I know he has a very poor rep on here, but from a personal perspective, I didn't despise the guy. It's just his position as a prominent shadow Secretary of State laid bare how empty Corbyn's party was of any talent.
What time is Shami's exist? I wouldn't want to miss it.
Quite extraordinary. There must be people who could do the job as well as her. How can she appear on TV again? An odd misstep by Nicola.
Press question to every behaviour recommendation she makes from now on: "Is this something you will be keeping to? Are you sure? Are you really sure, or do you think you will have an excuse not to?"
My understanding is that the press are setting up camp aroungd his home now - but fear he may call the Police on them for breaking the lockdown. This may be the excuse needed to delay his resignation.....
"All commercial flights between Sweden and the UK will be suspended from the afternoon of Thursday 9th April until further notice, according to The British Embassy in Sweden."
One unpleasant thing this lockdown has brought out is the verve by which fellow Britons love policing the actions of others.
I find it rather distasteful.
I don't think the lockdown can continue for more than 3 or 4 months. Johnson probably understands that. Let's hope the Swedish experiment proves successful.
As the three month furlough ends, a lot of people will find they don't have jobs to come back to as either their employer has downsized or gone to the wall entirely. And they will not be able to pay their rent or mortgage the next month.
At the moment, we are in a state of collective denial about this. One of the government's top scientific advisers was in the Times only yesterday saying that ultimately, there is no alternative on the table to herd immunity.
A vaccine is unlikely to be ready for a year or more and we cannot afford to spend that long in lockdown without bankrupting ourselves and risking real social disorder.
A short lockdown to allow the NHS to increase capacity, followed by a year of social distancing measures, and gradual herd immunity is the least-worst way forward.
People will die. It will be ugly and it will scar our collective psyche for a generation. But there is no other choice.
Nobody wants to think about that right now, as the government pays them 80% of their wages to take a holiday. But when the money runs out, the music stops.
As someone in the Telegraph pointed out, it could be years before a vaccine is found.
there are - famous - viral diseases still without vaccines.
I don’t think herd immunity ever went away as a policy goal TBH
oh, I don't either: it remains one of the few options we have to get out of this
Who is this 'we'? Herd immunity is great for survivors, but not optimal for those who succumb. We need a vaccine!
As Boris is already on the herd immunity bus, he could well now ask the conductor to ring the bell! I hope not...
Vaccine is a method of herd immunity, not an alternative to it.
Yeah, the method of acquiring immunity might be either getting it and surviving or being vaccinated. The end result is the same.
The latter seems a better bet than getting it and potentially not surviving.
One unpleasant thing this lockdown has brought out is the verve by which fellow Britons love policing the actions of others.
I find it rather distasteful.
I don't think the lockdown can continue for more than 3 or 4 months. Johnson probably understands that. Let's hope the Swedish experiment proves successful.
As the three month furlough ends, a lot of people will find they don't have jobs to come back to as either their employer has downsized or gone to the wall entirely. And they will not be able to pay their rent or mortgage the next month.
At the moment, we are in a state of collective denial about this. One of the government's top scientific advisers was in the Times only yesterday saying that ultimately, there is no alternative on the table to herd immunity.
A vaccine is unlikely to be ready for a year or more and we cannot afford to spend that long in lockdown without bankrupting ourselves and risking real social disorder.
A short lockdown to allow the NHS to increase capacity, followed by a year of social distancing measures, and gradual herd immunity is the least-worst way forward.
People will die. It will be ugly and it will scar our collective psyche for a generation. But there is no other choice.
Nobody wants to think about that right now, as the government pays them 80% of their wages to take a holiday. But when the money runs out, the music stops.
As someone in the Telegraph pointed out, it could be years before a vaccine is found.
there are - famous - viral diseases still without vaccines.
I don’t think herd immunity ever went away as a policy goal TBH
oh, I don't either: it remains one of the few options we have to get out of this
Who is this 'we'? Herd immunity is great for survivors, but not optimal for those who succumb. We need a vaccine!
As Boris is already on the herd immunity bus, he could well now ask the conductor to ring the bell! I hope not...
A vaccine is the way of getting herd immunity with fewer casualties. Unless there is a sudden scientific breakthrough we have to assume that the lock down will be eased when the advisers are confident that the health system can cope. I assume they hope they can fine tune infection rates as measures are slowly eased. The vulnerable will continue in greater isolation for the foreseeable. Eventually the combination of greater social isolation even after lock down is eased plus more immune people in the community will mean that it will burn out. Of course mutations may confound this and extend the struggle.
They may but if Covid-19 has any sense will mutate to stop killing its hosts for its own survival
Smallpox had >10x the CFR of Covid 19, survived 12 millennia and did not die out because it ran out of hosts.
One unpleasant thing this lockdown has brought out is the verve by which fellow Britons love policing the actions of others.
I find it rather distasteful.
I don't think the lockdown can continue for more than 3 or 4 months. Johnson probably understands that. Let's hope the Swedish experiment proves successful.
As the three month furlough ends, a lot of people will find they don't have jobs to come back to as either their employer has downsized or gone to the wall entirely. And they will not be able to pay their rent or mortgage the next month.
At the moment, we are in a state of collective denial about this. One of the government's top scientific advisers was in the Times only yesterday saying that ultimately, there is no alternative on the table to herd immunity.
A vaccine is unlikely to be ready for a year or more and we cannot afford to spend that long in lockdown without bankrupting ourselves and risking real social disorder.
A short lockdown to allow the NHS to increase capacity, followed by a year of social distancing measures, and gradual herd immunity is the least-worst way forward.
People will die. It will be ugly and it will scar our collective psyche for a generation. But there is no other choice.
Nobody wants to think about that right now, as the government pays them 80% of their wages to take a holiday. But when the money runs out, the music stops.
As someone in the Telegraph pointed out, it could be years before a vaccine is found.
there are - famous - viral diseases still without vaccines.
I don’t think herd immunity ever went away as a policy goal TBH
oh, I don't either: it remains one of the few options we have to get out of this
Who is this 'we'? Herd immunity is great for survivors, but not optimal for those who succumb. We need a vaccine!
