Suspect those London parks will be very empty tomorrow.
Raab was certainly suggesting the current restrictions are going to stay in place after the original April 15th deadline but gave little clue as to when and how they might be eased.
Is the Austrian "route map to normality" the way for the UK? I find it hard to see social distancing surviving when more shops are open and it's interesting to see barbershops mentioned specifically for re-opening on May 1st.
This is perhaps the most difficult public policy decision the Government will have to face - the line between the economic imperative of trying to get things moving again has to be set against the public health imperative of risking a new wave of cases triggering a renewed lock down which could prolong and exacerbate the economic damage.
Actually barber shops sound logical to me
Timed slots - maybe 2 barbers and 2 customers at once, socially distanced. Barbers in masks (and possibly customers as well).
Haircuts providing illusion of normality vs hair growing long and unkempt
Depends if they can be run economically like that otherwise they won’t open at all
Skinheads/Suedeheads, that don’t require a trip to the barbers, will be the look in my opinion
Not happening, at least in my case, unless I get very desperate.
If my hair ends up too short then all the lumps and bumps on my scalp that it hides might be made visible. I'd end up looking like Shrek.
Suspect those London parks will be very empty tomorrow.
Raab was certainly suggesting the current restrictions are going to stay in place after the original April 15th deadline but gave little clue as to when and how they might be eased.
Is the Austrian "route map to normality" the way for the UK? I find it hard to see social distancing surviving when more shops are open and it's interesting to see barbershops mentioned specifically for re-opening on May 1st.
This is perhaps the most difficult public policy decision the Government will have to face - the line between the economic imperative of trying to get things moving again has to be set against the public health imperative of risking a new wave of cases triggering a renewed lock down which could prolong and exacerbate the economic damage.
Actually barber shops sound logical to me
Timed slots - maybe 2 barbers and 2 customers at once, socially distanced. Barbers in masks (and possibly customers as well).
Haircuts providing illusion of normality vs hair growing long and unkempt
Depends if they can be run economically like that otherwise they won’t open at all
Skinheads/Suedeheads, that don’t require a trip to the barbers, will be the look in my opinion
Not happening, at least in my case, unless I get very desperate.
If my hair ends up too short then all the lumps and bumps on my scalp that it hides might be made visible. I'd end up looking like Shrek.
Only not green.
I got all my hair cut off a few days before the barbers closed. I'm good for several months now.
A question - is being put on a ventilator always a last resort, or is it something that can potentially help somebody who doesn't technically require one?
CPAP machine is the step between oxygen mask and ventilator, that seems to be what they use before going the full hog...as putting somebody on a ventilator is a big step, very traumatic for the body.
Indeed. I seem to recall data being released from Italy to the effect that use of CPAP machines reduced demand for ventilation by half. They are much simpler and faster to manufacture, non-invasive, and (unless PBers of a medical bent would wish to contradict) presumably much easier for very hard pressed hospital staff to set up.
Yes, CPAP does have its advocates. It does aerosolize the secretions, which is rather a cross infection risk and can rather overload the hospital oxygen capacity.
Suspect those London parks will be very empty tomorrow.
Raab was certainly suggesting the current restrictions are going to stay in place after the original April 15th deadline but gave little clue as to when and how they might be eased.
Is the Austrian "route map to normality" the way for the UK? I find it hard to see social distancing surviving when more shops are open and it's interesting to see barbershops mentioned specifically for re-opening on May 1st.
This is perhaps the most difficult public policy decision the Government will have to face - the line between the economic imperative of trying to get things moving again has to be set against the public health imperative of risking a new wave of cases triggering a renewed lock down which could prolong and exacerbate the economic damage.
Actually barber shops sound logical to me
Timed slots - maybe 2 barbers and 2 customers at once, socially distanced. Barbers in masks (and possibly customers as well).
Haircuts providing illusion of normality vs hair growing long and unkempt
Depends if they can be run economically like that otherwise they won’t open at all
Skinheads/Suedeheads, that don’t require a trip to the barbers, will be the look in my opinion
Not happening, at least in my case, unless I get very desperate.
If my hair ends up too short then all the lumps and bumps on my scalp that it hides might be made visible. I'd end up looking like Shrek.
Only not green.
I don’t really fancy that look either. It looks like I’m going to grow it long like a mid life crisis man, or let my girlfriend do it...
Suspect those London parks will be very empty tomorrow.
Raab was certainly suggesting the current restrictions are going to stay in place after the original April 15th deadline but gave little clue as to when and how they might be eased.
Is the Austrian "route map to normality" the way for the UK? I find it hard to see social distancing surviving when more shops are open and it's interesting to see barbershops mentioned specifically for re-opening on May 1st.
This is perhaps the most difficult public policy decision the Government will have to face - the line between the economic imperative of trying to get things moving again has to be set against the public health imperative of risking a new wave of cases triggering a renewed lock down which could prolong and exacerbate the economic damage.
Actually barber shops sound logical to me
Timed slots - maybe 2 barbers and 2 customers at once, socially distanced. Barbers in masks (and possibly customers as well).
Haircuts providing illusion of normality vs hair growing long and unkempt
Depends if they can be run economically like that otherwise they won’t open at all
Skinheads/Suedeheads, that don’t require a trip to the barbers, will be the look in my opinion
Not happening, at least in my case, unless I get very desperate.
If my hair ends up too short then all the lumps and bumps on my scalp that it hides might be made visible. I'd end up looking like Shrek.
Only not green.
I got all my hair cut off a few days before the barbers closed. I'm good for several months now.
Slightly untidy but still some distance from the bouffant stage here. Recently took delivery of some pretty severe looking hair clippers with which to attack myself if shearing should become necessary. Keeping fingers crossed that it doesn't come to this...
