope the whole cabinet of Tory b*st*rds get it too.'

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8205057/RMT-chief-assistant-says-hopes-Tory-party-gets-coronavirus.html

    There's a lot of hate out there.
    glw said:

    16,000 dead in the US, and look at what Trump has to say.


    The Wall Street Journal always “forgets” to mention that the ratings for the White House Press Briefings are “through the roof” (Monday Night Football, Bachelor Finale, according to @nytimes) & is only way for me to escape the Fake News & get my views across. WSJ is Fake News!

    — Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) April 9, 2020


    The man would be a remarkable preson to study, were he not President.
  • isamisam Posts: 40,731
    ...

    I've heard so much about someone else becoming the 'host' on Zoom and invasive viruses this week that I'm now watching Aliens.

    I wonder what pandemic-related terms will enter the lexicon after this.
    ‘Social distancing’ a cert I’d say


  • isamisam Posts: 40,731
    felix said:

    isam said:

    felix said:

    Omnium said:

    Sandpit said:

    Omnium said:

    malcolmg said:

    Omnium said:

    Genuinely not sure how I feel about this. MPs getting an additional 10K each for their offices to be transferred to home working. Seems wrong to me when no one else is being helped in this way.

    https://mcusercontent.com/5c1bd78521a0f65af80876eca/files/cfb4143a-6a9b-4439-9fdf-94b2626318bc/IPSA_Coronavirus_Guidance_version_19_03_2020.pdf

    I'm all for it. We need to accumulate evidence for the hangings.

    Some MPs are really quite poor financially. (Many more very poor generally).

    If there is a demonstrable need for that funding then that's fine. A very slight increase in the rope budget might also be wise.
    There will be very very few, those outside the safe seats for life , that do not retire millionaires.
    Evening Malcolm.

    Quite true, but then being a millionaire as a pensioner these days is meaningless. My brother, who works for the state in an average sort of a job, has a pension that is worth a million or so.

    The 'millionaire' tag really has to move on to be around the 10 million mark.

    Actually the SNP MPs have slightly higher costs in their long commute. Cheaper home costs though too. (The croft being cheaper than a house obviously!)
    No. It's almost impossible for 95% of private sector workers to retire with such massive millionaire pensions. It's become a huge disconnect between public and private sector since Brown's reforms in 1998.
    What do you think a millionaire pension looks like?

    It's about 30k per year. Senior nurses, tube drivers, headmasters. They all get that.
    Wrong - headteachers will typically be on 40/50k+
    Blimey! I know of a headteacher, in an academy, on over twice that
    I mean the pension! Very few heads are on 200k salary.
    Sorry I thought you meant they earnt 40-50k
  • Fysics_TeacherFysics_Teacher Posts: 6,060
    Alistair said:
    There can’t be many heads on £40k: that’s less than a normal teacher who is at the top of the upper pay scale.
  • kingbongokingbongo Posts: 393

    TGOHF666 said:

    Schools back in Denmark next week.

    And the WHO issued caution to Europe on easing too soon

    I really hope this does not result in a second wave in Denmark
    Schools are NOT back in Denmark next week - from the 15th daycare (vuggestue and børnehave) And classes for primary school will start to slowly reopen under very stringent regulations - my daughter’s classes won’t start until the 20th - there is massive scepticism here about this - the Facebook group “my kid isn’t a lab bunny for experiments” got 14000 members in a few hours - and the government for the first time are facing criticism from opposition parties for acting too hastily. Denmark has been on a softer lockdown than the UK but for 12 days longer.
  • TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052

    I've heard so much about someone else becoming the 'host' on Zoom and invasive viruses this week that I'm now watching Aliens.

    I wonder what pandemic-related terms will enter the lexicon after this.
    “Lockdown violation snitcher “
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 48,926
    isam said:

    ...

    I've heard so much about someone else becoming the 'host' on Zoom and invasive viruses this week that I'm now watching Aliens.

    I wonder what pandemic-related terms will enter the lexicon after this.
    ‘Social distancing’ a cert I’d say


    Lockdown.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,535
    kle4 said:

    The man would be a remarkable preson to study, were he not President.

    The degree of narcissism Trump exhibits to complain that journalists aren't mentioning his ratings when they write about the daily briefing about a pandemic is simply extraordinary.
  • isamisam Posts: 40,731
    RIP, but there is no way the person second from left is a ‘fit and healthy’ 33 year old. He is about 3-4 stone overweight


  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited April 2020
    So I have a question....

    Italy had total and utter meltdown in the North. So far London and West Midlands have been very hard hit, but the NHS is coping. The Italian population is on average much older and we know a lot of oldies got it before Italy even knew it was widespread.

    Here, we had more warning, have got nowhere near Italy style total system crash, but we are basically running at the same level of deaths. Why?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 48,926
    edited April 2020

    IanB2 said:

    Most of the BA fleet is now on the ground at UK airports.

    The last I heard was they are only flying 15 routes

    Looks like our flight to Vancouver on the 12th May will be cancelled and an automatic refund applied

    They are not flying Heathrow to Vancouver at present
    Flight from Sofia about to land at Heathrow, according to FlightRadar24.

    Hannover flight not far behind that one.
  • kingbongo said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    Schools back in Denmark next week.

    And the WHO issued caution to Europe on easing too soon

    I really hope this does not result in a second wave in Denmark
    Schools are NOT back in Denmark next week - from the 15th daycare (vuggestue and børnehave) And classes for primary school will start to slowly reopen under very stringent regulations - my daughter’s classes won’t start until the 20th - there is massive scepticism here about this - the Facebook group “my kid isn’t a lab bunny for experiments” got 14000 members in a few hours - and the government for the first time are facing criticism from opposition parties for acting too hastily. Denmark has been on a softer lockdown than the UK but for 12 days longer.
    Good to get a previous post corrected

    Thank you

  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 8,480
    edited April 2020
    Terrible story, which emphasises Maitlis's point about not everyone bearing the brunt.

    That doesn't mean it's not an important collective experience which can be an opportunity and launchpad for something else, though - she's missed that distinction.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    Google says 4m, and I never argue with Google.
This discussion has been closed.