As Boris is already on the herd immunity bus, he could well now ask the conductor to ring the bell! I hope not...
I think you're being both naïve and partisan here. Its an easy to ignore mix.
I wasn't trying to be partisan. Boris, practically speaking is personally out of the woods as far as Covid-19 is concerned.
That seems a little premature. The pattern of COVID19 is a deteriation after 7-10 days, the SARDS seems to be a late phenomenon in general.
"The second is one of the most memorable pieces I have ever read in The Spectator. It is from 2003 and is in that bucket of pieces that at the time – and still – I think ‘Gosh I can’t believe we ran that, but I’m glad we did’."
I'd guess it's safe to assume that everbody will already have been aware that SeanT is an obsessive wanker. The two pertinent questions to ask right now may be "how does the publishing of this 'piece' reflect on the Spectator editorship at that time" and "how much do we have to worry about granny and the swans".
I can’t access the article. Was that the one about him and the Danish porn, or the one about the Thai prostitute’s autograph?
"In a few weeks I had sourced a lot of websites that were much better than The Hun; sites with literally tens of thousands of categorised images of everything under the sexual sun: interracial porn, Japanese cartoon porn, women-smoking-on-the-toilet porn. It was a cornucopia, available 24/7."
One unpleasant thing this lockdown has brought out is the verve by which fellow Britons love policing the actions of others.
I find it rather distasteful.
I don't think the lockdown can continue for more than 3 or 4 months. Johnson probably understands that. Let's hope the Swedish experiment proves successful.
As the three month furlough ends, a lot of people will find they don't have jobs to come back to as either their employer has downsized or gone to the wall entirely. And they will not be able to pay their rent or mortgage the next month.
At the moment, we are in a state of collective denial about this. One of the government's top scientific advisers was in the Times only yesterday saying that ultimately, there is no alternative on the table to herd immunity.
A vaccine is unlikely to be ready for a year or more and we cannot afford to spend that long in lockdown without bankrupting ourselves and risking real social disorder.
A short lockdown to allow the NHS to increase capacity, followed by a year of social distancing measures, and gradual herd immunity is the least-worst way forward.
People will die. It will be ugly and it will scar our collective psyche for a generation. But there is no other choice.
Nobody wants to think about that right now, as the government pays them 80% of their wages to take a holiday. But when the money runs out, the music stops.
Very well summarised, hard to really pick holes in this analysis. Ugly indeed. Also, whatever South Korea is doing seems to be working, so maybe throwing money and manpower at that will keep deaths to a minimum while allowing some form of normality to return?
I am sadly of the opinion that more people will die in Britain as a direct or indirect consequence of the lockdown and the shredding of the economy than will die as a result of CV-19. We already know that people are dying because of disruption to their treatment, because of suicides and because they are alone with no one to look after them.
The trouble is that saying more will die as a result of the 'cure' compared to the disease does not take into account what would have happened if we had not instigated the 'cure'. I am inclined to believe the ICL numbers about how many would have died without a lockdown. But I am still uncomfortable with the fact that we are, to large extent, acting as if the lockdown is victimless.
I agree that people who consider a lockdown is victimless are being foolish, but Idoubt there really are many people who think that. However, I am sadly of the opinion that without sthe current levels of social distancing thesituation in western Europe in Mid-April would be a genuine disaster zone, and much worse than we we will see with the current measures.
FInally your comment about people having disrupted treatment for non-covid illnesses; that situation would be an order of magnitude worse if no action were taken slow the outbreak.
One unpleasant thing this lockdown has brought out is the verve by which fellow Britons love policing the actions of others.
I find it rather distasteful.
I don't think the lockdown can continue for more than 3 or 4 months. Johnson probably understands that. Let's hope the Swedish experiment proves successful.
As the three month furlough ends, a lot of people will find they don't have jobs to come back to as either their employer has downsized or gone to the wall entirely. And they will not be able to pay their rent or mortgage the next month.
At the moment, we are in a state of collective denial about this. One of the government's top scientific advisers was in the Times only yesterday saying that ultimately, there is no alternative on the table to herd immunity.
A vaccine is unlikely to be ready for a year or more and we cannot afford to spend that long in lockdown without bankrupting ourselves and risking real social disorder.
A short lockdown to allow the NHS to increase capacity, followed by a year of social distancing measures, and gradual herd immunity is the least-worst way forward.
People will die. It will be ugly and it will scar our collective psyche for a generation. But there is no other choice.
Nobody wants to think about that right now, as the government pays them 80% of their wages to take a holiday. But when the money runs out, the music stops.
As someone in the Telegraph pointed out, it could be years before a vaccine is found.
there are - famous - viral diseases still without vaccines.
I don’t think herd immunity ever went away as a policy goal TBH
oh, I don't either: it remains one of the few options we have to get out of this
Who is this 'we'? Herd immunity is great for survivors, but not optimal for those who succumb. We need a vaccine!
As Boris is already on the herd immunity bus, he could well now ask the conductor to ring the bell! I hope not...
Vaccine is a method of herd immunity, not an alternative to it.
Yeah, the method of acquiring immunity might be either getting it and surviving or being vaccinated. The end result is the same.
The latter seems a better bet than getting it and potentially not surviving.
Of course. Unfortunately, it's not currently available.
One unpleasant thing this lockdown has brought out is the verve by which fellow Britons love policing the actions of others.
I find it rather distasteful.
I don't think the lockdown can continue for more than 3 or 4 months. Johnson probably understands that. Let's hope the Swedish experiment proves successful.
As the three month furlough ends, a lot of people will find they don't have jobs to come back to as either their employer has downsized or gone to the wall entirely. And they will not be able to pay their rent or mortgage the next month.
At the moment, we are in a state of collective denial about this. One of the government's top scientific advisers was in the Times only yesterday saying that ultimately, there is no alternative on the table to herd immunity.