A question - is being put on a ventilator always a last resort, or is it something that can potentially help somebody who doesn't technically require one?
CPAP machine is the step between oxygen mask and ventilator, that seems to be what they use before going the full hog...as putting somebody on a ventilator is a big step, very traumatic for the body.
Indeed. I seem to recall data being released from Italy to the effect that use of CPAP machines reduced demand for ventilation by half. They are much simpler and faster to manufacture, non-invasive, and (unless PBers of a medical bent would wish to contradict) presumably much easier for very hard pressed hospital staff to set up.
Yes, CPAP does have its advocates. It does aerosolize the secretions, which is rather a cross infection risk and can rather overload the hospital oxygen capacity.
Is this the same CPAP machine you get for sleep apnea?
It comes to something when Richard Burgon is more tasteful than some of the media this evening
Let's do a thought experiment. Let's imagine it wasn't the lovable buffoon from HIGNFY who is in peril, but instead, let's say, one Jeremy Corbin.
How tasteful would the comments on Pb.com, other social media or the established media be?
As the setter of the thought experiment perhaps you'd indicate how tasteful you'd believe them to be?
Some hate Boris, some hate Corbyn, but it's hard to predict how many online would be hateful arseholes in a situation regarding either man's health.
But without drifting into too much sanctimony, I don't think the number would be all that high regardless. Politics is politics. It can and should be extremely important at times, and that will engender the kinds of fervour that will for some bleed over into extreme reactions including of the most distasteful kind. But most people have no problem putting down the politics in such moments.
In this at least, the majority of our MPs do indeed show the way as leaders better even than their supporters, because they nearly all know when to dial it back. They don't think they will weaken their future opposition to whichever side they oppose by showing humanity to them.
When Boris has recovered, and when the country has got through Corona, not the neatest and highest survival rate, but ok, relatively sensibly, far from the worst, it is going to be Boris on the balcony at Buck House times. The man is going to be a legend, love him or loathe him.
And if, God forbid, he doesn't recover, our last memories of Boris will be of him getting off his sick bed to clap for the NHS in Downing Street.
Suspect those London parks will be very empty tomorrow.
Raab was certainly suggesting the current restrictions are going to stay in place after the original April 15th deadline but gave little clue as to when and how they might be eased.
Is the Austrian "route map to normality" the way for the UK? I find it hard to see social distancing surviving when more shops are open and it's interesting to see barbershops mentioned specifically for re-opening on May 1st.
This is perhaps the most difficult public policy decision the Government will have to face - the line between the economic imperative of trying to get things moving again has to be set against the public health imperative of risking a new wave of cases triggering a renewed lock down which could prolong and exacerbate the economic damage.
Actually barber shops sound logical to me
Timed slots - maybe 2 barbers and 2 customers at once, socially distanced. Barbers in masks (and possibly customers as well).
Haircuts providing illusion of normality vs hair growing long and unkempt
Depends if they can be run economically like that otherwise they won’t open at all
Skinheads/Suedeheads, that don’t require a trip to the barbers, will be the look in my opinion
Not happening, at least in my case, unless I get very desperate.
If my hair ends up too short then all the lumps and bumps on my scalp that it hides might be made visible. I'd end up looking like Shrek.
Only not green.
I don’t really fancy that look either. It looks like I’m going to grow it long like a mid life crisis man, or let my girlfriend do it...
If you can tolerate letting it go then so be it. I can't, at least not past a certain stage. I find overgrown hair immensely irritating, notably the fact that it takes forever to dry and I don't have the time to muck about with that in the mornings.
I would get my husband to try to cut it for me but, alas, tidiness is not his strong suit.
It would be less risky to entrust my barnet to the tender mercies of an arthritic octogenarian with advanced cataracts. But they're all self-isolating, of course.
A question - is being put on a ventilator always a last resort, or is it something that can potentially help somebody who doesn't technically require one?
CPAP machine is the step between oxygen mask and ventilator, that seems to be what they use before going the full hog...as putting somebody on a ventilator is a big step, very traumatic for the body.
Indeed. I seem to recall data being released from Italy to the effect that use of CPAP machines reduced demand for ventilation by half. They are much simpler and faster to manufacture, non-invasive, and (unless PBers of a medical bent would wish to contradict) presumably much easier for very hard pressed hospital staff to set up.
Yes, CPAP does have its advocates. It does aerosolize the secretions, which is rather a cross infection risk and can rather overload the hospital oxygen capacity.
Is this the same CPAP machine you get for sleep apnea?
Pretty much. The OSA ones are for home usage. OSA is a bad risk factor for COVID19 though.
Can't think of many governments which have been entirely truthful about the health of PMs or Presidents. Transparency isn't always workable, or desirable.
In Sickness and In Power - David Owen, and When Illness Strikes the Leader - Jerrold M. Post, Robert S. Robins, cover the politics of indisposed leaders.
Suspect those London parks will be very empty tomorrow.
Raab was certainly suggesting the current restrictions are going to stay in place after the original April 15th deadline but gave little clue as to when and how they might be eased.
Is the Austrian "route map to normality" the way for the UK? I find it hard to see social distancing surviving when more shops are open and it's interesting to see barbershops mentioned specifically for re-opening on May 1st.
This is perhaps the most difficult public policy decision the Government will have to face - the line between the economic imperative of trying to get things moving again has to be set against the public health imperative of risking a new wave of cases triggering a renewed lock down which could prolong and exacerbate the economic damage.
Actually barber shops sound logical to me
Timed slots - maybe 2 barbers and 2 customers at once, socially distanced. Barbers in masks (and possibly customers as well).