A vaccine is unlikely to be ready for a year or more and we cannot afford to spend that long in lockdown without bankrupting ourselves and risking real social disorder.
A short lockdown to allow the NHS to increase capacity, followed by a year of social distancing measures, and gradual herd immunity is the least-worst way forward.
People will die. It will be ugly and it will scar our collective psyche for a generation. But there is no other choice.
Nobody wants to think about that right now, as the government pays them 80% of their wages to take a holiday. But when the money runs out, the music stops.
As someone in the Telegraph pointed out, it could be years before a vaccine is found.
there are - famous - viral diseases still without vaccines.
I don’t think herd immunity ever went away as a policy goal TBH
oh, I don't either: it remains one of the few options we have to get out of this
Who is this 'we'? Herd immunity is great for survivors, but not optimal for those who succumb. We need a vaccine!
As Boris is already on the herd immunity bus, he could well now ask the conductor to ring the bell! I hope not...
I think you're being both naïve and partisan here. Its an easy to ignore mix.
I wasn't trying to be partisan. Boris, practically speaking is personally out of the woods as far as Covid-19 is concerned.
That seems a little premature. The pattern of COVID19 is a deteriation after 7-10 days, the SARDS seems to be a late phenomenon in general.
Has Hancock given a figure for the number of ventilators we have and need, this morning?
I think he said we had twelve thousand, and didn’t need thirty thousand any more but didn’t say how many we were expected to need. It wasn’t easy to tell because he was getting so confused.
One unpleasant thing this lockdown has brought out is the verve by which fellow Britons love policing the actions of others.
I find it rather distasteful.
I don't think the lockdown can continue for more than 3 or 4 months. Johnson probably understands that. Let's hope the Swedish experiment proves successful.
As the three month furlough ends, a lot of people will find they don't have jobs to come back to as either their employer has downsized or gone to the wall entirely. And they will not be able to pay their rent or mortgage the next month.
At the moment, we are in a state of collective denial about this. One of the government's top scientific advisers was in the Times only yesterday saying that ultimately, there is no alternative on the table to herd immunity.
A vaccine is unlikely to be ready for a year or more and we cannot afford to spend that long in lockdown without bankrupting ourselves and risking real social disorder.
A short lockdown to allow the NHS to increase capacity, followed by a year of social distancing measures, and gradual herd immunity is the least-worst way forward.
People will die. It will be ugly and it will scar our collective psyche for a generation. But there is no other choice.
Nobody wants to think about that right now, as the government pays them 80% of their wages to take a holiday. But when the money runs out, the music stops.
As someone in the Telegraph pointed out, it could be years before a vaccine is found.
there are - famous - viral diseases still without vaccines.
I don’t think herd immunity ever went away as a policy goal TBH
oh, I don't either: it remains one of the few options we have to get out of this
Who is this 'we'? Herd immunity is great for survivors, but not optimal for those who succumb. We need a vaccine!
As Boris is already on the herd immunity bus, he could well now ask the conductor to ring the bell! I hope not...
Vaccine is a method of herd immunity, not an alternative to it.
Yeah, the method of acquiring immunity might be either getting it and surviving or being vaccinated. The end result is the same.
The latter seems a better bet than getting it and potentially not surviving.
Of course. Unfortunately, it's not currently available.
That's the first time that I have seen ethnicity feature in a UK report. Asians and Black look over represented. Possibly due to the worst hotspots being in London and the West Midlands, but noteworthy nevertheless. Alternatively could relate to high rates of diabetes and CVS disease in those groups. Outcomes still looking grim for those needing advanced respiratory support.
Even in quieter times, if you need advanced respiratory support, for whatever reason, your odds are not looking that great.
The NE miners vote is lost! Oh wait... already gone!
Who are these miners of which you speak?
Ian Lavery was the last of them. That’s why he was able to use all their accumulated union subs to buy his house and get a massive redundancy payment for resigning.
you telling me the miners' pension fund was a tontine?
The average IQ figure for the Shadow Cabinet has just increased dramatically.
Why? Has he sacked Burgon too?
On that news the average will go through the roof!
What's your IQ Pete.
I presume as you know everybody else's you dont have a problem sharing yours.
If I knew BJO I would gladly share it with you. Lower than Burgon's I expect, but I am still happy to see the back of him.
Thanks Pete.
I am really quite excited, under dreadful general circumstances, that we have someone who looks like he can provide a sensible alternative to the Conservatives and give them a run for their money in more normal times.
A dream ticket of RLB and Burgon would not have been given any credibility to do that. And for an educated man Burgon seems to be completely devoid of common-sense and self awareness.
One thing Starmer has is that the way the cards fall, the 124th seat isn't ridiculously safe (5.25% swing required). A 6% swing would probably deliver a reasonable majority.
A 5.25% takes Filton and Bradley Stoke, target no. 59. That would still be a greater swing than Thatcher managed.
Not entirely sure the usual rules apply, such was Corbyn's toxicity. The inability to recapture Scotland is a massive and likely insurmountable hurdle for any future Labour majority to be reached. A minority Labour Government sans Corbyn is not beyond possibility next time.
As TSE has pointed out Covid-19 changes everything, and to who's advantage is anyone's guess.
As ever, a recipe for a catastrophic mess. The main enablers for a Labour minority are likely to be the SNP, who will insist on a second referendum.
The UK Government could very well end up trying to negotiate the dissolution of the UK with the SNP, whilst being propped up (until the point that this is completed) by... the SNP.
Isn't that what did for the Liberals? They had support from the Irish Nationalists for their Home Rule policy, then lost power after Ireland got Home Rule?
The NE miners vote is lost! Oh wait... already gone!
Who are these miners of which you speak?
Ian Lavery was the last of them. That’s why he was able to use all their accumulated union subs to buy his house and get a massive redundancy payment for resigning.
you telling me the miners' pension fund was a tontine?
Not pensions - welfare. Most of the money AIUI came from a fund to compensate miners with pneumoconiosis, but as hardly any of them were still alive it all went to union funds.
Mr Ukip has a point. Why is being in the park standing up OK but lying down not?
Because you can lie down in your own home! The rules are that you can go out to exercise.
The impenetrable thickness of some people never ceases to amaze me.
If going to the park is dangerous, ban it. If it is not, then let people sunbathe. The trouble with inconsistent regulations is people misunderstand them, and so inadvertently break them.
And still you're too thick to understand, even after it's been spelled out in words of one syllable!
The problem is that we're dealing with people who, if you can believe it, are stupider than you.
These people look to the letter of the law to determine how they act and are incapable of making the self-evident, glaringly obvious interpretations of the law that people such as yourself are able to do.
Has Hancock given a figure for the number of ventilators we have and need, this morning?
I think he said we had twelve thousand, and didn’t need thirty thousand any more but didn’t say how many we were expected to need. It wasn’t easy to tell because he was getting so confused.
Thanks ydoethur. 12,000 is almost double what we had in ICU wards a month ago and a good 4,000 up on the total including in Theatres. So that's good progress if we already have 12,000. What's Burgons IQ BTW? I see you mentioned him departing will lead to a significant increase.
One unpleasant thing this lockdown has brought out is the verve by which fellow Britons love policing the actions of others.
I find it rather distasteful.
I don't think the lockdown can continue for more than 3 or 4 months. Johnson probably understands that. Let's hope the Swedish experiment proves successful.
As the three month furlough ends, a lot of people will find they don't have jobs to come back to as either their employer has downsized or gone to the wall entirely. And they will not be able to pay their rent or mortgage the next month.
At the moment, we are in a state of collective denial about this. One of the government's top scientific advisers was in the Times only yesterday saying that ultimately, there is no alternative on the table to herd immunity.
A vaccine is unlikely to be ready for a year or more and we cannot afford to spend that long in lockdown without bankrupting ourselves and risking real social disorder.
A short lockdown to allow the NHS to increase capacity, followed by a year of social distancing measures, and gradual herd immunity is the least-worst way forward.
People will die. It will be ugly and it will scar our collective psyche for a generation. But there is no other choice.
Nobody wants to think about that right now, as the government pays them 80% of their wages to take a holiday. But when the money runs out, the music stops.
As someone in the Telegraph pointed out, it could be years before a vaccine is found.
there are - famous - viral diseases still without vaccines.
I don’t think herd immunity ever went away as a policy goal TBH
oh, I don't either: it remains one of the few options we have to get out of this
Who is this 'we'? Herd immunity is great for survivors, but not optimal for those who succumb. We need a vaccine!
As Boris is already on the herd immunity bus, he could well now ask the conductor to ring the bell! I hope not...
A vaccine is the way of getting herd immunity with fewer casualties. Unless there is a sudden scientific breakthrough we have to assume that the lock down will be eased when the advisers are confident that the health system can cope. I assume they hope they can fine tune infection rates as measures are slowly eased. The vulnerable will continue in greater isolation for the foreseeable. Eventually the combination of greater social isolation even after lock down is eased plus more immune people in the community will mean that it will burn out. Of course mutations may confound this and extend the struggle.
They may but if Covid-19 has any sense will mutate to stop killing its hosts for its own survival
Smallpox had >10x the CFR of Covid 19, survived 12 millennia and did not die out because it ran out of hosts.
I wasn’t being entirely serious. The bit where I suggested it was capable of conscious thought hopefully indicates that.
Except that people are constantly asking "is the cure actually worse?".
You can hardly get through 5 minutes without hearing that.
And we are not simply "afraid of death;" we are afraid of multiple excess deaths overwhelming the health care system and producing complete chaos and societal breakdown. I am sure Lord S is a clever cookie but he sounds in this instance like Peter Hitchens's less intelligent twin.
Mmm, just had some lovely Christmas Pudding. And people thought I was silly to keep a whole bunch back in December - they will last until at least March 2021, so I've easily sorted.
Has Hancock given a figure for the number of ventilators we have and need, this morning?
I think he said we had twelve thousand, and didn’t need thirty thousand any more but didn’t say how many we were expected to need. It wasn’t easy to tell because he was getting so confused.
One unpleasant thing this lockdown has brought out is the verve by which fellow Britons love policing the actions of others.
I find it rather distasteful.
I don't think the lockdown can continue for more than 3 or 4 months. Johnson probably understands that. Let's hope the Swedish experiment proves successful.
As the three month furlough ends, a lot of people will find they don't have jobs to come back to as either their employer has downsized or gone to the wall entirely. And they will not be able to pay their rent or mortgage the next month.
At the moment, we are in a state of collective denial about this. One of the government's top scientific advisers was in the Times only yesterday saying that ultimately, there is no alternative on the table to herd immunity.
A vaccine is unlikely to be ready for a year or more and we cannot afford to spend that long in lockdown without bankrupting ourselves and risking real social disorder.
A short lockdown to allow the NHS to increase capacity, followed by a year of social distancing measures, and gradual herd immunity is the least-worst way forward.
People will die. It will be ugly and it will scar our collective psyche for a generation. But there is no other choice.
Nobody wants to think about that right now, as the government pays them 80% of their wages to take a holiday. But when the money runs out, the music stops.
As someone in the Telegraph pointed out, it could be years before a vaccine is found.
there are - famous - viral diseases still without vaccines.
I don’t think herd immunity ever went away as a policy goal TBH
oh, I don't either: it remains one of the few options we have to get out of this
Who is this 'we'? Herd immunity is great for survivors, but not optimal for those who succumb. We need a vaccine!
As Boris is already on the herd immunity bus, he could well now ask the conductor to ring the bell! I hope not...
A vaccine is the way of getting herd immunity with fewer casualties. Unless there is a sudden scientific breakthrough we have to assume that the lock down will be eased when the advisers are confident that the health system can cope. I assume they hope they can fine tune infection rates as measures are slowly eased. The vulnerable will continue in greater isolation for the foreseeable. Eventually the combination of greater social isolation even after lock down is eased plus more immune people in the community will mean that it will burn out. Of course mutations may confound this and extend the struggle.