Haircuts providing illusion of normality vs hair growing long and unkempt
Depends if they can be run economically like that otherwise they won’t open at all
Skinheads/Suedeheads, that don’t require a trip to the barbers, will be the look in my opinion
Not happening, at least in my case, unless I get very desperate.
If my hair ends up too short then all the lumps and bumps on my scalp that it hides might be made visible. I'd end up looking like Shrek.
Only not green.
I don’t really fancy that look either. It looks like I’m going to grow it long like a mid life crisis man, or let my girlfriend do it...
If you can tolerate letting it go then so be it. I can't, at least not past a certain stage. I find overgrown hair immensely irritating, notably the fact that it takes forever to dry and I don't have the time to muck about with that in the mornings.
I would get my husband to try to cut it for me but, alas, tidiness is not his strong suit.
It would be less risky to entrust my barnet to the tender mercies of an arthritic octogenarian with advanced cataracts. But they're all self-isolating, of course.
Www.skullshaver.eu is the place to go. 90 seconds, job done...
Can't think of many governments which have been entirely truthful about the health of PMs or Presidents. Transparency isn't always workable, or desirable.
In Sickness and In Power - David Owen, and When Illness Strikes the Leader - Jerrold M. Post, Robert S. Robins, cover the politics of indisposed leaders.
We all know these things are "managed" if possible e.g. we know when Liz dies, there are a set protocols and it isn't exactly 100% honest.
Its not like the government have hidden he has CV and tried to claim for the past 10 days he is just a bit busy to do the press conferences.
Suspect those London parks will be very empty tomorrow.
Raab was certainly suggesting the current restrictions are going to stay in place after the original April 15th deadline but gave little clue as to when and how they might be eased.
Is the Austrian "route map to normality" the way for the UK? I find it hard to see social distancing surviving when more shops are open and it's interesting to see barbershops mentioned specifically for re-opening on May 1st.
This is perhaps the most difficult public policy decision the Government will have to face - the line between the economic imperative of trying to get things moving again has to be set against the public health imperative of risking a new wave of cases triggering a renewed lock down which could prolong and exacerbate the economic damage.
Actually barber shops sound logical to me
Timed slots - maybe 2 barbers and 2 customers at once, socially distanced. Barbers in masks (and possibly customers as well).
Haircuts providing illusion of normality vs hair growing long and unkempt
Depends if they can be run economically like that otherwise they won’t open at all
Skinheads/Suedeheads, that don’t require a trip to the barbers, will be the look in my opinion
Not happening, at least in my case, unless I get very desperate.
If my hair ends up too short then all the lumps and bumps on my scalp that it hides might be made visible. I'd end up looking like Shrek.
Only not green.
I don’t really fancy that look either. It looks like I’m going to grow it long like a mid life crisis man, or let my girlfriend do it...
If you can tolerate letting it go then so be it. I can't, at least not past a certain stage. I find overgrown hair immensely irritating, notably the fact that it takes forever to dry and I don't have the time to muck about with that in the mornings.
I would get my husband to try to cut it for me but, alas, tidiness is not his strong suit.
It would be less risky to entrust my barnet to the tender mercies of an arthritic octogenarian with advanced cataracts. But they're all self-isolating, of course.
Www.skullshaver.eu is the place to go. 90 seconds, job done...
Oh good God no - see my earlier remarks re: Shrek...
When Boris has recovered, and when the country has got through Corona, not the neatest and highest survival rate, but ok, relatively sensibly, far from the worst, it is going to be Boris on the balcony at Buck House times. The man is going to be a legend, love him or loathe him.
And if, God forbid, he doesn't recover, our last memories of Boris will be of him getting off his sick bed to clap for the NHS in Downing Street.
A question - is being put on a ventilator always a last resort, or is it something that can potentially help somebody who doesn't technically require one?
CPAP machine is the step between oxygen mask and ventilator, that seems to be what they use before going the full hog...as putting somebody on a ventilator is a big step, very traumatic for the body.
Indeed. I seem to recall data being released from Italy to the effect that use of CPAP machines reduced demand for ventilation by half. They are much simpler and faster to manufacture, non-invasive, and (unless PBers of a medical bent would wish to contradict) presumably much easier for very hard pressed hospital staff to set up.
Yes, CPAP does have its advocates. It does aerosolize the secretions, which is rather a cross infection risk and can rather overload the hospital oxygen capacity.
Is this the same CPAP machine you get for sleep apnea?
Pretty much. The OSA ones are for home usage. OSA is a bad risk factor for COVID19 though.
I am continually surprised how many people I know who have sleep apnea. The two topics of conversation appear to be how to keep the kit clean, and who has the best cpap machine and face kit. Apparently daily cleaning is essential and a royal pain.
Can't think of many governments which have been entirely truthful about the health of PMs or Presidents. Transparency isn't always workable, or desirable.
In Sickness and In Power - David Owen, and When Illness Strikes the Leader - Jerrold M. Post, Robert S. Robins, cover the politics of indisposed leaders.
We all know these things are "managed" if possible e.g. we know when Liz dies, there are a set protocols and it isn't exactly 100% honest.
Its not like the government have hidden he has CV and tried to claim for the past 10 days he is just a bit busy to do the press conferences.
A lot of this “why weren’t we told sooner?” is the press echo chamber desperately wanting an update more than anything else.
Never try and understand what Trump is saying. That is the first step to turning into a stupid, racist Jaffa orange. 999/1000 much prefer turning into a centipede, studies show.