They may but if Covid-19 has any sense will mutate to stop killing its hosts for its own survival
Smallpox had >10x the CFR of Covid 19, survived 12 millennia and did not die out because it ran out of hosts.
I wasn’t being entirely serious. The bit where I suggested it was capable of conscious thought hopefully indicates that.
It should have done; the trouble is that the likes of Richard Dawkins, who I read quite a lot of, routinely use language like "the gene wants x to happen" to mean "x happening selects for the gene." A bad habit in my view.
One unpleasant thing this lockdown has brought out is the verve by which fellow Britons love policing the actions of others.
I find it rather distasteful.
I don't think the lockdown can continue for more than 3 or 4 months. Johnson probably understands that. Let's hope the Swedish experiment proves successful.
As the three month furlough ends, a lot of people will find they don't have jobs to come back to as either their employer has downsized or gone to the wall entirely. And they will not be able to pay their rent or mortgage the next month.
At the moment, we are in a state of collective denial about this. One of the government's top scientific advisers was in the Times only yesterday saying that ultimately, there is no alternative on the table to herd immunity.
A vaccine is unlikely to be ready for a year or more and we cannot afford to spend that long in lockdown without bankrupting ourselves and risking real social disorder.
A short lockdown to allow the NHS to increase capacity, followed by a year of social distancing measures, and gradual herd immunity is the least-worst way forward.
People will die. It will be ugly and it will scar our collective psyche for a generation. But there is no other choice.
Nobody wants to think about that right now, as the government pays them 80% of their wages to take a holiday. But when the money runs out, the music stops.
As someone in the Telegraph pointed out, it could be years before a vaccine is found.
there are - famous - viral diseases still without vaccines.
I don’t think herd immunity ever went away as a policy goal TBH
oh, I don't either: it remains one of the few options we have to get out of this
Who is this 'we'? Herd immunity is great for survivors, but not optimal for those who succumb. We need a vaccine!
As Boris is already on the herd immunity bus, he could well now ask the conductor to ring the bell! I hope not...
A vaccine is the way of getting herd immunity with fewer casualties. Unless there is a sudden scientific breakthrough we have to assume that the lock down will be eased when the advisers are confident that the health system can cope. I assume they hope they can fine tune infection rates as measures are slowly eased. The vulnerable will continue in greater isolation for the foreseeable. Eventually the combination of greater social isolation even after lock down is eased plus more immune people in thhas to do with e community will mean that it will burn out. Of course mutations may confound this and extend the struggle.
They may but if Covid-19 has any sense will mutate to stop killing its hosts for its own survival
Smallpox had >10x the CFR of Covid 19, survived 12 millennia and did not die out because it ran out of hosts.
Yes, I wonder how much the rise of the anti-vaxx movement has to do with parents being too young have lived through the eradication of Smallpox (world wide) and Polio (in western countries)
The NE miners vote is lost! Oh wait... already gone!
Who are these miners of which you speak?
Ian Lavery was the last of them. That’s why he was able to use all their accumulated union subs to buy his house and get a massive redundancy payment for resigning.
you telling me the miners' pension fund was a tontine?
Not pensions - welfare. Most of the money AIUI came from a fund to compensate miners with pneumoconiosis, but as hardly any of them were still alive it all went to union funds.
The NE miners vote is lost! Oh wait... already gone!
Who are these miners of which you speak?
Ian Lavery was the last of them. That’s why he was able to use all their accumulated union subs to buy his house and get a massive redundancy payment for resigning.
you telling me the miners' pension fund was a tontine?
Not pensions - welfare. Most of the money AIUI came from a fund to compensate miners with pneumoconiosis, but as hardly any of them were still alive it all went to union funds.
Except that people are constantly asking "is the cure actually worse?".
You can hardly get through 5 minutes without hearing that.
Another string to the 'we contrarians with our edgy uncomfortable views are constantly being gagged' bow. Scientific studies have found that there can be as many as 749 published articles espousing these views on any given day.
The NE miners vote is lost! Oh wait... already gone!
Who are these miners of which you speak?
Ian Lavery was the last of them. That’s why he was able to use all their accumulated union subs to buy his house and get a massive redundancy payment for resigning.
you telling me the miners' pension fund was a tontine?
Not pensions - welfare. Most of the money AIUI came from a fund to compensate miners with pneumoconiosis, but as hardly any of them were still alive it all went to union funds.
Far be it for me to defend Lavery but didn't compensation revert to next of kin in the event of prior-bereavement? Assuming a claim was made.
Hancock saying that even though he has had covid science has not yet decided if he is safe to disregard social distancing and until the science confirms he can ignore social distancing it will continue to apply
Hancock saying that even though he has had covid science has not yet decided if he is safe to disregard social distancing and until the science confirms he can ignore social distancing it will continue to apply
Has Hancock given a figure for the number of ventilators we have and need, this morning?
I think he said we had twelve thousand, and didn’t need thirty thousand any more but didn’t say how many we were expected to need. It wasn’t easy to tell because he was getting so confused.
Think he said aiming for 18k.
That sounds good.
I see Broadcasters complaining the first part of todays daily briefing was not made available to them today.
Has Hancock given a figure for the number of ventilators we have and need, this morning?
I think he said we had twelve thousand, and didn’t need thirty thousand any more but didn’t say how many we were expected to need. It wasn’t easy to tell because he was getting so confused.
Thanks ydoethur. 12,000 is almost double what we had in ICU wards a month ago and a good 4,000 up on the total including in Theatres. So that's good progress if we already have 12,000. What's Burgons IQ BTW? I see you mentioned him departing will lead to a significant increase.
Just interested to know, thanks in advance.
No idea. Pretty sure somebody who makes the same mistakes repeatedly and appears to be incapable of remembering basic facts or formulating simple sentences doesn’t have a high one. I genuinely am puzzled that he got into Cambridge.
Has Hancock given a figure for the number of ventilators we have and need, this morning?
I think he said we had twelve thousand, and didn’t need thirty thousand any more but didn’t say how many we were expected to need. It wasn’t easy to tell because he was getting so confused.
Think he said aiming for 18k.
That sounds good.
I see Broadcasters complaining the first part of todays daily briefing was not made available to them today.
The latter seems a better bet than getting it and potentially not surviving.
By my rough estimate herd immunity without vaccine costs 3,000,000 hospital admissions and 250,000 deaths.
Therefore if we assume no vaccine the challenge is how best to manage 3,000,000 hospital admissions and 250,000 deaths over the next 18 months.
But I could be missing something. Sure I am. Hope so anyway.
I think the answer is South Korea! They have managed to control the spread really well and new infections are ticking along in the background. As long as it stays in control (i.e., contacts are traced rapidly upon someone being infected) and testing is high there's no reason to assume it will become unmanageable.
Has Hancock given a figure for the number of ventilators we have and need, this morning?
I think he said we had twelve thousand, and didn’t need thirty thousand any more but didn’t say how many we were expected to need. It wasn’t easy to tell because he was getting so confused.
Think he said aiming for 18k.
That sounds good.
I see Broadcasters complaining the first part of todays daily briefing was not made available to them today.
Sounded like a technical glitch. I seriously doubt it was intentional.
Has Hancock given a figure for the number of ventilators we have and need, this morning?
I think he said we had twelve thousand, and didn’t need thirty thousand any more but didn’t say how many we were expected to need. It wasn’t easy to tell because he was getting so confused.
Think he said aiming for 18k.
That sounds good.
I see Broadcasters complaining the first part of todays daily briefing was not made available to them today.
Sounded like a technical glitch. I seriously doubt it was intentional.
Has Hancock given a figure for the number of ventilators we have and need, this morning?
I think he said we had twelve thousand, and didn’t need thirty thousand any more but didn’t say how many we were expected to need. It wasn’t easy to tell because he was getting so confused.
Thanks ydoethur. 12,000 is almost double what we had in ICU wards a month ago and a good 4,000 up on the total including in Theatres. So that's good progress if we already have 12,000. What's Burgons IQ BTW? I see you mentioned him departing will lead to a significant increase.
Just interested to know, thanks in advance.
No idea. Pretty sure somebody who makes the same mistakes repeatedly and appears to be incapable of remembering basic facts or formulating simple sentences doesn’t have a high one. I genuinely am puzzled that he got into Cambridge.
The NE miners vote is lost! Oh wait... already gone!
Who are these miners of which you speak?
Ian Lavery was the last of them. That’s why he was able to use all their accumulated union subs to buy his house and get a massive redundancy payment for resigning.
you telling me the miners' pension fund was a tontine?
Not pensions - welfare. Most of the money AIUI came from a fund to compensate miners with pneumoconiosis, but as hardly any of them were still alive it all went to union funds.
Far be it for me to defend Lavery but didn't compensation revert to next of kin in the event of prior-bereavement? Assuming a claim was made.
Has Hancock given a figure for the number of ventilators we have and need, this morning?
I think he said we had twelve thousand, and didn’t need thirty thousand any more but didn’t say how many we were expected to need. It wasn’t easy to tell because he was getting so confused.
Think he said aiming for 18k.
That sounds good.
I see Broadcasters complaining the first part of todays daily briefing was not made available to them today.
Sounded like a technical glitch. I seriously doubt it was intentional.
I am sure it was a technical glitch.
Not ideal though I presume we probably get it in full later.
Has Hancock given a figure for the number of ventilators we have and need, this morning?
I think he said we had twelve thousand, and didn’t need thirty thousand any more but didn’t say how many we were expected to need. It wasn’t easy to tell because he was getting so confused.
Thanks ydoethur. 12,000 is almost double what we had in ICU wards a month ago and a good 4,000 up on the total including in Theatres. So that's good progress if we already have 12,000. What's Burgons IQ BTW? I see you mentioned him departing will lead to a significant increase.
Just interested to know, thanks in advance.
No idea. Pretty sure somebody who makes the same mistakes repeatedly and appears to be incapable of remembering basic facts or formulating simple sentences doesn’t have a high one. I genuinely am puzzled that he got into Cambridge.
One thing Starmer has is that the way the cards fall, the 124th seat isn't ridiculously safe (5.25% swing required). A 6% swing would probably deliver a reasonable majority.
A 5.25% takes Filton and Bradley Stoke, target no. 59. That would still be a greater swing than Thatcher managed.
Not entirely sure the usual rules apply, such was Corbyn's toxicity. The inability to recapture Scotland is a massive and likely insurmountable hurdle for any future Labour majority to be reached. A minority Labour Government sans Corbyn is not beyond possibility next time.
As TSE has pointed out Covid-19 changes everything, and to who's advantage is anyone's guess.
As ever, a recipe for a catastrophic mess. The main enablers for a Labour minority are likely to be the SNP, who will insist on a second referendum.
The UK Government could very well end up trying to negotiate the dissolution of the UK with the SNP, whilst being propped up (until the point that this is completed) by... the SNP.
Isn't that what did for the Liberals? They had support from the Irish Nationalists for their Home Rule policy, then lost power after Ireland got Home Rule?
No. Lots of things did for the Liberals. They were blamed for the length and damage of the First World War (unfairly, but every party in power in 1914 was swiftly removed during the war or immediately afterwards). They were hampered by changes to the franchise which gave the vote to women (who voted Conservative) and younger men (who tended to vote Labour). They were also severely damaged by a series of splits - most pertinently the intensely personal one between Lloyd George and Asquith, which reduced them to third party status in 1918. The wipeout of the Irish Nationalists and the granting of an Irish Parliament from 1922 were more aftershocks than causes of the decline.
But it’s worth remembering after 1885 the Liberals only won one election in their own strength (1906) - and that was when sometimes as many as three Unionists standing in one constituency for one vote.
One unpleasant thing this lockdown has brought out is the verve by which fellow Britons love policing the actions of others.
I find it rather distasteful.
I don't think the lockdown can continue for more than 3 or 4 months. Johnson probably understands that. Let's hope the Swedish experiment proves successful.