I have to say I've been off work since Thursday and working from home. I had a bit of a temperature on Wednesday so it was a precaution. I do feel like I have a bit of a wheezy chest - nothing much - just this sense of something that won't quite go away. Have I got coronavirus? No idea. My only thought is whether it might get any worse.
There's something unnerving about a bug that won't go away.
It comes to something when Richard Burgon is more tasteful than some of the media this evening
Let's do a thought experiment. Let's imagine it wasn't the lovable buffoon from HIGNFY who is in peril, but instead, let's say, one Jeremy Corbin.
How tasteful would the comments on Pb.com, other social media or the established media be?
I would very much hope they would be the same.
Of course they would. I detest Corbyn’s politics and find him a querulous old narcissist as a person. And a fool.
But if he got this? He’s a father and a husband. He’s not evil, just silly.
I would wish him well, fervently, especially if he was the prime minster and the nation needed stability in a time of crisis.
Indeed and looking back at the tragic passing of John Smith I do believe people were respectful regardless of partisan politics. Hopefully he can recover but party politics doesn't matter right now.
They'll have to fix it up or it'll eventually burn down. Or fall into the Thames.
The costs of said project could be reduced considerably by a full decant *AND* remote working. One of the major consequences of Covid is likely to be that an awful lot of people who previously commuted into London will find themselves working all or most of the time from home offices. I'm sure it's not beyond the wit of man for Parliamentarians to do likewise whilst the Palace of Westminster is given the necessary overhaul.
Can't think of many governments which have been entirely truthful about the health of PMs or Presidents. Transparency isn't always workable, or desirable.
In Sickness and In Power - David Owen, and When Illness Strikes the Leader - Jerrold M. Post, Robert S. Robins, cover the politics of indisposed leaders.
We all know these things are "managed" if possible e.g. we know when Liz dies, there are a set protocols and it isn't exactly 100% honest.
Its not like the government have hidden he has CV and tried to claim for the past 10 days he is just a bit busy to do the press conferences.
But have they hidden something else, an underlying condition? There was that two week period where his opponent’s jibbed about him gone missing.
Blairs team weren’t forth coming about his problems till Liz slipped it out (how was that covered in memoirs, did they think she did it by accident or design) I don’t think it is possible to hide much these days, certainly not in U.K.
The most famous one probably the Irish Premier standing on runway wondering why Yeltsin not getting off the plane.
It comes to something when Richard Burgon is more tasteful than some of the media this evening
Let's do a thought experiment. Let's imagine it wasn't the lovable buffoon from HIGNFY who is in peril, but instead, let's say, one Jeremy Corbin.
How tasteful would the comments on Pb.com, other social media or the established media be?
On PB? Probably the same.
I would hope the same. All life is precious
I would hope so, too. And I strongly agree that life is the most precious thing humankind has.
But I vividly remember when a fortnight ago news broke that our head honcho had to retreat into quarantine because she had been treated by a doctor who was later tested positive. Less perilous by at least an order of magnitude, compared to the PM's situation for sure, but still, I noticed about a dozen responses on here to that news report, every single one of them more or less full of vitriol, not a single conciliatory one.
I remember asking myself at that time, 'what if it had been Jeremy Corbyn' and whether the reactions would have been more of the desirable kind. And I remember myself being unsure of the answer to that question.
A question - is being put on a ventilator always a last resort, or is it something that can potentially help somebody who doesn't technically require one?
CPAP machine is the step between oxygen mask and ventilator, that seems to be what they use before going the full hog...as putting somebody on a ventilator is a big step, very traumatic for the body.
Indeed. I seem to recall data being released from Italy to the effect that use of CPAP machines reduced demand for ventilation by half. They are much simpler and faster to manufacture, non-invasive, and (unless PBers of a medical bent would wish to contradict) presumably much easier for very hard pressed hospital staff to set up.
Yes, CPAP does have its advocates. It does aerosolize the secretions, which is rather a cross infection risk and can rather overload the hospital oxygen capacity.
Is this the same CPAP machine you get for sleep apnea?
Pretty much. The OSA ones are for home usage. OSA is a bad risk factor for COVID19 though.
I am continually surprised how many people I know who have sleep apnea. The two topics of conversation appear to be how to keep the kit clean, and who has the best cpap machine and face kit. Apparently daily cleaning is essential and a royal pain.
Yes, we have 10 000 diagnosed in Leicestershire out of a million population, and there are loads out there undiagnosed.
Without knowing how hard he was working andhow I'm not sure what conclusions could be drawn from it.
Two weeks ago the press were working themselves into an outrage that he was even allowed to take a test.
And before that, they worked themselves into a frenzy over if he actually worked hard enough and why wasn't he at every COBR meeting since January....now he worked too hard and its his fault he is in ICU.
Without knowing how hard he was working andhow I'm not sure what conclusions could be drawn from it.
It is ironic that if that is the case then people like me will have to eat our words about him being fundamentally lazy. I do feel I have misjudged his character somewhat if the evidence of the past month or more is anything to go by.
A question - is being put on a ventilator always a last resort, or is it something that can potentially help somebody who doesn't technically require one?
It’s very hard on the body so they don’t like doing it
A question - is being put on a ventilator always a last resort, or is it something that can potentially help somebody who doesn't technically require one?
CPAP machine is the step between oxygen mask and ventilator, that seems to be what they use before going the full hog...as putting somebody on a ventilator is a big step, very traumatic for the body.
Indeed. I seem to recall data being released from Italy to the effect that use of CPAP machines reduced demand for ventilation by half. They are much simpler and faster to manufacture, non-invasive, and (unless PBers of a medical bent would wish to contradict) presumably much easier for very hard pressed hospital staff to set up.