As the three month furlough ends, a lot of people will find they don't have jobs to come back to as either their employer has downsized or gone to the wall entirely. And they will not be able to pay their rent or mortgage the next month.
At the moment, we are in a state of collective denial about this. One of the government's top scientific advisers was in the Times only yesterday saying that ultimately, there is no alternative on the table to herd immunity.
A vaccine is unlikely to be ready for a year or more and we cannot afford to spend that long in lockdown without bankrupting ourselves and risking real social disorder.
A short lockdown to allow the NHS to increase capacity, followed by a year of social distancing measures, and gradual herd immunity is the least-worst way forward.
People will die. It will be ugly and it will scar our collective psyche for a generation. But there is no other choice.
Nobody wants to think about that right now, as the government pays them 80% of their wages to take a holiday. But when the money runs out, the music stops.
As someone in the Telegraph pointed out, it could be years before a vaccine is found.
there are - famous - viral diseases still without vaccines.
I don’t think herd immunity ever went away as a policy goal TBH
oh, I don't either: it remains one of the few options we have to get out of this
Who is this 'we'? Herd immunity is great for survivors, but not optimal for those who succumb. We need a vaccine!
As Boris is already on the herd immunity bus, he could well now ask the conductor to ring the bell! I hope not...
I think you're being both naïve and partisan here. Its an easy to ignore mix.
I wasn't trying to be partisan. Boris, practically speaking is personally out of the woods as far as Covid-19 is concerned.
That seems a little premature. The pattern of COVID19 is a deteriation after 7-10 days, the SARDS seems to be a late phenomenon in general.
Well I genuinely hope he is recovering well.
Wouldn't he be whisked into hospital at the first sign of danger?
Has Hancock given a figure for the number of ventilators we have and need, this morning?
I think he said we had twelve thousand, and didn’t need thirty thousand any more but didn’t say how many we were expected to need. It wasn’t easy to tell because he was getting so confused.
Think he said aiming for 18k.
That sounds good.
I see Broadcasters complaining the first part of todays daily briefing was not made available to them today.
You mean they missed it
There was no feed to any of them.
Like Rob said not deliberate but no they didnt accidentally all miss it.
One unpleasant thing this lockdown has brought out is the verve by which fellow Britons love policing the actions of others.
I find it rather distasteful.
I don't think the lockdown can continue for more than 3 or 4 months. Johnson probably understands that. Let's hope the Swedish experiment proves successful.
As the three month furlough ends, a lot of people will find they don't have jobs to come back to as either their employer has downsized or gone to the wall entirely. And they will not be able to pay their rent or mortgage the next month.
At the moment, we are in a state of collective denial about this. One of the government's top scientific advisers was in the Times only yesterday saying that ultimately, there is no alternative on the table to herd immunity.
A vaccine is unlikely to be ready for a year or more and we cannot afford to spend that long in lockdown without bankrupting ourselves and risking real social disorder.
A short lockdown to allow the NHS to increase capacity, followed by a year of social distancing measures, and gradual herd immunity is the least-worst way forward.
People will die. It will be ugly and it will scar our collective psyche for a generation. But there is no other choice.
Nobody wants to think about that right now, as the government pays them 80% of their wages to take a holiday. But when the money runs out, the music stops.
As someone in the Telegraph pointed out, it could be years before a vaccine is found.
there are - famous - viral diseases still without vaccines.
I don’t think herd immunity ever went away as a policy goal TBH
oh, I don't either: it remains one of the few options we have to get out of this
Who is this 'we'? Herd immunity is great for survivors, but not optimal for those who succumb. We need a vaccine!
As Boris is already on the herd immunity bus, he could well now ask the conductor to ring the bell! I hope not...
I think you're being both naïve and partisan here. Its an easy to ignore mix.
I wasn't trying to be partisan. Boris, practically speaking is personally out of the woods as far as Covid-19 is concerned.
That seems a little premature. The pattern of COVID19 is a deteriation after 7-10 days, the SARDS seems to be a late phenomenon in general.
Well I genuinely hope he is recovering well.
Wouldn't he be whisked into hospital at the first sign of danger?
Can you imagine the outcry given the questioning over the mere fact he and the health secretary had a test?
Hancock saying that even though he has had covid science has not yet decided if he is safe to disregard social distancing and until the science confirms he can ignore social distancing it will continue to apply
Interesting comment
A very sensible comment. Until we know otherwise beeter to be safe. It amazes me the number of self-appointed experts there are out there who could have saved the world from all of this if only we had listened to them......they'd have provided the right strategy in advance to this disease, have provided the best word perfect guidance and rules in advance...they'd have made no errors in advance if only we'd followed them earlier. Why on earth were we all so silly?
Has Hancock given a figure for the number of ventilators we have and need, this morning?
I think he said we had twelve thousand, and didn’t need thirty thousand any more but didn’t say how many we were expected to need. It wasn’t easy to tell because he was getting so confused.
Think he said aiming for 18k.
That sounds good.
I see Broadcasters complaining the first part of todays daily briefing was not made available to them today.
You mean they missed it
There was no feed to any of them.
Like Rob said not deliberate but no they didnt accidentally all miss it.
Has Hancock given a figure for the number of ventilators we have and need, this morning?
I think he said we had twelve thousand, and didn’t need thirty thousand any more but didn’t say how many we were expected to need. It wasn’t easy to tell because he was getting so confused.
Thanks ydoethur. 12,000 is almost double what we had in ICU wards a month ago and a good 4,000 up on the total including in Theatres. So that's good progress if we already have 12,000. What's Burgons IQ BTW? I see you mentioned him departing will lead to a significant increase.
Just interested to know, thanks in advance.
No idea. Pretty sure somebody who makes the same mistakes repeatedly and appears to be incapable of remembering basic facts or formulating simple sentences doesn’t have a high one. I genuinely am puzzled that he got into Cambridge.
The latter seems a better bet than getting it and potentially not surviving.
By my rough estimate herd immunity without vaccine costs 3,000,000 hospital admissions and 250,000 deaths.
Therefore if we assume no vaccine the challenge is how best to manage 3,000,000 hospital admissions and 250,000 deaths over the next 18 months.
But I could be missing something. Sure I am. Hope so anyway.
I think the hope is that by spreading the 3m hospital admissions over a longer period the health service never gets overwhelmed and the number of deaths is lower. I cant pretend to know the numbers tho.
Hancock saying that even though he has had covid science has not yet decided if he is safe to disregard social distancing and until the science confirms he can ignore social distancing it will continue to apply
Interesting comment
"It would be really embarrassing if I infected someone soon after coming out of isolation after only seven days, so I'm not going to take the chance."
Has Hancock given a figure for the number of ventilators we have and need, this morning?
I think he said we had twelve thousand, and didn’t need thirty thousand any more but didn’t say how many we were expected to need. It wasn’t easy to tell because he was getting so confused.
Thanks ydoethur. 12,000 is almost double what we had in ICU wards a month ago and a good 4,000 up on the total including in Theatres. So that's good progress if we already have 12,000. What's Burgons IQ BTW? I see you mentioned him departing will lead to a significant increase.
Just interested to know, thanks in advance.
No idea. Pretty sure somebody who makes the same mistakes repeatedly and appears to be incapable of remembering basic facts or formulating simple sentences doesn’t have a high one. I genuinely am puzzled that he got into Cambridge.
Mine is 144, if you’re particularly interested.
That is gross
The boasting or The Burgon?
144
I was trying to think of a pun on Bilbo Baggins there, but I couldn’t.
If it had been about the gardener, I would have managed in Sam wise.
Interesting lineup. Looking at Dodds and Reeves, I am reminded of the Republican commentator who sneered the Democrats had picked ‘a kangaroo ticket - stronger in the hindquarters [VP, Garner] than in the head.’
However, since the ‘head’ in question remains the only man ever to win more than two Presidential elections, it may be that Starmer is right and I am wrong. After all, he knows them both personally.
Has Hancock given a figure for the number of ventilators we have and need, this morning?
I think he said we had twelve thousand, and didn’t need thirty thousand any more but didn’t say how many we were expected to need. It wasn’t easy to tell because he was getting so confused.
Think he said aiming for 18k.
That sounds good.
I see Broadcasters complaining the first part of todays daily briefing was not made available to them today.
You mean they missed it
There was no feed to any of them.
Like Rob said not deliberate but no they didnt accidentally all miss it.
Dom's plan to cut out the broadcasters?
Wouldnt have thought so. It's on BBC now.
I see one of the first questions was about when will we have 18,000 ventilators as next week is expected to be peak NHS pressure.. Dont think a proper answer was given unless I missed it.
There's a shadow Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster? How does that work, do they only shadow the various things the Chancellor might do, which is varied, or is it just a way to get another Shadow Cabinet role without portfolio not necessarily shadowing the Chancellor?
Seems utterly bizarre to appoint Nandy (who has much to contribute to the domestic agenda) to a position where she is not going to be able to develop that important set of policies.
As for Dodds and Thomas-Symonds - there is nothing inspiring about either of them. They are better than the idiots they are replacing - but that isn't saying much.
Comments
I presume as you know everybody else's you dont have a problem sharing yours.
https://www.thelocal.se/20200405/flights-between-sweden-and-uk-to-be-suspended
FInally your comment about people having disrupted treatment for non-covid illnesses; that situation would be an order of magnitude worse if no action were taken slow the outbreak.
You can hardly get through 5 minutes without hearing that.
A dream ticket of RLB and Burgon would not have been given any credibility to do that. And for an educated man Burgon seems to be completely devoid of common-sense and self awareness.
These people look to the letter of the law to determine how they act and are incapable of making the self-evident, glaringly obvious interpretations of the law that people such as yourself are able to do.
Pity them, don't hate them.
12,000 is almost double what we had in ICU wards a month ago and a good 4,000 up on the total including in Theatres. So that's good progress if we already have 12,000.
What's Burgons IQ BTW?
I see you mentioned him departing will lead to a significant increase.
Just interested to know, thanks in advance.
I prefer ice cream.
Therefore if we assume no vaccine the challenge is how best to manage 3,000,000 hospital admissions and 250,000 deaths over the next 18 months.
But I could be missing something. Sure I am. Hope so anyway.
Interesting comment
I see Broadcasters complaining the first part of todays daily briefing was not made available to them today.
Mine is 144, if you’re particularly interested.
I hope the vaccine comes sooner than we all think it will.
Have we got people with the highest IQs on this?
I presume some PBers could identify them if not.
A bit brutal but has to be considered.
Not ideal though I presume we probably get it in full later.
But it’s worth remembering after 1885 the Liberals only won one election in their own strength (1906) - and that was when sometimes as many as three Unionists standing in one constituency for one vote.
Like Rob said not deliberate but no they didnt accidentally all miss it.
(Admittedly, that might stop me catching the virus, but at the cost of my dying from suffocation which would defeat the object.)
Sturgeon putting friendship ahead of country.
If it had been about the gardener, I would have managed in Sam wise.
Typically classy response. Hope we still get to see him from time to time.
However, since the ‘head’ in question remains the only man ever to win more than two Presidential elections, it may be that Starmer is right and I am wrong. After all, he knows them both personally.
https://twitter.com/robpowellnews/status/1246716040442253312?s=20
I see one of the first questions was about when will we have 18,000 ventilators as next week is expected to be peak NHS pressure..
Dont think a proper answer was given unless I missed it.
Newcastle then Birkbeck
PPE (Oxon)
PPE (Oxon)
https://twitter.com/MichaelPDeacon/status/1246492288118853635?s=20
https://twitter.com/MichaelPDeacon/status/1246807775138717696?s=20
What it doesn't say is whether he was into spanking or being spanked.
Minor quibble though.
Stay safe!
As for Dodds and Thomas-Symonds - there is nothing inspiring about either of them. They are better than the idiots they are replacing - but that isn't saying much.