Yes, CPAP does have its advocates. It does aerosolize the secretions, which is rather a cross infection risk and can rather overload the hospital oxygen capacity.
Is this the same CPAP machine you get for sleep apnea?
Pretty much. The OSA ones are for home usage. OSA is a bad risk factor for COVID19 though.
I am continually surprised how many people I know who have sleep apnea. The two topics of conversation appear to be how to keep the kit clean, and who has the best cpap machine and face kit. Apparently daily cleaning is essential and a royal pain.
Yes, we have 10 000 diagnosed in Leicestershire out of a million population, and there are loads out there undiagnosed.
Even amazon sells the machines and supplies and they still have delivery within a week.
It comes to something when Richard Burgon is more tasteful than some of the media this evening
Let's do a thought experiment. Let's imagine it wasn't the lovable buffoon from HIGNFY who is in peril, but instead, let's say, one Jeremy Corbin.
How tasteful would the comments on Pb.com, other social media or the established media be?
On PB? Probably the same.
I would hope the same. All life is precious
I would hope so, too. And I strongly agree that life is the most precious thing humankind has.
But I vividly remember when a fortnight ago news broke that our head honcho had to retreat into quarantine because she had been treated by a doctor who was later tested positive. Less perilous by at least an order of magnitude, compared to the PM's situation for sure, but still, I noticed about a dozen responses on here to that news report, every single one of them more or less full of vitriol, not a single conciliatory one.
I remember asking myself at that time, 'what if it had been Jeremy Corbyn' and whether the reactions would have been more of the desirable kind. And I remember myself being unsure of the answer to that question.
I'm sorry to hear that - I must have missed that thread. You're extremely welcome here, and most of us would sympathise with Mrs Markel or anyone under threat.
It comes to something when Richard Burgon is more tasteful than some of the media this evening
Let's do a thought experiment. Let's imagine it wasn't the lovable buffoon from HIGNFY who is in peril, but instead, let's say, one Jeremy Corbin.
How tasteful would the comments on Pb.com, other social media or the established media be?
I would very much hope they would be the same.
Of course they would. I detest Corbyn’s politics and find him a querulous old narcissist as a person. And a fool.
But if he got this? He’s a father and a husband. He’s not evil, just silly.
I would wish him well, fervently, especially if he was the prime minster and the nation needed stability in a time of crisis.
Indeed and looking back at the tragic passing of John Smith I do believe people were respectful regardless of partisan politics. Hopefully he can recover but party politics doesn't matter right now.
I have never understood the belief that John Smith wouldn't have won the election - maybe not Tony Blairs massive landslide, but he would have got a solid majority for sure.
There was some wasn’t there? In the bigger picture you don’t want General Melchett in the trenches or going over the top. The equivalents in this war are handshakes, testing, quarantine, leaders all over the planet just been getting on with it eschewing those things.
Personally I think this whole thing has just come in on the blind side. It’s only this week the penny has dropped those on the ventilators are in their 50s and less. It’s still not properly sunk in this lockdown is just flattening the sombrero not going to kill it, no switch on for economy in June or July. The only way to actually kill it is going to be Hunt it more than we are doing.
And it’s important for that penny to drop, because the economy can’t be kept in coma much after June or bits of it will start permanently dying, so we we need to start hunting lot more than we doing.
There was some wasn’t there? In the bigger picture you don’t want General Melchett in the trenches or going over the top. The equivalents in this war are handshakes, testing, quarantine, leaders all over the planet just been getting on with it eschewing those things.
Personally I think this whole thing has just come in on the blind side. It’s only this week the penny has dropped those on the ventilators are in their 50s and less. It’s still not properly sunk in this lockdown is just flattening the sombrero not going to kill it, no switch on for economy in June or July. The only way to actually kill it is going to be Hunt it more than we are doing.
And it’s important for that penny to drop, because the economy can’t be kept in coma much after June or bits of it will start permanently dying, so we we need to start hunting lot more than we doing.
We are not going to kill it until a vaccine emerges, which could be years away, so in the meantime we will just have to lockdown as we near the peak, then ease off again for all but the most vulnerable and mass test, then lockdown again before the next peak
Question for @Foxy: Do you get much of a sense of which patients are likely to pull through if they need to go on a ventilator, or does recovery seem to arrive like a miracle?
Like everyone else, wishing Boris all the best. I think he may well be quite a lot fitter than a lot are saying, what with the cycling, the running and the tennis.
There may be a lot of people traumatised for months after this who have been in ITU. Lots of tolerant and silent listening may be required. The same may apply to staff, in particular helping them feel very normal again outside the work bubble imo with simple things.
I was in ITU for more than a week 2 years ago with DKA after a persistent chest infection failed to go away, and they kept me sedated for a whole week. I was apparently growing some quite exotic bugs.
I came out with the weirdest set of false memories, and they offered a post-counselling meeting a month later with a senior ITU nurse and an ologist.
One involved being treated in an environment that was internally international orange, and a sort of cross between the control room in the Prisoner series, and the rotating drum section in the spaceship in Space Odyssey 2001. Another involved bureaucratic battles and schemes to prevent family visits, again in a bizarre padded office environment. Another was that the parent who lived with me had been taken away to other family, and would not be coming back. I also made several delusional 'I'm being held in here and I need to escape' phone calls.
It's strange what a free running brain can do.
After being brought round I was quizzing the nurses about whether some of these memories were true, and for quite a few weeks I was getting my dreams about family relationships and conversations muddled between the false memories and the reality. It would have been easy to hurt people without knowing.
One appreciates the need for the medical sense of humour.
Without knowing how hard he was working andhow I'm not sure what conclusions could be drawn from it.
It is ironic that if that is the case then people like me will have to eat our words about him being fundamentally lazy. I do feel I have misjudged his character somewhat if the evidence of the past month or more is anything to go by.
Well it's quite possible previous assessments were correct but that he operates very differently in a crisis, but it would seem somewhat invidious for him to be criticised for not enough and too much work.
A question - is being put on a ventilator always a last resort, or is it something that can potentially help somebody who doesn't technically require one?
CPAP machine is the step between oxygen mask and ventilator, that seems to be what they use before going the full hog...as putting somebody on a ventilator is a big step, very traumatic for the body.
Indeed. I seem to recall data being released from Italy to the effect that use of CPAP machines reduced demand for ventilation by half. They are much simpler and faster to manufacture, non-invasive, and (unless PBers of a medical bent would wish to contradict) presumably much easier for very hard pressed hospital staff to set up.
Yes, CPAP does have its advocates. It does aerosolize the secretions, which is rather a cross infection risk and can rather overload the hospital oxygen capacity.
Is this the same CPAP machine you get for sleep apnea?
Pretty much. The OSA ones are for home usage. OSA is a bad risk factor for COVID19 though.
I am continually surprised how many people I know who have sleep apnea. The two topics of conversation appear to be how to keep the kit clean, and who has the best cpap machine and face kit. Apparently daily cleaning is essential and a royal pain.
Yes, we have 10 000 diagnosed in Leicestershire out of a million population, and there are loads out there undiagnosed.
Even amazon sells the machines and supplies and they still have delivery within a week.
I wouldn't recommend home treatment unsupervised, and thee oxygen concentration would be too low domestically, I think.
Though the guy running ICU in the Welsh Valleys seems to think CPAP a good option.
It comes to something when Richard Burgon is more tasteful than some of the media this evening
Let's do a thought experiment. Let's imagine it wasn't the lovable buffoon from HIGNFY who is in peril, but instead, let's say, one Jeremy Corbin.
How tasteful would the comments on Pb.com, other social media or the established media be?
I would very much hope they would be the same.
Of course they would. I detest Corbyn’s politics and find him a querulous old narcissist as a person. And a fool.
But if he got this? He’s a father and a husband. He’s not evil, just silly.
I would wish him well, fervently, especially if he was the prime minster and the nation needed stability in a time of crisis.
Indeed and looking back at the tragic passing of John Smith I do believe people were respectful regardless of partisan politics. Hopefully he can recover but party politics doesn't matter right now.
I have never understood the belief that John Smith wouldn't have won the election - maybe not Tony Blairs massive landslide, but he would have got a solid majority for sure.
A very interesting what-if that way.....
Not easy to say. The Conservatives lost all unity because they simply did not know how to respond to Blair, and ended up resorting to an "every man (and Teresa Gorman)" to themselves. They knew they were going to lose big, and even the safest seats were at risk.
Think it might have been very different with Smith still there.
Without knowing how hard he was working andhow I'm not sure what conclusions could be drawn from it.
It is ironic that if that is the case then people like me will have to eat our words about him being fundamentally lazy. I do feel I have misjudged his character somewhat if the evidence of the past month or more is anything to go by.
Well it's quite possible previous assessments were correct but that he operates very differently in a crisis, but it would seem somewhat invidious for him to be criticised for not enough and too much work.
Our system is so centralised that it isn’t possible to be lazy as PM. The question with Boris was always whether he could adjust to the change in pace/volume.
Without knowing how hard he was working andhow I'm not sure what conclusions could be drawn from it.
Two weeks ago the press were working themselves into an outrage that he was even allowed to take a test.
And before that, they worked themselves into a frenzy over if he actually worked hard enough and why wasn't he at every COBR meeting since January....now he worked too hard and its his fault he is in ICU.
Agreed. There is a serious point, though, that medics strongly advise that you do not try to work through a persistent fever. (Irrespective of what Boris might or might not have done, which none of us really know anyway.)
Question for @Foxy: Do you get much of a sense of which patients are likely to pull through if they need to go on a ventilator, or does recovery seem to arrive like a miracle?
There was a nurse - American I think - interviewed somewhere on CNN who claimed staff get a feel for the outcome early on in many cases.
Without knowing how hard he was working andhow I'm not sure what conclusions could be drawn from it.
It is ironic that if that is the case then people like me will have to eat our words about him being fundamentally lazy. I do feel I have misjudged his character somewhat if the evidence of the past month or more is anything to go by.
The Daily Mail account says he has refused to take a break
Question for @Foxy: Do you get much of a sense of which patients are likely to pull through if they need to go on a ventilator, or does recovery seem to arrive like a miracle?
The ICU outreach team make those decisions. They only take the ones that they think can benefit. That can seem like quite hard rationing decisions, but it really is about clinical response.
Typical weasel words from Boris’ critics. Trying to find that way of looking dignified without having to, heaven forbid, wish him well as he struggles to stay alive.
What makes them think they’re so important that they have to say anything at all?
Without knowing how hard he was working andhow I'm not sure what conclusions could be drawn from it.
It is ironic that if that is the case then people like me will have to eat our words about him being fundamentally lazy. I do feel I have misjudged his character somewhat if the evidence of the past month or more is anything to go by.
The Daily Mail account says he has refused to take a break
Was the advice to do so coming from colleagues or medical experts?
A question - is being put on a ventilator always a last resort, or is it something that can potentially help somebody who doesn't technically require one?
CPAP machine is the step between oxygen mask and ventilator, that seems to be what they use before going the full hog...as putting somebody on a ventilator is a big step, very traumatic for the body.
Indeed. I seem to recall data being released from Italy to the effect that use of CPAP machines reduced demand for ventilation by half. They are much simpler and faster to manufacture, non-invasive, and (unless PBers of a medical bent would wish to contradict) presumably much easier for very hard pressed hospital staff to set up.
Yes, CPAP does have its advocates. It does aerosolize the secretions, which is rather a cross infection risk and can rather overload the hospital oxygen capacity.
Is this the same CPAP machine you get for sleep apnea?
Pretty much. The OSA ones are for home usage. OSA is a bad risk factor for COVID19 though.
I am continually surprised how many people I know who have sleep apnea. The two topics of conversation appear to be how to keep the kit clean, and who has the best cpap machine and face kit. Apparently daily cleaning is essential and a royal pain.
Yes, we have 10 000 diagnosed in Leicestershire out of a million population, and there are loads out there undiagnosed.
Even amazon sells the machines and supplies and they still have delivery within a week.
I wouldn't recommend home treatment unsupervised, and thee oxygen concentration would be too low domestically, I think.
Though the guy running ICU in the Welsh Valleys seems to think CPAP a good option.
For most people who get it they will not be hospitalised and hot broth is what they will most need, indeed arguably if the PM had spent more time drinking hot broth and sleeping over the last few days and less time working he might not have needed ICU admittance tonight
There was some wasn’t there? In the bigger picture you don’t want General Melchett in the trenches or going over the top. The equivalents in this war are handshakes, testing, quarantine, leaders all over the planet just been getting on with it eschewing those things.
Personally I think this whole thing has just come in on the blind side. It’s only this week the penny has dropped those on the ventilators are in their 50s and less. It’s still not properly sunk in this lockdown is just flattening the sombrero not going to kill it, no switch on for economy in June or July. The only way to actually kill it is going to be Hunt it more than we are doing.
And it’s important for that penny to drop, because the economy can’t be kept in coma much after June or bits of it will start permanently dying, so we we need to start hunting lot more than we doing.
We are not going to kill it until a vaccine emerges, which could be years away, so in the meantime we will just have to lockdown as we near the peak, then ease off again for all but the most vulnerable and mass test, then lockdown again before the next peak
No. That is wrong. You see I am right, the penny hasn’t dropped. What happens to the Big G of this world in the herd immunity you just described. What happens to so much of the economy if state of play doesn’t allow the easing you are anticipating? We need to hunt it, track it down and isolate it. Lock down is defence, we need to go on the offence.
I know that a point like this comes up every time we have a Prime Ministerial handover between elections, but this really seems like an odd moment to bring it up.
As the UK is a parliamentary democracy, there is no need, under the UK’s unwritten constitution, for an election in order for Raab to assume prime ministerial powers. However, political pressure could eventually lead to one
I struggle to envisage a situation where there would be sufficient political pressure to have an election to endorse Raab as PM, even in a worst case scenario. It's not as though political pressure, from opponents, is enough to get one when there aren't emergency reasons why someone may have taken over.
Typical weasel words from Boris’ critics. Trying to find that way of looking dignified without having to, heaven forbid, wish him well as he struggles to stay alive.
What makes them think they’re so important that they have to say anything at all?
Worse than that - could have at least mentioned his fiancé, who's in isolation herself. But no, the kids (all 5-6+ of them of course...)
It comes to something when Richard Burgon is more tasteful than some of the media this evening
Let's do a thought experiment. Let's imagine it wasn't the lovable buffoon from HIGNFY who is in peril, but instead, let's say, one Jeremy Corbin.
How tasteful would the comments on Pb.com, other social media or the established media be?
I would very much hope they would be the same.
Of course they would. I detest Corbyn’s politics and find him a querulous old narcissist as a person. And a fool.
But if he got this? He’s a father and a husband. He’s not evil, just silly.
I would wish him well, fervently, especially if he was the prime minster and the nation needed stability in a time of crisis.
Indeed and looking back at the tragic passing of John Smith I do believe people were respectful regardless of partisan politics. Hopefully he can recover but party politics doesn't matter right now.
I have never understood the belief that John Smith wouldn't have won the election - maybe not Tony Blairs massive landslide, but he would have got a solid majority for sure.
A very interesting what-if that way.....
Not easy to say. The Conservatives lost all unity because they simply did not know how to respond to Blair, and ended up resorting to an "every man (and Teresa Gorman)" to themselves. They knew they were going to lose big, and even the safest seats were at risk.
Think it might have been very different with Smith still there.
Smith would have got a majority of 50 to 100 in 1997 but only Blair could have got a majority of near 200 and won seats like Braintree, Shrewsbury and Atcham and Wimbledon
I know that a point like this comes up every time we have a Prime Ministerial handover between elections, but this really seems like an odd moment to bring it up.
As the UK is a parliamentary democracy, there is no need, under the UK’s unwritten constitution, for an election in order for Raab to assume prime ministerial powers. However, political pressure could eventually lead to one
I struggle to envisage a situation where there would be sufficient political pressure to have an election to endorse Raab as PM, even in a worst case scenario. It's not as though political pressure, from opponents, is enough to get one when there aren't emergency reasons why someone may have taken over.
Over enthusiastic journalist at the Guardian I think.
It feels like current affairs have been slightly out of control for about 5 or 6 years now, ever since Cameron gave the green light to the Scottish referendum.
Comments
If my hair ends up too short then all the lumps and bumps on my scalp that it hides might be made visible. I'd end up looking like Shrek.
Only not green.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/apr/06/the-strange-lead-up-to-boris-johnsons-admission-to-hospital
How tasteful would the comments on Pb.com, other social media or the established media be?
I’ve had to upgrade from wine to something stronger, and it’s only Monday.
https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/1244736949728002048?s=19
Some hate Boris, some hate Corbyn, but it's hard to predict how many online would be hateful arseholes in a situation regarding either man's health.
But without drifting into too much sanctimony, I don't think the number would be all that high regardless. Politics is politics. It can and should be extremely important at times, and that will engender the kinds of fervour that will for some bleed over into extreme reactions including of the most distasteful kind. But most people have no problem putting down the politics in such moments.
In this at least, the majority of our MPs do indeed show the way as leaders better even than their supporters, because they nearly all know when to dial it back. They don't think they will weaken their future opposition to whichever side they oppose by showing humanity to them.
Legend.
I would get my husband to try to cut it for me but, alas, tidiness is not his strong suit.
It would be less risky to entrust my barnet to the tender mercies of an arthritic octogenarian with advanced cataracts. But they're all self-isolating, of course.
In Sickness and In Power - David Owen, and When Illness Strikes the Leader - Jerrold M. Post, Robert S. Robins, cover the politics of indisposed leaders.
https://www.architectsjournal.co.uk/news/bdps-4bn-parliament-refurb-could-be-ditched-for-quick-fix/10046571.article
Its not like the government have hidden he has CV and tried to claim for the past 10 days he is just a bit busy to do the press conferences.
https://twitter.com/KevinMKruse/status/1247281595381436416?s=19
https://twitter.com/AyoCaesar/status/1247264798900981760?s=20
There's something unnerving about a bug that won't go away.
The costs of said project could be reduced considerably by a full decant *AND* remote working. One of the major consequences of Covid is likely to be that an awful lot of people who previously commuted into London will find themselves working all or most of the time from home offices. I'm sure it's not beyond the wit of man for Parliamentarians to do likewise whilst the Palace of Westminster is given the necessary overhaul.
https://twitter.com/adamboultonSKY/status/1247100110393282560
Blairs team weren’t forth coming about his problems till Liz slipped it out (how was that covered in memoirs, did they think she did it by accident or design) I don’t think it is possible to hide much these days, certainly not in U.K.
The most famous one probably the Irish Premier standing on runway wondering why Yeltsin not getting off the plane.
But I vividly remember when a fortnight ago news broke that our head honcho had to retreat into quarantine because she had been treated by a doctor who was later tested positive.
Less perilous by at least an order of magnitude, compared to the PM's situation for sure, but still, I noticed about a dozen responses on here to that news report, every single one of them more or less full of vitriol, not a single conciliatory one.
I remember asking myself at that time, 'what if it had been Jeremy Corbyn' and whether the reactions would have been more of the desirable kind. And I remember myself being unsure of the answer to that question.
A very interesting what-if that way.....
There was some wasn’t there? In the bigger picture you don’t want General Melchett in the trenches or going over the top. The equivalents in this war are handshakes, testing, quarantine, leaders all over the planet just been getting on with it eschewing those things.
Personally I think this whole thing has just come in on the blind side. It’s only this week the penny has dropped those on the ventilators are in their 50s and less. It’s still not properly sunk in this lockdown is just flattening the sombrero not going to kill it, no switch on for economy in June or July. The only way to actually kill it is going to be Hunt it more than we are doing.
And it’s important for that penny to drop, because the economy can’t be kept in coma much after June or bits of it will start permanently dying, so we we need to start hunting lot more than we doing.
There may be a lot of people traumatised for months after this who have been in ITU. Lots of tolerant and silent listening may be required. The same may apply to staff, in particular helping them feel very normal again outside the work bubble imo with simple things.
I was in ITU for more than a week 2 years ago with DKA after a persistent chest infection failed to go away, and they kept me sedated for a whole week. I was apparently growing some quite exotic bugs.
I came out with the weirdest set of false memories, and they offered a post-counselling meeting a month later with a senior ITU nurse and an ologist.
One involved being treated in an environment that was internally international orange, and a sort of cross between the control room in the Prisoner series, and the rotating drum section in the spaceship in Space Odyssey 2001. Another involved bureaucratic battles and schemes to prevent family visits, again in a bizarre padded office environment. Another was that the parent who lived with me had been taken away to other family, and would not be coming back. I also made several delusional 'I'm being held in here and I need to escape' phone calls.
It's strange what a free running brain can do.
After being brought round I was quizzing the nurses about whether some of these memories were true, and for quite a few weeks I was getting my dreams about family relationships and conversations muddled between the false memories and the reality. It would have been easy to hurt people without knowing.
One appreciates the need for the medical sense of humour.
Though the guy running ICU in the Welsh Valleys seems to think CPAP a good option.
https://twitter.com/WelshGasDoc/status/1245842327979134984?s=19
Think it might have been very different with Smith still there.
https://twitter.com/afneil/status/1247266239682162689
There is a serious point, though, that medics strongly advise that you do not try to work through a persistent fever. (Irrespective of what Boris might or might not have done, which none of us really know anyway.)
What makes them think they’re so important that they have to say anything at all?
What happens to the Big G of this world in the herd immunity you just described. What happens to so much of the economy if state of play doesn’t allow the easing you are anticipating? We need to hunt it, track it down and isolate it. Lock down is defence, we need to go on the offence.
As the UK is a parliamentary democracy, there is no need, under the UK’s unwritten constitution, for an election in order for Raab to assume prime ministerial powers. However, political pressure could eventually lead to one
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/apr/06/dominic-raab-set-to-lead-uk-through-covid-19-hurdles
I struggle to envisage a situation where there would be sufficient political pressure to have an election to endorse Raab as PM, even in a worst case scenario. It's not as though political pressure, from opponents, is enough to get one when there aren't emergency reasons why someone may have taken over.